Star.
London, England, 1813-02-12 00:00:00

VICE-CH A MOIL LOWS BILL.

On the motion for the second reading of this Bill,
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he should state
the outline of the considerations which induced him
to support it. The chief argument ;n favour of it
was its general necessity. Unless some adequate
means could be fon.nd for rendering the appellant
system more perfect, it would be impossible to carry
on the judicial sysfrm of the country in an effectual
manner. The cases now before the House of Lords
were so numerous that they could not be decided tot
many years. Macy of these cases might be pro.
tracted for eleven years. Therefore, some remedy
was absolutely necessary. it had been said, that.this
measure was not calculated to remedy a perpetual
evil ; but to remedy the evil arising out of the long
list of causes at present in the Court of Chancery ;
but that was not the fact. For this measure was re•
commended by all the _Political Characters who
were accustomed to take a part in the debates of
the other House of Parliament. Besides, it was not
to be expected that the House of Lords would ez.
tend the usual periods of their sittings fat the pup.
pow of hearing appeals. It was, therefOre, of the
utmost consequence, that either the duties Cairn.
cellor and Speaker of the House of Lord, should be
separated, or that a distinct Judge should sit on
appeal causes in the House of Lords. In the Court
' of Chancery there was a large and growing arrear,
which, if not stopped, would become a national ca.
lamity ; and it would be impossible for the Chancellor
to draw in aid from the other Courts at Westminster
Hall, without impeding the business of those Count,
where there was as much as could be performed by
the Judges presiding there. The increase of business
in all the Courts arose from the increasing wealth
and population of the country ; and in the Court of
Chancery an additional assistance was at least abso-
lutely necessary. This could not be called an inno•
vation, because the functions of the Officer to be
created would in no respect differ from the functions
now exercised by the Master of the Rolis.—Besides,
this measure would be attended with no expeuce to
the public ; for it was proposed that one-half of the
salary of the new Officer (84000 a•year) should be
paid out of the profit's of the present Chancellor, and
the other half out of a fund in Chancery, called the
dead tund, out of which, after paying the Masters,
&c. there was now an annual surplus of £3OOO a- year.
Therefore there could be no objection to the me isure
on the ground of expence. It 7, as aiso objected that
this measure tended to make such an alteration in the
office at Chancellor as to erect him into .t great otate
Ma,4istrate. No such thing was to be a,loc.pa ed.
As well might it be supposed, that Lord Elienbo-
rough would withdraw hi.iiself front the business of
the King's Bench, and throw it iat the other' three
Judges. And no one could suppose that she Chan-
cellor would ise walking abiut the streets while his
deputy was performing his business, when Los presto:lo
was required in the !douse of Lords or other el.ues.
A similar objection had been made tit the tolie Shen
a Bill was brougta in to make the Master of taw 'twig
in Ireland an efficient officer, and the !acts which v.•
curred since proved that there was no gtoivid f.H the
objection. The Noble Lord observed, ..c ten cos.
viuced that there was nut a man in we Hattie v:
in
the country who would with so to diminish toe inc
of the Chancellor, as to render it impossible tor A
holding the ottic,: to make a provi.ion for their :came
support, should circumstances cause their removal.
The provision made by Public of MA/0U pr anus
was very liberal ; hut it was na. :talkie-in to support
the person who had held the first legal situatien wthe

