Star.
London, England, 1802-04-01 00:00:00

fined ton the other fide, that the Kin was not
meant to be made accountable ; but he beieg,elC.n
tlemcn to read the motion, and they would find
it was idle and nugatory to talk of the Rine':. '
prerogative, or of their purpole, for t!te words
of die motion were, that the Committee fhould
enquire by what authority this money had heel
laid out, and in what manner—if there was thinly
upon this hurl:let's, as to be Prince's property, aed
his right to call for a retliztition of pr i•
since of it as in his opinion might have been mil
applied—the Right Hon. Gentleman thought a
Court of Law the fittest tribunal to appeal to for
the folution, for it would he rather a Ilrange prac-
tice to apply to the Houfe of Commons, in a cafe
of property, to expound the law. Much fleet's
was laid upon the argument, that the King was
not accountable, becaufe the money of the Prince
was expended for the ufe of the Civil Lift, and of
courfc for the public—but as no part of it could
be difpofed of without the content of the King, the
queftion for the Committee would of courle be,
whether the King was accountable or not ? What-
ever the decifion of the Houfe might be on the
motion of the Hon. Gentleman, very material
confiderations would refult from it ; if the decifion
ffiould be unfavourable to the wilhes of the Prince,
a emetlion would mile, whether that decifion would
preclude any application in another quarter for
redrefss and if favourable to the views of his Royal
Highnefs, it would then be for the option of any
future Prince of Wales to leek his right either in
a Court of Law, or by application for a vote of
the Houfe of Commons, betides all die other con-
fequences which would enfue, as he had already
deferibed. The Houle would do well to weigh all
thefe confequences before they fhould attempt to
pronounce judgment upon a quell* of fo much
delicacy and difficulty. It a remedy could not
be obtained at law by his Royal Highnefs, then
it would be the province of Parliament to inter-
pole, and remove any obltruaions that might
/and in the way. When any legal impediments
flopped the progrefs of a fuit at law, the praaice
was to apply to a Court of Equity to remove it I
and what the Court of Equity generally did in
fuch cafes it would be for the Houle to do in this
infiance, fhould Inch impediment O'er to inter-
rupt the legal courfe of the Prince's ilk ; but the
Right Hon. Gentleman had no doubt that the
Houle fhould not interfere any furth:r. To that
lie flintily! ever (Ned. It was not for tl:rn to
flep out of their way. Let the praClice of the
Courts he what it may, it was not for that Houfe
to invade their funlions. He repeated it, that he
defired it to he underflood, that in the vote h:
meant to give again ft the Motion for a Committee,
it was not his intention to eeprefs any doubt of the
right to claim thefe revenues; he merely walled to
perfuade the Houfe, that it would not he. correa
in them to take any cognizance of the right or the
remedy. Of this he .was fo perfealy convinced
that he Aimed his Hon. V, lend, that whether his
propofition and his arguments went to affea or to
deny the Prince's right, hi vote would he, from the
confiderations he had Rated, precifely the fame.
Mr. Fox Paid, that if he undertlood the motion of
the non.• Gentleman on the other fide, for the ap-
pointment of a CoMmittee, it ought to be viewed in
quite a different light to that in which it had been
confidered by the Right Hon. Gentleman who had
juft fit down ; he should argue the queftion in ano-
ther manner, and if there was a doubt as to the
proper wording of the motion, which could he
stieuded, he Mould fuppofe the Houle ought
not therefore to affent to the motion for the Or
der of the Day. However, its he had had no op-
portunity of confulting with the Hon. Gentleman
by whom this motion for a Committee was intro-
duced, and as he had not a corred remembrance
of its diction, he fhould with to have' it read.
—The motion being read accordingly, Mr.
Fox refumed, and obferved that his undo-Rand-
ing was fo frail, that he did not perceive in this
motion one word that involved a point of law ;
it Teemed to him a quell* merely as to matter of
fad. • What, therefore, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, and his Right Hon. Friend who opened the
debate on -the other fide, took for granted, and
argued fo much upon, appeared to him eumplete-
ly irrelevant. The motion pro; .fed to.appoint a
Committee to enquire by what authotity the reve-
nues of the Duchy of Cornwall had been difpofed
of during the minority ofthe Prince of Wales—,
whether by order of his Majetly, or of the Lords
of the Treafury—with a view nu doubt to ground!
Come proceeding upon the refult of that enquit
a procedure perfectly corral in his conception;
but if the motion was not fufficiently clear to au,
lover the purpofe, it might be corralled; any in
correauefs in diaion would be a futile ground of
oblation to the principle of it. Some ennfulion
appearing in the Houle at this time, Mr. Fox took,
occafion to exprels the great fatisfaaion he felt in
the order which the prelent Speaker had preferred
fince his accellion to the Chair, hoping that his
folicitude for order would continue to be evinced,
whatever might be the opinions or the party of
the Speaker.—[/f aaural cry of hear! bear!] Mr.
