Star.
London, England, 1807-04-14 00:00:00

I

.tt •
Such, he had no doubt, wouldt be the cafe of the
Catholics of Ireland, 'if confidence were placed in
them, and opportunities given them to lbew_their
gratitude and attachment. For their endeavours to
died this great national porpofe 'he confidered the
late Minifiers as entitled to the higheß praife, and as
fuch the prefent motion had his hearty fupport.
• Lord.SIDMOUTH laid, he was glad to bear the
motion matte by the troble Lord who fpoke tall but
'one as he felt it impoffible to affent to the propofi•
tion-ofebe Noble Marquis; and he felt alfo, that it
*as tatjually impoffible for him to meet it with a ne-
enger. It appeared to him, that the motion of ad-
:
. jcturtement was the only one that was proper to get
- rid of the-quellion, without coming to any refolutton
. on it, which the previous queßion would not have
• done. He confidered the prefent motion to be foun-
ded on the explanation that took place previous to
the reeefs. He owed it to his Noble Friends to de-
clare explicitly, that men were never placed in a
fituation of greater difficulty. A mutilated account
had been publifhed of the caufe of difference, in the
public papers, berths they had refigned their offices,
which fully warranted them, in his opinion, in afking
'permiffion to vindicate their charaders, thus unfairly
attacked. A Noble Baron who fpoke early in the
debate, had told their Lordfhips, that they were
called on to refolve on the mere authority of newt
paper paragraphs, and without any Parliamentary
foundation. He had, in the courfe of the difcuffion,
obferved many things which were much mifunder-
Hood ; and much as he daplored that the fubjed was
brought into difcbffion at all, yet having been fo
.'brought before the Houfe, it ought to be correfly
.known. Intreating the patience and indulgence of
the Houfe, he would lay before them all the circum-
stances as they came to his knowledge.
The Earl of,I(ADNOR here fpoke to order, on
the ground that the Noble Vifcount could not enter
into fuch a detail, without infringing the oath of fe-
Crecy he had taken as a Ptivy Councillor.
Lord SIDMOUTH continued and laid, he was
about to inform their Lordfhips of the details which
bad come to his knowledge, if he had not been in-
terrupted. He was, however, abfolved from the
oath of fecrecY., by a permiffion to make this (Fate
iuent, and he helped he fhould not, in doing it, be
any more interrtilited. When his Majetty's late Mi
nifters came into office, they did fo in a manner al-
together-unfettered and unrearained. He under-
flood there wit to mention as to the Catholic CZ-Lief
tion, and their opinions on that fubjeft were deci-
fively known. For his own part, having an opinion
on that point which was very different from that
of many of his Noble and Right Honourable Col.
leagues, he candidly mentioned to the Noble Lord,
and a Right Hon. Gentleman (now no more), that he
hoped the Catholic gliellion Auld never again be
agitated. The point which he felt the greatett anxi-
ety to imprefs on their Lordfhips' minds was, that
be thobgbt the mifconceptions which had taken place
extraordinary, .and that the difpatch of the Flt at
February, with the obferiations which accompanied
h, could not have been mifonderllood. Flom the
commencement of the late Adminithation, he ob-
ferved that his Noble and Right ,Honourable Col-
leagues were extremely anxious to abflain from every
thing relative to the Catholic queftion, till after the,
receipt of intelligence of tome dihurbances having
a itifen in Ireland ; and in February a difpatch, drawn
up at Lord Spencer's, was fubmitted to his Majetly,
to render general the Ad of 1793 made in favour of
the Catholics of Ireland- He then Rated, that it
appeared to him there was no alternative but to re-
peal the Ira Ad, or agree to that then propofed.
A Minute of the Cabinet was afterwards communi-
cated to the King, and on the following day, the
ith of February, at the Queen's Houfe, his
Vaiefil declared, in unqualified terms, he could
not attend to any new arrangements in favour of the
Catholics: The Difpatch contained the whole of the
propofition, and he,,conlidered it as a
_limited pro-
porition. It was fo ufiderßood.by Lord Howick. and
by the Noble Lord who lately fat on the Woolfaek,
who Paid he underftood it as a corollary to the Ad
Of 1791. . Mr. Elliot, however, conceived a doubt
about:it, and it was returned for more pofitive and
• decifive information. The next Rep he had to notice
was, tbil which tools place •after it was undertlood
that the'Bill went to a greater. extent. Some few
days afterwards, his Right Honourable Friend, the
judge Advocate General, was called on to prepare
tome Claufes for the Mutiny Bill, and he then in-
formed bim the meafure was of treater extent than
he bad underftood it. He went immediately to the
Foreign Office, and mentioned the circumßante, and
was there affirred by the Noble Lore 4 that every
patticle of .the Bill fhould be well underflood
before it was brought into Parliament. On the 4th
March the King expreffed a repugnance to the whole
tricafure, and declared he never meant to gobeyond the
_Aft of 1793. On the gth and 6th of March, Lord
Howick brought it forward; and finding that the Bill
wctit further than he intended or thoughtof, he in the
week following refigned his office ; but his Majelty
Commanded him not to !digt,.; and the Noble Lcrd
at the head of the Adminiftratinn requelled alto that
he would wave his intention. He never law tl:e re-
prefentation nor the anfwer returned to it by his Ma-
jetty. He never contemplated there flipulations as
they have been reprefented, but with regret. He was
ture they were made with the bet intentions, and
trom what the parties deemed tactile of the duty
they owed themfelvet ; but they mull recoiled that
his Majefly, in , formiog the Adminiftration, had
never mentioned the quellion, and on its fire in-
trodudion had agreed to it with reludance ; and
it was not to be wondered at, that when he
found it went fo much further than• he expelled,
he thould feel much anxiety and uneafinefs. When
hh Mojelly required a pledge that this queßion fhould
no more be preffed on his attention, he thought it was
to be confidered as a painful proof that they did not
poffifs fo much of his confidence as they had done,
and he, for his own part, fhould have begged to re-
fign his office. With refped to the facred maxim of
the Conititutian, " That the King can do no wrong,"
it muff be under Rood to mean as to all acts of the
Executive Government; in other cafes he might cer-
tainly aft without advifers. He believed, in the
prifent cafe, his Majefly ailed from an internal im-
pulfe of bis own heart, and if their Lordfhips did
not believe there was a fecret advifer, the refolution
direfts Well* againft the perfon of the King. What
had been faid by the Noble Baron who fpoke lalt, as
the opinion of an illulitiois Nobleman (Lord Chi-

