Star.
London, England, 1805-06-15 00:00:00

notion of the Treifurer's office, in which the thee;
was fo perfef, that ars), deviation teemed itupraai-
cable. Yet in prattice abates had been deteded.—
This flruck him as fingular in the machinery ; and as
to the borrowing and fending between one branch
and another which had occurred, though he alledged
nothing wrong, yet it was poffible that this by-play
might take place, and if it could lead to prat:1;011
ahnfe it fhould be prevented. He alluded alto to the
non-payment of bills when due, which frequently
took place, a circumftance, which for the regularity
of bufinefs and the credit of the Government, Should
he prevented. Having gone through the liatements,
he kid, that he had now nearly finished the talk he
had undertaken, in bringing before the Houfe the
different Refolutions on the fubjea of the Report be•
fore them. He trolled that the Houfe would fo far
concur with him on this occalion; that they would
not fuller a violation of law, capable of fuch abate as
the Loan to Boyd and Benfield, to pals without a
protell againft the precedent. This was the more ne-
?tffary in the prefent circumftances, when the weight
of public burdens was fo great, and danger of mai-
verfation in the adminiftration of our immenfe reve.
noes fo much to be dreaded. It was neceflary to
Slew too, that notwithftanding the confidence which
Mr. Pitt had enjoyed, yet when irregularities com-
mitted by him, even though in the hurry of other
more important concerns, and amid( the trying Situ-
ation of the country and of Europe, at former times
were-difcovered, they were not to pats without a eau-
Lion to prevent their being drawn into example. lithe
Right Honourable Gentleman himfelf was conkious
of the purity of his meiives, he ought to have no ob-
jeliou to fuch a warning being given to his fuccef-
fors.—He concluded with calling on the friends of
Lord Sidmouth, whofe adminiß ration was praifed as
fo conftitutional and ceconomical, to join in a vote,
which went to Secure regularity and ceconomy in the
management of the public money. That Noble Lord
had been thought by the Houfe, and particularly by
Mr. Pitt, as a bad War Minifler, and it might have
been thought he was the worft the nation could re-
ceive, till the la( twelve months adminiftration of
Mr. Pitt (hewed that he was exceeded ; for if Lord
Sidmouth had done little, Mr. Pitt had done lets
and under LordSt.Vincent's adminißration, we knew
where the enemy's fleets were, but now they go to
Sea, and meanwhile we remain ignorant in what
quarter they are to dire& their attacks on us. Upon
the prefent occafirm, therefore, the friends of Lord
Sidnouth had an oprrtunity of upholdingthe princi-
ples of financial adminiitration which they claimed for
that Noble Los d. He then read the Refolutioris:
" That Nam Boyd, Heeled, and Co. being Contractor, for
two I.oans in September, 1796, did, in the month of December
following, repro/cm their inability to the Right Hon. the Chancel-
lor of the Exelsegoer to make coot: their initalmenu, ea account
of the eonduet of the Bank, and the difappoinunents they had met
with from various eagles."

" That etc Chancellor of the Exchequer being impreffed with
the neceffity wf !importing the hook of the Paid Mara Boyd, Ben-
field, and Co. for the fake of public credit, and having undcritood
the Treafurer of the Navy,that the fum of 40,0001. could be fparcd
from the Naval Service, upon good fecurides, did coufcut to ad-
vance the fame."

" That the money was *dually advanced upon competent (mu-
rky, and was repaid by Boyd, &afield, and Co. without lutereft ;
that no memorandum waa made of the tranfadiou, and no Ail of
indemnity applied for."
That the advance of the raid eo,oool. as above Rated, was con-
trary to law, and unlefs the At notice were taken, might cdtablith
a d.ngerous precedent."
" That, in confequenee of a Memorial from the Right Hoa.
Hcnry Oundas' the then Treafurer of the Navy, praying fur a
difcharge from former amounts, and from an amount of 24,cr001.
advanced to Adam jeilleac, it was refolved, that the l'reafurer of
the Navy ihould be fodifeharged ; and therefore a *arrant was
directed for that pumofe."
