Star.
London, England, 1806-05-31 00:00:00

MUTINY MILL.

The SECRETARY at WAR then moved the or.
der of the day for the Honk refoleing ittelf into a
Committee on the ?destiny Bill.
Lord CASTLEREAGH. before the Honk went
into the Committee, wifhcd to put two querliens to
the Righ: Hon. Sect et. y on the fuhjed.of his mile.
tary plan. He glinuFlit t. defirable. that the Houle
Mould be aware of intentit ns tefpaling the bison
ties which he propoitil to give. He would therefore
afle, whether any, and what bounty was to be given
on ttinlillmcnt at the end of the 1411 C.:yen years, And
what on reinlittasent at the expiration of the feconti
period I Ile alto willed to know, whether he Rill
&Sped to give the half penfion, nn retirement, a!
the ern, of t 4 years, and the full penfion at the end
of 31 years.
Mr. WINDLIAM replied, that the bounties on re-
testament mull, ft. m the very nature of the cafe,
be a matter of future, rather than ef prefent regula-
tion. The meafure, which he had the honour to pro.
pole, was defigned rather fur the permanent fumanrt
and ittereafe nt the at tny, than for a tarot immediate
fupply. In confequence of it, he expeCted to be able
to go a ennfiderable length in reducing the prefent
b unties ; but as to bounties at the end of liven or
14 years. that would be a matter pith:tare regnlatios.
With regard to the penlion on retirement from ler-
vice. he had already mentioned 6d per day, as what
might be gircn at the end of 14 years fervice ; and is.
at the end of a I years. But it was now prompted In
Inhltitnte 4d. per day, in place of 6ti. ;n the former
pie, and that the latter laould remain as heti been
miginally intended.
Mr. PERCIVAL profeffed himfelf anahleperfaily
on commehend the anfwer r,f the Right Honourable
..:etetary. The enquiry merely was, whether

bounties were to be given at the end of different pit. I
rands of fervice, and what kale of proporhn w is r
be obfereed in regnlating thefe bounties?
Mr. WINDEIAIf had no difficulty in raying, that
it was likely bounties on re Inlifitnent would he toms,
I neceffary ; but he could not date the probably
amount of Arch bounties, nor the proportion whici.
they %mild bear to each other. He was not yet aware
what bounty would be neceffary on the fiat eulid
mem, and Pill left inuld he know what might be
requilite on the fecond end third.
Mr. CANNING nbferved, that the import of the
quellion put by his Noble Friend was, whether the
Right Honourable Gentleman had fuch confidence
in the fimerior allurements of his plan, that he looked
to recruiting without a Ix:Linty ; or whether it would
be necethry to have recourfe to the ordinary mode of
bounties ? This quellion lie conceived went to the I
very effence of his plan, and it was of importance
that the Hook fhould know the Right Honourable
Gentleman's intentions on this head
Mr. WINDHAM replied, that he lonia not at
prefent elate what bounty would he given o rue null
enlitiment, nor what proportion would be nbferved in
the bounties at after periods. He did conceive, how-
, ever, that Tome bounty would be necelfary ; for if a
I tummy was given or, the 1::P enlittment, why not,
alto on the fecund and third ? But the amount of
these bounties mutt =airily vary according to the
ciicumllances niche times, and it would be impoffible I
now to fay what bounty might be neceffary feven
nr fourteen years hence. Nothing that might now
be fettled on the limed of bounties could be unalier:
' ably fixed, but mull vary according to the change of
' circumfiances. Bit lie had no hefitation In faring,
that Come bounty might be neceffary to induce tore
enliftment at the end of .he &II and fecund periods.
Mr. O'HAItA thought, that Government &mild
, always have it in their power to regulate and pro.
pardon the bounties, and either to give or withdraw
them. They fhould be proportioned to the period
of fee vice for which every man was inclined to enter,
whether limited or permanent, and thus adapted to
the ,eilhes and inclinations of individuals. He was
prioTeding farther on the fubjeß, when the Speaker
(Poke to coder, obferving, that the only quellion be-
tore the Houle was, whether it Mould refolve itfelf
into a Committee ? The Houle Bien refolved itfelf
into a Committee on the Bill.
Mr. WINDHAM then took occafion to Pate and
explain the alterations propofed to be introduced in•
to the military oath. By it, the fiddler was to engage
to ferve for a period of feven years, and alfo for fetch
additional period as his Majeny might be pleated to
direCt, not exceeding three years Ibis had a refer-
ence to foreign fervice, and alfo the period of war.
But in the case of pence, it was propofed that his ler.
vice (hould dete,mine within the period of fix months
fubfequent to the keen years of his engagement. As
A conliderable number of young men entered the army
before the age of eighteen, and indeed when bale '
more than boys, it was peopled that the period of
the keen yeats engagement was not to be begtm to
be counted, till they art ived at toe age of eighteen.
From that age, though they floold have entitted at
fifteen, they wete to ferve feven years. At the
expiration of his engagement, ii abroad, the foldier
was to be brought home at the expenee of Govern-
ment, and on landing was to be entitled to marching
m met-, to enable film to reach the place of his eolith'
ment. It was alb, pi-roofed, that while the general
eff.lt of the contra& thoutd he teemed, it (hoed he
left open to the Executive Government to vary their
bargains diferetionaliy as they might ke
It was love:Ede to provide In the Bill for all the
pothole cafes of variation that might occur, and,
therefore, mach fhould be left to the difcretion of
Government. This would remove thole übjeftioru
to the Bill, founded on the idea of its being an irre-
vocable regulation, by which the hands of Govern-
ment were for ever bound up. The good faith of
Parliament was only pledged, that whatever con-
trans Should be entered into lhouid be fully obferved.
Such was the general Shape of the Ineaftwe now be-
rme the Hnufe ; and he beqed to call their atten-
tion to the rearm, that might he urged for and I
againtt its Here it was to be confeffed, that the limb
tenon of fervice was a confiderable facrifice made
by the public. Something would be given away for
the putpore of obtaining an objeel of greater impor-
ranee. It had been repeatedly raid, that the experi
ment was hazardous, and he had been often allted,
would you part with men at the very time when their
Cervices were moll required ? To this be could only
fay, that it would not he done without reafon and
without an ohjeft. The diminution might be mallet
in the hope and expeetation of a greater inerenfe:—
This was a principle that regulated the condna of
men in common lite. A man lays out his money fir
the purpole of increafing it ; and fuch fpccialations
were a more frequent cattle of wealth than mere ac-
emulation. This was the general principle on which
the theafure was founded : and be would afk, was
there not a fort of neceffity for having recourfe to
new meafttres, after to many different expedients had
been hied ? The ordinary modes of recruiting had
been found inCtifficient to liipply the demands of the
army, and hence our Referee and Defence Ads, our
inereafed Militia, and our high bounties. He then
took a review of the different modes that had been
faller, upon for increaling the military defence of the
country. At the cornmencensent.ot the war, It was
propofed to increak the Militia to 100,000 own. If
the ordinary modes of recruiting had been•fufficients
would that mealure, fo harfh in hfelf, and produc-
tive of fo melt inconvenience to individuals, have
been adopted I The militias however, ItnOped Short
at ninety dond.ind, and ilb the penalties were railed
from tot. to to.l, the whole meafiire tended to (lethal
recruiting for the regular army. The Army of Re-
love was the next maws adopted, and, had pe-
e ifuly the fame tired. It certainty, produeed w con-
fiderable force, of which the .entintry HI enjoyed
the benefit ; but it was not intendpd as , a. *-
Menem, refouree, and it therefore cone to an end,
after completely wearing .out the prinaiple.of the
ballot. The Additional Force Aft produced ,offsets
equally pernicious to the regelar fervice, and was
attoded by the fame .diffsculties- The authors of
that Negate had pledged themfelves to. bring for-
ward hams plan far the defence of the country,
more deeply tiUM he and his friends had ever done.
They had charged their presleceffors with providing
inadequately lot our military defence, and • on
thefe grounds had forced them .to refigar aid they
then brought forward thc Additional ftace Bill, be-

