Star.
London, England, 1824-02-21 00:00:00

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redaties. Had not oar &ma bees so liaised, such
losses gat _ have bees avoided. •
Mr. BININAL obiaved on the defective conduct
trranea sending compute tie West Indies, ' pities-
lsyamaiee, where they were net at first pot ions
proper Ranters. There was groat 'inattention on this
subject. He also. observed, that be was glad to fiad that
there was likely. to. be Mt mil of the system of favour-
itism anent
.st the reginsents=4-eath Iniment irks to
take its tarn in going *eras the Line. That was proper.
It would be much to the honour of the Commander-in-
Chief to put as end to such a system of favouritism. He
;would not vote against the proposed itemise. As to
'the West India Islands, be would observe a scrupulous
silence: the time, however, must come when all of them
would be compelled to speak out. The time would ar-
rive when silence wouldle criminal=-(Haar, hear).-:-
He hoped the amendment would not be pressed.
Mr. HOBHOUSE feared that his sentiments were of
so antiquated a nature that they were net likely to
here much sympathy either in or out of that House.—
He premised, by regretting that this country had not
proclaimed war lm year, if the iniquitous invasion of
Spain could not be otherwise averted. We should then
have maintained our proper situation. As to the ques-
tion, he was.against standing armies. They Were un-
constitutional, and all history told him how standing
armies had always been used. Four thousand addi.
tional troops were asked, as if they were a mere trifle;
and yet-that was twice the amount of what were re-
quired from 1794 to 1799, when the kroliticai hemi-
sphere was se overclouded. He lamented that-his coun-
trymen could bear the sight of such additions; that
they could hear to be shouldered in almost every street
by the military. He had protested against such a'
state of things. He could do nothing else ; but pro-
test he must so long as he had the opportunity. He
.wooki always endeavour to arouse the people to watch-
fulness on this subject. Military forces, and standing
armies, had overturned all Constitutions; and he there-
fore feared, that standing armies would eventually de-
Stroy our free Constitution. Why were twenty thou-
sand troops wanted in England? What were they for ?
AU was quiet. Why were more forces required than
Cromwell possessed to keep the kingdom he had
Wgined. He lamented. that a County Member (Mr.
odehouse) should have supported the increase of the
:standing army. He also lamented, from what-he had
heard, that twenty thousand men were to be sent to
'lreland, that the system of force was still to be es-
tended to Ireland. He wished there was a change in die
system regarding Ireland—(Hear, hear). Let force be
made' to give way to persuasion ; and proscription be
succeeded by an extension of contrary conduct on the
part of the Government and Crown (Hear, hear).
As to the increase of the Army, he was grieved that
the people were not aroused to the conviction of the
dangerous consequences of these standing 'armies.—
Could The country see the aggregate of the evil, it
must have long ago been aroused to, complaint. In
conclusion, he begged to ask whether barracks were to
be erected in then Wang's Mows, at Charing-cross, in the
'very heart of Westminster ? Such buildings, indeed,
appeared to be in prowess. He trusted that he should'
hare a distinct answer to this question.
Lord PALASEItSTON replied.—As far as he had,
hest able to collect the opinion of the Rouse, the Hon.
iiiendeses foe Westminster and Aberdeen were the only
&abaft who intended to oppose the, vote; it was
thereon nnoacessary for him to enter further 'into the
discisseles than to answer some of the objections Which
the, had raised,. In the first place, the We. Member
for Aberdeen had seemed toconsider the reinforcements
for the West India service, necessary ; for although he,
;had in the early part of his speech denied this, he bad
tafterwards conceded it..- But he said, that, he had
eonine: ad to this estiowees of the last year only because
ilit was, then expected that thecouatry might be engaged
in awar, and but for that probability he would have
proposed a seduction to the amount of 10,009 men.--
Ut Hen. Gentleman might perhaps allude to aa Ori,
eon entertained by himself and" his friends ; bat hie
Lordship felt it necessary, on his own part, to declare
that such an expectation formed no past of the grounds.
on which he•had solicited the vote of last year. On the
contrary, the Government. thee declared its resolution of
remaining strictly neutral, and he could not believe that
the House had beeninduced to agree to the vote for any
such reason: he was quite sure-that none such had been
proposed by hiin. What were the means by which the
Alton. Gentleman would have the reduction which he re-
commended effected? In Ireland, he was of opinion,
that if certain measures were adopted, the military force
at present there might be withdrawn and applied to
Idle reinforcement of the Colonial service. Did any man
in his senses believe, that if the Catholic question were
set at rest to-morrow, it would have such a more than
magic effect upon Ireland, that the force employed there
might be safely removed at once? The Hon. Member
next proposed, that a reduction should be made from
the Cavalry and the Guards. lie (Lord Palmerston)
was prepared to contend, that there was not a larger
Somber of men in these regiments than was.fairly pro.
portioned to the infantry of the line; and that it was
impossible to reduce them without also reducing the
'efficiency of that establishment, which even in times of
peace, it was necessary to keep up, that armies might
rbe formed if war should break -out. The Honouralle
Member had alluded to 'the Militia and .Yeomanry;
•but he knew very well that neither of those forces
could' in any way be made serviceable for Colonial re-
inforcements. Still, he said, if nothing could be done
from any of these sources, the augmentation of the army
might be effected at a less expense, and that instead of :is
new regiments, additions might be made to the old ones.
He (Lord Palmerston) was aware that large regimental
`establishments were less expensive in proportion than
small ones; but from the nature of the Colonies, and man-
ner in which the forces were distributed, an addition of
fifty men to each regiment, although it would increase
the numerkal force of the establishment, would not add
twits disposable 'force, becausethe addition would be
wade in many places where it was not wanted, and it
others it would be inadequate. The expense at which
the new regiments were made was only that of the
.Officers ; and this, it must be remembered, was less than'
it might seem to be, foe they wens supplied from the
'Half-pay List, and the additional expense was therefore
only the. difference between full and half.pay, which
'was not, as the term would imply,anohalf, but in some
instance a third, .rind ia others only a fourth. The
Fe Member underthegallery i Mr. Borstal) had
' tiettihat the system of quartennttroois in the
Indies was, not sufficiently, attended' to. The
Le althiness of the barracks had, however, long occupied
e attention of the Government, and pains had
'`ein Wren, by sending co :apart nnuentomansine
-.4e, to procore.the beskopmons respecting each sta-
lk (Lord Palmerston) was awerwthat somessations

