Star.
London, England, 1815-06-21 00:00:00

fees and venation reeeseild-spilte public offices, and
ppon such funds• it had been an old custom to assign
pensions for the compensation of retired Officers, or
as a reisunekititin to persons rendering some public
service in such departments. Upon the Poet Office,'
for instance,' between 6 and C7OOO a year were so
Charged. including an annuity of £3OOO to Mr. Pal-
mer. Bur it would seem from the strain of the
Learned Gentleman's observations, that the peasions
to which he referred were really smuggled cases
which noT" for the first time had come to light,
'hereas. the fatt was, that above SO such Pensions
bad been granted within 35 years, yet never annum:l-
ivened upon or pronounced illegal, although such
grants had come under the consideration of the Fi-
trance Committees of 1785 and 179.7. Nay! although
Public
grants had been noticed in the Committee on
Public Expenditure in 1801, of which the Honour-
able Mover was himself a Member, the subject had
Slot been brought under the consideration of the
House until the present moment. How came it then
that the subject had for nine years been allowed to
>lel) ? s and how came it also that although the Hon.
rl fiver's notice reel red only to one case, he had this
;tight brought' forward three cases ? But where, he
would ask, was the law, written or unwritten, that
forbid this mode of granting Pensions by the Crown?
The 41on9orable Mover had stated that those Pen-
sions were vittually granted out of the Civil List,
and that. beng granted without the previous consent
of that House, they involved a violation of Mr.
litsi-ke's mt. But 'he denied the Hon. Member's
fact, and his inference also. He denied his fact be-
ause those pensions were not granted out of funds
sucluded in the commutation of the Civil List, for
the hereditary revenue. But evep admitting his fact,
leis inference was incorrect ; for, according to Mr.
Burke's Act, the Crown was authorised to grant
Pensions out of the Civil List, to the amount of
495,000 a year; and the fact was,that up to February
last only £87,000 had been so granted—so that as
only the pension of Colonel Congreve, and £7OO a
year to that meritorious servant of the public, Mr.
Cooke— (Mar, hear, from Lord Castlereagh)—it
followed of course that Mr. Burke's Act had not
been in any degree violated, even supposing Colo.
Cringreve's Pension to have been granted
without the previous consent of that House.—
But in truth the prerogative of the Crown was ecn-
petene to order the allowance alluded to be granted
'to Colonel Congreve for his services in the Ordnance
DePartmest, in which department no other grant
had been nude for some time, but one to himself
(Mr. Ward), for which be did not think it necessary
to offer any justification, as he had made a sacrifice
by accepting otfice in that department. As to the
alleged illegality, however, of si:ch grants, it was evi.
dent from Mr. Perceval's Act of the 50th of the
Xing, that that allegation was unfounded. For this
.Act was avowedly brought forward and drawn up
to regulate office pensions, which of course was a
clear admission of the legality of such grants as those
under consideration. Bin it was obvious that the
order of the Crown with respect to the grant to Co-
Congreve, that it was made with the consent of
that House, for it was included in the ordnance esti-
SIMMS which were voted by the House; therefore it
appeared that the Honeurable,Mover's complaint
teas totally unfounded. Then as to the Honourable
Mover's reference to the Act of Anne, there was not
4.ne word in the order of the Crown addressed to the
Master General of the Ordnance which implied that
the pension to Colonel Congreve was granted during
Pleasure. OF course, this pension did not come at
ali within the meaning of that Act; for it was not
granted with any view to create undue influence upon
the mind of a Member of that Hose, but toremu-
sreirite eminent public services.
Sir J. BERESFO RD bore testimony to the great
bent fits which were derived from the use of Colonel
Congreve's rockets, ai he had himself witnessed in
actual service.
Mr H. MARTIN, in reply, stated that his reason
for abstaining from bringing forward any motion
earlier, respecting the particular pension which had
been alluded to, was because he thought the Report
of Cie Committee of Public Expenditpre would have
effectually checked all such grants ; but when be
found two other pensions granted of precisely a sirni.
lay description, he thought it right to bring the whole
subject under the notice of the House, lest the thing
ahotild at swell into an intolerable grievance.—
'With regard to the Post Office Revenue, that was
distinctly commuted upon the accession of his present
Majesty, and the Crown therefore had no tight to
charge pensions upon it. As to what had fallen from
the light Honourable Gentleman respecting the ap.
plication to that Houie in the way of estimate, for
its concurrence, if he was correctly informed, that
pension had been paid to the individual IColoneh
Congreve) for at least ten years out of different of-
fices, and which they were now called upon to con-
tinue. He apprehended, however, that the constitu-
tional way of granting a pension was not by foisting
it into an estimate, but by a message from the Crown.
