Star.
London, England, 1807-08-08 00:00:00

the fea, the belt way was to dirmits atom tray..

_ .
p'nt ts.
Mr. WINDHAM did not mean ro fpeak gene.
rally. That would not be a fair datetnent. He (poke
of difpofable tonnage. There was a greater quam
thy cf the fame fort when he went out than when he
came in ; and there was fuch a difpofition to attend
to this, that no (hip of that defcription was refufeciC
The Right Hon. Gentleman had Paid that the hopes
of other powers were, that wt fhould fend aid to the
King of Sweden ; but that was not the ftatement the
other night when the charge was made, as if they
had expeEted the atfiftance themfelves : here was a
difference of (hutment. He then obferved, that he
; had never raid we were to wait for the expedition to
come upon, us on the fudden.
Dr. LAWRENCE laid, the cafe.refpeCting S.ve.
den was now very differentfrom what it appeared %Iles
, first Rated on the other fide. He ridiculed-the diftreffes
I and Herculanean labours of the Secretary of State, is
defending the faith .111 honour of the Government
and Country, while he was aware all the while oi
fectet ; and Outs, by a kind of pious fraud, was liittlt;,
ling the late Minitlers again(' foreigp
'But how whimlical was his Cud& n j.,y the other night
Ten contradicting all tilde labours, and proclaivniti
the grand (met, that the Government of Eng,
gond had not kept her faith, and had occafioned
all this mifchief ! TheHonfe and the Country, bow.
ever, had not In little intereft in the charaCter of a
Government, Winifred, perhaps, by an inttigue, at
a critical moment. The Learned Gentleman went
at length into the arguments on both fides of the cafe,
and condemned the throwing out of Inch bore chatges
rat the end of a debate, to anf xer particular purpofes.
Mr. CANNING again alerted, that by the con.
feflioit of the Gentlemen oppofite, expeflations lad
! been entertained by the Continental Powers of Att.
ance from this country.
Mr. WINDHAM tore once more to erplain.
expeftation was held out, net any conditions mad.
, that were not fulfilled ; no pro:llWe made that was
afterwards broken.

Sir THOMAS TURTON thought that in the pre.
fent circumftances it was neceffary to give confidence
to Minitiers. Ruffia and PrulLa were proftrate. at
the feet of France, and our difputes with America
inereafid. The condo& of the latter country was
owing entirely to the pufillanimity of the lam &Cili-
ary, who treated vvithAmerica with a pilini at their
breaths. He v abed for unanimity in the public cattle.
He commended the Volunteer force, and walled the
Training A. to be cat tied into execution. He coin.
pared the Volunteers and the Training Al to a Qage
coach, the latter being like the balker, which was
Inch an uncomfortable jofhling ficuation, that thofe
who were in it were always trying to get forward.
Mr. HIBBERT laid, that what the Right Honour.
able Secretary (Mr. Cannieg) had on a former night
(hated as promites made by the late Govenimen4
had now dwindled into expeaations formed by fn.
reign powers, as to the affidance to be given by this
country.
Mr. ROSE laid, that the tranfports moll wanted
were thofe for cavalry, which required a much greater
time for preparation. As to what the Honourable
Gentleman had laid about promifes having dwindled
into expenation,, he thought if expernations had been
held out and encouraged which were nor fulfilled.
there was very little difference between Ode and
promifes.
The Honourable Mr. WARD Paid, the Honour-
able Baronet (Sir T. Turton) had Paid that they
were not infinuations made againfl the laietblininco,
but a dire& charge. He thought fo ton, and if the
late Minillers had really made promifes to foreign
powers which they had firbfequently broken, they
had been guilty of a crime, and that of no ineonft:.
derable magnitude, and he was furpeired, if that was
the cafe, that it fhould thus be brought in by way of
declamation, when they ought to have been embiidied
into a charge, and brought direaly againli them
Mr. W. SMITH adverted to what lidd bein' laid
by Sir T. Turton relative to America, and faid, that
when that country was mentioned, it could not be in
language too moderate or too conciliatory. He was
certain that blinitters had a • very diffi;:ult talk to
perform with tefpe.B to America, and he believed
they would be very cautious how they followed the
advice of the Honourable Baronet. He agreed,
however, with the Honourable Baronet 'in what Ire
had laid about the Ttaining Ad, and thought Par-
liament ought not to feparate till fome legitlative
nieafure was adopted for putting in motion that A&
which had been brought in by his Right Honourable
Friend ( Mr. Windham.)
The 11;11 was then read a third time and paired.
On the queltion " that this be the 'ride of the
Bill."

