Star.
London, England, 1825-04-27 00:00:00

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ow" MI Ott: bat be mould pet kip die Hesse whether Mel
ffsgh" bat set altegMbre le
its character? He still was
bade W time Mk and abesid Owe, as an Amendment, that it be
reed** day di months.

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The Amendment baying bens pet,
Mr. Secretary PEEL said. hit Right Hoe. .Feisork
(Mr. Plunkett i seemed to think that-there.-was some
inconsistency between the opinions he expressed in 1817
and those be delivered on Friday last. There was,
would contend, none. • In 1817 he had argued that the
Bill of 1795 gave no substantial power to the Catholics,
though he admitted, that what they then obtained was
properly given; for, as Mr. Burke had said, there *as
a vast differenee between the exercise of the elective
franchise, and the admission to office. To this point
alone had his observations in 1817 extended. He was
ready to admit to his Right Honourable Friend, that
there did exist great abuses in the present mode of
exercising the elective franchise in Ireland—in the
mode of creating fictitious freeholds, and swearing
to freeholds which did not exist ; and he was pre-
pared to consider any measure for the purpose of apply-
mg a remedy to the evil. But, in looking to the measure
proposed, he doubted whether it would have any such
effect, or rather he was convinced, that as a remedy, it
would be most injudiciously and unjustly applied. He
concurred in what had been said by the Honourable
and Learntd Gentleman (Mr. Brougham), that it would
be Most precipitate .to make such a change without
having full information on so important a subject, and
under any circumstauces he would have great hesi-
tation in supporting any measure which would make
a change in the elective franchise as it now stood.
On this principle he bad opposed all the motions
for Reform which were submitted in that House.—
Let the House consider what would be the effect of
this measure. He held hi his hand returns of the
numbers of freeholds which had been registered in
Ireland for ,years back. The contents of the returns
would afford a sufficient illusttaticn of his argument.
It appeared, that since the year 1818 the number of
40s. freeholds registeted in the county of Tyrone was
13,000, and the number of freeholds of 201. and
upwards registered there within the same time, was
only 273. Now, he thought it was a hard thing
to say, that this immense number should be deprived
of the elective franchise without any investigation.
His Hon. Ft iend (Mr. Littleton) had said that he would
not raise the qualification from 40s. to 51. because it
would increase the evil. Was not that in itself an ar-
gunient for inquiry ? It was contended that the object
of the Bill was to assimilate the practice in Ireland to
that in Eoglaild. The Bill could do no such thing. It
went only to oblige the freely,ltler to swear to 101. in-
stead of 40s. but if so much abuse already existed by
persons sweating to 40s. freeholds which they did nit
possess, what security did this 1141 afford against par-
ties swearing to a higher amount? What guarantee did
it affo d against perjury in the one case more than the
other ?--(Hear, hear). It was said that the voter
would be obliged to take the oath mentioned in the sche-
dule of the Bill ; but on looking at the schedule,
Ile found not a single word was said about any such
oath. Let the Hon. Member look at his own Bill,
and he would find that it had no such oath. But even
if it lad, it could afford no greater security than was
afforded by the law as it now s ood. He would now
examine bow far the measure would affect the Protes-
tant interest in Ireland. Mr. O'Connell stated in his
evidence, that this Bill would have the effect of lessen•
in the power of the Aristucracy, and of increasing the
influence of the Roman Catholics. DA this shew that
the Protestant interest would he benefitted by it ? In
looking at the rt turns to which be had alluded, he found
the greatest number of 411 s. reehol ders(the extent uf which
had been ascribed as a cause of the great discontent and
disturbances in many parts of that county)) was in the
Noith. In Kilkenny there were tegistered, since.l79s,
3760 40s. fife:midst and they sent two Catholic Mem.
bets to Parliament--(A laugh).—By Catholic Members,
he meant Members who supported the Catholic Ques..l
lion. In the county Fermanagh, he found the number
of 40s. freeholds registered in the same period to be
26,900, and that county seat two Members to Parlia-
ment who invariably voted against the Catholics. Now,
- when he compared those facts, be should have some-
-thing stronger than the arguments he had that night
heard, to make him believe that 40-.-freeholders were a
cause of distress or di sturbance,or that the disfranchising
them would be au advantage to the Protestant interest.
In the County of Waterford, in which existed, for a
time, thazreatest diAress and dissatisfaction, the num-
ber of forty shilling freeholders registered since 1793
'was 7,000. . In the County of Antrim, which consisted
for the greater part of Protestants, the- number
registered in the same period of time was twenty-nine
thousand five hundt ed. He put it to the House, that if
these were Catholics, and consented to return Pi otestant
Members, or Members opposing the Catholic Question,
there could be no danger to the Protestant establish-
• ment in allowing them to retain the elective franchise;
but if they were Protestants, he would ask what boon
was held tut to them for the privilege of which they
were thus deprived?-(Chess) In the eight Countit s
of Ulster, the most flourishing part of Ireland, he was
informed, for be had not the returns before him, that
the number of forty shilling freeholds registered within
the last eight years was 190,000, while in 14 Counties
in the South of Ireland, where so much distress and
disturbance had existed, the number did not exceed
168,000. Were not these grave subjects for considera-
tion, before the House proceeded any farther with a
measure witch was to disfranchise so great a portion of
the people of Ireland ? He would now beg the House
to consider what the effects of this measure would be.
The" argument of his Honourals!e Friend, the Member
for Louth, appeared to him to carry considerable
weight with it. Whes they were introducing a great
political innovation, they ought cot to argue from the
state of things existing at present,btitgns the state
of things 2hich would exist when t go had taken
- Now he would ask whether there would not
be the same noxious effects produced by the fide-sim-
ple tenure as by the forty shilling tenure ? Was there
anything in the present Bill to prevent a man from
erecting a number of houses, and from conveying
them in fee-simple to the freeholders? Was there any
thing to prevent him from saying to them, " I will
gine you a house on a certain tenure, but I will at-
tach to it a quantity of land or of bog, which you
shall hold on an uncertain tenure, so that whenever
anelection comes, I may have a hold upon you for your
vote?" He bad looked at the Bill with considerable ac-
tion, and be must confess,. that after all his pains, he
• could not Toad in it any security
---,This Bin. is against such a practice.
. ought to be recollected, was contingent
upon the pamng of the great Bill which was to eman-
cipate the Catholics ; It was only to take effect under

