Star.
London, England, 1815-04-26 00:00:00

TUE LATE TREATY OF VIENNA.

On. Mr. BROGDEN bringing up the Report of
the Committee of Supply,
Mr. WHITBREAD rose. He observed, that in
looking over the substance of the Treaty which the
Noble Lord opposite had just laid on the Table, he
found it had been declared by the Allies, that they
did not go to war for the purpose of imposing any
particular form of Government on the French people.
tie would ask the Noble Lord, was he to infer from
this that their object in going to war was to destroy
the power of Bonaparte ?
Lord CASTLEREAGH admitted, that it was the
object of the Allies who had signed that Treaty, to
destroy the power of Bonaparte, which they considered
as dangerous to the future tranquillity of Europe.
Mr. WHITBREAD—gg Am 1 then, Sir, to un-
derstand from the Noble Lord, that there is any en-
gagement on the part of the Allies not to make peace
with France, whilst Bonaparte is at the head of her
Government r'

Lord CASTLEREAGH replied, that the Allies
might dissolve any engagement which they had made
if they found it necessary, but certainly their object in
making it was to destroy the power of Bonaparte.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he had understood that,
at the time the Message of his Royal Highness the
Prince Regent came down, there was an alternative
of peace or war, but the documents now before him
would lead him to think that the alternative was
Lone by. He would wish to hear from the Noble
ord whether there was still any alternative

Lord CASTLEREAGH said, he could only an.
sorer the question of the Honourable Member by re-
peating what he had said before, that the Allies
might possibly be induced to dissolve that Treaty,
though he did not think it was probable they would.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he had put a plain
question ; but the Noble Lord had as usual given an
equivocal answer. It would rest with his Honoura-
ble Friends who had voted for the Address on a for-
mer evening to explain the Noble Lord's meaning ;
but be was firmly of opinion that we bad now no al-
ternative but war. It was- his wish that the House
should have some information on this most important
subject ; he wished that Ministers would do of them-
selves what the• Crown, he supposed, would do in a
short time. If this information were denied, he would
feel it his duty to take the sense of the House on it
some day in the week.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that at present he
could give no other information than he had stated ;
but the Honourable Member could, if he choir, take
the sense of the Ho ise on the Treaty.
Mr. TIERNEY wished to ask the Noble Lord
whether, in the late arrangements made with the
Allies, any engage rent was entered into on the part
of this ()overturn nt, to take from Russia a debt of two
millions and a hal•, which she had contracted with
Holland, and add i. to the debt of this country.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that under present
circumstances he e iuld give no answer to that ques"-
tion. ( Hear, ho.r?heurtfrom the Olphrilion Benebet.)
Mr. T IERNEY in asking the qu'estion, did not
mean to allude to any arrangements made for the un-
poiding war, but to any 1 tamer ones which were
made : he did not conceive lie wak premature in ask-
ing this question. The House had a right to know
whether the enormous sum of two millions and it

half was to be added to their present he ivy debt,
and to know, if it were, what equivalent was to be
given.' They should know what engagements had
been made to this effect.

Lind CASTLEREAGH would only say. that in
any engagement which had been made, there was not
one in which the honour and interest of this country
were not particularly consulted. (Hear, hear, hear.)
Mr. WHITBREAD then gave notice, that on
Friday next he would submit a motion to the House,
and take the sense of it, on the present state of this
country with regard to peace or war.
Mr. PONSONBY wished to ask the Noble Secre-
tary of State a question, as to the document at the
toot of this Treaty; by that it appeared, that it was
received on the .sth of this month ; that dispatches
were sent off relative to it on the Sill, and instruc-
tions given to Lord Clancarty to sign a subsidiary
Treaty. He would be anxious to learn what those
instructions were, on what grounds the subsidy was
to be given, and to what amount ? instructions to
this effect must have been given, for surely he would
not suppose that Lord Clancarty had got a power of
acting in this respect as he pleased.
Lord CASTLEREAGH did not know to what
extent the questions of Honourable Members on
the other side would extend ; he conceived the
only object of them could be, to give the House a
premature anticipation of matters which were not re-
gularly before them, but of which they would be in-
formed in due time; he did not see the propriety of
the questions, or of his answering them at that
moment.

