Star.
London, England, 1805-03-20 00:00:00

onderßood front the vote he meant to give this night,
chat it was his intention to refill any appeal to the
opinion of the Judges upon this important cak.
Lord AUCKLAND rote to reply. The Noble
Lord obferved, in forcible terms, on the cruelty of
bringing the Learned Judge, whole cafe was under
ennfide ration, with his witneffes, from above four
hundred miles dillance, toanfwer fuchlerioiss charges
as were alledged againft him, before the Houle had
fully deliberated and decided upon the proper mode
tuf rroceeslir‘g to invelligare thnfe charges. That
erode wag oat, he maintained, as yet dikovered—and
he very much apprebehded that Ihould the Hnufe
proceed farther in the courfe recommended by the
opponents of his motion, their Lordfhips would find
themfelves in the aukward and degrading dilemma
of being obliged to retrace their Reps.
The LORD CHANCELLOR in explanation,
hated, that ha did not mean to infinnate that the rib-
kit of this motion was to create delay, or to impede
the progrs.4 of the invelligation to which it referred
—but he would beg Noble Lords to be alfured, that
whatever impediments might be thrown in the way,
this bulinefs tbould not end until complete jullice
was done between the country and the individual
concerned.
Lord AUCKLAND nbferved, that if the Noble
*.ord who had MI fat down meant to fay that the
°hied of his motion was merely to create delay, fuch
LUlpage was not Parliamentary, and if the Noble
Lord did not mean to larks, his obfervation was al.
together.unneceffary. In vindication of his motives
for the propofition he (submitted to the Houfe, he
fhoold only,mentinn that he had nn kind of acquain-
tance whatever with the Learned perfon who was
the obit& of this jnvelligation, and that he was adu-
ated folely by a fenfe of duty, and a defire to do
inflict.
The queflion being put, a divifinn was called for,
and the numbers were, for the motion—Contents
17—Non Contents 29—Majority 12.
On the re-admifGon of grangers, we found Lord
Auckland on his legs giving notice of a motion upon
the fame Cubic& for Monday next, for which day the
Lords were, on the motion of Lord Granville, or-
dered to be fummoned.
Ordered, on the motion of Lord Auckland, that
the order for the attendance of witncires. &c. on the
Rutter invelligation of Judge Fox's cafe, thould be
poßponed till the 6th of May next.
NAVAL smutty.
The Duke of CLA RENCE gave notice of his in-
tention to move, on Toasty next, for the prodsidion
of farther gapers relative to the Report of the Com-
=Moller* or Naval Inquiry.
The Lords were, on the motion of his Royal
frighnefs, ordered to be fionmoned for Tuefday.
Mr. T. Srass.a becutiht up from the Commons
Lard Jnbn Thyane's indemnity Bill, which was read
a firll time, and ordered to be read a fecond time to-
morrow.—Adjonrned at to o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. Cavemen& beadfhaw took the oaths and his feat.
gin Joan Wituase Aaronson brought up a Bill to aimed the
Aft •f the it of Ms prekrit Malefty, for regulating the prices,
aid the saltine of Dread, and for the more effedbeelly mailbag
peldam alhodins wird the bloc—Read a kit time, end-anier.
at to be reed a fecond time to-morrow.
SAL How mos moved the order of the day for the third read
tog Otte Save Drawback Bill, which paired, and wee ordered
Nebo Leeds.
Me Lomb premed a paper eattaining the commlnion of Jobe
/Nam of Athol. as Governor of the Inc of Man, which was or-
dead b Ile upasi the table.
Mr. 3v est e moved the order of the day. for the faced reading
of Lord Phu 'fltynn's Indemnity Bill, which was then committed,
Old ordered to be angeoged.
The CAA reecwia of the Exemseto IR laid, as there was a no-
tice Sealing fur this day, 4y an Hon. Geotlemin oppofite, whom
diaved in his place, and there were forced other orders to be
dtlissfeel of, he wafted to pollpone his motion for the Staludtioa of
tie Militia till Tberfday neat.
• Mr Fez gave notice, that he &mid patent the Catholic Peti-
den on Mondry nest.
