Star.
London, England, 1813-05-14 00:00:00

~..

f the House ; much more justlyl/2had they to com-
'lain of the spirit with which it had been opposed.
end of the temper displayed in the discussion. If
hey were called upon to deliberate as- to the inexpe-
diency and,impolicy of an exclusive system of consti-
:utiopal rights and privileges, the question was forced
ipon them even the necessity of discussing it was in
tself a grievance—and they ought, in his opinion, to
:ome to the consideration of the subject with the same
Feelings and dispositions, as they would to the consi-
deration of anyother grievance—with a eiew..to remove
It. For his own part, he could-never allow that this
exclusive principle was an integer part of the British
Constitution. It was indisputably a deviation from
the general rule, and should be defended upon its own
grounds, not as forming a part of the Constitution.
It should not be classed amongst those great prin-
ciples and privileges of which the free people of this
country were so justly proud, nor defended upoo, any
inferences drawn from the Bill of Rights, or justified
as inherent in the nature of our excellent Constitution.
The existence of such a principle of exclusion was an
evil irreconcilable with any notions of well regulated,
freedom—it put a distinction between whole classes
Of individuals composing the population of one and
the same State—it went to destroy that harmony and
unanimity which are so essential to the well-being of
every nation—it produced a degradation of one class
pf the community to palter to the pride of another—
and checking the moral improvement and intellec-
tual cultivation of the degraded class, generated a
sense of injury and a feeling of depression in their
'minds, incompatible with the quiet and prosperity of I
the empire. Unfortunately it was not now for the
first time that the Irish people had to complain of
such a grievance—it had attached to them from the
earliest times of their connection with this country,
and was closely interwoven in every period of their
history ; it had gathered strength in its progress, till
the revolution of 1688 broke the pride of Ireland, and
consummated the oppression which had been ace,*
tnulating for ages. The violence of those domestic
quarrels which at that period distracted the country
gave rise to the exclusive system, which, whilst it
stiffed opposition for the moment, embittered future
hostility—took away the rights of a whole people—
Ind left behind an endless source of disquietude, in
the afflicting sense of injuries received, disappointed
hopes, and vengeance unsatisfied and unappeased.
The result of the conflict had been on-one side, total
defeat—on the other, unqualified triumph ; and as
the consequences of such a state of things had been
Continued through a series of national heartburnings
and grievances to the present time, it was the duty
of Parliament by a generous policy and a wise legis
lation to endeavour to heal those distractions which
had so long been the bane of the prosperity of that
country, and not to listen to the counsels of those
who appeared to tremble lest the odious distinction
should be removed. They should not allow the
spirit of such a system to be transfused into the gene-
rous principles of their free Constitution, nor attempt
to hang up the bloody spoils of a suffering people
upon the altar of a holy religion. This was all owing
to that fatal watch-word of division, Protestant As-
cendancy. If by these words were meant an ascen-
dancy in the enactment of wise laws, or the practice
of a humane religion, no man would more gladly
embrace a watch-word which, by enforcing impartial
justice, would establish a feeling of benevolence to-
wards all classes of subjects, and a spirit of loyalty
towards the Sovereign. The laws, however, as they
now stood, were a perpetual insult to the Catholics
and standing reproach to the Protestants. He knew
the importance that was now attached to this ques-
tion, and was glad that the attention of Parliament
and of the country had been so strongly directed to
its consideration-; but unless the distinction should be
done away, he could not but fear that as long as a
vindictive spirit may exist, it would be vain to hope
that it should not be exasperated by a feeling of a se-
cret malignity ; and it would be impossible to im-
prove, to soften, or to ameliorate the tempers of men,
whilst they were liable to feel such a spirit rankling in
their bosoms. The excluded class would be as a
barren spot, to which, whilst all around was clothed
with luxuriant vegetation, the effects of cultivation
could not extend. If at any time the Government
should determine to slight the claims of this great
Body, they would inevitably spread a principle of dis-
wisfaction throughout the whole, and make that a
rallying point for every species of discontent—for
every description of public grievance—for every minor
denomination of popular suffering and indignation.
