Star.
London, England, 1824-06-16 00:00:00

SLAVE TRADE.

Mr. Secretary CANNING presented Papers, by command of
Lis M.ii,•sty, consistiog of correspon.knce relative to the Slave Trade.
Mt. I 1 LOUC lIA M remarked, that the Slave Trade was carried
on by thz vessels and ports of France almost as zealously as before,
the Govi•rnment of France pretended to he anxious to promote the
Llichtion of the Slav:: 'rude—(M:A-, hear). •
Mr. Secretary CANNS:4O made no remark in reply. Conies-
pothletice ordered to be printed.

INDEPENDENCE OF THE SnUTH AMERICAN STATES.

J.-k NIES MACKINTOSH said, he had now to
pre:.ent to the House a Petition, signed by 117 Mer-
chants of tae City of London, at the head of whom
were Baling, Brothers, and Co. Sir John Lubbock,
Messrs.G olckch midt and Co. Benjamin Shaw, the Chair-
man at Lloyd's, and others equally respectable, on the
subject of the late Colonies of South America. Had
it been his wi,h to have brought the subject of the
South American States fully under discussion, he might
have scleeed a more convenient opportunity; but he
bad no such ssish, nor had the Petitioners. He, how-
ever, felt convinced, that the country would de-
sire to have some opinion given by Government on
this subject, previous to the separation of Parliament.
The petitioners now a4zed for the immediate recogni-
tion of the independence of such States as had, ►n tact,
established that independence. There was one word in
this request to which lie objected ; he wished to impute
no censure to the Gore' innent, neither did he wish to
tie then) down, in their proceedings, to time; and for
this reason he must object to the word immediately
which had been introduced into the Petition. He re-
gretted al-o that the Petitioners should have adopted
the word recognition, inasmuch as it was a word
which admitted of such different construction when

used by diffel eta parties. If used by the Government
on which the newly established independent States had
formerly &Tended, it .went to insure to these States
the full and unrestrained right to the independence
thus tecognized ; but such was not the case as re-
garded a State on which they had formerly had no
dependence, and who had no power over them. Such
was our case ; e had no more to chi with the recogni-
tion of South A mei ican independence, than we had
with the independence of any part of France or Russia.
Ile would now call the attention of the House to those
States of Europe who had recognized the principles for
which he had contended. There was, in the first place,
the memorable case of Holland. After a fierce struggle
of fifteen years, that Republic succeeded, in 1581, in
emanci-pating itself from the dominion of Spain, and
after the murder of that incomparable person who had
laid the foundation of its greatness alike with his own.
And in order to mar k the determined purpose of Spain,
she perpetuated this foul and abominable deed by
ennobling the family of the assassin. In the year 1581
Spain declared the independence of that illustrious Com-
monwealth ; but it was not till January, 1648, at the
Treaty of Westphalia, that she was prevailed upon to
recognize its independence. Did the House believe that
Europe looked quietly on; that it chose to forego the
advantages of an amicable intercourse with thisßepublic;
or that it chose to lose the means of adjusting the differ-
ences which might arise in that State?—Notwith-
standing that the Crown of Spain had not yet ac-
knowledged the independence of Holland, all the States
of Europe had not only sent ambassadors to the Hague,
but had entered into a league offensive and defensive;
all except a branch of the German Empire that was
connected with the House of Spain. England—not
indeed during the time that England was at war with
Spain, but after she had made peace with her—
did, in the Treaty of 1604, refuse to relinquish or to
withdraw her connections from Holland, at that very
time when the Marquis of Spinola, one of the
greatest Commanders then in Europe, was carrying
on the war in behalf of Spain, and was denouncing
the people 64 as rebels to the King his Master."—
The next instance was as remarkable as the other. In
the year 1640, Portugal adopted principles similar to
those of the illustrious Republic, threw off its allegiance
to the yoke of Spain, and placed the Duke of Braganza
on the Throne. In 1642, diplomatic relations were
established between England and Portugal, although
Spain did not acknowledge the independence of its
neighbour till forty years afterwards. But the most apt
illustration was to be found in the condust of foreign
Powers towards this country, when Cromwell held the
Protectorate. Ministers from all the European States
were sent to England, and concluded uleague offensive
and defensive with her, thereby acknowledging her as
a part of the Federal Alliance. No objection was made
against this league after the Restoration; sit was ac-
knowledged to be binding. by Charles H. and his Coun-
cillors, and on this ground, because it brought no of-
fence to other persons, but was for the advantage of the
people of the States who had acceded to it. Contrast.

