Star.
London, England, 1814-12-02 00:00:00

PALIAMEATAir riivcEzialt#.

nes: to appease. 'rbe regulations respecting the
fisheries were another subject of ill will on the part of
America, and were no less incompaible with the id-
terms of this country, which Appeared tobe carrying
on the war merely for the - of aggrandizement.

, the Promissory Notes Suspension, tha Neural
Bagqing,'the Foreign Colonial Ships, the East India Goods, the
sigh Glue Duties, the Irish Woollen Importation, ind the Irish
Spirits Warehousing, Bills.
The LORD CHANCELLOR presented a Bill for introducing
Into the Laws of Scotland the Trial by Jury in civil cases, which
*as read a first time, and ordered to be printed.
The Earl of EGREMONT said, that unless, •as he hoped,
tome other Noble Lord would anticipate him, he would, soon
after the recess, move for an Address to the Prince Regent, re:
sating that the Minutes of the late Con ct-martial on Colonel
, together with the Sentence and consequent Proceedings,
bid before the House.
FORISIGN NEGOCIATJONS.
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE, adverting. to
the notice which he had given, regretted that circum-
itancea had occurred which induced him to waive,
or the present, his purposed motion. Every circum-
twice had tended to convince him of the necessity of
an. enquiry into those matters to which he had called
the attention of their LOrdships; but when he per-
ceived the very thin attendance, he felt hiMselicorn-,
peUed to postpone it. He had flattered himself that '
the magnitu4saLtbe question would have induced
Ap adequace.as: mothlage. He• had, 'however, been
,
.Feiptiointed. rut triough he shoUld not then enter
et &r ms. into the subject, he could not refrain, in his
Own !unification, from stating.brielly that he intend.
ed to move an humble Address to the Prince Regent,
tapressive of the hope which that House fslt, that
under his Royal Highness's Government the re-
sources of this country had not been applied to sub-
sidize Sweden, for the purpose of subduing the gene-
rOu.s tpirit of a brave people, and starving them into
a surrender of their liberties and independence.—
That the engagements which had been entered into
with the Eine of Sicily and Naples were not so ut-
terly contradictory as that one of them should have
been subsidized to enable him to make a hostile at-
tack upon the other ;that no sanction had been given
to the transfer of Saxony.; and that the British Go-
'
1 vernment were not participators in any measures cal-
culated to oppose theinidependence of Poland. That
no lure of false ambition, or acquirement. of nett
territory, should induce. a British Minister to make
undue sacrifices in bivour'of Hanover, who. after all
'that could be doni in that way, would never be able
to resist an attack from her more powelftd neigh-
bours, while it would have a perpetual tendency to
this country, on her account, in continental:
wars. He would further add, an humble suppliel.
tion to the Prince Resent, that he would' pleasito•
recall to the minds of his Ministers the Declaration
made by the Allied Powirs on their entering Paris.
IL thpp appeared that the illustrious Confe#racy was
beat on repressing injustice, anal on its securing, on
a new and solid loundation, the blessing! oi'' Ream;
fmedorn, and indepeude,nce to all misnentoil,, Usish
was the substance of what he had intemied to larinj,
before the House that' day. He thought the subject.
worth the serious. attention of the lestslature ; and'
he should, soon after the recess, taring the subjet'
,
e.gat, e antore the House. .
Lord GRENVILLE expressed regret that a Mo-
tion of such importance could nut be discusteil ; and
intimated that he should oppose the Motion intended
;to be made for Adjournment.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought it tutneces.

HOUSE OF LORDS, DEC. 1.
Royal Assent was given by Cannily'lon to the 14,500,000
the Etchequer lh Aldi, the M.h Peace Ptesertation
• . s-