TheAight Honourable Gentleman said that the seat
of Colorttl Congreve in that House was trot affeetpti
by his pension, cause it did not come within she
meanuig of the statute of Anne ; but upon that point,
and especially the latter, he differed from the Right
Honourable Gentleman. What was the intention of
she Parliarneut that passed that Act ? To prevent
she ettension of the influence of the Crown—net
surely so• far only as related to granting pensions
from tire Civil List, but in every other way. Was it
probable indeed that Parliament would leave the
crown in possession of numerous offices, with the
power to grant pensions upon those offices in any
manner except ttoot the hereditary revenue ?. He
apprehended, therefore, that the Right Hon. Gentle-
man was a little incorrect in his 'hew of the effeCt•
which, the pension ought to have Upon the seat of
01111'nel Conyers.
The House then divided, when the numbers were;
'Ayes 13—Noes 71. • ' ' •"
• . Trig watt.
The PEIANCELLPR of the EXCIAQUER
moved. that' the elder of the day for continuing the
adjourned.dehate Upon the alpha of the Bank should
1;e reid.'for 'the pnrposet Of further'pestponing it, as'
he had. not 'la had tiMe to obtain and. egenvine .all
the nettestary paperys• •
After' I few wvOrd from Mr. Paeurer,c, who ex
deitia h* wilt og; neai to defer the discussidn to any
bo cciavenient to the Ripigt Honour-
Q. t!!ti
"L :s, • • !:. t 4.1 I%

•
able Iffentlesto it trio Wiped to Thattdoy seen-
night. '
'ovum* Sol*
Mr. MARSH rose porsumit to notice, to move
that he petition of Mr. Fink late his Mbjesty's At-
try-General in the prOvince of Upper Canada, be
referred to a Select Committee, to inquire into its al-
legations,
and report thereon. He said he should cog-
tent himself with merely stating the circumstances of
the petition, and leaving it to the judgment of the
House to determine upon what course ought to be
pursued. He begged leave, however, to say, that
he was in no manner influenced by the feelings which
actuated the Petitioner, who was goaded and stung,
no doubt, by a deep sense of injuries which he be-
lieved himself to have sustained. Who was the Peti-
tioned ? Not an obscure, not an ignorant individual,
not a person who, from his condition in society, or
his conduct, was likely to be disaffected to the Go-
vernment, but a gentleman educated to the bar in
this country and selected by the Crown as a fit per-
son to execute the duties of an: important legal ap-
poiatment in one of our most important Colonies.—
He understood that he owed his appointment to the
late Mr. Windham, a patronage which, of itself, was
sufficient to confer no mean dignity. He understood,
trom the petition, that Mr. Firth went out in 1808,
at a considerable expence, to take possession of his
office. Shortly alter his arrival, Governor Gore
thought proper to let loose a number of petty vexa-
tions against Mr. Firth, and which continued during
the last two years iif his residence in that Province.
Those minor persecutions were not indeed exactly
specified in the Petition, but it did not require any
very deep knowledge of human nature to kieiw that
the combined effect of a series of petty mortifications,
incessantly repeated, was often as great and greater
than that produced by persecutions of greater magni-
tude and severity. It did appear, however, that the
grievances complained of, were not all of that minor
get rid of the
description. A plan was devised to
of
the
:by Gov
Attorney-General, by depriving him
emolu-
ments of his office, and hi order to accomplish this
he was prevented
errfor Gore, from carrying
on various public prosecutions, by which his income
was diminished one-sixth, and all the dignity and
efficiency of his office abolished. Another mode of
persecuting was also resorted to. When, from some
peculiar circumstances in which the province hap.