Mr. WHITBREAD role end faid, that as fome
charges had, on a former uight, been made againli
his Noble Relation, and as he had been Rated by the
Right Honourable Gentleman oppofite (Mr. Can-
ning), and the Noble Lord (Cafilereagh), to have
occafioned thole charges, he begged leave to make
fome further obfervations on the fubje& If he un-
derflooclethe Right Honourable Gentleman right, his
charge Rood thus: the late Government had made
promifes of military alliftence, which they had
broken ; and further, that if the contingency on
which thofe promifes were made had arifen, it was
phyfically impollible they fhould have been able to
fulfil them, from h4ving difcharged the tranfports.
which were to convey the troops. If his Noble Re-
lative had been capable of making loch prornife.
and afterwards breaking them, he-had been guilty
of a crime, for which he taught to be called to ac'
connt by a dkefl charge. The Right Honourable
Secre'ary had, on a former occafion, Rated, that
fpecific promifes of military afliaance had been made
to Ruffia and Praia ; but to night he.hadfaid, the;
this was only promifed through the affidance to he
given to Sweden. This being the cafe, he hopedthe
matter would be Rated and brought to a point. The
Right Honourable Gentleman might lay the C,orter!
pondence before the Houfe, and then every one
ser.nld be able to form a fair judgmesst as to the
charge. The Right Honourable Gentleman had
Rated, that one perfon connected with the late Go-
vernment had formed expeaations that the military
affillance was to be given to Ruffia and Prtaa. Did
he mean to fay that Lord Hutchinfon had expreffed
fuch expeflations ? He hoped, therefore, they would
bring forward a diliinEl charge on this fubjelt, and
thereby give his Noble Relative an opportuuitr of
defending hirafclf.

Mr. Secretary
tiever fed didin
off ance to dm
Sweden and Prt
loan, he had fig
made by the la
what he had laic
what had fallen
The Honourable
late Minifters ha
being too lava
Pronia, and aili
affiftance to that
thtm, and dates
were ton late, it
were called ttpc
chingtsagaina d
ever, think he
vertainly defeni
thought he was
Mr. Willn
Honourable Sec
Relative with a
-and then breaki
titer heard it urf
that annther per
Mr, WINDS
Secretary had al
poled to deny h
would defend hi
cufation again(
late," or " too 1
ifbPtdre
pi
tit s aka:
aTue
might the Hono
had, at the coat
fent Minifters w
afforded ;Allan
that if the impr
Ifcribed, they ha
Mance fooner,•
deceffors had lel
then dated, tha
expedlatinns of
bat never faii
bad been made
were blameable
cm that head; al
him by the chat
leagues, as to
a • dillinet charg
never heard of a
Lord H. PE'
ration in the d
made promifes

hiard there nevi

when the prefen
that fplendid. inl
tom their pre&
geterat promife
charge to the or
the documents v

♦who wrong in w
but they refuted
Lord and the R
Awed that what

*Nun by himfelf
was a great dca
two parties. V
his fide of the
Honourable Scl
them, if not tru
Minifiers, they I
firm of the do
troth of their a
power of with
3R the call of hii
that this chugs

it lhould ba acc
a diaina charß
The 'CHAN

laid. that it had

begn-nc:ai o certain
ind:ocnitni ntt

Minißas thong
ference of opiu
fon why, the pr
a. fpecific dreg
difference of
taken place or r
Lord FOLK
Reanought toi
the late Coven
bad accofed thi
r. LAWR
Ilan title of i

1-,4i1 • t

On the Orde
be now read a 1
,Lord.MILY
Without any in
!Ancient to thi
This. At the 1
Iliad a NU an
tagrOlPen
ut i .p
festousicsi
5 liiiiii7 - Ve4, not
Pi.. eit TO ".
1 tit ril cal
a 1;4 fiiliell
-gimp. citifies
vilig !Ai"'
ccafignecses.
44PA,14 -PO'
441WqMg.d1;
VP;
so4ptibe clot
no one ivliiitei
1114 ilfCerkgr f
ti4l4r.wi?
cox/4.
.. a . Iti
.powttr i
from th
tho. . . op
Ii: alire 'Ali:
Scaitiaitit. why
extent. and gii
trout over the