To prevenuthis state of things they must get rid of
the master grievance. They should abjure the prin-
ciple of exclusion by which the Irish Catholics were
debarred the possession of their civil and political
rights. He knew that this system was supported by
authorities which he respected ; but he could not but
consider it a violation of the principle of Eleition
that they should nut be admitted into that House.
That principle required that the Representatives
should be chosen from the Body of the Electors. If
it was contended that the Roman Catholics were a
people that would not obey the laws, he should not
make that a charge upon them ; but say it was an
effect of the system ; and the great cause of it was,
that they felt no identity with the State. Restore to
them the feeling of a common interest with their fel-
low-subjects—let them but find themselves once ad-
mitted within the pale of the Constitution when they
can look upon the acts of the Legislature as so many
laws issuing from their own body through their own
Representatives, and then no class or description of
subjects will yield a mere ready obedience to the
laws. This country had, during the course of its
connection with Ireland, attained an eminent state of
prosperity, in commerce, in manufactures, in every
art of peace and of war. Ireland too had during the
same period her variety, but it consisted in the supe-
rior intensity of suffering and the increased severity
of inflictions. It was peculiarly unfortunate that
those periods of our history to which England looked
with so much pride should have been to Ireland the
sources only of shame. Let them but go back to the
reign of Elizabeth or the Protectorate, which, in the
atrocity of its cruelties, exceeded any record of former
times—let them contemplate the era of the reforma-
tion—of the revolution—of the reign of Anne—of
the accession of the illustrious House of Hanover—
and of the rebellion in 1745, and they would find
that they were all periods of degradation to the Irish
Catholic people. It had been said that they already
possessed the elective franchise, the right of serving

on grand juries, and various other important pri-
vileges, but these considerations proved rather that
they ought to be admitted to the full enjoyment of
every other constitutional privilege since they had
enjoyed. so many without any danger to the State.
Was it conformable to any known principle of pad•
cal science to reject from its defence—to separate
from its interests—a fourth part of the population of
the Empire ? Let the existing circumstances be re-
' versed. Let it be supposed that the Catholics predo-
minated over the Protestants, and not the Protestants
ever the Catholics. Let it be supposed that the Ca-
tholics in that case would have exercised towards the
Protestants the same severity that the Protestants
had actually exercised towards the Catholics, that
they would have enforced the same restrictions.—
What would have been the result ? What an ex-
tinction of individual and national glory I How
many great and transcendent names would have
been swept from the annals of the empire I Desti-
tute would we have been of that moral and intellec-
tual light shed for so many years over us by a Burke.
Destitute should we have been of that military re-
nown which a Wellington had achieved for hie coun-
try, while 4ghting the battles of liberty and inde-
pendence in the Peninsula. The genius, the wit, the
eloquence of a Sheridan would have been unknown.
That House would never have heard the brilliant and
unrivalled display of talents by which a Right Hon,
Gentleman opposite to him (Mr. Plunket)-had on a
recent occasion electrified it. That venerable voice
(Mr. Grattan's) which was first raised in Ireland to
break the fetters of oppression, which had since been
raised io this country to prosecute the great work of
emancipation, and which he trusted would soon in-
dulge in tones of exultation at the ultimate triumph
of that sacred cause, to the accomplishment of which
its earliest and its latest efforts had been devoted,
would for ever have remained silent—( Hear, hear.)—
To deny to the Catholics of Ireland the privileges
which they required, would be to leave them with
beating and struggling hearts—it would be to array
one conflicting principle against'another—it would be
to set human nature in opposition to itself. Impo-
tent indeed, he trusted, would be the contest, as it
respected the security of the empire—hut though it
might leave our security untouched, it could not fail
materially to injure our happiness. To deny to the
Catholics of Ireland the privileges which they requi-
red, would be to allow them to retain the means of
harm, ana to deprive them of all incentive to good.
