Star.
London, England, 1812-01-17 00:00:00

PiaLMMENTART PROCE.EMMI4.

HOUSE OP LORDS, JANUARY 16.
The proceedings of yesterday, respecting the arrangements for
hearing Appeals, Consideration of l'aitioris for farther time to
the necessary papers before the House, were resumed. Se-
veral Agents attended, and some diseu,sion relative to the sub-
ject took place. Orders were made in some of the cases, and on
a few of the petitions, the decision was postponed.
In the course of the above, it was notified by the bolt o Cua,,.
CELLOR, that there were thirty-sis causes, respectin7 which there
were no pe•itions for farther time, nor any Papers laid upon the
table; this, of course, was deserving of par.icubr and winos
consideration, and on his Lordship's suggestion, the House hoed
Monday for the consideration of the subject.
The Roxburgh case was again called en, and severs' of the
Agents appearing at the Bar, a short discussion took place, with
respect to the further y.roceedings therein ;' in which the Loma
Coartcastort again took occasion to reprehend the yractice'of
delayilg the hearing of causes on account of the convenience of
Counsel; as one which should be no longer tolerated. The WU-
ceen.np In this important cause were then adjourned ti/1 Tuesday.
The printed copies of the Report of the !Audi Comnottess ce-
spect,ng the state of hi. Majesty's health, not being rudy for a/-
livery, were not laid upon the table; and the House adjoarbcd
till Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. YORKE renewed hie notice respecting the vote of Sea.
men, and stated it to be his intent:at to move it ita-lavrrow

(Frislay)nin the Conuuittce of Sup/dy.. ,
'Mr WITAR-1 ON brought op the 'accounts ordiredlVill th. •
House, of the annual charges of the Civil List, and of the es-
ponces of the King's establishment at Windaor,with several other
papers. Ordered to be referred to the Committee of the whole
House on that part of the Lords Commissioners' Speech which
related to his Majtry's liouschold.
Mr. WHARTON bronitt t:p accounts of the outstanding
Exchequer Bills. Ordered to lie on the table.
On the motion of Mr. ROSE, returns of the quanti.y of cons,
grain, flour, dux. intputted to the twelve years from 1775 ttsl7ll4,
in the twelve years from 1736 to 1796, and In the twelve years
from 1799 to 1910, were ordered to be laid before the House.
Mr. Roe presented certain aceoutts from the Custom House,
which were ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. HAWARDEN preSell'eal the Accounts cf the produce of all
tales applicable to the pt.b:ic set vice, lifter pay.ng the charges of
the C•nsorillated
Lord FOLKESTONE begged leave again to defer the mo-
tion, of which he had given notice. from Tuesday to Thurs-
day WV.
On the motion of Sir FRANCIS BURDWIT, accounts of the
Pet proceeds of the Uutch shills and cargoes tak. t tinder the di-
rection and maoagement of the Lnylil East India Company, anti
of the Danish ships condemnesList the Admiralty and Ifko-Ad.
Mira:), Courts previou, to the declaration of war between gar
land and Denmark, were ordered to be laid before the Moss&
lie then moved for accounts of all ships condemned to the King
and the Lord High Admiral in the Courts of Admiralty since the
year 17911.—Orantod._
•
. _

Sir JOHN NEWPORT moved for Returns cf the net pro.
duce of the Costonts,Excie,Stamps,ilcc. in the years mhos
in January 1809, 'sin, 1811, anti tat?.
Mr. BROUGHAM gave notice of a Motion for Tuesday, for
Accounts of the Food of Dp.i.s of Admiralty, and returns at
he re•Sel% condemned, dist,nguishing such as had bees cos.
donned to the Crown, froai those caudetuned to the Lord Higta
Admiral.
Mr. H. M ARTIN withdrew the notice be had given of a nto•
n respectkg Sinecure Places. • •
Tint KING'S NnINIIIIOLD.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUEN
the Order of the Day.for tae Hook gong ipto a Committee of
the whok Hous,-, on so moth of the Lords Conuni•shiners,'
Speech is relates to his Ma*. y's Household, was read, and tUt
House resolved itself into the Committee.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
in rising to submit to the Committee those measures,
which, under existing circumstances, it might be pro-
per for them to adopt, felt it to be impossible to
avoid adverting to what had ueen the course pursued
in the-last Session of Parliament. Doing this, it was
not his wish to revive those controversies which bad
then taken place, but to take a proper view of what
was the present state of the great of ject of their dell-
beratient',.eompared with what it w.ts at the former
'period. The House must feel with great regret the
difference between the situation in which they were
placed at present and that in which they had former!.
iy stood. 'When last the subject came tinder their
consideration, they could not but recollect hoW san-
guine were their expectations of his Majesty's speedy
recovery, and they must necessarily beat in mind
what now was the prospect bef .re them. lhen they
had reason to hope that before any great length of
time had elapsed, the Sovereign would be enabled to
resume his Kingly functions ; but now, unfortunate•
ly, the prospect was very notch darkened. Instead
of having before them stateintints from the attendatsl
Physici trs, declaring time was a gieat probabihty
of his recovery, they had it now, on the authority of
the same persons, that recovery was very improba-
We, but yet not altogether hopeless. It WAS im-
possible not to see that different circumstances must
call forth dot erent measures. The course of human
actionimust necessarily be guided by rents. It `yak,

