Star.
London, England, 1822-05-16 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY 'PROCEEDINGS.
••••••••lIIMMNI
• HOUSE OF LORDS, MAX IS. •
Their Lordships met at ten o'dsek, to bier Appeals.
Tema assn Otstaa. Appellints; Lem% Rtaintodeill•
This vans an appeal from the Court of Session,
Antlaion-Gintelat. and Mr.. Molnar were beard for the
appliance; gr. Witsh tant. fat the respondent.—Futher hear.
11141CIVAsseist was given by Commission to the Costner-
venlig Mak Delia MU, the Bank ti Ireland UM, the Irish
Comsendal Credit, the Beebe Licenses, Scotch Mak, Scotch
Creation. Flax and Cam, Innkers' Sobsisteneer Soden So.'
entities, Summary Proceedings. sod several Mute Illds.'
The Commissioners were the. Lust CHASIMLOO, the Earl of
ilmartasseur, and 'fiord Costiraseman.
The Earl of STRANIOOI2 preeented a Padden from Owners
'slid Occupiers of Land in Suffolk, praying fee remedial isith.,
ones under Agricultural Distress.-1U Petition was read est
laid an the table:
Mr. Isere, from the Customs, presented an Amount noise
periods at which the ports were opened he the Ili-
of foreign corn,'since the passing tithe Mfm of Ohl
Ring, with
Album kinds. the quantity imported, and didespelehlitilite
Several Private Billi were bream& up from the Ommens by
Mr. 11. Mayne and ethers.. •
' Kati STANHOPE presented a Petition from Owners and:
Oempiers of Land in the County of Duvets on the subject of
Agrkukural Distress. ?wends° from Kent, and mhos Bucha,l
ex the some subjecte--They were severally laid en the table.
Lord SUFFIELD presented a Petition from the Handfed
of Humbleyard, in the County of Norfolk, stubs Agrkeltletti
Distress, and praying relief. The Petitioners ateshiseedit dolt
duty to call the attendes of the Legblature to particular
of taxation, and mobil by recommending Rehouses-be
Petition wan read, and bid en the table.
WILCH JUDICATURI. •
The Marquis of BUTS, after a few observations repenter
the present state of judicanne in Wales, presented a Petition
signed by the High Sheriff. and Grand Jury of the County of
Glamorgan, deeply lamenting the present system of Welch judi-
cature, and Ting the subject,may be taken under the consi.
&ration of , with a view to its abolition.
The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed with the Noble Lord
who had taken up der subject in a manner so beeensietilhakat
Brat consideration was du to the system of judicature hi w
and whereat say partiaderproposition came before Pelham
to usimiles the local judkaturn. of both countries, it mild
did treA attendee-
Let REDESDALEmxptissed an epistle that great hues-
ealemse woold aziatia the mum of small debts in use any
materhi aberatienawswe made in the We which-have so ion
been acted upon in Waits. Since the reign of Henry VEIL
may of the laws had remained in force, and however• am-
pilots might be snails, they came from the-hater orders of
the people.
Lord .CAWDOR supported the Petition, ands:pressed some
regret that no effort bad been made by his Majesty's Ministers
to assimilate the judicatures of Wales and Englsod..—The Peti-
tion was laid on the table.
Lord CAWDOR moved that a Message be sent to the House
of Commons, requesting them to send to that House Cepies of
the Minutes of the Committees appointed to inquire into the
Welch Judicature Acts.—Ordered.

REGISTRY OF DEEDS IN IRRLAND.
The Earl of BLESINTON moved the Order of the Day for
reconsidering the Report of the Bill for registering Irish Deeds.
Lard REDESDA LE opposed the Bill, as one for which no
necessity existed, which originated in an ignorance of the law on
the subject, and which would produce great Inconvenience.
Lord HOLLAND thought the Bill ought to be taken into
considerador.
The LORD CHANCELLOR stated many objections to the
gill, which be thought should be suffered to originate in the
other House of Parliament. He thought that the further con-
sideration of it should be postponed tin Monday.
