Star.
London, England, 1830-02-26 00:00:00

anything of the mode in which Parliament may deal
with that subject, but this I will take the liberty of saying,
that it will be impossible that your lordships will ever agree that the
charter of that corporation be renewed unless they give greater faci-
lities than heretofore to the formation of joint stock banking com-
panies. It is utterly impossible that the Bank of England should
supply all the currency of the country ; and the proof that they can.
not do so is to be found in this, that they have done all in their
power for that purpose—they have established branch banks, and
done all else that they might, but without success. My
persuasion is, that nothing will better supply the existing
vacuum in the currency, than the establishment of banks upon the
Scotch system. (Hear, bear.) I do believe, that the extensive
adoption of that system would have the effect of safely and instantly
tilling that vacuum. Such banks would proceed upon prin-
ciples very different from those which governed the present
class of country banks. No one bank knows anything of the man-
ner in which other banks carry on business. They, again, know no-
thing of what is going forward in the bank of England, and the go-
vernment remains in perfect ignorance of the operations of all.—
Hence arise the most complicated and monstrous difficulties. But
of all the sort of banks of which I speak, publicity would be their
essence; and, from the number of persons concerned in them, the
fullest information would be possessed, and thus directed, respecting
the course and variations of foreign exchanges, and the vibrations of
that golden chain upon which so much depends. A body, so formed
could easily discern the earliest approaches of danger; and from
them such contractions of their issues might be expected, as
a sound and broad acquaintance with the subject might
be expected to supply, corrected and canvassed by a
numerous proprietary. At all events, whatever be adopted, the
banking system must be put upon a footing safe and substantial,
such as will, on the one hand prevent over issues, and on the other
guard against unwise and dangerous contraction. It was with views
of this sort that the measure of 1826 were proposed; but, as I have
already said, they were rendered Insufficient by the directors of the
bank feeling it to be their duty to refuse their assent to any relaxa-
tion of the privileges of which their charter had put them in pos-
session. Notwithstanding that this refusal acted so prejudicially
upon the establishment of joint stock banks, seven or eight were
set up. and, I believe, at the present moment are doing good bug-
m.sti ; but the number Is too small to be productive of any extensive
benefit, and this disadvantage is obviously owing to the existence of
teem: restrictions which the privileges of the Bank of England im-
pose. In making this statement, Iby no means wish to convey
any censu-e upon the conduct of the Bank of England. I have had
much communication with the directors of that corporation during
the few years that I was connected with his Majesty s government;
and the results of that communication, combined with other cir-
cumstances, have left the fullest conviction on my mind of the
earnest desire which they entertain not only of discharging
the obligations they owe to their constituents, but of doing all
in their power to promote the public good, in discharge of the
difficult, serious, delicate, and at times awful duties, which they
are called on to perform I should do them great injustice if I
slid not state, that even when I thought them in error, and looked
upon their conduct as injudicious, 1 still saw most palpably mani-
fested a disposition, an earnest desire to do justice to the other
proprietors and the public. The next subject to which I desire to
cline' your lordships' attention, is that of taxation. It will be re-
membered that at no time have I joined in those indiscreet attacks
which from dine to time have been made upon the king's govern.
meta to reduce the taxation. Perhaps It will be said, and not
unnaturally, that the situation which I held tor some years ren.
tiered me the least likely of all men to join in those attacks ;
indeed it was my duty for some years to resist them; but I
think that resistance was not carried beyond the proper limit.
During a short period of my connection with Government,
it was my fortune, as its organ in the other house, to pro.
prase the repeal of 9,000,0001. of taxes ' • and now I will call
your lordships' attention to the practical effect of that reduction. If
the consumption of the taxed commodities had remained the same,
tie revenue of the country would have been reduced to the amount of
9,000,000!. What, however, was the fact ? The accounts of 1827
showed that there was a loss of only 3,000,0001. and the succeeding
year was only 2,000,0001. below the income of 1827. I need scarcely
Then, my lords, praise the wisdom of those reductions ; the more es-
pecially when I state the fact that the revenue did not suffer to the
extent of the reductions—nay, that the loss to the public income bore
no proportion to the relief given ftom taxation. It was all along
stated that there would be a certain loss, and it was foreseen that
that loss would not equal the reduction ; but there were few be-
yond those by whom the measure was proposed who anticipated
so large a reduction with so small a diminution of income. To this
I have to add, that in sonic branches of the public revenue, so far
front lowered duties producing diminished receipts, the direct re.
verse was the effect produced.-increased income followed upon
reduced imports. 1 allude particularly to the alteration of duties
affecting Scotch and Irish spirits. When those alterations were
first proposed, they were immediately objected to on the ground
that the people would then have increased facilities of indulging
in intemperance—that they might drink in the streets ad
deitues—and that the change, though a pettuniary relief, would
be a mural injury; fasts, however, falsified this prediction.
The parties who made it overlooked the fact that the change
del not make legal spirits one whit more accessible than il-
licit spirits had previously been. On reference to return',
your lordships will see that if consumption had remained the
sane, the loss to the revenue would have been 800,0001. But
not only was there no loss to the revenue, but it was actually
found to exceed fonner7years, though the reduction of duty was
as much as 50 per cent. Thus was there gamin without loss—
pecuniary advantage without any corresponding eactifice. Upon
such data as this, then, I might say to your lordships, if you could
spare 1,000,0001. of the public income, you might repeal
U. 000,0001. of the taxes. From the papers presented to the other
house of parliament for the year 1828, after making the necessary
eetiuctions from both sides—from the one the reduction ef-
fected by means of the contract with the Bank of England for
tiic payment of half-pay and pensions ; and from the other &ide—
al.: side of payments—the ainuigement made with the trustees
of those annuities, we perceive that the balance is 3.231,0004 that in
11129 it was 1,711,0001. making a total of 4.942,0001. The average
of those two years being 2,471,0001. and taking that average of
2,471,0001. as a fair criterion of the present ear, we may assume for ,
Mai a balance of at least 2,470,0001. Now l think the circum-
stances of the country require that a vigorous advance should be
nubs by the government in reducing the taxes. In saying this
nawever, I beg to be understood as not undervaluing the reductions
which have been made. I think those reductions are worth a
great deal. (Hear, hear.) The estimates have been reduced
1.300,000 f. now it' we add to this the estimated average reduc-
tion of 2,470.0001. it gives us in round numbers a sum of
3.700.0001. If I ant asked what I should recommend to be done
with that sum. I say, first, there are three modes In which it We
be di'Mtd of- ist. That surplus of 3,700,0001. may be applied
to the reduction of the public debt -2d. It may be spelled solely
to reduce taxation
„ltd. It may be applied in a manner that shaft
tarn a combination of both modes. The last of these is that
'.htch I should think it advisable in Parliament to adopt.
