Star.
London, England, 1822-01-11 00:00:00

!

I;

send taxes. I have in my pocket, said the Honour-
able Gentleman, the copy of a Petition written in
• 1815, which will perhaps throw some light on this
part of the subject, and shew that what had occurred
was easily foreseen at that time by every one bet his
Majesty's Ministers. With very little alteration',.the
Petition would do as well now as it did them
After reading the Petition, which it will -be seen
was not adopted,
Mr. Maaaorr said, he should propose an Amend-
ment. In general, he was not any advocate for Pe-
titions when they could be avoided : now, where a
difference of opinion existed, was it,aecessary to call
Meetings for the purpose of adopting them? • It
would, he thought, be better to leave such things to
their Representatives in Parliament. He must say,
that he hoped their Representatives would do their
duty in Parliament,' and not come to tickle the ears
of their constituents: he alluded to the speech of Mr.
Curteis, at Battle. That Gentleman now turned round
on the persons. with whom he had hitherto acted, and
accused them of having caused the present distress.—
At the late Election he *vas the firm friend of Mr.
Curteis, who had gone into Parliament undera pledge
to perform his duty independently. He (Mr. Mabbot)
now called on Mr. Curteis to say whether, on the dis-
cussion of the questions of economy in the House of
Commons, he had done his duty ? He would agree
that some good had resulted from the present Meet-
ing, since it had enabled him (Mr. Mabbott) to do
his duty, in coming forward, and saying what he
bad done—(Bravo!)—Having done this, having had
a touch, as he always would, at his Hon. Friend, and-
having, as he thought, said enough on that point, he
would now propose a very short Amendment to the
Petition which had been read. (The Amendment
was to extend the allegations of the Petition, to a ge-
neral representation of distress, as it pervaded the
sentry at large, instead of confining it to one parti-
cular class, the Agricultural Body.)—Mr. Mabbott
went on to say, that we were kindred souls, and
could not exist one without the other—(Bravo!)—
Much had been said about rents: he thought with
the Noble Lord, that we ought to look at home; and
he thought, too, that the interests of the farmer and
la rdlord were reciprocal.
Tue Cnatnneas, in speaking to a point of order,
said, that he did not think it competent to any Gen-
trizrran to propose a motion at variance with the terms
set the notice by which the Meeting had been called.
Mr. CHATFIELD here exclaimed from the gallery.
that the Member of Parliament who had been alluded
in. had gone to the ['owe of Commons with his hands
tied, and that he had now got them loose—(Laughter).
Here a desultory conversation arose, which lasted
some time, till at length Mr. LAW moved that the
Chairman should report the progress of the Meeting.
Upon this the CHA IRMA N stated, that it had been
in the first place moved that a Petition to Parlia-
ment should be adopted by the Meeting ; that an
.Amendrne.rt had been then moved by Mr. Blackman,
arid that a second Amendment had been proposed
1 y M. Nlabbott,
Mr. DUANAN felt the distress to be great ; the oc-
cupiers and owners of lane' were alike suffering ; but
Aril he could say Ne sutor ultra crepidam : for
though the shoe might pinch, every one ii.ight not
be able to point out the mode of relief. He would
say to the Legislative Body, " I suffer, it is for you
to decide how relief may be given." Let us, said
11i r. Donovan, ask for assistance, but let us not, in
so doing, travel out of our splice.
Mr. CIM TFILLD said that die Gentleman was talk-
ing to very little purpose. ‘Ve were in a trap, and
although we knew the way of getting out, we niu.tt
not say chat it was, but leave it to others to tell.
" I am not," said Mr. Chatfield, " for hag speeches,
but I do like a little common souse."

