Star.
London, England, 1823-05-23 00:00:00

IRISH INQUIRY.

Sir R. HERON-said, that it would relieve many
persons from great inconvenience itsome.determina;
tion was come to as to the manner in which the in-
quiry into the conduct of the Sheriff of.publin was.
to be conducted. A great number of witnesses were
in attendance, at a great expense and great inconvel.
nienCe. Some of them, it was probable, would not.
have a question put to them, for certainly there had
been but little information derived from those wit-
nesses who had lately been examined. Ile wished,
therefore, that the House would take the subject into
consideration, and either fix some day for the in-
quiry, or give it up altogether.
Colonel BARRY said, that no one Was less dim-'
posed than he to delay. the House. But in reply
to the obt.ervations of the Hon. 13aionet, that the in-
quiries of the last day had been unimportant, he
would say, that he should be able to sheer-, that the
facts which had been elicited during the last day's in-.
quiry had been most important. He was anxious
that the inquiry should be brought to a conclusion,
and he hoped that an early day would be appointed.
Sir 4.IIEILON disclaimed any intention of allud-
ing to thequestions put by the Hon. Nlember.
Mr. ABERCItOMBY wxisurpiiced at the manner
in which thii cpieition had been treated by the
Hciuse. It had been understood that all business
should be suspended until the conclusion of the in-
quiry ; and yet there had been some time suffered to
elapse without the subject being brought on. He
thought the question a most important one, and hoped
that it would nit be suffered to die a natural death.
Mr. HUTCHINSON urged the Honourable and
gallant Colonel to fix a day for resuming the inquiry.;
Colonel BARRY said, he was ready to resume at
to-morrow, if the House agreed.
Mr. CALCRAFT suggested that the Hon. Mem-
ber should move the Order olthe Day immediately,
'and take the sense of the House upon ir.
Colonel-IMR It Y said, that he had never yet meted.'
the• Order of tlie Day far the bigotry. The Hartour
able GentleMati who had "begin the inquiry had
usually moved it, and he ought to press the business
to a eemclusion. _ _

-Mr. CA lielt AITT then :aid, thtt he vt,onld tertnor-
row tome the. Order of the Day.

Luau timestoas AND IikLItiPAY 011/C211116
General GASCOYNE rose to• complain of "the
operation of the 'warrant issued by the Noble Lord
on the subject of.pensions and half-pay to Officers
residing in Ireland. Such a line of conduct was un
just and invidious, and.such a practiee should be dis-
contineetl. The Ira soldier fought like the English,
and residence in Ireland should not be made the
means of depriving him of that pay and those allow-
awes which the liberality of thiscountry allowed him.
II this course were continued, many Officers would
leave Ireland, and probably enter into foreign ser-
vice. All British or Lish Officers, whether serving
in-Rossia or' Austria, br viherever serving, had the
benefit of British pay ; Ireland only .was made to be
the exception. And what was the saving gained "by
this ? £7BOO. Were men, fit for Magistrates, con-
stables, and heads of yeomanry corps-in Ireland, now
so necessary and desirable, to be discouraged, from
residing there and doing a service to the country?—
Was it because provisions were cheap .in Ireland that
this conduct was pursued? If so, then theprincipde
should be applied to Scotland, or to Devonshire, and
the rate of pay be apportioned to the various pricer
of provisions. On the ground .of pohity itself, the.
plan should be done away. The Hon. bleacher ems-
eluded by moving-4, That an 'Address 'should be
presented to his Majesty, praying that he would be!
graciously -pleased to direct that the Wasvabt of the
6th of March last, as to aiciaikniences col
half-pay Officers and triows tesideat in lroland, I
should be retOoliderar .
Lord PALlialignibl saaiiiyod it rater strange
that while the Kossee 7ingod .he ditivesioasat gene-
rally they illseobi *Mi. Weaned upon to
add to the publieltipettkOre. The Teal qtiestiotitty

in narrow compass: all the Military Establishments
t. y. in Irish curreuley, *eft so
k .was made to appear that the Warrant
the eth Of; March wasvninnovation; but it was nO
such thing. The half-pay depended on the place:
where the regiment might be dismissed, and this was
always the case with the officer or the soldier. The
army serving in Ireland was paid in Irish currency,
and why not the half-pay be paid in the same? The '
case was worse against the person serving, for he was
sent to Ireland perhaps against his own will, and
often with, great inconvenience. If all the existing
Military Establishments were paid in English cur-
rency, the increase would amount to £127,000.
and if our Establishment was the same as in 1814,
it would be increased to 087,000. This was a mat-
ter which required consideration, and could only be
embraced, under the general question of an assimi-
lation of the currency. His (Lord Palmerston's) ob-
ject was, that the individual should be paid in that
currency in which he spent his income. The prin
ciple complained of did not commence With the last
Warrant of March, but was acted on from 1815;
The general principle then acted on he considered to
be both just and feasible. He would, however, make
one exception, which was, that officers usually re-
ceiving the English•allowance, but now residing in
Ireland, should have the English allowance conti-
nued ; but at the same time that those on the Irish
allowance should be paid in Irish currency. Though
he opposed the motion of his Honourable Friend, he
should allow this alteration ; although he ?bought, as
a general principle, it was a bad one. •With respect
to sidows since 1812, they were permanently estab-
lished, and received their allowance according to the
currency of that country in which they resided.
Sir JOHN NEWOORT complained of the inju-
rious effect of the Warrant• of' die 6th of March,
which hid a tendency to alienate our officers and in-
duce them to reside in foreign countries. There was
something, however,
.in the admiision of the Noble
Lord, which, tho Ugh in his view not•going far enou, ' .
would have a good effect in a most deserving quartet.
Sir H. VIVIAN thonght that it was but lair that
the half-pay should be paid to persons resident in
Ireland in English currency. They all fought alike,
and should all be paid alike, particularly since the
union of the two countries.

