Star.
London, England, 1805-03-30 00:00:00

NAVAL DOCUMINTS.

Lord Vifcount MELVILLE prefented a variety
of Naval documents and accounts, which were thofe
ordered by the Huufe, on his Lordlhip's motions on
a former evening. They were laid upon the Table,
and ordered to be printed.
The Earl of DARNLEY brought forward his pro.
ailed motions on this fubjed ; thefe he defcribed to
the Houfe in a fpeech of force length. The motions
were for the produltion of a great variety of Naval
Accounts and Documents, many of which were found.
ed on thofe moved for by a Noble Vilconnt, and pro•
duced as above (fated; which he thought, in feveral
inftances, by no means went far enough for the full
illuntation of the fubjed, with a view, coupled with
the detached accounts, moved for by his Lortfiltip,
to ellablifit and fuhilantiatc, as he contended, the !TA:!-
ing pofitions advanced by him when he fief intro-
duced the fobjcet. Of the impolicy, extravagance,
and injurious tendency of having recourfe to the mer-
chants in preference to the Royal Dock yards; theca-
/lability of the King's yards, under a proper fylien; of
management, of fully anfweting the demands of the
Royal Navy ; and building therein a great number of
Mips annually ; and the injurious conlequences which
were likely to enl'ue from the departure of the pre-
fent Board of Admiralty from the wife and falutary
fyftem laid down by their predeceifors in office. The
accounts moved for by his Lordfhip necetrarily em-
braced a variety of Naval details, and included nearly
the whole economy of the Royal Dock yards. With
a reference to a controlled view of the condua ofboth
I3oards of Admiralty, many of the motions were for
accounts from the Bth of March, sBo2, to the r;th
of May, 'So}, in which interval the late Board of
Admiralty officiated. He difdained all perfonal mo•
tives in thus coming forward. His object was purely
the public welfare and fafety, by endeavouting to
'brow light upon a queftion of great national import-
ance, and which conid hereafter be taken up and ar-
gued by perfons evidently more competent than him•
lf. He concluded by formally propoting the fira
motion in his firing, which was, "for an Account
of all Ships fitted out and refitted for the Service of
the Royal Navy, from the Bth of March, I Soo, to the
ssth of May, Igo} "—On the quellion being put--
Lord Vifcaunc MELVILLE Paid, if the Noble
Lord cook' prove fatisfaeorily that the Navy of this
Country could be kept up in time of Wac, with-
out having recourfe to merchants yards, it would be
one of thc !limit:ll days in his (Lord Melville's) life.
Prom the ea:licit period of this being a Naval Court •
try to the prefent time, it had been found abfolutely
mecefrary to build in merchants yards, forthe purpofe
of keeping up the Navy ; and if by any new and
happy arrangement, or mode of employment of the
men in the King's Yards, it could be found that thofe
Yards were amply faffuicnt during all periods, not

