Star.
London, England, 1807-02-05 00:00:00

AFTER THE SALE OF THE ABOVE, WILL BE SOLD,

UNI.)RY Spars, Yards, ;ld Lower Malts, Cables
Meffcngcrs, and other Rope, Old Iron, Copper, Lead, Rte.
Iron Ballsft, Anchors, and ocher valuable Ship Stores, remaining
unfold, from the French frigates PR/SWINT, MINARVA, and
Att mZlDt—the former condemned as Prize to a fquadron of His
Majelly's fhips under the command of Sir THUMAS LEWIS.
For particulars apply to Merin. John Hawker or James Slade,
Merchants, Plymouth.
The two latter condemned to a fquadron of Blips under the
command of Sir SAMUEL HOOO.--For particulars apply to
Mr. JOHN 1-I.lWegsK, Mcrcktauto Plystuuth.
Plymouthdanuary al, 1837.

SLAYS TRADP.
Conniel having been called in, purfuant to order,
Mr. Pl.mer and Mr. Dallas attended, on behalf of
the Well India Merchants ; Mr. Alexander, for the
Merchants of Liverpool ; Mr. Scarlet, for the Islet.
chants and Planters of the Inands of Jamaica and
Trinidad ; and Mr. Clarke nn the part of the Cur.
potation of Liverpool, and the Trutices of the Dock
of that Port.
The arrangement with refpefl to the order in
which the Learned Counfel for the feveral interests
should be heard, having been referred to their own
decifion ; Mr. Alexander, for the Merchants of Li-
verpool, fill addreffed their Lordfhips, and ••on
chided with requefting that, according to the prayer
of the Petitioners for whom he appeared, witneffes
might he called in.
The Counfel having been orde,ed to withdraw,
Lord GRENVILLE Paid, that for the purpofe he
then had iu view, it would not be at all necefrary to
enter into the general queftinn ; the fimple enquiry
was, whether, in the prefent lunation of thine', it
was or was not expedient to hear the depolitinns
of the witneffes, acurcling to the recommenda
ti-n of the Learned Counfel ? In his opinion,
there could be nn groom! for this mode of proceed-
ing, unlefs their Lo• (fillips thought that this was a
fubjeft utterly unknown to them ; and that in conic.
quence of the ckficiency of ali former experience and
information, it was receffary to go into a long and
formal examination of the matter. This was not the
firll time, or the fill year, that the enquiry was made
before their Lordfhips: it was the 20th year in which
it had been brought under their confideratinn ; and
there was no one Seffion during that long period in
which it had not been, in fume form or other, fub-
mitred to the inveßii,ration of Parliament. Could any
individual Peer fuppofe, that to enable him to decide
on the principle of this Bill, it was expedient to ex-
amine how far the local interens of tbe Ship Owners
of Liverpool were concerned, and what were their
comparative profits in the lot:trilling intercourfe be-
tween Africa and the Welt Indies ? This Bill was
not offered to their Lordfhips, becanfe the capital of
no Britifh fibjefts was employed in the Slave Trade,
or becaufe no Britilh mariners were engaged in it; bit
ex prefsl y becaufe the property and per fans of the fob
jeftsof this realm were engaged in it: and hence it called
upon the juflice and humanity of their Lordfhips to
prevent this mifapplicat:on both of the one and the
other. Their Lordfhips were not now to determine,
if a few more or few lets (hips were devoted to this
commerce, but to wipe away the difgrace of this
cnuntry, by the direftion thus given to the 'flaunty
and talents of Britifh Merchants. The Learned
Cuunkl, by [hewing that the capital of this defcrip-
tinn of perfons was largely concerned, in part kip.
plied the motive on which the propofal for the abo-
lition was founded. Thus, without any confirmation
from the witneffes propored, all the rafts that were
material were admitted. It night he eafy to fhew,
that particular items to which the Learned Counfel
adverted, did not operate in aid of his argument :
thus, the premiums paid to infurers were not to be
deemed all profit ; they were a confideration for cer-
tain rifk, and were in proportion to the hazard to
which the property would be expofed. The princi-
pal motive, then, of the Bill was, that Britifh capital
wag engaged in the trade ; and an additional inftiga-
tion to the adoption of it was, that iu the prefent
pollute of affairs, it could he fupported by nn other
capital ; fo that by withdrawing the fubje!ts of this
country from the commerce, it would be effcelually
abolifhed.
