Star.
London, England, 1801-11-17 00:00:00

WAYS AND WEANS.

The Committee of Supply was deferred to Wed-
neftiay next on the Motion of the CMANCILLOR of
the Excutosta. He then moved the Order of
the Da;- for the Houle to refolve itfclf into k Com-
mittee of Ways and Means for railing a Supply.
The Houle ha‘ ing refolved itfelf into a Commit.
tcc f the whole Houle accordingly,
'llle Cotaseettot of the Excusopta raid, the
Ili.ule having Jetermined, for reafons that appear-
ed to him moil wife, to continue, during a period
of three monshs, the Naval and Military- E:flablilh.
recut of the lad year, or rather to provide the rum'

by which the Naval and bfiliraryliflunent
night be defrayed for that period, k became
therefore aecefary to provide Ways and Means
for raifing Supplies to carry into area the Mien-
.iod of the Houfe.
The Supplies already voted, were
For the Army - £.5,332,000 and upwards.
For the Navy . 3.562.000
Ordnance 400Pco
Mileellancona Services - sorscax.

Z.6.49440:0
In addition to the EnglA, there
was for the Army of Ireland 40.0ne

•
Making in all upwards of Seven Millions.
The Ways and Means which had been already
voted by theHoufe, towards railing tilde fup-
plies,was the Land and Malt,which was 2,750,0001.
It was for laying the foundation for the further
Supply to meet the whole of the demand already
voted by the Houfe, that he was to lay before the
Committee a propofition, the general nature of
which he had already hated, but he thought he,
ought to remind the Committee of two drum-
fiances, which appeared neceffarily and unavoid-
ably to have diminifhed the Supplies of the year,
or, to (peak more correctly, to have enhanced the
expences' and aggravated the weight of the bur-
thens of the preceding year. One arifing from
the fcarcity of the feafon, and the amount of which
was confiderable, for it had been thought cape-
dient
to give ample encouragement to the Impor-
tation of Corn into this Country. No credit had
lab year been given for this Importation, for the
bounties on it, the amount of which would be con-
fiderable, but not fuch as fome perfons might
perhaps imagine. He thought that would not be
found to exceed the fum of Seven Hundred !
Thoufand Pounds. A large fum, undoubtedly,
and Irk, he believed, than might have been
imagined. Another very confiderable article of
Expenditure was here to be mentioned, and for
which the Houfe had been in the habit of making
large provifion, but the demands on which had
been greater on this than on any former year: he,
meant the Navy ; and this arofe from the circum-
fiances of the times, for not only all the articles
of War, of the wear and tear of a Navy, but in-
dependently of all Marine preparations, the ex-
pences mutt he confiderably greater than at any
former period; but when it was recollefted how
that marine had been made ufe of—how that fer-
vice had been performed, he thought the Com-
mittee would make
-up its mind to voting largely
for that head of Expenditure, provided it fhould
appear (as he trufted it would) that the augmen-
tation had in no inhance arifen from want of vi-
gilance or inattention. What he had to propofe
to-day-Owes not for the propofe of fupplying imme-
diate Ways and Means, but to remove an impedi-
ment in obtaining Ways and Means, in the way
which appeared to him the moll defirable. There
were, as he hated on Friday lab, three modes of
fupplving the wants of Government:—Either to
'foe 'freflt Exchequer Bill—or funding thole -
ready outliandin—or that of a Loan; on which
points he had to fubmit, (hortly, fome obfervations
to the Committee. The objeCtion to the latter op-
peered to him to be this : two Loans within the
year had always been held to operate very inju-
rioufly on the public Funds. The payment of
the inftalments operated unfavourably. Happily,
he raid, we could not now anticipate what will be
the amount of our Expences ; this he Paid, becaufe
the Definitive Treaty may enable us to diminifh
our expences by laming the demands of the Pub-
lic Service. This plan which he had to propofe,
would enable us to limit our iffues of Exchequer
Bills according to the demands of the public Ser-1
vice; whereas by another mode, that of ilfuing Ex
chequer Bills now, the whole fum voted mutt be
railed, and it might afterwards turn out that much
more was railed than was neceffary, by which he
fhould have incurred an unavailing expence. Be-
tide, whenever a Loan was effeaed, it caufed more
Stock to be fold than was neceffary. Thefe con-
tiderations, he hoped, would jullify the preference
he had given to the mode which he was now about
to fubmit to the Committee ; the objca of which
chiefly was, to take out of the Market a large pro-
portion of Exchequer Bills to anfwer the demands
at a lets rate of interefi. The Bills were not to be
chargeable on a particular branch of the revenue.
The amount of the Bills which he propofed to be
funded was B.soomool. Of which 2,300,e001. and
odd were held by the Bank, and 6,000,0001. were
in the hands of individuals. It had been propofed
to make an arrangement conformably to the vales
of individuals by whom the larger turns are held,
for the Bank could wait until they could demand
payment, or take Stock on the terms and condi-
dons held out to others. The }lank, according to
a fyftens which they had followed for a number of
years, required that they should be paid, not in
Stock, but in fpecie. We were therefore to fund
6,000p00L A Committee appointed by the holders
of Exchequer Bills he had occafion to meet. The
pro_ polition was this, that they thould agree on be-
half of themfelves, and thole whom they reprefent-
ed,"to fund 6,500p001. and that each perfon who
accepted Rock Otould advance yol. towards con-
Rituting a fund to fatisfy the Bank. However,
that was not agreed on. On Wednefday loft he
had a fecond communication, and then the terms
agreed on were thefe. He Mould, however, pre•
mile, that it is not confidered as an indifpenfable
obligation that they (hould advance 501. but that
they thould be at liberty to do it; and the terms
on which it was made, (hould be fimilar to thofe '
of the Exchequer Bills of individuals. The terms
which he had entered into, fubjed to the approba-
tion of the Committee, were theft; :
25 of Coolish - a 64 4.17 t 10
as Reduced - a 67/ :6 t 6 lot
13 New Fives . a t 9 24 15 0
5o tour ptv Cents a to: 42 7 6
is. psi. Ann. a Apt 1 24
cosC. ls 7
and the Proprietors to hsvc tbc opportunity of falifcribing 301.
additional for every tut 11.11, to be appiird for raiment" the
funs of about 2,400ac0t. 2W. bold by the Beak of EantLind.
It would be recolleded by all thofe who had had
an °ppm tunfty of obferving the hate of Stock, and
the pike a Exchequer Bills, that fame time pre-
vious to arrangements being made as to Exchc-
quo' Bills, and perfons knowing of plans being in
ag;tation, that they iron a confiderable premium

