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spatting die mount of the Bank issues. On that occa-
sion the Hon. Humber stated the dissent of the Bank
to maks say seek retsina—lle (Mr. Grantee) wished to know
whether the same objection still remained in the part of the Bank
and if that establishment would now supply Parliament with die
informatian alluded to?
Mr. MANNING, who spoke iq a very low tone of
voice, stated, that the ground on which the Bank
last year refused the returns was, that the restric-
tion of cash payments having aces_ removed, there
appeared no more right to demand a statement of the
affairs of the Bank of England than of • those of any
other banking.house In Lotnhard•street. For hit own part, the
opinion he entertained on the subject remained unchanged; at the
same time be did not undertake to say that the Bank would refuse
to make Parliament acquainted with the amount of its issues, if
the sense of the House required it so to do. Last year those issues
v:, t e about twenty millions of Bank notes, and they did not exceed
that sum by more than two or three hundred thousand pounds.
On the motion of the Loan Anvocaru, the House resolved itself
into a Committee on the Scotch Judicature Bill. After which the
Report was brought up, and ordered to be taken into further wan-
derstion on Monday se night.
Sir GEORGE HILL obtained leave for the Irish Linen Trade
Conimittee to Report their proceedings. The Right Honourable
Bironet accordingly brought up the Report, which was laid on

the table.
A Message from the Lords announced their Lordships assent
to several Private Bilk.
Mr. BERRIES brought up the Report of the Committee on
the Isle of Man Acts, and leave was given to bring in a Bill con-
formably to the Resolutions of the Committee.
Mr. S. RICE presented a Petition from the Chamber of Com-
merce, Ste. of the City of Limerick in favour of the Provincial
Banks' Bill.
The further consideration of the Customs Laws Bill, the Naviga-
tion Bill, the Smuggling Prevention Bill, and the Isle of Man Trade
Bill, was postponed to Tuesday next.
The Irish Exchequer Seal Bill was read a
,seeond time, and
ordered to be committed on Tuesday next.
Mr. COURTENAY brought in the Lunacy and Infants' Trus-
tees' Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a
second time on Monday next.
it was then moved and carried, that the House en its rising,
Adjourn to Monday next.
On the motion of Mr. Gouutuas, the Report of the Irish Chan-
cery Court Bill was brought up, the Amendments read a second
time, and ordered to be read a third time on Wednesday next.

CATHOLIC BILL.
Mr. BROUGHA M moved the Order of the Day for the House
resolving itself into a Committee on the Catholic Relief Bill. On
the question that the Fp:aker do leave the Chair—
General GASCOYNE rose at present merely to
advert to some points connected with the Catholic Bill
which lia:1 not been generally noticed. Two distinct
measures were introduced as adjuncts to Emancipation
which he was justified in considering as parts of the
whole subject—he meant the Bill fur regulating the
Elective Franchise in Ireland, and for paying the
Romish Clergy. The three Bills should receive his
decided opposition. If the House were prepared to
adopt the principle of disfranchisement, it would com-
mence an Augean labour, for he could not conceive
where the inter Terence was to stop. Every man knew
that in the nature of aings the landlord exerci .ed an
influence over his tenant, and the master over his work-
man, and he therefore was at a loss to conceive any
just termination to the operation of such a law. In
another respect he might observe, that the man most
sanguine of long life could never hope to tee the object
of this 8.1 l completely realized ; for although it pro-
posed to give an immediate security by disqualifying
250.000 vlectors, the present generation must pass away
etc that security was really available. The t.ther Bill
—if Bill he might call it—when, although allowed to
be brought in, had tot yet been introduced, was for
granting a sum of money annually to the Roman Ca-
'holm Clergy. Th.: Noble Lord, in short, had come
down contrary to the usage of the Constitution, and
called for a vote without the sanction of a responsible
Minister of the Crown,who uniformly demanded supp'ies
it the instance of the Sovereign. Was it then to be con-
sidered that although the Minister had hot made the pro-
position, still it received his official approval, and would
be concurred in afterwards, if adopted, by the Execu-
tive Authority ? The motion, ho.wever,of the Noble
Lard, appeared to him (Gen. Gascoyne) as a sort cf
flank company, advanced to cover ulterior operations,
and not intended to do more than discharge a random
shot. He was sorry, nevertheless, to see such an appa-
rept acquiescence of Ministers in the measure before the
afose of Parliament had been ascertained. The authors
of those laws it was now sought to repeal would, if
living, have teen with dismay and surprise, any Bill
resembling the Noble Lord's brought into the House
without the sanction of a responsible Minister; and he
(General Gascoyne) thought with the country, that ad-
junct would be a most material objection to the granting
Cathol'c Emancipation, particularly as the enlightened
part of the country were divided upon the latter ques-
tion, and /-10ths of the mass of the people decidedly
against it—(beer). What too was the state of this House
regarding Emancipation? Honourable Members could
• not expect a dissolution to be far distant—another year
at farthest would see the demi e of the present Parlia-
ment; and were Honourable Gentlemen sure, it they
passed this measure, that next Parliament would ap-
prove of the proceeding ? He begged to say he had
no wish for a dissolution—(Hear)—it was generally at-
tended with trouble—(Hear)—but neither had he any
apprehension for the event—(Hear). All he wished to
chew was, that this was not a fit moment for deciding.
.so momentous a subject. If the advisers of the Crown
thought otherwise, then they ought to dissolve the Par-
liament forthwith, and submit it to the succeeding Re-
presentatives of the People. Nothing, however, he re-
peated, could make Emancipation so unpopular as
coupling it with a Bill for paying the Romish Clergy ;
and he must further obserye,, that whatever was the
state, of Ireland now, it had always hitherto been much
the same—with a strong tendency to outrage and re-
bellion. He confessed, when he saw the Attorney-Ge-
neriV for Ireland,- almost on the same night that he
moved the third reading of the Bill for suppressing the
Catholic Association, the favourite organ of the Ca-'
tholica, support the Catholic Relief Bill, he could not
help considering the latter as a sort of bounty on dis-
afieetiem If the ptople of England were reconciled to this Bill;
and any means could be devised for ascertaining that fact, be would
be as ready as any man to sad—let it pass. He was conkdent, bow-
ever,-that this was not the case, and that the House were pro-
ceeding precipitately into an evil course, without tat knowledge
which ought to be the ground-work of the measure. It was not
his intention to oppose the motion for the House going into a Com-
mittee, although he litad thought it proper to.deliver his sentiments
before•tbat took place.
Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDGE said, he hoped he
would be able to convince the House that a revisions of
their decision should take place in this stage of the
proceedings. This measure legislated upon legislation,
and went to repeal .an oath solemnly taken by the
Members of the House in the presence of each other,
and which doubtless every Member recollected; but is
case any Member might not be perfectly in possession
of the precise words, be would take leave to ask that
the Clerk of the House do read the oaths of Abjuration
and Supremacy, befdre he'proceeded. (The Clerk then
acid the oaths). Now if it turned out that the passing