cats& thir were pledged to fame new Meafure.. It
bad been a curious fubjeft of reproach to Minilters
tram the other tide of she Houk, that they intended
to get on thole fentiments which they had ezpreffed
when out of office. One Right Hon. Gentleman,
(Mr. Yorke) had conjured Minifters to recoiled that
they were the (worn servants of the Crown, and that
wherefore they Mould propofe filch meafures only as
hey could canfeientioufly fupport. From this it
...mold be fair to conclude, that whatever teflimony
•r opinion he and his friends might advance, they
withed them to be confidered as coming from wit-
neffes who were not (worn (a Laugh.) The lan Mi•
uiders were bound to do fomething particular, and
.hey introduced the Additional Force Bill. When
,hj:diwns were urged againft it, it was replied—
. Continue this, or you have nothing This is a
-seafure, if you repeal it your have nothing left."—
tiny, furely, there was fumething before that! There
-tilled the old ordinary mode of recruiting. He
Ihould have thought, that to have removed theAddi-
ional Force Bull, was at molt only taking off the cum-
huts fuperfirtaturre : the foundation was fill left.
It was a plain arithmetical matter. Take away what
was added, and what was there left ? Why, as much
As there was before ; the new mode removed, the
old one remained. There was no Deed to use our
fates, and enter into much reindicting' to decide the
point. He admitted, that the former mode produc-
ed fomething, but not what was espeded, and what
was neceflary, and we were now brought to the situ-
ation in which we found nurtelves. Government
had !nog been deviling means of various kincb, all of
which had been confell:dly inefficient, whether of tem-
porary or of permanent application. He did not de-
Mc to purfue the Additional Force Bill into its gray:

" Nor draw its ratlines from their dread abode,"
but he tuna repeat, and maintain, that it had, in
every important point, complexity and miferably fail.
ed. In &feuding the repeal of that Bill, Gentlemen
thought proper to introuuce chiefly the difcuffinn of
the merits of the prefent meafures, and he fkould be
equally jullified, if he thought proper, in entering
again into the demerits of that Bill—but this he did
nut intend. He had been told by 'a Learned Gen-
tlemen, that he did not onderfland, indeed that he
had not read that Bill. He fhould be fatisfied with
underlianding it, without the trouble of reading it,
as the Honourable Gentleman teemed to be with read-
ing it without undertianding it. The Hun. Member
neither had, nor did now underftand it, if he denied
that it would product mote than nine thoufand men.
It raited about thirteen thoufand men in 9 months.
It ended with an arrear of twenty-fix thoufand men.
It gut wince and worfe. It teemed to have run, a
race with its own cafualtica, and to have 101 l ground.
The farther it got on, the farther it was from its (ax-
ial. It was ruined by limed's, jolt as much as by
failute. It reminded Lim of the words of a Right
Hon. Friend of hir, not then prefent—it was " that
tort of valetadinasy conftitution always ailing and
never well, that will foesetisnes outlive a thoufand
mink ones." The teed it had on the recruiting
of the army had been prettified tufficiently. If it had
got men, it bad on, t them at the expense of morality
and of juftice. It had got them by robbing them ;
nod, by both the modes employed, it had railed fewer
than the old fyflem of recruiting. But perhaps Gem
demen would fay, that it would, I:ft to itfelf, have
done all that was neceffary to be dine for the armi.
If that affection were True, then he fh sold code's his
meafure to be unnecetto y. If we had already a way
that was unobjeftionable, there could be-no neer:day
to ny a new one. That, however, he was convinced
was rot the cafe. In this hate of things what was
Ito he done ? It was not poGible to go back to the old
(Mein, withont time aid and affiltance. Then what
plan might to be tried ? Not a return to expedients
of temporary effeft, not to meafures for the tlaT,i
b 7 cutting up our refoorces for the future. He
I thought that the good feofe of the matter lay in
!a narrow crimp:di. He had no new dircovery to
open, and he Taw nothing of that fort likely io
be prodeced that would be effeSual. The option
left to them by nature was either force or choice.
—in the various tchentes we had already been
trying, we got the advantages that force gave us,
hut loft almnfl all the benefits wiling from the ripe.
ration of choice. Force and choice, indeed, might,
in fame cafe?, mutually maid each other, as in the
cafe of the Navy for innance. Junius had oblerved,
that " the Itimulits of the profs quickens the opera-
tion of the bounty." But in our mode of land fctvice
the cafe was not quite analogous, and would not
equally apply. In the lad, it tota:ia deflroyed the
efleft, by railing a fatal competition, and hydedroy-
ing the bounty. Every body knew the elle& when
the bounty Ware railed to thirty, forty, filly guineas,
or more, by the competition of the various ret-
akes of the Army, Militia, Supplementary Militia,
acc. He law no great good likely to be derived from
the fyftem compollion. Such meafures would he
like drama and cordials. conferring a little momenta-
ry firma& while they injured the health. He war,
therefore, of opinion, that there modes flvtuld nut
he retorted tn, until every other better plan had
been tried and found to fail. VV by not then go at
once to voluntary colitirnent trtake the bar;.;ain
worth takii:g, aud we fhall•have dune a great deal
to render the proleilinn of a I.ldier more eligible.
Krep from rompultion, if pudible. It might be laid,
that the prefent Cott ition of a foblicr was filch, that
! we craild not make it an eli7ibile life to the population
of the country. We certainly could not change the
I population, hut we could change the nature of the
lervice or offer. Yon cannot snake the foldier's life
a lire of freedom, of cafe, or of much profit ; hut yet,
in fpite of all tittle, and many more diradVAlitacs,
men we,e found in all times tagetly aarafled by the
hononraWe conditionarf the foldier ; and therefote
we. Mould give it lush aids and advantages as cc
could, and fur that peirpofe drip it of great difadvan•
tage, that of " entitling for life ;" or, if that phrafe
founded unplettently to tome Gentlemen, he would
fay, " of entitling for an indefinite time, at the op-
tion of the matter under whom they entitled." He
had already ;worded to referve to them the right
of being difeltarged at a limited period, and had
fisted vatiOns realism in its favour. Indeed, re-
cognized as the praflice had been, even in this coon.
try, bethought it almoll unnecelfary again to argue
the ptinniplei The change he propoled was one
which he was convinced would have a thong ten-
dency to render the proleffian of a foldier more cre-
ditable and refpeftable in the eyes of the population.
It went on broad general principles. 'An Honourable

General had given his prefetenee to two armies, ond
for limited, and the other for unlimited fervice. He
could not, however, be convinced by the Honoura-
ble General', ohferiations, though he had defied all
his ingenuity to controvert him. We offer limhecl
Service in time and place, and unlimited ferrite in
both refpeas: but may not Coate fay, we like your
limited time, but nor your limited (pace ? We find,
that foldlers often prefer unlimited fervice, in point
of (pace. Why i 3 this ? Is it bccaufe of the unlit.
mited time ? that is no adistntage &lined by theVd.
Indeed, why Sould they lore it, but from their pre-
dilation for unlimited (pace? There mull, therefore.
be attratlions. What are they? Why, the foldier
drfires to go abroad and to fee the great fettles he
hears fo much of, and to behold the deaths of she
great heroes wkolall in the field of battle. It is the
very ineonvenienee of the limited fpace that often
makes him enter upon the fervice for unlimited (pact
and time. He wants to go abroad and fee there
great things t bat would nut he with to envois borne
again, and finding tome village Defdemona in hid
ltndlmd's daughter, tell her

Of mares •at, sad &fans dire.
Of Yawing said*** by load and Add,
Of bair•bnsdtb Tapes i'fle imminent deadly breia

