Star.
London, England, 1813-05-14 00:00:00

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.

Mr. GRATTAN moved the Order of the Day
for the second reading of the Bill for the Relief of
the Irish Roman Catholics.
Dr. DUIGENAN said, this was a 10 the red.
storation of the Catholic Religion, and he might say,
the Pope also, sued for by the Catholics themselves,
and supported by the Petitions of misty who caNtl
themselves Protestants. The Right Hoe. Mover of
the Bill had presented a Petition from three thousand
Protestants of Ireland, in favour of the 414
while, on the other hand, Petitions from 1111:asil
country, signed by more than one hundred thousand
respectable Protestants, had been presented against it.
To the first of these Petitions, and which prayed for
unconditional emancipation, he saw the signatures of
many most respectable Gentlemen ; but these, he was
sorry to say, were associated with the names of some
of those revolutionary persons who had formerly trou-
bled the Government of their native country. The
scheme which the Bill proposed to carry into execu-
tion appeared to be the same which was projected by
James the Second, when he was ambitious of intro-
ducing the Catholic Religion into England, and
which was endeavoured to be supported from the fal-
lacious arguments of conciliation. James, in the pur-
suit *of his favourite measure, lost his Crown, and that
too from evils which were likey to be created again
by the present measure. How then could this latter
scheme be a just one ? If James was unjustly de-
throned, the person who succeeded hint was unjustly.'
crowned : what then became of his present Majesty's
title ?—The scheme, however, seemed to be but little
understood by the House ; and he would proceed to
spew them, from the religious principles of the lit).
man Catholics, that all idea of conciliation was fal-
lacious, and that their tenets could not be rela:ed,
abated, mollified, or changed. They held it in their
decrees as unchangeable doctrine, to hold no faith
with heretics, but exterminate them by all means in
their power. They venerated that denunciation like
the sacred Scriptures—with them it seas immutable
and fixed. The present Professor of Divinity in the
College of Maynooth held, that the decrees of the
Pope, when not dissented from by the Dish )ps, were
equally binding as an Act of Council. He would,
therefore, call the attention of the House to these
acts of Council, which were decreed to be unchange-
able. The first Council of_Lateraa, which was held
in the year 1215, decreed, that when any temporal
Lord or Prince denied the supremacy of the Pope,
their subjects were to be absolvel from their oath of
allegiance, and other Princes were commanded to
conquer their territories and rep in their stead.—
That early decree was held by the Catholics of the
present day to be as immutable as the word of Gob;
and their inability to the task alone prevented them
from fulfilling it—(if harsh.) When the Bishops were
consecrated, they swore to obey St. Peter, and the
Pope, and the Church of Rome—to prevent any en-
croachments on the regality of St. Peter, and which
they were by all lawful means to defend, augment,
and promote. Part of that oath, (if he might credit
the bare assertion of Dr. Troy,) was dispensed with
by the application of the Empress of Russia : be that
circumstance as it might, he begged the 1 iouse to
hold that oath ill their mind, when they proceeded to
consider the principles of the Dill; and they might
also reflect upon an oath of a similar kind taken by.
the Clergy, and which was the strongest oath of alle-
giance that human ingenuity could devise. He next
,came to consider the decrees of the Council of Con-
stance, which were touched upon by the Theological
Professor of Maynooth, in the lectures which he gave
to his pupils. That Council was held from 1441 to
1418, and John Huss and Jerome of Prague were
declared and treated as heretics, and all oaths and
obligations with such persons were declared null and
void, inasmuch as they might be prejudicial to the
Church. Such being the Decrees of the Council of
Constance, he proceeded next to the Council of Trent,
which commenced during the year 1545, and conti-
nued till 1563. They confirmed the Decrees of the
preceding Council, and prepared a compendium of
the Decrees of the Council of Lateran, which a Lear-
ned Gentleman some years ago declared to be a most
valuable regulation. They professed not to burn the
heretics; for the Church never shed blood—they only
turned them over to the secular arm, which finished
'what the Church had begun. The House would
perceive that the Catholics admitted the supremacy
of a foreign Potentate, from whom it was impossible
to remove a great share of spiritual power ; never-
theless they refused to have the oath of supremacy
• administered 'to them by the Government of their
own country, determining rather to have no privi.