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the new aragestances which were to arise in tense-
(pence of the paninig of that Bill, when there was to,
be an oblivion of all discord in Ireland, and when all
his Majesty's subjects were to be knitted together in
peace and amity. He was 'Gni/Ming to deprive the
Inver classes of Ireland of a privilege which, when it
was first granted to them, Mr. Burke described as of,
inestimable value; and above all, he was reluctant to
begin his career as a Parliamentary Reformer, by dis•
franchising, almost without examination, a portion of
the electors of that kingdom. Under these circumstances, he
should oppose the Bill.
Sir H. PARNELL was convinced that no further
inquiry was necessary, as there was sufficient 'evidence
before the House to establish the evil which this Bile
was intended.to care. He complained that in no County
had there been a greater manufacture of votes than in
that which he had the honour to represent. This 1319
was far from having etched any dissatisfaction ;wire-
land. There had been several Public Meetings in that
country, since nctice of it had been given. There had
been anAggregate Meeting of the Catholics in Dublin;
there-had been a Public Meeting in the CountyCarlow,
in the County of Waterford, and in the County which
he bad the honour to represent; and at none of them bad a single
band been held up against this measure.
Mr. BItOWNLOW complimented the Hon. Member.
for Staffordshire for his public spirit in bringing for-
ward this measure. He believed it would have the
effect of disfranchising a great many of the 40s. freeholders of Ire-
land, and be would say so much the better, for it was the class to
which he objected, and not the individuals. He gave his warm
support to the Bill.
Mr. C. HU ITHINSON asked what prevented the
great landholders on both sides of the House from corgi
recting the evil of the system themselves, instead of
coming to Parliament and asking it to disfranchise the
great body of the Irish people ? He would oppose this
at the risk of losing that measure which his family and him-
self had uniformly supported. He would rather lose the Billobas
secure it by such disgraceful means.
Mr. GOULBURN said, he was prepared to rut the,
whole case upon the argument of his ltig!.t Hon.Fi Lend
(Mr. Peel). As an auxiliary measure for the Catholic
,Bill he would not consent to accept this measure ; for
what accommodation did it offer? It merely gave to
those who thought as he did, a remote security against
an immediate danger—(Hear, hear). He bcg4ed rot
to be considered as generally approvingsof the 40s.
freeholders, on their present footing in Irelartd, or as
considering that it ought not to be remed;ed ; but
what he contended for was this—that they ought first
to consider the extent of the evil, and next the tfticacy 0f
the remedy—(Hear). With respect to the first, they had
as yet done nothing ; and on the subject of these 406.1
hfreeholdess, and their single connection with the exist-
ing state of things, there had been a discrepanty of opinion in the
Committee up stairs, and General Burke—(here he referred to the
unreported evidence of the Committee)—had in his examination
distinctly denied (at least so far as his opinion went) that the 40s.
freeholder,: were the cause of the Imputed evil. Here the Right
lion. Gentleman referred to the evidence of General Burke and
Colonel Curry, to chew the importance attached by the 40s. free.
holders to their elective franchise, as qualifying them to make "a
Parliament man." lie therefore entreated the House not to inter..
fere with that sense of popular power, without due consideration,
arising out of a previous inquiry, the necessity of which.was appa-
rent from the conflicting opinions given by several of the Hon.
Members who had preceded him in the debate. lie hoped the
House would pause for further information *before they proceeded
with such a measure of popular disqualification as this—(Hear).
Lord MILTON doubted whether the evils of the 40s.
system would be cured by this measure, though he admitted the
smallness of the qualification was a great evil. If there was any
thing which recommended It, it was, that it was a blow aimed at
that Oligarchy of which he wks himelf a component member, and
which he considered we of the gresatest curses of Ireland. He
thought the Oligarchy too powerful there, and he wished to throw
the power into the hands of a middle class, if a middle class could
be found. He should for the present give this Bill his support;
but trusted the House would keep this Bra within its power till
they saw the fate of another measure in another place.
