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London, England, 1801-11-05 00:00:00

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PARLMALtNTAR2- PROCEEDMGS.

140 USE OF COMMONi, TIT3DAY, NOV. 3,

1711 CONTINUATION FROM oUlt TAPER OF *ESTIRDAY.

Coinnel FuLLA). low gave notice. Coat it was his intention,
early in the prof,nt Si awn, to bring in a Bill for du:
of the condition of the Poor in Scotland.
A new Writ was ordered iu be iirucd for a Member :n ferve
In PartLinisi.t fur Nottingham, in the room of Evelyn Pierre-
point. Ely. dcceafi.l.
A new Writ was alto ordered for Higham ravers, in the
room of Edcy, Efq. ileceafcd.

rsTIMATEg.

Tht eilA%cu.r.on of the Exc ere ut moved, that there he
1 ant before thr Houle an Eftimatc of the Charge of Prifoners of
War for one year, ending Jal,,lary 24th, I—Rt-tt ;—an EfUrnate of
tic Nlifatibneou. Services for one year, ending the 24th of
Mareh —•;o1 I ttimate of the Debt nt. the Navy up to the gd of
Scpt nth,r, Oat ; and that an humble Adam& be pet-feared to
Majelty, tly fuch of the Mcnibers of the Houle u arc of
t.i• 70... lefty's Privy Council. praying that he order the fame to
be laid before Parliament ; which motions were agreed to.

terpnife for dlietsfetherlands, tide queßion was *lsere fight to
bc foetid? k wan, in his opinion, bad policy to go to war or
to continue the war for a little more wealth or a little mori
territory, as the expense was fore to exceed the value of the
purebafe. We now retired with uudred ftrength and with folid
, refunrees. But it was Rill to be mmembered, that the war
• had tailed for nine years, and that our eefources were to be
! (pared and chcrifited, to defend, if required, the honour and
Independence of our country. We were no longer pledged to
adt in a confederacy, and it was therefore but fair to aft what
'SVC thotild gain by carrying on the war fingle-hamded ? We
could not call France to account for what the had gained from
other Powers ; the queltion was, bow the balance Rood bc-
' tween us and France refpedively France had not retained
all her conquelts, and we could not expedt to keep potiettion
, of the whole of ours. It was faid that the acquilitions of France
. from the war were greatly portentous, but the gloomy inferen-
CCA which be had beard were certainly :trained beyond the fa&
But admitting, for the fake of argument, that France had •
• pined fuch Strength, was this a reafon why we Mould aped
her to accede to difadvantageous terms. In point of fait, the
cob' I d y °frame which we bad acquired were greater in value
than thole which we had reftored. The French fettlements
were in fuch a Rate of ruin and defolation that we mutt, for a
long time, retain our decided fuperiority, and with it nearly
the whole of the carrying trade. The French navy was in
I fuch a wretched Rate, that it could not be reftorcd, even
in a tolerable degree, within a period far exceeding the molt
fanguinr calculations refpedting the duration of Peace. With
• refuedt to the language which he had formerly ufed refpedling
the fueccffive Governments in France, he Rill retained the fame
opinion of individuals; but he thought that the forbearance of
neon,: angnage was a duty whenever the Executive Power had
formed a 'Ert aty of Peace with any Government, however
compofed. The jultice of this War, in the firft inflame, be
! oblerved, WS, fixed and determined. We had laved ourfelves,
iu the • e.ult, from the attack which was meditated and deter-
j wined upon agalnit all regular Governments, but moil para-
. eularly and malignantly againft our own. lie had wiibed to 1
dettroy a Government founded on Revolutionary Principles. ,
and he bad only to regret that the efforts of others did not
prove adequate to our own for this purptde. It was the N-
vourite with of his heart to relines the ancient Goventinent of
France with certain modifications, rather than to fubmit to
the mad experiments on legiflation which codas, ;cud the fafet y
of 41 Europe. If this °hiect was found to he unattainable, we
had at leaft the fadsfaetion of knowing that thefe principles
Ind affumed a left dangerous charadier, and that it was now
(trim of every pretence to Liberty. It would be =dads,
therefore, to look obßinately to one object, and is refute the
next belt means which prefented thensfelves. When he had
objeded to treat with the man who now held the dellinies of
France, he did nut fay but that circumstances might arife to
render fuch a proceeding expedient. He denied France had
been aggrandized in filch a degree as was Rated by Conte of his
Honourable Friends. The lodes which the bad fultained by the
Revolutionary whirlwind were fuch as no territorial acquifition
could compenfate. We had, on the contrary, obtained a juR
and natural aecctlon of power and wealth, the more valuable,
as it was Rabic and fola Our naval and our military tamales,
particularly in the late inflance of Egypt, had riven to us a
decided fuperiority, and exalted the national charatter. Since •
the Treaty of Lille we had confolidated our power in India.
We had averted the imminent danger which threatened India.
The Union of the Sitter Kingdom gave us more fond fireogth
than was derived from all the Incorporations of France. We I
had repelled the Invafion which threatened our coati, and I
would have brought off the Tenets, if they had not been moored
to the Chore. He hoped that the new lituation of France might I
beget new and more pacific difpofitions on her part. He did I
not approve, however, of layius ilde our precautions. He would ,
ad with France as if he thought her fincere; but he would, at
the lame time, be prepared as if he believed her to be dan-
gerous.