of the Bid 'would -oloarly viotigibet Ohth, he thous►
tcould be no 'doubt as to the ries* of the goes*
ers Wig cemmiiird. He lookial at the objection
with regard to the otitis in two Points.' he first was,
thiatvrery Member, wbetehe *rat • *cod to a seat in
that House, entered into an implied aontract with the
ple of Elgland, that he would support the Cot ititu-
don in Church and State, is it existed at the moment
of his election. And he apprehended that no one could
get rid of that contract, because the people were aware
of what the oaths were at the time they sent a Member
to that House, for they 'were not so ignorant as some
persons for the sake of argument bad. hinted—they
knew and thooght, arid he bad no doubt they were
sensible, that Members could not proceed in support of
this Bill without violating the oath they had taken.
But there was another, and he thought a more forcible
argument. In the terms of the oath they bound them.'
selves to resist the interference of any foreign Prince
in all matters spiritual and ectlesiastical, and yet they'
were about to give their consent to the formation of a
Committee of Bishops before engaged by path to serve
and obey a foreign S rvereign., He apprehended that
this was a difficulty the House ;geoid not get over,
without violating the oath by which they were bound.
And he defied any one, although he might defend it on
some ground of technicality, to support it in the sense
of plain honest feeling—(Hear). And he must con-
tinue the hope, although be confessed it was a faint one,
that they would pause and consider before they con-
sented to stultify the proceedings of Parliament. When
he looked to the preamble, which said so much upon
permanence and inviolability, he felt himselt bound, al-
though he knew the talent by which it would be sup-.,
ported by the Honourable Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) whom
he did not afire tee in his place, and the power by which
he might be answered by the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman on the floor (Mr. Brougham) who could give
to any measure a character and appearance which did
not belong to it—he felt it, he repeated, his duty to
pull that preamble to pieces, and expose the inconsist-
ency of those who framed it. This preamble commen-
ced by declaring an intention to preserve inviolate the
Church and State as at present established; but did the
House recollect that there was a clause in the Aci of
Union with Scotland, excluding all Papists from being
returned as Members from Scotland ? So that in the
event of the Bill for the Relief of the Roman Catholics
passing into a law, they would have the strange anomaly
of Papist Members being returned from Ireland and not
from Scotland. He would not, however, dwell longer
upon this part of the preamble, but pass to another,
whet e, after speaking of the sacrifice of Mass, it goes on
to say that spiritual and religious belief shall not affect
the allegiance of his Majesty's subjects. Why is it that
they are celled upon to make that provision ? Why,
on account of the creed of the Roman Catholics—a
creed which, and he honoured them for it, they would
support even to their death ; but a creed which bound
them to pay allegiance to a foreign Sovereign in all
matters, both spiritual and temporal. To talk, therefore,
of allegiance, unless they meant a divided allegiance,
was to speak in ref ms directly the opposite of to uth.—
A great deal of talent and ingenuity had been exerted
to contradict the proposition of the Pope's spiritual
and temporal autliotity : but if the Catholics con•
seined to tike the oath of supremacy in temporal mat-
ters, he did not know why they could object to the
spiritual, unless, as they had said, they would rather
not. itad, however, any staunch Papist been ever
asked to take this oath ? He would venture to say that
no one would take it—(Hear)—unless he ini,under-
stood the nature of their faith—(Hear, hent,)which per-
haps he did—(f-tear, hear, hear)—he would venture to
say that no severe Papist would. In the evi fence of
Thctor Doyle, he found that the Right Reverend
Prelate, upon being asked if .he had taken an oath to
ihe Pope? replied that he had ; but upon being goes-
firmed as to the nature of i., extraordinary to say, he
was unable to recollect any part of it—any portion of
that oath upon which the whole objeceons connected
with that part of the q •estion hinges. He (Dr. Doyle)
said, however, that he could get a pontifical. He
l(Sir T. Lethbridge) did not know what that meant, but
that he could get a pontilica'—he supposed a copy of
the oath, from the Vicar Apostolic, who was at that
time in town. No one, however, had seen that copy,
or knew whether it hid been presented ; but he had
procured a copy himself, which he would read to the
House, without, however, pledging himself for its accu-
racy, although he believed it to be titre: " I swear
from this time to be faithful and obedient to the Head
of the Church of Rome ; to assist to the'utmost of my
power in supporting and preserving the tenets of the
Holy Roman Catho.ic faith ; to obseive and obey, and
assist in making others observe and obey, the ordi-
nances of the S ivereign Pontiff, and to receive all his
canons and ordinances, as well as the decrees of the
Council of Trent." How could these Bishops, a'ter
taking this oath, abjure by another the Pope's temporal
authority ? Was it not almost compelling them to per-
jute themselves? But he would not pursue the subject
farther. He thought it a very material point, and that
the framing of. such a contradict( ry Act was not very
creditable to the wisdom of Parliament. There was
another point, with regard to the Committee of Bishops,
upon which he wished to offer a few observations.
In that Council, which was called upon to advise the
Sovereign, there were no Protestant Counsellors, as in
former Bills—they 'had it all their own way, and were
permitted to regulate all matters connected with
Church and State, uncontrouled even by the Sovereign
himself. How unlike such a proceeding was the prac-
tice of their forefathers? they went upon the principle
of security. Tue Protestant Gentlemen of the present
day too profess t 6 support the Protestartt Church and
State, as by law established ; but he would tell them,
that by consenting to allow such a Commission of
Bishops, they were acting as inconsistent with these
feelings, and as much at variance with their professions,
as the East is removed from the West. For these
Bishops, -if anything favourable to the Government'
came to their knowledge, were to cemmunicate it to
his Majesty; but if any thing treasenbble came :tri
their knowledge—if anything inimical either to Church
or State came to their knowledge, they were allowed
to keep it to themselves. in short, it ever there was
* Bill full of vicious principles in legislation, it. was
the one they were now called upon to consider in a Com...
snittee. It had been said that the Catholics were different
now from what they had been about a century ago in Irv.
land; but he deified that point; and contended, that the
molt they inquired, either in Ireland oconthe Coetineat
of Europe, with respect to the feelings of the Catholics,
the more they would be convinced not only that their'
feelings and principles remained unchanged; but thit
they bad acquired strength by time.:- He hadilt was
true,-esainined the evidence taken before the Commit-1
see, and seen in it much which militated against such

