Star.
London, England, 1805-06-13 00:00:00

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there were fupplied. An item Of 46,6001. efts railed
to accommodate Mr. Boyd ; 22,0001. was received
by Mr. Trotter : a multiplicity of fmaller fums fwel-
led the general aggregate—and it was beyond all the
limits of credibility that Lord Melville Ibould be un-
tuf nmed on this firbjea. Lord Harrowby had been
one of the C mitrittee, and yet he knew nothing of the
irregularities in the office. In the anfwer to the pre-
cept t•f- 1782, there was no notice given of the profits
of Mr. Tiotter. The whole was a fyftern of con-
cealment, which hid almoft every thing eireelually
but ti e criminality of the party. Then he mud ad-
vet t !O the famous trantaaion of the Mutual Releafes.
'I he circumllance of thete being prepared a little pd.
terror to the precept., was a molt firfpicious
But tire N,i)lt: Lot d Paid, the claufe regarding the
Teri • tr (tir' would thew that no concealment was
ttempted hat, becatife there inftruments were
to 2 . What,
depAreal among the archives of a Court of
Record, was this no concealment ? they might remain
;or centuries in filch a place, unknown to every hu-
rian being. Again, his Lordthip denies that he
:::few any thing of the porchafe of Navy and Exche-
tiller 13:11, of India Stuck, and of fpeculation in the
Funds, with the money of his office. It was eafy to
dem& the evatlon here attempted. He might enjoy
the profits, and yet be uninformed of the particular
:nvetlments out of which that profit emanated. The
account of Lord Melville, from the form of it, fur-
nilhed additional grounds of accufation. if the pay-
?nuts had been made by Mr. Trotter from funds of
his own, !t was highly probable there would both have
been fomc fimilarity, and fame moderation in the
mum; ; but the; Painuate from Soul. to 19,c001. ; and
although there were thee outgoings to Lord Mel-
ville, there was no income whatever in his favour to
balance the account. But further, it was afcertained,
that Mr. Trotter was wholly incompetent to make
thef: advances nut of his private property, and that,
therefore, it mull be wholly drawn from the public
iii•wcy Every flep that was taken feemed to con-
fiim the brit impretlion that the whole was a cot-
] opt proceeding. Then there appeared lulus of nag.
nitride in the public funds, in the name of Mr Dun-
das. One amount was upwards oft r,oocl. another
cecceded 400c1. and a third was 8333 i• in the Re-
ed Annuities. As loon as he quitted the office,
thefe (urns difappeared, and were applied, no doubt, •
to pay the balance due on the official account,
lowered by their fuliflraelion. The double capacity
in which Mr. Trotter afted, as dependent in the
office, and private agent to Lord Melville, was vet y
tiriking, and it would have been thought that every
!move of prudence, if not of decency, direded, that
the flotations thould have been kept perfeell)
ditlinet. A Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman (the
ll.oler of the Rolls) had Lill the evi,'ence was
merdy prvfornptive in the lira leages of this inquiry,
ard Aid remained in the fatne Inflation. l'hat
Learned Gzallernan, he wit fure, need not be told
there were degrees of te tlimany, ard on the premises
now Clt.ibilihed, he (Mr. Grey) confi tently affected
there was a thong and irrefra:eabie chain of pro, f,
which neither force nor ingefirity could dellroy.
Palling by tee 22,0031. as a limiter of leparate coati-
atioir, he was warranted in faying, that the to,ccol.
1.•:1S concealed even to the time of the &led Corn•
'Mute. There was not the fmalleft trace of this
before. Taking, then, this infolated fill, and c,,n-
rie"ling with it the broad declaration of the Noble
Lord, ;hat Le never would give any explanation con-
cerning what Itiouid be the conduit of Parliament?
If ;he Commons of England lhould leave unexamined
fuch a circumitance, there was an end of its authori-
ty: What were our flatines dirdling the appro.
pration of the purfe, plefcribing oaths to
the officers with whom it was ante rifled, if the Ti ea-
finer of ti.e Navy could efcape cll inquiry, by loch a
bold avowal ? If the Treafurer of the Navy might do
this, whyrt the Chancellor of the Exchequer, why
net every Officer fuperior and fubordinate ? Here
seenld be a full licence for every ahufe, whether by
frof: dignified or the molt contemptible ler-
van' • •
'6 State Cie He did not perfeelly coincide
with what int:! Decn laid, that example was the only
end and aim of puniiliment.. There were two other
objeas at leapfrequently :n view, to reform the
offender himfelf, and to prevent the repetition of his
off.nice. Again, the punifhment for the fame crime
was not always the fame. The time, the manner,
the fituation, and Alb the rank, charader. arid cen-
dition of the r,ffender fometimes rot ooiy
the degree, but the nature of the penalty. This is t
Laid in anf,•:er to thofe that argued that too much
had been ~:t•Eajty eodured by the Noble Lord. Sup-
poling he had been Oilty tl forgery, his degrada-
tion from thole places of will he occupied, and the
honours he enj,,yed, would be a neceffary conk
(pence, but would there preclude Lim frnrn the fen-
tence and execution of the law ? Would it be laid,
as now it was contended, that the delicacy of his f:n-
timent, and the refinement of his moral renitude,
had occolarred him to fuffer fo much, that no further
pains therld tae ictfliaed ? There was this material
error in all loch reafoning, that where pec.l%l:iun was
prattife, . ot forgery cnninntLed, there was no por•
twit of that acute fentibility and virtuous pin ity
i which nflins that mental piiiiirlirrient. Let Gentle-
men apply this to Lord Melville, aceoriiieg to the
leveral opieiens they entertain of his deletes. But,
frappe:tog tare affertinn were cerred, that exam:•l,:
were the only legitimate motive for the putiiffirnelit
of the cr:mii,al, Gerol.erren might then Ice how it
would ope, ate if this enquiry were not to he purftie::.
A triune Treafurer of the Navy svoold dil'e over that
theft pradicee had been continued with impunity for
f outeen years, that an unlucky accident only led to
'he detcdion of them : he would learn, that when
they were difcovered, the delinquent was permitted
to efeape the fword of iiitEce, with :tie property
inifhed, and his atillocrat: honouis unimpaired.
mutt fingular areirment that ever was denifed
had been fuggetled by the Noble Lord (Lord Caf
tlereagh) : Lord Melville was not to be tried, be-
caul.: he had violated the law, and could not elude
conviction. Here the very mot.ve for a criminal
proceedin!„ the acknowledged delinquency. was af
figned as the reafon for avoiding it. Mr. Grey
then conclude 1 in neatly theft words: " I ditelaim
all perforial animofity, and I lhould be extremely
hap:nr if Noble Lord fhtaild be acquitted honou-
rably at the Bar cf his Country. I confefs I did
rot underhand the Noble Lord, when lie laid,
the lathes lie felt were more 'revere, on ac-
count ‘.l the hand horn whirl; they were direded.-
11.1ie fence received an iwirnation, by winch my

