Star.
London, England, 1802-03-16 00:00:00

U.,:0.. operated as a rearaint on the exportation
of fpirits from Ireland to this Country ; and
therefore, if Corn was brought here in the Ihape
of Sriritsjo any amcunt, the elle& was the fame,
at leatt as to the quantity of grain ufed in filch
amount, as if it came in kind. Under this im.
preilion of the fubjea, what he wiffied and hoped
to be adopted at prefent was, that of railing the
export price, fo as to enable the owher in Ireland
to lend, and this part of the United Kingdom to
receive from thence, grain, (after fixing the price
at which it may be allowed to be exported,) in like
manner as from any other part of the Continent
of Europe. The lowelt price at which, at pre-
fent, Corn could be received into this country was,
Wheat 545. Barley 28s. and Oats 235. per quar-
ter. He mould hope that the Houle would be of
opinion it would be an encouragement to cultiva-
tion in Ireland, and by fuch means, an advantage
to the people at large there, as well as here, to en-
able one part of the Empire to obtain from the
other—that was, to enable the Empire to obtain
of a part of Well the means of fubfiflence with
more facility ; for this purpofe he thought the bet-
ter courfe would be to raife the price at which it
than be allowable to export from Ireland to Eng-
land grain of all denominations. The principle
on which he propofed this had been already car-
ried into effeft for the benefit of a refpeitable,
and indeed valuable body of men in this country,
the Diftillers. The trade of the Well India Mer-
chants, a valuable confederation alfo, called for
the adoption of this meafure, and therefore the
Houfe would be defirous of adopting it; but,
above all, he would fay, (for it was a matter of
the higheft importance,) to enable Great Britain
to traffic with herfelf in the article of corn, for to
traffic with Ireland now was to traffic with her-
felt; inftead of rcforting to any market the may
find on the Continent ; for, at prefent, intlead of
deriving our fupply from Ireland, and, by fuch
means, encouraging cultivation there, by which
the advantage would be reciprocal ; to Great Bri•
tails the advantage- would be 'confiderable, by
having her grain from Ireland—to Ireland the
advantage would be alfo confiderable, by the en-
couragement it would give to cultivation, whereas
the prefent practice of importing from the diffe-
rent markets on the Continent was a lots to both—
dead lots to the Empire at large.—Thefe were
the confiderations which had induced him to think
of referring the matter for difcuffion, and he had
no doubt it would receive from a Committee the
attention it required ; if it Ihould, as he hoped it
fhould, be the pleafure of the Honfe to appoint a
Committee for that purpofe.—lt was not for him
to fay what might be the refult of the labour of
that Committee, nor to anticipate what might af-
terwards be the determination of the Houle—he
had only at prefent to fuhmit it as a matter worthy
of inveffigation, and, therefore, he Ihould now
move, " That a Committee be appointed .to
confider of the State of the Corn Trade between
Great Britain and Ireland, and to report the
fame, with their obfervations thereupon, to the
Honfe."

