Star.
London, England, 1809-04-25 00:00:00

DORCHES I'ER JAIL.

Mr. WHITBREAD said he held in his hand a
petition from Mr. Henry White, confined in Dor-
chester Gaol for a libel, which he presented, and, it
was accordingly read by the clerk, and contained the
several allegations in his former petition, as far as re-
lated to the mode of proceeding upon his trial.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, the only motion that
he would make in the present instance was, to move
that the petition he laid on the table. He wished it
to be understood, that he did not hold himself respon-
sible for the allegations, which, if well founded, he
would make the subject of future inquiry. He I
had to state, at the request of Mr. Gilbert Wake-
field's relations, that they never heard of his having
been charged with exciting any discontent in the jail,
as stated on a former occasion, which he thought it
but justice to state to the memory of an eminent
scholar. The allegations, he understood, of the pro-1
ceedings on the trial of Mr. White were to come be-
fore the House of Lords, which, at the present pe-'
riod, would prevent him from making any motion on
the subject. The petition presented stated some prac-
tices to prevail, which, if true, required correction.—
In the first placi, it was alledged that a person in
the Crown Office had the power to pass over any.
name in a Special Jury that he thought fit, and might
go on until he selected such persons as he considered
the most 'likely to find for the Crown. If such
were the fact, certainly no such practice ought to
prevail.—An6ther practice was, that the Jury that
found for the Crown received two guineas per man ;
whereas if they found against the Crown, they recei-
ved but one each.---It was also said, in the case where
a Juryman fOund for the subject, he never was sum-
moned again, by which means he lost the remunera-
tion given to Jurymen, which to some he feared was
au object. lie thought it also a very great vie!'

aim that persons should be sent to a distant place or
confinement, away from business and friends. lie
would say no more at present, but merely move that
the petition be laid on the table.
Mr. CALCRAFT recapitulated what lie rated.
on a former night with respect to the accommodation
of Mr. White—he had a comfortable room, and lit.,
wife slept with him whenever he thought proper, and
he had, besides, access to the yard to take the air.
His present petition was modified, but, as a Mavis-
; trate for Dorchester, he thought proper to state what
he had done, as he, with his brother Magistri t ney;i-
wished to see a prisoner :.ent from London to that jail,
which was a b,-rde a to the county.
Mr. WINDHAM said, he listened with great at-
tention to the allegations contained in the peti..irm,
and did not see that there was any ground of c
plaint for improper severity. The petitioner coni.
pained of what every person knew to be a fact, tha.-
11-r:hester jail was a place in which persons were
confined. He said nothing but that the place
which he had to walk was a round yard ; but if
hid an objection to walk in a circular space,
might square it if he thought necessary. He a!,
compla:ned truly, that he was confined with deho!,
and smugglers. He could not but admire the lofty
and contumelious manner in which he spoke of his
fellow-prisoners, many of whom were, by too macs
confidence in others, brought to ruin and distress,
without any offence of their own. He was, inked,
very much surprised to hear the aristocratical refiec.
tion.s of Mr. White, who he understood was a yet),
great teacher of the principles of liberty and evality.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL observed, Oh,:-
the person from whom his Honourable Prised
rcoeived his information must have known that :lit
practice had long ceased of paying a Juryman two
guineas if he found for the Crown, and only one gui-
nea if he found for the subject.- Such a practice, did
formerly exist ; but not within his memory ; lie ther,•_
fore was surprised that he should have thrown out
any such reflections, without he knew that such
abuses did certainly exist, And which ought, if they
did exist, to be corrected, He denied that furors
who found against the Crown were afterwards so to: out
of the list, and he was convinced that any officer Mr/
was guilty of such a transaction 'mould be dismissed
by the Judge who had the controul over him as ea
Officer of the Crown.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT observed, that this
wits sane of the most important cases that had ever
come before the House. The Attorney General hal
admitted that the practice of giving two guineas to
the Jurors, when they found for the Crowe, once es;
is:ed, and had only lately been left of; but he was
sorry that he had not adverted to the other practices
which the Honourable Gentleman opposite had
ted. He was starjaised that he had passed over the
great question as to the right of the Executive to
transport its subjects to any part of its dominions at
its own discretion. He should have expected that he
should not Love passed over this. He thought in-
deed that this point had been settled at !lie -Revolu-
tion, and he regretted that he had heard no opinica
on the subject from him. He had also passeJ over
another most important point—the allegation—that.
Special Juries were struck at the discretion of the
Crown Office. The ex alcio,informations of the At.
torney General he considered as no less clang-error.
to the liberty of the subject than the giving two gui-
neas instead aone to those Jurors who found for the
Crown. Here, in the case of a libel, for instance.
We found the Crown appointing accuser, judge, any
Jury ! Into • the great constitutional point or send,
ing subjects to distant jails, he would not now enter,
as it was to be discussed in another place ; but he
could not help adverting to the extreme hardship of
this practice, which totally altered the sentence of the
law. He agreed that an imprisonment of three years
was almost an unprecedented thing of late. The
Honourable Baronet then remarked with regard to
what had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentle-
man below (Mr. Windham), that Mr. White had
onlybeen convicted of a misdemeanour, which, though
certainly a crime, had always been distinguished from
felony. Mr. White, therefore, might have reason to
' think that he ought to be less strictly confined than
some others. There was another consideration which
had entirely escaped the Right Honourable Gentle.
man, and that was, that the other prisoners belonged
to the County, and in that respect were less hardly
dealt by than Mr. White. The Honourable Baro-
net next observed, that it would be in the power of
the Crown to ruin any particular County, by send-
ing thither all the prisoners of the nation. He would
venture to say, that this was not law, and lie was
glad that the subject had been brought forward by a
Gentleman, who he was sure would do it justice.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL observed, that
it was not the Executive Government, but the Judges
w' the Court of King's reach that passed sentence,
and the reason why he did not enter more at length
into the subject was, because it was to be brotr,;ltt
forward on a future occasion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob-
served, that the arguments of the Hon. Baronet were
founded on misconception, and before allegations
were made or the House interfered, it ought to have
been first shewn that the Petitioner was denied redress
in the Courts of Law. The Petition was then ordered
to be laid on the table.

