Star.
London, England, 1822-05-21 00:00:00

ALEIIOUSE LICENSING BILL.

;.

to
to put

Mr. BENNET moved that the Order of the Day
be read for the second reading of the Alehouse Li-
censing Bill, for the purpose of postponing it.
Mr. BERNAL objected that the Bill, as he now
understood, did not apply to the alehouses in the
metropolis, but to all those in the country. This
was a principle of distinction which he was by no
means prepared to admit.
Mr. BENNET said, that his Hon. Friend ought
to have made himself better acquainted with the sub.
ject, before he came to speak upon it. What he said
as to the Bill not applying to the alehouses in the
metropolis, had no foundation in fact._ There was
not an alehouse in the whole kingdom that would
not come within its operation ; but separate and dis•
tinct iemedies were to be provided for the grievances
in town and country.
Mr. MONCK thought it impossible for any man
not to see that the present system ought to be altered.
In the town he represented (Reading) there were 60
public-houses, not one of which was a free house,
being all in the hands of brewers.—The Bill was or-
dered to be read a second time on Friday next.

MARRIAGE ACT AMENDMENT BILL.
On the motion of Dr. PHILLIMORE, the House
resolved into a Committee on the Bill for amending
the Marriage Act. The Hon. and Learned Member
then proposed a clause, substituting the words " na-
tural mother" for " natural and lawful mother," in
that part of the Bill relating to consent of guardians.
Mr. WETHEItELL opposed the clause, and said
that nine-tenths of the Bill appeared to him nothing
better than superfluous legislation. The clause, so
far from tending to elucidate and define that part of
the Bill to which it referred, went rather to create ob-
scurity and confusion. The Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber concluded by moving as an Amendment, " That
all the words after the word 4 enacted' be left out."
Sir J. MACKINTOSH, in the course of some ob-
servations, said he was not prepared to find any Hon.
Member stand up in that House to argue against the
necessity of making some alteration in the law as it
now stood ; and least of all was he prepared to find
such a course taken by his lion. and Learned Friend.
For his own part he deprecated the Marriage Act in
its present form, as an evil that cried aloud for a
remedy. It induced the most active principles of
repulsion into the very bosom of social life. The Ho-
nourable and Learned Member then took a retro-
spective view of the operations of the Act from 1753
down to 1799, when judgment was given in the case
of Liddiard and Horner; and coistentled that, from
reasons of the most cogent and pressing description,
it ought to be altered. At present, any abandoned
villain might avail himself of its provisions to bring
ruin and misery on the woman whom, in the first in-
stance, he had taken for his wife; and by the same
provisions, families might be illegitimatized from
generation to generation.
• Dr. LUSHINGTON admitted that the grievances
arising from the law required a remedy ; but he
thought that his Hon. and Learned Friend exagge-
rated the nature and extent of them.
Dr. PHILLIMORE said, that the object of the Bill
%vas in a great measure misunderstood. The Bill was
not to be confined to the marriage of natural chil-
dren. In the present state of the law all marriages of
minors without the consent of parents or guardians
were to be for ever made null and void. The mar-
riage was to be kept in equilibiio, not for one, two, or:
three years, but for ever; and it was competent for
either party to come forward after any number of
years, after having, perhaps, a numerous offspring,
aside the marriage. The object of the Bill was
certain limits to that indefinite time. It was to
a defect In the law, the evil consequences of
have been so multiplied within the last 20
There could be no greater violation of justice,