pened to be placed, no servants, except soldiers,
could be procured, a special exemption of the Attor-
ney. General, as entitled to a servant of that descrip-
tion, was made by Governor Gore, and he was re-
duced to tl:e necessity of performing all the menial
offices and drudgery of domestic life himself. Here
again he begged to remind the House that he did not
state those things as facts, but merely as allegations
contained in the petition brought forward by a man
who had held a high station, and prima foie, there-
fore entitled to belief. They were such, in his opi-
nion as ought to produce enquiry, not only that
the Character of General Gore might be vindicated,
if he was innocent, but that the shame and disgrace
of having made such allegations, might fall with ten-
fold aggravation upon the head of their author, if
they were false. There was another most important
charge in the petition, in so far as it went to the de-
claration of a serious change having been introduced
into the administrative justice of the country. It ap-
-1 peared that a very mysterious case of child-murder
had occurred in that province, into w:iich the Aftor-
, ney General thought it his duty to enquire; but,
during the prelimiaary investigation which he insti-
tuted, General Gore interfered, and expressing his
aversion to the enquiry, ordered it to be st • d.—
In consequence of that proceeding, and be ' g .'' dos
inoroimu
worn out and wearied with those multiplied. •
tions, Mr. Firth applied for leave to return to Eng-
land, which was not granted ; but his residence in
the Province became so utterly impossible, that he
was obliged to leave the country without obtaining
the consent of Government, and he now applied to
the justice and compassion of that House for redress.
Such were the allegations contained in the petition,
and they were of a description which must make Ge-
neral
Gore himself, and his friends, anxious for an
enquiry, that they might be repelled, if unfounded.
In presenting the petition to that House, he had re.
luctantly undertaken a Task which he was far from
seeking, because it was an unpleasant thing to ap-
pear as the accuses of any man, without knowing all
the nietits of a case. Ile had, however, long been
atquainted with the petitioner, and he could vouch
for his general. honour and integrity of character ;
and he sloiuld have been subject to the reproach of
his own feelings and conscience, if he had deserted
an old and early friend by refusing to present his pe-
tition when he stated that lie had been seriously ag-
grieved. He should conclude with moving that the
praitien be referre,l to a Committee.
Tne question being put,
Sir J. BE RESFOR U spoke strongly in behalf of
General Gore's character and conduct, both as Go-
vernor of Bermuda, and in his present station. On
his (Sir J. Beresford's) arrival in this country. he
was asked if he knew any reason why Governor Gore
had dismissed the Attorney-General ? and his answer
was, that before be left America there was not a voice
in that country which did not say that Governor Gore
had done right, and that it was impossible the colony
could go on with such an Attorney-General. He
was sure General Gore had acted from the =Who-
nourable motives.
Mr. W. SMITH said he could not support the
motion for inquiry, and he would state his reasons.
why he could not. - With respect to the petitioner, he
knew him well and long ; he believed him to be a
man of strict integrity, and he wasstue the petition did
not contain a single allegation but what be believed
to be well founded. When he returned from Canada,
:he requested him (Mr. Smith) to ley a memorial be.
fore the Secretary of State, which, after reading it,
he did, together with as strong a recommendation as
,he felt himself justified in using. That memori •al
procured to him a certain degree of relief as to cer-
tails points which were urged in it : but that relief
did not satisfy him, and hee-then requested him to
present his petition to the House. Upon looking
into the petition, however, and finding the allegations
extremely vague, and Many of them such.as mast
have existed in the imagination only of the ; ; pet.t.oner,
lie told him Ile peld not undertake to present, it, un-
less he also felt disposed to move something
iinpeachMent against the Secretary
of State, for not
.
paying more attention to the first memorial, which he
s
cqtainly was not inclined do. to
~.
...
~..Upon thee grans*,
. ,

therefore, he should feel it his duty to rit 140
motion. .
Mr. FORBES ought that there were abundant
grounds for an inquiry, and was proceeding to press
the necessity of similar investigations into the con-
duct of certain Governors in India, when
The SPEAKER called the Honourable Gentle-
man to order.
Mr. FORBES apologized, and concluded by ex-
pressing his concurrence in the motion.
Mr. GOULDBORN said, that he could by no
means accede to the proposition of the Honourable
mover. If such unsupported accusations were listened
to by Parliament, they would soon have nu other
business. He by ,no means disputed the integrity of
Mr. Firth, but there was nothing on the face rf the
petition which demanded the interference of Parlia-
ment. • Governor Gore had been selected by Mr.
