Star.
London, England, 1822-05-02 00:00:00

PA RLIA•dENTA RY RF.FORNI.

Mr. JAMES said, he held in his hand a Petition
signed by 500 persons, composing a part of the, body
whom he had the honour to represent. The prayer
of the Petition was for a speedy Reform in the Re-
presentation of the People. They stated that the
great majority of that Home was sent to Parliament
by a less number than one-thousandth part of the
male adult population of the country. The Peti-
tioners entered into a review of the causes of the pre-
sent evils. They reprobated the policy of the present
Government, complained of the Manchester transac-
tions, and the affair at the funeral of the late Queen.
—They attribute] the extreme distress to excessive
taxation. The lion. Member, in alluding to the Bill
for the resumption of Cash Payments, denied the
proposition of the lion. Member for Portarlington,
that the change in the currency produced by that
Bill, did not exceed ten per cent. He. felt warranted
in distrusting the opinions of the Hon. Gentleman on
this subject, because the lion. Gentleman had stated
the difference between gold and paper to be first of
all 3, then 3!, then 4, and, finally, 10 per cent. Any
one who wculd take the trouble of reading Mr. Cob-
bett's pamphlets—(:l/augh )—must soon be of a dif-
ferent opinion. They were to be had at a cheap rite,
and whoever paid proper attention to the arguments
of that writer would be speedily convinced that the
Hon. Member for Portarlington knew nothing-at all
about the matter— (Much laughter).- Another cause
of the distress of the country, was the suddenly with-
drawing of a qutntity of paper, from circulation,
If his I-lon. Friend would take up the writings of Mr.
Cobbett, he would see that prices depended, amongst
other thing,:, on the quantity of circulating money in
a country. The lion. Gentleman then condemned
the plan which lied been laid before the House a few
nights ago. Ile did not see how the evils arising out
of half a century r,f misgovernment could be got rid of
by converting a ritannity of wheat into flour, and the
issuing of pawnbrokers' tickets to bankrupts and
beggar s. Whatever might be the opinion of the Pe-
titioners, it was his Of r. 3 ames's) opinion, that nothing
less than a reduction of from 30 to 35 millions of
taxes would do any good. Ile was also an advocate
for Universal Suffrage—(A loud laugh). He was an
advocate for it, because he thought as every man in
the country was liable to be called out to defend pro-
perty, he ought to have a voice in the making of laws,
Mr. CUR WEN supported the Petition, and tated
that, from his coming into Parliament, at the close of
the American war, to the present time, be had sup-
ported the cause of Parliamentary Reform.
Mr. RICAIWO said, that the Hon. Member had
charged him with giving different opinions at clif.;
ferent times, as to the e) act sum in which the ctn.
rency was depteciaed ; but he thought the Honour-
able Member ought,. in fairness, to have stated the
perkd ; when he had given those opinions.
Mr. JAMES, in explanation, said that the Hon.
NTember for Portarlinuton (Mr. Ricardo) had cer-
tainly sta ed that the diderence bete een gold and
paper was only ten per cent. but he (Mr. James) wes
firmly I:ersuaded that it was not less than 50 per colt.
The Petition was 7 laid teen upon the table, and cr-
tiered to be printed.

ITALIAv ENIIGUANTS—INDTPENDENCE Or Wel*lt

AMERICA.

Sir JAMES MACKE:CIO:DI said he had two
que"ti‘" to u,k of the Noble Marquis opposite,
which, of COW se, he misht answer or nor, according
to his own juilginear. They were both of great im-
portance, though very dart ent from
lie wpidd thefetOre wait Oil he hid
saver to one, 1-,t,to;e he put the other.
11011 %%hid) be ‘voutd put to ti,e
whether hi, MAjesty's Ooyernment ha,
official ihtOrmation rcsrecting the late
r.
pa4ion of the Itali.m

,

each other,
received an an-
The first Tura.
'.'obk Lord was,
ieceived atiy
to atrocious ev.
the ~,,:tatt vt

7-- -.

