Star.
London, England, 1815-04-20 00:00:00

camp stages he should diem It his duty to tiqipose
;„:,? ,Ftrow possilk. impediments in its way.
Aloertnan C. SNIFF' t contended, that the Pr.,-
,ty e: as a very good tax, if properly levieJ.-
-c„r;, .iair.ts had been made about its pressure upon
s who lived or. the interest of their funded prz•
; but it -was known that there were persons
1,3,1 L.c.:AX),OOO or ,C 1,00.000 in the Stocks, wilt.
,t.,1 •ot iive at a greater rate than £lOO a.year. He
vi tha: nine pei soils out of ten without
.1,(...ru:d approve of that T4X, if properly
, /fear, helr.) It might be, that there
!: u,aiiy oljections to it, but there were alwir,
w.,uld object to any tax.
GRANT, Jun. thought it was
a a grest change had taken place in the
respecting this tax. He had heard a
tt-al of protesting this night ou the subjece,
would alio enter his protest. which would he
onverting the ways of meeting the public
into the medium of attack upon the noble
\Vic it deceat to anticipate the day rf his trial,
.t wa• :-.•11.0, and go on to his condemnation
n,ifir ;,t least have delayed their invectives till
f,,
.A, ti Al. He would appeal to every men
• L. .!1 emergency did not exist. which required
,;; i;.endtture, and that as far as possible
t,;3 s!„.010, to ,net by the suppliei of the year ? In
• t iil ;;•,,t had been said against the tax. he
„, ,:t t'..it it had been the most productive
.1 s. • jectionabk of any that had ever been

"1.11

.1. •
?tr. EV took the opportunity of entering
rt,,trct ptopriety of the Tax, without
!ut;:t r:spect to the necessity. It
s::1, Co: ti!lit t (1-eernment it the country was not
2t ec,ice• 11r tfi‘approved of abiding by the decision
0! ‘l.Lici; might mit to be allowei to eke
t he property tit Olt. people of LThgland. If it was
(1. t tike thtt ficht, lie Was of opinion the
c.; ...c.gland would not carry the contest na
,T, two or three years. To the insufli
of was the Country indebted for the
in which she is placed, and to the Nohlst
L .I,i in part'uttl.ir, who had no influence over the
Was lie the proper person to ask of Par-
itr...ii, in the present instance, 4 blind contiJence.
hr.,r i.—To gene.... the Tax v: as a most bare.
tier„ The Kitiht Helium ahle Gentle.,
it.ngth, objected to the Tar.
:r..0..1-..!'.VAT 1' contended that the tax would
f severity on the crmmet el tl members
s' n•..ry. lie strongly deprecated the conduct
tii7s,u.s, who had nothing else to do than to
pry into ev :ry man's affairs to find wiiere they could
nia'sc si:rcharges. Hoping, however, that some mo-
i!ii.cat-nt,s n ould be adopted, he should support the
; but he also hoped that the public would not
1:.:11 ebe left without some mode of appeal. He
that Mini..lers would use every ctideavortr to
p:..,..15e peace tliut was consistent with t!:e hourtir
ittey of the c-untry, other wise they se. old t;.k.t
p n themwives a most :mull tesponsi'Olity. Put
r., q .1.0t.cid....1, !et
e that the couctry otte,ht to !re put iit the lit 1,4
site of defenc:; an] on this ground he
s';iould vlre for the Comntiaee.

