Star.
London, England, 1822-07-06 00:00:00

Prinethad pit somedlia
him, be ividsed to live
The SPEAKER k
be irregular. and one
prociva The Bill •

aussrA
Sir JAMES MACK ,gt wished _ _
ther any communication had been made to Govern-
ment respecting an Ukase issued by the Emperor of
Russia some time since, as to the dominion of a part
of the sea between the North West Coast of America
and the North East Coast of Asia ? This document,
as he understood, would materially interfere with the
commerce of British subjects ; and, as several ships
were now about to sail for that coast, he was desi-
rous of an answer.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, a com-
munication had been received by his Majesty's Go-
vernment from the Russian Government, of this Ukase,
and no time bad been suffered to elapse without com-
municating to the Russian Ambassador that this Go-
vernment must protest against both the principles of
dominion and of commerce laid down in that docu
ment, and at the same time making the claim of Rus-
sia a subject of negotiation and investigation.
- Sir J. MACKINTOSH said he had another ques-
don to put, relative to a report which had gone abroad
as to the seizure and condemnation of a British vessel
by the Spanish Government, on her passage to Buenos
Ayres, dn the pretence that she had been guilty of
a breach of the commercial regulations of the Spa-
nish Government?

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he had
no recollection of the circumstance alluded to by the
Hon. Gentleman. If the Hon. Gentleman would fur-
nish him with the name of the vessel in question,. he
would 'make inquiries.
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, it was a vessel called
the Lord Collingwood. He would, with permission
of the Noble Lord, for ward the proceedings of con-
demnation to him.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, if the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman would do so, he would
make inquiry.

DISTRESS IN IRELAND.
Mr. BERNAL adverted to the distress in Ireland,'
and hoped the House would not separate till some-
thing was done to remove that distress.
Mr. GOULBURN said, that the last accounts
from Ireland had been of an agreeable nature, and
that by the money already given to provide employ-
ment for the poor, much digress had been removed.
Mr. I). BROWN said, provisions had never been
cheaper than at present in Ireland, and he could not
see upon what principle provisions had been exported
to a country where they were so plentiful. He was
inclined to believe the distress had been exaggerated.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD was surprised at the lan-
guage of his Right Hon. Friend. The fact men-
tioned by him was a proof of the magnitude of the
distress, which prevailed to a great degree in the
neighbourhood .f his Right Hoe. Friend. The dis-
tress, in fact, extended to one quarter of Ireland. It
was from confidence in the assurances of Government
that he had not brought the state of Ireland before
the House.

Sir J. NEWPORT said, that though provisions
might exist, the wretched peasantry had not the means
of buying them.
Mr. VILLIERS bore testimony to the reality and
magnitude of the distress in Ireland.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT moved, that the House should
go into the Committee of Supply.
Lord BINNING moved, that the Petition from the
Subscribers to the National Monument in Scotland, be
referred to the same Committee. _

Mr. HUME objected to this reference.
Sir R. WILSON said, the Petition proceeded upon
an erroneous supposition, and could not be referred
to the Committee of Supply.
Mr. G. BENNET said, the Petitioners were rich
enough to build a monument for themselves.
Mr. H. GURNEY was adverse to grant public
money for building a miserable imitation of the Par-
thenon at Athens.
Mr. HUME stated, that he would divide the House.
Lord BINNING said, he would withdraw the mo-
tion, and bring it on in the next Committee of Supply.
On the motion being putt that the Speaker leave
the Chair,
Mr. WESTERN opposed the motion:as hehad.im-
portant Resolutions to propose to the House.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY would appeal
tb the Hon. Member if he could bring forward a sub-
ject of so mach importance without notice, and for
which both he (the Noble Lord) and the House were
wholly unprepared?
Mr. WESTERN stated that he had given notice
of his intention to submit his Resolutions last Wed-
nesday. In the event of there being no House, it was
but fair that the notices formerly siren should be
brought forward in the order in which they stood.
All he wanted was an early day.
After some observations on the part of different
Members, Tuesday was fixed for Mr. WUTZJIN'S Re-
solutions.--The House then went into the Committee.

~ -.