MI. CURTLIS, M.P. rose to answer the particular
question which had been put by Mr. Chatfield, whe-
ther he (Mr. Cut teis) had not gone into Palharnent
with his hands tied ? He admitted that he had gone
into Parliament with his hands tied ; for at the last
General Election, when the Ft eeholders of the County
had placed him in the hotionrable situation in which
he then stood, as one of their Representatives, lie had
entered into a specific engagement with diem, that
he would alwayi pay the utmost attention to their
wishes, and obedience to their instructions. That he
had always held sacred, and that promise lie had, to
the hest of his ability, fulfilled ; and he was this day
in attendance for the purpose of ascertaining what
those wishes were. In Parliament he always sat on
the independent bench ; and with whatever inde-
pendence they had sent him into the House of Com-
mons, that he still retained. He was under no tie to
Ministers ; and had no connection with the Opposi-
tion. It appeared to him that Ministers had not acted
with kindness towards the Agriculturists, through
fear of offending the commercial men and manufac-
turers. In answer to Mr. Mabbott's question, as to
his conduct with relation to economical reform, he
could conscientiously say that he had almost uni-
formly voted on the side of retrenchment, never fasti-
diously, but always conscientiously.
Mr. Davis GILBERT observed, that the Petition
contained at the very outset a gross and palpable
falsehood ; for it spoke of the distressed owners of
land, which was a mere mockery, as the owners of
land were actually gainers by the present circum-
stances, in having raised the rent of their land in
consequence of the'high price of corn, which rent
was still exacted notwithstanding the- great depres-
sion of price for every article of consumption. Was
it not then an insult to common sense, as well as a
violation of plain truth, to allege the distress of the
owners of land, but very few of whom had made
any sacrifice whatever to relieve their tenantry by
reducing their rents? What Lord Chichester said he
had done in the letting of his estates was, no doubt,
very laudable ; but he would ask that Noble Lord,
whether even he was not a gainer by the present state
of things, and whether his rents were not considerably
higher than in 1792 ? Yet the peasantry, the labour..
ing poor of the country,were writhing ander tie most
severe distress. It was then for these poor deserving
people that he felt solicitude, it was for them that he
would seek relief, for he would much rather behold
10,000 people living comfortably than one living
splendidly—(Loud cheers).—He combatted the argu-
ment of Mr. Kemp, that the mechanical orders were
rather benefitted by the present condition of the coun-
try,
as their wages were fixed, as that argument was
founded upon a fallacy. A case had indeed yester-

day come to his knowledge, which was quite contra-
dictory to the Von. Gentr - 's notion. It was that
of his hlacksmills, at Uck d, etbo told him (Mr.
Gilbett) that, finding the fa ' paid a proportion
Tr"
of thelwages of their labours out of the Peovrates
which were exacted from him, he had reduced the
wages of his journeyman 2s. per week, leaving him
to apply to the Poor-rates if be thought proper.—
Advetting to the observation of Mr. Donovan, that
the People should not interfere with the business of
Legislation, but leave everything to the wisdom of
Parliament, he contrasted that extraordinary remark
(which he was astonished to hear from any English-
man)
with the declaration of the Hon. Mesiber for
the County, that he felt himself bound to obey the
instructions of his Constituents—for how could the
Hon. Member obey those instructions if the People
were not at liberty to express them ? But the worthy
Magistrate's sentiment was quite alien to the princi-
ples and feelings of an Englishman. •An Hon. Mem-
ber (Mr. Curtets) had stated at Battle, that it was
necessary to pay tithes for the salvation of our souls,
from which it would seem that those who did not
pay tithes were in a fair way to be damnedl— ( Loud
laughter).—But quitting this observation, he declared
that'he was no enemy' to tithes ; the title to tithes
was, indeed, more sacred and ancient than that by
which landowners held their estates; yet many of these
landlords were very forward to call for an abrogation
of tithes. But what was the meaning of that call ?
Why, it was simply this, take away the. tithes and
pay no more rent. But what difference, in point of
equity, did the existence of tithes form to the land-
lords? Their estates were bought under a pledge
for the payment of the tithes, and their purchase
money was regulated accordingly. With respect to
the interest of the public debt, to which Mr. Black-
man had referred, that Gentleman was under a mis-
take; for that interest did not amount to 40 millions
—it was, indeed, only 28 millions, out of which the.
fundholders paid in taxe., as consumers, at least nine-
twentieths, which reduced the amount of interest paid
to them to about 15 millions. Mr. Blackman had
called for the repeal of various taxes, and yet ple4ded
forcibly for the payment of the interest of the debt.
Mr. Gilbert sat down amidst considerable applause.

