Star.
London, England, 1824-02-04 00:00:00

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rose jtlNan , hatjaalettally Mirky Spahr the an-
swer to ra‘is en itawsy mollindaill,inad when ihe.re-
ply shall he.. be.. enesived Eton chow, tlw *leerninart will bk
able to sneak amen espllelifyo6 the assiteet. . nip topic, lie, is so
ouch the swat prenthailit hi the feelings and whites if the cotintty,
fiat I have not been 'able to avoid putting it forward in the little
I have bad to address to the House. At. to the general station
which this-country holds in Europe and in the world= I say
Europe and tike world, not now as empty surplusage-a-in Europe
and in -America-in the old world and in' the new if I can-
not with propriety join in the praises which the Honourable
.Seconder has, perhaps, lavished on the Government; I am, on the
:alai hind, justified in repelling the assertions of the 'Honourable
•Learned Gentleman, that England has fallen from her high
station, and has sunk to a second-rate Power. England, I again
assert, stands in a situation as able to defend her just rights, as
much respected for her power, as much courted, her good opinion
ai mach desired by other Powers, as ever. I agree, indeed, with
the Honourable and Learned Gentleman that she is not precisely
in the same relative situation as to the balance of power in Europe
as in the other times of history to which he has referred. But this
is because Europe is divided among preponderant powers of more
predominant authority than those which existed in former times,
and that having to deal with them we do not possess the same rela-
tive power which we once enjoyed. We are taunted with the in-
ternal abuses of the despotic States, as the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman calls them, as well as with not holding the balance of
power. I desire the lion. and Learned Gentleman to look back to
those periods when we did bold the balm& Of power—ahe reigns of
King William or Queen Anne, to which he referred; and to see whe-
ther at that time, when we made an alliance with an Emperor of Ger-
many, or whoever it might be, we then ever thought of inquiring
into the internal abuses of the States of our Ally? We are obliged to
live in the world as we find it, to deal with the elements that pre-
sent themselves. We cannot form another world, "of one entire
and perfect chrysolite." If we are to live in amity only with those
States which have free institutions, let us look around us, and we
shall find, that we must very much contract the numbers of our
Allies (Hear!). Let us look back ten years, and ask, how, without
the aid of despots, we should have been able to overthrow. that
colossus of despotism, before whom republics and despots were
alike proptrated, end at,whose overwhelming power, the blood of
the fated' of K gland curdled and ran cold—(llear, bear!) The
lion. and Learned Gentleman has given an account of some cri-
minal proceedings, which have taken place in Austrian haly.—
Though I am not aware of many of the facts Mentioned by the
lion. and Learned Gentleman, I know enough of the proceeding,
which have taken place in that country, to suppose hr alludes to the
trials which have been carried on et Milan. The accusations might
hive been false ; the conspiracy might have been feigned ; the judg-
ment Might have been corrupt; I know net whether some uf, the
circumstances might or might not have been are they were repre-
sented by the lion. and Learned .Gentkrnair! But,, supposing all
this to have been true, were we on that account to -break oi all
communication with the great Power of Austria. and amt against
her because Same of her citizens had been the victims of in-
justice? This is surely too absurd and extravagant s proposi-
tion. Let us rather maintain all our , external relations,- anti prey
serve our connection with the great Powers of Europe, with re-
ference to the corpus imperil, on broad and general principles of
state policy, without too minute an examination into abuses
which may exist in foreign Governments, or Into practices which
our better government and happier institutions -enable us to cri-
ticise with asperity, or denounce with abhorrence—(Hear, hear !)
