Star.
London, England, 1812-04-18 00:00:00

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.

Mr. WHI r BREAD said, he held in his hand a
Petition, signed by eight or nine thousand Christians,
of every description, or all denominations, in favour
of the measure known by the name of Catholic
Emancipation. It was of the same nature with a
Petit:on he had the honour of presenting three years
ago—he said the honour, not in the common accep-
tation of the term, but as considering it not only to
be a great honour, Out Nelms a great gratification
in being selected for this purpose. He had this Pe-
tition put into his hands by a man who would have
been celebrated and distinguished in any age or
country—e man distinguished during a long life by
his virtues, and by his zealous ezerti...ns in the cause
of religion—a man, tough aged, still healthy and
active in the cause in which he had spent the vigour
01-his earlier years, and whose hope was to see that
cause conAimmated in the adoption of the grand
principles of religions. libel ty—u mall persevering
in the same career, and whom, after this descrip-
tion, it was hardly necessary for him to name—the
Rev. Mr. Wyvili. So soon as this Pecitton w dis-
posed of, he had many others on the same subject
to present.
'1 he Petition w•as then received, read, and laid on
the Table. After which

Mr. WHITBREAD presented similar Petitions
froth Sheffield, Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Exeter,
Hull, Nottingham, Halifax, Newcastle, and Ber-
wick, all f which were ordered to lie on the Table.
Mr. WHITBREAD then observed, that as a
Right Hon. Triund of his (Mr. Giattan) had given
notice of a motion, which would involve all the toQics
cnntained in these Petitions, and the whole question
connected with religious liberty, he would -now ab-
stain from stating any ulterior proceedings in view
upon the prayer of these Petitions. He would there-
fore watt for the issue of that day, and move, that
the Petitions he bad now presented should be referred
to the Committee appointed to inquire into that sub-
ject. While on his legs he begged leave to give no-
tice, that he would, on Wednesday, the 29th April,
bring forward a motion, the effect of which would
be to render that the legal, which was now the liberal
construction of the Toleration Act, with regard to
persons coming to take the Oaths at the Quarter
Sessions. He was sorry to observe, that a new and
more confined construction was now endeavoured to
be -put on this part of the Aut,

