Star.
London, England, 1812-03-17 00:00:00

STATE OF THE NATION.

Eari GROSVENOR gave notice of his intention to submit to
their Lordships a motion for going into a Committee on the State
nt the Nation. i 1 motion of considerable importance was fixed
tor Thursday next, and one of still greater importance for the
lath of April, when the Petition of the Irish Catholics was to
be brought under their consideration ; of which Petition, if the
Prayer was not granted, the consequence, he apprehended, would
be little short id rehelllon. He was inclined to wait the event
of that discussion, before he came forward with his own motion :
a motion which was loudly called for in the present discouraging
and distressed situation of the country, and the disjointed and
distracted state of the Councils of Government. He would not
name spy particular day, but content himself with the general
notice, that he intended soon te submit a motion on the btate of
Alt Nation.

GRANT TO PORTUGAL.
The Order of the Day having been read for the
House to take into consideration the Message of the
Prince Regent, desiring them to concur in enabling
him to grant the usual supply to Portugal, for the
support of her army, ,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that in calling
the attention of the House to this subject, he should
not feel it necessary to take up much of their Lord-
4hips' time. He conceived, naturally enough, that
as the measure now proposed was no new one, the
only feeling .*.with regard to it would be, that the
House owed the fulfilment of it to itself ; that it
owed it to an ancient and honourable Ally, who had
stood bp us in the most arduous and trying circum.
stances ; apd that the House ought to afford it the
ricore readily, as that assistance which this country
had already lent to Portugal, had not been bestowed
is vain. One point on whi:h the opposition to this
might turn, as on former motions on the same sub-
ject, would be "the impracticability of effecting the
end proposed by this measure. No one could say,
that looked at the history of this country, that in such
circumstances as Europe is at present placed, the de-
fence 9f Portugal was not most essential to the safety
of ibis country. They had now had sufficient expe-
rience on this subject to know, dist the system pur-
sued by Lord Wellington was sufficient to defend
Portugal from the French. Another question might
swise, how far in our endeavours to protect Portugal
from invasion we bad been assisted in those efforts
by hereelf? The answer to that was, the number of
troops which she had brought into the contest, when
4 was well known that Portuguese troops (of whom
it had been said, that they might do to garrison
places cf strength, but could never be brought to ef-
fectual service In the field)? under British Officers,
hadshewn themselves capable of facing with honour
an 4 advantage to themselves and their allies, the
proudest battalions of France, commanded by her
most distinguished Officers. His Lordship instanced
The conduct of the Portuguese troops at Barrosa ;
and, indeed, wherever they had been brought into
action, their conduct had been that of well.disciplined
and gallant toldiers. Many Officers who had served
In Portugal, had formerly declared it to be their opi-
nion, thsit no effectual assistance could be expected
to be furnished by England in the way of levies.—
That opinion had also been adopted by many Mem-
tiers of that House ; but those Officers had since,
most honourably to themselves, acknowledged their
mistake ; and the efforts of the Portuguese, in this
way, would chew what might yet be effected by the I
pations of Europe in general, if they would but arouse
from their lethargy. In stating the particular and
numerous instances of the valour and conduct of the
Portuguese, he felt that he should be unnecessarily
wasting the time of the House ; but these points, he
must contend, were completely established, namely,
that we had effectually defended Portugal ; and that
from the Portuguese army and Government we had
received every assistance in their power to afford us.
—When they looked at the antiquity of the alliance
between this country and Portugal, added to the
other circumstances which he had just mentioned, he
wassonfident they would be found enough to hinder
any one from opposing this grant. Their Lordships
were aware that in consequence of the removal of
the Court of Lisbon to the Brazils, and the long con-
tinuance of the French in Portugal, that the finances
of that cbuntry had fallen into decay, which rendered
it necessary to afford them this assistance. But the
Bouse would be greatly deceived if it thought that
the subsidy granted. last year by this country was
sufficient to support the military force ot Portugal,
for they had themselves added £1,800,000 to it, for
the maintenance of their army. His Lordship then
concluded by moving—a That an humble Address
should be presented to the Prince Regent, assuring
him, that the House would concur in enabling him
to fulfil the proposed grant to Portugal."
Lend GROSVENOR said, that he could.not
help rising to offer a few observations on this sub-
ject; and, if he did 'not oppose the motion, still he
wished it not to be understood, that be abstained from
doing so in consequence of his agreeing in the gene-
ral policy of the war in Spain and Portugal, with
that divided and distracted Government, which had
so tong, for the misfortune of this country, been in
power. He must, however, bear his tribute of ap-
plause to the valour and skill of those distinguished
officers and men, who had managed that war.—
He blained, however, the measures adopted by the
Government at home. Were we not in possession
of Portugal four years ago, at the time of the uator-
tunate Convention of Cintra ? Were we not in quiet
possessie,n of that country when Sir J. Moore, to the
destructiOn of himself and great part of his Army,
was ordered to match nearly into the centre of Spain?
And what had been our conduct during those pe-
riods was well known. France was in possession cf
the capital ot Spain, and of the strong parts of that
country—and what had been done, with an Army
of 'sixty thousand men in Portugal, besides Spaniards
who were ready to join us ? Would the country be
sitisfied, without sonic gieater efforts being made,
with such ample means, than the tikiiig of a solitary
f ,rtregs—fiewever brilliant and honourable to our
arms it Their Lordships, and die Country, would
not be satisfied Witln,t . some greaten effort being
tra,ie to terminate at once the fate of Spaiu—totee

