Star.
London, England, 1807-04-16 00:00:00

choke •of his Minifters, it would go to this, that
however exceptionable any let of Minifters might
be, that Houle was bound not to exprefs any fen
'intent upon them. If fuch a doOrine were admitted,
the confequences might be extraordinary indeed, and
we Wet potlibly have fume of the extravagancies
of ancient Rome ailed in this country, and a boric,
*night bs let up fin. a With regard to the
affertion, that upon there Cabinet meetings which
thole place upon the fobje& of the Catbolic Bill, fuch
Members were excluded as diffented from it, it was
totally incorrea. For the fart was, that at all the dif-
cations which took place relative to that meafure,all
the Cabinet meetings were full up to the'period at
which the diffention arose in confequence of the Bill
exceeding the Aft of 1793. From that time forth
there was no other meeting as to that point than that
of the Minifters who were friendly to the meafure,
who affembled to deliberate upon the courfe bell to
be purfued refpeaing it. But they never In met as
a Cabinet, and the minutes of their proceedings
Served to (hew that. Of courfe no principle of ex-
elution Inch as that afcribed to himfelf and Come of
his colleagues, ever did exiit. Indeed no proceed-
ing was taken by thofe among his colleagues, who
affented to the propofed meafure, relative to the
Catholics, which was not made ',known to thofe
who diffented, and fully open to their examina-
tion. For the laft difpatch fent to Ireland, autho-
riling Mr. Elliot to give that anfwer to the Catholics
which had been objeaed to, L.,rd Grenville told one
of the diffentients (Lord Sidmouth) he might fee it
if he wished before it was fent off. There was, there-
fore, no concealment whatever from the King or any
of the Minifters. Sidmouth did himfelf com-
municate to his Majetly all the grounds upon which
he difapproved of the meafure. With refpea to the
motion before the Houle, he had no hefitation in till-
tinaly (lacing, that he would fupport it ; becauf,-.
among other reafons, he thought the prefent Mini ((CS
unworthy to hold their places—Hill, however, if they
fhould be able to retain them ; he would fay, that it
was not by any means his intention to give them any
vexatious or haraffing oppt.fition, although he would
of courfe feel it his duty to watch their condo& with
that conftitutional jealoufy which mutt be confider
ably heightened by theimpreffion upon his mind, that
they were totally undeferving of confidence.
Lraoi PERCY (tared, that he gave his full fopprot
to the original motion, but difapproved of tbe agita-
tion of the Catholic quellion.
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST ufed nearly the
fame arguments he had done in the lalt debate.—
He regretted the lots of fo many fuperiur talents : he
approved of the late Minifters in all their conduit,
except the laft ; for which be could not fupport
them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that the
prefent Minilters were the ocealion of dragging his Majefty's
name to the bar of that Houle. ft had been raid, that the dilmif-
lal of the late Minifters had been owing to fecret advifers ; but
the fair prefumption was, there were no feeret advifers, and it was
therefore incumbent on the late Minifters to prove the fad.
—One Right Honourable Gentleman bad laid, that the dif-
miffal had been the confequence of a long and dark intrigue.
If this were really the cafe, it was a very curious one; for this
damned fpirit mutt have aded with the moll unccmmon fehtlety,
and have landed itfelf fo secretly into the bofoms of his Majesty's
late Minifters, as to prevail with them to bring forward their late
Bill, and by that means draw on themfelves that lots of confidence
which had induced his Majefty to difmifs them from his Service.
It had been alfo Said, that the prefent Minifters were anfwerable
rot the ((reds of their own appointments. He denied this to be
true. When his Majefty found it need/my to diftnifs from his
Councils his late Servants, he mull then of eourfe chute a new fee ;
otherwife, the bulinels of the Executive Government mutt be at a
nand. His Majefty having made choice of them, it was their
duty to accept their Several appointments, and there might be made
