Star.
London, England, 1822-06-22 00:00:00

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so ft ody west to the inettimtkffi d!salvias! rigida, is ea. ra 4111011. eat eta far digeripdah The
titled to be judged upon its own indMdual merits. If this Act rdlirterioat lives Were= monkids son,
pas
sra. the g. th ral discussion would take place; if it did mu pass, aid wham tights were taken away-toga ibis% wan the greaten
still the general discussion wood come on after the same lapse and most esseopaimpanapa at theinoinemil waireh, owes
of tin" , and he hoped thak time would not be long. He called the Fint. He ens admildied the diet IWO refuse this
upon the Noble Earl to my why this' question must expedite the right when .1 Amid was gine by ; as wall they, in a
Enteral measure.? He thought the BM would do great good as thno of palkold preatt, tramoarat this mars intel slun
a matter of justice to the Peers who had a right to complain of died pima Nig jai maw oninits. net if eisgswas soy
their exclusion. It would also be a gnat ade*tsge to the Haas, Pr k lilt a Is have it prothisly paned nest: iodise&
and the act would-be in conformity to the wishit always par- They should bet irwhat danger there would be to the Protest-
wed, of not extending its penalties beyond what necessity re- ante
religion or the Protestant succession should the Duke of
'le The Act would be comistent with the praetke and N: take his seat in that House.
rinclps of the °methadon. Polley ond ionic* alike demanded REDESDA LE could net consider that the hereditary
P
tt ; and he earnestly hoped that thdr laars would do them- rllihmog the Peerage were inalienable or unalterable because they
tw, the justice of removing the Statuettes= their books. • linlns hereditary, since the King himself would be deprived of '
Tie Earl rif LIVERPOOL said he should oppose his rights if he were to depart from the Protestant Religion. U
the Bill, on the narrow grounds of this measure itself, and with there belonged to Catholic Peers such indelible rights as those
ascribed to them by the Noble Baron, they had no !madams to
0 little reference to the general quad= as potable. But he
propose to them by this BM to take even the Oath of Abjure-
would ask whether it was fitting to this Bill without doing
snythiug more for the general of the Catholics? Queen don. This, therefore, was simply a question of expedii,eesgglor
yl,zsbi•th had a great dread of the Puritans, and therefor, she justice had nothing to do with it. If they had a re
left us without any security against the Catholics or against a probably with a majority of Catholics, what security would there
be for the Protestant Church and State, or succession ? The
Catholic succession. It was a groat absurdity in James I. to
nonce of our Constitution was a Protestant Execudvc and a
marry his son ro the daughter of a Catholic Monarch. It was
Protestant Leghlature—a Protestant Monarch and a Protestant
;lever till the Revolution that the connection between Church
Parliament—(Hear, hear).—James I. wished to do that by his
;ad State was finally settled and established. No man abhorred
own power which they were now called on to do by their legb-
the conduct of Titus Oates and his associates more than he did;
latiye authority, and by so doing to assist in undemdidng the
but did it follow that the laws consequent on the Popish Plot
Protestant fabric of Church and State--(Hear, hear). He •
were not necessary and proper? Would any man say that there
was not, in the reign of Charles 11. a conspiracy to overturn the aw agree to this measure, as it was only a prelude to others
Protestant religion? If the King, from conscience became a a much more extensive character.
Catholic, he must descend from the Throne, as his subjects would Lord HOLLAND moved that the 71st of their Standing
Orders should be read, which stated, that it was the right of
be absolved from their allegiance; and therefore, if the Catholic
Peers resolved, from conscience, to proserve.their religion, they every Member of that House to sit and vote without taking
any oath ; and this shelved that the departure from that was only
were placed in uo worse situation•than the King would be were
to be resorted to in cases of Imminent danger; this threw the
be to turn Catholic.—(Hear.)—Were they to be persuaded, from
burden of the proof of danger on those who opposed this Bill
arty ~Contents that had been addressed to them, to give up se-
curities which had given them 150 years peace under a Pro- Much had been said of anomalies, but the whole of our Church
truant King and Protestant State?--(Hear, hear, hear). He arrangement here* In Scotland, and in Ireland' was an anomaly
had declared his intention not to go into a discussion of the throughout. The Noble and Learned Lord (Melon) seemed to
think that the introduction of stx Catholic Peers hoothat Howse
general question • but it was impossible not to advert to the
would destroy all the laws of the land. He seemed to think
Noble Earl's (Earl Grey) soeech without going as far as he had.
