Star.
London, England, 1814-11-22 00:00:00

original lispoliey eiktimem•pv4t7 of suspending in
Ireland a material *yet the British Consutution.
He beggid therefor* twatt4eitiat iC was his deeiiliid
intention to bring (asrunsrdeaussposignP( which be Ind
given notice in the laslt Sisitm of PstlitniCilt•
Mr. PEgLE reminshisi Aito llonotirable Gentle-
Man, that this was a Bill' tearnend *the'Peace Pre-

, .
nervation Act. -With retpect to'thafttsurrection•Act,
he had; ail correctly. stated •by the tion:,Gentlemars,-
asserted its suceass(allogeratiqn; Kid the subsequent
titernal tranquillity of Ireland, in his opinion, Sully
Justified that assertion. tie could not agree, as ap-
.peared to be intimated, that because an Act was not
put into force, it could therefore have no operation.
He hadhintself..said, .at: the time of: its enactment,
that he,hopeet• no occasion would arise that should
,render it necessary to enforce it. He. had regretted
the state of things, the series of outrages which had
'been perpetrated, the tumultuous dispesition which
had been betrayed, and the necessity which was thus
created of having.eetronrse to measures that ao Le-
Bislature ccutld adopt without reluctance. The other
ill, it was. equally trite, had been put in force in
one barony, and 14 tonsequence of resolutions agreed
to at a large meeting of County Magistrates.
Mr. PONSONBY inquired when.the Bill would
be read a third time ?
To which Mr. PRELE replied. on Wednesday next.
The 8.111 was. then read a second time.
CATHOLIC P 45 1(3.
- Sir J. C. HIPPISLEY rose to 'stove for the pro.
' duction of two papers,. which, . although ordered last
'4e.ssion, had by roe accident. notbeen. presented.—
ie regretted mnch,the impossibility. of laying before
the House a report relative to the ecclesiastical rights
of the Ring, which was net at present put into ani
Official shape, as well as another important paper—
'he meant the bull of the present Pope reviving the
institution of the, desetits, . Gross,misrepresentations
had been circulated on this subject, and the ;Muds of
the people of Ireland kept in a state of the dark*
ignorance. Here the Honourable Gentleman entered
into some criticisms on Mr. Piowden's History df
Ireland, in which he laboured to shew, that a facie,
picture was not drawn of the character and ohjectsof
that order. He lamented that his motion for a Com.
mittee on this, subject had formerly failed, as he wag'
convinced the House had thereby been deprived of
every valuable information. .He could st*te, on-hits
own authority, that every College of Jesuits was pros
vided with a member of the Greek Church. . At pre-
sent, however, he should content himself by moving
for an 4ddress to his Panel 1-tglmess the Prince Re-
gent, that he would be graciously pleased to order to
be laid before the House a copy of the Resolutions
"greed to at a Meeting of Catholic Prelates in Lublin,
m January. 1799, together with a copy of M. Qua.
rautatti's letter; dated ---,'l/314.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
Lord PALMERSTON Movedahat the House re-
solve itself into a Committee to take.into considera-
tion Ole Estimates of.the Amy *eraiee.
Mr..,yit001gt,441,) said, that before ring into
the COptinrttee, he thought it'right to call the ahem.
:don Of thi.H4iuse to the want of information it tors►
sessed, as to what roue ought to be kept up by this
icouutry,without which it,was impossible for them to
come to a Kopec vote on the question,. which would
,be submit $,e4„10 ;Agfa, ~There
:were other questions
wlrich he had to put as to the general affairs of Eu-
rope; and anlessahey were explained it would lie im-
possible for the House tii•saY, what the for.:e ought
to be which it.entrusted loth,- Ceown. Ida repett,e4.
that there was now in. recd '.a Treaty of ?CAC!
iland, 41144 e fsstweest and 'Naples, which
iiiiilistais;* ca Vomit's':ibiliinclfii be ignorabt
vie
of; indtociihith We niade"intitiet: bra 'hate
written eery 'Lard Castlereagh and Lords. William
Bentinck. That .note bard.. be -14ing..0 14411113
to trust to our hottoor, its. Age was -no tixoe.,to
draw' up ,a' Treaty. He Aso' pilled' tin the gielit
Honourable Gentleman-to' 61;1r:there 'Wert nci
also a Treaty with Spain, which had not been laid be.
fore the House, akhough h had boeu rati tied inAugost
last. There had been a Paper. pohlished, in a pokrye
Print, signed by •Piiaeedkepnto, _being. an order to
deliver up Dresden; an the whole' of Sloody, to
Prussia. That Paper appeared tote authentic; and
yet a document so unjuet, and so replete with dauger.
bad the awe OfiLord Castlereagh *Auld. It; might
he said...atn
oif,g4FF had beeo,recalled ; but be
tlltsit
tvisheci to l ws it it everhad our Minister's ne
tb it?. lie' wished to know, if the Eiriperor of
Ruria had disgraced his name, by ordering the
arrest of Generals Lecoque and Thielman. because
they had presented a memorial on the independence
of their country being about to be violated ? The
fate of the smaller Powers. seemed to annex a sort Of
focus of diicontent to all the larger ones, to which
they had been joined, which rendered a prate of tang
duration very unlikely. There seas Norway to Sere.i
den, Pomerania to Denmark, Pula :WA() R.ussia4'
Genoa to kfralort, and Belgium to Holland. The
Hope
tir? was kept in ignorance as to the'state (4
the viloctatidirs it-Ghent. One might, hosiever, be
allocadd to ask if; in consequence el -America having
rejected our bases, that negociation hasilbeen Os-Attu'
off ? At the commencement of the war, thine were
-garties -in America hostile to it;—but we had so'
fougkit,.4pd so negotiated, that party spirit was tacm
ex.fipt An .4mettca. Fc hoped the day wispld wimp_
e whelitliey could tike a more extended view
.. , subjects: . I
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHKQUEL
hoped that Government would soon have an oppor.
tunity of justifying its conduct He hid the satisfac-
tionof stating that she negotiations newel had been
broken off at'Ghent, and that they are still proceed-
ing: This was almost the only /Act the Honourable
,Gentleman had alluded to, to which he colilti at pre-
sent give a iMstinetesplanation: There was no en.
gagrtictit between thiS country end the reigninit King
or Naplel, except a 'general conventiogi
Off aril..--'
With respect to the conduct of Rusiia or 0. any other
Powers iiwould be Improper in him to gime any an-
slier:: Tie Treat with spar's Was simply one of
inc 4;pip mthly, bad_ ender beea thopght unnecessary
1/4444
to tat it, brimsthe initil the 40'. riei4oll were
readt. " ' '
1s t.. then read a note purporting,
to be fa?* .ot4 Comjen43 ta'Lord Vfille!int Iten.
tinck, is diat the Elialials Qnveurtieha "greed to the
Treaty between. Austria and Nepleoebei. that en an-
cient Ally, the King of Oleg, should teceive an in-
demnity' 'n2ollloo . pi 44,4 if Sicily did not
cu at, IftsiW la to be aio6to 011iestalkoit alit lq t 0...

