Star.
London, England, 1831-07-30 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PAR MAN/ E:OT.

HOUSE OF LORDS—Juror 29.
FOREIGN POLITICS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, seeing a noble marquis
in his place, begged to ask him if lie had any objection to
postpone his motion, which stood for Monday, until some
other day. It would be a matter of convenience to him if
the noble marquis could do so. In consequence of certain
ceremonials, it was the intention to adjourn till Tuesday.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY consanted to post-
pone his motion until Tuesday se'nnight. At the same time
the noblemorquis was desirous of asking the noble Earl
(Grey) a question relative to the papers laid on the table
yesterday by his Majesty's command. The protocol was
signed in April, and the letter to the French government
was dated the 17th July, three months after the protocol
took plans. The noble marquis wished therefore to ask whe-
ther there had been any communication by the plenipoteu.
tiarlss to the French government prior to that letter. It was
of importance to ascertain that fact, because the letter of the
14th July was described to be a voluntary communication.
There was a singular passage in the protocol. It was said
the undersigned had no objection to give publicity to this
protocol, as they did to another, and the inference was that
some reluctance had been shown to give publicity to their

proceedings,
Earl GREY was not aware of the contents of any letter
sent by Prince Talleyrand to which the letter alluded to by
the noble marquis might be deemed an answer.
TRZ QUIST'S DORMS.
On the motion of Earl GREY, the Queen's Dower Bill
was read the second time.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE and the Earl of
CARLILSE presented petitions from Ireland, for the ir.-
troduction of the poor laws, and the extension of education.
SMALL ITNEFICAS SILL.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY moved the order
of the day for the second reading of his bill for the memo-
union of small benefices. The most rev. prebte'commencal
by recommending their lordships to peruse a letter sent by
Lord Harrowby to Mr. Percival, when that statesman was
in office, en the subject of church livings. Their lordships
would find in that letter correct details on the appropriation
of the ecclesiastical revenues, intended originally for the sup-
of the parochial clergy. The inequality of church
livings, was one of the prevailing abuses up to the Re-
formation. Boas time after the Reformation, a room.
mendation was given to parliament to provide for the
support of the poor clergy. The remedy was an Act
passed in the reign of King Charles, which it was proposed
in the present instates* to extend. The most reverend pre-
late stated the prlndple of his measure, which would enable
commisiioners *inquire into livings, and make equitable
arrangements between sedans and curates. The most re.
verend prelate beesght !toward a similar measure two years
ago, and found the greatest encouragement from the noble
duke then in office. It was but justice to say, the late go-
vernment and the present had afforded him every facility.—
They were ready to promote measures proposed by the heads
of the church, for the accomplishment of an object acknow-
ledged by all to be of the highest importance. The good
his grace intended to effect was a work of time, but the whole
body of the church would be ready to promote the under-
taking. His grace concluded by moving the second reading
of the bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR having been alluded to
by the most Reverend Metropolitan. considered himself
bound to express his satisfaction with respect to the bill.
He did not anticipate the slightest objection to the measure
from any quarter. because there was nothing so mischievous
in ecclesiastical affairs as the small amount of Wine benefices,
amounting in some cases to not mote than 601. a year. A:
that time there were from eight to ten hundred livings ,
