Star.
London, England, 1815-06-10 00:00:00

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Yet• know nothing of fortification!. Gederal Mann,'
(The Inspector-General of Engineers) had. however.
sten a great deal of service; and if the HonourAble
q, en tlem an doubted the competency of his skill io
hii profession, let him enter the' lists with him; And
rhea he would be able to judge* better nn a subject
of:which he. and those around him, knew little or

nothing.
Mr. BENNETT said, he . had named no one in
particular ; his obsertations applying to the Board
of Courmilsioners genitally.; Most of whom, he con-
tended, had not seen sufficient service to render them
atimpetent judges of the art of fortification. He al-
luded also to the plan for preventing the publication
of the maps made from the topographical survey of
the counties, under the direction of the Board of
Ordnance. The Inland Counties were nut to be
'Published, whereas some of the principal maritime
ones had been. . • .
• Mr. W.\ RI) said, the Honoureale Gentleman had
brought forward a very heavy charge of incompe-
tency against' the- board, without mentioning any
names, it was true; and on that ground lie called it
'no charge at all. Lethim bring a regular charge of
incompetency against General Mann, or the Board,
and it would be shewn by their works whether they
ware competent fir their office or not. As to pre-
Tenting the maps from being published, it was dor4
with it view to hinder the enemy obtaining military
information, as to thelace of the country. When the
Allies were about to enter France, Bonaparte ordered
'the plates of Cassini's great Map of France to be'
seized, and they were actually found in a box which
was packed up for his.departure to Elba.
Mr. WHITBREAD was somewhat =prised as.
the reason fur not publishing maps of the interier, oft.
the country, when those of the sea coast were already
in .the hands of the French, most probably, as a verj
distinguished officer; when;, was employed on those to-
pographical surveys, had since the peace again retort.-
tied to the French service. The Hon. Gentleman
should have taken no notice of the box, which was
opened, expecting it to contain the Crown. Jewels of
France, which Bonaparte was running Tway with
(and which were, by the .bye, afterwards run away
with by another Ruler of France) but which contained
only some plates of maps. The fortifications of
Chatham, Dover Castle, and the Kovno Towers,
had been carried on in Such a way as to excite deri.
sine on those who planned them. He had heari that
two sets of engineers gave in to Mr. Pitt plans of de.
fence for the coast. One was by a canal, the other
by Martello Towers. Mr. Pitt told thetn•+,•" Indeed,
Gentlemen, I am incapable of judging between you e
but, for fear of mistakes; let us have both your plain
put in execution." The Hon. Gentleman had said,
they on that side of the House were incapable of
judging of the competency of these Commissioners.
Pliny might not be so will able to judge of them, as
a man (if any such there was) who from writing a
hook on the Civil Law in his closet. was, some how
or whet., put into the Ordnance Department ;—but,
as Members of Parliament, it was their duty to in-,
quire into, and animadvert on, the competency or,
any officer in the state, even of the Hon. Gentleman
himself to fill his office.
Mr. WARD said, it would not have been accnr-,
.ding to the temper or manners of the Hon. Gentle-
man, if hv hat: not mixed up in his speech a great
deal of personal abuse. But he dealt his blows so
much at random that he would rather be the object-
cf his attacks than otherwise.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, the Hon. Gentleman
had now proved himself unfit for his office by de.
fining a personal attack, as being blows dealt about
at random. That was just as correct as if he defined
a direct aim to be a random shot —(4 laugh.)
Mr. F. Law's, Mr. D. GIDDY, and Mr. BARING.
were of opinion, that no injury toutd arise to lee
country from the publication of these-maps. On tat
contrary much benefit would be derived.' • ',-
Mr. R. WARD rose and' stated, that he did not
repent of what ha had said of tha public iteritata
the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whitbreia), lattaespecteti
his private conduct, but could not retract a single.
word that he had uttered. 11
Mr. WHITBREAD rose to order, and requested
the Hon. Gentleman would explain %hat Le irh ant by
using language which he deemed unparliamentary.
• Mr. BROGDEN (the Chairman) put it to the
Committee to say, whether the matter had not better
aloe, and whether there bad not been too much per-
' sonat attack ?
Mr. WHITBREAD denied that he had personally
attacked the - Hon. Gentleman. His observations
were parliamentary..
Mr. It. WARD repeated, that he did • not repent
of what he had said. He disclaimed any intention
to use personality to the Gentleman.
Mr. WHITBREAD requested that the Hon.,
Gentleman would use parliamentary language. The
txpression or designation Gentleman, without the Hun:
was uupatliamentary.
Mr. It. WARD repeated, that he felt it sr oeftib
went t,. be attacked by the Hon. Gentleman. '•l'vei
Mr. BENNETT here rose to order.
Mr. R. WARD said he should follow his tygr
discretion in the line of argument which he mightet,
any time take. The Hon. Gentleman had madslllo,
of the term Civilian, as applicable to him (lalr..Wised)
and in imputing ignorance to the, lion. Gentleman,
he never intended to use the word in any other sense
than as applicable to the criticism of military works
by a person not a military man ; and who, of course,
could not, from that circumstance, be so competent
to forma correct judgMent. With respect to what
had been urged by the other Hon. Gentleman, in re•
spect to the maps, it was impossible that Government
could publish them, for the reasons stated. .
Sir J. NEWPORT asked why certain Centrals,
which he had moved for, were not laid before die
House ? He was anxious to know, because the Act
of 1782 provided that Members Of Parliament should
not enter into any contracts with any of the Public
Boards, and directed that sprovision.should be intro-
duced 'into the contracts to that effect. He under-
stood that two Members had made Certain contracts
with one of the Boardsi; therefore that Board
.was
highly blameable for not introducing the provision.
-Mr. R.* WARD stated, that the reasons the sm.-
' counts of the contracts were not before the House was,
that the motion had'beett made fora Return 'of Cce
'radii Or the last five
.years, anitthe Returns haVlits
been called foe enly ten days since were not ready.
• Mr Ho 314g.T pi desired some information
spectinraitadditional salary of -41500 a MT OHM

I.