'

•

not for men to foresee erhatld actually occur,
and their best plans cotstil only be formed to meet
that which could rationally be expected. Formerly,
when recovery was probable, it was their dutyprima-
rily to look to the restoration of his Majesty to health,
and to the exercise of the Sovereign Authority, but,
at the same time, to guard against any inconvenience
that might arise from the temporary suspension of
the Kingly functions; now when recovery was stated
to be highly improbable. it was for them to look pri-
marily to the improbability of his Majesty's resum-
ing the Sovereign power, not leaving out of sight this;
it was possible he might yet recover. Formerly they
were called upon to make an arrangement which it'.
was probable circumstances would only render rims-
iary for a short period, now it was expedient to form
one wNeh might be expected to be permanent. The
state of his Majesty's health, at present, was repro-
seated to be such, that recovery was very improba-
ble, though not altogether hopeless. The Physician
who was most sanguine, Dr. Simmons, had stated,
that in younger cases about half the number a.; icted
!usually recovered ; but in cases of persons who were
more than seventy year; of age, the recoveries were
but as one in five. He had, however, addedohat in
.the case of the King, from the singular strength of
his Majesty's constitution, he should rasher class,
{rim with these who were but of sixty, than with
those who were seventy years of age. It was there. I
fore their duty, under all the melancholy circumstan-
ces of the case, to consider that as one in five of those
who were so afflicted when more than seventy years
,pf age, they were not to consider his Majesty's reco-
very as more hopeless than in that proportion, if the
extraordinary strength of his constitutic a. furnished no
additional ground for hope. He would now proceed
to lay before them what he conceived to be the'prin-
cipal objects which they had to keep in view. In
the first instance, the exercise of the Royal Au-
•thority being suspended in the person of the King,
it had been necessary for them to consider in
_What manner it should be supplied ; and in the
next place, they 'were to take into their considera-
tion the nature of the provision which it would be
necessary to. make for the maintenance and comfiirt
of the King during his illness. With respect to the
first, a provision had been already made for supply.
.ing the executive power, ;which gave to the Prince
.the full'pow‘r of Royalty at the expiration of 6 weeks
from the commencement of the present Sessions ; so
that, as the law now stood, bT about the 18th of
;February, all the autlacrity, as well as ail the duties
of the Sayereign, would devolve On him; and, uu-
Jess some provisions were made for his Majesty's
•Jousehold, the Civil List also. • If nothing were
done by Parliament, the Executive power would bet
eomplet ; but :here would be no arrangement for the
maintenance and comforts of the King. The House
'had had in their view, in the last Session cf Parlia-
ment, the necessity cf making such an arrangemertt,
and therefore provided that the restrictions on the Re-
gentshould continue until six weeks after the Houses'
had met, in order to give them an opportunity of
considering of what they were now called upon to
consider namely, of making a provision suitable to
'maintain the dignity, and supply the comforts which
were necessary to his Majesty's present situation.—
On this subject, two consideration:; naturally sug-
gested themselves ; the first was, from what fund,
and from what source, were the provisons and men-
dants to be drawn ? tl-e second was, as to the nature
anA extent of theprovision to be made? With respect
to the first, he thought he need have no hesitation in
saying, that his Ma;esty's rresent Civil List, and his
pesent officers and servants, t uotit to constitute the
fund and the source from which the necessary provi-
sions and attendants should be taken. It was not in
• the ordinary course of things, when making a provi-
sion for an individual, in his Majesty's present situa-
tion, to draw it from any other source than th:tt which
might be considered as peculiarly hi 6 own. In.making
the arrangement which he should have the honour to
propose, it was their duty )to look not only to the
probability or improbability of F. is Majesty's recovery,
ispt •to have in their contemplation another event,
4ebieli was perhaps mere likely and more probable
Xtt'an his ultimate recovery. That event was a par-
tial recovery, which, though not such as to fit him
for resuming the reins of Goveiiiment; might yet
afford him the means of tasting more comfort and
enjoyment than he could participate in at pre-ent ;
a state in which he might he so far restored to reason,
as to be sensible of what he was and what he is. In'
the event of his so far awaking to a sense of his situ-
tion, it was natural to suppose that his feelings would
be less hurt to find not merely the!serne incividuals
about him who had ',formerly attended him, but the
same officers he had been used to, than to find every
thing changed, and hirnself attended by new officers,
of whose names and of whosehrosineis he had pre.,
vionsly no knowledge. Thel-louse would feel, that,
in agreeing to any arrange:nate that might be pro-
posed,it was their duty not iti'deny any thing that
was necessary or desirable, but at the sante time to
be anxious, to pay propel attention to econpmy, and
to make the arrangement as little burdensome to the
public as possible. It was not, however, possible,
for any one who wok a view of the subject, to think
:that the double establishment necessary to maintain
a Regent and a Xing, could be conducted at as little
'expence as the establishment of the King alone.—
,Sorne additional provision, it would be seen, was ne-
cessary, and if a suitable and satisfactory arrange.
ment could be made, which would not occasion any
additional expence of more than i 670,000 Per annum,'
he trusted the appropriation of such a sum to that
purpose would not appear by any means an extraira-I
-glint or imprudent arrangement.. This increased ea.
penditure would be met by an addition to the Civil
List of €70,000. If he was right in thinking that
the present household of his Majesty was that to
which they ought to look to supply his Majesty's fu-
ture servants, he would propose to take from it the
highest officer, namely, the Lord Steward, *those
office had several duties belonging to it 'connected
with the person who' exercised the -Royal authority:
:The same, or nearly the same observation would
apply to the office of Lord Chamberlain. It was
necessary to pass by these. He should therefore come
to the' First Gentleman of the Bed Chamber, com-
monly called the Gloom of the Stole. This officer, he
thought, might properly be placed at the head of
the new establishinent. It was obvious the officer
to selected would of necessity have new d. ties to
perform, ae he would propose that the power of
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. .


