Star.
London, England, 1809-02-28 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

A new Member took the oaths and his seat.
Colonel BASTARD brought in a Bill to explain and amend the
Laws respecting Bastardy, as far as the same relates to the indem-
nity of Parishes. The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered
to be read a second time to-morrow.
COUNTY OF WEXFORD.
Lord PERCY, Chairman of the Committee appointed to try
the merits of the Wexford Election, reported at the bar, that it
appeared to the Committee that Abel Ram,Esq. had not been duly
elected, and also that Wm. Congreve Alcock, Esq. had been duly
elected; and also that it appeared to the Committee, that the pe •
titions, as far as they related to tho election of Abel Ram, Esq.
were frivolous and vexatious, and that the petition relating to the
election of W. C. Alcock, Esq. did not appear to the Committee
to be either frivolous or vexatious.
Lord PERCY then delivered in the Report.
M r. Irvine, from the Office of the Inspector General of Imports
' and E::ports, presented at the bar certain Accounts relating to the
Quantity of Cotton-wool and Flax-seed imported into Ireland for
the last year. They werecordered to Ile on the table.
TIIE DUKE OF YORK.
Lord FOLKSTONE gave notice that he would t.-morrow
move, that the House be called over on Wednesday, the Bth day
of March.

BANKRUPT LAWS.
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY give notice that he would, on Wed-
nesday next, move for leave to bring in a Bill to explain and
amend certain parts of the Bankrupt Laws.
• NAVAL REVISION.
Mr. ROBERT WARD brought up the 9d, sth, 6th, 7th, sth,
9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th Reports of the Commissioaen of
Naval Revision. He stated, that the Ist, 2d, and 4th had already
been delivered in. They were ordered to lie on the table.
Sir CHARLES POLE objected to the printing of these papers
so soon, particularly cm the very day on which they had been
brought up, and when the Naval Estimates were to be submitted
to the consideration of the House.
Mr. ROBERT WARD apprised the Hon. Baronet thit no
motion had been made for printing the papers.
The Irish Bank Note Bill went through a Committee, and the
Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
Mr. ASHLEY COOPER deferred the consideration of the
Ordnance Estimates till Friday
The Hopse having gone into a Committee of Supply, and or-
dered that the further Miscellaneous Estimates tor Ireland, and
those for the Army and the Naval Estimates, be referred to the
same, the following Grants, on the motion of Mr. FOSTER,
were then vot,d:
• For the Orphanage Society in Dublin, to be applied to the use
of the Protestant Charter Schools in iraand, for the year ending
the sth of Janury 1810, £26,305.
A short conversation took place on the increase of this Grant,
between sirs Julia Newport, Arthur Wellesley, and Mr. Foster,
who jus shed the necessity •-f the increase, on the ground of the
. great increase in the price of provisions.
Sir JOHN NLWPORT gave notice, that be would on Thurs-
day move for the production of the Reports relative to the Boar dl
of f.ducation in Ireland, and of the State of the Protestant Scamo's.
Fc.r the Irish Linen Manufactory for the same period 5t21,600.
For the Irish Lotteries for the same period .E:4983.
lor the Printing and the Stationary for the Office of the Chief
Secretary in Ircland, and his Deputy, as also far one yeas's salary,
for the Clerks in same, for the same period, £21,900.
The above bums were voeid to be of Irish currency.
RTMAINING ARMY ESTIMATES.
The SECRETARY at WAR said, that as upon
that day week the establishment for the Army had
betm voted, he had now only to move for the remain-
ing Estimates which had upon that day been post-
poned. There would be fctlnd some increase in some
few Estimates, owing to the increase of our effective
force within the year ; most however of the Estimates
would be found to be nearly the same as those of the
last year. The first• article in which any material
difference had occurred, was in that of the Estimates
for the Staff and Garrison. The Staff abroad had
been necessarily increased, -particularly in Spain and
Portugal. There had been before that 10,0001. al-
lowed for the Staff abroad, on the score of contingen-
cies, but this sum had not been found to be adequate.
The next article of increase was that of the Estimates
for the full pay of the Supernumerary Officers ; and
there would be also found in the Estimates of the
public department, an increase of 60,0001., but as a
balance against this, the public Fees in the Pay-
Cfl;cc; anti in some measure in the War Office, had
been done away. Besides, he wished the Committee
to observe that much of what was hitherto rated
under the head of contingencks, was now reduced to
d stinct and specified estimates, so that in fact there
pia; no increase of expence, it was merely nominal
and only an increase of estimate ; there would be
found too some small inads,se as to the charge of the
half-Pay Fund, and also in the estimate for the Out-
Fensioners ; the increase on account of the expenceb
of the Local Militia could be obviously accounted for;
that description of force far exceeded in expence the
Volobt, establishment, the increase would amount
to 1,‘20:40001. ; there was a rough estimate of the
cloathing for the Local Militia of 400,0001. but this
sum would go to provide for the four succeeding
years. There would be also a slight increase in the
estimates for the Royal Military College and Military
Asylum. The rest of the Estimates would be found
to be the same as last year.
Mr. HENRY MARTIN said, that when the ex-
cess of the estimates for the current year over those
Of the past amounted to 1,500,0001. that House had
some right to demand every explanation as to the
cause and circumstances of the increase. The excess
in the estimates for the public departments amoun-
ted to 60,0001. There was charged for the Exche-
quer tees 96,6011. when the fees themselves amoun-
ted only to 11,6001. For the office of the Paymasters •
General the estimate was 54,7711. exceeding the
• same Of last year by 20,0001. This increase had been
accounted for by the addition to the. number of De-
puty Paymasters, but were not many of these.places
sinecures ? The allowance for the -expences of the
office of the Secretary at War, his Deputies, Clerks,
and Assistants, was this year 54,8481. ; here the ex-
cess over that of the last. year amounted to 27,8481.

