Star.
London, England, 1802-04-03 00:00:00

SANK 01 ENGLAND.

Mr. Rosso' obferved, that ever fince the re•
ftrittion in February 1797, with regard to the Me
of fpecic by the Bank of England, conliderable
fums of money had been paid by the Public to the
Bank for fums advanced by way of loan. He un-
derftood that it was not expefted that the Bank
would refume its payments in gold at the period
appointed by the Aft of Parliament. This was
an important confederation, becatire if the Bank
did not recommence its payments in fpecie, it
would operate as a very confiderahle hardthip on
the Public, fhould it be compelled to continue pay-
ing intereft—he was of opinion, the Bank aCting
upon the fame principle as the Eaft India Com-
pany, ought at leaft to allow the Public to divide
the interelt of the fums advanced. Alturedly it
never could be the intention of the country and of
the Houle of Commons, to let the Public pay
' large films of money for intereft, while the re.
Ittiftion on the Bitnk exifted. With a view, there-
fore,
to fuch motion as he might hereafter deem
it neeefTary to fubmit to the Houle, be now moved
—" That the proper officer prefect to the Houfc,
an account of the feveral fums of money paid by
Government to the Governor of the Ba..k of
England, for intereft on Loans of Money, fince
the reftriftion with regard to the payment of its
notes in gold, in February 1797."
Mr. KAN Nl'm laid, that according to his notion
of the ufe the Hon. Gentleman meant to make of
the account, it was his objeft to take back from
the Bank a part of the fums Government had, al-
ready paid for interelt—he was therefore of opi.
nion his motion ought not to he acceded to.—
Every Loan, with the terms on which it had been
advanced by the Bank, had been fanaioned by
the Legiflature. Every Exchequer Bill Aft had
been Mauled and approved of, and claufes in.
troduced with the approbation of Parliament,
to enable the Bank to make its advances, upon
the condition of receiving intereft—the Hon.
Gentleman was calling upon the Ilottfe to refcind
its own folemn alts, and particularly the Aa paired
in 1798, by which, in consideration of the Bank ad-
vancing a certain Pura for fix years, without intereft,
its charter was renewed, with all the privileges it
before enjoyed—the molt important prtvilegeof the
Bank was that of lending money at intereft. It
might have been open to the Hon. Gentleman when
the Charter was propored to be renewed, to have
oppofed fuch renewal, or he might have objefted to
particular claufes in ;he Exchequer Bill Os, but,
after folemn determinations, coming forward in
this manner, with repeated motions for papers,
without giving any notice, was certainly extremely
improper. The Hon. Gentleman might as well.
move for the accounts of fums received for intereft
by any private Banker.
The CHANCILLOR of the Excurc&yxa laid, he
was forry the Hon. Gentleman fhould have brought
forward filch a motion without any notice ; poffi-
bly it might be proper to grant 't, or it might not
—he was not prepared to fay whether the motion
ought to be received. It was not ufual to make
filch motions without notice. He fhould abflain
'from giving any opinion upon the rubjea at pre-
terit ; he rather wiflied the Hon. Gentleman, in
candour to the Houle, would withdraw his mo-
tion, and name a day for renewing it. •
Mr. kossos, in explanation, laid, he did not
mean that the public had any right to interfere
with the profits of the Bank fur the pei iod that had
He only inferred that if the Bank did
not pay in gold, it ought not to be allowed to take
advantage of that circumftance to the prejudice of
the public. The Hon. Member was proceeding,
when there was a general cry of Spfe fpoi: !
The CH ANC E ILOR of the ExcitFQ, sit imme•
diasely role, and moved thelpleyions question.
Mr. Guy filid he had on many nee.' tions dif-
fered fi om the Charitellor of the Exchequer, with
iegard.ta the praftice of giving notices of Motions
i %t ;1.5 a pradice not faalioned tin scty Ltclrby

