Star.
London, England, 1813-02-27 00:00:00

self;

to be paced iiiiinv'an etintAl to rights,
would-be soon heartily united, and then the Govev.
ment need not go to foreign Countries-4i the Ger-
mans or Portuguese to recruit • its armies. It would
tii) longer be necessary to continue that disgraceful
system, which tears men from their homes, their fami-
lies, and all they hold dear in the world, and
.places
them in situations,whence many of them never return;
the system of impressment might then easily be got,
rid.o altogether., He would tell the House how that,i
could be done, if the Government could be bruught;
to act towards Ireland in a spirit of yonciliation and'i
kindness. They
.shoulit begin by a general enroll-
ment of all the children from their birth, to which
the people would cheerfully submit. Schools should
shtal be established in the parishis, ih the hundredssl
and in the counties, from which a certain number of
boys might reLularly be taken, which would be :Aft
ficient •to• provide in time an ample supply of men:
for the army and navy. The most, complete igrso
rance prevailed in-this country respecting Ireland.—
He'had hinieelf raised-two regiments there, and knew
sell the.mattial spirit 9t the people, and the ardour
with which they would press into the service,' if
riot checJced• bf the.operation of civil disabilities.—
The effect of the System which had been pursued,
might be judged of by the change which has been
effected within nine months, in consequence of which,
pet suns who before lived in the interchange of officps
of mutual hospitality, now passed each other by
as strangers. Few recruits were obtained for the
army, except fr. m the militia. The people besame
d
more enlightened by acquiring knowledge, ancon-
sequently, the more sensible of their degraded state,
which prevented them from enlisting. A great deal
had been said as to the violence of the speeches of
the advocates of the Catholics; and an Honourable
Member (Mr. Ban kes) had assigned that as a reason
for voting against the motion. He might allow that
these advocates had been intemperate, and might be-
come factious and dangerous ; • but what was the re-
medy-Lto withdraw the tools by redressing the griev
ances of five millions of people ? Then they would
be happy and content. But he would not agree that
the Catholic board of advocates had been culpably
violent, though they might have been intemperate,
they had not been unconstitutional. "The agents of
the castle had been watching them like vultures ready
to pounce upon their prey, and yet theyhad not been
able to fix uptliany thing unconstitutional: They had
petitioned tliat House in decorous and temperate law;
guage. He contended that what the Catholics
claimed was their right, and be had recommended
to the Catholics of Tipperary not to petition for it as
a boon, but to demand it as a right, though without
effect. The. Hon. General then proceeded to establish
the ground-of the right, by strewing that the Cathcail
lies were entitled to what they sought under the con-,
ditions of the capitulation of Limerick, and that the
violation of 'these conditions was an act of perfidy on
the part of the British nation ; and concluded by as-
serting, that the Catholics were entitled to the unre-
stricted, unqualified, and unrestrained possession of
the rights they sought, for which reason he should
vote for the motion, as essential to the happiness of
Ireland, to the stability of the Empire, and to the
maintenance of its rank as a great nation,in the corn-
thunity of European States.
• • *is— RIME COOTE would not trespass-pet the
time of the Hour by dilating on a question in its
more general bearings, so much better understood by
many persons in the House than-he pretended to Un-
derstand it ; but in the capacity of a military man,
he could not forbear offering a few observations on,
'it, as it was connected with military affairs. He
could mit conceive from any thing with which his
experience had made-him acquainted, that there was
any danger in admitting the Catholics to stations of
rank and command in the army ; their loyalty was
known ; the proofs of it were innumerable ; and from
them be would select a few prominent features suffi
cient in themselves to do away. any. jealousy that
might be felt with respect to their views and wishes.
He recollected, when in the year 1793, the expedition
sailed from Ireland for the West Indies, which win
commanded by that skilful and gallant Officer Sir
Charles Grey, than whom no man ever deserved,
better of his country—a man, who was equally emi-
nent in the field and the Cabinet—that Officer had
uniformly praised the conduct of the Irish troops,
which formed a considerable part of his force, and
.had attributed principally to their valour the impor-
tant conquests he had effected ; now two-thirds rfl
these Irish soldiers were Catholics.—(Hcar,hear,hear.)
