Star.
London, England, 1805-06-20 00:00:00

DUKE OT•ATHOL'S CLAIMS.

Colonel STANLEY moved the further cmfidera-
(ion of the Report of the Committee on the Duke of
Athol's Clislms to further compenfation for the lots
of his rights in the He of Man.
Mr. FRANKLAND declared that he entertained
pelf:mall), as high a degree of roll:fed for that Noble
Perfon.ige as he believed could be entertained for him
by any other person in that houfe. In a fpeech of con-
fiderahle length, however, he Rated it to be his opi-
nion, that the compenfation already made wks more
tharraclequate to any pecuniary lots which his Grace
.the Duke:of Athol had fußained in confequence pf
the bargahi of 1765. Neverthelcfs he was aware)

' that, to a high mind, no Aim of money was fulreci
ent to compenfate the lois of fuch high honour as
that which was facrificed by the furrender of the fo
vvreignty of the lfle of Man. He thought the Cub-
jed to be too executive to be fully invelligated this
Seffion, and fuegtfted the propriety of bringing in
the ufual periodical Bill relative to the Ifland for the
prefent, with an underftanding that the fubjed lhould
be brought forward at an early period in next Seffion,
land alth with a view of giving a full hearing to all
the parties interefled in the cafe.
Mr. ROSE maintained that the Revenues of the
Ifland had increafed to fuch an extent that it was but
an alt of Mice that the Houfe Ihould confider the
propriety of making fuitable compenfation to that
Noble Family, which' had been forced to give up
their right to the Sovereignty, and by such contrad
had fuasined a molt incalculable lois.
Sir W. GEARY argued, That the Noble Duke
had no right to go back to the feudal revenue of the
Bland, nor to found any claims on its increafed re-
venut from its conneCtion with Great Britain. That
increafed revenue was owing chiefly to the titheries,
and the (*need's and profperity of the fisheries was to
be attributed to the bounties and drawbacks from
this country. Should it be thought necelfary to give
any thing to the Noble Duke, he would not give it
under the name of compenfation where no farther
compenfation was due, nor from the revenue of that
Ifland, which in his opinion owed him nothing, but
from the public pserre of the country
Sir WILLIAM YOUNG oppoled 'he cl tim of
the Noble Duke, on the grounds that the compenfa-
don of 70,0001. ought to deemed conclufive in the
year 1765. That the Noble Duke had no right to
go back to the old revenues, and compare them
with eke prefent, becaufe tie increafe in that rape&
was owing to the foflering care of this Country,
by our Laws, Liberties, and Conflitution having
been extended to the inhabitants of the Ifle of Man,
from which the whole of its profperity had arifen,
and much of the produce of that revenue arote
from duty impeded on Great Britain on the herring
fishery, of which trade he entered into the particu-
lars. After all, he obferred, that the revenue of the
Ile of Man was only s 1,6831. out of which there
were difburfements to be deduCted to no Ids an
amount than 10,9421. leaving a furplus of leis than
spool. The whole population of the ifland was 32,000,
of which there were goon seamen, and therefore
care lhould be taken to sio nothing that might utter
the fy Item, by which the State might lore any part
of that Ilrength. They were once chiefly smugglers,
and by the regulations which took place after the
agreement in 1765 they were driven out of fmng-
gling into there Melia : and if this policy be altered,
they may be driven back again from the fisheries to
smuggling.
Mr. DAVIES GIDDY did not thin': the Noble
Duke entitled to any compenfation for dignity, or
for that part of the revenue of the Ifland which tee-
ceffarily went to the fupport of its Government, and
therefore oppofed the Houfe going into the Com-
mittee.

Mr. KINNAIRD contended that the compenfa-
tiou in quellion would lead to no additional burden
on the people of the Ifle of Man. The claim the No-
ble Duke had was on this country, and not on the
Ifle of Man, as his Sovereignty over that Mind had
been refigned to this country. In regard to the fur-
plus revenue, he thought the Duke, as Reigning
Chief, had a right to claim it, as having been tole
Lccriflator of the Bland.
Mr. JOHNSTONE Rated, that he had perufed
Frafer on the Fifherics, and was of opinion with that
author, that the profperity and fuccefs of, he Ifle of
Man was owing to the remittance of the Salt duties,
and the bounties allowed by this country on the ex-
portation of &h. He thought that the Houle not
having gone into the particulars of the fubjeit, were
not qualified to decide on the whole cafe.

M. ROSE explained.
' Mr. HARRISON was averfe to the granting any
Thing further by way of com2enfation to the Noble
Duke, on the ground that it had beee fettled forty
years ago, and that the opinions of the Law Officers
of the Crown w4re decidedly againa the claim of the
Noble Duke.

