Star.
London, England, 1830-02-19 00:00:00

of catching a few stray votes—thanking bun for having openly de.
dared his plan of re form—he would state with equal fairness and
sincerity, that is was his intention to take the sense of the house on
the motion for bringing in the bill,
Viscount HOWICK observed that, from the manner in which the
benches of that house were filled, it was impossible to expect any
Fnoobject fer the benefit of the people. The hon. bart. below him
iartik Burdett) was rot able, with all his great talents, his well.
wn perseverance, and his tried integrity, to prevent the pass-
ing of any one of those measures whirl had brought the eoun.
try to its present state. dlr. Pitt, who commenced his career as
a reformer, soon deserted the interests of the people. His gnat
energies were first displayed in the strenuous support of those
interests, but he soon found that a losing game. He saw that the
voice of the people in that house was weak and powerless, and that
the voice of another class, which had been raised to influence, was
all powerful there ; and to that class be attached himself. They now
beheld before them a large portion of that party on whom hir. Pitt
relied, loudly clamouring for what was little less than national
bankruptcy. Such was the state of the house, that it might be
justly asserted that the people of England were not represented in
parliament. The consequence was, that i system of profligacy and
extravagance was pursued which had brought the nation to the
verge of ruin, and those who caused it were now afraid to
meet and encounter the distress. They now came down, and
to relieve themselves they called for the sacrifice of the national
faith; they were anxious to defraud the national creditor of what
was due to him under the moat solemn pledges.—(Hear.) He knew
that this was not a very popular feeling on the subject, but he could
not avoid stating his opinion boldly. To him it appeared that no.
thing could essentially serve the country but a perfect and complete
reform of that house.

Mr. O'CONNELL said, the principle on which the proposed
bill proceeded was that of popular representation, and the effectual
exclusion from parliament of placemen and pensioners. The adopt.
tion of that principle would be truly beneficial to the people, and
be wished to see it carried into effect. He would have the mem.
bers of that house completely free from every taint of influence.—
They should neither have wages from the people, ear salaries from
the crown—(Hear, hear). Those who spoke so confidently of the
purity of the House of Commons could not, however, deny that
78 of the members received of the public money, not less than
180,000/. a.year. Doubtless they were all honourable men, 011
conscientious men. One of them, it appeared, had recently given a
vote according to the dictates of his conscience, and what was the
consequence?_ Why, he was immediately dismissed from his situa-
don of groom of the bedchamber—(Hear.) The King himself, it
was said, with his own royal hand, struck his name out of the list
of his household—(Hear.) Had there, he asked, been no new
writ moved for, on account of the member who had been raised to
the vacant situation? Ile supposed that that individual was as con-
scientious amen as any ; bullet him beware how he obeys the dictates
of his conscience, or there might chance to be a second and even
a third removaL Assuredly the house could never be pure while
any man in it was liable to be thus controlled. He (Mr. O'Connell)
being elected by the people, denounced, on the part of the people,
all those who received the public money for betraying those who
sent them to parliament. He called on the house, in the name of
the country, to accede to the proposed measure. )ne great reason
which induced him to support the bill was, because he was of opi-
nion that none but real representatives of the people should sit in
that house : and that object the bill was calculated to effect. The
lion. member for Wootton Bassett had defended the existing arr.
tem ; but did he deny the fact, that there was a great body of ficti-
tious representatives within those walls ? 243 members of that
house were returned by peers, and 150 by commoners. In short, if
they went through the whole list of members, they would find
that a great majority were returned, not by the people, but by
corrupt influence. Was that the British constitution ? No : it was
the very reverse of it. The principles of the constitution went even
beyond the provisions of this bill. For his own part, he thought
that all who paid taxes should have a right to vote. He, as a radi-
cal reformer, would say that every man who paid a tax, directly or
indirectly, should have a vote, ioorder that so far he might have an
opportunity of regulating the taxes which affected him; and of pre-
serving his property. It was not property that should be represent.
ed, but man that should be represented. It was said that the present
system worked well. How had it worked well ? It had created
000,000,0001. of debt, which was now pressing on you, while the peo-
ple were crying out, on account of the prevailing distress, from one
end of the country to the other. And what was the answer to their
cries ? A lively speech, ornamented with a few stale jokes, from the
right hon. secretary, and something of the same kind from the bon.
member for Wootten Bassett. Oh, this was mockery, and the tale
will tell badly when it is narrated to a starving population. When
he saw gentlemen of high talent and great private worth assisting
the minister in all his views, it convinced him more than as thing
else of the necessity of reform ; because it was clear that such men
who would be pure if they could, were borne away by their associa:
don with a tyrannical oligarchy. When be saw that, he was more
than ever satisfied that there ought to be a radical reform. He spoke
for the people, and on behalf of them. He was anxious to see them
by the principles of a refined and limited monarchy, and
saved from the piercing fangs of a tyranntal oligarchy.

