Star.
London, England, 1801-03-11 00:00:00

tics, toy principles, and my pall condarrt. He de-
', fired you to keep tilde out of view. I defu:e, Sir,
-that they nvy all be taken into confideration.
The more they arc fertainived I fliall be the better
pleated. You are bound to confider thefe topics
before you come to a jug conelufion, and I am at
a lots what could be the Noble Lord's motive for
giving you fuch advice.—There is an At which
has drawn univerfal applaufe, which has been uni-
formly approved by both fides of the Houfe, and
confiderei as a powerful proteelign to their privi-
leges by the people at large. Sir, I was the caufe
of that Ad. To me, to me alone, it .was owing
that the Bill was brought in kyr the Noble Lord's
grandfather (Mr. George Grenville). An at-
tempt fimilar to that now making againft myfelf
was then made againft an acquaintance of the
Noble Lord's great uncle. He was a ftranger to
me, but—
There was here a cry of orde,r, and Mr. Speaker
reminded the Hon. Gentleman, that he was wan-
dering from the queffion then before the Houfe.
Mr. Home Tooke continued. I would beg you to
confider, Sir, that unlas human minds were framed
all alike, it mall be impoffible to judge the tendency
of what a man fays, till he comes to the end of it.
This lentiment I heard very lately come from that
Chair.—l was not, Sir, fitying any thing wide
of the queftion in debate. I have long had a ha-
bit of reafoning, by which I gain moll important
• conceffions from thofe, not much inclined to my
caufe, or that of liberality, from its being kept a
• fecret from thefe Gentlemen, that they were im-
portant. There are two modes of reafoning. The
one begins where the other ends. I ufe the on •
or other according to the difpofition of thofe whom
I addrefs. When I fpoke of the Grenville Aft,
and the caufe of its being enacted, I had an objed
in view nearly concerned with this oluellion. An
' attempt of the fame nature with that which gave
rife to it is now renewed. If the Noble Lord thall
be fuccefsful, he will only have the honour to undo
what the Ad of his grand-father has done. In-
fluence in this Houfe will refume its reign ; power
• will be omnipotent, and right will be trampled
upon. The Noble Lord Rated the queftion to be
ferious—it is rather more ferious than he was
aware of. It involves the rights and property per-
haps of a no inconfiderable number. Not only
may it again depend upon the Minifter, whether
the lawful Reprefcntative of the people 1110 coo-
tinue in his feat ; but if the old praelice is reflored,
• all private property in boroughs (if there be any
loch a thing, Sir), will be completely annihilated ;
at leaft it will all be laid at the feet of the Mini-
, fter. I rejoice to think that this argument mull
; have weight with the bad as well as the good, not
only with men of principle, but with thofe altoge-
: ther unprincipled. A ma„ is never fo fure to fue-
• ceed as when he can thus add-ers both divifions of
mankind. I hope, Sir, my all:Ilion to the Grenville
Aft is not now thought fo completely irrelevant.
—I apprehend that the lawyers are at the bottom
of this motion of the noble Lord's. I know well
the modes which thofe Gentlemen purfue in liriv-
ing to accomplifh their ends. Do not let me be
mifunderflood, Sir. I love and honour the pro-
feffion. I had once a near prolped of becoming a
member of it. About five and forty years ago,
I believe, the very term in which the prefent Chief
Juftice of the King's Bench entered as a (Indent, I
myfelf was inrolled. I reverence the proftaion of
the Ltwyers ; I with to Gon that I could always
approve of their pradice. Their motto, I mull
lay, however, is &his an virtu:. About, the jut.
tice of the caufe in which they engage, they are
not over folicitous, nor are they very fcrnpulous,
about the means they employ to gain their ends.
l'hey teem here to have withed to make a jumble,
a battle, and a fcramble, and by throwing every
thing into contrition, to get :t lumping vote. From,'
the pradice I mull nee:lf:tray infer that this has
been the advice, and thefe have been the advifers.
