Star.
London, England, 1831-09-22 00:00:00

ought to follow. He would not go to the Fauxbourg St.
Germain' for his doctrines—to those who bad destroyed
the Nobility—the hotels—the chateaus.—(Hear. hear.)
What had been the fate of the Polite who had deserted
his order? After 40 years of struggle the French people
had not realized to themselves the prospects they bad pro-
mised—the civil liberty they had anticipated would result
from such proceedings and revolutionary violence.—(Hear,
hear.) Yet though such was the fact, there were per
sons In this country who were nevertheless too fond of
recommending the imitation of France.—(Hear.) The
House of Commons proposed by Cromwell was less revolu-
tionary than the present NU.— (Hear, bear.) His own
judgment was never more convinced than it was on the pre.
sent Bill. In this his last Parliament—for in a reformed
Parliament he would never sit—in this last House of Com-
mas be discharged his conscience, when he ascribed to the
present Bill the subversion of the monarehy—the Church,
and all the best institutions of the country.—( Hear, bear.)
Lord A LTHORP said, before he went into the general
question, he would merely advert to what the learned gen.
deman had said in allusion to the revolution in France, the
mention of which, he said, was first introduced by the mem-
ber be Caine ; but which was really first introduced by the
leaned member for Rye. in his very eloquent speech. An
honourable and learned friend of his (Sir J. Scarlett) had
said that the way to obtain popularity was to abuse all the
insthutlons of the country, even the trial by jury; and he
asked were the reformers sure that after a reform they
could preserve these blessings!—he would ask his Hon.
Friend in return, was be sure that without reform these
blessings would he preserved?—(Hear, hear.) He was
confident that with the present Intelligence and opinions of
the people, Reform was necessary for the preservation of
ear hest institutions.—(Hear, bear.) ft was the spirit of
the Constitution that the property and intelligence of the
people should he represented, and that was the principle of
the present Bill. It was said every interest was repre-
sented in that House; but was it by election of those in-
terested? Was it not by finding its way through the chan-
nel of the rotten borough? A Gallant Friend (Sir John
Malcolm) proposed to continue rotten boroughs for the pur.
pose of representing India. lie thought that Gatton and Old
Sarum were sufficient to return representatives for Man-
chester and Birmingham, and that representatives for India
might be returned from Leuhnhall.street.—(Hear.) It
was said that the people expected so much from the Bill.
that after it should pass they must be disappointed ; and the
remedy proposed for this was, to disappoint them at once
by rejecting the Bill —(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member
for Thetford was at a loss to know how the Government
could be carried on after the Bill should pass. Undoubt.
edly it would be still more necessary than at present that
the Government should be popular ; and tieing popular, be
saw no such danger of their not finding seats in that House
as should cause the rejection of the Bill.—(Hear.) The
Government would be more easily carried nn with a con-
tented people than it was at present, when the people were so
justly dissatisfied with the state of the representation. It
was assumed by the opposers of the Bill that it would este-
blish a democracy, and take away the influence of the
aristocracy. He believed that the influence of property
would not be diminished, but instead of power being given
to a property in boroughs, it would be equally diffused in
proportion to real property. (Hear, hear.) It was said that
there was no instance of a monarchy existing with a purely
popular assembly ; but he believed the experiment never had
been tried. (Loud cheering from the Opposition.) A po-
pular assembly had existed in this country, much more cor-
rectly representing the people than it lately did, and the
House of Lords and the Crown possessed their proper share
of influence ; and he was confident the same would be the
case after the present bill should become law. ( Hear.)—
An hon. gentleman said, the consequence of rendering the
constitution more democratic would be, that we would rush
into war rashly, and come out of it disgracefully. Certainly,
the republics of former days were ready to rush into war, but
not to come out of it disgracefully ; and in the present day
a readiness to rush into war was not the character of the
Greatest republic in the world ; and he hoped the increased
intelligence of the people would render wars of rare occur.
rence. It was said the bill would promote bribery ; he
thought the effect would be the contrary. The time of taking
the poll would be shortened and the constituency increased,
both circumstances that would prevent bribery. (Hear.)

