Star.
London, England, 1822-04-23 00:00:00

i

\S v 6,404

duty now to submit to the 'House was very
to that which he had elide in the year 1816,
could not but remember the very different ci
stances under which he had come forward
occasion. In 1816 he was supported by three
able, intelligent, and enlightened friends,. who
no longer there to favour such an effort. It was his
misfortune,
.or rather it was that of the country, that
• two of them had since that period sunk into the
grave. When he mentioned the name of. Ponsonhy;'
it was unnecessary for him to enlarge on the talentS
of his late Right Hon. Friend. These were well
known to that House, as were the opportunities
which that Right Honourable.Gentleman had had of
acquiring information relative to the affairs of Ice-
land, and the skill with which he had availed him-
self of them. When he mentioned the second name,'
he repeated a name so identified with Ireland, 'that
no man could doubt the relation in which the wearer'
of it had stood with respect, to, that country. Mil
Grattan had through a long series of years watched
over the interests Of Ireland, and had combated i
her cause against those who favoured the Union in
the Irish House of Commons--(Hour, hear).--
The Irish Parliament having been
_pet an end to;
Mr. Grattan, transferred to the English House of
Commons, had fought the battles alms twuntry with
the same energy, zeal, and perseverance here with
which in Ireland he had struggled against those who
vished for the extinction of that separate Parliament
of which he had been a Member. The third indivi-
dual to whom be had alluded was still living, and
had a seat in that House, though on the present oc-
casion he could not calculate on his assistance. That
such was the case in the instance of the Right Hon.
Gentleman to whom he referred, he lamented on his
account and on that of the country. It was neces,
sary that he (Sir John Newport) should detain the
House for some time, but he begged to assure them
that it would be his object to condense what he had
to offer as much as the importance of the interests
which he undertook to advocate would allow him to
do, and he requested the House to follow him while
he traced the situation of Ireland from its causes,
and pointed out the progress of the evil from its com-
mencement up to the present time, with as sincere an
attachment to the interests of both countries as any
man in that House could boast. He hoped he should
not be tedious. It would be necessary to make some
reference to• figures, to shew the progress of Ireland
to the state of degradation and disorganization in.
which that country was found at present. He would
attempt to shew the causes of the evil, and he prayed
the House to look well at them, and thus enable
themselves to determine what was the proper remedy
to be applied. They would doubtless feel it their
duty to do so, for he could conceive nothing more
fallacious than for a Parliament to proceed to legis-
late, where their interference was demanded, with-
out first a?plying themselves to ascertain the cause
of that evil vk hich made their interference necessary.
Till this was fully known, it was absolutely itupossie
ble that they could be competent to afford relief.—
It was unnecessary for him to endeavour to impress
, oa the House the magnitude of the question which
now demanded their attention. It respected a popu-
lation in numbers immense, and an area of land un-
exampled for fertility. Why such a country, with a
populat on signalized by the great deeds some from
among them had performed in every quarter of the
globe, should be placed in a situation which made
perpetual coercion necessary, WAS that into which
they had to inquire. They had to decide what it
was that made a penal code, like that of Ireland,
suitable for such a people—why the Government
could not be administered but with the aid of a sys-
tem of perpetual punishment. Ireland presented an
area of about 19,000,000 of English acres:, its po-
pulation had ben estimated as follows at different

periods :
In 1731 - • 1,670,000
In 1747 - . 2,000,000
la 1789 - - - 4,000,000
In.tats - . 6,000,000
—And 'by an enumeration itt the present day, it ap-
peared that the population of Ireland now amounted
to nearly 7,00e,000. It was, then, in the cause of
seven millions of people that they were now called
upon to act, with a view of snatching them from a
state of disorganization, and placing them in a situ-
ation to taste the blessings (which he was sorry to say
they had not yet known) of the protecting tare of
the Legislature of Great Britain. He could' attribute
the causes of the evil to but one source—he would
sum them all up in three words, expressive of the
principle, if principle it could be called, on which
Ireland had been governed through successive ages.
The maxim acted upon in Ireland was the opposite
of that which it was thought wise to adopt every
where else—it was simply this, "Divide and govern!"
—(llear).—lt was owing to the miserable policy
that had obtained of attempting to govern the people
of that ill-fated country, by sowing divisions among
them,that those calamitous results had been witnessed
which they had now so much cause to deplore. That
it was the object of those to whom the Government.
of Ireland had been confided, to set one part of the
population against the other, could not be denied.—
Were proof demanded, it could be supplied by the
letter which a former Lord Chief Justice had written
to the Archbishop of Canterbury, deprecating certain
measures which were then on the point 9f being'
adopted, because " they would tend to unite the pee.
ple."fhe progress of the measures which had been
thought suited to the state of Ireland had been
marked by a deficiency in the revenue. He had no
doubt that if a course different from that which had
been taken at the time the Irish Parliament was ex-
tinguished had been preferred, that an opposite re-
sult would, have been witnessed. Had taxation been
diminished instead of increased, its produce would
have been greater. It was manifest that the absence
of the large landholders, deprecated as one of the
greatest of the evils which afflicted Ireland, was
likely to be increased by the measure of the Union.
That act had a tendency.to withdraw from the coun-
try its natural protectors.. The gentryof Ireland re-
moved to England, and consigned their territory to.
other hands—to those who bad not the same anxiety
for the welfare of those with whom they were thus
connected. Deprived of the fostering me of their
native gentry, that was taken from them, which the
late Mr. Sheridan bad declared it was pecidiarly the
duty of the English Government to supply—that in-
terest in each other's welfare which should bind the
several classes together. lie would say, that it was

