Star.
London, England, 1831-09-24 00:00:00

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BANKRUPTCY COURT RTT.T..

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that It might be advisable to make the bill come into
operation in March next year, rather than in October in the
present year.
The Duke of RTCTIMOND mid great inconrenience
would ad.. from the adoption of the course proposed by the
noble duke. The hill legalised the rale of game, and up to
that hone he hail beard no objection to that provision. Oc-
whet, November, and December, might be called the game
sea.on. (ir plan.itlea of game would no doubt be ex-
posed roe *male, end could they call upon the magistrates
to p0r.1.11 P r•trota who mid it, whilst there appeared on
their .ta•nte hook a bill to make the sale lawful. The ma.
gi‘tr Itc-4, under 'itch circumstances, would feel a strang de-
tn rivnid puttintt the law in force. The noble duke bad
n toll hr one of the game salesmen, that last year he sold
2.090 held of game. That fact alone prov:xl the demand
f tivy article. and there was no denying that the market
11.-.0 he mt.-eked

The 3ittrntti‘ of SALISBURY thought they might will-
rste the bill anti page into a law that part which made the
a 31.• of game letral
Lord SU F FT E LT) could not consent to delay fora pink
tl.ty the operation of the Bill. He knew the duty the
Inntligtratett had to disvharee• It wa', nyeelwa'Y that the
•sle of genie should he leealiztsl, but he could by no means
slow a part of the 111;11 to be aw,pended.
After a f.w o!,•ereationa from the Earl of CARN AR.
I'ON, the 13111 wws referred to a select committee.

•
The said committee was notninAted instanter.
PREPARATIn74II FOR TILE REFORM Elul..
The Earl cf StIAFTESBUIIY read the report of a
committe of the house, recommending their lordships to
nthiress his 'Majesty, in order to procure the erection of side
galleries. for the accommodation of Peers during the pro-
gress of the Reform 13ill. The Committee recommended
the erection of a gallery on each side of the House, similar
to those erected in 1820, at the trial of Queen Caroline.

BEER BILL.
The Rad of H ARPOWBY rose on the order of the day
fur receiving the report of the Beer Bill, and proposed to
amend the first clause by insetting words to the effect, that
bnr.bouvs be shut on Sunday, during the usual hours in
the morning and evening when Divine &tyke takes place.
The noble earl alsreproposed to remedy a defect. Th 2 law
prohibited, he said, the sale of wine and spirits In beer.
houses, but did net prevent the consumption. It had been
discovered that spirits had been given away In the beer. He
therefore proposed to insert in the licence that no wine or
spirits be consumed in the said houses. The noble earl
having proposed clauses containing his amendments, the
same were added to the Bill, which, after a few words from
Viscount Melbourne, was ordered to be plinted with the
amendments.

The house went in-to committee again upon the Bank-
r:totcy Court Bill.
Lord AVYNFOTZD rose to discharge his ditty with res-
rert to this bill, and to state the objections which he bad
allulltd to upon a former occasion. In the first
cl tuse of the hill it was pmposed to form a new c mrt. He
had :twat-W.4y opposed alterations of the courts then consti.
ruled for the Ju,lvs of the land. A new court could be
productir of no possible good, but a great deal of ex-
pense. It would be an addition to the expenses of the
country to toe amount of nine thousand pounds a year,
witic't was to b., taken front the Suitors' Fund. To his