...silk. : purpose ,
These were pressing points for the consideration ofl
Parliament, and while they presented themselves bey
could not consent to an adjournment of so unusual
a length.
4-,,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL could not forbear
taking notice of some parts of the speech of the Noble.
Earun. . Many considerations must, as the Noble
e4rd had obeffved, have reference to the external re-
lations; and 'with that view it was, whether with re-
gard to America, or to the general affairs of Europe,
that he thought the public interests would be best
consulted by the adjournmeet he had proposed ; and
the Noble Baron, if he bad given himself the trouble
to recollect, would have found that the term of ad.
journnsent was by no means unusual. He should not
then eater at large into the various topics introduced
by the Noble. raor4 ;00nk, re could not avoid a •:',e.
t6erice to ivhat had been saidnn the subject of public
credit—he meant the suspension of call] payments at
the Bank. It was an act dt fearful consequence no
doubt—it *as an act, however, in which the Noble
Baron had the credit of participating ; an act to
which, not only the credit, but the ultimate safety of
die country was really owing. It was founded on
necessity, .nd only necessity could justify it. His
Lordship begged explicitly to disclaim, on the part of
Government, any idea.of deferring the consideration
of the various important topics to which the Noble
Lord had alluded. He felt that most, if not aft of
them, required serious discussion ; but he felt that this
was not the dm., consistently with the sense he enter-
tained of the prosperity of the country, and its con-
nections with ocher Powers, to answer the questions
which bad arisen respecting plans of spoliation: and
'aggrandisement. With respect to the maintenance
et a British force on the Continent, he did not hesitate
'to avow that it was kept N.') for the advancement and
security of objects in which. the real interests of the
.tonntry were mere concerned than in any other, with
the single exception of internal safety. With regard
,to the Negotiations then going. on, they were so in-
terwoven and complicated, that it would be extremely
difficult to allude to ohe specific object without in-
' (tieing-others in tte consideration. for the conduct
tersued by Ministers throughout the negociati ins, he
ad only to observe, that they were perfectlY aware
1 t their great responsibility, and he entreated the
use to do them the' justice ofs believing, that they
tile, at the proper peribd, be ready.to meet every
barge which might be preferred against them, and
justify the whole of their proceedings. One impu-
tatton called', losvever, fore clear and decided denial,
and he deemed it his duty to declare, that; at-no mo.
mein. had the Coveenzttenrcirthis country- entertained
any idVa• of aggrandisement at the eel:Rosa. of other
Wwiti. 'ire-as zed` merely welt we` Wad' A right-to
ask, suid-Whirtias strictly accordant with our means,
our vieuis.,.otiritlits, and our security. He enereat-
"ett their Loidsitipitta reflect that the great questions
'at issue were-not tube canvassed one by one, but that
they ought-to be viewed' as a whole, in order to form
a• far ground-work fbr the decision ot Parliament,
1 and when die roper season shottlct present itself he
small ink Artnk fmm any enquiry which nfght be
',uted; His' Lordship crmcluded by declaring
he ty

Lek illrbAd nor proposed tt,„ adjournment under and
hitith of personal convenience, but under an impres-
bibn that it would' be inconsistent with the stint of
Ministers, as well as with• die best-interests of Grro
and'her Allies, to enter intb au's' discussion.

Lap under the present circumstances, to troable
their Lordships with more words than barely to,,
move—" That the House do then adjourn to the 91h4
,of February." •
- •

Lord GRENVILLE objected to the Moticn, . __ __ _•..., to e 5.... ....___
especially as no reason whatever had been .urgea' in :asitifour theriecesiary grourttli; camel andifibtiaoes by-
which their conduct had• been directed, being fully
answer to the statement made by his Niibl..: IPriead
,t ( Lord Donoughm a ore). Their Lordships sboure- known.
eda
llect under what circumstances they had' been cal. The Duke of SUSSEX was ready to admit, that
peculiar allowance was to be made at the present ex-
dto meet. And though the peril of that time ap-
peared to have been removed, let
le
vital importance still remained. He alluded to the
uthei points of ariordirsary crisis for what had fallen from the. Noble
Earl, and he felt real satisfaction at that part of his
. speech which assured the House that the Govern-,
recent proceedings, not only'on the Coritinetif, but.in
America. It had been said that a vet must smite-
merit had not been influenced by any views of aggran- ,
;times be thrown over the acts of Govan
mem. But idisement. But while Ministers refused to enter into
.explanations, he was justified in maintaining that
if .a v,eil were necessary to disguise our (()reign pro- 401,
ceedings,atone should cover our internal situation.— - - Noble Lord was at full liberty to express his
-- ,
:Theintertot of the merchant, the mechanic, the agri- ' ' and feelings on the grand and leading points
avitich Were publicly known to be at issue in the pen.
cultuxist, and the landholder, required the immediate
• jog- negociattons. It was, however, rather remark-
ntention of Parliament, to prevent, the evil* whiali
• • )e, that whilst the conferences were protracted, this
!threatened them all. In such a condition of things
country should be called'up.on, according ta the treaty
at was the duty. of Parliament. to interlere with us
i of peace, to restore colonies within the period of three
,wisdom and authority. Upon the question ofeislolic
Credit, and the Circulation of our Currency, there and six months. He could not help observing, that
on the treaty of Sweden, by which the island of Goa-
could only be one opinion of its magnitude. Was it
tharou‘der these pressiug fir- daloupe was ceded to that power, the aboon of the
;fit, said his Lordship,
Slave Trade was, according to the 4th article, made
icumstances, the Parliament should' adjourn, merely
an express and positive condition ; and yet, when the
for the convenience of Ministers ? The Sinking Fund
had been the stable and the only hope of redeeming colony was restored to France, that stipulation was
altogether lost sight.of. The rnociations,.unques-
!public credit; yet that sacred source had profaaely
!anti
shamefully, been viatted. -nit measures lately amiably, involved many objectsthe highest impor-
pursued by Ministers had not only thwarted the tance. Among these objects were, Portugal, Sicily,
W
!efficient operations of that measure, but"had loaded Saxony, and Poland. ith respect to Sicily, he
should only express a hope that an old ally of ours
the country with &debt which nothing, he feared,
would .be able to rempve. He would Instance the would not suffer, in its most valuable possession, on
aecountof its steady fidelity to tot and 'with regard
maintenance of 75,000 troops on the Continent in a
time of profound peace; ao,aehot was worse, those to Poland, he had at all times, and • did at that filo.'
s
anent, consider it as an object dearest to his heart; and
troops were likely to be ensislo/pd;not for thareedam.
dearest- to the noble' and (Notified • feelings of this
•of the Continental States, but 'their enslavement.:—
country, which had never consented to the unjust par-
With respect to America, the war'aikain.st that eolith
. tationazit'its territory. He sinterelttrussed that some
try preceding its separation frOm thoi, was thought
plan would be carried into effect, calculated to confer
smpolitic. 'What must it be at present, when Atnea
r
sodependenct • and happiness upon theodistracted and ica is of more than double its. lousier force ? 13ut,.
oppressed people of thareotintry, andthat, while the
putting the comparative forces out of the question,
negodiations were contitmed, 'the spiritolthe great
every thing which had been urged by this couuuy
Sobieski, one of its ancient sovereigns, wtstsld influence
against America WAS impolitic and wrong. • Nothing
the Comical Of the Sovereigns. of Europe. and rteal
; icould be more impolitic, unjust, or extravagant, than
to their minds, that his gallatttintarposition and erer-
the demand that A neutral independent State should
tions had routed the Turksetflottanywalls of Vienna,
be established fox the Indians, intermediate to the
and driven theft front the
English and American possessions. The evil curse. of 'Germany. •
queaces were obvious. Without any possibli benefit, The Earl of 1)0 HS/ORE opposed the 'sea-
hither to America or England, the neutral territoryy i°ollmont- He attention of the House to
would become a receptacle for desperadoes from al ..o•actual state She caftan"; t 6 its heavy taxation,
pod its agsaeidtural wants,- all- of *Mel) required
countries. That proposition was inevitably calcu-
I laud to
outrage dos fteii2n., yr:lkb it was our bag, . prompt and'silutary re al Mt' COlatitit 11114
OF

