Star.
London, England, 1831-06-22 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

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HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE 21.
At half.past four o'clock the house was filled to excess
with Peers. it was difficult to determine whether thp
rtster body was on the ministerial or opposition benches.
fhe 1 of Burster, Lord Dover, Lord Sefton, and the
other Peers I ttely created, ranged themselves, as might be
earetied, on the eide of the alin:stry. The Duke of Nor-
folk end Lod Mule-are, in srlendid military uniforms,
lock :lair places as the ?never end seconder of the address.
S veral ladies in elegant costume sat below the bar to witness
their Lordships proceedings. Tne house assumed, upon
the whole, a most impressive appsarance.
The LORD ell ANCELLOR took his seat at half.past
are o'clock. and commenced the business of the evening by
repeetins that order might be kept while he read his Ma-
jesty's erceh.
Lord Et.-1 EN BOROUGH suggested that it was always
guise to tr..:ve the first reading of a bill.
Earl GREY then moved the first trading of the Select
Vestry Bill. which Navin; be n read,
The 1,0111) CIIANCELLOR read the Speech, which'
we cave in the whole impression of the STAR yesterday.
the Date of NORFOLK then rose to move the address.
Ifts Grace was dressed in the Windsor uniform. lie had
b. en from the earliest period of his life attached to the in-
stitutions of his country, and he felt confident that a Reform
in the Constitution of Parliament.wa., essentially necessary,
and would he attended with the best of consequences. It i
was not his intention to argue this subject, but he considered
that there was more danger in attending to the pernicious
adherence to hereditary rights than by going hand and haft
io introducing a salutary change. (Hear, hear). In his
opinion, there was less danger in permitting the passing of
the present Reform Bill than in resisting it, In the spirit of
the present times. The great question of reform had been
obtained by the irresistible sense of the people. It was a
great libel on the people to say, that they had been influ-
enced by revolutionary feeling. It was sath'aetory to knew
that the pacific editions of the country had been preserved.
The Noble Duke could not avoid expressing his regret that
the reduction of taxes had not produced that permanent ad-
vaetage to the dist-eased classes snich had been expected.
There was another circumstance, namely, the distress and
disturbance in pats of land, which also called for deep
regret. His hope, however, was, that the measures of a
Noble 'Marquis in Ireland would alleviate, and finally, re-
lieve, the sufferings of the population in that part of the
United-Kingdom. The Noble Duke concluded by moving
the Address, which was as usual an echo of the speech.
The Address having been handed to the LORD CHAN-
CELLOR, his Lsrdship rose to read it, but was encoun.
tered by the cry of " No, no," from Lord Ellenborough and
the Duke of Bnekingliam.
The Earl of MULE; RAVE rose at the same time to se-
cond the Address, but sat down amidst the cry of " Order,
order—real, reed—no, no," fee.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH made a technical objection
to the form of the Address moved by the Noble Duke. It
varied in grammatical construction from all former Ad-
dresses, being in the first person instead of the third. The
informality was of importance, because a Committee which'
might be appointed to carry it into effect could not depart
from the language, if it remained in the first person.
Earl GREY considered the objection quite unnecessary.
It might not be strictly technical according to the forms, but
spun a discuss* of a speech from the throne it was deairs-
hie to avoid do y.
The Earl of ELDON cited a case in which an Address
had been amended by the Lord Chancellor before it was read
to the House.
Several Peers exclaimed, " Read ! Go on."
The LORD CII INCELLOR said; it was necessary he
should obtain instruction upon the course he had to pursue
One Noble Lord told him to read the address in the first
person ; another requested him to read it in the third. He
thought he ought to read it in the form it came into his
hands, and then put the question that this address be pre-
sented.
Lord ROLLE said. he did not know how an amendment
could be proposed to an address which they had not heard
read.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, the Noble Duke had
snored that an Address be presented to his Majesty in irre.
gular words. The usual mode had • been not to address his
Majesty in the first person. The form in which it was
moved precluded it from being referred to the Committee
to which it must be submitted.
Earl GREY said, if there was any error, be would take
the blame, having recommended the form to the Noble
Duke. It did not appear to him that the least inconvenient,
could arise from the adoption of the Address in its them
shape. His hope was that the House would, therefore,
suffer the Address to be read in such a way that every
/dauber of the House might form a judgment upon it.
The objection of the Noble Lord could answer no par.
pose but delay.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH and Lord MANSFIELD
roost the same time. Lord ELLENBOROUGH, however ad-
dressed the House. It was the duty of every Member to
guard their forms; and it was not the period to allow Par.
liamentary forms to be infringed. He thought great public
inconvenience would arise from the inadvertence of which he
complained. How was it possible to refer to a Committee
that which the House had not agreed to ? If they adopted
the Address in the terms it was couched in, a Committee
could not carry it into effect. His hope was, that at least it
would not be drawn into a precedent.
The Duke of BUCKING!' A NI complained that the
noble and learned lord did not read the whole of the address,
but had merely said, " Is it your lordship's pleasure to
agree with this address ?"
The Marquis of LA NSDOW E said the noble and learned
lord on the woolsack should In strictness read every motion
submitted to the house.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had been res.
tricted in the execution of his duty by a desire to do that
duty in &manner satisfactory to all their lordships. Dif-
ferent opinions had been expressed. When he endeavoured
to read the address, one noble lord wished hint to read it ;
and another cried no. He was in the situalon of a man
with too many masters.
A PEER, whose name we could not collect, sail it waa
competent for the noble lord who moved the address to ca.
rect the informality.
Lord HOLLAND said it was usual to allow a motion to
be put in an amended state.
Lord FARNHAM thought the plainest course was to
allow the noble duke to amend it.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose amidst the cry
of order.
Lord HOLLAND continued. Common courtesy of the
house allowed the noble lord on the woolsack to amend an
informal motion.
The Duke of NORFOLK then proposed to amend his
motion.
The Earl of ELDON said a committee appointed to
prepare an address could not alter the wends of that address.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said it wasremark.
able that the Government Which last Session stood so much
upon otder, should have prompted the noble duke to be dis-
orderly in proposing an improper address.
Lord HOLLAND said there was nothing so disorderly
as a debate upon a point of order. The noble Marquis had
contrived to bring disorder to the highest summit, in refer.
ring to former irregularity In the debates of another Paella.
ment. If that could be allowed, it would shake the stability.
of all their proceedings.
The Duke of NORFOLK having removed the technical
ebi theLORD CHANCELLOR read the address from the
Woolsack.
The Earl of MULGRAVE then rose to second it. The
noble earl observed, that ether he rose to addreas the house
some few moments previously, he had no intenuon to inter-
rupt the order of their lordships' proceedings. He was con-
vinced that the act of inadvertence on the pert of his noble
friend had been imputed to the right motive. He could not
avoid regrettirg that the inadvertence had occurred, because
when the house was assembled upon great and important
matters, it was essential that all delay should be avoided.
In rising to second the address, he could assure disk lord.
ships that lie bad devoted his most anxious attention .to the
question of parliamentary reform, and he wee persuaded
there was no subject which required more consideration. It
was a pat advantage to the cause to base the support of
the noble duke who sat beside him. He then eddieseed him.
aelf to those topics which had been eubutitted to the house.
I t was satisfactory to look at the conduct of the Government
respect to allies, and Doane could deny
. of future confidence In their measure*
national,faith and bonour. Ide had . no
am support of the rlgho of other nations
the foreneeth of. those States wblch depended
I i dation.ig their just itghts. ,Hs thostoht it for.
A eontereaoss of the coogrese_of London had not,.
spied itY (Wig who onleidered theanselves coop
deelde, in opposition to. the good intenUons of
minise4s. The. noble earl, in respect to the