. .
....ter further spgreassag them by
improvident mode of taxation. U -
rto the period -
the Union, Ireland bad been lightly taxed. It ought
to have continued lightly taxed, to induce the gensry
to remain there. The'crattrari course had *ems takeur
and the consequence was, while the amount of taxis
tion had increased, its produce had diminished. He
(Sir John Newport) hack-again and again opposed
himself to this 'system. *His voice had .been raised
against the imposition of such heavy taxes as had
been laid on, and be had pointed out to.Governthent
that they would reap as the fruits of their policy
every harvest but the right one. He had predicted
'that they would reap a large harvest of discontent,
but not of revenue. The). found the result what he had
declared it must prove. The absentees had increased.
A considerable number of the Irish gentry, broken
up' in their circumstances, had left Ireland to take re-
fuge in the watering-places of this country. They
had given up their establishments on the other side
of the water, to come and vegetate in lodgings here.
He considered that no greater evil could fall on a
country than to have taxes increased, that whilethey
were felt oppressively heavy by the people, they ceased
to be productive to the Treasury. Since 1808 addi-
tional taxes had been imposed on Ireland, which it
had been calculated would produce 4,000,0001. but
instead of doing this the amount of the revenue de-
rived from Ireland had: decreased. The four millions
thus laid on could not by possibility be paid, and po-
verty had paralyzed the hand of the tax-gatherer,
and set limits to the omnipotence of Parliament.
What had been paid had been partly taken from the,
capital, and not from the income of the country, and
that which he had foretold six years ago had come
to. pass, and it was seen that additional taxes served
but to diminish the revenue. While this enormous
increase of taxation was 'going on, calculating on a
revenue which it had been found impossible to raise,
a debt had been contracted for Ireland, so great that
had it continued to increase, its ultimate amount
would have baffled all calculation. It had, however,
been closed with what he called an act of bankruptcy
(he could give it no other name), for on the Ist of
January, 1817, the consolidation of the Exchequers
of the two countries had taken place, and this country
took upon herself the debt contracted for Ireland....
An Hon. Gentle Man, he remembered, had put a
question to him (Sir John Newport) as to when he
thought Ireland would be able to pay off part of the
sum which had been borrowed on her account. His
answer to the question was—" Never." This had
caused a laugh, upon which he had declared that
what he had said was spoken seriously. The taxes
thrown on Ireland from the time of the Union, which
amounted to two seventeenths of the whole revenue
of the Empire, were so enormous that they could not
be paid. He had said at the time, that if one seven-
teenth had been laid on instead of two, it might have
been paid. In fact Ireland had paid in that propor.
lion, or rather more. The sums borrowed to make
up the other seventeenth, England had, and still has
to pay. Notwithstanding the burdens thrown on the
people, such was the fertility of the country, as his
Right Hon. Friend the late. Member for Dublin had
said, " for which PROVIDSNCIL bad done so much,
and man so little, except to mar what PROVIDENCE
had done," that in spite of all, its exports increased.
He was, however, sorry to say that the effect of these
Was not like what it might have been under a better
system. It had been remarked in 1747, by Sir H.
Boyle, that no two millions of people in Europe con-
sumed so little of the produce they raised, as the two
millions who formed the population of Ireland. So
now, he (Sir J. Newport) would say, that no seven
millions of people consumed so little of the produce
they raised as the seven millions that peopled Ireland.
But why was this? It was almost impossible that it
could have happened but for the system of govern-
ment which had been acted upon. If the exports had
increased it was owing to the astonishing fertility of
the country ; it was owing to the botinty of PROVI
DENCI having outstripped the oppression of man. It
was time that the attention of Parliament should be
turned to this important subject. He had brought
forward a motion like that which he had now to offer,
in 1816. After some delay the discussion was fixed
for April 24, in that year. The Noble Lord oppo-
site had then said, he hoped that on that day the de-
bate would be marked not only by a full attendance,
but by their giving it their undivided attention. He
had said it was peculiarly the duty of that House to
watch over the rising greatness of Ireland, and to seek
a remedy for those evils of which she complained.
For " the rising greatness of Ireland," he knew not
to what such words could be applied. He did not
understand how they could be used, unless it was in
the manner of the sarcastic remark made by a pea-
sant in the Low Countries, who, when Philip 111. was
losing all his conquests, bad said, " the more that
was taken from them, the greater they were proved.°
In no other sense could he understand what had been
said of " the rising greatness of Ireland." He could
comprehend what was meant by the evils which then
required a remedy. He hoped the Noble Lord was
by this time prepared to come forward with that re-
medy which he thought was called for in 1816. He
knew he should be told that the person now at the
head of the Irish Government had been but a short
time there. He had, however, he must say, it ap-
peared to him, been there long enough to form a
pretty correct notion, with his previous knowledge
of the subject, of the real state of the case. But all
the members of the Administration were not new to
the subject. The Secretary of State for the Home
Department had long been Chief Secretary for Ire-
' land, and must be well acquainted with the situation
of the country. This subject had been brought for-
ward elsewhere, and the head of the Treasury had
replied to a question put to him on the Affairs of Ire-
lend, " that the tithe question" (he should speak on
I that presently)" was under the consideration of Go-
vernment, and he had -no difficulty in saying, that
the right to recover tithes was the same in England
as in Ireland, yet the situation of the two countries'
was such, that that was practicable in England which
was impracticable in Ireland, and therefore some
measure to correct the evil appeared necessary." This
had been said in 4816. He 'toped the child which
was then an infant had now gained years of discre-

