Star.
London, England, 1824-05-19 00:00:00

SILK TRADE BILL.

The Earl of LAUDERDALE then moved the com-
mittal of the Bill to repeal the Spitalfields Acts.
The Earl of HA RROWBY expressed his surprise at.
finding the Noble Earl bring forward this Bill. He
Wai at a loss to know what induced him to adopt a
measure this year u hich the House rejected last year.
1-le understood that a Noble Lord, who had changed his
opinion since last year, supposed the late measure to
open the silk trade had retideted the Bill then before
the House necessary. He could not see how it was
necessary to interfere with the present condition of the
weavers, who wete settled, and in no want of employ-
, mein, under the law as it stood. The Noble Earl had
said many had changed their opinions, but really, with-
out meaning any disrespect to the Noble Earl, he
thought it too much for an individual to say, after read-
ing the Petition, that their opinions had been changed.
The uniform quiet and loyalty of the class he had men-
tioned entitled them to the best consideration the House
could give their case, and as one in that assembly, he
could not see the necessity for supporting the
I he Noble Earl adverted to disturbances in the Metro-
polis, and observed that on all occasions this class of

manufacturershad strewn the greatest loyalty,and respect I
for public order. If it should he true that in consequence
of taking restrictions off the trade, the mass of manu-
facturers. in London would be decreased, that circum-
stance would not interfere with public- tranquillity.
The Noble Eatl, in his opinion, had come forward in
support of free trade, to place this Metropolis in a state
of discontent and disorder. He concluded by moving
that the Bill be committed this day months.
The Eati of LAUDERDI\ sail, the Noble Earl
had charged him with wishing to change the decision
the House came to last year. The fact was, he was
one who stood forward to support the proceediags
last year. The Noble Lord was mistaken in supposing
he wished to change the decision of the House. The
Noble Lord himself was an advocate for changing the
opinion of the House. It was ell known that the
opinion of the Committee and the House was in favour
of the Bill. _

The Earl of HARROWBY asked whether the Noble
Earl did not consent to separate the Bill of last year?
The Earl of LAUDERDALE admitted that he was
anxious, by that separation, to bring the Bill into ope-
ration in the following year. The Noble Earl con•
tended, that it would be advantageous to the public to
go into a Committee on the Bill.
The Earl of WESTMORELAND considered the
weavers entitled to some consideration. The trade was
flourishing►. They were ready to submit to the JI igis-
trates, and he asked the House whether it mts propel' to
risk the public peace by producing kiicontent and dis-
satisfaction among a body of persons so numerous and
respectable?—The House then divided,

For the Committee - -
I:01'de Amendment - - - -

ALjority

The Bill then went-Through the Committee, and having been re-
ported, was ordered to be read a third time o❑ Friday.
The Passage Vessels Regulation, and the Law Stamps Bills,
passed through Committees, and were reported.—Adjourned.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The Kent Fire Insurance Company's Bill was read a third time,
and passed. The object of the Bill kto enable the Company to sue
and be sued in the name of their Secretary.
The Southwark Gas Light Bill was read a third time and passed.
Petitions were presented from various places in favour of the Gas
Light Bill against the South London and St. Catherine's Dock
Bills; from the Pawnbrokers of London and Westminster, praying
to be heard by Counsel against the Equitable Loan Bill; against
the Beer Bill ; for an alteration in the Duties on Scotch Spirits ;
against the Oil Gas Bill ; and from several persons in Edinburgh,
praying to be relieved from certain disabilities under which they
laboured, from religious principles, and that they might be allowed
the liberty of free discussion.
Sir J. YORKE said he held in his band a Petition against a
clause contained in the Saving Banks Bill. Ineergbt into the house
by his Right Honourable Relative, the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. It would be well were those who are the guardians of the
public purse to consider what would be the situation of Friendly
Societies if the Bill was so pass with this clause in it. The Savings
Banks, or Benefit Societies system, was originated in 1772, by a
worthy individual, lately deceased, the Cursitor Baron of the Ex-
chequer. It was afterwards taken up by the late Mr. George Rose,
and he was followed by the present honourable Member for Exe-
ter, who, In 1819, brought in a Bill on the subject ; and now his
Right Honourable Friend had brought in another Bill on the sub-
ject. 'The prevent Petition was presented on behalf of certain Be-
nefit Societies in the Cities of London and Westminster, and the
clause of which they complained was that by which the deposits of
Societies were copfined to 250/. instead of 500/. as was allowed by
former Bills.—The Petition was brought up, read, and ordered to
be printed. •
Mr. ELLICE wished now to give notice, that on the Report of
the Bonded Wheat sill; or on the third reading, he should move a
clause to exempt Canadian wheat, of which there were about 50,000
quarters in bond, from the operation of this Bill.
Sir J. NEWPORT wished to put a question to a Right Hon.
Baronet, whether or not there were in his hands any documents
which stated, that at any former period there had barn a fund,
either in money or in land, in the diocese of Derry, which could
have been made available for the repair of the Cathedral ?
Sir G. HILL said it was certainly true that some documents had,
since he withdrew his Bill, been forwarded to him from the City of
Derry, front which it appeared that formerly there had been a fund
available for the purpose of repairs of the Cathedral; whether it
was available for that purpose or not, at present, he could not tell.
At the time be made his statement, he certainly believed there was
no other fund from which to raise a sum for the repairs of this
building, but by an assessment.

