Star.
London, England, 1830-07-01 00:00:00

X MG'S =SLUM

On the motion of the Duke of WELLINGTON, the Clerk of
the House read the King's Message, which was delivered yesterday.
The noble duke said it was now his duty to call their lotolsbips' at-
tention to those parts of the King's Speech to which he bad not ad-
verted yesterday. It was the former law of the land that parliament
expired with the demise of the crown, but by the 6th of Queen
Anne it is made lawful for parliament to sit six months after the
demise of the crown, if the reigning monarch so permitted. It was
the advice of the king's confidential servants that it was not expe-
dient to introduce into patliantent any more business, and it was
quite clear by the voles of the other house, that the business before
parliament could not be concluded within a reasonable time. There
existed, he knew, a considerable anxiety throughout the country,
that a general re-election ought to take place ; and now that it was
determined to close the sessions of parliament, he thought the most
advisable course was to postpone the consideration of all public bu-
siness, except the estimates, and a suitable provision for the Royal
Family, and more particularly the Queen. The noble duke then
moved an address, which was an echo of the King's Speech, except
the omission of that part which was adverted to in the Address of
yesterday.
Earl GREY thought the course taken a most novel one, and the
more particularly as the address was accompanied by such a meagre
statement just made by the noble duke. He was free to admit,
when there existed in the country a strong desire to have a new par.
liniment, that such ought generally to be complied with, unless
some inconvenience arose from such compliance, and the only ques-
tion was, whether greats, benefit would arise from a dissolution or
from the completion of public business? It seemed to him most
inconvenient that the measures recommended from the throne at the
beginning should be left unfinished, and to confide to ministers who
left such business unfinished the whole management of the affairs
of the country. The fact was, that ministers wished to get rid of
their own measures, which met with so much dissatisfaction
throughout the country.—(Hear, hear) This late period of the
year was most inconvenient to part from public business; and it
the history of the country he believed no such circumstance oc.
curved at a similar time of' the year. His objection was not to
go into the consideration of the civil list ; but to trust the con-
sideration of the estimates to ministers was what he could not

consent to. Here the noble lord went into a history of the pro-
ceedings which took place at the death of Queen Anne, and her
three successors. What he thought ought to be done was to pro-
ceed with the important portion of the public business, and then, if
a temporary provision were necessary, he should have no objection ;
but he did not think the interests of the country required an im-
mediate dissolution of parliament. The address had coma
upon him so suddenly, that he wished for h!mself, and he might
say for other peers, a farther time to consider such important mat-
ter, when the house would have time to consider in what manner
best to convey to his Majesty their deliberate opinions. He had the
fullest confidence in his Majesty's attachment to his people and their
interests, but he did not wish to be understood as bestowing the
same confidence in his Majesty's Ministers. He had the fullest
hope that his Majesty's life would last long, and his habits of rep-
Wily led him the more confidently to hope it t but not knowing
when the stroke of death might conic, he thought it the duty of
Parliament to provide against the possibility of the government falling
suddenly into the hands of a minor. Any proceedings in this way
ought to be conducted with the greatest delicacy and consideration to
bis Majesty. ft was well known that the law knew no minority in
the Crown, and there was a possibility of anarchy and confusion
arising out of the circumstance of the Crown falling on a minor :
and he thought his Majesty had too much good sense not to see the
necessity of guarding against such an emergency t but as this was
a subject of great importance, be wished further time for considera-
tion, and he therefore moved that the further consideration of the'
Address be postponed for one day.
The Amendment being put from the woolsack,