saver of Ministers to every question and 411 every sub.
jest was, " this is not the proper time, for Congress Is
deliberating." Whether the enquiry related to
finance or to agriculture, the reply Was—it must de-
pend dpon the deliberations of Congress. This was
letting thC eat out of the bag, and in fact stating, that
they were ignorant of what Was passing and of wit.tt
was intended, and had no communication to make.
The manner in which money bills passed was most
ettraordinary. They were hurried over almost with-
ont notice. The House was not even lighted up, and
frequeSttly had more the appearance of the hall of the
Inquisition than of a Sitting of a British Parliament,
from its gloominess and from the little publicity with
which its proceedings were conducted. The Noble
Earl had observed, that this was the usual period of
adjournment, no former period was, however, like the•
present—thecountrybAd never been in such a conjunc-
ture; and therefore no argument could be founded
on precedent. He was sure that the Noble Earl
would mat assert that within his recollection there had
existed a crltfr*hen the exertion of the greatest aca
tivity arid wisdom was so necessary as at present...-.
He was well aware hob; vexations it was to Ministers,
who were occupied in parcelling out kingdoms, and.
assisting in the depositions of Sovereigns, to be found
to descend to such trifling subjects as the finances
and agriculture of this country. It was, therefore,
the more necessary for Parliament to be ready to give
advice and stimulate them. If there was no other
reason, hisslaistd wish for the continuance of the bit.
ting of Parliament, if it were only to enable Ala-
lusters to profit by the etperience and talents cf his
INoble Friend, which could not but be highly. useful
'to them, ai well with respect to diplomatic affairs is
CO general subjects. Was it set necessary that the
great Council of the Nation should be sitting when
titrch great changes were taking place on the Conti-
, nefft—when dectaratioas of Sovereigns of the most
'Momentous import, might be expected—when it was
'asserted that a Monarch had been dethroned, with
the consent of Great Britain ? The King of &ulna'
'had not only been fo: ci?ly deprived of his cr own,
but orders had been issued that he should nut in fu-
ture be prayed for in the churches. No able peliti.
clan—no honest Englishman could consent to rhea
' apoliations which were rrojectcd. The consequences.
of them would be a disturbed state of Europe instead
of the permanent peace Which had been hoped for,
and the necessity of our maintaining a large military
restablishment. Yet in these circumstances Ministers,
already overburdened with responsibility, scorned and
despised the advice of Parliament, declared they had
.' farther need of its ail when it had passed the Tax
Dina, and that its advice was bcneath their notice.'.
On these grounds he considered the proposed ad-
journment far too long.
The motion was then agreed to without a division,
and the House adjourned to the .9th of February.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Cleared Ttroluto re, lb allialon to some hints Whirl' be had
thrush). out on a fortiwrevening respecting the better regulation
et Hackney Coaches, wished to be understood as recommending
some provision in the amended Bill, for placing the nutuhers
upon white tickets (isin the Fiai-rgi in Paris) triain the
A Bill to enable the Union Society to grant Annuides on Sur-
vivorship was brought f i and read a ern dine.
Mr. Serjeaat BUT moved for a return of the number of Pri• '
toners confined for Debt in the King's Bench Prison, on the Inch
July 1812, lel s;and 1814, and those in custoly int the ht Dc-
ember, 1814. His object in moving was, after the Recess, tb
poutrose some altessatltin inthe law tor their relief, so as to give
Mime security, to the tradesman. At the time the Bill passed, lie
was strongly impressed with the conviction that it *as aqui woo-
f° trade. In 1)1111)0)mm/ to make an attention, he would taias
ecare to distinguish tft real unfortunate Debtor !rum the frautlu-
*se one.
/ Mr. Alderman AILTIC4NS spoke to a stmilar effect.
I Mr. HORNER declared, that hews, convinced of the utihtr
pf the present hill.
The motion *u agreed to, as were others for the number of
Oboe discharged, the sums fer which they wore discharged, actl`

