Star.
London, England, 1806-06-27 00:00:00

AAAAA UPT LAWS.

The SOLICITOR GENERAL rofe, purfuant to
his notice of yellerday, to move for leave to bring in
a bill for amending certain of the Laws refpeding
Statutes of Bankruptcy. He felt it necelTary to ex-
plain to the Houle, the principles and °Neds of the
Bill he wilted to bring forward. It was not a Bill
- for the revifion and amendment of all the Bankrupt
Laws, however neccifary and deferable fuels a Bill
really was—it was a Bill merely calculated to reach
a few-of the many oppreffive evils which now elat-
ed under a part of thole Laws, and which, the more
they came to be eonfidered, the greater mutt be the
allonalmentthat they had Cu long continued to elude
the notice of the Legiflature, without any fort of re-
niedfl frir it was inspoiGhle for any man, not dually
in the preface of confidering and ailing under chafe
laws, to conceive that evils Co glaring. and fo preg.
giant with tnifchief, injußice, and oppreflino, could
coin hi any well regulated commercial country. One
of the principles to which he alluded, as obtaining
under thofe laws, was the retrofpeeive operation of
the Statute of Bankruptcy upon all bargains. fates,
And deeds, covenants, and tranfadions, entered
into by the Bankrupt, even fo far as five years pre-
vious to the aerial iffuing of the astute, fubfequent
Many date on which it could be made to appear
that he had committed an ad of bankruptcy, shim'
the perfon with whom fuch contrail was made could
by no known reference, or any poffibility. have the
(lighten knowledge or fofpieion that any fuch ad of
bankruptcy had been committed; and which fad
might be a profound fecret in the bofdm of the bank-
rupt himfelf, or tome one or other of his fervants.—
For Mitotic., a man in full trade, and unimpeached
credit, and with the general reputation and (hew of
great (Toltec', may be hind of a valuable (Rate,,
which he fells to another man for an equally valuable
confideration, under every legal form of regular con-
veyance. He cannot have the moll dillant doubt as
to the validity of a title whieb no man at the time
-curt queltion, and which is clearly deinonilrated and
proved to him and his Law Agents; he cannot have
the flighteß contemplation that the perfon of whom
he purchafes will, tome years after, become a bank-
rupt or that he may have, previouQy to fuch ma-
chete% done fume aft which, in point of form, may
be contlrued into an ail of bankruptcy, but which,
to all the world but himfelf, or fame of his fervent..
k a profound fecret. Yet, in five years afterwards,
the feller becomes a bankrupt; and it is proved, per-
haps on the collative fuggeftion of the bankrupt him.
Pelf, that previoufly to his tale of the Mate, be had
committed this keret aft of bankruptcy ; which,
•
without any other plea whatever, completely invali-
dates the tale, datives the right and title of the pur •
chafer, and configns the eßate over to the affignees of
the bankrupt. for the general benefit of his creditors.
The enormous mifehief of fuch a principle, moll be
too obvious to require any comment—and the rui-
nous confequences to which it mutt expofe every
matt who ventures to pnrchafe an came of another,
under the utter impotfibility of knowing, or even
fnfpelting the ezillence of a fecret tranfadion at the
moment he is concluding the bargain, that might,
five years after. rob him of his (Rate, and reduce
-him to beggary, mull be ferioufly deplored and de-
precated by every man who felt any fentiment of
yuffice. This alone would be fufficient to call for Come
Legiulatvie remedy; but the cafe of a man lending his
money in any amount, to the fame Nano, equally
unfufpicious of a tranfadtion which it mull be utterly
impoffible for him to know, was Rill worfe ; for, oltho'
he Arnold fee, before his face, the money he had lent
to the bankrupt previous to the ilfuing of the Rotate,
divided amongft his other creditors, yet if it were
proved that, previnufly to foch loan, any a& of bank-
ruptcy had been committed, even five years before,
the lender was precluded by law from (haring one
fhilllng of the bank, upt's effeds, in common with the
refi of the creditors. But the evils to which he wished
to direct a remedy were not confined to cafes fuch as
he had Rated, hard and oppreifive as they were. It
was not to the creditor thus plundered, but to the
bankrupt himfelf, that a confiderable (hare of the
hard( tip and cruelty of thole laws attached—for al-
though, 'under the Statute of bankruptcy. he Should
havelbriendet ed every farthing of his property to his
afignees, Oswald have (tripped himfelf and his family
of every thing. to Geis& the claims of his creditors,
and reduced himfelf to complete ruin, yet, does all
this entitle him to his liberty, and clear him from
all future claims from his creditors ? No—for thole
other creditors, who by becoming unknowingly
fuch to any amount, fobfequent to any fecret all of
bankruptcy committed long before, and who are, by
the Bankrupt Laws, precluded from any dividend in
the bankrupt's aces, are yet left in poffeffion of the
right to fue and imprifon him for life, if he does not
pay them that which, without incurring the guilt of
a capital felony, he cannot have to pay ; namely, by
concealing part of his property from his affignees.—
But it was not to the creditors thus plundered, nor
to the bankrupt thus cruelly oppretfed, that the evil
was confined—a tyllem of conftifion and conflict was
frequently excited even amongft thofe who were
deemed the legal creditors, and a wide opening was
left for a defigning debtor to let afide the Statute,
and horrors his creditors into the alternative of roper-
Ceding the Statute, or diffipoting the whole property
in litigation. For though the (haute be iffued upon
the proof of an aft of bankruptcy by the petitioning
creditor, though alrignees are appointed, oats fold,
dividends made, and proceedings gone through at
very great expellee, yet if any other creditor, even
in collufion with the bankrupt or othetwile, could at
any time dining the proceedings, prove a previous
iii tof bankruptcy or that upon the proof of which the

