Star.
London, England, 1806-05-24 00:00:00

LIMY lIITIMATIS.

General TARLETON hoped the Secretary at
War would fee no impropriety in having the army
Climates printed : he had contented htmfelf with
only moving for the printing of the abbe& on a for-
mer night, becaufe he did not with to throw any de-
lay in the way of the difcufllon ; but, as thole cli-
mates would be conneeled with the fubjeO of a future
military difeuffion, he Mould with much that they
fhould be printed.
The SECRTARY at WAR Rated, that it would
be unprecedented and prepofterous, to order the at-
' my climates to be printed, after the debate upon
them was over—this was his only obion.
General TARLETON dated, that there were
many detached points, on which it would be need
fury that the Houfe fhould have accurate informa-
tion, previous to the difeuffion. He inflamed the
ken of eight Weil India regiments at an expellee of
560,0001. He wifhed to know, whether they were
to come under the principle of limited fervice > As
the military meafures, to he brought forward this
year, were quite of a novel nature, he thought it
more peculiarly neceffary tc have the climates print-
ed, although it might not be altogether ufual.
Mr. HUSKISSUN alfo thought, that when fuch
novel and important military difcuffions were ex•
petted, every information that could be given, ought
to be produced.
Lord TEMPLE obferved, that the climates would
be printed on the Journals, to which
General TARLETON replied, that it was not
for the fatisfaaion of Member► in three or four years,
but for the next debate that they were wanting.
Mr. WHITBREAD alked, whether, at the time
the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hufkiffon) was in the
Treafury, the printingof the difpofition paper was any
thing more than a mere matter of form, or whe-
ther it was ever intended to give any information ?
Mr. HUSKISSON laid, he was not refponfible for
the dillrofition paper of the prefent year.
Mr. WINDHAM did not fee the great difference
between the military difcCEnns that were likely to
take place this year, and thoiir that have taken place
in former years. If no reafon was aligned for their
being printed, it was a fufficient objelion to fay, that
it was contrary to precedent. As for the informa-
tion of Members, as the climates were lying upon
the table, any Member that chofe could refer to
them even without their being printed.
Mr. PERCIVAL was for printing the climates,
and was replied to by Dr. LAWRENCE.
General TARLETON then made a fpecific mo-
tion for their being ',tinted, which was loft without
a divitinn.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
mowed, that the Houfe do, at its riling, adjourn till
Wedoefday.—Ordered.

THANKS TO THE MANAGERS OT THE INTIACHMIST.

The SECRETARY at WAR rofe, to make a mo-
tion of which he had given
.notice, and in which he
hoped ire should have the unanimous concurrence of
the Houle. The great and important tubjelt which
had fo long engaged the attention of the public and
of Parliament, the Impeachment of Lord Melville,
had, as far as that Houle was concerned, been
brought to a c melufion. He therefore now thought
it proper to call the attention of the Houfe to what
they themfelves mull have ohferved ; he thought he
might fafely fay, that no Managers appointed to
conduEt an impeachment had ever (hewn more dili-
gence, more abilities, or greater prudence than they
had in the whole progrels of the trial, and none had
ev,r fironger claims to the approbation of that'
Houle. The Houle had very naturally feleEted for
that arduous talk men of the greatell zeal, and the
moo ability, for condulting thufe proceedings, and
they had difcharged the duty impoled upon tnem in
fuch a manner as to deferve the thanks of that Houle,
and the veneration of potterity. The Managers had
been felellEd from the perfons of every defcription of
talent which the Houle polfeffed ; and it was hard
to fay, which was molt :o be admired, the able man-
ner in which the cafe was opened, the judicious ar- '
rangement of the proofs, or the very luminous and
forcible expofition of the law as applied to th it cafe.
It teemed difficult to fay, to what particular part of
the management of it, thanks were molt peculiarly

