Star.
London, England, 1807-07-28 00:00:00

augmentation df our Regular Fofee: but he con-
tended that the Right Hon. Gentleman was incon-
tinent in Owing; while he objected to any interrup•
tion of his plan, that he would prefer a ballot for an
Army of Reaukve to a ballot for the Militia, Ivl
I•ugh
it moll he evident, that by the former' his. plan would
he interrupted in the greaten ponienle degree;
there realms :—in profecuting that anomalous rnea-
lure, the bounties would he railed to a Much greater
extent than by balloting for the Militia ;. a fecond
rival would be railed to the regular recruiting; the
ball tt fur the Army of Referve, having totally
expired, while the ballot fur the Minna had been
only (*ended, the former mull he newly created
wt ile the litter would need only to be contintn.d-tati
B. fides, were a ballot for the Artily of Referve re-
torted to. frill a ballot mull form be had to limply
the deficiencies in the Militia ; and, at the end t f
the war, the whole of the Militia mull be balloted
for—thus adding frail; impediments to the rentilar
tectuiting, aad to the fuccels of the Right Hon-
Gentlem tae's fyltem. Thus liAd he proved, that the
balloting for the militia was the he-
cattle the believing f, r an Army of Referve would he
a en eater exertion for the country to make ; fecondly,
bec.ufe it would raife the bounties ernirmottfly ;
thirdly, becaule it would materially interfere with
the Right Hon. Gentleman's plan ; and fourthly,
became the Ballot mull proceed at the fame
time. If the Right Hon. Gentleman was lincere in
his with to increafe the regular army, he would be
grateful to his Noble Friend for the propolition that
he had made ; for, by giving to the army 2.1.000
men, thearmy would unquellionably Oh more than
it could tole by the temporary interruption of the
Right Hon. Gentleman's plan. Thole were the moll
manly opponents of the prefent meaftite who con-
demned the propofed ballot altogether. Of there
there were two defcriptinns, fame who thought
that no compulfion Would be ufed, and tome who
thought that the compulfion contained in his Noble
Friend's meafure was infufficient. For his own part he
had always been of opinion, that the idea of keeping
up In large a force as that required in war by fuch a
country as Great Britain, without fupplying fume
part of that force by compulfion, was moll extrava
gant, and in the prefect fituation of Europe, how-
ever fuch an ablurdity might he maintained in then.
retinal difquifiti..ns, he never imagined that it coups
have been praftically recommended. Never could
any country, whatever might be its conllitution, or
however extenfive might be its population, maintain
a force fufficient for its defence, without comptillive
fervice. The Hon. Gentleman who had IA fpoketa
called on Miaillers, if they thought compultion ne-
celtiry, manfully to come for ward, and to prnpofe
a confcription in the fame way as that carried into
effect by the Chief of the French Empire. Now the
confcription eftabliffied by the Ruler of France was
nor, as that Honourable Gentleman ftippofed, an
abfolutely perfonal confcription: Suhllitntes were
allowed to be provided, although certainly they were
not to be procured at fo cheap a rate as in this
country, for he happened to have the opportu•
nity of knowing, that, about two months ago, the
;nice of a fubilitute in France was zoo guineas. If,
however, any one timed that it would be proper
to apply a diet& perfonal coni-ciiption to the Peo-
ple of this country, he had no hefitation in de•
daring (without the moll remote with to under-
rate the emergency in which we were placed), that
the emergency which would nattily Inch a flep, find
not yet arrived. Such as the emergency was, how-
ever, it called for an augmentation of our military
force, and his Majelly's Minillerc, in inquiring whe-
ther that augmentation of force ought to be all domef
tic, or partly difpofable, found the neceflity for the
latter, in the extent of foreign polieffions (wheiher
wifely acquired or not, was not the quellion), to
the care of which they had fucceeded, and for the
prefervatian of which trey were yelp onlible. As to
any derogation from the dignity of the militia, it was
impoffibie that it Ihroild be confidered derogatory
from their dignity to give them peraniffinn to ferve
their country in a more extended fphere. It had been
well laid in the early part of the debate by an Hon.
