Star.
London, England, 1831-10-05 00:00:00

On :11 ran have was perhapsa popular assembly would not to I:ring his wind to it, cote for the second reading of the allow the bill to go to a Committee, but if yes do set, yes
a., rpm, Kinu William in the war agalast King James.-- 11.11 Thy Noble lord was loudly cheered by die opposition. will I and there, as the bill is made to your brig yes will
(Hear, hear) But all the wars since had boss prat. The ' Viscount 111E1.11011/IN spoke to the following efßet : amend and change it according to the ram inn NNW sod
war with America was popular till it wasitallelnimml (bear); " 31y Lords, lam most willing to concur with your Lord- Ned= of the House. (Heartbeat.) If ossi Moil im**
sod he would admit it was for same dote osodoesd though ship* In applauding the abßitp displayed in the speeds Where What course will roe Looliddis Num? 111/bs
the 6.R. •of the in she Newt e(Cammese but which we have just heard from my Noble 171-1,11; although de you propose If will Nig the lo fb Mal
. . . _ _ .
wide%

~li•tence _ _ crown
in flisenee was not so great now as then, or as in the time of
Sir Hobert Walpole, when there were :100 placemen in par.
hament. The number was now much leas, and yet be was ,
13 much of a refot—er, Out he would be glad to see that •
part e our system revised. He would also most willingly
rive rypresentati.m to large towns, and whenever he had the
dipperitinily of transferring the franchise of a convicted bo-
lottgit. he always voted for it : but though large towns did
11n. %1' warn inesithers, their interests were well protected in
pxli..ntert by snitvble representatives. He knew it was
not enouch !'nr a el‘antry to be well governed, unless the
maiorov tht, people—that portion of the people capable
01: judging—theught thems.:lves well governed. (Hear,)
Whenever the confidence of the people was lost, it was the
dul of Government to regain it, but not by changes that
would endanger the intukutions of the country,—but
by pp:tarrying what experience had proved to be valuable, in
the cootidenee that the good sense of the people of England,
however it might he deluded for a time, would return with
gratitude to their benefactors. (Hear.) He thought there
were no parts of the Constitution so decayed as to be incapa-
ble of itnprovernent. He was disposed to go so far as to
attempt to render the bill less dangerous, but found it utterly
impossible. (Hear.) The principle that pervaded the bill
woe, that population was the basis of representation. (Hear.)
He knew it was required that there should be 300 house-
holders paying.loL a heir; but why was a Member retained
to certain places ?—because they had 2,000 inhabitants. Why
were two Members retained to otberall—because they had
4 000 inhabitants, and this without any regard to property ;
rcw

cannot but tie! that much _— has fallen fain my
Noble Friend might have better suited a Committeren the
bill than a motion for its second reading. In what fell from
my Noble Felend in an early part of his speech 1 en Irely
rgree ; namely, that it is incumbent o:i the various Member
of his Majesty's government to explain the pounds on which
they support the measure; and therefore, without that intl.
minion, I should have taken an oppottu,ity of sating the
reasons which induce me to vote for the second reading of
this bill. To many of the arguments of my Noble Friend it
was impossible for me to listen without favour ; for they are
arguments which I have myself urged dasher.. If ever
there WAS an individual in the country more anxious than
another that the affairs of the country might have gone at
without our being forced to incur the hazard aad vapors
bili:y which must result front so great and funds-
men,al a change in the House of Commons, I was that
person. That great philosopher and statesman, Lord Be-
con, soya that the difference between civil affairs mad the
sciences was, that while in the latter there should be as.
thing but change and movement, the former should rest
for support on authority and reputation. " Verum In re-
bus civilibut muted° etiatn in menus (even if the change
were for the better) suspects est ob perturbationem ; cum
cirilia autlioritate. consensu, fame, et opinione, non de-
monstra•ione nitantur. In artibus autem et scientiis tan-
quam is metalli todinia. omnia noels operibus et olterl-
oribus progressibus eircumstrepere debeut. Undoubtedly
the perturbation arising from change Is to be avoided= but
then the other terms of the proposition must be observed.

