Star.
London, England, 1813-02-24 00:00:00

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ter ably is every thing Urged with tan apply
to the general qt ea, thin Tibial beg -leave to read
one of .its most impoonnt paragraphs.. Effete the
Honourable Baronet read that passage which describ-
ed his Royal Highness as holding it to' be .a funda-
mental principle in the British Constitution, that the
prerogatives of the Crown were vested in it, and-were
only sacred when exercised.in trust and for the beneli
of the people; that nothing short of paramount neces.
sity would therefore justify him to himself in suffering.
an experiment tobe made in hisperson, with how small a
powtion of power the Government could be carried on.
The experiment, however, was made, and in a man-
ner not less disrespectful to the-Prince than injurious
ei the country. It is to prevent future proceedings
ef the same nature. to preserve the cfue balance of
The Constitution, and ;lard against the assumption
-
by two branches of the Legislature of the functions
told authorities of the whole, that I have brought this
tb.ubject under the consideration of the House. So
tontrary to the true theory of the constitution was the
-exercise of the conjoint -power pf the three brunches
of the Legislature, by one or both of the Houses,
held in preceding times, that by a statute all the pe.
nalties of a fernamaire-were incurred by any person
who should maintain that such a power could be
ever constitutionally assumed. lam far from consi-
dering, as I before said, that the miserable counter-.,
feit to which the two Houser had recourse was any
apology for their conduct ; and if it be undeniable
that certain great individuals are in the practice of
placing their dependents in Parliament, it becomes
still more important to adopt salutary and sufficient
precaution against the schemes of faction or the ma-
chinations of designing Ministers. I do not expect
to be told, when I express my opinion •that the Re-
gency ought to devolve on the Princess Charlotte,
that she is not the proper person, or is not of suffi-
cient age. After the . atute of Henry VIII. no
doubt can exist upon the latter point, and it is surely
hetter,to frame a provision now, than to wait until it
may come to be -done in a time cf anarchy--(Hear,
kw.) Something may be said as to the possibility
of the birth of another and more immediate heir, but
in the unfortunate disunion which prevailed in the
Royal Family, that event is very improbable. Un-
der these circumstances, the duty incumbent on the
Legislature seems to me perfectly plain, and to con-
sist in affording-to the Public a security of uiiinter-
rupted and efficient Government on any dissolution
of the present Regency.during the life of his Ma-
jesty. For, Sir, (continued the Hon;Bdronet) far
from being an instrument, or wishing td' be such, in
bringing forward 'the present motion; by which the
desires of the malignant might be gratified in seeing
the seeds of dissension sowed amon the Royal Fa,
roily; far from any thing like this, can state to the
;
House, that theproposnion which am now. about
-to make has had the fullest meature. of approbation
from the major part of the Members of the Royal
Family. Wit possible, Sir, that any man can be
blind to the vast danger arising from such a state of
the Goiernment as would require that the two
'Houses "should prevent the Lord Chancellor to mis.
-apply the Great Seal ? Who can say, wpen an evil
arises to such a pitch as this, where it will stop ?
