Star.
London, England, 1805-02-06 00:00:00

Lad condated the inveßigation in an untiCual man.! turd leng, Sir Andrew Mitchell, Sir Richard Bick-
ner; that they had framed their Report without hear- erton, and the late Captain Cooke, of the lido la
ing Sir Home Popham as to any of the grounds of Forte, the mode of proceeding was jug what had
charge. but that in following this courfe they thought taken place in that of the Honourable Officer (Sir
they ailed in conformity to the wifhes of the Lords Home Popham.)
Commiffinners of the Admiralty. Sir HOME POPHAM thought, that as the Hon.
The queftion being again put, Gentleman had fo many as three precedeats betides,
Captain MARKHAM role to offer a few remarks in juftice to the memory of a gallant officer, (Capt.
in explanation of the condo& of the late Board of Cooke) he ought to have omitted thefourth.
Admiralty. It was true that the enormous charges The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER la.
for the (hips under the command of the Hon. Officer, mented the reference which had been made to the
had excited die attention of the Board, and orders had fubjeft of Captain Cooke. It was due to the roe-
been given to the Commiffinners of the Navy to in- mory of that officer to have fpared the feelings of
velligate the Winds ; they had inveftigated the bull. thole who admired him, and of a country grateful
nefs, and they had given in a report, which was the for his valour and Cervices. Had he lived, he would
fame as they had publifhed in the pamphlet alluded have proved an invaluable ornament to that proftf•
to. 'rhe lion. Officer had been furnifhed with a copy fion in which, few as had been his days, he had
of :tie report, at kelt orders had been given to furnifb lit me ; and of fociety, that in deploring his lofs, did
him with a copy as form as it was received. In coh- him no more than jullice.
lequence of this report, the Board of Admiralty bad Mr. KINNAIRD faid, that he would not be
: ttint foinc intention of proceeding againft the Hon. fchcoled by any man in that Houfe into fentiments
nicer by way of indiEtment. But as it appeared of delicacy. He had alluded to the cafe of a gal.
doubtful hew far a charge fo preferred could be main- lane officer ; but both without having afperfed, or
tained, this courfe was not purfued. It was next re- meaning to afperfe his memory.
folved to proceed againft him in the Court of Exche- The motion was then put and agreed to.
qaer, but the change of Adminiftration prevented this Sir HOME POPHAM rofe to move for copies of
plan from being carried into effect. The Hon Officer his Correfpondence with the leveret Boards refited-
had atked, why fo great a delay had taken place in ing the Expedition to the Red Sea. In alluding
'irking any Reps againft him, if the Board of Admi- further to the fubjea of the papers, and repot tof the
ratty were convinced of the irregularity of his con- Navy Board, to which fo various references had
du& ? The anfwer to this was, that the Baard were been made, he obferved that it was not a little ex-
anxious to have fuller accounts of the tranfaitions in traordinary that papers, which were no where to be
the Red Sea, and had iffued orders for colleCting fur- found in the offices; that had been tiolen or purloin-
titer ir.forma.ion on that lubjed. They had alfo in- eel, he fuppofed, after making a traverfe throughout
'battled the Navy and ViCtuallins Boards to commu- the Empire, had found their way into a pamphlet
nicate the refult of thefe inquiries as the ground of unaccredited by one tittle of truth. As an inflance
any future proceedings. It remained for thole who of the jealoufy, or worfe, of the late Admiralty,
now compoled the Board, to inform the Houle whe- Sir Home next Rated to the Houle, that when at
ther (itch reports had been received, and what Reps Sheernefs, for the purpofe of refitting, every de-
were in contemplation in Inc haulers ? Before he fat lay had been interpofed, and the molt vexatious ob-
dawn, he would only add, that it would afford him ltacles thrown in his way, until at length, the
the higheft fatisfaClion, if the Hon. Officer, on a full ohjelt was in danger of never being accomplithed.—
inveltigation, fhould be able to clear his conduit from There was a fabjeet on which he felr peculiar pain.—
every afperfion, and fully ettablith his reelitade. It was not enough to have traduced him in a
Mr. DICKENSON, jun. (one of the Lords of pamphlet, in which not one fait appeared that was
the Admiralty) Rated, that he was not prepared to not fcandaloufly perverted, but that pamphlet mutt
inform the Honourable Gentleman, whether the be circulated with an indullry unparalleled—even
Report alluded to had been received. He lhould, lent to the Officers under his command : f"r when
however, inquire into the bufinefs, and communicate on a late fervice on the enemy's coat, he found
the relish. He touched on the concluding words that that pamphlet had been fent by pot} to the Of-
of the Report, fo often alluded to, and maintained ficers under his command. Was this patriotic, was
that fach language was altogether unaccountable. this public virtue, in a crifis of imminent danger ?
When filch an adrniffion was made by the Commit.- when, inilead of impairing, every hone man ought
!loners themfelves, it was pretty clear that both fides to with to firengthen the confidence of the Officer
of the quettion had not been impartially examined- in his Commander. The malevolent attempt had
He had for the lall two or three days applied ham- not fucceeded ; for he enjoyed the confidence, and he
Ulf clufely to the fubjed ; and though he would not would fay, the affection of his officers undiminifhed.
anticipate the decilion, he was happy to Rate that But as if they would attempt every thing that could
the conduit of the Honourable Officer, when fully be fuppofed to operate to his prejudice, he was, for-
confidcred, would be found to have been-totally free tooth, charged in that pamphlet with being a leader
from all ground of cenfure. As to the prefent of Catamarans. He concluded with moving, for en.
Board of Admiralty not having proceeded againtt pies of leveret letters and papers figned by himfelf,
the Honourable Officer by a court martial, he had a and by the public Boards and their lervants, relative
-cry Mort but fatisfatory reply. Previous to their to his expedition to the Red Sea, which were ordered.
coming into power, the period limited by AEI of Mr. FOX raid, that on the face of the bufinefs, the
Parliament for that purpofe was expired. They had farts did not bear out the Hon. Officer's Ratement.
fubmitted it to the Board of Naval Inquiry, who But as to the faits, the truth was, thofe papers for
had declared it not to fall within the province affign- which the Hon. Officer faid he had written in April,
es, to them by the Legiflature. He was glad that!! and which, he Paid, he had not received till the month
would now be fully, and he trufled impartially, of Auguß fucceeding, had not any thing to do with
cuffed. the late Board, as that Board was at an end in left
Captain MARKHAM defended the proceedings than three weeks after the period in the month of
of the late Navy Board, and confirmed Mr. Kinnaird Apia which had been Rated. With relped to the
in his Ratement refpelling the intention to move for animadverfions on the late Board, he would fay, that
a criminal information againft the Honourable Ad- it was not quite fair to animadvert fo iadifctiminatc-
miral. ly on the conduCt of Lord St. Vincent. lie r,:mein7

