Star.
London, England, 1801-06-16 00:00:00

ling it in the

Bill's being

Noble and
Learned Friend mull be aware that precifely the
fame language was to be met with in various Ails
of Parliament. While beheld the office of Attor-
ney and Solicitor General, it had frequently fallen
to his lot to draw feveral ACts of Parliament,
and though upon feveral occafions he fhould have
liked to have ekprelred the Claufes in words of his
own, be had always thought it belt to copy the old
phntfes of former Afts, becaufe they clearly con-
tained the language of the Legiflature—language
to which Parliament was aceuftomed. He referred
to the cafe of Mr. Rufhworth, in 1785, and laid,
lie knew the ground on which the Committee went,
and the cafe they had in their view, in forming their
decifion, but he had no doubt in his own mind,that
the olccifion was errtintous. Indeed, be bad him-
fell often lamented that the Hoofs of Commons
had ever delegated their funiftions in refpea to the
trial of Elation Petitions, even though to a Com-
mittee of their own Members.
He was aware that feveral of the former deci-
fions of the Houfe had been thought wrong, and
had been complained of, although the Committee
appointed afterwards to bold all eleflion cafes ez-
clutively under their own jurifdiClion, had fince
decided feveral cafes on the very fame rounds and
principles. With regard to the ineligibility of
Priells, or Perfons in Orders, to fit in Parliament,
it was held in the language of the keelefiaftical
Canons to be eraftly like marriage, which (though
not a facrationt, any more than being in Orders
was a feertunent,) was fonsething more than a
mere civil contra& ; it had a religious nature in it,
and was an inflitution of Goo hunfelf. The in-
eligibility of a perfon in Orders to fit ill Parlia-
went, and the indifolubility of marriage, flood
precifely en the fame eternal footiogg, notwithftand.
mg the liberality of that Houfe rePeding Divor-
ces. That it was generally fo held by lawyers and
all ranks of able men, was clearly afcertained by
an anecdote which took place on the Middlefex
eleetion about thirty years ago, but the relation
of which would better perhaps, his Lordfhip Paid,
Came from any other mouth than his. The anec-
dote was this : Mr. Blackftone (afterwards Mr.
Juftice Blackftone) (peaking of the ineligibility of
Mr. Wilkes, in a pamphlet written by him upon
the fubjelt, to prove that Col. Luttrell was duly
cheer', even though he had the fewelt numbers
upon the poll : fuppofe that another Dr. Sache-
verell were to have been the opponent of Mr. Lut-
trell as a Candidate for Middlefer, and the Dr.
Sacheverell had the moll votes, !till Mr. Luttrell
would have been (rated, the Dr. Sacheverell being
ineligible, becaufe known to he in Orders. In
anfwer to this, juniur, a celebrated political writer,
though not a lawyer, (for politicians did not like
to be confidered as lawyers,) raid there was no
comparifon in the cafe, becaufe Dr. Sacheverell
was in Orders, and it was known that, according
to the Common Law and all Parliamentary Ufage,
perfons in Orders were ineligible to Seats in Par-
liament. His Lordfhip purfued the fubjeit with
great ability much further, and, after a great dif-
play of profound learning, concluded with declar-
ing emphatically that he flsould vote for the Bill,
becaufe he was convinced it was not a Bill of Jul.
franchifement, and that perfons in Orders were,
according to the Common Law, ineligible to a
Seat in the Houk of Commons.
The Earl of Motaa, after complimenting the
Noble and Learned Lord for his elaborate fpeech,
kid, that in his mind, a mere doubt being enter-
tained as to the erifling law of dle land, on this
fubjed, was no fuflicient reafon for a legiflative
enalment which would go to deprive 'a large and
refpeEtable body in the community of their rights.
If doubts were fufficient in fuch a cafe, he would I
only fay it was a good thing if no one raifeddoubts
refpeding the rights which their Lordfhips held to
their elates. The Clergy had their rights, and
tbefe could only be impeached by a diftinft Sta.
ttite. Admitting the indelibility of the Clerical
charaPer, (till the Noble and Learned Lord ought
to have made good his argument, by provingfrom
this the
.incapacity of Clergymen to ezercife the
fundlitinb of Members of the Houk of Commons.
The fame argumept would hold equally, good
gainft the rights of the Bifhops to feats in that
Flotife. Be could eafily account for the reafons
Which operated in the breath of fome Sovereigns,
when they re cited the Petitions of the Clergy to
the right of fitting in the Houle of Commons, nor
was he at any lots to find out the inducement with
the Clergy, who were defirous to get into the Houfe
the former exerting his authority and influence
aver them in the way of taxation, and the. Clergy
wilhing to mix with the Commons, in order to
avoid the revere exaCtions of the Sovereign upon
them as a diens& body. His Lordfhip declared,
that he was confcientioney attached to the Church
Itablifhed, and that he ecesfidered it to be one of
rte firmell props of the Coniftution ; on this ground
lie was led to oppok this bill, as tending to weaken
taus prop. On what ground did their Lordfhips
—in, to fee Bifhops in their Houk, that did not
COL to a certain degree, in &your of the Clergy's
lb •ing eligible to fit in the Houk of Commons?'
:ir Lordthips defirous of availing them.
id reaping the benefit refulting from
;, the learning, and the influence of
.rend Prelate, ? But if the reafon, as af.
Aft rf 1641, was fufficient for exclu-
,ogy from the Comments, viz. that it
her they lhould have any interference in
hitters, the fame reafon held equally
:chiding Difhops from the Houle of
in this cafe, there, he would afk,
fecurity for the Church of the Efiah-
The aft, if adupted, ought, in his
be taken up merely prorpeetively; and
.very good purpcfe would be anfwered,
bvided, that no perfim hol.e.ing a terse.
'be admitted to a feat in else Houfe of
and alto, that no Clerum. en returned
tfe Ilsculd be capable ol ac tilting any
t Its the all was now broug la forward,
:d it as a dibfranchihrnent c tf the worn
i nr pol fait. deprivin r a refpec-
of Tome of their deareft I
PI
vile--
and Learned Lord had akeL whether

