Star.
London, England, 1813-02-24 00:00:00

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PARLIAM.EI4/Tdßr PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 23.
Lord MACCLESFIELD presented a Petition froth the Soar&
of Agriculture, praylog for the accustomed beneficence of Par-
liament.
:rho Marquis of HUNTLEY" presented, from ME city
Aberdeen, and from the borough of Elgin, Petitions avian the
exclusive Trade of the Bast India Company. -
I.ord REDESDALE gave notice that he shnuld tO.MOSTOW
lips that tie third reading of vhe English Insolvent Debtors'
818 be fixed for next Friday.
A ISTI-C AT HOS IC PETITIONS.
The Bishop of LONDON presented a Petition
from the parish of St. Olive, also from the Minister
and Eiders of the French Protestant Episcopal Church
. in London, against the claims of the Catholics.
Lord FALMOUTH presented a Petition from
Penzance, in Cornwall, against the Catholic claims.
Lord COURTOWN presented a Petition to the
same effect, from a number of
.inhabitants of the
county of Wexford.
Upon the motion for laying the latter petition
on the table, •
The LORD CHANCELLOR, glancing his eyt
on it, observed, that a great number of the signatures,.
it not all of them, appeared in the same characterol
manuscript, and as if written by the same hand. The
bbjectioo being aelnated, their Lordships declined
• the reception of that petition.
Lord SIDMOUTH presented a similar Petition
from certain inhabitants of the Ward of Billingsgate.
Upon the presentation of that petition;
'The Duke of NORFOLK rose, to move that the
'petition be read. It might appear,rather.extraordi-
nary to some of their Lordships that he should be the
mover for the reading of petitions of that description,
since it was hi the recollection of the House, that he
generally thought such details superfluous. -On the
present occasion, however, be was- actuated by a pe-
culiar Motive. He well remembered that 'tome years
back, when, he was a Member of. the other House of
Parliament, a petition of the same description, and
from the same quarter as designated that of the
Noble ViNcount, vrai presented to Parliament ;—and.
that the petition was characterised .by all that coarse-
ness of style and diction, which Was proverbially'
plied to the quarter wheticethe petition came. -
The petition having been read, the Noble Doke
gladly acknowledged that tbe style of the presenter.
tition was widely -different from that' of the pernicious'
petition to -which he had alluded: The kinguage of
the petition just read, so fir froth zit:o44)g wikb•the
style and spirit of that to which he find adierted, was
coached in terms of amity and conaihadon. At the
same time he must take notice, that many of the other
petitions on the table were of a very different descrip-'
tion. Many of them were mailed with _features ofl
strong intolerance and illiberality ; and he could not
help observing, that they appeared to have been pros
curedtoo much by the undue and improper influence
, of Government. The petition which came. before
Parliainent, in 1780, was said to be signed by forty
thousand persons, who therein expressed the whole
and frill opinions of the people of England. Recol-I
letting as he did, the injurious. and terrible effects]
produced by artful and insidious misrepresentation
- on the public mind, he could not help deprecating si-
milar effects which seemed connected with more re-'
cent proceedings.
Lord SIDMOUTH agreed-most cordially with
the Noble 1-)uke in the sentiments which he had ex-
, pressed relative to the outrages of 1780. But nothing
could be less analogous than the citement of. those'
two cases. In the former, every thing was •.* iolent
and ferocious ; and, indeed, some blame was not un-
justly ascribed to the Government at that time. In,
the present instance, the various addresses were cha-
racterised by a spirit of moderation and argument
that gave them the highest credit. /t had, on one
hand been asserted,-that the -majority of the Primes-
- • tarts in England were favourable to the Catholic
claims. That assertion was unfounded in truth,
and the Protestants accordingly came forward to
vindicate themselves from such an imputation, and
they had done so in terms and language the must de-
corous, the most creditable to themselves and respect-
ful to Parliament.
The Duke of NORFOLK explained.—Adjoumed.