" That a Writ of Privy Seal was prepared, executed on the
28tH of May, and appearing to be regißrred on the Hit of May,
by which the Treafurer of the Navy was exonerated." Further
that the balance due from Adam Jcllicoe, on the 3oth of
June. 1788, had encreafed to 3y,0001. exclufire of certain ether
rums not comprehended in this balance." And lailly, " That the
Firft Lord of the Treafury did not ufc the means to make the fish-
able empaies previoully to the exoneratiou of the laid Treafurer
of the Navy."

As Coon as the Refolutions were handed up to the
Chair,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rofe, and. in a very mafterly fpeech, vindicated
his condo& with refpea to all the points on which
the left Speaker had animadverted. He began by
obferving, that much of what had fallen from the
Hon. Member was wholly irrelevant, not only to the
particular Refolutions with which be had concluded,
but to that fubjet which it was his with to dire& the
attention of the Houfe. All that had been advanced
of -a gene' al defcriptinn, all that related to the
amount or diftribution of our naval and military force
was totally extraneous on the prefent occafion. No-
tice had been given, for no very ditiant day, of a
motion, when alt thefe fobjeas would be fully confi-
dered, and therefore he mould in the mean time con-
fider them as quite foreign to the bufinefs before the
Houfe. He declined too entering on the fubjell of
the funded and money market, on which the Hon.
Gentleman had expreffed himfelf in fuch Rrong
terms. Perhaps the terms were not fufficiently adap-
ted to the Hon. Gentleman's claffical idiom, but the
exigence of a money market hi a country conftituted
as this was, where commercial fpeculations, formed
as-it were the ground work on which the whole pecu-
niary details of the Rate were condueed, .whatever
objeftion there might be to the term, there could be
none to the
.exigence of an eflablifhment by which
thefe objeas could be accomplifhed. If the Hon.
Gentleman was at 411 difpofed to reprefent there mo-
ney trantaaions as being at all proofs of a fordid (pi-
rit, he was confident that fuch a do trine would be
but little reliflied either in the Houfe or the country.
After making there preliminary oldervations, the
Right Hon. Gentleman went on to the diredt confi-
deration of the fubjea, in Ibbltance as follows: The
Hon. Gentleman has fir( of all alluded to the com-
munication of Mr. Raikes, and as he does not fay
that there exiiis on this part of the (Oita any dire&
charge againhi my conduit, it is the lets neceffary for
me to take up the time of the Houfe. When the
Hon. Gentleman firft alluded to this fubjea, he cer-
tainly viewed it in a light different from what he has
now ex preffed, and it gives me great fatisfaaion that
the inquiry which has taken place has fo far altered
his opinion. As be has found in this inftance that he
was too precipitate in his original conclufion. I troll
that be will henceforth be more cautious in expreffing
his opinions of the criminality of others before their
condua has been fully inveftigated. When Gentle-
men (peak of the attention to be given to any com-
munication, it is fortify not alking too much that they
keep in view the circurafincec wade, which the

communication took place, the degree of nntheatici.'
ty which it may reafonably be fuppofed to pollefs, the
charader of the individual by whom it is communi-
cated, and the probability that what has been com-
municated is confiftent with truth. Now with regard
to this communication of Mr. Raikes I mutt be per.
mitted to obferve, that it was not made in his capaci-
ty of Governor of the Bank of England—it was not
given as a Ratement derived from his own knowledge,
hot one obtained from the information of others—it
was not accompanied by any documents—it was not
repeated under circumftances more Rriking than
when originally produced. Taking into view, then,all
the circumflances of the cafe, and calling the atten-
tion of the Houle to what appears in my evidence be-
fore the Committee, I hope that there will be no rea-
fon found for fuppofing that !have not in this inflame
fulfilled my duty to the country in that confidential
fituation which I then enjoyed, however I may regret
that in confequence of what has fince appeared, the
inquiry had not been at that time more fully purfued.
