Star.
London, England, 1831-09-14 00:00:00

utroam BILL.

Lord J. RUSSELE,inrisiWg to move that the Report
be now read, said he had only a few observations to make.
There were one or two alterations which had been made, of
which notice had not been given, that lie would call the
attention of the house to. The first point was regarding some
places which had been expressed in the original bill as pa-
rishes, and which he would propose that there should be
substituted " Towns," fur the word parish. (Hear,
hear, hear.) He cited as one instance that of Brighthelm.
atone, which had been design:veil the pariah of Brighthelm-
crone, and his amendment would be, that it should be de-
aignated the town of Brighthelmstone. The next point was
relating to the period that the bill should come into active
legislation. The original date fixed for the commencement
of taking the registrations, had been the Ist of November of
the present year, but it had since been considered impossible
to have the lists completed by that time, and they proposed '
to change the day of commencement till the Ist of February,
1832. This last alteration would necessarily involve other
alterations, two In number, regarding the periods up to which
rates and taxes were to be paid : the dates of which would
be put forward the same proportion of time. They had
also taken into consideration the suggestion of an 000.
member (Mr. Wilkes) regarding the property of the booths
to he used at elections, and they would, as an amendment, I
propose that the parties, if they might find it more couve.
I nient, should be allowed to hire a house for the purpose
I of the election, or they might employ a booth if they chose.
There was one point more important than all these, which
his noble friend (Lord Althorp) had, in his (Lord J.
Russell's) absence, pledged himself should be re-considered
relating to four counties in Wales, namely, Glamorgan.
shire, Carnarvon, Denbigh, and Pembroke. These had
been taken into consideration, and they would propose that
one member additional be given to two of them. These
were the only amendments that he thought required to be
given notice of ; but there were a number of minor amend-
ments of no importance, which would be introduced on bring-
ing up the report of the bill.
Mr. GOULBUIIN thought it of importance' before pro-
ceeding farther, that some arrangement should be made re-
garding the third reading of the bill; he thought that
ministers should name the day it was intended to be read a
third time.

Lord ALTHORP said there was some difficulty in
making such an arrangement ; but at the same time he ac-
knowledged that It would be desirable to have a specific day
in view; and he would state that it was the intention of
Ministers to name Monday next.—(Cheers.)
CROKER though it a matter of the deepest im-
portance that there should be some restraint on the power of
the Commissioners. He was also desirous to know the full
extent of all the alterations that were to be proposed.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that beyond what n_ had stated
the alterations were merely trifling where blanks had to be
filled up and technical alterations made.
Sir C. WETHERELL put a question, and then objected
to the alteration of the dates regarding the rates and taxes,
which, he said, would make a material difference to those
who were ratepayers.
Lord J. RUSSELL said the reason why he had stated
that the alterations would be mcutioned when the report was
brought up, was because they were merely matters of course,
those which were alterations really he hid particularly laid
down.
Mr. GOULBURN thought the bill should be before
them, as It was to be, before they could be called upon to
give their opinion.
Mr. CHOKER proposed that the bill should be brought
in pro forma, and that It should be reprinted entire.
Lord ALTHORP said they had been under the necessity
of filling up several of the dates at random, and on account
of the length of time they had been engaged in debate, which
they could not have calculated upon, they had consequently
been necessitated to make alterations ; but these alterations
could make no difference in the principle of the bill.
Sir C. ‘VETHERELL was nut satisfied with the expla-
nation given. He said it would make a great difference to
many who would be affected by it. There were now three or
four boroughs to be added to the bill, and these ought first
to be insetted. The only way would be to bring in the bill
pro forma.
Mr. C. WYNNE wished to know when the bill was to
be completed. It had yet to go through the other house of
parliament.
Lord J. RUSSELL replied, that the registration, which
was to commence on the Ist of February, would be finished
on the last day of April.
Sir O. MURRAY wished to know since alinisters had
made an alteration in the represenfition of Wales, if they
intended to make any alteration in Scotch representation,
that the population might, in the mean time, lay their case
before them.

Lord ALTHORP said, that thoglad not determined on
any alteration regarding Scotland, but there was nothing to
prevent the population representing their cases.
Mr. C. FERGUSON did think that there were instances
in Scotland that required revision more than any that were
in Wales. He also thought clause 42 was deficient.
Lord ALTHORP explained.
Mr. HUNT said, he was pleased with the alterations that
had been mentioned by the noble lord ; but in the 49th
clause there had something been forgotten. It would not
inconvenience the candidate, but it would be a great incon.
venience to the electors. No provision had been made to
give notice to the electors what booth they were to vote in ;
they might easily ascertain what district they were registered
in, but they ought to have notice in time before an election
where that booth was to be situated.