' Mr. H. HUTCHINSON considered the whole
Army should be paid in the same currency,- particit-
larly since the union of the two countries, as was pro-
perly remarked by the gallant Officer. The persons
resident in Ireland had not ouly to complain of the
effect of this Warrant, which took one-thirteemh of
their pay, but also of the further deduction occa-
sioned by the rate of Exchange, which was generally
abainst Ireland. The mischief of the regulations was
not confined to this, for it went to make a Most de-
serving class of persons leave that country at a time
when their services were of the first importance.
Sound policy, not to speak of justice, would thew that
a body of men who had fought and bled, and would
still bleed iviren called upon, in the service of their
King and Coantry, should not be alienated from the
service, 'and that at a period when their services might
be so soon rendered necessary. Too mud) could not
be done for such deserving and meritorious indivi-
duals, in place of inflicting injury and outrage on them.
Mr. GRATTAN thanked the Hon. Gentleman
who brought-forward this motion. The Irish officers
paid for their commissions according to the English
scare of regulation, and why not receive their pay on
the same? The iralf-pay officers residence in Ire-
land should be encouraged rather than prevented, as
it would-be-by the r'egulation of the Noble Lord.
Mr. HUME was decidedly opposed.to the regula-
tion of the Noble Lord, and added, that no distinc-
tion should be made is the pay of officers who per-
formed the same duties and were liable to'the same
penalties-for neglect. Much had been done by the
assimilation of other Irish establishments to those of
England, and he saw no good reason why the same
system, when it worked so beneficially, should not be
acted upon relative to the half-pay. 'lt was impossi-
ble that it could be in contemplation 'at the Horse
Gaards-to have done such an act of injustice to offi-
cers in the service removed to Ireland, as it appeared
had teeh done by the Noble Lord's noted Circular
of the nth of May. He objected to the alteration of
theit allowances, because they were partial. The
officers Ofthe Gerfhan Legion received, though resi-
ding abroad, their full half-pay in -English-money.
'ln his mind, every Officer ought to have a bounty on
,his pay whe resided in Ireland. 'Their residence Min
tend totranqailliie that forsaken country. -He con-
tendlid, that by Mr. SiiiteicAct the Noble Lord had
nOlEl'4ll rig Tr to pit hiltiih currency in' London any
officers on their being sent to Ireland. He would
-gladly endeavour to repair past injustice, by voting,
that all the troops serving in Ireland should be paid"
in English currency; 'inhere nett the Army Estimatei
tame before die House.'

An Honourable' Mastistft ender the gallery said;
this regulation was equally unjust as to make an
'order, that Officers on our hatl-pay who resided at
Boulogne should receive their money at the rate of
24 francs a pound British, instead of 251 francs, as
they were now entitled to.
Sir C. LONG said, that the vote rot Irish. Half-pay
had-always been in Irish money, and the Tote for
-fish-Half. pay in British currency. He concurred with
his Noble Friend in the modification proposed.
Colonel DAXlESShought"the modification of the
Noble Lord did not:Roar enough.,
General oAscona replied 'Though he should
withdraw the motion, he reserved to himself the right
of renewing it, even in the course of the present Sta-
tion's—The motion wai'then withdrawn.

Ilan AND WM ISESIA U,OAR MITI=
Mr. WOOLEYCHE WHITMORE,. in .rising to
move for the appointment of ICommittee to inquire
into the Duties paid on East and West India Sugars,
regretted that a motion so important bad not been
'brought forward. by some Methber possessed of
-greater: ability, greater weight, and of longer stand-
ing in that House„-His only motive for entering upon
it-was this, that if he had not'done so, he feared the,
subject would not have been dilly investigated. He
-should divide what he had to say under three heads.
In the.first place, be would discuss the question with
reference to the interests bf• the
.consumer. In the
second, with reference. to the. East Indies; and in the
'third, with refeeence to 'llia West Indies. With re-
sftct to the' first; he 'thought it iras not necessary for
tilts to -trespais keg' on thethise -of the House -to
prove"tbat the-tonsumer hid a 'right .0 obtain his

