Star.
London, England, 1801-02-20 00:00:00

HOT/SE OF 00/AMONS.

A mann frost the Mamma Debt Rotlabor Omar, pre'tet-
al an 4renent or the pregrefe look /suit retleeDion A tit dcbt
en t•r• tP et Jas. t Sot.
A tow Wrk vrioseowel ter the Demob of la time
Covet, at Wilk, M Me nee of the 11' Mary
tortes. who bee astopeol the Clam
A new Wit wee emeriti foe the LINO of Towers, lo ebs
Coons, of Dews. to the awes or Loot Mak sew tam
erre"! tato Ogee of Wafter et WOW.

Mr. altAncP, brought up the Report of the
Committee on hi; Nfajelly's Meg:age, recommend-
ing it to the Hook to fettle an Annuity of One
Thouftnd Pounds on Captain Sir Sidney Smith
during the time of his natural life.
Mr. loxes, on the motion for the fecond read-
ing of the Report, rofe to make a few oblervations
on the propofed Petition to this brave officer. He
hoped the i look would be fufficiently convinced
that, when a proposition tor rewarding the gallant
defender of Acre was made, he would be one of
the Lilt to :hew any defire of interrupting, the ge-
neral unanimity on this fubjeft So far, indeed,
was he frcm within to oppofe the propofition,
that he could nut help teltifying has furpriie that
the, reward had not long Since been conferred ;
and the adage of ~ Beto:r late than n:ver" ap-
;seared peculiarly applicable on the prefent neca-
tion. He thought, however, that the turn of one
thoufand pounds a year was far from being a fait-
able compenfation to the gallant individual who
had hemmed the dean:llion of the Oonman Em•
pire, and retarded the attack which was meditated,
againfi our poffeffions in India. He trotted that
he fhould have influence enough to obtain for him
another pention from the Balt India Company,
when he fhould I.ing forward his propofed Motion
for that purpofe.
The Report was then read a fecond time,agreed
to newthw everadiante, .nd a Bill in terms of it or-
dered to be prepared by Mr. Role and Mr. Long,
and brought into the Houk.
Mr. Basco it next brought up the Report of the
Committee of Ways and Means, which was read:
a hell time ; and on the Motion, That it be read
a fecond time,
Mr. M. A. Tavcon rofe to callthe attention of
the Hottfe for a few moments to the hoafted prof-
perity of the country, and he trilled that in thefe '
few moments he fhould prove that there declama-
tions
on our fancied wealth were not agreeable to
our real fituation. He would have offered him-
fell to the attention of the Committee IA night,
hut becaufe it was unufual in the firfl iuftancc to
enter into any length of oppofition to the lupplies
voted, he had refirved what he had to advance
till the Refolutions were reported. Much had
been fold of the extent of our refources and our
ability to provide for the extraordinary expen-
diture to which, foom our fituation, we were
fubjeeted, but an examination of the actual (late
of the nation did not warrant the troth or fair-
nefs of fuch unqualified affections of profperity.
It was only neceffary for the Houk to di-eCt
their attention to the (late of the great manufac.
curing towns throughout the kingdom, to the de-j
cay of their trade and to the enormous int reale of
poor's rates, to b;convinced that nulefs (borne relief
IS givcn,the people will pofitively be unable to bear
the heavy burdens by which they were depreffed.
This seas no unfupported affertion of-his own, but
a flatement founded on an induftion of fags
drawn from the fituation of a populous diftriEt in
the Weft Riding of Yorklhire; In confidering the
(late of the manufacturing towns over all that ex-
Leili;vc part of the country, in turning his atten-
tion to that kvere dittrefs which the Peopk were
enduring, it was impogible for him to believe in
the ti nth of the glowing defcription. of national
profperity, in which the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman (Mr. Pitt), had 101 l night indulged. He
W 4% not to be convinced hr the molt planfible de-
clamation, or the moll imputing eloquence, and
no eloquence cnti'd be more fplendid than that
which the Right Honourable Gentleman difplayed
in oppofition to clear, undeniable fads. In con-
fequence of theft fufferinffs, meetings had been
held in various parts for the purpofe of laying a
view of their grievances at the foot of the Throne.
Nothing could be more centlitutional than this
mode of proceeding, and as fuch it had met with
his warns approbauun ; but at a time when near-
ly thirty millions were voted, and when new taxes
to a vaft amount were to be inspored, the )(epee-
fentatives of the People ought to know what is
their ability to bear Inch additional burdens. At
a moment when they were caned upon to agree to
thee votes from defcriptions of the fiourithing
*its of the Country, they ought to be infiirtned
by the evidence of fa is what is the flaw of the
country. The Honourable Member accordingly
ceded to read a number of•extrads from ea.
rings papers he held in his hand, and (hewed that
.11roc
both in the fnialicr and more extenfive parithies,
in the part oi•the country which he had mentioned,
'the poor rates had, from the year t7y 1 to the
year slop, Menaced in a me* eseracedinary and
alarns'aristi:di,egree. In many inflames they-bad
bees tri quadrupled, and in others hiertafed 1
it in a • greater proportion within the period (pi-
ailed. and this enormourinereafe of burdens he

