Star.
London, England, 1813-04-03 00:00:00

EAST INDIA CHARTER.

Lord HOLLAND rose to pre?nt s-veral Petii
tions, praying for Peace. His Lordsh;p s lid, it was
the unquestioned privilege of • a Peer to present any
Petition made in proper terms, and it might be suffi-
cient merely to state the object of the petition, but its
this instance he found it due to himself to state a few
words to the House. The Petitions bad been in his
hands some time. They were from persons of res
spectability, principally engaged in trade, who had
conceived this to be a proper opportunity to present
them, as there was a probability of putting an end to
the war. They stated in respectful terms the eolith
nuance of war, expressing a hope that every attempt
might be made by the Government •to make peace
on advantageous and honourable grounds. In case
the enemy should demand any thing derogatory to
the security and welfare of the Country, they were
ready to make every sacrifice in support of the na-
tional honour. The Noble Lord observed, that when
the Petitions were put in his hands, he endeavoured
to dissuade the Petitioners from presenting them to
Parliament, conceiving there were some doubts on
the propriety of presenting any Petitions to Polio.,
ment on the subject, because it was not reasonable to
suppose, at that time, any Petition of the Sort would
be listened to. The Petitioners had, however, since
done him the honour of entrusting the Petitions to
him, under the wish that he would present them.
In giving his opinion against the presentation of the
Petitions, he had not laid down any principle against
Petitions for Peace ; on the contrary, he conceived if
that object could be obtained on a fair and honour-
able foundation, that it was the duty of every Mem-
ber to urge it. His Lordship said, he understood
that hopes of Peace had been raised by the brilliant.
successes of last year, and that the Prince Regent's
Government would take steps, in conjunction with
our Allies, and enter into negociation for Peace.—.
He did not mean to deny, that such intentions and
wishes had not been felt by the Government under
certain circumstances, nor did he rise to give notice
of any Motion on the subject of the Petitions. He
was only anxious to express his sincere hope that a
report, namely, that it was the intention of Govern-
ment to wrest from the enemy all they had acquired
during twenty years back, before they listened to
Peace, was untrue. If he could believe that persons
at the head of the Government would only hear of
Peace on such terms, he should think it his duty to
interfere, and bring the question before Parliament.
—lf he could for a moment believe that his Royal
Highness the Prince Regent's Ministers had made
themselves parties to papers he had, seen, purporting
to be a disposition on the part of the Government to
overturn the present Government in France, in fa-
vour of a former Monarchy, he should undoubtedly
make an application to Parliament, because he was
convinced there was not a single Frenchman in )
France that would not spill the last drop of blood in
battle against such a cause; nor were there many
Englishmen who would spend a farthing in support
of it. Until such a design was made manifest, he
should content himself with disbelieving it. His
Lordship then adverted to a misrepresentation which
had gone forth on a former occasion, respecting his
opinion of Peace, unconnected with the independence
and future happiness of the Spaniards. He had never
uttered any sentiment of that description. He con-
ceived the independence of that country highly ne-
cessary. No man, he thought, would acknowledge
that motives of generosity and policy should be re-
linquished with respect to Spain. He conceived that
the honour and faith of Great Britain were pledged
to promote the independence of Spain, and when he
said that, he alluded to the Government under King
Ferdinand the Seventh and the Cortes. He was
willing to obtain it by negociation rather than war.
Even if it was to be obtained by sacrifices, negocia-
tion would produce. less than the sacrifices by war.'
—Still, under all the circumstances, he could never
consent to abandon the independence of that country.
The Noble Lord concluded by presenting the follosy.i,
ing Petitions, signed by persons styling themselves)
friends of christianity and humanity :—One from,
Melbourn (Derby), a second from Bakewell.(Der-1
by), a third from the same place, a fourth from
Loughborough, a fifth from Ilchester, a sixth from
Derby, seventh Castle Donnington, and three others
from the same vicinity. They were severally laid
on the table.

Lord HOLLAND then presented nine other Peti-
tions of the same descriptiun from the town and
neighbourhood of Nottingham. They wete received
as the Petitions of persons signing them, and laid on
the table.