Sir Wu. You sua moved, that the Papers relative to the extent
If the Wet &Aare& with Ireland, and alto thek repedting the
Weft India trade with Great Britain, which bad been lately pre-
kat•d to &sneak, fhoskl be printed for the WC of the Members.
Dam&
The fecood reading of the 818 for regulating the hi& Fledtion.
leak on the motion of Colood bagwell, ponponed till Monday
Arse
The Repined the Exchequer Bilk Bin was received—Ordered
to herald a third that to morrow.
IRMO IMPORT DUTIES.

The Irifh Sugar Drawback Bill paged through a
Committee, and the Report was ordered to be reedy-
ad to-morrow.
. Mr. FOSTER moved the order of the day for a
Committee of the whole Houle oa the Ira Eacife
Duty Bill •
Sir JOHN NEWPORT rote to rugger' to the
Right Hon. Gent!emu) the propriety of poßponing
the further confider ion of this Bill, on account oT
its being a meattire which bore peculiarly oppreffive
on the Irifb, and from the (tort time which it had
been before the.-Houfe, it could not have undergone
that mature confideration which was neceffary in fax
Bills. It had been introduced only on Saturday lel.
a day on which the Honfe did not uftiallY fit, and
when but few Members attended ; and it had been
read a fecond time nn Monday, the (Olivet of the'
mitrou Saint of heland, who, though he might bare
influence enough to deftroy the venomous 'nature of
noximis animas' had not the addicts to prevent the
impofition of-rtedruCtive taxes. In this meafure, no
protettion was afforded to the fubjeO, who was left
expofed to the rapacity of Excife Officers. He had
come down to the Houfe to-day with the exprefs in-
tention of taking the fenfe of the Heufe upon the fob-
jea, having bad no opportunity of doing it before, and
be fuggelled the propriety of referring it to the fur-
ther conSideration of the Committee, who Should fit
at Such a time of the day, that it mighl have a fair op-
portunity of being fully dircuffed, before it pilled
through the Houfe, and was enafted into a law.
The SPEAKER here called the Hon. Member to
order, and obferved, that any order before the Houle,
that was likely to produce dircuffion. Should properly
be fufpended, that the notices of the day might be
previoutly difpnied of.
After a few words from Sir Jolla Newtorr,
Mr. FOSTER agreed to withdraw the motion till
after the notices Should have been difpofed of.
• Tilt PRINT'S°
Sir JOHN WILLIAM ANDERSON prefented
a Petition from a number of Matter Printers, praying
for leave to prefent a Petition to the Honfe for the
better regulation of their trade in future. The Peti-
• limo listed that in the year Oka, on the ground of

the then high price of the necefaries of life, inn ad-I
'lance of prices was given both to the Compofitorsl
and Preffinen, the two dares of workmen employed
in their banners. The Preimen, however, had lately
declared themfelves to be not fatisfied with the ar-
rangament which had then been made, although
there were no fuck grounds now in exigence to fup-
pnrt their pretenfions as thofe which had juQified the
requeft made in t Soo, when the kale of prices was
lag fixed. Almon all the Preffmen in London had
voluntarily left their work, in confequence of their
demand being now refined, but which if acceded to,
would greatly tend to difcourage, or materially in-
jure the Export Trade. In confequence of thefe men
haying fuddenly quitted their work, the public butt-
nets was confiderably delayed, the publication of pe-
riodical literary works WAS for a time fufpended. and
the revenue was likely to be materially inure& Upon
there grounds the Petitioners prayed the Houk to
interpore its authority towards their immediate relief,
and for the •prevention of the recurrence of limilar
inconveniencies in future. The meafure which they
humbly fubmitted to the Houle was, that they might
be enabled to take apprentices of riper years than
thofe who are in general bound to working bufineflet,
and that they might be authorized to have them
hound for a &otter duration in proportion ; and
finally that a plan may be adopted for the future re-
gulation of the trade.
The prayer of the Petition was granted. The other
Petition, praying for leave to have a Bill brought in,
was then brought up and ordered to be referred to a
Committee, confining of the Members for the Cities
of London and Weßminfler, and Gentlemen of the
Long Robe, *o were ordered to prepare amdbring
in the Bill.

• am roitovea's ACCOUNTS.
