Star.
London, England, 1831-08-18 00:00:00

EMANCIPATION OP stA7£s.

Mr. BURGE inquired whether any provision was made
for those Crown slaves about to be emancipated at Antigua,
Demerara, Ikrhice. &e.
Lord HOWICK answered in the affirmative. No appre-
hensions were to be dreaded from this emancipation ; 371
negroes had been emancipated at Antigua, and they had
conducted themselves is the mast exemplary manner, (cheers)
then was there any dread to be entertained respecting Si cre-
ole% ? ( Hear.) Those moles had cost the country upwards
of 4001 ; they and the negmel upwards of 6,0001. That
experce would now be spared. A similar course would be
pursued respecting the Crown slaves in Demerara and Anti-
ppm : and of the conduct of those parties several authorities
spoke most highly. They were prepared for a state of free-
r!om ; they were imiustrious, skilful. and educated; and the
govirmitent held, that when they were prepared for free-
dent no right existed to keep them any larger in slavery.—
(Hear, hear.)
NIL II U U R was rejoiced at what the g, vernment bad
Anne ; ten years ago he had stated and proved that these
.Lees were capable of maintaining themselves, and of con.
dociieg theri•eives properly.
Lord 110 W ICK, in reply to sonic oh creation from Mr.
11nrge. stated, that if any expense rooked in taking due
ere of to he emancipated, the expense would
1,.11 on tne cionm and rot on the colonies.

ntronav BILL
hlus.2 then again resolved into committee on the re-
rig bill. . .

