Star.
London, England, 1802-03-24 00:00:00

CIVIL LIST ACCOUNTS.

The CLIANCELLOR 07 THE EXCIIIVER, in conkquence of
the intintatton of kveral Members, that the Interval for tak-
ing into coulideration the Report of the Committee on the
Civil Lilt Accounts, was too limited, poßponed his Motion
for ref • the Accounts to a Committee of Supply from
to Friday y nest. The Right Hon. Gentleman expreired
a with to papule the Motion Rill further, if it thould interfere
with the one of which his Honourable and Learned Friend
Mr. Manners Butt, had gival notice for Monday next, rela-
tive to the Duchy of Contra
Mr. CORRY laid, he rofe purfumn to his notice,
to move for certain papers refpeeting the milcel
laneous fervices of Ireland. The Houfe was aware,
that there was a general order for the proctuetion
of eflimates for the fervice of the year. If he un-
derflood that order correctly, it applied to Ireland
as well as to England. If, however, there was
any difference of opinion upon the fubjeet he hop.
ed he thould be fet right, becaufe it was his with, in
every refpeet, to conform to the rules of the Houfe.
He therefore begged to alk, whether that order
was to be underßood as applying to Ireland ? (The
general order for the produttion of eftimates for
the fervice of the year.)
The SPEAKER Paid, it would be better for the
Right Hon. Gentleman to move to clifchargo that
order, and to move a freih one.

Mr. CORRY them moved, that the eftimates for
the mircellaneous fervices of Ireland for the year
1802, be laid before the Houfe.—Ordered.

Mr. CORRY then brought up the eßimates of the
mifcellaneous fervices of that part of the United
Kingdom called Ireland, for the year 1802. They
were read at the Table, and confined of Pratique,
Dublin Port charges, for apprehending public of-
fenders, and for criminal profecutions, for printing
proclamations, Stc. for printing and Ilationary for
public offices, for Treafury incidents, for building
Law 'Courts, and for cloathing the Battle Axe
Guards.—Ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. CORRY faid, he begged leave to trefpafs up.
on the Houfe with a few obfervations by way of ex-
planation with regard to Come petitions which he
wifbed to prefent to the Houfe. Some of them re-
lated to Cervices for which public Parliamentary
grants had ufually been made in the Parliament of
Ireland, and they were therefore deemed public
Cervices. But according to the forms of this Houfe
many of them would come under the defci iption
of private, not of public fervices. It would there-
fore be nect.Tary that they fhould be preceded
by petitions from the parties praying for relief.—
He fhould therefore, with the permillion of the
Houfe, prefent thefe Petitions, which were in ge-
neral from corporate bodies in Ireland, praying
for the aid of Parliament. If it fhould be the plea-
lure of the Houfe to receive thefe Petitions, he
would afterwards move for the eftimates of the
expence ; and by proceeding in this manner, the
Houk would be in polfeffion of every necelfary in-
formation upon the fubjeEt. He Ihould, therefore,
now propofe to prefent thefe Petitions. He was
aware that as they were applications for public
money, it would be neceffary that they fhould have
the approbation of the Crown ; but It was necefl'ary
he Ihould fay a word with refpelt to the form in
which thefe Petitions were drawn up. The Peti-
tioners, who were not converfant with the forms
of the Houfe, had Rated in the Petition, the amount
of the fums requifite for thofe Cervices : this, he
was aware, was not parliamentary, becaufe it was
not conformable to the rules of the Houfe, that the
turn Ihould be Rated in the Petition. But he truDed,
under all the circumftances, that the Houfe would
not think it neceffary to rejett thefe Petitions ;
coming, as they did, from perfons who were not
converfant with the rules of the Houfe, and who alto
refided at fuch a diftance as to render it difficult to
procure freth Petitions in time. There was another
point of which he wifhed to apprize the Houfe,
which was, that the Petitioners, defiring to give
'he Houfe every information in their power, had
annexed eftimates to their Petition. He was aware
that this was not regular, but as, in fome inftances,
the ellimates were diftind from the Petition, he
would take away the caimate, and merely pref.=

