Star.
London, England, 1823-06-03 00:00:00

town, whilst, on the contoirpOte mutkalwaysdhlors.-- ett.b.. chgvitter introduced by tlirrisloOlc,!bord -.::,--
titan his Honourable Friend 0111,1gOr
..might
i - - ' .• -
beau • 114 r' .• unworthy of Wm.- They-haritheir
of the title of worthy .Re prima- -ta leiofor the popula- irtes etatie-tirne after the tiniellg'lheit nurnbers of
tion of 'Aberdeen, though electea 'to sis,4l4,ttnoinn "Bebtehrienemigrated to the mere genial clidlate of
against the wishes al that juntOie ir„,-,01, macii, ;70.e South;and by their industry and prudence be-
I only through his being supping( 'thy A majority joi caoreq scessful in the World. They in consequence,
.the other •Iturglis. .1f any• _ ' .membeto.F. I excited' the envy of persons less fortunate, who gave
prop ert) in Scot-
a better course than that he pro he slicinld hone' rise to 'those' alluslonsstroften had recorse.to at sub-
no objectioh to adopt. it. The Noblfi' Lord concluded sequent periods. Men of landed
. land were as independent 2s in England, and few
OC-
by Moving the following Resolutlens :
ca..; „Is of public importanoe.c
" I. That it appeared by a certified Copy of the Rotted* Free-
holders of every County in Scotland, as last made up, laid before their sentiments rnAterj ould be found in which
County differed. As the Noble
this House in July 1820, that the total number of persons having
a righj to vote in all those Counties together did nut esters 2889. House
proposed no specifle• plan, he did not think the
"1. That by the same Return it appears that the grcalest 1
House should enter into the pledge required. On
number of persons having a right to vote in any one Couuty tlisi '
t iese grounds be svould•move the previous question.
not exceed 240, viz. for the County of Fife; and that thesmalkst Mr. KENNEDY said he was glad the Noble Lord
number did'not exceed nine, vie. for the County of Croroarty. had brought forward this question; and although he
" 3. That it further appears from the same Return, that the,
persona have a right to vote in several Counties, and conic- did not suppose that his arguments would influence
e'd the H
quently that the total number of Voters fur all the Counties in t )er house or. the Public,. yet he could not al-
&otland, is considerably less than 2889. ' low the opportunity to pass without expres.sing his
"4. That it further appears to•tltis House, that the right of entiments. The. Hon. Baronet opposite bad asserted
voting for a Scotch County depends, not on the possession of
that this measure, if successful, wculd introduce an
the dentiniant utile of a real landed estate in that County, but on • .
alteration in the law of landed property in Scotland.
bolding the superiority over such estate, which superiority may
be, and frequently is, disjolued from the property, insomuch, For his part he believed that it would be attended
that of all the persons qualified to vote for a Scotch County, with no such effect. But the Hon. Baronet had been
there may not he one who is possessed of a single acre of land inconsistent; for he had said that this measure would
Within the County, while the whole of the land may belong to, •
iiiicrease the influence of the Aristocracy. In his opi-
and be the property of, persons who have not a single vote for
m.
the lieprePentative. on that would entirely depend upon the manner in
"5. That this House will, early in the next Session of' Parlia. . which the Aristocracy conducted itself. The fact
;pent, take Into its most serious consideration the state of Repre- was, that since the Union of the two countries, the
sensation of Counties in Scotland, with a view to effect some ...
