Star.
London, England, 1831-03-26 00:00:00

CHURCH LIVINGS.

ivileges of the House of Lords had :,een HOP. G.ntle-
maa would not aggravate that breach of order by introducing the sub-
ject into that house.
3lr. RUT HVEN said he had not mention rd the House of Lords;
but he had read that a noble lord had commented one meeting held in
the county of Down, for the purpose of petitioning for Reform, alleging
that it wax not respectable. The meeting was called by the High
Sheriff, and was most respectably attended. The late menthe,. for ;lic
county was present, who sea as large a fortune as either of the pre-
sent member*.The pct than unanimously agreed to, and was roost
respectably signed.
CASTLEREAGH said, he had before teased, that the peti-
tion was respectably signed, and that he was sorry he could not agree in
its prayer. He was convinced that when the plan of Reform was better
known there would be a great re-action.
Mr. KEITH Di )UOLAS inquired whether the hon. gentleman
opposite (Mr. Buxton) meant to make any motion respecting slavery in
the "Nest Inpics. and what was the nature o. it.
Mr. BUXTON said, his object was to intrtxluce a resolution wine.'
would result in die abolition of slavery. Ile hoped the Auhject would
he taken up by his Majesty's Ministers. He shocld bring forward his
motion on Tuesday next.
Mr. COURT ENAY asked Lord Althorp when he should bring for.
ward the Immo:sell alteration in the wine duties.
Lora A Li' HORP mid, not till after ate holidays—he could no;
vet name the day.
Sir It. PEEL said he wished to ask the noble lord opposite a ques-
don respecting the bill of reform. Ile would assume that it was just
to itisfranchke as many places as were :sropotted in the Bill, but allcousi
agree that it should he done acemding to jaatie,e, and tiro. larger places
should not be disfranchised and smaller allowed to continue to se:, i
their representatives. This would be the effect. neording to the pro-
posed pirm, because in some instances the po;,ulation of the parish was
take? ; in others, that of the borough. The parish of Tamworth con-
talned seven thousand inhAitants, the boronAh but Mice thonsaud tive
hundred, which was the return metre, in consep, nee u? whirl, it was to
lose on.: of its representatives, but it' chaos:sled f.by the popu-
lation of the palish, s was the case in some phrt, x. ;t wovld returo
both. lo other cases the parish and the '?orotiAit were rgn.rl, and it,
:schen( the return made was that of th - parisO, ,t,‘ 1 ao, of toe borooah.
it was quite clear that they should proes:',l unis'oemly on the popula-
tion' either of the parish, or of the borotnlii,;,, ac-ch.
Lord ALTHORP sail, there cull he oo objection to receive every
information, anti if the population teturn- were ioaccurate, tire mieta!‘e
should be corrected.

Mr. F. LEWIS could not understand by what rule Radium was to
be deprived of its representatives, as it boil contributory hmouglis Odell
raised it numb above four thousand inhabitants. IL could not under-
stand how the rule had been applied to the Welsh boroughs. He
would suggest the propriety of laying all the &tailed answers sent to
the Home o:lice on the till tject befom the Nowa:.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, the principle applied to Englntl
was not applicable to AVales. 'rita whole of the information re-
ceived should he laid before the house; earl if the rule admitted Tam.
worth, or any other borough, to retain its whole representation there
could be'no objection.
Lord kNLO/11HE said, the borough of Truro, including its Fe.
baths, included 7.01111 inhabitants, and should therefore be allowed
to return two mentints, though borough was uutler four titonsat,d,
and us that was the number returned according to the proem phut, it
would lose one.

The Noble Lord also presented a petition on the subject of tithes,
alluding to a transfa of church livings by a right rev. prelate (the
iltsbnp of Ely), expressed his surprise on finding tile Lord Chancellor
assented to the transaction.

Mr. G.IIIOORE said, if every householder in Dublin who inhabited
a house ot 101. :,.year was entitled to a vote, is would actunlly amount
to universal suffrage.
31r. STANLEY said, there :was a paper now printing which
would give the honourable gentleman full information rewcting the
proportion of 101. householders in Dublin. Ii: belisr,tl tha number
about 17,000. _ _