Lord ALTHORI" thought the clause was sufficiently
explicit.
Mr. HUAIE agreed with the observations of the lion.
Member for Preston.
Mr. BARING wished to know if the whole Board of
Commissioners were to dictate to the divisions of that

body.
Lord ALTHORP bald, it was the intention of the Go-
vernment not to interfere.

The SPEAKER then put the question that the report be
read. He said, it was necessary, before proceeding farther,
to inform them of the legal way in which the amendments
were to be moved. The Right Hon. Gentleman then, at
some length, laid down the law, which was so subtle, ap-
rently, that he bad some difficulty in tusking some of the
Honourable Members comprehend it.
The report was then admitted to be read, in the course of
which, Lord ALTHORP moved a number of verbal alte-
rations, which were speed to.
Mr. TREVOR, on the clause relating to qualifications,
objected to persons paying 101. being qualified to vote in

London and its vicinity, as, he said, it amounted uttl.
sal suffrage. He would move, uan amendincm,
qualification for franchise should be raised front lul. to Jo•
in London and its
and mercantile towvins. cinity, and in oeiter large mat.l4..c.et:

The SPEAKER informed the hon. member that lie emy
specify the name of the towns which he meant in the niuti,,g,
The amendment was agreed to. Scv.ral otl, vet 4
amendments were agreed to.
Mr. R. TREVOR proposed as an air caL:ent to 11- .
park of clause 272 which requires that freemen, to r,,ain
elective right, should reside within seven mils ut the city
or borough of which they are fret-men, that the word
should be substituted for 7 seven.'

Lord A LTHORP considered ten miles too great a distaste
Mr. 1111011 ES wished the hon. member would make 1..
amendment' fifteen miles,' :,Ilowicg to town voters the sace
diatance from the place of voting which was allowed I,
county elector*.
Mr. GISBORNE opposed, and Colonel SIaTIIOIIPE sup.
ported, the amendment.
Mr. ESTCOURT asked what reason had induced M:.
nhters to lix on the number " seven."

Lord J. RUSSELL said the reason was, that seven milts
was a distance wilt& the voters could conveniently travel oa
foot, occasioning no expense of conveyance to the candidate.
After a few words from Mr. PROTHEROE, and (AL/
Hon. Members,
Mr. TREVOR said, he changed his amendment fres:
" ten" to " tileen" miles.

Air. CROKER hoped the hon. member would n.); prett
his amendment to a division

After a few words from Sir C. VITHERELL, anl Lard
J. RUSSELL,
Mr. TREVOR said he withdrew his amendment.
The Clerk having come to that part of the bill cl
names commissioners,
Mr. CROKER said he reserved his observations on :ids
part of the bill for the third reacting.
Colonel SIBTHORPE protosted against members of a
house being appointed connitissioners, especially when a•
pointed exclusively from the ministerial side.
Lent J. RUSSELL said one of the members appoint,
had voted against the second reading of the reform bill.
Sir It. VVVICAN considered it unconstitutional to in.
trust to ti irty individuals the power (which this clause gave
them) of reguloting the borough constituency of England.
The clause under consideration gave to the Commissioner,
an almost despotic power over the boroughs. The bill
would never pass while it contained such a dagrant violatiou
of all constitutional principles. (Hear, hear.) It could
never pass the ether house unless a batch of peen tver,
created for the express purpose of passing it. (Corers.)
Colonel SIBTHORP then moved that the names of J.
Littleton, Esq. D. Gilbert, Esq. and J. Wrottealey, E.
be struck out from the list of Commissioners.

Lord INGESTRIE scconded the amendment.

Lord J. R USSELL said it was desirable that there shock'.
be among the commissioners members of the house, who
might explain to the house, when the report of tie:
commissioners was submitted to it, the reaso:;s wbie::
Ind influenced the commission in its operations. Mr.
Littleton and Mr. Wrolesky were eminently qualified
for the office of commissioners. Mr. D. Gilbert was dis.

tinguished fur his scientific knowledge. Ministers were ac
mud of appointing Ministerial members. Now, one of the
Circe members had voted against the second reading of the
Reform Bill. The member for Radnor, an opponent of the
bill, had been requested to form part of the Commission, but
he had refused. He contended that the Commissioners ge
nerally were free from party feeling, and if the hen. membe
(Sir IL Vyvyan) brought forward any charge against them•
tie ( Lord IL) should be ready to meet that charge, and to.
assert that the gentlemen of the Commission were as qua.
Inject by their acquirements, their science, their in.
telligence, and their int.grity, to discharge their duties
as any gentlemen who could have been proposed (Hear.)
The bon. Member (Sir R. Vyvyan) in his declarations,
which had r,minded him of the declamations he had made