Colonel, that the zeal with which the privates of a
militia regiment volunteered into the line, would prove
how tar their officers had made them not only fuldiers
to the eye, but foldiers at heat t. He was convinced
that the officers of the militia would be fincerely glad
to give the fpirit of their men an opportunity of its
difplaying itfelf. The Hon. Gentleman who had tan
fiortken, had difclaimed all topics of irritation, and
had declared that he would argue the whole of the
fubjeCt, without reference to points unconneeed with
it, and likely to provoke party feeling. To this de-
claration he had, in a conliderable degree. adhered :
but he would ferinully afk that Hon. Gentleman,
whether he thought that lie was Raring the arguments
fairly, nr that lie was flitting them in a manner likely
to do much good, when, by inference at leaft, he
d ew a contraß between the mealine then under
di:nation for the defence of the country, and other
mealures not under difctiflion, and which he knew,
had his friends continued in office, they would not
have propofed. Was this fair ?—The late Minillers,
in the face of the Parliament and of the Nation, had
abandoned any further profecution of that very fyi
tern, which the Hon. Gentleman now accufed the
prefent Atiminiffration of not pinfuing.
Mr. NV H ITBREAD in explanation, denied hay.
ing aff:rted that the Confcription in France was in-
variably and abfolutely pet finial in its refpative ope
rations.
Mr. HILEY ADDINGTON. in this unexampled
ciifis of increafing danger, hoped he should net be
thought intrufine in aequeaing the indulgence of
the Houle for a law mintite-. While he cordially
concur, ed in the opinion expretTed on a former even-
ing
by his Right Honourable Friend oppofite, that
the vi: d intetesils of 'he country required Come mea-
fore of conlijerable vinotir, he felt that it was pe-
culiarly incumbent on Parliament to be cautions in
the adoption of any particular meafure ; and he fairly
owned chat he had hoped his Noble Friend might
have brought forward a meafure more efficient, more
praCtieable, and more free from thole weighty, and,
as they appeared to Fiat, infuperable objeftions, which
lay againtt the Bill now under the confideration of
the Houle. It was with bee it reltrelance, that lie
()rippled any meafure plargoted by his Majelly's
Mil
tatters, at a time like the prefent, when the advantages
(unanimity were fir apparent; but in this meafure he
could rut give I is concurrence without afac,ifice
of
catty private feeling, arid a comptueude of every

. .
noffilsle duty. His oisjeeinn to the ism, howirer,refled
on the grounds nat only differing from, hut almoll
wholly oppnfite to thole maintained by leis Right Hon.
Friends near him. One of thole Right Hon. Friends
had formerly been always telling the Houfe that
there was no hope of carrying on the war fuccefsfully
without Tome new effort, yet now that dangers were
from day to day accimitilating, he teemed to con-
template them with a heady eye, and declared that
the country might ref on its arms. The plan of his
Right Hon. Friend, (the late Secretary of State for
the War Department) he had ever highly approved,
and he was ct.nvinced that if aelivity had been given
to its proviti Its at a name early conical, it would have
done more than w:iat it had done. But his Right
Honourable Friend had iiimlelf acknowledged that
years would be neceffiry to dtvelnpe the advantages
of his plan; if fo, in fuch a great emergency as the
prerenr, this was an matt fwerahle reafon for adopt•
ling fome other ntea lire of m• r: immediate vignrir—
I Tn filch a meafure far ina :ince, as the Array ' f Re
ferve Aft, aditirted on all tides of the Hatife ro have
been malt deciti ve' v pro it'd; %Pe. and by which th a
regular recruiting had been nirricithed only in the
propnrt inn of a fourteenth. lie hoped therefore that
the effect of any timilar meafure on his Right Hon.
