Star.
London, England, 1825-06-24 00:00:00

PAR,

- _
Mr. Vl/111AL ippeired at theftordships Bar, and prayed for
further time in this case, in order to be able to bring forward the
body of evidence on which he founded his case. lie said that it
was utterly impracticable for him to bring that evidence forward
at present, which he considered essential to establish the rights of
his client. The Petitioner who bad been heard had attained fifteen
years of age before he laid claim to the*Gardoer Peerage, and-it
could Not be any inconvenience to him, or injery to his claim, to
let the matter wad over till next Session. If it could be any de-
triment, why had he not preferred his claim before? Unless the
prayer of his client were granted. it would operate.as a denial of
justice, because he was not in a condition to bring forward important
witnesses. The only inconvenience that could occur to the present
claimant would be the death of any witness; but that loss &odd
easily be supplied by ethers, and with equal advantage to the party.
Bet to his client, who had not as yet been able to procure ail the
evidence necessary, it world be highly dangerous to proceed at the
present period, for the House would only be acting on a partial
view of the case. If any doubts arose in their Lordships minds
whether the person whom he represented had occasioned any de-
lay, their Lordships might call forward the Solicitor who bad eon.l
ducted the case, and examine kim ae to the fact. But as no delay
was attributable to his client, be trusted that their Lordships
would be pleased to postpone the further consideration of this case
till nest Session of Parliament. Even if the case was to go on now
it could not be decided till nest Session. Under these circum-
stances, he humbly hoped that their Lordships would accede to his
prayer for further time. • •
The Soutwroa-Gsseaat opposed the prayer for delay. The
whole case had been delayed from time to time, and now came the
climax of delay. He did not know what delay they would have, if
a year's time was not enough, for they had had already fifteen
months' time to prepare themselves. The only point in his opinion
upon which any doubt had arisen, or at least on which they had
started any difficulties, was the period of gestation, and upon that
they had four months to bring medical men forward to substan-
tiate their case. They had time to bring them from England,
Scotland, and from Ireland—nay, from Paris, if necessary. He
was at a loss to know from what quarter the medical men were to
come—whether any were to come from Tartary, St. Petersburgb,
Siberia, or Turkey ; or whether they were to be brought from Co-
lombia, Buenos Ayres, or New Zealand. What were they to
prove? the question of access or non-access ? and surely, upon a
qnestion so familiar and domestic, they had time enough to prove
if scything of the kind bad taken place—(Laughter).
Mr. ADAM on the same side, said, that Henry Fenton Gardner
W presented his claim in March, 1524, to the Attorney-General,
aid that fifteen months had elapsed since the other party had no-
des to prepare. He considered that tßae ample enough to prepare
as answer. But Mr. Tyndal had formerly prayed for time till
del 20th June to be ready, and that time had now passed, yet he
was not in a condition to proceed with his case.
Mr. Tirstasc said, that as to the appearance before the Attorney-
General, the report only stated that " Henry Fenton Gardner ap-
peared before the Attoreey-General. to prosecute his claim before
as House of Lords." When he (Mr. Tyndal), had applied for
delay, be only wished that the matter might stand over generally.
How could he state his case to their Lordships, when he had not
Vet the examination of the medical men upon whose opinions he
was to found his case? It would be upon their opinion that he
would mainly rest his case. He did not wish to hatch a case, as had
been insinuated by his Learned Friend. If their Lordships had any
doubts on their minds as to the delay sought, they might question
the person who conducted the case.
The LOUD CHANCELLOR said, that this application was
of great importance and of great delicacy,—if no other was' con-
cerned but that of the party at the b.,r, ikv should Iyeikitt no
case bad been made out. The Learned Counsel (Mr. 'Meal)
said that the evidence could not be lost by the delay sought,
because it could be supplied by the evidence of other persons—