It would be to abandon them to all "the tumults of
rage, and to put them in possession of the engines of
vengeance. It would be to bind the strong man, but
to leave his locks unshorn—(Hear, hear, hear.) It
had been said by the Learned Doctor, as it had often
been said before, that oaths were not considered by
the Catholics as binding. How happened it then that
in a Court of Justice the oath of a Catholic was taken
against a Protestant ? How happened it then that
the treaty of Westphalia, the contracting parties to
which were composed of Catholics and Protestants,
and which the Pope had expressly declared to be nu-
gatory, was signed by the Catholics, the Protestants
being aware that such had been the Papal declara-
tion, and that it had remained inviolate until the
French Revolution ? As one proof that the Learned
Doctor was erroneous in his estimate of the modern
Catholic character—as one proof that it was not so
replete with bigotry and intolerance as it had been
described to be, he would read the affecting declara-
tionsof a virtuous and distinguished Catholic, taken
from his dying mouth—a man who had evinced the
most sincere attachment to the Sce of Rome, and
who died a martyr to that attachment. The words
were to the following effect-4, I lament the error of
my brethren who have departed from the Catholic
faith, but I pretend not to judge them—and I trust
that the same Jesus CURIST to whom I look for re-
mission of my own sins, will extend bis forgiveness
to theirs." This was a passage which occurred in
the last will of Louis XVI. Such was Catholic bi-
gotty—such was Catholic intolerance—(Hear, hear.)
Adverting to the case of the venerable Lord Staf-
ford, he described the various circumstances by which
it was attended, and then asked, if a Catholic Judge,
a Catholic Bishop, and Catholic witnesses, had acted
towards a Protestant, as a Protestant Judge, a Pro-'
testant Bishop, and Protestant witnesses, had acted 1
towards a Catholic, what the Gentlemen opposite
would have said ? As the case stood they ascribed
the events to which he had alluded to the spirit of the
times. Had it been as he for a moment supposed,
they would have ascribed them to the spirit of Po-
pery—(Hear, hear.) To him the inquiry into the
principles of former periods appeared worse than use-
less on such a question as that before the House.—
Why on a subject, the merits of which depended on
the ever-varying fluctuations of opinion, recur to the
history of the middle ages ? Why ransack the graves
of men long since forgotten ? Why recall the me-
mory of crimes which ought to be buried in oblivion ?
Why turn the attention of the House to acts, long
past, the wickedness of which was surpassed by their
absurdity ? He protested against a decision on such
grounds. But it seemed that the Bill did not provide
the attainment of all the objects which it professed
to seek. He would not enter into its details. He
felt incompetent to enter into them ; and at any rate
that was a discussion which would with more pro-
priety take place on a future occasion. But gene-
rally speaking, he confessed it appeared to him that
the Bill was admirably calculated for the accomplish-
ment of its purpose. It proceeded on the fundamental
principle that the Constitution of the country was es-1
sentially Protestant—that the Government, that the
Sovereign of the country ought to be Protestant. So
long as the Government, so long as the Sovereign
was Protestant, so-long would the Protestant Consti-
tution be secure. For his part he could not conceive
it possible that it had entered into the heart of any
man who had supported the Bill to separate our civil
from our religious Government. Never was there a
more desperate imagination, if such a proceeding
had indeed been imagined. Never was wisdom more
wise than that which sought to render the union in-
dissoluble. Nothing could be more admirable than'
those establishments by which the Protestant priest-
hood of this Empire were nurtured from there first
entrance into the temple of knowledge, until their
admission into the more holy sanctuary of the Church.
