Star.
London, England, 1822-02-23 00:00:00

THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.

The CH ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUERmoved
that the House do resolve itself into a Committee of
Ways and Means.
Colonel DAVIES begged to put a question to the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer). A few evenings ago, the Noble
Marquis who had entered so largely into the state of
the Public Accounts, said that the account which he
took as the basis of his calculations would be put into
the hands of Members without delay. Now it ap-
peared that in comparing the account so furnished
for
.the net expenditure of the year 1821 with the
finance accounts for the same period, that there was
a most extraordinary variance in several items, and
in the sum total. In short there was not an item in
this latter account for that year that did not vary
with the finance accounts for the same period. There
appeared to be in the whole a discrepancy of no less
than £1,961,000 between the two. If it was upon
this mode of furnishing the public accounts that the
Noble Marquis claimed the confidence of the. coun-
try, he (Colonel Davies) confessed his fears that the
Noble Marquis must feel greatly disappointed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
he was sure the House would not feel surprized that
there should be a variance in accounts of the same
thing, which they must see was furnished by different
officers, and each for a different purpose. It was not in
his power to explain at that moment the causes of the
variance in this particular case, but the House might
feel secure that no danger could arise from the cir-
cumstance, as each particular account would undergo
the review of the House.
Mr. HUME thanked his gallant Friend for putting
this question. He did not understand what the Right
Honourable Gentleman meantby furnishing accounts
I for different purposes. He held in his hand an ac-
count of the Public Revenue for 1821 ; and by that
it appeared there was a surplus balance of two mil-
lions. He had another account, which gave a quite
different view of the matter. It was not strange that
accounts for different periods should show some va-
riance; but it was extraordinary that such sht.uld be
the case in accounts fur the same period. He should,
under these circumstances, feel it his du.y to move,
before the House resolved itself into a Committee,
" That the Chancellor of the Exchequer be required
to reconcile the variances in the two . accounts, pur-
porting to be the Public Account for the year 18111:'
He afterwards said, that on consideration he should
writ for a future opportunity of moving e Resolution
to the above effect, accompanied with member, de-
clat itlg the amount of the variance.

a

Mr. •RlCARDO.wished to have an 'Waned*
from the Right Hon. Gentleman upon the folio**
subject :—Last year the Right Hon. Gentleman told
the House that there would be a clear 'surplus forthe
year ending sth January, 1821. of £950,000.
rather a Ef,100,000 ; but that £750,000 were to be
applied to the payment of arrears of interest on out-
standing Exchequer Bills. He also added, that the
year following there would be a clear surplus of four
millions, and that there would be no deduction from
that sum for the purpose of meeting any further ar-
rears of interest on Exchequer Bills. On looking to
the account foe last year, he perceived that the sur-
plus amounted to but two millions ; and being de-
sirous to see haw much had been applied to pay the
interest on Exchequer Bills. he found that a sum of
E 1,580,000 had been applied to that object. But on
more minutely.investigating the accounts, he disco-
vered that for interest alone on Exchequer Bills,
there had been two millions paid. Now, if it was in
this way that promises and proposed arrangements
were to be realized, what security was there that two
millions of the surplus'for the present year might not
also be applied in the same way?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said'
that the nature cf t!.e account respecting Exchequer
Bilk seemed not to be understood by the Hon. Gen-
tletnan. The House would remember that, until the
last two years, payment of the interest on all Exche-
quer Bills formed t u part of the annual grant, but
that .they were liquidated by Act of Parliament.—
However, after the necessary sums for interest on
Exchequer Bills became part of the Supplies of the
year, there remained a portion of them still under the
former head. But the I-lon. Gentleman had no reason
to complain that there was not any facility given to-
wards explaining the account of Exchequer Bills.
Mr. ELLICE wished to ask two _questions of the
Right Hon. Gentleman. The first was, whether or
not, after what had passed, it was the intention of
Government to propose the appointment of a Com-
mittee to arrange the public accounts for the year, as
it must be evident that a measure of that nature was