The Bill was, after some remarks from Lord Rsattpus,
committed; and the further consideration was put off to Moo-

day next.
The Bills on the table were read in their stages; and at Seven
o'Clock the House adjourned to Friday.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The Snow took the Chair at a quarter before four. Upon
the Deputy Usher of the Black Rod appearing at the door to
summon the House to the House of Lords, to bear the Royal
Assent given by Commission to certain Bills, the Smolt,. im-
mediately left the House, and returned at a quarter past four,
and informed the House of the names of the various Bills to
which the Royal Assent had been given (for which see Lords).
On the motion of Mr. Couarastiv, a new Writ was ordered
for the election of a Burgesi for the Borough of Wash, in the
room of Mr. Russell, deceased.
Mr. JERVOISE presented a Petition from the Tanners of
Southampton, praying for a repeal of the Leather Tax.—Laid
is the table.
Sir ROBERT SHAW presented a Petition from the Calico
Printers of Dublin, praying that the projected repeal.of the
45th cap. Ist Geo. 4th, relative to the protecting duties on
their trade, mitt not take place.
Mr. FRAN LAND LEWIS begged the House to keep
their minds free from any impressions of the nature intended to
be produced by the Yetltiett, till such time as the subject came
fully before them. The question was one of a innetimportant
nature to the interests of Ireland, and be assured the House that
there was much curious ind important matter connected with it
to come out. • .
Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON•said, the whole gondol' of.the
policy or impoScy of protecting duties for the benefit of a nation
was involved in the consideration of the Petition. He tbougla •
these Petitioners ought to bear in mind that this county d`
become the first commercial nation hi the world under taystemz
of meteeft duties. . . . . . .
WALLACE assured the Ilea.: ffentleman who bad itiat
spoken, that the duties which be called .protecting duties, had
not escaped the atterition and the slalom bonalderation of the
Commission of Inquiry into Irish Affairs. • •
Mr. D. BROWN contended that in atqatedons of this kind
dltigrelt y4?Tbegnicled
L ON by 'A
said he wasct
sofurile that when theßeport
of the Commissioners of Inquire was prOduced, it Would be
found condemnatory of the policy of the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer in bringing forward a measure one day, and repealing
it the next.
The Petition was then read and ordered to be minted.
Mr. ELLISON presented a Petition from Newcastle-upon-
Tyne, praying tor a repeal of the Leather Tax..;-Tbe Petition
was laid on the table. •
A similar Petition was received front Linlithgow. In Scotland.
Laid oo Me table.
L &r C. MORGAN presented .a -Petition Imre the Sheriff,
Lessiowyses, and Gentry of Monmenthihirei praying for a ce-
lerities otlaraden, and retrenchment of aineeures. The Peti-
tion mated the existence°, great distress in the county ? but the
Hen. blabber did not approve of the remedies proposed in the
Petidon.—Ordered to be printed.
1- Mr. LYTTLETON presented a Petiden from an individual
of the name of Leicester, praying the attention of the House to
a discover/ be had made of the means of wrireg the accu-
mulation et hydrogen pa in Coal hiines.--The Raba was or-
&red to be printed.
Lord BINNING presented a Petition front certain persons
in Scotland. praying for leave to bring ins Bill to enable them
to erects National Monomentin Scotland.—Reforred to a Be..
lea Committee.