minster, praying the contiftilaiatie the .
ties of the Room Cabolies. He (Sir .. Curtis)
conceived a selection had beet cast on the persons
'fting this petition by au Hos. Gentleman.(Mr.
Whitbread.) He would say, this petition was signed
by those who could read atid nftderstand it.
Mr. WI4ITBIi.EAD repeated the words he had
used, but denied having cast Nip reflection on this

petition.
Mr. Alderman &ark and Sir J. SHAW spoke 1*
tavour of the Petition, and the mode in Wish, a tad

been prepared. •
Mr. A. lIARINO said, the meeting which pro-
jected the Petition was altogether obscure, and no
more represented the people of London and West-
minster, than a Crown and Anchor Tavern meeting
of Reformists represented the people of England, in
whose name they pretended to meet.
Sir W. CURTIS said, the meeting was publicly
proclaimed, and was actually attended by people of
the first consequence and respectability in London.
Sir F. BU RDETT knew but of one public meeting
of the inhabitants of Westminster on the subject—that
to which he alluded was a very .numerous meeting in
Palace-Yard, and in the petition there-voted, he re-
membered there was a clause in favour of the Catho-
lic Claims.—( Hear, Hear, Hear.)
The Petition was then brought up by Sir Wm.
Curtis. It was of an immense size, and the Hon.
Baronet could not carry it without difficulty. Its sin-
gular appearance excited much laughter.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he hoped the Clergy
of the Church of England would always chew them.
selves enlightened, and not endeavour to keep their
flecks in d-arkne,ss. Certainly' those who signed so
voluminous 'a Petition could not all know what they
were signing.
Sir J. SHAW said, that- tee thonsand people of
the first respectability had put their names to the
Petition.
Mr. B. BATHURST said, the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Whitbread) had presented Petitions of people
who lived remote from him, andoyet he had been
reedy to say, that all those who signed the Petitions
' which he presented, had previously weighed and con-
sidered them.
After a• short conversation between Mr. Ssirrn
Mr. WKITBREAD Mr. GIBBS, and Mr. BARING, the
I Petition was ordered to be brought up and to lie on
the table.
Sir W. CURTIS presented two other Petitions
against the Catholic Claims, from St. Olave, and an-
other Ward of the City of London, which was or-
dered to lie on the table. •
Mr. FINLAY presented Petitions from Dumbar-
ton and Glasgow, against theEastlndian monopoly.
Mr. EGERTONpresented a Petition signed by
three thousand of -the people of Chester, against the
Roman Catholits.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The Engßelt and Scotch Local Maitia Bills were read a second
time, and ordered to be committed tti-morrow.
The Starch Bill was read a third time and passed.
The following Members were balletted and ordered to meet
In the Coninittee, to consider the contested Election Petitions
of 4regosny : Lord Viscount Clive, Mr. Doreton, Mr. Wyatt,
Mr. B. Shaw, Mr. J. Cotter, Mr. Pringle, Mr. Horriek, Mr.
Calvert' Mr. Brownlow, Bradshaw4W. H. Thornton,
Mr. H. Beech, Mr. Ports, Mr. Catiley, Mr. Tierney.
The fallowing Members wire baliotted as a •Conunittm to
consider the contested Election Petition of Stamford: Mr. James
Lowther, Mr. Howard, Lord C. Somerset Right Hon. F. Ro-
binson, Mr. Houtgon, Mr. Lowther, Right Hon. C. Yorke,
Mr. Richard Wharton, Lord G. L. Gower Mr. L. nundas,
Mr. Mellish, Lord Yarmouth, Lord Pabnerstoss, Mr. Swan,
Mr. Davies Giddy.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he held in his hand a
Petition from certain witnesses who had been sum-
moned to attend the Committee appointed to.exa-
mine the contested Election Petitions of Great
Grimsby. It appeared, that although they attended
in dtie time, they had not been called to give evi-
dence, and being totally destitute of money to defray
ite expenses of their return tome, they had been
ihaticed to prepare a Petition to Parliament praying
for such relief sas might restore them to the bcsom of
their families.. The Petitioners mentioned, shat they
had applied cn London Bridge, to John Henry Loft,
who informed them •that he had no money. He
therefore moved, that the Petition Should be referred
to .a Coaimittke,

