Star.
London, England, 1831-08-10 00:00:00

-

Conference, and wilt the concluehon of the kJ. g of Hui
lad's answer ,t the notification of the eighteen articles,
than the accession to the throne of Belgium of a Prince
who ':ad subscribed to an oath incompatible with the tub-
,. rvatice of the resolution to which his Majesty had as-
a toed was the asetimittion on the part of Belgium of a hos-
tile attitude tow ads Holland. The Conference on receiving
this anewer, dot not .I.ery his right to resume hosti-
e•. Ile eleneidere d that, coupled with 'he previous decke-
re• mof Holland. the mete •of having recourse t the votes
-aire was ample and etifficient.—(hear, hear.) Tne si-
let c •.t. the Dutch envoy was explained by his ignorance of
the prrri.e cotation of the recourse to military means.
As to Belgium. a direct notice had been ;ken of the re-
suminthel of hostilities. Ate to responsibility. hr considered
it re.ted, not with the King of Rolland. hut with those
itei had violated their engagements with him.—( Hear.)
lie regretted that Prince Leopold should have accepted
tic Orate of Belgium. That aeeeptance involved Eng
land. and separated her front ilollar.d. (Hear, hear.)
Nor did he think his election tl4sennite reed Belgonn forma
Freese. Already had new the King of Belgium applied to
France for sueen..r, inster.,l or to the C ..ference ? (Hear.)
Front a late declaration of M. Lebeau, it would appear that
the clime-ion between the tan countries was to be drawn
slant. But the principal point was our disconnection with
Holland. At no period hail such disgust at our diplomacy
been excited, as that which now prevailed in Holland. fie
emit.) not but consider the nomination of Prince Leopold as
cormected with our alienation front Holland, the modifica-
tion in the resolution of the Conference being subsequent to
his election, and repeated declaration in the B.dgian Con-
geese. tending to that conclusion. He had no wish ulti-
mately to interfere vrhh pending negociations ; but Olen an
ancient and faithful ally was being sacrificed to the unjust
encroachments of the revolutionary spirit, it was high time
for r.oble lords to declare their disapprobation. (
Lard CA RNARVON said, Ministers treated tan Ih:idly
the events now occurring on the Continent. Was the'.
march of 50,000 Frenchmen into Belgium s slight still:et
of alarm ?.--(Hear.) Ministers said every thing had been
done with the concurrence of the Conference. Had this hot
act of France been submitted to the previous sanction of the
Conference ?—(Hear.) The allusion made by a noble Lord
to certain foreign Ministers, was not of a nature to warrant
the grave rebuke of the Learned Lord.—(Hear.) The re•
bake was ill fit to accompany the Learned Lord's attack
tipiin an illustrious sovereign, whom, as the object of the in-
justice of his colleagues, he would have shown better taste
i not insulting —( Hear, hear.) Ministers were crouching
'to Foince, leaving Europe to its fate, and out allies to theit
enemies. He should not support the motion, as the papers
moven' for could not, it was said, with propriety be pro-
duced. Bat he would tell Ministers, that the country looked
at their foreign policy with suspicion and alarm.—(Hear.)
Lord HOLLAND said, if the opposition wished for in-
formation it should move for the whole of the documents ;
if it wished to bring odium on the Government, it should
move a vote of censure. The wish of the Opposition seemed
to he war, and war on anti-revolutionary principles—(No !)
Had they not been on every occasion reeking to inflame the
Courts and the country? (Hear.) With respect to the
raises bestowed on the King of Holland, he would only
control them that he had not been able to conciliate two.
thirds of his sollects. It was the separation of Belgium
tram Holland which haltered the King. But with that
separation the present Government had to connection ; they
had found it etieeted when they entered office. lie knew no
prliatnentary or practical object the motion could have. The
object was to drive Ministers to pay something on which
th;:y could titatsn a charge—or to drive the country into a
war ; but time great object of the whole was to get rid of the
l 'ortn Bill— (hear. )
Tic Earl of CA RNA RVON said, he had been thirty-
sotett years a member of Parliament, and had never "eked
er received any favour from any minister. Those by whose
e:Je he had I ing fought the battles of civil and religious
ahetty would do Min the justice to remember, that he had
etways opposed any measure of extensive Patliamentary
L dtorum, which he had always considered revolutionary.
The Marquis cf LONDONDERRY said, as the noble
earl hail stared that the production of the papers nilAbt be in-
jarious to the public interest, he should not press his motion.
—The noble lord withdrew his mot'on.

