Star.
London, England, 1812-04-14 00:00:00

but which his
fficulti •
agillesding cheers.— (Cries of , his Right Hon. Friend's (the Chancellor of the ts
i cheq6er) retaining his situation, the di
would amount to three millions. It appeared to him, i raisons attonaed with
that, in the great pressure of our affairs, 1
pence: ought now to be postponed ; and be was Mr. YORKE rose to order,— The Hon. Gentle- i labours of which his litic 1 o es 44
Po ; pponents had declare,'
those ex- 1 Order,
‘ order 11
clearly convinced, that it was only by avoiding such , man bad just made one of the moss outrageo.na per- ' their disinclination to share with him ;
sonal attacks on his Rip* Hon. Friend which had superior ta.ent and ability enabled him to fill thic
1 unnecessary expences as these we should be able to i
ever been teard in that House. With respect
.to the ; arduous situation with advantage to hi.; country.
' meet other exigencies which could not be avoided.
justice or propriety of the attack thns made, he -7--- , Mr. PONSONBY agreed with the Hon. Gead,
Mr. PARNELL observed, that the Chancellor of
(Cries of Order!)
I the Exchequer was, in a very few days, to come to : , man, that it was a happy elevation for some of 14
that House, to propose several new taxes; and, in I Mr, PONSONBY rose to order.—[Here the dis. people when the Right Hon. Gentleman succeedo im_ ' order became general, and cries of Pilo., Chair! re- to office, for if that event had not occurred. the lie%
such a state of the codntry, he thought it highly
sounded thro uhout the House; at length Mr. Pon- and Learned Gentleman would not have filkd th
notwithstanding thi
proper to incur such an enormous expenditure as this. I
1 sonby obtained a hearing)— i office which he now holds. With respect to wee
Mr. WHARTON observed, to have built such
66 I call the
.Right Hon. Gentleman' himself to had fallen from his Hon. Friend Mr. Whitbreadi
barracks as those proposed could not have been done
h •
risen to he entirely agreedwith If (• . '
, order, and on this ground, that he having . im, ac any time within the last four years for a less sum
than ilia mentioned. He was persuaded, however, 1 call . .
my Hen. Fiend to girder, did not confine him- Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been pleased a that here the expenditure Would be within the esti- self to that point; but thought proper to advert to recommend his Honourable Friend en gin his wee,
mate. These barracks were to accommodate both other topics, thereby transgressiog the regulations of ante to the compiler of Moore'. Almanac. Wius
1 men and horses -a very desirable object, and one , the Hogue-..(Hear, hear, hear.) I speak this before I were the proofs of national prosperity or of nation's
I which would render them superior to the present high authority, which will contradict me if I should adversity ? Was it proof of the former, that wee
.
Ibe incorrect." two years ago, the Chancellor of the Exclitque
Barracks in' Kingestreet.
The CHteNCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 1 Mr. LUSHINGTON (the Chairman) then &ch. raised a loan, the three per cents, were taken at 7et
observed, the barracks in King-street were not the ' red his epon to be, that Mr. Whitbread had been Was it a proof of prosperity, that hit year they we
of Order. 1 on the same occasion at 69? And was it a proof° per
property of Government ; and their term having ex- i Outti
WHITBREADthen 'nandconies- ' ' that the . - f• -
Aired, they had in fact been ejected, and having no sperity, in present ear, when he
Mr. .
in rose agai , y proposes'
other place in London capable of accommodating so ' sod he had risen some heat and unconsciously at loan, they should not be higher than 59 t Ile Ho,
time hadexceeded limits, f debate.He would .
the . the o. . and Learned Gentleman, wham talking- of the Orden
many horses, Government had been under the neces-
-1 • of however say, that if he was described as having told . in. Council, spoke of them'
with a sort of paiense
1 city engaging them again at All advanced rent of
' £950 for three bears, eltilst other barracks might be . the people that they were to regard the Government warmth, but his Hon. Friend liad *ever charged di
built. He contended, that to build permanent bar- ' rather than Bohaparte, as their enemy, it was a gross Orders in Council as being the occasion of abadharrea
racks at once, would be much less expensive than misrepresentation. Unfortunately, it was too much He had said that the effect of the war was to plat
i •
erecting temporary buildings for the accurnmodetion ' the practice to identify the Government with the Mi- our. engirt relations in such a state that- in the ems
4of soldiers. The having the men and horses in the nister, and convert the fair claims of the formerb to_ ;of a dearth in this country, we could not go to am
..aine .place was certainty an object much to be de- support and attachment, into blindaapprobation of ports on the Continent to find relief Was not
sired', their not being so, had proved a circumstanceour relations with A • * die
: the measures of the latter. Whatever might . the 1 state of .
ymerica affected. most aso
of great inconvenience during the late disturbances in construction put upon his words, he was determined terially by these Orders? A% as the authority VAIN.
the metropolis. ever to speak out in the House of Commons, to con- rica a good authority, when she demands, as the '
teal no part of the truth, and to lend no helping price of restoration to a rood understaucling, there.