~~

than that personNao ha beim IPoullea for Pam
and bad a family,taight come foramed to set aside
that marriage founded on a licenses which Was pt(
cured by their own perjury. lie hoped the' ommit
tee would support the Bill.
The CHAIRMAN then rose to put the question
the first clause of the Bill.
Dr. PHILLIMORE said that, in compliance with
the suggestions of several individuals, he would pro-
pose the addition of some words to render valid mar-
riages already contracted.
Mr. WETHERELL said nothing could be more
unjust than to give the Bill a retrospective opera-
tion. He would object to any clause which would
lead to the deprivation of private rights, in a Bill that
was meant to be for general purposes and .to operate
prospectively.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, that with re-
spect to the objection of his Hon. and Learned Friend
(Mr. Wetherell) to the retrospective operation of the
Bill, he could cite many examples of Statutes to,
which the same objection would apply. But did any
one ever hear any complaint of those Statutes? There
were Statutes of limitation to pecuniary demands of
six years standing: there were Statutes of limitation
to claims of landed property. Those laws, when they
were passed, had a retrospective operation. The man
had a claim by the one system under which he lived,
and by the next system was restrained from prose-
cuting that claim. There were provisions in one law
against unjust pecuniary demands—as a tailor's bill,'
for instance: there were provisions against dormant
and stale claims on land: but the sacred rights of a
father, of a wife, of a husband, and of innocent chil-
dren, were left liable to be called in question at any I
time. He felt that this defect in our Marriage Law
exposed us to the charge made on us by foreigners,
who said that we attended to no object that was not
connected with pounds, shillings, and pence. He
would point out to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman'
several Acts which had a retrospective effect: the
Marriage Act was passed in 1763; and such was the
security of it, that, ten years after, another Bill was
brought in and passed, by which he marriages pro-
hibited by the former Act werelegitim ati zed and made
valid. He would call to the Hon. and Learned Gen-
tleman's recollection the case in 1804, when Lord
Hertford brought in a Bill which had the same ef-
fect. There was no analogy between the contract of
marriage and any other contract, under the circum-
stances which this Bill was intended to provide
against; because the marriage became actually void,
and the unhappy woman was placed in a situation
the most calamitous that a woman in society could
be put into. The Marriage Act was originally in-
tended to provide a remedy against a great many
evils; but, like many remedial Acts, it only produced
much of the evil it was intended to cure. It became
in time a haughty and dominant law, shedding a de-
structive influence over that structure of society
where there was no confusion of orders, but where
they were blended and held together, from the foot
of the Throne to the last limits of liberal education.
The law was made against marriages of affection: it
was made for rank and wealth, against virtue and
nature. It produced uncertainty, and carried distrust
and hostility into the bosoms of families. As soon
as the Hon. Member's motion had been disposed of,
he should move for the omission of certain words.-

Mr. WETHERELL explained on the point which
regarded the retrospective laws cited by the Honour-
able Gentleman who spoke last, contending that they
did not apply to the question.
Mr. D. GILBERT would state one fact, shewing
that in cases of necessity the Legislature had passed
laws with a retrospective effect. In cases of deeds
and wills, the original mode was to seal and deliver
them : about six years-ago, it was found out that these
instruments were either signed, or signed and sealed,
but not delivered. The Legislature having taken into
consideration that property to the amount of several
millions had passed in this erroneous way, enact a
law rendering all such instruments valid. In a case
where the evils was so great the necessity of a re•
medy struck the mind of every one—a remedy, even
if it was imperfect, ought to be by all means adopted.l
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that he'
considered the present law so defective, that, as a
moral people, they should endeavour to amend it.
The mass of calamity and crime which grew out of,
it was of such a nature, that if its career was not cut
short, the evil consequences would disseminate them-
selves through society to an extent that would be the
source of a severe reproach to the Legislature of the
country. He did not see why individuals who had
come into Court to take the benefit of the law should
be placed in a worse situation than those who had
not begun the remedial process at all. He was for
extending the benefit of the law to those whose cases
might stand in need of a remedy.
The amendment was then put and negatived.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH then moved the
omission of several words in the next clause, which,
after a few words from Dr. PHILLIMORE, was carried.