. _
Mr. Bt.ACKMAN now proposed the following Re-
solutions, in lieu of the Petition; (and on the first
being put, the CHAIRMAN said to Lord CHICHESTER
and Mr. PARTINGTON, " There is a decided majority
of hands in favour of Mr. Blackman's Resolution :
what am I to do now r)-
.. 1, That it appears to this leeting, by the Report of the
Agricultural Conunittee passed during the last Session of Parlia-
ment. that there has been no fixed standard of value in this
country during a period of almost twenty-five years; but that
an unsettled currency has cast injury and injustice in succession
upon the diff.rent ranks of society ; has involved the farming,
manufacturing, and trading interssts of the country in great
difficulties; and has produced derangement in all the transac-
tions of lite.

" 2. That the present state of the farming and trading inte-
rests of the Rapes of Lewes and Pevensey, fully bears out the
justice and accuracy of the general description of the country con-
tained in the foregoing assertions of the Agricultural Committee.
" 3. That this Meeting has always considered It Vibe the first
duty of thehlouse of Commons to inquire into all the injury and
injustice which may be cast in succession upon the different
ranks of society ; and if, unhappily, an unsettled currency be a
Legislative measure of injury and injustice, in which the House
itself has necessarily borne its part, yet for that the House has
seen its great error, and the sad draughts which have been made
on the happiness and morals of the people, by a departnre from
a fixed standard of value during so long a course of years; this
Meeting humbly hopes that the House will, on assembling. enter
into an early and careful revision of all Legislative measures
enacted during that period, connected with the value of money,
and particularly into the merits of the forte Laws passed in 1804
and 181.1; and as it is evident that if injury and injustice have
atisen during so long a period, out of voluntary contracts between
individuals, which are capable of adjustment, that still greater
injury and injustice must now arise out of the involuntary obli-
gation imposed by the State during the same period, which are
not capable of adjustment. This ,denting further hopes, that
the House will enter into a careful examination, with a view to
their speedy reduction of all charges on the 6.11 List—of all
Places and Pensions—of the Pay and Allowances to the Army
and Navl—of all Taxes on Consumption disproportioned to the
value of the raw article, particu'arly Malt and Salt—of all Pe-
nalties—of all Ricognizances for Securities—of all Taxes upon
Personal Property, Probates, Legacies, and Stamps—of all Taxes
on the Conveyance of Landed Property, and especially the in-
creased Costs of Justice in the Courts of Law and Equity; and,
moreover, if it should"appear upon investigation. that in conse-
quence of any ill-judged attempts on the part of the distressed
manufacturing classes to ward off that portion of injury and in-
justice which an unsettled currency cast on them in the order of
succession, it became expedient to pass, upon the plea of (State)
necessity, any arbitrary and unconstitutional laws affecting the
liberty of the subject generally ; this Meeting fervently hopes
that the House will now see the justice and propriety of repealing
all such laws, and of giving to the country, by some efficient and
salutary measure a much better security than any it now possesses
against the recurrence of an evil so justly and strongly deprecated
by the Agricultural Committee, as an unsettled currency."

Lord CHICHESTER sugge,ted, that those who were
not owners or occupiers of land should retire.
The CHAIRMAN here announced to the Meeting,
that the spew of hands was in favour of Mr. Black-
man's first Resolution.

Upon the recommendation of Mr. PARTING?" it
was settled that several sheets of paper should be sent
round the room, upon which every owner or occupier
of land should be required to write his name and ad-
dress, with the vote he meant to pronounce.
Lord GAGE said a few words in support of Mr.
Partington's proposition; but by this time the Hall
was nearly empty, the people having concluded that
the Resolutions were carried. But some signatures
in support of the Petition having been obtained to the
papers which were distributed,
I'He CHAIRMAN declared that the Petition was car-
ried, and it was ordered to be left for signatures.
The Meeting broke up about four o'clock, and soon
after a number of Gentlemen met to dine at the Star
Inn, and Mr. DAVIS GrLBERT was called to the Chair.
After dinner " the health of the KING" was drank
with the warmest applause. Several other toasts
followed ; among which were, " Prosperity to the
County of Sussex," and •' Success to Commerce."

Upon the retirement of Mr. DAVIS GILIIIRT, Mr.
Kamp, the late Member for Lewes, was loudly called
to the Chair, and he immediately proposed, " More
money and less taxes," which was drank with applause;
as was 66 A full and speedy investigation of the cause
of the Agricultural Distress of the country, with the
discovery of an effectual remedy."
Mr. E. Jonarsow took occasion to propose the
health of a distinguished individual, whom he was
happy to see in the room, and than whom, he said,
there was not in England a man more competent to
give sound advice to the agriculturists, and to pro.
mote their relief. He meant " Mr. Cobbett.".