The '6PEAIC.ER said, the Petition was well
Worthy of the attention cf the House. The Peri-
ticners had applied to hiin concerning the steps ne-
cessary to be taken, and he informed thew that no
precedent existed by which such a case would be
judged. Therefore, whatever might be done now,
wotild be altogether new. Hitherto parties had re-
catered their expenses by law ; but he hoped some-
Ailing in the present case wild be laid down to which
they might apply as a guide through similar diffi•
culties in future.
The Petition was then ordered to be brought up,
' a Committee was appointed to examine the mat
thereof warmrrow.
tlr. WHITBREAD said, he was desirous to pre-1
a Petition to the House in favour of the Cathtilicl
;11,s, signed by the amiable and excellent Mr.Wy.
le, and other liberal minded Christians. all of

Mr., BUTTERWORTH presented. a Petition
from Cardigan, against the Roman Catholics, and
Mr. W. W. WYNNE presented a Petition from the
same neighbourhood in their favour.
Lord CASTLEREAGH presented a Petition
from the county of Down,against theCitholic claims.
Mr. D. GIDDY presented a similar Petition from
Bodmin.
On the motion of Lord CASTLEREAGH, the follow-
in, Members, who had been taken into custody by
the Serjeant at Arms, were dismissed on payment of
their fees :—Messrs. Mowbray, glee, Coolie, Han-
bury, Taylor, and Warton.
DUBLIN PETITION.
The SPEAKER informed the House, that he
had received a letter from the Lord Mayor of Dub-
lin, respecting the mode of presenting a Petition to
the House, from the Magistrates and Corporations
of that city. The letter represented, that the Ma-
gistrates and Corporations of Dublin, having prepar-
ed a Petition against the claims of the Roman Ca-
tholics, had deputed him to deliver the same, and he
hoped to be indulged in delivering it at the Bar of
the House of Commons, according to the ancient
usage of the Parliaments of Ireland.
Mr. GRATTAN said, though he did not concur
with the citizens of Dublin, in the prayer of their
Petition,• yet. he felt anxious to do them all the ho-
nour in his power. It was both his disposition and
duty to distinguish the second city in the Empire,
and therefore he would move, that 0, the Lord Mayor
of the city of Dublin be admitted to present the Re-
tition of the Magistrates and the Corporations at the
Bar of the House," according to the mode of receiv-
ing Petitions from the Lord Mayor, Magistrates,
and Coporations of the city of London.
Mr. SHAW seconded the Motion.
Mr. WYNNE said, the Petit?ons from the city of
Edinburgh, the metropolis of an ancient kingdom,
had been always received in the ordinary manner, and
he conceived that it world be improper to comply
with the present inotion, inasmuch, as the worshipful
the Lord Mayor of Dublin would have to cross the
seas, whenever any petition, public or private, was to
be presented at the Bar of the House.
Mr. PEELE said, under the particular Circum-
stances of the case, he hoped the House would con-
sent to the motion of the Right Honourable Gentle-
man. Besides, the Lord Mayor bad already arrived
in London, anxious to fulfil the object of his mission,
and his accomplishment of it would be very agree-
able to the Corporations of Dublin.
Mr. TIERNEY said, the Lord Mayor had acted
very hastily in coming to London, before he knew
whether he would be permitted to present the Peti-
tion at the Bar of the House oir not. He hoped,
however, he would be entertained by the .Secretary
for Ireland with ail due hospitality.—(4
Mr. W. FITZGERALD was enzioes that the
Lord Mayor should accomplish his mission in its
fullest extent ; since he had arrived, it was improper ,
to offer him any indignity.
Mr. WHITBREAD inquired, whether it had
been the custom of the Irish Parliament to receive
the Dublin Petitions at the ,Bar of the House ?
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he could not speak;
Qpsitively to the question Which the Honourable'
entlernan had put. He was conscious that the
House felt considerable difficulty in the present case.
—However, he peroePred a general anxiety in the

