Star.
London, England, 1809-03-25 00:00:00

FERROL.

Lord AUCKLAND, previous to proceeding to
the Order of the Day, wished to call the attention of
the House to some circumstances connected with
the Spanish question, upon which he thought
some information ought to be given, IT alluded to
Ferrol, of which place, together with the squadron
in the port, and a large quantity of artillery, the ene-
my
had obtained possession, and had thus acquired
A part of the Spanish u*v4 mous, wa positio4 w 41.;

they were most dangerous to theinterest of the coun-
try. And this, notwithstanding we had a number
of diplomatic and military agents in Spain, notwith.
standing we were communicating with the Spani,i,
Juntas for eight months, and had an army in Gallicfor two months. It was essential that the Hotrce
should know what steps had been taken, with the
view of removing the ships at Ferrol, from the grasp
of the enemy, into which they had now unfortunately
fallen. He should therefore move for Copies or Fa_
tracts of all Communications between the Spanish
Government and the British agents, or Military 0X,..
cers in Spain, respecting the port of Ferrol.
Lord MULGRAVE said it would be necessary
toa taketim eto consider the motion, in order to have
n opportunity
of looking into the papers. He had,
however, no objection to state that an application
was made to the Junta by Admiral commanding
off Corunna, urging the darter Of the enemy's ob.
taining possession of Ferrol ; the necessity cf reinov.
ing the fleet, and offering every assistance for that
purpose. The answer received wag, that Ferrol wa:
In no danger, that it could defend itself against tht
attacks of the enemy, and that the ships were essen.
tally necessary to its defence. He put it, therefore,
tu) their Lordships, whether force or violence ought
to have been resorted to ? Probably the Noble Lord
might think it necessary, after hearing this statement,
to take further time to consider of hit motion.
The Duke of NORFOLK had heard, with con.
siderable alarm, the statement of the Noble Lord.
The ships had been considered as essential to the de.
fence of the place ; and yet Ferrol had surrendered
without resistance. By the same mode of argument,
the fleet at -2adiz might also fall into the posses,ori
of the enemy. Surely some means might have been
found of removing the ships at Ferrol from the power
of the enemy ; they might have been sent half man.
ned to Minorca, or any other place where they would
have been out of his reach. Whilst tipcm his legs,
he wished to ask the Noble Secretary of titate, when
it was likely the Treaty with the Spanish GoVe:n.
mentwould be laid before the House ?
Lord GREN/ILLE said, after the wish expres.
sed by the Noble Lord (Mulgrave), his Noble Friend
would probably withdraw his motion, but he trusted
his Noble Friend, on again making it, would enlarge
it, so as to include all the communications which had
taken place on this subject. He had Neared with pain,
the statement of the Noble Lord, and could not bat
think that there had been a great want of prudence
and foresight in the conduct of Ministers, in no:
having taken measures to secure the fleet at Ferri
from the grasp of the enemy. He did not mean to
I say, that they ought to have resorted to force arc
violence against an Ally, but he thought. they had
been deficient in measures of friendship and conc..
liciation, which would have produced a far different
effect.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL had always &prec.t•
ted any attempt to obtain a partial object for our
,own
advantage, in the assistance given to Spain. It 1: Isi
constantly been the policy of his Majesty's Ministyri
to give a disinterested support to the Spanish cati3z..
from which ultimately, the greater advantage wouhi
arise, and from which already many advantages had
flowed. He was glad to hear the Noble Lord (Gm.
vine) say, that force and violence ought not to
been resorted to, and he trusted the Noble Baron v..s.
prepared to go further and to say, that neither
nor menace ought to been adopted towards our
With respect to the question of the Noble Duke,
expected to have his Majesty's commands to lay th:
treaty with the Spanish Government before the hove
on Monday.
The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE wac di,'
posed to agree with the Noble Earl, that neither i;,7CO
or violence, nor threat, nor menace, ought to ha::
been used ; but deeply lamented, that after the •
ment made with respect to the ships being es,entLil
to the defence of Ferrol, that that place should hat
surrendered without resistance.
Lord AUCKLAND agreed to withdraw his m.,•
Lion for the present, in consequence of what had be..-1
said by the Noble Lord (Mulgrave) ; but he wouU
not believe that such could have been the conduct ,
of the Spaniards until the documents were beforc the
House. It was acknowledged that the mean existed
of removing the fleet, and the 32d French Balletic
confessed that the inhabitants of Ferrol wo o ail
English at heart. There was therefore a conetnien..!
of circumstances to prove, that the fleet might hat,!
been rescued from the grasp of the enemy.
• Earl GREY observed, that a heavy responsibility
rested upon Ministers with respect to the Spanis!t
navy. They had- suffered the fleet at Ferrol to fall
into the hands of the enemy, and if the plea they
had set up was to be allowed, with what hope could
they look to the other ports of Spain ? It was no:
only at Cadiz, as stated by a Noble Duke, that there
was a Spanish fleet, but there was also at Carthagena
a considerable squadron, which had lately arrived
there from Minorca, and the responsibility rested wit.o
Ministers, that these fleets should not be converted
by the enemy into instruments of hostility ;gains'
this country. . •
Some further conversation ensued with respect to
bringing forward the motion on a future day, bu:
Lord Auckland declined fixing a d.ty, a,.d rather
wished that Ministers would look into &lc:tune:V.
relating to the subject, and lay on the table such ca
them as could be made public without denim:lit to
the public service.