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i~

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r~

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w•T

Geneva and other parts of the Helvetic Confederacy,
in consequence of some menaces held out to those,
States, by the Alliance calling itself Holy ?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, in reply,
that he could give no answer, for until the Hon. zAd
Learned Gentleman had mentioned the facts, be never
heard even a suggestion of them—(Hettr, hear).
• Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said his second ques-
tion formed the matter of a query put to the Noble
Marquis yesterday by an Hon. Friend of his, but, to
which no answer was given, as an exception was
taken to the manner in. which it was framed. He
would therefore state his question now as pre
cisely.
and unexceptionably as possible. The question was,
Whether his Majesty's Government had yet recog-
nized the independence of the Republics formerly
composing South America ? or if they had net for-
mally recognized them, whether there was not such
an intercourse as to imply a recognition, and if they
had not done either, whether they had any intention
of doing so ?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that as
to the question respecting the formal recognition of
South America, he should reply in the negative.—
With regard to that .sort of intercourse, which im-
plied a recognition, he apprehended that the answer
to the first patt of the question disposed of that also.
Hitherto the countries of South AMerica had been
treated as belligerents ; and with all the respect due
to belligerents, the blockade had been respected by
this Government. So far their tights had been re-
cognized. With regard to any .commercial inter-
course, the Hon. Member would do well to refer to
a Bill now before the House, in which it would be
seen that measures were taken to give it every faci-
lity. Having then answered in the negative to the
Hon. and Learned Member's first part of the ques-
tion, he had to hope that Government would not be
pressed further as to what steps they meant to take
in future—(Hear, hear).—Hc hoped Ministers would
not be called upon for explanation, until they had
better information upon the subject; for it should
not be forgotten, that before any line of conduct was
adopted, it would be necessary to have an explana-
tion with the parties.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, that in treat-
ing the States of South America as belligerents, this
country had dOne no more than America and some
other States. It would be seen, however, that some
of these States, and particularly America, had gone
further, and formally recognized the independence
aaf the States of South America. It now appeared,
froth the statement of the Noble Lord, that the same
steps had not yet been taken by this Government ;
but it was unnecessary for the Noble Lord to desire
not to be pressed for a further explanation, for
he
(Sir James) had no disposition to do so.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that be
had some reason to complain of the precipitancy
with which these questions were brought forward.—
The Hon. and Learned Member had assumed facts
upon no other authority than mere reports. That the
United States of America had recognized the inde-
pendence of the Republics of the South, was'a fact
of which be was still to be informed. He was aware,
indeed, that the Piesi:lent sent a Message to the two
Assemblies, and that a Report was made out, but he
had rant heard that any proceeding took place upon
it. Under such circumstances h.: was obliged to say,
that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was too hasty
in assuming facts without authority, and founding
questions upon them which could tend to no other
purirne than to embarrass Government.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said, he was not at
all prepared for this retaliation on. the part of the
Noble Lord. In speaking of the United States, he
only meant to say that they had almost formally re-
cognized the independence of South America. After
all, the only difference between him and the Noble
Lord was as to the arrivii of the information respect-
ing the formal recognition.
ALIEN ACT.

Sir ROBERT WILSON said he too had to move
for a Paper connected with the conduct of the Al-
liance calling itself Holy. He observed that it was
in contemplation to renew that most odious and anti.
European measure called the Alien Bill—(Hear,
hear, hear).-11 this was done, he should say it was
a breach, if not of good faith, at least of an under-
standing; for whey the subject was last before the
House it was understood that it was not to be
brought on again—(Cries of " No, no r)—The im-
pression upon his mind certainly was that the Bill
was not to be renewed. He then moved for e Re-
turn of the names and number of persons sent out of
the country under the Alien Act since its re-enact-
ment, and of the number of Appeals made to the
Privy Council upon the subject.
Mr. lIOBIIOUSE, in seconding the motion, said,
that if this odious measure was brought in again, he
would use his privilege of proposing perpetual ad-
journments; and if Gentlemen would second him,
Ministers would be at length compelled to abandon it.
CIVIL LIST.