,

&hi fork wu then contended on the other side, and as I think
sa, on a quite unanswerably; that the true doctrine of the
people of- Constitution was, that in the failure of a capacity to
extended perform the functions of the Crown, those functions.
immediately devolved to the Heir Apparent. The
A signal honour principle, however, which was maintained success:
presenting the pe. fully was, that the Heir Apparent had nn ,greater
tar media tea pro. eight thanaay other tubjectia the lintel' dononions.
teed frost} VOlao flight of the corporations. True it is that there can be no positive right where
The SPEAKER said, the HolliC bad the power the law has not defined it, but upon every inference
of either refusing or granting the application ; there ' of analogy, every argument ofprudence, and every
was no standing Order thot fiarbade•it. In 1690, it grind& of the monarchy, if not as a right, die de.
was the phistsnli of the Hood got to receive tae pe, volution of the Regal powers to the Heir App treat
tidOn. of the Clty of Lawton ta-ethe whole deptiodet Vag the proceeding most eonsottant to the dictates of
upon the courtesy of the House. - sound policy. Had the peat:utile of tha glorious re.
Mr. PONSONBY was clot aware that the petition , volution 1688
keen adopted any! ii no ins
ia
was of such importappe thataalt requiesd to be pre- aeedgeson would have taken place of rive months du-
sented in a manner an moiler, nui the Right Ho- ration, no Minister through that period would
nourable Gentleman intend to make the vela npapaa. have Inwood the functions ni Goers:maw aqd Ong
sal, 6r confine it to one single instance I . If they, prerogatiies of Royalty, whilst the leading princiedd
made it sVigle, theft it spewed that there was of the Constitution could have remained iiiviolvite and
something...in the favour proper to be withheld rpm ' uriassairecl. I cannot see the force of the plea of as.
others. cessity tarn odd ip defence of die new mode of me,
The CHANCELLOR of she EXCHEQUER viding for the emergency, baaetisa 1 have learned to
said a few words in supprt of the motion. believe that the legal exercise of the functions tithe
Mr. CROKER said, though be felt himself hostile 'Crown is essential to the admiaior ition of the Go-
to the prayer of the Petition, yet he was anxious that vernment. There are_ two principles which I may
'all due honour should be paid to the Civil Represen- safely assume,' fundamental to the monarchical part
tative of the City of Dublin. To present the Petition of the Coostitution, that the properties and preroga.
at the Bar of the House was prayed for as an indul-
tares of the Crown are anneted to it by hereditary
' gence only : he hoped it would be conceded, with all descent; the other, that its powers are oever sus•
the accustomed courtesy of the House. panted, because, in that use, all law, and all legit
After '
a few words from Mr. kortsoonse and Mr. government, are dissolved. These principles were,
TIER si
however, violated in 1788, and des example, which
er,
Mr. PEELE observed, that he understood the should have served as a beacon to be avoided, was
Lord Mayor of Dublin had two Petitions ; one of ' followed on a similar occasion, and for similar pus.
them against the renewal of the East India Corn- poses in 1811. In the intermediate period indeed
parry's Charter, and the other of that description there is sufficient evidence bet re the public to prove
which required the previous sanction of the Crown. that, for a considerable time during the incapacity of
The SPEAKER observed, that the letter which his Majesty, which incapacity was concealed, the Mi-
he bad received referred to only one Petition, the re- nisters of that day did -actually use the King's name,
ception of which, therefore, could alone be a question and exercise his authority, in carrying on the mea-
sures the decision of the House. sum of the Government.--(htear, lear.)—To me,
Lord MILTON said a few words. these violent inroads upon the legitimate powers of
Sir J. SHAW observed, that the letter of the the Monarch appear in a point of view, not more
Mayor of Dublin claimed that as a favour which the destructive of the dignity and safety of the Crown„
City of London enjoyed and exercised as a right. than injurious to the rights and interests of the peo-
The SPEAKER here rose, and stated, Nit ac- pie. In -the other cases in which the two Houses
cording to all the ancient -usages of the House, no had claimed and exercised the power of supplying
person could knock at that door and demand it to be the capacity of the Crown, the miserable fiction by
opened, with the exception of' the Crown. The indul- which they attempted to consecrate an illegal act,
gence granted by the Hi use was not to be considered and to give a pretended Royal assent to their own
as saoctioning the possession of an imaginary right. exclusive resolution, rendered the rireceeding, in my
Sir J. SHAW aclosowlealged tint he had fallen estimation, still more exceptionable. My object is,
into an error, in using too strong a word, and that the to prevent the recurrence of ouch scenes, and to
privilege long enjoyed by the City of London did guard, in future contingencies of the same kind,
not amount to a positive tight. against the assumed nets-sity of a majority in the
. Mr. COMBE, in a few words, observed, that the two Houses arrogating to themselves the exercise
practice of receiving petitions at the Bar could not De of Al the functions and prerogatives Of the Croats.
maintained as a right, although he tiusted that prat- But the two Homes, on the occasion to which I
tice would not be disallowed. have referred, went still further; they were net
After some further covereation, Lord COCH. content with nominating the successor to the Go.
RANE moved, as an amendment, that the words vernment, but they imposed restrictions on those
o and the Lord Provost of Edinburgh," should be prerogatives which were annexed by the' coniinoo
added. law to the office and character of the Sovereign.
Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that the pre- The shackles with which the princesteittalko .tet-
sent question did not involve a general rule, which tered had so far indisposed his loyal Highness to.
the amendment of the Bill had implied, and he did wards the acceptance of the Regehey,,that in akV
not therefore think that this was a proper occasion`for ter, containing a most perspicuous and eloquent view
the introduction of a new question. of all :he material avtosnents in the question, he de-.
