Star.
London, England, 1801-02-26 00:00:00

PARLIAMEIVT4Rr PROCEEDINGS.

HOME OF COMMONS, WEDNESDAY, FEB. as.
The Loan 818, and Bei Sidney Smith's Patton Bill were
read athird time, and pallid.
A Writ was ordered ha the eleCtion of a Reprtfentative for
the Borough of Downpatriek, in Ireland, in the room of the
Honourable Ckstworthy Rowley, who has accepted the office
of CoourtilTioner fur Computations.
Sir Wre. ELLIOT prefented, purfuant to order, few- ral ac-
counts relative to the hipences of the Navy, Sal.,;:es of Offi-
cers. &e.--Ordered to lie on the table.
Sir Wm. Etr.ior tarn moved roe leave to bring in a Bill for
the refutation of the Marine Forces when on lbore..--Leave
granted.
The Committee of Supply and Ways and Means were de-
ferred to Friday—the other orders of the day till to-morrow.
leave of abfence was granted to the following Members :
Sir Wharton Amretts, on account of indifpolition, for lix
weeks ; Sir James St. Clair Erfkine. for Le weeks ; Lord Gal-
way, for three weeks; Sir Michael le I'leming,fur three weekk;
and Marrs. Jekyll, Sturgefs, and Newbolt, to go the Wellern
Circuit.

Mr. Astor? gave notice, that he Sauk! to-morrow move
for the appointment of a Rending Conuoittec, to confider of
the belt means of promulgating the &slut" throughout all parts
of the United kingdom.
Mr. Bit AGGE brought op the Report of the Committee on
the Exchequer Ellis Bill, which was agreed to, and the lilt
ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. . -

Ordered on the motion of Mn ALLARDVCC,that there ihould
be laid before the Knife an account of the grafi amount of the
Receipts of the Poft-othcc of Scodand in the years 1798, 5799,
and z Soo, dißinguidting each ?car.
Mr. BRAGoE brought up the Report of the Com-
mittee out the Bill for increafing the Field Officers
of the Irith Militia. _

Lord BELas AV a laid, that underflanding an Ho-
nourable Baronet intended, in the progrels of the
Bill before the tioufe, to fuggeft .the propriety of
introducing fome provilion to fecure half-pay to the
Surgeons of the Militia, he rofe to Rate, that when-
ever the Hon. Baronet fhould think proper to bring
forward any meafare to that purpofe it fhould haVe
his hearty fupport. According to the exifting law,
Majors and Adjntants only, on that eitabliflunent,
were entitled to half-pay, and he thought the abi-
lity, and the laborious attention fo necefrary in
Surgeons to preferve the health of the men, had
the flrongeß claim to the confideration propofed.
He conceived it advifable, . however, that fuch
Surgeons only fbould be granted half-pay as fhould
be recommended by the Lord Lieutenant of the
county to which the regiment might belong. That
waa proper, in order to prevent undeferving per-
fons from obtaining it—The. Report was agreed
to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third tune
to-morrow.

POOR RIILIEF SILL.

