Star.
London, England, 1814-07-12 00:00:00

private families), are little calculated to promote the
health or contort of their inhabitants. I live, Sir,
in a parish (I mean that of Mary-la:bonne), which
maintains its insane poor in a licensed house, and it
is the practice of that parish, by the Medical Stall
-of their Infirmary, frequently to visit them.—
This Staff, consisting of a physician, surgeon, and
arothecary, examine every month the insane paupers
both as to the state of their minds and of-their bodily
health. They see their bediroom—they inspect their
beds—and they report in writing to their employers,
the Guardians of the Poor, the result of their exami-
nation. Now, Sir, I have not mentioned this circum-
stance to do honour to a parish, with the manage-
ment of which I am personally much connected, but
I have stated it in the hope of leading other London
parishes into the practice I have described. It is, Sir,
the miserable policy of many, indeed I might say of
most of those parishes, to keep their poor, when men-
tally deranged, in their workhouses, in which, there
being no other means of confinement, the unfortunate
lunatic is generally consigned to, and fora great'
length of time confined in, a straight waistcoat.—
Thus, Sir, being much aggravated, and more un-
skilfully treated than he would be in a Mad-house,
he becomes less likely to be restored to sanity of
mind. The maintenance, Sir, of a pauper in a Lon-
don workhouse, costs his parish 6s. weekly—in a
Mad-house tie maintenance of a pauper costs it lOs.
and it appears to me, that to the small difference be.
tweet these two sums, the interest of one-half, at
least, of the insane prior of London is perfectly sa-
crificed. I am sorry to say, Sir, that in all my com-
munications with Mad-Looses, and it has been very
frequent, I have observed that the patients of them
are very seldoin visited by their relatives or friends.
Now surely, Sir, in the degree our feelings prompt us
to tern our backs On these unhappy persons, in the
same degree does our duty urge us to attend to add
watch them. they are, Sir, peilectly dea4 to all
the intercourse of social life ; and worse than dead,
with respect to tll impression their tate leaves on the
minis ef their relatives and friends. When a man
loses a friend, the frst burst of gra t being at an end,
he fosters znd eaccurage every idea that leads his
mind to the recollecta it
.4 his departed friend t—
wlieteas every thought connected with insanity is so
degrading to our vaure, and so humbling to our
pride, tit ,r we male a point ot keeping it from our
minds. With these impressions, Sir, I cannot but
be highly friendly to the Bra novi before the House.
I am sanguine enough w think that it will go a great
way to secure the objects' of it against insproper, by
which I mean unnecessary detention, and 1 canna;
doubt bun, by the visitation it impustlson all ueu:Fpa-
pers, it wilt much- improve the conditions ot all per-
tains confined wider insanity, Indeed, Sir, I believe
that the very agitation of Use Bill has had 'the latter
effect to a cons.,lerable amount. I believe too, Sir,
that it has improved the practice of one public hos-
pitei, I mean that of getilem, by softening its seve-
rity towards its patients. I have, Sir, within these
few weeks, seen the nriliatunate maniac Norris, who
has been, I believe, more than once mentioned in this
House. Finding him fastened to his bed's Lead by
an iron collar and chain, strung enough to hold a
ball or horse, I was extremely surprised to hear him
express his thankfulness to his keepers for the liberty
he now enjoys. My surprise, Sir, however, soon.
ceased, on my learning fiom Norris, as well as from
those about him, that he had beer lately exonerated
born two.third parts of the iron which he bad worn
for thirteen years past, night and day in his bed.—
Now, Sir, this unfortunate maniac ar rational enough
to admit, as do I, that it may have been long neces-
sary to enchain him, but he conrends, as du I, that
it cannot have been so cerapleiely to encase him in
iron, as has been the practice for a long series of
years. Noe, Sir, with this tact before me, I cannot
say that Eethlern is the hospital which I wish to ex,
empt tram the intended visitation. I know, Sir, that
among the Governors there is very much of benevo-
lence, but I fear that amongst them likewise, there
has been some little apathy, to use a respectable Al-
dermaii's late expression when he spoke of Newgate,
as to the sufferers within the walls of Bethlem. i beg
pardon for having trespassed so long on the House.
What I have said has been offered from a sense of
duty. •
Mr. Alderman Smith, Mr. Bennet, Sir J. Shaw,
Mr. P. Carew, and Mr. Rose, expressed their sipi-
nions also in its favour; after which the B II was read
at thirciaime and parsed. Several new clauses were,
added as riders, alter they had gone thrOugh Com-
inittees.
number of Petitions were presented from various
parts id the country a : ainst the Slave Trade.
Lord LA'aCELiaLS presented a petition from the
Post-misters of Yorkaliiie, complaining of the Post-
horse Farmers.—lt was laid upon t'-e Table.
At the suggestion of r. LOCKHART the secend
reading of ow Post-horse Farming Bill was postponed%,„ri hursday.
a.ord PALMERSTON brought .up an addition
to the Miscellaucuus Estimates.—Laid upon the table.

