Star.
London, England, 1807-01-17 00:00:00

•
gelitltudn Calcrift) ise•• it th bad of the
prdnance Department, and it was granted. If the
necelEty of printing thufe Papers was allowed at that
it.rnutt be fill more necetfary now, when the
difburfements were much larger, fur the Houfe to
look with attention into the different items which
compored the Efiimates. .He therefore moved that
they fbould be printed.
The SECRETARY at WAR hoped that the Hon.
ember would be content with having- (as in the
la(l year) the Abaraft of the Ettimates printed, in-
Read of the Ettimates themfelves. That Paper would,
*a he conceived, convey all the information that the
Honourable. Gentleman could defire. The Haute!
would recoiled the principle upon which the Right
lion. Secretary of State (Mr. Windham) had the
ether night refitted a motion, conceiving that it would
be dangerous to print fuch a detail of the diftribution
of our military force as might give important infor-
mation to the enemy. He thought the fame principle
would apply againit the priming of the army elli
mates. If they were printed, it was well known that
they would get into all the newfpapers, and be a'
matter of public notoriety not only in this country
but in other countries.
- Mr. CALCRAFT felt bitnfelf obliged to repel the
charge brought againft the department to which he
belonged, for improvidence and negligence of their
duty. Ii was true that two years ago he had made
a Gmilar motion, and therefore he fhould not refill the
prefenr, but vote for the printing of the eflimates......
As to the equipment of gores, gunpowder, &c. for the
Wand of Ceylon, it was at the particular requeft of
the Governor of that colony that Engliih gunpowder
Spould be fent, as the powder in that ifland was found
*.o.bkof Very Inferior quality. It had been reCom-
=cadet at the fame time that these fhould be an
annual fupply fent together w;tn the ordnance ;. but
this was a recommendation that certainly was rot
acceded to by Government, although it was impof-.1
to refufe the prefent fupply that was demanded.'
Could it be expelled that the lately of the ifland, and
the lives and honour of his Majetly's troops there,
Mould be hazarded, by refuting that fupply of gnn-
fapowder which was Rated to be then abfolutelv necel
y ? It would have been too great a lofs of time to
feud the ordnance to Ceylon, and then to have fent to
India for the gunpowder, without which ordnance
would be of no ufe. It might however be regulated
next. year in a different manner. He had rnfe for
the purpofe of making this explanation, but did not
mean to florae the motion for printing the eltimates.
Mr. STURGESS BOJJRNE thought that if the
objeftion to printing the papers was merely that they
*ere _very voluminous, the objedion would be as
firong the other way ; for how could it oe erpeaed
that all the Members cotild make themfelves wafters
of that voluminous ellimatektinlefs they were printed
for their ufe, and unlefs they were allowed to take
them home and confider them at their leifure ? As to
the objctlion of their giving material information to
the enemy, he thought it dererved no fort of weight, as
the abated to which the Honourable Secretary con-
tented, and which bad ahead.* been ordered by the
Horde, "iould.cohtain the iabole of that fort of in-
formition whic.b the. Honourable Secretary was
afraid of being made known to the enemy.. He could
Ent brit. think. that the changing their lide.bf the
ufe had materially changed the opining'''. raf the 1
Gentlemen on the other fide, refptding the informs-
, .lion that the ltitnufe ought to receive, and be hoped
that they had now learnt better principles for their
olitieal condor. crier .f Meier I Hear! from the
atirae Barth:). Hcconcluded by giving his luppcst
In the motion.
Lord TEMPLE Rated, that his
,principal objet.
Lion to tire MOtion was, that it appeared to him to be
an indirea way, taken for the pnrpide of pogponing
the debate on the Army Eftimates. If than was the
• Oka of tire. Gentlemen on,ibe other fide he thottght
would have been a more manly way to do it in a
airea manna.. If it were not that the delay of
-Printing would unavoidably potpone the debate, he
Mould beim no particular objeltion to their Leing
printed.
Mr. ROSE did not fei cloy iltoug aljeaions to the
Printing, and did .not 'conceive that it could occation
much delay.
' Lord HOWICK thought the priming of thrfc pa-
pers would be very inconvenient, and would proddce
notch delay and unnecelfary expence. If, therefore,
it appeared to him, that under all the circurnaances
the Papers ought not to be printed, ire thndld not
mind the taunts which had been thrown out, or.
which might hereafter be thrown out, that they.
-hid °hanged their opinions and their principles when
they changed their. fituations." At the time when
- the Motion.wasmade, two years ago, for the print-
ing of the Ellimates, it was with a view to tl-,e nee
Military Syaem -Which wait then in contemplation.
Lail year, however, the Houfe was per.ftaly content
that an Abftraa of the Enimates fhould be printed,
inked of the Eaimates thernfelver. The Eaima,tes
were very voluminous, and there had been already
fufficient time for Members to examine them.
PERCEVAL fail, that as the Noble Lord
had 'begun with flaring, that he thould not Mind the
charges that might be brought againa his Majetly's
bliniders of abandoning their principles when they
changed their fituation•, he mutt fay, that lie heard
this declaration with pleafure, and hoped that he
would fee a great deal of reform and virtue among
them. Two years ago the eft imates had been printed
upon their motion, when in Oppofition,, and the latt
year, when they were in power, an abttraa only was
printed. It would, therefore, be teen, that it was
only one of their own precedents, which they now
brought forward in oppnfition to the motion. As to
the delay, he would alk, fuppofing the Papers could
not be printed by Monday or Tuefday, would it be
any ferious inconvenience that the Ettimates fhould
be voted on Friday inaead of Wednetday ? He could
net conceive how the Noble Lord (Lord Temple)
could poffibly imagine that there could be a feeling or
a will% on any fide of the Houle, to caufe unneceffary
.delay in voting the Amy Ettimates.
Lord HOWI CK ,in explanation, laid, that although
he was not to be difcouraged by taunts of 4, changing
his principles with his lituation," yet he felt convin-
ced that no Gentleman on the other fide of the Houk j
could thew that he bad, fine his coming into office,
departed from any of thofe'principles which he had
profeffed during any period of his political life.
Mr. PERCEVAL replied, that. he_clid rot mean
an abandonment of former principles, but merely of
tbsir former lint of condua. . .