The Noble Earl only wished, he said, to bring them back to that his excellent friend, the Duke of Norfolk, would, on taking
his seat in that House, pull a Bell of the Pope from under the
old laws and old systems;—those laws froth Elizabeth's time
table, which was to ton all their Lordships, and overturn the
till the Revolution. Undr that no system, they had civil
religion of the country—(Hear, hear).—But the anomaly was,
wars and bloodshed; and would they then part with securities
that Catholics would be allowed to sit in one House and not in the
which time had proved the value of, and launch into a sea of
other. If that was an anomaly, it was, at leak, a very ancient
doubt, uncertainty, and experiment, again? Besides, if even
one, and therefore he should have thought it would have received
ens Bill were carried, the great measure would be left as open
much respect from the Noble and Learned Lord. Another ob-
:Is ever. They were, by their writs of summons called to de.
jection to this Bill was, that it contained no securities; but if there
liberate in that House on all matters connected with the State;
were it would have met with no better reception from the Noble
and how could Catholic Peers be allowed to deliberate'on mat-
Lords er
pposite. But there we a host of securities in the whole
ors connected with a religion to which they must be opposed ?
Bencho of Bishops, the Noble and Learned Lord on theWoulsack,
lksides, in this Instance, the idea of offering securities was en-
and the Sixteen Scotch Peers, which must still be Protestants.
t,rely given up. The Catholic Question had always originated
The latter Noble Lords were bound by their religion to consider
in Petitions front Ireland ; and yet there was not a man in that
country who would directly receive the slightest benefit from Episcopacy as an abomination before GOO, but he never heard
of their moving the Rev. Prelates should be driven from the
t!:e carryino this measure. If they argued even that the men- Bench and from that House—(Hear).—Whin the mother of the
sure was goodi' in itself, still it must be admitted that nothing
Graechi was called upon to display her treasures, she triumph-
was more galling than for an act of emancipation to be passed for
andy pointed to her children, saying, "here are any treasures I"
the English Peer, not including the Irish. Thus by adopting this
raeasute they would abando.i the ground of every preceding one. He should advise the English Peers, if called upon for securides,
to point to the Bench of Bishops, and say, "Mere ore our amts-
But there was another objection of a more serious nature which
he had to point out to char Lordships against the Bill. This was rities I' Hear, hear).—There were legal securities too in an
:be granting of privileges to the leers, in which the Catholic Corn- Act of the Noble and. Learned Lord on the Woolsack, which
removed large burdens from many of his Majesty's subjects, by
moner did not participate, which in a free Government was a
allowing Catholic Peers to approach the Court of the King
principle more obnoxious almost than any that could be devised.
—it w.s said, that in the reign of Elizabeth, Catholic Peers sat without taking the Oath of Abjuration ;bat they knew that that
oath excluded many from sitting in that House; though he con-
k the Legislature, though the Commons did not. But if they
would examine the history of those times, and mark him little tended that the High Court of Parliament was the Court of the
the rights of the Commoner were known in those times, there King. Henry VIII. who destroyed the authority and supre-
macy of the Pope in this kingdom, yet never thought of int-
would appear reason sufficient to exclude them from taking that
posing any oath on his Catholic Peers. He (Lord Holland)
as an example. In the discussion upon the general question they
would not ask, from a pious Catholic, a test oath, in bard words
were told that they might make a stand against Catholic en-
and bad language, but would say to him, give a test by your life
crsacliments in various ways. It was true they might throw up
and conduct that you de not believe in those abominable doctrines.
barriers against the franchise, against the admission into the
Privy Council, or beyond the' Legislature ; but on which prin. If this was not true philosophy, yet it was truacharity and MO..