LORD COCHRAN&

Lord EBRING I'ON observed, that having- seen
is ohe of the Newspapers, that a, day had been ap-
pointed tit- putting Lord Cochrane in the pillory, he
wished to know, wilethenit. was the intent, n of the
Crown to remit that part of the sentence of the Court
of King's Bench ?
Lt;r4.l C 4 1 LEREAGH replied, that it was usual
for the Court to irk a day for carrying its sentence
into execution. As to what the Crown might be ad-
vised to do, his Lordship was really not prepared to
give an answer. The question had in the ordinary
course been brought under the notice of the Crown,
by A pttition horn one or the pariies, Mr. Butt, who.
h d solicited fur mercy. That petition had been put
i the regular CI All se, and a .reterency had been made
to the Judge, alter which the decision of the Crown
twousa be made. As the sul ject was in a train of en-
quiry, lie thought that it would not be expedient for
Yitleatuent I. inter ti ie.

EiIkINGTON said, that as the Noble Lord
could give him no iniormetion, be would submit A
motion to the Hot.se upon the subject.
Lord CiIiSTLEREAGII aslot d, that he should
deprec, te Any $i • .ce the Croin wits the loon-
• tan 01 mei cy, and the House had no jut isditticm.—
1 the Now I.orkl did persist, he would recommend
that the d.ry tiii.Al might be as late as possible, in or-
der that ,n Vie mean ton. tit. decision of the proper
auutortty might be

Lord EBRINGTON rejoined, that his- motion
would be for an address to Crown, praying that
that part of the sentence that related to the pillory
might be mitigated, on the ground of Lord Coch-
rane's prqfessional services.
' Lord CASTLEREAGH remarked, that it would
be a delicate questen, whether the professional ser-
' vices of Lord Cochrane placed him upon a different
footing to that of the other prisoners ? He hoped that
a distant day would be named for the motion.
Lord EBRINGTON named to-morrow se'nnight.
Mr. TIERNEY wished to know, whether the
judge's report would be made by that day ?
Mr. WHITBREAD asked, whether the cases of
all the parties would b.: considered under Mr. Butt's
petition, or whether only that of the individual; were
all the cases referred to the Judge ?
Lord CASILLREAGH was not prepared to
give any decisive answer, but he apprehended that
all the cases would be included in the consideration
of the Judge who tried the cause.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that the
reference to the Judge was made. that the Crown
might receive the requisite information. It did not
necessarily follow that the Judge would give any opi-
nion upon the propriety of remitting the sentence;
that was .a matter for the decision of the Crown.

Mr.WHITBREAD noticed a previous case, where
the Secretary of State had informed him, that the
Jude was called upon to give an opinion;
Ihe ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied, that it
was true that the Judie might include his own opi-
nion, but it was not indispensably necessary that he
should do so. He himself had, as a Judge of Assize,
frequently been called upon to make reports on the
cases of criminals, and he had not always included
his own recommendation.

Lord EBRINGTON 6sed to-morrow se'nnight
for his motion.

ARMY ESTIMATES.

