Star.
London, England, 1822-02-16 00:00:00

I ported and saved the country in the %,
times--(Hear)--.and that after the. chine as
liant.eareer, the, would not blast &e hopes .
country, by Destrew deem with sactifegiont hands- ,
immortal fabric which he had raise 4 .and by:ethici
the country was sustaioed amidst turpoepled cis
tresses—(Hear, hear.)—fie !was sure that the, Corn-
mom of England, who had withstood and overcome
so-many disasters, tette had'thased the despot, and
fastehed him on the rook.....(Hear • itestr)o—would not
sacrifice the great principles on 4ith they had hi-
therto acted, by an andicationiof, that system which
had carried the nation throufb ttne.xa ti pled struggles
and disasters. He felt that, if the great Man to whom
he alluded could descend again •to this world, and
witness the proceedings of that House, in order to
see whether they, would abandon those councils
which had elevated the country to so high a pitch,
the feelings of his mind would be, that they ought
not in a moment to abandon the wise and beneficent
plans which he had left for their adoption ; and he
hoped the same spirit that bad marked the whole of
his useful life would guide them on the present oc-
casion, as the best means of insuring public prospe-
rity and happirness ; and that they would rest on that
foundation of greatness which he had left as a last-
ing monument to posterity—(Loud cries of Hear,
hear).—The Noble Marquis concluded with the fol-
lowing motion
Resolved, That there be laid before the House an account,
entitled, An Account of the Receipts of the Income of the
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, in the year ending
sth January, 1821, and of the expenses within said period, ex-
clusive of sums applied to reduction of the funded or unfunded
debt.' Also an Account of the Balance of Public Money re-
maining in the Exchequer on the sth January, 1820.
" The amount of Money raised by additions to the Funded or
Unfunded Debt, in the year ending the sth January, 11121.
" The Money applied towards the reduction of the Funded
or Unfunded Debt, within the same period; and the Money
remaining in the Exchequer on the sth January, 1821. •
" A similar Account for the year 1822.
" An Account of the Estimate of the Public Income and
Expenditure of the year ending .sth JAnuary, 1822, exclusive of
the Sums issued for the reduction of the Deist."
Mr. BROUGHANI assured the House that he had
listened to the able statement of the Noble Lord with
a degree of attention and anxiety which he conceived
to be due to the importance of the question then be-
fore them ; and so far his attention was repar.i. He
had now,to congratulate the House on the change
which had that night taken place in the sentiments of
the Noble Lord, and the amendment that appeared
to have taken place in his tone and manner, as con-
trasted with his manner on a firmer night, when he
had treated those subjects with a levity that asto-
nished many Members of that House. Such was the
change and improvement effected in the Noble Lord's
mind in the short space of four days, that he seemed
to abandon all the tenets and invidious comparisons
which he had thrown out on Monday night, and at
length condescended to apply his mind with gravity
to the great subject then under consideration. One,
indeed, would now almost suppose that the Noble
Lord had a suspicion that his plan appeared rather in
a dim light—that it was surrounded with difficulty,
and had a veil thrown over it which could not be
easily seen through. For his own part, he (Mr.
Brougham) could not, as yet, perceive its distinct fea-
tures. But so far as he was able to see it, the ap-
peared to be somewhat of this nature:—First, that the
great power on which the country must depend was
the power of Nature; and, in the next place, that
relief was only to be obtained by trifling reductions.
One part of it was to afford the trivial relief of taking
off a shilling of the duty on every bushel of malt.—
The Noble Lord had representeJ him (Mr. Brougham)
as stating that the greatest misery prevailed among
some classes of the people. He (Mr. Brougham) had
asserted that there was no increase of consumption ;
but the Noble Lord now stated that, although there
had not been an increased consumption of malt, there
was an increase in the consumption of substitutes.—
And what wete those substitutes? Did the Nigiole
Lord mean to say that a substitute had been found
in the increased use of brickbats?—( Loud laughter).
Then soap was said to be a substitute : but that was
no answer to the complaints of the agriculturist. was
last, however, the Noble Lord came to the great sub-
stitute of all, which was tea ! Now this was the very
substitute which he had most to complain of; for it
appeared that, instead of the good old custom once
practised in England, of chinking the wholesome and
nutritive beverage called beer, the people were get-
ting into the practice of using a beverage not near
so wholesome—a beverage which was not a British
product, and the extended use of which gave no relief
to the British agricalturist,however beneficial it might
be to the agriculturists of China! ( Loud laughing).
—With the exception of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, the East India Company were the only per-
sons in England who derived benefit from the in-
creased consumption of tea; for it did not cause the
cultivation of one acre of British ground, and, there-
fore, it was nothing to the British agriculturist.—
He now had a word or two to say on the miscon-
ception which the Noble Lord appeared to labour un-
tier respecting industry and profits. The Noble Lord
had laid it down as a principle that the whole of the
taxes 'paid by a farmer amounted to one-seventh part
of his rent. He had indeed heard of calculators who
dealt largely in figures, and who were more fanciful
in fiction even than poets ; but this calculation of the
Noble Lord was more extravagant than anything he
bad ever heard before. Indeed nothing could be
more abstruse than calculations on taxes ; but the
Noble Lord, with his wonted agility, leaped over all
the difficulties attending this subject, and by his new
system of vulgar fractions, performed a feat that
covered him (Mr. Brougham) with admiration.—
Another position of the Noble Lord, still more unac-
countable, was that the reduction of taxes could af-
ford no relief to the suffering people—(Hear)—but
he did not say a word of the effect which taxes must
have in raising the price of labour, of diminishing
-profits, and of increasing the prices to the consumer.
Indeed he called upon the House tp, look to the
Ppoitwers of resurrection—(LOod laughter)—he told
them that everything was in a seviving state ; and ad.
vinced principles of political economy, every word of
which was a complete satire on the country—(Hear).
The Noble Lord had produced a certain system ; but
he (Mr. Brougham) had done no such thing : heonly
called on the House last Monday night to correct
the system that already existed, which could only be
done by diminishing the burdens of the people, ancl
not by the adoption of a ,Sinking Fund, which could
give no relief whatever ; yet the Noble Lord main-
tained, that if the whole mass of taxes were annihi-