former policy of England, wont on to say that when minor
difficulties were overcome, as he trusted they would be in
regard to Belgium, the tranquillity of that country would
much depend upon the Individual who should be appointed to
its government. 7 d4kinguished iodiyidual to whom
public attention had stotecied as destined to such a
government, he (Earl grate) was satisfied would attend
in every respect to the interests of that e. To tefer-
pFl
ence to other parts of Europe, he true that' the vs-1
citrus Sovereigns would peaceably and gradua ly pave II way {
to future tranquillity and bornfeirt. On the' question of PO-
land, it was impossible not to sympathies with its people.—
Adverting to that part of the Speech from the Throne which
touched on the revenue of the country, it was gratifying to
know that a remission of 4,000.0001. of taxation, which took
place last year, was not accompanied by more than a dimi.
nution of half a million in the actual amount of the revenue.
Regarding the internal policy of the country,he regretted that
there did not appear to hint to have been sufficient attention
to some of those counties where the necessary article of coal
was difficult to be obtained. By a cheap supply of that
article, he was of opinion much of the domestic comforts of
the poor would he secured to them. There was another
point connected with this subject to which he would take
the liberty of directing their lordships attention, which was
the change adopted in the beer laws. He regretted that that
change had net produced all the benefits which had been
anticipated by the promoters of the measure. The moral
and domestic habits of the people generally, since the pas-
sing of that measure, bore no comparison to what they were
previously to the passing of the Beer Bill. The noble earl
then alluded to the present distressed state of Ireland, which
Ile said it was knpo4sible to view without horror. It was con.
solatory,however,to know that where disturbance,: had broken
out peace had in some measure been restored. There was ano.
ther point in the Speech which called for notice ; he alluded
to the geographical progress of that disorder which at present
was ro be found in conntries with which England had con-
vection. Whilst he deprecated alarm, he should regret if
an undue confider.ce were established. He came now to the
examination of the great qm.stion of Parliamentary reform—
in paving the way for which he must observe that his Majesty,
in dissolving the last Parliament, had acted with that
manliness which best became his character; that dissolu.
Lion he (Earl Nlulgrave) considered as an expedient mea-
sure, for in his opinion there never was a question more ne.
actuary to be brought forward than the one of Reform in
Piirliamett. Any arguments which noble lords on the other
aide of the House might bring forward, founded on the in.
riolability of the elective franchise, appeared to him to be
perfectly fallacious. The elective franchise was conferred
on the people, who, with the Monarch at their head, were
best qualified to judge when was the fittest time for a
change to take place. It ought to be borne in mind that
large manufacturing districts had grown into existence
since the period when the present law of election was framed.
He should wish to know at what time noble lords opposite
intended to concede any alteration in those laws ; for his own
part he anticipated no harm to the settled constitution of
of the country by the measure which had been brought for.
ward in the last parliament. As the law was at present
constituted the aristocracy had their battles fought in the
other House by their nominees. Nothing in his opinion
was more beneficial to the country than a system of non.
intervention between the two branches of the Legislature ;
he stated what he humbly conceived to be true; he should
take another opportunity, when the measure came regularly
before the House, of stating his opinions upon it io detail.
He regretted the spirit of opposition upon a trifling point
which had been manifested since he came into that House;
one Noble Baron (Rllenborough) had risen to oppose the
address of the noble Duke, and had threatened the House
with an amendment--(No, no, from the Ministerial
benches.)
Lord ROLLS rose to order.