dpk could they justify their admission to the Peerage, and not The Standing Order which he bad had read at the table was posed
at the instance of Lord Shaftesbury, after sixteen days delis"
to the House of Commons? Although the rank and privileges
and is one of the fullest Houses that ever met in that eventfull
of men might differ, yet the rights of all men were the same.—
period. This was thrown in his teeth; but he had only said that
The right of the poor man to his cottage was as good as that of
they were masters of their own Order, and so prevailed as the
their Lordships to their mansions. The King held not his Crown
House to pass the Bill of Exclusion on the Catholic Peers. He ma-
to any higher title than the owner of the smallest property his
tended, that neither the Wht.es( Charles the Second's dine. the
right of enjoying it, and in this consisted the great strength of
the monarchy—(Bear, hear, hear). By this Bill they were Convention Parliament, new Ling William himself, thmighr this
Act accessary, although they did not think proper to repeal it.
called upon to say that the right of the Commoner to be elected
He thought the objections urged against the Bill could not be
was not equal to that of the Peer to sit. Both rights might
be modified and qualified for the public benefit ; but how could maintained; they wanted en skis occasion 11. securities l and if
they
eitatsdid want them, securities were to be found in the law as it
they go forward to say that the Peer shall sit in the Legis-
lature, but that the Commoner should not ? He asked if any n°,w i___,.* _—Their Lordships then divided on the question for the
a'''''''.
thing was so objectionable or new., in modern times, as this 1
Contents, .. 90—Proxies, 10-.-Total, 90 •
dioinetion ? They possessed certain privileges for the good
Non Contents, 37—Proxies, 55—Total, 132
o• the State, but not for invidious pueposes--(llear hear).— Majority against the snood reading 4--451
To look after the concerns of religion was one of '
the principal
duties of that House, and surely then that branch of the Legit. The Bill therefore is, for the Present Session at least, kW'
Adjourned at One o'clock.!attire had a greater right to ask for securities as to faith than
the other. The Noble Earl opposite had stated the question to HOUSE OF COMMONS.
them in plain terms, that they were justified in passing this Bill, The Report of the Stamp Duties Bin was ordered to be taken'.
even if they went no further. Now, be believed that there into further consideration on Tuesday next.
could be no more serious evil than to pass this Bill, and go no Pe s were presented from the Magistrates and Justices of
further—( Hear).—He believed that they must go further ; but, Pembroke, praying a revision of the system of Welsh Judicature.'
if not, they would do that which was most invidious, and give The Report of the Roasted Cora Bill was takes into further
store dissatisfaction than if they did nothing at all—(Hear). consideration, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time on
—lle contended that, upon every view of the question, they Thursday next.
wore called upon to reject the FM. It settled nothing, but The Report of the Committee on the Irish Three was brought
left the whole question open, as much as when they first en-
tered upon the discussion of it. It drew the most invidious "P"
The Resolution; respecting duties on dOgs was agreed to,
and a Bill ordered accordingly.
distinction between the Peerage and the commonalty— a dis-
tinction which, he believed, no one could seriously retommend. The Westminster Improvement BM was read a second time,
and ordered to be committed.
And as to those who did not agree with slim upon the general
M' WALLACE, on account of the advanced period of the
i queetion but supported the Catholic claims generally, all he r
and the little probability there was of being able to carry
asked of them was, to put this question to themselves, viz. who. Session,
the measure through the two Houses previous to the prorogation,
Cher this measure did anything towards strengthening the Clllse, now expressed his desire to withdraw the Warehousing Bo for
for promoting the advancement of the Catholic emancipation t.
the present Session. He pledged himself, however, to bring this
fcnerally? In his opinion, it was more objectionable than if measure forward again
they were to do nothing, and it was his intention, for the tea- at an early period of the next Session.
Mr. RICARDO trusted the Hon. Member would persevere
sons he had stated, to vote for the Amendment to the question forward again he at the same time
before their Lordships—(Hear, hear). in bringing this measure t .
strongly recenustended that some particular attention should be:
Lord GRENVILLE said, the grounds on which the Noble paid to the Silk Trade in the new Bill.