any ;silence could be produced of a clergyman;
dreffed in his gown and tairoc, claiming his feat?
But, allowing that there was no fuch innce, no-
thing more could be inferred, than that the Clergy..
had, erroneoufly perhaps, conceived themfelves
ineligible : but fuch rniits.ke ought by no means to
be made a handle for difannulling their privileges.
The Learned Lord had referred to a Pamphlet
of Judge Blackftone, but he could only fay, that
he gave a different expofition in his Commentaries.
Upon the whole, viewing the Bill as retrofpeetive,
his Lordfhip Paid, it appeared to him to be molt
oppreffive and unjuit.
The Bifhop of Root r STIR declared that he en-
tertained no doubt concerning the Indelibility of
the Clerical Charlder, but he had fome rerpeeting
their ineligibility to fit in the Houfe of Commons,
as well as to the expediency of Rirring a queltion
of this nature at the prefent time. From the view
he had been led to take of the fabled, the Reve-
rend Prelate avowed his convidion, that it would
by no means be expedient to admit the Clergy to fit
,in the other Houfe. lie declared that it was with
no leis furprize than forrow, that he had heard
what hkd fallen that night from a Noble and
Learned lord (Thurlow),and that he had ground-
ed his argument upon the idea of the delibility
of the Clerical atarafter. The Learned Prelate
oblerved, that it had become cuflomary to raife
objeaions to certain principles by chailisn them'
with king of ropifla origin; but fuch one djd
not diffinguith thofe, from what exi ed in the
Chriaian Church ere Popery began. The Protef-
tant Church did not alien that Ordination was a
Sacrament : but it was Sufficient for him to fay,
that Holy Orders were of Divine Inilitution, and
that on this account the Clerical Charader was in-
delible. But he would not argue this point theo-
logically; it was fufficient for him to fay, that the
law of the land confidered the Clerical Charader
to be indelible; and even although a Clergyman '
might have negleded the duties of his profeffion
for thirty years, and have afterwards committed
certain crimes, he would be no lefs amenable to
the Ecclefiaftical Courts, and liable to be punifhed
as a perfon in Holy Orders.—The Learned Pre-
late then quoted and explained the meaning of the
Canon which prohibits Clergymen from volunta-
rily relinquifhing their Calling, and employing
themfelves as Laymen. His Lordfhip acknow-
ledged that neither of thefe would neceffarily fol-
low, if they were to have Seats in the Houfe of
Commons. He declared he could by no means
fubfaibe to that defpicable puritanical maxim,
that a Clergyman ought never to ezercife himfelf
in any thing but in the immediate duties of his cal-
ling. Moil of our eminent Divines had conneded
other branches of Science with Theology, and had
fignalized their names as Chronolosifts, Mathe-
maticians, Geometricians, Hiflonans, Philofo-
phers, &c. Such his Lordfhip laid, were Utter,
Pearfo'n,
n Barrow, Wallis, &c. thefe great Divines
were well acquainted with the pradical bufinefs of 1
the world; nor did he think that the bufinefs of the
Houfe of Commons was totally unconneded with
the Rudy of Divinity, for it was intermixed with
the great principles of Political Jullice and Mora-
lity, and the Laws of Nature and Nations. But,
although he did not think that Seats in the Houfe
of Commons were foreign to, or incompatible with
the character of Clergymen, any more than the
office of Jultice of the Peace, flill he felt ftrong
objedions to their entertaining fuch views, and
that chiefly arifing from the means by which they
would be obliged to leek admittanceinto the Lower
Houfe, fuch as opening houfes of entertainment,
difplaying flags, and truckling to every fedatian
voter. Nor was he lefs favourable to the Noble
Earl's fuggeftion of confining the ineligibility to
fuch Clergymen as held benefices; he Saw no equi-
ty in fuch a diftinaion, whilli, to the unbeneficed,
it would hold out objets of ambition, &c. For
the reafons he had Rated:his Lordfhip declared he
would vote for the Bill.
The Earl of WisTmokLANDitated his view of
the fubje&, that the Clergy and Laity were two
diftind bodies ; and as Such they had been confi-
dered in the early periods of our hiftory ; for,
when the former fat in Parliament, it was exprefs-
ly and folely as the reprefentatives of the Clergy.
His Lorellhip then proceeded to confider the rub-
jed on the grounds of immemorial ufage, of inex-
pediency, and of the effetts it would tend to pro-
duce on the minds of the Clergy themfelves, as
well as in the Houfe of Commons, by increafing
the influence of the Crown; and from thefe dif-
` tine topics, on which his Lordfhip expatiated at
fome length, be exprelred his approbation of the
prefent Bill.
Lord HOLLAND Paid, the Noble and Reverend
Prelate who had jolt fat down had fo ably fupport-
ted the Bill, that he Should not feel it neceffary to
take p much of the time of the Houle upon the
f ' . Thole Noble Lords who, like himfelf, op-
ed the Bill, had to thank the Reverend Prelate :eg
for every thing but the vote be Should give. The
way to Parliament was the only objection which
the Noble Prelate had to the meifure, yet there
were inftances of Reverend Prelates themfelves en-
tertaining at eleftions, and influencing thole over
whom they had a power to vote ; which he con-
fidered as blameable, at leak as a Clergyman can-
vaffing for votes for himfelf. If the prefent mea-
lure was brought forward by his Majefty's Mini-
-tiers to preferve the purity of Parliament (which
he was by r.o means ready to admit) he thought 1
they were very careful indeed of the liberties of the
people. If this was really their intention, he
thought the amendment fuggefted by his oble
Friend (the Earl df Moira) mull remove all un-
eafinefs upon that fubjed. The Clergy, he raid,
obtained a right to vote in confequence of their be-
ing deprived of the privilege of taxing themfelves,
and he had no hefitation in laying, that when this
right of taxing themfelves was taken from them,
they had a right to feat; in the Houfe of Commons.
If it was dangerous to fuffer Clergymen to fit in
the Houk of Commons, the fame danger was to
be apprehended in that Houk, where the Spiritual
Peers, and Clergymen who were Temporal Peers,
had feats. Clergymen had filled the bighett offices
in the State. Even the feat of the Noble Lord
upon the Woolfick, had been filled by Clergrisen;
and what mifchicf, he would anc, had refalt..d (nun