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doe. There was one feature •of this trial, however,
which mull engage their particular attention. Every
lover of the Contlitution mull he pleated to fee, that
all the difficulties, embarraffiments, and delays of
public jutlice. which had formerly attended impeach-
ment, were now removed, by the mallerly arrange-
rn:nt which the Managers made or their proofs, and
their declining to dwell upon unneceltary topics.—
He concluded, by moving,
"'That the Thanks of this Houk be given to thole Members who
were appointed Managers of the Impeachment of Lord Vikount
Melville, for their faithful management of the truß repoled in
them."
'The quellion was put, and was carried with ono
dißentient voice.
The SPEAKER then role to return thanks to the
Managers, who role alfo—he addreffed them to the
following effeta :
" GINTLISION—This Houk has, upon the refult of a great
and important inquiry refpceling the adminiltration of the amen-
&tare of the public money, come to a refolution to enter upon the
molt grave and Column of all its fundtione, and retort to Its prero•
gative of Impeachment againß Henry Lord Vikount
It is the power of Impeachment which hAs enabled the Commons
of this country, at all times, to by open the narked, of the highell
fervants of the Crown, and to prevent or punifli, all inroads which
may be made upon the liberty of the fubjed aof this realm. In the
profecution of this Impeachment, the Houk has appointed you to
prepare and arrange the proofs of the complicated tranfadions 011
which their charges were grounded. Their charges were againit
s Noble Perfon,whofe rank and high confideration in the State mull
hold him forth u a fignal example either of good or of evil LI all
perfons who may be cottoned with the care of the public expenditure.
Throughout the progrefu of the trial, they have witueffed, with
peculiar fatisfadion,yourgreat attention aid difpatelk, which have
refcued the trial by Impeachment from the Menet to which It hod
fallen, and reltored it to Its former Rrength and boomer. They
have witneffed In you an unwearied diligence In the difcbarge of
the troll committed to you, a fingu'ar (acuity in dikovering the
proofs, a boldnefs which fn properly belongs to the Commons of
the United Kingdom ; a ftrength of argument, and a power of
eloquence, which threw the light of day upon dark, ferret, and
criminal tranfaelione. The final Iffue of this trial now remain§ for
another body. It is before one of the Isigbelt of human tribu-
nals ; ft la the Houle of Lords, whkts to to determine ultimately
for the condemnation or acquittal of the palm) accuferL Be the
final URN what it may, you have done your duty. You have fatif.
fled the expeditions that the Houk had formed of you, and you
have deferred their approbation and their thanks. I am ordered
by the Houle to communicate to you the approbation and thanks
of the Houk for the faithful management of the tr lilt minded
in you."
The SECRETARY at WAR then (aid. that
although he had the pain of hearing one diffienting
voice to this vote of thanks, he hoped he thould hear
none to the motion he was now about to make. He
moved, " That the Speaker be requefted to print the
fpeech which he had jolt made to the Maness,' of
the Impeachment." •
The motion was carried nets. con.

Mr. PERCIVAL gave notice, that he flsould very
foon after the final judgment was pronounced, bring
forward a motion to prevent the thanks of the Houle
being given in future, until the quefliun fhould be
finally determined.

VMAUDITID ACCOUNTS.
Mr. ROSE prefaced a motion, which he intended
to make for papers relative rn this fuhjeft, by obferv-
log, that a late fpeech of a Noble Lord had led to a
general belief in the country, that the late Admini-
ttration was chargeable with great negligence in re-
!Pee to the public money : and thus not only had
their charallter been injured, but the general con&
dente of the people in Government had been fbaken
The Noble Lord bad Sated, that there were a
to the amount of aso millions. He had fince exa-
mined into this Itatement, and had found that fifty
millions belonged to the Bank account. But of the
perfeB accuracy and fairnefs of the accounts that
came under this head, he believed that no one enter.
tained any doubt, though they had not yet been an
dited. There were alfu arrears of accounts in the
' Navy Pay Office to the amount of two hundred and
twenty millions ; and, he believed, there was no
great probahility of many frauds being deteBed in
them. He repeated what he had formerly fsid, that
this accumulation of arrears was rather to be af•
cribed to the War Office than the Pay Office. Under
the head of Navy Services, there were ninety mil-
lions of arrears. There were alfo forty five millions
in the office of the Seal, with regatd to which the
fame oblervation might be made as refpeBing the
arrears of the Bank Account. From the whole he
concluded that there were about 429 millions of ar.
rears, in which it was highly probable that little or
no abufe had taken place. He next called the atten-
tionof the Houfe to the office of Commiffioners of

Audit, as it had been eflablithed by his late Right
Honourable Friend. The Aft had beeq flamed by
hirnfelf under the direaion of that great man, who
had fo much merit in originating the meafure ; and
every thing had been done to render it effeaual in
accomplithing its objea. The Commit:Goners under
the AO had been feleard without any regard to
party, and were men ditlinguifhed for their integrity,
indialry, and experience in public accounts. In
making there obfervations on the unaudited accounts
he did not mean to oppofe the new meafure propofed
by the Noble Lord, as no man could feel more