opinion. they had no right to take the money front the
Suitors' Fund for such a purpose. The money was to come
from that hind at a time when very large claims were fixed
upon it. There was no necessity for the creation of such a
court, consequently thera could be no pretence for making
t:te Su'tor's Fund applicable to the expanse. It could not
I.e necessary when business was done with the facility it was
at present. There bad been no complaint of the judgments
tinder the present system, and it was not possible the public
wonti hay- the sante confidence in the decisions of new
kuloes.—The N 07.?.. and Learned Lord, in stating his ob-
jections to the m..ssure. said, he had been informed by per.
runs residing in Lo::tion well acquainted with the fact, that
the 'traders of London generally were opposed to the Bill,
especially to that anise of it which provided for the ap-
pointment of official assignees. He then concluded by
moving. as an amendment, that all those words in the first
douse which bad reference to the appointment of a new
Court be left nut.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said, he should take oc-
casion briefly to go over the statements he had made the
ether night, in consequence of the absence of the Noble
•"1 Learned Lord (Wynford). In doing so, his Lord-
shin took occasion to observe. that the Court at Review In-
tended to be established under the new system, although
.it might, in .the absence of other business, sit cn cases
from the 'Vim Chancellor's. yet the Court would not be
superseded. It was also proposed that judgments delivered
in the Court of Review might be appealed from to the'
Great Seal.
After some converts ion between the Duke of Wellington,
Lord radon, and the Lord Chancellor, respecting the patent
rights or Lord Thurlow's successors,
Lord PLUNK ETT supported the measure, and spoke oil
the necessity of granting compensation to those parties who
should be injured by it.
After a remark from Lord WI'NFORD the amendment
was negatived without a division.
The report was then ordered to be brought np to-morrow
(this day) or Monday. The bill to be read a third time on
Tucsday.
Adjourned at Half-past Eight o'Clock.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Col. TORRENS said he wished to make some observe-
tinns on what had been said by a learned gentlemen (Sir C.
Wetherell) in his absence on the observations he had made at
tie Common-hall. He there said, that if the desire of the
people for reform should go on increasing, as he was mod
tient it would. and if 'he Lords continued obstinately to le-
ftise compliance with the wishes of the people, the Lords
themselves might be p it in schedule A. He would wish
tie learned gentleman, in the fertility of his fancy, to in.
vent a term that would more mildly express what might
C en become the state of things in this country.
Sir C. WETHERF.LL said, his fancy could not lead
him to imagine any state of things which could place the
Lords in schedule A, that would not at the same time destroy
liouse of Commons, the institutions of the country, and
ter church. (Hear.) If the Peers of England were now
%lint their ancestors were, they would act without fear. And
it would require all the fancy of the gallant officer to sup-
pi se that they should be placed in the schedule A of some
kiwi:int& set of the Howe of Commons. (Hear.)
fir. JOHNSToNE presented a petition from the Fife
dh.!riet of burghs, against disfranchisement of the Eastern
P.fe district of Burghs.
Vol. LINDSAY presented a petition from the burgh of
Kilready a !aims distianchisement.
Sir ROBERT PR YCE reported from the Pembroke-
shire Election Committee, declaring that the election was
void. and that the conduct of the High Sheriff was
marked by culpable neglect, and that of his Under Sheriff
by t.rooi partiality, and that of the Assessor by inefficiency.
31r. JA MRS asked, whether the hon. member or the
Committee meant to bring the subject before the House on
the evidence?
Sir ROBERT PRYCE said, Ihe meant to move that
the minutes'ef evidence be laid before the House; but
lie slid not mean to proceed further, as he thought it cer-
tain that the next election would be conducted with strict
correetnes,
Mi. BLACKNEY said, it would be very improper to
trod the writ to the same returning officer.
3lr. D. BROWN said, as one of the Committee, the
thought it would be a severe thing on the electors and the
candidates to issue a new writ to the sante Sheriff.
Sir OF.OlttlE W tRRENDEK thought, iu justice to
the High Sberiff, the Committee, the electors, the can-
didates, and the House, the evidence should be called for
and printed.
Sr R. PRYCE moved, that the minutes of evidence be
laid on the table and be printed.--Agreed to.
Sir O. htURR AY presented a petition from the Univer-
sity of Edinburgh, praying that the House would grant Se-
presentative% to the Scotch Universities.
31r. DUNDAS heartily concurred in the prayer of the
petition.
Sir WILLIAM RAE supported the petition, and pre.
tented a similar petition from the University of St. An.
drew's.
The Lord ADVOCATE said no one could be more fa.
vourable to the prayer of the petition than he was ; the sub-
ject had been under consideration, and the result, and the
reasons for that result, should be stated to the house when
the prop r time came.
Mr. WA RBUR'fON said, the best way of judging the
propriety of giving representatives to the Scotch universities
would be to look at The conduct of the English universities.
lie thought they returned members for their party poli-
tics, nor fur literature or science; be should therefore oppose
tate motion.
Sir U WARREN DER thought the prayer of the peti.
tit ion should be complied with.
Sir J. WALSH gave notice that be would move, before;