winate at ante the power of Bonaparte. Unhei tkeir
Lordships would encourage some noblor and bolder
efforts in this cause the country would alter its opi-
Limb which it had hitherto held on this subject. He
had thought that when the Portuguese were com-
pletely relieved from the oppression of the French
Army, they would have been able to have raised suf-
ficient supplies themselves to pay their troops ; but
that not being the case, he could not help consider-
ing this grant as giving Ministers still farther power
of continuing that dreadful system of war which they
had carried on so long. If the Spanish, nation were
for us, our assistance might be of essential service to
them, and ought to be granted to them; but if they
were against us, and willing to bow their necks to
the Conquetor, vain would be all the efforts we could
make for them. He, however, would not oppose the
motion.
The Earl of DARNLEY said, that the honour of
the country was pledged to this gran:, and, of course,
if it were withheld, that honour would be compro-
mised. He, therefore, would not oppose the motion ;
at the same time, he must express his disapprobation
of the general line of policy pursued by Ministers
during the war in the Peninsula.
The question was then put and carried nem.
Adjourned.

• HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Lord CA sr f.CRYAGH took the oaths and h•s seat for Plympton,
The Committee of Ways and Means was postponed till Wed-
nesday.
The Marine Mutiny Bill was read a third time, on the motion
of Mr. CROKER, and passed.
Mr. W. POLE gave notices 9f motions for three Bills . the first
to empower the Coadjutors of Bishops and Archbishops in Ire-
land, to perform certain duties; the second, to enable the Wives
and Children of Soldiers on foreign service :o return home; and
the third, to amend the Irish Militia ►aws.
The Royal Woods and Forests Bill, and the Members' Oaths
Bill, were read a second time, and ordered to be committed ter
to-morrow.

The bill for preventing the granting of °Sees in Reverhion,
passed through the Committee, and the Report was ordered to
be taken into consideration to-morrow. _ _

The Indemnity Bill was read a third time and passed.
On the motion of Mr. ROSE, leave was given to bring in a
Bill for prohibiting the intercourse between Jamaica and certain
parts of the island of St. Domingo.
Mr. ROSE also moved for and ob•hlned leave to bring in a
Bill for allowing the importation of the produce of the other
West India Islands, into the island of Bermuda, by British ships
as also tor allowing the said Colonial produce tube exported from
the said Island to the United States of America, in American ships,
under certain regulations.
Mr. RODE also moved for, and obtained leave to bring in a
Bill, for permitting the Importation of certain foreign gouts into
Canada from the United States, either by internal navigation, or
by land.
Mr. W. FITZGERALD asked whether the Irish Government
had come to any Reso:ution respecting the stopping of the Dis-
tillation from Grain in that country, in consequence of the high
price of Grain and Provisious from the great exportation of those
articles?
After a few words in answer from the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, he gave notice of a motion on this subject on
Wednesday.

THE PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE.