-I believe, however, that the Honourable and Learned Geutlenian
has been greatly misinformed in some of the cirainistances to which
he has adverted. I perfectly well know, that about twenty of the
chief persons concerned in the conspiracy at Milan, on whose guilt
or innocence I do not pretend to offer any opinion, were convicted
and condemned to death upon their own confession; .and I know
also, that the Emperor of Austria extended.tO them his mercy, net
without a struggle against the opinions of some of his advisers,
who thought that the interests of his empire would be endangered
by that extension of mercy. As to the particular statement made
by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, with respect to the
relation of one of the culprits, I can say, with all sincerity, that I
am ignorant of the transaction to Which hi alludes; but ff he im-
putes to the Austrian Government any undue severity or harshness
in the administration of the law on that occasion, Ido conscientiously ,
believe that he is mistaken. The Fiumserable and Learned Gentle- ,
man proceeded to allude to other malpractices which existed in the
AuetrianGovemtnent, and to comment with much severity on the
cruelty of extorting confessions; but the Honourable and learned
Gentleman does not seem to be aware, that by the law in that eouns
try sentence cannot be executed un a criminal unless he confesses, ,
To us this may seem a very absurd law, as it is constantly the pracs
tice in this country to hang criminals who die protesting their inticsa
cence, and we do not think confession necessary ; yet on the flat
statement of the law, as it exists in Austria, it cannot be denied'
that it seems to be rather a humane provision than otherwise. I be-
lieve it to be an absurd provision, because the confession must either
be unfairly extorted, or if the proof is sufficient without such con-
fusion, it is unnecessary. I do not, however, think it was quite
fair dettate the fact that these persons were goaded on to confession,
without also stating the fact, that by the Austrian law sentence
cannot be executed on a criminal without such a confession. Ido
not wish. to be considered as advocating the expediency of such a
provision. I du not deem it a part of my duty to vindicate the laws
of a particular State, with which we are polititally connected. I do
not fed it to be my duty to make myself master of the details of a
particular trial which may have taken place in that ,State. But if
other nations were to judge of us'as the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman is now judging of the Emperor of Austria, with what
barbarity cud coarseness of feeling might they not charge us, when
they referred to what we have all witnessed lately with so much dis-
gust?-1 allude to the trial and execution at liertfurd. What
imputations might they not cast en the national character, if they
judged of us as &ideally as the lion, and Learned Gentleman is now
judging of the Emperor of Austria, when they read the eulogium
which had been published in this country on. a hardened, uncon-
(ruing, convicted murdei et ?—( Hear, hear.)—Would it be fair to
make use of this transaction as an argument to impeach the na-
tional character of this country ?. What would the honourable and
Learned Gentleman think, if, as a panknit to the picture which he
had drawn of the trials at Milan, the transactions at Hertford
were to be critically commented upon in a foreign Assembly,
and converted into an argument against the character of the Bri-
tish people? Such an argument would be quite as fair, and quite
as much to the purpose, as the argument which had been em-
ployed by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman—(lieer).—
The honourable and Learned Gentleman again referred to a ques-
tion which he put to me in the last Session on the subject of Swit-
zerland. I can assure the lionotu able and Learned Gentleman that
I answered his question in perfect sincerity, but he says, I ought to
have been better informed, especially by so' well-paid a mission.
This is an argumensuns ad huniiiient, and I may answer it therefore
by saying that on the Honourable and Learned Gentleman's own
principle I have a right to be deficient in information, for I have re-
duced the mission by half!—(A laugh). Whether the mission were
Well or ill paid, however, Ministers were not without information :
for the fact is, that scarcely a quarter of an hour after the Honours
able and Learned Gentleman put his question, on guing to my
Office I found papers containing the same detail of !acts to which
he had alluded, and coming probably, though he did not know it,
from the same source through which he had derived his intelligence.
With regard to the insinuation as to the views entertained by
Austria of obtaining Switzerland for a Prince of her own, I
have no hesitation in stating my conviction that there was not
a shadow of a foundation for any.part of the story. It is true
that remonstrances were made by Austria, on the ground of
Switzerland fusterug persons who had been engaged in a con-
spiracy against the Austrian Government. lam no champion•for
the propriety of those rebionstrances, because I cannot undertake
to vouch for the truth of the :sensations; but this I will say, that
if the accusations were true, those remonstrances were jus.. I be-
lieve that both I and the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
have been very much misled, with respect to. a great number of
stories which have been industriously circulated through Europe by
same very ill-disposed persons, who have been defeated in their
own factious views in Switzerland, sense of wham were, at. a for-
mer period, sufficiently known to me in this country to convince
woe of what they were capable. A great number of rumours
which have been circulated on the subject of • Switzerland are to
be ascribed to the misrepresentations of persons who have dis-
seminated unfounded statements of the interference of the great
Powers, acid who are known to have proposed their plans for the
regeneration of Goveraments to all the Tabinets of Europe.—
With respect to Germany, here again I ant no champion of the Ger-
man Constitution. I cannot well conceive a more inconvenient or
cumbrous system than that of the Germanic Diet, by which external
interference is exercised over the internal affairs of an independent"
, State. It is a part of the Caisiltution of the Germanic Confederaa
don to allow a corporate interferruce in the internal concerns of an
independent State. This is undoubtedly a bad institution,- and it
may have been applied unwisely or" oppressively with respect to a
particular, Newspaper yt one of the German States. But surely this
is a question over which this teuerry has no jurisdiction, and in
which we are not called npanto insarfure. If there has been an
improper interference with a ISfewapapet in one of the smaller Ger-
man States, are we for this reason to lookbut for fresh Allies/a--
Are we for this reason to take armsagalust the interfering Power,
and endeavour to blot it out from the snap of Jilorope? bly

refer Is simply this: 140 Dot think it for the interest Of tilt country
to take such a course, and as I know no conoldiration whisk *wild
43vertule that of interest, except duty, I do not think it nre limy to
erect the standard of perpetual war, and lay the foundation Oar the
disturbance of all F.erope--(Hear !) The Immediate consequence
of each a proceeding would be wax, and the disturbance of Europe
would be the ultimate consequence of that war. Europe bss .wits
messed at different times Wars of different characters; but of all the
wars which have brought desolation in their-train, wars of opinion
are those which have most afflicted the human race-.(Hear, hear !)