r t•

There had been also an excess , in the estimate for the
foreign corps. There had been also introduced new
heads of estimates that had never been mentioned be-
fore. There were under these heads miscellaneous
charges to the amount of 70,8001.. of this 54,0001
was under new heads. %For the foreign depot there
had been a charge of 50001. which was new. There
had been also a new estimate, under the head of fo-
reign invalids, which amounted to 48301. He wished
to have those additional charges accounted for.
The SECRETARY at WAR said, that with re-
spect to the public department, the increase was
merely nominal, the fees having been allotted to the
expenditure of the War Office. There had been an
addition of one or two Clerks, and the salaries of the
junior clerks were to go on progressively, in a certain
proportion. With respect to the foreign corps, much
of its expences were hitherto charged under the head
of Contingencies, but now the same expellees were
stated tinder distinct intimates, so that the increase
here was nominal. • lathe same way other items,
which had been under the head of the Extraordi-
naries, were now reduced to estimate. This was the
cause of the new heads in the estimates of the present
year.
Mr. C. LONG confirmed this statement, and said,
that it was in most instances-an increase of estimate,
and not an increase of expence. There was an addi-
tion of 11,6001. on Exchequer fees, but of those there
had been a deficiency of 58001. With respect to the
Deputy Pay Masters abroad, those were formerly pro-
vided for, under the head of the contingencies, to the
amount of 15,0001. but they were now given in esti-
mate. He did not know of one Deputy Paymaster's
place which was a sinecure, but that of Gibraltar,
which had been so for time immemorial. He had
never appointed any person to that situatidn, who
had not been required to do the duties of it :—there
was a necessary addition to the expences under this
head, in consequence of the Deputy Paymasters who
were sent out with Sir John Moore and General
Spencer, and at Madeira. . •
Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON did not see
how the mode of proceeding with respect to the fees,
and the application of them to the expences of the
Pay-office, or War-office, could bring before the pub-
lic the exact estimate.
General FITZPATRICK wished to know, whe-
ther it was intended to abolish the private fees ?
The SECRETARY at WAR apprehended„ that
that would be productive of inconvenience; but that
however the subject would be taken into due consi;
deration.
Lord TEMPLE bore evidence to the accuracy of
Mr. Long's statement.
Mr. WILLIAMS WYNNE wished to know whe-
ther it was the intention of Government to relieve
the parishes from the unjustifiable burdens imposed
upon them by the system of volunteering into the
Local Militia ? He wished also to know, whether
any allowance would be made to the smaller card
volunteers, as otherwise, he feared, that 9iis valuable
force would be considerably diminished to the course
of the present year? He wished also to put the June and
August corps on a similar footing with other corps.
Ihe SECRETARY at WAR observed, that the
points alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman were
already under consideration, and would be duly at-
tended to. •
Mr. H. MARTIN said, that there were £40,000
for telegraphic buildings in Ireland in the estimates.
The state of the atmosphere in Ireland was so unfa-
vourable, that some explanation ought to be given
when such a sum was required.
Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY observed, that
an attempt had been made to convey intelligence by
telegraph through Galway and Athlone to Dublin,
instead of the former communication by the circui-
tous line of the coast ; and though this might be mere
expensive at first, it would ultimately be cheaper.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD said, that the Royal
Malta Regiment was said, oh one occasion, to have
thrown down its arms. It was important this should
be contradicted, if not true ; .-nd if it was true, the
expence ought to constitute no part of the recruiting
fund of this country.
Mr. WILI3ERFORCE adverted to the state of
regiments as to Chaplains. He had a sort of feeling
at first with respect to them, which rendered him
happy to get rid of them. But he did not at the
same time see the consequences ; for it appeared that
there were thousands who went on dangerous service
without a clergyman to attend them. He wished
that the use of the Chaplain service could be pre-
served without the abuses. He thought that the black
regiments in the West Indies ought liken ise, as hu-
man beings, to have some attention paid them in this

