Star.
London, England, 1830-02-10 00:00:00

LORD ELLENDOROI'OII.II LETTER.

Lord DURHAM—My, lords. I so entirely concur with the
motion which has just been submitted, that I should not have
thought it necessary to have addressed your lordships on the present
occasion ; but I do think it would be a dereliction of duty to remain
silent respecting a circumstance to which I now beg to call your
lordship** attention. I think lam bound to give the noble lord an
opportunity of an explanation with triad to a document which has
circulated through the country, and has been a subject of ani-
madversion in another place. I beg to ask whether that document
is his? I will not enter into any observations now; but I
beg to call upon the noble lord to state, whether the letter to which
I have alluded, purporting to be addressed by him to Sir J. Mal-
colm, is his ?
Lord ELLENBO ROUGH agreed with the noble marquis(Lans.
down) opposite, on the vast importance of the subject, and he also
concurred with him in the necessity of having all the information
that could be obtained. With respect to the question put to me by
the noble baron (continued the noble lord.) I can only Si that,
when first my attention was called to the letter which is addreMed
to Sir John Malcolm. purporting to be written by me, 1 had no
recollection whatever of having written one of that nature. But I
have since read the letter, as it appeared in the newspapers, and
have no reason to doubt that substantially it is the same as the one
'written by rue (hear). But there are vatiations between the letter
published here Sand that published in India—variations of some
consequence. I can assure the noble lad, bad I again a confiden-
tial conimanication with Sir John Malcolm—an officer acting with
me—and had I the information given by that officer, I should act
as I have done. If I had taken any other course with respect to
Sir J. Dewar, and Sir William Seymour, than that which I did
follow, I feel that I should have deserted my duty, and have bean
unworthy the trust reposed in me.
Lord DURHAM.—The noble lord then avows the sentiments
expressed in the letter. At present I am not prepared to submit
any motion to the house on the subject; but I do regret that he
has avowed those sentiments. I can assure the noble lord that his
letter has made a great sensation among those who take a deep in-
terest in the affairs of India. I do regret that one of his majesty's
ministers should have expressed himself unfriendly to the indepen-
dam of the judges of India.—( Hear, near.) This, I sin sure, is a
matter of great regret to all wh3 take an interest in the affairs of
India. 1 shall not, however, my lords, enter into the subject now;
but this I will say, that it is a matter of the most serious surprise
to the people of this country. I repeat that Ido regret the noble
lard has not disavowed the sentiments contained in that letter
(Hear)—sentiments which, if they animated the rules respecting the
appointment of judges on this side the water, would be of men se-
rious detriment than any question which can affect our political re-
lations. As I said in the outset, I was not preparedto submit a
motion to your lordships on the subject ; but I considered it would
be a dereliction of my duty not to inquire whether the letter was
genuine.
The Duke of It' EbLINGTON—My lords, my noble friend
sitting near me has stated to your lordships, is answer to a question
put by the noble baron, that the letter alluded to is substantially tile
same as the one Le wrote. My noble friend is therefore hound to
the terms of it; but he is not bound by the opinions which others
may entertain respecting the sentiments contained in the letter. I
must say. my lords, that I do not find one word in that letter de-
rogatory to the independence of the judges. What are the semi-
ments. my lords, contained in the letter ?- -that certain judges in
India had not conducted themselves with discretion. If my noble
friend had known at that time the decision of the privy council—a
decision of the highest authority—he would have said, properly
enough, in conformity with that decision, that those judges had not
conducted themselves with discretion. My noble friend, in his let-
ter, considers that the judge who pronounced that decision might be
induced to revise his notions of law, but still he consi,lered him as
having acted with indiscretion. But what does my noble fiiend go
en to do ? Why, in effect, he says, " I will recommend the ap-
pointment of two discreet judges in the company of the indiscreet
judge." (Hear, and a laugh.) And this is to be construed into
'an attack upon the independence of the judges. (Hear.) Since this
transaction, the East India Company have applied to die privy coun-
cil to have that judge recalled. 'f he privy council have recom-
mended his Majesty to recall hint, to answer for his conduct in that
very transaction referred to in the letter. The noble baron blames
my noble friend for writing a private letter on such a subject as this.
It may be • matter of blame to introduce such topics into a private
letter; but, if every word and expression is to be male a subject of
censure or ridicule, it is scarcely possible for a minister to conduct
public business at all.
Lord DIM HANI—I really must confess that I entertained the
sentiments which I have already named, relating to the appointment
id the judges, and that I am confirmed In those sentiments by what
herroaurred out of the hours* Perhaps the noble duke has not seed
the letter.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—Yes, I have.
lard DURHAM—What is the first fact contained in the letter?
The Judge here spoken of is said "to have right notions of hie duty,
andel' the law, which has been so strangely misrepresented ; end
thee be will rather support government"—