While I was eennected with his Majesty's Government there
was at one time a surplus of 7,000,0001., of that sum 2,000,0001-
sere applied to the reduction of taxation, and 6.000,0001. to the
liquidation of debt. lam aware that debt and taxation cannot now
be interfered with in any degree approximating to the same propor-
cone ; but I think that a reduction of taxes might be to
the extent of 1,700,00411., leaving 2,000,0031. as a surplus to
guard against contingencies, and to save the Government from the
risk
ef being obliged to borrow money in time of peace (hear,
Ivear, hear ! nom the Duke of Richmond, and one or two
other peers) ; but I conceive that an estimated surplus 0f2,000, ail! prove quite sufficient to prevent any necessity of lug in debt.
I should certainly be the last man jn your lordship'sghotiee to r
reipmend so large a reduction of taxed" did I -not believe thate
t:ie 'situation of the ceiuntry made it a dut in his majesty's minis.
tern to atttattin that reduction. IVhen (consider that the various
ways in which the taxes operate, I am induced to consider that I dal
ni mole than discharge an imperative duty your in calk g lordships'
atter:nen to sonic of the various ways in which taxation operates. It
dt.tihixties the actual amount which a consumer cam afford to enjoy
of she. several articles taxed. In maitufactures it diminishes
the
quaruity of capital, skill, and itielustry which can be applied to the
ma,ty oancives on which it directly operates, to say nothing of the
souragement which it affords of illicit There is one
"lest al surd d mischievous tax, of whrhae
Y desire
o:ketie the repeal -I mean the tax upon hops. Allobjections to all
min taxes combine themselves against the tax on hops. Directly
dat once it interferes with the produce of the soiL You might
34 well tax apples and pears while ase growing, or rather ee.
.0 t re they have grown to maturity, awhile they are in the field,
tut the duty is levied upon hops before the proprietor has realised
afra seirotgedlehsyhitilhine
variations
on than. There is no produce of the soil so much
of the weather aa bops. One year the duty
chap down to 40
G41.1--the'm may be high wx 400,0001.-;-the next it may suddenly
()eject of taxation that
0004 It is fur that +A other reasons the most unfit
ta can easily be conceived. Who can point out
Utit 'Nem anything more objectionable titan bringing att excise. officer into a garden ? I find that the average amount of the tax on
tioPSI 240,0001. the repeal of that would give a positive and
threct relief to a part of the country on which it peculiarly
Freaks and
hop duty, which sufi'ers severely from the present distrems. The
too, is so local and limited in its le
ray is felt with increased force. 01wwwdwor that its wee-
The dudes on printed cottons' are
velY heavy, press
thereof which is tion most unequally, and heldy a revenue the collet
extremely expensive. Ireland is not affected by
--they press solely on hngland—and this consideration is of
much importance, seeing that Ireland is exempt from 12,000,000-
ttltetthieee duties
on which
cottons
press 'upon lea' lands Then, besidesthis, the
cumbrous machinery of die ssirex and
ievelse, by "widmeth el die osthe oScirl
s'withy halwihkthle;
,heir collection is *sally attended. 'The average Maoist of this

duty is about 2,000,000/. of which 1,500,000/. or 1,600,000!. is have had it oßen recur, and it at this time was similar in its cheese-
annually paid back on exportation. Thus the whole of these cum. ter, and might be traced to the same causes as it might et 1816,1821,
brous and troublesome operations are gone through for the sake of 1822, 1828, or 1829. This, he confessed, he could not but look upen
400,0001. for that is the average amount received by the Exche. as a bad type of the disease—its frequent recurrence was really appal-
quer out of the 2,000,0001. levied. I know that there are those in ling ; for the State, like to the individual, was eirp is:it to more vi-
tit is house, as there are out ale who have no very ftiendly feeling gorous attacks when more and more disabled for ix:sting then:. He
towards the cotton trade, and who regard it as a monstrous evil, attributed great pert of the evils which had ensued to the alters-
pteying upon the vitals of the nation. But the giant system has dons that had been made in the currency, and he thought
been created, and if not supported in full health and vigour, will that it would have been wiser to have altered the standard, or to have
consume the resources of the State, and, perhaps, ultimately bring it given a longer time for the withdrawal of the small notes. One cause,
to the brink of ruin. As it stands at present, however, it is the staple too, of the existing distress was unquestionably to be attributed to
article of our manufactures, diffusing wealth among all clauses; our the improvement in machinery. The noble duke at the head of the
duty therefore is, not to allow the continuance of any tax which in. government had before stated so, and he (Lord R.) believed he
tetferes with its prosperity, especially when that tax is so unproduc- was correct. It threw men out of employment and that tended to
tive in amount and so expensive in collection. There is another tax Increase the redundancy of the population. The influx of the Irish
to which 1 shall now advert—l mean the tax upon leather.—. labourers, who could work at so much under the wages expected,
Certainly that tax is not very large in amount as compared with and indeed necessary, for the English, especially in the southern
the value of the article taxed—it is only three-halfpenee counties, was another cause of distress, as was also the payment of
a pound upon the leather, while the value of that leather is netabove wages out of the poor.rates, and the systein of fixing the amount of
15s. or 16s. a pound. ut the nature of the trade causes great in- that payment according to the number of the family of the
convenience to arise from this impost. •No one can form any idea labourer. The unequal distribution of wealth was also a fruit.
of the inconveniences thus arising who does not make himself prac. ful source of distress, and if any plan could be adopted to diffuse it
tically acquainted with the details. He who is a tanner cannot more generally, it would be a great advantage. The next point to
become a currier— he must carry on his business in a particular which Its would refer was that upon which the noble viscount had
way. lie must keep his hides a certain time in the vat—so long, so ably expatiated—he meant that of taxation—and no doubt but
and no longer—he must try no experiment—he must disregard all the country would experience considerable relief from the projected
the discoveries of modern science—chemistry becomes of no value to remission of taxes. He was of opinion with ministers, that th.: had
him. He must go on in the same beaten routine.—improvement is crops of the last two years had caused a great deal of the distress
shut out from his trade, and endless vexations imposed upon it under which the agriculturists laboured. It would be vanity in him
for the sake of a paltry tax, from which the revenue de. to propose any measure of relief, but at the same time it was the
rives but little advantage. But repeal it, and you serve every class duty of every member of parliament to suggest any thing that may
of the community as consumers ; you relieve the agricultural class appear likely to alleviate the existing distress. The noble lord
in particular, as producers of the article taxed. Leather, hops, and next alluded to the currency ; he thought it would be of ail.
