Star.
London, England, 1806-06-24 00:00:00

PUBLIC •CCOUNTS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
role, in purfuance of the notice which he had former-
ly given, to fubmit to the Houle a plan for the more
effectual auditing of the Public Accounts. The
Houle would do him the juflice to believe, that after
the views which he had Hated on a former os:cation
on this fubjee, and the fenfe which he entertained of
the magnitude and prefling nature of the evil, no
imneceffary delay had taken place in bringing for.
ward this plan, but that every moment had been em-
ployed in the invelligation of the fubjea, and pro-
viding means for obviating every pollible objedlion.
He was glad, however, that he was enabled, no;
withftanding the difficulties that flood in the way; to
move for this Bill before the conclufinn of the pre.
fent Sellion of Parliament. Without going over the
grounds over which he had formerly travelled, or em
tering upon Rttements which had then appeared-to
convince the Houk of die neceffity of doing fain-
thing for the purpofe of having this mals of accounts
audited, he would content himfelf with laying bei.l
fore the Houk the haft. of the plan which he bs
in view, and mentioning the amount of the Ac.
counts which remained unaudited, with refpeta to
which he had now more foil and coffee information
than he had when he had before oecafion to addre&
the Houfe on this point. When this was confidered,
it would be a proof, not certainly, of the efficacy of
the meafure which he was about to propofe, but un-.
doubtedly of the neceffity of doing fomething.
would afterwards thew that his method was the only
one which was likely to be attended with the defired
fuccefs. The amount of accounts unaudited, was
greater than he had before Rated. The amount of
accounts delivered in was above 52 millions; the
amount of accounts under the examination was 169
millions ; the amount of Army Accounts not deli-
vered in was 2C9 millions ; of Navy Accounts not
delivered in r00,81c,0001. which, added to three-mil-
lions of unaudited accounts in another department,
made a total of about 534. millions of money. That
enormous amount of unaudited accounts, it was the
objea of the prefent Adminiftration, as far as in
them lay, to endeavour to audit. He had before
mentioned that a great flep had been taken for
that putpofe, to which an addition had been made
he year, which was infinitely better calculated to
anfwer the purpofe in view, and which would form
a confiderable part of the inllitution that he was now
about to fubmit to the Houk. He would now Rate
the plan more diftinely. But firft he ought to ob:
Terre, that the two Comptrollers of Army Accounts
were to be feparbed from it entirely, a meafure, the
expediency of which had been already recognized.
After this reparation it was intended to confolidate
the two calling Boards, and to add four Commif-
fioners: one of, thefe would be a Chairman, with an
increafe of Glary. It was intended that the applica.
lion of thefe Boards to any particular bufinefs relat-
ing to the accounts, as occation might require.
Lbould be left in the hands of the Treafury, which
muff be beg able to judge how the bufinefs ought to
be apportioned. At prefent, however, it was pro.
poled that out of the ten Commiffioners four fhould
be intrufled with the auditing of the current accounts,
and there would form the firft Board. The &coed
Board would confift of three Commiffioners, and
thefe would have the charge of thole accounts which
were now under examination. The third Board would
alto contia of three Commiffioners, whole butinefa it
would be to bring up thofe accounts which were en-
tirely io arrear, and not entered on at all. This was I
what at prefent appeared to be the molt ufeful ar-
rangement. At the fame time it would be expedient
to leave the power with the Treafury to alter it as
they fhould fee occafion, becaufe the Treafury would
have the bell opportunity of °bre! ving how the dif-
ferent Boards wrought, and what might be the molt
effectual mode of carrying fpeedily forward the great
work which mull be managed in fame manner or
other. Whatever errors therefore might occdt, the
Treafury would be enabled to reilify them, and to
make up in fame meafure for any defeets which might
efcape the notice of Parliament in pang the
As the ellablithment was by this plan undoubtedly
confidcrably increafed in the firft Mit:ince, it was
proptifed to have the advantages of this increafe with
as little expence to the public, and with as little ad-
ditional power to Minitters as poffiblc. With this
view a provilion would be introduced into the Bill,
by which in no inaance in cafe of a vacancy by
death could the loin be fupplied till the number was
reduced to five, without coming to Parliament, and
on filch occafi.ms the Houle would have art oppor.