Lord .4 LTil 0 it P, previously to the first quocion being
ru7. said, it a-ss lhtetaled to adhere to the proposition that
treeh. Pees in to .vns a::t1 boroughs should vote ter the county.
It would hot ha right to deprive them of their vote, and yet ,
to retain the votes for certain towns would be to imroduce
the votes of hon-r,sidentn, which it was a great object of the ,
bill to destroy. iliac right 4 for lives in towns would be pee. •
. ,rrv..tl on condition of their being resident. His lordship ,
retmioned that wi h regard to votes for couhties, it was the .
i:.tention to prtv.rnt annuitants front voting for less than 101. '
a rear. The to jeer of this was to limit the creation of 40g.
toter.. lie eta:eluded with moving the lath clause.
4ir C. WETHERELL complained of further alterations
bring introduced imn this clause-
• Lord ALTIIORP said there was rot one word altered in
this clause. Tice alteration at which he had hinted referred
to vo•es for coon ies ; and he had mendoned it, to give the
esrl:eat intimation teepectieg what ass contemplated regard-
big annuitant*.
Colonel DAV IS said he must oppose this clause. He did '
• P 2 reluctantly, because he had been most anxious to see an
efficient hform 1,.11 Ile had taken very little part in
the debates, bec.:u-e he would not be a party to throning
any obstacle in the way of the bill; and rather than be a
Ivry to obstructions, he had even voted for what he
did not altogether approve. The bill, he must confess,
was not by any means complete ; and he regretted that the
nettistert ht.(' rot used the leisure of the recess to sepa.
• rate from the hid much of that baser matter with which it
IMP at present ntix.d. But, as regarded this clause, he:
• could no longer vete with the Ministers ; a sense of duty
compelled hint to oppose this clause. ( Hear.) He regretted
tut he was obliged to do so ; but he had no means, con
*latently wi h duty, of pursuing any other course than that!
• which he now proposed to himself. If this clause were care
vied, the heel:olden of large towns would, in many cases,
carry the county elections ; what, then, would became of the
(counties ? li was one that, he was persuaded, would give
• very great satisfaction, and would not realize the avowed j
• objects of the m Oaten+ and the advocates of the bill. The j
• large towns would, in some instances, in reality swamp the
county elections; and in other cases, the requisite number
• or ten.pound ItJuses could trot be found for towns, except
by going seven. ten, and twenty miles from the towns; and
• how would that affect the counties, especially agricultural
counties i Would it not most materially diminish the county
constituency in some instances, and in others, where there
was such a place as Birmingham, would rot that accession
overwhelm the cowl y electors, namely, those who were re.
sident in the counties ? He should propose to remedy the
evil in some drgrt c, by al:erirg the 24th and 25th clauses,
by empowering the Cotninissienets to make up the slumber
• art MO houses within seven miles of the towns. Sonic
wm.ld urge him to let ti.ia defect pass, and to correct it
lu:tenter ; but weru thry quite sure they should hate the
opportunity ? And if it were sent with such &firms to an-
ntior place, would it nut afford the pretext for throwing it
set altogether? If they did not get a good bill, he feasted
they would revel have another opportunity ; he therefore im-
plored the h.lose to endtavour to makt the measure as perfect
as possible.
Lord A I.TH OR P admitted that it was desirable to make
the bill as perfect as possible; hut he thought the opposi.
lion to this clause of much too sweeping a character. It was
tree freemen (ren.remelents) would be deprived of votes,
while ninny lomeholders, who had not now votes, would
have them ; but to having to go mere than seven miles to
procure 300 householders id 101. he thoeght very few such
romances would occur. But it inconvenience resulted from
this, it woul.l be by no meats equal to the inconvenience of
non-resident frezinen. (Ilear.)l lAs to the allusion to Bir-
mingham. ever) freeholder resident there already had a vote. ,
lint the d.nger of giving votes to freeholders in large towns,
which towns were also to be represented, would be less than
that tif allowing freeholders iu small towns to vale for the
towns.—(
Sir R. PEEL thought that tl:e right of voting in towns
might he much more .simplified ; one general principle
might be laid dean to apply to all towns. He was glad,
however, that at last something like justice was to be done
to those who had only been anxious w improve or remedy
the defects of the bill, instead of having any desire to throw
unfair obstacles in the way of the bill; the correctness of
their suggestions was now in some degree admitted. Here'
then was an answer to common councilmen and political
unions, who threatened them with petitions and to overawe
the house.
Lord A LTHORP said he had never complained of the
interruption being unfair.
Sir it. PEEL was aware that the noble lord had not, but
others had accused them of unfair delay ; and yet one clause
(the 8:11) was obliged to be postponed, as it was not yet
ready for discussion. There were now nineteen county
towns; they were counties to all intents and purposes ; and
he considered it would have been better to recognize them as
counties It would be snore in accordance with the practices
of the Constitution. The distinctness of these county
loans had been constantly admitted, so that there would be
more difficulty. The honourable baronet said it would have
been more advantageous to have continued the right of
voting to city counties, and not to have confored a double
rsghr to the freeholds. The right of voting as householders
had yaopetly been confined to residing householders, and,
he thought it a bad thing that the right of voting should be
extended to nomresidentiary freeholders. The lion, baronet
went into a long disquisition on the general character of the
bill, and censured ministers for the manner in which, he
alleged, they had departed from their original principle.
Toe sir...ration of admitting the votes of non-mident free.
holders would completely overwhelm the proper constituency.
In such a town as Manchester, for instance, it would add at
least 4,000 voters. He regretted that so touch innovation
should have already been made in the constitution, and be
was assured that, instead of attempting to do more, they
would find it rather adviseable to come nearer to the old in
firming a new constitution.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL remarked, that many
of the objections which had been made to the bill by those
who' were friendly to its
aftsciples, had oviparous' in their
I tier-ztosl in considering on particular joints, without
aisenacias the vie* of the whole. The may occasions that