Mr. Aklerniab C..SMITH moved the second reading of the
London Bread Repeal Bill.
The SPEAKER saki, this being a local Bill, the other unto
could not be proceeded in without the regular notice.
Mr. Alderman C. SMITH bad no wish to press the 3W. He
;would move that k should be primed.
The SPEAKER observed, that helve( dm nature of a pri-
vate BM, the Hee. Member might gel k printed on his own at.
count.
Mr. PONSONBY asked, whether k was tke Weldon et MI.
viscera to disembody the Militia littera& this and the met Meet-
ing of Peritianwnt
Me CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not pre-
pared to answer that question.
Mr. PONSONBY then gave notice, that if they remained em.
bodied at the Meat*, he should tube* a motion on the subject.
Mr. BARING, in rekreuce to a kien to bpain, asked if the tact
were so 1 and the reason why certain Papers ordered had not
been laid on the table?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that thi
Papers had 'to pass the Auditor's (NW. There was no founda-
tion for supposing that any loan had been made to Spain.
In answer to a question from Mr. Witt , whether two
of the vesseb which had been seat out to Canada In frames had
tx. been 'eV

Mt. C.ROIERit stewed, that there was no foundation for the
supposition of the Right Hou. Gentleman.
Mr- WHI tBREAD, however, moved fir copies of any Cor.
respondence which may have taken place on this subject.

PRINCESS CHARLOTTE OP WALES.
i Mr. MARTIN desired to ask the Chancellor of
the Erchequeri whether any establishment had been
tired for her Royal Highness the Princess Charlotte
orWales, pursuant to a minute of the Treasury which
Out been Made on__Ae subject
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER

per

.nv ‘..L-acam...c.s.L..vit of the LXCHEQUER
replied, that a separate establishment had been provi-
ded for her Royal Highness, but that since her Ito) al
,fighacat No been taken into the Prince Regent's
establislunierthe separate one had ceased.
~Mr: 13 wished to know how the £7OOO per
tbtttirn, w . had been voted for her Royal High_
was of ?
The CHAAIerf,LOR 011ie EXCHEQUER.
tea
To her itilipll'Highnives it is issued to her own
asuret**
CONDSKITHZ NAVAL WAR HI NORTH AKIRICA.
Ells in rising to move far Papers con-
Ntiff' the consiict of the &rill War against
e Una! States of America, &dam* that it was
The
of Ms %Mention, in what he should, sit that evening,
eutut ist‘o any discussion of did resucipie of dm
r•