Friend's plan would be very trifling, and here he
thanked his Majelty's Nlinifiers, and he was Pure the
country wo'ild thank them, that they had not only ab•
Rained from °Whiging, the progrefs of that plan, but
had had recourfetothe lliningell meafures tr accelerate
itsfuccefs. Haying faid this much he would come elnfaa
'ID the queQion before the Houfe,and he would confider
it in three views. Firli, whether the difadvantages of
the propofed meafure were likely more than to counter.
balance the advantages of it ; Secondly, whether any
advantages at all, would accrue from it ; and th:rdly,
whether other meafures more efficient might not be
[ adopted ? In the firft place, the greatert difadvantages
`were thole which refult from tampering with the mi-
litia in the very teeth of experience, and more partial
lady of the experience in the year 1804. In the fecnnd
place, with regard to the probable advantages, how-
ever fanguine his Noble Friend was on that fulled,
he bad confiderable denbts. What pallid in 180; ?
17,000 men were allowed to volunteer from the mili-
tia to the line. Only 15,00 n aftnally did volunteer ;
and yet it was now propofed to raife 28.000 men
out of that identical body, not one man of which would
volunteer in iBog ! In the third place, if he were
asked what friperinr meafure he had to propose, he
would anfwer the Army of Refeive All, which in
three months had produced as many men as the Ad-
ditional Force Aft, which had been fnfpended far the
expels purpnie of retorting to it iipnn an emer
gency, and which had great and peculiar advantages
lover the plan of his Noble Friend. He concluded by
lethorting the node and the Country to great exer-
tions. Nothing ought to be left undone while any
thing remained to dn.
Lord H. PETTY Paid, he Ihntild be glad to give
his affent to any plan that fhould promife to afford
fecnrity to the country, but he was afraid that was
not to be expected-from the relent meafure. An
Honourable Friend of his who fisoke early in the de-
bate had very rightly (lazed that, according to the
populatinn of the country, our force was greater than
had ever been known in this, and equal to what it
had been at anyaiane in any other country. At pre
fent it amounted to nearly 400,c00 men : tita,ooo
regulars, 20,000 artillery, from 7o to flo,coo militia,
and 140,00ci feamen, making in the whole between
370 and 380,000 men, a number which fell little
thou of 2 II 7ths of the whole people capable of bear.
ing arms ; and that was the number eftimated as the
proportion of France, which was a country poffeffed
of fewer manufaeures and lets cammerce than this.
If there was a moment in which it was more Jan-
gererous than another to tamper with the Military
fyftern of a country, it was that in which the force
had arrived at its greaten height. The plan of the
Noble Lord went, in the Ma inQance, to unfix and
overturn one of the mcli fettled fyllems of defence
which this country hadever adopted; and he thought,
at Inch a moment as the prefent, the unfeeling and
diforganizing the Militia, was a molt extraordi-
nary meafure, it being the only Conllitutional
mode of defence, and what had by our ancestors
been fo much looked to as the molt certain and
efficacious. If it could be fuppofed that there was
any decline in the Militia, it mutt have arifen from a
want of the Cnnflituti, nal Officers, who wet e enabled
to raife and keep up the fupply ; and this method of
drafting from the Militia, to make it a depot for the
Regular Army, was calculated to increafe that de-
ficiency. This meafure Was certainly, as had been
defcribed by fame Hon. Members, who had Spoken
in the debate, in dire& contrast with that which had
taken place in 1799 ; the Militia Officers were then
told, that there was an Renal neceffity to call out a
portion of the Militia, for foreign fervice ; whereas
at the prefent moment they were told, that when the
country was come to the moment of real defence at
home, the Militia, as Inch, was not to be partied, but
the, mutt be drafted into the Regular Army, in
which they might be able to defend the country. That
part of the Bill, he laid, which contained the feeds
of its own dettration, was that which provided the
bounties, and which woull molt materially injure the
plan of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham), for
keeping up the army to its prefent number. If the
militia man took the prefent bounty of ten guineas,
it might do very well ; but if he waited till the bal-
lot, he might obtain a much higher bounty by enter-
ing into tNe Militia again, and after that might
obtain the Noble Lord's bounty, by entering into the
army. This would go to deltroy the plan of his Right
Hon. Friend, a plan which a Right Hon. Gentle-
man who (poke lately, had defcribed as refleiting on
him the highest honour, and from which if, with the
evidence in his polTeflion, the Noble Lord diffented,
he mutt be of opinion, that experience was a cheat,
and fad a liar. It had been 'July Rated by his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Calcraft), that this plan had railed as
many men as the regular- recruiting and. the Addi-
tional Force Bill put together ; and it was evident,
front the proofs on the Table, that it would prove a
permanent and effeel ual mode of recruiting theregular.