, Sir joitsi PARKILL did not rife to (late any ge-
neral objeCli ms to the Refclutions fiihnlitted to
the Houfe., hut merely to make a fsw obfervations
or. the Eflatnates as they sv.:se conneeled will the
eflablifinnent of Ireland. The calculations ap-
peared to him, as I.r ;Is C•cy rcfpeeed Et: land,
to be perfpicuous and finkflisftory, hut that part of
the (tato/lent which regards the (hare v:hi-h Ire-
land mus to bear in the general fy(tem of fupply
and esp t.diture, teemed not I.) be explained with
futlicieut degree of minutetscfs. ' ellimating
the!urns for MlfeellaneoLs Services, it was net
fullieichtly pointed our whether Ireland, under
r connettlion with Great Britain, was to pay
mere or leis than The had defrayed while in a re.
parate hate ? As this p trt of the fubj !ft would
afterwards come to be considered when the par-
ticular mums were voted, he flinuld rake an oppor-
tunity of explaining his views at a greater length
than he pofiibly had it in his power to do on the
pret;nit occaCon. He begged leave, however, at
this time, to advert to what he conceived a very
great deficiency in di.- Eflimate now before the
)-lonfe. He felt it his duty to take notice of this
deficiency, though it would have the tendency of
relievinft Ireiand from her ;;,,it- Freportion of the
gener.eSupply, beeaufe he confident! !timid( fit-
ting in that Houfe not to watch over feparate in-
terells, not to provide for partial advantage,_ but
to be a faithful guardian of the interells of the
United Empire. In the eftimate of the there which
Ireland was to 'bear in the joint expence, the fom
neceffary as her proportion, was Rated at 4 mil-
lions one hundred and eighty-fix thoufand pounds,
which would not be fufficient for the eftablifh-
ment of Ireland, and would confequently have the
deficiency to be made up by a heavy charge on.
England. The feparate eflabliflurent of Ireland
had UR year amounted to 5 millions fix hundred
thoufand pounds, and, according to the ellimates
now produced, a deficiency of I million three hint.
Bred and twenty thoufand pounds would remain,
for which no provifiess was made by the Refolu-
tions as at prefent propofed. This was a fiebjed
of vain importance to be attended to, and he had
conceived it his ditty to bring it under the view
of the Houf:. He begged leave farther to call
the attention of the Hottfe to another circumftance
which feemed not to have been attended to on the
prefent occafion. It had been the cnftom in the
Iriffi Parliament for a century pall, previous to
the voting of the Supplies, to have accounts of all
the different parts of the public expenditure pre-
rented, and caamincd by a Committee fpecially
defigned for that purpofe. Theft accounts were
drawn up in the cleaieft and mo.• correa terms,
and were conitantly in a Rate of preparation at the
time the Committee began their examination.
The utility of this plan was extremely perceptible,
in giving to every Member of the Houk the molt
fatisfadory vi:w of every different application ofthc
public money, the accounts, ccmprizing under fii
rand divifions, whatever was conned with the
national economy and finance. He concluded
by fithmitting to the Honk, whether a pradice
attended with Inch beneficial effefts, tending' fc
eminently to explain and to fimplify the difpateli
of public bulinefs,onght to be renounced, or wife:
titer, in forming the Irilh Eftimates on the prefent
occalion, they might not have been employed with
high advantage. They would, in a thou period,
render ckar what was now peculiar in the Trills
eltabliffiment, and enable the Members at large to
enter; without difficulty, into the eflimates which
might hereafter be produced.
Mr. PITT began by remarking there was a tri-
vial omiflion in the ffatement of the Hon. Baronet,
whole talents he highly refpe.fted, and whole ex-
perience and information relative to Iriland. he
Ihould be always happy to fee exercifed for the be•
nefit of the Houfe. The error committed by the
Hon. Baronet was, he laid, in confidcring the
proportion of two fixteenths, amounting to
4,1a4,0001. as the whole expence to be paid by
Ireland, as the interelt of her debt, her Sinking
Fund, and a (inn which had been advanced by this
country to pay off hi& Treafury Bills, were ex:
prefsly excluded, and were (till to be kparately
provided for by that country. It was thus that
Ireland was under the neceffity of borrowing
2,500,0001. which mull be provided for by means
of her feparate refources, without bearing any re-
lation en 6tr (hare of the whole expence of the United
Kingdom. The expence of Ireland would be found
to be 4.700.0001. including that fitare and dot dif-
ferunce between the film and 5,5c0,c001. would
be the faro gained by that country in confequence
of the Union, which, though not to the extent
Bated by the Honourabk Braonct, he yet deferred
the higheil commendation Mr his ciforts to dii-
corer what be conceived to be an error, though
operating igainft his own country, and which were
an eminent proof of his candid and du-manned
mind. With refrit to the obferration made by

