Star.
London, England, 1812-05-22 00:00:00

Parcil snapixexusiitifli***:.

Administration, .tnileis something web done to con-
ciliate the Catholics. He had always voted against
the Catholic question ; but now he was of opinion
that all opposition against it was vain. • He should
feel comfort if any efLrt of his should. be successtul ;
but in order to the completion of his wish, he advls-
ed the Opposition t. abstain from that manner and
language which ory irritated feelings in a certain
quarter, and threw difficulties in the way of the Ad-
ministration, and exposed the House to the ridicule
of the vulgar. His motion involved no one ;he had j
consulted with none on the subject, and did not even
now know whether it would be seconded. It was I
not, however, till after the most pstient deliberation
that he had made up his mind to move-4, That an
humble Address ZA presented to his Royal Highness
the Prince Regent, praying him to take such mea-
sures as would enable, him, under the present cir-
cumstances of the country, to form a strong and effi-
dent Administration."
Lord MILTON seconded the motion;
Mr. EYRE opposed it as unprecedented and un-
constitutional. There never was such a motion
before, and the blen,e had no right to interfere with
the prerogative of Majesty in the neminatioa of its ;
own servants. He agreed in the inefficiency of the
present Administration, and regi cited that a larger
number had not he, n called into it, and that it had
not united all the ililitiesiof all parties : but had no
attempt been made to to s purpose The public
pretty well knew from certain quarters, that applica-
tions had been made to persons of ackr_nwledged
abilities, who had declined them on grounds which
might be good to themselves, and for scruples which
he could not but respect :—but that was no reason
why the present Administration should be censured
for not endeavouring to ealarge itself.. Those per-
sons would not come forward unless certain 91,cqlons
were conceded to them, such as had received the
sanction of-the Hi use, and he trusted the approba-
tion of tee country. He placed not much reliance
upon the prophecy of the Honourable Gentleman.—
, He had seen Administrations, reported to be weak,
conduct themselves r•itli vigour : and on the other
hand, he had seen high abilities grievously disap-
point the House and the country..H.e did wish to put
a negative on the present n!ozi;n ; but as it would be;
more c •nsistent with the feelings of soine Gentlemen, ,
he should c.include by moving, that the other ordeal'
of the day be read.
Lord bIILTON laid, the House wraill cot per:
form its duty to the country, utiles; it either accaled
to the original motion, or put a difect negative upoee
it. As to its being unconstitutional in the House to
i aerfere with the prerogative of the Clown hi the
appointment of its own seri ants, it was not only the
province and right, but the bouecten duty of the
House, when they thought they saw a Government
about to he formed which possessed not the confi-
dence of the public, to interfere rad advise the Sove,,
reign of that fact. The Administration bad, by
vainly endeavouring to enlist others in support of the
relicks of the last Government, confessed that 4jsey
felt themselves incompetent alone to carry on the
business of the nation. These who Lid been applied
to had, to their honour, refused, not upon personal
and individual grounds, but upon material political
questions, in which it was impossible for diem to
coincide with the rest of the Administration :—and
would the House wiAl to see a Government of a dis-
.cordant nature, some of the Members of which were
pledged for, and some against, the Catholic question?
—Sutely,' if any thing was calculfited to destroy the
eonfidence-of the people .in a Government, it was
such discordanCe and such jarring. But it was.not
a mere change of persons that would satisfy the
country ; it was a change of measures which could
alone enable a Mini.iny to stand with security to
themselves and advantage to the public.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT thought the Address
defective, inasmuch as no change would give satisfac-
tion or security to the country, unless it was under-
stood
that it should not be a mere change of person;,
but also a change of system altogether. The Ministers
of the Crown ought to be men who either stood pledg-'
'ed, or would give a pledge; that they would apply
; the national resources to national objects alone, that
they would act on large and liberal principles, and
admit alt men, whatever might be their religious
tenets, to the benefits of theConstitutiou. ( Hear, hear.)
And more, though in this he might not have so many
concurrent voices, that they would en omote the cause
of Parliamentary Reforna. Without reform, on fair
and constitutional principles, as a security for other
beneficial measures, no Administration could ever be
strong enough to rescue the country from the dangers
and difficulties to which it WAS now exposed.. Though
he did nut wish to enter into the discussion at any
great length, he felt it necessary, with reference to
the present question,. to advert to what had happened
on former occasions, and how the political situation
orthe country had been affected by changes of Ad-I
ministrations. A variety of administrations had been
formed in the course of the last fifteen years. At one
time, we had an Administration supposed to combine
in itself almqst allithe political talenuiof the nation. At
other times,.we hid Administrations excluding almost
all men of great political talents. During this period
they had seen at the head of affairs some men of un-
rivalled abilities, especially one man of the highest
abilities—he meant Mr. Pitt—during whose Admi-
nistration the peculiar difficulties and dangers in
which this country was at present infolvedhad arisen.
In the course of the same period wt: ad seen Mr. Fox
at the head of affairs,. a man of no lees ability. We
had seen Administrations including all parties, others
excluding all parties. excepting their own narrow
parties ; but the system bad still continued ; and,
under this system, whatever was the Administration,
the btirthens, the difficulties, dangers, and evils of
the country, had gone on increasing. Recollecting
all this, he could not consider this recommenda-
tion of a mere change of men, for such be con-
sidered as a specc for our inemees. At dm