this feeling. with the resentment and indignation of
our
ancestors, in the reign of James 11. at the conduct of
`Louis XIV. The French King had no interest of his sub.
jects in view when he entered into the league—mearl,
It was a great insult to them, as he could give no se.
cdrity to any subject who might carry on an intercourse
with this country—(Hear). He knew that the case q
the interposition by France with North America would
be referred to by those who touched upon the surfacerf
things. But France did not conCtne herself to a treaty
of amity ; under the guise of her Plenipotentiary, she
concluded an alliance offensive and defensive. Her its.
tentions on this point are clearly developed in the Ale.
moirs of M. Birullie, lately published, who was Go,
vernor of Martinique, in 1688. He says, that one part
of his instructions for his government in North Ante.
rica, was to watch the progress of disaffection, and to
form secret connections with the rebels—(Hear). Notv
this was at a time of profound peace, and there
nothing which could justify so treacherous an act. 'Rile
was then no resemblance between the two cases. Piat,cc
had no object to serve by a mere diplomatic intetcrinst;
she wished to league herself with the revolted subject
of Great Britain. He called the Americans rev° ;c.i

subjects" only because they were at war then a
this country, and from no wish to give ofreilce—
They were allied by blood to us, and their principles and
conduct had rendered them worthy of such a connection.
The Honourable and Learned Member then proceeds!
to advert to, and comment on, the papers which hal
been laid before the House on the subject of Said
America; and he patticul:trly commented on the Note
of Sir Charles Stuart, of the 3d March, 1821, and the
opinion of the Right Honnurable Secretary for Foreiu;
Affairs, in which all interference with the dispute be-
tween Spain and her colonies was strongly deprecated;
and it was declared by us that any attempt on the part
of Fiance to interfere by force in the dispute would he
the signal for our immediately recognizing their nide-
sendtmce; at the same time we claimed, not only kr
ourselves, but for all the world, the right of free com-
mercial intercourse with those States. In connection
with these declarations, he might refer to the observations
in the Speech of the Preident of the United State,
which were an honour to his country and to human na-
ture. The two nations uttered the same sentiments;
they were united in conduct, as writ as in bleed, both
boldly declaring their resolution to guard the South
I American States from the fangs of the Holy Alliance
(Hear)—from that beast of prey which strove to extend
its-crushing and withering influence over them as it had
already done over the Continent of Europe—(Cheers).--
It was English liberty in America, and E'iglish liberty
in Europe that had leagued to protect the itidepe:h!ence
of these countries—(Cheers). But although he t:.tis
applauded the excellent spirit which breathed in the'e
papers, he would say, that no Minister in England
dared to connive at the principles of the Holy Alliance;
and if such a bigot or a monster could have been found,
the people of England would instantly have hut led Kira
from his seat with the disgrace and ignominy which I;e
merited—(Cheers). The rumours, which last came ft (%:3
intelligent persons, stated that Spain wished to consider
the question of recognition along with the flien,llF
Powers of Europe, and that they bad agreed to the
call. But he had heard also, that England was still
England, and that she had refused to accede to the
wishes or to entertain the pi inciples of this Holy, or, he
should rather say, this Unholy Alliance— (Cries of
Hear, hear).--lA'culd to Gorr that she had adopted
these p; inciples ten Yeats ago! Would to Gun that he:.
conduct at Verona had not led to results so deplorable!
—(Cheers)—for as long as Spain remains a peonies:!
of France, or as long as a French army occupies her
territories, so long will it be considered that every
armament which -leaves the port of Spain is in reality
one of French composition—(Cries of Hear, hear).—
He would throw away with disdain any reference to
the dictates of a Holy or Unholy Alliance. Commit-
sinners had arrived in South America, and been re-
ceived with every mark of kindness and courtesy; and
he could wish that some calm consideration should be
had of the subject before the end of the Session. The
South American States might either be regarded as
one united body, or a number of independent Repub-
lics. They might be regarded, in the former point of
view, as they were united against Spain. The extent
of that country was from California to Cape Horn, and
in all that vast track there were only a few garrisons in
the possession of Spain. In Colombia, independence
had been completely established; in Buenos Ayres there
was no more the appearance of a Spanish soldier than
there was of a Jacobin in Great Britain. The independ-
ence of Chili seemed equally well established. As one
Body, Spain had no chance against that vast track of
territory ; and, taken as individual States, their indepen-
dence ought to be recognized,beeause they had achieved
it by force of arms. But another element was demand-
eel, that of tranquillity, in the new Government. It
would seem then that there was one law for Europe,
and another for America. We had acknowledged
Spain, although it was not tranquil and settled—(Hear,
hear)—for tranquillity could never be its lot as long as
it was occupied by a French army—even although
we had been told in the House that it was hu-
manity not to interfere in the expulsion of this
force, as, after it had retired, the opposing factions
would cut eath other's throats—(Hear, hear, hear).—
But it would appear that what in this country is meant
by amicable relations is, when applied to the infant
States of Atherieta, to have a totally different meaning.
He should wish to know from the Right Hon. Gentle-
man what was the exact state of tranquillity which was
to precede the recognition of independence? Why were
Consuls sent out ? Of what use were the Commissioners?
If they were dispatched from this country in order
to adjust the complaints of English subjects, would
not the same reasons apply equally strong for the
appointment of Ambassadors? The ingenuity of the
Right Honourable Gentleman might frame a dip
tinction between the two officers, but be .(Sir James)
' should think that Ambassadors were less necessary
' in a well-ordered thin in an unsettled country. It
was not necessary for him to dwell on the importance
of the measure as it respected the trade with this coun-
try. The extent of that trade rendered it necessary that
there should not only be Consuls, but higher diplomatic
Ministers. There were at least one hundred Englisit
houses of trade in various parts of South America; and
in the petition which had been presented fi om the mer-
chants of Liverpool, it would be seen that the exports in
1822 amounted in value to 3,800,0001. while those in
1823 were 5,600,0001. so that there was an increase of
1,100,0001, in the course of one year. From the same
paper we learnt that the exports of cotton goods from
Liverpool to South Amesica.were more valuable.tilan
those to North America, the former amounting in value
to 1,100,0001. s. bile the latter did not exceed 1,000,00C1.
In illustration of his argument he might also refer cc

