Star.
London, England, 1813-05-12 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 1813.

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PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 11.

The House met in a Committee of Privileges on the Stafford
Peerage.—Farther proceediogs on Thursday.
Several Petitions were presented by various NO:: Lords for
the propagation of Christian Knowledge.
The Duke of MONTROSE presented a Peti,ion from cer-
tain Freeholders in Scotland, complaining of the operation of an
Act passed it-. the 26th of the King, exacting Duties on Land,
praying relief. _ _ _

Lord
GAMBIER delivered a Petition from York, complain-
ing of divers Injuries Atpttalned by fair Traders in that City, by
the increase of Hawkers, Pedlars, &c. praying relief.
Several other Petitions were presented for and against the Ca-
tholic Claims.—They were all laid on the table.
Lord DARNLEY gave notice, that he should certainly bring
forward his Motion on the Naval Adinin'stration on Friday. al-
though he did not think there would be an attendance at Peers
on that day sufficient tar the important subject.
Several Bills were brought up from the Commons, which
were read the first time. After some routine business the House
adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
the Call of the House, which stood for this evening, occupied
the time until within a few minutes of six o'clock, when stran-
gers were admitted to the gallery.
The American Prize Bid wa, postponed to Thursday next.
CATHOLIC QUESTION.

Sir J. COXE HIPPISLEY wished to be inform-
ed, previous to his entrance upon the subject of hiS
Notice, whether it was the intention of his Right
Honourable Friend, the Member for Dublin, to insist
upon his priority to move, the second reading of his
Bill, orders having, on that day, the precedence of
Notices.

Mr. GRATTAN expressed his intention of way.
in his right of precedence in favour of the Honour.
ab'e Baronet.

Sir J. COXE HIPPISLEY expected no great
degree of favour on the present occasion from his
Hen. Friends. He was not received by them with
those friendly cheers which he had experienced at
other times. He would assure them and the House,
however, that he was actuated by as strong feelings
of sincerity and zeal in forwarding this great cause,
as any person who heard him, though he differed as
to the manner of conducting it to a conclusion. If
any crime could be charged upon him, it was the
crime of consistency. He had always insisted upon
the regulations which he had now in view; as the
" sine qua non" of his support. Much misinformation
had gone abroad upon the subject, which it was the
object of his present measure to remove. If his Mo-
tion were carried in a Select Committee, in conse-
quence appointed, of which he did not despair, the
highest advantages must ensue. With all his respect
for the enthusiastic zeal and talents of his Right
Hon. Fi iend (Mr. Grattan), he might still derive
benefit from additional illumination. He would beg
leave to recall to the recollection of the House a cir-
cumstance which had occurred on a former debate,
which illustrated the general liahility to error on this
subject. He (Sir J. C Hippisley) had referred to a
Canon of the Establ shed Church, enjoining secrecy
in confession. An Hon. Member (Nlr.Wilberforce)
did then answer, by saying this Canon was of the
' Church of Rome. It appeared, however, that he (Sir
J. C. Hippisley) was perfectly correct. A great fund
of infoi mation was acquired even by the production
of the Course of Lectures in the College of May-
nooth. Those who had the best means of correct
information might still fall into error, as appeared
by a circumstance that had occurred between
himself and the Rev. C. O'Connor, a Roman Ca-
tholic Clergyman, whose writings were known by
the signature of " Columbanus." It was not his
object to injure the interests of the Bill—of that BM
lie would say, with all his respect for his Right Ho-
nourable Friend (Mr. Grattan), it he would allow
him to call him so—of that Bill, he would say, ma-
teriem snfteratat opus. When the measure of Veto
was first proposed, not a murmur was heard from
the other side of the water, until the Catholic Bishops
were alarmed by anonymous writers. What, he
would ask, was there in those regulations which
he proposed more than was insisted on by every
other state in Europe? Even Dr. Milner had been
favourable to them, though lie had now thought
proper to change his tone. The character of Dr.
Milner in this Country was ecclesiastical and diplo-
matic ; his opinions were therefore important.—He
did not mean to tire the House—(hear, hear)—but
there were certain documents to which he was tinder
the necessity of refering. He would read a passage
from a publication of Dr. Milner, declaring that we
cannot arrest the course of their ecclesiastical ap-
pointments, and that the Catholic laity would sooner
ascend the scaffold than agree to it. His •resent
views were the only ones upon which he could con-
scientiously support the cause of the Catholics. In-
quiry was necessary, even for the sake of the Catho-
lics themselves. Charges of a very serious descrip-
tion had been put forth against them by the prelates
of the Established Church, acting, in his opinion,
under an honest sense of duty. He would refer the
House to the Charges of the Bishops of Durham,
Gloucester, Lincoln, &c. and the speeches of that
distinguished Prelate, Bishop Horsley. Other Pre-
lates had charged upon them impiety, blasphemy,
and enmity to all laws, human and divine, whi st
they admitted the Decrees of certain Councils.--
Lord Liverpool, it was true, had admitted in his
speech in another House, that the basis of the ques-
tion was greatly narrowed, many objections beiore
insisted upon in respect to the tenets of the Catholics
being- now abandoned. It had ever been the po-
licy of the Legislature to render access to the See or
Court of Rome as difficult as possible. With such
restrictions he would most cheerfully support their
Emancipation. He had no objection to seeing a
Catholic Lord Mayor of London, but did not wish
to see him attended by Cstholic processions, to see
the Mace of Catholicism carried before him to a
Catholic Chapel. It was said that the oaths pre-
scribed by the Legislature, and taken by the Ca-
tholics, were a sufficient security for their loyalty.—

Pa CE SIXPENCI4-HALri.ET4NY.