Lord ELDON was willing to admit, that, in the
initance now before their Lordships, the examination
of witneffes would not be necetTary ; but he was anx-
ious to enter his proteft agaioll any determination
not to hear evidence in a future Rage of the proceed-,
ing. It was true that this grave and important tub-
j.,a had been lung under dilcultion ; but, it was not
merely expedient to thew that this trade was contra•
ry to juliice and humanity. Admitting it to be in,
the cucumllances, the mode, and the time of its
abolition, were proper matters of cnnfideration.—
What had been the courfe of proceeding ? A Noble
Lord, in the lift Sefton, had brought forward Rein-
lutions, which embraced a van deal more than was
compiled in the prefent Bill : thofe extended to the
total abolition of the Slave Trade. He did not be-
lieve that the meafure now propofed would di•
minifh the tranfpnrt of negroes ; a Engle individual
would not be preferred by it : at the fame time that
it would be utterly deb-naive of the Britifh interelts
involved in that commerce. his Houle was always
difpufed to proceed with deliberation and with juf-
tice ; and in purfuance of that line of condo& it
had determined not to hear the evidence on this af.
fair in a Committee shove (lairs. He trotted that !
the fame difcretion would he now employed ; and
that, if any important fads were to be afcertained,
the witneffes would be heard at their Lordihips' Bar.
Was it right that, becaufe there WAS a change of I
men, and of public meafures in confequence, that
the interests of thefe Petitionrrs should be difregarded
—and what was before determined to be fit matter
of enquiry, fhould now be rejefted, as immaterial
and inapplicable ? If thefe interests had any exitt-
ence, redrefs ought to be given, compenfations
ought to be affigned ; and the extent of thefe could
only be afcertained by teftimony. He would repeat,
that he did not contend that evidence thould now be
heard ; but he thought it extremely probable that,
on further progrefs, it would be difcovered that wit-
neffes ought to be examined.
Earl GROSVENOR. was very anxious to do juf-
tice to all parties, but thought that to hear evidence
in this Rage of the enquiry would be ufelefsi and
would be a departure from the propriety of their

that 01;4 were to be precluded from hearing teitimo-
ny as to matters, however llrongly urged by Connie!,
and however important to the decifion of the merits of
the prefent Bill. Were the refolutions paffed during
the laft Seffion to be conlideted in a more ferious
light than a Bill which had gone through the progref-
five Reps, until it was finally trariftnitted to the Corn.
mons ? Such a Bill might be rejected, and could, in
Inch cafe, be cited as no authority by which the opi-
nion of their Lordfhips should be governed. It was
obvious that fuch refutations were not to prevent the
exercife of their deliberative functions, and thus much
he thought it neceffary to fay, that there funaions
might remain entire and unimpaired.
Lord HOLLAND perfealy agreed with his Noble
Friend (Lord Grofvenor), and thought that the
commentary of the Noble Lard who had juft fat
down, originated in a mifapprehenfion of the terms
employed. The Noble Earl did not fay that the pre-
vious .opinion declap-d, however folemnly, should
preclude all examination of any future meafure con-
fleeted with the fame fubjeft ; but he laid, that when
fuch a determination was made, that the trade was
contrary to ;he broad principlesof plaice and hum-
: nity, it would not become the dignity of the Hoare
to enter into minute enquiries into the precife profits
of which the adventurers would be deprived. This
was the fentiment expreffed by the Noble Lord, and
! supported by the general tenor of his fpeech ; and, on
his ( Lord Holland'.) mind, they were neither fub-
verfive of the conflitutional privileges of their Lord-
(hips, nor dent Olive of their deliberative funs ions in
any particular. Feeling no fuch danger to any great
interells of their Lordfhips from the obfer•ations of
the Noble Earl, he merely role to corre.ft this milcon.
ception, and to declare that it was by no means the
intention of thole with whom he had the honour to
aft, to take any unfair advantage of fuch Noble Lords
as did not concur in the Lime opinions ; he hoped.
however, it would be recollefted that the Houle had
already announced its decifion on the general que Ilion,
, and would aa continently with it.
The Duke of CLARENCE concurred with fome
of his Noble Friends near him, that it was not now
reqnifite to call any witneffes. He should purpofely
abltain from entering into the general queftion,
which, however, be felt to be of the greatell impor-
taoce : he would, however, fay in anfwer to fome re-
marks that had fallen from Noble Lords on the other
fide, that too much firth might be laid on previous
determinations: their Lordthips were fallible almond
could not fafely affurne the rectitude of their former
opinions in all cafes. The prefent qtteftion was Lim-
ply whether they ought to grant or to reje.'t ti.e
prayer of the Petition on the table ? He was not at this
time difpofed to concede fo far to it as to admit the
witneffes propofed, tot it was not improbable that,
as to other parts of the general quellion, he should
take the fenfe of the Houle on the fitnefs of heating
witneffes in confirmation of the matters fubmitted by
the Learned Couplet to the confederation of their
Lordthips.