sugar: on the best possible terms, and theft this tie*
ought not to be interfered with but on -considtre.:.„
tides of grave importance. He proceeded to nod*
'the prices contended for as remunerating prim, by •
the West,lndia Merchants, and the amount of daft
charged on sugars. Taking the lowest estimate ot
the consumption it would be found that 160,000 tom
were annually demanded. He estimates that oik
'these the Public paid a duty. of 4:669,0015.prrei,..
num. That duty, looking at the circumstai.ve whicv
might be expected shortly to arise wonld, eve arty(,
pated, ere long, be increased to upwards 01*(1,000,04
With respect to India, he was persuaded that so*
measure favourable to its produce must sooner
later be adopted. If this were not done, our dsmie
nions in the East would be in danger. Dotty th,..
bertson had described the ancient trade with India*
have been carried on by the importation of chalk
spices, and other commodities from that calm%
and by the exportation of bullion frOnlEutopk; tictc
the trade had been for centuries; and such it cloak;
nued down to the opening of the free trade. Severat
revolutions had taken place in India, bet notwith:
standing the lapse of ages, and the change of 4,;
nasty, no alteration in the commerce between Nit.
and Europe had taken place down to the period to
which he had referred. The opening of the free teo4-..
to India had prodUced one of the greatest revolutio3
in commerce which had ever occurred, and LA
had been found to offer a mart for. goods firm tail-
country, such as scarcely could have been imagiset
by the most sanguine speculator on the advantages to
be derived from that measure. To shew how rapidly
the trade increased, he wouM state, that the amnust
of woollens exported in the year ending Jarman.;
1815, was £1,084,434. In the year ending Januarr,
1822, the exports of woollens amounted to 1,421,611
But the most remarkable increase which had tal*
place, was the increase in the exports of cotton in t
manufactured state. The value of these was, in tali,
109,486'. In 18'22, the exports of. inaliiit4ctined 1 '
mon amounted to 1,122,3551. htilik; an increase
:,.,:.hin that short period of more than44rie million's'
'value. When he reflected on the situation of India,
and the low prices in that country, it appeared to
him most extraordinary, that, by weans of our steam.
engines, and our power•loonts, British traders were
'enabled to import the raw material finds India, and
'subsequently export it in a manufactured state at
such low prices as to undersell the native manufac-
turer. • This he considered one of the mutt extraor-
dinary ttiumphs of skill and industry which had ever
been known in any country... But while exulting in
this triumph, they ought not to torget the effects
which it produced in India. He believed the native
manufactories in the neighbOurbtad of the Preside*.
cies, which had existc.! .s. or t 1:!,I earliest periods,
bad been deittoyed. This might prove a blessing Or
a curse to :India, as that House s4trall determine. ig.
might provea blessing if they gave encouragement
the consumption of those articles which the national,
India could produce with advantage to themselves Mt
benefit to others; but these being excluded from
lish consumption,. than the destruction of their
nit
factories, he did not seruple to say, there hid never
been committed an act of greater injustice and atrociti:
The situation of India was not unlike the forma hip
tuation of Ireland. Before the American war, Itiek
produce was not allowed to come into this coati*
—What was the tesult ? Why, in the midst oft
disastrous war, Ireland claimed her right with tite
bayonet, and an Act then passed which the Soo
had previously refused to sanction, tinder what's
produce of her soil could be brought here. Could
be supposed that the same line of conduct put•sitakii
India would lead to a different result? He co
that it would be as unjust as it Was unwise to assists
this from the unwarlike character of the native. ele
not the existence of our Indian enipir:: depend ea the -
sepoys' arms—on the feelings of the porulatiostsid
on the native bayonets? These turned against asoor
empire could not last for a day. It must perish,,,
" Anddike the baseless fabric of a Wok
" Leave not a wreck bel lad!" •
It was'supposed by some that there was no dupla
foreign invasion. But.lndia had formerly beteis•
waded. Supposing a second Alexander, prevent
another Darius, should find himself on the balkier
the flydaspes, he would ask if no danger "restate
apprehended from the natives availing the/mint CI
the opportunity this offered of shaking off the•
which the conduct of England had madeintolwage•
He *mild say that they ought not to trust OIL
much security to the peculiar character of the
or sooner or later they would rue their ips
In the present. instance that change which
was as much called for by our own Womb
the obligations of justice and religion. He utak
if the loss of our trade with India could becOotrai
plated with indifference? The importance d
trade, if under-rated here, was not under-rated.
He had never spoken with a-foreigner. retreat
East Indies, who did not attach the highest is? ,_,lott*
once to it, yet never had a trade been so ovarisos!„
as this had. been. .He thought .every aria PA
pond''
1112.
the importance of increasing, as much as posil.
general commerce of the country. Who 'ctrl
at the distreis lately'knovin,sand•at the seeds 0!
distress, now faintly diacernible,withoatTiermiltuf
to increase our trade, if possible, was a positiss a°
1 There would be no difficulty. inthe way dia.'
our trade in India, if' this country would sal(
turn what India could produce: ..But nuts.!
must be admitted, or the present trade cook(
tinue. • It India offered a fair prospect df a
of trade, no man could deny its imports!'
must be the more felt when the House 21
the inducements had out to....Tazialig:
transfer capital from ibis cattily to r. ,
it might be more advantageousli, edII
had stated that
.the ancient. cciistaerteL)
-led -so the exit's:tuition of bullion lioni. 10
.in, consequence of she changes which 1
place bullion was now
.. drawn ' from l's
,Was quite clear. that. this could not Ist
Bullion was not the produce of India-r*lni
been carried thither from Europe, and Oil..
was quite clear that a trade which biattrill
cc MU'S shortly stop. With regardloll
Indies, it was said that they had a rigist.s6 I
tinuance of this duty. He asked theta. WW
and they said the right of charter. 809411.
to the .duties Which bad
.heretofore eroS!
• like the recognition of star f
I -Hely, nd-that the duties-were:the se
• as the 'West ladies, and sometimes r