He wee now referring 'to a p2tiod befOtles this—
twelve fkillings. he thoeght, was the premium (he
took it at the loweft), and they were taken readily
at that premium: but he contended that that pre-
mium ought to be deduded out df the amount of
the bonus, and therefore the bargain muft be con-
fidered, as far as that premium went, as advanta-
geous to the public, and he was entitled to take
credit for that, be it more or lefs. This led him
to another confideration, a little, perhaps, out of
place, which was, that the alteration in the price
of Exchequer Bills !ince the contrail was made,
furnifhed another proof of the benefit of the con
trait: and here he obiervcd, that it was the with
of Government, and he believed it was the with of
Parliament, not only in its liberality, but in its
wifdom, to fee that thole bargains were beneficial
to the individuals, while they were prudent on the
part of the public. He hoped they would appear
to the Committee prudent, on the part of the pub-
lic at leaft. He was fully aware that there was in
the minds of many well-informed men, a prejudice
in favour of invefting in the 3 per cents, and that
funding Exchequer or Navy Bills should be in that
Stock ; but he wifhed Gentlemen to confider very
I fully the whole extent of their opinion on that fub-
jea, and the probable effect of carrying it into ex-
ecution. He was aware that funding in the 3
per cents was plaufible, for that the amount of in-
tereft was lefs, and he was ready to admit, he
could have engaged, on the part of the public. at
a lower rate of intereft, by funding in that Rock.
He had reafon to believe an arrangement could
have been made by which a difference of 6s. gd.
could have been made in the intereft to be paid
in the Bills funded. The funding he propofed,
was in the whole amount of intereft on the diffe-
tent films. 4 16x. 9d. •
s. d, !Lanett.
£.25 Confots a 17 x to( £.o r s o
as Reduced a a 6 16 zoi ois o
so Fours a az 7 6 s o o
ss New Fives a 24 15 0 I I 0
Is. 9d, Long Mo. 114 4 0 1 9

