Star.
London, England, 1831-03-04 00:00:00

'I , .

be reversed it tt t hr. ('.!more. Lords, and King.-- (Hear. bear,
'.e.r.l The I 10.:.e Connroliv, as at present constituted, had arose
a most annwaln.z, alanncr, en Ty easy for theorists to condemn ; but
if all the attempts Trade So other countries had failed of producing its
equal, Le thetr;t:ht the formation of a superior constitution was beyond
the at of man, and that accident had contributed to give us that jewel
Is hitt] we were now about to throw away.—.(Hear, hear.) When the
toember fur IVestminster said that in a reformed parliament the people
w• old not send a different representation, it was pretty gond proof that
t4y ought not.—(Hear, hear.) He would only say of the
evuttitution proposed cy the noble lord, in which the peers
w0.1`..1 have no influence in that house, that it was not the con.
emotion under which we had hitherto lived. He was as
great a lover of liberty as any man in the country, but he feared
the desteuction of liberty from the too great extension of popular
power. How did any roan in the land feel aggrieved by the power of
the Peer= ? here they not all on equal terms in the Courts of ha.
lice ? 'T was true, the Peers had influence in that house, but what.
ever great popular feeling existed in the country rapidly found its way
into that house. There was at present a restlessness among the people ;
they did nor know exactly what it was they wanted, and 'the
:rouse were in much the same situation. Mr. Wyndham said the House
td Cott.a.ons only possessed the power of causing the people to pause
and think ; but must yield to the continuance of public opinion. If the
house had no power of resistance to the popular will, could they have
passed that great measure the Catholic Question ? The House of Com-
mons watched over every interest of the country ; none could he affected
that a committee was not formed to inquire and provide a remedy,
Vlr was the change now contemplated ? The whole influence of the
aristocracy was to go. But look to the case of France as respects the
late change in the representation there; with a body of only 32,000 vo-
ters, the sum of 601. per annum was required to entitle the voter to the
elective franchise, a sum he (Mr. B.) was sure he was correct in
estimating at about equal to 1001. in England ; and it would be borne
in mind that no proposition which ever had any countenance at all
amongst the reformers in France went below the sum of 401 as the
qualification—an amount equal to between 601. and 701. in this
country. He did not for a moment wish the House to suppose
that that was the standard of qualification he meant or wished to
tix —he only drew the attention of Honourable Members to
the fact, that France, in those days of excitement, had not come
so low respecting the qualifications of property as the present Cabinet
did by fie new measure of reform. which had been submitted to the
country. For his own part he had always been a moderate reformer,
and wished to see such large towns as Birmingham and Manchester re-
presented ; and, as respected Scotland, he was uniformly of opinion,
that it ought to possess a better mode of representation; but when he
said that Scotland would be beneflued by some alteration in its repre.
'tentative system, he did not argue that it was not represented either
actually or virtually in that house ; for his own part, be
never saw a Scotch question but was as pugnaciously defended, and
supported by the Scotch members, and taken up by the house with
as much interest as one relating to England or Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
Whilst, however. he said so much, he begged to state that he could
not agree with the honourable and learned member for Boroughbridge
(Sir C. Nretherell) that the three estates of the Constitution, King—
Lords, and Commons, could not alter the electoral law of the land.—
Now, as respects the money spent in elections, as far as concerned him.
self he could say, that though he had sat in that house for twenty-one
years, he had never spent one shilling in any of his elections, and would
not hf sitate to show all his accounts incurred in each of them, when it
would be seen that no remuneration whatever had been given to those
who voted for him ; and lie doubted not, if many of those pleas which
were to be disfranchised were looked into, they would be found in a si.
miler predicament, whilst others were to be left with all their impurities,
to die away with the present electors, with the exception indeed of the
absent freemen. He need only instance Sudbury and Shaftesbury, for
lie did not wish to go farther lest he should frighten sotne honourable
members. (A laugh.) He should ask the noble lord who had shown
such a disposition to throw open boroughs, if he could, with that act,
increase their purity, or the purity of the motives of the persons going
down to solicit the suffrages of electors. In short, there was no inquiry
made ; length of purse alone decided the question ; of course, there
trust be no great slur on personal character. But why, again he would
ask, was not the borough of Tavistock included in the list of places
cashieted by the noble lord ? Was it because it belonged to the Duke
of Bedford ; or, if it had been included, it would not have been, even if
the present measure were carried, as much the property of the uke of
Bedford as it was now ' - he was so certain of this that he would
assure the noble lord (Lord John Russell) of the fact for half-a-crown
per cent. He called upon his Majesty's Ministers to weigh well
in their minds that for the sake of making alterations they were
to cut off all the lower classes of society from any share in the
representation ; he should oppose any measure that brought with it the
disfranchisement of the lower classes, who did not seem to be considered
in the measure of the noble lord; it was his opinion that every man
ought to have a vote in the government and representation of the coun-
try, until it can be shewn that it is an injury, for the poor man, that he
should have that right in his own hand. But returning again to the
amount of qualification, if it was proper now, what was to be said as re.
