Star.
London, England, 1823-04-16 00:00:00

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Crown Office, who had before that time enjoyed I asked of the Sheriff? he replied—ft What, do you
that power co-exterisieely with the Attorney-General. 1 think 171 have such a man as that upon • the Ju
There was no hint nei one.' of the law-books which who. has been known to declare publicly that tit
makes any distinction between the proceeding by in- stand by the King's Letter?"—(Lord Laughter).. .1.-.1
formation and by indictment. The principle of law Another fact was, that all the Grand Jurors answered;
was, that no subject could be tried, either by indict- in regular order until the whole were
made uV,.with-1
rnent or information, after having been once acquitted out one person failing to answer to his name. A man, .
of the charge by a Petit Jury. The finding of the named Troy, went before the Grand Jury, who ad-1
Petit Jury was a bar to all future trial ; but that was mitted that lie did not know Forbes's name at the
not so with respect to the finding of the Grand Jury, time of the riot, but he now knew it. One of the I
as he had already shewn. He quoted some cases to Jury said, "Itis no matter what you know now,
shew, that in the Court of King's Bench informations confine yourself to what you knew then ;•` and they
had been tried after the Grand Jury had found the rejected his evidence. 1-le then went into a detail of
bills ignoramus. Indeed, that was held, in the case of the proceedings before this Grand J •thought
Ur). lie
the King v. Pope, in the reign of George H. to be a he had succeeded in shewiag the legality a the pro-
very strong reason, where party heats prevailed, for ceedings. If be had acted legally, but had not used
granting the information. This was not the opinion of his discretion rightly, then let'
that be proved. His
Empson, Dudley, Jefferies, or any other violator of the discretion `was not to be censured, unless Oppression
Constitution, but of the great and constitutional Lord on his part could be shewn. The question was, had
Hardwick. He quoted also an information for a mis- he acted honestly? He had spent a long life connected
demeanor, granted by Lord Mansfield, because the with politics, and every man who knew him wars aware
Grand Jury had ignored the Bill through partiality. that he was never actuated by the feelings and senti-
In that case, some of the Grand Jury had declared meats of party. He had ever disdained to give his
that they would throw out the Bill. The third case attention to the little motives of the exasperated par-
was, an information against the Inhabitants of the ties and hostile sects, who, unless in attackinghim, were
County of Berks, for not repairing a bridge ; this was never known to agree in one common object (Cheers).
in the third of his present Majesty; and an informs- He disdained the winding ways and crooked paths of
tion was granted after several Grand Juries had their base and narrow policy—(Hear, hear). He
ignored the Bill. He hoped that he had shewn that thought this a question of far more than personal in-
he had not brought this contagion into England. So terest. It was a question whether eqtral law was or
much for this country; now, for Ireland. The re- was Lot to be administered in Ireland ; whether the
cords of the Court of King's Bench had been searched advice of the King, in recommending a cessation of
since 1795, and no less than 13 similar cases found, party hostilities, and a new era of 'a Government by
of informations being granted after the Grand Juries law and Constitution, was to be complied with ; Cr
had thrown out the bills. The first case was one for whether a party was to set at defiance the commands
perjury ;—and here he thanked the Hon. Mover for of the Sovereign and the laws of the land, and to
the warmth with which he had spoken in favour of proscribe all those who had the virtue and courage
extending British law and British justice to Ire- in Ireland to stand up to the Constitution ? (Cheers).
land ;—but if be (Mr. Plunkett) was to receive the He had now placed the case before' the House; he
censure of that House, it would not be for having had accurately stated the facts, and frankly avowed
been wanting in endeavouring to extend the blessing the principles on which he acted. It was a question
to Ireland. The Right Hon. Gentleman then went of great and important public concern; but as a mat-
through several other cases, all similar, and men- ter in which he was also personally interested, he felt
tioned one in which affidavits bad been made that the it a necessary consequence of the delicate situation in
very Grand Jury who ignored the bills against the which he was placed, to leave the House to the free
rioters at the Dublin Theatre, had, through miscon- and unconstrained exercise of its judgment, and he
duct, ignored a bill for a fraud, in which one person would therefore withdraw.—(The Right lion. Gen-
gave money to another in order to enable him. to tleman heee left the House, and was accompanied in
swear that he had received an order to prove a his departure by universal and continued acclamation
false debt against'a third person. It would seem from one of the most crowded Houses ever witnessed.)
