Star.
London, England, 1822-02-06 00:00:00

himself could not but be of the same opinion, enter-
taining the views hadid on the question. The Noble
Earl held that the evil arose from .a superabune
dant produce, which must be checked. Now, it would
surely be madness to increase that lespevabundant
produce, which mast be the necessiey ennsequence
of live millions of money being eaployed In agricul-
ture. He said thus much on the subject of agricul-
tural distress, not with a view of anticipating the ge-
neral merits of the question, which would more
properly conic under their Lordships consider-
ation at another-time, but because he would not
be understood as sanctioning any measure which did
not appear to hill) calculated to effect the object in-
tended. The only effectual remedy to which their Lord-
ships could look was in a diminished expenditure.—
In adverting again to the unhappy state of Ireland,
as noticed in the Speech from the Throne, he felt
deeply upon the subject, for reasons which every man
ought to feel—reasons of shame and sorrow at the
outrages that disgraced and brutalised so important
a portion of the United Empire. Yet, at the same
time, ,he felt that, in selecting as a Chief Governor
for Ireland the Noble Marquis who had recently been
sent over to that unhappy country, no choice could
have been more wise or more judicious. That dis-
tinguished person was not to be surpassed for a vigour
and reach of mind capable of applying a remedy to
all the evils, both legislative and political. No man
who did not possess such extraordinary powers could
be competent to such an arduous task. Yet even
from his exertions no material advantages could be
derived, unless, soaring above the prejudices of the
past, he provided remedies for the tuture---iHear,
hear). No good could result from one particular act.
The evil originated in a complication of cause, and
the cure could only be found in a complication of
remedies. The condition of society in Ireland was
different ffom that which existed in any other part
of the world. This was the great cause of the evil:
The Noble Marquis now at the head of the Irish Go-
vernment would not attribute to any other cause that
spirit of outrage which broke forth into open rebel-
lion, unless he believed, what no enlightened man
could believe that there was something inherent in
the Irish people which could not be corrected—some-
thing to render them a semi-barbarous race. He
would say, that the anomalous state of society in Ire-
land, which was the cause of the distresses that had
been enumerated, was entii ely to be traced to the
English Statute Book—(Hear, hear).—He was ready
to adopt the most prompt and efficacious measures
for restoring tranquillity and good order there, but
he hoped that any new powers with which the Exe-
cutive might be invested, would not be confined to
penal enactments. Referring to that part of his Ma-
jesty's Speech which contained an important allusion
of a political nature, he felt in a great measure re-
lieved from the necessity of making any observations,
on it by the explanation given by the Noble Earl who
proposed the Address. He entirely agreed with the
Noble Earl that in a contest between -Christians and
Infidels—between the Greeks and their oppressors,
no Englishman of feeling could be indifferent to the
result—(Hear, hear). There could be but one feeling
upon such a question; yet, while joining in the sen 7
timents delivered by the Noble Earl, he would say,
that no active exertions on our part were called for,
and it was perfectly compatible with the strictest
neutrality that Greece should once more be what he
was sure their Lordships wished her to be—free and
independent--(Hear, hear).—The Noble Marquis sat
down expressing his assent generally to the subject
matter of the Speech, though it contained some state-
ments of which he could not entirely approve. With
this impression on his mind, he should not oppose
the Address.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL, though he did not
think that the observations of the Noble Marquis re-
quired a general explanation on his part, would still
refer to some points which the Noble Marquis had
brought before their Lordships. The Noble Marquis,
in allusion to the reductions which had been made in
our naval and military establishments, would fain re-
present this year as the first time that such reduc-
tions were contemplated. But it would be in their
Lordships recollection, that in the course of the last
year reductions had been effected to the amount of
from £1,000,000 to £2,000,000; and it had been then
said by his Majesty's Government, that the diminu-
tion of the public burden, particularly in the army
and navy, was to be gradual. Whether the reduc-
tions which had lately been made would prove satis-
factory to the Noble Marquis or to their Lordships,
he (the Earl of Liverpool) could not take upon him-
self to say, till the necessary explanations and details
were gone into. He only wished to guard his Ma-
jesty's Government from the imputation that any class
of persons had been treated with more harshness, or
with a greater measure of injustice (a more appro-
priate term), than those who, filling high offices.
were willing to deal out to themselves, while they
felt it their duty to advise the reductions in question.