the ordinary pradice of Parliament ; and yet he
was ready to admit, that upon quettions of a dif-
ficult nature it was attended with great convcni
ence to the Houfe to adhere to it. In the relent
inflance the ground upon which the lion. Gentle-
man had retied. his Mtaion, required very little
confideration ; and if the previous queflion had
not been moved, he ftionld have had no lielitation
in negativing it. The account he had moved fin
was unnecetrary, as every year accounts of films
paid by Government to the Bank for Interell of
Loans were laid upon the Table ; and the lion.
Member, with a very little of his diligence, might
have obtained the information he deface!. The
objemt of his motion was totally inadmiffible.—
He obferved, that a more unfortunate event, in
his opinion, for this Country never occurred, than
the palling the Bill for refiriding the Money Pay-
ments by the lkink. He had expreffed his dilly-
probation of it at the time, and was fully per-
loaded then and now, that it was a meafure which
might have been avoided ; but the law had paired,
and having patted, the calling upon the Bank to
reform: the payments in fpecie, was a fitbjed of
extreme nicety. The difficulties would certainly
encreafe it Parliament WAS to continue the prac-
tice from titre to time as a matter of courfe. He
was of opinion the Bank might•and ought to have
been prepared to have refumed its payments upon
the return of Peace. It was a Peace which bad
not been made fuddenly. On the contrary, the
negotiations had occupied a confiderable period,
and every opportunity had been afforded the Bank
of making filch preparations as would have pre-
cluded the neccffity of continuing the.refiridions.
If the Bill for rearaining the payments in money
was renewed, without ample inquiry into the ne-
cellity of fuel) a meafure, it would be an addi-
tional misfortune to the country. The Honoura-
ble Gentleman had mil-conceived the fubjed, in
fuppoting dna the public ought to !hare the in-
tereft of films advanced by the Bank to Govern-
ment. It was on the principle of public conve-
nience, and not for the advantage of the Bank,
the refiridion was impofed ; but unquellionably,
what had been done was fandioned by the public
faith. With a view to any future operatiQns, the
Honourable Gentleman might, if he thought pro•
per, move to introduce a claufe in the next Bill
to prevent the Bank receiving inter& of the Pub-
lic during the refiridion. He hoped the Honour-
able Gentleman would not prefs his Motion. He
had thought it right to make there few obferva-
tions, and to avail himfelf of the opportunity of
afking the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether
it really was his intention to renew the law for pro-
hibiting the Bank making its payments in Specie?
TheCtieNcem.ct of dte Excuacture faid, it was
not his intention to make any preliminary motion
of inquiry previous to moving for the continuation
of the retiridion. His reafons for the meafure he
intended to propofe would be Rated to the Houfe,
and it would be for them to decide whether it was
proper or not. The Houfe would recoiled, that
the At of Reßridion would expire a month after
the Definitive Treaty was figned. His motion would
be founded on the reafons which he iliould Rate to
the Houle, and not on any preliminary inquiry.
Mr. ilictioxxs faid, the Houfe ought to know
what advantage the Bank had derived from the
privilege which had been granted to them. With
refped to giving notice, he thought it was unne-
ceffary to give notice of a motion for the produc-
tion of 'a public paper. Befides, there was not
time in this cafe, as the motion for continuing the
refiridion was to be made on Tuefday.
Mr. Fust.LEa faid, the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer had entered the Houfe without being in the
leall apprized of any motion of this nature, and
he thought' it was unfair to perfift in it.
Mr. COURTEMAY faid, the only queftion was,
whether the Bank had received an advantage
or not ? perhaps it had derived no profit from the
refiridion ; if they had not, there was no occafion
for the account ; if they had, the Ad was inciden-
tally for the advantage of the Bank.
Mr. VANSITTAIT (poke againft the motion for
the account.
The previous queftion was then put.
Mr. Roma faid, the fubjed was one which in.
volved the price of every article of life. In anfwer
to a remark made by an Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Grey) he had only to ohferve, that he could pro-
bably point out, from papers on the Table, nearly
the fum the Bank had received, but if he was to
produce and argue upon filch an account on Tuef
day, he Rsould be told he knew nothing of the mat-
, ter. He maintained that all Europe was contem-
plating the payment of fpecie by the Bank as the
criterion of the credit of the country. If the Bank
continued to iffue paper, country banks would do
the fame without eontroul—they would itruc their
notes without mercy. It was, in his opinion, the
commencement of a courfe of Affignats. (Order !
order ! and guelion ! was reed from every part of the
Houfr.)—He proceeded to Rate, that paper money
fupported monopolies, and railed the price of pro.
vilions. He hoped the Houfe would encourage his
motion—give him the paper, and he knew how to
make ufe of it—(a burl of lauglger.)
11 Mr. Hoattouss was againa the original motion.
Every private Banker made a property of his prin-
cipal, and why ought the Bank to be denied the
fame privilege. -He conceived the motion had no
'relevancy whatever to the quetlion to be bi ought
forward on Tuefday. He thought the Chancellor
of the Exchequer had dealt mildly in moving the
previous gm-Rion. Be wifhed a negative had been
moved. _ _ _

