Star.
London, England, 1805-05-31 00:00:00

MIDDLESWX ELECTION.

Mr. PETER MOORE prefented a petition from feveral per-
fon, fummoncd as wittuffes en the part of Mr Mainw.ring, before
the Committee on the Middiefex Elodion, complaining that the
agents for that Election refuted to make them due rompenfation.
Mr. Moore Rated, that a petition to the fame effect had been pre-
tented to a Noble Lord, the Chairman of that Committer, about
two months fince (Lord Methuen), and that the Noble Lord had
given it to the Solicitor, with a hope that juftice would be done to
the parties without farther trouble. The Solicitor, however, had
done nothing in the matter. A fecond Petition was then offered
to him to prefent to the Houfe ; be put it into the hands of the
Noble Lord, and it was again referred to the Solicitor, who pledg-
ed hinifelf to Mr. Moorc that juftice thould be done. Six weeks
bad now cbpfeil, and no juftice waa done—and, therefore, at the
recommendatirm of the Noble Lord, it became his duty now to
offer the Petition to the Houk, praying their interference to fee
jultice door.

Mr. SPEAKER felt it his duty to obferve, that until the objtdt
of the Petition was more fpecifically defined, it was uncertain
whether the Houfe could Interfere. If it was for compenfation
from the public purfe, undoubtedly it woul•t not be proper for the
Houle to receive it. If, for the Houfe to interfere, in order that
the party might be obliged to pay his own witty ties, certainly it
would be very proper. At pref., nt it would bear either eonftruc-
don. If the latter was the objea, it would be better to read the
precedent of the Carlifle Cafe, in order to thew the Houle the
propriety of entertaining the Petition, if it thought fit.
The precedent entered was read, and the Petition reeelve4, zed
enicred to lie on the table.
IMPEACIINFIT OF Loma MELVILLE.
Mr. WHITBREAD role, and obferved, that in
confequence of an intimation that the Report of the
Sele&Committee would not be pi inted and ready for
delivery before Saturday next, and conceiving the
intermediate time with the intervention of the
holi-
days, might not afford Members fufficient oppor-
tunity of reading that Report with the confideration
it required, preparatrry to the dircullion of which
he had given notice as for Thurfday next ; he conceiv-
ed it would be deferable further to poßpone his mo-
tion until a fubfeqnent day. It was his intention to
have named Mrndgy fe'nnight, but underßanding
that would not be a convenient day for the Right
Hon-urableGentleman oppofite to him (Mr. Pitt), he
thould name Tuefday fe'nnight.
-The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, on
the grounds Aligned, agreed to the propriety of poft•
poning the Hon. Member's motion. But the Hon.
Memiber had alfo given notice of his intention to move
Certain other refolutions, the fubjeEt of which was to
be his (Mr. Pints) conduit. Of the nature of thofe
refolutions he was not apprifed, but if t!ey did run
to any great length, fo •as to require much time for
confideration—if the Hon. Member did not mean to
bring forward thofe refolutions on a ditlialtday,
frquent to his firft motion, he could with it to be
brought forward at an earlier day. •
Mr. WHITBREAD replied, it was h;s with to
bring it forward on as early a day as potrible, but the
Right Hon. Gentleman midi perceive it was neceffary
the Houfe thould be fully in potreflion of the Report,
upon the fubftance of which his refolutions would be
founded, as involving the conduit of the Right En.
nourable Gentleman ; and that the difcuflion repell-
ing the impeachment of another perfon, a Noble
Lord, (hould precede the propofition of thofe refolu-
tions,ab they would be materiallr conneeed with that •
difcuflion. He thould gratify his own feeling more
by bringing them forward on Thorfday than on the
I,,ng:•r day, but the motives he had affigned to the
Houle would, he hoped, juflify him in•the delay.—
It was his intention firlt to move the impeachment,
and, immediately after that thould be difpofed of,
the Refolutions.