which did not exceed 501. a year, and some not more than
251. Their Lordenips often gave their menial servants
601. per annum, and could it be endured that the educated
Ministers of the Gospel were to be placed on the same
footing ? The Noble and Learned Lord did not doubt
that lay impropriators, colleges, and patrons, would take
the opportunity of augmecting small livings, but those
augmentations could not be made without the parties came
to an understanding. In Scotland there was not a poor living
under 1501. a year, yet the average of Sc itch livings was
less than the average of livings in England.
The Bishop of LONDON was convinced the Church of
England would not suffer by inquiry into its revenue. One
great advantage would be derived from inquiry. The truth
would be known, instead of those exaggerated false state-
ments which daily deceive the public. It would turn out
that double the amount of the livings of the Church of Eng.
land would not reach one.third of the sum which had been
stated. The people of this country had a right to look at
the gradual improvement of church property, provided it
could be improved without any violation of the great prin.
ciple of the Protestant establishment. The subject would
call for considerable inquiry and minute consideration, be.
fore any plan could be adopted. As it appeared probable
every attention would be paid to all that was necessary, he
should not trouble their lordships as to the means by which
the objects were to be accomplished. The great effort should
be the removal of anomalies. A great diminution might be
made, and the lower benefices placed upon more equality.
The plan proposed by the most rev. prelate had his entire
concurrence. He regarded it as the commencement of mea-
sures for the amelioration of the condition of the clergy.
The bill was then reed the second time, and ordered to
be committed on Wednesday.
The house then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The house debated with closed doors till half-past six on
the following question :—Yesterday a Committee was ap-
pointed to try the merits of a petition, complaining of an
undue return for the City of Dublin. Before the members
were sworn it was discovered that one of them had voted on
the election ; in consequence of which an objection was raised
to their being sworn, and the discussion of the question was
postponed to this day. After a long discussion a division
took place, when it was decided by 100 to 82 that a new
Committee should be balloted for, which was accordingly done
and the Committee were subjequently sworn at the table.
Mr. H. BULWER presented a petition from Coventry,
praying that the reform bill might be passed without delay.
He thought hon. gentlemen ought to abstain from making
funeral orations over departed boroughs. The petition was
read by the clerk, and stated that the petitioners viewed
with great alarm the eforts made by an interested minority of
the house to defeat the measure. supported by the majority,
for the benefit of the whole British nation.
The SPEAKER said he was confident the hon. member's
sense of propriety would cause him to withdraw a petition
so disrespectfully worded towards the members of that
' house.
Mr. BULWER said he agreed in the opinion of the pe-
t but after the intimation he had riceived would
withdraw the petition.
31r. HOBHOUSE brought in a bill for the regulation of
Vestries in England and Wales.
Read a first time, and ordeed to be read a rccond time on
Monday se'nnight.
Lord ALTHORP said, that from circumstances it had
been judged proper not to sit on Monday next, and it had
been considered by his Majesty's tiovernment that it would
be too long to adjourn from Friday till Tuesday, and there
being a commission for to-morrow (this day), the House
could proceed with the Reform Bill by twelve o'clock.
Mr. C. WINN objected to the notice, and said, that he
thought it too much to sacrifice so much time for the sake
of suffering his Major?. Ministers to dine with the City
Authorities of London.