were taken by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite to board of die
efficacy of the valuable suggestions they had thrown out, be
thought rather argued a penury of topics with them to speak
upon. The Learned Gentlemen replied to the lengthy argo.
ments of the Hon. Baronet, and contended for the murk%)
of the provision in the attune that gave the vote for inhabit-
ancy to the town, and for property to the county. He said,
that as so much value had been set by the Hon. Gentlemen
opposite on usage end proscription. he would ask them If
they thought that the privilege had b en abused In the city of
Canterbury for instance, where freeholders had a vote for the
county of Rent. He concluded with remarking, that if
hon. gentlemen, whose minds were indecisive. saw that the
arguments were nearly balanced. they caul.' not do better than
to adopt the bill, because it was self-evident that a change
must be made. The bill had been perm din such a way
as at least to entitle it to a great degree of credit ; it had
hceh prepared with great care and labour by those whc bad
brought it forward, and he had no fear but it would carry
the balance in its favour in that house, and they would at
last be convinced that they could not do better titan to
pass it.
Colonel SIBTIIOIIPE said he had great difficulty in uti.
deretanding the provisions of the bill. He would wish for
one thing to know, whether a person having a vote by his
tenant for the town. and one by himself for the county,
would be called upon to pay county as well as city rates.
Lord A LTHORP replied that the bill had no reference
whatever to the regulation of rates or taxation, it merely re-
lated to the constituency.
Mr. HOPE opposed the e!ause. He had not seen an
thing at all in the Bill that entitled it to the weight which
had been attached to it by the Learned Attorney-General,
so as to make it the Polar star, by which they ought all to
steer their opinions.
Lord A LTHORP, in reply to a question from Sir E.
Sugden, said that there was a clause already prepared which
would make an alteration in the point to which he had al-
luded. If the freeholder possessed his own freehold. he
would not then he entitled to vote for the county ; hut if he
had his freehold 1. t, he then would, although his tenant
*cult' not he deprived f his rote foe the county.
Sir EDIV ARD SITtIDEN said, that his alteration of
throwing the constituency of the towns into the small
counties, was the greatest innovation that had yet been
proposed ; it would tend to diminish that power of the
aristocricy which the other 'provisions of the bill had
given them. He instantied what would be the con.
quence re:th such a place as the borough of Southwark, with
the voters of that borough so qualified, being thrown into
the county, they could only consider the county of Surrey a
tleperdency on Soathwark, and they were cutting up root
and branch the county constituency. Although many men
were greeter reformers than him, he was as much opposed to
nomination borou,!hs as any man, and he dissented from this
provision because it would make small counties no better
then nomination boroughs, so many tradesmen of slender
means would be entitled to vote. But it was impossible
that he could ultimately vote for this bill—for if he had
made up his mind as regarded the English bill, he was still
in ignorance in what manner the Scotch and Irish ?dem-
bees were to find their way into the House. He hoped
the Noble Lord would confine the votes of freeholders of
the chins counties of themselves, to the cities, and not
throw them upon the counties at large. He reprobated the
Bill as being fraught with contradictions, and the Ministers
with being continually changing In their views; but this
he said was to be expected of any man who attempted to
alter the constitution of England, which had been proved
by long experience to be the best that could be provided.
Lord ALT HORP contended, that by the alteration the
influence bad only been fairly balanced. He stated that