The Duke of WELL! NOTON—Read on.
'Lord DURHAM (quiling)—Not the whole of the letter.
Lord ELLENBOROUOH—No, but the whole of the sentiment.
Lord DURHAM—The noble lord may, if he pleases, read the
whole of the letter. The sentence is this:—" He, Sir William Bey_
moor, will rather support govetoment than use the authority of the
supreme court as a means of raising opposition." (Hear, bear, from
the ministerial benches.) Then, in a subsequent passage, Sir J.
Grant is spoken of as not likely to cause any more utisehief, " tube
will be led (observcs.the letter,) like a wild elephant, away Is, tweets
two tame ones." This isassage has been made the subject of rid'.
ads, in which I do not myself, my lords, concur ; but I do think
the president of the Baud of Control ought not to have written melt
a letter as the one under discussion. If the sentiments contained in
it were Meg up to, a blow would be given to the hidepentlenes of
thejoikee. The advice In that letter is that the governor should be
.pled mithority over the judges--a circumstance not congenial
,with the hidings the to the law reapeedng the appointment of judges
VhmatilisliflLLlC thst, far hie own part he must de-
fame to slum In the baomm-if blame there was—
which bid Atm art epos Ms noble Need, as es the sentiments
abused be that letter, they kW peelliedy willeletent with ahem
which be Owed Melville) Yt. A greet eel d OPP*, bad been
biased le—wet by the odds bane (Lied Modulo) opposite, he
belted Misted the wiliest be a Miaow waimw-riosilay WM.
hob who hod spokes es the sublo:sen:e4 be dee be
W per-
oe my that lad of Wbulaw•m"
god, imprebs thee the judges that smog ommishl their sp.
=M his mew maisser as they did In ads. What were
lie the game ease t The jar reveldhis dries how the
gewasese of Ism. He was told. that be was wenwagliptbe. slid
Was
das lit new to 1 the getwormot
M wand On degisei sr
,Issnri
4 esa- thee &jet* ladle wet Wets
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support the governs :zet established there ? This was not a doctrine
to be maintained ; and there was high authority We asserting so—
lid& acts of parliament. The statute books. even so far back as half
a coml. bore him out in his assettion. The noble viscoum then
alludA in a general manner to the acts is which he bad referred. •
He further stated that some years ago the decree of the su;•rente
court of one of the precitlencies was attempted to be enforced by the
civil power. that the premix into faed with military force to
prevent such a proceeding. O that occasion what was done
by parliament ? Did they impeach the governor ? No, hut
they were nearly impeaching the Chief justice who had aced so
indiscreetly. (Hear, hear.) An act was passed by the legiss
lature in support of the goverment against such proceed-
ings of the judges. What was the case in Bombay in re-
ference "to the late affair there ? A writ of 'taken corps.. was
issued against —, a man of considerable influence. It was
urged that it could not be enforced consistently with public safety.
The writ was ordered to be suspended or stopped. What was to be
done by the learned judge on that °caution ? He shut tip his
cow, and thus justice was denied to all the natives. The noble
viscount was not so much disposed to quarrel with the learned judge
as to his opinions respecting the law as to the closing his court,
thereby stopping the current of justice. This was a case surely,
showing that the learned jndgc hind not, at least 4 a discreet mind
All that he (Lord Melville) contended for was this, that the judges
in India must be in accordance with government. In this country
he did not mean to assert that such a principle must exist. This
was the distinction between the two countries, which lie contended
ought to be maintained. Be concluded by stating that those who
supposed that the independence of the judges could be placed ten
the saute footing in India as in this country must make themselves
better acquainted with the subject, and the state of our East Inch t
possessions, before they attempted to legislate on such a measure.

