Star.
London, England, 1831-08-05 00:00:00

FOREIGN AFFRIIII.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY felt pain in com-
plaining of a little want of candour on the part of his Ma-
jesty's ministers towards him, in the answers they gave to
the questions he had put respecting instructions given to
military or naval commanding officers in Portsmouth as to
the reception they were to give to little Donna )dada.
noble Earl (Grey) had replied that he did not know what in-
struction were sent, or if any. He felt surprised, in read-
ing in an Evening Paper, under the head of Portsmouth,
that orders had been received to receive the Queen of Por-
tugal, or as he (the Marquis of Londonderry) would call
her, the little Pretender (laughter) with all the honouri paid
to Royalty. He thought that it was impossible that orders
could have been sent without the knowledge of the Noble
Earl, or:that she could have arrived without his being aware
of it. The noble marquis then repeated his question, if
any instructions had been sent.
Earl GREY did set know upon what ground he was
charged with a want of candour, when the noble marquis
had put the question on a former evening. Ile then replied
that he did not know if any instructions had been sent. He
had since inquired, al.d the result was, the. no letter had
been written to the commanding officer at Portsmouth, but
that a verbal communication bad been made, that when the
Emperor Don Pedro and his daughter should arrive, that
they should' be received with a royal salute, and the hceours
due to their rank. This was the state of the case. He con-
d.:tuned the course pursued by the noble marquis, in stig.
matishig as a pretender Donna Maria, who was received
here, and acknowledged by his het Alajesty% as the legit!.
mate sovereign of Portugal. Notwithstanding all the im.
parlance attached to this question by the noble marquis, he
({earl Grey) deemed the whole matter of little importance,
and .considered that the noble marquis had found in the
halalltaia what was commonly termed a mares 'nest.—
agaghteT.
Ttie Bari
of ABERDEEN agreed that those honours
were mete facts of courtesy :due to Donna Mil t. Bat

though his late Majesty acltncv.
Crown of Portugal, it was for the a
eider If she was now acknowledged
there was no reason why Henry V
!edged King of France.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that his min I
was relieved, (laughter), as there was no andtrstanding
that Mona Maria was received as Queen of Portugal.—
Three years had elapsed since she was received in tl:i4
country as the legitimate Sovereign of Portugal, and since
which period a King had been chosen, to whom the greatam
affection was shown by his subjects. With the noble
Earl's notion of non-interference, he (the Marquis of Lon-
donderry) did not know how this young person could b
received as Qieen, what his Majesty's alinsters knew thai
Portugal unanimously had approved of the King of Portu-
gal's conduct.
The Coal Duty Bill was read a second time. • ••• • •
The Earl of ABERDEEN wait requested by his nol4ll
friend the Duke of Wellington, who wai unable to attend
from indisposition, and who had some remarks to make eu
the Coal Duty Bill, to say that be would mace his 04C711 , -
dons at same future stage of the bill.
Lord AUCKLAND moved the Oricr of the May 1,.•
considering the prohibition of the growth of Tobacco
Ireland Bill.

After 'tome remarks from Lords Tur rritAst,Wicwtow,
and FAINHAM, against the bill, and from the Marq•ri
LANSDOWN in favour of it, the bill went through a Com-
mittal.

The Earl of ELDON moved for a ropy of the indict-
ment and all the papers connected with the prosecution ••'
Daniel O'Connell, Evq. end others, in the Kings Benc:l
Ireland. The noble earl expressed his determination t•t
bring in a bill to prevent the ends of justice from !irk ,
again defeated in similar Cues.
The Noble Earl's remarks were quite inaudible. Tl—
motion was agreed to.
The house adjoarned at a quarter put six o'clock to th:s
dey.
HOUSE OF CO M IUO NS.
Mr. Kivu, the Chairman of the Coleraire Election Cnei -
tritmembreteght up the sopeet, swine that Sir Jobe Brydccs
want* duly elated mauve in Parliament for that borougi,
but that Alderman Copeland was duly elected, and ought t
have been retained.

The Clerk of the Crown being in attendance, the nar—
of Alder Enid Copeland was substituted on the roll for th
of Sir Jobs &Ogee, and the Hon. Alderman took the oaths
and his sett.

Mr. WILLIAMS presented *petition from Centeno
'
shire praying that the landed interest should be put on the
eamefooting as to the right of voting as rise 101. hosts.-
holders.