respect.
The SECRETARY at WAR said, there had
been improvements in the system, and that more
were in contemplation, and by these improvements
the West-India Regiments would profit. As to the
Royal Regiment of Malta, he had heard the reports
mentioned, but he heard th,..n contradicted, and he
could really, of his own knoWledge, say nothing pre-
cise on the subject.
Mr. WILLIAM SMITH called another subject
to the attention of the Committee. When we under-
took the defence of an island such as Sicily, it was to
' be expected that its own Government should adopt
the proper means for that purpose as.far as possible.
There were reports that the Neapolitan Government
was so oppressive, that the Sicilians could scarcely be
friendly to it. The lamented Sir John Moore, when
he was going to Sicily, expressed some doubts on the
subject, and certainly our Government -ought, in the
actual situation of the case, to give some hints that
would be attended to. He would make no motion;
and only mentioned the subject that the people might
know that the circumstance had not escaped the at-
tention of their Representatives.
The following sums were then voted :
Public departments - -
Half Pay and Military Allowances -
In Pensioners of Chelsea and Kilmainham
• Hospitals -
.- 67,143 14 11
Out-Pensioners of ditto - - 425,269 1 9
Widows Pensions - - 49,487 11 8
Volunteer Corps - - 1,000,820 0 6
Local Militia - - 1,219,803 9 0
Foreign Corps - - 933,654 6 10
Royal Military College - - 16,975 17 4
Royal Military Asylum - - - 23,350 9 2
Allowance to Retired and Officiating Chaplains 24,972 12 11
Medicines and Hospital Expences • - 115,024 8 4
Compassionate List • - . 14,300 0 4
Barrack Department (Ireland) - 479,875 16 11
, Commissariat Department (Ireland) - 235,508 14 2

£257,711 13 3
23;568 5 1

Sir'CHARLES POLE observed, that before pro-
ceeding to the Navy Estimates, certain Naval reports,
under which the estimates had been considerably aug-
mented, ought to be before the House, and this was
the more necessary as some of the Resolutions were
founded on these Reports. The Honourable Baronet
also observed, that in the new appointments which
had taken place in consequence of these Reports,
more attention had been paid to influence and patro-
nage, than to the fitness of the persons to execute
the duties. As an instance of deficiency in the Pay
Department, he mentioned the case of the crew of the
1• Standard, which had irregularly assailed the •Admi-