The bills on the table were forwarded in their respective
st. got, and the house adjourned at a quarter-past 11 o'clock.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The House Whined for a Committee to try the merit*
pf the petition complaining of an undue mum for the Jed.
burgh district of Burghs.
The :IL:tubers of the Committee were subsequently sworn
at the table. _

Mr. HUNT presented a petition from the working claws
tai Manchester for a repeal of the corn laws. He had read
the petition, and thought it contained nothing to which the
most fastidious Member of the House could object.—The
petition was ordered to lie on the table and be printed.
Mr. WOOL) asked, whether the hen. member for Dorset
( Mr. Portman) meant to proceed with his hilt for the amend-
ment of Highway Acts during the present Session.
Mr. PORTMAN said, he was aware that government
could not attend to the subject during the present Session,
cid hoped they would next session, in which expectation be
aiiould withraw it for the present.
Mr. LAM B was satisfied of the importance of the mu-
st re, which he was confident would receive the attention of
g..velnment next session.
Mr. HUNT presented a petition from the Westminster
Union of working classes for the repeal of the corn laws.
Toe petition was read by the Clerk : it stated that many of
the people had fallen victims to the despotic corn laws.
Lord ALT HOR P said, the language of the petition was
too strong to be used in the house.
Mr. HUNT said, the language was certainly strong, but
it was true. If the noble lord thought that starving people
wive not to use strong language, he must expect human
nature to be constituted dilTerently from what it was.
Mr. HUM f said, he thought the petition ought to be
I.l.hdrawn. He was confident such language could only in.
j re the cause in which it was used. It tended to cast
ridicule on petitions.
tyc, iNNELL hoped the petition world be with.
It was merely an experiment to try how far they
eis.ild go without causing their petitions to be rejected, and
bliaSiad not be persevered io. (Hear.)
Mr. HUNT said he should not oppose the wishes of the
louse, but withdraw the petition ; but he thought he was
to acknowledge that he had been in the habit of using
loci. language out of the house, (A laugh.) The corn laws
had not been passed by the representatives of the people,
tut by nurnin, co; and he thought himself perfectly justified
in saying they were tyrannical. for they were passed at the
vn: of the bayonet.
'flit petition was withdrawn.
IRELAND.

Mr. O'CONNRLL said that the right hon.
secretary for Ireland was not in his place. as he wished to
him some questions respecting the administration of jos.
itu in Ireland ; in particular relative to the late trials In
Kilkenny ; and also to move for copies of a report made by
Perrin, wi.o was sent to prosecute parties for an outrage
committed at 31agban on the 18th of December, where 290
tir,rgetuen entered the little town with arms, actl tiles and
buglo.; put the inhabitants to tight, destroyed almost all
their property, and pulled down two houses. The parties
were prosecuted by the Crown. and all the Orangemen la ere
acquitted, and the Catholics found guilty. There was per-
fect impunity fur out party and no justice for the other. lie
meant to move for copies of the con
Mr. CRAMPTON (the Solicitor-General for Ireland)
complained that notice had not been given by the Hon.
and Learned Member of his intention to propose such
questions to the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland. The
House might feel assured that no one was more willing
than the Right lion. Gentleman to answer any questions
that alight be put to him in bit place. He (3lr. Cramp•
ton) had authority to state, that on due notice being given,
that Right liou. Gentleman would, even at much personal
sacrifice, attend in his place, for the purpose of answering
am questions. As to the statement of the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman, it was astonishing that the ver-
dicts of several junk, was opposed to it. He was there-
fore persuaded that the individual who bad furnished the
facts, had formed his estimate upon a partial slew of the case,
and bad therefore greatly ezauerared di t circumstances.
Reliance ought certainly to be placed Open the verdicts of
juries and the coed= of Judges j end if an Hon. and
Learned Oen/Susan had rocolved statement!! Rum third
persons who might be bet partfily informed, implicit ro-1
hence should not be placed on their statements to the
coedit of the verdict of a jury, and i administration se
law by the blab Judge&
,tlr. O'CONNELL flailed that be had taken the house by
surprise in mentioning this subject j and lota the resppeecets.
laility of his isfonnotiosa,bs would only say that a aoblsmossl
dhigh wok. well INgsbod with the circumstances,
_sr.
his IMO of hillss and be bionealf bad man she nigh
TM sayelites dasemessin be wolidisitendon was, ibis the'
Crows Sashes bid amid is Callit that Ise bad remind
trinsetioas is dials. di Os s.

~ ..