Would it, forinstance, be a very violent transition
from such a stretch of power as that to which Ihave
itlluded, to go to the full extent of dispossessing the
lawful heirs of the Crown of their inheritance ? Do
,1 speak, Sirinf a ohitneta.of a thing which it is im•
possible should happen ? Sir, it has happened. The
Great Seat of France was affixed-to the deed that de-
livered to an enemy the inheritance of that monarch's
legitimate heir. But it is net the monarch's rights
only that are at stake—the prerogative of the Crown
is as much the property of the people as it is of the
•sovereign, and they are equally interested in preserv-
ing it untouched and entire. Indeed, the danger ari-
sing to them was obvious. Wbat was mere to prevent
the Great Seal in the recent state of the executive be-
ing affixed to acts of penalty and attainder ? Neither
ohe Crown nor the People are sate while such a state
-of tbiugs can recur; and -assuredly it does not require
-multiplied• arguments to persuade those who value
the Constitution to consent to any measute intended
to guard against its recurrence, if any traces of those
feelings remain in their breasts, under which they
suffered at the period of difficulty and alarm to
which I allude. My sole object in now addressing
aLe House is the preservation of that 'Constitution,
unimpaired, of which I have ever been the active, if,
-not able defender. - I have therefore contented my-4
-self with a plain dry statement of my views, with-_',
out adverting to any, extraneous topics, which, "if,
such was my wish, I might have blended with thenop
but it was by no means my desire to arouse any paroi
ty-feelings, or in any way stimulate passions, which,;
far,from leading to the accomplishment of what I had
in view, would have rather,thwarted it.. My object
is, to induce the House to embrace this opportunity
of guarding against an evil of the most menacing and
formidable aspect, and not to wait till necessity, like
an armed man exulting in his power, and deaf to the
voice of reason, shall rush upon them, bearing down
all resistance, and forcing way where it is thought that
sufficient barri.rs oppose its progress. Too anxi-
ously, Sir, no man can deprecate a repeated appari-
rition of that nppaling phantom to which the lints of
our immortal Bard, in which be so admirably per-
sonifies the destroyer of all things, will so most hap;
pily apply—

44 The other shape,
" If shape it might be call's!, that shape bad none
" Distinguishable in member, joint, or limb;
u Or substance might be rall'd that shadow arced;
For each seem'd either -----
" What serni'd his head
" The likeness of a kingly crown had on
Too anxiously, Sir, no one can deprecate that this
phantom should never raise its engine of destruction,
the. Great Seal, to strike as fatal a blow to the Con
stitution, as that With which the dart of Milton's ter-
rible shade could check the life of mortals. Sir, it is
only necessary to shew the danger with which the
prerogative was threatened by this abominable re-
spondent to Ministerial incantations, to remind the
House of the alarm it created ir. Royal bosoms.. It
will be recollected, that all the Royal Dukes remon•
.strated ou the occasion ; andit will also be recollect-
ed, that their remonstrance was treated with most
unbecoming contempt—they were Called the College
t't Princeitis and various other witticisms, equally
Pointed, were applied to them. And why ? because
thLy endeavoured to protect the rights of that Crown
in which they certainly have a greater interest than
y other class of subjects. lam unable Sir, to an-
Itc pate any argument by which the proposition I


mean to *IAA t dig 14ottleato.a be Numbly 6P-
Posed I • and • Title nbesoecTupy the tithe-of
she idottee Ells- Mort tpeotteeted defence- of Is—le
rams not dubiii arguntenhnn noh ostwariunif—Yett
although my reasoning; . may be too plain, too
simple, and appeal too rorcibly to common setise to
admit of 'heists( quelled by ingenditys the object of
them is not slight. If that .be considered, my task
has been of a Serious nature ) I have undertaken to
rescue the prerogative from the state of pupillage
into which it has been heretofore degraded. I shall
conclude, Sir, with moving, dg That leave be given
to bring in a Bill'to provide against itfterruption in
the exercise cf the Royal Authority, in the event of
the death of his Royal Highness, the Prince Regent
dying during the continuance of his Majesty's ma-
lady."
Lord COCHRANE seconded the motion of the
Hon Baronet.


:Gld bp ol ddet imortin the tens slob Where-
co it *V
ettioh might be now settle with the utmost
temperance,— tekt, tht con cittsign of this speech, there
were lottd etifs of ** i2gettiort, gentien Pi end the Gal-
lery V/2, pertly bleated for a, division.] •
Mr. PONSONBY then tose, and said, that asi-
thoUgh 'the question might have come better from
the ministers of the Crown. yet as the Honourable
Baronet had thought proper to bring it forward
to the consideration• of the Hotise, he wished, be-
fore he gave his vote in favour of the motion, to
explain, in a Ivey few weird:, the reason of his
vote. He allowed that such measures as this whin
.was proposed, shoold generally proceed from the'
Government ; but there might be cases, where, if
Parliament was moved to theectiasideration of them.
