Star.
London, England, 1809-02-16 00:00:00

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I

,sad purposely put .them out of hi:
possession, that he might assign that as a reaseni fqi
not producing them. He was asked whether they
were destroyed ? The reply was, that they retie
• net; for he had handed them over to a friend. He
had left the Noble Lord with a promise that he
would immediately consult a Learned •Gentleetian;
the late Solicitor General, to whom he would submit
the business, fake his adiihe hOw_ to act,. and acettaipt
the Noble- Lord with' the result • -ii-knifter past
three.that day. The Noble Lord said *-he &tretided
at the time and place appointed ; hut,. instead of `the
man, he found a note' fron hint; stating, that' his
Learned Friend was preitessreiedly engaged before
the Master of the Rolls,aandohe conld..not see him,
but would take a speedy oppostmity of_consulting
him, • and .would • act • aceerdihg lo the advice he,
should. give him. The Noble. Lord said, he felt it his
• dtityle communicate these eirtunistances iMtneate-
ly to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to move for the j
production of those papers, and the attendance of this
Solicitor, for which he had already moved. • As' he'
had not seen those documents, he could not say they
would•bear directly on the case of the army ; but as'
the disposal of places under Gevernment had been
frequently mentioned in the course of this enneiry,
and as he understood the papers in question bare di-
reedy upon that subject, he hoped there would be no
objection to their production. When they sheald
come before the House, he should suggest that, as in
the case of the letters produced last. ntght,• a 'Select
Committee should be appointed to examine them, and
report to the House such opinion as they should form,-
touching the mattereontained in them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
hoped, that when • the Noble Lord • expected this
threaty which tie alluded to, wouldbe kept in eternal,
remembrance, a just estimate would be formed on
the subject: The Noble Lord was right, as to the
• seriousuess_with which Mr. Adam had urged the ex-
pediency of a speedy and 'public enquiry ; but he
was very far from right, indeed, when he said that
the Honourable Gentleman, with whom this proceed-
ing originated, had been forced to the present mode
of prosecution. There was not, he was convinced,
more than two, dissentient voices in the House,
when the present 'mode Was proposed ; there was
no undue interference in its adoption—no extraor-
dinary course—no secured majority : • but it Was pro-
ceeded in- by -one free; unanimousoand appropriate
consent. • The Noble Lord now urged the inconve-
niency of-a public inquiry ;" but he himself acquiesced
in the moons on which it was at -first founded. He
had not moved fcir a seleetCoinmittee, but merely- for
a Committee-; and snob, no doubt, from his acquain-
tanse :and connection -with the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Wardle), he must have amceived -to be his desire
and wish, It been agreedto hythe full consent
-of the Houle; and it not dealing fairly-by the ac-
cused,- it wits not dealingfa*ly by &,e -House nor by
him, now- to sendOforth so harsh- and unfounded an
impvtatioeon their propriety, to the public. What,
•vesti-40-righrto rely,- that the facilities' of • the accused
had. been impeded; or his tourse interrupted, when,
on the contrary,- every convenience had been afford-
ed, and every help -given which it was possible for
ee-ere.e.-Teee °Elbe House to procure ? If every simi-