The House having resolved itself into a Commit-
tee of Supply,
Lord CASTLEREAGH rose, and said that he
conceived that it would be unnecessary for him to
trespass at any length upon the House to induce them
to agree to the motion that it was his duty to submit
to them. The grounds upon which Parliament had
been originally called upon to assist the exertions of
Portugal were so fresh in the recollection of the House
that he hoped thst there was now no occasion for any
extended arguments to restate them to the House.—
If in former times, and before we had any experience
of the exertions that Portugal was capable of making,
and willing to make, Parliament was convinced that it
was bound in liberality to vote ' a sum of money for
the defence of Portugal, and through Portugal for
the defence of the Spanish Peninsula, he hoped, that
after the experience we now had of the efficacy of the
supplies that 11.1 d formerly been granted, there could
be now no objection to a grant similar to that of last
year. He thought, indeed, that the question was
now drawn within a very narrow compass, and that
it was impossible to object to the proposed grant, ex-
cept on one of the two propositions which he should
state. He thought the objection must be either on
the principle, that to grant money to a foreign nation
was a thing in itself so fundamentally wrong, that
no circumstances could justify it ; or else, that the
situation of affairs in the Peninsula was so hopeless,
that notwithstanding
.the brilliant successes which our
arms had been attended with, and the faith of Parlia-
ment pledged to support the cause of the Peninsula,
it would be a fruitless waste of money to proceed any
farther. It was possible that there might be persons
who, viewing the subject in one of those lights, would
think it right to give no support to, or what would
be the same thing, to withdraw our army from For-
tugal. He could not conceive any other grounds :
upon which a grant similar to that of last year could
be resisted ; and he hardly expected to hear any ob-
jections of that nature in that House. Last year,
when there was by no means the same proof of the
efficacy of this assistance to Portugal that there was,
at present, although many Gentlemen expressed ob--
jections to the principle, jet when it came to the vote
the question was agreed to without a division, Me'
therefore had a strong hope, that to mark the sense
of the House of the gallant exertions made by the
Portuguese nation in the course of the last year there
would be an unanimity on the present occasion. Two
years ago, there was a great disposition to doubt,
whether there was any likelihood of efficacious sup-
port from Portugal, equal to the sum of money de-
manded. There were then very serious doubts
among military men of great authority, whether the
Portuguese army could be brought to such a degree
of discipline, as to be depended upon in conjunction
with the British troops. It was, therefore, by no
means wonderful, that at that time there should be a
strong feeling against a grant of money to be applied
to the Portuguese army. As it had been, however,
since proved by experience, that, in a military point
of view, the grants of the former years had been pro-
ductive of great advantage, he thought it very pro!
bable, that many who objected to the grant, when
reasonable doubts existed of the efficacy of it t would
now withdraw their opposition. Even at the time
the grant was prop Ned lust year, there were many
who saw nothing that had been done for Portugal,
except forcing Lord Wellington and the army to rely
on the lines of Ciutra for'the,r protection. This dif-
ficulty was now, however, removed; and it was seen
that the supplies seat were not only sufficient to ena-
ble Lord Wellington to retain a defensive positiOn,
but to drive the enemy beyond tle frontirs, and even