war generally. He was happy to think, that what-
ever
differences may have at a former period existed
in that Heine on topics connected with the state of
our relations with America and the grounds of the
war, these differences had vanished since the repeal of
the BrieisfeOrders in Council. He was one of those
who, after that measure had been resorted to, consi-
dered the Americans as the aggressors—(Hear, hear!)
whatever might have been the provocations they had
received to proceed to that extremity. Neither should
he advert !o the extraordinary manner or circumstances
by which particular proceedings arising out of the ne-
gocietioits at Ghent had found achannel of publication.
A al ty neuld come for entering into that disscussion
—a discussion which would be of greater or less im-
iMportance in proportica as the final issue of that ne-
gociation may gratify or disappoint the hopes that
were entertained from it. The object of, his motion
would met clear of both these subjects, because,
whatevermay have been the conduct of the Govern-
Meat in these respects, or the opinion that may be
formed of it, 'all persons must feel an interest in the
actual management of the war, even unconnected
with any consideration of the justice of the grounds
upon which it had been uddertaken. His motion em-
braced only the naval conduct of the war against Ame-
rica ; and that branched out into two other conside-
rations—one the naval war on the ocean, and the dis-
tribution of our marine for the destruction of the force
orthe enemy on thatelethent—the other the ptepara-
don and direction of our force upon the Lakes for the
ptotectien of our frontier and the maintenance of a
maritime superiority in that important quarter. It
wield also extend to another subject of no less inte-
rest--the degree or protection which had been affor-
eed to the trade of the country against the cruizers
slid psivateers of the enemy. These were the three
points to which 'his motion would refer, and upon
each of these it was his intention to move for Papers
which would put the House iu possession of all the in-
. formation necessary to enable them to form a correct
ophtion as to the merit of his Majesty's Ministers in
the naval conduct of the war. As to the first point,
it must be a matter of surprise to all who entcrtained
an adequate opinion of the inarit Sate force of this em.
pire, that America should still seem to bal'ance its
naval power, and to hold it at bay bn that element,
frOm which it had all other means of opposition.—
This surprise, wh rtever may be C.e case at present,
was particularly just at the beginning of the war,
because it was well known that cue Americans had a
particular description of naval force, which required
a force Of a correspondent description and character
to be provided to encounter and subdue it ; and be-
cause the probab;lity cf a war bad been long appa-
rent, and ought to have.been guarded against. Mi-
nisters could not deny Cat they had received timely
information upon this subject. When the war, how-
ever, did break out, and when it was to be presumed
that every prep +ration far such an event had been
made that the n.tzure of such a contest and a thorough
knowledge of the means of tile enemy called for,
it came upon the country by surprise, that we had no
ships in our possession cetnpetent to cope and con-
tend on equal terms with those of the enemy.—
Time enough had elapsed to allow of every necessary
preparation being made to provide for this emer-
gency. That advantage had not been taken of the
opportunity thus affcr !ed, formed a just ground of
charge against. those whose duty it was to prepare
and direct the naval force of the country.- It had
already been explained, by the melancholy results
of the contests which had taken place, bow the Ame-
ricans had succeeded in beating our ships at sea.
They carried heavier metal, had stronger vessels of
the same nominal class, and much more powerfully
manned. The complaint of the country on this
head was, that this circumstance had not been fore-
seen and provided against ; and secondly, that when
the fact was ascertained from experience, no effectual
meastoes had been taken to prevent a recurrence of
such disgraces in future. Any Gentleman who
bad attended to the accounts of the different Offi-
cers engaged, must be aware that almost all the cap-
tures from us had been made in the same manner.—
These captures were certainly not owing to any want
of skill or intrepidity in out brave officers and men,
who had in every action displayed as much valour
and heroism as in any of those memorable occasions
in which their maims had been crowned with the
most brilliant and decisive viLtories.—(llear, hear!).
From die stsperier weight of the enemy's calibre, thy
almost at tha of each action, overpowered
their adversaries, and our ships being disabled and
dismasted, were tendered incapable of continuing the
unequal Thu* it was that such repeated dis-
grace was brougln, not upon the navy, for the glory
of that service was qt t to be tarnished, but upon
those who administered' the naval resources of the
-country, arid had providcd suchinadequate means of
upholessig ti,e superiority of the British flag. Whe-
ther this arose from a reluctance to accommodate
themselves totiwnew circumstances of the war, or
whether persima in office having accustomed them-
selves LQ a particular routine, or from whatever other
cause it may have proceeded, it remained for the
*test Honourable Gentleman opposite to explain.—
But from every appearance, as weal as from 'the evi-
dents: Of the fact* to which he bad alluded, it was ob-
./imp, that they had not used that degree of activity
in providing for the changing occurrences of the war,
which the nature and circumstances of the contest
balled for ; that they had not used the necessary
diligence in arming and equipping proper vessels
ro meat the unexpected (if they could have been
unexpected) class of vessels which were to be en-
countered in t!e American seas. He was aware
it had been stated that steps had been taken for this
purpose, by cutting down seventy-fours, and by the
construction of other vessels of a size and equipment
more nearly approaching to the strength a r efficiency.
of the enemy's ships. But it was extre e material
that Parliament should be put in possession of au-
thentic information on this eubject. It was not easy
t 6 frame a motion so as to come at it without,' per-
haps, in some measureLtrenclijog upon the limits, be-
yond which, accotinti of the actual distribution of our
naval force ought tatt*to be divulged. He,was aware
of the difficulty and delicacy that eeisted en (his point,
and had endeatonred 'so to shape ma mddoe, as not
to te quire any disclosure whic h ruk.tlit be itnrious to
and coricquendfUnveyea
the service it saibtibhed,
to the enemy. If be had not sacs eded in his object,
the Right Hon;'eseatleasen would correct or attune
hui motion,
and bit-wait' aerially accede to au