Lord PALMERSTON having'moved the Orer
cf the Day for going into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. FR EEMANTLE said, lie fett it his duty to
deliver to the House his opinions on the present state
,f the expenditure of the Army. It was to be recol-
kcted, that the estimates laid before the House were
t! a. the service of the year, from the -25th December
last, to die same time in the present year. In these
estimates all the reductions front the sum voted for
last year, was two millions, and that eventual. Now
is fir as economical arrangements in our internal
system of defence could be followed, they might have
been adopt, a as early as April last ; by the reelifC-
ti•al thus effected, a greater saving than one-eig jai),
which was all the reduction at present in all branches,
• the whole expenditure would have been efiec,ed.
If a's much of zeal had been used by the Government
:0 the reduction of the expenditure of the country at
'resent, as they had formerly shown of energy in
proposing enlarged scales of expenditure, they would
nave beta even more entitled than they actually were
to the liberal praise of the country. When the de-
Jails of the estimates presented were looked into, they
would appear more objectionable ; five millions were
regnired for the foreign troops in the service of this
country, and the militia. Now on these branches
alone a saving could have been effected, if early and
effectual measures had been ado;Aod, as great as all
that which was now held out. For the staff and gar-
risons,
volunteers, local militia, and commissariat,
&c. there was a charge of sever. millions, on wl ich
also there might have teen a reduction of much more
than two millions. As to the General Officers, he
agreed in the principle that they. were entitled to a
larger pay than they had formerly enjoyed. There
was one thing, however, to be considered in this re-'
gulation, that those who were now Captains or ink-'
rior Officers, would go on in rank during the peace ;
yet when they became General Oalcers, it would not li
be said that they were entitled to so large a pay as
those who had been actually efficient Officers or
higher rank during the.war. The Honourable Gen-,
tieman then observed, that it Was extraordinary that
no one of his Majesty's Ministers had given any hint
of the probable reduction on the peace establishment:
it was true details might be difficult, but some gene-
ral grounds might be given. It appeared, however,
that they were to return to their constituents, after
the successful termination of the war, from most ex•
traordiaary exertions, without Illy opportunity of an:
Inouncing to them any reduction of their burthens,
but, on the contrary, after having voted all the esi-
mates on the same scale of expenditure as those of
laa year. As there was a probability and universal
expectation of a most permanent peace, we should
have recurred to the principles of expenditure which
we had acted on before the war. - It was true th .t we
were still at war with America, but it v.as imposs:ole
to conceive that America could long 'contend ia ith
this country,. and negotiations had been entered into
with every prospect of a happy termiliation. It was,
therefore, not without some cause being sheen that
we should depart from the scale of expenditure of
1781. At that time the expence of Staff and Garri-
sons was £6,400, now seldom so little as ,C6(h),000.
The Ordnance was £400,000, now between tour and
five millions. The Civil List was 8895,000; now
W 1,200,000. The other items bad increased in pia
portion. The interest of the debt was then nine mil-
lions, it would at present be more than forty millions,
when the whole was funded ; yet though then there
was so much less need of reduction, the whole expen-
diture was £14,4(X),000, about five millions more
than the interest of the debt. It was the bounden
duty of the House to look to the lowest scale to which
the expenditure could be reduced. The Honourable
G,ntlernan concluded by saying, that he should not
. object to the items of the Estimates.
The Hon. H. G. BENNET said, that among the
various branches of military expenditure to this coun-
try, the army in Sicily was one respecting which he
wished to know the intention of his Majesty's Mini-
sters. While we were at war, Sicily was of impor-1
Lance as a military station, but as we were now at
peace with the nations on all the shores of the Medi-
terranean, it was the duty of the House of Commons
not to altoW an army to.be supported in that island
for the purpose of maintaining the Sovereign against
the people. Under our influence many important re-
volutions had been effected in that Wand. Ttie
Queen had been banished, and the Hereditary Prince
set up instead of the King. The old Norman Con-
stitution, Which contained more than any constitution
in Europe the seeds of those. establishments at which
we were so proud, had been 'destroyed, and in its
stead a most singular one established, which in theory

.