the Report of the Commissioners should be laid upon the
table of the House regarding the division of counties, and
that it should not be considered final until declared so by
the House.
Sir C. WETHERELL said this was another most im-
portant change in the "unalterable" bill. The change de-
stroyed the principle of the bill. (Oh !) The report of the
commissioners was to be submitted to a revisal, and there.
fore the principle, which was, that the bill should be a
final treasure, was destroyed. (Oh !) He contended that
the persons which the clause rendered county voters, had
rather a mercantile than an agricultural interest. They
would exercise a great preponderance in the county elec-
tions. Litchfield alone contained 500 of these voters. The
clause neutralized the effect of the division of counties in
favour of the agriculturists. The noble lord's bonus to the
landed interest was,
.therefore, no bonus at all • his bonus
was an lends frames. (Laughter.) Would the freeholders
in the districts which were to be re-annexed to the counties,
have to pay the county rates and to form part of the county
juries. burdens from which they had hitherto been exempt ?
If so, they might prefer being left as they were. (Hear.)
Mr. DA LRYMPLE said the effect of the clause on
the county of Warwick would be, that if the line di-
viding the county passed between Coventry and Binning.
ham, each of these places would return the two county
members chosen in the district in which it was included.
(Hear, hear.) Ile then alluded to the Birmingham Political
Union, and said it had at present the power of returning
all the county members.
Lord A LTHORP said, in that case the hon. member
should approve of the division of the county, foe it would
restrict due Political Union to the return of two members.—
(Hear.) The learned gentleman (Sir C. Wetherell) who had
declaimed so much against the decisions of the commissioners
being final, now taunted him (Lord Altborp) for not making
them bnal. (Hear.) His taunts would never prevent him
from yielding to reasonable suggestions. (Hear.) He de-
nied that the change affected the principle of the bill.—
Ministers had always expressed regret at being obliged to
have recourse to commissioners at all. (Hear, hear.) The
alterstion would secure the better execution of the intentions
and principles of the bill, affecting only the machinery by
which they were to be brought into operation. ( Hear, hear.)
The learned gentleman said, Litchfield would produce 500
freeholders. Now Litchfield contained only 240. (Hear.)
This was a specimen of the learned gentleman's exaggera-
tions. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HOULDS WORTH said, the district of Devonshire,
in which Exeter, hitherto a county of city, would be in.
eluded, would contain, in consequence, more mercantile than
agricultural constituents.
After a few words from Mr. KEMP,
Sir. E. DENISON thought the county of city voters had
their interests more connected with the towns than with the
counties, from which they had been so long separated.
They would exercise a powerful influence in the county elec.
tions. The town of Nottingham contained no less than 750
of these rotes, according to the report before the house,
which did not, perhaps, contain them all, for the county
of city votes were traudulsotly manufactured to a great ex-
tent. He should have preferred the clause being so modified
as to make the county of city voters vote for both county
and town. As it was, he must support the amendment.
After a few words rom Sir E. SVGDZW,
Colonel DAVIES replied. He could not agree with the
honourable member (Mr. Denison) that an individual should
have the double right of voting for county and town. lie
should divide the house, giving notice, that when a mine-
quent clause came under consideration, he should move. that
the freeholders in cites and boroughs should vote for the
' cities and boroughs.
The Committee divided—
For the Amendment .. 124
Against it ... . .. 164

