Star.
London, England, 1806-05-09 00:00:00

INDI• AFFAIRS.

Mr. PAULL rote, purfuant to notice, and moved
for an account of various Taxes impofed on Imports
and the roft Office by the Marquis of Wellefley for
imrtoper purpofes, as an additional evidence of the
roosters contained in his charge.
Mr. BANKES obferved, that there would be no
end to this bufinefs if it was to go on in thi manner.'
In the Papers already printed it appeared that the
affair was of a very complex nature, and it was a
matter of importance to confider to what tribunal it
ought to be referred. It ought not to be referred to
a tribunal where, from the delay, the delinquent
might elespipunifisment, and the innccent man be
fribjelled to an intolerable 'silence. The remedy was
obvious. This Houfe had. 'in the 24th and 26th of
the King, formed regulations for the trial of offences
committed in India. He wifhed that the mode re-
commended here filoulil be adopted. The judicature
confiffed of Members of this Houfe under the fanc-
lion of the King's Bench. It had power to fit from
day to day, have one of the judges prefent, and to
'receive evidence of every proper defeription. This
mode afforded facilities which could be sound in no
other. Be would prefs nothing at prefent; but. in
cafe this mode was not adopted by the Hon. Gentle-
man, be would 'al.. the fenfe of the Houle upon it at
an early day. He willed well to the Marquis Wel-
lefley, lon he wifhed better to the caufe of juftice.
Mr. FOX agreed with the Hon. Gentleman who

7".

fpole left, as to the inconvenience attending the mode
of trial by impeathinent, in cafes where the alledged
delinquency arofe in India, and alto concurred with
him in opinion that the lower tribunal ought to be
employed, except the interede of jullice required that
the higher tribunal fhould be refoited to. The courfe
recommended by the Hon. Gentleman was peculiarly
applicable to India affairs. He agreed with him,
that the attention of this Houfe was not to be called
' away from its legiflotive funftions, in order to be em-
ployed in its judicial capacity, when it could be avoid-
ed. But at the fame time, the obje& of his riling at
prefent, was to fay a few words, left it fhould be
loppofed that lie could, in any degree, countenance
the opinion, that the judicial powers of the Houle
were lets important than the legiflative. So far was
this from being the cafe, that the judicial authority
of the Houle did more towards railing and fettling
the Conititution of the country, than its legiflative
power, and all its powers and
privileges put together.
It did not follow that this authority was to be Lert •
in daily ufe, or that, besaufe the weaptnt was ar"g•
and of infinite importance to the nation, it was /01)F
employed in every flight cafe. He could not fit ftilh,
however, without declaring, that above all things
elle, the judicial power of the Houk was not only an
theory, but in fad and reality, the corner-Done of
our conflitutional edifice. As to the difficulties at-
tending impeachments, undoubtedly great inconve-
niencies, on account of different circumnances which
had arifen in modern times, were to be combated in
the progrefs of this mode of trial; but all that could
be done in this Date of things, was to be the more
cautious how, and in what cafes, you exerted this
fort of authority. But the right was undoubted ; and,
though it ought to be exercifed rarely and cantioufly,
yet upon its vigorous and certain exertion, in proper
cafes, he was perfuaded the whole fafety of the Con-
Motion depended.
The Marquis of DOUGLAS could not agree with
the Honourable Gentleman oppofite, in the idea ex-
preffed by him, that it was unfit and incompetent for.
Parliament to entertain fuch charges as that to which
the Papers moved for referred. On the contrary, he
thought it molt fit and moll proper that fuch inqui-
ries fhould be entertained in that Houle. He agreed
entirely in what had fallen on this fubjeft from the
Right Honourable Secretary of State (Mr. Fox).—
The obfervations made by that diflinguifbed perfon
made it unneeeffary for him to fay any thing in fupport
of what he efteemed one of the diftinguithing marks
of that Houfe—one of the dearelt rights of Britons.
Sir A. WELLESLEY declared, that he had not
been aware of any idea fimilar to that thrown out by
the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Bankes) being in
contemplation. The earliefi period for taking into
confideration the condo& of the Noble Marquis
would by his friends be efteemed the belt. He admit-
ted that the charge againft his Noble Relative might
originally have proceeded before the Court of King's
Bench, but having come before the Houfe, he fub-
mitted, that it mull be got quit of by a fpecific vote,
eltablifhing either his guilt or innocence. He there.
fore thought there could be no objeftion to the Pa-
pers being produced.
Mr. FRANCIS agreed with the Right Honours.
ble Secretary, that impeachment was the Lrreateft
weapon which that Houfe poll-died, and therefore
that it fhould not be lightly ufed. The Ad alluded
to by the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Bankes) how-
ever, was not meant to apply to high crimes and
Inifdemeanors, but only to fmall offences. For a
breach of the law and mifapplication of•thoufands
of pounds of the public money, a Noble Lord was
now under trial before the High Court of Parlia-
ment. Much more mull fuch a meafure be compe.
tent where a breach of the law was alfo alledged,
coupled with a mifapplication of the public money,
to the extent of millions, even though in the latter
peculation was not alledged.
Mr. FOX Paid, he only meant that the portico's;
charge of extortion might be a fit (Shied for the ju-
rifdittion of the Com t appointed by the 24th of his
Majefty, without reference to the other charges.
Mr. ADDINGTON did not think the comparifon
made between the two Noble Lords jut. a The
ground on which that Houfe voted for the impeach-
ment of Lord Melville was, that he had violated an
Aft of Parliament ; I have not yet heard it imputed
to the Noble Marquis, even by the Hon. Gentleman
who brought forward the motion, nay he has even
difclaimed the idea, that he had applied it to his own
ufi
nge
would fn e ebea s
to
m oo
fo el l
otwh a
tthteh e belt
mode modefu o f
gge
ne
dp proceed-
ing e
thee
Honourable Gentleman behind me."
The Motion was then put and agreed to.
Mi. PAULI. then m9ved fora variety of other Pa-
pers, for the purple of hewing the Intereft paid on
the Loans by the Marquis Wellefley, the amounts of
Salaries, Houfe rents, &c. payable to Perfons hold-
ing Offices under him, &c. ; which, after Come ad-
ditional remarks from Mr. Bankes, in which he ex-
preffed his determination, on a future occalion, to
call the attention of the Houfe to the Date in which
the matter then flood, were agreed to.

