Star.
London, England, 1822-05-09 00:00:00

.‘ °.

--,.,

farmers
the country. ..He
trade established.
Its smaimposaVile-
rile tray at: ,
AI
:t
domed to the
Anovilsoldess expected
to receive the interest 'on the mortgage which. they
said they had on the soil and propertLof the country,
protection must be affofded. `To thlllkth‘e monied in-
bgest ought not to object, as while the value of landed •
•
Fr°Perty was declining, theirs hid been improving
from 20 to 21 per cent. Capital was at present being
paid for rent, and property was changin4 hands more
rapidly than was generally supposed. fire country
might recover, but the period at which this would'
take place seemed remote. The dealer in honey
would make a good landholder in, time ; and in the
meantime, as he would pay the taxes, the country
might go on. The farmers were a patient body of
men, and suffered much without complaint, but could
he expected that they would see themselves almost
ruined without making some effort to obtain justice?
He most anxiously pressed these things on the consi-
deration of the House, and announced it to be his in-
tention: when the proper time arrived, to submit to
the House that proposition which he had described
*s being, in his judgment, most applicable to the
circumstances of the country.

Mr. CRIPPS thought the present one of the most
interesting questions that had ever been submitted to
Parliament. The House, however, had only a choice
of evils. He freely admitted that a reduction of taxes
would be advantageous to agriculture. But though
eight shillings a quarter had been taken off malt, the
price of barley had fallen. He wished the import
price of corn fixed a little higher than the (Marquis
of Londonderry wanted it. If it were fixed at 70s.
or 755. it would, in his opinion, be sufficient for all
purposes. Everything should be done that could be
accomplished to relieve the distress at present pre-
vailing ; but he hoped that, if Parliament could not
do ali that it wished, the Public would be satisfied
IA ill its anxiety to do all that it could for the benefit
of so many conflicting interests. All they could go
to was a prohibition of an inundation of foreign corn
except at proper protecting duties. He wished that
he could vote for the motion of the Hon. Member for
Somersetshire (Sir T. Lethbridge), but it was not in
his power.

The Chairman (Mr. BROGDEN) suggested that the
better way would be to deal with the Resolution and
the Amendment seriatim.

• MN BAKES did not see any reason why they
should deviate from the recommendation of last year's
Agricultural Committee, which was, that they should
not legislate at all on the subject. The only altera-
tion that could be made with advantage was a regu-
lation of the importation of foicign corn. He wished
that the landholders should be left under the protec-
tion of the Act of 1815.• He, therefore, saw no reason
why they should not impose a complete prohibition
against the importation of foreign corn before the 25th
of March next, at which time Parliament could take
the subject under its consideration again. This might
be done with the less difficulty, as we had in ware-
house enough of foreign corn for one year's con-
sumption. He doubted whether our last year's pro.
duction was equal to an average crop; but it was said
that we were labouring under a superabundant pro-
duction. This, however, was true as to the foreign
corn countries ; but even on that consideration he did
not know how to recommend a scale of duties of any
kind. The system of averages he thought extremely
defective. He denied that it followed that an ex-
porting country of corn must necessarily be a rich
country. There had been a number of plans of
relief proposed; but there were few who were satis-
fied of the efficacy of any one of them—(Heard sear).
—Even after the Reports of two Committees, there
was such difference of opinion among Members, that
he thought the House was in no situation to legislate
on this subject, even if it were necessary, which he
thought it was not. At the same time, he could not
agree to a free trade in corn ; because, if that was
granted, were they not liable to be called on for a
tree trade in silk, wool, cotton, all sorts of raw mate-
rials, and manufactures, and that too in foreign bot-
toms? He did not think .our ancestors were such
fools as many Members seemed to think them. Their
maxims were not be despised, who had made of a
small empire (in point of extent) like this a very large
one. He believed that there was no country in Eu.
rope where the trade in corn at the present moment
was free from restriction. The system of importing
corn into this country would make us more and more
dependent on foreign nations for subsistence. Look
at the period of 1812. In 1800 and 1801 there was
such an alarm as to deficiency of crops, that every
means were suggested to enable us to extend our
growth of corn. It was curious to see how we were now
altering our notions, in his opinion, without reason.
He ridiculed the idea of recommending the farmer
to leave off the cultivation of wheat because he at