.
stite in each a stainer ale iiik 'tsStriiiiced 'the
c,,,,e/7 would wish to see such a frOVicted for.
under all these circumitaykr, lie spited the Orekent
;wore would meet the toppOrt of the House.. lit
concluded by moving the 'second Vending of the Bill.
Mr. BANKES igreitd Folly in tbestateinent whiCh
had been made of the deplerible State of buaineis at
resent in the Court of Chancery. The system exist-
leg at present *as attended with such delays of jus-
tice, as to fall khdrt of nothing less than an absolute
denial of it 1 btu the luestion now under .consi'dera.
lion was, 'Whether the proposed measure would prove
a remedy for the evil ? 'she Hon. Gentlernan then en-i
tered into a .review of the pt ovisiorfs of the Bill, and
contended, that it would not have that effect. The,
tirst orovisicin of the Bit*, he ecrnteridekli would fail.— •
The early attendance of the Chancellor in the Haute.,
if I•orer, waWd net jnture the attendance of other
peers. They would not attend now occasionally, and
WA s it to be expected they weidd comply with the pro-
visions of this Bill, which required their attendance
e,gelarly? Thus, the Chancellor would attend in vain,
tia! waste his valuable time to no purpose, whilst a
Deputy, of ksstalents, perhaps; would be sitting in
the Court of Chancery, to ',dispose of the business
there. The Hon. Gentleman then adduced the me-
Motable instance, the trial of Mr. Hastings, as a proof
of the little inclination which existed in the House of
Peers to attenclio private business. That important
prosecution, on the conductors of which the eyes of
tit whole empire bad been turned, had languished for
years, to the disgrate ache public justice of the ctun-
uy. before it was brought to a decision. He was of
Opinion dish This measure, W adopted, instead of relies-
ingtheChaticellor, would increase his labour, andleave
hint less time. The Bill gave the power of appeal from
et,',,. Deputy to the .Chancellor. Was it to be sup-
posed the Deputy would he a person of greater abi-
lity than the present Master of the Rolls ? and was
it to be supposed there would be fewer appeals to the
Chancellor than there were at present ? For this rea-
son, the sill would, in his opinion, proie no remedy
for the evil.—He was one of those who could not see
pie radical objections which bad been stated by his
Nrble Friend to separating the offices of Speaker of
t:"e House of Lords and CninCellor. He was ready
t., allow it was a rdeasUre to be deprecated. It was
certainly expedient and desirable that the person
)ohtlirg tht Great Seal should he Speaker of the
Lords; but he saw nd evil which could arise from a
tonpordry • eparation of the offices till the present
int..si.le of business was a little diminished. He also
thaug'.4.: the Chancellor might derive more assistance
rtan he at present did from the Mastt:r of the Rolls.
Tare were also many thing's which might be done
by the Officers at present existing to release the
Chancellor from labour. If, howeVer, there must be
Some new Officer appointed, let it be to release the
Chancellor from some great branch of his labour.—
The Honourable Gentleman then adverted w the
business of bankruptcies, which, if taken from the
Chancellor; would afford him an opportunity of dis-
posing, of the arrears of causes. The office of Lord
Chancellor, he was ready to allow, should be amply,
nobly, and munificently paid, and so as to enable
him, on his retirement, to support his rank among
the Nobility, He ttumght nothing should be taken
frem it ; but if there was a new Judge necessary, he
should be paid by the Public. His objection to the
Bill was not on motives of economy, but because he
teat persuaded it would fail in its object;—it Would
eerhaps relieve the. Chancellor of dine detctiptiin of
labour, but it would. Impoie another, and probably a
ireater 14hour upon him ; initead of adopting a
measure which would increase the appeals to the
Chancellor, he saggested whether it would not be
Letter that the appeal froM the Master of the Rolls
to the Chancellor shoidd be taken away ? After re-
capitulating hit objection to the Bill, he concluded
by moving, as an amendment, 'a that instead of now,
il..e Bill should be read a seicoad time this litly six
indntilt.'

Mr. M'DONALD said; the fiiit question to be
onsidered was, what part of his duty the Lord Chan-
cellor could, with least danger to the system, be -re-
YE vett Irom t The Chancellor was the guardian of
pibiic and private property in his Court ; dismiss the
Mace and great seal, and let an infeitit 'Sefton sit in
tiv2.Court of Chancery, and let any one say whether
iNeit.a measure would be attended with no difficulty
or danger ? attd it there was to be an appeal to the
Chancellor, to the "Chancellor people would go at
las; ; and therefore . no advantage would be gained
b me Bill. Why not take off from the Chancellor
tin branch of bankrupts business, a branch of busi.
seas which had, irk fact, nothin to do with equity,
but which was said to octupjr a fourth Of the Chan-
tellor's time. It was now proposed to create a new
Judge ; before that measure Was adopted, he thought
it should be first enquired whether there were not
nine Judges already in existence who had time to
spar '1 he Judges of the Courts of Westminster
Hill every one would allow had sufficient to occupy
ttir time ; btit there were persons entitled Welch
Lidges—there were two for each circuit, and so little
had they to da, that the well-known story, " Jack,
wilat are you doing ?"—" Nothing, Sir."—" Tom,
are you about ?"—" Helping Jack, Sir,"-H
'Geld apply to these Learned persons. Theie were
tight of these Judges; four, in his opinion, would be
fully sufficient for the dispatch of the Welch business,
ar,cl the other four would form a most excellent Court
for the dispatch of bankrupts business: But it was
Said the Chancellor drew a considerable portion of
his revenue from this branch of his labours : be it so.
lie had no doubt but the country would be willing
to Pay its first Law Officer, if necessary, 116,000,
cr even £lB,OOO per annum, for the-support of his
dignity. The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to the
part of the Bill which made the Deputy entirely de-
lknclant on the Chancellor, and contended that this
was conixary to the constitutional doctrine, which
said that Judges should be above influence of any
kind. He concluded by declaring his &mutt from
.he ' -)porting the amendment.
supported the measure—a tam-
)udly called for by the state of busi.
of Chancery, and appeals before the
'miler of appeals at this moment statid-
f which number one had been stand-
, seven upwards of eleven years, 39
years, and 77 upwards of five years.
itleman then proceeded to state the
pending before the Chancellor, and
the suitota of the Court must at least