it ? It was evident, that the Crown alone was tá
have the advantage of the abilities of Clergymen—
fince they may be employed by the Crown in almoft
any Illape the people only were to be deprived of
their talents ? Suppofe, he laid, a man of abilities,
who had been ordained, and afterwards found he
was unable to pulls himfelf forward in the Church,
from want of intereft or anT other caufe; and that
any defcription of eleftors in the county thinking
that it would have been of advantage to them to
avail themfelves of his abilities, he thought it very
hard that thofe eleiftors fhould be deprived of the
Cervices of that perfon, becaufe forty years before a
Bilhop had put his hand upon his head and ordain-
ed him. He thought the prefent meafute *mid
not have been brought forward, but for the ap-
pearance
of a perfon in the Houle of Commons
whole political opinions were well known not to
accord with thofe of his Majefty's Minifters.
The Bilhop of ROCHESTER rofe to explain. He
Paid he knew but of one inftance of a Bilhop inter-
fering in elections, and that was the cafe of the
Bilhop of St. David's. The Noble Prelate did, in a
private letter to fome perfons, recommend a candi-
date ; but he did fo becaufe he well knew the opi-
nions of that candidate, againft whom he ufed his
influence, were inimical to the eftablifhed Church
of the country ; and he Paid, if he had been in the
Lune fituation he fhonld not have hefitated to have
purfued the fame line of conduft.
Lord HOLLAN,the Noble Prelate might
confider himfelf join loch conduit, but it
was not very conftitational.
The Earl of Rosswris took a very learned and
extenfive view of the Church Eilablithment of the
country, from which he drew his conclufion, that
the Clergy were ineligible to feats in the Houle of
Commons. He went over nearly the fame ground
as the Lord Chancellor, whofe opinions he corro-
borated ; and concluded by declaring his appro-
bation of the Bill. •

