Star.
London, England, 1831-09-03 00:00:00

SPIRIT elk THIN Iarg7ISURNALS.

TIMES.—Our renders ant public know the objet.
lion which we had to the local division of certain coun-
ties for the purposes of the reform bill. The point is,
however. :settled against us : " Dii Acne rortant," there-
fore. is all that we have row to say upon it. Commissioners
arc appointed to carry that division into effect, and for the
more complicated business of assignine districts with the
elective franchise to borottehs in which the number of
°term was not previously sufficient to satisfy the demands
of the bill. The persons named are in every respect onex.
cep: itinah!e : and though by acting in detached paitiesa!ifferent
rules o'prac.iee might in the first instance he adopted, yet in
their general communications with each other,ard by what the
French call eapprachemens, uniformity will undoubtedly be
atta,ned, and all anomalies made to disappear. We appre-
hend that corporate rights and civic privileges will not enter
inta their consideration ; these will remain as before, and
Inca l landmarks in that respect continue unaltered. Their
olijsct is simple to see on whom the right of voting shall be
conferred, aed their 'apart is to be sanctioned by parliament.
The commissioners will have, no doubt, a difficult work to
pet form, and they have an illustrious example before them
of success and honour attending it, in an undertaking soma
a hat similar; fir we recollect, that when all boundaries of
premises were obliterated and all local tights and jurisdictions
emiCancled, by the fire of London in 1666, the celebrated law.
er Justice Dale, or a commission of which he was the head.so
arranged, defined, and elucidated, every thing, drawing order
ont of confusi•'n. that not a single law-suit sprang out of his
settlement. We are glad that the bill, by this nomination
or the commissioners, seems to he carrying into effect, for so
is its success more certain, or the disappointment resultine
from its failure would be mote fearful. We hope they will
Lavin their work immediately. We cannot conclude these
remarks without calling attention to the advantage taken of
his pariiamentmy privilege by an hots. member to cast a slur
en the character of Mr. B. Ker, one of the commissioners.
It would be superfluous to say any thing of the good taste
or manly feeling of a person who could, as we are informed,
seize such an opportunity of gratifying a private dislike, or
venting a personal grudge, on the reputation of the absent ;
but we may hint that Mr.l3. Wall ought not to have been
the person "to throw the first stone." The public has of
late heard complaints enough from him and his family of
unauthorized statements, to warrant us in thinking it im-
prudent in him to assail, on still weaker authority, or rather
on no authority at all, the fair fame of others. The regis-
tration clause was passed last night, after a good deal of dis-
cussion. We see no objection to the principle of this clause,
but think that the proposed machinery will not work so
conveniently as its proposers imagine.
CHRONICLE.—There arc now few persons who do rot
admit the necessity of some sort of provision for the poor in
Ire-lard. The destitution of the people in many parts of
that country is so great, and the attempts to meet the evil by
means of Mentlicity Associations supported by voluntary
subscription have so completely failed, that it is found some
compulsory assesssment must be resorted to. Various plans
have been proposed, both in and out of parliament, for
affording relict' in the last extremity of sit %nog and misery,
without coming to an absolute poor-rate. Among others
who have came forward with plans of this nature we
find General Cockburn, the gentleman who bad the
charge of the discharged soldiers located by Government in
Upper Canada, and who, bath in his evidence before the
Emigration Committee and in his Reports, furnished the
most valuable information as to the most beneficial
motive of providing for the destitute in Canada. Tile
General, in a long and elaborate letter in The Dublin
Evening Post of Tuesday last, protests loudly against
Poor Laws. " I confidently say (be exclaims)—fear it,
English absentee Lords and Irish residing Lardholders—
the day Poor Laws for Ireland, or anything like the En-
gl.sit
lam become law, your estates will not be worth five
years' purchase." To remedy, however, as far as can be,
tic misery •" which (he says) no doubt exists, I
propose a law to enable cer•ain Commissioners (acting
g rolis, and they can be found) to lay a moderate cess on every
it, use in Dublin, and the same in every city and great town
in Ireland, for the support of Menelicity Associations like
that now in Dublin, which is with difficulty kept up by
voluntary subscription. The necessaty officers to be of
course paid. Those in the country to enable the Protestant
ant! Catholic Clergymen, and Presbyterian, where there is
one, with the Churchwardens and any Magistrate residing
in ti e parish, to call a Vestry twice a year, a• which every
person liable to be assessed may attend and vote ; and to en.
able a majority to lay on a co., on housea in small towns
or sillages, and on the land, for the support of the desti-
tute." He adds, " such a system would nut interfete with,
or prevent a continuance of our numerous and well-conduct-
ed Charity School.; and Institutions ; but a more extended
poor rate would put an extinguisher on them all, as no one
would contribute their voluntary subscriptions, or girt at
Geed; y Szrn-ens. if English poor laws were inflicted on us."
POST.—The clause containing the appointment of the
Riding Commission was discussed on Thursday. Although
it hes been remZered by various curtailments somewhat
less objectienable than in the first edition of the Bill,
yet there remains enough to excite our jealousy and
appal cur understanding—our jealousy, because the Par-
liament will confide to a cluster of officers named in fact
by the Minister, though ostensibly by the House, powers
without parallel since the days of •' quo war•rauto" in the
r. igri of Charles 11.—our understanding, because these TO-
pt, table though human personages will be expected to
acquire a preciseness of information,maintain an impartiality,
and exercise a judgment rarely the lot of created beings,
and never, so far as we know. of Whigling majorities.
To this we must odd our difficulty in believing that
three inemits are sufficient for such variety of operations;
but as the expenses will not be limited in the Estimates,
there is a possibility that, with the best horses and
the best advice, they may be enabled to do more than
our experierce at present will warrant us in conceiving.
The powers gi ten by the first plan of the constitution have
certainly been narrowed ; we highly approve this limitation.
notwithatarding the ministerial promise to the people that
tlwy should have the bill, the whole bill, and nothing but
the bill. Yet powers remain as capable of abuse as they
are large in extent ; the commissioners, or any one of them,
are still authorized to summon any persons or demand ally
papers they may think fit ; by interrogating to extort any
opinions, to peruse say documents, examine any charters,
and canvass the validity of them all.
H ER A ED.—Although we approve of the tact which
ministers have of late displayed in discouraging any unne-
cessary discu►aion upon the Reform Bill, as tending to cause
thlay, yet we cannot say that we altogether admire the ex-
tent to which, in some Instance', they seem disposed to