A number of Irish Catholics also served in Egyia
under Generals Sir Ralph Abercromby and Lord
Hutchinson, and most materially cou:ributed to the
mpc rtant successes which had been gained there :
they had fought in. numbers, and with their wonted
gallantry in Holland, and were now fighting in the
Peninstih.--(frear.)—When he locked, then, at the
devoted zeal with which these people w..re ever {eddy
tat shed their blood in defence.of their country, or for'
the ingmentation of her glory, he did not feel him-'
'self juseilkd is voting against a Committee which
was to inquire, whether that country could with safety
confer on them* reward they had toiled so arduously
to o'%.aip ? He wished them to obtain every privilege
which... Could with safety be granted the, and nothing
• more and he wished the conduct of the Legislature,
and e Government, towards them to be on all occa-
sions flitch as would, by. liberality on the one part,.
beg47c-pnlidence on the other.
SIiNICHOLAS
,COi.THURST thought that,'
as the • late Parliament . had dome to a vote for a 1
Committee to inquire. respecting securities, guarded,
by virh{ch the Catholic claims may be acquiesced in,,
;
they givenae :kind of pledge that their successors
would not refuse to tread in their steps, if the rea-
sons which.bactregulated their conduct should con-
tinue in full force. He was of opinion that the con-
duct'of the Catholics and their advocates out of doors
should not have any irffluesce on. the deliberations or
decisions of either House of Parliament. They should
endeavour to ascertain, by detailed and minute in-
quiry, whether any, and what nieisure of relief could
be afforded them from the grievances of which they
complained ; and then, on coming to a decision, in-
form them upon what groupds it was founded ; and
such a proceeding would be found to have weight
and authority, even with the body whose interests it
might eventually hurt. He conceived that consider
ration, which was all the present motion went to, and
uecisicin,, were things altogether distinct ; and by,
voting for the former?, be by. AO means pledged him,l

at entute

.pstatasergioltllidlitt an whit- ;It'At leeits;g the Catfu;licsthattireyh7d vet pro•
seeztaltparoisinekasevei 4uted. eff..ted, aoy seal:itie;„ It w..e his. most
qr istAtt-piojcoiTtson cotinecta sr-subject Anxious wish that while-they conceded to the Cetho.
•should be submitted to the. Houle. Jictthat which justice demanded, they should prea
Mr. HART DAVIS said he would not only vote • erve, nnimpaited, the Church establishment, in all
against the Committee, but he would* on all future its,sanctity,. and In all its splendour. The official si-
occasions, vote against any s;milat Measure that tuation which he kid the honour to hold, rendered
might be proposed, unless coupled with securities for it incumbent on him not to give a silent vote on this
the preservation of the constitution and the established occasiop ;. but for that consideration he should have
religion, notonly offered, but accepted* He coneeived abstained from p4rticipating in the discussion. U,ider
that carrying the present question in the affii moire any circumstances, however, whether in office or nut of
would have altogether adifferent effect from what was• office, or whatever has been his political connexions,
expected by its supporters; it would aggravate: the he should have felt it his paramount duty to v.uesfor
feelings, the asperity of which it was meant to soften. concession to the Catholics under these restrictiontto
Another reason why he would give a negative vote which he had already alluded. A great deal had
, was, the hostile spirit which had been evinced by been said about the tone which the Catholics had re.
the Catholics, both in.• their writings and their cently assumed. That tone carried its punishment .
speeches : they had snanifested a most resolutely- along with it ; for it had been urged on all occasions
;hostile spirit, and created so much alarm in the minds as one of the strongest arguments against eutucenion.
of the'sProtestant part of the sr mmurii'y, that he , But, as had been justly observed by the Right Hon.
should not be at all surprised if concession their . Mover of the proposition before the House, they
avowed enemies would have the effect of readerink arieielsot to consider the temper of troy body of men.
them not only discontented,..l•ut disloyal, both in Eng- They were to do justice. That the Catholicsltad been
land and Ireland. No one whcl observed the nume- intemperate—that same of them had heel presump-
rous. Petitions preferred by those people, with which tuous—that they had tried to interfere with
.things
the table was crowded, could conceive that such an which ought to have been held by them most sacred
apprehension was unreasonable. The Honourable —that they had proscribed, in a m.ouscr not to be
Member concluded by asserting,' that it was not tole- borne, those who differed from them in ~pinion, it was
ration, but political power, ahat the Catholics were impossible to deny. But was it forPailiament to visit
seeking. - the transgressions of certain individuals on the whole •
Sir JOHN STUA RT reprobated the tone of Ge- Catholic Body ? Already had that Body sustained
neral Mathew's speeCh, contrasting it with the mode- considerable iiajur y from the conduct of some ..t their
rate though able one which had been delivered by members ; for it was evident that there was a ;outer
his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Plunkett) and the disposition on the part of the Protestants of Ireland
object of which was, to bring the Catholics within towards the Catholic Claims than existed in former
the pale of the Constitution, he mostanxiously wished years. If he were asked what securities he would pro.