bad.. been fogad unfavourable tie the nears6.--__
&Re uwwwureent bad beeseagaged in making arrange-
ments with the legislative of the island of Jamaica,
1M alter'those stations; and although some difficulties
Said arisen, he could assure the Honourable Member
vied the Home, that the subject had been by no Meon4
hut sight of. With respect to the time and season at
which troops were sent to the wee Indies, it was true
that it was extremely desirable the reinforcements should
Ufa* there at particular periods of the year. The re•
to which his Honourable Friend behind (Mr.
Viodebouse) had alluded, had unavoidably been sent/
altar very anfavoUrable circumstances; bet this was•
sue of the Intedicial consequences arming from the
force in the colonies being brought to so low an arnonnt,
that when a,reinforeciment .beeente immediately neces-
sary, there was zio means of :applying it, but by send-
ing a regiment from home, when perhaps the Govern-
*sent could not controul thelperiod of its arrival. The,
Honourable Member, for Westmin.ter had said, that;
be was in the sole possession of peculiar opinions on
the subject before the House.' He (Lord Palinerston),
slid not think, by the Honourable Member's argu-
mentssof this evening,, be was at all likely to lose the
possession of those opinions.; and for his own part he'
g.ord Palmerston), as he would not willingly rob the,
Honourable Member of the exclusive credit to which'
tat" were entitled, should say not a word against them.;
It was by no means his wish to ridicule that proper,
constit6tional jealousy with which the people of Eng-
land had itways regarded the establishment of a stand-
ing army but he would put it to the Honourable Gen-!
demen, or to those who were sincere admirers and well-1
wisher' of the Constitution, whether it was not better to
reserve the expression of their opinions on the subject
to a fitting opportunity; and whether they did not, in
fact, throw ridicule on the cause they wished to support
by introducing these opinions upon occasions to which
they did not apply?
Mr. HOSHOUSE said that the Noble Lord, for the
purpose of rounding a period, had exaggerated what
had fallen from him. He did not say that he was in
the sole possession of theopioions he had expressed ; and
at all events the Noble Lord might have done justice to.
the conscientiods motives which prompted that expres-
sion, even though it had been as ill-timed us he seemed
to think it. He was quite satisfied, notwithstanding
the ridicule which the Noble Lord thought his (Mr.
Hobhouse's) injudicious support bad thrown upon Con-
stitutional principles, that they remained unhurt by it.
He was sore he had dune those principles as little harm
his support, as the Noble Lord had done by his attack.
Colonel DAVIES thought the estimate an extrava-
gant.one, but he was still not prepared to go the full
length of the Motion.
Mr. HUMS replied, the ground upon which he had
proposed his Motion remained unshaken by anything
he had heard from the Noble Lord. He regretted that
upon this occasion the benches below him were empty,
and that he was deprived of the support he looked for
rvan those' Honourable Members who had usnallrad-
ocated the same side of similar questiOns. Ite, how-
ever, left the Motion with the Committee, satisfied that
had done his duty.
Mr. CALCIAFT, having *array voted fee the re.
• of the military force with those of his linnostr.
whose abse#ce hit Honourable Fries'
Ham) ad. just rezr feltishuself veiled upon to
y Stet boilsi as tYistkk the proposal& iodation for the
at the Oalossissteubl be opposed epos the same
grounds. He had, in concert with those Honourable
Friends, voted for reduction anal the force of the country
bad been reduced to sada an amount that le thought,
it could not be brought lower: beyond thin he was net
prepered to ger and thistle thought sufficiently accounted
for the absence of those Honourable Members.
natio sgaposiso of his. Bmosar, 11r. "Mee thea withdrew
his assemdloset, and subedteted the following-6o imam' el the
wools wskrompthrse iirerind stria" la the olgiqui amiss, 'she
words:" lizty4kree thousand nun" be umbstisiesdh,
Tit Bare them giber tiers war
' Pr r • HP
it . •
On doe io.adingse it roamers the How woestilllia Cloak,
Ins. Amd esionnolieseenonsem semi los, -
411a.thrioassi4 416.110* r Gawil (Meeon foreign
latotidith
11n. MgMlisseik that aßen shit am merifestatles which bad
liolumtplatooof the dimpoiltion of the liesso to suppose a largo stand-.
leg tawr~, bis dinnillree degrivo them of Its. -.l4mneie by cur.
'Wing the Staf,*ner divide the Muse on the subjeta.—Thevose
was taiga snoigtatf‘ •
se114,1101) fen AlloONDOes for Plisses in Public Dopamine.*
Madinah and Surgical ]Materials.
. MASS the seine for Ireland.
idtdr,Smt for the Volunteer' eartizareat- Britain.
samossfer tin Noe as sine •
MONS Ise the WinimirienW of four troop of Deggegas lib"
four
Comagenise Ms .
411,411,f0r dioellagge"ll
41011,11 tater die Pared einand stow Agway net being
Cabo& ei_lWirmainev_
400,01101ffetlisesiseraln Oriel gitilimiildeertein fore,
"SU far Garrlaine in .Ireland. •
i1f154.44S for the fedi pay of Grouted Ono die service•er
soattarasd.
A 1135.0. for Cams ea bays,. sal aims mace&
Moms tar mon an•wsosss tosaloca4 Wow.
ies; tow for the ham d Poreirespialtoar.
Amass In-Poodosiers of Chats
4115;417 Inaessissersot
0219;4111 eitolienalweere of Chase linegisolo
.133,1164 Sd. llilisary Asylum.
litslerdi Widows'
Atinii,lll4 lie, larkimatr Siren* IMO "hominy, and
irar Wars& _