The other clauses were then agreed to, and the
House resumed.—The Report was. ordered to be
brought up to-morrow.

course . foreign
merely an enacting Bill, free from air:spells, except
those immediately connected with the subject of the
Act winch it was intended should be reserved. First
of all, the Bill now before the House repealed all
Acts relating to commerce from the time of Edward
111. when the first law passed for the regulation of
our trade with foreign countries, to the time of Charles
H. The Acts of the 12th of Charles IL were unr-
versally looked upon as the Navigation Laws of this
country. The repeal of the ancient laws was pro-
posed to be effected under three heads :—First,.those
laws that from the state of our commerce were en-
tirely unnecessary ; secondly, those inconsistent with
the spirit of. the Navigation Laws; and lastly, those
which were rendered unnecessary by subsequent Acts.
Whatever difference there might be in the details of
these measures, there certainly could be but one opt-
nion amongst all as to the expediency of rendering
the law as little subject as possible to doubt. Though
these Bills had been now for some time before the
country, yet there had been no considerable hostility
sbewn against any of them, except against the Bill
relating to the export of wool, and the importation
of woollen cloths. Some alarm had been felt for the
Bills relating to the Acts upon those two points; but
with respect to the first, the Acts had been already
consolidated by an Act of George 111. and as to the
latter, the Act relating to it had been virtually re-
pealed by a duty imposed on the importation of ool-
kn Such, however, of the ancient Acts as it
was deemed expedient to keep in force, were specifi-
cally reserved in the several Acts of repeal. The
Bight Hon. Gentleman mentioned two cases of ex-
ception, one of which was, that provision which al-
lowed the foreign merchant, in disputed cases, %here
an appeal was to be had, a Jury composed of half'
foreigners. This was a concession made by Edward
111. in confirmation of the Great Charter; and cer-
tainly with reference to the extension of our corn-
Merce, and in order to invite foreign merchants to
hold confidence in us, there could not be a measure
more characteristic of the wisdom of the reign of that
great monarch. The great question here was, whe-
dser the existing laws required any amendment, and
if they did, whether or not the alterations proposed
were those most proper to be made. Against the re-
peal of those ancient laws much had been stated—
an alarm was raised—it was said that the great prin-
ciples of the Navigation Act under which the coun-
try so long flourished, had been compromised, and
that the Bills could not pass without great danger to
the country. If it was meant that a system of exclu-
sion, of severity, and restriction towards foreign
countries was the system to be acted on, he did not
agree that there was any alarm in the alteration. No
doubt, strictly speaking, foreigners had no right to
complain of the laws of this country. It was our
right to determine for ourselves what should be the
extent of our commercial relations with other coun-
tries, and under what limits we should carry them
on. But though the foreigners had no right to com-
plain of our law, they could certainly retaliate ; they
could return severity for severity, restriction for re-
striction, and exclusion for exclusion. The Legisla-
ture paid attention to the complaints of foreigners;
not because they admitted the least right of interfe-
rence, but because it was our own interest to leave no
ground for any indisposition on the part of foreign
countries to carry on relations with us upon the same
footing that we proposed to do with them. A free,
tr?cle was the most advantageous, if the other Powers
of Europe could be brought to concur in it—(Hear).
In every view of the subject it was most desirable to
attain it, and the necessity for taking steps for that
purpose was growing stronger every day. We already
felt the severe restrictions of foreign Powers—restric-
tions which were increasing every day. The mer-
chants and manufacturers were solicitous for it. AU
restrictions upon trade were as grievous to those who
laid them on, as upon those who were affected by
them. It was the wisest policy, then, to do away
with restriction;, so far as was safe and practicable,
or at least to shew a disposition to a free trade, and
to retrace the steps we have already taken—(Hear).
It was true that in a country like this, subjected to
an artificial system, every due protection should be
given to manufactures. He was not inclined to com-
promise the interests of manufacturers, but he thought
relaxation should be stretched to the utmost verge—
(Hear, hear).—The object of the Bill then was to re-
lax as far as possible; such relaxation was called for
by the change of circumstances. If the House would
only consider the'difference of situation of this coun-
try at the present time, to what it had been at the
making of the Navigation Act, they would see that
some modification of it was now called for. The
Navigation Act was passed in the reign of Charles 11.
and was directed mainly against the Dutch, with a
view to humble their commerce. This was wise at
the time, for the Dutch were a great and commer-
cial people, and our dangerous rivals. But things
had altered since. The Dutch were no longer formi-
dable, and the disadvantages attending our commerce
which these necessary restrictions imposed, should be
i etnoved as soon as possible. He was not aware how
far the shipping interest were disposed to go with
him in these plans, but he could assure them that no
man was a warmer friend to their best interests than
he was, and that they would best consult those inte-
rests by- concurring in this measure. He set a high
value upon the shipping trade of the country, because'
lie appreciated its importance. He would go as far
as any man in protecting it, but he would not favour
it at the expense of other interests. This principle
of exclusive protection had been carried rather too
far in the case of the shipping interest, and in very
many cases most unnecessarily—(Hear, hear).—
He felt that the support of the shipping interest was
essential to our national predominance. No nation
could support a respectable navy if it did not pos-
sess a flourishing. commerce. But then the prosperity
of commerce, on the other hand, depended a good
deal on the protection it received from our navy.—
Whilst, however, they derived this mutual support
from each other, there were cases in which commerce
might come in contact with navigation. In such
cases, he (Mr. Wallace) would- always prefer the in-
terests of the latter to the former, for the prosperity
of commerce must ever depend on the improved con-