spected the next twenty years, are they to be less disturbed than the
present ? If his Majesty's ministers are really looking for security,
they should recollect that the atmosphere was very cloudy, that troubles
we're abroad, and that they should make 151. a year the qualification
for the next twenty years, and 101. for the twenty years following. The
hon. member concluded by calling upon those who excited agitation in
the present times to look to the misery in Paris which followed the most
legitimate revolution that ever took place. He said so because he had
been told that unless the present measure was carried nothing short of a
revolution would take place in this country. The hon. member sat
down amidst loud cheering from the Opposition.

The Marquis of TAVISTOCK addressed the House. He said he
should delay the address of his Noble Friend but a very few momenta,
but after what had fallen from the honourable member who last ad.
dressed the house, he could not avoid taking the first opportunity that
presented itself of saying a few words. The honourable member seemed
to cast a reflection cn His Majesty's Ministers the not having included
the borough of Tavistock as well as Callington amongst those boroughs
which were to be disfranchised. (Cries of " No, no.") He certainly
so understood the Hon. Member. Now, in reply, he would say, that if
the Hon. Member would bring forward a motion to have Tavistock in.
eluded, it should have his cordial support. But if he abstained from
making such motion. greatly did he (the Noble Marquis) mistake the
character of the Duke of Bedford, if he should ever influence his
tenants in that place as to the manner in which they should give
their votes. The honourable Member said, that if he (the Marquis
of Tavistock) would give him a half-crown. he would ensure him the
return of two members for Tarlatock. Now, if the hon. member
would give him a half.crown, he would return him 20 half-crowns if
eve, the Duke of Bedford mile the attempt (Hear.) The hon. mem.
her complained of the line being drawn which included Tavistock and
excluded Callington. Now; without undervaluing the importance of
the latter place, he must say that it contained a population of 1,320
persons, while Tavistock contained upwards of 6,000—a population
greamr than that of Bedford; and he might also state, that that town
would be also left to itself, as far as respected any influence to be used by
the Duke of Bedford. As he was on his legs, he would now say a word as
to the question before the house, and his feelings with respect to it. It
appeared to hint that the Government of this country had for years been
carried on on principles of most unjustifiable and wasteful extra.l
vagance,—that patronage had been kept up for the purpose of main-
taining the influence of the Crown, and that which was known by par.
liamentary influence, for the purpose of carrying on measures against
the %ense of the country. The people felt now, more fully than at any
former period, that they had not their just Llfluence in the legislative
councils of the nation, and they naturally sought for that change which
would give it to them. He sincerely hoped and believed that the mea.
sure new before the house would have that effect, that it would give
them all they could reasonably desire. He hoped it would curb the ,
monopoly su long maintained by the higher orders, and give a fair cx.
pres.Mli of the tense of the middling classes. In this view of the mea-
sure, it should have his cordial support. (Hear.)
:Vt.. A. BA RING, in explanation. said, that from what fell from
the noble marquis, he feared that something had escaped him in the
ct•urse • f hht remarks which was personally offensive. (" No. no,"
flow the Opposition benches.) If he had said any thing which could
have teen so conntrued, it must have escaped him in the heat of debate,
atm be was sorry for it. (Hear, hear.) For the noble duke whose name
id, had used he had the highest respect, and it was only justice to him
to state that time was nothing in his high mind which could warrant
the imputation of obtaining undue influence by means of any measure
of government. He lead never meant to impute any thing of the kind
either to the ruble duke or to government, connected with the measure
before tlw house. (Neon)

Lord PALMERSTON (who was again loudly called for) now ad.
dressed ti.e house. He rejoiced, be said, that he had given way to his
noble friend (the Marquis of Tavistock), as it had created an opportu-
nity for the hon. men-her (Mr. A. Daring) to explain what might
otherwise have produced au impression that something was done by the
government in the framing of this plan out of deference to the views or
wishes of the house of Russell. Nothing of the kind could have been
expected nn the one side, or thouett of on the other ; and he was glad
the. the hon. member had the opportunity of declaring that he had
never meant to convey any such imputation. With what fell from the
hon. number in the beginning of his speech, he fully concurred.
He agreed with him in thinking that whatever subjects of impel.
canoe might have occupied the attention of the house at former pee
riods, there never was any subject of so much importance''
as that now submitted to its consideration. Many former
measures of great importance had been decided by their
single importance, and with reference to some past rips.
rience,—bnt the present measure could not be tried by any such test.