ADDITIONAL FORCE REPEAL BILL.
As the CHAIRMAN was reading the propofed
alteration in the claufe refpedling the penisities not
levied,
Mr. YORKE wifhed the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman (Mr. Windham) would Rate, generally, what
was the nature of the alterations he intended to pro-
pole in that refpeet ?
Mr. WINDHAM raid, it was his intention to pro-
pole, that thole penalties which were due under the
aft lhould not be enforced, and that thole which had
been paid thnuld be refunded.

Mr YORKE wiffied elf() to know, why the army
of referee ad had been mentioned in the claufe
Mr. WINDHAM replied, that it was becaufe the
Additional Force Aft repealed the Army of Referve
Ad, and it might, therefore, be doubted whether the
repeal of that ad would not be a revival of the army
of referee.
Mr. BANKES at confiderable length oppored the
chute. He Paid, that although be was friendly to
the principle of the Bill, he would rather abandon it
altogether than agree to loch a claufe. As to the
Bill Well, he wilhed it to be repealed, becaufe he was
fore it bad completely failed; and although a fuffi.
dent time had been allowed for it to produce its ef- •
fee, it was found not to be the permanent and per-
ennial fource for recruiting our armies that it as
expefted to be; but as to the claufe, be thought no.
thing could be more union than to place ul on an
equality thofc who had diligently and fueccUully

I

exerted themfelees to tarty the law into execution,
and thole who from fupinenefs and negligence made
Do loch exertions. As to the repaying the penalties,
it was a principle he never before heard of. He well
remembered the Shop Tax, which was highly con-
demned by the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
Fox), as oppreffive and unjull ; but it never had en.
tered into the head of that Right Hon. Gentleman,
or of the numerous Petitioners for the repeal of the
Tax, that whatever had been railed under it, ought
to have been rellored. They were contented then
with the repeal of the Aft of which they complained.
There were only two Petitions on the table of the
Houle, for the repeal of this Aft: the one was from
Berldhire, and the other from the Parifh of Mary-
la-bonne, but the Petitioners had never thought of
alking for repayment of the (urns they had paid under
this Aft. If this were done, it would appear that
they were foolith people who complied with the
Aft, and the wife people were thole who paid no
attention to it; for thofe parilltes who railed men had
eeprived themfelves of fo much of their population
and their wealth to no purpofe. It would be an es.
eeeding bad precedent to make the breach of a law
more profitable than the obfervance of it. In tome
cafes, indeed, he knew it was impoffible to comply
with this law, for the apportionments were fo ftrange,
that fonts parilhes had only three-fourths of a man
to find, and he knew two parifhes that had but one
man to find between them, and the apportionment
was, that one was rated at nine twenty-fourths of this
man, and the other at fifteen twenty-fourths. In
latch cafes the parifhes had no option but to find the
money.
Mr. WINDHAM (aid, it was evident, that they
had no other choice but to Rand RM, or to move in
fome direction. If they were to move, he knew no-
thing elfe to be done, but either to keep what money
had been got, (but not to levy more), or elle to re-
fund what had been railed under the Mt. As to the

