Star.
London, England, 1830-02-16 00:00:00

LUNATIC LICENCES DILL.

On the motion of Mr. B. Cloonox, the Lunatic Licences Bill
went through a committee;—To.keezeported to morrow.
avirs.T.—TAXATION. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having moved
the order of the day for the house going into a committee of supply,
Mr. HUME rose and said that before the house went into cons.
mince he was anxious to submit a resolution to its approbation, be-
cause he thought that the house had a duty to perform before they
could agree to grant a supply. He felt that in offering himself to
their attention he was undertaking a task considered, perhaps, by
many to be difficult, more particularly from the great variety of
opinions that prevailed. He wished merely to answer for himself;
and he could not but think blame was to be imputed to those who
had net sufficiently exerted themselves to controut the expenditure
of the coustry, as for many years be had been of opinion that a great
deal of sax present difficulties arose from the seals of expenditure
and taxation which kis M4eety's ministers had been permitted to
keep up since the peace. On considering the situation of the coun-
try which prevailed, the house, he thought, must hesitate respect-
ing the adoption of any vote, when they saw the empire in its pre-
sent state, instead of enjoying the advantages which it expected, and
had a tight to expect, atter the conclusion of the war. Peace
and plenty had bees premise& and these was a just right to com-
plain when those promisee bad not been fulfilled, and that his Ma.
jetty's Government continued to maintain a system of taxation
altogether incompatible with the results which the people were jus.
tified in expecting. It was true that this endeavour on his part was
pot new, as he had for the last ten years been endeavouring, though
unsuccessfully, to impress the house with the mischief of the policy
that had been pursued—to show that the country, instead of deriving
benefits from a state of peace, had been obliged to support a
war establishment, and that, instead of restraining expen-
diture the Government had gone on extracting every shil-
ling from the people that it was possible to raise, and to
keep up establishments to the fullest extent they could.
It might not appear practicable to "Ward relief by a remission of
taxation ; but if the house would direct its attention to what would
have ken the result' if a system of economy had been resorted to at
the conclusion of the war, then they wuld see how much might have
been done, and how erroneous and how mischievous was the system
that had been pursued. Ile was certain that taxation continued one.
half, if not more, onerous to the people, which could not have hap.
pened if they whose duty it was did what they ought, by enforcing
a reduction in proportion to the decreasing resources of the country
from which that taxation was extracted. Instead of that, it would
appear, by reference to the returns, that the amount of taxation now
was equal to that of any period since the year 1817.—(Hear, hear.)
In 1818 and 1819--years in which it was thought necessary to re-
duce by degrees—the taxation was no more titan it was now. In
short, by referring to the estimates, it appeared the same scale was
kept up, and that ministers swelled the estimates to the full measure
of the means at their disposal. He therefore called upon the house
to do what the country, through its representatives, unanimously
called for. He would not then dispute how far the distress might
extend. He believed it to be, however, general and extensive;
while he was at the same time aatisfied, that the people of England
looked altogether to diem for relief. And under what circumstances
was Parliantent assembled ? His majesty, in his speech from the
throne, had not intimuted that there was to be any reduction of
taxation, nor heel a single expression fallen from any of the
mlniaters from which such an intention could be derived. It
was true that the house had passed a resolution to effect
every possible reduction in the amount of rue establishments;
but he knew too well that resolutions of that kind, so lo,ng
as they consented to grant a supply, were altogether
less, and could not be productive of any reduction. lie said that
because be could prove the contrary, and could show that the re.
peated recommendations in speeches from the throne had never been
eccooopanieel by any proposal for en efficient reduction. He had
taken the tremble to make copies—and they were curious—twin
which It, could securely say, that scarcely had there been a speech
since the year 1817, which did nut express the determination of his
Majesty's government to relieve the country, and to reduce the esti.
mates. But notwithstanding these repeated declarations, the house
would be surprised, on looking back, that the expenditure at this
day, the fifteenth year of the peace, and the thirteenth since the
celebrated finance committee, was not lessened an iota. The ex-
penditure of last year exceeded that of 11117 by 1,600.0004 Any
ono who heard the lion. Secretary for the Treasury (Mr. Dawson)
the other night, would blieve, from the- lists he read, that the ex.
