Star.
London, England, 1822-06-14 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Upon the motion of ?dr. Curewvion, the Lords' Amendments
to the Vagrant Laws Amendment Bill were read and agreed to.
sir E. KNATCHBULL presented a Petition from the Hop-
rowers of Canterbury and the eastern parts of the county of
Riot, praying that no alteration may be made in the 54th of the
late King, for regulating the marking of hops.
A conversation ensued, in which Mr. Cumin withdrew his
notice upon the subject of the Laws for regulating the marking
of hops. He at the sante dm* intimated his Intention of
forward his Bill early in she nest Session.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented a similar Petition from
Western llivislon of the county of Neut. Both the Petitions
• ordered to be printed.
fIURTEIS then gave notice that he should bring in s:Bill
to and amend the said Act early in the next Session.
LETUBBLDOE wished to septimthe Sous that,

as Se had Oval Itip th' an aOinfffild dada Ire Sinner a-
mnion, he found ski should DM be VII to Whig foreword his
motion until about tin days hence, one as *way Honourable
Members would dim hevoleft towel, •he should withdraw it
eitostedser until the sent Session.
Mr. ABERCEOMBIE postreselli 10. With* relating to the
Ptess hi Scotland, frail the 19th to the Sikh inst.
The further consideration of the Report of the Stamp Duties
BIN was postponed to Monday nett.
The Irish Hearth and Windy* Yak Rapist Bill was com-
mitted, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow.
Mr. COURTS AY pve notice that on Monday he should
move for leave to bring in a Bill for annexing the puzishment
of bard labour to some offences which did not inter it under
the exiii:lng law.
Mr, Alderman WOOD rose to submit Ma motion relating to
Rchester Jail.
Mr. Secret szy PEEL felt that what he was about to do
might be Irregular, but he wished to appeal to the Honourable
Alderman not to waste the time of the House, because he was
sure that he could convince even him of the inexpediency of his
motion under existing circumstances. A Committee of the most
respectable individuals in the .country were now sitting to in-
quire into all the facts relating to the subject of the county jails
and their local *Radon& •
Mr. Menem/ and Mr. o.l3zorwrconcurred in this suggestion.
Mr. Alderman WOOD expressed his desire to comply with
the wishes of the House, and withdrew his motion.
Mr. BROUGHAM wished to ask the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Goulburn) whether he had made his Estimate
of the number of Officers to be employed under the new Act
in Ireland?
Mr. GOULBURN said it was impossible, from the nature of
the measure, to say how many Officers would be employed.
Mr. BROUGHAM was aware of that difficulty, but what
he wanted was the maximum of the number the Right Hai.
Gintleman contemplated as likely to be placed at the disposal
of Government.
Mr. PLUNKETT subtoitted that it was impossible to give
any estimate. since a great deal was matter of discretion. The
number mentioned might or might not be appointed. Therefore,
as it was impossible to give an estimate of discretionary power,
no estimate could be made up in the present case.