PRCLIMINAttitS Or rtiArE•
N: r. Pt T T , on this fulled, declared himfelf extremely anxious
to have an oppe• t unity of ftating explicitly the views he enter-
tensed of the lubjeal of Peace. and the grounds on whirls theft:
views reIIIc3. He confidered, that for no fmall length of tinier...ft,
whatever miedn have bean the different fhades and gradations
of .pinion at other period of the War, at the prefent moment
all thinking men were convinced that the event of War or Pcace
was now become a quellion of mere temis, and no odier. Af-
ter the conelufion of Peace between France and the Great Con-
tinental Allies, after the total diffolution of the Confederacy
aloft France, he was free to avow, that the quellion of War
or Peace became a meta- queflinn of vine; and that, tru. sin
cumftanced. he wait more anxious about the character of the
Peace, as a/eating r'tinnal chances. than for any thing elf.. It
was the bounden duty or every Government to endeavour to
obtain the bed terms the. nollibly could ; but in his view oldie
hufinea he fhould prefer, in a cafe like the present. indeed of
labouring a. thatch a point, and to carry it with a lordly hand,
to dole upon terms even then of what the fair pretenfions of
the country might warrant, provided they were compatible with
its charadter and honour. On this ground, as long as he eon-
, tiaut.l salient the honour of .7. feat in his Majcity's Councils,
Mould not feruble to give it as his opinion, that in a canted,
weer.. the whole face and view af things were completely re-
veered the retention of all the conquelts we had made would
Dot ieftify the continuance of the War. The meat polut for
temilderation was, what defcription of terms we had a right to
tape& and to which we ought to accede ? He had already dat-
ed, that it was not wife nor expedient, in fuels cafes, to drive
for the retention of acquifitinns which were of no folid acre to
us--which we did not materially want; but satires to confine
our views to the true lourreof our legitimate and ancientftrength.
The next queftion would involve, to what particular quarter
of the worldwe ought to direct our principal attention ? fn an-
fwer to this he fhould reply, that our principal actpdritions re-
lated either to the Mediterranean, or to the Eall or Welt in-
dhas. Now, in his opinion, whatever appertained to the Me-
diterranean ought to be regarded as matter of mere fecondary
ffnport, if planed" in contrail with our poifeffions in the Lilt or
Weft Indies. The main point to which our thought anti mod
iffiduout tare ought to he diretted, regarded the commerce of
Great Britain, its internal and its foreign trade ,and confequent-
ly mull eminently embrace our ratt and Wen India poffeffions.
Thee, in Left, canftittited the saelafprings of our ftrength.—
It was with hint a grand and leading niaxim,neither to mortify
the pride, nor excite the pardon of an enemy. Ou this ground,
the reftitution of Malta to Its original owners appeared to him
a wife and falutary meafore. We were no long. r borne nut by
jußice in taking Malia.hut beeaufe It was unjuftly wrefted front
its rightful inheritors, and taken poffeffion of by the French.
With refpeal to hlMriera, that hand had for four Lac:live
wins, in the comic of the prefent century, fallen uniformly
with the commencement of each war, Into the hands of which-
rect. Power harqweed to eoffefs the marina furirriority. During
