Star.
London, England, 1812-04-11 00:00:00

PARLIAMEM'ART PRota.EDMGS.

NOM .OR LORD?, APRIL le.
Ike cross Appeal from the Court of Session, 44 MloTair v.
dog," the Solicitor General and Mr. Nolan were hesrd for
Appellmt, and Mr, Adam for the Respor.der.t.—/ umber
isg 1111 Monday •
Irish Militia Families' the Masts' Bill, and the Trish
lees` Families Ball were read a third time and passed.
he lryolvent Debtors Amendment Bill was returned from
Commons, with the Amendment agreed to, by Mr. Kearick
Abet Members, who also brougkt up a Canal Bill, which
read a lint tune.
Ir. KEMP trout the Mint, presented an account of Toltens
.ed for the Bank of England.—Ordered to lie on the table.
'l•he Earl of Wellington's Annuity Bill, the Infant Suitors
All, the Hondoratt Wood Bill, and the Jamaica and St. Do-
mingo intercourse Prohibition Bill, passed through Committees.
' were reported. The last Bill was ordered tp be read a third
at Tuesilay.
to Pilchard still also passed through a Committee, with an
testament. altering the year in the tale for the perioi of the
titniation of the Act, from 1809 to 1819.—Report to-morrow.
ttl GREY presented a Petition from the Merchants, Manu-
trers- and others of Newcastle-uponlyne, for opening the
: India Trade.'
be Marquis of STAFFORD also presented a Petition for the
object from the Manufacturers, &c. of Walsall ; and Lord
F FIELD a Petition from the Ship Owners of the Pon 0
Ann. ,
All the Petitions were ordered to lie on the table.
On the motion of Lord REDESDALE, the second reading
his Lordship's insolvent Debtors Bill was Axed tor Thurs-
next.

Earl STANHOPE obser►ed. that his motion relative to the
Peasabtry of 11.cland was already file' for that day, and there-
be trusted it would have the precedence.
REVERSION DILL.

The Order of the Day being read, for the House
ing into a Committee on the Bills
Earl GROSVENOR said, he rose with feelings
tonsiderable anxiety respecting the Bill, consider-
the conduct of Ministers with regard to it for the
five years. For although they knew that it was
lost pOptilar measure throughout the country, yet.
y had declared it to be of no impoitance, and had
her throsra it out, or caused it to be altered so as
be of no use at all. Indeed, on that account he
Jar felt considerable difficulty, whether he should
Nw turn his back upon the 13i11 altogether, or whe-
n- he should move some Amendment to it. He
shed t.,7 hive seen a Noble Viscous; in his place,
to is now at the head of his Majesty's Councils, to
Ave known whether he would now sanction this
wasure, which he bad so warmly expressed himself
,ivour of on foriner occasions, there was scarcely
ty part of the BiR which he would vote for in its
,sent shape, It might be said, that if this rnea-.
e 'Was' td• take effect, many persons would be un-
•ly treated, who are now holding such offices.—
% wLhed, that .on a proper case of service being
,Je cut, those men ebould receive a fair remune-
ior. It could not be said, that in moving his
:n.iment he was stigmatizing any noble or re-
:ctable person who might he holding Places in Re-
crsicii, into Which they most likely were put while
they were hanging at their mothers' or nurses' breasts.
then moved, that the term for which the Bill is

lipt. be-altered from Feb. 1814, to Feb. 1840.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, that as the
preamble stood, that amendment would make the
Bill hold out a false hope to the people, that the whole
the reversionary and sincecure places were to be
done away with. Now there are only sixteen places to
suspended by this Bill, during its continuance.
ie wished to know what advantage it would be to
the country, as the salaries of these offices did not
tmount altogether to 435,000 a year ; and mlst of
arse, on expiring, could not be renewed again.—
The more of these were granted before he came into
political l,fe ; and he defied any man to say, that
tl.ere had been any abuie of this power during the
tst thirty years. This measure being so often re-
!ated, would only teach the people to believe, that
ll cotruption originated in the higher orders, and in
to two Houses of Parliament. He lielieved he
seeded not to assure them, that he wanted no such
dace himself; but he could not help remaiking,
'tat, in Sir R. Walpole's administration, there v,ere
tore Officers of the Navy and Army in Parliament
lan there now are. There is now no such influence
the Crown in Parliament ; but it must also be
stated, that the influence of the Crown throughout
'le country had increased to a most alarming extent,
i consequence of the increase of the yearly revenue
rom 20 millions to SO. Even if they could succeed
abolishing all the Places in Reversion, he did not
ink that the benefit could be felt amidst such an
Tenditure.
The Earl of DARNLEY supported the amend-
lent ; not because he believed that any great ad-
antage was likely to result from this measure, but
!cause the country expected that their Lordships
,ould turn their minds to the gradual correction of
' abuses.

