Star.
London, England, 1823-03-25 00:00:00

BEER DUTIES BILL.

Upon the motion of the CHAwcoLtou of the.r
tautten, Mr. BROGEWN brought up the Report of,
the Beer Duties

Mr. 1-10LME SUMNER. said, that evasion might
arise out of the Bill, as it gave the power to sell beer''
-which might be sold in one house, and drank by per-
sons assembled for that purpoSe in the next.
The CHANCELLOR of the t reffi3QUER said,
be believed there was a clause to prevent that.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, that a precaution might
be taken to guard against the-case mentioned by the
Monourable Member.
hir. Alderman WOOD contended, that the mea-
sure Was a tax upon the people.
Kir. Alderman TI-10M-PSON approved of the
as he thought it would enable the poorer classes
toiget malt liquor cheaper than they could at present.
Mr. BENNET said this would be very small beer
Weed; and the way in which it was to be brewed
would hold out strong inducements to use drugs in'
tie brewing. The better way would be to take off
the dirty en beer altogether. lie wished also that
leer should be made a shop article altogether, to pre-
N:.it the labourer from going to public-houses.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did
not bring this forward as a measure perfectly free
from fault; but he thought they were bound to give
it a fair trial. •
Mr. GRATTAN wished that this measure should
beextendetl to Ireland.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
time %ras tte becr duty in Ireland.
Sir J. BOUGH:EY supported the measure.
Mr. F. LLINIS red tilt present monopoly in
tl!e manufacture of Wet..
'Mr. F. BUXTON said, the principle of this Mesa.-
slre was to injure the large brewers, whb had great
clpitals enthisked in trade, by inamosiog a higher salt
of duties on them than 011 those who should brew obis
beet-z-The Rerkrt was agreed to, emi a Bill twk-
dered tot,* ttromght

meautArT SEATIEN APPRENTIbta.
tie Report of the Ships Apprentices Bill *A Bheel! 10.

Mr. RICARDO denied that this Bill would et all
4ereatt the number of seamen ; but if k be thuald
s.ly it WAS unfair to make persons take apprentices,
when so many able seamen were out of employ Meat.
Itie Proposed an amendment, " that all the words
repodrshould be left out of the clause," iris
lic.et' being tb remove that .compulsory coneitioW for
la .ng 4 certain 'number of sipprenticei from the Bill.
.54.11U:3M5:30N said, the Honourable Grentlernau

•
wag not to be told of the general poliefof this coun-
try. in relation to maritime strength and maritime
affairs, and with what vigilance It sought for. the
means of encouraging and propagating skill in sea-
manship. In applying the general rule of the irn-
policy of interference, it was always necessary to dis-
tinguish those cases from the reit in which the mari-
time strength and force of the country were involved.
What were all our navigation laws and registry. acts
but so many modifications of this policy, in which
interference must be exercised in order to preserve it?
Ilk could be shewn, indeed, that the Bill would have
no other effect than that of impeding the growth of
commercial wealth, the grounds would be unsound.
But it was a condition common to other ships, as
well as those in the West India trade, to be compel-
led to take a certain number of apprentices. There
were two classes of apprentices engaged. The first
was a compulsory class of parish apprentices, who
were put upon the Masters of ships by the parish offi-
cers, and the Masters were obliged to take them.—
(i•lr. Hume dissented).—llid the Hon. -Gentleman
deny that? He could assure him he was entirely
mistaken as to the fact. It was no more optional
'with the Master of a vessel to refuse or take parish
,apprentices, than with tradesmen and householders.
But there was anther class of apprentices, who went
to sea voluntarily, to accomplish themselves in the
profession of seamanship. As the law at present
stood, there was no security to them from being
pressed into the naval service, after the age of 18 ;—.
the Bill protected them to the age of 21, and this had
been considered as highly desirable by the ship-
owners and merchants.

Mr. SYKES wished the Bill not to be hurried
through the House. He had hoped that all new re-
straints upon commerce were at an end.
Sir G. COCKBURN understood that the shipping
interest was very well pleased with this Bill.
Mr. MARRYAT said, he had been a ship owner
for .1.0 years, and had taken great pains to bring up
his apprentices, and to educate them,properly ; and
he had always made it a rule never to make any one
an officer in his ships, unless he had served his time
with him. The Hon. Gentleman (Ricardo) wasl
against thii measure as being one of compulsion ; but;
they would never break a• horse, or send a boy to
school, on the same principle—because that was com-
pulsion. He had heard that Bonaparte had said of
political' economists, that if he had a throne of ada-
mant they would grind it to powder ; and so would
the political economists of that House wind naval
power to powder.
Mr.BERNAL spoke in favour of the Bill.
Mr. GLADSTONE believed this Bill had received•
the general approbation of the country.
Sir I. COFFIN thought this Bill gave thebest pro-
tection to the merchant-vessels, by affording, three
years more protection to the seamen.

