Star.
London, England, 1809-05-12 00:00:00

cols to observe that every Mettiber is prestrnsater _
a: all times present in his place. He looked.opan it
a; dangerous to depart from the practice of Pwlia,
went, in admitting oral information as the ground of
inquiries into alleged abuses.
Mr. Secretary CANNING agreed with what.fell
from the Chair, that Ote question was a double one,
and observed, that the latter part presumed that the
Honse had agreed to the former part. The first part
v.'s, whether the charge should be entertained at all ;
the latter, whether it shout! be heard on .a particular
day If the Honourable Gentleman altered his mo-
nn so as to put the question upon the first part, leav-
ing out the particular day, he could see no objection
to its being put in that forrx. He thought it compe-
tent to the Honourable Member to take the sense of
the House upon the question, whether the charge
should be entertained at all '
The precedent having been again read,.
Lord FOLKSTONE, as the House seemed to be
unanimous that the precedent should be adhered to,
expressed a hope that the precedent should be adhered
to strictly and precisely. It appeared by the precedent
that a list of the places only, not of the agents, or in-
strnMents, or witnesses, had been given to the parties.
Mr. MADOCKS then moved, that the matter of
the charge be heard at .the Bar.
The motion was seconded by Sir FRANCIS BUR-
DEN', Mr.Whithread having risen at the same time
!or that purpose. On the questicn being put,
Mr. CART WRIGHT begged to remind the Hon.
Mover, that he had said he was no party man, yet he
had but lately seconded a string of Resolutions out of
that House. He professed himself not unwilling to
enter into any scheme for the discovery and correction •
of abuses that was not violent ; but he was satisfied
in his own mind of the motives that induced the pre-
sent charges. It was said there was a general-feeling
in the country for a Parliamentary Reform, that he
denied, and brought as a proof, a late meeting near
Isilarchester, for the purpose of thanking Col. Wardle,
when 17 signed the requisition and 70 opposed it. If
there were points in• the Government to be corrected,
he hoped the House would go along with him in
thinking this was not the' proper time for it. What
had the French gained by their struggle for liberty ?
He contended that there was now more real liberty,
and equality in this country than at any former period.
Lord MILTON did not know whether in the ob-
servations of the Hon: Gendeman who had, just sat
down, that Hon. Gentleman bad a right view with
respect to the Hon. Gentleman who had brought for-
ward this motion, but certainly he had not a right
view with respect to those who should support his
motion in a modified form: If he bad thought that
this motion was an introduction to Parliamentary Re-
form, that Hon. Gentleman should not have been the
first to oppose it, as he himself should have had the
honour to object to it in
.;he first instance. He did
not think that any practical .benefit could result from
entertaining the question of Parliamentary Reform.
But there were circumstances attending this case which
demanieel PirlTWEfify Inquiry ; he meant the pal-
p:ible interference of Government with the votes of
individual Members of that House. This practice
W.li dangerous to the Constitution, if permitted. to be
continued. As to the other parts of the charge, he
ir old not impute any blame either to the Noble Lord
rr the Right Hon. Gentleman who had withdrawn.
Whether the whole were proved or not against them,
there was nothing criminal in these parts of the charge,
because all Governments had acted in the same man-
irT ; but the interference with the votes of individuals
was an abuse which might be productive of much
public inconvenience. He had considerable objection
to the proposition of the Hon. Member as it stood,
because they all could recollect the inconvenience at.
tending examinations at the Bar.. The inquiry might
be referred to a Parliamentary commission or to a
Committee above stairs. Though he should oppose
the motion in its present shaper yet, as. he thought the
charee ought to be entertained, he should move as an
amendment, "That the matter of the charge be re-
ferred to a Committee above stairs, and that they be
dsrected to report thereon."
air CHARLES MORGAN observed, that it was
the duty of every man to make a stand no*, sin sup.
per: of the dignity of that House, and of the happi-
7,?SS of the people. He did not wish to see every
~ablic man, who was at present, or may at any time
be employed in the administration of .Goiernment •
vilified and calumniated, and themselves thui rest
dercd incapable of serving their eiuhtry ; therefore
be should object to the motion.' Would the Hon.
Member stop here ? would he be satisfied with his
present victims ? Certainly not more, many more
wouLl be brought to be filtered through the vessel of
Reform. He did not wish to see a new order of
things ; he did not wish to see the valuable time of
-hat House taken up in censorial proceedings against
several of its own Members, instead of being engaged
forwarding the public business. He had heard
much of the sense of the people. No man valued
the approbation of the people more than he did, or
I,:gretted their disapprobation more; but this was a
case in which he could not suffer himself to be influ.
tnced by any thing but his own. impressions. • He
should, therefore, give the Motion his decided nega.

Sir JOHN ANSTRUTHER considered the pre-
sent proceeding as one which might be carried on
against any Executive Government, whethtr it was
good or bad. The Hon. Gentleman who brought
-onward the present Motion had said that he was no
party man. There was, however, a party in that
leculiarkind, who did not wish well to
description of men; who were above
and there could be no doubt that the
'the Hon. Gentleman were somewhat in
that party. The Hon. Gentleman had
should begin wish the Borough of Ca-
first in the catalog's •of abuses he was
ig forward ; but after he should do that,
matter of curiosity to know where he
;top. Was he to rto all other cases in
light suppose the influence of Ministers
Tied. He would call for a Committee
and a Committee on that point, and all
are ground of what he called informs=
y him to the House; founded on prece-
did not apply. But, for his own
intend that this proceeding of the Ahlot.
did not ;n the slightest degree tend to.
a Parliamentary Iteform, but, on thecon-
,cta Patliatnentary destruction. He did
tad what the Hon. Gentleman meant by

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