Star.
London, England, 1823-06-27 00:00:00

JURISDICTION.

The Order of the Day, upon which their Lord-
ships had been summoned, was now moved, for con-
sidering the Appellate Report ftom their Lordships'
Committees, and for introducing some measures in
pursuance of the same.
The Earl of LIVERISOOL said, that it was not
his intention to enter at any length into all the msgg.
gestions contained-in this Report now upon the table
of the House. He Meant-tibly to bring in one Bill,
which he should propose for discussion at another
time, while laying the Resolution which embodied
and declared what *as proposed for the adoption of
their Lordships with regardtothe Appellate Juris-
diction on the table of the House. It was proper to
state, however, with briefness, what had given rise to
the appointment of the Committee whose-Report was
before their Lordships; what was the nature.Of that
opinion by which the Committee had been goierned
in forming their conclusions; and further, what were
the remedies which the Committee had been induced
to propose for to essential an alteration in the admi-
nistration of the judicial functions of the House.
Here, in the first place, it should be recollected' that'
in 1813 their Lordships had resolved to sit three dayi
in every week for the purpose of hearing the Appeals
Made from different and distant parts of the United
kingdom; and to accelerate their progress through
the House; it was agreed that their Lordships would,
upon those alternate days, assemble in geueral by the
hour of ten in the morning, and continue, if possible,
till nearly four. Whatever were the difficulties they
now perceived to exist on this score, it was creditable
to their Lordships that they had adhered to this stand-
ing order, from that period to the present day, with
such few exceptions as it was impossible to foresee or
to prevent. Yet, after all this attention, if their Lord-
ships now looked at the Appeal Returns on:the table
of the House, it would unfortunately be seen, "that
they had not been able to overtake, if he might so
express it, the business of deciding in such cases,
Which since the year 1813 had increased to 500 in
number; and thus the state of business was nearly as
bad as ever. These remained for hearing not less
than 212 Appeals; from which circumstance their
Lordships might see what the arrear of business was
in this respect; but he had no manner of difficulty in
saying that all the evil lay in the accumulation of
Scotch Appeals, and the protracted' nature of their
pleadings. In number those cases were as five or six
from Scotland to about one only from England, and
from Scotland there came forty Appeals in one year,
while, besides, the length of the latter was much
greater than those from England or Ireland. All the
grievance lay, theieforc, in that portion of the Ap-
pellate Jurisdiction of the House coming from Scot-
land; for otherwise, if arrears were first got ricrof,
there would be no difficulty in keeping the. judicial
business of the House within proper bounds, which
would certainly be a most happy consequence to the
legal business and general convenience of the country
at large. So far then their Lordships knew* the entiie
and only cause of the evil now before them. Now,
looking at the matter under this aspect,this first gutstion that occurred was, the possibility of removing
that portion of the Appellate Jurisdiction which re-
fers to Scotland from their Lordshipseand transferriog
it to another quarter; for if this alternative Were
practicable, there was an end of the evils at once.
NVas it not possible to create a new special tribunal for
the hearing of Scottish appeals; he would not say now,
but, at any rate, hereafter? It was perfectly true that
this House was called a dernier resell to decide great
litigated points ; but it surely could not be wished
that they should be expected to detide-on questions
of law where Os laws themselves tyre as theereit
as those of foreign States from those orthis-eoiihtry;
for in this respect the laws of Scotland bore no affi-

