Star.
London, England, 1809-06-20 00:00:00

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the Hon. Baronet haehtated, as he could prove by tion, eaeo a saving of Eleven Mi;liens IR the Public Iged. The next was Lori Waggon Trahs..
their advertisement of 1806. That the proper and Emit:Wittily of the Country. He. trust-ed with,.cone:.which cest 43,3001. aayear, anti which heleflieeee all
sufficient notification of .consequences which would. -fidekie bn the • indulgelee'of,the Souse, as. he, aide i men agreed in' thinking totally useless. They wee
attend an offence against theiitresolution, had been forViard at :
present siinply,fron *wanner in which , Only fit for heme-service, where the. y were noti-repqaurci:da.r
fully made. Ige did not,- see any other measure by he I*l been e;ipid on, having.hineeelf bad nq ievnei That thee were of no use bed been fecund both at Cc-
which the Directors could effect, the prevention of . tion of troilbtlng theleseasesata tboauleject during the. enhagep 'Red in 'Spain. The total expence of the
such practices better than'by 'the present one. The preeent Seisitene-Whas he had stated was, that if that':"Shaff amounted to 449,64.914 he shouslaevbede peby
the ex.
Board of Directors exercised only that discretion „liaise were 'the' faithful 'guardians of the .public
,a4y drne'tefshew that 200,0001; of it were improperly
which, as far as related to removing their officers, purse, the 'Mount *of the Income. Tax might. he incurred. The Recruiting Staff amens eel to 34,95ei,
when they ,found necessary; they were possessed geeatlY'gitoirrisisidi'if neeentieely afeVed- .. lithe war . and if he added the loss arising. from the recruiting
of. But the resolution of the Hon. Baronet, if adopt- wak conducted lsrx /louse so constituted as he had systerte'froM ;Ram of levies, he might add a less cf
ed,.`would in fact be a mandate to them not to exer- suggested, he hall tin tinuht k mighttbe carried on at. P 0,0001• which woutel have been
cise their own free will. He shoulttnegative this re- infinitely less expehee thainwhakit snow cost.: Since cellent plan infrodulced by •the Right Honourable
solution, and concluded by :peeing the previous he had said sof he had •Seenlaeguage not different, „Gentleman (Mr. 'Windham). The expense
.cf Ar.
question. but stronger than hirnwp, used-by-a celebrated man Imy Agents was 61,9751.; but he should he able to
Officec consisting
The
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Mr. BANKES wished, in the strongest terms, to whom_. he • Was convinced the gentlemen • opposite . demonstrate, that by the appointment of a General
impress on the House the absolute power, which in would not attempt to under-rate; be-meant the.late Agency Office this` might be conducted for toeeeee
their own concerns was vested in the India Directors. Mr. Pitt; whose words -he begged liberty to read. 'ln the War Office, he • had already• shewa that a
He considered the proposition of the Hon. Baronet . That great man, when reform was attempted to be in- saving of 24,0001. a-Year might be made, and Lenugatory,
nugatory, and that he would. do much better by troducedinto the repre;entation in the year 1782,asIced ,
ncalen head v
calculated
was the o
on a similarrdsitativnizniq..rt
tlalepm:cl Pay
et
moving the repeal of the Act which was made on if the puhliC hadelways had a.House of Commons arlio
this head. . : would act the part of checks on the encroachments of horse artillery, • 113,0001. ; artillery drivers,
Mr. WINDHAM said, that the virtue of some attemptedlo be made on the people, who would al- 229P001. ; contract horses, 9..99 Ohel. This last sent
Gentlemen was so outrageous, that it him in ways stand up the people's friends ; would the bee- ,at least would full to be struck off, and still there
mind of an opinion on female virtue in a certain. deps Which tile people then endured have ever beeil ! would remain theewholh horse artillery, and all that
county " that the nation could not thrive, unless a incurred ? Was this not stronger than any thing he couldpossibly be wanted for the service. The next,;
certain description of women were burnt alive."— (Mr. WARDLE) had said ? He had pnly stated, that article was 40,9451. for ammurfition for defence of
1.4 laugh.)—On such occasions the House had el. in a House so constituted as he' had imagined, the the country at home, exclusive of Ireland. This he:
ready interposed; and it ought now, in order to take burdens of the people would have been less than they conceived to be a strange and excessive waste. The
off the effect of such a disgraceful measure. .It may , now were. He (Me. Pitt) that such burdens would next article, for fortifications et home, amaotecai tfoeeuntde:
be argued on the strength of an anecdote which he . never have been incurred. It had been stated that no less a sum than 700;0001, Hearing of the works
remembered, that if this measure of recal, etc. were he attacked the characters of public men. He denied. at Romney Marsh, he had gone, to see it,
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adopted, it 'would prevent the crime. The anecdote ! that there was 'a single instance in which he lied that they had built 27 Martell° Tox ors, intended to
