Star.
London, England, 1831-10-01 00:00:00

VZITILIES IZGULATIOX BILL.

Mr. HUM ICpre-- ientedapeiiiiotiiriraTikaneras in fa-
vour of this Bill.
Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE moved that the House resolve
into a Committee on the Bill.

Colonel LINDSAY observed that much difficulty had
been experienced in consequence of the declaration made by
the Honourable Member for Middlesex, on presenting a
former petition on this subject, that he would pay no more
rates imposed by a .elect Vestry. Indeed, the Honourable
Member had stated that he had refused to pay the rates;
but the collector had Wormed him (Colonel Lindsay), that
such was not the case, and that not only did the Honourable
Member for Middlesex pay his rates punctually, but also
with perfect good.humour. (Laughter.) The Select Vestry
with the principle of the bill.
Mr. HUMt. observed that he certainly had been mare.
presented on the occasion referred to. He had never said
that he would not pay his rates. What he had said was, that
the people of the parish in which he resided had refused to
pay a rate made by a alf-eleeted and irresponsible body, and
had even suffered dam/elves to be distrained upon rather
than consent to a demand which they, to common with all
other parishes in the metropolis nada the control of a select
vestry, regarded as illegal. The parishes of Mary-la-bonne
and lsling.on had bola tome to the determination of resist.
lag rates made by the select vestries, and to speak the truth,
the dissatisfaction that obtained in parishes amounted to
almost civil war. It was high time that some measure should
be adopted to restore quiet.
Mr. HUNT wished to ask a question of the Under-Se.
cretary of State for the Home Departmen., whether any
inquiry had been made, or proceedings adopted, relative to
a pauper of the name of Somers, who, on a late occasion,
when brought before Mr. Walker at Lambeth-street, had
been sent to the House of Correction, to hard labour, and
bad died, according to the verdict of the jury, from starva-
ion.
Mr. LAMB stated, that the inquiries he bad made sada.
God his own mind that, although the individual referred to
bad died from starvation, it was sot in consequence of the
refusal of assistance by any perish officer.
The House then went Into Committee oa the Select Ves-
tries Bill; Mr. STIPB2IIIOIIt in the chair.
Lord ALTHORP moved, as an amendment, that in
place of a simple majority, two.thirds of the parish should
be had in its favour before the introduction of this change
was to be considered obligatory in any parish.
Sir J. C. HUB HOUSE stated, that it would be most
difficuh to gain such a majority as two-thirds in any parish
upon almost any subject, and be, therefore. hoped that the
amendment would not be pressed. A simple majority, he
submitted, was all that should be required. He had been
recommended by some to make the bill imperative upon
every parish, but thinking that Impracticable, be wished
every facility to be afforded to its general adopt Ms. He
particularly spoke of the impossibility of securing the at•
tendance of two-thirds of the parish ; at the ism times be
was quite sure that till the representative system was adopted
In parishes' there would be no tranquillity in them.

Mr. J. CAMPBELL considered the select vestry system
was fruitful in jobbing, and detestable in itself. Continued
encroachments and complaints were produced by it, and the
sootier a complete mid final end was put to it the better.
Lord A LTHORP said no man could object more atrawsly
than be did to the disgraceful system of the close vestries. It
was certainly, therefore, in his view, desirable that a myosin
much less objectionable should be adopted ; in some area,
however, it appeared that close vestries did actually week
well, and *here an extensive alteration in Oa emirs hial
system was proposed, it would be well, be thseghtrersap.
probation of a great majority of the pada IMO ebtalmed
to its introduction. 'This was the pdadipless which
hisrviarendment proceeded. Heald he did net wish le was
his amendment, but he thought there ought to be a decidedly
majority to approve the alterations that might be car-
ried into erect in obedience to this bill.

