Star.
London, England, 1815-04-22 00:00:00

‘lbb.
be improper in me to bring the document before Par-
liament in the unratified 'shape in which it is, and
when it is not binding on those Powers who are the
parties to it. This would be taking the sense of
Parliament on a step which could not come properly
before it in relief of our own responsibility. His
Majesty's Ministers, however, take a more correct
and constitutional lir.e. We have obtained the sanc-
tion of Patliament for the adoption of precautionary
measures, but no sanction for any other measures ;
Ira for these we rest on our own responsibility. But
it w.iulti he allowed that it is • always competent to
the Ministe:-5 of the Crown to advise war if they
think preper, sulsiect to their own discretion and re-
sponsibility. His Majesty's Ministers would be act-
in a most ntwoustitutional, and not may in an
1:1,c nis.itntional, ht..: pus;l:anintotts manner, it they
ta:,lcavoured to extort from Parliament in an inipc:-
I, et state o! iaiotrnatitv, :t sanction for those mea.
s,,!es sv:,ich they might ultimately adopt. DiB it any
1-10.itiut able V.i-mber conceives that advice ought to
b.. 2 given to the Crown, not to act in a manner which
conceives is ;ikely to compronliic tl., ::•.utntry, and
lead to mea,ures i;ijorions to our own interest and
the general interest of Europe, it is certainly comp e.
tent to such Hon,urable Gentleman to raise the ques-
tion in the House and to bring it under discussion.
Pte it is not competent to his Majesty's Ministers to
take the initiative of bringing it before Parliament,
and taking the sense of Parliament on imperfect

in'ormation.
Mr. WHITBREAD—The Noble Lord has used
a nee" word, which he seems to have borrowed from
C. ngress ; for I do not recollect to have ever heard
the 'eond initiative made use of in this House befere.
If he will not take the initiative, as he is pleased to
call it, in, this measure, in the choke of difficulties
to which we are reduced from that circumstance,
knowing, as we do, the deep plunge made by his
Ilejesty's Government towards war, without the
question being regularly before it, the House must
pause before it grants any further supply for what
was • called defensive preparations, when it knows
that the Government will convert those measures of
defence into measures of offence—and into a war
which will be prosecuted not only in the most clis
graceful, but the most hopeless manner. My duty
calls on me to propose an adjournment of the House,
till th•• Noble Lord is able to come before us with
the terms et this Treaty ; and I hope Parliament
will not he guilty of such indiscretion. as to suffer
th•• Nol • feed •o proceed until he has plunged the
coentry into a situation without remedy—when he
we'', come before us with the whole weight of his re.
sponsibiley, and which responsibirhy, I hope, the
House will make Lint fecl is not a mere Perliementary
term—(l-!ear, hear),—but a wt rd of real weight;
and that after talking of it, and vapourlifg about it
f'r years, the time is now come when we shall turn
the name into the thing, and make him fed what it
reetiy is. Uieler the r circurnst inces, my proper
cent se is, in a coe tut:on al and P arlie men tary
meneer, to 10-event the Supplies from being granted,
ti t know the situation in which the country is.
Lard CASTLE REAG H—Tne Honourable Gen.
tit'at,lll never find inc disposed to shrink from any
respoeseaeity which I have ineerred. With respect
ro the course of the Honourable Member, I must say
tl.et it certainly does not consist in arming the Exe.
emire Gov-r. ment with those powers which are ne-
ee;seee for it in the present arduous situation of af-
fe'.es. If the Honourable Gentler:tan is no: disposed
to "eoircur in those measures which his Majesty's Go-
veertmoit have thought advisable in the present situa-
tien or the country, it is not on the subject of Supp:y
Ceti he ought to raise the question—he ought to raise
it. on its own merito7(lLer, hear, frran the Alit:Lae.
vial tide.)—It the Honourable Gentleman is deter-
mined to persist in this cow se, it is a proof that he
s rinks from the merits of the question—(Hear, hear,
t; .n the ofm:iii3n.) repeat it again— it is a proof
of his shrieking freen the merits of the question.
weile I, on the contrary, to-night have afforded him
eery lecility for bringing the question forward in a
re groat mat-.ter. Every person must be convinced
th it the Treaty cannot be laid before the House in its
eeesent state by his Majesty's Ministers, without their
7kr:%:lng its a mariner inconsistent with the duty which
tee e. we to their country ; and I consider, therefore,
the reeesure which the Honourable Gentleman has
c: 'seen to pursue, with the view of obstructing his,
• ....I's Government, as only granting with a bad
wee.- what must at last be granted, and tendering
Viet sttesigth which the House have committed to the
uradequete ti its object. If the Honourable
Gyalernan is sincere in the intention which he has an-
'lettuce-1 of impeaching me, and if he wishes at the
seine time to strengthen the Executive, let him bring
the question forward on its own merits; but let 'bin)
riot make this a pretext for weekenipg the arms of
the Executive Government in the arduous crisis in
which the country is at present placed— (Loud cheer
tivi. on the Miaisterial tide of Me HoFse.)
Mr. WHITBREAP—Wireo I granted the sup-
Ii ;es I understood from the Noble Lord that there
wa, still an alternative left ; and though I told some
tit 'My friends neer me that they would soon very
likely and themselves duped, still I had the autho-
rity of the N ..ble Lord and the Chancellor of the El-
chequer that there was an alternative of peace or
esefi. But now I learn that there is no longer an
alternative ; and that if I gave them any further sup-
plies, it cannot be for defence but for offence, and in
a reuse the most desperate and hopeless. To the
Ministers who could make this country a party to
such a Treaty, even after a vote for strengthening
the h Ands of Government—after what I hear of then
condect, 1 can no longer, coosistattly With my duty,
eatto the supplies—Viral., hear.) The Noble Lord
has talked of the facility which he has givep us.—
'What facility has he given us ? The allowing us to
debate on a Treaty which he says is imperfectly before
us. Will the Noble Lord tell us the nature of the
Treaty r He has old us already thit the one we
heee seen is substantially inaccurate—send thus we
61)411 go to a discOssion, trusting to be informed, in
the course cif. the delerte, what is the difference be-.
tween the Treaty Which we have seen, ;ad the real
one. And this is what he calls affording us facility
He does me the additional favour to tell me how I
ought to cOndUct myself as a Member of Parliament.
The po'hlic are better judges of my conduct than I
beit'sure I am, whatever their Opinion may be,
I will tiot go to tire Noble. Lord for advice;' peel
these wounds, and convinced as I an 2, thick the line