'Vle, I

thence, onus;

1 nothing.

to the year 1787. He then found that titer= was an
ad valorem Auty of 374 10s. and when the price of
sager was low, this duty worries be a lower one for
the test Indies than for the West. in 1809 the du-
ties were altered ; but there was no protection liven
• usidt tot& at the time of opening the trade. Then
a duty. of ten shillings was certainly put on ; but he
waa convinced that it was put on without that grave'
cu4%ideation which the subject deserved. To those,
who demanded the continuation of the duty as a
tiggi Of the Colonial system, he would say, that there
now nothing left of that system. (Hear, hear.)
*re was nothing of it left but that part which corn..l
Flied the Colonies to consume our manufactures.;
eit should be remembered, that we exported to
ast Indies, as well as to the West. When the
alteration of these duties should take place, and he
knew they would, sooner or later, he trusted that the
hadow hoct of the celonial system—every remains—the last
of it, would be entirely destroyed—Weor,
s
hear). But even supposing a Charter to exist, which
he wholly denied, it would form no insurmountable
.ohjection. Of all the Charters for which the people
,af this country might have been supposed to be
-axiom, and ready to stickle, he should have thought
that one, the first which gave to agriculture the pro.
tection of excluding Irish produce from our markets
previous to 1805. yet that restriction was removed,
and it was to the honour of the agricultural -classes,
that now in the time of their great distress nut a word
had heel) heard in that House, and scarcely out of
it, complaining of the measure. It was said that
the time was ill-chosen for making the proposition,
when the West Indian Planters were in so much dis;
tress. He felt as deeply as any man for that dis-
tress, and he should he the last to propose any
thing which he thought would increase it. But
be was convinced that it sprung from ether causes,
trod that monopoly would give them no relief.—
' ',obis opinion, before they would acquire prosperity,
,change in their system was necessary. And if the
'House would give him leave to strew that he did not
sty this without supposing the change practicable, he
would state in what he thought the change ought to
consist. They must abolish their system of slavery.
While it continued they never could compete with the
produce of estates cultivated by free labourers. This
bad been exemplified in all ages. and was not only
the assertion of political economists, but of every his-
torian who treated of the subject. In Ittissia the same
effect might be traced, in Poland, and in South Ame-
rica. Mr. Cox spoke of a Polish Nobleman who un-
franchised seven villages, and in ten years the pro-
duce of his estates was trebled. It might be said that
this would not apply to the West India Colonies; but
k ras .prepared with a case in point, where Mr.
Steele pursued the same course upon an estate in
itrbadoes, and with exactly the same result that the
produce of his estate was trebled. He understood it
to be the intention of Ministers to meet his motion by
giving up the live shillings duty. But he should not
cosrpromise the question ; and if the Committee were
not granted, he should feel it his duty to divide the
House. Ile was not calling upon Members to take
off those duties, but to inquire and see what could be
done upon the subject. He accordingly moved—
" That a select Committee he appointed to inquire into
the Duties payable on East and West India Sugar."
Mr. R. ELLIS thought this was a question, if ever
there was one, which was totally unfit to be sent to a
Committee, for it •required no inquiry into the state
or manufactures of the East and West Indies; but
the question was one of state policy and vested irate-
. tests. In fact, the question was, whether they would
sacrifice the Sugar Manufacturers of the West In-
as; for it actually went to put an end to that ma-
nufacture altogether. Ile protested entirely against
using in this case the argument of free and unre-
stricted commerce. Ile did not controvert this doc-
trine generally ; but in this case the East India Gen-
tlemen did not wish freedom of trade, but only to
supplant the West ludies,and to transfer the monopoly
of the exclusive supply of Sugar to this country into
their own hands. Neither did he think that this ques-
tion could fairly be made to rest on the extension of
our commerce in the East Indies. There was a pre-
liminary question which the House had to decide,
whether, having established our West India Colonies,
it wassnow consistent with sound policy or justice to
destroy them altogether? The mother country gave
her West Indies the exclusive supply of Sugar, in re-
tarn for obliging them to take all European manufac
tared goods from the mother country. He might with
justice rest the claim of the West India Colonies on the
non-existence of any such restriction on the East Indies.
In the first place, the West Indies remained in the
same situation as to the restriction on the supply of
foreign manufactures. There was nothing lost to
the British manufacturer in his protection from all
other competitors. The same protection was still es-
tended to the Irish farmer for his salt provisions. The
• British Ship-owner still retained his right of exclu-
sive freight in the West Indies. The restriction in
favour of Fisheries still continued; and though the
trade with the United States•wasopened last Session,
it was under duties which gave complete protection
to our North American Colonies. Such restrictions
were not imposed•tspon our East Indian trade ; and
though the MO.Vourable Gentleman was ready to give !
up all these restrictions, yet he thought the House
would pause before meddled with so many inte-
rests. There had been a capital of not less than
on; hundred millions sunk in the West India Islands.
World they now turn round on the Planters, and
say that Colonies were no longer of any use to the
revenue, or conducive to the maintenance of a large
mei cantile marine, contributing to the support of
our naval greatness ? There were in the West.lndies
a population of not less than 800,000 Negroes ; and
Lid the lion. Gentleman contemplated the conse-
quence of throwing them out of employment by the
destruction of the Sugar Trade of the West Indies ?
He confessed that his imagination could not embrace
-all the fearful-consequences of throwing such a po-
?relation out of employment. It was enough • fee'
him to chew that so many fearful questions were in.
solved in the apparently simple one of equalising,
the duties on East and West India Sugar,* to justify
the vote he should give against the motion.
Mr. K. DOUGLAS said, the manufactures of this,
. country had been -.brought to their present unparal•
4eled extent by the (maintenance of what was called
the Colonial System. lie would have the House to
consider, that Stig:lT was almost the exclusive manta-,
.factine of the 'West Indies. British manufactures, to
t"e antoitasofahrec millions, wore annually-espor teal