With what pleacure would the, while handing Mu thi
mug of ale,

With greedy ear drover his nom
While the father, enraptured with his valour,
his tails, and his bravery, might give hint neither
tankard for another Rory.—(Lord kergbier.)-- •
Such wire the defcription of people who chiefly
went into the twiny. But all the motives Teemed
to tionfpire together in favour of limited time and
unlimited (pace Then, why timid we check and
flop their operation by unlimited time, "that bourne
from which no traveller returns I" Let the foldier's
difpofition to roam over the world be cherifled ; but
don't difuturage him by ferviee for life. The tape.
rience of other countries formed a firong argumenq
not to be done easy by attempting to (hew a diffe-
rence in the nature of Europeans merely from a little
difference of locality. Why fbould the uncertainty
of the duration of war eked materially the certain
limitations of rerviee or alai the foldier's charallert
The Honourable General had obferved that this was
not the uniform price in Europe; but he feemed
wholly to that out the late kingdom of France, a
country fo popnlons and fo military. Why thould
it be put out of our view ? That monarchy being
overturned fignified nothing finee the faestrefpetling
it were quite well known. It was the rule of their
ferviee in France to enlifl for limited Arvin, with
the right to claim difeharge during war. The limi-
tation was fir years. lo the year loyft this right of
difcharge was done away, by atoexpref. ordonnance.
which he (toted as a proof of the pre-exi ling cuf-
tom. They fettled a fort of convenient emotion foe
the difcharge of theToldiers. la ;765 the term was
incysafed to eight years, without mention of peace cc
war. Arbitrary Governnienrs were not th he renraina
ed eerily, and it was ton true that the French Got.
vernmeat broke its faith, which he hoped this coun-
try would never do. There were two views ia whichi
this internee was ohjelled to, the one as tending to
hurt the foldier's charafeer, and the other the incr.-
, venieneee attending it. As to inconveniences, no
doubt Tema avoid be found in this, as in many other
I things. It was inconvenient often to pay money. A.
to the Continent, almof all the Auflrian troops were
difcharged at (bort periods. Had net Gentlemen
bevel of a people called the Sail,, who were very
excellent ioldiers in the pay of foreign Princes, end
who were all engaged fur a fbnrt term of years 10-•
But then it was laid, Aye; but tilde are Germano.
or French, or Swifts, and not Et:ghat, and we are
mere theorills. If this be theory, he knew not bow
to avoid it. Theory might be defined, Every con.
eltifion as to praelical effees, nut verified by 'Quid
oiaL" This was the cafe with moll legiatitive area.
lures. He then proceeded to animadvert et the ins
.coafilleney in the conduit of the Gentlemen oppo-
lite, and the *various contradiaiwis in their argu-
' ments, and ptuteeded to thew how groundlefs the ap-
prehenflon was of the difeltarge of the men creating
any greet lois to the army, and entered into Meal,-
tions to prove the abfordiry of objellions of thisfort;
In his plan for ilifeliaiging the men at a limited pe-
riod, he went upon the principle cf giving them up
as a faerifice for obtaining much greater advantage*.
In doing 1., he was only following the improvements
of human life which were progreflively going for ward
as advancing rodeo (hewed us the modes by which
benefits are obtained and fecured. What improve-
ments, on fuch principles, had we made, in arm.
merce and agriculture, which were indeed kept
hack, fonivinies by thrift who could but bring
themfelves to fee their own advantage in a proper
light, and to (hake off their preptlices.h--What
chtlinguifned our merchants and agricelturins
but an enlightened policy ? He did not bend fo
much here to the cpitnuns of officers as on other
points. They had their profeflional feelings, and
they might take alarm at the idea of holing a fine
company of Grenadiers, every man fire tees tear
inches high. Why, it mull hen very unpleafant thing
to a planter to fee his fine flourifhing trees cut down
by the rude Broke of the axe. He did not know .much
of ag:iculture, but in what little he did, lie had feta
fomething of turnip hurbandry in his own conntr,
where it had been hitherto mottly confined, notwith-
flanding its advantages, (imply becenti people could
not be prevailed upon to make a neeeffaty faenfice.
'l'he prefent was the only meafine that teemed to hit*
to offer a permanent Itipply to the army. Under the
effete of many former ones we were now ruffling.
In difi offing the quell ion, he trolled, the Houle would
attend rather to the general friends of the menfure
than to its avowed enemies. He then (hewed, in the
cafe of the Eall Indi.t Company, how well the fallen
had thriven there, which was 'lopped only hee.mfe it
interfered with the regular army at home. He dwelt
upon the prefent vicious means of filling up the ranks
with perfons going into the army through difcrecli.
table 6(lli:shies, intoxication, and from pi ifims. wish
boys, &c. etc. by ways utterly unfit to be nulled to.
Thus a better elafs was abfolutely almoli kert nut of
the.army. He teprefented the beneficial aces of a
general impreffion made on the minds of the people.
of the improved &cation and condition• of` she fol.
diery : not of this or that private, bat of thenrmy•ot
large. He contended that the partiality of the objec-
tions (heisted their in.fficieney, and fir Ifeffed that Ito
(tumid he glad to be able to commumente to the nano
Come civil qualifications ; Inch, for induce, as tie

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*43.

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franchife in conoties, to unite them to, and
Rive them a. lake in, the Country. The Right Hon.
Gentlemen °included a very argumentative fpecch,
which lotted snore than two luaus, with various other

_
obfavistiona.
Sits JAMES PULTENEY thought that the temp.
titian rimd to the public of limited Seeks. would
rot materially promote the recruiting for the army.
The Right Hon. Gentleman bad talked much about
youthful ardour, and the love of milit sly fame, but he
thought thefe were not the motives which had an
ertenfive influence; the bounty was the attranion to
which the fupply for the fervioe was molt indebted.
lie confidered limitation of time, but not of (pace,
aright be applied to the (mond battalion), and this
was the nn.v way in which the concefflon 'mild be
;attended with any advantage. He did not admit that
!he European armies were all under the limitation
!green:ed. The Pruffians were, but the Ruffian.
were not ; and whatever their conditions of fervice,
eiretring the Swift foldiere. the troops of no nation
nn the Cominent could be difcharged daring war. In
Vrance. the year previous to the Revolution, it was
by lux ordonnanc• 'naked, that no man in her armies
Mould obtain his difeharge during war. The all
French ordonnance on this fubje& was aliened to the
"enlifting recruits for eight years, but it was not
chargeable with the abfurdity of the prefent people
rion—of rejeningencs who offered themfrives for per-
petual (mice. During the (even years' war, the
French were defeated is every direaioo. and their
ewisforrones were in a great degree to be attributed
to this limitation. After a man had endured the
hardflrips and perils of actual (mice, it was naturally
to be expelled, that he would retire from theft dilE•
tulties and dangers to cafe and retirement,.if be had
the option of clang fn ; in the sort interval thole mi-
litary habits wonld not be fn completely formed, on
which the Right Hon. Gentleman had dilated with
pa muds confidence. The Hon. Baronet proceeded
to flew the dillinnions under which he had noticed
limited fervice in his own poldication.and concluded
with afferfing the impolicy of it under the precept
4:immune/tees of the country.
Mr. YORKE differed extremely from the Right
lion. Gentleman on the Ibhjea of his military projet,
and wifhed that before filch a rneafure was adopted.
the opinions of men of talents and experience in the
army th,,uld be taken. The plan was a mere matter
of theory, unfupported by pnetiec ; and yet on this
(peculation the Committee were called upon to in-
troduce
a clan& into the Mutiny Bill which might be
attended with the moil ferious mischief. He hoped
that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have made a
beneficial ufe of the long interval (ince his Icheme
was fiat pet-spored. by colitaing the bell opinions on
*c Sheen. Indeed he (Mr. Yorke) had beard with
inutile, that forte military men of high rank had
very recently communicated their fentiments in dime
eqophfition to what was now propeed. But what-
ever might be the judgment of others, he entered his
prate/ again?! the meafttre ; and whatever ?Infantry
the Right Hon. Gentleman might employ in athifion
to so 'specifics in a former debate, he (\tr. Yorke)
declared his feelings se basally and cankientionfly
as the (worn fervama of the Crown. Anson; the ob-
jeaions he had to nate, one was on confhtutiowal
grounds, and. that was, that the natafure ihoulabe
*legated on the Mutiny Bill. It was not at all DC
ceffare, that in a pica of this kind the Legiaa-
ture Mould interpose r the Royal Prerogative was
perfectly competent to the purport. Was not the
pledge of his Majefty a full and fufficient feent ley to the
foldier ? itenl if it were to, why interfere with the le-
Isitimate ezercife of the Kingly authority ? Suppofing
is Majelty Ibould difapprove of this Itheaw, how
could he give his negative to the Mutiny Bill, which
was connened improperly with it ? He did not ta-
ped, that even loch a Constitutional objenion would
be fufficient to change the views of Ministers : he
bad feta too much of their difpolition to adopt crude
plans, and of their tenacity and obHinacy in adhering
to them, when they fat on a different fide of the
Honfe, to weft that any thing he could fay would
vary their intentions ; from others who were snore
mineable, he Ibould have hoped at lean, that a awe.
fare for which there was confeffedly no immediate
neettifity, and which was remotely profpeetive, would
not be pertinacioufly defended. or precipitately adv.,
led. To the army and navy we were to look for pro.
talion in theft perilous limes. The military fyltem
had been found hitherto adequate to all our purports
—it was therefore fomething work than folly to ha-'
seed this innovation. He had heard no fans, and
little calculation ; and it was too much for Mini/en
to expen, that their mere affertions of the policy of
the (theme were t.) fupply the place of all former ex-
perienee. What was the (fate of the army when
this great alteration was deigned ? The Britilh army
he would venture to fay, had never been in a higher
Pate of difcipline. Exclufire of tile artillery, the fit
reign and local forces, And the militia, it conli:led of
sco,Ooo men, of which only about fourteen il fif-
teen thoufand were for limited fervice. On the a6oh
June. 18og,there were wanting to compkte tliearmy
46,806 men ; and to fupply thefe, there were the
Additional Force Bill, and the other fuhfidiaty mea.
lures, which hat! been fo far fucceLtul, that he under-
Resod, from the confeffion of NE:tillers themfclves, the
deficiency was row only twenty thottiand. Then
ifie cafualtieson an average of 1803, tnoa, and tBos.
la Were t 6.746. and dedudtir.g the foreign nod local
th rtes, one twelfth ofthe whole, or thirteen thoufand.
ll'hatever plan was propoled, it Sould be competent
to meet this deficit of twenty thoufand, and thirteen
thoufand for the eafualties, or in the total thirty.three
thoufatisltnen. There were two periods in the modern
hilloty rf this country, in which limited ferrite had
been attempted; the one was Lord Bolinghrt.ke's. the
other in Lord North's Adminifhation,and the turner
De reckoned among the worn times of our annal..—
Since the time of Wiiliam 111. with thole exceptions,
the enlifting had always been for unlimited fervice.
It had not been comely Paid that the service was
during life : it was confidered, that atter twenty four
Cents every man was entitled to his difcharge, al-
though it could not be thinly claimed as a right. be.
caul" the engagement was fir a term commenforate
with the withe. of the Sovereign, under the parlia-
mentary searinions applicable to the cafe. It was
in the ltth of Anne, that a claufe was 'dated in the
' Nit:Kitty Bill, limiting the fervice to three years, and
r.rquiting of the foldier three months notice if he in-
tellied to retire. So far the refcniblance was pre•
faired with the peek= mature ; but it was not at.
r Ittstpted to rint flat as osperlateat in the time of