Mr. GRATTAN thought this Bill so contrary to the
Act of Union, and to Constitutional principles, that be could not
bring himself to give his vote for it. There were a few instances
of abuse he adtiritted, but were the House fur that to proceed to
legislate fur 32 counties, and disfranchise a whole class of people?
Ile could not vote for it in justice so the people of 'reran I, and to
the people of this country ; for why, be would ask, might not this
measure serve as au example for this country at some future period?
Sir F. BURDE'rI' could not consent to separate this
Bill from that for Catholic Emancipation, and therefore• should give
it all his support. if the details were not exactly suited 110 the
taste of all the parties, their correction was the business of tlia
Committee. The. Hon. Baronet proceeded to notice the stared)
the 40s. freeholders in Ireland, as described by Mr. Wakefield,
and observed that be had never even heard of any one who
had not declared the system one of the greatest evils el
that country. For one, be conceived they obtained a great 1
boos in gelding this Bill as a compromise for Catholic Emancipa.,
times Moo the Catholics were content to take their freedom thus
restricted, the opporturiity for conciliating them ought not to be lost.
He understood that Ireland never was so tranquil as at this Inn.
meat, and that the circumstance was wholly attributable to the
present which late events held out—(llear,hear)--to the prospect
of haying the wrongs of the people redressed in consequence of
the inquiries now making before the Committees of both Houses. I
Under all these circumstances he coultt not feel boldly in rejecting
the opportunity of relieving 6,000,000 of people hem a state of
oppression, ip which they were justly dissatisfied; nor could he
honestly persist in acting with Gentlemen who were prepared to'
wave the opportunity of bringing about such great praitical
'benefits, because of the uncertain and vague conceptions of political
excellence which. they entertained with regard to other measures
—(Cheers). He complimented the Honourable Member fur
Armagh on the part which he had taken, and which would secure
the gratitude of his country to him to the latest-period of time.—
The importance attached to the question of elective franchise must
be fallacious if the comparison which had been made by the Gentle-
men of Ireland, beta een the 40s. freeholder and the Weat
Indian Negro to the advantage of the latter, were in any
way correct. Ile did not, owevr, tke upon himself to say
that it rms. But those freehholdse bada been continually repre-
sented as one of the greatest evils of the country. Be that
as it might, they bad obtained a boon if they could exchange
it for general emancipation, which would settle the country in
peace. Ile rejoiced in the conciliatory effects which had been pro-
duced between the people of the two religions by the examinations
before the Committee, which had conduced to destroy mutual
prejudices and enmity. He concluded by an earnest entreaty to
all friends of emancipation to sink their differences upon the ques-
tion before the House, for the sake of succeeding in that object.
Mr. DENMAN thought the measure before the House natu-
rally connected with the great question of Catholic Emancipation.
The question of.tbe Elective Franchise was not peculiar to Ireland,
but must equally affect this country ; and upon this same principle
'should be so extended—( Loud calls for the question.)
Mr. LAMBTON, even at the risk of separation from his Hon.
Friend (Sir Francis Burdett), should vote against the Bill. He had
no confidence whatever in the source front whence it proceeded :
he did not mean his Hon. Friend the Member foe Staffordshire,
ithorn, consistently with his own political principles, he should
follow on any subject ; but be knew it came from another source.
Mr. I.ITTLETON rose to make but one observation, which
was, to assure the Honourable Member for Durham (Mr. Lamb.
ton), that be laboured under a mistake with respect to the origin
of she Bill. In bringing it forward he was a perfect volunteer;
and although he had consulted with those who were best qualifie
to supply him with correct information, the measure was wholly
and entirely his own.
The House then divided, when the numbers were—
For the Second Reading 233 • I
Against it .. 183
.Majority
It was ordered to be committed on Friday-next.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at a Qaarter to Three &Limb.
The Dublin Morning. Post says—a We have good
authority for stating that bk. Punta= very shortly be outdo
Lord Obsocoilor of Ireland:l

