Star.
London, England, 1815-03-04 00:00:00


sos. not me high. It the pmt period. All that
seemed to be required, w.ss to keep Curti for a tia
;it die present prices. His Lordship concluded with
expiessiug his intention to vote against the Arnow
went.

Mr. THOMPSON wished that 'every word that!
had been said in that House on the subject could be
beard abroad. The distresses amongst the agricul-
tural Labourers in this country were unexampled.—
&tore he had come Iron; Yorkshire, he had witnes-
,ed such scenes as would have melted the hardest
lan. In a village, where last year the people corn-
Alined of the high price of corn, they now exciainted
.igainst the low price, and said, we have food cheap,
)ut we have no work. We would rather have high
,;ice and some nioncy, than a low price and no
Imiey at all. This distress was the effect of the re-
loavon in the price of Cons, and the cause was the
InpAtation of foreign cdrn. If there had been no
nwortation we should have had corn at a reasonable
,ace, in proportion to, the price of all other articles.,
Ile manufacturing interests certainly had greater
•)roicciioir than the landed interests, and this seemed:
&ars to have been the policy of the Government.
.111 foreign manulacturtrs were pi ohibited, and there
A.As cloathing worn in this country from
crown of the head to the sole of the toot, which
.v.ts not of it, own rnsnuiacture. But the farmers
fiJ no such protection es was afforded to the manti-
A,-,n,rers. Tiiey quid not export their cattle, their
,al, or even the skins of the animals they killed.—
fiwA privileges of the nianufacturers ought there.
to make them the last people in the world to

- - ,
.!.!‘• any advantage in contemplation for the.'
7..:ets. He believed there was not one honest
ist.ire manufacturer who did not wish the agri•
of the country to be effectually supported.—
..Y..3%) In carrying on our trade we know both in
imports and our exports, that many advantages
o
We derived from using our own ships. It might,
:weever, be contended, that with many. articles we
r.:: ;ht be supplied at a cheaper rate if 'foreign ships
eht he e rapidest without restriction, and this
50,11.1 not be less reasonable than the opposition
;:yen to die present measure. In the year 1463 an
.Act was passed, prohibiting the importation of fo-
reign corn till the price of it rose to 6s. Bd. the
q.lartcr. This prohibition was not attended to—
corn was still imported, and the consequence was,
is 16J4, from a documeut of which he read an ex-
tract, it appeared that husbandry had fallen so
greatly to decay, that in villages where lormetly there
were two or three hundred agricultural labourers,
only two or three herdsmen remained. To export all
we could, and to import as little as we could help,
was a maxim which any one would allow was appli-
car to the real interests of thi, country; and if it
vpilied to one species of commodity, why should it
cat apple to nether ? If it applied to manufactures
why should it not apply to corn ? (Hear.) The
&advantages arising from its not being applied to
corn had been seriously felt, and he apprehended
...could 'ere lung be very generolly acknowledged.—
Already did the shopkeepers in malice' towns view
pith dismay the distresses of the farmer —in vain did
they look for that custom to which he had heretofore
been accustomed—the fanner passed his door de-
istted and distressed he was no longer able to pus.
ci;ase those little articles of luxury and manufacture
which had given spirit to trade, and that triendly in-
tercourse which had in former times subsisted, was
luken up. Indeed he had heard it as a fact, that se-
s had actually been closed in consequence of
t!:e absence of those persons who had been their certain
customers, bpt who now transacted their business in
de open streets, and then returned to their houses to
the meagre fare of bread and cheese— (Hear, hear.)
These were events which could not be disguised, and
thich lie trusted would operate as a convinfing rea.
'n with the House for passing the Bill before them.
lie would conclude what he had to say. to the House
quoting a passage of an address, which in 1802
'sae presented II em Prince Terlleyrated to Bonaparte.
1, this address that Prince, with whom he had not
ti,; honour of being acquainted (Laughter)--pointed
cat the beneficial consequences which would result
tu France from a peace with Great Britain. " Leave
tilem in peace," said Prince Talleyrand, " and their
noisters will be distracted by popular clamour,
v !rich will always be exerted and encouraged by de-
tioing men."—" Leave them in peace," again said
" and they will never think of striking out schemes
fra the increase of their population—instead of menu-
tAcinring for their own benefit, they will manufac-
erre for the use wf others." " Leave them in peace,"
said he, amid it was unfortunate that his words
lld been so prophetic, " and their Nobility and
Gentry will come to France, and in squandering
ther money and great riches among us, augment our
ncio:iat resources, while they enslave their own coml.
11-."—(Hear, hear.) Thie was the address of a sew.
'title man, who seemed to have taken a very close
view of tim English character, buthe trusted the Go-
vernment of this country would not permit such ob.
le:Nation.; to be verified by facts—(Hear, hear.)—
}6 entreated the House to afford the same proteciion
to tile tanner, which they did to the manufacturer,
grtd thereby ensure the prosperity of both— (Hear.)
•Jr lets means the population would be increased—
• •
stability of the country secured.--and the pro-
-1)4.1.'1 of I
ens avement by France rendered chime.