,C. 102 IS 7

4 s 6 9

He laid he had reafon to know' that he could
have effeeted a bargain at 4 los. that confequent•
ly 6s. 9d. was the excels of the intereff to be paid
in confequence of the bargain, which, on the part
of the Public, he had concluded, comparing it
with that which might have been concluded in the
3 per Cents. But now he had to hate the confi-
deration which operated upon his mind in the
choke he made. Firft, he confidered, and the
Committee would he &ewe, there is no Stock fo
marketable as the 3 per Cents. and whenever a
large Loan waste be negotiated for, there was no
Stock fo immediately depreffed as that of the 3 per
Cents; for much of it always was and would be in
the hands of individuals who were more confidera-
ble in the Stock market than others, and they
would have compelled him to have negotiated it
at a confiderable difadvantage. By funding in
the Stock where the Capital already yelled was the
el fs, the whole amount would be to,6:5,000l.
whereas if invelted in the 3 per Cents. where the
Capital already invefied was larger, it would
amount to t 2,750,0001. of the whole of Capital
Stock created, making a difference of Stock of
above 2,100,4=1. By funding, according to the
prefent plan, the interell together with the Sinking
Fund amounted to 61. as. citd. and in the other
with the Sinking Fund it would be 61. making a
difference of is. 91d. Oppofite to this fum
91d. he had to Rate the inconvenience which
would have arifen in the arrangements of a future
Loan, and that of creating upwards of 2,00ch0001.
more of Stock.—lf Gentlemen conlidered thole
things and compared them, he was perfuaded they
would fee that he had reafon for the preference he
had given to the Stock in which he had made the
bargain now before the Committee.—He was un-
willing to fay much upon this fubje& of preference
to a particular Rock, but he could fatisfy the Com-
mittee that hg was aeluated by reafons which acre
not lightly taken np. The 4 per Cents. appeared
to him the Rock bell adapted for the largeli por-
tion of funding, for leveret reafons, but chiefly
'stealth it was the haft marketable.—The five per
Cents. created in 1797, had this advantage, that
they could be paid off at par, or, as by A& of Par
liament, at the option of the holder, by taking the
three per Cents. at 751. with the addition of a
third. This always created an unwillingnefs on
the part of certain individuals to enter into large
negotiations in this flock ; and all thefe tranfac.
tions mull, in a great mealure, depend on the dif-
polition of the Bill-holders.2Taking all circum•
fiances into confideration,and weighing the fubje&
as attentively 4s he was able, lie came to a conclu-
fion, on the general died of which he had Rated
what occurred to him, particularly as to what the
effed would have been if this fum had been funded
in the 4 per cents. Hs was unwilling to trouble the
Cemmittee, by going through again all the calcu
lations, and the ltatement of the propolitions : he
could only fay, he was perfealy ready to give an
fwers to any quellions that might be put to him, his
main objed being to explain it fatisfaitorily, and
his with being that of (hewing clearly that it was a
contra& that was perfeiftly fur between the parties.
The refources of this Country did not require any
contra& that was otherwife; nor did he think that
true policy would diEtate any contra& between ,
Government and individuals, that was not bene-
ficial to filch individuals. All that was necefary
on the part of the Public was, that the contraift
fhould be prudent. The only queßion then was
this, Whether under all the circumfiances, he had,
or had not, mule a fit, (nimble and fair bargain for
the Public 2 If he had done In, the Corirmittee
would confirm it ; if the Committee did not, it
would be fubjeft matter of great reproach to him,
which he hoped would not fall to his lot. He had
already felt the titisfaftion of its being approved
by tbofe whole judgments were allowed to have
qualified them to form opinions upon it, who had
been pleafed to fay, they thought it was, on the
part of the Public, not an improvident bargain.—
He Mould, therefore, conclude with a motion,
which he fhould read through, it being long, and
being in the form that was ufual in there cafes.—
He then moved the refolution to confirm the terms
oldie bargain, &c.