Ili

IV. SMITH said, he folly tigret d with that
majority of constitit-tivi, ho lat.? instructed
to vu. re .1.4-,antst th'4 t ix in whatever shape its ri.!•
tewal might be proosed. Under whatever m
lions th.it were hkely to he inipobeti, the PrrpettF
Tat would b • hi ohjeci unable. Yet he was fi,mly
if that alterations might be adopted .t
rendtr it :he most just and ploti:ab!e of any
tli.,t ever wt.r.r sti,-;g::sted. A mode ought to be th-
ri,e.l r:f levying it tree from those inquisitions under
i•ich the pto.)lic had so long laboured. But he had
-er Le ad that there existed in ihe minds of the
C melt who had proposed the Tax, the smallest
of ad:pting such modifications; bec .use they
s y, (hit they would tnilitate against its productive-
:. .-s. The resent mode of collecting it, however,
v ..s n I • rty intptisit• rial but unconstitutional. All
opt!? y Night not to he equally pres3eti
t...• :1 .1' w 11c1W •I:f• Case.. which was called a
I', I'4x, aQ, in 1 act, no Property Tax, because
it t ; gnat weight uprm a property which was
Inlet: years purchiSe as upon one which
st.i, -t ih t p-:trs. The name, but not the nature
O t!.e tax it.ai b: ea changed since its origin, and
to. ,t ta., mocroie.! it could not possibly become
• j—t or s ,tis ry.
M. :tt.l.-rinan /I i ICANTS declared, that it would
not :as p.,t.er to his support to
.the 1 4x.
i v x ASTIT materially diminished.
Mr. IL\ V EY ,'..onght, that if it was necessary
to hi ti,g at d t'ai; tax again, tie ilowe, in its wis-
dom, s'..wald so mot.; it, as to render it quite dine-
r, :I; it ni kit it t I:recent. I3y due :donations
, I i•s becoming the most agreeable
• henefi..ial nieAsitt.t of taxation (hit tver had Leeu
It :int to be tolerated that petiplt
Suit: 1 r, e estates 11... t wefe to descend to their heirs
,!it•tial pay IP) !Mae Aran those whose income was tie-
.iv ::,,in tH.ir talents An.. industry. 1 be prohts of
tr-d, anti aitailitics ought not to be taxed in the man-
-11,1 beta.
Mr. WESTERN ve4s decidedly Against the tax.
'tone length upon its oppressive ope-
ra lest mai:beim ii.g cnty.t.s. Ile hoped U.at
Ise tinlintanii:d, .1 pos,iltie.
PI(;i:.ENSON rot a opinion.
to the 't ar.hAtips neder wl.ich the farmers
lu L.e.g lalinered, And ie,;rettud that the Chan-
• tae Exeni.tpk.T had not intinvited lik intefl
504th' nil)difie lie ‘‘ .13 !it nay
(: l'!‘'! r. 01 it ::11 its of property in this (.A111,1;
tut sent in area a state, that nn m..n could
!lir VAlLetotary kind iii,tt he posses-ed.
et,. ROSE w..s coniuiced that It was impt,sale
'i:c mind of man to invent it tax so peitlctly
e.x(qtelnable. Ditring the pericid that it h ill been
it WAS a w4:11-known fact that the value of
I.:Al-al property had d uthlt d. Every man who had
en examined on the C..tra Question had confirmed
in portant tact. He wa . convinced that through-,
1,1.• INe tountry nine L. is-ns oat it ten 11:1'n
found to pay more thr • aryl the tax. s sst,itlt his
I, Fliinti td laßly titan they
to pay fru tic Pr petty Tax, v. ..\'
-• • •:t. to I.c %tills:noted I t them. 1') it from this escel-
- t. Ix, he had no hesitatier la saying, that the pro-
f y of the country would lour* sittce have been an-
t; latt'd. In 1793, the 3 per Cents. were at *I:,
-lace that period they had nut only imgressivety

. .
risen, but we had been able to borrow six hundred
millions! Thus, without the Property Tax, tht
country never would have been in its present flouris:
ing situation, and he was decidedly of opinion, that
five times more might be raised by it than by any
,thi.r mea•uro.

Mr. BARCLAY thonght that lionarrte had
only been replaced on the throne by asc ldicry eager
for bloodshed anA rapine, and who bad placed bin•
there hec lose thy esracted nothing butt peace from'
the li•uurbons. This state of things required the m..s,
vig..rous prep 'rations, whether for w:..r or peace ; an.)
seriti',7, no other in:3ns tor supporting such prepara-
tions, he should give his hearty support to the ine,tl
sure. lie. was glad to learn that the Ch incellor of
the Es•-hequer meant to propose some modification,
of the •l'an, and he should be happy to contribute to
ward.; such an olfi•ct, as he was convinced that this
Tax had b•c nate so very obnoxious chiefly on ac.
count to ti: • mode of its collection.
_ _

