Star.
London, England, 1822-03-01 00:00:00

%Ow,-
Thomas ..isey

swim hlll----VtatrOidp Iliad 10104 lOW or ..--
armed with swords, and some persons outside
alias and atoms. He -told the soldiers that
were not to ttetainthere, es they only tempted
people to a breach of the peace. He then went
Aid being informed that the. crowds were again
!ambling about the barracks, be returned, and--
forty or fifty of the soldiers near the gates,
were thrown open, and the soldiers coming oat.
Right Hon. Secretary was-furnished with a -
,the evidence, and might find all those facts
`in it. He would net tie the Home by goins through
all the evidence; he would only state-a few of the
.principal facts. Mr. Sheriff Waithman found a warm
contention between the soldiers and the people.He
then rode up on the foot pavement, when a soldier
came up and seised his horse by the bridle, and with
great violence pushed himself and his hone off the
pavement. The soldier afterwards presented,his car-
'Line..-cot perhaps at Mr. Weidman, but certainly in
the direction in which he then was. The &Wenn,
as far as it went, clearly proved that during all this
time Mr. Sheriff Weidman conducted himself inthe
coolest manner possible. The whole of the evidence
taken in soother place went to substantiate the facts
which he had stated, with the eEception of some
variation in the evidence of one Gentleman con-
nected
with the Press: ke meant the evidenceof the,
Gentleman connected with the Morning Port. But
there was the evidenie of Mr. Mortimer, a Gentle-
man who filled an official situation, and who was
known, he believed, to the Honourable and Learned
Attensey-General. That Gentleman attended the,
Sheriff all the day and saw erierything that occurred.
Everything that was stated in the Petition presented
to the House was on p out by the evidence of that
Gentleman. All the S 'Ofileers who Were eis.
mined confirmed those fCctst They.were nig to be
supposed under anT improper influence in giving '
their evidence, particularly at a tinte.when the She-
riff was out of office. Besides all that, they had the
evidence of the Gentlemen connected with the Press
who had been on duty that day, and who were ob-
Carvers of all that occurrid. They were above any
kind of bias or indoence whatever. He thought the
evidence taken before the Corporation of London
was strong. enongh to induce the House to establish
an inquiry into the whole of the day's proceedings.
But perhaps it would be answered, that Mr. Sheriffl
Waithman had no business there—{Hear, Ace? ! and
a langh).—Perhaps his Hon. Colleague, in seconding
his motion, would observe that Mr. Waithman had
no business to attend at the procession; but it was
the duty of the Sheriff to attend where he appre-
hended there would be a breach of the -peace, and
to prevent it. The. Sheriff was in attendance from
seven o'clock in the morning until eleven o'clock at
night. It could not be said that the Sheriff had no,
business to attend at thefuneral. But if anything
happened, he being absent. what would be said.?—
Before any step was taken by the Sheriff in conse-
quence of the assault on him, he wrote to Lord
Bathurst, calling for an inquiry; but the answer he
received was a direct insult to him. The Corpora-
tion of London have called on that House to insti-
tute an inquiry into the circumstances of the assault
on their Sheriff, and he hoped they would not call in
vain. If the Sheriff was to be assaulted with impu-
nity while in the esecution of his duties, who would
be found to act in a similar case? This inquiry
would also spew whether the military in this country
were without controul, or whether they acted under
command. He called for an inquiry
.into the man-
ner in which the Sheriff was assaulted in theese-
cution of his duty, and the unarmed populace cur
down by the soldiers. If such things were tolerated,
there was an end to all civil government, and the
country was subject to military rule. It was quite'
time, therefore, to examine into those facts, and he

then called for a Committee to inquire into the
charges against the military or against the Govern-
meat; for they were to blame in not sending a note
to the Sheriff, as they had sent to the Lord Mayor.
The worthy Alderman then concluded by moving for
the appointment of a Special Committee, to inquire
into the facts of the Petition of the Corporation of
London, presented to the House on the Bth of Fit-
bruary, complaining of an assault committed on their
Sheriff by the soldiery at Knightsbridge barracks, on
Sunday, the 26th of August la t.
Sir WILLIAM CURTIS rose to second the mo-

tion, but on a principle very different from that of
Ms Honourable Colleague. He contended that the
- Sheriff had no right to attend at the funeral. Then
were two Sheri s, and one of them had no authority
or power to act without the ether. Mr. Waith-
man well knew that he had no authority to attend.—
But he would second the motion fora Committee of
Inquiry, in order that the world might understand
the character of the Common Council of Londop—
(Hear hear).—That Learned Bedr,-(Lanettes)—
meddled with those affairs with winch they had no
right to meddle, and pretended to be what they were
uut,--(lfear, hear! aid stuck laughistg).-4i the in-
vestigation which that Body held, persons were caned
on to be examined, and such answers were drawn
from them as were suitable to the views of the Com-
mon Council—(Hear, hear! and ntneh laughing),
Ple would vote for the inquiry, because it would then
bow much the Common Council had overrated their
parts. He would not take up the time of the House,
bat be would beg to be permitted to give-one sped-
-men of the evidence which was taken before the
Common Council—(!Wear, hear).—He would give
them a specimen of the witnesses examined, and of
the evidence adduced before the learned Committee
of the Common Council—(Mach laughing).—He
would read the evidence of Mr. Thomas Oliff: it was
to be found in page SS :
Where do you ilve3—At Na 50, Anre-etreet.
What are you 7-4 superintend the business for. Mr. limith, a
com-chandivr•
'roll were at Knightsbridge at the time the affray happened
with the soldiers and the populace?—No; I was not &bezel—
kier
C
).
That do you know about itT—l get a note to attend
Mrs.(ifeer, bror).—AU that 1 know Is, that I was in eons.
pm with a !Bead of mine on the blander or Tuesday evening,
aid be said that be had been into the shop of a person of the
nesse of Cribb—(4l )—and heard a inea of the name et
Pre
periohn—(Onsimme )—or his man—Werz=
tell Mr. (rabb that he beard a *prai of the Life
sty—(lnernased laublier)—s IN—e Alderman Welshman twe
prepared for him, and have get a ban ready fur Wear...
Orted langhisr).
Do yea Wow the met Where doss Properjelm
alga laitgiSer.)—At Knightibridge; be is a bitdise.•<Chnli.
grit( knobier).
read dila eatract as a epedmaa of the eeidee

• Zan,
dim &OS tbefifspst

fel, and be belisiblisconect, and•these "Waited to
the pneighbeuthood dialed that thertaw. *Milling of
thaate% thinwo. diatiejt Mat any
ceentimj= heti Mr.' aithalen. -He was
etthe • all that day, and sever left it from
rbp to theffth. He saw groups of people about
thieleatia, which bad been shut it tied. Thee was
a limy through the_Barracks from the toad into the
Palk *here the people were in the habit of passing.
declared upon his honour that the gates were
opeseed for the accommodation of the people. There
was no disturbance until after ten o'clock. After that
he thought the soldiers, eofarfrossbeing the aggres-
s**, shewed the greatest forbearance. These were
not less than 282 windows. broken in the• Barracks,
although it was stated that constables were stationed
in front with orders to apprehend any who
were found committing a breach of treln es
ace.—
Soon after six o'clock be beard cries of." Murder r
and on goingoux he found the trumpeter knocked
down—( Hai", heer)—by the people, who were as-
:milting the soldiers: The conduct of thesoldiers was
most forbearing. At his orders they returtted within
their barrack, which was a proof of their fbrbearance
—(Neer, !Four)—and good order—(Flear, Iseer).-e-He
shortly after sent for a Magistrate (Mr. Conant),
who read the *lot Act, and dispersed the populace.
He wished as much as any one for an inquiry; be-
cause then it would appear that the soldiers eon-
ducted themselves is the most forbearing and orderly
manner:-(Hear, hear).
Mr. HOOHOUSE replied to-the observations of
the two last speakers. He did Got mean to deny any
thing which was said by the Hon. Colonel ; he was
ready to admit that some windows were broken in
the Barracks; but this only went to prove that win-
dows were broken on both sides. lie trusted that in
a question like this, in which the liberty of the sub:
ject was concerned, inquiry would not be denied. It
was the duty of the House to inquire into this circum-
stance. He defended the mode of examination by
the Committee of the Common Council, as being the
fairest that could be followed up ; for they did not
stop short, but •eaamined both sides of the question.
They had a right to expect mcge discipline from the
soldiers than the people. If they we* called Picca-
dilly' butchers, and stoneswere thrown at them, thrf
ought pot:to have: fired at the people. He contended,
that the Sheriff, during his office, was the first man in
the county, and superior to any Nobleman in it. So
said Blackstone, and therefore Mr. Sheriff Waithman
had a right to be there, to have followed the soldiers
into the Barracks, and to have taken in the people as
the posse amitosis, to have apprehended every sol-
dier whom he believed to be breaking the peace ; for
•I he Sheriff was the only judge of what was a breach
of the peace on that occasion. The worthy Alder-
man ought not to have cast a slur on the Common
Council ; for it was formerly a very important body,
and sixty or seventy of them sat in the Convention
Parliament, when the Crown was transferred from
King James to a worthier successor. It had often
been said, and laughed at, that Ministers wished to
make this a Military Government ; but he was quite
satisfied that the intention, was so. He thought the
Common Council and the country ought to know
whether they were keeping Barracks for soldiers to
cut the people's throats. Mind, he did no: say that
was the fact • but it was proper that it should be
known whether that was the fact or not. Lord
Bathurst seemed to think that the Sheriff was nobody,
aid to forget that Blackstone was a greater man than
himself, for he had given him an answer, amounting,
to telling him that he had not spoken truth. AU he
wished was an investigation.
Mr. PEEL declared that he had no wish to cri-
minate Mr. Sheriff Waithman; nor could- he grant
an inquiry, though the Honourable Officer (Coael
Lygon) was anxious to clear the gallant amps
which he commanded. Inquiry was made by Lord
Bathurst, and depositions received on oath ; but those
he would not touch on. The evidence on the other
side was enough to satisfy him that no such outrages,
AS had been alleged had taken place. One evidence
had sworn before the Court of Common Council,
that he was in the shop of a Mr. Properjohn
in Knightsbridge, and there beard Mr. Properjohn:
or Mr. Properjohn's man, say, that they beard a
Corporal of the Life Guards d—n Alderman Width-
man—(4 lase hi.—Such was the evidence that had
been sent forth into the world. He regretted that
atmmeranith bad been the place selected for the bu-
' rial of these men ; and, above all, that the road past
the barracks should have been selected. Sheriff
Waithman said, he understood that the people were
exasperated by a girl being wounded by a brickbat
being thrown from the barrack. This was not borne'
out by the evidence, and before Mr. Sheriff Waith-
man had ventured to give this story to the world he
ought to have inquired into the truth of it. It was
true that a woman was 'truck by a brickbat, but
though she was so wounded, she was an elderly wi-
dow, and this happened on her return from the
fu-
neral. Sheriff Waithman had. said a man had pre-
saged a carbine at him; but, as he was told, it was
knocked out of his hands. Had this been so, the
breach of discipline, on the part of the soldiers, would
have been most reprehensible; but he could find no
such thing in the evidence. The very man who
knocked the carbine out of the soldier's hand would
not swear that the carbine was presented at him. It
had been said, that Mr. Sheriff Waithman received
an answer from an Officer, " That the Sheriff might
be d---d ; he should net withdraw his men into the
barracks." This was not borne out in evidence. The'
soldiers were charged with rushing out of the bar-1
;inks armed with swords, carbines, and sticks; and{
Snicking the people without distinction of age or
SOX. If that had been so, how was it possible but
that au indiscriminate massacre would have been the
consequence? whereas there was bat one casualty is
the Middlesat Hospital arising eat of that day.
win ft hay tkotors the day in 4111461i011 sot a siagie