•,4

; • .

unit-time he was far frofii agriehig ivitlid iiii• Ho;
pourable Gentlefnan who moved the proceeding tti
the orders of the day, in the opinion that the mo-
tion for the Address was unconstitutional. This
was a function belonging to the House, and one which
might be most beneficially employed. Indeed, it was
the great- business of the House to apprise the Sove-
reign of the real situation of the country; and the
real sense and feeling of the people, of which those
persons who were usually about the Court were so lit- '
tae likely to inform him. .But he was fully persuaded,
that however enlarged the views of any Minister—
whatever might be his vigour and understanding, he .
could not, without a Parliamentary Reform, ham-
pered as he must be by the present system of corrup-
tion, carry his own views into effect. rf the ques-
tion had therefore come forward, merely as an ob-
jection to the actual arrangement of the present Ad-
ministration, he should not agree to it on that ground
—for, in that view of. the case,• it might be Aairly
'said, that the Prince had a right to appet.rinx his own
Ministers—(lfrer, heard and that the House curet
to wait till they had some experience of the talents
of those whom he had chosen, when possibly it might
be found-that the person of whona they had been de-
Iprived had not possessed all the ability of the Acimi-
-1 nistratitart-but that it could go on under the Noble
r Lord over the way, as efficiently and beneficially op
when beaded by the late Mr. Perceval. In the Piet .
which he had Rated, this would be perfectly nal
turid and fair language. _The Primo ought to h'ays!
the appointment of Ins Ministers—end keys presume
that he has so much common sense as to appoipt pan
sons deserving of confidence till we tiod it other-IT/mei' •
by exivrience. Let us wait a little, theretcre, and
not come to any premature decisron. But this was
not the light in which he viewed the :object. It wise
of the last importance, that the- Sovereign should he
apprised of the real state of the country, and that fie
should be -informed of the necessity of adopting cows
ciliatory measures with regard to Ireland; that he
should be told that a great dissatisfaction Ins(' spread
thiongliout he countr3, and that some hopes of die
adoption of conciliatory measures should be held out
to the people. No opportunity could be betteir fur '
this purpose than the present, when a new arrangs-
mtnt was about to be formed. He must, however,.
propose an amendment to the motion, for, without
a change of system, he conceived the recommenda
tiun to form a strong Administration quite nugatory. ",
If the present system continued, he saw no objctt
that might not be accomplished-by the present Ad.
ministration, at- well as any alien His design was
to point out to the Prince, sot the propriety of a
change of men merely, but the necessity of a-change
of system—and he would read to the House the sub-
,stance of his intended amendment.
t 'rite Speaker infermed the Hon. Baronet, that it •
could not as this moment be regularly moved.l
He was perfrealy areas of that, but still he might
put the• House in possession of the substance of it,
which was, that the Fiance thonld form an Adrninis.
trati,,s, which would apply the national resources to
national objects—extend the benefits of the Constitu-
tion to all classes of the community without distinc-
tion--adopt conciliatory measures towards the peo-
p:e, and restore to the country the advantage of a flee
representation. -
Mr. WILBERFORCE complimented the Hon. '
Member wh/ had brought this subject under djscue.
sion, observing that he had dime it in a way that did *
hilt the highest credit. His Honourable Friend had
said that lie thought it more manly to bring
iforward
the matter before the arrangements were completed,
and the Administration sensed. To that he had only
this one objection—that it was unconstitution•d—
(Hear, hcar,) and in his opinion, it was far better to
adhere to the principles of the Constitati. n on all oc-
casions, than to violate them for the sake of any tem.
porary advantage. The first departure from Consti-
tutional principles always took place with a view to
some immediate advantages—but when they consi-
dered the connection between all these principles, and
the confusion introduced by a departure from any one
of them, he WAS sure they would see the impropriety
of sacrificing any principle of the Constitution for the
sake of a temporary advantage. In this he was con.
firmed-by the result of whatever experience he him.
self had acquired by the history, not only of his own
but of other countries, and by the opinions of many
of the wisest and most eminent men. He would not,
therefore, presume to violate a great constitutional
' principle fur any temporary benefit. His Honourable
Fr lend had said, that it was more manly to bring the
matter forward while the arrangements were pending
—but to this he had to reply, in-the words of an ono•
nymous writer (Junius), to a fnilitary character (Sir
W. Draper), who had replied to a letter of this wri-
ter, and pt.t his nark to the answer—" This Wu an
instance of spirit ; and if it had been in instance of
any thing but spirit, he should have been inclined to
follow the example." What was the utmost incon.
venience that could result from waiting for the mea-
sures of the new Administration? Some time would
be lost-.-a week, or a fortnight. But were they to
depart from a great constitutional principle for such
an advantage as this ? He was old enough to recta.
lect, thatahiny years ago the question, whether the
House should have a previous negative on the ap-
pointment of the Ministers of the Crown, bad
Idecided. It had then been determined, that 4a
not ; and that it was only when either or both of the •
Houses of Parliament had had experience of tileflt
the measures of Ministers, that, if they could not toed'
fide in the Administration, it became their ditty us
address the Throne and express their judgment. The
amendment of the Honourable Baronet (Berea)
near him, was objectionable, on the same graistilimps
It was unconstitutional. This was not the part the?
had to act—they were not to call to the bar at dap
House the persons chosen, or whom they insage4
would oe chosen by the Prince, and interrogate thus
asto the opinions which theyhald. end the se
they iitendod to give. 211eCtown bed kit se de ite