only to repair the wear and tear of our Navy,- bat
alto, as the Noble Lord hid Rated, to build ten
new (hips every year, the man who made fuch a
difcovery, would be richly entitled to be confidered
a benefactor to his country. The Papers which he
moved for on a former evening, and the greaten
part of which he had nqw laid on the Table, went
direftly to. the point on which the Noble Lord had
laid fo mulch Reefs, namely, the building King's
(hips in Merchant Yards, as they proved that this
fyltem had been reforted to by every Board of Ad-
miralty, from the earrest period down to the hour
at which he was addreffing their Lordfhips ; a fyftem
which they had all along been coinpelled to retort to
in times of difficulty and of war, in order to keep up
the Navy. if, thet efore, he was culpable on this head,
he was culpable in common with all h 4 predeceffors.
With refped to what the Noble Lord had laid rela-
tive to a new method of claffing the men it the Dock
yards,by which it was alerted much more work might
be done ; he wiffied to obferve, that the fubjed had
been for fome time under confidenttion. It was a
fubjed, however, on which there was great difference ,
of opinion among( thofe who were the bell informed
with refpeft to Naval matters ; it was contended by.
fume, in oppotition . to the idea of claffing the able
workmen, thole who were lefs able, and thofe who
were fill leis able, into diflind gangs, that the able
muff, in that cafe, frequently be idle until the reft had
finifhed their talks. it was Rated alio, that, by dal
ling workmen of different degrees of tirength and ac-
tivity, together in one gang, that as there were parts
of a (hip which required in the workmanfhip a greater
or lets exertion of bodily ftrength,that each man might
be let upon that which was molt [tilted to him, and
thus all might finiffi their talk together. The idea of
arranging the men in a different manner to that which
had been contantly ufed was fuggefted about fifteen
months fence by the mailer builder of Plymouth Dock
Yard. It had been for fume time under confidera-
tion—ht had devoted to it a confidrable degree of at-
tention—he had not yet made up his mind upon the
fubjed, or at lea, whatever might be his opinion,
he would not prefume to (late it to their Lordfhips,
without Rill further inveiligation ; but the fad was,
that the pratical refult of the examination, which was
now going on, with refped to the comparative bene.
fits to be derived from the two modes of employing
the men in the Deck Yards, would be forthcoming
before the Papers moved for by the Noble Lord
could poffilily be laid upon the table. Under there
circumstances, therefore, all he athed was, that the
Noble Lord would delay making his motions until
the inveftigation he had alluded to was concluded,
and its pradical refult afcertained. If that re-
(tilt coincided w.th the opinion of the Noble Lords,
there would, of midi, be no neceffity for the mo-
tions ; if not, it would (till be open for the Noble
Lnrd again to bring forward the fubjed. He would
only fay, that after having come to a determination,
upon the tubjed, founded upon accurate and careful
examination, he would all upon that determination,
let it operate againft the prejudices of whom it might.
With Tanta to fome of the Noble Lord's motions,
he would find them, upon examining the Papers laid
on the table, to be included in thofc papers. There
was another feu ions nbjellion which he had to the mo-
tions of the Noble L- rd, and which arofe out of the
interruption which the preparation of them would
give to the bisfinefs of the offices from whence they
mull come, and the time which would be occupied
in getting them ready. His Lordthip here read a
letter from the Secretary of the Navy Board of whom
enquiry had been made for that purpofe, Rating, that
the Papers intended to be moved for by Lord Darn-
ley, could not be got ready in lefs than three months.
Under all thefe circumstances, he expreffed his deter-
mination to oppofe the motions.
The Duke of CLARENCE would not long tref-
pals on the Houle, but he thought it incumbent on
him to fay a few words in fupport of a motion of
which he was proud to be the father. He was fur-
prifed that the Secretary of the Navy Board Ihould
write the letter which the Noble Lord Rated to have
received, or that three months Ihould be required
for the produftion of papers, which were neceflary
for the dituflion of one of the molt important ques-
tions that was ever fubmitted to that Houfe. He
could not refrain, however, even in that Rage of the
Wines, from declaring, that if any deviation Ihould
take place from the fyltem laid down by Lord St.
N'incent, it was both fallacious and erroneous. In
the merchant-yards, the pradice had long prevailed
of flvaling the Shipwrights, and it was the with of
that great charader, that the pradice, which had
b-:en found fo advantageous, Ihould be introduced
and e fablilhed in the King's yards.
Lord DARNLEY congratulated their Lordfhips
and the country, that the lyftem introduced by the
late Board of Admiralty was under confideration,
for its merits were filch, that he entertained a confi-
dent hope that it would be adopted. He was happy
to hear fuch a declaration fall from the Noble Lord
at the head of the Naval Department, for it was ge-
nerally uneerflood that he, and thofe united with
him in Adrninitration, came in with the determina-
tion to refit all the falutary regulations of the late
Board of Admiralty.
The firtt motion was then pat and negatived. It
was moved, that the reit of the feries Ihould be read
(port, which being done accordingly, they were all
rejeded.—Adjourned till Monday.

HOME OF COMMONS.
Mr. ABERCROMBIE brought up a BiH to enlarge the Powers
of the Corporation of the Officers o 6 Excife in Scotland ; and a
Bill to raife a fern of money tor enlarging the Harbour of Leith;
which were read a Bra time.