Mr. Jow ES (aid, he was forty he differed from
his Eon. Friend (Mr. alobhonfe). When he was
wont to reafon in the valley_of minority, his argu-
ments were very different IV what they were now
he was perched on majority mount—(a loud laugh.)
He juilified the motion of his Hon. Friend, and
o%ferved, that fuch was the enormous power of
the Bank Directors that the merchants were afraid
of them. At a reri44l like the prefent, when the
Bank of England was compared on the Continent
to a paper kite, Purely it W3S not right to call the
previous queilion, on fuch a motion as the prefent,
a mild proceeding. As to giving notice, the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer was.,continually
whole volumes of palms without any aolice on

the ; a:1.1 v.•!,at was fair for cr.c tra s rtir L:
anothzr.

Mr. Si r o wiffied Come reglilat:on to be adopt.
ed N ith rt•gir:i notiet; of Motion, in fit tore.
Tit: previto is rine.t..o:: ‘r-is p•:t and carried
affirmative, wi,hout a divition.

t4IhIDAD.

Mr. CANNIVC raid, he 1-011. to make the Moti-ar
of which he had and as 1•1 riattet ed
him fell that no 01.je,-1i(.3 would be rude to it,
ilionid Rate, as filortiy as poffible, the r.-aileis
which lit founded the prefent !notion, which wts
preliminary to one of which !le had alb° given no-
tice relative to the cultivation of the itland of Tri-
nidad. He did not difguife that his attention was
directed to the quellion relative t.! the SlaveTradz,
though he did not mean then to enter into the
difcuffion of that quellion ; but often as it had lizeit
dilcuffed, and amidit the variety of conflialing
opinions relative to that fubjeat, he had never heard
any one attempt to maintain that if the Slave Trade
did not now exift it ought to be commenced. There
had been only two points relative to this fubjea
that had been decided upon by the Houle, the one
in r 792, that the Slave Trade fhould be gradually
abolithed, and the other in 1797, when an Addrefs
to his Majctly was voted, praying that his Majefly
would be gracioufly pleated to take fuch mealures
as would lead to the diminution and ultivisate also.
lition of this Trade. It moil be admitted, that
to bring a great extent of new lands into cultiva-
tion, molt be very far from contributing to t' e
ultimate abolition of this Trade, and if the
Illand of Ti inidad was brought into cultivation,
it evidently could not contribute to that abolition.
It was important, therefore, that the Houk thoiild
be in potiellion of authentic information relative
to this Ifland. If he was not mifinformed, the
land to be put into a Rate of .cultivation, in the
Ifland of Trinidad, was fomewhat more than half
the whole quantity of land which was cultivated
in all our Weft India Iflands. According to a
Statement publiflied by a Member of that Hoare,.
now no more, the whole quantity of land in a-ltate
of cultivation, in the Ifland of Jamaica, in the
year 1795, amounted to tOOO,OOO of Acres, em-
ploying two hundred and fifty thoufand Slaves.—
If he was not much mifinformed, the Hand of
Trinidad •contained 800,000 acres, of which, at
the time it was captured by Great Britain, only
one eighteenth was in a Rate of cultivation, cm.
ploying about 10,000 negroes. If 250h000 negroes
were employed in the cultivatiOn of the lands in
Jamaica, he rcquetted Gentlemen would have in
their minds and confider the number of negroes
which mull be imported to Rock the lands of Trini-
dad. The objection molt frequently made by thorn
who oppofed the abolition oldie Slave Trade was,
that it was injurious to the veiled ititerefts of the Weft
India Proprietors. No man war lets willing than
himfelf to trench upon thofevelted intere Rs, but this
objeCtion would tend rather to ftrengthen the mo-
