Star.
London, England, 1815-06-01 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT4R r PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY Si.
Mr. SHIPDKN, Registrar of Dover Harbour, presented An-
nual Accounts rrlative thereto.
The Irish Assessed Taxes Bill was read the second tune, and
ordered to be committed to-morrow.
The Earl of I AUDERDiILS gave notice, that be should on
Thursday sole:night, move for the second reading of the Bill for
abolishing the mode of punishment by the Pillory, provided the
state of health of the Noble and Learned Lord, who usually oc•
eupieJ nhe Woolcaph,. would admit of his. attendance; if not, be
shckuid propose a farther postponement.
'Their Lordships then adjourned tiU to-morrow.

HOUSE OP COMMONS.
The is of MAN Lighthouse Bill was read a third time, and
pawed; and Mr. Hu iNISSON was directed to carry the same to
the lords.
On the motion of Mr. HUSKISSON, the House went Into a
Committee on the Windsor Forest Bill; when the Resolutions
were agreed to, and the Report was ordered to be received to-
morrow. •
A Petition was presented In favour of Einancipation, from
the Catholics of the County of Galway.
The Scotch Game and Fish Preservation Bill was, after a
few words from Mr. Fl NLA Y, oered to be read a third time
on Imlay neat.
Upon the motion of Mr. ROSE, the House proceeded to a
Committee on the White Herring Fishery Bill. Several of the
clau•es. were-itrongly contested by Mr. FINLAY. At length,
after some farther remarks, during which the Bill was read pa-

ragraph by paragraph,
Sir J. NEWPORT rose, In order to remind the House that
business of more importance remained to be considered by them.
Ms ROSE replied, that he had already deferred the- Bill on
account' of the Right Honourable Baroaet's motion for inquiring
into the Fees of the Irish Courts...-(4f laves I-1f the Bill did
not go on, the fishery was at an eud ; as it must commence on
the 24th of June, and the parties most concerned were waiting
to ascertain what was to be done.
Mr. D. GIDDY made a few observationss in the hope of end-
ing the discussitin. •
After some farther mantis from Mr. PINLAT, Mr. Rosa,
Mr. W. Starrii, Mr../„.P.lsaeht, and Sir J. NawroaT, the
Resolutions were repotted, and the Report was ordered to be
'received to-morrow. •
Mr. J. SMITH. presented a Petition from the inhabit:an,

of Nottingham and its vicinity, against the restoration of the
Bourbons, through the medium of war. „This Petition was
read at length, and prayed the'House. to Withhold its Subsidies,
from foreign Powers, for the present War. Ordered to lie on
the 'Fable.
Lord CASTLEREACH rose to request an Honourable Officer
(General Gascoyne) to postpone his motion for erecting a Monu-
' meat to General Pakenhain, in order that Government might
take time to consider of the precedents that were submitted to
them in favour tit erecting the same.
General GsV:COYNE at once acquiesced in the suggestion of
Lord Castierea,,,,!l.
I.lr. B: BATHURST rose for the purpose of moving for leave
to bring in a P.lll to enable the Select Committee on the Down-
va_trickElection to re-assemble, and for suspending the issue of
Warrants relating to the same.
Some conversation now took place between Mr. TIERNEY,
and the Cua NCR r.o aof the Exen IR, relating toMr. Ruth-
ven's Petition, concerning the Downpatrick Election; after
which, his Petition was ordered to lie on the-Table.
Mr. WESTERN gave notice, that he should on Tuesday next
move for leave tO bring in, a Bill to exempt all Wool of British
• groWth from the payment of Auction Duties. •
BANK NOTES STAMP DUTY.

Mr. P. GRENFELL rose to move for certain
papers relative to the issue of bank-notes by the Bank
of England, and, in duing so, took a review of the
s' profits Which are made by the Bank on its issues,
and what it paid to the public with respect to the
stamp-duty paid on the notes of the Bank of Eng.
land. Previous to the restriction on cash payments,
a composition was paid by the Bank, by way of
stamp duty on their notes, and the sum paid by then
at that time was 12,000. In 1797, one-pound
notes were issued, anti it was' then provided that each
note should pay 21—One million five hundred thou.
sand pounds in one pound notes was then issued,
snaking a whole issue of about 412,000,000; and
they then agreed to raise their composition to 424,000.