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. la
mented that fo much difcullion had taken place on
the fithjea. As the Honourable Officer was anxious
for the production of all poilible information, it
uolld. perhaps, have been better if opprobrious epi-
thets which could not be fubllantiated by fad, had
been avoided by the Honourable Gentleman who
opened the bufinefs. On loch a fubj:.4l as this, he
ti titled the Houfe would come to the difcidlion with-
oil any of thole prejudices witich Inch aggravating
reprefentations were calculated to produce. He con-
cluded by animadverting on the concluding fentence
in the Report of the Comm:ffinners of the Navy
Board, which afforded no evidence of the existence
of any thing like full or fatisfaelory invefligation.
Mr. FOX did not mean to go into any difeufGon
on the prefent occafinn. He could not, however,
admit that the Right Honourable Gentleman who
had jolt fat .own way entitled to blame the Honour.
able Gentleman for the manner in which be had in•
troduced the fubjed. The Honourable Member had
introduced no obfervations but fuch as were aridly
conneeed with the oh's& he had in view. His ob.
jea was to perfuatle the Houfe of the propriety of
having the papers produced ; and was it not for that
purpofe necelfary to employ fome arguments ?
When papers were called for, was it not always pre•
vionfly required that a cafe lhould be made nut to
the Houle 1 But the Right Honourable Gentleman
had argued that there was no necetlity for argument,
hecaufe the Honourable Officer did not oppofe the
pr.luetion of the papers. He felt himfell called
upon to protell againlt filch doerine. It was not
parliamentary, and he fruited it would never be ad-
mitted by the Houle. It was ni.t tit that the Houfe
lhould hear of the production of papers nieTely be-
cattle it happened to Putt the inclination of the parties.
He had himfelf leen the relations of parties. voting
:,,r papers, while thole with whim they were politt-
conneaed oppoled theit proluttion. He del,'
:tted all partiality and prejudice. On the fubjra of
Reprt, of which fo much had been laid, he knew'
; but it was fit the matter toll), in-
lelligated. Alter this inveiligativn, if the Honour.
chic Officer was able to clear his condue, he was fore
would afford fincere pleafure to every Member of
the Houle.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQIIEIt,
in explanation, allowed, that perfons moving for an
larphry ought to make out their cafe, but he thought
he had realm to complain when a fort of aggravated
Ratentent was made on a motion that it was under-
ttund would not be refilled.
Mr. KINNAIRD laid, that the reafon why be
l'.Ad moved on this fubjeft was now known to the
Houfe. It had become proper for Parliament to en-
quire into it, hecaufe the Board of Admiralty had
la:.1 a cafe, founded on the evidence of the Reports
to id:: to them. A, to the general method of pro-
' cedul',:, he tw4lle,:te3 that ;ti the cafes of Sir Rich
•