penditure had been greatly reduced ; but he was emery to find that
no such results had been produced. Ile felt himself, therefore,
obliged to call upon the house to pledge itself to • reduction of
taxation, which appeared to him the b.st means of meeting the
altered circumstances of the country; coupling that, at the same
time, with • change in the node of taxation; and these together
would, he thought, be the bese method of effecting the great object
he had in view. The house had agreed, in the year 1821, to a
unanimous address for retrenchment. That address had been pro.
posed as an amendment upon a motion of his for reduction ; but so
far from following that economy. and so far from pursuing_thst
resolution, the expenditure had actually increased; therefore
'it was that he was far from co:•sldering the resolution of the
other night, although it had been proposed by a minister of the
crown, as giving any promise of relief. He said so, because he saw
no sooner did one vacancy occur than It was filled up; and for this
he need only refer to what happened yesterday, in the new appoint.
ment to that sinecure (Zee, the 'I reuutership of the Navy. No
governorship of a colony appeared in which, when a oblige took
place, there appeared any attempt to alter the rate of kis allowance.
He was, theretore, doubly anxious to impresaaspou hon. members,
if they wished to relieve either their constituents. or tbeoutelero, with
the necessity they were under of pledging theneelies to a reduction
of taxation, and la doing so to canvass every motion for a supply.
Ito house, =was set awes* bow mush the. country bad beta
*limed to area the sod Algol wee well the Om*
might lard New M these whit voted every
tier for the some rate of ex H. hell taw the 'trouble to
Ake op the eelettele. wbids weethl sow what hateful the country
would have derived hop eeepellif Ifowy "Muth" did es ha
ought. 'rho debt autemated op bowies ellgbead 2.0118.09.4
amino, nun to those mkt the hihkeiereletti with asinine& Boa

he. had made up tin amounl of taxes during the fifteen years
'ince the peace, and the he u.e would scarcely believe that it
,mounted to no len a rum thee 896,6011,0019. The taxes from
1817 to 182.1 ',reduced a tent item et 700,f001000: to which.
olden; the tees:inn ri bet peer, 56 O.): (e,l ited that of the years
1813 and. 1811 i atnounted case ly to et. teeth, 000!. But now, to
show what portion we should take into account, and how much ee
had been in our power to reduce tine amilent„ he had to satisfy hint.
self, continued no account which he had caused to be laid on the
table, in 1826, showing the amount of the expenses of our civil and
military extablieleuenta. l'e to the year IH2B, of the 700,000 000/.
raised wi bin the 12 years, 318 :100.090e were devoted to the stab.
litheneme of the country, and 3511.0i0 0110, went to liquidate the
charges et our funded and uneiteded debt. The amount. therefore,
which the house had to deal a ith was :116 500009'. He had no
doubt that, if ordinary attention had been paid to economy, one-half
of that might have been reduced ; and that, if the country had kept
up military and civil establislimenn proportioned to its means, we
should at present have paid off from 130,009,0094 to 130,000.000/.
of our deb:, and been thereliy relieved to the amount of
6,009,0901. or 7,000.001) . per annum. l'te civil and military ovate.
lishments for 1627 and 1828 averaged from 27,040,0001.
to 28,019).0411. in 18.21 there hod been a reduction of
600.0001; and in the followieg year the estimates were re.
ducted to 24,250.000/. There Was a rethretion then effected
to the amount of 2,0110104 in eemseqeence of the deter-
mination of the house; aril, if they had cent:nue-11 their
attention in the succeeding par he WA% fat: rt,tl thee the
would now he reduced to 14.11'01.001. :nstewl if 24.003.000/ pa
they wood a. preneht. Notwithstandice that ailthen that had been
voted, the mimeo .t were increased tee net year on rentuht of mute
alleged disturbanc s hi South inueree I. Ind rose from 24.500,000'.
