Star.
London, England, 1830-05-19 00:00:00

THE BORRISOZAHE TRIALS.

.
Mr. DOHERTY begged to ask the hon. member for Clare
what hiss intention was as to the petitions relative to the Borrisokane
tie r.olice of which was last night postponed until a future
day, ?
Mr O'CONNELL said, that he had written to the petitioners,
reqJest it they were resolved to persevere in presenting the
that they would place them in the hands of some other per-
r.. He could not receive an answer before Saturday, and on Mon-
r•+:y he would definitively announce what he would do with respect
:hose petitions.
%lr. O'CONNELI. presented a petition from the parish of St.
Mary, Dublin, against the vestry act.
Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice, that to.morrow he would move
for a return of the number of persons killed in affrays with the po-
lice in Ireland ; and who for a return of the evidence taken before
the Coroner on the inquest on the body of Daniel Whelan.
Mr. HUSKISSON postponed the petition of which he had given
notice until Thursday next.
Mr. DENISON presented a petition from Woking, in Surrey,
against the sale of beer bill.
Mr. C. W. WYNNE asked whether it was possible to state
when the case of Sir Jonah Barrington would come before the
house.

Mr. Secretary PEEL suggested that the better way would be for
the house to meet at two o'clock on Saturttir, to take the case into
consideration. Some change ought to take place in the manner of
presenting petitions, which interfered materially with the public
buminesa.

Mr. HUME agreed that some alteration was necessary, and sug.
Gated that parliament should sit earlier and longer, and public
business should commence at seven o'clock, and stop at a given
hour. Parliament should meet in November, and the house would
not find itself in its present predicament.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that Ministers had as great an interest
as the hon. member, that the house should rise early ; but he feared
that that would be Inconvenient, for five hours was not sufficient to
transact the business of the country, even if the session lasted the
whole year.
Mr. HUSKISSON thought it would be well to avoid debating
bills upon the presentment of petitions.
Mr Secretary PEEL thought it would be better not to give any
positive opinion now, but that every hon. member should apply his
mind to the subject, to see If some remedy could not be discovered.
After a few words from Lord L. Gower, Mr. Croker, and Mr.
S. Rice.

Mr.WYNNE 'aid, that he thought it was desirable to err on the
right side if they were to err at all, and therefore he would not object
to SirJ Barrington's being heard by himself or counsel; but he
would not consent that he should be heard by witnesses, for, at Ids
own request, he had already been so heard before a committee if,
that house. He would suggest twelve o'clock on Saturday, and doll
no other business should precede it.
The consideration of the matter was then fixed for twelve o'cledi
on Saturday.
Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS said, before bringing the subject he.
fore the house, of which he had given notice, relative to the trade
with the West Indies, he had to say that though the period of the
session when he brought It forward was very late, yet that was DO
owing to his imagining that it was not a matter of great importance,
but because the business of the session was so heavy, that he had
no opportunity of bringing it forward. It would have been much
more satisfactory to him if Government had taken up the subject,
or if they would even now promise to take it into their consideration
against the next session of parliament, he should be most happy to
leave it in the hands of the right hon. gent. the President of the
Board of Trade.
Mr. HENRIES said that government was prepared to receive
and consider all the information which could be given on the sub.
ject, and to do all that it was possible for than to do in the further.
ante of much of what the hon. member had in view, though at the
same time he would suggest to the honourable member that the
subject might be more effectually considered before a committee alr
dic house.
Lord CHANDOS thought government had never done its
sesil
by the West India interests, for they ought to have been
to come forward with some sped& motion, and if gore:mast
would not then give an assurance that they would bring in a bill on
the subject next session of parliament, he would entreat his hon.
friend to persevere In his motion.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said that it was impossible that any midi
pledge could be given, and it was also, he must say too much Se'
expect that ministers should, in one Session of Parliament, p
themselves to bring forward certain measures in the next. Hs
thought the best course for the hon. member would be to wait ti
next Session, before which time Government would notify to him
what steps they meant to pursue, so that he might then move for a
committee upon the subject, which would be far the moat effectual
waLrof Lett & the fullest information upon the subject.
UGLAS expressed his assent to this arrangement.
Sir A. GRANT approved of this arrangement, but wished to
impress upon the right boa. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Ex.
chequer) whether some relief could not be afforded in the interim,
before the subject came on for consideration in the next session of
parliament. He thought an ad valorem duty would be a relief,
instead of the general duty at present levied.
Mr. HUME thought that relief ought not to be afforded to one
class at the expense of the other. A parliamentary Inquiry alone
would do justice to the parties, and to the community; and the
hot,. member was abandoning his cause in consenting to the coin.
promise. The duty on sugar ought to be reduced, and that would
afford relief instantaneously, as well to the West India interests as
to the community.
FIRST FRUITS REVENUE (IRELAND.)