nity to those of Ragland, nor' even to those of Ire-
land. He-believed that his Noble arid leearned Friend
(the Lord Chancellor) had succeeded in iolminister-
ing the law of Scotland with as much satisfaction as
it was allowed he had administered the law of Eng:
land. Such also was the case with another Noble
and Learned Lord—lie meant Lord Redesdale—and
he'believed that two or: three individuak were iitilai-
fied in a similar war iltut excepting such persons, it
appeared thatthe selMe of the Learned Judges, and
the gee. 'ority of the legal profession, were nearly
V?
as igno the laws of Scotland as of the laws of
foreign es. Looking at all this, the, sole remedy.
was, be conceived, the relieving the House itself
from the burthen of Scotch Appeals; but here again
lie believed that the people of Scotland Would regret
most seriously the removing of their jurisdiction as
appellants, and look upon the alteration with no
pleasure. Should, however, their Lordships be.of
opinfon that this particular right of appeal ought to
be removed as to the future, the measure could by
no means apply to those appeals now before the
House, though it was not possible for them to be
completely got rid of before a considereblelength of
time. Hence, therefore, the Committee had looked
to other measures, in order to meet the difficulty of
clearing off the appeals now entertained, and to be
Cecided by the House—measures which might all&
ate, though they could not remove, the evils of de-
lay
in such cases at once, or eltogether. Thus; for
example, due distinctions in pleadings were pointed
out between the matter of fact, matter of law, and
matter of equity ; so that, by resorting to those dis-
tinctions, when facts were once cleared of other points,
the decision, on the application of law to fact, might
in most cases be anticipated in the English Courts,
which, however, was the reverse in the Scottish
Courts. If, therefore, it was Wished to bring about,
a complete revision the method of pleading in
Scotland, it should never be overlooked bow impor-
tant it was to substitute the proceeding by dial teste.-,
mOny in preference to writing,. as recommended by
the Committee, by which much of the evil would
undoubtedly be removed. He therefore could sea no
manner of objection to the appointment of a Corn.,
mission forthwith, in order to investigate this portion
of the administration of justice; and he was satis-
fied that such a Commisston, well appointed, might
soon be enabled to repirrt the result of their inquiries
to the House. Hence no real. time would be lost, for
the Report of the Commission must necessarily come
to their Lordships kin before the pending' Appeals
could possibly be disposed of. His first.preposition
to their Lordships was, therefore, to bring in imme-
diately a 'specific i Bill for the appoiatment of the
Commission he had.deseribed. But the neat impor-
tant point was the question, whet remained tohepro-
vided for the present arrear of appeals, as it was not
possible to send them to any.otber tribunid than. this,
House? So far, therefore, as.the.questiost ,of that
lrrrearage went, their- Lordships ;nest not only dO
komethipg, but even that something must be acme
Promptly. Let it here he reclaimed, that dick Loll'.
'ships had for fevers'. years already been intitebabit
of sitting three days every Week,liePing to forward
khe business of appeals, which consumption of time
was really 'so- much ;opportunity lost for ever. to his
Noble and Learned Feiendtespecting the proceedings:
in the Court of Chancery; yet he saw no. way of re-
medy but by increasing the number of appellate days.
-It was upon this principle that the CoMmittee had
proposed the hearing of appeals for five days in
every week, instead of three only ; and it was at first
intended to propose six days in every week, but it
was considered that five days would be quite suffi-
cient for such hearingst as their Lordships had gene-
,rally to deal w ith-the most important of (muses, *bid)
-required intheir consideration the fullest, attetch.ol,
even the most enlarged minds ;, and, rtherefore, the,
proposed days for hearing such causes were sethtstd:
toSve in eery week. Theisen question wasAispect-
jog the time, of- aaendance.otrituch 'captive rip. the
-House. Here it should also' be.vbserved -diet his
*Noble and Learned Friend had atOood*dlitor Aims:

days in nearly every week, ever since she year •181/4'
which proved a great interruption to his,euty in bib,
peculiar Court; but if their lordship's woe
'to sit for appeals fives thsys together in every week,
his Noble and Learned Friend must Hof necessity be
relieved from his attendance in the-House, and .mea-
Ores must be taken, not °flirt° _supply his place but'
also to enfince the attendance of ether Peers,-in suc-
cession, for the expediting of such causes. He hoped.
that the result would not be objected to, .as ?MOM-
mended by the COmmittee* when. it was ptebollile that
only two days attendantecould in each Session-be:re-
quisied of each available-Peer ; and,- in order.to.pro-
vide for such attendance, it. was.agneed in-the Coni.-
mittee, that it would "be expedient to ..resort tothe
fine ordered for non-attendance. •on the ail oißtins