Sir J. K LIV.PORT gave notice that he would, on an early day,
move for the production of those documents.
On the ni.:ion of the CHANCELLOR of the EicirE.
OVER, the iloti,o resolved itself into a Committee on
the Bill. in which t,onie conversation took place on the
proptiety of preventing wealthy individuals and public
bodies from placing their money in Savings' Banks. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer wished a stop put to the
practice, but objected to giving the measure a retrospec-
tive operation.
The blanks were then filled up, and the several clauses agreed to.
The I louse resumed, the Report was received, and ordered to be
taken into further consideration on Monday. The Bill, as amended,
to b: printed.
Inc' House went into a Committee on the Acts relating.to Scotch
rar oatial Stipendv.
'lie CI 1 A NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated
the arrangement formerly made to raise the low stipends
of the Clergy in Scotland to have proved insufficient.
He proposed that, instead of adhering to the valuation
made in 1810, that a new valuation should take place
once in every seven years. The sum formerly granted
by Parliament to increase the stipends of the Clergy,
was 10,000/. lie meant to propose an additional vote
of 2,0001. This, however, would not be wholly an ad-
ditional expense to the Public, as three sums of 10,000/.
each had been granted in different years for a purpose
to which k had not been practicable to apply them,
and these he proposed to take towards covering the new
grant. The Right lion. Gentleman moved several re-
solutions to this effect, which were agreed to.
The House resumed, and the Report of the Committee was or-
dered to be received to-morrow.
The Assessed Taxes Bill went through a Committee.—ln the
Committee,

Mt. HUME complained of the permitting large balances to be
left in the bands of the collectors. In the Kensington district alone
there was a perpetual balance or 95,0001.
Mr. lIERRIES admitted that the subject called for considera-
tion. It was not, however, under the controul of the Treasury,
and must form a distinct measure upon which Parliament would
act, and could scarcely be attended to with effect this Session.
Mr. IIUME did not think the Session should be allowed to pass
without the evil being remedied.
After a few words from Mr. T. Wit.sobt, Mr. C. PILHAM, Mr.
Alderman Woos), Mr. Hrttaiss, Mr. Monos and Mr. 13111,11 yr, re-
lative to the Duty on Shop Windows,
Mr. HUME said, that the annual publication of the assessments
would be of considerable service, as it would afford the means of
detecting unfair assessments.

The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be con-
sidered on Friday.
Mr. HUME moved, 1. " That there should be laid before the
House an Abstract of the number of the resident and non-resident
Incumbents in each county in Ireland, according to the dior,...an
returns in the years 1822 and 1E33;" and 2. " for all. turn of the
number of Parishes and Benelices in the gift of the 11i,ho1.s of the
several dioceses—of the Crown—of the Universities—of the Lay
I'roprietors, with the number of Churches and Endowments."—
Both motions were agreed to.
Mr. LEIGH obtained leave to bring in a Bill to secure the better
examination of witnesses in the Court of Exchequer, and to enable
the Court to receive affidavits sworn in Scotland or Ireland.
Mr. GOULBUIIN brought up a return of the resident aHd non-
resident Incumbents in Waterford and Lismore.—Laid ou the table.

