Star.
London, England, 1825-04-30 00:00:00

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measure, because be believed k right in itself, and also
because it was eticolated to assist the question of
Emancipation. Mr. Pitt had sad many years ago that
the measure of Emancipation ought to be mended by
this measure of a pecuniary provision for the Catholic
'Clergy—(h./ear). He could not apprehend that any
danger- *mild result from the applintments by the
Pope. It *as prow that if the measure passed, the
Catholic Clergy should give up their present sources of
income. The reason why he WAS not in favour of
giving a similar stipend to the Dissenting Clergy, was because die
lame political•necessity did not exist--(Hear)Tbe Right Hob.
Gentleman thought that the measure would tranquilize Ireland,
and £250,000 was a trills in comparison with such a benefit.
Mr. It. MARTIN said, that he was able to state,
from the most intimate acquaintance with all the Ca-
tholic Hierarchy, that they were wholly disinclined to
receive any stipend from Government—( Hear). The
'Catholics did not originate the measure, but it arose
from. Members of the House. The Catholic Clergy, if
they received any stipend from the State, would lose
their influence over the people. At present they received
as. much or more from the voluntary grant of the
people than they would receive under the Bill. He,
'weever, would support the BM, and his reason was, to takeaway
a great reproach from the Protestants—{Hear).
Mr. S. RICE said, his reasons for supporting the
measure were—first, that the Catholic Clergy were
more powerful than any other in Ireland, and it was
therefore desirable to place them in an amicable relation
with .the State ; and secondly, that the people were
poor, and badly. able properly to support them. He
knew instances where the peasantry we e banished from
Christian worship, because they had not the means of
supporting a P.iest amongst them—(Hear, hear).
With regard to the cootroul, which it was desired m.ght
be reserved to the State,
.he should by no means ac-
piles& In such a regulation, nor in any other which could place
them in a state of dependence.
Mr. GOULBURN said, he did not mean to advert to
the'sneasure as one involving a question of economy.
He opposed it, first, because he thought it could net
effect its proposed benefit ; and, secondly, because the
House was completely in the dab k as to the requisite in-
formation prior to proceeding to legislate. In propor-
tion as you made the Catholic Clergyman independent
of his flock, in that proportion you would diminish the
attachment of the latter. If a provision was once made
for the Catholics there would be no reason to witbold it
from all other Dissenters, and though the expenditure
0(250,0001. might not be an object, it would be very
different hereafter, when we had to satisfy the claims of
all other dissenting congregations. He objected to the
meashrepriocipally on the ground of want of information.
Mr. CALCRAFT said. the reason why the resolu-
tion was confined to the Secular Clergy was, that they
performed the principal part bf the duties: He was
prepared to pass this measure on its own merits ; but
one thought it a more Statesman-like manner of settfing the affairs
of Ireland, considering the three questions simultaneously. lle was
anxious for the success of this measure,beeause he thought it would
be the seal and bond to the tranquillity of Ireland.
Mr. CREEVEY said, it was impossible, after read-
ins 'the Report, not to see the necessity of making some
provision for the religious instruction of the people. He
bad no objection, therefore, to the sum proposed ; but
should object to having the provision made from taxes
paid by the Protestant people of England. To that he
never would consent. In a country, the population of
which consisted of six millions of Roman Ca holies,
'•-Rte hundred thousand Dissenters, and five hundred
thdu and of the Established Church, and where tbe Es-
tablished Church was so wealthy, this provision should
be-paid our of its own funds. He should never vote
for it otherwise. Let them settle ft between them. He shoe
have nothing do-with it—(A laugh.) When he voted for Catholic
Emancipatiod, he voted for it mot as a favout, but as a right.
Mr, BROUGHAM felt, alter a long debate, and at
the end of a week, that Gentlemen might be excused
for expressing impatience—( A cry of hear). And ,he
.asstued an Honourable Gentleman, who agreed with
him 'in exclaiming hear I that be would not detain him
from his wished-for test, which the Honourable Mem-
_ beribad deserved by much watching, or much sleeping
—(A laugh), He felt no difficulty about the qoestion.
It was one within a narrow compass, and from the time
Mr. Fox brought the Catholic Question forward twenty
years ago, he bad never heard it discussed without an
admission that something must be done for the Clergy.
They bad gone through the great question before they
came to this, and finding it to be one on which his•mind
had been long made up, he should give his vote for it.
He 'was not.called upon to consider the condition of the
Catholic Church. The Resolution only proposed that
some provision be made for the Roman Catholic Priests.
flehad felt alarm lest there should be any increase of
the patronage of the Crown. All that anxiety was
however removed, for there was no unconstitutional
iangerous augmentation of that power proposed.—
He 'should consider the power of the nomination of
Priests if conferred on the Crown dangerous. The sum
to be given was about the amount paid to the Presby-
terian Clergy, and he readily voted the money to the
Catholic. Priests because. they were instructors of the
population. He could. not admit that every sect of
Dissenters ought to receive money .from the Govern-
If they were to support all sects, they might
pay Abe followers of Joanna Soutbcote, who helievein
Shiloh, and who consist of twelve persons. Nothing
crielld be time dangerous to the Catholic Question than
to admit that the ailOwance was given as a security.—
He denied that security was necessary, because if they
once admitted security -ought to be taken, there was
proof of the existence of danger—(Hear). He would
not allow there was any danger is granting the Catholic '
At the measure should pass, security would be found In the hearts of
the 'lrish people
Mr. PLUNKETT rose amidst the cry of question.—
He was desirous Of—making a single observation. In
much of what had fallen from his Hon. and Learned

friend he concurred. It was not right to talk of dan-
ger arising out of the Catholic Queitton. The measure
then under contemplation, if carried, would enable the
Protestants to say to those Roman Catholics who com-
plained of paying tithes to the Clergy of the Established
Church—We ,alao pay towards the support of the Ca-
tholic Priests.
The question was then loudly called foci and the House divided—
For the Resolution • • 20S
Against it 162
Maine ky
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
/louse adjourned at a Quarter past One o'Clnek.

A Corespondent suggers, that if the Managers of
the Theatres which his-XIAJBaTY intents to visi %Tie
to dispose of the tickets, either on the eve, or early on
the morning of that day, and affix a notice when all dis-
po ed ef, this would enable them to open the doors
perhaps two err there hours sooner, and thus prevent
that rushing which suight eventually:prove fatal co many.
In Scotlaseir Petitions es adopted sgalost The pre-
sent system of Corn Laws; as gar rally as to England.