Star.
London, England, 1823-03-04 00:00:00

Resolutions proposed by him last Session, pointing
!out the inefficiency of the relief to the country which
l could be expected from the operation of a Sinking
Fond of 55000,0001. and sheaving that it would be
the wisest course to let the whole sum go at mice to
the remission of taxes, and depend upon the resources
of the country, which would thereby be much im-
I proved, in case of any future emergency. He now
begged to reiterate the same sentiments, and he trusted
the House would go along with him in thinking it
absurd to be paying with one hand and borrowing
with the oilier; but if they did not concur with him
in this, he hoped they would not consent to the plan'
of allowing the whole of the 3,000,0001. of Sinking
Fund to remain.
Mr. BARING was anxious to offer a few observa-
tions in reference to what bad fallen from his lion.
Friend, the Member for Aberdeen. He was most
ready to agree with his Hon. Friend in all he bad
said about the fallacy of the Sinking Fund, as it had.
been exhibited in amount by the late Chancellor of
the Exchequer; but when he came to apply hi, argu-
ments to the abolition of that Fund, he was unable
to go along with him. Huw, also, his Hon. Friend
meant to establish, that every year that they paid off
debt they were going backwards, he could not con-
ceive. When his Hon. Friend applied the word false
to the Sinking Fund during the war, he agreed with
him; but then he apprehended they could not have
a real one. At the same time he must observe, that
there might be something said for a fictitious Sink-
ing Fund in time of war. For, however useless and
invaluable it might appear in tire eyes of some Gen-
tlemen, to take any pains to sustain public credit now
that we wanted no money, yet, in time of war, that
public credit was valuable to the country—(flear,
Freer).—He much doubted whether public credit had
not been better maintained during the. war, by bor-
rowing thirty-five millions when thirty millions or.ly
were wanting, and making a nominal Sinking Fund
of the rest, than if that course had not been resorted to.
It served to keep alive the market—to give currency
to Stock, and t...at was credit. Ile would not go so
far as to say that this hypothesis was made out to de-
monstration, but certainly it was not clearly proved
to be otherwise. He agreed with his Hon. Friend
that great loss had been sustained by the errors in the
funding system ; but he could not agree that it was
equal to what 1:e represented it. He also concurred
with him in hoping that the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer would not fall into the same ei tor of borrowing
with one hand and paying. with another. He also
joined him in censuring the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer for representing the surplus to be greater
than it really was. Be did not wish to say anything
of that Noble Lord which might militate against the
respect he entertained for his personal character; but
he must say that the policy he acted upon in that re
spect was something like the vulgar vanity of people
to make their income appear greater than it was. He
certainly thought it a mistaken policy to endeavour
to make the surplus appear five millions, when in
reality, as his lion. Friend had distinctly shewn, it
was only three millions. He did wish that the Right
Hon. Gentleman would do away with that part of the
system of his predecessor, and lay out the money in
Long Annuities. But a question had been raised
whether a surplus at all were of any great moment ?
Gentlemen took up this view and raised this question
as though it were a matter which concerned one in-
terest and one class more than another—as if that
House ought to legislate for one interest in the State
more than for another; and as if it concerned one
interest more than another, that their affairs should
be soundly managed ! If there ere such an interest,
however, it was, in his opinion, that one which had
always stood by the country in all vicissitudes and
all emergencies—Wear, hear).—He Mr. Baring)
really wished that those Hon. Membeis who enter-
tained these views, would give the House an idea of
what they would do in any of those cases which are
likely to arise,, and place the country in an unusual
situation. There were Gentlemen in that House who
proposed to do away with the Sinking Fund; and it
was incumbent on them to shew how they would
propose to go on without it. He would ask them to
suppose, for instance, that the income should fall off
to the amount of four or five millions, and, in'his!
opinion, nothing was moie likely to happen. He
would put the House in possession of the views upon
which this opinion was founded. It would be found
that he was correct in stating, that neither in the
Metropolis, nor in the great towns, or even villages,
had the price of labour fallen in proportion to the
fall which had taken place in the price of provisions.
