Star.
London, England, 1812-04-22 00:00:00

aRDEUS IN COUNCIL.

The Duke of NORFOLK presented a Petition from ceu'ain
Manufacturer., Traders, and others; of the town of Binnioghun,
against the continuance of the Orders in Council, which was
ordered to lie on the table.
Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a Petition to the same effect,
from the body of Merchants, Manufacturers, and other loyal in-
habitants of the town of Sheffield, in the county of York, and its
vicinity. The Petition expressed, in strung language, the opi-
nion of the Petitioners respecting these measures, and praying
their Lordships to adopt such measures as in their wisdom they
may deem proper tor the purpose of rescinding the same.
Lord CAL I'HORPE presented a second Petition, precisely to
the same effect, from Jiirmingbaat.
The Duke of NORFOLK tools occasion to observe, that the
Petition just presented bad received the signatures of more than
fourteen thousand is.dividuals, and urged the propriety of their
Lordships paying the most serious attention to a subject of such
vital importance, and respecting which the sense of such a lug*
portion of their fellow subjects was so decidedly expressed.
Atter a few words from Earl Firswiuutisa
'I he Earl of LAUDERDALE oseived, chi ti t the various sp.
plicaticns to Parliament upon this important tubjt.ct, strongly
expressed the opinions and the feelings of the great body of those
most interested in dud affected by the measures in question.
WWI they alledEed against those ruinous measures was strictly
founded in fact, and this he would be the mere enabled to prove,
were the documents which he should move for on Friday‘ or-
dered to be produced. 3he Petitioners took a right view of the
subject, and he agreed with them, as he was sure that no mea-
sures could more effectually aid the enemy, than the means
afforded by those Orders in C4uncil. They would ter.cf eventu-
ally to the creation of a Marine fur the enemy, and would, in-
stead of dirniteshing, tend to increase the supplies for those
armies with which he subjugated the Contin6t. Ile conjured
their Lordships to attend to the subject, when it should, ere long,
come unsier their consideration, as involving points not only vi-
rally affectirg the commercial and trading interests, but even the
national importance of the country itself.
Earl BA MOROI* strove, contended that a very mistaken
and erroneous sense of the natur‘and effect of the Order, id
Counerf was entertained by those whose real epiniors were ex-
pressed in the larguage they had just heard.read. He would psi
it to their Lordship what would be the inevitable effect4ofa so.
peal of the Orders in Council ? It would, in tact, be to open the
ports of France to importations front the Made, from the United
I States of America, and various other places; it Would be to trans-
fer the entire advantages of a traffic to the enemy,. which :night
otherwise direct itself to this country.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE, in reply, insisted that the Peti-
tioners in such a question were the preferable authority.
The Duke of MONTROSE deprecated all premature dis-
cussion of a subject by no means before the House. He con-
tended that the opinions of Noble Lords on his side of the House
Were entitled to as ranch attention and respect as these so loudly
urged by at Noble Earl. The line of argument and tone held I,
by Noble Lords opposite, tended to deceive, instead of to inform
rise manufacturers upon the subject. They represented that the
effect of the British Otters In Council was to benefit the trait
anti the navigation of the enemy, and to divert the tide of coma
merce from the ports of this island.—His conception of those''
measures was very different. He regarded them as making part
of a wise and just system of retaliation against the unprincipled
and aggressive conduct of France, providing that where the
neutral had not the wisdom or spirit to defend its right, the
enemy should not reap the advantage of commerce, nor that the
valuable products of the West ladies should be carried intd his
port% he number of speeches which were made, nor the cla-
' moue which was raised against these measures, did not alter the
t nature of the question, or ten/ in the least to slew their want of
wisdom or justice.

TRADZ TO INTIA.
Elie Earl of DERBY presented a Petition knm
the KAgistestes and Ct until of the town of Liver-

. - - • e -• • •-o
pool, alledging the advantages of opening a trade to wee under geeerel consideration, originated In the
the East Indies, and praying to be allowed a pawl
e, other Firal-,r, and at a much lee: perrol of a Siss;ol
cipation in the same. The Noble Earl also peesen - than the pr.! cnt. (Hear, hear.) And he bilges,
ed two other petitions from the same quarter ; one leave to say, thtt ti:e 111,411:ttele and. importence of
from certain merchants, traders, and ship owners, of 1 this sueject was as :r‘ucliregareed and felt by his
the town and port of Liverpool; and the second from Majesty's savants as by any other description of
the Trustees, &c. of the %Vet Docks established at 1 persoas in the country ; bat it was one which ob.
that port to a similar effect. These petitions being i •vionsly required to be fully weighed and iovestiga.
read in the usual way, were ordered to lie on the , ted by Government as well as Parliament; and it
•
table. I vies their intention to afford the fullest great for Par'
Lord Viscount MELVILLE presented a Petition i liementatodeltberation, and for the coissiaelatioa of
to the like effect from Dunfermline, in Scotland.— the interests of ell those panics who erns involved in
Ordered to lie on the table. • I the subject...