army. This was not a temporary emergency, but what
arose out of the melancholy and important change of
circumllances which had lately taken place on the
Continent. It was notf therefore, to be provided far
by temporary meafures, but would require the aid
of Tisch-as were permanent in their effees ; and when
Ithe Houfe recellefted, that the increafe of the army
laft year, under every difficulty which an entire new

Plan was Hite to; was 22,030 men, theYnnAt
Inok for any immediate further inereaft, hot he con-
tent with that for the prefent ; and whenever ex:gen.
cies might arife, that called for meafirres nt fort nee •
nr greater compulflon, Inch as an aim tl ino
they would then have thofe mean.' of compullfinn to
retort to which wourldbe highly ant wow,
the people would be convinced had not been applied !i'l
Inevitable and imperious necetlity abiAirrel, regni,t !
and demanded it. It had been, ht well knew, the i..•
tension of his Right Hon. F. iend or have Ariile.lhim.
fell of the force of the volunteers, rriOr a few moditi•
cations, which would have rendered them mote efro
cient, and af.er that to have mode ufe ot the train; g
ad, to as, in a °tort ime.• ro make the greaten pa t
of the popnl ttion of the country able to fliir ar nr —a
militate, force of the gee:veil irmortanre. If the Nn.
ble Lord could mike any amendment in the triinlne
et, which had been In much ridiculed by Lirnfelf and
his adherents, he world obtain the thanks of Lit
Right Honourable Friend, a' well a; the than k
the country. It was With c' r.fi levee he Innke,l to
the plan 41,4 Right Hon. Fiend, tor k•epine tor the
force of the corm!. y ; and he cmild not, thcref or, but
fit his face againit the pre'en: meafure. to which he
Would nnrineitiAnahly refit that of the Army of Re-
ferve, becaufe it did not interfere with the fettled
force of the country, whereas this went to unleole,
diforganize, and injure it in are highell degree. The
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) had more
than infinuated, that if Alliance had been feat to
the Continent force months ago, the war might have
thereby been protraded ; brit the Hnitfe mould recoi-
led, that Lnrd Cathcart's fir ft expedition, fent nut
when the Right Honourable Gentlemen, now Mini•
tiers, were fo before, had not been attended with
any beneficial cnnfequences ; not from any want
of (kill in that gallant officer, nor of bravery in the
troops under his command, but from the nature of
the fervice, and the change of circumftances which
had inevitably taken place. How far different hie
fecond expedition might torn our, it was impadible
for him to divine : he could only fay, he wished mn't
fincerely k might prove the very reverie of the other,
and be completely fuccefsful. He infined on it that
the Right Honourable Gentleman had mifrepiefen-
ted the late Miniliry, In fitting they were not defirnus
to conciliate Ireland. The diffnlution of Parliament
and every document (hewed the contrary ; and he
would not do the prefent Minifters fo much injullice,
nor fuppofe them poffelTed of Inch malignant and
weak minds, as to come to the Houfe with Infur-
redion Bills after Infurredion Bills, if they did not
conceive the country of Ireland to be in g flgte of
great and general diffatisfaetion. To conciliate the
Irifh, and to remove the caufe of that diffatisfadion.