He spoke of the artioins and workmen in the higher
branches of the mechanics, fur he did not mean to
assert this of the labourers who plouished or sowed.
This high rate of wages bad been maintained by va-
rious causes—and amongst others, not the least, the
combination amongst the workmen. Taking the fact,
however, without troubling themselves about the
cause, let them look at the consequence: the labourer
could buy the same quantity of bread and meat which
he enjoyed before the fall of prices, with half what he
br - and the remaind--- —onev he -

Igo to borrow money,when the moment they did not
'grant it any mere, -they began to cry down the prin-
ciples of good faith,which called upon them to provide
for the repayment of it?—when a cry was raised for
"equitable adjustment," but which might more appro-
priately be styled convenient adjustment—(H: ar ).
He did not apply these observationi to his Man
Friend, the Member for Aberdeen, for he had alwt-ys
deprecated any breach of public faith : but how did
he mean to uphold public credit without a surplus
revenue? Who did he anticipate should lend their
money, when they boldly proclaimed they never,
meant to repay ?—(Hear, hear). True is was, they'
had seen the credulity of the nation led into all sorts
of money bubbles of late; and he did -not mean to
deny that some poor old women of Bath or of Ire-
land, whose worn-out faculties would not admit of
their following his Hon. Friend, the Member for
Aberdeen, in his calculations, and who, therefore,
might be so dull as to think that no one would ever ,
pronose to borrow who did not mean to repay : such
characters might forward their money. It was cer-
tainly possible to find blind ideots enough to lend on
such security—(Hear, hear, hear). Setting aside the
impropriety of promulgating such abominable prin.
ciples in Parliament, and proposing a system which:
could only lead to swindling, it was very u ell to talk
of the relief such a course might afford, but he un-
dertook to say that it WAS impossible for any man to
point out a system of Finance tOr a country more ho.
nourable than that one finnided on the principle of pay-
ing dr, in time of peace, what was borrowed in time of
war. If they consented to do away the funding system,
they would refuse the aid of what was a most im-
p! cant and efficacious engine upon all occasions of
iJitliculty. Ile was sure thellou,e would see the
proi;riery of standing by the general principles which
they had seen had guided his Majesty's Ministers in
the maintenance and application of the Sinking Fond. •
As it had been shewn that the Sinking Fund was
really only three millions instead of five, and it was
admitted by other Gentlemen that one or two millions
aught to remain in the nature of a Sinking Fund, it
would be seen that between the two, the remainder
to be applied to the reduction of taxation was so small
as scarcely to be worth notice. He would abstain
horn adverting to the subject of the change effected
in the value of the currelicy, farther than to say that
the greater part of the evils now suffered by the
c,untry were attributable to it. He hoped the Right
Honourable Gentleman would reconsider that part
of his Resolutions which treated of the Long Annui-
ties, and which he thought approached to the exploded
system of borrowing with one hand and paying with
the other; if that were done away with, then he should
say the Finance system of the Government was pal-
pable to the understanding of every man, woman,
and child in the country who could read—(Hear).
Mr. T. WILSON strongly deprecated the system
of argument follon ed by the Honourable Member for
Aberdeen, which he should always be ready to ex-
pose, whether he met with it in that House or else-
where. That Hon. Member never ceased to shew the
folly, and he believed even the iniquity, of borrowing
in time of war, and paying off in time of peace. lie
(Mr. Hume) thought, instead of that, they ought to
relieve the distress of the agriculturists, and not ap-
ply their Surplus Revenue to a Sinking Fund. But
it was not the landholder, but the monied man, fa orn
whom they borrowed, and he was cony iuced that main-
taining public faith would assist the agriculturists,
though not so directly as removal of taxes. All the
change he desired to he made in the Sinking Fund
was, that the Surplus Revenue should be applied to
make an extinction of debt instead ofa Sinking Fund.