it was fully competent to them to determine them,
even although Government might be unwilling to in-
vite their attention to the subject. As to the con-,
tingency itself, it did not appear to him as improbable
as it seemed to some other Gentlemen ; for all knew,
that although his Majesty was afflicted with a severe
mental malady which made him incapable of exer-
cising the functions of Royalty, yet that he enjoyed
as sound health as any man of his age, and there was
a great probability of his living for many.years. If
that was the case, there only stood one life between
us and all ate difficulties which had been experienced
'on two former occasons. Suppose that event to take
place, he thought that it would be too much for any
individual to expect, that his arguments would be
able to induce Parliament to act differently from the
mode they had adopted on the two former occasions.
He sapposed, that in such a case, Parliament would
act according to the precedents then laid down. The
proposition of the Hon. Baronet, which was now un-
der their consideration, was not for determining the
quantity of power which was to be given to a future
Regent, nor, fur declaring who should be the
Regent : it was merely a motion for leave to bt ing in
Bill to provide against any interruption of the Royal
Authority, in the case of the contingency taking
place which was stated. Now it appears to him,
that ilthis motion was granted, 'and the Bill brought
1, Parliament would have it in its power, without de- ;
parting from the principles established in the former
instances, to make such provisions as would (should
the case occur) remove a great deal of the difficul-
ties which were experienced in the former instances,
and enable the Government to put itself into activity
in a much shorter time. As he thought that this
good might arise from all Owing the Honourable. Ba-
ronet
en bring in his Bill, he should r -ae in favour of
the motion.
Lord CASTLEREAGH trustedahat he should
Ise able to shew the House, that there was not a suf-
ficient necessity to induce the prudence of the Hattie
to agree to the motion before them. He allowed that
the Hon. Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett) had brought
the subject forward with great candour and fairness.
The Hon. Baronet, however, who had been induced
by his constitutional view of the subject to bring for-
ward the present motion, appeared to him to be more
anxious to destroy the authority of the Parliamentary ,
proceedings in the twgp former instances, than to pro-
vide for the contingency he had stated. He ap-
peared to think it of the greatest importance, to re-
but and subvert all the principles which they had
laid down upon this subject ; and to get rid of what
he considered a pernicious precedent. Fur his part,
he had a view of the subject directly opposite.—
He thought that it was a great benefit, and a
blessing to the country, that the great constitu.
tional difficulties which attended this subject had
been removed, and the point settled on thifullest
discussion, which was after wards revised upon the
late occasion ;—and in which the greatest legal ;
and constitutional learning had been displayed.-'-
-lie
considered that those precedents would be a
great protection to the country hereafter, from simi-
lar difficulties. He allowed that Parliament had a
right to enter into such Considerations without a mes-
sage from thg Crown ; but it was always for their
prudence to consider, whether they should expose
themselves to, a conflict with the Crown upon the
looint4 In any thing respecting money, all conflict
with the Crown was pievented by the necessity of the
Crown proposing, or previously- consenting to the I
grant. In common legislative measures this was not
necessary ; but it was obvjons that there was no de-
scription of questions more likely to involve the House
'in a conflict with the Crown, than a question which
touched the Crown so nearly. The contingepcy
which was mentioned, appeared to him to be so very
remote a one, that he thought the Hon. Baronet,
upon his own principles, should rather have proposed
a permanent Regency. Bill, applicable to all cases,
Than confine himself to this particular contingency.
It appeared to him, however, that what the Hon.
Baronet wanted, was to destroy the discretionary
power of Parliament upon the subject ; and that he
preferred the question being determined on the heredi-
. . .