uncertainty has been removed. If the Noble Lord
has defended that perfon, (Sir Chat!vs Grey,) who
is moll dear to me, I fuppofe he has done Co from a
fenfe of duty, and the fulfilment of his duty can be
no argument why I thould abandon mine. On the
oecation I now refer to, in one refpoi: at lea ft, my
condo& has been direCtly oppnfed to that of the
Noble Lord; by every means I fought and courted
that enquiry, which has been fo fedeilettfly avoided,
In anxioufly deprecated by Lord Melville. My beha-
viour to the Noble Lord is not different from that 1
have (hewn to the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt)
although he adopted the fame favourable conduit to
which I have alluded. I have fince n sowed refOlu-
tions Of a criminal nature againtt him, and have ne•
vcr permitted my feelings, from facto x caufe, to in-
terfere with my facred obligations as a Member of
Parliament. On thefe principles I !hall live my vote
14 the motion of my Honourabla Fries J, in its ori-
ginal form.
Lord CASTLEREAGH raid, in explanation, he
had not afferted the confeqUence of the trial mull be
the convietion of the Noble Lord.
Mr. R. DUNDAS, adverting to fcatie alluflons
that had been made to the obfervations of Lord
Melville in his addrets to the Houfe, declared his
conviction that nothing could be further from the
mind of that Noble Lord than to impeach the right
of any Member to deliver his opinion f ully upon any
public topic. However, he could not help juflifying
the complaint of the Noble Lord as ti r the manner
in which the right of public difeuffine, had been ex•
ercifed elfewhere. The Noble Lora was entitled to
complain of the condo& of thefe Genie lemen who had
made flatements and delivered opinions upon his cafe
before perfuns who were not competent to form acor-
re& decifion—before ati mblies which were not qua-
lified from capacity to invelligate and determine upon
the quellion. This conduit was the more deferving
of complaint and cenfure, becanie many of the nate-
ments that bad been made were the very reverie of
the truth. It was underflood that at one of the late
public meetings, in the neighbourhood of the metro•
poiis, a perfon of high rank and confideration was
heard to ray, " that high loans and burthenfome taxes
proceeded from the peculations of Lard Melville and
Trotter." Now, in point of fail, nothing could be
more untrue, and yet could any thing be more
particularly calculated to miflead perfnas incapable
of judging, and to inflame popular prejudices?—
There were other points to which he was not difpofed
to allude, and to which, indeed, from the able t lan-
net in which they had been treated in the courfe of
die. debate, by Come gentlemen who concurred with
him in feotiment, he did not think it neeeffary on his
part to call the attention of the Houle, although they
appeared to him peculiarly delufive. Of thefe points,
however, there were loom which he could not per-
trade himlelf intirely to overlook. It was hated in
the Refalutions before the Houfe, and the flatement
was Inecnently echoed by the gentlemen on the other
tide, that Lord Melville poflponed the execution of
the Alt of the 25th of His Majelly, for about half a
year, and front this alledged pottponement, fevcral
very injurious inferences were drawn. Bat, how did
the cafe (fond ?—The Gentlemen who made the
flatement had not, it appeared, ever petaled the
ACl. nor in the very tint claufe it is prefcribed
that the Treacurer of the Navy lliould make out an-
nual accompts. Now, the Alt patted in July, 5785 ;
the annual accompt was direlted to dole on the 3 1 it of
December, 1786—0 f courfe it could not commence
before January ; and from this proceeded the pott-
ponernent complained of. Had the Noble Lord
(-pelted the account immediately on the paffing of the
ACt, lie could have opened the firft account only for
lix months, which he was not competent to do, as the
nature of the accounts and the time for the fill ac-
count to dole was exprefsly mentioned in the Aft.
With this ftatement he left the Houfe to conclude,
whether the charge againtt Lord Melville, in this
inftatice, of delaying the execration of a Ilatute for
finifter purpofes, was at all applicable ? With
regard to the allegation, that Lord Melville had
been guilty of proftifing a wilful and fraudulent de.
ceit upon the public and individuals refpeCting the
mode of withdrawing naval money from the Bank and
transferring it to a private banking.houfe he mutt
obferve, that notwithltanding all that had been urged
on the other tide, the natural and fair conclufion
from the Noble Lord's conduit, on being infnimed of
the communication from Mr. Raikes was this. that
lie was enCrely unc.'nfcious of any illegality, fo far as
he knew of the proceedings of Trotter. The im.
preffion on the Noble Lord's mind appeanid to be,
that no mote money was drawn from the Bank by
T. ter than was necetfAry for the convenient dill
charge of the bufinefs of the Navy Office. That large
were transferred by Trotter to a private hank,
for his own private ptotit with the knowledge of Lord
Melville, really did not appear from this part of the
cafe, upon which fume Gentlemen dwelt In much.—
An Hon. Gentleman had taken notice of fume films
of money which were in different defcription of flock
in the na,ne <4. Lord Melville, at the time the Noble
Lord retired from office. But he could attune the
I lonic and that Hon. Gentleman, that if it were not
that Lord Melville was unwilling to trefpafs on the
asteni inn of the Iloufe, when he was before it yeller-
c:ay, by a difyufling detail of family tranfaCtions, he
mild have eafily !hewn, that of thefe feeeral fums,
there was not one which had the leaft tormation
ith public money or public affairs, excepting that
w?,ich related to the loyalty loan. There was, indeed,
a pat ot the property alluded to, with which he had
himfelf fame connettion, and that part the Houle
might be allured was never puichafed with public
money. The Honourable Gentleman, therefore, was
tot founded in the intonations he threw out with re-
fire& to this Stock. Now as to the releafe, of which
fo much had been (aid, lie could Rate, that Gentle.
men were under a conliderable millake when they
imag;.ned that fuck an inltnitment could be regiflered
without ptiVcity. The fait was, that like all other
deeds in Scotland, where there was a claufe of regif-
tration, it might be initiated at the Regitler Office ;
and as to the ()ninon of the names of the procurators
in the body of the releafe, which a Noble Lord
(Lord Henry Petty) had loft night remarked upon,
a (Unita, ornidion was to be found ?n every Scots
deed—the names of the 'nominators never Acing
'anowa until the deed was abort tat be prreerded
upon. It had been argued by the Hnnourable Gen.
ticman who moved the impeachment, that a con-
cert between Lord Melville-and Mr. Trotter retina-
jog this releafe was fairly to hat pretutitedi btcaule,