tiered that a Right Hon. Gentleman now at the head
of his Majefty's Adminittration faw nothing but
abate in that department previous to his getting into
office, hut not a word was tince heard from the Right
Hol.gentleman on the fubjed. When he had moved'
for papers, the Right Hon. Gentleman and certain
friends of hi., svithed for another mode of proce
duet ; but litre he was, that if the p.tpers he dared
to be laid before the Houle had been granted, the
charafter of Lord St. Vincent, and of a late Board
of Admiralty, would derive Nitre from difclofure.
It was remarkable too, and (hewed a.: well a change
of opinion, as dernondrated the *panels of his reafon-
ings, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not, fince
his return to office, attempted to bring forward any
charges or motions refpeding that Bir.:rd.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQIJER
nbferved, that he thought every Honourable Gentle-
man would at once perceive that one might very
well difapprove of the conduet of a preceding Ad
miniltration, and yet not enter into a re:rofpeet of
the conduct of thole who had comprifed it. He dif.
approved of the conchid of the late Boatel of Athol-
ralty,yet he did not think himfelt called upon to tithe
a retrofped of the meafures of the Noble Earl who
prefided, or thole of the Gentlemen who aftilled at
that Board. Though thinking on thefe fubjeets as
he did, yet he entertained an unabated refpet for the
public fervices of the Noble Lord. However, he
thought it a little too hard to hear it laid, that he had
changed his opinion, becanfe he had not exhibited
motions against the late Naval Adminittration of
this country. As to his opinion of that Adminiar a-
ton, lie begged that he might be ditlinetly under-
Itood. Every opinion he had entertained of it when
out of office, had been confirmed by every thing he
had ken, or read, or heard, fince his being in office.
Vet the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Foe) betrayed
ii•srinconlifiency a little, in accufing him of negligence
of :li. daties, in regard to his torbtarance towards
the late Admiralty ; whereas the Ilonourable Gen-
tieman. had his recolleßion not tailed kim, might
have remembered a period when the dotlrine of re-
p llitett %could not have proved very favourable to
him (Mr. Fox.)
Mr. FOX.—" I fh"uld have thought, Sir, that the
Right Hon. Gentleman would have difplayed a
greater accuracy than he has done. What happens
in youth makes a permanent imprtffion. At the pe
riod to which the Right Hon. Gentleman has alluded,
he was very young. Young memories, however, are
retentive of cireumftances that eminently affect them.
I am fore that the Right Hon. Gentleman himfelf
molt know, that there was nothing in the tranfadion
to which he has trantiently alluded, that could give
me pain on a tetrofpea of my conduit : but I do ap-
prehend that the cafe is fnmewhat orherwife as to the
Right Hon. Gentleman. Several Members on both
fides this Houk know that tranfadion, and will de-
cide on the merits of that view of it sbich I have

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEVER.—..
I (hall be judged by the world that knows the
tranfaftinn."

Sir CHA R LES POLE, in reference to the papers
fpolten of early in the Debate by Sir Home Popham,
faid, that the papers containing the charges againlt
Sir Home were fent to the Board of Naval Enquiry,
where he believed they Rill were.

Sir A. HAMMOND (aid, that the Papers were
fent to the Admiralty, and had never found their
way back to the Navy Office.
The motions were agreed to.
WAR WITH SPASM.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEVER
informed the Houle 'hat form of the Papers which
had been moved for relative to the difcidlion with

Spain were mere memorandums, not ligned by any
perfon, and therefore could not he ciccmc.d official.—

They, however, fhould be prefented to the Honfe, he
hoped, to-morrow. He then moved to poltpone his
former motion on that fubjea to Friday.—Ordered.
Mr. GREY moved for the prodation of accounts
received from Admiral Duckworth of the rale of

French ptizes in the Spadiffi ports. He had heard of
a proclamation iffued by the Government of Cuba,
prohibiting the Cale of fuch in future, and he
had been informed that the veffels had been taken

out of the harbour, in confeqncnce of fuch order,
and burned, to prevent their falling into the hands
of the enemy. The Hon. Member alto moved for

copies of the inttrations which had been font to Ad-
miral Duckworth in the month of March i 804, and
fuhlequent to that period, as to the conduit which
he was to purfue to all neutral veirels, particularly
thofe of Spain.
The motions were feverally agreed tn.

MIDDLESEX ELECTION, 1802.
On the motion of Lord MARsHAM, the Order of

this Honourable Houfe for hearing thecharge againfl
Robert Albion Cox, Efq. and Sir William R iwlins,
Knt. and alto that they thould be heard by Counfel
at the Aar, was read.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEZTER re-
capitulated lonic of his forme' iirgnmeros agAinil the
hearing of evidence at the Bar. It had been :he uni•

lot m pradice of the Houle, up to the time of the oaf-
ling of the Grenville Aa, to take the Report of their
Committee into confkleration without hay in g any fur-
ther evidence before them. It world now moll cer-

tainly be a wane of time to adopt a different mode of
proceeding. If the witneffes faid the fame at the Bar of
the Houle that they had sworn before the Committee
there was nothing gained—and, if they fhould

iicn to give a contrary ItAtement of what fen within
. . .

their knowledge, would the Houfe be inclined to he.
their unattelted affertion in contradiElion to their
muh—could the Houfc pollibly receive the lighter in
oppoCtion to the graver tellimony ? He concluded
with moving that the prefent order be difcharged.
Mr. FOX felt it impollible to cobcur in the grounds
Rated for the propofition of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, and equally impoilible to accede to the re.: in-
ter-a of the proceedings he recommended. A great
deal of additional difficulty appeared to him to be
thrown in the way of loch concurrence by this con-
federation, that the Houle had already made an order
that the parties accufed (hould be heard at the Bar.—
This order had been announced to thcfe parties, in
coutequence of which they were in attendance, and
prepared, no doubt, to produce further evidence,
perhaps of Come perfons who were out of the way,
or were not known when the cafe war under the in-
vefligation of the Committee. By fuch farther exa-
mination of evidence the parties migl t typal to be
able to lay before the Houle a more favourable view
of their catife. After fuch an order, and fuch pro-
bable preparation in confequence, it appeared- to

him that 'it would be highly unjull to make a new
order at the prefent moment. It vont ibe in fa&
to fay to the parties, "Although eve have made