you v.. . .
Committee, and there is no other billa %bit ben pesiesh,
If It is necessary, as is stated, to tltiaphk the
people, if it is necessary to gee Led.
ships *ill allow the bill to go to the Chmalmes. sad no
you will spare yourselves the mortification a Ns=
or of presenting some other bill. The
had been directed against the details ofatrbil
for the Committee, and I should wish to spore pint=
ships' time by not now discussing them. I will um gps,,l
therefore, into all the questions mooted by the noble mad.
I do not deny that this isa measure of great i
that it ewes a great change—that It will beril4=
other great changes; that other measures will be itseeitti
to carry It into complete effect. There must be a
in the Constitution in respect to Ministers having are.t
another place. There are some defects which may he $
other changes. I would not exclude Ministers from that
House, nor allow them to obtain seats there by any other
means than the voice of the people. I should be exceed.
ingly sorry to see such a change, but the Bill will make
some changes necessary to adapt it to the working of the
Constitution, and to the circumstances of the country g I
but to erect these changes, I rely on the elasticity of the
eenfti 11l lion, on hs adapting power, which has preserved
and improved it in times past, and will not fail, I hope, on
future occasions. lam departing, however, from the
rule I laid down not to go into the detail., which demand
more discussion than I can r.ow give them. I must ab.
stain, though that is doing the measure injustice, because it
la sot possible fer me to es. the length I wish. I implore

. -
but a peek of Commissionerswere to be sent to bunt I,
300 householders. (Hear.) There was no country In
which this principle had ever been tried but in France, in
the wildest period of revolution. (Hear.) What reason
could be given to all the towns under 10,000 inhabitants
that were excluded from all representation? and what rea-
son could satisfy those having from 10.000 to 20,000 and
but one representative, when places of 4,000 had two ?
This was an objectionable principle, as there was no reason
for it ; it was an injustice now established by Act of Pee.
liament. If the increase of representation, founded ee pe.
pupation, was given to countia and towns, what answer
would they give to Ireland ? Those who opposed the Bill
had a good answer to give—not to the agitators of Ireland,
but to all who valued the connection with this country. The
noble lord gave reasons for abolishing nomination boroughs,
for giving representation to large
_towns, and increased repre-
sentatives to counties ; but be had not given any reason why
the right of election was to be changed in all places in the
kingdom but the two Universities. He did not call the
right of representation property in the strict sense of the
word, but no right should ever be taken away without com-
pensation. in good government. All the boroughs of the
kingdom were to be ewept away as regards their permanent
st'Vern of representa ion. (Hear, bear.) Another objection
was, the great inereue of electors. s bad more already
than any other country. France was now regenerated it
Lad a population of 32,000,000 and but 2110,000 electors. We
liail already :)110.000. and by this bill that number was to be
daub! (Hear, hear.) No one could deny that the great.
est disorder and confusion moat be the result of such nu-
merous bodies of electors. That was to be the panacea ?
It was to four.d in the independence and intelligence of
the new electors. ( Hear, hear.) Their lordship* might re-
collect a pamphlet address.d to the Cones of Spain by a noble
lard nppoai:r, which rulvi.ed them nor to establish one uni-
form tight of voting. (hear, from Lord Holland.) The lOL
gaol le uion m'ght i t >o.ne place. give the franchise to very
properiperson., ha• that would not be the ease in all places.
(11:40 lie had asked himself this question, in what way
was the heat atoembly for governing a country conatituted ?
that what wouh! be the sort of assembly elected by persons
not merely of 101. per annum, but of 3s. 10d. a week ?
If a nutrer tts ecnstituency was considaed a security from
bribery and corruptiol, he asked noble lords to look at
Pu:,lia and Liverpool (Hear, hear) and at Westminster
while it was contested. (Hear, hear.) It was said the
' judges of measures, but excellent