Mr. BRIGHT agreed in the excellence of thTißill.
Mr. HUME said, the object of the Bill seemed to
be to employ apprentices instead of able seamen; and
he hoped his Hon. Friend would divide the House.
The House divided—
For the Amendment -
Against it

- 6
- .8S

•
WA R EIIOUBING BILL.
On the motion of Mr. WALLACE, the 'Report of this
Bill was brought up, and the. House went into a Com-
mittee on.the recommittal of it.
Mr. R ATT.itLN obseried, that that pan of the
Bill which related to the Linen Trade would be ill
viewed in Ireland.

Mr. WALLACE said, that this was a Most im-
portant branch of trade, and one which he looked.
forward with anxiety to see fully brought under the'
consideration of the House. He thought those who
advocated the transit duty which had been placed on
Irish linen, were bound to •skew 'the propriety of
placing such a duty, in his opinion, contrary to the
general principles on which 'such things were deter-
mined in general.
Sir G. HILL thought it exceedingly onTair to the.,
linen trade Of Ireland, that in the Bill of last year)
they should be exempted, and this year 'vain
cluded, without any sort of notice to the persons in- i
terested in it.

WALLACE appreheUded, thatthere would be
ample time to collect alit:he:Members connected with
the part Of the kingdom t'onterned in this trade, be-
tween 'this and the "Ma of April, when he proposed
the tLiril reading -should take place.
Mr.Bt2tlNG. RIM thought this was a subject de-
manding tote treated with -reference to the tranquil-
lity of Ire/and.
Itlr.Secretary PM reminded the House that this
question was one which ought to be viewed in a dif-
ferent light from any other quettiOn its the Bill, arid
was to be determined upon particular met% of its
own ; and be begged leave to give notice, Halt
the discussion of the Bill, on the 21st April, he should,
endeavour to press this view on the House.
After a few words from Colonel BARRY and Mr.
Bzumer,
IVlr. WALLACE introduced a clause into the Bill
to provide against foreign watches being warehoused'
under the provisions of the Bill, with the fraudulent,
English mask upon them. He observed that the
watchmakers had told him that they did not fear the
competition of the French watches in the open mar-
ket; but this practice was detrimental to theft *ade
and reputation. He also proposed a chute to pit.'
vent any wine being bottled in the docks of this Coif--
.try in any bottles but those of the coanrry. The Right
llon. Gentleman also stated, that the 'Chancellor eff
the Exchequer had agreed to withdraw a ceitstik
tirawbacic dsity relativeto wine bottles, which would I
have tleelrect ottacilitating the wine 'commerce. 1
the fail AVICELtort or the EiCHEQISgRk•en-
Eralea the staterbeat of hit Bight Hon. laltiend. 11th
chases were then added to the Bill; and the Bill;
was ordered to be read athird time' ntheillst
nYot i* 'rich n'oet.ll: Theastat.
tolonel SARttlf rose to move for the ptetlettibn
or tert a* papers bog' iThpdriance, at,they dispett-
ea the discussion ith 14,a4 to tett pie& ifs tttati
Wet. ant the itr tiett theatit. Vire doctithentsi
Move ref ith the first inistance wee-e,44 oefieS
bt inibttratfott on which the tommitments of certain
persons to thb gaoler Neisigate, Dablih, tor a tempi,
raq to that4er the Lista Destetninti were !bunted." 1
Thebe transactions originated on the llth if Dilkein-
beriust: An the day aftset several persons wet* likidgisr
'beta* 'the Magistritesi Istrket them wede charged
with rick and the,' set‘t* timatiltted to the ofl
Newgate, where they remalhed • on this - Shiite
• until the. 28d. On that day warrants of detainer