alteration proposed by them, which would not. defeat
the purpose for which he brought it forward. It
could not be denied that such information as he called
for was indispensably necessary, in order that it
should be proved, if it could be proved, that all the
necessary steps had been taken to place his Majesty's
ships of war, as to equipment and other prepara-
tion, on a footing equal to that of those of the enemy.
It was no disgrace, he contended, to make changes
Suitable to the varying circumstances of war. .1 he
greatest military nations owed more perhaps to the
rapid adoption of such improvements as had been
made by other nations than to their mere physical
force or their actual political power. He was afraid
that in this, as well as in other ports, the system of
Government had been defective. Their great error
seemed to be, their having always undervalued the
American force. In consequence of this mistaken
security, the proper force had nut been provided in
time, and by having omitted to adopt such altera-
tions in the constitution of the British force opposed
to the enemy as their established superiority re-
quired, the Government had laid the foundation
Of all those disasters which had occurred during the
war. Accord ugly, one of his moti.:ns would call for
information as to what measures had been taken,
and with what success, to render the British ships, in
adequate equipment and armament, sufficient ti
contend with the Americans. Another of his mo-
tions would call for copies of all memorials, repre-
sentations and remonstrances which had been trans-,
mitted to the Admiralty, the Ministry, or the
Regent, from the different Ports or Corporations of
the United Kingdom upon this head, together with
copies of the answers which had been returned.-.
He came now to the heaviest and most important
charges which he had to make against the Govern-
ment—the want of a sufficient preparation for carry-
ing on the war on the Lakes. In treating this part
of the subject, he should not go into any matter that
could, in the slackest degree affect the character of
any of the naval or military officers employed. Every
man, who felt for the interest of the service, or the
value of character to those who honourably exert
themselves in its support, must be sensible of the pro-
priety of suspending their judgment upon every
question connected with the merits of individual offi-
cers till after the inquiry, which is understood to be
determined on, shall have been brought to a close.—
It appeared that there had been an entire neglect of
the means of carrying on the war in North America.
Every Gentleman must know that the frontier of our
North American colonies consists of a chain of lakes,
for the effectual defence of which it was necessary that
our naval superiority should be maintained, particu-
larly on Lake Ontario. There was one part of that
frontier which would require a land force to defend it
effectually, he meant the post of Niagara. In conse-
quence of the loss of the superiority on the Lakes, thou-
sands of brave lives had been sacrificed and much mili-
tary character lost in that quarter without our having
a secure frontier now in our possession, or the safety
of Canada on that side being provided for. Ontario
was the Like upon which our naval means ought
to have been employed for insuring those objects.—
The protection of Canada depended upon it ; and
when it was considered of what importance that
colony was to the mother-country, what vast pro.
petty belonged to British merchants, centered there,
and, above all, what had been the loyalty of the in-
habitants, who last year had defended themselves
and their country from a formidable invasion of the
enemy, and the recollection of glory connected with
its original acquisition—any of these considerations
would- be enough to induce the House to institute an
inquiry into the measures that had been taken to se-
cure that valuable Province, and to establish our
naval ascendancy. There had been full time enough,
still nothing had been done. The war commenced
in June, 1812. At that time we bad the superiority
upon the Lakes—a superiority which required the
addition of a proper number of seamen only to insure
it for ever. At that period the Americans had no
vessels on the Lakes, they had no naval arsenals,
nor any adequate means of building vessels. All
the facilities for ship building were in our possession
on the northern shores of the Lakes, a vast supply
of timber, and every advantage of deep water. If
the opportunity of availing ourselves of these supe-
rior facilities had been neglected whilst the war might
have been foreseen, something ought to have been
done in the summer of 1812. From the information
he had received, he could assert, that nothing what-
ever had been done during that precious period.—
The intelligence of the declaration of war arrived in
this country in July, 1812. From this date to the
end of the year, not a step had been taken by the
Government, either in the shape of effectual prepara-
tion or wise direction to the persons in authority
abroad—no activity had been exerted, when even the
crew of a single sloop of war would have been suffi-
cient to make Lake Ontario our own for ever. One
sloop of war was demanded for Quebec, but none
had been sent. Was any thing done by direction to
the Colonial Government to build vessels on the
Lakes ? Absolutely nothing. Offers were refused,
and the Comment of Quebec broke off with the ship-
wrights,on account of a sum of £lOOO more being ask.
ed for building of a 36-gun frigate. The Hon. Gen-
tleman admitted, that exertions had been made in the
Medway, with timber brought from Canada, he sop.
posed.—(' Yes;' was answered from the Treasury Bench).
—This cost the country ten times the sum the ves-
sels would have cost in Canada ? What was the
consequences on Lakes Ontario, Erie, and Cham-
plain ? The consequence was, that the frontier on
the first Lake was burnt. It was true that a large
ship had been built, which, he hoped, would enable
Sir J. Yeo to combat effectually with Commodore
Chauncey. On Lake Erie our flotilla, after a gallant
resistance, was compelled to yield to the enemy. A
Court-martial had sat on Captain Barclay, who was
honourably acquitted ; no bla:ne was imputable to
him ; the blame rested with the Government, for
the armament was deficient. He had guns of eight
different calibres; some had no gun-locks, but he
was obliged to fire off many of them with pistols for
want of locks ! This was proved on the Court-mar-
tial. But this was not all; there was a deficiency in
men, for so Captain Barclay stated. With respect
to Lake Champlain, he wished the House to look at
the state of the naval co-operation, when Sir George
Prevost thought that co-operation necessary ; they
would find, fur the reasous before stated, through want
of proper means of annoyance, Captain Downie's life
was sacrificed. He referred to the dispatches in