Lord HENNIKER thought the Houfe had a
right at all times to correa errors as they appeared,
let them be of ever fo long 'landing ;_and under all
the circumillnces, he in his confcience think the
Duke of Athol entitled to compenfation ; as to the
amount, that was a matter to be fettled by the Com-
mittee.

Mr. R. WILLIAMS was decidedly againa any
further compenfation whatever.
Mr. WINDHAM wilhed to record his fentiments
upon this fuhjelt. The burthen of proof was on
Ore who fuppor•ted this claim. He contended that
there was no compulfion upon the Duke of Athol to
affent to the terms he agreed to in the year 1763. Not
a word was heard againtt this bargain for twenty-
Ove years together—therefore there was no prefump-
tion that it was improperly made. It was Paid, that
if the Doke of Athol had not taken what was offered
to him by Government, he fhould have had nothing;
true, but then be would have had his elate, for he
was not bound to part from it, as the Proprietors of
elates, houfes, &c. are obliged to do in the cafe of
every Road or Canal Bill, your wet docki and the
like, where the Commiffioners raid we mutt have
your property at all events, and you (hall have for it
only what we offer, or what a Jury will give yotr,
but the property you l►all not keep. The Noble
Duke might have kept his; there was therefore no
compulfion. He did not fay the fum given was
equivalent for the regalities and honours which be.
longed to the Duke of Athol, hut if he chute►! to bar-
ter them for money, he thould not afterwards fix a
higher pecuniary value on them. That money was
the object was clear, for the Noble Duke did not fay
give back my titles and my honouts, but give more
money, therefore he did nor fs: that the Houfe ought
to feel any fympathy with the Noble Duke for the
arigtocracy of this cafe, for it was a mere queilion of
pecuniary confideration, and as to the value of the
revenues of the Ile of Man, the anfwer was, that the
profperity of the ifland was what Parliament itfelf had
created by its laws and regulations, and now it was
a(ked of Parliament to grant to the Duke of Athol a
fum of money on account of the profperity which
they had themfelves procured to the country. He
contidered the opinion of the Attorney-General, as
given in the report of that Learned Gentleman, as
of great weight in this cafe, as hoiwo to ;be claim of

the Noble Duke I it rnefl be taken that the Le•ii r•
Gentleman retained that opinion, at lean the I !.
had time reafon to lament he did not attcld t • .
port his former opinion, or to anty•unce,
tion. He thought that if Ibis claim was a:!,:: •,
there would be no end cf applications to PaHank. ;
on this fubjed, hecaufe the principle would be
bifhed, that the Duke of Athol's family had a
to compenfation in proportion as tire profperity
the Ifle of Man increafed, fo it would be for crcr
growing with our growth, Rrengtitening with cur
ttrength. He related a dory of a man and a cat no
at each end of a rope, and thrown into the watt,,
and it was faid that the aserlion of the cat to that
element was Inch, that her exertions being proper.
tionate to her arerfion, fhe kept herfelf above it, and
the man below it. In the prefent cafe, the averlion
of one party to what was called a bad bargain word;
create extraordinary exertion, nor could there he
wanting fome aiUdants for that purpofe, fo that the
Ilronger body of the two lbould be kept under, aral
drawn through the water. He did not fay, or men
to infinnate that this matter appeared to thole wle,
cupported it as a job; if it did, they would not foe.
port it, he was altured; but it bad that apptaracc:
to him.