ck.veral ItIESIBERS gave their opinions.
Lord J. RUSSELL, in reply, said, that the h I.,,nther
had said that even the reform bill must be form', r. f
sake of city festivity, but he would remind thrill t,t,tt
had never entered upon the reform bill on Monii,w.
Mr. HUAIE admit•ed that the vacancy of a day nd
be a hardship on th'te whose interests were all:cd •
committees. He was one of t :rise who had intended

present at the ceremony cf op.a.ing London Bridget bu.
was sorry to heat it insinuatod that his Majesty's Minister.
or any other person, were giviag weir attendance for
sake of a dinr.cr. In fact, it was lint to be a dinner, if

only to be a breakfast ; and he had 1:t0e d ,übt but fo,
that his Majesty's Ministers, rr any tre the, would
there, that they would probably inv.b.fast at htme first,
then go home to dinner. (A laugh.) Bat he th sogl
perfectly consistent, after so long pre:tsrat ion, art' the st
wish manifested in the city, that hie :Ilajesty's Mini
and.the Hen. Speaker of the House, should have au 11
tunity of attending at the ceremony. It was dor It
city, and it was necessary, out of reepect to his Mai
who was to be present on the eansinti.
Mr. K NIGHT insisted that the ipieslion should hi
in such a shape as to take the sense of the house upati it
Lord A LTHORP explained Ono it wt the form fa
the intention first, and the question was decided who
hease asked leave to sit again.
Mr. KNIGHT contended that it v ould involve
moral men who bad engagements made for Saturday, in
inconvenience, if they had to attend the house.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY begged to remind the le,
gentleman, that by his parliamentary responsibility he
bound to be ready to attend every dry at ten o'clock,
that parliamentary duties were patamount to all othtre
was at variance with all rule to make parliamentary
subservient to professional considetatione. and hon. gent!
should consider it before they undertook them ; and I
ances, iu courtesy, al:cattle' be male io his Majesty's Ot
ascot in such cases.
Mr. ATT WOOD said, that ministers were such olsjoet
of suspicion, that they wer. themselves desirous to del
the Bill, and the line they now proptnetal would strength
that suspicion. He would prelatic, as an amendment,
the house at Its rising adjourn till Tuettelay.
Sir H. HARDINGE thought tbat this amendment
be unfair to his Majesty's ministers. and attended wt.
convenience; but lie would suggest that the ref. rm
should form no part of the discussion of Saturday.
Mr. WA RBURTON taunted ministers with Its
wish to meet the Common Couted.
Lord ALTHORP replied to the different objee:linr
said that he cousidercd the arrangement neccerary.
A long conversation followed, in %%latch the great, I
her spoke in oppoaitien.
Lord ALTHORP then proposed that the mom
should come down at two o'clock, and compiete the da,
Another long conversation followed.
Lord ALTHORP said he would be inclined to perste,
drat the House meet en Saturday at two tient Lett' tl.
house should not sit Noce than twelve o'tlqck 10-LW
night.)
Mr. PR 'RD sp. ke ; t great length is epeositioa.
assigned, as one great r..es.in, that no police had hie
He threatened that if they did meet to.litorroi (this
and any borough was ti be clastrani hised, that le worfl
fend the prectice in that case of restoring to the unpopu:
measure of moving for adjoornnunts. lte 101 l osed tl:
notice should now be given, and that a re..zular 'notion be
brought terward to sit on Saturday ne Xt. - A wtangiing con-
versation followed.

Mr. sounplained that t'iis na;ize should have
been kept so secret and expee ted I hoselt with some wainttit
that the arrangement should bav:: been couthved a few se.
kct menibers.
Mr. R. PRICE said :hat he wax somewhat aNtonished at
. .

....
what had fallen from the hen. member who had spoke 15,,,
in saying that the arrangentement had been nt ale with a ti.w
select members ; for lie (11r. Price) had tint been one of
those tilP that day, and the I.ousr would perhaps be equally
surprised to hear that the only confidant he had made on ti-e
subject war the hon. member ( )Ir. Littman) whom he ILA
mtt up stairs at dinner :.bout five o'clock.. a: d he then emit.
municated to hint what was the intent.on o n iuisteta. The
hon. member (Mr. Reteson) at that time. inroad ef t xpre --
I sing himself with the indignatien that het ow men:!iatct',
must cmdially aqui, sc. d wi h the y of the wriaog, -
'tient. lie thougsit it improp. rof :11 I. n. member
these uses of private .1 d !l',C toltece :.e
a part of parliamentary th.cisee.t. n.
Another long 0411JC I WiliklU a cso el.
Mr. O'CONNELL said. he th 'ie.:hi it h n te:sary
that the public should see tl at the Itoutte wt• desir. u. to
=forward with the reform bill, and tee that pulite se the
should meet on Saturday. Q it welt only tot two hour,.
After some more tonrersatio.,.. in he emu,. of 'Men )Ir.
ATTWOOD gave make that in cosnanittee he should cu.,
that the chairman c,•;. 1, are it. sit .q.;41:1 *l'mwhy ttex.,
the house went into commit•te.

East Grimsby was de;!,t;ed part of set•edule B after a
few words from Mr. C. ELIIAII.I. wt.tch Wire w•t
in the gallery.
On the motion thr.• Ouildfortl form pun of the awhe'uP,
Mr. DENNIS()S: ',tot 11e rme wto ruluctirce in ppu.
bition to Ilinistars. of wuape ni,asure he was the war I. and