as the Hon. Gentleman Rated it, a precept from the
Naval Commilnoners was iffued on the 17th of Ja-
nuary, ►So3, requiring a return of the balances of
public money, at feveral periods, in the hands of the
Treafurcr of the Navy, &c. to which precept a re-
turn as made early in February, juft about the time
of the execution cf the releafe. In this aatement he
conceived that there mull have been a midake—for
Lord Melville being at that period in Scotland, it was
impolfible that the precept could have been ferved
upon him and the return received within the time
mentioned. Having mark inquiry upon this point,
he was enabled to date pnfitively that no fuch pre-
cept was ever fersed upon Lord Melville, nor did he
know of any precept whatever from the Naval Corn-
miffmners until that in July, 1804., which was men-
tioned in the Tenth Mepot t. The train cfrufpicious
circumgances, therefore, which the Honourable
Mover would deduce, from the precept alledged to
have been allied in January, 1803, was, with refped
to Lord Melville, totally unfnunded.
Mr. BOND and Mr. GEM' feverally explalned.
Mr. ELLISON confidered the Finufe in the litua.
don of a Grand Jury, and felt Limfelf bound to fay
as one of their number, that the qaeftion fhould go
to a Jury. He had come into the Houle delegated to
wa.cl► over the interefts of the country, and fhould
think himfelf very deficient in the eiercife of his duty
in that capacity, if he did not endcavonr to promote
the end: of public jun ice by voting for farther inquiry.
He was lorry that this inquiry was confidered as Co
hollile by the Noble Lord, but it was what the people
erpeted and had a tight to. It was neceffary to the
dignity of the country that fume farther inquiry
fhould be made. He would therefore give his vote
for the 'notion.