. .
That which it is proposed to change most be supposed by
authority, consent, reputation, and opinion. If we find that
the columns of that support are sapped and failing—lf we
find that, instead of authority, there is a disrespect fur all au-
thoritr—if we find that, instead of consensus, there is Aster-
n*. if we find thr, instead of reputation and opinioo there are
aversion and repudiation, it is then time to look about us, and
to consider the situation in which we are plated it is then
time to revert to the first principles of the constitution, that
we may repair the edifice which is tottering and crumbling
around us. (Hear.) My lords, we have been told by one of
your lordships that we ought not to be governed crbitrio p.".
Warcs snow; and that it frequently becomes the duty of
legislative and representative bodies to resist the will of the
people. I perfectly admit it; else why have a representative
body at all? The wildest democrat in existence would
hardly deny the proposition. But, my lords, although it
may be our duty to resist the will of the people for a time,
is it possiLle to resist it for ever? Have we not in this
case 'existed it long enough ? (Hear.) I say this the more
freely, bream's I have on former occasions been in the
foreground in resisting parliamentary reform. Night after
night have 1 resisted it in another place, going far beyond
some of those who are now adverse to the present measure.
I always opposed in the other House of Parliament the
extension of the elective franchise to Manchester and Bir-
mingham. With reference to that period, I always look
back with greet regret to the droinstaness which deprived
the administration of that day of thesseviess of Mr. Hustle.
so. I shall never cease to regret them, for I shall always
think that he was not fairly treated'; and I own that the
occurrence first shook my confidence in the Noble Duke
opposite. On that occasion, however, I opposed the transfer
of the elective franchise to Birmingham, because In my own
heart I know, that if that proposition were adopted, it
must necessarily lead to a large measure. For why,
my Lords, give the elective franchise to Birmingham
and to Manchester ? Because they have breonts great em.
poriums of commerce, daily increasing in wealth and im-
portance. Because they are full of men of opulence, spirit,
and intelligence. Because they have arrived almost at inns
penal grandeur, and metropolitan magnificence. You would
give them the elective franchise because they have thus Its
eased. But the whole country hsa so increased—(low.
hear !) It seems to me, therefore, to be impossible
to resist the adoption of the large mauve. The NobM
Earl rays that, on former occasions, when the wishes of
the people on this subject have been resisted, everything'

your lordships to consider it well, not now to touch ibose
topics which will best be considered in the committee, but to
recollect the scenes into which you are about to enter. It
Y a great question you are shout to decide—a question in.
wishing the peace and happiness of the empire. 1 beg leave
to observe to your lordships, that there is a great difference
between this bill and that for the relief of the Roman Ca-
tholics, to which it has been compared. (Hear.) You hare
it now In your power to grant what will be considered a
boon, on which the repose of the country depends, and
which' s looted for with impatience. But in this hill
you arc not bound in any manner. (Hear.) You have
never rjected this, or any similar bill. Some of yoar Lord.
ships may in the other House of Parliament have repressed
an opinion on Reform • but as a body—as a House of
hers—you are unboundand uncomproinised. Your Lords
skips bare free liberty and power to decide as you think ilt,l
sad you will come to the decision free from the influence et,
Eau, free from all apprehension, free from all menace, free!
even from that fear which a noble and generous roiled
sometimes leads to rash and untimely acts—ftee,
Lords, from the imputation of fear. (Cheers.) The
Noble Duke stated at the beginning of the debates on
the subject of Catholic Emiuselpoulon, that he did wet
consider that be was addressing himself to your Laid.
ships' tiers. lam not of a different opinion. It is said doe
the great measure of Catholic Emancipation has not am&
all that it promised. I admit that—but 1 worditi
pat shed
ask, what would have been now the state of
had it not been passed into a law ? If the want of
success is to be ascribed to the conduct of one woeirt
has had the power to oppose the buteridal w fdebe
measure and delay its advantages, I mast say dist am is
the creature of your Lordships hands; your obstinsey pve
bin. influence, and created the power which he
to impede the healing effect of a beneficial law. hat 1:
should have had the power to raise obstacles to the peace and
tranquillity of the country, is a circumstance I deeply and se-
imely lament. Whatever other motives may actuate your
lordships, 1 implore you not to be guilty of the rashness
of feu; I implore you not to be guilty of the greater rash-
mess of delay. (Hear.) I will remind your lordship of the
address of the Roman consul to his council on going to war,
when he planned that masterly march which overthrew the
Carthaginian postal before be could unite himself to his
ether forces—a march which, perhaps, changed the deed.
ales of the world. The Roman army used not then to
aesthete ; and assured them that thcir safety depended on
• there -

