Star.
London, England, 1806-05-22 00:00:00

NORFOLK,

Gi Moakley, the ad day of June, teo6, at the Angel Inn, Bury
t. leimunds, Suffolk, at Is o'Clock, in Five Luta,
A MUSE' delirahle and compalt Freehold Eflale,
1. 36.•coo.filtiq of the Manor of Sporle with Palgrave, with the
Maned Houle. e.dIedSPORLE HALL, and about ISo° Acres of
Arable, Msadow.and Failure Land,divided Into compad Farms,
each of them in a Ring vane, Swam at Spode, Great Falgrave,
Little Palgrave, Dunham, North Fickenham, Newton, Neeton,
Swaffhara, and Franlham, in Norfolk. The Eftate is In a good
Sporting Country, and in a neighbourhood abounding with Game.
It adjoins to the Town of Swaffbans, is about fifteen Miles from
Lynn. and about twenty from Norwich. and there are about co
Acres of Woodland attached to the Hall Farm, which will be
fold with the Manor. . .

Mcirrs. Wm Pearfn, Castar Newton. and Thomas Wells, the
Tenants, will thew the premifes, and printed particulars may be
had at the Chambers of Greene, Tennant. and Marlton, Gray's
Inn, London ; ot Mr joitelyn, Surveyor, Beiftead, near Ipfwich;
at the Angel Inn, Bury; at the Swan, Swaffharn ; at the Angel,
Norwich; at the Proprietors of the Cambridge Paper; of Willa.
Eaton and Hammond, Newmarket ; and of the retpettive Tenants
upon the Premlfes.

A DESIRABLE RESIDENCE.
To be SOLD by.PRIV./LTE CONTRACT.
AVERY complete and convenient Manfion Houle,
con Siting of a Vellibule and Stone Staireafe, a Library 36
by 18. an Eating Room 36 by 20, Drawing Room 29 by 211.
Houfekeeper's Room, Laundry, Servants' Hall, Eight good Bed
Chambers on the Firft Haar, and eleven other Sleeping Rooms,
complete and Roomy Stables, Brewhoufe, and every other Office,
with the lawns, Gardens, Plantations, Farm Houk, Barns, Sta-
bles land and Preinifes adjoining thi, fame. containing 280 Acres
or thereabouts all inclofed, and thing molt eigibly arranged for
occupation. forms a molt defirable Reiidence for a Gentleman, the
Hook and Offices having been lately very much improved and
rendered completely comfortable. 'l'he whole is in the punkt:lion
aE B.trington Pr.ce, fq. the Proprietor.
The Purchafer may have polfeffion now, or at Michaelmas nest,
and, if defirable, take to the Growing Crop and Stock as well as
the Furntture which is moitly new and in high order.
Cerncy is Bunted in a delightful, dry, plcafant, acid healthy part
of the County of Gloucelter, four Miles from Cirenceitrr, twelve
front Cheltenham, thirty Se from Bath, and ninety from Loudon,
and in an excellent Sporting Country abounding with Game.
For particulars and to treat, apply to Mr. Murland, Abingdon,
who will give written permiffion for any perfon to view the Houfe
and Prenufes.

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HAMBURG!! Mil/L.
.....-- . .
APIIITiIDANI. MAY 13.—1 t is undeelood that the
Ems will likewife loon be opened to the nav;gation
of the Engfirm ' • .
Views, Aretz 28.—War againft the Republic of '
the Seven Iflands is as good as declared, and vont. ' • •
millions for privateers to cruize againft their refill ' •••1•
are already iffued. .t '
NAPLIS, Aram 14 —Near Reggio, on the Strait
which feparates the kingdom of Naples from Skilyb, 'V
there is a camp of 25,000 troops : great preparations '
are making for the conqueft of Sicily.
&JILIN. MAY I3.—Since the appointment of
Count Keller as Third Minifler of State, ilkveral*
councils have been held at fome of which the .King
prefided. The fubjed of them was, a confideration
of the effcas which the meafures taken agaioft Eng-
land have produced, and the confequencea their
adoption have already had upon Praia. On there
points differences have arife. between Count Haug►
wits and Count Keller ; the former failing upon the ,
expediency of perfeveting in the fteps already taken,
while the latter maintained the neceffity of an entire
change of policy, from a confideration of the ruinous •
effeas which had happened. The King is raid to
have been fo impreffed with the propriety of Count
Keller's reafoning, as to have defired him to fuggeft
the means he thought molt likely to leadto reconcilj-
ation, and to avert from his fubjeets the evils which
threatened them. Cos.nt Haugwitz, it is Paid, has
felt fit much at this, that he demanded leave to retire
f• a- a few weeks, to his eftates in Silefia, which has
been granted. The firft flep taken by Count Keller,
has been to fend ()Hers to all the Prullian ports in
the Baltic, not to ()baron the entrance or departs*,
of any Britifh (hips, but to treat them in a friendly
manner.
BeANIDENBARC, MAY t¢.—Orders have been re-
ceived at Stettin, Colberg, and other Pruffian ports
in the Baltic, not to oppote in any manner theentrance
lof Englith (hips ; but, on the contrary, to receive
them in the molt friendly way. It is expelled that
•Pruflia will yet take other meafures advantageous to
'England $ from which it is concluded that a good
underftanding will fhortly be eftablifhed between *a
1 two Courts.— F one the NanhurghCoreefpondent, May 161
VIIIIINA, MAT I.—General Andrenfry left this
city yetterday; before his departure, he wrote a let-
ter to Count de Wobna, Minilter of the Imperial
Cabinet, in which he expreffes, in the ftrongeft man-
! ner, his gratitude, his refpeet, and his elleem for the
iEmperor, whole tentiments and virtues he highly
extols. M. Rochefoucault, it appears, will make a
long (lay here, fince he yefterday received feveral
carriages laden with goods and baggage.
It was yefterday notified upon 'Change, that no
Englifh goods are in future to be lent to Switzerland. ...
—The prefent quantity is eftimated in value at tso
naillinns of livres.
The news from the fouthern parts of Bavaria is
moll afiliding. In many diftrifts the poor are re-
duced to the necelfity of living on roots.
Aucsauao, MAY 5.—Orders have been given to
all the Regiments of the Bavarian Royal Army to
hold themfelves in readinefs to march at twenty•four
hours notice; on the other hand, it is expeded that
the columns of Auftrian prifoners that were on their
march for Upper Suabia have received frefh orders
to halt.

May S —One thoufand waggons, laden with big.
cults, fet nut ycfterday for Donauwerth, where the
biccuits will he embarked, and fent to Braunau.

Ls Irmo, MAY 3.—The news from Vienna, re-
ceived this morning, is.of a very tranquillizing na-
ture. The good underhanding which appears to
fubfill between the Courts of France and Vienna
feems to infure peace. The Court of Vienna has
not only accorded to France the full paffage for an
army through Iftria for Dalmatia, which was the
principil °bre of the negoelation entrufted to Ge-
neral Andreoify, but it. has alto entered into engage-
ments, by which it is drawn into a very chafe alliance
with the Emperor Napoleon. It has formally fanc-
tinned and recognized all the exchanges of territory,
and all tlfe newly created Principalities, Which pre-
cceded and have followed the treaty of Freiburg. It
has even renounced all fyftems of neutrality, in the
event of France being engaged in a war with any
power whatever, on account of there innovations I
Ind it has engaged to aft with ailive hotlility againtt
all powers that mar make war with France on ac.
count thereof. We are politively Allred, that this
new treaty of amity is the rehilt of long and impor-
tant negotiations which have taken place on toe tub-
i.er, an..., which are at length terminated. It is added,
[ha: the treaty will be wit I,ut delay.
Cnnitraponsorta, Aram to—Nlicheb Effendi.
Amtratrid•rr t; ttm the Sublime Porte to the Emperor
of the Fmnch, let out on the 29th of March, for
Paris. Betides the Drogoman of the Embaffy, he
took with him another, who had been estacbcd to
the French legation.

~~

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Hi.

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•
Y.

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?ARLMMENTART PROChADYAGS.