Mr. GEORGE VANSlTTART,recommended
a criminal profecution in preference to an impeach-
merry, on account of the expence and public iriconte-
nience attending the latter.
Mr. BANKES regretted that the Houk had not
come at fire to the refolution of a criminal profecu-
cution, as he had recommended on a former occa-
lion. It bad always appeared to him, he confeffed,
that a civil profecution could be attended with no
ultimate advantage, and that the only way to invef-
tigate and lift the matter, was by a criminal and not
a civil fuit. He was led on various grounds to pre-
fer this mode of proceeding to an impeachment,
though that he argued was fill open.—The Hon.
Member laid, he had taken pains to examine into the
Parliamentary precedents on this fubjeft, and had
found one that was very applicable. It was the cafe of
the Lord Halifax, when Auditor of the Exchequer,
againfl whom Refolutions were palled by the Houfe,
for not examining the Tellers Vouchers, &c. The
Ref)lotions paffed January 27, 17c2. the Houfe de-
termining, naturally, on the c•iminality before the
ttial, as it was neceffary to fee that a crime exitled in
the fill inflame. The Regulations were afterwards
carried up to the font of the Throne. It was then
ufual not to order the Attorney-General, lon to ad•
chefs the Throne to dircil the Attorney-General to
prorecote the delinquent, and the Q2een was addict-
lcd accordingly. Here was a complete precedent for
all the Houfe had done in the pretent instance, ex-
cept the civil fuit ; and lie thought the Houfe Ihould
now di, ea the criminal profecution. He then noticed
the cenfures palf.d on the Duke of Marlborough,
which were all', laid before the Qt...teen, who ordered
a profecution thereon. He was extremely furprifed
to hear from any Gentleman who had been upon the
Committee of Enquiry, that enough had been done
towards Lord Melville. He wts of opinion, that
there was quite enough of new matter for further pro-
ceedings. He feverely condemned the cordttet of
the Noble Lord, in his avowal of his determination
not to difclofe to any Court or Tribunal, the tife to
which he had api‘lied a fum of public money—a dill
cloture vatic!' he had deemed incontinent with private
honour and perfonal convenience.

Mr. CANNING contended that, even admitting
the fuppofed extent of Lord Melville's guilt, punith-
men' enough had been inflifted, either tor the pur-
pofes of public juaice, as to the delinquent, or any
benefit to be derived from it by way of example.—
After the confequences which had refulted from the
vote of cenfure, furely no mart would afterwards
think of employing his private agent in any fitnation
conneded with the di9ribution of public money ; and
every principal would henceforth look more narrow-
ly into the appropriation of money by hht deputy.—
After all that had been Rated, he would bill con-
tend that nothing had occurred which materially va-
ried the cafe of Lord Melville, from that cn which
the Houfe had firft come to a vote of cenfure. Was
not the principal offence alledged againit him then,
the divertion of 60,0001. to purpofes not naval ?
Had any thing occurred from which it could be ar-
gued, that the so,oool. fo much dwelt on, was not
a part of that funs, of which 40,0001. had been ac-
counted for by his Right Honourable Friend, (Mr.
Pitt.) Before the Houfe voted an Impeachment,
they should a& whether they had proofs to alledge in
fupport of it? At prefent they had nothing of the
fubjeft but the explanations given by Lord Melville
and Mr. Trotter, of which the Honourable Gentle-
man feemed difpcfed to take jolt as much as he pleaf-
ed, allowing the strong declarations of the former as
to his innocence to pals unnoticed. But fomething
more definitive and fubQantial molt be adduced in a
court of jultice. What lofs had been fultained by the
Public ? The 7 cool .of additional falary given as a
compenfition in lieu of former emoluments. He would
afk,whether this was the meaning in which the term lols
was applied by the Honourable Gentleman when he
&ft brought forward the fubjeft. In the fame man-
ner he would atk, whether the balance of 50001.
lately p.:id over by Lord Melville, was what he had
in view when he alluded to enormous defalcations.
The Honourable Member then particularly adverted
to an amendment, which, he Paid, under the pretence
of lenity, would inkjet Lord Melville to a much
more rigorous proceeding than that of impeachMent.
He trotted, however, that after what had already pag-
ed, the Houle would think it unneceffary to refort to
either.

Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST faid,•that from the
refpell he entertained for the Houfe, and for a Right
Honourahle Friend of his, with whom the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman who had jug fat down was par-
ticularl• conneCted, he would decline to enter into
tome contentious topics which that Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had thought proper to intrcduce. If that
Right Hon. Gentleman fancied that he could fern
the cafe of Lord Melvilh, hit him indulge himfclf,or

