Star.
London, England, 1801-02-11 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY tm•

The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM, Vircount WENT.
ROltTil, and the Bilbop of Ety, were (worn, and
took their Seats.
Previous to the Order of the Day being con-
fidered,
The Earl of Sorroic adverted to his query of
yellerday. and wifhed to be informed by any
Lord who might be acquainted with theinten-
tions of Government on that head, whether the
appointment of a Committee, or a revival of that!
of laft Sefton, to inquire into the caufe of the pre-
fcnt High Price of Provifions, &c. was to take
place ? And at the fame time intimating, that in
cafe fuck a proceeding was not intended, he Ihbuld
himfelf move for the appointment of a Committee
for that purpofe.
After waiting fome time for a reply, the Noble
Earl addrefred the Houfe again on the fubje& ;
he expatiated on its great importance( pointing
ont that it was a queflion which came home to
the interefts and feelings of all ranks and nations
in Society, particularly the lower, and concluded
with moving, verbally, in cleft, That a Com-
mittee be appointed to inquire into the prefcnt
High Prices of Provifions.
Before the Clerk could readily commit the fame
to writins,
The Lazo CHANCELLOR. addrefrad a few ob-

fervations to the Noble Earl, but in fu low a tone
of voice, that at the diftance firangers are placed,
it was impoffible to diftinguifh them. However,
as we could obferve, the Motion was not put.
The Houfe, which was attended by an enufnal
number of Peers, and Commoners (landing behind
the Throne, continued for Tome time without any
bufinefs being proceeded in; but on the arrival of
Lord Doaxtry, the Order of the Day was then
read for going into the difettffion of his Motion for
an Enquiry into part of the condua of his Ma-
jelly's Minifters refpeding the mans seat of
the War, for which deliberation the Houle had
been fummoned, when
The Earl of Coat ists rote to entreat the Noble
Lord not to infift on bringing forward his Motion
at the prefent moment. The general fituation of
the country was at the prefent moment critical and •
alarming almoll beyond any former example; but it
involved in it many circumftances which, if viewed
in the light in which he had confidered them,
were fufficient to ditruade 'any Noble Lord from
preffing a difcuffibn of this nature at the prefent
conjunfture. Not only in his opinion might fuel:
a dircuftion appear premature ; but what cams
more home to his feelings, it might now be deemed
ungenerous and unmanly to bring forward. any'
charge againft the condult of 'Minifters, while
they were placed in a fituation in which it might,
be embarraffing to them to enter on their de-
fence.—Many of them, it was fuppofed, were re-
tiring from office, and the grounds upon which
their withdrawing was accounted for, added con-
fiderably to the dangers and difficulties to which
the intercity and fafety of the empire were ex-
poled. He more particularly alluded to the quef-
tion of the Emancipation of the Irifh Roman
Catholics, for which the faith of Government had
in fame degree been pledged : and this quelli ,ol
he could not help regarding as big with the moh•
momentous confequences. However, he might
lament the decifion that had taken place on this
very delicate point, he wiflied that any difculLoa
of it might be abflained from for the prefent.
He therefore begged leave to appeal to the can.
dour and good judgment of the Noble Lord who
had given notice of the Motion, and to exprefs hie
expe4tation that filch an appeal might induce that
Noble Lord to poftpone his Motion to a future day.
Lord Doantsr role to explain the motives by
which be was aduated on the prefent occalion.
He had not taken up the matter lightly, but after,
the moll cool and mature inveftigation of tha
!late of the country. From that view of the pci‘
ture of public affairs, it appeared to him that the
difficulties and embarrafmeats in which the coca.
try was now involved were tenfold greater than
when he firft formed the refolution d`bringing his
Motion before the Houfe. He was therefore at a

.