•

to take from them a most important fattiest, ;n View
of their accumulated armies in that part of Spain.—
The events which had thus taken place in the course
of the last year, removed all the objections that had
then been made as to the service which the supply
would afford to Portugal. Now as to the principle
of granting subsidy, he should observe, that in gran-
ting it iu favour of Portugal, we would be subsidiz-
ing a nation with which the national feelings of this
country most strongly sympathized, and which we
were peculiarly called upon to assis: by every feeling
of national policy and national pride. It was hardly
however fair to call that a subsidy which was a grant
to increase the exertions of our allies, in aid of the
operations of our armies, acting for British objects as
well as for their interests. All the exertions which
the British troops could have made alone, and even
the splendid talents of Lord Wellington, must have
failed in obtaining the successes which have attended
oar operations in that quarter, if they had not been
supported by the co-operation of the. Portuguese
force which those grants had brought into the field.
The first great testimony of the value of those troops
was from the enemy, who, from their conduct at bu-
saco, believed -them to be British troops that Lord
Wellington had clothed in Portuguese un:forms.—
This subsidy has also this advantage over all other
subsidies which had been granted, that it was entirely
administered and applied under the inspection of
Lord Wellington, which gave this country the most
complete security that it would be expended in the
manner most conducive to the object for which it was
granted. He must also observe, that this subsidy
was entirely flee from the objection which had often
been made to subsidies granted to other nations, inas-
much as no part of it was granted in exoneration of
any charge which Portugal ought to have borne her-
self. He had great satisfaction in stating, and it
was highly creditable to the Portuguese Govern-
mint that he was able to state, that such had been
the financial exertions of that overnment, that not-
withstanding the devastations committed by the
French armies while they were in Portugal, the re-
venues of that country applicable to the purposes of
the war were now greater than they had been at any
former period in the history of Portugal ; and from
the exertion of the Government the finances of the
country were progressively increasing. He stated
those grounds for his present motion, without the least
wish of renewing a controversy upon this subject. He
was very ready to admit, that formerly there were
many gi ounds upon which Gentlemen might honestly,
fairly, and reasonably, doubt of the propriety ot gran-
ting a considerable sum of money to form A Portu-
guese army; but he thought that the events of the
List year, and the present effective situation of the
"Portuguese farce, ought to remove those objections.
It ought also to be recollected, that during the irrup-1
tion of the French there was no treachery to the com-
mon cause discovered in any part of Portugal. It
was a proud circumstance for Portugal, that her po-
pulation proved perfectly free from that opprobrium
' which had fallen on portions of the population in
other countries. The peasants of Portugal cheerfully
retired with their families to those places which had
been appointed for them to retire to, and did every
thing in their power to repel the cotimon enemy.—
After some farther observations, his Lordship cot"-
eluded by moving—
, " That a sum not exceeding two millions should be ranted to
Ms Majesty, to enable him to continue to maintain and pay a
body of Portuguese troops, and farther to assist in the defence of
Portugal"
Mr. FREEMANTLE begged to call to the mind
of the House, that assistance was first granted with
the view of aiding Spain. What had been done
there ? Failure had attended our every step, and
after a lavish expenditure, we had not an inch of
Bpanish ground : we had not cne soldier within the
confines of that country. Since so much ill success
had attended our efforts there, he called on them to
put an end to a lavish expenditure, that must bring
OR the ruin of the country, if not put a stop to. He
was aware that he might not be taking a very popu-
lar part ; he knew that he was opposing himself to
the Government, with all its power and influence,
and he also knew, that he was in opposition to the
present views on the subject of some of his friends.
All the attempts for Spain had failed, the country
we had set mit to &tend; and he would repeat, that
unless this lavish expenditure was put .:n end to, the
destruction of our own country, he feared, must be
' the ultimate result. From the commencement of
the war on the Peninsula, there appeared an almost
total want of cu-operation on the part- of the Spa-
niards; on this ground he would object to the grant,
it Spain were the principal object it WAS directed to;
and, if Portugal were the principal object, this pro-
position ought, in his opinion, to have been shaped
in a different way. It would not become him to en-
ter into the history, or the. decals of the war • but
he did not think that he could, consistently with his
duty to his constituents, vote away £2,000,000, with.
out being convinced that the object. was sufficient to
warrant such expenditure. The expense of that war
was nearly £100,000,000 within the year; anti, now
.that trade and commerce were un the decline, tie did
nay think it probable that the country could any
longer bear the burdens that srae daily increasing
upon it. He would ask the House to remember
what answer had been returned by Ministers to the
numerous petitions which had been sent last year
from different parts of the country. The Minister
then said, that no hope could be entertained of re-
moving the inconveniences of which the petitioners
complained, until such time as Bonaparte should re-
lax in some measure in the plan of hostility he had
adopted against this country. The distresses of the
country were as great now as then, and the liop
,Isessning them was now increased. The Nobly i.ord
had said that Portugal was increased in revenue, and
if so, should not the necessity of calling upon En g-
, land for pecuniary assistance have diminished ? It
did not, in his opinion, speak much tot' the pride of
the Portuguese, that it should be necessary to pay
them for the defence of their own country. There
were at least 50,000 British troops employed upon
the Peninsula, and the expense was nut less than
£4OOO a day for the mules employed in the convey-
ance of necessaries for that number of men. Every,
horse brought on an expense of at least ;3s. per day ;
and would any person say
that the sending from this
country of oats and hay for the. support of we cavalry,
did not alter the state of the n'ilarkets ? It was almost
a physical impossibility to keep up so Urge an army
front the population ot the country ; that population
was too small for such a dr#M, and the militia woulck

- .