aootcli Members had always been subservient to the
extension of the number of votes, and to establish souse con-
nection between the right of voting and the landed property of existing Government; and so they would always con-
that country.", . tinue, as long -a> the present system lasted. Ile wished
Mr. MAXWELL rose to second the Resolutions. to dra\v the attention of the House to the statements
It was impossible, he thought, for the House to, re- which bad been made by the Hon. Gentleman near
fuse their concurrence in the motion. The state of him. The Representatives of Scotch Counties were
the Representation in Scotland was neither creditable thirty in number, and the electors returning them
to the country itself nor tUthat House. The right amounted te2,5:30; so that upon the average each
of voting, as now held, could not be long exercised. County Member was returnedrhy about ninety-seven
with advantage, either to those who enjoyed it or to persons; and yet each County Member was supposed
the country at large. The great argument of • tbe to represent a population of 69,000 persons. Now,
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) against Reform if this was true, as lie thought had been sufficiently
was, that the prelent system worked well. This, he shewn, that these Members were often returned by
felt quite assured, was not the casein Scotland. The persons who had no property in 'the county, it- fur-
felt a case which called for inquiry as strongly as
great mass of the People there were wholly dissatis-
fied. In many parts, he would admit, the measures allp case he had ever known. It was a rulfortune
from that the Scotch freeholder had no such thing as a
of the present Administration were supported
conscientious motives; but those who did support c!ounri meeting, where the feeling of the county
them acted more from credality than prudence. It.;,,conld be expressed. The Noble Lord opposite had
was said that the House of Commons, as now coOsti.' Oiled what prevented them.? He would answer, that
tuted, represented rather the judgment than the fed' at present the Constitution recognised no such thing
ings of the People. He ,did not think it'„rsip{exlinted las a county meeting of any magnitude; and to those
either. The badness ofthe system was preyed Ity the which were held he Would apply the language which
load of taxes under which the country was suffering,, in another place had been applied with another
Every one in Scotland must feel degiadid by the meaning; for he would' say that a county meeting in
present mode in which the country
Scotland was the most arrant farce imaginable. Now,
was represented.
It was quite ridiculous to persevere .in a system in .he would ask, was it prurient, was it safe, that no outlet
which the People could have no confidence. : should be allowed for the expression of the feeling of
Sir G. CLERK said,. that, as being interested ' the people? He (Mr. Kennedy) had been taught that the
in the subject, ;he hoped the House would, allow him franchise* which extended itself over the greatest mass
to make a few observations. He should confine ihem of property was the most safe. Now in Scotland
strictly to the County Representation. It would not; there was a considerable proportion of property en-
he knew, le easy to persuade 'many Honourable tirely unrepresented. Lethim not bd told that' it was
Members that a system could be a good one, which virtually represented, for it had no representation at
differed so much from what.prevailed in this coon. ell. The Hon. Gentleman, in conclusion, thanked his
try. It was, however, adapted to the state of society, Noble Friend for the motion which he had made, and
lin Scotland ; it was approved of by the People, had declared hit intention of supporting it.
it existed ever since *Wand had a •Constitotimi. • Mr. HORACE TWISS said, that if the Noble Lord,
instead of going into a detail, had contented himself
The. first evil' pointed out by, the N'Oble'Lorcl Was,
with moving for leave *to bring in a Bill- for the re-
that property was not the ground of' the elective frau•
cliiel--that no extent of land conferred that right..= medy of any particular grievance, he (Mr. H. Twist)
'lt was otherwise in England. No petion could vote' Would not have oppoSed it. But the Resolution of
for a County•Mensheir who dirl.not possess It freehold.
the Noble Lord Went to a tntal change of the whole
The Scottish law was• net. more anomalous in that system.. The Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken,
I respect than the law of England, and therefore be had lamented that•there was no outlet to the public
did not think it constituted a ground ef.change., The feeling in Scotland, .forgetting that but a moment
fore hehad
be-
inconvenience was not so great as the.Nosletord lamented that no such feeling existed.—
wished to. represent it ; for le' would put it
to the The Noble Lord seemed to overlook one, of the
.
Noble Lord himself whether there was in Scotland strongest arguments•against his measure, iii. the
any person of considerable property Oho bad not ac- Terms of the Union. He was far from arguing that
quired the right to vote? IVlany, he would admit, every provision of that Treaty should be immutable,
enjoyed the' right from a mere technical poiseision of but he was sure that.a change in the state of the' lie-
property. It.would be impossible to devise any mode presentation had not at the time of the Union been
'of election by which-the sense of the lauded interest considered as likely to take place. He did not think
could be more effectually expressed than it was at that any treaties were of sufficient force to bind a peo-
present. The Noble Lord snarl this Could' not be the' pie against making such alterations as the common
case, as many of the voters were merely nominal.... _advantage of all, tendered necessary—(•lfear). But
The Noble Lord himself was chosen by
.a large ma:l he .contended that this, of all other subjects, was that
jollity of nominal voters.createck.by, the Overweening "ilia! PrFiouted the greatest difficulty towards ascer-
influence of a certain blethlenunsv . The infroeoie a taming what was clearly understood to.lse the ad-
thevantage of all. An argument had been derived from
aristocracy was much less felt inEcothind than in
England, and the tendency of the measure now pro. the abolition
.cf heritable jurisdiction. But it was
posed was to increase it very Much. It Was.irne-the .evident from the manner in v;iaich heritable jurisdic-
greatfins he, tion had been mentioned in
body of the popylation had no votel4the Act of Union, that
would not admit that to be ate "evil in iiielE If they{ the abolition of that jurisdiction could not sanction
were to break down in Scotland those barriers that any alteration in the elective franchise. The heritable
existed for so many. yeats,•he did uot see Where they jurisdiction had
.been mentioned in that Act as a
were to stop. How could they.resist_ the proprixitiOrq. species of right of property, and therefore the abo=
of those who were friendly to a more extended pion lition could he justified only on the ground that any
of Reform? One topic had been carefully kept out .abolition of private property could be justified, viz.