Fox proceeded—lie conceived the queftion before
the Houfe to relate entirely to faits upon which the
Houfe alone was competent to enquire and to all ;
it would not at all, as the Learned Gentleman at
the lower end of the Houfe maintained, by any
'means invade the itriA conftitutional principle—it
imported this propofition—how much money is
due to the Prince of Wales from the revenues of
the Duchy of Cornwall expended during his Royal
Highnefs's minority—and how is it to he paid ?
Can any demand be more unexceptionable ?
The Learned Gentleman had declined 'to enter
into the quellion as to the right of the Prince.—
The arguments ufed by his Learned Friend (Mr.
Erfkine) and by the Hon. Mover of the Commit-
tee were niumfwered ; and in his (Mr. Fox's) opi-•
nion, they were unanfwerable. They moll clearly
dlablifhed the right of the Prince to the Revenues
of Cornwall, from the hour of his birth. This
point the Learned Gentleman had not attempted
to impugn. It appeared then that his Majelly
ought, in his proteftion of the Prince, to have
aded like any other guardian, folly for the itite-
tell of his ward. The Learned Cooler/len healed
that the Parliament fhauld not interfere in this

cafe, bee:lore it was a epteßion of law but the
LearnaGentleman did not defcribe in %that man-
ner redvefs at law was to be obtained. If, as the
Learned Gentleman feemed to think, the King was
not to be accountable, it was precifely a cafe for
I„:giLlative interference. If the King was to have
distribution of this revenue without controul,
:he grant of Edward the Third and the nature of
Henry the Sixth, and the repeal in the fame reign
%you'd be idle proceedings ; they would be entii el v
u relefs flat ates. When the Learned Gentleman laid
17) much It refs on the impropriety of Parliamentary
interpofition in this cafe, he ought to have fixed
the other modes to which he alluded, ai more eli-
gihlc for the Prince to retort to for the recovery
of his rights ; the Learned Gentleman had not
even hinted at any feafible means of 'bringing
this queftion to a determination in any Court of
Law. For the laws of England he (?Sr. F.) pro.
felled the molt profound refped—he profelfed it
mnft unaffededly, and the more he fludied them
the more his admiration was increafed, not for
the ftatutes, but for the principles of the Englifh
law. There were, however. Tome defeets to be
feen in them, and the molt ftriking was, the
lily-
ation of the King and the Prince of Wales during I
a minority. Without a ftatute of Regency efpe-
cially enaded for the purpole, what was to be-
come of an infant King ? How was the Govern-
ment and Revenue to be managed by a child ?
And a fimilar defea related to the infancy of the
Mince of Wales. How was the revenue of the
Duchy of Cornwall to be difpofed of during his
minority ? The defeA of our laws brought that
queftion this day before the Houfe—and to af.411
their judgment they had the precedents quoted by
I the Learned Mover of the Committee ; and in
modern times the decifion of King George the Se-
cond in Council, that Frederic Prince of iVaies
was entitled 'to the whole revenue of the Duchy of
Cornwall from his birth—that was all the motion,
OPpofed by the Right Hon. Gendeman on the
other fide, had in view. The Learned Gentleman
declined to give any opinion on the juttice of the
Prince's claim, left the cafe lhoold hereafter come
before him in his judicial capacity; a very landa•
ble motive certainly ;—and he hoped the Prince,
Amid the vote of tis day be repugnant to his
withers, would be able to avail himfelf of tome
law proceeding to, procure reflitution of his
property. As a general principle he woald
fithfcribe to the dodrine that the Legiflative
and judicial authorities thould not interfere with
each other—but he would contend that, how-
ever much that principle was to be admired
in the abarad, it ought to give way to the
fuhftantial claims of juaice. The queftion then
was, whether this was a cafe of fuch importance as
tit jullify a fufpenfiffi of that principle, and whe•
cher the caufe of jullice forcibly called for it ? It
was no common fubjeft—it was not a private cafe,
it was between the King and the Heir Apparent, and
precifely of fuch a nature as called for Parliament
to interfere—conlidered in any view, it appeared
Itrongly to intereft every man's retire of equity—a
Prince conceiving himfelf aggrieved, the rents of
his property daring his minority withheld, and the
law pointing out no remedy by which to re-
cover—it would be felt as an extreme hardfhip by
any private individual. Lcgiflative interference,
he was decidedly of opinion, was never more jullly
demanded. If this revenue was applied to the par.