HOUSE OP COMMONS, WEDNESDAY, MAY If.
A new writ was ordered to be Iffued for Welto'. -eistid, in the
room of Michael Le Firming, dreeafed.
POtta LAWS.
Mr. WHITBREAD role to give notice, that early
in the next Sefton of Parliament he firmld have the

honour of preparing Some regoiationa for the amelio-
ration of the Poor Laws of this country. He hoped
to be indulged in a few words of explanation of hi;
intantions beyond what was nfual upon giving no-
tices its this way. The Poor Laws of this country
had grown into a fyllem fo complicated and embar-
raffing, and were become Tuch a heavy and hid ear
ing ezpenee upon the country, that forte' revirion of
them wai abfolutely neCeirary. He had had a project
of this native in contemplation for tome years pall,
which had occupied much of his attention; but lie
tonnd it extremely difficult to reduce it to a (liaise in
which en offer it for the confederation of Parliament.
r , One of two things fretted netelfary in this cafe, either
to finsplify the prelim Poor Laws, by dame fhorr,
clean, and comprehenfive plan, or to fuggell fame
new regulations for remedying their deltas, and
checking the abufes which continued to obtain under.
theni as they now Rood. To neither of thefe modes
wonld hr at this moment fpecifically pledge himfalf;
but he timid, however, early in the next Sefton,
.prhpole to the Houfe fame plan upon the fubjed.
VI ROSE Li& that he too had had in concern-
; platton; for a confiderable. tittle, a proporition of a
fitnilar nature, and that en intimation of his purpofe
bad been given to the Houfe above two years fince,
which, however, from a variety of other itidirpenfable,
avocations and impeafimenis, he had hitherto bees
prevented from bringing b:fore the Houfe. He was
.. *augustly glad of the intention now avowed by the
• Hie* Member, and lhould be happy to render tb
that purpofe every :.id in his power. One part of
thoarropofition, which he (Mr. Rige) had in view,
yrs tp provide employment for the Poor; and thereby
to Magda their own indollry as effeaive as polfible
towards their maintenance.
Mr., WHITBItEAD anfwered, that certainty a
•
oorpofer.to very important had not efcaped his *men•
lion, but would form a leading feature of his plan.
angoras To THE IIt•NADSIS OT THE IMPEACHMENT.
The SECRETARY at WAR gave notice, that
• • hapould, on Tuefslay next, propoft to the Houfe a
• motion of Thanks to the Parliamentary Managers of
• Lod Melville's Impeachinent, for their laudable eon-
• dtia is tbe whole of that bufinefs.
• AAAAA CA ACCOUNTS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
, ♦ rale android, that, before he proceeded to call the
attention of the Houfe to the important fuhjeet of
which he had given notice for this days it would be
neceffary for him to fay a few words, in alluflon to
vijiat had mired in the Houk on a former night,
upon the fubjed of Barrack Expenditures. It would
be in the recollection of the Houfe, that on that night
a motion had been made by an Hon. Gentleman
(W. Rolifon), for the groduition of tome papers re-
(pelting the bufinefs of the Barrack Department, one
of which papers the Houfe had thought proper to
grant ; but tae Hen. Gentleman's motion for others,
• the Houfe had been pleated to refufe, by a vote fdr the
previou,queflion. Upon that occafion, he was at
fame lots to learn what was the particular (sh)ied the
Hon. Gentleman had in view, and he now flattered
himfelf, that he had difcovered the °Ned, and that
it related to Come thing which took place in the Ifle
of Wight in the year tilos, relpeiting the employ-
ment of a number cf barns, as barracks for, his Ma.
i jelly's troops in that ifland, at a moll extravagant
Mice ; and to Come propofition which had been made
in a letter,to the then Secretary at War, relative to
the building of barracks there. He fhould now there-
fore, as he underftood the °Neil, move for. the pro.
duaion of thofe papers, which the Hotife had thought
proper to refufe on .a former night ; and. he moved
accordingly for a copy of a letter from Mr. Day,
builder, in the Ifle of Wight, to the Barrack-Mager
garSraancdkos r
io that di :an cl °wring ferviseprioSaol:hfeurrpabuildingpe ri
* . Laing to the fame fubjed. •
Mr. ROBSON role to expects tome aftonifbncent,
at the conduit of the Noble Lord throughout the'
whole of this Wined. Feeling it to be his privilege
and right as a Member of Parliament to call for
certain documents refpeding the extravagant expen-
diture of the public money, he had given four days
notice of his intention to move for thole documents,
that there might be no intention imputed to him of
walling to take the Houfe by forprixe. He accor-
dingly made his motion, which he prefaced by Inch
oblervations as he thought could leave no doubt up-
on the mind of any Gentleman who heard him, as to
the object of his motion, and the intention with which
he meant to follow it up. The Noble Lord thought
prover to refill his motion, and to vote for the pre-
vious quellion ; but now, w ben the extravagance of
t!.e hart ack dcpartmewand the extraordinary oppb-
fition of tier N oi)le Lord to his motion for papers to
p•ov‘: that cetravagance, were in the mouth of every
rran why) calked the public flied., the Noble Lord
lornielf moved fora lilt thofe very documents
hirh he wally beliesed was a copy .‘t the identical
nr,tion. which had been telufed upon i I,onter night.
Re Illy he thooi;lit it but rsainnabLf to cxpt el, that
t',e Noble Lord's motion this day would have been
accompanied by tome apology for a Ctaidt.Cl so un-
eccountable.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQyER
anfwered, that fur the Honfe he lhould certainly offer
no apology, for refitting, on fuch grounds as it thought
fit, to comply with the motior. ullnded to ; and for
himfelf be thought it diffident to nate, that he was
nor, on the former night. made acquainted with the
Honourable Gentleman's objets, to jai& him in
• affenting to his motion. He now was acquainted
with the purpofes of his motion, and therefore mov-
ed to produce the papers in queflion.
Mr. ROBSON role to explain, but was proceeding
to a length which occafioned a general cry of Choir!
awir 1 upon which the SPEAKER reminded the
Honourable Member of the Order of the Houfe, and
he down.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER'S
motion was, then agreed to.
maim •CitrUNTS, AND WEST INDIA ANUSES.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER in j
opening the plan relative to the public accounts,,
fpukc nearly as follows : " Although, Mr. Speaker,/

the immediate objets tehieb I have in view, is-the'
repeal of the late alt. appointing Commifliosierl col
examine into if* frauds and abufes committee in flie,l
Well Indies, with fubltituting a more efficient meal;
fure in its !lead—although, Sir, this be my immediate.'
olielt, yet it is
,my opinion, and I Unit the Hook
will agree with me, that 1 oleo not to let flip this:
opportunity of (lacing generally thole meafures'
which his Majelly's Government are to propofe, for
the examining and palling the public account!. If,
in fo doing I fhall trefpafs for Come' time on the
patience of the Houle, and enter at Tome leingth into
the plan, fill I hope 1 need make no apalogy, as
am calling the attention of Gentlepsen to a dirty of
pecbliar importance to every Member of the Houle
of CoinmOntr, and one to whiter his molt affiduoust
exertions to be devoted. I beg the.indulgencei
Oahe Ho}lfe, while I Rate a few eircuiinaritaiti with
the intentinh of bringing this fubjedmerre complete-
ty under their view. At a confiderable period back,
the Adminillration ot the Public Accounts was com-
mitted to two officers, but withobt any cited ual cot-
ttoul or check. That happened which might be ex-
pelled in Inch a 'cafe: tilde officers, like other officers
who are allowed to remain without any Check or con-
trout, became, if notentirely ntelefs, at lea ft of much lets
utility than they ought teohave been. The natural
confequence of all this was, that the Officers, though
they remembered well that they bad falatiel to get,
Teemed almoft to forget that they had any duty to per-
form, of tootle the bullock was very much neglelled.
In this filuation it feemed neceffary that things lliould
grow work before they turned better, and the Ame-
rican war did us thisgood office at leall. So compli-
cated, In unintelligible, and fo embarraffed did the
accounts become during the American war, that tl
reform almoft necellarily followed. Under the three
(port adminiltrations which fuceeeded the conclidion
of that war, a fpirit of reform was fouled, which ex-
tended to the Adminiaration of the Right lion.
Gentleman who preceded me in this office, and who
is now no more. The attention of the Right Hon.
Gentleman was therefore naturally called to the atol
diting ofthe Public Accounts, and to the defeats which
prevailed in the offices connected with this bufinek.
They were, indeed, fo very impeded that it was
impctlible the fubjed could have creeped his atten-
tion. The officers, it feems, could not call the
accountants before them and force them to pals their
accounts, and from the nature ot their conflitution
a fingular abufe wok. The matter was fo con-
trived that the fees of the different officers depended
on the number of :Kenitra which they paffed, fo that
he who was determined to do his duty Ifridly, and to
examine narrowly into any account that came into his
hands. was left almoft without any bufinefs or feet;
while he who was moll negligent of his duty, who
palled accounts withdut being very particular as to
the Panels or amount of the charges, was in high
employment, and had his office crowded with ac-
countants and with fees. If the vouchers were re.
gitlarty drawn up. this *IS all that was here requir-
ed. No particular inquiry was made as to the na-
ture ot the vouchers, and the manner in which they
had been procured. The confequence certainly was,
as may be preformed. without fear of being in error,
that great frauds and Auks were committed. Under
theft circumfiances t e Right Hon. Gentleman now
no more, to whom I befor e adverted, law that Come
chansre was neceffary in the management of the
Public Accounts, and accordingly, in the year t 785,
a Bill was brought in appointing five Commigioners
for the adminiltration of the public accounts. Now
let it be obferved here, that whatever oblervations I
may find it neceffary to make refpeding the MCii•
lures of that Right Honourable Gentleman, I do
not mean any dig-ref-pet to his memory, or to deny
the goodnels of his intentions. That his meafures
on this head failed is certainly very much to be
afcribed to the prodigious accumulation of boluses
that has taken place fince they were propelled. The
Officers appointed by him were enabled to can, for
account!, to examine parties on oath, and to go
through every Ilep that ceitild be neceffary to enable
them to come to a jag and accurate final determina-
tion. Of this CommiCGon, the two Army Comp-
trollers formed a part. Thefe two officers were firft
appointed by Lord Godolphin ; and the inftrultions
wbich he gave them are fo coned, fo excellent, fo
neceffary, and fo remarkably well calculated to pro-
duce all the benefits that might be expefted to retail
from the nature of their employment, that I cannot
Nis them over without at kali calling the attention
of the Houk to an abftrad of theie initrudions.—
Thrift Army Comptrollers were to examine into all
the military accounts, into the accounts of the money
aired from the Exchequer for the pay of the army,
the accounts of the arms, provifions, camps, hofpital
and field Mores; into accounts of all cowed+, fo
that no abufe could be pradifed without coming to,
their knowledge. They were alto to infped minutely
into the regimental accounts, aAd the pay of the re-
giments ; and further, they were commanded to re
-
poi t regularly to the Treafury, In that the Hate of the
bonnets was thus tpeedily and fairly put into their
paeans. Now, according to the conttitution of the
Commuffion appointed by the Right Honourable
Gentleman, thefe officers were ex ofrcie declared to be
a part of it. At the (erne time, they had In many
and Inch important ditties to perform in the exa-
mination of the various accounta rel Rive to the
army, that tht useafure which rendered them fart
Of a tommidion, the duties of which the?, might
not be able to execute in addition to thufe which mote.
immediately belonged to their province, cannot cer-
tainly be commended for its propriety or the informa-
tion concerning public bufinefs which it difpLtys.—
They had the accounts of the army expences before
to audit, and their being added to the general Corn-
million only brought with' is. an increnfe of duty,
which diminifhed their uti ity conlidetably in both
capacities. But be that as it may, the Army Copp
trailers were added to this Commillion, of which
they were ex Odo rendered a part. And according-
ly, as trrght have been eafily forefeen, their doties
as Comptrollers were in a great meafore negleded,
nay, almolt entirely ceafed. This may undobbt-
edly be aittibuted to the great preffure of hufinefs
which was brought upon them by their new duties,
and, as tribally happetrt in fuck cafes, finding it im-
poffible rao do all their hufinefs, they lett it tannin
altogether undone. Even their authority was in a,
great locator( loft, or at lean not In much refptfied
as before. They called for accounts, but !bey were
not 'nought, and ttseir orders were dirt egaided.
They very fad= reported oa abides or frauds, sad