was; that a Prussian soldier, having his bat blown off . done so. He had attacked systems, but not indivi- carrya long gun and howitzer, lent built seas onlytebe
while in the ranks, was, by the rigid discipline of the duals; if he had done so, he must have acted contrary capable of retrying the long gun. Even that gen, how_
service, chastised severely, whether it Was occasioned to every principle of his life. As to systems, 'ho evetecould notbepointed within 2.soyards. of I.IIC ICC of
by accident or not; however, fewer hats fell off after- would attack them so long as he had a seat in that the tower (leaeingsomtrelideadpoints),riot eventoiow
wards—(A laugh.)-He did not think that would, House. In that too he was twee . out by the great : water mark. Thereis besidesan extent of shore of six
however, warrant such a measure es the present, for character already alluded to. He had stated that miles withetit batteries, more favourable for landing
which he saw no necessity. . there was a defect in the nation, and that the disease • than that where the batteries arc built. Oa th:s alone
Mr. WALLACE thought the resolution of the must take effect unless a cure was applied. That upwards ofiel,ooo,Coo had been thrown away. The
Directors 'one which they had with consistency and a • without Parliamentary Reform, new wars and new • Reyal,. Military Canal, 25 miles long and eo eases
regard to the efficiency of their acts found necessary taxes must take place. That on the present system ' broad, could not be. defended ; boats might be sate
to adept, Though he felt much for the unpleasant no good minister could be of use to the country ; that from any fire from the inside of the parapet, and there
situation of the young men, yet he felt much more no good man would continue minister. ' Had he is not a single flanking defence. There could be but
for that of the Company. The arguments of the HOs (Mr. WARDLE) said any thing so strong as this ? : one opinion, that we did not want defences of the kind,
nourable Gentleman opposite in extenuation would IHe should now, without preface, proceed to state at but thus was the public money wasted. In one part
go the length of justifying the sale of all offices. few of the particulars on which he was convinced ! a Military Road was ploughing up, and another was
Mr. STEPHEN warmly supported the motion of savings to a great amount might be effected. He ! forming in Scotland. It, he presumed, would soon
the Honourable Baronet. • • • observed that an increase had taken place in ibe ploughed up also, and a new oneformed in Wales:
Mr. GRANT observed, that the practice which it our expenditure, during the present year, to the Of the £700,000 expended in* the :loyal Canal, he
was intended by this measure to suppress, had a ten- amount of seven millions. This naturally led i thought £500,000 might have been saved. The next-
dency to overthrew the concerns cf .the East India him to look into the documents With which, ! point was theCommiseariat—the foreign amounted to
establishment altogether, and consequently he should like every other Member of that House, he was ; £1,543,000, and in Ireland £75 per cent. was paid for
accede to any mole of preventing it. The question furnished. The first saving which it occurred ! delivery, He believed in this department £500,000
was now before a Court of Proprietors, and he did to him might be produced without any inconveni- i a year might be saved by economy.. Barracks was
not think it right for the House to interpose. ence was in the Household Troops. The Blues , the next, the expenditure in Which for Great
Mr. FREEMANTLE supported the motion. of the Horse Guards, amounting the one to 600 and I-Britain and Ireland -was £761,9e2e there being in
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER the other to about 800 men. • For parade 5.00 men [ Ireland numberless barracks going Co ruins, which
conceived, that if this Resolution was adopted, the was amply sufficient, and more than there coal be i high rents were paid for,'hired buildings. He should
question wofild not be left in that unprejudiced state any use in retaining. . Indeed, he understood that of i undertake next session to shew that a saving might
which was on all hands allowed to be desirable. It late years the Blues had never been employed., The Ibe made- to the country on this head to the amount
was impossible the Honourable taronet could have number of cavalry in our service exceeded ever/tree-1 of £350,000. The next was the article of cloth!
any other intention than that of prejudicing it when sonable proportioh, amounting to about 23,000. A I ing, on which he would undertake that a saving
he framed that Resolution. If adopted, the House force- of 15,001 was amply sufficient for the service of should be made of nine shillings per man, producing
should go farther than giving to the Directors a mere this country, in addition to the force in the East In. £135,000 a year. It was confessed that aesrofit of
opinion ; they should tell them to exclude from their dies. There might safely be a reduction of this force to :Riper cent. was charged by the Turnishee, tieciiiisi he
books the resolution which they had found necessary 15,000 horses and 18,000 men. The present expence lay ,sixerienthe put. of his money. We, in ot liii.`jde.
