Star.
London, England, 1809-05-12 00:00:00

3

Hampshire Election. They would then prosecute
Mr. Freemantle with the utmost rigour for writing a
letter to a single voter ; and yet now they would
claim complete impunity for the Chancellor of the
Exchequer and Lord Castlereagh who had sold a seat
to a Member upon certain terms to obtain his vote,
and afterwards turned him out of his seat because he

would not vote against his judgment. If such a case
as this were overlooked, the House might as well, in
his opinion, expunge its journals, burn its statutes,
and blot out the constitution. But, Gentlemen as-

serted that there was no precedent for these retrospec-
tive inquiries--Did they forget that, in one- of the
most corrupt periods of our history, at the close of Sir I
Robert Walpole's Administration, a Committee was
appointed to inquire into the abuses of that Admi-
nistration for no less than ten years back ? In these,
Gentlemen who voted against Lord Castlereagh upon
a former night for an act of corruption, which was
only inchoate, he thought it would be exceedingly in-
consistent to vote against this motion, where.the act.
was alledged to be complete. The opinion in favour
of Reform he believed to be much more general than
it had been at any former period, and it was very
easily to be accounted for. The result of the inves-
tigation respecting the Duke of York, the. rejection
of the Reversion Bill, and the vote in favour of
Lord Castlereagh, formed strong additional reasons
for discrediting the composition of that House, and
naturally multiplied the advocates for Reform. Still
he thought the sentimrt in support of Reform, when
it was last discussed, would have been much louder,
mere universal and effective, if it had not been for
the extraordinary exercise of the influence of the
Crown. This exercise was most strongly exemplified
in the case of the celebrated Robert Burns, the poet,
as appeared from a letter of his, published since his
death. Burns was an exciseman, and having, by
the liberality of his sentiments incurred the imputa-
tion of favouring the Reformers of his day, the
Surveyor called upon him by order of the Com-
missioners. Burns disclaimed the charge ; but
although under the apprehension of being sent
with his family to seek for bread, for the produce
of his works was insufficient to support a sick brother,
he ventured to say that the corruption of the Legis-
lature and the extending influence of the Executive
boded no good to the country. Upon which the Sur-
veyor observed authoritatively—" It is your business,
Sir, to act, and not to think—be silent and obedient."
(A laugh at the bad of the Ministerial Benches.) Mr.
Whitbread reprobated such. levity. Sure he was that
those who could laugh at such an insolent observa-
tion must be very much inferior indeed, in genius
and worth, to the man to whom it was addressed.—
It had become a fashion, he perceived, of late, to
call upon Gentlemen, rather improperly a.; he thought,
for a profession of faith upon certain political tenets.
For himself, however, he had no objection to make
the profession required. He certainly was not an ad.
vocate for the exclusion of all placemen from seats in
that House. Althotriilt he knew there were many
who had no right to be there, he would rather prefel
the presence of Ministers, in order that they might be
confronted with their accusers, that they might ac-
court: for their conduct, and display their views to the
House. He was also adverse to the idea, that it was
of no consequence by whom tie affairs of the Go-
vernment were administered. It appeared tohim quite
preposterous, even if corruption were not removed
or diminished, that it would not be material to consi-•
der by whom the power of the country should be di-
rected. What, that if the vessel were in a crazy state,
and its sails rent, it mattered not what pilot was at
the helm. There was not perhaps a man in society
who felt more hurt or at the idea of revolution than he
did. His all was at stake. He enjoyed many com-
forts, and valuing the British Constitution, he would
not risk its loss for any untried system—still less fi,r
a Republic. He was no admirer of Republican
Governments. They had both in ancient and mo-
dern times been corrupt and arbitrary. Even ir.
Athens, supposed the purest Republic, corruption I
pervaded the whole community, the people being
bribed by the orators, and the orat rs bribed by fo-
reign states, Demosthenes himself not being free
from the imputation. We happily had a medium
to which he wished to adhere, the true line of the
British Constitution. The exultation of the people at
the resignation of the Duke of York, was not from
joy at his humiliation, but from the triumph of seeing
that a Prince of the Blood could be brought, as it were,
to the bar of that House. It was justice which pre-
vented revolutions. If a Prince of the Blood in France
could have been brought to trial for follies similar to
those of the Duke of York, there would have been no
Revolution in France, and the old Monarchy might(
have continued
" Trojaque nunc stares, Priamique vox all a maneres."

