Star.
London, England, 1815-06-13 00:00:00

of the present eircurostencea4l Europe, but out of
the arrangement which had been though; edeisable
'at a period of the late war, when the stateot things
was not so favourable to the Allies, as they were at
a subsequent time, andeilien but for the arrange-
meht referred to, it mirht have been impossible tor
Rusth; to make the efforts she has made, and which
had led to the Treaty of Paris. The fortifications.in
the Netherlands would call for no advance from this
country the present year. The.systtrn of fortifying
the Netherlands hc considered wise, even as a mea-
sure of economy. It was necessary to preserve Hol-
land •ind her Navy independgnt of France, and this
could only be secured by milling the Netherlands
strong as a military position. This would save the
country the excessive expence of repelling the at-
tempts which France might be induced to make at
any future period. With this view of the subject, be
conceived this country to be highly interested in rot-
tifying the Netherlands in the manner proposed, the
expence of which would gradually be met. With
respect to the loan raised in Holland, for service of
Russia, which we were called on to pay, he really
was not in possession of the information necessary to
enable him to say whether or not the anecdote re-
counted by the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Whit-
bread) of its origin, was correct. If the loan were
raised for the purpose which had been stated, he
(Lord Castlereagh) would join with him (bir.White
bread) to reprobate its object—but the propriety or
impropriety of the present arrangement could natsiw
deteralined by the policy which caused the loan tabs
railed. The fact was, such a debt was in existence,
and the question for the Committee to consider was,
whether Russia was entitled to such assistance, and
whether Holland had done any thing to entitle her to
expect that England would give it ? He then pro-
ceeded to set forth the claims which Russia bad to
the gratitude of Holland, and the necessity of those
charges being cheerfully borne by a country deli-
vered from foreign oppression, which were attendant
on the operations of those who were the moans of re-
storing its liberty. If nations placed in this situation
failed gratefully to take upon themselves such ,ex-
peaces, the effect would be fatal to the cause of
freedom, as those great Powers'who had the msan,
of procuring their emancipation, would be taught
to pursue a more insulated line of policy—(Hain)
On the advance of the Allies to the Rhine. the So-
vereigns of the smaller States (twenty-two in number)
had,agreed in aid of the exertions of the three great
Powers, not only to furnish a certain quota of men
for the future operations of the campaign, but they
also agreed each to contribute a sum of money
equal to one year's revenue of their respective demi-
nions. It was thought Holland ought to do as much
as these, and indeed something. more, as before her
military exertions had not been so great. With the
wishes of the Allies the King of the li-therlands had
complied. The Noble Lord at considerable length
went on to prove how equitable the claim was which
he felt it his duty to prefer on the part of the King
of the Netherlands. The arrangement made weuid
be as beneficial to him as it was consonant to the
policy of this country. It went to give the greatest
power in Europe an interest in the eonservatrot of
the independence of Holland ; and however reedy
that Power might have proved itself to make great
sacrifices for the public good, be considered It no
misfortune fir the politics of Europe, that interest
should in this instance unite with duty. It was said
that Russia might again act, as from circumstances
she had totted Iterselt compelled to do in the last
war; and, in that case, her payments to Holland
would cease. It that period should arrive, our pay-
ments also would be suspended, as they would if by
any circumstance the Netherlands should he separated
from Holland. The state of things which had celled
upon us to take this charge upon ourselves, had given ,
us an opportunity of fairly, and without the appear-
ance of illiberality, proposing to Holland the cession
of her colonies to England. He had much satisfac.
tion in stating, that our conduct in this respect had
been justly appreciated on the part of Holland. She
had viewed it as a fair proposition made by a friendly
Power, and not considered it the demand of a nation
who, having obtained possession of her colonies in
time of war, refused to relinquish them on the return of
peace. The colonies obtaified by the arrangement
entered into with Holland, were of great iropermace
'to this country, not only on account of their mann-
tion with our eastern possession:, but on account of
the situation in which they placed us with respect to
South America, by which a constant supply of cot-
ton was secured, which would prove an important
advantage to the manufacturers of one °four staple
commodities. The King of the Netherlands bad
certainly of himself takeh measures for putting an
end to the Slave Trade ; but the situation of sonse
of the ceded colimies presented such facilities to
smuggling of slaves into them, that it could hardly
be hoped the evil would be effectually remedied but
by placing them under the cam of this country.—.
The arrangement made had not been decided upon
:tom an inordinate wish to extend our colonial pos-
sessions, but to promote the interesur of our mans-
factures, and to give greater effect.to that system of
policy which the country had so anxiously
,at belt.