shipping—(Hear, Ater).—The Naito.;
seemed to look upon the subject in the same
prohibiting the Dotch trade* commerce
was sacrificed to the interests of the ship.
laws were wise for the time in which

made, and they seemed to have answered
irposes for which they were intended;
namely, the suppression of the Dutch commerce.--
It was curious, however, to observe that as.the object
came to be attained, the restrictions necessary to it
were gradually modified. Since the days of Charles
the Second, the prevailing principle in commercial
legislation hail'been to relax the rigour of the navi-
gation laws It was a fact that in that time there
had been no less than 300 Acts of Parliament made
with that view—(Hear, hear).—Neither were these
relaxing Acts confined to any particular tracks of Eu.
rope, but extended to every part generally, and to
Asia and America. it was clear then that the prin•
ciple of relaxation was not new to our laws. It was
also clear that it was not prejudicial to our corn.
merce, as the flourishing state of commerce at this
day testified. It was clear that-it was not prejudi.
cial to the shipping interests, for the prosperity at
that too had increased. It was clear that it did not
set the interests of the shippers in competition with
the welfare of commerce, for our naval power and
commerce had gone hand in hand for the last five
'and twenty years. But it was said, the time was not
yet come for relaxing the Navigation Act. He could
not agree in this. It appeared to him that the time
was not only come, but that we ought to have set
about relaxing it before. Every nation in Europe
was becoming commercial, and they all seemed to
feel that they were bound to retaliate our restrictions
upon us—(Hear, hear).—France, Holland, Prussia,
and Russia were publishing prohibitions against our
goods, and the late Tariff of Russia left not a doubt
as to the policy which that country meant to adopt
towards us in commercial regulations. But did
any one suppose that this Tariff would be of so ex-
cluding a nature, if it was not called for by our re-
strictions? The conduct of Russia in this particular,
however, did not seem to be rightly understood. He
said so, because upon a late occasion when the House
were asked to impose duties upon Russia tallow, it
was said to be in retaliation for the conduct of that
Power. But it should not be forgotten, that we
were the aggressors in the article of high duties,
and that what Russia did was in her own defence.
—This country could not complain of the prohibi-
tions of Russia or any other country, for they did but
practice those lessons which we had taught them.—
And this furnished an additional reason why we
should act upon a more liberal principle, in the hope
of inducing other nations to follow our example—
(Hear, hear). Having thus stated the general objects
of the Bill, he would now proceed with the particu-
lar relaxations which were intended by it. The Bill
divided itself into two parts, the first applying to Eu-
ropean commerce, the second to the commerce of the
other parts of the world. With regard to the first, it
was intended to make one general law, applicable to
every part of Europe. By the Navigation Act no
goods could be brought to this country but in the
vessels of that State of which the goods were the
growth and produce, or in British ships. Now this
was intended to be relaxed so far as to allbw foreign
ships to import here from any place such goods as
happened to be_ at that. ort (it not being necessary
that the goods should be the growth of the country
in which the port was situated), provided always that
the ship was of, and belonged to that particular port,
or otherwise in British bottoms. Now this was a
considerable relaxation, but as the trade was not likely