theritselves - upon _
sores of conciliation and relief, with a view of rais-
ing the population of 'Mend (rem its pre-sear
wretched and degraded state. He, for his own part,
considered with his Right Itilriend, the Member:
for Dublin, that exile and were viot the only
instruments which a Government should use to sus-
tain .its authority, but they. were rather to be re-
tarded as miserable expedients,• the use of which be-
trayed the absence of all that-deserved the name of,
Government. ''On this principle he would act, and
having proved himself ready on an extraordinary
emergency to arm the Government with pospl%
stronger than those entrusted to them by the dab
nary laws, helnow desired to shew that these were
not to beconsislered ask part of the system, but as
a departure from the system to be laid down for. the
government of Ireland, not as the rule of govern-
ment (Goa forbid that it ever should be !)—but as an'
exception from the rule. The country had felt, and';
he hoped by this dine was convinced of the steady
determination of the Government, of the Legisla-
ture, and he hoped of every Member in that House,
to punish outrage and insurrection. It was now fit
that they should look to the evils which beset the'
country, and endeavour to supply a remedy, where a
remedy was necessary. This he wished to declare,
end also to set forth that it was their object to adopt,
with respect to Ireland, a mild and equitable system
of law which could alone produce that change in the
minds of the people which should lift them to that;
state' in point of moral habits which was inseparable'
from good government, and without which no good
government could exist. If he could suppose that
that House, in legislating for Ireland, might be ope-
rated upon by any selfish motives, he could shew
;hem that in proportion as Ireland had-declined, the
demand for English manufactures had fallen off.—
As taxation in Ireland had been augmented, the call
for English goods had diminished, because those who
were forinerly consumers ceased to be so, as they
bad no longer the means of paying. He.now came
to consider the rights of the Church. • For these no
man could have a greater respect than he had. He.
bad he been in Parliament, as certainly he was not
at the time of the Union, would.never have.consented
to such an adjustment, with respect to certain tithes,
as was then proposed. But while anxious to pro-
tect the rights of the Church, he was not content
that the rights of the People should go for nothing.
How did it happen that infinitely more was taken
from the People as tithes than went to the Church ?
There was a perpetual contention between the tithe
farmers and the wretched paupers, from whose food,
of whatever description, infinitely mote was taken
than ever found its way to the Clergy. Before he
concluded he could not but declare it to be his opi-
nion that that change must be made in tie penal
code which should admit every class of subjects to
a just participation in the blessings of the British
Constitution. On this corner stone he would say,
whatever was to be done for the relief of Ireland,
ought to be founded. He did not say, that this alone'
would suffice to remove all the evils complained of.
It was inconceivable that grievances which were the
growth of centuries, springing from-that 'horrible
code which was not a system .of law, but a system
opposed to all laws human and divine, which arrayed
in deadly opposition father against son, brother
against brother, and friend against friend—it was
inconceivable tint evils so deeply rooted could at