present found It a losing speculation. So far from
wishing that, he should rejoice to see the whole of
the country resembling a beautiful garden, rather
than see a single acre abandoned from cultivation.- -
Would any one say,that we should turn that valuable
class of our population, agricultural labourers, into
manufacturers? We had too much of a manufac-
turing population, and nothing he should deplore
more than making us still more a manufacturing
nation—(Hear, hcar).—Besides, there was a natural
reluctance in persons to remove their capital from
agriculture, or anything else, that it may have been
for a long time employed in. Since the end of the,
war, we had been relieved from eighteen millions of
taxation; and was it fair then to say, that overbur-
dening taxation was alone the cause of agricultural
distress ? No well-regulated mind could contemplate
any reduction of taxation which would at present
give substantial agricultural relief. He had recom-'
mended a measure of immediate relief in the Com-
palmy, which he wished to GOD had been adopted
there,,end by the House ; and that was, that the Go-
vernment should come into the market, and purchase
,a certain quantity of corn. He thought ultimately
we should be better off, by applying five millions an-
nually to the extinction of the Public Debt, rather
than to the immediate reduction of taxation. The
first tbing,we should look to, was the preservation of
public credit. H. hoped that no one would succeed
in dividing one interc.t of the country from another.

House ,to know". that he milt nt to detain them for a
very short tigre. Afier.. the • part he hid taken in
dtiswing tip df &port Of the Agricultural Committee,
of lit year; be thought it properto abstain from at-i
tending the Consignee of this' year. He:wished to
!ay noithis% of the late Reporwseacept that it, was ai
mystification of the Committee on themselves. He
wits glad to find that his Noble 'Friend's mind was
fall of the necessity of adhering to .the principles; of
the ComMittee oflast year; though'his-Noble Friend
wished to extend the restrictions on koportatiOn. .It
was because, on question!- of political economy the
Rouse should hear every proposition, thaihe had sub.-
mitted certain Reoltitilini tothe House; buthe found
k *as impossible to do so without calling down ani•
mad version froth those who held all political economy
to be ridiculous. He should, therefore, not go into any
of the practical measures that had been suggested,
but leave the House to dispose of the question.
Lord ALTHORPE denied that this was an im-
proper time to legislate on the Corn Laws; but he
could not agree that there should be a complete pro-
hibition on the 'import of foreign corn. The Noble
Lord agreed with the Honourable Member for Por-
tarlington, that it would be most desirable to adopt a
system which would give the grower a moderate,
steady, remunerating price. Something between 60s.
and 70s. would be about a fair price, as he believed,
between the grower and the consumer. It had been
said, that it would be necessary to guard against the
importation of bad foreign corn; but he believed that
to be unnecessary, as it would always be the interest
of the importer to send that corn which would fetch
the best price. Of all the Resolutions before the
House, he rather preferred those of his Honourable
Friend, the Member for Wilts, who proposed a ditty
of 21s. Now he considesed '2os. as sufficient, but he
would not object to 4.5. more. He was clearly of
opinion that taxation was the great source of agri-
cultural distress. A reduction of taxes would, he
was persuaded, give great relief. As to raising the
price of corn, he was persuaded it could not be done.
Let us look to the situation of Monmouthshire and
StafforAshire, and then say whether the state of the
labourers in those counties was such as would permit
of any advance of price in the necessaries of life, at
least of any such advance as would benefit the grower?
Mr. GOOCH, adverting to the Report of last year,
observed, that, although it was drawn up with much
talent, yet it was rather calculated to mystify than
inform those for whose information it was intended.
He deprecated all party spirit in this discussion ; and
was, on that account, extremely sorry to hear the
speech of an Hon. Baronet last night. He also re-
gretted very much that the first Resolution should
have been given up. He was convinced many indi-
viduals had looked forward to a loan from Govern-
ment for relief; and if the relief thus afforded had
not been permanent, by it the depression of the
markets would, for a time at least, have been relieved.
If all other trades were unrestricted and open, then
he was of opinion the corn trade should be open alto,
but not otherwise. As a protection, he thought the
ports should not be open under 655. and a duty
should be imposed-of 15s. instead of 12s. Such a re-
gulation would, he conceived, give a fair and equita-
ble protection to the grower.

Sir T. LETHBRIDGE briefly replied to some of
the arguments brought forward against his proposi-
tion. He contended, that if the trade was to be pro-
tected at all, the duties he had proposed were ne-
cessary : a free trade altogether would be preferable
to adopting any lower duties; and it would be for
the House to discuss whether this was a period at
which the system of a free trade could be adopted.—
If the House stopt short of giving the country imme-
diate relief, they would stop short of what the People
expected from them. His Resolutions, he contended,
were calculated to give that immediate relief. Much
had been said of going back to the standard of 1792;
but such a thing was impossible if Gentlemen would
consider that the taxes had been more than doubled
since that time.
Mr. N. CALVERT was one of those who did not
quarrel with the law as it now stood, which would
operate to keep foreign corn out of the market for
some time to come, and yet would induce persons on
the Continent to keep a stock by them, to supply us
in case of emergency. It was important that the
landed interest should have a remunerating price,
but he was not partial to any of the remedies proposed.

