Star.
London, England, 1812-01-18 00:00:00

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Mr. BRAND could not consider the Droits of
Admiralty as the property of the Crown. He thought
i 1
establishment was settled on his Majesty. with re-
they were given up to the Public what the Civil List
oil NG'S Patl'EN l' Wok 241 LOZENGES.
Ispect to the 41170,000 additional which it was propose.
WORMS are the most frequent sources of Chil-
dren's Diseases.—Their symptoms every parent and guar- ed to add to the Civil List, he must say a few words.
dian of children should be acquainted with. They occasion loss The allowance of lel 70,0;.0 for the support of his
Majesty's Household he thought 811011, moderate;—
but it had been stated that 4514000 a the Prince's
they bring an convulsions; they affect the growth of the body,
of appetite, a paleness of the coloor of the face, emaciation and
irregular state of the bowels, attended after with violent pains;
appropriated towards the ' . '
40,000 also be appiopriated to the Civil List,
d they prove fatal, by ending In a consumption or decay. Both 1 income was to be appmp Civil List.
"as a preventative and cure of thew alarming contplakits, the above i'l'his left £70,000 unappropriated. Why should not
excellent Medicine is
countrylled, on the testimony of tke this
although it might still remain ender highest characters in this , toth in rank and Tespectsb,.
thy, to hate no equal. Their public approbation, given to the der the appellation
of the Prince' in ozne ' teadtaking Proprietor,-from a personal knowledge of its wontkrful successs c , ins of an additio.
to the!: own families, stamps Its merit beyond' crmpethion, and nal irlesooo from the Public ?
uutlther:sioNnl)4l‘Cresthea4 I. would .
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.
can boast. Parents and others, who have the care of child, en, said gives a sanction wit, of which no other Mediclue of the kind
the additional expense which would be incurred dit
la. the additional 5e70,000 was irmilted to *Orpl•
should have this remedy as a family Medicine to resort to, whew- .•
21131 t of the King ; the £70,000 left to the Prince
ever the stomach or bowels of Children are any way disordered, ;
which it will always be found to relieve. ; the Civil List expenditure, by the separate establish.
n'sciacor:Le-11448;frns.' 'ain't'. would incur in his character of Prince of
odsoe,tl.l,owndohontes.li:;
sharp
puil
anreidailße. aitameti,lnifoaritidsmßo
be appropriated to the additional e
Allthot and Mallory Porsca; Hall sad Johnston, Ossport; tu"." Xpencs
wmco he
H ,flourable Gentleman ( Mr. Creevey), respect' It
Wales. With respect to whet hAd fallen from the
hf.irrperthceentDro.
iundits,OhfeAcodunitairaotry
watu•
ydiotiate
Citulleitn:all'noriandand 3,agoksvb:Soheertlrs;,elsNet;:wecokNaandn4 GRilobwe'rtasnaPlTT:l2tehr,
d
asKncrlt.auldidbuliery,riLivilinderpoolw;inSntairYsiarns4aßCdo. BLiryminchnsgbirlan;chßile'llingerei
fourthe gandia.ntas
gram alone had been made out of the Droits of Ad.
alt individual, and out of the Luz aad a
Trewma.
,nb,urgEshet7B;2xStnieritha,nMd
144aade.DourtOthakieReciaLiri igiiio.:bww3cotyi;ntut3utg.tut
aledie
ipeterter';
s,lßwrhvarendersuat;imSiriapveTELLl:DetvdespuouCo..9.lll4;
anorwaal!rcseths.l44.
each.

half pf.r cent. fund no grant had been made for the
last tour years.
Mr. BRAND replied, the £70,000 left of the
Prince's exchequer income would be left entirely at
his own disposal.
Mr. YORK observed, that £17,000 out ofthe sum
wa; applied to the Princess of Wales, and the Prince
had other private claims on the rest.
Mr. FREEMANTLE thought the provision pro-
posed to be made for the King was dissatisfactory.
The House had a straight-forward path to pursue.
At the King's accession to the Throne, the House
had entered into a contract with the King to allow
him the Civil List, and had no power to take it from
him, any more than it could the estate of a private
individual. The House ought not to have separated
tha Prince of Wales's civil and political duties. The
whole Civil List should have been transferred to him;
and, if necessary for his Majesty's comfort, the
House ought to have granted £500,000 addition to
the Civil List.

The Resolutions were then 'oro.ight up, and
agreed to, and a Bill ordered to be brought in pur-
suant thereto.

NEWSPAPER .OBSERVATIONS.