The rcfult of this clifeuftion is of no great confe-•
quence tome. However, I reckon myfelf bound•
to refill ads of injuftice and oppieffion, that they
may not be drawn into a precedent. I (hall there-
fore Rate the queflion, and nothing more on my
part, I truft, 1611 be neccflary. I (tall be able,
I hope, to place it in fo clear a light that it will
be underftood by any country gentleman, or even
by any lady, as well as by the profoundell lawyer.
If the Houfe is to determine whether a perfon who
has once been in orders can tit here, it is their du-
ty firft to confider whether there is any fpecific
law againft it? That this queftion mull be decided
in the negative is pretty clear from the line of con-
duet which has been purfued this day. To what
other law are you next to retort ? You furely
will not rely implicitly upon the opinions of Conn-
fel, however highly you may think of their know-
ledge, integrity, and difintereftednefs. Five quef-
tions immediately prefentthemfelses,for this grand
queaion is the fruitful mother of many more. I
fhould be very happy, Sir, if all thefe five were
decided againft me, for if one of them is decided
in my favour, all is loft, ii:/9/ifio down go the
conteft and the controverfy. l'he queffion is at
prefent in confuted and perplexed that all mull be
puzzled with it. It puzzled me, Sir, for tome
time ; at laa I fucceeded in reducing it to dillind
heads. We mull now have recourfe to the canon
law, and afle, in the firft place, whether the canon
law legally bind: the procueGngi of the Houfe? I have
no intention whatever, Sir, to difcufs the point. I
merely with to thew the enquiries the Houfe mull
enter into before they come to a determination.
We mull next examine whether the canon law is
binding upon the Clergy, in the proleffion and out
of it, in their civil, as well as religious capacity ?
In the third place, is the canon law binding
upon me, who have long ceafcd to officiate as.a
prieß, and have long laid down that facred cha-
railer ? Two-others Mu remain behind equally dif-
ficult of folution, and equally neccffary to be folved.
Is it poffible for any one who has once entered into
holy orders again to become one of the laity, or is
it once a captain, and always a captain ? And
fuppofing he mull remain a clergyman all
his days, are the duties of a Legiflator incompati•
blc with his clerical charader F I know there are
three canons on this fubjeel. One rays, a clergy.
man (hall not bear arms ; another, a clergyman
mall not be a civil magitirate ; and the third, that a

alargyman flail' not ufe hirnfelf as a-layman. Cle-
rical Reprefentatives of the people certainly have
not been very common, but we have clerical vo-1
lunteers and clerical jultices of the peace. • The
two &ft canons arc therefore kept back, and the
NI only is relied on. It is then to be determined
whether a clergyman, by having a feat in this
Houfe, does or does not ufe himlelf as a layman?
'I laid I would not argue there points. I throw
out there things for the confederation of the Learn-
ed Gentleman over the way, and I wilh them fully
to confider this llaternent. I have great faith to
put in their opinion. Let them declare thairj.tlg•
meat before the Houfe comes to a final decilion.
Having faid In, I cannot hell; advet ting to the
elegant tendency of fome things that fell fromt the
Noble Lord. It mull be allowed that he dif-
played a liberal, generous, and elevated fpirit !
At the fame time rhope the Houfe will pay little
regard to his boailed flake in the country. I too
have a flake in the country, and a deep flake. It
is not flolen to be fore from a hedge, but I
planted it myfelf. This flake, Sir, I would not
exchange for all the notes of the Noble Lord, to-
gether with all the notes of all his conneations. In.
this too I think mine is different from his, and far
to be preferred to it. His cannot be increafed
without detracting from the public flock. Mine
is my charaater, and I cannot add to it with Out
having added to the information, comfort, and
happinefs of the public.