Mr. PRESTON observed, since last year the view
taken of this subject had in many instances been so
'4117,d, that those who then petitioned against the
r";tr.stire proposed, no lot ger appeared to consider
a step expedient. Next to the agriculture of the
.tar, he contended the manufacturers ought to be
but the tax which this measure could in
;'"I "be impose on them, was as nothing compared
the wag‘ .s they received. He thought ever,'
tt',% ,t 1 calcuktioil must perceive this was one of the
C7l
tit KilVmes that had ever been adopted to eclair-
t;'e prices of provision and labour. In every re-
:l- t he. thought it promised great advantages to the
t'ittutryi and therefore he felt it his duty to give it
warmest support.
MARRYATT had uniformly declared 13ini
:1 layout:6le to the principle of the measure, but
.11:4144 sting the protecting price at 80s. He tin..
the arguments used by an Honourable
to this debate to be founded OA the connec-
liptvreen the country banks and the price of corn.
• ..,considered nothing had been shewn to justify them
'."tag the importatiou price so high; and 4)11IY

:,;~,

eriecor appovi4g.that prim 414.1tes 'wend to,
vote for the amendment.
Mr. PrtoTHEßtig was iiiiiine ,ray Measure-
s defended his- constitnents fresn'the edit* of in-
eonsistency in not bringing forward evidence in sup-
port of their petition. They understood the Com-
miuee was appointed to inquire into the trade in fo-
reign corn, and the duties payable thereon, and had
thought the evidence they could h.tve offered in sup-
port of the principal allegations of their petitions
would then have been irregularly offered. The pe-
titions which had been presented, he maintained, did.
not come from persons in the Liwest situations of life,
who were incapable of understanding the subject.
They were signed by the higher ranks of tradesmen
and rmnolfacturers all over the country. If B(vs.
were named as the protecting price, it was his opi-
nion the average price would be very little below it.
dr. NVARDELL supported the Bills and com-
plained of the imputation thrown on the conduct of
an Honourable Member by another, who had spoken.
of the connectipn between the country banks and the
price of corn. Those who knew that Hon. Gentle-
man, knew him incapable of acting from such base
incoives as had been ascribed to him.
Mr. MARRYATT said, what had fallen from
him had been misconstrued. He had meant to cast
no imputation on any one. He had only referred to
the influence which a paper currency had on the price
of corn.