Earl GREY disclaimed most of the opinions ad-
anced by his Noble Friend (Lauderdale), for he
should be sorry the Public should think he felt in
Arch a manner respecting any subject connected with
the great question of reiurm, as this was. He was
lot one of those who attached much importance to
ais measure, except as it sheaved a disposition on
.heir parts towi.rds a general reform of abuses. He
luld at that time name three (Zees which had been
granted in reversion, the holders of which received
among them AtiO,Qoo.per annum. Now if this had

it been so granted, it might have been regulated,
And so much saved to the Counuy. He would there-
fore much rather see tbisßili as a permanent measure
ihaii as one for two years. 1214 Noble friend (Lau-
derOale) lie knew was much too accurate an observer
`a to he 'aware that the influence of the Crown had
ieatly increased even in Parliament, by the immense
amine oi the artny. the navy, the revenue and all
4ict•rried in collecting it. There beina therefore no
cpii, in die present pate of WV affairs, nf,i reduc-
:l of the arny, the navy, or the revenue,. and as
cnvid not ueprive the Crown of thr.erpointrnent
wer* Prciff those cie?*414444 they 01.104 to) clitsk
•

.6 .:

. . • ~ ,
ille means of that direct inflionce which was within single; there can be but one oWnion, and that is, to i Mr. CURWEN again rising, the.SPEAXER eau
their icaoh. He had many points of difference with sectt every prudent means 'that can be adopted served, that there bong no question before isse
the present Administration, 'but none! greater than the e kolort of the lower classes of the people, who, House, he doubted much tke propriety of continuing
that they wot.ld pot retrench the useless burthens.-- wlreyey saw their legislators exerting themselves tee conversatirn.
He vees.l for the amendment. . I so.' nuously for their welfarle, would cheerfully Mr. CURWEN said he should submit a rust' .
The Earl of LIVERPOOL was satisfied, 'front bear many privations which atpesent are more than to the House on the subject. He.di4 not mean to
-enquiry, that not one half of the number of theMeen. Trksome to be endured. 'I conceive that a few slight charge the Right Honourable Gentleman with sus..
beta of Parliament now hold offices as there did in , "alterations in the statute I have named, would corn- pinenecs on the present occasion particularly, but the
sii R. Walpole's time, when OfEcers of the Army pletely effect the object I have in view ; and if any •Importation of last year ought to have shewn the ne...
(fcr exarnsle the great Earl of Chatham) lost their j assistance were required by the Right Hon. Gentle. -cess.ty of an inquiry into tbe.best means of obviate,g
commissions for not supporting the measures of Go. man, I should be extremely happy to afford it.in any it in future. He had no doght but that the pineal
vernment : a thing sever heard of now, He opposed way that is within my power." scarcity of specie was in a great degree owing to the.
the amendment. l The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER bullion sent out of the country to pay for the goo*.
After a few words from Lords Monroe, HOLLAND, replied.—" 1 have not the slightest difficulty in ad- that was brought in. An alteration of the inspro.
and GROSVENOR) in reply, the amendment was nega. milting that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Curwen) did, tion price would have effected the object. Woe
tived without a division, and the Bill passed through as he has said, acquaint me with the apprehensions regard to the measure itself, that it was practicable,
the Committee.—Adjourned till Monday. he entertained, that the harvest of last year would was certain, and in the noith the larger potion 414
not be so productive as some persons imagined, and population lived upon no ether kind of .bread 'IA, -
that he did besides pledge himself to support with such as the Act he recommended wnuld.produce......•
his interest any measure Government might be din. His letters received that morning informed 11;.R1 that
posed to suggest, in consequence of the information wheat. had risen in the course of the week op less
he so conveyed to me. But I cannot help thinking, than thirty shillings per quarter. He gave nutice,
whatever may be the scantiness of the harvest of last that unless some circumstance should occar to alter
year, that there is no reason to fear any thing like a his resolution, he would on Monday mpve for a Colo
famine in the country ; and it appears to me neither mittee to inquire into the present causes of the hitte.
to be well founded nor to be consistent with the can- price of Grain.
dour I should have expected from the Hon. Gentle. ‘ Man MILITIA OFFICER& •
man, that he should accuse, as he has done, the Go. Sir J. NEWPORT wished to know how the 001.
vernment of supineness with regard to the agricul. cers rat the Irish Militia were to be released front the
tural interests of the country, with wkich he is so payment of the Property Tax S That tax was still
largely connected. Does he recollect the measure exacted from them, and they complained very homily .
which was, during the last Session, introduced by nee of the hardship.
into Parliament regarding the distilleries, and which, Mr. Secretary RYDER **plied, that means for