if any of the Noble Lord's friends hoped to derive
any advantage from the mode of arournent which
the Right Hon. Gentleman had adopted, he lhould
not attempt to diflurb their hopes—i le would con-
fine the remarks he had to futooir to a few point!, !
which referred principally to a comp.rri6m (it' the two I
modes of proceeding againfi the Noldc Lord, which i
were before the Houfe. Before he adverted to this t
comparifon he begged to fay that the Right ifon. !
Gentleman was under a mistake, as to what his Right I
Hon. Friend who moved the Amendment had ft ated,
1 refpeaing the regiltration of the Releafe. For it ap-
peared that although this releafe might be recorded, .1
its publicity wou'd not neceffarily follow, and from .
a flatement which the Houfe had heard this night, it i
was clear that the names of the prolecutors were not •
to be known lintels a fuit fhoold arife on the deed.
—So that, lusters in the s.. eat of a law fuit be-
tween Lord Melville and Trotter, this releafe might
never become a matter of notoriety. It was loco:-
rea, therefore, to alien that this releafe was a public
instrument, and not at all meant to he concealed.— k
As to the form of proceeding in the Court below, in
cafe the amendment was adopted, that mull be left to
the difcretion of the Attorney General, who would,
no doubt, make ufe of all thofe materials in the two i
reports on the table, i• liich mit,ht be necelfary to
further the ends of jultice. The 9tieflion for the
Houle to confider was, not how to decide upon the
guilt of Lord Melville, but what was the bell way of
bringing him to trial. That any thing could he ob.
tained to fatisfy juftice or the country from a civil
fuit, he thought quite idle to tiippote. A criminal
profecution alone could avail, particularly againli a
perfon who declared in that Houle, that he had di-
verted the public money irons the objei't for which it
was voted by Parliament, and applied it to Nitrites,
" the nature of which he would not explain to any
perfon or power in the country." He contended that
much new matter had come out from the Report of
the l'elea Committee ; that many new faits, in allega-
tion, as well as in proof, appeared ; and with fuch ffaitsl
before the Houfe, it could not be laid to do its duty,
if it flopped where it then WAS with regard to Lord
Melville. The Right Hon. Gentleman (fated that a •
precept from the Naval Commillionet shad been ferved
in January, stzo3, as the Hon. Moyer had flated, upon him as Treafurer of the Navy, and upon Mr.
Trotter; and from the return to that precept it ap-
peared,
that there was a continual deficiency in the
public balances during the whole period of Lord Mel-
ville's continuance in the No, y oliice, although dur-
ing three fucceedino 'Freaturers there was 110 defiei.
ency whatever. The refufal of Lord Mtlville to ac-
count for the public money he had withdrawn :tom
its legal deflination, furnifhed mrre than a ground of
folpicion again!' li;rn. In lac?, tiie charge r.f public
money coming into his hands being proved, unlefs
he explained the manner in which he applied it, there
was prima facie evidence against him that he made ufe
of it for his own benefit. If it were maintained that
the punifhment already infraed was quite fulficiento
thee he would fay, that civil procefs, ordered by the
Houfe, was fuperfluous, and that no queflinn remain-
ed for the Houfe but as to the total abfolutinn of the
Noble Lord. The Right Honourable Gentleman who
had jolt fat down aliened that Lord hfelVille had
been guilty of no infraction of the law. Then, if fo,
all that the Houle had done (hould he retracted. But
upon this he would only lay, that if the Noble Lord
were guilty, fufficient punithment had not been in.
Aided, while, if innocent, he was m All horrid y treat-
ed. With a view to afcertain this quettion—to do
juflice to the Noble Lord and the country, it was hie
with to fend him to trial, in order that if he was guilty
the fentence of that Hoof: might have a legal fanc.
tioo—if innocent, that he thould be acquitted—that
his character (tumid be vindicated and his honours re-
ilored. The Right Honourable Gentleman declared
' that from his knowledge of the Navy Office, the prac-
tice of Trotter, which Lord Melville fanetiored, was
not at all neceffary for any purpole of convenience,
while he deemed it equally oppolite to law as incon.
fiflent with propriety. Upon the whole he thought
juflice would not be done if Lord Melville were not
lent to trial. In cafe of his cooviftion any Coffering*
he bad heretofore undergone would of comic be
taken ipto confederation, as in all other cafes, in the .
infliction of the punifhment. But it would be idle to
maintain that enough has been already done. Lord
Melville had met with nothing that could be called
a permanent punifhment. All that had yet been
done might be reverted; and, indeed, from the dif-
pofition that had been manileiled ; from the opinions
that the Houfe had heard, and from the quarter
whence thofe opinions proceeded, it was impotlible
to fay how loon the attempt at rcoerfal might be
made. To guard again(' inch an event, and to ac-
complifh the defires of jultice and the country, he
felt it his duty to vote for the criminal profecution.
Mr. RYDER contended, that the condo now pro.
poled was contrary to all the principles and the ana-
logy of the law of England, namely, that after 4
man had received a fencence, and that fentence was
infliaed on him, for any thing, he WAi puni(hed fur-
ther for what might be called the ag oreation of his
offence. The Horife had patrol a re:*.lutino, decla-
ring that the Noble Lord had mirappliei the public
money, that was the corpus deli .-.'2 ; what had since
beers dilcovered in the fait Report was only an aggra-
vation of that offence.
Mr. WILBERFORCE exolaire I.
(4 great call for Oki qujlion.)
Mr. WHITBREAD role to reply. He fat down
again immediately, to give Maw to
The ATTORNEY GENERAL (Fated, in anfwae
to a queflion from the Honourable Mover, that the
civil profecution ordered by the Houle was in pro.
grefs, although not yet entered on the file of the Ex-
chequer. It would have been much more forward if
it were not that he had waited for the Report of the
Seidl Committee, in the expectation that that Wooll
throw more light upon the lubjeCt. If tire amend:
'pent were carried, he confelfed, that he would feel
hirnfelf much embai rallied as to the mode of proCeeda
ing, unlefs it were precifely chalked ont by the Houfe,
he meant as to the points upon which he should refk
for the proof of Lord Melville's criminality. The
fubflantive ground of charge mull of courfe be its
uponviolal
trateif thein law,
his
judgment,that wasn Lord Melville
corpus
mhelvile hda,d/ita
already
a r,
eand
dr
been putAted. After fuels punilhnient for an offence
he was decidedly of opinion, that it would not be.
enalosous to the fpirit of jultice Or any principle of
Britith law, to punifh him again for any circ,umlian-•
ens of aggraysitiom &Leh a mode of Proteeding roarA

Anowtt in any Court in this cc: nutty, and Le trnft-
eitthat it would never be refo: zed to by that Hrufe.
The Learned Gentlems.n denied that he had ever
given an opinion in favour cf the innocence of
ord Melville in a legal point of view. His legal
gnat was univerfally Pdmitied, and if the proper
courfe had been followe4 he would have fupported
the original motion. He latnented the comfy of
the proceedings of the Honk, and had good reafon
tr ho.ieve that there was row a vowing ptevailing
oinion in the country, tha the meafures adopted
Were ton preciipit ate.

