Star.
London, England, 1812-12-11 00:00:00

.

but paiticularly at the battle or
Royal, Highness the Pence Regent
name and on behalf of his Majesty, 1
HOUSE OF LORDS, DECEMBER to. to order that those Officers now sery
The Insolvent Debtors' Amendment Bill was, On the motion rary rank in the several regiments
of LORD ELLENBOROUGH, read a second time, and corn have permanent rank in the British
mitred for to-morrow dates of their respective CoMMissiol
The oaths were administered to the Earl of Londonderry, and
she Bishop cf Lichfield and Coventry. ship thought that this order coup_
APPEALS. . only in one way, that which the.words plainly im-
Lnrd REDESDALE mentioned, that it would be ported, and so comprehending it, it appeared to be
of great importance to the public service to have a an attempt (ineffectual it must be, because it was
speedy decision on an Appeal vow before the Huuse, contrary to a positive enactment) to introduce Fo.
relative to encroachments itt Portsmouth harbour, reign German Officers, permanently, or as long as
and suggested the glpfiliCACg Di bearing it on an they should live, into the British army ; the German
early day atter the recess. • .. Legion having been enrolled as a temporary corps.
The LORD CHANCELLOR. said, be had no —The ingenuityof the other side of the House had,
objection ro take this Appeal out of its course, pro- however, he believed, discovered another interpreta.
sided it valid be done without injUstlce to the other tinn, and he should sit down in the hope that the
suitors be.ore the House. If the Appeal now al- Noble Lord (Palmerstone) would state whether he
laded to could be heard in the morning, so that it did or did not concur in the explanation just offered?
taigfit not interfere with the regular course of pro- Lord PALMERSTONE begged that Lord Folk-
meeting in regard to. other Appeals, he should be stone would repeat his construction of the words of
willing to agree to such an arrangement. It would i the Order. •
be telt to be an indispensißle act of justice to the other Lord FOLKSTONE complied, repeating what
suitors to make some such an arrangement, when be he had before said, and adding, that by the order in
stated, that of the 270 Appeals and Writs of Error question he understood that the Officers of the Ger.
now on the Table, the last of these, according to the man Legion were to be allowed half pay.
mode of hearing hitherto acted upon, could not be Lord PALMERSTONE replied, that it was not
decided for eleven years fri m this time. his intention, nor could it be the effect of the order,
Lord REDESDALE had no objection to agree to give the Officers of the German Legion privileges
to this arrangement. It was only the importance of or advantages inconsistent with the Act, under the
the case to the public service that induced him to authority of which the German Legion was formed.
propose to take it out of its course. His Lordship , Lord FOLKESTONE continued. If such were
went into the consideration of the Bill. recently passed the fact, the order was a nullity, and amounted to
by the House, and sent down to the Commons, for nothing—(Hear,liear.)-Lbut the explanation just at-
the appointment of a Vice• Chancellor, observing, ' tempted was directly at variance wish the words of
that either that measure, or the House, must aban- the instrument, and those words were equally theon•
don its appellate jurisslktion. Which was the more . sistent with the Act of Settlement, and with the sta.
constitutional course, it needed no argument to point , tute embodying the German Legion. In the extra.
out. The greaest grievances and hardships to par- ; ordinary vocabulary of the War Office, the term tem.
ties arose from the delay in hearing Appeals in that porary might not mean during a limited period, or
douse, and the only effectual remedy he conceived the term permanent, mean during an unlimited pe.
to be, to give assistance to the Lord Chancellor in skid, but until the War Office could transform the,
the Court of Chancery, in order to enable that Noble I English language, as they had transformed the Eng.
and Learned Lord to sit in the House of Lords, at i lish army, the true sense would be perfectly obvious
times when at present he was required to sit in the! to every man who had sense to comprehend any
Court of Chancery. It was also of importance that I thing. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord would an.
some measure should be adopted to compel the at-' swer, iperhaps, with equal intelligibility, that this
tendance of Peers, during the mornings for three or was meant as a reward for meritorious service, but
four days in the week, in order to the hearing and de. what boon was it to tell a man that something should
Biding upon Appeals with a due regard to the funs- be bestowed upontim, which; from a positive enact-
tions of the House, and the interest of Suitors. His ment, Gould never be realized ? The officers of the
Lordship moved that the Appeal in question should , German Legion were all serving with temporary
be taken into consideration on the first day after the' rank, and none other could be given to them. In for..
tecoss, which would probably be early in February. Imer times, British subjects had been allowed tempo.
Lord Viscount MELVILLE urged the great tm-irary rank, without ascending the regular steps of
portance of deciding upbn this Appeal as speedily , promotion, by which means they were put over the*
as possible, as it involved in a great degree the vais. heads of older officers. Of this fact, Sir Thelfellp
tence of Portsmouth Harbour. I Graham was a memorable instance, but it was now,
The LORD CHANCELLOR was perfectly abolished in every corps but in the German Legion.
aware of the importance of the case to the public ser. lln 1804, they were embodied ; they came over in
vice, and was anxious that some arrangement might , numbers from the Continent, and this man was ap-
be adopted with a view to its speedy decision. He pointed Colonel, and another Lieutenant Colonel,
proposed, therefore, that the hearing should com. with temporary rank, but they are now advancing
Thence on the first day after next Term, at ten o'clock and shouldering out our own General Officers, and•
in the morning, and that the Lords should be sum- I taking the command of our own armies—(hear, hear,
moned during each day of its progress. As to him. from Minietere)-7-ene of them actually had the con-
self, whether in or out of office, he would certainly ; troul of a district. On what authority were these in.
attend. With regard to the Bill (for the appoint- uovations attempted L Was it that at the War Of.
rnent of a Vice-Chancellor), he had cautiously ab.; lice, not being able to comprehend their own Order,