to adopt, and in fact, the House should make by- under this head, was about £1,277,000, and the pro- Ipartments,.paid bekrehand, withontanycall on, fes to
laws for them. If the House should refuse to give posed reduction would produce a saving of £900,000 sda so ; would it not he better to borrow here, at 'leer
their accord or dissent to this measure, it would be a year. The next article of expence was our foreign ,or foie per Cent: and wive the 20 per cent. which" we
much better, and less prejudiced. corps, amounting to 27,600 men, besides artillery,ahe •at present lost This would amount . to.. 3.5,001. a
Sir S. ROMILLY was surprised to hear austere expence of this force was £1,005,800, and of them- 'year. On ccionial corps and supplies sent to Spill,
sentiments 'of justice from the opposite side of the 3700 were cavalry. He would maintain that in a a saving of 100,0001. On Packing and- Insurance
House. They should recollect what they had done house such as he had suggested this would not be suf: to foreign stations, not less than 20,0001:. By a view
in the case of a Secretary of State, for whom they tend. • Lord Chatham in the war 1757, even when `of the Military, Expenditure for thelast fetweyears, lie
conceived theremay he a locus penitentiz; and also the the bugbeir of invasion was afloat, sent all foreign :hewed that .during the tizo'yens the late -Adria.
indulgence given to Beauchamp Hill, though, proved troops out-of this country. That Noble Lord regarded nistration were .in office, there evv a saving of
to receive bribes, before they would proceed to-adopt them as an unconstitutional force; and be, Mr. War- 2,000,0001. annually. The next-swing lie thought
such a measure of severity, as the recal of young nett die, was satisfied that such a House as he had alluded might be produced was in the Avenue. - fri the
over whom the shield had not been thrown.- to, would not vote a single guinea on account of the Post-office there was an wees...expeenditure since
The ATTORNEY GENERAL believed, 'that ' mainten..nce of them. He wished no reflection on this Mr. Palmer's • dismissal of 24j0,61201:ariing from
the arguments of his Honourable and Learned I force more titan the subject required ; some part of it bad management. In the Cuespenr, a great saving
Friend were made use of for the purpose of intro- i had behaved well, but others had not.—lnHanovere might be produced by the checking of :patronage,
ducing his closing reflection—( Hear ! hear !) -The : our troops were obliged to act as guards on them to ' in the stamps, the collection coat 130;001e1. a year.'
power of the Directors was admitted on all hands, as, prevent their deserting. In this opinion he was borne' —He was convinced it could be Well done by
to execute what they considered advantegeous to out by Sir R. Wilson, who was employed by Govern-- taking away the 100,0001. and leaving .30,0001.
their concerns. But would not this resolution convey ment. He thought thatnot a guinea should be issued on In Scotland a per centage of 2QI. wai • charged on
an intimation to the Directors that they should act 1 this account. There was another grievance coeneeted, window lights ; 161. on malt; Sec: end the Receivers
from the impulse of their own sentiments ? Upon with this subject, that Officers of high rank were erne and Collectors were suffered to havela-ege bounces in
the whole, this resolution would go farther perhaps ployed in it, put)aver the heads of British Officers, by their hinds. Why was thiseuffered.? ...By al4iwing
'then was even intended by the Hon. Mover. having their commissions antidated. Another useless a fair per centage on the awhole revenue of 31. per
Mr. P. MOORE defended the motion, epnceiving corps waseheßoyal Staff corps, very expensive, but of cent. for Whiclett could easily be collected, a wing
that the matter ought not to go any farther, which it which he could find no account except to the amount of £1;051,000 i-year would- be, pteduced.. The ex-
would do,without parliamentary interference. Nothing lof 20,0001. a year. They were neither more nor less pence of collecting the revenue was yearly encreasing,
coule be more unjust than to visit the sins of the fa- I than engineers, and should rather have formed an ad e whereasehe rate ought to decrease as the sum to be
ther upon the children, which would unquestionably 1 dition to the engineers. The militia amounted to collected grew larger. In Ireland the per centage was
be the case, if the severe resolution of the Cubit of 1 109,070 men, and the expence was three millions.— still higher, and exceeded all bounds. By reducing
Directors should be persisted in. . By allowing this description of force to be absent it even to the high rate in England, a saving of
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Mr. LUSHINGTON supported the previous glees- during the harvest month * saving of 300,0001. would £388,000 a.yeer would be produced. The. excess
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a 51

tion. An ipterferente with the Directors of the East
India Company, such as that now proposed, was, in
his opinion, by no means justifiable.
Mr. HUTCHINSON argued, that if the House
negatived the proposition of the Hon. Baronet they
would act in direct opposition to the tendency of their
conduct during the whole of the present Session. He
gave the motion his decided support.
Mr. H. SMITH maintained the expediency of
coming to the previous question on the motion before
the House.
Mr. N.. VANSITTART hoped the Court of Di-
rectors would re-consider their determination.
Mr. H. THORNTON expressed his opinion, that
the proposed resolution was unnecessat y. From what
had been• stated by the Hon. Chairman of the Court
of Directors, it appeared, that it was not intended to
enfOrce their determinatior. with the severity supposed
by the Honourable Baronet.
