Star.
London, England, 1822-02-22 00:00:00

AGRICULTURAL DISTIMSS.

Fall STANHOPE held a Petition, signed by six or seven
hundred Owners and Occupiers of Land in the County of Kent,
who complained of Agricultural Distress, and prayed for relief
and the reduction of the taxes. He did not think it necessary
to enter at length upon those topics, as they were to be discussed
on Tuesday, and he hoped there would be many opportunities
to inquire into the causes of that general and unexampled distress
which now prevailed. Ile did not agree with those who attri-
buted it to the great impartation of corn which had taken place
some years ago, for its operation could not have lasted so long,
and the prices were higher when It lasted than they were now.
Neither was corn the sole produce of the country which had
been reduced in value. Cattle were equally depreciated, and yet
there had been and could be no importation of foreign cattle.—
Some maintained that excess of production, and not excess of
importation, bad occasioned the existing distress; but the real
CUM was one much more natural and more difficult to remove
—excess of taxation. The prices were the same in 1792 as they
were at present, and there was no distress, because only 15 or
16 millions were then raised in taxes, whereas the enormous sum
of 55 millions . was now levied from the people. The same dis-
tress existed in other countries, where taxation, bearing no just
proportion to their natural means, was imposed to support great
military establishments, improper in time of peace. The only
remedy was to reduce the public burdens to the same amount
as the value of the currency had been lowered. For that pur-
pose the interest of the National Debt must be reduced 40 or 50
per cent. and if any such proposition was made, he should be
ready to contend that the measure was a just one, and involved
no breach of public faith. The Revenue had been described as
flourishing, but it bad not been stated whether the taxes were
paid by the people out of their capital or out of its rroduce. He
believed that in a short time they would not be paid at all. He
hid before called upon their Lordships to pause and meditate be-
fore they ventured on that fatal measure, the resumption of Cash
Payments, as if it were attempted to force it. into execution, no-
thing but national bankruptcy could ensue. He entreated their
Lordships to look at the state of Ireland, which did not arise from
political or religious causes, but from that distress which had
originated in 1819, when the measure for resuming of Cash Pay-
ments was adopted. He entreated them, in justice to all the
great interests which were at stake, in justice to the people, who
were suffering so deeply, to turn their mind to that abyss of
ruin, now open at their feet. They stood on the brink of a pre-
cipice, from which it might not be possible to retreat without
difficulty, but beyond which they could not proceed without ruin
and destructi.m. The Noble Lord concluded by moving that
the Petition be laid on the table, but on account of some infor-
mality, he was afterwards allowed to withdraw it.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN presented a Petition from
certain Occupiers of Land in the County of Dorset, and the
adjaceut parts of the Counties of Hants and Wilts, praying far
Agricultural Relief.—Read and laid on the table.—Adjoutncd.

HOUSE OF COM MONS.
Mr. 'Maws took the oaths and his 7rat on his re-election.

Nr. Ilionaas, from the Oflice of the Commissioners for the
reduction of the National Debt, presented certain papers front
that ffilice.—Ordered to li: uu the table.

A Return was ordered of the Flat and Tallow imported into
Great Britrin, in the course of the last year.
Air. BERNAL wished the Honourable Secretary fur the
Colonial Department, to state, as the fact was, that there
could be no foundation for a report which had found its way
into the Public Papers, that an Order in Council had issued,
atitlimising the opening of the tr..de between the Wi.st ludies
'and America?

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered, in
July next, when the present Act would expire.
Mr. BENNET said, it would be in the recollection of the
House, that last Session certain inquiries were made of the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite relative to Mr. Theodore Hook.
It was then said, that the opinion of Mr. Solicitor-General was
about to be taken on the question, whether any criminal pro-
ceedings could be sustained against Mr. Hook. He (Mr. Ben-
net) wished to know whether the opinion had been obtained,
and what measures had been taken to recover the balance due
from Mr. Hook to the Public?