Since that time the issue of paper had increased
enormously, and was last year not less than SO mil-
lions ; it might now be taken at 27 millions, yet by
the' composition, as in every other case, a palpable
advantage had been giVen to the Bank oyes the pub.
tic. To remedy this evil was the object of the pre-
sent motion. He should, in concluding, move for
certain accounts of the issue of Bank Paper, and
farther propose that the Bank should yearly make re-
turns of its issues, by which returns the composition
in Stamp Duty might be regulated. The Honour.
, able, entlethan then entered into an examination and
calculation of the sums which the duty on the Bank
Circulation would amount to; and which, he said,
on notes under 420, 'would amount to not less than
4100,000; instead of which no more than 432,000
bad ever been paid ; and thus the Bank annually
withheld from the public a sum of 468,000 in this
one iteit. of duty on notes under 420. The Ho-
nourable Gentleman contended. that the -Bank per-
formed no service towards the public which entitled
them to this advantage ; and concluded by moving
for " An Account of' the Amount of Bank of Eng.
land Notes in circulation on.the Ist and 15th days of
every month, from the Ist of June, 1814, to the let
of April, 1815, inclusive. And also for an account
of the amount of 11Cank.post Bills, in different pe-
riods of 1813, 14, and 15.
Mr. MELLISH replied, and thought it would
be long before these accounts could be altogether'
supplied.
Mr. TIERNEY made a few observations on the
motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.
did .not intend to oppose the motion of the Honour.
able Gentleman. He conceived that he (Mr. Gren.
fell) knew as much of the affairs of the Bank as he did.
Mr. MELLISH explained. •
Mr. PONSONBrdid not know any thing about
the time du...accounts would require in making out,
but certainly he thought they ought to be made out
some time or other.
Mr. GRENFELL .was mach surprized ar the
Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) a. retains him of understanding the
affairs of Banks better than he did. He did not be.
hey', he knew more, or anything like so much ;*but
he bad sufficient information upon the subject to in-
duce him to desire more. The motion was then
agreed to, and the papers ordered.
Mr. GItENFELL then moved, " That the House
should on Wednesday next go into a Committee of
the whole House, to consider the 'rate of composi-
tion paid by the Bank of England, in lieu •of the
Stamp Duty." •
The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER, and Mr.
Tinitxty, made a few observations on 'the mction.
• Mr. WARD .aw no reason why the House should
'not go into a Committee now, and not consider on
the' notice hf its gOihg into one.
The CHANCELLOR "of the .ENcIiEQUEIt

thought there was no reaso4 for R revisal of the Ac-
counts of the Bank.
Mr. HORNER said, it was strange to him that
the Chancellor of the Exchequer should so express
himself, and he thought a revisal absolutely necessary.
Mr. BARING did nut think Much opposition
would be thrown in the way of the present measure
on the part of the Ministry, but he thought it ought
to be treated with a litde more temper than had been
shewn by the House on many measures of late. Still,
he considered it very singular of the Honourable
Member to move, that the House go into a Commit-
tee en Wednesday nett, when he had so little infor-
mation on the subject.
Mr. GRENFk.LL said, there Was information
enough to enable him to perceive that the Bank of
England ought to pay at least three times the amount
of the composition now paid in lieu of Stamp
Duties.
Mr. FORBES had been informed that the Bank
of England paid a farthing for what the country
bankers paid sixpence.
The House then divided, when there were—
For the motion - 43
Apinst it 63
Majority apinst the motion 40*
On the question that the Report of the Committee
of Supply be received, and taken into farther con-
sideration,
Mr. Timm, the CHANCELLOR of the ExcuxQues,
and Lord CASTLEREAGH, made a few observations ;
after which the Resolutions of the Committee were

agreed to.
On the motion of Sir JOHN NEW.POItT,
account of certain fees payable to the Lord Chan•'
cellor, on Commissions and various offices in Ire-
land, amongst which was included that of the
Cleric of the Crown and Hanaper, was ordered to
be laid on the table.

