Star.
London, England, 1812-04-16 00:00:00

cAniouc CLAIMS.

Mr. HUTCHINSON said, that he held in his
tiand a Petition from the Catholic inhabitants of the
County of the City of Cork, praying, that all persons
professing the Roman Catholic persuasion might be
relieved from the pressure of those disabilities and
disqualifications under which they at present labour-
ed—it was not his intention to go then at all into the
discussion of a question, which was soon to be treated
in a manner so much more suitable to its importance,
but he begged the attention of the House to the lan-
guage and character of the Petition itself. It was
every way worthy of the great cause in behalf of
which it was preferred—in bold and constitutional
language, it called upon that House to make the
British constitution stronger than it then was, by ex-
tending it to every British subject. It spoke a lan-
uage worthy of men, who knew how to value the
tights they applied for, such as freemen should at all
times use, and a British Parliament should at no pe-
riod be unwilling to hear. He had also to state, that
every signature to the Petition was the handwriting
of the person whose name it specified, comprehending
almost all the Catholic iespectability, weight, influ-
ence, and property of the County. He could also
assure the House, that there had been no sort of in-
terference made use of to swell the number of the
signatures, every man was lett to do as he pleased, a
circumstance that must have created rather an awk-
ward sort of contrast to _that feverish anxiety evinced
in other quarters to procure signatures to a Petition
of a very 'oiffetent tendency. He strongly deprecated
. every interposition of this sort as most unconstitu-
tional, as all attempt to disguise from Parliament
the real' iehtinienta of the Protestaata-of Ireland, up.
on the'Object of the claims of their Catholic fellow-
aubjecti. the PititiUn was then brought u4', read,
and ordered to lie upon the table.
PUBLIC IMPALA:4IM
Sir JOHN NEW po,Ris called the attention of
the House to the. subject of persons who had Made
away with the public. money. He thought it was fit
that the House. should have before i; a complete
titaternent of all the accounts of the country, in order
• to see what were 'the defalcations, and whit the sums
recovered trim:tithe defalcators. He alluded to the
defalcations of General Delancey, Mr. Steel, Mr.
Hunt, the Dutch Comthissionersi 'Mr. Villiers, and
Mr. Chinnery. the laitei case there was said to
be a defalcation of nittipar, but no report was yet
made of it ; and he understood that Mr. Chinnery's
aeCurities , Conndered themselves as exonerated, on
account of due diligence 'not having been made by
Oovernenent to prevent the sum from coining to
whit it did. He next alluded to the Board of Works
In Ireland. To the Treasurer of. this Board a sum
of stl MOW had bettissued. • His office ceaied in
tbo2, 'god accounts remained' unsettled 'to this
*moment..• A statement was lately given that his ac.
odnntssiere in a state of preparation, and wouldsciou
ad4t4teil. ' 'Whateyer were the soma likely to be
ieco6o, a great benefit *mild 'result Irons the
a4ifestio.. g a divitioa t. taka

MILITARY PUN ISIIM EN TS,
Captain BENNETT, in rising to make his pro-
mised motion with respect to military punishments,
said, that if it were required to shew a necessity for
it, he could with ease produce evidence at the bar of
the House to prove much more abuses of the system
of punishment now in force in our Army than had
ever been hitherto stated. If men, he contended,
had been assembled for the sole purpose of devising
and inflicting tortures, they could not by the aid of
the keenest ingenuity have fallen upon any that would
have more effectually gratified the perverted feelings
of human nature than that used to enforce the disci-
pline of our troops—a torture which would not bear
inspection in the face of day, but was inflicted in
holes and corners—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial i
Benches.) Aye, he would repeat, in holes and cor-
ners • for if it were inflicted any other way than pri- !
vateiv, it would be necessary to have troops always
on the alert to protect the executioner against the in-
dignation of an enlightened people. He objected to
the punishment on the ground of its inequality, as
well as its inutility ; for could any thing be more un-
equal than that men of different degrees of strength
of mind, and of nerve, should be subjected to inflic-
tions of the same nature ? It was highly desirable
that an inquiry should at least be instituted as to
the state of the system at present; and he should
therefore move—