In those establishments the purity of childhood was
mingled with the vigour of youth and the wisdom of
more advanced life. It was to the , Protestant esta-
blishment, any attempt to touch which he had depre-
cated, that the empire was indebted for the vigilant

survey over the whole range of thou noble inctitu.
tions by which they were maintabsed in undiminished
excellence. Every thing should be,studiously avoided
by which its integrity might be endangered, or which
should prevent the Legislature from doing that which
,he was sure was the wish, as it was the duty of every
' man who heard him, naately, to transmit it to poste-
rity sae and unimpaired. (Hear, hear.) When he
heard so much said, however, of the necessity of se-
curities for the Protestant establishment, he owned
that he thought it a very ill compliment to the Mem-
bers of our own Church. It appeared to him as if
those who were so much alarmed on the occasion
thought that the passing of the Bill was to give die
death-blow to the vigilance and zeal of :he Protestant
Church. That vigilance and that zeal had, he con-
ceived, been pretty well manifested in the petitions
from the members of the establishment, which had
been presented to Parliament on the subject before
them. He was far from blaming the' petitioners.—
One of those petitions had proceeded from the Uni-
versity of Cambridge, for which, as the place of his
education, he felt the most reverential affection. That
and other bodies of a similar kind bad an undoubted
right to guard to the utmost of their power the Pro-
testant establishment, and to keep a vigilant eye over
every hostile circumstance by which it might to them
appear to be threatened. But from this very diligence
and zeal he derived his 'firm hope, that the passing of
the Bill before them would in no way affect the secu-
rity of the Protestant Church. The shrine was safe
as long :is the lamps by which it was surrounded
continued to burn so brilliantly. ( Hear, hear.) There
was nothing, in his opinion,in the tenets of catholicism
which rendered it unsafe to admit Catholics to a par-
ticipation of civil privileges. If indeed such dangers
were to be compared, he had no doubt which would
be found to preponderate. What was the descripticift
of danger of which the House had that night heard ?
The influence of the Pope ! Let it be allowed that
that influence had ever been tried on the Irish people
—let it be allowed that it might again be tried—at
what period did Parliament think the papal appeal
more likely to be effectual—when the great miss of
Irish population felt degraded and humbled by the
destitution of the privileges enjoyed by their Protes-.
tant countrymen, or when they were inspired with a
sense of their own value by the acquisition of their
just rights ? Were hardships and deprivations, or com-
forts and enjoyments likely to be the better antidotes
to such danger as that apprehended by the Learned
Doctor ? It was true that he could conceive the exis-
tence
of other causes of alarm than papal influence.
He could conceive, barely conceive, the possible exis-
tence of Catholic preponderance in the Privy Council.
He would even conceive the preponderance of Catho-
licism in the breast of the Sovereign. But even in
such a case would Parliament slumber ? Would there
not be in reserve the whole nation drawn up behind
the Legislature, in defence of their religious establish.
ments ? Would not the members of the Church and
of the various sects diffused throughout the country
unite in maintaining the various and powerful holds
of Protestant Christianity ?—Did it not then appear
that the danger of refusing the Catholic claims was
not uncertain but existing ' • not remote, but present ?
But it was said that the Catholics would not be satis-
fied with the Bill. Unquestionably it would be very
delightful if it should be received by them in the
same spirit as that in which, lie trusted, it would be
passed by the Legislature. But even if any local and
temporary irritation existed, or was expected to exist
on the subject, what effect ought that to have on the
deliberations of Parliament ? The injuries,the wrongs,
and the sufferings of Ireland remained the same.—
The rights of the Irish people remained the tame.
The principles by which the Legislature ought to be
infltienced remained the same.—Besides, if the intuit.
diate effect of the Bill were not conciliatory and ad-
vantageous, it was not in the nature of things that it
should not ultimately prove so. Was it possible to
imagine, that after the passing of the Bill the Catho-
lic would refuse any commission in the army—that
he would decline advancement in the military or
legal professions, that he would voluntarily exclude
himself from a seat in Parliament ? It was impossi-
ble, and it was equally impossible but that a great
improvement in the moral character of the Irish must
eventually take place. Let Parliament, therefore,
proceed, neither startled by its own fears, nor check-
ed by the disapprobation of those whose disapproba-
tion it would deserve. Let the Legislature persevere
in repairing the wrongs which Ireland had sustained.