A Message came from the Lords. requesting the House to
communicate to their Lordships the Reports of 1117, 18110, and
1821, relative to the Administration •of Justice in Wales. • •
Mr. 11 UDIE. gave notice, that he would move on the first
supply day, either before going into a Committee or after, as
should seem most conveuient to the House, for a reduction of
the eight Inspecting (Akers of Militia in the forgo Islands,

1140:Wse etas Agee roildek id *Oa;
WAMflredae.p' •
Yr•.,HUSSNWIr plus Pismo trees As Maikentee
of 01- arnonskAkekeser Melee to the Ilictiadag Spam
Mr. BRO 4ht add, Oa oppresses did exist is .dds
!tam% Wes net aseeseel for Mat' teleran it ea the
Nowa Illetatireekateece had eraared of so a eatare
that he coo& net 'ovoid atieg It to-the ilease7:l he did k
with the iiope desigibe die rude. amble bmi meth dui bad
violated Oak deo, tad preveadag that dispece eel& sat
taterally snub to a eoseace of seeli conduct. It was well
aid by to licasorable /Weed of his, when it was said the Ma-
gistrates Otitis cooatry did their des ty'vrithoot espouse, that there
were two meats et iscrescag =puma t line, by paying thews;
and sealed, the expeea which arose frau*, Jamaica
ofjostke sad await*, it. the twv, he prefer that the
Magistrates ahead be pad at ceee. drealiasha to which
be alluded was ibis t he held he Me laid a kairviit wide h
was staid, that the firma appirii s ter a lieeise, though he
predated the mean caddie% nod k was is easy rape
quallied. yet be was asked if it. took In N ,aad what
Newmpazirsttrialt be &add happen to cal a rwspaper hes.:
die ta- &k J* was rettaid,the Haase. This ekes's-
Itavatroviudredin a ilaidlued Gomm and he knew that the amuse
pastimes indeed ha sir_ coasties toward the North. If he
should We, et the seetkpaiee of stela he *add ar-,
tablyit =Lidos° eall the attesstiba the Plods so*
• awe Ives hil esi Id&
IikVtiFIZBRIDOI gm notice that he seated meta a
*sidle to-morrow, relative to the Abeam. frees Regfeate.
It was a Petition to which, under the present eksv et
the country, be wished particularly to call the attar It Ms
fIUsMM inisters.
moved for Returns relative to the detracts ett-
led foto for applying the Hulks with Pardilims.
**lr. BEA lf/ MONT postponed, till the SO et Jigs, his motion
es the subject of the Leather Tax.
TITHES ON POTATO"' IN IRELAND.
Mr. S. COOPER presented a Petition from the
High Sheriff, Magistrates, *and Landed Proprietor%
of the county of Sligo, praying the notice of the
House to an attempt lately made to introduce into
that county a tithe on potatoes.- The Hon. Gentle-
man said that the Bishop of the diocese sanctioned the
innovation. The tax was most objectionable in every
Way, and was one of the chief causes of the irritation
of the public mind in the south of Ireland. He wished
to impress the subject on the attention of the House."
Mr. ABERCROMBY said, that the repeal of the
tithe on potatoes would recommend itself to every
friend of good order. Those who were acquainted
with the extent of moral injury caused by that sp..
tern in the south of Ireland should be anxious to pre-
vent its introduction into any part of that country.—
He had taken some pains to inquire into the subject ;
he found one Clergyman who admitted that he was
obliged to issue in fifteen years six hundred processes,
to recover his tithes on potatoes. If the House would ,
not pass a remedial law, they were bound not to I
suffer the extension of so bad a system to other dig.,
tricts, hitherto free from its evils.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, that the tithe on potatoes,
and its mode of collection, was more objeCtionable
than the tithe on any other article of produce. The
House should interfere on the score of humanity
alone. He considered it most extraordinary, that at
a time of public distress, a claim like the present
should beset up—(Hear, hear).