•
4..
gmitit and indignation .of our
F James 11. at the conduct of
Bing had no interest of his sub.
:ered into the league—(Henr),
hem, as he could give no se.
might carry on an intercourse
1. He knew that the case q
re with North America would
ho touched upon the surface cf
not con Cine herself to a treaty
e of her Plenipotentiary, she
msive and defensive. Her its.
clearly developed in the Ale.
ely published, who was Go.
1688. He says, that one part
government in North Ante.
ogress of disaffection, and to
vith the rebels—(Hear). Now
>found peace, and there
fy so treacherous an act. 'Rile
between the two cases. Frat,cc
a mere diplomatic intetccusse;
;elf with the revolted subjecls
lied the Americans revo';cl
they were at war then %kith
no wish to give ofreoce...—
i to us, and their principles and
m worthy of such a connection.
trned Member then proceeded
lent on, the papers which hal
use on the subject of South
11:irly commented on the Note
the 3d March, 1821, and the
inurable Secretary for Foreign
lference with the dispute Ee-
rier was strongly deprecated;
s that any attempt on the pin
force in the dispute would he
diately recognizing their inde.
time we claimed, not only fcr
e world, the right of free com.
those States. In connection
might refer to the observations

I

whom theelfects of the
Captain Hall's valtuible 'Kirk
new state of things were clearly pointed out, and the
consequences of the recognition of independence very
accurately ,toted. In one instance he describes a con-
versation between a Mountaineer and a Royalist ; the
Royalist asks, Whet objection have you to the King
of Spain:'' Why," said the Mountaineer, " my ob.
jection is not to the King, but because he resides 6000
leagues oC—if we are to have a King, I should like
o have one nearer home." " But," said the Royalist,
why are you so anxious for trade; what do you under-
stand by it r Why," said the Mountaineer, " I find
that some time ago I paid nine dollars for my shirt;
now, in consequence of other traders coming, I pay
but two, and that I call a free trade"--( Hear, hear).
Mr. Hall's book shews, that from the southernmost point
of Chile to the most northern point of Mexico, the
whole country was open to our traffic, and from that
work it a.ipears that the trade is not recommended to
us in a selfish or mercenary point of view. We find,
said the Honourable Member, that our traffic was twice
blessed, blessing both the receiver and the giver. For,
Sir. by creating new wants, you infuse new faculties,
and thus you raise the population of that immense ter-
ritory from their debased and degraded condition to an
elevation worthy of a free and independent State—
(Hear, hear). It has been said, that Spain has no wish
to resume her ancient sway to the former extent in
South America, but we may collect what her conduct
would he, if again possessel of her Colonies, from the
Proclamation issued last year by General Camerae at
Lima. He there gave notice, that it was his intention to
put the old law in force with respect to British goods
wherever he found them, and added, that he had been re-
strained from doing so before from a feeling of mercy,
supposing that the merchants were ignorant of that law.
:The delay made in recogaixing the independence of
South America is, in my view of the question, calcu-
lated to prolong the divisions and dissensions which are
alaged as the cause of that delay; and though calcu-
lated to produce nu legal effects, strong moral effects
are likely to be produced by it. I appeal to the do-
cuments on your table in support of hay assertion, that
the connection between the Old World and New is at
this moment at stake, and that any delay will be pro-
ductive of the evils you wish to see subside. Sir, if you
make them outlaws, you will drive them to acts which
will deserve that title; if you refuse them the honours
due to free men, you will make them what you declare
them to be—(Hear). You may sow dissension, raise
faction ag tinst faction, prolong the effusion of blood,
and the continuance of violence and disorder ; all of
which may he avoided by the course which I now re-
commmf. I would not commit a breach of neutrality
to serve South America—l would not do an act of in-
justice to serve the commerce of England—but I would
do that, which, while it was in itself an act of justice,