people were not good
judges of men. But they must judge men by their coo-
duct ; that was, by the measures they supported, and for
that purpose he did not think a numerous body of elec.
tors well qualified. (Hear, hear.) He approved oftlei
popular election that existed, as it elevated the spirit and
patriotism of the people. (Hear, hear.) He would not
deprive ore man of his franchise; but the present bill
would deprive so many, as to make the people lose con.'
fidruce in the Government that could so disregard their
rights. Of all the boroughs in which bribery bad been
practised, it most constantly prevailed in those which had
three or four hundred electors. (Hear, bear.) He wished
to know what rota of Parliament they were to have. They
had heard of a Parliament called •• Parliaments lodoctum."
He thought that would be applicable to many future Parlia.
ment..—(Hear, hear.) How. were persons from the East
Indies to be returned to Parliament? How were the Atter.
ney and Solicitor-General and other lawyers to get in:o Par-
liament after the passing of the present Bill? How would
they have the possibility of introducing their own eldest sons
into Parliament ? It there was to be a House of Lords in
this country, it was proper that they should have the oppor-
tunity of quallying themselves by the exercise of their
talents aononge: the Members of the HMO: of Commons.
For the last fifty years he could not recollect ten Lords who
had taken a distinguished part in that House.; who had
no: been trained in the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.)
lie did not offer this argument to the House *pleas they
thought the people interested...4liter, hear.) There
were many laws passel for the good of :he country lately,
which woul.i rot pass in a reformed Parliament. Would a
reformed Parliament have passed the Ca bolic &mantles-
awl Hill ? Ile would not change the present system of re-
presentation on covjecture. The Bill, if passed, might pre.
vent some tuischiet ; but it might produce mischief which
so human wistlotn could remedy--(hear. hear). It was a
measure which nu Government ought to have produced. as
it was alma equally dangerous to agree to it or to reject it—
(hear. hear, hear). When the Government of the Noble Duke
was destroyed, he hailed the coming into office of the Noble
Earl. Not of the Mr. Grey of 1793, but of the bred Grey
h lied I.eard with pleasure in that Howie—(hear, bear). The
Noble Earl was placed in a situation in which he might have
done great good. He was placed between two parties—a
radical party and a party who objected to ail seferin ; though
he believed that party was almost gone—(bear, hear, hear).
He might have introduced a refurm that would have satis-
fied the reasonable part of both. " He might," said the
noble lord, •• have mood between the dead and the living;
and in my conscience I believe he could have stayed the
plague " (Hear.) When the noble lord appeared in public
life as a reformer, sir. Pitt warned him that he was uniting
himakilf inch a party, of whom he would be tile first vie im.
That party supported the present bill, became they thought
it made the rest of their work easy. (Hear.) If a crisis
ale suld arise, he was confident Government world do its duty,
and hoped that party would be broken. (Hear.) But the noble
lord said this bill must pass, or something etially efficient.
This tosb.d all attempt at amendment. (Hear .i Tier people
called fur the bill, but who has caused the call? (Hear.)—
The noble lord talked of bribery—was there ever such
bribery in history as was offered to 600.000 persons by this
bill? (Hear.) The people certainly called for the bill, and he
was anxious to treat their petitions with respect • hut he
roost consider the subject of their petitions ; and when it
was one of the most awfully import*• t, requiring the moat
eatensive knowledge of human nature, he might be permitted
to doubt whether it was possible they could for a correct
lie admitted that the 101. householders might be

has ieturned to a peaceful channel. For a certain time
that may be so, but not beyond it. Two of the great aere
meets against the measure are, that Reform is merely seed
as a weapon of party, end that the popular demand he le
Is merely a temporary clamour that rprings up whosoever
any general calamity occurs, end subsides when that
calamity is at an end. Admitting both these arguments ter
be well-founded, is it not desirable to deprive party of so 1
formidable a weapon ? And when your lordships see that, on'
every occasion of public calamity and distress, from what-
ever cause arising, the people call for an alteration in the
representation, and that the call is accompanied with a deep,
rankling sense of injustice suffered, and of rights withheld,
can you be insensible of the danger of prolonging such a
state of things ? What constituted the great danger which
attended the continuance of the system formerly pursued
towards the Roman Catholics in Ireland ? That it gave op.
portunities to those who, as has been well observed, • were
always lying in waft to take advantage of the distresses of
the arentry.' My Lords, she ful on dieser
of reform extends, your lordships do not know how ;
It penetrates, your lordships do not know deeply; It will
break firth with irresistible violence when your lordships
are lhomeing peurselves that the country is enjoying general
repose and_ palm tranquillity. I have already obeerval that
my noble friend who has just spoken stated ntanythlnp which
would have been better stated in a committee. Why will
he not allow the be tempi Into that committee ? I ant MINI
my noble friend ad hiesetitereet Injustice when be said AM'
his right hand had ss allt GOON ha cumin&
_that he abseil
be unable to adept any amlemn to the liM. UM**•
air doe _saints ill en extensive one. It does away with the
nomination beeensha i it takes away one ouraber frees she.
repretantatlon of a nwieber of ether ; k aliseellet
conuitsteet7 of berenshe—lt onestally quake.
dons. I allow that these are pot &wipe. .I meet mom
in tee on the Ileum ef Oemeees ibr May
in them. They are of greet Impoithile•v. ,and
demand dm. Bat efts so sea deliberate
duration, when per lordship d diet the Hoses of Cos-
mos has persevered in 11 dews this. Bill, wM
you at ones, and without gay ihinsden at all, reject it t
WM you re rid of the
swriegastaloldes, ens Proathe al
I know not what,—.cin a to he introduced here-
after
? I Implore the House * before they come to
such a decision. I imp's/terser le consider the clues-
don as it now stands before you. I your lordships
to ink yourselves why the measure was inteoduced by his
Majesty's Ministers,—.why it has bees adopted by the
other House of Parliament: I implore your lordships to
ask yourselves If the present state of thins can tang cos.'
dime ? When the noble awl said that it had been dedered
that the bill must not be leeched or i that it must
either be taken and registered by their or demure
out intact, he misunderstood my noble Mend. My sehle
friend's language by no means admits el such an inter-
pretation. There was nothing Is the slitentent of my
noble friend to warrant the suppeddes that he was adverse to
deliberation. But even if these week wish that *dry the
noble earl in rejecting the menesee Winne diellheenden No
The noble earl has talked of pepsin*, es do beds of the
messure,and has contended that that Weis is GINIMMILIA. 011110..
lation, I admit, is made the rule of the diermischissmaist 1
but that it is the basis of out plan of espeemsation, or that
it is our intention ever to make it the lode of the repre-
sentation of the country, I deny. The BM comes in to
effect an evension of the present system of representation.
and adapts it more coenpletely to the circumstances and
situation of the country. The question is undoubtedly an
. ..
• - noble r _ _