. ;714#6* i, •1.
lil,l
--
°PS t.,t10, . ,blit he. was .aapa the t,.,
wit 0011 -) .MT inn jelanal• . •BA
•) • I N • -.the Ileskt .
,11... .. inn eShis maw,
istegn.eset fions.dinie of the. Hon. ditiderman and:
madam, him.
tile controverted the .Hon. *rimer
amticqi.of.thaiegal,sluties of a SheriB4 *hi es
be present in4taatiiabipanes.beinig • Mk*
that his colseeweve at livighteo or at a
feast, or, pLivantiore, on a party of pleasure.
.complained of the evidence of the Comillas
being treated with the severity of technical lei&
itmoy—whereas, it was only taken hi a manner which
laiteatto show that there was no disposition to. pervert.
4t /1111• any particular purpose, while it plainly ems
41111b$ daa *air*, of inquiry. With regard •te
SherlfWAklbentlitiving attended akele Pironer's
.1141111 st• lit Penman) could pot conceive what
that had to do with the outrages at Knightsbridge;
for it did not appear that any provocation which
-might have existed was in any way connected with
bite; it was not until the owing: came from the
Mier in the barracks that any appearance of hosti-
.lity Altai directed against him, even from the sol-
dicey, end the whole of the evidence went to spew,
that he *is hailed by the people as a friend, and that
his inioence operated most powerfully In restraining
them Xiom outrami and violence. Mr. Sheriff Waith-
man, whose exertions on that occasion, it was ad-
mitted, had the effect of conciliating and checking
the progrem of violence and bloodshed ; his gallant
Friend (Sir Robert Wilson), who was now sitting near
him, /oho also, by his exertions on a farmer day had
put a stop to the effusion of blood ; Sir Robert Baker,
who, with a feeling the most proper and becoming in
him as a Magistrate, bad also interfered in the pre-
vention of riot and slaughter, by changing the route
of the Queen's funeral procession : these formed the
list of the proscribed, for their interference between
the people and an enraged and furious soldiery.—
Look, on the other band, at the case of the outrage
at Manchester ; not a single person concerned in the
barbarous illegalities ofthat transaction had yet been
brought to account ; no inquiry had been made into
the circumstances ; thanks were given, without a mo-
ment of hesitation or reflection, to the military, as if
they bad achieved a triumph over a foreign enemy,
instead of imbruing their hands in the blood of their
countrymen; and the Magistrates who caused that
unhappy slaughter were made the objects of favour
and rewatd—(Cheers).
.Mr. PEEL wished to correct a mistake of the
Learned Gentleman, as to an observation of his. He
had admitted that the evidence which he quoted was
strong in favour of the motives of Mr. Sheriff Waith-
man, and proved that his conduct on that occasion
was conciliatory.
' Mr. DENMAN said, he had understood the Right
Hon. Gentleman to have founded on the evidence,
which he admitted to have the effect he had now
stated, his opinion that the presence of the Sheriff
was improper.
Mr. PEEL said, he had founded on part of that
evidence his arguments, but not his opinion—(Hear,
Isear,frome the Ministerial beaches).
Mr. BANKES, jun. could.not but think that the
conduct of Mr. Sheriff Waithman was highly im-
proper in appearing at Knightsbridge, who had ap-
peared for six days as prosecutor of the Life Guards,
in the Court of his own deputy, the Coroner. Sheriff
Waithman himself admitted that be appeared at the
Inquest as a public prosecutor. The Sheriff had no
business at Knightsbridge, since, eleven days before,
be was present at the Queen's uneral, but took no
steps to keep the peace,. or to remove the obstacles
which were thrown in the way of the course pointed
out for it. He hoped that, in all such Coroner's In-
quests in future, no proceedings should be published
until the verdict should be returned. He should
oppose the motion.
Mr. H. G. BENNETT contended that Mr. Sheriff
Waithman did no more than his duty in attending
at the funeral of Honey and Francis, for the ?reser-
. ration of the public peace. Let the act be judged
by its consequences. Did he not preserve the peace?
—lle would appeal in support of the affirmative of
that proposition to all the evidence that had yet been
heard on the subject, as well that which had been
given before the Committee of the Common Council,
as that which was in the hands of the Home Office.
The irritated state of the minds of the People, and
the temper of the soldiery at that time., rendered it
certain that if any collision took place between them,
great mischief would ensue. Under such circum-
stances it was the duty of Government, since it could
not prevent the funeral procession from passing near
the barracks, at least to have controuled the conduct
of the- troops, and to have prevented them from being
present alit; or, if no other means could effect that
purpose, to have marched them out of town—(Heer,
hear, /iota the Treasury beaches, and cheering fives tis;•
Opposition).—He was quite sure that in other and
better times that would have been done; but, in these'
days, Government appeared either to know nothing
of public opinion, or when they found it opposed to'
their own views, to aim at nothing bet defying 'it,
and carrying every point in opposition toit by force
—(Near, hear).—Looking through the whole of
Mr. Sheriff Waithman's letter, he contended that it
was clearly borne out in every tittle by the evidence.
That of a Gentleman who attended on the occasion
as a Reporter for one of the News distinctly
proved the fact ofasoldier having y loaded'
•si carbine and levelled it in the direction of the She-
riff; and the same added, as his • • , that if the
man could have fired at Mr. Bheriaithman with-
, out hitting some of his comrades he would have dons
so. lie begged to remindtheHouse that dap eTWelkce
of a.Reporter, as transactions of which be was an
eye-witness in the diieharge of his duty, was most
important ; because be attended for the special par-
pose .of observation on what was passing, to make
such olmervatioa was the business of Me Callin&Lit.
wait he might say, 'his Mock is trade; end, at his