Mr. LOCKHART was not surprised that a great
o.utcry was raised against this measure after the de-
scriptions Mitch had been given of it by a Chief Ma-
gistrate, and by several Members of that House.—
The prices of wheat and bread, he observed, did not
always tally. In the country, at some fifty or sixty
miles distance, the price of bread was generally two-
pence under the London price, and it was a common
thing for it to be sent to town by the coach, and sold
at a profit then. The public mind had been inflamed
by misstatements; it had formerly been 'hewn, that
when wheat was at 90s. the quarter, the quay tern
loaf could be sold at 13td. yet a certain Chief Magis-
trate had lately said, at 80s. its prier must be from
15J. to 18d. He was not the advocate of any par-
ticular class of men, he desired to do that which
would prove beneficial to all classes. He anxiously
hoped another year would not be suffered•to pass be-
fore this measure was adopted. If it were not carried
even the manufacturer would suffer, and the free-
holder must know that for the penny or three half-
pence which he might save in a loaf, he would lose
ten times the amount of such saving in security.—
Those most anxious to oppose this Bill would be
found to be persons more solicitous to gain popula-
rity than studious to understand the merits of the
question. The labourers, wha were now reduced to
the situation of what was called in the country
roundsmen, would, if this measure were not agreed
to, soon become mendicants, and mendicants where
bread could not be raised.
Mr. PR OTHEROE explained.
Mr. LI.LIOTT rose to declare, that although he
voted against a measure like the present, last Session,
he did so from a fit m persuasion that the time was ill
adapted for the discussion, and because there was a
singular paucity of evidence to lead the House to a
final and deliberate decision. No person was more
averse than he was, to what were termed political re-
gulations ; they requited more than ordinary circum-
spection in their adoption. But notwithstanding these
and other considerations, from the information then
before the House, his views of policy led him to sup-
port the present measure as one most essential for the
preservation of the power of the country.— (Thor).
On all hands, it was admitted, that some regulations
were necessary, and their object was to select such as
would appear most beneficial to the general interests
of the community. With reference to the beneficial
result front unrestricted commerce, as a general prin.
ciplet be admitted it, but it was not to be taken with-
out us due limitations. Commerce, in its enlarged
view, embraced a wide range of interests, which rarely
could be crushed by any sudden extraneous opera-
tion. But inland trade was different, it was the crea-
ture of the State ; it did not depend upon their own
efforts, it affected, and in the present instance vitally,
all dr! classes of the community, and was, if unre-
gulated, at the mercy of foreigners.—(Hear, hea?).—
'rhe country was thereby committed, nut as in com-
merce, to its own resources, but to the discretion of
rival, and perhaps hostile powers—(Heor, hear).—
The situation of Ireland in itself called for the Bill
.;
that country was capable of being made the granary
of the Empire, and surely called- for, any preference
which the demands of England may require, and
which, if not sheltered at home, must centre upon
the Continent.—(Hear).--A great deal had been said
of the comparative wealth which different classes in
society contributed to the State, but this was not a
case between any two parties.—(Hear).Exclusively
of this, the principle of the contribution was erro-
neous, for wealth, though it evidently constituted a
fort, did not constitute the whole of the power of a ,
State.—(Hear. hear.)—The present point at issue
was plainly this-6g whether a linani should be held
out to a foreign market, to , din diseidragement of
your own r'—(Hear, hear)—and consideving. the
peculiar advantages which the Centinent presented,
there could be. no doubt of the quarter in which
the benefit must fall. The great difference between.
this country and the Continent was in the prices
of subsistence, this arose from the comparative
state of taxation, which of course hid, its scope of
action ; but he would contend, that iniffnal supply
was not only the great shitld of the commerce of
the country, but the prop of its manufactures, and
the pillar of its power.—(Cries of hear, hear.)—
Situate as the country was, a man must have nerves
of iron who could calmly rely upon France for a
supply of corn; that nation, as formerly, may view
the people of their neighbouring state with a jealous
eye, and place our people dependant upon a foreign
state fur their most essential article of food. (Near.)
Here the Right Hon. Gentleman expressed his high
sense of the manufacturing interests—they formed a
part of the solid prosperity of the country ; they con-
tributed largely, in their various relations, to the em.
bellisliment and refinement of the physical and social
enjoyments of society. ,But the bans of the structure
was land—the country had flourished, and
agricultural.--
would
stilt flourish, because it was greatly agriculta
I (Hear, hear, hear.)—lt vras.not situate as were other
blades ; from the nature of its power, it was exposed
to confederate hostilities,' and should coasequently,
I a% .Milrob as possible, limit s !Aspic article of its s,s.