Mr. WHITBREAD spoke to what he considered .
handmore to the delusion, any than to the ruin of peel 'of these Ordere ? The Right Honourable Gee-
as the unconstitutional practice, of separating the col- !
dier from the citizen; a practice which he should e
tue people. He knew' nothing more likely to prove I tleman then went to the more immediate celestial
i
always consiJer as one sepia to with danger to the
destructive to the safety and greatness of the people before the Hone:, which was, whether the immersethan the prevalence of a different doctrine. He did sum of £182,000 was neeess try to be voted for eke
country. Dees the Right Hon. Gentleman (conti-1
i *not confound the visitations of Psoviteemetwi th the maintenance in barracks of 350 men auJ hoses, oc
nueif Mr. Whitbread) through whose rash and pre-
decre,:s of France, or the measures of the Right Ho- whether it was expedient, under the eretent cir'cunr.
poster ous measures, distress is new spreading over
nourable Gentleman. But he knew that thousands stances of the couocry, to compel the Administra.
every part of the country, the loom is rendered
useless and the cries ef hunger are stifled by the _
of manufacturers were now 'nut of employmeet, and tion to go on with a limited scale of expenditure
point of the ba ,
that tens of thousands were now working at reduced for some years ? What was the state of the
yonet, seriously imagine that he can
wages, which scarcely sufficed to procure them sub- diture ? Every year it incmsee. When the Hon.
go on three years longer, on his present system of in-
sistence. Was he, when he declared this, telling Gentleman who had spoken lately ( Mr. Huskisten )
creasing expenditure, and decreasing resources.— the hungry man that he had no bread ? He knew filled the office of Secretary. the expenditure was 21
What consequences can finally resins from a paw-
that an unreformed House of Commons had appro- millions more than the preceding years, and thisyear
verince in such counsels, but that we must-finally
..
ved of all the proceedings of the Right lion. Gen, the excess would be 30 millions. Was his Honourable
conclude a peace with France, from the 'very neces-
tleman, and of all his Orders in Council ; but he Friend to be blamed for desiring the House not to in.
cities of our situation ? I do believe that many great knew too, that the people and the merchants out of crease the burthens of the country. What effect new
and glorious opportunities heve been lost of accom. the House were, in every part of the kingdom, of these cavalry stables to produce on the enemy? Wcram
plishing this event, and I believe the effect of our very different opinions. Was not this table already Bonapaite be terrified into subjection by them? WWI
present system of policy will finally be to compel us covered with Petitions that daily multiplied ; and he , the troopers be better disciplined and become bu
to purchase 'a peace by rkubmission—( Hear, hear,— indeed abandoned all his patriotism when he stated soldiers because they.had an expensive stable for*
from both sides.) It is my persuasion too, that this this !—As to what he had said with respect. to peace, horses? With respect to the circulation of ittgamen-
disastrous period is not far distant, unless a great how was it possible for him to speak positively as to torypapers to which the Hon. Gentleman hadalhal4
and entire change be made in that policy. As to the fitness of the present moment ? but how could the Gentlemen opposite would not circulate inflames
the extension of the barracks in London, I can see no any time be found appropriate unless the experiment tory papers—(No, no, from the Ministerial sidel;.-
good reason for the proposed alteration ; if the man were made ? Would the Right Hon. Gentleman, "Ohno ! they will not issue any such papers. M
and the horse have heretofore been separate, for looking back to that history in which be was so well Church was never in danger, •said bfr.Petceval ;Ile
what purpose are they to remain so no longer ?