Mr. CRAMPTON would only beg leave in the my
torongest manner to state, that no such instructions had ever
been given by the Government of Ireland sines he had the
honour to be connected with it, to the Crown Solicitor.—
Their investigations had been, in almost every listener, con-
ducted with the most perfect impartiality, ar4,30 distinction
of either sect or party had ever been made itsllleir adminis-
tration of justice. No man was more anxious to administer
justice impartially than the Attorney-General for Ireland,
and he was utterly incapable of giving such instructions.
Mr. LEADER admitted great respect MIL due to the
statetneins of the lion. and learned Solicitor-General for Ire.
land, but if the jury laws were not most materially changed,
a stigma would certainly be left upon juries which could not
be wiped away. He was moat anxious that the atigma should
he removed, it Narita; been alleged in the court-house of
Kilkenny, that the Crown solicitor acted under the sanction
of Govertii.ient. when every Catholic upon being called to
the jury.box was put by, and every liberal Protestant re.
jected also. That was a state of things which could hot be
endured in Ireland, rendering, as it did, the property and
lisc of every Protestant p oprietor alike insecure. It was
dis,zme• ful to the interests of justice, and in direct violation
of a hat should be the conduct of any Government that
wished to maintain itself as a Christian Government in a
l'nristian country. (Hear, hear.)
Capt. GORDON said, the house should not be too teady
to give implicit credit to statements made in that house
re,pecting l!eland. He could give the house one instance
in which an extraordinary statement had been made without
the I:ast foundation. It had been stated that Cite Grand
Jhry of C.rlow bad drank as a toast at their public dinner,
" (Tor fret on tilt necks of the Papists in cold blood." On
the, statement being made he wrote over to Ireland, and had
'calved letters keen two 01 the Grand Jury, declaring that
no such mast haul been drank—that no such expression had
been us,AI. Tarr Chairman had since, in the public prints,
belated the rep.it to be untrue and libellous. So much for
the faith that was to be put in some of the statements that
were conveyed to members of that house.
11e. O'CONNELL said he was prepared to prove every
syllable, and more than every word he had uttered at the
bar. Colonel Rochford had not stated in his letter, which
heti appeared in print, that the report was libelous ; he had
only raid no such toast had been given while he was in the
chair, and nobody alleged that it bad. He (Mr. O'Connell)
was ready to prove at the bar of time house, that, on the
very occasion alluded to, these four toasts were given :
First, " Capt. Graham, and the brave Yeomanry of New-
townbarty ;" secondly, " Our heels on the, necks of the Pa-
p.sts in cold blood." (Hear.) Thirdly, " The Pope in the
pillory of bell, and the devil pelting him with priests." (Im-
mense laughter.) Fourthly, " King William the Third, who
delivered us trim the fangs of the Papists," &c. &e. This,
be raid, he had from such credible end very good authority,
and also from parties who had voluntarily tendered them.
selvee to appear at the Bar and support the truth of it, that
be could not for a moment believe it was false. Further,
three or four Magistrates of the county of Carlow were in
the room at the time ; and the person alluded to (we sup
pose Capt. Graham) desired the doors to be opened, that
all :he people in the house might hear. When an hon.
member thought proper to rise up and contradict these
facts, what would the house think of the authority of one
capable of swearing—actually swearing that Roman Catho-
lics Roman Catholic Priests could nun persons into
bears and goats ? (Laughter.)
Captain GORDON denied that he hid ever sworn any
such thing. lie had said that there were those who believed
Catholic pries.s were capable of turning of people into hares
and gnus, but he had never sworn it.
Mr. BLACKNEY said, as a member for the county of
Carlow, he felt it incumbent on him to say, that there could
hot be a doubt that the offensive toasts mentioned by the
honourable member for Kerry, had been drunk in the grand
jury room, while several of the grand jury, and several ma-
gistrates were present. There were witnesses of the high.
est respectability ready to be examined at the bar of the
house to prove it.
Mr. KENNEDY said he was sorry to have to state that
the hon. member for Dundalk (Capt. Gordon) had written
to parts of Scotland, which he thought capable of being
inflamed, urging them to petition for the repeal of the
Catholic Relief Bill—(hear.)
Mr. STANLEY observed, that having unfottunately
come late into the House, he had some difficulty
at first to know the question, he would, however,
before he went into that, just observe upon the
remarks that had been personally made towards himself.
Nothing could give him greater concern than that any mem.
ber of that house should suppose that he had absented him.
8.21 f for the purpose of evading any questions. He would
put it to those connected with official situations, and who
were connected with them now, to say whether it was not
necessary for them to devote a great part of the day to the
duties of those offices. In those duties he had been en-
gaged, and that was the only reason why he was not In his
place. If gentlemen had questions to put to him he should
be happy to give every facility In answering them, If they
would only have the goodness to git• him previous intima.
don of their intention. With respect to the other part of the
subject, lie could have no objection whatever to produce the
case, and the opinions which had been given by the law
officers of the Crown upon it. (Hear, hear, hear.) With
respect to the introduction of offensive toasts, On the intima-
tion that government had of such toasts having been given,
inquirls were made into the subject, with a strict dear* to
ascertain whether such toasts had been drank by any perm*
under his Majesty's government. He had received a letter
from the Foreman of the Grand Jury, declaring that during
the whole time of his presence no such toasts had been drunk ;
that nothing of the kind bad occurred, and if it had been
proposed, he would not have allowed it. He was, however,
bound to say, ilia. at a very late hour the very offensive toasts
mentioned weredrunk by Grand Jurors and others, of which
they were all heartily ashamed the next morning ; but as no
persons connected with governnuat were parties to the pro.
ceeding. he thought it was unnecessary to institute any fur. •
titer inquiry, either at the bar of that house or otherwise.
Mr. SHELL said, it was now admitted that the scene
described by his hon. friend had taken place, and be thought
some proceedings on the part of government should follow.
Magistrates were parties to it, and he thought they ought
not to be allowed to continue in the commission of the
peace. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Dundalk had
denied that he had sworn that there were Catholics in Ire.
land who believed that their priests could turn them into
hares or goats. He was astonished when he heard the
hon. gentleman make the assertion; but as he knew the
fact was on record he went to the library, and now held in
his hand a book containing • copy of the hon. gentleman's 1
evidence on oath before a commission, which he would read
to the house. The hon. gentleman read the evidence in
which Captain 'Gordon stated, that he hod rut a doubt the
Catholics of Ireland believed that their priests could turn
them into bares and goats. (The house was convulsed with
laughter.) He implored the hon. gentlemen not to make
nee of the accident that had made him a member of that
house for a Catholic town to Natter Meta ands throughout
Ireland. (Hear, hear.)
Sir It. PEEL thought it was peculiarly unfortunate that
statements should be made respecting Ireland which were
calculated to excite the strongest feehngs, and to which no
contradiction could be given at the moment. The Hon.
Gentleutan had a right to make the statements ; but if he
would give such notice as would allow et a contradiction or
explanation being given at the time the statement was
made, it would tend to prevent excitement in Ireland.—
(Hear, hear.)
Lo.d TULLAMOKE said, the offensive toasts were
drunk after the greater part of the Grand Jury had left the
roton.—( lieu, hear )