Mr. B. BATHURST having expressed his appro-
bation of the mild and temperate manner in which
the Hon. Baronet had submitted his proposition to
the House, said, that he must reluctantly dissent
from him in opinion as to its expediency. It was, in
his apprehension, altogether uncalled for; ard that
being the case, he would oppose it. Ahd indeed,
notwithstanding the care which the Honourable Ba-
ronet had so properly taken to exclude from his speech
all extraneous topics, he feared that no discussion
could take place without many being therein invol-'
ved, which, it was -obvious, he, himself could not
wish to have stirred. But the Honourable Baronet
had himself intimated a doubt, whether the Heir
Apparent had not a right to succeed to the functions,
the fixing of which was the object of his motion,
without any interference of Parliament. Now, if
such was the case, he had thrown out a question gra-
tuitously for the House to discuss, at a period when
business of importance occupied its attention, and of
course he'could not expect that much attention would
be paid to Iris proposition.
.He conceived that the
House could not properly enter into any discussion
on such a subject, without being called on from the
Throne to do so ; and when this consideration was
combined with the delicate nature of the subject, and
the great difficulties it involved, he could not for a
moment suppose that the House would hesitate 'to
eject the motion. .
Mr. BRAND was desirous of stating his reasons
for supporting the motio4 of the Honourable Baro-
vt ; but in doing so, he would carefully avoid the'
Introduction of extraneous matter. He would
refrain from all allusion to those circumstances whi
at present form the subject of general conversation;
nor would he say any thing as to the party views
which had been displayed, as was alleged, in the for-
mer discussions on this subject. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had assigned as his reasons for opposing.
the motion : Ist, that it did not come recommended
by the Crown"; 2d, that there was no necessity for
it; and that the House ought to await the arrival of
' a case of necessity before they agitated the question.
On these points he differed entirely from the Right
Honourable Gentleman ; for he could not believe
that it was essentially necessary to have the recom-
mendation of the Crown before discussing a question
of such vital importance both to the Crown and the
community ; and he could see but very little wisd•
indeed in waiting•the arrival or a case of necessity,
and taking measures on the spur of the 'case, instead
of providing for the case upon previous mature deli-
beration. The Right Honourable Gentleman had
stated, that there was no necessity for bringing for-
ward the question at this time. In his opinion, it
was a point of great magnitude, and commanding
necessity. What must be the feelings of the person
who was to exercise the royal authority ? what must
be the feelings of every one-who felt an anxiety that
the Crown should be supported in its dignity, in louk-
ing at the contests of rival parties tearing the powers
of the office in pieces ? These matters ought to be
prOvided for by-digested plans, to prevent the recur-
rence of such disgraceful scenes as they had on for-
mer occasions witnessed. Such contentions of fac-
tions—such restrictions on the royal authority—such
violations of the Constitution—in holding out to the
people that the powers of the Crown were not neces-
sary in their full extent for the Government of the
' country. Something ought to be done, without de-
lay, to put an end t 6 such occurrences. It was now
more necessary than it might be in oilier times.
There was only one life between us and the recur-
rence of the difficulty; and under such circumstances
'the Bill ought undoubtedly to be received, and the
remedy proposed by the Honourable 13aronct, or some
other remedy, ought to be adopted. It might, per-
haps, be urged, that this would lead to discussions
in regard to some other unfortunate circumstances.
connected with the Royal Family I but legislation '
ought not to be impeded merely because such discus-
sions might be introduced. He hoped, however, the
House would have-too much delicacy, and too strong
la sense of propriety to introduce such discussions
without the most unavoidable necessity.—(Hear,
hear.)—Upon the whole, the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman had stated no good reasoq against the pro-
posed measure, and the motion should have his cor-
dial support.
Lord A. HAMILTON* likewise supported the
motion, which the present circumstances rendered not
only proper, but necessary. It must be recollected,
that in 1801 circumstances did arise which made it
more than suspicious that publicity was not given to
the real circumstances'of his Majesty's indisposition,
and .that Ministers did then contrive sonic way or
other to exercise the royal authority, at a time that
his Majesty's state of health rendered him quite in-
competent to the discharge of the functions of royalty.