The LORD CHANCELLOR explained the share he bad in the
:ransaction. He received two letters from the Right Reverend
Prelate, requesting him to waive the tight of the Great Seal to pre-
,eination of livings which the Right Rev. Prcla.c was desirous of
giving to his san. The matter concerned had Eldon, and the Right
lea. Prelate having been referred to Lord Eldon, that ni bk. and
!owned Lord gave his consent, and the appointment was made out.
He (the Lord Chancellor) did cot know rodent state of health the Right
Rev. Prelate might be in, but he thought that Rev. Prelate ought to
he in good health, and in sane mind; for he was giving away promo.
don uhich should not be given without he was in tinn possession of hie
faculties. The nt.ble and learned Lord was suspicious there were per.-
sans in the neighbourhood of the Right Rev. Prelate who disposed of
his patronage. lie should da his duty to his king, and if there was
any abuse of patronage, he would never lend himself to it.
Lord PLU NKET presented a petition from a Town in Ireland for
repeal of the Union. The noble and learned Lord did not concur in
the object of the petition.
Earl GREY presented several petitions for Reform in Parliament.
The Marquis of BUTE presented a petition to that effect from Oh-
.;lorganshire.
Their Lordships then adjourned at Half-past Six o'Clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Sir GEORGE CLERK presented a petition from the Bankers,
Merchants, and principal inhabitants of Edinburgh, against the plan
of Reform proposed by Ministers. The petition was signed by up-
wards of 600 persons.
Mr. HUM E said, that the signatures to the petition were re-
,tectable no one could doubt; but it was agreed on at a private
meting, and the Reporters for the public press were turned out of
• . t.som.—(A laugh.) The individuals who signed it were respect-
t. they were attached to that party who had so long misruled
,ed.—( Hear. hear.)
PRINIi LE said, there was not time to call a meeting for dig-
ta- it would have been done; but the petition was signed by
t.rsons of all parties. There never was a petition presented to the
;Leer entitled to more weight.
S:r GEORGE STAUNTON said, he was reported to hrtve said on
presenting a petition In favour of reform, that he gave his unqualified
approbation to the plan of reform proposed by ministers. ‘Vhat he
really said was, that ite entirely concurred in the prayer of the petition ;
but there were parts of the hill of which he could not approve.
Sir GEORGE CLERK presented tat' petitions fr.•ut the county of
Peebles, sgait.st that part of the Reform Bill which proposes to unite
their county with another.

Mr. HODGES presented twanty.mine petitions from places in Kent,
infavour of Me plan of reform proposed by ministers ; and a petition
from Sandwich, against the disfranchisement of non.iesident voters.

Mr. MARRI6Ia and Mr. G. PRICE buppumd the prayer of
'he petition.

Mr. OTONNELL thought it could fie an advantage to include ell
the Inhabitants of o parish In Irelcuitl, la which a borougo was situittetl,,
in the right of voting.
Sir CHARLES FORBES would advise the noble lord to with.
draw his bill altogether, :and begin ai;ain.—(A kugh.) If the
bill slwuld get into a committee. whicb he hoped it never would,
what prospect would the noble lord Lava of gating out of it with.
out having his bill torn limb from limb—the flesh torn from the
bone.—(A laugh.)
Si: R. INGLIS suggested that i;ta bill s;iluld be postponed till the
new population lemma should be male out.
Lord J. RUSSELL said Oa populatico retnrns would not be made
out till July ; and with respect in the advice to withdraw the bill, he
had too much respect toe the dieisiun a.' Cie house, which had ordered
the hill to be read a second time, nor to use his hest endeavours to carry
it to /.1 triumphal regillt.—irear, hear.)
Sir GEORGE CLEK asked would there be a new return made
for Scotland ?

.lr.
110DGF.S presented a petition from the county of Kent in fa-
vour of the plan of ref-rm proposed by ministers. The meeting at
which it was agreed to was one of the most respectable and numerous he
nad ever witoe.stxl, and they were all unanimous in favour of the plan
proi used by mini-xis.
Mr. JONES asked the ruble lord why the borough of Aristow, on
the estr.:e of Lord Caralor, who riipported ministers, was to be retained,
while large borot;lia were to be disfranchised ?
Lurd J. RUSSELL said, it the hen. gent thought there was any
.potion of *rising Lord Cewilor. he was completely mistaken. He be.
:level the electors of the borough who read in Lord Cawdor's interest
were nun•residerts, and would be cut off by the bill. It was 1.10: the
principle of the 6:11 ro disfranchise cootributary boroughs, but the strict-
est impartial 'ty t-sas observed.
Mr. G. DAWSON said h was notorious that Lord Durham was
irstrumental hi drawing up the reform bill for England ; and Durham
was to get six new members. The tot.•n of Gateshead. one of these,
was within tax miles of Lord Durham's residence, and there were six-
teen parishes in Lancashire that bad a greater population, to which an
representation wes given. Sunderland and South Shields, to each of
which represematives were given, had also u less population than many
parishes in Lancashire. There wes one parish in Lancashire that had
3 greater population than Gateshead, South t•hields. and Sunderland,
aild yet it was left without representation. It would be said that the
constitution was destroyed for the purpose of creating beer boroughs
tat Lord Ditrhain.—(blear.) He thought, niter the part the press had
taken in UM, question, every gentleman should take every means of
disabusing the people of England.
Sir G. "" kltlf ENDER said he must do the justice to ministers to
saw, that so tar from Lord Cawdor's inkiest being considered by the
his interest in Sett:laud would be destroyed by it, of which dial
Noble Lord made no complaint.
Mr. C. WOOD thought the discussion was improperly introduced.
the right hon. gentieniau said there were many parishes in Lancashire
core populous than Gateshead; that was perfectly true, but these
places were towns. and it was the intention to give representations to
towns—not to pftrishes.
Sir JOliN SEIIIIIOHT thought the more the subject was cis.
sussed the betray; but if they were to go into such discussions on the
presentations of petitions, they might as well send back the petitions to
their constituents, Lad tell theca at once there was no time for their
presentation.

Sir M. RIDLEY said there were circumstances in the case of
derland and south Shields, which amply justified giving them repre-
Nentatives. They had a great trade and chipping interest.
Lord STANLEY raid, some of the parishes in Lancashire had as
many as 30 towlis they had all expressed themselves grateful for the
present bill.