tiguqus to this
dangclus. sn
Cullom/a wi

Mr. secretary CANNING Ontetttled that he had
never fail &Rion roinifei Were made of peeunlaty
affillance to three powers. He had only mentioned
Sweden and Profile on the fubjed of the Rotten
loan, he had fignified his approbation of ibe refufal
made by the late Government. He infitled, that
what he had laid had been extorted from him, by
what had fallen from the eppofite fide of the Houle.
The Honourable Gentleman who (poke left, and the
late Minifters had accufed the prefent Minitters of
being too lavith of the public money advanced to
Pro(lia, and alto too late in the time of affording
affiflance to that power ; and when ha retorted on
them, and Rated in their own defence that, if they
were too late, it was-owing to their predeceffors, they
were called upon to come forward with a dißind
charge again(' the late Minifters. He did not, how.
ever, ilink he was hound to do Co, and he would
certainly defend himfelf in that way, which he
thought he was entitled to do.
Mr. WHITBREAD, in explanatidn, faid, the
Tionotirable Secretary had directly charged his Noble
Relative with a crime, in making a fpecific promife,
• decd then breaking it ; and it was the fiat time he
ever heard it urged, in defence of a perfon accufed,
that another perfon had done. In before him.
Mr, WINDHAM faid,. the Right Honourable
Secretary had afrerted a right which nobody was dii.
poled to deny him ; that when he was attacked, he
would defend himfelf; but when he brought an ac-
cufation againit men of a crime—not of being too
late," or 6t too lavifh of the public money," but of
promifes made to foreign powers, which had been
broken, he ought to bring forward documents to
fripport fuck a charge, andFlhould be ready to make
it good.
Lord CASTLEREAGH raid, that on a former
night the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread)
had, at the conclulion of his fpeech, accufed the pre-
fent Minitters with having been dilatory, in having
afforded adißance to the Pruflians; and he anfwer4,
that if the imprellion was fo thong as bad been de-
fcribed, they had been precluded from affording at'-
fillance fooner, from the fituation in which their pre-
- deceffors had left them, as to the means. He had
then Rated, that there was one power had expreffed
expedations of being Allied, efpecially with cavalry,
but never fail that any exprefs fpecific engagement
had been made by the late Minitters ; but that they
were blameable in having encouraged expeCiations
on that head; all which was abfolutely extorted from
him by the charges made againit him and his col.'
leagues, as to their condu& As to bringing forward
a ditlind charge againit the late Minitters, he had
never heard of an appeal that was more unreafinable.
Lord H. PETTY faid, there was now a new d.l
tinelion in the debate ; on a former night they had
made promifes which had been broken ; now they I
heard there never was any formal enzagement ; and
when the prefent Miniftert were preffed to make good
that fplendil inheritance of promifes they derived
iffom their predeceffots, they on this day return to I
general promifes t thus they danced from the one
charge to the other, while they were in puffellion of
the documents which would prove who was rightand
svho wrong in what had been faid on this fubjea, ;
hut they refuted to bring them for ward. The Noble
Lord and the Right Hon. Gentleman had both de-1
(-fared that what they faid had been extorted from
k them by himfelf arid his late colleagues ; but there'
was a great deal of difference in she fituation of the'
two parties. When charges were made by thole on
hi. fide of the Houle, the Roble Lord and the Right
honourable Secretary had the means of refuting i
them, if not true ; but when charges were made by
Minitters, they had the advantage of being in poll'ef-
lion of the documents which only cruild prove the
truth of their affertions, and at the fame rime the
power of withholding them. He joined, therefore,
in the tall of his Hon. Friend ( Mr. Whitbread) either
that this charge might not be heard of again, or that
it fhould ba accompanied by a document, and form
a ditlinft charge.
The CHANCELLOR of the •EXCHETJER
Paid, that it had been admitted that expeftations had
been held. out to Sweden, of cavalry being furnifhed
ou certain contingencies ; that. Sweden was of opi-
nion the contingency had taken place, and the late
Minißers thought it had not ; here there was a dif-
ference of opinion on one point, and he law no rev
fon why, the prefent Minikes fhould bring forward
a fpecific charge againit the late Government for a
difference of opinion whether a contingency had
taken place or not.
Lord FOLKESTONE tnongot me prefent Mini-
kes ought to bring forward a fpecific charge againit
the late Government, for the crimes of which they
bad .accufed thtm.
Dr. LAWRENCE was of the fame opinion.
The title of the Bill was then read and agreed to.
•Jared 41a.m$ SILL.
On the Order of the Day that the isith Arms Bill
be now read a third time, . .
Iord.jvIILTON rote and faid he could not agree, j
without any inquiry into the Hate of Ireland, to give
M agent to the patting of fuch an arkipary Alf as
this. At the time of the Union, the Ira were pro-
anifed a full and fair participatiop of the, rights of
Enganien ; and at that moment, after a lapfe of
rem years, they were called upon to pafs an Ad,
11}rA4ich nothing could he more:arbitrary and up-.j
pt4ve, and which could not be borne with in Eng-
lsß,Lbps in cafe, of the moll imperious neceffity, and,
after thefulleft inquiry. This could not fail to in-
im lealoolies and fufpicions among the Irifli, and
11110, hc,feared, kpreidative of the molt injurious
cualcquences. It.' hadlikin attempted to jollity this
Aft on the. principle which. had prevailed, in that of
dictunting the Hightsoders,, but there was a very
Sipe diffetenCe bovicen them. 'Alt for difar-
ttlg the Oisblant!crs was patted g The
a period when
In
no one whatever could fur a moment doubt the abfo. ,
lute necefiff for it., It was immediately after a re-
bellign,4, which thole men had taken up arms in the
caufe pf a Noes, who was a depleted enemy. to the
Proteßant religion, and whole anCeflor had been et-,1
Pelle4 from this country, for his attempt to overlie*:
the. Costeirosino. Many of the Nubility of Scotia*
had been eXecaatest for tiseirhapport Of that rebellion ;
nit die An was only to siffes, a partieular part of
Sr4land, where feudal law prevailed to a great
extent, end gave the I..9rds a fupreme fway and con..
trout over their tenants ; end Scotland being fsiststk
tignous to this country, the tebellion was the more
dangcrons. and more likely to run over it. ThcHnis,
Gelding= who brought onward this Sal celled ea