superintending the whole establishment sliouldelee
conferred upon him—,lt was not however possible to
suppose that this Officer could always be In he spot;
he thereforeethought it would be necessary ppoint
a deputy far him. To All this office he w Id pro.
pose that auotheriedividual of known name and rank
—the Vice-Chamberlai should be selected. Some
of the Lords and Gr t ofeehe Bed-chamber, it
iti
would Be expected, sh d still be continued about
his Majesty. Feur of each he thought would be suf-
ficient amply, to perform all the necessa . uties, yet
not too many for that pur ose, He sh • therefore
propose that these sh selected f his Ma-
jesty's present househo . A Master of the Robes, ,
he thought, and seven Equerries, he thought, should
alsole continued, making the total number of per-
sons attendant on his Majesty, twenty-eight. The
Groom of the Stole would require a Secretary, and
it would also be.expedient that a private Secretary
should be appointed for her Majesty. This portion
of the Household, there could be no doubt, neelit to
be entrusted to the management of the person charg-
ed with the care of his Majesty, namely, her Majesty
the Queen. The principal Officers to be appointed
by her. Majesty, the sabordinate ones by the Groom
of the-Stole. To meet these arrangements he thought
it better at once to take a sum Out of the Civil List,
subject to the superintendance of the Treasury,• in
order that if the sum taken should be more than ne-
cessary, the surplus might be returned : and that if
there should be any excess of expence, Parliament
should be applied to, to make good the deficiency.--
The sum which he conceived would be sufficient for
this purpose, even were the King to remain at
iWindsor, was £lOO,OOO. This he conceived would
suffice, not only for the bill disbursements, but for the
payment of the salaries of all the Officers he had
named. He founded this statement on what had been
the expences of the King's establishment at Windsor
for the last year. He would now offer a few obser-
vations with respect to the nature of the provision to
be made. Nothing could be more extravagant than
to suppose that tae same number of equipages was
necessary for his Majesty in his present state as in his
former state. Taking this into consideration, he
found that the ex:enditure of the last year had been
~from a hundred and four to a hundred and eight
thousand pounds ; and he apprehended that the sum
he had mentioned would be enough for the support
of his Majesty, and fur providing every thing neces-
sary
to his present situation. At the same time it
would be obvious to the public that he did not call
for more than sufficient—(liar, hear.) He next
came tit consider the situation of her Majesty. k
could not he expected that she could continue (as she
had hitle.rto done in so exemp ary a manner) statio-
nary
; and it could not be doubted, that if for her
health or amusement she should find it necessary to
remove to any other part, a greater expence must be
incurred, to meet which some provision ought to be
made. With this fee ing, he thought it would not be '
unreasonable to grant her Majesty, for such purposes,
out of the Civil List, the sum of £lO,OOO a year.—
The last provision which it was necessary to consider
related to those pensioners who were the objects of
his Majesty's private bounty. These, he thought,
might properly be continued on that fund which had
hitherto borne them. It appeared to him that the