steady friend. He had, I (meet r, a duty to perform awards
the inb.tbilants of Guinhor.l. According to the memorial
which he held in 1:6 I:, d, and wh:eh was signed b, the
Mayor and Aldermen of Guildford, the population
ford, in 1821, amounted to 4.212, and not to 3,161, as
stated in the population return of ihat VrAr. That pa tof
the parish of Stoke, %hitt was within the borough, and con.
tallied 562 inhabitants, had been un.itted in the itturn ; as
also parts of the pari.lks of St. N el.olaa, the Holy Triuo„
and St. Mary. not within the borough, but with the town
of Guildford, and rontaming togther a population of
489. (Hear, hear.) The same Mayor load jurisilletion ut et.
all these parishes, according to a chart, rof James 11. The
junction he proposed would not include any rural Isom 1..
lion. It would comprise V5O heusei, of the value of
Guildford paid in as,e,n.ed taxes the large annual amount of
1,9601. The constituency con.totid of freeholder. and free.
men, all resident, and independent • etector, •ho had re_
turned Members since the tune of Edward I. There ie:is
not a purer constituency than that of Guildford. Finally,
Guildford was a country town. Under these circumstances,
he hoped Ministers would consent to remove it from sche-
dule B. But, whatever might be their decision. it would
not abate his attachment, either towards themselves, or to.
wards their great treasure.—(llear, hear.)
Mr. MANGLES spoke on the same side.
An Hon. bliestnen, together with Mr. Bear, gave their
testimony to the respectability of the Guildford consitti-
ency.
Lord J. RUSSELL admitted all the merits of the town

of Guildford. But, according tu the Hon. Member's or et
statement, the borough did rot comprise more tit to
3,723 inhabitants, adding to the 3,161 in the return of 1811
the 562 inhabitants of a part of Stoke.
Sir C. WETHERELL repeated part of the arguments of
the tint Speaker. Ministers *ere erasing the county tow.*
with as little ceremony as the 11,:lgic fortre*ses.
Sir J. SCARLETT, having been connected wi h Goi'd-
ford, could speak to the independence and wealth of :Is

constituency.
lord A LTHORP said, this was a c.tse nearly s miler to
that of Dorchester. To make up 4,000 inhabitants an ex.
tent must be comprised which was not within the borcugn.
lie agreed that Guildford had a most respectable cunst.tu-
oncy, but it was not a place of such importance, eompamil
to the rest of the population of the kingdom, as to tntitk it
two members.—( Hear.)
Sir .1. SCARLETT said, there was here no rural pops.
lation.

After a few words from an hon. 51ESIBIR,
Mr. DENNISON said, the very point on which minis.
ten differed with him, was the including of 489 inhabitants
of Holy Trinity, St. Nicholas, and St. Mary's. Now,
these iohabitants, though not within the borough, were
within the town, and he thought should be comprised in the
population. (Hear.)
Sir E. SUODEN remarked that anobjectinn cnmirg teem
the other side of the house wu listened to much more atten-
tively than on coming from his aide. A great differenceke-
tween the present case and that of Dorchester was, that au re
was here no rural population, hardly any distance between tit
places It was proposed to unite, while the population anti
wealth was greater. He (Sir E.Sugden)eontendtd that he did
not know how any reasonable man could have any reason-
able objection to the continuation of the present cumber of
members for Guildford,' especially as it complied with the
noble lord's line. There wore upwards of 4000 population,
a continuous town, a county town, and an immense number
of 101. (and upwards) houses; where, then, was the justice
of resisting this ease ?
Mr. HUGHES HUGHES lamented that the go,ert:-
ment had not seen the necessity Rod justice of taking O.tlia •
•
ford out of the present schedule.
Sir J. BRIDGES spoke to the like effect.
Mr. HUNT said he knew Guildford as well as the *tunal.

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Caine; and con:, :Aled that if C.:lnc, en infatmus nomina•
Lion borough. hml a member. on every principle of justice-
Guildford ought to !rive at least six members. (Cheers and
laugh.) He should not oppose the present motion ; but
hen the propel in, arrived, be should propose to introduce
:he eternal Caine i ,to schc.ittle A.

?Ir. PUSEY thought the noble lord would not be depart.
anc iron the pri-rinle of the bill by excluding this borough
frmon i.rheduk U. tbvre bring upwards of three hundred 101.
11Jose., though ill^ pop:dation was under 4.000.
Thr r. al. cleurcil for a eivilion. The numbers were,
For lb.! rrmion 253
Against it 186

313jority for it ... ..