• IRISH TITHE
Mr. GOULBURN then rose to bring forward the
motion, of which he had formerly given notice, on
the subject of Irish Tithes. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man observed, he was not so presumptuous as to sup-
poit that on this subject he should be able to bring
forward a proposition equal to curs all the evils of
the existing system, or which would give satisfac-
tion to all. He only came forward to submit the
first fruits of the consiJeration of Government on
this subject; and in the commencement of what he
had to say, he must protest against all thosemild and
visionary schemes which
.he had seen given to the
Public, holding out that the property of the Church
might be taken without hesitation, and applied to
what some called the legitimate purposes of the State.
He understood also, thst the plan he had to propose
Was likely to meet with opposition from some Gen-
tlemen opposite, because it did not propose a general
commutation of tithes; but he must request to be
allowed to say, his object was directed to a dif-
ferent end. At the same time his plan would not
operate to prevent commutation, if such a plan
could, be effected, to which he, however, thought he
saw almost insurmountable obstacles. In consider-
ing this question, it was impossible not to see that
tithe was private property, the title to which was
most ancient, and most easy to be made out.—
He had no doubt he would be told that many indi-
viduals who held tithes but ill discharged the duties
pertaining to them, and therefore ought not to retain
them ; but if thii doctrine were once adopted, where
was it to stop ? It might extend to landed and to
all other private property, to which individuals of
indifferent characters had clear legal claim. This
was a doctrine he was convinced the House could
not intend to entertain for an instant, and he now
claimed to deal with tithes in the same manner as he
would with the same portion of private property of
any other description; and he was persuaded if his
plan was adopted it would do away all the rational
grounds of complaint against tithes. Many evils had
been imputed to the tithes in Ireland which did not
belong to them, but arose out of the tenure of land
in that country, and other circumstances with which
-tithes had nothing to do. One of the great evils was
the forbearance of the Clergy is collecting their dues,
which made them, when enforced, fall with increased
pressure, though the demand of the Clergy, taking
Ireland throughout, was much less than what they
were entitled to. Another evil was, that the Irish
Clergy received their tithes from the poorest order
of the people, and the Clergymen of Ireland were re-
duced to the necessity of abandoning their tithes alto-
gether, or exacting them from the most indigent class.
In the County of Kerry there was, in one parish, a
living of 4801. a-year, and the number of persons
paying the tithes was 1,980. That was a case casu-
ally taken, and similar instances were to be found all
over the country. In Ireland the lands were let by
competition, and the Irish peasant, from a wish to
occupy the place of his birth, often gave rents far
above his ability to pay. From a number of small
tithes the emoluments of the Clergy were derived;
and a Clergyman, with a large family, was reduced
to the alternative either of sacrificing his lawful emo-
luments, or of obtaining them by a suit at law. He
should propose, first, to enable the incumbent to enter
into leases for twenty-one years with the occupiers of
the soil ; and, in the second place* be should propose
to enable the incumbent to transfer that lease to the
owner of the soil. Those provisions would make the
payments of tithes more certain. The persons who
paid the tithes, and he who received them, would be
placed upon the same footing The lease would also
hold good for twenty-one years, notwithstanding the
death or the promotion of the incumbent. The leases,
at the same time, would be subject to the approba-
tion of the Ordinary. The agreement would be
made with the owner of the soil, 'who had the power
to indemnify himself for the advances he might•make.
In the different dioceses, where a composition had
been made with the occupies' of the land, the most
beneficial effects had followed. In some other parishes,
the more wealthy inhabitants had agreed to pay the
incumbent a certain stipulated sum, and took on
themselves the trouble of collecting the tithes. In
the districts where this practice had been adopted,
the greatest harmony prevailed between the clergy-
man and his parishioners. That practice was an anti-1
cipation of the law he intended to propose. It was
most improbable that any objections could be made
on the part of the clergy ; and he could not believe
that the gentlemen orkeland would oppose a plan
that would so materially contribute to the tranquil-
lity of the country. He had heard it urged, as an
objection to the measure, that it would materially in-
terfere with any future and more comprehensive
arrangement. But his opinion was, that so far from
impeding any such arrangement, it would materially
facilitate such a measure. The Hon. Gentleman con-

and in the next 7s. 6d. In consequence of en Exche-
quer process these two petty sums had swelled into
'ES. Es. 10d. simply by the addition of £2. 10s. under
the head of costs. This was no unusual case. In the
course of twenty years the tithe rent had trebled in
proportion to the rent of the land. He hoped the Bill
would not be pressed on the House, but that the Right
Hon. Gentleman would wait till the next Session.

Sir J. NEWPORT was convinced that the measure
would not answer the expectations of the, country.—
The Bishops had already the power of leasing tithes,
and no tithes were worse administered.
Mr. PLUNKETT hoped his Hon. Friend would
not oppose the introduction of the Bill. If the mea-
sure was a good one it ought to be adopted, and if so
inoperative as was described by the Right Honourable
Baronet, it could at least do no harm, and the field
would be left open for a more efficient plan. If a full
compensation will not made to the Clergy, it was an
aggression on the right of property. He believed the
Clergy received nearer 1-20th than I.loth as their
tithes. But the Clergyman would be entitled to a
compensation, not in proportion to what he actually
received, but to what he was entitled to receive. The
tithes had been no more a cause of disturbance
than the rent or the taxes. In the year 1820, the
counties where no tithes of potatoes had been exacted
had been the most disturbed. Some lands in Ireland
were tithe-free, and in these cases the additional tent
exceeded, by four times, the amount of the tithes. In
numerous cases the poor man much more willingly
paid the tithe to the Clergyman, than that the land-
lord should compound with the Clergy man and charge
it upon the rent.
Mr. S. RICE said, that after the speech of the At-
torney-General of Ireland there could be no hopes of
a commutation, and without a commutation there
could be no adequate remedy. The Bill would be
ineffective, and had been so found already in two
cases out of three. He agreed with Mr. Malthus,
that we should apply the tithe system to landlords
who had to receive improved rents.
Mr. D. BROWNE conceived a commutation of
tithes in Ireland was necessary for the peace and har-
mony of Ireland. In that country, the subject of
tithes was always a subject of grievance. Upon the
word of a man of honour, he believed that Ireland
could not be quieted until there was a commuta-
tion of tithes.