Mr. eREEVEY Paid, he rote to make the Motion
of which he had given notice: He had been indcc-
ed to bring it forward in confequence of its appear-
ing, by documents before the Hot:re, that a very
large fans of money was due from Mr. Fordyce to
the Public. and that no Reps had been taken by Go-
vernment for its recovery. In the Firil Report of
the Comnsiffioners appointed to examine into the
public accounts, it appeared that, as Receiver-Gene-
ral of the Land Tax in Scotland, Mr. Fordyce was
in arrear 64.0001. and in the Appendix to the Re.
port, and the examination of Mr. Fordyce, it was
hated that he was to pay off 30,0001 by Lady Day,
to,oool. by the ssth of the next month, and the re-
maining 34.0001. by inn:rim:tits. This was in the
year 1780, 25 years ago. The next mention of Mr.
Fordyce was in the . eighth Report of the Finance
Committee : inflead of the balance being reduced. it
had increafed to ri,oool. and had ever Since remain-
ed a debt for which no intereft had been paid. In
1789, an affignment of his property was made to the
Lords of Sefton, hut he was to remain in poffeffion,
upon the goatod, that by managing it himfelf, he
would render it more produaive. Flee experience
of twenty-two years had brought forth nothing that
was calculated to increafe the opinion of hit !kill.—
From the year 1797, only Coool. had been paid.—
Such was the Mort hiltory of the tranfadion. Here
was 80,0001. due ►o the public for twenty years, and
no Rep taken to recover it. He believed it could be
proved that Mr. Fordyce was in poffetlion of a large
eftate in Scotland ; it had been his coralification for
that feat in Parliament, which he had only- 101 l by
being over lavifh of his money. He was as unwil-
ling as any man to prers this matter with precipita-
tion. He believed there had been much misfortune
in the cafe, but fill there ought to be limits to for-
bearance, and jultice thotild be dealt to all with im-
partiality. It ought to be recolleaed that the whole
of this money was taken out of the pockets of the
Public. Betides.. Mr. Fordyce hid been forced upon
the attention of the Houle by his Majefly's Minillers
having invelted him with a chars ter of public trait
and confidence. He highly difapproved of his ap-
pointment as a Member of the Committee of Enquiry
into the Rate of the Dock-yards. It was true thkt
the labours of the Committee had been very loccelt-
fill in deteaing frauds ; and a Noble Admiral had
laid, that if the Report of the Committee was cor-
rea, a third or what. was (pent in the Navy would
be fufficient for its maintenance. This was certainly
An important difecivery ; but what fecurity had the
Houle that it would bz followed up ? Was it to be
expelled thaw a 'man, whore exiftence was at the
mercy of the Crown, would be the rigid and faith-
ful fervant of the Public ? After fome further obfer-
vations, he concluded by moving—
.. That a Committee be appointed to enquire whether any, and
what facority had been given for liquidation of a debt of
81.6151. as. yid. which, by the raft Report of the Finance Com-
mittee, appeared to be due from John Fordyce. Efq. and, whether
an aflignmeat of his property and eftate was not made to the
Lords of Salon, as a fceurity for fueh debt ? Whether any of_
the profits of fuck property and eftate were applied in liquidation
of Such debt ? Aod whether any and what proceedings bed been
initkutedagainfi him or hit /roperty r
The CHANCELLO3 of the EXCHEQUER
Paid, the HOnourable Gentleman had conceded to
him, that the cafe of Mr. Fordyce was a cafe of mif-
fortune. Such was the opinion of Government, and
had been the opinion of thole who had removed him
from office. It had not been thought neceffary to
difetualify him. as a perfon unfit to ferve the public.
Nothing bad occurred which was at all unfavourable
to his charaaer. Subfequent to the period whin he
became in arrear to Government, he had been ap-
pointed to the laborious office of enquiring into the
landed property of the Crown. The refult of that
Commiffion- had introduced great pradlical reform;
and had been attended with important advantages
to the public. The lands of the Crown, which be-
fore.did not produce 6000). a year, were, by the skil-
ful management of Mr. Fordyce, railed to io,occol.
a year. The circutnßancea that led to his becoming
a debtor of the Crown were peculiarly unfortunate.