Ilelstnne" was next.pat and carried.
'.l.!e CHAIRMAN next named " Honiton." (Cheers
and laughter.',
Sir GEOII GE WA RR F.NDER irnmediVely rose. He
40 tinikti with continued. loud. ard long rounds of cheer•.
and vollies of lattgater. lie said. be regretted that he c"tld
not participtte in t!:e hilarity of those around him, for lie
rose to pronounce a fu-eral merino over Monitors. He did
not intend to divide the Co:nu:it:re on the questic", :Are
the d.cisions that had been eeme to. (War ) He cur-
'deleted that these were acts of injustice, end there were is
co ..sequence of them great chances taking place in the pub-
lic tt.ind, and in tile opinions of members of that hnase.
)lanv members who had voted in the mal,wities respecting
Appl,hy, D.iwnton, Chipp.mhant, and Dorchester. after-
flan!. i.ad admitted to hitn that they acre " hard" ca-es.
Ile repeated, that he should not divide the Comntittee, he
should be a party to registering this edict of injustice but
It:: relied on " another place," which in the cases of till-
ewe Bills had frequently corrected private injuries. tint it
would prevent the publie injustice now threatened. (Cheers.)
It schedule 11. were pressed, it would be the death of the
bill.

Mr. GI SBORNE (alto spoke from the gallery) denied
ilt.tt they were registering the edicts of irjustice or the wiil
t•t the ministers ; but they were obeying the public voice.
Hear.) He complained of conversation attributed vaguely
different members ; it was a %t`f t of insinuaticm that he
thought was not warranted. Jud2i.ig from himself and
trim ell those he knew, the votes had been given from the
L-mvietion that the disfranchisements were just and requisite
to carry the bill, and properly to correct and amend the
representation.
Mr. I'EACEVAL said the hon. member had admitted
tl:;.t they did not follow the ministers, but the popular cla-
mour. He believed that was the fact, and the moment they
ii:itsed blindly to follow that popular feeling, the little
iv, i.tht they had would soon melt away. (Hear.)
The motion was then carried amidst considerable cheering.
Huntingdon was next named.
Mr. J. PSEI, oppposed the motion. It was unjust, but
he relied on the justice of another tribunal.
Mr. JAMES said the real question here was whether they
should take away two members from Lord Sandwich and give
one to the town of Huntingdon. (Hear.)
• Motion agreed to. _

ilythe was next put, and agreed to without comment.
Launceston wan next r.ame(L

Sir J. 31Al•COLBI observed that the borough was in
reality situated in five parishes ; and to limit the borough to
one parish was refl.ming an injustice on it. It ought not to
deprivtd of the privilege of sending two members. The
inh,thitanta in reality numbered 5,400. But it was useless
to enumerate facts—they were not listened to, county-towns
were disregarded, and places where assizes had been held.
He had txpretetl justice ; but found none. The justice was
efthe 6' Jedburgh ' kind—such as they had on the borders-
- hang first, and try afterwards." (Hear.) There appeared
to be now no other principle than that of novelty. Let this
measure be carried, and no one could say where the applica.
tc.n of the principle of novelty would end. Ile, however,
!:.r what had passed, did riot think he should the
motittee on the subject.
sir H. HARD! adviu,l his hon. friend not to divide
ti.e Committee. Where was the use ? Repeated divisions
riy produced about the same results, so that It was in fact
ti.eless to divide ; they had only to divide against pledged
wajorities.—(that, hear.) An arbitrary line had been
erta.n. but when it suited the noble lord it was found to be
an elastic principle.
The motion was agreed to.
Liskeard was then ',anted.

lord ELLIOT said, he should not divide the Com-
mittee, bte.tuse the population of Liskeanl was now above
4,t0); that aas not the cam when the census was taken In

Motion agreed to.
Lyme Itegi4 was then named,—and motion carried.
Lymington was neat put.
Mr. CHOKER said be deemed the cue similar to
Ccekermouth—but after the decision on that occasion, he
would not oppose the question further in the Committee.
Mr. BURKA RD spoke to the like effect, and contended
tLac the cae.e was severe upon this borough.-3lotion
c4rtied.
31.thlon was then named.