trinity of dikufflog the neceliity tor, or the expecii-
eory of, the fevera appointment., 'nod of alcert.tia-
ing how the viNir t: went on. This would afford cm:
ployment to the ten CommilTioners till they were T.
duced to the perman:nr number, which was

But in the event of the bufinel getting on faßer than
was expefted, a thing nut very likely, to occur, in
that cafe there was a provifion by which the com-
mons, by addrefs to his Hajar, might fupprefs any
of the Commit:lions. But, however, Parliament
would have the whole under its own eye. But the
great provifion refpeding the current accounts was,
that there fhould be a compulficui extending to all
accountants, by which they mutt fend in their ac-
counts from year to year. He had once fume doubts
whether this provifion could be now introduced, hut
he had the fatisfaCtion to find, upon examination, that
it might be done, and accordingly this pr ivifion was
introduced :nto the Bill. It was propofed, within the
(pace of three months from the 3 ill of December in
each year, every accountant fhould fend in an ac-
count of his receipts and expenditure for the year
preceding, together with the vouchers conneaed with
them ; and it was moreover propofid, that immedi-
ately upon thefe accounts being given in, an exami
nation fhould forthwith be entered upon, and a corn-
parifon take place between the accounts and the
vouchers, fo that they fhnuld at lean be Co far exa-
mined at the time they were delivered. And alfo in
thofe cafes where officers mud, from the neceffity of
eircumftances, examine their accounts at different
periods, it was propofed that the accounts Mould be
given in there three months before that period, in-
dead of the three months from the 3, ft of Decem•
ber, as in other inflances. Another part of the B:II,
though a fubordinate one, certainly was to enable
the accountants to have their accouuts attetled where
ever they fhould be, before any of the Commiffioners
of the Exchequer, which, as thefe were fpread over
the whole country, would be a very great conveni-
ence. Another part of the Bill he confidered as of
great importance, and that was the provifion by
which all thofe public officers who authorifed the ex-
penditnre of the public motley Mould be charged with
that expenditure, and made accountable for it. He
mentioned the inftance of a General Officer who in
the Weft Indies, during the laft war, had authorifed
the expenditure of zoo,oool. By mere accident he
had not a Commiffary with him. If there had been
a Commiffary, as the Commiffary would expend and
the Officer would have the controul over him, nei-
ther of them could be charged with it. As it hap-
pened, however, the Officer was refponfible, and
when that account came to be examined it was difal-
lowed. It was therefore provided, that all who au-
thorifed the expenditure of money fhould be refpon-
fible ; but at the fame time an appeal was allowed
them to the Exchequer in cafe they felt themfelves ag-
grieved. It was alto provided that when accountants
paid in any part of the funds which had been iffucd
to them into the proper office, they Mould be coati-
dered as fo far acquitted. There now remained only
to Hate the authority which was to be committed to
thefe Commißioners. The nature of this authority
was to remain as before, but to be extended over all
perfons who had the care of !toter, &c. See. ; all
which perfons they fhould be empowered to call be-
fore them. In addition to this, it was propofed that
the Comptrollers of the army fhould have the power
of calling all perfons before them who were concern-
ed in the military expenditure of the country, and
their powers were to be placed exaftly on the fame
footing as they were when the Commiflion was &ft
created in the reign of Queen Anne. Thefe Compt-
rollers were to be the advifers of the Treaftity in'all
' matters conneded with the military expenditure, and
in cafe any perfons for whom they called Mould re-
lure to appear, which he was told was fometimes the
cafe, they fhould have the power of impofing a fine
on all fuch perfons. There was one thing more
which it was incumbent on him to Rate, and that was,
that where the (torts were embezzled a valuation was
to be made, and the perfons who had the care of
chafe Rcres were to be charged with the amount ac.