proof of his assertion ; end asked. to "hose fault'
was these failures tq be ascribed, but W the Govern-
ment at home ? The Honou: able' Gentleman con-
cluded with hoping, that the House would not let.
slip the opportunity of affixing blame where it ought
to attach. He then moved, for an Account of the
Number of Ships, or Vessels of any description, on
Lakes Champlain, Erie, and Ontario, in the sum-
mer of 1812.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
was disposed to concur in the motion, with the ex-
ception of that relating to Captain Barclay, which
involved the character of another Officer. He as-
sured the House, that the Com t-mai tial on Captain
Barclay and Colonel Proctor would be shortly laid
before the House.
Mr. PROTHEROE would reserve what he had
to say until the day bf trial. The answer given I.
his Constituents from the Board of Admiralty was
not satisfactory.
Mr. CItOKER assured the Honourable Gentle.'
man, that when the day of trial came, full and satis-
factory information would be given as to the protec-
tion afforded by the Admiralty Board to commerce.
Mr. MA RRYATT did not think that any Papers
which could be laid upon the table could be so satis-
factory as the statement on Lloyd's Books. From
the commencement of the war down to a very late
period, the captures were 1175, of which number,
373 were re-taken, or given up, leaving 802 in the
hands of the enemy. The Honourable Gentleman
referred to the causes which led to captures, pro-
ceeding, in his opinion, from the number of ships
afloat without licence, and net waiting for convoy.
Blame was not imputable to the Adariralty Board.
At the end of the war, American privateers came
into the chops of the Channel, and captured vessels.
—These were light sailing vessels, and could easily
escape from our large ships. He was induced to
state thus much from his knowledge of the fact, and
being desirous to rescue the Admiralty Board from
any degree of undeserved censure.
Mr. BARING thought. the information of the
Honourable Gentleman did not go much farther than
to admit that the privateers of America came into
the chops of the Channel and carried off our vessels,
and the Admiralty Board had not the ability to step
them.—(Hear, hear).—The Equinoctial gale` alone
cleared the enemy out of the Channel. With respect
to the great number of captures alluded to by his
Honourable Friend (Mr. Marryatt), he did believe
that some exertions had been m4cle by the Admiralty
to prevent them in future. He condemned the pro-
secution of the war on the American Seas; and con-
tended, that if the war had been carried on with vi-
gour, all these captures might have been avoided.—
Such a case of neglect had been made out, that Mi-
nisters could not deny it; and, therefore, he hoped
the House would not separate without passing an
opinion upon it.
Sir J. YORKE thought, that if the Honourable
Gentleman had waited till the information was be-
fore the House, it would have been bettet. The
Papers would shew that the Admiralty Beard were
free from blame.
Sir J. NEWPORT contended that the Honourable
Gentleman ( Mr. Marryatt) had not made out a case
to justify the Board of Admiralty. The merely sail-
ing of the vessels without convoy was no justification.
The motion being agreed to,
Mr. HORNER rose and said, whatever might be I
the ulterior deter mination of the House, he should
persist in pressing his facts upon their consideration,'
for facts he must take them to be it they stood un-
contradicted. He could not have believed that any
set of men could sit quietly under the charges which
he and his friends had found it their ditty to make,
and hug themselves upon the hope of shuffling off their
responsibility for two or three months by an adjourn.
ment—(Hear, hear!) Novel as had been some of
the proceedings of these novel times, nothing had evi r
occurred that mere astonished him than the course
pursued by the Gentlemen opposite upon the present
occasion. But we hid lost the time when men would
trust their own powers of eloquence for a statement
of their case or a vindication of their conduct. Would
it have happened—tie would not say in the days of
Mr. Pitt, for they could not look up se high—would
it have happened in the days of Mr. Perceval—
(Hear, hear!) Would any Minister. possessing the
feelings of a man, sit still and suffer such proceedings
to go without explanation, and such charges without
contradiction ?—(Cisterieefrom the Treasury Benches.)
44 I understand that cheering to be a tardy contra-
diction ; but are we to have nothing more convin-
cing ? I do not advert to the mere silence of the Hon.
Secretary; there are Lords of the Admiralty present,
and I will take the information I have received to be
true, and assume my conclusions to be true till they
are contradicted. But provided Ministers can get
their supply, and have as few debates as possible,
their next object is to get rid of the House of Com-
mons, when such a mass of important matter awaits
its investigation. They say they will wait for the
papers that I have moved for, and offer them as their
justification, but those papers cannot be sufficient for
such a purpose, they must move for more to shew
some additional facts to those that will be elicited by
them, before they can have a complete defence and
justification. They, however, have to exercise a dis-
cretion for themselves ; and I only beg them to con-
sider that this House and the public will sit in judg-
ment upon the charges that I have made, and the way
in which they have answered them." The Honour.
able Gentleman then moved for a return of the elate
of Sir James Yeo's arrival to take the command upon
the Lakes of Canada.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rose.—(Load and continued cheering
.1; um th., opposition.)
He said he was in possession of the means ind infer.
!nation necessary for a defence, but he had rather the.
House should wait for ;he justification of Ministers
from the documents themselves. When the papers
then called for were produced, it would be seen what
those were that were wanting to make out a full and
clear case. He should then only take upon himself
to give a general denial to the charges and assump-
tions of Gentlemen on the other side of the House.
Mr. W. POLE, on rising, observed, that he might
expose himself to the ridicule of the Gentlemen oppo.
site, but no consideration should induce him to sit
still and hear such attacks as had been made by them.
(Hear, hear.) Immediately upon the Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Horner) stating the papers he
wanted, he was informed that they should all be in-
stantly forthcoming except one, which it would have