Earl GREY took the opportunity to inquire of 1 The Matto:is WELLESLEY obtetvede that one
1 time tray be as proper for legislatite deliberation as
Ministers when they intended to bringforward a sub. jest of such great commercial and national imeort- another; yet, on the other hand, he mest say, it was
ante as that to which the petitions referred, under with considerabeeregret he heard i part of what fell
the consideration of the House ? from Iris Noble Friend, who even knew the legree of
The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE adverted respect, esteem, and Mee 'whici? be. bore him.—
to the difficulty, under the circumstances, of giving Namely, that upon this great.. importaht slues-
a precise or specific answer to the query of the Noble don -a question riot onlT ofdeep commercial
I, Earl. The measures to be adopted would in all i interest, hut of' great military and political impor,
probability originate in another place. He was I Lance ; .and more so, than any drat evtooattse tinder
therefore unable to say, at what period they would the consideration of Parliament ; a qtrestioit'atat in.
come under the consideration cf their Lordships ;1 volved all•the vital, all the dearest principles of Lea
but of this be was quite sure, that whenever the mea- 1 gislation and Governnn•nt, and all that concerns this
sures should be brought forward in that House, there ' vast empire, and which, he thought he should be able
. would be no anxiety on the part of his l'slajesty's Go- to
prove. under all the circumstances, had been ade
• . . vernment to precipitate the discussion, but that fell rntmsteted so eeell, and so deeply felt by all ;—the
and ample time would be afforded for them, and as shoultfbe told, at the present time, it was not inten-
to the period, it would then be for their lined..hips to ded the subject should be regularly deliberated upon
determine whether the application of their time, Or; reselneens proposed .to both Houses of Parliament,
the measures in question, were the most important. 1 involving all the principles on which such a question
Earl GREY observed, that by what he could col- 'I should be decided. What had been the former prac-
lect from the Noble Earl, it was at this moment un- rice should not, in his opinion, be now a question,
certain whether any measure would at all be pro-, but that would be the preferable mode or principle
posed on the subject ; but that at all events, if mea. ' for deciding the question at present--a question re,•
sures were to be proposed, they would not originate seecting the administration of a Government, of
in that House : so that their Lordships would be left more relative impor:ance, perhaps, than Parliament
without an opportunity of exercising their judg- had ever yet to de,:ide on ; that they should hear that
!meta until the time was passed when a full and deli- House was not to exercise its judgment upon the first
; berate consideration as to what that judgment should fendamental princieles upon which the question
I be, could take place. He should be glad to know I should be considered. He believed that the general
I what chance could exist in the present Session for that 1 basis upon which that Government was now carried
full and deliberate discussion? Itwasuow approaching i on wee the right Lasts—but it was a basis upon which
theend of April—the measures were not to originate in i many improvements in ty well be founded. He was
that House, and he had to ask how it was morallyl of opinion some general principles, as a foundation
possible their Lordships could have that full and i ter their se-stem of measures, should be pornatity
ample time for deliberation they were told of ? He, agteid upon by both I louses, in the way of confee
trusted the House would not suffer itself to be baled' rence ; the opinion of both houses, so experesed,
with. . • should formthe.basis of this great work, and he could
'I he Earl of BUCKINGIIADJSFII RE contended, not avoid expeeoirig his astonishment that Mimsteri
that nothing which had fallen from him warranted. • should thiek if 'right tp lax any other as a basis for
the language of the Noble Earl. From what 'he tbeproceellAig in tfit;:gie' at week, than the sense apd
'te I, ten eo' expreesed ky. Toth Houses ef.Parliament.
!odd, it did not necessarily follow that the measures •
kar•lSTANHbpCcalled to •ihe recollectien• ;of
might not originate in that House: he had however -
Al)eir;Lor4ship-s, that there was a Bill Of icilisis!erabls
no difficulty in stating that it was certainly not ha.
tended that the measures should originate in 7 that • . •
_.
arnpattance belt,.,: mem, ror we bettering
:the Inll.
House. .5 • .. ...... , . a ..,•
doe of der yeesentry and tefiato y' orGreat: if.
Loot QRENVILLE observed, it was with siesta' .sooe-ese T esee.
eee eoe 'ereotelso Mt SOW. jute n e gee
. fri
A o ia
iin.l conscious conviction that lie now appealed t
.iiic;e. ths secoadoeeding.tif that Bill On riiday nest
their Lordships own feelings, whether there.did.nof•
an• j 1;0* !Pared, tiiai•
die Lords be sunisoonfd idt
appear in the King's present Government, a fixed in- that daY which wiectiliered accordingly.*
tention to annihilate the consequence of that House. • ' .