Mr. SHERIDAN laid he had liftened oith atten-
tion to his friends who had oppofed the claim of the
Duke of Athol, under Tome apprehending they nilklit
change his opinion upon that fubjett ; but indeed of
doing.fo, they had each in his turn confirmed him
in that opinion. He did not think his Right How
Friend (Mr.. Windham) had enriched his fpeech tc-
night, fo much as he ufually did, by lively tallies of
wit and Sprightly eloquence. He did not think much
of the Rory of the cat tied at one end of the rope,
and the man at the other, unlefs for the mere pun Gil
the Me of Man ; it reminded him, however, of the
exertions of his Honourable Friends with regard
to their pulling at the end of the rope againli the
claim Of the Noble Duke, for it certainty was " a
long pull, a ftrong pull, and a pull all together."—
He indeed, from the manner itt which his
Hon. Friends had oppofed this claim, that they had
not given themfelves the trouble of reading it, whica
reminded him of what a Learned Friend of his, who
was once Attorney Genefal, although he ufually
voted on the oppofition fide at the Houle (the late
Mr. Lee, we rrefume) who had fpoken to him of the
peace after the American War, and reprobated it in
the molt fevere manner. " What do you think of
the 7th Article ?" " Have you read that?" laid I.
laid he, Ido not think that any part of it
is fit to be read." So here his Honourable Friends
did think the claim of the Duke of Athol was not
fit to be read, otherwife it was to him manifetl they
•would not oppofe it as thy did. He confidered the
letters of Mr. Hammerflay, and of the late Duke of
Athol as couclufive evidence that 70,000 i. W=as not
then confidered as a fulficient eompenfation. In his
letter to Lord Mansfield, requefling his LordOsip's
advice, he fent a detailed Climate of the lofts at
620,0001. It could-apt be prefumed that he would
have fent filch eftimate, if it had been evidently and
molt ridieuloully over the value. Neither did LUrd
Mansfield appear to confider it fo. As to the value
of the Royalties, it limpid be recollected at what a
very high rate the heritable jurifdii%ons in Scotland
were porchafed up. Near t eo,oool. had been given
to purchafe that which in income does not exceed
Soot. per ann. and at that time the Duke of Argyle
received 21,ci001. for What did not really bring in
money more than 281. per. ann, The Duke had not
let his claims fleep in Pence, but bad urged diem to
Parliament in feveral bills that had been prepofed
finee the revelment. Upon the whole, Co far from
confidering it to be, as fume Gentlemen termed it,
an infamous and fcandalotis job, he confidered it a
claim that reflect' on Uri& juflice, and was fupportcd
by the cleareft evidence : he therefore felt it his duty,
as a Member of that Hciufe, to fupport it.
Mr. WILBERFORCE begged the Houfe feri-
oufly to confider that the prefent demand Was oot fn
much upon the revenues of the Id: of Man, as upon
the confolidated fund of Great Britain and the mo-
ney of their conflituents. He ridiculed the ellimate of
620,0001. fent in by the lace Dtike Of Athol, and laid
it would Teem as if his Grace had confidered the ri-
ve, eignty Of the lfle of Man as Something, neatly equi-
valent iu value to the Crown of Poland. which was
efiimated at a million in the following hoes,
" The Crown of Poland, venal twice an age,
" To juli a million flints the modelt gage:
He then read extrats of letters horn both the Duke
and Docile& of Athol (the Duchefs being the heirers
of the ifland) in which they both confider 70,00c1.
as a full equivalent fur what they were going to lore.
He pofitively denieti that any Committee had as yet
reported in favour of the Doke's claim, and he
thought if it was now granted it would be a preec-
dent to that family to come again at a locum am,,
and demand dill farther compenfation.
Mr. BARHAM thought it extremely imp: oper to
give the name of an infamous job to a meadoe that
any coufiderable number of Members in that Houle
might think it their duty to fupport. If even the
charge was confittent with truth, it was language
not confiflent with good manners. He then entered
at fame length into the corifideration of the claim of
his Grace, which he lirongly Supported.
The, queftion was then loudly called for, and the
Houfe came to a divifion on the fu'ij..Et, when the
numbers appeared to be—Ayes 95—Noes 38—Ma-
joritty for the Committee 57.
The Houle then went into a Committee, who r:
ported progrels, and had leave to fit again.

MESSAGE F NOM TUE KING.
• burin,- our exclulion from the Gallery, we learn-
that „
wI r. PITT brought down a Mefrage from hit
Majefty, on the confidential interenurfe and cm:c.c•
tion between him and the Emperor of Rtifiia. '1'111;
Meff.ge was preeifely (imam- to that delivered ir. the
Houle of L9rds by Lord HAWKLSBVRY.
Mr. FOX made fame remarks on the Meffage, as
anticipating the motion of his Hon. Friend Mr.Greys
on the State of the Nation. He %%Abed much for
further explanation, as the Meffage itfelf Wao vague
and unfatisfaelory.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER e-
plied, that to-morrow would throw conflfilciale light
upon the tubjeet in general ; he meant that point At.
luded to by the Hon. Gentleman—the Stare of il:e
Nation. In the mean time, however, he Mould
move, that his Majelty's Meffage be taken into con-
fidcration on Friday next. To this the .1-loufe afferio
ed, and adjourned at one o'clock.

irk ICE 0
Cosfols, 1

The foll
la night I
by Mr. Pr
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Groacu

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lead to a ten
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This in
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this day it
of the Nat
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RYSTORT

The ref
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difcreditec
receipt of
time, date
geared 114
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founded
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that octal
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Do the
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Lord Sin
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and chara.
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SIDDIOUTF
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beaten on
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LONDON.

THUESDAY, JUNE so

pa teE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONR O'CLOCK s
Confols, for opg. 5911—Reduced 58ff-of:whim. 31 4.
Lulu+ 13111 s, p4r Is. pron.