Earl ItIUI.ORAVE resumed, he spoke his sentiments
freely ; it was many years since he became a reformer, and
he believed that time was an unsparing creditor. Noble
lords on the opposite side of the house, who contended for
a gradual amelioration, were little aware of the amount of
compound interest which would be required to be paid in
the cud, if the principle of delay were acted upon ; he
trusted, however, that the Barons of England would see the
propriety and necessity of agreeing wilh the requests of a
people, supported by the countenance of a wise and liberal
prince. (Hear.) With a firm conviction in his mind, that
the rights of the people were consistent with the per-
manency and dignity of the Crown be should second the
address to his Majesty which had been proposed by the no-
ble Duke.

The Earl of WINCHILSEA felt it incumbent on him
to state his reasons why he deemed it necessary to withdraw
his confidence from the present ministers of the crown. He
was not actuated by a vain idea that any support of his
would be of much weight to the noble earl at the head of
the government; all he claimed was honesty and coasts•
tency of conduct, which had induced him to withdraw his
support from the present administration; it was not howe-
ver the great question of parliamentary reform which caused
that separation. tln the very morning that the measure of
reform was brought forward, he had, in a letter, stated his
objections to it as far as they went, to a noble lord opposite.
To these objections he still adhered. He was satisfied in his
own mind that the measure of Reform, as it at present
stood, would, if carried, be subversive of the equilibrium of
that State which had been the envy of all other nations.—
( Hear from the Opposition.) He could not look upon the
daring attacks which had been made on the privileges of that
house without feeling dismay--attacks which bad beta COLLO.
tenanted even by that part of the press which professed to
be ministerial ; they were also countenanced by the noble
Earl opposite, and he (Lord W'inchilses) owed it to his
public character not longer to remain a supporter of a mi-
nistry which countenanced such proceedings. The Reform
bill, he was of opinion, had been introduced under the mask
of correcting abuses. No man was mote ready than he
should be to render assistance to a Ministry far such a pur-
pose—such a principle he should strenuously support;—
that support he, however, was constrained to withhold when
be considered the attacks to which he had alluded, and that
the ministers of the day forgot and forgave one of the most
unprincipled agitators that ever disturbed the peace of any
country—to set law at defiance, and placing a part of the
empire in open rebellion.--(Hear.) He agreed with that
part of the speech which alluded to a system of non-inter-
-1 fere= with foreign powers ; the more this country kept
aloof from the internal arrangements of others, so much
the more would its prosperity be preserved secure. It
was with deep sympathy he viewed the present distressed
state of Ireland, and he hoped that no party feeling would
interfere between the evils of that country, and a remedy
for them. _