tenant. to dm internal femme. within its own grasp.'
Su :* ' and population went hand. in hand-, and
the . r Armild* not be pro Bribed, without the other
bte
beiate flitifigd. In fact, ins' country like' theirs, no
pasittescould be reduced without involving another.
It "tip 'fair protection was held out to the agrical-
tiwilt, the gentry must suffer a reduction of their'
means—and would this entail no practical grievance
upan society ?—(Hear, hear.).—To • the renown'
of the nation, a protracted and awful contest had
called forth the spirit arra feelings of every class in
the country, every individual, from the highest to the
lowest, bore his-part with patience, perseverance, and
constancy ; it would •be hard, at the close of such a
career, to separate and overthrow one class of so-
ciety. What would becOme of the peasantry if the
measure were not enacted ? Were they not, of all
mankind, the least capable of adapting themselves to
any other pursuit than that in which they were origi-
nally engaged ?—(Hrar, /gar.) The political econo-
mist had always viewed them as the least convertible
to any other purpose of public utility, and if the agri-
cultural interest was suffered to be. torn. up by the
roots, the staple anchor of the property of the country
had lost the only hold by which it was secure.
Sir JAMES SHAW repelled the insinuations
which had been illiberally levelle.; at the opponents of
the measure, on the ground of their courting popu-
larity. Against the accusation, as far as it was aimed
at himself, he presented the past tenour of his life,
and would fearlessly abide the result. The worthy
Alderman then entered into a calculation of the last
ten years, to shew the probable price of bread after
the enactment of this law. Taking the general cal-
culation at 80s. he Ltd no doubt, from a reference to
the table of Assize, that the London price of the
loaf would be Is. 3ii. calculated at 9;s. from the
comparative average of the London and Country
prices for the last few years. A few years ago a
Committee sat in that House, and proclaimed 135s-
as the prohibitory price, and now another Comthittee
declared 80s. ; and yet with these conflicting deci.
sions, a man who refused his assent to their efficacy,
was to be proclaimed as scattering disaffection through
the Empire. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. ROBINSON would not trouble the House
again upon the general question, that had been too
ably and powerfully maintained ; but lie would limit
himself to adverting to what had just fallen from the
Honourable Alderman, upon the subject of averages.
The Honourable Alderman had stated, that when
the average of the maritime districts was at eighty
shillings, wheat in London was 90s. and ninety-five
shillings. On this the Worthy Alderman pinned his
faith. He (Mr. Robinson) would meet hint there-
fore upon his own data, and he would distinctly state,
with reference to these calculations, that the Hon.
Alderman's facts were not facts, and consequently
his inferences were not true; if, however, he were to
admit his facts, he would deny the inferences drawn
from them. The calculation was manifestly incom-
plete; for the real statement was, the price of grain
in the country markets, so far from being lower, was
often higher than that of London. The Worthy
Alderman omitted to state a fact which occurred
withidhis own Mayoralty, namely, that the price of
wheat in the maritime districts was Ss. S4d. higher
than that of Loudon.—(Lcud cries of Hear, hear!)
So it was quite clear that this calculation was wholly
erroneous. Here the Right Hon. Gentleman, uith
cOnsidetabli warmth, animadverted cm the conduct
of those who presumed to urge, after its repeated
disavowal on the parts of those concerned, that the
object of the Bill was to enhance the price of food.—
(Bear, hear.)—On the contrary, he would unequivo-
cally maintain that its main object would be to re-
duce the price of sustenance.—(Hear, hear.)-11 any
man could prove the contrary to him by fair argu-
ment, he would at once relinquish the matter. It
went, in his mind, in a clear principle of reduction,
carrying down with it rents which would entail no
evil,' bat in its consequences afford an ample fund of
subsistence for the poor ; for that reason, and from a
conscientious conviction that the principle and details
of the Bill would promote this object, he would give
the measure his warmest concurrence.