and Penalties, a . penalty inahis instance. not so aotere,
.as their Lordships Were( entitled.to attend • isrushsti-
lutes. 'Next arose animpoitant consideration ohm-
ther. kind, namely, thaquestion as to. whatTersons
should sit in .the. House forthe purpose. of .discherg-,
ing the duties VI long fulfilled by this Noble -and I
Learned Friend ? Ande'he-mustebjegt.to:all ar-
rangement which fell short' of -relieving. .their Lord-
ships as speedily as. praetioabk from-the vast-arrrar in
appeal •eases;. and:;vhich, also, did not enable his
Noble and Learned(Friend to: sit move froqoaitly in
his own•Ooort. -Ibluicisin former timerbeen the piac-:
.tice of the Crown, scion's-orb an °erasion, to appoint a.,
Deputy ;Speaker to the • House they . had, tiowi in the:
'Lord Chief Baronet' the•Courrof Exobeauer and the.
Lord ; Chi ef Justice Uf. the -Gorr or King's Bench, an
d rumple of sitting by torn., tit- (different times, for his.'
Noble and Learned Friend and it•lwas 'within the
prerogative of Majesty to( summon a Privy ton n-!
tiller or3sidge to sit among their. Lordships, and!
collect their opinion ; and if• their(Lordships)shoold
please (not asa matter of right) as -an indillgence,t
and, for, their own 'advantage:and oonvsoiessoe, to
safer such an individual to 4fficiate astheir Speaker,
the aecomtnodatinn would be perfectly right-'and
COnstkational. By this arrangement the appellant
jurisdiction'would go en 'during 'fire idays week,
While his Noble 'and Learned:Friend: idisthargod hid
properAuties in, hisaurn-Ccurt ; and •his 'deputy in
*House; if required,' might:give an opinion for the!
inforotation a their Lordsfaips;abough it was hkely
ehat hidisfiide Would ingeneralbeiirnited to metioni
of coarse. (1-therciorei
up.figi *muskeg .61 ,the difictiltr they hitd got into`
he would ask witetheelberanaaraorskid; *hat othet
mode of' getting out? He knew, certainly, that

sable had suprosed that the objtot Iloisiit -be at.
taisfed .by their. taking.. away itdre business of hi-
WY, MK the businos hinitenptcy, from tioe,
jurisdietiois of the Court of Chantery. But both
'We most import ant. branchei off the business of. that I
Court. Aid their Lordships must see of hose great ins-
.pprtantejt._was that the titulary care of lunatics should
es:s to the very first.Law-Cfificer of the COOrt,
who, as *wens pafrie, Was the representative of the
King. As to bankruptcy, when thetwisdietipoin
casts of bankrupts, was withopt An appeal, he was of
opinion that such a power ought to remain with the
Lord Chancellar ; but even were it ppssiblc 49 with-.
draw the business both of lunatics and bankrupts
from the Colin of Chanoety, still his ,Noble Ansi.
Learned Friend could never sit five •days .in that:
House with justice to his own Court. Neither.could
he ever wish-to see the office of their ySpeeker and
Chancellor once diVided. He shquld be sorry, on
many account's, to see an office of such cligisity.4od:
of such antiquity so frittered down; and if even thitre:
remained no other fair point of oiection, he weuldi
maintain that such a division of office ien_prd
bring additional business to the house. ,Fro,nl the`
best consideration he had been able to give •to the:
subject, and without the least political bias, he must+
distinctly say, that no relief was practicable but byj
attending to the recommendations of the Committees,
untest their Lordships were prepared to withdraw sill
'Scottish Appeals; but this was a subject on which
he believed he had already said enough, and perhapsl
too much. .14e had, in addition to the till he be
fore had glanced at, to propeke 3t aeries of .Resolu-
tions, now upon the table of the.Hoese. The,follow-
ing were the,Resolutious submitted by the Noble Ea 11: ,
1. Resolved—That, for the future, .until further order, this
House do sit to bear Appeals and Writs of Error live ;lays in,
each week during the Session, save on such days, h appointed
As aforesaid, over which the House may think fit to adjourn. '
2. Resisived—That the House do meet on each of the said •
days, at the hour of ten o'clock in the forenoon, and do continue
sitting on the hearing of causes until the hawk of fear. ,
Resolved—That three Loris be regained to attend upon
each of the said days of hearing Appeals and Writs of Error.

, 4. Resolved--That for the better enforcing the attendance of
the Lirds two the hearing of Appeals and Writs of Error, the
Meuse be called over on the Monday next after the meeting of
each Seedon of Parliament, and that notice be taken of such
Lords as are absent, as weithose who have, as those who have
not, taken their seats.
S. Resolved—That the next day after the House is called, the
titles of such Lords as have taken their seats be vrritttn an se-
parate slips of paper, Antrim put in ballotingglasses at the table;
Pad that three of the said tides be drawn out by the Clerks,
and set -down in rotation as the same are drawn, till all the
titles be so drawn out and set down ; and that days be appointed
for the attendance of each set of names so drawn, and that the
list be printed.

