Star.
London, England, 1804-02-09 00:00:00

to precipitate a meaftire which. 0 yak
*ems
theS-
prelim, might be produetive °fibs oak eisikbk.

anus corifequences. ,
Mr. STURGES joined In esprei leg bk fedfdli
nnt at what was intended to be done by the
motion, but at what was not done. He thourtlit
a bufinefs of fo great importance as {lie pedant, • '
would have originated with greeter propriety us a
Committee of the whok Houle: There it was more
likely that a cotrpaa and regular fabric might have
been conftruaed, than in the loofe manner in which
the prefent motion was introduced. Government, he
conceived, was guilty of fomething like a breach of
faith, in attempting to commute the five days rervice
in contemplation of wlsich Volunteers had engaged;
into a dervice of so days. It was no doubt Paid to
them, that they were at liberty to withdraw; but
then, it was alto laid, that if they chore to continue,
they molt do fo on terms different from thole on
ohich• they engaged. He hoped the Right Isn.
Secretary would fully weigh the principles on which
he was proceeding. He trolled that he would avail
himfelf of the period which might elapfe previous to
the introdu6tion of the Bill, to take into ferrous con-
fideration the objeaions which had been fuggefted by
many Gentlemen of talents in this Houle.- There
were unfortunately ender the prefent adminiftration
of affairs, men of great talents in this Houle, who
were never heard but within the walls of it
The ATTORNEY GENERAL expreffed his
opinion that every advantage which could be derived
from the bufinefs originating in a Committee of the
Houle, would equally arife from the prefent dilcuf-
fioo. It was unquestionably the province of Mini,
flers to proper& what they thought belt calculated for
the fervice of the country, and to bear the lugger'.
lions of the Houfe on the fobjea. His Ltarncl
Friend (Mr. Sturges) bad accured Government of
breach of faith. This he could not conceive to be
carte& Had Government altered the terms on.
which the Volunteers had been engaged, and had,
' notwithltanding. refufed them the liberty of refign-
ing,ther: might have been fomeground for the charge
but if, on the other hand, Government found that it
bad ailed in an impolitic manner. it would be ridi-
culous to fuppofe that they were not entitled to change
the fyllem. The opinion which he had delivered on
the fubjeril of Volunteers, he was now inkruesd was
erroneous. He would be glad, however, to know
what Volunteers had engaged to do If they bad not
engaged to come out when called on, they had
engaged to do nothing. He thould not detain the
Route with Rating the grounds of the opinion be bad
given, which he was now convinced was erroneous.
Mr. STURGES-explained.
Mr. T. GRENVILLE roles rat to debate se •
large the whole of the propofed Bill in detail, as there
would be many opportunities for doing that in the
cootie of its fubfequent Rages, but to abidefry the
injunaions of the Right Hon. Secretary on the ppm,
ing of his propofition, by receiving from him calmly
the explanation he had to give, and deferring debate
upon the fribjea to a future opportunity f he could
not, however, leave that Houle, without exprefutg
his furprize and alionifhment, in common with his
Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Windham), at the
explanation he had given. He coincided in the ju-
dicious fuggefticn of Learned*Gentleman tinder
the gallery (Mr. Sturges), notwithfianding the man-
ner in %%loch his opinion had been attacked by the
Attorney General, and from which it would feet*
almolt criminal to call in quefiion the ermfnenmato
wiftiont of his Majeßy's Miniflers, upon a fabjefl se •
which they had already difpireal Co much verfatir
lity of opinions and condo& He could not, how•
ever, fee the criminality of fuggelling to his Ma.
jelly's Minillers, the propriety of an appeal to the
united %victims' of that Houle, upon bringing forward
a queflion of fetch vital importance, iniiead o: pm►
ing forward with one fo utterly and totally insider
quate to the objea propofed. It was not his inters.
tion to have Paid fo much in the relent Rage of the
bufinefs; but his objea in riling was to detend the
right and neceffity of appeal to a committee of the
whole Houle, upon a meafirre of k. much impor.
lance; and for the friggeftion of which fn muck
cenfure bad been thrown upon the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman. He &mild not now argue. whether nV
not the difmiffal of a Corps for &fretting the right of
elcling their Officers, was or was not a breach of
faith on the part of Government ; but he fiecerd/
recommended to his Maje.ty's Minifters, before they
brought forward the qoellion for ultimate dircuffions
to make up their minds. and learn to agree with each
other upon the point, for this night they teemed at
variance. The Right Hon. Gentleman alerted that
the right of eleaing officers never was poirdTed by
the Volunteers, and that the denial of that right was
no breach of faith. The Millie Lord (Caillereagli)
argued as if it was a breach of faith ; for though he
flared Itch a claim to be a violation of the military
piinciple, and fo far agreed with his Right Hon.