He used the word o persevere," because it was gra-
tifying to reflect that in the reign of his present Ma-
jesty the liberties of Iteland had commenced—in the
reign of his present Majesty he trusted they would be
consummated. No more indelible record could be
preserved to the glory of a Monarch than the estab-
lishment of the freedom of his subjects.—(Hear!
—And at what a moment was this measure of conci-
liation and union proposed ! At a moment when all
Europe was striving to throw off the yoke of the most
degrading tyranny that had ever been exercised over
human nature—at such a moment was it fitting that
Englandshould refrain from availing herself of every
possible means of assisting the common cause. To
her, indeed, the contest was fraught with consequen-
ces the most serious and important. The nations of
the Continent were engaged in a struggle of the in-
stant. With us it was only a part of a protracted and
systematic resistance. We had no retreat—we must
push the combat to the utmost extremity. To other
nations it might be permitted to remain insignificant,
contemptible, and secure ; Great Britain could be
safe only while the bird of victory flapped its wings
around her throne and her altars.—(Hear, hear !)-
-To be secure at home% we must be conquerors
abroad ; and to be conquerors abroad, we must re-
move all dissatisfaction—we must remove every se-
cret obstacle which might check the circulation,
and chill the warmth, of the life-blood of the Em-
pire. If they were to be told of the sudden acces-
sion of four million's of men to the strength of the
country ; would they not consider such an occur-
rence as a special interference of PROVIDENCE ?
This was offered to them—and would they refuse
it ? Would they refuse that treasure which was
richer than all the gold of the earth ? It had been
the boast of Lord Chatham that he had sought for
virtue among the mountains of Scotland, and that
he had found it. Let them seek for it amidst the
mars'tes of Ireland, and they would as surely find it.
How many individuals were at that moment in
existence whose only demand was to be rendered use-
ful to their country ? How many men of genius and

valour who panted but to be employed in her defence'
Would Parliament reject such prokrred aid ? Would
they allow such beings to fly to a foreign Court, there
to be received with transport as an invaluable tre.,-
number
olifol nicffis-.
sure---a treasurse in comparison with which the
richest subsidies that this country could offer were
worthless ? And yet such was at present the case.
ertrya Generals,, who were and a
Irish Catholics.
was a fact that there were at that moment in the
cAerusstcslansu
bannordyintahti
Guilt and shame must certainly attach to any coun-
try that could thus refuse to avail itself of the services
of its sons. Was it possible to contemplate their
state without emotion ? Did they not sometimes
mingle tears of bittey regret with the exultation of
military renown ? Brooding over the recollection of
earlier days, must they not lament that they could
never be called to defend their native land—muse
they not larnirft that though they might die the deal)*
of a hero, they were forbidden by their country to
die the death of a patriot ? ( Hear, hear.) Material
also was it in the decision upon this question to con.
sider the condition of the English Catholics, whose
patriotism and loyalty had long secured to them the
approbation of the Empire. Among them were
many persons descended from the most illustrious
ancestors, whose names were associated with tl.c
brightest passages in the page of British history, and
who had been distinguished with honour by the Sn.
vereign, and with admiration and gratitude by the
people for their services to the country, before to
'serve his country became a crime in a C itholic.—
iJfear.)—What must be the feelings of the descert-
ants of those illustrious men, when on the very
threshold of existence ? However ardent their bene-
volence, however elevated their genius, they were
driven from the course of generous and patriotic
competition—they were sent to pass life joyless, silent,
and obscure—and they were compelled to transmit
their ignoble inheritance to their unhappy posterity.
• .--(Hear, hear, hear.)—What must be the feelings
of a father, conscious of the growing talents of a be.
loved son. but conscious also that the bloom of his
youth and the vigour of his manhood must be alike
unprofitably expended ? He implored the House to
terminate such painful sensations ; he implored them
to listen to the voice of nature, which in this as in
most other instances was the voice of policy ; he im-
plored them to abandon a system pregnant only with
private sorrow and public calamity.—(Hear, hear.)