Mr. C. W. WYNNE agreed with the Hon. Gen-
tleman, that if a message should come down from the
Crown, for the purpose of settling the question of
Regency in future, it would be the most regular and
graceful way for Parliament to proceed upon-the sub-
ject. At the same time it must be recollected, that
Parliament had at different times proceeded to alter
the succession of the Crown, and sometimes without
any message. Those great men who passed the cele-
brated Exclusion Bill, did not wait for a message.
from the Crown upon the subject. It was most clearly
within the power of Parliament to originate the ques-
tion themselves. It was said that there was no great
probability of the contingency arriving : in that case,
it appeared to him that the subject might be discussed
without any irritation, and without any revival of
these angry feelings which had been so much depre-
cated, but drily, as a simple constitutional question.
U the contingency should really happen, then there

the benefit of his eguteept, tad tepresidted 3f bike.
What had been the state of the mantra! since llBsa
.iaternseqtente of what he conceived to be the dila-
tory and improper conduct of the Legislature, in not
kproviding against contingencies of this nature? and
yet the Honourable Baronet's proposition evaded not
to bind the Legislature to any particular measure, but
to leave to subject freely open to discussing and idea
liberate arrangement. In 1788, his Majesty *as
afßicted with a malady which continued so long that
a Regency Bill passed the House of Common; and
was in progress through the Upper House. Many
were then of opinion that some distincP proceeding
should'be adopted ; but the, delicacy of the Royal
advisers restrained them from advisi ig his Ma.jesty
to send a message down to Parliament on the sunject.
In 1504, his Majesty had a relapse of his indisposi.
tion. On that occasion, Ministers thought proper, the
King being in a state in which private persons would
not be permitted to manage their private affairs, to
carry on (the Noble Lord being one and the Lord
Chancellor another of those Ministers ) the business of
I.Government under the mask of the Royal authority.
In 1810, his Majesty became ag.tin afflicted. *l'lle
' House recollected the angry discussions that had
• taken place in Parliament. The House recollected
that the Prince of %Vales thought that the LAI/cony
with which he had been treated by the servants of
the Crown, equal to that which he had experienced
in 1788. Hopes were, from time to time, held out
.of the recovery of his Majesty. In the mean time,
the Executive Authority remained in abey ince s and
in the subsequent discussions the greatest inconve-
nience was sustained in consequence of no kind of
provision having been made on the subject after the -
occurrences of 1788. In 1811 he had taken the
liberty to bring these circumstances under the consi-
deration of the House. He had stated what he eon•
ceived to have been remissness on the part of the ser-
vants of the Crown, and had, proposed the appoint-
ment of a committee to provideagaiust the recurrence
of such serious inconveniences. The House had
thought proper to negative drat proposition. Frent
that day no proceedusg wha:ever had been adopted.
i This, however, appeared to be the precise moment
for some Parliamentary arrangement on the subject;
for party hca:s were so allayed, that there would be
no danger of reviving those animoluies to which f ir-
-1 mer discussions had given birth. Of this, the tem.
Aerate tone of the debate of that evening afforded a
, practical proof. Unquestionably the death of the
Regent before that of his Majesty was not a very
probable'event. But that it was a very possible event,
every day's experience in common life gave ample
evidence. If oath an event should occur, in what a-
' tuation would the country be placed ? Princess Char-
lotte was competently qualified Both by age and by
talents to assume the royal authority; and yet Parlia-
ment must go through certain forms before they
could confer on her that which unquestionably they
would confer on her—the unrestricted Regency ; for
the restrictions. originally imposed on the, Regent
were imposed only in the contemplation of an event
now hopeless—the recovery of his Majesty. On these
grounds lie felt the utmost satisfaction in supporting
the mction of the Honourable Baronet, persuaded as
he was that he could not better fulfil his duty than
by so doing.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT replied to the mi.
ous arguments that had been urged against them°-
, don. He expressed the pleasure which he had expo-
' rienced at hearing none of the great doctrines of the
i law, none of the great principles of the Constitution
ion which he had insisted in the speech with which he.
opened the discussion, controverted or denied. He
' acknowledged also the fairness and manliness of
; ' meeting his motion by a direct negative, rather •than
getting rid ofieby the previous question.' It so hap-
, pened that no great stress had been laid on any of the
;objections to his motion which he hid anticipated.-e-
The Right Hon. Secretary of State had not subver-
ted one of the propositions which he had advanced.
