Star.
London, England, 1807-04-10 00:00:00

his undoubted prerogative in difmiding one fet of
Minifters, that nobody elfe Ihould content to come
forward to the fervice 4 the State.

Mr. GRATTAN faid, the Bill aphich was the im
mediate milt of the dila:dal of his Makity's latel
Minillry, had his entire approbation, as he thought
thereby we fhonld have combined the phyfical with
the intelle&ual force of the empire. The queltion
now under the •conlideration of the Houle tn*.i.ht
very properly be divided into two heads ; firfl, the
conduit of'the late Miniflers in refpeit to the Catho-
lics; fecondly, their conduit relative to his Mgjefly.
The great object, as to the Catholics, was, that the
BO lately brought into the Houfe by the Noble Lord
near him, had been promifed to Ireland more than
thirteen years ago ; and the particular reafon given
was, that the Ira Officer in England might be on
a fimilar footing with the Englifh Officer, and it was
certainly no more than jtillice that it (tumid be fo
The Right Honourable Gentleman bad laid, that the
objection had been attended to and remedied by the
Mutiny Bill ; but that in fail was not the cafe, and
it was certainly very wrong to have left the hint
officer, in cafe of; his coming into this country, liable
to the penalty of five hundred pounds for attending his
regiment in defence of it ; and a flill further and,
more galling clilfatisfailion, that lie could not bring
any fait, nor be entitled to that proteition of the law,
of which every other *defcripti,o of perfons equally
enjoyed the benefit. The fecond objection was that
of the common men, who were rendered liable to the
greateft difficulties and the feverelt difabilities. They
were compelled' to go to church, and prohibited from
attending mafs, by which we made the Proteflant
religion the t -rmentor of the Roman Catholic fuldier,
and his own religion the engine of his punifhment.—
For his own part, he was free to own he did not
poffefs that agonVzing forefight which could fee the
ruin of the church in our having a Roman Catholic
Staff Officer ; and he feared, if we continued to pro-
ceed on that idea, we might avoid dangers that were
only imaginary, but fhould certainly incur thole that
were real. The Bill was part of the national defence,
and the quellion was, whether they thould continue
to impofe difabilities, which operated not merely on
the Roman Catholics, but greatly to the difadvantage
of the whole Empire ? The objections Rated by the
Right Honourable Gentleman were fironger as to the
principle of the Bill, than to the Bill Well. He
feemed to think that the principle of the Bill tended
to fubvert and overturn the efiablithed church. In
this he differed with him altogether, for he confidered
the principle of the Bill as calculated to loften and
mitigate the afperity of religious prejudices, to amal-
gamate and blend the jarring opinions of men, pro-
feffing different religious perfuafions, and to unite
them' all in one common bond of union, fo that they
Might aft together freely and heartily in the defence
of the whole empire? To effect this would, in his opi-
nion, fecure the ellablifhed Church on the molt
permanent foundation, by a union of all men of all
religious opinions, without which he feared the empire
could not be long preferved. The principle of the
Bill went to give the Catholics of Ireland a participa-
tion in the defence of the country, by enabling them
to enjoy commiffions in the army and navy, and to
thew them that they were in future to be placed on a
more liberal footing with regard to the law. The
Right Hon. Gentleman had argued, that it was not
in human nature for the Roman Catholics to be con
tented wilt what was granted them by the Bill ; but
the fag was, the Right Hon. Gentleman millook hu-
man nature, tubltituted for it a cafuittical argument,
and then debated human nature to make it fabler
vient to his own cafuiltry. The Right Hon. Gentle-
man had talked of the Roman Catholics wanting to
eftahlith high, rank in the orders of their religion,
and to have magnificent Bithops. How they were to
do this he could not tell, unlefs they were to get the
French to make Irith Bithops rich, who had already
made French Bithops poor. The Right Honourable
Gentleman and others had laid, that the Roman
Catholics in Ireland were diffatisfied. As to that,
he would not deny they might be fo at particular
periods of time. He had known them to be foinet.mes
fatisfied, and fometimes the contrary. They were'
fatisfied, he laid, when the Adminiftration was fuch
as purfued a fy Item of lenity and did not harrafs them
with difabilities, they were diffat bled when a contrary
( conduit was obferved towards them. In 1793, they
were highly fatisfied with what was done in their be-
half. He would not fay they were fo at another
period, when they had been perfecuted for no greater
offence than the great and mighty crime of prefenting
a Petition. , There was an inftance on record, where
two inen in the county of Wexford were, for the crime
of prefenting a petition, indicted and brought to trial ;
and when the witneffes came to be heard againft them,
the Judge deilared from the Bench, that every one
of them ought be profecuted. If they were to treat
the Catholics in Ireland in the way they had been treat-
ed by the lateMinitters, theywould be greatly fatisfied.