Again, with respect to the barracks at Bristol, read, pronounce it to be his opinion that we were hand-bills have given great offence to that Honottrabk het niter likely to obtain such desirable conditions of Gentleman ; but I have read other hand-bills teluallr
under an ostensible reference to the French prisoners, peace as might have been obtained at many former offensive circulated at Manchester—bas the Hon. ant
who I heartily wish were all out of the country, I re. periods ? ( Bear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentle- Learned Gentleman cast his eyes over any or nee
member that this was the place where the grossest man boasts of our being the great and only barrier papers ? If he has, will. he say that none of Om
abuses have been discovered in the Barrack Depart- to Bonaparte's desire of universal dominion. On pipers have a tendency to irritate—to Mame tbs
Ment) and where, in 'fact, it has been proved, that this point dive could be no dispute: and why were muds of the people ? Yet these papers are circulated
what had been called barracks, were nothing more we so ? because it was the policy of. the authors of by persons who call themselves the friends of the 'Ad.
than a number of tottering old houses, without a this and the preceding war had made it so ; had first ministration." As to the resolution for granting&
window or a roof among them—( Hear, hear.) On made Bonaparte Consul for life, and afterwards, in , sum for barracks, he scarcely thought there wasps
these grounds, I certainly shall oppose the Resolutions. alliance with his own talents, had made him Empe- man who wished to vote it, or thought it prudent
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ror, and enabled him to trample upon every hostile increase the expence of building at the. present..
said, he supposed the Honourable Gentleman had state. The same errors and fallacies were still cir- merit, and he hoped in that opinion he should WINO
1 woi kcd himself up iii the warmth of debate to say, culated, and still believed. One day Prussia was said on coming to a vote, in a large majority.
i what he was convinced lie would not say in any place to be arming against France; on another, she was Mr. HUSKISSON agreed with the ideas dila
in a cooler moment, namely, that the measures of described as uniting her force to that of France to as- Right Hon. Gentleman who)eed just sat dowse
Government had produced the present state of scar- 1 sist in crushing the only independent state remaining the question immediately before the Home. If es
1 city—(dear, (rear.) Did the Flonour'able Gentleman ion the Continent. It was his duty then to ask the House was prepared, without document of any tale
think this statement, that Government had placed the I people to be misled no longer by the fatal policy of to say that £133,500 should be granted for bare&
manufacturers in a state of starvation, would go to Ministers ; and he would ask the Right Hon. Gen- fur MU men and horses, and that accommodathialt
alley and cool the ferment among the people ? (Hear, ' tleman himself not to become the victim of his own them could not be more economically procured, thgb
hear.) Did the Honourable Gentleman mean to say infatuation, by bringing the country to the end of its and not otherwise, they would vote for it. He p
1 that it was the conduct of Government which had resources. He believed the period must soon arrive posed that this part of the estimates should be p•
produced scarcity ?—(Loud cries of Hear, hear.)— when this would be the case. He should be sorry if poned ell the House should b e satisfied on this hod.
If he Old say so, he must go so far as to say that any thing had fallen from him that might bear an in- Mr. WHARTON thought any delay unnecessaie
HEAVEN was offended, and had by its avenging hand terpretatton foreign to his intentions, Jeut he had No farther information could be furnished on the see
blighted our harvest, and withheld the fruits of the i deemed it an imperative duty to enter into this avowal jeci ; and the military department had declared ifs
earth.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Gentleman .of his sentiments,' barracks indispensably necessary.
said, many glorious opportunities of obtaining
a 1 The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Mr. ROSE contended, that as the Orders in Coe.
peace had been lost. This he (the Chancellor of the declared, that every offensive impression which the cif did not apply to the Baltic, they could not fun
Exchequer) was certain of, that declaration, coming Hon. Gentleman had made, more on the feelings of the smallest effect on the article of grain.
from such a man as the Honourable Gentleman, of his Hon. Friends than on his own, was completely Mr. WHITBREAD said, the Learned. Gentle'.
our inability to continue the war, was not Vie way to removed. He had certainly not attributed to the man (Mr. Stephen) had adverted to the " renorrany
obtain a glorious peace—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Honourable Gentleman that which he imagined him manufacturers •he wool! ask, whether Mr. %;_edogin•
Gentleman was ready on every occcasioh to hold out to have done. As to the question immediately before wood, or those 'Gentleman from Birmingham wt.
with
to the People that it was him (tlse Chancellor of the the House, he held it to be desirable that in populous the Chancellor of the Exchequer had honou.rednorsinult
Exchequer) who had reduced them to starvation by . towns the soldiery ought rather to be kept apart, than repeated interviews, were classed among the g .
l to.