OD AA

A AA Oication. 'hewed hinweltto he pox.
remarkable dhinness and presence of mind.
this evidence was sot given on oath ; Inn
band, wither was that House now sit.
iisey-wilvtibeee-ent, 4tissuldui
inquiry, and *wont& on which t 147
mod Lama evidente, as, if given in
Justice in support of a capital charge, it
. brimmed .sismemft dilly& hOtikt rid of..
aillidkoireiserffeese to remember that it had 4scar
ts.lear,thitliewl filey,or, Mdern:en, and Common
yet of, the 'city of :London, petitioning for in-
r t.. kiwi the la* of ibilgi•rif complaining ti
ncio?soott woe upon.die Itgal anthkititics of test
vselieta ,in his penOn ; It had the evtdriti
Ai before a Committee of persons propet
~...,‘ to investigate the fact, of a violation Hof
...ir civic rights, and the of that Committee
den :it was necessary to !Tr Pon the House for a
qprqush inquiry into the whole of the transactionao
IOW& it referred; and peter had a gate been sent by
&Grand Jury ton Petty Jury for decision, on evi-
dence more strong and clear, on a prism .feeie view,
than that whielfformed the ground of the present
call for inquiry. No man could go farther than he
would in the credit which he .would cheerfully give
to the soldiers for the good temper and forbear-
ance which they in general displayed,and which had
for so many years maintained the best terms between
them and the People. But when he "saw attempts sys-
tematically made to set the military power above the
authorities recognised by the Constitution, his utmcst
exertions should ever be applied to the counter,ctica
of such efforts ; and on the present occasion he would
accordingly do all that be could do towards their de.
feat, by supportins the minion for an inquiry.
Mr. LAMB said, he was aware that any Gentle.
Man who ventured to affirm in his place in • tha
House that there were persons in the country who
were desirous of promoting disturbances, and inciting
the people to break the peace, exposed himself to re.
hake as a libeller of the people of England. W:.:
what possible motive, he would ask, could have led
to the determination of conveying the bodies of these
two unfortunate persons, with the pomp and tumult
of a public procession, to Hammersmith for inter-
ment ? By "'shoal was the expense of such a pi oceedi-
ing defrayed; fur without expense it could not have
been conducted ? And what could have been the in-
ducement to embark in such a project, unless it was
to invite an attack-from the soldiery, who were sup.
posed; in the temper of the time, to be too ready to
engage in such an affair, or to risk the chance of a 1
movement ote the part of the irritated populace
against the military, in order that persons of such 4
description as
~he had alluded to might take ad.
vantage of the disorder consequent upon such ea
occurrence to promote those ends which the) ima.
gined likely to be best advanced by anarchy and con-
tusion ?—(fiear, heir). Notwithstanding the riser.
'ration of the Hon. ember for Westminster, he 1
would affirm that the persons engaged in the riotous
proceedings at Knightsbridge, were not ,hose who
could, in the correct acceptation of the term, be pro. 1
perly called the people of England-4 Hear, hear).
He happened to see the vast concourse of persons
who attended that funeral; and he was sure, front
his ownobservations, that the great body of the pelple
assembled on that occasion mere most quietly and
. peaceably disposed, and, in their respective situa-
tions
in life, highly respectable in character: but be i
saw that they were also attended in their progress by 11
a great mob of persons of that description, who, from 11
warmth of temper, or other worse motives, were al- 1
ways ready to take advantage of every pretext that
offered for creating riot and disturbance, and by no
inconsiderable number of those who are found to seek
an advantage in the confusion that ensues from every
violent movement of a mob in this metropolis---tilear,
hear).--And he must say, that unless breaches of the I'
peace in the metropolis, occasioned for the most part
by the conduct of such miscreants, were firmly re-
sisted out of doors, and scouted in that House—(Hear, I
hear)—if they were to be called acts of the people,
and protected by that feeling of constitutional respect
which he trusted would ever be entertained in that
House towards the people of England, properly so .
called, it would be Impossible to prevent outrage, ,
riot, and bloodshed, either from the violence of the
people, or the resistance of the military—(Cheers).
-Mr. HOBHOUSE explained, that he had not, as '
the Hon. Member supposed, applied the term of 4, the
people of England" to those who committed any of
the acts of violence at Knightsbridge; but he hal
said, that the people of England were insulted iu the
person of the Sheriff—(Hear, liar).
Mr. BUTTERWORTH thought that it was no:
until they were obliged to protect their own lives,
that the soldiers on this occasion interfered ; and that
Mr. Sheriff Waithman, as Sheriff of the county, had
acted in a manner highly criminal in not interposing
his authority at Cumberland-gate on, the day of the
Queen's funeral. He did not, however. think it ne-
cessary to be there, though be had judged it proper
to go with the other funeral procession to Hammer.
smith. On the occasion of the Queen's funeral,. Mr. f
Waithman's brother Sheriff wrote to him, to ask him
whether it was his intention to attend on the day ap-
pointed ? Mr. Waithman returned no definitive an-
. swer to Mr. Sheriff Williams, until a period so imme-
diately preceding the funeral, that he knew his letter
. could not reach the Sheriff in time. It was to thiii ef-
fect :--44 Although I shall nut have the means of at.
tending her Majesty's funeral in my corporate cape:
city, I mean to attend as Sheriff of the county, and to ,
be at Hyde Park-corner at half-past seven o'clock in
, 'the morning." As Mr. Waithman must have known
and anticipated, this letter reached Mr. Williams too
late. and he did not go. The Hon. Gentleman con-
cluded by a solemn appeal to the House to reject the
proposition submitted to it.
Mr. HUME had a very few word* to say, and
those he 'Would hot have offered but on account of
the most extraordinary statement which bad been
made by.thialon.Member. for Dover (Mr. Butter-
Worth). - The Hon. Gentleman protested against the
inquiry, and yet commenced his speech by a
in general
attack upoq almost everybody concerned . in this
transaction, the spirit (perhaps the House would
be told) of Christian charity—(lifeer, hear}.—But his
appealing is the solemn manner that be had just
dim, was an insult to religion.(f/ter, hear, fres
Me Ornsilion).-.-The sacred cloak of Religivis was

4

de diaMstlie Memo_
_, prosiat:,.. 4.,_), •,.._....„.." • t .74t.4:: sot a. 41. ~.ro f .kt ea dkik ,
mit they dame got aogostAlstetterrio: • 't• ft /4r' tam 1"... fre'4oll .... Zr - ~ :, /Us •. • ' . ''' of rignitrial
ted ahe about *thiamine* I-( 46 , • • virr. "-fc7r the '. ' - - . Pb.‘
trent ye, Colonel -LYGON Polio inn, Mt et
!dadfound
all:kanome.befowredthem,batmtiaybetcruppoinsa:Mve....l=l,l iOnditsr• eth6-:;thetbe
$0,714°‘ :, --1'
.''ioilivell4'.'
,'.lll:l:oLiitibeisci.4o
lastllis daygliak
was- it 7.wi‘wisikwaaderisaisaga ..
that: a
madastbulebsoirtactilichaadigni
1/2
which
lirstl.part d . "
theZic'n whktitaarded tbe'Cclaullasdinig °facer' =Air' " maid found
sokft
oecto.p.Thy
oef . Icie would man Motif Niihau put of• ther finhell.d." out
astwidtarnegetbeknot
deala7rerihseesr kirk sent*
a ridits t 4. a Coimbra Jostle
detailed 1.1. , _l_ba,t_a_bri_____/- -k bad
-ti 1mmtn0rt.....6"..2411.•......11Y the.A.ll4. act
oils to . tbs.' sammadi them. The
wasllta.She*H 411138"1"h"

profaned b)
.-mouths, bid

He (Mi. Hu
such copdeet
•ideals in the

tad just adopted.
panegyrics v
on the sotdiers,
witnessed the

place at Knit
-anything that
time would •

those who witnessed

jute must be
most unfair

the Honoural

bad nothing
'fionourable
. throat, dirt

As to the _
-bad read, whether
this he (Mr. Hume) could assure the House, that the
worthy Alderman (Waitbman) did, in fact, attend
the Queen's funeral, but only as a private man. He
did not attend in his corporate capacity--Eflere Mr.
iitrraaseoaTu pointed to a letter which he held in
his hand ; but the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) coa-
tinued3—sa I don't care for paper; I state only facts"
—(A laud).—He did not care for paper when he
could have the evidence of his own senses. He ap-
pealed to the House, whether, ilabreath of the law.
had taken place, and a great Corporation like the
City of London came forward to lay their complaints
up'n account of it before Parliament, it was not just
and expedient th3t inquiry should take place? He 1
could not imagine that his Majesty's Ministers had
-really instituted any inquiry. An Hon. Secretary
talked about one; but why had he neglected to state
to the Douse what was the nature, what was the re-
sult of it? The House would not consult the great
constitutional principle upon which justice was said
to be administered to the People—namely, to do jus-
tice equally to all—if they did not listen to the peti-
tioners. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to
,hew that the evidence tended directly to confirm the,
original statement of Mr. Waitliman. The appeal
which had been made by the Hon. Member for Do.
vertu-sensed anything but justice in its principle. It
had oo other motive—(Cries of Order, order)—it had
no other motive but—

Tne SPE.IK i:lt WAS under the necessity of calling
the llonnurable Gentleman to order. -He was evi-
dently about to attribute improper motives to another
Hon. Member.