Ti:c LOUD ADVOCATE did not think there was any ground for
any preliminary proceeding of that sort previous to applying toe 101 to
Scotland. There was a return made alio'', a unoala ago of all the
biwd Isou%es in Scotland rated at 101. and upwarls, which he kid in
his hand.

The Marquis of GRAHAM said the whole representation of Scotland
would be thrown into the hands of manufacturing towns, and the agri- I
cultural interest would be desuoyed.
The LORD ADVOCATE said he meant to propose that the NeCOllll
reading of the bill should.
.take place:ou the 22d ot. April, when the sub-
ject would he folly discussed.
Colonel LINDSEY said it was unjust towards Scotland to delay the
discussion of the bill. Scotland was in a state of alartn about the bill,
he should oppose the bill in all its stager.
Mr. HUME said that Scotland was in favour of the bill from one
end to the other. (Hear, hear.) lie had himself meserted petitions
from a majority ot the burghs in its favour; and had two county peti-
tions to present already. There were knots in several counties whose
interests were affected, and who thought themselves all Scotland., though
they were btu a miserable minority. ([lear.)
A /11EusEn raid the hon. nteinber for Middlesex had travelled)
Scotland in fiivoor of reform, and that was the cause of the petitions in
favour of Reform film)) the: country.—(hear.)
.Mr. HUME said, according Ma t:oii. gentleman, Scotland bowed: to
his nod. He hard stipported the plan of lkforto proposed by Minist,ris,
and had spoke» anti allow in its favour. The greatest misfortune to
the Anti-Ref:inners was, that the. Reformers bad trot CifFered nlaiut
the :plan but were all united in its support. (Mar.) They were
mottilied to see the member for Preston, and the member for Water-
find, and the member for Middlesex, all sopportiug the 'Ministers'
plan. (Great cheering.) Ile acs willing to try the plan, and it' it
proved sufficient he would not ark ter more : but ii it teem fout.d d..
Relent he certainly should leg:. ire taltlitiona security. (Hear.)
111 r. FERGUSON said, Scotland very ;;enmity cpproyed of the
plan of 'ldiom proposed by Ministers. He Hough. nine-tenths of tl:e
people Nowt in 16urunft ot the principle of ,lic Dill. (Hear.)
Sir GEORGE MURRAY said a bilge proportion or' the people r f
Scotland thought the: sonic reform was necessary; but he utterly de-
nied that the people of tentland gcnendly were in favour of the plats or
reform proposed by ministers. (ticar, hear.) Giving the right at voting
to tenants would cause landlords to give bloc lases, and to parcel out
their estates in WI. forms, end in that tray lie the cause of many evils.
The bill also tended to make die clertty of Staab:too politicians, 'which
would greatly injure their use:Lilo:rt. Tiie gen try of Setillrisd saw
the bill in that light, and did not approve of it. He was :;lad to
see that the freeholders of 31it'allesex had sent to Scotland for a ye.

presentative to speak their sentic,ents in the tongue of the North ;
and he was glad that Mr. Willis bad round so able u successor as the
hon. gentleman. (A laugo )
The LORD ADVOCATE, in answer to the objection which hied
'been urged regarding the clergy by the honourable maieber oppo-ke,
said, that the proposers of die bill nierait to leave the clergy in the '
situation tint they ere row in. B. t it any clergyman i.ossessetl a
right by a freehold of hie own, that the bitl was not intended to take
that right away. it must lie left to theit discretion that they did not
interfere with eolities.asithe hill did not cone:soh: to anytitini; like a pro-
hibition. His lordship said, that as the welted le iocities of both bilk
were the same; that much time and tturtecessare discussion would be
saved by defetrivg the second reading till tlie 16th of Aptil. Bard it
not been upoo that consideration, tic was prepared to have gone into :lie
discussion on that night.
Sir G. MURRAY, and an honourable member whose name we could
not learn, rosc to exhaustion.
Sir A:AGNEW said lie would support the measure.
Sir AL SHAW STEWART said, that he could contradict the
statement that bad been made, that the wart of Seodaed wes not uni-
versally /or the meesure—he knew the contrary to be die fact. He
would support the bill.
Capt. WEMYSS approved of a timall portion of the English biA,
but he did not pretend to understand it in detail. With respect to the
bill for Scotland, be thought the right to vote should he vested in pro-
petty alone, for it appeared to him clearly, that if votes were to he ex-
tended to tenants, that landlords could always influence those votes, and
that it would commence a political airfare between the agricultural end
manufacturing cheeses. lie acknowledged that there was a general feel-
ing in favour of reform in Scotland, but it existed chiefly among that
class who were likely never to possess freeholds.
An Honourable AlErtiaxa confirmed the statement that had been
made by the hon. member fur Aliddlesex, as to the general feeling that
prevailed in Scotland in favour of the bill, and said that they all antici-
pated with gratification the consummation of the bill.
The conversation dropped.
Mr. BURGE begged to put a question unconnected with the subject
under discussion. He wished to ask the hon. member for Weymouth ,
(Mr. Buxton) if he intended to persevere in his intention to bring on
the motion, which he had given notice of, respecting negro slavery. He
also expressed his regret that the returns moved for, connected with the
subject, had not been laid on the table.
Mr. (MERLES asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, if it was
his intention to propose a repeal of the duty on candles and oda before
the recess.