• rbi CHANCELLOR a she EXCHEQUER
asked.on *hat authority the Hnnobrable Ckatluatte
amide this statement
Mr. WHITBREAD.—On the authority of a
pamphlet.—(A laugh frog de Minktirior Bench.) Hi
begged Gentlemen opposite would not•lauglt belt,*
the yokm.mon the authority.pf a pamphlet which had'
been published on the Continent, and which he aduld
consider as atithority to be relied on till he heard it
satisfactorily contradicted.
Mr; PONSONI3Y wished to know why the article,
dated the Ist •of March, binding us to maintain the
Russian fleet, had not been laid•before thehousesoonert
The CHANCELLOR of. the EXCHEQUER
said, the delay probably originated in the ratification
being pnstpnned.
Mr. PONSONBY said, it was unusual that Tree.

ties should not be sooner laid before the House; and
still more unusual to find the Minister of the Crawn

incapable of accounting for. the delay that had taken
place.
Mr. BATHURST said, the whole substance of
this Treaty had been stated last Session to tie House
by Lord Castlereagh. There was no disrespect to
Parliament intended.
Mr. PQNSONBY said, be remembered no such
communication being mark during last Session. • '
Mr. TIERNEY said, it was now plain, that when
Parliament hick in November, it was to grant money,
but itoppearectillat this was a had time of the year
ao ask questions. It was a monstrous thing to be tol
that they must not ask questions about a formai Pi-
per, signed
shy Prince Repnin, and approved of by
Lord Castlereagh, atnnesingi by one stroke of his pen,
the whole of' Saxony to Prussia.
Mr. BATH uRs-r. did not believe, that any such
paper. existed. The subjects on which questions had
been asked were now under negociation ; and, Unless
the Honse would take away its confidence in the
Noble Lord (Castlereagh) it would nut -agree that it
was proper for inch questions to be answered.
Mr. 'f said, that, if they found the Con-
piess wereempliged in the monstrous task of hand-
ing over one State to another, it was dreadful that
their Ministers would not inform them if their Pleni-