lowed antecedent to that at, the whole matter of the
Election, as well with refped to the feat as to the
dud cf the Returning Officers, and all collateral
points, were referred to the Committee; and the ni-
timate decifion upon all there points Rill remained with
the Houle, the Report of the Committee ferviaz;
guide its judgment. But under the new arrangement,
did the Houfe commit to the Committee the whole
matter of the cafe ?—No; that Committee was the
dernier rept as to the S:at only. Upon that their
dccifmn was, according to a LegiLlative ACT, final
and conclufive Bot the feat was the only thing upon
which the report of fuch Committee was unalterable.
—As to any Special Report which it was authr.rifed
to make relative to the conduct of the returning
officer,, the Houle retained the full power, which,
according to precedent. was uniformly exeicifed,
proceed upon fuch (special report in the way u'hi •ti
it was the ohjed of the Right Hon! !Irablc Cc
man's mo!ion to reverie. The Grenville Ad mute
as clear a dillindion between the power veiled in the
Committee, as to the decilion of the Seat, and that
relative to a fpecial report, as words could exprels.
'ln the one cafe their power was abfolutc, in the other
it belonged to them only to report that there were
other circumflances connected with the election which
required the interference of the Houfe. Confulering
the Report before the Houfe in that view, he could
not admit that it fhould have any other influence than
that of calling attention to the proceedings of the ac-
cufed, but by no means that of forming the ground
for their convidiun or puniffiment. All the precedents
fince the Grenville Ad upon fimilar cafes, jultified this
opinim. But the Right Hon. Gentleman who pro-
pifed another courfe, thought proper entirely to over:,,
look thole precedents, and to look to the conduct for-
merly purfued under circumflances which he con-
tended were not at all analogous. If the Report of a
Committee under the new jurildietion were to be bind-
ing on the Illtife to adopt, in what a dilemma would
the Houfe be placed, furpore that an Election Commit-
tee on the Shoreham cafe, or on that of Nottingham,
had, in addition to the other particularsin their Report,
refolved that the right of Elation ought to be
thrown °pea that the Electors fhould be increafed 1
‘‘".4llkl not the admiffion suf fuch an authority, in the
report of a Committee, as he had alluded to, be in
cfred, to delegate to fuch Committee the Legifla-
tive power of the Houre ? Yet, fuch an inference
would naturally follow from the arguments ()fed by
the Right Honourable Gentleman. If, then, that ar-
gument, or the propofition that followed, could not
be foil:tined by reafon, the conltitution of the Houfe,
or precedent, he thought that jultice would urge the
adopti at of fuels a line of proceeding as might he
molt f(vourable to the interett of the accufed, and

an order that you thould be heard at the B.A. to-
day ; although you may have taken great trouble
to coiled evidence to duo* new light upon your
cafe, and to repel the charges againft you, yet we
have changed our mind, ani you cannot be heard
—we mean to re-confider the fubj.:fl." Such arctlld
be the language of the Houle to the accurcd,
lliould the propofition of the Right Honourable
Gentleman he adopted. The prailice ref tred to by
the Rizlit Honourable Gentleman, which prevailed
before the enaament of the Grenville Bill, was not,
he contended, analogous to the cafe under confldera•
tion, or to any cafe under that ; for, in the for
mer itiaance, it was to be rzeollefled, that the Coro•
minces upon Eleftion Petitions were, though nomi-
nally Seleft Committees, act-T(1161e to all the Mem-
bers of the Houle, and therefore every Member
might attend to examine and crolz-exanline the evi-
dence. Of courfe, the Report of loch Committee,
mutt be different in the eflimation of the Houfe, from
thofe of the Committees under the Grenville Aft,

which confilted but of a few Members. In the one
cafe all the Members of the Houfe were competent to
attend and inveftigate any part of the fubjeCt, while
in the other only a few fele& perfons were permitted
to do fo. This difference he the mote dwelt on,
in order to thew, that from the change which had
taken place in the jurifdiCtion upon Eleftion cafes,
the cootie torinetly ruined was not fairly applicable
at prefent. The Right Honourable Gentleman had
endeavoured to fupport his propolition by reforting
to the popular argumeat, which, in his opinion,
could make no impreffion upon any candid rational
man—namely, that becaule the wi;nelf,:s would not
be on oath at the Bar, although they were In before
the Committee, that therefore w. 2 lhould have no
examination of evidence whatever heroic the Houle.
The queltitm for confideration was nor whether the
Committee was more competent to investigate a ;
charge againft individuals, and to afcertain their i
guilt or innocence. Perhaps the Court of King's
Bench was Bill more competent to filch an invelliga
von. But that was nut the point before the Honk.
The queition was this, whether. when executing the
office of a criminal judicature, the Houle would aft
according to its own coriaitution, or to the principles
of equity, if it proceeded to pronounce judgment
without any examination of evidence as to the n more
of the cafe upon which it was called on to judge
In declaring a negative to this question, he bad little
doubt if being (*imported by a full confederation of
the praCtice of the Houfe, and by the opimon of dif-
paffiunate men. The Grenville Aft, whatever other
perfons might think of it. or however it might be eon-
- lidered in other refpefts, had created an anomaly in
the coattitation of that Houle. By the courte