printed cottons would be somewhat upwards of a million. The re- vantage to make silver a legal tender, and that it would in a great
moral of the tax on sea.borne coals (which we understood the noble measure relieve the existing pressure. The next point he wished
lord to fix at 600,000!.) would also be a great public benefit. I to call the attention of government to, was the subject of the poor
should also recommend a modification of the duties on beer, so as to laws ; he thought they might be much improved, and It they were
give encouragement to the production and consumption of strong beer. extended to Ireland, they would have the effect of preventing so
The effect of the present system is to render the operations of the ex. many Irish labourers coming over to this country. Nothing, how.
else, as respects beer, extremely complicated, and mat inconveniently ever, would relieve the country but retrenchment ; and he was
to divide the business of brewing. Thus the man who brews strong happy to say, that he had the greatest reliance on the noble duke at
beer cannot brew intermediate ale or small beer ; and here, as the head of the government, that all retrenchment in every depot-
everywhere else, comes in the whole cumbrous and objectionable anent that was practicable would be carrried into effect. He should
machinery of oaths and penalties. The modification that I wish to see many taxes that now pressed heavily upon the Indus.
should recommend would have the effeet of increasing the con. trious classes of the community done away with, and a property-tax
gumption of malt, and affording relief to the agricultural classes. instituted in lieu of them. This would much relieve the burdens
In the particular cases, then, my Lords, to which I have adverted, of the state, as it would affect the incomes of absentees, who now i
I would say that relief can be afforded to the amount of 1,700,0001. spent many millions a year out of the country, and contributed no.l
and as far as that sum goes, it would be a substantial and beneficial' thing towards the public expenditure. He was ashamed to detain
relief, and might be safely ventured on. I deplore, as deeply as the house, or he would refer to the corn bleat many attributed
any man, the public distress—but the conviction of the prevalence a great deal of the distress to the existenceof these laws He
of that distress does not lead me to entertain those gloomy, wise- could only say that he, for one, was ready at any time, if he could
rable, and hopeless views which the noble lord endeavoured to be convinced that such was the case, to lower the scale of duty—
impress upon the house. 1 doubt the prudence of telling the (Hear.) He thought it necessary for their lordships to institute the
people that their condition is hopeless—l doubt the pro. most minute inquiry into the state of the country ; but not in the
dens of rooting out from their minds all confidence in the manner reposed by the noble lord's (Stanhope's) tr.otion. The
legislature. When in danger I should candidly confess the manner of making the inquiry proposed by the noble lord, be eon.
amount of it ; but I think there is equal folly and unfair. sidered most inexpedient, and unlikely to answer any beneficial
ness in telling them, on the present occasion, that their purpose. He felt, therefore, bound to oppose the motion. At the
case is hopeless. All that the noble lord recommends is inquiry, same time he wished to state that he should vote for an inquiry upon
and he would have us believe that there exists in the people a dials°. &different plan.
sition to treat with contempt the deliberations of the legislature, Lord ELDON next addressed the House, but in so low a tone
and to place confidence neither in its wisdom nor good intentions. voice as to be for a time inaudible below the Bar; when we
In that course I cannot bring myself to concur with him. There is catch his Lordship's observations, he was regretting that be new
one other point to which 1 have not yet adverted—l mean the ex- obliged to be absent from the House on the first day of the ileseiset,'
=proceedings with respect to the charter of the East India for, had he been present, he must have taken the liberty of contra.
pony. I am the furthest in the would from wishing to anti- dieting what fell from the noble Duke respecting the distress of
cipate the opinion of parliament upon this great question, but the country being partial (hear) ; he was of opinion it was
it cannot be settled any how without great advantage to the public; general. The noble Duke had said that the cause of distress was
but in saying this, I say nothing as to the manner in which it tusy not under legislative controul--it was the badness of the seasons ;
be settled. Again, the present condition of Ireland is such as that was the only cause he had seen assigned for it. Now he
entitles us to hope that we shall get through our present (Lord E.) was astonished that no other cause could be discovered
difficulties with more ease than through any former crisis of for distress of such a nature that was enough to break the hearts
a similar description. There must be great present relief, and of every Englishman.—(Hear.) If the country was then in
peat ultimate good from the state of Ireland. Formerly, when such a wretched state, was it not the bounden duty of Parliament
looking to that country, we saw nothing but clouds and tern- to take some measures to alleviate the evil ? The country would
pests, but now the sun of liberty has arisen, and the gloom be most thankful for an enquiry, and it ought to take place.
of tanner years has passed away--as in the natural The people had been most quiet under their distress, and he
summer the evil influence
.of the atmosphere may retard the hoped to God they would continue to manifest such a disposition.—
general progress of the season, so have centuries of bad go. (hear.) but surely k was the duty of their lordships to show a
vernment kept back the advancement of Ireland • but the tre- willingness to afford every possible relief. The house was bound,
mendous barrier which impeded her progress has been removed, as be before said, to make every inquiry. He thought the House
and that country—no longer unhappy Ireland is in a fair way of Lords bad every facility of inquiry, and ought to agree to the
to establish her own prosperity, instead of being a clog upon the motion of the noble lord. It was no satisfactionto the people
operations of government, and the improvement of the empire at to be told that their suite:begs arose from causes not under legit-
large. In the condition in which Ireland at present stands, we soon halve controul. The cause ought to be inquired into, and, if
expect to see her the scat of industry and the depositary of capital. possible, a remedy ought to be found.—(hear, bear.) From what
II hen I state that the contribution of Ireland to the taxes of the had been said on the other side of the house, he took it foe granted
country is only 3,800,0001. I think it will be seen that there is much that parliament was to make no inquiry ; but he could tell noble
room for advance; and when I call your lordships' attention to the lords that the constitution, compelled them to make inquiry (hear,
change which has taken place in its condition, you will perceive that hear, hear,) and no noble lord on his (Lord Eldon's) side would say
there is every prospect of improvement. oking, then, upon this otherwise. The noble viscount who spoke second in that night's
subject as I do, I feel bound to oppose the motion of the noble earl, debate had suggested many measures that, if carried into effect, he
in the full confidence that his majesty's government will apply their had no doubt would greatly relieve the country (hear, hear.) But
best energies to remove the existing evils. whilst ministers say it is nothing but the seasons that cause this
The Duke of RICHMOND said that it appeared to be the opi- distress, and the bench of Bishops agree and affirm that is the only
nion of his Majesty's Ministers, both from the speech from the cause' he would ask their lordships what was, or what could, paella-
throne, and their subsequent statements in Parliament, that the mentdo ? (hear, hear.) The operative, manufacturer, artisan, and
distress under which the country was now suffering was partial. agriculturist, must continue under their unparalleled distress (hear,
He, however, was convinced that it was far more general now than hear.) lie would not do the noble lead who spoke last the Injustice
it was at the panic of 1025 ; and he was equally convinced that it to suppose that he was adverse to an inquiry.