stained from saying any thing upon it, being satis- i they were actually incompetent to understand the
fled, that although it must be admitted that the Bill !obvious wording of an Act of Parliament? 4)id they
bad reference only to a Chancellor, and nut to the make any nice distinction between what they might
Chancellor, still that what fell from him, upon the : call "temporarily permanent," and " permanently
subject, would be received with a certain degree of temporary ?" If the order meant any thing, it was
prejudice. He would, however, say this much, that either a proof of the absurdity of the persons in the
he would not have suffered the measure to have gone War Department, or a proof that they meant to de-
on to its ultimate stage, had he not been thoroughly lude end entrap the officers of the German Legion
convinced of its absolute necessity, for the assistance (equally ignorant with themselves of the English lan-
of suitors in that House. I guage) by pretending to reward their* valour, but
The Appeal in question was ordered to be taken ! giving them in reality nothing but empty words. He
into considt ration en the first day after the recess, ' hoped that the Noble Lord, or some of his friends, if
with the understanding, that the hearing should cone they understood enough English, would at.
I least at-
mence on the first day after the Term, as proposed tempt an explanation of a circumstance which had ex-
by the Lord Chancellor.—Adjourned. cited great uneasiness and disturbance in our forces,
the officers of which could not, with patience, endure
• HOUSE OF COMMONS. to see their hard earned honours disparaged, while
Mr. PARKER brought up ti.A' Report of the Committee al' German Barons or Counts were placed over their
pointed to inquire into the Debts of the Nabob of the Carnattc. heads. After what bad fallen from the other side,
The Sheriffs of the City of London presented at the Bar, a I
Petition for a Bill to enlarge Smithfield Market. the proposition which his Lordship intended originally
A Petition was presented from the unsuccessful Candidate to have made on this subject, must be altered ; but
for the Borough of Tregony, .complaining of an undue return.: as a foundation for it, he would in the first instance
It was ordered that it be taken into consideration on the 29d of [move, that an humble address be presented to the
February.
Prince Regent, praying him to lay before the House
On the motion of Mr. RosiNSON, leave was given to bring !
In a Bill to indemnity those persona who had advised and acted I copies of ill orders issued from the War Office re-
arm an Order in Counc 1, allowing importations, under certain ! aznatingthe rank of officers serving in the King's
restrictions, into the West Indies, contrary to the Act passed in ' n Lesion.
the Session of 18011.
Lord PAL.MERSTONE lamented that the Noble
The Sugar Brewery Bill, and the Starch Prohibition Bill, way '
severalty read a third time, and passed. Lord who had just sat down, did not allow him to
Mr. Les UINGTON brought up the Reports of the Committisa answer his speech, before he delivered it (4 laugh)—
.f Supply and Ways and Means. The Resolutions were am* because it might have saved the House considerable
to, and Bills ordered.
trouble. The difference was merely as to the inter.
THE KING'S GERMAN LEGION. pretation of words which had become technical, as
Lord FOLKSTONE roserin pursuance of notice, applied to the military service. Permanent rank was
to call the attention. of Parliament, as early as pos.' that which was 'possessed by every officer in the re.
sible, to a subject of undoubted magnitude. He 1 gulartritish army, and temporary rank was such as
should not have delayed even thus long, had be not I was given to persons who had raised bodies of men
been requested by a Noble Lord, who b, hoped fin the public service, who were provided with high
would not take advantage of the absence of some commissions, without advancing through the pre-
supporters of the motion, an absence occasioned by , vious stages. Temporary rank, thus conferred, ap.
its previous postponement. During the last Session I plied only to the particular corps, and did not
of the late Parliament, he (Lord Folkstone) had ad.: 'entitle the individual either to Brevet rank, or to
*cud more than once to the infraction of the law of half pay. In truth, nothing more permanent had
the country, by the introductio'n of Foreign Officers ; been conferred on the officers of the German Le-
into the British Corps, and a return upon the subject ' gion, than what the law allowed ;—and, at the
being universally called for, it was laid upon the ; time the order was framed, the Act of Parliament
T.eate. Upon examination, however, it was found embodying them, was kept in view. It was by
very de:ective, inasmuch as it only stated the num- i no means correct to say, that all the officers in our
her of For: ign Officers employed in that small per. j foreign corps had only temporary rank. Such as
lion of the native British force then within the three were appointed in the commencement were certainly
Kingdoms, omitting all these upon foreign service.' in that predicament ; but as vacancies occurred they
Oae object, therefore, was to remedy this error, by were filled up by persons upon whom permanenel
auggesting,that a return be made of all the Foreign rank was conferred, and who' were placed in
Officers at present employed in the British Army every respect on a footing with their brother officers.
properly so called. Another motion would be for a Noble Lord had maintained, that the Order wan
return of the number of Foreigners who have re- inconsistent with the act, which required the King to
ceived Staff appointments, and a third for a return grant commissions, and letters of service; but it did
of the number of Officers of the 60th Regiment of not provide that they should be different from those
Infantry appointed to the Staff, who by law were ; in other cases bestowed, excepting that they were un.
expressly excluded from that thuation. His main f doubtedly to terminate at the disbanding of thecorps
design, however, was to draw the notice of the House ;at the time limited and that the officers "s
essing
to an order respecting the King's German Legion, I them were not to have the benefit of half-pay. Then
inserted in the Gazette of the 18th of August last. lit would be asked, what benefit did the officer eer
It was as follows :—" In consideration of the King'st from this omen ginv.).—Ho received
German Legion having so frequently distinguished advantage, ea a Noblme who had gallantly served his
tetmseives against the enemy, during the campaign, gourays of Di 3 ova inbon,chat when his convuision