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the Honourable llaronct relative to the charges]
for 11..1 ind not being particiilarly fpecified, he
obferved, that the Effinuttes for the Army, Navy,
aria ....Rinance, had been made for the whole
United Kingdom, it being ncedlels to-make fepa.
rate Eftimates, as Ireland was of pay a certain pro-
portion of the whole expcnce, and with refpef to
that head of Supply alluded to by the Hon. Baro-
net, entitled " Mrkellancons," it had been um-
foi mly the cuflom to vote a grofs tarn under that
head, of which the particulars were afterwards
more minutely Elated. He now c, ifhed to Illy a
few words, in anfwer to what had fallen from an
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. M. A. Taylor). He could
not help protefting, in the ltrongelt terms, ;Taira
bringing forward flatcmcnts which could only
tend to deprefs the thength of the country and
caufe an unmanly defpondency. The Hon. Gen-
tleman had come down to the Houle with certain
papers in his pocket, how long they had lain there
nobody knew, which he had taken fome trouble to
read to the Houfe, and of which the fum total was,
that the Poor's Rate had increafed in certain parts
of the country. This was the fum and fubtlauce,
and the v•Ily fad they contained, which, after all,
was perfeCily Well known to every one, and could
not be denial. There was no doubt the preffiire
was great upon all ranks—he lamented and de-
plored it—but was it to be contended that in a
great flruggle, in a momentous conteil, on the
dim of witch the exi Renee of rich and poor equally
depended, the rights and interefts of all were to be
facrificed, became there happened to be an increafe
of the Poor's Rate in Ibme particular diftrid ? He
acliii;tted the flatement of the Hon. Gentleman,
that the Poor's Rate had materially increafed fmcc
tL crnimencement of the war, and lamented as
much as any one ; but was it a fair reafon for en-
deavouring to deprefsthe fpiritofthe country,which
had already Rood a trial molt revere, and was
yet perfectly capable of meeting one Rill more fe-
vere ? Peace, it was contended, was the only re-
medy r—he wilhed as fincerely and as ardently as
any man to fee the re etlablifhment of Peace,
when it could be carried into effeCt confiftent with
the honour and interefts of the country. Admit-.
ing the, general diftrefs, was it proper, was it po-
litic to proclaim our diftrefs to our enemies, or to
give them information of the Rate of the country,
which could only terve to augment its calamities
and add to its misfortunes ! In the next place,
how did the affertion of the Hon. Gentleman, that
the war was the cattle of the increafed poor's rate,
of the ruined trade, and decayed manufaftures,
which he &pitted in forcible language, agree with
thole aliertions which had frequently come from
the other fide of the Houfe, that the commerce of
the Country, which had vifibly and manifally in-
creafed during the war, was wholly artificial, and
would vanifh immediatclyupon the return ape= ?
bow were the two contradidory affertions to be re-
conciled ? If the commerce of the country, flourifh-
ing as it undoubtedly was, and increafed ss it un-
doubtedly had been; during the war, was wholly
artificial, and depended upon the continuance of the
war, then how coda the war be the means of ruin-
ing merchants, and taking away the employment
of-manufadurers ? And if it was thus artificial and
dependent upon war, why then the fo much wifh-
ed for peace mull be, according to their own doc-
trine, the ruin, inftead of the fafvation of the coun-
try. If, on the other hand, the war had actually
injured the commerce of the country, and peace
was ncceffary to preferve it, why then what be-
came of the affertions of Gentlemen—that our com-
merce was wholly artificial—that by war ithad ri fen,
and by peace it mull fall ? Thofe Gentlemen were
reduced to this.dilemma, they had made two affer-
tions cuntradidory to,each other, and one mutt be
renounced : they mutt either take the one, that the
increafed commerce of the country was entirely to
be afcribed to the war, and then they mull give
up all their affertions of the ruined Rate of the
country, and admit peace not to be defirable—or
they ;44 deny the Rubborn fad, that the comma cc
of the country had increafed during the war, and
then they may declaim upon the ruin of the coun-
try, and the neceffiy of peace ; but all the ingenui-
ty of thrill: Gentlemen cannot make war produce
two different cffeets at the fame time—at once to in-
creak and to ruin the commerce of the country.
When Gentlemen talked of war in fuch general
terms, and of the neceffity of peace, he withed they
would be fo good as to confine thenifelves to the
war with France, to which alone their affertions
ought to refer, and not confound it with a war un-
dertaken for the defence of our maritime rights
and of our naval fuperiority, undertaken for the
defence of our honour, our independence, and
our exillence. Much fcepticifin had been dif-
played in the language of fii:ne Gentlemen upon
the Inhjed of maritime law, who had expretfed
themiclves, he would not fay with ignorance, but
with much diffidence—for they cutely mull allow
the necellity at lead of our war with Ruffin, and
the nccellity there is for its continuance, if we had
the 'cal} with to defend our rights, and maintain
our naval fuperiority ; at any rate, when Gentle-
men talked of war, they ought at leaft to diflin-
gel between the enemies with which the coua-
try was engaged in hcftility, as they mull be per-
feCtly aware a broad and marked line of diftindion
was to be drawn between our war with France,
and our haftility with other Powers. He had, he
raid, enlarged upon thmc topic:. much mote than
he intended, hut he thought it of material impor-
tance that the fithit of the country Mould not be
by atements calculated to excite de-
Ipondency, and that our enemie, Ihould not be'
led to imagine the country in -1 Rate of dillrefs
and overwhelmed by calamity, when its commerce
was increafing, its rcfources flourifhing, and its
fpirit yet unbroken.
Sir Joria PAIN LL and Mr. A. TA V 1.01( feve-
rally explained.
Lord CASTLI RUM,. obferved upon what had
fallen from his Right Honourable Friend (Sir
John Parnell), that the mod: of voting the Sup-
ply here was totally different to the method prac-
tiftd in Ireland, when his Honourable Friend with
much minify exercifed the office to whkh that de-
partment appertained. He admitted it had been
sue cuflom in Ireland for the Commit inners. of
I Accounts to fend in thole a-.count‘ in the