House would think it necessary to make some provi-;
sion for these, and in so doing to appoint an auditor
of the accounts connected uith them, in order to pro-
vide against any misappl;cation of the fund. He,
should propose the appointment of a Secret Commit-
teeesimil it to that of lest Session, to enquire into the ,
nature of these pensions. Ho would also propose
that his Majesty's medical attendants should be paid'
out ( f his Majesty's Privyeptiese ; this could nut ap-
pear unreasonable, as his Majesty would unquestion-
ably have defrayed those expences out of his Privy-
purse, had it remained at his disposal. He proposed
to take £lO,OOO from his Majesty's Duchy of Lan,
caster to meet in part the expellees necessarily incur-
red. These expences would altogether amount to
.€lBO,OOO a year, viz.—Jeloo,o(X) for his Majesty's
Household, 570,000 f r the Private Pensions, &c.
and £lO,OOO for her Majesty. Ten thousand pounds
of this sum would be derived (as lie had before stat-
ed) from the Duchy of Lancaster, and ‘70,000 from
the proposed addition to the Civil List. Theme re-
mained the deficiency of £lOO,OOO to be provided
for out of the Civil List, so that his Royal Highness
the Prince Regent would have £lOO,OOO a year less
than his Royal Father had enjeyed, For the ma-
nagement of his Majesty's private properly, he would
recommend the appointment of a Commission (one of
the Commissioners being a Master ill Chancery) to
be named by her Majesty and the Prince Regent.—
These commissioners should be empowered to ma-
nage and superintend the whole of these affairs, and
to call before them any persons therein concerned.—
They would act on oath, not to divulge the proceed-
ings which came before them, and being interested in
the manner in which the surplus was to be applied,
he thought they would be the most proper persons to
audit the accounts. He now arrived at the conside•
ration of the situation in which his Royal Highness
the Prince Regent havirg the Civil List eettuned
to him £lOO,OOO a year less than had been allowed
to his Majesty. The most easy way to enable
him to possess it to the same extent, would be to
vote at once 4100,000 out of the Consolidated
Fund, and extinguish his Exchequer Revenue.—
It was natural, however, to suppose, that the Prince
had understood the income arising to him out of the
Exchequer should be continued to him till he came
into the possession of the Monarchy itself. It there-
fore would not be fair to him, or to those who might
have claims on this revenue, to disturb that supply ;
and consequently the sum wanted should be taken
from some other quarter. The Houte might think
it better to leave that revenue, which they knew
amounted lo F120,000,-osthiect at present to a deduc-
tion of £12,000 per annum h r the income tax (which
would now cease); at the disposal of the Prince, and
that it might be unjust tikeeke from him the means
of satisfying the claims on him. He would however
propose, that of his Exchequer income, £50,000
should he transferred tq the Civ:l List, iasteed of be-
ing paid to him, whiCh would have of that fund
£70,000 untouched. It was to be presumed that the
Household expences of the Regent, .from the circttme
stance of his family teeing so much smaller than that
of his Majesty, would not be so great, In taking
therefore 5100,000 from the Civil List for the pur-
pose before stated, and adding to it from the Exche-
quer the sum of £5t),000, a diminution of £50,000