opinion. e a...
more intelligent than formerly, but what could they snow
of the effect of the bill, but that they wets told It would
make bread cheaper. (item.) %Vas it surprising that, under
such delusion, their table should be coveted with petitions.,
(Hear, hear) But though they were told by the press that
they must be cashiered, if they did not register the Acme=
House of Common's, yet he would say that House
never desert its duty, but should act on its own mewls.
Win—(heat, hear). They had been asked what could they
bops for in oppo.log the second reading of the Bill? There
was nor a body whose duty was more sacred than theirs; they
wens second chamber, and if a measure was presorted to
Meet, which was of an objectionable nature, it was their duty
teem the House of Commons aid the country time to con
alder of it before they gave it their sanction ; but as this
measure had been presented to them, they were asked to cos.
' "• wit

exceedingly large one, ion the h. es earl has argued it at West
length with an ability and capacity such sake alwayadispLys,
but be has argued it incompletely. It it Impassible, on a de-
bate on the second reading, when the general principle of re-
hem is the question--(No, no, from the Opposition side of
tbe House, cheers from the Ministerial side, and repeated My
me; from the other side). Everybody who had spoken bel
been anstious to make a declaration on that subject (dean),
alld it was hardly possible to make any statement in favour
WI the principle of Reform, which did not call ha an in-
dignant denial from those who, a few months Wham ed.
witted the necessity of Reform. When that is the ewe, I
put it to you? Lordships whether Reform is net he rowel
principle of the Bill, and whether that is not now she resin
or discussion (No,:no, from the Opposition) p Is it agawilio
to the course of your Lordships' proceedings to diocese he
principle of a Bill before going into a Commktee ; and if -
. .

a general for._-- at that tiine--4 bill he
the representation bad been in consequence brought=
by the noble earl, but be was not guided by the majodty
the House of Cameos spinet that measure—no, a dioeiv"
Lobo of Parliament was resolved, and urn that the pest.
sent excited state of the country was -prebie.
glancing at the countenance given to reform hi the
speech, the table duke proceeded to argue, that the poront
measure, whkh was now debated by the people,
forward by the government established a new sperm d
thinp I not a Magic interest in country or town, either la
licodand, England, or Ireland, realigned without being at.
tacked, if, indeed, two universities were excepted. He,
should not aster into all the details of the noble mere weir I
sant there were me or two points, hawser, which bomb
not help alluding to, and which had not been touched urn
by either of '-44 noble hear,)—

sign themselves to • new Constitution without knowing how
It was to work. Had they began to improve at Old Sarum
and Omura, and stopped shon when necessary N stop short,
he would have gene with them ; but as the measure stood
they must Arrays appeal to their constltuenti, end they would
always be worsted. He thought the redoubts of Naiades was
to aristocratic nisssure, se it would nowise emplownsut to
of fortune, to the ezthaskro Of talent. The Noble
=ntloeintled with declaring the. he considered the ay
for reform te be a mere dimmer, which would aeon owe,
sad be said be stela not, botrewilriniseh be had endeavoured