rum to bore loft a great part of their original char
meter. Itidelendent of there circunaftatmel it ap-
pears that *Mous Kies were made so the witty, the
accounts of which have not beenlubrpitted to them
at all. The accounts ut the Hofpital, Stores, and,
Field Work., for instance, have during the whole of
rise relent war, been left without any checks what-
ever. The I look will feel the importance of the fuhjefl,
when I tell then), that in the cootie of fix 'years,
iioo,occl. have been iffued to Mr. .Trotter without
my contiottl. In d if-poling of- that Man lite•hasOaed
in different capacitie.--as manufalluter of the ar•
title wanted, as purveyor of them when fo inanufac-
tured, as Itorekeeper, as comptroller of his expendi-
ture, and lafily, as auditor of his own accounts—
(brim, bear!) It may, perhaps, appear furprifing,
that while Minding in all there fituati:ns, and feeling
all the anxiety, and running all the tifks incident to
them, he has had the modefty only to charge to per
cent. over and above all the profits, to which hethinkc
laimfelf fairly entitled I There accounts ate not rub-
,mitted to the Army Comptrollers ; neither have the
accounts of the Barrack Department been fubmitted
-to them, the iffues for which have; during the late
war, beep to the amount of niue milkioss darling:—
But there`acconnts differ from thole of the Hofpital
and Stores in this, that they .are fultjeit to trss exami-
nation of the Auditors in the loft inft.,:ec, where the
accounts of the llnfpi al Stores are (Vial t 4 no
check at all. The accounts of the B' track Depart.
anent ought to lave been examined by the prefent
Commiffion, but fuck are its flotation and emborrafr
meats, that none of them have been infpe4ed. In
all theft fituations have the rifles been made without
the frnallea cheek la conn on). The commission ap-
pointed by the Right Honourable Gentleman was
defective in this, that die C.smpttollera of the Army
formed a part of it, and there Comptrollers were en-
'ableil to give but a very panders attention to the bu-
linefs of the Commitrm, and the confeepence was,
withoirt meaning a refl.:Ohm upon any individual;
that the other Commithouers hetiame more remits in
their duty. Brit there was another evil attending
this Como:Min, which was inherent in Its internal
organization, rind that is, that all the accounts
were first fuionitted to the inferior Officers, who had
the power of wanting a difeharge upon then) before
they came into the hands of the head Beards.—
This circtunflance,, together with the immenfe ac-
cumulation mf bufiners, renslesed the measure of
the Right Manourable Creotleman entirely derecctive,
and loudly called for fnmething to be done to
facilitate this important objeft:' In confequence Qf
this, fevetal attempts were made to increafe the
powers of the Cnmmidirmerso and thirty-five Clerks
were added to iloai office at different times. But,
though there perhaps might be 'ireful, they by no
means afforded that rented) a, to the principle of the
rneafure which was of nrcatlity required. Partial re-
medies then began to he applied to this too, when it
WAS found that the erimmitilon as it flood was not
equal to die ditties which it had to perform. In con-
feculence, therefore, of the frauds and 'tholes which
had been dilcovered to have been practifed in the
Well Indies, and which could not be prevented or
remedied by the commiffion at home, Commitlioners
were appointed in the year 1800, for the exprefs pur-
pate of examining into there particular fluids and
abufes, which had grown to a monflrous height.—
Thefe may have been 'lreful in deteeling ahules and
bringing them to light; but the fyftem was re ar-
ranged, that they have nor been able to bring up
the arrears of the accounts, which remain as before,
and though they have brought aboles to light, yet
they have never been able to do it in fueh a
manner as to enable us to apply the proper re-
medy to thefe abufes, or bring the offenders to con-
dign puniffiment. In the comic of the 101 l year fame
additional attempts were made to improve the mea-
lure a but all had been found to be ineffeaual to
bring up the arrears, and the refult of all is the plan
which I am about to propofe. The Houle will ad-
vert to this, that none of the accounts of the Pay
Office have been paired fince 5782 ; that none of the
barrack accounts (ince the American War ; none of
the accounts relating to the expedition to Egypt,and
the expedition to the Helder, and none of the accounts
of the prefent war have been at all looked into. The
Commillion appointed in 5785 were to call in the
infuper accounts (the Honk I prefume know, that
the iriftiper accountants are thole who were called in
to oat the regular accountants.) Yet fuch was the
preffure of butinefs, and the bad conllitution of the
Commiffion, that it was not till 1795, or ten years
afterward., that any attention was paid to the info-
per accounts. But between that time and the prefent
none of the accounts of the inhiper accountants have
been ex unined at all, and tince the prefent Treasury
Board have come into r Elite, they have called for a
flatement of the number of the infuper accounts, and
after a lapfe of three months, the Commiflioners, it
appears, arc not able as yet to give in a statement, even
of the number. Such, then, is the flare of Cie public
arrears. There are in the Auditor's Office, under
fora minsiion, accounts to the amount of '6.7 millions.
In tire Pry Office for twenty-one years, accounts to
the amount of 150 million.. In the Auditor's Office,
not proceeded upon, to the amount of 58 millions—
and Navy Accounts not delivered in for 9 years, to the
amount I 8c millions, making in all 455millions,being
&moll erpial to the amount of the National Debt.
Hear, hear! Nov:, having flamed this, it mull be nb-
vimis to every one, that it became a moll important
point with us, to provide fame remedy for tats great
and increafing evil. Our attention has been turned
to it, as to one of the molt important fuhjeas that
could occupy our attention, with a view to find out
tome meafure equal to the vailnefi of the thing itfelf.
What the danger is of !wing the public accounts
unpaired for twenty or thirty years, whit, from
perfons dying, the chance of recovery, in cafes of
fraud, is loft, I leave the Houle to confider. What
hazard may thus be incurred of not applying the re.
venue to the purpofes for which it is voted, I alto
leave the Houle to confider. But certain it is this is
a point that ought to engage the ferious attention of
Government, and it is not only on account of the
public, that ,thefe accounts might to I.e examined and
palled as fpeedily as poffible, but alto on .acc,maat of
the public accountant. Fur let it be cunlidetcd what
mutt he the fituation oldie lomat man, who finch that
notwitlitlanding every exertion podible for him to
make, he cannot do its duty. Thus, then, the pre-
fent fituation of the Public Accounts, while it affords
a lade and 's veil for iniquity, draws a cloutrounJ
integrity nu awl can effeCtually third. I (carte