Mr. HUME said, then he would chise the sentence
without supplying the words he meant to hare
added--(Order, order).
The SPEAKER again called to order. The Hon.
Gentle an must see that his own detlaration of
closing the sentence without supplyiag the words
was a renewal of that very disorder which he (Mr.
Speaker) had been before obliged to notice; more
especially, as the House was now left to infer that
the Hon. Gentleman had intended to impute impro-
per Motives to the Hon. Member for Dover.
Mr. HUME was sorry that he had spoken out of
order. He meant only to say, that it did not appear
to him, in the common way of judgiag of men's
words by their actions, and of their actions by their
words, that the Hon. Gentleman had shewn himself
a friend to justice—(Near, hear)—or to the institu-
tions of the country—(Near, dear)—hy the language
which he had used in respect to the Petition which
bad been presented from the City of London. H.
I • should extremely regret that the House should refs.*
the proposition of his Uon. Friend—( ear).
Mr. Alderman WOOD in reply, expressed his as.
tonishment that the Hon. Baronet (Sir W. Curds)
should have spoken so lightly of evidence of which
be bad only looked at one part. The Hon. Baronet
should hardly have expressed himself so severely with
regard to a Corporation from which he had for go
many years derived a part of his support. He Was
' astonished, too, that his Majesty's Ministers *Mai
indulge in the same tone with regard to the Corpora-
tion. Had they not dined with them lately? •
they not attend at ens Corporation dinner given so
forei n Monarchs, at the expense of 1:25,000.; and at
another given in honour of a noble and gallant Gen*•
ral, their friend ?_(Hear, hear, and laughter). He
complained that the letter read by the Hon. Member
for Dover (Mr. Butterworth) had unfairly introduced
into the pre ent debate a confidential and private
communi:ation, and contended that Mr. Sheriff
Waithman had attended the funeral of the Queen as
a private individual, and without his chain of office.
The gallery was then cleared for a division. The
numbers were the following--
For the modes - -
Against k
Majority
SALT TAX.

- 56
- 1.4
. m... 405

Mr. CALCR AFT said, that after the discussion
which bad so long occupied the House, and excited
their feelings so strongly, it was his duty, to bring
before the Heine a question of dull detail, but of
great importance—the Repeal of the Duties on Salt.
—He had long considered the question, and had it
much at heart ; and, if it took the turn which be
hoped, it would be most beneficial to a very large
class of the community—(Hour}--h might be in the
recollection of the House, that, in 1817, whet he had
moved the question for the first time, be went sb far
as to press on the consideration of the House, the
propriety of appointing a Committee to consider the
effect of the Salt Tax. That motion he bad lost by
a small majority ; themajority was, in fact, onlyee
"—a rare circumstance as to any motion coming frond
the place where he stood--(Has}—ln the year 1818
he renewed his motion, and a Committee was granted
without coming to a queition at all, and that Com-
inittte (not selected by him, but fairly chosen with a
najtnity, as usual, in favour of Ministers, by whom
the appointment was made) came to Resolutions,
one of which. with the permission of the House, he
would now read—
.' Resolved—That it is the opinion of this Cresomittee, that
the repeal of the Salt Duties would be ',Wattles of the great.
est and most important advantages to an *scripting* of persons
is this Klugdona ; and that the preasststMe Of the omen and
expenditure of the United /Kingdom oleos prevents yea Com-
mute *tom instracting their Chairman to move for leave to
bring is a 801 l fur such a total rep,s,l"—(llear).
—Un the Ist oi June. lelB, this and other new•
lotions were iepurted to the House. It became
hint now to account for the course he had thought
advisable to intuit to abstaining from 1818 to 1820

wish4-411eur,
. .
and Of drill's*. It ..
imposed initereignPor;T;iglsliam aid Mary, and was
then only three-halfpence per.gallon, and was, ark
dse cases of most taxes, temporary. It was after-
wards doubled, and in the reign of George IL it was
made perpetual, and increased to.Bd. per gallon, or
se. per bushel. In the 28tb of the last King the duty
was increased to IN. per bushel, and in the 46th of
the late King it was increased to its present amount.
This was a tat on a raw material, the produce of our
own country, which was mixed up with all the neees-
series of life, and which weighed on the poor in that
oppressive way that it was a poll-tax operating in
the most burdensome and unjust manner—(Hear).--
Any one who knew the habits of the labourer, mutt I
know that a day-labourer consumed as much of die
raw material as he (Mr. Calcraft), or a man Of ten
times his means—(Hear, hear).—How could this tax
on a raw material be defended, when a mechanic, I
labourer,
labourer, or artisan, was taxed in this unjust xi'
arbitrary manner ?—(Rear, hear)—Of the butdeni
which it entailed on the labourers there were various
opinions; but no one could say that a labourer paid
by it less than from twenty to twenty-five shillings a
year. When they looked to the state of the agncul-
tural labourer, what an enormous proportion of his
income was thus drawn out of his pocket !-(Heats).
This raw material, useful as it was in itself, was, by
the means of the tax, rather a curse.than a benefit to
the country, when it was produced in the greatest
plenty. That, in the neighbourhood where the raw
material was produced, the tax was the fertile cause
of breaches of the law, was proved by the evidende
taken before the Committee. The evidence of Mr.
Justice Burton, who was twenty-eight years Justice
of Chester, and Sir J. Stanley, the Chairman of the
Quarter Sessions, stated, that in Cheshire the Salt Tax
was one of the great sources of crime and immorality. [
—(Hear, hear).—When it was considered that, for
1001, worth of the raw material the dealer had to ad-
vance 30001• of tax, thirty times the original cost—
(Hear, hear)—when they added to that the accumu-
lated profit of each person through whose hands it
passed, it was not too much to say, that when it
reached the consumer it was with thirty-six or thirty-
seven times the cost of the raw material—(Hear).—
But, it would be laid this burden would, fall, not
upon the labourer, but upon the employer, it would
go to increase the wages of labour. True, it did so;
but, in a country like this, was there anything more
desirable than to keep down the wages of labour ?
(Hear, hear.)—What would be the situation of die
manufacturers, if wages were not now ke2t dowi?
But they were now unfortunately kept down at the
expense of the farmer. For this was the situation of
the farmer, that, by the great competition with him,
he was unable to throw the cost of production on the
consumer. The manufacturer was therefore now
flourishing by eating the substance of the farmer.—
This was the cause of the distress of agriculture, and
the flourishing state of manufactures—(Hear, hear).
This tax affected, however, not only the poor man,
but all the branches of industry. It affected the
fisheries ; it affected apiculture also, to a consider-
able extent • and though as much allowance had been
made to these branches as, under the system of taia-
tion, was practicable, yet so long as the article re-
mained under the Excise, no branch of industry could
be entirely relieved from the inconvenience and
pressure of the tax. It was the nature of to heavy a
tax to convert the trade in the article into a mono-
poly. He knew houses that advanced from 100,0041.,
to 200,0001. duty in a year. He did not chose, there-
fore, to move the simple repeal, as he would not thus
violently interfere wish any interests. When he had
:hewn that this tax, on an article so necessary, was,
35 or 36 times the original price, he should say his
case was made out. Certainly, in the first instance,.
it would cause a reduction of 500,0001. in the Re-
venue. But they had now an estimated surplus of
5,200,0001. Certain as he was of the possibility of
further reduction of expenditure. and sanguine as to
the increase of Revenue, he should have no hesitation,
in proposing the reluCtion of this tax. •But takimit;
to be at the worst, what was their situation?
would have reduced the Sinking Fund, which they'
had voted to be five millions, to 4,700,0001. with the
pledge that all increase of the Revenue, should *
applied to make up this very trifling deficiency.-+-:•i
Now would any financier say that this would ma*
any difference in publit credit ? He had brought for,'
' ward the goestion after a short notice, because he'
knew that, while a motion of this kind was in agita-
uoo, the less to individuals, and the defalcation in the
Revenue would be considerable—Weer, /rem Ali
Otamellor Pile Sachereer). He had no doubt, how-
ever, that if he had chosen to delay it. hundreds of
Petitions against this oppressive tax would pour in.
He had received a letter from the Drysalters of Bir-
mingham on the subject, and it wai worthy of remark,
, that we were by the tax deprived of a most beneficial
branch of trade—the salting of provisions, which water
, transferred to countries where eithet the duties on sale
were low, or where smuggled salt could be used—
(Hear, ear, hoar). The Chancellor of the Excite-
quer had formerly stated that the advantages of a
repeal had been over-rated, as the tax had been abo
lished in 1/20, and imposed again in 1782. But it
appeared from MeMoirs of Sir Robert Walpole, that
the cause of the re-enaction was, that Sir It. Walpole
thought the Excise could be more easily endured on
' an old than on a new article of taxation. H. revel-
' lected that in a pamphlet of Mr. Burke's, that cilia
nent writer bad particularly dwelt upon the differepsal
. hams* Ertiosid sad Prim* with rogue so the &It