Majority in favour of Ministers... 40
The CHAIRMAN rose to read clause 16, when—*
Mr. DAVIES GILBERT gave notice of an amendment,
the purport of which was not heard.
After a fcw words front the CHAIRMAN, Sir H. PEEL,
and Sir E. Suonzw,
Lurd MILTON thought the subject to which the atten.
tion of the house had been drawn by his Hun. Friend, was
one of great importance, but a future stage of the bill would
be the proper time for its consideration.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL stated that the clause
would not affect the right of any freeholder ; but would give
to copyholden of 101. value the same right of voting's now
belonged to the freeholders of 40s.
Sir E. SUDDEN said, under the bill there might be four
tights of voting out of the same property. First, the free-
holder; secondly, the copyholder ; thirdly, the first lessee,
who might vote in right of his interest, without possession,
mid the subbase., who would have the right of voting in
right of his possession. To this he could not consent. Wu
the leaseholder, who had a lease of seven years expired all
but a single day, to have the right of voting? To that
also he should object.
Sir JAMBS SCARLETT said, a person who took a
lease for sixty ytars, at 101. a-year, the full value of the
land, and sub-let it for 101. a-year, would have a vote
under the bill, though he would have no ptodt front the
land.

Mr. FIiIiGLISON said. if such a clause were to be ap.
piled to Scotland. he was confident It would give rise to such
a creation of fictitious votes that he would rather have the
representation of Scotland remain as It was. (lieu.)
Sir C. WETIMIIIILL said, be should be very shot, for

the WINN Was so very bad that short work must be made of
It. ) It was intended that the dams should make
the equal to the freeholder ; but lastoad of that
k the leaseholder should go two steps where the
tread/sr could obly go one. This was too absurd to be
endmed. (Hear.)
Mr. O'CONNELL said, it was quite common in Ire-
land for seven persons to vote out of the same freehold. (A
laugh.) By the bill a leaseholder for two hundred years
might make 140 voters under him; he might great a lease
for 199 yam--that person might make a lease of 198 years,
and so on down to a lease of 60 yearn, every one of whom
would have a vote. A man who took a lease of WI. a-year
of hind which was not worth five pence, would have a vote,
not out of his profit, but out of his loss. (Hear.)
Lord 31ILTON said, the hon. gentleman had been guilty
of no exaggeration, he had not even put the Mt u strongly
as he might. It was said that the farmers of England were
in many instances paying their rents out of their capital, and
he believed the fact. In that case, Instead of having five-
pence a year out of their land, they had nothing. He had
no objection to the introduction of copyholders to the elective
franchise ; but he did object to the introduction of the lease-
holder, which he thought would be open to great abuse. He
approved of the bill generally, and should give it his sup-
port ; but he looked with distrust on the tendency of the bill
to separate the people into classes ; by making the county
members the representatives of agricultural interests only,
and making the city and borough members the rep!esents-
tatives of trading interests only. He thought all interests
ought to be amalgamated in the constituency, as well as la
the representation in that house. (Hear.)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the object of the
clause was to preserve to the freeholders the same right of
voting at elections they now possess—to give a vote to copy.
holders of 101. a-year—to give the right of voting to the
yeomanry of England, who held their forms by leases of
seven years; and also to give the right to leaseholders of
such long leases as gave then, au important interert in the
land almost equal to that of the freeholder. lie could see
no objection to tour ptraot s voting out of the same land,
provided they had all sufficient interest. It might possibly
turn out that the tenant who paid WI. a-year had a losing
bargain ; but that could not generally or frequently be the
case ; and lie knew no better criterion of the interest the
t mint had in tile land titan the rent he paid. Hie impres-
riots was that the yeomanry of England were so independent
in circumrtanees and in mind, as to be lit to be intrusted
with the elective franchise. (Hear. hear.)
S r R. PEEL thought such valid objections had been
made to the clause that it must be reconsidered ; and if it
was the noble lord's object to make the bill perfect, nothing
could more conduce to that effect than for the noble lord to
move an adjournment for three monle.r. He never said any
thing with a more decided conviction of its utility. He did
not blame the noble lord that the bill was not more perfect ;
u hat was blameable was, that they were called on to vote the
clauses of the bill without due consideration. He thought
there would be great danger of the power given by the clause
to make leasehold voters being abused, for the purpose of
creating an election interest. It might, no doubt, be guarded
against, but it required the most mature consideration. and
again he called on the noble lord to glued= for it, and not
bring on the bill without the consideration that was nects.
eery. He implored the noble lord not to urge the bill with
the haste it was now passing ; but by a long adjournment to
afford the Government time for perfecting the bill, and the
house time for it. consideration.

Lord ALTHORP said, the suggestion of the right hon.
gentleman was one of course with which he did not expect
him to comply. (Hear, hear.) The clause required some
alteration in the wording, to carry its intention fully into
effect. Tne object was to give those persons interested in
the land a right to vote out of that interest. No doubt it
was possible that the original potboiler of one of the leases
might have a vote wit►out having an interest in the land. It
was, however, a must unlikely thing, and could be provided
against without adjourning the Parliament. (Hear.)
Mr. Serjeant WILDE said the Right Honourable
Baronet had at length clearly stated the object of his sug-
gestions for the improvement of the Bill, which was to de-
feat the Bill altogether by an adjournment for three months.
—(Hear, hear.) He thought nothing but a great spirit of
conciliation could have made Ministers consent to make the
concessions they had.elone.--(Hear, hear.) It was pro-
posed to make short work of the clause, and many clear
end useful clauses might be got rid of in the same man-
ner. He thought there was nothing uncertain in the clause,
though perhaps it might go farther than the Committee
would approve.
Sir JAMES SCARLETT said a few words in explana-
don.