It was one which did not affect only one particular interest,--it would
effect the whole government and character of the country, not only now
but in all future ages. He did not affect, for a moment, to conceal the
difficulty with which the okeption was surrounded : if he did, he should
he unworthy of the place be held, and the part be took on this occasion;
for he must, indeed, he a bold or an unthinking man, who could ap.
putsch such a question without a due consideration of all the difficulties
with which it was encompassed,—who could propose to make such a
change in the constitution, which, with all its faults, had been produe.
tive of so many benefits to the country at largo. (Chews from the oppo-
sition benches.) He repeated, he must be a very bold, or a very
thoughtless man, who could propose such a change without the most
serious consideration of it in all its bearings. Fondness for change
was, he must say, not the character of the people of England. They
had always been remarkable for a tenacious attachment to their
national institutions, affording, in this respect, a striking contrast to
their next door neighbours, who were often dazzled and delighted by the
freshness and newness of their institutions, whilst in 01(1 England people
rejoiced in the antiquity of theirs. We well knew the great difficulty
of bringing the people to consent to a change in their laws,—how
strenuously many a hard.fought contest war maintained before they
could be induced to relinquish ceetain statutes—how long, and how
eagerly, the struggle was carried on during years of discussion, before
they could be brought to give up—first, the traffic in human beings,
and, at a later period, those laws which condemned a considerable
portion of the people to political degradation—he meant the penal code
affecting the Roman Catholics. When he saw in a people so unwilling
heretofore to consent to changeot now eager desire for innovation--a desire
not confined to itinerant demagogues or bow-window orators, but mani-
fested by large masses, including those of rank, and wealth, and station,
and influence in the country, demanding a change, we should come to the
conclusion that there existed in the country some great practical abuses
which called loudly for a remedy. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman
(Mr. Baring) said, that if the people were left to themselves, they
would be quiet, and not think of making such demands as the present
measure was intended to satisfy; and he added, that if the Goya rn-
merit, and the press, and the public did not pursue a fallacy, we should
not have heard so much of the cry for innovation. Now he must say,
that if the Government, and the press, and the public, were of opinion
that this innovation was necessary, it might happen that it was not a
fallacy. (Hear.) He contended that the people of this country sought
for a change, because the state of the country was such as to require
it. (Hear, hear.) Among the many instances which he could elm in
proof of that fact, he would for the present only mention one, that
they (the ministers) were now seated on those benches which had been
so recently occupied by honourable gentlemen opposite. (Hear, hear,
from the ministerial benches, echoed by those of the opposition.)---
hon. gentlemen might say what they pleased, but it war not the differ-
ence about the civil list—it was not the reduction of the salaries of some
half-eloaen offices, which caused the overthrow of the late administra-
tion. The rock which they split upon was their defiance of publieopi-
nion. (Hear, hear, from the opposition, followed by cheers from the
ministerial side.) They went on spreading wide the canvass of patro-
nage as they proceeded ; but that patronage, and the use they made of it
to accelerate their progress and increase their power, proved to be their
ruin. He would again repeat it, the besetting sin of the last adminis-
tration was a disregard of public opinion—of public opinion at home—
of public opinion abroad. (Cheers, and loud cries of Hear" from the
Opposition.) The error of the course they pursued (lid not unfortu-
nately end with their power t it had become the means of setting Eu.
rope in flames. He asserted that an obstinate adherence to the notion
that a few men in authority could succeed in bearing down
public opinion, had proved fatal to the late administration, and
he warned the house that the example might serve as a guard against
any such error in future, He would contend that if it were not for
the prudence and discretion and activity of two men,of his noble friend
at the head of the home department, and of the great firmness of the
noble lord at the head of the government of Ireland, we might now be
in a situation to be alarmed for the connection of the two countries—
(cheers from the opposition). Those who recollected what took place
in November last, and who considered the steps taken on that occasion,
would bear out his assertion ; and notwithstanding the cheers of hon.
gentlemen in opposition, from whom no very large support or approval
could be expected on such an occasion, he would repeat, that to the cir-
cumstances he had alluded, the country was much indebted for the tran-
quillity that now reigned in that part of the country; but he must at
the same time say, that all that the present Ministry had done would
have been unavailing if they had not been supported by public opinion.