not, in a short time, be table to serve the
4
recruiting the army to the same extent it bed hither.
to done. He knew one regiment 0 cavalry erhich•
bad landed in Portugal 644) strong ; they were
Bye times remounted, and at present they did bat
amount to more than 4.EtO. He was confident dbe
! country could not support such eseense. J was net
by any means his wish that the Bntish troop thew%
be withdrawn from Portugal. He did not object le
the war, but the extravagaat pursuit of it.
Mr.WA RD was 011 f at those who always tbeisen.
and did still think, that this country should have
never appeared as principals in the was. elm dia
Peninsula. His Honourable Friend was of • •
that the war ougbt not to be entirely aboodoced,hit
he seemed disposed to pursue a rouch wont Lee of
jolicy, not to abandon it, but to stirire it. (Mara
Phis was a plan which would render the Inv *a
burdensome, but, at the same time, rake away ak.
hope of accomplishing the objects fur which it was
undertaken. It ought to be recollected, that
ivas so injurious to a great country :;ke ths, as
Tient changes in pursuits of the kind now under ea& •
sideration. When once a war Eke the present was
commenced, it was much better to pursue than a,
don it, particularly after having prosecuted it fer e•
considerable a time. If it were to be now (bopped.
what would every statesman say, bat that EnSsad.
when likely to tail, prosecuted the war with input.
i but now that she had experienced successes old;
most brilliant kinis, under the conduct of a gallant
and skilful leader, she gives up the struggle, when
she should be more eager to continue it. It cotad
not be considered discreditable to the Portuguese ft •
receive pay from England, even for the datum ef
their own country. The truth was, they bad eons.
mitred themselves entirely to England. This was
practised often before towards many greaternatintis
titan Portugal. The Emperor of Germany frequenty
received money in the same way, and be never beard
him considered as a disgraced person. He was not
so sanguine as to entertain no apprehension that ste
British troops should not at some time be withdems
from the Peninsula ; but, even when it may be found
necessary, it should, in his opinion, be dime slowly,
Whatever opinion, or whatever tear he may entertain
as to the success of the war, he was convinced, that
while it was in progress, it should be carried on with

vigour.
Colonel DILLON would not oppose the grant.
Sir T. TURI ON could trot colisent to vote away
so large a sum, under the present ciicumsiances of
the country, without some previous inqu ry. It was
not his opinion, Mit all, assistance .60(14 be with.
drawn from Spain ; but he thought war the means
of affording it, and the ends proposed,
taken into consideration. There was nothing 11,,w
heard in this country but warfare ; its tone was be.
come completely military. This ar,,se from nothing
else than the vast military establishment eds.& it was
found necessary to keep up. He was quite cards
whether it would render him unpopular or not ; fan
while ever he had a seat in that House, be wouldn't
agree to such grants without being convinced oldie"
' necessity.
Lord COCHRANE thought that Portugal should
only be defended upon the lines of Torres Vera;
and from the great natural stv-ngth of that place,
there would be no occasion for so 'mammas army
as that at present on the Peninsula. With
Badajoz and Ciudad Rodrigo, he was correicad did
those places must fall as soon as the French would
find it convenient to come against them in sufficient
force. Upon the lines of Torres Vedras, from li to
20,000 men would be sufficient for the dams d
Portugal. He could not but condemn the manna
in which that gnat army 'was employed. Pima it
might have been sent with good t fect into Catalano{,
or our the purpose of relieving Cadiz, and raising do
siege of that place.
The question was then put and earrisd.