, I
(Some of their Lordships cried No, No !)—This con- • THE CATMLIC .C.LA IMS.
elusion he made from a thorough observation of theh - The Duke of GLOUCESTER presented a Petis
conduct upon every important business they brought eon from the University' of Cambridge, in enquire
j forward, it was studiously and purposely delayed un- • quence, he observed, of the high office he had the
• til a period when an adequate degree of deliberate honour to hold with respect to that great and learne4
and particular attention could not be given by their e••dy. As far as related to his presenting the peti.
Lordships. His Noble Friend at the head of the Lion, he wished it to be understood, that he did not
Indian Department told them, and at the same time in any way incline either in favour or against the
when the manufacturers of the country were implo- important question which WAS about to come undo/
ring the House for some relief and mitigation of discussion. His Highness then delivered the Petition
their distresses; when their table was loaded with to the Clerk, the prayer of which, forage reasons. as.
petitions, irefloring them to take the subject into signed, was, that uo farther concessions should:be
consideratiou : that it was not the intention of the ; rnade to the Roman Catholics, &c. It was ordered
King's Government that the measure should be to lie on the table. . . -
brought forward in that House. A declaration to The Earl of HARDWICKrfoot. the
0... tuy
that effect he never before heard. It was their duty nity 0 state some circurosteeceil. neptcting . pro..
to bring the matter equally before that House to the du ion of the petition just proleoted, He a. vereel
formal Bind legitimate consideration of their Lord- to shortness of the notice, from which numbers.
ships ; they were not to sit with their --hands folded in the Uolvertity, especially se eeral heads of hooch
luntil it should please Ministers to bring the matter were not apprized of such an extremely important
round to them. It was doubtful whether they could measure being in agitation. The petition, even under
1
enter into the question at all this Session. But if it such circumstances, was far from being unanimously
I were brought forward at such a period of the ye4r, agreed to; and he stated some divisions that took
I what opportunity could they have tot a full and deli- place, one of which was 24 to I9s The opieions be
berate discussion ? He must condemn the way in
held on the question to which he referred were known,
which Government had treated that House with re- and in these he was decidedly fixed, and these hir
1 spect to this great national question ; their delays should declare, notwithstanding 'his high respest'foi
i were wilful. It appeared that with their Parliament the majority who voted the petition.
in Leadenhall-street, they had, been debating the sub- The Marquis of LANSDOWNE followed, and
jcct for five years. The public interest, and the con- stated some further circumstance' relative to the pro-
' venience of that House, were squally unheeded by auction of the petitions in order to sbew that onieient
them. time or notice was not given of she intention to bold
The Earl of LIVERiVOIO said, he would never the meeting. He concurred in the statements of the
permit to be sssened, *ire was a deliberate inten- 1 Noble Earl who had just spoken, and begged leave
don, on dse part of Civoroenent, to degrade that j further to add, that if any other persons than those
i house, without poirste4 y alletiging, on the part of i alluded to, had been aware of the intention, they
that Government, that .on every occasion, they had i would have attended for the purpose of negativing
to submit measures of importance to the coneielere- the petition. He concluded by obeervingethat though
I, oon of their Lordships, they had duly consulted the he entertained very diffeteet sentiments than those
I character, the dignity, and the deliberative functions expressed in the document in question, yet be deemed
'of that House. His Noble friend had etatecitho very it entitled to attention, as the Aildress of the Mester.
reverse of what the Noble Boron batkeisserted, . sity of Cambridge, id its corporate capacity; ;hough
namely, that ample time would be given , for Wide.: the Resolution was only assented ttiby stl Member*
I liberation on this most impute:int, subject. ekle must ; of that University.
also state, that what was said as totee season of th The Order of the Daylimgeeead. 'year, was an observatipaof an irregular native.. . N•. ; The Earl of DONOUGHnIPRE said, the yeti. .
i season of the year was improper for deliberation.-e, bons on behalf. of his Catholic countr; men, which
(Hear, hear.) If any criminal neglect, or deliberate I their Lord hips had heard reed, were sieued by four
intention to delay existed on the part of Ministers, it ' 1 millions of Irishmen, complaining of their ezclusion
! may, according to the. circurestaecee of the case, .bee Tone those privileges whieh were the birthright of
i a regular ground of accusetieu. But when this watt 1 every member of the commonaethh. And the re-
: not the case, no objection to any particular season, as ' needy they sought fur their grievances was the, remo.
i a season not fittiug for deliberaticn, could be well , vel of those restrictions. 'llls was no new question,
I founded. The subject in question, though one too- iit was, therefore, not to be expected that be should
i per to be taken up as early as possible, yet as it re- • advance any new arguments on the subject. Ac the
' spected the term of the Company's Charter, was one I same timeehe had ito doubt but he should be oppos.d
which afforded an interval of two years from the pre. very nearly in the same way as formerly. It was, how-
lsent period: That the question must originate in ever, necessary for ham to guard against one übjec.