tion which he intended to bring forward, as the
great advantage refulting from confining his mo-
tion to Trinidad was, that there was very little
property vetted in that Ifland; and he part7eu-
tarty withed to know, as nearly as poffibL, how
many individuals had a 'vetted interea in that
lfland ? There was one point he withed to ani-
madvert upon ; he had been informed that once
the capture of Trinidad fome refumption grants of
land had been made. The Spaniards had mask
feveral grants of this nature, as they had formerly
done in Jamaica, that is to fay, the lands were to
be refumed if not put in a Rate of cultivation with-
in a certain time. He wifhed to know what the
criterion was by which it was afcertained that the
lands were not put into a Rate of proper cultiva•
tion. Upon confidering the fubjea, it (truck him
that nothing was fo likely to be the criterion as
the number of labourers or naves employed in the
cultivation of the land. If this was the cafe, and
if tlw land was liable to be refumed if there was
not a fufficient number of Raves employed in its
cultivation, it became a queftion what was the leaft
number of negroes without which the land could
not be put into a proper Rate of cultivation. Upon
looking at Jamaica, he found that 250,000 negroes
were employed in the cultivation of i,ooo,oca
acres, or one negro to every four acres ; he might
take this, therefore, as the kali number of tie-
groes, without which the land could not be fuffi-
ciently cultivated. He wafted, however, that the
Houfe fhould be in poffe.ffion of every information
relative to the fubjeft. He concluded by moving
" That an humble Addrefs ihould be prefented to his M.--
jetty, praying that his Majefty would be gracieufly pleafcd to
give &talons that there ihould be laid before the Houk,
Copies or Alan:rads of all Letters and Information received
from the Governor or Commander in Chief of the Illand of
Trinidad, bate the period of its capture, relative to the Rare of
the Cultivation of the Bland, and an Account of the different
Claffes of Inhabitants, and likewife of any Allotments of Land
made linec the Capture 4 alfo Copies of all Orders fent to the
Governor of the faid IDaad, relative to the Settlement of the
fame, and alio an Account of the Lands refutned, with the
reafoes of fuch refumption."
The CHANCELLOR of the EICHEQ,II7,It raid, it
was not his intention to objed to the motion made
by the Right Hon. Gentleman, nor to offer many
obfervations on the nature of the information it
would produce, provided the limit** fhould agree
to the Addrefs, and his Majelly fhould, as unques-
tionably he would, be pleated to make an order
accordingly. He was only delirous that the Right
Hon.pentleman and the Houfe fhould underhand
the matter, and fhould not be milled by fuppoting
that the information to be obtained in confequence.
of this addrefs would amount to that which the
Right Hon. Gentleman Teemed to expeet. It ni,,a
6.1
be the with of Government that every inforrnatiiiii
poffible fhould be laid before Parliament, fo as to
enable it to form a corred opinion of the value i.f
Ithat important acquilition (Trinidad), which vi as
made by his Majefty's arms, and fecured by thz.
Definitive Treaty ; but he owed it to the ll' ,LICe.
Ito fay, that after having made pretty diligent cii-
quiry, he had not been able to obtain loch infinina-
Lion as the Right Hon. Gentleman teemed to ex-.
peat, relative to the allotment or diriril.ettiun ~1
land in that part of the world. He had not re.
ceived fpecific information on the fubjel of the
grants of land. made by the authority of the Go-
vernment, nor under the head of inaruCtions to
Governors, Ike. had he received that witich w;,.%
now defired by thc Right Hon. Gentleman. NVith

mon