With respect to the payments, he had to state, the
first to be made on account of the loen to RINI*
would be about the middle of the year 1816, and its
amount, including interest and Sinking Fund, would
be ii 136,000. This,, as he had before stated, would
only be continued so long as the Netherlands were
separated from France, and would cease it the
Orange family should unfortunately be displaced.—
Nothing would be required at present for the fortili•
Cations Of the Netherlands, but ip a Committee of
Supply, he should move the grant of £1,000,000 to
Sweden, as compensation to her for giros up Gua-
deloupe. He concluded by moving, 46 That atom-
vision be made to pay off the interest of the capital
sum of 25,000,0000 t forMs (Dutch currency) brow
part of a loan raised in Holland for the sere* of
Russia,"

Mr. WHITBREAD, in reference to what had
been said by the Noble Lord of the agreement made.
by the Sovereigns of the smaller States to AdVinCe
aid of the common cause, Ai sum equal to one year's
revenue of their_ respective dominions, desired to
know if any payments had in point of fact been
made ? The deht, owed by Rthsia to Holland, he
believed, had been contracted by the grandmother of
the Emperor Aleaander, .and he believed totr a nom-
of years no part of she princiril or interest 114
been paid.
•

Lord CASTLE'REACH Mire. some tssuei to
hive been made by the minor Stites, of exchequer
bills, or something of that sort, in consequence of the
arrangement to which they were parties. The Em-
peror of Russia had indeed made the. discharge of
the debt due to Holland i point of humour. but the
payments had been suspended while Holland was
j essentially French.
Mr. WHITBREAD considered the explanation
of the Noble Lord to be but a poor excuse for the
conduct of the Emperor of Russia. The country,
he thought, would be Pule disposed to pay a 10415
which had been contracted to pot a Russian arma-
ment in motion against the independence of Poland,
after supporting with their money the opposite side
of the question on a former occasion. He thought
it very desirable that we should know whether or not
we were called upon to pay the price of that iniquity
which we thought it our duty to oppose before ? Not.
withstanding the arrangement %%hie!) had been made,
lie considered the 'situation of the ceeditors of itussia
in Holland, to be but indifferent alter all.
Lord CASTLEREAGH explained.
Mr. TIERNEY admired nothing so much as the
ingenuity of the Noble Lord. It was only when he
got to the end of his speech, that . those who listened
to him could tell what was going on. He spoke
much of the amicable' arrangement which had taken
place, but spoke as if it was attended with no incon-
venience, as if it was to throw no burden on the peo-
ple, and after all it same out that 88,000,000 was to
be sent from the country.
Lord CASTLIMIAGH and the CHANCULOR of the
Excummaa controverted this statement, and shewed
the Right Hon. Gentleman that in no way could it
be proved that the charges. referred to would exceed
£5,000,000.
Mr. TIERNEY, admitting them to be but
£5,000,000, would venture to say that no body who
heard the speech of the Noble Lord could have
thought from his manner that• be was about to: pro.
pose a vote of al?5,00:4000. It was worthy of remark
that these conventions which had been concluded
some time, wets net broaght .forward till the middle
of June. He thought it must appear to the House,
that there had been a wish for. concealment on the
part of the Noble Lord. On private information he
had ventured three months ago to ask the Noble Lord
a question connected with the subj, ct of them. The
answer was ambiguous—it was, in substance., that the
Members of the Opposition were at their old tricks—
they were asking many impertinent questions, to
which he should nut then reply. but a time would
come when he would satisfactorily answer aIL It
should seem that this time was now arrived, but he
thought be had a right to ask, why it did not come
before ? He thought there was something very im-
proper, and (not to use the word in an offensive sense), ,
suspicious in such coucealment. Why these papersl
had not been brought forward before, he thought the
Noble Lord ought to explain before he left the House
that night. Those arrangements might he adv.inte.
geous to Europe, but why should this country have
to pay ? Because Sweden had consented' to accept a
compensation of 95,000,010 of francs for Goads.
loupe; his Britannic Majesty, as a friend and Ally,
was pleasea to take the payment of that sum upon
himself. But wherefore should he'do it, this is what
he wished to know ? Holland gained the whole of the,
Austrian Netherlands, and ought to consider the es-:i
change of four colonies, for that large portion of
European territory, a very good bargain. The Noble
Lord's speech, a few nights, since had excited much
astonishment in Holland, and he had received a letter
from an honest Dutchman, who said, “ I have endea-
voured to understand Lord Castlereagh's speech, and
have not been able to snake out one word of. it."--
(Idniskter.)—The finances of Holland were no; in so
dilapidated a state as to require such an interference
on our part. By her union with France. she bad got
rid of two-thirds of her debt.. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer might smile at this method of disposing
of a national debt; but if he went on much longer,
he would be compelled to -have recourse to similar
means.—(Hear.—.The Noble Lord had no right to
pledge the country to pay one million without the
knowledge of Parliament. From his speech it would
appear that the price of the colonies ceded to Eng.