that, obvionfly, was to allow them to bring forward
any further evidence that it might be in their power to
produce, for their exculpation. Any different courfe
would, he was quite perfuaded, be felt as inconfiffent
with the ends of fubttantial juftice, as it would
be with the fpirit of our laws. That law uniformly
laid, that a man accufed of any offence fhoold be
Cully heard before fcntence Ihould be pronoa, cad,
and that law very properly allowed, that if any cir-
curnliances could be difcnvered to alter the nature of it
the charge, and to eflablifh the innocence of the ac-
cured up to the moment before the time fixed for the
infliaion of punifhment, the fentence Ihould be re-
vetted. Here, however, it was propofed to deviate
entirely from that laudable and filtitary mode of
proceeding. Since the inveffigation of this cafe be-
fore the Committee, circnmttances had occurred,
which, without meaning any refleftion what, ver on
the judgment, principles, or charaaer of the Gentle-
men who compared that Committee, would, he was
perfuaded, prevent them at the prefent day from pro-
nouncing as a jury that verditl which appeared in
the Report on the table. Was it not then but
fair to allow there circumffances to he laid before
the Houfe by evidence at the Bar ? It would
be unjust towards the Houle, and it would he cruel
towards the parties accufed to exclude filch evi-
dence. If a criminal were convieted of the moll !lei-
mins offence, that power in whom the right of par-
don k conffitutionally vetted, would not heft ate even
the moment before the appointed execution of
tence, to remit that fentence and pardon the accufed,
Ihould any fags mile to prove his innocence. This
example fhould be attended to in the cafe tinder con-
fideration, and (tumid urge the Houle to afford the
accufed every opportunity of exculpation before it
attempted Lo pronounce judgment.—This was not
only the opinion which he eatertaiod, bur th,t
which was fanaioned by all farmer proceedings in
limiter cafes. In the Shoreham Cafe, which the
Noble Lord ch..fe as the precedent to follow, writ
one exception only, in this instance, lie recollect-
ed Crime debate, and a divifion alio, the refult of
which was, a determination oppofed only by a
very final' minority, that thofe acculed Ihould he
heard fully by evidence, and by Counfel at the
Bar. Such was the mode that joltice, law, and pre-
cedent fuggefled to the Houle on the prefent occa-
lion, and ire felt the charaaer of the Houle, and of
public equity, to be In much concerned, that he could
nut help refilling the introduCtion of a different prac-
tice. 'rhe evidence which appeared in the repot t
might have been taken in a look way, or it might he
imperial, and a farther examination at the bar might
elucidate many important fires. This wat not at all
impoffible, netwithaanding the dole ferutiny laid to
have taken place before the Committee, and the known
accuracy of the Coonfel employed, whore ability no
man more highly refpetled than he did, and upon
even the poffibility of Poch elucidation, he would have
the p tales allowed a farther hearing. Thole parties
he had heard it intimated, wen: willing to acqtriefe:
ir. the refit...if of any farther examination of evidence;
of this he knew nothing pofi ively, but even if it were
to, it senteld .fret no change in the opinion he en•4l.
tiiPed. I iowever, if upon appearing at the bar tht.y
adn.;t!ed the evidence as it flood in the Report, their
admiiii it malt of cottrfe be received; but in no other
way could he notice that admiflion, becaufe it was
not more his objet to render perfea juffice to the ae.
cake!, in this inflanct, than to guard againft the
eftablifhment of a precedent that wa• likely to leaf!
to great injuffice towards others. ha Honourable
Member concluded with obferving, that under all the
circumffances of the cafe, particularly atter Lavin
appointed a hearing at the bar on this day, and („'.,
tiered the attendance of the parties accordingly, is
would be one of the liarfheft proceedings •magurahlc
to reverie that order now, and (hike into a new :“'t:
9profileliars car.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL declared, that he
law no force in the arguments ufed by the Hon.Gen-
etemen in oppolition to the motion of his Right Hon.
Friend, and Rill lefs in the obferv.ition which the
Hon. Gentleman applied to the reversal of the order
and courfe of proceeding at the prefent moment. It
could not be complained that the parties were taken
unaware, as when the butinzfe had been pollponed on
a former day, his Right Hon. Friend &Ritual: totted
that the ground of that potlponement was to afford
Gentlmen an opportunity of confide/jug the expedi
ency of a deviation from the precedent of the Shore-
ham cafe, of the nature of that which was now pro
poled. That the courfe propofed by his Right Hon.
Friend was Rrialy according to the uraforni prailice
which prevailed previinss to the Grenville Ail, was
not attempted to he denied, and the queßion for the
Houle to confider in the prefent intlance, and alto t-or
future cafes, was this, whether it would be more agree-
able to justice and expediency to follow the former
courfe, or that which had obtained finre the chid-
ment of the Glenville Law ? For the former be
certainly was an advocate, and his furprize was that
any deviation from it had ever taken 1)1 ice ; the more
particularly as the Grenville Bill prefcribed nothing
on the tubjell. As to the objention urged by his
Right Hon. Friend againil the examination of evidence
