Star.
London, England, 1822-07-18 00:00:00

MASSACRE OF THE GREEKS.

The Earl GROSVENOR rose to bring forward
the motion of which he had given notice on Monday
last, and he hoped in doing so, that he should be
able to induce Ministers to alter the line of policy
they had hitherto adopted respecting the Greeks.—
Their Lordships and the other House of Parliament
had been for some time occupied in investigating the
distresses of the Agriculturists and of the Irish pea-
sants. They had also been occupied in investigating
the disgraceful traffic in slaves, with a view oti en,
deavouring to prevent the other nations of Europe
from carrying it on ; and it was lamentable to think
that they had not put an end to that horrible traffic.
It their Lordships, then, had been occupied in those
benevolent purposes, it was surely their duty to. take
into consideration the state of those unfortunate
people who were now so cruelly oppressed by the
Turks, and put an end to the horrors under which
they suffered. It was not necessary now to consider.
what was the cause of the war carried on between
the Turks and Greeks—whether it was the result of
a spontaneous and involuntary impulse to shake off
a detested tyranny, or whether it had been secretly
urged on by Russia. Whatever was the case, it was
well known that the horrible warfare did exist; and
some step ought to be taken by this Goverilnient for.
putting an end to it, He did not now propose any
inquiry into the state of the negotiations between
Russia and Turkey, nor into any other extraneous
matter, but confine himself simply to one object.—
Their Lordships must all be aware of the horrible
massacre that had taken place at Scio ; and that
after the cruelties perpetrated on an unoffending
people, the hostages at Scio and Constantinople were
put to death. As soon as it was known that hostili-
ties were nor likely to take place between Russia and
Turkey, that moinent was chosen. by the Govern-
ment of the latter country for perpetrating the hor-
rible act of executing the hostages. It had been said
that the Minister nom England, as well as other
Ministers, had made a representation to the Porte on
this subject, expressive of a hope that the execution
might not take place, and that the 'English Minister I
had obtained a pledge that the hostages should not I
be molested ; but this was afterwards disregarded,
He would not say that an act of this kind on the
part of the Turkish Government was a came of war;'
but it was an act which would justify England and ;
all Europe in withholding all communication with'
Iso detested a Government ; but, indeed, he believed
that all the horrors in question originated with the

