Star.
London, England, 1812-07-11 00:00:00

NS,

.requesting
as tiretd !°i

.01140da Y•
,40,11

s lord übjectioas
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MR. PALkillted CLAIM .
Tbe Earl of MOlRAimovedthii Girder of theddtifor the eel-
setae of Mr. Pahner's Bilk m g illmtlibuse went intd a C -
i Mince amordiegly. • .., T 1.. t . ,
, The LORD CHANCELLOR*, the Committee, moved,
• that the brit clause of the itill,rigianting the per-tentage of di
en the net monist of the Panachiee beyond £240,000 be Muk-
luk As a rated for rejecting the aldose, Ise stated, that it.was
lousaded wt a false recital, toirit purported, that this per-tentage
should be given acerrding to the terms of the warrant of 1789,
1111ileh itilibLelSnletTrtr 3.,. statirdiftti pleasure. The preamble
stated nothing hkeaapreemsnt. ,If Mr. Partner was convinced
that there watiany..tyaernient, why did he not 'consent to an
*Sue to 'try Whether 'Mire was one, or whether, if there was
lane, it had not beau ahaadoned ; and if not abandoned, whe-
it had nOt beet pia an end to by Mr. l'almtr violating the
oirther
weentdPions ? t heir Lordships ought also to remember, that
t• the grant was to be charged upon the whole of the Post-office
3 revise., as well that part which was the hereditary revenue of
`; the Crown, as that which belonged more pecularly to the pub-
'•
lie: This same small- sum of £78,000, and £9,000 a-year,
(;•siught net to be given away out of the public ntoney at any
time in such a cue as this, without a clear and disinct agree-
-1-meet and bargain, and there was here neither agreement nor
. bargatn. The catmint of the Crown had not been given to
1 Ilds sin.
• The Earl of MOIRA allowed that there was no technical
agreement, but there was inch an usderstandipg as ought to
bad the justice and equity of their Lordships. He also spoke
far the public, whose interest it was, that great public set vices
should be justly rewarded. '1 he Noble and Learned Lord could
Dot rarely mean to say, that the whole of the Post office Revenue
was the Hereditary Revenue of the Clown ; and if not, it ought
to be known, that this per-centage did not attach upon the Post-
office Revenue till it went beyond £240,000, white the Here-
_Oar), Revenue did not amount to more than £150,000. '1 he
claim was founded in equity and justice, and ought therefore to
be allowed.
Lord HOLLAND said, that he felt the want of Lord Somers
Ise that House, in order to take care that uncoastitutional doe-
* trines were not promulgated from high authorities. Did the
:s.l'ioble end Learned Lord mean to say, that the hereditary nave -
'nue of the Crown was beyond the controul of Parliament ? If he
,litaisunderstood tie Noble and Learned Lord, he should be glad
:!to sit down, and give hitu an opportunity to explain.
The Earlof LAUDERDALE said, that the Noble and Learned
dard had not said that Parliament had not a controul over the
• Imd-intry revenue of the Crown. He had only said, that the
consent of the Crown had not been given to this Bill in this
House; the necessity of which consent was a most salutary check
against theanischiefs that 'Meg result from canvassing the Houses
et Parliament for grants of the public money. He denied that
there was any agreement whatever in this case; and contended,
,deUhis chase must be left out, as it proceeded on a recital which
1.
VAS absolutely false; but then it was said, that the House of
Xasanstinsaad sesolvolli that this ought to he a grant fur life ;
'aid they bad done it rather whimsically; for they had resolved,
Ilia**. pefgataitage ought to be granted for life, according to the
;pane °fa -warrant, which all admitted was only a grant eluting
I. Illisosura. Was this a reason for their Lordships to join to this
.1111entrffity 1 It wet impossible, as it appeared to him, that they
could do so, unless they were prepared to maintain, that the grant
oaten office during pleasure, meant the same thing as granting it
Idor life. His friends near him bad generally held, that there was
I': i very substandandistinetioa ; and Low came they to alter their
1; opinions on the present occaskin YHe concluded by deals:62g his
' . deckled opposition to the clause.
. 1 Lead HOLLAND complained that his agreement had been
Violated, for he had sat down that the Noble and Learned Lord
alaight explain, but instead of that, his Noble Friend near him
, > /Ad explained for him. The argument of his Noble Friend, how-
.
, doves, waltiot isnot to the purpose, and gave no explanation at all.
Jae agreed, that the chock to which his Noble Friend adverted
arena adman, one, but he understood the Noble and Learned'
Lord to say something which amounted to this—that' Parliament