—But the Hon. Gentleman thinks it extraordinary,
that I &mild not have kept in my recolledion that
the pradice of withdrawing money from the Bank
and placing it in the hands of a privatc banker was
contrary to the provifions of an exprefi Ad of Par-
liament. In my evidence before the Committee, I
did not Gy that the Ad of Parliament was not in my
recolledion, but only elided that I might not at
that time have particularly adverted to all its provi-
lions. I will not now enter into any controverfy as
to the real conflrudion of the Ad, but undoubtedly
it is a grave queftion, whether the meaning of the
Ad is, that even when the money is boaaj& drawn
out of the Bank for purpofes aridly naval, it may
not be lodged in the hands of a private banker for
the greater facility to be given to the public fervice?
I will not now Wilt on this point, but certainly from
my evidence before the Committee, it moil appear
that I received what appeared to me fuch a faiisfac-
tory account of the withdrawing of any part of the
public money from the Bank, for the purpofe cf be.
ing placed in the hands of a private banker, as in my
mind rendered more minute enquiry altogether un-
neceffary. The next point to which the Honourable
Gentleman adverted was, the cafe of Mr. Jellicoe,
on whole deficiency to the public, Lord Melville ob-
tained a full releafe by an order of the Treafury.—
After having examined this fubjed with the utmott de-
gree of attention, I Rill remain of the fame opinion
now, that I entertained when the releafe was originally
obtained. I think enough was then laid before the
Trcalbry to Galion that meafure, and I cannot
think that any further invelligations would have
placed the matter in a clearer point of view. Let
me, in a few words, Rate the circumftances of the
cafe fairly to the Houfe: Mr. Jellicoe was an old fez.-
yam of the public, and one who it was fisppofed had
ferved with diligence and fidelity. He had been em-
ployed long before Lord Melville was appointed to
the Treafurerfhip of the Navy, and therefore in any
of his proceedings refpeding him, the Noble Lord
could not be fuppofed to ad from any feelings of par.
tiality or prejudice. Soon after Lord Melville's ac-
ceffion to office, he difeovered that Mr. Jellicoe was
greatly embairaffed, and that the balances in his
hands were much larger than the fecurity of the pub-
lic money could admit of, as there appeared no rea-
fonable prnfped of their being fpeedily liquidated. 1
only alitof the Houle to look at the circumftances of
this cafe, and then to fay whether it was not impof-
fible not to mix in their contemplation of it, feelings
of compaffion, when they
.confidered that 11.. Jelli-
coe was as it were drawn into that fort of connection
which accomplifhed his ruin. Every one who knows
the private charader and difpofitions of Lord Mel-
ville, mutt know that he is peculiarly alive to fuch li-
beral and humane impreflions, and that he would
not he difpofed to pufh matters to the lalt extremity,
unlef: forced to it by the imperious call of public duty.
If a different courfc had been followed than that
which Lord Melville purfued, the confequence might
have been that the individual and his family might
have been ruined, while'the public would for ever
have been deprived of even the chance of recovering
any part of the deficiency which exißed. Aging then
on kind and benevolent views, without at all cow.
prornifing the public intereit, Lord Melville did give
time, and looking to the fubjed with all the care I
could, I thought, and (till continue of the fame opi-
nion, that what he did was not only fiddly jullifiable,
but ei•titled to the highelt approbation. Such was
the view which the Treafury took of the fubjed, and
filch, after the inquiries before the Committee, was
the opinion which the Houfe was bound to hold at
the relent moment. The Honourable Gentleman
has indeed alluded to the Incongruity of dates in the
warrant of the Treafury, and it is eafy to .conceive
that this may have happened through mere inadver-
tency. If, however, the inflruments had been made
out before the Treafury had actually agreed to the
warrant, I fee no reafon for imputing to any indi-
vidual ferious criminality. The Houfe are not un-
aware, that the difpatch of bufinefs frequently re-
quires difpenfing with forms. If forms were in
every cafe to be rigidly enforced, official bufinefs
would, in many inßances, be materially obtruded,
and in fume cafes totally put to a Rand. In this
particular cafe it may have happened that the war-
rant
was made out on my authority, and if the induce-
ments which were to prevail on the Treafury were
not fubmitted for a few days after this mechanical
part of the bufinefs was completed, furely no mate-'
rial difference exifted. The refponfibility on my part
was not in the fmalleft degree weakened ; and if the
proceeding at all required vindication, I was prepar-
ed with the fame defence in the one cafe as in the other.