Mr. CANNING was for the difcuoion upon the
Refolotion.s being on a diltindl day, and Caw no rea-
fon why it might not be much earlier than Tucklay
fe'nnight.
Mr. HENRY LASCELLES raid, the only arti-
cle in the Report which went to found the impeach-
ment of Lord Melville, was that refpedling the affair
of Mr. Trotter. The other three articles, which eon-
cerned the Right Hon. Gentleman below him (Mr.
Pitt), were thofe refpeeling Mr. Raikes, Mr. Jelltcoe,
and the borrowing of forty thoufand pounds, which
were totally dinina from the other. He could, there-
fore, fee no reafon why any refolutions, founded up-
on thofe articles, might not.be brought forward at a
much earlier day ; and if no other Member of the
Committee should be difpofed to move that thofe
re-
folutions be taken into confederation at an earlier day,
he would move it himfelf immediately after the reed's.
Mr. WHITBREAD would put it to the difcretiro
of the Honourable Gentleman, and the candour 4,1
the Houk, whether it was in ffriEl confot.mity with
the habits of Parliamentary proceeding, when one

c..

' Gentleman gave notice of a rary:on for a particular
day, that another (Ito,i'd ti i• .ii.d trove t.i bring it
forward on an eat Att. tiy.y. Sit,h a proceeding, he
believed, would not he t'ecmed very decorous, nor
cooldhe think that rte Hoii4e would countenance it.
He was not thc organ of the Committee, nor did he
ever airtime fo to be. Before he had formed any in-
tention of to inning forwa.d any motion for the im-
peachment of Lord Mel' nbferving no fuch in-
tention to be mentioned on the Committee, he afked
the Hon. Member who was Chairman, whether it
was intended to bring forward any motion on the
fubjelt ? and underßood from him it was not. He
then felt it his duty to bring forward the motions of
which he had given notice, and he trolled the Houfe
would allow him to choofe the mode and order which
he deemed moll expedient for the public gond.
Mr. H. LASCELLES apologiftd, by ilating, that
what he had faid with refpeet to his intention of mov-
ing an cattier day, had been without adverting to
the cultomary order of proceeding, which he thould
be lorry to infringe npon.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
alked, if the Honourable Member meant to move
thc Impeachment and the Refolutions both on the
fame day ?
Mr. WHITBREAD anfwered, he fhoold certainly
be ready to bring forward the Refolutions, as foot;
after the impeachment thould be difpofed of, as any
Member of the Houle Should be inclined to hear him.
Mr. FOX obferved, that undoubtedly if the Right
Hon. Gentleman or his friends wifhed the refolutions
to be moved 6rft, they might, Without irregularity,
do fo. They would judge. As to the intention an-
notinceo by the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Laf-
celles). that likewife was matter of difcreuon far the
Minifter and his friends ; and delicate as it might
feem in the Right Hon. Genticsmn'g friends, or in
the Hon. Member, to bring forward filch a motion,
he was free to own that it was competent to any Mem-
ber of the Committee fo to dn.
Here ended the converfation.
CURATES RILL.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL moved the third
reading of the Stipendiary Curates' Bill.
Mr. BARHAM oppoled the motion. He thought
it a Bill that took away part of the property of the
Re tor, although the Duty was performed. If the
duty were not performed, he might fee tome reafon
for the meafure. The Bill was at variance with ex-

Ming items, and at variance with its own enat
ments. If the property of the church was to be at-
tacked, let it be attacked direftly and openly, and
not indirdlly and in difguife. He was one who with-
ed the Church fupported by the State, believing our
church to be upon the whole the pureft church in
Chriflendom. But the prefent Bill tended to vitiate
the Conflitution, and fithvert the ellabliihmert of the
Church. Not only the eedellaftical, but political
power it conferred on the Bifhops was alarming. It
gade opportunities for their interfering in elections,
which, from cafes eafily to be remembered, might
be much and very gtievoufly abnfed. On the other
hand, it (honk to the bate the foundation of all eccle-
fiallical property. The tenure of fuch property
would, after the paling of this Bill, Arnold it pars,
be totally changed. The (tale of appropriation did
not meafure income by the nectaities of the curate,
but by the opulence of the living. What, under the
circurnilances, he Ihould ha% t. thought, and did
think, molt defirable, was to have moved for a Com-
mittee to examine into the flames bearing on the fob-
jeft, and generally to confider of the belt mode of re-
gulating the interefis of the Curates and others af-
feed by the prefent queftion.
Mr. ALEXANDER was decidedly inimical to
the meafure. Ever fince the commencement of the
French Revolution, Church property was• rendered
infecure by new doetrines. The prefent 841 partook
of the chardler of the Revolutionary edicts of the
French Jacobins. Church property is uafettled by
fuch laws. The King and Parliament ought to refill
innovation in the rights of property with regard to
the Church.