They :strife from the failure cf his agents in there
fucceffive it:fiances ; one of them, not felefted by
lrimfelf, but recommended to him by the late Mar-
quis of Rockingham. An event which increafed his
inability to difcharge his obligatiirs to Government
was the failure of Mr. Fordyce's Banking-houfe, by
which he la* 40,0001. No meafures of coercion had
been adopted by Government againft him ; firft,
becaufe he was confidered as entitled to compaffion ;
and fecondly. becaufe adverfe meafures would have
effected his ruin, and prevented the public from re-
ceiving what there was every reafon toexpea. There
had been paid soool. prior to 1
.797 ; fublequent to
that period 80001. had been difcharged, and
39,0001. was fecurcd to Government by Weft India
bonds, which would become due the nth days of

Match, July, ant Dee' ember, in the indent mt.—
Flavisg Rated that Mr. Fordyce, by his induary and
teeth. tad every profped of acquiring a confiderable
additiotrlo his property, and urged his public fer-
vices, he intimated, that if the Honourable Gentle-
man withdrew his motion, ht fhould himfelf lay be-
fore the Houk every doenthent co nnefted 'with the
fithjeft ; and he fubmitted that nothing further
I
could be neceffary than for the Houle to be n puffer-
fion of fuch accounts as would verity the rafts.
Mr. FOX laid, that in Mr. Fordyce's fituation, he
thought his appointment ought no; to have taken
place. He was one who difapproved of it, not be.
caufe of a blernith in his eharafter, but becaufe he
was in a fituation of dependance on Government.—
The obje& of the Commiffion might he precifely as
had been Rated by the lift fpcaker, but when tome
recent reports were confidered, it meat appear that
Mioillers might have rearm often to with to pervade
reports with their influence ; and was Mr. Fordyce
in any fituation to refill or controul the will of Go-
vernment ? He had not the honour to know Mr.
Fordyce—but how could he or any man aft with
that (tardy independence, efeatial to the charader of
reformer, if notorioufly in the power of the Govern.
ment If any other man were to do fo,•it would be
highly metitorious ; but it was cruel to place Mr.
Fordyce in fuch a flotation. The Houfe was obliged
to his Honourable Friend for bringing forward the
prefent motion, and Mr. Fordyce had no caufe to
complain. His Hon. Friend had moved for a Com-
mittee t- and the Right Hon. Gentleman propofed
giiing papers. He did not care which of thole
modes were adopted; either might well enough an.
Aver the purpofe in view. He owned that the cafe
of Mi. Fordyce was a cafe of pure misfortune. •He
happened to know that the appointment of his fira
agent (Mr. CockbOrn) was recommended in a very
bong manner by Lord Rockingham. The other
eireumilance, that of the failure of Mr. Fordyce the
banker, many who heard him were old enough to re-
member the effeas of it on the country, and affored-
ly it made a great impreffion at the time- He re-
membered an anecdote connected with this fubjed.—
The other day he was reading a letter of Mr. Gar-
rick's to a Gentleman in the Eall Indies where that
great performer Rates that the confequence of Mr.
Fordyce's failure was an adual defection of the two
Theatres and the Opera Houk. This Brewed that
the country was much richer now. If the died of,
that failure was fuch on luxuries, the effects of it al.
together mull have been very general; increafed. in.
deed. by the many failures which were the conk-
quince of it. If Mr. Fordyce had done all he could
to replace the deficiencies, there was much in the cafe
to induce favourable feelings towards him. The cafe
of Grenada was well known ; and if the profped of
lenity would operate to Rimulate Rill further his
zeal; activity, and diligence, not to prefs invelligation
or enquiry would not only be not mifehievousi but
would be beneficial. But the fads ought to be be
fore the Houle. The Hon. Gentleman had raid, that
the'papers Ihould be laid on the Table, and under
thole circumllances he was very indifferent which of
the modes, Was adopted.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in
explanation. Hated that Mr. Fordyce, as a member of
the IA Commiffion, did not all generally, but fpeci-
fically, with the view of applying the belt remedies
to cutting abufes in the naval department. That ap-
ilpointment he had received from the knowledge of the
former beneficial curdle of his talents in the fame
branch of the public fervice.
The SECRETARY at WAR declared that Mr.
Fordyce was nominated one of the fall Commiffioners
at the erten efs defire of Sir Charles Middleton, whore
profeffional talents rendered him the fitteß judge of
thole who were. the moll qualified to be hit colleagues
in an arduons and ntoil important talk.