to them ; and we employed above 400,000 tons of
shipping, obi above 23,000 seamen, in the West
India trade. The revenue, too-,-that we derived from:
these Colonies was above five millions annually; and
he would, therefbre, call on the House to pause be-
fore it broke down so many important interests. He
contended, that it had always been understood that
the West Indies had the exclusive supply of the home
market with sugars. In 1818, the tonnage' employed
out and home to the East Indies, was upwards of
200,000 tons; while, last year, it had decreased to
137,000 tons. We were in the habit of consuming
120,000 tons of sugar in this country annually, and'
if one-half of this trade were given to the East Indies,
it would transfer to them £700,000 a year. He was
perfectly of opinion, from every view which he could
now take of the question, that it would be cruel, and
was unnecessary, to break down the exclusive advan-
tage now given to the West Indies, and therefore he
should give the motion his decisive negative.
Mr. ROBERTSON said, we imported one-third
more sugar to this country than was consumed in it.,
He did not consider that the Planter would be the
person most interested, but that the consumer at
lhome eould be the person most injured. In the East
Indies they could not raise sugar for their own con-
sumption, and they were supplied front China and
Java. The smiling our manufactures io India, and
prohibiting them from sending us theirs, was one of
the cruelest cases that could exist.

Mr. RICARDO was convinced, no danger would
arise from admitting E'ut India Sugars, into a corn-
petion with West India Sugars. At present, East India
Sugars were competing with West India Sugars, in
every market on the Continent, and yet they could
not drive the West India Sugars out of the market„
and under these circumstances, he contended we could
not be justified in excluding East India Sugars from
our markets. Gentlemen -had talked of the restric-
tions imposed on the Colonies. He believed, on in-
quiry, it would be found, that the East Indies la-
boured under heavier restrictions than the West In-
dies. The Hon. Gentleman had talked of a compact.
He contended, that real policy afid justice would be,
to free the trade from all restraints, and let the people
get their sugar as cheap as they could. It had been
said our vessels and seamen employed in the West
India Trade would be, by this measure, turned adrift;
then they would be employed in another quarter. So
with regard to &mow slaves, who were to be thrown
out of employ. He (Mr. Ricardo) believed this would
be for the benefit of the slave and the Planter: for
he was convinced the Planters would then discover
some better and more productive male of employing
their slaves. The Hon. Member then adverted to
the opinion delivered by the Member for Sandwich,
and to a Pachphlet wtitten by him, which proved
that that Honourable Member was no political eco-
nomist. He concluded by expressing himself deci-
dedly in. favour of a f;ee trade.
Mr. MARRYATT said, it was very_easy for Gen-
tlemen to come down to the House and rail against
monopoly, and argue for free trade, whilst they had
the profits of monopoly in their pockets. Those Gen-
tlemen would act much more consistently, if they
would go to Leadenkall.street, and employ their elo-
quence against the monstrous monopoly which ex..:
isted there. The Hon. Gentleman who had last ad-'
' dressed the House had charged him that he was no
political economist. Perhaps he was not ; but he had,
in the opinions he.beld, always argued for the -adop-
tion of that principle which he though most likely
to do justice to individuals, and, at the same time to
benefit the Public. He should oppose the motion.