Mr. YORKE role to fay a few words on the quef-
don before the Houfe. He conceived that the rub.
kat which had given birth to the prefent dilauf-
fion was one which, as it wholly regarded the pri-
vileges of die Houfe, was open to every Gentleman
who chore to bring it under confideration. In
bringing it under the view of the Houfe, he had
his option which mode he fhould -adopt for that
purpofe. Whether the mode the Noble Lord had
adopted was the one in all relpeets the Moil expe-
dient, he was not prepared to determine ; but he
was unable to fee that it was liable to any very
ferious objeetion. The Houle had heard what the
Noble Lord had Dated on a former occallon ;
they had admitted the fubjeet to be of the utmoil
importance ; and to enable them to decide a great
conflitutional point,they had, in conformity to a mo-
tion,called certain perfons to attend at their Bar. He
was furprifed to hear the objections which had this
evening been produced againit this mode of pro-
ceeding. Gentlemen admitted that the queflion of
the eligibility of Priefis to a Scat in Parliament
was highly important in itfelf, and one on which
the Houfe was bound, by the flrongeft fenfe of re-
gard traits rights, to difcufs with the greater at-
tention ; but they, by an extraordinary inconfil
tency, were adverfe to an order whore Objeet was,
to afccrtain whether a Member of the Houfe was
really in Sacred Orders ? They allowed that the
queftion ariling out of the raft was one of the ut-
conrequence, but they were unwilling to ac-
cede to any fteps to eflablifh the very faet from
which the queftion only could originate. He truft-
ed, on this ground, that, as the queftion was allow.
ed on all hands to be one worthy of the confidera-
don of the Houfe, and as they had, by a previous
Order, called certain perfons to their Bar to prove
a fait preparatory to its difauffion, they would now
adhere to that Order, and proceed in the regular
courfe of proceeding which they had prevroullyl
Mr. Fox contended that he had Dill heard no
grounds whatever ltated which juflified the pro.
pored entitle of proceedings. • The Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Yorke) had Dated indeed that'
the evidence of certain perfons would ellabliih
particular at et preparatory to the dikuiTion of a
great conflitutional queftion, but this was no flata
ment of a previous determination of the Houle ti
enter at all into the dikullion of this quellion.—
He concurred entirely with the RNht Hon. Gen-
tleman as to the importance of the rubrequent
queftion that might arife out of the filet which the
witncfres were to prove, and the more important
it was, the more neceffary was it not to elver ob
the conlideration of it, by violating the long ella
Walled orders of Parliament.
Mr. Sim tom conceived that much of the difcuf
lion which had been introduced into the fpeeelt of
the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. H. Tooke) was wholly
irrelevant to the quellian under confideration, and
profeffed his determination therefore to aircet hi-
arguments folely to fuch parts of it as teemed tt
him to bear on the fubjeet. The Hon. Gentleman
had argued againit the neceffity of the motion from
his own confection of the fiat it was defianed to
eftablifh, and in illuftrating this argument made
an application of .t common rule or law, that when
the Court have obtained furficient evidence of a fiat,
examination becomesunneceffary. On thisprinciple
he had contended, that after he admitted the fad
of his having been a PrieD, the examination of wit-
neffes at the Bar to prove it, was altogether nuga-
tory. This confellion might perhaps be rufficient
to bind him as an individual ; but it could not he
regarded as valid by the Houk, in a cafe where the
rights of other perfons were it:volved. In this cafe
it was not merely the rights of the Honourable
Gentleman, as an individual, that the Houk were
obligated totake under their contideratioraas affect-
ed by this admiflion, but it was alfo the rights of
the Borough of Old Sarum, in the perfon of its
Reprefentative. Though there might be a fur.
ficient giouud of procedure on this admiflion, in
any thing involving the Honourable Gentleman's
own intereas, Dill as the interells of other perfons
were at the fame time implicated, the Houfe could
not, confiDently with their duty, admit it, as fuch
evidence as would fanetion any future decifion they
might adopt on the general queftion. Having
thus endeavoured to invalidate the argument from
admiflion, he proceeded to advert to the reafoning
of another Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Fox),
whom he had ever heard with a high degree of
pleafure. From the long experience, the fplendid
talents, and extenfive knowledge of-that Honoura-
ble Gentleman, it was indeed impoffible ever to
hear him addrefs the Houfc without expelling to
derive information on any fubjeet to which he
Icalled their attention. On the prefent occafion he
had expeaed that his long experience and intimate
acquaintance with the orders of the Houfe, would
have enabled him to have Dated precedents eta- I