lofs how to aa refpeeting the requefi of the
Noble Lord. If he acceded to it, he mull a&
contrary to his own conviaion : if he perfifted in
it, he might incur fomething like the Imputation
of obflinacy : perhaps it might be more advifable
to wait the expreffion of the general with of
their Lordffiips ; and if that fliould appear to be
contrary to his own, he mould doubtlefs feel it
incumbent on him not to oppofe his individual
opinion to the general leak of the Houfe.
Lord Romney joined in the requeft of the
Noble Earl (Carlifle), and trolled to the candour
of his Noble Friend for his acquiefe.ng in the Tea-
tons that bad been urged for deferring his Motion.
He felt as deeply as his Noble Friend•the almolt
unexampled calamities under which the country
laboured, and the abfolutc neceffity of invefliga-
ting the caufes from which they had arifen. This
inveftigation could not well be proceeded upon
under the prefent unfettled (tate of the Executive
Adminiftration of the country nothing ultimate-
ly decifive was yet known upon that fubjea ; and
this indecifion was among the principal reafons
which induced him to deprecate the dtlcutfion of
his Noble Friend's motion for the prefent. He
only wired for time to, make up his mind upon
the fubjea ; to cnter upon fo delicate and difficult
a dikuffion without due confideration might be
productive of molt unneceffirry and ill-grounded
alarm : of the neceffity of it, however, he was
fully convinced, and he was now prepared to fay,
that it was no (mall addition to the prefent perils
and iiirmay of the country to obferve, that in pro-
portion as its refources were wailed and diminiffi-
ed, in the fame ratio was it deprived of what talent
and ability might have been exerted to wield with
cSth the little that remained for extricating the
Nation from its orient accumulated calamiues.
Earl Ferr—MpLoids, 1141,411 T declared my in-
tention on Monday fe'nnight, of tupporting the pre-
fer* motion of enquiry, rhopc that will plead my
CICtIA for troubling your Lnrdthips with a Vary

few words. The Noble Meyer of it has fupported
it viith fo much ability, that he has left me room
to fay very little. I have leen too much of en-
quiries in this and the other Houfe of Parliament,
to augur a great deal from this; but much will
be gained, if we can prevent in future the wade
of the public treafure on fruitlefs expeditions—ex-
travagant Embattles—and fubfidies to foreign
Princes. Was there ever a time in which ,econo-
my, at home and abroad, was ever more required ?
Can any one fay this has been the cafe ? If Peace
can be obtained on honourable terms; it mull be
the objed of every man's with ; but if that cannot
be, I pray GoD, that every honed and honourable
man may come forward and gain the confidence of
their Country, by laying afide all party differences,
and endeavour to extricate us from the date we
are now in. My Lords, I have no information
but what I hear from the Newfpapers, and if the
changes talked of are real, I am confident it will
add no credit to the Minifters that retire :—No
man ever loved his Majefty more, or had a great•
er refped for his Minifters than I had ; but evil
advice has got round the Throne of the Exche-
quer, and changes of the mod alarming nature
have of confequence taken place • if it is a trick, no-
thing could have been Co wickedly advifed, and it
it is real, nothing more ludicrous ; and, if it was
not in the preterit momentous moment, &mild do.
fervedly be laughed at. It really looks to me like
a farce. I have often feen on the doge where fo
many judges are placed on chairs, and immediate-
ly they arc twißed round, in which are fet old
women, and they fing
Why may not old women do u well as old me'
—I did, my Lords, on Monday lad, intend to
fay a few words, expreffing my congratulations
tan the addition to the Houle by the Lords from
-Ireland ; but I was fo overcome with the heat, I
was obliged to retire. Ido not, my Lords, pre-
fume to offer any advice to my Noble Brethren,
the Peers of Ireland; but from a very long exile-.
rience, I may be forgiven for jolt offering them a
hint, that their LordThips would be on their guard,
left tome enterprifing Lawyer fhould come from
Ireland, and without having an acre of land in
any part of the three United Kingdoms, might
get into Parliament, cut thole cords that bind the
Noble Lords and great landed men together, and
when he has thus weakened them by difunion,
railed animofities and divifions among them, then
come to Downing-ftreet, and bargain for all their
confequence and patronage, and leave them fo
ftript as not to hare it in their power to recommend
the refpeetable character of a Jude.,, upon the Bench
nor even a low officer of excife.—My Lords, I
beg I may not be fuppofed to mean any thing
nauonal or particular to Ireland, for nothing 07
that kind has yet taken place; but examples may
be found from the Northern part of this country,.
without fcarching antienthittory.
