Star.
London, England, 1802-05-07 00:00:00

DIFINITIVE TREATY.

Earl TEM rtt rofe, in confequence of a former
notice, so move for certain papers relative to Malta.
In the fit it place, however, he faid, he thould (tate
the reafuns which induced him to call for thefe
papers. It was agreed in the Preliminary Treaty,
that Malta (hould be mitered to the Order as it
was before the war, pl.tced under the guarantee of
a third Power. By the Definitive Treaty both
th. fe Itipulations were infringed ; the Order is not
tamed to its fituaticm before the war ; a new lan•
szu •ge has been introduced into the Order, incon•
ca n. kirk the radical principles of Nubility, on
tv'eli the Order is founded ; by leaving out the
Fe .a h T.nsme, and introducing ;that of Malta,
we have adopted the much deprecated pi inciple of
ing with the internal Government of foreign
rat o. s; we have joined France in revolutionizing
t and crnverting the Order of Nobility into
a d• nv,cracv. The Noble Lord then entered into
a O. tae t of the revenues of Mnlta, in order to prove
we had re:tored slur Order without providing
for their ill r p•Ilt. arid CfillCt (tenth. for ling- inde-
p:ndence. He then rt...ceeded to (hew that a Nea-
pulitan gal tlf(,n p;tt Malts entirely into the hands
es.: France Ole ccntended that Pi tiffa, Anaria, and
wm,1.1 not interfere wit!. the guarantee pro.
poled to them, and then the at;.or renr:Oned en-
ti between Great !3: bzia a::t! Franc.% lie con-
ta,ll by ft v.:rat Wet vation., to I! cw Low much
he security ttf i.l:lita is afleCted by the ttate in
the Repo:ilk was placed by the

Treaty of Luneville I from which he inferred the
Fceffity of that Treaty being laid before the Houle.
e concluded by moving,

" That there be laid before the Houfe a ftatement of the Cern-
merciat Duties and Terri toriol Revenues of the [Rand of Malta
fuice it was furrendend to his hiajefty's forms, with there Du-
tits and Revenues, dißinguiflied Into annual accounts...

The motion was then put and agreed to.
Ea;l TEMPLE then moved.

" That an humble Addrefa be prorfentcd to hi. Majelty, that
he will be gracioutly picafed to lay before the Houk a Copy of
the Treaty concluded at Luneville, between the Emperor of
Germany and the French Republic."
Lord HAWICESBURY laid, he did not rife to
make any anfwer whatever in this courfe of the
proceedings, which he thought would not be right
or regular, but limply to (late in .1 few words why
he fhould °Ned to this motion. The fii ft motion
of the Noble Lord was for a mere matter of ac-
count to be laid before the Houfe, and he had of-
fered no objedioa to it, nor had he airy ; but this
was of another kind, and he objeded to it, be-
caufe no Parliamentar y ground either had been,
or could be Rated for the produdion of the Treaty
which it called for. Yefterclay Motions had been
made, and one of them for the Treaty of Badajos,
to which he did not objed, becaufe a fair Parlia.
nientary ground was laid for its produlion, and
io he did not oppofe it, nor did he, after the Mo-
tion was modified, oppofe that for the produition
of the Treaty of Madrid. The Treaty of Lune-
ville was concluded a year ago, to which this
country was no party, and was not included in the
Definitive Treaty of Peace—under thefe eircum-
' (lances he did not think any Parliamentary ground I
was laid for this Motion. This Treaty could not
be wanted for information, becaufe, in reality, they
might have a copy of it at almoll every Bookfeller's
Shop in this town. But there was no ground for
calling for it as a State document; Gentlemen
had no right to fay, that this Treaty was in the
hands of Minifters. He did not fay it was not;
but he did fay, that there was no Parliamentary
ground laid for the Houfe to fay it was. Feeling
that this application to the Honk was different
from that to which the Houk afrented yefterday,
that no Parliamentary ground was laid for calling
for it, that it had no connection with the Treaty of
Peace, nnr with any thing arifing out of it, he took
the liberty of refilling this Motion.
Mr. T. GRENVILLE was at a lots to fee the dif-
, tindion why the Treaty of Badajos was granted
upon parliamentary grounds, and why that of
Luneville !horrid be refufed for the want of them.
He would allow that the former was named in
the Definitive Treaty, but the latter not. The
Houle, however, mull feel that the Treaty of Lu-
neville had a ftrong and dired bearing upon the
fuhjeil now before them. That furely was a fuf-
ficient reafon why it fhould be produced. He was
lorry that the Treaty of Madrid has not been laid
before the Houfe as well as that of Badajos ; for
it was important to know why Louifiana had been
ceded to France by Spain. It might be raid that
this was matter of general notoriety ; but he, for
one (and perhaps he was as well informed on the
fuhjed as mo(l of the feventy Gentlemen who were
now prefent), profeffed to be ignorant whether
'Florida was not likewife ceded to France. It was
therefore of material confequcnce to the Houfe
that fuch information fhould be laid before them,
as without it they could form no adequate idea of
the relative &nation of this country and of France
refulting from the operation of the Definitive
Treaty. Has France now the dominion of Italy?
That may be Paid to be of public notoriety; but
what was the ground of that general notoriety ?
that would he Peen in the Treaty of Luneville,
where t 1,,! independence of the Cifalpine Republic
is recognifed. If, contrary to the ftipulations of
that Treaty, it is now in the hands of France, it
is not neceffary to have a document to prove it ;
for mull not the (late of Italy materially influence
the condition and Independence of Malta ? The
produdion, therefore, of the Treaty of Lune-
ville is fairly called for by the fubjed now un-
der difeuffion.