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!; Ijl.-

THE EVENING STAR

'l.O

[DON.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 27, 1823.
STOCK EXCHANGE, TWELVE O'CLOCK.
Consols opened at 911 j for the Account, at which price they
remain steady, with scarcely anything doing.
In the Foreign Market little or nothing is doing.
Current Prices: New Spanish 1814, Old Spanish 241, Russian
96, Winless 731. 351 OM, Colombian New 891 90, Aus-
trian 984, Brasil Scrip 24 prem. Mexican Scrip }disc. par, Greek
Scrip 5 41 dile. Danish Scrip 111 disc.
PRICE OF STOCKS AT ONLO'CLOCK. •
Bank Stock 2331 A 233 1/2
3 per Cent. Red. 913/4 Vs
3 per Cent. Cons. 921/2 5/s
3} per Cent. Red. 995/8 1/2
4 per Cent. iO6l/8 1/4
Long Ann....-2y, 3-16
India Bonds b 4 86
Old Annuities 911/2
£l,OOO Exclieq. Bills 59 51. .56
I:500 ditto 59 54 56
£3OO and £2OO ditto 59 56
India for Acct. 2831/4
Cons. for Acct. 92% %Va.
FOREIGN FUNDS, TW Winds,CLOK.
Austrian Bonds 5 per Cr. 991 Mez. 5 p Ct. 731 1
Brazilian Bonds Ditto Acc.
Ditto Scrip, 5 per Cent. 144 pr Ditto Scrip 1825, 0/ dig
Ditto Scrip 1825, Ditto Acct. par
Ditto Ace. 14ivapolitan Bonds, 1113,
Buenos Ayres Bonds, Peruv.Bunds, 6 per Ct. 83
Chilian Bonds, 6 p Ct. l;itto for Aec.
Ditto Acc. Portuguese Bonds
Colombian Bonds, 6 p Ct. 901 Ditto %cc.
Ditto Bonds, 1824, 891 Prussian BondslB22, S p Ct.
Ditto Acct. 891 1tu0.1i0nd4,1122, p Ct. 951
Danish Bonds, 5 per Ct. 1011 Ditto Acct. 961
Ditto Scrip, 11 1 di*, Spanish p. Ct. C. 241 1 31 4
Greek Bonds b 2 14 Ditto Acct. 24 31 41 1
Ditto Acct. Span. 5 p. et C. 1823,181
Ditto Scrip 1825, 541 dig French Iterates. 5 per Ct.1021.99c
Ditto Acct. 5 dis Exchange ttsf. 10c.
BRITISH AND FaREIGN SHARKS, Two O'CLOCK.
MINES. •