The motion being put and agreed to that the Counill for the
other Petitioners be called in,
Mr. Clarke, Mr. Plomer, and Mr. Scarlet, were heard. After
which,

Lord EI.DON moved, that the CorrefpotArnce between his
Majeity's Secretaries of State and the Governor of Trinidad, re-
fpcdting the granting of lands in that Bland, finec the year 1799,
Mould be laid before the Houle.
Lord GRENVILLE, without meaning to objcdt to the produce
tion of the documents required by the Noble Lord, trotted that
no unneerekry delay would Le occafioued, in as to prevent the dif-
euffi .n of the queftion before the to-morrow. His I.ord-
Caip, however, wifhed to fate one fadt which had lately come to
his knowledge, which was, that, contrary to the uftia! pralicc,
ihis Majefty, in his inftretions to the Governor of riinviad had
I omitted to empower that,Publie Officer to grant any 'red, to Flan-

Ms who might fettle with their eaves on the Maud. The reafon
was obvious, and it was, that the plantations there might loot be
cultivated by toegroes, but that other methods of allege fliarld he
tried. This esrlotion likewile offered an opportunity to there
who were motife to the employnos oi elves, to eflablifh them-
felves in I ri:•idad After the place r unterous qusftions were
agitated in Parfam•ut, and addrelLs foamed to his Majtiti.,!
that diredtions fh oould he g'ven troat no imported negroes Ihoull be
employed in that Mao d ; and the affair was concluded by an ofh
vial ailuraree, tit:3 it then was the defign of Goverment nt t to
authority the grant of lands. excepting on condi:ion that they
&could not lie cultivated by blacks It ex a, plain that lob IViajelly 'a
Alinifterto at that tint. intended to diresuragc the African trade
Ile Duke of CLARI-NrjE underllood, that notwithßanding
there injuno.tims a great number of Chinefe had been conveyed
into the iflatosl of Trinidad. Ity what authority this bad been dune
his Royal Highnefs was tto• aware.
Lord GRENVILLE believed the fate to be, that confiderahle
importations had been male, hut his Lordfhip did not know if
that had been done under the fandlion of Government.
The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE obferve.l. that the im-
portations mentioned took place under bis dirtdtion. dories the
period his Lordfhip was in 'office.
Lord GRENVILLE moved. that the Order of the Day for the
1. eon d reading of the Bill be dircharged, aol that it thouiti he read
a fecund time to morrow, as his Lordfilip particularly witheti that
voe debate mould come on, and that the fettle of the Houk fauuld
be taken.
The Duke of CLAR ENCE did not rife to oppofe the motion of
the Noble Lord, but lie nulled that ty to morrow his 'Arad!)
would be in a fituation to give the Houk fume hitcher inforeta i. n
relpedling the importation of Chinefc into the ifland of Ttiridad;
indeed, every (genies tot IPatormation cn fo important a pointihoutd
be laid on the table. _ _ -

The utotion for the Peon(' reading of the Bill to-morrow, was
thou put and carried —Adjourned at rine o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMON'S.
THETFoRn FLkcTIoN.
• Mr FANE retorted fc.rrn the Committee appointed to try tbe
]Merits of the Thetford Peti.i-n. that Fines Ming4y,l4l4. wart
rot duly returned ; aid that Goma. 0-Levey, Efq. ought to have
bunt returned for the laid borough.
The Deputy Clerk of the Crown was accordingly ordered to
attend to-morrow, and amend the Rtturn,hy erafing the name FE'
James Mingay,Efq. and inferring that of Thomas Creevey, Efq.
MALDEN PETITION.
Sir GILBERT FIE XI lICOTE reported from the Committee
appointed to try the Mateyo Petition, that Benjamin Galled!, EN.
was not drily thdled for that Borough; and that Charle.Weftern,
Efq. ought to have been returned.
The Deputy Clerk on the Crown was ordered to attend to-mor-
row, for tire purpofe of amending the return accordingly.
PENKYIIIt ELECTinN,
Mr. ATKINS WRIGHT reported from the Comni:ttee ap-
p.:ir red to tty the merit. of thi. Petition, :ft. That Henry Swan,
Efq. was duly deffied ; 2dly, That Sir Chriftopher Hawkins, Hart
was not duly tidied, and that John Trevanion, Efq. ought to
b:)ve been returned; and, idly, That Sir Cbriftopher
had, by pollen: and his agents, beer; ;uilty of bribety and :or-
ruption to fc:ure his eledtion.
The Deputy Clerk of the Crowatiwas ordered to attend, for the
purpofe of amending the Return tottnorrow ; and the (unlit r con-
Oderation of the Report was poftponed till Monday frierviet. '1 he
Report was ordered to he printed for the ufe of the Members.
The LORD ADVOCATh of SCOTLAND prftponed hi,
Medoo refpcdtirg the Clergy of Scotland till Tuefday next.
IRISH ELECTIONS.