'an opinion;"bee be could not help observing, how-.
ever, that the; wimp seemed to have cope getteral
feeling, and to be careferir looking to the majn Chance.
He had selected one of 'two observations helm:Dr.
Ogles evidence, which 'might tend to. support his
opinions. The Hon. Bart. here read several parts Of
Dr. Doyle's evidence. in which be stated that the: Pope,
even in the ease of a provision being made for the Ca-
tholic Bishops, had a power to appoint to the See—
that he had the power to make ordinances and regula-
tions without the consent of the King—that he had had
the nomination of Bishops since the end of the reign of
the Stuarts; and that the power could not be separated,
from the Papal Chair. The question of provision for
the Clergy had been, he rather thought. put an end to,
but he would ask how they would like such an inter-
ference in the disposition of Sees endowed by English
generosity ? If the Roman Catholics were admitted into
Parliament, would they not seek a restoration of the
property which they supposed to have been wrongfully
wrested from them? To chew that the tenets of the
Roman Catholics of the present day were the same a;
those of the Roman Catholics of former periods, he
would state the instance of a farmer lately, inYorkshire,
who was tenant to a Roman Catholic, one of the condi-
tions of whose lease was, that prayers by a Protestant
Dissenting Minister should not be said in his house.—
He would also beg.to adduce the conduct of Dr. Troy,
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin. who published
a pastoral letter in Dublin, in which he permits the
reading of the Scriptures only when accompanied with
Douay annotations. • In those notes would be found
such sentiments ac discouraged communion or society
with any sect of Christians who differed from them, the
Roman Catholics. it inculcated the burning of all he-
retical books, inclusive of the Protestant 13.b1e ; it incul-
cated further, an avoidancenlProtestanas, as their ways
were otiotagisirs, and said that their prayers reached not
the Kingdom of Heaven, and were not• snore regarded
than the howling of wolves-I.(Heariond a laugh). He
might early qn.,te m.ny similar passages, but this was,
he thought, sufficient to, trip up and overturn the argu-
ments of those who constantly said that the Roman
Catholics of the present day were different from those
of former days. Ile was glad to address this argument
to the House in the presence of an Hon. Member (Sir
J. Sebright), hom he saw crossing the ffror, and oho,
on a former night declared that lie was ashanied to see
the House of Commons discussing the Roman Catholic
Question in 1825—(11ear, from Sir J. Sebright, accom-
panied by loud cheers trout both sides of the House).
Ile too (Fir T. Lethbridge) was ashamed to see the
House consent to a measure which was caltnlated to
destroy the security of the Protestant Establishment.
He begged to remind the House of the answer of their late Sove-
reign, on being applied to on this subject:—" I am ready," said he
" to descend from the throne—l am ready to repair to
the retirement of a cottage, and even, if necessary, to lay my head
upon the block, but lam nor prepared to violate my oath.' He
too bad taken an oath which he would not violate ; and he begged
Hon. Gentlemen to remember, that, in consistency with the oaths
they had taken, they could not agree to a single clause in the Mill
now before the Ilouse—(llear, bear.)
Sir J. SEIM IGHT rose to repeat what had fallen
Ifrom him on a former night; there was not, he thought,
the shadow of argument for resisting the measure of F.nsancipatiou.
.So far (Min being ashamed of what had fallen from high od a
former night, it was a sentiment which he repeated, and which he
WYJ proud of—(hear, hear).
Mr. Secretary PEEL pert ived there was a pretty
general impression prevailing that the sense of thelinuse
would not be taken on the question of the House going
into a Committee. He believed that he (Mr. Peel) had
himself contributed to et eate that impression, and be now
should not do anything to contravene it. He was happy
that the Honourable Member for Somersetshire had not
expressed his intention to oppose the Speaker leaving the
Ch sir. Many Members were absent on both sides, and
it was besides the more unnecessary to press a division
on the question of the House going into a Committee,
as on the question. with its alterations in a whole shape
on the third reading, he should cat tainly take the sense
of the House. The objections which be entertained
were not diminished by his being in a minority; on the
contrary, the objections which be entertained to the
simple
removal of the restrictions which at present
affected the Roman Catholics, were not only not abated,
but were confirmedand strengthened by the proposition
which thellouse lately acceded to, for making a provision
lby law for the Roman Catholic Clergy. This would
opera. e as an inducement to divide thellouse on the third
reading; but be felt himself bound in fairness to abstain from doing
se on the question of tLe House going into a Committee.
Mr. B. CLAR KE said it was impossible that Ireland
could remain in its present state. Under present cir-
cumstances nobody would invest capital in Ireland;
nobody would lire in it who could avoid it—(Hear).
If the Bill before the House were passed, he was con-
vinced that Government might withdraw esery soldier
from Ireland. Ireland would then be kept quiet with the assist..
once of the Catholics themselves—(Heat).
Colonel TRENCH was of opinion, that the unhappy
situation of Ireland had resulted from the system of
misgovernment which h.is long prevailed in that country.
That system had, however, been changed; the good
seed was sown, but it could not be expected that the
crop should be reaped directly. If Government for two
years longer pursued the same course upon which they
had entered, it would be impossible for agitators to
excite disturbances in Ireland. The Honourable Mem-
ber who spoke last said, that nobody would carry.
capital to Ireland. Capital to a large amount hid; he
knew, been carried into that country, and more was
about to proceed thither. That capital would produce
industry, and industry would produce tranquillity. He
opposed Catholic Emancipation, because in ZIA the,
immense mass of the people was in an ignore and de-
graded state, and were entirely under the i &mice of
the priesthood, whom be believed to be directed, in
their turn, by political persons and feelings—(Hear).
The present was the proper moment for the Govern-
ment to make a stand against the Catholic Claims. The
Catholics would not be content with what Parliament
would give them ; they would never' be content until
they obtained possession of supreme power—(Hear).
If Parliament, on the present occasion, were to make a
Inn stand—to say " denier we will go, and no farther," the ques-
tion would be set at net ter ever. It would be an insult to the
English Cuban to the Bill before the House; it would, in
fact, be an ackao is iisat that Parliament had yielded to the
threats of the Irish adismes, what they had never been disposed
to grant to the loyalty and pod conduct of their English brethren.
Mr. WM. BAN ES trusted that his acquiescence in the motion
for going into the Committee would net be misunderstood. He did
on, merely because he thought the resistance offered to the Dili
should be open and manly—(Hear). The third reading was the
kap es which to take the sense of the Harese.—Tbe House then
resolved itself into