,: ~i

wan ; it was immediately startle pia" Of Utrecht.
In another refpea alto it varied : it was extended to
the exiaing army. This pitied maid maintain:its
ground only two years ; for as fonts as the Houle ofl
Hanover focceeded, and the Whig Minifters were
reflored, the chafe was rejected ss dangernns and
im-
p• The intention of Bolingbroke was to defeat
the fneceffiun of the Hoofs of Hanover ; and, by
leaving the country without the oroteition of that
annv which fought noder William and the Duke
of Marlborough, to introduce the Pretender to the
Throne. The new: inflame of limited fervice was
in the American war. All the regiments were
to recruit for three years. or during the Rebel-
lion ; but that regulation did not. like the prefent,
emend to the Artillery and the Cavalry.—That
!yam prevailed from 1775 to the end of the war :
in 1779 it was made a fubaantive elaufe in
-the
All ; before that time it was under the authority of
the King only. So many pans of ill's new feheme
teemed to be imitated from Lord North's projea, that
it would be material to enquire into the fitted' of
the latter. Ti.e ordinary recruiting, en the ay-rage
at that time, fupplied 11,780 men ' • the fame, with
the admit) on to unlimited from limited fervice,
19,3 to; the fame, for limited fervice. 28,470. This
was the firft period to which he would beg the atten-
tion of the Committee. The fecond was the three
fir(l years of the laa war, when men were railed for
unlimited fervice. and rank was given for recruits ;
which tall expedient he did not approve The ave-
rage railed at that time was 35,95; men per annum.
puling the three Ora years of the American war, the
number was only 11,63: per annum. In this talcs,.
lation, formed from papers on the table, hr had been
obliged to make an allowance for the trans ter of men
from one regiment to another who appeared as new
recruits, for which he had in the one cafe allowed
one fifth, in the other one-fifth of the whole. He
would now advance to the third period, when the
plan of general recruiting was adopted. as by
the Bills for the Army of Referee awl the Addi-
tional Force. By thefe expedients more than sox=
men had been ntifed. Such was the itlCZelik which
was now to be refignzd for there fanciful thenrie. !
He had fisted the dzficiencies at 20.000, the c-...
ties at 13e000 ; but was this number only to be
provided againll ? The time was come when it might
be expelled that our army was to encounter an ene•
my front to Runt, and, in addition to the ordinary,
we might expel ext. &ordinary cafualties. Would
thefe new.fangled lchemes antwer fuch demands ? Al-
though he admired, as much as any man, the amnfing
talents of the Right Hon. Gentleman, ye:, on filch a
grave occafion. tat Houle looked more anxioullr
falls than for jolts ; they were unwilling to be dazzled
when they ought to be Wormed. There was an
(tying, which the Right Hon. Gentleman would do
well to recoiled, W,: thonld be witty and wife;"
he was always witty, but he did not uniformly con-
ned the other quality, which was more important...-
To r to the American war. What did this fa
tomtit, fyllem then produce ? It wa. !loaned from
1773 to 1785, and fupplied annually tx.xon
men. The calculations were not hypothetical. they
were founded on papers which had been nn the table
of the Haute. In 1778, t 77g, and 1783, the calve,-
ties were *7,865. With all the efforts ih it could he
made to regain what was celled the brighteli jewel in
the Britilh Crown, only 19.161 men were mired ;
and deduding the calualties, there only remained
in favour of the army 1296 men. Wit:,lliii pro-
ceeding further, from this Ilion comparative view,
would not every difcreet Miniller pante, before he
repeated fo hazard su, an experiment In the year
1779• the deficiency was 25,279 infantry, and the
whole ellabliatment t t t,oco. In 1782, the former
Vas 26,504, and the latter it 73,•.-co. the whole com•
plement now wanted is one-fifth part, whereas in the
American War it was one fourth, fo that under the
pretended advantages of the limited fervice, under
Lord North's adminiaration, one quarter of the army 1
was deficient. At the termination of the fcheme for
limited fervice, the army wits lipirt to the number of
30,000 men, and this deficit was one of the ;talons
affigned for the acceleration of the peace. But this
was not all—the Imited let vice occ rfioned a mutiny
in the army, which expofed the country to the molt
ferious dangers ; the expectation of being retested
from military duty occafioned difenntents, and moil
Gentlemen would know, at leaf, as a matter of hit-
tory. that at Pialfroonth a fpirit of this delituaive
kind prevailed in the 77th regiment, and that im-
portant gatrifon was placed in the Mail alarming fi-
'nation. Such was the flare of the Army at the
eonelution of the Ametican war. The navy and the
finances were in the fame deplorable condition ; yet
fuch was the peritsd (torn which !simians had feted-
ed their model. The next contideration was the po.
tithe entharraffritent which would entire from the
measure. One great evil would be, diet difcipline
would be relaxed. Such was the ilate of the Militia
when the Service was for three years. In 1731, a
falutary change took place, and it was immediately
found, that the men attended to the duties of their
prole ffion. The matte:al inconvenience, in regard to
the Col-nial fervice, there had been tl, endeavour
to remove. He was in hopes, after the Right Hon.
Gentleman had taken fo much time tor contidera-
i lion, that he would have come forward with fome
plan to obviate this difficulty. Could Minitters le.
I tinnily mean to precipitate this meafure. without pro
tiding for this important part of the fynem. The
army infthe Cat Indies prefented another oblli uaion.
By true t line the men had ATI li iytd. and had beer leamcd
to the climate, and prepared to face the enemy, to
eonfiderable a portion of their time would be expired,
that they could be of very little ufe to the feu
vice. He timid think it a great dereliaion of his
duty if he did not (late there oiler minions to theCrim-
mittee, and he hoped the Ritiht Honnorable Gentle.
man would have b:en in his place to have attend.
ed to them.
Mr. Secretary FOX.—" He is now preen,, al•
though he has eicaped the notice of the Right Hon.'
Gentleman."