in a very great measure resulted from excessive taxation. What. Lord ROSEBERRY said, I never objected to inquiry—all that
ever, therefore, might be the disposition of Government to deny ' I objected to was the form proposed by the noble lord's motion. I
the existence of general distress, he would fearlessly assert, that would agree to any other mode of inquiry which I considered pmts
unless they joined to inquire and find out its causes and its re. ticable.
medics, it would not, it could not pass away. It had been Lord ELDON continued—The noble lotd objects then to the
by many persons attributed to the high rent of land. form of inquiry proposed by the motion. Now, it would be very
Ile did not believe that that was the cause for it was well kind of him to suggest to the house any other mode that he might
known that those rents had, from time to time, been lowered ; but think practicable—(hear.) One noble lord who had spoken in the
if it was so, the country gentlemen of England would, he was quite debate, had pointed out 15 ways of practical relief, and it was the
wound, most charitably make the sacrifice—that they would never duty of the house to inquire into every one of them, and without it
relinquish the high and honourable character they had so long and the country never would be satisfied. Every information ought to be
so deservedly enjoyed. The misery and wretchedness of the ag- obtained, and all the causes and remedies examined into in a
ricultural labourers were without parallel in the history of this constitutional way. He (Lord Eldon) did not know whether a
country. He trusted that he should not be supposed desirous redundant population, like the seasons,' was one of the causes
of exciting feelings out of doors • but he must say, that such a which Ministers alluded to when they said the distress was
state of things could not—aye, and he would, as a Peer of Pat- not under legislative controul—(laughter.) There had been
Lament, add, that such a state of things ought not to eon. many causes assigned, which he must fairly own he did not under.
tinue. In the part of the country with which he was mote stand. He could notforget his ditty as a member of the legislature,
particularly connected, able-bodied men were compelled to work and that duty was to inquire into the state of the country, and the
on the high roads at 4d. and even 3d. per day, and out of that country had a right to know the opinion of parliament;—be should
miserable pittance they had to pay for the tools they employed. He therefore vote for the motion. He did not wish to allude to the
would ask if noble lords were prepared to say that such things ought measures of last session ; after the best consideration that be had
to go on ? It was, he contended, the paramount duty of parliament given to one important subject, be felt bound to oppose it, as he was
to inquire into the cause of this increased and increasing distress. fateful of the consequences—that opinion still remained, for he was
The people of England hads_a_a2ht to demand it. Who had yet apprehensive it would be attended with danger. He did think
not read in the daily paper who, reading, had not felt however, that if the distress of the country could not be altogether
the bitter degradation to which the British peasant was re- removed, it might be alleviated, and most sincerely trusted a ma.
duced ? In the county of which the noble duke at the head of jority of their lordships would not say to the country, there shall be
his Majesty's Government was Lord Lieutenant, the accounts no inquiry, which would be the case if the motion was lost. He
of the distress of the agriculturist were most appalling—nor should eve it his support.
was the state of the manufacturing interests better (hear, bear.) The Earl of ROSEBERRY explained.
He would read some extracts which he had selected from the The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that before he replied to
vast mass of misery that had been published, and he would ask the speech of the noble earl who spoke last, be should make a
any one but the hangers-on of Downing-street, what emel t. few observations upon what had fallen from the noble lord and the
sion must be formed. [The noble Duke here read several extracts noble duke on the other side of the house. The noble lord had
from the newspapers published within the last few months from said that his motion was not directed pe Bt'
Manchester ISinningharn, Rochdale, and other manufacturing use, and yet he had contrived to in uce Matter has
districts, and' inquired whether these facts were not sufficient to his speech. In the saute way the noble duke, who had no caws
warrant a call for inquiry. At Blackburn numbers of indlealuals to indulge say feeling of hostility towards him, bad contrived ss
existed upon la nil. a week. They were told that our exports were being out an allusion to what had pared In a county with whist.
increasing, and that was addaced m a convincing proof of the re. he (the Duke of Wellington) was connected, forgetting at the
turning prosperity of the country. It was, however, very easy to same time that similar occurrence had happened 01 other war
export a great deal, and get no profit, and that he was convinced ties, and even in that county with which that noble duke was
would now be found to be the case. In fact, the state of the ma.
reduced
nufacturing population was, that one part of them was to connected himself. It was the duty of all to do what could be
done for the alleviation of the distress. There was no use in giving
pauperism with work, and the other for want of work. He expression to personal accusations. All they had to do, was to
knew, and should ever most anxiously inculcate the Christian exert their capacities to the utmost for a remedy, and by inquiry.
and moral duty of evay man, to the very last, to exert his every (Hear)—and application, to devise the best means of relief. The
power to maintain his family. He would never encourage any man noble earl had adverted to the existing distress of the agricultoill
against his master, but he would yet say we ought to institute an in. interest as deplorably extensive, and the noble duke who follownil,
quiry into the cause that had conduced to the miseries And privations bim bad similarly described the condition of that clam of tee egffie
end the want of employment that had reduced the once free and bin" amity. In reply to this he could only say, that no person the
peasantry of England to a worse condition than the slave. The IBMs ;more confident than himself that the agriculturists were at pima
duke here quoted at some length the charge, delivered by oos if thi lehouring under depression, and he had not disputed the loactaliii
right reverend bishops to the clergy of his diocese, and remarked, it was stated by those noble lords at the opening of Parliament. Aft
that the canker.worm, as that venerable divine had stated, had hi.. the existence of that distress he did not profess to entertain any dout
deed eaten its way into the vitals of our national prosperity, and whatever; but when they called fur a Committee of inquiry, In dr.
that it must be ejected before any rational hope of relief could be posed it as inexpedient sod outrage to the usual practice oldie Maps.
enterta:ned. Ministers complained, that the distress that existed What remedy had the noble earl itt contemplation when be as.
hail been greatly exaggerated, and that those who attended county mended a committee of inquiry? And unless some pried& taxi-
' meetings were but too much disposed to make the moat of ft.— sure of relief could be suggested, it was manifest that such a Pm.