Mt. HUMlleitilitied thattie---Army Estraordi-
miss appeased this year in an improved shape. The
expesees for Cenada were $54,737J. The revenue of
Ceylon was 378.8121. The House had no cognizancell
of the revenues of the Colonies. The revenue of
Malta arnounted to 1130,d00Land that of the Cape rOl
1161$1001. :The whole of these revenues were admi.l.l
Wrested ‘by thelEing in Council. All these chore
should .be sabmitted anaisally to the House, an
placed to account. lie most mutest again*
manner in which bills were drawn from the Caen' :
and he intended to propOse the abolition of Colonin
Agents. The First Commissioner of Woods and Fri-
rests, as Agent for Ceylon, ,bad a salary of 12001.
and a Learned Gentleman (Mr. Courtenay) had 6001.
as Agent for the Cape. The duty might be discharged,
without any additional:expense, by the Commissariat.
The duty of the Agent was to send out such articles
as were required by the Colonial Government, and to
make such payments as were necessary, to be 'amide
in England. The Hon. Member then adverted to the
system in' the lonian Islands. The Treasurer, who;
had a revenue of 100,0001. to collect, had a salary of
7001. a year, and his assistant.lsol. The Agent for
those Colonies had a salary of 5001. a year. There
were eight Inspecting Officers of Militia, at salaries,
in the total, of 25751. though there wawa° militia to
inspect, as the islanders bad been disarmed. That sum
he proposed to reduce, as well as the salaries of the
Colonial Agents. In the first year of our possession of
the Cape, the salary of the Governor had been 11161:
while the salary now amounted to 10,0001. To one Se-
cretary was paid 35001. and to another 15001. and the
latter was in possession ofanother office. All this expense
was paid out of the pockets of the People of England.
The Auditor of 116,0001. had a salary of 10001. and
the Post Captain had 5004 a year. The accounts
were, in fact, as long as a tailor's bill--(4 laugh).—
He was confident two-thirds of the expense at the
Cape might be saved. The case was the same at the
IMauritius, where the revenue was 164,0001. which
ought, in time of peace, to defray the expense of the
colony. He could chew the loss of millions, from
Officers having been sent out to the colonies without
sufficient securities being taken. Re thought the Mi-
nister who had so acted, should be mulcted of his sa-
lary, till the loss was made good to the country.—
There was a Collector at 15001. a year, with 2i per
cent. on all he should collect • and he also had a De-
puty--(Haar). There had been: a great outcry, and
properly, about the salaries of a few clerks, while
such enormous extravagance was unnoticed. He un-
derstood that the collectorship ofiamaica,worth many
thousands a year, bad been given to a young man
who had never before been in office. At Gibraltar the
Civil Secretary to a Military Government hadlllool.
a year, and a pension besides, after eight years ser-
vice. The Earl of Chatham, the Governor, bad WOOL
a year; and General Don, the Lieutenant-Governor,
had an equal sum. The Judge Advocate had a salary
of 10001. a year. The expense of Sierra Leone was
60,0001. From the conclusion of the peace; till last
year, when a reduction took place, the expense of
Heligoland was from 10,0001. to 12,0001. a year.—.
The total expense of the Colonies to the British Go-
vernment was two millions and a half-4Heer).—
The Hon. Gentleman then requested the House to
follow him to Nova Scotia, and animadverted in a
similar manner on the expense of the Establishment
in that Colony. Demerara and Berbice might sup-
port the whole of their Military Establishments, if so
much expense had not been unnecessarily incurred
by the creation of Civil Officers. With proper re,
ductions, 500,0001. would suffice, instead of 700,0001.
as called for by the Right Hon. Gentleman. In a
future Session he should move that no grant be made
from the Army Extraordinaries, for permanent of-
,fices. He should like to know from the Chancellor
of the Exchequer how 9001. came to be charged for
managing a Dutch loan ? That sum had been paid
to a Mr. Atkinson, though the transaction might
have been managed without the smallest expense
through the channel of the British Ambassader. The
Hon. Member then went over the old ground of the
charge of 600/. and odd for the carriage of Sir Thos.
Maitland from the lonian Islands to Malta ; the
Riding Establishments of the Cavalry, the Barracks,
Staff Commissariats, /cc. icc. Scc. and urged again
the necessity of having a separate estimate for every
one of our establishments, civil and military, at home,
and for every one of our Islands and caber Colonies.
He reprobated the allowing Governors to levy taxes
at their pleasnie in the Colonies, which was contrary
to the spirit of the British Constitution. He then pro-
posed to reduce the Agent of the Cape 1:800; the
Agent for Malta £600; the Agent for Ceylon £1200;
the Agent for the Mauritius £5OO ; and the Agent
for the lonian Islands £5OO. He did this to see whe-
ther die House was disposed to go with him in the
work of reduction; and if he found it would not, it
would be useless to move any farther reductions.
Mr. BARHAM wished to know the Hon. Mem-
ber's meaning, as to the Government putting the Co.,
Monies an a more liberal footing; and then they were
willing to bear the expense of their. own establish.,
ments? He knew many Colonies that could not sup-
port any such expense.
Mr. HUME said, if the sums were not paid to un-
necessary or sinecure officers, the expenses of the co-
lonial troops might be paid by the Colonies themselves,
This he knew to be particularly the case with Trini•
dad, Demerara, and Barbie*. ..
Mr. WILMOT said, it was most unfair to consider,
the Colonies in a commercial sense only, without re.
ference to political value. Out of the 364,0001. at
the bottom of the Estimate, he could prove that the
Honourable Gentleman bad only made a mistaken
366,9001. a sum which we received from the Colima%
and which, of course, if we had not the Coloelea, Will
should not receive. The..HnO• Member ;KM
iota consideration the dearness of living iii Vat
reign Colonies, and that • tor the Agents there
was no half-pay. Sir T. Maitland bad made. nal
voyage in the lonian.islanis but with a legitimate
politic 4 object. He denied. tint the incrodkktion Of
the British conititudon Into most of the Cottages
would be advantigtoiss to ;hem. The ago.
manexclaimed against ate eipenshf Waded '
men in office, solflitiliPB li.ke a PerMlll".4ll4s4P
Waded