Making every allowance for the feeling which called
for such reductions, he could not say, at the same
time, that they were of a nature to afford any mate-
rial relief to the agriculturists. They may prove sa-
tisfactory to the country, but it would be vain and
idle to suppose that any sensible advantage to the
agricultural interest could result from them. He
fully agreed with the Noble Marquis in the position
he had laid down, that no one great interest could
be served is the prosperity of which all other inte-
rests did not participate. The agricultural and com-
mercial interests were:one. Every attempt to disso-
ciate and distinguish them was detrimental to both.
He admitted, however, that the agricultural interest
must always be the first, however important might
be the commercial and Manufacturing interests. But
if the commercial and manufacturing interests pro-
spered, they must necessarily serve the agricultural
interest; and those who would strike a blow at the
two former, would inevitably injure the latter—
(Hear, hear).—The Noble Marquis, in the Course of
his speech, adverted to the risk which commercial
men ran by excessive speculation; but they were now
much more Cautious than before the war, being con-
tent with moderate profits. That system of-gam-
bling which manufacturers had practised in time of
war ceased entirely on the, return of peace. There
was every reason to believe that commerce and ma-
nufactures rested now on a Much more solid founda-
tion than during the war. Coming to the, remedy
adverted to by die Noble Marquis, as having been.
adopted within the last twenty-four hours, he could
assure their Lordships that no such proposition as

that stated by the Noble Marquis had been made 14
'his. Majesty's 'Qovernment. They had never..
posed: P. 6 'a loan of ,000,000 as al means of iir
ji
relit:Pao the agriculturists,,: It was true thataheY ,
had a communication with some persons ott_tbionof sit
ject of agricultural distress, ancaoposn
been made. respecting the inue of Exchequer Bills,
which proposition would yet prObably he subtnitted
to. the consideration of Parliament. He admitted
that this question rested its a great degree on the
question of supply mad demand : and it could not be
forgotten that the vast importation of foreign corn
which took place in the years 1816 and 1817 was the
great casisenf the agricultural distress*-which after-
wards was so sensOaly felt. rt was elearthat Oistrest
would be the consequence of over-production, and in
illustration of this fact, it was only necessary for him
to state, that within four years, not less than seven
millions and a half of quarters of corn had been im-
ported from Ireland, while five millionsand halfhist
of quarters had been imported in the course of
year. Here, then, their Lordships would at once see
the real source of the evil. Here they would see a na-
I tural evil, to which an artificial one was superadded,
in the methods taken to keep down the markets. He
was ready to allow that the issuing of Exchequer
Bills was objectionable in principle ; yet, as applied
to certain branches of trade, such a plan produced a
f practical effect, and the money borrowed was repaid.
He would not take upon himself to state how far the
principle could be applied to the agricultural inte-
rest. It was quite clear that, a free gift of any large
sum would be nothing but madness; and no advance
ought to be made, unless on good security. What-
ever proposition might be submitted to the Legis-
lature, he hoped it would be of such a nature that
the Noble Marquis would not find it necessary to
make any comments upon it. With respect to the
convulsed state of Ireland, which had been noticed
by the Noble Marquis, he (the Earl of Liverpool)
should that night lay before their Lordships certain
communications which had been made by the Irish
Government to his Majesty's Ministers. Those papers
would be in their Lordships' hands to-morrow, and
-would inform them of the grounds upon which 'he
'should propose to arm the Executive in Ireland with
additional powers, which, however, he intended
should be confined only to the duration of the pre-
sent Session, wishing that the question of the state of
Ireland might be maturely brought before their Lord-
ships before the next recess. Ilis Majesty's Govern-
ment felt that they would not be discharging their
duty towards the loyal and peaceable subjects of Ire-
land, if they did not afford them effectual protection
against the present system of disgraceful outrage that
pervaded the country in different directions. No man
was more ready than he.to appreciate fully the high
tribute which the Noble Marquishad paid to the dis-
tinguished individual now at the head of the Execu-
tive in Ireland ; and he was convinced that that indi-
vidual was at the present, moment exerting all the
force of his great talents, and calling into request all
the energies of his posierful mind, not only to correct
the evil, but to eradicate the cause of it. There was
one circumstance peculiarly connected with Ireland
which he felt it necessary to advert to. The insurrec-
tion in that country had begun before ever the King
landed upon its shores; and notwithstanding its
prevalence, no Sovereign*as ever greeted with more
joyous satisfaction than his Majesty was by the whole
of his Irish subjects. He should notice another cir.
cumstance. Not long ago, he saw a letter from a
person of the highest character in Ireland, in which
it was declared that, notwithstanding all the disturb-
ances that had lately occurred there, if his Majesty
were again to visit that country, he would be received
with the same satisfaction. Then, if their Lordships
were to look at the accounts that had appeared in the
different public prints, and at the several Proclama-
tions published in Ireland, they would not find that
there was anything like a systematic spirit of opposi-
tion or disaffection against the Government, nor that
the present discontents arose out of any differences
with respect to religion. He thought it necessary to
notice these circumstapces, in order to direct their
Lordships' attention to a proper view of the subject,
in order to shew that the evils which existed in Ire-
land had not arisen from any conflict between the
governors and the governed ; and they all wept to
prove, that the condition of the country was different
from that of any other country that was ever heard
of in the world before. It would be then for their
Lordships to investigate and go to the bottom of this
great evil, and apply such a remedy as would be ne-
cessary to put a stop to it.