.Itesolved—.-That a list of the Lords, as they are appointed
to ittetidlh :station, be transmitted to each of the said Lords.
7. Resolved—That the three Lords so set down in rotation do
adyeridty ;mild on the days respectively fixed for such their at-
tendance on the bearing of causes, under a penalty of fifty
02, to be incurred and Paid by any Lord who shall make
in that rolliect, unless be shall procure some other Lord
to ittie94lo ve4 teat tbe mid three. Lords be, on the
_preeedltfat tbe day anointed for such their attendance,
AutriAmmobed fortbat purpose.
s. Ilesoived—That such Lords as are unable to serve from
pre, icing 70 yews old, or from permanent infirmity, be ex-
;used from the lialtot; and that such Lords• as are unable to
tier* frau 11l health of domestic affliction, or for other special
houses, to be consented to by the House, be excused for their ab-
hence on the day appointed for such their attendance.
. 4. Ilmolved—That the stsufdlog.Orthr, N 0.154, be considered,
in order to the same being amended.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL then moved, that the
aforementioned
_Bill should be read a second time on
Monday neat; the Resolutions to be considered in con-
nection with the Bill.
The motion was Alva agreed to, and their Lord-
ships were ordered to be summoned for Monday nett.
The Earl of CARNARVON said hebad long been
df opinion, that -the appellant jurisdiction of that
ouse was most. absurd, for the circumstance of ap-
pealllseingraaele.fkorn the Judge in one Court to the
heateludge in that Hoisse, went to do away the effect
tof appeah altogether. He strongly objected to. the
hroPonition -Ileorsto attend thereon the
earing of appeals, who would only add to the ridi.
IM-eady- belonging to such proceedifsgs. He,
-therefore,. should never give his consent to any such
•prOpOsititates this ; and to appoint other Judges to
sit in:that House would be an act of injustice. He
hoped, then,
_ there would be no compulsion to bring,
Peers into that-House ; and as to other Judges, he, as
a Peer; Would never submit to the dictation of any
man who was net a Member of that House—(Liar).
- The-Earl of -ROSSLYN observed, that when the
:Chancellor happened to be absent, any Judge ap•
pointed to sit inhis Place would have the sarnejuris-
diction as the Lord Chancellor. Therefore he could
not agree in the statement Of his Noble Friend who
had just; spoken.. • Suppose -ouly two or. three Lotift'
sat during the hearing of a case, and that they were.
dot acquainted*With the law, trust not the decision be
kft to the jtidgment :of those Judges who presided ?
Thole :Judges mere not • toti.ve more .direction; than
were usually in other cases ; and the only al-
teratierfthatikveniflUd be now made by the arrangement
proposed, as had existed on all former occa-
sions, when the Great Seal wns Placed in other hands,
in-ease of thefiliancellor's absence-from illness. As
to whether the House should declare it elf incompe-:
terit tothe appellant ijtuisdiction, was a:questiou he,
would not-eater into ; but nothing was now.proposed
that Was not copsistent With former usages. -If the
'House rejected its appellant. jurisdictiob, it would be.
,uiikt .for Any. otherijurisslictions; it should never
abandon its right 'is?..theuppellant.jurisdiction over
Secitleod: • (Kouseilrad not the right to renounce
(bat jtirisdlttlon. :Ant • Meile t iP:itOclictisin
England ; and, in theoty,•tbeliouge was supposed to
.be perfbetly acquainted with the law of Scotland, and
had a right-to decide en that :.There were many
Stetib Ilserr: in th 4 House, a!nl about sixty Peers
Who were coonected • with property in Scotland;
therefore, the appellant jurisdiction of Scotland'
ought not to.be abandoned. It must not be imputed
On% that thiswat a new tribunal ; for there was no
novelty in it, sxcept that of requiring Lotds, • under
penalties, togirea compulsory attendassee ; and he
Was sure, if patties were to ore there for Justice,
ttldre Q. 44 to ;010 piaspry*tezidAuce of Peers. .
The Ear.cf:C.ARNAK VC1111,14 oplamation, said,'
that if the compulsory clause. *eras mauled to the
',Aileen *eta P'bers,,much Of hiiobjection to the Bill
Art:add be teMoved. • • •
The Jiiill Was then read .a first, and -cOgrefl to bq
seacia:seetind time on hlonday.twat. ;.•
The Other -Bills on the • table, were reinllin:angt
• stages; and at Half-past Seven the House adjourned..