Lord CARLIS Le role to prevent the idea being
entertained by their Lordlhips, that in any thing
he had faid to diffuade the Noble Lord from per.
fidinorr in his motion, he could be influenced by
any defire to give his countenance and fupport to
the new Adminiftration that was about to be
formed. Nothing could be more diftant from his
intentions and thoughts. On the contrary, he
was fenfsble how inadequate it met prove to the
arduous talk which it was attempting to under-
take; and indeed to give any encouragement to the
principles upon which the new Miniftcrs were fup-
pofed to come into power, would be a. bale dere-
lidion of every duty ie Houfe owed to their
King, to their Country, and themfelves. The
potent moft alarming fituation of the Empire called
for the ableft heads and hands to dire& and ad-
minifter its affairs ; and could any expedation be
rationally entertained of effeding our falvation by
tisercertions of fuch a milerable, weak, and rick.
etty admini flration as that which was now fuppofed
to be undertaking the helm of the State ? Hither-
to a hope at leaff was held out by the late Admi-
niftration that fonietlaing would be done in fa-
vour of the Catholics of Ireland ; to that the na-
tional honour has been pledged, and if that hope
is now to be fuddenly extinguifbed, what can be
expeded to enfue but all the horrors and mifchiefs
to which men can be inftigated by complete defpair?
Lord Gasevitir then rote, a..d fpoke to the
following effed s—My Lords, if the queftion were
merely whether the Noble Lord fhould this night
bring forward or withdraw his motion ? I cer-
tainly fhould not have offcredmyfelf to your Lard-
fhips' notice. The fence of the honfe has been un-
equivocally declared, and to that the Noble Lord
has declared h imfelf ready to how. Indeed on occa.
lions of this kind, it never has happened that fuch
motions have been pert fled in, and I am lure that
there can now be no inclinatiop to break through
Parliamentary ufage. But, My Lords, from tome
eapre&ons which dropped from thofe who have
taken a part in this converfation, I feel myfelf
called upon fhortly to addicts you, and to explain
to you the fituation in which I now Rand. And
let me begin by deprecating all warmth of &Rut-
fion at thetprefent moment. For GOD'S fake, My
Lords, let us be cautious, prudent, and difereet,
and let us refrain from every topic which may in-
flame the public mind, which may add to the vio-
lence of faction, and increafe the difficulties of the
countries. By halty proceedings, by forming an
opinion without proper materials, and openly ex-
preffing it, we may hailer the arrival of thofe
evils which we fear, and which we mutt all
be fo anxious to avert. For Gon's fake then, My
Lords, let your conduit be cool, temperate, and
manly. Neither yield to caufelefs dcfpondence,
nor agitate queflions upon which you are not yet
in a htuation to form a proper judgment,!and the
premature dikulfion of which mull be productive
of infinite mitchiel. Opportunities wiU yet occur
when thefe fubjeCts may be canvitlfed with fafety.