•
The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed that,. when.
ever anything occurred in a foreign country which
..
affected the interest or honour of our own—whether
the same happened through error or intentior
might be all& ground for Parliamentary inquiry and
explanation. But -he wished the House to see how-
the question now stood. A dreadful act had certainly. •
been committed by .the Twits; but what right had
the British Government to interfere with respect tO
the conduct of a foreign Power towards its own sub-
jects? • If such a principle were to be maintained, he•
wished their Lordships to consider how far it would:
go. A Member of Parliao ent might move for an
account of the events which had taken place in Spain
and. in France. • Then, with regard to our own coun•i•
try, in case of a rising of the People here, and of
great tyranny exercised by our Government, in en-
deavouring to suppress the -insurgents, what would.
their Lorchhips say to the Ministry in France, or any
other country, who should call upon our Government'
for an explanation of its conduct ? Where, he would:
ask, was such interference as this to end ? He had
always held the opinion, that cases might occur in
which this country would be justified in interfering,
when such cases involved our own interests. Hut he
never knew that one country had a right to interfere
upon a question at issue between the Government and.
the subjects of another country. Lord StrangtOrd,
ur Minis;er at Constantinople, might, from motives'
of benevolence, have tiled to exer• his influence to;
avert the dreadful evil in question ; but he could not
have done so on any gibund of light ; and if any in-
teiference,had taken place on.his part, the present
motion, it agreed to, would only serve to prevent a
similar interference in future from being attended
with any effect. If Lord Strangford• iiite: lered, it
was solely on the ground of humanity. The inter-
ference respecting the ' Slave Trade, to w hich the
Noble Lord had alluded, was. one of a very different,
nature. It did not relate to the conduct of a Govern,
ment towai ds its subjects : it was n.eiely an applica-
tion on our part to foreign Powers, requiring as con-:
ditions annexed to the treaties we were entering into
with them, that they should prohibit their subjects
from carrying on a trade in _slaves. Those who
talked so much of the horrors committed' by the.
Tui ks, should recollect that the Greeks had been
guilty of horrible cruelties ; and that at Scio the first
horrors had been committed by them. He should not-
enter into any discussion of the question whether the
'finks should be driven out of Europe into Asia ? but
he would maintain that with regard to us they had
observed the stn ictest neutrality. As to the frigate:
alluded to by the Noble Ea;l, he would inform the
House that a vessel came to this country which hid,
once been a Turkili•liigate ; this vessel belongei to
the Paella of Egypt, and had been sent to this coun-
try befine the Greek insurrection, pat tly laden with•
meichandize, and partly with curiositics. for the Bri-
tish Museum. The vessel stopped bete for the pur-,
pose of obtaining some repairs : these, together with
refreshments, were allowed to the parties on board;
but when they applied for arms and warlike stores,.
they were refused. This was all the ground ofcharge
which the Noble Lord could bring against the Govern-
ment as to having been favourable to the Tug ks. •
Lord HOLLAND said the Noble Earl had misun-
derstood his Noble Friend's motion, which did net
call for interference, but simply for a copy of a (Rs:.
I patch from our Minister at Constantinople. A similar
motion had been made respecting the transactions in
Naples. When Ministers agreed to produce the dis-
patches
of air William A'Court, his Noble Friend did
not propose to call any one to account ; he merely
asked if our Ministers had given a guarantee for the
'safety of certain unfortunate hostages ;:and lais Noble
Friend had a right to ask for intorination on that
point, There was no man in this 'country who did
not feel interested in the contest now going on in
Oreece, and if a suspicion existed that our Govern.
ment were favourable to the Turks, it was very pm.
rer to call for such inllnination as should either con-
' firm or remove that suspicion. Indeed, the country
• was indebted to his Noble Friend for bringing fors
ward this motion, because it drew from the Noble
Earl opposite that very sati
*factor explanation which

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he had given respecting the Turkish fritate. tut, L,
besides this, the country wished to know what the
real transaction was to which the motion alluded,
because it prevailed that the guarantee of our MI-
L
nisker Ida been,. Ocular the safety of the Greek
ha
di,l
.11010—"C1141! ' • - •
tanvßl ir—.oNo such guarantee ever
teas, or ever could be given l"
The motion was then put and negatived.
Hula GRAND JURIES.
On the third residing of the Irish Grand Jury Pre-
sent:meat Bill, .
The "Earl of DONOUG HMO R E objected to it, on
the grounds he had alteady stated. He thought the
-House was nut sufficiently informed on the subject,
and therefore he thought it ought to be postponed
until the nest Session of Parliament. His Lordship
then stated ,the scale-of allowances made to the dif-
ferent officers in Ireland, which were to be paid out
of the County Rate:, and which would be wholly it et,
adequate to their services. The Grand Juries were
altogether precluded. from grantinpanything beyond
a cei tans sum. The Noble Earl concluded with
moving that the Bill be lead a third time this day
three months.
The Earl of BLESINTON was against any delay;
and therefore would vote for the passing of the Bill
in the present Session. As to the salaries of Clerks of
the Crown, he thought they were sufficient.
The LORD -CHANCELLOR observed that the
Bill went to dispose of the salaries of patent offices,
which were vested rights, and to take away such
emoluments without notice, and that this was con-
trary to all the principles on which Parliament had
ever before acted. He had, on a former day 4 pre-
sented Petitions against the Bill ; and, if the contents
of the Petitions were true, the Bill would cause an
act of great hardship and injustice to take place.
The Earl of LIMERICK said, that one of the
greatest grievances under which Ireland laboured,
was the gross and oppressive exactions of Grand
Juries, and the system of disgraceful jobbing which
always took place in consequence of the power they
possessed: As to Clerks of the Crown, many of them
had salaries amounting to thousands each year, for
which they were in the habit of Making shameful ex-
tortions from bills of indictment ; therefore bethought
this Bill ought to be adopted.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he fully agreed
to the principle of this Bill, because it was absolutely
necessary to put a step to the excessive. power of
Grand Juries in Ireland ; yet as the Bill was not to
begin to talc effect until the lit of March nest, he
did not see what necessity there was for passing it
now ; and if it was put off for three months, he now
pledged himself to bring forward this measure early
in ,the next Session of Parliament—(icar).
The Marquis of LA NSDOWN agreed that this Bill
ought not to affect the patent rights of officers; but
ii. was absolutely necessary to put a stop to the abuies
of Grand Juries, who granted to the officers What-
ever Slims they chose. He should be sorry if a doubt
existed as to any indisposition on the part of the
House, to check such abuses; after what had been
stated, however, he should not object to putting off
the Bill for three months.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, if this Bill
passed in its present form, the officers would be left
without salaries.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, if the Bill was
now put off, he should have no objection to support
a Resolution pledging the House to bring it forward
next Session—(Hear, heat).
Lord lZ EDESDALE opposed the Bill on the same
ground with the Lord Chancellor.
The FAH of LIMERICK said, he did not see any
necessity whatever for the Resolution alluded to by
the Noble Earl.
Lord HOLLAND said, his Noble Friend (Lord
Lansdown) would move such a Resolution on Friday.