It was the want of justice, and the want of timely re-
form, which precipitated the fate of the ancient Mo-
narchy of France, and which threatened the destruc-
tion of other countries But aversion to the idea of
revolution must utterly blindfold the judgment of any
man, who could suppose that such an evil was likely
to arise, if Lord,CastlereAgh were not granted im-
punity for a two-fold abuse of patronage, and if such
a case as that before the House were not overlooked,
the motion was perfectly ridiculous. The Honourable
Gentleman concluded with exhorting the House to
guard the country against the fate which all the cor-
rupt Governments of Europe had experienced—to
conciliate the people to their Government, aryl not
to reth:ce England to the state in which Sicily now
was, where the conduct of its Government had ren-
dered the people indifferent to the fate which seemed
to menace them.

Mr. B. BAI'IIURST saw no reason why it should
be assumed that he, and the Gentlemen who voted
with him in the rno.jr,rity upon the Duke of York's
case, had not come to a correct and conscientious con-
chi,ion. That they did so, he had no doubt would
be the prwvalent opinion of the country, when the pre-
sent ferment subsided, and Gentlemen had an oppor-
tunity of explaining the grolinds of their conduct to
their constituents. As to the question of Reform,
and the extraordinary professions of purity by which
it was recommended from certain quarters, he begged
the House to examine those professions. It would be
recollected,•that of all the corruptions which had oc-
curred, or were ever reported to have occurred at po-1
pular elections 4f venthe story of Punch at Shaftes-
bury sunk into mstgnificance, when compared to the
creation of the hundreds of voters for the Isleworth
M ! Ilear ! from the Ministerial Benches. )
The Right Hun. Gentleman expressed his resolution
to oppose this motion, ort,any other of a similar na.

ture which promised to give food and fuel to that po•
palar ferment, which it should be the objeit of the
House to allay.