us: of on the day of the dissolution—declamations suggested
on that occasion, he (Lord It.) verily believed, by an antici.
potion of his defeat in the county of Cornwall. The hon.
member, he said, bad forgotten in his declamations abut:
the despotic power confided to the Commissionets, that their
decisions were not to be valid unless sanctioned and adopted
by the two Houses, and by the King. (Hear.) He would
meet the affirmation of the hon. member, that the Reform
Bill would not pass, by a contrary affirmation; he cull
affirm that the bill would pass. (Immense cheering.)
The feeling of the country in its favour was unabated—
(cheering continued)—and that feeling, together with the
Inherent merits of the bill—(cries of Oh and cheer).-
would, he trusted, secure its passing into a law. He null
not follow the hon. member in his indiscreet allusions to the
other house, further than to say that he was sure the bill
would receive from It that consideration to which it was es.
tided, u having had the deliberate consideration and cordial
approbation of a House of Commons elected by a people
called to exercise their elective franchise for the special par.
pose of appointing a House of Commons which should et.
present their feelings with respect to the ministerial measure.
Mr. LITTLETON rose, but was met by crio e:
" Spoke."
Mr. CROKER said the honourable member had a right
to speak as he had not addressed the house since the amend.
meet was put.
The SPEAKER said, in that case the hon. member had
a right to speak.
Sir A. V V V VAN said be had been taunted for having lost
his election, but he would tell the noble lord that though
now a member for a simple borough, he had as much rode.
pendence as the noble lord. He declared that Ministers had
raised, by the late dissolution, a spirit amongst the people
which they would be unable to allay. When Ministers made
what they called their appeal, they were in contradiction with
themselves, because they were appealing to those whom
they pronounced to be unworthy of the elective franchise.
He knew Ministers had the power to secure the passing of
the bill through the Peers by a single dub of the pen, but
that dash of the pen would be attended by a responsibility
so terrific, that he trusted Ministers would shrink from it.
The condition of the country was most lamentable, with res-
pect to its future prospects; but when the people looked
maturely at the bill, to determine whether it would be suf.
ficient to secure the permanent interests of the country, be
thought an important change would be produced in their
opinions. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. H. GURNEY said the Hon. Baronet had made an
eloquent speech upon the whole Bill, but he had said
nothing whatever respecting the clause before the House :
(hear.) If the Bill was to pass, there could not be a fairer
list of Commissioner than those appointed by his Majesty's
Government.—(Hear.)
Mr. A. BARING complained of the powers given to the
Commissioners under the BilL
Mr. HUNT thought that too much power had been given
to the Commissioners appointed under this bill. He asked
the House if they bad read the observations of a leading
journal yesterday (laugh) He deprecated the attack that
bad been made upon the Peers, and if he were a Pew (a
laugh), he would rather sacrifice his dignity (laughter) and
his property, than be forced into any course of conduct hos•
tile to his wishes. He wished this bill to pass (laughter);
he did not care whether it passed or no (increased laughter)
It was his opinion, however, that the bill would pass, hut
he deprecated the threats used by the noble lord, the Par.
master of the Forces. .

alt. H. GRATTAN begged in reply to the bon. baron,'
(Sir R. Vyvyan) to say, that the people of England would
be heard despite of the attacks of the hon. baronet, who ad.
vocated one side upon one occasion, and another side upon
another.

Mr. GOULBURN objected to Mr. Littleton being oat
of the commissioners under the bill. not on account of
personal character, but because he was a member of OW
House, and who tad taken a part in the proceedings Itt•
pecting the question of Reform.
Lord ALTHORP thought the objection of a member c:
Parliament, who was friendly to the bill, being appointtd.
commissioner, was a most frivolous one.
,Mr. CHOKER wished his hon. and gallant friend (a
Sibthorp) to withdraw his motion.
Colonel SIBTIIORP acquiesced in the suggestion ter t •
right hon. friend.
After some further observations from Mr. C. Wynn, LA,'•
Althorp, Mr. Goalburn Mr. Croker, Mr. Trevor, Sa
Vyvyan, Lord J. Russell, Sir G. Clerk, Mr. S. Wortl,,.
and Mr. Estcourt, the clause, after some amendments. tom
agreed to.
Several other clauses up to the 29th were also, after son,
amendments, agreed to ; and on the motion of Lord AltiturF
the Report was ordered to be taken into futher considers,
tion to-morrow, (this day.)
The other Orders of the Day were then dispouti 0::
and the House adjourned at Two o'Clock.
The King has expressed, by a letter from alts
Secretary of .tare to the Commissioners of Police. Col°3`l
Rowan and Mr. Mayne, his approbation of the conduct t:
the Police fora at the Coronation.