.11

L. BRAND deptec4ted any discussion on the
merits ot the Property Tat as premature, as nothing
had yet occurred which could lead the House to
conclude that its readop:ion was necessary. He was
ready to admit that great preparations ware proper
at the present time ; but he wanted information be-
fore he would pleAge himself that his cons6Luents
should undergo the oppression of this tax. It tl,c
sums which it was to produce were necessary, he
would rather meet the views of Ministers by a vote
of credit, than by resuming so odious a measure,
which had not been proved to be necessary. Before
it should be adopted, its necessity ought to be proved
to the House and the country ; and if it were Una-
voidable, he did not know any better tax, provided it
undtrwcat certain moditicttions. That its necessity
might be fully ascertained, he should move as an
Amendment, that any debate upon it be deferred till
this day fortikht.
Mr. FOLEY seconded the Amendment, after a
f-w-hriet o!),ervations, to the effect that the country
did not 110 W possess the-same ability to pay the tax,
that it had tot some years past.
Mr. TIERNEY said, lie should not consent to the
Speaker's leaving the Chair, unless same information
were given ot a decisive nature.
Mr. Vs' I lITB R EA.I) objected to the renewal of dr
Tax now. whi..ii it thus imposed in a time of peace,
w:alld be saddltd on the country for ever.—(tVo,
fi OM Me Minist,srial side if the Houre.)—So it appeared
to him ; for it the itii;ht Hon. Gentlem was not
now able to meet the wants of the country without
it, f,ow would he be able to meet it on future occa-
siois ? Y.e was in favour of the Amendment.

L ird Cikei I'LrIitEAGH denied that the adep-
tion of the Propel ty Tax now would entail tie Tax
on the country ; the contrary, if the Ctiai.celh r of
the Exchequer loot been allowed to go to his state•
meat, the lionoureble Gentleman voinld Levi! found
that the propositiiin we. only ter contienino ti-e Tax
for one year. It the House shoeld feel .t confidence
in his Mejesty's Government, and concur with them
in tile opiiiion of the peace establishment it
was necessary to keep up tinder existing circeni
t° put this country in safety, they woold aerie! with
Ors Right Hee. Friend's :notion. If, on the coivor ,
they shiblil agree with the Honottreble Gentl !now,
and place the same confidence in the veyot at tee
head of the French Government which the i 't-
ole Ginitlemm had alweys done ; but which, f eta.
n itchy k the country they lied not, note i•iistondino
the arguments and prophecies of the If
Gentletuao, yet done ; then they would rcfese to
place confidence in the Executive Gov.rnment. I‘.
however, the Home sliuiOd piece confidence in the
Executive Goveromeet, he would venture to pro-
phecy, notwithstendeig the predictions of the lion.
Gentleman,- that the country would ag.tin be pi iced
in the eminent situation of being the preserver of the
liberties of Europe.—(Near, hear.)
Mr. WIIITIMEAD and Lord CAsrLEitEAaII mutually
explained.
Mr. PONSONBY said, he was one of those who
thought that it the House should vote the Property
Tax without its being shewn that war was unavoid-
able, that tax would become perpetual, for every
future Chancellor of the Exchequer would do' all in
his power to make it so. As to modifications, it
would be impossible to make any consistent with the
efficiency rf the tax. Another objection was, the Ll•
clity it afforded to Ministers, to enter upon war and
other expensive measures to which it was all absolute
provecation. He asked if the Chancellor of the Lx-
chequer would say that he :night not advert to a loan
as well as the Property Tax, and if he could .ut say
no, why not take part of that loan now, and thus
supply the present ex;gency ? Noble Lord c-no
plained of some things 'het had been said this eight,
he also complained, that it was impossible to tell
when the Noble Lord would thioleit a proper day to
1.4 y before the House all papers r.lative to the proceed.
ings of the Congress, though they were daily makieg
their appearance through ether channels. The Noble
Lord's letter to Prince Htrdenberg was true ; he also
thought his letter to Prince Talleyrand was true, and
that the letter of the Plenipottoitiariee of the King of
Naples was true. He was induced to think so because
none of them had been denied ; and from the whole of
these he theogf it from his eoul and conscience that the
Noble Lind and the Congress had been the means of
now placieg beinaparteon the Throne. The letter oldie
i t nice Tiiikyrillld was a j production, as it
re 'lied to Naples. Nothing was mite natural than for
Murat to look to what appeared his best security.—
Had the aoteement v ith him been executed, he could I
have had no pteteoce nor temptation to act as he is'
stated to have done. Indeed, it was generally tinder-
soiod, that lie leol n e piedeliction for Bonaparte, who
wished to aced Naoles to his kingdom of Italy.. If
the Noble Lord could chew him (Mr. Pons mby)tiit
he was wtoog, he should be happy, both for the ho.
neor of this country and for the interests of Europe.
ha' giVO,l his teesons already against the property
tax, w;iico i.evet could look at in a favourable
Lola' MIL I'ON could not vote for this measure,
without (*father explanation. Though lie could not
give his faith on the declarations of Bonaparte, he
I oohed to see nein: cite, ly the state of the question
as to pe.tcc or war. He should, therefore, vote for
ti,_ oniendinent of the ;clamber for Hertfordshire.
•I'oe teetewal of the 'octane Tax was, in itself, a
step to viar ; mot m that cese the die was cast. This
proposition ives to be conoled with the was like speech
of the Noble Lord, who seemed to have the ruling
opinion tio this subject. He did not think that we
ought to take this step at presents The Tax would