THE LEATHER TAX.
Mr. CALCRAFT rose to bring forward his motion
for the repeal of this Tax. His intention was to con
cluie by moving that all the Duties on Luther shout;

cease from and after the sth of July, i8?.5. Ile should
do this because he considered it the most unproluoit4
and inexpedient of any in our list of taxes. Tith tax
produced to the Exchequer only a sum of 300,0,,y ..
but, at the same time, it took out of the pocket of the
public above 900,000/. owing to the delays and losses.
occasioned by the Excise regulations at ising out of the
tax. One reason for the loss to the public WAS, that by
the Excise regulations two trades, which onght to he
carrieJ on together, were keot separate; the currier
and the tanner. The fact being, that the currier dared
not trust the skin, nor the tanner the leather, after it
was tanned. Ile could scarcely express the a,trmish-
ment he felt at discover;ng that there was at present a
Bill in the House for extending the English regulations
to I. eland, where the slum produced by the ta! W. 15 not
more than 40;0001. Yet for this paltry sum was Ire•
land to be buithened with the expenses of this system►
and he could not refrain from censuring Gentlemen en
the other side of the House, who had the power wpm_
tect Ireland from this additional burthen. lle did nne
expect to meet with general support in this measure,
because he had been asked by several friends, is If wp
take off this duty will you insure us that the price r/
Leather shall fall?" Ife would not undertake to insure
any such fall—(Cries of Ilear,he,lo. But though 1::r
price might not fall immediately, he was persuaded t:•:;•
the rest; fictions being removed with this remaining part
of the duty, the commodity would ultimately fall,
the public get their shoes, harness, &c. cheaper. Be
wou:1 detain the House no longer than to move t -
leave to bring in a Bill to put an end to the Leather T
from the 2.ith of dilly, 1825. . _

Sir R. FERGUSON seconded the motion.

Mr. CURI'EI,B suppoited it. The Tax now was cer.
wilily not very heavy ; but the restrictions being re-
tained did :blithe mischief.

Mr. LEYCESTER also supported the motion.
present impositions and restrictions were highly
riots to trade. This was a tax highly impolitic, it fell 1;e-
-culiarly hard on those who ought to be peculiarly sparco,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob.
set ved that his trasons generally against the motion, he
could state briefly. It had be.. his Int since he had beer.
in office to propose the reduction of taxes to the amount
tour millions and a half stn ling, and it was natural
to suppose that among the various objects that had pre-
sented themselves to his mind lot the operation of tl.s
reduction, leather had been one. I .e should be able
to go on in repealing Taxes, ~rcra upon CGII-.
sumption, or affecting trade, tii •t at it was de.
sirablie they should go, he had n . in in saying
that this was not the first which he ei propose to
the House to deal with. He did not mean ta defend it
upon principle. He was aware that the objection
to it was not to the amount, but the re sislions upon
trade which it imposed. It could net -sever, be
levied without those restrictions. But 1.. • • were a
great many articles open to the same tvi 6 which
ought to receive the attention of Parliarneht en the
means of reducing taxation were in then haia-
this. The English distillery question ntra lit sdote
it. The same might be said of tobacco, meal w.. ch
duty of 1600 per cent. was levied, and which let to a
great deal of smuggling. In short, if he conid now
say, that the £350,000 could be reduced next year, the
House would act most improvidently in agreeing to
the repeal of the leather tax. The coal tax was also
one upon which there was a general feeling in favour
of a repeal. To agree to the !notion, therefore, wouls
be tying up their hands most inconveniently, and pre•
vent their looking at many questions which they
be most anxious to do next year. The Honourahle
Gentleman was displeased at the restrictions applied to
England being extended to Ireland. But there was All
absolute necessity fur this, if they would nut have the
tax entirely evaded. The character and ca edit of Irish
leather required that they should be placed under the
same restrictions as prevailed in England. He had-al-
ways told the curriers that the only way to protect the
trade was to retain the tax. As he would not, there-
ft); e, pledge liiieself to the repeal of this tar, he must
oppose the motion.
Lord ALTHORP said, by taking off the whole of
' the 'fax, he believed the price of the commodity would
decrease, and he should therefore support the motion.
Sir J. NEWPORT adverted to the restrictions as ap-
plied to Ireland, which the Chu cellor of the Exchequer
had only defended as the least of two evils. While the
article was bad, there was a diminished amount of re-
venue. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer
would not carry into effect in Ireland the separation of
the trades of tanner and currier, but allow things to re-
vert to the state in which they were before the Union.
Mr. L. M A BER LY thought a substitute might easily
be found for the Tax by putting it on Malt only, by
which a considerable saving would accrue to the Reve-
nue. As a Tax on necessities it ought to be repealed.
Sir J. YORKE said that he entered the House pre-
pared to vote against the motion, but he had changed
his mind during the debate. All the speakers were, its
fact, at the other side, and for the repeal—(A
Ilis Right Honourable Friend (th: Chancellor of the
Exchequer) had compared leather whit tobacco; he
must complain of the comparison of an article Which
they all wanted, and must all use, with one like to-
bacco, which was a poison to the stomach, the lung
and the nasal organs—(A laugh.)—The whole Leathet
Tax ought, be now saw, to be taken off. What had
been done when the partial reduction took place
one class in trade for instance, with u born they is e• e all
conversant—he meant schoolmasters—(A laugh).—Let
any Gentleman who had his son at Eton, Harrow. or
Westminster, say, if a fractional rat t of .his bill was
taken off by a partial reduction cf taxes; not x bit—the
price wan still the same. Seeing, therefore, that cot of
900,0001. paid by the people, only 300,000/. went into
the Treasury, it was time, lie thought, to take off such
a Tax----(llear, hear.)
Sir G. ROBINSON supported the motion, believing
the Tax to be an impolitic one.
Mr. Secretary CANNING thought it somewhat hard
on his Right Honourable Friend, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, that he should be called upon to shew not
only that every tax which he thought it expedient to
maintain was not peculiarly oppressive, but that there
was something in it peculiarly amiable and lovely—
(if laugh). His Right honourable Friend was called
upon to shew, not that the continuance of a tax might
be necessary in a financial point of view, but th-at its. as
eminently delightful that such a tax should subsist
among the institutions of the country. After his Right
Honourable Friend had laid before the House his view
of the finances of the country, and that view had re-
.ceived the sanction of Parliament, it was somewhat u
unless the Hotise were disposed to rescind its form,:
decisions, to call upon his Right Honourable Ft lend to
remit, in addition to all the reductions he hrd pr '-
posed, any tax which any Honourable Mensher