by the Sovereign without any advice whatever, more than his own
molt gracious choice, and without any keret advifers, further than
thofe on whom his Majefty had laid his commands to form a new
Adrniniftration. The Right Hon. Gentleman then entered into a
vindication of his condudt on the Addrefs he had publifhed to his
Conftituents at Northampton, which he laid, he never meant as an
eledion fquib, nor did be intend it as a means of roufirg a fpirit
of religious animosity. but only to inform them candidly and
fairly of his reafons for having accepted the appointment with
which his Majesty had honoured him, and the opinion he had of
what might eventually be the cafe, if power was ever to be given to
the Catholics in Ireland. He did not mean to fay that the church
was at this moment adman/ in danger, but that fuch might here-
after be the cafe, if the Catholic claims were to be allowed to the
fulleft extent which had been aimed at. He infifted on it that the
late Minifters had, by their own condudt, proeared their own dif-
miffal, and tint his Majefty had found himfelf compelled to that
ft-p by their condudt, and had adopted it of his own Spontaneous
free will, without any feeret advifers to Stimulate him to the fame.
[flare was a lead and swoiverfal cry of " into,, peflion.'
Mr. WINDHAM laid, the Houle might reft affured, that at
that late hour, and in the exhautted Rate he then was, be would
not trouble them at any length. He asked who had been the
cattle of introducing the portentous and momentous phenomenon
into that Houfe of the name of the Sovereign, which had deftroyed
the very effenee of the freedom of debate. From the moment the
minutes had been given in a garbled form to the public, from that
instant his Majelly's late Minifters were compelled to alit permit.
firm to Rate the trsnfadtion fairly, in vindication of their own
charaders ; and to the publication of thole inmates was to be at-
tributed every thing which followed. He contended that the pre-
-1 fent Minifters were refponfible, by contenting to accept their litu-
ations, for it was evident that thereby they in a manner advifcd the
dihniffal of Minifters He entered his proteft againft the doc-
trines which the Haute had heard front the other fide, upon the
quelth at of relporffibility. If, indeed, there dodrines were to ob-
tain—if it were allowed that the King could exercife his preroga-
tive without an advifer in one cafe, fo be might in another. His
Majefty might make his vet, againft an Adt of both Houfes of the
Legiflature, and if he could do fo without a refponfibie advifer,
then, inftead of a balance of power in the Conititution, all the
power would be in the King; rot, combining the maxim that
" The King can do no wrong," with the dodtrine now attempted
to be eftabliked, that the King can ad without a refponfible ad.
viler, there would be an end of that controul of the Executive Au-
thority which the Coultitution intended—becaule the King could
not be perfonally arraigned, and beeaufe any Mt of the Executive
Power, (Welded by the pretence let up in this initance, that fuck
act proceeded from the individual will of the King, could not be
made the subject of accusation. But he deprecated loch doctrines,
as fubverfive of the heft principles of the Conftitation, and ridi-
culed the idea of letting up the old and exploded notions with re-
gard to any invafion of the Prerogative arifing out of. the expref-
lion of the Sentiment of that Houle, upon any exercise whatever of
that Prerogative.
The MASTER of the ROLLS was of opinion, that as that
Houk had no eonftitutional authority to inquire into the grounds
on which the Royal Prerogative was muffed in the inftance a hi-
ded to, the queflion timid not have been brought Forward to its
consideration; and that, therefore, it was not correct to have
granted permiffion to Lord Grenville and his Noble Colleague to
make the public explanations which had been fo often alluded to
In the debate.
Sir A. PIGOTT protefted againft the dodtrine of the Learned
Gentleman. He maintained the right of that Houfe to take cog-
nizance of Such Subjects, and quoted the cafes of Lords Danby and
Somers.

The Houle divided about fix o'clock, and the numbers were
For the Motion - 19$
Againft it - • 144

Majority 46
Adjourned at SIX O'CLoCIE in the Morning.