The Hon. Gentleman, however, fays, that the mode
of granting the releafe was not regular, and in this I
can by no means agree with him ; on the contrary,
from all I have feen or read, it appears that all tran-
fadions of this fort were carried through by an order
from the Privy Seal. The Hon. Member alfo com-
plains, that no precedent of a fimilar proceeding can
be produced, and this I am the more furprized at, as
the cafe of Lord Grenville Rrikes my mind as being
lin every refped analogous. In the cafe of Lord Gren-
ville, a turn for fecretery ice money was paid by Lord
Grenville, with the view of promoting the public in-
tereft, and the perfon who received it betrayed his
truß. Lord Grenville made oath of the payment of
the money, and by a warrant under the Privy Seat
received compenfation: Precifely fimilar to this was
the cafe of Lord Melville, one of whole officers be.
trayed his trust, and therefore the Noble Lord equally
deferred* Weak:feast eke -courequenca of

condo& f !hall not further ehlarge oft this hese. ; t I
proceed to the confideration of the advance of ttie
ao,oool. to Boyd and Benfield, on which In mod•
animadvedion has taken place. On this part of the
fubjeft the Honourable Gentleman adverted to the
life of Hamburgh bills, to the circumftances attend.
ing two different loans, and to feveral other fobjee.,
all of which have been formerly under the confider,!.
tion of this Honfe. Through the whole of thefe fub.
jeds it is certainly not my with to follow him, but on
one or two points it will be neceffary for me to make
a few obferrations. The Honourable Gentlema,
fuppofes that there was a dole loan formed for the
fervice of the year 1795; but I believe that it muff be
in the recollection of the Houfe, that this Ratement
is incorrect. The firft dofe loan was in December
1795. and the feccnd was in April 1796. Let not
the Hon. Gentleman, however, imagine, that thefe
loans were thus negociated,with the view of favouring
any particular individual. The fad war, that feveral
inftalments of the former loan, for the tervice of the
year 1795, Rill remained unpaid, and, according to
pofitive agreement, no loan by competition was to be
negociated, till the whole of the intlalments were
completed. In 1795, Mr. Boyd, and other refpedablo
perfons, were admitted to the loan, as the higheft
bidders, and the dole loan was given to them, in pre.
ference to any other party, the public fifth being
pledged to them explicitly to that extent. If the
Hon. Gentleman means to fay, that I ever gave Mr.
Boyd any improper preference, I can appeal to the
circumftances of the cafe to thew that he is millaketu
In no cafe have I ever interfered with undue influ-
ence, in contracting for a loan, but have, on the con.
trary, on all occafions, been anxious to preferve the
principle of fair competition. As a proof of this, let
me recal to the Hon. Member's recollection. the vote
of this Houfe refpeding that very loan of which the
Hon. Member (peaks in fuch fevere terms. (Here the
Right Honourable Gentleman read tbettefolution of
the Houfe, approving of his conduit in the general
principles of negotiating loans). With refped to the
Hamburgh bills, of which the Honourable Gentleman
has fpoken ft, much, a few words of explanation
will be neceffary, as many Gentlemen were not mem-
bers of this Flonfe, when the traufaflion alluded was
fully in9uired into' and decided upon, after a full in-
velligation by a Committee. The Hon. Gentleman
has laid, that the bufinefs was got rid of by moving
the previous queftion, but he does not Rate that this
courfe was adopted merely becaufe the fads to be
declared in the firft Refolutions, were held to he un-
neceffiry, as they were to be followed up by Refolu-
tions of thong cenfure againft my conduct. The
firft Refolutions were accordingly got rid of by the
previous queftion ; but the Hon. Member has not
furely forgot what was the fate of two other refo.
lotions by which they were followed. On thefe
the Houfe divided ; and, let me Rate, that the two
tellers were an Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr.
