Star.
London, England, 1822-06-05 00:00:00

bear the constrnctit* of beiatialiamtliatory
it by the Noble Marquis, and
pc such intention. •He
that he should. continue
Incas, even at the risk
laugh).-;lleßeinrmers. The yeonii Airy
be himself was a convert tu the doctrrae
(A laugh).—That House •
interest in it before justice
try. He would agree Reform
brought forward by a (Russell),
ever that motion again came before the Hone; he
ivotr!d vote for it. He hoped, however, the Noble
:!tlarcpris would not accuse him of being inflamma-
try, Although he did wear a white hat!
The. Marquis of LONDONDERRY had only to
charce the Hon. Baronet with having unduly eze-
cuze.i his own intentions. With reference to the re-
peated assertions, that iewas only at thb instance of
j:e other side that taxes had been taken Off, he begged
to remind the House, that they commenced at Easter
to state their plans for the remission of taxation, thus
taking the earliest moment that the pressure of public
business afforded.—The Petition was then read, and
ordered to be printed.

POSTMASTER-GEN/MAL, SCOTLAND.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished
to know if the Hon. and gallant Member opposite
(Sir R. Fergusson), whose motion relative to the Post-
ina,!er-General of Scotland stood for that night,
wo:i:J consent to postpone his motion until the result
of the examination of the Commissioners of Inquiry
into that, as well as other subjects, was known ?
Sir R. FERGUSSON yielded a ready acquiescence
to any suggestion from the Right Hon. Gentleman,
the 'more so on the present occasion, as be was satis-
fied that any investigation on the subject must lead
to a discovery that the situation was a perfect sine-
cure.—The notice of motion was then withdrawn.

prisoninent. In looking at the small numberof crimes,
It should also be considered that Franc* had been
twice invaded ; and that' her army, with all their im-
puted habits of rapine and plunder, bad been dis-
banded, and spread over her territory. Was that
stare of things to be ascribed to the excellence of her
Criminal Code ? There was a strong presumption,
that there was something in the one system that had
a tendency to check, and in the other to promote
crimes. The French law was also meant to be exe-
cuted, which the other was not. He should now
proceed to the second branch of his Resolution.-
-If they wished to make an informer less odious
let him not conduct to the gallows—(F/ear, hear).
The natural honesty and virtue of the -cemnsunity
would lead to the fair detection of crime. He was
one of those who thought that limited transportation
was necessary in the case of an absolutely irreclaim-
able offender, or where a man has lost his character,
and can only recover it in a new colony and a new
world. At the same time he must say, that our mode
'of colonizing New South Wales (because we had not
established, in the first place, a proper and well-re-
gulated population) was very defective. There never
could be any just classification of prisoners, until they
gave the punishment of death only for the most enor-
mous offences. He defended the Prison Committee
from the charge of wishing to inspect prisons, and to
make them places of indulgence, instead of places
of punishment. He eulogized the conduct and chat ity
of those females, of the purest morals, whq visited the
impure of their own sex, and brought them back to
virtue with more delight than the worldly villain
first had in drawing them from the paths of virtue.
But our Criminal Laws met, and defeated all labours
of virtue, for the forging of a Bank-note, the cutting
down of a tree, or the stealing to the amount of 40s.
were all punishable with death. He had trespassed
too long on the attention of the House, but he trusted
not without having succeeded in establishing the po-
sition—that undue an 4 undistinguishing severity was
the worst rneans_of repressing crime. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman concluded, amidst cheers from
both sides, by submitting his Resolution, which was
to the following effect:
" That this House will, at an early period in the next Session
of Parliament, take into their most serious consideration the
means of giving greater efficiency to the Criminal Law, by abating
the present undue rigour of punishment; by improving the state
of the Police, and by establishing a system of transportation and
impritonment, which shall be more effective for the purposes of
example and the amendment of offenders."

