Star.
London, England, 1830-02-17 00:00:00

LAW OW LIBEL.

Mr. It'CONNELL renewed his dropped notice of motion for an
alteration in the Law declaring Truth to be a Libel.
Mr. J. BENETT presented a petition from Wiltshire, com-
plaining of the 42tieral distress of the country.
Mr. BEN t; rr presented a petition horn the hundred of Hindon,
and other places in Wiltshire, complaining of distress, and praying
for a reduction of expenditure and salaries. The hon. r•.tember
stated it to be within his own knowledge that numbers of persons
were out of employment, and even those who found employment
were not adequately paid. tome were only receiving 3s. a week.—
The Act of 1819, by which the currency had been restored, was the
eeusc of the distress. lie had never voted for the repeal of thecae"
and would not, but the consequences of the act must be a reduction
of taxation.

Mr. PORTMAN supported the prayer of the petition. He had
head the ministers of the Crown last night again and again deny.
log the distresses of the country. He would not for a single mo-
ment allow it to be supposed that he, tht member for a county,
eat mute, and did not assert that distress existed. The honourable
member for Wareham, whom he saw opposite, -was capable of in-
forming the Government upon the subject of the di.tresa. It was
necessary that the Governrneat should meet the distress. They
Mould remodel the taxation. He believed they might take off the
OMR tax. That would be the greatest relief to his (Mr. Portman's)
tlenstitucnts. They might also propose some tax on absentees, par-
ticularly the absentees of Ireland. The county of Wilts suffered
Materially from the large Imports made by Irish farmers, who could
undersell us in the market. Those constituents who more particu-
larly supported him did not intend to offer their petition until mi.
obters had made their expose. It was imperative on them to do
something, and that quickly.
The petition was brought up, and laid on the table.
Sir JOHN WROTTI.SLIW gave notice that on Thursday next
he should present a petition from Bilston, Staffordshire, against the
practice of paying labourers by goods.
Sir CHARLES WETHERELL gave notice that on the 3d
March he should move for " copies of the ex officio informations
retently filed against certain public journals ; for the minutes of
the judge before whom they were tried • the names of the Jurymen;
en exact minute of the words in which each jury pronounced its
verdict • and also an exact minute of the terms in which one of
the juries expressed its recommendation 'to mercy."
Mr. DI NISON presented &petition from Farnham, complaining
d distress.

- Colonel SIBTHORP gave notice that on the 3d of March, be
Iliould move for a repeal of the standing orders of the house for the
inclusion of strangers, as fir as regarded the reporters of the house, 1
card that they should afforded better accommodation.
Mr. BROWNLOW presented a petition from Claigh, Queen's
Minty, complaining of distress. The honourable member stated
that the distress was intolerable in Ireland. Throughout the wide
world there was not so much suffering as was to be found in Ireland.
As to their homes, their food, or their clothing, no language could
-soßerate the state of the distress. It had berm said that labourers
is England were receiving 3s. ad. a week. He was sorry to hem
that; but he begged to state that it was in evidence before the com-
mittee that the average amount of wages throughout Ireland did
mot exceed 3d. a day. How was it that, with • fertile soil, so much
Cahtmity was to be found throughout the land ? There was no con-
section between rich and poor. There was no obligation on the
wt of the rich mad in Ireland to assist or provide for paupers.
The petition he had to present prayed for the extension of the poor
laws to Ireland. The petitioners particularly prayed that the 43d
Queen Elie. might be applied to that country. He agreed with
them in that part of their petition.
Mr. BENETT observed that he had said that those who ob-
tained labour only received 3• a week, and that they had to work
hard for that sum.