The CH A NCKLLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave an as-
surance that Government had taken every means in their power
to recover the money.—The Report was then read a first and
second time.

On the motion of the CHANCF.LLOR of the EXCHE.
QUER, it was ordered that the House should to-morrow re-
solve itself into a Committee of Ways and Means.
Mr. BONNET moved for an Amount of the Monies due
from Mr. Theodore Hook to his Majesty's 'freasyry, and of the
measures takca to recover the same, with the names anti descrip-
dons of his sureties.

Lord JOIIN RUSSELL wished to ask a question of the
Noble Marquis opposite. It was known that the Spanish Go-
vernment, by a wise economy, had resolved to leave oil the cus-
tom of permanently sending Ambassadors to Foreign Courts.—
In consequence of this regulation, he apprehended our own Am-
bassador at the Court of Madrid might properly be withdrawn ;
but he understood that the Gentleman who was there at pre-
sent had been made Secretary of Embassy from being Sccre.ar7
of Legation.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, there would be no
saving by withdrawing the Gentleman alluded to, for he would
in that case be entitled to a pension. The arrangement was, that
he merely retained his rank._
RELIEF OF THE COUNTRY.
Lord ALTHORPE said it would have been infi-
nitely to his satisfaction if some other Member, more
capable, had taken up this subject; but having heard
the plan of the Noble Marquis opposite—having
heard it discussed, and generally considered as totally
inefficacious, and seeing that no opportunity was pt o-
posed to be given by Ministers for taking the sense
of the House upon the measure, he thought it neces-
sary to submit the motion which he was about to
bring under their attention. lie knew very well that
if he had only to consider these questions with re-
ference to the degree of swisfaction with which the
country regarded the plan of the Noble Marquis, it
would be testuced to a very narrow compass indeed.
prcposed to consider, first of all, what, in his
opinion, ought to be the policy of the Government
in the pre:.ent situation of the country ; and; in doing
so, he was aft aid he should be obliged to enter into
some details which he felt his inability to do justice
to, but which he would confine to as short a com-
pass as possible. And with regard to the opinion
which the Noble Marquis and several others seemed
to entertain, that taxation had nothing to do in pro-
ud dug the picent distress, he had thought, below

Mr. %VII.MOT was happy to nuke the ►tatement requested
by the Hou. Member. There was no Paw authorising the issue
of such an Order in Council, the Act giving such a power having
expired six months after the Tremy of Peace.
Sir JOHN SKIM I GHT presented a Petition from the
OWlll'ff and Occupiers of Lard in Hertfordshire, complaining of
Aga icultanal Distress. A Petition on the same subject, praying
for a reduction of taxes, and fur Parliamentary Reform, was
pre-waited by the same lealther.--Both Petitions were ordered
to lie on the table
Mr. LOCK II JIRT presented a Petition from certain Owners
and Occupiers of Land In Suffolk, c in.i.lae.;!•.‘ of 111:rea, and

