Star.
London, England, 1830-12-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, DEC. 14.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition from Dalkeith,
against the duty on Coals carried coastwise.
Lord WYNFORD presented a petition from Clakenwell, against
Negro Slavery.
Several other petitions to the same effect were presented by other
noble lords.

JEWS.
Lord BEXLEY presented a petition front his Majesty's natural born
subjects of the Jewish persuasion in the city of London, praying to be
relieved front civil disabilities. The noble lord supported the petition.
and observed, that in most countries of Europe the civil rights of the
Jews were now respected. It was not his fntention to tale any steps
upon the petition. as he understood the subject was to be brought up
again before the other house of parliament.
The petition was read, and laid on the table.
TITHES.

Lord KING said he bad a petition to present from the inhabitants of
Southampton and its vicinity respecting a grievance of the worst descrip-
tion. The petitioners complained of tithes, and as he then sew three or
four reverend lords on their Bench, he should take the opportunity of
stating several things which he should he unwilling to state in their
absence. It could not be unknown to their lordships, that throughout the
country the people complained of tithes and the great pressure of taxa-
tion. When a noble lord in the other house (Lord Castlereagh) said there
was an ignorant impatience of taxation, that impatience, ignorant as it
was, led to the reduction of seven millions of taxes. In the same man-
ner would the impatience of tithes lead to the overthrow of the tithe
system. (Hear.) Every one who looked at the state of the coon.
try knew that the farmers, so fat from discouraging the disorderly mobs,
rather encouraged them, and it was well known they would not lend
their assistance, as special constables, for the purpose et putting down
disturbances. The cause of this apathy was tithes. The farmers would
do nothing until relieved front that oppressive system. This dissatis-
faction on the subject of tithes was noticed last year, when the right rev.
relate brought in a bill for commutation of tithes ; but like the non-con-
tonmst, he was too late. The bill did not pass. Such a measure might
have been useful many years ago, but it would onswer no beneficial
purpose at the present day. Mr. Pitt had • plan in the year
1798 or 1799, rot converting tithes into three pet cents. and had it
been carried into effect, there would have been a permanent
law on the subject. Those persons who observed the disputes
on the subject of tithes at the present day, must say some permanent
measure was necessary. Something must be resorted to far the purpose
of protecting the farmer against the minister, or sleeping partner coming
in, and taking away the produce of his land. There were few things
which might not be turned into good by the ingenuity of man, but no
Divine had yet been able to prove that tithes were good for the people
of England. Some, indeed. had said, that tithes, being a commodity,
the consumption of the same was advantageous, but the noble
lord was not of that opinion. If the consumer gave an
equivalent, it would be for the gind of the grower. Tithe
was a tax en gross produce, and whether it could be justified
was a question he left to the rulers of the Chutch. In the opinion
of many, clergymen and landlords were wolves and tigers and
tithes a public nuisance. The noble lord was convinced the hardship
fell upon the landlord and the consumer, by preventing an increase of
supply. It was also injurious to the public, in as much as the tithe
system prevented the improvement of capital by cultivation of land. A
tenth of produce was taken before the cultivator could derive any benefit
from his ground. He had observed that the cultivated lands in France
were worse than the lands in England. The tithe was taken away in
France, consequently a farmer had some encouragement to work bad
soil. The noble lord did not think a mere commutation of tithes at the
present day would do any good. There ought to be a permanent
fixed settlement of tithes, on the principle of the settlement
made in Scotland, in the reign of 1% Wiens and Mazy. He said
nothing about bad blood and bad feeling produced by the present tithe
system. The Clergy had long since turned a deaf ear to that part of
the objections •' but something ought to be done for the and
quietude of the Clergy and their parishioners. If the hartter=lting
Clergy required more support, they should have it out of the lands of
Deans and Chapters ; all that sort of lumber was useless, and should he
removed. They were rejected by the reformed clergy of England. The
noble lord concluded by laying his petition on the table.
The ARCHBISHOP of CANTERBURY did sot wish to follow
the noble lord through his observations neving tithes and the oiliest
of the church. He rose to say, the bill to which the noble lord alluded
sod which was too late last Session to receive the sanction of their
ships, he should bring in again during the ensuing ilessiee.
The Bishop of LONDON admitted that the agricultural pegtsbike
had bees long sneering, but that suffering was not peed seed by tithes.
He attributed it to the goal-administration of the poor laws. There had
also been a cheate in manners; during an artificial resperity, farmer

had lived in a style of luxury which had led t' ,Ii•:T.PS fik.llllC It medy
must be applied, and the remedy was, no doubt, to took from the weal.
thy. The right reverend prelate denied that hats prothtt, d the
evils complained of. If the farmer did not pay titt, 'to the clittrell, he
mast pay more rent to his landlord. Ile did not say that tithes worked
ell, but he repelled the statement made by the noble lord, thal tithes
were exacted with severity. In no part of the world were tithes demand-
ed with so much lenity as by the Protestant clergy of Enpland. In
many instances a sixth only of the tithe had been tJeen. The
rev, rend prelate was also desirous of making one remark It an.
sicer to the calumny uttered against the holders of church prcperly.
Haring inquired into the subject, he could pledge Itimst.h. to prove,
that the whole property of the Established Church, if thrown into a
emollient fund, would not furnish each individual menther cf that
Church with a stipend of 3501. a year. When they looked at the clergy
as a lentned Jody, could their lordships con.ider that mini sufficient ?
( War, hear.) That the church property might he better dirid,stl he did
not ditty. Ile was one always ready to do what justice and equity
quired of him: and if an arrangement could be trade to benefit
the clergy generally, he could have no objection. At the same time,
lie was sure the church did no: deserve the censure cast by the noble
lord. The Church of Englund would stand -u it had done—the
glory of the Protestants of Europe, and the best support of the Bri-
tish Empire.
Lord KING explained.
The 3larquis of ELITE defended the e.tablislwel church, and de-
clared, as a tithe-payer, that he paid more tithes to the lay impropriators
than the clergy. The noble marquis could not admire the permanent
commutation in Scotland. Ile thought it would not 311SWa itp this
Country.