Star.
London, England, 1812-07-02 00:00:00

chave had not taken place in the features of the Ca-
tholic question. It was of course in the recollection of
the House, that within the last six weeks two attempts
had been made at the formation of a new Admini-
stration, the basis of both which attempts was
conciliation of the Catholics. (Harr, 4,-ar.) One
of the Noble Lords ((his Noble Friend Moira), who
was comthissioned to make* one (.f those attempts,
was so convinced of the necessity of conciliation, that
he might well conclude how favourable to the Catho-
lics were the sentiments of the illustrious person who
gave his Noble Friend that commission. Another al-
teration in the position of the question was, the reso-
lution passed elsewhere ; and much, indeed, dii he
hope, that the decision of this night would leave no
cause for disunion with those who passed that resola-1
tion. What, then, was the present state of the ques.
tion ? It was singly and nakedly this—whether the re-
strictions which degraded the Catholic below his Pro-
testant fellow-subject should now be done away ?
(Hear.)—Whether Parliament should now, by one
great act of legislative wisdom and national generosity,
unite all classes of his Majesty's subjects in detence oil
the common rights of their common country against
the common enemy ? (Hear, hear.) Would this, and
he put it to the Noble Lord on the woolsack, be pull-,
ing down the barriers of the State ? Would it not;
on the contrary, be OS rearing up of impregnable
bulwarks for its protection ? It was said that the
Cathacs had already got much. They did get much;
and it should not be forgotten, too, that all they ob-
tained was in the reign of his present Majesty. But i
in his opiuion, the concessions hitherto made were j
arguments for extending them. They were additional
motives to conciliation. He said, that whatever the r
Roman Catholics got, was in the reign of his present
Majesty. Yes, iu the 11th and Illth of his reign it I
was that the situation of the Catholics was first taken
into consideration. Then it was that for the first time
the Catholics were permitted, in their own country,
to be possessors of fifty acres of bog-land for a term
of GI years, together with half an acre of arable ,
land, provided that half acre was not within a mile!
of a town ! This concession was followed by that
of 1776, which gave to the Catholics the power of
taking leases for 999 years ; and by that of 1782,1
which put the Catholic on the same footing with the
Protestant, not in a political light, hut as to the pur-
chase and disposal of land. In 1793, the right of
election was vested in the Catholics ; that tight, of
which they had been deprived since the first or second
year of Geo. 11. Did any of their Lordships expect I
to keep the Catholics stationary in the situation, to
which, by progressive enactments, they had thus been .
raised ? In his notion of this free Constitution, he un-
, derstood, that under it there was a natural connection
ber.w..'en property and power. The Catholics were per.:
mitted to acquire property ; and power must follow it.:
Any attempt to separate power from property, or to
keep them, when in existence, from uniting, would, !
lie was convinced, not only disturb the tranquillity,
but would endanger the stabil.ty of the State. It
would have been better never to have gra::ted any :
thing to the Catholics, than thus to stop short, and I
put up tier ever a hart ier against their claims. He
begged the House not to discourage the arduous and
lhonest efforts which the Catholics were making for
their freedom; which a virtuous, and, he would say, I
an illustrious portion of the people of this empire, !
were making for the obtainment of a most praise-
woi thy and glorious object. If the House acted so
ainwise a par, the natural consequence would be,
that those arduous efforts would be turned into ano-
ther.channel, and might, in their effect, be as des!
sti nctive to the common-wealth, as inimical, undoubt-
edly, to the Catholics themselves. He was led to
these remarks by a paper which he held in his hand,
v..hich stated, and, he believed, fairly stated, that not :
less than 7000 places were, by the operation of the'
existing penal laws, shut up from the Catholics.—
Whelk he.said that the navy and army, and bar, were
almost totally ;lit of their retch, this assertion would
not be considered groundle:;s. The Noble Duke then
concluded his speech, with deploring that any thing
like violence should have bcon mingled in the con-
duct of the Catholics. They had given expression to
violent sentiments, which lie must blame, and which
must injure instead of serving their gcod cause.