Mr. HITCHINS declared that he could not remain
in the room if the health of Mr. Cobbett were drank ;

x in h:s Jetta
prosoutoxiespecially af
ut erp the
thee
ofewsutlsseeman had lately
on
to Lord Egreinont._/
Several voices called loudly, „Tarn him out r mit ,
the cry of Shame,
PMr.
artington then left the room. violenceius and
redomMr.
Cobbett r predominated.—Mr. Hruittcahl
Mr. Cowgirl. immediately rose and said, " Gentle-
men, I-am extremely sorry that anything connected
harmony with
of
my intention to form a part.- Very anxious to know,
Int
hee should
company, have
v oef which occurred
wast o disturbn ot a t firste
from my own observation, what should pass at this
Meeting to-day, I came to the town ; but having satis-
hid that desire, I had intended, and had adopted the
usual steps for, dining at the inn where I am staying.
Being told by several farmers, that it was expected
that I should dine here; being told that my absence
would cause disappointment to numerous persons, I
came to this dinner, having, too, a righ: to do it with-
out any asking, and without assigning any reasons.
As to the proposing of my health, if not wholly un-
expected by me, it proceeded from a Gentleman
with whom I am wholly unacquainted ; and it was a
proposition (if my wishes ought to have had anything
to do with the matter), the adoption of which Was
calculated to give me pain rather than pleasure, see-
ing that the Gentleman who did me the honour to
make the proposition did, by his manner of doing it,
evidently entertain hopes connected with its effects,
which hopes I feel but too sensibly my want of power
gp realise. But, Gentlemen, the toast having been
oNiosed, and that, too, in the extraordinary manner
you have witnessed, I will, at any rate, with your per-
mission, make a remark or two on that manner. If
the person who has made the opposition had been ac-
tuated by a spirit of fairness and justice, he would not
have confined himself to a detached sentence of the
Paper from which he has read, but would have taken
the whole together ; for, by taking a particular sen-
tence, and leaving out all the rest, what writing is
there that will not admit of a wicked interpretation ?
As to the particular part which has been read, I should
not, perhaps, if I had seen it in print, and had had
time to cool a little, have sent it forth in terms so vet),
general as to embrace all the farmers of this County ;
but, as to those of them who put the bell round the la-
bourer's neck, I beg leave now to repeat, in its severest
sense, every word of the passage that has been read.
Born in a farm-house, bred up at the plough-tail.
with a smock-frock on my hack, taking peat delight
in all the pursuits of farmers, liking their society and
having amongst them my most esteemed friends, it is
natural that I should feel, and I do feel, uncom-
monly anxious to prevent, as far as I am able, that
total ruin which now menaces them. But, the la
bourer, was Ito have no feeling for him ? WAS not
he my countryman too? And was I not to feel in-
dignation against those farmers, who had had the
hard-heartedness to put the hell round his neck, and
thus wantonly insult and degrade the class to whose
toils they owed their own ease? The statement of
the fact was not mine ; I read it in the Newspapers,
as having come from Mr. Ellman the younger; he,
in a very laudable manner, expressed his horror at
it; and was not I to express indtnation at what Mr.
Ellman felt horror? That Gentleman and Mr. Webb
Hall may monopolise all the wisdom in matters of
political economy ; but, are they, or rather is Mr.
Ellman alone, to engross all the feeling too ?---Elt
was here denied that Mr. Ellman had said the bell
had been put on by farmers.l—Very well, then, the
complained of passage has been productive o bene-
fit to the tal niers of thi., county ; for, as the thing
stood in the Newspapers, the natural and . unavoid-
able inference was, that that atrocious, that inhuman
act, was an act of Sussex farmers. Having, Gen-
tlemen, made this explanation, I shall proceed to no
other topic unless called upon so to do by the voice
of a decided majority of the company; but, at the
same time, I beg you to be assured, that I lament
this occurrence only as it has been the cause of dis-
turbing your harmony, and by no means as it relates
to myself, to which I will add, that I feel no anger
against those with whom the objection originated,
understanding pretty well the quarter whence it did
originate, and knowing how to make allowance for
the irritability of mortification and chagrin. We are
not, Gentlemen, to expect to enjoy the triumph of
reason over conceited ignorance, without having to,
endure whatever vengeance the latter may have the'
poser to inflict:—