the Scotch reform bill should go into committee, that it be
an instruction to the committee to provide for the repre-
sentation of the Scotch universities.
BELGIUM. •
Sir R. VIVYAN gave notice that, on Monday, he
should put a question to the Noble Secretary for Foreign
Affairs, respecting French officen being allowed to remain
in Belgium.
REFORM 111 PCOTLAND BILL.
The Lord ADVOCATE nutted the order of the day for
the second reading of the Scotch reform bill.
Mr. GOULBURN asked when the Irish reform bill wee
to be read a second time.
Lord A LTHORP said he wished to c msult the conve-
nience of the house whether the Scratch bill should be first
disposed of, or whether the Scotch and Irish should be
taken alternately.
The order of the day having been read,
The LORD ADVOCATE rose.—He said he role to
move, in the terms of the order which had just been read,
that the Bill to amend the Representation of Scotland be
read a second time; and certainly when he looked to what
the state of that representation was now.—and to what it had
been ever since the Union at least, (and In his apprehension
lung before that period), and to the nature of the changes
proposed by this measure, he should not have considered his
taste an arduous one to induce every Member of the House
to =lent to it; but that it was impossible not to know that
there hail been already certain indication of displeasure, not
at any of its details, but to the whole measure, and to
discourage the introduction of any means of relief for
Scotland, in the speech of some Honourable Members
in this House. He believed the House and country had
bet.' long aware of the defects of the representative sys-
tem of Scotland, but from the opportunities be had
of judging, he believed the House and the country hpd but
a very imperfect idea of the almost incredible extent of the
defects of that system. Such was the state of that system
of representation, that It was surprising how it could have
existed so long in the neighbourhood of such a country as
England, of which, too, it formed an integral part. The
right hon. baronet opposite had spoken of the Scotch repre-
sentation as if it was like the nomination boroughs, and it
was under the controul of the Aristocracy, and was chiefly
valuable as an antidote to the too democratic represents.
tion of England. It was certainly true that the repre.
sensation of Scotland was not a democratic representation;
it only reprtscoted an insignificant oligarchy, not generally
connected with the landed interest of the country. (Hear.)
The wholes cons itueney of the thirty counties consisted
of hut 3,000 votes, and many of the electors had votes foe
difFetent counties, so that the whole number of electors
consisted of no more than about 2,500 persons. The
electors for the burghs were about 1,440 for 66 burghs,
being 22 tor each. The whole number of electors for Scot.
land could t ot be more than about 4,500. It was impossible
;that such a number coulo form a constituency expressing
the ophilaas and feelings of the people. (Hear, hear.)
; But the qualification of the electors rendered this still Mee
possible. The qualification in the counties was holdhig- a
lessperiority over lands in general possessed by others ; with
perhaps a charge of a penny or a shilling a year; so that
more than half the electors for counties bad no interest in
the soil. In Argyll the number of voters was 119, of whom 54
had no ptopeny in the land.—ln Bute there were 21 voters,
only one of whom had property. At one election there was
but one elec or, and that one was the Sheriff. He called the
, roll—the one answered—he proposed and seconded the can.
Ididate, voted fur him, and made a unanimous return.—
(Great laughter.) The same thing might occur again.—
Hear, hear.) In Caithness there were forty-two voters,
—thirty-six had no property. In Dumbarton, the whole
vote's were seventy-one—fifty-seven having no property.—
The whole of the counties were in nearly the same propor-
tion ; decidedly more than one-half the electors had no
property in the land.— (Hear, bear, hear.) This state
of franchise was most injurious to resident landowners, and
the proportion of voters having no property was constantly
increasing, and the elections were falling into the hands of
persolis who had no connection with the land. The superi-
urities were frequently purchaeed by attoenies for the sake of
profit. In the burghs these was no popular election. The
elections were all made by office bearers ; and all the Aloe
bearers elected their successors. Glasgow, which contained
200,000 inhabitants, and as much of wealth and intelligeice
as any 200,000 inhabitants out of the metropolis of the
pire, (Hear) had but thirty-three electors; and even that
body had no power to do more•than concur with three other
rowns in the election of one member. In Edinburgh the
election was also in thirty-three skitters, almost all ranking
below the middle class. The.other principal towns wen
similarly circumstanced. Such a state of representation was
so vicious and indefensible, as to make its extent a matter of
surprise; and to any person to whom it was stated for the
first time, without ate ng evidence, of incredulity. (Hear.)
Yet he supposed they would be told that under the fostering
care of these representatives Scotland had flourished.—
(Hear, hear.) Scotland had certainly flourished and been
Feverous under this state of representation; but would
any man endeavour to connect that prosperity with her state
of representation ? Would any man say it was by deprive
Mg her people of the right of electing their dill
that Scotland prospered ? (Hear, beer.) Hebelieved that
the system was detrimental to Scotland ; that she never had
any benefit from her representative system. The feudal
times might be passed over. Before the Union of the
Crowns, there was no materials for representation ; but from
the Union of the Crowns to the Union of the Kingdoms, the
state of Scotland was one of degradation and compassion.—
( Hear, hear, hear.) Scotland, In all ages, had more than
her share f eminent writers ' • she had her eminent war-
riors, and eminent men ; but she had no Pali&
mentary heroes ; they were excluded by the defects of her
representation. (Hear.) The consequence was not merely
in oppression, but the degradation which gave oppression lace.
punity (Hear, hear.) During the succession of braveness.'
liberty in England, Scotland exhibited little more than the
strength of her religious feeling. Her people *hewed indif-
ference to political rights; but became heroes when religion
was invaded. The Union of the kingdoms was a bargain
hard on the part of the more powerful nation' and consented
to from no creditable motives on the part of the weaker.
England retained her 513 members, and Scotland bad her
157 diminished to 45. (Hear.) No doubt her representa-
tion was absorbed in the English; but it was transplanted
into a nobb soil. ( Hear, hear.) The rights of Scotland
were at least brought to view, and committed to the ears of
the body of English representatives. Under the imperfect
representation many noble-minded persons were returned,
and benefits were conferred on Scotland ; but in his tome
science he believed the case would be the same if the
forty-five Scotch members were returned by the Sone
reign or the Commander of the Forces. (Hear, hear.)
Benefits were conferred oo Scotland by their representatives,
as high minded despots often confer benefits on their slaves.
But the representatives did not derive their right from the
people, and were not accountable to them. The crying
rail, however, was not the independerce of the represents.
tires of their constituents • but it was the alienation of the
whole people of Scotland from their representative
system. (Hear.) For more than 50 years after the union,
the deadness of the people.of Scotland to public questions
was almost incredible. Since then la public opt lion was
growing up, but it was wholly apart from any connection
with the Government, and it was hitherto neglected by all
the upper classes of society It had now, however sheers
itself' in a manner more atrorgly than in any other part
of the kingdom. (Hear, hear, hear.) An honourable
member had said, the people of Scotland were Indif.
ferent on the question of Reform. He really believed, that
the feeling in favour of Reform was deeper and stronger its
Scotland than any other part of the United Kingdom; and
amongst all thinking people of Scotland, the almost univer-
sal opinion was, that reform was mote urgently necessary'
for Scotland than fur any part of England ; and be believed
any disappointment of their hopes would be attended with
more serious consequences than in any part of England.—.
(Hear, hear.) He testified this with pain, but he thought it
his duty to testify it as a matter of tact. (Hear.) He should
now explain the change it was proposed to make in the
present system of representation in Scotland. He believed
the House would agree in the °pintos, that the change was
a boon to Scotland, and a benefit to the empire. The whole
system of Scotch representation was bad, and the principle,
of the bill was, that no tag or thread—no jot or tittle of le
should remain. (Hear, hear.) Was there any tiles
alarming to the most timid in this ? (Hear, heaw) Tie
bin would say that forty or Any electors In a sweaty, whe
had no property in it, should not exclude two as
thousand proptieton, and who would say tbst was Set
right ? (Hear. hem.) The bill would say that IP deems
In a borough should not exclude some thousiod lobs
Intents, and who would say that was wrong? (Hear.
The particulars of the bill were already before the bast
hl
the printed copy, and be should not enter into mesh dot
tall. The occupancy of land of 101. value would Ove
vote foe mind's, and the occupancy of a house of 101. vs
lue would girt a vote in a town. Glasgow, that had now 1111
electors, for estelourth of a member, by the bill world bate
5000 or 6000 electors and two members to itself, Edinberygh