Lord A. HAMILTON contended, that if the
Bill in its effect reduced the price of corn, how could
it have so beneficial an operation in upholding the
agricultural interest ?—(Hear, kar.)—He had given
the minutest attention to the subject, anti the result
of his investigation was, that its aim and object was
to keep up the 'Nice of grain ; in fact, if it had not
this effect, he was at a loss to ascertain what could

be the cause of its introduction. The Noble Lord
repeated his former observations upon this subject,
an pointed out the close connection between the pre-
sent question, and the state of cu' rency of the country,
and the artificial financial measures which were pur-
sued by Government. He admitted the existence of
agricultural embarrassmenti, but he denied the possi-
bility of their removal by the Legislative protection
which was proposed. In fact, they must extend it
,to othei articles as well as corn, before they could
reckon upon its consistent'application. Above all, he
condemned the Bill, because it made its appearance at
the only .period in which the public looked to a low
pkice of food, as arising out of the return of general

peace.
Mr. POLE CAREW supported the Bill.
Mr. BARING rose amidst a cry of ag Question !
Question I" but the Honourable Gentleman declared,
that notwithstanding the anxiety manifested to come
to a decision, he felt it his duty to call for somewhat
more of deliberation, and to state his sentiments upon
this important subject. He should not, perhaps, at
that stage of the discussion, have thought it necessary
to trespass upon the attention of the House, if it were
not for what had fallen front the proposer of this
measure, or rather, indeed, if it were not for what
had net fallen from that Right Hon. Gentleman. For
that Right Hon. Gentleman had declined to state that
about which, indeed, the House had not heard one
wordfrom any supporter of this meuure,naniely,upon
what grounds it was thought necessary to agriculture,
to fix the import price at 80s. The nosse had
heard much with regard to the necessity of protect-
ing the landed interest and promoting the prosperity
oragriculture; but nothins had yet been stated to
shew the necessity of fixing the price Mentioned in'
the It was not sufficient, for the satisfaction of'
the House or of th4.popular feeling, to deal in vague.
terms upon this important subject. It ought to be
distinctly' dinned why the import price of 80s. was
*aired id'uttit beriefit of the landed interest, and
Anna suayttsaiation was naturally to be looked for4'
J

fro* the tight To. Gentleman, who had not, how.
ever, one. word about it f-lettrAho- itiatit HON.
Gentlenialt.tasteattl of vapid's:Woo, and contrary to his .
usual'practice, had, on this occasion, made up in vehe-
mence for the want of argument, and after some trifling
criticism upon the statement of Alderman, had
thotight proper to assert, that die object of the mea.
sure before the House WAS to reduce the price of
bread. This assertion, would not, however. serve to
allay the popular complaints ;fir the Same .xpedimit
was tried in vain upon the g.ip.:l4 net'Aitoide at MA:.
stone, by Lord Darnley. Bot the subterfuge was too
coarse to hive any direct. It wag indeed, obviously
absurd, for if the purpose and tendency of this mea.

sure were not to raise the price of corn, how could it
be said to hold out the prospect of remuneration to
the farmer ? (Near, hear.) Why, he would ask,
should Gentlemen penevere in supporeng such *
measure if it promised no benefit to the farmer, while
it was so alarming to the m tnufacturer, while it excl.
ted such loud and genera I cl 3 mour through the country?
The evidence would not bear the supporters ot the
measure out in their assertion, that the price which
they required was necessary. The real state of the
question was, that owing to the prolongation of tie
war, and other circumstances, the agriculture of tlit
country was in a state of distress from which it must
be as much the wish, as it was the interest ot every
class of the community, that it should be relieved.
That relief, however, should be but temporary, and
then by a gradual diminution of the price of lah•stir,
of the quantity of taxation, and of the amount of
rents, the farmer would eventually be able to culti-
vate his lands with advantage. But, 46 No !" said
the: supporters of. the measure, 66 we will not lower