one House before it could be taken up in the other, ern which might be made as to the tame aim-awing
was is the necessaryscourse of things. Their Lordships forward this question. It could not now he mid that
would reciolect, that this very subject, when List it their Lerdsekes were called upon to give ea. epeeses

$s a slbject respecting which they had twice already
given an opinion during the present Session. He
must admit that the subject had been discussed to a
certain extent on two 'occasions during the present
Session ; but no decision had been come to by the
House as to the merits of this question. On neither
of those nights did the House come to a vote respec-
ting the Claims of the Catholics, that subject being I
rather a secondary consideration in those debates. It
was, therefore, now, for the first time in the Session, I
that a motion was offered to the House on the sim-
ple grounds of the Catholic Qnestion. No Noble
Lord, he believed, was plvdged to give a vote against
this motion ; but he expected, that night, to have the
concurrence of many, besides those who had always
expressed themselves favourable to the Claims of the
Catholics. But even if there was to be any change
of opinion of this kind, it would only be what had
happened before on the same subject. In )799, the
Claims of the Catholics were scouted by the Irish
Parliament, there being only 45 members found in it
*rho would vote for even a limited relief for them.—
As to their elective franchise, it was absolutely re-
fused to them. Their petition was rejected with
scorn, and this rejection was the signal to.all Corpo-
rations, great and small, to address the Executive
Government, declaring their determination to sup-
port the Constitution, as it then stood, and never to
allow ,to the Catholics the right of elective franchise.
Bet,sluring the prorogation of that very Parliament,
meetings sat for the purpose of obtaining this relief
from the Government; and in one of the answers
which he received from a Noble Earl, then at the,
bead of the Irisk Government, that Noble Loscide-
timed the prayer of their petition to be quit, ipad-
missible. That Noble Lord would net allow the pe-
tition to find its way to the Throne in the usual way,
but fortunately for the petitioners, a Noble Viscount {
presented it himself to the Executive Government
by which means they obtained an unlimited fran-1
chise. There was one singular circumstance Of which
he must remind the House, namely, that the city of
Dublin then unanimously joined in an Address to i
deprive the Catholics of their rights, they have now I
been barely able to produce a majority in the Cor-
poration to the Petition against the Claims; he,
therefore, did not see how Noble Lords could be
pledged to refuse their assent to a motion, for the
purpose of setting the Catholics at liberty. But if
any of them had so pledged themselves, he trusted
that, in the present state of our affairs, the keeping
together of Ireland, and the rest of the Empire,
would be an object far paramount to any pledges
they could have given. He conjured them to throw
aside the infuriated religious prejudices, which were
not the children pf their understandings, but the off-1
Spring of their worst passions. He begged to call the
*tuition of the House to the way in which the penal
laws had found their passage into Parliament against
the Catholics in Ireland. This was always through
the measures of the Government, for every case came
directly or indirectly from the Ministers. The last
of these measures in 1793 moved directly from the
bla tali, then at the head of the Administration
e( that country. With deep regret he found that
there were still no warm feelings in the breasts of
Ministers in favour of this measure so devoutedly to
be wished. It was with real rorrow that he found it
was not brought forward from the Prince Regent by
direct message. He regretted, that instead of its
being so moved, it had fallen to his lot to bring for-
ward the question. There were reasons known to
the Members of that House which had for several'
years prevented its being pressed, out of respect and
deference for the feelings of a certain illustrious per-
sonage. It was not regular to allude to the person now
zepresenting the executive government, nor was it
right to say, what might be the opinions of that illus-
trious personage. But if one could argue of the opi-
nions of the Regent from those of the Prince of
Wales, well known and widely acknowledged, and
there having arisen no intermediate circumstance to
change those sentiments, the great objection—
Lord KENYON spoke to order. He believed it
was' not Parliamentary to state the opinions of the
person representing the Executive Government.
Lord DONOUGHMORE thought it rather
strange that the Noble Lord should interrupt him
without saying one word to spew that he had been
out otorcler. He could consider it merely as an im-
tenfattempt to put himself forward and to stop his
Lord D.'s) mouth. But no such interruptions could
Lord
hurt the cause which be advocated. However, he
wished the Noble Lord had allowed him to proceed
Without that, interruption which lie could not but cots-',
alder as an unreasonable and improper one.
Lord KENYON was sorry the Noble Earl had so
misunderstood him. It 'was not his intention to in-
terrupt him unfairly ; but ha believed that it was al-
ways considered as unparliamentary to allude to the
Executive Governmeut in that House.