leges,,svhatevet, than procure them by such a course.
Thit refusal they made use of to shew their great vene-
ration for an oath ; but really he did not perceive how
they had any reason to be so scrupulous ; for the
oaths which they took with heretics the Pope had de-
clared were not binding; and besides, they knew that
they were not permitted to keep them, because the
decree which he had already mentioned released
them from all such bonds. They valued Decrees
according to their antiquity, and to forsake a point
of ancient faith was esteemed a mortal an. Their
slavery to the Pope was an open, notorious, undeni-
able doctrine, for he had with his own hand extracted
it from their books of theology. The people were
slaves to their Clergy, the Clergy were slaves to their
Bishops, the Bishops in their turn were slaves to the
Pope, and the Successor of St. Peter was himself be-
come the slave of Bonaparte ! This conqueror had
declared, (according to the Moniteur) sometime dur-
ing the year 1809, that it was unsafe to allow any
foreign Bishop to have any influence in his dotni-
salons, fur they had employed their spiritual power
to injure him; and he conceived that the spiritual
Superiority of a foreign Prince was hurtful to die
glory of France. Such was iionapartes opinion
concerning spiritual influence; and he had since ,
decreed, that the Pope should live is France,
from whence he would not suffer him to depart.—
Now
the present Bill. took no notice of that influence,l
there were no restrictions proposed to be pliced on ,
Romish Bishops or on Romish Priests. It would be
of more use to Bonaparte to have the Bill pasted ;
than the overthrow of armies on the Continent, for
he would be able to overcome the nation by it. He
would cause his pensioned Pope to nominate what
Bishops he pleased; these Bishops held the Clergy
in subjection, who, in their turn, swayed the people,
and all would go well for our enemies. Bonaparte,
however, took upon himself the nomination of
Bishops, and he had taken care that they should not
ordain a single Priest who was not recommended by
the Prefect of the province. In England they were
desirous to place the Pope on one side of the Throne,
and make him as it were a partner in the Govern-
ment, and confer upon Catholics the highest honours
of the land. A manual had beat read to the House
which forbade lying and swearing, but that was be-
tween Catholic and Catholic ; he apprehended it ex-
tended not to their connexions with heretics. It had
been represented in a late publication concerning the
imprisonment of the Pope, that he rejected with vio-
lence the proposal of Bonaparte to tolerate heretics ;
this was a fair specimen of the feeling of his Holi-
ness to a Protestant people. The Riglit Hon. Gen-
tleman (Mr. Canning) who amused the House by
his eloquence, his wit, and his humour, though on
a subject not to be laughed at, had mentioned that
Mr. Pitt entertained designs of conciliating the Ca.
tholics, but as Mr. Pitt had never proposed any
' measure for that purpose, be hoped- no Gentleman
would in future amuse himself with endeavours to
unravel that wonderous Statesman's designs : such a
design was contrary to the tenor of his life, and to
suppose it was an insult to his memory. The Ca-
tholics had exaggerated their numbers for the purpose
of intimidation, and they had succeeded with some.