Colleague, yet much as he admired and loved that
principle, he thonght it good in time cafes only ter
be departed (rim ; for he soured. that the Crow
Ihnuld mull tenaciouQy keep faith with the Volvo-
leers up-n this point. The Right Hen. Secretary of
State arllrted the right of the Crown to dirmifs any
Corps afferting inch 64 privilege; and (Ise Noble trod,
while he admitted the right of the Crown, iriiled
von the neceffity of relaxing it in this cafe. Upon
which of thefe was the Houle to fa their cone.
dance ? or how was the Hours to accept a propnfition,
as adecorate to its purports. upon which his ?d.j.:l4'e
Minillers, Wing in C.,uncil by each other, could not
agree ?
Lord CASTLEREAGH, in explanation, eienied
that he had offered the arguments imputed to him
by the Right Hon. Gentleman ; or that any thin% he
had raid in the cootie of the debate w..s at Vat •Ance
with the arguments of his Right Honourable Friend
the Secretary of State, or his Learned Friend the
Attorney General. What he had raid was, that if
there w rs anv particular corps contlituted with the
patticular privilco,e r f elating its own Officer*, by
fpecial compai with the er.io n, fo long as that
corps was allowed to tontinuc its elitlence, the Crowe
was bound to klcp both with it ktupolorifly, epos
the terms and cot. fitia.ns of their original Continua
lion; hut he by no means denied the privilege of the
Crown to diimifs that corps wheneser it Ibould be
deemed esped;ent to diiicontinin its fervices.
Mt. IIOBHOUSE recapitulated formai of the
arguments which had been urged on both fides of
the queßion. Upon the whole be concluded, dim;
as tome Gcodersaa had *smiled their &girlie end

*armament at what had not been done, now he muft
in his torn expreti his fuprize and aftoni(hment that
thofe Gentlemen had not fuggelled any mode that
Mould be adopted, or advifed as to what fhould be
done. The only fair coaclufion that be could fairly
draw from the fpeeches of thofe per lons was, that they
thought themfelves the only fit perfons to advife his
Moiety in the place of thole who were in prefent his
MajearsCounfellors. They had fpoken of the fine
fabric being in decay;and (aid that it required but.
treffes to fupport it ; but they never prefented to the
Houfe any model of.a buttrefs which they would re-
commend to be adopted.
Mr. GRENVILLE explained. It was particularly
neceßary, when the Houfe had to amend an important
ateafure of Government, that the bufinefs fhould be
reviled in a Committee of the whole Houfe.
Dr. LAWRENCE obferved, that when Gentle-
men
had exprefied their forprife, it was only what
might very naturally be expected on a view of the va-
rious changes which had taken place in the minds of
his Majelly'sminifiers. If, however, the obfervation of
a Right Hon. Gentleman oppofite (Mr. Hobhoufe)
was corns% as to the defire of getting the places of
. Knitters being the principal fiimulus to an oppofition
to their meafures, it mull be fairly inferred that, as
that Hon. Gentleman had for lis many years regularly
o*efed the meafuresof his Majefiy'sminifiers. thathis
oily view was to get on that Batch on which he now
fits [the Troafeiry Batch]. It was Paid that the Bill was
to be palled with a view only to change the number
of days from y to ad, and to declare as law what the
Court of King's Bench had decided to be law al-
ready. This was neither more nor lefs than raying,
' that we were to parses Ad of Parliamentforthetrifiing
perm* of changing the number of a few days, and
of explaining what required no explanation. It
would be much more becoming the dignity of the
Hoofs, madvthe importance of the quelson, to take
the fads of the whole Houle, than to flight Co great
a qadby the ()elfin of a little BA which. in
lid, erelnng.