could be attained. He wished he could see the Ca- pose to accompany concession ?he wou'Ll reply, that
tholics and Protestants of his native country united would be a fit subject for discussion i. the Committee.
in the closest bonds of amity. It was peculiarly nn- The principal security, and that ought to make a .
fortunate that any cause of disunion should subsist part luf, if not he the prelude of concession, s'sould be
between them, for no Lind existed', the inhabitants of al arrangement ss ith the Catholic Church. Such as
which were better adapted by the kindly affections of arrange's-lent he meant as that Church might justly
the heart, to mingle like brothers done family. His be expected to accede Si; for nothing would be more
Right Hon. rriend had spoken as if he was autho- base than to affect to give the Catholics privileges on
rised to state, that securities for the preservation of terms which their religion would forbid diem to accept.
the Constitution and the national religion would be It might fairly berequired of the Cithuhes to hold
agreed to by the Catholics. Most happy would he be no foreign intercourse, to admit no foreign iuthience,-
il they did agree to such conditions, to see them relieved to allow no correspondence with Rome which even a
from the influence of all thosegalling restrictions under Catholic Sovereign would not tolerate. A Protestant
which they laboured ; but he much feared that his Mon trch and a Protestant Parliament could not justly
Right Honourable Friend had spoken rather from his be expected to accord that to the Cathuli -- which
wishes than his knowledge, and that it would be found a Catholic Prince was found not
a matter of greater difficulty than he imagined to cord to them. But the greatest
bring the Catholics and their Priests under the Con.; could be obtained would be by cot
stitution. The 'Honourable Baronet then entered into tholic Church, by their interest, by
a defence of the people called Orange-men, and their ; their pride, by their passions, to time
principles, and concluded it. with an assertion that this would be best accompli.hed by
they would never desist from drinking the glorious to the Catholic Clergy, or by other
memory of the monarch who had procured for them favour, it was net for him then to e:
the blessings of civil and religious liberty, so long as —But he was sure, if the House w
a glass of wine was to be found in Ireland. He ad- into a Committee, that in that C.
mitred that the Penal Code in ifs primitive severity means would be suggested of effect
was a savage code, but contended that in its actual desirable. Adverting to the speech
state, it was perfectly reconcileable with the soundest evening by an Honourable Gentleman
principles of 'justice—fur that it withheld from the he said that it was not for him to qt
Catholics nothing they could wish for but political nourable Gentleman% consistency.
power, and that time Government of every State had Honourable Qentleman had so qu
a right to withhold from any portion of their subjects this subject ooh A former occasion as ,
so long as• they c-nceived that .it could not be im- the vote which hehad declared
.it td
parted without endangeting the State. to give 'en the present occasion. 131
Mr. WARD argued in favour of the motion, con- of the last Parliament who had not
tending that the petitions preferred by the ?rotes- votes, would not be warranted in ft
tants could not be considered as proof that they nourable Gentleman's example.
wished a continuance of the penal code ; but on the ; had he even been staggered in the
contrary, should be taken as a proof of she reverse, entertained last year, yet, having a;
far they only prayed that the restrictions should not last Parliament pledged himself to
be removed without securities being given for the ; tholic claims, he should not think
preservation of the Church and State—a sort of prayer , want of the dissolution, released Prot
which involved in it a facit admission, that, if such The present Parliament certainly was
securities were given, emancipation was admissible. ; the consideration as a Parliament; '
Mr. W. FITZG ERA LD declared, that on a of it who were Memb:rs of the list
question such as that before the Home, involving in who voted for the Resolution mo!
a interests of the utmost magnitude and importance, Honourable Gentleman near him
he should be a traitor to his country, if he deemed were, in his opinion, unequivocal(
himself bound to respect any opinion in preference consideration. It was not, bower
to his sense of public duty. Happily there was no' pledge that he should 'vote for the
temptation to any such dereliction. Happily the sub- because be was thoroughly persuaded
ject came under the unbiassed consideration of Par-. ciliatory adjustment of the Catholic
liament. His sentiments on the question entirely co- ! dispensable to the prosperity and
incided With those which had bee' so ably expressed of the empire.
en the preceding evening by a Right Hon. Friend of ! Mr. PROTHEROE spoke against
his (Mr. Plunkett,) and here, as a Member of Parlia- principally dwelling on the intemperance
ment, he must congratulate the House on such an by the Catholic Committee, the michanis'
accession to their deliberative meetings—as an Irish- of the Catholic Church, and the failure
man, he must congratulate his country on the display tempt to spew what would be a
of talent mhich had been witnessed in the person of to the Protestant establishment against
his Right Hon. Friend. He repeated his satisfaction croechment.