Mr. SHERIDAN wished t say a few words re- ;
specting the Prince's Message in 1803. It appear-
ed
that this had ofl only Int:en misunderstood by the
Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (the Chan-
cellor
of the Exchequer), but that it hid also been
misunderstood out of doors, and in particular, that
the Editor of .t re,pect morning paper had fallen
into precisely the same mistake. With the permis-
sion of the House he would read the passage he
alluded to.
The SPEAKER asked thz! Right Hon. Gentleman
whether it was his intention to make any complaint
upon that subject to the House, as their time could
tot be fruitlessly taken up with mere criticisms on
occurrences out of doors ? As this was a very serious
matter, he thought it was his duty to w.trn the Right
Hon. Gentleman of the consequences.
Mr. SHERIDAN said, he would not urge the
matter farther. He hoped his conduct had always
been sufficiently respectful to the Chair and the Henise.
He could assure the Speaker, however, that in the
course of his Parliamentary life, he had frequently
known notice taken of minor misrepresentations out
of doors, without the smallest intention of founding
any specific complaint on them.
The SPEAKER said, if such was the pleasure of
the House, the Right Hollow able Gentleman might
proceed.
On this there were a few cries of " Question!" and
the subject was dropped.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

Mr. YORKE proceeded to move the Vote of Sea-

men and Marines for be present year, which the
Right Honourable Gentleman observed, no change
having taken place in the interim, would be the same
as list year, namely, 145,000 mo, including 35,1,00
znarines. The Right Honourable Gentleman pro.
seeded to move the following Resolutions :
£3045,661, for the Maiiitenatice of Stamen and Marines for
1813.
£3,100;000, for the Wear and Tear of the Navy for the year
1812; and,
£649,750 for the Ordnance
On the Motion of Mr. WztAttrox, the following
'urns were voted :
£201.00, for the American Loyalists.
411,000, for American Emigrants.
.69 ,000, to Cie St. Doming,is
£2,062, to the Dutch Imigrams.
.C 123,000, to the French Ciergy and Laity.
£3,400, to the Frei ch Emigrants.
£6OO, to the Irish Dissoring Ministers.

vf1,700, to the Fitglish ditto.
5e12,000, to defray the Expences of Bow-street Police Office
for 1813.
.e70,g00, far support of Ccnvicts afloat.
• ie50,000, for Lass! Expences for 1311.
5e21,000, for Printing for the Lords.
1C2,00:1, fur Printing the Votes of the House of Commons for
1811.

..e4,4F.7 .ss. 6d. for Deficiency of Bill for Printing for 18i0.
Mr. TIERNEY here took an opportunity of ad-
verting to the expensive manner in which Reports
and Plans for the inspection of Committees were
printed, and particularly those on the Irish Bog
Drainage, which, he said, were executed on the
finest paper, the largest size, and at a most enormous
expence.
The SPEAKER was happy the attention of th,2
House had been called to this subject; it had first
been adverted to on the subject of the engravings for
the Port Patrick Committee, and it was then ordered
that no engr.ving for Committees should be on a
larger scale than a folio sheet, but with his (the Spea-
ker's) consent; and to this rule he had always ad-
hered, unless convinced by the Committee that they
could not understand the subject under consideration
but on a Lager plan. The Bog Drainage, however,
was not a Committee—it was a Poliamentary Com-
mission ; but he had not consented to the engravings
being executed on the plan they had been, till it was
represented to him to be absolutely necessary ; and
that subdivisions were necessary, which would not
have been d;stinguishable on a smaller scale.

Mr. TiE RNEY wished he had possessed a plan,
sts he was eoriain the subdivisions, if displayed by
biro, would have been distinguishable in the gallery.
,—(if laugh )
, The next Resolution proposed was—

- - . .
£13,000, for Printing for the pre4.ent ziessim.
p,Sou, for stationary for both Kitties.
4E426, for examining East India Accounts.
£Ol9, for the Expences of the Tnan.e. Pu:ic
sE4,ti.lo, for the How-street Horse Patrole.
And several wher Annual 'Votes.
Tile Resolutions b2ing agreed to, th:! Report was
ordered to be received to-morrow.
TILE LOSS OP 11,12. ST. GEORGE, ETC.
Mr. WHITBREAD wished to put a question to
the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Yorke), re-
specting the loss of the St. George and other ships
in the Baltic ; he did not wish to impute any blame to
• him, but to he informed how it happened that the
large ships continued to so late a period in these dan-
ger, us seas.
Mr. YORKE, in reply, said, the orders of the Ad-
miralty were, that all the convoys should be ready to
s.sil by the Ist of November ; it appeared they were
so, but were weather-hound, and nut able to attempt
it till the 17ih; and er hiving weighed on that
day, to the amount of 100 sail, a violent gale arose,
and several of them ‘veie driven athwart the Saint

Gen:ge,who in avoiding them ran on shore, unship-
.pcd her ru.ider, and sustained considerable damage ;
hOWocri after r.. 61, as wel as she. cotsitl,

proceeded under jury-masts, and so little apprehen-
sion did Admiral Reynolds entertain of her safety,
that proceeded with all her crew, and a fortnight
after was in the Sound, where the melancholy catas-
trophe took place ; the misfortune, however, was en-
tirely the effect of tbe.weather, :Ind circumstances
which no human foresight could provide against.—
All that could be done had been done by the Admi-
ralty, in provi,ling her with stores end all things ne-
cessny for the service she had to perform. .
Mr. WHITBREAD expressed himself satisfied
with the explanation just made.