Sir. Q. DICK was understood to speak in defence of the
borough, but he was very imperfectly heard in the gallery.
Mr. LEN NA RD said his constituents were such decided
friends to the great measure of Reform, that they were de-
sirous to support it even at the loss of a part of their
own franchise. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. WESTERN said he had represented Malden twenty
years, and would be exceedingly glad if he could vote for
taking it out of the schedule, but according to the rule laid
down it was impossible, though Nlaldon was not &amine.
tim! borough ; on the contrary it was most fruitful in conten.
tion ; and he believed the hon. gentleman, from the other
tile of the channel, spent not less than twenty thousand
pounds in his first attempt to get possession of blaldon,
which after all for that time proved abortive, tho' ha had
since been more successful.

Colonel SIBTHORP said he bad been called on to stand
candidate for the repreaentation, and from what he had
now heard was very glad he had not obeyed the call—(a
lAugh); still he would support the right of Maldon to have
(en reprksentatives.

Sir 'CHARLES WETHERELL, opposed the die-
f•inchisement of Msldon.

Mr. Alderman WAI rn MAN said, it was lamentable to
sei. the time of the house taken up by such a discussion.
Mahlon WAS notoriously corrupt ; they cared cot who re-
prerente,i them so be spent sufEnent money.
Mr. HARVEY said he was a burgess of Maldon, and
never knew any corruption in it.
Mr. WESTERN said, his contests had been very ex-
y*craive front bringing voters from a distance, but he never
lanyw any corruption.

Mr. I.;F.NNA RD said, the eipessc of the contests for
Malden arose from bringing its great number of voters from
a di-ranee ' • he never knew of ail corruption.
The resolution was agreed to.
'I he CH AIRMAN put the question that he should re-
rent progress, and ask leave to sit agair.
r;.ir R. PEEL asked, was it the noble lord's intention
ii t the House should sit to-morrow. He thought it would
l.e infinitely better to sit later than such an arrangement, as
sitting- to-morrow would be unjust. He only heard of the
imen.ion at nine e.lock that morning; arid as no novice was
raver. many had trade arrangements to go to the country for
Saturday and Sunday. Many also wino were cn Election
Committees could not be prepared to state die case of their
constituents. when the boroughs which they tepresen cd were
about to he disfranchised. (Hear.)
Lcrd ALTA Olt P said, he was pressed by many support-
ers of the Bill to sit on Saturdav ; and as it would be expe-
dient to adjourt: over Monday, he should persevere in mov.
ing that the )inure meet at two o'clock this day. (Hear.)—
lle was confirmed in this deternitration by the loss of time
that had taken place this evening in discussions on the Dub-
-1.11 1-..l..ctinti Committee. _ _ .

Mr. ATTW Of said. he should not object to sitting on
ir'zturday, the Reform Bill was not brought forward. He
was satisfied the minority would Men to the constitutional
means of protecting itself.
The house

The CH.I IR MAN reported progress, and asked leave to
sit again 'his day.
Air. SPENCER PERCEVAL implored the noble lord
not to press hie pro ition to sit again that day.
The CHA NC ELLposOR of the EXCHEQUER adhered
to biA determination.
S,r R. I'EEL said that speed ought always to be con-
sistent a ith fairness. He could not attend on Saturday, and
he would tot. It would be perfectly fair for the noble lord
to propose that the house sit on the same question on Satur.
d iy week, it' he wished an additional day.
After a tew words from Mr. G. Lomas, Mr. Doxox,
end Sir H. Hammier,
Sir C. WETHERELL contended that the press had as-
st.m.d an ascendancy over ministers, who by their haste in,
g to sit again that day, were evidently giving way
to it.

Alta a conversation between Mr. T. P. Courtenay, Sir
It. Price, 31r. Ewan, Sir G. Murray, and several others,

the house diVidtd on the questlon that the committee sit
again this day, when there appeared
That the committee sit again this day .. 216
Against it ... 143
Majority in favour of ministers 73
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the house adjourned at three o'clock.