Mr. BROUGHAM said, the right hon. gentleman opposite
seemed to bare taken a very erroneous view of the motives which
induced gentlemen to support the proposition of the noble lord, al.
though they differed from him on some of the details of his Bill.
Could it be supposed that his noble friend, the member for Ayles-
bury, or his hon. friend the member for Cornwall, would support
the measure, in the first instance, merely for the purpose of strang-
ling it hereafter ?—(heer.)Nothing, surely, could be more ridiculous
Cr senseless than such conduct. The fact was, he understood, that
his hon. friends,though they did not approve of every part of the
measure, yet gave their entire approbation to some parts of it ; and,
on that Principle, if it were pushed to a division he foe one would
give his vote in Its favour. Some of the provisions of the bill—that
for instance, which assigned wages to members of parliament, did
not meet his wishes; but when he looked to other parts of it, he
should be deviating from the consistency of conduct he had ever
maintained on this subject, if he did nut give the noble lord an
opportunity of carrying those portions of his measure into effect.
He thought the proposition for admitting all copyholders to vote,
the provision for the diminution of expellees at elections, by
lowing votes to be taken in the neighbonrhood of the elector,—
the clause for allowing Scotch cities, boroughs, and counties, to
enjoy the franchise as it was exercised in England, which was in
itself a most valuable alteration (for Scotland was admitted, on all
bands, to be without a shadow of represention,)—he thought that
Ausee points were well worthy the serious consideration of that
Renee. (Hear, hear.) One of the worst parts of the system was
asassaal with places where the electors were not very few, but
wises ites.residenm were allowed to vote. If that class of voters
ware cut off; it would be greatly in favour of English reform; for
k was these out-voters who created all the confusion, discord, and
bdbmy, which generally prevailed. (Hear, hear.) In his opt-
oleo, however, it would have been better if the noble lord had agreed
be the suggestion that had been thrown out, but which be bad re.
sired with contempt and Indignation. He meant the t fon to
a general resolution k favour of reform, of intro.
race specific plan. He tit was set issesdasat with the
noble otd's plan, and was Isle to the assets Oche great
gyration of parliamentary ream. e, dashes, wield ressenmend
the noble lord to substitute for his modes as asealassi to this cf.',
feet.—. 64 That this house is of video that& mans in the represen-
mike of the people is expedient:* (Tim Marquis el Illand
s' Isis willing to do so.")—the stele Sod odght agree to this general
sot sistion. with respect to reform, without Incurring the censure of
basks token this apareedx thel= et as:bin a few stn whoa.
He had beard, and with indio his hemperable and is
:
Mad the member ter oases Bassett, presume to charge
ths noble lad who boa supposed the cause of Parliamentary
"Ann so ably, (and who, bi believed, was a sincere convert),
with having made a ludiesews honk& WWI t and hAr at the
same thus, amused his bessumble Mood, the member
star, with baying mein is nolo* duress Make.
sad learned Mood would lgovistamerard, 'Numb ts:
last as the noble lord bad that sigh; asthma is geed
of his country, or, whoa edsee ght them entrad, it be would
support them with OM half the ability and domeity of his Waking
the member for Wesuninstm, be would had, wia plasma, bin as-
quisition to the patriot list et thee hems (Hear).
Mr. H. TWISS said, M bad not the remotest Mae et
to the noble marquis any ash feeling as the hos. sad lesdipm.
tleman adverted to.
Mr. STANLEY esoM sit support a MB now, which he Mew
he must oppose bertsAw.
Mr. MABERLY, though a reformer, could not oppose the
motion.
Lord ALTHORP would vets for the motion of his noble reladso,
if k were pressed to a divkks but he thought the best course
would be to adopt the a'. 'ant.
The Marquis of BLANDFORD Melly replied. He stated that
he did est coodder it Decoreeoy to detain the boom but a toes taw
miasma, for that positively nothing bad been advanced bee the
masks ;Me which seemed to
_make 3,l*y. He toast bow.
ever, modes two points ea width the Ms. estestary
site hod communicated with a sneer, bad arse Nis
a les# at his expense. The Bret related to a west in the this
elibehM be bad plepesed. The weed it regulating," had bas
eased at as aboard as wiled to aimmisi. It soma the right
ben.. /atlases wee wheW *mast ass lit Me year 1•74 a
bid has read a woad thee, and assemild, is that lase, biro
lag the way same title the mettle lad bad fee tlis pasta
bill. _He was clearly bolus out by pasha. doodah he Wilde
of that MI was " a bill kr regalotha cassis k depdas et
meabai to serve is Parllameot. The mbar paha a wlthirthe
right bee. sesstary swayed to create a laugh, sad as ushisseable
iagesseisa at the arum of the noble lad, was as ass sides a
the othenthe of the were of aseadasse. The aside '
.agil
111 said
the dgil bus.eseselay bin hr 1•11100. a