Windham, when Secretary of State, to go from Ber-
muda to Upper Canada, which, at that time, was in
a state of great tumult and confusion, and the reduc-
tion of which to order he effected with the utmost
ability. Adverting to the charge against Governor
Gore of sheltering a person who had been guilty of
child murder, he :toted the circurnstancesof the case,
in the course of which it appeared that the individual
implicated had proved a complete alibi, and had,
therefore, been discharged. With respect to the sub-
sequent proceedings in the province, he maintained
that the petitioner had suffered from his own impru.
deuce, and that the petitioo.proceeded simply from
his irritation at having been deprived of office in
conieque ice.
Mr. P. MOORE stated, that the petitioner was
ready with witnesses to prove all the allega:ions in the
petition. Were he in Governor Core's situ ttion, he
should strenuously urge his friends to institute au in-
quiry into his conduct. The case of Mr. Firth was
nonsingular. He bad in his possession a variety of
other cases. Among them was one of a Gentleman,
Mr. Wyatt, who was almost as dear to him as a son.
Mr. Wyatt had been appointed Surveyor General of
the province of Upper Canada, and by his commis.
sion was rendered wholly independent of the Gover-
nor, being directed to communicate immediately with
the Treasury. Mr. Wyatt had gone on for a consi-
derable time in surveying the province, and in .the
more difficult task, the location of it, when
Sir C. BURRELL spoke to order. The Honour-
able Member was going into statements which shad
nothing to do v itfi the question before the House.
The SPEA R observed, that in strict order the
Honour:Jc Member must conflux himself to the al-
legatiots of the pe.ition.
Mr. P. MOOR E resumed. He said, that it ap-
peared, that when Governor Gore arrived in Upper
Canada, all was harmony and conciliation, hut that
shortly after the different public Officer: were turned
out to make way for persons of his selection. Tons
Mr. Firth was replaced by a youth. Mr. Wyatt
having refused to appoint a Deputy of the Gayer-
nor's choosing, was dismissed in three days. The
Governor made every effort to reduce his govern-
stunt to a simple despotism. The Judge, the Actor.
ney-General, the Sheriffs all suffered. Even the
Speaker of the Lower House had been intimid iced,
that, on a proposition for an Address to remove the
Govrnor, he gave the casting vote in favour of the
Governor, an occurrence which he (Mr. Moore)
thought would not have happened in the British Par-
liament. There was another instance--(urder.)
The SPEAKER reminded the Honourable Gen-
tleman chat he must coofine himself to the question
before the House.
Mr. P. MOORE concluded by observingohat it
was for the honour of Governor Gore that an inquiry
should be instituted.
Lord CASTLEREAGH concurred with his
Honourable Friend near him in the opinion, that no
case of this nature should be gone into, except where
such corruption or oppression appeared as called for'
the high jurisdiction of Parliament. The case had
been successively before three Secretaries of State,
himself, Lord Liverpool, and Lord Bathurst, who
all entertained the same opinion of the high charac-
ter of Governor Gore, and of the unsupported cha-
racter of the charges adduced against him. With
respect to Mr. Wyatt,-in advising his removal from
Upper Canada in consequence at his differences with
the Governor, he had accompanied that advice to the
Treasury with a representation that there was nothing
whatevet in that Gentleman's conduct which ought
to prevent his being employed in some other Colony.
If Parliament were to be continually called upon to
inquire into all the little cases of difference arising in
the Colonies, no Governor could return to this coun-
try without the occurrence of a multitude of applica-
tions similar to the present.
Mr. BENSON bore testimony to the high cha-
racter ut Governor %bre, and read the Address of
the two Houses of Upper Canada on his quitting dab
Government.
Mr. GORDON stated, that he had in his poses&
:ion a letter in'the hand-writing of the Noble Lotd,
in which he expressed himself perfectly satisfied with
Mr. Wyatt's conduct.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said that he was per-
fectly satisfied with Mr.Wyates conduct so -his
tion, but that he thought his conduct towards the
Governor ill judged, to say the least of it.
Mr. MARSH, in the course of a short reply, ob-
served, that he had never heard until that moment
that Mr. Firth's petition had been offered to the
Member for Norwich, the suffrage of whose intelli-
ent mind against it almost shook his own opinion.
Still., however, he maintained, that if any one Mem-
ber in the House entertained sentiments unfavourable
to Governor Gore, it would be to the Governor's ho-
nour to have the case fully investigated.
Tltemotion was then negatived without a division.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER
gave notice, that on Friday he would move to refer
the Report of the Committee on the Civil List to the
Committee of Supply.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed
of, and the House adjourned.

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