PARLIAMIIVT4Rr J

rELLIGENCE.

derive I

, his services should no longer be re-
should be printed in the Army Lists
And being printed in the Army List§
bear the rank to which his merits so
entitled him. Lord Palmerston, de-
lly, that the instrument in the, Ga,
ith the officers of British regiments*
the scale of promotion in the Ger-
man Legion had always been the same, not allowing
that young officers entitled to brevet rank should pass
those of older standing, who had not the same ad-
vantage. The Noble Lord opposite might, perhaps,
ask, for what purpose the order was required ? It
was-to bestow a well-merited compliment on a body
of men who had always been distinguished for gall•
antry and discipline : as far as related to the rank
they were to bear (though not to the emolument they
were to receive), it converted temporary into perma-
nent service. What they acquired was honour, the
end and aim of a soldier ; that for which be fights
and dies. To the German Legion such a reward
was not, and could not be deemed a trifle ; it was la
truth the most gratifying to their f.selings and well
come to their ambition. Those who were acquainted
from previous unhappy experience with the send='
meats of the Noble Lord (Folk:tow) on the subject
of the employment of foreigners for our own and the
defence of our allies, would be aware that to carry
this motion was not so much his object, as at the
commencement of a new Parliament to make a sort
of declaration that his opinions were unaltered, and
that he intended to continue the same road he bad
pursued dnring the last Parliament. If he thought
that their employment was improper, all Lord Pal-
merstoae wished was, that all those ho entertained
a different sentiment should be admitted to have as
much love for, and as correct views of the Constitu-
tion as their opponents. Looking at the present state
of the world, and viewing the countless hosts that
were arrayed against Great Britain, single handed,
it seemed to Lord Palmerstone the height of absur-
dity to make such an objection. Because our hav-
ing swept the seas of our enemies, and because our
small but gallant armies had hitherto stood undaunt-
ed and unbroken before the overwhelming forces of
France and all her dependanti States, was it to be ur-
ged that we were, unaided and unsupported, capa-
ble for ever of sustaining so unequal a contest ? That
our foreign corps, and particularly the German Le-
gion, merited all the'rewards that could be bestowed
upon them, no man, let him belong to what party he
might, would deny.—(Hear, hear.)—To the return
first noticed by the Noble Lord of the foreign officers
employed in our whole military force, Lord Palmer-
stone had no objection : but the document last re-
quired, he should resist with his utmost power, and,
he trusted, that the House in giving its negative. to.
the motion would, by implication at least, give its
approbation to the employment of foreigners in our
armies, and its sanction to the general system on
which the war had been conducted.