Lord HA RRO WBY said, the present Session was
the first instance in which he had considered himself
at liberty to entertain the question, with a view to
any practical advantage being derived from the con- :
sideration of it. The Noble Lord then took .a review
of the several transactions which have recently taken
place in Leland, and adverted to the Resolutions
which had recently been adopted by the Catholic
Committee. He regretted these Resolutions as much
as any person could do, because he considered they ,
would operate so as to injure their claims. Ho could '
not, howt. yer, forget, that they were come to under
feelings of considerable irritation and disappoint-
ment. The proposition of the Noble Marquis of to-
night was, that the question should be taken into con-
siJeration—and to those who thought concessions in
full, or in part, with or without securities, it would
be unnecessary for him to say any thing to convince
them of the necesssity of consideration, and that it
should be adopted at as early a period as possible ;
and none but those who were inimical to any conces-
sion whatever, -would oppose the Noble. Marquis's
motion. In his ( Lord H. s) opinion, the best secu-
rity we could have would be the security of general
feeling. He concluded by expressing himself favour-
able to the motion.

would be more properly considered; if tlite'ficittie rye
solved to examine the subject. While he was read
to express his warmest wishes fir a oonciliat
arrangement, he could not avoid eepressing his s
sere regret at sonic of the. Resolutions sr/kt had%
lately passed in Ireland. Ththleachingnnen of oh
class from which those Resolutions prikeeded, hr
hitherto conducted themselveswith the graatest tern
and moderation. He would leave it to the laseralit
of the House, whether it was not probable that th
Resolutions proceeded from the sodden ebullition an
heat of a few wild heads ; and that they were not
sober and deliberate expressions of those tren wh
had always lk!tore conduced themselves with the ut
most temper and moderation. He was favourabieto
the present question, as considering it the fitst gem-
ral question which went to the amelioratioa of Ire
land. He thought that the situation of the lower
classes of the.conimunity in that part of the United
Kingtham, had long and loudly called fur legislative
relief; an. ire hoped that the present questioh would
be followed by the proposal of oZtzr me Imre+ for re
medyilig the griev roses under which the po ir of ire•
land now lab ow. With this v.ew, as well as that of
conciliation, he felt happy in ruppoiting the anatioat
of the Nobl.! M trquis.
, The Archbishop of CANTERBURY thought's
that all those who were of opii.ion that the claims
might, under some restrictions, be acceded to, would
best express that opinion by voting its fa -our of the
present motion. He feared, indeed, is it it would.be
generally conceived that those who vhoirld vote :Tomtit
it, were for shooting the disc: agati... di colsikr.cion
whatever of the subject.—(lLor.)—lf the oil, a of '
'conciliation, and of securing tloi established religion
from danger, could be effected by any measure to be
proposed, it would be an obje-t of the highest price
and the question deserved the tuloo consitimation
There were certain difficulties to orrnottottol; but
those difficulties ought not, in his opini 1, to, prevent
the full consideratiou of the question. Ili: thought
the House would do well to bear in mind, that u he.
ther the present motion WAS rejected or nut, still the
question must unavoid tbly be discussed again in 'he
course of the next Session. It had been said, that
more was intended than was professed. If that were
the case, he would still wish to reserve himself against
those intentions ; but at present he should support the
motion.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH was at a loss to ac-
count for the new light which appeared to have
broken in upon Parliament on this ques ion. A very
new and extraordinary alumina:on had lately burst
open the minds of some Noble Lords in the House.
The Noble Marquhi, (Marquis Wellesley), has first
seen this new light,—this day-star,—since the 30th
of last January (hear.) Until that time he must class'
himself among the persecutors. &tore he was con.