Mr. PARNELL moved the pollponement of the this, for the
confideration of the County of Mayo Petition, which hood fird
for the a4th. He moved it principally on the ground of the gr eat
diftance of that County, which made it difficult to bring the Wit
neffes in time. lie ecnildt red the (hellion of the Houle upon the
Petitions of Aberdeen Dublin, and.Downpatrick, were fufficient
precedent's in frpport of kis Motion.
Mr. LORRY argued on the other f.de, that there was no eec;
.lion for p ,ftponement, as both parties bad agreed that the wit-
acres ihould be examined in Ireland In this cafe, the PL
bad only about one thoufand votes, white the fitting-members had
four thoufand.
The gallery was cleared for a divition. but we underftand that
the Monte did not divide, but opted to the pottpunement.
The gallery etas again dca:cd for a divifion, upon the queftion,
whether tbe order appointing an early day fur the confidcratinn
of the Downoatrick Medlin) fuould be difcharged. 1:i this cafe alto
the Houle did not divide, but agreed to the difebarge of the order.
Upon tt,e gallery hi log again opened,
Mr. RO .E was prefacing, in a thort fpeeeh, the followirg
Refolutions
aft. That there be laid before the Houle an Account of
the Tonnage of Brit iha Velfels trading with China, from the 1 ear
1773 to the prt fent time.
2. The Value •rf Broil) Manufactures exported to China during
the fame time, dirt inguifhing each year, and alto diftinguithing the
official value from the real value.
3. The quantity of Tobacco imported into this country from
the year a bon to the prefent time, diftinguiftting each year.
4. The quantity of 'lra imported into this country from the
year-1774 to the year 1783, and nom the year ILL to the prefent
line.
'the sth and sth R r folutions were for an account of the quantity
of Rum and Brandy ire ported during the laid period:
Thefe feveral Refolutions were unanirnoufly agreed.to. .
The SECRETARY at WAR moved, that a Return fhould
• t•e made of the Numhtr of Men reported in the Monthly F egi
mental Rvunis, as having entered front :handed to unlinuttd ler--
vice in the courfe of the your aboo Ordered.
THE LATE °aura OF COUNCIL.
Mr. PERCEVA I. role, purfuant to notice, to
move for the projitelion of the Order in Council,
dated the 7th of January. Having given a (',!night's
notice of tiliA motion, which appeared to him of the
greatell importance, he thought, that, although the
titteflion appeared to hint ut great magnitud:, yct
that many Gentlemen would almoll think that Le
owed an apoiogy ;o the antic for introducing with
Inch ferioutheis and foleirinity a moticn of that na-
ture, which tiled formerly to he confidered as almott
a motion rf courfe. When it fir uld be clearly un-
derflood tha; the ohjeect of his motion was nothing
more thatito have laid upon the table of that firule
a paper which had been laid on the tables of every
c flee houfe.in the kingdom for more than a month,
and which had been already teen by every perton
who reads newfpap-rs, it might appear at firft fight
furprifirg that he thould attach to much importance
to the prelim motion: and when it was confidered that
it was not milpublithed generally in the newfpapers,
but alfu for greater authenticity to the publication,
inferted in the London Gazette, it would teem as
furptiting that he fhauld confider it of great impor-
tance to have it lain upon the table, as that the No-
Lord on tl e ether fide of the Houle and his
friends, ihouid think it DeCtinity to re fill the produc-
tion. It was thci elm e nectffary for him, in his own
jollification, to (late what wete the grounds which
'made his prefent mo!i In appear to him of the moll
ferious importance. N,i'Leti he came down to the
Houle about a lortnn,ht ago, to give notice of the
motion for an early day, tie Noble Lord at the other
tide of the Honk (Lord Howick) accotted him kind-
ly and handlomely, and told him that it was a mo-
tion velikh he felt it his dory, as a Merubtr of PZI:;:t.
ment, to refill. He could net at fl -fl imagine what
were the grounds of the oppolitimi lie was to meet
with from the Noble Lord—lie fuppoled that it was
merely trom the notoriety of the fat which would.
make the document appear lets neceffary. In anfwer
to that ()Nation. he t.tld his Lordlhip that he con-
ceived, that as this was a meature of Government, it
was therefore the moll regular, authentic, and Par-
liamentary courfe, to have the document fult laid
upon the table, in outer to ground the motion which
fhould afterwards bring forward ; but the Noble
Lord gave him to underltarid, that his ground of op-

p 'Won would be very different, ithi merely this, that
As he could not anticipate.any motion which couldbe
groundea on that paper, to which he could give his
fopport, therefore he felt it contrary to I i. duty as a.
Memacr of Pettier:lent, to give that appearance of
countenance to the trite, inn motion of which he mull
difapprore. It was bectule the Noble Ltd had taken
this ground of refiliing the prodisainn of the paper
that he thought his moti m became of the moll le.