had been the chief objet of the. late Miniflers ; and
he conjured the prefent Miaillers and the Houfe, to
paufe on the meafirres now carrying on, with refped
to that part of the United Kingdom, and not contd•
bate to the increafe of difiontents, when unanimity
was fo highly efTential to the defence and preferva-
tints of the country. lie concluded by expreffing his
decided difapprnbati in of the frelh meafure.
Lord HENNIKER faid a few words in fuppott of
the Bill.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did
not think the name of the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Windham) would be tranfmitted, as had been
fail, to future ages with admiration, on account of
the tnilitaryprojeds he had introduced into practice.
The true queftion war, Brit, if the fituation of eel,
country required immediate meafures for the im
provement of our military eitablifhment? and, net'.
if the plan now propofed was heft adapted to Meet
the public exigency? The expedient recently adopted
was not progrellively increaling in its beneficial et.-
leas, as had been (fated : 2089 men were railed in
April, 2125 in May, and only 1864 in June, as ap-
peared by the tall returns. the Additional Pc, ce
Aft, with the ordinary recruiting, the numbers were,
in February 2113, March 2203. in January again
1937, February 2051, March 2098. l'o his appoo
nc fufficient ohjedions had been foggefteJ r.)
the meafure of his Noble Friend, and be tinned it
would receive the fandion of the Houfe.
Lord HENRY PE ['TY explained, that he did
not fry that the other meafueer in contemplation by
the late Minilters for conciliating the people of I-e-
-land, were of the fame defeription with the Cathulie
Officer's Bill.
Mr. WINDHAM, at fo late an hour, woulJ not
enter at length into the lubjed. The proper ;neigh,
was—Did there cult, at this Moment, filch d prelli Ile
emergency, as to make it prudent to difappoint
wholly the objet of the late military improvement..
and to introduce a fyßem of temporary eircer, but of
permanent injury to the fervice ? He thought there
was ro fuch exigency. It was faid by &great man
that "to tax and to pleafe, eras as diffiellt as to lode
and to be wife." Did Minilers refied on this ',bier.
vation; when they propofed to revive the expence of
two millions, or nearly, for the maintenance of the
Volnnteers? They (poke as if the army was dimi•
ailing in numbers. Nut only under the laft, but under
former Adminittrations, it had been augmenting. It
was progreffively 14.1,000 6 z,oco— t 70,000—and
the latett returns were 182,000. The increafe by
recruiting, during the laft two months, was at the
rate of moo° a year. The cafualties were 13,0001
and they were provided fir, and a furplus ot 7000
obtained far the Regular Army. He could fee no
reafon why fuch a permanent advantage thould be
refigned for temporary expedients.
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST was ready to ad-
mit. that the Bill would have the effed of fuddenly
increafing the troops of the line to the extent prof:noted;
but he was apprehenfive, the meafure would go to
depreciate the militia, and imprefs it with a notion
that it could not be depended on as a fit force for the
defence of the country; nor could he approve the
meafure of reballoting for militiamen to a number fo
much greater than thofe Which would be transferred
by the Bill to the regiments of the tine. Betides, he
thought the difpofable force of the country already
fufficiently numerous for any purple connct:d with
the defence of the country.
Lord CASTLEREAGH replied to the arguments
which had been adduced against his WI, and no.-
withitanding he had to lament the null ,rome of
differing from fome military friends rd his upon
this oecafinn, whore opinions deferved to have as..re
weight upon Military fuhjede than his own, Rill he
heard no arguments ti convince him that this Bill
was floe the molt eligible mea(itre, under the esi
geodes of prelim earcutnlt.suces, its adopt. Tht