STATE OF THE MKTROPoLIS.
Mr. Secretary RYDER said, that in ri,ing to call
the attention of the House to the state of the nightly
watch of the metropolis, it was not his intention to
detain them for any considerable time. He must
premise, that it the alarm which now pervades the
metropolis, had merely rested on the circumstance
of the horrible and atrocious murders lately commit-
ted on two whole families, he should nothave thought
it adviscable on that account to bring forward any
new general measure. He was convinced that no
nightly watch or police could be so organised as to
prevent the possibility of such crimes being commit.
ted, it ruffians could be found in existence hardened
and abandoned enough to commit them. That this
was the case was evident, from the history of other
countries, whose police was not restrained by those
considerations which prevail in a free country, but
which had all the power and resources of a military
despotism. It was known by the gentlemen who
had resided in those countries, that notwithstanding
the extreme rigour of the police, bad men were still I
found to perpetrate the most horrid crimes ; and
atrocities, nearly equal to that of the murder of
those two families, were nightly committed. The
very alarm and dismay that the murder of those two
families had occasioned in the metropolis, was of it-
self one of the best proofs of the extreme rarity of
such enormity. At the same time, it was impossi-
ble to shut one's eyes to the fact, that there had been '
within the last two or three months a great increase
of crimes of a nature somewhat similar, although
not of so great enormity or so deep a dye. The num-
; her of such offences greatly exceeded what it had
done in former years—although at the same time he
must observo, that many accounts which had found
their way km the public papers were either untrue or
much exag:.Terated. By the law of the country the
nightly watch of the different parishes was placed in
the hands of the parishioners themselves, and it was
not until the year 1774, that any general law was
made upon the subject. The parishioners were called
upon at the different vestries to appoint trustees and
directors of the nightly watch—and those trustees
and directors appointed the wat:hmen and the officers
who immediately superintended them. If the num-
' her of crimes had increased, it must however be re-
,
collected, that the extent and population of the me-
tropolis had also enormously increased of late years.
It was the duty of the trustees and directors to ap-
point able-bodied men, and no other, Ia; the nightly
watch ; but it was most notorious, that they were
not usually persons of that description. They seemed
on the contrary, to be often men who from age and
i infirmity were incapable of obtaining a livelihood in
any other way, and who were placed there rather as
a provision fir themselves, than as a means of pro-
f viding security for the lives and properties of the in-
habitants of the metropolis. Besides the general man-
ner in which the nightly watch was appointed in this
metropolis, he had also felt it his duty to turn his at-
, tention to the regulations which had been provided by
different Acts of Parliament for the watching of par-
ticular districts ; and from thebest consideration which
he could give to the whole of the case, he was of opi-
Ilion, that instead of proposing any measure entirely
I new, it would be sufficient to fortify and strengthen
the principles which bad been hitherto laid down for
the establishment of a nightly watch, correcting at
the same time those abuses from which the weakness
and inefficiencynow complained of entirelyproceeded.
• The Legislature had, at various times, from various
motives, thought it necessary to make different regu-
lations for different districts. The parish of Pancras,
• for example, was divided into no less than seven dis-
tricts, every one of which had separate acts for the
regulation of its nightly watch. In all those districts,
!however, as well as in the several parishes of the me-
tropolis, the general principles of the system of the
nightly watch were nearly the same ; and he saw no
necessity at present for any great innovation in the
present system. Instead of proposing, in the first in-
stance, any new measure to the House, he should
move for the appointment of a Committee, to consi-
der tile state of the nightly watch of the metropolis,
and the parts adjacent; and he should move, that all
the members of London, Westminster, Middlesex,
and Surrey, should b. members of that Committee.
The first name lie should mention was Sir C. Price.

On the question being put for the appointment of
a Committee,

Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY expressed his surprise,
that, on a subject of such important interest, the Right
Honourable Secretary had not thought it necessary to
propose any thing farther than the appoinment of a
Committee to examine the state of the nightly watch.
No person who had witnessed the consternation and
alarm which had recently pervaded the metropolis,
could suppose that the dreadful crimes which had
been lately committed proceeded merely from a de-
fective arrangement of the nightly watch. It appeared
to hi m thzt the enquiry should be directed much farther,
and that it should take in the great increase of felonies
of late years, as well as the whole system of the po-
lice establishment. As to the great increase of
crimes, he spoke only from common report, and from
those common sources from which opinions were ge-
nerally formed,; hut from those sources of informa.
tion, it appeared that the number of felonies had
greatly increased in the last year, and that the crimes
had assumed a more atrocious character than at any
former period. The gradual and regular increase of
crimes in the metropolis, might be judged from the
returns which were on the table of the House, of the
number of persons committed to stand their trials at
the Old Bailey, for, felonies, during the last five
ycars. It appeared from those returns, that is the
year 1806, the number of persons committed, was
899 ; in the year 1807, it was 1017 ; in the year •
1808, it amounted to 1110; in the year 1809, to
1342 ; and in the year 1810, the last year mentioned
in those riturns, the number was 1424. It must be
observed, too, that this regular and rapid increase
of crimes had taken place during five years of war;