Sir T. TURTON made an animated reply to the
arguments that had been urged against' is motion..
The House then divided, For the previous question
77---Against it 35—Majority 42.
On our re-admission into the Gallery we found the
House discussing A motion of Lord OSSULSTON's,
for printing several- returns of Offices at Home and
in the Colonies, which had previously been presented
by Mr. Huskisson.
After some conversation, in which. Mr. Huskisson,
Mr. H. Thomson,. and Mr. Bankes participated, and
which turned on the eipediencrof:avoiding expente in
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the printin of unnecessary documeßth -
Lord OSSULSTON waved his motion with a view
of renewing it to-morrow, if necessary.
PUBLIC ECONOMY.
Mr. WARD4E.. rca, to make his promised nie-

be produced. On the Welsh corps asaving of 20,0001.
would be occasioned. Another species of force, which
was totally useless, was the Lt!cal Militia, the erpence
of which amounted to 458,5001. 'and their Staff to
306,3901. Of all profligate expenditures this Wel the-
Most profligate. If discipline was the object; 800,000 D
for the Staff could never have bearliteeesiaty.- If they
hiii got Adjutants and serjeauts, with the assistuice
1 ffici of the militia, that would hate heen suent • yet
for this one month in the lest.), yas deettledexPedi-
,i erg to incur an e.xpease of 0 0 0 $ sl.' 'As 'to their
1 clothing. too, that ,wiss,,suyter 'tictiss. Before it was
',voted; they had their voltuitect clothing, which wal
' perfectly good yyst, iu such tiuses ss these, new clothing
:was thought nectios,arg. , If any :f lin\tlS re4lll*, Stith'
expensive clothing was needless." The sclOtheilurnishi:
edsaine to about blioalpaN . Z lrlus,lnt:4l,ned that a
jacket. and trowsers, which coo lialli asuinea,
li4t
i would have beak mintiest; nay, aheyWOillit4rave
beetl,esttally pleased Withbut clothing- oS, *ith it.-:i;
On .t .s, there 46114 mite, a:isaving3f -7f)0,0001..5.64
The next artiCle Was Volildliers, and' tn- em s there
was a sum of 240,01101. just fpr_changir.g into ano-
ther home service. . This he thought might better
have been saved. The estimate of the Volunteer ex-
pence for this yeai..was 1,000,0201. ;'for the last year
ar amounted to 1,000,0941. It seemed rather strange
!'that it should amount totto much doting the &few
' rear, when 240,0001.- had been .paid for exchanging
from this service into the Local Militia. In his •Opi.
• pion, there never were better volunteers than those of
I.lrelnd :in the year 1780, who served without pay,
' Mitt td whose protection the whole country was left.
lln this opinion he Wikigain borne Out by Sir Ro-
bert Wilson, that in a force of this kind, neither ex-
pellee nor the 4p:slating of attire should be encoura.

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expense of the Irish Post-Office amounted to 50. per
cent. while its revenue was less than that of Seetland,
which did not cost 121. percent. The,money paid
to the Auditors of Public Accounts was thrown away.
-It was impossible theynbciuld ever get through them.
It eras the duty .of that • Housq by forrr,wg into
•Committees to effect this desirable qbjecOyithout
putting the country to any expellee; That would
produce a saving of £75,000 a-year. The next sub-
ject he should touch on • was the Bank,: He had
made up an account. ,of debit and,crecti*tweett
the Bank and the Country, and found that there
was a balance in the Country's favour of £3:38,738,
besides the £210,000 a-year for transacting the busi-
ness of the countyy, but which
,w 4,5,4 4y. remunerated
14 the:balances of cash left in tlAe . Bank, aac; which
4-ptivattelaasker would esteem a suthejent teumnera-
tioia. He should.not touch on sinec.ures,, &c.. farther
than 4o state, 'that far from being freeholds, 'as some
persons thought them, in the yar 1744 2 offices of
feller, &c.• were revised and redsced one third, in
• consequence of the great •enereitse of tle expenditure
of the army, &c. There was paid this year on boun-
ties the sum of £523,00.0. How far this was a pro-
per expenditure he could not say. He objected to
the sums for buildings, such as a new Knt, amounting
to /1198,775 ; Houma. in Downing-street, #9,000, &c.
By the late contrast -with Mr..Borton; the copper coin-
age was furnished at a profit. ,There was no occasion,
therefore, for any extravagant expente in building a
new mint. Ministers, however, were probably I re-
pared to take of the .Bank ,restriction. He also
•objected to the issue of such large sums to our
Wolk' ahrOnd, • witbmtt seeing, that the greatest
economy was in the management of them.
'The Hottontable . rbe next. proceeded to the na-
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