- ....mbalintie ;b. -. yell ' . - his 4 Meads pear him t (lb".
appvgie oFthst principle, -to "tio Inv s Commitsge ? Or are 1 tfieoudbout ,eu the wiry fa do baiddeesa des of
your Lordships prepared to say that yos elve of the Be- , this bill made neon he itanhimailiew shoe* 4
hem and will not go into a Committee (chests ? I appeal to the! he was penablek ea asea as rive bill pew% Am
Noble Bari who spoteearly ht the debate, who introduced ' would be Ommittees Ertl all Met the Oismay to.
a Bill in the beginning °Abe session, in which 4took a arneL ' sepeetateed denim, by. mower do real sheramsr a
datable interest, but which I taut say was of very telling the House of Commas be Menially chweigh He
important* as compared to this bill, sod wu as inesneistene objected the to the aanannm imam the Inndad gams by
as a bin could well be, and the Noble Logd resold your it weekd be very . Cerfilliwo at
Lordoldps to allow him to go into a Csouminge, merely en leaseholders la tottis,ll644lZerfitiir aspen* sighsa.
account of the excellency of the object he had in view. If maid vote foe nannty members, and aba landed jarianait
your lordships object to the petaclpls el Radreat,:you will not would thereby be mere ands the Indenter of let yoasob—

He believed that Woad, ander the pima gum% had
bete the bat 'named country, Is doe trail Ike die bat 11111
year. (Hear) A Nam or Cooptions einsinesi as et
resent mews ratalled, wealdne halblog dee thins
assembly, chosen by lameseralds
code is wakes it WIN,
• declared -

aerdsomirioo. Hs . It Radial Rim meant
k was net a mosses as the praik thear)t
so a 'bola, it must loovitabls Ju. to 111111101
fain, vote by ballot, and universal 1111 SOON Of
Calmness was answerable to the country for its akin IMO
a if liseeey could be voted without Its ...ihagre.
wasswary, then, was it, that its members should be
with propriety and discretion. (Hear.) Under the in.
Eseses of popular clamour, the Minister for Ireland had
away been obliged to abandon one measure (the Arms,
Ivied, Bill); •and under a representation formed in
nealiof dte present measure, such instances would
es
ntquest occurrence. The Noble Duke concluded
sintrtiat lanhdle the belief
that
country theer safee
ty sod
bye
of
the
tamiewe which should have his opposition. (Hear, hear.)
Viscount MELBOURNE said a few words acrOss the
table in explanation.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented himself
amidst loud calls of adjourn. The Noble Marquis said he
was willing to agree to an adjournment of the debate, or to
p on. as their Lordships might be pleased to decide.
Bad GREY immediately rose. and put the question it
adjournment, which was carried, and their Lordabipo,ad.
jounted accordingly at a quarter.past one o'clock.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Dlr. CAMPBELL brought in a bill to *WWII' Phi
regarding lines sad recoveries (pursuant to do 40.111•11+
dation of the Law Contos _ issiuners_ ) and to sebsdtate sipb
arat

process instead thereef.—Rend a . time, and ordereecto
be read a second time the 11th October.
PUPS RIMOINITRATEIN SILL.
Mr. SANDFORD presented a petition from Somerset.
shire against the Deeds General Registration Bill. He con-
sidered that the petition deserved the most serious attention
of the House.
Mr. STRICKLAND expressed the hope that the
Honourable Member would not press forward this
session his Deeds Registration Bill : it was an immense job.
Mr. CAMPBELL observed that the proceedings or non-
proceeding with the Bill, must depend on the length of the
session. If a certain event took place elsewhere, which God
forbid, there might be a tolerably speedy termination of the
session. In that ease, the Bill would of course fall to the
ground.
Lord MORPETH said, that it was desired by York.
shire, that it should be exempted from the operation of this
Bill ; because it bad already a Deeds Registry.
Mr. CA MPBRLL observed, that if there were jobs, he
had nothing to do with it: it has little existing system of
registration ; it required avowedly amendment.
Mr O'CONNELL declared that this measure would be
one of great benefit. It would prevent many a pang with
those who might otherwise take notions of defective tides;
and it certainly might alter the jobbing of those whose titles
would not bear the strictest examination.—Petition to lie
on the table.
Mr. CROKE& said no one could have had any thing to
do with real property without knowing the urgency of such
a bill as dais. It was important that tide should be se-
cure : and if this measure were adopted, the honourable
and learned gentleman would have achieved what others
had beep two hundred years vainly endeavouring to ac-
complish.
Mr. F. BARING brought np the Report of the Can
mitts, on malt drawbacks.—Ordered to Be as the table
and be
Mr. Vitt ATT A N moved that there be laid before the
house a copy of the memorial of James Newlan and others,
dated Aug. 11, to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, re=
the conduct of LUptain Graham and the Rev. W.
two of the county of Wexford, for declining to
receive and grant the required information on the charge
of burning the boom of the Newtownbarry yeoman; toge-
ther with his Excellency's reply. Also for copies of any
further communication received by the Irish Government
relating S.einsto....4grew.d