I rietit importance. When he was fore of being op-
! poftd by the whole weight of the talents of the Noble
Lord, as well as by /its influence, anti by that pro-
; per authority which he bore in 'that Houle, he
thought it neceffery to give a long notice, cyder
that the fubjeft thould meet the molt grave and ferious
(NI-coition. As to the motion, there was no initance
in the proceedings of Parliament of a fimilar motion
being refitted on loch wounds. When the Noble
Lord and his friends wet e at that fide of the Houle
(the Oppelition Benchet) their motions for Papers
had never been refilled on fuch pretences, and now
that they had crolfed the Houk, and were become.
Minillers, it teemed that they had adopted a doarine
very different from their former prattice, and now
contend, that no papers fhould be granted,. unlets
his Ma jelly's Minillets were pl.afed with the reafons
for wtoch chef.: P.oters were moved (loud cries of bear,
Ave ! fi-o.te the Omfitiots Benches.) He could not,
however, bring hiantelf to believe, that the Houfe
would admit thofe new principles, or fandion fuch a
doettine. He really had expeatd, that the Noble
Lord would have anticipated his motion this day, by
withdrawing his oppt I ion. The principal ground on
which the produaion of Papers hitherto had been re-
filled in that Houfe was, that it might occation fume
dile-10111:e which would be injurious to the public ter-
vice; but there vr.ts no prefer ce for fuch an objetaion in
the prefent inairoce, for the queflion was not, whether
any document !hoold be made public or nor, but
oatether a document, which had already been pub.
tithed in the molt authentic manner, not only to this
kingdom, but to all Europe, thould be denied to the
Houle of Commons ? Whether the Reprefeptatives
of the Nation were to be the only perfons to whom
this document thould not be made known in the
regular and proper way ? lie trolled the Houfe
would feel, that an oppofition to the produaion of
the Paper, on no other grounds but what had been
Hated, wtiali be unprecedented and unprincipled ;
and that if the Houfe lhould be perluaded to
refute Lis Motion, they wr uld be abandoning
almolt every ptinciple upon which the conduct of
I ',is tvlajefty's Minifters could ever be brought into
difieuffion is that H rule. The ordinaty grounds for
oppofing the produaion of papers moved for, could
not on the prefent occalion be (fated. It could not
be f..id, that any inconveniencies could arife to the
Public from its produaion ; nor that it was moved
ter merely to fatily an idle curiolity : the Paper was
of loch notoriety, that there was no curiofity to be
gratified by 4ceding to the Motion ; and it was dc-
mended only for toe purpofe of laying a reguler
Parliamentary ground for the confederation of tl:c
meafure itfa, which his Majelly had been advifed to !
adopt. If a meafure, put porting to be a meafure of I
wifdom and efficiency, was fuppofed by many Islem•
bens of that Houle to be unwire and inefficient, what
other means was there of confidering of the conduet
of his Ma jelly's Mini.iets in that retpeft, if they re-
futed to produce thole Papers upon which alone the
difenßion could regularly be grounded ? Did it fol-
low that, if the Paper was produced, the Houfe mutt
difapprove of the condua of his Majelly's
in recommending fuch a meafure ? It was, however,
admitted by the Noble Lord and his Friends, that the
tiffeullion of the wifdom and efficiency of that meafure
could not regularly take piece without the procludion
of that Paper, and yet they refute to produce it:
They argued in a circle : they LAW, " for want of
this Paper there can be no foundation far a regular
difetiffion upon it, and we will not give you this Paper,
for tear you fhould have a foundation for the dilcut
:ion." The whole conchtlion which was to be drawn
from this kind of argument was, that Mini tiers wifhed
as much as poffible to prevent the Houk from exa-
mining and dill-offing their condo& upon a very
hope tent meafure, affeaing equally the commercial
inteleits and the honour of the country. It was not
aliedged that there was any probable or poffible in-
! convenience from the produaion of the Paper; and
it was only to be kept beck, in order that the Houle
I might be prevented from exercifing their conflitutio-
; nel right of cagniting into the condo& of his Ma-
jetty's s. It teemed, that the Noble Lord and
his fiend: were fo perfectly correct and firm in their
proceedings and in their countels, that the time of the
Houle mutt not he employed in examining their con-
doe. If the meafure which they recommended was
a wife and eflici:Gt meafute, it would bear dilcuffion
and fitting ; but if it was an unwife and inefficient
meafine, then the ditcuffion might be produative of
good effete, as the wifdom of Pediment would be
able to fupply w hat was defedive, and cornea what-
ever was wrung. The Noble Lord had, however, on-
ly aligned, as is ground of oppofing the production
of the paper, that it would appear like countenan-
eit.g the &tether motion which was to be grounded
open it. There was, however, no neceffity for the
Noble Lord refuting the paper itfelf on this account :
h would have learn tufficient for him to have rifen in
his place, and exprefsly Rated, that in nqt oppofing
the produftion of the paper, he did not by any
means pledge himfelf to tupport the motion that was
to he groucdcd upon io his would have complete.