the Petition. He could not take away eerta;r.
words of reference to thofe eitimates in the Peti-
tions ; but he trufied, that fuch words as " accord-
ing to the e(limates annexed," and which he could
not take out of the Petitions, would not prove fatal
to them. The objea of the &ft Petition he had t.)
prelim was, for the maintenance of the Protellant
Charter Schools in Ireland. They had fubGllcd
for above Italia century in Ireland, and had been
produaivc of great advantages, and it was an in.
ftitution for which public provifion had always been
made in Ireland.

Mr. CORRY then brought up the Petition.
The CHANCELLOR of the Etc' KITE& Paid, he
had no difficulty in Rating the recommendation of
the Crown to the objea of this Petition ; but he
wiffied to obferve, that it was always held to be ;La
objeftion to a Petition, if it was too minute and
particular. With regard to the Petitions ffittin,.
the fpecific fum which would be wanting, he de.
fired to be underftood, that when he approved of
the general purports of the Petitions, and gave the
recommendation of the Crown, yet he by no means
pledged himfelf as to the particular font. His
Right Hon. Friend had Rated, that there were
Effirnates attached to tome of the Petitions ; but
he mull be aware that the Houfe could not pro.
teed upon thofe Eftimates; indeed, his Right Hon.
Friend had Rated the circumftance apologetically,
and had exprelfed his intention of moving forfrclh
Effimates. The prefent Petition, however, was
not liable to this objeetion, for it did not fpecify
any fum, and, therefore, he had no objeaicn to
Rate the recommendation of the Crown to it.

. Mr. Rosso!! faid there were no Petitions pie.
Tented laft year.
Mr. Coßxr laid, that laft SeMon, the Houfe, in
their kindnefs to Ireland, in which it had never
been deficient, and knowing that the people of
that country were inexperienced in the forms of
the Houle, had difpenfed with thole forms which
required that Petitions fhould be prefented.
Mr. ALEXANDER laid, that in Ireland tilde were
confidered as public Services, and did not require
Petitions. Mr. ROBSON explained.
The Petition was then ordered to lie on the Table.

Mr. CORRY brought up a Petition from the
Houfe of Induftry, in Dublin ; he laid, this was
an Inilitution which produced the greateft benefits
to that country, and was perhaps the ben mana,r,ed
Inflitution of the kind in any country. There
being no Poor Laws in Ireland, the metropolis was
the place to which the unprovided Poor retorted;
arid indeed many perfons •who had no fettlement
in this country foliad their way there. The
jet of the Inftitution was to relieve th unforlunate,
to encourage indußry, and to prevent idlenels
and drunkennefs. The indußry which the perfons
relieved were compelled to exert, contributed not
in a very (mall degree to defray the expence of
the Inftitution.

The SPEAKER faid, theft were certainly in the
nature of private petitions, the time for prefentiap;
which had elapfed. It was for the Houfe to ci..-
termine whether they would difpenfe with the
order, or whether they would make a fpecial order
upon the occafion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHECIpER faid, he
was afraid that thefe petitions were of a nature
that could not'be prefcnted regularly. He remem-
bered slimly petitions of this nature, one for in•
fiance from the African Company, and for a pub-
lic purpofe, which the Houfe would not receive
after the time for receiving private petitions had
elapfed, until a petition was prefented for leave to
prefent it. Whether the Houfe would make any
diftindion in this cafe, it was not for him to fay.
Perhaps his Right Hon. Friend would delay pre-
fenting any more of thefe petitions till to.morrow,
and in the mean time the Houfe would have an
opportunity of confidering the fubje&.
Mr. CORRY laid, he certainly was not aware of
the informality, but it was owing to the circum-
Rance of the fervices of Ireland not being re.gu.
lirly claifified, fo that it was impotlible to know
which came under the head of Private, and whlc4
of Public Service, becaufe many of thefe fervices
which were public in Ireland, were conlidered as
private here. He iliculd now, with the permitilo2
of the Houfe, withdraw the petition, and alto fcr
the prefent forbear to prefent the others. It would
alt.() he necclrary to withdraw the other petition
which he had prefented,but as in that cafe it would
Appear on the Journals as being withdrawn,
ihould be glad if it could be paired fib filo4,
Mead of being withdrawn.
The SPEAKER laid, the petition had been pre-
rented and ordered to lie on the table: he thougit
the better way would he, to let it lie on the Table
till to-morrow, then move to difcharge di,: order;
and then it would be as if no fuch petition had beca
prefented.
FOHR AND A HALF PER CENT. DUTIES.