pro.

damn had been ifoed, then the whole of the
endings Under the firm Astute were null and void, a
new datnfe ifued, new aligns were appointed, and
the former affignees were refponfible for every drilling
of the property of which they had the management.;
and expofed to innumerable salons, and endlefs ex- i
penal at law. In like manner might the fecund Eta-.
tote be fuperfeded by a third. a cafe of which defcrip-
Lion had *dually come within his own practice. The
litigation that was produced, the enormou• "Pelle"
incurred, and the end's!. Jetays of Jolliet that were
occafinned under this date of the Bankrupt Laws'.
were inconceivable to any man who was not a con-
Rant witnefs of fuch evils, and they were fuck as moll 0
be admitted molt loudly and urgently to puts for
tome remedy. There were 1 1 modes by whi th 2.
that remedy might be attempted, but he conceived
that the mod eligible which Ovoid zonfine the ret ro-
fpediVe operation of the liatute of bankruptcy to lit
months previous to its renal iffuing ; to deprive no
man of his claim as a creditor, in confequence of his
becoming fo after an ad of bankruptcy rommitt d.
onlefi it eau be proved that be knew of fuck an ad
at the time ; to adopt loch regulations is proceeding
under the firm astute itued, as should prevent the
Texas ions and expenfive proceedings to which he had
alluded: and to make fume provifion for exempting
the bankrupt, who Mould have made a fair Innen-
der ml' all his clods, from the liability to litigious and
pert toting fuits and imprifonmenta, upon debase
whisth, urs.-. the operation of law, he is utterly de-
prin. ed of iffinesne to fatisty. The Hon. and Learned • .
Methbereonehtded by moving foe leave to bring is
the • Bill„ which was agreed to aid the Attorney and •
Sofficitoe Generals, with Mr. Perceval, Mr. Morris,
and other% were appointed to prepare and bring in
the fame.
sates Pont KELM BILL. . .
Sir JOHN NEWPORT brought in this Bill ; and
on moving a that it be read a firti time."
11r. BAGWELL thanked the Right Hon. Baro-
net for his paftverance in this Bill, but apprehended
there was a point or two in which they may have
Come difference of opinion. Arthe law Rood already,
grind Juries had the power to rail's gaol. on coon-
ass, and zoo'. on cities ; the confequence of which
was, that in thofe counties which had cities. there
Witt bodes of indullry, gupported by the agsregate
AIM I but, in thofe counties which had no cities, the
eintrary was the cafe ; and be, therefore, hoped,
&empower would be given to the Grand Juries of the
latter. to make up that deficiency, as many of the
counties fo fitoated in Ireland, poreffed more opts-
leteee than fume of thofe which had cities. From the
dem that this affeffment of 4001. upon counties was
Sr* granted for the poor, it had never been increafed,
althnogh for other porpofes, rates had been made to
the amount of 30,0c01. though the people themfelves
were fo anxious to have provifinn made for the poor,
that books were built by private fabfcriptions, riling
in a gradation of from one to one hundred guineas.
It Book' be remembered, that there were no poor
laws is Ireland, and be hoped it would remain fo,
for the country was too poor to rapport the curses,
game of them.
Mr. FOSTER confidered this as a law profeffing
to au that of 1775, for taking op idle pinions, and
obliging them to work. That Ad was only carded
into execution in Dublin, where there was now do
rum of so,oool. td annually for ties fopport of vai•
gaboods (a lea l) I and Dublin being conlidered
as the centre, all the other counties entirely negleded
them. If the Bill was, as he fuppofed, intended to
compel Gratialuries to extend their powers in this'
retina. he fh d vote againd it, and particularly, as
he thought it by far too late in the Slam to profs a
'neaten which bad before been fo frequently agitated
and rejected in the hi& Parliament.
Mr. BAGWELL laid, there were hooks oils. •
doftry in other places befsdes Dublin, but that they
were fu rted by private fukstcription.
Sir . NEWPORT explained, that if the Right
co
kliort. ntlensan (Mr. Fofter) attended to the Bill,
be would find it exprefly provided, that one half of
the houfes &cold be appropriated to the correitiOn of
vagabonds and nerdy beggars, and the other half to
the relief of the needy poor. The Right Hon. Gen•
tlemao was alto wrong is fuppoling that this was the
firlt time of levies for this parent* being made cons-
pulfory upon Grand Juries. of which he quoted two
or three intiaages, and the only eonspullion was on
the comities which had houfes of indudryt to main-
tain them. As to the charge of bringing it forward
fo late in the Sefton, he appealed to the recollection
of Members, whether be had not made the fame pro-
pofition laft year I In the early part of this Seffion,
he was, for a time, kept out of his feat, by what he
mud confider a very improper proceeding. Since
then, his time had been fully occupied, as would be
proved by the great mats of bufinefs he already brought
forward ; and, late as it may be, he hoped he may
now be permitted to go on with a meafure, which he
felt to be fo effential to the welfare of his country.
Mr. ALEXANDER hid, that however difagree-
able it may be to oppo:. a meafure, the object of which
was profeffed to be humane and charitable' he mud ''
objea to all new and partial tchenses, as hitherto the
relief held- out to one clafs of the poor in Ireland,
fell heavieß on the other poor pan of it. 'flit greateft
part of the taxes of the North of Irehnd was paid
by people inhabiting houfes of about 51. a year, and
as no other property there but lands and houfes con-
tributed to the payment of the poor, he was defirous
of having form more general 'mature.
Mr. PARNELL laid, it was impolfible to travel
over the high roads in Ireland, without being (cable
of the neceffity of this meafure ; and as to the ob)'ec-
tion of its falling heavy on the land owners ; they
were a defcriptinn of perfons in that country bed able
to afford it —The Bill was then read a firlt, and or-
dered to be read a fecond time to-morrow.