Lord Was. RUSSELL rofe to bring forward his
promifed motion. The neceffity of a meafure to
releafe a certain clefs of perfons from the Poor's
Rates was, he Paid, in the precut erifis, very well
known. To procure that relief was his objea. He
faw no neceffity for dwelling on the obvious policy
of affilling the induitrious Poor, whole laudable
and honeft pride urged them rather to earn their
bread by the fweat of their brow, than depend on
the contributions of public charity. Should the
Honk agree to his motion, his with was, that the
Bill be read a firft time, and on the fecond read-
ing Gentlemen might difcufs its merits, and if no-
thing inconfiftent with found policy or fubftantial
.jultice fhould appear in the principle of the Bill, it
might be committed, and undergo fuch modifica-
tions as fhould be confidered aeceffary. The ob-
Met of the Bill he meant to propofe was, to invert
agiftrates with a power to relieve fuch perfons
from paying the rates as fhould appear to them
deferring of fuch exemption, but to guard againft
the alsufe of that difcretionary power, that fuch
relief fhould be confined to thole who paid under
a certain rent, not over Sl. or thereabouts, and
that they fhould make affidavit of their incapacity
to pay the Poor's-rates, in order to obtain relief.
He concluded with moving for leave to bring in a
Bill accordingly. •
Sir Criaatts BUNIURY feconded the motion.
Mr. Ross faid he would be extremely lorry to
objed to any meafure calculated for the relief of
the Poor, whole fufferings he fincerely lamented ;
but was much afraid the Bill propofed by the No-
ble Lord would; if adopted, be attended with dif-
ficulties in the execution which would more than
counterbalance any advantages that were likely to
accrue from it. It would inflid a grievous burthen
on the Magiftrates, and arm them with a power
inconfiftent with the fpirit of the Poor Laws ; and
would hold out an invitation to the Poor to come
forward with their affidavits. He wifhed much
for fome pradicable meafure to attain the end pro-
poled by the Noble Lord.
Mr. JOLLIFFE walled the Bill fhould, after its
firft reading, be printed, in order that the Houle
might have an opportunity of examining its merits.
Mr. PERCIVAL objetted to the meafure in the
Rate in which it was prefented. The Committee
on the High Price of Provifions was particularly
engaged in examining the fubjet, and he thought
it would be better if the Noble Lord would attend
that Committee and Rate his plan, it might be
made the ground-work of fome provifion complete-
ly calculated to meet the evil complained of. Such
a proceeding would be likely to produce a more
comprehenfive and Metter digeftcd projed. At all
events, the Hoare fhould wait the events of the in-
quiries which occupied the Committee, before they
eonfented to enad the law propofed by the Noble
Lord.

Lord Wm. Russets. explained, that the effect
apprehended by the Hon. Gentleman could not
well be produced, as all the circumllances of every
cafe would be confidered by the Magidrates.
Mr. thought the Bill nnnecelTary,
as in fad the with officers already exercifed the'
very difcretion which the Noble Lord's Bill pro-
pored to place in the hands of the magifirates, and
which he thought would place in their hands a
very dangerous. power, (however highly he re-
(petted them). and change the very nature and
operation of the poor laws; betides in many pa-
fifties of the metropolis the number of perfons un-
able to pay the poor's rates, at prefent was fo
.great ; for inilance, 4. 5,6, 7, and 800, that the
hearing of appeals would be impradicable in the
way proposed. But the parith officers themfelves
did, in Inch cafes. exempt thofe unable to pay,
by returning to them with one hand what they re-
ceived with the other.

Mr. HOSHOUSE raid, it was a id iff
of the Houfe that the diftrefs did calf{ 't9
alarming degree, which the Bill of tbi: Noble
Lord was intended to relieve; and if any evidenee
was wanting to the fa/I, the declaration of rile
worthy magiltrate was in proof. The neceffity of
the was therefore obvious ; and he had heard
no reafous which could diffuade him horn fupport.
ing it. There was no reafon, in fiis mind, for
appealing from the interells of this Houle to the
wifdom of a Committee above. Baits, upon to
preffing a fubjeet.
Sir W. ELFORD faid, there was no doubt but
the diflrefs csifted, and the quellion was, whethe.r
it ought to be made a fubj:it of legiflatire provi.
lion, when the fame relief was now afforded fib F.
Indio? He would not, however, oppofe the firfl
Rage of the Bill brought forward by the Nobk
Lord in fo commendable a manner.