Mr. WHITBREAD said that the Attorney Ge-
neral had misrepresented him. He had stated that
the practice of giving two guineas to Jurors who gave
a verdict for the Crown, either existed at present or
had only been lately discontinued. This was his in-
formation, and it appeared to be correct, for the prac-
tice had existed ; and the LeaKned Gentleman had ad-
mitted that it was a gross abuse. He did not say
that Jurors who gave verdicts against the Crown had
been struck off the list ; he had only said that it S 9
happened that they wero.never summoned again :
the Learned Gentleman upon enquiry might find
that statement to be correct.
Mr. MARRYATT said, that he had given ver-
dicts against the Crown, but that he had been con-
stantly summoned.
Mr. ASHLEY COOPER was sorry to hurt the
feelings of the relations of Mr. GilbertWakefi.2ld, but
in justice to the Magistrates of Lorset he must say,
that he had abused the indulgence which he had nici;
with in the manner stated. He then read a letter
from one of the Magistrates confirming this staff •ment,
and also stated that Mr. Wlite had been asked before
the copunencemeat pf the St ssion whether he kid an)

edistant
movepla cteh oa ft
and friends. lie
trnkih present, be
s 8e
nbin eets t o a
but merely
recapitulated what lie rated.
respect to the accommodation
a comfortable room, and his
enever he thought proper, and
to the yard to take the air.
is modified, but, as a Mavis-
thought proper to state what
a his brother Magistri t e never-
. :.entfrom London to that jail,
the county.
.aid, he listened with great at_
ns contained in the petieon,
here was any ground c f car,.
verity. The petitioner cone
person knew to be a fact, Oa.-
place in which persons were
)thing but that the place .e,
was a round yard ; but if b
walk in a circular space, la-
thought necessary. He a!,
: he was confined with debaa,
auld not but admire the lofty
nor in which he spoke of his 1
of whom were, by too muet • .
brought to ruin and distress,
theirhear own.the aristocratical li enyuoarlNvanvaiidlst(iiiii',:ri,liareat
ilfic:tett:[(,l_,l,....l..'
ho he understood was a very
)ir itoicmimp luehss
it
sohf
alivi
lb;
nrkot
GENERAL observed, t!ea
:ed of paying a Juryman two
the Crown, and only one aui-
subject.- Such a practicc,`did
t within his memory ; lie thee..
he should have thrown out
without he knew that such
:ist, And which ought, if they
ed, He denied that furors
rown were afterwards so :ice out
convinced that any officer wha
ransaction would be dismissed
the controul over him as art 1
RDETT observed, that tine
iportant cases that had ever 1
..!. The Attorney General h 4 1
aice of giving two guineas to 1
found for the Crowe, once es; 1
.tely been left off ; but he was 1
tdverted to the other practices 1
Gentleman opposite bad see. e
d that he had passed over the /
le right of the Executive to .
) any part of its dominions at e
e should have expected that he
I over this. He thought in. 1
1 been settled at alie Revolu- 1
that he had heard no opinica 1
n. He had also passeJ over •
nt point—the allegation—that, 1
l'uck at the discretion of the 1
: 4icio,informations of the At. t
rsidered as no less dangernu; i
bject than the giving two gui. i
hose Jurors who found for the
case of a libel, for instance. 1
ppointing accuser, judge, any 1
t constitutional point or send,
jails, he would not now (alter, 1
sed in another place ; but he
ag to the extreme hardship of I
tally altered the sentence of the i
an imprisonment of three yea;s
tedented thing of late. The - c
hen remarked with regard to t
he Right Honourable Ganda. t
dhain), that Mr. White had 1
i misdemeanour, which, though a
always been distinguished from a
rerefore, might have reason to (
be less strictly confined than I
as another consideration which 1
le Right Honourable Gentle. s
a the other prisoners belonged I
that respect were less hardly 1
'hite. The Honourable Baro- i
t it would be in the power of 1
y particular County, by send- i
niers of the nation. He would c
tis was not law, and lie was t
lad been brought forward by a X
AS sure would do it justice. t
7-GENERAL observed, that a
re Government, but the Judges e
's reach that passed sentence,
li
: did not enter more at length
tecause it was to be brought c
:asion.
DR of the EXCHEQUER oh- t
tents of the Hon. Baronet were s
ption, and before allegations t
ise interfered, it ought to have 1
re Petitioner was denied redress
The Petition was then ordered t
t
D said that the Attorney Ge- r
ed him. He had stated that 4
two guineas to Jurors who gave
n, either existed at present or
iscontinued. This was his in- i
ared to be correct, for the prac- i.
re Learned Gentleman had ad-
vgerrdoiscst abuse.
verdicts against
t
; he had only said that it 0 I
roarever summoned again : and e
1
Cdirdol notvn i sa'fi;ld i
tweet.. iliie
tan upon enquiry might and
' said, that he had given vcr-
,n, but that he had been con- t
1
QPER was sorry to hurt the 1
s of Mr. Gilbert Wakefield, but I
strates of Lorset he must say, I
indulgence which he had met; I
ated. He then read a letter %
rates confirming this star •ment, t
r. White had been asked before 1
the St ssion whether he h,Lci any t

rtason to complain to which he had replied-1' None
whatever."
sir FRANCIS BURDETT, in explanation, said,
that he had not spoken under a raise He
knew that the sending the individual to re..
comtituted part of die sentence of the Court; but
the Government having the power of appointing Ac.
tower, Judge, and Jury, any accused person was, in
efect, placed at its discretion. These sentences were
nap• indeed, unprecedented, but they were new since
Resolution.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM affirmed, that the most
tespectable Freeholders were alvrais summoned for
June,. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table.
MR. HART'S PETITION.
Mr. WHITBREAD presented a petition front
gr. John Hart, the Prflter of The Independent Whig.
!I stated a number of grievances, and denied the le-
alitv of the course of proceedings under which he,
fbeioi only the Printer of the Paper), suffered,
Ordered to lie on the table.

REVERMONAIT GiANTS.