_

ar

-
•

#

t:,-51•94.% •:
„ .
./ "6 •
• :
.
• t

A
...

part—the House would then judge of the measures of
the Administration, and proceed accordingly. These
were the old fashioned principles of. the Consttu.
tion, under which this country had long flourished ;
and tl,ey were principles which, as long aslie had
the honour of a seat in tlpit house, he would never
abandon. Byt the Hon. Baronet had said, that a
great man, acting upon such principles, had brought
the country into its present difficulties: He had no
Wish to conceal the (Lingers to whith the country was
exposed, but the Hon. Baronet must remember, that
the peat man, to whom he alluded had the confidence
of the nation. If he were at a sea-port town, and saw
6.
a. three masted, vessel come in after a hard fought
;battle, torn and shattered, with a great proportion
''of her men wounded, and many dying, would it be
lairia:him to Charge the man who commanded the
ship with these evils,. instead of giving him the praise
due tp him, for the valour and skill with which he
bad conducted himself in a most difficult and trying
• sit4tion ?. Yet such was the actuation of the Hon.
_ baranet against his departed Friend. With regard
to the quEstion of Reform, he had always been fa-
vourable to its bitt he could not conceive how it was,
.possible for any one to imagine, that a Parliamentary
Reform could materially diminish the difficulties of
the country. Still he was friendly to it, for clearing
away some excrescences of the Constitution, arid con-
' ciliating the well intentioned of all parties. Perhaps
it might be said, that thisirotion did not go to pre.
scribe to the Prince whom he should choose, bat to

recommend the formation of a strong Administra-
tion but it was certainly fair to combine the motion
with the speech by which it was introduced. It had
been observed, that sufficient exertion had not been
made to form an efficient .Administration. How did
they, as Members of Parliament, know this ? Gen-
' tlemen might have seen newspapers, and every one
might attach to their reports what credit he chose ;
but surely these could not be made the ground for
4ttch a proceeding as this. gven on the most trifling
occasion's Members thought it necessary to call for
papers as a foundation for their motions ; and surely
this rule ought not to be dispensed with in a case of
this importance. He should therefore vote for pro.
ceeding to the
,Orders of the Day. For his own part
he 'was perfectly ready to support any administration,
(Loud cries of hear, and a faug4)—of whose measures he
approved ; and it was a great evil in our present cir-
cumstances, that Gentlemen did not cast off their per-
sonal predilections—(Hear, bear,)—and combine to.
nether like the crew of a ship to fight her to the last.
On both sides there were men who really loved their
country ; and he held him to be its best friend, who
acted upon the principle which he had stated.
• bir.FRANC IS BURDETT, in explanation, said,
that in alluding to Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox, he merely
had in view to shew,, that under the present sys:em
no good could be dcne, whatever might be,the abif
lity, of the Minister.

The Hon. Mr. WARD said, that if he thought
the Motion in-any way subversive of a Constitutional
principle, he would not support it, even if the tem-
porary advantage were to be Much greater ; but he
did not see that it was unconstitutional—he was sure
it was not without precedent, for that House to ad-
vise the Soveieign upon the formation of an Admini-
stration. He admitted that this was not to be resor-
ted to frequently, or on slight occasions, but no occa-
sion was ever More important than the present ; and
unless the principle was altOgether denied, as it was
_prudently denied by the Hun. Member who spoke
last, it mnst be allowed, that it ought to be acted
Vaon. No person doubted the dangers and difficul-
ties of the country, both as to its external relations
and its internal condition. In speaking of the pre.
sent Administration, it would be a most disagreeable
.task to-go from office to office, and- point out the in-
cornpeteacy of ind;viduals : and this task he sficuld
spare himself. This, indeed, was a matter of public
feeling, and Gentlemen could not but be, in some
aneaSure, aware of the sense of the public on, this
question. Even before the death of Mr. Perceval, it
was objected that the Administration was hardly
strong enough ; but it was then answered, that such
was the ability of Mr. Perceval, and such his charac-
ter, both in and put of the HOuse, that it supplied
the want of strength in other respects. They, there-
fore, who gave this reason for their confidence in the
Adrnin•stration, would pay an ill compliment to the
memory of Mr. Perceval, if they continued to place
the same confidence in persons so little calculated to
carry even their own principles into effect. With re-
spect to the alledged attempt to procure an addition
of strength to the Administration, be considered it in
much the s.ime light as the attempt made for the
same purpose in F. Isruary List only that it was even
less sincere, and that it would have been even more
~lisgracelul have acceded to it. What' was the
puttee of the props sition pat leao those who had been
called upon vikiin the present Administration 1. They
ha .beeta asked, for the, sake of mere place, to surrender'
their principles— to disgrace their character—to vio-
late their solemn pl:tiges recently given. If he were
to praise them for the rejection el such an oar, they
might consider it as a very poor comil ment. No
honest-man could have agreed to such a proposition.
As great as were the talents of the Noble Marquis,
(Welli•sley) and his Hon. Friend opposite (Canning)
rt they had acceptied office under such circumstances,
all the exertions of their highest abilities could never
tafterwards have placed tLem on a level, in point of
coadence, with men of moderate talents. Was
this ready to be treated like a sincere, a Dona file at,
tempt, to form a string Administration ? The peo-
ple of this country must be blind indeed, if they did
not see that the object was to leave matters precisely
as they were, (Hear, hear), to afford some pretence
for the continuation of this Adininistration ; and to
avoid 'by this colourable pretext, the.public odium
witch they knew they :nust encounter if they presu-
med to remain without an endeavour to strengthen
themselves- by more efficient aid. (Bear, hear.)—
But the House had been told that this was not the'
time for such a-motion ; that they ought to wait till
they had experience of the measures of the Ministers.
—This Was an old and specious argument.- He
maintained. however, that this was not a time to wait
till they coul4 nicely canvass this and that pv.icu-
lar measure. The time, the circumstances, demand-
ed an Administration which could do something by
authority,•—an Administiation with some name and
credit to give it strength in public opii.iun. Even
those who approved of the present system ought to
consider-, whether the present wen were capable of

