Star.
London, England, 1823-05-01 00:00:00

alistlertictillight
, and , who
war aphid. nee they
lieerity of thetiatioo
'Government-report:
let ifwar was objecs
it less so in_policy. fhe
-veggie unexample
she had begun to recover
that struggle had imposed.
to be chosen to engage in
another war—a wai which was not called for by any
consideration affecting British interest or honour, but
to maintain and defend abstract theories? It had
been said that this war would not be of the same
length or expense as the former, and that nothing
would be necessary but to assist Spain with our ships.
But what was the danger with which Spain was now
threatened ? It was by an army that.they were now'
threatened ; and could that danger be averted by
sending them a fleet? Never had a measure been pro-
posed less adequate to the end proposed. By the as-
sistance of a fleet they might blockade every port in
France; but unless that fleet were also used to trans-
port an army, and provisions for that army, the ex-
pedition would merely display •the ostentation of
parade, and the money expended on its equipment
would be entirely thrown away. By such conduct
England would expose herself to the derision of
France. But it might be said that we might assist
Spain with money. Money might certainly be em-
ployed in organising regular armies; but those armies
would be dispersed, and the hopes of Spain be lost
with them. It was not by regular armies, or in
pitched battles, that Spain could expect to repulse
France. It was to that irregular mode of defence so
clearly pointed out by the nature of the country and
the habits of the people, that Spain must look for
success. It was in that war alone that Spain could
defend herself; and in that war they would require
no money to assist them. But if England took part
at all, it could only be by furnishing a large army ;
and then, from the moment that the first British sol-
dier set his foot in Spain, this country would be made
a p-.;:lcipal in the war. To send an army to Spain
unequal to the force to which it would be exposed,
would tarnish the honour which England had ac-
quired, and the laurels which she bad reaped in for-
mer contests. By the line of conduct which England
had pursued, her resources were kept unimpaired for
any future emergency, io which British interest or
honour might require them to engage in war. The
• Nobly Lord concluded by supporting the amendment.
COlonel DAVIES said, that as far as his own feel-
ings were concerned, it the debate of t:•at night were
to decide the question of peace or war, be should de-
cide for war; but he was aware that individual feel-
ing ought not to prejudice the question. -Hethought
that a manly declaration of the seatittients of the Bri-
tish Government, either at Paris or Verona, ;aright
Save arrested that war in which, ere long, this coun..
.try would be called on to engage. It was scarcely
necessary for him to refer to the Papers in their
hands to prove that in the negociation England has
Constantly leaned to the stronger party against the
beaker. It was impossible that England cotild•long
keep aloof from the war. The honourable Member
Concluded by giving his support to the original Mo-
tion—Cesies of a the Lord Mayor," 6, Sir F. Blake,"
Mr. Horace Twins," and " Question," followed.j
Mr. HORACE TWISS rose, amidst considerable
confusion, to Make some observations, as d,e Hon.
Member stated, in reply to the speech which, had
been delivered by the gallant Golonel.—Mr. wiss
proceeded afterwards in his observation But it was
impossible to collect two consecutive sentences ; he
was understood to reason upon the conduct of the
Hon. Member opposites who condemned the nego.
ciations of Ministers. Ills Majesty's. Ministers were
blamed for having advised an alteration in the Spa.
dish Constitution: yet what had been their real ob-
jtct ? They had endeavoured to effect some com-
promise between two Powers opposed to each other,
and were they therefore guilty of a dereliction of
I duty ? The Hon. Baronet opposite had recommended
the withdrawing of the British Minister from Paris,
and what would that act have produced ? It would
cause great injury to England, and could produce ne
good to Spa; s. If, according to the reasoning of
those Hon. Members, the British Government had a
right to declare war. against France oa its entering,
Spain, did not that right still continue, and would
not that declaration of war be as useful to the
Spaniards new, as it could have hitherto bleu?--_
Yet why did Honourable Members not recommend
it? Because they knew that nine-tenths bf the people,
of England were averse from the toMmencement of
the war. If England was to declare war because,
France had, through the fatuity of her councils, been
guilty. of injustice, when was England to have peace?
Was England to become a political knight errant, ,
ever seeking grounds for righting the
_wrongs com-
mitted by other nations? As to the dangers which
the Honourable and Learned Member for Knares-
box ough saw in the seizure of Spain by the Duke of
Angoulerne, they were mere visions; for bow could
the Honourable and Learned Member think that.the
imbecile Bourbons, as he called them, could wield
the power of two such nations to the injury of Great
Britain? The Honourable Members on the opposite
side appealed now to the state of &gland as capable
of effecting by her resources great changes if she en-
gaged in war; yet no one. could forget that those
very Members bad, not more than a few months ago,
been in the continual habit of deploring the misery
of tire nations—He would not trespass on the atten-
tion of the Howe; and although he had some further
observations to make, he would yield to its wishes.