Lord PORCHESTER, in pursuance of his notice,
to submit to the House a Motion on the above
subject.
He observed, that a Bill had passed unani-
mously through that House last Session, which had
been rejected by the Lords, who had also previously
rejected another Bill. This
to the measure called loudly foerrscevering opposition
consideration. He
(Iced, that the Journals of the House of Peers had
been searched to ascertain the grounds of that opposi-
these had been at length discovered, and they
/mild be found to bear no inconsiderable rank among
the follies of Princes. There was however one inns-
vim person, who stood nearest to the Throne, and
was dear to the hopes of the nation, who had not
joined in that opposition. He was happy to see a full
attendance of his Majesty's Ministers, and hoped they
would not, on the present occasion, attend in the
e'r.2.racters they had erly done, viz. that of mutes!
The Noble Lord opposite, be trusted, would feel
riious to afford that information which he k cora-
p:er: to give from the chronicles of Ireland, and
r'xild furnish the House with a list of the offices in-
reversion (he had almost said in resurrection !) which
had lateiy been multiplied to a most extraordinary
degree. He had been told, and perhaps it would be.
ere argument urged by Gentlemen on the opposite
side, that the present was an inconvenient time; but
whet they had a duty to perform, no time could be
too early, and every delay must be improper. They
had been told that. the present was not the proper
time to press this measure ; that they must proceed
ith delicacy with respect to the privileges of the
other House, and endeavour to get its members into
a rb•c,od humour; they would then be more likely to
btain the object. Was it so (said his Lordship) that
M:gna Charta of the Bill of Rights were obtained ?'
The public would feel anxious to hear the sentiments
of Ministers; let them come down, and weak as the
Noble Lord's arms were, they would see him buck:e
on Lis armour and struggle for victory.. They were
to be delicate of the privileges of the Lords, and
not consider the sacrifice they were making of their
own ! He wished for the adoption- of the Bill, but
not partially as had been hitherto done, which went
merely to extract all the pith and marrow from the
measure. It Places in Reversion were to be granted
Is the rewards only of public service, perhaps the
tbjection to those grants would not be so strong !
But that could not be the case, as they were frequently
made to children ! And in consequence, when me-
itNious servants of the public were to be rewarded,
Majesty was obliged to come to that House, and
rife the reward out of the pockets of his subjects !
The Noble Lord concluded an eloquent and animated
speech, by moving for leave to bring in a Bill for per-
petually preventing the grant of Offices in Reversion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
nuld not attach that great weight to this Bill which
the Noble Lord had endeavoured to impress upon
'he House ; and Which he had, in the course of an
'aborate speech, magnified into such great import-
:v. He did not conceive that the measure was
ip reat infringement upon the prerogative of the
n, or any important accession of power to the
ple ; and as a measure of economy, he could not
any benefit which could arise from it upon that
He thought the present measure unnecessary,
souse an Act of Parliament was in existence, and
..zw acted under; and no inconvenience could pos-
,:aly :trrise to the public from not passing the present
,asure ; because, by the said Act,
,grants of offices
;eversion were prohibited until six weeks after the
rcuanc:.cement of the next Sessions. Besides all
`,is, there was a notice of a motion given by an Ho-
!nimble and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Henry Mar-