What they had done, the late ministry could never have achieved, for
public opinion was decidedly against them. He said then, when public
opinion was so strong in favour of a change, it was the duty of govern-
ment to concede that change, in such a manner as not to impair those
advantages we had so long enjoyed. In looking at the nature of the
proposed changes, let the house consider some of the evils which it was
intended to remedy. What was it which for years had produced so
much misgovernment—so much disregard to public opinion ? The
gross bribery and corruption practised at elections, by means of which
parties rame into Parliament, and undue influence at elec-
tions for members of that house, by means of which
so many of them came in either without constituents, or only with
those whom they had purchased and might sell again. (Hear,
hear, hear.) When, then, by such practices the people were driven
to tear aside the veil of sanctity with which hereditary respect had
invested even the imperfections of the constitution, it was impossible
that they whose limited propositions of reform had been rejected, should
not be led to demand wider and more extensive changes. There were
many men in that house who wished things to remain as they were,
and who would be willing to bear the faults of the constitution for the
sake of its many excellencies. He would tell those people, that if now
they were driven to the necessity of choosing between a change which
they feared, and the evil co sequences which would arise from the re-
fusal of that change, the blame must rest on those who three years ago
refused to make even the smallest concession to public feeling. (Hear.)
If, three years ago, advantage had been taken of the conviction
of corrupt boroughs, to bring gradually into connection with
that house the great unrepresented towns,—if, Instead of drawing
nice equations between the manufacturing and the agricultural interests,
they had turned reformers on ever so moderate a scale, the house would
not now have been discussing a plan of general reform, proposed by his
noble friend, as his Majesty's paymaster of the forces. (Hear.) He
had supported all those pmposalsfor limited reform, because he thought
them good in themselves ; and because he clearly saw, chat if they were
refused, we should be obliged to have recourse to wider and more exten-
sive changes; but his predictions had been condemned and disregarded
by the honourable gentlemen opposite. For reasons similar to those
for which he then supported those limited propositions of Reform,
he was now prepared to support the more extensive measure
' which had been proposed by his noble friend. Taunts had been
thrown in the course of that night's debate against those who,
like himself, were the admirers of Mr. Canning. They had been
taunted for abandoning the principles which that great man had adopted
with respect to the important question of reform. He thought that the
events which bad taken place in that house since the lamented death of
that illustrious person, might have taught those who indulged in such
taunts, that public men might change their opinions on questions of
deep national concernment, without being influenced by any but honest
and honourable motives. (Cheers.) He should have imagined that
those who cast such reproaches, would have learned by this dine, that
public men were not justified in indulging what he called the puerile
vanity of consistency of opinion, if by so doing they might endanger
the great interests of the country. What Mr. Canning's opinion on
the question of reform would now have been, had he lived to the
present day, it was not for him to say ; but they were bad ex.
pounders of Mr. Canning's opinions, who looked for them in particular
sentiments, expressed at particular times, and did not scrutinise the
principles by which his public life was guided. (Hear, hear.) If any
man took a great and enlarged view of human affairs, without doubt
that eminent statesman did; and he would venture to say, that had Mr.
Canning lived in the present day, and stood in the same circumstances
in which he (Lord Palmerston) stood, his great genius would have at
once comprehended the necessity on which the opinions of the Govern-
, ment were founded, and would have stated to the house in his (Lord
; Palmerston's) belief the same ser.timents which he (Lord Palmerston)
was now expressing. If any honourable member wanted to learn the
opinions of Mr. Canning, let him refer to that speech delivered by
that gentleman in February, 1826, on the freedom of the silk trade,
•
~ when he expressed himself in a manner very applicable to the at
occasion--saying, "That those who resisted improvement, because it
r was innovation, might find themselves compelled to accept innovation,
when it had ceased to be improvement." (Cheers.) It was no longer
: in the power of the house to do, in 1831, what would have been easy in
1328--namely, to take advantage of the conviction of corrupt boroughs
to transfer the elective franchise, as occasions occurred, to the great ma-
nufacturing towns. A change of circumstances had made it necessary
' for government to prepare for the consideration of parliament a plan of
5 general reform. lie war aware that those who were wedded to the pre-
• sent system might denounce the proposition of government to be a re.
t volutionary measure, while those who sought to overthrow existing
establishments, and build on their ruins another system, of which
they aimed to be the rulers, would stigmatize it as insufficient;
r but he was convinced that those who admitted timely correction and
improvement to he the conservative principle of free institutions, would '
I look upon the proposition as well adapted to consolidate the fabric of
the constitution, and give it due consistency and strength.—(Cheers.)
I Any one who looked at the constitution ofmtheentdc
fects_representationvtiieonfotmhiis.
house, could not fail to be struck by five prominent
, nation boroughs,—the gross, general, and barefaced corruption which
prevailed, not only in small, but also in large places,—the want of
members for some of the greatest and most important manufacturing
towns,—the expenses of elections,—and the unequal distribution
among different classes of society of that power which resulted from
the exercise of the elective franchise. To all these defects the
plan of government applied sound and wholesome remedies.
it was impossible for any man to say that the existence of no-
' mination boroughs was consistent with the theory of the constitution,
according to which hon. members sat in that house as the represen.

