Star.
London, England, 1830-02-16 00:00:00

but merely to pledge itself to effect a reduction, he hoped they would
adopt it, otherwise they would not discharge their duty to their con-
stituents,
Mr. WESTERN thought the house bound to effect a reduction
in the establishments of the country. both civil and military, as
far as was consistent with prudence ; yet he was of opinion that the
house was pledged to that already. He (Mr. Western) did not at-
tribute all the distress to taxation. He would ask any member in
the house if ever he remembered sucn a stagnation in trade, com-
merce, and agriculture, as at present ? No man living ever
witnessed sorb universal misery ' • he attributed it to a change in the
currency ; even if taxation were reduced to the extent recommended
by the member for Montrose, it would not afford the relief which,
a restoration of the currency to the state in which it had been before
1819, would.
Lord ALTHORP was happy to perceive that ministers had
resolved not to meddle with the currency.— (hear, hear.) In his
(Lord Althorp's) opinion, much relief would proceed from a reduc-
tion in taxation ; but he did not think that a reduction to the
amount proposed by the hon. member for Aberdeen could be made.
Sir F. BURDETT conceived that to affect a reduction in taxa-
ilon was at all times the duty of the house, but even if the amount
Proposed by the hon. member for Montrose should be repealed, still
ire (Sir F.) did not think it would cause any immediate relief. He
did not see what relief a reduction of four millions In the taxation
could afford unless the circulating medium were raised to the
amount above stated. It was said that the legislature should nor
tamper with the currency, but it was by tampering with the cur-
rency that all the evils had arisen, all debts, contracts, and engage.
meets, had been formed, while paper was the circulating medium,
and it wu doing an oppressive injury to all those who had entered
into such engagements.
Lord NORMANBY sincerely hoped that ministers would per.
severe in their resolution of not meddling with the currency. His
hon. friend had shown that reduction was possible, and the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer did not deny it. The noble lord could see
no adequate ground for rejecting it.
Mr. II ERRIES thought that his Mejcsty's ministers had shown
every anxiety to make every reduction in the expenditure and tax-
ation that was consistent with the welfare of the country. If the
reduction proposed by the hon. member should be carried into
effect, it would entirely reduce our army and navy establishments,
and this he was acre the honourable member did not wish. The
motion of the honourable member for Montrose was, he considered,
brought forward at a moat unfitting time. It was brought before
the House had an opportunity or hearing the statement of his right'
hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It waebrought forward
before his right honourable friend could put the house in possession
of what propositions the government thought of making (hear,hear).
The honourable member was wrong in attribaing the cause of the
present distresses to the source he did ; he was equally in error in
supposing that they originated from the present currency, as he was
in the application he would make by way of remedy. The honour.
able trouper would find, upon further inquiry, that there were other
causes for the distress than those stared by him.
Mr. C. GRANT thought that in fairness the motion should not
have been made until they had been put in possession of the views
of ministers upon the subject. They could then, if the proposition
was not such as to meet the ideas of the house, have the option of
bringing forward a motion on the point.
Lord HOWICK supported the motion If a general reduction
of t:•‘: taxes could not be effected, he would say there ought at least
to be a modification ; (hear, hear.) His lordship complained in
Wits tens of the plan adopted that night, as well as upon others,
a bringing the question, that eternal question, the currency, Into
the discussion.

Alr. Secretary PEEL said, "Although 'I shall hare the rata.
faction of voting this night on the motion of the hon. gent. in nom.
iwny with the•ben. baronet.—"