The plan of Reform was condemned as much too extensive ;
but to propose a lesser Reform would be to make a change
without any chance of its being permanent. He hoped the
effect of the present measure would be to give confidence to
the people in their representatives, and if it had that effect,
be did not think they would call for a change. The learned
gent. bad said much of the French Revolution ; but the state
of France before the Revolution was as different front the
state of this country as any thing could be. The Peers of
France had long oppressed the people, and resisted their
just claims, and only conceded to the people when
they were forced ; when concession only excited in-
dignation and contempt. (Hear, hear, hear.) It was
mid as the population was increased the representatives
should not be diminished. The increase of population was
a cogent reason for increasing the number of electors ; but
die question respecting the number of the representatives
was, were they sufficient to do the business of the country.
He thought no one could doubt that they were. (Hear,
bear.) The Honourable Gentleman argued that boroughs
would still be under influence; he believed there would be
very little influence, that the borough elections would in
general be popular. (Hear.) The Learned Gentleman
complained of pamphlets, but he must know that Govern.
meat had no controls! over such publications. (Hear.) The
daily papers were in general eager in the cause of Re.
form ; but every one might see that Government bad no
influence over them. He believed in that House sequoias
of equal importance was ever discussed with less puma
violence. (Hear.) In some few cases hard words had been
used ; if used against Government he freely forgave Alms
and he hoped the same forgiveness would be extended ma
their aide. (Hear, bear.) It was a subject of such immune
importance that it was impossible not to feel on it snugly.
It had long been the conviction of hie mind that the state of
the representation must be improved, and he confidently
hoped the present bill would effect that improvement. (Hear.)
He felt that the landed interest was in no danger of being
rendered powerless in that House. The Bill was localising
representation, and the Members for towns would be the
country gentlemen in their neighbourhoods, and would in-
crease the power of the landed interest, while giving repre-
sentatives to the great manufacturing towns would tend to
unite all the interests in the country. Strongly feeling all
the advantages which the Bill was calculated to produce, he
congratulated the House on seeing their labours draw to a
conclusion.—( Hear, hear.)
Mr. BARING said a few words in explanation, which
were not distinctly heard in the gallery.
Sir R. PEEL said, upon his-conscience, he believed that
never was there so great a change in the state of the repre-
sentation proposed,with so little of necessity for that change.
(Hear.) He contended that the right of voting was conferred
upon those places where them was the most danger; such
were the places with voters whose rental was three shillings
and ten-pence per week. It seemed to be forgotten too
that the present measure was accompanied by two other bills,
which were to carry a subversion of the constitution into
Scotland and Ireland. He contended that a positive heamee
to the democratic influence of the house, and s anew
ponding diminution of a cheek to that influenceormedheini
by the measure before the boast. (Hear.) An
member (Mr. blacauley) had said, that the.
ought to admit of perfect liberty in the amemedides of
property, and security in the possession of ft. (He Sir IL
Peel) wished to know if perfect liberty and security were
not poeseseed ? He admitted there had been so much of
public opininion expressed in support of the bill as to In.
dace him to treat that opinion with the greatest reggeet ; but
the measure was so much one of democracy, that lie Mdi
net go with that opinion.
Lad JOHN RUSSELL replied in a highly eloquent
epee&
Pdr. HUNT rose at four o'clock, and was long before he
amid obtain a hearing. He said the people were anxious
he PAlkina, but not as anxious as at the beginning for the
crisslllll, u migke be seen by the anal! number at the
Hall, which did not exceed ate thousand.
Kr. Alderman WOOD could with great difEculty obtain
ablating. lie said he would not sit down till he contra-
dieted the assertion that the Common Hall was not mime.
musty attended. There were 4,000 present.
The House divided—

Ayes
Noes 236
—,,...

Majority for dm Bill
The announcement was received with loatmintinned
cheering.
The Howe adjourned at Half-past Fres.

The late fire at Mr. Donlan's, near Westminster
Bridge, appears to have been the work of an in-
cendiary.