Mr. SRAW LEYRYRR objected to the power
which would bi given to magiftrates of ;itterfer
ing, inftead of ailing conjointly with the Oyu--
feers of the Poor upon fuch occalions. He admit.
ted that the poorer defies of houfekecpers were in
a very lamentable (tate ; but the pratlite now w.,1
to relieve fuch indigent perfons on the recommen-
dation of the Veftry. The confequence of fuel,
vet mmendations was, that either no demand was
made, or, if made, the money was afterwards re-
turned. Another thing that would impede :he
praCticability of the Bill- was, that in Come placei
the rates were impofed upon the whole, and in
others upon rack-rents.
Mr. Et tisom declared that he felt difpofed to
concur in any prudent and praCticable mode ofre-
lief ; but the country had already fuffered fo much
by precipitate meafures, that he thought the pre-
fent thould at leap be deferred until there was a
more accurate enquiry. In the firft place, he'ap-
prehended no Magiftrate would with to undertake
fo fufpicious a duty as that of deciding on the per-
Cons who were to be the objetts of relief, which
would expofe them to the odium of all the other
poor who may be difappointed by the telethon of
their applications; and, at the fame time, it would -
be arming them with a power which the Legilla-
tore was always ftudious to withhold from them.
The objed of the Bill was undoubtedly good, lour
its principle was vicious, as the different orders of
the poor were fo blended, that it was matter of ex-
treme difficulty to relieve one without at the fame
time finking another. He therefore was for refer.
ring the fubjed for further confide:shin.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR contended that this Bill
would rather cafe the Magiftrates than load them
with additional trouble. If a perfon was now
fummoned as a defaulter to the poor rates, heap.
plies firft to the Magiftrates, and afterwards ap-
peals, Qsould he be diffatisfied with the firft deci-
fion. The neceffity of the cafe was fo urgent, that
the Houfe could not wait for the Report of its
Committee; and the more, as he could prove
that the evil was every week increafing. As to
the expediency of the meafure, therefore, there
could be no difference of opinion, though the ex.
tent of the Bill; and the time of its duration, may
afford matter for difcuffion.

Sir Rossar BUXTON was of opinion that lime
meafure, fuch as that propofed, was ncceffitry,
although he thought, at the fame time, that it
would better to refer it to the Committee abo e
hairs.

Lord WILLIAM Russsia. had no objeCtion to
referring it any where, if the meafure was adopt-
ed. He objeCted to delay; the meafure would
lofe its efficacy, if it was not adopted before Fal-
ter ; for at that time applications are made by the
Overfeers to the Jullices for warrants to diftrefs
the goods of thofe perfons who. are in arrears.
He had no objeCtion to refer it to the Committee
above Rainy, if they would make a fpeedy Report -
on it.

The StrAlttll recommended force farther in.
ftnietion to the Committee than merely the words
of the Motion.

Mr. M. A. TAYLOR requelled his Noble Friend
not to withdraw his Motion. He advifed the
Houfe to permit the Bill to be read a firil and
fecond time, and to be printed for the information
of Members, who would then judge whether it
was expedient to pats it, or to refer it to the Com-
mittee.

Mr. BAKER wifhed the Motion to be withdrawn.
He did not think there was any neceffity for the
Bill, for the Magiftrates had already fufficient
powers to remedy the evil complained of, and
Magiftrates do now acl fo as to anfwer every requi.
iite end of the propofed mcafure. If an Ovcrfeer
infifts upon a Magiftrate to grant a warrant of
diftrefs, it was true that he could not refufe it,
although he was certain of the perfon's inability
to pay. But how was this to be reclined I He had
done feveral times, what he 'should now recom-
mend to other Magiftrates—allow the Overfeers
to take the goods, but when the poor perfon comes
to him for relief, he would order him in return
three times what' was taken from him, if the
urgency of the fituation required it. He fa* no
reafon for fuch Bill, therefore, unlefs Magilhates
did not mean to do their duty.
Mr. Roasox Caw the utmoft neceffity for the
Bill, and urged the Noble Lord to perfevere in his
Motion.
Mr. SHAW Ls RRRRR thought that it would be
very proper to follow the recommendation of the
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Taylor) to have
the Bill read and printed.
Lord WILLIAM Russet'. denied an affertion
advanced by Mr. Lefevre, that Magiftrates had
at prefent the power of exempting poor houfe-
keepers from the poor rates. He mentioned that
a Magiftrate could not under the exifting law re-
fute a warrant of diftrefs if the Overfeer peremp-
torily demanded it. He had no objeclion to refer
the Inkjet to the confideration of the Committee
alluded to in the debate, provided they made their
report fpeedily upon it, as it was neceffary, in or.
der to anfwer the purpofe, that the Bill thould pats
before Eager, as that was the time the Overfeers
made up their accounts.
Mr. BRAGG' approved of the idea of referring
the bufirtefe to cbaltderation of the Committee.
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propriety of hail eggreleptpofed inftruCtiou to the

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