by the influence et the Honourable Gentleman and relieving the Irish Officers from the further operation
his friends, was rejected—(Hcar, hear, hear.) The of the tax were in progress, and that orders bad been
object of that Bill was to allow the distiller, when given to refund the sums which they had already paid.
grain should have risen to a certain pt ice, to employ Mr. W. POLE stated, that the case was as ful.
sugar in the production of spirits. Was this an in- lows ; lip to the present Fetid the tax had beer,
stance of that supineness of which today we are told, charged on the pay of these Officers, but from .chi;
or rather was it not an instance of a great anxiety on time the pay would be issued to them without any tax.
the part of Government to guard against circum. • OOLD CNN MILL.
stances like those now brought under the notice of ' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
the House ?—(Hear, hear.) With what wisdom it moved for the House 'lcing into a Committee oil t: e
was thrown out, acrd for what solid reasons, it is not Gold Coin Bill ; and on the question fur the Speaker
for me now to impeach, because Parliament has sane- leaving the Chair,
tioned the opposition given to it by its votes; and Mr. PARNELL proposed to postpone the Com.
yet in the very same year, and after this successful ' mittee for a fortnight, that an opportunity might be
resistance of the measure I proposed to remedy the . afforded for inquiring into the situation of the Coin.
evil, the Hon. Gentleman gave me to tinder :and, 'To chew the necessity of this inquiry, the Hon. Mem.
that he apprehended a scarcity. Although 1 was , ber read extracts from the Reason of a Committee
disposed to give every degree of credit to the infor.' appointed in 1804, to inquire into the State of the
:nation then afforded to me, (particularly receiving it Currency in Ireland, from %spelt it appeared that a:
from a quarter in which I was sure it would be re-; that period the circulating paper oh Ireland was in i
luctantly stated), yet I felt, after the determination state of . depreciation; and when he stated that
the House had come to that Session, that it would: amongst the names composing that C. mmittee, mete
be highly improper for Government again to at- those of Mr. Pitt, Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Rote, Mr.
tempt to intei fere. It will be recollected, likewise, Yerke, MoVansittart, and Mr.Tbointen, he thought
that it was by no means a conceded point at that : the House would be of opinion some credit ought to
time throughout the country that the harvest was so :' be attached to the Report. It had also been allow.
defective, and a measure pri posed and resisted was, , ed by the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, and
I thought, all that could be reasonably expected. I ' the Member for Sarum, (Mr. Vansittart), that the
trust, therefore, upon the charge of " Supineness," at ' paper of Ireland was flow depreciated ; and, if a
least, we shall stand completely acquitted—(Hear, comparison were made between the Irish paper not
hear.) The statement made yesterday, that the pro- ; the paper of this Country, the exchange wend be
ductton of two bushels of corn an acre throughout I and to be against Dublin 9.5 per ceno which was
the country would fully supply its necessities, might , seven per cent. more than it was in 1804. Noma&
perhaps be true, but I am at a loss to imagine how ; standing this, he understood the object and effect of
it is to be accomplished, unless the Hon. Gentleman : the present Bill would be to make Bank parer in Ire-
can prove that the bringing in of an Act of Praha- : land a legal tender. On these grounds, be thought'
meat would produce the miraculous effect of imme- ; the House would not object to the delay he eclat.
diately causing two bushels more to grow on every : for, to afford an opportunity for icquiring shether
acre of land—(A laugh.) And in thinking that it !or not the circumstances he had stated' were cornet;
would not, I do not apprehend that we ate justly and if they were so, to afford to the perple ref !re-
chargeable with supineness. 1 admit, that some be- ' land an opportunity to defend themselves, where their
nefit might perhaps be done by the suggestions and interests were so materially concerned. Heretofore
operations of vigorous and enlightened minds ; but it had not been the custom for the holders ot land is
the Act itself certainly could afford no remedy. As
,Ireland to pay in paper, but in specie; and if des
to what the Hon. Gentleman has flung out ou the measure were adopted, it would go to take near 50
subject of the Act of Parliament, the House will per cent. out of the landlord's pocket. It sould
not expect that at this moment I should be able to be attended with great injustice wherever any con.
give a decided opinion either one way or the other; tract existed.
but I appeal .to the experience of every Gentleman, Mr.JOHNSI ONE thought it could not bedenied
whether the advantage derived in 1501 from the Bill that Bankoesper was depreciated, and that that de-
then passed, if any, was not very inconsiderable 1 The predation was proved by there being two prices. He
1