1111 COlOllll7llll.
• Mr. MACDONALD in the (fait.—The DUI basin bees read
a first and wood time,
The SPEAKER rose, he said, to occupy the auea-
tton of the Committee but for a very short time. After
the recent and very elaborate discussion which, this
subject had undergone, be very much doubted whe-

ther any person could say anything hbet with tegatd
to it, and he certainly was not prepared to atrogate
to himself the capability of doing so. He was pet•
fectly aware, that according to the strict roles and ,
forms of the House, the present stage of the Bill un'
der consideration was neither the most convenient, not
the most regular occasion, for any Member to state
his opinion with regard to it i but as his opinion on
the question remained entirely unchanged, and as this
was the first opportunity, and perhaps it might be the
last, on which he should be 'enabled to address- the
House on the measure, he trusted he might be permit-
ted to say a few words—( Hear, hear). Nothing, then.
which he bad heard or read, had relieved his mind
from the serious apprehensions with which it was filled
with regard to this great, and, as he thought, most
dangerous measure—(Hear, hear). Having said thus
much, he could assure the Committee, that he had lid
Amendment to propose, nor did he wish to press
division, particularly after the opinion of the House
had been so decidedly expressed on duo point. Hoir-
ever painful it might be to him to differ from the
majority of 'the House—however painful it might be
to his feelings to differ from the opinions of those
whose opinions he ought to respect, and on whose opi-
nions he in almost every case placed the greatest re.
Hance; and above all, notwithstanding he felt that the
course he was now pursuing was a great evil, and to
be justified only by the necessity of the case, still feel-
ing that a question of this kind admitted of no com-
promise, so long as he retained his conscientious objec-
tions to the question of Emancipation, he should be
ashamed of himself if he did not declare them—,
(Hear). He hoped that the C munittee would pardon
him for having troubled them with these few words.
He had, as he beft're stated, no Amendment to pro-
pose,
nor was he aware that it was intended to propose
any, or to come to any division in the Committee.—
He had been anxious not to remain silent with regard
to the present Bill, the only public measure wish
which he had interfered bince he had had the honour
to till the Chair—(l fear, hear).
Mr. Secretary PEEL observed, that when a Bill
similar to that now before the House was under dis-
cussion, various propositions were submitted to the
House—some for the purpose of restricting the t ffices
to which Catholics should be admitted, and others for
continuing their exclusion from Parliament, and the
Governments of the Colonies. He rose for the pur-
pose of stating, that it was not his intention to submit
any propositions of that kind to the Committee on the
present occasion, the sense of Parliament having been
fairly declared on those points in 1821.
Sir 11. Paawct.i. and Mr. Secretary PEEL entered into a short
conversation, relative to the exact meaning of the words salvo awe
iodine in the Catholic Bishops' ordination oath.
Mr. Secretary PEEL asked the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman (Mr. Brougham), whether it was his amen-
tion to retain the two clauses relative to the establishment of an
Ecclesiastical Commission in Ireland ?
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that as soon as the Com—
mittee arrived at those clauses, it was his intention to propose an
amendment.
Mr. B. Coma, Sir ionx Nrwrear, Mr. Punnterr, and Mr. V.
Frrsosaato, spoke a few words as to other clauses of the NA,
which were of minor importance.
Mr. PLUNKETT thought the Protestant would be
in the same situation after taking the oath as before.
Every one knew that the Pope had a certain spiritual
authority, and that would not be more apparent after taking the
oath than before.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that the whole of the po-
licy of the law was, to disclaim any spiritual authority
on the part of the Pope; but that would be recognised by the
provision to be made for the Archbishops and Bishops.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, it must have been known
that the Pope had spiritual authority over six millions
of our fellow-subjects ; but as he (Mr. B.) disclaimed
that authority for himself, he therefore swore truly.—,
But that authority had been recognised by the esta-
blishment of the College of Maynooth ; and in many
Acts of Parliament. the actual authority of the Pope was recog-
nised, though not admitted by the law of the land.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that by the Act for estab-
lishing the College of Maynooth, the political dignity
of the Irish Archbishops and Bishop, bad, not been recognised.
Sir J. NEWPORT contended, that the political cha-
racter was recognised by the terms of Right and Most
Reverends. They had been recognised as such by the King at
his Levee.
Mr. L. FOSTER had taken the oath alluded to, but
should' the present Bill pass, he did not see how he
could so easily take it. If the Pope was allowed by law to nos*.
nate to the Catholic Sees, it was impossible to swear that he had..
no legal authority.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought that as long as the
exercise of the Catholic Religion was toleratedby law.
the power of the Pope was acknowledged. There appeared to him
to him to be no distinction between Authority and Power. '
Mr. PLUNKETT said, that the Catholics, if they did
not attend their own Churches, were bound to attend those of the
Protestants. By that Act the existence of the Catholic Church
was admitted.—The clause was then agreed to.
On the clause declaring a Catholic ineligible to the Ake of Chief
Governor, Deputy Governor of Ireland, ur of Chancellor of Great
&hallos. of Ireland,
Mr. ROBERTSON contended, that &chalks should not be
allowed to sit in the House of Commons foe British Bolinsghs and
Counties; and concluded with a motion to that effect.
Sir C. 'COLE differed wholly from the Honourable Member.--:
Whatever disabilities were removed from dm Irish Catholics, .herald
also be renamed from the Cadman of Wend.
The Gallery was cleared, but se divides took place, mad the
Amendment was negatived.
Mr. BROUGHAM said that be had an amendment
to propose upon this clause. After reading the follows
ing words of the clause, 44 And whereas it is expedient
that such precautions should be taken, in respect of pet-
sons in holy Orders professing the Roman Catholic reli-
gion, who may at any time hereafter be elected, nomi-
nated, or appointed to the exercise or discharge of
episcopal duties or functions in theCatholicChurchinlre.
land, or to the duties or functions of a Dean in- the said
Church, as that no such person shall at any time here-
after assume the exercise or discharge of any such duties
or functions within the United Kingdom, or any part
thereof, whose loyalty and peaceable conduct shall not
have been previously ascertained, as hereinafter pro-
vided"—he said he wished to add to them these words
—" And whereas it is fit and requisite to regulate the
intercourse between the subjects of this realm and the
See of Rome, be it therefore enacted, that it shall and
may be lawful for his Majesty, his heirs and successors,
by Iwo several commissions, to be issued under the great
seal of Ireland, to nominateand appoint such persons
in holy orders professing the Roman Catholic religion,
and exercising episcopal duties or functions in Ireland, .
as his Majesty, his Mks and successors, shall think fit
to be Commissioners under the Act for the two purpose*
before-mentioned, and that the person first named id
the said commissions should be the President thereof."
The Learned Gentleman said, that as he had before
stated she grounds on which he recommended these se-
curities, he should not now pretend to repeat them. The
objection to this measure was, that by agreeing to it she House
would legalize the spiritual authority of the Pope. He molted
that the House would do no such thing ; it would merely regulate