although, in general, it is in the period of peace
that most crimes are usually committed. War gene-
rally occupies those daring and enterprising spirits,
who in times of peace are the mqst likely to commit
crimes; and many of those characters, having been so
occupied, of erwards turn out most useful and merite-
rious citizens. It would be well that the House should
enquire what were the causes of so great an increase of
crimes during a period of war? and if those causes were
once ascertained, a more permanent remedy might be
applied. He believed that the system of punishments
which was so obstinately persevered in was a great
cause of the increase of crimes. The punishment of
death which was denounced by the laws for so many
offences, was, in fact, but seldom inflicted. The mode
of imprisoning persons of all descriptions promiscu-
ously, contributed, as he believed, very materially to
the increase of crime ; as, if a person committed for
some slight offence was thus compelled to associate
with the most depraved and hardened offenders, there
could be little chance of his reformation. He pecu-
liarly disapproved of the manner in which the con-
victs were imprisoned in the hulks ; and so far from
any reformation being produced in the moral cha-
racter of the convicts by any thing they saw there, he
considered them as colleges of vice, from which those
who were discharged returned upon the public, fami-
liarized with the contemplation of the most atrocious
crimes, and almost obliged by their necessities and
desperate situation to perpetrate them. He had been
informed that within the last year a great number of per-
sons had been discharged from the hulks, after having
been imprisoned there for the term of their seetence.
This circumstance might, of itself; be a very consider-
able cause of the great increase of crimes during the
last year. He thought that some reforms in the cri-
minal law of the country would produce a considerable
effect. Upon this subject he had already moved the
House for the appointment of a Committer, and the re-
port of that Committee was now upon their table.—
There was another subject which he thought was fully
as necessary to attend to as the state of the nightly
watch, and that was the state of the police of the me-
tropolis. He disapproved highly of the rewards which
were given by individuals to the police officers, for the
detection of offenders. Those rewards, as he conceiv-
ed, instead of preventing the commission of crimes,
went rather to increase the number of them. It was the
direct personal interest of those police officers not to
check the commission of smaller offences, but to lie
by until crimes were committed of such magnitude
as to entitle them to the high rewards which are
usually given on those occasions. As this waa their
obvious interest, it was hardly to be expected, that
men of their condition would act in opposition to their
own interests, on any refined principles of moralty
and public good. He understood from common re-
port, that individuals had no chance of recovering,
by the exertions of the police officers, any property
stolen from them, without offering very high rewards.
He thought, that those rewards had the same opera-
lion with the Police Officers, as what was called ex-
pedition-money in the Public Offices. The one
checked the exertions of the officers. and the other
prevented expedition in the public offices, unless when
tire rewards were paid. It was once in contempla-
tien to abolish altogether those rewards for the ap-
ptcheit3ion of offenders. It appeared to him however
that the Police Officers ought not to share thersa—
bat that they should in some cases be given to acces-
saries after the fact, to induce them to discover their
more guilty accomplices. It was the bounden duty
of the Police Officers to prevent crime, and appre-
hend offenders ; and their exertions in their public du-
ties ought not to be paid for out of the private purses
of the individuals who have been robbed of their pro.
perty, and who apply for their interference. At
present it is said, that there is such a familiarity be-
tween the police-officers and the worst characters in
society, that the former perfectly knew the offenders'
haunts, and could find any man of them as ready as
a merchant was to be found at the Royal Exchange.
—As to what the Right Honourable Secretary had
said of the frequency of such atrocious murders in
cities under the strictest police, he must say, that he
believed that lie was entirely mistaken. He had him-
self, at different times, resided in Paris, and never
heard of any thing at all equal in atrocity to those
crimes which had been recently committed. He be.
lieved that very few Gentlemen could be found in
that House, who, in any city in Europe (whatever
might be the organization of the police), had disco-
vered that crimes like these were frequently commit-
ted. The Right Honourable Gentleman had merely
alluded to the nightly watch ; but it appeared to him
that he should have also considered the state of the
police by day. It was not enough that the nightly
watchmen should be stout able-bodied men ; but it
was also necessary that the citizens should be pro-
tected in the day-time from those gangs of ruffians,
who commit their crimes with the greatest audacity
in the face of day. It appeared to him that the Right
Hon.. Gentleman ought to have extended his consi-
deration to all those subjects,' instead of confining
them merely to the nightly-watch.
Mr. W. SMITH also thought that the Right Ho.
nourable Secretary ought to have extended the ob-
jects of his inquiry, and he hoped that he would still
be induced to do so. As to the horrible and barba-
rous murders lately committed en two entire families,
it was certainly very possible that they might have
been committed if the nightly watch had been under
the best regulation ; and, indeed, it did not appear in
those instances any blame could justly attach to the
nightly watch. If a set of villains capable of com-
mitting such crimes was permitted to roam at large
tl:rough this metropolis, such crimes might be com-
mitted without any fault of the watchmen. As long
as such villains were in the metropolis, he hardly
knew any other effect that even improving the con-
dition of the nightly watch would have, except driv.
ing those ruffians into the environs of London, to
commit their burglaries and crimes in places where
there is no nightly watch. He really could not
avoid feeling scandalized by the familiarity which is
commonly supposed to exist between the Police Offi-
cers and the disturbers of the public peace. It is said
that they commonly associate together, and drink at
the same public-houses. If this be the case, can it be won-
dered at that enot mous crimes are committed, when
offenders meet this sot t of countenance andencourage-
mem ? He knew some districts where the care and
attention of some of the leading parishioners to the
comforts of the -poor, had tended materially to dimi.
nish the growth of crime. He could state as an ex-
ample, tint in the populous parish of Christ Church,

'7'

