Star.
London, England, 1805-04-05 00:00:00

STANDING 011DIRS.

Lord MULGRAVE was on his legs (when aran-
Fere were readmitted) for the purple of withdrast -
tog. for the prefent, the notice he had given on Tuef-
day, of a motion for expunging one of their Lord-
fhips' orders. This produced a fhort converfation
between the Marquis of Sligo, Lords Fitzwilliam
and Grenville, and the Chancellor, which terminated
by the motion being acceded to.
On the Order of the Day for the fecond reading of
the Bill, for allowing the purchafe of Advowfons by
the two Univerfities,
Lord HAW KESBURY wilhed, that as the Bill
involved a quellion of confiderable delicacy, the
Learned Prelate who propofed it, would confent, in
order to allow time for further deliberation, to poll-
pone the fccond reading until the 26th of April.
The Bufhop of OXFORD had no objettion to en-
ter upon the difkutßon of the principle of the Bill at
any time it fhould feem proper to their Lordfhips.—
He had reafon to believe, that he fhould be able
to prove to their Lordihips, that it WAS a meafure
extremely neceirary, and unattended with any of the
difadvatages which were apprehended as likely to
refult from it.

Lord GRENVILLE profeAd himfelf friendly to
the fyllem of mixed church patronage, and thought
the Bill one very proper to be fubmitted to the judg-
ment of the Houfe.

The EArl of SUFFOLK wifhed to embrace that
opportunity of pteferring his claim to endeavour to
draw the attention of the Houle, when that Bill fhould
come to be difcuffed, to the iniferable fituation of
that deferving dais of men, the Curates. He had
received many letters on that fubjed, which he would
communicate to their Lordlbips on that occafion,
without, however, divulging the names of thole by
whom they were written ; and it was not improbable
but he would receive many more. Indeed, he would
acknowledge, that he intended the obfervation he
made as a kind of alueriyinsent to all the fufferers of
that cl ifs to addrefs him on the fubjed of the grie-
vances they laboured under.
Lord Hawcasautty's propofltion was agreed to.

. .
A (bort converfation took place between Lords
DARNLEY and MELVILLE, refpeaing the praltice of
the Houle on a queaion of order, arifing out of a mo-
tion made by the fira noble Lord, for certain Nav'al
Papers,

MILITIA DILL.

The order of the day for the fecond reading of
the Militia Bill being read,
Lord HAW K ES BURY entered upon the detail of
all-the meathres of defence which had preceded the
prefent Bill. The neceflity of a large difpofable force
had been admitted on all fides of the Houfe, and
there was no readier, no leis burthenfome, or no lefs
expenfive mode of procuring it, than that fuggelled
in the Bill before their Lordlbips. The gradual re-
duaion of the Militia Eltablititment from 6o to
40,000 men had been acceded to by their Lordfhips,
in the laft Setlinn, and he could forefee no inconveni-
ence in haftening the operation of that principle ;
Ili. Lordfhip concluded with moving that the Bill be
read a fecond time.
The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM oppofed the
mt•tion. The principle of the Bill was heither
more nor lea than the meditated deflruaion of the
Militia ; that truly conliituttonal force was to be
annihilated, for the purpofe of creating an uncoil-
Ritutional force at its ezpence ; for fuck, he would
contend, a permanent ft,rnding army to he. upon all
thofe views which our fathers were wont to have on
that fubjea.
The Earl of DERBY, in a long and animated
fpeech, opp fed the Bill. His Lordlbip alluded to
the recent tranfattions in the Weil Indies, and con.
trailed the inefficiency of the prefent Government
with the mighty promifes they held forth eight
months ago.
The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE replied to
the objections of the lall Speaker. and defended the
policy of the meafure, agaiva which, be maintained,