Mr. HUME wished to ask the Right Hon. the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, as he observed the
absence of the Noble Marquis (Londonderry), when
the Ilouse was to expect the Returns ordered on the
29th of March last, respecting the third class of the
Civil List? He complained that many of the orders
made by the House for the production of papers were
disregarded. There had been sevesal orders given,
relative to the Barrack and Ordnance departments.
Papers which had been moved for respecting Colo.;
vial Accounts bad not yet been produced, in conse-
quence the consideration of that important subject
would be deferred till a lute period of the Session.
The Marquis of. LONDONDERRY (who had
come into the House while the questions were asking)
said that he would leave the answer on the subject of
Colonial affairs to the Hon. Secretary for that depart-
ment, With respect to the papers relative to the
Civil List, he had seen them this morning, and they
would be ready to be presented to•morrow. He had
taken the liberty of carrying the information further
than had been demanded. The Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Hume) would see that not only were the ac-
counts given for the year 1792, but for every year
since that period. They would form a complete code
- information.
Mr. HUME asked if .the Noble Marquis had any
objection to having the Expenserof the Irish Civil
List produced?
The Marquis of. LONDONDERRY replied, that
had no objectiou.—The paperk were ordered.

Half-pa'
Mr. saa4:
. .
earliest opportunity. ezioestl
proposal that bad been Subetit to the House by
the Noble Marquis on• Monday evenint.—namely, that
of an Extension of the Bank Charterfor ten years,
though it had pot much connexion with the subject
now before theta. Ile felt it necessary to state that
he objected most decidedly to the extension of that
Charter, or rather, that which the Noble Marquis had
unintentionally termed it, the Bank Monopoly.
The CHANCELLOR of the ,EXCHEQUER rose
to order ; he said the observations of the Hon. Member
had no reference to the subject before the House.
Mr. GRENFELL said, that he understood the
question was for a ComMittee of Supply, and that he
was not out of order in the course he adopted.
The SPEAKER said, that the Committee was not
one of Supply, but one for the discussion of a parti-
cular subject. All that he felt necessary to observe,
was to ask the Hon. Gentleman whether the subject
which he wished to comment upon did not form a
part of the notice of a motion which had been fixed
for a subsequent day ? If that was the else, the
Hon. Member must feel that he was infornial in
bringing forward a question then which was fixed for
a later period. •
Mr. GRENFELL admitted that he was in error,
but expressed his intention of calling the notice of
the House to the measure on an early day.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee,
and the Speaker left the Chair.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that a plan had,been submitted on Monday night to
the House by his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Lon-
donderry), relative to the modification of the Half-
pay and. Pension List. His Noble Friend had then
described the advantages of the measure, and pointed
out the immediate annual saving to the country of
nearly the sum of three millions. The public atten-
tion appeared to be much excited on the subject in
consequence of the intimation given on that evening.
Ills Noble Friend had merely given the outlines of
the plan ; it would be his duty to fill up the blanks,
and to explain to the House the principle on winch.
the measure was founded, and the material objects
which it had in view. A great deal was of neces-
sity to be deferred, until the opinions of those who
should become the .contractors for either the whole
or a part should be ascertained ; and a great deal was
to be left to the consideration of the Douse in the fu;
tare stages of the Bill. In the present cage, he only
wished to call their attention to some of the principal
points of the measure. It might be asked, why did
not the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the first
place, make a bargain with persons willing to be-
come contractors, and then bring the subject before
Parliament to receive its sanction? But his answer
was, that it was a measure of so novel a nature, so
much out of the ordinary practice of finance, thakhe
did not feel himself authorized to enter into any-