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL would not follow
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman through so many
topics, which he had treated N‘ith somuch eloquence.
He was no more an advocate for capital punishment
than his Hon. and Learned Friend ; but he would not
agree to do away with them, when he was convinced
that the state and property of society requfred them.
He could not agree either to this motion, which
tended to no practical measure during the present
Session, but which would bring the whole Criminal
Law of the country into contempt. He thought the
House would not agree to a motion of this kind,
which went to a revision of the Criminal Law, when
they could not be followed by any practical measure
in the present Session. His Hon. and Learned Friend
admitted, that in some cases capital punishments
ought to be allowed to remain as they were; but it
must -also be well known to all, that in many cases
capital punishments were annexed to an offence,
though in few instances the utmost punishment of the
law follows, except in very aggravated cases. He
chewed that very few of those convicted were exe-
cuted. Was the House prepared to receive the
Law and Police of France under the Code Napo-
leon? Unless they were, they must introduce a
new Criminal Law, which would be far more diffi-
cult to be understood than our present Criminal Law.
He attributed the excellence given to the Code Na-
poleon to the Police which accompanied it; but that
system of Police would not do for this country.—
When a Committee was now sitting on the Police, he
thought the House would not adopt a motion of this.
nature. The Committee up stairs was considering the
best mode of causing a strengthening of the Police.
His great objection to the motion was, that it would
increase, and, in fact, render more severe, the num-
ber of our punishments. By the adoption of this mo-
tion they would bring the criminal law and its ad-
ministrators into contempt. He believed that capital
punishments were not more frequently put in execu-
tion than was absolutely necessary. He concluded
by moving the previous question on the motion of his
Hon. and Learned Friend.
Mr. F. BUXTON would not have said a word after
the powerful speech of his Hon. and Learned Friend,
if it had not been that he touched upon other matters
than the question of capital offences. However, he
would say that there were wonderful chances in fa-
vour of the men who were tried for capital offences
over those that were tried for minor offences. Ten
years ago the transporting to Botany Bay was stated
by Lords Liverpool, Sidmouth, and Ellenborough, to
be of no efficacy at all, because persons wished to be
carried to that delightful climate; yet for ten years
they had been offering a boon for the commission of
crime. He read a letter from a convict at Botany
Bay, which was private and confidential, to his wife
—(af laugh).—lt stated, that there were two crops in
the year, that grapes lay in loads on the rocks, and
the peaches ran wild in the fields—(Another laugli)—
and he concluded by saying that he had always a
pound iu his pocket, and that his committing a capi-
tal felony was the best day's work he ever did. The
Emperor Charles V. had his code Carolina, by which
he punished almost all crimes with the utmost seve-
rity; and, the death of the criminal was rendered as
lingering and as cruel as possible. The consequence
was, that they soon wanted informers, witnesses, pro•
secutors, and Judges. Such was the case with the
severity of our Criminal Code. For this reason be
would vote fur the Resolution of his Honourable and
'Learned Friend.
Mr. W. COURTENAY should concur with the

Honors W..
namely,' tiseadostioo
inishnienti.
Secretary PEEL' iris fritpOto se Ai* tb •
tide with the Moth Maier Of Oh Resolution on mini
points, eapschor in polio.* &tribute of approbation-to
those who bad laboured bringing -i!bout what• wax
denominated prison discipline. An idea had goub
abroad, that the object of then individuals was to make,
a prison a_ place of luxury; but the fact was just the
reverse. Their °Sete svas-tO introduce imprbrement
in prison discipline, without which no improvement I
could be made in the. system. He was anxious to
have this subject considered at the earliest opportue
nity, and should on Friday bring in a Bill on the subject!
He could not, therefore, agree to a Resolution which
went to postpone inquiry to next Session. On the
subject of transportatioov he was•persuaded delay till
next Session mighttake place; but on that of a more
vigorous Police, be entirely agreed with the Hon;
Gentleman,. tliat much good might be derived from
it. He thought a'vigilant and effective Police might
be .established in the metropolis, without at all in.
fringit* the liberty oPthe-subject. As to transpor-
tenon, it had been suggested that convicts might be
sent to the Colonies. He should submit that the ex.
periment might be tried, by sending a number of
convicts to Bermuda, to be there placed- under restrainti
as on board the hulks in this country, and employed
for a certain time •on the public works. He could
not agree to a Resolution which went to run down
the system generally, yet suffer nine or ten months
to pass over without proposing any remedy. Rather
than do this he would propoie an immediate consi-
deration of the subject, and an inquiry as to how far
the system was capable of amendment.

Mr. T. WILSON thought as the subject Was to be
taken into consideration on Friday, the present mo-
tion was unnecessary.
Mr. C. WYNN rose, amidst loud cries of Quesiion,
and declared his conviction that a revision of the
system was necessary, but submitted. to his- ions
and Learned Friend, that after the notice which had
been given for Friday, it wouldbe desirable he should
withdraw his present motion.

Sir J. MACKINTOSH expressed his readiness to
withdraw the latter part of his Resolution, which re-
lated to prison discipline, but thought the first pa?t
should stand, and on the Resolution so 'altered he
would take the sense of the House.

The gallery was then cleared for a division—.
For the Resolution - - - 147
For the previous queition - 101
Majority for the Resolution - —l6
NAVIGATION 311. r..