The Edinburgh Police Bill was read a third time and paffed.
The American Treaty Bill paffed through a Committee, and the
Report was ordered to be received on Monday.
The French and Spanlib Trade Licence Bill was read a fccond
time, and ordered to be read a third time on Monday.
,Mr. STURGES BOURNE brought up the Report of the Fo-
reign Ships Bill, and :he Neutral Ships Trade Bill, which wcre
ordered to be read a third time on Monday.
Mr. DORIF.N MAGENS moved for an Account of all Dollars
Blued by the Bank of England, to the lateft period that the fame
eau be made op.

Mr. ALEXANDER brought op the Report of the Committee
on the Spanißt Wines MI, which was (uttered to be read a third
time on Monday.

Mr. BROOKE raid, be mould take a future opportunity tourer
fume übjedtton, againft the lull.
.... ... . _ _

The Ways and Means and Supply were put off to Monday.
The Id& Spirits Permit Bill was read a brit, and ordered to be
read a feeend time.

Mr. FOSTER brought up the frith Promitfory Notts Bill, which
being read a Brit time,
Mr. Lee gave notice of a Chyle in Committee to enable Coun-
try Bankers In Ireland to iffne Prosniffory Note* of ti. anti AL the
WIN as &lig Country 8e11141411 is Bnglao4.

The Bill was ordered to be read a fccond time on Midday, the
ath of April next.

. A Merage from the Lords acquainted the H00f..., that their
Lordfhips had agreed to the Legacy Duty Bill.
The Ira Excite Duty Bill was ordered to be read a third dine
on Monday neat.
The Bill for afcertaining the Rights of Common in Ireland, was
brought in, ordered to be printed, and read a fecund time on the
titof May mat.
.fo

,
Lord Cornwallis's Governor Generallblp Bill was brought in,
rod a Brit dime, and ordered to be read a fecond time.

131.110 F MAN.
Mr. CREEVEY rare, agreeable to the nail% he gave yeltertlaY,
for the purpofe of moving for the produeliolt of the proceedings of
the Privy Council, in confequence of the application of the Doke
of Athol, for a compenfatiun for the relinquithment of his feudal
rights in the Me of Man, in 176 e.
Mr. ROSE gated, chat he was perfectly coma In the opinion
he gave yetterday, that no tech order of the Privy Cowicil as that
moved for by an Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Creevey) ycfterday, ex-
ifted. The prefent motion was likely to give the necelfary infor-
mation. There was no intention in his Majeity's Minilters to
withhold any information that could conduce to the fatisfaCtion of I
the Houle, of which no better roof could be given than the readi-
Ws they had &Ewa In producing the variety of Papers moved for
by the Houfc.--The motion was now agreed to.
Mr. CREEVEY übferved, that the names of the Privy Council ,
were omitted in the Paper he had moved for relative to the pro-
ceedings upon the nuke of Athol's Claim in the Ifle of Man.
Mr. ROsE. laid, that the million should be corrected.
REDUCTION OF THE IRISH MILITIA.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQJJER
brought forward his promifed motion for reducing
the Militia of Ireland, by a draught from it.of two-
fifths of its number. This meafure was very much
of the complexion of that before the Houk for re-
ducing the Engliffi and Scots Militia ; only that it
difered in thole peculiarities which, driftly to (peak,
belonged to the local fituation of Ireland, and, in
many refpeCts, its dinina, though fubordinate, local
regulations. It was true, that Ireland Rood in need
of-all the fecurity that could be given to its pofition
by an adequate force, yet it would doubtlefs occur to
Gentlemen, that his Maicily's Miniders had not
overlooked the exigenc:es f,f that part of the United
Kingdom, as it was intended to replace the two•fifths
to be taken from the hint Militia as fpeedily as prac-
ticable; as, in &el, orders had been fent to Ireland
for that purpofe, he did not apprehend that any op
pofition would be given to the meafure, from a notion
that its completion would injure the•fecurity of Ire-
land. Betides, he was very much of opinion, that the
mealure wculd tend to remove Tome of the local im-
pedients that at prefent obliruet the tilling up of the
vacancies in the Irdh Militia ; for when the number
the Bill thould mile would be drafted into the line,
the recruiting for the line wooll be materially fuf-
pended. The men fhall enlift into the regular forces,
lubjeft to the fame regulations as thole from the Mi-
litia of Great Britain : of courfe, he fhould include in
the Irifh Bill the amendment in the Engli(b for
granting a power to his Majefly to align to the Ar•
tillery and Royal Marines, what proportion of the
men he tbould think fit. The Irifb Militia con% of
about t z,OOO, or rather 12,000 is the number at
which it would Rand by AEt of Parliament, if com-
plete, and he expeeted an accellion of from 4000 to
5000 men to the Regular Forces from that Militia.
Having thus prefaced his motion, he concluded by
moving for leave to bring in a bill for allowing a
certain proportion of the Militia of Ireland to cilia
into his Majetly's Regular Forces, into battalions of
the Artillery, and divifions cf. the Royal Marines.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought it impolitic to
reduce the hid: Militia, Ireland being, perhaps, the
molt vulnerable part of the Empire. He had never
been, and never expeeted to be, a Militia Officer, dill
he did believe, that the Gentlemen of Ireland would
be difgulled to find themfelves called on to become
Recruiting Officers of the Line. The Irifh Gentle-
men would be degraded by the Bill.
Lord DE BLAQIHERE approved the
Many people thought, that the Irith Militia would he
b-tter employed any where than in their own country.
He did not like to hear the Gentlemen of Ireland
talked of as crimps, and recruiting ferjcants.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT rote to older. He had
never mace ufe of the word crimp; what he Paid re-
lated to Officers.