GRANT TO THE PRINCE REGENT. . •
Lord ALTHO RP thought the subject of what he
was going to move a case which required the atten-
tive consideration of the Hose. He feared that he
was but ill qualified for •the task he had undertaken
of•bringing such * question before the House, but he
hoped for their candid hearing and indulgence. His
motion was for a Committee to inquire into the mode
in which the 4100,000 granted to the Prince Regent
on his accession to the Regency had been expended.
The House, he thought, must feel itself interested in
wishing for an explanation on this subject. The
House had not certainly been legally apprised-of the
amount of the debts of his Royal Highness; but still,
as that money was paidinto the hands of the Com.
missioners for that purpose, to defray the debts of the
Prince of Wales, he did not think it proper that it
should have been used for any other purpose. All
his Royal Highness's debts should have been paid by
that sum, from 1785 to the 18th of February, 1812,
nor should any part of it have been employed on the
grand preparations before the holidays. He did not
think the whole of the money had been employed in
paying off the debts of his Royal Highness, and he
had been partly confirmed in his opinion by a state-
ment made by the 'first Minister of the Crown. He
conclucled by moving
" That the House should go into a Committee to inquire into
the application of the Atoom At ranted w the Prhice Regent ohs
his ambition to the Regency, by an Act passed in the 51d year of
hk Majesty's rolgn, for the purpose of defraying the debts of his
Royal Highness.
Lord CASTLEP.EAGH said that a question of
inquiry was always received with favour in that
House; but however that might be, he Should wish
the House to consider, from circumstances which he
bad to detail, whether there was such a case of pre-
sumptive pledge on the disposal of this money as to
make an inquiry necessary ? The Noble Lord (Al.
thorp) had endeavoured to rouse the vigilance of the
House by a very strong 'trim fade case—that there
-bad been a large sum of the public money wasted.
He wished that the House would not be led away by
that general sweeping observation. He shodld en.
deavour to sheer, that. instead of there being any pre-
sumptive blame attached to the Commissioners, or to
whatever persons the payment of his Royal High-
ness's debts were entrusted, the expenditure had not
been nearly so great as those of former reigns ; and
that, instead.of the people's making any additional sa-
crifices, they had had a considerable boon and relief
from the Crown. This would, be seen by a compari-
son of'the Civil List in this and in former reigns. He
should endeavour to chew them, from documents
which he was in possession of, that the present ex-
penditure was very much lees than those of former
reigns.—
Mr. TIERNEY interrupted the Noble Lord, by
saying, that no person ought to argue from a paper
which was not already before the House.
The SPEAKER had never heard of a rule which
hindered a Member from reading extracts from any
document which was not before the House. He had
frequently heard the question discussed in that House,
but had never heard of a rule upon the subject.
Mr. WHITBREAD said that the Civil List Pa-
pers Were in the hands of the Committee ; he wished
to know whether. the Noble Lord was a Member of
that Committee ? If he *was not, he wished to know
how the Noble Lord got possession of the paper of
what right he had to read any one of them ? •
Mr. B. BATHURST thought that Lord Castle-
reagh had a right to read the paper. That paper he
WAS about to read had never been presented to the
Douse ; so that the question was, whether it Was pro-
pertor a Member to read a paper which had not
been laid on the table of the House ?
Mr. HORNER was very. sorry that the House
had been made, on some occasions, little better than
a channel or conduit for the passage of papers from
the Bar to the Upper House. The eyes of the Mem-
bers had been shut—a seal had been put upon the pa-
pen that were passing through, There were ac-
counts—they must not • see what were in these ac-
counts. He wished to know if be himself was justi-
fied in reading a paper which he bad moved for,
__ and
which had been rejected by the House ? The Noble
Lord,- he conceived, was going to pull a paper horn
, his pocket, containing some information; which pa.
per it was not, he considered, proper for him to read.
Lord. CASTLEREAGH said, he was not going
to pull a paper gut of his pocket, but to give the
House the information they required, from papers
which would shortly be laid before them What
good would it do to the House if he were to with-
hold the information from them which they required?