lar investigation were retrospectively viewed, it would
be seen that there -never was an oceasiun on which
-less obstruitioh had been given, or More aid afforded.
Thisthe saw plainly was an attempt to prejudice the
public mind against the present inquiry ; but he
would oppeal even to the Noble Lord himself, could
'any thing be more plainly unanimous than a case in
which not a single division had emoted ? He was well
convinced, Worn what he knew of the Noble Lord,
that he would be the very last man in the House
either to give up any opinion of his own, or accede to 1
• the opinion of any other when he did 'not like it.—
(Hear ! hear !) As to the rapidity with which this j
proceeding had been conducted, he would only ob-
serve, that the Hen. Mover had had his own time for
arrangement, and there certainly did not occur any
instance, during the course of examination, in which
he required any reasonable delay, that it was not
granted. There had been no concluding period fixed,
and where there had been a supposition that witnesses'
could not attend, a conditional adjournment had
been allowed. With respect to the so much'spokee
of threat of infamy attaching to the accuser in case of
failure, he must sayhe had heard of no such threat ; but
he had heard, that if it appeared that this accusation
had originated in a vile conspiracy, and had seen pro-
ceeded in on false and fabricated evidence, then, cer-
taii 1.- censure must fall somewhere. As to the unfair
attack of which the Noble Lord complained, he was
ready to say no* what he had said last night, namely,
that the Noble Lord was very right in not referring
to any particular case, until he knew whether or not
he could produce the papers. But there had been no
-stigma whatever cast upon him (Lord Folkestone).
Ile certainly knew the Solicitor to whom the Noble
lord had referred, but he must beg leave to declne
the recollection of having done him any favour ; at
least if he had, the gratitude of the 'person obliged
, was stronger than his own memory—but the Noble I
Lord had forgotten to tell, that When he called upon
htui (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) in the morn-
ing, he had expressly hoped the/ no sense Of obliga-
tion in the Solicitor to him, would prevent the papers
being produced, and the affair investigated. But the
Noble,l,ord had gone 'very far* indeed, when he sta;
ted that inyiermation of Officers competent to give it
had been refused, for fear of Government's dis-
pleastee. It was easy for any man to see that this
Was an attempt to create prejudice in the minds of
the people.; It was a' most unfair a,nd ungenerous'
assertion. No new case was brought forwaftl, no
new evidence produced ; but indeed it was said more
' cases are:fin-ore evidence could be pruddeed,v,-ere it not
for eeeeOfGovertiment's displeasure. Was this just, or
riebr or lend? Why, the Noble Lord should have
-
at least delayed until he had investigated the cases,.
• .and learned a little more moderation aid justice from
the experience of his past errors in this very proceed-
lug. No doubt, at the commencement, he thoeght
many cases very different indeed from what they af-
terwards appeared ; and how did he knoW that he
had not made the same mistake as to.the future ones*,
to which he now alluded ? The Noble Lord had
better first fee the papers, as on former occasions, and
then he could be a better judge as to whether the
chi Mes could be substantiated, lie hoped the House
ecotilltleieicuse the warmth with which he had spoken,
but affroceitlekt from his interest in the subject; and