The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Baronet, that
what he was now Rating was in explanation, and not
on a point of order. He could not rife in explana-
tion, until the Noble Lord concluded his fpeech.
Lord DE BLAQIJIERE returning, obferved, that
his Honourable Friend and himfelf would have many
opportunities to talk over thefe things (a laugt). The
words of the Honourable Baronet amounted, in their
effeet, to thefe he had ufed. He would be the tali in
the world to impute to any man fentiments that he
did not entertain, or put in his mouth words that he
had not uttered. He denied that the Bill could have
the effed to degrade the Irtlh Gentlemen. th,.thought
it a float fubliantial meafure.

Mr. BASTARD was of opinion, that if the men
were to have the option to go into the Marines, they
would prefer that fervice ; in confequence of which
the acquifition to the Line would be trivial.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
Paid, the Bill, like that for Great Britain, only con-
ferred on his Majetty a power to q "im, if he fhould
think fit, a certain proportion of the men into the
artillery and marines; but gave the men no option
whatever.

General TARLETON expreffed his admiration
of the Irilh Militia, and from his obfervations, when
a Runt while in a command in Ireland, he could al-
lure the Houfe, that the Irifh were a people who
very quickly and dexteroufly acquired the ufe of arms.
A converfation now took place between Mr. CAL
CRAFT, Sir GEORCR HILL, Earl TBDIPLI, and Mr.
ALAXANDIA, in the progrefs of which it was afferted
and denied, that that (pecks of force in Ireland,
called a Militia, is no Militia. The Houfe difpofed
of this converfation by agreeing to the motion for
leave to bring in the Bill.

BRITISH MILITIA REDUCTION BILL.

The Houfe entered on the reconfideration of the
Report of the above Bill.

the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
brought up feveral claufes of local regulation and de-
tail, which were agreed to.
Mr. BANKS propofed a claufe for refcinding from
the Bal, that for the intsoduaioa of the ballot ittcer-
lain cafes.

A converfation took place between Mefris. BAN ag,
WILBERFORCE, PITT, and CANNING, and Sirs R.
BUTTON and J. PULTM NCY, when the motion for
bringing up the clauf: was negatived without a di-
vifiun.—The Bill was now ordered to be read a third
time on Monday next. The Bill, with the amend-
ments, was ordered w be priated..Adjourned.