Sir J. C. HOLIHOUSE observed that this Bill did not
in any way alter the constitution of the parishes--the origi-
nal Bill did; but all that this Bill secured was, that those
who had the expending ache money of the parish should be
chosen by the parish.
Mr. C. FERGUSON submitted that a fair majority would
be sufficient; two-thirds would be too much. The Bill
would effect a most valuable change.
Mr. LAMB supported the amendment. Let it be reeol-
lected that if the majority should only be one it would be
establishing the system for all time to come.
Mr. HUMS hoped the Noble Lord would not persevere
in his amendment. It would be extremely difficult to get
the majority of two-thirds in any parish to vote in favour of
any change, so completely were the parishioners under the
controul of the Stlect Vestry.
Mr. PROTHEROE deemed the Select Vestry system so
abominable, and so contrary to the principles of all good go-
vernment, that he would have the bill introduced Into every
parish upon a bare majority.
Mr. HUNT toot the same view.

Lord ALTHORP did not wish to press his amendment
against the general sense of Hon. Members.
Mr. HYNG thought the most straightforward and honest
way was to allow all rate-payees to have a vow.
Lord ALTHORP was quite satisfied that there ought at
least to be a decided majority of the parishes in favour of the
change be ore It was introduced.
Sir J. C. BOHR MAR explained. He begged to repeat
that the bill did not propose to alter the constitution of pa.
rishes so much as was supposed, although the original bill
did. The change would only be partial at first, but pro.
passive. Even when it was introduced the former vestry
would still remain in office, at least they would only go out
by thirds every succecding year, so that it would be four
iears, even where the bill was adopted, before it would come
nto full operation. The main object proposed by the bill
was, that eacb parish should have the power of choosing
those who were to rate them.

Sit C. WETHERELL objected to the bill, as allowing
persons who paid a rate of a few shillings only, the same
power and the same privileges as those who paid as many
pounds. It could not be said that that was equalising the
interests of the inhabitants of a parish. In many parishes
it was not the practice to put into the rate the very inferior
tenants. but this bill would give 100 voters, of lis. a-bead
each, the same power and interest as 100 persons paying as
many pounds.
Mr. HUNT was in favour of the Bill, but he was con-
vinced that good order would not be restored in any
until Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act was wholly
(Cries of Question.)
Mr. CAMPBELL had beard it laid down by Lord
Tenterden over and over again, that by the common law
of the land every rate-payer should be entitled to vote in
parish affairs.
Sir G. WARRENDER thought the amendment a most
wise one.

Sir C. FORBES said there was such a struggle for power,
that soon no man would be able to end $ quiet corner in
which to bide hhusclf. _

Sir R. V YVYAN disapproved of the select vestry sys-
tem. but though to a certain extent an Anti.Refouner, be
should not oppose this Bill, which gave to the rate-payer
the power of voting for the election of vestrymen.
Mr. PROTHRROR and Mr. HUNT said, u two.
thirds could never be obtained, they hoped the amendment
would not be pressed, because, if it were, it would defeat the
bill.

Mr. ESTCOURT said this was a new measure ; and as
that was the caw, be thought it would be advisable to adopt
the calm and cautious mode proposed by the noble lord.
Mr. ROBINSON also thought that they ought to pro-
ceed cautiously. and, that they certainly ought to esta-
blish the nemmity of the majority being somewhat between
the half and two thirds.

Tbe gallery was then cleared for a division. The num-
bers were, on the original motion,
Ayes ... ... 37
Noes ... ... 62

Majority ... lib
During our absence, it was proposed, we understood, that
the majority required be three.fifths.
Sir J. HOBHOUSE said, if the amendment which bad
been, in feet, carried by the division stood, he expected be
should be required to withdraw the Bill.
Lord ALTHORP only wished that in the experiment
there should be something more than a mere majority, he
therefore supported the proposition for requiring the sanction
of a majority at at least three-fifths.
Tnis amendment was eventually carried.
Sir R. VTVYAN suggested an amendment, that the
votes should be according to the property, on the ptindple
adopted by Sturges Bourne's Bill.
LORD ALTHoRP opposed it t he did not see why
then should be any difference between these votes and votes
foe assenbers of parliament.
Mr. NUMB also resisted the suggested amendment ; the
pot man's property was of as much cons‘quence to him as
if he were a rye man.