" That there be laid before the House Returns of the Corm.'
ral Punishments which had taken place in the Regular Army,
Militia, and Local Militia, for the last seven years, ending the
Ist of uary, 1812, distinguishing the crimes, sentences, and
amount of punishment inflicted."
Mr. CHARLES ADAMS said, that if duly con-1
sidered, the disgrace supposed to be inflicted by the
Cat-o'.nine-tails would be found to emanate not from
the punishment but from the crime.
Mr. MANNERS SUTTON said the present mo-
tion was evidently brought forward as preparatory
to one to get rid of the punishment of flpgging
alto-
gether : but he could not perceive why it should be
acquiesced in, unless some instances of malversation
could be brought forward. He would not say that
the Commander in Chief was not in possession of do.
cuments to furnish such an account as was moved
for ; be, on the .contrary, admitted that he was, and
a fair inference might here be drawn of the sedulous
attention he paid to the duties of his office. The
Honourable Member proceeded then to pronounce a
panegyric on the merits of the Commander hi Chief,
and to descant on the improvements he had effected
in the Army, expressed his belief that the agitation
of the present question was calculated to unsettle the
military mind, and was now unpopular in the Army,
from the General to the Private ; and concluded by
observing, that at all events there was no just ground
advanced for the production of the papers moved for.
Mr. ABERCROMBIE supported the motion, in-
sisting not only on the propriety of the investigation
now proposed, but expressing a wish that such a c,ne
should take place annually.
Mr. W. SMITH supported the motion.
Mr. M. SUTTON explained.
Sir F. BURDETT said he expected to have heard
snore cogent reasons for rejecting a motion of this
kind, than any he had as yet heard given. As to
making out a case—many had already been made
out : he had himself stated no less than eight cases
in Gibraltar, where the surgeons had given their opi-
nions that the men died in consequence of the flog.
gings they received, but were afterwards compelled
to say they died by fever. He had heretofore men-
tioned several cases of suicide, and attempts at sui-
cide, in order to avoid corporal punishment ; and
those men who had attempted suicide, and were re-
covered, actually suffered additional punishment for
the attempt. Old men, of 70 years of age, who had
been 50 years in the army, and who were more
shocked at the idea of shame than the dread of pain,
had, in spite of every remonstrance, and in defiance
of long and meritorious service, been doomed to be
flogged. Youths who scarcely knew what they did,
found no diminution of punishment by pleading their
youth—neither the infirmities of old age, nor the in-
experience of youth were allowed to entitle them to
exemption from the application of the disgraceful lash.
Would, then, the House be satisfied with the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman's compliments on the Com-
mander-in-Chief? He believed both he, and other
officers were possessed of humane sentiments, but
habit in time got the better of those tender feelings ;
and if it did not entirely eradicate them, imperceptibly
blunted and subdued them. When the number of
• deserters was also considered, we might be assured
that the effect arose in a great degree from the appre-
hension of severe punishments for some trifling offence.
He knew of some who had deserted from that mo-
tive • and he was convinced that there were a great
number of Sine young men, who never would have
quitted their regiments, if it were not for this appre-
hension, and wlio would gladly return to them, if the
apprehension were removed. He believed that the
soldiers could not be left longer in such a state ; and
he thought that the people of the country had been
too iqifferept hitherto on this subject; ana now, with
simile he must confess it, that n was v. ith some jus.
tice that the punishment about which the country
we; so indifferent when confined to the regular army,
had n'o fallen ppon the whiilp nation in all thexfasses
in which they were liable to be called on for military
service.' A Noble Lord had said upon aloriner de-
bate, that lethotigfit it almbst impossible that a min
could dig of receiving 240 lasbm kie should "how:

care of the public money. He concluded with mot- ever, cite a ease where a man had died in the utmost
ing, that the Committee of Public Expenditure be ` tortures from the infliction of 170 lashes. It was a
instructed to examine into the present state of ac- man of the name of *Donald, of the 3d Regiment,
counts, and the balances of money due to the Public,'. who in the year 1775 received the punishment. The
and lay before the House an abstract of the same, man was a married man, and his wife had run away
and their opinions thereon ; and that they should , from him, and lived with a Serjeant. He, at diffe-
state what balances were irrecoverable, &c. rent times demanded his wife, which demand might
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER have given some disturbance. The Officers did not
had no objection to this motion, provided the Com- punish him in the first instance for demanding his
mittee had the necessity powers for entering on this wife, hut they issued an order that he should not de-
subject ; and provided no unnecessary duty was im- mand her any more ; and the first time he violated
posed upon them. ' this order he was tried by a Coutt Martial for a dis.
Mr. BANKES had no doubt but that the powers obedience of orders, and sentenced to receive 200
of the Committee extended to the objects of the lashes. The punishment was inflicted on a Friday
Hcnourable Baronet's motion ; and he was perfectly with such extraordinary severity, that on receiving
ready to undertake this business in preference to 170 lashes the man fainted and fell down, and he died
others ; particularly so, as there was nothing which in the hospital on the Tuesday following. A bill of
now occupied the attention of the Committee. i indictment was preferred against all the Officers of
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, before the close.of the Court Martial for the murder of this man ; but
the Session, it would be useful -to shew the Public they were acquitted from its being proved that a Sur.
that the House determined to lay the whole state of geon was present, whose duty it was to interfere if
public affairs before the Country.—The motion was the life of the man was in danger. Baron Meziers,
agreed to. who was the Attorney-General of the Colony at the
time of the prosecution, stated in his speech, " that
when a man had been guilty in France of the mur-
der of one of its Sovereigns, the Council deliberated
on a punishment adequate to the enormity of the
crime : they even encouraged propositions to be made
to them for that purpose; and, among others, a but-
cher proposed to flay the mac alive, and keep him in
that state three days before he should die. This pro-1
posal appeared to the Council too barbarous even for
so heinous a crime, and they contented themselves i
with breaking him on the wheel, and keeping him,
two days on the rack. Now the Officers of this re-
giment had, for an offence comparatively trivial, in-
flicted a more cruel death than the Council of France
could bear to hear of, even for the murder of a So.
vereign, and more barbarous than even the butcher
could propose, for he had only thought of keeping
the man three days in torture, while those Officers
had flayed the man, and kept him four days in agony
before he died."—Such had been the feelings .of a
Crown Lawyer formerly, on such a punishment; but
now Crown Lawyers could speak of them with ten-
derness, and 200 lathes, as it seems, were thought no-
thing at all of in the present state of our army. It
was known, however, that deaths had since taken
place in conseqi ence of punishment, and that many
suicides had taken place from the apprehension of
them.—There was also an instance of a Serjeant of a
Veteran Battalion, of the name of G 11, who cut his'
own throat merely to avoid the pain of being obliged
to witness a number of those punishments. He then
dwelt at some length on the account of masa( inien-
rilility, which appeared last year in all the Papers.
It appeared by this statement, that a Private, in or-
der to obtain his discharge, had counterftited insensi-
bility, and so obstinately persisted, that although they
ran pins under his nails, and studied horrid pains to
rouse him, he discovered no life. A surgeon then think-
ing the insensibility arose from a wound in the head, ac-
tually trepanned him ; and it was only on scraping the
brain that the man uttered one single groan. He was
afterwards discharged, and recovered with astonishing
rapidity • but upon hearing that a press-gang was in
the neighbourhood, he ran away, and had not since
been heard of. The name of the regiment, and of
the surgeon, had been stated, and the officers of that
regiment or the surgeon would have undoubtedly
contradicted this statement if it could be contradict-
ed. In the year 1808 there were found to be nearly
8000 blind men in the army applying for !heir dis-
charge on that account, but'as it was suspected that
the greater part of those men had caused their own
bliadness to procure their discharge, there was an
order issued to deprive those discharged far thi,, cause
of the benefits of the pensions they would otherwise
have had. When it was considered what dreadful
suffering men had thus borne or inflicted upon them-
selves to get their discharge, it was hard to believe
that the situation of a soldier was quite so comfort-
able as had been represented. Young Officers were
obliged to attend these dreadful punishments in oral
der to enure them to it ; and private soldiers, who,
perhaps, would have fortitude enough to have under.
gone them, have often fainted in the ranks at being
obliged to witness them. He was convinced that if
such a practice took place in the face of day, and the
public, it must be soon laid aside, and that it could
only be continued in holes and corners. He would
not disguise his feelings respecting this barbarous
and ignominious punishment which hung over the
backs of the army, and now, indeed, of the nation'
also. He would not join in covering the foulness of
the cat-o'nine-tails. He would say that it must be
laid aside, and it would be laid aside. What was
the reform of petty abuses compared to the freeing
the nation from this barbarity and infamy ? This
was a subject on which all honest men, from one
corner of the empire to the other, ought to unite and
petition the House. He had formerly contentel !Ans-
i self with throwing out hints toGovernment upon the
subject, and he would have been glad that they bad
taken it up of themselves. Now, for the first time,
he had spoken his feelings upon it openly and with-
'out reserve. He thought it was time to do so, as he
thought he saw an intention to baffle and elude the
, just expectations of every one who viewed this subject
with proper feelings. He never could consent by his
silence to join in this delusion, or allow those base
chains to be rivetted on the country. He thought
the great benefit of the motion was, that it would
lead to an abolition of the punishment; for he was
convinced that if the sentences and modes of punish-
ment were well known to the public, the sanguinary`
course of this system must be arrested. If the Gen-1
tlemen who supported it believed the Bible, they
would find in it, that forty stripes lacking one, were
as many as were allowed by that which, they them-
selves called the law of Gon. After many other
observations of a similar nature, he concluded by cv.
pressing a confident hope that iis horrible and sad
grievance would not continue much longer as a dis-
grace to the country. The system was altogether
unknown in France, and how it came to be grafted
upon the English Constitution seemed, from the aik
horrent nature of the people, unaccountable.
" How could the image of the Immortal One
Stoop its celestial feature to the scourge,
And be debased beneath a brother's hand?"
Mr. LOCKHART was against the motion on *Pi
very ground the Hon. Baronet supported it, became
it went to the abolition'of the punishment. The Ho.'
nourable Baronet had forgot the practice of one
the RICA distinguished aucieulightened nations 01 ajij