Mr. ItICARDO, in explanatiOn, said, he was not
an East India Proprietor, nor had he ever been a 11
supporter of monopoly in his life.
Mr.WILBERFO RC E said, anybody, to have heard 1
I
the speech of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, would I
have supposed his Hon. Friend had proposed at once
to introduce innovation and alteration, whereas be
had merely asked for a Committee of Inquiry, so as
to ascertain what would be the effect of repealing
certain duties. Now he contended, with his Hon.
Friend, that the repeal of the ten shillings duty
would not be at all injurious to the West India
Islands, but, on the contrary, a benefit. As an ap-
peal to those who, like him, favoured the slaves, it
was said, that to adopt such a plan as this now pro-
posed, would be destructive to the slaves, as it
would throw the sugar plantations out of cultiva-
tion. He believed that the measure would not have
that effect ; but, even if it had, the Planters would
find other means of employing them. Whenever
sugar was at a high price, the slaves were suffer-
ing ; for they were then working day and night. Any
change would be better for the slave, the misery of
whose situation was sufficiently proved by the decrease
which was continually taking place in their numbers.
It appeared that under the present system we nerer•
should obtain a black population. This would be
proved by on circumstance, which he would state.
In Jamaica we had about 540,000 slaves, out of
about 1,100,000 who had been imported. Let-us for
a moment reflect on this circumstance, and the mind
would shrink back with horror from the contempla-
tion of the sacrifice of human life, which had been
the result of this system. He felt most sincerely for
the situation of the Planter, and he was convinced
the measures now recommended would be for the
benefit of the West India Planters ; but whether for
their benefit or not, he must call for inquiry. He did
not know whether the House would grant inquiry ;
but if they refused it, he was persuaded the country
would say it was because they feared to lay them-
selves open to investigation.
Mr. HUSKISSON, after the speeches which be
had just heard,- could not consent to go into this in-
qoiry, because he was convinced that if the Houle
did go into inquiry, it would not be diretted to the
point connected with the subject for which the Cons-
mittee would be ostensibly appointed, but would be
diverted solely to the question of Slavery in the'
West Indies—a question which, he had understood,
was on a former night left, where alone it ought to
be left, in the hands of the •gaecutive Government.
,his 11011. Friend. had said, if inquiry was now re-
fused, it would be said it was refused because there was
,ioll.thing in the question which would not bear in-
,quiry. What, he would ask. could there belt this ques-
-tion which would not bear inquiry ? unless, indeed, this
was to be a question of, and inquiry into, the whole
state of Slavery; and if such was the object, why not
vow it once? The Right Honourable Gentleman
then entered into a review. of -the question at large,
and tontended..that the East Indies could sot advaa-

tageously supply Europe with sugar. The question
now was, not where they. could get sugar cheapest,
but where they could get it fairly : and it was not
because a state of things, obnoxious indeed, .but Still
legal, had sprung up .in our Colonies, tbat we were
to press on individuals already suEering serious in-
conveniencies. After some further observatiOns,. hea
concluded by moving the previous question.
Mr. MONEY spoke in favour of the motion. He
had heard nothing in answer to the able speech.of Lhe
Honourable Mover; and be considered the opposition.
'to the motion as tending to give a monopoly to the
West India Proprietors of the supply of Sugar to this
country—Ube impatience of the House for the ques-
tion, and the interruption which was given to the Ho-
' nourable Member was so great, that a Member de-
clared, that unless his Honourable Friend were heard,
he should move an adjournment of the debate.J—
Mr. MONEY resumed.—The Members connected with
the East Indies had given a patient attention to the
arguments of tlixtse connected with the West Indies;.
and it was not too'much to expect a similar course.;
If the claim of monopoly was well founded, what oc-
casion was there for this protecting duty? The law
giving the monopoly, if there was any, would be a
prohibition—( Hear, hear).
Mr. FORBES said, that a pledge had been given
last Session by thh Exchequer to the East India Com-
pany, that the measure now moved for would be
taken up by Government and sent to a Committee.
He saw, however, that the interest of the West In-
dians, in that House, was paramount.
Mr. C. W. WYNN said the pledge alluded tc, re-
lated only to the ss. duty on clayed sugar.
Mr. WHITMORE repel very briefly, contend-
ing that the case he had -male out in his opening, had
not been answered. He should certainly bring the
subject again before the House next &Ilion.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House
divided, when there appeared, "
For the Motion - $4
For the Previous Question - 'l6l

Majority - - —127
MR. AI'ADANI.3 CLAIMS.
A conversation took place as to going into a Committee on
these.cialms. The motion for pins into the Committee was op-
posed by Mr. H. SUMMER, Mr. Selma, add Sir R. Hireos, and
supported by Mr. MAIMBLT, Mr: rIA113:0, and Mr. Wont.
Strangers were ordered to withdraw • but no division took
place, and it was agreed to appoint a Selct Committee.
The other Orders of the Day were tbet disposed of, and at a
Quarter past Two ()TWO' the Hpv sagro(trievi.

THE EVENINVISTAjt.

to.NvoN.‘

monalle,7o.
FRIDAY, MAY•2S,.

We have received both the Paris Morning and
Evening Papers of Wednesday, and though they
contain more ample details respecting the war in
Spain than they have done for some days, yet there
is some difficulty in ascertaining the true position of
the belligerents, pr the events which have actually
taken place. It is, however, evident that the recent
operations in Catalonia have been unfavourable to the
,French,. and that MINA, whom one of our concern•
poraries declares to be no General, has out-generalled
I Marshal MONCZY.