that every man, en this great public question, was Sir F. FLOOD wished to speak on
left at liberty to form and to express his own judg- question. He wished to call to the
merit. It was not a subject affecting any party feel- what the last Parliament had done
ing, and be trusted that the object in view would con- that Parliament, almost at its dyi
sequently be obtained.—The Right Hon. Barons, made a will in favour of the Roman
who had spoken on the other side, had drawn a pic- land, which was signed by two hut'
ture of Ircland,.which he (Mr. F.) thought would seven persons, and attested by one _
have been the prelude to voting for the Committee ; individuals—(laughter)—rind he therefore
and he confessed that he did not recollect to have hoped, that neither the Parliament
heard any thing more inconsequential than the con- Doctor (Dr. Dui an, the Judge
clasion to which' that Hon. Baronet had arrived.— Court in Ireland)" seould refuse to
At the same time he freely confessed, that he could that will.—( Continua laughter.)--F
agree to all the opinions of an Hon. General op- honour ana liberality of Parliainen
posite. He did lament the mistake that had bound as to convince it of the justice of c.
the Catholics to Kieg James ; although he could not cution that will—for it was the solemn-sr
see the justice of referring to the transactions of the last Parliament, •and the last Parliament •
last century, or of invoking the manes of the Irish more! He would not anticipate an)
Parliament of that period, in order to terrify the the Learned Doctor, for that learned
United Parliament of the present period from doing that the interests of the people of thr
an act of great public justice. The Hon. Baronet were so identified with the mterests
had asked, with whom Parliament would treat or Establishment that nothing could
negotiate ? He (Mr. F.) replied, that he would nei-- concession to the Catholics ; there
titer treat nor negotiate with any. It would not be for restrictive measures. He now q
suitable to the character of Parliament to treat or ned Doctor's oxen works —he quoted
negotiate. If Parliament determined on considera- Belinburg4 Review !—(Afuch lase
tion, and if concession should follow concession, it " Question.") He wished to give.
would be the duty of Parliament to prescribe the possible information on the subject ,
terms on which that concession should be granted, fore hoped that they would hear him.
It was not for Parliament to treat with the Catholic; lice deserved their protection, for
as with an independent Power ; he begged, there. soldiers in the world ; he did nu
fore, to be understood, that in voting for the House he was an Irishman, but because
to go into a Committee, he did not bind himself to , They were somewhat toe anxious
support any specific measure. But he would not he. but they were brave and loyal men
sitate to express his anxiety that stmemeasure should t that could be trusted both at land
be adopted whichmight finally settle this great ques. , men had any errors at all, they
ition in a satisfactory manner, and he would not he- ! own country only ; take them out.
'sitate to. declare, that it was for the Committee to med the best body of men in the wog
determine cm she securities to the Protestant Church, lay:hien) Surely the House could

nE coma not justiy
Catholics -which
t disposed to ac-
est security that
mnecting the Ca. I
their feelings,.bk
State. ‘Thether
gra.sting stipends i
er acts or grace or •
express an opinion. i
would agreetogo ,
Zunitnittee ample
ecting an object so 1
n made yesterday 'I
min (Mr.Bankes), /
question that Ho-
. No doubt that t
talified his vote on
s to justify him in
vi be his intention
lut those Minters i
a so qualifieiktheir
following the Ho. i
For his owe part, ,"
e opinion-which he
is a Member of the r
:o consider the Ca-
k himself, by the
tt,
•om that pledge.—
was not pledged to i
; bay the Members 1
t Parliament and
noved
.by a Right
a (Mr. Canning),
lly pledged to that
vcr, to redeem his
to Committee, but
ded that the coo-
lie Claims was in.
I even to the safety
;ainst the motion,'
serance manifested
:hang lug character
allure of every ft.
sufficient security
gainst Catholic en.
on this momenta*: I
mind of the House
fur the Catholics :
ying moment, had
in Catholics of Ire.
andred and thirty-
e bandied and .silt
serefure confidently
it nor the Learned
' of the Prerogative
I grant a AreLatr to I
lle trusted that the
;nt would be suds
carrying into axe
soletnn-will of the
ament was now no
any otiection from
lied than had said, i
the B itish Em's',
ts of the Protestan
Id be feared front
e was no occasion
r quoted the Lear
led Nu. 35 of the'
;Ater, and ealto- •
ve the House •
ect 1 and he th
him. The Cath. i
they were the be .i
not say so becau -•
e they mere so I
in battle, perhaps
n for all that—me
I and sea. It Irish
had them in thei
t of it, and they foi
world! (Ma, .
mid •not :Air .I.