drought
ebiigedtowithstand, for tit e,reeent iirlenst, any fat.
ea attempt at the reduction sties. The Sinking
Paid was *waft to ansefunt to-eve Minton,. The
tax on Malt, propound to.be repeated, *mild exceekr
£1,200,000, for Ermined, and about £200,000 fdig
Ireland—total, £1,400,000. for a year's produce of
the Malt Tax; he spoke in Visaed numbers—(Heary
—To meet this repeal, it axis intended to eppV
1,100,0001. from the reductioOof the 6 per C.ents. in'
tni,cland, with about 90,0001. &sin :the same Wile-.
tion in Ireland,. nd about 250A001. from the surplus
of the Sinking Fund above five millions. Now, with
such-an arrangement, he wild appeal to .thelloti.
Mover, whether, if the peace of the' flak Tax, to
which hii motion referred, eboild at once be reduced,'
it would be possible to maiatain the proposed Sink-
ing Fund ; or whether, after the recorded Resolution
or the House, in which the Hon. Mover himself con.
curred, it would not be advisable to postpone the
consideration of the reduction,, of the tax alluded io,
to tome future opportunity ? (Hear, hear, pa the Mi-
nisterial Beichei). the.repeal of that tax were to
be,preferred, he had no hesitation in saying, that its
repeal should take place at once, rather ilan in the
gradual manner recommended by the Hcin. Mover.
An Honourable Member had calculated that the tax
under discussion operated as a poll-tax upon every
individual in the country of about twenty shillings
a-head, assuming that this tax affected the poor as
Much as the rich. Now admitting that such was the
'feet, and that the tax alluded to operated upon the
poor as much as upon the rich, which he most
tinctly denied, still be would object to the Honour-
able.Mover's opinion; for if that opinion were cor-
rect, this tax, instead of producing only 1,500,0001.
as it was estimated, should actually amount to four-
rthen or fifteen millions, according to the last census
taken of the population of Great Britain--(Hear).—
The Right Bon. Gentleman, after recapitulating his
several objections to the motion, and pressing the
propriety of postponing the present motion until a
future opportunity, especially from a regard to the
'establishment of the Sinking Fund, which the House
bad already' oted, concluded with moving the pre-
vious question.
Lord NORMANBt stated, that Sir R. Walpole
had proposed the renewal of the tax as a relief to the
'landed interests. On that occasion' in a House of
more than 400 Members, the Bill had been carried
by a majority of SO only. • •
Mr. LEYCESTER spoke in favour of the motion.
Sir I. COFFIN stated that the poor man in Hamp-
shire and Cheshire who, forty yeary ago, salted two.
lugs, could not now-afford to salt one.
Dr. PHILLISIORt said that the tax pressed heavily
on many articles of trade; but, as he had sortie nights
back voted for a Sinking Fund of five millions, he
could not now concur in a vote that took away ode
quarter of that sum. But the abolition of the 5 per
Cents. would next year leave a disposable revenue
that might most properly be applied to the immediate
and not the gradual abolition of the tax.
Mr. CURWEN said, this tax formed a tax of one
twenty-fourth of the labourer's wages, and only one-
10,000th of an income of 10001. a year. He asked
whether it was not in the power of Ministers to re-
peal this tar, without breaking in upon the surplus of
See millions ? Was it not in their power by 'retrench-
ment ? If Country Gentlemen would do justice to.
the country and to themselves, and support his Hon.
Friend, they would find that Ministers' would not'
break in upon the Sinking Fund, but would be com-
pelled to retrench. Could any man doubt that there
was yet sufficient room for retrench:neat ? As tOthe
idea Of ekeessite produce in agriculture, and the pro-
posal of throwing land out of cultivation, he was quite
astonished at such novelties. In 1814, the 'views en-
tertained on this subject had been very different.--r
For 25 years previously, the produce of this country,
had been sufficient for the consumption of only two
years, and fifty; Millions had been paid for corn frOns
foreign countries. It had been then argued that this
country, which could not be conquered by thi
of an enemy, • might be vanquished by famine.—
Had it, then, been anticipated that the manufacturer
ihould come to have only eight. shillings a-week in-
layed of thitty-five? ? Hadin-
layed, tt, then, been expected
that the consumption must fall in proportion to the
fall of wages? He would boldly ask now whether
the country could, go oo so? As to high prices, he
thought they would be the ruin of agriculture; for
foreign grain would then be imported, and the agri-
-eakurists would become worse. . There was only one
eemedy, and that was a reduction of taxation. The'
reduction on malt was not a drop in the ocean. Would
it amount to one farthing on the pot? There would
be no greater consumption in consequence of it. Last
raj, blinisters hid said they would not hold their
,plates if the Horse Tax were reduced. It would,
'OM'. be no vatißatlon in them to reduce This tax—
Awkr).—lt was a tax that pressed with peculiar,
yiyarity ore agriculture. He differed from his lion.
Friend, the Moyer, in one point : he did not feel for
the montipolisti, who could now afford to lose some,
'of their enormous gains. The repeal of this tax would'
`double the consumption, and cause double the quan-
tity to be worked from the mines. The fisheries, too,'
would be improved to an enormous extent. HoUand
had made 1%000,0001. by her fisheries,
out advantages, had never made 1,0000001.
Mr. J. SMITH concurred in the opinion that it.
*Aid be better to replace the ditty on Malt, and
4 that on Salt. He, however, doubted whether'ilih7tenetion of, kers to a great *Mount was the hest
Any violation of faith with the pub-,

uP Uzi
Malt
She
~e
had net yet been brought in; and there was still time
Sufficient to make any alteration the might
think fit Vs tisake.. lie denied ilitit the lepeal of thi
Malt TeX woultefiroduce any good affect, whilst, the
repeal •Of the Salt Tait would be felt if a relief by
everybedividual in the ccitintry:
7 Sir P. OMMANEY objected to the motion which
Would hate no effect, be contended, in relieving the
'People. 'Re thiseght it was probable some reirench;.
isseist"'Snight be 'inside triniorrcier, when they came
into a Cenimittee 'of Supply. If they eciuld only
knock Of a single Lord of the Admiralty, it Would
be 0000 a year saved to the People.
Sir. J. SEBRIGHT supported the motioff. He was '
convinced, unless tome effectual relief was given to
the ariculterist, the land could not only not pay the
rent imposed on it, but it could not even be kept in
cultivation ; and unless the Country Gentlemen wished
to see the land of their ancestors pass from their hand 4
he called on them now to come forward, end force Mif
nisters to repeal this tax, and afterwardtiamsider hove •
they could, by retrenchment, make up the deficiency.
Mr. LITTLETON was fully aware of the relief
which the Sepal of ibis tax would afford to every in-
dividual in the country, still he could not agree to
the motion.
Mr. BRIGHT was as anxious as any one could be
to keep up the public credit of the country; but he
thought it might be done with a Sinking Fund of
less than five millions. The sum wanted on his
Friend's plan for the repeal of this tax was only
900,0001.; and this sum, he contended, might be
saved out of the enormous Estimates now before the
House; either in salaries for useless places, or out of
sinecures at home or abroad.
Mr. Alderman •HEYGATE opposed the motion.
He did not believe a reduction of taxation would re-
lieve
,the distress of the farmer, whose wants were
occasioned by excessive production. He •contended
that reduction of taxation had been carried as far as
it could be carried with prudence at present ; but he
only opposed reduction now, that he might support
it with more effect hereafter.
Mr. GIPPS said he was not now actuated by any.
desire of popularity, but he conceived that the tax
ought to be repealed, and that the deficiency might
be easily supplied by reductions in the expenditure.
BURRELL had intended to take the oppor-
tunity of delivering his sentiments.fully on the pie.
sent motion, but had been diverted'by the course pur-
sues&by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He should
support the motion, as he.was convinced that salt
tiughtbe beneficially used in tillage, and that a fur-
ther reduction might be made in the Malt Duty.
Mr. BENETT (of Wiltshire) remarked, that they
were all agreed as to the oppressive and ruinous na-
ture of the tee in question, and it was surely obvious
•that a sum of 4.:250,000 might be saved out of our
immenseexpenditure An Hon. Alderman (Heygate)
recommended ; but delay had been already
acted on of late years, until agriculture was in a state
of hopelessness and ruin. He would beg to remind
them of the homely proverb, that 4, whilst the grass
grows, the steed starves." He trusted that she Coun.
try Gentlemen, who had been so feelingly exhorted
to arouse themselves on this occasion, ould not fail
to satisfy the expectations of their constituents (Hear).
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY would be most
happy if the time was arrived at which it was poisi-
bleto repeal this tax; but the case was not so. The
Member for Nottingham (Mr.J.smith) had adverted
to the popularity which Ministers would gain by the
repeal of this tax. He was as much alive as any man
could be to, popularity, and its charms and comforts;
but he trusted he should never purchase such plea-
sure and comfort by a departltre horn what he con-
eidered die more important duty of protecting die
ptiblianterests. On a former night the House had
ngreed to the proposition for making the Sinking
Fend f. 5,000,000;. but now came Gentlemen in :ac-
cession; otter clainsing a repeal of the Malt Tax, ano-
ther etnie and claimed the .Salt Tax, another the
Leather Tar, ancinaother the tax on Candles and
Soap. If titx after tax was thus to be takea away,
there would be no barrier against other reductions.
There was a powerful party in the House, whose
avowed object was to destroy the Sinking Fund ;
though, by that means, the credit of the country
would be laid 'prostrate—(4l laugh). Let not Hon.
Gentlemen' suffer themselves to tie entangled, or bv.
come in succession allies of the common enemy. If
Hon. Members were not on their guard, the enemy
would obtain a triumph, even whilst the House was
decidedly against thew--(Hear, hear, and laughter).
The repealers of one night would boast that their
scheme was drawn up with a view to the conservation
of the Sinking Fund, and afterwards would come the
Hon. Member for Nottingham, and press fur the re-
peal of the Leather Tax, and for another slice, no
less indeed than 600,000i:from the Sinking Fund.—
Now, from the state of the money market, the saving
'effected by the reduction in the Five per cents. would
not exceed 1,200,0001. and the whole of this, together
;iiiith the extra 1180,0001. the Sinking Fun.l, wntild
Ale counterbalanced by the diminution of the Malt
Duty. He hoped the House would beware, then, of
the trap which was here set for it; he hoped it would
be seen that Gentlemen opposite had no Fund in their
view—that indeed they talked of no Fund, but tl e•
inexhaustible one of retrenchment—(Hear, deer).—
Was the Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Sebi ight) ia'bls place
when his hiAjelty's Ministers bad opened their-nlaus
retteochosent-e.plans which had, be wouitishilifir
Is say, surpassed the expectations of the Howie?. .h.
(A laugh).-.' hey had indisputably gone !mood ."