SPAIN AND PORTUGAL.
Baron CLIFTON (Earl of Darnley) moved 'for
several Papers relating to the operations of the Bri.
tish troops in Spain and Portugal. His Lordship
ssid, that as the public had now got rid of one
important subject, he hoped they would turn their
mind to others of nearly as much importance.
dwelt for a considerable time on the misconduct of the
campaign in the peninsula, and the calamitous re•
treat to Corunna.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL professed his inclina-
tion not to object to the greater part of the Pape:
moved for. There were two, however, to the produc-
tion of which, as he stated on a former evening, he
could not accede, namely, the letter of the 4th of Au-
gust, from Lord Castlereagh to Sir Hew Dalrymple,
and the instructions relating to the formation of the
Regency in Portugal. That the production of thecc
Would be attended with great public inconvenience he
had mentioned at that time. His,Lordship.Obsers:ed
seriatim on the different motions made by Lord Clii•
ton, and explained the modifications under which he
was disposed to agree to_their production. Among

ierstood that extracts of the last dispatches
.loGre are to be produced.
of ROSSLYN proposed a Motion for
• Papers respecting communications be-
'rere and the President of Spain.
ENVILLE thought it necessary to take
ob-,ervation made by the Noble Secretary
wuting blame to Sir John Moore, for not
the letters of Mr. Frere.
of LIVERPOOL apologized for inter-
Noble Lord, but thought it incumbent on
, that he did nor intend to impute blame
Moore ; all l c meant to state was, that in
,i.icial course of business the letters were

transmitted either by Sir John Moore or
j [tore. That they were not transmitted bygicar
I,bn Moore might be accounted for by the multipli-
ci,v of Lusin ss in which he '. as engaged, and from
his 11,1 being in th habit of that species of official
ccmmunication.
rd GRENVILLE could not allow that the not
sersil these letters should be in any manner char-
-4
get. • vpon the distinguished Officer now no more. It
was:he duty of his Majesty's Minister at Madrid to
transmit officially to the Secretary of State the letters
Vlach he had officially written to Sir John M00re...-.
lie did rat mean to impute blame to Mr. Frere for
not transrjtting the letters. But if there was any
gar, ought to attach to the living Minister, and
not to the memory of the illustrious Commander
rbem we had unfortunately lest.
Tre first Motion for Mr. Frere's letters was then
agreed to.
on the second Motion, for tine letter from Lord
Castlereagh to Sir Hew Dalrymple, of the 4th of
September, with the inclosures, a short conversation
arose, in which Lord Viscount SIDMOUTII adverted
to what had been said when the motion was formerly
made, and Earl GREY thought it was incumbent on
;Ministers to state some more precise ground of objec-
tirn to the production of those papers, than that of
its being detrimental to the public service.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL stated in reply, that
th inclosures to which the Motion referred were the
observations of the Portuguese Minister upon the con-
clusion of the Armistice. His Majesty's Government
Fad thought it expedient to transmit them to Sir H.
Dalrymple, and it was upon the impropriety of mak-
it.g public the representation of the Portuguese Mini-
th..t he felt a compliance with the Noble Earl's
Notion injurious to the public
Earl GREY contended, that if the objection of his
A' •,--vd-
Government extended only to the inc'o-
Sues, he trusted for the acquiescence of h;s I\Taiesty's
i‘linistets in the Amendment which he Ehou!ri pro-
p Ase for the production of either a copy or extract of
the ietter of Lord Castlereagh, of the 4th of Septem-
ber, ~sithout the inclosures.
T.-.e Earl of LIVERPOOL answered, that the ori
gin:l lelter, without the indo.,ares, could not afford
the N( ble Earl the information lie sought. It only
went to prove what his Majesty's Ministers were ready
to allow, that on the intimation that the Armistice
was concluded, they were much dissatisfid with that
rre-I,tire.

The Earl of LITIUNGHAMSEiRE could not
reconcile the dissatisfaction which the Noble Earl,
(I..rezpotiustated to have been felt by Ministers with
dererni......ruif,r, of public rejoicings which wok
hen the !int account of the Armistice was re-
At all event::, he thought it but justice to Sir
Dalrymple that the dispatch of the 4th should
t.1.,;(11,A0‘ re the House.

Lir-,1 GRENVILLE could not conceive how any
e•: en in the Avildest stretch of imagination could
frLy, that there was any possibility of danger to his
I,T.tjesty's service from a compliance with the limited
tr.(l qualified amendment of his Noble Friend.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL oblierved, that it was
the usage to resort to public rejoicings, xs ~ien the
contry of an ally was evacuated by the enemy, in
consequence of the operations of British troops.—
In accordance with that usage, the Tower guns were
Fred on the communication of the Convention of Cin,
tra being concluded. It did not, however,
that therefore his Majesty's Government had approved
of all the articles of that measure. He did believe
that it was usual to order similar demonstrations cf
Fablic rejoicings, when an Island belonging to the
cnciny was taken possession of by British troops, al-
thi.ugh very strong objections were entertained by
Government at home, with respect to the specific pro.
Ilsihns of the Capitulation.
The question was then put upon the amendment
cf Earl Grey, and strangers were ordered to with-
drone preparatory to a division ; but during ear ab-
we understand, the Motions were negatived,
a division. _ _

al:o learned that Earl Grey fixed upon an
day, after the Easter Recess, for the discussion
intended motion on the conduct of the Spanish
rc:Taign.—Adjourned till Monday.

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