.potentiary was any party to transactions of such a
nature. 71f the. Right Hon. Gentleman would not
give information on the subject of that Document of
Priece Reppio, he would make a motion on the sub
. . .
ject tcomorrow.
Mr. BATHURST said, the House would see that
else 'object was under negotiation.
' . Mr. TIERNEY said, all he complained of, was,
that •these thiogs had been negotiated, and were not
pogociatiog.
4lr, WHITBREAD believed that he had read
0 the House tile actual words of Lord W. Bentinck'
letter to 'the Neapolitan Government. The Right
tion. Gentleman knew perfectly whether he had, or
had not. If Ministets had received no intelligence
rgspecting Saxony, they might well accuse Lard Cai.
tlereagh of not having a very high opinion of his col.
leagues, when he kept them in complete darkness as
to all his actions and desigtio The delivering up of
the devoted,Saxons was an act of the most horrible
ipipstice. All men shuddered at the deed. The act
ewes dune, and whether it could be revoked or not, the'
disgrace was incurred. The fate of • Poland and of
arena was equelly fixed.
The. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
,noticed tire inconreniencies resulting from these dis-
.r.rderly discussions.
Sir C. MON..:K made a few short remarks upon
the transfer of the lonian Islands to Austria,•whereby
this country. betrayed her intro
' •114 r. a VEPHEN reprobated the daily practice of
;Cwochisiog diantistets upon importaut and undecided
quesltions ;bat a*cted. the deepest interests of Europe.
iLet any.Henuurable Gentleman on the other side, if
ihe dared to stake his reputailon before the country,
bring forward a regular caution upon any. of the fri-
ivolous points to which they had telerred.
Mr. HORNER. thought it no very extraordinary
or unprecedented proceeding, that before immense
Aims of money were granted some questions were put
for information.: if it were: irregular, the irregularity
• originated in those who maintained an unjustifiable
:silence. The House was entitled to know the state
of the foreign relations of the country ; no answers
were required as to events of yet doubtful issue 0..-;
Ministers were interrogated not as to crimes meditat-
. ing,•but as to crimes actually perpetrated. - (Nur,
!mar.) An Act•of the haw.st and must IMkOrtiffrable
aggression was complained 91, alot no vindicotioe or
dowlaimer was put in. •Who.woold believe that Eqg.
land, Whiiharrao long MOIM inciissfully resisted the
issurpationa' of- an'iklevidual, Was now becoming, in
het turro;the itmaderof bights and the destroyer of
liberties. (,((0,6 hoer.) Formerly it .wee but the
crime of ode man—now 4 was.the act of many.—
With,regard to the money 41 be paid (Or the Russian
nett, War it-to be•iontended that because -Riissia had
paid es the compliment of entrusting us with her ships,
we were bound to pay bail a million for the flattery ?
(*or. hear.) Wo st to be given because they had
Fremised to assist us, if necessary, at a time when
rance had not a ship upon the seas—or was it only
.
granted, not because it had been earned, but upon die
same principle that Ministers-had lately obsereed, of
squandering the public money right and left with the
most lavish profusion ? (1:144w, *hr.) AS to Ame-
rica, Mr. Horner did flatter himself that the question
of a new boundary was now resigned by our Nego-
tiators at Ghent. For our maritime right the coon-
try would fight to the last—bet for extension of terri-
tory it would not willingly expend a shilling.
Mr. sygLLEOLEr VOLE maintained, that a
sufficient ground had already been laid tor voting the
money : the grant was not required for the Russian
fleet, which had been so much discussed, but for the
army estimates. He was astonished that the Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread) should venture to put
p question to Ministers upon the I.undation of a mere
pamphlet. 64 We (said the Right Hon. Gentleman)
are not answerable for every thing that is published
in pamphlets—owe are not accountable for the con-
tema of newspapers—we cannot disclose communica-
tions Fade confidentially to µs—we cannot give ex-
ions opcin topics now before the Congress—we
....
to keep the secrets of State to ourselves_
0,
to give any justification of our
'slow—% e must leave it to a future opportu-
nithootamt Mt Noble Colleague returns—at present
we eitopot tole disclusuree—oeur tongues are tied,—
(liea;•, haw/ tole
I larghur.) We have a right to con-
obbi Wilt MI do wt tliiiik should be published."

ihnitifter .*T relpfliT
'll.4zoni had to do pith the Army stifttat
tho /mow int., in Belsbnii wire mod tniattotiipHsli
thk objects of tieCangtehf A !Eight Hon; Otntig
irnitharti•

sditaid they were not in posteisiun of any such
*kg bin he thought that linpossttik. ,
IititiTONSONBY wished' to know if he to
,cinsider the representation Of the Commiteitaila;el '
Client, laid before the American Cangrea ISt Mr) •
Madison, as correct
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCI4EQUER
said, that if the American Government had piiblished
the proceedingt of a pendltig negotiation, it was in
eiample which he hoped this country *001,1114d.
Mr. PONSONBY said, that by the American
Constitution the President could not do otherwise
Lord PALMERSTON said, his object at present
was to ask for certain soms on account and he moved
a resolution, that 204,386 men 6e voted for the land
service of the year;