16 Walks el- tile which bad k
ellastalnatar -that. the Pope
Wintry dim not be coettlidlttbd.
Wain bias a Priest—(alalitti), anti
to the . Bishopric of Dol.--(ant
aPPoisliastintrs bye,
W elssw. going—Q.l%k
Bishop per softest% and
tenon vaned to confer
that be was not indulging
solitremind the Howse
Dr. O'lleirne, the late Protestant
ordained a Priest by the
lot afterwards becoming
without any farther ordins
she, s 1 lenient In addition
on the subject of securities.
could net admit the necessity
its Seeretary PEEL
Bishop Horsley had "
the debate, he could N
reFdi to •the Reverend
contained in it. The '
tween the different
of Iteme,which well
Ile admitted the. Pope
had liberty tocnnfer
but he denied that •
this country, and
the disabilities under
He would only Say..
this vlause introduced
utmost candour, the
his mind if the Hon.
leave these provisions
that declarAtionbnot
defeating the BM,
provisions were worse
which he felt to the
woyld be removed
They were very di.,
merly been proposed
Secretary of State for
were, they were di
Learned t!ntlemat
not come from him,
Terence to the scrur,
Le (Mr. Peel) had
bunked by the fair
The child,
" But seldom
Ind hisfentark seemed
appeared to have no legit'
her disclaimed the sem
folio* his example. They
Gentleman said, by the
ware not at all wanted
would get up and say
r dealt) the Protestant
objection which be now
found anxious to support
and .Learned Gentleman
nut be better calculated i
out these securities, than
to diem on this ground.
obligation to appoint ts
exclusively of ecclesiastics.
bull, dispensation, or
of aq innocent nature,
it was directed, but did
it, in case it should appear
WAS likewise no penalty
sire episcopal functions •
was mentioned in the
snissioner would like
listen convicted of some
than the tdeas attached u
therefore wish to know
Gentleman intended
Mr. PLUNKE.
necessary accom raw
tAn respecting them
less service.ibie the
should support them,
sure before the Comm
palatable to the people
toe :securities that •
somewhat of a sir
in 1798 and 1821,
stcPrities necessat
the... Catholics to the
they were under -
section with the
thought it most ,
brought in unison
ought to be plowed.
said that loyalty •
that it was so, if
wish all the precis
were to be charged
might not be brought
Ibis clause so as
man's disaffection
pithily deducible.
sect, but it was no\
lk Bishops. One
rides was, that
minds of the Cal
so* calculated toe_
thanes were satisfied,
my to ; sod,' therefore,
seekwities. He never
111kCatholits being '
impiast the State, •
bask the object of
the clans. found sew,_
Catholics. The security
loyal person, but that he
aseabastioa. He bad w
inset be had; whether
People of Ireland wet'
and it was ant objected
womb' observe, that
•would be gond for '
Mr. BANK/3S .
The original clause
On the clause
dal Commission
Nr. Sectetary
was more ne
_Ur. PLUNKS

_w.