to become habitual, it was not one from which any
danger might be apprehended. The preference of
-English ships would not be at all affected by it, for
as it was always possible to obtain a vessel belonging
to the country of which the goods were the produce,
it was only extending the competition which such ves-
sels might hitherto have had with British ships in that
particular port, a little more widely. He was net
aware that any objection would be raised to this part
of the plan. The next relaxation was as to particu-
lar parts of Europe, from ss hich, by the Act of Charles
H. certain specified goods could on no account be im-
ported into this country. It was unnecessary to say
that the places alluded to were the ports of the Ne-
therlands, and the articles thus prohibited included
almost the whole of the productions of that country.
The object was to cripple the trade of the Dutch, and
certainly it was a rational one when the law was
made. The reasons, however, which could justify it
bad long ceased to exist. The present Bill would put
the Netherlands, as to this country, upon the same
footing with the other parts of Europe—(Hear).—
That this would be a desirable measure was what he
(Mr. Wallace) was not only convinced of himself, but
he was borne out in thinking so by the evidence ad-
duced before the Committee on Foreign Trade. It
appeared to be the opinion of all the witnesses, that
the exclusion of the Dutch trade worked no good for
this country, but, on the contrary, tended very much
to embarrass the dealings of our merchants to that
part of Europe. But upon this particular some alarm
seemed so prevail, which, he hoped to spew, was
without foundation. Some Gentlemen seemed to
think that if the trade to Holland was thrown open,
goods might be imported here from the Mediterra-
nean, through that country, in a mariner prejudicial
to the shipping interests of our own. Tito ground of
this alarm was the mildness of the Dutch quarantine
laws, which were considerably less severe than those
of this country. Now, before he proceeded to _hew
that this could not haNien, lie meant to say a word
upon the quarantine laws. He was clearly of opi-
nion that our quarantine laws might be a good deal
relaxed. Surely there could be no danger in bringing
them to the same state as those of Holland, for what
was safe there would be safe here also--(Hear,kcar).
But to the importation from the Meditertanert.i. By
the 45th Geo.III. cap. 3, an Act made for regulating
the Quarantine Duties on all imported goods, a power
was given the King and Privy Council to exempt
from the operation of those duties such ports or places
as they thought fit. In consequence of this an Order
in Council was made in 1805, by which all ports and
places whatever were made subject to the operations
of the Act, except certain ports in the Mediterraneaa
excepted by name. These ports were the only excep-
tions made, and therefore, should the trade to Holland
be thrown open, the ports in that country would be
in no better condition as to the quarantine duties than
.any other whatever. The alarm then was groundless,
as no particular advantages could be &ind by im-

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come forsterd to set aside fore the House hustled, with several others,to' don Act seemed to
m a licenses which was No- , carry into effect a proposition which he had the hp- light ; for by prohi
Lry. lie hoPedthetommit. flour to submit at the chic of the last Session, foe generally was sacri
ill. question on commerce,
1 simplifying and amending the law relating to foreign ping. These laws
rose to put the
and extending and Improving our inter, they were made, a
11 1 course with foreign countries._ The
-present Bill was all the purposes