would also have two members, and Aberdeen, Paisley,
Dundee, and Greenock, would each have one member. In
eeply to the argument used on the other side. in the debate
on the English Reform Bill, of some small places being al-
lowed to return Members, which was also the case in the
Scotch Bill, he would say it was done on the principle that
regulated all human affairs, expedienesr. They only cut offs,.
presentation in extreme eases, and allowed it to continua to
places where it would not be given if it was not already pos.
Nosed ; they a/so gave au addition of five 31embers to the
whole representation, which it was hoped• would be re-
ceived with satisfaction.—(Hear, hear.) He should not now
enter into matters of detail, which he hoped would soon be
discussed on more fitting occasions. Unless any of these
matters were such objections as to amount to a total rejec-
tion of the bill, he thought they should not be allowed to In-
tet fere with the second reading of the bill ; and he should,
therefore, not longer detain the house, but move that the bill
be read a second time. (The loudest cheering followed.)
Mr. C. DOUGLAS said, be was anxious to avoid enter.
ing into the details of the bill, and should oppose the princi-
ple, botif the bill were to be carried, he should make a much
larger claim for increased representation than was made by the
bill. He was ready to admit that a greet excitement existed in
Scotland on the subject of reform,which he thought was pro-
duced by means calculated to mislead the judgment. (Hear.)
Improvement in the representation of Scotland was certainly
desired ; but the clialve proposed by the bill would destroy
vast he might call the domestic contentment of the coun-
ties of Scotland. (lieu, heir.) The learned lord had
admitted that Scotland had prospered under the present
system. Sac had, indeed passed front a state of barrenness
.to fertility—from poverty to wealth--and, above all, from
rebellion to devoted loyalty. The learned lord had given
the worst possible description of the Scotch eltctois. Many
electors could not vote out of their own land because ano-
ther had the superiority ; but it did not follow that the
bolder of the superiority might not also be a landed propel-
s/tn. If the superiority could he given to the proprietor of
the land, it would be a great advantage; but the superiority
constituted a property ; and the land was sold fur less from
being separated from the superiority. Still Scotland had in-
creased so much since the union, that her excise and commis
were now fifty-fold. He thought the bill an attack on the
landed interests of Scotland by its onion of counties. The
county of Bute was to be annexed with Dumbartonshire.
which exceeded in population two of the Scotch counties,
taken together, which were to return one member each, and
was also more populous titan two of the English counties,
having two members each. Tie thought himself entitled to
claim sixty members for Scotland, on grounds as strong es
an increase of members in England had been given. He
must also object to giving • representation to house pro.
petty in Scotland. At least it s'tould be on • different
footing from land-101. in land was equal to 201. in house
property. The farmers of Scotland were deserving of the
highest gratitude of their countrymen, but he thought
giving them the franchise would not be a benefit, and was
not desired by them/ The hon. gent. concluded by moving
that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.
Mr. RA MSAY supported the motion.
Mr. GI LLON supported the original motion.
Sir GEOItGE WARRF.NDP.R said he bad changed his
opinion on Scottish Reform; because when he gave his first
opinion he had acted upon information on which he thought
he could have depeaded ; but on the same information, he
now acknowledged that Reform was necersary fur Scotland.
Mr. K. DOUGLAS said he did not think it would be
expedient to oppose the second reading; but in the details
of the Bill there were many things that he thought he might
find fault with.