impms•on upon my mind, and generally, I believe, thought no pence would deny that them were two
throughout the kingdom was, that more mischief than prices, or that a person might not get mom dear
good resulted from die interference of the Legisla. commodity for 100 guineas than for £lO5. no
ture on that occasion-4 Hear, hear, hear.) Discus- Bank also had acknowledged the depreciation, and
skins in Parliament, such as are now breuolit under fixed what that deprmiation was. by the issue of its
our notice, attempting to I over the price of human' no tokens, 'which really contained no more saw
food, defeat their own object ; and supposing any I than was formerly put into a half-crown piece. The
plan proposed were acceded to, it is hiuud equally Honoural•le Member observed, be was well aware
futile. The Act of the 41st of the King was baldly I bow tedious disciesions on this subject were, let be
passed, before it was discovered that its execution must entreat the patience of the House whilst Le
was utterly impossible. I therefore trust, that if we went as shortly as possible into a history of all Bean
have not now introduced a Bill, or appointed a Com- (i/ /aesh.)—The progress of all Banks bad ended in
mittee to inquire into the subject, the House will ra- bankruptcy to themselves, aid disgrace to the Stan;
ther attribute the neglect to a mistaken view with at least all Banks with which the State had interfeo
which we have been impressed, than asciitie it to in- ed, because Governmenti never repaid
what they
attention to our duty, or to supineness in promoting borrowed—( if 1440 j—without at the same tor
the welfare of the country—(Hear, hear.) It has asking a larger loan. The Honourable Member des
been truly said, that this is a question which can give went into a history or the Banks of Vence, Frost,
rise to no party feelings ; every man, whether his Austria, Stockholm, &c. in support of his assolicia
station be high or low, can have but one object, not in favour of State connection ; and ultimately entered
only from motives of humsnity and kindness, but into a detail of the rise and progress of the Beat's
from the most obvious motives of personal interest. Englawi, and particularly into its transaction mill
The measure usually adopted on such occasions was GoveninAnr, from the commencement of the war in
resorted to almost as soon as Parliament was conve- 1793, to 1797, at which time the repeated appfl"
ned. The consideration of Government has also tiuns from Government for assistance, reduced these
been directed to the distillation of spit its in Ireland, to such a situation as obliged them to seven ~d their
in order to decide whether the period be not arrived, cash payments. The Honourable Member deelsol
at which an attempt should be made to prohibit the his confidence in the Bane was such, as induced his
use of grain, but they have been convinced of this, that to believe, that were they left to themselves they
unless there be in that island a strong and universal i would diminish their paper circulation till their oriel
sense that the measure is absolutely necessary, it would were of the value they purported to be. But the id
be a vain attempt, and the economical regular stills was, Government would not afford them a diet
would be prevented from working, and the wasteful of doing so, and he foresaw they would be corpal.
mode by private and illicit distillation would be sub- to continue in. the course in which they at present
stituted. The diminntionof therevenue, I admit, ought `were. He considered the depreciaion of ow cut"
not for a moment to be put in competition with the rency as beiag chiefly occasioned by the loan of three
i
general comfort and support of the people, yet the na- millions, which the public had obtained from oe
Ison would thus be doubly pressed, in the first place . Bank ; and he recommended the repayment of t.O
by the deprivation of grain, and in the next by del-al..sum as soon as possible.
cation in the revenue. The real question to be de- I Sir JOHN NEWPORT declared this to be a Mg°.
tided ii, Welter by ado' t rig the measure, any relief sure as revolutionary as any passed in the reign Li
would be afforded ? The Honourable Gentleman IRobespierre• Its operation in Ireland wool!'
__,'
has not communicated to me a single idea with which grievous and unjust. It would be robbing the Unlw__
my mind has not been long deeply impressed, and if • lords for the benefit of the tenants. And ibis il
he could suggest a measure which would be really done without making any enquiry into the sure
is
effectual, nothing will give me greater pleasure than.. Ireland. The depreciation of paper in Irelandw •
to support it. lam persuaded that he now intro. at the rate of ss. 6d. in every guinea. A Nile lA,
'
duced the subject with the most generous and patri- :bad presented a Petition from some persons Psuri
bj
otic feeling, but I would advise him well to weigh, Au to be resident in a county out of which be la"
ere
the yr:Wheal effects which have been produced on . been driven at an election ; and on this Petirl'. -o,i
f°rener beassiotts by the 'mere. statemeot pf kbegretica f founded a measure that went to over th=ll*
TIP
caldsketiosts„,'. • • System on which rested the propertj of
.

:,.ii..