would have the effect of establishing the independence
of South America, and emancipating 16,000,000 of
aruls trom that legitimate and paternal protection, that
justice and order, peace and harmony, which the resto-
ration of the beloved Ferdinand had spread over happy
Spain—(Hear, hear). I move, Sir, that this Petition
he brought up.
The Petition, which was inserted in the STAR of
Friday, was then brought up.
On the qUestion that It do He on the table,
Mr. Secretary CANNING said—Unquestionably, Sir,
am very far from having anything to complain of,
either with respect to the tone or topics with which my
Honourable and Learned Friend has introduced his
speech ; and if the observations which I shall feel it my
duty to make upon that speech, or the Petition upon
which it is founded, shall bear but a small proportion
to his address, I hope he will do me the justice to be-
lieve, that it is nut in consequence of any offence at what
he has said, or any.disrespect for his opinions. But my
Honourable and Learned Friend must be fully awaret
that though these ale in the late Spanish Colonies grea,
questions involved, anything which may tall from me
on the part of his Majesty's Government, would be likely
to produce effects which neither lie nor I could wish
to witness. I, therefore, must rather restrain every dis-
position which I feel to follow my Honourable and
Learned Friend through the various topics upon which
he has touched, and confine myself as much as possible
to a simple statement of facts, with no other qualification
than a full and clear understanding of them. My Hon.
and Learned Friend has gone over the papers, and given
a just analysis of the course pursued by his Majesty's
Government with respect to the South American Colo-
nies. He has justly stated, that the first question in
point of order for their consideration was, the question
between the parent state and hiteColonies ; and that
the course laid down by Ministers was a strict neu-
trality. In doing this, it was also right to observe,
that allowing the Colonists to assume an equal belli-
gerent rank with the parent country, we did, pro
taato, raise them in the scale of nations. Ills
Honourable and Learned Friend had justly said,
and it was also stated by the Petitioners, that in the
year 1822, the extent of the commerce then subsisting
between this country and the Colonies of Strain led to
another de facto recognition of their separate political
eitistence : we recognised their commercial flag, which
was admitted to the same advantages as the flags of in-
dependent States in amity with England. He has also
most correctly remarked, that the next step was taken
before the breaking out of the war between France and
Spain : an intimation was at that period given to Spain,
privately in the first instance, and afterwards publicly
to the whole would, that to the British Government it
appeared that time and events had very substantially
decided the question of sepatation, but that the fact of
recognition must be determined by various circum-
stances, and, among others, by the internal state of each
of die Colonies so claiming recognition. My Honour-
able and Learned Friend further stated, with the same
accuracy, that after that declaration made to Spain, and
after the publication of that declaration, which left nei-
er to Spain, nor to any other Power, cause of corn-
;slain:, if Great Britain should think fit to act practically
upon it, the circumstances of the last year induced this
sourary to suspend even the consideration of that ques-
tion—to suspend the mission of commercial agents to
Amelica, and to remain inactive and undecided
until the result of the contest in which Prance and Spain
v ere engaged. Immediately after the decision of that
vultest, or rather, I should say, at the moment of its
(!ecision, and before any consequences could arise and any
seep be taken by France, or by other Powers of Europe,
o.le effect of the issue of the war, a warning was given
by this country in the clearest terms, as to the course
site should pursue on any proposal for a joint con-,
ie:ence, or C.ngress, on the affairs of Spanish America.
hey Honourable and Learned Friend has faithfully re-
called to the recollection of the House the particular
expressions of that warning. The next stage in the
Thole of these transactiods was the proposals on the