v:) Upon the Third Report of the Finance Corn-
gee, on the subject of Places, which stood for
ly in the next week, and his wish was to postpone
the discussion of the present question until that should
b disposed of. Under these circumstances he.should
tipose the motion.

scole.

Mr. BAN KES, however, he might disapprove of
L'e time of bringing forward this measure, yet, con-
:ent with the part he had personally taken upon
1-is subject on a former occasion, he felt it his duty
t vote for the present measure.
Lord HENRY PETTY thought the opinion of
Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the
L‘c}:cquer) rather an extraordinary one : he seemed
tteat this important question as a subordinate
-..!sure, objected to the time at which it was brought
.raid, and said something might arise in the
se of a few days which might alter the opinion
!!.0 House upon the subject. He could not see
.4. this could be any reason for delaying a proceed.
the House unanimously adopted and ap-
i:tt of no later than the last Session of Parlia-
Th.m. But any opinion which might hereafter be
rind could not militate against that opinion al-
-14 adopted, and which came recommended by
.rrY species of policy and expediency. He decidedly
~o),,,ted the motion.

1 Le question was about to be put, when
'lr. TIERNEY could not forbear from observing,
!he same measure was now treated with contempt,
; !!, in the last Session, had been passed mull-
u-ly. One Right Hon. Gentleman alone delivered
,:aiments on the measure, who pretended not to
ntriendly to it, but to object to it only on the
'i time, while others opposed it in silence. He
opinion, not only that the measure was in
'4?) but that it was in strict parliamentary time.—
Lords opposed the Bill on the broad ground that
Ll,croached on the prerogative of the Crown. 4

Member of the Administration (the Lord Chancellor)
had been bold enough to say, that the fact of the
Commons passing a Resolution, recommending to his
Majesty not to grant Offices in Reversion, would be
a reason with him fot granting such Reversions. The
Commons were of a contrary opinion; and, if the Lords
should be of the mind formerly expressed by them, was
it not proper that the measure should come back to the
Commons in sufficient time to enable them to delibe-
rate how they should act ? He agreed that if expecta-
tions were formed of a saving from this measure pro-
portioned to the great scale of the public expendi-
ture, they would be disappointed. But, if ever
there as a moment for shewing the disposition for
economy the present was the moment. Yet the Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Perceval) would propose no-
thin& Every burthen of this kind was thrown on
the House. Did the Right Honourable Gentleman
call this doing his duty ? The Committee had been
appointed, re-appointed, and re-modelled, and yet the
Report, after it was laid on the table, would have been
allowed to remain there a dead letter but for the ex-
ertions of his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr.
H. Martin). Did thc Right Honourable Gentleman
(Mr. Perceval) think this was the way to meet the
public temper? He agreed that little good as to the
reduction of taxes could be occasioned by this measure;
but, at the same time, Ministers should shew an in-
clination to reduce the influence of the Crown, and
to produce economy where it could be produced.—
From the Honourable Ministers opposite he expected
nothing. One of them did net think the measure
worth opposing, and the other two observed a strict
silence. From the House, however, he had better
expectations. He hoped they would recollect that
during the last Session they were unanimous, and
would- by their vote of that night shew that they were
willing to do 'something to gratify the wishes of the
_