Mr. Vlill ITBREAD, (at a little before 3 o'clock)
role to reply.—He began by alluding to the charges
which Gentlemen on the other fide had .brought
agait him, for the whole of his conchal in the
bnfirefs. It had been contended that he was influenced
by feelings of cruelty and revenge ; by a defire of plac-
ing Lord Melville in a fituation more humiliating than
ever Dritifh fubjea had been placed before. He had
been acculed of entrapping the Houfe into a particular
form of proceedings, and involving them in embar-
raffments,from which any fair retreat was itnpoffible.
To flich charges he could not plead guilty. nor could
he contentedly hear affertions, fo confidently deliver.
ed, which had no foundation in truth. Whatever a
Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning) might
think of the defultory and ftuoid manner in which he
had managed this Winds, and whatever might be
the epinion of the Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man of the growing and prevailing fentiment of the
country, as to the imprudence of the vole of the Bth
April, he felt himfelf called on to defend his charac-
ter ag..inft a charge fo foul as the fuppotition, that be
bad ever uttered one expreffion, or fupported one
fentiment, from feelings of vengeance ageind any
ia-
dividnal. He had ever felt himfelf aanated by prin-
ciples of honefty and views of public advantage.—
Having noticed this charge in terms of becoming in-
dignation, he referred to what bad fallen this even-
ing from a Right Honourable Gentleman oppofite,
(Mr. R. Dundas), who naturally felt a warm intereft
in whatever concerned the charaaer of that Noble
Lord, whom be had thought it his duty to arraigif
as guilty of grofs malverfation in a public office of
high rcfpeatability. He was fenbble, that when (peak-
ing of the Noble Lord's conduit, he was forced to
make ufe of ftrong language, becaufe he felt &tingly
on the fubjea. He begged leave, however, to allure
the Right Hon. Member, that he meant to him no
fort of perfonal offence. On the contrary, what had
fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman this evening,
was fe highly refpettful to the Houfe as to met gene-
ral approbation. It would perhaps have been well for
the Noble Lord to have left his defence w'oolly the
bands of the Right Hon. Gentleman,radaer than have
undettaken it himfelf. If this celiac had been fol-
lowed, fuse lie was that the Noble Lord's charaaer
would have appeared lefs ch;jeaionable than it did
after the defence, which he himfelf underVok, was
elided. He could not fuffer Wulf& to think, that the
defenceextenuatedthe enormity of the cafc,as an Hon.
Member (Mr. H. Browne) teemed to fuppofe, when
• be (aid it would have been wife to withdraw the mo.
• lion after an explanation fn fatisfaaory. He was, per-
haps, not fo wife as the Hon. Gentleman, but he was
at lead too nice to be catisfied with a defence, which
neither fupplied what was deficient, or explained what
was doubtful in the tranftaions ct mplained of. A
great deal had been faid of the difficulties attending
the proceecjings of the Houle. He did not pre:endao
deny that difficulties did eai.t, but of this he was quite
fenbble, that the greater part of them were difficulties
which,the Gentlemen on the other fide knowingly and
. willingly flaked. or to fpeak more accurately, created.
He.was fer.fible that ingenuity, eloquence, and dex-
terity lid all been put on the [hatch to invent diffi-
culties which were whol'y i3itious. The grand dif-
ficulty which, if once. removed, would render every
other trifling. was, that Gentlemen on the other fide
would not proceed on the direst evidence contained in
' the Report of the Committee. The difficulty was,
that they would not prcceed to that direel vote which
that evidence fo clearly pointed out to be necelfary.
The Right Hon. and'Leatned Gentleman who fpoke
• had, in anfwer to a creflion of his, whether the
civil fuit and the criminal charge were confiflent with
each other, been forced to admit that they were per.
featly compatible ; and here then one grand difficulty,
one grand ohjetlion ag.iinit the motion, was removed.
Even, however, if they had been incompatible, a ficn-
ple remedy would have been obtained. It would only
have been neceffary to profecute the criminal charge,
and coffer the civil (nit to tell in oblivion for ever.—
But the Gentlemen on the other fide charged all the
meaftne hitherto taken with p-; ecipitation and vio-
lence. If in his lininble he had ever been proud
of his conneflion with the promotion of public
good, the !hare which he had in theft tranfaaions
was a kill ground of exultation—if ever that Route
had reafon to be proud of any decifion; it was the de-
cifion of that- day which Gentlemen were fo anxious
to load with reproach. He dared any Right Hon.
Gentleman to propofe to the Houle to refeind thofe
Refolutions, which to the craintry had afforded to
much fataaflion. He se IS lute that no Right Hon.
Gentleman would have tha effrontery to ps opofe fnch
a mealuie. If they did, he was ready to meet it,
and he was confident loch a propofitiou would meet
with the fate it defery ed. It was agreeably to every
pi inciple of reafor., that a CI iminating refolution
thould precede an impeachment. In this cafe, how-
ever, where the inquiry was refpeaing the mifappli-
cats of Go,oool. 'nf Naval Money, no refolutione
bad been moved, and therefore lie and the Houfe
wore left pea fatly unfettered in their decifion on the
preterit occalion.
With refpea to the cafe of Jellicoe, it feemed ufual
with Gentlemen on the other fide, to reprefent it as
a matter of trifling confideration. He, for his part,
never had viewed it in that light ; but had, on the
contrary, made it the fubjea of Come refolutions,
which, however, were withdrawn on the whole mat-
ter being referred to a Committee. It was very un-
justly insinuated that improper means were taken to
aflame the public mind by the accufations of Lord
elville's public condua. The fait was, it was the
convitiion of the delinquency of that condua that
enflamed the indignation of all ranks in the bate—
ancl.he was convinced that this indignation would not
fubfide tilt the great ends of public ttid:ce were fully
latisbcd. Ai to county meetings on this fubjefi, hi
h id not attended one of them, nor had he figned a
tingle requifition. He was ready, however, to con-
feis that his feelings were highly gratified by the flat-
tering marki of approbation bellowed at many of).
there mectips on his public conduit.