One of the inset upright statesmen that had ever adorned that mince could never be productive Of benefit or adviduage. N •
house—he meant the late Lord Liverpool—had often said that if and Ineffectual it must unavoidably prove, if the prepaid=
those who petitioned were in error, yet every attention ought to be new plan of relief or project hitherto unheard-of to recommit}
paid to their petitions, and he much hoped that thole whit professed Did be wish to have a repeal 'of the corn-law ? If such were ids
to look up to Lord Liverpool's example would not neglect to follow rise' he would at twee meet it with unqualified oppostekie
it in this instance. All he would ask was a full and free enquiry; be system worked well, and the event abundantly justified his
sad that be would press notwithstanding the array that might ar. anticipations, for the agriculturist received fair value for his la.
range themselves around the ministers. A devastating epidemic boor, while at the same time the importation was greater than it bed
raged throughout the country its progress was marked with deso. been before. Last year the increased importation amounted to
tat ion and dismay. The pedplc now petitioned for what they had a 5,000,000 of quartets, half of which was from Ireland ; end the re.
right to demand, and he did trust that parliament would not be muneradoo of the agriculturlit was not lower sow them it wee &-
prorogued without some effort being made, to show that they were merly. Then, as to the other branches of agriculture, the present
desirous to do something to alleviate the distress of their fellow. prices of meet, timber, ihd so forth, were equal to these of the
subjects. dram' time*, *nu. the farmer was at the height.of latarssipsrlsy.
The Earl of ROSEBERY said, that feeling as he did upon this (Cries of " rio, DO," from the opposition.") The aseerthros he mew
occasion, that every individual wee called upon to do his best, he I advaddsd might be disputed; but he was prepared t• prove shelf
was induced to trouble their lordship* with a few observations. •He egeosaey, foe they were Ammo! •• substantial tocusterievertilsie
could not .but acknowledge that great distress existed in the cooing, facts. (Ow, hear.) 'Z'be next subject to width be should ad.
bat tkatWas obtew'eient. ' Stole the tetaiiitatiots of the war, ye 'mit wits' sate df thle resehtlistior 4714 toothy of Mass.

I

LI

I

factures in the country, it was admitted, Was greater now than it I. sd
aver been at any period hitherto. No dads whateverexisted that
this result had been produced by the employment of steam, and the
application of machinery. There was likewise a very general con.-
petition with our manufacturers throughout the neighbouring B.a.
tient on the continent,-a circumstance which could not fall nt
=ce its proportionate effect on the state of our operativos
These were assuredly main causes of the distress which had
been animadverted on so severely, as if attributable teeny mean:tr.
Air which Government could be pronounced answerable. The
noble lord was certainly not very happy in the topics which he h 3 I
selected for fastening censure on the administration. In th
Royal speech at the opening of the session, His Illaiesty had re•
ascribed the distress of the manufacturing and • agricultur.a
ince to the influence of the weather exclusively,as had tem Tinos.
tifildrly assumed, but merely expressed a hope that "due weight
would be assigned to the effect of unfavourable beiSo,lo, and t..
the operation of other causes beyond the teach of legislative r.
seedy or control." That speech also expressed his Majeit) •
conviction, " that no pressure of temporary difficulty would a
dice parliament to relax the determination which they had =-
teem], manifested to maintain Inviolate the public credit, and
thus to uphold the high character and permanent welfare of th...
country." Such was the recommendation from the throne whic:
had been referred to by his noble friend, who, no doubt, w.s
far from wishing to injure the credit of the country, but who al,
patently laboured under a mistake on the subject of Its resource..
This conclusion he thought himself justified iu drawing fraai
the very nature of the noble lord's suggestions, which it would be
absolutely impossible to accede to without Injuring the credit of the
country. To take a just view of our present condition, it was ne-
cessary to call to mind the state of England at the end of the con-
tinental war. Europe bad been the arena of contending armies for
a space of thirty years ; kingdom after kingdom was covered with
a filmy forces, and nothing at the time could be thought of but
gentles and the means of supplying them. When peace, however,
after so long an interval, ensued. the inhabitants of all these sta'es
naturally and simultaneously directed their energies and attention to
the refinements of civilized society, and manufactures were
universally fabricated. The inevitable consequence proved to
be a fall in their prices. To enable the house to judge generally of
the proportion between present prices, and those which existed at the
beginning of the peace, he would read a few entries of items made
at the respective periods. In 1814. cotton in England was sold at the
rate of 2s. 2d. and, including the duty, at 2s. 41; in 1817, it might
be had at Is. Bd. and in 1829 at lid. thus Fogies ively decreasing
down to the present times. Again, silk in 1814 was at the rate of
H. 4s. and, including the duty, at U. 19s. while, in 1829, it svx*
fallen to Bs. 10d. and, including the duty, to 8.. lid. Spanish
sheep's wool, an article very common in this coun ry, during 1613
was Is. 2,1. and, includies the duty, Bs. 3d. but in 1829, se find
it at 2s. 3d. and, including the duty, at 2s. 4d. This wag obviously
beyond the controul of Parliament, and not to be ntiedied by any
provisions of the legislature, proceeding as it did, from causes will.
out the sphere of parliamentary enactments. Then the price of tit
timber in 1814, was 3/. 4s. IW. and duty inclusive, 10!. as. ;
in 1829, it only amounted to 21. 4.. and, duty inclusive, to 4/. 191.
From those few items their lordships might infer the general depre-
ciation in the price of all such articles since tire peace. In tact,
he himself bad no doubt but manufactunrs, speaking generally,
made at the end of the war five times the amount which they
at present, owing to the natural effects of foreign competition, steam,
and machinery. Their profit now, lie firmly believed, was la.
duced lower than the price of the raw material before To go far-
ther :-in 1814 the price of cotton yarn was 4s. 45d. and in 102 a
it was ls. lied, manufactured cotton goods were then at Is. 5(1.-
duty inclusive, Is. Bd. while now they were 65d.-duty inclusive.
85d. Irish linen was Is. 7d. in 1814, and but one shilling and three-
farthings in 1829. Woollen cloths had likewise sustained a simi-
lar reduction. There was no competition in cotton, no competition
in the potteries, no competition in the iron ware, yet all these
btanches of trade were reduced in proportion. Both cause and
effect in cases like these were, and would always remain, beyond
the reach of the control of Parliameht, however well inclined to
apply a remedy. He defied the noble lords opposite, with all their
powers, to do any thing whatever on the subject which would he
at once politic and satisfactory,--oxpedient, and efficacious. Was
it fitting, then, he would ask, that Parliament should attempt to
interfere, when it was utterly impossible to do good ? (Heim.)