Sir R. VYVTAN said be should withdraw the amend-
ment, sod that be would propose it in another stage, if he
thought, on consideration, that was requisite.
Amendment withdrawn.
Mr. HUME suggested an amendment, that in the event
of a decision being in favour of change in the Parish Vestry,
it should not be acted upon unless confirmed by a subse-
quent Vestry called within a week.
It was agreed to after some conversation.
Mr. MILES proposed as en amendment, that tbe per.
sons entrusted to dispense certain charitable funds in the
city of Bristol, should be exempted from the operation of the
Vestry Bill.
Mr. PROTHE ROE opposed this proposition, observing
that so decidedly was Bristol in favour of the Bill, that the
late Members lost their election, as much =account of their
resistance to this Bill as to their opposition to the question
of Refcem.—(Hear, bear )
•
After some conversation,
Mr. HUNT, in an explanation, said, that In 11111, be
having had occasion to petition this House in mem of an
e ection for Bristol, by wins of a warrant frets the Spam
of the House, what no one bad ever done elesinsd
access to the archives of the city, and he dim end
made extracts, which showed that the fads of several cha-
rities that bad been left to be distrlbsted M pow people by
the Lady Mayoress of Bristol, bad not bun @Mimi to those
purposes ; and in other cams be saw shot *ski funds bad
been applied for political purposes.
Sir C. WETH KRELL replied, and said he (Mr. Hunt)
was bound to acknowledge that such a cheep could not be
applied to any existing Lady Mayans these twenty years
for he (the Learned Baronet) would assert, that if the
whole money was not appropriated, the remaining balance
was carried forward to the general account of the faiths-
don.

Mr. HUNT refused to retract what be had mid, or to
make any apology.
The intendment was then withdrawn, and the clauses
agreed to.—The report to be brought up on Monday neat.

TUE &AMR MILL.

Lord ALTHORP meved the Order of the Day for the,
House to take into consideration the Game Amendment
13111.--The Order of the Day being read,
Lord ALTHORP said that he approved of some of the
amendments adopted by the House of Lords, and trusted
that they would be sanctioned by the House. If they were
DM adopted, it would be impossible to peas the Bill into a
law this session.--(Hear, bear.) He thought it would be
unwise to reject those amendments, considering the present
state of the law as there would be many opportunities to re-
vise them. He moved that those amendments be agreed to.
Mr. berjeant WILDE said that some of the amendments
evinced a total disregard to the rights of property.
After some dismission,
Mr. HUNT farmed his Westin to divide the house
upon the clause relating so poaching.
The gallery was dossed
For the ekuse .
Against It
MaieritY - • • —44
Upon our re.adstimion to the pllay, we found Sir B.

Soon= protesting against that &use granting the tight et
the game to the landlord.
After a few words from Lord ALTRORP, Mr. Hsu.
and others, the amendments were agreed tot

SUPPLY.
The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. S. RICE moved a vote of 120,0001. in payment of
certain salaries, allowances, pensions, and services, for whicL
no prmiske bad been made in the civil list. Agreed to.
Sir J. GRAHAM moved a grant of 27,0001. for the
completion of the Victualling-yard at Gosport, in addition
to the sum already voted far that purpose. He might have
supplied the deficiency by converting to the completios of
the yard sums voted for other purposes; but be preferred
applying to parliament to make an addition to its former
grant, as he considered that the public money should be cep.
plied only to the purposes for which it was voted. ( Hear.)
The deficiency chiefly arose from errors In the estimato,
recurrence of which would be prevented by artain alterations
and checks which he intended introducing into the mod: of
keeping the Admiralty accounts.
After a few words from Mr. Hume, Sir J. Graham, Mr
Maberly, Sir J. Cockburn, and Sir J. Newport, the vote sat
agreed
The House resumed. Report to be received on Mondip
next.