Spitalfields, the number of crimes was comparatively
very small, and a great degree of decency of rnatspass
prevailed among the lower classes. A considerabit
reformation had been brought about in that district
by the great attention of the principal inhabitants
and if they were equally attentive in other district
he thought a great reformation might take place ill
the morals of the lower classes of the metropolis.,
He believed that certain regulatio is with respect es
public-houses, and to those characte:s which nigh&
infest the streets, might be productive of great
vantage. In addition to those regulations for the
s.ifety of the public, every thing should be done is
make the situation of the poorer classes comfortable.
He conceived, that any reformation which could he
brought about in public morals would be far mete
effectual for the prevention of crime than the increase
of the nightly watch. He thought, therefore, that
there were many topics overlooked by the Right He.
nourable Secretary, to which he ought to have dim.
ted his attention.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, he did not think it would be necessary kw bin
to trouble the House at any length ; but he wished is
make a few observations on what had fallen hie
the Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House.—
It was agreed on all hands, that in the present stab
of the metropolis it was necessary something shook
be done by way of Parliamentary provision. IL;
Right Honourable Friend had proposed a practiej
remedy to a practical evil ; and though some Gee.
tlemen might be of opinion that that remedy was*
sufficiently extensive, yet he hoped they would sot
therefore oppose what went a considerable way at
least to remedy the evil which was so justly con.
plained of. The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last had
shewn, that in a certain very extensive parish, where
riots and robberies had formerly been frequent, they
had been almost entirely put an end to by the me
now proposed, viz. a better and more effectual pro.
-vision and regulation of the nightly watch. His
Right Honourable Friend did not mean to say his
plan should not go farther than what was included
in the present motion ; but only that a Committee
should he appointed to take the subject into coasids.
ration ; and if they found on due examination, that
their powers ought to be enlarged, they would nits.
rally apply to the House for that purpose. He ft.
ticed the argument urged by the Honourable He*
her who spoke last as to driving the thieves and issh
derers from London into the neighbouring towns sad
villages; and observed, that the more perfect and is.
tensive the remedy was which should be applied
against such criminals in the metropolis, the ma
likely would it be, that the Hon. Gentleman's sunburn
of their retiring into its vicinities should be realized,.
That objection, therefore, could not apply to the pas
sent measure. The question before the House ittsd
ved the whole of the metropolis and the neighbour.
hood also ; and it was, he thought, very necessary..
a commencement of what, if deemed necessary, might
afterwards be extended at the pleasure of the Hotam.
His Hon. and Learned Friend (Sir Samuel Ronully)
had particularly adverted to the moral depravity ea.
gendered by persons being confined in certain pbes
with others who were hackneyed and hardened in the
ways of vice and wickedness ; but he could not sup•
pose his Honourable Friend would wish to have Pr.
nitentiary Houses provided by the present rams=
He had no doubt but such places of secluded as,
finement would be extremely useful, and highlyte.
neficial to,the best interests of society; but it certaio•
ly was not necessary, nor could it be expedient teak
graft them on the present motion, which requiredlOe
put into effect with as little delay, and with as
simplicity, as possible. His Learned Friend hauls
mentioned the propriety of putting an end tog;vig
rewards to Police Officers in cases of conviction off&
fenders taken by them. This wascertainly a matte
of great consequence ; but a question might perhap
arise, not whether the rewards alluded to should be
abolished, but whether they ought not t,-) he increased?
These might both be points well deserving efeonsids•
ration; but perhaps they might be more satisfactorily
disposed of in another way than by mixing them with
the present question. The Hon. Gentleman who spoke
last had particularly inveighed against the custom
which he said so extensively prevailed, of policed'.
cers mixing in company on the most familiar terms
with known thieves and depredators of every de •
tion." This might doubtless be wrong, but is wan..
tainly no novelty in the history of such characters; fit
it was a fact known to every one, that such had '
the constant practice ever since the time of;
Wild; and whe:her it was politic or impol:tic he
not presume to say, but he believed it had not

to cause a greater increase of crimes at the preseal
riod than befetofore. The Hon. Gentlem.in !
found fault with the police officers for not more
quently taking up certain descriptions of persons
suspicion—but what Itood could they effect by
doing ? What authority have they, except to
them before a Magistrate ? and then after a
time, unless some proof can be. brought agar
that Magistrate must discharge them. S'
most desperate and atrocious charactr
had, before the dreadful murder he after,
posed to have perpetrated, been taken
suspicious character, what could any Magi
dope farther than to confine him a rev
and if no evidence was then produce.
he must have been discharged ? The
ject which has created so much horror
atrocious climes should have been committed
individual : but, as the Hon. Gentlemar
admitted, (Mr. W. Smith), no police
watch could have prevented it, it was
power of Government to prevent it.
might unfortunately be lurking in any
.houses—lie hoped they were not: but,
ful and diabolical machinations they ma
and cherish, remain in their own min(
they keep them there without divuli
others, no police or nightly.watch can
feat them. The arguments made use of
Gentleman opposite might be available
an extension of the measure, but certai
operate against it, so far as it went.
therefore, the House would agree to the
and if, when it sat, it might be thought
powers might be enlarged.
Mr, ABERCROMBIE said, his
(Sir Samuel Romilly and Mr. William
not said a word against the. motion, but
did not go tar enough. The Right Hon.
who had just sat down, had stated ser