If this principle, which the Honourable and learned Gentleman
would apply to the Monarchies of Europe, were to be brought into
action-against ourselves, this country must rescue itself, and in res-
cuing itself, the sparks which would be kindled throughout free
Europe would raise a general conflagration, and the contest would
be continued till one or other people were extermitettetl. This should
not be the course of policy—this should not be the rule of conduct
to be laid down by a Minister of Great Britain. Let us rather keep
in harmony with the Powers of Europe, whether their internalin-
stitutioas be more or less perfect—let us move,on steadily in our own
orbit, not in obedience to say of those PoWers,lsut wholly inde-
pendent of them ; and while -we form a.prt of.a great and coma
prebensive system, let us not look with ton scrutinizing an eye into
the glory or the magnitude of the other rotifers by which we are
surrounded. Let it suffice that other Powers strike not against us,
and let us keep within our own orbit.; let the. light of our example,
and not our interference, lead others to a participation of the bless-
ings which we already enjoy, and let us not adopt a crusading system
by endeavouring to inflict our institutions on. other States, and by
that mode of infliction convert our blessings into curses—( Hear).
—This is the true policy of England—this is the policy which
Ministers have been anxious to • phesue. When a Just occasion
occurs for asserting the dignity of the country, let its dignity Ile
asserted. We do not seek an occasion for difficulty, but whenev--r
that occasion may arrister,it will, not find us unprepared ; on the
contrary, our entrgies.will be rather invigorated than impaired by
our previous repose. lam not aware that there i any other topic
adverted to by the Honourable and Learned Getftleman on which
lam directly called upon to make any observatiOn. The Honour-
able Seconder of the „Addle, concluded his speech by expressing
some sentiments with regard to the state of Ireland, its which I
heartily concur. I retain the same opinions which I have ever en-
tertained on the great question to which he adverted, and I still
retain the conviction, that, sooner or later, thOae opinions will
prevail in this House. Difficulties undoubtedly exist, and I inn
not sorry that the observations which fell from the Honourable
Seconder afford me an opportunity of saying a few words on. this
subject. There is no word which, in Parliamentary warfare, is
so often bandied about as inconsistency. Generally speaking, it
will be found, wised a charge of this kind is made, that the accus r
dovs not measere the individu d impeached with himself, but
with some arbitrary standard which he has biotic!: raised up.
it may be a very absurd opinion to hold, but I certainly du hold
it, that, in the present state of public opinion in this country,
the Catholic Question, as it is called, cannot be carried as a Govern-
meta question; and that public men, as they are now constituted,
do nor afford materials fur a Ministry united in their opiraiotie hi
to this measure. This may be a misfortune, supposing my opi-
nion to be well founded. Alt opinion may be a very absurd one,
but at any rate it is neat an opinion of to-day. i have alwayi
held thi, opinion whenever this question has been brought for.;
ward, and I have never therefore been inconsistent;. for Meath*.
teary is not differing in opinion from others, but differing from
one'sself. It has been attempted by the Honourable and Learned
Gt.:Orman, on a former occasion, and by Follies in another
place, to tz.sten upon me a charge of inconshrencyrestomy opinions
on this great questiom / remember particularly *tic.* another
place, by a whimaikal chOicei that period of my.ylplith.fife was
Elected, in which 1 had the best opportunity of shetrafroiiiistlnctly
What my opinions Wete with respect to,the subject-on -Whicli It Is
,
attempted to fasten Upon me a charge of inconsistrocy. it hat been
said, that as I was Willing in 'the- year 1812,- to form .part of ass
Adminietratinn, consisting of Lord Wellesley and inytelf, united
with others who might agree in opinion on the Catholic Question,
it was idconiisteni in me td act with any Government oiherwise
constituted. Now, whatever the history of this transaction might
have been, it must be. admitted to be unfair to bring forward:one
passage in the history and suppress another. When his• Majesty, then
Prince Regent, was gracinusly pleased to instruct the Marquis Wei-
'italoy and myself to Lorin au Administration, and the Marquis Wel-
lesley stipulated that he should make proposals t 0 some Ilan. Gen-
tlemen opposite; I immediately proposed to make a similar overture
to Lord Liverpool. This at least proves that I was then of opinion
that a combined Cabinet might exist, entertaining, different senti-
ments on the Catholic Claims, and that I held this opinion, wheal
'was called upon not to join, but to choose an Administration. It is
-true that the E.irl of titerpool and his friends declined at that tine
to belong to the Cloverntneist, and that" their declining did not induce
me to think that the formation of an Administration should •be.
abandoned ; hut the fact proves that I then entertained an opinion,
which still remains unaltered, that the Catholic question Is not to
be considered as a Government question, and that it is most likely
to be carried under= Administration composed of mixed elements.
