Star.
London, England, 1823-07-10 00:00:00

nuons than that of the Nol)le Earl, for they plainly
stated that they wished to compel the Church to
consent to a commutation of tithes on the broad

principle that necessity and the sat* populi required
it. The Noble Lord then proceeded to take a brief
review of the various clauses of the Bill, with the
imperfect nature of some of which he expressed
himself extremely dissatisfied. He had .thought
that this progeny of so many Jupiters, and which'l
had been so long in begetting, would have come
into the House in its full vigour, like a young
Hercules, to crush at one blow the Hydra-evils which
it was fated to destroy. But how abortive did it ap-1
pear : what a sine viribus infans I how puny a bant-
ling ! It could not even be aided by the smooth
speeches of the Noble Earl. The relief to Ireland,
if afforded at all, must be afforded speedily. It was
not only the wish of every man who had a proper
regard for the interests of the country, but it was the
duty of this House, commissioned as it was to watch
over the welfare of the people, to adopt such measures
without delay; and he called upon their Lordships
to do so, if they would save the empire and gratify
the people. At an earlier period of the evening, they
had heard from a Noble Lord (the Lord Chancellor)
the expression of the public opinion with respect to
the question of Catholic Emancipation. That Noble
Lord had told the House that that question was now
more generally disapproved of than it had been for
many years. He (Lord Holland)thought that the Par,
liament was the Representative of the public opinion.
The House of Commons, although it had some years
ago rejected that question, had recently passed Bills
recognizing it, which they had sent up to this House.
(The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, across the table, 66 By
a mere majority.") The Noble Earl said by a mere
majority. Since when was it that the Noble Earl had
learned to despise mere majorities? He could re-
member, indeed, and he was sure the Noble Earl
did not forget, that after keeping the House there
during a whole summer, for the purpose of passing a
Bill, he had retracted it because it was voted for by
a mere majority; but this was not the ordinary prac-
tice. At least it would be recollected, that if the
supporters of that question were now in a mere ma-
jority, they were in a minority before—(Hear). But
the Lord Chancellor thought fit to stand up in his
place and say that the people of England had for-
merly entertained, but had now repudiated the Ca-
tholic question. Did the votes of the House of Com-
mons, then, or the Lord Chancellor speak the sense
of the people? Or had the Lord Chancellor got the
votes of the House and the opinions of the people
into Chancery ?—(A laugh.) It would be a strange
theory if it should be pretended that the language of
the people were to be learned from the Throne or a
Lord Lieutenant, or, in their default, from a Lord
Chancellor. The concession, of which so much
was said, would be made to one-fourth of the
people ; and let it be remembered, when Catholics
were charged with a want of loyalty, that no man',
could stand up in either House of Parliament and say,
6' I am a Catholic, and I have as much loyalty as
any man." He then quoted the opinion of Mr. Pitt,
who, though he was no great authority, had said that
the power of the country could never be consoli-
dated until the Catholic question should be passed,
and reproached the persons who availed themselves
of the weight of that statesman's name, if weight it
had, with not practising his pre:epts. But to come
to the question before him, if they were to be guided
by public opinion, the public opinion of Ireland has
been pretty strongly expressed in favour of this mea-
sure. The proposition of his Noble Friend would
much improve the Bill ; but still it would be suscep-
tible of considerable amendment.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that his view with
respect to this clause was this. A compulsatory
clause was important, and he thought would be ne-
cessary. But then, let their Lordships onderstand
what he meant by compulsion. Did he mean to
compel the clergy to take less than their full rights?
No; certainly not. He fully admitted the right of
the Legislature to interfere with Church property as
with any other, but then it must be done fairly and
equitably. And if any species of public property were
found too inconvenient, he should say they had a Tight
to commute it, on giving a fair equivalent. With
respect to the success of the measure, much must
depend upon the activity and zeal of those who were
to act under it, but he was persuaded that it possessed
the elements of much practical benefit.
The House then divided, when there appeared
For the Compulsory Clause - - 11
Against it 51