carry their prudent principle of nun-resistance. Not to delay
the bill unnecessarily is one thing, but to precipitate it, with-
out answering any plausible objections which may have been
urged against particular parts of the measure, is another. We,
who have from the first deprecated all excitement relative to
the bill, and have argued that. ass measure of reason and jus-
tice, it should be carried by teat temperas a d ottelligent
discussion which best promotes the t►iumol• of reason--are
of opinion that if, where captivating sophi• !iy or plausible
arguments are used by the adversaries of the me.•sure, the
only reply of Ministers is by the suet co.e of a sweeping
majority, the accelerated velocity wi•ich the Bill gains Con e-
by in its progress through the Ilot•se mar b • dearly pur-
chased by the effects which unansu ere.l les to•s often
produce upon public opinion. The NIL is •rs s'lolll.l t.ot tall
into the mistake that the whole people or:. di4Ld into refor-
mers and anti-reformers. There is a L rge •.cl.tss, who
may be said to have no fixed minion on the sithj.it, and who
wait to hear discussion, and to be convinced by er ter t. It is
very easy for the violent supporters of theßill to say " hurry
it on at all hazards; but we say " let there be no unne-
cessary delay, but let there be all neeessarg ta•eussion"—
so will those he convinced who wool; otherwise be disgusted.
clod an accession of converts will be gained to the measure
through every step of its progress. Tue class of persons of
whom we speak have been permitted of late to hear scarcely
any thing but %hat falls from owe side, and they naturally
begin to saspect the. when Ministers content themselves with
saying nothing it is only because they have nothing to say.
The prudence of not aiding the opposition in their attempts
to procrastinate the great measure that is now before the
house is obvious, but the reasoning part of the public will
always recognise the difference between vexatious and legiti-
mate discussion ; and the opposition would do themselves
as much mischief by provoking the one, as the ministers
may sometimes do by avoiding the other. If they have the
confidence which, they ought to have in the great cause
which they have championed, they should act fearlessly,
upon the principle that the more it is discussed, and the
better it is understood, the more acceptable it will eventually
he to the country—(tt is we say, retaining our opinion of
the injurious cobsapenees of the division of counties, and
the admission of fatal r.nant• at will to the elec,ive franchise.)
But Ministers seem at present to act upon the opposite prin.
ciple, anti-to aprreNend that unless a decision on each provi-
sion of the b.ll be pvcipitaterl, the ultimate success of the
measure must be endangered. Nor should Ministers sup.
pose that an int nression tor good or for evil is not to be made
on the tlouse of Lords--or, at least, on many members of
that house—by the disc ission of the principles and details
of the bill in the House of Commons. They should bear
in mind that the publication of the debates in the Lower
House put their Lordships, wiehin a few hours after they are
uttered in possession of every argument used for and
against the bill is every stage. Thus every discus-
sion of the bill in the House of Commons may be considered
also a discussion of it in the House of Lords, inasmuch as it
must make a mural impression either for or against it among
the hereditary legislators, who will hereafter have to decide
upon it. Let not, then, the ministers, by following the ad-
vice of intemperate, injudicious, or Insincere friends, fur-
nish the adversaries of the Bill with the most plausible
of all the objections that can be advanced against their
own measure, and thus render them more formidable
titan their own wisdom or talents could make them. We
know all that may be said—and a great deal has been said
—as to causing delay; but it is impossible that a great pro-
portion of the people of k;ngland should not reason thus—
If the measure be a good one, it cannot suffer by such de-
lay as is reccessary to refute the arguments used against it,
or become the less likely to be generally approved by its
being more fully and clearly unfolded to the sober reasott:and
calm good sense of the country."

