Star.
London, England, 1823-07-08 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 7.
Appeals were proceeded with at twelve o'clock, when the Loan
CHANCiLLOS moved their Lordships in the appeal of Atkyns v.
Wright. and the judgment of the Rolls Court wacreversed.
Mr. Nolan was afterwards heard for the respondent, in the
appeal of the Eirl of Rosse v. Sterling, and Mr. Hart in reply,
for the appellant, in part.
Mr. TOMLIN!, from the Treasury, presented a aeries of Re-
turns of the Average Price of Barley, in pursuance of an Order
of the House.
Mr. Bananas, Sir JAMES GRAHAM and others, brought up
the Exchequer Bills (XI 4,700.000) Bill, the Ireland Court of
Exchequer Bill, the Church (Ireland) Rates Bill, the East India
Half-Pay Bill, the Ireland Passage Vessels Regulation Bill, the
Equalisation of Duties Bill, the Ireland Drawbacks Bills, the
Law of Merchants Bill, and some other Bills, which were after-
, wards read a first time.
The Larcenies Bill was read a third time, pawed, and mes-
saged to the other House.
Lord HOLLAND took occasion to refer to what passed on
a former night, when the St. Petersburgh Marriage Bill was be-
fore the House; and he observed that it then appeared to be the
opinion of their Lordships, that the like validity thus given to
our marriages in Russia should be extended to all such marriages
in foreign parts. He bad, therefore, to present a short Bill, cal-
culated to relieve his Majesty's subjects from all possibility of
doubt respecting such marriages as happened to have been so-
lemnised by and between such persons while resident in foreign
States.—Read a first time.
After some conversation held across the table by the Earl of
LIVERPOOL and other Lords, it was agreed that the Ireland
Tithes Composition Bill should be read a second time preforms
to-morrow, and that the discussion should stand over untile
th
House got. into a Committee on Wednesday, when it was under-
stood that the Noble Earl himself would be prepared to make
his statement to their Lordships.
Lord REDESD A LE moved this House to resolve into a
Committee on the Ireland Court of Chancery Bill, when some
amendments were introduced by the Noble and Learned Lord,
and agreed to, and the Report ordered to be redeived to-morrow.
It was understood that the Scotch Juries' Bill was postponed
to the same day.
SCOTTISH HERITABLE PROPERTY.
The Earl of ROSSLYN now moved their Lord-
ships to resolve into a Committee of the whole House
upon the Scotch Transfer of Securities Bill. He
wished the measure to pass: for, among other objects,
it- appeared to him desirable that the pi oprietortof
land in Scotland should be placed on the same foot-'
ing with regard to securities as the landlords of
England. He was aware that the present Bill came
before their Lordships late in the Session, but it had
been delayed, like many Bills, from the excessive
pressure of business in the other House. • •

stand part of the motion.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE was decidedly in
favour of the principle of the Bill. With respect to
the opinions of legal men, he could undertake to as-
sert that the more eminent of the profession did not
contemplate the passing of the present Bill as likely
to prove an injury to law. It was wished, in effect,
to give the same security in the transfer of heritable
bonds with regard to Scotland, as was enjoyed by
the landholders and proprietors here.
The LORD CHANCELLOR was apprehensive
that the Bill, however well intended, would not ope-
rate in the manner which its supporters had hoped for.
It would not, for instance, at all benefit the heritors of
Scotland in the article of stamps ; as, from one end to
the other, no mention was made of stamps. With re-
gard to what had been stated as to the eminence of the
Scotch Bar, and even the Bench of Scotland, both,from
the opportunities which had occurred to him of ob-
serving the talents of that profession, were most able
and most enlightened, and yielded to none; but whe-
ther the forms and processes, and modes of pleading
in the Scotch Courts were indeed such as to enable
the subjects of the country to derive the benefit they
otherwise might from the talents of the Bar and the
wisdom of the Bench, was quite another question,
and well demanding the consideration of all parties.
If asked his own opinion on particular points, he
should perhaps say that it was possible to improve
the mode of conveyancing in Scotland. The object of
the Bill was plain—it went to give a greater facility
in the transfer of heritable bonds, but made no pro-
vision for stamps, there was no stamping clause. His
opinion was, upon the whole, that further time
should be given for consideration, as the Bill required
great revision to carry its objects into due effect.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, that the pre-
sent Bill had already been nearly two years before
the House, which circumstance was a sufficient an
swer to the objection as to time. If, however, he
had ever thought that the present Bill would go in
its operation to destroy all heritable rights, he
could assure their Lordships that he certainly should
haie been the very last man to support it. But he
was convinced that the Bill would not destroy herit-
able rights, though it would secure'all heritable bonds.
Explanations took place between the LORD CHAN-
CELLOR, and the Earls of LAUDERDALE and ABER-
DEEN, when the amendment, that the House resolve
itself into a Committee (not ,4 now") this day three
months, was carried ; and of course the Bill is lost
for the present Session.
THE INSURRECTION ACT.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved, that their Lord-
ships should now proceed to the Order of the Day ;
and the Order being read, be next moved the second
reading of the Irish Insurrection Act.
The Earl of DARNLEY—Does the Noble Earl
intend to move so important a Bill as this without
assigning one reason for it ?