absolutely necessary? The next question was this—
last year the Right Hon. Gentleman gave an answer
to a question pnt by him, to the effect, that supposing
the computed surplus of £4,000,000 should arise, it
should be applied to the liquidation of the Debt; but
in case that sum did not arise, he would still apply a
sum of £4,000,000, making up the difference between
that amount and the real surplus by an issue of Ex-
chequer Bills. Now it appeared that the real surplus
for that year was £2,000,000, and that the sum placed
at the disposal of the Commissioners of the Sinking
Fund was £4,403,000 ; he wished to know whether
the difference was made up ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
with regard to the first question, that he had already
stated that it would be. desirable to have the public
accounts simplified, and he did not know a better
mode of pi oceeding than by the appointment of a
Committee. He stated this, however, without com-
mitting himself to any particular time. As to the
other question, it Would require a more detailed ex-
planation. The amount of .the Sinking Fund was
already fixed by Act of Parliament, and therefore not
ander the controul of Parliament. The Sinking Fund
it was intended should be supplied by the surplus of
Revenue, and where that was insufficient, it was the
practice to supply the deficiency by an issue of Ex-
chequer Bills.
Mr. CURWEN wished to know if it was the in-
tention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to propose
the imposition of a tax on the importation of tallow,
and diminish the taxes on soap and candles ?
Mr. TIERNEY asked if he was to understand the
Right Ilon. Gentleman to mean, that when the sur-
plus on the Consolidated Fund was not sufficient to
mica up the necessary amount, it was usual to supply
the deficiency by an issue of Exchequer Bills ?—(The
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, across the table,
that he meant to say so.)—Then, assuming that to be
so, he would ask the House whether the Sinking Fund
was not a delusion ?—(Hear, hear).
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said

he was surprised that the Right lion. Gentleman,
who had so extensive a knowledge of the finances of
the country, should be ignorant that by law there
was every year a certain sum appropriated to the
support of the Sinking Fund, which sum was to be
taken from the Consolidated Fund. In the event of
there being a deficiency in that Fund, that deficiency
was made up by the issue of Exchequer Bills, and
these issues took place quarterly, to indemnify the
Bank of England for the advances which they made.
This was the course when there happened a deficiency.
But, on the other hand, when there was an excess in
the amount of the Consolidated Fund, and above the
sums appropriated to the Sinking Fund, the Public
had the advantage of it, and this excess, in regard to
future payments, was placed to the credit of the Con-
solidated Fund—(Hear, hear).—This had been the
practice for many years.
Mr. TIERNEY said, he owed an apology to the
Right Hon. Gentleman for the error into which he
had fallen. His ignorance arose from his not having
meddled with the question of Finance for the last five
or six years, and iu that time things bad gone so
much out of his way, and so much confusion had
crept into the public accounts, that he was now as
much at sea upon Finance as if be had. never paid
any attention to the subject. There was a time, how-
ever, when he attended to this important branch of
the public tervice'rather closely, and he had reason to
regret the loss of the facilities then held out Lr in-
vestigating it,. when, 'by the able arrangements of
Mr. Pitt, the public accounts were simplified sina
rendered intelligible—(Hear). At the present day
the accounts were so involved, that he was sure there
were not three Members is the House who clearly
understood them. Aler the explanation .41. the Itiabr
Hon. Gentleman. the matter was plain enough ; bait
why were not the accounts made out in such a way,
as to Kilda rimse explanations on the part of the

. .
Right Hen. Gentlemao untgcessary ?—(Hear, hear.)
In illstice r,, the
.t!tuntry this‘tatement should have
bee mad.- Iseftwe,'and we/nat.-he seen that the pub-
lic credit slid Got •degend upon that Sinking Fund
which was lauded,o rnsich 'Joon all hands, hut upon
the coritinglency of whether the Bank would make
the advances or not-IYear, hear). He (Mr. Tier-
ney) did not blame the Chancellor of the Exchequer
for this state ,if things, but he quarrelled with him
for ho ding ont to the country that it was to the ex-
istence of a Sinking Fund that we owed our credit,
whilst it was, in fact, upon the Bank that we de
.pended--( Hear, hear).
'Mr. BRIGHT, alluding to what had fallen from
the Hon. Me Lber for Cumberland (Mr. Curwen), as
to the imposition of atax upon imported tallow, said
he should protest against the tajcink off a tax from
one article and placing it upon another, with a. view
of giving relief to any one branch of the public in-
dustry. This change' was proposed with a view of
taking off a burden from the grower, but it would
fall upon the manufacturer. Imposing a tax upon
imported tallow; would have the effect of raising the-
price of the commodity. He (Mr. B.) was an adeo-
cate'for a reduction of taxation as far as it could be
car, led, but he protested against shifting the burthen
from one pair of shouldet sto another. The distress
was not confined to one class, but all were equally
entitled to relief. It was but too common with Gen-
tlemen in this House to be assuming a monopoly of
distress for certain classes which they had no right to
do. He would therefore recommend, if they did
oot take off all the burdens, at least not to be so un-
just as to relieve one class at the expense of another.
Mr. CURWEN complained that the Hon. Member
had mistaken the tenour of the observations which he
had made. He deprecated the idea of transferring
a tax from any one class to another. His object
would be to increase the duty on Russian tallow to
£3 3s. 4d. per cwt. so as to raise the price, and this
increase would allow of a reduction in the articles
cf soap and candles. At present this commodity,
which was sold for three-pence halfpenny per pound
in Russia, was sold in England for four-pence
(Hear). He wisheJ again to say, that he had no in-
tentio of shifting this tax from one class to another.
Mr. N. CALVERT and Colonel Woos spoke in fa-
vour of the duty.