supporting it ? But what must the usture of that sys-
tem be, to which there was such a general hostility.
that all the arts and blandishments ot the Court could
not procure any others to attempt to support it, eit-
c,:pt the present Ministers? If this Administration
rested on any principle, if it Was Any thing it was
Anti-Catholic—and this Anti-Catholic Ministry came
to this House supported by the Noble Lord opposite,
—(if loud try of litar,ltear.)—lt as for those who
were not very friendly to ,Catholic concessions to con-
sider whether they were likely to succeed in their ob.
ject by such instruments, and whether it would not
be better to trust to an Administration which could
talk in a firm tone to the Catholics—conceding to
them what, was consistent with the Constitution, and
resisting all unreasonable demands. it appeared to
him, that the House was called upon to decide whe-
ther they should ever advise the Crown on such an
occasion:—whether they should not surrender one ot
their most important privileges, and agree to support
an Administration formed upon a principle cf mere
favourition.

Lord WALPOLE contended, that the proposition
for strengtheninpjhe Administration was made with
real sincerity. e present motion was certainly
unconstitutional, as the House had no right to inter-
fere by any prevloua advice in the formation of a
Ministry.
Mr. RYDER thought that the proposition, if
adopted, would be a violation of one of the most im-
portant and fundamental prerogatives of the Crown,
The Honourable Mover had presumed, that neither
those who had been at present nominated, or those
whom it might be in contemplation to nominate, could
by any possibility form an efficient Administration,
and therefore wished Parliament to interfere before
the Administration *as actually formed. He thought
the Honourable Gentleman ought to have brought
forward some precedent before he proposed such an
extravagant measure. In that case, which had been
alluded to, Mr. Fox had not brought forward any
motion to interfere with the exercise of the Royal
Prerogarree in the appointment of an Administra-
tion • but his proposition was merely for addressing
his Majesty not to dissolve the Parliament previous
to the return of the new writs on the appointment of
Ministers. Even then he apologized for bringing for-
ward such a motion in the absence of Mr. Pitt : and
yet in those times, which were times of great heat and
irritation, no such motion as the present had been
made. The circumstances of the case were then dif-
ferent; for an Administration had been dismissed,
who had been uniformly supported by great majorities
in Parliament, and a new Administration had been
formed of men who had been in the habit of opposing
those measures which had been sanctioned by Parlia-
ment. To those Men it had also been objected, that
they had come into power by improper and uncon-
stitutional influence. Could any such vbjection be
made to those who were now Minister, ? They were
the very men who had been conducting fir many
1 years, the Government of the country, in a manner
that P rliament sanctioned by its approbation, and
1 which he believed, had also the approbation of the
country. As to himself, he had to state, that from
i
1 circumstances with which it was unnecessary to trou-
-1 bls the House; he-did not form a part of the new
Administration. He must state, however, in answer
to an Honourable Gentleman, (Mr. Ward),-that the
efforts made to incr:ase the strength of the Govern-
ment, and the proposals to that effect, were made
with the utmost sincerity. He was convinced that
the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning)
coedd not say, that he believed that there was any in-
sincerity in the offer. As to the particular difficulty
which prevented thlt Right Honourable Gentleman
from accepting the offer, those who made it certainly
did not consider that it would have been an insupera-
ble obstacle. As to the opinions which he had re-
cently delivered on the Catholic question, and the no-
tice of a motion he had given upon that subject—they
supposed that he might have thought it unnecessary
for him to make such a motion if I.e became a Mem-
ber of the Government, as in that case he would-have
opportunities of calling the attention of his colleagues
to the subject in the Cabinet, whenever he judged
proper. If that point of difference had then been his
only objection to join the Administration, it was na-
tural to suppose that it might have•thus been 'remov-
ed. He understood him, however, recently to have
titken up the opinion that those Catholic claims ought
to be brought forward as Government measures by
the Administration of the day. He must say that it
was much to be regretted, that the Government had
not been able to acquire that accession of strength of
which they were so desirous; but. still the proposition
had been made with the utmost sincerity on the part I
of Government. He had in his possession, an ixpla.
nation of the sentiments of the Administration on this i
particular point, which had been laid before the Rigbt 1
Honourable Gentleman, and which he did not than
r it necessary for him now to state. He thought, how-
ever, that the Administration now forming, ought
not to be presumed altogether inefficient to carry on
the business of the country, when it was recollected
that there was at the head of our Councils, a Noble
Lord (the Earl of Liverpool), whom Mr. Pitt, about
ten years ago, declared to be, in his opinion, equal
to any individual of the opposition in talent, inte-
grity, and character, with the exception only of Mr.
Fox. When such a man was placed at the head of
our councils, he saw no ground for deepairing.of the
efficiency of the GovernMent.
Mr. CANNING said, that it had been his with and
his intention not to have troubled the House upon the
present question. It was not because he thought that
there was any thing in the general 4 proposition
brought before the House, which included him ; or,
which- would make it improper for him to speak toi
'
the general question, whether the House should or
should not address the Prince Regent, for the pur-
pose of obtaining an efficient Administration for the
country in times of such difficulty as the present : the
reason which, made him feel unwilling to speak on
the present occasion, was, the fear that whatever
might be said by him, would possibly be conceived
by. some Gentlemen as proceeding from personal
feeling,—from the result of an application which had :
recently heed' made to him. He had, therefore,
been very unwilling to deliver his sentiments on i
the present occasion : but when he had been so pat-1
titularly called upon by his Right Hon. Friend (Mr.
It yder) he thought be might appear wanting in re-
spect both to him and to the 'House, if he did not an-
swer the call which had been so pointedly made upon
him. Hi: Right lion. Friend, however, must give