The petition ;as laid on the table.
Mr. MARSHALL presented a petition from Leeds against the
renewal of the East India charter. The honourable member was
not distinctly heard in the gallery. He said that the removal of tbe.
restrictions of the East India trade had already produced the most
beneficial effects.
Dir. WHITMORE wished to know whether it was the inten-
tion of, ministers to give notice to the Court of Directors of the
East India Company (as they were empowered to do) that in Apnl,
at the expiration of two years, the Charter would expire. Viewing
the question as it stood at this moment, he could not bring himself
to believe that neutrality was seriously entertained by the govern-
ment. There seemed to be a disposition to compromise the ques-
tion. There ought to be entire freedom of trade--this was not only
a boon to be asked, but it was • right to be challenged. He felt
convinced that that right would not be conceded.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he did not
know upon what it was the hon. georleman founded his belief that
government was not acting with good faith. They were free to
adopt what course might appear to them to be the beet. The notice
was not required to be given undl Alai! IOC!. In the interval there
might occur, during the e...sininadons, material. to quicken them
in their decision.
Sir GEORGE PHILIPS said that the committee ea been a ,
cause of muchkidettsy among the manufactuting districts
Mr. WALLACE mid it was something pined that the first sa-
tins of the act was not to spew in an et • pert lotto way. One
feet of this armours would be to relieve the patiently ofleelsnd
fathe a ray peat grievance, and thus far kg highly approved of the
alteoiwoot popped by the noble lord. There were, however,
Imo paw ports of the Nil which he thought highly objectionable,
the last section. This section he considered not only
but most unjust,' foe It derived a men who had a
bleu fent hinds. *property to those whom by anon be was
bong to patelde fee. Thin, bethought, called quits as loudly for

amendment as the section adverted to by the noble lord. For his
'owi part, he wished to abstain from making any objections to the
measure till the house went into a committee upon it. He must,
however, express his best thanks to the noble lord for the magnani-
mity with which he had stated his opposition to a law for which the
landlords of Ireland bad shown a very great fondness, anti he
himself was not surprised that they should be partial to it. for it
threw into their hands a power which many might be disposed to
abuse.
Mr. A. ItA%VSON said that this was not the proper time for the
house to go into the details of this measure ; yet he must observe
that the noble lord who had brought it forward justly entitled himself
to the gratitude of Ireland. But, highly approving, as he did, of
the views generally entertained by the noble lord, he still thought
that it would he much better to get rid of this act altogether than to
endeavour to amend it. The Union could never be complete, or
the inters-ts of Ireland consolidated, till the statute Law of the on,.

country was made the same as the Statute Law of the other. The
only argument urged in favour of the Subletting Act was, that
farms were divided for the purpose of increasing the number of free.
holds, with a Slew to parliamentary patronage. That argot.
matt, however, was now leg without the slightest foundation, for
-10 s. freeholders no longer existed.
Me. O'CONNELL enured the house that nothing should fall
from hint %bleb should tend in the slightest degree to give this
quzstion a party aspect. He viewed it entirely upon its merits, dis-
tinct from all party consideration.. He entertained a strong feeling
that this act was to the last degree mischievous ; and he could state,
upon the authority of a person who generally differed from him
upon all subjects, that of the 7,000 individuals whom he had on a
former night represented as faniishing in Dublin, many had been
thus thrown upon the world by the operation of the subletting act.
Several petitions had already been presented against it, and he was
convinced that several more would he presented before the present
session expired. He did not mean to oppose the measure of the
nobll lord, who, though he had gone some way, had not yet gone
far enough. He admitted that these was a principle in it, but then
that principle ought to he embodied in a aew act. The only effect
which this art produced in Ireland was to thin the population, and
alter coatracts in favour of the rich, and to the prejudice of the
poor. (Hear, hear.) The honourable and learned member then
particularised various points which he described as imperfections in
the act, stating, at the a.me time, that under it neither marriage set-
tlements, nor provision tor younger children, could he made. He
would put it to the house whether it would not be better to repeal
this statute altogether, and create another in its place ? It was a
bad principle of legislation to make two acts., the one to amend the
other. This act was far from ?cruising all that was ork;inally anti-
cipated from it. It tended to increase the retourccs of the rich,
while it diminished the means of the poor. He was not one of
those persons who thought the class of middlemen were injurious to
a country like Ireland. On the contrary, he thought them of great
benefit to it, for they served, in a great degree, to mitigate the se.
verities of absenteeship, and they afforded to the poor man Pore.
thing like a market for the produce of industry. Not only did this
act increase the power of the rich while it injured ths poor, but It
also gave rise to strife and litigation through every part "f the coun-
try. it the house would accept of hit humble services, he would
most readily lend his aid towards framing a less objectionable
measure.

