Star.
London, England, 1814-11-16 00:00:00

CIVIL LIST.

Mr. TIERNEY moved for an account of the Ex-
penes: ut the Civil List for the years 1813 and 1814.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
opposed the motion, on the ground of its never being
one of course, but brought forward always after due
notice.
Mr. TIERNEY said, that if such was the usual
'rule, he was justified in departing from it, when be
'hewed that the Civil List was no longer an agree.
anent between the Crown and the people ; for the ex-
ceeding had become, by a sort of recognized proceed.
ing, upwards of £200,000 a-year. Besides, the tran-
sactions of the last quarter, he thought, ought to have
put the House on its guard on this subject, when a
Noble Lord (defending his relation) refused to give
any account of the money disbursed from the Lord
Chamberlain's Office. When there was a general
and settled belief in the public mind that great expen-
diture is going on, such as a large Palace in contesn-
' plation of being erected by the Regent, it was proper
to bring the subject before Parliament. Besides great
earners were incurred in the Diplomatic List, whictt
must come out of the Civil List. There was also A'36,000
expended in the purchase of a splendid mansion for
Lord Wellington at Paris. If th! accounts were laid
before Parliament from quarter to quarter, it would
be seen that a Committee should be immediately ap•
pointed to controul the Crown on the subject of ex.
pence ; for the expenditure of the Civil List for the
last year amounted to 41,300,000.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that in a short time he would have to explain tho
cause of the increased expence to the House, and,
therefore, he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman
might stop till that period ; for be thought there was
no necessity for the Accounts of the Civil List being
laid before Parliament oftener than once a year. That
subject should be fully discussed by Parliament, as
it only could provide for the increase of expence in the
Civil List, which had arisen opt of our political relit-
ions in a very great measure. The number of Ant.
vassedors necessary at the period of the late glorious
'evolutions on the Continent would not be a peruse-
sent expence to the country. With respect to the re.
tidence of the Duke of Wellington, that was certainly
In be paid for in tour years out of the Civil List, bey
fore which time it would not be completed. It was
desirable that the Embassy should be on a splendid
scale, worthy of this country, and of the occasion
which called his Grace thither. As to the other
items, they were founded upon rumours.
Mr. TIERNEY contended, that all his "rumours"
rare founded in fait, as would be seen in respect to
he Sinking Fund. He could not avoid thinking that
he Duke of Wellington's house was on an extrava-
;ant pl tn. It was true that £2OOO a year was to be
leducted from the allowance of £lO,OOO which is
riven to his Grace; but was it just or equitable to
addle his Grace with the expense ? There were al.
eady mansion houses iq Paris fitting for an Aloha:.
itdor, without incurring_ a debt on the Civil List of
'36,000. The Right Hon. Gentleman condemned
le appointment of Mr. Canning, with so large a say
r y as £14,000, when Mr. Bydenham bad oat
1,500, merely for the purpose of congratulating the
urn of the Prince Regent from the Brazils, when the
gratulation might hate been written for Mr. Syden•
in, instead of sending the eloquent Mr. Canning.
justified the appellation of 64 scandalous job,'
iich he had used on 4 former night, as a good old!
*tioned parliamentary phrase, and recognized by
well-disposed Christmas,"—(4l latch. ) All the
nds of Mr. Canning were to be provided for i some
places, otbeys are to be made Baronets; so dat