. .
. ' ' ~siaillitFutbUi '' 1 IA 6 or •
alio! an exl Ina en iii d,
them a chance of'` 1-- ' Ittkinin.tita .
IS;
Ilild seen The state selieeil yeaA. _ V'or
- Wit'

upwards of r Stect NIUE2 L netore
the Houle 'Of teinnitnill, Yet tie.those ieartied
and able Gentlemen; vko Jed t eight t)posal the i
preseit ineiiitre, had liiipoied itity remedy for the
evil. The Hon. Gentleitutn 'o:bld not but totitiider,
it as )tighly iinproper, itiodivOst the Lord dtanc*llor
of the powers which he now enjoys hyileciding in
cases of bankruptcy, and to give that power to a per-
son who was merely to be hie Lordsbip's assistant..
Such a measure *onld be a manifest injustice to
the great commercial interests of this coAutry::
He was sorry that his couittily was so Wsimonious;
in its legal establishments. Even in the Coorts of
Common Law, assistance, in his opinions was (re—
quently wanting, in consequence of the greet in-
crease of business in them Our Judgefffo* have
no leisure as formerly; and he quoted Frirlte'seue De
Laudihw Legum ifiglittp to spew, that in the time of
Henry VI. " the Judges met at eight O'clock in the
forencion, and sat till eleven cOniplete ; and then re-
tired, either to consult with Serfeants ot others, their
Counsel, or else to study the law." such was not
the case in the Common Law Courts'; and the in-
crease of busineis in them is so great, that it it im-
possible for the Lewd Chancellor to receive assistance
from airy of the Puisne Judges, is was the base in
Lbrd Hardivick's time.