If the House had had these pipers, which they appa-
rently wished to have bads it woitla certainly have

. . •
been .needless in Mm to attempt to give theta inlet-
oration they must have possessed already.
Mr. WHI'VBREAD wished to know whether that
paper was froni amongst those referred to the Com-
mittee on the Civil List? If it was, he should take
the feast of the Hoes upon the propriety of the No•

ble Lord's reading it.
Lord CASTLERAGH did not think that the
argument of the Hon. Member at all - narrowed- his
right, but said he would give the Hon. Member
(Mr. Whitbread) the satisfaction which would enable
him to sit quiet. He when said, that the 'paper Wllt
not one of those which had been referred to the Com.
mittee of the Civil List. The Noble Lord 'remarked,
the expenditure had amounted in the present reign
to upwards of 51 millions, 'whereas, in former reigns
it• had been upward) of 67 millions.- Upon the
whole, his Lordship skewed that the present expen-
diture of the Crown was less than that of former
reigns by £15,876,000. The Crown enjoyed mverall
sources of revenue not under the controul of Patna-.
meat, such as' the Droits of the Admiralty, and the
revenue from the West Indies, a great .portion of
which was given up by it to the Public, and in con-
sequence a great saving made to it. What .he wish-
ed was, that a prejudice may not go rth against
the Crown. when he had shown that by its economy
several millions had been saved to the country. He
contended, that the words of the Act of Parliament
were, that the sum of ieloo,ooo,votecL by it•should
be expended in such a way as ens most convenient
to support the dignity of the Prince Regent on tite
assumption of the Regency. As'to what had beeni
said by the Noble Lord, of 44 outfit," no such word
was. in the Ait ; and if he were to trace the history
of that word, lie would not have to go very far back
into the debates in that House. In the sense in
which that word was taken-at the time of the gram
it meant no more than a sum necessary to cover the
expenses incident to the assumption of Royal au-
thority, considered antecedently as well as prospec-
tively. The question at that time was, as to the was
ture of the expenditure, taken in that view. For a
long time before the Pt ince of Wales. had assumed
the Regency, he had deemed ,k 70,000 per annum.
of his income, which was 4120,000, to the payment
of his debts. and the income of the Princess of
Wales, and he only reserved 850,000 per annum for
the support of his rank ; but on the assumption of the
Royal power, he had been obliged to give op that
system of. economy, auit to enlarge his expenditure in
horses, carriages, dec. The great fete which was
given on his assumption of the Regency was es-
tremely expensive—he believed it was more. than
&NAV ; yet, for this, he received no remuneration
from the country, nor would he accept of it whilst
the restrictions lasted. The £lOO,OOO then, which
had been voted, aid been to cover these expences as
well as those which might be incurred. In order to
support the argument of the Noble Lord, it would
be necessary to separate the Prince as Regent from
the Prince of Wales, for if the Prince of Wales was
to have been fitted out for the assumption of the
Royal authority withoit the aids which his emolu-'
ments es Prince of Wales afforded 'him, it would
have put the country to an infinitely greater expense.
It would have required a sum greater than he would
mention, and to which the 4100.000 already grant-
ed would be bat as a drop of water. But, in-con-
sequence of his having used his emolument as Prince.
of Wales to support his dignity as Regent, and at.
ter wards having given up that emolument when he
had begun to receive that of the Prince Regent, he
had saved the country a sum which .they coeld not
demand from him, and which only his own sense of
economy dictated. The £lOO,OOO which had been
voted went among several credittirs to whom his
Royal Highness had been indebted ; .but those debts
had only been contracted from the time of his being,
appointed Regent to that of his having got rid of the
restrictions. When he had got rid of these restric-
tions, he gave up' his income as Prince of Wales,
with the exception of a small portion which he had
placed in the hinds of Commissioners to pay off
some debts which he had previously incurred ; awl
orders had been given to those Commissioners not to
pay any debts which had been contracted previously
to his assumption of the unrestricted power as Re-
gent. Bur he contended, 'that it was the same whe•
they the sum of £100,0(0 which had been granted
to him was applied for the payment of former or re-
cent expences ; for if it went to pay former debts,
that part df his revenue as Prince of Wales which
had been left for that purpose would be the sooner
redeemed and carried to the Consolidated Fund; and
if it were to pay the debts which wets incidental to
the assumption of the Royal Authority, it would be
the same for which the Noble Lord opposite had said
it was granted. He concluded by stating, that'in
the part which his Royal Highness had acted, in
giving up his income as Prin'ce of Wales, he not on-
ly acted with justice, but with generosity and lib..
rality to the country ; and he hoped the House, with;
that feeling, would. defend from the imputation
which an assent to the present motion would tend to
cast on him.