it was with these Cattlemen, as with the loot Let.
tery, they all got prizes, there were no blasks.—(4
laugh.) But, an truth, to be serious, the Right Holt.
Gentleman, by his embassy, would take g 90,000 out
of the public purse, at a moment when the country
was in the greatest distress in its financial department.
He would divide the House on the question, if he only
had two Members with him.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, that there were much
greater arrears at former periods in the Civil List
than now. In 180*, there were seven quarters doe,
and an Act of Parliament passed, providing, that at
any future period, if the Civil List should be Mb
quarters in arrear, then, as a matter of necessity, the
account was to be laid before the I louse. Then loi •
lowed another ,Act, providing, that when it hAc
£lO,OOO in arrear, the accounts should also be pm-
duced. To agree with the motion of tl e Right Hon.
Gentleman, would be in direct opposizihn to the pro.
vision of the two Acts which he had just referred to.
Mr. Hoskisson then defended the appointment of his
friend, Mr. Canning, and stated that the appointments
of MT. Sydenham were between 5 and 46000 a-year.
With respect to the embassy of his Right Honourable
Friend, the salary is fixed at the lowest rate given to
Ambassadors, which is 48,200; and he is desired to
confine himself within the pale of aeonctniy, on the.
score of ultra expenses, but in no wise to exceed
£14,000 per annum. He denied that the mission was
one of an insignifichht nature. It must be recollected,.
both in a political and commerciaineint of view, that-
it might procure advantages to this country of the'
highest moment. 'hie Right Hon. Gentleman then
defended the part which he had taken in accepting his
office—he did so from honest motives, and therefore
stood acquitted, in his own conscience. With respect
to the little reward (the pension) which he had received
for former services; that was now suspend. —(Ner.)
Mr. WHITBREAD said that he •agreed with the
lion. Gentleman( Mr.Huskisson) as to the propriety oT
acting with a party while that party Pursued measures
which he could approve of. Bat it remained to be
seen on what ground the Honourable Gentleman
could support the Chancellor of .the Exchequer on
the important questions respecting which he had dif-
fered float him in the two last Sessions. He had
been accused of attacking Mr. Canning in his absence,
but how otherwise could he attack a nun• whose ab-
sence was theround of his complaint. When that
Right Hun. Gentleman had been present. he (Mr.
Whitbread) had never shown any disinclination to
attack him on parts of his political conduct which he
had considered improper. As to the friends of the
Right Honourable Gentleman, he had never heard
that they had been dismissed by him because they
were an obstacle to his advancement, but because he
was unable to advance them. It was then that it
had been said by one of them, to I have lost my mas-
ter without a character, and I want a place!'—(A
laugh).—With all his shining talents Mr. Canning
had been unable to force himself into place, and
be therefore advised his friends to shift for them.
selves. They were, however, at present pretty well
provided for ; one had the Mint, another a seat
lan the Council, another the Woods and Forests.—Mr.
Canning's talents he (Mr. W.) was far from depre-
ciating.; but there was no one whom be was more as.
tonished to hear speaking with delight of them than
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for they were never
more happily exerted than in the castigation of that
Right Hon. Gentleman and his political friends, and
often while the House was in convulsions of laughter.
the present Surveyor of Woods and Forests,with other
of his friends, were seen handing, in the shape of quo-
cations, notes, &c. fresh cat-o'aine.taßs. to lace-
rate the unhappy victims. In accepting the em-
bassy to Lisbon, Mr. Canning had descended from
a height which he could never regain. The Ho-
nourable Gentleman admitted, that if any prospect
could be fairly held out that the consequence of the
appointment of an Ambassador Extraordinary, would
be the concurrence of Portugal in the Abolition of the
Slave Trade • he would consent that the
country should sustain the additional charge of 43000
a year. But would Ministers venture to hold out any
such hope ?—or could not the subject have beeq
equally well negotiated by a Minister ? The appoint-
ment was of a sum not exceeding £6OOO, but there
could be no doubt from long experience that the full
amount would be expended by Mr. Canning. A•
Right Hon. gentleman (Mr. Hoskisson) had ad-
verted to the gratitude due to Mr. Canning for the
provision he had made far his political friends. One
of them (Mr. Huskisson) who felt, and justly felt, the
strongest gratitude, was now sitting at the side of
the Chancellor of the Exchelber, having, by the
kind interposition of the new Ambassador Extra-
ordinary, obtained a place under Ministers. (Hew.)
This appointment would douUtless be equally fortu-
nate for the country, since, if consistent, lie would now
have an opportunity of realising some of those plans
of economy and retrenchment in our expenses, which
he had in a former Session so often and so strenu-
ously pressed upon the attention of the House. How
the great differences of opinion between those two
Gentlemen had been arranged be did not know, but
be presumed that some sort of compromise had taken
place. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Vansit-
tart) had omitted in his speech to give any explana-
tion as to the appointment of several other new diplo-
matic characters. With respect to the appointment
of Lord Wellington, from his pre-eminence in every
way, he was undoubtedly the fittest person to be se-
lected for the Embassy to Paris. But Mr. Whitbread
wished to know whether he was allowed a contingent
bill of unlimited expenses ? If so, of what possible
advantage was a fixed salary ? It was a formidable
state of things indeed, when all these enormous ex-
penses were proved to have been incurred out of the
Civil List, and yet no account of the excess was to be
produced. Suppose the Regent were to say that
would have a magnificent palace, that should cost
many thousand pounds, and that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer only was to be called upon to provide the
money, and to be acconntable for it, what course, in
such a case, it had been asked, would he adapt He
had replied, that he would send in his resignation.
But change the word Palace into cottage, and first
433,000 was granted, then 030,000, and afterwards
5e60,000 more, for which the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer was slooe responsible, and yet he had not
thought fit to execute his threat of sending in his re-
signation—stub an effect had the mere change of s
name I—As to the late fooleries in the Park (tor they
could be called nothing else), which had given
satis-
faction to nobody. they were all to be paid out of the

