Star.
London, England, 1831-03-29 00:00:00

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NOM increase of expense, which prevented the reductions they had
made affording as great an extent of relief as they bad hoped to as,
complish, even in the first year of their administration. The increase
of the army, the expense of the militia and yeomanry, and of the special
enouseissions, Lad prevented y considerable a reduction as they had
hoped to make. But they had done much they bad matle such
an alteration in the pension list as would produce a considerable
reduction, though not immediately. They bad been accused for not
' cancelling the existing pensions at once. There was not one pen.
sion on the list which he had united In recommending, but one to
the widow of Mr. Fox. (Hear, hear.) They might have abolished
the whole of them, but it would have placed the King under the cruel
necessity of depriving persons of charitable allowances bestined
them by his father and brother. The abolition of places had been ca.
tensivc, and none had been retained for the purpose of patronage. In
his own department 120 offices had been abolished, which produced an
immediate saving of 20,0001. a year, and would produce a further see.
rug of 30,0001. The government came into office pledged to reform
and though they were accused of making an improper use of the King's
name, the noble duke admitted that it could not have been introduced
without the King's consent; and such measures had often been re •
commended from the Throne ; which was done in the case of the Ca.
Ozone question. Ministers had done no more than state that the luta.
sere had his Majesty's approbation. (Hear.) The noble duke had
also accused the government of holding out a threat of dissolu.
Lion. He held out no threat—he was not authorised to hold out any,
and he knew his duty too well to use the King's name without hi.. au-
thority ; but he would repeat what he had said before, that his loan
and soul was in the measure, and he would not shrink from giving any
constitutional advice that he should think necessary for its accomploh.
ment. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Duke charged the proposed mewl,
of Reform as dangerous, because it gave the elective franchise to shop.
keepers, to copyholders, and leaseholders, and that in Hampshire it
would give an addition to voters of 5,000. He thought it hardly pos..
Bible there would be such an addition ; hut if any improvement of the
Bill could be suggested, he would be most ready to concur in it
The noble duke said, after such a reform tile Government could not go
on for want of influence; but he thought it would have all the influent:
it ought to have, and that beneficial measurea would find supple front
the people. The noble duke said the reform would be a great practical
change in the Government; he readily admitted that it would, and that
was the great object of the measure to cause the House of Commons to
be the real representatives of the people instead of individuals. Th.
noble duke said it would not bee resting place, but those who were cla-
morous for reform, would still urge further changes. He believed the
contt.try would be the case, and that a great portion of those wht,
were heretofore clamourous for more extensive Reform would be content
with the proposed measure. But suppose the contrary to be the cas:.
The noble duke said Reform was irresistible, and no paltry inea,ure
would satisfy the country. The noble duke should state what ineloure
he sould preproe ; certainly it would fall short of thepresent, and would
not then the Reformers be more impatient in their discontent at what
was done, and their desire to do more ? (Hear, hear.) He believed in
his heart and conscience that the present measure was most likely tt.
settle the question ; and that all the evils that were predicted from it
would be more likely to arise from rite measure that should be
proposed by its opponents. (Hear, hear, hear.) He lead no hesita-
tion to say, that on first looking at the question, the inclination of his
mind was to limit the Reform within narrower bounds ; but considering
the subjects with his colleugues:it appeared that less titan the present
measure would not satisfy the just expectations of the country. It
had already produced the happieet effects; the approbation of the peo.
plc I:ad set in too strong a current to give any hope in stemming it, and
that was the true reason there was no attempt to produce petitions
against it. There certainly never was a measure in favour of which the
public voice was more united.—(Hear, hear.)—The Right Hon. Gen.
demon, the Noble Duke's colleague, who introduced the Catholic Bill
in die other House of parliantem, stated in proof, that the public voice
was in favour of the measure, the opinion of 36 principal counties, end
45 principal cities and towns in England, as declared by the votes of
their respresentatives. The state of their votes on that occasion w:re,
out of the counties 19 for the measure, 17 against it; the towns 27 for,
and 18 against ; from these proportions that right honourable gentle.
man drew the conclusion that the people wets in favour of the measure.
Whet was the proportion of the same counties and towns for and against
this measure There were 27 of the counties for the measure-9 against
it—there were 37 of the towns for the measure-8 against it. From it,
it was evident how much more strongly the public opinion was expressed
in favour of reform than of the Catholic question. The noble duke
said, let the measure be rejected, and the people would submit
without a murmur. That the people would submit to the plan
be hoped and believed ; but he was confident there would be great
discontent if rejected; and that, after a time, the measure
must be granted, perhaps, like the Catholic question, by the some
persons by whom it was previously opposed. That question had
been opposed as the destruction of the church, and the separation
of the countries, and by no one more than by the Noble Duke, who
said the cause of discontent in Ireland was not the refusal to grant the
Catholic question; hut the cause was that Ireland was but half con.
quered. The consequence of delaying the Catholic question was known
to all ; the Noble Duke himself had stated that Government was
brought into such a state by the delay that the King could not make a
Peer. The retiom question might now he carried with the happiest
effect; but if delayed till the people of England demanded it with a
voice of thunder, it was impossible to foresee with what consequences it
might then be attended. He felt confident this Government could not
go on without the measure, and he should use every constitutional
means for its accomplishment.—( Hear.)
Lord Wil A RNCLI FIE briefly replied, and the motion was
agreed to. •
The house adjourned at half-past Two o'Clock.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
REPONTS OP ELECTION COMMITEES. _