Mr. FERGUSON congratulated his countrymen that the
fictitious representation which had been so often reproached
to Scotland, and which was the work of unfaithful commis-
slunets at the time of the Union, was row to be commuted
for a furl, fair, and true representation. Their English and
Irish friends bad often shaken hands with them on the score
of hi spitality, but they would now do so on the score of
political independence.—(Hear.)
Colonel LINDSAY denied that the reform would lead to
any practical benefit in Scotland. Scotland was already a
happy country ; her lower orders were industrious, enlight-
ened, and attached to their humane and beneficent aristo-
cracy. He complained of the prepondence given to the town
voters over the agricultural. He did not consider five addi.
tional members a counterpoise for the lose Scotland sustained
by the disfranchisement of the English close boroughs, many
of which returned Scotch gentlemen to Parliament. Scotland
was only to have fifty members, while England was to have
487, though her population in 1821 was to that of England
as two to twelte, atid lierartresat as Ara to forty-icon. He
dealed that there was naturally a feeling in favour of reform
in Scotland. In the course of the ten years previous to the
introduction of the bill, only three or four petitions praying
for reform had been presented from Scotland.

Sir C. GRANT said, there had existed in Scotland for
several years past a feeling that some change must take
place in the state of her representation. The represents.
don of Scotland was at present a mere monopoly in the
bands of an oligarchy. Her population, however, was as
enlightened and independent as that of the rest of the cm-
Ore. It would not be generous or just in the House to re-
fuse that to her which they gave to England. He trusted
they would grant to Scotland the boon for which she was
so anxious, and that they would thus rivet those bands
which, he hoped, would be eternal between the two as-
dess,--(Cbeers).
lie G. CLERK denied that the county representation of
needles* was a mo :opoly; it represented fully the landed in-
elsest. appealed to the growing prosperity of Scotland
es a proof of the excellence of her constitution. It bad
been hitherto the grand argument of the reformers, that their
principle was conservative • but the Lord Advocate now
boasted that not a vestige of old system in Scotland was
to be retained. He did not wish to enter into the details of
the bill .he would not anticipate those labours which were
so fitting for the consideration of the Committee; but be
could not avoid expressing the greatest anxiety respecting
the Wens of a bill which left no part of the representation
of Scotland untouched and unchanged. He very much
feared that the reform now proposed would very materially
affect the good understanding that heretofore existed be-
tween the different classes of society. The excitement
that existed in Scotland had been occasioned by the bill;
but he hesitated not to say that if it were withdrawn, the
people of Scotland would soon return to that respect for their
representatives, and that tranquillity which they had so long
enjoyed. But be the'result what it might, he doubted not
that the evils of the bill would be found to far outweigh its
advantages. (Hear.) The effect of this bill would be com-
pletely to destroy the agricultural and landed interest.. of
Scotland, and to throw the influence into the hands of the
101. householders. That he deemed would be a great mis-
chief. Public opinion, democratic feeling, had previously
exerted quite sufficient influence in, as well as out of that
house. (Hear.) To increase that influence, he thought,
would be prejudicial. Having voted against the English
bill in all its stages, and considering that this measure was
only a part of the bill, and as this measure proposed so ma-
terially to alter the qualification, he should oppose It in all
its stages. (Hear, bear.)
Sir .I. MACKINTOSH strongly supported the bill, is
calculated to uphold the rights and Interests, the character
and honour of the country. Its merits had been narrated
with great eloquence and philueophical calmness by the Lord
Advocate. It left nothing to be said in support of the
principle of the bill. It had been mortifying to ficotehmen
to bear what had been said respecting the non-representation
of their country; but he hoped the cause for tharmortifica-
don was about to be destroyed for ever. He would not be
led into the details of the bill, though many mambas bed
indulged in comments on them. Ile should like to bear
some English member on this subject. Would any one say
that that was a good out free government where there wee se
popular representation ? There was DO five or popular rows.
'caution in Scotland; he therefore contended that there wee
no good government for Scotland; the representation now pre.
s!ewas submitted because Scotland was entitled to IL _
, hear.) The improvident and present eendition et
sti did not result from the present state et the repo-
Natation—it was what it had been in the 17th slim —but
front the union with England. and the exam* et a bee