Rrongly than he did the neceffity of probing thefe
arrears to the bottom. His only objed was to vindi-
cate the memory of his Right Honourable Friend
now no more, who Teemed to be refleded on by the
general tenor of the Noble Lord's fpeech. He did
not know the precife powers which the Noble Lord
intended to confer nn the new Cornmiffioners- He
timid take the liberty, however, of fuggefling
provifion in the Ad, namely, that of iffiong money
to accountants alone, a pradice which hitherto had
not always been followed, for money had been if-
Cued to individuals who did not appear as accoun-
tants. With regard to the expenditure in the War
Office, which had amounted to ten millions a year,
his late Right Honourable Friend had intended to
propofe a meafure for the more fpeedy auditing of
their accounts, on a fuggellion which he himfelf had
made. He thought that the way in which the No.
ble Lord had introduced the name of Mr. Trotter,
teemed rather defigned for the purpofe of Mtge d-
rat, and in confequence of ihat name having been
rendered lo notorious from other circumflances.—
He begged, therefore, now to hate to the Houfe
what he had learned, upon enquiry, to be the precife
nature of hi. tranfadions. The !mule of Trotter
had been for fifty years employed in fupplying Go-
vernment with medicine Iloreh and perhaps, for a
long period, too much confidence had been repofed
in them, and their charges had been too little (Ojai.
ed to coatroul. But, in r 1, while a Right Hon.
Gentleman, not now in hi, plat: (Mr. Yorke), was
Secretary at War, Mr. Trotter had been required to
give in an accurate flat:trent of the prime cuff of
every article, together with an eftionte of the tx.

pence attending purveyortbip, and ten per cent. bad
been allowed him on the whole. (The Secretary at
War whifpered acrofs the table, that more had been
allowed ; and Mr. Role obferved, that fuch was the
account he had heard.) But Trotter (he continued)
could not be blamed for making a profitable con-
tra°. : the blame, if there was any, mull attach to
thole who employed him. He concluded with ex-
peeling his with, that every means thould be taken
I for placing the difpofal of the public money under
proper regulations : and with moving for an account
of all ninnies iffued from the Treafury to the princi-
pal accountants, and by them to the fub•accoun-
tants, fpecifying the accounts that are yet outfland-
iag and unexamined, and the balances cos all fuch
accounts, if any.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
role to fay, that though he could have no objedtion
to the motion now propofed, yet from the manner in
which he had been alluded to, the Houle would feel

.1

,11111

that it mutt be impoffible for him to remain fdent. I
The Right Hon. Gentleman bad not thought fit to
contradict the fiatensent which he had made with re-
gard to the amount of the arrears, but had content-
ed himfelf with laying, that the greater pan of then
would be recovered. He alto trolled, that this would
prove the cafe, and difclaimed every intention of
throwing any imputation on the thereafter and ed.
minifiration of a Right Hon. Gentleman now no
more. He had merely laid, that the delay in audit-
ing public accounts, which had increafed to fuck an
enormous degree, afforded means of fraud and era-
fion, which there was too much realms to fuflied had
been too often employed. He believed that nothing
that he had Rated on a late occafion was contrary
to the general feelings of the Houle ; and if any
part of his fpeech had been unpleafant to the Right
Honourable Gentleman in particular, be did not con-
fider himfelf as bound to make any apology on that
account. He had formerly Paid, that his Right Ho•
nourable predeceffor bad certainly introduced a
meafure which went to remedy the evil to a con&
derable degree ; though he mull be permitted to
obferve that he though his plan defedive in fame 4
parts, and that its full operation had been greatly
impeded by the immenfe accumulation of the public
accounts. He had alto obferved. that great part of
the arrears would be recovered to the public; but
was it not an evil to be lamented, and loudly demand-
ing a fpeedy remedy, that there Would bare been no
audit of accounts in the Barrack Department, when
the expenditure had been nine millions 1 That there
Would have been no audit for Hofpitgbatores, for
the einem: of the expeditions to the }Fader, and to
Egypt ; and, indeed, of all the expeditions of the late
war t In all there cafes, there was certainly a pot.
fibility of frauds having been committed ; and what
effedual means did the country now poffefs of deice.
tiug there frauds in a variety of inilances ? He was
not confcious of having thrown any blame on Mr.
Trotter ; he had merely mentioned his cafe as an
illufhation of the neceffity that there was of provid-
ing Come remedy for a great public abut*. He had
merely mentioned the different relations in which
he Rood as contrador, purveyor, florekeeper, and
auditors of his own .accounts; and Purely the 4
Right Honourable Gentleman did not approve
of one man handing in all thole different rela. •
tions. But be certainly could not impute it as a fault
to any contrador that he matte his charges in a way •
that, however profitable it might be to himfelf, was
yet permitted by thole who employed him. As far
as he had learnt with regard to that Gentleman, he
had underfiood that he had acquitted himfelf well in
his office of contrador, and that the fibres he bad
provided were good in refpea of quality. He had
alfo undenlood, that betides his general charge of tett
per cent. that Gentleman had alto charged j per •
cent. for extraordinary expencea, and the fame for
credit, making a total charge of ao per cent. And he
mull fay that, (peaking of him in his mercantile ca-
pacity, lie was in the right to get as much as be could
fur his articles. Such had been the amount of the
charges that he had made during the greater part of
the late war. But about the end of the war, he
agreed to reduce his charge for extraordinary ex-
penses to per cent. and to withdraw altogether his
charge for credit. He murk fay, however, that his
Cervices had been fatisfattory to the War Office. It
was only the total want of all refponfibility in his cafe,
which he had willed the Houle to advert to. He pre-
felled himfelf obliged to the Right Hon, Gentleman
for the motions which he had propofed, as they would
tend to throw light on thole details into which it
would be neceffary to enter. But as it would be a
confiderable time before they could be laid before
the Honfe, he Would afterwards move for other
papers that could be Conner prepared, and that
would in the mean time be ufeful. He alto gave
notice, that it would be neceffary, on various ac-
counts, to abandon, till next Seffion, that part of
the plan which obliged all per lons, who received the
public money, to deliver in annual receipts and ac•
counts of the balances.