A painful duty yet remains for me to fulfill—to
4peak of myfelf. From tiffs I will not &rink, as a
due regard to my own cha:ader, as well as becom-
ing relped to your Lordlhips, call upon me to pro-
ceed. Some time ago, My Lords, the Noble Lord
who now fits near me, (Lord Spencer), another
Noble Lord who is not now prefent, but whore
abfence is only mentioned by fzverc indifpolition
(Lord Cbathani), together }with And fe-
ecral of his Maj•-•fly's Sei Tants in the Hotq of

tommons, thought it expedient that the benefits
of the Union fhould be rendered as „great and as
extenfive as poffible, by certain difabilities being
removed, under which a great portion of the in.l
habitants of Ireland now labour. Imagining that
this meafure could alone be effeftual if coming
from the Executive Government, we felt it our
duty to propofe it to thofe who direct his Majefty's
Councils. It was not deemed eligible, and we
were unable to prevail. Our opinion of its policy
remaining unaltered, ftill thinking that that, and
that alone could eftablilh the tranquillity and prof-
perky of the Empire on a permanent bafis, we
eonfidered ourfelves as bound to retire. Accord-
ingly we tendered to his Majefty the refignation
of our leveret employments, and he has been gra-
cioufly pleated to difpcnfe with our fervices.—
Thus, My Lords, we only hold our offices till our
fucceffors are appointed.
My Lords, it is impollible for me to fit down
without expreffing the gratitude I feel for the in-
dulgence, confidence, and fupport I have expe-
rienced during the long and eventful period' have
had a (hare in his Majefty's Councils. I have had
to Verve a kind and indulgent Killer. He has
fi:irmly treated me with attention while I have
Lori
in his fervice; and his acceptance of my re.
-fignation he accompanied with the moll Battering
irks of regard. This conduct has made a deep
and laying imprellion on my heart. My boron)
is filled with fenfations of refpeet, gratitude, and
attachment, which I feel unable to exprefs. My
obligations to your torditips are equally deep,
and I hope I am equally fenfible of them. You
have long continued to view my conduet with
approbation, and to honour me with your confi-
dence. This goodnefs I cannot claim to f-ave de.
ferved. My abilities I have exerted to the utmoft
in the fervice of my country; but to abilities I
do not pretend. My intentions alone I can boaft;
to thefe I may perhaps fay I have added diligence,
patience, perfeverance, and vigour. The period'
during which I and my colleagues have been in
office, has been critical beyond example, and the
country has been threatened with greater dangers
than any to which it had before been candid.—
The Conftitution, however, is (till entire, and the
nation continues independent and powerful ; while
many of thofe around it have been firipped of
every thing that is valuable, and reduced to the
molt abjeft fervitude. May we hope that our fer-
vices have contributed to the cfcape which this
country has made from the evils that threatened
it. It is our confolation to relied that the fame
vigorous line of conduit will kill be purfued
Though we have retired from office, no change of
meafures will take place, but the fyftem which has
already proved fo falutary will continue to be
aged upon by our fucceffors. Thopgh we mat
differ from them in Tome points, in molt there is
no difference between us ; and while they continuel
to ail in a firm, refolute, and manly manner, they
(ball have our fteady fupport. Our molt anxious
with is (and though I exprefs it loft, it is neareft
to my heart), that they may receive from your
Lordfhips and the Public the fame fupport which
we have experienced. Divifion, indocifion, timi-i
dity, and defpondence mull, at the prefent me. -+
ment, be ruin. It is only by unanimity and firm-1
nefs that the country can be Caved.
Lord MoixA aso expreffed his anxious with
;that the Noble Lord might be prevailed upon to
poftpone his Motion. While, however, he ex-
preffed this with, he was ready to pay every tribute
*of praife to the zeal and good intentions of the
Noble Lord. Indeed thefe intentions were already
in a great meafure anfwcred by the ftrong fenfe
which fo large a roiling of the Houfe fcemed to
feel of the abfolute necellity of an inquiry into the
caufes of the increafed and increafing dangers of
the country. That fenfe was unequivocally ex-
preffed, and no doubt would have its due weight
and force where it was intended to operate. lie
was indeed fatisfied that it mull make a very fe-
rious impreffion on the mind of his Majelly, and
of the country at large ; and as the ohs& of the
Noble Lord's Motion would thereby be in a great
degree accomplifhed, he trolled it might be de-
lotted for the prefent, on account of the other ob-
jedions to which it appeared to be liable.
