Star.
London, England, 1804-02-14 00:00:00

Rate in which the bufinefs was then placed, had led,
to another application, and in purfuance of the ve-
t/net of feveral refpedable perfons engaged in the
cotton trade, he had been induced to bring forward
the meafure. No mien could undertake to deny
that the cafe was of very great importance, not only
to thofe concerned in that branch of bufinefs, but to
the community at large , and he felt that confidera-
ble advantage would arife to all front the manner in
which the qneßion was to be brought forward. For
his own part, he fhould not ex pref. a decided opinion,
and all be had to fay was, that if the Bill was found
capable of improvement it ought to be amended;
and if.not, that it thould be repealed. He concluded
with moving, that a Committee be appointed to con-
fider of the molt fpeedy and effeltual mode of adjult-
ing (itch differences as may be found to e tilt between
the makes and workmen employed in the couoo
manufaltories.
Mr. ROSE laid, it was not his intention to make
any kind of oßpolition to the motion. His objea in
riling was, to beg that no further delay might be
fuffered to take place in the bofinefi ' • but that fome
efficacious plan might be adopted, as fpeedily as poi-
fible. The late alt for adjußing there differences.
which the Right Hon. Gentleman alluded to, did,
at the time it was brought before Parliament, meet
the approbation of all the parties. It was equall
and
y
defired, and equally approved of, by mailers
journeymen. But it was afterwards rendered
ilnuer
-
gatory in an extraordinary kind of way, by the ma
manufsaurers. The Act gave them the power to
name perfons who were to decide the differences be-
tween them and their fervants, and alto to fix upon
the place where the parties were to meet. Accor-
dingly loose of them named panne as arbitrators,
who lived aoo miles off. A cafe of this kind was re-
ferred to him (Mr. Rote) and all the parties were
obliged to comeap to London from Lane a fhire, in order
to have the matter indifpute fettled. The confequence
was, that very heavy expeoces and loft of time were
incurred; and fervants complaining of markers mutt
have been deprived of all manner of redrefi, if they
were liable to be fubjefled to loch great inconveni-
ences. Thefe perfons then prefented a petition to
PatHament. A Committee fat upon it. A Bill was
brought in on the report of that Committee ; and
the Bill was objeaed to by the manufadurers. Va-
rious meetings were held; frefh °Nations came
from feveral quarters ; add the Bill was at UR
flopped. Thus every. thing was left in the fame
Rate of confufion and difficulty as from the beginning.
In confeqrsence, therefore, of every thing he Rated,
he wiled to imprefs on the Houfe the necemty of
adopting tome plan as fpeedily as poffible ; either to
enforce an AQ of Arbitration, or fay it ought not
to be carried into effeQ at all. The Cotton Manta-
fardurers objeaed to the interference of any perfon
except that of magiflrates. If fometbing was not
fpeedily done, the moft mifchievous confequences
might arife. The journeymen filk weavers, finding
their complaints had not been heard, and that they
could get no redrefs, took the law into their own
hands, and committed great excel:es. He thought
it neeeffary to obferve, that the law, which had been
evaded in England, was carried into effe& in
Scotland, where not a murmur prevailed againll it
Mr. Addington's motion was then carried, and the
ICommittee appointed.
BASIC or I IifITRICTIOII BILL.
Mr CORRY moved, that the Honfe do refolve
itfelf into a Committee of the whale Route, to take
into confidemtiott the Bill for reßriaing the Bank of
Ireland from making payments in fpecie.
Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON declared,
that he relloquilbed the refolution he had formed, of
propofing the claufe of which he had given notice to
the Committee. He felt it
the his duty tn affure the
Houfe, that he gave up prepofed meafure
merely from the effetts produced in his mind, by
the molt ferious inveftigation, and the molt mature
confideration ; he could not, however, help remark-
ing, that Ireland was it a very bad Rate, with re
fpeQ to its currency, and he thought that the re-
fladion itfelf was a lamentable national calamity.
The increafe of notes, iffued by the I}ask of Ire-
land, had been rapid and extraordinary, while the
circulating medium was either quite difappearing,
or had aQually difappeared. The difference of ex-
change, sot only between Dublin and other parts
of Ireland, but between Dublin and this country,
was alfo a fubjeit which excited the deepeit regret,
and earneftly called for the attention and interfe.
rence of the Hoeft. It was a matter of great afto•
nithotent, and mull affeft the relations of trade,
and the fpirit of enterprize very materially, that the
exchange between Dublin and Belfait, a dillance
while
of
one hundred mile. only, was at S per cent.
that between Dublin and London, which bad been
before at 8, as now no
very high as di and 59 per
cent. He norlid ark the Right Hon. Gentleman
oppofite to him, whether under the prefent circum.