ceestry.—( Hear.) Such wu the state of the isipost
of Scotland, that the grossest abuses in BROM WM UM.
plan perfection compared with the sen.itigated and neentnnil
evils of the repeessahude• of flenuand.—(Bear, bow}:
The repeats ads. eteepiesi bed hew tweatel se* emit
cones saw
Qmellle hard been penhasett kw the
purpose et sew suasestidly *Mpg
urged * tie to
sisespresgit&--
And what ebjecties emit be
amend sub a ones of w'e'pt'. P To st aha mead
reading et the 818, mild be to declare that the people of
Illeetiond were unfit to pewees good govetement ; Ace and
popular be eeetioded, ossethuting an mass-
pert --(Hear, haw)
r. S. ir0.19.17=1 be bad abiagibmi waguipmethis bin
but be did not deem thls the stage se prip the
width be bad to oar. The entunet=tereleflet
reknit in Ragland did not apply to there m-
isted the greatest uniformity in the ropesummies. log

parts of it were bad, decidedly bad, nothing could be worse
than the borough representation of Scotland. He should
not oppose the second reading.
g;rMURRA.If mad, should be enter into the details of
the Bill—that would be toeing occupation of time—for he
had the most decided objection to the principle of the Bill.
Ha felt great interest In the English Bill—but he felt
smirch strange
proposed :, lteyser:idlo,a, and to
sewn time. , the Bill
ished
ham to remark, that be had before expressed that he
Watt net altogether against reform in Scotland—he should
OM Select to a modification of the representation of Scot-
.hut he did object to the complete abandonment of the
system prescribed by the present bill. (Hear.) From
that total change he apprehended that the most fearful results
would ensue. The electors were not numerous, but cer-
Offaly they were not under the controul of any oligarchy.
Tin constituency, he contended, was of the most indepen-
dent character. (Hear, hear.) One argument in favour
it the English bill had been, that the people demanded
Infant could that be said respecting Scotland ? or had
set the demand or excitement resulted from suggestion,
Iltons the bill being ofleretl to them ? That being
the fact, was It safe to submit to the clamour that had been
so excited ? When Louis tile Sixteenth put himself under
the guidance of Necker, whose power rested on concession
to the populace, his throne was soon overturned.—( Hear,
hear) What had the people of France gained ? They had
I struggled forty years to gain the promised land—had they
reached it ? Were they nearer to it ? He trusted they
were ; but was there any positive proof of it ? The Learned I
Lord said he would not allow a rag to remain of the present
system— (Hear, hear)—that was the principle on which the
Fmch Reformers set out: all knew what was the conse-
quence.—(Hear.) The Learned Lord and the Right Hon.
Member for Knaresborough admitted the harmonious state
of Society that existed in Scotland, where the chivalrous
feelings of another age blended with the improvements and
refinements of the present,and all was harmony & prosperity.
Within the last 50 years Scotland had improved more than
any other country, and yet they were told that all this im-
provement took place under a system so vicious, that it was
indispensable that it should be cotirely destroyed. (Hear.)
If the advocates of the measure would prove that any posi-
tive advantage would arise to the people, he was willing to
concur in any change ; hut he was not willing to put all the
advantages Scotland now enjoyed In jeopardy, that the
learned lord and his friends might try their experiment
(Hear, hear.) It was said reform would prevent war ;
but fook to France—the democracy of France desired
war, and it was necessary fur the government to gra.
tify their passion fur its own preservation ; and it was
probably owing to the prudence of the English government
that war was prevented. (Hein If, however, Scotland
was to have what he considered evils of the bill, it was
entitled to its benefits. In England a great increase of re-
presentation to populous counties, but no such advantage was
given to the Semen counties. It was wholly impossible that
a change faltprtial could be final. (Hear, hear.) It was true
ohs an ies in Scotland were not always possessed by the
psessesers of the land; but no such title could be created
without ommection with the land of the country. (fleas.)
He repaid that the noble lord opposite. and the noble I ird
at the head of the Government had allowed themselves to be
drawn into a whirlpool, which would too probably cause
the shipwreck of themselves and their country. (Hear, hear.)
Lord ALTHORP said the question now lay in a very
small compass. After a bill had passed the house for a
reform in the representation of England, was Scotland to
be allowed to remain as it was ? The right honourable
gentleman (Sir G. Murray) admitted that some measure
of reform was necessary for Scotland ; his ( Lord Althorys)
opinion was, that one entire blemish covered the whole sys-
tem of the representation of that country, for which reason
he hoped the bill would be allowed to be read a second
time. (Hess.)
After a few words from Mr. Hunt,
Mr. C. PELH AM said, the present bill was as objec-
tionable as the other.