Mr. Tie RN E Y moved for an Account of the Greis
Amount of the Four and a half per cent. Duties
from the sth of April, 1785, to the sth of April,
1802. He alto moved for an Account of all Sum:
charged upon the Four and a half per cent. Da-
ties that remained unfatisfied, on the sth of
18et, together with the films applicable to the dif
charge thereof. His objea, he raid, was, that the
Accounts might be completely before the Houle
from the period when they were lall moved for.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excumy Ex laid, he
Ihould not °Ned to the Motion, becaufe a fimilar
one had been made by an Hon. Gentleman (one
of the Members for Stafford) in the year 1786, am:
acceded to by the Houfe. Had it not been for
that precedent, he fhould, with the opinion he en.
tertained that the Four and a half per cent. Duty
was exclufively at the difpofal of his MAjelly, have
thought it incumbent on him to have oppoted the
Motion. He hoped the Houfe would allow him to
Rate what was the real nature of that fund. lri
the year 1663, an Aft of Parliament paffed in con-
fequcnce of the Pale of the Bland of Barba('
the Earl of Carlifle, its then Proprietor
inhabitants at that time paid to the Earl
liilesplbs. of cotton a year, the right of/
which was conveyed to his Majelly. Hit
having purchafed the ifland, exonerated
bitants from the payment of that burthen,
coufideration for fo doing, claimed of thet
of four and a Ilelf per cent. ou the produce

)adoes by
:or. The
•1 of Car-
'receiving
is Majefty
the lulu-
), and as a
ens a duty
I" of dm
- -

t

itland. The fame thing doh with regard to
the iflands of Nevis, Antigua, Montlerrat, and St.
Chriflopher's. In the ad 'dative to Barbadoes,
there was a recital of the expences and charges as
to that illand, but there was no mention made of
the appropriation of any Turn to dilaarge them ;
and it was well known that the whole of the Civil
Ellablifhment of the ifland had been paid out of
other funds It was alfo well known, that in every
grant of monzy by Parliament to the Crown for
the Ilipport of its dignity, the four and a half per
cent. duties had been fpccially exempted in the fe.
veral Ails, as being the exclufive property of the
Crown. He mentioned this merely as a ground
of obje9ion to fimilar motions, in cafe they fhould
hereafter be perfifted in. Had it not been for the
precedent in quellion, be fhould have Rated his
reafons more at large, why fuch a motion ought
not to bz adopted by the Houk. Upon the pre.
fent occafion he fhould not make any objeaion.
Mr. Rosso% Paid, the fund had not been applied
according to its appropriation.
The CNANCILLOI of the Exciisaysz Paid, he
would jufi Rate to the Houfe that his Majeßy bad
been gracioufly pleafed to appropriate 17 a,oool.
out of this fund in aid of the Civil Lilt.

The Paper moved for was then ordered, as was
alio another paper moved for by Mr. Titimnr,
being an account of all turns charged on the
per cent. duty remaining otaftanding on the sth of
April iBor, with the (urns applicable to the dif-
charge thereof.