if that be so, why would it not apply to the person whe opposes
the claim? The truth was, that the Crown had an interest in this
case, and their Lordships were bound to do justice to the Crown
as well as to the parties claiming. If the Learned Gentleman
could make out a case of delay, why not produce evidence touch-
ing the question of gestation? which was the only material thing, in
his judgment. The better way would be for their Lordships to
report to the House, that the person who opposes the claim is not.
ready to proceed, and the House could call the witnesses necessary
to the question, and the Learned Counsel could say whether he de•
dined to bring forward these witnesses or not.
Mr. Truism . said, that Rh was their Lordships wish, he would
bring forward what witnesses he bad, though they might not be
the most Important to his case.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY asked Jibe *as ready with those
witnesses now ?
Mr. MODAL said that he was not, but he would bring them for.
ward any day the Committee might appoint.
The further proceedings were adjourned.
ANNANOALE PLERAGE.
The Lords' Committee of Privileges, according to appointment,
entered into the consideration of the claim of John James Here
Johnstone, of Annandale. Esq. eldest son of Sir William John.
stone Hope, Bart. by Lady Ann, who was eldest daughter or
James, Earl of Hopetoun,who, by the death of Marquis George
in 1752, succeeded to the estate and Earldom of Annandale, and
died in 11116 without male issue. Lady Ann, being the daughter
of Earl James, succeeded, on failure of issue male ; and conse-
quently to her ought to succeed the claimant, her eldest son, under
, the limitations in the Letters Patent of King Charles the Second.
IN 1841, and Charter by that Monarch in 1662, which were "to
James, Earl of Annandale and Harden, and the heirs male of his
body; whom failing, to the heirs female of his body; and to the
heirs male of the body of the eldest heir female; whom failing, to
the nearest heirs and assignees of the EarL" The Claimant' as
heir male of the body of the heir female, Lady Ann, claims the
title in terms of the Patent and Charter in 1861 and 1662. Mr.
KEAY argued in favour of the Claimant ; and the ATTOINZY Ga.
mutat. (the Lord Advocate being absent) having required a day or
two to prepare himself thoroughly on the part of the Craven, it
was, under the circumstances, ordered that their Lordships Com•
mine, adjourn farther consideration of this claim until next
Session. It being necessary, proof that Lady Henrietta Countess
of Hopetoun, died a considerable time before Marquis George,
who died in 1792, was afforded by the testimony of the Right Hun.
Lord Lyndech, who was well acquainted with the family.
Mr. Town, from the Treasury, presented accounts of the value
and quantity of the Baltic and American timber imported.
The Quarantine Laws Regulation Bill was read a third time and
passed, as were several private Bills.
JUDGES SALARIES AUGMENTATION BILL.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved-the Order of the
Day for the second reading cf the Judges' Salaries
Augmentation Bill. The Noble Earl observed, that it
was unnecessary to trouble their Lordships on this sub-
ject to any considerable extent. There were several
Bills upon the table of the House, all of which tended
to the same point; he would first move the second
reading of the Bill for abolishing the sale of offices in
the Court of King's Bench. He- could only say, that
the principle of these Bills had been thoroughly consi-
dered, and all who had attended to the important sub-
ject, admitted that in justice the regulation, as it had
previously been, required some alteration.. At present
a great portion of the salary of the Chief Justice of the
Curet of King's Bench was procured by the sale of
offices, which was, in' the estimation of all who had
duly weighed the matter, an unseemly thing, and a
much better plan was suggested by Parliament in the
abolition of the sale e.f those offices, and in fixing the
Judges' salaries, once for all, as they ought to be fixed.
It was intended by this Bill not only to abolish the sale
of all offices whatsoever, but that all sinecure places in
those Courts should be prospectively abolished ; those
persons who now held such offices being of course ex-
empted from any such tegulat,on. The Bill had, then,
three grand objects, first, to do away with the sale of