;lances there were any grounds for ft ping, or any
profpea that the Bank of Ireland would be able to
reforne its parment.
Mr. CORRY thanked the Noble Lord for the
candour and ability which he had difplayed in the
obfervation+ that had fallen from him. He readily
admitted the Rate of circulation in Ireland to be a
confiderable grievance, and he fhould feel fincere
pleafure if means could be found to remedy the
prcifures ailing from it ; but it was no lefs true,
under every jolt confideratiom tbat the Bank of
Ireland was not refponlible for the grievance, nor
fir the reftrinion now propofed. Great quantities
of paper had been itined, and were in circulation,
throughout Ireland ; but they were not fubjed, as in
this country, to the controls' of the Bank. !lan),
flrong reaf.ns might be ur7cd in excufe, if not in
jullification, of the Bank of Ireland ; yet he did not
with to lead the npinicn of the Houfe upon that tub.
jet, or be refprinfible I.imrelf for it. One thing Was,
however, undeniable : it was impoffible, while the
Bank of England continued to be unrifled in its
payments, that the Bank of Ireland could pay. He
was not aware that the rellriftion was to extend, in
Ireland, to a longer period than in England ; but he
Ihould go fo far as to maintain that it mutt be
continued there while it lalled here. He did not
with to detain the Houk at any length ; and what
he had Paid had arifen from the refpea which he
entertained for the Noble Lord ; btu be could not
undertake to enter more at large into the fubjed,
which ought 10 be enquired into with the moll care-
ful attention and the moil authentic means of idly.
nudes. The Bask of England had doubled iu

sue of notes, while the Bank of Irelard i
had Wrested
its paper circulation in a proportion to its capital of
four to one. He Ihould not, at that moment, fay
whether the proportion was a proper one, for m
would depend upon the internal and peculiar uch
cir.
cumtlances of the country ; and impreffed with that,
as well as with other important confiderations, he
fhouM referee himfclf for the future difcuffion of
the queflion.
Lord HENRY PETTY thought it a very extraor-
dinary circumstance, that the Bank of Ireland fhould
' at prefent iffue five times as much paper as k did
in the year 1797. while it was evident that the Bank
lof Engitud iffued only one fifth more within the
fame period. The Right Hon. Gentleman had ob-
(erred. that he was not refponfible for the conduit
of the Bank, but Purely the Houfe was refponfible
for what the Bank of Ireland might do, and was
bound to exercife the ftrifteß vigilance in prevent.
ing what might eventually prove exceedingly inju.
rious to the laurels of the whole country. The
caufe of the circulation in Ireland, which had been
Col juftly reprefented as a serious grievance, might
forbe
traced to the depreciation of the Bank paper ;
he would venture to fay, tint it could not be found
in the balance of trade, fine the exports were afcer-
tained to exceed, in a great degree. the imports.—
The evil, in fait, involved the impoffibility of a
remedy, and its own increafe and multiplicationto
For while the merchants and traders continued
be accommodated by the Bank, they would go °mend
the evil would naturally increafe. It mould tot be
forgotten, that the dividends had been at 61, and
the bonus at s per cent. He expreffed his fincere
hopes, that Come efficient remedy would be fpeedily
I found and applied, whether the circulation could
I be narrowed, or Come other mode could be adopted.
Mr. FORSTER thought the prelim Bill was a
neeeffary consequence ache Bill here, which rellrift-
ed the Bank of England from making.payments. In
Inland, the circulaung medium was in a wretched'
Rate. There was not a fingle !haling to be ken
[ throughout many parts of the country, and of copper
there was very little except in the northern parts.—
The want of gold was alfo feverely felt in the linen
trade ; and the bleachers, who carried on their bufi-
nets entirely by fpecie felt it moll. They began at
a very confiderable lots, lance they were obliged to
purchafe guineas at a premium of zs. 4.d. In loch a
fituation. the Houle could not but feel the necefiity
of making every poffible enquiry into the fubjeft, and
of providing a speedy and adequate remedy. He
thought it was the incumbent duty of the Houfe to
invefiigate the caufes of the increafe of the rate of [
exchange in Ireland; and that if any were found to
cliff, that the Houle ought to apply all its wifdam to
[ remedy the evil. He fiucerely wished, that the Gam-
demen of that Bench (pointing to the Treafory
Bench) would take it up, as the invefiigation and
remedy of the evil would afford more real benefit to I
[ the trade of that country, than any utestfure they 11
'could poffihly adopt.