Lord A. HAMILTON agreed with the Noble dared, that no considersttione would leave prevailed
Lord, provided the rule in question was not under- with him to assume the Government, did. he not ap-
litood to have any general application. prebend that the most serious public evil might grime
Mr. TIERNEY was of opinion, that the Lord front his refusal. It is not.wy tsish 10 wggest ad-
Provost of Edinburgh would net be very ambltious ditional reasons of a different description for adopting
of this new distinction, or eager in availing himself of some timely provision, 2nd it iral be necessary only
this new privilege. to refer in general to the calainitias which have at
After a few worts from Mr. BRAGG; the question former periods of our history been produced by a
was put, and carried in the affirmative. . disputed succession, and which .might be again vi-
Mr. Whitinore was ordered to be discharged from sited on the nation by a similar event. It is the duty
the custody of the Serjeant at Arms, on paying fees. of the Legislature to protect the public trom this
On the motion of Sir C. MONCKTON, leave of ab. danger, and to prevent future Minister* from usurp-
Pence was granted to James Ridley, Esq. he being ing to themselves the Government of the country.—
lammed in the execution of a public commission. Should the motion which I shall submit be agreed to
Mr. DAVIES GIODY postponed his motion respect-- 'I shall then enter more distinctly into the view Which
ing Copyrights till to morrow. . - I entertain of the proper measure to be adopted. Its
object, as I have before stated, is for leave to bring.
REGENCY, AND PRINCESS CHARLOTTE in a bill o for
the purpose of providing for the
OF WALES.
, . Regency in t•: event of the demise of the Prince
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT then rose and spoke Regent, living the King." The measure which I
to the following effect :—" In rising, Sir, at the pre- have in contemplation will vest the Concentrated
sent moment, in pursuance of the notice' which I powers of the Regency in the Heir to the Crown.—
gave on a recent occasion, 1 feel some degree of em. The principles on which I conceive this step should
barrassment and reluctance in calling the attention of be taken is, that the incapacity proceeding from in-
' he House to the subject of it ; after that.attention sanity is .like every other species of incapacity.
has been engaged, anJ in a great measure exhausted, even that of personal decease, an utter vacating of
by the protracted discussion of other questions. The the Government. But the powers of the Coo
object, however, which I have in contemplation ap. not annexed to it as the property or personal
pears, to my dgment, to be so clear and simple in of the individual wearing it, but are vested
itself, and tom' recommended at the same time by be exercised upon public principles, for the .
such strong and obvious consideration of expediency, and good government of the people. 1 shall
that I cannot but entertain some confidence of ob- cure to assume it as a leading principle of thr
taining, in these views and consideration, the acquies. mon law? that the Crown knows no infancy, •
cenee of the House. Clear, however, and indisputa. in the case of a demise, it passes immediate)
ble as the arguments are in favour of the measure, successor. Why net apply this maxim of ti
which it is my intention to conclude by proposing it stitution to other analogous cases ? The n
as a measure of the very highest importance to all which 1 shall have the onupr to propose, set
the great constitutional interests of the country, be to afford the most obvious remedy, and to 1
intimately affecting the future dignity, honour, plicable to every state of circumstances or t
and safety of the throne, and not less essential to gency that can arise. It is hardly necessary ti
the security and legal government of the subject.-- should allude to those rumours which have pi
Sir, I have before, on various occasions, submitted to lated, of my being animated, on this occasion,
_b
the House the reasons which induced me to think it spirit of hostility to his' Loyal klitthille "'e rri'
' wise and necessary to solicit the attention of the Regent. I may safely say, that lam influenced
Prince Regent to this question, and have had the no such feeling, and that, in All 1 rove ever-said
honour of moving, although not of carrying, two done, in public, I have been actuated by a sender.
Addresses for this purpose ; and being desirous too of respect for his Royal Highness, a respect ;
that the subject should be taken up by some person ceediog from my confidence in those public pill
of greater capacity and better qualified for the task, pies to which he had preferred- his atoichmenalli
I should not have stepped' forward had I found any hear.) I thought I saw in him a nish to unite to
other individual disposed to regard the question in closely together ihe common interests of the tin
precisely the same point of view with myself. It ap. and people, a desire of building the honour of
pears then to me, that of late years very violent en- former on its only psrmoneut Intl solid basis,
creoc.hments have been made upon the true prima affections of his subjects—(Hsa', Hear.) 1 lot
pies and framedof the Constitution, by the expedient upon him as the foetal and advocate tit those
resorted to in providing toi the consequences of his ciples which his family was called into this toe
Majesty's allies and consequent incapacity in 1788 to maintain, I indulged the hope that he v. ould c
land in 1810. lam far from wishing to mingle in the restorer of the nation to that safety and pi,
ohis discussion any personal animadversions, or to in- rity which it formerly enjoyed, that its lib
troduce any allusions to men or things not neces- would have been cherished by his footing in
drily connected with the point at issue. But I don, that his reign would have been blessed by
must observe that these departures from the line of who happened to live under it, and regarded 1,3
proceeding, dictated by the Constitution, seem to have terity with gratitude and veneration—( tieer. A
originated in the designs of a faction which was then I might appeal indeed to his own exsellent Leti
i
in power, and whose only view in the measures which the Address of the two. Houses as evidence
, they supported was to secure to themselves the con. sentiments, and ist reasons for those expectata
fumed possession of that power.—(Hear, hear.)—lt opinions which I entertained. So briefly