17.9

the whole imOunt t 0 tiro, q
he did is the proxy of hisTrierkfthethaileellorof
Erchequer. On chit point, however; be was again
Lord. With '

issue with the Noble ' Bet he agreed Al him
that faith should be kept with theiiutdic creditot.-pal
Until the nmessky attired, let' filth.' be prestrVed ; j
at the some time let swore possible redoelion be mit &el
and he hoped the necessity would never strive. •The
Noble Lord referred to the high authority of a nos
who lodg ruled over the country he'aever &petted
the transcendent talents of-that man; but•the Mese
must recollect that the Chancellor of the Exchequer
and the Noble Lord had pulled the first stones out of
Mr. Pitt's great edifice in 1813, and left nothing of
the Sinking Fund but the name—( Wear, hear). That
great man (Mr. Pitt) would have spurned with indig.
nation the little plans of his underlings who followed
him. His name should never have been in the 'seeps
of those men at the time they took away that Sinking
Fund which they spoke so Much of now. In 1813 it
was destroyed by the present Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer; and instead of a Sinking Fund of twenty-
one millions, it was at last reduced to an uncertainty
whether there was any Sinking Fund at all. To say,
then, that the Gentlemen on his side were the enemies
of the Sinking Fund, was one of the greatest del,-
sions, whether arithmetical or poetical, which ever
was broached in that House. It did not appear from
the No:ile Lord's plan, whether any of the Civil List, or.
any of the Offices or Sinecures were to be touched--
What, then, became of his retrenchments? There was
A little heard of superannuationsi amounting to about
£150,000, and that was all that was to be gained by
retrenchment, and gained to the comforts of people
wh; were starving for want. This was all that was
to be done towards diminishing the enormous patron-
age of the Crown. He had heard of ten per cent.
being intended to be taken from all salaries, not as a
saving, hut as an insurance. That might he a great
deal too much to take from some; even five per cent.
would be a great injustice inflicted on men who had
embarked their whole lives and their health in the
offices they held. In other cases it might be a great
deal too little, particularly in the higher offices,, and
utterly incompatible with the just demands of the
people, and would be a complete mockery to them.
Why could not the great offices of State be filled
merely for the honour of them and the patronage,
without any salaries? They might be said to prop
and adorn the Crown ; and they would not adorn it
the less by acting without any pay, and these places
would be better if no salaries were attached to them;
they would be more sought after if not more than
half the salaries were attached to them, and the holders
of the places would serve their country better. Not
a farthing more ought to be wrung from the people
than was absolutely necessary for the safety of the
country. There were some offices which he thought
ought not to be touched at all, or touched with great
delicacy—he meant the judicial offices-_(Hear).—
When a man was made a Judge, he was taken away
Flom a lucrative profession. He knew one who,
by being made a Judge, abandoned half his in-
come at the Bar. It appeared that the next, and per-
haps the most notable part of the Noble Lord's plan,
was to borrow four millions, to be lent by the Bank.
That sum was to be disposed of in a way that was not
very clearly explained by the Noble Lord. If he un-
derstood the. Noble Lord correctly, the lending of the
four millions would apply to a two-fold purpose. In
the first place, a portion of the sum was to be applied
to the purchase of Steck, for the purpose of keeping
up the price of agricultural stock ; it was to be another
pulley, by means of which to support the market;
2dly, what was not so applied, was to go in aid of the
Poor-rates. How the application of money to such
an object could afford any relief to the country, or
even to the parties themselves, he was unable to com-
prehend—(Hear, hear).—The Noble Lord seemed
unaccountably afraid of a torrent of gold setting is
upon the country. To apply the Noble Lord's own
figure, he appeared to have a perfect "hydrophobia"
of gold—(Hear and laughier).—He seemed to appro.
hend that the setting in of such a torrent would prat.,
duce ravages of which no man could imagine the ere
tent; but so long as paper wasnot the exclusive medium,
while it continued convertible, it was beyond the power's.'
of all the Noble Lord's financial plans, aided as be
might be by Exchequers, to keep up gold beyond its
just level. That level it would most assuredly find.
As to the latter part of the plan,.it was still worse is
its principle. The first part of the plan was nuga-
tory ; the latter portion of it was worse still—it was
mixhieyous. It was neither more nor less than ti
lend money to every parish that chose to apply, and
thus, in fact, encourage extravagance—(Hear, hear).
The sound of such a proposition had been to him
most marvellous, to ohe too, who was not albeit mt.
used to be compelled to listen to most marvellous
propositions. The remedy for the -benefit of the
Country Gentlemen—for that was the shape which
the plan first took—was not of so miraculous a cha-
racter. Could there be an individual who did not
see in a twinkling, that if the rates were relieved dila
year, they must be doubled next year ?—(Hear, hear).
There would be the principal to refund as well as
the interest. The original plan was ridiculous and
absurd ; it had been scouted, by those who first ven-
tured to think of it ; it had been abandoned by the
original proposer: but even that scouted plan, of
lending Exchequer Bills to the Country Gentlemen,
was not so bad as the one now submitted by the Noble
Lord to relieve the various parishes—(Hear, hear).
To what could it lead but to a wasteful and careless
expenditure? for the money would get into the hands
of overseers, whose office lasted only during the
year. The Noble Lord at length reached the cli-
max on which he perched his plan. He was not only
to run through the isarishes, lending any that would
borrow—a mode of relief that woad impose on such
parishes double rater Rsr the succeeding year • but
the Noble. Lord Mas also. to extend aelief aid of
public works—(llear, hear). What public winks