IThe Hon. aqd Learned Member than at down, and Lord
toßtestoist anit Sir &ands Blake rose at the same time; *then
ides Of" ISt Blak4* Were beitd from all parts of the Houle.]
Sit P. BLAHS then proceeded to state, that now
when liberty was at Stake in Spain, the English na-
tion seemed to cod p.but if he were a Spaniard, he
Should say, that whoever was not With him Wit
against him. The English Government had acted
wrong, in allowing themselves to be duped by 'the
speciousness and address of the French Diplomatists,
who said a great deal to Induce England to believe
' that aggitinditement was not the object of their at-
tack on Spain (hear, hear.)—lf the Spaniards should
now by the good fortune of war beat the French id:
vaders out of their tOuntry, and in their turn Invade
France, would England net interfere its behalf of the
latter country P Sire nettaialy wodld; and shy riot
eth take interfere on behalf of Spain? (heart hear.).

I entleman wish* fzit-aeutrality i
,tit all tls,e Mioisterial -6Mlier,S,
Atralitfr-tivict nesseralitip-;-
' *ghat+ ~ Tes,", ,gap-.
tit ide we ate to hate
neutrM bonnets *in be:
Icrs, when advertising
y the Right Han. Gen-
tleman'—(Cheeps, erati loud Laughter). Btis neutrality
is no favourite with the ladies—(Reilereted bursts of
Laughter); for what is the use of it—what will be
effected _by it? I will tell the Right Hon. Gentle:
man, in the appropriate words of the Poet-, It ti-es
nothing all the day I' "_(The whole House resounded
tuith Laughter at the concluding observation of the
Honourable Baronet.)
Lord FOLKSTON It rose to express his sentiments on this
Important subject, although he had already detained the Heusi
by his declamation on a former night, so at least said Honour-
able and Right Honourable Gentlemen opposite, who were fond
of quizzing—(li. err, hear).—The Noble Lord then proceeded to
advert to what had been said on the observations made by him
on a former night, and to express his surprise that the Secretary
of State for Foreign -Affairs bad not yet deigned to enlighten the
House. on this subject. He bad, indeed, heard a rumour out of
the House that the Right lion. Gentleman had determined not
to speak till after .an lion. and Learned Friend of his—(llear).
—(Mr. Cameo expressed dissent]—the Right Hon. Gentleman
denied the truth of the rumour ; be was glad to hear it. for he
could not but think it ptrange that the Secretary for Foreign A& '
fairs had so long held back—(Hear, hear). He trusted he should
soon hear all explanation from the Right lion. Gentleman, and
though the Right Hon. Gentleman had on a former night de-
clared he would not truckle to hint—(Order,, order, from Mr.
R. Martin).—lf he was disorderly, he hoped the Hon. hlembee
who called Order so loudly, would explain how he was dis-
orderly—( Hear, hear). t
Mr. MARTIN said he certainly had called the Noble Lord
to order, because he considered the Noble Lord was ecinsutoing
the time of the House in adverting to what had passed lu debate
on a former night.
Lord FOLKSTONE acknowledged that the lion. Gentle-
man was, in strictness, correct. Ile would not trespass further
on the House on this subject, but he hoped other Gentlemen
would also be kept in the like course of order. The Noble Lord
then proceeded to review and condemn the whole course of the
Negotiation; and contended that the national tumour and inte-
rests had been sacrificed-to a desire to preserve peace, which, by
our concessions, was rendered insecure for an instant.
Mr. LITreRTON felt that an apology was necessary from
hint for now trespassing 'on the House, when they were so im-
patient to hear an Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr.lirougham),
who, when these Papers were presented, had pledged httnseltto
make them a ground of serious charge against Ministers—
(Hear, hear),—and be was sure that Honourable and Learned
Gentleman was too liberal and too high-minded to lie by till
after the Right Hon. Gentleman near him (Mr. Canning) had
spoken—(Hear, hear), and then bring forward the charge when
the accused would have no opportunity of answering him—
(Loud cries of Hear). As to the Negotiations, and the deter-
mination of Ministers to preserve peace if possible, he must re-
turn them his most grateful thanks in the name and on the behalf
'of the tradesmen and manufacturers of the country, to whom
peace was so desirable.