X 47,11441; lid. liapersametfea-Alleemileh
,Snow Redrat Allawasae for wreed Departments in
Greet
.Brissim .
,1141911 fat the satneiertfae to isel
Af101,1116 M. lid. ier arsiatratoo—
tenons la kebob

*Be* Veteran Bac-

*Wirt EfirilleArtg.

Sir GEORGE CLERK said he should now proceed-
to submit to the House the rotes of Navy Estimates for
the year, and proposed a vote of 68;2661. for the yanks
of persons employed at the Admiralty-office, civil officers
generally, and persons employed in the Dock-yards.
Mr. HUME said he had heard complaints of the
curtailments which bad been made from the salaries
of the lower order of persons working is the Dock-yards,
which was-at the rate of 20 per cent. whilst those in
the higher order had started a curtailment of no more
than per cent.
Sir GEORGE CLERK obtervetthat the smallness
of the salaries of the higher orders who were still obliged
to keep ep the appearance of Gentlemen bad rendered
it expedient, -when reducing generally the Salaries at the
peace, to make only a reduction of ,rti: per cent. This
was the other tresessary) because, though an officer'
shoutd be thirtytor fall years in this department, his
sala±7 thin- child not eiceed=above 4501. elver.
The vote was agreed to.
AWN for *irks to permits in the Navy Pay Mee.
.17,070 fee tie same ie the Navy once.
411.64115 for tilt Victualling 0111“.
.117,015 fat the controlled Expenses of*Deptford Doti-yard.