After which the house divided, when there appeared—
For the second reading 409
For the amendment' That the bill be read
a second time that day six months'.... 94

Majority in favour of the second reading 115
The bill veu then ordered to be committed on Monday
next.
Mr. BRUCE gave notice, that he should in committee
move that additional members be given to the town of In.
MMUS .

The other ordcre of the day were then disposed of, and
the hawse adjourned at a Quarter Past Two o'Clock.

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE.

GERMAN PAPERS RECEIV FD THIS DAY,
VIENNA, SEPT. 10.—The Breese* Gazette of
the Bth announces that on the 31st Augnst, a
woman, and on the let September, her son, a
young man, 20 years of age, died at Trirchan, in
the county of Zunims, after a very short illness ;
and that to prevent the alarm that might otherwise
be caused by the circumstance, the Board of Health
ordered the bodies to be examined and opened ,when it
was evident that the death of these persons had been
caused by inflammation of the bowels, proceeding
from their having eaten an immoderate quantity of
unripe plums, and other indigestible food, and from
their having refused all medical advice.
From the Lemberg Gazette of the 2d, it appears
that on the Ist, there remained only 22 persons
afflicted with cholera in that city. From the com-
mencement of the disorder on the 22d of May, to
the let of September, there had been at Lemberg
4,993 cases, 2,558 recoveries, and 2,613 deaths.
According to accounts that had been received,
there is now not a single patient with symptoms
of cholera at Bruck or the Leitha.
FuNDs.---Five per Cent. ktetalliques 77 11-16.
Four per Cent. Do. C 7 7-!e. Bank Shares 941.—Am:rims
Observer, Sept. H.
BERLIN, Sgev.l4.—His Majesty the King has
issued a proclamation, respecting the measures
which have hitherto been adopted, and those which
are henceforth to be observed for preventing the
spread of the cholera. Though all the precautions
taken have not been able to prevent the intro-
duction of the disorder, they have been at-
tended with very beneficial effects. Yet
as experience since the appearance of the disease
in our provinces has thrown new light on the sub-
ject. His Majesty has ordered the existing regu-
lations to be revised and modified, in consequence
of which a great change is to be made with
respect to the military cordons in the in-
terior of the kingdom, which have been
found to be highly detrimental to the interests of
the people, and which besides could not be conti-
nued in the autumn to the same extent. His
Majesty has therefore ordered other measures in
each commune, which, with God's blessing, will,
he hopes, be found effectual ; but in which, it
is absolutely necessary, that the people themselves,
in whose obedience to the laws his Majesty
places entire confidence, should concur. To this
proclamation is annexed a notice from the Board
of Health, by which the military cordons are el
most every where suppressed. The quarantine
stations on the frontiers will be retained. TIM
line of quarantine for travellers and merchandise
be fixed at fire days. Travellers cannot be hin-
dered from passing through the towns and villages.
Persons residing in houses that are closed cannot
be obliged to remain then more than five days.—
Navigation to be free in those provinces in which
the cholera prevails.
Various public works are ordered to employ la-
bourers who are in want of work.—Frankfort Pa-
pers, Sept.l7-
HAIsAII, SEPT. 11.--The report that the elector
will shortly go on a journey is renewed since the
return of M. Wiedarbold, who, as a member

of the deputation, lately waited on the elector, ati
expressed their wish that his Royal Highness mi;i4
return to Cassel. It is supposed that the elect,
will go to French Switzerland, and appoint
Regency during his absence, of which the Electo-
Prince will be at the head. A change in the NI,,
nistry is also spoken of. —Nuremberg
deist, Sept. 15.