the continuance 01 Peace, Minorca se tan oSji.ift of (mall ins-
portanca ; on the ether hand, dining chewer, it can neither hc
feeured, nor tiled to any paramoant advantaee. He acknowledg-
ed that it gave him eonlidcrable regret that eireundlanc, v of an
imperious ne-ire preventel our read:axe poi effion of Malta.
Hut as this conk: not he done, it was net:mall eaufe of exultation,
that, in parting wait it, Great Britain rellored it, not to the
enemy.. not to any dubious rower, but to the rightful claimants
the Knights of Maka. lie was further free to admit, that the
retention of the Cape of Good Hope was a defirahle °Ned
but, however dehr.. 'le in itfelf, it formed an objefft of compa-
raive value. When placed in the balance with Ceylon, its
claims armed a very differen. anted ; the one was a pollen-ton
of converience ; the othe- of abfo'nte n •.cealty and indifpenfa-
ble requifiiion to the fccuri•e of BMtith India. Cochin eat the
next point on which lie thould atumadvert. He was ready to
admit that fume clverfity of opinion obtained vresn this point.
Th,re were two Mods of authorities upon this fubjedt the
Mercantile and the Military uttered lager was he to pay, he
weedd not fay the relish., but the kb! due to the molt confuin-
mate ofranbLage, aiding in roncert with the molt confummate
exertion of talent. Tie Mar juts Corn es name r tp. ct-
rl and paid homage to by every dais of the Community. from
the hiaheft to the lowest—was juftly confidered and acknow-
kdred as the Saviour of India, a title which had heeti juftly re-
duplicated to him for his tratifeaidant miseries in the Viceroy-
thip of !retard After paying homage to the charade• of this
illoariou! Nobleman, ht. fel: It the miller to xprefs his differ-
ence of fentintent on a mere point of opinion ; be mud, there-
fore, (taint the privacae of raying, that the ftreft and hart-t-
-enee placed upon Cochin wire over-rated front coialeaeucim.
Whin: we Cad a tot mioablu foe to caeountar in the perfon of
the late Timm bultausi-o-whiUL our hatft India poreffians were •DDRIS S.
ft.oe of being 'tuna:AA, the poffellion of Cochin might he Sir WI eLI ANIMA RTOP brought up then port of
an objedt of extreme importance. Set fusee the defaat of Tip-
the Committee on the Addrefs.
pen, fr•re the total difeomfiture of the plans erg ndered by
1 rereh Polities. and adopted by Mimic Craft, the importance Lord Ti at rt.! fail, lie would trouble the Houle
o. Cochin no !anger retained that:leo:la:ley wych i t•rmerly with only a few words. The Noble Secretary of
did. The value of Cochin might be belt Illuftrated by comps- State had told the Houfe, that the Treaty figned
rifon. He would place it liv wa' of elucidation, on a par with
Ee no toe 29th of Setember, between France and
wick-upm-Tweed. WhiUt 'England and Scotland Were at p
variance, whilst the formed dinereet kingdoms 1,
and wetht rortu.gail, was to he relinquiffied altogether, and
,
different int, tells maintained the Town of Berwick-upon- that the Treaty of Badajos was that which the
1 weed as a trontier town, it was u, objedt of the utmoft French Republic was to abide by, yet a paragraph
por:anee. But when the two kingdoms became united under ,
appeared lately the rirorilleur, a paper allowed
Otleconimcaaticf, its political importance dwindled away.—
was to be the official journal of the l• Ira Conful, which Prerifely the fame was it with Cochin. Whilft Tippoo