at the Bar, who not being on oath, might differ from
the allegations made before the Committee, the Hon.
Gentleman, in order, no doubt, to depreciate that
obit Rion, had thought proper to ftyle it, " a pro
puher aroe'onient, ancicertainly the maxim of vex pe-
pufi, vex L'ei, was never mole applicable than t ) an
argument of fuch irrefillible force. But although
this argument was fo forcible, he would not go to
far as to fay that the farther hearing of evidence at
the Bar, flooild be refilled, if fuch refifiance Mould
appear to be injurious to the caufe of plaice, or un-
fair towards die individuals concerned iu the cafe be-
fore the Houlo There was no pretence, however,
for laying that fuch could be the cunfequence—on
the contrary, it was as fair to argue th.o the exami-
nation of evidence, not on oath at the Bar, might
be injurious to the accufed as odic' wife. Witneffes
migh go beyond their former Moments, and might
aggravate the cafe againft the accufed. Therefore
in any view the further hearing demanded by the
Hon. Gentleman appeared to him quite inadmitieble.
He obferved upon the Honourable Gentleman's al
lotion to analogy and reataniug as hoftile to the
courfe propofed by his Right Honourable Friend,
but had onat.ed to Rate any precedent to fitßain his
Ratement on the ("core of analogy. Thole prece-
dents indeed which he had it in his power to Rate,
were very few compared to the practice that prevail-
ed fo long before the exigence of the Grenville Bill.
The Honourable Gentleman had argued that it would
be iniquitous, and contrary to any precedent of law,
to pronounce fentence without hearing evidence upon
the cafe to which fuch fentence applied; but the Ho-
nourable Gentleman mull forget that fuch was the
frequent prailice in the Court of King's Bench, where
fentence was pronounced upon cafes, where not one
of the four judges had ever heard the evidence,
nor had any other knowledge of it than that which
they derived from the notes of the Judge who pre-
tided at the trial ; which notes, by the way, were not
fo much at leaß not more entitled to confidence
than the minutes of the evidence in the report before
the Houle, which were taken by a (worn thou•
hand writer. It might be laid that the Judges pro-
nouncing upon the verdiEt of a jury constituted a
material difference, but it was to be obferved, that a
Committee formed in cafes of this fort, with relation to
the Houle, were a contlitututional tribunal tantamount
to a Jury. On the ground of analogy Rated by the
Honourable Gentleman, he was fatistied from what
he had mentioned that it was unattainable, and his
arguments as to precedents were not lefs. If a pre-
cedent were wrong the Honourable Gentleman him•
(elf would, he apprehended, be one of the lift to
maintain that it ought to be tullawed. That the cafe
of Shoreham was not felt to be unexceptionable, ap.
peared in the debates and proceedings on the Crick-
lade cafe, and in the initance of Great Grindby alone
bad it been followed. Why, then, fhould fuch a
practice, if contrary to the old cootie, which he re-
afferted wasnot at all changed by the Grenville ail, and
Rill more if contrary to the ends of jußice, be suffer-
ed to go on ? it was pretended, in the cafe before the
Houk, that another hearing fhould be granted to the
parties, becaufe they might have new light to intro-
duce on the tubjed. If filch a fuggeflion were at-
tended to, it would form an argument for new trials,
tali/An/um. The accufed had already been afforded
ample opportunities to bring forward any evidence
in exculpation they defied. They had the ablell
Counfel that could be obtained, to crofs-examine the
evidence againft them and to conduit their defence,
therefore he law no ground whatever, to induce the
}ionic to enter into the cafe again. In the cafe of
Great Giimiby, where the Houfe ordered evidence to
the Bar, it appeared that the Returning Officer was
not prefent before the Committee who reported againft
him. Here then there was ground for the order,
which constituted a material difference from the mat-
ter now before the Houfe. He fubmitted that a moll
anomalous I. oxide was recommended to the Houfe by
the Hon. Gent. namely, that it fhould call evidence to'
its Bar for an ex park examination, for it could be no-
thing elk, as the Houfemuflbe unable to crofs-examine
the witneffes, having no particular knowledge of the
tranfaitions to which their evidence was meant to ap-
ply, arid not being furnifhed with thole fuggetlions for
crofoexamination which the Cuunfel on both fides
could have had before the Committee. The Right
Hon. Gentleman, confidering that the Houle had
the fame relation to the Committees undo` the new
jnrifdiaion that it had to the Committees under the
old, and that the courfe propofed by his Right Hon.
-Friend, was preferable for many ceafons, at the fame
time that it did not bind the Houfe by any means
fervilely to adopt the refoltitions of the Committee,
unlefs they were found to be folly ''unified by the evi-
dence, Rated that he Mould give his fupport to the
motion before the Houle.
Mr. FOX, in explanation, Rated, that his Rate-
punt was mifreprefented by the Leatned Gentleman,
And that, upon that mifreprefentation, a great part
of his argument was *rounded. He did not fay that
these was no precedent in law for pronouncing fen-
tence without heating the evidence ; but that to pro-
nounce guilt without hearing the evidence of the
--orecedented—and in that affertion he
- -,five of contradittion from tl:e
or zny other lawyer.