He was indeed much concerned to hear of the distress which existed
amongst his fellow-subjects, but would feel glad if. rabic
lords who agitated the question would only discover in their
=ty some judicious means of relief. They proposed a com-
et the whole house, but it was sufficiently easy to make
Huss a saggestion. That was doing nothing, for it led to no re-'
rawly whatever. The noble mover would simply recommend them
p into a committee, but to what end would they follow lass
Mosel if he could lead them no farther P And not one step far.
the had he gone. In the course of the speech which had been de-
livered by the noble viscount, he had adverted to two or three
points which he felt it necessary to notice. One of those points
related to the batik charter, which he seemed desirous to
restrict by a further extension of the act of 1826. On
further consideration, this advice, he was sure, would be
retracted, for the measure proposed was unquestionably beyond the
control of parliament. It was not any longer legitimately in their
power to adopt such a suggestion, interference being impracticable,
consistently with a due regard foe vested tights. They could not
Interfere without a breach of the Bank charter, unless the consent of
those whose interests such legislation would effect could be ob.
tained. Another of the points alluded to touched upon a repeal of
the taxes. He was sure that no one would rejoice more sincerely
than himself if to comply with the noble lord's recommendation
were really possible. But every kind of economy should be ef-
fected without injury to the enctive maintenance of our establish-
ments. It was also suggested that tars[ might be obtained
if government made a prudent application of the 3,000,000/. of
surplus which had been saved. la reffirelng le this he bad no in.
tendon to enter for a moment into the diseunion of a subject al-
ready amply debated in the House of Commas. But the noble
viscount had committed a mistake is epeatiagef our incemiesodint-
penditure during the last year, and the nati VEa, esnelu-
sips. There was a difference in the of between
them, but his majesty's spinals= adverted to the Ist %mien
the estimates of 1829 and those it HMS, end net to the difference
between the estimates and expenditure if Mk as the • noble
viscount appeased to infer. The diilleseee had peemedied ibenothe
duty en ask having been 900,000/. late than in the year.
what it was unusually great, and a deficiency of ring
=mfa ether departments of the reveaue. Anoka atheake of
ail cheeses was to be ascribed to his haring saw& out the
receipt boos the Bank while he neglected to aisalue the matte
rebores the other side, which would leave sheds= wiltseessin.
lag ea It stood. The earplus was greatly owbaled44 7AM,
for is reality the surplus would net miss= Ie mere than
1,1100,61111 at the utmost. It was their duty, he esedimei, and also
their iodination, to cony saving as far as they psoldeally could,
but oaring, it should be remembered, wait set always clear
gain to the public. (Hear, hear, hear.) No asimeehmseit what.
ever had been introduced, except where it vas found that in
practical operation it would do no injury to the esonny. Whir.
ever an ogee happened to become vacant, it was always the first ob-
ject to assidm whether business could go on without it in future. 1 e
it was ascertained that it could not, their next considered= was.
hew it Gould be jadiebusly remodelled and revised, so as to be squally
ssevieurble at kis expense. The pensions of the army and navy,
es the same principle, were diminished so for as was possible without
kabbspig es equity and justice. &telt was the system which ti e
posseMpverstuent adopted, and they intsedual missal econany
whatever is amid at any time be effected an as to leave the public
service elllmatt and unimpaired. As so the ether proposals of the
=hie eariarre, he could amine him, had been made without
any odibet...he meant that relating to a sibs currency. (Hew.)
silver and pia now circulated on the seam principle whit* *pleat=
betant'ini. Silver then was a legal tender in tale for only fol, but
world diculate to any ulterior amount by weight. It was at pre.
mat a legal tender in tale, only up to 40s. bet might circulate by
weight mink's to any amount beyond it. The noble lord, how.
ever.lind them who thought with him, would have oilier made'a
legal reader to a still higher amount. But be had given much at.
tendon and consideration to the subject, and wow felt convitund
that silver to •a higher amount would ilwaye sees tarots to
the bask, as it had done formerly when the laquilleftt was
tried, and could never in that ease be forced loft thistles.
The entire matter had been lung made the
_said* of eirrorst
deliberation, and the noble lord 'bight rest satielled that Wuhan
felt as disposition to neglect it. Another point kstradootd bore
upon the shipping interest, which was likewise demelhed • be in
distress, He Could sincerely declare to their Ittithipe that no ens
felt mere anxious to encourage the shipping iheseme 'than he were.
He had always been deeply impressed with • Nem Si the
portanee of the British shipping as a wins of security and ea
object of national pride, while at the same Cote it had so vat
• share w ministering to the logurms, necessaries sad sour its
of society. (Hen.) Nor solid soy penis• eatruated with a
'pars Mike =Weigand= of this country be wade, of hie high
Aim, or at Air lie diesksege if his .duty who did not enter a
*Oar wetness. The at/eying labs= at proem be coorei%e4l .o
be is fu l employincnt, or Oen suirelnatasekbut the profits of ship
owners, for eadess sultriest rastenr, were net saw m base as they
W been. Their peollotwere =saran& tweedy. by she expensw s
Jet the ship, the peoaridens supplied, and •theceeriwA details con-
nected with their bcalisses, .bst they hiewise in a great
441iitee of the wages- of the pope who wese;oisipieged. • Bearing
ens in mind, they might in some mom= maga= for existing
depression *hen it was known that •00111111 SIM reetived-W. p.r
enolgh, whereas they bad got but Os. r feemerelsne,. The a elle
lord Oberrvest that the humiliator of foreign ship. by the re.
'dignity i7stenv *as unfavourabie,to the in'erests of our native
ship.orrners."Bet once the yam 11114' these existed the -sump t
nbeesitfty fur *raking the transport of oar 1001611 a-. cheer

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' S. k,: if we hoped to 11.1 d out with success against the in.
yat• ins Competition on every side around us ; and this could not
,1 `" • ejected without an adherence to the reciprocity system. Among
;c.,,,
Metyke of accusation, :the noble lord had arraigned him for
e:A:ion on the first day of the session, that the distress of
the country was not of that magnitude which: some persons had
-.quoted. That noble lord was quite at liberty to indulge in such
e.vertives, if it pleased him to do so; but if he supposed that
-be the Duke of Wellington) -did not feel for the distresses of the
n;:ople. he was utterly mistaken, as he could sincerely aver that he
i:Ad as strong sympathies on the subject as any noble member of that
:louse. But he was resolved to tell plainly and honestly what he
I,teught, quite regardless of the odium he should incur from those
~-hose prejudices his candour and sincerity might offend—(Hear.)
th .:as there to speak the truth, and not to flatter the predi.