Some wise and good men had contemplated the pos-
sible arrival of a period at which, by mutual benevo-
lence and concession, the Catholic and the Reformed
Church might approximate to a reconciliation. He
knew not if there were any symptoms of such a
happy event existing, but unquestionably it was an
anticipation of the most pleasing and virtuous kind.
Let Parliament perform their part towards this good
work—let them exhibit true Christian forbearance.—
If such an object could be accomplished, then might
this empire indeed boast of a Constitution which
combined within itself the soundest principles of vi-
tality and happiness—which, without sacrificing any
of the important interests of the State, soothed add
united in its defence all descriptions of men—which,
preferring its own religious faith, because it felt it to
be the noblest and the best, abstained from hostility
against the religious faith of others; which grounded
its religious belief on truth ; and recongnised the
principle that charity and truth ought always to be
identified ; which admitted that every mode ot faith
as long as it revolved round the grand illumina:iag
center of Christianity, should be permitted to do so
unmolestedly ; and that the whole should be so col-
, stituted as to afford an example of that harmony by
which the great system of the universe WAS so de-
lightfully modulated.-(Hear, hear.)
Sir FREDERICKOOD said, the proper time
for discussing the merits of the Bill would be, when
the House went into a Committee on it. He ridi-
culed the idea of the necessity of going all round the
world for information on the subject. It was due to
those gallant men who were shedding their blood, both
in the Arn and in the Navy, that this measure should
pass for their benefit and relief. The Right Hon.
Gentleman, (Dr. Duigenan) Judge ot the Preroga-
tive Court of Ireland, and Vicar-General of four Dio--
ceses, had himself married a Catholic; and he (Sir
F. Flood) was rather surprised that he &iould have
been so severe on a body of men, nut of wh.ri he had
selected a seaman as a rain/Ik, and who had been the
solace of his life for many years.—( Loud latighing.)—
He contended, that no securities were necessary, for
be knew very many Catholic Gentlemen with estates
of from 6 to £30,000 a year, and who would nor,
therefore, be very ready to risk their property by en-
gaging in plots against the Goveinment. He hoped
to see all invidious distinctions done away among the
English, Trish, Scotch, and Welch.
Lord CASTLE REACH began by observing, that
although his vote was undoubtedly pleoged to the sup-
port of the second reading of the Bill on the table; and
although the Committee would form the proper stage
for entering into an investigation of details, yet he trust-
ed the indulgence of the House might be extended to-
wards him' *whilst betook a general view ol those points
in which heshould cordially concur with the Right Hoc.
Gentleman (Mr. Grattan), as well as those in which he
could not entirely acquiesce. He was not desirous,
therefore, of dwelling on, or inviting the attenti,a of
the House to those considerations of expediency appli-
cable to the fundamental principles on which the B
ll
proceeded, particularly after the review taken by that
principle by his Hon. Friend (Mr. C. Grant) in a vein
of such glowing eloquence ; and was happy to think,
that, while there prevailed this sort of unanimity in fir,t
principles, it was not probable that minor and sithr:-
dinate arrangements should create any insurmounta
obstacles or differences oropinion. He should co,.
therefore, offer his view in 'this stage, rather than el
the Committee, that such explanations might bo
mzde as might lead to an accommodation betweri
himself and those persons to whom this Bill appeared
in the same important and necessary point of vies%
He approved of the discretion and delicacy of tie
framers of the Bill, and thought they had done thcl
duty in not referring to him in the first instance.--
Anxious as 'he was to give all the assistance in his
power to this momentous measure, yet from differenc.e,
of political views. any intercourse between Itimse-i
and those Gentlemen might not have been useful.--
He felt it, however, to be proper to offer now a on-
did exposition of his principles : he might, perh4Ps,
suggest something which they might be disposed to
adopt in their great object of conciliating disigreetng
interests. It was difficult to approach t!,:e existing