Mr. YORKE thanked the Right Hnn. Cent!eman
and then continued. H tving attended to 'he poAr ve
end:tenement. he would near look to the probable
danger. It was clear that t 7,h would not be di!
charged annually. but ifs or 6000 men were to avail
tkcanfelves of their privilege, it would be A very le-
Fiona lois. It was faid that a great mineber would
enliß again. But were they to legitlite upon tbefe
conjetlitres and fuppolitious. in a matter uffei, ng the
ircurity and independence of the Ernirire

• •
s •
minuets fiances might &Coning, tie ranking... A& t
We Were thus refigning our veteran tennis'. Of this
kiik'cl would be a mortality in the Weft colic,. This
nieifure was not expelled to operate for two or three
years, and then it was raid it would be a permanent
improvement. lull at the time when the Right Hun. I
Gentleman dated its beneficial influence, he ( Mr. i•
Ynrke) expelled its pernitt“us effeßs. Nothing NC-
Milers had done had infpired him with confidence in ,
their afTertions and opinions, and there, Without Gelb
and experience, were the only foppnrt of this prier!! ; ;
yet he did not nppofe it from any principle of lintii.
lity to them ; he proteßed again& it honetily and
eonfcientioufly, from a defile to fulfil his duty to his
cranium Government knew better than he did, if
any rffenfire operations were intended againtt the
enemy ; he did not, indeed, fee the leaft probability
of filch tfiferprites ; brit, if any hopes of this kind
were indulged, they mrift be utterly fruflrated, by
abandoning the wirer meafures whi. h had been ref ot-
ed to for the annlioration of our military enablifh-
ment. Having raid this much, he had now difAarged
his mind ; he waffled his hands of the meafilre ; and
whatever might be the dangerous cnnfequences of it,
Ministers would be refponfible for ;heir oa n impolicy
and precipitation.
' Colonel CRAUFURD rote, as be raid, principally
for the purport of replying to that part of the fpeech
of the Right Hon. Gentlemen who had jolt fat down,
which regarded colonial fervice. He would admit
that it would always he neceffar y to keep a confider-
able part of the Regular Army in the Eall Indies;
perhaps not tell than a 1,000 men. The wane of that
army he would calculate in the prophrtion of one to
feven, In that, upon the average et feven years. about
300) men would be requilite to make up for the con•
iiimption. Whatever might he the opinions of other
Gentlemen, he could not but confider it as extremely
hard, that, of thole who fought our battles within the
tropics,nne fourth fhnuld be ;Nev.:need from returning
home. According to the prattice which had prevailed
for many years, fro fldievs who went to the EA
Indies had any chance of ever re-visiting their nacre
country. It was not minims! f r regiments to conti•
nue there for twenty years and upwards. If the new
fyflem were ndnpted, this hardship would be removed;
for, though there might be inconvenience in bringing
a regiment home, there world he none in alloying
few men belonging to it to return. As to Ns Well
Indies, thin was ton gloomy a part of the fubjed to
enter upon ; but even there, he would contend, the
inconvenience of the ferrite had been very much ex-
aggerated, as indeed the colonial lervice in general
had been. He world now offer a few words to the
Cntnrnitree with tefueS to the general question. It
was anted, why snake any change, where was the re-
celrty for it ? To this he would anfwer, that the ne•
catty was great and urgent; the glory and fafety of
the State were involved in ir, and Minitieri, in:lead of
having their rue:ewes thwarted, were entitled to the
natinnal grat'!ude for I-rano:trig that change whit
would enable us to hold our rank among the Powers
of Europe. The ordinary means of recruiting were
inadequate to furnifb the neeetrary fopplr; Compar-
ing the Army as it florid in ifios with its amnont in
March 18)5, there was an absolute deereafe in the
Infantry, and of that a very serge proportion was not
applicable to fcrreh'n fervice. It at this time aft year
Gratcrnment had a ch;polable force of 100.000 men,
would Bonaparte have dared to milt the env' and
march sterol. the lihine ? With a inch a force, what
was there to prevent us from landing, taking
burning the thrilla, and b.:earning masters
of that particular part of the country? Ir vas to
make tip for-this lamentable dried, that the prefent
Government was endeavouring to create a difp.nfe
able army. The principle of limited ferrite was not
that innovation that was fappofed. la the two La
miniarations, in which the Noble Lord ( Lord Cas-
T sst) was concerned, it was dittintlly recog-
nized, firft in the Army of Reftrve att. and next in
the Additional Force Bi'l. The unlimited fervice
was one of the chief °Nations to entering into 11-e
army. and the frequency, the fecurity, and, ;Acre
all, the publicity of corporal punishment was another.
So far hum apprehending any t eta r ation of difcipline
from a leis frequent nit a corporal po::i:litnetit, st
was hi: opinion, that the moral chat odet' Of every
regiment would be much improved by it. Thei e was
alfo another objettion to entering into the arrny,whlch
would be in a confiderahie dvgree retrieved by the
plan detailed by his Right Honourable Friend. The
lervice, as it was constituted at prefent, was the
moll arduous, and at the fame time tile worn paid.--
The prepack' penfion would obviate much of this ob-
jetlion, for there were but few Striations in which a
poor man could hope to tit down with a certain in-
come for life after twenty•one years fervice. What a
miferable fyftetn was that of the Noble Lord and his
colleagues, by which the military thength of the
country was tied hand and foot, and we fuffered the
enemy to do every thing in our pretence without pu
nithing trim ; but that, however, was nothing to tire
pui pole. There was a great difference radiated In
the foldkr's charaSkr, by enlisting for feven years or
for the ccminuance of the w ar. In the latter cafe,
he would naturally be attaiorri for peace, the •ery
mutt quality a foldier could poirefs. But that
eaten this mode of enlillment would not produce the
mitehiets the opponents of the principle of limited
service teemed to apprehend, be had only to icier
to the American war, in the progrefs ^f witich no
leis than 7tt,eino men had entitled only for tire time
it Swath' continue, and the moral qualities of the
seventy tegiments into which they had entitled,
were fully equal to thole of any of the resi. I
ments of which the prefent army was compofcd.—
Every one who heard him was acquainted with the
brilliant details of that glorious campaign in Egypt,
in which Britifh gallantry was as confpicuous as in
the proudelt period of our hiOnitla and yet he could
appeal to many officers now in the Houle, whether
conliderable part of that army was not enlisted for
limited fervice ? It had been aliened. that the Prac-
tice of enlitling far limited fame did not prevail
among any of the great military powers of Eurnpe.
' Were he not fearful of fatiguing the Houk, be
would read the ordermancer which had been from
time to time publilled in France, and he would
prove from there that from the year 1694 down to
the French revolution. the principle bad been ter:cog-
nized and re/tined to in that country. Indeed tire
great Martial Saxe no ordinary authority upon h
lubjees. had cwt.:fay recommended that no man
fhould be enlisted for some than flee years. It wa,
true, as it had bees Old.' WC4 On the Other fitter that