Earlpreacset robe merely to afore their Lord-
Sips, that he molt cordially and completely ac-
quiefced in the affurances that had been made by
his Noble Friend near him (Lord Grenville).
His Noble Friend had fully explained the reafons
by which he was induced to refign the place which
be had held in his Majefly's Councils, and the in-
tention by which he was actuated, of continuing
his fupport of the general fyftem that was to be
adopted by his fucccffors. Candour, he thought,
called Ow him for this declaration; and as it
had already been fo ably expreffed by his Noble
Friend, he fhould not attempt laying any thing
*tore in addition to it.
Lord Dals/try laid, It was not without much
(mane'reha that he could daft from pre ffing his
at the prefent moment, fo thoroughly was
ISe convinced of its propriety and urgent neceflity.
As, however, he had in the outlet confeffod his
readinefs to poftpone it, if fuch &mild appear to
be the general with of the Houk, he would now
confent to do In, as he perceived that with to be
very ftronglyexpreffed. He could not, however,
Content to withdraw it altogether, though he was
Willing to defer it for a few days. if therefore
illy Noble Lord would rife up and fay when it
might be convenient, fate, refpediul, and proper
to bring it forward, be would pledge liiinfelf to
be ready at that time.
No Noble Lord having rifen to give any opi-
nion as to the day,
Lord D proceeded to give notice, that he
fhould bring forward his Motion onWednefday tht
tBth Ou the fuggeftion however of Lord
Citeayssts, it was further pofiponed till Friday
the sods, for which day their Lordthips were or-
dered to be lummoned,
CALL 6r THE MOUSE.
After Lord Detests- had withdrawn his motion,
The Earl of R &alma role ; and having obferved
that at the prefent awful nil's, the Houfe could
not be too fully attended, when the Noble Sarl's
motion was brought forward, he moved, That the
Houle l c called over on Kid ay the aoth.

• ';

Lord Gass:vit. begged leave to hint to his No.
ble Friend, that it was very unufual to move a Call
of that Houle, unlets in particular cafes, fuch as the
Trial of a Peer, &c. ; that therefore he hoped his
Noble Friend would notperfill in a motioncalculatvd
to create alarm and difmay throughout the country.
Lord RADNOR faid, it was neither irregular nor
unprecedented to call over the Houfe ; and that
the tole queftion was, Whether it was unfit or not,
that every means fhould be retorted to, in order to
convene a full attendance at a period fo uncom•
monly awful and critical to the country I
Lord Mutoaava rote to exprefs his earneft and
anxious wifhes, that the Noble Earl might Rill be
prevailed on to withdraw his motion, fine it tended
to throw an air of greaterfolemnity on the occafion
than it required. His Lordfhip pointed out tl.t.
bad confequences of unneceffarily alarming
public mind, and fuggefted the great probabilir v of
the Houfe being very fully attended without a:,),
Call being ordered, as there could not be an indi-
vidual Peer, who could with any fort of convcni.
ence attend the Houfe, who would be abfent under
circumftances fo estremely interefting to the pub.
lic ; but much as he lamented the great lots of
talent the country had fuftained, be thought it
could anfwer no beneficial purpofe to throat a
greater air of awfulnefs and folemnity upon it than
appeared to him to be neccary.
Lord Hot-LAND rote immediately to recommend
it to the Noble Earl to perfift in his motion for a
Call of the Houfe, which he contended was abto-
lutely Peccary. The fituation into which the inca-
pacity of his Majefty's Minifters, and their repeated
errors, had brought the country, could not be
treated with too much ferionfnefs and folemnity.
He faid, that the dfnufal of /be Matifleri war not it.
fey as eve!, inafinuch as more miferable and inca.
gable men as Statetmen could not fucceed or Ray
behind them ; but that the mode of their going
out, and hill more the caufe affignedforit,added to
the embarraffment of the country, and encreafed
the neceffity of enquiry. That their difmilial,
had it been on the lots of confidence in Parlia-
ment, or if it entailed the change of meafures and
Allem, would have been a great bleffing indeed;
but, on the contrary, they teemed to be the vic-
tims of that fyitem to which they had fo long
proftituted their talents, and under the influence
of that fatlion which condoled and fioorted the
American aver, which war the fovea of all our ado
rides, and which bad no tijfirslin and no mercy for
any one who hefitated in the career of fervility.