Marquis WELLESLEY rose to move for papers
connected with this important question, and having
adverted to a statement mule on a former dad,
namely, that the subject would be diFew.sed by a
simultaneous proceeding in that House, expressed
his surprise that a proposition had been since made
to go into the question, without any preliminary
communication respecting the object, and views of
those who had projected this great and importaut
question. His Lordship conceived that previous dis-
cuAion was absolutely necessary, in order to do their
duty, and intimated that he shuuld, in movirug far

4 . • • . , - -
-la •idltritOrir
.'",ligde' . . •
NCB—HALPPBANY.
• - _ _ .. _ ... ......
PROCEEDINGS.
tS, APRIL a.
a Petition from Warringtotsi
:barter.
w Barnetaple, Devon, *Ain't
d &inn eoctain Ship-builder'
' an open trade to India.
Woes.
kcoad reading of ,I II II for
.al offence to steal front shops
A debate of cnnaiderable
iott.Atith, Getesivras.c, ansi
and I.6rd. titomourn and
livispn that took places wham
st It •
)R PEACE. i r
to present s-veral Paiii '
lis Lordsh;p s lid, it was
f, a Peer to present any
as, and it might be suffi.
!et of the petition, but its '
to himself to state a few
Petitions bad been in his
re from persons of re.
'aged in trade, who had '
m opportudity to present
ility of putting an end to T
ipectlui terms the eolith .
hope that every attempt
ernment • to make peace
rable grounds. In case .
any thing derogatory to
the Country, they were
:e in support of the na.
.ord observed, that when
hands, lie endeavoured
tom presenting them to
re were some doubts on
any Petitions to Parliaa
it was not reasonable to
Petition of the Sort would
iers had, however, since
rusting, the Petitions to
e would present them..
m the presentation of the
ern any principle against
:ontrary, he conceived if
d on a fair and honour-
the duty of every Mem.
tip said, he understood
n raised by the brilliant.
that the Prince Regent's
eps, in conjunction with
Legociation for Peace.—. ,
hat such intentions and
the Government under
id he rise to give notice '
ct of the Petitions. He
his sincere hope that a ,
the intention of Govern-
ly all they had acquired
before they listened to
iuld believe that persons
!nt would only hear of
ould think it his duty to
!stion before Parliament.
believe that his Royal
's Ministers had made
he had seen, purporting
rt of the Government to
Intent in France, in fa-
he
should undoubtedly
amens, because he was
t single Frenchman in
the last drop of blood in . 1'
nor were there many ,
id a farthing in support
was made manifest, he
:h disbelieving it. His ;
misrepresentation which
occasion, respecting his
4:1 with the independence • •
ipaniards. He had never t
t description. He con- t i
that country highly ne. f.
ht, wculd acknowledge
and policy should be re. I
)ain. He conceived that .
it Britain were pledged i. 1
of Spain, and when he 1
3overnment under King 1 '
I the Cortes. He was , .
ciation rather than war. , •
I by sacrifices, negocia.' .
in the sacrifices by war. r
tstances, he could never
>endence of that country.
by presenting the follow.
rsons styling themselves i
humanity :—One from('
ad from Bakewell.(Der-
le place, a fourth from ' 1
I Ilchester, a sixth from
lington, and three others •"
ley were severally laid .'
,sented nine other Pea- , ,
fun from the town and
m. They were received
ning, them, and laid on
IL% RTER.
rose to move for papers
nt question, and having
::de on a former dad,
ould be discussed by a '
that House, expressed
a had been since made 41
ithout any preliminary i,
he object, and views of
its great and importaut f
ceived that pervious dis-
iary, in order to do their ; •
should, in movi:ug far V, ',
II 1
t i?
i .
• :
11
- •

Mexquis concluded by moving,
summoned for Wednesday.
Lord LIVERPOOL agreed in the magnitude of
the question, and observed, that on no question had
he given-more time and attention, and- be was pee.
pared to defend the opinions connected in the Reso-
lutions moved in another part of the Legislature.
His Lordship had no objection to the introduction
of the subject at the time stated by the Noble
Marquis.
The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE stated,
that the question had been brought forward consistent
with the form of proceedings of equal consequence
to the Country.
Their Lordships were ordered to be summoned
for Wednesday.

. The Noble
the Lords be

EAST INDIA EHIPPING.
The Marquis WELLESLEY then presented a Pe-
tition from the Merchants and Owners of India built
ships, praying to be permitted to enjoy the same
rights and privileges as the owners of British ships.
His Lordship stated the able assistance afforded the
Government during the conquests in Egypt, the In-
dian seas, Scc. by ships of the above descrtption, and
contended that it would be sound policy to grant the
prayer of their Petition.
Lord GRENVILLE agreed in the advantages
the House would derive by a statement of the gene.
nl outline of the plan of the East India Question,
previous to the discussion. Lord Grenville also
supported the claims of the Petitioners in the last
• instance.

Lord WELLESLEY presented other Petitions
from persons employed in the service of the East In-
dia Company in favour of the trade of the Port of
London.—The Petitions were laid on the table.