.04•1111 OF BELGIUM.

The SPEAKER having called on Sir Richard Vyvyan,
Lord PAL NI RRSTON rose and said, he tuyed hie boo.
friend, under the peculiar eircsinstancie of LJgium at the
present moment, and their critical state, would deem It ex-
pedient to postpone his motion, u discloturee at the present
moment might be attended with great inconvenience, and the
probability was, that the object of his hon. friend's motion
might speedily be obtained without any itironsenicnce. A
communication had been made to the king of the Nether-
lands u soon as it was known that he ha marched his
troops into Belgium, to which an answer would probably be
received to-morrow or the day after. If the negoolations
should continue, the Su powers would continue to act as
mediators n and he would submit to his hon. friend whether
disclosures at present would not he premature and laces,..
Want. As far as his own personal censorious was eon.
awned, he would u soot enter into explanation now as at any
time—it.wu merely on public grounds he asked for delay.
(Hear, hear.)
Sir RICHARD V YVYAN said, it was far from being
his wish to produce inconvenience, but he thought the King
or the Netherlands bed ban hartilymmd; be bad hien at-
tacked in that house but net defended. Giese, ham) Bat
afire wbasehe noble lard bad mated Would not proceed with
hismedeo at present, but Weald postpone it to Thursday,
by Which time an answer might be received from the King
of the Netherlands.
Lord STORMONT asked, whether she Fronds goyim

met had detained the Dutch ships in the port of Dunkirk ?
Lord ALTLIORP said, no official information had been
received. _ .

Mr. BOLDEN asked whether there was any agreement
between France and England to repel the Dutch Invasion of
Belgium ?
Lord MILTON implored his noble friend not to answer
the question. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. DIXON asked whether any measures had been taken
for the protection of British subjects at Brazil.
Lord PALMERSTON said there was a ship of war at
Rio Janeiro, and another was on the way. Government
would take effectual means for the protection of British
subjects.
Colonel WOOD presented a petition from Merthyr-Tydvil
against being joined with Cardiff in the election of a repre-
sentative.