-. • .
was liberty, in practice oppression. There had been,
indeed, a Perkement which sat for a month. but
when it had attempted to remedy some enormities in
the Civil List it had been dispersed at the point of
the bayonet, and a proclarnetioelad been. published,
threatening with death the disturbers of public-
order." He trusted the Noble Lord (Lord Castle-
reagh) would give some satisfaction on this subject.
—The Honourable Gentleman then adverted to the
hard circumstances in which the veteran battalions
were placed, which, though composed of worn-out
men, had been sent on foreign service; and the Offi-
cers, too, were cut off from the hopits of promotion.
He repeated his opinions of the former yeea. ie.pecting
the cavalry regulations, which had succeeded in
taking away things most useful, and substituting
things scarcely even ornamental. Under the present
regulations it would be better that the cavalry Colo-
nels should have nothing to do with the clothing of
their regiments, for they were often considerably losers.
Lord PALMERSTON/ said, that the Board which
had drawn tip the cavalry regulations, was composed
of the most distinguished .officers, and• their °Pinion,•
were more likely to be accurate than that of any indi-
vidual : if the Hon. Gentleman, however, brought
the subject under discussion, lie 'should be ready to
meet him. As to the veterans it was intended to dis-
continue them as battalions, and to continue the offi-
cers on full-pay, and the privates on such an allow-
ance as the Chelsea Board shotild think fit. These
battalions were composed of men who, though 4tot
fit for active service abroad, were thought able to sus-
stain the less severe • duty of garrisons. The reason
why the usual practice of keeping these troops at
home had been departed from, was the unprecedented
demand on the country for military force. Although
they had been sent abroad, they had been stationed in
garrisons, only in Madeira or North America, so that
the severity of the, service was not encreased, and every
attention had been paid to the comfort of the indivie
duals. So little hardship was there in the case of the
officers, that much more applications were made for
commissions in the Veteran Battalions than could be
attended to. It eas very easy to. say that reductions
ought to be made, but in details he defied any person
to show that economy had been neglected. It was im-
possible to reduce the regiments till all the battalions
returned ; but orders had been issued to reduce the ca-
valry regiments within reach ; the troops having been
reduced from 10 to 8, the number of men in each
troop from 80 to 60. P. to the reduction of the Militia,
&c. as early as April last, it wis to be recollected the
number of French prismn ers, for whose safe custody
we had to provide. All p esible progress was made
in the reduction of the militia, all regiments that could
be spared being marched back to their counties to_lse
disbanded. As to the Staff it could not be reduced
till the troops to which it was .Itteciied had returntd
home. It was sufficient that the peace establishment,
iii general, would he formed on the most ceconumical
arrangements. As to the pay i f Greeter Officers it
was proposed to increase the pay of these who
had not regiments from Ad. 12s. 6d. to 'JCL 18s.
which *ou:d make in all an income of R7OO 4-test.
It would still, however, be a mark of distinction and
of advantage to possess regiments, but those who wore
not of that opinion might give them up and receive
the increased pay. The Niblt Lord adverting to
the Guards observed, that such Oihceis of teat hely
as became General Officers should be wholly re-
lieved from regimental duty, with regard to-Which,
indeed such officers were heretotere found quite ineffi-
cient in certain cases. These officers then being so
relieved, the Captains and other officers likely to suc-
ceed them would gain in rapidity of promotion. Ai
a farther provision for the Officers of the Guards, who
from their services, he thought peculiarly entitled
!o the consideration• of the lioese, the Noble Lord
said, that he proposed to grant to the first Major of
the First Regiment, which consisted of three batta-
lions, L9OO a year; tis the first Majors of the 2d and
3d Regiments, each of which consisted of only 2 bat-
talions, £7OO a year ; to tile Captains of the several
Regiments of Guards, he proposed to grant £5OO a
year, but on half.pay, he proposed an addition of
£5O a year, to the ordinary allowance to the Captains
of the First Regimea, who app Arad to have a
stronger claim ; and £3O a year to the Captains of the
other two Regiments; io tlie,Lieutenants of the army
%On had had an additional pay of one shilling a day.
he prop:sr...l to grant an addition of sixpence a slay on
half-p.. - ; the half-pay of Ens•Rns he pr posed to fix
at three shillings a day. The Nellie Lord concluded
with come geeetal observations in support of tne pro-
posed arrangetnetit.
General GASCOYNE thought that as the Corn-
mi. tee would be the proper place fir going into de.
teiee any observations upon them would be inappro.
fin ee upon the motion nefore the House.
Mr. PONIiONBY said, that he had some observa-
tions to melte which applied to the principle of the
motion ; that the military establishment of the Em-
pite calmd not be consistently reduced to the stan-
dard at which it stood previous to the war, he was
ready to admit; but he contended, that every excess
beyond that standard ought to be justified upon its
.own grounds.. Tlee,excess created by the acquisition
of Malta, the Meericius, and.other places by the late,
war, clearly admitted of justification; but no tardier
excess than that which. was eqiially necessary should
be tolerated ; and exclusive orinch points as he had
alluded to, our military establiSiiment ought to be
confined to that previous to the revolutionary. war.
The Noble Lord. had observed, that our military
establishment must be regulated by the amount of
force maintained by other European Powers; and he
confessed that he was Much surpri.ed at this observa-
tion. Certainly it Was not very consistent' with the
stetement 'ot another Noble Lord (Castlereagh),
that we had now to look for a long. pi otoulid, ;the
unsuspicious peace; if so, it could not follow, that
because Russia or Austria, or any other Power,
maintained 30 or 40,0(10 more troops than usual,
this country should be incumbered with the support
of an additional military force. Unless, indeed, the
statement of the noble Secretary for foreign Affairs
was too sanguine, tee doctrine of the Noble •Lurd
(Palmerston) was quite untetieble. Here the Right
Honourable Gentleman aliuded to the state t• 1
and the views of Geverianeut with regard tb that
country. Upon this subject, respeetinn which he diet
not mean to pronounce Any blame 'pun M 4 esters, he
telt himself unable to torm any opinion, tor he coule
not understand the case. Indeed it appeared at pre-
sent unintelligible,. and perhaps it was not yet ear-
.
dient to give any explanation.

