Star.
London, England, 1824-05-04 00:00:00

IRISH TITHES COMPOSITION BILL.

Mr. GOULBURN moved the second reading of the
Irish Tithes Composition Bill. Tue debate might be
taken in a future stage.
Mr. GRATTAN denied that the present was any
improvement on the former Bill. It could only appear
an improvement in the opinion of the Clergy. The Bill
was most injurious to the landed interest of Ireland.
He should move, on the second reading, that the Bill
be read a second time that day six mouths.
Mr. D. BROWNE would reserve his observations on
the Bill to a future stage.
Sir J. NEWPORT would suggest to the Right Hon.
Gentleman to postpone the discussion to a future night.
The Bill was anything but an Amendment of the
former Act.
Lord OKMANTOWN thought the new system had
for its foundation the worst parts of the old. The new
Survey of Ireland might be extremely useful in settling
a Composition for Tithes.
Mr. GOULBURN expressed his readiness to give
every explanation which his responsibility as the mover
of this Bill might be supposed to require from him :
but the proper way to come at any such explanation
would be to reject the amendment, and let the Bill go
forward to a Committee, where it might undergo im-
provement. He did not deny that several of the clauses
might admit of modification—that which requiued the
production of papers and titles was particularly fit for
such deliberation. As to the question of oaths, and the
penalty of £lO, he would not absolutely insist upon that
very modification of the clause : but if any others were
to be adopted, it must be suggested by the House when
resolved into the Committee. This might be an insuffi-
cient remedy, as it was asseited by those who held the
same language towards his Bill of last Session. With '
regard to the last named Bill, he had the satisfaction to
know that it had generally operated in a satisfactory
manner ; and, whatever might be said of it, he had at
least the satisfaction of knowing, that the country looked
up to it as the only sure measure of relief—thanks to
the generous support and intelligence with which it had
been received. He justified what he had dune by the
triumphant success which had followed. As to that
particular clause which had been denominated " the
trap clause," though it did by no means deserve so
odious an epithet, it was only inserted to prevent the
successor from suffering through any fi and or contri-
vance in compositions made with the preceding incum-
bent ; and he defied Honourable Gentlemen to produce
an instance, in ninety parishes, where any inconvenience
had been incurred therefrom to the payers. He con-
gratulated himself on having so entirely overcome the
difficulties which opposed him in the nature and pro-
gress of the Bill; and exhorted the House to reject
the amendment.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected to this Bill, because
it was an aggravation, instead of an amendment of the
evils in that of last Session. He did not mean to object
generally to the principle of amendment ; but he was
decidedly adverse to a Bill which, professing to be an
emendation of a former one, was anything but what it
professed to be. The only way in which, as it appeared
to him, it was capable of receiving any amendment
would be, as a first step, to omit every word it at pre-
sent contained, except the preamble, and to substitute in
the place of the clauses it now presented, others that
should be really effectual to meet the evil complained

Of. The Bill trent to shut out the landed proprietors of
Ireland from any inlluence, comparatively speaking, in
the vestries which sere to regulate the proportion of
tithes that their lands were to pay to incumbents ; so
that a large class of the peasantry would be dealt with
in any manner the incumbents of the livings in which
their parishes were situate might think proper. Occu-
piers of lands upon leases only would be, in many re-
spects, in a far better situation, as to the right of voting
and interfering at such vestries, than the landowner.
He (Sir John Newport) protested against it altogether,
as a most unjust and unwise measure.
Mr. Secretary PEEL thought most of the arguments
of the two last Hon. Members would have been with

greater propriety offered at another stage of the Bill,
namely, the third reading, or in the Committee. His
Hon. niend (Mr. Rice), if he would allow him to call
him so, had said, that in many instances, the parties to
compositions under the Bill of last Session had been
entrapped into arrangements, or had acted inadver-
tently. Now the number of these instances, it must be
allowed, would be in a great measure determined by the
number of appeals to the Lord Lieutenant in council.—
There were 90 pstances in which such agreements or
compositions had taken place and been confirmed ; and
only five in which appeals had been asserted to the Lord
Lieutenant in council; so that five per cent. was the
sum total of dissatisfaction in Ireland with theocera-

turn, as far as it had gone, of the Bill of last Session.
The Right Hon. Gentleman then expressed his convic-
tion that the subject of this Bill required the most se-
rious consideration; but conceiving that every alteration
would be most properly suggested in the Committee—
that the Bill was in principle most beneficial ; and that
it would be an unexampled thing to deny the second
reading of a Bill which went to amend an Act that it
was on all hands agreed required amendment, he should
support the original motion.
After a few words in explanation from Lord Oxm A N-
TOWN and Mr. GRATTAN, the amendment of the latter
Gentleman was withdrawn; the Bill was read a second
time, and committed for Friday next.