his Orders in Council, whilst it was well known that to be quartered on the people. The Hon. Gentle- manufacturers the Learned Gentleman alludedas,
in consequence of those Orders in Council, our trade man had again alluded to the Orders in Council; The Petitioners who had come to Governroene. 1_
had very much, increased in the last two .years.— but could they be said to prevent the importation of also to Parliament, complained that they wero
(Hear, hear.) Was it not probable that all the evil corn, - when it was generally known that, notwith- state of starvation, arisin from the Wait of _ employ
we had suffered would have fallen with double force standing their operation, eight millions had been merit, in consequence of which they were ws
upon us, if these Orders had not been adopted ?Was
to which they wet
paid last year for foreign corn imported ? The fact money to buy food, a situation . ~
....
it the Honourable Gentleman's patriotism which was, that the scarcity was felt as severely in France reduced in consequence of the Orders r HoMr.,
pointed out to him the propriety of holding out Go-
p . at present as in England. He had observed it stated, that the tight
dew Psi-
vernmenr, and not Bonaparte, to the people, as the Mr. WHITBREAD explained. able Gentleman (M. Rose) had to some of. .
cause of the hardships they inevitably suffered ? The Mr. STEPHEN held in his hand a paper address- tioners who waitedr upon him from Brr _
Honourable Gentleman might be persuaded such ed to a Member of that House, purporting to be' compared France and England to two nwo.eff
was his duty—but, in his opinion, suck doctrine, in- signed by " A Staffordshire Potter," in which he 1 their neck in water, who must try which 6.°72
stead of obtaining us a glorious peace, would have attributed the present scarcity to the Orders in Coun- could stand the longest without being drowned._ 101
the effect of laying us prostrate at the feet of Be- cif. Would the House or the Country be deceived (Mr. Whitbreed) could not suppose that"'
naparte. Instead a seeking for peace by such means by those misrepresentations of ignorant manufactu- ' Hon. Gentleman had so expressed himse!__.... auk
be thought it was the duty of every man to use his rers, but that they were countenanced by the conduct Mr. ROSE said he bad been vest' nrig__.‘
utmost efforts to oppose an enemy, who, if he could of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite ? He, therefore, . with in the business alluded to. He confessed.
__,....tnas7:
once subdue us, would tyrannize triumphant over the did agree with those who thought the Pehlic should ' such comparison had fallen from him7ClAugn;laii
rest of the world.--Hear, hear.) be set right in point of fact—that the Politic should br ' denied lie had treated the distresses

.
Mr. WHITBREAD.—,, If I were in any other
place than the House of Commons, I would ask the
loudest and the warmest of tlio.e who have cheered
and supported the t-peech which has been just heard,
whether it was not replete with the most gross mis-
representation ? The triumph, therefore, which the
Right Honourable Gentleman and his partizans
appeared to indulge, was a triumph not over me,
but over the Right. kionourable Gentleman's inven-
tion. Oh Ito be sure, the House of Commons is a
fine place : nothing but fair discussion, free debate,
and open doors; and yet it appears, that on this im-
partial stage a political adventurer, by the aid of
little cleverness in statement, or dexterity in. argu:7i
!nem, may arrive at that eminence, because nobcdy
else will take it, from which he shill dictate what
be will to this House, and find eves his rxiisrepresen;

Jut _ that
know thlit those who carried on war agAnlst the I Birmingham Petitioners with -any thing like
larders in Council could not argu= them they Mr. BARING agreed that the Orders in
came to be discussed—that it was French (p;r.t and • had no immediate effect in producing the senseq
French argument which encouraged the propagation food, though it was equally true, May by MO!:
of those unparalleled publications with which the those Orders in Council, the manutactuters,ll;
Newspapers teemed, and which were natal to the priced of the means of purchasing food, were,„ls.
peace of Englishmen and privileges of mankind, and tore them in abundance. Every clung, in kie._,7o .—;
the forerunners of tumult and insurrection. In de- depended on economy in our expenditume and
fending the Orders in C:>uncil, the Hon. Gentleman fore he was against the present grans-
adverted to the predictions of the Hun. Gentltman • Mr. FULLER considered this was a define
(Mr. Whitbread) : his services might be beneficial barracks, but some way or othertheOrders isUire
to the Editor of Moore'a Almanac ; he might foretel were lugged in by the head and shoulders:
that there mtliht be a fall of snow in December, or recalling the decrees of Bonaparte was all n:7l
sultry weather in Autumn, for there be might chance . his only object being to get sugars from Bed'
to be sighre but in his (Mr. Stephen's). experience, when be had them, would say, " here thellM.,
he was the most unfortunate of all false prophets.-- spite of your Orders in CounciL" He ralked to
He cosigfAwlated the country en the happy 'volt of colonies and populism, wiles he bad wg
. .
• •