to 26,000,000/. In 1825 they amounted to 26 500.0i:04 in 107 to
28,000,0004 and in 11128 nearly to 3.000,000/. more. All this or-
coned on account of the carelessness of the house, and through his
Majesty's ministers having gone on re4eardkes of their manhole and
the situation of the country. Last year, it would be tecellected,
there wax, on the part of ministers, a stror.g declaration that seett
would be the economy of the Duke of Wellington, that the estimates
would be reduced, and every attention paid to retrenchment. But
what was the fact ? The estimates, as propounded last year by the
minister in the budget, plowed a reduction of only 220,000/ or
or 230,0001. The expenditure of 1828 amounted to 17.211,0;1a
for the three breaches. But did the house reconeet the "great pm.
navel made by the clerk cf the ordnance and the sinewy at war, as
to the redpctionti that were to be made? He bad flout them been
led to ex *et that the expense of the lastycar would have been con-
, eider:arty kW. However, by the paper laid upo t the table of die
house, histead of a dettinution, they had increa,ed from 17,211,080/.
Se 17,666,0001. Therefore, judging from what had taken place,
they had no right to expect any efficion reduction, unlen the house
would interpose, and reduce the means placed at the diernal of
sninieters. The lipase would, he hoped, ennise him if he phose.l
them what it was that caused the present liituai in of the empire._
There was a call throughout the country, and a general one. that the
hooted proprietors should reduce their rents to the stitederd of 1702.
If that were to be dime, there should also be al approximation to
that standard in the revenue and expenditure of the country.--
It was admitted by the finance committee of 1817, as well as
the last, that every effort should be used to reduce the establish-
ments of the cluntry to the scale of the years 179/, 91, 92, because
they were found in every way equal to the maintenance of the inter.
eats of the country. The Finance Committee of 1828 also took
that standard as a basis, but they could not succeed, as he regretted
to say they were cut very short. It might be that the Government
wished England to be the arbiter of Europe. If such were the co,*
it was time for the people to awake out of this reverie, and to bring
the establishments of the country down to the rate its finances
could afibrd. At the present moment taxation was exacted to tee
amount of upeetrils ct fifty-six millions. The whole Civil List
Expenditure of those days was not more than 5,300,0001. it now
exceeded twenty-four millions; so that the charge had increand
five times beyond what it was in 1792. But, as profits of every
kind had been reduced to the rate payable in 1792, as well as wages,
had not the people right to demand the House to force his ,Majesty's
Alinisters to reductions similar to that. The only reduction which
had yet taken place had been a reduction of the interest of the debt
to twenty-nine millions. As far as funded property was cencerned
we had made a progress in reduction, but as regarded establishments
we had made none. It was important to see how the charges had
grown upon us. In 1792, the charges on the Consolidated Fund
were only 105,000, they had now increased to 1,200,000. 'rite ex-
penses of the Anny, which were, 4,100.000, were now 17,666,0001.
Jut although we had added to the expenses of our military esta-
blishment, yet these were not the only expenses to complain of. We
had Weed the Civil List and all Civil List I ',Tenses. The pre-
sent Civil List Was formed on au average of 1814, and of 1815,
two of the most extravagant years that had ever occurred, anti
we now continued to pay- that extravagant rate, without
even the least appearance of Blinieters advising the Crown
to return a portion. of the money. Witten prime were rising, and
when the expenses of the household were considerable, there was
no difficulty on their part, in coming down to the Louse, but they
never came down to reduce the expenses. He (Mr. Hume) never
would think of supporting the dignity of the mown, whilst sate
.and Uncle and starvation covered the land. Why was it tied we
preferred a monarchy ? Because it was thought that we eojoyed
under it more prosperity than under a democracy or aristocracy.
During the hummer reign, from the year 1760 till the year 1814,
notwithstanding vatious Acts, the minister of the crown came
down no less than eight times and demanded assistance. In
1018 and another year were paid certain atrears of regency 'ex-
penses, amounting to 5 747,000% £1,653,060 was under the cog.