r..

yes

•
' • • . .:.' * ' • '••••• ,I°,- . '
1.4e4;,,';:l '4, .• . .; . , • • ' • • • • ••,- ' • : -,4':• .r• rt. ...- m... :., ' ~.....T.i.e.,0.A- -.t ••. . •
. .
• ' . • .-, • ~ -c- .4, _44 e :t.1.,P.. •.- ..- i. " .--
,
. • • • - • ' - • . .
, . • ' - , . . • ,
...- • . . .
.1 1.-kiti 44,, . ,!, r , .
~.., .., . .
...... . ..,,~,
~f, i! 1. :' ,?. ',:!...::,,:i.A.701 .4;::,t•-• •.... 7:--,.., :.:-71% .:, 4j . , . i C
• ..' ',l
sy tali, " titre with that word is thahr tot move ' _ Atlyintial or.thise , -.IN& - ~'4 % • -
led simrthingtet religion let their heafts...i... that atta40111101410; eapPlesed *atom: lade ' -- et . : -'. .1, • .;1 -.4 ._ . . 0,.:-...11 ...-. .411. .. 47 •.', • - i ...
....
riffle) rose toetpress his abboriense of *hod hitolt pill*l . opho.iiiititieto do fol• •Pbeettbl. •• of lloal . ilsOl•tis . . oldie i*i.
....' .416( ei ' 1
.4 'A i • ••
es. ja.,4o7,o44llivisauu as attacking Judi- in 1019, by 'his': thuds whir cm the dotal Ise •• . . xn.eau tin . ' :hedisaii '. '. ' asileidesoq So .- . *) • ~..i* • 7:7 ''- ' . - r ,t 4
er...!
.., in
,p ci
....''
the *Manner arisich the Hefts Otlideiffati:C.fnnlittato end tiOltie Stockinet'. Vffiblid ittpluft El -. itsild -' ' lw,v • .L.,,, 44 coplar7 .wi.th %itch W.O •&beetle iltii ~ 'Or
opted.4mattrileer)._withlessuid.to the l helm* toluti, *eight, bat' he Icattsitilm sZithat2 so ..•..4' - • • It .' '. " Tho . Prill ..... .. .••f. .. . /
..• 90etnillt ll*, n 1ic,5,01 in; diet •
whiih the 'lton..Gentleman had !welshed' dike ahrdueease loul mipospdsedse of eh, men
... 1i5,i,,k.... . moviairtor, liiiiiiit yii
IttlAti. tiWtfali railOibi' ta, sun tb'een: •
ler% it was the opinion of those Who had. could- talltragt. Ma. 4 inoliw,fe,O ihr. opal of Aho 'a la lived oreaellaitsjet • .41tithatatfota,.pr this eountrre Zeit' to
he tranuctitaus of the day, that what took duties. nal same Fuson bad imulw, .. .hiny la No mr„,DA socatta .44 , . . dill sip
::
.., .
7.srinic, .
ices
of
givi
lad
ibis
iightsbridge was not to he connected with and 1821, lied it *as not 'an the pitiselit. year that lie tax hid blithitifediKettby mitt ctoir4isinded stater ittr . . • then •eirehris of pwliar stpi...
'Thee had thooghtit'adiblitite scrota told** titirlditta, that man, nitlfhttSt dot tb. ha tblkruted In a commere ' niiiiti.,OthOrwise,lie would tell.theio to middle* tame
tat bed occurred at Hammersmith.
very shordreome, when the _opinions of' be mad- elimesat row et the:llomi the teduction cooloat; :Troia 'a_ long residence in the amity . there bin n 0 11000n.thiy .Cofikl luntosir ess the ... •
%Amused the occurrences at Cumberland-J Of ibis impeet. me thew vottelede with a lumina Chester, -he.-wita *talk diNts ipernielous effects bit which WOW& he. received with nicht:4lyd Mastic:
be niadve-mattei of discussion. But it was 'for tims graduartedactios• of she Outlives Salt ;he public morals--( • teroz), s• : : treP• as Al' 401114 i i4z *said • ,
rto mil up two transactions in the way beggled the House to remark--the gradual redueciOn The CEIANC . Air the EXOII4EQUER si , .Mr. WAN VET "tipphied 'the itiociOti: .
end of them —(inn, hear).—The day-wet •• Ids., per hostel,' and sere!? approyad• -' 'hietteee by 4,1,1 a, she me, .. Genetgt; StOlGlilit urged.the repaid of ihe till. rabic Gentleman had done ;
after what the He had Ward no arglioteut monist this itteakire en 3. gto (1.) with the other,' and it WAS, bathe .he Oroposid.to take 0t..55. per bushel each vest till it and 'sittlititalay, yam Idettatted ;.•hek
le Gentleman's part, only an attempt to wit extinguished. He trat-ei that this peeiessel seas 'House bad 'heady dew awards 'tlas tederetinn of 'citptidnit the fletehue 'could not afroid tii give up tbsi ,
...
into the eyes of the 'Hoose—(firor hear). sit xn,d aygradual as anfinie, `:die totted with taitation.uilffeer;dartr, mu tat Itakitliwthetilipasitior 'Silt Tax and the Malt tax too. But had the Malt , .-1
letter which the Honourable Gentleman Man that the inaledthtetiosynt *east:fon waiitlesir Beach's)* wad 15 it 'bays"' di. Osteblidiment of a Tax been 'determined nnl—Certainly. not: Had due _
whether it was or was not a true letter, of able, could swish:a-Wean Asisri,tenr), iHn.should flow Oinking Food, he thou • the ilia* 'oust feel llill passed?—Certainly not; so far from it, the Bill y
~ 5x.....1 .....41A ...tn.. the House. that the state the firkin and prestress. of the Tea. It was Ent ohOrdtowithstand, for itt, Is :env fat.. hatfnet vet been bronolit in I and there tel. still Wnsi _i•