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dulitt. works Norio! enati*opa.
ct, wonder abet some besi-
,Peasikleitbat key, pseh. proposition,
it had, been made—what he re-
' with kit own ears. What the
Ihe could not iroagiutr, inscept
to t• carry into effect the plan
Lord at .a former period,:44 to
4 them up the nett".- 4,4 laugh).
public works, it ought to be only
coold afford them.; it was very
. weeks could be vraryaated
circumstances,. If parishes eastern-
00p> would ha far-more advisable
thick of carrying their public
,}forks into 0440atien till they could afford to pay for
140415,,) If, the, Were stiandateld to commence such
sinprPvetikom before they. had own mortar/ t•
Mf4 th4tieWendituye, and the Offer cif .Governinent
ptp lead.,weolcl operate as bush stimulus, who .was
Akre that did.not see that it would inevitably induce
,sit oilcan to squander money on what, after all,
ttkpc,. might only be imaginary improvements?
:was there that did not see that it was-calcolated
ilariareate ,parochial extravagance, and-usvas thaede-
Ambleisihen the country had so lcng suffered under
public profusion ?—(Hear, hear.)—Woulti it relieve
the country, thus to create in every parish that spirit
of profusion, of which the Government hod-so long
been guilty, as he sheered on a former evening, by
teference to the Finance -Committee's Reports 2
Meer, treat.)—He had already detained the House
too-long ; but before he concluded he earnestly im-
plored the House to trust to themselves, and
not to trust the managea:ent of his Majesty's
Ministers, if the desire were to save the country.
,Goo forbid that any human being should covet the
places of Ministeisl He thought none could be so
desperate as to think of succeeding them, therefore he
called on the House to compel the present Ministers
to adopt measures that would relieve the country.—
He called on the House lobe wise ere it was too late;
he implored them to be wise in time, if they really
desired to save that public credit which the system
of Ministers threatened, and was most likely to de-
stroy. Let not the Country Gentlemen he afraid--
the Ministers ~-ould not think of moving ! They had
only to tell the Ministers that there must be reduc-
tions—and he would answer for it, down they would
come next day with the desired tednctions ; only
bid them to perform such work, and perform it
they would. The Ministers. had been too long
listened to—too long believed—(Cries of Hear, hear).
It now became the House to think and act for them-
selves; they had too long trusted to empirics—they
had too long confided in men who had only to bring
forward the name of Napoleon to gerthe money and
the gold out of the people's pockets ; they had trusted
Ito men who only deemed it necessary to say," Jacco-
bin," and .. Radical," as an apology for taking away
'the people's liberties. 'Their authority for what they
did was perpetual alarm; their specific was endless
evacuatiOn—(Cheers and laughter). At such a mo-
ment, he again solemnly implored the House to bear
in mind the importance of the vote they were about
to give. If they desired that the Ministers should re-
duce, that reduction should be forced 'upon them. In
his estimation, the vote of that night would be equal
in importance to all the interests of the country—to
any decision that had taken place within the last
thirty years: and he therefore hoped that his prayer
to them would not be vain, in imploring them, if
they desired to rescue the country from its difficul-
ties, to compel the Minis:ers to adopt measures of re-
duction—(Loud cheering).
Mr. HUSKISSON denied that the Noble Lord
had changed his course in consequence of his (Mr.
Brougham's) speech on Monday evening. He, how-
ever, might be allowed to retort on the Hon. Member,
that he had changed his course in consequence of
what had fallen from the Noble Lord. At that late
hour he should not think of closely following the seve-
ral arguments of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman ;
but he could not avoid expressing the hope that his
(Mr. Brougham's) unsound principles and contradic-
tory inferences might not mislead the country or
Parliament, for, if they were adopted, they would
lead to a course that could not be easily retraced.
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had referred to
'his speeches of 1816-17 ; they had only to recollect
some of the dangers they then had to encounter. It
would be recollected that masses of the population in
the manufacturing districts were without employ-
' ment, and necessarily in a distressed condition. Those
distresses were so dwelt on, that the Government was
compelled to apply to the Parliament for new laws to
secure the people against those outrages that might
have' followed, owing to the manner in which they were
treated., At that moment what was the language used ?
They were told that our commerce must be so bene-
fitted as to enable it to compete with that of other
countries. He idnitted that the difficulties of that
period were great ; the Revenue,• too, was then in a
declining stalk.: but there was confidence in the
amounrof capitaVanci a reasonable belief that prospe-
rity would revlie: The 'result proved that such con-
fidence was correct, .But of all the monstrous doc-
trines that had been put forward by the Honourable
and Learned Member,
.theniost monstrous was, that
low prices weie occasioned by excessive taxation, the
tax, too, being where the grower had the monopoly
of the market. „The Hon. and Learned Gentleman
held that excessive taxation was the cause of the dis-
tresses of 'agricelture. He (Mr. Huskisson) maintained
that the main cause was a redundancy of supply,
coupled with measures adopted regarding the cur-
rency. When the war broke out in 1793, the country
did not mite what was requiredfor the consumption,
but 14 'a seoies,,of .measures And exertions that diffi-
culty had, been overvonve.*•, When the last Corn Bill
was passed, the courittx, he-considered, had arrived
at the period when the produce of the country could
meet the demand. 'lt only passed under the convic-
tion that the country was not able to grow what was
sufficient to meet the consumption. And there was
another 'equally unfortunate impression acted on at
that price
of
period,
)feitiitysbnmilaiinelgsby,
thoughtthHeefixing
for the country a cli a
Bill
wihtianduiniwnpcledun......a.e
As to the real state of the country, lie thought the
)46:iaidtdo,lbeeetith;e •
t r
factoryofui oci evidencef n:r
bee atdh-
overturned a tcneosuu°l4ld4
any
preemie,
vies or new principles of economy. The
'consumption afforded the means of reds
redundancy of supply ;and he therefore thou,