would remain, whidh it was thought might be dis-
pensed with on account of the Prince's smaller family, '
and consequently smaller expenditure. It would be
an act of ,injustice, he must observe, if they were to
transfer the Civil List to the Prince, as being solvent,
to defray the expences of his Majesty, when it was
notorious that this was not the fact. In order to
fully explain this, he had moved for 'the estimated
charges on the Civil List, as they were laid before
the House in I bOl, together with the actual charges
of each subsequent ysteaFrom these accounts it
would be seen that in r immediately following,
in 1805, the excess was *120,000, and in the sub w.
quent years up to the present time, as tpllows.:
•
Ix 1806 • - • £160,000
1807 • • 1311.000
1808 - • • • 89,000
1309 - • • 103,000
1810 • • • 143,000
1811 - • • 110,000

The average, it would be seen, might be taken at
123 or £l2•},000 annually. The House were aware
how this excess had been met, that it had been paid
not out of the public revenue, but out of the funds
arising from the excess of the Scotch Civil List, and
the Admiralty Droits. The House would feel it im-
proper to apply to the public to pay this excess as
long as there were other funds to meet it, but. it was
necessary in the event of any increase of the excess,
to give Parliament the earliest notice of it. It might
have been expected, that when it was found the ar-
rangements made in 1804. were insufficient to meet
the charges of the Civil List, that some notice would
have been taken of it, but no formal notice had been
taken of it from that time to the present. Ile would
propose that as long as, by means of unappropriated
fund's, the annual average excess of 23 or £214000
could be met, it should be defrayed by no other ;
but if it should increase so as to exceed its present
average by £lO,OOO, that shiuld be deemed surly kilt
to bring the subject before Parliament to meet their
animadversions, if they should be deserved. He was
I afraid that his statement would not be clearly under-
stood by many ; but with the indulgence of the
House, he would offer a few words on one other
point. He thought it would be nothing but what
must be felt to be perfectly reasonable to make some
provision for the expences which had already been
, incurred by his Royal Highness the Prince Regent.
When his Royal Highness ; first assumed the royal
functions, with sanguine hopes that his Majesty wool
soon be restored to his people, he had declined re
ceiving any assistance whatever. It could not, how
ever, be :opposed that he could assume the reigns
; government, in the name of his Majesty, witho t
incurring a very considerable expellee. To
this he should therefore propose a grant of the m
of £lOO4OO. He hid now stated all that ne-
cessary to bring before the House. The £1 ,000
lie had just mentioned, would, he though}, be
deemed a very small sum when the object to which
it was to be applied was considered. The £70,000
to be added to the Civil List, was the only per-
manent charge to be made on the Consolidated
Fund ; and, he trusted; the Committee would feel
that the arrangements necessary to be made` for the
splendour of the Regent and the comforts of the
King could not be accomplished at a less expence.
He therefore moved, that a provision shotild be made
for the purpose of enabling the Queen to meet the
increased expence, by granting, in aid of the Civil
List, the sum of £70,000, to be paid out of the Con-
solidated Fund.

Mr. PONSONBY entertained no disposition to
i criticise the propo,i!ions which the Right Honourable
Gentleman had submitted for the consideration of the
Committee, he only rose for the purpose of stating,
with the utmost deference, that those propositions ap-
peared to embi ace m•ne of than had ever
I been brought w;thin the view of Parliament. The
plan might, in his opinion, have been reduced to the
utmost simplicity. The considerations which natn- '
rally arose out of the plan were, in the first place,
what would be the amount of the expellee for carry.
ing the plan into effect ? and, secondly, whether
ground of necessity' ex:sts for inducing the Right
Honourable Gentleman to call up.n Radiomen
to burthen the countrimith thatripence? In entering
into these cnnsidzrations, he must reverse the order
presented by the Right
.Hon. Gentleman, and take
the latt.T part of the statement first. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had said that the Civil List expenditure'
was greater than the provision made, and that con-
sequently the Committee must expect to be called
upon to provide for the deficiency—that might all be
very true, but uninformed as he (Mr. Ponsonby) WAS
on the subject, it could not be expected by the Right
Hon. Gentleman that he would cume to the conchi-
sion desired. Before he would consent to enlarge the
revenues of the Civil List, he must have some better
proof of the necessity, than the mere allegation of the
Right Hon. Gentleman. The public would expect
to be satisfied also, that neither negligence nor extra-
vagance in the expenditure were to be found to cause
the excess. • Would any Gentleman be justified in
giving his vote without the othir proof ? The • most
simple way of bringing before Parliament the regula-
tions to be made, would have been this—you voted
certain sums necessary for the expences ache Crown,
and also for defraying the expences of the Govern-
ment. The revenues appropriated to the support
and splendour of the Throne, are about to be trans-
ferred to the person on whom the functions of Roy-
alty descended, in consequence of the unfortunate
situation of the Reigning Monarch—to that person
might be given all that Parliament, by its vote, had
thought necessary for the support of the Crown, and
to his discretion might be left the provision for main-
taining the splendour of his Majesty. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had said that the Report of the
Physicians must impress on the minds of every one,
that it was necessary for, the maintenance of his Ma-
jesty's state and civil comfort, that all the splendour
now proposed should be agreed to. There was nu man
more ready than he (Mr. Ponsonby) to contribute
to the comfort and happiness of his Majesty, if be
thought splendour in his gulortunate situation could
produce the desired effect—but on looking over the
evidence of the Physicians; he did not see one word
which could justify the opinion that statement con-
veyed. The Right Hon. Gentleman talked of the
s, middle state in which his Majesty might possibly
be placed," but the report did not even promise that
such would be the case. Did the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, When he attended the Committee, ever ask
the Physicians any question which could leas him to
expect that his Majesty would attain that state ? The