tatives of the people of England. He did not deny that some of
those boroughs had afforded an entrance into the house to persons of
splendid talents and great capacity, who hail stireassally advocated
the rights and liberties of the people. But still It wad' impossible
for any plan of real reform to be devised, which did not have for
its foundation the total disfranchisement of the nomination boroughs.
Besides, without considerable disfranchisement, it was impossible to
provide for the other advantages which the plan of Gkwernment pro.
posed to accomplish. Every man would agree that the number of
the members of Parliament, if not too large, was huge enough ;
and unless some boroughs had been disfranchised, it would have been
impossible, without great inconvenience, to give representatives to
the manufacturing towns. Some honourable members had contended
that an unfair selection had been made of the boroughs to be disfran-
chised ; and the bon. member for Callington had insinuated that the
plan of Government had not been framed on general principles, but with
a view to save certain boroughs, and the borough of Tavistock among
the number. A most triumphant answer to such a charge had been
given by his noble friend (the Marquis of Tavistock), who had stated
that the population of Tavistock was 5,000, while that of Callington
was somewhere- between 1,000 and 2,000. For the further satisfaction of
the hon. member he could inform the house that there were 25 other
boroughs with a population between that of Tavistock, and the most
populous of the forty-seven half-disfranchised boroughs, which would
retain the privilege of returning two representatives. (Hear, hear.) It
was not the object of Government to sever the ties which existed
between the middle and lower claws and the aristocracy ; and they did
not think that their proposition would have any such effect. They did
not wish to put an end to that influence which arose from good conduct
on the one hand, and respect and affection on the other, but to unreason.
able submission to naked authority. The Honourable Member (Mr.
Baring) had stated, in the early part of his speech, that the proms.
sition of Government would effect a real as weU as a theoretical se-
paration of the two !louses of Parliament, and that the influence of
the aristocracy would be excluded from the House of Commons: but
the Hon. Gentleman, in the latter part of his speech, proceeded to
answer his own objection ; and stated, that not only the Duke of
Bedford would retain as much Parliamentary influence, but that even
he (the Honorable Member for Callington) would still have it in his
power to return the Member for Callington. He (Lord Palmerston)
maintained that the proposition of Government would not destroy the
wholesome influence of the aristocracy—that influence which was ob-
tained by eminent conduct, by moral and intellectual distinction, and
by exercising towards their inferiors those qualities which secured the
affections, and gained the admiration of men. The plan of Government
would introduce to a share in the Government of the country the great
body of householders—that is, the great bulk of the middle classes of
the kingdom. An hon. and learned gentleman (Mr. H. Twiss) had
chosen to make himself merry at the expense of the middle tissue.—
(" No, no." and cries of " hear.") He was pleased to say, that shop-
keepers, small attomiee, innkeepers, and publicans, were totally unfit
to enjoy any share in the representation. (Loud cries of " No, no,
no.") He could assure honourable members that he was not speak-
ing front memory, for he had taken down the honourable and
learned gentleman's words (hear.) But he would ask the hon. and
learned member, in what respect were the potwallopas more fitted to
choose representatives than respectable shopkeepers and attornies ?
(hear, hear.) An hon. member (Mr. Baring) had asked why, if it
were considered dangerous to trust the potwallopers with the elective
franchise beyond 20 years, not disfranchise them now ? The answer
he gave to that question was, that though the government thought that
that description of voters should be extinguished, yet they did not see
such danger In the present electors continuing to exercise the elective
franchise, as to induce them to take that right away during the lives of
those who now possessed it (hear.) He believed that the proposition
would prove satisfactory to the country; and notwithstanding the taunts
which had been thrown on the middle classes, he believed there did not
exist in any country a body of men more entitled to respect ar.d confi-
dence than the middle classes of this country. (Hear, hear.) He would
venture to say that there never was a class of men more distinguished
for morality and good conduct, for intelligence and love of order, for
true loyalty to their King, for affection to the constitution, and,i in
case of need, for devotion to their country. (Cheers.) He considered
it would be one great and main recommendation of the plan of Govern-
ment that it gave to the middle classes an interest in the Government of
the country, from which they had been so long excluded. The noble
lord next alluded to the great expenses attending elections, arising from
gross and disgusting bribery, and stated that this cause of expense was
to be removed by the introduction of a respectable and honest body of
voters. He did not agree with an honourable member that it was
worse for electors to sell their votes titan the proprietors of boroughs
to sell their seats in parliament, because corruption on such a large scale
had a tendency to destroy respect for the institutions of the country,
and demoralise the whole population of the place where it prevailed.—
An hon. member had stated that there was no necessity to give repre-
sentatives to the manufacturing towns, because they possessed virtual
representation; but he (Lord Palmerston) asked, why should not, then,
small boroughs be contented with similar representation ? The manu-
facturing towns required something more than virtual representation,
considering how often parliament was called upon to legislate on matters
affecting the interests of the commercial portion of the country, It
was, therefore, desirable that they should possess representatives
with whom they could directly communicate, and in whom they
placed confidence. (Hear.) To the manufacturing towns, then, it was
intended to give 34 members, and to preserve the just preponderance of
the landed interest,' it was proposed to add 55 to the county members.