Mr. Form raid, he rote for the purpofe,
of delaring his approbation of the meafure now
propored by the Right Hon. Gentleman who had
jolt fpoken. There was no man in England who
had more Readily (leered through every difficulty
which lay in the way of the perfc& Union between
Great Britain and Ireland, nor any better quali-
fied to carry the fpirit of that Ad into ace, than
the Right Hon. Gentleman who (poke 1011. The
matter now before the Houfe, was of very im-
portant confederation ; but it was not all that ought
to be confidered, even under this head : there were
many other topics extremely worthy the attention
of the Houfe--it appeared to him to be the true
interta of the Empire at large; to bring the two
parts of the kingdom into one, and make them
as if they were only two counties, in regard to
the trade in Corn, at leak He had the more
pleafure in feconding this motion, fine on Thurf-
day he intended to give notice of a Motion for the
appointment of a Committee to inquire into the
Corn Laws of Ireland, and to take a view of the
Imports from thence into this country, for the
purpofe of extending it. However, he did not
chafe to enter on that butlnefs until the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer appeared in the Houle, but
when he found it was intended to be taken up by
that Right Hon. Gentleman, he thought that, as
well as the regulation of the Trade in general, was
in the hell hands, and therefore he gave the matter
.up to that Right liori. Gentleman. He approved
entirely of this proceeding, and he thought he could
anfwer for =lreland, that it was a general with
there that fuch a meafure as this fliould be adopted.
He believed it was a fincere with in Ireland, that
every obllacle to the plan of making the two parts
of the Kingdom one, in refpeet of this Trade,
thould be removed; that it Mould be made as it
were a mere coaltini trade. However, while he
raid this, and when he underftood that Ireland
thould, in general, be of this opinion, he could not
let flip this opportunity of obferving, that the laws
of Ireland, upon this fubjeß, had continued uni-
form from the year 1784. By the Bill which then
pall, upon this rubjeft, Ireland was bound to allow
the Expoi tation of its Corn from thence into this
country, leaving it to this country to fix the price
at which that k.xportation timid take place. The
Britifb Parliament had the power of fixing the
price, and Ireland was bound to allow the Expor-
tation accordingly. That law had been continued
now for leventeen years in force, and it bad always
been approved of, and, therefore, he believed that
the mealure now propofed would meet general con.
curreuce in Ireland. Havingf Paid this, he thought
it might not he improper to übmit,• further, whe-
ther it might not be better to enlarge the power of
the Committee, for the appointment of which the
Right Hon. Gentleman had jull moved, and to in-
Aral it to take into confideration the Corn Laws
at large? The Corn Laws of Ireland had the ad-
vantage of thofe of this country; and under thole
Laws, the Agriculture of Ireland had greatly
thriven, fo much fo, as to have more Corn than it
could life, except for the IA feafon or two; but
that was indeed chiefly owing to the failure of the
growth of potatoes, the feareity of which increafed
ear Arvin • hsiei it now been for the