pores of the Civil Lill, it was of comic applied to
public purpofes, and produced a diminution of the
debts of that eflablif:nient. There were therefore
two parties againft whom the Prince applied for
redrefs. The King, who diteded the appropria-
tion of this money, and the public who benefited by
it.: The King is ?rotated by his prerogative—the
complainant is told he cannot make his Majetty ac-
countable ; and the public or their Reprefentatives
will not fuffer even an enquiry to take place. Was
not that (Mr. F. ;liked) a cafe of revere hardfhip %
And Inch would be the fituation of the Prince of
Wales, thould the motion for a Committee be re-
jefted. Among the arguments tired by the Right
Hon. Gentleman on the op Fite fide,there was one
which Itruck himfrom the fingularly curious nature
of it. The Right Hon. Gentleman Rated, that the
90,0001. of the revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall,
applied to the tire of the Civil Lift, were appro-
priated in no other way for the ufe of the public,
but to fecret fervice money ; a pretty confola-
don truly, to tell the Prince that his revenue
was not applied to the tife of the Public, but
for porix)fes of corruption. (A cry of Hear ! bear !
'lran the Oppeition Beachrx.] The • public was
the Prince's debtor, and when he came for pay-
ment he was told that his money was fquanJcred,
and the perfonswho fquandered It told him to leek
for it, but they would not tell him where and by
what means. Without meaning to derogate from
the charaaer of the Learned Gentlemen, whole
abilities he (Mr. F.) very much refofted, he mutt
fay, that however great the ingenuity which that
Learned Gentleman had erhibited,he did not meet
the queftion fdirly—he new-. pretended to difpute
the right of the Prince, yet he oppofed the only
mode which appeared to promife the benefit of
that right, without prapofing any other mode in
its place ;—that was not quite' fo candid. The
Prince applied to Parliament as referees between
his Royal Highnefs and the Public ; he did not ap-•
ply to them to pronounce a legal decifion, but to
make provifion for the payment of a Mil debt.
Such was the end and objed of the motion which
it was attempted to get rid of by moving the,Or-
der of the Day. He trufted that attempt would
not rucceed, and that the Houfe would make lonic
arrangement confonant to the calls of jultice which
thould let therfeelings of two Great Perfonages at
cafe. The journals were not without precedents
of the Houfe interfering in points ot Jaw. They
came to a declaration on the fubjed of general
warrants—a cafe which die Learned Gentleman
might perhaps call an invation of the pri-
vileges of a Court of Law. Parliament had
made many filch interferences in the reigns im-
mediately following the revolution, and- in the
reign of Charles the Second. if the cafe now be-
fore the Hook related merely to private property,
the objeftions of the Learned Gentleman might
have tome weight; but in this inftance• the li Gantt
are the Prince of Wales and the King, or, mons

. . • ' '-
clan-redly fraking,S4rthe public. The one ha,: to
111,2 w the money tpant tiefacie and the mbar the
purpofes to which i: was applied, :nal tomake pre.
patations to retinal h.. If this money was :TIM).
priated to the purpoks of the p;aey put fe, thz ar-
gument for this motion was alit itrumaer. .euit
had it been In lie was firmly peiluaded that ilia
Royal Iliehtiefs would never have le ouch: The
fubjed into ii,ie itic.n. His Royal Highness lea,
as he lhoeld feel, too high a ralicei tor 1:14:11 a
lather t i .an 1,---be woul.i faal iiimfell ariel y c t».
Nitrated by the attention and patereal Li . 11e... he
had experienced, for any p.:coniary lo:',his 1 . al
Highnefs would not, coder such di:at:nit...! ,:.
look for any enquiry. The PI il)c:., he was ps.a-
fttadedoeculd he as flow to demand it, as ti. Liog
would he ready to pay it, if &man:lel—bat La
had no difficulty la affettiog the public was the.
Prince's debtor. Pealing the diiTicalt:es ii . ler
which the Prince laboutred—difficolties ivat.7l,
could not attaah to any pr:vate iedVdaal,—t': it
though his right was clear and undif:mted, li;s
remedy was far front bei:ig ciear,and was tit caely
difputcd, he (Mr. Fox) hoped the Ho, tfe, for
their own credit, would take the bulinats in..st con-
fideratinn, and ad as became an Afllleilily alive
to fentiments of linneur. The Pig!t: Pon.