They stated that Ireland contained five millions of
Catholics, whereas he was positive the whole popu-
lation did not amount to more than four millions ;
and they represented that it cost twenty millions of
money annually to support the Church Establish-,
ment, which was transmitted out of the country to
absentees who were the bloodsuckers of the nation. I
Now the accurate calculation of the church revenue
was £Bl,OOO annually. Sometimes they forgot
their riches and complained of their abject poverty;;
again they pretended that the first fruits amounted
to £20,000, but being a Member of the Board him-
self, he could assure the House, that they only
amounted to £4OO. He admitted that many Irish-
men
were in the army and navy, but the life of a
common soldier was easy and comfortable compared
to the life of a labourer, and it was impossible for
the priests to prevent them from enlisting ; if the Bill
passed not one recruit'more would be raised. Not
more than one-eighth of the army and navy were Ca-
tholics, and part of these were not Irishmen. The
Pope never enjoyed much power as a temporal so-
vereign, it was his spiritual powers that made him
formidable, and now under the influence of Bona-
parte, lie was more dangerous than ever. He con-
templated nothing but danger in the subversion of
the present laws, and when the Catholics were ad-
mitted to power, there was little to prevent them from
pulling down the bulwark of the Constitution. By
these means, elections would fall into the hands of
the meanest of the populace, for a peasant with an
acre of ground for which he paid a heavy acknow-
ledgment called himself a freeholder. In the midst
of his little field he constructed a hovel, called a
cabin in his own country, three sides of which were
mud, and the fourth the side of a deep dry ditch.—
The roof was rushes, with a round hole through
which the smoke ascended, and in the front wall was
another hole, called a window, stopped with hay
during she night and removed at the approach of
morning ; such was the habitation of the freeholder.
By these subdivisions 11,000 freeholders had been
created, where formerly there were no more than
400. After the pausing of the Bill sixty Catholic
Members would be returned from Ireland, and thirty
would join them in England ; they would stick to-
gether like a cluster of bees, and propose to assist
the Minister in his motions, providing that he would
be liberal to them ; then they would lay hold of all
the Irish offices, and establish themselves. In 1809,
the Catholics, at a Synod held at Tulloch, in Ireland,
by an unanimous Resolution, approved of that
Bull of the Pope which confirmed the elevation of
Bonaparte to the Imperial Crown of France, where-
by they acknowledged that usurper as Sovereign of
France, to the exclusion of its lawful King, and
sanctioned a system which deprived all those inhabi-
tants of France of their estates who would nut submit
to the new order of things. This was not a conceits

of religion, but stri act of disleyaltt to their King.
What right had they to signify their approbation l•
that Bull? It bad been argued, that as the electiv
franchise bad been given to them, they ought also
get the representative franchise. He should contend
that the argument was altogether the other way
Ithat if it would be dangerous to the Constituti
i
I to grant them the representative franchise, that vers
a reason why the elective should be taken away fro '
them. 'What right had they to acknowledge the so
premacy of any foreign Power ? If we were ode n '
Lion, the people in both countries ought to be p "
in this respect on the same terms. Tile Acts which
it was pro sedproposed to repeal by the Bill; were the 1
and sth of Eland
commonly iz ath
called , the
25
the Corporation
th °f.
Charles, ani alsti
h
Act.--
But he would contend that the Regent was bound to
preserve all these Acts. The Regent acted as true:
tee for the King, and every Gentleman who heard
I him knew well what was the kinwsb opinion upon thii
II subject. In such circumstances, therefore, the Re-
gent being equally acquainted With it, was bound to
do all that his Father would do to preserve these
lActs, which were so essential to the Constitution.....
It teas idle to g that, If the two other branches
i • of the Legislature should agree to the measure, the i
Sovereign would be bound to assent to it That
Iwould be to make a cypher of the king; for dad
1 Houses of Parliament have no power to dispense.
with the obligation of the Coronation Oath. Thi
Hon. and Learned Gentleman then took a review
of the arguments of a Learned Gentleman opposite
(Mr. Plunkett), ridiculing the nature of the Corpo,
ration Oaths ; and opposed to his authority the opia
nion of a great Constitutional Lawyer, in the reign
of William and Mary, when it was proposed to re.