Mr. theretary YORKE explained. His intention
is &Moak( has forma (pact was to declare, that
be did set think an entire regular force was to well
anicalated for the defence of this country, as an army
emapefed of a wised forte of regulars, militia, and
waluaceen, united togetha in the general ante.
The CHANCELLOR of the =CHEWER
*desired the Houk. to the following elle Sir,
IAA am detain the Houk at any ftngth t and I
Start merdy fay a few words before any decifion
tikes piece ea the prefent %Denim. During the
elle the diktats has idld. I have, after the moR
maltase attack* to the arguments advanced by the
diftirent Guidance who have fpoken again( the
ma which is peopled to be brought in, been wh-
ale to Ahem any material *ear= to its merits,
tint the inemovarents which it prattles to intro-
dam The prepnety of originating the ineafine is
a Counittee of the whole Hotrk.as indeed been
dwelt epee, and urged as the bell way of giving
k the of great talents, the benefits
'‘Z2
Gem emimisoce, and all the advantages which
t rod by bthemetioa of various kinds, connected
• a MIA lb highly and defervedly intereaing
to the Cannery and its defence, as the Volunteer
=Ohm ate leave to fay, Sir, that &oh Ges-
tate have apreffed drift regret that the Bell
did net elisions Ice aCemunittesofthe whole Houk,
are aet borne eat by the bl
ear rallies of the
• Soak emelikoe d a great yingiaanttrorbade.--
IDatift *Oil war, when gasifies, were
tellichlovieh“, in a aura material degree, the eft
fame of the country, when we were called upon to
provide the bell means of rotation and keuray, the
namliftee then deemed adequate to the objea in view
morebtught forward guilty in the fame way as that
to which this evening our anemia) is direfted; in no
Mean which occurs to my mind, did any one of
' them originate in a Committee of the whole Houk.
rsoenywereVll Admitted to the confideration of Par-
t in the &I safe. and had afterwards the bene-
fit of all poffibie enquiry and information. In the
fitbforent lieges and proceediensggss of the Houk, the
objeftionabk parts were canvaffed, and fuch alters.
tiers and amendments were made u teemed bell cal-
culated to promote the fafety of the country. With re-
to the prefent Bill, which prop?fes to confolidate
aid amend the different Ails relative to the Volun-
teer fyllem, it will of court. poffefa all the advan-
tages enjoyed by tholeto which I have alluded ; and
Ckatlemen will have every opportunity, continent
with the rule and kitties of our proceedings, to offer
miaow and correction of what appear erroneous
and defective in any of its branches and provifions.
Iffy Right Hon. Friend, I mutt beg leave to imprefs
ft on the Houk, never Rated that his Bill was fo
admirably framed as to bring to the hi ell degree
of perfection the Volunteer fyttem. 'ftch a Rate-
meat would be molt extraordinary and unaccounta-
ble. That a meafare fo very novel, fo van in its ex-
tent, fo highly important io its principles, and to
intimately connected by its numbers and Anne'
with the defence of the country, could not be per-
fee, my Right Hon. Friend was well aware. He knew
the difficulties Which it was neceffary to funnount
in order to render that great and patriotic exertion
of the national force conducive to the stand ends
for which it was defigned ; and he merely wifhed,
by the new regulations, to give to it all the fupport
and efficiency of which it was fufceptible. In con-
fidering the plan, as it has been Columned by him to
the Houfc in bringing forward his motion, it appears
to me to be reducible to three heads. The firfi re-
lates to the eleEtion of officers, the fecond to the
power of Military Committees, and the third to the
general quellion of refignatiou. Upon all there
points he his ftated his own opin'on and that of his
Majesty's Minifters. My Right Honourable Friend
has exprefsly doted, that the Committees ought nut
to have any authority of a military nature or defcrip-
lion. This Sir, is declared as a matter ..1 opinion,
(*Mica mod undoubtedly to any coliation which the
wildom of the Houfe may think tit to give to it, and
upon that ground and meaning he has brought for-
ward his prefent motion. Then, Sir, as to the quef-
tinn of the eleition of officers, what bag bee a• the
fiatement uf my Right Hon. Friend? That in all cares
where there is no dircel contra& or engagement
between the Volunteer Corps and hi. 11414,04's Go-
vernment, it is not to be esercifed but that where
ttuie ir a Jima comraß, the fair erstideration of
good 13ith would fuperfede what was due to the prin-
ciple, by which the elation of ()thous ought to be

prevented. Thus the ptinciple will be preferred where
it can operate with propriety. and thofe Corps which
have entered into fpecific engagements and emit:at:is,
will be entitled to all the benefits ariting from the
jell obfervance or good faith : but in thole where
no compai exifts, there certainly can be AO violation
of good faith in carrying the principle into area.—
No attempt has been made, I am proud and happy
to fay, to fritter away the free agency of this patriot
army, which I contend is the life and foul of the Vo-
lunteer fyftem. With regard to the right of refig.