to be, it must be of course arbitrary; the. Bill proposed
the following arrangement, and that arrangement he
confe-sed met with his approbation. It was proposed
then to give to the Chief Justice, of the King's Bench,
who,standing as he did in a high and responsible situa-
tion, had higher claims than the other Judges, a clear
salary of 10,0001. a year ; to give to the Chief Justice
of the Court of Common Pleas, 8,0301. a year; the
Chief Baron of the Court of ExChequer. 7,0001. a year ;
the Master of the Rolls, 7,0001. the Vice-Chancellor,
6,0001. and the Puisne 'Judges, 5,5001. There were
different opinions as to the sum that'ought to be fixed ;
but considering the respectability, the responsibility,
the tfme of life, and the high rank of the Judges, to-
gether with the laborious duties they had to perform, be did not
conceive the sum decided upon to be at all too much, or that any
individual holding those distinguished offices would be overlaid.—
Their Lordships should consider that the persons to fill those dices
should be sought for from among those Barristers who were
spectabie business • that they iota beaelleleatly far adveasia& is
life to be experienced in the important duties they had to perform,
and yet young enough to enable the country to look forward to
have the benefit of that experience for a considerable period. Now.
It would be impossible to look for such persons, unless their salaries
were sufficiently large to enable them to support the rank they
were promoted to. Under these circumstances, be felt confident
tit!' their Lordships would agree with him in ceasidering the regu-
lation proposed by this Bill was necessary and just.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN gave his unqualified
approbation to the mode of paying the Judges by sala-
riest instead of the sale of offices, which was both degrad-
ing to their character and must place them sometimes
in unpleasant situations. He did not know enough of
the subject to form a decided opinion himself, but he
had heard it said that the salaries should be somewhat
less than what was proposed, and the retired allowance
somewhat more. He should be sorry that Parliament
:should go too far, for if the Judges were overpaid, the
situation would become one of political influence,which
ought to be strictly separate from the administration of
justice, instead of realising the assertion of Mr. Cottu is
his otherwise excellent work on English jurisprudence,
that the Government inexorably exacted from the
Chief Justices a complete coincidence in opinion with
them. . Parliament had also to guard, after the present
fees should be abolished, against the progressive rise of
others to impede public business and render it dispels.
dious. The Noble Marquis then called the attention of
the House to the state of judicature in Wales, which
remained on a footing decidedly the reverse of that on
which it was placed in England, both by anterior sta-
totes and by the present Bill. When there was a general
I review and improvement of the system of justice throughout 'the
country, was such an anomaly to be suffered to subsist in Wales?
No reason had ever been adduced in its support except one of tech-
nical forms, as that it was inconvenient that the King's Writs should
be allowed to run beyond the Severn and-the Dee, lest the jealousy
of that powerful Sovereign, the Prince of Wales, should be excited.
Ide hoped that the subject would occupy the attention of the Com-
nUssioners of Inquiry and of their Lortiihips.
Lord ELLENBOROUGII contended, that if the
object of the Bill was to prevent at once the sale of
offices, that object would not be attained by the pre-
sent measure. Neither would it put an end to a single
fee, for both the Noble Ea 1 and his Noble Fliend
seemed unacquainted with the history of feet.
(Lord Ellenborough's) office, which was one of the first,
the fees were rather smaller than they had been two
hundred years ago, and there was no record of any ai.
teration or increase in them since 1605. He believed
that the sale of offices by a Chief Justice was a thing
which had scarcely ever taken place. Sinecures might
be given to his relations, but high offices were not sold.
But when theie was no objection to selling the Advow-
son of a Living, he did not see why there should be
any to the sale of a Ministerial Office in a Court of
Law. However, he admitted the public feeling, was
against it. The Noble Lord then compared the situa-
tion of the Chief Justice at present, with a revenue
double that of the other Judges, the high patronage of
his situation, and the receipt of all the fees belonging to
it, with that which it was intended to make him occupy
by the Bill, which did not even give him a salary dou-
ble that of the Puisne Judges. It was usually deemed
of importance that he should hold a seat in that House,
but would it be prudent for a Chief Justice, without
any private fortune of his own, and with a salary of
only 10,0001. a-year to take a title ? Could he save
enough to transmit,it in the manner in which it °tight
to be supported to his descendants ? The revenue of the
Chief Justice arose principally at present from the
quantity of business which he did, and all knew that
interest must, to a certain extent, influence exertion.
The Bill before the House removed that incentive, and
one of its effects would be that an additional num-
ber of Judges must be created, or the business
would grow too great for those in existence. The
Noble Lord then objected to the retired allowance
of the Puisne Judges, be ng 3,5001. out of a salary of
5001. whilst that of the Chief Justice was to be only .
4,0001. although his salary was 10.0001. The retired
allowance ought to bear an equal proportion to their re-
spective salaries. He contended that the disposition of several of&
ces, such as that of Marshal of the King's Bench, was not touched •
by the BiU. It abounded with inaccuracies :in oce place money
was ordered to be paid to the executors of a man during his natural
I life. In another the object of consolidation was directed to be ef-
fected in the longest possible mode. In his opinion the public would
practically derive no immediate advantage from the measure ; even
the abolition of the sale of offices was postponed to a long period.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL maintained that no office
was to be saleable trots the passing of the Bill ; but ad-
mitted that it was not intended to touch those which
bad been sold, and which were in the possession of iadi-
viduals. With respect to those it had been thought prefer-
able to allow them to expire, rather than to buy out the
existing interest. Had the latter been done individuals
would never have thought that they had receivedenough,
whilst the public would have conceividthat the Govan-
went had paid them too much. The abolition of sale-
ability was intended to apply to all offices. As to the
mode of paying the Judges much might be :id on both
sides ; but was it consistent with present feelings, or
prejudices, if the House would call them so, that the
lehict Justices of the Courts of King's Bench and Com-
mon l'leas instead of being rewarded openly by salaries,
should be paid indirectly by something which sounded
so unpleasantly as the sale of offices ? The revenue of the
Chief Justice, it was said, was at present
the other Judges, and ought to be

- • • I

• . - IC. -11`17iir,,)1:-
1 , jot
111" Vi
• .
• , , 4_
I / , Pea r ant
~
. • f",
....
4....
• 4;tip 4. , ''''.4,.,' , .as i . "
otat
A' • It z_,
'ex -
(if lu.no spa
—,—.--
1825. - PRICE SEVEN PENCE. ' - •
' ............... - ~:...o.olg 1
NUAMENTARY PROC6EDINGS. offices; secondly, the abolition of all si!tec Ire places in .
—...... .he Courts of Law; and thirdly, to give such salaries
HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE 23. to the Judges of the land as should be considered ma- -
THE GARDNER PEERAGE. sonable and just : with respect to what that su ought
. __. t__ . • _.__ _r ---- --1.:......... A.. Rai m
nrneestd

sent double that of
continued so; that