Ileaserable Moak
k wadi therefore be
baba thus in Irebi
Mr. BROUGHAI
Felted (Mr. Fleabite
On the clause to-
Church of Rome,
Sit FRANCIS
paid to these bulb
to the mead Ok
Mr. BROUGL
aetire to, or rather
any fears urea
with horn% that
quiet and inoffensive
merely received
ration and
The CHreAlcri
kg been ail gene
others.
Lord 4N N
nuities to the
of before the third.
Nientbers wboviesibl

being accompanied by
Sir J. NEWPORT
Dir. BROUG'

•
t *Ws bad edited f
at- the • Pope had'
For In
.—(airlitti), and the
F. Dulisah—(another
eta, by the bye, in
laughter), he would
and would not re
confer it In the Engl*
dens in mere idle
louse of a case of
ate Protestant Bisho
r the Pope at Rome..
pining a Proteitant,
ordination—(Neu).
ldition to those which
securities. He saw
necessity of securiti
PEEL said, tha
had been referre
ould wish that H
mcnd Bishop's sp
fhe Rev. Prelate
.ent authorities e
well deserved the
r Pope was Bishop
Infer degrees wit!'
'at the Pope had
id upon that print
under which th -
tay a few words o
:Weed into the Bill
that it would b-
Hon. and Lear
risious entirely ou
bnotoith anysinis
;11, but from a fu
e worse than nu
) the removal of t
Ived by the exist-
y different from
posed by his lti
rte for Tmeign A
re disclaimed by
eman opposite,
him, but were f
,cruples of those
had the honour
fabulist, that.
tild, whom many fat
idom boasts a father'
?med verified in the
o legitimate father. 1
securities it corstai
e. They were not req
by the Catholics ; ar
anted by the Prot c.
say that these securi
:stant Church in I
to now felt to them;
support them, be
atlesnan would c • •
Mated to conciliate
ies, than it would
ground—that they
point two permane
riesiastics.
, or other document
ature, it should be
ut did not provide f•
d appear to be of a •
penalty attached to a
tions without having
the present clause.
like to impeach of d'
'some disloyal act. T
tched to the words lo
know what constru
Lied to put upon the
KETT thought-
)mpanimentsb an,
them in 1812 ;
le than he really
t them, as most
e Committee sue •
Ile people at larg
that were form-
a similar nature
821, on these gr
nary. The Ho
to the privileges
ler the influence
the See of Ro
)st essential that
sison with the
roved. His Righ
dry was an uncle .
r, if the inquiry
recision of a Co
:harged with th
brought home t.
as to satisfy a
,ction of loyalty
cible. In 1821
as now proposed
One great rea
hat no objection
e Catholics of I
to give tranquillity
tidied, and it was
:herder*, be did t
never supposed that
being bad subjects.
ate, they would be •
of it was to gua
rid-securities actor
he security 'hewed
but that be procured
He hod said in 181
whether. of veto or
:land wire ready to
t objected to by the
e that if the-Bill
efor the country.
ICES objected to the
al clause was then a
me respecting the
Mon being read,
tary PEEL said, the
Imam in England t
NKETT could not
Friend; in coacei
refore be more nece
a in Ireland.
,UGII.II id casco
Phankett).—The eta
iuse for regulating
tome,
NCIS OMM ANN
IS bulls °fight not to
I Commandment,
lUG HA M assured t
rather continue his
pan that bead—for t
that were smart-
offensive bulls upo
heed by the Cabal
meet.
AIRMAN then
I gone through, t
N ISM ORE thou
Roman Ott
hr third se ding of
'bowel!' only vote"
ipanied by the of
SWPORT said. it
DUG HA Al cut •