' Mr. DENT raid he did not rife toolVilt,fbecnctbE;tetv
don before the Committee, but merely to rna,„l
fome obfervations on the fubjeft, as he could r),
agree altogether in the itaternent made by theki
ql luoenr.. Gentleman, I e6ms And, thee ers of i Chancellor,ltere
Chancellor of the Exchequer in the bargain un
der conlideration, however fmall it might appra-
at the fiat view of it, would amount up t•:' tj.
whole of the fum to be funded, to the aran!al furl'
of 28,6161. with which the public were to he b,.,
thened. He thought if the bargain had been read.
by competition. there would have been a bitter
chance for obtaining an advantageous one.
knew the Hon. Gentleman's predeceffor was fun
of competition. Befides the is. gd. in the Lop,.
Annuities the holders of every tcol. of the .
chequer Bills to be funded, would get a bonze,;,;
21. iss. 6d. and if they thought proper to take al
vantage of the dire° int of gs. 6d, to be
for prompt payment, it would he found that then:
was a clear gain of 41. ga. per Cent. erclu::ve z:
he before Rated of the is. gd. Long Annuity,_
He thought a mare advantageous method for t;.i-
public might have been adopted. He eocld rt.;
agree with the Right Hon. Gentleman in fik
menu on the fubjea of the 3 per Cent. Confuls.—
His opinion was, that it would have been better
to have made a loan for the purpole of paying
off the Exchequer Bills propofed to be funded,
than to make a bargain fo dig...advantageous to the
public. The Right Hon. Gentleman had ohicc.
ted to making Two Loans within the year, a, the
payments of the inlialments on the one would
terfere with the other, and that it would have the
effeft of lowering the funds. The difficulty, he
thou_ght, might he very eatily obviated. Surely
the Right Hon. Gentleman could have formed an
idea of the fum likely to be wanted ; and might
have made a Loan for the whole at once. He was
perfuaded the Houle would readily have concur.
red in granting fuch aid as the public fervice re.
quired. For his part, fuch meafttres as were
likely to be advantageous to the Country, Paollid
ever have his fupport. He wifhed it at the fame
time to be underttood, that he did not recommuol
a Loan as the belt meafure that cool.' be purfued;
he only recommended it, provided an advanta.
geous bargain for the public could not be made,
after a fair competition, which he thought did
not take place in the cafe Wore the Committee.
next adverted to the condua of the Bank of
England. He thought it a little extraordinary,
that they fhould refute to fund the 2,.t00,0001. of
Exchequer Bills in their poffeffion ; if it was cor..
trary to their Charter to hold fo large a flare tf
flock, there was even a remedy for that. He re.
collefled when the Loyalty Loan was contWted
for, the Bank of England had an Aft of Parl:a.
ment to enable them to fubfcribe t,000,0001. to.
wards that. Loan. One ftrong objeftion, in his
mind, was the increafing the S per Cents. which
Government flood pledged to pay off in two years
after the war, at the rate of I tot. for every lock '
He thought the Holders of that Stock could not
be pleafed with the increafe made tb it by the pre.
fent bargain. He contended that the Long An.
nuities were given above the market price ; and
obferved, that by the agreement of the individual;
holding Exchequer Bills, to pay 5o per cent, for
the purpofe of difchargiag chore held by the Bank,
if each of the holders conformed to that part of the
bargain the fum raifed would be 9,50ch000i. which
will leave a furplus of upwards of 1,000,c,0c1.
He had riot a doubt but the Right Hon. Gentleman,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had made the
belt bargain he could, according to the mode be
had purtued, as he was ready to concur in the ge-
neral fentiment, what every body fads mull be
true, and the integrity of the Right Honourable
Gentleman is generally admitted." Mr. Dent then
obferved that he thought this country
,would be
expofed to heavier expences in the approaching
than in any former peace. .France had become a
Military Republic ; but the war being over, would
put an end to promotion in their immence armies,
and great diffatisfaetion would be the natural rep
fult, which would make it necelary for this coon-
' try to be prepared againA any event that might
occur. _