MARE. PAID. PRICK PIM MARL
. £lOO -SA. la. £5 pm. £95
- 100 - 3 . •Si 71
• - 490 - - 400 pre.
Brazilian. - 100 - 5 - - lin
Milian - 100 5 . - 12 13
Colombian - 100 - S - -26
iltbenilan - - 50 .4- - 7 '
Pasco Peruvian - 100 -. 5 - - 18% 191
Royal Irish .C 1 111. 34. S prem. 1 1 din
Rio de la Plata 100 5 15
United Mexican 40 - 20 - -
Ditto New 40 - 5 -
Welch Iron & Coal 23 - 5
ASSURANCE COMPANY.
20 2
SIISCE LL A NEOUS.
SNARE. PAID.. rat& MS SHAD&
Atlantic and Pacific - £lOO - £lO
...e
British Iron Company - 100 - 5-6% 6
Delilah Rock and Patent Salt 50 5 9i * 101 9%
Canal Gas F.ngine .. 50 1 Si i
Honduras Company 100 5 •
Irish Manufacturing Comp. lOc/ I
11
Imperial Phrte Glass 191, 2 10* 11 10*
London Brick Company 50 1
Alezkan Company 100 , 10 11* 101
Nletropillitan Alderney Airy 25 4.1 4%
Nletropubta:i Fnh Cortipany 25 1 1
Provincial Bank of Ireland 100 4 - 101 10
Pacific Pearl Fishery 50 5 7% 7
- 100 • 5 - 41 1

Anglo Mexican -
Anglo Chillan -
Bolan°,

Protector Fire

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Si i i g

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to
This forenoon we.received the Allgemeine 7eitungi
the 21st instant. theE.i paii.rt Side the reason for
the stoppage of all mercjntile couriers passing from
France to England a few weeks ago, and depriving
them of their dispatches, to have been in consequence
of the' Cg,hier of a great silk house at Lyons having
absconded, and left a deficiency of some hundred
thousand fiancs- in his accounts. The Emperor of
RUSA has i..sued an Ukase, ordering, with the ex-
ception Of the two Universities at Moscow, that all the
Public Establishments shall use no other clothes or
articles but such as are of Russian manufacture. An
article from Trieste, repeats the news of the landing
of the Egyptian troops at M3don, and their repulse in
the attack nn Navarino. The number of troops landed
is variously stated at twelve and fifteen thousand men.

By an arrival from Van ie ' men s Land, Hobart
Town Gazettes were this morning received at the New
England Coffee House, to the 22.1 of October. An-
other expedition had sailed for Moreton Bay, in order
to form a new Settlement in its vicinity. The expedi-
tion consisted of a number of prisoners, guarded by a
detachment of the 40. h Regiment, commanded by
,L'eutenant BUTLER; a number of volunteers alsoaccom-
panied it, and the Nhele was under the direction of
Lieutenant MILLER. In a few years we shall have
Colonies all along the Eastern and North-west sides of
Van Diemen's Land. , •
Th.: Colonial Treasury at Hobart Town was robbed
in September last, of a considerable sum of money.
The offender, John Best, had been apprehended, bus
there were no hopes of recovering any of the money.
The male convicts that arrived in the transport :hip
Phenix, were landed in September. Two hundred and
four men were shipped, but two died on their voyage,
during which some of them conducted themselves in a
mutinous manner, in consequence or which the of-
fenders were selected for Macquarie Harbour, and the
remainder of them were landed in a healthy and
orderly state.
Last night, the Bill for altering the Elective Franchise
in Ireland, and correcting the abuses of the Forty Shilling
Freeholders, was read a second time in the House of
Common.. It was supported by Mr. LITTLETON, Mr.
PLUNKETT, and Sir FRANCIS BURDETT ; and Mr. Se.
cretary PEEL and Mr. BROW:MAK, opposed the Bill.
On a division, the numbers were—For the Bill, 293
Against, it 18.4t.i.Majority, 48.
_ -
The KINO !mid a Levee at Carlton Palace this day
at two o'clock. which was numerously attended.
The Duke of YORK and the Duchess of GLOOCRITIER
vidted the Kwc yesterday. Prince Revaanasr, the Asturian Am-
bassador, had an audience yesterday of his Mases Tr.
. The Eal and Countess of HARROWRY gave a grand
Dinner to a select party yesterday, at their house. Grosvenor-aquae.
By the Blocher, arrived from St. Dom ngo, aLcounts
are received of the fatal effects of the• late rains in that quarter.—
One third of the Coffee crop is destroyed. The ezeessive dr• Sight
in the West Indies appears to have been succeededOntralsorlain•