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER in
explanation said, that the greater part of the 4180,600
per annum was expended in stamps for the necessary
proceedings, and the increased quantity of business.
Mr. WHITBREAD also deprecated the tacitur-
nity of Ministers upon such an occasion, and the op-
position of the only one who had delivered his senti-
ments from that side of the' House. He thought it
was necessary for the House to assert itsown dignity,
and send up another Bill to the House of Lords. He
had heard it said of the Lord Chancellor, that when
the former Bill went up, he was heard to say, that-
the moment the Bill was rejected, he should advise
his Majesty to grant the first place he could in rever-
sion. He concluded by declaring his warm appro-
bation of the Bill.

Mr. CANNING saw sufficient to oppose the pre.
sent measure when he looked to the Bill of last Ses-
sion now in operation and producing the very effect
which its author intended. If he were to state his
opinion he must say it preponderated in favour of
Reversions • but the opinion of the House and out of
the House being so strongly against them, he had al-
lowed that opinion to turn the balance in his mind.
If there was a difference of opinion in the two Houses
it would be productive of great inconvenience, and
therefore he this night voted for the Act of Suspen-
sion of last Session rather than for a measure which
would have the effect of cutting it up by the roots.
As to the story of the Lord Chancellor having said
that he would advise his Majesty to grant a Rever-
sion notwithstanding the Resolution of the House, he
(Mr. Canning) had never heard of it before, and did
not believe it.

Mr. PONSONBY thought it was the most extra-
ordinary method he ever heard of obstructing an Act
of Parliament, by giving to it a perpetual operation!
He by no means agreed with those who thought the
measure of but little imports on the contrary, he
thought it was a considerable reduction of the Public
expence, and reduced the improper influence of his
Majesty's Ministers, by taking from them that patro-
nage which they otherwise had, and of the greatest
importance to the interest.of the country.
Mr. DAVIES GIDDY supported the motion.
After some explanation from Mr. BANKS, Mr.
PONIONBY, and the CRANCELLONS of the EXCHEQUER,
Lord Poacnesvms replied ; and the question being
loudly called for, the House divided—For Lord Por
cheater's Motion, Ayes 106--Against it, Noes 121
—Majority against the Bill 15.

rsaggt t°
whatever.
Sir FR,.
that he °
knew that
eon,titute
the Cover
cuser, Jud
eject, pla
not, indee
the Re:ol
Sir JAI
etspectabl
juries. 1
Mr. NV]
gr. John
Dstated
being
of I
bong or
ordered 0
Lord P
rose to sul
subject.
mously th
been rejec
rejected a
to the me,
stated, the
been searcl
64: thes
would be I
the follies
rious pert
was dear I
joined in t
attendance
would no;
exacters
The Nob
=ions to
Fteat to
would furl
reversion
had lately
degree. I
cue argun
side, that
whea they
too early,
had been t
tire to pr
with delic
other Hou
a c;ocl hue
cbtain the
M:gna CI
The public
of Minister
Noble LOT
• on arn]
to be delic
not consic
own !
not partial
merely to
measure.
as the rew
abjection 0
But trig ci
made to ci
itolious se
:.•lajest]
take the re
The Noble
speech, by
petually pr
The CF
• muld not a
le Noble
:he House
elaborate s
ante. He
any great i
Crown, or
V'Ple as
me any bet
Ht
!;cause an
acted
t'aly arrise
L.ASUre ;
ley ersiot
ten:me:lcm
tis, there
mumble ai
tra) upon
t..ttee, on
early in the
the discussi
disposed
cppose the
Mr. BA
fte time of
!.:eta wit
tlis subject
t vote for
Lord H:
t.; Right
t:'cl;etter
ti eat t
sure,
: raid,
:se of
•!!.0 Ho
...v this ci
I:'r.d of
fiat. Bu
! rind co
aduj
tpeci
1 Le gnu
the sat
i!, in
t:Ay. C
T.frienc
••: tii
upi
2.?, but ;
/J.,rd!
encroach