ralty.
Mr. WARD said, that the increase in the Esti,.
mates was £1,500,000, and that out of that the sum
of £1,200,000 was under the head of Transports, and
had nothing to do with the Reports in question. He
had no objection, however, to postpone the Estimates
till Friday to give time to the House to examine the
Reports. •
Mr. WELLESLEY POLE expressed himself to
the same effect, and ascribed the blame of not hav-
ing some of the Reports before the House already;
to himself. The reason was, that he had thought it
proper to wait till the whole could be laid before the
}louse at once.
Mr. WHITBREAD thought that a further delay
ought to be allowed, and also said, that it would
have been more useful to have laid the Reports on
i the table one by one, as they would be more likely to
be examined than if they came in a mass.
Mr. WELLESLEY POLE explained that part
of the observations of the late Speaker which referred
to the conduct of the crew of the Standard. The ship
which the Right Hon. Admiral had alluded to, was
the Standard, which had returned from India, after
several years absence. The circumstance attending
that ship and her crew, he 'could easily explain :
There is a regulation, that when ships come from
abroad, after a long service, part of the pay is ad-
vanced to the ship's company immediately upon their
arrival, if a favourable report be made of them by
their Captain, and they are allowed to go ashore to
visit the friends. The Standard having been fa-
vourably reported, the Admiralty made an advance
to the men, but it so happened that they did not
come exactly under those rules which entitled them
at the same time to leave of absent.. The crew, not
understanding how this happened, came up to Lon-
don in a body, and most respectfully stated their case
to the Lords of the Admiralty, who paid the utmost
attention to their statement, but, while doing them
justice, they were determined not to forego their
duty. They thought it a case of hardship, and they
determined to enlarge their rule : They ordered them
to return' to their ship, and report themselves to.
their Captain. This was done without giving them
any promise ; but the Admiralty soon afterwards
ordered them to have leave of absence (besides
having their pay), in °rag to visit their friends.—
This was the mutinous abd disorderly conduct to
which an allusion lr-d been made. He would leave
to the House to judge of the facts. For his part, be
valued too highly the character of a British seaman
to charge him, upon light grounds,.with such a
serious tor-e Lure of his glory and credit. With re-
spect to the persons appointed to the augmented
Commissioners of the Navy, he could say, that, with-
out any reference to persons, they were appointed by
the present Lord of the Admiralty solely on their
merits, without the least reference to their connec-
tions, or even their names. The next charge or the
Honourable Baronet referred to the Victualling
Board. He had first to remark upon the totalinCoso-
petency of that Board, as it originally stood, to-fulfil
its duties. From their own accounts, it was apparent,
that whether in excess or whether in deficiency, it
was impossible to ascertain either. Some had their
accounts to excess more than 4000 casks, others less
by a similar amount ; but still the public expen-
diture had under such management increased tenfold.
Under such circumstances he was the most foremost
to propose to Lord Mulgrave the necessity of an im-
mediate and radical reform. It was also his opinion
that the persons under whom this system had grown,
were by no means the persons by whom it wav to be
corrected. The only difficulty was in the way of fill-
ing them up ; and he had to assure the House, that,
with the exception of Colonel Walsh, the persons
appointed to the two Boards were selected for their
own intrinsic merits, and were not personally
known to Lord Mulgrave. With respect to Colonel
Walsh, his qualifications from long service were such
that he could not allow the justice of the observation,
that because he was the Brother-in-law of Lord Mul-
-1 grave, he had not a justifiable claim to a situation
which from talents he was fully qualified to fulfil.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
supported the observations of the last Speaker, and
denied the doctrine, that when equal merits demand-
ed acknowledgements, public men were not justified
in supporting their own immediate friends.
Mr. WHITBREAD conceived that only a hard
case arose out of the hard and indeed uncalled-for
comments of the Right-Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
W. Pole). It appeared to him there was no necessity
for such a vigorous attack, as the Right Honourable
Gentleman was running before the wind. He was
most ready to allow that if the persons appointed came
within the recommendation of the Commissioners of
Naval Revision, there was no force in the objection
that one of the persons so appointed was a near rela-
tive of the First Lord of the Admiralty. That Com-
mission had recommended men of professional know-
ledge and of uninterrupted industry. It was there-
fore a quekion which on a future opportunity would
be argued, whether the persons selected by the present
Board came within their definition.
Sir C. POLE explained.
Mr. FULLER observed, that the Hon. Gentleman
over the way (Mr. Whitbread) had spoken of the
warmth of the Hon. Gentleman below him (Mr, W.
Pole,) and had said that he wrought himself into a
foam on the present occasion. It was quite natural
for the Hon. Member (Mr. Whitbread) to use such',
afro* expression.—(Loud laughter.)—The vindica-
tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. W. Pole)
had given him great pleasure ; and he hoped that nct
only he, but all his family, would be in office, that
the country might enjoy their services.—Hear! Hear!
Mr. WARD accused the Honourable_ Baronet
(Pole,' of an attempt to raise unjustifiable suspicion.
Spargere inter vn*ant veers ambigias.
Mr. HENRY MARTIN stated, that an unfavour-