But what was the proportion that had actually taken
those oaths ? He would not deny an oath to be
the last acrd supreme rest—but siill I,e could not forget
that all the States of Europe had thought it proper
to adopt other collateral regulations. Even the
Right Honourable Member tor Livernool mast be
of this opinion, re else he would not have brought
forward his Amendments. He would refer to
Petition flout the Catholics in I SOS, in which
they say that no other test of loyalty than their oaths
should be required from them. To this he was ready
to agree that no other test was to be required from
them. But he looked to the Legislature for other col.
lateral regulations and securiies. He would read tt
the House a passage from a put)lication of Bishop
Douglas, in which that Catholic Prelate recommend:
the cession to Government of the sectiriees required.
He would appeal to the anthotity of Lord Grenvilkl
who recommends in a passage of one of his speeches
which he (Sir J. C. H.) had chosen as the motto of
one of his own publications, « that wl,enever
great question should come to be decided upon,
should not be treated in a hasty or inconsiderate man-
aer, but with reference to what should accompany it,
what course of policy should be pursued, and wh.;
safeguards should be required." But we had hitherto
proceeded without the necessary documents of in,
formation. We had the example of Bonaparte be•
fore us, who extorted Concordat= upon Concorde,
turn from the Pope; one article of which was, that'
the nominee of the Emperor were not instituted b)
the Pope within six months, it should be performed
by the Metropolitan. With respect to the number of
Catholics who had taken the oaths, he had written to
the Clerks of the Peace of thirty-one counties, ant:
found the proportion not considerable, even where
the Catholic populatian was most numerous. The
Hon. Baronet then adverte I to the disposition which
a great portion of the Irish Catholics had evinced
make proselytes, to counteract which he would re-
commend that their Clergy should be educated -
home. Even the Order of the Jesuits was likely
be revived, and ';umbers inclined to embrace it, un-
able to get confirmed at Rome, went to Naples, where
they attained their object. He felt extremely sorry
to say, that the Priesthood of Leland had shewn
themselves so very regardless of the interests of the
Church of England ; for he understood that a sue
of money had been subscribed in that country,
amounting to no less than £30,000, to be iippropriated
to the purchase of lands in the vicinity of Dublin, fr
the uses of a Jesuitical Establishment,—( Hear, hear.,
Really he must positively protest against such an ap.
plication of money, and if his determination shouli
be deemed an arrestation of the progress of the CLI,
lege of Maynooth, he should still think that arresta,
tion a wholesome one. He felt very uneasy in occr
pying so much of the-time of the House, cepeciall)
as the chief part of what he now said had been there
already and repeatedly urged ; but all he did arose
from a conviction that he was performing a conscien,
tious duty, and so long as that conviction should re.
main, he would not (in the event of losing his present
motion) cease to press the subject upon the House
every Session he might have the honour to hold
seat there. It might be said, that his motion was an
obstacle in the %sety of the progress of the CathoP
Bill ; but he could assure his Right Hon. Frieni
(Mr. Grattan) he did not intend it as such. It we
true he wished that Bill to be del eyed for same time,
but had no desire of frustrating the original object -
it ; on the contrary; he thought a temporary dela:
the most likely mode of securing the success of the
Bill. In deference to the wishes and the opinions
men of every religious persuasion, he thought a dela.
ought to take place, and that such a Committee
he described might be appointed, to whom the via-
luminous evidence which lay partly upon and part'',
under the table, might be releneJ.—(d laugh.)—
[The Hon. Baronet continued to speak for a con:
derable time longer; but we regret to say, that hi
voice became inaudible in the Gallery.]—He con.
eluded by moving—

" That a Committee be applinted to inquire into the State
the Roman Catholic Religion in Grea: Britain and Ireland, and
in the Colonies attached to them, to examine their Religious
stitutions, and their Correspondence s‘ ith the Pepe, or other Fis-
reign Potentate."
Mr. RYDER seconded the motion.
Mr. GRATTAN rose and said, the motion of hi,
Hon. Friend was founded upon a supposition that the
House was ignorant of the information he wished
attain, but the fact was, that in the 3ears 1809.34-
6-8 and 10, it had undergone discussion there, and
in 181'2 and 1813 it had been no less than three times
agitated and discussed. It was a most remark

circumstance that the Hon. Baronet should so soon
have neglected the repeated victories which he gainr
I over the Catholics, or that the country had now be-
! come ignorant of them. He would remind him, ho,-
ever, that on the 12th of April, ISI2, that House re
solved, that it was highly advisable to remove the
Penal Laws, which subjected the Catholics to th 4
present disabilities. How the Hon. Baronet con,
now move to inquire whether there were any grounl
for coming to that Resolution, was really more th
he could account for—(l-lear, he:x.) In fact, show
the House entertain the motion of the Hon. Baronet,
its practical effect would be to shew the country that
the former House of Cmtmons had Maize inform:
tion to proceed upon, and that the progress of th
Catholic Relief Bill must not therefore be accelerated.
But if that numerous body had before been delude('
would that House new again mislead and disappoint
them ? Would such a line of conduct satisfy any
beral minded man?—(Near, heir.) It was s rid. the
progress of the Slave Trade Lill had been delayed
for a number of yerrs, certailly that was the fact—
but was it not to the disgrace or the British name ani
character that such a stigma should have remair.ei
on the national reputation for a pet iod of 19 years
Should the present motion be agreed to, tilt Hous.
would actually stultify its own Acts, which would
he much worse than rijectio.g the Catholic claims..