aware of k
the Hasse
"by the
Mr.

E

`7llPll,_

Aho -
other from the
Chapel
?Jr. F. BUXTON p. _
against the Sale of Beer Uprising
the proper occasion arrive& that t. - oPlioodwi
and the cruelest nibasure that ever was brought into Parlament.
klelitlerman WOOD presented several Petitions to the
Mine offset from individuals who were his Constituents.
Sir P.. HARVEY presented seven Petitions to the woe
meet, from various towna. .
Mr. C. CA LVE RT. presented a Petition from the inhablennall
of Holloway and Kentish Town, against the Highgate Child
.11110.—Referred to the Committee. - •
Mr. VA NSITTART presented a Petition against the Bent
NI from Hereford.
ifir. BUTTERWORTH presented amilar Petitions frail.
Gosport, Portsmouth, and Pongee.
• Ildr. lIUME presented 'a Petition from Henri! Constantine
Jennings, complaining of ate exclusive privilegesojeyed by. the
Universities of printing Bibles, and praying that the subject may
receive the esely attention of Parliament—To he printed.
Mr. T.. WILSON presented a Petition from the Licensed
'Victuallers of the City of London against the Beer Bill.
• Also a Petition front the Ship-owners of the Port of Louden,
complaining of some provisions in the Stamp Aet.—Ordered to
be printed.
Mr. G. BENNET presented live Petitions from various in-
dividnab against the Beer Bill. •
Mr. HOBHOUSE presented Petitions of thesanie character.
Also a Petition from au individual complaining of delays is
the Insolvent Debtors' Court, and that there was no appeal from
its decisinaa.—Ordered to he upon the table.
Dr. LUSHINOTON presented a Petition from an individual
in the County of Kent against the Beer Bill.
Mr. MARERLY presented a like Petition from Abingdon.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a Petition from Thomas Dou-
glas, complaining of ill-treatment by the Victualling Deparuirt.
--Ordered to lie upon the table.
A Message from the Peers announced their Lordships' assent
to the small News Bill, and several ethers.
PETITIONS ON THE SEER BILL.
Mr. F. PALMER presented a Petition from the Inhabitants
of Reading, in favour of the Beer Bill. The Petitioner
pressed a hope that his Hon. and Learned Friend would perse-
vere with his measure, even though he should lose it in the pre.

therefore not responsible in that respect. The letter
carried upon the face of it the-proof that it was not
of recent date, and warranted the copelusion that it
*as addressed to a.person whoodthough he had since
become a Judge, was then in practice as a Barrister.
Sir GEORGE HILL wished to tike this opportu-
nity of asking the Hon. and Learned Gentleman if
he had not received a communication fromu distin-
guished Roman C,atholic Gentleman, relating to the
public notice of this letter?.
Mr. BROUGHAM was at a loss to know by what
right the Hon. Baronet questioned him upon. airycommußication he.rnight have held with any pentle-
man—(Hear, hear)—whether distingiiished or Ob-,,
*sure, Roman Catholic or PrOteetant. But if it would
gratify the Hon.l3aror.et's curiosity—lie would not
say his illaudable curiosity-r=he would tell him that
he had held no communication with anyone, direct
or indifect, upon the subject of this letter. He stated
at the tinie When he first mentioned it, that he had
no other knowledge of the matter than, his havint,
,seen the letter published in a public paper. He tbe*s
,thought it indispensable that it should come under
the notice of the House; but as long as it had been
confined to private circles he should not have de.--
such a course necessary.