Lord DONOUGHMORE resumed. He said: he
was lamenting, that instead of this measure coming
from the Speech from the 'Throne, it . had fallen' to
his lot to bring it forward. This was not a discus-
sion on his part, but an endeavour to provoke it in
the way in which it could only be done with propsiel
namely. in a Committee of the whole House.
was firmly of opinion that this question should:be.
settled by the Government with which it had begun,
and that it should ?reseed on it as a gratuitous MCIPO
sure. But the,clatms of the Catholics, there being
now no barrier from the religious scruples of an illus-
trious person, were still opposed by the conscientious
feelings, or political juggles, of the Ministers. There,
certainly seemed to have been: great sacrifices made
to the characters and integrity of the present-Mini-
sters ; but could it be possiblethat:fanner promises
so tit Catholics were to be milked to them also 1
Always arguing the question- on the strong=
of constitutional right, when he formerly a
their Lordships, it would be unnecessary foe hint-now
atuTat those arguments. The ground which he
d now take would be agSinsr the demise of
englusion, whether of a general or particular mom f
having done so, he should call on &sir Lordships. scf
do it away ; indeed he should. go quite far estoughio
stating that suds a system at exclusion as related to
ibe Catholics did exist, and it would be for their
Lordships to :hew why it should exist all longer.—
He would take his stand on the Act of 17093. fie
produced that act as a proof, not only that the Ca-
tholics were trust-worthy, but as proof that the Le-
gislature bad then the Meg assuranceof the fidelity
•

age _ .Iql 1131
do it. But there was another thing of which he had which she might acquire. Such was the indisputably
to complain—it did not come from any of his Ma. sound policy of the great antagonist with whom the
jesty's Ministers; he must not mention the throne, it country was at present engaged, and it was wise to
did not come from thence ; but it might come from take lessons from an enemy, and adopt a course which
behind the throne. This was, a suggestion thrown alone could render us able to contend with him. If
out by way of intimidation, to send a regiment the Memorialists in their Petitions had not been so
or two of his Majesty's Guards to Ireland, with full, explicit, and satisfactory on the subject of the
an Illustrious Person at their head, to answer the Pope's supremacy, he should, undoubtedly, have
Catholic Petitions. Such ja measure as this, he thought it necessary to say something on that head ;
was persuaded, would have the effect of doing any but they had obviated all fair objection, and he need
thing tether than conciliating the Irish • and, as far only add, that the doctrine had long ago and fre-
as he could, he would, as an individual of quently, been renounced by the Popes themselves in
Parliament, reprobate such a proposition. The Noble their negotiations with the Sovereigns of Europe, as
Lord then adverted to the disappointed hopes of the well as by the Deutee of the Council of Cunsusuce.
Catholics, in finding that the first act of unlimited But be might limit his observations to our own his-;
power exercised by the Regent was retaining those tory. The greatest opposition ever made to the in..!
men as his Ministers who had endeavoured to inter- ordinate power and temporal usurpation of the Pope,'
ceps in their way to the Throne the petitions of four was offered by the Catholic Sovereigns of that coun- !
millions of his Majesty's suffering subjects. (Hear, try. Happily insulated as we were, our institutions,
hear.) This had been called a new sera : it might be religious and civil, were nourished and preserved in
so ; but most inauspicious had been the circumstances a state of purity of which no other State could boast,
attending it. The Ministers had drawn a narrow and they at all times clearly evinced that the King
circle round the Throne, from which all but them- enjoyed the supreme civil power and government of
selves and their connections were excluded. Under the State, while the spiritual functions were, without
these circumstances, they must cling to the energies danger, committed to the Spiritual Head:. That an,
by which the ancestors of those he was now address. primacy of the Civil government was Manifest 400
ing had so often served their country. Parliament years before the time of Henry VIII. and was ac-
must speak their grievances aloud till their voices knowledged and confirmed by Catholie Judges, and
should again reach the ear of Majesty. The Noble by the admissions of the Conn Law. It was proved
Lord then adverted to our external situation, and and acted on by William the Conqueror. In the
asked if this was a time to require pledges from Bri- reign of King John it had a singular and most happy ;
tisli subjects, or to sport with the feelings of the Ca- confirmation in the Act of Archbishop Langton, I,
.tholics, when the union of all hearts and hands was who, when the meanness and pusilanimity of the I
required to enable us to meet the efforts of our i King had stooped to receive from the hands of the
powerful enemy. Sure he was that the alarming and Papal Legate his title to the Crown, generously,
, portentous crisis was arrived at which it was become I manfully, and patriotically disclaimed at the head, !