bLIZACWATILIL IN rLymoirru swum

Mr. YORKE said, that every perms in the leell
acquainted with the naval concerns of the
knew that the forming a safe roadstead in 01=
bound was an object much to be desired. That pan
for the last 2u years had not been coasiderrd u .014
we were obliged on that ace. eat to make use et fey
bay and Cawand Bay. He aas as.ured that of tbe
breakwater were completed,* ships of the ling 111110,_
ire protected and tide with safety in the Souild.indlif
such en objet the Holes:. he believed. “xl6lOlll
refuse 'strait. There was one coossusiatin. *hick
sufficiently chewed that it was not an idle s,erage. •
tion. A similar plan had been projected by Valhi%
for the improvement of the hartKaer oft.Atibotsj•
and carried .nto effect under the aunnaissratius dllO
Disc de Castries. He could net We may toe ompoone.
meat of Flemouth.sound should noi ueripaal.76o44o
ble. He hope.' then, that toe would be di ustattoe•
tified in recommindong the plan to we utioaut•to
There were no disadvantages of any moaseat thst
could possibly atti nu Its failure, but it it seciaando
the greatest poss.bre aivant..ges would De ate weak.
and w a ye. y few years I. uoutil nuke ardent if
the entire expense. He WoUI.I, tlialialt.llWvCs
tsA
a sum not less than seBu,uuu be granted .er tee IMP
pche of purchasing quarries, atid deli a) trig the year
e;peuscs incident to the imploweinen. sat Piyerleth
Sound.—The Resolution being a„reed to, t,,r CiAir
was resumed, and die Repeat of the Cammioeg
ordered to be received to-morrow.
FLOOOINU IN THU LOCAL
The Order if the Day for the third reading Of 011
Local Militia Bill being read,.
Sir FRANC IS BURDET 1' signified his intestine
of moving for the introduction of a clause, to meet
the persons engaged in that service from sulferog
ccrporal punishment.
'the SPEAKER apprehended it was ton Ist ea
introduce a ciaase, but the Honourable &Matt we*
move an amendment to any clause lie might or
to, and doing so, he wculd have an o?pciettlhi "
making any remarks he might wish to offer.
Sir F. BURDETT in consequence o this%
Lion, arose to offer an amendment. He pieta
motion with a few 'Titlarks on the impropriety dr.
sorting to the punishment of flogging. Ad
to the case of Mr. Taylor, to which he had
last year, he maintained that what he then statedlNl
correct, and that subsequent nuormation h•4111°.2
fled him that Mr. Taylor*was a man of excellent Or
ratter, of good education, and coasiderable abut
ducation had been recently spoken of asliittere"'"
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' ige. Taylor's education tad lea hitil to write that song
for which he was punished. He then noticed what
hid 'taken place at the Isle of Ely, where, do account
ofa squabble between the officers and men about the
sorehing guinea, to which the latter thought they
were entitled, their conduct had been said to be mu.
sow, and a number of these young men, who had
bin just put off their smock-frocks, had been sen-
tisCed to receive .500 lashes. Ile would ask if such
pmaishment was not out of all character ? and since
:I;te were persons who seemed to resort to it with
Inch alacrity, it seemed to him highly expedient to
pent its being inflicted. This was the more neces-
iffy as the country were likely to be called out, and
it was too much that the punishment of flogging
show be inflicted on our entire population. lie
concluded by moving, that to that part of the Act
extending in case of invasion, the provisions of the
Articles of War, to the Local Militia, the following
words should be added :.-44 Except so far as shall
extend to inflicting the punishment of flogging, which
shag in no case be inflicted on any officer, private, or
drummer, serving in the Local Militia."
Mr. GOULBOURNE said, that the Honourable
Baronet had given notice of a Motion last session
with respect to the case of Taylor, but on the day
appointed had withdrawn the notice, for reasons but
Mown to himself. If he had not done so, it was his
(Mr. Goulbourne's) intention to have opposed the
onion. Taylor had been justly punished ; he had
written a song, inciting his comrades to resist their
officers, and he afterwards himself acknowledged the
justice of his sentence. With respect to the punish-
ment in the Isle of Ely, he could only say that the
celdiers had refused in a body to do that which the
ker had prescribed. It must be obvious, that prompt
and severe punishment was necessary on such an oc-
casion, and the delinquents had themielves become
tensible of the propriety of that which they had suf-
fered. _ _