'par: of Spain, that we should .bocoose a Member of
such a Congress, and join in such a conference. That
proposal was followed by our reftisal—(Hear• hear). On
the mode in which that refusal was made, first as it re-
lated to Spain, and next as it referred to the Colonies,
; the House. is already so perfectly advised, that it is not
necessary tor me to dwell upon it. Since that period
(and this forms the last stage of these transactions), a
• public discussion took place in this House. The state
en which things remained the last time the question
was agitated within these walls was this—it was stated
that the King's Government, though reserving to them-
selves the right of acting as they themselves should
think fit in reference to the interests of Great Britain
involved in those Colonies, yet they thought it not
merely politically expedient, but just and generous, to
afford Spain the opportunity of precedency, and abso-
lutely to suspend any decision, till they knew in whir
way she would avail herself of that opportunity—(Hear,
hear). What I have now to state is, that that condition
is at an end, and that with respect to any further steps
to. be taken by this country towards the South Ame-
rican Colonies, she must act for herself. What has
passed upon this point between the two Cabinets, it is
not necessary for me to particularise, but the result is,
that the British Government is left to act ution its own
decision, without further reference to Spain-(Hear).—
Such is the result I have to state, and there any com-
munication I have to make to the House ends. I trust
Honourable Gentlemen will see that, in stating what is
a fact, I avoid rather than incur the danger to which I
referred, and which might arise from the agitation of
this question. I apprehend that I should run the risk
of that peril if I wete to state any ulterior, conjectural,
or e een hypothetical case, and I shall, therefore, carefully
shun it--(Hear, hear).—Here I should conclude what I
have to address to the House, were I not glad of the
opportunity afforded by the speech of my Honourable
and Learned Friend, and for which opportunity I un-
.doubtedly thank him, of putting on its true ground,
and in its just light, the expression of recognition which
has been so much mistaken. It is perfectly true, as has
been mentioned, that the term " recognition" has been
much abused, and unfortunately that abuse has perhaps
been supported by some authority. It has clearly two
senses, in which it is to be differently understood. If
the colonies say to the mother country, " we assert our
independence," and the mother country answers, " I
admit it," that is recognition in one sense. If the colo-
nies say to another State, " we are independent," and
that other State replies, "I allow that you are so," that
is recognition in another sense of the term. That
other State simply acknowledges the fact—or rather
its opinion of the fact; but she confers nothing, un-
less under particular circumstances. She may be
considered as conferring a favour—(Hear, hear).—
Therefore, it is one question'whether the recognition of
the independence of the Colonies shall take place, Spain
being a party to such recognition ; and another ques-
tion, whether Spain, withholding what no power on
earth can necessarily extort by fire, sword, or conquest,
if she maintain silence without a positive refusal, other
countries should acknowledge that independence. I am
sure that my Honourable and Learned Friend will agree
with me in thinking, that hi., exposition of the different
senses of the word " recognition," is the clearest arga-
ment in favour of the course we originally took: viz.
that of wishing that the recognition in the minor sense
should carry with it recognition by the mother country
in the major sense—( Hear, hear). The recognition by
a neutral power alone cannot, in the very nature of
things, carry with it the same degree of authority as if
it were accompanied by the recognition by the mother
country also. If, therefore, the Government of Great
Britain had looked exclusively to the interests of the
Colonial States, she would reasonably pursue the course
we have in fact taken : it must have been an object of
higher importance to those States, that the recognition.
by Great Britain should be delayed, in the hope of
bringing with it a similar concession from Spain, rather
than that the recognition by Great Britain should be
so precipitate as to postpone, if not prevent, the recog-
nition by the mother country—(Cries of Hear, hear).
Whether all hope is over of any such step on the part
of Spain, is another question. Our obligation, then, as
a matter of fact, is at an end—l am enabled to state
that positively—the rest is a matter of opinion, and must
depend upon a balance of probabilities. But, as my Ho-
nourable and Learned Friend has said, this simple sense
of the term " recognition" has been very much mis-
understood, both here and in other places ; because,
though there is nothing more plain and easy titan the
act of acknowledging a fan (if fact it be), that such a
Government is independent, yet 1 am quite certain he
will agree with me, that it may make a difference, if
that acknowledgment be asked, which implies an expec-
tation of consequences which do not necessat ily belong
to it. I am sure he will feel, that great as the boon of
recognition in its simplest sense might be to any new
Government, it would be greater il, though given in one
sense, it were accepted in another. It might be given
as a mere acknowledgment of a fact, and accepted as
a sort of treaty of alliance and co-operation—(clear,
hear). I am not ignorant of the many commercial
terests that call for this proceeding; but if what is re-1
quired were granted, some supi,ose that it would neces-
sarily have the effect of tranquillising the State esta-
blishing and confil ming its independence. The simple
recognition by any neutral Power, if it were not mi,
understood, could have no such effect. I am, therefore,
anxious that exaggerated expectations should not be 'n•
dulged as to what might be the immediate consequences
of recognition. My Honourable and Learned Friend
has put two cases, the possibility of the existence of one
of which I certainly do not feel. He says that South
America must either be considered as one great mass,
and then the contest in any part bears but a very small
proportion to the tranquillity of the whole; or that each
separate State must be considered by itself, and then
only the State in which the contest exists can fairly be
excluded from recognition. I have no sort of difficulty
in saying, that to take South America as a mass, pre-
sents a physical impossibility ; and my Honourable
Friend does not pretend that there is any Government
established which has authority over the whole. That
position will, therefore, certainly be of no assistance to
his argument. The other point of view he has presented
deserves mote consideration r viz. how far we ate to con-
sider each separate State entitled to recognition: into
this part of the argument I do not go at present ; this is a
horn of his dilemma with which I am not, for various
reasons, now prepared to contend. I will state only,
that though I agree with him that we have no pretence
to be so difficult and scrupulous as to insist that A new
Government shall have all the stability of an old otie,.
before we acknowledge its independence, yet we must
act with sonic uegree of caution, belore v.e can give
ourfsat, even if it be understood to amount to no more
than a declaration of opinion. We. are not Wood, tat