tam

I

f

V


suggestions of the Sweet Committee,
be supposed that they cloud the
tions. it must be remembered,
would he nothing short it
th-tt as 3r as reduCtion
less field for it remaini
them went to shake our
it went by a side wine'
they had already come.
Honourable Members •
met- vote, nor get rid by proceeding
so prejudicial to the character of Parliament.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE said, he had formerly voted'
that the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers, as related
to taxation, had not come up to the expectations of.
the House ; and on that opinion he should now vote.
He did not consider taxation as the primary cause of
evil; but still it was an aggravation of the distress,
and therefore it ought to be reduced as far as possi-
ble. He considered the landed interest in that House
as declining of late. Though represented by a most
respectable body of individuals, yet there was some
extraordinary influence in the House somewhere, which
bad induced these Gentlemen to turn their backs on
themselves-4 Hear, and a laugh).—He was happy to
acknowledge his opinion, that his Majesty's Ministers
were wen of highly-gifted talent; and that they bed
the confidante of the People of England; but on the
present subject he must differ from them, although
he was always ready to support their general policy.
Mr. J. MARTlN*supported the repeal.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL also supported the repeal.
Mr. T. WILSON opposed the repeal at present.
Mr. BROUGHAM could not help observing, that
if any man had heard all the speeches of the Members who bad
that night addressed the House, with the exception of the con.
cluding sentence of some of them, and the whole of the speech
of the Noble Marquis, that auditor must have concluded, that
there never was a more unanimous and harmonious assembly,
or one in which there was less likely to be a difference in the
decision—(Hear, hear). Indeed, not a word had fallen from
any Hon. Gentleman, in which the reprehension of the princi-
ple of that odious tax had only been exceeded by the abhorrence
which all pronounced at the machinery. All were unanimous
in this expression of those feelings—all declared that the tax
ought to be abolished—the only difference, a material one un-
happily, existitig between that side of the House and some of
those who sat opposite, that it was to be abolished, bat at a fu-
ture time. Those only were precluded from supporting the mo-
tion of his Hon. Friend, who had pledged themselves not to
support any proposition whatsoever of future retrenchment -
(licit). If it were possible to save, according to the motion of
his lion. Friend (Mr. Calcraft), 500,0001 or according to the
suggestion of the lion. Baronet (Lethbridge), the whole
amount of the duty, namely, one million and a half, to what-
ever view of the question the Members of that House gave their
sum art, they were enabled to give a perfectly consistent vote.
Before they proceeded to the division, he would implore lion.
Members to see the object of that pretext of inconsistency which
the Noble Marquis endeavoured to establish—to reflect on the
labyrinth into which he endeavoured to beguile them. If any
man bad, on the former discussions by which they were now
said to be pledged, addressed Honourable Members in this tone,
ic Beware of acceding to such a proposition; if you support or if
you oppose such a resolution, you pledge yourself irretrievalgli
against any future reduction or diminution of the public burdens.
If such language had been held, the Noble Marquis himself
would he foremo t in denying that any such interpretation could
be fixed to the decision of that House. But when the decision
was once made, the tone of the Noble Marquis was altered. All
prospective measures of retrenchment or of repeal of taxes were
forbidden. " Your vote is given," said the Noble Marquis ; I
4 you are pledged; I have you in possession; I have nailed you"
.—(Hear, bear. hear).—That pledge fixed to a new surplus of
the revenue, renders you incapable of supporting the repeal
of any tax, though you all, in common with the whole coun-
try, concur in reprobating its principle, and detecting its odi-
ous and impolitic presiure---(Hear, hear, hear !).---Such was
the fair inference to be drawn from the interpretation that
night given to an extorted pledge. The Noble Marquis has
told the House, that a majority of its Members had pledged
• theneelv es against any retrenchment during the • Session.—
He has said that he wanted not the support of any man, who did
not feel with him, that any future repeal of taxation was impos-
sible—(No, no! from the Treasury Benches, and dissent from
the Marquis of Londonderry). Did the Noble Lord not say,
that he did not contemplate any 'further repeal beyond the re-
duction of the Malt Duties ?—(No, from the Marquis of Lon-
donderry). Well, he (Mr. Brougham) was glad to find be did
contemplate a further repeal (Hear, hear); then let the Houle
do its duty, anticipate the Noble Marquis as the surest means to
ss-cure for the people his still contemplated reduction—(Hear).
The experience of every year sioce the peace must convince
them that unless the Houle forced the Noble Marquis, that
pledge would go unredeemed. If they boldly tell him that re-
trenchment must take place, retrenchment will take place; he
will do now as he did in 1816—he will retract all that he said in
the way of impediment to reduction ; and when he found the
House in earnest, be knew the policy too well of bending to its
determination—(Hear, hear). He (Mr. Brougham) begged to
remind them of the small majority—a majority only of 9, by
which the motion for the repeal of that tax was in a former flee•
sion negatived. What must be the opinion of the sound part of
the country, of all that were estimable amongst their fellow-
countrymen (and he never undervalued any great maw of our
population), if they saw that very measure which was then nearly
negatived, now carried by a great Ministerial majority, though
within that interval the sufferings and the distresses of the coun-
try had so considerably increased ?
Mr. PEEL would state two grounds which induced him to
cppuse the motion. The first was, that a gradual repeal of a
tax on an article of consumption must occasion great inconveni-
ence to persons standing in the relative situations of producer
consumer, and seller and buyer. The second was, that it
was impossible for the House consistently with the resolution to
which he had referred to vote for the repeal of the tax. The
question was, whether any reduction could be made in the esti-
mates so as to admit of the repeal of the tax ? He was convinced
Ira such reduction could be made. The whole revenue amounted
to 55,000,0001 all of which, except 17,000,0001., was devoted
to the Consolidated Fund. 'The remaining 17,000,0001 were ap-
plied to the support of the Navy, Army, Ordnance, and Miscel-
laneous Services. 'lt was impossible to mate•any reduction in
any of those services. The Hon. Member for Aberdeen hid,
indeed, proposed a reduction in one, but he bad, at the same
time, suggested a corresponding increase in another. (Mr. Hume
dissented.) He knew he must be very cautious in meddling
with any of the lion. Member's statements.—(Loud cheering
from the Ministerial, re-echoed from the Opposition benches.).--
Ile must repeat, that be bad understood the Hon. Member to
propose the augmentation of one service whilst he wished to re-
duce another. He fully concurred in all that had been said by
his Noble Friend, (the Marquis of Londonderry), and would
oppose the motion.
Mr. MABERLEY rose amid loud cries of " Question." His
object was, in few words, to correct a statement which had
fallen from the Right lion. Secretary. The Right Hot,. Secre-
tary said, that it was impossible to effect much retrenchment out
of a sum of 17,000,6001. The Hon. Secretary was wrong in
the amount he gave : the sum upon which reduction might
operate was 25.U00 0001. The House was asked—" Can you
reduce in the Army Estimates? or in the Navy?" No. But he
(Mr. Maberley) would tell them where they might reduce: they
might reduce the expense of collecting the revenue, which now
amounted to more than 4,000,0001; arid from that expense they
might deduct so much as would cover the repeal of the salt tax
altogether—( Hear, bear).
Mr. CA LC RA FT, in reply, said that, after the very liberal
construction his proposition bad met with, he should occupy for
a few moments only the time of the House. The observation
which he had intended to make as to the collection of the re.
venue bad already been made by i. r. Maberley, and in the view
of that gentleman he entirely concurred. Independent of that
however, the House would remember that the Noble
on the opposite bench, but a few nights since, had
,rhad
spro-
gaud a reduction of more than 1,000,0001. next
y

LON IiON.
. FRIDAY, MARCH,I, 1822.
STOCK EXCHANGE, ONE crcLocic.
There is a good deal of business, doing this Morning, but the
prices have • deelleed ht consequence of the great opacity of
money. No defaulter has been declared, end the making up of
Accounts still occupies the attention of Brokers.. The Navy 3
per Cents. are still depressed, front the very 'awry odes that are
made throughout the day. Camels opened at 781 for Money,
and 78} for Account—have been at 79i, end are now at 714;
per Ceets. have been steady, at 10811.
' CURRENT PRICER:
Bank Stock 260 249 249%
S per Cent. Reduced 79% shi 5/s Vs %
3 per Cent. Consols 79 785/s Vs
S% per Ct. 90% %—4 per Ct. 973/4 % W% %
5 per Cent. 1023/4 % vs • •
Bank Long Annuities 20% Vs %.
Imperial 3 per Cents. 78%
India Roads sss. 32t 40s.—Old Annuities 79%
Exchequer Bills of 1:1,000, Is. dis. Is. pre.
Ditto small par, 44. pre.
Consols for April 7954 Vs.
ROYAL EXCHANOR, ONE O'CLOCK.
There is not meth doing to-day to the Foreign Market. The
following are the prices I—French Five per Cents. 92; aPanteh
Old Bonds, 62 ; New Bonds, flei 4; Danish, SS; Neapolitan.
70; Prussian, 90 891 ; Cohunbian Bonds, 9114.

Ministers, who are so often defeated in the Clouse
of Commons in everything except as to oumbers, had
no cause for triumph last night even in this respect.
Mr. CALCRAFT moved for the gradual repeal of the
Tax upon Salt, a Tax which not only bears most op-
pressively on the poor man, but is even admitted to
be injurious to agriculture. The way in which the
question waS met was not a little curious : the tax
was not justified, nor its injurious and oppressive
tendency denied, but the House was told, that if they
voted a reduction of half a million on the tax on
Malt, it would endanger that Sinking Fund• of five
millions which they •had previously sanctioned A
defence of the Sinking Fund comes with a good grace
indeed from the men whose rapacious hands have so
often violated it, and reduced it to a mere nonentity.
When the question of repealing one-third only of the
tax upon Salt was put to the vote, Ministers had a
majority °f lour only, in a House consisting of above
Three Hundred Members; the numbers being—For
the Motion, 165—Against it, 169. If, after this, Mi-
nisters still retain the tax, it will prove to the Coun-
try (if proof were wasting) that they will do anything
rather than reduce the Public Expenditure.

This forenoon we received a Flanders Mail, bring-
ing Brussels Papers to the 26th inst. The following
are extracts:

TRIESTE, FEBRUARY s.

We have received commerciahletters front Alex-
andria, in Egypt, which come down to the middle
of January. They also bring us some political in-
telligence, from which it appears that hostilities had
for some time ceased between the Ottoman and Per-
sian troops; but the respective corps have, for the
present, maintained their positions, and it is not true
that the Persian army has made a precipitate retreat.
The negociations between the two Powers are carried
on at Teheran, whither the Porte has sent a Diplo.
matic Agent, with power to negotiate on the footing
of the status quo before tile commencement of hosti-
lities. This basis, it is said, is not acceded to by the
Schah of Persia, who wishes to take advantage of
the actual embarrassments of the Porte to recover
possession of the provinces which the Turks made
themselves masters of during the troubles in Persia.
According to accounts from Alexandria the Porte
was required to cede to Persia the whole province ofI
Curdistan, and several districts of Armenia. If the,
Schah of Persia persists in this demand, the negoci-
ations will doubtless be broken off, unless the Porte
should find it for its interest to protract them. Under il
these circumstances, the result of the negociations
will depend on the turn which the relations between
Russia and the Porte will take.

Official notices have been giien at Corfu of the
speedy arrival of an English corps, which is to bel
distributed among the lonian IslindL This corps
will come from the isle of Malta, where it will be
repLiced by a body of troops that will come directly
from England.