Earl GREY felt himself called upon to say a few wards
in reference to what had fallen from the Noble Earl oppo.
site. That Noble Earl had stated he found it necessary to
withdraw his confidence from the ministers of the crown
because, by the measure of reform they had introduced, tbej
contemplated to overturn the.state. He (Earl Grey) could
have wished that the Noble Earl had been more explicit :
the Noble Earl does not say that the people do not want
reform, but that certain persons, under the mask of reform,
meant to overthrow the State : a noble duke opposite echoes
that sentiment. How could that noble duke support such a
charge P
Lord LONDONDERRY' said a few words across the
table, to order.
arl GREY resumed. Ile had heard the Noble Earl
(Winehilsei), in his place in thur home, support reform in
Parliament, and he thought there was something very in-
consistent in his present remarks. His Majesty's Ministers
had proposed& measure of reform on a conservative principle
to an extent which would satisfy the people. Noble Lord:
would not find in that house a grater opponent to -those
who would encroach upon the dignity and ptertive ache
Crown, than he should prove himself to be. The greatest
patriots that had existed declared themselves in favour of
Alarm. When be (Earl Grey) came to town after the die.
Motion of the last Parliament, be found parties who pee..
visusly were adverse to the measure bad become in (avower
it, and deemed it necessary. He recollected the feelings of
the country consequent upon the assertion of a Noble
Dale opposite (Walingtoo) that no reform was required ;
nothing bat this assertion it was, which caused the
Noble Duke to retire from the Councils of the Crown;
be (Earl Gre)) was then called upon to form a Ministry.
Knowing well the difficulty he had to contend with, he
accepted his *Majesty's gracious commands, upon the
understanding that the Reform question should have
his Majesty s countenance and support, well assured
that no Ministry could stand unless such a measure
was contemplated. All subsequent events had prayed
the necessity of a Reform in the Representation of
the country—(Hear),—and the Reform proposed by Minis-
ten was calculated to uphold the Constitution, to support
the just prerogatives of the Crown, and maintain their own
fights and prieUsges.—(Hear.)—lt would alai secure the
lust rights of the people.—(Hear.) Hvi should like to bear
tbs Noble Lords opposite mite their plan of Reform, for
they must bare some one or another, as it was admitted now
by every individual that some cheap was stecfassay....—
(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lss had ehargedlibn(lard,llm)