ly ant Wei ed the purpofe of not appearing to give any
countenance to the mat' he had intended after-
' wards to bring forward. It was hard to conceive
any rational general ground upon which the Noble
Lord could refill his prefent motion. On other
grounds, perhaps, it might be wife and prudent for
the Noble Lord to afcerrain to what extent his powers
of perfuafion could prevail in that Houle : it might
be wile for him to alto tarn to what a degree he
could command the faith and the confeieoces of his
friends. It might be an Meted toihew to his friends
who followed him from theaother fide of the Houle,
the great extent of his influence and authority, the
volatility of his talents, and his complete. departure
, from that coolie. wt ich he and his friends had thought
proper to purfue when they were in oppofition.—
(e.ord cries of bear, bear !) The Noble Lord had
only now to call upon them to retread all their for-
mer fleps, abandon all their former principlea, and
be content with (imply following the fame flandard
they had been ufed to follow, and voting ~with the.
fame men, LiUWCTIN their meal-tires or their coo-

du& might change norm getting into Adminiftra.
Lion. (cric of liar ! tear, from the Optofition Bench. )
He however did not fear much permanent mifchief
from the abufe of the -authority Of Government.—
He was convinced that it was not in that Houfe
that the ahtik of authority would tend to confirm it
or increefe its duration, and that the Members of
that Houk vionld not tafily be led to fanetion any
filch abufe of authority. If the Minifters coull but
ellablilh this new principle as a precedent, shat
would become of the contiitutional power of the re-
prefentatives of the people, in watching over the con-
du& of hie Majefly's Miuiders ? If it L once elta-
bliffiel that papers fheuld be refilled, merely hecaufe
Minifters do not choofe to give filch information as
might bring the', conduit under Parliamentary did
coition, they might in future refute all information
refpeaing treatiee; negociations, or any other of
thole matters, in which the interefts of the country
are the moll mate:idly' affected. He did not mean
to taunt:the Noble Lord with having himlelt ['relight
forward limiter mot;ons for ce•tainly the Noble
Lord and his friends could not he taunted with hav-
ing brought forward any thing ptecifely limiter,
neither fhould he now teem- to the principles or
condo& of the Noble Lord and his friends when they
were in oppofition, but merely to their conflant pro-
feffions fiece their acceflion to rower. They had
always profeffed that, their conduit was loch as would
bear the &WWI examination, and that they wiffied
that every part of it fhould be firiely examined; and
yet, when a motion was brought forward to examine
their conduct io a particular inflanceo they, in a
manner moft unprecedented, refilled the paper which
was the cnly regular foundation upon which fuch an
examination could he originated. He fhould a& the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether this conduit
was like that of the Roman Phil)fopher, who wifhed
that his houfe was made of glair, that every body '
might witaefs all his actions. The piefent Isliniflers
might indeed, now and then let themfelves be looked
at in their glafs houfe, hut then it muff be at a dif-
tance, and they would not let any body come too
near them (a lough). Having fufficiently fhewn the
Houk that his mutien did not originate from any
idle curinfity, he &dd next call their attention to
the Order itfelf. The Order Lean by (lazing,
that whereas the French Government had ilfued
orders, in violation of the ufage of war, to prohibit
the commerce of neutral nations with his Majefly'r
dominions, fuch attempti on the part of the enemy
gave to his Majef,y an toootredionable ri;lo. of reta•
liation ; but that, however unwilling to iollow their
example in this iii;Lsnce, yet he felt it incumbent upon
him to take fume Reps to renrhin this violence, ancl
to retort upon them the evils el. their own initt.i
Such were the motives Rated in the Order ,;f Coun.
cil lOr the meafures that were adopted, As fhr the
right of retaliation which was then offered; he
thought notW7 could he more clear or indlfrutable..