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. . _
U hen SlitSitAtittertif •
is Jatedi Ow people eau_ sot t . - riltert.llWlPotsrttbst. pohli
is which they had a right tolook.to in the, prelreittsten..!fillis Of tildi?. His did na
T
wof thtle etiffertngs. The people had a" I ' l'elieTt it•peasibi
"e ppAo.theit:itepresentatives tie thi pirtiss.whp ; ;illeuld.htt-Antitie,l ..lt had
ih to relieve thew Croat all burdpas that mu net As- IMO to had how* with
s- -usury for the public service. He considered ever gmblis.:wouiss toitldnot he
a- thing like a triflingtetlection as an insult to the copor was some intention
le try...,(Eksir,-. /tear)._ _ lit. looked fss a-Liega "'due*" posed hr the Noble L
id of taxes : the more,they,reduced the burdens the more digibtletPred*Yeadfillti
of they would act in -the strict hoe of their duty. the 1( tky ;AWOL of puta
ii. Noble Lord disclosecLoaepart of his project, which lithett:thEptrithes..ceuld
:h consisted itaentakiug„a,sea'n of trAe olilhons, which: ratte, libilruli.: that such
es was to be added to the SitiltingPund, so as to make under 4flratkr citICUITIM
m the Whole amount to iiir tiilliontatiti a quarter. This piscosi im,pmeetrients, it 1
A he did is the proxy of hisTrientfthethaikellOrtf Ilie..lq49tlrg.ilihegt. not to th

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he most satia- '
; he thought ;I
ticeived theo-
le increased
reducing the
thought there