. . •
* sigried t he more cheer ty by the pirblk, if it ap-
'eared u the necessary result of a war, than if •
.•emed a means lot entering upon war. No!
•ould be 'more willing than himself to give eve,
opport to Government in a war, upin a prper 4.c
• tsion, provided Ministers could show th:it war w
•tevitable. It was nut the ;nt...llect or the prese.•
'cuter of France that :Lied : it was the f,Tri'
ot his Gavernment. Ut, courie must be sh.iped
:onsiderable degr to the views of tl.e
..".ontiocutal St.t.4ii At rrevot he moist he excused
from voting this ultimate step. i-le stt.ao.4 thtlefore
vote for postponement, with the deAre of furthet
iu-
tornlatinn.

Lord LASCELLES thryiqht this county i slur+•l.!
not shew any backwardness, a war should be neces,
s4ry. He should be sorry if. tr this couotry should
ippear to be at all influenced by.the insidious letter=
and decl trations of the present French Government.
He mirt hesitate with respect to the question of a
; taut he felt that the withholding of the present
equest would be injurious to the public interests or
Europe, and to our own defence, should it be neces-
sity to resort to hostilities.

The Ilo►use divickd on the Amendment—Noes,

l:43—Ayes, 58—Majority, 1'23.
On re opening the gallery, the House was in the
Committee, and the Resolutions proposed by the
Criat.cH,Lott of the Era:lran:En were passed. The
report to he received to-morrow, and the Committee
to sit again on Friday.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, to sec at rest the doubts of Gentlemen as to the
intention of mak;ng the Property-tax perpetual, he
would read his Resolution, which stated, that it was
proposed to renew the Act relating to a Tax upon
Property for one year, commencing from the sth day
of April, 1815. He had not now to propose any new
financial measure, but merely to recommend the
House and the Country not to relax 'in those exer-
tions which they had made for so many years past.
Mr. METHUEN was against the renewal of the
Tax.

Mr. FREMANTLE could not assent to the pro-
positi-in of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, till he
had further intornmtion on the subject of peace or
war.—Adjourued.

11.1.115UR011 AMR.

Vir.NNA, AVRIL S.

The news which arrived here on the 3d from An-
cona, where Mur.tt was in rrso2, was of a very
:•greeable nature ; and, be: idei this, his negociators,
wko :ire here now, had officially announced that they
were nothruized to declare tu :he Allied Powers, that
the lung their master would immediately make corn-
mon c,tuso with th?m, if, on their side, they would
guarantee him his dominions as they were determined
is former Treaties. This proposal was well received,
courie:s were dispatched to Berlin and other
Coarts to bring the news this turn in the nego-
'