81r JOHN NEWPORT rose, punuani to notice, to bring be.
fore the house the subject of the revenue arising from first fruits in
Ireland, and the administration thereof. The right honourable ba.
ronet traced the history of first fruits from the reign of Elisabeth to
the present time. The gross amount for ten years, ending 1810, of
tint fruits, was only 3,0001. and for the last ten years, ending 1830,
it was s,oool.—This was owing to a most inadequate valuation
made in the time of Elizabeth, and which, of necessity, was now
still more inadequate. The bishoprick of Derry paid in first
fruits only :2101. a.year, although the richest in Ireland, while
the see of Rochester, the poorest in England, paid 3201. and the
richest see in England paid as much as the whole revenue of first
fruits in Ireland. The honourable baronet concluded by moving
a stiles of resolutions declaratory of the facts stated in his speech.
Lord F. L. GOWER said, he did not pretend to give any legal
opinion on the question, but he understood that no new valuation of
these first fruits could take place according to the existing law. He
therefore contended that the right hon. gent. was not justified la
calling on the house to affirm the allegations set forth In the resole.
dens. They had not the right to deal with the establishment of
Ireland in the peculiar manner requited. The first fruits were es.
tablished for the benefit of the clergy, and not of the community.
Under all these circumstances, he felt himself called upon to move
the previous question.
Mr 8. RICE said he had before supported the proposition of the
right bon. baronet on this subject; and he should now have the,
pleasure of again pursuing the like course. Ills opinions were,
if possible, strengthened • but though the arguments against the
motion were repeated that did not strike him to come .with ad.
.ditional force. If the government not,
undertake that the ques.l
non should go to a jury, he was quite cure that his right honour.'
able friend would withdraw his resolutions ; if they did not theta
be must doubt their sincerity. Was this asking too much ? It
was not adopting a course of spoliation, nor that which was
different from what was done in England. The adoption of This
motion would be useful to the people and thechurch. It was founded,
on eight previously existing. He had the authority of Lord Mary.
beMugh, the Primate of Ireland, Ike. in support of the proposition
now submitted. He did not want to divert chutch property from
SlMMisatical Re wanted it to be distinctly so devoted ;
iillhe was gLttlto say that the church of Ireland was daily ins.
proving.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he had before
had to steel Lotions of like intact with the present, and therefor*
it would be tinnecessery for him to detain the house at any length
en the meat occasion. His noble friend had fairly met the qui&
riiv,
don ; the would not warrant the doctrine of the resolutions. If
the/ were they.irould alter the whole coulee of proceedings
In such cases. was said that It would not be requiring a course
diferent from what was adopted in England.;. but he denied that
such was the result. He wag glad to have had the sanction of the
hon. member us to the stet* if the duch•ls.lreland. He must
concur In the motion of itin neble Mend.

Sit J. NEWPORT replied. Would the taiwisters allow the
rito hers the bee* of a judicial. replan ?—(hear.) If
ge:vilern were so ceeildent that they wee right, why did
they defile this %sip-4116u► heir.). •
_llir wield ma harm,
till he saw ii; that the bout ;sold eweedee tie midis he the
previous teeedew.—Thylostele divided.
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Sir CHARLES WETHEKELL postponed his motion regarding
the Court of Chancery generally.
Mr. BROUGHA 74 said he hoped Government would state whe.
ther they meant to afford the house an opportunity of discussing
tber subject of improvement in the practice of the Court of Chan-
cery during the present 'session.
Mr. .11. A. TAYLOR hoped the session would not be allowed
to pass over without diremdon.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said he should on Thursday give notice of
a motion on the subject.

BUIMILE COMPANIES.
Mr. DUODA LE after detailing the circumstances which gave
rise to the Birmingham and London Junction Canal Company, ob-
served, that the solicitor to the said company had lodged, in the
Private Bill Office of the House of Commons, a subscription list of
shareholdersi which was not founded in tact, in order to obtain an
act of parliament in behalf of the undertaking ; the hon. member
concluded by moving, as an addition to the standing orders of the
house, in order to prevent a recurrence of such matters, that all
subscription; lists to be lodged in the Private Bill Office, do in
tore contain the Christian names and placta of residence, together
with the profession or calling of the parties whose names are in.
iterted, and that a deed of settlement be executed previous to the
second reading of the hilL
Mr. BENSON supported the motion, and inquired whether,
as a question of privilege, it might be postponed to another day.
The SPEAKER begged to refer hon. members to the report of
the committee on the transaction alluded to, and deal with the guts.
tion as it appeared to them best.
Mr. DUGDALE then moved that T. 11. Lee, of the Binning-
ham and London Canal Company, be summoned to the bar of the
house, and there reprimanded for his very culpable conduct in cer.
tain transactions conneet.d with the said company.
After some conversation, in which the Speaker, Mr. Wynn, Mr.
Hume, and Mr. Brougham. took part, as to a point of order,
On the motion of 111 r. IIUME, the consideration of both ques.
tions was postponed till Thursday.
Lord LOWTHER moved for leave to bring in a Bill for ascer-
taining the boundaries of Deane Forest.
Mr. W. HARVEY opposed the
After a few words from Mr. BROUGHAM and Mr. FCARLETT,
I leave was given to bring in the bill.