deed, to be so sareof Our ground as to be able toanswer
for it that our opinion shall turn out to be true, but we
are bound to take care to have the chances in its favour.
The principle to guide us is this:—that as the whole of
our conduct should be essentially neutral, we ought not
to acknowledge the separate and independent existence
of any Government which is so doubtfully established—
that the mere effect of that acknowledgment shall be
to mix parties again in internal squabbles, if not in
open hostilities—(Hear, hear, hear). My Honourable
and Learned Friend is aware, that before we can
act, information as to matters of fart is necessary ;
we have taken the means to obtain that information,
but we are not yet in possession of that official intel-
ligence which will enable us to arrive at a decision.
Even with regard to the particular State last alluded
, to, Colombia, I know what has passed there enly through
the same channels of information my Hon. Friend seems
to have consulted; I mean the Newspapers. I have seen
much that I think must be rather exaggerated, but I
have yet no authentic record by which I can correct the
public statements. This is all that I think it consistent
with my duty to state to my Hon. and Learned Friend;
to every principle laid down in the Papers lie has read,
and on whiCh he has bestowed commendation, the King's
Government steadfastly adheres (Cheers). The progreis
made since we last had any communication on the sub-
ject, is a proof that we have proceeded in the execution
of those principles, and as my Hon. and Learned Friend
approves of all that is stated in those documents, he
must,l apprehe:►J, approve equally of what subsequently
occurred. The House will judge whether it is expe-
dient, in the present state of affairs, necessa! ily partak-
ing of so much uncertainty, to press the discussion be-
yond the information which I have been able to give,
or whether it would not complicate, and, perhaps, re-
tard rather than accelerate the object in view ?
Mr. T. WILSON rose—