Mr. D. GILBERT said, he had at the time op-
posed the attack of the late Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer on the Sinking Fund, because a Sinking,
Fund continued during the war, had on the return of
peace an energy in the reduction of debt, without
any effort on the part of the Government. Ile was
happy now that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had again established a Sinking Fund, and he trusted
that even if he should be obliged again to resort to
Loans, the Fund would be preserved inviolate.
Though he was one of the class who were most dis-
tressed, and should not be so romantic as to reject
any relief that could be extended to them, he could
not suppose that the remission of two or tin ee millions
of taxes could be attended to the Agi icultui fists them-
selves, with advantages equal to those derived horn
the maintenance of public credit.
Mr. H. G. BENNET said he should oppose, under
the present circumstances of the country, the appro-
priation of any sum to a Sinking Fund (Hear, hear).
He was a little surprised to hear the Hon. Gentleman
(Nlr. Gilbert) desiring the relief to be derived from
the reduction of taxes, when a few days ago the
Chancellor of the Exchequer was cheered for having
proposed a reduction of tun', millions, not because it
was a mockery, not because it was a delusion, hut
because, as far as it went, it would afford relief—
(Hear, hear),lt a reduction of two or three millions
was a mockery, a reduction of aye would be none_
(Hear, hcar).—With the trifling sum of three millions
I,ev mil --seal the Beer lax- -.1,'

paid before, and the remainder o. money he na- they might repeal ti T lax—that iniquitous tax.
,tuvally laid out in gin and tobacco, and other excise- which pressed on the poor for ti.e benefit of the rich
able articles. Thus they had an easy solution of the —(Hear, hear). When the Ilan. Member for Taunton
phenomenon of the flourishing Revenue. But sup- (Mt. Baring) reprobated those who talked of an equi-
posing bread and meat to become double their pre- table adjustment of contracts, and called it a conve-
sent price next year, they would then have a falling nient adjustment, he should recollect that he, too, had
off of three or four millions in the Revenue. He had his proposal loran equitableadjustment,bymaking
wished, then, to know what Honourable Gentlemen silver a legal tender. Why did he propose this equitable
could do under such circumstances? It was very easy adjustment, but because it was a convenient plan ?
and very attractive for Gentlemen to fall in with the He (the Hon. Member for Taunton) had told them
popular side of this question, and raise a cry for the that the string had been drawn too tight—(Hear)—
reduction of burthens; but he trusted to see a re- and that it was convenient to relax it. If, therefore,
spectable opposition to such docteines—(Hear, hear). there was any infamy in a proposal to make a conve-
He would call upon these Gentlemen to suppose ano- nient adjustment of contracts, the Hon. Member for
ther emergency also likely, in our present situation, Taunton came in with his claim for a full share—
to arise—he meant the necessity of armed interference ; (Hiar, hoar).—He was surprised to find that many
in some quarter of the world, whether it came from j Country Gentlemen, who, under the existing sys-
the shores of the Mediterranean or elsewhere. How tem, were deprived of their consequence and their
then would they propose to succeed,with their finances estates, did not even make their voices heard; that'
cracked, in the manner required? There was but one I they acre actually baring their throats to the
of two ways to choose—they must tax- the country, I butcher's knife—(Hear).— Did they know, that if
or borrow. Now, nothing could be more fatal to a t they adopted this proo3sal,there was an end of thehope
country than unsteadiness In the system of taxation of 'chef from the taxes? As to public credit, it seemed
—(Hear, hear).—Under a state of uncertainty, wire- , to him to be founded on public faith—on the dis-
charge by the Public of the obligations it Contracts.
ther an article would rise in price this year, or go
down the next, no trader could know what he was The terms ofthe contract with the public creditor was
about—(Hear, henry—Whitt, tilenovas the other way the payment of a perpetual annuity, and if the coun-
lelt to be adopted ? He ,hould undoubtedly say use try continued to pay the annuity, the obligations of
the funding sy stern—borrow now,and then they would good faith were fully discharged. With the Member
be in a state to repay alien called upon. But he for Taunton, the only object seemed to be to create
would put it to the House, with shat face could they, a purse. He lookeJ upon a Sinking FunJ in the lame