EXCII ANC'S OP PRIPONPILS.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN said, he had to
address their Lordships on a subject of great im-
poi t ince to the Public. He had been applied to by
• persons in sea port towns, having friends and relations
prisoners of war in France, to make inquiry whether
the determination apparently in the Governments of
this Country and France to prolong the severe suffer-
ings of prisoners of war had been occasioned by any
impracticable obstacle in the way of exchange of pri-
soners ? It had been rumonitcl that the Prince Re-
gent's Government had received a communication
from France on that subject, and his Lordship rose
to be satisfied as to the correctness of the assertion.
His. Lordship then asked, whether any proposition
had been made by France to this Country, and whe-
ther the proposition (if any) was or was not ad-
missible ? He conceived it was necessary that the
Noble Earl, whom he saw in his place, should an-
swer, and state what the particular terms of the com-
munication were.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, the exchange
of prisoners was an object of humanity, in which the
subjects of England were deeply interested, and every
feeling mind would be anxious to attain it. Endea-
vours had been made on former occasions to bring
about an event so desirable, but unfdrtunately all
efforts for some years to obtain it had been ineffec-
tual. On the last occasion when an attempt was
made, a total failure ensued. It would be in the re-
collection of the House, that the silence of Parlia-

went, and all those who had expressed doubts, was a
fair inference that the conduct of Government was

just and satisfactory. His Lordship was assured,
when the nature and principles of the concessions
made by his Majesty's Government were known,
and also the nature of the concessions resisted. that
their Lordships would say, the Government of this
Country went as far as it could go to obtain the ob-
ject. His Lordship had no difficulty in stating, that
no distinct authorised communication had been re-
cently made by the French Government on the sub-
ject of an exchange of prisoners, nor had he.the least
difficulty to admit that an intimation had been made
of a disposition to renew the former negociation on
that subject. In answer to that intimation an answer
was returned, that his Majesty's Government were
ready to renew the negociation on the view before
taken. His Lordship was sorry to say, that the pro-
positions were so unreasonable that they could not be
entertained. The Noble Marquis had done him no
more than justice in saying he had no wish to increase
the miseries of war. They were disposed to negociate
if the enemy were, but they did certainly conceive,
on a subject of this nature, that negociation should
stand on some principle that may not be disadvanta-
geous to the Country and British prisoners in future.
They would always be ready to negotiate on just and
,equitable rrinciples.
Lord GRENVILLE concurred with the Noble
Earl in the sentiment, namely, that Government were
)tiot to give way to sentiments of humanity in order
Ito give the enemy unreasonable advantages, and to
eitablish a principle which might be in future urged
:against us. -His Lordship at the same time had to
:lament, that the Noble Earl was not at liberty to
state the communication, and publish to the world
what were the sole grounds on which the discussion
was turned and broken off. He conceived that this
was not only a subject which concerned the most es-
sential interests of the country, but that it ought to
be publicly known, and the grounds on which we
stand promulgated to the world. The British long
imprisoned in France had been told that their long
imprisonment was owing to the obstinacy and apa-
thy of the Government of the country. If that was the
endeavour of the enemy, no wonder if the minds of
men were worked on, and it therefore became the
duty of Parliament to prove to the world that not
only last year, but down to the present moment, a
disposition had been shewn on the part of Govern-
ment to lessen the miseries of men, and put an end
to a state of things shameful to humanity. His Lord-
ship had thought that the Noble Earl had intended
to give an explicit answer to his Noble Friend's pro-
position. If the Noble Earl conceived it improper to
give it, he hoped an authentic statement would be
given to the world of what had been dune.
Lord LIVERPOOL said, he was bound to ob-
ject to a public statement, because it was not an au-
thorised communication, but a private intimation to
renew the negotiation, and that was made with the
understanding that, if it was not agreed to, it should
be kept secret. As it was not acted on, Ministers
did not think they were bound to publish it, well
knowing that premature publication might defeat the
object they had in view. In the particular shape this t
proceeding took, and under all the circumstances,

he had stated. It hid %.
not be again entertained.
Lord GREY said, ir
the meaning of the
tion had been made

*former principle,
to reject, and in such rejection, they had declared
their intention to enter into a negotiation on fair and
equitable principles.
Lord LIVERPOOL said, he was willing to give
any exphnatioa necessary. It was the same proposi-
tion which had been rejected on a former occasion,
and his Majesty's Government were determined to
stand on none but principles consistent with justice,
and the honour of the country. On such terms they
would be ready, on every occasion, to renew the ne-
gociation.
Lord GREY—a His Majesty's Government re-
fused to negotiate on any other terms than those they
had formerly proposed; but no new proposition was
made i"