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

1101.75 F. OF LORDS, SEPT. 2.

Several private Bills were brought up from the Commons.
SCCLWASTICAL COURTS' SILL.

The LORD CHANCELLOR, pursuant to notice,
brought in a Bill to make Members of Parliament amenable
to the process of Ecclesiastical Courts. The Noble and
Learned Lend stated the existing distinction in the juris-
diction of courts of equity and courts of christian, commonly
cakd ecclesiastical courts. In the former, costempts of
court were punish.d by commitment of the offending parties.
The courts of Chancery and Exchequer could compel a de-
fendant to rut in his answer to a bill, or obey the orders of
the court on pain of necessary sequestration. The power
given to judges in civil courts was sufficient to protect the
public in the prosecution of their legal claims, but the eccle-
siastical courts were in a different state. The process of
these courts could reach 'to higher punishment than excom-
munication, by which the offending party was excluded
from the body of the church, and disabled from bringing
any action at common law. The writ czcommuniecto
pictr,lo might be directed to the sheriff for apprehending
the party and keeping hint until delivered by the writ ex-
conimnicato ddikiando, after he had conformed to the
jurisdiction of the church. Thus it appeared that courts
christian could only proceed against the soul by excommuni.
cation. That, however, was a mere brestunsfulnren. which
Lord Stowe' took away by an Act passed in the 54th of
George the Third. As the law stood, members of parlia-
ment, by virtue of their privilege, might defy all the pro-
ceedings of courts christian, so that those courts could
neither touch their souls nor bodies. There existed this
monstrous anomaly—at least a thousand persons, including
all the lords in that house, were free from ecclesiastical ju-
risdiction. It might be said that It was of no consequence,
because members of parliament would not fall under cede.
siastical censure; but he had to remind their Lordships
that the proceedings in ecclesiastical Courts were not con.
fined to divorces a asensa et tb.oro and nullity of marriage.
I Death, the lot of all men, was connected with making wills.
A younger son might wish an elder brother to prove a will
made in his favour. If the person holding the will was no
a Member of Parliament, he might be compelled to prove
it; but if one of their Lordships, being an elder brother,
kept back a will, no power could compel to bring it into the
Ecclesiastical Court. if he committed a contempt, there
was no remedy. There were many other cases in which Mem-
bers of Parliament were not amenable to the ecclesiastical
law, and he might say such a state of things never
existed in any country. That there should be ten or
eleven hundred pounds beyond the reach of the law
was must lamentable. A member of Parliament might be
sued for alimony, and suffer the party to starve, because
the Court could not compel him to answer. The commis-
sinners of legal ii.quiry had come to a resolution on this
subject, but the noble and learned lord wished to avoid de-
lay, and pass a bill, applying a remedy during the present
session. His object was to place ecclesiastical mats on the
bailie footing as the Court of Clianceiy, namely, within the
provisions at the acts of William the, Third and George the
Thiel. The bill would allow the ecclesiastical courts the
poser of sequestration in contempt or disobedience of
the orders of those courts, and place them, with respect to
contempt, on the same foundation as courts of equity.
The bill was then read the first time, and ordered to be
printed.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from
the Roman Catholics of Galway for extension of the elective
i franchise.