• .
questions lime all as to the sanity anti Intuit/ a4l
Monarch's mind, and the Physicians ail clineurredi
opinion that no such middle state was expected. Gee-
had said 5. it was a case withotit hope," 'ano;herthu
ot It was all but impossible he should recover." The
Right Hon. Gentleman would find little tong,
or consolation in the evidence of Dr. Sinunons 1,,t,
held similar opiiiioas, when he added, 4, that he
never knew an instance. ef a blind person morel.
ing from insanity—that in the whole of his practice
in the Hospital he had_ known seven or eight pn.
sons in that situation, and those he called unforte,
nate cases of the kind. What was there then el
the particular case of his Majesty, which trade;
larger establishment necessary ? Could his Nlaje,,t„
see any of the officers proposed to be 04E4
about his person t Was it in proof, in any eel
instance, within the last few months, that an
one of the high officers of the household had 4.
proached his person ? The !tight Hon. Gentiere4
might say, that his Maesty might at some funnel*.
riod return to mental health. The same ;not
have been said last year, when the restrictions on thi
Regent were proposed. But if his Majesty should
happily be relieved from his present calamitous cite;
ation, would not Parliament make provision for lee
resuming the regal functions, and necessarily pmt
for all the splendour attached to royalty? That
was another part of the plan which he did not this
necessary : it was proposed to allow her Major
£lO,OOO per annum, because his Majesty kept fee*
carriages and horses than when exercising the rivA
functions. Was that a reason for proposing this ak
lowance ? When the King was in health, he uteri
those carriages and horses, and, therefore, they coe4
not be necessary for the comfort of the Queen. With
respect to the propesition for taking £ejo3,ooo from
the Civil List, on the ground "that the family of th,
Prince Regent was not so large as the family of bit
Majesty, he (Mr. Ponsonby) WAS not much act!elia.
ted with the Civil List expenditrut. and could
offer an opinion, further than this, that he belie
that the greatest part of the expences arising ou
that revenue did not originate in the manner stated,
but would be the same whether the Sovereign's fa.
wily was great or small. All that he intended by
these observations was, to make it clear to the pubre
that the Parliament were justified in voting the ad,
ditional grants. There was another part of the phe
of whiZh he professed his ignorance, namely, the s.
cessity cf voting £lOO,OOO to the Regent for defrays
ing the expences of accepting the Government. 4
was well known, that on the occasion of the itrgesey
his Royal Highness refused to accept the Gavot
ment upon those terms ; therefore the Kiel( HA.
Gentleman could not now expect from Pariornee
any tote which was not strictly correct and fur._
Not having the whole of the Resolutions b.fote hits,
he was not prepared to comprehend the plan, time,
he did not mean to object to it in all its parts; 4
the same time, he wished that the reigning monad'
should have all the splendour which properly belook
ed to his station.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE4
did not think the. Resolutions, when on the Tsb
would give the Right Honourable Gentleman dal
particular insight into the plan, which he was so die
sirous of obtaining. The natural course of procmf
ing would be to wait until the Bill was before df
House, when the information would be afforded.
to the complication cf the plan, the Committee
would do him the justice to recollect. that he had as
expressed himself in detailing it ; and had referred
Gentlemen to the Bill, as better calculated to give
that necessary explanation. The Resolutions were
merely the first step; the Bill would be ready (if the
Committee agreed to the Resolutions) on Monday;
and the different stages might be discussed, as it was
not intended to be hurried through the Hour.—
When the Right Honourable Gentleman talked of
not comprehending the propositions, he wts at a kn.
to conceive what was wanting to induce that coo
prehension, for the Right Hon. Gentleman agreed
that his Majesty's comforts ware necessary. Wash!
not still our King. and was it fight that he shosli
be script of every appearance of dignity?—(Heir,
hear.) The Right Hon. Gentlemen appeared to
quarrel with the proposed app inuneirs about alai
Royal Person, and talked of their being too massy
Lords of the Bedchamber, Equerries, &c. because
the Physicians considered the case of his Majesty as
hopeless. He did not believe, though the Rill
Honourable Gentleman had made these objectiaes,
that he seriously entertained an opinion or wish a
his mind that the only establishment necessary vas
a comfortable maintenance in a sick chamber ; sane
he was that the feeling of the House, of the public,
and of the Right Honourable Gentleman, would
sanction such a vote—(licar, hear,) To +spout
with all the dignity attendant on the Sovereign ass
repugnant to the feelings of the nation at urge.
The Right Honourable Gentleman had insinuated
that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had not
disemarged his duty in the Comrui:tee, in not qua.
tioning the Physicians as to the probability of his
Majesty being restored to mental health ; but be
would ask in return, was there any thingln the stast
of his Majesty's health which required the Faitics•
La enquiry on that point ? and was it not necessa/
for Parliament to make provision for the resume.
tints of the Royal Authority in the person of *
Sovereign, if happily the period should arrive w
enable his Majesty once more to be able to esti'
cise the functions of Royalty Was not the Hew
aware, that up to the sth day of July (the pawl'
when the accession of disorier arose), his MAjarto
was in the habit of comma nicetion with 124 taat4
On more than one oecasion be (Mr. Perceval) bag
the happiness of an interview with his Majesty, Ida
was competent to all the pa. poses of common intet
course, and feelingly alive to the situation in *l4
be was unfortunately plated; and though the Wei'
sion prevented him from resuming the ltopsi Fetes'
[ions, yet he was capable of enjoying common tsar
course, so far as the calamity under which Die fir
bowed would permit. Would the Commute!,
causetis Majesty's calamity was great, abstain
rendering to turn that corutort which, when ren
would make it sit lighter ? He thought not.
thesesore trusted that they would agree to u 4
lotions.
Mr. PONSONBY had not the most distant.
of depriving his Majesty deny thing necess..ry
to his comfort or ctinity ; but lie wished to
whether the Civil Lit° aevenue would n..t .15
the hands 01 the Prince of Wales t Would