and those who acted with him with being hostile to the in.,
tercets of the establishrl ;church. Now, nothing could be
more erroneous than such a suspicion. He was a sincere
admirer of that church—be was a most zealous advocate of
its doctrines, which he looked upon as the best ever lotro-
dead (hear), and he would yield to no man in wishlog to
see the union between church and state maintained inviols-
bk.--(Hear' hear). He could assure the House that he
did nor wish to eke any advantage of the church, whatever
the nettle Lord opposite might think.
Loid W INCH ILSEA.—I did not mean you.
Lord GREY.--If the noble earl did not mean him, he
willed upon him to say who be did mean. (Hear, hear.) Be
would reput, no one wished to see the Protestant Church
supported more than himself. (Hear.) He wished the Church
of England to be upheld, and deprecated religious discus.
sions on a political subject. The noble earl had alluded to
granting Ca.holic emancipation ; it was the intention of that
Act to abolish, if possible, religious contentions; and as We
thought it yes calculated to have that effect, he gave it hist
support. There was nothing in the Reform Bill that could
rtibjact the government, even by implication, to a charge of
being opposed to the Church. They were as firm supporters
of it as the noble lord himself; but they wished to see its
safety rest °ruche purity of its doctrines, and the conduct of
its mcmbas. They wished to see the members of that
Church striving to conciliate the people. (Hear.) They
were then charged, that under the pretence of introducing a
Reform 8.11, they anticipated designs dangerous to the Con-
stitution, and that they wished to destroy the influence that
House did and ought to possess. Nothing could be more
opposite from their intentions—but they thought that a true
balance between the different branches of the Legislature
ought to be effected. He ( Lord Grey) from habits and in-
terest, was naturally desirous of upholding all their rights.
He did not wish to propose any thing obnoxious, but cull
it be said, by taking away from some noblemen the right of
nominating members for corrupt boroughs (a right they
never ought to have possessed), could it be said that that was
infringing the privileges of that house? (Hear.) There
were eight or ten noble lords exercising their influence in
sending membert, to parliament, to the exclusion of the rest.
The IA therefore, sas not likely to lestroy the influence of
the house, but to talc!' away tie present rights of a part of
its members. (Hear.) It would effectually prevent any
noble Led in future going to the minister oil the day, and
saying, " There are seven of us—remember seven of us.".-
1 hat influence would be completely destroyed—(hear;) but
another influence would be created. Noble lords, by their
good offices towards the people, would enable them to elect
a House of Commons such as it ought to be, and thus en-
large the influence they now enjoyed. (Hear.) It was for
these reasons be supported the plan of reform. The noble
lord (Winchilsea) had also complained much, of the attacks
that had been made on the established church by the public
press; he was not prepared to defend those attacks: but
then, said the noble lord, government are remiss in not pro.
scenting the journals in question. Now, the noble lord
ought to be aware, before instituting a prosecution, that
there were other considerations than the bare assertion of any
article being libellous. ( Hear.) It was to be remembered,
that if a prosecuth.n ensued. it did not put down the
publication or change its character. (Hear.) If the noble
lord was to try to put them down by force, he might depend
upon it l'e would nut succeed. (Hear, hear.) It had been
tried by former Governments, and failed. He (Lord
Grey,) however, weld assure the noble lord, when any case
presented itself, which was recommended by the law officers
of the Crown to be prosecuted, he would not refuse his sane•
den, but he was no friend to needless prosecutions; he was
convinced, in slight cases, they did much harm. (Hear.)
The House would, however, do him the credit to say, that
where the publications wen calculated to destroy the peace
of the country, he bad not sheen himself backward in or.
dering legal proceedings to be taken. (Hear.) The prose-
cutions in Ireland had produced good effects, and the only
reason of their being abandoned was on account of the Act
under which they were brought having expired on the disso-
lution of the late parliament. (Hear, bear, hear.) It was,
therefore, the opinion of the Law Officers in England, as
well as in Ireland, that the Court had no jurisdiction topless
sentence. It was that fact, and that alone, or the law would
have taken its regular course. (Hear.) There were many
precedents to be.found for adopting such a course, which
he would again assure the House was the only reason for
abandoning the prosecutions. They would not otherwise
have been dropped. (11ear.) The noble lord opposite ex.
presses his assent of the Reform Bill; he had done so seve-
ral times, but on all occasions he takes an opportunity of
attaching the present government on its general line of po.
licy. He was convinced they did not deserve such attacks.
A proper time, however, would come when their acts could
be fully discussed. He would not, therefore, then detain
their lordships, but sit down with observing that the great
measure of Reform he was convinced, if curled, would add
to the peace and prosperity of the country; but should it
be lost, It would, in his opinion, lead to consequences that
he dare not allude to. (Loud cries of hear, hear, from all
parts of the House.)
Etel WINCH ILSEA rose to explain. Be certainly had
great distrust in his Majesty's Government. (Hear). And
what prudent man, who was anxious for the peace of his
country, but what must, when some of its Members, at pub-
lic dinners, could give such toasts as " The Sovereignty of
the People," and " The Liberal Clergy of England." When
such toasts were drank by Membered the Government, it
was enough to raise suspicion as to their motives. (Hem).
It was enough, he would contend, to raise an alarm as to
their honesty, and the danger the country was exposed to.—
(Hear). So convinced was he of the great advantage from,
the connection between Church and State, that be would
expend the last shilling he had to preserve it. (Hear).
Earl GREY said he rose in explanation. He consideted•
himself personally attacked by the Noble Earl opposite, in.
asmuch as he bad attacked his son for a toast, not that be had
given, but one which was proposed by another person at an
election dinner at which he was present. The toast, how-
ever, WAS not " The Sovereignty of the People"—it was
" The People, from whom all Sovereign power proceeded."
And where was the Noble Lord who would get up and con-
tend, that it was not settled at the Revolution that all power
was derived from the people ? (Hear). And that the au.
thority delegated to Goverunaent ought to be exercised far
their benefit. With respect to the other, " The Liberal
Clergy of England," that was also given at an election din-
ner at Northampton, to Lord Alihorp, and the Noble Lord ,
opposite ought to bear in mind that many toasts were even
by the party with whom he associated, not much in accord.
Mee with Christian charity or good feeling. (Hear). He I
felt bound to say this much in explanation.
The Duke of CU ‘I BERLAND said the Noble Lord
(Grey) hid charged him with being adverse to the liberties
of the people. (Hear.) Now he would affirm that there
was no Member on the other side of the House that would
fight more strenuously for liberty. (Hear.) And he would
ask what act he had committed in that place to warrant a
charge of hostility to the liberties dills people. (Hear.)—
Their Lordships would excuse him if he felt warm (his
Royal Highness spoke in a moat 'animated style), but all
those who associated with him knew that his only desire in
opposing the plan of Reform was to preserve the balance of
power that ought to exist between King, Lords, and Com-
mons. When, however, that plan came before the Houpe,
it should have his most areful coosideration,—(ffess.)--and
he could assure their Lordships that his vote should be gives
from eons letion.--(Hear, hear.)
Earl GREY said a few words in explanation.
Earl FALMOUTH rose amidst loud cries dada. The,
confusion that prevailed rendered it impossible to bear el.
reedy what the Noble Lord stated. We understood hint to
complain of certain statements that had appeared in the
newspapers.
Earl GREY explained. He knew nattiest of what ap-
peered in the newspapers. What the Noble Lord elluded to
was not derived by him (Lord Grey) from that source, but
from the diary of Mr. Dalton.

