Star.
London, England, 1822-03-14 00:00:00

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was to be brought before the Hose& There Must be
a point at which they mint. stop, and if the country,
*-et* not prepared to sax, that the Govern Mitt ()AWN
tobet4lthe More pf a Republic, they could not expect
these things to be *granted. If Gentlemen sirevisdis-
to stop here, he should not mind this otk;e.,--
ut if this were to be led on to other offices in ate
-same manner, he Would not vote for the present mo-
tion. He held it to be necessary to the safety of the
country to allow a sufficient influence in the Crown;
and so long as he had a seat in Parliament, he trusted
his Constituents would not expect him to act other-
wise than his sense of duty prompted. He never
would consent to heat down the power of the CrOwn.
Ifit was told to his Constituents, and misrepresented,
as what he had said had been before now, he should
say, that he came there with the intention of doing
his tints, honestly and conscientiously; but if-they
'wanted him to come there to pull down the power of
'the Kiog, they must get some other person, for he
would never consent to do it. * •
Ain RANKES understood it to be contended that'
offices, however expensive and useless to the coun-1
try, were to be kept up to support the influence of
the Crown—(Hear, hear). He had always heard,
froth the first authority in that House, that the in-
fluence rif the Crewn was confined to the necessary
offices of the State-,(Rear, hear, hear). These were
the legitimate sources of patronage, and the only le,
gitimacy which he recognised. All offices while they
existed should be at the pleasure of the Crown to a
greater degree than he thought they bad been. But
when Farlia ment thought them useless, then only it Was
they should interfere with them to abolish them. The
Noble Lord had alluded to two Rills which he had
the honour to propose, and the Right Hon. Gentle-
men he believed to have supported them. He was
quite sure that the Hon. Gentleman on the second
bench (Mr. Fremantle) did, and he thought his Right
Hon. Friend did also. It was generally his good
fortune to agree with him, and whenever he diffeied
from him it was with very great pain. He had
the highest opinion of his talents and integrity,
and he would not say more in his presence.—
lie thought the Noble Lord had just gone far enough
W::1 his Resolution, and not too far. He had gone
jt.s,. as far as he (Mr. &hikes) went in 1812, and there
was no difference in the circumstances of the two
periods which could induce the House to change its
decision. With regard to the argument of not know-
in-.; when to stop, he saw nothing in this Resolution
v.ilich pledged any Honourable Member to any til-
te:or course whatever. Reductions of other offices
be proposed, and some of which he should
styport, whilst others he would oppose. He should
feel himself at perfect liberty to exercise his own
discretion upon every future case which came before
the House. He had not beard one word advanced
in sup;roit of this office upon the ground of its utility.
Ile perfectly agreed with the. Noble Lotd in viewing
the question as one at lust economy, and not as at-
tempting to pull down a long constituted once, to
lessen the influence of the Crown. It was only acting
upon the principle of reducing everything as far 4.
was safe and just to the country, which they bad
pledged themselves to do, in the Address which he
ba.-1 the honour to move in 1821. He thought Mi-
ni,ters were not redeeming that pledge by opposing
the motion of an Hon. Baronet the other night. If he
was to take that as a specimen of their economy, he
should be exceedingly disappointed. He supported
the motion because not one word had been said in
defence of the office upon the ground of its necessity.
Neither was it, as had been represented, an office of
such ancient standing. It was not equal in antiquity
and importance to many of the offices which they
had abolished in the Exchequer and elsewhere. It
had not been dignified by great name, in remote psi.
tiods of history, nor had its possessors the power of
turning it to the advantage of the country. He
trusted the House would go along with hint in sup-
porting the motion of the Noble Lord.
Mr. PEEL said, the Noble Lord had called upon
the House to decide the present question on the naked
merits of the case;- and had been followed by his
(Mr. 13ce.F ) Right Hon. Friend, who had argued it
upon prin:iple ; though his Right lion. Friend by no
means conceded to the Noble Lord the argument that
the office in question was useless. Ile hoped he should
he considered as discussing the question fairly if he
addressed himself to both its elements ; inquiring,
first, whether the office was useful? and, secondly,
whether, independent of its usefulness, it was neces-
sary for the preservation of the just influence of the
Crown ? In looking at the first of these branches of
the argument, it became necessary to ascertain when
the office was founded, though he admitted that an-
tiquity alone was not a conclusive argument for its
continuance. If it had been the growth of tempo-
rary circumstances, no one could argue for its conti-
nuance, when those circumstances had ceased to
exist. But still he submitted that the date of the office
was not entirely. to be overlooked. The year ninety-
two, was a constant date among Hon. Gentlemen op-
posite, and to a degree which would lead one to be-
lieve that they considered it the standard date of
financial perfection. He would refer the House to
the year 92 ; but it was in 1692, that be found the
office was first instituted, and be found that on its
first institution it was held by two Postmasters-Gene-
ral. The next question was, whether the duties had
increased or diminished since its commel.centent ?
, la those duties there had been a gradual increase ;
and they had become quintupled since the com-
mencement of his late Majesty's reign—Wear).—
This might be inferred from the Revenue, which, in
1764, was 4-00,0001. in 1793, 600,0001. in 1795,
'700,0001. and in 1815, 2,000,0001. With every de.
terence, therefore, for the opinion of his Hon. Friend,
the Member fur Corfc Castle, he thought it was ra.
ther too much to call this an inefficient office. Even
in the documents of the blouse, in which it bad been
mentioned, modification rather than reduction had
been suggested. The Committee of 1797 had been
justly complimented tor its labours, and its authority
had been generally admitted ; but 'that Committee
merely stated, that it might be worthy of considera-
tion whether a Board of Commissioners would not
ensure attention to the duties of the office, in which
there was much depending un hitilfal management.
The modification would, if adopted, have increased,
rather than diminished the influence of the Crown,
for a pat: onage over five offices of 10001. a-year each,
was into e desirable fur the purposes of influence, than
•k patronage over two offices of 25001. a-year each.—
k appeared that the Hon. Gentleman opposite would