Jekyl) and another Hon. Gentleman on the other
tide, (Mr. Whitbread). The ayes went forth, and
no lefi, than eight members concurred with thefe Ho-
nourable Gentlemen in opinion, that the ufe of Ham-
burgh Bills was a practice to be reprobated. Such
was the opinion of the Houfe as to that practice,
which even now the Honourable Member condemns
as contrary to all honour. Now, Sir, let me fay a
few words as to the circumftances under which the
Loan to Boyd snit ll..sreldsa ney
had been contractors for the two loans of eighteen
millions in December, t 795, and of feeen millions in
the fpring of the following year. At the time their
application was made, they continued holders of a
number of !hares. Al that time it was needlefs for
me to remind the Houfe, that there was a moll dif-
treffing fcarcity of money in the mercantile w0r1d...-.
Securities, however good in themfelves, bills, parti-
cularly of a remote date, nay even Government bills
and Eaft-India fecurities, could not be exchanged
for money. An inftalment on the loan of April
was to be paid, and in their application to me,
they Rated diftinftly that unlefs Tome aid was afford-
ed them by Government, they could not find mons?
to cower it, though in poireffion of undoubted fe-
-1 curities. I know that in the firs examination of
Mr. Drummond, one of the partners in the houfe,
this fad is not admitted. On his fecond examine.
Lion, however, he Rates, that he had mifconceieed
the import of the quettion formerly put to him ; and
that in September, 2796, fuch was the fcarcity of
money, that fecurities which in ordinary cafes were
availably for all purpofes, had become totally ufelefs.
But it is not, Sir, to his evidence only that we are
to look to the proof of this Ratement. We have a
general recollection of all the circumstances to which
he alludes; and we know that the Roppage of
payments at the Bank arofe out of the fame caufes.
A molt intelligent gentleman too, a Member of this
Houfe (Mr. S. Thornton), and from his fituation
both as Governor and Deputy Governor of the Bank,
well qualified to give a cored} opinion on the fuhjed,
declared before the Committee, that this reprefenta-
tion of the Rate of the mercantile intereft of that
time was by no means exaggerated ; on the fame
molt refpedable authority the Houfe would fee that
if the houfe of Boyd and Bonfield had fold Scrip to
relieve themfelves from embarraffment, they would
only have accelerated that evil which they were
anxious to ward off. At that time the difcounr was
from 53 to 15 per cent. and if Boyd and Benfield
had come into the market with a large torn, the con-
fequence mutt have been, that a Rill larger depreci-
ation would have taken place. This, howeerr.
would have been only a part of the difaftrous cottfe-
quences which molt have enfued. If it had been
known, and furely I need not Cay that it would have
been impoffible to conceal it, their creditors would of
courfe have immediately become clamorous for a fa-
tisfaCtion of their demands. A run would have im-
mediately taken place, and an embarraffment which
was only temporary Might hare been fucceeded by
abfolute ruin. If the relief then afforded had not
been given, the confequence was, that other loan-
holders would have been unable to complete their
payments, and would have been involved in a iimi-
lar cataftrophe. A new loan mutt therefore have
been negociated, and thelofs to the public mutt have
beenlar more coofiderabTe than if the whole of the
40,0031. advanced had been loft without hope of
rettitution. Let another circumflance be kept in
view, and that is, that the houfe of Boyd and ben-
field had been alive in making thofe pecuniary ad-
vances to the Continent, at a period when of liance
given to the Emperor of Germany appeared to hold
uut a reafonable hope of the permanent fafcty of this