treaty, or to pledge to a certain extent the concur-
rence of the House, until he had received their sanc-
tion to the principle of the measure. The plan was
perfectly distinct from any others alluded to by ;he
liable Lord on a former evening. It had no connec-
tion with the question of the currency—nor had it
any connection with a modification of the exist-
ing Bank Charter. On -both those questions he in-
tended to submit some propositions to the House in a
few days, as he considered that the question relative
to the circulation of one-pound notes was intimately
and substantially connected with that of the Bank
Charter. The simple question on that evening was,
the considering how far the sum annually voted for
various annuities, in compensation for Naial, iVlili
tal y, and in some cases Civil service, and which were
to be regarded as a public debt, might be commuted
for a fixed sum. On principles of public faith, he
had always considered that an individual who re-
ceived coral ensation for military services, or for those
rendered to the State, had as good a title•to the se-
curity of that sum as the public creditor had. At'
the close of the late war, when he had occasion to
bring forward a measure for the increase of the half-
pay of certain branches of the service. he had termed
it a debt of public gratitude. In other countries the
pay of retired Officers was ever considered in that way.
In France it formed a part of the national debt of
that country. It was his wish to leave the entire re-
gulations of the Service as they at present stood. He
would not alter any of tl:e claims, or the mode of
paying them. He would not, interfere with the regu-
lation for exchanging from half-pay to full pay, or
prescribe new modes of selling out. Under the
charge of half-pay and pensions was also included
the whole superannuated naval and military allow-
ance, and to this head extended the new measure
which lie was about to introduce. He proposed that
the pensions and allowances now charged on the
Consolidated Fund, which amounted to £400,000 or
£500,000 a year should also come under the new re-
gulation; it was even questionable whether this sum
ought to be charged at all on this Fund. The pro-
vision for the Royal Family, which was given to
those illustrious individuals to support the rank and
splendour which became their high station, as well
as those sums given to the Crown to enable it to
exercise its munificence, which were charged on the
Consolidated Fund, were such as in their nature he
thought ought to be excluded from any regulation of
the nature he had to propose; because if they were.
brought under it, it would tie up the bounty of the
Crown. He also meant to exclude those whose
claims were on the Four and a Half per Cents. how-
ever, the propriety of these exclusions would be here-
after open for discussion. By the exclusion of these
charges, the sum under consideration would be about
5,000,000/. It was a sum vague and fluctuating in'
its nature, in consequence of the death of naval and
military men, and pensions which might yet arise.
But 5,000,000/. approximated the real sum. The
abstract from which forty-five years was made as the
probable period of the termination of the annuitants,
was taken from a return of 5,000 persons who now
compose one-fourth of the number to be provided
for, the amount of that number being sixty thou-
sand. There would be an annual decrement in that
number till it became finally extinct (Hear, hear).—
It was not improbable that the age of some might be
protracted to 60 or 70 years ; however, these woo
rare instances. Oa the whole it was concluded, that

might arise for which no compensation._ given,
he thought it would be a great hardship on the indi-
viduals to have the contract made in any other way
than that proposed. In, any other mode it would give
an opportunity of prpfit on the one hand which Par-
liament could not sanction. As the Long Annuities
terminated in SS years,k it would be imprudent that
the contract should terminate in less than seven years
after, as it would be a great inconvenience if both ex-
pired at the same time. , The Public wcdd,.by this
arrangement, have a great annual saving for fifteen
years ; but the contracting parties would lose during
that period. He could not see what objection Par-
liament could have to recognise this debt and fund it.
In whatever way the payment of it would be pro-
vided for, it was not intended that it should have
any reference to the present Sinking Fund. The prin-
ciple that these annuities were now a part of the debt
of the State could hardly be denied, and as such
ought to be provided for. A strong reason which
justified that principle was the nature of the change
which took place since ahese annuities were first
granted. The long duration of the last wars and the
great exertions which this country made, had in-
creased these charges to- their present large, amount.
Previous to 1792, they amounted only to £650,000,
as appeared by the Fourth Report of the Finance
Committee which then sit—now they amounted to
5,000,000—partly by the increase of the number of
naval and military men employed, and partly by the
more liberal allowances now given, which extend to
a vatiety of cases not then provided for. Soldiers
were not then entitled to pensions. These extraordi-
nary charges, which grew out of the last war, were
intended to recompense the services of those who
risked their lives for the preservation of their country.
Ile thought it became the wisdom of Parliament to
revise these regulations—(Hear, hear)—with a view
of lessening these charges ; and it was upon that
ground that the present regulation the more strongly
recommended itself. The Committee would see the
impropriety of his entering into minute -details, or
mentioning those terms which Government think the
parties ought to accept. It was better to leave them
to act for themselves. He did not think it necessary
to enter into any further explanation now, as the
subject would come again under discussion. The de-
tails he would defer till then; but the application of
the measure would, he thought, be productive of a
-most beneficial effect. The Right Hon. Gentleman
concluded with proposing the following Resolutions :