T:iz following Meff.ige from 11111 MAJIISTT was
laft night brought down to the Houle of Commons
by Mr. Prrr. A limilar one was delivered to the
Houle of Lords by Lord HAWKESDURY:
GtORGE REX,

His Majefty thinks proper to acquaint the Houfe of Comhions.
that the communications which have taken place, and are Rill de-
rnding between his Majefty and tome of the Powers of the Con.
nowt, have not yet been brought to fuch a point as to enable his
Majelly to lay the refult of them before the Houle, or to enter into
any farther explanation with the French Government, confiftently
with the fentiments expreffed by his Majefty at the opening of the
prefent Seffinn. But his Majefty conceives, that it may be of ef-
fential importance, that he thould have it in his power to avail
hirnfelf of any favourable conjuncture for giving died to fuch a
concert with other Powers, as may afford the heft means of refitt-
ing the inordinate ambition of France, and may be molt likely to
lead to a termination of the prefeot conteft on grounds confiftent
with the permanent l4fety and ;nterefts of his Majefty's domini-
on, and the fecurity and independence of Europe. His Majefly
thLictore recommends it to the Houle of Commons to confider of
111:::17g rrovift.o for enabling his Majefty to take fuch meafuresi
and ci.t;" into loch engagements as the exigencies of affairs may
require. G. R.

As a 161,54 for Ruffia was provided for fome time
ago, it may be inferred, that Minifler: entertain hopes
of fome other Powers taking a part in the war, fhould
the prefoit intercourfe for a pacification prove fruit-
kfi, as is generally expeeted.
This interelling Communication may in fome de-
gree affeCt the nature and tendency of the Motion
this day in both Houfes of Parliament on the State
of the Nation. Mr. Gaut is to move the confidera-
tion of it in the Houfe of Commons, and Lord CA-
RYSFORT in the Houfe of Peers.

The reported capture of Jamaicr, which we men-
tioned yefterday, is, we are happy to fay, generally
difcredited. It caufed a little unedinefs on the flrfl
receipt of the intelligence ; but from a comparifon of
time, dates, and other circnmftances, the news ap-
peared highly improbable. The report from Phila-
delphia, inilead of corroborating, was probably
founded on the article in the New York Paper of
loth May, which relied on the authority of an Ame-
rican Captain.
Admiral DACRES has a fleet of 11 !hips on the Ja-
maica Itation, which would prevent the poflibility of
any French Commander being able to fay, *au, vicfi,

via.

We yefterday received American prrpers to the tgth
tilt. They contain fome interaing details of a fa&
known before, namely, the defeat of the Haytian or
black army before the city of St. Domingo, and their
expulgon from the Spanith part 'of the ifland.

Reports firnilar to what were induftrioufly circa-
laced forte months ego, and which turned out exaely
as we then Ilated they would, are again beginning
to make their appearance in feint of the daily Papers.
If we are to credit the infatuations that are given, Mr.
PITT and Lord Smstourn's friends are at complete
variance, and the former is paying court to the Op-
portion ! ! On what ground does this reft
SIDNOUTH'S friends forfooth did not vote with Mini-
Rry on the quellion relpefting Lord MELvitta, and
therefore they cannot pollibly continue to aft toge-
ther. Indeed I Did Oppofitinn vote with them on
that occafion ? How then can they be brought to ail
together.
Do the propagators of !itch rumours imagine there
high chara4ters are as void of confittency as them-
fares ? Could Mr. PITT ever exped or defire that
Lord SIDMOUTH, under whole adrniniftration the
Commiffioners of Naval Enquiry were appointed,
fhould a I otherwife than he has done on the prefent
occation ? Were principle, propriety, contitiency,
and charaaer all to be facrificed 1 Who in their
fenfes that know any thing of Lord SIn*OVTH could
expel this ?

A fare colour has been given to the whole burl.
nets, and it is eafy to fee the objeet.—lt is laid Lord
SIDMOUTH% Friends joined Oppofition againft Mini-
Bus. Now what is the fail—they refilled the Oppo-
fition on the quettion of Impeachment, becaufe the
ends of juttice app:.ared to them attainable by means•
lets expentive to the nation, and lets ruinous to Lc,
Ms tv ; and, by their efforts, the Oppofition were
beaten on that point. They propofed a middle courfe,
and on that quellion the Oppofition voted with them. 1
We cannot bring onrrelves to believe, that Mr.
Pivr would commit his charaeler with the nation on
fach a ground as this, hf,,wever injudicious tome of
his fliAds .lay be, and therefore we confider theft
rumours as entitled to very little credit.
It is really melancholy to obferve the alma uni-
v2rfaliy prevailing difpcifiaion, to attribute the can-
dud of public men on all oecations, to felfith motives
and political confideratious. This praftice is perhaps
more to be lamented than wondered at. But it teems
not a little hard that it fhould be applied to the late
conduit of Lord SIDMOUTH and his fiicnds, on a
omftion which was not properly a political one, which
fome have attributed to refentment againft the Mi-
Lifler ; others to a love of importance, others to po-
litical intrigue ; but which appears to us in common,
•se believe, with the public at large, to have been
'imply the relish of confcientio us opinion, and a bong
:41.fe of public duty.