thibity, to which the words refereed, sq, Lies
ems." On the Continent, it had been vary usual
to send culprit: to the galley:, death was also another
punishment frequently resorted to, and he was sure,
was it left to any man's option, there would be no
doubt that he would prefer this temporary punish-
ment.—(Some cries of No, no.) From all the French
officers he had conversed with, he had learned, that
the present system in the French army was most
oppressive and capricious. How could this mode of
punishment be disgraceful to the nation Punish-
ment was never designed for a whole nation, but
only for the guilty.—(llear, hear.) Whatever it
might be now, after talking so much of it ; it was
not formerly thought disgraceful in the army. it
was only the offence to which the disgrace and in.
famy were attached. With respect to the Militia,
there could be no danger of abuse, as there were so
many officers in that body accustomed to the duties
of a Magistrate.
Mr. C. W.WYNNE) though disposed to vote for the
Motion, was not prepared to say that the punishment
of fleggiug ought to be wholly abolished, at least for
some years. He was glad from all quarters, wheal.,
that this species of punishment was tonsiderably-di-
minished, and that in some regiments it was disused
altogether. From the Accounts required, they would
see how far this was the case. He thought in all
cases at home a reference ought to be made to the
Commanding Officer of the'district.
Mr. WI LBER FORCE thought the conduct of the
Honourable Baronet (Burdett) was highly honour.
able to hi, feelings. Indeed, several General Officers,
who might be supposed best able to judge of the pto-
priety of change, had declared themselves in favour
of it, But any sudden change, he thought, might
tend materially to injure the interest: of the country,
and, as one of those appointed to guard thew in.
terests, be could not agree to a measure which would
prove injurious to them. It did appear that this pn-
nishment had of late very much dim;niled in num,
leer; and he considered that the regulations proposed
by his Right Hon. Friend (the Judge Advocate)
would have all the effect desired from them. He
wished he could see some system adopted of reward.
ing merits as well as punishing offences. Ouch had
been the plan of the hits Mr. Windham. With respect
to the vote proposed, he was against it, because**
was teaching the army to look to the House of Com.
mons for redress.