nixance of the crown, and not under tile thermal of the crown.-
The crown had had five millions and a half of money above what
had been stipule. ed by us in the Act of Parliament. He &seated
that faith had not been kept with the peo,de in regard to the
civil let. Where was the money which had been raised front the
crown beds ? There had been collected front the crown lands three
millions of money, and not more than 5,0001. or 6,000/. had been
paid to the revenue. These lards were under the control of a blend
over whom the Lank had tio power—who did not obey the instruc-
tions of the house. I c would come to the palaces presently.—(A
laugh.) The honoereble baronet who had submitted a motion the
utter night had excluded all the matters which he (31r. Hume) was
anxious to being before the house. Toe amount of the money
which had been supplied in support of the crown would aimo,t
double the amount of the civil hat; and it was time fur the-neoPle,
through their representatives, to interfere. Some technical Meet.-
tions might be raised to this inteeference ; but as objections, when
it was contemplated to do anything against the people were waived
without difficulty, so on their part, ought the sante facility to be at.
forded. In 1792, the civil list wee 29,0001. in 1825, 222,000/.
The whole amount of the revenue of the mown lands was given'in
the three last reports of the Finance Committee. In 1827, it was
270 0001. in 1828, 245,000 e. 'Dime were nineteen different
reports, and ftom the extracts which lie had raade it appeared
that a century ago, it was celeuleted the crown lands wire ea.
gable of producing from 2,000/. to 3,000/. In the eeventeenen
report, in 1700, it was stated that all the fee.fitims, if we ,
would peoduce 40,0001. and it was reasonable to expect tl ei
the crown lands in stock, would produce 430,0e,1/ enyeen
By allowing the rauney to remain in the heeds of a build, 14
had been frittered away ; at any rate, the public lad 7.01 deli .id
that benefit which they had a right to expect. The eetual eneeit
collected in a given time went lack to 1798. The esderal an.e u.
was 998,000/. and tile vile le !amount paid into the Exchequer a::.
2300001. That being the case, the peo1.1.• f
the relief which they had a right to expect. :no revenue ass en'.
lected tit ia9 exttavagant a rate--the public milky sae en.ployell
for unworthy Amrposes. There was an item oe eninomo.
.for Windsor Casik. There were three items, incleilieg loesee argil
gates, 1,351: 000/. Ile thought the ministers ought to rte jun
peached. le hen he Ind raid, " let us have a p'an," the then than.
c. for of the /exchequer (Sir. Robinson) said, " t will be respen
sible, 1 ,promise the kouee no naismanneentent shall take Valero
11'as it int too much to talk of responsibility, when there *an such
an utter disregard of the pledges of ministers ? He was surprised
that some member had nut brought forward the matter by a d r. er
impeachment. tie believed that of the 794,0001. only a pet I.n
had been tectitallyeaperckel. There was 496,000 e fur Buckingham.
House, and 129,0001. for porticoes and lodges. This must he it
permanent loss to the eatintre. Such a sum would have 'hived the
whole of that ekes who, for paltry sums, were cun-untly IN.
reseed, and their beds dragged trom wider them. He t: eot
mean to blame the present ministate Ile should stop tee
supplies till his aiejesty was brought doan to hi. terieen_
(A 1. ugh.) Let the hest vote of supply be refused till there wee
clear widerstandie.g when there would be an eed of thin luny at'd
extravagance. Could the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with gay
degree of propriety, concur in reducing the , allowances of ieferior
clerks, when such in mouse suits were thrown away upon huildieee ?
The 11l l tiger CIVIC down and asked to expend two
half un the wane 9( Canada, when the whole revenues of lengiera)
could IbOtgriftlliti.teClUntry. Then4oo,ooo .was given to the duke oe
Athol tor a bielidlerie of Sodar and Man. What had the people if
England to do with the patronage of that bishopric ? these wee.:
great and crying sins. NVe must deal by witulesale when we raw
suit teeth:sine extravagance. We were treated in an etpothy
shameful matinee with reseed to the pensions and 011ie La. Be
held in ins hand a raper which had been laid before the finance
committee, to which be entreated the attention of tie house. The
pensions amounted to no less than 772,04•1. in 1127.
n'enidons on the civil list
Ireland
Seadand ..... •••• •• .• •• • • • •• SIAM,
for diplomas sonless•
eneen-os out of abs osesslidatod fund . .
est of the ceeselitheled fluid 1141019 • ps,4o
but 044 hper.ash.e.belf pee feet. mad ... 417.41011
TO alolois endplate, An • acleto reyaikeecke,
.1,1,0011