. . ,
It is gated in a sort of demi-official article Born
Gerona, dated May 15, that a dispatch had beenye-
ceived at midnight from Marshal MONCEY, who had •
marched out to attack the enemy, stating that MINA ,'
had just retired, and expressing regret at " not hav- '
ing heard a certain whizzing noise, which would
have invigorated his old years." If we may judge '
from another paragraph in the same article, dated one
day later, the old Marshal had heard the " whizzing
sound" he longed for, hough it does not.seem to
have " invigoritted his old years," for he vaunted to
Gerona not to announce a victory oypr Mora., whom
be had marched out to attack. Not one word is
mentioned of Musa ; but we are told that MILANs
bad evacuated the strong position he occupier), and
was marching in the direction of Barcelona ;.and the
account ends in the usual w•ay,ahout the ardour of
the French troops.
Thus it will be seen that we are left entirely in the
dark as to the cause of Marshal MONCEY's return to
IGerona ; and this silence is the more extraordinary,
as the Journal .des %Wats of Monday positively stated,
on the authority of /eaters of the, pth from Gerona,
that the whole of the French army had moved, An order
to invest Barcelona, and place itself in line qa the
Ebro.. It would therefore appear, from 'the return of
MONCEY, that this movement has been disconcerted,
and that the 'French, instead of advancing, have Veen,
compelled to measure back their steps. In this opi-
nion we are confirmed, both from the Elate omitting
to mention any of the positions of the French troops
after the alleged retreat of Mmarrs on Barcelona,
and from the French Government not deeming it,
prudent to publish the official statement, which it;
probably received on Tuesday, if not on Monday.
From all these circumstances, it appears pretty
evident that the Spaniards have gained some decisive
advantages : nor is this rairprising, if the assertion in
the Paola be true, that the army under the command
of MINA, exclusive of troops in garrison, amounts to
20,000 men ; that it is composed principally of vete-
•
rans, who served, during the war of independence,
under the same General who is naw at their head,
and to whom they are entirely devoted ; that the
garrisons have not weakened the army to any extent,
for they are almost wholly composed of active Mi-
litia. The principal Chiefs of MINA's corps are Mi-
LLOBERA, MANSO, ROTTEN, and GOAREA.---
MILANI and LLonarta are in the environs of Hostal-
rich, Malmo in Cerdagne, and Romer; and GORREA
were at the opening of the campaign, in the imme•
diate neighbourhrpd of Tarragona.
Coont-d'Amsnar. is also said to have a considerable
army, and there is little doubt that-the activity of

General Monititi, and 'ni will
have rallied aronad him a .tonsisliiralle ininsber of
Constitutionalists, with whieii the iiiactivtry of the
French will enable him tb join d'A*lssaii,4"if trle*it •
the junction has not already taken place.
.. ••
Accounts front Perpignan, dated the 10th inst.
the Echo da Midi, state that a great number Of
Priests, Monks, and other refugees, who had set out;
.for Spain, had returned to France ; and that a convoy.
cf 60 .mules„ loaded with mountain artillery And arti:.,
munition, had also retrograded: • •
The intelligence I-roil Bayonne, in the French
*Papers, is to the l6th inst. A report prevailed there
that the Duc trASOQUI•itig had dispatched
sage to Mtaa, entreating him to make .
end .not to prolong Stcontest so unequal, and the
sequances of Which must be so dreadful to the Cari:',
"mut! al Army and .tn*hattianity; in delaying the
deliverance of King Faanuspan infra* Oacificsttiosi:
of Spain. We suspect that his Royal Highness knows
INltzat* better than to make such a proposition to him:
The troops of ilie*ilockade of St. Sebastian, en-
camped in a btirning sand, are it; complete inaction:
The garrison send to graze on the glacis the cattle
destined to furnish provisions for the besieged, with=
out being opposed; and but for the ramparts, it could
not be ascerraineil who ate the besiegers.
In the provinces occupied by the French, the Spa.;
nish Authorities have sent to the-Army.of th: Faith.
all the men between 20 and 90 years of age; those
who are serving in the Constitutional Eorps are to re:
turn within a limite4l period, otherwise their relations
are to be arrested as hostages, and their property
confiscated.

PRIVATE LETTER,
FROM OUR OWN CORIMSP.anDENT.
• PAWS, U.tir 21.