Hr. BUCK pulsated a petition from the freemen of
Exeter, praying for the continuation of their chartered rights ;
and one from the same place, against capital punishments fo
crime against property.
Mr. GILLON presented* petition from Linlithgow eons -
plaloing of the delay which is made with the Reform Bill,
and praying that the House do pass it with all spetd c 0...
sistently with the forms of Parliament. The hon. memb.l
perfectly concurred in the /lever of the petition. The feelirid
throughout the country was that the time of the House wit
wasted night after night with frivolous debetcs. let ti e
House take care that the spirit of the North he not roused by
their proceedings.
dlr. WYNN thought it extraordinary that the pettionera
should set themselves up as judge* wt the time which t:.e
house ought to take in discussing an English Itcternt Biii ;
the house were the proper judges of this sohjte-. The
moor which it was attempted to raise on thus occr.sion cos
something similar to that which might be raised against
judges and juries, for trying 50 or 60 prisoners in a dock.
Mr. O'CONNELL observed that the comparison between
the rotten boroughs and prisoners was just so far correct, as
perhaps they might be all criminals—(Laughter.) But there
was this difference, that the prisoners would not be allowe.l
to be judges in their own case, whereas the nominees were.
(Hear, hear.) He would mum that the time of the hon.e
was wasted by frivolous objections, unfounded in argitmert.
He had heard a member make the same speech id lino.,
OWL (Cheers and laughter.)
Mr. W. HONDAS defended the conduct cf the Opprsi.
tion. The supporters of the bill woe more de:itient in acry-
manta than hs opponents.
Lord STANLEY thought that the retit loners were jost-
led in the course which they pursued. *flute was utheely
one individual in the house mho did not feel the inehnce-
nience of delaying 'the b 11, (rib,. vi no, to); evtn t.
opponents of ibe bill could rot nish fo: a reedies, tit hi,.
He could see no objtc,icn to the Ix ution being r meld
Sir R. VY YY AN did not deem it decent, when the hens*
was deliberating on so important a memoir, to hue petits t s
presented remarking on their conduct. Ile could hot fe 1
himself attacked by this petition, b.eause he had h intr...
refrained from addressing the house. Bel he claimed a rig,' t
for the representatives of those la 'toughs wh:ch were db-
franchised, to be heard.

Mr: (RATTAN a.;Yeed with the ht.me bAronet that the
representatives of those placer which were dr.e.tvd by the
measure should be heard; but he objec ed !tt 3 few numb: r 4
monopolising all the time of the house, and litchi; them-
selves up u champions for every borough.
After a few words from Mr. t . PELHAM,
Mr. D. W. HARVEY observed that the peti loners di
not object to deliberation; but they would say that the it:tte
of the house war wined withtut deliberation. for wifely
repetition of a sparch by the sane menthir I t quo.* could
not be deemed deliberation. He thought that the people of
Scotland had as good a right to petition respecting dila saii.
jeer as the E -glish, for the Soto ch reform bill au dela3.ti
in consequence of thin bill being delayed.
After a few words from Mr WYNN and llr. O'CON-
NELL respecting the Anierian independer.ce and the French
revolution.

Mr. HUNT put It to honourable members whether der
discussion in that house was not prolonged fart night, by .Fe
proe,edings of the Common Council in bond Ile .hotight
that the best way to let the public feeling evaporate wig to
receive their petitions, and for that Teasel) hr regretted that
the petition from the Birmingham Union had net been re.
eared. He trusted that this petiti m would be et ceived.
Mr. LEFROY chained, that those boroughs were not
treated with as much justice as criminals would be on their
trial, for the latter would be allowed the advantage of coun.
sel. Rtskles, the judges would lean towatd4 them, where+ s
the bribe utilised to hear counsel on behalf of the borough.
whiehlwere disfranthised.
_ _

Mr:BURGE was su
to are such petitio: a, praying
to destroy. without deliberation, a constitution which had
been the work of ogee. If this meagre wu goal, it could
mot suffer by discusahm ; he was therefore astonished to see
1 the supporters of it, who magnified its excellence, object to
1 discussion.

Mr. NORTH was astonished that his Majesty's mi. is.
ten, who proposed this as s anal measure, should be so
anxious to accelerate it without discussion. pankularly as
they themselves had admitted that many errors had crept
into the bill, which errors they corrected, when their mashes
(the people) pointed them out to them. 4a for hiruk.lf, he
coosidered It by no means a final MilLlufe. He thought it
would only lad to more extensive changes. He wculd ac-
knowledge he had been disgusted with much of the discus.
slots which took place on this subject.
Mr. C FERGUSSON was opposed to the use of threatr.
He thought the House should be allows d to discuss this
and every other measure, without restraint. He would ad.
mix that much of the time of the House was nted!essly con-
sumed in debates, not on the principle of the measure, hot
on formal and trivial points.
Mr. ROBINSON made some observations to the same
effect.
Sir C. FORBES would suggest the propriety of &paw-
log with the forms of the House, and have the Bill puled
ail at once, since the supporters of it were opposed to dfs.
cusslon, and mot inclined to offer any arguments in favour
of it.