manna fiateel 'by his Honnumble Friend, ttit ob
fcrvcd it was found a had pradtice to vote money ;
after its applicatk,n; at any rate, not lo much to
he preferred as the method of votin7 by cllimate,
which was at length adopted, when the former
fell into difitfe. The accounts were hosecver pre-
pared, and might be inipeaed at his kilnre by ale
1-lon. Bamaet. He could not admit the anima
expellees of Ireland to be fairly Rated by the Han.
Baronet when he gave the amount of Jail year',
expence as a criterion, bccatile the expenditure of
lall year seas fweiled by temporary conics, part;-
calarly the compenlation of Boroughs, all of which
were to be deduaed before the net expenditure of
Ireland could be afeertainc;), which would then be
found to be 4,900,c001.
Mr. Hoauousc ipoke at confiderable
and vindicated his Honourable Friend, (Mr.
Taylor) from the mifreprefentations of the Chan•
edicr of the
,Exchequer. He conceived that
the criterion of the profperity of the country
ctiabliflu:d by his Honourable Friend was per-
l'ealy fair, since it prefented to view a fcries of
ycars in the courfe of the war, in every one al
which the diarels of the people bad increafed.
Nor could lie imagine that the argument deduced
from it was liable to the charge of contradiaion,
;ince though in colonial articles and others, the
demand for which is increafed by war, the great
• bulk of the manufiteiures of the country mull of
nectility he diminifhed. He inflamed in illuflra-
tion of his pofition, the flare of all the North of
England, where at this moment the manufac-
turers are maintaining their workmen at a confi-
del ;ible lot's. This he maintained was more par-
ticularly applicable with regard to the woollen
trade, that liaple manufatturc of our country.
He was as unwilling as any Member in the Houfe
to encourage defpondency, but he thought it fair
that the people ought to know the truth, and be
afccrtained of their real condition. If nothing but
declamations on our profperity were to be allowed,
if we were never to be permitted to look but at
the fair fide of the picture, it would be expedient
to shut the walfs of that leac, and to put an end
to all difeuffion. He was not difpofed to accede
to the flattering defcription which had been drawn
of our financial refources. It was at a time that
the Funds were very low, that the Right Honour.
able Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) was compelled to re-
turn to the ancient mode of raifmg Supplies. What
was this but a confeffion the that new fchcme was
no longer efficient to its intended purpofes, and
that under the old fcheme the Funds would fink
to their former level ?