necessary for the Parliament to exert its high con- and in behalf of the English Ecclesiastics, the right
treuling powers for the preservation, nay, the viva- ! of the Pope, or of any foreign authority, to dispose
don of the empire, to do away the Catholic disabi- j of, or interfere with, the civil Government of the
lities, and to enforce the right of petitioning the ! realm. The same had been proved in the reign of
Throne. The Noble Lord concluded by moving for Henry VIII. ar.d even by Queen Mary, who, while
a. A Committee of the whole House, to take into she annulled, at the Pope's suggestion, the Act of
consideration the laws respecting the disabilities,lher father, did so with a saving proviso for her own
civil and religious, of the Catholics, and that the va- I authority. The same was established by Elizabeth ;
rious petitions presented to the House in favour of the land so fully and clearly were the land-marks between
Catholic Claims should be rtferred to the said Com- the civil and spiritual functions planted and set up,
mittee." I that any Pope in later times, who should attempt to
The DUKE of SUSSEX rose. In contemplating remove them, would split on the rock of his prepos-
a subject, of the nature of that before the House, it terous ambition. Against the artifices of designing
must be obvious, that the first duty of a subject was, and intriguing Popes, and of not keeping faith with
respectfully to submit to the laws as they were then heretics, the virtue and validity of the oath of elle-
established. But that duty did not prevent the free,lgiancehad,even it, the Council of Constance, been suf-
full, and open discussion of the merits and tendency ficeatly established, where wilful perjury was declared
of the laws, whenever tbey should be found to depart and recorded a mortal :in. A glance at histery too
essentially flum the original object and intention of I would spew, how the Empress Maria Theresa pre-
the Legislature which framed them. Whenever the sere ed her faith with her Protestant subjects, when
subject found himself aggrieved, it was a salutary • every temptation to violate it was held forth to her.
and acknowledged principle of the Constitution, that His Royal Highness feelingly deplored the necessity
lr_eifte gadded to submit the statement of hit grie-; which the Catholics of Ireland had long lain under,
cane to that quarter where he should naturally look ! of reeking in a foreign country, that education which
(or rodeo's. That.wes one of the noblest and most I would not be afforded to them at home. To deprive
i Constitution, d one that, any man of the fair means of gaining a livelihood,
et:siperivottigclesheoverf the
beabandoned or denied.— waspipeble injustice, however sophistry might try
'Remonsteencee and repreeestalions of that nature, to gM the pill or sweeten the drapght. Exclusions
respectfully drawseup, it was the duty of the Legis- I were unnatural, and contrary Oaths spirit of the
ilenste to attend to, and it was likewise their duty Constitution, and the Catholics were entitled to all
its afford a remedy, where such could, with wisdom the privileges and indulgence which were extended
*id propriety, be yielded. With those impressions to any other class of dissenters from the' Church estab-
lin hit mind, he thought it would well become their lishment. As to thee argunsent which he had heard in
Lordship: to rake the Petitions into their most seri- reference to the Family of Stuart, be considered that
oats cots-Wen:aim The subject was grave, pressing, a mere dead letter. He pitied the mitfortuneethey had
and roomentoue end inch as the nation ought to am endured, but the dangei from their former pretensions
their Lordships were not disposed to treat with se- was utterly removed or annihilated. There was no en:
gleet or levity. All impassioned feelings should be croadment to be dreaded while the Constitution
dismissed from their minds, and they ought to come I was maintained. He could see no objection to the
to the discussion with tempers as calm, chastened, prayer of the Petitheits, and thought that the religious
and philosophic as that of Plato or of Socrates.— subjects of those realms should be as sisters of one
Bigotry should be *dilly exelnded, expediency ne family. Nor would theta,- en-inquiry; fie found'so

"Lent;m4ilgrht t
we
of the Catholic subjects to the Protestant• State. That farther dwelt on than wee compatible with fait- material a difference Isetweeo
ther
Act was but the beginning of the perfect Emancipa. stress aced justice, and thus, under the guidance of the Romiih Church and our owe,
tion of the Catholics, which was in contemplation at truth, wisdom, and liberolity, he should not fear to be apprebendeJ. In the ceremony of visiting th;
that time. He would take for the cornerstone of -bolt ohe vessel of the State, however tossed and sick, the doctrine of absolution was copied from die
his argument the opinion of a Noble Marquis .(4141- ogltated at present, might be brought soon into a Romish form, and the dignities and gradations it
lesley) delivered on a former night, that eyeryorialto serene and safe anchorage. He had heard much our Hierarchy were fashioned from the same orio,o
's ion
iots of any part of his Majesty's subjects from the unmeaning talk about a New lbw, and abuts- Had we not for a long time been engaged in oneono,
enjoyment of .any privileges which other -classes of dance of conjectures, imaginations, and inuendoes, to support the Pope against the power which attacked
subjects enjoyed, was an evil, and tended to weaken resulting from the idle gossip of tea-tables him ? And were we not still in friendly kasue and
the power of the State. The Act of 1705 seas wig! —From such a copious and fertile source of intelli- Alliance with Catholic Powers, and Catholic Cote.
!dent to prove that the Parliament of Ireland; without gene., it was no wonder that frightful tales and ap- mutinies. There, then, our conduct had given too
I anyother phi dges being given than.those required -prehension of murders and enormities, and estrevo- lie to our prejudicao He lid heard it said, die p,e.
by that Act; would have, In t, removed all the .gances of Allows should proceed, and that Prows- sent was nut the fit time for granting what was asked.