: such had hies
ime of Jonathaa
?olitic he wadi
lad not operated
: the present's'.
tlem.in had
✓ not more fnk,
s of persoce ea
y effect by •
except to take
after a cert.
it against &Sp
Suppose that
cter, WilliaMl,
etwards is sap
n up as such.'
Magistrate halt
:asonable time;
.d against hi*
e particular dbo
• was, that wit
mmitted by va
man had jam
Ike or nightlf
was not in the
Such vi lal
r of their oil
• as the drea.
may engendo
ids, so long M
Iging Mewl'
prevent Or OP
of by the Hai.
le in favour
tainly did Doe
t. He hoPedr
to Committee;
tt necessary,ils
Hon. Friend,
m Smith) Isai
st only that k
on. Gentles's.
:ver4 am.

which had been committed that the nightly *itch
could not prevent, but he had not explained how any
improvement in the nightly Watch Would operate as
a remedy. He had not shewn that the police had
not been defective. The great complaint in the mouth
of every one was in the inefficiency of the police ;
and it was the duty of the House to call on the police
to shew why, after the large sums allowed to make
that body an effective one, crimes had of late so
greatly increased ? It was the prevailing opinion of
great numbers ,that the many persons lately liberated
from the hulks had been one great source of this evil.
He had been willing to look with an eye of consider-
able distrust on such opinions ; but he had lately re-
ceived a great many representations from these re.
ceptacles for criminals, stating, that many persons
had lately been liberated, whose crimes were greater
than those left behind ; and from the great.number
of those representations, he could not but suppose
that there was some truth in them. There was ano-
ther crime, however—that of picking pockets—which
had anived at an alarming degree, and could not be
remedied by a nightly watch, became it was in ge-
neral committed in the day time. It might, how-
ever, be greatly lessened, if not entirely done away,
by an active and vigilant police. He should therefore
move as an amendment, that the Committee "should
enquire into the State of the I'oiice, as well as of the
Nightly Watch."
Lord COCHI ANE said, the RensienList was the
source of 0' evil, by increasing the distresses of the
lower ord.:c.S'of the people, and thereby driving them
to the commission if Climes.
Mr. Secretary RYDER replied to the o'eservations
of the last Speaker ; and added, that he had enquired
into the c::ses of these lately liberated from the hulks,
and received assurances that none of them had re-
tamed to their old habits ; but that a number of per-
sons who had returned from transportation had re- I
sumed their former occupations ; and to this the in_
crease of crimes was greatly to be attributed. His
Honourable and Learned Friend (Sir S. Romilly)
had said, that police-officers wete not inclined to de.'
tect criminals. He had made enquiry into this, and !
was n Id by a Magistrate, that he believed no such
case existed ; and that if any thing of the kind could
be pointed out, the cffieer IN (And be dismisses!.
Sr SAMUEL. ROMILLY said, that after the'
rewatels ameumed to upwards of :4.700 he believed !
the ezertiens cf the i olice.efficers had been very great ,
incited; so moth so, that lie was shocked to think
they had even taken iip the nearest relative of the un- !
fortunate Mr. Mare; and that he had beta confined
forty-eight hours on the dreadful charge of having
merdered his own brother. While rewards continued
in the o mmon way, he had b-en given to understand
the police-reieers were rerniss in tl'eir duty ; and their
exertions valid not be very n.•-e'toriou; ..rhea the
temptitti-ses it were sn very large. lie was glad,
however. to find th it the :intendment made by his
'Fioneurable Frien.l was likely to he agreed- te.
6ir Fll A Y.O I R le iT l obset ved, that from the
jealousy whiel, he could a ,t forbear to el,t,olain respect-
ing the meatilees of
.Govet nment, he had been afraid, :
that advantage would be taken of the present universal
alarm, to extend the police, and stiviy then the hands
of Government. Ile then proceeded to state, that the •
present was an eff...etual practical question ; and that
he had no doubt ,:hat it was poss+le to make the
system of nightly watching so comolOte as eltoge,ll. r
to preclude the necessity of aey police. It was mach
to be wisht.d that the good old law should be revived ; •
by which it was ordered that every parish should be
responslsle for its own particular safety, and should
select and appoint able and accountable efficers for'
its protection. He even thought that volunteers!
might be used with considerable effect to the sup-
pression of outrages and riots. He hoped that some
measures of this sort were in the contemplation el
his Majesty's G3vernment, and would be alltptd
towards s.ectirine: the tranquillity of the mettopelis.
On the subject of the amendment of the police, he
had intended himself to offer a motion ; and should
probably still present one, relating to the character
cat the Police Magistrates, many of whom he un-
derstood to he totally unfit for their situations.—
The 3.2 d of the King had directed, that the Police
Magistrates should be acting Magistrates in their
respective counties, and should possess a qualifi-
cation of £lOO per year in freehold property. In
order to ascertain whether the salutary regulations
of this law had been observed, he should move at
some future period, for a list of the names and qua-
lifications of the several Police Magistrates. In the
mean titre, he should content himself with observ-
ing, that the subject in question embraced a wide and
comprehensive range—and lie hoped that his Hon.
and Learned Friend, .Sir Samuel Romilly, than whom
tone was mere able, would move for an :nquiry into
the causes of these increased and enormous atrocities,
and for a revision of our criminal code—a code which,
while its importance was such as to involve the lives
cf millions—nay, of the whole people, was most se-
verely ar'. justly reprobated by our most learned
*ricers, and among othen, by Sir William Black-
stone himself, the great commentator on English
Law. The Honourable Baronet then adverted to a
passage in Mr. Secretary Ryder's speech, in which
that gentleman had observed, in relation to some re.
?navies of. Lord Cochrane, that he could see no con-
nection between the pension list and the crimes lately
committed in the metropolis. The Hon. Baronet,
bn the contrary, thoughtthere was a clone connection
between these sebjects, for dishonesty in public men
Was of a sure and powerful prevalence to undermine
and destroy the morals of the nation at large ; andhe
:';'oulti not hesitate to say, that the man who fed on
the public moness, without merit or service, was
wally dishonest seith those inferior wretches egairot
whom the censures of the law were exercise . Ile
toncleded by saying, that he should give his consent
to tile models as amended.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
ofd, that in accedinfs to the 'amendment, he begged
to disclaim all idea of imputing misconduct in the
case of the Police Magistracy, either as to their ap-
tointment in -the first instance, or with respect to
!heir condect on the piesent critical occasion. He
had not at first thought it necessary that the words of
the motion should be enlarged, because he conceived
at° be a matter of ceurse, that all necessary means
of establilin,g security would be enquired into by the
Commettee. An Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Aber-
crombie) had himself practised upon him the taceti-
tosness which he had imputed to him, when he sup-
Posed, that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)