the Honfe to pats it into a lam, without any doco-
mentwo prove the neretlity of it; and without any
means of .conciliation baiting been adopted towards
Ireland: He hoped, is a future lemon, to r:e fome
meafure adopted in favour of the Irifh, to fee a Mo-
dification of tithes ferioufly let about, and maturely
and fully confidered ; and above all, to fee the Ca-
tholic fubjeas of Ireland reltored to their rights ; but
Paid the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
44 the Church is in danger." In what way this could
be made out, he was at a lois to forefee. Would
Catholic emancipation give the Catholic Clergy any
greater force of arguments, as to the foperiority
of their religion ? For his part he Taw no danger,
unlefs it was caufed by the Proteflants deferting the
Church. He protefted againft thofe reftraining laws
—they had for a great length of time been tried
agitinft Wales, and had always been found fruitier,
and nugatory. He thought the attempt to difarm
New England, as we had done, would aot fo loon
h've been forgotten, but would have operated to re-
ftrain Minifters from thus attempting to difarm Ire-
land. a hoped, inftead of this, that the Irith would
be reftor ed to*eir rights, and henceforward be al-
lowed the rights of Englifbmen. He obje&ed warmly
to the feelings of the lrifir people being, at that mo-
ment, infulted by the appointment of Magiftrates,
who had (hewn themfelves to be party men, and who
were henceforward to be inverted with the molt arbi-
trary and oppreftive powers. For thofe reafons, he
fhould certainly vote againtt the Bill being read a
third time.
Mr. LUSHINGTON laid, every one who read
this Bill mutt fee chat it was againit every principle
of that Conftitution for which our ancefturs bled.—
He believed the late period of the fetfion prevented
Minifters from laying information before the Hr.ufe„
He had had recruit fe to the bell information he could,
and was lorry to confefs, that the opirri,m of his mind
was, that a necellity for it did exift. He fhould have
been glad that the elaufe empowering Magittrares to
enter houfes in the night had hten modified and gnat
' dtcl with fome reltriNions ; but being convinced of
the neceffity, he moll v•.rte for the 11111. He th,,ught,
however, that a year would have been I ng enough
for its duration.

Mr. P. MOORE thoneht, that in a bee conntty
like England, fuch an Ad as this Arnold never he
paled but from extreme nectflity. It had beer laid,
that this Al wasitttlitted by neceTry ; but there was
no evidence in proof of it, except the < pinion k f an
Hon. Gentleman, which, however refeedable that
Gentleman might be, he could not frig r to Tway him,
nor was he able to biing his corOcience to adopt to
arbitrary a meafu.e on loch autli,oi;y. Such a cor.
coding All as this mull prove highly it jurious in its
confequences. by iititatiug and lalcerating the feel-
ings of the frith pe pie; anti it °tele- was a necefficy
for it the fad was, it did riot go far enough. Fur
thefe reafons, lie w odd m,ve an amendment, " that
it be read a rhi•el time this day three months."
Mr. 'WHITBREAD laid he would trouble the
Houle only with a very few words. As this Bill was
conneded with another, which had already paffed
into a law; and for which he had voted, though with
great teluetance, and on Vie authority of an Honour.
able Gentleman who was liippored to know very well
the prefent flare of lieland, lie %riffled grimly to allign
his reafons for objecting to i tae prefent bill. He owned
hrehad the fame reafnn to deter to that authority on
the prefent occafion, but the difference between thefe
two bills was, that the other bill only operated againft
certain parts of Ireland, viz. the proclaimed coun-
ties, whilfl they went the length of laying they had,
in the whole of Ireland, a people fo thoroughly and
decidedly ditafteded to the ivernment that they
could not trult them with arms, Which was proclaiming
to the enemy that if he landed troops there, he would
be fore of numerous par tiz ins. Tithe Houfe thought
that by this bill they woold difarm the people, he
feared they would find themfaVes miftaken, welsh
they gave a power to the Migillrates to aft oppref-
lively, and to create new enemies every day. In all
countries were they had tried to difasm the people
in this way, experience had proved their incapacity
to do it. The chore, giving power to the Magistrates
to fearch houfes for arms in the night, was unnecef-
fary, °for the arms were ufed in the night, and the
fearch ought to be by day-1-but in no cafe ought it
to be allowed, except in the pretence of a Magiftrate.
It became therefore, his duty, however reludantly
he might differ in opinion with the late Ministry, to
vote againft the Bill. If he could believe it woad
produce any fecority to the Country and the Govern-
ment, he would support it, but as he could not do
fo, he mufl vote againft it.
Sir A. PIGOT Paid he would beg leave, as fhortly
as pofliSle, to give his reafons for dilfenting from
this Bill. It was art Ad of the molt arbitrary and
opprellive nature, brought forward without any in-
quiry into the flare of Ireland, without any evidence
laid before the Houk as to the neeetlity of it ; an:: it
was altogether fa uncontlitutional an aft, that nothing
but extreme and moll imperious neceffity could poi-
libly jutlify it. It did not depend on the refponfibi-
lity of the Lord Lieutenant and Council, nor on the
authority of the eltablithed Courts of Law; but two
Magiltrates could execute all the arbitrary provifions
of this terrible law. He did not conceive himfelf
authorized to give his affent to Inch a Bill u this,
on the authority of any. Hon. Gentleman, however
refpeßable he might be, both for charader and talents,
and notwithfianding all that bad been Paid on the
fubjed, be could dot.fee any neceffity whatever for
it. Lord liardwicke had refided upwards of four
years in Ireland, a moll able, dignified, and popular
reprefentative of his Sovereign, during which time
he had never found it neceffary to refort to thofe
extraordinary provifions. If fo, what was there in
the.prefent late of Ireland to give rrecation to this
Bill ? Since my Lordliardwicke, the Duke of Bed. ,
ford had been fame time as Lord. Lieutenant ; and
there were tome partial difturbanees in different parts
of the country. Applications had been made to his
Grace to put in force the provifions of this Ad I but
he. refuted. He proceeded againd the culprits in a
legal way ; and the law was found fufficient to fob-
dpe the infarredion, and to punith the offenders.—
Here the Houle had theevidence of two Lords Lieu.
tenants, that in the cootie of fix or (even years, there
was no neceffity for loch medicine. It mull be a
neceffity made apparent to Parliament, and not
allowed to go on the refped to any affertion of any
individual, to put the whole people, f Ireland out of
the law, and 'authorize thefe n retunal domiciliary
viits..• Ms avetk to the Bill as rem. lie Dever
. .