Lord WMARNCLIFFE said the present Parliament
were met to discuss matters of more importance than were
ever debated by the Legislature. If the address was now
agreed to, It would only be giving Ministers a pretext foe
further scope. He did only approve of discussion of a re.
solution for an address, but be had a duty to perfeem—he
knew his duty, and bad come to perform it. It was neces-
sary to place instances of the misconduct of ministers before
the House ; although, u the case now stood, be was aware
that he could not allude to the Reform bill only as a Latta
of history. (Hear.) But he would say, that if the weeds el
the King's Speech were to be anal up to, that bill add
neve again be brought fermi. (//m.) His Ma.
tsgravideclared that be would net se any till::
en .the liberties of his sublease and be* Lord
Wharuliffe) contended that the bill daMed the
once which ought to be pumadiiswrt 111"111—
fee that ream he gave it his Maid He
mid Not go as far as to snows he whiled to.
dumpy the liberdes of the peepb, Int the hillansak did
so; and la the Address they voted,lB)
0444 m leu his
Majesty se. He, Maw, on the IMMO at *ha
speedithat bad been'tlellvered and the Ariaisters
bad amgally.abstainstLfrom saying anadnialbstitillis.fted
11V.d.als°1441 the het Parlinennt *fie, asih

on earth should hrve prevented him from moving an amend.
mint—(bear).—but as they bad the good sense to omit that
topic, he should vote for gut Indorse. He must, however,
take that op It 'that be objected to the
measures of m pod OA *bole tenour of their eon.
duct. On tbe even ng V the day on which the last parlia-
ment was dissolved, Intended to move an address to his
Majesty, as he had herlrd a day or two before that adissolu.
ties wits to take rhea'; but when he was about to make
his motion, in came the noble and learned lord on the wool.
sack, and assigned as a reason for the step that ministers
had advised the Crown to adopt, that the Commons had re-
fused the supplies. A reason which he would contend was
not founded in fact. (Hear, hear, and order.) It was the
very reverse of fact—the Commons did not refuse the sup-
plies. The ordnance estimates were certainly fixed for that
night, but they were not called on, and the house agreed to
an adjournment, but the noble od learned lord was well
aware whit effect such an assertion would have in the coun-
try. In fact, ministers owed their success at the late elec. '
Hens to lt.-- (Cries of no, no, from the the opposition sides.)
The King's name bad eo been used to influence the elec.
tions. The noble lord then went into a long statement
connected wbh the illuminations that followed the dissolution
of the late parliament, and censured the conduct of the Home
Secretary.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE vindicated the conduct
of Ministen in dissolving the last parliament. An appeal
had been made to the people, and the people had responded
to that appeal.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said it was an un-
truth in the noble and learned lord on the woolsack declaring
that the Commons refused the supplies: (hear.) It was
hearing such an assertion that caused him (Lord London-
derry) to evince so much warmth on the last day of par-
liament. He was a man that liked the plain truth :
Daughter.) He had looked ■t his majesty's speech, and
he thought the only thing Important in it was the anxiety
of government about the cholera morbus : (great laugh-
ter.) He never knew a speech so barren on all subjects
of policy.