leolced npOn any regulation of the police as a theo-
retical scheme. He entettained no such idea,;—'
but he had thought, that the present qUestion might
he encumbered with speculative clogs, if enquiries.
were ingrafted on it relative to the state of punish-
ments, and the Criminal Code ; or, what was not im-
possible, since the Members for Westminster were on
the Committee, if an investigation was instituted as
to'the expedience of a reform in Parliament. On the
whole, be thought that-a consideration of the means
of prevention of crime, in the power of the Police,
would form a very proper accession to the present
enquiry.

Mr.
M SHERIDAN observed, that after the unpre. 1
cedent;d alarm-and terror which had overspread the
metropolis for two months, the Secretary of State, '
who was the first Police Magistrate, had come down
to the House with a pretended remedy ; but which, I
he must say, appeared to him one of the silliest pro-
positions
that he ever recollected to have heard.— I
What ! when the most audacious burglaries—the ,
most atrocious massacres had been committed—the'
Right Honourable Secretary proposed as a remedy, I
an enquiry into the state of the nightly watch : he
might as well have instituted an enquiry into the state :
of the parish nurseries. The Right Honourable Se-
cretary had acknowledged that each perish was in-
vested
with a controuiing power over its own officers,
the appointment and removal of whom rested solely
with itself ; so that if any misconduct existed in any
district, it was alone referable to the want of proper
vigilance in the superintendence of that district ; and
yet by the mode of proceeding now recommemled,
the culprits themselves—the persons to whose remiss-
ness
the enormities were owing—would he callei
upon to advise measures proper for our future secu- I
rity. He really thought such a proposition unbe- I
coming the gravity of the Right Hon. Secretary ; a
gravity whic, he must confess, was maintained with
great decorum on all occasions. He then proceeded ,
to remark, that the Secretary of State, notwithstand-
ing the imperious duty of his situation, had not con-
sulted ss ith any Magistrate, nor had had one half.
hour's conversation with any Magis:ra'e of the City, I
or Westminster ; nor had, for the space of a year
and an hail, had any intercourse with the Gentle.;
man who was at the head of the Alien-office ; and
yet this Right Honourable Gentleman, so remiss,'
takes cre,l:t to himself for'his present measure, and'
for his teady accession to the proposed amendment.
lirith respect to that amenJmeat, he must obsei ye,
that it was such an enlargement of the original mo.
tion, as if a whole loaf were appended to a crust;
...._or as if, on a motion to inquire into the state
of pitch and tar, in a particular dock-yerd, an
amendment slteuld be added to institute an inquiry I
into the coudeion, power, and discipline of Iles 1
Majesty's Navy. The Right Honourable Gentle.
nem thee olisei veJ, that in the year of the 6'1,1780,
ne had himself moved an inquiry into the state ofthe
police of the metropolis ; and that the Duke of Nor.
t:iternherland, for whom helm olessed a high respect,
had answered his motion by a sort of repartee, by
threatening to put lint ( r, fr. S ) and some of his friends
into the v enntis-i;ei of the peace. He then stated,
that the office of magistrate was frequently given away
as a mere job; and defied Ministers to deny, that per-
sees had been placed and continued in office on such
grouatis alone. He professed an esteem for such me. i
gistretes as he had a personal acquaintance with,
particularly Mr. Graham ; and confessed, that the
Bow-street Officers were an honest and meritorious
class of men. Yet he thought, that on the part of
the Magistrates of Shadwell, there had been an un-
necessary, a wanton, and prodigal exercise of power:
sn that every nun who had a tern coat or a dirty
s!lit-t had been apprehended throughout the king-
' dom.—( A Laugh).—They bad conceived an idea
that a so: t of a Popish plot was formed, %%hid] was
intended to destroy all Protestant publicans. In pur.
suanceofthis, Williams wascalled an Irishman, though
he (Mr. S.) saw no reason to believe it: and he was
farther in!Ormed, that on this ground Anne, 7 liish-
t met hid been seized and confined without fiiod for 22
hours in one room ; though, indeed, the Magistrates
had, on better information, ordere; them s ime re-
freshment, and the next morning ribught proper to
apologise for their detention, and to discharge them.
I He then alluded to the exposure of the dead body of
I Williams. lie said he was aware that this was tender
ground, yet he was bound to ray, that no popular
panic, however great, could justify a departure from
Cie- sti ict rule of law. At any rate, such an exhibition
waereaching the mob to prey upon carcases, and to
take the execution of justice into their own hands ;
while, at the same time, it was calculated to cover the
scandalous neglect on the part of the Magistrates.
They had no sufficient conviction on which they
might found the mummery of that procession,—they ,
had no fresh evidence,—and yet, though possessed at
first of ail that testimony which had in their minds
justified the in'amous exposure of his person after the
suicide, they had not thought it necessary either to
place a guard over his person, or to search liis poc-
ket:, or even to examine the room where he resided :
and yet these are the men to whom a Right Hon.
Gentlemen disclaims imputing the least misconduct.
Mr. Sheridan then concluded by saying, be should
'vote for the amended motion. -
Mr. STEPHEN thought it necessary to defend the
Magistrates of Shadwell, placed as they had been in
a situation peculiarly arduous, and such as, in his
Imind, required candour and compassion, instead of
animadversion. The alarm throughout the metro-
polis had been such, that not a man retired securely
ito repose without barricading his own house. The
exelemetions against the conduct of Magistrates were
loud and general throughout the kingdom. In such
' a state of the public mind, what could the Magistrates
1 do ? Would they have been justified in disregarding
I any thing short of conviction ? If they bad done so,
1 would they have secured and contributed to drive out
of existeace that monster Williams ? for such, from
' the evidence, he had no hesitation in calling him.—
' Surely, it was harsh and cruel to object to this part
loi eThere was, indeed, one statement of
tti.etilrl
conduconduct.ct,
which:, if true,he thought utterly indefen-
sible. If, as had been represented, they had pandered
ito any iLiberal and Abominable prejudices which might
exist against that brave and generous people, the
Irish, they merited the fullest reprobation; but h. eho-_
' ped and trasted that the story alluded to-atnated
at there was some remissness in not
merely in the hurry and press of bsiness. Xr. Ste-
. phen allowed, tie
. placing a guard over Williams; but he was •con-
. 'Aimed that the most argent circumstances of suspi-