tvete otakilltn eintrging 'them with an at-
! Ifibpt tri-1/111 avid inttrtlior the' Lord Lieutenant.—
' -(4oughter').--On the-mask dip; one Names Forbes,
.was taken_ op and committed for the same conspiracy.
When the Right Honourable Gentleman did not deem
it advisable to proceed on the capital charge against
those persons, bairwas entered into by them to a wry
considerable amount, and the Right Hon. Gentle-
man..gave 'notice, that he intended to proceed by ex
;drum information. He (Colonel Barry) had not
brought this matter forward sooner, because, until
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr; Plunkett) entered a
rinli prosetiui, it might have been asserted that some
.public inconvenience would result from the produc-
. non 'of the necessary information. It was natural to
suppose, that this attempt to fix a stigma upon a veil
considerable body of men, must excite a great degree
of abhorrence at being supposed capable of such atro-
city, as conspiring to murder the King's representa-
tive.' He tad no doubt, at the time the commitment
was advised, that it was believed that there was such
a conspiracy; but he believed that not a single man
in Ireland now retained that opinion. If theGorern-
ment of Ireland had been deceived in the transaction,
.and had now altered their opinion, lie could not con-
.ceive, but in bringing the subject before Parliament,
and giving them an opportunity of avowing it, he
was doing them a service.
Colonel TRENCH seconded the motion.
Mr. PLUNKETI' rose, and said, that as far as his
conduct was concerned, as far as his name and cha-,
racier, and responsibility, were connected with thel
transactions to which the Hon. Member alluded, he,
was most earnestly anxious that the most minute de-
tail of every part of his conduct should be laid be-
fore the House and the country--(Hear, Hear).—
Yet, strong as was his anxiety for such develope-
merit, he could not consent to sacrifice to his own.
personal gratification a principle which was founded
in public justice, and which was intimately connected
with the ordinary and judiCious course of legal pro-
ceedings in this country. The Hon. Gentleman who
had brought the motion forward had certainly done.
so with temper, and he should presume that a pure
abstract love of justice, connected with an important:
political question alone actuated him, although the;
Hon. Member Must'perceive that the motion of the.
Member for Armagh would place him on his trial on
thelsth April, and the motion of this evening would,
in a manner, place him .on his trial that night. It was,;
therefore, somewhat inconsistent in the Hon. Member,+
Whose notions of pure and perfect justice had received!
such a shock, with respect to a second trial of thel
rioters in Dublin, to have condemned him to undergoi
two trials, to which these two motions would subject!
him.—(Hear, hear). With respect to the committal,
on a charge to kill and murder the Lord. Lieutenant,
if the Hon. Mover had been acquainted with the
course of legal proceedings, lie would know it was,
one thing to commit a man on a charge, and another
to bring him to trial on that charge. 'lnformation, be-
tween the time of committal and the time of trial,'
may be obtained, so as to justify the alteration of a
slight. charge into a capital one, or Bice versa. He
would lay before the House the circumstances under.
whiCh the capital charge had been preferred. On the
14th.of December the Lord Lieutenant intimated-his
intention of visiting the Theatre. !An intimation had
been given to him of an intended manifestation of
displeasure, in conseiluence of his having caused
the discontinuance of dressing the statue of King
William the Third—a ceremonial that had been in-
dulged in for some time in Dublin, for the purpose of
insulting the Catholic population of the country.—
On entering the Theatre tumult arose. His Excel-
lency was received with Winn applause Tram the un-
bought and unpackedportion of the audience. How-
ever, another portion ranged in the tipper gallery cf
the house and other parts, continued a violent system
of hissing. Handbills were flung from the gallery,
.not only insulting to Lord Wellesley's person, but
also to the Catholic population, bearing the inscrip-
tion, No Popery," " No Popish Government," &c.
This annoyance continued without interruption until
after "GOD save the King" was played, and at that
part of the performance a rattle was thrown by Gra-
ham, which cut the cushion of the box next to the one
in which his Excellency sat; and a bottle was thrown
from the left-hand side of the gallery, which passed
over the pit of the Theatre, and after having hit the
drop-curtain midway between the centre of the cur-
tain and the Viceregal box, rolled upon the stage.--
Here the Learned Gentleman described the construc-
tion of the House, and sheaved, that although whilst
seated in his box a missile could not reach him, yet
when he stood up and advanced to the front of the
box, it might easily have done so; and it was at such
a time of the performance that the missiles were-
flung. When the.bottle had been mentioned by the
Hon. Mover, he thought he heard. a laugh—(Hear).
It seemed a jeu d'esprit—a merrinient to some Hon.
Members—(Chiers from the Opposiiion)--the mani-
festatioti of merriment had now been followed by
cheers on the repetition of mention of this bottle.
Gentlemen might act as they thought proper, but
they were egregiously mistaken if they supposed that
such interruption could embarrass him. " I would
recommend (said Mr. Plunkett, emphatically) to those .
Gentlemen who are so anxious for the manifestation
or feeling, to confine themselves within the decorum's
of the House, and to suppress the expression of their
sentiments until it has devolved upon them to do so
in the legitiinate and ordinary progress of debate. I
never interrupted a Gentleman myself, and ido not
. eiwel ask too much when I ask of others to reel-
precme that courtesy. In despite of such intemption,
Ude saY that no person can fairly contemplate the
fad of such an atrocious insult offered to the Re-
presentative of the King, and offered because he
had etecuted the King's commands and special
directions, wjtbout giving to that atrocity the
mast isttqualifted condemnation.—(Load' Cheering):
The crime the Lord Lieutenant bed committed iris
that of governing all•his.-Maicsty's
_subjects jit ,
land according' to the pritiiiples.olequal Aria ittpar-.
1
141 lawn —A.,Rertr,. Itear),:afer*, the Right lionbui-
aisle and &earnest Gen**. anfinfeied into a mai of
the conspirati, as proved 44:41411,tn• Dtiblith'ttd4
sktplaiged, with gre4t force and elovenie, parti-
;RAl. reasons and motives which-actated 'the Irish
Giovinuanettt ju. the eisticii!et.lhe-tiatikparktieti. He
CoacLeOeitbr Jblailelb;* %WA °ll;t°
ssrtie-
aoia the lsgality of thopr.. Indsasiictopted.^
I.o*Abririt atOtion ha kris tliegrouoill of the
• • -the iiteth:#--Usigist.do epl atargiconduct of
I toe iittaleaz irhhinlght tekie Ou trial, and'