tailor. of the crop of potatnet, theft would have
been no neceillty for impoi Ling any Corn into Ire.
land. He was lorry to fay, that, in cOnfiJering
the_cafe of this country, the laws in thi, it efixa,
bad been inferior in policy to thoCe of Ire, Intl, for
ever fince the year a 767, and down almoll to the
prefent day, the Laws of Great Britain had been
almoll the reverfe of the Laws of Ireland, and
certainly unwife, for it had bee,i a continued fyi:
tern of alterations. An endeavour femetimes to
regulate the trade of the Corn Faaor, at others
to regulate, capricionfly, the trade of exportation,
at others importation, the whole of it antUng up
a difcouraging uncertainty, and therefore it was
no wonder the agriculture of the country declined
under the imprellon of it. He thould not, now,
expatiate upon all the defeds of (itch a fyflem,
nor make a laborious comparifon between it, and
that which was adopted in Ireland; there was one
point, however, which he could not pafs over un-
noticed: in Ireland, when the regulation was made
upon this article, it was made to operate uniform.
ly on the whole of the country. Here we had
fixteen diftrias, and chitin& regulations to each,
fo that we might be exporting Corn at one part
of the Kingdom, while we were importing it at
another, the evils of which were many : one of
them was, that we never could haie a true crite-
rion to guide us for general purpnfes, which ought
to be the end of Legiflation. He f-aisl, therefore,
in this cafe, there thould be a free participation be-
tween the two countries; we fhould make one
Ilandard for both. Fix the regulation of import
or expert by a price taken from an average of the
two parti ofthe United Kingdom. We fhould join
the whole together, and regulate the whole as of
one common Kingdom, and one common cattle in
one Kingdom : for which purpofe it would be ne-
ceffary for us to look, at large, into the whole
fubjea, and lay down one general fyflem for both
parts of the United Kingdom. Ireland (hould be
taught that the would be (ale in opening her
trade to this country, and we (hould be fecured
here againft any apprehenfion of inconvenience
from that fpecies of encouragement to Ireland.—
When this fyftem was well digefled, and put in
pra.aice, this country would never want Grain
while Ireland had any to fend here.
Mr. VANDELIUR Paid, that this queftion ap-
peared to him to be one of the moll delicate that
could be brought forward in Parliament, becaufe
it went to make an alteration in a fyftetn of Laws
under which Ireland bad gained great advantages
to her agriculture, and thcfe advantages the had
been in the enjoyment of for the lag fixteen years.
Under this code of laws the agriculture of Ire-
land had flourithed ; and confidering this, he, as
a native of that country, fhould have Come appre.
henfions of danger to its interefts, if he had not
obferved the Right Hon. Gentleman who fpoke
lag approving of it ; he, from his talents and ex
perience, was defcrvedly high itathe eftimation of
his countrymen, and particularly in knowledge of
Trade, fo that he was confident the Gentlemen of
Ireland would be fatisfied with this meafure, fince
he approved of it ; but independent of this confi-
dence which he had in that Right Hon. Gentleman's
abilities and integrity, he had alledged very good
reafons for his opinion to-night upon this fubjea,
and he was glad to adopt the meafure from thole
reafons ; and that the more particularly, as he had
recommended the plan of reviling the whole of the
Corn Laws, and making one general fyflem for
both parts of the United Kingdom.—Having ex
patiated on the advantages which Ireland, at
prefect, cies by the Laws as they (land, by
way of flawing the fincerity which the mutt have
in this meafure by affenting to it, he conchtded
with approving of every thing which was Paid
to-night by the Right Honourable Gentleman
who fpoke laft. The queflion was then put.
The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE4VER laid.
I he was confident the Houle would do him the
juflice to recollea, that, before the recefs, be gave
notice to the Houle of his intention (an intention
which was delayed from a cattle probably within I
the knpwledge of the Houle) to bring forward a
motion on this fubjea, defcribing it at that time to
ha,e for its °Neel, " a regulation of the Curn
Trade of Great Britain and Ireland."—lt was
therefore not extraordinary, that he fhould have
wifhed the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fofter)i
to abtlain from bringing forward this fubjea ; and
this was what, he could not help (toting. He had
pledged himfelf to bring the lubjea forward, and
he was bound to redeem himfelt with the Houfe
upon that pledge, not that he was not fully aware
of the advantages which the fubjea would de.
rive from being brought forward by that Right
Hon. Gentleman, but when he made the pledge
he had fpoken of to the Houfe, that Right Hon.
Gentleman had not a feat in it. However, what
he had laid to-night was deferving of great con-
fideration, although it appeared to him to be
inexpedient to adopt it at prefent. Thi. Right
Honourable Gentleman is defirous, raid Mr. Ad-
dington, and I am glad he is, that all difline-
tions (hould be done away .in trade, between the
two branches of the United Kingdom. That
every thing that is harfh, or may appear invidious,
or injurious, thould be done away, is my with, as
well as that of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and
mull, indeed, be the with of us all ; but I think
it is not poffible for us to adopt the principle
laid down by the. Right Hon. Gentleman, to its
full extent, until we know the opinion of the Com-
mittee upon the fubjea, and whether, after the
Committee thall have concluded its labours, the
Houfe, after having had the advantage of fuch la-
bour will be of opinion that the whole of this trade
(bould be laid opon—lt was then, he raid, the oh-
foliations of the Right Hon. Gentleman would
come properly under the confederation of the
Houfe. However, if any thing of this fort (hold
occur to the Committee as a necellary meafure,
they, would have power to report from time to
time ; and if it fbould be necefrary, their ower
might be enlarged, and according to the informa-
tion which the Houle might receive, and the im,
prellion which it might make on the Houfe, they
might enlarge the fphere of the inquiry of the
Committee, and if that thould appear to be the
with of the Houfe at any time, it Ihould meet with
no oppofition from him ; but, at prelim, be could

nrtennear in feting the expediency cf carryinrtnr
inquiry th the extent recommended bi the *Uzi..
Hen. Centletnan.

Yiosrta laid, his objea was, that the ports
of Ireland (hould be opened fo as to enable it to
'fend Corn into this country. As to the power (
the Committee being enlarged, he thought that
efential, and he hoped it would take place. The
Corn Laws of Ireland had fatisfied the people or
Ireland. The Corn Laws of England had not
fatisSed the -people of England, as was evident
by tho.Legifiature altering them continually. 11
the fyilem which we were now to adopt, was c.
wife one, the price of the market in Ireland would
go into the computation with that of England, and
the reftraint thould be made a joint rearaint, over
ating alike on both countries. Without this
ge-
neral policy, applying equally to both England
and Ireland, lie did not fee how the matter cot 44
be at all fettled to advantage. He underftood ti,i.t
the Committee might call, from time to time, h,
an enlargement of power, and the Houfe might
grant it ; but whether they did or not, he was per•
waded that nothing fhort of what he had Rated,
would be adequate to the purpofe.
The CHANCELLOR of the Ercuagysit
at prefent, the fubjeft to be confined to the Mo-
tion.