Mr. HUNT was glad to And his Majesty's ministers
willing to admit such alterations in the bill as would pt rid
of factious votes, without compromising its principle.
Mr. O'CONNELL was of opinion, that a franchise of
value over and above the rent of 101: would obviate the
difficulty in the clause.
After a conversation between Lord ALTHORP, Sir J.
SC AR LETT, and Colonel SIBTHORPE,
Colonel WOOD, after a few words, suggeated, as an
amendment, that the blank be filled up with 401. instead of 101.
Lord ALTHORP did not think the gallant colonel's sug-
gestion was one that could be adopted.
Mr. TREVOR said he was sorry the gallant Colonel
should have brought forward so Important a motion at that
late hour ; if he were to divide the house on his amend-
meat, however, he (Mr. Trevor) would support it.
Lord G. SOMERSET also said he would support the
amendment, which, however, was immediately withdrawn
by the proposer, and the original motion was put midi:erne&
On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the Chairman re-
pated progress, and obtained leave to sit again to-morrow
(this day.)
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the
house adjourned at two o'clock.
FOREIUN LVTELLIGENCZ.
FRANCE.
From our own Correspondent.
Plats, Atm. 16.—1 t appears to be the fixed
determination of the French government not to
withdraw the troops from Belgium till all the dif-
ferences between that country and Holland are
definitely arranged. Many persons here seem to
think that even that determination may give rise
to bickerings, which may end in fighting.
You will observe by the journals now sent that
the Chamber of Deputies does not overflow with
the milk of human kindness. Such a scene was
enacted there yesterday, as had never before been
' witnessed in such an assembly. All but blows,
indeed, was resorted to ; and, bad M. Casimir
Prier acted up to his system, he certainly might
hare sent for the national guard ; or at any rate,
their renowned commander, the newly-appointed
Marshal Count Lobau, to hare given the honour-
able deputies a shower bath, and cool their courage.
The Seine.was quite handy for such an operation.
Yesterday was the fate of Napoleon. You may
suppose it was not much observed outwardly. Some
few houses were illuminated, and one in the nue
Montmartre had an eagle in coloured larnpe,flanked
with the letter N. At this spot the Parisienne
and the Marseilloise were chaunted. Several
bouquets were deposited at the base of the column
Vendome, and one old soldier threw over the rails
his cross of the legion of honour, as a tribute to
the memory of the Emperor, saying that now so
many spies wore the signs of the brave, that be
would sacrifice his to the manes of the great hero.
The police did not interfere, and so, of course,
there was no tumult.

Letters from Vienna, according ft ;Ehtt Gazette
er Augsburg, announce that the Ambassadors of
France and England have addressed t 9 court.
of Austria a note imaging 1111.414rePtillfrf
Poland.

Letters from Warsaw likewise state "Mit ' thi
Government there had received positive iotelligenkel?
that the Ambassadors of England aimi Fiance, bad-
made energetic representations to the. COM of
Vienna, relative to the corps of Gen. Dwernicki.
The following are the exact words of 'Martini
Soek's important declaration regarding the with
drawing of the French treepe from Belgium
" Sem dente l'evansation El sera Menses elks
use. H e'en sera pas deal de la none ; Messieurs, now

attendrohe pour evacuer le territsire Beige, que les-ques-
tions poor ksquelles l'armis Nangais eat raise en mouse-
Mint, mast tout-Malt dacid‘ea, et que nul danger ne nous
menses dfsortnale es ati—(inarquee de sallesetien.")
The intelligence from Italy describes that country
as extremely discontented, and bordering on fresh
insurrection—particularly at Modena. The am-
nesty of the papal government is proving a delu-
sion, and the prisons throughout all the Italian
states are daily becoming more and more crowded
with state prisoners. I remain Your e, &c.
J. 1..