" If you were here you would, perhaps, be sur-
prised, as I am, at the very little interest the war ex:
cites. On 'Change you hear a number of rumours
concerning.the progress of the armies, the surrender
of one place, and the resistance of another, and there
are even more,conjectures as to its probable result
than rumours concerning its progress. There is hot
and tempestuous war in the columns of the News-
papers. }low anti then, in a coffee•house, you hear
a question asked as to the news in the Moniteur ; and
whenever you see a select party of English, they are
,sure to discuss the last Bulletins, tell all the secret
reports their greedy ears have collected,' and con-'
demn the invasion. But this is nearly all you hear
in Paris of the war. Those who recollect the intense
interest excited by every one of Bonaparte's cam-
paigns; how rapidly victory followed his advance, oc
rather, as one of his poets sang, g flew before him till she
was weary; how anxiously every Belletin was looked
for; how frequent and splendid were the rejoicingly
for his numerous successes; cannot persuade them-
selves that France is again at war. The French... M-
inister has not yet dipped his hand deeper than be-
fore into the pockets of the people, You will re-
collect that he has provided for all the extraordinary
expenses of the war by a vote, of credit or loan. Its
effects, therefore, are not 'felt at Paris in any shape;
neither by contributions nor illuminations; and the
badauds, except for those pestiferous things called
Journals (and for the sake of•repose, the Police.
nister is careful they shall not make too-much-noise);
would absolutely know nothing of • the war; and
would take, if that be possible, even less interest in
it than they do. When they come to be vexed with
contributions, as I assure you they *ill be;'./.!tether
successful or not, for the war is enorniou4s.ly expensive ;-
and when the elite of theirlamilies are taken away, as
from the beginning successes of the man-slayer, Mina,
and the fever-bearing country they are in, they most
probably will, unless your Government interposes
and patches up an accommodation, till one party or
the other has gathered strength to subdue his op-
ponent, then the good people of Paris, and perhaps
of aalfrance, will be very •angry at the war, xitich
is.at present not by Roy means popular, but which is
regarded with, to me, astonishing indifference.
- es There is perhaps at this moment a greater de-
sive for repose, and a less wish for glory among the
french people, than has existed since .the reign of
LouisXV. They seem neither to expect nor to wish
for victory; to.care nothing about.it either one way •
or the ,other; and the war will only ultimately be
dangerous to 'the sway of the Bourbon family by
goading the people to exertion, condemning them to
privations, and bringing on poverty and distress.—
You will, of course, have seen the report of Mina's
movement towards the French frontier, and his de-
feat of Romagosa.
;I It. is undoubtedly a fact, however discoloured in
the French official Bulletins, that Mina's march from
Vich back to Ripoll, was a masterly and well-planned
movement ; that by it heal; off I)onnadieu's supplies,
and placed him in very great danger, if he has not
defeated him ; and he surprised Roniagosa, and put
-his division to the sword. I have heart), from good
authority, that Mina's successes have produced con-
sternation in the French Ministers. They have been
obliged to manufacture the official accounts before
they would venture to shew theni to the Count
D'Artois and the King; and 'Viscount Chiteaubtiand
is reported to have said •that Mina would outwit
them all.

The Duke d'Angouteme disburses his 'cash like
a Prince ! Bread,. lam told, yens twenty-two-sous
the pound in the• French camp.,•the Finalite
ter, and I.suprose the War Minister alse, are little
. - • au

^

-V

I

.

'pleased with his Royal Rig,huesi, and even the Ultras
think the progress slOw,ihneitpense enormous, and
the Spaniards as ladifereot. to their cause as they
well can be.

_ .
The care "Arch is taken to plevent news from
getting into circulation is quite exethplary. Travel-
hrs, I hay,: been told, have been stopped Journals.
that convey the least sinister intelligence are sup-.
pressed,9r others forwarded to Paris in their plaCe=
so that every particle .91 unfavourable news is smug-
gled goods.
"-A Prefect has just published an Ordonnance—
for the sake of keeping the people correctly informed
—to apprehend everybody who dare to spread a re-
port that the French army are ever defeated You
know that no precautions have ever been found suffi-;
cient to prevent the introduction of contraband corn-
moditics, when there was a sufficient temptation
and as the Journals must have news, large sums are
offered for it, and time is a regular mararfacture and
smuggled introduction of false intelligence.

4, The facts stated in the Bulletins are probably
correct, except the usual official exaggerations; how
many facts they omit, however, is unknown, and
the attempts which the Journals make to supply these
omissions are very generally fabrications, which de-
serve no credit whatever. Do not look here, there-
fore, foy news, though when anything occurs I will
not delay communicating it."

Bayonne Papers to the 16th instant reached us this
morning; their contents are'of considerable import-
ance, and fully confirm the view we have taken of
the operations in Catalonia. It is no longer asserted
that MINA had fled. On the contrary, it appears that
with one Of those rapid movements by which he cele-
brated himself in the last war, he entered La Cerdagne
at the head of five or six thousand men. It was this
movement which caused Marshal MONCEY to march
fioni Gerona to give him battle, as stated in the
French Papers, though not, as they,represent, in
the "road to 13arcelora. The Bayonne Papers state
that " MoNcEy was ohliged to turn round and ae-.
cept a battle in the neighbourhood of Figueras."—
The :exult is not stated, but it cannot for a moment
be doubted, since MINA was enabled to reinforce the
garrison of Figneras, and then, crossing the Ter, took
up a position at Ripoll, where ROMAGCSA had been
le:t with a division of 2,000 men., But if we are to
give credit to private accounts from Paris, the de-
feat of MoNcey, which we think sufficiently evi•
dent, was not the only exploit of MINA. These
accounts, which agree with the article in the Bayonne
Papers, as to MINA'S crossing the Ter and marching
to Ripoll, affirm that Rostacosa was taken by sur-
prise, and That his corps was totally destroyed. .
Thus it will be seen that all the accounts, even
those received from a source the least likely to state
anything unfavourable to the. French, chew that
the division of Marshal MoNcxy has entirely failed in
the execution of its plan of marching simultaneously
with the other divisions on Madrid ; awd that al-
though it is a month since he crossed the frontier, lie
has nut penetrated more than thirty miles, without
being enabled even to secure that distance free from
the enemy, who keep a garrison rear, which
they reinforce at their pleasure, and occupy a posi-•
tion which makes them master of all his operations.
The intelligence from Bayonne contains other in-
teresting facts, to
.which it is scarcely necessary to ad-
vert, and we therefore give them without comment.
The following are extracts:

I