•
praying far i.rateraing Dodge upon die for„t,,,km of Aides ' the present Session. that it was nbt necessaiy to argue
produce.--oeared to lie al Ike table. , upon such a question; for, whatever theories might
Mr. BlitNETT_Lef Wife) erollllllllll a regfr="ll., I be advanced upon the subject, it must be evident to
DiarreaLLancl4willersnfx,,,,,,...,ll.lll plaids", he could
vouch. fee the poem: I all ti a: tilt re was no difference between our situation
racy of the perm., and for the t„peetahuhl of the peeking's. at present and that of 1792. than in the amount ofO`er
red w lit oa the tab. our taxation and our great distress at present (Hear):
Mr. DENISON ressoted a Petition agreed to at the late
The cur re was
Surrey Couaty Made& and signed by the Sheriff. It coin-
ncy same—the nomi
piained, the Has. Member said, warmly, but respectfully, of the articles of consumption was the same value of ;
the onlydistress and pauperism late which the agricultural interest had the nal
the
difference, in short, was the enormous weight of tax.
fallen. It attributed meek of that dktress to the wasteful ex- ation—(Hear).—The Noble Marquis contended, on
penditure of the public money, mad the want of a popular repre-
sentation ia Parliament : aad it prayed for the repeal of the
taxes upon salt, malt, soap, and candles, and fora Reform in
Parliamaat. The Hoe. Member added, that it the Meeting in
q
u alt Arbeadment to the original Resolution had been
Prop by a Noble Lord, nearly connected with the Noble
Marquis opposite, eating that " the measures proposed by mi_ a. former night, that the landholder gave away in
taxes no more than one-seventh of his rent—and, to
weaken his own argument, he admitted that be gave
away one-fifth. On what data the Noble Marquis had
founded his calculation, he Lord Althorpe) was at a
loss to understand. But it appeared to him that the
nisrers for the relief of the country, could not be effectual.^...-
This was a itrange circumstance, coming, as it did, from a qua„. Noble Lord, in leaving out of view the pressure of
ter connected with Ministers. As for himself, he thought the indirect taxes on the farming interest, omitted one
measures alluded to, andespeeially that of an issue of Exchequer of the greatest causes of pressure. The Noble Mar.
thus, would add to the burdens of the country, and assist none quis ought to have known that the effect of taxes on
but contractors and stock-jobbers.
the necessaries of life was not merely to increase
Sig IOU; it4mauaN supported the Petition, and thought
saki tlk-lion. Member for 'Surrey, that the Measures their price, but that it also raised the price of labour,
by Moisten for the relief of the country, would prove made- Taxes of this nature pressed most on the agricultural
quote. Indeed he considered that the shilling a bushel un labourer. The manufacturing labourer being paid
malt had better have remained in the pockets of Ministers than . •
for his skill and ingenuity, in addition to his labour,
be offered to the agriculturists as a relief of their distresses. It
could have no effect but that of disgusting them. He could as. was enabled, in ordinary times, to obtain the luxuries
sure Ministers that be wished them to keep their places as much of life ; and, when pressed by taxation, was still enao
as they did themselves : but it was on condition that they bled to procure the necessaries of life. The 2rielits•
shewed some sympathy for the sufferings of the People, and g
rural labourer had only the bare necessaries of life,
I consented to a Reform of the Parliament, without both of which
and these he must have, either from the wages of his
he would never support any Minister or any set of men.—The
Petition was then ordered to lie on the table. labour, or from parochial relief. It was evident, then,
Mr. Sheriff GAILZATT presented a Petition front the Lord that whatever increased the price of labour must in-
Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of the City, praying, crease the price of all articles procured by labour. If
that leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide for the repairs
of London Bridge.—Referred to a Committee. tau be the case, it must be apparent that taxation to
The Sheriff presented another Petition from the same per. a great extent, by increasing the expense of produc-
sons, praying fora similar Bill with respect to blackfriars Bridge. tion, must be a great cause of the distress. If tax-
Ordered to lie on the table.
ation be the main cause of distress, the obvious re-
Mr. W. SMITH, referring to a former motion fora Return
of the number of Extents in Aid issued within a given period, medy was to diminish that taxation.-(Hear).—Distress
moved for a further Return of all Extents in Aid issued from could never be removed by raising the prices. Great
the 31st of December last up to the present time. He made retrenchment, so as to enable the farmer to raise his
this motion in consequence of the extension of these writs having produce at a much less cost—that was the true and
caused so much discontent in the country, that a disturbance was
very likely to follow.his *stress— ear .
only effectual remedy for d. (H )
Mr. WODEHOUSE was glad the Hon. Member had made They were told that a surplus of £5,000,000 would
the motion, and trusted he intended to found some ulterior mea- arise in future over the expenditure of the country.
sure upon it. It was a subject, an examination of which would His view of the case was, that taxes to that amount
disclose the most flagrant abuses.
Mr. GR EN FELL concurred In opinion with the last speaker, ought to be taken off—(Hear, hear).—He would not
. ,
and expressed his belief, that of all abuses there was no one stand out for a reduction of the. supplies of the State
which more than the present called for the interposition of Par- to the amount barely necessary for the public ser-
'lament. He knew a case of recent occurrence in the city of vice; but he believed he could shew that, without
London, in which one creditor had seized nearly the whole of producing any such effect, five millions might be
his debtor's property, to the injury, not to say robbery, of all the
rest.—The motioa was agreed to. saved in the expenses of the country. His object
Mr. BERNAL moved for an account of the application of was to shew that the expenses ought and might be
the sum granted last Session of Parliament for Army Extraor- reduced to the standard of 1792. It might be said
dioaries, and the application of the balance upon the grant of
1820.—Ordered. that it was unfair to select that year for the criterion
Mr. LUSHINGTON moved for leave to bring in a Bill to of a peace establishment, because Mr. Pitt was just
rectify mistakes in the last Land Tax Bill. Leave was given, then in the course of making the reduction which the
and the MI was brought in and read a first time. circumstances of the times called for. The plain
sir AL W. RI D LEY gave notice that he should, on an early
day, move for a Return of the Receipts and Expenditure of answer to this argument was, that the circumstances
Greenwich hospital. of the times at present required that the same severe
Mr. Alderman WOOD said, that as the motion of a Noble system of retrenchment should be carried into exe-
Lord (Althorpe) had excited much interest, he was willing to cution. But the House would find that his calcu-
postpone his notice respecting the City Petition to the 28th inst.
and he postponed it accordingly. lations did not proceed upon the necessity of adapt-
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (with the per- ing the expenditure 'of the present period exactly to
mission of Lord Akhorpe, whose notice bad priority) moved, the amount of that of 1792. He should make an
that the Report of the Committee of Supply be brought up.—The allowance for the necessary increase of expenditure
Report was brought up; and on the question that it be read, which arose during the interval. He would first con-
Sir R. HERON wished to know, whether the House could
now be informed of the expenses occasioned by his Majesty'sthe military establishment of both periods:
alder
Coronation? Army Estimates of 1792 - - - ,C2,33C,849
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the ac- To this he would add the increase of pay in the
counts were not yet made up. same number of men since 1798
Mr. CALCRAFT wished to know when the proposed relief The Half-pay
from the additional Malt Tax would take effect?