/tr

.1

-

A

ehnets feel for die ebmfort of his Royal
1012. if Parliament were to place those reve-
ould he not make such a dii-
spout, tr.
pluatsthrrat.hlisnsidi,
mild contribute not only to his Majes.
position AS
f INtit also to his splendour and dignity ?
tr's c°l7l-"t.' on the subject, he would ask the Right
while he wAr
able
flotpUr Gentleman a question Did !he • Right
an consider the claims of his
gooeurable Gender,
Highness to t e arrears.of the revenue arising
/16.74. ch of Cornwall as given up ;or was
fon Highness at liberty to 'apply to the House
hii Royal of would any proposition be made
fa those arrears:
,eleecting them _
—the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
could
senot have any thin to propose on the subjec
claims. When they were before Parliat -
" the understanding was then, that under the
Itlrttge nc made with his Royal Highness, the
tished. It was a mistake, there-
,cirstnihad been relinq
se, that any such claim, would he raised.
fere to _ _
Mr. TIEI NE Y sa;d, he did n t r;se to oppose the
levantion, but to make a tew observations which he
eh eccssarstatementl the statement made by the
Glitrt n
obcellor of the Exchequer. It the £lOO,OOO to
ea Prince Regent were stated as necessary to make
rod the out-goings he had been put to, and:to cover
diripences of the year, he ha no objecion ; but
he mint owe, he felt great reluctance to be tcalled on
this night to vo:e £lO,OOO without more fully under.
oridinn how it was to be applied. There were now
two great
statement, o
p "nts befoie the House ; for it seemed,
there were to be two Courts
taotte said to be of necessity, the other constituno.
Dak—FOr that which was -to be held bythe Queen,
for the comfort, as it was said, of his Majesty, he
could see no reason. He denied that any pat tof the
splendour allotted to majesty can be said to apply to
the man--it was given Vilely to_the kingly office. If
it could for a moment be supposed to attach to the
he believed no one ever deserved it more than
George the Third. The .project seemed, however,
robe, that the Queen should have a C. .urt of splen-
m, on the part of the King; and the Prince Re-
pt bhnuld have another, as he naturally ought to
10,e, who was to represent his Majesty, and to wield
ca administer the whole of the royal authority. As
(„the Queen's Court, he confessed he could not seu
be* it was necessary but he saw very clearly that
rend be dangerous. Considtring most seriously
• tte afflicting situation of his Majesty, he would have
every thing done that could by any means contribute
vihis comfort;' but saw no reason for surrounding
hie with splendour. He could see no necessity for
each officers being about his person, as a Groom of
the Stoke, tour Lords of the ikaicha:nber, &c. as had
Ire enumerated by the Rig.it Hon. Gentleman,
from which lie interred, that three new offices were to
be created. [Here Mr. Perceval said across the
table--44 To be paid out t f that fund."] 6, I care
sot (continued Mr. Tierney) cut of what fund they
re to be paid. I make a distinction between neces.
icy and influence ; and I think this is done to give
the Queen a greater power than she ought to have."
The kight Honourable Gentleman then proceeded :
to observe, that he did not know what reason there
could be in the provision made last Session, that the •
restrictions should not cease till after Parliament had
at sir weeks, unless it were for the purpose of mak-
ing Conditions, or a sort of contract, that before the