a. . ..., 4
I,he should, ha &moldered- „him
iatialept. .
!Lora FOLK ,ily.
with respect to the -new caw,
they were numerous, but that 'this
instance which could not be proceeo,
of evidence 'arising from the. cause he had asslghed.
I-As talhe charge of itifamy-:-Lhorepeate‘tliii, it had
been asserted that infamy meat • fall sehiewhere—on
the acetified, if guilty. valise-accuser, if he Could' not"
substantiate his charges—(grer, hear !]
The CHANCELLOR of the*EXCHEQUER—,
" If there are Officers, who from such a cause will ,
not give information, why not call them to the bar of
' the'llouie, where they can be compelled ?"
Lord FOLKESTONE--" Will the Right Hon.
Gentleman inform me how I am to do that without.
knowing, their names r,.
Mr. ADAM rose in some warmth, and said, that
he felt himself compelled to make some observations
• on what he understood had fallen from the Noble
Lord when he was not in his place.- He had heard
that the Noble Lord had asserted, that the Honour-
able Mover of this business had been driven to his
present course by " the professed adviser of the• Duke
of York." Now he had always understood that it
hid been the courtesy of the House to designate every
one of its. Members by their proper or professional
title. A mere, Member was called ' the Honourable
Gentleman ;' a Privy Councillor,' the Right Honour-.
able 'Gentleman ;' and -, a person -of his profession,
i the Learned and Honourable. Gentleman.' He saw
plainly the cause of the deviation in the present in-
stance. The Noble Lord had not chosen to say the
• Learned Gentleman has forced 'the Hon.,Movei to
'this course, but the adviser of the Duktrof York has
• done so. This was an assertion which he bail aright
to counteract. He had undoubtedly his feeliiigs as
a witness, but he certainly did not carry into that
LI-louse any other principles than those by which a
• Member should be influenced. He was anxious to
repel the epithet -which had been attached to him.—
He had in the course of a long life and arduous line
of active duty, preserved an immaculate public cha-
i ratter ; and he defied any man to say, that in the
I course of 25 years, he had ever deviated from the
strict principles of integrity. . He had a growing and
a young family—he had his character and his talents
.alone to rely on—he had to struggle as much as any
man, with the res angusta elomi ; yet that House could
not produce a single instance in which he had desert-
ed his duty, or yielded to temptation. He had adop-
ted a Tine of independent conduct in the beginning of
his life, and had uniformly adhered to it, scorning to
barter that independence for interest. If, then, such
had been his progress, it was a little too late now to
make the House believe that be merged the charac-
ter of a Member in 'that of the Duke of York's ad-
viser: Hs bad a long intercourse with the illustrious
Duke, and it was natural for him to take an interest
in the method of proceeding. He had, therefore,
stated his sentiments on the subject • at first strongly
urging publicity, and, as well as he could recollect,
when the proposal for a public commission was made,
there were but two dissentient voices in the House.
He never attempted to stand in the way of a free and
perfect inquiry, nor tried to obtrude his personal ad-
vice on the Committee ; but after being called Up
.as.
he had been now,' he thought it but justice to speak'
his mind onenly, fairly, and fully to the House. .
Lord POLKSTONE declared, that he certainly
had applied the epithet of" learned" to the Learned
Gentleman ; but at all-events he was sure that when:
he called him the 0 adviser of the Duke of York,','
he did not mean to cast any imputation on his inte-
grity.
Mr. CALCRAFT could not silently hear the.
Noble Lord say that his Honourable Friend (Mr.
Wardle) had been deserted by all the Committee, 1
except by him ; for his own part, if he felt himself 1
competent to the task, he was very willing to give
his feeble aid. He must remark the manly course
which the Honourable mover had chosen, standing
as he did singly and alone. He had rested his credit
on the case, and had proceeded boldly to the justifica.;
tion of his charges. But he could not allow the Noble
Lord thus to arrogate to himself superior merit to_the
rest of the Committee. He had read, or knew very
well he should read, the Noble Lord's panegyric in.
a certain publication (a laugh) ; but he could not
help saying it would come from any one with a much I
better grace than from the Noble Lord himself.
Lord FOLKSTONE said, he had not meant to
pass a panegyric on himself ; he.had been misundet-
stood.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee: I
A. Member here said, that an unfavourable impres-
sion had been made on the public, relative to the ex-.
pence of the establishment in Gloucester-place ; now
he wished some fiicnd of the Duke of York's might
be called in and examined as to that point.
Mr. Thomas Walker was called but could not be I
found.
Mr. WARDLE said, as he had understood that I
some suspicions had been sent abroad relative to the
authenticity of the Duke of York's letters, whose
writing had been only spoken to by Mrs. Clarke, he
now wished.to have the matter put beyond.doubt.
Sir VICARY GIBBS said he did not believe the
writing had been denied in that House, and that
when any Honourable Member brought forward a
letter in the House, he generally substantiated it by
as good evidence-as he could produce.
Mr. William Macdowall .was called, but was not
in attendance. He had received his summons-but a
short time..
Mr: WARDLE wished to have the two letters of
Samuel Carter to Mrs. Clarke read.
Mr. LEACH suggested the propriety of proving
the hand writing. .
Mrs. CL A RKE was accordingly called in.
Q. ( By Mr. WARDLE.) you know whose
writing this is ? (shewing the letters of Carter). A.
Yes, it is Samuel. Carter's.—Q. Have you ever seen
him write ? A. Yes, often.
[General CLAVERING'S and the Baroness Now-
KEN's letters were here produced to the witness, and
similarly identified.]
Q. Did you ever. see Mr. Elderton ? A. Yes, I
obtained for him the Paymastership of the Zed. Light
.Dragoons.. -Q. Ate those letters his ? A. They
are the letters of the elder Mr. Elderton.
Witness ordered to withdraw.
Mrs. CLARKS--44 I beg -leave -here to say a few
words to the Committee ; Mr. Nicholl has said, that
.1 lepresented myself as married to Mr. Dowler:—it