need mention any initarce•of this. Yet there is nt e
which I cannot forbear adverting to. The late Lord
Macariney was Governor of Grenada in 5774, and
had an account of 70,0001. which was not palled, arA
in fpite of eve, y effort on his part, he died without
knowing that he was clear with the public. Whether
that be a fituarion in which the' honed accountant
oughtAccoetno be t
ant
sp.l
nc e fu
ml
tome
n lay n a
nceeed $. notca ir a tko t t
gh v
c Houle.
titles
with their elates, nor difpife of their real property
for wan! of arqtrittarteefram the public. Now, then,
for the means to remedy there defefts, as it is the in-
tention 11 Glares nment to repeal the former Ads,
and to rubltiritte others in their geed, by, which ten
Commillinners are to be appointed to audit the pub-
lic aceouut., t,T be. totally feparate room the Onnr-
trollers of the Atmy Accounts, viho ate to be tc-
ftnred to their franttions, as detailed in the intim -
tions of Lord Godriphir. They, are, elf), in fo.
tore, to have the previous motakaation of, all militat
expenditure whatever. They tire, betides, to he ti -
confidential advice's of fag Treafirvy with refpe.9 t s
all frauds and aborts that they eats Mont in the
military fervice of the control; In coat we stay
always,. in cafes of doubt, have a prorr opinion to •
diraft ,us. 2'hefe will become' therdote, a fort of '
miAttattavoicl, refpeeting the
.whole expenditure of
the army—the whole commilfariot at home and
abroad irT to be put utider their management—they
are to be empowered to call perfons before them,
end to examine them on oath. The ten Covina-
(toners are not to be Members of Parliament i and
the Treafury is to haVi the power of dividing them
into Boards, as the cafe may require. The fit It divi-
finn is to he in three Boards ariling out of this
principle, the complete reparation of the arrears front
the future band's of the accomptants. The Lilt
Board is to confiti of four Comnalioners, with eight
Infpeaurs. This Board is to take up the whole ac-
counts of the expenditure lince the 3111 of December
ha. The fecund Boatd to confifi of three tommif-
fioners and fit Infpeftors, charged with the audit of
all the accounts before the old Board of Auditors,
and already under examination, forming the one
hundred and flirty millions before referred to. The
thi-d B,ard to confiß of three•Commiffioners and fix
lapeelors, is to be charged with the examination and
audit of all arrears of exttaordihary accounts, up to
the 31ft of December hft, including the infoper ac-
counts. By this divifion it is to be hoped that this
insesenfe male, which has been accuMulating for fo
massy years, may at halt be diffolved. The Boards
are to be relieved from the details of Barrack and,
Weil India Accounts. Each Commaorier is to
have a department int the Accounts of which he it
to he perrinallp refponlibli till they are laid befoul
the Board t and this will combine a perrTnal ,cfpon-
fibility with the refponfibility of the Conrimitliunerii
as Boards, a thing which may lie eipefied to he at-
tended with the bell etTals. As it is the object of
Government to hav: the berießt of this tile-Jure with
as little charge to The country. as peffible, provilioa
has been made by which the number of Commillion.;
err (hall be diminillied as their fervicas become iinne-
ceffarv, and they ate, therefore, to be gradually re-
duced from ten to fix, with this additional feeurity
to the public, that when a Commiflioner dies hi is not
to be replaced without the content of Parliament
Having now, Sir, Hated the general plan lvhich is id
corttemplation for auditing the public accounts, I
fhall proceed to that part of the Arlie& which is
more immediately to be confidered. The aburet
which have taken place in the Well Indies have goae
to an enormous extent. Frauds and forgeries were
committed out of number. The powers of the late
Commifflon were too narrow. It was his objeft,
therefore, to appoint a Commiliion with powers
much more exteurive—which may call perfons be-
fore them, examine them on oath, difallow account.,
or allow them with a certificate. It is intended to
refer the rep: its of the former Commiffiiners to the
new Commillion. The enormity of the frauds arid
abufes %%ere loch, that they often confounded the Of.
Leers who were to invelligate them. Under theft.
circumllances our defign is to repeal tote former Aft,
and to rubdittite another more effeetual in its (lead,
and having done this, I may conlcientioully fay that
we believe we are doing right (hear, hear !) and that
if the remedies propoled fluff be found insufficient,
we (hall carefully attend to them, and provide fuch
amendments from year to year, as shall at /all render
the Cominiffi•sn adequate to the ends of its eflablifh-
ment. These is rite thing occurs to me in the
general plan, which I lborild be lorry to have
omitted, and that is, that in the Bill which I (ball
prnpure, provili n than be made for compelling
every Accountant to bring forward his aicount, whe-
ther the whole is made up or not, fo that the public
Winds may be managed in the fame manner as that
of a private merchant, and there is no reafon why it
Ihould not. The Commiflioners will thus know the
money iffued, and the balances, and the Auditors
will be compelled to examine every account within
e eighteendy m
moving
nv months is a t
f)
us
r leavefait I it clo iLdfhnoraiip collfonrcluthde-
britingis
more effectual Prevention of Frauds and Abufes in
the Well Indies.

Mr. ROSE hoped the Hours would allow him to
fay a few words. He tibferved that the We'Wadi&
Commiffioncrs had confined themfelves to making re-
portk, without attempting to audit the accounts. He
contended that whatever good had been done in thes
auditing of the cccoiti.ts. had been owin to los
g_ Right Honourable V, fiend now no more. What I e
had done was. to be lure, not la perfect in every 1..
fpel at fink as could have been willed, bit then I is
certainly had views of bringing the matter to gre..,
perfection. He alfcrted, that Comptrollers of
Army had full time to do their duty as Comn
(loners. Alter adver tit.g to the caulks of the arry.ti
in the public aecnunts. he faid, that the great nor-
page was the:War.ollce. As to the Well•lncia
abufes, be had Uncovered there bimfelf, and had ad-
sired the appointment of the Commifllon to larval•
gate them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,in
explanation, observed, that it was not to the addi-
tional number of the Commillioners that he looked
for fccutity, but to the alit:ration of the principle.
• Mr. Secretary FOX declared that he gave the
Right Honourable Gehileinah (Mr. Role) hill Cr. dit
for the accuracy it hi. flatentrii. ; lie knew that t} at
Right Hunuttrab:e Menibtr wa, parcely well ac-
quainted with the iteuipar,t arc and the th„
-tier in 'which they mere :tilt :; ied into w, t
are called Pailiamentary T.at Rig t