hiss leave to sari, that Ws call appeared to him to be
somewhat unfairly made upon him. All that bad
passed upon the occasion alluded to, had, by com.
mon consent, been reduced to writing, in order td
avoid the possibility of mistake upon the subject. If,
then. he was placed at the bar ai his country to an-
swor for his conduct upon
that occasion, he would
ritfer to the written paper as the record upon which
his defence was rested. Those who would not allow
him to rest his defence on this written paper, might
take the technical advantage, the unworthy advan-
tage (as it appeared to him) of that objection which
had been suggested by the Right Hen, Member for
Yorkshire, (Mr. Wilberforce,) thetsuch a paper was
not regularly before Parliament, and therefore could
not be properly referred to. He had to complain of
his Right Hon, Friend for travelling out of the re-
cord,...-for not confining his observations to what ap-
peared on the face of that paper, but calling upon
him to answer other points which were not in it. It
had made it necessary for him to do, what was most
alien to his feelings • and in defending his own con-
duct, he should find it impossible to avoid contrast-
ing it with that of others upon this point. His Right
Him. Friend, in speaking of the sincerity' f tits pro-
posal, had asked whether if he had accepted of the
proposal and joined the Administration, he should
not still have conceived himself at liberty to speak or
vote upon that point as he judged proper? Undoubt-
edly he should have considered himself at liberty so
to do. If he was contented generally to fight against
those principlei which he had decidedly av,ved, un-
der the banners of those who were decidedly hostile
to them, he certainly might have made his solitary
speech, or given his solitary vote whenever the guts-
von was brought forward in Parliament (Hear, hear.)
He would not say but that there were. Honourable
Men who might have thought that this was suffi-
cient ; but his mind was not of that construction. He
conceived, that it was his duty to give whatever of
influence or authority he possessed to the attainment
of measures which he considered of the utmost im.
pertance. lie hyped that the House would bear in
mind that those words were wrung from Mm, and that
it would be most painful for him, when obliged to jus.
tify his own conduct, to appear as if he were throw.
ling imputations en others. Ho allowed ;Int it was
the exclusive prerogative of the Crown to grpo:itt its
Ministers; and that before Parliament int meted with
respect to the exercise of this prerogative, the case
must bi strong and urgent. Gentlemen should,low-
ever, recollect that the House of Commons Stood in
A double capacity.'- It was not only a council of coat
trout to the exercise of the prerogative, but it was al-
ways a c,itscil of advice to the Sovereign on all cases
of great puhlic importance: if it, on some occasions ;
exercised its right of advice, it might make it the less
' necessary to exercise its power of contioul. (Hear;
hear.) He could not.bnt think that his Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. R.) had made some whimsical distinction
in his argument upon the precedent ef 1784; and that
this single instancehad been selected by him with pecu-
liar infelicity. He said,that in 1784, Parliament did not
venture to take such an-audaci, us step ii s to address
his Majesty respecting the toimation of the new Ad-
ministration. What was it. they did ? • Why, accor-
ding to his Right Hon. Friend, they.kept within the
bounds of the Constitution ; they did not address
about the nett/ Administration, but they addresied
his Majesty to preserve their own existence, and not
to dssolve thtste—(4 /augh.). Now it the case bad
been changed, and th. y 'had hapiened to have an-
dressed ab out the Administration that was forming,
and it was now proposed to address against a disso-
lution, the very same arguments might be used, only
changing the terms. It could then ease been said,
that no Parliament had ventured to go the length; pt
addressing the Sovereign against the exercise of his
prerogative in the dissolution of Parliament, t ut that
they only addressed him about the formation of an
Administration. The proposition which was now
submitted to the Flousewas, therefore, only deemed
extravagant, because in 1764, it was upon the exer-
cise of enother, and fully as important a prerogat've,
that the House thought proper to address iii ,Ma-
jesty. He niust declare, that he was as much taken
by surprise in the present motion as the House was.
He certainly never did expect such a proposition from
the Hon. Gentleman uho brought it forward, and if
he had supposed that there was one man in the House
(of his independent situation) more than another like-
ty to join with the Noble Lord (Lord Castleteagh)
against himself, in any- question that sboulo be
brought on in that House, he did suppose that the
Hon. Mover would be that man. He was however
as much surprised at the course which had been pur-
sued to get rid of this motion, by moving that the
other ordets of the day should be read. So that it
appeared that this unheard-of motion—this direct at.
tack upon the best prerogatives of the. Crown—this
inversion of the constitutional line of proceeding,
which threatened to wrest the sceptre from the Sove-
reign, was to be met by his laithtul Admini *ration,
not uith a decided and indignant negative, but by
reading the other orders of the day—(a laugh;) This
unheard-of motion was opposed by a Coves nment
strong enough, as it conceived, to carry on the Admi-
nistration of the country in the most difficult times,
by passing to the other orders of the day. The Hon.
Gentleman had said that he required of the Cabinet
to concede their principles to him upon the Catholic
question. He dui no such thi. He had merely
inquired what were the present opinions entertained
in the Cabine: upon that imports It subject.? I'o that
question be was answered by the N. ble Lord (Lord
Liverpool) with great candour and manliness, that
his own opinion remained the same ; and that he was
not 'mare of any change in•the opieions of a, y of his
colleagues. He must again remind the I-jouse that
it will very unwillingly that be spoke of those mat-
ters ; but when called upon, as he had been, he
could not avoid it. When be had heard the opi.
nion of the head of the Government so distinctly pro•
neunced, u.as it possible for him to doubt of the prac-
tical erect of that opinion entertained ley the head of
' the Government ? His Right Honourable Friend
had said, that if he were to come isito office, the mo-
tion of which he had given notice would be unneces-
sary, as he would then have an opportunity of call-
ing the attention of his colleagues .to the su,bject.—
He certainly in such case might move it in the Ca-
bidet, and be beaten, as he might now move it in
this House and be beaten. He should however pre-
fer moving it in this House, in order to thew the.
Public that he had done every *thing. that it was in
his power to do to forward those principles Which be 4