Here a conversation took place in which the
CHAIRMAN, Messrs. BLACKMAN and CHIPS'S took a
part, urging the necessity of hearing Mr. Cobbett.
Mr. CORBETT resumed.—." I shall then, Gentle-
men, offer you a few observations on some of the
topics that have this day been matter of discussion
in another place; and I beg you to feel no pain at
any little interruptions that I may experience, I
being well satisfied that events will make those ap-
plaud who may now express dissatisfaction. What
a cause is this for assembling together? It has fre-
quently happened that a particular branch of trade
has been greatly injured; that, owing to some circum-
stance of peace or of war, of cession or of conquest,
this or that branch of commerce has been almost
an-
nihilated ; but, the history of the world has furnished
until now no instance in which a whole body of far-
mers and landlords were upon the point of being
overwhelmed in ruin, which, indeed, is nothing short
of the breaking up of the very foundations of society.
A Noble Lord (Lord Chichester) observed to-day,
that the farmers would do better to remain at home;
for, that he was convinced, that there was no re-
medy but in individual exertion. Now, if his Lord-
ship meant that it was right for farmers to be
industrious and not to waste their time, he was
right; but, surely, when they find that, in spite
of all their industry and frugality, they grow
poorer and poorer, and at last see ruin staring them
in the face, it becomes them, as men of good sense,
to inquire into the cause and to seek for a remedy.—
And as to individual exertion being that remedy, how
can any individual exertion make head against the
irresistible and all-pervading cause that is now at
work ? Is it meant that the farmers should retrench,,
that they should lessen their personal expenses, that
they should come down in their way of living ?
Why, you have retrenched, you have come down.
This is already done; and I defy any human being
to point out how you, by individual exertion, are to
do more than you have already done. Do the Land-
lords imagine that they are continue to receive
high rents out of the savings in thy tarmea's family