our rents—we will support our rents as they are, and
the consumers of corn shall pay a higher price for it."
As to the argument deduced from the necessity of
rendering ourselves independent on any foreign sup-
ply, it WAS valueless. In things of a more critical
stature even than corn, in naval stores, we had seen slim-
ing the late war every combination of efFort resorted to
to prevent us from obtaining them, but without effect.
—What the Legislature had now to determine was,
whether or not the proprietors of land should make
any concession (he did not wish for a considerable
one), in order to enable the farmers to proceed ad.
vantageously with their tillage ? If not—if by artifi-
cial means it was attempted to support :he rents as
they stood, the consequences, by slow degrees, would
be these i—in the first instance, a high pi ice of corn
would be maintained ; —by degrees ti•is would turn
out of the country one branch of iiZistry after the
other; the population of the country would diminish,
by the emigration of the people in quest of cheap
food ;—the corn grown in the country would tl:en
certainly be adequate to its consumptioni—ultimately
the agriculturist would find out his mistake, and corn
would fall to a state of the greatest depression.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
begged leave to recta the attention of the House to
the stage of the Bid which WA bstine them. It was
the second reading. They had not then to determine
any question of price, or average, or duration, or
any other question of detail. All that they had at
that time to consider was, whether or not it wai
proper to adept any measure at all a•n the subject
and he presumed, that whatever might be the variety
of opinion on particulars, all must admit generally
that an alteration of the existing taws was necessary.
Mr. W I run REA I) declared that he had listened
with the utmost attention to all that had been said
on both sides of the qiiestion, and that the result was
a derided conviction in his mind, not only that it
would be improper to legislate on the subject, but
that great danger might be the consequence :of
legislating on it. •He gave credit to the Right Ho-
nourable Gentlernau onns"ite (Mr. Robinson) for
the way in which he had repelled so:ne improper
insinuations thrown on the motives of those who
supported the measure, but he was surprised at
the Right I knourable Gentleman's conclusion,
which was in direct contradiction to all that he
had said before on the subjet. If be understood the
thing at all, the original proposition was not that
rents were too high, but that coin was too low, and
that it ought to be raised to such a price as to enable
the farmer to cultivate his land with advantage,
without reducing the landlord to the necessity of lower-
ing his rents. But to-night the Right Hon. Gentleman
turned round, and said, that he would not have
brought forward the measure, had he not thought that
a reduction in the price of bread would be the conse-
quence, attended by the lowering of rents : let the land.
ed interest consider this—let the financier look to this
—let him look to what must follow, the reduction of
establishments—the reduction of the occupation of the
artisan, and a long train of attendant evils. As to
what had been said of the Petitions against the Bill,
in his opinion those Petitions deserved notice in pro.
portion to the number of the petitioners. To those
who contended that the people were not fit judges of
the subject, he would reply that they were much more
competent judges of it than they were of theology,
and yet it was well known that they had recently
signed Petitions in great numbers against the renewal
of the doctrine of transubstantiation, and the estab-
lishment of the Pope in England I As to the popu.
larity which might be obtained in the one way or
the other, those who made popularity their object,
would meet a fate similar to that of the boy who
rah to discover the ends of the rainbow, and who ex-
perienced a ducking for his pains, while the gaudy
vision vanished from his sight. He should have a
bad opinion of the House of Commons, if he thought
that on a subject like this they could be swayed by
any wish to court popularity. But lie would never-
theless advise them to remain where they were.—.
If they did not do so, they would speedily be called
on to Iggislste on a subject of still more difficult
handling. If they adopted the proposed measure
the consequence should be that in eight months corn
should be at a very high price, would not the manu.
facturer have a right to come in his turn and require
redress ? And yet to grant a redress adequate to the
necessity would in that case be impossible. The fact
was that Parliament seemed to him to he emulating
the philosopher in. Rasselas, who fancied that the
son, the wind, and the rain were all under his con-
trout, and that at his pleasure he could raise a tem-
pest or produce a calm. As for a temporary mea-
sure, that seemed to him to be the worst plan of all.
He concurred heartily in the amendment proposed
by his Honourable Friend.
Mr. ROBINSON explained. It was true he had
said that in bit bpittion the effect of the Bill would

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