cording to the valuation. He had now Rated the
principal particulars of the plan which it was pro
poled to carry into execution, for the auditing of the
public accounts. If any thing further could be fug-
gefted for this great objet it would be thankfully at-
tended tn. As to the importance of getting rid of
this mats of accounts, it was too obvious to require any
comment. But as to the patronage that might thus
be conferred on the Treafury, that was a point which
he willed to be thoroughly invefligated, as an opi-
nion teemed to be entertained by fome that there was
a defign in this to augment the patronage of the
Treafury. All he could fay at prefent was, that both
his Noble Friend (Lord Grenville) and he himfelf,
were extremely anxious to avoid any thing that could
have the tendency of giving patronage to the Trea-
fury, and if there could be any other mode by which
the end propofed could be effeaually anfwered, that
mode would be gladly adopted. But what fcheme
could be propofed, that could be equally well calcu-
lated to attain the defired objed, and yet keep free
of the alledged objedions, he could not at prefent
poffibly conceive. In addition to that, he could lately
fay, that the utmolt attention had been paid to the
Means of limiting that patronage as much as it could
be done, in continency with the attainment of the
o)et of the meafure. He had Rated how the Corn-
miffioners were to be replaced, till they were reduced
to five in number ; and as to Infpeaors, for fome In-
fpeanrs there mull of necenity be, it was intended to
feted them entirely on account of their merits, and
the feleaion would be made from the moll merlin.
tious Commiffaties on half pay, by which means the
whole amount of their half pay would be Caved to the
public. The examiners would be taken from the
Clerks now belonging to the Boards, and every thing
would be done to render the meafure as economical
and efficacious as poflible. With regard to a large
clafs of accounts, he had been told that they were
[tibial to no rifk, and that they were only mentioned
with a view to (well the lilt of the Comminioners.—
That tome of the accounts were (4(114 deft, iption he
was by no means difpofed to deny—hot (till the la
bouts mull be gone through, and there accounts mull
be examined. But as to the point of rifk, it Come-
times happered that there was fome rick, where, at
hilt view, there appeared to be none. There were
inltances of this even in the Bank account. He men-
tioned eme inflance, in which romool. had been
ailed from the Bank to one individual in the Weft
Indies. He had been on a former occation secured
of ignorance on this head, and told that the account
of Valintine Jones had no more to do with the Bank
than it hisd to do with the Hackney-coach Office, a
companion which the Right linnoarable Gentleman's
(Mr. Rote) experience enabled liim to nsake. He
would Ants the particulate of that tranfaftion, and

leave the matter to the judgment of the Houfe. In
1797 feveral bills had been drawn on the Treafury,
the Lord, of which applied to the tank to difcharge
thole bills, and bills to the amount of 1,600,0001.
were dircharged, and when the fubfeqnent loan was
made, the Bank detained the amount. '1 hey prefent•
ed their accounts to the auditors, the latter refufedto
allow the furry which had been drawl by Mr. Jones,
which the Bank had alfo withheld. • In 1798 an or
Hi fa& chide was introduced into the Loan Bill,
fans ioniug this condull of the Bank, empowering the
auditors to admit the account. and making Mr. Va-
lentine Jones infoper on the Bank account. This fum.
therefore, had fomething more to do with the Wink
Account than it had to do with the Hackney-coach
Office. He would not accufe the Right Honourable
Gentleman of ignorance on this fubjea ; he would
only call it a fort of want of recollection. Undoubted.
ly, however, he allowed. that,-with regard to the far
greater part of the Bank account there was no rill:,
and as to the Paytnaller, be allowed that the Pay-
matters themfelves were very honourable perfons, '
yet the perfons under them abroad, and in many •
places 'at home, might be of a very different dery ip.
tion. But, however, he could go on dere:thing the
clifferem nudes which snight be pointed out on thc(e
topics. All that he withed to do was, to thew, that
great rilk was, upon the whole, futtained from the
unaudited Rate of the accounts. Betides this, be had
no doubt that confiderable rums might be
and, at any rate, the example would be beneAcialk
and produce a confiderable effect on all chore who
were entrußed with the public money. In this view
the meafure would be of inuncafe utility. Lt bad been
Paid that the War Office particularly required re.: •
vifion. In that he molt pettedly agreed. and it was •
certainly extremely defirable that a new diftributioa
and new regulations could be made in that office.—
But fo many points had come under confideration,
that he was not prepared with any meafure refpeding
the War Office at prefent. But this, however, would
mnit certainly be fpeedily attended to. But in the
mean time the want of this would not take away from
the valve of the .meafure now propofed, as far as it
went. He pledged himfelf that next Seffion he would
people Come plan to regulate the accounts of the
War Office. But in the mean time we ought to pro-
ceed immediately with all that could be done for the
prefent. He concluded by moving for leave to bring
in a Bill for confolidating the two Boards of Com-
miffioners, and for the more effectually Auditing the
Public Accounts in arrear. On recolieding himfelf
After he fat down, he rote again and Rated, that the
expence of the permanent Commiffion would be left
by toool. a year than the expence of the eflablith-
ment at prefect. The expence of the prefent 014/Mi-
me:it was aB,oool.—that of his permanent Corn-
miffion would be a 7,0001. ; the expence of the tem-
porary addition would be 14,0001.m0re, which would
make it in all 41,0001.