-."

had publiey professed. He nem bad minutiae*
the opinion that concession, unqualified and pee do.
tate, was the best course which could he taken et
the subject of the Catholic claims. His Right H.
Friend (Mr. Rydct) had however myth mistepre.
stoned hint when he spoke of' opinions very recently
taken up. -The' opinion: Asa he then professed wets
the same which he had professed ev.r 'Uwe his Be
Honourable Friend had known him. What he
formerly said on the subject was, that when it on
considered that the King was decidedly hostile I.
those from cc* xientions scruples which woe
immoveable, he thought it better, for the peace
the Sovereign and of the country, and better fee do
1 cause the Catholics theniselves, that the *As
should not be urged it a time when it was
ble that they could be successful. He had, as da
account only, wished the question formerly lobe hie
back, and had interposed his feeble shield bettieeet
and the peace of his Sovereign; It was, however,
little too much to expect, that whatever he meld
have yielded to the conscience of his Sovereign, be
should yield also to the convenience of Ka;
1 (Hear, Ittar.) He could not bring himself to fit
thought of planting with thorns the pillow of
1 aged and venerable Sovereign ; and he yawed
rpeace as much as he valued the peace of mat.
He, however, never had treated the scruple; at ,
I Right Honourable Geotlemau (Mr. Percevid) eith
the same respect. When he, therefore, saw the ka
I Lord (Liverpool) whose opinions on this salienee,
proached the nearest to those of the Right ft
able Gentlemap, now placed at the head tithe
cils of the country, how was it possible fur bia set
to fear that there Would be no contending in the Cs.
binet on this question, against 'his predrimisaat ids.
ence ? He bad no other objection, either from ii.
valry or any other motive, to refuse acting %irk st
under the Noble Lord ; but Be felt that from his S.
tuation he must have a most decided iufluence
decision of the question. His Honourable Friend hit
asked him whether he had seen a statement of the
Members of the Cabinet on this particular point, ad
the limitations cf the ;sense in which they stream
hostile to the. Catholic claims f Being so called spoe,
he must say, that he had seen that paper; Was
the Society of Jesuits did not now exist, they mad
be exonerated froert the charge of having drain
up--(a laugh)—but this statement explained nothil
to him but that all the Members of tLe Cabinet Ind*
differed in their opinions on the subject— (41404
It he had not given this answer, it might hare Ilea
supposed by the House that all lights of theology
and sound reasoning were to be found in this paper,
It appeared to him, however, of so different a clap
"meter, —that he really did not know how to give a
serious answer to the communication. TLe wawa
he had given was by a nouce; in wiiich be merits:ad
“ that he had looked at the at.‘tement, aid, as to as
he could make it out, it appeared io him to be of o
controversial nature gown' lanh.) He redly
did not know what other an.wer to give. No two
Members of the Cabinet sow the question in theist*
light ; audit he were to have added one to this km,
siccus of dissent; there would, as Isfr. &eke once s
pressedit, be a most beaut.ful variety of opinions in
the Cabinet. if he were then to exercise LAS rule,
and ask to which shade of opinion, :h: blue, the red,
or the yellow, (a laugh) the fair infliienr• and arahte