He would not fay they would be altogther fatisfied
without power, but they would fo far be fatisfied as
to fight the French, which it what is very much to
be defired. By conceding to them the advantages
dim y waushl hate.* lierirecli Aviv. %he bac rt gave
them what he might call with the poet—" the pride,
pomp, and circumfiance of glorious war." It made
them in Come fort congenial with ourfelves, and
thereby gave them an enthufiafm which they could
not, under the rodent circumliances, be fuppofed to
poffefs. The Catholics, he Paid, had been remarkable
for their hiyalty ; in proof of which he cited the pre-
ambles of the A& of the. 14th of the King, and (eve-
ral others, which feverally went to that elle& It had
been Paid that we ought to be careful in preferving
the acquifitions of the Church, and that by favouring
the Catholics we thould injure the Church. His
anfwer to that was, that formerty whet) the Protef
tants were engaged againft the Catholics, the difputes
were altogether between therpfelve3 ; but now the
French were engaged againit the whole, and againft
that common enemy all hackto contend. If they were
joined with the Catholics, tote was every favr urable
profpeft and probability thaethey would conquer ; if
on the contrary, they, fought without them, and ihnuld
be beaten in the battle, they would not be beaten by
the Catholics, but by their own prejudices, which de
prived them of their alEltaoce. Thefe circumfiances
deferved the molt ferious and attentive confiderati,.n.
It had been (aid that his Majelly had been deceived
at to the Ifiture, operation, and extent of the Bill
in quetlion. He was at a lots to find out how this
could be. It appeared that on the ad of March, the
j fent all the claufits io the Bill for his Ma.

jelly's perufal, and they were afterwarcli returned to
them without any objeaion. The Bill was then given
up; In that there could be no deception of hi. Me-
jelly on that point. With refired in the pledge, it
was impodible they could accede to it, without in-
curring the greated diforace. They mull have re
flounced the principles of the whole of their former
lite. They mud have reli.-arifhed the off-1;o... of Cow'.
cillors and the high char after of Statefmen, and have
become the mere tools of falary. If tied up
not to prevent their bufinefs to the King, they
gave up what former Miniflers had never done;
for many privileges had been granted to the Ca-
tholics, which they had petitioned for at various
periods of time and been denied. but which privi-
leges had, at a fubfequent period, been granted to
them. For this various reafons might be
according to the different circumflances of the times.
He would fuppofe a French army fhould be landed
in Ireland : would it not be natural to fuppofe, that
prir ileges might then be granted which had previonfly
been retufed ? Minitlers, in pleJging thernfelves not
to bring the cafe of the Catholics under the confidera-
duo of his Majefly, w odd have forfeited their duty
as Officers, and their principles as Statefmen He
entirely approved the concluft of the late Minifler,
becaufe he thought it chit. of a great datefman. He
had teen the effeas of a former Adminiftrati rri, whole
condua had been different towards the Catbor•
again% whom the peels in Ireland was continually
loaded with points and paragraphs, which were good
compofition, bat bad ferric, till they-flung and goaded
the people almod to madnefe. If we joined lain
with the Catholics, we fhould fight againtt ourfelves.
If we world do well, we Ihould keep in mind that
there is but one enemy, which is till French ; and
that our belt defence againft that enemy was our
own unanimity. He well knew that the Catholics
of Ireland did not diflike the Proteftant people
of England ; and he hoped the Englilh people
would not infult the religion of the Irifh Catholics.