Mr. ROSE, at fome length, followed the Rate-
merits of the Noble Lord. His general deduction
was, that out of the whole 534 millions Rated by the
Noble Lord to be wholly unaccounted for by the,
Commiffioners of Public Accounts, and for the lover,
tigation of which he lately profeffed to bring forward
the prefent meafure, only eight millions really re-
mauled unaccounted for. The reit were, to all in-
tents and purpofes, accounted for as fitisfaritorily as
pofible, though, perhaps, the whole had not paired
the Commiffioners of Accounts ; and of this eight
millions, the only part upon which inveftigation could -
attach, with any hope of recovering a Willing for the'
public, was about ninety.nine thoufand pounds. So,
that the conftrodion of all that expenfive fyftent of
machinery propofed by the Noble Lord, of increaf-
ing Commiffioners, Accountants, and all the other
' train of fubordinate Officers, was, in fad, doing no-
thing for the public. With refped to the accounts in
the Weil Indies, an Ad palled in the laft yea? for sp•
pointing new Commiflioners to follow up the enquiry
in that quarter, from which Commiffioners no report
had yet been made. In his opinion, therefore it
would have been much more advifeable for the N.
ble Lord to have waited for the report of thole Com.
miffioners and taken more time to confider and ma-
ture his plan, inßead of precipitating the country into
fo much ufelefs and unnecefrary expence. Having
concluded his obfervations upon the propofitions of
the Noble Lord; whore chief objed teemed to be to
cenfure a former Adminitiration, and to create
unneceffary patronage, be would now beg leave to
advert to fome allulions made perfonally to himfelf,
on a former night, by a Noble Lord oppnfite to him
(Lord Howick), and a Right Honourable and
Learned Gentleman (the Attorney General), now
in his eye. It had been obferved, that obfervatiens
from him, tending to condemn the creation of fine-
cure places, came with a peculiar ill grace; and al-
lotions were made to finecure places and lucrative ap-
pointments which he was fuppofed to polies. On
this point it was neceffitry to explain to the Houfe the
fallacy of fuck allulions. For the place which he
held under the Adminiftration of his late Right Ho-
nourable Friend, as Secretary of the Treafury, he had.
reigned a certain, permanent, and lucrative employ-1
meet, producing him 5,4001. a year, arifing from
fees, to take up a precarious one, which reduced his
income to 4,5001. a year : this income the Lords of
the Treafory were afterwards pleafed to reduce by a
new regulation to 30001. a year, and upon the for-
mer
refignation of his Right Honourable Fricnd,he
refigned this without any prorifion whatever. On the
return of his Right Honourable Friend again to ol-
fice, he accepted of another office, which lie again
reigned without any provifion ; and as to the i.ro•
ployment which he now held, it was one which had
been ufually conferred in teverfion for a furies of five
centuries, and was given to him on a fimilar footing
upon a reverfion of two lives, one of which conti-
nued fix years after he obtained the promife ; and
the other was at the time, of his own age, and a life
in every refped as good, and as likely to hall, as his
own. This grant was the only favour he had ever
silted for himfelf or any of his family, clofe as were
the friendfhip and intimacy which had for above
feventeen years lubfified between himfelf and his late
Right Honourable Friend ; and he believed that he,
in this inftance, Rood the fingle exception to all men /
who had ever preceded him in office, under fimilar fi
circumßances. The office of Secretary of the Tres-
Ifury was, after its firft redudion, upon further confi-
deration of the Lords Commiffioners, railed to

40001. a year ; and he was convinced that any man
who con fidered the talents requilite to • fill•that fitua-
don, and the laborious extent of duties it involved,

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