724,329
2,360,538

Total -
So that, retaining the establishment of 179'2, and
adding to the expense cf that establithment the
amount of the increase of the pay, and also the
amount of the half-pay, the whole expense mould be
no more than 5,415,7361. Now let the House look
at the present amount of the exi_e se of the A7my.
The Army Estimates for this year amounted to
7,774,0001. she% ing a clear increase over the esta-
blishment of 1792, with an allowance for the dif-
ference of pay and that of half-pay, of 2,358,364/.
He felt himself incompetent to the task of shewing in
detail how a reduction of expenditure might take
place. But if Ministers were seriously disposed to
give relief to the country, they ought to decrease the
military establishment ; and, if they shewed no dis-
' position of doing that, under present circumstances,
perhaps they might be forced to it, in case they were
deprived of the surplus of five millions. In the Co-
lonial Department he was sure great reductions might
be made. Why should not the Colonies be able to
support their own establishments? If the expense
of each of the-establishments was maintained out cf
the income which it produced, a great weight would
be taken off the people. The Colonies had been
looked to in two points of view—in a commercial
view, and as they increased our strength. In a com-
mercial view they greatly contributed to support the
empire; but it could never be said that they added
to our strength, seeing that they pressed so heavily
on our resources. He would now proceed to consider
the Navy Estimates according to the same mode of
comparison as he had calculated those of the Army.
The Navy Itftlmates for 1792 X 1,985,492
Increase of Pay 145,823
Half-pay 1,020,000

Total

5,151,305