e;on did not appear tin after Ms death, on examina.l
tion of Mrs. Vermilloe. As to the exposure of the
body, he conceived it necessary to tranquillize the
minds of the people in that quarter. Nor could he
see any hardship in the case, that a man who had
been reasonably concluded to have perpetrated the
most diabolical acts, should be subject to the infit-
mons exhibition which the law requires in case's of
suicide. He thought, therefore, that great '
ance was due to the Magistrates under these cir-
cumstances. He then stated, that if the sense of
the House were not the other way, he should not ,
accede to the Amendment; as he conceived th.! mea-
sure of the nightly watch to be a sufficient remedy
for the particular evil which the Right Honourable
Secretary bad in ; and in corroboration, men-
tioned
the circumstance of his next-door neighbonc
having been robbed of plate to the amount of ,'SOO.
Inquiry had been made, then it. appeared, that on
the night of the burglaly, the street had been de-
serted of watchmen, from some silly regulation they
bad ameing themselves, cf being absent two nights in
the week (which they called dead nights) w4:,out
being reported ; and all the watchmen had, in the
foregoing instance, chosen the same night fcr aLs.fn-
ting elemselves. The Hon. Gentleman then con.
chided his speech by a panegyric-on Sit Samuel Re-
milly, with whom, though he agreed iii most points
on the subject of Criminal Law, and especially as to
the increa:e of crimes.

Mr. M. MONTAGUE then, at s'lme length, d•,-
fended the conduct of Mr. Secretary Ryd,r, and ani-
ma•dvcrted on Mr. Sheridan, saying, among other
thing;, that he could not form an idea of the motive
of that Right Hon. Gentleman's speech.
Mr. SHERI DAN.—,4 The Honourable Gentle-
man, who has just sat down, has repeated no lees than
six times, that he cannot form an idea of the motive
of my speech ; I will tell him—My motive is to do
my duty to the State : and that, it seems, is a motive
of which the Hon. Gentleman can form no idea.".

The question n•.ts Olen put and carried, and the
Members wen: named a Committee—
_

Mr. Ityd,-r
it C. I•rirr
sir James Shaw
Sir William Curtis
hir.Altlermait Cuinhe
Mr. Uyng
Mr. Mellish
Sir ! ranch Burdett
I.oril Cochrane
Sir Thomas urton
Mr. Fl. Thornton

Mr.'l i...rney
I.nrd Lowther
Air. Leyce.ter
Mr. Sheri.l.an
21r. Abercromby
Colond Wood
Mr. Sttirrci Bourne
Mt. Peek
Mr. Robinson
Mr. Frank
I.lt!journed.]

THE EVENI It:t; STA R.