Besides, all persons who had votes in towns would not be entitled to
vote in counties, so that the representatives of counties would be even
more exclusively than at present the representatives of the agticultural
interest. We looked on the landed interest as the surest foundation on
which rested the fabric of the state, and the institutions of the country.
Ile meant no disparagement to .he manufacturing and commercial
classes. He was perfectly aware that they were indispensable to
the happiness and prosperity of the country; and that, without
them, land would lose its value. But the House must not
forget, that the soil of the country was the country itself.—
With reference to what had fallen from the hon. member for Calling.
ton (Mr. Baring), he would add, that under the present system, it
was not Went that procured a man a seat in that house, but length of
purse,—the ability to pay agents and post horses up to the fourteenth
day. This was a great and practical evil, and this evil the bill would
prevent. The great and leading principle of the bill was, that it
would alter the distribution of the different classes, and bring the'
middling classes into communion with the others. The present
system did not give the middling classes an adequate share in the
representation. He was convinced that the majority of the
house would concur in the bill, as a measure adapted to pro.
mote the public good. There might be men who thought that
the weight of public opinion might be cast out of account on this ques-
tion, miscalculating the working of that opinion throughout the coun-
try. There might be men who thought that a vote of that house might
change the opinion of the country, or that Government might bid de.
fiance to that opinion, and refuse to comply with it. He trusted that
the number of such persons, end of those who acted as they did, would
not prove to be a majority of the house (hear), as it might lead to se.
rious consequences. There were, however persons who thought that
the Bill would satisfy the country, and unite all classes in its favour;
and he trusted that, in the decision the house was about to come to, the
truth would prevail.
Mr. BARING rose to explain, but the confusion created by the pre-
vious rising of Sir Robert Peel prevented a word of the explanation be-
ing heard.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said he should begin by assuring his noble
friend (Lord Palmerston) that one part of his speech, which related to
his own personal situation, was wholly unnecessary to him ; for if his
noble friend had not thought it necessary to explain the grounds upon
which he was this night prepared to adopt a course so different from
his own, even from his silence he should have drawn no unfavoura-
ble conclusion. He begged his noble friend to believe that he did
not join in the taunt against him. He (Sir R. Peel) had been
placed in the same situation ; he had found it necessary, from a due
regard to the principles which had always regulated his conduct,
to adopt a different course from that which he had formerly adro.
rated ; and he, therefore, ought to be the last man to refuse the
indulgence of which he had stood in need to public men who
were placed in a similar situation.—(Hear.) He never would believe
that public men did not look to higher motives than a desire to retain
their plates, when they were induced to change their opinions, and the
character, the views, and the conduct of his noble friend afforded a suf.
ficient guarantee for the purity of his motives. Having thus imitated
the generous custom which prevailed even in less dignified encounters—

having, as he might say, shaken hands with his noble friend, by relies,.
log himself from any suspicion of personal hostility in what he should
say, the noble lord would not be dis pleased, if, with perfect fde om of
discussion, he subjected his speech to some observation and comment.
At a time when the house had been expecting that some member of
his Majesty's government would give some explanation of this mea-
sure, at a moment when the house wished to know, not what
was the public opinion of it, but what practical ground could
be alleged for the adoption of what might be called a
new constitution, the noble lord bad, instead, thought proper
to institute a personal comparison between the merits of the last and the
present administration. (Hear, hear.) That part of his noble friend's
speech had consisted of sarcastic allusions to the conduct and opinions
of the late Government—and of attempts--and not very successful ones
(hear) to magnify the present administration at the expense of the pre-
ceding. (Cheers.) " See," said the noble lord, " what we have done.
I very believe," said the noble lord, " that if there bad not been a
change in the government, this great measure would not have taken
place." He (Sir Robert Peel) would not pursue a similar course.—
No party hostility should prevent him from doing justice where he

thought there was merit, and giving praise where praise wits due._
(Hear, hear.) He admired the course of the present Home Deport.
meat ; he admired the conduit of the noble marquis now at the heac,
of the Irish Government ; ever since he had resumed that
office, he bad seen nothing in his conduct but what entitled
him to praise and admiration ; and he believed there was so much truth
in what bad been said by his noble friend, that had the late adininis.
tration been in office, they would not have been able to effect what had
been effected there by the present administration. (Hear.) But would
they have had the same assistance ? (Loud cheers from the oppose.