DIFINCB BILL.
On the motion of Mr. Secretary WINDHAM,
the Houfe went into a Committee on the Defence

The Route having refolved into a Committee, Mr.
ALEXANDER in the Chair, tome of the introduc-
tory daisies were agreed to without any comment.
On the queftion that the Committee do agree to
the Claufe for limiting the operation of the Ad to
England,
Mr. YORKE concurred in the principle of the
meafure, to far as it was nmilar to the AR of 1603 ;
nut fo much from an attachment to an Aa, in pro.
duciag which he had himfelf fo great a flare, as he•
caufe Pc thought Amstar, of that nature aa the (14.

I

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•

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lite was neielfary in the prefent times, even Wilt
Should not becarried into operation. It was his opi
nion, that with proper conciliation and management.
the Militia and Volunteers might thereby be rendered
a fecond line of the army. He was not perfeely lure
Cud it would be expedient to put the Bill in caeca.
tion at prefent. whillt the Volunteers were embodied
on Such an extenfive kale. But though he agreed
in the principle, he could not give his silent to thin
Bill in its prefent fhape, bemire fo far from aiding k
would lay a reßraint upon the prerogative oUtbe
Crown. He could fee no reafon for limiting the opw
ration of the Bill to South Britain, and unlefs foam
good reafons Should be affigned, he Should move an
amenthnent, to infert " Great Britain." inflead of
England, and take the fenfe of the Committee upon
it. No difference had been made between Scotland
and En land, in the Bills which this profeffed to to.
peal. If the difference made in the prefent Bill
Should bejußified on the efficiency of the Scotch Vo.
hmers. he had only to fay, that the greater part of
. thole Volunteers were on the fame allowances whide
were to be withdrawn, and that there was reafon to
'apprehend from thence that their numbers would he
diminiffied. As he could not conceive any Rom,
rearm; why the berthen of a mecum which was hi.
tended for general benefit Should be confined is
South Britain, he moved that the words "Great Bei.
taut" be inferted inftead of " England."
Mr. Secretary WINDHAM laid, it was thou I
by Minill ere, that to a very great part of Scotland
Lill would -nut apply— the Highlands, partici: •
which were very thinly peopled, but whore peop e
were naturally of a very warlike and military turn,
mach more fo than in this part of the kingdom.—
They thought alto, that as the greatell part of the
Volunteers in Scotland were under the June, or
larger allowances, that it would have a very confide
table effect on that body 1 and being only a Bill of.
exreriment, they thought it belt to keep it within as
i narrow a Seale as poffible, and that was the reafon
which made him Rate, that it was not intended to/
emend the Bill to Scotland this year.
e k Sir JAMES PULTENEY was not aware of any
( ' reafon why the Bill Should not extend to Scotland as
well as England. Though the Bill was inapplicable
to the Weflern Highlands,it was as applicable to the
Lowlands as to any part of Englard, and he, there.
fore, though fupporting the principle of the naeafure,
protefled againft the erclufion of Scotland from its
operation.
Mr. PERCIVAL hoped the Right Henourable Se
cretary would not think it yet too late to agree to his
Right Hon. Friend's amendment. The latenefs of
the feffion might be an argument againft the Bill, if
ft was now &II brought forward. The Bill was
equally inapplicable to part• of Wales and Cumber
land, as to the Highlands, and yet that was not a
reaftin why thefe dißriets Should be exempted.
Colonel WOOD thought it better to try the expe-