It would he t' rnaddell t!Arg upon earth to lappoli
that we tette tied and hotrod by the laws of ration;
to any certain conduct with an enemy '.o utterir
difowned and renounced thole lows with refract
us, or to fopoofe chat we were not at lil.etty to tera-
hate thtle injuries which we had received from thcrr. '
The French decree gave rife to thi. Order be-
gan with Rating- " that whereas Ergland had ceded
to refpee the eltabli:lied law of nations, and lwd ex-
tended the right of conquell to the property of indi-
siduals taken at fea, with a view to aggrandize the
commerce of England at the expence of that of the
other European nations, and that therefore, from
the natural tight of retaliation, France was obliged
to adopt a fitnilar conduit ; and therefore until Eng-
land confented to acknowledge the fame rule at lea
as at land, fo long the provifions of that decree
Ihould remain among the fixed and fundamental
laws of the French empire " The °Ned of France
was to force this country to give up a maritime tight
which had been fanetioned by the eftablifhed law of
nations. It therefore could nor be made a matter of
argument in that Houfe, whether the country did or
did not peers the right of retaliatioa—the only qnef-
tion was about the policy and expediency of the
manner in which Minifters had recommended to his
Mejelly to exercik that right. In confidering this
fubjee, it would he neceffary to obferve,, what
were the objects for which retaliation was to be
made. The firft object-was, to retaliate in fuch a
manner as would give the bell probability of coun-
teracting the fchemes of the enemy againft our
commerce, and next to make them feel the effects of
their own violence and injultice. It did not appear
to him that his Majelly's &Unifiers had wilily fe-
leifted that part of the enemy's trade in which they
meant to retaliate for the injuries that would be done
to our ccrumerce. It could hardly be Paid that this
meafure would in the leaf; c,unteraft the evils which
the execution sit the French decree might bring upon
our commerce. No man could doubt but that anti
des of Englifh growth and manufacture would Hill
find their way into the markets of the Continent. hut '
the price of them would he much enhanced by 44iiin.
created premium of infurance. and by the many ob.
!lades which this decree would throw in the way of•
their introduCtion. Tilde circum fiances would favotir
the, competition of the mina:tam-es of the enemy.
Now the belt way to retaliate thi. attack uprn our
commerce appeared to him to he, not ch. attack of the
coalling trade of the enemy, hut of their direct trade.
The crafting trade of the enemy was alio harder to be
interrupted titan their di! c6l trade, as fmali veffels
might carry it on, which c mid run under the protec-
ti m of land batteries, or ions force creel(' where our
veffels could not follow them. He thought it would
have been much better to have prevented neutrals
from bringing to Frarce ;he produce of the enemies
colonies. This would have ciikefred France mote,
and would have been caller to do. lf, from the in•
creafe of price, that the enemy woe obliged to pay for
colonial produce, tire articles of French and Spanilh
produce were to be dearer, this woord.be ler viceab:•_
to us in the competition. We were told by Minifters
that in the Treaty with America, there was an ex.
prefs refervatinn of the right of adopting. fuch mea-
Aires as might be neceffar) in retalistiou. If this re.
fervation, however, was in no cafe to be ailed upon,
he did not know what was the rife of it ? He hopeo
that Government were not deter red from aay jull
principle, merely from the fear of offending neutrals
—but, after what he had feen—after the country had
fabmitted to the difgrace of continuing a negoeiation
with America when Minitters had heat,' of the Non
Iraportation Act—when a Treaty was Signed while
the Aft was in force—he could not but be a little

afraid q'at "iriflers did flop in neceffary mutfurzs
retaliation rom ihe fea; Of offending neutral,. ut*
could not fu .pofe t? it America, or any other ueutr4l
nation, could feel tile lean refentment againit this
country, t r a;loptino filch mcaturesnfjult retaliatiot
as
loce her to. Their anger muik
be only
at;ainft that power that compels this country
to hertake
kfucke would have
trightsl.:etwio carry
t
tn
retaliation fo far as to fay, that if France will not
permit ocutrai. ct.ilte Britith r
perra;t any net:;r.;:s tA 70 to France but thole that
have totahed at Britifh port. He conceived,
that the rociforcs t -ken by Governmem were not
adequate to the 4111.;,:ai which they ought to have in
view, and which they prof-died to hive. Alter a
variety of argornews in happart of this opinion, he
cnncluded by tnlvio.T, "‘ That an loth!ble Atidrefibt
ptek.nteel to hi,. Nl:ply, praying hito to order, that;
7th of January,
ba
ecioapi
Jr 001rilsetri,:,file,..;:ur,ncil of the

Si' NEIN .NICHOI. (she King's Pi i.ivocate)
that, is tiring to antwer the Honour .hi, and LeA•.,
ed Gentleman, he wilhed to avoid • tf!y thing e
perfonal artimadverlion, and wifhed to apply hirtedy
principally to the (hope -and ohjedt of the motion
p:op:fed, whicti was one of a nature that had
not tiiitally met a favourable reception (rem thee
Houle. The motion called for the Order of Lis Mas
jeßy in Council, dated the 7th January, direeting the
courfe which his Majelly's !hips of war and mutters
were to take With refpea to neutral veffels trading
with the enemy's port., in confequence of the late
Edift of the French Government pmfcribirg all
commerce of neutrals with this country; but did
his Honourable and Learned Friend, adduce any
precedent of filch a call having been made upon his
Majetly's Minißers, pending a treaty with a Foreign
Power not yet ratified ? If his Hon. and Learned
Friend knew of any fuch precedent, he was bound to
produce it, in order to thew that his claim was en-
titled to countenance from the Houfe. The Hors.