1

Civil Lits. sus PiglA its,she-charges -for the licentious,
;Intl diszottistg wpm exhibited during a fortnight in
Hyde Nip.. The. teipvuditure from the privy purse
w4l to bemosOetikwith a jealous eye, since so many
ebvsee been folind to exist. On all these grounds
he eaUed, ores the Chancellor to satisfy the wishes of
the country that an immediate investigation should
be allowed, and allow Mr. Huskisson to take the first
step towards realizing his favourite schemes of poli-
tical economy.
Mr. W. POLE Whitened with great attention to
the speech of the Honourable Gentleman; and, but
for the conclusion, should not have recognised the
question before the House. The whole of that speech
was taken .up with animadversions on Mr. Canning,
and any thing but the motion for an Account of the
Civil List. -Mr. W. Pole disclaimed any connection
with Mr. Canning; and assured the House, that in
acqepting office he acted from public motives. The
good of the country was the stimulus with him to
• I
action. He then stated his reasons for objecting to
tho froduction of the Account, on the grounds urged
by the former Speakers.
PONSONBY felt en doubt that the Right Hon. Gentle.
mail. who-bid just sat down, was ready at all times to serve his
cobntry, and with a proportionate share of responsibility ! and
what.was be sew t *Master of the Mint ! A very high situa-
tion, and a very heavy responsibility! TMs responsibility was
'doubtless Increased by the fist, that no Money was now, or was
in future, to be coined,* the Mint..
Mr. itATitURST maintained, that Parliament had already
,providedsiainst any excesses in the Civil Litt Expenditure, in
the curs Acts referred to by his Right Hon. Friead, therefore the
nefessity fur producing tbepapers was obviated. .
• Nit. BANKES was for producing the aecounts 'early, In order
that Paifiament, if necessary, might found some definitive
measure before the retest. If Mkdsten, however, would pledge
:themselves to produce the Accounts, to thew that ne material
excinarliad seism, he would not vote for the motion.
TIF.RNEY was disposed to withdraw the motion, if the
Rri„lit Hon. Gentleman would produce the papers next week
or gibe would agree to amend the Act, so that the accounts may
be made up by the Stb of January,instead of the sth of April.
IeIe.,LONG admitted, that if there wet not time for enquiry
into &e state of the Civil List Expenditure, that would be a
reason for altering the Act ; but after the accounts were on the
table, there would be complete time for investigation.
Me TIERNEY replied, and hoped the time for making up
the accounts would be altered to the sth of January.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had no objec-
tiap to alter the Act in this respect, but he would not enter into
any compromise.
Upon this understanding, Mr. TIERNEY withdrew his mo-
tion for the peneet ; pledging himself to bring it forward in the
ev.ait of the Act not being altered in the course of the next week.
The motion, after some observations from Mr. BANKES, was
then withdrawn.—Adjourned at Tr N O'CLOCK.

TUE EVENING STAR.