the ezilitibee of the which had abated for many years, in spite of •
its Oactatouts. -That. the Pope had' spiritual authority in this
totentry Wahl not be coutfaditttd. Foe instance, if the Pope were to
teeth& bins a Print-(ails ), and the King were to appoint bite
to the. Bishopric of. Duliall—(another laugh), one of the most
tostradee appointments, by the bye, in his gift, and the best trade
all ppm. going—(laughter), he would be entitled to become a
Bishop per Whn, and would not require ordination from any
Oman qualified to cooler it in the English Church. As a proof
that be was not indulging In mere idle assertion upon this point, he
11%dd:remind the House of a cue of recent occurrence in Ireland.
Dr. O'Beirne, the late Protestant Bishop of Meath, was originally
ordained a Priest by the Pope at Rome.. He was then a Catholic,
but afterwards becoming a Proteitant, be was made a Bishop
without any farther ordination—(Hear). He would offer no fur-
ther akunient In addition to those which he had already advanced
on the subject of securities. He saw no danger, and therefore
could nut adttait the necessity of securities.
tip Sedretary PEEL said, that as the authority of
Bishop Horsley had been referred to in the course of
the debate, he could wish that Hon. Gentlemen would
reel; to the Reverend Bishop's speech for the arguments
contained in it. The Rev. Prelate drew a distinction be-
tween the different authorities exercised by the Pope
of Reme,which well deserved the attention of the House.
He admitted the. Pope was Bishop of Rome, and that he
had liberty to confer degrees within his own jurisdiction;
but be denied that the Pope had any liberty to do so in
this country, and upon that principle refused to remote
the disabilities under which the Catholics laboured.
He would only Say a few words on the provisions which
this clause introduced into the Bill. He declai ei with the
utmost candour, that it would be a great satisfaction to
his mind if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would
leave these provisions entirely out of the Bill. He made
that declarationmotwith anysinister intention of thereby
defeating the El:II, but from a full conviction that such
provisions were worse than nugatory. No objection
which he felt to the removal of the Catholic disabilities
would be removed by the existence of such securitie.
They were very different from those which had for-
merly been proposed by his Right lion. Friend, the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs; and such as they
were, they were disclaimed by the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman opposite, who said that they did
not come from him, but were framed out of pure de-
ference to the scruples of those Gentlemen with whom
Ile (Mr. Peel) had the honour of acting. It was re-
xriarked by the fabulist, that
44 The child, whom many fathers share,
4' But seldom boasts a father's care;'
and his remark seemed verified in the present instance. This clause
appeared to have no legitimate father. The Hon. and Learned Mem-
ber disclaimed the securities it contained; and be was obliged to
folloW his example. They were not required, the lien. and Learned
Genilestian said, by the Catholics ; are he would add, that they
were not at all wanted by the Protestants. if any Gentleman
would get up and say that these securities would be effectual occu-
r tiesto the Protestant Church in Ireland. he would wave the
objection which be now felt to them; but if no person should be
found anxious to support them, be hoped that the Honourable
and . Learned Gentleman would consider whether the Bill would
not be better calculated to conciliate the people of Ireland with-
out these securities, than it would be with them. lie objected
to them on this ground—that they imposed on the Crown an
obligation to appoint two permanent commissions, composed
exclusively of ecclesiastics. Besides, they provided that if the
bull. dispensation, or other document received from Rome were
of an Innocent nature, it should be sent to the parties to whom
it was directed, but did not provide for what was to be done with
it, in ease it should appear to be of a dangerous description. There
WAS likewise no penalty attached to any Bishop who should exer-
cise episcopal functions without having received such a certificate as
was mentioned in the present clause. Add to this, that no Com.
anissioner would like to impeach of disloyalty a man who had not
been convicted of some disloyal act. There was nothing more vague
than the tdeas attached to the words loyal and disloyal; and he would
therefore wish to know what construction the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman intended to put upon them?—(Hear).
Mr. I'LUNKETI' thought- the securities good and
necessary accompanintentsb and-agreed with Mr. Grat-
tan respecting them in 1812 ; but if he thought them
less serviceable than he really believed them to be, he
should support them, as most likely to make the mea-
sure before the Committee succeed, and make it m re
palatable to the people at large. When he recollected
cite .securities that wore formerly proposed, and :hat
somewhat of a similar nature was considered necessary
in 1798 and 1821, on these grounds he did think the
vcOrities necessary. The House was about to admit
the Catholics to the privileges of the Constitution, and
they were under the influence of Priests, and in con-
nection with the See of Rome; and, therefore, he
thought it most essential that the priesthood should be
brought in unison with the State, and that their loyalty
ought to be proved. His Right Honourable Friend had
said that loyalty was an undefined term. He admitted
that it was so, if the inquiry were to be acted upon
with all the precision of a Court of Justice. If a man
were to be charged with the crime of disloyalty, it
might not be brought home to him by the operation of
tbis clause so as to satisfy a Court ; but he thought a
man's disaffection of loyalty might be notwithstanding
plainly deducible. In 1821 laymen were to be admit-
ted-, but it was now proposed to admit none but Catho-
lic Bishops. One great reason for adopting the sectP
rides was, that no objection to them existed in the
minds of the Catholics of Ireland. Here was a mea-
sure calculated to give tranquillity to Ireland, with which the Ca-
tholics were satisfied, and it was the first time they were shit to
say so - and; therefore, he did think it desirable not to disturb die'
securities. He never supposed that this clause would gaud spinet
she Catholics being bad subjects. Ifnilt somositted any crime'
against the State, they would be pu art any ether subject ;
het the object of it was to guard against them as Catholics; and
the clause foundsecurities according to the circumstances of the
(Whelks. The security showed that the Bishop was not only a
loyal person, but that he procured his appointment by a domestic
sassnination. He had said in late to Mr. Grattan; that security
MINK be bad, whether. of veto or domestic nomination. Now the
People of Ireland were ready to grant the domestic nomination,
and it was not objected to by the See of Rome. In conclusion, he
would observe, that if the Bill were not to pass, this measure
•would be good for the country.
Mr. BANKES objected to she securitiesprovided by this dugs.
'llse original clause was then agreed to without a division. -
On the clause respecting the oath to be taken by tbe Reclesiu-
deal Commission being read,
Mr. Sectetary PEEL said, that in his opinion a Commission
was more necessary in England than in Ireland.
Mr. PLUNKKTT could not agree in opinion with his Right
illsosorable Friend., in conceiving the danger greater, and that
k would therefore be more necessary to have a Commission in
England than in Ireland.
Mr. BROUGHAM concurred in the opinion of his Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. Plunkett).—The clause was then agreed to.
On the clause for regulating the spiritual commuuicatii
Church of Rome,
Ste FRANCIS OMMANNEY complained that the homage
pate to these bulls (eight not to be encouraged—it ,was contrary
to the second Commandntent,which prohibited idolatry—(A laugh).
Mr. BROUGHAM assured the Hon. Gentleman that he might
satire to, or rather coutinue his night's rest—(A lewg4), without
any fear's upon that head—for these bulls were not the animals
with horns, that were sometimes calculated to scare a man, but
quiet and inoffensive bulls upon paper—(A laugh)—which were
merely received by the Catholics with "some pious token of ado-
ration and respect.
The CHAIRMAN then said, that the clauses of the Bin hai-
ing been all gone through, the time had arrived for adding any
others.
Lord EN NISMORE thought that the Bill fur granting An-
nuities to the Roman Catholic Clergy, ought to be disposed
of before the third reading of this Bill, because there were many
:Members whtswould only vote for this Bill in consequence of its
being accompanied by the other measure.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, it woad be impricticable so to do.
Mr. BROUti HA 11l entreated the Noble Lord to consider that

of the

that clause would render the pasint at the Bill contingent Upon the
passing of another Act which at present did not even exist. The
Forty Shilling Freeholders' Act certainly did in some measure de-
pendupon the present Act, but -the circumstances were not ana-
logous. They were now called upon to insert a clause which would
repeal all they had hitherto done.e-troeld overthrow all the labours
of the Committee, and render insll the most important steps that
had ever been taken in Parliament on this most important question.
He looked upon that proposal as nothing more nor less than saying
they would vote against this Bill—(Hear, bear). It would indeed,
perhaps, have been better for them all had they voted at first agaidst
the measure, as it would have saved them all this trouble. He
hoped the Noble Lord would consider them as bound to bring for-
ward a Bill in pursuance of the Resolution. This Resolution did
Dot bind them to bring it forward immediately, but at a proper sea-
son, which would certainly be after the present BiR was passed.
Mr. H. SUMNER thought that the delay had been a mere trifling
with the House.

Lord ENNISMORE consented to withdraw the clause. He
begged, however, to rectify what seemed to•be an impression of the
Honourable and Learned Gentleman opposite (Mr. Brougham);
viz. that he (Lord Ennismore) bad voted against the second reading ;
he had voted for it.
After some further discussion, it was agreed that the Report
should be now brought up, with the understanding that any Hon.
Member should be competent to move the recommitment on. Mon-
day, and the third reading to take place on Tuesday.
Mr. LITTLETON, in consideration of the lateness of the hour,
proposed that the Committee on the Elective Franchise Bill, should
be postponed till Monday next; which was agreed to.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Qua arza TO Oar. 01,

TliE EVEN EN G STAR

LON DON.