Mr. GOULBURN presented the Report of the Forfar election corn.
mittee, which stated that the Lord Advocate had not been duly elected;
that the hon. Mr. Ogilvie was duly elected, and that the petition was
not fritolous or vexatious.—Ordered to lie on the table.

LIVERPOOL ELECTION.
Mr. BENET presented the report of the Liverpool election com-
mittee, which declared that Mr. Ewart was not duly eke ed, and that
the election was a told one. There was a special report, declaring that
gtoss bribery and treating had been practised at such election. He
moved that the evidence before such committee be produced —Agreed
to and ordered.

Mr. BENET afterwartle gave notice that he should to-morrow move
that the issuing of a new writ for Liverpool be suspended.
Mr. OGILVIE, we understood, the Clerk having amended the re-
turn, took the oaths and his seat for the Forfar Burghs.
Captain DUNCOSIBO presenu.d a petition from East Retford
against the ministerial plan of reform. ( Hear.)

SCOTCH LIOROCCIIIB.
Sir W. RAE presented three petitions from the Fife district of Bur-
roughs, with a similar prayer. Mae were upwards of 6000
tants in the place, where disfranchisement was proposed to be applied.
Colonel DAVIES said he should like to know the number of the
elec:ora.

Sir GEORGE IVA RRENDER said under 100 he believed. He
was against the reform plan : he was for n ) measure of disfranchise-
ment; he was not for destroying any vested interests.
Mr. KENNEDY said the peculiarity was, that Scoland differed in
opinion from the members who had now addressed the house. He would
not discuss the question now; but as to precedent, the disfranchisement
of boroughs at the time of the union between Scotland and England,
afforded precedent ample enough both as regarded Scotland and England.
Mr. C. HO WAIW said he objected to the prir.ciple of disfranchis:-
mcnt, and observed that Fife was the only one to be disfranchised.
Sir C. FORBES regretted the absence of the Lord Advocate (s
laugh), not on account of the cause of it, because the committee had
done justice ; but that he might have admitted what no doubt he soon
would find, the advantage of a rotten borough to fall back upon.—
(Hear and a laugh.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL observed that had there been Re.
form no doubt the learned lord would have been in his place; but he
trusted he would soon be amongst them.
The petitions were from Kileedding, Anstruther Watt, &c. against
the reform measure.

Sir W. RAE then presented a petition from Glasgow, against the
proposed alteration of the cotton duty.

YORKSHIRE REFORM PETITION.

Lord BIORPETH called the attention of the house to an important
petition on the subject of Parliamentary Reform, from the freeholders
and inhabitants of the county of York, assembled at a county meeting,
convent(' by the High Sherif, in pursuance of a requisition to that pur-
pose. The petition was signed, on behalf of the meeting, by a person
deputed to pr side over it by the sheriff, who wu prevented by illness
from attending in person. (Hear.) The Noble Lord, after referring
to the numerous and important interests existing in the great county of
which he had the honour to be one of the representatives, observed,
that no individual connected with any of those great interests had come
forward to interrupt the unanimity of the meeting on the subject of
the measure of Reform. (Hear, hear.) The petition expressed
the opinion of the meeting, that the proposed measure for the
amendment of the representation would establish our legislative
power on such a basis as would be calculated to secure the cm&
dente of the nation, and that a parliament so formed would be able to
legislate fearlessly for all the interests of this mighty empire. And
here he would have sufficiently discharged his duty, and should not
have added another word in presenting the petition, had it not been for
an opinion which fell from the hon. and learned member for Weymouth
in his speech on the reform bill that day week. The hon. and leaflet:
gentleman, with great courtesy and infinite tenderness and consideration
towards the members for Yorkshire, was pleased to observe that if the
tripartite division of the county were adopted (as proposed by the bill).
the members for York would no longer Ippear invested with :he same
weight and importance as at present. (Hear, hear.) Now, professing
himself, as he did most sincerely, deeply grateful to the general body
of his constituents, he was content to submit to any personal di-
minution of weight which the change might occasion,—a course that he
would be ashamed not to adopt amidst the examples of noble sactifiees
in relation to the question of reform by which he was surrounded.—
examples presented by individuals connected with him oy near ties 01