•
Ht nouraMe Gentleman mutt alto be thoroughly con.'
vinced of the inaccuracy which fomelimes may una-
voidably take place in thefe publications, from the
.ii batty mterie. in which their ll:dements are made up.
r For his own part it. was impollible for him to fay.
whether the t eport of a debate that took place twenty
year, tince, w.s perleßls entre& or not.
Mt. YORKE Rated, that all the delays in auditing
the accounts in the War Department, were to be at
tributed ro the fame caufe, namely, that the bulimic
had t vergrnwn the means of expediting it. He
agreed moll cordially as to the neceffity of fomefuch
streafure as that which the Noble Lord bad brought
toward, but would not pledge himfelf to a fupport
of all the details of the plan,, which might be thought
by the Noble Chancellor of the Exchequer, to be a
proper remedy Int loch abufes or irregularities as may
be found to elfin.
Mr. WINDHAM, in explanation, obferved, that
the Rigitt Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Role) had
had a better opportunity than he had of afcertaining
• $ what was the real Hate of the bufinefs in the War
Departu.ent, as lie had been in office during a time
of peace as well as war. When he was in office, he
could ftate,,that the tradtimen's bills, which were
fent as vouchers. were compared with the regular
official accounts ; and that, he believed, was all that
was at that time in their power to do.
Mr. BRAGGE BATH ults.r concurred with an
Hon. Member, who had fpoke before, as to the ne•
ceffity of introducing Come legiflative provili tit, like
that which had been this night slated. At the fame
time. however, he did not think it was right to cen-
lure clerks indifcrircinately, when,generally (peaking,
they had made as much exertion al, circumffances
would poflibly admit of.
The SECRETARY at WAR confirmed what fell
from every one of his predecelfors, as to the impoQi.
bility of forwarding the accounts in the War Depart-
ment tinder the prefent fvßem.
Lord CASTLEREAGH defended the flatements
of the ltiAlit Hon. Gentleman, (Mr. Role) and de-
clared that, to his knowledge, the progrefa of the
public accounts were completely arrelted, in the of-
fices to which the debate referred.
Mr. ROBSON thanked the Noble Chancellor of
the Exchequer for his having brought forward the
prefent plan ; and hoped that the names of defaulters
would be expofed, in order to prevent the future from
happening again. We never had a Chancellor of the
Exchequer before that was Co manly as to make a
public declaration of his difcovery of the moll exten-
Eve abaft, and hit determination to provide againli
the recurrence of fuch abufes in future.
THE ARMY PSTIMATES.
The Houle having gone into a Cominittce of Sep-
ply, on the motion of the Chancellor of the Etche-
qua, the Secretary at War's Accounts, and thole
lately prefented by Mr. Vartfittart, were, purfoant to
a prevtous order to that died, taken into 'confidera-
don by the Committee.
The SECRETARY at WAR then rote to move
his refolutions grounded on thofe Minutes : The
eitirctates of the indent year differed but little in their
amount from aloft of the preceding year. He could
:t not withhold his tribute of praife from the illuftrioua
Commander in Chief under whore aulpices the army
bad been railed to its preterit Rate, in which it was the
objet of his Majelly's Government to preferve it, and,
if poffible, to augment it. In preparing the ellimates
for the prefent year, they had turned their attention
to what all men, converfant in military affairs, knew
to be one of the great leading principles of economy,
and that was to make the difproportion between the
real effeftive army and the number voted as fmall as
poffible. If it did not appear in the prefent ettimates
that there was a confiderable diminution of expence,
it was becaule many augmentations had taken plate
in the courfe of the lag year, particularly in the et-
valry, the ordnance, end the waggon train, a confi-
&Table diminution in the expence of which was
now propofed. In the cavalry, the regiments were
to be reduced from tOOO to 800. The foot guards
were to be reduced from 140 men a company to
130, and the waggon train was to undergo a diminu-
tion of 1728 men. The difference which this would
I make in the eltimates of the prefent year would be as
, foilow, :
Saving by Redualosit In Cavalry £35.5.000
Ditto root Guards - 18,eo0
Ditto Waggon Train • 90,030
. ..--
Total raving by Reductions - 363,000,
In the whole of the ellimates (including the Volun-
teers), there would be a diminution of 934, t 0. from
which, it the diminution whit refpeet to the expence
of Volunteers was fublirafted, which amounted to
472,0001 them would remain 4620921. as the total
diminution of expences, in confequence of the reduc-
tions to be made.
General TARLETON then rote, and requefted
the Right Hon. Gentleman to Rate the items which
made up this total En. He could underfland how
the 363,0001. might be faved by the teduCtions in the
cavalry, the font-guards, and the waggon train ; but
lie could not fee what was to tweil this rum to
462,1921.
The SECRE'I'A RY at WA R continued, and laid,
that he hoped, in the cootie of his ll.ttement, to lets'',
the Honourable General. He Mould firft proceed to
Rate the total amount of out effective force at home
and abroad, including the troops let ving in India,
and the fecund battalions. He fhould take doh num-
ber at the following periods :
IR at January t ;:c6
of May stn(- - '2,10 ~15
sit
;150,994

17,041

Tt appeared, therefore, that while our a:my liras
incteafed by ahnve ten thoufand men, the expence of
it would be uiminiihed by near half a His
Majelty's Government miOit therefore take credit for
having provided an army on much cheaper terms than
their predeceff o s. After the head of guard; and
garrifons, the next head which prefented itfelf was,
that of the regiments ferviug in India ; but, as the
EaR India Company paid the whole expence, he
Ihould not Rate them in the eftimates. Next came
the recruiting eflablifitment, for the regiments which
came under the fame obfervations. '1 he next head
was, the recruiting Raff contingencies for the fttpply i
of the army. This had been ellimated lilt year at I
50,0001. recruiting eltablighment, 50,0001. contingen-
cies and 2y,occl. for the recruiting atablithment in
Ireland. The tame Turn would be lufficient for the
ptecnt year, although fomewhat a greater proportion
fbo.lld be albwed for the recruiting ellablifhment in
Itcland. In the next head the Hon. Gtnecal (Tule-

ton) would find Inme of thole redultions which he
kad been looking for, and that was in the general
Oaff of the army.. Tne ellimated reduOi_n was
54,5531. but the real reduelion would be conlidera•
bly more, and would, as he fuppofed, amount to
sto,oool. This difference would proceed in a great
meafure from the ddcontinuance of the 13rigadier.
Generals to infpeet the volunteer corps, who were in
future to be infpeeted by more fubordinate officers.
There would be alfo a reduftion in the expense of the
Militia, on account of the number who entered from
the Militia into the Regular Army. The next elti•
mate he had to Rate with great pleafure was rcipeet •
ing the Volunteers. He hoped this Ratement world
do away the unfounded alarm which had prevailed
very generally about the fimpofed intention of Go-
vernment towards the. Volunteers. It would thew
that as ample a pinvilion was made for keeping up
that body as was continent with the rides of econo-
my. The chief difference was with relpeet to the
Volunteer Officers. Ix was intended that for the fit-
tore they (hould not in any cafe have, the command
of Field Officers of the line.. When he z ecolleeted how
zealoufly and meritorioufly thole Gentlemen had
come forward in the defence of the countrya,lre could,
hardly believe there was a tingle Volunteer Officer
who would be dnratisfied at not being allowed the
command over Officers who had been regularly bred.
The ellimates for the Volunteers were as follow :
• For the Lit year t,6agooo
Fur :he pram! . . 'pax .°

Total of raving smoch , • - •
This furry included 135,0001. for clothing, which
would fall in after the prefent year, The Right
Honourable Secretary then read (in a. very low tone
of voice) the different items which formed the total
firm, at which lie reckoned the laving in the existence
,for Volunteers: among the principal itemi were
;98,e001. to be laved by discontinuing the fil`flielt
Inent duty ; 50,0001. by difcmitinuing the ten.days'
exercile when permanent duty writ not reiptiretkand
for difcontioning the marching guinea,
He alto Rated other vet-Welton% that would take
place, from reducing the pay of the drill-feiieanti
from eighteen pence a day to 2s. 6d. per week ; as
alto in the expence of the Field Offizers. Atter a
few general oblervations, he moved his &ft Refolu-
firm, which was, That 150,529 men fh mid be
voted for the regular army of the United' Kingdom,
from the 24th ref Jonr. till the 24th of December.
Upon the quellion being put nn the firlt Ref lotion,
General TARLETON role, and exprefild his
fentiments at confiderable length. In alluding to the
plan of the Right Hon. the Secretary at War for
ieffening the difference between the effeetive and nu-
merical forces of the kingdom, he declared that he
thought the Right Hon. Gentleman was particularly
liable to cenfure in his idea of the redueliop of the
Cavalry, which appeared to the ga:lant Officer him-
felf to be, of all others, that which ought molt to be
attended to by his Majesty's Miniltcrs, and which, in
the prefent circumfiances of the country, he thought
it was molt neccifary to increafe. A great deal of thi,
fault he attributed to the circumstance of the Right
Hon. Secretary having neglated to ark the opinion
of the molt experienced Military Ofikefb on the fob-
jed. in the prefent tilt:a:l'm of the country he thought
that this %%AS a falfe idea of ceconomy. In fact, he
conceived his Majesty's Ministers to be a let of drones;
as yet they had done nothing, in his opinion, but
follow the Ileps of their predeceffors, except in one
or two hillances, and thofe he could not approve of.
Even the fervices of the gallant Officers who Fere
concerned in the taking of the Cape had not al yet
received the reward of thanks for fuch exertions,—
The general tatdinefs of Minifters, he conceived, to
be filch that it Was likely we fhould go into winter
quarters before their fy item for general defence world
be likely to be completed; or at all event. to have any
att.:ye cite& 'Die Right Honourable Secretary (Mr.
Windham) had, it was true, paid a vifit to the City,
and there he had expreffed his mere cordial Sopro-
bation of the toall, The Volunteers of Great Bri-
tain ;" but afterv'ards he had coolled upon that
fubjed, and in a flieech of fo much wit, humour,
and vivacity, that it i4,uld have done honour to any
one hot a Secretary of State upon Poch inipoi tint
billings, declared his intention to reduce the Volun
teer Ellebliffiment. With reipeCt to the abolition
of the office of Infpetling Field Officer, he anted
was not that a moll unwire mcafure, and whether
emulation to a confiderable extent had not been ex-
cited among the corps by the very pretence of fuch
experienced military men ? The reiitiquifhing of
the prafti.:e of putting Volunteeis on permannt
duty, he thought alto extremely liable in °bite-lion.
In the difirift where he had the honour to command,
of feveral bodies of men that certainly m.ide but a
very aukivard appearance when they firm went out
into the field, he allured the Houfe that before he
parted from them in that fituation, before the fifteen
days duty was expired, there was hardly a tingle corps
that he would be afraid to go with into the field.
The expence of keeping fo *lidol a body of men, lie
thought,.was not worth looking at in a matter of
Fitch importance.
Mr. WHITBREAD obferved, that the Honour.
I aide General had fpolcen of every thing almolt but
the army estimate=. In dilcuffing fucb-4 fubjeet, was
it at all neccifar y to endeavour to detrs from the
meths of bit Noble Friend (Lord Howick) by an
ungracious allulion to naval affairs t Was it at all
neceffary, or becoming, to apply fuch an epithet at
Drones to the whole of his Majefty's Ministers ? Af-
ter the great ability that had been difplayed that
night by his Noble Friend (Lord -Henry Petty) ;
after the laborious talk which he mum evidently have
undertaken, and which be had fo far accomplilhed
as to be able to Hate to the Houle, the difcovery of
abufes to a molt amazing extent—abufes which had
lain hid loch a number of years. Could it be thought
credible, if any one was to inform us that a Member
of Parliament had gravely declared in his place as a
Member, that lie thought he was deferving of Inch
an epithet as the Honourable General has thought
fit to bring in to his affiflance t As to the circum-
! fiance of a vilit to the City, and one of his Majesty's
Minifters having approved of a loan given by a swir-
-1 thy Alderman, that was a matter which he conceiv
ed to be of too trivial a nature to make the Jerre iut-
pregion on the mind of any gallant officer, when the
general defence of the country came to he (viten
But then it was faid that the molt experienced
tary men had not been confulted. On this point
there doubtlefs might be a difference of opinion. and,
though loch perfons u the Honourable Gael al had,