consider peculiarly inconvenient or oppressive. This
was the fourth or fifth notice of this kind which had
been made, after the whole finances of the country
had been brought under the consideration of the House.
The repeal of the Window Tax, of the House Tax, of
the whole of the Assessed Taxes, and of the Tax on
Cats, had in this way been successively recommended
to the House. His Right Honourable Ftiend had can.
didly stated that he did not defend this tax on principle;
he was not responsible for its imposition, and he wou'd
be happy to have an opportunity of proposing its repeal,
whenever the time might arrive when he could do so
consistently with considerations of paramount import.
ante. He confessed that he had felt some little dip-
ctilty in fallowing the exact line of argument which
had been taken by his Honourable and gallant Friend
(Sir J. ke) who bad been convinced in the course
of this debate, and who supported the present motion,
partly from his horror of tobacco, and partly from his
h.ve of cheap learning—(A laugh). His Right Ho-
nourable Friend had declared that he would rather
re( eel the tax on tobacco, than the tax on leather ;
not from any particular affection whiclrhe personally
entertained for mundungus, for he was not aware
that any part of his Right Honourable Friend's person
was polluted by that vegetable in the way his Honour-
able and gallant Friend had described—( laugh)—but
because the tax on that article was greatly dispropor-
tioned to the value of the commodity, and consequently
operated ass great encouragement to smuggling. His
Honourable and gallant Friend had argued that the tax
on Leather ought to be repealed, because the price of
education at Eton and Westminster had not been re-
duced in proportion to other reductions. He did nor
at fit st apprehend the exact scope of his Honourable and
gallant Friend's argument; but he believed he must
tare meant, that though all were agreed as to the ex-
pediency of diffusing education, and making it as cheap
as possibly—though that object had been in a great de-
gree promoted by Committees of that House, and Com-
irosions--though the contents of books had conse-
quently become cheaper, the binding had nut been re.
thiced in the same proportion—(2l larch).
Mr. CA LCR.A.FT replied.

Strangers were then ordered to withdraw for a division. The
rn:nbers were—For the motion, 55--Against it, 71—Majority
s;;an.3t the motion, 16.