Mr. COURTENAY felt malty *refi objec-
tions to the Bill ; so much so, that he would give
his vote against it. One of his greatett objections to
it %vat, that he thought it went to sacrifice the first
judicial dignity in the kingdom. The very great
number of Scots Appeals he considered as improper
to occupy the time of the icduse of Lords, when they
might be detided in that 'country, where it mutt be
supposed the law and the fact would be tnore easily
laid down, from their tnore near acquaintance *ith
both. For his own part, lie thought a separation of
the jurisdiction in cases of bankruptcy from the other
business in the Court of Chancery, might be very
safely made. Amongst the other Courts in West-
minster Hall, there might easily be found a judge to
proceed in equity, by taking on hint the decision of
the bankrupts y cases. The arrear oftauses in the
Court of Exchequer *tete as great, it not greater,
that tbdse in Chancery ; and it this principle were
acted upon application thight soon be made for assis-
tance to the Judges in that Court. The Hon. Gen-
tleman concluded by opposing the Bill.
Mr. SMITH said, that the very facenf the Report
of a Committee on the delay in the hearing of Ap-
peals Mewed that four-fifths of the Appeals in arrear
were from Scotland. Why then did they not, rather
than resorting to this new expedient, look for a re-
medy f.r this evil in.the country where that evil ori-
ginated ? The natural course, in his opinion, would
be, to rectify still further the mode of proceeding in
the Scotch C6urts. It had been proved by Mr. Cow-
per, in the House of Lords, that 19-20ths of the Ap-
peals which came before their Lordships are vexa-
tious and dilatory. He considered as highly dan-
gerous to destrby, by way of experiment, the highest
judicial authorities in the eountry.
Mr. Serjeant BEST considered the evil of deliy in
the hearing of Appeals in the House of Lords as
amounting to a positive denial of justice, and should
be assuaged by some such measure as proposed by the
present Bill. Added to the increase of appeals from
Scotland, those froth Ireland had been also brought
under the jurisdiction of the House Of Lon!c. For
this reason, and the general increase of business in
Chancery, he would support the motion.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR propoSed that one of the
Lhsv Lords Would sit as Speaker of the House or
Lords, in order that the Lord Chancellor might ale:
ply to the other business of his stations; as had been
done frequently by Lord Hardwick,. If any lawyer
(said Mr. Taylor) will take upon himself to say the
Bill will remedy the evil complained of, I will
vote for it.— An Hon. Member here called out
will."—(4llauj4). Mr. T. however declined taking
his opinion on the subject.
Mr. CANNING contended, that with all dill, re-
spect to the House of Lords, that House would not
be justified in adopting a measure merely because it
came down to them from thiutlier. It was against
argument and 'common sense to assume, that because
the evil originated with the Lords; they, (the Com-
mons) ought to have more confidence in the remedy
they proposed. His I-lon. and Learned Friend had
complained that the subject had been treated with too
mach levity, but he (Mr. C.) maintained that there
'were circumstances which might make ridicule not
incompatible with serious and Sober discussion. There
were two ways of removing the evil complained of—
one was to empty the reservoir, the other to stop the
channel—the one to get rid of the causes already on
hand, the other to prevent new ones cbtning. This
measure, he was of opinion would increase the evil, as
it would oblige the Lord Chancellor to try the causes
twice instead of once. It would be no degradation
to the House of Lords if they were to resort to mlea-
sureb similar to those formerly adopted by the House
of Commons, in order to insure a sufficient attend-
ance to facilitate the dispatch of business. Such a
determination would soon lessen the evil complained
of and make any other remedy unnecessary. The
present measure was perfectly inadequate, and it
was ridiculous to talk of sending it to a Corn-
mittee, to be made what it ought to be. To go
into a Committee on it would be to throw away
their labour and their time ; and he, therefore,
thought the House ought to stop till they could sup-
ply a more satisfactory remedy. He could assure
his Honourable and Learned Friend under the Gal-
-I.7ry, (Mr- Stephen) that he had no wish to provoke
levity ; but the House could not but latigh to see the
mountain had produced such a mouse. The unwill
lingness of the Learned Gentleman (Mr. Stephen),
to countenance any thing like levity on this occasion,
brought to his recollection the language of Master
Stephen) in Every Man in his Hirmour, who was of opi-
nion" that every thing should be done gravely, and in
a gentlemanly manner,and that nothing but scllemnity
should prevail." (4 laugh.) Mr. Canning then corn-
mented at some length on the restrictions under which
'the new Officer proposed to be treated by this Bill
would labour. Serra in the plays Menge in the farce,
and Sancho Panzai compared with him, were judges
of definite jurisdiction. Like Sancho, the Vice-chan-
cellor would have the oases prepared and laid before
bids, and his.judicial authority would afford matter
of werrinacot to all Litualtind. Hu objected to this

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1813.
PRICE OF' STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE 0 CLOCK:
104 5811—Cons. 581 i—eons. for ac. 584 f —4 per Ct. Vl}
Sper Cent. 881—Pd.. B‘. 3s. clic —l.g Anne. 1.1 1-16th
Exch. bills 4s. 55. pr.—Omniuru nothing done.

Paris Papett to tilt Bth inst. hat,: been received.
IThey contain an article of immense length on the
subject of the provitions considered to be necessary
for the Administration of France, in the absence or
in the event of the demise of BONAPARTZ. It is a
dry and unintefesting technical documbnt, 64 of no
use to any:person but the others."

By far th'etnost important and most agreeable ins
telligence these Papers contain, is that which relates'
to the once Grand Armyt The VICBROY, the new
Lieutenant-General, ♦ice MURAT, dismissed the sera'
vice, informs his blastel• fi-om Posen, that on the
26th ult. the remounts of horses for the Gtand Army
were arriving with great rapidity. But Danttic can-
not be safe ; for great pains are taken by the aforeiald
Victrc;y, to prove that it is provisibited for five years!
—Notwithstanding of all this, however, it is our
humble opinion that it will not hold out five days
from the day on which the Russians break ground
befbre it. It is now completely insulated—the
French and their allies have been driven across the
Vistula ; and although they pretend that they keep
up strong comthunications from Dantzic to Thorn,
their avowal that they are obliged to rendezvous at
Posen, and the flight of the KING of PRUSIIA from
Berlin to Ereslaw, are sti-ong indications that they
have no hopes of retaining a single inch of ground
in• Prussia. But Dantzic is not the only place for
which they are alarmed ; Stettin, Custrin, and Glo-
gau are also provisioned for a year. In other words,
these places are also given over by the Physicians.—
They are all at this moment, perhaps, garrisoned
by the Russians.

gERTIIIERy the Prince of Neufchatel, has had a se.
♦ere attack of gout in the stomach. The climate of
Russia has, no doubt, effected this inroad upon his
constitution. He may be regarded as now hor: du
combat, and in him BONAPAATE has lost a most able
and zealous coadjutor.