rue BANKRUPTCY SILL.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in rising to move the
second reading of the Bankruptcy Bill, observed that it W3S
thought that very great grievances existed in the bankruptcy
department, and consequently it was thought necessary t..
apply a remedy to thole grievances. A Committee sat in
1817 to Inquire into the subject, and an able practitioner in
bankrupt cmos, Mr. Cullen, on that occasion proved before
the Committee the urgent necessity of amending the system
altogether. It appeared to that Committee that any thing a 34
better than a Commission of Bankruptcy. The Honourable
and learned member here read extracts from the evidence of
Mr. Cullen on that occasion, which went to condemn the
present system of managing bankruptcy business. The hoc.
and learned member then explained the provisions of the
bill, one of which was, that the Lord Chancellor would re-
ceive MON. a year out of the suitors' fund in lieu of fees,
which were estimated at 7,0001. It further provided that the
Lord Chancellor's retiring pension was to be 0,0001. a year
instead of 4,0001. •in consequence of his giving up so large a
share of patronage. He was authorised to state, that one of
the most experienced Judges in Westminster Hall would
preside in the New Conti established by this Bill. The
Chief Judge of the Court was to have a salary of 3,0001.
a year, the other three 20001 and the rest of the Commis-
sioners a salary of 1,5001. each. The entire amount of the
11 salaries would be 16,0001. The official assignees were to
be paid a poondage on the dividends. The Honourable and
Learned Clentletnao concluded by moving the second read-
ing of the Bill.
Sir C. WETHERELL did not think that his Hon. and
Learned Friend bad made oat a sufficient case to call upon
this Heuer to agree to this Bill.
After some observations from Sir E. Stunsam, the further
debate was adjourned to Tuesday next ; and the other
Orders of the Day having been disposed of ; the House ad-
journed at Half-past One o'Cloct.

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE.

'GERMAN PAPERS—THIS DAY.
Posex, SEPT. 21.—The Poses Gazette gives
the following details of the reoccupation of Kalisch,
by the Russian troops, which has already been
mentioned : " Pietrowski, the leader of the Polish
detachment, found no difficulty in repuliing the
small detachment of one hundred and fifty cavalry,
under Colonel Katasow ; left by General
Knorring, when he marched by the way of
Petrikau to Krasriowice, in order to restore order
in all parts of those provinces. The Russians,
however, did not retreat till after an action, in
which one staff officer, three officers, and 16 pri-
vates, were taken prisoners, when they returned
by way of Konin to Kolo. On being informed
of this event, Lieutenant-General Knorring
immediately marched with his corps to Kalisch.
He found the town occupied by the Poles, and in or-
der to prevent useless bloodshed, he acquainted the
leader of these troops, with the taking of Warsaw,
and the events that bad taken place there, inviting
him to quit the town, and to leave the farther de-
cision to FieleWliershal Paskewitsch. While the ne-
gociations were pending, the Poles thought that the
Russians would be off their guard, and having first
met an officer to ask time for consideration, sal-
lied out of the barrier of Kalish, with all their
cavalry at full gallop. This faithless proceeding
coat them dear, for they were received by the Podo-
lien cuirassiers stationed on the causeway, and
some cannon placed near the windmills, so that
after a short action they were obliged to seek for
safety In a disorderly flight, in which they suffered
severely from the artillery in the narrow passage.
Their loss amounted to 150 killed and wounded,
and 75 prisoners; among whom are several
officers, one of whom, Korski, the com-
mander of the Polish cavalry, soon after died of
his wounds. The loss of the Russian troops con-
sisted in 6 officers, and 60 privates killed and
wounded, as it rained in torrents, and it was already
dark, Gen. Knorring delayed a formal attack till
the following day. The Poles, however, took ad-
vantage of the night quickly to evacuate Kalisch,
which was again occupied by the Russians on the
14th. The principal part of Gen. Knorring's
corps encamped near Kalisch.

and of the hostile armies; for they are yet strongly
opposed to each other. Even the corps diplomatique
were ignorant of the real state of affairs.
It would appear front an article is the Prussian
State Gazette of the 20th September, that 512
persons had been attacked with Cholera up to the
19th September; of those 49 have recovered, 282
died, and 181 are still under treatment. The
theatres and the university continue open, and it
.s believed that the winter session will commence
It the usual period; this determination is the more
neceesary, as, notwithstanding this is the vacation,
there are 700 students here at present.
CHAMBER or DEPUTIES, SEPT 28.—At two
l'elock, Mr. Girod de l'Ain, the President, took
'he chair, but the Deputies not being in number
sufficient to form a house, the sitting was suspended
for half an hour, when M. d'Argout, Minister of
Commerce and Public Works, presented several
projects of law, haying for their objects to authorise
Bordeaux, Rouen, Calais, and other towns, to
levy extraordinary contributions, to be applied to
local purposes.