Mr. R. MARTIN wished to say a few words twits
the Petition, which he considered to be one of great
importance. He was most happy to hear both sides
of the House join in reprobating these annual out-
rages, and he was particularly grateful to the Right.
Hon. Gentleman for the manner in which he had
.spoken of thew. With regard to what had been said
by the Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Hill) as to the provoca-
tion arising on both sides, he begged to give that a
moat unqualified contradiction, without meaning the
slightest disrespect—(A laugh). He would, in a
very few words, convince the House that what he
said upon this subject must be the truth—(A laugh).
It was chiefly in the North of Ireland that these
Orange Processions were carried on, and there the
mass of the inhabitants were Protestants. The only
object, therefore, was to annoy and outrage the few
Catholics who lived among them. In the County
which he had the honour to represent, the proportion
of the Catholic population to that of the Protestants
was as 50 or 60 to one. Yet be had never heard a
toast given that was offensive to the Protestants, nor
seen anything done to hurt their feelings—(Hear.)
The Petition was ordered to be printed.

BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.
The Order of the Day for the attendance of Mr.
Hope and Mr. Menzies being read,
Mr. W. COURTENAY moved id That Mr. Hope
be now called in."

The motion being agreed to, Mr. Hoek made his
appearance atihe bar of the House.
The SPEAKER—" Mr. Hope, I have to inform
you, that on the 9th of July a complaint_was made
to this Horne, that a letter had been addressed to an
Hon. Member, taking notice of a speech delivered
by him in this House, when certain passages of the
letter were read, and declared to be a breach of the
privileges of Parliament. Have the goodness to look
at that letter, and state whether it was written by you."
Mr. HOPg replied in the affirmative.
The SPEAK ER—" The House came to a Resolu.
tion that the said printed letter was a Breach of its
Privileges, and ordered you to attend here this days
If you have anything to say in explanation of the
contents of that letter, now is the time at which you
are allowed to do so."

lar. Hots then addressed the House. He com-
flanked by begging to thank the House foe the op-
portunity which it had afforded him of explaining
the causes which luid placed him in his present situa-
tion. In doing so it was not his wish or purpose to
state anything which Would be. at 'variance with the
Resolution to which the House had come, as he was
fully sensible that the letter which he had found it
necessary to write was a breach of its established pri-
vileges. But he hoped that many circumstances
would induce the House to consider it rather as a
technical infringement of its forms than as a serious
and meditated attack upon its privileges and au-
thority. Every view which he entertained of the
character of the House would forbid his taking such
a step ; regarding as he did such privileges, to be no
less the privileges of the People than of the House.
Every one, he thought, must own that he Mad been
placed in a cruel situation; and 'tower= painful to
his feelings, the only course which he thought he
could take was that direct attempt to vindicate his
honour and his character. He hoped the House
would have regard to the circumstances under which
that course was adopted, and to the state of his feel-
ings at the time he committed the act which placed
him in the situation of an offender against its privi-
leges. He wished the House to be aware that he did
not publish the letter with an intention to call its au-
thority in question, but solely with a view to vindicate
his professional character from an unfounded and un-
just attack. The charges were of a most serious cha-
racter. 'They were those of a malicious prosecution,
and a violation of professional duties. It was said
that he instituted a prosecution against an individual
without intending to pursue it, and that, too, for the
purpose of prejudging the case of one who was about
to stand his trial for life or death. The accusation
imputed to him, that in the support of certain views,
be had engaged in carrying them on with a degree
of furious zeal, with inveterate malignity,k and even
with personal hatred. That to indulge those feelings
as an advocate, he hid supported acts which must
lead to murder and bloodshed. It imputed to him,
in short, the absence of all those qualities, without
which no Counsel could claim or expect the public
confidence, and without which no Gentleman could