I:c:ions and prepossessions of any man whomsoever. In speaking
lite truth, he would utter it only in the language that truth
nee): cost naturally suggested. But admitting that distressexisted
in 1,..,17 pasts of the country, be could not agree with those noble
lords who stated that It was so general. He had just alluded to the
difference in the amount of the malt duties in 1829, as compared
with the preceding year; but he would beg of noble lords to look
et the produce of other articles of consumption. Let them look at
the hiereale of buildings, not merely in London, but in the prin.
cipal towns and villages throughout the country, and he thought they
would show that the people were making a progress to something
like prosperity. Let their lordships also look at the state of the say.
;rigs banks throughout the country. A measure had some time
hack been adopted to prevent the investment of money in those
banks beyond a certain amount for each person, in order that
the parties not entitled to it should not derive the advantage which
was intended for the poorer classes. Large sums were drawn out of
those banks soon after ; but they soon came back again, and where
frolll ? Why, from the great mass of the lower classes; and this
he must consider, not as a proof of that general distress which some
noble lords spoke of. Their lordships ought likewise not to omit
Irons their consideration the increased traffic carried on on the rail-
roads and canals in the country. He knew it wet said that
Ministers wished to avail themselves of this increase as a proof of
the prosperous state of the countey. lie would not rely upon that
of Itself, but in looking at the general state of the country, he could
teat omit from his consideration, that within the last ten years
Oae traffic on those railways and canals was nearlydoubled. As to
v.hat had been said of increased capital in the country without in.
Teased currency, he should wish to know whether there might not
be increased industry without reference to the question of currency ?
Taking the whole state of the country into consideration, he would
ask whether there was not an improvement as compared with former
years. As to the motion before the house, he would observe that he
had no objection to any motion foe any documents which might tend
to show the actual condition of any particular branch of industry or i
any class ; but any motion of that kind ought not to be for the pur.;
pose of making an attack on the government, or any individual of
ir, but for the general benefit of the country. ,
The Earl of ELDON and Viscount Goon tico severally ex.
plait:ed.
The Duke of RICHMOND had not intended any allusion per.
total to the noble duke when be mentioned what occurred in the
county of which he was Lord Lieutenant. His object was to re-
move a practice which was illegal, and to relieve the country from
what he considered a disgrace.—that of employing the poor to drag
waggons.
The Marquis of SALISBURY felt satisfied that if his noble re.
latien was convinced of the distressed state of the country as much as
other noble lords were, he would be willing to sacrifice his most fa.
vottrite measure in order to afford it relief. This distress was felt
in every part and by almost every class, particularly the agricultural
classes, thousands of whom were in the lowest state. A general in-
quiry at the bar of that house as to the state of the country, he
thou ght would do more harm than good. He would prefer an in.
qviry by a select committee, and if that should fail of coming at the
cause of the distress, then would be the time for an inquiry by the
whole house.
The Earl of RADNOR said the noble duke (Wellington) had
taken up the observations of the noble earl who made the motion,
and the noble duke by whom it was supported, in a manner which
was most uncalled for. It was another proof that those who lost
temper had a bad cause. No speech could be more in favour of
inquiry, than that of the noble duke, A. no had even dropped the
word inquiry himself while he was res'.sting it. Every noble lord
would, no doubt, make inquiry for himself, and satisfy himself of
the state of the people in his own neighbourhood; but they were
then called on to inquire, as peers of parliament, In their legis-
lative capacity. The first lord of the treasury had said he was
in doubt whether distress was general or not ; surely he ought
to agree to inquiry for his own information, and to enable
him to discharge with effect the duties of his high office. He
says that timber is not fallen—that meat is not fallen ; but those
who had informed themselves on the subject knew that timber had
y fallen, and that meat was fallen all over the country.
greatly fallen,
speech said there was distress in some places; the
noble duke said we were in a state of improvement ; surely tnqab7
was'necessary, If it were only to enlighten ministers. The noble
viscount's (Ooderich's) speech was also, he thought, in favour of
Jr-gutty, and he was astonished the noble viscount should not vote
for it. On the first day of the session he wild, to propose a remedy
for the distress was all a delusion ; now he has many projects. He
was surprised he had not thought of some of them when in office,
as some of the taxes he now proposes to take off should have been
then taken off.—(hear.) He could not, however, think the noble
viscount any very good authority.—He said of himself that he never
prophesied iIL But it unfortunately happened that the good he
predicted was not fulfilled. The noble earl here read an extract
front Lord Goderich's speech on the budget in 1824, in which he
confidently predicted the continued prosperity of the country. But
the solid basis of all this prosperity proved to be those small notes,
which in nine months after the noble viscount called " filthy rags."
Lord GODERICH said, he had never celled small notes filthy
rags, though he had seen it imputed to him in the newspapers. •
Earl RADNOR proceeded. Whatever the noble viscount called
the small notes, they were then the foundation of his prosperity;
and be very soon after took measures to get rid of them of them as
a mischief to the country. He did not doubt that before the end of
the session, a Committee of Inquiry would be proposed by the noble
duke and his colllesguea. He could bear witness to the distress of
the county in which he lives, and acts u s magistrate • there theca.
lamity that presses on the people is not to be described, and was pro.
ducing a state of acrimonious feeling that was fast dissolving the
bonds of society. The farmers formerly kept their men all the year
round—they now only keep them for the job, and then they are
thrown on the parish ; the man feels hurt at this, and re
the farmer and those above him as his enemies.—(Hear, garde
)
Tice feeling of acrimony that was generated was even more alarming
than the pecuniary distress, and this feeling would go on Increasing
till the remedy was applied (hear, bear.) The original sin from
which all our evils flowed was tampering with the currency. He
hoped much good might be done by inquiry, and should support
the motion (hear, hear.)
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, if he could persuade
himself that, by agreeing to the motion before the house, the coon-
try could be enlightened on the state of difficulty into which we had
fallen, he should give a cordial vote for its adoption. Feeling the
importance and utility of the function of inquiry by the house, he
could not bring himself to think that an inquiry at the bar could be
productive of good, either to the public or to the house. He had
seen an Eastern tale called the "Sea of Controversial Waves," and
he was confident it would be a proper title for an inquiry Mille bar
of the hotme. lie thought an inquiry respecting the state of the
labouring classes of the people was highly desirable, and no per-
manent prosperity could be attained till that, which was now the
rotten baste of the state, was made its sound foundatiati--(hear.)
TO his mind there was but one remedy—reduction of trample and
—•`,1116 at

taxation. The noble duke had mentioned many causes a distress ;
when be mentioned the great reduction in the price of cotton—the
raw material of the greatest manufacture could not, by any possible
combination of circumstances, become a cause of distress, or be con-
sidered in any other light than as arising from the improvement of
machinery, which was one of those fortunate circumstances that en-
abled us to keep faith with the public creditor, and maintain our
station in the world.