1 he petition was then laid on the table.
Mr. S. RICE brought in a bill to equalise the duties on
wire, which was read a first time.
Colonel FRENCH gave notice that he would on Monday
next move for a Select Committee, to adopt means to make
the House of Commons mote commodious and less unwhol.
some.

WINE DUTIES.
Mr. ATTWOOD, in moving for a rt turn of the qv; r.t:ty
of wines which duties had been levied for the last ter.r
months, without the authority of law. observed that it wit.
fit for the House to know on what authority the‘e eatma
were levied, and when they knew it, it was for them to et.
chic what step should be adopted to Nintlicate etc irjoe.
lice done to the public. On the 11th of July, the Howe
passed a naiades, that it was expedient to make cern.
alterations Wilk duties so wines; but the resoiutieet
not say when tils ehanga should take place. 'He the e.
foes contended ' the . hts Majesty's Oovernmsest ' via
not justified in imposing the new duties, .until the lame or
the commencement of such dales waswis limed by the Leg la
lature. Was it proper that the peopk should be thu tax d
without the authority of parliament ? In the last par L..

Illent,the coal duty, and oti.er dot ies,amourning to a million
and a half, awe repealed by his Majesty's Government,
without the authority of parliament. The House had not
time to pass a law UP petting these duties, all on account of
the Reform Rill. Thus taxes for six months were repealed
before the House was called cam to sanction the repeal. It
nes an vomit to the legislature. and a mockery of parlia-
saent. tie thought that the House should be put in 104.
5e...11r1 Of the authority under which these dunes had been
.ad, and that they should then %indicate the rights of the
The hon. naa.l.er concluded by moving for a copy
the ai.thority under which the duties en wires were levied
s'r•-• the 20th of July lass.
Tor question having been nut from the Chair,
Loy ALTHORP denied Facing recourse to any inipro.
p.. 1 means of procuring support to the resolution respecting
tb wine dillies. He did not take the house by sitprise on
that occasion. as alleged- by the hon. member. Ile had no
kretion to the production of the order moved, for it was
ot the usual kind. Ile thought that the ir.terest of the trade
was better consulted by imposing the new duties imme-
diately after the passing of the resolution. So objection had
been made to it. It was the usual course fot ministers to
pursue on such occasions, told the trade were well aware of
it. The noble lord would rather shape the Inotien thus:
That there be laid befwe the house espies of all orders
trtirretty duties were levied on wines, in consequence of a
resolution of that house on the Itch of July last.
Mr. ROBINSON never could admit that a resolution of
that house should have the same weight as if the measure
had been agreed to by the legislature. Ile did not think
that there was any precedent completely in point far such a
proceeding.
Mr. GOULBU RN conceived that if this ca,e was brought I
in:o a precedent, it would have a dangerous tendency. It
Lad always been the practice to state in such resolutions thr
period at which the new deities should attach, but that
ea, omitted on this occasion ; consequently, the parties
rirerested had no reason to apprehend that the duties were
to be levied immediately. The difficulty arm: from the
delay between the passing the resolutiou and the Intro.
duction of a bill to carry it into teem It was a violation
of the privileges of the other house to levy new duties
ti.ithout their concurrence, for thotnth they could not make
any change in the duties. still they were empowered to
give a negative so the measure.
Mr. P. THOMSON observed that a course precisely si-
r..ilar to this was pursued in 1825, in reducing the duties
wines, and the principle was the same, wile-due duties
were to be raised or lowered. The period between the pass-
big of the resolution and the Bill on that occasion, was
greater than that on the present occasion, yet the resolution
was then carried immediately after it passed.
Sir C. IVETH ERELL thought that a resolution to re.
duce the duties on wine was a different thing from the disco.
lu:iun of the Methuen treaty. He for one could not recog.
idse the principle of giving the same effect to a resolution of
the house, as a solemn ate of the legislature.
Mr. COURTENAY did not think that the noble lord
was justified in imposing the new duties.
Mr. O'CAL LAIJIIAN was of opinion that government
should not pursue the course respecting changes in slinks,
s.liieb they were in the habit of pursuing. The consequence
of carrying such resolutions into immediate effect was, that
they had a retrospective operation, by raising duties, or di-
minishing them, on stock in hand.
Mr. ATT WOOD replied, and the motion, as untended
by Lord Althorp, was agreed to. As was also a motionb
M .1
r. Attwood, tot a return of the quantity of wine on whie
the new duties had been levied since July last.
On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the report of the
Committee, respecting the grant to the Princess Vittoria,'
was brought up, and agreed to famine eontradieetsio, as the
Speaker jocularly observed.

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