Lord MELBOURNE defended himself from the charge
brought against him by the noble lord (Wharnclifle), whom
he declared would neva have btougbt it bad he known the
circumstances of she case.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE and Lord MELBOURNE
mutually explained.
The Marquis of CLEVELAND and Lord M %NS-
FIELD rose at the same time, amidst loud cries of "Ques-
tion, question." In the confusion,
Lord KENYON said—" My Lords, I move that Lord
Mansfield be now heard."
Lord HOLLAND opposed the motion being pressed.
Lord KENYON then spoke on a point of order, after
which

Lord MANSFIELD addressed their Lordships. Redid
not think the advice respecting the illuminations to have!
been so very sound, especially as some of the public offices
had been illuminated. He could not but concur In many
parts of the address, and as it did not pledge their lordships
to any thing, it was unnecessary for him to object to any part
of it. The present ministers had come into office on the
1 principle of reform ; but he decidedly objected to the man-
ner in which they had urged forward the reform Bill. He
had particularly to complain of the conduct of the Govern.
I mint towards Mr. O'Connell, showing that individual to be
more powerful than the Government Itself ; conduct which
II no man would believe was not the result of some promise
directed or implied. He had also to complain of what he
feared had been matter of bargain—the proposed payment of
the Catholic clergy out of the revenues of the state. He
likewise condemned the manner of the dissolution of Parlia-
ment. I was one in a hurry wholly unprecedented since the
time of Cromwell. But it seemed it was requisite to excite,
and to induce the belief that there had been insult. Was
there not a noble lord's notice of motion (Londondery's) for
an address to the throne--an address to which it was known
would have been carried ? Had the existence of that notice
been communicated to the King ? If not, had the minis.
ten done their duty to his Majesty ? And he also com-
plained of the conduct of the Lord Chancellor on that oc.
casion—conduct that ever since rankled in his mind.—
but the dissolution was attributed to the stoppage of the
supplies • he should like to know whether the dissolution
had not becn resolved on six hours previously. Be the fact
as it might, the King's name bad been made a most impro-
per use of, especially in representing the King to be a re.
former and an approver of the bill. Approval to introduce
a bill had before been given, when some of the present mi.
nisten were before in office but that approbation was
withdrawn, and the ministers dismissed; so that the sanction
to introduce the bill proved nothing. The Sovereign ought
not to be placed in the situation in which ministers had pla-
ced the present king. The ministers had directed all the
indignation of the country against the Aristocracy and
the Clergy ; was that just ? He admitted that many
defects existed in the representation, but (though no moderate
Reformer,) he was against the sweeping and wild reform
now sought, and which gave the semblance of fairness to
systematic injustice I—(hear)--and in support of it the
most violent threats were held out; one of which was, that
the power of the Crown should be exerted to create a great
number of new Peers. (Hear.) In conclusion, he could
not but remark that all the mums of the present
Government Lad some bow the approbation of the
most disaffected in the country. (Hear.)
ot3z
The Marquis of CLEVELAND observed, that though
he was favourable to the bill, his windows had suffered in
common with the Noble Earl's; therefore, what inference
could be drawn from the excesses on that mead= ?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY and Earl GREY
having explained,

The LORD CHANCELLOR said, he had always been
prepared to grapple with an opponent when be could meet
with him. So far from the resistance of the supplies having
been the cause of the dissolution, he hesitated not to declare,
that his Majesty had been previously advised to dimly*
the Parliament. Even a commission far the purpose had
beat prepared. There was no want of the excitement—to
produce it had been no pan of the wish of the Government.
The proowding: in the Commons on the night preceding the '
dissolution justilcd that proceediag. He was charged with
haring run out of the house. But why had he quitted the
house ? He was then anunoned by the Black Rod to mind
his Majesty, who bed wired at the house. However, he bad
toimplore awn to listen calmly to the Bill, when it should
cos* before than ; but be mat also beg of them to avoid
the inconvenient practke of discussing a measure before it
was brought 'forward. As to the elections, They had been
wholly left to the people by the ministers : there had been
some extrasedinavy interruptions on the part of official indi-
viduals—but had they been removed ? Had they ma been
=to ? No; as dadtons were the guinnoint to keep
ves Eames of unfair It was
dodged that lie nadate bed formai, base dismissed for
1°0,041 a YIL, k 1911.1" at the idelery hod been omitted.
n the coati urn MI is Virg, not only was that
bill thrown out by sisif, hait-ap/RI men e, but a pledge
was required that naMeg of the Me'world again be pro-
posed—a pledge, the akenednadasl -character of which
the ministers resisted, and on account of width the party
bad remained out of office for upwards of 10 long
That Secret influence could at now exert itself : it had tried,
but the door was not even found a-jar. There bad not been I
room to put in even a Sager. Complaint bad she been
muds of the adept of the Mag's name. The minister's bad
brought forward a with the king's sanction= but
what had been the egaiaa of others ? Had they not said.—
lad Printed—and Anil alma tie king's will on the abject
in the most unermareable awns? Had it• not been de-
clared, and most induddeuelp, afloat both houses of podia-
ment, that the king andd.naldfassiwe the parliament Atm
not that making a most agniper-calm of the king's name
The noble and learned lea aneindled by stating that the
forks themselves hid mob nee se the king's name both in
and out of parliament act hawse seemions.