land was only &ISOM% whilst it was, in 1 act,five
millions, which tar surpassed their value. What was
the use of our retaining the Cape of Good Hope,
when we were in. possession of the .Mauritius ? Hol.
land, at the time she gave, us up the sovereignty of
that colony, preserved all its uses to herself, and only
left us the expense of its possession. It was the
same with the three other colonies, all persons
residang In them were to have the right of trading
as before, with the Dutch dominions in Europe ;
so that they might, if they pleased, refuse to
convey their merchandise to this - country. It
made therefore no difference to us whether those
islands were in the bands of the Dutch or in ours.
The last thing that ought to have been done, ought
to have been bargaining for colonies in the West In-
dies. But he was convinced there remained a story
to be told of some seam arrangement which would
creep out in another twelvenseash. It had been said
that we had made a good bargain, when for five
millions, which the loss on the exchange would re-
duce to four, we had obtained 600,000 men from the'
Allies. But there was perhaps another colonial ar-
rangement of five millions behind. The'Noble Lord
said that the country would only have 8136,000 to
pay; but this expenditure was to go on until the two
millions should be liquidated, which would not take
a shorter period than 33 years. Could not Holland
.have endured such a debt, or if unable to pay the two
millions at once, she could not be emharr.4-sed with
the arrangement that had been made, and c.,idd have
easily met the yearly instalmeeti of 4136,00 u. This
hsvNwaeeecir)ydbs
hl
eaot r r aLhu,
would
that
odtnrngdtote,atismkl
epei e nil
power
hwcytoeeeshewedobtained
noweethdaoHsauatr:tturnohisevearei,e;
i,:rifiyt was
vtr ni
tohn lAciei s si
thety
yh.fie_vel;mdeialtrlai.ojitrnisy,
the
ee
iwisl:lnieddotfoßaknooewa,
bwowhicwhewcealucee'deidmotoP°thssee I.Dutch ?
When the Noble. Lord wanted live ni awn 01
Wiens to tortify
tHikoidrilgrloalun itrad,
herself, he h.
oughtiwasehoth ctor otherwise
skewtse h ils remain
nplt pinchli 01.
redtll alen
the dP it;
people.—
Lie lea
.b.....7ei
tkinhe:lll:shltodulotlpdMpliaayknef!ortitet°:MolusifinnctrytirPcsnosunoldernPotliyalinuheloiagurthsVillictjthi
eZp!104018.• When the finances were completely
**Wile le poll 011; of toe's pocket papers co.oceitle4

for title year, and ask dee million% required tafl th
peiwers of the Noble Lord's countenance to face it.-.
At this time of the Session the House was entirely at
his mercy. Gentlemen were newssarily engaged
-the country, and could not attend. After. such a
borions Session, he did not comNain of their absence,
but of the Noirle Lord, fur delaying matters of this
importance until he knew there could be no opportu.
pity for their being effectually discussed. •
Lord CASTLEREAGH stated that the reason
why the 'Treaties had not been brought down before
Wing that they were not then in a pritper shape ; 111,1
were, even now, imperfect. The Convention betweei,
the Emperor of Russia and the King of the Nether.
lands, which alone gave them validity, had not been
concluded until the 19th of May litst. fir main.
tamed, that to lordly the places in Belgium was not
a Dutch object merely, but one which interested al'.
Europe, and this country in particular, and that
Holland should not be allowed to exhaust her re.
sources by incurring erpences beyond her strengd,
If England alone had conquered the Netherland,.
then it would have been fair and just iu tier to ex
change them for the Dutch Colonies, a:.d pAy n.,
other price. But that was not the C.4S: ; 01,1 had n,
right to dispose of Belgium as she ple4sed, as it iv.:
as much in the power of the A Ili-d Sovereigns as
hers. With respect to the island of Binc he C(.111
not charge his memory with the manner in which w
had acquired it—(laissAter)—hut he had Tic iloulit vu
fide to its possession would be timid a good one.
.14r. WALLACE stated, that the R.ijala of Hanc
having murdered all the Dute!i, and declared 1141•
self independent of them, %%bids lie was not befut ,
had afterwards been obliged to fly. His brutlscr ha.i
then been made Sovereign, and had ceded his righ..
to us.