Mr. DOHERTY' thought it was much better to discuss the me-
rits of the measure clause by clause in the committee, than to go
into them in the present stage of the proceedings. From the rape.
rienee he had had of the proleseional ability of the hon. and learned
gentleman who had just eat down, he should mart readily avail him.
self of any suggestion he might favour him with; and if this were
the commencement of the hon. and learned member's political life,
he should be willing to believe his disavowal of this being regarded
by him as a party question. But he (Mr. Doherty) could r.ot give
the hon. a.id learned member all the credit he claimed for his dis.
avowal, when he recollected the great agitation which the question
had produced in Ireland, and that the hon. and learned member was
no stranger to it. Ile admitted that this set had created some die.
satisfaction, but certainly not to the extent reared .by the hon. and
learned member. He himself was not at he time it was framed the
legal ad; iser of the Chief Secretary for Ireland ; but he could mate
of the learned nerson to whose place he had unworthily succeeded
(the present Lord Plunket, as we understood,) that he was the but
man living who would think of promoting the interests of the rich
to the prejudice cf the poor. It would be recollected that the uct
itself had first emanated from a committee 'if that house, and there-
fore must be presumed to have had the entire concurrence of the
house. Upon that occasion, two very important questions had oc.
cupied their attention.— namely, the Catholic question, and the ques-
tion as to the subletting of land in Ireland. (Hear, hear.).—
The former of these questions had, happily fer the peace of the
empire, been since settled. While the cpiniun of the house pre-
' ponderated :n favour of concession to the Catholics, there was ne
difference of opinion whatever with regard to the other question;
foe all parties were agreed in thinking that the subletting of land
was the most injurious to the best interests of Ireland. They felt
that the system of creating middlemen ought not to be any longer
Loma:mad, and that the subdivision of Lend tended equally to im-
poverish the landlord and the occupying tenant. Day after day
complaints were made, both in that house and oat of it, respecting
the wretched condition of the population of Ireland ; and, en the
part of the landlords, erguments of this nature were urged :—" Well,
but why blame us? IVe wish to raise men to the rank and condi-
tion they ought to hold in relation to us, but we cannot do so, for
there is a defect in the law which prevents it." It was found that
the system of subletting had beer. carded to a molt ruinous centre,.
land that farms of 200 and 300 acres, which the landlords had left in
a flourishing condition, were, in a very short time, overspread with
a whole mass of paupers. Much as he thought of his noble friend's ,
talents, still he never thought that be could frame any measure which
would be rendered perfect all at once; and, therefore, hs was open
to any suggestion of improvement that might be offered. He con.
tended that every man was at liberty to exercise a control over his
own land, and to enter icto contracts, provided the pclicy of the
state was nut against his doing so. As to the former condition of '
the peasants of Ireland, it was worse than that of beasts who browsed
upon the land ; it was, therefore, high time that ions efforts should
be made for ameliorating it. The psoecipal object of the landlords
was, to raise up in the country, a chess of persons with whom they
could hold intercourse ; end be utterly denied that this act de-
Irerval the character it had received from certain individuals who
described it as the act of "an exterminating aristocracy." With
regard to the state of helmets, if he did not feel that he had
already transgressed the limas which he had pteseeibed to himself,
' and trespassed too long upon the attention of the house, be 'ehould
consider himself called upon by the part which he bad taken in the
bill bet year, and by his official connexion with that vountry, Wheat
his testimony io the distressed condition of the people. But, at the '
Dams thee, he was happy *.o be Mils to give it teethe remit namely of
his own observation, but of the communicatioos which he had re.l
ceived from men of intelligence in all parts of the oountry, that the
settlement of the Catholic Question had dons more for Irclar:tl than
the weeniest supporters of the measure coall have revicipeted. It
had produced ail the g4ed, and none of the harm, whkh pas fore-
told. If the house would take the advice of the bon. member foe
Clare--upon which he assured the honourable member heshould
always find him (Mr. Doherty) ready to act, both in that house
and elsewhere, whea:it was given without an appeal to the personal
feelings, or passions or pr.:jut:las of men- -If they went on calmly
and staolliy, keeping in 71ans the conditioners( the country, in
order to its atnelloration, he was convinced that they would soon
see Ireland make strides towards prosperity more rapidly than
could be calculated. Tice good effects of the measure were already
visible in the conduct and feelings of the upper classes of society ;
and the whole Catholic hierarchy, who were last year in a state of
discontent and dissatisfaction, were now in all quarters exhorting
the people to peace, and tranquillity, and tem He trusted
that the debates in that house weight partake of these attributes, and
that nothing would pass +ere to eaasperate the country or any por-
tion of the people. (Cheen—amongst others ikon Mr. O'Connell.)
In reply to is hon. and learned friend who cheered him, he would
only observe that topics of exasperation were urged Dealer to the
scene of action than the walls of that house.