MActioNistn, the Duke of Taientutit, has also re-
tired in disgust. On arriving at Dantzic with the
10th corps, he gave up the command to General
RAPP, and we shall 'war no more of him. This 10th
corps was 30,000 sstrong, even after the defection of
the Prussians, according to former French statements.
But it has hem infested by the Cossacks for a full
month at least since. The truth seems, therefore, to
bei that pooz. DlA.cnoxm.a had no longer any men to
command when he arrived at Dantzic.
Private letters from the coast of FranCe, of the 9th
instant, .state, in the most positive and undisguised'
terms, that a serious misunderstanding exists between
Austria and Franlei occasioned by the peremptory
demands of the latter, that Austria shall augment

•
•
tier anziliqrry *engem or trot*.
Lion the litter has Oren a night 'ref*, ard
has express 4 actermination to eye any far-
ther suers than those iliekly it the iiisposal of
Franie. These fetters also ft old, thin Scam.
411.1141101 f *at eiteCtia Ito depart miery hoirr co
miiiion to thfs'ttioniw.

~•

THE LETTkA oil THZ #l,l7iPeiti . .
This letter has this Moretti( publisheil by 1147..
M' LL AN, Bay.itreet.:-:-.Witether h Ought to besitaii.
sidcred as official,. we cannot deterthese, but irons the.
circunistar_ces which stand roe nected* w?th the letters
we think it may be inferred that all the !natters reli-
die to the separation of the two Illustrions Persocages,
will soon be brought before the public in ahont'e shape
or other.
If we may CieJit the reports in circulation, the
CoMinissiorfeYs appointed by his MAJZSTY in 1806,
t(via. Lord ERS/CINE, then Lod MaliceHor; Lord
GMAT/VILLE, Lord SPANC Las and Cord tt.t.iNftottot-oit)
to inquire into the conduit of the fllustriOut Pei-
r.onage, gave a complete acskuittal as to the thaiet
charge brought against her I but, rumoni says, that
the Noble Cofnmissiattert stated, that other stliote
ciicumatances had been :Worn to, whith gave occa.
sion to tinfatotirible imputations, which Went
ins of the consideration of his Ma..rasit. After a
long defence, prepared, as it is Said, by Mr. Pkiei•
.
VAIA Lord EL k, altd TitOhlAS Ptoaten, the
above report was Confirmed by his Maiirri's then
'confidential set'vants, and it was 'upon this body of
evidence that dseleoi was kePated for pUblitation.
A chatige of Ministers took plake on the 25th Of
March, 1807, which brotaght the legal advlseii oi
her Royal Highnesi into pow* They rev iied the
proceedings; and on the 21st Of Aptit,
of Cabinet, declared not only that the tsi-6 mats
chirges were cathPletelydisproted, kit thir, in Air
opinion, all the other partictilark of conduit brought
in accusation against the iilnstriout perionage, were
either satisfactorily contradicted, or rested upon sti.
dente of such a nature, and given under such
cumstances as rendered it, in the judgment or his
Majesty's confidential seitants, undeser'ing of credit.
Upon these two verdicts the public and posterity
will have to decide ; nor can we think that the day
is very distant when the whole of the elm:initial:A
•werbatint will be exhibited-.

.._.~~ ~~

NAVAL INIELL?GENCE.
PLYMOUTH, FEBRUARY 10.
Came in the Mary, Thames, Harbinger, Pnd Maier
ter transports, from Corunna, and ate sailed again
for the Eastward.-.-Arrived the Pt'ways frigate;
from a crnize.—Sailcd the CoLissos Man of si•ar to
the Westward and the Miss frigate, for Ports.
mouth.—:Wind S.W. •

the Bill, and supp
Mr.
STEPHE
st,
_ re which was lot
nat s in the Court
rcts• The num
ing were 273, of
g twenty years,
L
i?.vi4rds of seven
Ron. Gentl
rv'.ll:ikr of causes
"4-tiveds that th