don.) Would they, if they had introduced the measures which had
[ been adopted by the noble marquis, called upon to adopt them in a time
of great public excitement, have found all party feelings giving way to
considerations of public policy, and united all in the general support of
[ the government, in order to defeat the efforts of individuals to disturb the
prosperity of the country? His noble friend—he would not enter deeply
linto the comparison,—but his noble friend must recollect, that with
respect to Ireland, that very instrument, which had been wielded
by the noble marquis with characteristic vigour and success, es;
an; instrument which had been placed in his hands by the late ad.
ministration (Hear) contrary to the opinion, and contrary to de
votes, of many members of the present administration ; and that it
the late Government had been, in their attempts to maintain the
peace of Ireland, somewhat impeded by the violence of local and
internal force, it was not the late Government that commenced the
reduction of the yeomanry. (Hear.) In his anxiety to find cause for
blaming the administration which had preceded the last, his noble
friend had said, that if, in 1828, that Government:had consented to
transfer the elective franchise from East Rctford to Birmingham, the
house would not now have been discusairg the necessity for a ge.
neral reform; for that that single measure would have quieted
the apprehensions of the people, mid have satisfied them. (Hear,
hear, hear.) But if from such small events such mighty result.
would spring—if the transferring the franchise from East Ret.
ford to Birmingham would have been so satisfactory to all classes of the
community, that there would now have been no necessity for reform, it
was incumbent tupon the house to inquire' what was the paramount
consideration under these circumstances, which rendered it imperative
to change the constitution of the country. His noble friend said, Why
did you not consent to the disfranchisement of East Raked ?" Unless
he (Sir R. Peel) mistook not, his noble friend and himself entered the
house together au that thud night which led to the dissolution of the
late Government, and his noble friend and himself had intended to
give their votes on the same side upon that evasion ; but the effect of
a taunt upon his late right honourable friend (Mr. If uskisson)
had compelled him, in obedience to his feelings, to deviate front
the course which he had intended to adopt, and which, out of a sense of
honour, led him to tender his resignation. But, said his noble friend,
s' if you had transferred the elective franchise from Let Retford to Bir.
mingham in 1828, there would not have been the least necessity for Re-
form now." (Cries of " No," answered by cheers from the opposition.)
Would his noble friend have rested satisfied, in the resent state of the
representation, with the five grand detects in it which he had enume-
rated, and would he not have thought it his duty to come forward and
rescue both parties, the representatives and the represented, from the
effects of the corruption he had described ? His noble friend had
lamented that the voice of Mr. Canning could not be heard in that
House, and had assumed that that voice would have been
raised in favour of the plan of His Majesty's present Government.
—(Hear, hear.) It might be so. (ion grant that he was here
GOD grant that that voice might now be raised in that house, convinced,
as he was, that it would be raised to confound the fallacies and sophis.
tries by which the public mind was deceived. If Mr. Canning had
lived, and had changed his opinions on this question, he would have
had the manliness to avow the change. But no expression of Mr.
Canning, no passage in his brilliant speeches,carried the slighter,: indi-
cation that such change had taken place as his noble friend had sup.
posed. Where had his noble friend found the proof that sr. Can.
ning had changed his opinicns on the subjectof reform ? IPhy, in a
speech which he delivered on the silk trade in 1827 (heat.) In 1827,
a year after the alteration of the silk trade, Mr. Canning, when
sitting on the bench opposite, backed by the support of a large pvty
in the house, upon the question as to what was to be done with the
franchise of Penryn, Mr. Canning, against the dictates of his own
judgment, submitted to be left in a minority of his friends around him,
on a questiontwhethes the franchise of Penryn should be thrown into
the hundreds, or transferred to Manchester. (Hear, hear.) Thus,
when his noble friend threw out imputations against public men, a ten.
dernesa for the fame of Mr. Canning had induced him to vindicate his
memoty. He now came to the tremendous question before the house ;
but before he approached the consideration of it, he must confess that he
was afflicted with great pais and humiliation, beyond any thing h•-.
bad ever experienced in considering a question of this description.—
He was asked, be would not say to make a revolution in the
country, but to substitute for the present system a different
[ constitution (loud cheers); and he was not invited to do this
after a calm and dispassionate enquiry, but to take this luau
step by an appeal to motives, which if he acted upon, he should
not be subjecting his fears to his judgment, but his judgment to his
fears. (Hear, hear.) Before he proceeded further, be would ask why
the King's name was introduced in this discussion ? Why had it been
stated in another place, that this plan had received the particular sane.
tion of the Ring? As to the reference that had been made to the
discussion on the Catholic question, the cases had no similarity.