Earl rested his opposition to this Bill, compelled him to enter his Mr. Bruce and Mr. Gamma. concurred in the recommends-
protest against them. lie set at nought all the statutes of our don of Mr. Ricardo.
ancestors if they were against justice. He should say, "Be just, Mr. WALLACE said, he would pay particular attention to
and fear not If it were the case of but one individual in the this subject.
country, and he the meanest instead of one of the highest in the The Bill was then ordered to be read a second time;this day
Ind, they ought not to deny him justice. 11. considered this as three months.
a measure of strict retributive justice; and if they refused to Lord A. HAMILTON postponed his motion relative to the
listen to the call of their fellow Peers, they were refusing that Representation of Scotch Counties till the next Session.
which would be of the utmost advantage to the country, and Mr. CANNING suggested the propriety of postponing the
would be continuing an act of gross and flagrant injustice, by still further progress of the Passage Vessel, Regulation Bill on as
keeping them from rights of which they bad been deprived by count of it great importance, and the advanced period of the
yerjury and infamous conspiracies--(Hear).—lt was one of the present Session, until Parliament should meet again.
greatest errors in legislation to fancy that they could smooth hit. LUSHINGTON expressed his readiness to adopt the
:may every unevenness in such a popular Constitution as this suggestion thrown out by kis Right Hen. Friend.
of ours. It was bard, however, to call on them to explain 'fie House went into a Committee on the Prison Laws Con-
why, in getting rid of one most flagrant evil, without trying satiation BM.
to get rid of what they believed to be a still more flagrant one. Lord FOLESTONE objected to. the Clause preventing Visit-
The passing, or not, of this Bill did not, in his opinion, alter that big Magistrates from having fns access to prisoners committed
great question which should give relief to the large body of their for political offences.
1 Catholic fellow-countrymen, a measure which was gaining ground The House divided—For the Clapse, 44—Against it, 10—
every day, and which ought nut to be delayed till another year. Majority, 14.
Ills opinion as to securities was the sante as last year; for seeing The Committee again divided on the Clause preventing Chap-
no danger from Catholic Emancipation, he should counsel neither taws having £2OO a.year of salary from holding any ether Church
the offer nor the demand for securities. He would advise the preferment.—TFoe the Clause, 21—Against it, it&
concessions to the Catholics to be made, as full and unrestrained On the Clause relating to the Chaplain's contrail. as to the
as possible, in order to tranquillize that part of the country, mode of instruction to be introduced into the prison, and by
which, GOD knows, required tranquillity so much. It would be which it was provided, that no person should be introduced
the very greatest hypocrisy in any supporter of this Bill to say into the prison to instruct the prisoners without the consent of
that he was not anxious for the passing of the great measure of the Chaplain,
Catholic Emancipation, for be who favoured this measure must Mr. Alderman WOOD moved to have the words a consent
in a still higher degree be desirous of seeing that great measure of the Chaplain" left out.
tarried throughout the Legislature. Those who opposed this Mr. M. A. TATLOS, Mr. F. Botrox, and others, supported
la enta,ure, declared their abhorrence of Titus Oates's perjuries; the Amendment.
F but they were determined to continue the wrongs that his sup- Mr. Pau, Mr. Houma% Mr. Consumer, and others, op-
panel, established : but let them remember, that in the eye of posed It.
reason and justice they were answerable for every moment that The Committee divided—For the Amendment, 54—Apinst
toy suffered this glaring injustice to be continued. If there It, 55—Majority against the Amendment, I.
Were a real Popish Plot, would the exclusion of six Catholic The different clauses were gone through, and the Report was
Peet. from Parliament be any security for King or People ordered to be received on Wednesday.
against it? Though whatever dangers threatened the country, Mr. GOULBU RN moved the Order of the Day for. the'
the Popish Lords and the Catholic population were the first to committee on the Irish Constables' Bill. .
'wet it, from the Reformation to the Revolution • and no security 1 Mr. G. LAMB, in the absence of so many Members, aelshedl
of any kind was obtained, nor any danger averted, by the Act of . the House to adjourn.
Elizabeth, allowing Catholic Peers to sit in Parliament. Let . Some conversation then took place, after which the Commie.
them recollect, that the unwillingness of some conspirators to tee was postpeoed to Monday.
ricritice one Catholi, Noklemaii, was the cause of the discovery In the Committee of Supply the sum of £lOO,OOO was voted
of a „ton diabolic,. lot as ever entered into the mind of man.— fur the employment of the Poor of Ir/4=4..7—Berm on Monday.
Ibv unhappy civil wars in King Charles the First** time did I 'Die other Orders of the Day were them disposed of, sad the
not originate in disputes between Catholics and Protestants, but House adjourned to Monday.