and Learned Gentleman himftlf acknowledged that
the fubßance of the order in quellion had already ap.
peared in the GA zette, and therefore he was already
in poffedion of every information he could really
want upon the general topic. It was not for the
purpnle af refilling any claim for neceffary inform&
tion to the Houle that he role, neither was it to op.
pole the right which the Houle had to call for mei.
far), information, or to prevent any difccflian the
Hoof! might think proper to entertain upon the fob.
jest ; but the document was avowedly called
tor by lit Hon. an.: Learned Friend, with a vievitO
induce the Ilotrie to tr mind come further proceeding
thereto., he was h arrid to futtain the propriety nib's
demand torrn I:me precedent under fuoilar circum;
Eut le. ving all further argument upon this
part of the Ehjea, he fhould now
.pr.-.ceell to are
11,e merits of tne cafe. as if the document required
svere really before the Wofe, confident,- as he was;
that whenever it ihonld be expedient to produce+that
document, the rti.:.ifure would not he found likeTiro
produce thole eftets which his Honourable. Awl
Leair.ed Friend had been pleafed to attribute to
The condun of the French Government, itt"
the e6idt allnded to by his Hon. and Learned Friend,
was allowed cn all hands to be in direa violation of
the law of nations and of the rights of neutral powes,
with a view friely to deftroy, •if poflible, the con.
melee of this coutitt y for what was its tenour and
purport ? Whv to declare, forfooth, all the ports of
the Eritifh Hies in a (late of blockade (although
Fraoee was not al:le to fend a fingle (hip to the mouth
of any unc of them, to fupport the manifello), and
to announce her deiermination to capture and cora
cate every neutral (hip, with its cargo, that (hall have
touched at any of thofe ports on its way to a Conti-
nental port, or than be found approaching thereto,
until Great Britain (hall have renounced the right of
capturing the private (hips of any nation with which
the may be at war, and to confine the exercife of the
right of capture merely to the (hips and vetrels
longing to the Government of the belligerent nation.
But this was a principle as novel in the ufages of war
between Belligerent Powers, as the edidt nfelf was
contra! y to the law of nations. The ufage of captnr•
ing the commercial Mips and cargoes of an enemy at
war was, he contended, as old as war itfelf ; it was
an ufage afferted by every nation, and a right Rill
more important than that of capturing an enemy's
(hip of war—becaufe the commercial velfels of an
enemy contributed fo greatly to increafe his re•
venues and refources for carrying on and protraaing
war—and yet this was the Pole ground of pretence
upon which the French Government proceeded.to
declare the ports of thefe iflands in a Rate of
I blockade ! His HonourAble and Learned Friend did
not venture to fullain . the Condna of France on this
nccatirn ; he wa' of Opinion that neutral nations bad
full right to retaliate, and that thole nations would
allow the. like right to this country, and of having
recoutfe to timilar means for dlftr.iling an enemy,
who has f flagrantly outraged the Law of Nation!.
—The question then to be conlidered was merely
to what extent, it would be politic and advifable to
esti cite that right, without Ft IF giving due notice
thole nations ? NU doubt, this country had, in thf
fill inttance, a right to proceed to !'nine Reps
hut wont!: it be argued, that in the very firft itraance
it would be right to carry the principle of retaliation
to i.s tomtit rigour and extent, indifcriminately to
wards ail neutr.4 powers, whtfe commerce mutt be
equally ernharraffed with our own, by the conena of
Fiance ? believed his Hon. and Learned Friend
would a:low, that this country atonic; !•eit
own intereils, and the dignity of i s eLtraetsr,
proceedi,g at the outlet with modera. eat, hberalr;
and forbearance, towards nations inv ;teal under 0,.
pr,:icrptit-e Edict of France. Some coniideration vat
due to the amicable relationinip exuding between
ourfelues and rations not involved in the war, before
we proceed to adopt agaiott them the rigorous Often
fo wantonly declared :,y France, and which- it would
be time enough to ad.-pt when circumflancers thould
appear to tender it iodifvenfable tat tl.e vindication
of our own commercial rights, Hi- Honourable
Friend, although in the early part of his (vetch be
had in tintained, that see ..ught at once to proceed
wi:li the molt indifcriminare rigour, teemed to adroit,
towards his coriclufinn, ;oat our rroceedtc,gs in the
first inflance fliould be chidly directed .to preclude
the home conveyance, in central-Nu, of lie produce
of the French and Spud]) Col,nies ; andy et he con-
tended, that his Majelly's Mintftets had:.; r adopted
the meafures molt eligible under exiflir.:: I X igaties.
He (Sir John Nichol!), however, ct, "Jed
that