able to maintain the difpute, to tope with the Englifie and ham. Rated, that the ratification of that very Treaty
raft the Company. Cochin was doubdefs an °bled of maani- figned on the 29111 of September, had arm rived.
mar. but after the death of Tippoo, after the incorporation I Lord HAWlttilittle laid, his Ma ell
of loch a large additional track of country to the Brine, fettle- y
mand ?lasi no notification of any fuch ratification having meo, Cochin no looter maintained its original importance
• or our wen India acquitttoni. he was gl.:d to finals taken place ; but if what the Noble Lord had Rated :
is pr aid terms. The idand of Traiidad. as a naval (talon, I was really the cafe, it could make no alteration in I
wa, toperior to any Other, even than Manitique hide Was ! the Preliminaries figned between this country and I
b• at liberty to have his own choice of the fourlOand-, of Mar • ,1
timmque. St. Lucia. Guadeloupe, and Trinidad, the latter thoidd France, by which, as lie bad before Rated to the
be his choice. Thus tar, then, he was perfcetly raddled with I Houfe, the fituation of Portugal was to remain as
the terms. With terra to the Ottoman Porte, be was happy I fettled by the Treaty of Badajos.
to fay. that this country and trot only fulfilled its eineztem.r.:s Sir H. LASCILLPS flirt, he wifficd it to be under-
wit h the molt f:: urn omelet haiasit eve doze: mere than
floodthat be haft night voted for the Addrcfs, OM
i• hero , 1 w•a •
it weatbonne to p. 'rims. Ihe recovery of 1 , apt had certainly
lt • • ,anion ne the Ta,aia; b,„ his opinion that l'eace would be beneficial to the
it was I siglith val nie, itacipliniai,:ijial • country I yet he could not rejoice at the Prelim?.
en.rey. ciar not toil), late the 'rani, bet fully aceomplithed the naries—he confeffed he felt a degree of anxiet
work. Thi.e r :4W a fls rious prom of the regard yand apprehenlion, and he ti tilled Minifters would
whirl, w p..i :•nth.- perform se. c tit taeal faith, which paean-
irterrty iionitil init. lit the fi.ranatica, ia the r -ak e fuck Rcpt as would prevent the growth of fuch
leer • f.•• • v n 'ri • I'. e ,a.it riven an midi principles as were inimical to the Conßitution of
n : •r• cbr ut,crrr P^r, • pr. riudinp a '-nnnere ' this Country and the happinefi of the People.
ts• •: y• I r.bi. • . ha..., been priduetive ul the Nir.ty , „HA m. •w.
ilh, Sir; at prefent to fayonly
..1 to, IVish to es, , ‘,„ '"
o, iaaae.,, a • ev, etaaa ant. howev, r, meke , a Wnl des which appear to me the more
afc^hag t eifary firm what pallid in thedebatc of lafk night.
-i• y • ••,•).••••to•i•--i•.fitt. the 0.0 t., of the l'on- }'rem every siiinL, that I then heard and Caw. I lie
.; we i•_.,-.lw'a, dir lined lilarAde I dill greater reaton than I had pi evintifly conceit,.
:•••• . 4.! On• ae, it tiouler:oaul,
a„ Ifit s„ ed ,to elifapprovc of the terms of the Peace.— '
b.:...„ :,.:,w I.ottt al, 'landing the ten; of dignity and vigour
••1 • • 'h Fr star at: the tf a Right Honourable Friend of mine (Mr. Pitt)
;„,„..„ , 1,. , •' . ""red, 11.1 if '3s..n het:, the only inference that could be drawn
S. r . - •4r 0' • • this w',"".l
..j h f,om !lis arguments was this. th it we are com-
a, • • • • lien. nista Iv t: -* paff. I•itiea in Vic power of the enemy, and depend „
,„ f. Z. 01•11: :el}4.. • 8.1 c fvt daddy son the di.poftsion be ma eiture to

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