Lord J. RUSSELL said, in the committee on the bill he should
Cully explain the grounds on which the plans to return representatives
sere determined, with a view to give efficient representation.
Mr. G. DAIVSfiN said, that as the committee on the bill was post-
poned to the 14th of Apia, its opponents had no other opportunity of
delivering their sentiments than on petitions.
Mr. HUNT said the people of England. and the people of Lance-
'hire in particular, must be much obliged to the Right Hon. Gentle-
fan for taking than under his protection. Instead of sending the
petitions back to their constituents, he hoped the Government would
Send back the representatives.—(A laugh.)
Mr. RUTHVEN said, he must call the attention of the house to
'umcehing imputed to a noble lord, in a publication of this day, which
he hoped he had never said, as it had no truth to rest on.—(Cries of
Name.) A publication of this day stated that the Marquis of Lon-1
londerry had stated, in another place, that a society had been formed In
Downpatrick--
Tae SPEAKER called the Hon. Gentleman to order. The house
was very indulgent to the breath of their own privileges; but if the

.--
Lord ALTHORP said he had no objection to postpone the repeal of
the duty on candles until after the recess, but that he was resolved to
repeal the duty on coals forthwith.
Mr. BUXTON, in reply to the previous question, said that he was

beicenioulddonmeakoenadiontiothe:olls,oooionlm.
dee nit Ire d to ling forward his motion relating to negro slavery on
.forHane hooilltfittoforknothew from the
Lord whether, if he madea motion on the subject, it would receive the
support of Ministers.
Tuesday next.
Lord HO WICK rose to state, that if his recollection had not deceived
him, the rearms alluded to had already been laid before the house • but
to propose it to the house, had not his Meaty Interposed to prevent it ;
at all events, that no blame was to be attached to Government, for the
returns were ot voluminous, that it had not yet been possible to get Lord ALTHORP said it had been the intention of the Government
that being the case he thought it unnecessaryj to make any grant for rhe
them out of the hands of the printer.
Mr. HORACE TWISS made some observations of a dissentient Purpose.
nature.
Mt. HUN 1' mid his Majesty had done himself great honour, and
Lord HOW ICK and hlr. ThVISS explained, and the conversation raised himself in the estimation of the rout-try : and he could liardi
help thinking that these who were now so anxious to make y
dropped.die
The louse resolved itself into a Committee on the Navy Estimates. grart, wished cr deprive hi, Majesty and the Queen of the po.
75,1891. were voted for seamen's wages. pularity they rived Flom refusieg it. If the money was to be paid
31,5001. for officeis pay anO co»dneeticies. by the artstocracy and tint house. 1:e should not object to it ; but
49,00411. Ow salaries in the Navy Pay-office, and contingencies. when he knew ii was to come out of the pockets of the people, lie must
20,1621. ihr the ecieetific departmeni, &C. oppose if
Sir. WARBURTON then urged, in order to determine the
of londif-
rence eitude of certain commercial localities, that ships should Sir. LITTLETON eel, he heard from the Chancellor of the Ev-
fee! lune with surprise and regret. that govetnment bad consented to hi,
be sent out furnished with chronometers, and that they should adopt Majesty's refusal of the grant. He really thought that the house ought
the method of triangulating.
Sir JAM ES GRAILI3I ated that vessels row employed to 'peke tin •gt mt. It Wel% ll saving unworthy of the greatness of the
nation.
on ibis occasion ; when the
for the purpeee mentioned, Intle month of the St.Lawnence, in the
Adriatic anti the Archipelago, and on the coast of New Zeidatel.— Mr. lit' 19l: wro surprised a' the conduct of the oppositittu snesubere
government they supported we. in power,
A fourth vessel had lately returned from Ca ith Crepe Horn w very heauti-
t,heyhdid not suggest in them to make the giant in opoosition to
"
fully executed charts. Three surveys were also in progress oat the is lajcsty's desire, and he thought it looked as if they were now
set on to embarrass the present nninietiy.—(No, no.) He cement..
Coast of Great Britain. (Hear.) He siteuld fold that the pronto
theueht so after the government had agreed to his Majesty's genteel of
government would give every encouragernat to investigations of this
was very euspicente.
lion. friend
Oen'dTlNllLNlEn.Lpleittalai
eature. the money. he thought their conduct in no t• opposing governinem
After a few words from Sir G. Cerfax, Sir J. GRAHAM, and Si;
had a 1d e
certainly
.1. YORKE, the item was enamel to.perfectlythceenapetit,r,racdanicen
oofpbeiniionigt with
$2,2491. was thee votel for the Dock-yard expenditure.
Sir JAMES Gfi A HAM, in aretwer to a question from an her. embarrass the present minister.. athdehtto"
hleade r, at that the Coast Guard would replace the Coos. Mr. CURTEIS thoueht it wee, most unreasenehle in the present dis-
blockade, and that an immediate seeing of 75,0001. would be effected treswd State of the country, when his Majesty refused the usual want
thereby. that dissatiefaction should be felt at the conduct '
of • • fur 6' '
ministers giving
Sir J. YORKE approved of the proposed change of sehstittoine efl'eet to his Majesty's wishes.
the preventive service for the cortet blockade. He trusted me First The House resolved itself in..) a Committe.
Lori of site Aeituhalty would persevere in the measure notwithstaad- lewd A LTHORP eaM it was from the goner.) •sityof •, he King alone
ins any wino.. that the refusal of the grant proceeded. Ilia ministers wore ready to
dlr. MIME :don approved of the change, and considered it bene- repose it to the hawse if his Majesty had permitted it. (Heat, bear.)
ficial as fer it went ; but instead of all this talk, ahem preventive sere lie had already stated the alterations he purposed to make in the civil
vice a"d meet bled., le. how much better it would he to reduce tile diet- The princieel was to tale: fin:a it all the charges net immedi-