Estimates- would not be divided.
Mr. AILBIJTANOT complained 'drat Ole Chancel-
lor, of the Exchequer had been most grossly misre-
presented. The Right Hon. Gentleman ,wished. to
take as unfavourable a view or the Reteliee, ks
'moving his Budget,' as possible. keen, that fur-
ther reduction would be Made' netr.Session.
complaint of delay in bringing forward* these esti-
mates was unfair, for there tea mot beta, since the
Easter recess, a single Order night that he had suit
bonne dbwn prepared to open these Estimates, till it
last he began to think his paper;•box would find f.'s
vrty'ttii the House without him
ever small the number of troops in' Canada, that
stations was very great, and that required the Com-
missariat of that country to be snore extensive than
it would otherwise have been. • .
Colonel DAVIES said Government Made no 're-
duction until their conduct was exposed, and *wed
forward to public view.
Six R. WILSON objected to the pay of an Inspect*
of Militia in the lonian Islands ; for there is no Militia
there. By gainingthe lonian Islands, we got 09, of
the most expensive acquisitions that had ever bee:Rib-
tamped ; and, if we did not give up those Islands Mon
we should find them the sank of ' our wealth, and the
grave of our honour.
Mr. GOULBURN was ready to defend Sir T.
Maitland's character from all the slanders that could
be cast upon it.
Mr. IL G. BENNET should wish to know the full
extent of the duties and salaries of the Inspecting
Field Officers of Militia? He had no doubt that all
the Officers of our Colonies were much more paid
than their duty (if they did any at all) could deserve.
He complained that the system of abuse had goose
much farther in the Mauritius than in any,other of
our Colonies. He alluded to a person named Theo.;
dore Hook, who had (said Mr. Bennet) robbed the
Public to the amount of eight or 90001. He hoped to
see Canada given up, with all her expenses, for he
was sure it was not worth a single shot to save her.-
Mr. GOULBURN would never consent to hear
that a subject of Canada, or the rest of our Colonies,
was not worth a single shot in his defence. All were
entitled to our protection.
Mr. HUSKISSON opposed the reduction.
Mr. T. COURTNAY defended the office of Agent
to the Colony of Ceylon, which, he said, was an Office
of considerable importance.
After a few words from Mr. T. WILSON, Mr. W.
SMITH, Mr. A. C. GRANT, Mr. BROUGHAM, and Mr.
Hume, the Committee divided.—For the Amend-
ment, 56-... Against it, 82—Majority, 27.
The next Resolution was for 200,0001. for Extras of
the Civil List.

•Mr. BENNET said, this grant would cause con.
aiderable discussion, and should not be taken at so
late an hour.

