Star.
London, England, 1815-02-23 00:00:00

JAIL FM ABOLITION BILL.

On the motion that this Bill be read a second time,
Sir WILLIAM CURTIS opposed the measure,
on the ground of the injurious effect it would have
on the City prisons. The principle of exemption, in
favour of the three prisons, would cause the com-
fortabk jails of the City to be overloaded with deb-
tors. It was hard upon the City of London to be
obliged to receive all debtors-; but although be was
ready to give up his own opinion on this point, as an
individual Member, he would deem it necessary is
take the sense of the House on an amendment, that
instead of now, the Bill be read a second time this
day six months.
Mr. BENNETT entered into a detail of the rea-
sons why the prisons in question were excepted. He,
for his own part, felt the strongest inclination to abo.
lish these fees; but he bad not chosen to clog his Bill
with any additional clauses which might end
its passing. His former Bill was lost owing to is
suffering the introduction of such clauses. But be
had found that the most extraordinary exaggerations
had taken place on the subject of the exemptions.—
He was surprised that the Honourable Baronet did
not know that prisoners were not enabled by law to
transfer themselves from the King's Bench and the
Fleet to the City Jails. But if they could, be was
sure nobody in his senses would think of removing
himself from these prisons to the gloomy dungeons
of those in the City. He alluded to the Report
which had come before that House on the State .of
the Prisons in the City, and contended it bad been
proved that the management of them had bemskla-
ringly disgraceful to the City.
Sir JAMES SHAW insisted that the effect of the
exemptions would be, that the City Prisons would
become more crowded with debtors than ever. He
was of opinion that the greater number of persons who
now came into prison for debt were sent there by their
friends, for the purpose of availing themselves of the
Insolvent Act.
Mr. HOLFORD said, the nature of the Bill be-
fore the House seemed to be entirely misunderstood.
There was alleady an Act in existence which autho-
rised the Magistrates of counties to alter or abolish'
the fees taken at prisons; and in many counties they
had been entirely abolished. The only effect of the
present Bill was to make that operation general which
was now only partial, and to make the Magistrates
give a general attention to the subject. If the fees
taken at any prison were very great, this was the

very reason why they ought to be abolished. Allud-
ing to persons in circumstances of inability to pay the
fees on their discharge, the Bill would not leave
them dependant on the humanity, or under the in-
fluence of the jailor, as was the case at present. The
Honourable Aldermen need not be afraid that p•ople
will be too fond of going to such a place as New.
gate; although the Bill would not prevent them from
transferring themselves there if they like it. How-
ever, these Honourable Gentlemen had done their
duty to their Constituents, by standing up to prevent
the progress of a very useful measure.
Sir WILLIAM CURTIS complained of being
misunderstood.'
Mr. H. SUMNER said ,a few words in explana-
tion of the reasons for exempting the three Prisons
alluded to.

Alderman ATKINS made some observations upon
the injurious tendency of the Insolvent Act, which
lit loose profligate characters, who were supported by
the most tadustnons classes. _ _

Mr. GORDON suggested to the Honourable Al-
dermen, that they would have as opportunity of
moving for the expunging of the clauses they objected
to, when the Bill came before the Committee. 1
Alderman C. SMITH defended the City against
the allusions that their prisons had been mismanaged,
and the debtors not supplied with provisions ; after
which the question for the second reading of the Bill
was put and carried. It was then read and ordered
to be committed on Monday.
Mr. PEEL asked, whether the Honourable Gen-
tleman intended to extend the provisions of the Bill
rto Ireland ?

Mr. BENNETT replied, that such was not his
ntention.

ABUSES IN COURTS OF JUSTICE.