Lord HOLLA ND could assure the noble viscount who had just
sat down, that, after addnssing the house in the manner he head
done at the commencement of his speech, he expected lie would turn
round on his noble friend )Lord Ellenairough), as to the style and
tenor of his letter. Instead of which, however, and instead of
directing the attention of their lotdshi, s to the chief point, the noble
viscount Val, in a very cleat zed *aria a ory n an- r, settled t e
question of law at issue between the ooveenment of his (morn at d
iodic. That. however, was not the point. The point wss the
objection Jogehistauch a latlor ham trideetteild •by ta,—.l`tegiadeill of
the based of central to a swarm in iodic. and that r's
mained still unenswered. The question of law was a loath tet
comparative insignificance It was the tenor and tone if the lett r
which he complained of, and sib eh seemed to impute Wants to ti.;
supreme court for presuming to act with independence. Ile ire t
say, however, that he could not speak with arcuracy on the mihject,
because be could net learn, from any thing that had fallen from the
noble lord, what part of she letter was authentic, and what was net.
This was a matter of great importance, not only to the public in 'hie
country, but in India. The part of the letter of which he chiefly
complained was this: " I believe there is but one opinion in this coo:..
try as to the conduct of the supreme court. Their law is conaidteed Lad
law; but their errors in matters of law are nothing in comparison with
those they have committed in the tenor of their speeches front its
bench." Now,what signified the tone of the bench in comperison t.f bad
law ? Yet the noble lad, as appeared from his letter, stated, in
substance, that it would be touch worse to touch the government,
event in reference to any illegal proceeding, than to administer toe
laws badly. Judging of the letter simply as it appeared and with.
out wishing to undertake the harsh office of commenting on tic
other objectionable parts of it, he would ask, was not the chief
question as to the administration of the law this—What impressitts
was this ratio anemia likely to produce on the people of India and
England ? Was it not likely that the impression would toe tl.at
there was an improper bias exercised in recommending itidivi.
duals to the office of judges in India? Any our who read dm
letter must see that the subserviency to the government would b. a
much letter recommendation for preferment than a C00,C.1 0-
tious and independent administration of justice. (Hear. hear.)
With regard to the letter, be would coy, that he would rather has-
read it, than divulged it; but, since it had been made public, he
had a right to ask, was It not evident that persons would be ap.
pointed to situations on the bench for qualities leas respectable t'.ari
legal knowledge and integrity ? He did not charge the noble lord
with such a disposition, but his letter leads to such a conclusion ;
and such would be its Impression on the minds of the people of
India, who must regard it as a great misfortune that they should
have such judges placed over them, in place of men to whom they
had been in the habit of looking up as their natural protectors
spinet power and crime. He would not say that judges were ap-
pointed from any such consideration; but, while the noble lord
makinot prove to the house and to the public that the letter was in-
correct, they could hardly come to any other conclusion. He was
ready to allow that the letter was private—at all events, that it was
a communication from one public officer to another ; but while ti.e
noble lard admits it, and admits that it was unfortunate that it had
transpired, he could say, that, if it was such as had been desctibed.
it was unfortunate for the people of India and the administration ..f
justice in that country.
Lewd ELLBNBtritOI.IOII said bethought be should be the last
man in that house, or in the coonay, who should be accused of the
smallest attempt to trench upon the independence a Judge.. Is
be incapable of such an act was that for which, he thought, all nisi,
who bad the slightest knowledge of him, would give lum the
ample credit. He had too strong &recollection of the high quail' it.
of his noble and learned father, not to respect the independence of
judges, and do all in his power for the maintenance and -preeerv...
tioo of that independence. Had he entertained the most
idea of subverting or weakening, or in any respect assailing use
independence of Judges in India, there could be no question uf
his deserving the severest' reprobation; bat of such conduct he
declared himself totally incapable. He was not opposed to the
independence of judges, but he was determined to resist their
usurpations. He was determined to resist any attempt they might
make to grasp at powers which were not given, but expressly
taken from them by the law. Power which, if his information
was to be depended on and he had no reason to doubt its accuracy,
could not be exercised without the most imminent danger to th.
tranquillity of India, and the stability of that influence which we
there possessed. Much needles. miportance had been attached
to the expression that legal errors were comparatively of little
importance; he would repeat and maintain that assertion ; they
were, comparatively, insignificant; errors in law were as nothing,
compared with the tame of language caning froth the
elevation of the Bench—proceeding from the lips of men
clothed, as it were, with royal authority, and directed against tie
executive government of the country. He could affirm to their
lordships, that unless the integrity of that government were main.
• tamed in insulated and unapt:reached power, British authority
could not be maintained In India. That authority depended upon
opinion, and it Gould not be maintained if exposed to cavil or liable
to obstruction.—. Again he would declare that the sentiments con.
tabled in that letter were such as he telt commanded to express by
his sense of public duty. As to the appointment which had been
trade the subject of animadvasion, he believed, if the qualiticatiotis
of the individual in question were inquired into, it would be fiend
that none need be better qualified than he was for filling that situation.
He made the fullest inquiry into that gentleman's character, and be
found it to be in all respects suited to the office. In the rates-
pondence held by him with the supreme government, be bad
displayed a complete possession of the legal knowledge r
gutted ; but not only did he possess the knowledge of law, but also
whatwas, if possible, of more importance—he possessed do.
cation which peculiarly fitted him for the situation of chief justice.
Influenced by such information, and decided by such evidence as
satisfied his mind of the perfect fitness of that gentleman, he hest.
tared not to offer his advice to his Majesty, recommending big au..
pointment ; that advice be certainly never should have given, had
be not been assured that the object of it was in an eminent degree
possessed of that discretion for which he gave him credit, and also
for that gentlemanly conduct which would impart dignity sad an-
te the di charge of his duties. In one of the interviews
co= be (Lard Elkaborough) had with that gentleman, he read a
passage from the writings of Sir William Jones, descriptive
of the duties of a judge, expressing his deliberate determination
to govern has conduct as a judge by the rules which Sir Williani
Jones laid down: Now, if be made as good a judge as Sir B'il.
Liam Jones wished to s, the house or the country would have
little reason to complain or the appointment. In a country situ-
ate as India was, nothing became of grata kuportance than
to omiototo the character of those who were charged with great re-
spoosibilky, and be submitted that such authority and patience
as was there sequired could never be maintained otherwise than
by resisting the Lush:once of one department with another.
The question on the appointment of the commute As then put
sad agreed Se.