Mr. FULLER knew that in the County of Suffex,
which he had the honour to reprefent, the Clergy had
not had time to make up their minds as to the Bill.
—He, therefore, if feconded, fhnuld prefs that the
Bill fhnuld not be read a third time until this day Gx
month,.

Mr. DEVERELL thought the meafure both pre.
mature and imperfect. He (hould not have oppofed
it if it had thrown the Church property into a mafs,
and propofed to appoint a Vicar Gtneral of Church
Revenues, who Ihould dittribute incomes to the Cu-
rates as they might be worthy. At prefent it was a
Bill to enlarge and extend the patronage of the Bi.
(hop. It it W.ll, for the good of the public, he Mould
not objeCi ; but when it was a Bill empowering the
Bilbops to rsife the incomes of the Curates to tsol.
or 2501. a year, it was a Bill of mere diocefan patro-
nage. As far as it changed the ufage of the law of
the land, it was fill more objectionable. No appeal
laid but to the Qnarter Seffions, or the Archbiffiop in
London. It took away the ordinary option of the
common law. For all there reafons he thought the
rneafure nittfht to be poflponed.
Mr. GRAHAM had fo great an ()Net:film to
the Bill, that ha would fiippott the Amendment.—
The sill placed the Clergy in a worfe lunation than
any other of hit Majesty's fubjees. It was a Bill to
enforceihe reliance of Curates. but to tallith the
Rectors..

Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE fupported the Bill.
It went no.farther than other Statutes, excepting in
as far as relatcd to livings above tool. a year. The
oblation to"thiflaw would be a good oblation to all
other laws, .
Mr. POLE CAREW thought the meafure incom-
plete. It ought to have been deviled fo as to em.
brace the fubje& of great Ecelefiaffical Bodies, that
did not give more than from vol. to 501. a year,
though their revenues were enormous.
Lord PORCHESTER went over the grounds of
his former arguments againft the meafure. He
thought the meafure founded on the antient Jacobin
principle. The worn reform and innovation would
be, if it were attempted, to reform the Church on
thole principles fo exploded by Gentlemen over againft
him on former occafions, yet the very principles now
let up in this Bill. If the Gentlemen of Oppofition
had Paid, in 1794 or I •t 95, that the Church revenues
were falaries, mere properties,wh:ch the public gave
and the public might take awa7, the other fide ivould
have denounced filch language as unwarrantable and
unconititutional. He thought the Bill uoprineirled,

ineriberent. and %ticked. He moved an amendmm%
that this fill be read a third t;ine this day tLr,
mnt

The ATTORNEY GENERAL defended e,
meafure, hut cc:mid r.r.t E 0 over a ground of arg:.
ment which had hen previoully fn conteßed. tit
infißed that there was nothing new in the principle
of the Bill, and took 'flame to lrmfelf for nothing E
much as that he did not introduce it before.

The Honfe now dividet*,for the otig:nal ma.
tion, 38—for the amendment, 7—Majority for the
Bill, 2r .

The Bill was accordingly read a third time. and,
after tome verbal amendments, paired, and fent to ti.!.
Lords.