There marks of approbation were to hlm the more •
gratifying, as he was confcions they were never '
meanly courted. But as fn much was laid of the
inflammatory language, it might not be improper to
recall to the recolieCtion of ft'me Gentlemen, the
fort of language which was employed at the time
Lord Melville proporecl the impeachment of Sir
Thomas Rumbold. Before Sir Thomas Rumbold
was called on for his defence, the melt acrimonious
aecufatincs were citculated againil him all over the
country. He himfelf could recoiled the Connie' of
Sir Thomas making a formal complaint on the fub.
jet at the bar. That Counfel was now at the head
of our Law Department, and was doubrlers a man
of the moll fplendid talents and wonderful ac-
quirements. Not only was he able to fulfil all the
arduous ditties of the Court of Chancery and of the
Speaker of the Houfe of Lords, but bad leifute fuf-
ficient to employ in political manoeuvres end in-
trigues. If report did not belie the country, he had
fuceerbfully exerted his arts in turning out, at no re-
mote dillance of time, one Adminifiration (aloud cry
If hear I bear .'), and perhaps it. would not be long
before his talents were occupied in the fame way with
fimilar breccia. This difkinguiffied perfonage then
at the bar, and Counfel for Sir Thomas Rumbold,
.addreffed Lord Melville, the accufer, in the language
of ling James to his favourite Buckingham, when
he was about to undertake the impeachment of the
Earl of Middleton. The language of James is, and
the Comte' pointedly applied it to Lnrd
then a Member of this Houfe Sireny, Stenfq,
you are a fool if you go on, you will have your belly:
ful of Peachments before you die." Such was the
language ufed to Lord Melville, and it was not a
little wonderful how truly it had been exemplified.—
The language of the Noble Lord even at this time
was altogether unaccountable. When employed in
his defence, be talked much of new regulations lobe
introduced into the Office of Treafurer of the Navy,
and almoft feemed inclined to tempt the Houfe to re
cal him to this his favourite employment. This, how-
ever, is rendered impoffible, independent of-any ef-
forts of men. The Noble Lord was abfolutely Feb
defe. He was literally a fuicide. Never more could
he indulge the hope of revifitiug the Political Ely-
fium. He is doomed for ever to wander on the banks
of the Styx' indulging in fruitlefs penitence, and
forming ufelers fdremes of reformation.
()slam vellent masers in alto
Nunc et pauperiem, et duros perfcrre Morris!
Fats obilant, triltique palus inamabilis nods
Alligat, et novics Styx interfufa coercet.
The Honourable Member, after this claffical allu-