no eonaitutionat argument whatever could be urged.
He requefted the Noble Earl .vonld fufpend, for a
(hort time, his cenfure of the Government, refpeCt-
ing what he fuppofed to have taken place in the
Weft Indies. He had every reafon to fuppofe, that
long before this the hoftile fquadron had been op-
poled in thofe Peas by a force fully competent to
contend with it. He alfo begged leave to affure the
Noble .Earl, in anfwer to another point of accufa•
lion, that the military force in that quarter was not
fo inconfiderable as he conceived it to be. Govern.
ment was aware of the poßibility of Come attempt,
and had taken fufficieat care to he provided againft
the contingency. He paid Tome warm compliments to
the Noble Earl for his conduCt as Lord Lieutenant
of a county, in which capacity, although Admini-
Rration had not the fatisfaftion of his fupport in that
Houle, he did every thing poffible to promote all
thofe meafures which they employed for the benefit
of the public fervice.
Earls DERBY and BUCKINGHAMSHIRE fe-
verally explained.
Lord BORINGDON expreffed his apprehenfion,
that the Bill would not produce that efficient force
which the framers of it fo fanguinely expelled. He
was, however, a friend to the principle of increafing
the difpofable force, and would, therefore, give his
concurrence to the Bill.

Lord CAWDOR was fully convinced, that the
meafure was impolitic and unfeafonable. The late
conduit of Adminiliration had greatly tended to
diforganife the Militia, and what was now propofed,
might, in the event, produce its utter fubverfion.—
He had had Come opportunity of teeing the evil con-
fequences of deranging the fyflem with regard to
this conftitutional force. In the rear 1799, the regi7
ment he had the honour to command, volunteered
for Ireland. When it arrived at Portfmouth, he had
the mortification to fee twenty men in irons convey
ed to the weflern ifland, to fupprefs rebellion, and to
fupport the rights of the Britifh Monarchy. Snch
was the immediate demand for that fervice, that
even this was con(idered difcreet, and after filch a
ttanfallion, it may be easily conceived what would be
the indecency and irregularity permitted and encou-
raged in his own, and its other Militia Regiments, in
order to induce them to embark in that expedition.
—He law the difadvantage of the repetition of fuck
conduit fo firongly, that he wrote to a Noble Lord in
office, to learn, if it was the intention of Government
to revive thefe diforders. He received for aufwer, that
officially, no reply could be expelled, but that from
motives of perfonalfriendfhip and refpell to him ( Lord
Cawdor), he might affert, that no fuch intention el-
ided in his Majelly's Government. That Noble
Lord had (ince formed an alliance with other col-
leagues, and he might perhaps fay, that he had mar-
ried, and that he was no longer at liberty to aft
with pedal independence. This might he fatisfac-
tory to him, but it would not be fo to other Noble
Lords, who felt themfelves aggrieved and injured by
this recantation.