Idisabilities. One argument been adduced by 'cants should be made to cry out against the murder- No time wis unsuitable to the concession id ri ph
ssotroernc.eiriJi-**thceau''filtdt..
the opposers.of this measure, namely,o Would you out Papists. But the present zra, the commence- and it could never be yielidolmetom:
admit the Catholics to political power ?" In answer ment ofthe 19th century, he hoped would be marked, easily conceive a disposition at times iu peotoe to he
to that, he would reply, they already possessed that hailed,anddistinguished, by toleration and true even- turbulent, but he could by lo
power ; they composed the majority of those who gelieal doaity. He would advise their Lordships to , uess of trying to quell turbulence by aggravating
'returned the Irish -Representatives. The same an- pause and examine the pages of history, and to mark the cath m
eof it. To the generous, owi i , and
' c
lower would apply to the argument against admitting and distinguish between the exertions of the civil :end amenable temper of the Irish peopk his o, o o High.
them into the State. By admitting them into offices, spiritual functions. They would there firidothathow- illess paid a most warm and liberal compliment. got
they were 'already admitted into the State. But soever perverted by ambition and misdirected power, I the civil and religious dos abilities under which they
lthete was another and a stronger ground on which those functions had been blended ana confounded, i laboured could 'not fail to gall them. The promo.
he would rely—that of right. He wanted to have they .yet were naturally, essentially,, and necessarily ces tinder which those disabilities subsioed sore no
but-two sorts of people—the loyal and disloyal.— distinct.; and in all cases 4 civil complaint, it was longer cherished in the capital of the P.ipal inflamer.
Tbis could only be done by setting this question at not to-the spiritual constitution, but to .the foresight When he WAS in Rome he saw two pictures of their
rest. He would not, however, accept, as a boon and policrof man alone, that an appeal for redress Majesties, which Were the objects there of public
to the Catholics, that which they could demand as should be made. Instead of 'upholding
.stale and ex- esteem and veneration. For his Nrt he had very
a right. He had not only to complain tit.; this right ploded, prejudices at the present date, it would be- ' gravely and attentively considered the subject, and
being withheld from the Catholics, but
..lie had to ; come the Parliament of shot earl' latened country to the object of the r,etitions before their Lordships...
complain of the manner in which it had been with- I convince Europe and the sebrld blittt we 'are yet .xis- They had come upon his meditation on a recent oc.
held by his Majesty's Ministers. 'l'lre Noble Lord ; tong a free nation, which, disetaibing the dark,diunal, cation, when a severe and alarming indimositioa had
then adverted to what had passed in ill other House and
.pestiferous clouds of prejudice end persecution, led him to conteMpl ite his probable death with calm
o'of Parliament on the subject of the Catjuslies.--o i could perceive, acknowledge, and worship the bole- Christian resignation. At that awful moment, ha
hothat-plites, where tEe People had so much reason ficent GOD of all Christians, wilt) came into the world had considered what was the most acceptable soviet
to complain of the waste and extravagant expendi. to save, and not to molest or destkey, his worship- he coul I render to Con, and the sitogestion arising
tore of the public money, on the proposal for adding , pers. Whatever were the difficulties of the times, to his conscience to follow- the dictates of charity,
an additional sum of .le4ooo to 88090, the sum gran. I whatever the alarm excited by bad minds, or admit- meekness, and indulgence, set forth his example is
Ited for the support of the College of Maynooth, the ted by weak ones, he trusted that theft was no want i the practice of our bkssed lteedemer. He would re,.
place appointed for the education of the whole body of the amor patrie in the coitatto ; but that if such an peat, that With the bulwarks which the Cootitooin
of the Catholic Clergy ; it was refused ; and one of emergency should occur, there would be many a had provided, there was no danger in accedingtothe
his Majesty's Ministers expressed his regret, that the Curtius ready to leap the gulf. He recollected well' Catholic claims, and wretched inJeed most be the
College of Maynooth had ever existed. At the same the principles which introduced and placed o the , foundation of that church which could be shales by
dine that this £4OOO was refused to the Catholics, throne of that kingdom the family to which he had ,an act to tolerance and equity. The yit;Jing time
,01,1,0U0 was voted to the Protestant Charter Schools the honour to belong, and he would state the mo- claims to the Catholics would bind the two cowries
in Ireland. Persons complained of the ignorance of tives w;t.ch directed the vete he meant to give that !in bonds of affection and mutual confidence, woo
the Catholics of Ireland, whilst it was the Govern- night— valid, firm, and efficacious than any acts of Pitia.