riment in this country firft, and wait another year be-
fore it Should be extended to Scotland, with a view
to akertain its operation.
Mr. CALCRAFT could not admit the validity
of the chic/lions againft confining the operation of
A the Bill to England. The machinery of the Aft of
''' 1803 had 'never been put in operation, and he believed
that it never Sad been the. intention of the Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Yorke) to carry it. into emu.
tion. His Right Hon. Friend {Mt.- Secretary-1
Windham) he was fine meant to put this Bill into
operation. and there was no redemption of the fee
vice.
Colonel BASTARD would feel as confident in .
leaving the defence of England to the Englifh Vo-
lunteers, as that of Scotland to the Scotch Volun-
teers, becaufe they had Shewn as much real, loyalty,
and patriotifm, as any Set of men could. He did
not know!that this Bill, which profeffed to mile men,
ought not to be called a Money Bill, from the fines
it impofed. It did not appear to him why the Bill
Should not be extended to Scotland. The former
Bill, if put into force, moll have been put into exe-
cution at the point of the bayonet. It was very hard
that the Volunteers of Scotland, who were kept up
at a very extravagant expenee, Should exempt that
country from the burden of this meaffire, while the
Volunteers of England, the meaneß of whom contri-
buted to the eflablifhment, Should not obtain the
r . fame exemption for their country.
Mr. Secretary WINDHAM, in explanation, Rat-
ed, that the difference in the fituatien of the two
countries was fufficient to jai& the exclufion of
Scotland for the prefent, though not permanently.
Befides, the Militia Bill was to be confined to Eng
land, and confequently the ballot would be Rill en-
force in Scotland.
Lord CASTLEREAGH did not think the tea-
font advanced by the Right Honourable Gentleman
falisfadory. if this was an experiment, it might be
tried on a narrower fcale ; for inflame, in the county
(Norfolk) with which the Right Hon. Gentleman
was more particularly connelted. He agreed with
his Hon. Friend (Colonel Ballard) that this was
more of a Money Bill than the Bill that bad been
called the NIA Bill, and could not confent that the
preflure Should be confined to England. •
Mr. WHITBREAD thought it extraordinary for.
Gentlemen to go fo much into the principle, which
might be dikulTed in future Rages. The Bill only
provided, in the fiat inflance, for the enrolment of
the individuals, and left it afterwards to his Majef-
k ty's difcretion what proportion was to be trained.—
He did not think that the lower defcription of per.
lons would pay the fine of five pounds rather than
receive twenty-four Shillings for twenty-four days
training. The reafons of his Right Hon. Friend for
not extending this Bill to Scotland were to him per-
fedtly fatisfatiory.
Mr. BANKES was ferprifed at the exemption of
Scotland from this meafure. There was lets of com-
mon fenfe in the principle of putting one part of the
kingdom on a different footing from the other than
he could call to mind in any public meafure. The
benefit and the burthen ought, in his opinion, to be
eqwally difpenfed to both, and he was Pure the bur-
then would he more grievoufly felt, from the confi.
deration that it was partial. It had been laid that
the experiment was to be tried fiat in a confined kale:
" Fiat Experimentuin In Carport vili."
—Was England a fmall furface ? Was it that vile
part in which this experiment was firft to be tried
He admitted the zeal, the Spirit and loyalty of the
'-4-otch Volunteers, but he lamented the manner in
o Such they had teen invidkwjly and groundkfily let
.1),..ve the Volunteers of England. What was there