once be removed by any change that might be de-
vised. He could not say that such 'an effect would
Ibe produced by reforming the penal code, but this
he would say, that was the basis on which their
measures for the relief of Ireland ought to be
grounded. He knew that it had been tauntingly
said, the vices imputed to the population of Ireland
justified the coercion to which they were subjected.—
But how, he would ask, did it happen that these
puted vices attached to them only on their own soil,
and were not found in connection with the Irish cha-
racter elsewhere? The question was easily answered.
—lt was, because in Ireland that penal code was in
force, which did not extend to other parts. That
system which set father against son, and brother
against bruther,was not felt elsewhere, and the natu-
ral feelings of benevolence and good-will, which
glowed as warmly in an Irish heart as in that of any
human being, were then called fairly into play.—
Those who doubted this knew little of the Irish cha-
racter.
The Address with which he was about to
1, conclude, though couched in terms as temperate as
could be used, was, he understood to be put aside as
not. proper to be adopted at this moment. Such had
been the language held through the last two-and-
twenty years. It had allays been said the right time
bad not yet arrived—that the attempt to relieve ought
to be put off till to-morrow. He hoped the House
would brook no longer delay,. for that to-morrow
never would arrive, if the Legislature did not inter-
fere on behalf of Ireland till the Government called
on them to do so. Ha concluded by submitting the
following motion:
“ That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, to re.
present that the melancholy details contained in his •illajectes
gracious Speech from the Throne, and the
.documents laid before
tta at the opening of the Session of Parliament respraing the in.
ternal disquiet of considerable districts of Ireland, oblige us to
consider the state of that extensive and valuable part of the
United Kingdom as most cljairesdng and afflicting to the Legis-
lature, and dangerous in an extreme degree to the well-being
the Empire. That under circumstances of daring. insubordina-
tion to the laws, atrocious outrage, and insurrection, tie LVgis-*
lature deemed it to be its first duty to arm the Executive Po-
venynent with all the powers which were considered requisite,,
to punish outrage, to suppress insurrection, and to restore its
accustomed and salutary energy to the administration of conui-
tution4 law. We trust that the confidence placed by Parliament
in the Executive Government of Ireland will belound to have
been jnetified by the mild and temperate, yet firm exercise of
these extraordinary power!, and calculated to produce most bean-
-6441 present results. That having thus provided for this cab-
, pitons emergency, with reference to its immediate-pressure, we
feel ourselves now called upon to look to the great ulterior object,
of a prpessive And permanent amelicgation of the condition
and moral habits of the people. Decidedly impresied with a
conviction of the alarming consequences which must tenth from
a kmger lanninuance of the disorganised state of Ireland, which
has compelled the frequent recurrence of applications to Parlia-
ment for a suspension of constitutional law, and feeling the serious
respontability which must attach on the Ministers of the Crown
and on this !louse, from longer delaying to examine fully and
'effectually into. the causes of that disorganization, we desire to
assure his Majesty of the zealous co-operatkxt of this House