Mr. Secretary CANNING then rose to address
the House amidst universal cheering. As soon as the
applause with which the Bight Hon. Gentleman was
received had in some degree subsided, he proceeded
to express his unfeigned sorrow that he should stand
in the way of any lion. Gentleman who was desirous
of addressing the House-on that occasion ; but con-
sidering the length of time which die debate had al-
ready occupied—considering the lateness of the hour,
he felt some apprehensions that he should waste his
own strength, and exhaust the patience of the House,
if he abstained any longer from giving his opinion, in
the discharge of his duty, upon the policy by which
the Government had been guided in the course of ne-
gociations as important to the country; and as full of
difficulty, as any negociations that ever fell under
the management of a fortner-Goestrnment—(iear).
If gratitude could be due to suit -man for an uncon-
scious act of kindness, he heiitated not to declare that
to the Hon. Gentleman, the Mover of the present Ad-
dress, he felt extremely grateful ; for although he
was before generally apprized of the degree of con-
sent and concurrence on the part of Members of that
House with regard to the conduct of the Government
during the late negetiations—although he had re-
ceived too a pretty clear intimation of the general
sense of the country upon that question, yet, m under
the peculiar circumstances with which the Papers
Were laid en the table of that House, he could hOt, in
the ordinary cowrie pursued by (11Overtrtnent, call for
the specific opinion a the House upon those Papers ;
he therefore felt grateful to the Honourable Gentle-
Min for the perfectly manly iirsii% candid manner in
Which be had brought these tiegbeiaticlis ender the
honsideration of the House ; and he hoped that he
Would turn out the instrument, hotetWel-stitrintentional,
bf adding tb the appibbation of the country the re-
Corded opinion of the House Of Cottufionsa(Cheers).
The country stood in ii peculiar iituation with re-
spect to these siegbeitilioni: It was not admitted that
peace or war was the tonseqUence of these tregocia-
lionsy yet peace dr wat' Was the Usual atttrldant upon
begociations. Almost all the Members who had ad-
dressed the Houte ftont the opposite sitie-,he be-
lieved all but two lretionrable exieptions--had ad-'
valued that this was a question Of peace or war. The
denial cattle with a suspicions singularity from those
Who had before been clamorous foi war. Occasions
had been taken to tell the House that cries had been
bused and caps flung Op for arms-,-(A laugh)—but
the cap which had thus been Rung 'down WU not
picked up by either of the Hon. Gentlemen—(Laugh-
ter). Neither would acknowledge—neither would
wear it. He denied that, upon a fair construction of
the negociations, any man could for a moment assert
that it was a question of peace orwar which this
Government had to consider and-to determine. The
negociations were to be judged with.reference to the
war which was to be avoided, and peace to be
obtained—(Hebr,hedr). How, he would ask, was it
possible that these negociations could be discussed,
unless, iu the first instance, the object was admitted,
to which they were directed?—(Hear, hear). They
were directed to peace—(Hear)—to Treace, if possible,
for all the world-16 peace; in the second place, for
the nations around es—andi lastly, to peace, at all
events, for this country, and that peace consistent with
its faith, its interest, and its honour—(Kear, hear).—
The negociations :War:idly divided themselies into
two parts.- The first qitestion to be determined was,
as to the. rectitude 'of our object; and the second
point we had to 'decide was—Did we go the right
Way about the accomplishment of that object ? Ai
to the question of whether u e , ght to go to war, he
,should postpone iti consider on for the present;
' merely observing, that if Gentlemen could contend,
that war was an imperative duty, the other consi-
'derations might not inconveniently, in their judg-
ment; be. abandoned • altogether. ;Tow,. in looking
it these Papers as directed, in the first instance, to
'the preOttintion of peaCc beivrieti France and Spain;

" 'also possible thatelaßoy,l;
le last of the assittance otfranct ;
by **aging in a war a
n that not besupporting thi minarit
goes- infix) ltzsposa a forks 'of Gov
which wishes of the majority ? But
of his in principle, it was not less
? He had just recovered from a st
de for history of the world; and s
voice from the burthens which th
induct I Was that then the moment

waitieW Gentleman wisl
) could sa# jdo dfaillkibdired, that all tls,e
they might .1 ail now Was—" 4Welittality-
in attempt- not barneutrality"-.:(Largz
;rant to the dmied4l). lion. Baronet, " I sum
lectionable save fashions now, and,t hat neat
fhe nation in rogue, and the newspapers,
ipled in the them, will say, • patronised by di