Sir SAMUEL ROMlLLYbegged to call back the
attention of the House to the question really befcee
them. This was not a motion for the abolition of
Corporal runishments, bat that there should be laid
before the: House certain papers regarding military
punishmepts. One of the greatest objections to the
present system of military punishment sTath that there
was po limit to the punishment Courts Martial might
inflict, brat the mercy of the Members ; they might
order the infliction of 5, or 5,000 lashes, without ma-
tron], and it was most important, that they should at
future know, what it is they do, and what they ought
to do. HE/ (Sir Samuel Romilly) would be glad to
be informed, what mischief was to be dreaded ? Wei
it discussion ? The other side of the Houser by their
resistance to this motion provoked it, and, according
to their own statement, the discussion of this subject
had produced the most important benefits, since within
these few years, in consequence of it, corporal punish-
ment had been greatly lessened. An Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Lockhart) had said, that in the mi.
litia nothing was to be feared, because the officers
were frequently Magistrates, or had served upon the
Grand Juries. How true this assertion was, might be
gathered from the writings of military mcn, be,t
quainted with the subject, among whom was Sir
Robert Wilson, who had stated expressly, that con
poral punishment was more frequent in the
, than in any other department of the service, and had
supported his observation, by making it appear, 11
if as many men were continued to be so e
annually, as had hitherto suffered, for only sus yews,
the whole 70,000 men would have undergone t$
inhuman sentence. With respect to the nature of the
punishment, it was almost needless to quote the "di
known authority of Judge Blackstone. who had daP
dared, that by the constitution of England aimpl
death, unattended with any circumstances of torture,
was' the severest punishment that the law allowed ;
the rack and the knout were unknown, and it reopen
ed for us by a refinement of cruelty to drive a we
to the very verge of existence, and when his soot
was about to forsake his tortured body to leap SIN?
eternity, he was taken down from the halberts, re
moved to an hospital, and every means take,' i) caff
back life only to be again tortured.—Here
wretch was left, his body mere at ease, but his nima
still upon the rack, roflecting, that the Later
wounds healed, the.nearer he was to the infliction
the remainder of his sentence; that his wounds
only healed by his tormentors that they might _
be torn open.—( Hear, hear.)—lt was mere itypoctisr
to say that the minds of the soldiers would be he
flamed by what passed in Parliament ; they, perhaps!
would never hear it; and would those be affected Owl.
were compelled to witness unmoved the suferiaessf
their fellow-creatures ? The substitution of death
would be comparatively merciful, for individuals had
been known to fly into his arms to be shielded
the lash. It should likewise be remembered,
the persons who were thus degraded and torMenua+
were not voluntary victims ; they were first
pelled to enter the army, and afterwards to endure
punishments ; boys, who in law had no power
disposing of their property, were, in the may, Per'
mitted to sell their lives and liberties for a few gluonst
spent in licentious debauchery. Under all these
cunistances he was of opinion, that the account
for ought instantly so be laid upon the table'
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQI
had no intention of imputing to the Honourable,
denials on the opposite side any other motive in .
ing forward this subject, than that of the most
nourable and humane nature ; he could not, however,
but think that discussions of this kind were likely t
be attended with Mischief and danger. He ease,.
ledged that Corporal Punishment was an evil, W
was a necessary evil, and one which, in the esolits'
tion of the army, it would be utterly impossible'
part with, lie beliefed that there had been
persons who• were obliged to undergo the ,
spent more than once. (Sir S. ROMILLY said,
the House, that the Returns would tell him
His Honourable and Learned Friend said, _-
Returns would tell him so ; but ought he not told,
had pine Returns before he made such glarallf.