Lord LIVERPOOL repeated, that the terms pro-
posed by the French Government, were the terms re-
jected by his Majesty's Government on a former oc-
casion, and that the British Government were ready
to negotiate on fair principles.
Lord HOLLAND observed, that both parties
were extremely wrong.—Adjourned.

or unless be_, thong
'owe of these chimerical hopes
' formerly been muerte/led by
thought, for example, that ,
countenance or were consenting
ugna.
Proclamation published under the '
titre of Louis XVIII. then he should think it neces.
'stuT to bring forward a motion, not directly for
.peace, but for an Address to remove those Ministers
who :hewed no disposition to procure for the country
a reasonable peace. Until, however, he should have,
reason to suppose his Majesty's Ministers were drug
inclined to peace on fair and reasonable terms, hb
Should defer his motion indefinitely. Trusting always
that Ministers had this object in view, he should be
glad that the Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh) would
gave a more distinct answer respecting the concur.
rence of Ministers to that Proclamation of Louis the
XVIIIth ; for although be bad said that Ministers
knew nothing of it, yet he was informed that those
under them had afforded those facilities which Go.
trernment could do to get it into circulation on the
.Continent. If the Noble Lord chose to remain si-
lent, his silence would be considered ominous ; but if
he were to disclaim it distinctly, that would indeed
be highly satisfactory.
Lord CASTLEI4.4GH allowed that the Hon..
Member had commented in a constitutional manner
on those Petitions ; ands that he was right in saying
that the Executive Government should be left unfet-
tered upon that subject. Whenever he should think
proper to bring forward his motions, then it would
be his duty to state his sentiments. At present he
had only to reply to the last question of the Hon.
Gentleman, as to the participation of Government in
that Proclamation. With respect to the policy of 1
that measure, his Majesty's Government were not at
all committed, as they were no parties to it. They
did not suppose, however, that the circumstance of
an asylum being granted in this country to the un-,
fortunate Royal Family of France should at all fetter
them, so as to prevent their exercising their own
1 judgment with respect to what was proper for them
to do for their own interests and those who had been
their former subjects. If, from having a residence
in this country, they were to be considered fettered,
this would be changing their asylum into a prison,
which would be most disgraceful and discreditable to
this country. As to the policy of the measure, he
' should pronounce no opinion at all about it, but
merely say, that neither he nor the Government were
in any degree parties to it. It was an act of State
belonging to the parties who issued the Proclama-
tion, and not to his Majesty's Government.
Mr. STEPHEN said, that he had not understood
the Noble Lord (Lord Leveson Gower) in the man-
ner that he had been understood by the Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Whitbread), as supposing that this was
the.most favourable period for entering into a nego-
ciation. As to this proclamation of the rightful So-
vereign of France, it had his most cordial approba.:
Or. He thought that the mild, benignant, and pa.
ternil sentiments it cOntained were likely to produce
the best effects. lf it produced the effect of shaking
the established government of France to its downfall,
he thought that it would bring about the only mode
of a safe and honourable peace for Europe.
Lord LEVESON GOWER said, that he was
not aware that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whit-
bread) had at all misrepresented any thing that he
had said. He certainly had not said that this was
the most favourable period for negotiation, neither
had he heard the Hon. Gentleman represent him as
having so stated. •
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that he was not sorry
that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Stephen)
had misunderstood him ; for other Wise he could not
have avoided agreeing with him, and the House
would have lost his observations. He certainly had
not stated either for himself or the Noble Lord, that
this was the most favourable period for negotiation.
The Petition was then received. and ordered to lie
on the table.

Mr. WHITBREAD also presented petitions from
Melburn, Greenock, Matlock, and a variety of other
places, to the same effect. Those petitions having
also been ordered, to lie upon the table, be expressed
his hope, thal whenever any considerable number of
subjects felt any pressure from the war or other grie-
vances, they would express their feelings to the House
as those Petitioners had done, in a temperate and be-
coming manner. Those who endured such sufferings
(which, as the Noble Lord had said, the Members of
that House were strangers to), could do nothing bet-
ter than temperately and decorously state their case
by petition to that House. He trusted the House
would always be most willing to procure for them
whatever relief was in their power.

mu In aiirpstr
ird't=ore rejected; and aion • • which misbtffer,
:ained. r pow entertained some ol
id, if he understoodthe Noble gait an • views which had .forme
explanation was this, a pmpos‘ other Ministers. If he thou
c for an exchange of prisoners ea Ministers gave any countenal
which Government
_were bound to the
_late. Proclamation Pub