Mr. SHERIDAN faitl, the rearming of the Hon.
Gentleman went the length of this propofition : that
a Committee having been appointed,-the Houfe is
bound to adopt the refutations they have formed ;
becaufe they had better intormation than the Houfe
could acquire. This pr'pofition not only applied to
the fubjeft matter immediately referred to the Com-
mittee, but to the coridat of the Sheriffs, whom they
laid were fully heard according to approved and el
tablifhed fortes. Had the Sheriffs been fo heard

(The Attorney General nodded affirmation.) True
it was that abler Counfel could not be employed ;
but fo far was he from being completely heard, that
the defence was left (boat in a material point ;—that
general review which at the conclufion of the evi-
dence it was open for him to take in ordinary
cafes on this occcafion was not pm fired. There were
cafes where the defence was confidered the leading
()Nee, here it was only incidental and accidental.—
Who would then prefume that the Sheriffs had been
fully heard > But it was fair to fuppole that the
Sheriff had not felioufly entered on his vindication,
judging it more difcreet to referve his cafe for the
bar of that Houfe. Under fuch a poffibility, could
the Houfe gravely come to a decifion upon partial
Ilatements before the Committee ? It might be juit-
ly afferted that there were feveral contingencies un
der which the proof would he infufficierit t 1. The de-
fence of the Sheriff was partial. a. It eas collateral,
and not dire/11y before the Committee. 3. The She-
riff referved defence until he was to be tried. 4.
If all the parts of which that defence was eompofed
' were lifted, and minutely weighed. the bearing and
relation of the whole was never afrertained. Many
more gradations might be Rated, under one or all
of which the Mual means of juilification would be
denied. The Houle was entitled to a full flatement
of fans, and thefe could alone be collected properly
with the affi lance of the comments by the party ac-
citled, unlefs, indeed, the party fhould deny to him
fell this advantage. Then, faid the Honourable and
Learned gentleman, the utife was to adopt the re.
folutions, becaule the Committee had the bell means
of attendi:ig to the tefliinuny. This reafoning fhould
not flop here ; on this principle he fhould contend,
the Houfe was not to examine the evidence at all,
but to receive the refolutions, in full and implicit
confidence that fome evidence was adduced. But,
perhaps, the Learned • Gentleman would fay, the
Houfe was only to adopt the ref-81116:ms fo far as they
are confirmed by the evidence. (The Attorney Ge-
neral fignified his concurrence.) If that were the
cafe. would it not (continued Mr. Sheridan), he op-
preinve to admit the party to contend at the Bar, that
the refolutions of the Committee were not fupported
by the evidence ? As far as he (Mr. Sheridan) had
examined the matter, he was ready to acknowiedg-
he Ihould concur in this pofition, and if an indiffe•
rent enquirer entertained that fentiment, it would be
revere, indeed, not to permit the party himfelf to
fupport it in argument. His Honourable Friend
near him obferved upon the lilence of the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman oppofite, in regard to the pre-
cedents. It was a little extraordinary that this ex-
ample
was not difcreetly followed by the Learned
Gentleman, for he mull unfortunately introduced
thofe precedents, every one of which was decidedly
againit the principle he laboured to maintain. Such
were the few obfervations that occurred to him ; he
fuppofed the objedion was only to the evidence, not
to hearing counfel at the bar, to comment upon the
teßienony already fupplied. •
The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER did
not doubt the Houfe would hear *counfel in fome
Rage of the bufinefs, to determine on the degree of
punithment, but not to decide the queflion of guilt
or innocence.
Lord MARSIIAM faid, he hoped the Houfe
. would be in as complete poffeffion of the evidence, as
if it were delivered at the Bar. It was not jolt to
fay, the Sheriff had not the lull opportunity of being
heard—his Counfel had the bell means afforded him
for the examination of all the witneffes, and had he
• pleafed to fum up the whole of the evidence, the Com-
mittee would have liflened with patience and plea-
fure to this general examination. The Committee
did not mean to be underllood to objed to the pro-
I dullion of evidence at the Bar.

Mr. FOX laid a few words in explanation, after
- - - - -

which fome interlocutory obfet vations were made by
Mr. Sheridan and the Chancellor of the azche•

quer.
Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE contended, thr.t the
Sheriff had a complete oppnrtunity of defence, daring

the proceedings, viten five montni were occupied in
'wpm) —he commented on the diiiindion of the
verdict at law, and the f_ntmce cchfequent upon it ;
and contended fur the decided preference to be given
to the depofitions on oath before the Committee,
to any fubfequent examination of the kind fug.
Mr. FITZGERALD (the Prim! Scrjeant of Ire
land) reminded the Houfe of the practice of the
hills Parliament, in which all the merits were refer-
red to the Committee. He cited the pradiee of Nifi
Prins and the Courts of Law, where evidence was
heard at Bar, and afterwards reheard by a new trial
in the higher Courts. He paid a compliment to Mr.
Folter on his knowledge of the law of Ireland ; and
appealed to that Gentleman for the corrednefs of his
delcription of that law.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER
(aid, that the Learned Gcotleman appeared to think,
that the merits were not before the Committee. The
fad, however, was otherwile. The Committee fully
inveftigated all the merits, for which its powers were
ma ample. Nothing had been omitted. The evi-
dence was heard in detail, and the Sheriffs were heard
in their own defence. He mull believe, therefore,
that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would readi-
ly acquiefce in the juftice of the proceedings in this
cafe.

The queftion being called for, the Gallery was
cleared, and hangers ordered to withdraw.
' We learned, however, that the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's motion was acceded to, and the order
difeharged accordingly. On the next gneflion, la Le-
cher the Houfe fhould agree to the Refolutions of the
Committee ? a long converfation took place, in which
the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Mr. Fox had
a very confiderable fhaie. The firil Relr,lution of
the Committee was then agreed to, and the debate
poftponed till this day week.
The other orders of the day were forwarded each
a (lige.
Adjourned at half pall nine,

LONDON.

The length of ti:: dcbatc in the Heufe of Cantmnns laR nigh:
prevent. our Lying any part of the Sp tniflt Correfpondence
before our Readers this day.

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 6.
PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'N.OOE
Confols, money 591j—Wor account, 59 /—Redueed 59119
PRICE OF STOCKS YESTERDAY:
Bank Stock, 179 178 India Bonds, ts.2s. dif.
3 per C. Red. Ann. ficri. 59: Imp. 3 per Cent. 591 69
3 per Cont. COIA 59:: Ditto Ann gi t •tfiths
4mr Cent. 76i tit , Ezeheq. Bah, par prem.
5 per Cent. Navy 99041, Englifb Lottery Tickets 241. 51.
G 5 par CM i 797, 4 Cnof. for Ei:b. 591:
Long Ann. t 7 t 3-161 t I-16