' ,1144 no authority to make any regulations in regard to the here-
OUT revenue of the Crown, that would bind the .asecessors of
' .41111 OWE. This .was most unconstitutional; and- he thought
t.
the doctrine might be attended' with mischievous consequences,
' *hes «Wag frMts a person in such a high station.
. , Lord Rk.DESDALE spoke against the clause upon moth the
MN- grentitlactha Lard ("keener and Lord Latiderdabi. The
f Clause recited, that the grant was to be for life, in pursuance of a
' wawa m which could not be issued for any other thin a grant
elating pleasure. Why did not Mr. Palmer submit his ease to a
Ivry? Hielad formerly brought it tato a Court of Law, but in
each a manner as made bins certain of being nonsuitod. If he
r- ilaid weed ibis Bill in the Exchequer, an Issue would hive been di-
rocusi, And tae fait of the mdeence of the agreement goad;
,but
lb* bath was, Mr. Palmer was afraid to submit his cue to a Jody.
f • -Lad ERSKINZ said, that as he construed the clause, theta
Wean° ineonsisteatcy in it. It would be a very difficult thing Istfr
*id Mime this in such a disputa to bring it fairly before a Jury.
k Was More proper that their Lordships should decide according
go *hat/appeared to them to be just and equitable, upon due con-
aideratioa of all the circumstances.
.' • Lied GROITLEY supported the clause.
The LORD CHANCELLOR wished that Lord Somers had
been here 'for he would'elther' have frightened thisl out of
the Herd, or the Bill would bare frightened him o ft: •
• ANINIslon thin took 'plan on the pee tentage clahif(-4'...ar it,
Sli.a-Aaainet It, 8--IVlajollty in favour of the clorie Ir. '... .
A aecond division took place, on the' clause for granting the
eireare -or empoo.—ror it, 31—Against it, 26—Majority fur
the• deism, S. ' ..
• -: •It Was understimid,kowever, that another BM should be paned,
milijedling the grant to the Poperty-ta.t.
Ibe Bill at length .:t thole the Committee, was reported
without any amendm sled ordered lobe read a third date next
Timothy. - ,:, • .- : `..-. •
' - rip: iblisirSagir !LSO! "rough a Committee.
•• • 4., .1: 2 1-..,.. , .214‘
.• ... 4 • 11001044 r COMMONS.
. relative to the
ysMOltkiller ART istoYed some resolutions
illsyenaettlagnk was ordered to be debated nest Wednesday.
The Repeat If the General inelosure Iffilvial brought up, and
So third reading ordered for Molday. '''' ''
On Mr. LONG'S motion it was onkred 'that thi House,,on
Its rising, ti tat till Monday.
' Mr:RAMsES brouOt up twd Reports of the' Finance Com-
mittee, orblilF were or&red.to he on tbs Table.
' The Warehouse BIR, the Isle of Man Trash, Bill, and the Con-
solidated fond Bill, were read asecond time, a$ Ordered to be
allaunttted on Monday.' s '.. ..
,s
~
• 714 Prot alb* Mak Bill mil? ondliked. ma the third
raiding orderad for Mouthy: ."'"
Mr. SINCLAIR moved formlieonditt of the corn, grain, dour,
*unopened into England' barn forelgVparta. from 1792 ten
• loss. Also for an account &tile gins of go same ;oracles
daring the same time,:-01"derett "
Me. PROUGHAM seggesfetthe *Piety of moving for an
account of the fish IMported hsko Our tole*, from foreign parts
, raid from England.
leased lOCELY N reported, tilt the
o seßegent bad directed
.no *rtmlasiterto ba smut Llnabla dad also that the papers 1 r
sythwing nto the ifeeello *deo Aker Hall be ISM before
tilt i Nesse. ••10-3 ,t •• '' ' '• • • '
~,fe. OlLEShisidgiluieswiyhtesit Session be had presented a
i.. Petition frost tesit,ioWt Mintifaeturers, compt&ing of the
ti suricaty of tharbillilidd eaniew ti hinceg the Fruit") prisoners.
p Ift tiesaglismoassidikillite • eitlbh of Speaker, he bad corn-
nowaeggsa, ga tit the best method of transacting their
gidelli he had abo applied it* 'feint-
i atit%Oist greit readiness td feitove the
tr;.l rourld . bin lit die iaiiithie iiirdtWWildk'

• -,
_ ......_ ._...._._____ ___.. ... .
PARLIifIifEN'FARt PROCEEDINGS.
HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 10.
Mr. Alderman Comas and others, from the Cairn
' . ... top the Landon Prison and Moor&ldsLeue 1111/8,1
i ere read a fink dme.
1 Mr. Lusa:no-roe and others,, brought up a message
Conisis-tini, srainaithet die Coviinerciairsaeliiiei gal
I been seat, to their L,ordshipa by miscall!, and rrqul
i fliat It tnight be returned to tie Caton tons, wilich wu. tire
knd the Pin renamed accordingly. - -- - ---
Ked.
The Srgi**.._
_is stiPeads 44 was read s seem. *Wad
for Monday. . . . •
Tbe SttrelkOuty Bill was committed.' 'Repast *Mee
The Lottery 13filier o Distiliation MA, sail jito.gpf.B
i were road a ill .., time end passed. . • .
The EaH of Lilt ERDAL.E stated, tbitt Vied obje
several parts of she Highways Surmon!Aillor#Clte •
AO* On Monaay. ' , . . , .. ..