When strangers were ►gain admitted, Mr. Roulivr-
sox was objecting to the going into a consideration
of the Navigation Bill at so late an hour.—(There
was a general cry of " Go on.")
The Order of the Day for the third reading of the
Bill was then read. ..

Mr. DAVENPORT rose to oppose the third
reading of the Bill. The piamoters of this measure
had acted on erroneous principles. If their object
was to increase the Revenue, it would entirely fail,
as the only effect would be to increase smuggling.
There was one clause in the Bill also which would
go utterly to ruin an industrious class of persons, the
silk throwsters, and would instantly threw thousands
out of employ. The Bill would at once overturn
those laws which the wisdom of our ancestors had
established, and under which this country had risen
to eminence and riches. Under these circumstances,
he should move, that instead of now, the Bill should
be read a third time this day six months.
Mr. ROBERTSON opposed the Bill; the provi-
sions in which, he said, would operate to the ruin of
our Levant trade, as all foreigners would, in conse-
quence of the low price at which they could build
their ships, undersell us. Another evil which wotild
result from passing this Bill would be, the ruin of our
coasting trade, and we should be reduced to feed on
sour-crout and soup-meagre. If the Bill passed, in a
few years the whole trade of Europe would be con-
fined to the shores of Holland and France; and all
these sacrifices we should make to set an example to
foreign States, which no foreign State would follow.
Would Russia follow our example, who, in return for
our boon of the Timber Duties, had laid a duty on
our Sugar, and endeavoured to confine all trade to
one of her own ports ? France, and other States would
follow her example, and not ours. They would pro-
' sect their own shipping, though we should desert ours;
for this reason he should second the Amendment.

Sir W. D. CRESPIGNY was decidedly opposed
to the Bill.
Mr. LENNA RD said, there was a clause in the
Bill allowing the South American States to trade
with us; but he begged to remark, that there was no
regular recognition of those States, a circumstance
which must be productive of great inconvenience.
He thought we should follow the example of the
United States, and recognize the South American
States without further delay. Unless some step was
taken by Government on this subject, he would call
the attention of Parliament to it at an early day.

Mr. LITTLETON thought the Bill should be read
a third time, and then to take up the question of
Thrown Silk, on the motion that the Bill do pass.

Sir M. RIDLEY opposed the Bill, on the grounds
that its provisions would be ruinous to the shipping
interests of this country, by destroying our carrying
trade. We must recollect that we were now about
to pass a Bill, giving a boon to foreign States, which,
however it might afterwards be found to injure our;
trade, they would not willingly give up again.
Mr. WALLACE shortly replied to the different
objections made to the Bill. In those countries where
the ships were so cheap, still the English sbipping was
preferred. With respect to the silk trade, much exag-
geration had been practised ; and no trade required
more protection than the trade in silk.
Sir J. BOUGHEY stated that he should ♦ote against
the amendment.

Mr. CANNING thought that much credit was due
to his Right Hou. Friend for eudeavouring .to recon-

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;is - For the Motion 6 6 ;* .47
Against it : ... . . MI
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The iiin was then read a third dine, end poised. • • •
The other Orders of the lit Wile then gone tbrougii; iiiii
the Heels adjourned at HaiNiast Two e'Cloeld
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nanry were Reformers ; and Cede. In the!Cede of England the number of ca. this moth*: Heat tititillielhithiWthr+Abinl*siettaie NA MillgUit dtdi gOt tet thevatejtr foe fisalihig . '• '
trt to. thidectriise of Reform-1. pitid Motes was 220, while in that of France it was with the preeessimeglepresniid Iliad**. ale MO* igearebnib lit taut listillt bid blion,sti, _eope-
se wanted more of the landed only six. From 1811 to 1821 these bad been no in- whiell his Bleyorosebte•irk=lboed Pereia hak iti 81111114 altiragllllobll3h• sb dotal ibliellk,
ice could be done to the cowl- grew afcapital punishments in France, while in this view, nam*,Aisp. Af-the Reitisbar of .-gApPeiliniekii-4 li• hoPetak gisedasente
ein such a Reform as that country the number had been trebled. In the king- i tal punishmenta: . -liiits buts hi did.* endetitied tint
Noble Lord (Russell), and if does of France four-fifths of the. punishments were irn- 1 Mr- Secretary PEEt.; ids totpoivio its Ali* tb epics; hicerstatv which ettwaskellemaiskm..sissak, •
i came before the Hoosp_ hp nrier.......... T.. 1--i_f_ - _- -1. ••-