been injurious to the public service to prodoeta Teem
were a number of imputations liberally thrown out
upon Ministers, and papers moved for with a view to
establU the charges ; and would it have been decor.
ous in them to enter into a justification upon charm
which those vet y papers were intended to prove ? The
proper time for a defence would be, when a case was
made out against Ministers, upon better grounds than
the mere reports or assumptions of the Gentlemen of
the other side; but Ministers were ready to rest their
justification upon the very papers that were to support
the charge. He wondered that the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Homer) should have said so much and assumed
so much on the round of his *barges being uncon,
tradicted, when his Right Hon. Friend had distinctly
denied the iustice of them, and begged the House to
suspend as opinion, until they had before them the
materials necessary to form one. Gentlemen surely
ought not to object the adjournment to Ministers, for
the fact was, that papers relating to some of the trans.
actions had been before the House for some time.--a
Those relating to Lake Erie, for instance, had lain for
months upon the table of the Home ; but there were
others relating to transactions which it would be un-
just to derelope the proceedings upon, until those
proceedings were ended. General Proctor's conduct
was in course of investigation, and could it be posuble
to enter with propriety into an explanation of transac.
tions for three years until the papers were before the
House ? " Gentlemen on the other side make charges
and ask for papers. We say we will give them to
you, and then they reply, No, you deny it to be sure,
but because you won't go into every detail what a
parcel of shabby miserable fellows you are I" Such
unparliamentary conduct, he must repeat, he nem
before knew ; and after what had fallen, he trusted
the House would excuse him for having trespassed
upon their attention. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. TIERNEY said, the vivacity of the Honour.
able Gentleman (Mr. W. Pole) had been not only
very amusing, but extremely distinterested, for he,
who was the least affected by these charges, was the
only Gentleman that could not bear them patiently.
The Right Hon. Gentleman was only a stander by,
but he was ready to volunteer himself as the mime
curia upon every occasion. The Right Hon. Gentle.
man says, "we have denied the charges, and that
ought to satisfy you." Now.it we had said, " you
are a set of very incompetent fellows," and they had
said "we are very competent," why one assertion
might have been as good as the other, because it was
a matter of opinion, and each asserted according to
his own knowledge and belief; but here are charges
in detail, and what do they say to them Why
we'll give you the papers, and then we'll adjourn,
and by the time you meet again, we'll consider what
other papers may be wanted ; then, when we have
turned over the 'chapter of accidents, and find that the
affairs cf the Continent, and other important business,
may swallow up your attention, and so we are saved."
The Right Hon. Gentlemen really had not used to be
so thrifty of their communications, but to come down
with their yard; of pink tape and their alnic.a wag-
gon loads of papers. Those times, however, are al-
tered, and the Right Hon. Gentleman tells you you
are in an error ; but wait till next April, and I'll tell
you when you shall be put right.
Mr. BA THURST, adverting to reference that had
been made to the days of Mr. Pitt and Mr. Perceval,
observed, that the comparison might hold good ou
both Gan of the. House.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, the whole of the pro.
ceedings of the other side of the House denoted a
convictioo that they were extremely culpable. At
the time some of these transactions •took place, Mr.
Canning used to be continu illy complaining of the
want of energy in the prosecution of the war, and the
Right Honourable Master of the Mint (Mr. Welles.
ley Pole) was by his side cheering him. He was a
hopefurcandidate, but he had not reacoed the sunny
bank of his Majesty's Councils at that time—(Hear,
hear,)—now he was the redoubted champion of the
Treasury Bench. But Mr. Canning was sent to Lis-
bon, and the Right Honourable Gentleman bad se.
cured as snug a birth. Nature had certainly done a
great deal for the Right Honourable Gentleman, but
in no respect had nature been so much his friend as in
making him the brother of the Duke of Wellington.
—He meant no offence to the Right Honourable
Gentleman. After all the great display of magnani-
mity, the affairs of the Continent, and that most
pinching of ,all questions, the Property Tax, would
occupy the consideration of the House, and Ministers
might hope that the present question would be merged
in the interest and bustle before the Easter vacation.
He did not expect a long-winded speech from Mi.
Canning's new Lord of the Admiralty, but the Hon.
Secretary surely need not be as laconic in his answers
as he was in his letters. The sending two frigates to
be cut up in America was in itself an act of such
gross misconduct, that Ministers ought to have been
prepared to explain it.
Mr. HUSKISSON explained, that his Right Ho-
nourable Friend's (Mr. Canning) statement, was con-
fined entitely to the outset of the war, and never
charged neglect or improper conduct at any subse.
quent period. Upon the occasion of the conventioa
of Cintra, the House had not considered the merits of
the case until the necessary documents were before
them; and he thought a similar line of conduct ought
to be pursued in this instance.
Mr. STEPHEN.—" The Learned Gentleman who
submitted this motion for papers, was told that he
should have his papers without a motion ; but no,
that won't do, he must have a speech ; and that does
not content him, but he must have a debate.—(4
/wer.)—The Learned Gentleman in his opening
speech said,—" Give me but the papers, and, if I
find I am wrong, I will be the first to acknowiedge
and to atone for it." You consent to give him the
pipers, you deny the fairness of the imputations which
he is dealing out with such a liberal hand, and at,er
such a denial, he closes upon you, and says—" I Ix'
lieve all my charges to be perfectly well founded."
Now, Sir, I will ask if this is consistent with dies:
professions of candour with which the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman set out ?—(Hear, hear.)--
But there is a strange want of memory, and a cono'
quent want of consistency, in the Gentleman on the
other side. I remember having heard hum that
quarter that all Mr. Canning's friends were to te
provided [or, because they were Mr. Canning's
ti iends ; but we learn that the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. W. Pole) has obtained the appointment, 40'e
duties he discharges with so much fidelity and ho-
I nom-, because he is the relative of his Grace the DUO