it augments
it ttel
the
know how small a proportion
expenses? Do D°eventhoeyn the mosptb:eesextavranert::,s,nct
scale, t~
the rent of
any one other branch of the tenant's outgoing'?
But, above all things, do they consider thereat cause
of the present distress? and if they do, how can they
snßidaibldldecaeessebtth;in the same proportion;
Pr mitigated
b imagine i n
d i
r thatduni its
exertion?
.n
eo
amount
ommonly
lled
does as to all the taxes ; it triples even the
eciotvaf Myet
hn
mortgagera e ea
bound
toll at turnpike-gates ; it is, in fact, as to all practical
purposes, an act of confiscation on every man botird
by lease, mortgage, bond, or other contract for tilt,.
What, against the operation of an Act like this, is t,
be done by individual exestion ? The Ministers de-
precate interference, and, by the mouth of Lord C.
chester, tell you to-day that they can do nothing to
relieve you ; for, be you assured, that what he said
will be said by them. I would, Gentlemen, that the,
had not interfered, and that they did not inter
now ; but have they not interfered, and do they n"•
still interfere, by the hands of the tax-gatherer, .{:ki
by the means of Mr. Peel's Bill ? And here let rte
express my surprise that it should have been thotio:t
proper to advise you to appeal to the wisdom of
liament—to its power, if any one likes ; hut, u
I know a great deal better than to advise any o:,e
say a word tending to bring that body into contemn
I must say, that considering that cvery evil you (far.
plain of is, at once, traced to acts of that body, it
does appear to me to be rather out of place t.) make
your appeal to its wisdom for redress—to its mercy,
if some compliment must be paid it ; but, to AiT.7AI
to its wisdom, at the very moment when )ou are
setting forth the deplorable effects of its acts, i,
say, that it has brought you into misery
what it was doing, and, in this, I am convinced
do that celebrated body great injustice; for I:u
m
certain they did notsnean to co what they have
Still wisdom may, with some, be matter of taste;
with these it may be wisdom to p: oduce a strre
things, in which, while the nation is vethimk„c‘i
with food, it is necessary to raise taxes on the ov. '7
of the food, in order to send a part of the mouths
seek food under the scotching sun of the Cape
Goo 1 hope ; a state of timings in which, while f..;
farmer is unable to find money to employ laboMe;
to work for his benefit, he is compelled to find
to employ them to break stones into very small hi:s
to make very smooth roads for others to ride a,d
drive along; a state of things which has awake::el
the bright idea of producing relief to the nation, will
preserving the mi,rals cf the people, by setting thera
to dig holes one day, and fill them up the next;_
according to the estimate of these persons it may he
wisdom to produce a state of things like this ; but, ac-
cording to my el4tniate, such a phrase, at such a.time,
ought not to have found its way into a Petition to 13.1ria.
ment.—l am stit e every one recollects that, as long as
the farmers confined themselves to the adoption, in
their Petitions, of the absurd reveries of Mr. Web')
Hall, they were never advised to keep at home. Na:.,
it is perfectly notorious, that the landlords (Seginning
with those in Huntingdonshire) expressly called min)a
them to leave home, to bestir themselves, to meet,
and to petition. This change of advice, then, mu,t
have a cause. The subject has been discussed:
farmers begin to see the real cause of their suffer'i:zs;
they trace those sufferings to the taxes; these to
enormous standing army, the high salaries, I
and grants, and the still more enormous antouiv ci
the debt. fhe farmers in Hertfordshire have agred
to petition for a reduction of these; those of Linco
shire, particularly of Holbeach, have done the tame;
and now, all of a sudden, some, at least, of
landlords, have discovered, that the farmers s\ rued
do better to stay at home, and mind the plough:—
The fact is, Gentlemen, that many of the landler,h
are something else besides landlords; they are place-
men and pensioners (by the bye, Lord Chichester i'
Postmaster-General); they receive taxes; they, t!lcr.:-
fore, very naturally dislike to hear the suffet lag) im •
puted to those taxes ; and, besides this, they as wel
as the fundholder, the mortgagee, and the my•lacel
and unpensioned landlord, profit, as placemen an.!
pensioners, by the rise in the value of money, ani,
therefore, they would Fain prevent the farmers front
busying themselves about the currency; and would
have them stay at home, and use individual exertion.
To shew the inefficacy of Corn Bills, America, whic:t
has never imported a sack of corn since the country
was discovered by Columbus, has, since the passing
of Mr. Peel's Bill, seen prices fall in the proport:on ct
from one hundred and fifty to forty.five: and I read
in a Newspaper of only the other day, that one met,
chant's house in Philadelphia had sent, in the cour'e
of the year, gold to the amount of a million of clams
to England ! Here are cause and effect. Ea lay:'
drains away gold; the American Banks, which aN
compelled to pay in cash, draw in their paper, ar.,t
prices fall. Thus, Gentlemen, lam convinced,
thing will go on until May, 1823; and, if Mr. Peel,
Bill remain m full force, our taxes must come clov.a
to even less than sixteen millions a year, or all the
I landed estates Must change owners ; and if this
remain in full force to May,1823, and continue thc:-.cc-
forth in full force, the price of good wheat, on an ave-
rage of years, will not exceed 4s. the Winchester busk,.
If it does, I will be content to pass for a foal for tie
remainder of my life. I have now, Gentlemen,
express the gratification I feel arthe attentive manner
in which you have been pleased to'hear me; and :c
add, that if what I have said shall have the srnallr,:
tendency to lessen the magnitude or to shorten the
duration of the distresses of any one of you, I shall
deem that much more than a compensation for the
troyble of coming to Lewes, and also for the rre
mentary unpleasant personal circumstances which
have taken place in this room.
Mr. Coen Ert's address was received with applause,
and the company soon after separated.

Yesterday, the Earl TALBOT arrived from Irelane.
In the evening his Lordship, accompanied by Lund
ARTHUR Mu., visited the Adelphi Theatre.
THE Onnroatoa.—The management of the Orato-
rios, at Covent-Garden Theatre, has been resigned by
Mr. BISHOP, and in consequence of that resignatioi
will be transferred.to lhe proprietorship of Mr. Doc HS A I
with whose talents the musical world are well ac-
quainted. Sir GROROR SMART: is engaged to condtnt
tuese performances, which will be greatly extended in
point of duration, and promise to exhibit a more tnil-
liant assemblage, of English talent in particular, th,to
Ims liver been witnessed upon a similar occasion.

iiii\ii.