in view hattnot been ranted to, the Right Hononr-
a )le Secretary of State might have inquired what
were the fentimcnts of others who appeared to him
to be fully as refoeaahle as thofe to whom the Gal
Lint Officer ailitded. As to the alteration in the vo-
lunteer eflablilhmant, he haddon high an opinion of
the good fence, as well as of the zeal and fpitit of
this valuable bed), of men, to Ilippofe that a finale
corps would lay down their arms becaufe they were
to be deprived of the June allowances, or that any
officer almoft among toe whole of them could be In
pettilh as to retign merely hecaufe he would not have
a rank conferred on him to which neither his fervices
nor his military experience could entitle him. On
the other point, that of the infpeeting Officers, it was
only neceffirry to obferve, that, hereaftet, Maj.ir Ge-
nerals would do the duty without the affiltance of the
Brigadier Getieral,.
Lord CASTLEREAGH flafed that lie lhould
not have lifeo but with a view to obtain rime txpla•
nation. The Houle was now placed in a molt extra-
ordinary flirt stion, in the view of the country, and of
Europe. A great and fundamental change in our
military fyllem was avowed, and yet fo full of that
change were his Majely's Mini:lira, that, though
they accepted of the offer of the late Minifters, and
gave in an a imate for two montha, on the fame fcale
as that of hall year; yet now that climates were to
be voted fir the remainder of the year, there was
uothing brought forward with a view to that great
change of fyllem which was about to take place. No,
the fame continued want of any determined plan
was evident,. and the fame reluctance was (hewn as
to the giving of any information. So wavering and
unsettled were the minds of his Majefty's Mintllers,
;hasher they had accepted of the offer, and voted
for the Erli two months animate, they went on to a
tecond, and then to a tt ird, and.fo on tp the produc-
tion of the forirth tftiroate, without any develnpe-
ment of their plan. We had four estimates and four
Mutiny Bilk, that is one by the late, and three by
the prefent Minister. When the third climate of the
new Government was brought forward, he did ex-
pert that there would have been fomething like a dif-
clofnre of the new plan, and a calculation made as
to its probable effects. No; the only thing alma
that was to he frets, was the reduaion of the cavalry,
and in this he was warranted by the declaration of
an Honourable and Gallant Officer (General Tarte-
ton), in (lacing to be a moll novelle and dangerous
meafore. But it would feem to, every either nation
:n huirope, that their" was filch a degree of dittrull and
jcalonly between his Majetty's Miniliers.and Parlia-
ment, that the Legiflature would not confent to teed
them avitla more than a fopply of a month or two at
A 61111 ; that Parliament did not think it Isle to troll
them with the Mutiny MI, or the power ofdifpoling
of the army fora longer time than a month or two;
that men and money, in a time of war, were (silly
voted by the month. A great deal of paint., it was
title, were taken, and much ittentiity was exerted,
to try an sin away the impreffion of the Right Hun.
Gentleman (Mr. Windham's) grand free!), which
led u. to imagine that lie intended to .annihilate the
Volunteers ; his Majelty's Mittillers were now endea-
vouring to avert the indignation of the country (a
cry of hear, hear, hear!) they were endeavouring to
avert the Indignation of the country, be putting it
under a heavy expenditure for 300,000 men. A No-
ble Lord oppofite (Lord Howick) had brought for-
ward a Plan for an increafe of pay to the Navy, from
the Admiral down to the common failor ; if the fame
(Mem of expence was to pervade the army, and that
they, from the General to the private, were alto to
receive an addition to their pay (as might naturally
be expeited to take place), a very confiderable addi-
tion would be made to the expences of the prefent
ellimate, and the Noble Lord (Petty) would be un-
der the neceffity or Winging forward a Supplementary
Ellimate. But, hefides theft confiderations, there
were feveral others that preffed upon his mind ; of
the Levy in Maffe Aft, particularly he noticed that
not a word was laid. In fait, the piineinal objets of
etpenee were pal Ted by, and his Majett y'sMinifters wer e
In inert that, is the four months that they had been
in Admiiiiilration, they had only brought in one Bill
with two clatafes, and one of them (that which related
to the fines) was lb deteflable in its nature, that it
had been more to the credit of Minifters it the bill
was compofed of only the other clank. lie really be-
lieved that Minifters were now trembling and puz-
zled, between the dangers attendant on the tituation
of the country and the rafhtiefs of their own me:threes.
As the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham) had
declared, however, that he would change the military
fyllem of the country at the prelent crifis, he tithed
him, had he ventured to tell his colleagues ; had he
yet, in fait, determined himfell; or, if any inform*.
Lion was to be had from him, would he inform Par.
I Lament in what form, or when the new fyllens was
to be brought intosthat Houfe He trutled, that
doe notice would be given of his intention, whenever
the fyllem was to he brought forward. After the
• i difitraee and ioominy which they had brought upon
themfelves ; after the introduction of four arm ef-
• timates, and tour mutiny bills, within fu Stott a (pace
of times after Minilters had brought Parliament into
filch a fituation as that no Leginature, no Cistern-
; ment in Europe was ever in before, he trotted, that
I regular and timely notice of the introduainn of their
change of fyitem would be given. He trulted that
whether the outline of the plan was to be contained
in the 'Mutiny Bill, or in whatever mode it was to be
introduced, the whole would be brought forward at
once, in order that nn Secretary of State could have
aa opportunity of laying, you (hall only difeufs this
now, or that another Rime, that it should not be laid
that the alteration of the term was one thing, and the
railing of the Levy in Mare another. He asked the
Right Hon. Sseretary (Mr. Windham) whether, in
point of fall, he had yet made up
.his mind to any
plan at all ? and concluded with °Winging that Parlia-
ment might be Paid to be in a tuna ludicrous flota-
tion after the palling of four Mutiny Bills, and the
voting of four climates for expences of the army.
Mr. WINDHAM fatd, the Noble L9rd had
railed a very good Rile—his terms were throng,
and well felefted tOr his put pole. Had there bee.'
as mach found argument as there way coar le obtsfe, it
wnnld have been oneofthe molt powerful harangues
that ever WAS delivered in Parliament. There .sr.
four Mutii.y Bills, and the Noble Lord iiirpored i
irreo t.n;
eyes of all Eno,pc wel e upon u., as if oho, acicirmr.l
; tint of Mutiny Bill. indicated a genera! i:,lt
Ifor very little noire ',rued Coatinental Lorry:- t'T
.•*:r•
fined of BMW' Bills. But the Riyla