ADMINISTRATION Or JUSTICE.
Mr. O'CONNELL was of opinion, in consequence of the late.
ness of the hour, that consideration of the above question should be
postponed till another day.
Mr. BROUGH A3l objected to any postponement. It was quite
a modern innovation to postpone the consideration of questions of
such importance at twelve o'clock.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that the present was quite a prelimi.
nary measure—three weeks had already been lost—and consideration
of it ought NOW to proceed.
After a few words from Mr. W. Harvey, Mr. Brougham, Mr.
Fyshe Palmer, and Sir M. W. Ridley,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that the present was no
bill, hut a recommendation from the crown to take the subject of
administration of justice into consideration.
Mr. 11U3111 thought no case for additional Judges was made
out; and he was afraid, that the step now proposed would pledge
the house to the measure. As for the objection made to the time
spent in presenting petitions, he did not understand; were they to
meet merely to vote money, and not to hear the pethions of the
people? He thought the house should not enter on the discussion
at one o'clock in the morning.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, agreeing to the resolu-
tion, pledged the house to nothing more then enabling his majesty
to pay the judges, should the house think their appointment ne.
The house went into the committee.

Sir A. GRANT read his majesty's message, in which he ex-
pressed his reliance on the house to make provision for the new
judges to be appointed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the judges'
salaries at present were 5,5001. He meant to propose that the sa-
lades of the new judges should be 5,000 L The right hon. gentle-
man moved a resolution, that the house would make a provision for
the salaries of three new judges, at 5,0001. a year each.
Mr. HUME said he thought the salary of 5,0001. was too high
for the present circumstances of the country. He would move that
4,0001. be substituted.

Mr. BROUGHAM said he bad opposed the increase of the
Judges' salary to 5,5001. and had then proposed that it should be
5,0001. He should now agree to the sum proposed. The appoint.
ment of the Judges, and the amount of salary, could be opposed
in various stages of the bill to be brought in.
Mr. BRIGHT thought the salary of the new Judges should be
5,0001. a-year ; and that, for the purpose of full discussion, the
bill should be divided into three bills.
11r. HUAI E thought, that as his bon. and learned friend thought
6,0001. a sufficient salary in the days of prosperity, he should agree
with him in thinking 4,0001. sufficient at present. He moved an
amendment, that his majesty be enabled to grant an annual salary,
not exceeding 4,0001. to any new judges, to be appointed, not ex-
ceeding three in the whole.
Lord ALTHORP wished not to oe understood as agreeing to the
high salary of 5,0001. If it should appear that 4,5001. would be
sufficient to procure the best abilities in judges, he would not in the
future stages of the bill vote for a higher salary.
Mr. PEEL said the honourable gentleman's measure ought to
extend to all future Judges, and not to make the three new Judges
different from all the rest. At the same time he thought such an
alteration in Judgaw salaries at present was not eligible.
Mr. O'CONNELL thought 4,000/. would be sufficient, and it
would be laying down a scale for the salaries of all future Judges.
Mr. F. PALSIER said, the Judges' salaries now would purchase
one-third more than when they were raised--4,000L was now fully
equal to 5,0001. then. He would support the amendment.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the expenses of a judge
now were not less than five years ago. He was confident the best
men in Westminster Hall could not be had for 4,0001. unless at a
time of life when they ought to retire from public life altogether.
Mr. HUJIIE was confident that 99 out of 100 out of the walls of,
that house, would think 4,0001. a year a sufficient salary. He should
take the opinion of the house on the point at a future stage of the
proceeding.—The resolution was agreed to.
A resolution that his Majesty be enabled to grant to the judges
to be so appointed the same retired allowances as to the present
judges, was also agreed to.
The house resumed. The report was ordered to be received on
Thursday next.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said. It would be necessary to
add sonic other clauses to the bill, for the purpose of making can.
pensation to persons whose interests would be affected by the bill.
lie should then propose, that the bill bere-committed, and printed;
and, after that, it should be fully discussed the first open day.
Mr. HUME hoped the Attorney-General would name the per-
sons in the bill who were to receive compensation, as otherwise it
would lead to abuse.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said three or four of theVicich
Judges would be entitled to compensation, and he should have no
objection to name them ; but he could not name all the persons
who would be entitled.

The Insolvent Debtors' Bill was read a third time and passed.
The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the house ad.
journal at Two o'Clock.