Star.
London, England, 1822-02-19 00:00:00

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

The Order of the Day for the House-going into a
Committee of Suprly was thee read.
The C A NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved
that the Accounts of outstanding Exchequer and Irish
Treasury Bills, to the sth of February, with a view
of providing for the same, together witk the wages
of the seamen for the present year, be referred to the
said Committee.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected to calling upon
the Committee to pledge itself to a vote, in any par-
ticular department, in round numbers, without sub-
mitting the detailc. It was usual in Committees of
Supply to submit the Estimates, befure the votes were
demanded of them.

Sir G. WA It RENDER said that this vote of sea-
men's wages was a matter of course, and that the
vote, in the shape in which it was now put, would not
prevent the House from questioning the details of the
vote hereafter. The House might expect that the
Estimates in his particular department would be
brought forward as soon as possible.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
he would pledge himself that all the Estimates should
be laid in due course in future Committees of Supply.
Lord PALMERSTON gave the same pledge for
the Estimates within his department.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said he had made the ob-
servation for the sake of greater regularity.
Mr.IIUME said he did not rise to oppose the House
going into a Committee of Supply upon the Exche-
quer Bills, for form sake; but he would protest
against the passing of a vote of Sapply for any ser-
vice, upou the imperfect documents before the House.
Ile did not agree with the lion. Baronet, tllat this
vote for seamen's wages was a vote of course. He
should apprise the Hon. Baronet, that he meant to
oppose the vote, until the proper Estimates were
Made out—(llear, hrar).—The Hon. Baronet seemed
.to forget what took place upon this very vote last
year, when the Hon. Member for Appleby (Mr.
Crcevey) moved for the details. The Returns then
obtained were a copy of those to be expected on this
vote ; and when he had stated some of the charges,
he was sure the House would not readily sa!iction
'them. Speaking from the Returns of last year, he
stated that these 22,000 men, charged at the rate of
fts. Gd. per month,made a sum of £548,000; besides
8,000 marines, there was also £25 a day charged for
General Officers at the head of marines—(lleer).
Ile would oppose these General Officers, with a very
few exceptions. There was an Hon. Baronet now in
the House, whose allowance he would not oppose. But
he would oppose paying men who did no duty ; for if
he assented to the vote now in a lump, he would be
precluded from opposing it in the details. He would
then be met as he was last year, by the Noble Lord
(the Secretary at War), who, when he (Mr. Hume) op-
posed a vote of £73,000 for the Recruiting Establish-
Iment, told him that he had before voted for it—
(llear).—lie would therefore oppose this vote in the
early stage, and, instead of passing the vote, would
move for Returns. The Ilouse would then see the
Staff, together with the names of Secretaries and Ad-
mirals, who were included under this head of Sea-
men's Wages. He should °Nose the pay to several
of these individuals, and amongst the rest, to Admi-
ral Sir Alexander Cochrane, who bad £4,000 for
commanding two ships at Plymouth, and three at
Portsmouth. This salary was but £1,500 formerly,
,but now Sir Alexander Cochrane had three Secreta-
ries, one at 121,500 a-year, and all this only for com-
manding one ship of war, two frigates, and a sloop.
It was true that he hoisted his flag on board one of
these ships. lie (Mr. Hume) would not oppose the
House going into the. Committee on the Exchequer
Bills ; but he should protest against this vote being
carried without. proper Estimates. The lion. Baro-
net was aware, that in 1817 the Finance Commit-
tee, when this article of Wear and Tear was under
their coasideration, were furnished by Government
with a statement, from which it appeared that there
were twelve Flag Officers, twelve Secretaries, twenty-
four Clerks, and 1,000 Officers of seamen and ma-
rines attached to the service. Ile mentioned this to
shew that particular information was given to the
Committee of Finance. The House ought to have
the same information now. He (Mr. Hume) would
now shew the difference of the Estimates of this year
from the last, and the House would then see the
trifling reductions which had been made. There were
1,000 seamen less this year than last, the number
this year being 21,000, last year 22,000, which in the
cigar& made one-twenty-second less expense 'than
i hie year. In Oe provisioning of the. Navy then had