This may be a very absurd opinion, but it is an opinion which. I
have unitormly held, and I confess, that its concurring with a Go-
v.eninient constituted as it is, of some of its ablest hlembers differ-
ing Irons me on this great'question, I still retain the hope and the
expectation. that the prejudices of this country with respect to it
may be in time reasoned down,and that it may at length meet with a
support-here, which, I am sorry to say, it dues nut at present find.
I am glad of the present opportunity of stating, that in whatever
shape, or at whatever time this great question may be brought for-
ward, it will always receive from me, whether •in or out of office,
the best support I am able to give it, and that I still entertain the
opinion winch held in the year 1812, that it is not to be carried as
a Government question, and that the means do not exist arpresent
of forming a Cabinet united on this great questiOn, and also concur
ring in all other great questions of policy on which the interests of the
country no less essentially depend. I purposely abnain'thom en-
tering into one most important topic, not because I underrate its
importance, but because an ample opportunity will be afforded of
discussing it at a more convenient period. The Ilan. and Learned
Gentleman confined himself to general discutsive topics, which I
have endeavoured to explain, I trust, to thesatisfaction of the House.
With respect to the foreign policy pursued by the Government, I
trust I have shewn, that without any compromise of the national
safety ; without any loss of the national honour ; without any dimi-
nution of the national resources, but, on the contrary, with a great
and happy augmentation of them, we have brought the country to
the state in which it has this day been represented to the House.
The Speech from the Throne is an account of our stewardship since
we last met; and though we do not challenge approbation, I trust
we may meet criticism without apprehension—( Hear, hear).
Mr. DALY explained. . .
Mr. BRIGHT protested against being understood to concur in
the system of policy which hail been adopted with respect to our
West India Colonies.

Mr. CANNING said, that the language of the Speech from the
Throne was, of course, to be understood as comprehending the sen-
timents of Ministers on that subject, and that the whole question
world' be open to discussion at'a future opportunity.
: 31r. PEEL said, the Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Mr.
Brougham) had seemed to imagine that there was an intention by
the Government to recommend to his Majesty some measure with
rreipect to the Catholics of Ireland. There was no ground, he
begged to say, for any such inference. As the Right Hon. Foreign
Secretary (Mr. Canning) had adverted to his opinions upon the Ca-
tholic question, he (4i. Peel)• could not puss the subject without'
observing, that, its the sentiments which he bad always entertained
upon it, he was equally confirmed.
Mr. HUME complained that there was no distinct statement in
the Speech fr im the Throne as to what taxes were to be taken off,
end what amount of relief was to be afforded to the country; but he
trusted the Chancellor of the Exchequer would state distinctly whe-
ther it was the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to take off any
-taxes, and if so, what were the taxes from which it was proposad
to relieve the country ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it was his
intention, at * very early period, probably hi the course of the next
fortnight, to give to the House a thorough explanation of the views
of his Majesty's Government as to the state of the finances of
the country, and the course of measures which they should
feel it their duty to recommend to the adoption of the House.—
'Under these Circumstances, he trusted neither the Honourable
Gentleman nor the House would consider that he was wantiug in
proper re-pest, if he declined at present entering into any specific
'statement of the measures which it was his intention to submit in so
short a period, and which he trusted would prove satisfactory both
to the House and the country.
The question on the Address was then put and carried, and the
Hon* adjourned at twenty minutes past Seven o'Clock.

The Coroner's Inquest held yesterday on the body of
Mr. Pisecs, of Bristol, returned a verdict of ~Found Drowned.'
There is no doubt of hii death having been accidental..
CORN FACMANGE, MARK-LANE, FEB. 4.
The arrivals of all sorts of grain this week are moderate.- Wheat
4,700, Barley 3,500,1)84 3,000 quarters ; Fleur 7,700. sacks. The
quantity of flour is eaniiderable, and war Millers pause in pur-
chasing, so that the wheat trade is reported dull, at Monday's eur-
coley. Barley does not stidw so freely as Con laserliarket day. In
Beassind 'Peas there is* skeration. 'Mete are but few Attest
=Acts =dna Wei*, tisti nude. obtain the terms of Monday.