Mr. HUME said, this would be the only opportue
pity be should have to propose cutting dowa the al.
lowances of our Ambassadors.

Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, he would postpone this
vote, and propose out for the out-pensioners of Green-
,wich.flospitaL
Mr. BENNET, that is quite as objectionable.
Mr.GOULBURN then proposed 296,4001. to rake
good the deficiencies-of 1821.—Agreed to.
119.000 for Bt. Destiny I- Bufferers, Toulon Emigrants,
Knights of Haim, for.
Colonel DAVIES said, the Bourbons, being now
restored, ought to provide for the emigrants. He
objected to the grant to General Dumourtes, and to
the Knights of Malta. He moved to reduce the grant
by the sum of 42391.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER d♦
fended the grant to the French Officers, and to the
Emigrants of Toulon, who had suffered for out ser-
vice, and not for that of the King of France. As to
General Dumouriez, that disttnguished•Officer had
no claim on the King of France ; he had been living
for many years under our hospitable protection, and
had attained the age of four-score years and upwards,
and be was convinced that he should not make an
appeal to British generosity in vahr, iu favour of this
aged veteran—(fear, hear).
Colonel DAVIES withdrew his amendment, and
the grant was agreed to.
xsooo for the Refuge for the Destitute. .
,22.5,000 were then moved for the Caledonian Canal.
Mr. HUME complained of this vote, on the ground
that when 40,9001. was formerly proposed, with a
statement that 15,0001. or 20,0001. more would be
required, he proposed 60,0001. at once. This sum
had -been voted now, end 25,000/. more were pro-
posed. If he was rightly informed, three times
25,0001. would yet be required.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
this sum would be sufficient to make the canal navi-
gable from sea to sea. Steam packets already traded
ween Inverness and Fort Augustui. The canal
would be of great service to the coasting trade. He
could not answer that parts of the canal might not
require further outlay.
Mr. BROUGHAM gave credit to Ministers fin
being as sick as they, upon his side were of the Cale-
donian Canal. Even the Right Hon. Gentleman most
admit, that all their extravagant outlay would htt/e
been thrown away, if not for the God-send of steam,
the application of which was discovered afterwards...-.
The vote was agreed to.
£15,000 for the Works el Roesehatlee Harbour.
6,000 fee Purtpaulek Harbour.
12,000 for Ibrbour.
1,000 foret= hailsto for improvensentain Wes/abut..
2,700 for the Bankrupts Commissioners' New Courts.
Mr. BROUGHAM could not fail here urging the
necessity of providing a temporary accommodation
fir the Court of King's Bench and the Lout t of Chan-
cery, within the range of Westminster Hall. No per-
son, not in the profession, could form any idea of the
inconvenience under which the Judges, Bar, an
euditers no* laboured. A few hundred pounds worth;
Poston d*old Courts in the Hall, till the sew Courts
were erected, which he hoped would be commenced
.
r. .
ITHlNcluxolt or the EXCHEQUER odd
I •
=Wile od the subject, sad lt bad been
the 04 routs. 2!40!4 Fern rewOrds MiKti. ,ifir
.ine,
cuanuotbov(everonaktripertfuarthriogrosesor latid,rlAl...d. • a
obuisaa_ 2sisva.
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at
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*dim 4 the *Aped qtgation4l2l6lo4lo44.
__,Mpm.edtlie should not enter iato 1114 ' tiat at Steam% who wet shout escialming.• that
,e hliii an —:(sir, 'brn,', lik . the aciount wii "°e the' bilnew a igen who would do lathe bass Oral 4-
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pronounced the converts: ilea •to Vonliaitutit; but be should be happy to answer out Chancellor otthe Exchequer for half a guinea li week.
se which could not be adlowad to question, Auld to en, any explanmson necessary for Ile was authorized to say, that security was to %ire-
was then' read a second time. the.satisfaction of Commttme. The light Hon. quired from every one of the_Colpnial Officers. He
11111111A11 MAUL Kantor cotialudej 'by moving a Reaahr' a109,6w was not prepared to say, that in a future Session all
:lEINTOSH 'wished to know whew hr 004004 fut.& Army EttraoyZinariez. - .. ' '_., the different Estimates would not be divided.
_ •__ ._ _ 1 I_ - _1 - /1-__- Sl_ 111TWIL•Puft . - _ _ -

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