Star.
London, England, 1801-03-11 00:00:00

*C

blifidto: the illegality of the order, ,
urged argiiments.u.amif it, enforcing 6,
ventem ce hit might he rt.teit • itt
this, however, he had been ia
during the conrfe of what had f"l,.
Honourable Getilletll.ln he heat.: la) fu :alt :nt
argument againti the motion. It was in ancient
and well-kmorn mat.iin of law, that ex:fiat's
just, that it was necetlin y in al: cafes to enablith
the faect before the law could, with propriet). be
applied. This was the general :inkl
blithed courfe of pi occ-eding, and this was the
principle on winch the motion was found,..d. 'll,l
Houk were either to obtain the knowledge of the
fat in the prefect cafe, or witheut li iving obtaineei
the neeeffiry knowledge, they were to go into a
Committee on the abfiran quellica. If they pre.
vioufly obtained the knowledge, they would then
be in a capacity of applying the law, tiller they
had, in a Committee of Precedents, determined
the abaraa quelion. On the other hand, if the..-
&ft proceeded to the conliderati.tn of the abfira
quellion, whatever determination they might corn-
to, they would b': unable, from their ignorance of
the fad, t, make any applications of the law. The
quejlion now before the I lonfe then was in reality,
whether they were to examine cerain perfons re-
:l:idling this Ilia, wh,.m by a previous order they
had called to the bar this day, ite.i who now at-
tend:.d in cotifequence of that command ? or whe-
ther they were now to tell them, th..t. Cie former
order was illegal, and that as the Houle had on a
previous night agreed to a motion altogether un-
contlitutional and unparliamentary in its nature,
they were now unJer the necedity of ditniitling
them, without having exasted o: them .tay of
that information for which their attendance was
required ? Such appeared to him to he the real
hate of the quellion before the Houle. In advert.
ing to the general gm:lion on which the Houle
might be called upon to decide, lie :rafted that
however violent political differences might be ou
general lubjeas ; however this violence might
fometimes unfortunately rife to a degree Mem:lift-
ent with fair and impartial decilion, he was con-
vinced that, when the rights of perfuns were con-
cerned, every feeling of party, every fuggettion of
prejudice, would be banifhed from the mind.—
Whether the Clergy have, by the principles of the
Conflitution, a right to a feat in the Houle, or
Whether the public would be benefited or injured
by this exclulion, were weighty and important qua.-
tions, in the determination of which he was per-
fuaded that no perfonal or private feelings would
enter, but that the decilion of the Houle would
be regulated wholly by the principles of public
duty. For his own part.he could allure the Hon.
Gentleman more immediately concerned, that its
fbould apply his mind to the confideration of the
fubjea with no deuire but that of arriving at
truth ; no with but that of coming to a proper
conclufion on a great conflitutional quedion. He
concluded by .expreffing his trial that the Houle
would adhere to their former order.

n•

. Mr. RYDER rote chiefly with the Torpor: of
. fpeaking to order on the fuhicd. He Ihnrtly
deavnured to thew that, in a great variety of cafes,
almolt wholly parallel, the Houle hati,Cren ia the
• ordinary habit of reforting to written &came:its
• in order to ascertain particular fans previous to
- entering on the difeuffion of fubjeds of importance.
—He mewed that this was done in oaks Tree:l.4;ly
limilar to the prefent, or to others in which parole
evidence was neeelrary, and hence argued that
the motion was made perft:Clly fair and cootiflent.
• He conceived that on This principle it wlis,alnind
to enter on the confideration of tile general quer-
tion, without previotaly a feertaining'the faa, and
contended, that all objections againtl this mode
of procedure were quite futile till a real i 4
eoald be pointed out betwixt the erred of written
and par,'Oe evidence.
Mr. Fox role to explain. He !aid the pJints
urged by the Right I rralonrable Gentleman who
'lad jutl fat down, had no direct analogy to the
:ale before the 'lone. If papers were called ba,
:he extent and merit of the evidence could be tole-
rably afeertaime before they were grantd—if iC
ihould be raid that_ a bankrupt could not lc a:iy
lit in that Houle, would any examination of evi-
dence at the Bar be tolerated to prove that the
perfon objected to was a Bankrupt ? The Houle
was not fully aware of the di:agreeable canl-
.piences likely to wife from the adoption of the
mcafures propofed by the Noble Loro. He was
fatisficd that no Gcnticm in that fopported them
could produce any precedent for filch a mode of
proceeding.—Mr. RyDF.Ft explained.
The ATTORNEY-GEN E RA L declared him rl.lf little
qualified, as a young Member cf that Honfe, to
local: upon any point which involved the conk-
&ration of its order of proceeding, but upon a
quedion of Law, he might perhaps be Inmenh. t
competent to date an opinion. He conceived it to
be an acknowledged rule or. Law to eftablilh lame
belae any time was wafted in the difeudion
of an abated queflion, in the dccifion of which
that fad might be involved. The Noble Lord
had, he conceived, fairly brought the merits of tl e
queflion he wifhesi to try before the Houfe, which
was undoubtedly the only tribunal competent to
decide it—before no other could it have been
brought—and the quellion if heard at 311, mull:
he heard there. Evidence had been moved for
by the Noble Lord in a manly and proper marner,
for the purpofe of proving the fails alledged, and
though the Honourable Gentleman who was the
object of the difcuUion, had offered to admit thole
fads, it had been very justly Rated from the Chair,
that fuch an admillion could not be received .is
evidence. The Houfe had ordered certain perfors
moved for by the Noble Lord to attend on this
day, and thole Gentlemen were now attending in
purfuance of that order, for the purpofc of hein;
called to the Bar of the Houle, to give that evi-
dence for which they had been fummoned. Why
Ihould not there Gentlemen be called in ? Why
entertain a dircullfion of an al:Arad yucftion, which
it was not yet known would be rendered neceffary
It was meeting a cafe st about any falls whereon
to found it, and would only tend to (loftily and
amide the Houk, without elucidating any ufefut
point. Let the (ample fa& of the cafe be after-
Laced, and then the quellion .which arc& out of