ihnicti on imports. Five or sin huedred theesand pounds a year might at opplicahle te the support of the own;
all other expenses he
then be seecd. toeught, Amulet be placed untier the conturof Parliament. 'The
The event Ihr 82.0001. for the Officers of the Dick-yards at home ntitzre Alteration lie proposed was a reduction in the amount of pensions
was then egreol tn. to 7.0001. The civil list was given in lieu of the hereditary
of , revenues
Sir JAMES GRAHAM then moved for 620,2001. for victualling the crown, and every expense which might be borne out or that ee.
the limey. venue should be moderately provided for, and certainly one of those
Lord G. St INERSET expressed his nstonishment at a Gallant was pensi ins. It was euggated that the best mode was to increase
Admiral's cotsut cof the Bloclerule, as he was a Lord of the Admiralty ti.e /inn. purse, and leave it to the crown to make such payment...
V/ i .110 U t the tulvice of responsible ministers. That •• ' i
viten it wee estoblisliel. (A laugh.) sugges.ion, le
thought wee
Sitor. YORKE replied—Be due as it might, lie was ready to be a a most unconetitutionsl doctrine. The civil list was
right-bend men to :del in suppressing it. (Cheers and laughter.) referred to a select committee, who had not the power of examining
witnesses nor calling for papers. (Hear.) He supposed the reason was
Resolution agreed to. thatthe hto •'
o ~.. did rent think such n pmcceding would be respectful to.
MIRAPPLICATIOX OF PUKILIC MONEY.
On the motion shut the Chairman do quit the Chair, all the Resole-ward his 11• -
. .o, etc,. Questiens, however, were asked by the Committee,
but he objected to any examination but that on the expenses in the e.,:-
dons havitie been agreed to, partmerue of time high milkers of the household. It was found that
Sir B. MARTIN said he wished to put a question to the First Lord
1 60,0001. had been granted
to the privy purse, ana 50,0001. for the
of the Admiralty. It bread been stated in the public prints, and else-
where, that there lhal been misapplication of money granted for public ; Queen sincemarriage of George 111. and the ums were now
services hl
by the late Adieiralny Beard, the Victualliog Beard, &c. Feel- 1 lowed. 119 3141. were allowed fin a eccond classyf expenee, which
itie diet it was nn Infameue falsehood, if it ware meant to be insinuated i made a reduction of about ten thousand pounds in salaries of officers.
In the third cl ,s-, which comprised the expenses of ;he household, the
that any of die. tote Loots of the Admiralty appropriated any part of the .
Public motley to their own penman purposes, he now wished to ask the n Committee did out think it was possible for the King to live in the hos-
Pim Lord of the Admiralty, whether, mice all the inquiries lie had been . Pliable
wished he should ;JC enabled to live, for a smaller sum: without incur.
table manner in which his Majesty wished to lire, and which the peo-
able to Mte etitu, lie believed that one pound or one farthing had been so p,
mivapprooriated by the late Boon!, or whether he held the 'pinion that ring debt, end therefore there was no saving effected in that class. In the
they lied replied the money to any improper purpose. ? if the right fourth class there otos no reelection. In the fifth the pensions were re.
duced, as soloed, to 741001. The whole amount proposed by government
lon. baronet believed that the piddle money had &on eppropriated not
for the public service, he felt a equal that the right hon. baronet, with was 310,0001. The ememince thought the sum of 498,7401. was
that frankness which belonged to his character, would state the fact. sufficient, but the difference was so small that the reduction could
lie would undertake to soy fee all the parties at the Admiralty, and in be of no avail to tile osuntry, and be thought it would be treating
the other departments connected whim the nand service, from the First his hlejesty in a maimer not agreeable to the country to make
lewd down to the lowest messenger, that there lied been no raitaapplicae such u reduction. (Hear, hear, hear.) He would therefore take upon
tion of the peblic money. himself to propose the original sum of 510,0001. The noble lord moved
Sir J. G:{-1H AM said he was quite really to give an answer to the that for the support of the lifoilletlr of the crown and of his Majesty's
inquiry, whether, after all the investigation which he Irene! deemed it household, there be patted to his Majesty a net income of 510.0001.
his dutv tn promote, he tote of °pinkie dim thee: had been, oil the part during his reign, and duo the seine commence from the demise of his
late et icieety. ( Hear, hear.)
of the Adieornley or View:aline. Oepartmeet, &e. any appropriation of
money voted for the petillic scrence to other releases than those of the Mr. HUM E said, whatever was likely to contribute to the comfort of
public service ? With the. frankness whici. was attrihuted to him, he his Majesty, he was hoot ready to grant ; hut en principle he must
unhesitatingly answered, that he wee decidedly of ...Onion, even after object to.. larger went than was necessary. If any sovereigh, ever had
the further inquiries, of which he hint! chic lometio tent there hail been a right to be I reatcil liberally by his people, his present Majesty had
no epplicationnnointhe part of die departments lomat, of the public that claim. (Hear, bees, Ire
r.)
He was willing to yield even his
money to purposes other than .he public service; but the inquiry now Own opinion, but after die deliberate conclusion the Committee had
made went one step farther. Ile was also toh al whether he entertained conic to. he die tiot think the noble lord should ask more than they
the opinion, after investigation and reflection, time the plink money had hod decided nes necessary. The sum of 110,0001. for the privy purse
been in ire...pony opplicel It To eliat question he as unhesiuttingly answered, ' aril the Queen he did not think more than was necessary for their Ma-