The firh moment that they hefitated they were
difcarded. The moment that they who had fa.
crificed to the fadion the happinefs, comfort, and
tranquility of Ireland teemed difpofed to grant a
boon, or to make a conceffion to the People, the
very femblance of liberty, the late return to the
mere appearance of virtue in one folitary inftance
cancelled all obligation, and railed the indigna-
tion of this narrow-minded, this cruel, this bi-
gotted, and this eleftrueive policy :
reiterant tempera lone
servta
And they were ditmiffed with the fame horn and
contempt as all others had been, whofe principles
. or whofe meafures were for one moment hoftile to
that deteftable faftion. But the occafion of their
&finial added an additional motive to enquiry,
and one more calamity-to the county by endan-
gering the tranquillity of Ireland. For that rm•
fon he fu ported the Call.
Lord RADNOR again Rated, that he could not
content to give up his Motion, which he was con-
viac'ed was effentially neceffary.
The Eatl of Ciaaa faid, be rote to join his No.
ble Friend (Lord Grenville) in deprecating the
idea of a Call, as well as a premature difcuflion
of a fubjee which had been more than once
alluded to, and which was of fo extremely delicate
a nature, and at the fame time of inch magnitude,
det it ought not even to be alluded to, before it
came regularly under confideration. With regard
to the Call of the Houle, it was fo unufual, that
there was not a precedent for its having been
ever retorted to, except only in the cafe of the
trial of.a Peer; and if it were now to be infifted
on, mull be coupled with a meafure which would
require it to be delayed to a much later day than
Friday the sods, namely, the ordering of circu-
lar letters to be written and fent to every Peer,
defiring his attendance on his duty in that Houle.
That meafure, his Lordfhip faid, bad always ac•
companied a Motion for a Call of the Houle,
and ought ever to be coupled with it. At recta
it was indifpenfably neceftary, as feveral Noble
Lords were at a confiderable diftance, in differ-
ent parts of the United Kingdom. With regard
to what bad been called Catholic Emancipation,
before that delicate fubjeCt were brought under
ditcuffion, he would advife Noble Lords to take
advantage of the Union that had recently taken
place, and make life of the opportunity it pre-
tented of enabling theta to make themfelves well
informed of the nature and rharaCter of Ireland,
with which they teemed, as yet, to be but !lightly
acquainted. A greater heap of combuftibles than
Ireland confifted of could not be found. Catholic
Emancipation had already been found to mean
rebellion in that country. In fee, ninety-tne
Roman Catholics out of a. hundred did not care a
tingle jot about it. Others underltood it to mean
the abolition of tythes, and a more equal divificm
of property. The Irifb peafant, for inftance, con-
ceived that when that was granted, every oar
of them was to have his tythes taken off, and
a grant of ten acres of land allotted him. In
thort, fo various were their opinions upon that
great qiieftion, and fo violent were their paflions,
that he could not but deprecate the premature feat-
tering of loofe infinuations upon the fubjee among
them, and thus rattily and inconftderately lighting
up a flame which nothing but mere deluges et
blood could poffibly extinguifh. His Lorslfliip fai.ft
the Noble Earl who had urft introduced the men-
tion of the Emancipation of the Catholics of Ire'
Land (Lord Carlifle,) had been long enoughtq that
kingdom to know the abundant danger of inflam-
ing the minds of thelrdh, prernatortlyperfoad-
ing them that Catholic Emancipation was about
to-be granted to them. With regard to the Call
of the Houfe, Lord Clare (aid, if no other Peer
would, he would take the fiat of the Houk sena