s
448eattrillihuthetecduVrenthecdyianstresd excessive
taxation.
agriculturists to
taxation.
Mr. SAOIJrGH/5,1~
call of edioti f=-..rizse.si
jadratibastoogd., 4. dtia... general
,
!louse *rig; ikhotll#
lode, in, the torn laiw.7 4.1040*.t„-f*lrT
l‘feingici -who Ida "s en Lai the subject ..iclumff64
tltaigrine atitin.was necessary, and ill ti • fie
at Nagy.
4 • .
principle cO be than he present princi
the torn LiW: 'To. provide a'remedy kho t 4)
adoptitiipbrtatlen prices and an average. -The ,sittqr
tion then was, which of the fleioltitiOnspLoponscred -
would be most advantageous? The NAle-Lballici
proposed the importatipn price and protectiiit duOes.
His Hon. Friend, the MeintierfOrTartarlingtou, bad
proposed a plan-fitefroth objection. His Man
.was
gradual, and in pridcipli he saw 'its) objectiOntojej;
but he thought the scale of perMinent duty was
much too low. The principles of the Members for
Wiltshire and Somersetshire were the same. .flut,
were it not for the particular circumstances of thii
country, he should be for a free trade altogether.--
He thought the. Member for Somersetshire had
treated with some acrimony the unhappy political
economists ; but he should recollect that they Were
all political economists, though they belonged to
different schools. His objection to the plan of the
Honourable Member for Bunersetshire, was, prir.-
cipally, that it amounted •to an exclusion.
But it should be borne in mind, that eighty shillings
now, were equal to 100 s. some time since. It was
said, however, that the agriculturist was burthehed
by Poor-rates and tithes. He admitted that they
were great •burthens ; but Hon. Gentlemen forgot
how indirect taxation pressed upon all. He (Mr.
Brougham), for one, thought that at least much of
our distress was attributable to taxation ; and that we
should be worse than folly-stricken if we did not
direct our attention to it. The proper object for con-
sideration was, cure for the present, rather than pre-
vention against a future disease. It was better, he
admitted, to legislate on the subject while we were at
low prices ; but he protested against this, his tem-
porary admission, being drawn into an argument that
he approved of the general principle. Let us reduce
taxation, and relieve agriculture as much as we can;
.and then, and not till then, would it be the bounden
duty of the House to consider of that which had been
called by many a Sinking Fund, and which they still
called a Sinking Fund for the sake of their own cha-
racters. He concluded by saying, that under the cir-
cumstances he should support the proposition of the
lion. Member for Portarlington.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY admitted the
right of the Hon. and Learned Member to reserve his
opinion on the general question. He (the Marquis)
only begged in return the right of contending here-
after that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was in
error, in believing that the reduction of taxation
would be productive of any great relief to the agri-
culturist. Such a reduction might relieve him as a
grower 9 rower • but not as a consumer. With regard to the
in
observations of Isis Hon. Friend, the Member for
Colic Castle, lie really thought his Hon. Friend
would, on reflection, see that he was rather advancing
than opposing the recommendation of the Committee
of last year. The subject had been discussed in the
House with calmness; and he had no doubt the
People of the country looked with confidence co the
decision of the House. He could not agree in any
respect with the proposition of the Hon. Member for
Somersetshire : and he thought that Hon. Member
would himself admit that his proposition was against
the general opinion of the Agricultural Committer.
His (the Marquis's) object was to assist the agricul-
tural interest, consistent with the duty which they
owe.i to the country at large; but he deprecated the
passing of any measure which, from its partial cha-
, ratter, would have the effect of exciting jealouty
among the other classes, and ultimately work an in-
jury to the agriculturists themselves.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Committee
divided, when there appeared
Fur Sir Thomas Lethbridge's Motion
Against it

24
245
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T7l!
?'1

protection shomild, • th! far?
afforded to the rs of th
should be 'err hakei!eote freie
but under existiv circusisiteaces this
If the monied intereertood Gad a
themselves by means Odi
f Iriptpe *
them have it, and let alliwotit4ol
landed interest; but while the•iondh

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S which sass' Let n° Polisialtiste Weft, ust* 11&, —X'. lir Iff ,satAtZlitlialso.friaaing tairotriaj )untry. _He I Weltrere Mkt did bbnifte a stiat4" mew Wleitori- dWe.--IfiFii- oite aims • _opened when the to
much iota poured in as would oppress the agriciti-
ambushed. nectekbut wearywhen disunited. ` 4 . was tioaiyitsbosit ad y import duty, there mists bee?
1 inipossible. Mr. HUSIERMOtt said, that after a speech der-
turists for years after-(Heed
yef paling treme la** aid embracing the greatest variety a
ilz then.ket contradictlWY,Vialoa, it might be some relief to the Mr. GRIFFITHS attrihmed • the x.t..... ..1' *L. •