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THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON, SATURDAY, SEPT. 24.

Owno'CLocr. Tins DAY.—Thermometer, 70. E...
rometer, 30.20. Weather, fine. Wind S.W.

We have this day to announce the arrival cf
another German Mail ; but not one word abou:
Warsaw, or the important events which, in even
point of view, must have followed the terrible hatt:,
of the 7th, and the alleged entry of the Russians
on the Sth. There is a number of the Nuremberg
Correspondent of the 17th, wholly silent in regard
to events which must create a greater interest in
Germany even than in France and England ;
to the credit of the young men in Germany, the:
have, as far as possible, been volunteers in the
Polish cause. The subject would, therefore, prs-

MSS peculiar interest at Nuremberg, where the
Pr s is as free as in any city of Germany ; and it
is scarcely more remote from the seat of war Om
Berlin.

On the silence of the Berlin Papers to the 17th
we remarked yesterday, and that the Journals of
that enlightened city should have made an sou:-
stirring an announcement on the 12th, and then
forbear for five days to return to the subject, or
that no further advices should have reached Berlin
in that lapse of time, is altogether unaccountable.
Yesterday we gave place to an article from
Tilsit of the 9th, and Tilsit we know is above
one hundred miles beyond the Vistula: it is
evident, therefore, that the communication is
not entirely closed, and yet there appears to be
no accounts from Warsaw since the Bth. We
are unwilling to rase false hopes in our readers,
or to commit ourselves in their judgment; but as
we are obliged to receive all our information
through Prussia, and that Government allows no-
thing to appear in its subservient journals, bat
that which favours the Russians, and is adverse to
the Poles, we infer much from this ill-timed and
mysterious silence.
Any person who observes the course of the Vis-
tula on any respectable map, will perceive
that if the Poles had, or have, any considerable
force either at Modlin or Plock, no movement
could be more natural than their crossing
the Vistula, and assailing the Russian positions in
the rear—previous to which they might, however,
very properly await the commencement of the as-
sault by the Russians. If this were not done, it
would indicate a fatal exhaustion and paralisation
of the Polish forces, while it would fully account
for the interception of despatches of the Russians
to Berlin.

We are further justified in this speculation by
all the reports of the previous numbers of the
Polish army, and by the known fact, that within a
week of the assault, they had appeared in great force
in the direction of Plock, obviously without any
other military object than to cross the Vistula, and
place the Russians between two fires. If, there-
fore, the Russians, as is reported, 105t.30,000 men
in their desperate and reckless assault, and we think
it not unlikely, any disposable Polish force ad-
vancing upon their positions and depots in the
rear, might be able to change the results of the
campaign.
We hazard all this as a mere speculation, founded
on the fact of the non-arrival of any intelligence,
and on a military coup d'cril of the aches occupied
by the contending parties. If we should be it
error, and if the unparalleled circumstance should
have occurred, that Polish generals at a distance
considered themselves compromised by the occu-
pation of Warsaw, we are persuaded that our rea-
sonings upon the subject will be candidly excused
by the friends of Ltasakvir and of POLAND.

We give place to the Icdoming Letter, which ice
find in the columns of the Morning Herald of this
day. It may or may not have been written a!
Berlin on the 14th, as stated ; bat it obviously coo•
tains no facts in addition to those which appeared
in the Berlin Gazette of the 12th; and some tad

might either be on dits at Berlin, or the ingenious
and harmless inventions of a political novelist Is
London. The is certain—that down to the lith.
the Berlin Papers were wholly silent.
Beams, Sere. 14.—As late as the sth Paskewisti
attempted a mersdation ; bat mime was the maw ?
Preadspesid, as Chief et the Omani MA sod sativied
by
die liCruk"lial as
Bussise the walls et Wassearlia".lll that the
dellmesaibikrag::'
thasala's ladqssediass, nibs: ohms as saneader. Pio
which was equally Measwide. The Cesspess, stid,
missed spat the aa hooded's of the hisedem of IP
as be add praMse aaddag mete tams vs sisswq