" Yes," is helmet to the previous enquiry replied "Ne." The public nio- hones. The next branch of expense consisted of salaries to officers,
ncy was improperly:TOW by thane departments, inasmuch as they had me! evaluate; it by 11,0001. as was proposed, took nothing from the
me net tof his Majesty. 'rite Ct•MMitICC reduced the salary of the
osectionesl elle expenditure of umney. voted tor one purpose,tonte direct.
eel to someotherobjecte, sometimattietevet. named in the estimates. That Lead ( hon.. glair) from 3,085 to 2,0001. In other paits of the world
was apptopriating the public money is a meter never contemplated by the-e high eflie
n. seldome veeeived salaria, atel certainly it could be no
the parliement ; and therefore he had taken the liberty of calling it a coaidwatina to le of Devonshire what atalaty was annexed to the
misapplication of the public money. His charge was not, and had not take. The r, leer of etc how was Kilned from 3.3001. to 2,5001. The
been, that of " malvereation " but s. micapplication."—(Hearn hie • committee t. ight think smite, reductions trifling, but it was a reduction of
was iodic prepared to admit duo it had resulted from error of judgment, I twenty per tet.t. on Kaiaks, anti that was a principle he wished to
aid from following what was termed the ancient practices in such de. • establish. EThe salaries of iteinel servants umounted to 57,0001.
the particulas of which the Ce militate had not inquired into,
pertinent' ; but the misapplications had been so extensive, and the ten-
, dopey of them so injurious to the public interest', that lie had felt It to thongim he thought a similar reduction should be made in their
be his duty to loing them before the house. As to whether he criteria. There was 8,000 paid in sulaies, for which no duty was
believed it ill be poseible that the honottrahle member who had pct 1 l'elfermcd ; and 13,0001. fin superunintatioew and both these sums
the question could hue sanctioned the improper use of the public 1 w, uld fall hue tile Crown.
s 9 mm
had called a n the house to ap-
money, the best answer to such enquiry was, that herd he Owl i ooite a Committee to decide what militia were to be paid to &m-
-any such belief, lie could not be first Lord of the Admiralty while , *7lver. amid raid they would reguLte the salaties of the late-
the hotionothle baronet (Sir B. Martin) was Comptroller of the nor Pli'eera mcerelitony. (Hear, hear.) Ile holed the house would
Nuvy.—(older.) ,m : aoree to the present) topositioa, for if it del. he aperehend-
Sir B. MARTIN said. this answer quite s-tisfial him as fitr as re. iel ti,i:i nth:a III: 011.11111/Zsee intele their report, it would be said
gaoled the person:3 chart:eta of himself, and of those with whom he I thF '"vi‘" % r.as trifling, and it would he refused. (Hear, hear.)—
, had acted ; hut .ts to mother part of the mower, charging moappoehe I The lute elittistry luel refet.al a Committee, and on that they tell.
don, he win pupated to show that f
ie wile quite itimossible that the I 1 h'! •:'S`h'•"'Qrtt 'll the preont Governioeto rose on their fall,
eshmihes
should be phihhhh
t.iiicru isz hum huh, had bthhoehovoeg i cad rained the Committee, but 401, they refuse to conform to
the re:comma:elation of die Committee. The hem, includieg, trades-
bk to stem Lite exact sumo: Mae might be teamed for the several :mica :
of the navy, Or the wivices on which the requisite sueis blight be ex- ; ;men's hull's had tint been inquired into by the Coutnittee, and
peeled. The Admiralty Bonn! heel only pursued the custom which :he should not have censented tn it without ittquirieg, but fir the cif-
had b. en meal upon. lie night say fur centuries. ; cum:dances in which the country was i laced;by the inemitoble Mien it
was receiving from his Majesty. (Hear.) Tee charge cf 10 Os 01. for
Sit J. GRAILi NI observed that in this etaoment there was one
very materiel einholen. If seas ii decided Ite: (mil in the charge that • secret service he could not contorelkod, and he though( it nue hi to be
the practice cm the ehttaimente was ma that which had continued for, abollehed• Ihe 13.0001. disposed of by his Majesty's Almon, r (the
centuries; hue had continual only Ante 1798. At that pa ii.d there; Arcilbi: h. p 0: Yolk), his Maj.! ty km ve to more of then he did, and
:he thought it s ugh. to be dimoutuantl, but should no: oppose it. The
was chores, end a new fond of the Appropriation Act iv:reduced He
admitted the peculiar clean:leer of the navel service. which rendered it pcioione were grunted by ministers. am! tinny of them appear! d Woos:impossible, at all time*, en team the offences for which limey would i t, oueuelieuoble; rued ate thought teey sett uhl be renewed item the civil
be required ;lat he deemed it due. to the Con mons of Enhlet dthat ; "ut• Neither his hon. friend (her H. Pannell) nor himself, sgrecti in
if there were charges libido lied me been tateichnewo, ht. gnu ~ taken ; She Report of the Committee. All the peitsiotts in the late reige, to the
amount of 75,0001. mere placed on the Civil Ls:, !hereby waking his
am servicee white healimt been reqeired, to statethose Las homed of
keeping them buck or wholly out of eight. 'Abut colleen however, Majesty's expense eppeer so nt, eh greater than it really watt. He
staold submit a motion that those 'Kesler. he removed from the Civil
had been portend, and to e very couskertible (sten., duritte the Imo
; mien he would expect Mee no pan of time: pensions el I mid be
four or five yearn Hu heel before stated many instances se h'ele money ,List
' taken for iweticular services had not been ex ended out those service', ear , paid till ministers were prepered to state [or what public services they
only pardully ;other instances whets susall sums had been taken for I sere greeted. They could only be greeted for lite king's, lie, and were
works eind large stints expended without the sanction of Perliamem, and lull lap eed. In the last ten vests 1,939,0001. was pant in penal itx ; had