SATURDAY, MAY 7, 1825.
STOCK EXCHANGE, TWELVE O'CLOCK.

Consols opened at 91 for the Account ; but soon after some be-
came sellers at 90k to 91, but little was done. It is reported there
is a failure in the Foreign House this morning, of a person of some

In the Foreign Market scarce anything is doing.
Current Prices: New Spanish 181, Old Spanish 231 1, Rus-
sian 951 1, Merican 761 77, Austrian 961, Colombian New 881,
Brazil Scrip 1/ 1 Mexican Scrip 11 / disc. Greek Scrip 5 4/ disc.
Danish Scrip 21 2 dia.

Pit ICE OF STOCKS AT ONE O'CLOCK.
Bank Stock 2291,4
3 per Cent. lied. 901/4
3 per Cent. Cons. 90% 3/4 91 90%
Si per Cent. 97% 3/8
4 per Cent. New 1047/8 105 101%
Long Ann. 21% 22
India Bonds 72 71
121,000 Excheq. Bills 44 42 45
A:500 ditto 44 42 45
Commercial 45 •
Cons. for Acct. 9074 91
FOREIGN FUNDS, TWO O'CLOCK.
Austrian &Is S p Ct. Mex. Bonds, 5 p Ct. 761 7 85
Brasillan Bonds Ditto Acc.
Ditto Scrip, 5 per Cent. Ditto Scrip 1825,
Ditto Scrip 1825, Ditto Acct. ij 2 if dis
Buenos Ayres Bonds, 91 Neapolitan Bonds, 1824,
Ditto Acc. 91* Peruv.Bonds, 6 per Ct. 785
Milian Bonds, 6 p Ct. Portuguese Bonds
Colombian Bonds, 6pC. 86 Prussian Bendel 822, S p o.looj
Ditto Ace. Ditto for Ace. 1001 5
Ditto Bonds, 1824, 885 Ditto 1822, 1015 2
Ditto Acct. Russ.Bonds,lB22, 6 p Ct. 955 5
Danish Bonds, 5 per Ct. Spanish sp. Ct. C. 235 1
Ditto Acct. Ditto Acct. 231
Greek Bonds Span. 5 p. et C. 1823, 19
Ditto Acct. Ditto Bonds, 1820, 22
Ditto Scrip, 1825, French Rentes, 5 per Cc. 1015 f.
'Ditto Acct. Exchange 251.10 c.
BRITISH AND FOREIGN SHARES, TWO O'CLOCK.

MINES

SHAUL PAID. rates vas WAIL
Anglo Mexican • sCIOO £2O isa. £5 pm. £B7l
Brazilian . . - 100 •5 - -IS 141 15
Chilian • - 100 5 - 11
Pasco Peruvian - 100 - 5 - •16 151
Potosi. La Paz, & Pervv. 50 5 91
Welch Iron & Coal 25 - 10 - 101 11
ASSURANCE COMPANY.

Alliance &kith & For. 100 10
Marine Alliance 100 S
IKON RAILWAYS.
Manchester & Liverpowl 100 3
M tsC ELL A N lOUS.

1$
63 i

.....-..----_____
MARK. PAID. PSI= PEI DRAWL
Atlantic and Pacific - £lOO - £lO • d
British Rock and Patent Salt 50 5 Si
Brunswick and Nova Scotia 50 3 51 1 1
Canada Company - 100 •10 - 52 351
Sinkable Loan Bank - 50 - I - 11
Gas Engine Carriage - 100 • 1 - 6
General Steam Navigation 100 5 • •
Imperial Plate Glass .100 II 5
Imperial Distillery so S 51 4
Mexican Company 100 10 101 II
Provincial Bank of Ireland 100 6 91
West India Company lOO 6 51
t

We have received the French Papers of Thursday,
and the Etoik of yesterday by Express; but they con-
tain little news. Accounts from Madrid of the Weis
ult. notice the departure of Prince MAXIMILIAN, Of
Saxony, and his daughter, for Bourdeax, where they
ate expected to remain • some time. The King of
SPAIN has issued a decree, permitting the importation
of foreign grain into the ports of Cadiz, Algesiras,
Se-
vale, Almeira, and Malaga. By another decree, the
KING declares unjust and arbitrary the arrest and all
the proc cedings instituted against Marshal Da LA CRUZ,
Brigadier-General Avcrusns LLANO, and Don FRAN-
Z liberty.
By AGUILA r COND, and they are all set at
By another Decree, the KING rewards Ds LA Cays
with the appointment of General of his Armies.
'An Envoy Extraordinary has arrived in Paiis from the Bey of
Tunis. A detachment of the Royal Gendarmerie is to set out
for Rheims on the 19th inst.
Advises from Trieste state, that the Captain Paeha was to sal
with his Seer, and B or 10,000 troops, in the first ballot April, slid
that instead of attacking Samos, his first attempt would be splint
Hydra, in the hope of destroying, at one decisive blow, the ad
aavai establishment of the Greeks. The accounts of the progress at
the Egyptians landed in the Mores, are various and contradictory.
.—Actording to some, barium Pavan* had already conquered all
the West of the Peloponuesuss and raised the blockade of Patna.
According to other accounts, however, which were more generally
,credited, be had indeed commenced his march towards that place
with the greater part of his troops; but having engaged himself in
the dangerous defiles which lead into Arcadia, had been attacked
on his way by a Greek corps, and driven back to Modon, with
the loss of many men, and what was of still greater importance to
him, of a part of his artillery."
MAT s..—:Rentes for Money,loll. 65e. For the end of the month,
101 f. Ode. After 'Changes they were at 102 f. for time.
Frankfort Papers to the Istnstant. reached us this
morning ; but they contain no political news.
_ _ _

'this forenoon we received Piedmontese Gazettes to
the 26th tilt. They notice the an ival et Alexandria of
an Envoy from the King of WintiaelilinGil with pre-
sents of two poi traits of his MAJESTY, and four Euro-