Mr. TIERNEY wished to strip the question of
the variety of matter, and complicittiOn-ot detail; iq
which it had been involved by the Noble Lord.
The real question was, whether The £loo,ooohad
been voted in conlormity to the Act ? He denied
that the Prince was at any increased expense during
the Year of his restricted Regency 1 and 'he would
ask,. was it a decent argument of the Noble Lord to
suggest that the Prince of• Wales should sell his wine'
and hire hii furniture to. the Prince Regent? He
(Mr. Tierney) had no doubt the Prince Wourist
tthhee firrincwe hdaiscvela!mrigirtoaseprlioceehisdpirnogp.ertßy,utan e
m
it•,
gested by the Noble Lord; Ijad not Carlton Hot*,
and every thing belonging to it, been made Royal
property by the Parliamentary arrangement for pay-
ing his Royal Highness's debts ? The Right Hon.
sGwenertkofinalKirn. egutePy7Secedtta troylitnoimthateTrunsoteesn die,
who
had applied this sum, and described it as a deliberate
pimripattionopriahteadd
bbeenf
insult to the House, This sum, he coatendeu, WAS
AC:loabaPeill.liaafrhfiengtbitiera H.ndou gethat
quarter,
shutiinthie itsy
eyes to such a 'violation
could no longs:- visit With merited reprehension the
same niscontiuu in persons of an humbler descrip-
tion, He looked upon it as a sillyearcetrat, that
horses, carriages, furniture, must have purchas.
ed far the Prince Regent. Did the Noble Lord mean
to say that his kto)rsti Highness was not provided

:with those articles before he was called to exercl4
the royal functions, or that the Prince Regent mut
purchase them from the Prince of Wales ? It was
sways his (Mr. Tierney's) wish, that his R0y.41
saabgihynewsisth a.
's
yidebtsowlsehobuitvildabeg.4pa4eider,etin,
vi order that he
rn
might assume the reins of Government
it
twitwhouLisd
toyal mind perfectly at ease. But Ministers then
sesented any. discovery of the state of his affairs, pro.
be in their power to reveal, and also to atone for
their conduct to his Royal Highness in 1795, by
their be at • a time lchen be had it in hi: •
power to give them places. The present case was
certainly one that Called for inquiry, and the Com.
missioners ought to be examined as to the mode (,f
the application of the £CIOO,OOO, which he believer'
would be found to be the work of a cabal. If a:-
examination should not take place, the people o.
England would say that the House was wholly iu
different to the birchen of the people. though cad
man wasasadato pay a tenth of his income. urn
the present question the character of the House eir;i
mute at stake than upon any other—( Hear, hvr)
as it would be said that those who should vote agiins
inquiry were paying court to the Crown.--(11at
hear.)—ln the resent state of she country every mar.
should be convinced that he did not pay one farthini
more than was indispensably necessity : all he want •
ed was a CoMinittee ; bit not like that on the Civi
List, most of the members bf which had been men i
official situations. Should inquiry be refused, cusp,
cibn would work .on the public mind, and coi,s,
'fluently do more mischief than any inquiry posit!):
could do.