Mr. GOULBURN trusted the House would allow
him to take the earliest opportunity of explaining the
actual circumstances of the case which led to the Pe-
tition before them. He wished not to justify the in-
dividual alluded to, for introducing a claim of tithes
on potatoes in the county of Sligo, but he desired to
urge a few points in justification of his conduct in
the particular instance referred to. A Gentleman
who held in his own hands 200 acres of land had
compounded for his tithe with the clergyman for a
sum of 81. or 101. •He afterwards increased the quan-
tity of land to 1,000 acres. The tithe for wool, &c.
the clergyman demanded on the enlarged farm,
which the gentleman resisted, and refused to pay
more than the former agreement of 101. The cler-
gyman, after many fruitless appeals, resorted to law
proceedings; and, by the advice of his Counsel, in-
cluded a claim for tithe on potatoes, merely for the
purpose of recovering enough to defray the extra ex-
penses of the 'suit. The owner of the land, finding
that he could not succeed in resistinithe tithe on the
wool and lambs, offered to pay it, to which the cler--
gyman agreed, nd was satisfied to. abandon the suit,
if the law expenses were paid. On that point they
differed, and the suit still continued, He detailed
these -facts for the puypose of sheaving the source of
irritation in the public mind which led to the present
Petition.- He could not allow one statement to pass.
that of the Bishop of the diocese giving his sanction
Ito the claim. He had it on the authority of the
riiishop himself, that he -never ;did so. He had
merely said, when an appeal was made before him,
that the gentleman in .question had a right to pay
the costs of the suit. •
• Mr. HUME objected to the tithe system in Ireland
altogether. He had expected some reformation being
proposed by hit Majesty's Ministers ; but he found
the Session would pass over without any notice of
the question, if it was left to them. Every day
brought him communications on the subject,of such
a nature as to excite his surprise that none of the
Irish Members had taken up the question. He was
so fully impressed with the necessity of an alteration
in the system, that unless the matter was taken up
in some- more efficient quarter, he would take "ad-
vantage of an open day in the first week in June to
bring it before the House—(Hear, hear).
Mr. SPRING RICE said that the Petition was not
from an individual complaining of the conduct of
another person, but from the most respectable pot'e
tion of a most respectable county. They complained,
of the introduction amongst them of an evil which
had already been the source of much injury to the
community in the southern parts of Ireland. From
the repeated statements on the subject, he would infer
•that it was one which called for official interference.
With regard to the observations of the Hon. Member
for Aberdeen (Mr. Hume), he wished to have it un-
derstood that the Irish Members were not indifferent
on the question. They had desisted from interfering
with it,• solely for the purpose of. seeing what his
Majesty's Ministers intended doing ; to that cause
alone was attributable this apparent neglect. With
regard to remarks which be bad beard made Motive

_

to the lAA 4#o7,2l**olua; he wads* itt
they were tot ipteutilling Irdi the eolleedoi
rents with &Spoilt!, berm wri. Ilkstlabirti
mote their_imppitteie sad lteasubsillitt. • • •
Mr. DENS BROWNlriaid thitliko poi* ip 46,
Lion was likdrto irritate and hdlauutilm public **,
Mr. PLUNIArr said that the Govereiseht•
had instituted in-inctily into. the subject of tubes,
and be hoped at no distant day to have a memere
submitted to the Him& He, for bit part, would
frankly own, that after the most attentive eonsidesa-
ion of the question, be had not teen-any teteisedr
proposed which would be effectual, vrithout a gtms
violation of the private rights of the property of the
cletaNmen. • lie objectetito a Inettacted die sasion
on the general question,-on the mere *eradiation of
a Petition. lie had heard a at deal about the
severity of clergymen, and the sefferings of the people.
from them ; bat, in his (*tilos, there mamma more
severity in the heavy exaction of the tents by land.,
lords--(ifear, hear).--If the country gelation-did
oat ce-Opsissor foe the benefit of their tenants-bp d•
,reductioner rents, it would be in vain to eapeet any
relief from t mere commutation of tithes. Clergy-.
Men had very severe duties to perform, and for their
'remuneration they bad generally to deal with bankrupt
tenants, whose last shilling had been previously taken
from them to satisfy the landlord—(Hers, hear).
Sir N. COLTHURST trusted that the general•sub-
Jen of tithes would be brought forward by the Go-
vernment before the close of the Session. He was con-
vinced that the landlords of Ireland would gladly co-
operate in any plan for the amelioration of the people.