Finn, proceeded to comment on the extraordinary de-
&union of all documents, memorandums, or re-
cords which could throw the leall light on thole myf-
terious tranfaCtions, which ellablithed Lord Melville's
criminality. He reprobated in fevere tetms this in
famous proceeding, and appealed to any Learned
Gentleman in the H-rule, whether it was not of a na-
ture that would beget an immediate and poiveiful
fufpicion of the fouled fraud in any Cotirt of Law or
Equity in the Kingdom. On the fubje& of Lord
Melville's being already fuflicisntly punillted, as con-
tended by his friends, lie %%abed not long to occupy
the attention of the Houle, having already more
than once fully Rated his fentiments. He only put
it to the Houle, whether any ore conceived that Lord
Macclesfield was fufficiently puniased by a vote of,
cenfure, and by having that vote Of cenfure carried
op to the Throne. No one ever held filch a mon-
Rrotis propofition, and' what was the guilt of Lord
Macclesfield in point of enormity to that of Lord Mel.
vile? Here, howeyer, the Right Honourable Gen
tieman came forward, and silted, will you &ft Mill&
the fcrerell wounds, fltut up the criminal in a dun-
geon, alld when his pain is alma fubfided, drag him
forth, and aid him with frefh cruelties ? It was tafy
for the Right lion. Gentleman's fancy to fport with
theta metaphoric tortures, but if he wilted to know
what tortures in reality ware, he would refer him
to the tortures ;laded on the bare backs of the un-
fortunate inhabitants of Ireland. He begged leave
to affure the Right Honourable Gentleman, that
what he wanted waa nut cruelty. It was fubßan-
tial jußice againft a great public offender that he
required, and this juflice, with the affillance of the
Hook, he trolled he would drat. The Honourable
Member was very pointed on the fubjea of the re-
payment of the public money, on which Tome ge..tle-
men laid to much 'frets. There was not a fit,gle
document to prove the repayment, and the only cit.
dence of it was the evidence of Trotter, which was
frail, confuted, and unfatisfailory, and certainly no-
thing more fatisfaelory was obtained from Lord Mel-
ville, who had a recolleftion to the full as frail as his
Paymafler and Agent- It could not be pofitively
Alerted, but there was a hong prefumption that the
repayment was by means of improper fpecolatinns
with the public money. To clear up this bufinefs
inquiry was indifpenfible, and no mode of inquiry
was fo dignified, or fo jug to all parties as impeach-
ment. He thawed that many of the inconveniencies
of an impeachment applied to the admirable inftitu-
tion of Juries. The cafe of Mr. Hollings' impeach-
' meat had no analogy to that now propofed.—lt
would be • jug as conchifive to fay that the im-
peachment would 101 l only 25 days, occupied'in the
trial of Lord Macclesfield, as that it would lad ten
years, occupied in the trial of Mr. fallings: The
Hon. Gentleman, after a great variety of other re-
marks, concluded-by an animated appeal to thofe who
were (avowable to' a criminal profecution to join in
fo important an end.
Mr. SHERIDAN Rated, in a few words, the :ea•
fops that induced him to prefer the Impeachment to
a Criminal Profecution.
The Motion on the Amendment was then put, in
the following manner : " That the Original Words,
viz. That Lord Vifcount Melville be "impeached of
High Crimes and Mifdemeanors," Rand part of this
Motion.

The Ayes on this quetlion went forth, and when
in the Lobby, Mr. Fox addrelled the Members, and
faid, that upon this queflion it was probable that they
thould be in a Minority. But, as after this quellion
the Amended motion would be put for a Criminal
Profecution, he would certainly concur in that mode,
though he did not think it equally proper as the
mode of Impeachment. He intreated Utile Gentle-
men, therefore, who thought with him on this point,
not to quit the Houfe.

The numbers were—Ayes 195—Noes 272.
Majority againil the Impeachment, 77. •
On this•quefion the Chancellor of the Exchequer
and his friends voted with Mr. Bond and the other
friends of Lord Sidniouth.

The credion of Ameochneot was then put in
the following words—" That the Attorney General
be direlled to profecute criminally Lord Vifcount
Melville, for the raid offences" (land part of this mo-
tion. The numbers were—. Ayes 238—Noes 229—
Majority for a criminal profecution 9.
On this Motion Lord Sidmouth's friends voted
with Mr. Whitbread.
On both queftions the fame number of Members
voted., viz. +yr, Tellers inckfive, fo that forty three
Members aaing between the two great Bodies de-
cided the queftion.—The main queftion for the Cri-
minal Profecution was then put and carried.
The Houfe adjourned, at Half paft Five this
Morning, till Friday ; when the DircuMon will take
place of the gefolntions, of which Mr. Whitbread
has given notice, relative to the Degree in which
Mr. Pitt is implicated in the Malverfations of Load
Melville

I'M:now:it in s
etl that it wo
• The Learned
given an of
Lord Melva
guilt was In
courfe had Ist
the original
• . the proce:dit
to ho.leve tht
. . I • oie.nton n I
were ton pre,
.1 Mr. Wl-11
• role to reply
which Gent
- agait It him
tonfirefs. It
by feelings of
ing Lord Me
ever Dritifh
been accufed
• form of prc:
raffments,fr
To fnch cha
he contentet
ed, which 1
Right Hon(
I think of the
had rnanagt
• the tpinion
man of the
country, as
• April, he
ter ag..inft
had ever u
fentimen', I
dividnal.
ciples of he
Having not
dignation,
• ing from a
(Mr. R. D
in whatever
• Lord, who
as guilty of
high refpee
•
. .
• ing of the 1
meek, ufe o
• on the rut+
the Right
fort of pert
fallen from
was fa big!
I . ral approlP
the Noble 1
• bandsaftlu
wade:taken
lowed. fort
would have
after the de
H
defenceem
Member (IN
• be raid it w
• lion after ar
•
baps. ant ft
• ht lead too
neither fupi
was doubtf
great deal 1
the proceed
deny that
fenfible, tha
whichabeG
• willingly fit
He .was fcr
malty lid
culties whit
Amity whit
other
would not ;
! the Report
that they w
that eviden
The Right
• LIR, had, b
civil fuit an
each other,
feetly comp
/t one grand
Even, how
t. le remedy
have been ti
and coffer. t 1
• But the Ge
mature. b
lence. If i
of his con
good, the I
was a jull
had reafon
cifion of the
to load wit,
Gentleman
Refolutions
much fatil
Gentleman
a meafure.
and he was
with the fat,
• principle of
Ihould piece
ever, where
cati.,:t of Ca
had been mi
were left pc
prefent occa
With refp
with Gentle'
a matter of
4 never had v
contrary, in
which, how
ter being ref
jualy
gnflame the I
Melville's pc
convielion u
enflamed the
• I:
auctt-he was
fubfide till tl
latistled.
it t
h td not atter
I. I tingle requifi
fels that his f
4 . ter ing marki
there mectip2
•