tham), refpeAing fecret advifers, he could partly
anfwer from hicown obfervation, and the informa-
tion he had derived from that great Statefman who
had been at-the head of his Majeay's Councils fur
upwards of feiehteen years, who had told him,
that he, had never difcovered a trace of that fe-
cret infldenee that had been alluded to. In the
courfe of the four years he had the honour to be in
the fame fituation, he could alfo fairly and truly fay
the fame. There was no febjeft of equal importance
with that of upholding the Royal Authority; and
therefore he did not approve of inquiries of this
natnre into the motives of the Sovereign. Whatever
might be fuppofed by fome Noble Lords, the great
body of the Catholics of Ireland would be fatisfied
that his Welly was now influenced by the fame pa-
ternal regard which was the conflant guide of his
life. He meant to refill any propofition to fetter or
controul the Royal prerogative ; and upon all thefe
grounds he lbould oppofe the original motion.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE appealed to their
Lordfhips' own recolleition, as to what had been the
conduit of Parliament in_the beR time of our hillory.
Did not Parliament then confider, as indeed it was
an acknowledged principle of our Conflitution, that
the legal and ollenfible Advifers of the Crown were
alone refponfible for every thing that was done by
the Monarch ? And when the King thought proper
to take an Aft entirely to himfelf, by giving a certi-
ficate under his own hand, as an indemnification
to Miniflers for their condor% did not Parliament
maintain, that it was an addition to his crime, that
he had thus furrendered his own refponfibility ?
Let Noble Lords confider then for a moment, if
- - -

it be not equally criminal, at leaft in Come coati-
derable degree culpable, condo& in the prefent
Minifters, that they have at kali virtually affumed
the management of Public Affairs, on a condition,
that they will not, if the preteaion of his Majefty's
Crown, and the falvatinn of the Empire depended
on it, prefume to mention to their Royal Mailer,
perhaps the only topic that it was their !worn duty
to advance, and flrengthen by their recommends•
tion ? Would not a •forbearance to urge a topic that
might pollibly be molt effentially interefting to the
general welfare of the Sovereign and his People, be
highly criminal in the Servants of the Crown? If
his Msjefly's late Miniflers had' given a pledge of
the nature that had been demanded of them, would