Mr. PERCIVAL Paid, that as no objeßion had
been, or was to be made to his Right Honourable
Friend's motion, there were but two point. on which
he would trouble the Houfe with a very few obfer.
stations. From the manner in which this Winds
had been dated by the Noble Lord in that Houle. an '
idea had gone abroad that the firm of 450 millions,
which the Noble Lord had mentioned, was, for the
greateft part, arrears which were recoverable, and it
had canted a great fencation in the mind of the pub-
lic. The Noble Lord had railed a great expe(tation
in the public mind, that there are great balances due
which may give relief to the public burdens ;
whereas, thole van lions were no more than arrears
of accounts not fettled, and the miftake was owing
to the Noble Lord's talking of arrears, and arrears
to he recovered. The Noble Lord had found fault
with his Right Hon. Friend for having complained of
the tone in which he had delivered himfelf ; he had
Paid, " an espreffion might be explained, a midake
correeted, buts. toe tone, he could not anfwer for it ;"
he (Mr. Percival), thought, on the contrary, a tone
might be explained; for when a perfon was fpeaking,
either farcaltically, or ironically, of another, a great
deal of force and energy might be given in addition
to the words ufed, by the tone in which they were
uttered. The fecond point was, he thought Mr.
Trotter had realon to complain of the Noble Lord,
who had dcfcribed him as the manufatturer,purveyor,
fkorekeeper, comptroller, and auditor of bit own ac.
counts ; and that after alt this accumulation of tele.
'kilt, he had had the morigty to charge ten per cent.

(Hers Lord H. Petty raid, acrofs the table—No, I
day the awdejlty.)—He had. however, at this time, no
profits on thefeleveral heads ; for, from ificit, tbelii
profits had been eat down by the Member for Cam.
bridgebire (Mr. Votke), then Secretary at War, to
ten per cent. only. The Noble Lord had fince ex-
plained. that what be meant by Auditor of his own
linn•nnts was, that there was nobody to audit them I
be fubmitted to the Hoofe that there was a great di&
'trance between the Rate:sent and the explacati.m.
He wilbed the Noble /Lord to give a more corre6
illatamant, in order to give fatisfaaion to the public
mind on fo important a fubjeft.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQEE R, in
explanation, espreind his furprife, that the mere
mmiffion of the word aec,unts in the cootie of his
I cb, where he had loch frequent oceafom to ufs
t. 4 &swam a f accounts, fhould have been
objellad tOoremild have produced any mileonception.
Dr. LAWRENCE obferved, that the alltifion of
the Noble Lord to the cafe of Trotter had arlizk
him as only an illufiratirm of the neceflity there was for
removing the delay in auditing the public accounts.
Mr. HUSKISSON thought that the difectlfion
which had now taken place would by no means be
foperfluous, as it would do away much milconcep-
lion that bad been generally propagated. He added,
that it had been bne of the infirnitions given to the
Commiflloners of Military Inquiry appointed in the
LA &Son, to make inquiries into the caufes of the
delay in aoditing the public stecounts, as far as that
fubjea might come under their Confideration.
Mr. WILBERFORCE objeßed to a phrafe made
ofc of by his Learned Friend (Mrs; Percival). •' He
bad laid, that the matterc propored for regulation
were merely accounts unfettled andmnaudited. Now
be confidered this as a great and trying evil, and not
lobs treated as a matter of flight importance.
Mr. PERCIVAL explained, that he bad ufed the
espreffion accounts merely as oppofed to arrears and
balances.
Mr. PAULL abfemed, that fince there appeared
in the Barna Department alone arrears to the amount
of go.oool. there was great reafon to ezpoft that there
would be confiderable balances to be recovered on
the imittertfit fiats of 4so millions.
Mr. WM. DUNDAS repeated what he had raid
on a former occafinn. on the great inundation of ba-
nners at the War Office, and bore ample teftimeray
to the diligence and induftry of the clerks in that de-
partment. •