Lord FARNHAM dolled that the present distutbances
in Ireland were not to blurldbuted to political cameo. He
contended that the late Web for political offences ought not
to have been dropped. The Coon of King's Bench was
the only tribunal where the, mishit to have been dssed of.
Th. noble lord then entered foe a lengthened &Ha of what
he conceived to be the true senses of the existing Maros in
Ireland.

Lard PLUNKETT Lan the odds Wren (Fainbass)
credit fir wharfs bilevedle be bath in all oat.
we Wand I bearevat be dbyad great
Vilseet, Thtnebb snd lemsd lard ether detailed
y if die passeentimit esti= Ma O'Cannell, and
due men wby is -bed boo IN Ni de by his 'netjaety's
geeteneeent.
_ _

Albs skw words tease the Wasp of Paula sad. Load
Repo, es Addams was pt wad sarded."
QP ea isserkst lad ORM do Derv& at /Warns.
Hay was 411101.11 Chihli,' d ovgseePool
41IVIlosse than adlierptipeiNtii,o'ClAck.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The Speaker took the Chair at twelve o'clock, for the
tiro eof enabling members to take the Oaths and their

Soon after two o'clock, the House was summoned to
attend the House of Pcers. At half.past three o'clock the
Speaker resumed the Chair. Other members were sworn.
After four o'clock the usual Sessional orders were moved.
STANDING ORDERS OF THE SESSION.
Mr.HUNT, on that resolution regarding the Peers' Inter.
ferenee in Elections, gave notice that to.morrow he should
move that it be rescinded.
lord J. RUSSELL asked what wu to be moved in its
stead ?

Mr. HUNT said he had no objection to state; the fact of
Peers' interference was known. He should move that the
following resolution be substituted, namely—
" That it is a high infringement of the liberties and pd.
vileges of the Commons of the United Kingdom, and a grow
invasion of the rights of the people, for any Lord of Parlia.
ment, or other Peer or Prelate, to interfere, either directly
or indirectly, in the election of a member to serve in the
Commons House of Parliament."
If that were carded, he should move a clause to this
effect in the Reform Hill—
.

" And be it further enacted, that from and after the 31st
day of December, 1831, that if any Lord of Parliament,
or other Peer or Prelate, shall be guilty of the crime of inter-
fering, either directly or indirectly, in the election of any
member to sit and serve in the Commons Douse of Perlia.
ment, such peer shall, for such unlawful interference, be ad.
judged, upon conviction, to pay a fine to the State of ten
thousand pounds, and be imprisoned in the Tower for the
space of one year. And if any peer be convicted a second
time of • similar crime, he shall be adjudged to pay a fine
to the State of twenty thousand pounds, and be imprisoned
in his Majesty's gaol df Newgate for the space of two years;
and if any peer shall be convicted a third time of a similar
crime, such peer shall be degraded from the peerage, his title
shall become extinct, and the culprit shall be transported be-
yond the seas for his natural life."
This was received with some laughter, but he said it was
no laughing matter ; he should propose these matters to prove
the sincerity of the house to promote reform.
On the resolution regarding strangers,
Mr. HUNT suggested that it also be rescinded. It was
violated daily by the officers of the house. He did not wish
to exclude strangers—he wished ten times the number gene-
rally assembled could be present—but he did not desire
nugatory, nominal, and farcical orders to be retained: to-
morrow he should move its abolition—no good could result
from continuing it.
Lord ALTHORP said it was moat important that the
strangers who attended should be known to be attending on
sufferance. Inconvenience from the continuance of the or.
der had not been experienced; why then rescind it 2
Mr. ATWOOD considered the order to be useful.
Mr, O'CONNELL said the remedy was easy. Let the
stranger who might be pointed out by any Member be
taken into custody. The present House was not elected
by the passions but returned by the good sense. of the peo-
ple, and he hoped real business would be done.
Original order agreed to.
On the order that the thoroughfares to the house be kept
clear,

Mr. HUM E complained that that they had not been kept
clear; there were well dressed persons about, whether they
were police or not he did not know, but he had been unable
to get to the house.
All the orders were agreed to,

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there was no subject so
was a great advantage
the noble duce who as
self to dune topics wb
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