verted, he might say as the Apostle of the Geatiles,
who had been present at the martyrdom of Stephen,
that though he himself had not stoned him with
stones, yet he was consenting to it, and took care I
of the young men's dodos who stoned him. lhe
Noble Lorsl, however, had not given the House his
reasons for this sudden conversion. A Nohle Earl
( Harrowby ), hadalso seen this new light,and was now 1
in favour of the motion. As for himself, lie was a man
of plain and simple habits, :Ltd loved consistency and
truth above all things. As to his Noble Fr ends near him
(Lords Grey and Grenville), they had been consis-
tent throughout in their opinions, and had evinced
their sincerity by the sacrifice of office and power, to j
those opinions whin they II id so long and so ably
maintained. That for which they swot out of office
was net one hundredth part of what the present mo-
Lion aimed at, and yet he could hot then agree with
them in their opis:iuns. He then uifflred with them,
not en the principle that nothing should he done her
conciliation with the Catholics; but that h: was un-
willing to pit with the staff of power, Iliad he knew
whether it might not be wanted fur the defeoce of the
Protestant reitgion— (Hear, hear.) As to considering
the laws which pressed too severely oil the Catholics,
he believed that any man of good understanding
would be able in a day, or in a few hours, to point out
what imme‘lettely required repeal. He never could,
howeves, bring himself to look upon the Roman Ca.
tholics in the same light as the lhotestant Dissenters,
as they owned a foreign allegiance. Ile allowed that
this objection might be something weakened by due'
present circumstances of the Pop.: ; but it must be i
recollected also that it was Bonaparte who had hint
in fetters. Under such circumstances, he still saw
great danger from this foreign allegiance, and there.
lore he should oppose the present muUun. •
Lord HOLLAND declared his firm adherence to
the principles on which his Noble Friends rested the 1
Claims of the Roman Cath ifics on former
occasions.
After hearing all the objections which had been raised
against the admis..ihn of thqie Claims, his own opi-
nion remained firm and unalterable, that it was nut
necessary, fur the preservation of the Established Re-.
ligion, that the Catholics should give, or be called
upon to give, the security %shiest the Noble and
Learned Lord on the Woolsack alluded to. The
Noble Lord, in his judicial capacity, certainly had a
right to decide according to the existing laws, but he I
(Lord Holland) thought it his duty, in his legions
tive capacity, to act otherwise than by moving the
previous question. It was very true that the laws
of the country were very severe upon the Catholics ;
but it ought also to be remembered, that the
Earl of Shaftesbury, and other enlightened Members
of that House, ohjected to them at the time of

, The • DUKE of KENT said, that he could not / their being passed, on the ground, that they were an
infringement upon the liLerties cf the subject...-.
avoid expressing his most anxious and warmest wishes, j
j The Test Act, in particular, was a law of that de-
that when this subject should come into discussion,
• scription, because it bound aMember of either House.
it might not be considered so much a Catholic ques-
f
tion as a conciliatory question.—(Hear, hear.)-- from exercising his own free opinion .upon the pre-
Havingjpriety of tolerating the exerci .e of the Roman Catlso-
been educated in the principles of the e3ta- 1
- lie religion. He sae' dot tae most remote danger j
Wished religion, he naturally felt a strong predilec
that could be apprehended, by die firmest friends of
tion in its favour, and there was no consideration
which attached him more to it, than his firm belief, the Established Religion, from the complete ernan-
cipation of the Irish Catholics. At all the Meetings
that there was no religion more liberal and tolerant
which that respectable body hyld, they -solemilly re-
wasasserted, that they disavowed U.ose pi inciples whit!'
in its spirit (hear.) If he really thought that there I
any chance of the established religien being sub. j
verted, by entering into a discussion of the Catholic their church was supposed to maintain, such as,
claims, he would be the' last man to vote for the ills- that no faith was to be kept eith lietetics ; and they.
cession. It appeared to him, however, generally, with equal solemnity, dlsavowqd any intention or
that those civil sights which were claimed by the desire to overturn .the Protestant Letabiobeseue ia‘
Catholics, were rietts which all the subjects living these kingdoms. With what propriety could a Bri-
under the British Constitutien might naturally con- ' tish Pat liarnent tell the whole Catholic population,
ceive themselves entitled to. In granting those rights,' you shall not sit in either House of Parliaenent, you
he should zertainly wish, that care should be taken I shall not command a fleet or an army, bat you.fiave
to guard and protect the established religion. What proved yourselves worthy of holding subordivateranks
guards and securities might be supposed necessary, iu lighting the battles I thescowitry. The kotupobiti4ll