The Earl of BLESINTON said, in alluding to the
state of Ireland, that he fully agreed that it was im-
possible to appoint a more competent Lord Lieu-
tenant than the Marquis Wellesley: it was impossible
to find any man more capable of fulfilling the duties
of his situation, or a man who possessed a mind more
endued with iolitical wisdom, or more capable even
of military execution, if such should be necessary.
Hitherto Ireland had, unfortunately, been governed
by men who had been appointed to their situations
merely from their political connections ; and, for the
last twenty-two years, the only Nobleman who had
conferred any real benefit on that country was one
who had been allowed only to remain there for a
single year. The Noble Mover of the Address had
talked of the grievance arising from so many persons
being absentees from Ireland. He himself fully
agreed in that sentiment, and that was one of his
on thatysestaietcn
icemcoorbyeeeu l
etnai art:
ae
All
Lc:aBae
:cis,
idiswot absentees
ben: the
snpiaedt
wasri
tsedi
he
dteeeemfi
stated
was
h therefore
pc
asuy soscause
greattreeoornfyae
never
employment,
htggo theirar
grievance,
ni
reepdovvlpa: observeetunclon.
reasons for disapproving of the Union ; because the
Union had increased the number of absentees, and
bneceaus
etmthinelemployment
dissentious.4:)t
t it . shipsa
any specific measure for the benefit of Ireland. The
oafndlretilalendeothunatt4aeiy;latihrde
Noble Marquis was entitled to his thanks for having
heso aelioleygaradtvuoclaateteddat:elec aHouseuse
prospect that at length appeared of an intention on
the part of the Government to interfere in behalf of
that distressed country.
The Address was than agreed to Neminedissentien te. •
The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the reading of
the Sessiorral Orders of last year, which was done.
His Lordship then moved that the Earl of Shaftes-
bury do act as Chairman of the Committee • during Committees
tfiepresent Session.—Ordered.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL taid-btfore the House 1
proposed
grievance.

certain papers received from the Marquis Wellesley,
,relative to the present state of Ireland.—.Orderl to
nton the table.
'At hal~:past !EKES the House adjourned.
HOURS OP COMMONS.
A; twenty minutes to two o'clock, the SPEAKER
enteed the House, but did not immediately take the
Chair. There were thed upwards of one 'hundred
Mertibtri Mort. . • •
At two preciselyciftintiMtikvit Amain
ing in .tbe .meantime, the SrmAiia mi* the disk
and- Sir Thotnas Tytiwhitt, Mater oldie 'Black Red.
immediateiy entered, and 'esumrnOned the House to
the Peers,, to bear Speech.the . The Sreatut
•tiletkenneede4 to the Wouse of Lords, and was ;K.
compaited by every Member. in the 'House, mitt the
,eiCeptiOn of Sir
_oforrt tlesititen,
Scai-1, Mid Mr. HoblUirse, who remained 'chilli
The &sigma did not again retnyti to tte linos:
till four o'clock, when the Right. . Hon.-Gentleman
'took the Chair, and the Hotiserisimed.
• . Intw- warri:
The SPEAKER. then acquainted the Rouse, due
Since their last meeting, pursuant to the 54th ,of Geo.
, HI. cap. 4,1 e had caused new Wits to ;mile fly
Members to serve in the present Parlianient—f o.le
county of Louth, in the room of the Right Hon. Johai
Foster, radiate the Peers by the title of Lord Oriei
for the Queen's County, in the roans if the Right Ho-
nourable W. Welkisley Pole, Created Lord 11Cryb,,.
rough - for the county of Antrim, in the room of IL
J. Huih. Seymottr, Esq. deceased; for the University
of Oxford, in the room of the Right Hon. Sir Wu.