The Ciiiiiicattoit of the Exca Foyle rofe in re-
ply to Mr. Dent. The Honourable Member had
anfinuated that fonsething like a partiality had laltit
(hewn to the Bank of England in the bargain con
eluded on this occafion, but to this he could an
Ewer, that the infinuatipn was unfounded, and th
part of the bargain which had been concluded wi
the Bank was precifely an a fimilar principle wit
all former bargains under fimilar circumflances.
The difference between the Bank and the othe
holders of Exchequer Bills, was precifely this:
the former accepted payment in fpecie without an
advantage, the latter payment in funds with a bon
But the Rank, in his opinion, had aited difcreedy
their difcretion over their own
property was tan
quellionable ; and it was not fair to attach bla
to them in this infkance, when it was itriftly con
formable to what had been always done befor
and an eitablithed euilom. He differed from
principle laid down by the Honourable Member
that to raife the whole fum wanted by loan, WA
preferable to Exchequer Bills, and be objcited t
railing even the fmall fum of two millions by 1
in preference to Exchequer Bills, becaufe happil
the present fituation of the country was fuch
taught him to hops the whole fum for which
felt it his duty to provide, would not become
cam y in expenditure, and therefore byiluinj
Exchequer Bills only to the amount which exigetr.
cies called for, would obviate the neceffity of is
curring a debt of interell upon a much greater 1"I
than would be requifite. The Honourable Mem
ber had laid, his predecefor in office was a friend
to competition, and expected a with that mon
room for competition had been given in this cafa
As it would have afforded opportunity of a betua
bargain for the public. His predeceitor, he knew
was a friend to every meafure which a great an
liberal mind like his ought to embrace. But th
Honourable Member, before he attached blame
him for the want of competitioa in this cafe, ough
to have confidered that it Arofe from the nature
4 bufinefs which Afforded no room for competitio
and not from any thing blameable in his condo

A
el

't'Pf ofe the rrc.
erety to link,
as he could rot
trie by tbekight
of the Ent',
ft given by ti e
le bargain tin.
might appear
runt upce. the
the annaal fort 11
were to be but.
had been made
been a better
;eons one. Ile
eel Tor was food
d. in the Long
4. of the E:
get a bontisc;
Ater to take ad
I. to be
bond that the:.
tt. crofts:ire a:
ing Annuity._
method for Le
He could cZ
ban in his pate.
ent.
ire been better
pofe of paying
to be funded,
itageou s to the
man had Ace-
the year, as the
one would
would have the
e difficulty, he
riated. Surely
lace formed as
:d ; and might
t ouce. He was
y have concur.
:We fervim re.
dam as were
:enmity, !!mold
I it at the (ante
not recommend
Ad be purfued ;
:d an &drain,.
l not be made,
e thought did
:he Committee.
of the Bark of
extraordinary,
2,400,0001. of
if it was co:.
trge a flare cf
that. He re.
was contra
At of Parl:a.
1,000,0001. to.
kjeftion, in Ins
r Cents. which
iff in two years
for every rod.
:ock could not
S it by the pre.
the Long An.
ket prix ; and
the individual;
o per cent, for
Id by the Bank,
that part of the
00,0001. which
1,000,c0c1.
m. Gentleman,
had made the
o the mode he
acur in the go.
• lass mull be
it Honourable
Mr. Dent then
atry would be
: approaching
had become a
ig over, would
sienfe armies,
he natural ree
for this coun-
st that might

Inlt role in re-
!' Member had
ality had bgen
a bargain con
he could an
aded, and
oncludcd wi
Principle wi
:ercumilan