Lord ALTHOItPE gave his approbation to the prindpie of the
measure, and he thought Mr. O'Connell had been improperly at-
tacked, for he had stated his objections to the bill in the most can.
did and temperate manner.
Sir H. PARNELL wished to express his obligations to the
noble lord who had introduced this measure, which he was sure
would be productive of the gramma benefit to Ireland. It was true
there bad been petitions in great numbers against it, and such pe-
titions deserved the utmost possible attention ; but he believed that
the complaints made by these petitioners were not against the prin.
ciple of the bill, but against some particular clauses in it. It was
supposed by some that the Subletting Act gave to the landlord the
power of removing the temmt. This was a mistake; the Act pre-
vented too great a change of occupiers. The honourable and
teemed member for Clare had made a mistake in regard to the
cause of the poverty and distress of Ireland, if he imagined that
the almost infinite subdivision of land did not contribute to pro-
duce that
Sir F. BUILD Tr said, that as to the fact stated by the hon•
and learned member br Glare, that the Subletting Act had tended
to produce a large poetise of she pauper population of Dublin, he
would not deny the sosismeneef the honourable and learned mem.
ben ; but it was the subdivide.' Oland shish hat, in a peat ans.
sure, created that 'meaty. There vas sentethinArprery tenawy,
but especially in such a emery as behind, dos esti of
=eat, and that was the enstom of the pesplitor The ben. and
member mast, ea distsithject, be base liosiiiisibdays
other man to give the boom lahunation, and II pith them IS
&mimosa& of limit eddied whit • for the madhooden
He was glad to War% from NA an excellent and imikenthie entiso.
thy as the aolisites-Georwol gor Would, the Waft" AIM of the
peat manure of last modes; and he should Imlay via list hen.
end hatted member bs bops@ of the future inessiebs prosperity of

that country. But when he heard these statements, WI like OM-
merits of the same hon. and learned member, as to the
falsifications of all the prophecies of the evils that meant=
have produced, he could not help asking whether the member for
Clare, more than any other person in the kingdom, was not the man
to whom the country was indebted for these advantages? So that,
in referring to that honourable member, they ought not to go
backward in his career to find cause of blame, and, least of all, to
seek to discover in it those expressions which the heats of discussion
on that great question had called forth. The present was not a
party question, and he trusted it would not so be treated.

The SOLI CITOR-OENER A L thought that the law of England
anil Ireland might be advantageously assimilated in many respects,
but still these were peculiar circumstances which made a difference
in each. They had not now to consider whether a law should be
passed to prevent subletting in Ireland. That law had passed, and
the only object now was to provide remedies for some objections
r:hich had been discovered in the operation of that set. The mem.
ber for Clare had said that the first clause of the late act worked
much mischief. It had not been the intention of the legislature
that should do so, nor did these mischiefs result from any want
of care in the wording of the act; tbr use what care they could, it
was impossible to ensure success in the use of language that all men
would agree to put the same construction upon. He had looked
vith extreme attention at the act, and he felt no hesitation in saying
that, according to the true constriction, it could not have an
er poet facto operation. The honourable and learned member
went into a statement of the clauses of the bill, which, he
said, had been called for by the peculiar necessities of the time,
and he gave his approbation to the clause which did not allow'
the tenant to take advantage of any implied waiver on the
part of his landlord of the express terms of the lease. In that'
respect he wished the English law was the same, for in this country
the doctrine of implied waiver was productive of much needless liti-
gation. Ile knew that it had been and was the intention of the
government fai ly to meet the wishes and the wants of the Irish
people ; and if ever there was an act passed with the real desire to
ameliorate the condition of the people, this was that act ; and he
could assure the hon. and learned member for Clare that he should
give all the assistance in his power in furtherance of such an object.
Mr. O'CONNELL explained, and leave was then given to bring
in the bill.