ray of the Government in that Hi 'use ss as to begiven,
he cotilu nut avoid concluding that it would be to
the opioion of him to v. horn the Crowe had contidet
the direction of the Goverimenti He therefore cos.
cei-ved, that lie could not wail tiont.ur inn a Cabinet
where he could have only a barren vote, upon a sub-
ject: which he conceived of greatest importance.
He, however, perfectly coincided in what had been
said of the spirit in which the proposal had Wee
made ; and lie was ready to pronounce any paR.
spit on the manner in which it was made, which
VAS well suited to the long and uninterrupted Wing.
ship and aft?' ctioo which he felt for that Noble hod.
H 1 knew that his Noble Friend might most cnosciet
tiously differ in opinion with him upon this subject.
The difference, however, now, was not about instate*
conceding the Catholic claims, which was a the; ho
never proposed), but whether those claims ought sot
to be taken into the most serious consideration of the
Government, with the view of conceding all thatcoali
he conceded with safety to the Constitution. An Hos
nourable Gentleman had said, that they should kart
it to time to thew e hither the persons selected twit
new Government would or would not be able to lore
an efficient Administration. l'he HiniourableGer
tleman, however, could not be-surprised if a pens*
called upon as he had been to be an actor in the Neste
firstshould consider, whether or not he could be elln
viceable to his country, by jo.ntng such Malinke*
tion He must be allowed aoo to consider whether
by so doing he would not injure his reputation, via'
was dearer to himself than it could be to others. Wilk
the race of pigmy men, amo g whom we now live, d
any one was str pped of his reputation and his cheese.
ter, he would be quite unable to render ally usesul •
service to his country, by accepting office. He Pie
no son of disposition in his Majesty's Gowning*
ever to support the claims of the Celtolics. (Lank.
Castlereagh expressed dissent.) It be could suppose,.
I by this expression of dissent, that the shades of sldhg;
ence upon this question were at all amalgamated, and
that there wag any chance of Government !mingle.
vourable to the Catholic claims, he would hail dna.
nouncement of such a disposition With the Ottawa
pleasure.
Lord-CASTLERtAGH hoped that the Haus
would clearly under stand that he had no wish to Oeny
the undoubted right of Parliament to control thessal-.
t; se of the prerogative, or to give i:s advice to the Si°"
vererg. n on all questions of public importance, ed
_.
iane lshnet,
.d, fur urgency. Wiu lout den) ing the omnipo,ence of Pit
weighed, thoughthe
ecuming to such a resolution, before dre7
that the gruunds should be new
moved the other orders of the day, it appeared taloa
that the course he had taken was not only coos 141,1•
agreed i 0 it. As to the Honourable Geothatnan Ina
tional but usual. The Mesibers of the AdOsli• •
lion had most sincerely exerted themselves to • .
Iddiional strength to the' Government ; bitit
Cantlernen who were applied to Considered dtaas
lot juitified in lending their talents to the suppett!
the Administration of the country, on the princiP!! •
which had hightt to been sanctioned by Parliament, PI. •
blame attached to them. He knew that his ituffs.
tiighneis the Prince Megan had been most nnigift.
, ever since the restrictions were .taken to "I"
many man of public talents as could be got