• • •
Lordlt mthenstHboenseand
.the aware
AHSoTnoLuEraßbre AGGeHndesaimat
that' the affairs of Sicily were at present in a very
.ighCt
critical state ; that country had, no (hub(' great
claims upon Great Britain. It was entitled to expect
that we should actively interest ourselves in its fa-
vour, and he could sat that. waling in our power
would be wanting to contribute to its future advan-
tage. With respect to the Right Hon: Gentleman's
allusion to the character of the Peace, he could not
help observing, that rather an exaggerated picture
was presented by the Right Hon. Gentleman upon
that subject, for the House and the country could
not dismiss from its mind, that however deliberately
'the peace with France might have been formed.
much yet remained to be done. It would be recol-
:lected, that all the territory regained from France
was yet to be distributed, and, under all the circit":-
stances of the case,, he submitted it would be quite
impossible as yet to reduce our military establishment
to the standard which some Gentlemen had in view.
at least to that which existed twenty years ago. let
must also be borne in mind that very material
changes had taken place in the eaters'sl relations and
internal condition cf the several nations of Euroci;,
which it would be expedient to consider before any
Resolution should be adopted with regard to the
future mount of out military force. Ttecurring to
Sicily, he was not prepared to give any precise infor-
mation upon that point at present, but he could as-
sure the House that due attention would be paid to
the state and destinies of that country.
Mr. BANKES deprecated the idea of leaving dale
country in any degree dependent upon the discretion
of other Powers, and referred to the arrangement pro-
posed by that great statesman, Mr. Pitt, as to the
amount of our military force, gpon a peace establish,
ment, in order to guide the judgment of the flow.
which ought to hear In mind, that while men were
influenced by their passions, the jealousy or insutbility.
of nations was not likely to cease, and that it would
be absurd in this country to calculate upon a security
from war. Therefore be would always recommend
that due provision should be made against the visita,
t.on of such a calamity, which, at least, was not more
improbable in future times, than it had been previous
to the revolutionary war. The Honourable Member
concluded with observing, that adequate preparation
and vigorous exertion was ever the best mode of ter.
minating, if it did mt prevent, a war; 'and that, if
that principle had been acted upon, the war which
separated the American States. from Great Britain,
would have been much sooiter brought to an eud, wick
most pinbaSiy a very different result.
Lord NEWARK read a statement of the proposed
pay of General. pacers, and insisted that there was
great dispMportion in it. as compared with former as..
rapgements in the time of peace.
Mr. W. SMITH could not help thinking that we
might do, with a less establishment than in 179 L
It was impossible nct to allow that our military cha.
racier must go for something ; and then the nation
was in a state of -internal tranquillity. As to our
toreign establishment, n • very numerous force could
be necessary ; for instaticer in-dndia them was Cer-
tainly less occasion for a powerful army, than at the
time when the French had so much ontroul in that
country. He then alluded to the state of wily, and
hope. 4 ;bat after opening.to that kingdom-prospect;
of a better Government, we should not leave them to
lament that none of our good promises had been
fulfilled.