could reconcile himfelf to a Bill which was to place
the pebple, in every part of Ireland, in the power of
any two rafts, prejudiced or intemperate Magiftrates,
to break open their houfes at any hour of the night,'
and, ender the pretence of fearching for arms, to
alarm and intuit their families, and without the
flighteft evidence of any neceffity : and at leall if the
Houfe Mould agree to pars the Bill, it ought to
name the fhorteft poffible duration, not longer, at
fartheß, than the commencement of the next feffion ;
when the fohjet might again be confidered, and the
law fuffered to expire, unlefs the executive Govern.,
ment of the country ihoold think it neceffary to be I
revived. It was faid by the fupporters of this Bill,
that it was to be continued for three years, in the
firft inflance, becaufe the revival of the fulajeet in
Parliament, year after year, would excite irritation.
So that to avoid this fuppnfitious confequence, the
people of Ireland were to be three years ezpofed to
the arbitrary oppreflion of Magiftrates, and their un-
derlings, and to be deprived ef their arms for the
defence of their habitations. There were times here-
tofore, when a Britifh Parliament would not tolerate
fuch language ; and he thought it required force
boldnefs for any Minifter to flare fuch a propofition.
Yet how could the bill be continued three years, on.
lefs it was the united fenfe of Parliament to refitt any
motion for its repeal, w/rich it was competent for
any Member to propofe in the next Selfion ? Would!
any Member fuppofe it poflible, that the affairs oft
Ireland moll not come under the confederation of!
Parliament every year. If bills like thefe were the
boons to be granted to Ireland by this country, there
were what they could find elfewhere ; and if Parha•
ment did not fee the wildom of governing that court-
try by lenient and conciliatory meafures, and fulfill-
ing to the hopes of the people the effects they were
taught to expeCt from a legiflative union with this
country ; namely, the knitting together their tights
and interefts with thole of their Br itifla fallow fubjees;
if Parliament did not feel the neceffity of ftrengthen-
ing, at this awful crifis, the armies of the empire, by
the valour of a noble, brave, intrepid, and loyal peo.
pie. inttead.of keeping up a fy Rem of coercive and
irritative mealures, he mull only lament their blind-
nefs. This obfervatiun reminded him of a declara.
tion once made by one of the ableft flatefmen that
ever prefided over the deftinies of their country--
he great Earl of Chatham, who laid it was his max-
im to cherifh merit wherever he found it, fr. e from
all partiality and prejudice to countries. He had
fouaht and found %brave people in the North, who
had long been eliranged from all attachments to Bri
:ilh Government, by alts of impolicy and oppreflion,
which transferred their affection to a foreign foe,
who had flattered them with hopes of redref.. He
removed their oppreftion... He noticed their loyalty
to this country. They flecked to the Britifh Ran
dard, and conquered for England in every quarter of
the world. It was a fimilar policy that would give
the belt effects to the Union, by uniting with this
country the affection of the heir people. But a con-
trary condo& would tend, ultimately perhaps, to lop
off the right arm from the Britifh empire, at a mo
ment when we wanted twice as many arms as we
have to tired our fecurity in this awful cats. He
concluded by befeeching the Houfe and his Majeßy's
Government to depart from this fatal fyftem, which
ricked no lefs thansthe ultimate lois of Ireland.
Mr. DILLON Rated, that it fell within his own
knowledge, that during the Adminiftration of the
Duke of Bedford, forne hot headed Magilirates had
proclaimed a diftriel contrary to law. They after-
wards applied to the Lord Lieutenant to fanflion
their illegal proceeding ; he refufed to do fo, and the
ultral operation of the law was Found to he fufficient
for the prefervation of public tranquillity. To fuch
men it was not his inclination to confide loch powers
as were nor found neceifary in the Admioiltration of
Lord Hardwicke, and Inch as the Duke of Bedford
refilled to fanetion. It was the with of Lord Kilwar-
den, even in his dying moments, that the law lhould
not be violated on his account. Minifters were well
aware that by the Bill of Rights every Britith fubjeft
had a right to bear arms, and if unneceffary infrac-
tions of the belt articles of ihe Conllitution were made
as a matter of cootie almott, Minifters might expel
that those portion of the people of that country would
declare their lentiments in the mull open manner
againit fiich proceedings ; they might expert not that
a Revolution founded on Agrarian principles would
be attempted, but that the higher dais of the people
would be railed, and that they would petition againfl
the Union. On the intended motion of Mr. Sheridan
he fhould deliver his fentiments more fully, in the
mean while, however, he thought it his duty to op
pole the Bill now before the Houfe.
Mr. PONSONBY thanked his Hon. and Learned
Friend (Sir A. Pigott) fur his eloquent defence of
the rights of the people of Ireland ; and, in order
to prove what was the prefent Rate of that country,
he allured the Honfe that he did not know of any
part of the Ifland which could fairly be laid to be in
a difturbed Rate. At the circuits in Tipperary and
in Wexford, the Judge publicly noticed the circum-
Rance, that not a fingle Bill was found for any thing
conneeted with treafonous or feditious practices, and
he thanked the inhabitants of thefe two counties for
their peaceable demeanour.
Mr. CRAIG was of a fimilar opinion, and depre-
cated the provifions of the Bill. The loyal fohjeCis
of Ireland would be placed by it in the fame fituation
as dining the rebellion, when their houfes were broken
open, and arms carried away, which they could never
again obtain. Nay, even Rotes were ranfacked, and
though the officer (whole name he would not difclofe)
gave receipts for the return of thofe arms when ap-
plied for, yet no redrefs was given.
[l4ere, as for Come time previous, there was a cry
for the Qtyllion from the Minillerial Benches.]
Mr. SHERIDA.N then declared, that to him it was
a matter of aftonifhment to hear the queßion called
for by fomething like a general voice. He had no-
ticed the motion of his Hon. Friend, and the ability
with which he had fopported it, and he had noticed
molt attentively the el quent and uriaafwerable ergo
meats of his Honourable and Learned Friend (Sir A.
Pigott). and many other Honourable Gentlemen ; he
certainly did think that fomething would have been
faid in anfwer to them ; he certainly did think that
fomething like an anfwer would have been attemp-
t ted; he certainly did thinkahat the Gentlemen oa the
other fide would have condefcended to have faid
fomething in favour of their own meafure, after it
had been overwhelmed alinoft with filch a torrent
of assusisoat. But deem kritiassd was at Own La-
,