Majority against the Clause - —to
The House then went into a Committee. Some of
the clauses having been gone through, the House
resumed, and the Bill was ordered to be recommitted
on Friday next.
Their Lordships adjourned at Half-put Twelve.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. DAWSON presented a Return of the number of Debtors
confined in Scotiand.—Ordered to be printed.
The House was summoned to the House of Peers to hear the
Royal Assent siva', by Commlesion, to several Public and Pri-
vate Bills.—(See the Lords' Report}
The St. Petersburgh Marriage Bill went through a Commit-
tee. The Report was received, and ttie Ball read a third thile.
On the motion of Mr. Wasson-Hottrou the House resolved
itself into a Committee to consider of the Acts relative to New-
foundland. The Hon. Idember, in the Committee, moved cer-
tain Resoludons for altering and consolidating the Lawi relative
to Courts of Justice in that Coloni.
The • Resolutions were agreed to, and the Report ordered to be
received to-morrow.
Mr. WYNN moved the Order of the Day for the further
consideration of the East India Mutiny Bill. The Bill was, on
the motion of the Right Hon. Ge,ptkman, recommitted, and
several clauses were added to it, and the Report was ordered to
be received to-morrow.
The Irish Linen Manufacturers Bill was read a third time. Se-
veral clauses were added to the Bill, which smatheti passed.
PENITENTIARY.
,Mr. PEEL reminded the Ititise that there was a
general impression abroad that sickness, to an alarm-
ing extent, pervaded the prison of the Penitentiary.
A great means of checking disease would be, by
giving a power of making an experiment which-had
not yet been tried, and which, in his opinion, would
be most desirable. He meant the power of remoT-
ing the prisoners who may require it to a fresh air.
The power of this temporary removal was granted its
the other prisons; and, notwithstanding the lateneis
of the Session, he would ask leave, and he was sure
the House would concur with him, to grant the pki-
toners of the Penitentiary the same privilege pos-
sessed by those in the hulks; He accordingly moved
for leave iu bring in a Bill authorizing the temporary
removal of the prisoners from the General Penitentiary.

Mr. M. A. TAYLOR thought it due to the House
to state, that no exertion had been spared in endea-
vouring to remove the malady alluded to. 18 report
had gone abroad that the prison was situated in a
damp and unwholesome place, and that the disease
was caused by the contiguity of the River. This he
denied ; and, from a reference to the history of the
country, it would be found, that when the plague
raged in London, those alone who lived near the river
were exempt from it. What the cause of the malady
may be he was not able to judge; but he was sate-
fled it was not owing to the water. The subject had
agitated the mind of the Public, and particularly of
the higher classes. Of this he was glad, as it %hewed
the interest taken by the higher orders in the comforts
of the poor. The mortality had been unusually great'
last winter. He had himself made inquiries at the

parish of St. James, and the Rector told him that a
greater number of persons had been buried in the
parish in three months than at other periods during
an entire year. The rector of St. George's had made
the same statement. The malady, therefore, was not

owing to the conduct of the prison, hut to the course
of the season. Ile felt much obliged to the Right
lion. Gentleman for his Bill.
Mr. HOLFORI) was sure the disease was not
caused by the situation of the prison. All the medi-
cal men who were consulted were of the same opinion.

Mr. W. SMITH said a few words.
Mr. PEEL thought, that if the sickness were
owing to the situation, the palish in which the Peni-
tentiary was would be equally unhealthy. This was
by no means the case; until last winter that parish
was one of the most healthy in London. The situa-
tion of Toth ill-fields Prison was similar to that of the

Penitentiary, and yet it was perfectly healthy. The
number of sick did not exceed twelve. His decided

opinion was, that the sickness was not owing to any
local situation.—Leave granted to bring in the Bill.