peal the 30th of Charles 11. It was laid down then,
that the Romanist: ought to be contented with the
protection of their persons and properties, and that if
that Act were to be repealed, it would be attended
with danger to the State. He had already adverted
to the Oath of Allegiance, wbich contained a declara-
tion, that the Pope had no power in ternporals. But
that doctrine was contrary to the decisions of their
Councils, and must therefore be considered by them
of no validity. The Popes had exercised temporal
power in the cases of Henry 111. and Henry IV. of
France, and in the cases of Henry VIII. and Eliza-
beth, in England. When they asserted doctrines.
then, so contrary to what had been the practice of
Popes and the authority of Councils, did not the
House feel the contempt in Which their present duels.
rations ought to be held ? Then as to the opinions of
their Universities : when Henry VIII. wished to di..
vorce his Q.reen Catharine, the opinions of those Uni-
versities ( Douay, Salamanca, burbonne, &c..) had
been taken on the subject I and one half decided that
his marriage was invalid and incestuous, whilst the
other half declared it to be lawful and perfect. The
fact was, they were bribed on both sides—on one by
the agents of Hem), VI ll.—on the other, by those of
Charles V. ; and it ....as remarkable, that Bonner was
one of tlie a:ents of Henry VIII. in tie distribution
throughout E.trop . of the bribes to the Universities.
But as to the obligation nf an oath, let themselves
speak. Dr. Milner—(A /aus/r)—yes, Dr. Milner,
notwithstanding the Sardonic mile on the counte.
nances of the Hun. Gentlemen—Dr. Milner, who
was the general agent for all the Cadioiics of Eng-
land and Ireland, maintained that the obligation of
an oath was to be measirred by expediency ; and Dr,
Lanegan,' an Irish Titular Bishop, held nearly • the •
same : ;n shot?, there was no such thing as holding
them by oaths ; even the Doctor Sukilis of the Right
Hon. Gentleman who had the other night entertained
the House with so much wit and humour—even that
same Doctor, Thomas Aquinas, held that an oath
might be broken, if after having taken it a person
should come to the knowledge of a fact, which if he
had known previously would have prevented him
from taking it. But the same doctrine lead at a still
later period been maintained by the Pope: when to
appease an insurrection of his subjects in Hungary,
the Emperor of Germany had entered into a treaty
with them, and took an oath to observe it faithfully,
the Pope, in 171 Z issued a Bull, declaring both the
stipulations of the treaty and die obligation of the
oath to be void. He objected, therefore, to the whole
of the Bill, and particularly to die amendments of
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning). These
amendments provided, that certain Commissioners
should be bound by an oath not to recommend any
individual to a Bishopric whom they should not be-
lieve to be loyal. • This was the only security pro-
vided. But it was impossible they could be loyal
whilst they acknowledged the supremacy of the Pore,
unless loyalty to the Pope were meant. When the
Veto was rejected, the Right Hon. Gentleman was
put to it to find out some other security, The Veto
gave to the Crown an absolute nomination of the Ro-
man Catholic Bishops, but the Right Hon. Gentle-
man's amendments gave the Crown no power, though
they would give to the Commissioners some interest.
He saw even by the Papers received this day, that
Dr. Troy had sent a deputation to the Catholics, to
intimate his entire disapprobation of the Bill.—(N it
is net so," observed a Member sitting near the Learned
Gentleman.] —He had seen it stated in the public
Papers, and had no other authority for his assertion.
Under all these circumstances, lie should feel it his
duty to move, 44 That the Bill be read a second time
this day three months "
Mr. CHARLES GRANT, in rising to follow the
Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman, for whose vene-
rable age and extensive knowledge he had the highest
veneration, would have been fully sensible of the d•ffi-
culty of the task of replying to him, if he had not
been relieved from that obligation by the perfect re-
membrance he had that the speech which the House
had heard front the Learned Gentleman this eight,
had been so completely answered by a Right Hon.
Gentleman on the floor (Mr. Grattan) in the course
of last Session. The Learned Gentleman had thought
proper to complain of the tone in which the hiends
of this measure had pressed it upon the consideration