He admired the late Miniftry for the mildnefs of
the condua they had purfued in confequence of
the infurreflions which had occurred in the Weft of
Ireland. It had been produaive of the happieft
effeas, by putting a fpeedy end to them, without
applying to the military for their affiftance. He had
before admired Lord Hardwicke for a fimilar pro-
ceeding, who, inftead of letting flip the dogs of war,
had fent for the Judges into the different difturbeci
counties, and put an end to the difturbances by the
fair, impartial, and equal hand of the law. If he were
to fay how he thought Ireland ought to be treated,
he would advife that the utmoff leniency fhould be
obferved. He would make tolerance the rule and
guide of his condua : he would tell the Irifh Catho.
lies, what he hoped the vote of this night would
affure them of, that they had not only a root in Eng.
land, but a root alfo in that Houle ; and by thole
means, be had no doubt, that whatever might be the
event of the creflion, the two nations would be united
as one, and the integrity of the empire eflabliffied.,
Dotior DUIGENAN began by dating, that it
had been faid by feveral Honourable Gentlemen, on
different occafions, that the greater part of the Army
and Navy of this country confided of Hill Catholics.
—He denied fuch to be the fad ; and infitled that
thofe Itithmen who were in our Army and Navy
were madly, if not all, Protedants. It had alto
been laid, that there were four millions of Catholics
in Ireland ; but this ffatement was equally fallacious
with the other ; for the whole population of that
country amounted-only to three millions and a halL
The Protedants were in proportion to the Catholics,
as two to three in number ; and in property, as fifty
to one. The Houle had been told, that the Roman
Catholics would be fatisfied if it gave them the ad-
vantages of (crying In the Army and Navy, as in-
tended by the late Bill. He would tell the Hoare
when the Roman Catholics would be fatisfied--If this
country were given up to them; and they were fuf-
fered to plunder and deftroy all the property in it,
they might then perhaps be content. They had at all
times, and on every occafion, evinced a marked inve-
teracy againd the Protellante ; and in the infurrec-
thins of 1798, they had, at the very outfit of the
fo prepared their fchemes, that they aitually
deftroyed 500 Protefiants in cold blood, in the coutfe
of a (port time. They had burnt 180 in one barn,
and committed every a& of cruelty that could well
be imagined. Many of them had been confined in
prifonslor a length of time; and after being libera•
ted, had been found jo be the moft aftive abettors
and fupporters of the very next difturbancet that had
happened. According to the late Miniders late bill,
thee men might be Commanders in Chief in the army,
and Admirals of the fleets of this country, whole
daggers were yet red with the blood of their Protef-
tant brethren. It was impoffible to admit Roman
Catholics to any portion of civil power ; for they had
a temporal power mixed with their civikand cede&
aftical ellablifhment, which they lodged in the hands -
and fupremacy of a foreign power, who is at this time
under the rule and direction of. Bonaparte. who norni.
Dates the Bifhop,.and he the Prieft. There was at this
moment an army in Ireland in the pay of Bonaparte.
Tientitmen tented or'conciliating the higher orders of
the Roman Catholics. Who were the higher orders
He knew not where to find them. He was Pure there
were not forty Roman Catholic Gentlemen in Ireland
of roool. a year each. In order to make thofe con-
ceffions to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, which
were intended to be given by the late Bill, there mull
be a repeal of the Telt Aft, and of all other Atts
again( the Catholics. Yet Gentlemen went on to fay,
that this would not endanger the ettabliffied Church.
What had already been the coofequence I When the
account of this Bill arrived ip Ireland, the Roman
Catholics called a public meeting, and Mr. Keogh
laughed to (corn the whole of the meafure, as trot
containing enough of conceffion ; and in raeoacrog
terms.• declared they would have all, or none. If the
powers given to LordCornw all ~ to Lord Hardwicke,
and to the Duke of Bedford, he believed alfo, were
continued, and proper powers by them delegated to
the Magillrates, he would engage there would be no
rebellion in Ireland. There had been menaces of re
hellion, but there would be none. The lower order
of the Roman Catholics who had been guar of dif.
jurbances, had neither leaders, agns, nor property.
He knew them well. He had lived all his life in
Ireland, and had been in every part of it. Ifa French
army were landed in Ireland, he believed they would
join it, to a man. There had now been an impudent
convention demand—nay, a dirermenace, in calls
their peition was not complied with. This he co n -