Lord HA R ROW BY agreed in a great part of what had fallen from
the r.ohle Earl, and could see no objection to a postponement of the
debate, in order to give time for further deliberation, but he thereby
did not wish to be understood as thinking the consideration of such a
subject as a Regency could well take place during the remainder of
the present session. It was one that could be better disposed of in
another Parliament, but he thought it one that required to be dis-
cussed shortly, and he thought the possible guardianship of the
heiress to the throne ought to be committed to some natural guar-
dian, but subject to such limitations as the welfare of the country
and the dignity of the crown required.
The Earl of WINCH ILSEA said, he entirely disapproved of
• dissolution of Parliament In the present state of public business,
and he also thought they ought not to separate without providing
fur the future contingescies of the crown ; and this he said without
yielding to any man in loyalty and attachment to his Sovereign.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said the question before them
was one purely of expediency, and he put it to their lordships whe.
then it wits possible to finish the business before Parliament; but
when he reflected upon the other new topics which had been introduced
in the debate, it appeased still more certain that a new Parliament
was necessary to dispose of such important matters. There was no
analogy between the present time and the year 1820. At the for-
mer period, when the King died, the civil list had been previously
discussed for live weeks, and was matured for decision. As to the
question of regency, nothing of the kind was thought of at the birth
of the late Prince of %Vales, for three or four years after his birth.
nor did he see any pressing emergency at the present moment. It
was better to wait—s Parliament had uniformly waited, until a
prospect of danger rendered it necessary. Parliament would al-
ways be ready to provide for any such inconvenience when it should
arise. _ _

GODERICH supported the amendment of the noble earl.
Ti the business were kft in its present state, it would lead the
country into a situation of inexplicable confusion, and would throw
the country into an abyss from which the noble duke could never
extricate her. The last topic touched upon was one upon which he
did not like to dwell ; but he must say that there was no analogy
between the present time and the beginning for the reign of George
the Third. That monarch had a narrow escape of his life ; and on
his recovery, he, feeling for the interests of his people, recommended
to Parliament to provide for any emergency that alight occur,
hut that circumstance was not now an argument for delay,
but showed the great necessity of guarding against any accident ur
d s tiger.
The Earl of ELDON supported the amendment of the noble earl,
but not front any apprehension of the result of an immediate elec-
tion. Nothing he wished more than to see the people of England
put to the test, and called upon to decide by their acts what they
had already decided by their words. (Hear, hear, hear.) He
thought that nothing was advanced in favour of an immediate disso.
lution. As toithe question of Regency, it was one that:always excited
alarm ; but for his own part, if he were prime minister, nothing he
would wish for more than an infant King. fo.;uch a King might be
seated on the throne, but he would scarcely be seen by their Lord.
ships through the integument that covered the head of the Lord
Chancellor. Some provision should be made for such an event, but
he should like to see any suggestion or proposition on this subj:ct
emanate from the throne.
Lord ELIARNBOROITOH said it could not be dolled that the
late melancholy event had plunged the country in a state of great
difficulty, but be could not expect this subject treated, a he hoped
for the last time, in a tote of jocularity. It was the business of
the house calmly to consider the difficulties which existed. It had
been said that the present Parliament had done little or nothing,
and if that was the ease, was it likely that their sitting now
would expedite public business ? This he thought was in itself a
sufficient argument fors speedy dissolution. It is said, that on a
former occasion, the civil list alone took up five weeks discussion,
but there was a great deal of other business to be done, not to say
anything of that moat important sad delicate subject of a Regency :
all of Which could be better discussed at a future period. The ad-
dress to the house cost the cabinet much of serious deliberation, and
he was new more convinced in his life than that they were right in
the eondossisa to which they bad come. He could not help es.
relds t at hearing the noble earl opposite (Grey) state
.:11., in his map ty's ministers.—( Hear, hear, from
the oppeeides.) let as such a WM entertained, he was
ghl to hiss it frankly avowed.—(Cheers, and cries of hear, hug,
INN the opposition.) And be wee ewe that ministers, by prrfireas.