TOOS LAWS.
Lord TEINHA3I moved for certain return respecting she
poor laws.
The Duke of WELLINGTON would not object to the returns,
but at the suns time could remind the noble lord that 'amnia re.
turns had bean moved far some yams op, and alter a year and 46
half bad elapsed, and the mums lad been made at • great expense,
be believed hardly any penes wok the trouble of Ineiitig 44 them.
There were no len than 4110110. parishes in kaglond, lo veldts
the muss, probably, them wenn hi many onlassw, and, after
all, a very somiikvable peeled duo elapse before sky could be laid
betty, the house. He meaftlied bemir- 'admit Is the noble lord the
14/T7 et wit ommtios.
hrDele of R hdraIICHMOND speed with what bad fallen *en
, dm noble dais, and times that the mums behave the boas were
wallicluat: If the setae Taei imosis ihe had were sisal higher
than k gigit, titre wee swilieleal posh of that es the table; and
the way to Iwit $ ma* we net to move fog** stiono. tat
to we impose Mb moisstyli gosonmewst whoi Chef *lbw itt in.
4617.101,410 dhows tr *JIM how& the MIL Nra
otos hoopatilmodl armies la ties
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II

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

notice
COM.
the

Mr. D. W. HARVEY moved for a return of the number of
persons holding stock in the public funds , specifying the sum pos-
sessed by each, and stating the amount of dividends payable thereon.
Ordered.

AIL O'CONNELL presented several petitions from parishes in
Cork, complaining of the vestry and subletting acts. The honour-
able member, after referring to the cases of the petitioners, for the
purpose of showing the great abases practised in levying of vestry
rates in parishes where a very small number of the inhabitants are
Protestants, concluded by giving notice of Ms intention to move for
the repeal of a portion of the act of George the Second, in order to
enlarge the power of the King's Bench in granting a esandatmts,
where the parishioners apply for it and complain of the levying of
such rates.—The petitions were then ordered to be printed..

CHANCIBILY.

On the motion of Mr. D. W. HARVIT a return presented last
year, of the number of eases unheard in the Court of Chancery, and
of the amount of property belonging to the suitors, was ordered to
be printed.

♦TtAIRI OP PORTUGAL.
Lord PALMERSTON gave notice of his intention to submit a
motion to the house relative to our relations with Portugal, on
Thursday, the 18th instant.

....„ Int. . . .• ,
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it. t
k's.7.ygLika.' 4111'
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b . I noble duke with regret. and on that occasion opposed
I.• ". r• ' . of public duty. The noble lord had better move
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for an inquiry into the distress of the country. He fully concurred
with the noble lord as to the distress of the agricultural poor, and
Wt t •eved it to be so bad that it could not long continue.
Lard TEYNHAM then withdrew his motion, and gave notice
t.: ..t. he would, on Tuesday, the 20th of April, move for a cam-
Loma of the whole house to inquire into the administration of the
pew hwe.—Adjourned at HALF-PAST Sr:.