jured and intuited, it was that night ; he conceited
the filence of Wnitters on this occafion to be an
injuflice to the meafure itfelf, whatt it evinced a to-
tal difregard of the Gentlemen who fp6ke upon the
fubjeet, and through them infulted and outraged the
feelings of the people of Ireland. The Gentkmest
who fpcdte upon the fubieet, pleaded the cattle of the
injured Conttitution of Ireland. They plea• Jed that
caufe in the molLmriderate and perfuafive minas, and
yet the moft Mien filence prevailed throughout the
whole body of his 1411jetly's Miniders ; they gave a
blank inll •ad of argument. Even on the introduetionof
theßill, when it was unavoidable to fay lomething in • •
fupport of the mealure, the Attorney General did not

pretend to fay that he knew any thing of the exillence
of any fads, the exitience of which was necelfary to
jtsftify the adoption of fuch a meafure ; no, but he had
heard fomething by tumour finnewhere, about the
ezillence of f.)me fuch citcumftances. The Chancel.

for of the Exchequer was equally ignorant, hut he
had alto heard fomething that he believed had a
strong tendency to referable infurre6lion.
with refpea to the Bill itfelf, when ire looked at it.

compared it with that which had Wel,- palled the
Houfe, he mull fay that if the former teemed odious

in its form and inbliance, this was t 0,000 times mote
fo, it was really moll abominable. But at the fAsne
time, as if it were meant to make the meAfure h.,th

odious and ridiculous, it was Co conameted As that it

would plunder the people of their arms and put
down the trade of a blackfmith. Nlthing like a
blackfmith was to exift in Ireland lett he might pnfii-
bly form ftimething like a pike (a laugh). If ever there
was an inflance in which the liberties of aloyal people
Were taken from them, end they were thereby tempted
to become difloyal, it was the prefent. Indeed from the
general fpirit with which the Bill was framed, he
th ,ught there was fomething (hll waiving, and he.
&mid propefe to add a claufe by way of rider to this
Bill', making it high treafon for any man to communi-
cate either of there Bills to Napoleon Bonaparte, Em-
peror of the French, left he fhibuldcouceive them to be
_ .

Ziireet invitations to him to ♦itit.that part of his Ma-
jelly's empire. He hadaiready noticed the filence of the

-Gentlemen oppolite him ;but if they fhould now think
proper to drop a word or two, when he confidcred

. .
the high political charader, the extraordinary vi: cue,
and the vallly extenfive powers of argument of thole
Gentlemen, lie fhould think himfelf highly honNured
indeed, if they fhould deign to take the molt trifling
notice of any:thing that fell from him. He now hap-
pened to recalled what was laid by a Right Hon.
Gentleman, to whole opinions they all deferred (Mr.
Grattan), that notuithttanding he voted for the pre-
fent mealure With all its defeds, rather than Idle it al.