•
• also on the ground of the impropriety of exposing
formation which had been given' to'66veritmetu
' der the protection of implied confidence.
Dr. LITSHINGTON strongly condemned aU
eret proceedings, as .ilangerotts to the liberty of
subject. Ile.mus support this motioh.for Papet
it was only to put hitnself in possession of usefu,
formation. He had no bias :as regarded the
llrish party question. He 7decide imj
tially ; but how mold he do this.. if be carpe to
discussion blindfolded and hOodwiukcid?. .roe 1
and Learned Member then proceededto corn rues
the circumstances of this pretended conspiracy,
stated by the Irish Attorney-Gener:ii, and content
that even on that statement the Ri:; t Hon. •Getr
man had not made out the slightest case of inter
murder, although there was proof that a tru
meanor of a serious nature had been committeclo.,
one which called for severe punishment. • •
Mr: PEEL considered the production of these
pers as not at all necessary to enable the How
understand the question Which was -to dome
April. The only thing 'necessary was the evidi
prOdueed at tile trial, and that was given in' Vie'
full report which had 'been patbllffied the'tri;
Then, if these Papers were not necessary to ei
the -House to 'form a judgment, would .it *be..,propei
to produce them at all? -He-contended it would ne'
inasmuch as theproduction of them might soh
the Magistrates who committed to a prosecut
and.for this-reason he would oppose the motion.
Mr. AtERCROMBIE wished to have the Pa;
produced. Ile was of opinion the House was b'
to-call for all the information in its power to
on this important question.
Sir .I:NEWPORT thought the Ifouse should
cautious how theY exercised the great inquisito
power which they were now Balled on to enfitc,
The Papers now asked for he considered were not
4cessary for the information of the House; but .
would elect third parties-if produced ; and, there-
fore, in calling for them, the House would be gt
'of great injustice. For these reasons he -thould
pose the motion.
Lord A. HAMILTON supported the motion.
Mr. S. RICE opposed the motion as unneceisary,
.Mr. GRATTAN said, he should support the -
tion. It was well known, that the -Lord Lieutena%
was 'of one opinion on the subject, and his Chief'
-eretary of another. The King's Attorney-General of
one opinion, and the Solicitor-General of another;
and the only wonder was, how a prisoner ever hap-
pened to be committed at all. Fur his part, he de-
sired to see everything fair and open, and therefore
he would support the motion.
Dr. PHILLIMORE thought no Parliamentary
ground had been laid for the production of these Pa-
pers, and therefore he a ould oppose the motion.
Mr. LAMBTON said,he should support the motion.
He thought a _prima facie case had been made out
against the Attorney-eenOral, and he had no hesita-
tion in declaring his opinion, that the Right lion. Gen-
damn had acted unconstitutionally.
Lord HOTHAM and Col. TRENCH supported
the motion.