they been submittal to the House, be was persuaded they WOIL:lil out be
Aeolic., u here large mein had been extended end extensive weeks
montoted without the same heeling ever been mentiencel to the Per- . granted. nut the money would be saved to the (melte. Did the noble
I lord know that all rte slanted by taxing the steam nevigation of the
liement at ell. Since be had mentioued divine particulars, other sinti-
country wet! 75,0001. cutely one halide: pension list. (Hear. hear.) It
pear hots heel crone to iris knot ledge. (Hear, hoar, hear.) Thus, a!
will had been letilt at De:Afoul-yard in 1026 and 1827, costing : was e queolion of great importance, if relief was to be given to the
emu, ay. and it :tether the country was to he relieved or not his Ma-
-76,0u01. while the sum coed fir. it a;... only 8,0001. Again. these ,
should be relieved drain the imputation of having hie civil
Ma-
e a horse-mill built in 1827. at Cheek:no the Cost IS which was :1e!.1.t.
61,0901. hut the vote fen it was only 30,0601. (Hear. hear.) But i:e , list 50 much largerj than sees applied to his use.--(Hear, hear.)
He wished the Ova lot to Le voted by acclamation, and is ;nal nut male Ids former statements as maters Cl inculpation spins. ;
particular johirithah mar did he „o,„.geert to ,i,e„, adversely; out I tee Nohle the
to take the vote recommended by the Committee. He
pashould ileciact the peeeieno to the commit of 75.0001. and the 12,0001.
us matters of mow iejoriotte tendency. as regarded the piddle 'merest,
saving ream =Nit (1 by il.i le nenthee hem the sum proposed, and
and the due administration of public of ettel as et proceeding tbut ire
would move that uir suns of 423,4101. be
.erenteel to his Majesty.
wits preps :el to show. ii the house Sere not lost to a proper 'ruse of
Tee amendment heir g put tot in the ceuir.
its even dignity. it must prevent the recurrence of.
Sir JOSEPH YOH KR said, it upeeared as if his Hon. Friend,
Sir G. CLERK oe.eneed the mode in woke the ereintetes had keen
when he theught his Majesty a good boy, would give him a large
mane out—custom hen been followed—and declared that such wes the
peculiarity of .he navel service,it was impressible to name the sums that tli,""Illee• .11,10 15 he il lie thourin otherwise. would give him less.
1 he late Hotter-mere was won; out bee use they I roposed too Loge a
might be :.cruelty wanted for particular purposes. As far as the late '
Civil List; the new Government cease in eats upped:led a Comuntiee,
Board of Aeiettraity was considered, there was nothing so nincit re.
all their proceed mgt
quired as the fullest inveTh hon. oho made a report, and now tiro y mod 1:0I cure two moms about it. He
rttigatinn into . e
:Mould vote for the sum reeontiocutted by the Committee, not tor that
bermet den went into statements contrasting the; estimates of different
sears, &e. but the impatience of the he use was such, that he tout d it Inehosed by the Noble Lord.
very difficult to proceed, and such as to render hint very imperfectly Ott GEORGE WARR ENDER would be glad to see his Nlinesty's
heard is the gallery. comtort fully provided lA' ; but would adopt the recommendation of the
Committee in reducing the eularke ofthe t tficers of State.
Lord ALTIIORP eventuall re se end submitted to the hen.
Sir. P lIILPOTTS said, mhat it was a duty paramount on every one
baronet, whether he would puree tithe suejett. further on the pre-
to sup; irt his Majesty's Ministers au the principle of economy ; and
sent occasion ? Another subject (the Civil Lim() had been fixed for
lie, on that account, woe d support the system that the pensions award-
ties evening ;half-past ten o clock had relived, and the house mon-
t d to service's performed !11, uld be separated from the civil list.
rally enough' had become impatient to proceed to it, especially es the
And as a reason, he Iseult] sta c that many wieowe, who had pen.
nom baronet's explanation was what night be as advantageously nude
on another evening. et she uwatilvd them for the services of their husbands, who had
to so
_led out rich, had alierwarels gm.; marcittl me of the wealthiest
The Louse resumed, and the report of the navy estimates etas then a
ordered to be presented on Monday. persons of our county. He tititught that the melons which were
Arleen 1./Caitiff OF THE 110I3SE.
granted as acts of charity. ought to ill' withdrawn so soon as the sub-
Lord ALT HORP moved, that the house, at its rising, do adjourn 1.
lel ceased to be art vivo et charity. (The speech of the mem-
ben was rendered scarcely intelligible, on account of a gentleman on the
till Monthly. opposition side of the G allery, who, at short intervals, by inter-
Mr. HU3IE suggested that they should tweet to morrow (Saturday),
ections, ejaculated, in mock efforts of coughing, and cries of " off, off,
as there were many M embers who had great numbers of petitions to 1
Prevent. shame, shame," and other expressions, among which he used the ale.
Lord ALTHORP raid he trusted this motion would not be prene, he ssed. gent expression frequently of `• bah, bah." This was the only one that
(Hear, hear.) After the fatigue that the Speaker had undergo
seemed to catch the notice of the Speaker, who responded it by calling
thought it was too much to require that the house should meet on Sa-
out order at the Bar, on account of the interruptions of the gentleman
nudity.
who lay reclined on the Bench, amid the laughter that he excited, added
to which tee apparent 11:6C1.11et rion of the Speaker of die real state of
Mr. HUME said, as such was the feeling of the house, he would not
press his motion. (Cheers.) the ease, little was heard ofa long speech front the Member who was
CIVIL LIST. speaking) We understood him to couclude with moving, that instead
The order of the day being read for the house going into a come of a pension list being attached to the civil list, that a eon) of 10,0001.
nitro on the Civil List, should be added to his Majesty's private puree, for the purpose ten e sae
Sir THOMAS FREEMANTLE said, he thought the house cising his private bounty.