bribe
- ••
should moose be, hailleetid'foi
Witlidrew,:kand ,tits
letters ; the we're Al dies tol
locestor.iilace. Those rat Wed
'2 _
L-- • • - t'li
• •
." Hostinitun 1M AS write to. beg you will obtain me
leave girince, without which I shall be reduced to a sad dilem-
.
. ma. rise-Adjutant hassaid -141FaS0411VOTIltatregilglighlitritn103r,
days, SO that iinksi I set leave, Tifsill arrested. I beg, ho-,
'toured...Madam, .the lhebur of A: line. fro you; to dispel myl
fears, but not if it, could hurt year-4300 fuit id that. "
" I remain;hotsoured Madam, &c. . •IbeeARTERP.
,ND. IL
" HONOURED MADAM, "Isle of Wight. '
" I am' truly sorry that I have not as oppeetanity of thanking
you personally for your benevolence. For your satisfaction, I.
have set down a list of the eirphnces which I have unavoidably
curred. I hope, honoured Madam, you will, extend your kind
ness to Me as you may lee by the inclosed, the state of my purse.)
" Believe me, honbured Madam, &c. S. CARTER."
No. 111.
66 *HONOURED MADAM, " Spithead. •
" I hoPe humbly that you will pardon the libertrof this address
—I am now on board,.and have been able to procure no stock 4
nor have I any money-1 am obliged to keep. watch for four hours
tog-ether and to live on salt meat, the ship's allowance ; and the
Tornio so. bad, it is Impossible to drink it. I hope, honoured Ma-
dam,' Ton will not suffer ate to starve in the, situation to which
your bene,volence has raised me. I hope you Will save me from
horrible.cOntrition, and do ass att. swede
.t Believe Met hoovered Madam, &C. SAMUEL CART/R."
The Baroness Nolckeu's letters were here about to
be read, when
Mr. LEACH expressed his doubts of the propriety
of their being read, as they related to a civil appoutl-
went.
Mr. WHITBREAD slid it would be better to
leave that point for future discussion, and proceed t 6
'read General Clavering's letters, as they stood next
in order. •
The Clerk accordingly proceeded to read them.
No. I.
" Mr DEAR MRS. CLARKE., •
"Bishop's Waltham.
. " Where your note has beeu travelling 1 cannot guess, for it has
, only just arrived here; however, I console myself In the hope of
•a snore fortunate time.—Yours, dear Mrs. Clarke,
" M. CI AVERING:'

Na 11.

" Mr DEAR MRS. CLARI7E,--- "Bishops Waltham•
" From what you mentioned of the Duke of York, do note
think he has a proper comprehension of my meaning. By the
Defence Act, men are not compelled to serve out of the United
Kingdom, and but till six months after peare. I wl*h to raise a
battalion for general service, and to have it officered from the
half pay list. Do get the Act and read it, and do all good things
and on good terms.—Yours. " H. M. CLAVERING."

No. UT.

" Mr ,ISR AR MRS. CL ARX E, " Bishops Waltham.
" I certainly shall not pursue the partridges on the Ist of Sep-
tember. 1• shall be at the Prince of Wales's Coffee-house in my,
boots, at shr o'clock. Receive me in this dress it' you can, and as
much later than that time as you choose. —Believe, dear Mrs.
Clarke, H. M. CLAVERiNG."
-

• •
Glaring that he I.
possession, that h

iimself cu I shout
4 -
el4lanati. witness here
did nocAa A;C:. to read the le
t lilts not t rs:Clirke. Gloom
proceeded in frOm • • from, amuel Carter.
• 1 •