Mr. CANNING said, his Right Honourable Friend
had just reminded him that there was one part of the
speech of his Honourable and Learned Friend which he
had left unanswered. The invitations originally made
to this country by these Colonies had been renewed and
:again declined.
Mr. T. WILSON again rose, and we understood him
to state, that the commercial part of the country, and
his constituents in particular, were interested in the re-
cognition of these Colonies, and the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman had brought forward the subject
with so much ability, that he was entitled to the grati-
tude of all who felt for the independence of South
America.

Mr. ELLICE was of opinion, that the recognition of
the British Government would do more to tranquillise
these States, than a recognition by Spain herself.
Mr. BROUGHAM bore testimony to the able man-
ner in which the Petition had been presented to the
House. The assurance of the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman (Mr. Canning), that the British Government had
refused to join in a Congress, must be highly satisfac-
tory to the House. Ile trusted, that when official jaw-,
mation should be received of the independence of any
of these States, that independence would be formally
recoginzed by the British Government. Such an ac-
knowledgment would involve us in no conflict either
with the mother couhtry or any other State. By the
recognition of that independence alone could the diffi-
culties arising daily in the Courts of Law be removed.
The Petition was then ordered to lie upon the table.
On the motion that it be printed,
Sir J. MACKINTOSH only rose to express his great
satisfaction at the approbation of the Petition by the
Honourable Member for the City of London; the ob-
ject of which Petition was to obtain information on a
subject of such importance. According to official de-
tails laid before the House, it appeared, that the annual
value of the whole exports from this country was about
41,000,0001. of which 17,000,0001. wont to the Conti-
nent of Europe, and 6,000,0001. to the South American
provinces, a greater portion .than went to any of the
European States. He perfectly agreed (with reference
to another part of the question) that the force of the
country ought not to be employed by Government to
effect the recovery of sums of money advanced by Bri-
tish subjects on the faith of foreign securities ; yet, never-
theless, he could not conceive that the application of Bri-
tish capital in speculation: on foreign funds was unlawful.
Mr. Secretary CANNING insisted nn the objection he
had before urged to the claims of those who had lent
their money to the new Governments, and who, in fact,
were not fairly interested in the question of recognition.
Yet, if the Honourable and Learned Gentleman knew as
much as he did, he would be aware that those persons
had been not a little importunate in enforcing their
claims for the interference of the British Government

in favour of these demands in the event of a recogni-
tion—an interference which could in no way be justi-
fied, and least of all could it be due to those who had
advanced their money without any reference to the cir-
cumstance of whether the independence of those States
would be recognized or not.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said that the thiited
States of America had made their recognition of the
independence of those States, with an express declara-
tion that Lliey would adhere to a perfect neutrality in
the struggle between Spain and her colonies.

Sir F BURDETT thought the Right Honourable Gentleman
had given no information to the House. Ile thought the recogni-
tion of the British Government of much more importance to South
America than that of the mother country. The Lord Chancellor
had said, that he did not recognise the independence of the South
American Stater, and that might be the cause of the hesitation of
Ministers. He hoped his Honourable Friend would bring the
subject before the House in a way that would make Ministers
speak out.
Mr. HUME could see no reason why we should not hate
Consuls at St. Domingo, to watch over the interests of our com-
merce.—The Petition was ordered to be printed.
A message from the Lords acquainted the House that tbeir Lord-
ships had agreed to certain BiUs—(for which see Lords Report).
Mr. ELLICE moved for copies or extracts of Returns of any
Report which may have been made by Captain M'Lean, of his Ma-
jesty's ship Bustard, respecting the Settlement at Honduras.—
Ordered.
The same Honourable Member renewed for to-morrow
Lion respecting the conch= of the Governor of Bermuda.

his Mo-