. ,
• • •
Secretary at War talked of rednilions, and (listed the
future expences. The gallant General censured this
ceconomy, which the Noble Lord approved- He
booed Mirillers were not to he deemed culpable, be.
cattle they could not agree with b-oh—the door mutt
be ether (hut or open. The Noble Lot d Paid, much
dexterity had been tiled in mifreprefenting what he
had laid, but then fuddenly varied his expreflion,
and it was qualilying what he had faid. IVhich was
the moll cope& lie would Dave the. Houle to de-
termine. Then, artif,,:e. had been employed to lower
the tone of the declaraei m againa the V-olnntcers.
IL• wit'hed Gentlemen would 1 over their tone, and
not raite ft touch clamour. If they %%lodd prefer
their indidment, he thoold know the extent of their
ch•uge s either the fentiment, nr the language in
which it was clothed, was objefsi.•nable. If they
would do this; he wculd either rerr,,El or confirm,
either plead gt:iity or jollity ; but if t,.ey would not
condefcend thui far, he mutt ►et the acculatidt] die
away with the other calumnies of ihe day. With
regard to the Volunteers, he had left them jail where
he found them ; not in the expence, bin in refped to
what would tend to difband them. A Learned Gen-
tleman (hewed fymprornsof aftonithment (Mr. Perci.
vat) : he would, perhaps, hereafter tell what excited
Iris furprife. It was laid that the drill ferjeants were
reduced, and ferjeant majors were to be difcontinued;
but all this was erroneous. It was true that 54,0001.
was to be laved to the public purfe, and yet levels
(billings was to be given every day of duty to the
drill ferjeants, who were frequently tradefmen, not
exclnfively devoting their lives in the military pro-
feffion. He did not think it right to inereafe the
duty of the Volunteers, and thereby augment their
efficiency at a great additional expence ; he thought
it preferable that they thould tem.tin in their prelent
hate of difcipline. By the reprefentation of the
Noble Lord, it would appear as if it were the inten-
tion to harafs them; to impose new hurthens upon
them, and to exhault their patience ; hut nothing of
this kind could be the with of his hlajelly's Minifters.
But the Noble Lord enquired what was the plan pro-
poled, and what progrefs was made in it ? The mea-
lnres were opened in $ ne general view, and the ado!).
tion vtasfreiarim. This was all that could be'done, fur
the latter mull depend upon time, place, and circuit].
(lance, and could only be progreflive. Then his
Lordfhip Aced, in what fhape the matter was to be
fabmitted to Parliament ? The prominent °Ned was
limited fervice, and this was to be recognized in the
Mutiny Bill, which was annual, and to be further fe.
cored by a permanent Ad, which wouldalfocomprize
the additional reward of the veteran for his continu-
ance in the fervice of his country. It was however
definable that refiriCtions thould be fparingly impofed
by legillative regulation; that the matter might be
as much as pollible left open to the Executive Go.
vernment, by whomfoever it might be ■dminillered.
It was a fingular apptehenfion of the Noble Lord that
a elastic on an important fubjed would be propufed
in a Committee, fince the peculiar charader of a Com-
mittee was that the quetlions might be diicutTed with
more facility and freedom. Betides the parliamen-
tary provifions jolt noticed, fome alteration in the
Militia Laws would be neceffary. It had been Bated
that he (Mr. Windham) propofed to abolith ballot s
this was as incorred as the alrertions refpeding Vo-
lunteers. There was now a turpention of the ballot,
and all his objet was to continue for the prefent this
fufpenfi.•n. In addition to all this it would be expe-
dient to have Come Volunteer Aft ; and when that
(hoold he propofed the Noble Lord would have ample
opp •rtunity to dilate on his favourite topic.
Mr. PERCEVAL explained the grounds upon
which it was very generally and naturally fuppofed
that the Right Honourable Gentleman', plan was a
virtual annihilation of the Volunteer Syflem. When
it was recolladed that it was Paid, a volunteer com-
pared to a foldier, was only " a painted cherry,
which even a bird could hardly millake—a dry flick,
which a child alone could exped to vegetate," peo-
ple could not be much condemned for luppofing the
perfon who made fuch obfervations was not friendly
to the volunteers. WAS it to be wondered at, then,
that feri ms apprehenfions were entertained as to the
project of the Right Honourable Gentleman, particu-
larly when a prominent feature of that project was to
1.. remit" the difcipline of that body. According to
his opinion, if it were meant to maintain the volun-
teers at all, their difcipline ought not to be remitted,
but preferred fo as to render them an effi:ieut body ;
: and it it were not wished to render them efficient, it
would, in his judgment, be much better to chtband
them altogether. He law no good in keeping up the
volunteers upon the terms described by the Right
Hon. Gentleman.

I Mr. FOX remarked upon the mifreprefentation fo
I indnflrioutly circulated with regard to the fentirnents
of his Right Honourable Friend. An acute author_
had übferved, that men fometimes contrived to con-
vey faifehood in the words of truth. So many per.
I lons upon this fubjeet, profeffing a regard for the
Volunteers and a zeal for the country, which, no
I doubt, they kit, had grofsly mifreprefented the
views of his Right Hon. Friend. Indeed, he knew,
that much mikonception prevailed upon this point.
He had had a correlpondenee refitetling it. A Gen-
tleman in the country, with whom he had feareely
had any perfonal acquaintance, had lately stoma to
him, Hating, that he undertlood his Right Honour-
able Friend (Mr. Windham) had laid tbe Volunteers
were of no Me whatever. " Now," oblerved this
Cortefpondent, as if hir had net at all read the plan of
my Right Hon. Friend, " I can affitre you and your
friend, that if permanent duty were done away, the
infpeSing officers removed, and the June allowances
withdrawn, the Volunteer s would do well and become
a Te, y ufeful body" (a laugh). This, added Mr. For,
ferved to thew the ntilconceptions which bad ens
abroad. But thous milconceptions would be loon done
away, and when they fhould, he had not the leaß
doubt the general imprraion would be that of his
own mind at prefent, that his Right Hon. Friend was
I the bett qualified man in the country for the arrange.
mei.: if tubjeds of this nature. NutsrithßAnding the
I.lllpicion expreired by the Right Hoe. Gl:whined
who hod lilt Ipoken, that were could be any difficulty
in tind.mg out the roinis of the Noble Lord (Cafile.
re 'WO, ~s his /perch W. 4, 67 full—he thought that dif.
~,,r ail Jo nwihing. Th:re was a vulgar
irt el. relative “ to finding a needle in a bundle of
n,,)" (a ). The Right Hnnon t Able Secretary es.
ire.l his wiln, that thelir.t raft of his Right Ho.
1..0.-ac Friend's plan rboul.l be brought forward at
loon as pogible. Will: that view, be &void hops

the .Mutiny Bill Ironid be brought in to morrow,
read a. MR time—read a feeond time on Friday, and
its commiltal fired for an early day after the reeds;
namely, Wednefday or Friday at farthell. The Right
Hnnnurable Gentleman concluded with declaring his
opinion, if the prefent did no more than to put the
army on a better footing than it is at prefent, they
would perform the ilia beneficial and grateful ler-
vice to the Country.
Mr. CANNING faid, that the Right Hon. Secre-
tat y's declaration as to the eminent qualification of
iis Right Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Windham)
Int him in mind of a fimilar panegyric recently pro.
'minced upon another friend of his, whom he did not
!hen fee in his place (Mr. Ft ancis), but which pane.
jyrie led to no praltical effect. 'I he Right Honour-
able Gentleman thoug!:t the propofed mode of pro.
eeedin quite too precipitate. In his opinion, the
.:nus t tal of 'the Bill Might to be pollponed, at !call
ra
Intl t e Monday after the teeth, and upon fuch an
impor'ant_quellion there ought to be a Call of the
Houle. When this fubjest Ibould be brought under
con fideration, he hoped the whole Report would be
diicuife 1, and that Gentlemen fhould not be told to
cionfine themfelves to a particular part.
Mr. FOX, in explanation, faid, that he would cer-
tainly take the (sole of the Houle, whether the Mutiny
Bill fhould proceed to a Committee on Friday fe'n-
iight, if ally oppofiinn was made to that propfal.
ft was pti telly in the Right Honourable Gentleman's
option to debate the claufe in what manner he pleated;
but he mull not be angry, if he, and his Hon Friends
"Nottld decline replying to any fpeech which he might
leliver, that appeared to involve topics extraneous to
oat immediately before the Houle. Since the Union
with Ireland, no call of the Houle had taken place;
and he could not fee that it was called for by the
prefent meafure, in preference to others of equal im-
portance that had been difcuffed in the Houle dining
the lab (Ann.

Mr. YORKE wifhtd, that the Right Honourable
Secretary would now Rate to the Houfe the precife
nature of the claufe which he meant to introduce into
the Mutiny Bill, in order that Members might be
appticed of it, and better prepared for its dif-
laion. Did he mean that limitation of the period
of krvice lhould extend to every part of our military
:flablifhments, and that the fervice of individuals
light even expire during the continuance of war?
Mr. WINDHAM fully admitted the right of the
Right Hon. Gentleman to put fuch a quellion, and
replied, that the limitation of fervice was meant to
apply to the corps of artillery, and the cavalry, as
well as the infantry of the regular army. With regard
a the period 4 war, and when on foreign fervice,
to h id pi n;•ored that an addition of fix months to the
lipulated term lhould take place ; and it might, per.
aaps, be pi oper to give a hill farther mention of
perhaps two or three years to this period in time of
war. But he wished to have it always diiiinftly un-
det Nood, that there was a petiod beyond which, even
war, the fervice of the foldier fhould not be ex-
_ .

ndeci. With regaid to the infpation of the Voluit-
vrs, he h id a. fill (fated, that they (h-Arid be under
se fupeiMtendance of the County Lietthnants, but
le had 110: incant to exclude the infpeelioit of Military
Officers. Refpeaing additional pay to Officers of
the Arms, he thought it, would be moR proper to
Rae his idea on that fulijett on a future occafion.—
It was one it, which the fioufe mutt be guided, not
merely by its liberality, but alto with a view to the
great numbers, and the c,n,rciticnt great increafe of
expence, ani, thei,fost, it would not be tight to en•
.ourage fanguine hopes.
Mr. YORKE wi(hed for a clearer underflanding of
the Right Hon. Secretary's views. At prelent be
inderilood him, that his plan of limited lervice ea
mded to the cavalry and artillery, and was for (even
fears.