The Earl of WEST WORELAND laid, objections
were made both to the principle of the Bill Well, and
to the time when it was produced. The &It objec-
tion was grounded on Come fuppofition, that the mea-
fure was unconftitutional. It was true, that the term
conftitutional was applied with confiderable latitude,
according to the opinions Noble Lords entertained of
public meafures. By the ftatute so Gen. 11. the mi.
litia was to ferve three years, and then was to be per-
mitted to enter into the army, or engage in any other
occupation. What then could there be unconftitu-
tional fo dire my oppofed to the feelings of Noble
Lords, as friends to the &kith Monarchy, if, after a
period of two years they had the fame privilege they
would enjoy at the termination of three years? Much
had been ()Nailed on the ground of parochial ex-
pence ; but on a fair calculation, by this Bill little or I
no difference would be occafioned in that refpeet ;
what was thrown upon the parithes in the way of bal-
lot, would be counterpoifed by the relief given in
refpeCt to the families of 17,000 men, who would'
no longer receive the fame fupport. It had been
Paid, that the Officers of the Militia almolt uni.
verfally were diffatisfied with the meafuire ; and
the decifion at a meeting of thirty-two Officers at
St. Alban's, had been conceived to be the general
expreffion of the opinions of five hundred Officers,
who compofed that refpeaablt Body. This Ilite-
ment was wholly incorre&—no general conclufions
could be drawn from fuch a circumftance ; many
officers had already expreffed their concurrence, and
it might be more prudent if fome others, intparticu-
lar fituations, would not be tufty in proclaiming their
difapprobation.
Lord CARNARVON laid, the only argument
for the meafure was neceffity ; and we were told, that
in cafes of neceffity we Mould dirpenfe with, not
only all maxims of.law, all principles of policy, but
all notions of common honefty. lie would contend.
that by this meafure the law of the country would be
violated, the policy of pall times would be abandoned,
and public faith and integrity would be furrendered,
and he would be bold to afFert, that no necellhy ex-
Med to vindicate there aggrellions. The Noble Lord
who fpoke lag, had thrown out a threat, that if per-
tons in office refitted this meafure, they might find
they had to lament the confequences of their own in-
diferetion. This menace was not confillent with that
decorum fitly prefetved in that Houfe.
Lord WESTMORELAND faid, the Noble Lord
had entitely mifunderitood his meaning.
Lead CARNARVON certainly contirued in that
way the expreffions of the Noble Lord, add had he
been correct in that conftruaion, he might fairly
have concluded that the Noble Lord, who held an
office under his Majefty's Government judged of the
opinions of others by his own notions of political
difcretinn.
The Duke of MONTROSE felt the objections to
the Bill, and was difpofed to refpee, not only the
feelings, but even the prejudices of Militia Officers.
It had been juttly argued that it was a meafure of
neceffity, and on that ground he was inclined to Cup-
port it. Whatever objections might now be made by
Noble Lords in the Militia fervice, he had no doubt,
if it became the law of Parliament, they would be
difpnfed to carry it into execution under citcum-
(lances moll advantageous to the country.
Lord SUFFOLK, both in the Regulars, and in
the Militia, had frequently feen the ferious mifchief
atifing from irregularity and diforganization. Thofe
who had feen the troops embark for Holland might,
without the gift of prophecy, have anticipated the
event of that difgraceful expedition. The troops in

Egypt, which did fo much honour to the country, i
were trained by a molt able and illuftrious officer,
now Commander in Chief in Scotland, and by ann
Cher of extraordinary merit (Sir Charles Stewart),
of whole fervices the country had
.been deprived by
death. This was not a titre, when meafures propo-
fed by Minilters could be received with much confi-
dence ;—the misfortunes in the Eall Indies were
known, and new calamities awaited us in the Weft,
in confequence of the efcape of the Rochefort fqua-
dron, which might be attributed, juflly, perhaps to
the deficient vigilance of the Noble Lord at the head
of the Admiralty. We fhould not have had to la-
ment fuch a mifchance, if the gallant and illuftrious
Officer, who fo lately filled that dignified fituation,
had Hill exerted his talents, for the protection and
glory of the Britifh Navy.
Lord CAMDEN laid, the augmentation of the
army was uniformly admitted as a necefrary meafitra
and the leaft inconvenient way of effetling this, was
by the reduCtion of the Militia. . _

•
Lord ROMNEY conceived it to be deftru&ive to
the fyftem of the Militia, and jultified by no principle
either of temporary expediency, or general policy.
Lord CARLISLE Paid, Minillers had wholly fail-
ed in their former fchemes, and this was equally non•
fenfical with the-preceding, and would give way to
new projerlis equally ineffectual. Minifters would
not deltroy the Militia, becaufe they dared not, but
they were determined to melt it down, or fritter it
away by every contrivance to which they could
retort.

The queftion was then put, when there appeared,
Contents 6a Non-Contents 35
Proxies 40 Proxies 19
--sox *-54
_ _

Majority for the Bill, 48
Adjourned at It o'clock.