Scott, created Lord Stowell ; for the- Borough (i
-Shaftesbury, in the room of the Hon. Edward
bord, called: to the Peers as Lord Suffield ; for tile

eounty of Salop, in the room of John Cotes, Esq. for
the &rough of King's Lynn, in the room of Sir Mar-
tin Browne FoDoes, Bart. and for Castle Rising,
the room of the Earl of Rocksavage,calleci to the Pc,rs
by the title of Lord New borough.
Several Members took the oaths and their seats.
Upon the motions of several Menibers, new Wri3
were then ordered for the county of Montgomery, is
the room of the Right Hon. Charles Watkin Wil-
liams Wynn, who had accepted the office of Presi-
dent of the Board. of Coutroul ; for the Borctr„.;11 of
Buckingham, in the room of Wm. Henry Fremantle,
Esq. who had accepted the office of a Commissioner
for the Affairs of India ; for the Borough of Sr.
Mawes, in the room of Joseph Phillimore, Esq. who
had also accepted the office of a Commissioner for the
Affairs of India ; for the University of Oxford, in
the mom of the Right Hon. Robert Peel, created one
of his Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State ; for
- the Borough of •West Looe, in the room of Henry .
Goulburn; Esq. who had accepted the office of Chief
Secretary for Ireland.
The SPEAKER informed the House, that the Clerk
had prepared the usual Sessional Bills.
The Clandestine Outlawry Bill was then read a
first and second time. •
The customary Sessional Committees of Privileges, .
arc. were appointed, and the usual Standing Orders
were then agreed to. .
Mr. G. IfENNET-gave notice, that he would take
the earliest opportunity, as soon as he heard the wc.d
"-Supply" from his Majesty's Ministers, of brini;ing
under the consideration of the House, the sub;ect of
the Funeral of her late Majesty—(Hear, hear).
Mr.LUSHINGTON moved, that the Speaker do
issue his Writs for the Election of Members for—the
Borough of Carnarvon, in the room of the Hots. Sir
Charles Paget, who had accepted die office of 6:ocut
of his Majesty's Bedchamber; and for Dunitiies, is
the room of W. R. Keith Douglas, Esq. who bad been
made one of the Lords of the Admiralty.—Ordered.
Sir ROBERT WILSON rose to give notice, that
he would, on Tuesday, the 12th instant, move for
Copies of all Correspondence which took place be-
tween his Royal Highness the Commander-in-Chief,
Lerd Sidmouth, and himself, relative to his dismissal
from the Army. Seeing the Noble Marquis (London-
derry) in his place, he wished to ask if it was his in-
tention to oppose the production of these papers ?
He had asked the question, because he meant to
govern his line cf conduct by the answer to be re-
ceived; if no difficulty was thrown in the way of
producing the papers, he would reserve his exposi to
another time; but if it was now understood that his
motion was to be opposed, he was bound to say that
he thought it his duty, when making the motion, to
enter upon the subject, and lay open all its details to
the House—( Hear, hear). •
The Marquis of LONDONDER It Y said he thought
it odd that a Member of the House should, ppon no-
tice of motion, be called upon to state what coure
he meant to take when the motion was made. At tl:e
present moment he was not prepared to give an an-
swer to the question.of the Honoorable Member. lie
could not say that-he -meant to oppose the motion, if
it was any convenience to the Hon. Member.
Sir ROBERT WILSON said, he had asked the
question less for his own convenience than that of the
House. He then.repeated.his notice of motion for
the Production of all Correspondence which took
place, in the months of September and October, be-
tween the Commander-in-Chief, Lord Sidmouth, and
himself, relative to his dismissal from the Army.
Lord EBRINGTON gave notice that he would,
shortly after Easter, bring in a Bill to secure the
more effectual Representation of the People in Par-
liament—(llea r, hear).
SPEECH rftott THE THRONE. •
The SPEAKER then proceeded to inform the
House that the Hoese had been to the House tf
Lords, where his Majesty was pleased to deliver
Speech, of which he had obtained a copy, and he
would now read it to the House.
The SPEAKER then readdie King's Speech (for
which see the Report of the Debate in the Lords).—
As soon as the Right Hon. Gentleman had tinishod
reading the Speech,
Mr. ROBERT CLIVE rose for the purpose csi
moving an Address, in reply to the gracious Speech
which had been that day delivered from the Throne.
The first point, he said, to which he called o.*
attention of the House, and upon which he believed
'there would be haunt feeling of satisfaction, was
the passage in which his Majesty spoke of the strong
assurances of airiendly nature which he had received
from foreign dowers. It would be gratifying to the
House to learn that since their last meeting nothing
had happened to break in upon the general harmony
which prevailed, and the continuance of which spat
upon all hauds so desirable. Differences of a se.ious