Mr. DAWSON denied that any charge of extor-
tion was well founded against the Clergy of Ireland,
for the right of tithes was given by law to the Cler-
gyman. If he exacted more than was his due, he
was punishable at common law. He deprecated the
use of tithe proctors, or any other popular agents; but
he denied that the Clergyman deserved opprobrium
op that account, because it was impossible for him
to be constantly co'lecting, or even wrangling about
the value of his tithes

Mr. O'GRADY was of opinion, that from the tithe
system arose all the evils and disturbances in Ireland.
He did not think that the present Bill would remedy
all evils; but, as it was the best measure he had yet
heard of, he should vote for it. _ _ _

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY wished the
House to consider that this was only a motion for
leave to bring in a Bill, and therefore he submitted
whether the House would now go into an extended
debate on the tithe system of Ireland ? The very
mode in which this question had been met was most
discouraging to Government to bring forward any
measures of relief, when they found Hon. Members
turn round upon them, and refuse their assent to that
which they had formerly advocated. He hoped,
however, that they would not consent to a total abo-
lition of tithes, as had been done in some of the coun-
tries of Europe, which had of late years been infected
with the bane of revolutionary principles. In' his
opinion this Bill would give a great boon to Ireland,
by destroying that Middleman who was the great
grievance of the tithe system of Ireland. He depre-
cated the conduct of Members in looking at this
measure as a matter at once so easily settled. If the
question of tithes were not met as one of private pro-
perty, he should tremble at touching it at all. He,
therefore, hoped that the whole system of commuta-
tion would be kept open for future discussion.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON was disposed to differ
with his friends, and to give Ministers leave to bring in this
Bill ; but, by doing so, he did not pledge himself to support the
Bill when it was brought In.
Mr. DALY would oppose the Bill in every stage.
Sir N. COLTHURST thought a commutation of tithes
necessary for the peace of Ireland.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill ; and the other Or-
ders being disposed of, the House adjourned.