Mr. STEPHEN said, that he rose with great re-
luctance to notice a misrepresentation of his speech
last night, on the subject of the Bill of a Right Ho.
nourable Baronet, for inquiring into Abuses in the
Courts of Justice. If the error in a Morning Paper,
in which his sentiments bad been misrepresented, were
suffered to pass unnoticed by him, it would be calcu-
lated to give offence to the feelings of others, as it
had done to his own. He was much surprised on
being told this morning, before he had read any of
the papers, that one of them had reported him to
have admitted the.existence of abuses in a particul it
,department, meaning that of the Masters in Chan-
cery, and to have said that he voted on that ground
for the proposed Commission of Enquiry. The He-.
nourable Gentleman then read the whole of the mis-
representation he complained of, and observed, that
so far from having acknowledged the discovery of
any abuses, he had said that no ground had been
made out of the existence of abuses in that depart.
ment, and if any Gentleman could prove their exis-
tence, the measure should have his vote. It must be
in the recollection of most of the Gentlemen who
now heard him, that this was the very reverse of what
he had said in the last evening's debate, when, in con-
sequence of art allusion made to his vote on the for-
mer occasion, he had risen to explain the grounds of
it. He had then, as before, condemned the enquiry,
as not being called for by any abuses either proved,
or distinctly alledged to exist, but gave the reason
why he had voted for it, after having expressed that
opinion against it. It was because, finding some
insinuations which seemed to point at the offices of
the Masters in Chancery, among those in which
abuses were supposed to exist ; he had invited ex-
planation on that point, and bad declared, that if
any Gentleman would assert the existence of abuses
in that quarter, he would vote for the inquiry.—
And an Honourable and Learned Member having,
in reply, declared his belief in such abuses, though
not as proceeding from the Masters themselves, he
had thought it became him to vote for the motion.
Such was the explanation he had given the last night,
and it was, to be sure, a very extraordinary mis-
representation of it to state that he bad admitted the
existence of the abuses in question. It was to make
the challenging inquiry a confession of the charge ;
it was virtually to make him impute blame, nat to
himself only but to his colleagues, than whom men
of purer honour were not to be found in his Ma-
jesty's dominions. It was impossible that he could
pass over such a misrepresentation unnoticed ; yet as
be did not suppose it to be wilful, be would content
himself with having thus publicly corrected it.
Mr. GIDDY said a few wards' which we under-
stood to be his expression of a wish to vindicate the
people-of Helstone from corrupt motives, and having
done this, be had no disposition to go farther.
The House then went into the Committee' and
the Chairman having reported progress, asked leave
to sit again. •

TUIS COMMITTER 01 WAYS AND MEANS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
having moved that the House go into a Committee
of Ways and Means, and it having resolved itself
accordingly,
Mr. CALCRAFT asked a question respecting the
Financial Resolutions, and
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
in reply, expressed his wish to postpone the I urther
consideration of the Report on them till Monday.
Mr. GRENFELL wished to .ask a question or
two on this subject. The Right Honourable Gen-
tleman, if he had understood him coriectly, had sta-
ted the necessity of having a loan every year, for
four years to came, and that the taxes already sug.
gested provided for the Charges on these loans.—
What he wished to know was, whether these taxes
were likely to be sufficient to provide for the charges
on the loans in contemplation during the ;.vliole of
that period, or whether other taxes are necessary to
meet these expenses I
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
was understood to reply, that it was impossible for
hint to give any other answer to such a question than
had already transpired. From what he had said be-
fore, the conclusion must be, that the taxes might be
, found sufftcient to provide not only for the charges

PRICE SIXPENCE-HALFPENNY.

on the Loan for the present year, but for those which
might be wanted in the following years. Supposing,
however, that it might he necessary and unavoidable
to keep sip, from. the extraordinary circumstances of
the times, a peace establishment, which might be pre.
nutted to amount to nineteen millions a-year through
the whole of the next four years, then it might his
concluded, that it would be necessary to provide four
or five Millions a year for the charges of the Loans
during those years.
Mr. TIERNEY said, that it might then be under. .
stood, there would be not only A continuance of the
six millions, but an addition of new taxes i• those just
proposed, it would seem, must be made permanent,
in order recover all the expenses of the Loans for
the time
.in question. But..what was to become of
the other six millions %vat-it to be carried on as a
part of the permanent estab}ishmert of. the count: y ? .
The CHANC,ELLOR. oi:the EXCHEQUER
replied, that this. would bers-initijectl JOE trig wisdo.n
of Parliament. to eonsider 0f... ‘•
Mr. TIERNEY ivsullied. Meal this six millions
was-crabs continued for, ort, yeaie, that ;he amquot
of the loan must depend on the amount produced by
the taxes-1 • .
.;
The *CHANCELLOR of die £CHEQUER
rejoined, that it was not impossible the taxes might
fall short,, in which case the amount of the loan must
be increased.
Mr. PONSONBY asked if the House were to an
derstand that they were voting supplies for four years
to come ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said the House must understand that they were only .
now.voting the Supplies for the present year.
Sir GILBERT'HEATHCOTE wished to know
whether any part of the taxes that are to be raised
are intended to be expended in repairing the fortresses
in the Netherlands ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that it was not possible for him to answer .this ,
question.
Mr. WHITBREAD moved for certain Returns .
relative to the circulation of Newspapers, and the
amount of their Stamp Duties. They consisted of.
an account of the number of Newspaper Stamps- is-
sued in the last three months up to the 31 of May,
1814; 'and the 'same in the three months preceding
the Pith of February, ISIS, distinguishing those for
the Daily Papers and those for such as are published
weekly, or at any other periods. Also for an account;
of the number of Newspapers sent from. London to.
the country by the Clerks of the Yost Office, who act.
as News-agents..--Ordered.
Mr. POLE CAREW said, that as many !tom.'
ing Papers do not go by the post, it Would prove an
obvious benefit to the revenue to extend the tax ui on
the Stamps, rather than upon the pilotage.