I

-4 °Mod, etel h
"nag as ea.
the United
laedict that w%
which
invilklity

. said, cr , .a lama tad
felt embarrassed is rising wthis subject, how much
more embervaseed amest•he (Mr. Goulbamgeel in
offeringhimself to the notice of the House, to speak
an the affairs of a country with which he had been
,connected so short a time, and with talents so infe.
Sitar to those of the Honourable Baronet. Bat white
be thought it necessary to claim the indulgence of ti
House, Ire would engage to follow the etanyk rf
the Right Hon. Baronet, by not trespassing on tbeit
time longer than the importance of the ,abject et.
mantled. - With respect to the question now Wed
the House, he trusted that he should not math en
wheille considered theobject of the Right Lim. IL.
ronet in bringing it forward to be rather to prom
a discussion on' the affairs of Ireland, than to get that
Address carried. Ile did not deny but there wrlt
facts and arguments embraced by the Address s‘ii:ds.
he was not prepared to dispute, and in which be star
ready to cdnear. He agreed that disorders hat re.
railed in Ireland—that to meet these, the Hnuse

its wisdom had given the Government of that coun-
try. those .extraordinary powers which were thought
necessary, nor could he doubt that those powers would
be found to have been used with that fit mess wit:l.4
was necessary to put down the disorders which pre.
vailed, yet, at the same time, with that mildness and
moderation which ought always to attend the est,.
case of powers like those alluded to. He did not der,
that such measures ought not to form the rule of ar:v
Government. He agreed that it was the duty of Ga-
vernment, in the first instance, to controul those ar•
dent spirits which weie found engaged in acts of re-
bellion and outrage, and be also agreed that, that
done, theirs was the higher duty of endeavouring to
root out the cause of the evil. To ascertain the real
grounds of complaint was that which it was their
duty to do=to inquire what would be the proper re-
medy, and to come to Parliament for such measures
as promised to supply a permanent cure. Bit con-
curring with the Right Hon. Baronet in all these
in-
stances, be could not go a step farther, an . say that
it would be proper to present to the Throne the Ad-
dress now before the House. It was not clear to Lin
that there were grounds for presenting an Address to
the CiciWn, merely because the facts which it staled
were trite. To do this would be a deviation from ti.:
established course, which might prove highly inter.•
,sistent, if not dangerous; and for this reason, on th:
pteCent'occasion, he sho ild move the previops gun-
Wen. The Address, it taken simply according to U.S
words it contained, would seem to instruct the Crown
what was the duty of a Government; and it would
be no very gracious compliment to the Government
in question, to suppose it so destitute of c-tpacity,
not to be aware that the first principles on which a
Government should act, required of thefts that they
should not only punish crimes when committed, but
that they should endeavour to root out the cause.—
But the Address went further than this. Every one
who had sat any time in that House, knew the mo-
tives with which such Resolutions were brought for-
ward, and the grounds on which they were resisted.
The Government so advised to attend to its duty
must, 'if such an Address were carried, be supposed
to have neglected it hitherto, or not to have known
what its duty was, aria would in either case appear
to be unworthy of the confidence of that House.—
Viewing it in this light, he must object to the adop-
tion of the Address ; 'and he would proceed•to
some reasons why, in his judgment, the I: ish Go-
vernment did not deserve that an imputation ef
that sort should be' thrown upon them, and wl
it would not only be extremely unjust to the Gc-
vernment, but likewise detrimental to the conntry.
If the present Government had been long in the ad-
ministration of Irish affairs, and had neglected to
turn their attention to the questions no•.v brought
forward, he w ould adMit'tbat there would be grounds
to doubt their readiness to undertake, and their ca-
pacity to supply a remedy for the evils complained
of. But he had a right to press on the consideratioa
of the House the very short period which had passed
since the present Irish Government had been in power.
It was surely too much that a Government which
had been in existence but little more than three

months should be called on by the Hon. Baronet to
be ready with a remedy for evils which were the
growth of centuries, and visited with censure for not
having already made a sensible progress towards re-
moving them. To act thus would not be the way to
animate them to a better discharge of their duty, nor
would it be likely to accomplish any of the objects
which the Right lion. Baronet professed to have at
heart. To supply a permanent remedy for the evils
complained of in Ireland, and to adopt the best mode
of promoting its interests, were undoubtedly objects
of .great importance ; but the consideration of these
involved questions of great intricacy and delicacy,
as the. Hon. Baronet himself would admit, and as
was proved by the slow and gradual steps by which
former Governments, when they had been long in
the Administration of Ireland, bad thought it neces-
sary to advance. He would ask them was it just,
under all the circumstances, to cast an imputation
on a Government that had not been in power thin
months, he should rather-say seven weeks, (tor
seven weeks had elapsed siucetheGovernment bad been
lastembled in Ireland), because they had not been able
to accomplish that which other Governments, after
being long in office, had found it so difficult to attempt'
fluvwhen the time was considered at which such a
step• was suggested, and the situation of Ireland was
taken into. consideration, the proposition then nt-
.surued a far more important shape. Ile thought
.every one would agree with him, that to se.ect a mc-
ment of great difficulty, when it had been necessary
to arm the Government •with extraordinary rower,
on which alone they could depend for the tranquillity
of Ireland, to take such a moment for casting a Pat-
liamentary stigma on that Government, and thus to
announce to the people that they were governed hi'
those who were unworthy of confidence, would t
to increase the evils which were admitted to exist. It
would be idle to say the people of Ireland would nti
understand such to be the meaning of 2 vote of di.tt
House, like that which he had supposed. The Irish
people were gifted with a qukkuess of verceptits:.
surpassing perhaps that of every other people k 3

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