Mr. FORBES believed that the Rajah of Lau
had been forced to enter into an improvident conuar
tor tin by the Dutch Government. Tha; he ha.,
assisted us in taking Java, but that when after
auccess of that enterprise, oar Commander bad i
sisted on his fulfilling the contract entered into
' the Dutch Government, he had resisted it. Ti..
consequence was,lhat we had sent an army agaiv
him, and taken possession of his territories. Th •,
he was convinced, was the original cause of his losit
Banco. As to his being deposed afterwards, he cou
say nothing.
Mr. WHITBREAD remarked, that according ,
the last Speaker, the Rajah of Banca had assist,
the English in the conquest of Java*
Mr. WALLACE denied that fact, He had nee-
moved until after the English had taken possession
Java, whist he had seized that occasion to murder a.
the Dutch inhabitants in his dominions.

Mr. BANKES disapproved of our entering into
new expenditure of flue millions within a few days
raising the largest loan ever known in this country...
Such a waste of the public money was both imprc
per and unnecessary, •
Lord CASTLEItEAGH complained that tl:,
Hon. Member applied his large mind only to a con.
fined part of the question. He did ni t contemplatt
the result if we had left the Powers of Europe behind
as. There never wis so much done with so little er•
pense as during the last two years.
Sir J. NEWPOR l' contended that Holland should
go to the expense of fortifying the places in Belgium.
Afterhaving spent our money in strengtlieniil
barrier for the Dutch, we might find that we bac
only formed it fur cur enemy. The transaction re-
specting Banc* seemed to be followir.74 use the nii
serable juggle adopted by us against the N.cmt
Powers of India. Oor conduct lOW Al cis the Rajah c.
that island appeared to be disgraceful and anominable
Mr. BARING contended, that not the slightes.
foundation had yet been laid for the proposition c
the Noble Lord ; he conceived that it
IV as quite ore
gular for 'Parliament to be called upon to livens
sanction to a Treaty before it had been ratified by the
foreign powec with whom it was Made. There
seemed neither reason or justice in calliag upon Greg
Britain to make good this debt to Holland ; and
probability appeared to be, that while the Sovereips
qLonarbabyttiogreatstVorieenhnaarftnovonpiy:chesadof
N"orbel es
money of Great Britain, without reterence either to
the amount, or the benefits it was Wryly to produce.
thrown in :nil
It would doubtless be replied, that the value of the
Dutch colonies was great, but the truth was, that Oil
island of Guadaloupe alone was worth Infinitely
more than 411 the Dutch possessions in the West
Indies united.—(Leril Cast/tree:A ,Mani hie Igad.)-*
If the Noble Lord ventured to contradict this asser•
lion, it would only shew that he really knew nothing
about the subject. He doubted even whether it woul4
have been politic tai have accepted these colonies from
the Dutch. The Cape of Good Hope could be of
no use to us, the Mauritius and St. Helena being in
our hands • the only object which was desirable was o
keep the eape of Good Hope out of hostile hands, but
in the hands of the Dutch, our Allies, it would be See ;
so that the only question was, who should bear the
expense ? There was one reason, to be sure, why Ike
should buy it—which was, that we had a oVertior
there, in the receipt of £lO,OOO a year (hear); Lc
twice which sum the thrifty Dutchman would WO
supported the whole colony. lu the colonies also the
Dutch were to have a joint trade with ourselves ; !at'
though this benefit was to be limited to Dutch pro.
prieturs, it would not be very easy to prevent thoa
persons from exporting goods which mere not the
produce of their own estates. It was plain that we
tot
purchase of the colonies had been the. real, but tot
the business was transacted upon other principle::
which the Noble Lord had styled " grand view):
and that, in tact, the States at Vienna being di.satb•
tied with their shares of spoil, Great Britaiii nal
stepped in to supply all deticiencies with her golf;
As to the sum to be paid to Sweden, the Treaty an•"
the statement of the Noble Lord were at variance
The Treaty spoke of '24 millions of florins, wltith
would amount to about a million and one-Ulird ;
the Noble Lord said it wax but one million sterlinz..
Mt. B. BATHURST decided the propriety oi
giving a million to Sweden, whether it was Or "3
island'or a mere question tit money, AS other% I,e All
iniporiant branch of the coalition might have ti:ru
paralysed, or turned from a friend and Any into
an open or secret enemy. The incerest IlAti 13
Molt country would justify detenonig it even at our
own soie anomie, and Were was no other way of Jr.
ending it so chseap as by fortifying it; because it
FrafiCe reconquered it, we should have a 101 IX war
ato regain it. Ile therefore did not mink the 14144