The •SECRETA RY at WAR confirmed what bad
been Paid by the Right Hon. Member.
Mr. ROSS: in explanation, (aid, that if the late
fpecch of the Noble Lord had given him any pain, it
was on account of the refleit ions that fumed to him to
be thrown em the memory of his late Right Hon.
Friend, who had intended to make the audit of the
fabge. iccounts More complete and fpeedy than it
bad before been. He concluded with ribferving, that
there were four hundred and twenty millions r.f the
accounts in meat, on which, he believetictbat. cot
a fraud had been committed to the amount of tool
The ilielitort wit then put and carried. • ,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEVER, on
riling to More for additional accounts on the fubjeB,
obferved, that he was nos confcious of having fpokea
difrefpettfully of hie iate predeeelfor $ but at the fame
time he would never be prevented by any feelings of
falfo.delicaey. from -performing his duty to the pub-
is Rating Mars which had esifted during the
AdminaratiMe at that Right Hon. Gentleman and
be was certain that were that great man now alive,
be would mot have rated him to abliain from any of
the &moments which he bad Made. He then moved
for a variety of lifts of accounts not yet delivered by
,Accountants, for proceeded upon ip the Office of
the Cornmiffioners of Audit, which were ordered se.
cordingly. . .
HOSPITAL.
The SECRETARY at WAR broaght up a BEI for the better
regulation of Ala Hofpital, and for making better in osifion for
Soldiers; which w la read a Sift time ; and oa the glitaiOn bcinZ
pu, that it be read a fecond time,
Mr. PERCEV Al. kid he did not rife to °plink the motion. but
to °blame. that no calculation had been laid before the Houk u
to the expeser attending this regulation. Six or (even weeks had
ebuied fine be Urft applied for an catenate of this kind. If loch
Irma wade be hoped it would he laid before the Houle immediately ;
and It am, ke would move tor it after the holidays.
The SECRETARY at WAR raid, no eftimate was yet pre-
fared, but on the (mond reading of the Bill he hoped to be able
to produce one.
General TARLETON complained that this eftimate had been
kept back, and that the report of the Army Eftlmates was made
an that day, at the time allotted for private bullock, and before
any Minifter came down to the Hoare. It would appear aa if it
*as intended to conceal every thing with regard to the army.
The SPEAKER thought it neceiTary to ftate that the report in
queftion was riot brought up until the dale when public bufinefs
was to he proceeded on.
General TARIETt There was not a GugleMinifter pre-
feat when the report was brought up."
Mr. ALEXANDER laid, he mutt &Eat that be bad brought
up the report, not only after the time of traufadiug private buti•
nefs, hat after Come part of the public banners had been difpofed
of. He hoped, therefore, the Hon. Gentlentan would not again
throw out Infinuations of this kind.
General TARLE TON—" I fay there was not one Minilter in
the Huufe."
Mr, ALEXANDER Paid, the Secretary of the Trtafury was
prefenh

Mr. VANSIITART laid, ft was fulleient for the Secretary of
the nafpry to be precut on Repot t• nt Committert of Supply.
The 8111 was then ordered to be read a tetond time on Mon Jay
finnlaht.

TNITC)LA SILL.

On the 'notion for the third reeding of the Torte la Free Port Bill,
Mr. ROSi Laid, he could not let it pafs wirtu,ut enteri..g I it
protelt againit it. The 11111 was alto oppofed by Mr. Sturges
seourne.—s(No reply was made from the Mlnitterisl /Much)
Mt. PRIMEVAL. fpokc to oppolltion to the Bill, and cenfured
th. Misdates for Coffering Inch a mature to pals in (Hence.—
nu..t was a proof they could fay nothing in its defence.
Ti Houle then divided for the Bill 13,againit it t a.-1 he Bill
was tl.stn road a third riot:•, and palled.