together, yet that Gentleman Paid, that he hoped to
fecnre the revellittnary interell of the Conflitution to
Ireland. _ But when we law that the Conflitution was

fufpended from the year t 795, to the prefent pei iod,
and that it was now likely to be continue-I fOr three
years longer, the danger was that .we might lofe the
intereft al-ogether; when we were mortgaged for
loch a length of time, at lal a foreclofure might take
place. But what had been done for the prottdion of
Ireland ? an experienced military officer, the Secre-
tary of State for that country, has been fent up the
Baltic.—[The Chancellor of the Exchequer laid,
tcrofs the table, No, the Secretary to the Lnrd Lieu-
tenant.]—Mr. S. then raid, he felt himfelf highly ho•
nonred indeed by that corredion of a fuppered error.
If the Right Hon. Gentleman meant to fay that the
Worthy, Baronet (Sir A. Wellefley) was too infigni-
Scant, he would defend the Hon. Baronet againft the
imputation of that Right Hon. Gentleman. The
Baronet was Secretary to the Reprefentative of his
Majelly, and a military man ; he was fact up the
Baltic ; Ireland was drained of her troops ; of the
means of defending herfelf &pion foreign or domettic
enemies, and Minifters now attempt to garrifon that
unhappy Country, by means of two deceit +hie AEU
of Parliament ! rhe Houk was convulfed with
laughter during the whole of the Right Honourable
Gentleman's fpeech

The Houk Then divided, and the nnmbers were—
For the Amendment 28—Againih i. flo—M4j -I. ir y 52.
The Bill WAS thee read a third time without a
divifi qt.

Upon onr re.admiffion to the Gallery, the tine flion
before the Houle was, on the P.:dß:lg of the Bid.
We found that Lord H. Petty had argued at confi-
derable length againft the duration ~f the Bill.—
Whiff} the H-rufe was adopting ftrong meafures to
remove the effect, he thought it was incumbent on
them to do fumething to remove the.cauk, that they
fhould Phew the people of Ireland that their cafe was
(till open to Parliament. He theref,re moved that
the words in that claufe thould be altered to " the
IR of Auguit iBoB, and until fir weeks after the •
commencement of the enfuing feffion of Parliament."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEIZJER
oppofed the Amendment. The duration propotid
by the framers of the Bill did not preclude the repeal
at any time that the necellity which called for it
fhonld ceafe to cu 11. But he could not be reconciled
to the Amendment, beeaufe the died of it would be ,
to bring the quellion refpeeting Ireland into difcuf-
fion more frequently than was confiltent with pro-,
dence ; and probably by fuch difeuffions inflame the
neceffity which urged the adoptioe of chi. Bill. The
fame reafpns which warranted the period enalt.cd for
the continuance of the Infurration Bill, f rved to
warrant, in his opinion, an equal duration of this
meafure.

Mr SHERIDAN faw no reafon why the meafore
before the Houfe, and the Infant&ion Aft, thould
proceed pariplu, as the one propofed to lufpead the
Cortilitution of all Ireland, while the other was only.
to be called into attion upon the requilition of.
the Magiftrates. With tegard to the objettion urge&
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, against she.
Amendment of his Noble Friend, the ground of that
objeCtion waprecilely that upon which he wool I be.
content to ref the qualification of the sere i.e meaat to
give. For, Co far from witting to prevent, hi- anxt ,us
defi.e was, that the affairs of Ireland should be Ire.
quently and fully difculred. • He deprecated the idea
of biknking that qu eft inn. It was of too much imp at-
,, ance to be overlooked ; and inafmuch as Irelani was
I effential to the eaiftence of the Empire, its co icerne
were entitled to the first confederation of Parliament.
The Right Honourable Gentleman contende , that
I Ministers in calling for fuch extraordinary, ..nd he
I would fay, urconititutional powers as this trl cow
! ferred, were bound to Rate the nature and amount
of the seceifity which could alone warraat ti a call.
Bet upon this they pr ice' it dignified Alsace. 'fue

Chancellor of the Exchequer, however, Rated that,
is to this amendment, it was unnectffary, becaufe
the propufed period of duration inferted in the Bill
did not preclude the propofition of repeal within a
year, if it fhouldappear.neceffary. Now if this argil.
Ment were good for any thing, it would warrant
!flaking the Bill perpetual, becaufe it would Rill be
competent to any member to move fur its repeal.—
To talk about periods of duration, therefore, with
filch an argument in view, was quite unnecefrary.—
But he ditcarded filch an argument ; for wi.ti thofe
who brought forward the Bill, the onus of proving
itsiteceffity lay, and the Bill thould not be decreed
to continue for one moment beyond the probable ex-
;Renee nf neceflity. With a view to impofe that
onus tiponthem at lea annually, he would fupport