that this Grand Jury had had so Much- labour in Mr. W. COURTENAY supported the arguments
ignoring the bills against the rioters, that, like Ju- of the Right Honourable Gentleman. Ile declared.
piter, after begetting Hercules, they had not power to that he proved the legal and constitutional character
find another true bill during the Sessions—(A laugh). of the power which he, exercised beyond the possibi-
The Right Honourable Gentleman then adverted to lity of doubt. He contended that the filing of an ex
the cases cited by the Honourable Mover, and con- ecio information in the particular instance, was ne-
tended that they were totally irrelevant to the present cessary for the safety of the country, and the genuine
question. After the censure he had incurred he patriotism of the Attorney-General for Ireland had
should not be very anxious to no before a Grand been evinced by the course of proceeding which he
Jury, by way of indictment, if he could proceed by adopted. But he was of opinion that the House of
information in the first place. No one would say Commons ought not to come to such a decision as
that the attack on the Lord Lieutenant was not a fit would allow either party to assume an air of triumph
evhiect for an information, had he not gone first to a on this occasion, as thereby the party feeling and ir-
Grand Jury. This, then, was all the offence for which ritation of Ireland might be increased, instead of
thelightnings of the Honourable Gentleman's elo- being diminished. He would therefore propose a
quence had been thundered forth against his devoted middle course, and one which he thought calculated
head. Had he done so, all the anger of the Grand to allay political animosity and irritation ; and he
Jury of Armagh, and all the pathos of the Honour- would therefore propose that the House should pro-
able Gentleman, would have evaporated. .Mr.Jus- need to the other Orders of the Day. •
tice Bayley had regretted that informations were not Mr. DENNIS BROWNE was in favour of the
more frequently resorted to, because they often saved amendment. •
parties much expense. But to return to the late riot— Colonel BARRY said many of the Right Hon.
it was proved that the parties had printed placards Gentleman's statements rested on anonymous infoto
previous to going to the Theatre; that Forbes purr oration. It had been stated that Sheriff Thorpe had
chased the tickets ; that he was hissing; and in corn- said, that the traversers need have no fears of the re-
munication with the other rioters; and that at
.the suit, as he had an Orange Jury in his pocket. That
Tavern he hoped they would be more successful conversation was stated to have taken place in the
another time. He then contended that the crime presence of eight persons, all of whom were ready to
of riot was distinctly proved against all the prisoners. make affidavit that no such conversation had taken
Yet with such evidence the Grand Jury ignored the place.—That circumstance ought to make the House
Bill (Hear, hear.) lie (Mr. Plunkett) would candidly distrustful of some of the statements they had heard,
pet the House in possession of what he felt to be the The only man who could speak to the throwing of
impression under which that Jury acted. It was his the bottle before the Grand Jury had never been
conviction—a conviction which he felt with all the examined before the Petty Jury; and of the twenty-
force of a Moral certainty—that they, the Grand Jury, seven witnesses examined before the Grand Jury,
conceived the plan of these rioters to be a very right twelve only had been examined before the Petty Jury.
and proper plan. It was extremely proper and law.- Had not the Attorney-General omitted the phrase,
ful that a certain class of persons, whom " for some- " with many others," in the indictment, there could
thing or for nothing," he (Mr. Plunkett) had desig- be no doubt that the Grand Jury, who had found
nated as a gang (Hear, hear, hear,) should have seized the bill against two, would have found it also against
on the first opportunity that presented itself for mark- the others.