.
spent, and the measures of Government, which kept o Homo sum, nil human' ame aliennm Auto." ment, and contribute more essentially than wader
them so. Another Gentleman, in the same place, The wisdom of Governments, he thought, was shewn ! measure to the permanent security of the 41111fiet.—
had likened. them to the beggar, in Gil Bias, who, the by their tolerating all religions. No inconvenience , His Royal Highness concluded with observing, that
mote there was given, the more he required. But to the State, but rather advantage, would arise from !he could not sit doon or free his conscience trace
that Gentleman should have reflected, that if they their varety. They would tend to balance the ! giving his hearty vote for the motion of the Noble
lwere beggars, it was we who had made them so, by strength of the community, while each man indulged , Earl.
depriving them of all their rights. He called on the the dictates of his conscience, without being amenable ! Lord REDESDALE said, the muse of the Re.
House to do away entitely, at a tame when it might to any other being but Goo alone—( Near.) By such , formation of our Church was not the maintaining of
appear like an act of liberality on their part, all the wise and wholesome indulgence alone could any great any religious tenet, but the unit potion of temporal
present objectionable code, and not delay doing so State maintain tranquillity, or retain in peace and power on the part of spiritual persons. Thitcootely
till the necessities of the times might (Air - them to accord the conquests she might make, or the territory, was a Protestant country, and we had in it a Pro.

tenant establishment, the object of whichwas to pre.
serve the tranquillity of the country. In this-ques.
titan he considered only the tranquillity of the Gosem.
ment, of which the Protestant Church formed a put
James the Second, whatever his motives were, ind as.
deavour to establish the Catholic Religion. He &1
break the law, for the purpose IA 4lestroviag die
security provided for our Constitution by the Peo
testant establishment. This was a sewrity which he
would never suffer to be endangered. Hit Lord.
ship then went over the history of the accession cf
William and Mary, and the _Declaration of liglna
1 which set forth, that the Roman Catholic
was inconsistent' wish rho political liberties of the pin
pie. He would ask, on what grounds could thew
wise provisions a our ancestors be called wpm re.
strictions on the liberty of conscince ? What sne
the object of the gos OftatiOn Oath ? Was it net 141
bind the Sovereign down to a solemn declaratioindug
he would never do an act tending to overtire thy s♦
curites established for the support of the Proton*
system ? That part of the oath must have been wholly
unnecessary, were it not conceived that this severity
ought to have been promised ley the Sovettig..., in
earning to the Throne. The question then was, AP;
the ral those securities, thus established by oar ar
cestors, were to be now overthrown ? In abe
state like ours, if the Catholics were to be adiuitul
into political power, we should then have a great 10
of people exercising the power of Government, eta
would be hostile to our religious establishment: k
was impossible in the nature of things they could le
otherwise. Men must be men—they could not rt
rid of the prejudices which a particular religion pro-
duced. In his early life he thought that the result.
tions on the Catholics, which had noconnesion with
political power, ought to be done away ; and be
acted upon that impression, and did °f►-r a plan for
doing away their religious disabilities. Therecoula
be no objection to the Roman Catholic religion, pro-
vided the Roman Catholics did not disturb the peace
of our establishment. The language now used 11
the Catholics in the very ; etiti6ns tb.it woo on'the
table wasthe language of intimidation—it was nothing
else." And there were persons who were IS this
question with no other view than the sewation
Ireland from Great Britain. Now, would it be said.
that the grant ng the concessions asked for weld de.
feat all tho e views ! N.' ;it nould only iacroase the
power -of elate persons who entertained inch pricc".
To grant tie concessions, would be like the'eoodbet
of our arcstors, who used to buy 4 tlie Danish in-
va,!ers wi.:i a hope of keeping the coun:ry sewn
against their ravages. Did not these roPle tefi".
to tiav2 the slightest negative put on the sPPiat.
ment of their hierarchy ? • Was it ratieual, the% 10
iatterke the
give any power to persons who refused tom
to
slightest concession on their part, as far as
thiir Chur.h ? If the object of the present w°6°ll
was contibatian, that object could not be a _
unless all was granted, without any qualifieno°'
whatever.—Here his Lordship read a set of
tons passel by the Cathol cs of the Onnti GAI*
way, to shew that they wanted all or nothing.--
The argument, the on the ground of ,oa.il`atror+
was entirely done away. It was impenoble 10 mP'
pose, that the priests of this religion, wi h
they posseood over the minds of the ieople. rungri
influence the Goyernritent of the country ;
sadr
anLorilthsZeipsthmintgisst nthowe-naesklepdecftorzesoaagiventoo_leProlt
downfall of the Protestant estabbsinnes4 710,
erection of a Roman Catholic establishing*.
stead.—f Cris: of No, Nb 1) —This was the ondloin:
the late Lord Clare, who asserted. that eZ;
cession to the Catholiis would only lead to
still more inadmissible.
After serr.e diteensierr, whether Lord Weal°

,