Mr. PONSONBY protested against the wish ex-
pressed by the Noble Lord, that the House should
upon this or any other occasion come to a decision
respecting the merits of any question not immediately
connected with the motion before it—that it should
determine as to the policy of employing German
troops upon arguments delivered in the course of the
last Parliament, and which arguments perhaps not
twenty Members then present bad ever heard. With
e explanation of the NoLtle Lord, relative to the
order under consideration, the Right Hon. Gentle-
man declared himself perfectly satisfied, because he
now saw nothing illegal or unconstitutional in its
character, although before that explanation he cm.
tainly understood the order as the Noble mover-un-
derstood it, and, as he believed, it was understood
by every body else. This order was professedly
meant to reward that deserving body of men the
German Legion, by conferring upon its Officers per..
manent rank in the British Army ; but it appeared
that in the vocabulary of the War Office, the word
permanent implied something contradictory to itself;
that it did not imply constant or perpetual, but some-
thing temporary or limited. Now he would appeal
to any man, whether it was at all probable, that such'
a peculiar meaning was likely to be so generally un-
derstood ? He would put it to the Noble Lord him-
self, whether, if it were officially announced to him
that he was permanently. to hold his, present situation,
at the War and that it was afterwards inti-
mated that he was to be deprived of it at the termi-
nation of the war, or one year afterwards, which it
appeared was to conclude this permanent grant to the
German Officers, the. Noble Lord would not feel
some degree of astonishment; nay, whether he would
not conceive that it had been originally intended to
delude him ? But if the grant made to the German:
Officers were really regarded by that body as a boon,
as a reward for services, he must say that they were
very easily gratified, and that the Government of
England had discovered a more cheap and easy way
of rewarding military officers than had yet been hit
upon by any other country in Europe. Perhaps the
word permanent, mentioned in the order, was not,
correctly speaking, applicable to any part of the
British Army, for thanks to our Constitution, there'
was no such thing as a permanent army in the coun.
try—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial henelserly—the
whole being subject to the annual consideration .of
Parliament, without whose consent it could not con-
tinue to exist. Therefore, when. he read the word
'permanent applied to the Officers of the German Le- ,
,pion, he confessed that he felt considerable astonish- !
assent, conceiving it to be the result of some peculiar
arrangement with that body, which was novel to the
-Constitution, and contrary to the Act originally or-
ganizing that corps. But he was quite satisfied with
is ex of the Noble Lord ; and here be
it to be understood, that as to any prejudices
*Med by the Noble Lord to prevail among any body'
of men, against the character of the German Legion,
46.1.1111450 t to be included in that body,—(Hear, ear,
Ministerial and Oppothisa &whet). For he had
toold from various Officers who had served with the
Germans, that their conduct had been eminently dis-
tinguished by judgment and valour. He therefore
could not adopt any vulgar prejudices against these
gallant men, merely because they were foreigners.—
At the same time he must say, that die employment
of foreigners looked

5r Calamattea, his: should tease, and
;ent, actin in the ' qpiqulk is name 51
y, has been pleased ; =Haan; ar,)—al
erving with tempo- i lie wool still beat
of that corps, shall ; unquestionably en
sh army, from the ;fled most pointvdl
ions."—His Lord.; r.ette interfered wit
luld be understood, and insisted that

of foreigners in our stilly shoisid always be ioultd to
with a certain degree of jealousy. - Indeed in- all
countries that are free, and wished to remain so, the
employment of forgivers, particularly in the army.
might be at!ded jealousy. But in this in-
enlaces Bits of the- Gamin Lesko..
•