the Amendment.
Mr. El.lol' (late Secretary for Ireland) admitted
the necessity of this meafure, but thought the period
'of duration quite another queftion, and that Parlia-
Went ought to thew an anxiety to keep as much asl
poffible within the limits of that neceffiry. He would
therefore ftipport the amendment, and would ftrongly
advife Gentlemen on the other foie, to accede to it.
The Right Hon. Gentleman earneftly recommended
the adoption of conciliatory meafures with regard to
Ireland. He deprecated the language which he had
heard from a high authority in that Houle. and in
another alterably alto with refpea .to the Catholics.
For he eonfidered fitch language extremely rath and
imprudent, to fay the leaft of it, as it would go to clofe
the expetiations—to put an end to the hopes of the
Catholic body. When Gentlemen talked of fettling
the queflion, what did they mean ? Did they mean to
fay to a population growing in numbers, wealth, and
confeqnence, We will never attend to roar wilhes—
we will never comply with your defires ? But fume
Gentlemen undertook to fay, that the Catholic !Fief
tion was of no confequence to this population. The
contrary, basevert was as true as nature was true to
herfelf. What ! that the landed and commercial in
terefts, which had fitch extentive and kin influence
among the Catholic body—that the Gentlemen of the
Bar did not afpire ro thofe privileges and dillinaions
from which they are at prefent excluded—the idea was
quite reprifterous. He could air e the Hnule that
Gentlemen were miftaken who fuppofed all thofe
feelings prevail among the Catholics, which tlrongly
bind men to the State. Fa the defire of participa-
ting in thole privileges, which the State granted,
was a Orong bond of concretion. He, of comae,
difideed, and would wilh to difenuntenance the doc-
trine, that the profpea fhonld be removed, which
(erved to keep alive that &fire. At lean allow the
Catholics to hope—let them cheriffi expeaation, as
one of the guarantees of their loyalty'. as one of the
heft steans of preterving the tranquility of Ireland.
With a view effectually to retort and to maintain that
tranquillity, the Right Hon. Gentleman mentioned
the different !matures which the late Minifiry had in
contemplaticn—foft, the grant of privileges to the
Catholics ; fecond, the modification of tythes ; third,
a aria attention to the appropriation of the funds
deftitted for education ; and fourth, the enforcement
of the rtfidence of the Enabliffied Clergy.—Thefe
were among the .benefits which the late Adminifira•
tion meant to confer upon Ireland,,acd which he
heartily wifhed to fee adopted.
Mr. WILBERFORCE felt much fatisfaftion in
hearing the objects which the Right Hon. Gentleman
had pa Hated, and particularly with regard to tythes,
in which if a change could be effettled without injury
to the interefis of the ellahlithed clergy, it was on all
bands admitted to be extremely defirable. The Ho-
nourable Member expreffed his with that the Gentle-
men of Ireland would themfelves devote their attention
to a confideration of the means by which the date of
the VIII people might be amended. For he could not
help thinking that in that people,he meant the peafan•
try pat denial ly, there was a differcnce not only in the
civil condition, if he might foexprefs Matfett, but in
the political charaaer, from that which appeared
among the fame chines in this country, 'and the
-Gentlemen of Iteland might b 7 mon competent to
judge of the LEI, and to prepare the means of im-
proving their countrymen.
Mr. ELIOT, referring to the language of Mr.
Emmett, btfure the Committee of the Irifh Parlia-
ment, dated the admiffian of that Gentleman, that
although Catholic emancipation was in his judgment
of little confequence to the population of Ireland, yet
that the refufal r f that meafure was a mot efficacious
means of promfaing infurreaion.
Mr. WINDH AM was glad to hear his Right
Hon. Friend date the objects which the late Admi-
oiftration had in view, fir the benefit of Ireland; and
to thufe objects he wifhed particularly to point the
attention of the Houle. It was now obvious, that
the late Milliners did nut mean to cor.fine themfelves
to the queflion refpefling the Catholics.
Mr. OSBORNE rote to order. He -did not con-
ceive the obfervations of the line cf argument purfued
by the Riglo litmourable Gentlemen, or the two lag
Cpeakers, at all relative to the quellian before the
lioufe, as to the proper duration (lath Bill.
The SPEAKER Paid, that he certainly amid not
feel himfelt ju iified in interrupting the cootie which
the girt,' Horourable Gentleman was taking.
Mr. WIADHAM reformed t and remarked upon
the arvirment of the Right Hon. Gentleman on the
other ft tc (the Chancellor of the Exchequer )infavaur•
of the Bill 3., far from crnfidc ing this Bill. and the
Infuriation Aa as twin , which the Right Honour-
able Gentleman teemed to pronource them, he
thought them materially different. With refpea to
the c nfequer.ce to be apprehended from the frequent
n of meafures of this nature, and which the
Right Hon Gentleman on the oppolite fide wouldde-
precate, he for himfelf thought, that asmuch irritation
might be produced by filence as by &reunion—nay,
ov,re ; and fa he all); ehencled from the iiience of Mi.
nifiers up( n this oceafion. The feelings of the people
of Itch d n uft be grated to find it refiaaaa to con-
tinue the duration o f Such a Bill as this beyond a
seafonable lime, withour,ny ilatorent, and perhaps
without the exidence t f rectffity. For whatever the
to.eeffity might he now, that nect flity might be at an
and alibi,. to else m.,t 11 s. At all events, the cafe was
eloub.ful, and the liith people thould have the benefit
of that douho Enacting the bill f a one year did not
resin& jistevivAl,fh.,tild it a prea-necefiary,anymore
than the rtarival of the Mutiny Bill, which, from the
fame crinloiciatit ns eat ch actuated his mind on this
or-canon, Parliament had takencare to pals annually,
although its r ect Silty was undifpnred and its princi; le
wiqucitionAtblcr The (late yt the cafe tiPon thil