lag their duty faithfully to their king and cowry, had no fear, even
of the noble earl's unexpected opposition.
The Duke of RICHMOND said he should not have then but
for the allusion which had been made to him by the Noble
Baron Ellenborough, to his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord
Eldon.) It was strange that he should have ventured any such at-
tack, or that he should have dared to question that high character,
who was admired by the whole country—(great cheers); and one
at least as high as that of the noble baron.—(Cheers.) As to what
he had said respecting the noble cad (Grey,) the noble baron
would probably hear of it in reply ; sad in all probability rue
the day that he made any such attack. Ministers were afraid
of the present House of Commons, and wanted another, but lie
hoped they would not separate without settling the question
regency.—{Cheers.)
Lord ELLENBOROUGH explained, and disclaimed ever hay.
ing said anything disrespectful of his noble friend (Lord Eldon),
for whom be entertained an hereditary respect.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the most extrrordinary
conduct for tranquillizing the people was that of abandoning them
in their diffleuties. It was the bounden duty of parliament to sit,
and make provisions for any possible emergency that might occur.
The argument against continuing parliament was, that the subjects
to be treated were of the most momentous nature. Now he thought
their magnitude was what called for deliberation and decision.
Hasty dissolutions were violations of those laws which gave the
people protection in the continuance of parliament for six months
after the demise of the crown. But whatever might be the ultimate
decision of the house, he could not see on what ground a delay of
twenty-four bouts could be refused. He could not at all events make
hinislf a party to a hasty dissolution. He should therefore support
the amendment.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not vote for the mo.
don of the noble duke. The topics in the address were too various
and too intricate for quick legislation. He could not help con-
demning the personal allusions which had been made to his noble
friend (Lord Eldon) a character than whom no man in England
stood on a higher pinnacle. As to the credit claimed for the present
Cabinet, on the score of the Catholic question, it should be recol-
lected that that measure had long been matured before they came
into office, and they reaped the harvest of seed which had been sown
before them. lie thought Ministers were indiscreetly hastening
their opinions through the House. Such haste was unworthy
the Hulce of Wellington. lie supported the amendment.
The Marquis of 13UTE thought it impossible that the present
Parliament could get through the business before them in any rea-
sonable tune, and the other great topics of national interest required
too much deliberation for a short semis's of Parliament. Possible
difficulties had been spoken of, but he did not entertain an idea that
any risk of public tranquillity could arise, even in such an event.
Ile was sure that an appeal to the country would be favourable to
the present Ministry.
Earl CARNARVON did not think the Ministers had the eon-
fidence of the country, or that they had even confidence in them.
selves. He was willing all other measures should stand over but
that of providing for the eventual demise of the Crown, and he felt
called upon to support the amendment. He had no hostile feeling
to the noble duke opposite, but he did not like to see him run
away, from his own measures, under which his Ministry were
likely to sink, if the present Parliament was allowed to exist.
The Earl of WICKLOW said he thought the amendment was
nothing but a trap to catch a few votes, and he was perfectly satis-
fied that the measures of the Government were wise and necessary.
The Earl of HARE WOOD would support the Government, as
he thought the first act of the House on the accession of a King
ought not to be one of hostility, unless upon very strong grounds;
and he should continue to support Ministers as long as they de-
served it, and no longer.
The Earl of RADNOR did not think the noble earl who had
spoken last had assigned very constitutional reasons for his vote,
although his reasons might be very satisfactory to himself. He
did not see why the first message front the crown should not be
treated like any other such measure, which was always considered as
emanating from the ministers. One thing he wished to remind the
hone, that no one great measure of the ministers had been passed
this session, and not one of the promises held out in the king's
speech had been realized.
Earl MANSFIELD said, in opposing the measure of ministers,
he was guided by no party feeling. He had not formed any coalL
don, nor did he know of any coalition, but he was opposed to mi-
nisten because he had no confidence in them. He did not deny the
perfect right ofhis Majesty to dissolve Parliament, but both Houses
of Parliament had a nght to give or refuse a concurrence to that
opinion, and he for one did not concur in the expediency of &mole-
lug Parliament at once. All agreed in supporting the dignity and
splendour of the Crown, which was in fact the object of the civil
list. The King was interested in parts of these. lists, and his ad.
vines in other parts of them, hence the jealousy that existed respect-
ing them. But the humblest person in the kingdom must know
that the splendour of the Crown Is not supported altogether for the
satisfaction of the Sovereign, but also for the comfort of the people.
When the retiring Members again besought the support of their