Mr. VANSITTART °Verve& that it was c 0..,
tainly the duty of thole conneßed with the Treasury,
to bellow every attention in their power to this im.l
portant fubjea, and it was their fincere wills to do
fo ; but he owned that he was far from being able
to judge, at prefent, of the proper remedy; and he
thought that none had, as yet, been propofed upon
the fubjeß. From all that had been Meted, it ap-
Ipcared to him not to be perfealy confifient to Rate
[ the great difproportion, an point of refiriftion, ins-
, pored upon the Bank of England, and that of Ire-
, land, as the caufe of the difpaeity in the exchange of
the two countries.
Mr. H. THORNTON Paid, that it appeared to
him to be a fubjel of the highell importance. and
[that at the fame time it !truck him in the fame light
as it had done every Gentleman who had fpoken ;
I only that he thought the remedy was more fimple
than it was apprehended by many. The great cir-
culation of notes, and the fcarcity of gold. were the
clinks of the increafe of exchange in Ireland. He
knew, that is the aorthern parts of that country, the
rate of as. 4d. was given for a guinea of gold, which
amounted to about to pet cent. The (late of Ire-
land differed very materially from that of England.
The Bank of England was a Corporation, which Ten-
dered an account to Parliament from time to time.
and had, in lea, the power of regulating the whole
paper currency of England, which was not the cafe
with the Bank of Ireland. This, he thought, ought
to be taken into Confederation. The whole fu ply
of capital was now concentred in the Bank of Eng-
land, and by restraining the quantity of paper circu-
lated, it maintained its price ; whereas in Ireland,
each country bank was induced, by its cufiomers, to
promote the doing of paper, without any difpofition
being thewn to retrain that extensive circulation.—
It thus followed, that the remedy was to limit the
principal banks in the circulation of papers. wherever
they appeared to Lave too great a monopoly, and
make all the paper exchangeable for that iffiled by
the principal bank : this would have the effea of
keeping the exchange in proper order. He would
even fay, that foch paper lhould be exchangeable
fur the paper due.' bj the Dank of England; for
much coauthor, and conliderable mercantile cala-
mity might arife, unlcfs fame agreement took place
amotig!i thole engaged in trade. He believed that
fnmet.ung might be done by Parliament in this re-
title& As to the Bill before the Houfe, perhaps it
might be prudent only to allow it to operate for a
Ikon time. He only threw out theft obfervations
generally. as he intended to go more at length into
the fii'ojeet, at a future Rage; but, at prefent, he
thought it fidlicient to fay, that the unfavourable
course of exchange in Ireland was produced by too
great a quantity of paper being in circulation.
Lord CASTLEREAGH laid, that it was neeef-
fary to tilt this circumftancc to the bottom, and to
difcufs it in its own merits. The non payment of
gold teemed to him to be • _ _
the unfavourable exchange.
firilliog the operation of the
od, as the Hon. Gentlem.
thought this important and
of 'Le molt ahtlrule to w
Houle could be tioned.
beyond the reach of pailiai
did not think that the
ranted to Cupp, fe that k
per cent. on gold, which a
hle exchange. He owned
land was in a very critical
to exit. In the Ninth ul

were entered into fnr gold, which was furnithed by I
the Bank of Ireland ; for the old habits of the
northern parts of that country were continued,
though the means of a ready fupply were cut off,
by the reftriaion on the bank of this couwas lion
The The price of a guinea, he apprehended.
raifed confiderably beyond its true value, while great
quantities of fpecie were locked up in the Bank, and
in the private hoards of individuals, apprehenfive
from the fintation of affairs and of the threatened
invation. This alfo gave encouragement to forgery.
To theta caufes he attributed the unfavourable ex-
change as much as to the great inereafe of paper.—.
Such a great commercial body s the Bank of Ire.
land. depended much upon its credit, and was con.
duffed by many refpellable Gentlemen in the fame
manner as the Bank of this Country, and therefore
he deprecated the throwing fo unjutt an imputation
upon them, as to fuppofe that they have increafed
their ifine of Notes fo much as to produce a deprecia.
tion of to per cent. on their paper. He doubted very
much if even foreign tranfaSions were materially af-
&fled by the fcarcity of gold. As to tranfwftions in
the North of Ireland, the fcarcity of gold was a cit..
comae= which was always taken into view at the
time of making a bargain, or fettling the price of a
commodity. The linen weaver will confider the kite
of the demand for his commodities both at home and
abroad, and will no doubt take fuch a medium into
his notice when fixing his price. He doubted whe-
ther it was in the pnwer of Parliament to apply any
remedy to the evil complained of,,but be had no rex-
fon to think that we need entertain any gloomy proC•
pea of induftry being dircouraged, or commerce be-
ing materially affefted by it. It was no new com-
plaint in the North of Ireland, for when he belonged
to the Government of that country. the inconveni-
ence of paying in gold occafionid a conftant charge
againft Parliament, and a bounty was alfo paid to
procure it. The current exchange from the North
of Ireland to London, was at pretent ro6. when that
of Dublin was 116, which circumttance could alone
be attributed to the fcarcity of guineas. occafioned by
the manner of tranfaaing buknefs in the Northern

parts.