The Duke of WELLINGTON explained, that the low rice of
die raw material enabled the manufacturer to sell his goods at a less
rice.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE resumed. He entertained the
greatest respect for the Earl of Liverpool, bat he had differed with
him on the standard of value, and was still of opinion that it would
he advantageous to have a common standard of value throughout the
world, and what he considered that silver was the ancient standard
of this country, he thought we ought to have preferred it in return-
ing to a metallic currency. The noble duke had said that up to
1797 silver was a legal tender up to 241. but the fact was silver. was
a legal sender to any amount.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said by weight.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN proceeded. By weight was every
thing. The ream it was limited to 2bl. in coin was, that the coin
alight be worn. But silver by weight was the legal standard of the
country, and he thought it perfectly
.open to parliament to refer to
it still. He bad hardly ever seen an Instance in which a tax if*
been reduced in which it had not produced increased revenue. He
was adman ofa Committee on Foreign Trade. anti called before
it several witnesses, wine-merchants, who all give eery loge-
ohms 'routine why reducing the duty on French wines would
tend .to increase its 'consumption (hear, hear.) His aside friend,
two years' after, had the good sense to reduce that duty, and
the effect was, that more Amu double the quantity paid duty,
sad thr revenue was iniPoved (hear, hear,baw). If that was
the effect of a reduction of duty on the luxury of the higher
class, what must be the 'effect of reducing taxation on the
luxuries of the people ? * He would also, on principles of attends*
calculation, meet the taxes that.impede the exercise of industry.

lie had not the ]cast hesitation in saying, that the best sinking fund
for the fundholder was the productive industry of the country.—
With these views he would support inquiries through a select com-
mittee, but could not expect auy benefit from an inquiry at the
bar, and was reluctantly compelled to give his negative to the
question.
Lord KING said, he did not wish to embarrass his Majesty's
ministers, but thought some inquiry necessary, though he could not
support the mode of inquiry proposed by the noble earl. If no in.
quiry took place, and no remedy for the distress was provided, we
must go on from bad to worse, and our distress must increase.—
There might be some exaggerations in the descriptions of dis-
tress. but no one could deny it. At Barnsley, he was told, there
was but twenty-pence a week for the head of a family—(Hear,
hear.) Such a state of the people must re-act on all rents.
The low rate of wages was the cause of the fall in the prices of
agricultural produce. Meat had fallen because the people could
not afford to eat it. The price of goods manufactured in England
might be increased, by taking for them, from the Continent of
Europe, what they had to give in exchange. (Hear hear.)—
By this exchange, prices would be raised and poor rates dminished.
If they could not do all that the country desires, they should not be
duped by the East India Company, or the Bank Company, who had
monopolized too long. In 1802, he raised his voice in that house
against the Bank Restriction Act. In 1811, when the noble lord
(Bexley) bad a strange resolution passed in another place, that
paper and gold were of equal value, he was determined to put
that declaration to the test, but a bill passed to prevent him.—
Reduction was absolutely necessary—some had taken place,
but it was all forced on the government by necessity. The falling
off of revenue now compelled reduction, otherwise he thought we
should not have it. He thought some inquiry absolutely necessery,
but could not agree to the noble earl's motion, and should move an
amendment. From 1782 to 1792, he thought, were the ten years of
greatest prosperity the country ever enjoyed ; the list 1l years
were the most feverish under which it ever suffered, which he, in a
great degree, attributed to corn in the former period being admitted
at a nominal duty, and for the latter excluded by a high duty.
It was unnecessary to do more than allude to the present state of
the trade in that article. He did not consider a high price of corn
to be consistent with a state of prosperity, or an advantageous con.
dition of the revenue. The noble lord concluded by moving au
amendment on the resolution of the noble earl " that a select com.
mittee be appointed, to inquire into the depressed state:of the agri-
cultural and manufacturing interests of the kingdom, for the pur.
pose of ascertaining whether any and what relief could be afforded."
The Marquis of BUTE was of opinion, that there were not suffi.
dent grounds for inquiry ; and stated, on his own actual knowledge,
that the distress was only partial. He was not insensible to the dis-
tress, and had done what he could to alleviate it. During the last
two months. he considered that a good deal of improvement had
taken place among the manufacturing and ship-building interests.
He reposed the utmost confidence in the present government and
gave them credit for a desire to relieve the country to the utmost of
their ability. He wished those taxes which pressed the most hea-
vily on the poorer classes to be taken off : he might mention the
taxes upon hops, beer, and coals carried coutways. The noble mar-
quis concluded by expressing his determination to oppose both mo.
tions for inquiry.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE would vote against the original motion
and the amendment, because he expected no relief from the
means proposed to be adopted. The Noble Duke (of Welling.
ton) had stated that the agricultural distress could not be so
great, as meat and wood now bore nearly as high prices as at
most other periods. He denied the correctness of the noble
• duke's statement as to wood. He (Lord Wharncliffe)
could new only get 2s. 6d. a foot for timber, which formerly brought
as. 6d. so great was the reduction caused in the price of the article
by the importation of foreign timber. Wood had fallen at least 100/.
per cent. With respect to meat, by whatever process the price was
kept up in town, it had fallen greatly in value in many parts of the
country.
The Duke of WELLINGTON observed, that what he had said
was, that at present meat and wood both brought prices nearly equal
to those which they produced when taxes were much higher.
The Earl of DARNLEY said, that if he thought any advantage
was to be expected from the inquiry which it was proposed to
institute, he should vote for it ; but he was not of opinion that
this was the case. He contended that the distress was not so
great as had been supposed by some ' • and expressed his con.
viction that we were arrived at the lowest point of de-
pression, and that both in agricultural and manufacturing af.
Fas,we might even now see cause for sanguine hopes of a return
to a better state. He gave the government credit for sincerity in
their attempts to carry reductions into effect, but thought that they
might be carried much farther. Sir H. Parnell had stated in his
valuable financial work that more by 1,300,0001. was now paid for
the collection of a revenue of 54,000,0001. than was formerly paid
for the collection of a revenue of 58,000,0001.; here was ample
room for reduction.

Earl STANHOPE replied.
The house then divided on the original motion :
Content
Not content . 67 present, proxies sl—Total 118.
Majority against the motion
The house then adjourned at TWO o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS—TifunsDAT.

The ballot fot a committee to decide on the Cork city election pe-
tition was fixed for this day ; and there being, at four o'clock, only
73 members present, 100 being necessary, the house adjourned till
W41:1017011/.

THE EVENING STAR.

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