_
desadeftleg his Plea Wad Waifs mad that --.l* weld be ..Formal /VANS aid be was fully pomaded that there
119 delay—lie etweasest sow% food Wool dolor". was no alternative between reform and civil war In this
enserarisen orrieed•foosreall. (Cheers.) country. The object of the motion of which be hod given
Ike Duke of WELLINGTON rose and after a few name was to thee the people that military ammo. hal
ISCltobservations remarked, that the able speech of . ben taken by die late - in November last
laerLiend (Lord Harvowby, we presumed) bad not !to net spinet the math, that they might new be
lemma at all affected by the arguments of the Noble lard • prepared to assist the ldivernegan If neormay in the
Hiklbourne.) With that Noble Lard, in hie acknowledg- I preservation of the oda ln November last
tweets he agreed', that the measure was • these Mendel ewe* what the then Gewannemt made their celebrated de.
It was to trample down boroughs, divest corporations, I aeration edema Edam, they withaly apprehended
every thing came within its operation—there was nothing magma*, oa the part of the powthe and collected a
hat what was to be altered by the measure; and that Noble 1 lards military iota in sod DM she meuspelia, and made
Lord bad told them that they ought not to reject it frees a ; preparations at the Tower ter Him or attack. No
Ommemittee ; yet they had been told it must be followed by' one could suppose that these pigemmileas were made for the
oiler measures to make Government practicable. The No. defence of the matt beloved mama that ever sat on the
hie Duke said be bed eft= remarked k ass custom British throw-41,g were evidently intended for the pro-
with the Noble Earl who had introduced the Dill, when mama of an and.reroan edeletry. The boo. gentleman
be had a 1.10111111 to brig forward, that he oboes to criticise moved. That an address be oregano' to his Majesty for
we the hatileelle and thwidethedathethesather than to explain copies of papers, tending to show an Intention of instance.
his Na measure; sod each Wesho the case on the pre- denary movements en the gth of November last, and of
OWN evadag. be Noble led bad Indulged in allegations orders even to oaks any attack on the
list ta° for Reform was bow ewied to whet he (the Mr M. PARNELL said the paint= had laid no
Doke of Wellington) bad expressed when he had occasion to grounds for his maim He had male inquiry in the proper
address the House of Lards a year ego; but be weld beg ismer' and found that nothing more bed bees done than to
leave to remind the Noble Earl, that when that expreseiss have the troop. in moulage to await the civil power if no.
was weed to which se mach Anima hod been made, he (the coggary, (Hem.)
Duke of Wellington) was then the ENO Idiethaeort sad it ggh HUNT' gad he believed he estahl dive the oath
wee not :be custom fora King's &Mister to ebonies the In. earth al the jar-Was he duping resamting inemase.
Mitations of the woody. He would real to the Noble damp eagnethome at the thee be theetimeg." He had
terra recollection weeds which he himself hod used la the hoes in she haw of prong _ gahllcmak. at the
month of &broth% 1517, sad whisk he might omoreme I
at Hothatle, fee the purge of Partheemeary Ile..
with his own 7th skew Noble Dab__ pie-e- form, and that dam there wen lor SW Maas who
sanded to guns a speak et Sad Grey's la wide" he couli not get room, sod they seek two or thee id.oelessed
Mml detemid that he Ind amalliiedi the Howe el Conine gags, with whir& they marched over Illecitelimmdaidgo.
la lit the hem hadlailV she world be met the wasenedi i where the wog met by 49 ea bop"—wasbs sr whoa
Wise, and to pima privilege sad Mendes ed She I they were dbpersed, and their gags taken Name tray; sad
=• (Earl Osef. few aka of bows *MO ; that, he was sour/dent, was all the lasurrecties Hot bedlam
the noble earl ealweesteas a twelweawah adds • place and that woe was contemplated. He was embed
ha eight at lent to Itteee etweeedP lies the aside *the, 1 his Majesty might have walked from St. James's to Gan.
mid, en the occasion• whildhlad moths WO alleild Si, that hall without the least interruption; but be had no leak
be approved of the olaillitedell ei =hea IPlaillibinti said , she Duke of Wellington would have been hissed sad homed
U
that he had AO isnot a mosithith Al &be for his anti-Reform deciazatiou.
could not have invented a better, hmensh beellor allow- Sir R. PEEL said, preparatiees had been made es is
awe for the imperfections to the lainegthe of Ms, . occasion not to act spina the people, but to somata,
qe would have hod one the same whilst 1/I•PestY eivU power. He thee& It was possible foe s new wk.
was to PrePeederate- It wee as hltelther of
at
Crewe chkeees peruse ntacks a disturbance, in which many 1
that he had said that he would resist an reform, sodas a mi. bees mum be Mot.
sister of the Crown had be said that no reform was saes. ho jr. HAM:mu/mg hoped the thirst of the modes
eery. It had often heat repeated, that it was owing to his ' was sot to egeteey a notion to the troops that they midge
speech in which he used theme expression, that the cry for be celled ea to act against the people. He was theibleme
reform had now prtvaikd so WOWS • bat be denied the elk. • the - mew obey the amenta- dotal orders of the lea,
pdon—the excitement on that Weed lea year had boon ' esti" • wo
occasioned by the French revolution. It aspresed, that i cm. 'vim, nil, the object of his motion was awsawad
ewe day hetere the Issuing of the French thenees,
___ i against the •of disappoinunest, at the rumen
that his Majesty had dissolved Parnaiba* le &arch mew seenseet of aid to peewee peace-
the throne, and in the erections that followed the lam: The mons, was wed.
ben wen :hen bound to pledge themselves to Parliamentary Itsf_Olut: i`
~Reform. 11, e ”reiteated again that. it was
_,the rev°llldolla of Lord ALTROEP smt“d thee the Moats resolve itself
Free" ad Deleon that had ealestwwwl the a 7 into a Committer on the Reheat of Parliament Scotland
for reform in England. The Noble Duke then at. res.
led" to the aspersions that had been twat on his name General PALMER mid, that ft the proem was his lest
en account o the affair that took place in last No. epremnity of wain spee she ...aim or wean,
umber, when the royal visit to the city of Loath* was pre. be hoped to be allowed to stem we opinion of the
a
vented, but he could assure the house that be had now la his measure.measure.gge bag ewe held cite esei
e „pisiee ther ell a.al
pessaries documents to rove that their interference as that • lots womb, of eatem. and se the fa =wet of dee........1
time was not without foundation. (Hear, bear.) The aside oesseve. fieddeiiiais suss sy piths is that heseer"--, and
duke then proceeded to state, that it was rot a question of le eft that bed beet ,ig. pima In sad eat sg gt, melee, the
Parliamentary reform, which caused the napalm of the mow ughaos, he-Wdeutaimew wan. itTiTitu is.
la" ministry, al he was re") to admit that then wid **dot MIA Mt sr* ft ehod-imb bill, bat also
1
——- • - •