After a few wnrds from Mr. CAL;CRArt, the House
wentinto a Committee, and Lord PAL %lEASTON moved
the first Resolution.
Mr. PONSONBY •ibjected to the proposed method
of paying the Officers of the Guards: the only effect
of the alteration would be, not t.i benefit a most disli
tinguished branch of military service, but to create a
Considerable patronage for the Government.
General GASCOYNE went into some details to
thew that the General Officers of the Guards would
be losers by the new arrangement.
Sir EYR.E COOTE followed to the same effects
and recommended attention to the mouton Of the
Ensigns •
Mr. BENNETT insisted, that the measure would
be a job—nothing but patronage from beginning
to end,
Sir B. BRYDGES objected to the proposed alteral
tiou respecting the Guards.
Mr. PONSONBY thought that something should
be done to ameliorate the mutton of Ensigns and
Lieutenants, whom it was impassible their present
allowance could support in the rank of Gentlemen.
The £20,000 proposed to be given to the Guards,
would be much better applied in rendering their situa-
tion more comfortable.
Lord PALMERS lON replied to the various ob-
jections that had been urged. The allowance to en-
.bigns and lieutenants, if compared wit., that made to
others, would be tar from appearing niggardly. At
the time when an addition was made to the lull pay
of lieutenants and ensigns, this was not mt ant to ex-
tend to hab-pay, and would not have so extended
but for the regulation now proposed. With respect
to the cavalry, the junior lieutenant-colonels might
be put on half-pay, but not the senior. 'The propos-
ed alteration respecting theguards was justified, from
a number of officers having become inefficient for ge-
neral,ditty, in consequence of their proui.ition to he
lAA of general odizers, and the expense winod only
amount to £3,616. To vindicate the commander in-
chief from the charge of giasping at patronage, It Wall
only necessary to look at the state the army; and
'at the end of a long war ,it was always cuaiiim sty to
Make a general. promotion, to reward those officeri
who bad ably served their country.
Mr. BANK= and'Mr. BENNIEr explained; and the
latter Gentleman stated the number of Conirmisions
at the disposal of the Commander in Chief, to be from
16 ,to ,C 17.000. •

A desultury conversation then took place on the
part of General Gascoyne, Mr. f. Carew, Sir Eyre
Coote, Mr. &Jokes, Mr J. P. Grant, Mr. Bennet,
and Lord Palmerston. The Chau tsM then put t:ic
question, that the sum of d 40,000 should be gratwd
to increase the pay of Gcner.4 gtlicets L.ot !lawn: •
regiments.
General GASCOYNE expressed an intention to
mqve, that the surdshontd be 1/4.7.101.
Mr. PONSONBY moved tha: the sum should ba
Umitedlg.W.outa, with a view to ilrikeolr Lae suits
of atitAged.' toe additions; expenc.: it the ,;cards..
that time might be rto fund to carry time plan 1.,t0
i'tectition. An Honourable Member oppubiEc latd