Toe Hon. Mem bet proceeded to comment at
fame lergth on feveral of the taxes propofed. The
tax on Tea he thought very impolitic, as having a
tendency to promote fmuggling, to which he ap-
prehended capital would again be introduced in
confcquence of the repeated taxes to which this
article had been fubjeeted. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had boafled that of the propofed taxes
none would fall heavy on the poorer orders. This,
however, could not apply to the articles of print-
ed cottons, much ufed by the lower ranks, on
whom it would fall with much weight. The tax
on Timber he thought particularly injurious, as
tending materially to affea induary in an article
of molt extenfive utility. He reprobated the grow-
ing ptaetice of laying public accounts and papers
on the table at fuch a ikon notice as had been par-
ticularly obfervable in the cafe of the papers pre-
paratory to the budget. He could not allow that
it was confiltent with the duty of the Houfe to take
calculations of the probable produce of taxes on
the mere affdrtions of Minifters without previous
examination.

Mr. JOLLITFE °Netted to Tome of the taxes, and
hoped the new Mnufters would be more ceconomi-
cal than the old.

On reading of the firft fteolution
Mr. PITT obferved there was a miftake in it re-
lative to the terms of the Loan, which were .251.
Conic& and 501. rss. Reduced, but in the Refo-
lution of the latter, was written sot. los. inftead
of gel. 15s. As it had paffed the Committee in
that form, he law no other remedy for the miftake
than to reject the Bill brought in purfuance of it,
and for the Committee to ht again on Monday, to
correct the error.

Mi. M. A.'TAYLOR took the opportunity of ob-
ferving, that he thought it the right and privi-
lege of every Member of the Houfe of Commons
to (tate whatever farts he knew relative to the hate
of the country ; and when the Right Honourable
Gentleman was about to add 3o millions to the
burdens of the country, he thought himfclf per.
fzetly juilified in endeavouring to Ihew, from the
increafing Poor's Rate, that the people were the
lets able to bear thole accumulated burdens.

The Refolotions were then feverally read, and
agreed to, and tills ordered in purfuant thereto.
Mr. PITT expreired a with that the Honourable
Gentleman opputite to him, whofe motion flood
for to-morrow, u OWL' confider the propriety, un-
der the prefent circumßauccs, of poßponing it to
a fubfequent day.
Mr. Mc HOLLS fait!, be did not conceive the ab-
fence of particular Gentlemen any reafon to in-
duce him to defer his motion; but if it was any
perfonal accommodation to the Right Honourable
Gentleman, he had no objeftion to accede to his

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