Mr. PITT raid, that his Noble Friend had not
Rated that the Treaty in queßion had, or had not
been officially communicated to Government, he
merely Rated, that the Noble Lord and the Gen-
tlemen who fupported this motion, had no Parlia-
mentary ground upon which they could afrert that
this Treaty had been fo officially communicated.
But he really could not conceive how the produc-
tion of this Treaty could be necetlary for the put-
pore of the debate, nor did he think it could be
properly applied; for on the grounds which had
hcen Rated, his Right Hon. Friends muR know,
that the Treaty of Luneville was not made in
conjunaion with this country, that we were not a
party neceffarily connedled with it. Whether we
approved of the Government of Aufiria yielding
to the neceffity which didated that Treaty, was
another quellion, but it certainly was nut a Britilh
quellion. But on what grounds did the produilion
of this Treaty appear to be necefrary to a free,
comprehenfive, and candid difcuffion of the Trea•
ty of Peace, fuch as tended to convey fubliantial
information, to enable the Houfe to form a judg-
ment. fatisfaitory to themfelves and the Public ?
The mode of proceeding adopted by his Right
Hon. Friends upon this occalion,. teemed to be to
feparate, and to take one by one the different ar-
ticles of this Treaty ; and by thefe motions, to
difeufs each ffipulation by itfelf, inftead of invef-
ttgating the whole Treaty at once, and deciding
upon its general merits. His Right Hon. Friends
confelfed, that the fubjeft was not before the
Houfe ; they called for documents to enable them
to decide, and yet they argued with as much pe•
rcmptorinefs and decifion as if not only no further
information was necelfary, but as if the queßion•
admitted of no doubt. They decided without he-
Citation or difficillty, that one Ilipulation was inef-
feßtial—that another was inconiißent with the in.
tete(' of the country—that a' third was difgrace-
ful, &c. He agreed with his Right Hon. Friends
that this fubjea was w be conlitiered with a refe-
rence to the general fituation of Europe—granted;
hut if the Treaty of Luneville was laid before the
Houfe, what ufe would it he of at prefent ? H k Right
Hon. Friend oppofite to him (Mr. Grenville) had
lamented lome of the (limitations of that Ti caty—
fo did he. It was, however, new fct :fide by an aft

' of the French Government, which was a new tno-1
nument of the ambition of that country, miffed
even between the Preliminary and Definitive
Treaty; his Right Hon. Friends oppofite to him
and he, did not differ in their opinions of the Chief
Conful and Government of France. As far as
that conduit went, it might be urged as an objec-
tion to the whole Treaty. He did not differ from
them upon general points, but with regard to the
inference that might he drawn from them. The way
to confider this fubjeet, would be, in his opinion,
when the time for difcullion came, to confider the
objeas gained and fortified by the Treaty of Peace,
compared with the probable el/eel of a continued
profecution of the war, under all the cii cumflances
in which Europe was placed, when all the other
Powers were making feparate Treaties of Peace,
and fecuring their feparate interefls. He had
raid, perhaps, more than was rdrceffary ; but he
merely Paid this to.fliew the view in which he con-
fidered the queßion. There was nothing more un•
fair, in his opinion, than thus taking die Treat)
article by article, and debating it in detail, when
the only proper way to confider fuch a lubjeet was
to take it in the whole, with all its bearings and
objeas ; to confider the fituation of Europe, and
the hopes, by continuing the war, of altering its
fituation, and to compare them with the difficul-
ties of continuing the war. His opinion of the
fituation and refources of the country was well
known—it was fuch as ought not to compromife
the fafety or dignity of the country. He never
thought fo, and he was now lets than ever in-
duced to hold that opinion ; we were far (tom
having arrived at the ultimate period of our re-
fources. This was a general queßion, and he
really thought that his Right Hon. Friends would
do better to wait for the period of general difciif-
fion, than to adopt this plan, which, Ilrialy
(peaking, was not irregular or unparliamentary,
of difcufling the Treaty in detail, and making
every motion for a paper a vehicle for general am.
madverfions upon the Peace. This kind of de-
bating could anfwer no good purpofe, and there-
fore he was not furprized that the Minifters de-
clined this mode of difcuffing, the fubjea, and
waited for the day appointed fnr taking the Treaty
into confederation.