CALICO PRINTERS,

Mr. P. MOORE rote, purfuant to notice, to mt;
the appointment of a Committee to examine the pe-
tition he had the honour to prefent to the Houfe in
the month of March fait, from the Journeymen Ca
lien Printers ; and alto to move that the evidence
taken before a Committee in the courfe of the latt
ledion upon this fubjea, fhould be referred to the
confideration of the laid Committee, in order to
make a )report thereon, In bringing forward this
bulineft, the Honourable Member was glad to fee
the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) in his
place, as he was led to believe that that Right Ho.
nourahle Gentleman was not unfriendly to the objeet
of the Petitioners ; but on the contrary, rather dif-
pofed to accelerate their relief, and to render them
complete jußice. The knowledge of this circum-
fiance without doors would., he hoped, have the ef-
fed of urging the matters in the calico printing trade
to accede to that amicable adjuilment with the jour-
neymen, which had bun fo firotigly recommended
by an Honourable Friend of his (Mr. Sheridan)
about the dole of the lail fawns. It was very
Much to be regretted that inch an adjußmeot had
not taken place, and the difinclination of the mallets
to content to it, rendered it indifptnfably neceffary
to the caufe of jullice, that fome legiflative proceed-
ing fhould be adopted. He had confillted with the
Chairman of the Committee which fat fall lemons,
and it was his opinion, with that of many other
Members of that Committee, that it was highly pro-
per that fomething decided fhould be done. The
queßion for confideration, as it (frock him, was this,
whether the ordinary and ellablifhed relation between
mailers and journeymen in the other mechanical
profeffions fhould exill in the trade of the Calico
Printers. At prefent no fuch relation did mill. All
the advantages of the Winn of apprenticeihip were,
in this trade, on the fide of the mailers, which, the
moment an apprenticelhip expired, the perfon who
ferved it was likely to be thrown out of bread, with-
out even the chanciof futuri employment. It was,
he contended, one of the fit ft duties of a good go.
vernment, particularly in a trading country, to at-
tend to a cafe of this nature. While the fyflem of
prenticefhips went on, it was furely unfair that it
fhould operate altogether in favour of one of the
contrasting parties ; the one devoting fo many years
of his life to qualify himfelf to work as a journey-
man at a trade, from the opportunity of employment
at which the meter excludes him, by the extreme
and fucceffive multiplication of apprentices. In con-
fequence of this practice, there were at prefent fome
thoufands of journeymen calico printers out of work,
the greater part of whomare refufid employment,
%Welk they content to figs a fecond contrast, or in-
denture, binding themfelves to ferve a kind of fecond
apprenticefhip, on the terms ptekribed by the me-
ters. The difference between the wages of an ap-
prentice and a joarneyman was; be °bre:wed, from
as. and 76. to 245. and 301. per week. Of courfe
the mailers were naturally difpofed to prefer the for-
mer. It was, however, incumbent on thole to whom
the duty of legiflative arrangement belonged, to
confider fairly the interefts of all claffes. And the
interest of the mailer was not, furely, entitled to loch
a preference as fhould put that of the journeyman
entirely out of view. But with refpea to the intereft
of the community ; the value of any article of ma-
aufaeure was to be eflimated in a peat meafure with
reference to the price of labour. Now, as the calico
printers fold their goods at a price, founded on the
rate of wages at 3os. per week, although they ob-
tained perfons to work at 41. and 7s. it !truck his
mind that they had more profit than they were jullly
entitled to. For the fast was, that although the jour.
neymen were deprived of their fubfillence, to make
way for the employment of boys, and thus to reduce
the expence of manufacture, no reduction whatever
took place in confequence, of the price of the article
to the public. All the profit was confined to the
mailer—none whatever, was given to the confumer.
It really appeared to him that inch a cafe formed a
fit fubjea for taxation, and ought to be made pro-
duaive to the revenue. The Hon. Member conclude
ed with fubmitting his motion.
Mr. ROSE was ready to admit the importance of
this queflion, and was fully inclined to give the us.
moil attention to the prayer of the petitioners. Their
cafe, he was well allured, was Mervin.; of confider.
ation. But from the' knowledge he had of a limilar
bufinefs in the courfe of the two lall felCons (the
Cotton Weavers Petition) he was much afraid that
the fubjea was too cotnpticated to be gone into at
the prefent advanced period of the feffion ; that it
could not be difpofed of in one or two days, as the
Honourable Mover feemed to imagine, nor in fo
many weeks. He therefore fubmitted to the Honour-
able Gentleman, whether it would not be better to
papone the matter till the next lei:lion, when as
early as be chofe to bring it forward, be (Mr. Role)
fhould be ready to give /um any afii Rance in his power.
Mr. EGERTON and Mr. LASCELLES thought
the cafe of the petitioners highly deferving of atten-
tion, but concurred with the Honourable Gentleman
who fpoke lalt, that it was too late in the feffions at
prefent to give it all the confideration that was due
to it.

Mr. MOORE expreffed his unwillingnefs to prefs
the fubjea at prefent. He writhed and hoped that
Minifter would take up the cafe of the petitioners,
and have juftice done to them. They could hardly
fele& a cafe whore the exertion of their influence
would do them more honour. The petitioners he
felr to be treated with great injuffice, and he miffed
that the Gentlemen who proferred a dirpofition to at-
tend to their claims, would give him their aflitiance
next feffions, when, at an early period, he pledged
himfelf to bring the fubje.ft before the Houfe. • The
Honourable Member, with leave of the Houfe, with-
-drew his motion.—Adjgurned.