Mr. LEACH could not adopt the conchtsien c•
his Right Honourable Friend, nor did there exist th
least •foundation for the charges. An Fknourabl
Friend of his (Mr. Adam) had been concerned i
this transaction, and no suspicion could attach to an,
transaction in which he had borne a leading share._
Though the question appeared to him to be a mute•
of form, yet his vote should not depend on technic;
reasoning ; as by the application that had been mad,
of this money, not a shilling of expense had been
curred beyond the intention of Parliament. A vet
of Parliament proved that 417,000 of the sum ha
been applied agreeably to the meaning of tI: vat.-
-and the remaining 453,000 to liquidate outstandin:
claims. It was of no consequence whether the but
had been applied in the manner prescribed by Park
meat, or to discharge claims that had been sanctione,.
by Parliament.— (Hear, hear, from the Opfsabitic..).—
jslow the application of £50,000 annually had bee..
sanctioned by Parliament to liquidate certain debt..
and by so much of the grant of £lOO,OOO havin:-
been applied in that manner, a saving of £50,000 fo;-
one year would take place. For these and vatiou
other reasons he was decidedly against the mot.en.
Mr.' W. WYNNE had never heard a speech th'
was more directly against the privilege of Park
meet, the commit of that House aver the public ms
ney, and the very substance of the Constitution, tha-
that of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman %h
hid just sat down—(Hear, hear.) 'The nature of the;
.speech would have fully justified him in calling tit.:
Honourable Gentleman to order—(Hear, hear.) Ai
it was a high misdemeanour to apply money in an.:
other way than that for which it hid been voted Is:-
Parliament. Even money voted for the service of tl
`Navy could not be applied to that of the Arm'.
'though perhaps equally necessary ; and by Act c•
Parliament heavy penalties were imposed upon
Officers of the Exchequer, if they should apply atone
to any other purpose than that for which it Had bee .
voted by the Houk. It had keen stated by tf. :
last speaker, that the money had been applied to the
discharge of debts for which Parliament was pledged ;
bat that he denieds as the debts had never been rt
' cognised by Parliament, and could not be s', as they
had been contracted in defiance of an Act of cite Lt
gislature. The debts of nu Prince of Wales Wm;
been so recognised, and those of Frederick Prince c:
Wales had never been paid. He gave his cordhi
assent to the motion.
Mr. LONG contended that the }Nile had recog-
nised the debts, though they might not be pledged
to the payment of them. The sum that had beet.
granted by Parliament for the debts of the (riv:l
List had been 43,213,000 ; and the sum that had
been given by the Crown from its own funds sea:
42,828,000, and the difference betwixt these sunr
was all that had been advanced by the public. T!'t
Prince Regent had also, on succeeding tu the unre
stricted Regency, considerably increased his esta
blishment : he should vote against the motion.
Mr. PONSONBY had telt much pain tru:n the
present debate, and from the uncoustituuou
speeches that had been delivered. By continued am:
strenuous exertions that House had acquired the right
of voting the public money, and controlling the
lie expenditure against both the Crown and the House
of Peers, and now it was attempted by the act of an
officer to set at nought the privileges of that House.
Parliament knew nothing of the Prince's debts ; but
even bad they been sanctioned by the House, that
would be no justification of such conduct as the pre.
sent. For himself, he always wished that the Wine
had known of the Prince's debts, and he was sure
'there could have been but one opinion as to the pre•
priety of discharging them. The question had beta
termed one of form; but it involved those rights for
which our ancestors had fought and bled.—Heoi
hear.)—When Charles I. could raise no more munch
illegally, by means of prostitute lawyers and unprin•
elpled judges, he came to Parliament and said, give
me money and your own Commissioners shall mar
.is.—(Hear.)—The conttoul over the public n! el
'in the bands of the House of Commons was art the
very essence of the British Constitution, and the WA
of our liberty. Had only 4100 been applied to the
payment Of the Prince's debts, it•would have been
violation of the Act, fol. it was the Principle that viel
to be looked to, and the violation of it be regard
With un ratified reprobation.
The'SOLICITOR GENERAL. contended, tha,
the law had not been violated, and that thin
been no misapplication to • call for a Committee,
'which in other words viduld be an unmerited censure
on his Royal Highness the Prince Regent.
mmadeitbirttes.ord,ve&r.Woidixaßii,TEhokii:v,:ra
forfcoargseticafigemadintn-ino
jottAteecbeeorn.
•
Mr. CA LCRArr conopieeil, tbautn.flattlyß
Hipness the l'Xince ,Regent lad been tr°cYsarl.;
ed'bi hitianwat Oa sevetat loccisionS; but this