The French Papers of Tuesday contain a long
report of the proceedings in the Chamber of Peers,
the preceding day, on the law on the Press, to which,
in its form as passed by the Deputies, o vigorous
opposition was expected. The folk/ming are extracts
PETERSBURGH, JANUARY 20.
We are in momentary expectation of the official
Declaration of War. There seems no doubt that the
campaign will be opened in the spring. Madame de
Krudener, who is said to possess great influence over
the Emperor Alexander, is equally for war. It is
added, that the second army, commanded by Count
Wittgenstein, will commence hostilities. It will be
reinforced by the third corps of the first army, under
the orders of General Woronzoff, and the fourth corps
•

Tabosel44Mirtted to this dal twialro,,ito
aw—
plea ifold.l4Acitiviircer as PDadvieftrire, the Hibt,
attorney.: • ,
GENOA. vstatiAirres'"' .1"
11 We leatft that thf Court- MarthOl iitierma 0116-
.4.
noes with uppity the trial of thirty persons, mph-
cated in the tioubles that hate taken place is thasiity.,
Fourteen of are alreoA- I to &eft
...ri;

• . FRANKFORT, FEBRUARY !O.
The probability of peace being preserved between
Russia and Turkey, which was generally believed alt
Vienna, has suddenly • diminisfied; add especially
among the merchants and bankers of the Austrian
capital, who do business with the East, and are gene-
rally considered in very well informed.
nil
News fions Constantinople, of the 29d of January,
had been received at Odessa. There have been
fresh troubles in that capital, and a sort of trine:lda-
lity prevailed there. The Porte had, however, arrested
four of the new Greek Bishops, whom it had before
appointed, in the most arbitrary manner, and joined
each the Patriarch, as he is called, nominated by
the Divan.
French Funds, 5 per Cents. Feb. 25, 91 fr. 4,1 c.

The Madrid Papers to the 14th ult. have been
received. The following is the only extract worth
making :
" On the morning of the 2d, by order of the Go-
vernment, some regiments left this city, and others
came in their stead, and marched to the Square (If
the Constitution ; on which occasion the enemies of
our Constitutional System thought fit to utter cries of
Long live the Absolute king ! Death to the Consti-
tution r Immediately all the good Spaniards, mili•
tary, and volunteers, who were in the square, were in-
flamed with patriotic ardour, and mortally wounded
the detestable VINCENTIC Fuano, as a just reward
of his fanatical folly and clerical seduction,making pri-
soners 'of others who appeared at this moment• in dif-
ferent parts of the square, who all received blows and
stabs which they well deserved for their endeavouring
to throw the files of one of the regiments into disorder.
" In the afternoon? the Political Chief, Don Abister,
arrived with the Marquis of Campo Verde, and pro-
ceeded to the quarter where the national militia was
drawn up. They were attended by militia cavalry,
a number ex the King's- dragoons, many Generals,
OtEcers, dte. It seems all the Serviles in this city
were assembled, thinking their friends were entering ;
but as soon as they heard these Authorities call' Long
live the Constitution, Seville, &c: they were discou-
raged. In the evening some other enemies of the system
acted in a similar manner, but were received with
blows and stabs by the Patriots, and afterwards made
prisoners. Notwithstanding these events, public tran-
quillity has not been disturbed."

telleterlib arlt
:11211iis,--statir tgvrbir",e,(akitaw itett.s,... arm,' the
jot. its ht. IC terlogget
110irmiltete,!104thetia, Tifolititli; and an abs
*we ip 1111mbawaskeraro deice! as Awe Nor Was on T
12tbourervithuilkells"), 17.—Ined tf.--astied, the Dubpoem, with a Mall Lisboa ; 9et.eY, Rea
Madeira satGans& Prllaither, WIVES and Nur::
Ytilwastra,lbr $
t. e dot Itittalaties, 8;Axwe,,,,,, tor
yearfosedlowl. d•
Paratovam Fs& 27.—.W1t0d the Herald.
rTon*, for kern Leone. Pasted by, the transport No. 3t,
with troops, from Bermsda to Portsmouth.
Toner, Fn. 27.—Sailed the Pate rampart, for the Cape
of Good Hope.
POITSMOUTII, Fn. 28.—Wind E.S.F.—Arrived the Edward,
enamels, from London for Jamaica.—Passed by, the Dorothy
Foster, Mesm, for Jamaica; and Henry Wellesley, Laan, for
the South Seas. The whole of the outward-bound have uded,
except the Regent, WSLIIIINK, for BatOia ; sod Ellen, Name.
for Jamaica. The Hawk Revenue CUNT ran foul of a cqiiier
brig, in working out of the harbour, carried away her top-mast,
and bore up again.
DIM., Fes. S.R.—Came down from the River,
the Buckinghamshire, Amiss, aid Castle Hundey, DaossuiNn,
for India and China, and sidled, with the Martha, Kamen, fo.
Barbadoes. The Adrian, for Bengal, and Zodiac, for St. Ile.
leas, still remain. Arrived and sailed fur the River, the Vales.
eta, KIVIIIIAN, from Demerara.
WHITIMIVaN, Fes ie.—Arrived the sloop Isabella, GORDON.
from Glasgow to Lisbon, having cut from her anchors in 'We-
ary Bay on the 24th instant.
RAMIGAT; Fra.2a.—Arrived the Janet, Lawman, front
Malden, with loss of topmast.

--~

issirste
Yrimsrs

ILINA
THE COURT
Nveice, that th
ef the GOLD COI
towns of England g
Ms than THREE 1
b^ing made to the C
And the amount pre

ICH AMMO
fully acquaint
lug %AI be TIILJILS
the First drawn Priz

4 Prizes of
3 - - of - -
AND TED R 1

A 1.1.
'Tickets and Shai
LallA 1111160 N, 6041101.1
Ws. 104. flank Bulk
IT was LIAZA
on the 'Firm

4(;7

283

2,505 ..
:11IL
Is thu Second Ilty

TWEN'
The Wheel ii ;tr
ar.20•060 ; others of
to a Prise.
Tickets and Shar
Offices, Royal Ti.xcl
street, corner of Sv
principal t ountry

(AN Tees-DAY
NJ drawing, whe
. and was sold by

1 Sixteenth, Brit;
1 Sixteenth, Coll
I Sixteenth, F.dit
I Sixteenth, GM
I Six:mall, Lek.
I Sixteenth, Mon
The follnevinz Ca
saki by BISII:
1,953 -
2,058 -


• .- ''''7,--7.77----- -:•• ‘ •-..----
.
• - -- • '-' 7 - A"---,miTiigrr.------- -r...•
- •:.', . -- • . •-• : :U..: - . -
. .
••' , :
. • . : . .
. -
. , - , .• .
. .
, • ...
swami to dool3le the vilsoost watch his (Me. Werth's) teolkm 'of cavalrref reserve, ostler the ordeegif General TIM ARAM • , .; •
want to take off • ..._:_ . • . ;„, " soraighogo;j4, ..-.:44 .1 •. 41 •
.tir "Cl' ~• ..,. -
,-.i 1 ~,,-, .0, .‘; 1 ../.: rip- ,ti
r*., mi. 4. .I. ..- • . • .. ,
niece. Committee, nor was it to' Tigi.no,.. cam • woo lat. ••
Woo • • ~. , 4' "!•'','' * r ..• - . . •
:,4•11 ,'l•''a • ' ' • Al .•. • :•:- -,4 wk-ogkgitigwV/liiififeit'lll''' -'. '' '
closed the account of reduce thisielabsso
remembered, however, and it , For she models •' • .:. . . ~..,. '., !lisp . yeadhia ,tio 46 distisig dm
..
• atiainat it .. ki.aiste4 ,1.77,.54.4. h. .• • seine band,- 4.446llretailis, t. - *. ~• ~ ,ko . - sarsokkr. • tatterdir tc, 1
tort of gross ignorance to forgets . Majority ior . - - : . .
mi7to
on htd gone, there was pro tango sabeeNseat to the di . vela* AIM, leas almost the depeeig{:4 'gee _etiuieee oeide -iii
tiiiii,,4o " WlVllllhimilli "4-regWeit4 *,•' ?:41.67- • "It.- !.. '
al lio beeelftela aim* to „,. • . •
iiniqg. The proposition before' looptyr. liir.libavis Troy. The siliseissalraiipposa, .
.11011 AVA MU' illire the bask .of It LinewsPiaelliblie ~ .o.l4itatig/14144". .1„,.....11"1"
;bur financial system to its bases !irtCcan"O""l"). is ji f.. --..ri
bl ..
' .1.2.1..,,d''' . '
id to rescind the vote to which *Dv mttriThl.dme acaltamliadoword3 Ilea*: Tirol. liblifilig"*Cijet. 11.4"1":„ Mk
milui.htnitilliirliet 'it at"titlar)!„ - ' 6.'4 *;4l.' . 'r '-''" N j• ••*1 ' •
e. He trusted, therefore, that ------ • ••—,---= titor.ott, BiiiiirAirti,' gild *hat:if/di 'owl . '4'7 tiniVi A- MAYAL mizurtmh...... - Mer---m--".
•s vrould not trifle with* their for- 'nit' EVEN IN(4 STAK. cbambre of tbe
,teai,ii,er. 4.04; )41.'Diiittit414-. —fipt.."o4. ~.,"; b"'" ...•
-.." . '-"----. . . -. :- ,' -- Ntrmnr R t
lofit by a course of proceeding a„,_.- 4.• ------,----7----- legatee', and M. Paquin, far M. LA- i 1111111 he :, 411154 - 2.11.111._ Otililiabe Ilidliallaidiall.6.l Novwskw-www/kulik ailleilhil6am4.119.",11111111111‘, . . a........-----.
_ _ _ . . • .. . _ ._,_-......_ ma.sidia_ al IL /lies M.. ill Irma Moe io. :war. '_: - • D /IV/