Sir F. BURDETT here exclaimed--" No, you will not."—(A
lough.)
Mr. Secretary PEEL then observed that the unexpected de-
aeration of the hon. bast. corrected his mistake, but it also induced
him to think the hon. baronet's vote would be at variance with his
/perch. He could not agree with the hon. baronet that the remis-
sion of taxation would not be of benefit to the population. He
conceived that the remission of a tax, however small, must relieve
the hands of industry. Industry would always fructify much more
wl:hout taxation than with it, but he rather thought the hon. but.
was disposed to deprecate the liberal reduction proposed by the
lion. Member for Aberdeen. It would certainly be of advantage
to the House if some Gentleman would bring forward a mea-
sure by which the standard could be depressed, and a remedy
found for the distresses of the country. Would the honourable
Baronet bring forward such measure ? If he did, it must be sup.
potted by, a stronger argument than any they had heard that
night. lie could not understand the honourable Baronet when he
mid that a reduction of five millions on the circulating medium would
make a reduction in the income of the country to ten times that a.
tbount. There were two considerations he was desirous of dis-
cussing. The honourable Baronet said, " Let us tamper with
the currency now because we have tampered with It be.
fore."l It did not follow, because they had interfered with
the currency twice, that they must interfere a third time.—(Hear.)
but the hon. baronet ought to recollect that for ten years the present
standard of currency had been in existence. Admitting a loss by the
immense paper transactions in 1814, it could not be prudent to dis.
Curb the present- transaction. The right hon. gentleman was de.
sirous of pressing on the honourable baronet, that unsettling the
arrency at this time would be productive of the most dangerous
consequences. The moment the public heard it was the intention of
parliament to alter the standard, there woad be a demand for the
value of their paper. They would press for payment of their paper
in the medium in which it was contracted; in short, extreme difficulty
would unavoidably occur in unsettling existing engagements. He
begged the honourable baronet would pause before he resolved upon
the change contemplated. On the subject of the motion, he would
ray it was unusual and unprecedented : it was unusual befor the mi.
maitre of the Crown had brought in their estimates to the house to
step In and MOW a resolution stating that they would forthwith
bind themselves to repeal certain taxes. The honourable mem-
ber talked of reducing 8,510001. of taxation : he (Mr. P.) left it
to the house to consider what would be the effect on the public mind
-If it was believed that the house was prepated to remit 8,500.0001. of
taxes. The honourable member proposed a resolution to
remit a large proportion of the text-a—such as those on soap,
candles, malt, and other articles; but any member who wished
to remit such taxes ought to bring in a bill for the purpose,
'or nothing was worse to the retail traders than to be left in
ewes:zee as to the articles intended to be reduced. The conse-
quence of uncertainty was, that there would be no confidence,
-.mat there would be a total stop to dealing in the retail trade.
The hon. member would have acted a more sensible part if he had
lorought forward his bill at once. The hon. member had raid that
lee motion would console the country for the omission in the King's
speech. He (Mr. Peel) knew how impracticable it was to per-
"even against the declarations made respecting the public suffer.
fogs; but he believed that the statement rude in the King's
speech was nearer the truth than the assertions of universal and
ehmitigsted distress. The communications which he bad received
since that speech was delivered, from persons who volunteered
their information, convinced him that the distress was not only
not universal, but that it never existed to a degree to excite de-
spoodttley. (Hear, hear.) Although he admitted • that the di.-
Less in many parts was severe, and that it had been of long oust.,
nominee, still it had not extended all over the United Kingdom,
ez had it been so severe as to extinguish all hopes. He had that
Witider,ce in die astonishing resources of the country, tort be was
persuaded that in a short space of time, we should reach
.tr item id
comparative prosperity ; but he did not think that by exaggerated
ettAtetuents of the distress, which would have the eftect of treating
despot demi, we should approximate to a restoration of confidence,
cod too stale when we could look forward to a reduction -of the
public burdens.
411% IVOIffsHOUSE complained that it was worse this delusion
to state that the country had been ten years in this state of despond-
ency. lit had no coutulence in his Nliojesty's Ministers.
Mr. illililE said, that perm ivlng the impatience of the hew,
he would not trespass on their attention. He bad done Ms duty,
std he hoped the house would perform theirs.
'lnc house then divided, and the numbers were--Foe the amend-
n enf, I;9—Against it, 184 - Majority, 115.
Whilst strangers were excluded, some discussion was canted on '
in the house. On entering the gallery, we found
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE addressing the house, and . els
holing tosomeddog which had passed whilst the galleryed. was
He referred in; terms of censure to the criminal prosesudoes re.
'lndy instituted by the Attorney-Oeneral, and then adveread to the
distressed state of the country. He- said that in these tincumpled
lass of unmitigated taxation, he felt it hisduty to raise his voice in
behalf of the distrusted agradturies and the unemployed menufries
tams. He warned the goverinmewt not to-exult either is their
net:Thera or power. He would tell them, that if they should puss.
were in a comae of lavish expenditure; they might perhaps And,
wren it was too late, that there was a majority out of doors which
Meld make the majority within doors at length 'acknowledoe the
rat views of the despicable minority of this night:
11r. PLEL said, the boo. member must have eompletely misun-
derstood what :fell from ham if he supposed that be setpseased any
feelings of triumph rip account of the division hod toted
Pisces
Oa the question that the gnie TA do leave the dud;
The HAND Hoof BLAiI pro aid, bethought' is Shit the
didtzl
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