The Earl olC;Lust faid, as there did not ap-
pear to him any preffing neceffity for the meafure,
he hoped that fome time would be allowed their
Lordfhips to underftand the queftion, in order that
they might be able to give a confcientious vote.
For his part, he had heard fo many learned expla-
nations upon the fubjea, that he was abfolutely
puzzled ; infomuch that if the queftion were that
night put to the vote cf the Houfe, he, for one,
(hould not vote at all.
Lord Gexertly (poke againft the Bill,
Lord Caavrom declared himfelf convinced, from
the arguments he had that night heard, of the ex-
pediency of the meafure. He fhould, therefore,
vote for it. Lord CARLISLE explained.
Lord HOBART faid he felt himfelf called upon,
in confequence of one obfervation which fell from
a Noble Lord (Holland), to trefpafs for a very
(port time upon their Lordfhips. That Noble Lord
had laid the bufinefs was taken up by his Majefty%
Minifters, becaufe a perfon was fent into the other
Houfe, whore opinions were inimical to thofe of
his Majefty's Minifters. This be denied; but he
would fay, that that perfon, coming into the Houfe
I of Commons, made it the indifpethble duty of his
Majefty's Minifters to decide the queftion one way
or the other. About other men there might be a
doubt of their being in Holy Orders ; but of the
Hon. Gentleman to whom he alluded there was
not the fmalleft. Every man in the country knew
that Hon. Gentleman to be a Clergyman. He be •
lieved the Noble Lord, and every perfon who read
the Bill, would do his Majefty's Minifters the juf-
tice to fay, they had taken every pains to avoid
any perfonal infult to that Hon. Gentleman.
The queftion was then put, and carried without
a divifion. The Bill was read a fecond time and
committed, and the report ordered to be received
to-morrow.—Adjourned at half part ten o'clock.

and give it the force of law by reeordi
Statute Book. With regard to the
both declaratory and ena.fting..his

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