Gentleman on the onpolta fide had a.arau:d, that
the King, as Guardian, was not 1,0)0 to the
rules and laws which aliened a ro'ej C't ; that L'it•!l
if lie were, the expellee of tha Puttee's education
thould be dedadad ft oto tit! revenues oldie Duch/
of Cornwall, and that thea a very (mall b4leece
would remain. Tice argument was wc.ik, for .I.e
Houfe would recoiled that his Majelly had alto
educated the I)ukc of York, without intel ferirg
with hi privata patihnony. The reventies of ;he
Billtopiic . :a.naburgh wet e held sacred, and tai•h
their pi-duce climes were pm-chafed in thi, count-
try for that Royal Duke. He did all in Mat in-
Rance as became a father, and as a Kiaa •a. r;teat
Iltietin ought to aa.—Coald it be Inertial C...t
he would make any filch diClinalion Fel kacen I.s
ions as the argument of C:.,: Right Honoarable
Gentleman would intimate I Certainly not. Butt
even if the dillination was to be drawn, due ha-
lance allawed by the Right Honourable Cientia.
man to be doe to the Prince would be coofider.
ably advanced, if the latter years of his mino-
rity, when the expence of education could not
be raid to continue, were to he dcdualed. With
reined to the filence of thole who fupported the
Prince's application to Parliament, in reni, on
the fubjea of this claim, it was Cutely rather
unfair to draw, from the negligence of tho:.e. inp.
porters, an argument againd the equity of the
Prince's pretenlions at this day, even if the:e fop.
porters were negligent; but the fad was that Me ilis.
Wallace, Lee, Erlicine, and Paine, were then con-
ceited upon theTubjed, and in cenfequence of fome
difference of opinion between thefe celebrated men,
arifing,no doubt, out of the glorious uncertain, y of
thelaw,it wasleft undetermined. As to the Prince's
gra eflablilment, he was at the time decidedly of
opinion that it was much too frnall fora pet fon of
his high rank ; but his opinion and that of others
was overruled by the fentiments of his Majef.-
ty. Upon the whole, he thought a wrong view
had been r:tken of the que;lioa by the itzght Hon.
Gentleman oppolite to him, and the Learned.
Gentleman at the lowcr end of the Houle. He
profefred to efieem the Ipirit, pradicc, and formt
of the law; and he hoped it would not be eon.
tended that either' could impede the progrefs of
justice, whether applied to perfons in 'high or low
rank. Though it was fo itrongly contested that
this was a law queflion, no one gave one hint of
the mode of trying it—No not even a ea:immering
of hope that it could he tried, or that the Legifia-
ture would be refitted to in any thane, cr at any
time, to decide it, or to facilitate its decifinn elle,
where. He hoped and willed, however, that
whatever might he the vote of this day the matter
in difpute would he Citisfadorily determined sin
tome way. It ought to be recollected, that by the
arrangements of 1795 the Ps ince was very much
Ilraitened: and that lie had since moll refpceilluily
conformed to arrangements, promoting by every
means in his power the ditcharge of all demands
upon him. It oug':t alto to be confidered how
much there arrangements ditqualifi‘d his Royal
Highnefs from maintaining the splendour of his
Ration ; and furely the fplendour of the Prince
was entitled to Come confideration, as that of the
Monarch formed fo material a part of the argu-
ment on a late occallon—as that was conceived-to
effential, the fplendour of the Heir Apparent was
of tome importance alto. Let not that fidendour
be any longer fufpended. So firongly imprelfed
was he (Mr. Fox) of the neceffity of relieving the
Prince from the preffure to which he had fo long
and fo patiently fubmitted, that had application
been made to Parliament in his favour, indepen-
dent of this quiellion, that application Ihouild have
had his warmefi support. " Thepublic on this oc-
cation, (laid Mr. Fox) if they willaidopt the lan.'
guage of the Right Hon. Gentlemaa oppollte 'to
me and his Learned Friend, teem tome to fay to
the Prince, ' We acknowledge we owe you itoney,
but you behaved unhandfomely in applying to us
as a creditor ; try to litigate it in Court, if yon
pleafe, but we will not gripe ion any affiliance; we
rather fufpaa you have no meanSof enforcing pay.
went ; your right may be clear, but"take your re.
medy ; go to your Attorney and consult with him,
and he perhaps will tell you you have no remedy...
Such (added Mr.F.) is the honeli lartiage which
the rejeaion of this motion for a 'Committee will
holdout to the Prince. One of three things nittft
be done in this bufinefs ; the one to pay the Prince
if there is no doubt of his right, and do honour to
the reputation of Parliament ; the other, if there ii
a doubt, let it be inveßigated, and come to a deci.
lima upon the refult of that invetligation ; the third
is, if you difapprove of the grounds of the claim,
declare that your deci'-ion in this cafe (hall not be a
ground for the finisher preceed ng to any e, futue
Prince of Wales. If, however, you wii: !end :is
Royal Hie! alars to the Courts beiata. n, ta*.a",he ti e
atarle he ought to purfue; but I fhouldrecommend
the application of the a..%,::zentum ad inconvenitnti to
i•.l,is as in another cafe, in which a declaratory.:aw
•is trade, era-,:aliti from its operation a Gentle.
maa then Lttint, in that Houk. in oppofition to the