fysis.s oat Cowin- ous

0 Ca,
4IS lII=
aster
!clew of
ids were
it litgalti
YFKII
1 be
Palmist.
:fed iro;
riot
of death
ual) bad
led from
ed. tbat
inented!
rst corn!
adore ifs
weer of
BY.. Ps'
wed
bk
in brat
nog ke•
nowt"
likely..
aria*
as k
couNi.
sod* 1.11
Qua
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als°
dui
t to ba°
riata°

" 1, Lidor,persi
)een very usual
vas also anothcr
nd he was sure,
e would be no
liporary punish.
n all the French
id learned, that
army was most
ild this mode of
ation ? Punish.
iole nation, but
Whatever it
:h of it ; it was,
the army. It
lisgrace and in-
to the Militia,
as there were so
red to the duties

ed to vote for tte
: the punishment
hed, at least for
planers, to hear,
onsiderablrdi-
s it was disused
'red, they would
thought in all
be made to the

le conduct of the
highly honour-
Ileneral Officers,
udge of the pro-
'selves in favour
thought, might
of the country,
guard those in•
ule which would
rear that this pu-
-I;niched in num,
ilatians proposed
edge AdTocate)
rom them. He
)pted of reward-
nces. Ouch had
m. With respect
st it, because'it
House of Coat.

d to call back the
ion really before
the abolition of
T should be laid

garding military
Dbjectiuns to the
nt was, !hat there
rts Martial might
ers ; they might
hes, without con-
at they should in

what they ought
vould be glad to
e dreaded ? Wai

'2 House, by their
t, and, according
of this subject
tetits, since within
corporal punish-
An Honourable

d, that ir, the mai-

ause the officers
I served upon the
ion was, might be
try men, best acl
whom was Sir
,rwessly, that cor-
!tit in the militia,

service, and had
ig it appear, thac
be so punished
or only six years,
e undergone tlii
the nature of the
to quote the well
one, who had de.

England simple
stances of torture,
the law allowed ;
vn, and it Tenpin/
ty to drive a nian
ind when his soul
>ocl3s) to leap into
the halberts, rer
cans takta o call
.—Here lioaE
ase, but his mind
iat the faster Ms
:o the infliction of
his wounds were
they might again
as mere liypoctisr
iers would be in 7
it ; they, perhaps,
se be affected who-
d the sufferings ot
stitution of death
3r individuals had
be shielded from
-emembered„ 'flue
!d and tormented,
r were first corn
yards to endure its
had no power of
M the army, per-
for a few guineas,
nder all these cit.-
he account moved
the table.
EXCHEQUEIi.
Honourable Gen. '
n- motive in brink
t of the most ho-
mid not, however,
ind were likely tO,
ger. He acknow,
vas an evil, but it
ih, in the constitu!'
terly impossible to
had been casens of
'ergo the puish!'
SULLY said, across
Id tell him
end said, that tbt
;ht he not to bale
such glaiiag aF44