1. That it is the opinion of this Committee, that the amount
of the Naval and Military Pensions and Civil Superannuations
nay be estimated at about £5,000,000.
2. That it is the opinion of this Committee, that this sum, cal.
culated as an annuity guaranteed by Parliament, may be cond..
•41.6 fed as a burden, forming a charge upon the public income of
the country, fur the lives of the annuitants, subject to such re-
guiations as are applicable in each case.
5. That it is the opinion of this Committee, that the amount
of this charge has been increased, principally by the long du-
ration and extended exertions of the late war, from the sum of
about £650,000 to the said sum of 4000,000.
4. That it is the opinion of this Committee, that under this
gieat accumulation of annual charge, and in the present state of
the country, it is expedient to make provision for apportioning
this burden so as to ensure its final extinction, either by an equal
annual annuity, terminable within forty-five years, or by per-
manent annuities, with such provision for the repayment thereof
as is required by the Act 52 George 111. c. 55.
5. ghat it is the opinion of this Committee, that the Commis-
sioners of his 111ajesty s Treasury should treat and contract (sub-
ject to the approbation of Parliament) with such bodies politic
and corporate, or other persons, as may be willing to undertake
to provide for the charge of the above-mentioned pensions and
allowances, or any part thereof, in either of the above modes;
and who shall give adequate security for the performance of such
undertaking.
If the Pensions are now £5,060,000 a-year, they will, at the
lend of each one of the ensuing 45 years, be of the following
magnitude

After year I

ies,ooo,ooo

4,855,856

4,711,708 I
4,567,559
4,425,561
4,583,563
4,141,565
4,001,749
0,861,932
3,722,116
3,585,494
3,448,872
3,312,250
3,179,476
3,046,703
2,913,930
2,786,136
2,658,343
2,530,550
2,410,392
2,290,239
2,170,077
2,058,439

After year 23
24
23
26
27
25
29
50
31
52
33
34
35
36
34
ZS
39
40
41
42
43
44
45

- £1,946,801
- 1,835,163
1,732,483
1,629,803
- 1,527,124
- 1;433,929
- 1,340,734
- 1,247,540
- 1,164,113
- 1,080,686
- 997,260
- 926,473
- 855,687
- 734,900
- 722,536
- 600,172
- 597,207
- 544,487
491,167
- 437,847
- 392,302
- 346,757
- 506,679