On that foccasion it had been publicly slated that the measure had tor.
the sanction of the King, and the ministers had then no alternative but
to declare that the measure was brought forward with the sanction
of the King. But when a measure like this was brought forward by
the administration' was it necessary, day after day, in both housta
of Parliament, and in the public press, to state that this men
sure, which must have received the approbation of His Majesty, was
brought forward with the express sanction of the King ? He (Sir. R.
Peel) held it to be no imputation upon his respect and loyalty to the
Crown, if he disregarded the intimation that the King had sanctioned
this measure, and if. as a member of Parliament, he exercised his
judgment on the merits of the question as unreservedly as if no such
intimation had been given. (Hear, hear.) But he regretted on other
grounds, that the name of the King should be thus obtruded day
after day. (Hear, hear.) He could not dismiss from his mind
doubts as to the justice and expediency of this extreme measure
of disfranchisemeut ; (hear, hear): but granting that they did
exist, still it ass a harsh measure towards the loyal bodies
who were called upon to sacrifice privileges which they had long elm.
deed ; and even if it was justly introduced, why should the King be
held out as the special author of the plan ? He (Sir H. Peel) had
thought the King had ban the fountain of grace and favour; but it
seemed as if this plan of extreme disfranclisement was to be receive y
the house, and not to be dissented from, under the terror of its being hi.
troduced with the King's express sanction, if not at the King's sugg,s.
don. Then the house was menaced with dissolution. (Cheers) The
chances of dissolutiou were as strong if the measure was carried as it
it failed. He (Sir R. Peel) cared nut if the house were dissolved cr
not; nor should he be fit for the performance of a single legislative
duty, if he permitted any such menace• to influence him. He cared
not whether he was returned again or not ; but if he telt am,
anxiety on this head, he would go to his constituents with the Fill
his hand, and he would place his special ground on their nnewed confi-
dence upon his determined opposition to i:. He would go to a com-
munity whale numbers, by the return of 1821, were not more titan
4000 inhabitants, and he would tell them that this bill had been brought
in without any allegation of necessity, or without any case being matte
out against them, and that he had opposed it. He knew they had nev.r
abused their rights; that the humblest man amongst them, never re•
ceived or naked a bribe for the vote they gave. They had received hire.
when they had been subjected to the indignity of expuhier.
foe what he conceived to be a special act of duty, even
to that church of which he at all times was an humble mem-
ber. (Hear, hear, hem.) They had then returned him as their repre-
sentative; and till the necessity of the measure was established by
more cogent arguments than he had yet heard, he would not consent to
deprive them of their right. But he was told that he must adopt this
measure, as the alternative was civil commotion ; he was to he *cared
from the exercise of his deliberate judgment on a peculiarly samples
and important question, by the apprehension of a massacre, for such was
the picture given by the lion. memb: r for Caine. But why should In
(Sir R. Peel) not have the same privilege of exercising the same judg-
ment on this bill as the hon. gentlemen on the aches side had done wk..
they voted against the bill of the noble lord last year ? They did not think
that when they rejected that bill it implied an aversion to all reform.
Upon the same principle, those gentlemen rejected the vote by ballot;
and why was he not at liberty to discuss this bill? He would say to
ministers—" Don't thift from your own shoulders the weight of re-
sponsibility which attaches to the proposal of such a measure;
don't say ,we will prime our capacity to govern, but boast rather c:
your ability to destroy." (Cheers.) He at least bad not tact
one who industriously excited the stormy wave of multitude,—
who employed all hid faculties to create dissatisfaction and disconte: t.
(Hear Hear.} He at least had never uttered the language ef a
noble lord in 1827, who found the people peaceful, quiet, and
contented, and complained that he could not rouse their indignation
against the constitution of the House of Commons,—who grieved
[ that they were so apathetic as to prove " deaf to the voice of the
charmer, charm he never so wisely. (Hear.) lie at least had neve:
called for a list of the names of 115 privy councillors, in order :e.
direct against them the full torrent of popular displeasure and mein'
meat, on account of the remuneration afforded to their services.
(Hear.) Neither had he ever instituted any invidious cunt?:.
risons between the great naval commanders and the eisiltaile
who presided over the Admiralty. Neither had he instigiied
and encouraged any body of men to display, under the very sex-
dows of the seat of Government, a foreign emblem of revertant r
(Hear.) He had never been the person to excite the people to a pitch
ofphrensy, to spur their bay indifference to an emulation it
revolutionary clamour. If, therefore, this measure, which common
prudence would have forborne introducing at such a crisis in our fortagn
and domestic relations, when fresh causes of excitement ought to be
cautiously avoided,—if, he said, this extraordinary measure should be
defeated, he would never allow that the responsibility of the disappoim•
went could attach to hint, or to any other individual member of that
house. (Loud cheers.) Reference had been made in the course of de-
bate to a supposed intentional disparagement of the middle clews. en