Mr. WINDHAM contended, that we could not
argue fo well upon the Treaty of Luneville, nor
make fuch ufe of it in the Debate if it were not
officially laid upon the Table. The Treaty of
Luneville throws much light upon the general
queftion, by (hewing in what flare Europe was
placed by it. It alit brought to light the bad
faith of the Power with which we had recently
treated. The utility of having the Treaty of
Luneville was then evident ; the only queflion
that remained was, whether an authenticated or
an unauthenticated Copy of it was preferable ? It
was proper to have information—and it was ne-
cdfary to (hew for what reafon any particular in-
formation was called for ?

The CHANCELLOR nf the Exc If Myatt laid it was
for the Houfe to judge how far the hrz...tge of
Gentlemen who fupported this m0t..., was that of
perfons really feeking for information, or whether
they did not rather take a courfe to :nfluence the
opinion of the Houfe upon a fiibjeit not properly
under difcu(flon, and upon which the Houfe was
not now called upon to pronounce any judgment.
It was moft certain, that in the way of informa-
tion, the Treaty of Luneville could afford none, as
conneited with the proceedings at Lyons, to which
Gentlemen teemed to think i. applicable.
Mr. WINDHAM explained, that it was not Dir.
canon, but Information, that was at prefent re-
quired.
Sir W. Yovuc raid, that it was only from the
Treaty of Luneville we could learn if the connec-
tion between France and Anftria was fuch, that
the latter would be a proper guarantee for Malta.
Mr. Jowls laid it was not his intention to trouble
the Houle with a long fpeech on this fubjed, nor
indeed did he think it would be fair, after the very
extended, and, no doubt, extempore oration they
had heard from the noble mover of this propofi-
tion—an oration made up of a bit from Locke, a
bit from Lord Somers, and bits from other men of
not quite fo much fame (a /ate). He could not
help remarking, that though that Noble Lord dif-
claimed afkins the judgment of the Houfe, he took
the utmoft pains to Wads that judgment. It feldom
happened that he (Mr. Jones) and the late Chan.
cellor of the Exchequer agreed in opinion (a loud
laugh)—yet fuch was the fait, that the obfervations
of that Right Honourable Gentleman in the courfe
of this evening were exaaly the fame as thole
which he delivered yefterday. He hoped, there-
fore, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would for-
give him for concurring with his opinion on this
occafion. He condemned the perfevering efforts
of the Gentlemen who fupported this motion to
prepoffefs the minds of the Houfe, notwithaand-
ing the repeated exhortations they had received,
the obvious impropriety, and the known unpopu-
larity of fuch conduit. He would not fay that
fuch behaviour was d Ia Yam/in—for that was a
phrafe out of ufe—but it undoubtedly was a little
i la Porcupine; for curtly the way to promote or
hunt, down any meafure, was to bring it forward
every day_

. .
Gunn cam lapidem non vi.
Peace had brought comfort to the minds of the
country, and it was in vain to declaim againa it in
that Houfe. It teemed the purpofe of the Mini-
Rers and of the French Government to preferve
peace; and it was wrong in Gentlemen thus to en-
deavour to excite groundlefljealoufy—to continue
the teazers of the public mind.
Mr. ALZIANDIR deprecated the prefent mode
of difcuffion, as it tended to prevent all Parlia-
mentary bufinefs, and to prejudice the public mind
before the qutaion was fully and Fairly difculfed.
Dr. Lawasocz contended, that it was perfaily
proper on moving for papers, to go into the dif.
cullion of thole points to which the papers related;
added to this, it was impoffible to difcufs a fubjea
of inch magnitude as the Definitive Treaty, VJ here
fo many points were to be con fidered in one de-
bate, nor- could they go with propriety into that
difeuffion without the means of previoufly inquir-
ing into the details which related to the fubjeft—
The Treaty now alked for was one of tv o docu-

ments, the other being the Treaty of Baddi-T,
which related to Malta, and he thought it ongia
as well as the latter to be laid before the Houk.
The Motion was negatived.
On I.ord TED' PL E's la ft Motion. being pnt, (.01'3
Copy Copy of the Laws and Conflituon of the Order
of Malta, referred to in the loth and t ith SeEtions
of the toth Article of the Definitive Treaty',
Lord HAWK ESBV:tY denied that he laid any
filch thing as that Miniflers were ignorant of the
M.dtzfeConftitution, hut that they had no official
document on the fubjeft. There were fome changes
to be made in that Connitntion, which would be
;he 1ab1.:61 of future dilcufflon.
After a few 'ay Mr. WzNaH•m,Dr.LAW.
RENL F., and Mr. VANSITTART, the Motion was
negatived.—Adjourned.

LONDON.