Star.
London, England, 1809-01-27 00:00:00

vinced that the overture was not wade in the spirit
of peace, and that no negociation could have result-
ed from it, yet he could not applaud the conduct of
Ministers in the answer which they returned to it.—
la a Writ of Error cause from the Exchequer Chamber, origi. I They asked of the Ruler of France, in their answer,
naily in the Court of Exchequer, " Pemberton and Others v. i, to give up, as a preliminary to negociation, the retost
Oates and Another," the Solicitor General and Mr. Hughes were P objectimortantp' for which he was contesting ; be-
heard for the Plaintiffs, in error, and Mr. Serjeant Williams for cause calling upon
him to acknowledge the persons
the Defendants, in error.—Further proceeding to-morrow. exercising the powers of Government in Spain, in the
Ragett's Divorce Bill was read a first time; and the proceed- name of Ferdinand the Seventh, was requiring to give
his
ings in Gregson's Divorce were delivered at the bar. ,up at once views upon the Government of Spain,
I to give up the very object of his attack upon that
OVERTURES FROM FRANCE AND- RUSSIA. . •
1 country. This, therefore, he contended, was impo.
The Order of the Day for taking into consider- litic, as putting us in a worse situation than we might
'atien the Correspondence and other Papers on the have been, by resorting to another mode of reply..—
above subject, and upon which their Lordships were Had the answer expressed the readiness of this Go.
summoned, being read, -vernment to sacrifice British objects, for what was
The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose to move an Ad- certainly a most important British object, the preser-
dress to his Majesty upon the. Correspondence with vation of the legitimate government of Spain, it
France and Russia, relative to the Overtures from would have had the effect of placing the French Go-
Erfurth, which had, by his Majesty's command, 'vernment still more wrong, and of still skewing our
been laid before Parliament. His Lordship said, he determination to support Spain. He could not avoid,
should have thought it unnecessary to trouble the however, noticing, that it was stated that a treaty of
House with any observations upon the subject, had it alliance had been concluded with Spain, although no
not been for an intimation of dissent. He was, how- such treaty had been communicated to Parliament.
ever, at a loss to anticipate any objection to the line —lt was the constitutional practice to lay all treaties
of conduct which had been upon this occasion adops ,concluded with foreign Powers before Parliament,
ted by his Majesty's Government, as it appeared to that Parliament might advise his Majesty upon them.
him to have been most clearly dictated by every con- ; Of this treaty, however, nothing was known to Par-
sideration of sound policy, and of what was due to liament ; he knew nothing of it, and therefore could
the honour and character of the Country. Every ' not speak on the subject, but he must deprecate the
man in the Country must have been convinced that ' practice of making private treaties which were not
the Overtures on the part of France were not made in communicated to Parliament. His Lordship recur-
the spirit of peace, following, so immediately as they , red to what he had before alluded to, the answer re-
did, the aggression committed by that Power against ; turned to the overture, and observed, that as he could
the Spanish nation, and the usurpation of the Go- i not approve of the terms of it, he must dissent from
vernment of that nation, which had then been at- the Address, which applauded its wisdom and
tempted, by nominating a person as King of Spain. 'justice.
He was ready to admit, however, that the Overture The LORD CHANCELLOR contended, that
from Erfurth, setting aside the preliminary observe- e
tue question was not with respect to the answer re-
tions, and taking what was substantially the offer, turned to the overture, whether the Ruler of France
was prima fade fair. His Majesty's Ministers, acting should at once give up his views upon Spain, but
upon that principle which had been invariably the rule whether the Spanish Nation should be admitted as
of their conduct, determined to meet the offer in a fair parties 'to the negociation ? The Noble Lord (Gren.
and candid manner, and by making those explana. ville) had said, that the person exercising the powers
tions in the first instance which must necessarily result of Government in France had accomplished his object
from any negociation, an answer was returned, stet- in two months, and had completed the subjugation
ing our relations with Portugal, the King of the Two of Spain. He (Lord Eldon) was of a very differ-
Sicilies, Sweden, and the Government of Spain, and eat opinion—he did not think that Spain was now
our determination to support the cause of the Spanish subjugated—nor did he think that it would be—the
nation. The reply of the Ruler of France, stigma- contest In that country might still be carried to a suc.
tizing the Spanish nation as Insurgents, might not, cessful termination on the part of the-universal Spa-
perhaps, cause much surprize ; but it was impossible nish nation, against that most unjustifiable and un-
not to consider, without the deepest feelings of regret, principled usurpation, which was now attempted to
the Answer of the Emperor of Russia, stigmatizing be imposed upon it. The answer that was returned
as Insurgents a loyal people, who were fighting to to the overture was, in his opinion, the most proper
support their legitimate Monarchy, against a horri- under the circumstances of our situation and our ex-
ble and atrocious usurpation. By characterizing the isting relations with Spain. It was of the greatest im-
Spanish nation as Insurgents, who were supporting portance when such an overture was made, and
the legitimate monarchy of the country, it must be made, as admitted on all hands, evidently net in the
clear, at least negatively, that the brother of Bona- spirit of peace, that no time should be lost in sliming
parte was to be held out as thelawful and rightful King. to the Spanish Nation, that his Majesty's Government
He could not have conceived it possible, had it not adhered to the pledge given to Parliament and the
been for the intimation on a former evening, that any People, in the Speech of his Majesty, delivered
objection could have been made to the expression of through the medium of his Commissioners in that
the determination of his Majesty's Government to House, and at once convincing them that their in-
support the Spanish nation, as he believed there was terests would be scrupulously attended to. It was of '
scarcely a man in the country who did not, at the the utmost importance that we should place before
time it was known an overture was received, think the Spanish nation in the strongest point of view, the
that such an answer ought to have been returned. It goodwill and kindness which they would experience
was not now the question as to the mode in which from neon the one hand, and the injuries which they
Spain ought to have been assisted—that had no rela- must feel from the attempted usurpation on the other.