exaggeratastateMents to the House ? —(arer, hear.) 1
...Jae then alluded to the statement made by the
Honourable Baronet from a Newspaper, of the case
of a man at Taunton who shammed death, and
when the pressgang came into the neighbourhood,
skulked off, and never was heard of after, as he never
wasi
of before.—(A laugh.)—He did not be-
leve heard
a iword
of this ; no trace could be found of such
a case having ever existed ; and with regard to the
instance of suicide, as there was no truth in the story,
it was intended to prose-cute the publisher of it. The
production of the Papers moved for, would be a great
injustice to the officers who caused the punishment to
be inflicted ; in as much as it would occasion a dis-
cussion on their conduct, without giving them any
opportunity to justify or explain. The Honourable
Baronet said, that we were a disgraced, degraded,
and a fl'gged nation ! he might as well say, that we
were a disgraced, degraded, and a hung nation ; and
he would no doubt find many who would join him in
that opinion, and who would be very glad to get rid
of the punishment of hanging.— d laugh).—On these
grounds he opposed the motion.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that the Right Hen-
Gentleman opposite, and his Hon. Friend (Mr. Wil-
berforce) had used arguments so extraordinary, that
he could not ,give his vote without entering his pro-
test against them. It was said, that the word " flog-
ging" was a watch-word fibr discontent in the army,
and that therefore every discusiion upon the subject
should be avoided, as tending to irritate and inflame.
While they had in recollection the Wacheren In-
qniry, he was surprised that an argument of this kind
could be used ; and he would say, that the manner
in which that subject was met by the planners of the
expedition, proved that the discussion of any thing
relative to the treatment of the army, was not consi-
dered as without the province of the House. The
question before the House was, whether documents
should be laid on the table, to shew how far corporal
punishments had consisted in abuse, and whether the
power of Commanding Officers had been temperately
or immoderately used? The nervous feeling which
was excited in Gentlemen on the opposite side,
whenever the subject was brought forward, in,
duced one to think that they feared the finding
of things as they ought not to be. He had a let-
ter which he received very lately, dated from Ca.
nada, on the I 2th of February last, which would shew
that this mode of- punishment still continues in
full fetce. This letter mentions a recent instance
where 700 lashes were inflicted at four different times.
No man could deserve to be visited with such seve-
rity of punishment. Mutiny, 'rebellion, and other
such flagrant acts of outrage and contempt of autho-
rity and discipline, merited, it is true, the highest
punishment ; this he admitted, but he contended that
in such instances the punishment should extend to
death. But this which cauterised the moral feelings,
at the same time that it lacerated the tortured person
of the sufferer, was on no occasion to be admitted.—
The effect he feared was not only of the most debas.
ing nature, but there was reason to apprehend the
worst consequences, perhaps, ere long, from that fe-
rocious and sanguinary spirit arising from a military
education, to which such mode of punishment is con-
stantly familiar. 1 o confine it to soldiers and sailors
was to alienate them from the other classes of their
fellow-citizens, and to create in them a spirit of cru-
elty, which made them the ready instruments of visit-
ing on others what they themselves had received in
their own persons. He was sure that, if flogging had
not existed as a punishment in our army, cur soldiers
would never have lent themselves to assist in intiraing
it in a manner so improper and so disgraceful as that
which took place in the Sister Kingdom.—To prove
that his statements were not exaggerated, he could
produce a book, the book of a Master-at-Arms of a
line of-battle-ship, (he would not mention his name,)
in which the punishments of six months were recorded.
' In six months of the year 1809, it would appear,
that not less than 14 or 15,000 lashes were inflicted.
Several were repeatedly punished ; to avoid the re-
p?tition of punishment, one man leaped overboard,
and he believed a similar mode of escaping the tor-
ture was not unusual. The punishment was aggrava-
ted in many instances by the barbarous fashion, as
well as the parts of the body upon which it was in-
flicted. In conclusion, he observed, that the only me-
thod of contradicting with effect the reports which pre-
nailed as to the nature of those punishments, if the re-'
ports were false, would be to accede to the present
Moo If false, no one would rejoice more than
himself that it was void of foundation.
Mr. ROBINSON defended the Admiralty from
the charge of countenancing wanton or severe punish-
I • ments in the Navy ; and be would with confidence
• take upon himself to deny the accuracy of the facts
stated by the Hon. Gentleman. Why did not the
Hon. Gentleman mention names ? '
Mr. BROUGHAM saiJ, that he would send the
documents he alluded to hit') the Admiralty.
Mr. Long, Sir F. Burdett, Mr. Brougham, Mr.
"inson. Mr. Lambe, Mr. Mabliers Sutton, and
Mr. Bennet, made each a few further observations,
and the House divided :
For the Motion 17—Against it 49—Majority 32.