ing their powerful disapprobation of such an.acqui- Lord MILTON had derived much pleasure from
cscence in the expressed commands of his Majesty the speech of the Hon. Mover, Who had shewn such a
(Ciaers.) To that extent they felt it highly loyal the glowing love for liberty ; though he was at a loss to
opposition should proceed, though they were not pre- reconcile that love of freedom with his having, in
pared to go the length of thinking that it was right 1819, hurried from Ireland to suspend the privileges
to fling bottles and rattles at his representative. That, of the English people. (Hear!) If the Sheriffs of Ire-
in his conscience, be believed to be the decided con- land acted in the manner that had been stated, it was
viction of the Grand Jury—a conviction, he also be- high time that the British Parliament should teach
lieied, which the greater proportion of the Dublin them their duty. He could not approve of the way
Corporation did not consider erroneous (Cheers.)— in which an lion. and Learned Gentleman would get
Tire Right Hon. Gentleman then read the direction rid of the question. At the same time, he did not
given by the Judge to the Jury upon the trial, as to think that his Hon. and Learned Friend had exercised
the right of an audience to express disapprobation in a sound discretion. The Irish Government appeared
a theatre. It denied the right of attacking public or to be divided against itself. It was, in fact, a mis-
political characters, in the case of actors and per. government, capable of mischief, but incapable of
formances—they were not protected if they broke the good. Why were the heads and patrons of Orange
peace. The Right Hon. Gentleman next adverted Lodges invested with some of the highest offices of
to the Orange Association. After declaring his opi. the Government ? Under such a Government, 2111
nion of the dangers and the illegality of Orange So- that had taken place was to be expected. He could
cieties,' but disclaiming the idea of descending from neither assent to the motion nor the amendment.
that character, which he would venture to say he had Mr.GOULBURN expressed his entire concurrence
maintained through life, to attack any party with the in all that had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend ; and
feelings of faction, the Right Hon. Gentleman pro- in the whole of his conduct he (Mr. Goulburn) had
ceeded to state, that an Orange Association had pre- taken a responsible part. The doctrine of the Noble
viously come to the determination of seizing the first Lord (Milton) was, that the Irish Government should
opportunity to drive the Lord Lieutenant out of the exclude from office all who, upon a particular ques-
theatre, and then out of the country, in order to tion, differed from themselves. If Lord Wellesley
induce the Government to change its measures.— did wrong in retaining him (Mr.Goulbutn) for his
The Association to which he had alluded, sent to a Secretary, how could a Protestant Lord Lieutenant
Lodge to raise a subscription, with which they purr be justified in appointing a Catholic Secretary; which
,chased tickets, and stationed 150 of the lowest yet, upon the opinions of the Noble Lord, he ought
Otangemen in the gallery, who were afterwards di- to have the power to do ? He felt with the Mile Lord,
rected by Forbes during the whole of tke riot. There that the Amendment of his Learned Friend was liable
were other facts which lie found himself called upon to objection; and if he did not press the House to a
to state to the House. The Sheriff was closely re- direct opinion, it was for the sake of that conciliation
hued to one of the traversers, and when some one re- which it was so much the wish of the Irish Coveen-
marked that they were in an awkward situation, he meat to effect. The defence of his Right lion. Friend
observed that they need not fear a trial, as he had a bad been left undiminished by any of the remarks
Jury of Orangemen in his pocket • for them—(Hear). that had been made upon it. The extraordinary cir-
Upon another occasion he made' a remark not less cumstances of the case justified the extraordinary
.ex. ercise of power on the part of the Attorney-General.
strange. An Orangeman, for some reason or other,
I he further agitation. of One question could only tend
bad expressed a wish to serve upon the Grand Jury,
and he had been promised a place on the pannel.— to keep alive animosities, and he and his Right Hon.
When the time came, however, his mime was (band Fricrals were content with the qualified measure of
not to have been put down ; upon the ream*, being his llon. Friend, Mr. Coartesq.