nation. I have had no doubts as to what fhould be
our rule of condua ; and I fhould have recommended
to the Houk, had the opinion of the firft Law
Officer of the Crown been faationed by the deci.
fion of the Court of King's Bench, to pars a Bill
authorifing the right of refignation. Free agency is the
grand fpnng which gives movement, life, and fpirit
to the Volunteer inftitution ; and its impulfe will be
irrefillibly felt fhould the enemy call forth its energies.
Yet I cannot avoid expreffing my conviftioo, that no
individual of the Volunteer Army will exercife that
right without fubftantial and decifive motives. 1
;run no cede but one of the molt imperious kind
will induce any one, in the prefent crifis, to refign
the fituation which he fo honourably fills in the com-
mon defence of the country. Thofe who, in the ino-
anent of danger, fitould be guilty of fuck meattnefs,
will have no alternative but that of being eonfigned
to perpetual ignominy and theme. When Gentlemen
allude to the difeipline of the Volunteers. they
do not treat the fubjea as they fhould. Since July
their progrefs has been great and furprifing, and their
attention to duty, and their ardour, have furpaffed
the molt linguine expeaation. With refpea to
what has been thrown out on the fulled of our re-
gular military force, no affection has been made as
to its certain and exaa amount and extent; and it
is obvious that the defence of the country depends
upon its diverfified force applied to one grand ob-
jet, though in a different manner. I thall. however,
undertake to maintain. that in Great Britain and
Ireland there is at this moment a greater number of
regular troops tban has ever been before am-
bled ; and from them. fupported by the fpontaneous
exertions of the nation, we have every thing to
hope. 'The Volunteer fyftem is the proudeft mo-
nument, the molt glorious tribute which a whole
people could offer to the Cooftitation of their
country. We cannot. indeed, undertake to make
it pedal in all its branches and details; but al-
though we cannot in that refpea accornplillt what
is the neare6 with to our hearts, let us cherith it,
let us remove its ideas as much as poffible, let us
profit by experience, and let us, by all the means
which are in our power. improve and promote it,
as the molt glorious teftimony the affeCtion of a whole
nation can offer to their Sovereign, and to their con-
Ititution I Let us confider, how we can frengthen
and confofidate it, not merely to enable us to triumph
over all the dangers which threaten us in the prang
erifis, bat for the purpofe of perpetuating the fyitelas
and of fixing the bats fo ftrongly that it may tab for
ars, and prove the fatisfalory pledge of Our fees-
nty and inelepnadence." Mr. Addington concluded
with declaring. that the motion had his cordial
fawn.
Sir W. YOUNG entered at tome length into the
defies of the Volunteer Syftem, which be thought
narrowed the Royal Prerogative by an irregular ap.
of Officers and cooditions unknown toehe
'arj ferric,. which his Majelly bad a right tor
uneloggod by any limitation.
The quefiton was then pet and carried, and Mr.
Yorke and fame others appointed to bring in the Bill.
The Right Hon. the SPEAKER acquainted the
Houle, that there were two Ballots fixed for to-m6r-
row, and as the Ballot for Elation Committees mull
take precedence of every other bufinefs, he thought
it his duty to give notice, that he would take the
chair at half pee three, and that he would count the
Rode precifely at four o'clock.—Adjourned at t I
o'clock.