Mr.J. DAWSON said, that whenever the question
was brought forward, it would be found that the
clergymen of Ireland had always acted with the
greatest forbearance. The distresses of the peasantry
were not attributable to the collection of tithes, but
to the rapacity of landlords--(Hear, hear).
W.V. BEECHER said, that in his part of the
country the conduct of both landlords and clergymen
had been most exemplary.
Sir H. PARNELL was much astonished at the ob.

servations. of Hon. Members opposite upon the con-
duct of Irish landlords. The present system of tithes
in Ireland had, he thought, a most injurious effect.—
They were felt not only by the person immediately
paying them, but by the Public in general, because
they increased the value of the raw produce.
Colonel TRENCH said that he was ashamed to
say that the condition of the Irish peasantry reflected
great discredit on the gentry of that country. He had
as affectionate an attachment to the Protestant Church
as any man; but he thought he should best serve it
by promoting a friendly intercourse between the pea-
santry and the clergy. This, in his opinion, could
be effected by a commutation, without doing the
slightest injury to the Church.
Me. It. MARTIN said, the tenant when he took
his land, took into consideratioa the tithes he would
have to pay, and kept his biddings for the land down
accordingly. He agreed with the Right Honourable
Attorney-General, that the distress and discontent in
Ireland had arisen rather from exaction of rent than
by the tithe system. He would state an instance
within his own knowledge :—An agent of a friend of
his went to a poor wretch living in a hovel, in which
a Gentleman in England would riot suffer his pig
to reside—(A laus). The poor man tendered the
agent the sum of ten shillings as his quarter's rent.
—The agent, struck by Ms miserable appearance,
said—a Good Goo Imy poor man, how do you gat
your.rent together ? 1 would rather give you ten
shillings than take ten shillings from you." The
poor man replied, that he made his rent by begging;
he had not a single foot of land, but his hovel stood
near the high road leading to a celebrated watering-
place ; and his landlord said, the more miserable his
appearance the more money he would get, and the
more able he would' be to pay him about forty shil-
lings a-year for his cottage. The agent, however,
. most humanely refused to take ten shillings from a
poor wretch who got his living by begging. So much
for Irish landlords.

Colonel BUTLER defended the Irish landlords,
and maintained that they had not merited the severity
with which they had been treated.
Mr. CUILTEIS said, that whatever arrangements
should be made for Ireland with regard to the tithe
system, he would claim the same for England. He
was persuaded, that however great the hardships were
which Ireland endured from the present system, those
which'England endured were as great.
Mr. GRATTAN said he rose to protest against
what was stated by the Hon. Member who last spoke.
It was impossible that the sufferings of England, frosts
the tithe system, could-be as great as•those• of Ire-
land. The situation and' circumstances of the two
countries were widely diffet ent --(Mar, hear).-1-le
also protested against what had fallen from his Right
Han. Friend, the Attorney-General for Ireland, that
the Irish landlords were the cause of the evils which
arose from the tithe system. In his opinion, to ame-
liorate that system, the pciwer of the Consistorial
Court ought to be diminished, and the tithe of pota-
toes should be abolished altogether.
• Mi. C. HUTCHINSON said, he rose 'to protest
against what had fallen from the Hon. Member for
Susses (Mr. Curteis). If such a statement went
abroad, uncontradicted, it would do great injury.—
The Hon. Member must be in complete ignorance
of the situation of Ireland, when he said 'the tithe
system was as severe in England as in Ireland. If
the Hon. Member had travelled through the west or
' south of Ireland, he would have beheld such scenes of
misery as were-never seen in the most distressed pan
of England in the most distressatimes, and this was
in no small degree owing to the tithe system—(Hear).
He would have recommended the Hou: Member to
have visited Ireland before he had given hir•opiniCa
to the House. He (Mr. Hutchinson) had visited the
most distressed countries in Europe anctout of it, and
such pictures of distress and misery he never wit-
nessed as in the south and west of Itelitd. • Thete

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