Lord COCHRANE said, his principal' reason for
supporting Parliamentary Reform upon old constitu-
tional principles was, as he had stated at a late popular '
Meeting, ti order to set Ministers free from those dis,
cussions, which occupied too much of their time, and.
rendered thesis unable to attend to the important bu- •
siness of their several departments, the neglect of
which he had too often witnessed on foreign stations.
If the people were fairly represented in that House,
his opinion was, that there would be less of captious
opposition or tedious controversy ; corruption would
be set aside ; opposition Would have no abuses to point
out ; and Ministers, being disengaged from the task
of defending such things, would be able to devote
their minds more profitably for the State, to the ob.
jects he had before alluded to.
Mr. PONSONBY thought the discussion had, for
• near Live hours, been quite foreign to the subject be-
fore the House. The Motion was a specific charge
against two _Ministers for corrupt practices, and the
speeches were almost entirely about the danger of
popular :'.l,..etinas, and general questions about Parlia-
menc2ry. Reform. After this, would it be right for
him to inkn advantage of a political adversary ? No,
even though he confessed there was no man on earth
to whom he had a greater antipathy than to Lord
Castlereagh—a man who bad ruined the liberties of
the land which gave him birth, and destroyed the
Parliament of which he haf been elected a Member !
Yet even though he was one of the accused, he would'
not vote against him because opposite in party and in
politics. It had been...objected, that many on each
side of the House were interested in the concealment
of abuses ; but for his part, though he could not an-
' swer for others, he had never in the whole course of
his political life bribed any man in order to get elec-
ted to a seat in Parliament. It was not his province
to answer for those who might differ from him in
opinion, but he could not reconcile it to himself to
condemn a political antagonist for a measure which
had been universally practised.
Lord FOLKSTONE could not help differing. es-
sentially from the Right Honourable Gentleman who
had just sat down. With respect to the Prevention
Bill which was introduced, he
would be glad to kriow
how long that Right Honourable Gentleman, or even
.thoie opposite, had been reconciled to it ? But, even
although they both did agree to the Bill, what reason
was that for their not adopting the present measure ?
Were abuses to •continue in the House on that ac-
count ? A curious answer was now made, and it
was said that abuses were known to exist, but because
they had existed long, they ought to continue loage.r.
He remembered some time ago, when he asserted
that such abuses did exist, he was very much chased
and ridiculed for saying so. Now the case was altered,
and Members thought it politic to allow what they
had formerly denied. He had been accused also
lately for making a too general assertion ; and now
the mover of the present question was opposed for
being too specific As far as he could see, the plain
object was not who could be too general or too spe-
cific, but that the que.,tion and inquiry should- be
waved altogether.
Mr. WIND HAM rose amid loud cries of questiOn.
He said, he did not wish to detain the House very
long, but he could not help expressing his opinion
upon the present question. Much had been said
about abuses, and many Members had contended that
they ought to be totally eradicated ; it ought, how-
ever, to be cautiously considered, lest in tearing out
those abuses they should tear out the Constitution
also. It would be very diihcult, without danger, to
separate co-existent particles from the original sub-
stance, because,hose particles taken particularly
might be dangerous. The very air we breathe con-
tains particles, which, taken in themselves, were na-
turally poisonous, but if we were to strike out those
particles, we would render the earth itself uninhabi-
table. So it was exactly %rid' the Constitution. He
was, he believed, as great a friend to the Constitution
as any man, but ho would take it as he found it ; he
would not attempt to tear out the blemish, lest he
might annihilate the garment in the attempt at im-
provement. Lord Chatham had said he would leave
the Constitution as he found it, and he was. not
ashamed to follow such an example. He would ad-,
mit there was corruption in the State—corruption
from top to bottom, but more at bottom than at top.
/auerh.) The very proof was, that ulten.a public
man event astray, it excitedea greatcaimmotion in the
people—the exception proved his general rule ; at all
events he would not amend a general abuse by the
punishment of individuals. " In short," said the
Right Honourable Gentleman, " there is a general
agreement between the parties, which, notwithstand-
ing the new morality, I cannot call corrupt."
Lord A. HAMILTON rose, amidst a tumultuous
call of Question ! Question ! and it was with consi-
derable difficulty we could sometimes catch a fesv
words of what he said. His Lordship expresed great
surprise at the various doctrines he had heard deliver-
ed on the present question. One Right Honourabitos!
Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) had declared, he could
not listen to the charge, because the practice on which
it was founded had long been as open and broad as
the sun at noon-day. For his own part, if he linden,'
stood the Constitution—if he understood his duty as
a Member of that House-=if. he wished for the pros-
perity and tranquility of the country, he Amid sup.
pose that such a conviction in the mind of the Right
Honourable Gentleman who made it should have
been a very strong reason for his voting in favour of
the motion. With respect to the speech of the Right
Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down, he
had with pain heard and observed that it seemed to
cast such indulgence on every species of corruption,
that if he had not himself heard he could not haVe
believed. There seemed to be a doubt between that
Right Honourable Gentleman and his Majesty's Mi-
nisters whether there was anything whatever to correct
in the present system of Parliamentary Representation.
If the House should unfortunately determine to over-
look the present charge, he trembled for its dignity
and character having any longer a place in the esti-
mation of the people.
Mr. WILBERFORCE declared he never rose to
speak witlt more pain and surpricee He thought the
House ought to come to a resolution in favour of the
motion for the sake of its own honour and dignity--
There never was a time when tinder any state of things
either within or without the House, they ought to be
more careful of observing the opinion of the People.
Mr. CANNING, in a very eloquent manner,

called upon the House. that night to make a -stand
against the encroachments of the factious, and to re-
flect upon the system of which this motion formed a
part, dexterously introduced as it was. To-night it
was called upon to make an immolation of two upon
his side of the House, and, perhaps, if successful now,
it would on the morrow be summoned to sacrifice two
stately victims from thi other. ( Hear, hear.) He
argued the right of canvassing the motives and ap-1
preciating the conduct of public meetings, when such
meetings wen protruded upon the' judgment of that
House, as speaking the popular will, although never
legitimately convened, either according io the spirit
or the forms of the constitution. The Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman, although persuaded that excul-
pation would be the consequence of inquiry into the
conduct of his two Right Honourable Colleagues (of
one of whom (Mr. Perceval) he would say that his
private virtue and public integrity were acknowledg-
ed by his friends, and admitted even by his political
opponents to be without a stain) still he thought the
House bound to negative the motion, as well for its
avowed object as for the consequences to which it
would lead. He then concluded with a fine pane-
' uric upon the House of Commons, to whatever
causes, whether arrangement or chance, it owed its
present constitution.
Mr. HUTCHINSON spoke in favour of the ori-
ginal motion.
Mr. MADOCKS replied ; when Lord MILTON
withdrew his amendment, and the House divided on
the main question; whm the numbers were—For Mr.
Madock's motion 85.—Against it 310.—Majority
against the motion 225.—Adjourned at half past two.

THE EVENING STAN.