The Earl of LIVERPOOL—In answer to the ques-
tion put by the Noble Lord oppbsite, I can only say,
that I believe it was understood tkat this and other
points were included in the late motion made by a
Noble Duke upon the state of the affairs of Ireland ;
and I mly venture to add, that almost all Noble
Lords then present in this House, at least with a very
few exceptions, were agreed, not, certainly, as to
what measures should hereafter be adopted in rela-
tion to the Sister Kingdom, but that your Lordships
were agreed, at all events, as to the adoptiun of this
measure, which was deemed to be indispensable to
the peace of Ireland. With this impression as to this
particular Bill, and under such circumstances as we
are discussing, I do not see that I should be warranted
in troubling your Lordships with going now into
mere objections in detail, when nothing is likely to be
offered in opposition to the principle of the Bill, much
less against the necessity of its application. It is im-
possible, my Lords, for any man seriously to look
over the evidence now upon your table, and not to
feel that your Lordships owe it to the loyal subjects
of the Sister Kingdom, and that you owe it to the se-
curity of property in that portion of the empire, to
pass the present Bill. I own, my Lords, that I re-
gret most sincerely, the necessity we are under in
forwarding such a measure as this; but he who feels
most desirous to do better for Ireland—who wishes
to see her benefit by the benignity of legislation—that
person would, my Lords, be anxicus to pass the pre-
sent Bill purely to secure the peace of Ireland. 1 be-
lieve there is no person out of this House who in-
tends to repair to Ireland, and that there are none
among your Lordships, many of whom are going to
reside there, who do not wish the present Bill forth-
with to pass ; nay, I will say more, who would not
implore your Lordships, if they supposed you were
hesitating, to pass the Bill now before the House.
The Earl of LIMERICK, though connected. with
Ireland, and attached to the interests of that country,
said be must distinctly state, that it was a duty of
their Lordships, to the peaceable and loyal part of the
population of Ireland, to enact the provisions of the
Bill. When he stated this, however, let it not be sup-

induced him to protest against the passing of the Bill,
though he was aware that it was become a matter of
course in the present times. If the experiment were
tried next Session, he could only now declare that he
should be determined to oppose it.
Lord CALTHOR PE said,that although he deplored
the necessity which he conceived their Lordships
were under to pass the present Bill, yet he consented
with less reluctance than he otherwise should, under
the conviction that the operation of the Act would
be limited in all cases to the necessity that enforced
it. But the severity of the remedy was sufficient to
indicate the depth and inveteracy of the disease; for
the continued reqewal of such measures indicated a
degree of disorder which shewed the malignancy, if
so it might be called, of that habit which converted
those institutions found so beneficial here into un-
mixed evil with regard to Ireland. Thus, for exam-
ple, the elective franchise, though considered so es-
timable a boon in this country, was turned to abuse
and the purposes of vassalage in Ireland. The root
of so much evil, the prolific source of such grievances,
must lie deep ; but what could easily be done for the
amelioration of a half civilised, half-educated, and
half-employed population ? It was appalling to re-
flect on the enormities sliich in such a country had
been perpetrated, as it undoubtedly was, at the same
time, heart-rending to comprehend its wretchedness
and its woe. The first business of legislation, in all
cases remedial, was rendered a problem, if not a
difficulty, in the best regulatinas as they respected
Ireland. Grand Juries, which were in this country
productive of so much security, were in Ireland the
sources of misfortune. All the bounties of nature,
the fertility of' her soil, were perverted and counter-
acted by the system there pursued. It was obvious,
that when the great mass of the people aet e reduced
to the minimum of subsistence, and while they con-
tinued in that state, while a man's life was held as
cheap as those of beasts, that it would be absurd to
hope for any amelioration in their moral system, or
that they should be anything but a cause of uneasi-
ness and alarm to this country. All efforts to pro-
duce improvement would be useless, if we did not
look to the state of moral degradation which arose
out of the character which the Catholic Religion had
assumed in Ireland. That which ought to be the
origin of light and civilization was, on the contrary,
the source of gross ignorance and extreme darkness.
He disclaimed all intention of saying any thing cal-
culated to run down the Catholic Religion, knowing,
as be did, that to it the service of our own Clrorch
was indebted for some of its most approved forms ;
and recollecting aho that the Catholic Church had
produced many men who have rendered considerable
service to the State. In Ireland, however, the Catho-
lic Religion (always prone to error, and leading to
the grossest corruption) was in the darkest and most
degraded state; therefore, any remedy to remove the
evils that exist in that country would fall short of its
object, if means were not taken to give to the people
a Religion likely to produce civilizing effects. Chris-
tianity could not have prevailed in Ireland in the
same way as elsewhere, for it-had not produced simi-
lar consequences. He had no idea of forcing the
Protestant Religion upon the Catholic}; hut he
thought the funds derived by our Clergy from the
Catholic population ought not to be looked upon
by them as a gratuity, but as a call upon them to do
'everything in their power for the moral improve-
ment of those people. With such a formidable wea-
pon in its hands as a system of education, he thought
the Church of Ireland was capable of doing much
good in that way ; and be looked to its members with
hope, that they would exert themselves to promote
education, and consequently civilization throughout
i the country.—The House then divided—
Fur going into the Committee • 36
• Against it -
Majority -—4 l
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, On
their re-admission to the Gallery, their Lordships
were in a Committee.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought the Act more
calcnlated to promote irritation than itanciliation.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said drat the great
advantage of the Act was, that it konlitaed the; people
to their houses between sunset and sunrise, and thereby
prevented the commission of outrages which were