.e

1

mob le that systeln of Administration which he
conceived-° best for the countey, and which had hitherto
beelssationed by Parliament. There were certainly
rat difficulties in bringing ptiblic men to combine
poi co-uPerate; but he wood seriously put it to Gen.
&men, what they thought the Mettihersof
Admini-
stration mkt to have done at the
by a calamitous event, was deprived of the services of
Perceval ? Ought they immediately to have
d their posts, and let the hand of an assassin
;ballynfeoverturn the whole Administration, but that
ot only
policy which Parliament for many year s had
sYsteenlitothPebest for the public service? If they had
dill°llg so, or given to the Prince. Regent the pusillani-
moonuesadovficher:f changing, on that account, the whole
policy, they would deserve to be con-
tYa,stemre the basest and most contemptible of mortals.
T.--he-Ndoble Lord hoped he would not be found to tres-
,s on the patience of the House, while he said a
of himself, and of his own personal con.
particular occasion—.a practice which he
de Oct wordsw
o n this
was very seldom in the habit of indulging. The
House were at perfect liberty to deny him every por-
tion of their political protection and confidence, if he
did not declare, that throughout the whole of the
"ne-
e iation hewas most anxious to rescue the Prince
-Regent front any isituation of difficulty or embarrass.
mot that might grow out of him personally, or the j
lace in Administration which he held. He had came
Pinto the Government, not to indulge the feelings of
ambition, but to render it all that service which he
was capal4le of affording on the secession of one of iti
principal Members. At the same time he was
anxious to relieve the Administration of his Roya.l.
highness from any difficulties which might be sup- '
posed to arise from any personal pretensions of
his own, and to throw no obstacle in the way of
their receiving the aid of more available services
than his own. He, therefore, did feel it his duty
to tender his resignation to the Prince Regent,
resolving at the same time not to shrink from this ar.
duous duty of standing by the Sovereign, if under all
the circumstances his Royal Highness did not find.
himself enabled to form a preferable arrangement.
He did wish his Royal Highness to be enabled to ex-
tend and strengthen the means of conducting his Ad-
mieistratien, particularly in the House of Commons.
lithe offer of resignation was not accepted, this at
least he could say, that it was tendered with an anxi-
ous wish that it might be received. As to what passed
id the course of the recent negotiations, he would say
little, particularly as he was no party whatever to
them. The docurnepts, however, had appeared in a
morning paper of this day, though he was really at a
loss to understand how they had so speedily got there;
sad therefore there was no occasion for any great de-
limey in noticing their contents. 'Yesterday morning
was the first time he had ever seen these documents ;
And lie was free to admit, that if the Noble L. rd and
'the Right Hon. Gentleman thought they could not
mat that cordiality in the Cabinet which could be ef-
fective for the public service, then no duty remained
for them but that ofdeclining the offerswhich were held
out. From the whole of the papers he was led to cons'
dude, that the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last,
would not form a part of any administration thatsvould
sot take the Catholic question into consideration.—
But really he thought it due to the Howe to knew,
from that Right Hon. Gentleman, what his specula-
tiou were on that subject, and what were his prac-
tical views as to the mode of its accomplishment ?a-
Ile could understand the manly policy of some Gen-
tlemen on the other side of the House, who declared •
that the claim of the Catholics was a claim of right;
they might with justice insist on the formation of a
Ministry who were favourable to unconditional con-
cession: but when the Right Hon. Gentleman really
could not state what he meant by the word conside-
ration, was he to turn his back on all the other great:
principles of policy, in which he concurred with the
Members of the existirg Administration ? The
Right Hon. Gentleman u ould do great justice to his
own character, if he came forwai d and stated can-
didly his views on the subject of the Catholic claims;
and if these views met the consent of the Catholic
body, and could be acted upon without repugnance
on the part of the Protestant community, he ( Lord
C,astlspagh) declared, that he was ready to sup-,
-Port Indeed he would assert, that he had ever
been a most sincere friend to did measure of conces-
sions to the Catholics ; but he never had made that
question a political engine, or an instrument either
for suppereag or overturning any Administration.—
'Whenever any Gentlefnan brought forward a measure
on that sublect, such as was understood _to be enter-
tained, af tie time of the Union, by Mr. Pitt, Lord
Grenville, and others, he was prepared to support
that measure ; but he never would use it as a stalk-
ing-horse to disturb or embarrass the operations of
the Government at a period when objects of so much
greater magnitude occupied the. attention of the
country. He would still assert, as he had always
done, that no particular pledge was given to the Ca-
tholics at the period of the Union. The Catholics
certainly lent their support to that measure which he
considered as of vital importance, from an under-
standing that something would be done for them ;
but he would again repeat, that no pledges whatever
scare given by Government as to the particular mode
in which that object was to be accomplished. (Hcar,
Aran, horn Sir J. Newport.)—There was one point,
however, on which at the period of the Union he was
authorised to give an opinion to the Catholic body; I
and that was to make such provision for theCatholie t
Clergy as would remove them from the state of de- ,
gradation and poverty in which they were placed.—
Before he joined Lord Sidmouth's Administration,
Ist received an assurance that this measure should be
r:f.connended to his Majesty ; btrt it never was car-
sjed into efeet, because in the mean time the Catho-
lic Clergy had changed their opinion of it, under the
idea that it might prove injurious to their own lute-
resits. The Catholics themselves ought to come for-
ward, and declare what precise measures this, want-
ed. He saw no occasion for layitrg upon Government
the task of considering their claims, but rather that
the whole attention of Administration should be bent
to the great difficulties in which the country was
?laced, and above all to the conducting of the war:.
in the Peninsula on the-largest possible scale, plitli•
cularly when the affairs of Europe were now at a
most important and interesting crisis. He had heard
sornethin g of the necessity of carrying on the war in
the Peninsula on a more extensive scale ; but he
should be glad to knew how that could be done
Thelcale of warfare wail the largest, the most ex-
-