Colonel WOOD observed, that a general opinion
was entertained that the French troops were not sub-
jected to corporal punishment, and that those troops
were in a high state of discipline ; now he had to
state, that he had learned from General Beckwith,
that the orderly book of a French regiment had fallen
into his hands after the affair of Fuentes d'Honore,
by which it appeared, that within a short space of
time there had been 320 persons of the regiment sen-
tenced to death by Courts-Martial ; the majority for
elesertion, and several of the sentences executed. It
appeared, moreover, that the parents of the delin-
quents were liable to six months imprisonment, and
those who might harbour or abet them were liable to
s fine of 1.500 mai ks. The book from which Gene.
sal Beckwith had collected this information had been
unfortunately lost, otherwise he would have been
happy to have produced it to the House. If another, '
however, should fall into the hands of the gallant
Genera! lie would take care of it.
Mr. W: SMITH was of opinion the argument to
be deduced from the circumstance last mentioned
cat quite the other way, as it shewed that even a ca-
pital punishment was more tolerable to the French
army than that of flogging.
Mr. D. GIDDY was satissfied with the practice as
it oow prevailed, mitigated as it had lately been.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that those who sup-
posed that he and the persons who objected to the
tirsetiet of flogging, wished to promote a relaxation
of discipline, were greatly in error. If the abolition
of flogging were to have that effect, however revol-
ting it might be to his feelings, he would vote for its
continuance ; but it appeared very plainly, from the
authiaities quoted on a former night, that discipline
would, by such a measure, be rather promoted than
relaxed. The principle upon which some perms des
fended the practice in the regular army was, that that
force consisted of an heterogeneous mass, which it
was necessary to coerce by some very severe mode of
dicipline. It was obvious that this argument would
root apply in the case of the Local Militia. .Again, it
should be recollected that a person drawn to serve in
the Lotal Militia could not escape the service, no
substitute would be allowed. With respect to the
book which an Hon. Gentleman opposite had made
mention of, which had been found and lost, and was
to be found again—(A /aug/s)—he did not perceive
froM his statement that it would have, if forthcoming,
any tendency to prove, what from the outset of his
speech he had supposed it was his intention to prove,
that corporal punishment was used in the French
army ; it rather, indeed, shewed the aversion to the
practice; when so many sentences of death were
passed, sooner than have recourse to it:
Mr. HERBERT opposed the motion.
Lord PALMERSTON thought, that if corporal
punishment was necessary to the maintenance of dis-
cipline in one description of force, it was also neces-
sary in another. •
Admiral HARVEY said, it was no uncommon
thing for the French prisoners at Gibraltar to bor-
row cats from 'our people to flog their men.
Mr. HENRY THORNTON supported the
Amendment.
Mr. WYNNE expressed his dislike of the practice
flogging, but confessed he hard not hitherto been
able to perceive any effectual substitute.
Mr. GIPPS opposed the Motion.
Colonel ELieltiON was anxious to record his own
°Pinions or, the present subject as well as the Honour-
able Baronet, and maintained, that so far as he had
procured information, or could remark for himself,
he had found that the punishment so severely cen-
sured was, in fact, the preventive of many petty
crimes, for which the Honourable Gentlemen on
the opposite side were willing enough to provide
the punishment of death. Their opinions, therefore,
were founded in cruelty, and were worthy of censure.
.
fl amelioration had already taken place in the con-
dition of the army ; and the Officers, from a discreet
exercise of their power, and from their vigilance, had
created an unexampled state of good order and so-
'y amongst the soldiers, which he was happy to
perceive had the most salutary effects on the military
spirit of the people.
The amended clause was then put, and lost with-
cps a division, and the Bill itself read a third time
and Passed.
BANIUIUPT AIEDIBLILS OP PVLIANIENT.
Mr. THOMSON, pursuant to the notice which he
bad formerly given,-
40 rose to solicit the attention of the
• use to consider the propriety of adopting some
measure to prevent Bankrupts from • holding seats in
the British House of Representatives. What chiefly
°"44i9laed his urging theitaming of such a Bill, wails

tint aecording to the trish law, any Men'tber of the
Douse of Commons should vacate his seat if he should
not pay his debts in full-within six Months after the
date of his b'Snkruptcy; therefore, in consistency
with the Irish law, he was desirous of framing a Bill
wherein should be assimilated the various feelings of
the two countries on The Subject; and should move
for leave to bring in 1 Bill to render vacant the seats
of Members of Parliament becoming bankrupts who
paid not their debts within a certain period, to be
mentioned, after committing an act of bankruptcy.
Mr. BARING was of opinion, that the adoption
of such a measure indiscriminately would cast a
stigma upon the person excluded, and was desirous
' that some distinction should be made in the Bill be-
tween those men who might become insolvent by ho-
i nourable means, and those who performed an act of
bankruptcy by which they cheated their creditors.
Mr. W. WYNNE hid, it might be expedient to
introduce a clause wherein was delineated the situa-
tion of the bankrupt's affairs, who should beexclud-
ed ; because a man might become a bankrupt, and
yet have sufficient pioperty to pay even beyond his
debts, providing that he fled leisure to dispose of it.
Mr. LOCKHART spoke in favour of the motion.
After which it was put and carried in the affirma-
tive, without any division.
Mr. TtioNtsox then brought up his Bill, which was
read a first time, and ordered to be read a second
time on this day 'se'nnight, and printed.—Adjourned.