--ampoleas is-acceptiej allee Ist it Otitis- purpose+
Oho the heavy bat saissaded camps al disk oppeasats.
emilhess the dale be L se...iess Pailemeat, yews
show. there had boss ao lasedea beim 1S lavelviesy the
&pity et the Crows, the *sear sf Pediaawat, se the is-
sweet of the people, who.) his ileasmaide triads the
Whip had as* wady den their dutyo whibt ell that had
waded se degrade the Crows sad Per llaswat la she eyes of
she pephr, sad to brims the esaatry to its palm mese, had
%Ps ohs sok at et thole enemata. As se vim had bees
'lid the oohs* ay of the people, he nut beg to be ex.
ilia Oat *Meg *ore wee as awe seam is the ay than la
se pees to is it the.. awl be a skimming
it, h should be called the gamer, t fee es history said
at Rome, it wee that which wed the aphids so future
hasty world lay of it • this we ery
•_ . .

Was
which; ie canyiejg =ft saved the eseete.
taker, best.) ter elm WA hese the oasis et the ay ?
Melia the •aims be, the ay vas Ist sheet perlisessess
said the bast. de had always bees a Mead se the
belies, whims immedseieg ebo Essisky et aka eillesams
eh, were past Is; mei is &lama se ilie=:
he biped*, pram bill prevent its hes
is Ids gobs these eseld be as seal facia of
without is. The pease; (Wm esseiers, vbs. she U.
Leal, else bed se well deserved the beams el doe mew.
shim., setelisd so she Hesse, pas bin aQ the