in the Scotch Volunteers to puce. them .atove-t.hore.
of England ? Certainly nothing either in seal. ,
loyalty, or alacrity to pre% forivekd in the moment
of danger. As a compenfation was Allowed for Or'
vice, they could not reckon upon any number of men
'to be railed under the prefent Bill, and he thought it
likely that the fines would be paid in a much larger
proportion than was afpeßed, or would be defirablei
fur the public defence. As to the latenefs of the kr.
lion, he could only fay, that there appeared no need'.
fity fur fo grnft, to apparent, fo palpable an injuflice.
On all thefe grounds he fhould vofe for the amendment.
Colonel EYRE fhnuld not Vote for the amend.
ment, beesinfe if the Bill, as it appeared to him, would
be onjult and oppreffive in its operation, he could not
content to extend it to another part of the kingdom.
What neceffity called for the meafure ? If it was any
relaxation in the zeal of the country, this Bill would
ettinguilh it altogether. He Gould not only vote
againa the Amendment, but vote againft the Bill in
every other Rage.
Mr. CHARLES WYNNE defended the meafbre.
He jullified the fines, by Rating that the individitals
had an option ; whereas in the cafe of the Pala Bill,
penalties were incurred which could not be paid, and
forfailure of duties which jt way impoffible to perform.
Lord BINNING thought that whatever good or
inconvenience, whatever benefit or burthen was to
rdult from the mediae, ought to be extended equally
to both countries. He was aware that the diaimila-
rity of laws and other eiretimflanees would place a
difference between the countries' but was foul to find
stbialratuitous diflinEtion propofed ; he thould vote
.fintha amendment. •

Cefonel MAMIEWSfaid, that from the opinion
he ehtertained of the Bill, it would be fir very fhort
an experiment, that it was not worth while to extend
it to Scotland.
Mv.HUSKISSON and Mr.CALCRA FT thought,
that the Bill could not, upon any principle of fairnefa,
have a limited operation upon England only.
Mr. WINDHAM Paid, it would be unfair now to
extend the menhirs to Scotland, as the Gentlemen
who reprefented that part of the country were abfent.
Mr. YORKE laid, he Ihould certainly take the
, fence of the Houle on the queßion. Not a word had
been advanced to Phew why the country from Aber.
deed to Glafgow and Edinburgh, comprifing one of
the moll opulent parts of the kingdom, Ihould be
exempted. He had never underflood that there would
be insurmountable difficulties to the operation of Inch
a Bill in Scotland, any more than there were in Wales,
Weßmoreland, Cumberland, the North Riding of
Yorkfhire, and other dittriels ; but if there really
were, why could not the peace ellablifhment of the
militia be reforted to in the Highlands, or the men
be arociated under this Bill for 24 days together, in
fome ceutral pofition
Mr. RYDER Paid, that no poffible objection could
be advanced againft the extenfion of the Bill to all
see Lowlands of Scotland ; and, of the Highlands,
Diunbatton, Perthfhire, and other parts, were ins.
aitely more populous than many dill' iels of England.
The Fissure then divided on the Amendment pro
poled by Mr. Yorke—Ayes, 38—Noes, 76—Majo-
it!, 311. The original Claufe was then agreed tn.
11 In the clay& regulating the returns under the MI,
Mr-YORKE propofed the introdullion of the words
usregard being had to the number of Volunteers
-aeltially enrolled and (crying in the counties."
This produced a long converfation. in the mitre
I.of which, Mr. WINDHAM Paid, that it was intend.
ed to give to his Majefly the power of enrolling
zoo,ooo meh in addition to the number of Volunteers
that might continue to be embodied, but that the
authority would poffibly not be embraced to the ex-
tent of training that number. The returns of perfons
liable to the feryice were to be made out from thole
who were liable to ferve under the Militia Bill, which
was then in progrefs through the Houfe.
Mr. YORKE's amendment was at length adopted.
. The eltufe relating to the time allowed for train-
ing, and fat giving his Majefly a power to call out
the 'trained men, in cafe of invafion, being read,
Vifeount CASTLEREAGH (aid, it was a matter
chit required much confideration, and as it was then
a late hour, he thought it much better that the Chair-
man Ihould report progrefs, and the claufe be difeutred
to-morrow.—This propotiti. n was agreed to, and Ilse
Chairman reported progreli, and obtained leave to
lit again to-morrow.—Adjoorned at Twelve o'clock.