r

'7.172.-

it' et been teduttlons made oral to the fall in 11,„
prices of provisions. The charge fin th .t, this year,
was £532,950, which was at the rate of £l. 191. a
rdsm per month. This charge was only three ship.
lings a month more *hen salted pork was from tin
to £412 a ton ; whereas now it was only £5. With
such a fall in the price of provisions, the charge for
victualling the Navy had fallen only from £2. is. to
£2. Is. and finally to Cl. 19s, and el the marine,
were charged for, though from 5,000 to 6,000 were
on shore. The House should have the rates at which
provisions were furnished to each. This statement
was by much too rough. Every charge was the
same as last year, except some slight alteration in the
Ordnance. It was most unreasonable, in the seventh
year of peace, to-be keeping up these charges. There
was another item which he was called nun to no.
Lice, which was most extravagant. The charge us
which he alluded was that of £95,000 for pnwdei
and ball for the Navy. The Committee of Finance,.
in 1817, admitted that in time of war the cha•ge
the Ordance should be necessarily great, but in pence
this charge ought to be much lessened. He could
not think how this powder and ball was disposed of,
unless the Officers fired off the balls for their amw.e-
ment. He should oppose this vote until this vim ef-
-1:95,000 for ball and powder, and £5OOOOO foe pp.
visioning the Navy, were more particularly accon•l•ed
for. In the absence of such particulars, the
would be deserting its duty if it went into' a Cum.
mime to vote these sums.

After a few words from S7r I. COFFIN, Mr. HuNit,
and Mr. WARD, the House went into a Committee rf
Supply, and the folk wing votes were agreed to:

E26.5,16.'. for paring off Exchequer Mils Issued since the 1,
Session of Parliament.

£29,000,000 to pay off and discharge the Exchequer Bills i”
sued for the years 1818, 18)9, 1820,. 1821, and 1822.

£105,181 19s. 4d. to pay off and discharge Irish Treas!!7
Bills issued to the Governor And Company of the Ban': cf Ire-
land, July, 1821, to assist the Manufacturers of Ireland.
X 1,000,000 for Irish Tret.stiry Bids, oatstintlicg in the yt7r
1882.—Upon this vote,
Mr. HUME asked what reason there was for pxr-
ing foul per cent. interest upon Irish Exchequer Bilfs,
when money could be borrowed in this country for
three per cent.? Ile should object to the vote if it
was for the purpose of replacing these Exchequer
Bills at four per cent.
_ _

The CIIA&CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that the Hon. Member had anticipated him in the
communication he had made. It was not his inten-
tion to issue at four per cent.

£4,000,000 were next voted in supply for the ymr 1821, for
the like purpose.—The House resumed, and the Report was
ordered to be received to •morrow.

COURTS UP LAW.

Mr. SCA RLETT wished to know from any of his
Majesty's Ministers what had been done, or was in-
tended, towards rebuilding the Courts of Law in
Westminster? It was reported that it would be two
years before new ones were built, and much as that
would be inconvenient he should not object to it if
the old ones were built up for the interval.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that directions had been given to accelerate the exe-
cution of the plan which had been adopted. The new
Courts would certainly not be so long as the Learned
Gentleman had stated. Inquiries had been made na
the subject of rebuilding- the old Courts, hilt it wa;
found that a great supply of new materials would be
quire(' for that purpose.
Mr. BANK ES hoped the estimates of the rmw buil,:-
ing would be laid before the House.
SCOTCH" A PPM STAI ENT.

Lord A. HAMILTON, pursuant to notice, moved
for a copy of the appointment of Alexander Fetrier,
Esq. to the office of Conservator of the Privileges of
the Royal Burghs of Scotland. The Noble Lord said,
that he was not aware that there was any use in such
an appointment ; but he had been told that the ap-
pointment upon this occasion had been made withcA
any salary being attached to it. Not being able to
satisfy himself on this point, however, and finding
that a salary of £2JO a year belonged to it formerly,
he should press his motion, reserving any remarks I:e
might wish to make, till he heard if there was any
salary in the present case.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND sail,
he had no objection to the motion ; but he meant to
state, that the appointment of Mr. Ferrier was with-
out salary. With regard to the nature of the office,
it was created in 1550, for the purpose of watching
over certain commercial privileges which the Royal
Burghs had in trading withite Netherlands. It was
as a tribute of respect that Mr. Ferrier had been ap-
pointed to this situation.
Sir WILLIAM CURTIS said, that if there was
anything improper in the case he was to blame, hav-
ing recommended Mr. Ferrier to the situation. He
did so, because that Gentleman had conducted hies-
self in a distinguished manner in an official situation
he held at Rotterdani; and he could assure the House
he sought after it for honour more than emolument.
After a few observations from Mr. ABERCROMEY
and Mr. PEEL, the Motion was agreed to.