feeling that thole parities might entertain, who had
railed men, he could not entirely enter into the fed-
i-, Sag of thofe who required that, to confole them for
their (offerings, others fhould fuffer too:
" tom= mirais Cocks babuiffe dolor's."
If the queflion were about flopping an infections
ffiforder, a yellow fever, or a plague, and it &mild
be raid, that, as one half of the people had already
died of it, it was but fair and jail to let the other half
die too, he could by no means admit the force of that
argument. There was no reafon to fuppofe, that it
was from any reit:Ranee, or ill will, that the pariffies
did not find their quota, and if it was only becaufe it
was impoffible to get the men, it would be unfair that
they fhould be fined on account of this impoffibility.
If thofe parithes, who railed Come men, did it by a
breach of the law, there was no reafon that they
&wild be rewarded for that breach of the law, and
if the others did not raife them becaufe they would
hot break the law, it would be hard that they fhould
bepunifised for net breaking the law. Dr. Moore
bad told a Rory of a review at Berlin, where a foldier,
whore hat was blown off, was fcverely punifhed, and
although it was an unavoidable accident, yet fuch
accidents occurred feldomer after that time. It was
perhaps in the fame kind of way that tome Gentlemen
f?ppoted that whatever might be the caufe of the pa-
tithes not producing the men, it would be the beft
way to punifh them. The parilbes however had (hewn
the greateft readinefs to do all that was in their power
to do, which was the paying the money. As to the
men. it had generally been found impoffible to pro-
tare them according to the AR; and the counties of
Denbigh, Anglefea, and other places which had fur-
:tinted their quota, had only been enabled to do fo
by feeding to Manchefter and other manufaßuring
towns to get the men in the alma way.
Sir EDWARD HARTOPP oppofed the Clank,
and vindicated his condu& in the former debate.
from the obfervations which bad been made of it out
of doors.
Mr. GEORGE VANSITTART and Sir W.
MILNER afferted, that in the County of Berks, and
in the Parillt of Mary-la-bonne, it was not from any
tapiocas& or negligence in the willies that the men
were not railed.
Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE fuggefted the propriety
of making the re-payments to the psrifhes for gene-
ral purpoles, fuch as to the Overfeers of the Poor,
and not for the purpofe of being repaid to the indivi-
duals from whom it had been levied.
General TA RLETON denied, that the men railed
under the Bill were, for the greateft part, under-
fixed, or, from their age, unfit for fervice. He was
convinced, that if this Rau& was given up, and the
penalties enforced, the Bill would produce sOOO ad-
ditional men, before the Aft for repealing it could
be carried into a law.
Dr. LAWRENCE Paid that it was to him one of
the moll extraordinary affertions he had ever heard
in a legiflative affembly, that it would be right to
break a pofitive law. With refpeft to the qualifica-
tions of the men for military fervice, there were let-
ters on the table which (hewed there was a fecret un-
derftanding by which men to be railed under the
Aft under confederation, were allowed to be taken
two inches under the ual ftandard, and ten years
older than they would be admitted into other Mill.

Lary bodies.
Mr. ELLISTON always difapproved of the Ad-
ditional Force Bill, and therefore wifhed its repeal ; he
could not, however, agree to the claufe, and thought
that no Minifter Mould countenance the breach of
an Al of Parliament, while it was in force, although
afterwards it might be thought right to repeal it.
Mr. FULLER laid, that the Bill which was now
to be repealed, was a mere Bill of experiment, and
the experiment had completely failed. In his part of
the country it was abfolutely impoffible to raife the
men, and therefore he thought it would be very unjuß
that the parifhes fhottld be fubjeft to the penalties.
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it a dangerous
precedent to repay what had been already levied, as
upon the fame principle the fines for what the willies
mere deficient in the army of referve fhould alfo be
remitted. He could affure the Honourable Gentle.
man who (poke lag, that, although the parifhes in
the county of Suffex had only railed nine men under
the Aft, yet the rectuiting parties had, in a very
fhort time, railed 540 men, inhabitants of that diftrift,
and which he fuppoled the parifh officers might have
tiot hold of, if they had taken the proper meafures.
The quellion was then loudly called for, and the
Gallery was cleared. but no divifion took place. The
underftand, was agreed to, and the Report
irtlcreld to be received to-morrow. Adjourned.