they not then have given up the exercife of their
own judgment, for which alone they could he
deemed refponfible—and would they not, for loch
bale furrender of their own refponfibility, be
junly liable to punifhment ? If his Majelly's pre•
fent bliniflets have denied the admillion of !itch

a principle as this, they, unqueflionably, when the
change in his Majedy's Councils was occafioned by a
refufal to fetter their judgment for ever after, and feal
up their lips upon a particular queßion; when this was
known to be the cafe, and when it was not attempted
to be denied that the principle upon which fuch a
refufal was given was truly conditutional, molt un-
queftionably thole Noble Lords who fucceeded his
Majelly's late Minitlers in office, ought to have de-
clared themfelves, and let their Sovereign know
what was their opinion on this great Conititutional
Q2ellion. If they did fo, it was a matter which
could eafily be proved, that they did fo in fo many
terms. Tf they did not fo declare themfelves, they
accepted of office with at lead the implication of a
pledge of the nature that had been fpoken of, and were
highly culpable ; but if they entered on office with a
potitive Ripulation, they were guilty of a crime in the
eyes of the-Conftitution,for which they are anfwerable
to Parliament. It was Rated that his Majedy had,
at a particular time, when it was known that thole
Noble Lords were not the the acknowledged Conftitu-
tional Advifers of the Crcwn, been waited upon by
a Noble Lord oppofite (Lord Hawke(bury) and the
Noble Lord now on the Woolfack ; and he was in-
formed that in lets than two hours after that time,
a Noble Lord who does not ufually make up his
I mind in fo fhort a fpace of time, that Noble Lord
agreed to draw at leaft the outline of a new Admi-
niaration. A Noble Duke in the blue ribbon (the
Duke of Portland) alfo fecretly waited on the King,
at a time when he was not a refponfible fervant of
the Crown. Yet it was a remarkable fad, that many
of thole who thus came into the Admlnillration of
the public affairs, had, on a former occafion, either
direaly, or by implication, given their countenance
' and fupport to a meafure of a fimilar nature, but
which was conftderably more extenfive in degree than
that which had led to the demanding of that pledge,
which it was admitted had been mod conftitutionally
withheld. One Noble Lord in particular, who is
not a Member of this Houfe, (Lord Calllereagh) had
mod unequivocally, and even officially, encouraged
the Catholics of Ireland to hope for the general
participation in the enjoyment of thofe rights which
are at prefent enjoyed by every Protedant (tibial of
the Britilh Empire. The Pledge is itfelf acknow-
ledged to be unconftitutional, and with relpe& to the
(,),Lredion which preceded that, (the claims of the
Roman Catholics) it is an incontrovertible fad, that
it had the fupport of the molt enlightened Statefmen
, in Great Britain on a former eccallon, and even of
tome of the leading Members of this very Admini-
ftration that now oppofe the meafure.
Lord MULGRAVE declared, that not one fen-
tence of the import to which the Noble Lord who
had jun fat down had alluded, had ever been com-
mitted to paper by his Majefty's prefent Minitters,
nor had it been required of them. He denied, how-
ever, that the confidential advifers of the Crown,
bad a right, on every oceafion, to ad ftrialy, ac.
cording to their own opinion. This was in a great
meafure to be regulated by, circumltances; and, if
on fuck a queftion as that which was now the fubjea
of their , Lordihips' confideration, the, fetvants of
the Crown fhould happen unfortunately to differ in
opinion from their Royal Mader, it was their duty to
retire. It was a general stsaxim in the Britifh Confti-
tution, that the advifers of the Crown fhould give fuch
advice according ,to the bell of their own free and
unbia (fed judgment ; but human inftitutions were not
fo perfectly whole and entire that there could not be
the leaft exception to fuch a general principle. If
King Williams for inftancr, fhould have been advifed
to grant the fmalled indulgence to the Roman Ca-
tholics, it would, then have been his intereft to make
ufe of his royal authority in oppofition to Inch ad-
vice, and it would be criminal in an! Waffler to have
preffed hia Killion againft that of has Sovereign, un•
der fuch,s;ycnalflatmess even if he fhould have. reafon
to fuppofe that hisionin opinion "as the molt con.
ducive to the interett of the Kin hunfelf.