On the first Resolution being put,
Colonel DAVIES objected to the measure ; first,
because at the moment Ministers came down to the
House to tell it they were determined to preserve the
Sinking Fund inviolate, they were making a covert
attack on it. They were also acting on the unjust
principle of relieving themselves at the expense of
posterity. The calculations made were founded on
deaths alone, not on the contingency of war or pro-
motion. Ile was satisfied, however, the Public
would not gain by the arrangement. On looking at
the sums to he paid by the Public, and the contrac-
tors, it would be found the Public would sustain a
loss. For the first fifteen years the contractors would
pay £63,580,000—the total amount the Public would
pay in that time, would be £42,000,000. In the se-
cond period the contractors would pay £39,600,000,
and the Public 04,000,000 ; thus, in this period,
the Public would lose 1:44,40000; and on the
whole they would lose £23,400,000. It was truc
there was to be set against this loss the sum saved in
the first instance. However, he thought the Public
would gain nothing by the measure. These were his
ideas, which he thought it his duty to state to the
House, however crude they may be en a subject
which from its novelty required more time to become
well acquainted with it.
Mr. BRIGHT said be was sorry to see so little at-
tention paid to this subject as the then state of the
House evinced, particularly by those_ Gentlemen of
the Agricultural Committee, who ought to be prin-
cipally interested. No persons would be found to
engage in this contract unless a very heavy sum were
paid them ; for who would engage in a contract from
which it was not probable he would derive any ad-

mry.of his family..? This men.
productive of the relief content-
were determined to afford any
• country, they would at once
and Leather. Duties. Ile
Northumberland (Mr. Beau-
luced to give up his intention
moving of the Leather Tim, under
the idea that this novel arrangement would afford
any relief. If the House passed this Act, it would
confirm the Superannuation Act, and thus•shut itself
out from revising it. He hoped that the Committee
would reject the Resolution; and he declared it his
intention to give it all his opposition in every stage.
' • Sir J. NEWPORT asked if any man would con.
ttuet on a system which was directly contrary to the
principle on which such bargains were usually made?
He maintained that this measure was in opposition
*to the principle of the Sinking Fond. He thought
It would be more rational that the Commissioners of
the Sinking Fund should •be the contractors. This
would avoid a double machinery and save the bonus
to the contractors, because whoever contracts will ex-
pect a large compensation ; besides, these payments
must eventually come from the public purse. 'hen
as to security; what difficulty will there not be in pro-
viding an adequate
,security? But this difficulty
would be removed by making the Commissioners of
the Sinking Fund the contractors. This was the sim-
plest course, and ought therefore to be adopted.--
However this measure might be cloaked as a loan,
he could not be persuaded that it was not au invasion
of the principle of the Sinking Fund.
Mr. BEAUMONT thought the arrangement cer.
tainly tended, to a certain extent, to relieve the Fut-
ile. In his opinion, the Chancellor of the Bichequer
shewed inconsistency in touching the princi;)le of the
Sinking Fund, but yet" so far he agreed with him,
and only wished that he would become mote con-
sistent, and do away with the Sinking Fund. He
did not see how the present measure would prevent
Gentlemen from coming forward still to diminish
the burden of taxes.