.-aud
ler I
sent
casil
*Mt

nom whom had thligeo,dy fermi& the contentstl ' 'ye the Lord Maros with the true
which tbeY had Wined t and he : 'on, and should the ganle demand
court be laid of °that petidotts prmented to. 11, , wally imports! be Riede by the peep
Itactie volunlitoui than die present.—Or. tli di h, the same iniful,nce would be en'
Bawl brought Up 4541 tb lie on she tahhei - the Lord Provost of that eity.
Par- Sir V.T. CURTIS said, he het a Petition Bst .. Mr. TIERNEY could nos see "ha( signal h
him
_, him of immense dimensions, being signed by no.I would be conferred on Dublin by presenting fl
r; tl7 -than 60,066 of the inhabitants of Leßon And- West. ion Attie Bay. He conceived the proposal
minster, praying the conallasicie of the Tool disal* ope from simte flight of the corporations.
myrevr ties of the Amain Catholics. He (Sir W. Curtis) The SPEAKER said, the Hain hut the

---0 - incapacity,
vacating of
Crown are
rsonal rights
sted in it to
the benefit
I shall yen-
of the corn-
,cy, and that
liately into a
of the Con-
'he measure
se, seems to
lid to be ap-
es or emer-
!wiry that I
have pircu-
casion, by a
s the Prince
sauenced by
ever-said or
a sentiii.eas.
respect pIL.-
tigig:ti //Art
; unite mom
' the throne
no= of the
id basis, the
)I 'looked
those rill'
this country
%%mild pro.
and proPe'
its libetues
ling proms.
,sed by thou
rJed by PI;
Veen h0r...4
nt Latter 7,
dente 014"
!Ctatiolli
of and Ye
_