enaictions should be taken off,. the Regent should
ere to establish another Court, with powers and ap-
pendages, nearly, if not quite equal to his own. The
situation of the King had been such, as to shew, be-
todd a possibility of doubt, that ever since the mid- ;
dye of July last, the restrictions were highly unjust,
and ought from that time to have ceased, as the hope I
on which they had been founded had at that time
totally vanished ; and by not calling Parliament till
the period he did, the Right Hon. Gentleman had
unnecessarily prolonged the continuance of the re-
srictions. Was it not, he asked, a fact, that the o
Groom of the Stole and the four Lords of the Bed-
chamber, were never for a moment permitted to be
attodance on his Majesty's person, during the
Choi° time the symptoms were so favourable as to
the the least hopes of the King's recovery ? How,
en, should it now be necessary, when every hope of
that kind had vanished, that there should ht., new
Court, consisting of those various officers, unTess it
trete lot the purppses of influence ? He should be glad
to know whether this state, which was to be given to
the Quitn.for the splendour of the King, was to be
an abridgement of the splendour of the Regent ; and
that the Regent should have only eight Lords of the
liedchahiber, and the King four ; or whether there
acre to be four additional lords of the Bedchamber. .
' Its the plan now stands, said he, a sum of XI MOO.
is to be given to the Queen, expressly to provide for
the comfort and splendour of the King. The Queen
is also to feceive aliother sum of £lO,OOO, to which
should be added sesB,ooo, which she had already; so
that the Queen would altogether have nearly £200,000
toenly ttir splendour. The Queen had in her own
' rtgu a Master of the Horse and a Vice-Chamberlain,
and Gob fcrb d she should not have them ; but he
Irr en reason why these high Officers of the Shinn
.Nould not ago do for the King, without in any manner
kilning either his comfort or his splendour. He beg-
ged leave to observe, that he did not mean at that me-
bent to make any positive objections to the items he
.
mentioned, for he was not fully informed concern-
torgs them. Oa the subject f the Civil List, the
satancellor of the Exchequer expected there would
be a reduction on account of the family of the Prince i
Regent not being so large as that of his Majesty; but I
in this po nt he did not so clearly comprehend ltit
112 ratting as to be able to coincide in opinion with le:nt.
,
Chancellor had, however, admitted, that the sum
veted to the Civil List in 1601, in addition to the
400,000 antecedently granted, was £60,000, and yet
there was at the end of the very next year an exceeding
of expence of 8124,000, and that in every year since'
there had been an exceeding, though not always id
the same amottat. The Right Honourable Gentle-
man had told the House, they must make up their
minds to it ; but certainly if the Prince were to accept
this artangetnent, it was necessary that every thing
relating to it should be perfectly understood. lithe
Civil List of Scotland, and the Droits of the Admi-
ralty, should continue to exceed £124,000, then it
' seemed Parliament. was to hear no more of it; but if
these two sources should not be so productive, it was
to be otherwise. The House ought to know
' • and therefore should not, in his opinion, be
called on to vote the resolution this night. It was
71°1 his intcation to trouble the House so far as to put