Mr. J.MA R'T IN would not be surprised if the Mem-
ber for Northumberland (Mr. Beaumont), who voted
for the abolition of the Sinking Fund, brought for-
ward such a measure as the present; but it teas
strange to see those who supported it, bringing tor-
ward a measure which directly attacked its pno iple.
Wlifnot transfer the Long Annuities to a 10n,,e. e-
nod than thirty-eight years ? Life Annuitie.
granted every day; the fact was, that Ministers were
determined not to give up any of the offices which they
maintained were necessary to be upheld to pree: ye
the influence of the Crown in that House. He thatigA
it necessary to oppose the Resolution.
Mr. H. GURNEY' said, the debt 4five millions in
its own nature carried with it a Sinking Fund in iLe
demise of the patties. Ministers pledged themselves
to support an honest, fair Sinking Fund ; hut the
present measure, if successful, would render it nomi-
nal and fallacious. If Ministers were driven to give
up two millions, why not take it at once front the
Sinking Fund ?
Mr. T. WILSON deprecated any infringement ea
the Sinking Fund. One of the good effects of th;it
Fund was, that it enabled the country to meet any
deficiency ir. the Revenue without having recourse t.->
new burdens. At the same time he thought thatoi)-
positron to the measure came with a very bad gr.:ce
from Hon. Gentlemen on the other side, who, v. hi!::
they professed themselves advocates of reduction, ob-
jected to it in the only possible way in which it could
be carried into effect.
Mr. KICARDO contended that the plan was rr-
thing more nor less than an invasion of the pi incip:e
on which the Sinking Fund had been establish,,d.
He was surprised to hear it said by the Right FITI.
Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that
the sum in question was part of the public debt cf
the country, while, at the same time, he lent his sup-
port to a measure, which directly interfered with the
fund which had been set apart for its extinction.
Viewing the measure in the light of a loan, for it %vas
nothing else, he would ask, supposing we now bor-
rowed £2,200,000, should we not, according to the
proposed scheme, be more in debt at the end of forty-
five years than we were at present? If this proposi-
tion were just, and to him it appeared incontroverti-
ble, he would ask if the scheme was not, what he had
represented it to be, an invasion of the Sinking Fund?
If his Majesty's Ministers had thought proper to
propose a measure for doing away the Sinking
Fund altogether, he should not have the slightest
objection to it ; but he thought it a gross inconsistency
to affect to keep it up, and yet at the same time to
introduce a scheme which was a direct encroach-
ment upon it—(Hear, hear). It must be obvious to
every man who considered the subject, that the part
of the debt which this scheme contemplated, carried
its own Sinking Fund with it ; therefore there could be
no necessity whatever to bring a new Sinking Fund
to act upon it, or to place it in a situation different
from the whole debt of the country. In fact, this
was, to all intents and purposes, a plan for taking
I:2,200,000 from the Sinking Fund.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, he did not rise to contro-
vert the proposition laid down by the Hon. Member
for Bristol (Mr. Bright), that this five millions car-
ried a Sinking Fund with it in the mortality of the
annuitants. The strongest friend to the measure
urged that in its behalf. With respect to the Hon.
Member for Portarlington (Mr. Ricardo), he was sur-
prised to hear him say that it was an invasion of the
Sinking Fund ; but if he rightly understood the ar-
guments of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, their prin-
cipal objection to the measure was, that his Right
Hon. Friend did not expect to be able to persuade
persons to take on themselves the charge of Ming
4...5,000,000 annually, without deriving some profit
in return. Part of the burdens of the present gene-
ration ought to be supported by postenty, and they'
were justified by the trinciple of the Sinking PA
Act to raise loans payable by posterity, taking care
they shall not extend beyond the term of forty-nve
years. They had a right to violate the Sinking Ford
to relieve some of the burdens. of the country ; but
how did they do it by this measure? What was the
operation of the measure? 'lf successful, would not
the effect of it be to leave the five millions of the
Sinking Fund applicable as before, with so much the
less to call for its application? It 'Seas to be consi-
dered whether, with the burdens of a twenty-five years
.war, we had not a right to postpone a part of them
to posterity ? They had imposed on themselves two.
ruudred and forty millions of war taxes for the rtliet

ry

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11111151 ' (114

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HALIONIY! iii:tr re. satafrribtyu. •
-five years the sum'tobeffl4.b.,7 vantage himself, or atry*ol
:HANCEALOR . , moved oon •td not amount Smailli‘ aborelhopre would not be product
derof tihrWhy for the (*a goi n. g into a than 001,6/9,,,and thA cotilytot le Mulcted to Atte& If Ministers wen
.
ittee on the plan for thitolain.titation on the continue long, from dbe alga the annuitaits. As ,sultstantial relief to the co
arand-,klaval and Militiryiiinasiani. Officers on half-pay werellab*to bi put an anti in .rilistve it from the Salt
GREZIPELL rosiqand said". that he took the. the event of, war, to be slat to foreign climates, and' hoped the Member for N
t 0000rtunity..of expressing his opinion on the thus be exposed to loss of life; and as contingencies most) would not be induc
. .• _ L._ rwhigsht arise for which no compensation could be given, of movinf for a repeal