All that the Right Hon. Gentlemen had contended ,
! amounted to this, that a sufficient fur the day was
the evil thereof." He was still convinced, that there
was much less danger (as,history sufficiently evinced)
in establishing the course to be taken by a previous
proceeding of Parliament than on leaving it to sub.
sequent discretion. This, in his opinion, woultebe
i, the best way to maintain the genuine principles
lof the Constitution. He felt himself wholly excul-
i 'sated from the charge of not waiting until the
concurrence of die Crown in such a proposition shoidd
' be intimated. On various occasions he had attempted
to draw the attention of Government to the sub-
ject. He had in vain tried every avenue to Wing
it under their consideration. He did not, there-
fore, considcr that his conduct on the present occa.
sion was improper or presumptuous. The Noble
Lord who had spoken with such great fluency and
eloquence, had chosen to say that he (Sir F. Burdett)
preferred hereditary principle to a Parliamentary
•of proceeding, Bat that to • the Noble

.
tary principles than by the discretion of Parliament. ' COM 46
O . * wiiicth
In determining upon which principle the question ".Lord alluded was not Parliament. How, could it be
should be decided, there was certainly a balance of ,
so called when the Executhe authority, was in abet'.
inconveniencies. But the reason why it was better : ance ?He could not consent to leave .the country to
that it should rest in the discretion of Parliament, :the danger of being again placed in .a situation in
was; that Parliament felt it its first duty to take care ! which the Minister of the day mutt take on himself
that the Rbyal Power should be restored undiminished i all the functions of Royalty. Against this he would
into the hands to which it legitimately belonged, as 'provide by an Act of Parliament, legally enacted;
soon as the Sovereign was again capable of exercising and to which legality the concurrent consent of the
three branches of the Legislature was Indispensable.
his royal functions: whereas, upon the hereditary '
As to the nature of; the contingency, that was no
principle, the Royal Power being fully and imme:l
diately transferred to the Regent, there was not the ground on which his motion could be rationally op.
same security for she resumption of it by the Sove-
po,ed. No common man would, however, choose
reign, when the temporary cause which suspended his
to risk his affairs on such a contingency. But that
le
personal exercise of it was removed. He conceived, was not the question. The simp question was,
that the contingency was not sufficiently probable to Whether by Act of Parliament the principle of the
justify Parliament, in the exercise of its prudence and Constitution which involved in it the hereditary de.
discretion, in adopting the proposition of the Hon. scent of the Crown should be established/ This was
Baronet. I a principle not to be constrained ornautilated. And
et the two Houses of Parliam.nt had several times
Mr. WHITBREAD declared that he should be y
sorry to allow the question to go to a vote, without : assumed the exercise of the Royal Authority. -He
saying akw words upon it. On the former discus. ' bad always been taught to believe, that the preserve.
sions relative to the Regency, a party in that House , don of the prerogatives of the Crown was essential to
contended, that the proper rno.'e of proceeding would the public. benefit. It tine exercise of these pi erogs.
be to address the Heir Apparent, to take the Execu. i tives, however, could b.. suspend.Nl at one time, there •
ltive Authority into his own hands. Parliament, how- . was no reason why they could npt be suspended at al
ever, decided, that the Regei cy should be consti. times. For his part he was at a toss to conceive ft..,"
a greater good could be done to the country, than by
toted by Bill. Now, what was the pa ,position or the
Honourable Baronet? Not that, in the event of the determining this impt•rt ant Stlb*t at a period like
death of the Regent, the Regency Ahould devolve the pre.eni, when it did nut appear possible that fee.
'on Princess Charlotte' but that a Bill should be in. jugs of heat and animosity would be inttodnced into
troduced, to enable Parliament to provide for an the discussion.—The House then divided—For the
event, the contingency of which was not very great, Motion 73—Against it ,238—M ilia), leis.
aldiongh it was not to snail nit the Noble Lord, for ttie House then adjourned, at halt past cloven.