tion to the discussion. Those only could object to It was under these circumstances that Ministers ad-
the expression used, who thought that no assistance vised his Majesty to return that answer, and he was
ought to have been given to Spain, and that she still convinced that it was the only answer that ought
ought to have been left to herself, and he believed to have been returned, consistently with the honour
there was no man in that House who held that opi- and character of the country.
nion, nor scarcely any one in the country. But
Lord SIDMOUTH expressed his perfect concur-
where there were only shades of difference in opinion,
rence in the opinion delivered by the Noble Secretary
with respect to the mode of assisting Spain, there
could surely be no objection to our giving a distinct of State, that no confidence could or ought to be
laced in the offer of negociation made by the Russian
pledge of our determination to support generally the p
cause of that nation, He believed, upon this sub- and French Governments, from Erfurth. When
ject, there was little difference of opinion in the coun-
t doubt the sincerity of that offer ; but when it was
such a Confederacy was formed, it was almost a duty
tr, as thepeople were rather inclined to accuse Mi-
niysters of not having done enough for Spain, than of ! o
coupled with a proposal for the abandonment of the
having done too much. With respect to the answer Spanish people, he believed, there was not a man
returned to the proposition of France and Russia, he in that House or in the Kingdom, who could have
contended, that the honour and character of the court- ! hesitated for a moment, as to the line of conduct
try required that the determination to support the i the British Government ought to have pursued.--
Spanish nation should be frankly and decidedly avow- When he first was acquainted with the commu-
ed ; a public pledge having been previously given of nications- from Erfurth, the first question which oc-
that determination, and the assistance rendered it hay-
curred for his consideration was, to resolve the in-
ing been equally public. His Lordship concluded ducements which operated with the head of the
French Gvernment to e this ne
by moving an Address to his Majesty, thanking his
Three motives presentmak ed themselveoffser of
to him ciation.
as
Majesty for his most gracious Communication, and
rating on'the French Ruler :—the first was, to create
expressing their approbation of the wisdom and jus-
a strong wish for peace among the people of this
tice of the conduct of his Majesty 's Government,
country, and to excite a popular feeling, that the bles-
evinced in the answer returned to the overtures from
sing of eace were not the obect of those sted
Erfurth, and in the determination expressed of sup-
withs thep management of the national concernsentru. The ,1
porting the Spanish Government, acting in the name
second was, the presumption that his Majesty mis-
of their legitimate Monarch, Ferdinand VII. have
Lord GRUNVILLE said, he had hoped that the calculating the feelings of his people, would
acted on these supposed prepossessions, and have en-
Address would have been so worded as to have ena-
tered on a Negotiation in a seeming compliance with
bled him to have done that which he should have
those wishes. The last hope was to profit by his old
wished to have done, to concur in voting it ; but as it
stratagem, of imputing to great Britain the princi-
was now drawn up, he was compelled to give it his
dissent, as he could not applaud the wisdom and jars- ple of unnecessary hostility, and of a desire to prolong
for its selfish purposes, the calamities arising from the 1
tice of that conduct which he thought neither wise
continuance of hostilities. This delusion he had long
nor just. He was ready to admit, that at the time
practised upon the different States of Europe. Had
the overture was made, there was no prospect of its ,
this country but acceded to his proffer of pacification,
leading to any practicable negociation for peace.— I
he would not have failed to draw from that conduct
The Ruler of France had at that time arranged his 1
inferences degrading to its character, and injurious
plans for the achievement of an object the most iin-
to the best interests of the Empire. Besides, the very
portant to" him of any that he had yet had in view—
entertainment of the proposition, without first deman-
that of completely subjugating Spain. .A. most hor-
ding the acknowledgment of the independenceof them,
rible and atrocious usurpation bad been set up in
world have surely excited amongst that people 4
that country, and, unfertunately,the Ruler of France
justifiable distrust and suspicion of the purity of Bri-
possessed the means of carrying his plan into effect ;
tish co.operation. Such were his opinions on the
he went to Spain with a moral certainty of effecting
propriety of his Majesty's declaration ; but in deliver-
his object, and, no doubt, was sincere in his wish that a
ing that convietion, he wished to be understood, as
large British army might be landed in Spain,
be
considering his Majesty's GOvernment responsible to
having in his hand the means by_which the great o
the Parliament and to the Public, for those conse-
ject he had in view might be attained, and which he
h
quent measures, which they advised and executed,
actually had attained in the course of two months, t e
with a view of assisting the people of Spain in their
subjugation of Spain. With this great object in view 1
endeavours against the iniquitous usurpation of
and a moral certainty of attaining it, whilst we on the
France. . .
other hand had taken up the cause of the Spanish 1
people against this usurpation, and hoped to defeat , Lord MULGRAVE maintained, that it was ime
the object of the Ruler of' France, it was impossiblepossible to have done more towards supporting the
,
to expect that any negociation could take place. It 1 cause
_.. of Spain,_ than had been done by his Majesty's
could not be supposed that he would give up his ob- 1 Ministers. The boast of Bonaparte, that he would
ject—it could not be expected that we should give up i within the space space of two months, be in possession of
ours—it could not be imagined that' either party I the Spanish capital, could not possibly have been in
would give up by a stroke of the pen what each ex. his conception at the time of malting it. If any man,
pected to obtain by force of arms, But though con.: however, supposed that the cause of Spain was now

P.IRLIAMEIV'TifRr PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, THURSDAY, JANUARY 26.