. .
Wiles ditietal Wathirrgt tut trAt the cimmand -f he
American army the period of fervice was only for a
year, but it was n. I to ibar, Ilona a, it wan, that
he attributed its want of difcipline, but to the no-
tins, of equality that it had imbibed; notions, :era
haps, infeparable from the caufe for which thee
were contending. It was there notions which made
t4e men difribedient to their office's, and not the
limited fervice Tn thn(e who apor,liend,d t 0..• r
from difcbarging the men in cafe of inept n, he
Would obferve, that in that event not a fine( man
w nl ' be difcharged. So far from i , hi. .slai tv
weld to entitled to call for the fel vices of. ye., aria
fn the longelnm capable of hearing arms. The Right
Hon. Gentlemen appeared to rely rr itch up, as the
mutiny which broke out about the end of the An eel-
can war in a regiment enlisted for limited ferv'ee--.
but that mutiny, he would crnread, wa• ed
by a grofs and flagrant breach of firth in the G vet n-
menr. See the fah of the cafe. The min %tie en-
lifted doting the war. Preliminaries nt peace had
been signed, and yet, in the interval between theie
and the ratification of peace, the regiment received
orders to embark for the Eall Indies. How was it
pc flible for men, far circumflanced, to receive the be-
nefit of the terms upon which they tntered? He would
maintain that it was Eder for us to Mimi:lnce slits fyl-
tem of I:mi:ed service than any other pi.wer in En-
rope. Whenever we make war it is by detachments,
the great body of our force can only meet the enemy
in a coafltel upon cur own &ire, ; and in the event
of an invalion, we have as complete a nOlitai y con-
fcription as any power in. Europe. With refpeet
to the Volunteers, be would even admit tl'at a force
of that defcriprion, overmatched as we are in ovu-
lation, might be very ufeful and necefftry ( carr:et
of hear, lea', from the oppAe Imam) A great ads' in-
tage to the etablithment of limited ft rvice would he.
that the three or four thotifind men who might be
annually difcharged, would not he 1011, they might
be converted into drill ferjeants or excellent recruit-
ere. Gentlemen fay, they fee no prefent advantages
likely to refult from the fyltem, he could perceive
miny. At the fame time, he would admit it had it:
inn inesniences alto ; and if his Right Hon. iend had
ever f:id it had none, he had done hunfelf wrong.—
Saaprofing the war was to Lift for ten years, not a
tingle man would be difcharged is confeeptence cf
the meaftsre. Ent one of its greatest advantages,
perhaps, would be that it would greatly dimiltiflt
the praflice of deletion. When that monflrous
evil was correlled, men would gradually become
reennciled to the fers ice, and have Ida ohjeaions
en en" 1 after their term was expired. It would
alto have this immediate elate when a man.
whole time was nearly expiring, knew that he
was to be detained fur three years more, he would
have little hefitation in accepting the bounty, and
enlihling for the [mond period of feral years. He
could not help alluding to a former debate, fr far as
to observe noon the impropti,:ty of the language
which was then nfed by a Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Cannily:), who had reprefented the at ms as
di:r4:l.fied with the proposed fyllem. He could ap-
peal to many officers who had heard him. whether
any fnet ditratisfaflion exilic!? Much as that Right
Hon. Gentleman was diipided to ridicule what tie
call,d a pot of beer, any man who knew the gene-
ral feelings which prevailed among I.ldier, mod
know that even to trifling a boon as that would be
received with gratitude. It Was alto in ca ntemplaiion
of Government to give an addition of one twelfth,
and ot one firth of the natal pay to thole who had
completed different periods of lervice, and to dlr
chat ge all thole of the prefent army within a certain
time atter the re toratiun of peace, who fhould have
completed their twenty-one years of fervice. The in-
et with refpel to India he could not
attain help t.bferring were very much exaggerated.
He could not reconcile it to hi: notions of humanity
that men limuld be kept there for life. Now they
can only come home as clippies or invalids. Whereas
under the intended fyfiem, though the regiment con-
tinued abroad, the men would come home as their
periods of fervire expired. He n far arced with
:to Hue, General (Sir James Pulterey) as to approve
4.1 keepiny, tip fecund battalions. The Right Hon.
Gentleman who preceded him in the debate asked,
how are you to make up fir cafualties? He wo.uld
ask, in his tot n, had the late Miniflers, or the Ailini-
nitiration in which the Right Hon. Gentleman was
concerned, made provifion for any fuch emergency ?
But the fad was, that the prefent Government had
made provifion. They intended to eflablifh a re-
lei re of 20C9000 men to fill up the breaches, in cafe
any accalinn lbould arise in which we timid have to
contend with our whole farce. The plan in his opi-
nion was wife, predicable, and fife. It would tend
to give Ilditlity and permanency to our army, and
what was, perhaps, of as much conliquence, to in-
creak ha character. He felt a perfect convidion, that
the fyllem only required a fair trial to obtain the ge-
neral concurrence and approbation.
Sir JAMES PULTENEY thought it nececiary to
cntreet an error itito which the Hon. Gratleman
Teemed to have fallen refpeCing the army which
served in Egypt. The greateß part of that army
coolitted of men who had enlifled fur unlitohed ter•
vice. There was nut above a regiment or two whole
contlitution was otherwife.

Colonel CltA UFURDfai 3, that atoll ofthe soth,
4oth, and Both (frith) regiments were compufed of
teen who had enlifted fur limited fervice, limited as
tu fpace and time only.
General LOFTUS Paid, that he had lifiened with
the grearelt attention to the Right Hon. !lie St:ere:ll.y
f .r the War Department, and that he thought it but
tight. tu gave the plan a fair trial. He originally had
great objeifitons to enlifiments for limited (mice, but
the ciente by which it was propofeel to retain the men
for three years, if it timid be neceffary, after the
espitatinn rf the full period of fervice reconciled him,
in a great degree, to the meatball. His objeclions to
it were greatly diminifhed, if out entirely removed by
. this alterati -.n; and he would, therefore, decline malt.
jig any oppoiition to the el.,* which it was intend-
' eel to introduce.

General NORTON declare./ hirnfeT in favour of
eniiitmcva for limited litr%Pet:. c,4! cry thrt inv4
plarrfrr the guifii9R-
Mr. CANNING then to& and (aid, he emit.' not
allow A lei:alum of loch waft importance to be btu-
ried to a deeition ia that manner. It had been the
con dant pildice of Parliament to proceed with cau-
tion in the conlideration ;of impottact changei, and
not t pree:p tate them m the manner the preleat

0

region appeared likely to be difpuled of. 6uch
evictions 1 ufaally originated in a Corn raittee of
the whole Houle.; but he, believed, that in' all the
..hiflnry of Parliament, there was mtt an inflance of
any meaftere of equal importance being iutrocinced
and dilcutfed for the hell time, upon a elanfe in a
Cummittee upon a bill. The mode in which 'this
meafure was brought forward he difspproved of for
many reafons. it had been combined, as he thought
unneceffisrily, with the Mutiny Bill, and when the
',reticular day was known on whicis that Bill would
expire, if not renewed, it was evident that this mea-
t-tire being In combined mull before that day be milled,
0.4 only through that Honk, but through the finale
of Lords. This was a degree of precipitation with
which he would venture to fry no other meafure of
equal importance was ever hurried through Path.-
mem. This great precipitation was as great an in.
it wati,n on the cullom of Parliament, as Or nice.
fine itfelf was upon the fyllem of our army. Parlia-
ment was thus moll wantonly awl unneeenrilv re•
doted to a fituation the mill painful And diiircatng.
'Where was no neceffity to have combined this mea-
t-me with the Mutiny Bill ;it might l•ave as well
been brought forward in a feparate Bill. Bur what
was the urgent neceffity ? Was there any immediate
call for new meafures, or was the army crumbling
away f The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Winiihito)
had Rated, OA this meafure, in his own opinie,n, st—s
not likely to have any very immediate opei ati:n. If
that was the real Rate of the cafe, he did not know
what apology he could make to the Honk I'm. (tech a
precipitation ; he never knew any good to at ife from
popular affemblies,or Parliamentmeddling much with
the conllitution of the army. He, and t!..4r friends
with whom he had ailed, had always thonoitt
ferently. They did not interfere with the Regular
army, but they bellowed their Attention to that Con.
Aitutional and Parliamentary army (as he might cal:
it) which seas obtained for limited fervice, by a mi-
tigated fort of compulfion, and from which many
recruits were obtained for the Royal Army. So far
from this being an enabling Ratute, or adding-any
thing to the prerogative of the Crown, he conadceed
it a controuling Ratute, and that to loch an extent
as he &mild not hare expedite-I to hays been propelled
by Minißcrs. The Crown had already the urdoubt-
ed prerogative of doing all that was PrOPOrCd to be
done by this Parliamentary meafure. If it had been
left to the Crown, and the meafure had failed, the
retreat would have been eery and graceful, and Par-
liament would not have been compromised ; bur in
the manner it had now been brought forward, Par-
liament would be fo committed that ;he retreat would
appear impoffible. This was his principal objeftion
to the mode, and if he were eked bow it was to be
remedied ? He fhould anfwer, Take back your
meafnre, give us our Mutiny Bill as ufual, and then
if you have any other meafure to propose, introduce
it feparately, and let it be dirculled without precipi
Cation." If he were obliged to difeurs the principle
of the meafure in its prefent Rage, he fhould fay, that
the main argument which was relied on, the tempta-
tion that would be held out to recruiting from the
limitation of fervice, did not carry conviSion to his i