Mr. WINDHAM oblerved, that the term of (even
years did n t apply to thofe branches.
Mr. YORKE obferved, that he underflond the
!xtenfl.m in time of war was to take place for two or
`tree years.
Mr. WINDHAM ftw no reafin to think the ori-
ginal time Rated by hint would be altered, but that
an extenfinn in the power of the Crown in time of
war might be made without prejudice to the general
tWeels of the•mealure. The time he had Sated for
'le artillery was twelve years.
Sir JAMES PULTENEY was of opinion that the
'olunteers would lofe mire by the decay of their dill:
ipline, than the country could gain by any Livings
ropofed. He conceived that perm'nent duty was
ighly riecefriry to tl.e imp:-mem:id of their difeipline,
nd that lon-c kw..l of military infpedlion was alto j
idifper,fible. As to the Ballot, he was glad to find
tat it was not to be &Whitely abolifbed, bnt he

.ared that even it, temporary ftkpenliou would ren-
tr it mt,te difficult to lefort to it again. As to the
.lowance for clothing to the Volunteers, goa. was
too little, and sos. wholly inadequate.
Mr. HILEY ADDINGTON obferved, that the

towance %as only sos. from Guvernment. and that
overnment could not have committed itfelf on that
Ike., do ngh three years afterwards, if the &us.
•n of the C ry remained the fame, the fame al.
,wance might he rsquifire. He could nqt underhand
rot Gentlemen c,,tild talk of the Houfe being taken
forptifr upon a ten days notice. particularly when
recolleaed the fame Gentlemen proceeding lafi
?ar on a twenty.l or hours notice, to the :dein&
rg of the Refoluri ,r.s of the Hoare.
General TA RLE I'ON wifhed to know what was
tender; refAelling the Well India Regiments?
M. ROSE Rated that allowances much larger than
ts. had been made to Vrlonreees.
Mr. H. ADDINGTON laid that sos. was the
hr le of the Angull allowance.
Sir J. PULTLNEY explained.
Mr. WIND HAM laid, that 3os. was the allnwance
June. and sos. in Auguft ; there was therefore no
rdudion. _ _

Mr. MATHEWS hid, that unlefs theallowanecs
the volunteer. were kept up, nay increafrd, it was
opc.ffible the efk.blifbrrient could be kept up. At
0. filbfctiptions were libri tl, and the general zeal
tme in aid of the funds neceffaty for the fupport of
e corps ; but it could not be erpelled that the fub-
iptions would continue, or that Gentlemen would
:Ain be at the vet y Frew expence they had incurred
the volunteers sub which they were connetted.

__ow, tluo, was the da:rence to he made gond, anJ
how could the Itaal);llhil.Cllll,4llll.ittann. proyition fur
;,s mainten.ince ?

Mr. SPENCE!! STANHOPE confirmed the ob.
Serrations of the Honourable Member, and raid, that
unlefs fomething was done to defray the expence, the
volunteers mod dilband of themfelves, though nothing
elfe were done.
Mr. ROSE faid, it was impoffihle that corpc could
be fupported in the manner they were fird raised, and
provided with fund,. Twenty (billings in no cafe
could clothe a man. He knew fo by having tried
in the cheaped manner ; and coat, waidcoat, and
breeclies, independent of other articles, cod 24. It
was Itrange, therefore, to bear of confining the allow
ances, when the corps mull be obliged to be.difbanded
fur want of funds. And to this is added the dif.
couragement held out by the plan peopled. Their
feelings and their circtimilances mud operate to the
overthrow of the fydem ; and if the Volunteers had
not complained, it was becaufe their Officers had ufed
their utmoil efforts to induce them to wait, in the
hopes that Tome alteration would take place in the
plan that had been opened to the Houfe.
Mr. WINDHAM Paid, every body knew how the
Volunteers were railed and fupported ; but was it
propofed that Government firould make up all the
expence which would be reqoired in confequeoce of
the failure nf other funds 1 Clear it was from what
had been fai, that if the Volunteers difbanded, it was
by the force of circumllances, and nut from any thing
Government had propofed.
Mr. SPENCER STANHOPE Paid, he did not
mean to contend that Government thould maintain

the whole Volunteers when their fubfcriptions failed ;
but it would be dangerous to let the whole dilband
themfelves, and tl.erefore an additional allowance, at
kali to Anne of them, was neceffary. At the break-
ing out of any new war our reliance .pule be on the
Volunteers, and therefore the fpirit thould be cherifh-
ed and the fyllem maintained.
Dr. LAWRENCE condemned the conduit of
thofe who fiated, that the Volunteers would not ad
now as they would have done, coofidering they were
in the fame (late as they were placed in by the Right
Hon. Gentleman oppofite (Mr. Yorke). His Right
Hon. Friend had been calumniated for his opinions
about the Volunteers, but had never gone to that cx.
tent.

Mr. Secretary FOX obfcrved, that the debate had
taken rather a new turn, fence it was not now his
Right Hon. Friend's plan, or fpeech, or office, that
occafioned the danger, but the fmallnefs of the old
allowance. Was it the fixed intention of the late
Government to have encreafed it ? He congratulated
his Right Hon. Friend and himfelf, that they were
now attacked, not for any thing they had done, but
merely for not doing that which had not been done
before, namely, the increafe of the allowance.
Lord DE BLAQ_UIERE agreed in leveret of the
plans of the Right Hon. Secretary, but thought it on
the whole difcouragir:g to the Volunteers.
Mr. SPENCER STANHOPE repeated his for-
mer objeftions to the fmallnefs of the allowance. He
obfervcd, that no lefs than 70,0c501. were railed to.
wards Volunteer Corps in the Weft Riding of York.
(hire alone. He inflanced the zeal and alacrity of the
Volunteers is the cafe of his own corps, of about 600
men, all of whom, except nine, were ready in left
than fifteen hours, and bad marched on an average
near is miles, though colledied from forty different
villages. But they could not be maintained without
a greater allowance.
Mr. MATHEWS mentioned an inconliflency in
the printed Reports, between the opinion of the Re.
viewing Officers of his Corps and the letter publiffied.
General TARLEI ON thought there mutt be
fume error in the Report, and gave his tellimony to
the merits of Mr. Mathews' Corps. RefpeCting
flacknefs of difcipline, he knew nothing fn likely to
make it, as the Right Hon. Gentleman's fpeeches
and declarations.
General FITZPATRICK fisted, that the book

was printed from the originals.
Mr. RYDER obfervcd, that a Right Honourable
Secretary congratulated himfelf on the Volunteer
Corps being in the fame Rate as in the laR Admini-
aration ; but Mr. Pitt would never have been the
man to have put an end to loch a fyllem. Clothing
was, he believed, a point of difficulty, and no deer.
fion had taken place upon it. Mr. Pitt would not
have put an end to the drill ferjeants and other ar
rangements of the corps, which, he would venture
to fay, were, in a pecuniary point of view, far pre-
ferable to what was to be fubllituted.

Mr. Secretary FOX replied, he knew not what
Mr. Pitt would have done; but he complained of the
difingenuous mode of debating the Winch that was
praCtifed by Gentlemen on the oppofite fide. If the
plan propofed tended to deßroy the Volunteers, it
was but fair to Rate that as an objeftion : but it was
unfair to °Nee to ihat as a fault of Mini Hers which
they had nothing as yet to du with, and was part of
Mr. Pitt's (Olen:.
Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE cenfured the publication
of the Reports as inconvenient and difagreeable.
Mr. W. SMITH Paid, in the place where he lived
. .

it had long (ince been notorious, that if the Volun-
tary did not get affillance, they mutt difband for want
of funds.

Mr. ELLISON faid, that the plans of the Right
Honourable Gentleman had canted the utmofi difgufl
throughout the Country and among the Volunteers.
Mr. WINDHAM laid, if that effetl had ;seen pro.
doted, it mull have been by mifreprefentations.
Mr. ELLISON alferted, it wet from what he
had heard in the Hooh, and what was circulated in
the newfjpapas, and not by any mifreprefentations.
The Refolutions were then read and agreed to.
The Report was ordered to be received to-morrow ;
and, the Houfe being refumed, the other orders of
the day were difpofed-of.

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