Mr. JOHNSTON thought himfelf bound to vote
for this inquiry in the manner in-voted by his Hon.
Friend, upon the ground of public duty ; and he
thought that the Adminillration which had allowed
-theft accounts to remain fo long in the (late they were,
were guilty of profs negligence, and a dereliftion of
their duty. "As far as concerns myfelf," raid he,
" I feel the folly of what I have done on this occa
lion, but, if the conkquence will be advantageous to
the public. I Gall not regret the inconvenrence to
myfelf. 1 think the mode prepokd by my Honoura-
ble Friend preferable to that prepnfeti by the Right
Hon. Gentleman, and therefore I (hall vote for it."
Mr.CREEVEY was fatisfied. for the prefent, to
adopt the mode propofed by Mr. Pitt, as he might
hereafter move for further information, if what was
given fhould be defeltive, and therefore he withdrew
his Motion.

NAVAL
Mr. GREY gave notice that his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Kinnaird) now abfent, intended to fubmit to
the Houfe a motion on the fubjett matter of the rcth
Report of the Commiffioners of Naval Inquiry, next
Thurfday fortnight.

eh
underffood front the vote he meant to give this night, vs
chat it was his intention to refill any appeal to the at
opinion of the Judges upon this important cak. in
Lord AUCKLAND rote to reply. The Noble de
Lord obferved, in forcible terms, on the cruelty of ra
bringing the Learned Judge, whole cafe was under th
confideration, with his witneffes, from above four Iv
hundred miles dißance, tnanfwer fuchlerioiss charges re
as were alledged againft him, before the Houk had la
• fully deliberated and decided upon the proper mode la,
of rroceeiliog to invelligate thole charges. That de
code was net, he maintained, as yet difcovered—and w
be very much apprehetded that thould the Houle ju
proceed farther in the courfe recommended by the IN
opponents of his motion, their Lordthips would find I ne
themfelves in the aukward and degrading dilemma
of being obliged to retrace their Reps. th
The LORD CHANCELLOR in explanation, th
hated, that he, did not mean to infinnate that the rib- in
jea of this motion was to create delay, or to impede at
the progri.4 of the invelligation to which it referred in
—but he would beg Noble Lords to be affured, that hi
whatever impediments might be thrown in the way, be
this bulinefs Ibould not end until complete inflict th
was done between the country and the individual at
concerned.
Lord AUCKLAND nbferved, that if the Noble fie
*.ord who had jolt fat down meant to fay that tie iv
objea of his motion was merely to create delay, inch
I,2lllplage was not Parliamentary, and if the Noble P
Lord did not mean to fare°, his obfervation was al- at
together.unneceffary. In vindication of his motives C
for the propofition he fohmitted to the Houfe, he of
. mould only,mentinn that he had no kind of acquain. L
Lance whatever with the Learned perfon who was in
the (+Ned of thisinvelligation, and that he was adu-
ated folely by a fade of duty, and a defire to do
inflict. of
The queflion being put, a divifion W4S called for, ed
and the numbers were, for the motion—Contents in
17—Non Contents 29—Majority 12. la
On the re-admffGon of lb-angers, we found Lord th
Auckland on his legs giving notice of a motion upon at
- the fame fubjed for Monday next, for which day the th
Lords were, on the motion of Lord Granville, or- Pt
Atred to be fummoned. T 2
Ordered, on the motion of Lord Auckland, that in
the order for the attendance of witncires. &c. on the Ix
Rutter invelligation of Judge Fox's cafe, thould be al
pollponed till the 6th of May next. 11
NATAL tauter.
The Duke of CLA RENCE gave notice of his in- 14
tendon to move, on Tactility next, for the produeliou Fl
of farther gapers relative to the Report of the Com. 0
asiffinners For Naval Inquiry. ha
The Lords were, on the motion of his Royal ed
Frisbee-4 ordered to be fummoned for Tuefday.