Col. BAARY'replied, 'and denied that he was one
of those who wished to see Ireland governed by a
party. He wished there was not an Orangeman in
Ireland, nor a single United Irishtnan; but it was not
by law proceedings they would be put down; the
March of public opinion alone could put down these
parties. He was alto fully persuaded 'that Ireland
never would tie 'qnlet' 611 party was put an end to.—
The House then ,divided—.
For the Motion - - 32 •
Against it . - 44
Majority against ft
On the return of strangers to the Gallery, Colonel
BARRY was moving for the production of Copies
_ of
the Recognizance:. in which the Prisoners in Dublin
were bound to appear; together with other Papers re-
tri the same subject.
Mr. PLUNKETT said he had no objection to the
production of those Papers. They were the same
whiCh the Hon. Member far Armagh had signified
his intentiott to Move for.-:—The motion was agreed to.

NAVAL AND MILITARY iPENsIoNg.
The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER said
that at that late hour he did not think it necessary to
-trouble the House, with any observations, parlichlarly
as it was not unacquainted with the object of his mo-
tion, and as he would have another opportunity of
detailing it. He concluded by moving for leave to
bring iu 'a Bill to confirm an agreement between the
Trustees under 4a.ALct of Parliament of last -Session,
to appropriate the Half-pay and Pension List, and the
Bank of England.
Mr. GRENFELL said, That he would istifinte. the
bargain altogether—not from any blatne wtrich He
attached to the Bank, but from the conviction that a
tter arrangement could be made with the Commis-
sioners for.reducing the National Debt.
After a few words from Mr. Baitirtscr, leaft-e was
t%
given to bring in the Bill.
•
111SCELLANDOWL •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rave notice,
that he would on Wednesday next (to-morrow) move an Address
to his blajeity On the subjea of a Monument to be erected to
'the late'Earl.St: Vincent and j.ord •Duacan.
Mr. W. WI LLI 41VIS obtained kave SO bring in ' A nal 'to
regulate the right of voting at Biirciugh tkiSoris, 'arising -:rorn
real property, and to prevent ocrasionality."
•Mr. CRIPPS obtained kave to bring in " A Bill to increase
the power of Magistratis incases of ApprentiaehiP."
Sir BOUG HEY stated it to be his Intention to move for
leave to bring in a Bill ofa sindlar deieription, but di ring front
it in some paints,

Mr. M.A. TAYLOR inquired, whether the Bill of the lioa.
Gentleman (Mr. Cripps) related only to parish apprerfices, or
included 'those bousiti Sf contract and indenture ?
•Mr. ICRI.iPP,S said, It would apply to all apprentices. .
Mr. SYKES obtained leave to bring in a Hill to ante-;d •he
Act of 7 George 41, relative to Quorum Ntsgivrates is
Cities and Towles Corporate.


MR. TX-SHERIFF PARKINS.
• Sfr. HUME roue to plosenfa Pt:titian from the P.x-Sher'.ff,
ah.Thirkias, stating that be attended pursuant to notice, wi:h
Roe of his securities, to enter into the necessary recognizanc,,s
aphis "Otidoh againSilhelateeleettbis for A rundellt that one
of his securifies, Air. Bworeason,:attended,,bvtAlseouter., Mr.
Mures,,ne4k-cted to vend at the appoined hour. The petitu:3
concluded by praying an extension of the tfnfle to aiotir him to
• Sod ailother security. • . .
After a few observations from Sir T. Bassett•and
WINN' the Petition was laid on the table. •• • •
The other Orders of Dwi Were then disposed of. • '
Arts; the; w.e,xer finished, the Chief Clerk infar:rted. the
Airsixast, that lowish Wilfred PaP%5 neiletted tti e
oirlihe races sity iescigniziscaitbpresseutehis Petition agui•.,t.
the return or Itir. Kehl, foi the Borough of AtundeL
Sruthea, in consequence, directed the Chief Clerk to rescin4:o:::
t,r*r Wo43llPOtra Ff4f r:cAlarldinil.i• It was rerdude
cordittgly_louse then ic.jOUrileb, a natf-p._

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