Star.
London, England, 1813-03-30 00:00:00

5 0
Indies, but should ba* * principal ri
'.country, where justice twit be readily
responsible for the money placed in the
sttbsritute. On these grounds. he must
part of the prlscnr measure.
Mr. PONSONBY eiplained.
Sir J. NE WPO la observed, that th.

Ireland, particularly those connected
Justice, were not so much objection
of the sums they took out of the pock. is
as that they stood in the way of imp:o'
Mr. H. THORNTON contended,
meats of the Noble Lord (Castlereagh,
to support the recommittal of the Bill,
witted that the Wes; India sinecures ought to be re-
gulated. It was chiefly to the moral principle of
übolishing sinecures that the public Inoked. They
Were an anomaly in our Constitution which ought to
be corrected, and the whole of tl:e system won't.] thus

be rendered snore acceptable to the people.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that whatever objections might I'e mad! to cu-
ticular clauses of the Bill, it appeared to hi;u that
against its principle no sound argument had brew
adduced. Length of ;mile service was, perhars,
the best criterion by which to judge of a man's title
to the reward of a pension ; while on the other hamg
the expectation of oblaii,ing sinecures might often
prove fallacious, and it was placii.g a man in a crawl
situation by making him thus dependent on contin-
gencies. The expectation of reversionary grants
which his Noble Friend had talked of, might prove
still more fallacioues • It was converting public re-
wards Into a sort of lottery, where every thing de.
pended oil c Lance, and not On Merit or service. He
did net think the Bill diminisi:ed the influence of the
Crown; h? supported it because it provided re-
wards for public service in a manner more acceptable
to pe.)ple than the present mode.
Sir F. FLOOD considered this Bill as one of
onal economy, and one that would satisfy the pet ple
out of doors, and as not infringing on the perste-
, Lives of the Crown. He wished Gentlemen to read
the list of Sinecures in Ireland, and there they v:atili
find Governors and Constables of Castles where no
castles existed, and Val loos other places equally dis-
graceful, and to which large salaries were attached.
—And where there were any duties attached to
offices, the holders employed their journeymen to do
the duty.
Mr. 11 USKISSON was of opinion, the House
should pursue and complete the work which had
been pursued by every Administration for SO years
past, to chi away sinecures, ani attach a fixed salary
to each actual office.
Mr. %V. FITZGERALD objected tq the clause,
limiting the Pension List of Ireland to 410,000 pet'
annum. The House, on a former occasion last year,
fixed it at £BO,OOO. He also objected 'to the Bill, ai
going to ,transfer that patronage which belonged to
the Crown to the House of Commons.
Mr. *ANKES, in explanation, 'said, he had been
induced to restrict the, clause relative to the Peesion
List cf Ireland, by a reflection on the embarrassed
state of the Revenue of Ireland.
Colonel BARRY MAXWELL.conter.ded, that
it was a breach of faith on the part of Parliament to
attempt to reduce the Pension Litt of Ireland, which
was fixed at £BO,OOO, by contract between Parlia-
ment and his Majesty.
Mr. WILBERFORCE did not agree to what had
been stated by a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fitz-
gerald), that by this Bill the patronage was taken out
of the hapds of the Crown, and placed in the House.
The contrary was the fact, as the Lords of the Trea'
sury had a power of conferring the pensions as 'they
should think fit. He expressed his hopes that the
House, at the commencement of a new Parliament,
could not do less than it had done last Session, at the
termination of a Parliament.
Ir. LYTTLETON supported the measure, Which'
he thought one of equity and expediency. He was
of opinion there was no More grandeur in that which
was inefficient than there was solid strength in that
wh;ch was rotten and decayed. '
Mi. RYDER was ready to acknowledge, that there
might be roon. for doing away some places ;' but he
could not agree to the present Bill, which struck at
all the constitutional influence of the Crown, by doing
away, by one sweeping clause, 300 places. '
Mr. PROI HE ROl. supported the Bill; and con-
tended, that the opposition to the measure was un-
fairly brought forward on the present occasion. '
Mr. CROKER denied that the opposition was
brought forward unfairly, the debate had been' ie-
served to the present stage by a sort of convention the
House had come to on the subject. With respect to
the Bill he was decidedly against it.
Mr. W. SMITH was convinced the character of
the House would suffer by the rejection of the pill ;
for, however the arguments against the Bill might
convince persons in the House, they would not con-
vince any one out of it.
The House then divided ; for the Rliort being
brought up 94—against it 80. The Report was then
brought up.
On the Resolution for limiting the Pension List of
Ireland to 440,000 being read,
Mr. PONSONBY opposed the clause, giving an
historical account of the hereditary revenue in Ire-
land, and the compact eptered into between the Crown
and the Irish Parliament, 'and trti.u...l that nothing
should be inserted in the Bill contrary to the terms
of that compact.
Mr. CANNING agreed with the Right Honour-
able Gentleman (Mr. Ponsonby) in his opp.A.tion to
the clause relative to the Irish Civil List. The public
faith of Parliament had been pledged, a ad tha, pledge,
whether direct or implied, should be adhered to.
Mr. BANKES said, that observing, the gperal
feeling against this clause, he was wAling to with-
draw it.
The other clauses were read and agreed to, and the
Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Thursday.
WEYMOUTH VOTERJ BILL
Mr. Alderman ATKINS propostd the.postpone-
ment of the Weymouth Voters' Bill to Thursday ;
but, after some objection had been made, it %v.v. or-
dered to be read a second time to-morrow, witi
understanding that, it should stand over in favo-r of
any other more important matter that shoiod site
before the House.
The other Orders of the Dag were dip :std c
Adjourned at Half-past Eleven.

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