Mr. T. Sraaxa brought up from the Commons L
Lprd Jnbn Thyane's indemnity Bill, which was read ill
a firft time, and ordered to be read a fecond time to- we
atorrow.—Adjourned at to o'clock. of
we
HODS!! OF COMMONS.Ft
Mr. Camadith Bradfiew took the oaths sad his feat. St
Ilk loan 1141.1.1A5T Amazasims brought up aDM to woad we
Mt • the {7th of Ms prefen Malefty, for regulating the pekes, nc
aid the making at broad, mad for the more effedieelly pealibing
. Imam adhodies Doha the fame—Read a Grit doss, suborder. pr
ad to be read a fecond time to-morrow. ef
Mr. How mos moved the order of the day for the third road
• hie err the Sugar Drawback Bill, which paired, and wee ordered be
maw Leak. I.
Me Lusk prefeured a paper imatainfog the mmllll4ol, of Jolla
Ipatts
ARAM. as Governor of the We of Man, which seas or- tit
timed to Se upari the table. in
Mr. Sr est c moved the order of the day. for the record reading be
et Lard Pea Thyran'a Indamualty Bill, which was then committed,
P 2
Sid mimed to be engrolred.
The CITA reccwia of the Excuartolte laid, as there was a no. ^f
tics Sealing fur this day, an Hon. Gentkinao oppokte, whom Pt
&braved in his place, and there were fermi other orders to be ill
dtitioleel of, he caked to polipone hie motion for the itedudtioa of ha
tie Militia till Tberfday next.
•Mr Fez gave notice. that he &add prefent the Catholic Pal. an
de o on Atones? neat. Plo
Sir Wss. Ileums moved, that the Paper. relative to the extent ini
If the Welt Podia wade with Ireland, and alto the& repeeting the di
Weft India wade with Great Britain, which bad been lately pre- fill
food to the Mae, thud be printed for the ore of the Members.
;Ordered. tai
The fecood reading of the BID for mutating the frith Fledtion, re
was, or the motion of Colood Bagwell, poftpoocal till Monday be
The !templet:idle Exchequer Bills NH was received—Ordered H
ea bused a third tike to morrow.
TRISM IMPORT DUTIES. CI
The 'rills Sugar Drawback Bill paged through a ml
Committee, and the Report was ordered to be reedit. ful
ed to-morrow. ea
Mr. FOSTER moved the order of .the day for a t:
Committee of the whole Houfe oa the Ira Excife
Duty Bill. •mil
Sir JOHN NEWPORT role to rugger' to the an
Right Hon. Gentleman the propriety of poßponing Lahe
t
the further confider etion of this Bill, on account of or
its being a meahire which bore peculiarly oppreflive
on the Ira, and from the (tort time which it had '
been before tbe-Houfe, it could not have undergone fai
that mature confideration which was neceffary in fax hit
Bills. It had been Introduced only on Saturday lag. for
e day on which the Honfe did not ufnallY fit, and ha,
when but few Members attended ; and it had been fro
read a fccond time on Monday. the (calve' of the dif
moon Saint of ll'eland, who, though he might have Nc
udluence enough to deltroy the venomous 'nature of to
upshots animals, had not the addicts to prevent the bet
impofition ofeteeruCtive taxes. In this meafore, no poi
protettion was afforded to the fubjeO, who was left lax
expofed to the rapacity of Excite Officers. He bad Co
come down to the Houle to-day with the exprefs in- any
tentioo of taking the fenfe of the Heufe upon the tub- to i
jea, having had no opportunity of doing it before, and for
be (uggelled the propriety of referring it to the fur- lid
then confideration of the Committee, who thould fit a y
at furl a time of the day. that it mighl have a fair op- a c
• prutunity of being fully dircuffed, before it palled Th
through the Houk, and was enailed into a law. fuc
The SPEAKER here called the Hon. Member to hi,
order. and obferved, that any order before the Honk. qu
that was likely to produce difcuffion. thould properly ins
be tulpended, that the notices of the day might be we
previouily difpoled of. wh
After a few words from Sir Jona Newyorr, bet
Mr. FOSTER agreed to withdraw the motion till bet
after the notices Should have been difpofed of. are
TMs PRINTISO RUSIIIISS. elf
Sir JOHN WILLIAM ANDERSON prefented cei
a Petition from a number of Matter Printers, praying has
for leave to prefent a Petition to the Honk for the Or
better regulation of their trade in future. The Peti- ast,
• time listed that in the year Okra, on the ground of bus