Sir W. PULTENEY faid, he was very glad that
Gentlemen Teemed to feel fome doubt whether the
Corn Laws of England were what they ought to
be ? that they were not was evident, from the
number of Atls of Parliament made from time to
time upon that fubjed, which proved that the
matter had not been well underftood, for if the
fubjed had been clearly comprehended at firll, the
Law might have been fo made as to require no al-
teration, or at kali but little alteration : initead
of that, there had been a continual variation iu
the Law on this fubjed ; a thing mach to be la-
mented : for, among many evils, it was a great
detriment to agriculture in England.—We knew,
that from the time of King William, there was no
change in the Corn Laws until the year 1757—
when there was an alarm of Scarcity, and our
Corn Laws were thrown open.—This had intro-
duced afterwards a praFtice of endeavonring, from
time to time, to make provifions, according to
fomc temporary exigency, which introduced into
the Law an uncertainty th.it had a grievous effect;
for the Farmer never knew exaftly what to do,
that is, he knew not what to look forward to as
the Law to guide him. He was very glad the
Country had been called upon to oblerve the con-
trail between the laws of England and of Ireland
in this particular. The matter should be ,looked
into ; and he hoped it would not be loft fight of ;
and he laid this, not for the fake of England only,
but for the fake of Ireland alfo. Both might be-
nefit by this inquiry; and he was lure it was highly
necelfary that the whole of our Corn Law; (110111 d
be reviewed.

Mr. WILBIRFORCE ohferved, that as the Cora•
mittee might report from time to time, as Elated
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, nothing far-
ther need be done now than to agree to the appoint-
ment of a Committee. And if it should appear
to be neceffary, the importation of Corn from Ire-
land into this Country, 'night take place without
delay, and that prior to any general. (*Own being
adopted to regulate this Trade between the two
Countries.

Lord HAWKESSURY obferved, that he fhould not
have offered himfelf to the notice of the Houfe up.
on the prefent occaiion, if it had not been for a
tingle ohfervation of a Right Hon. Gentleman,
, (Mr. Porter), who had taken a part in this debate,
and which, if not anfwered, might leave an im.
preffiun he fhould be lorry fcr. fliere was no dif-
ference of opinion, as he underftood, on the Mo.
tion. It was expedient, in the &ft initance, to ap-
point a Committee to inquire into thit Law, and
that fhould precede the inquiry of how far it would
be wife to open the general Corn Trade between
Great Britain and Ireland ? But this he was ready
to admit beforehand, that the general Law of the
Empire, upon this fuhjed, was fuch as to require
revition. Without Paying what the remedy fhould
be, he was ready to admit, that there ought to be
a general plan for the purpofe of preventing occa-
fronal Ads of Parliament, upon fome temporary,
or perhaps, local inconvenience ; for fuch interfe-
rences of the Lcgiflaturc had been proved, by ex-
perience, to be injurious to the general interefts of
the Public. But to fay this, was not the purpofe
for which he role ; the Ri t Hon. Gentleman
' (Mr. Potter) had obferved t under the laws of
Ireland, the Agriculture of Jr and had improved.
That under the laws of England, the Agriculture
of England had declined. He was fpeaking in the
hearing of thofe who knew, this fubjedt much better
than hunfelf, who underflood the Agriculture of
' England extremely well, and he appealed to them
in particular, as well as to the Houfe in general,
whether, notwithtlanding the inconveniencies.
whatever they might be, and they might be nume.
Tons and great, bin whatever they might be, from
the fluduation of the law upon this fubjea, and of
prices in this article ; he would afic, whether the
Agriculture of this Country was not, fo far from
declining, that within the lag ten years, it had
improved more than it did in the fame length
of time, in the whole courfe of the hittory of
this Country ? He maintained, that it was im-
potrible to look at fads, as they appeared before
us daily, without coming to that conelufion. It
might be matter of curiofity to inquire, why, if
the Agriculture of the country had fo increafed,
England bad, for the laft 3o years, been an im-
porting country with refped to corn, when it was
known, that for the preceding part of the century
Ihr was an exporting country. That might be uf.
c ram! to the influence of population, and alfo of
wealth, and its attendant luxury, by which Wheat
had come into common confumption in England
over every part of it, or nearly fu; however that
might be, clear it was, the Agriculture of England
had improved greatly within thefe ten years. On
the comparifon between Great Britain and Ireland ,
it fhould be obferved, that Wheat was not the
common food of man in Ireland ; he underflood
no fpecies of Grain except Oats was in general
confumption there—Barley in a great degr:e cer-
tainly, but not general ; but this prevented the