of view by the Noble Lord-be .meaot the Act 'of, by a suitable compensation ; and accordingly in the
Union. He (Sir George Clerk) was not dielsiisedl,ol, Act for abolishing heritable jurisdiction,. a cooripensa-
carry the argument so far as son" and to deny that don: had_ been expressly provided for. Without
the Legislature might. not exercise a certain' disco- 'dwelling longer on that point, he 'would proceed to
Lion ; but he contended that the Article, of Mien advert to the other ground of the Noble Lord. The
were a .complete hat to any Material- alteration irs Noble Lord asserted that the representation of a
the sxstero of Scotch Representation. • .There Was no Scotch' county was only a paper superiority. The
necessity for any change, and it was not celled for Noble Lord. had said. that he would have real pro-
by the People. What evils had Scotland suffered per_ty, if be could ;if not, prope:ty in another shape.
from the present system? None that -he could.see. Wb.*t then, if the Noble Lord's arguments were cor;-
It was in 141 o! r# -*bete the elective • franc' hi rect.; became of the
.franchise of the most populous
was most emensiv4ymijoyed that the greatest evils towns, wkin the non-delivery of a signed paper gave
existed. He might appeal t 0 the state of Irelod to an individual a right of voting ? What became
for some years back, Lb prove t4ittlt6 Scotchsystent again of the franchise of other Boroughs, where a right
worked 4106 better than .that where the right Of al:voting was given merely by boiling a pot ? The
voting was so universal. . The only evil the Noble lion. Gentleman, after some further arguments, in
Which he took a view of the general subject of Re-
Lord complained of was, that property did not con=
' fey the right olvoting. .He admitted, however, that fOrm,;4liichiticd by declaring it to be his intention to
there were very few possessing property whci :did not oppose the Motion. .
enjoy that right, and that numbers. were acquiring .Sir.J..MACKINTOSH said, that in arguing the
it every day. As to the delayst the inconyentente, 'question he w.ould remind the House of an observa-
and expense of WhiCh the 140,h1e LOrd Complained in, tion which had been made by an Hon. Baronet in the
116 owl) case,giei.,wein not greater than than.) eiee. early paft of the evening, viz. that this case not only
..xienced everydatiaconsequence of contested.electionn called for a Reform,- but that it was one which, if
lin thiseoumtly.aWith- respect to the Sherifkriefer as agreed tai,%;plitd Oen; by any necessary consequence'
he knew, they alwaysected With the greaten *tar. lead to any other change in the parliamentary constl-
tialityAhe&WeLosd st;ated tb4political biases:liked :iation. The Hon. Baronet h4cl stated some of those.
inrthisgoorta.. U. would put. it to the Noble Lord, reasons Which'were • advanced by every • opponent, f '
lkwhether there were not-as many of the dodges who Re&srin. He had argued, that because some abuses
typtecifor itagainst him.tißon the occasion alluded to? existed. in ;the English. Constiturion, they justified the
;-'.,4ttirio the other case, with which lie occupied
.Xo, general abuses, whirl pregailed- in the whole. Scotch
illith. ,ocib“insabig ohnliu nte. it went to. a Jury, system. , tipwitis Noble! Friend; in introducing the
*l6 thersaoe.theigobse_Loed one itiating damages:
question, had not .on stated as aitobjeCtipn that the
tt+.3#er,therefore, and apt tile entets.l6oulii• have present system inlaid' landedpropY4tofS; but that
• ~ i
'beende objects' wars inithadversion. ...He WM icirry t opened the, door to those who were not-proprietors.
to bear those common-place calumnies against the But of what avail was it to state in this argument,