mind Neither did he acquiefce in the opinion, that
a much better dcfcription of recruits would be pro-
cured. It appeared to him, that it was the mats of
the population of the country that ought to be look•
ad ..., so furnifh recruits, and that they would be as
good &Weis who were taken from the plough, as
thofe who were picked up in St. James's-Ikea. It '
appeared to him a mot fanciful thing indeed, to fop.
pole that people would be much better plated to en•
lift for
_general fervice for a limited time, than for ,
home @vice ; and that their parents, roo, were to I
be quite content that their font fhoold be fent for
their improvement to the Well Indies, inttead of
flaying in their own country. -I his better defcription
of men that was fpoken of, put him in mind of a
limy he had heard, when a pram), fpealing of the ,
wind, laid, " We had little wind, but what we bad •
was taik." ILe the experiment ei old have been tried 1
without expence or rifle. he Mould have been glad of
it, but the firft flep of the experiment was, agreeing
to an eflimate of at hail aoo,ocol. additional ex- I
pence. The example which bad been adduced, of
the old Government of France, proved nothing, as
it was confelred, that that Government did not keep
its engagements with the fahlier. The argument then
which was to be drawn from this example would go
the other way, The experiment had failed in
France, and, therefore, was much more likely to fail
in this country, which employed a cnnfiderable part
of its comparatively limited population in the navy
and in manufattories. In t is country • too, where
the experiment bad been tried, on a (mall kale, it
had failed t and this was a very Orange reatin to in-
duce the !Inure to try it at once on a large kale. As
to the example of the Swift, it proved nothing, as
hat was out the mode of their enrolment, for the
ue. nee of •heir nun country. The Right Honour-
abb. Gentleman (Me. lVindli.tm) was, however, very
food • t atm', gy and illuaration, when the arguments
fr. 11l I i fh (ailed hirn, He had talked of dthtrues the
p: en:adieu, a, a woodman ibinciOttrees. He, how-
over, far hi, part, did not hippo e the grenadiers
w•..id grow much taller or thicker by fuchan.opera-
tvw, Is. twevet the teem might. Again, lw Was
miy holy pleated nil the aaaiOgy of the drill huf
h..t:donsn lancing. We sushigist and thought thp Drill
FCTlOdiht sought, in like manner, In hoe his haralion.
Op. post hint.iii mind pf a !lot, in La Ftgle Mu, of a
per ion who cut if frisson:4o, anti hiought the leaves
toil) sir the market, lie wa: afraid that, to follow
the anal gy, this ass the way 0,4 Right Honourable
Gentleman a likely in m.atsge hip itornje geld.—
There wman argument uphill tic nicafere.which
w..s to be inand in emu body'{ womb, and which
had been rii firosigly OW pa the prelim °coition,
Oar be mull complkips re say *Govetruneht, who
would butt) a quellhm to die &dila by vote, Wiltia
Ott attempting any Wise: to .lacti animportant t.t,
leftion. What he alluded to was, the great inconve-
nience that (Air c-lotsiat fervice would throw io the
way of the ct•nopletc execiitior ,flitch a plan. After
a variety
exprefTiog a with theat'the clank thould beamendeel,
by en ending the retake aTa aye to the c9nclution of
the elsen mining %.r.. He profefied a with generally
that inflead • I the terms of h :vice being (even years, it
&mold laillei he a 1, or fornething very near that ',A m,
Mu. Secretary FOX role about one O'clock. and
(poke an hour arid a half.—He ftid, it was linguler
shar she Right Ilonourable Gentleman (Mr. CAM 1
it'utg) 1110410 have complained of delay co the part of .

I/ millers in bringing this meatitre forward, put*u•
:ally when the Right Hoonurabl: Co:oda:Ilan bin:dell
urged the pollponement of it tin hf nday next, but
not fatisfied with charging them v. ith delay, be alio
accufed them of precipitancy n lieu they had (ohmic-
led it to the Houk. The Right Hon Gentleman
had esprelTed his diflike to the dif:rtflion of initial,'
topics in the Floufe of Commons, bccaufc it was ge-
nerally attended with bad confcquences in popular
afTemblies ; but did he forget that it was the curious to
pals mutiny bills every year in this Houfe, which con
trouled the whole army, and lithjaled it to the autho-
thority of Parliament ? It was the gonaitution of this
country that the army Ibutald he effentially under its
controul, and not wholly under the influence of the
Crown. The Right Hrn.Gentleman laid, that we had
been meddling, not with the King's army. but with
that of Parliament ; and here then was a Orange dill
tinBion, foe he confldered the unlimited force, the
Royal. and the limited, time Parliamentary at my; but
fuppofing the Right Honourable Gentleman to be
right for a moment in this diainflion, how would he
feel in the application of the hare, which he had
forpor:rd and introduced? If he felt fo much now
for the fate of unlimited force, ar:d charged Nitrate,.
with detlroying what Ire termed the I.arliameatary
army, the argument turned noon himfelf and his
former colleagues ; for they had ufed their whole en-
deavour to promote and advance the army for gene•
cal fervice; all their fyliems of limited ferviee were
calculated to augment the Royal Army. This was
the ',crafted ma it of the Army of Defence, and of

all the rell. The Right Hon. Secretary then conti•
dered the general principle of the fyilem, which, he
contended, was the belt that could be brought for-
ward. Having at great length calved into the mili-
tary view of the fubjea, he alto dwelt for a confider.
able time en the great political advantages which the
! ellablifbrnent of a large dilpotable force in this country
would produce to Europe. The Right Hon. Sectetary
declated,that he withed for the rettoration of peace
upon any terms contigent with the honour of the court-
. try ; not by giving up our connations with tile Aellige-
tent Powers. That objeEt, however; is not tri
tained eafily. We were placed, not in an unfortunate,
but an ungraci-tusfituation,a lituaticin which no fplendid
villories or gallant atchievements could eafily remedy.
It mug he alone obtained by taking long views—by
looking to dillant Felines—by gaining a different fort
r.f army, With refpeet to the army, he 4,ertained
the matt fanguine hopes that it would be placed,
by the propofed alteration in its fyllem, ppnn the
mutt refpeEtable footing. The prefent uppofitien, he
obferved, had given a pretty goad (ample of their
public conduit in the part they took with refpee tb
the appointment of my Lord Ellenborough to a feat
in the Cabinet. On that occali 111 l , and op t.e Relent
it had been infinuated, that Minigets viere•aCting
againß the opinions of pet funs of the highett anthott-
ty, that it was neceflary they lh.,nld not lute any po-
pularity which they might have, by refuting to take
thefe opinions into cenfideratioo. Undoubtedly,
laid Mr. For, we may become unpopular uith fome
perthns for not taking thole opinions. which, though
I may be ready to admit arc retpeCtable, yet I may
not be inclined to think ate of the higheft authority.
But, Sir, let us recollect that it is our duty,.as
Majefly's fervants, not to ternpotize with popular
opinions. We know that there is nothing fo eilry as
to attend one day to the opinion of one let of per-
font, and another day to another, Ca at length ae
(hall be in the fituation recorded by one.of the Greek
Poets, who, in defcribing a pet fon id...riding beiweeD
the roads which led to virtue and vice, at length was
'reduced to prefer the lacer. 11 we do r ur,cluty to
the country we (hall not follow any foci, tole, becau4
at every Itep we take we Mall cerminly rine our,
polarity. We mug endeavtior. by pertettering in
what appcais to us the right reach, to tenure the
country to its antient fyileot. Ile that lwervcs from
that road eels lino a political coward. it kr Ziff{
. up his own opinion he deceits his ditty- us s. (worn
fervant of the King, to whom he is bound to girt the
bait advice within his power. He is nut true 16 the
I people, faithful in his difchargc of Lis duty
.as •
j Member of Parliament, nor will his efforts ci.her re?
doutd to his own honour, or• conduce to the general
good.
Mr. YORKE fhortly explained. .
Mr. PERCIVAL fpoke aoaing the claufr, and en•
tered into a calculation to thew, that, rejth the in
creafe of pay, the annuity ir hr granted at the end of
al years fervice, Ike. a man who it.,w coil the country ,
t 6 gftioras, would, under ilic priTtfed. hlttni, in-
volve the country in au exile:lce of
The roueflion being loudly called for, a dieifion
' took place upon the motion- f.r leaviog act certain
words in the chute, for the purptta of inwoducing
Mr. ‘Vindhurn's new claufe ; whtit the,. appeared—
For the quellion, Ayes, a.-,4—Not;s, oaf.—Majority,
129.—The motion then king puts 1,11,at the claufe be
read a firfl time— •
VlfeaunteASTLEß EACH moved that de CA; lemon do report
progrcfs, end at leave to fit again, it being too late au h0...r tar
the introdudllon of a new qualon.•
Mr. YQX cOncludtd, that this could :ewer no other purnefe
but that of delay, and that the principle attic chide now reopohd
had been taken i, •o confideratlon in the preceling dircurfwn.
Vikount CASTLERFAOH frplicd, that the 'elaufe now pro
pored was didtinet from the deur.: to be lett La., and requutd a
dlittnel fubitantive
Mr. PLR CI VAL and Mr. CANNING fupported the argument
&NlG:wont Caltkreagh
Mr. FOX kpeatcd, Chet It would only anfwet the purpore of
delay.
Mr. YORKE raid, quertlons of much Ids invariance had been
the fubjedt of an adjourned debate; and all tbat was reiiuhld was
an opportunity to diktats the dide.
' Lord OE BIAQVIERA. confidered the relent eonverfulun a
waft. a time. _