I

'

Mr. BANKES was of *alien that it w.ts injedicieus to bring the
subject of pensions before that house ; for the sake of principle the sum
recemosended by the Committee ought to be agreed to,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended that where
the amount of saving was so small it was not using his Majesty's Mi-
nisters well to urge it still further. He would not say that the salaries
of the Lord Chamberlain, the Lord Steward, and other officers of the
household, would be reduced—the question would be left to the decision
of his Majesty ; therefore hon. members, by voting for the 610,1t001.
did rot sanction existing salaries, or preclude reduction.
Mr. GOULBURN said lie gave his cordial support to the proposi-
tion of the noble lord. (the Chancellor of the Exchequer.) (hear.)
Mr. R. GORDON thought that ministers ought to agree to the sum
recommended by the committee.
Mr. A. BARING supported the grant, lie contended it would rot be
decent in that house to oppose it.
Mr. HUNT said that the present ministry came into °See on the
principle of retrenchment—the 12,0001. now under discussion was dog-
ble the amount of the sum requited, for defraying the whole charge of
the executive Government of America,(eries of Oh ! oh I) oh ! oh ! oh !
reiterated Mr. Hunt, it may be oh ! oh ! but it is true. (Laughter.)
Lord STORMONT opposed the grant.
After a few words from Colonel Dams, Sir GEORGE WARREN-
DER, and Mr. PatatEa,
Mr. STANLEY hoped that the Government of this country would
never be considered in the mere light of a question of pounds. sititting,,
aid pence. 'I lie hon. 'member for Preston. by the contrast he bud made.
fished it to go forth to the world he hail said in that house, a rstpubli.
earl form of government was to be preferred to a monarchical one (cries
of No. no). Such, he contended, was the meaning fairly to he ga.
thered from the hon. member's remarks.
M. GOULBURN said a few words in explanation.
Mr. SPRING RICE argued that the sum before the house was any
thing but an unreasonable one.
Col. DAVIES observed, as something had been said about turning
the 12,0001. into a contingent fund, he should never consent to tbnt stun,
or any other, forming part of it. coming from the pockets of the people
and going into the pockets of the Duke of Devonshire. (Loud cries or
Ilh ! and qiinstion.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said it was a very reasonable argument hrotigle
forward by the ban. member for Preston. relative to the expense of the
Government of America. The voting these large sums for the High
Officers of the State, was the most certain means of making the peo:tle
inclined to a Republican form of Government that could be adepteti.
He should oppose the grant.
After a few words from Sir J. Graham, Colonel Sibthorpe, Sir It.
Inglis. and Mr. H. me Sumner,
Lord J. RUSSELL was of opinion that a Sovereign who was willing
to accede to every potsaible reduction ought to receive very different
treatment at the hands of the House.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY supported the grant.
Mr. HUM E, considering the state of the House and the lateness of
the hour, should not press for a division.
The motion was then agreed to.
Consiteration of the motion relative to the granting of pensions was
postponed, and the resolutions agreed to were ordered to he reported on
Monday next.
Lord A LTHORP brought in the annual Indemnity hill, which
Was read a first time, anti endued to be read n second time tin Monday.

.
ADJHUMWMENT OF THE HrIUSE.
Lottl .11,THORP gut,: notice, that on Wednesday next he should
mare that the liotisa do adjourn till Tu‘stlay, the 14th of
The otha ortkrA of the day were then disiosed of, and the house ad.
Puttied at a quarter to four o'clock.