/

?yotteldathWritbien was", t4youitt.dildmti:tereinebytnoeisc°m:initgal.cletoeirsiosT;iiptnt
); and having found, or pretended to herr foui4
, their', some writing. holograph of the aid Sir Alexander
all, yes did wickedly and maliciously chant nge the Raii
ilezwider Boswell to Ogist a duel with you ; and a tinie an,
,e of meeting having been concerted, you did, upon Tuesda,
e 11th day of Martha 1521, or upon One or other of the da;;
that month; of of February immediately pr
'Nliately following, upon the farm of Balbaitont in the
little to the northward of the road from the *Lie of
Auchtertoei to the burgh of Kirkcaldy, and about three quarters
of a mile or thereby slistant from the said village of Auchtenool,
in the said shire, wickedly and maliciously discharge at the s id
Sir Alexander Boswell a pistol loaded with ball, whereby the
said Sir Alexander Boswell was MOrtally wounded, the bdi
having entered near the root of the neck an the right side, .od
shattered the collar-bone, of which mortal wound the said sr
Alexander Boswell died in the course of the next day, and was.
this murdered by you the said James Stuart: and you the said
James Stuart, conscious of your guilt in the premises, did ati.
scond and Bee from justice: and a letter, bearing to be dated
Auchinleck, Nov. 7, 11121,' and to be subscribed ' Alexanrier
Boswell; as also &writing, entitled Whig Song,' and addressed
on the back, ' For Mr. Alexander, Sentinel-office, Glasgow
a letter or writing, bearing to be dated' Dumbarton, Decendsv?
17,1821; subscribed Isom.'' and a writing entitled
Perry, Req. late proprietor and editor of the Meriting Chttnitici
and addressed on the back, ' Mr. Alexander, Sentintl-011i..e
Glasgow,' being all to be used in evidence against you at you;
trial, will be lodged in due time in the hands of the Clerk ul
High Court of Justiciary, before which you are to he tried, sll:.c
you may have an opportunity of seeing the same: at least, time
and place above libelled, the said Sir Alex. Boswell was imr-
dered; and you, the said James Stuart, are guilty thereof, am:,
or art and part. All which, or part thereof, being found prowl
by the verdict of an assize, before the Lord Justice-General,ilo
Lord Justice Clerk, and Lordi Commissioners of Justiciary,
you, the said James Stuart, ought to be punished with the psi
of law, to deter others from committing the like crime in .11
time coming. (Signed) " DUN. 111'N EILL, A. D.-
The reading of the indictment having been con-
cluded, and the LORD it/STICK CLERK having de-
manded of the accused his plea to this charge,
Mr. Stuart answered, in an audible voice, " My
Lord, I am not guilty."
Mr. COCKBURN, on the part of the defender, said,
that he did not intend to propound any objections to
the relevancy of the indictment. It was certaialy
worded in a peculiar form, and contained much n.al-
ter that he thought might have been spared, if 1;o:
out of respect for the private feelings of the accused,
yet out of consideration for the memory of the de-
ceased, without any detriment to the end, of pcb!ic
justice. But although it was not his intention to ob-
ject to the relevancy of the indictment, he should,
notwithstanding, availhimself of his undoubted right,
in this stage of the proceedings, to make that s:ate-
ment which was necessary to open to the Court the
line of defence which his client had marked out. He
availed himself the more readily of this privilege
(and he stated it in the hearing of those Gentlemen
who were liable to be appointed cn the Jury, as eeil
as in the hearing:of the Court), because he considered
that what he was about to say was material to the
vindication of the character of the accused, and be-
cause, in the event ,of the case for the prosecution
breaking down, this would be the only opportunity
he should have i.f making any statement before this
Court. Mr. Cockburn then quoted those parts ni
the indictment which attributed to the accused a de-
sign to provoke the lamented deceased, and other s t,f
the lieges, to fight a duel or duels, and also of travel-
ling into the west country for the purpose of seekin.;
materials for a quarrel,and of liberating Mr.Borth wit k
from prison, in order that he might aid in that purpose.
All these allegations he should meet with an unqua-
lified denial ; and he could confidently assert, that
this would be a prouder and a happier day than a:ry
which the accused had spent since the occurrence of
the late unfortunate event—now that he was per-
mitted boldly to face his accusers, and demand ail
investigation into his character. For his own part,
if he could speak the feelings of the accused, if he
(Mr. Cockburn) were allowed, by his sense of pro-
fessional duty, to speak his own feelings, he should
have no hesitation in admitting that the late Sir
Alexander Boswell met his death at the hands of tae
accused: but his legal duty did not /permit him to
make that admission ; and he could with sincerity
and truth declare, that of the extraordinary charges
libelled in the indictment, his client was not guilty.
He must also, in justice to the feelings of his client,
declare, that for the melancholy termination of the
life of the deceased, no person on earth was more un-
feignedly sorry than was the accused. But he owed
something more to the feelings of his client, and i:,
in performing that duty, he should mention anything
derogatory to the memory of the deceased, or lith t-
rill to the feelings of his surviving friends,he regretted
the necessity for doing so, but it was a necessity im-
posed upon him by the conduct of the gentleman or
gentlemen who drew up the present indictment. The
Learned Gentleman proceeded to state, that all %situ)
knew the late Sir Alexander Boswell must be aw.ne
that lie possessed in a very extraordinary degree a gi:t
which, when unassociated with the most amiable
dispositions of the heart, was a very dangerous gift
indeed—he alluded to his powerful talent for irony.
Dlr. Cockburn here detailed all the facts relative to
the establishment of the late Beacon and the present
Sentinel, the contributions of the deceased to those
publications, and the manner in which Mr. Stuart
obtained the fatal evidence of the deceased's corres-
pondence with those-publications. For a plain state-
ment, this of Mr. Cockburn's was the most eloquent
and impressive that was ever heard. It was a full
and complete denial of all the charges in the indict-
ment.3—Adverting to the character of the accused,
Mr. Cockburn said, that althoup he was rather un-
ceremoniously styled in the indictment " James
Stuart," it was probably known to the person who
drew up that instrument, that Mr. Stuart was re-
lated to some of the most noble, most-illustrious, and
most ancient families in this land. Looking to that
which was of more importance than birth—his c0.,-
duct as a member of civil society—there were few
public companies in the country with which he WAS
connected that had not voted him their thanks; and
he believed there was no person or public body, for
whom, or in concert with whom, Mr. Stuart had
transacted any business, who would not bear tesr-
rnony to the zeal and alacrity with which that busi-
ness had been conducted on the part of Mr. Stualr.
The urbanity, the peace-making disposition of Mr.
Stuart, was known to every person who knew Mr.
Stuart. The Learned Gentleman justified his client
in the recent dispute with Mr. Stevenson, on which
occasion the desire of peace had been manifested
an especial, and, indeed,. in an indulgent manner, by
the accused. The Learned Gentleman went on to
stew, that the deceased had received no provocation
from Mr. Stuart to justify that daring, talse, and
• capricious calumny in which he had 'advised again"

the West
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',• • .
•
"chase!, Vy !Irvin for leave to btoolit, !II odd wide
ecclesiagcd,
eceless*ed and other persons an 'lreland, to grate go*, yi4l thin
leases of tithes, so as to bind their successors, said wridip; and ha'
moot them, some wr
Sir H. PARNELL thought a much iore tonspte- norweu, yea did wic
hensive measure was required than the presarat. He Alexander Boswell
believed the Irish Clergy acted with greatliberality place of meeting havin
in exacting their tithes, though it was impossible for
otighlrmadaY 41.4ottarpt
Immediately folloielog
them not to employ intermediate agents. He knew a
case in .which the tithe had been in one year I Is. 3d. of Fife, a little to the