be respected or tolerated in society. Need he say
that such imputations were injurious to his feelings;
need he say that such imputations were injurious to
his private reputation ; need he say that such impu-
tations were injurious to his 'professional character,
and calculated to withdraw from him as a young
man that prospect of honour and distinction to which
he naturally looked with anxiety. And what cause
existed for such imputations? .He never was Counsel,
in the cause to which they alluded. He most pro.

Dm of the parties
Member did who made• die
ignorant of the
hit signature
the House.
practice
without
these c;""

with perfect confii___
"him 'to see tech
character. and destroy;
man—he would
see such imputations
without feeling ,
urged to take the most s
self from the dishonour
kit any wanton desire
the House, but in t.
ratter. Under these
whole or these inn.
mistatethent of facts
niiscorUeption), 'he v
,kaed that he should
tradicting them
through whiCh they
'Besides the public
cited against him,
asialCh 'fie 'Misled,
'knowledge of the $
and, unqueitionably t.
Of all, would be that of
a' friend who mourned, or a polkieil foe who tri,
.umphed in his degradation. Unifier all the cilLunt.
stances of the case, he trusted the House would sir a
reasonable cause for the irritation under which the
breach of their privileges was committed. the
warmth of feeling which he had displayed, he thought
he should not be required to say much in its defence
when he was addressing Enlist Gentlemen. It
would not be a matter of surprise that a British Cou:I.
senor and a British Gentleman should feel warmth
when repelling an unjust attack upon his character
and honour. He desired to express his sincere regret
that ,the means' be had found necessary to take for
that purpose had placed him in the situation of having
violated the privileges of the House of Commons ;
and not deprecating from personal feelings any con-
sequences which might follow, Ira relied with pet feet
confidence upon that House for receiviv substantial
justice at its hands.
The speech was followed by loud and continued
cheering.—Mr. Hope was ordered to withdraw.
Sir K. WILSON rose to order, amidst' loud calls
upon Mr. Courtenay.
The SPEAKER decided that the /lons Member
was entitled to speak to a point of order. t
Sir R.' WILSON said, that he had never been more
shocked than at hearing the cheers in which Honour-
able Members opposite had thought riles- to in.
dulge, in approbation of what had been said at the
bar. They were assembled there as judges, siad by
such expressions of their feelings, Gentlemen ten-
dered themselves parties in the case at issue. It was
impossible to expect that impartial justice should be
done when such conduct was observed.
Mr. W. COURTENAY moved,
4' That Mr. Hope, having acknowledged himself to he the
author of the said letter, is guilty of a breach of the privileges of
this House"
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT continued to ententaia
the opinion which he had ays expressed as to the
great 'danger which existed in this assumption. of
power by the House of Commons. He had never :.et
heard of anything to do away with the strong •
stitutional objections which he saw opposeid to 1(16
acts. In the present case he could not see !I'M, it was
possible to exercise the 'power which the House
'claimed, without allowing that every man in the
Country was to be subjected to whatever ant.ttrr
might choose to say tit` him in that flume witholt
replying to it, or even to the mistakes of those who
gave their debates to the Pub*. or. still more the
most malignant represeriatiOns Witieh Person's might
think proper to make. He begged` to ask wheti:er
such a power would he allowed to the Crow n as ;lilt
claimed by Parliament, incases which it might che.e
to declare breiches of privilege? But he could nct
see how the case now before them was a breach of
any part of the privileges which they claimed. The
party stated that a report of a speech had appeared
which traduced and injured his character, and con-
sequently proceeded to declare such a report to be
false. If this was a breach of privilege they woe
suffering them to be committed eve' y day, and re
man was safe who referred to anything that was said
or done in Parliament—( Hear, /.ear).—lf any one
were to apply directly to a Member to call hint tJ
account for anything which be might have done in
the discharge of his duty, and he brought the matter
before the House, then he confessed he should see
a justifiable ground for interference. It was muss
mohstrous that they should act as Judge and Jury
in their own cause—that they should examine the
accused, compel him to answer, and then deal out
law and punishment. This was the privilege of which
Cicero complained—
Vetant loges sacratz vetant duodecim tabula legm ptivaiis
bominihus irrogari ;id enim est privilegisem. Nemo unqusra
talk nibil est crudelius, nihil pernicimius, nihU quod %Moils hisc
(deltas ferre possit. Prostriptionis miserrimum nonarqi illud, e:
emnis acerbitas Syllaai temporis quid hahrt quod,maiunt 1:
insigne ad memoriam crudelitatis ? Opinor, roman in cive,
Romano, nominating, sine judicio cunstitutam.
The original intention of guarding Parliament with
privileges, was to provide them a shield against the
power of the Crown in the free discharge of their duty;
but not to arm them with a sword against their feilosw
subjects. The power which they claimed wa,
itself an anomaly ; for they proceeded to inflict im-
prisonment, yet they did not presume to rests: t i 4)
the minor punishment of fine. The Gentleman who
had been before the House said that the statements
made against him were untrue. In that case he had
a tight to complain of his friends,who'had preventeJ
inquiry where his innocence and the &Isehood ot the
charges might have been proved. His lion. 3111
Learned Friend, as he thought, had Urania to' w
the affair in the most unexceptionable, as well AN in
the most able manner. It appealed to him, that A
breach of privilege in such matters as these, w ould
consist of an intention of committing, or of ith,:ing
others to commit, violence. He did not really (Inas
that there had been a breach of the privileges, even
such as the House assumed its privileges to be. Tilt
power in question was such as the Law did n.,t .olow
to the King; and it was,, therefore, most unbecoming
in that-House to apsnme such power to itself—(Hearl-
This consideration was more obvious, when it was