Mr. FORSTER explained, and (aid, that the Li-
nen Drapers of Armagh. had on one occafino met
and petitioned the Bank to prevent the purchafe of
guineas, and they had the foated that it occafioned
them a lofs of to per cent..that what he had (aid
relative to thir bounty on gold. did not depend
folely upon his own knowledge, for the refoluttons
' he alluded to were unanimous and carried by about
too of the principal drapers in the North. It ap-
peared evident to him, that fuch a bounty being paid.
gold mutt injure both domeßse and foreign trent:
*Elkins. He thought, that from what had been Paid,
both of the public and private Banks of Ireland, the
'Houk were called on imp_e 'molly to enter upon a
fair, full, and ferious dila:Moo of the Mike at tome
future period I for he had no doubt that the *Wiens
of the Houfe would find remedies for the growing
evil, or at leaß that they would be enabled to fay,
that they had done their duty. and the people of that
country would be more fatisfied, when they under-
Rood that nothing further could be done.
Lord CASTLEREAGH and Mr. CORRY fere-
raft y explained. .
Mr. JOHNSTON obferved, that the difference in
the exchange betwixt Belfaß and Dublin, might be
as well attributed to the depreciation of paper, as to
the deficiency of gold. Bullioa might be conveyed
front this country to Belfalt and coined there, the
only charge being the ezpence of conveyance and a
lot.. of intereft. which altogether would only amount
to a lofs of one and a half per cent. He thought it,
however, important that they fhould all concur, if
there was really an evil elating, and endeavour to
produce an immediate remedy.
Lord CASTLEREAGH begged the Honoura.
I 1 ble Gentleman to advert, that the price of bullion
I was conlidcrably above its Ilandard value, fo that
that additional ezpence, together with the charge of
coining it in Ireland, mull be taken into his com-
putation.
Lord DUNLOE could not fay at what rate but.
lion could be conveyed from this country to Ireland;
but he recollated when it was once found necclfary
to convey Come from London to Dublin, that the con•
trait was made at the rate of 3 per nat. and he be•
tiered that another contrail was entered into at : per
cent. He congratulated the Houfe on this lubje3
having been brought forward at the prefent time.
and ail-0
on the moderation obferved throughout.
which he hoped would he attended with the happick
II confNuences. He trolled that the matter would not
' be allowed to rel, but that it lhould be examined by
a fele& Committee above (lairs ; and that fuch an
invelligation Should not only relate to the mere et-
change of Ireland, but comprehend alfo the (late cf
the fairer currency of that country; becaufe he unit-
ed with an Hon. Member in opinion, that no fuch
thing as a real coined Silver Wiling was to be found
from one end of Ireland to the other. The till
which had authorized private Bankers to iltoe what
were called Silver Notes, had been fufpended, to the
great inconvenience of individuals, many poor Pe"'
pie being obliged to purchafe more of an article 11140
they really required, merely owing to the deficiency
of fuch a circulation.
Mr. ALEXANDER (aid, he concurred with the
Noble Lord who had jolt fpoke. that great income-
nience was felt in Ireland on account of deficiency
in the falser coinage. The landlords in the North ot
Ireland mull, in general. be paid in gold, and
tore the the weaver mull neceffarily and naturally intik
for a like payment fur his commodities. This qutk
lion, therefore, involved in it confiderable difficaind
and hardthips felt by the inhabitants ot Ireland, stla
he believed the fan.e inconvenience would be cqualli
felt in this country, sa et e the landlords uniformly
itniverfall.y to inlid for payment of their rents in fr.
Nothing buck him ' forcibly as the ratit

wholly I;CP4efled with cie. Nothing (truck him more forcibly as Inc ..---
e. He difapproved of re. of the pleat orniffion of paper currency in Irelan,
It Bill to a very (bort peri. one mealure which had been adopted by the Ba x
man had propoled. He there ;he meant the cuilom they had of &fount° to
d delicate fribieEl. was one at one per cent. under the legal intered. This c
which the attention of tl,e tom, he thottght, enabled and encouraged the pi" rat
It was, perhaps, an evil banks to ilf..e notes to greater advantage; and
tmentary interference. He long as the Bank of Ireland Ibould continue fo
Pei
ion. Gentleman was war- dilcount, it would be found very difficult to curc
asi .
was a depreciation of ten evil complained of.
occafioned the trufavoura The Houfe then went into a Committee, and ha
I that the fituation of Ire- Report WAS ordered to be received to morrow. • tie
d nate, for any circulation The Portnizal Indemnity Bill was read a
of Ireland, A tranfaitions time, and pall-ed.—Adjourned.