constituents, they might, and no doubt would, be asked what they
had done, and how they had exercised the trusts reposed in them,
so as to deserve being reinstated in their places? The grounds
on which they had supported Ministers, in all their variations,
would likewise be called for. The conduct of Ministers might
be described in the language of Doctor Parr, as oscillating
and vascillating, between two extremes. The first adopting one set
of measures, but 'Jon arriving at a convictioo of their insufficiency,
they abandoned them for a second, which were in direct repugnance
with the tint. Those members would also be required to state what
had been their conduct when the great question of emancipation was
before the house last year, and whether they had persisted in their
original opinion, that the safety of the Protestant Constitution de-
manded the exclusion of catholic& It might, however, be said
that they believed successful deception was n ; and that on
that ground the positive and unblushing dereliction of duty
might be palliated. It would also be a subject of inquiry, whe-
ther they had supported those bills for taxes, and whether, contrary
to their own knowledge, they had not persisted in denying the exist.
ence of distress. Their lordships were required to give authority
for meeting the existing difficulties ; but upon what grounds were
they to proceed ? Credit proceeded upon confidence; and what
confidence could be placed in Minister ? It was clear that it was
necessary to make some temporary provision for any misfortune that
might arise, and the proposal was, whether their lordships ought
not to adjourn to take that matter into their consideration ? There
were circumstances of difficulty which might place the advisers
his Majesty in some danger, but then there seldom was a time that'
an adviser could not be found who was bold enough to 'mince his
own conversation. To leave the country therefore in its present state
could not be suffered. and lie should accordingly vote for the ad.
journment. in order that the necessary provision might be made.
Lord WHARNCLI FFE said that this was in his opinion a great
constitutional question, and oo less than whether the country was to
be left without any government at all ? He should therefore vote
for en adjournment.
The Duke of BUCKINGHAM said that the question for theft
lordship. was, whether a delay of twenty-four hours would relieve
the case of its difficulty ? The crown had declared its intention to
exercise its prengutive, and as nothing could be obtained by delay,
he should agree to the motion of his noble friend.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said that it was not his intention
to discuss the question to which the noble earl had referred, and
however he might rerort the lose of the conlideeee of the noble earl.
he (the duke) could only say that if he had to deal with the sane
question over attain, he would adopt identically the sante steps.—
The question was not a balance of nessures, as it had been repre-
sented, but a balance of inconvenience, conneced with distant and
remote risk, depending on the suite o the Hoye' Family ; and the
tnost advisable course to be adopted was to bring the Parliament to
an immediate dissolution. It is quite a tidsteke to suppose that
, the whole arrangements could be 4 tiectral by a short Bill, or that
, the difficulties could be obviates: by a temporary measure ? it was
quite impoesible to deal with these mattes% under existing circunt.
, stances, and the business of the Session had been so heavy, that
they had been arable to bring it too conclusion at that moment.—
I The noble earl had been pleased to say that Government wished
to throw the responsibility of Mak conduct upon Parliament, which,
however, was not the fact. Government had no such inten-
tion ; and the words of the Address could bear no such in-
terpretation. All that government had done was to bring down a
message from the king, ageing that his majesty desire° to dissolve
the parliament, and requiring their lordships to enable him to carry
. his intention into effect. This was the art of the king and council.
I The noble anti learned lord (Eldon) had said that the course in-
tended to be pursued amounted to a disapproval of the Acts
t William and Anne ; but be (the Duke of Wellington) would inform
the noble and learned lord, that it was those very acts which moho-
i rind the recommendation of the proposed measures. He (the Duke
of Wellington) could not question the motive of the noble earl in
1 proposing the adjournment, but he would say that he hoped their
hardships would come to a decision on the question that night.
I Earl GREY Paid that he had been misunderstood if it was sup-
, posed that there was no other question but that of regency. Theft
were other questions, but that he thought was the meet important,
t and could not be neglected by the house without a dereliction ,
t duty. He was charged with promulgating gloomy anticipations,
, but when the illness, temper, and habits of his Majesty, and the
uthenceitalouta humanofltwas u
plidfeerwanereapprehmienconsiderod, dasetsathelierit must fill faisadi.
1
the faculties that it would Involve the swamp Is, ea which b
motion was founded. He bad been accused it basMg stated that
his Majesty's ministers were incapable of aseireeleg the allies
the state, and although me some occasions Its bed gives the
erotica his an be repeated that to be Ids spiders, sad
to all that passed since the last year. Ifs adds seal that
vested to some expressions which had Mem Am a sable balsa
posits, and esachteled by saying II•at, as NSW as the home
resams, be mesas so move an aniewhaset in she Mimes

rte..,_