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gtali • • awaibilatal lift:1011/1AURN said, that in. thitsOreer hi hably knew TIM
ik
'all. . dillb
`that he had seen nothling.ia tlastleiter, either in the vats utterly lei
. BYNOll==dialloir a •
ha a Petition froli& libabitaats and a- nature of its contents swim the moaner of its pubis which had hit s
from the paciett Clerk g St. Ilanoto, the Hiabpte cation, salibrding grounsinpon which he should lilies debate of the H
ri NlL—Referred to a Coalmines. • been justified in callinigt upon the Gentleman whom ing to the praot
.. F. BUXTON presented • Petkloa from a Publican Advocate, witi
a the Sale a Beer Lousing pia. He Imam dew, when name it bore for any eftplastation. He was not. now
_ ._ —.. .. 2 .t.--c--- ........naikle, in that respect. The letter
miner aceasion arrivat that this was the molt oppreeskve connected in any way with the Government, and was Under these cir
with perfect cc

• -
•
of the rem Mum& in it than
r did who made die cis fit
aunt of the contents of rise papers
:nature to them, asalladed to in the
lose. He signed the papers 'cast&
:e of the Scotch Coarts for a brother
tat knowing say,. their-soi meaty.
urnstances irotddlitk the House
"dente, whether it was possible for
nil:4Bl6oM prelltaltaLd
:straying his cheracter as a Geaue.
con‘dentiy:sisk, whether be oak
ions circulated by the Public Press
some warmth, and. without being
most decisivemeens oft ',hair% him.
honour ? He didnot recur to them
lesire of violating the privileges Of
n the necessary defence of his chs...
hese circumstances, feeling that the
niputatiOns were made upon a total
facts (proceeding, no 'doubt, from
'he would ask bow it could be ex-
should be able to refrain *from con..
by means of the same channel
hey were disseminated to the Public?
is feeling which must have been ea.
n, in the narrow circle of socicy in
',every one would meet him with a
be charges cast upon his character;
tbly to him, the most painful iceling
that of seeing io every man he met,
ourned, or a political foe who tri, • •
legradation. Under all the cntont-
se, he trusted the House would sue a
for the irritatios under which the
rivileges was committed. As t., the •
g which he had divplayed,hethongiit •;1