Advice, were this day received at the India Houfe,
aging, that the outs tt &bound Indiamen, viz.
Wezford, Abergavenny, Royal George, Henry Ad-
dington, and Bombay Cade, that had failed, are
put back to Torbay.
We are All without any certain information rela-
tive to the Rnchefort Squadron, or to the five (hips,
fuppofed to be French, feen off Cork, in the courfe of
hat week. The following article on this fubjefl, is
copied from the Dublin Evening Pol, of Satut day laft:
" Late on Thurfday evening, Government received
an account of a Orange fleet having appeared off the
fouthern coati: Admiral I.n: d GARDNER difpatched
Tome faft failing cutters to tzcnnznitte, and no further
intelligence has been received on the fubjeft. This cir-
cumf•unce, as ufual, gave life to exaggerated reports
which were prevalent through town all yeflerday—
but we expeft that, upon wire& information, it will
turn out that fume of our own fleets have occafioned
the momentary alarm."
The Letter, of which the L.:lowing is an extraft,
is from our regular Correfpondent, at Pnzance, and
is dated, after pyl,
" PENZANCE, Feb. a.—Difpatches were landed
here laft night between nine and ten o'clock, by a
cutter which left Corl on Friday. It is reported
that they are from Admiral Lord GARDN it, and that
they contain important imformation. Some of the
feamen belonging to the cutter Rate, that there are
is French fail of the line, and ts tranfpnrts full of
French troops in Bantry Bay, but I attach no credit
to this intelligence."
The Cork Paper of Friday lA, mentions nothing
of the appearance of the five (hips off Cove ; but
it rays, after diving an account of the fuppofed appear
ante of the two French (hips off Argyllfliire : We
know not whether the orders, recently iffued to the
troops in this kingdom, to be ready at a moment's no.
tire, are connefted with this circumilance. But from
the nature•ofthofe delivered to this garrifen, which
• are of a very particular defcription, it would not be
an improbable conjteure that the precaution was
adapted on fome fuel; fulpickn."

In order to allow time for the confideration of
lime additional papers, which were this day laid
before Parliament, relative to the Spanith war, the
debate in the Commons upon this fubjed has been
deferred till Friday.
Yeflerday a debate arofe in the Houfe of Com-
mons rather unexpededly, upon the motion of rb:
Hon. Mr. KSNNAIIB, for papers relative to the re-
pairs of the fquadron under Sir FIL•NE POPHAM, in
the Ealt Indies.

The expeEted dee:lion of the Houfe of Commons
on the Charge again( Sir WILLIAM RAwLINs and
Mr. Coxe, filled the Gallery of the Houfe yefterday
at an early hour. The Debate, however, took a dif-
ferent turn, and inftead of entering at all into the
merits of the charge, was confined merely to the
conlderation of what was the heft mode fur the
Houfe to proceed upon the occafion.

Mr. P►rr moved that the Batik fhould &cide cn
the Report of the Committee, without hearing the
Charge at the Bar. This courfe appeared to him
more agreeable to the praltice of Parliament ; and
he thought that the evidence which was given upon
oath before. the Committee could neither be confirm-.
ed nor (taken by any that fhould be given nct upon
oath at the Bar of the Houfe.

This produced a long difcufGon ; but the motion
of Mr. PITT was finally agreed to, and the confider-
ation of the Report put off for the prefent.

Laft nif,ht we received French Journals to the 25th
inclufivi extra is from which will be found in the
front of this Paper. The principal article of inteltl.
gence they brii.g is the following later :
CADIIL, JAN. 4.—Rear-Admiral Sir JOHN ORDE
has written to the Marquis de la SALON A, Captain
General of Andalufia, and Governor of Cadiz, to
inform him that he has orders to declare the port of
Cadiz in a (fate of blockade ; but espreOing at the
fame time his willingnefs to fuller the fifliie,g boats to
fifh as ufual, provided the Spanifh batteries would
not fire upon any Britifh (hips that might chance to
come with their reach. To this the Captain General
has replied indignantly, that no paftor condition can
exift which can releafe him from his duty ; and that
there is no power on earth author ifed to propofe to
him his difhonour.—" Your Excellency," lays he,
" may, if you pleafe, deprive an innocent people of
their fubfinence ; but never of their honour thole
who have that of being their defenders. Neither the
lking my mailer;
fors ; but they ne'

Iit:IRK-I 4,v R.

CORN EXCHAN7r, ?r!. C.

We fill continue with (boat fuppiiti of WhA,
f Inc of the ctinntry markets 11.:ing on the advance
rather canoes l.ifl p:ices to be made for the little fate
to-day ; lime fine Old Dantzic fetches t 255. per quar-
ter—Barley in good fttpply, and to ,'-.ains its price
—Malt at lefs than la:I week—Grey l'cts a trifle
lower—Beans of each kind ar? neatly as um- ha-
We have but fcanty arrivals or Oats, ani expeeling
better fuppiies, this article is not dearer. Flour
continues in plenty, and famples of fecund quality
arc cheaper.

GENERAL CURRENCY AS 11NDER
Whew., 118 s. ICZI. lies. per qr. Grey Peale, rss to 49r.
Fine Ditto, 141. las cd. Lan!, 481. c4l.
Ryc, 53s- 58'4. Tick Ditto, 44 s. 491.
13arley. 48s. ss. od. Oat:, 19A. 315 341.
Mait, Bos 26,.. Poland ditto. 3f s. 365. Ld.
ViThite Peak Pe. 525. Rapc.secd, 441. to 481. per 1411

PRICE! Oi Fl.olJß. •
Doe flour 905. to 945. &cowls 85s. to 9:I. ptr fact.

cafe, was unpreced.
uac not apprOcnti
Ltitroed G:ntlump