Mr. PONSONBY contended, it was not improper
for him to ptit the questions, and for the Noble Lord
it, answer them—(Hear, hear).—lt appeared from
the documents then before the House, that some sub-
sidiary engagements had been entered into ; if so
they had g right to be informed what those engage.
menu were ; they went to bind the Crown to the
payment of certain sums, and if the House was not
informed of them time enough to judge of their
propriety, they would be reduced to the alternative,
when informed of them, either, by reftising to as-
sent to :hem, to bleak the faith of the *Crown, or,.
by granting them, to vote sums of which they did
not see the necessity..—(Hgar, hear.) '
Lord CAST LEREAOH said,• the putting, of
such questions tended to subvert. the Constitution by
' the power and, prerogative b the
Crown in making 'arrangemails with its Allies.
Mr. PONSONBY dented that *the queitions he
had put tended in' any vr4 'to subvert the constitti.
lion. • The Crown, it was itUel had a right to make
t •

peace of declare war, but It Lad no right to bind that
House to the payment of any turns of which they
'did not see the necessity. The system of the Noble
Lord and his colleagues went to establish this, they
first made the Treaty, and after it was ratified on
both sides, then and not till then they gave the Bane
some information by which they could be enabled to
judge of its propriety.—(Hear, hear.)
Lord CASTLEREAGH stated, that the charge
made on the Crown, of its pledging the House, was
not founded on fact. Foreign Powers themselves
never understood more, by our subsidiary engage.
ments, than that the Crown would recommend to
Parliament to grant supplies to the amount required.
(ficar, hear.)
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH understood the
Noble Lord to have given it as his opinion, that for
Ministers to state beforehand the amount of a Subsi-
diary Treaty, would be a subversion of the C mstitu-
tion.—( Hear, hear, awl No, no, from the Afinisterial side.)
The Report of Supply was then agreed to.
A long conversation then ensued between Mr.
WHITBREAD, Lord Ysiumourn, Mr. Ti 1.304 iw, and
Lord CASILERLAGII, relative to the commission under
which Lord Yarmouth, and John Nash, and Charles
Bicknell, Esqrs. exercised any authority as keepers
of the King's Park.
The SPEAKER having observed that there was
no question before the House,
Mr. WHITBREAD moved, that there be laid
before it copies of any commission, deed; or instru•
anent under which the above mentioned Nobleman
and Gentlemen exercised their authority.

This was negatived without a division.
BOVA 1. 110LsEl IGLU.

Sir CHARLES BURRELL rose, pursuint to
notice, to call the attention of the House to the sub-
ject of fees or gratuities taktoh by the inferior servants
of the Royal Household. This odious practice had
prevailed for a considerable time. Foreigners com-
plained, that every• thing in this country was to be
paid for, and even the Sovereign could not be seen
without a fee. Meritorious officers, who bad shed
their blood in the defence of their country, and had
gained the approbation of their Sovereign, Were not
exempted from the payment of vales. Under his Royal
Highness, as Prince of Wales, no such disgraceful
practice prevailed, and more attentive servants were
j never seen than those in Royal Highness's service.
The persons to whom he alluded as taking fees and ,
J 1 gratuities were those in' the Royal Household, the
marthalmen, groom-porters, and others. Being con-.
vinced that there could not be a dissentient voice to
doing away a practice so derogatory to the Crown,
and so disgraceful to the nation at large, he would.
conclude with moving, 66 That an humble Address
should be presented to his Royal Highness the Prince
Regent, praying that his Royal Highness would be-
graciously pleased to take into consideration so much
of the Report of the Committee appointed to enquite
into the Civil List in the years 1812 and 1813, as re-
lated to the modes of remunerating the.• interior ser-
vants of the royal household''
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
would not now oppose the motion, but would Lot
pledge himself to support it, if it was found that the
expense of providing for the servants would be too
heavy, which he feared would be the case.
After some observations from Mr. H. SUMNER and'
(Sir C. BunttEL, the Address was agreed to.