Viccount FIOWICK Niel, that the proper:l was Ilel• and extra-
ordinary, and put it to the flour., whether, if daisy were not dos
objsel.. it was not proper in proceed to the nest gage, and r.f.ive
an. tartber debate upon tl,e clank for a 'wore opponuouy
CANNINQ again fpokc in favour or the snake for re.
parting prYgrOUns.
Sir W. efNG falel,dast when Memo, ion was made for haw.
log our tb• wifids, the Hook we. aware of the words ill he WWI
tined, and that the principle of coolie was already difetiff:d.
Mr. 1.1.11,C1VA (Add k via‘a or w qucitlgt, Sod required anew
difeufs . .

Ale N'tN!MAM contended, that the venni* to he left out, and
ilk won!' to h InbflitutaJ, had been Itbatedtogetha.

thane I.A%VitENCE (poke on the lime fide.
Mr BRAGGESATIILIRET, Mr. kOSE,and Vikovnt CAS.
TuraAcli argued for a difruilion of the chafe. A divifoi
then tools place on the motion that the chairman do report pro.
grab and elk leave to fit ag:.ini which was negatived upon a ',Ms-
Lon. Ayes 14--1 ot.
The qualms tiaras being put, that the chore be read a Era
It we. tarried upon a tits Rion, ay. • i tS4-11UC. 00.
Mr PERCIVAL then mow, J, that the Chairman do now
leave the Chair, which was iegatirs.d, uyou a &wham: Ayes 64
I.lj.

w'**''''l* dais ha Sad &emu!
Mr. YOlt!:E ori It, and (lid ha lhould move that the
Chs rman tboutd report progre.s—(4../tr, arm !
Pit% wein'esrAlS (aid, that this was a won vexatious pro
reeding on the part of the Gentlemen opporke.
Mr. YGRKR moved, that the Chairman do now leave the
( hair. This induced a long camverfation between nearly the Cane
Members.

The SPEAKER gave It as his opinion that this aloha might
hr revated frequently In the courfe of ,the night, beettuk, though
It might not be At at a pracedlng moment, it alight be fit at a
fuhfeguent oste.
Mr. WILLIAM SMITH fabi, be arra witnefal facia a pro-
ceeding.

Mr. FOX Wetted, that =len the Had* Mal Naar Come
nanny Tualatin, a few gentlemen, by Wing lip pram mule,
niiyht at any time iirfeat and olaftrad en iiiielisiwelfb

The Houk then divided on the motion, that the Chairman do
now leave the chair, which was negatived. Ayes sa —Noes /03.

It win then moved, Oat an eAufe be read a towel thus, and a
debate enfued.

The SPFAKEIt fold, that the Houk eras In a very amdairabla
Rate, and recommended thu the clank ihnuld be rail a Bated
time, and that the debate upon the wind* dour' take piars'arlitaa
the motion a] ould come to be aide, that the eke& di Mod part
of the BilL
Yileount CASTtEILEAGH and Mr. STUAGRS BOURNE
contended fur an opportunity of debating the principle La Clop pre•
fent ibge.

Mr. WM. SMITH and doe CHANCELLOR oldie FXCH!.
quER fpnkc agalnft It.
Many ineffedival efforts were nude to comprondfe the !wend's.
Mr. SHER IDAN at length raid, that as be law the fientlenten
were dcterrniped not to give np any point, be would recommend
It to twenty or thirty of his friends In go home, Deep for a tew
hours, and get their !muralist after which they might comeback
(reel, and relieve their wearied companions.

This fperch Was bailed with load acclamations; but thortly after
on the motion of Mr. WILBRAHAM BOOTLE. who 'Wed.
that, though the mode ia width the Houle was proceeding might
be entertaining to tome at the Members, yet it thould act be laid
before the public ; the Mangers were ordered to withdraw.

After about an hour's farther Debate, we underftand, on the
russet inn of the Speaker, it was asrecd that an 4niendment Oloulsi
he prepared. pro forma, on Monday, fo as to permit of a further
diced:lon on the prlndple of the there.

The Chairman warn then permitted to leave the Chair. when be
repnrted progreG. and obtaiseii leave to it again.—Adjunined at
Halt pall Sla ulauck Oda mooning) =di Monday.

.ONDON.

SATURDAY, MAY 3i.
TRICE OF STOCKS THIS TAY ATONE O'CLOCK.
CanNs, for opening, 6t}-.-Oinnium 24.

The Houfe of Commons did not rife till half paR
fie o'clock this morning. At three o'clock a divifion
took ;dace upon the claufc propofed by Mr. Wino'.
HAM to Ise introduced into the Mutiny Bill, and the
quenion being carried, it was generally cuisp, that
the Houfe had adjournid, and all the Riangers, et-
cept two or three, went away ; but on the Gallery
being again opened it was found the Houfe had. again
got into a warm debate, the Minitler wifbing to have
the claufe read a fecond time, and the oppofition to
put it off. No lets than feven divilions took place,,
four of which were upon a repetition of the motion;
" thaftke Chairman do now leave the chair r • ,
4 • 41.mnsam;m • •

The rectal of Air Grottos Beau), boa been filially
decided. His blayssres I,varrant 'leder thE Ajo
manual has been iffued for this porri:e, agfeeably to
die Reflridive Aet of tn./ ; and the Earl of Lao.
naaohLS will, in •confequcnce, immediately proceed to
India, to afforne the important office of Governor
Geral. . .• • •

We mentioned yenerePy the receipt of American
Papers to the 210 tilt. We fubjoin (ome farther cx•
tt AO. from them • , •

n.
1411.ADFLPHIA, APRIL IR.--On Tactility the 15th
lin(t. the Speaker of the }lncite cif Reprefentatirrethtid
before the Hnufe the following Letter from the Se-
t:lieu, yof the Treirfury • .

. -Tit/MIT DEPAITMINT, APItIL 15, dlolA.

" In adorer to the requeSt contained In the Raolution of the
Houle of Reprcfentati•es of the • tit ind. I have the honour ref.
poaftilly to Rate, that no application its been made to draw mo-
il pay horn the Treafury for the purchaft of the Florida,. before au
appropriation made by the law for that purpofe. The eircum-
, Rance, wad. may have produced an itnprefaon that Such an appit-
cation lit been made being uneonnedlcd with any matter apper-
taining to the osce of Sect etary of the Treafury, ar.: not prtfumed
to come within: the fenpe of the information required from this
department by the Haar. (Signed) A. GALLATIN.".
'the Senate the United 3iarea have confented to
and adrifed, the'rAtitication of the Tripolitan Treaty.
The votes were—Ayes :2—tines

On Tirefday, the istb inn; the Senate pared the
Bill from the Houk of. Reprefentatives, prohibit.
ing the importation of el..rain Brit;lir goodsostithout
amendment—Ayes 19..—Noes g. This Bill now Wants
only the fignatme of the Prefident to become a law.
A letter from Congreft mentions, that Congrefe
Kill not adjourn until Monday next.

Li(ASADA IKON Tilt PIetIDINT TO TIM SINATt AND DODSE