TIERNEY wished to know what proportion
of these were employed in Belgium, according to the
Convention ?
Lord PALMERSTON said, it was never usual to
state the division of force employed for political pur-
poses.
Mr. TIERNEY said, he knew there were 75,00 Cf
men in Belgium; but he wished to know 'what pro.
portion of this 214 SBd men were employed there
The CHANCELLOR of The EXCHEQUER
said; we laid 15,000 Hanoverians there.
Mr. W BRE AD SA id, then we had just 9 ),00n
men there. He doubted the Right Hon .Gentl. min
wanted to keep the Allies ignorant of the force 'vs
had in Belgium. He wished to know if this country
had been bound to pay the 10 millions for toe :vim&
of the fortresses in Belgium ? (No answer being
given) Mr. Whizbruol said, the impresario on Use
country would be, that we were to pAT it, lions no
answer being given to his question. •
Mr. BATHURST hiped be would not ask ques-
tions and draw emnlosion! too.
Mr. BARING reprobated the conduct of Minittert
in calling on the House lot- large grants of Muney to
supply a numerous army, without affording to the
House the necessary information as to the distribu-
tion of our force. There were in the papers received
from America such pretensi.sns„that it was impossible •
Iset they rnesd Mire produced the sensation in Ame-
rica- whieh ttey have. If that be our mode of seeking
peace with America, he was afraid we should never
attain it. Ifjour Government intended to continue
the war in that. quarter, it would be necessary to lend •
out a very large force early in the next year. Worn
this subject should corne before the HoUse he wnutd •
chew that we had beim at war for the last iii months
without any just cause. ' •
Mr. S I'EPHEN contended, that the American
Government were not bound by the constitution tb ley
accounts of pending negotiations before the Congress.
Mr. PONSONBY contended, on the contrary, the
President could snake no Treaty without At:mining
it to Congress. The Hon. Genclem in hoped Mi-
nisters would never sign peace with America upon
the demands made by the American Commissioners.
With regard to the keeping up 75,000 men, the
Treaty which bound this country to maintain such t
force, in concert with the three other Powers, was an
provident one. It France was to be kept done,
and that was the object of this conjoin force, It
should have been the policy of Lugland not to have
given up certain possessions.
Mr. STEPHEN admitted that the Congress must
ratify any Treaty entered into by the President.
Mr. PONSONBY maintained that the. demands,
whatever they might be,. must be first submitted to
the Legislature, before it could be sanctioned by the •
President.
Mr. BARING observed, that the sire lea moo re-
ferred to in the American negotiations, was a de-
mand of nothing less than one-third
links of the United States, on the N
,and thereby set up the Indian inhabitants as Inde-
pendent.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
wished Gentlemen to rec, llect, in discussing th clues.
tion respecting America, they were proceeding upon
the supposition that the negotiation was broken of,
when, in point of fact, he had already stated tti the

contrary.
Mr. ROBINSON conalbied chit the points in dis-
!epsilon at Ghent were fuer. namely—the Impress.
went of Seamen—the giving up of the Indian Terri-
tory—the Division of the Boundaries in respect to the
Separation of Canada from the United States-..and
fourthly, the Fisheries. On the first and third of these
questions, the COMMIlliNiOlletS were not empowered
to treat; but, on the srcoad and fourth, they had re.
ceived instructions. It was clear, therefore, in respect
to the line of boundary, the Negociaticm was not con-
cluded.
Mr. PONSONBYanaintained, that the Commis-
sioners were empowered to treat, and he gathered so
much from their own declarations, but they were not
instructed certainly on the question of ceding any
part of their territory.
Mr. BA It I NO insisted that the question of the Ca-
nadian boundary had never been settled, nor could it
be settled by Treaty, for this reason—the line of
boundary from the River to the Heights had never
been taken.
Mr. ROSE, adverting to the Constitution of the
United States, read an Extract from thst Document,
which chewed that the power of making Treaties was
vested in the President, subject to the concurrence of
the Senate.
After some further conversation, the Resolution
was agreed to.
A Sum of £3,552,658 was then voted, towardt
defraying the expenses of the Land Forces up. to chit
24th of June.—The Noble Lord then moved, that
sum of £10,900 be granted for paying the expenses
of five troops of dragoons, and 13 companies of foot,
employed on the recruiting service in India.
A Sean of £215,000 was the., mused for, to pay
the militia corps, disembodied, from the 25th of be.
cember to the 24th of June next.—The Nibble Lord
observed, that the embod,ed militia were provided
for, by a previous grant up to the 25th December. An
estimate of six months bad only been taken, wpm",
'Sag that no more money would be required for that
force, and toe present sum was to psy OS itsOOO w
wets reduced.
The sum of £35,000 was then votes( for the pay o
often' thficcr, (noccaciwu a Ittsistruct) up t•