ORDERS IN COUNCIL.
Mr. WILBERFORCE brought up a Petition, signed by settee
thousand Pezioaa, Manufacturers tot Shedleld, a ..14.t the Ordas
to Council.
Sir C. MORDAUNT presented a similar Fetid3n from Bir-
taingluan, signed by fourteen tuansand persons. On the motion
for it being laid on the table,
Mr.BA RING felt it to be impossible, when such Pee
titions were presented from our most populous manu-
facturing towns, to refrain from calling the attention
of the House to the subject. These, it was to be obe
served, did not come ft orn persons who wire indu.
enced by a desire to obstruct the measures Go.
trernment ; but from persons who had not COMO for.
ward till their own rum and the starving state of
those under. them, forced them to come to that
House, and state the fatal results of the %mein
which had of late unhappily been pursued., The Hd-
Pourable Gentleman proceeded to comment on the
epee's which had been brought on this country by tee
Stoppage of the trade with America, and un the fai-
lure ot our Orders in Council, which had ended in
our granting licence; to permit the importation of
&early all the manufactures of the enemy, which it
is our interest to prohibit. Hardly any thing was
excluded but wine and brandy, and the only restrice
tion en the importation of their commodities was,
that £5 per ton in British manufactures was to be
exported, in return for the imports. In many in.
stances, however, for iess exported, £5OOO might be
imported. To palliate that conduct which had led
to these evils, it was now proposed to throw open a
part of the trade to India. This, however, gave hint
but little consolation, as he feared its effect would
be to endanger our Empire there, and to ruin those
who endeavoured to avail themselves of the change.
Mr. ROSE thought this subject would be better
discussed when the papers which were ordered to be
produced were before them. The Honourable Gen•
Leman had said, that by our licences we let in those
commodities of France which it was most our in.
' terest.to prohibit. Now he would observe, that on
lawns which were permitted to be imported, there
was a duty of 60 per cent. and this, be thought, was
some protection. With respect to laces, &c. he
would observe, that an their importation no duties
were imposed by the last Administration, as it was
felt that they would have little or no effect, and in
this feeling their successors had participated. That
some of our manufacturing towns had suffered to a
considerable extent, he had no doubt, but whether
they had so suffered in consequence of the Orders in
Council, was a very different question.
. Sir C. MORDAUNT offered a tew observations
on the present state of Birmingham, as when such
hard words as ruin and starvation were used, he
thought they ought rot to go unanswered. The
town was not in that deplorable state in which it had
been supposed to be. As a proof of this, he could
state, that the recruiting service in that neighbour.
hood, had been very slack. He did not say it had
not suffered • he admitted that the people of Bir-
mingham had endured a great deal. and with great
patience, but hitherto a want of employment had MI
been very severely felt by the industrious, though it
was feared it soon would be, as the stock in hand
was so great, that work would not long be found
unless that stock was got off. If, however, much
was felt here, much also was telt on the other side of
the Atlantic. An American could not shave himself
nor catch his mice, for want of our commodities. He
concluded, observing that if it were shewn to the
people of Birmingham that the present system ought to
be persevered in, they would quietly go to their gar.
dens and dig potatoes.
Mr. BARING explained.
Mr. WHITBREAD, after some allusion to the
late disturbances, contrasted the concurrence of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer last year, in the motion
for a Committee to enquire into the causeof these die.
tresses, with the opposition which every such motion
had met with in the present Session. He wished to
know if it was his intention, now he saw the distur-
bances which had broken out in the heart of the
country, to refer the subject to a Committee, to. en-
quire if the statements made by the complainants
were true, and if true, to inform them that for them
there was no relief. She Hon. Baronet would, not.
withstandiu,,a all he had advanced, give him leave
to tell him that to support our commercial credit the
House had in the last year consented to the funding
of ate,ooo,ooo of Exchequer Bills, the greater part ct.
which, he understood, had been appropriated to the
assistance ot our manufacturers. These bills were
to be repaid by instalments. The first instalment
had been paid. The second would come due to-mor-
row, and he called upon the Right Hon. Gentleman
to say if he had nut been told that it could not be
paid ? Under such circumstances, did it not become
him to ask if the Right Han. Gentleman would refer
the subject to a Committee to inquire if these evils
resulted from the Orders in Council ? The Honour-
able Baronet was wrong in what he had said respect-
ing America. If America were shut, Birmingham
must be idle ; and if idle, its population must starve
—America then must be kept open, by her necessity,
or by our policy, and latterly it has appeared to be
our policy to shut it. They had, however, been told
that America could not catch her mice, and could
not shave her herself. The Honourable Baro-
net might have told us,*that till lately America
could not ride her horse—could not shoe her horse
had not a nail to drive—but he would find that the
last orders from America called for no nails, (though
nails were formerly articles of prime necessity), ha.
ving been driven to manufacture them for herself.—:
Thus would it be found in other things if the present
system were persevered in ; thus would her manufac-
tures increase and improve, to the annihilation of our
trade. The accounts which we daily read ot the ri-
sing of the people at Sheffield, at Manchester, at
Leeds, and at Huddersfield, were such, that it they
came from Ireland, it would be said the country was
in a state of rebellion, while from their novelty in this,
coautry, they seemed so be eossideeed but et little im-


_ .
portence. He hoped, however, that because the
were famished, they would net be treated with seveL
rity. and he hoped, if a man wrote a temperate letter
calling en his Pillows to apply to Parliament and to
the Prince Regeet for reli(f, if to afford it were pos
sible, that a treasonable intention to excite others to
violence would not be imputed to him. He was sur-
prised at the description which had been given cf the
licences granted. No two things could be mere dif-
ferent than that which they had been described to be
-to-night, and that which he had previously understood
them ttebe. He cencluJed be expressing a hope that
some enquiry into the subject would be made.
Sir C. Ms)R.D A uNT and Mr. ROSE explained.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said he did not rise to enter into any general discus-
sion on the Orders in Council; but after what had
passed, he felt himself called upon to make a few ob-
servations.
The Honourable Gentleman had stated,
that the Petitions came from persons who had an op-
• portunity of forming their opinions by experiment
upon the evils resulting from the Orders in Council.
Now this he apprehended they could not ; for the
point upcin which he and the Honourable Gentleman
were at issue, at the present moment, was, Whether
• those evils proceeded from the Orders in Council, or
from other causes ? It was true, these persons were
'competent t•) state the pressure which was felt in
trade ; but he knew not how they could decide whe-
ther that preesure would have been greater or less if
the Orders in Council had never existed (Hear, hear,)
—whether, in fact, the Berlin and M an Decrees
would have produced the mischief without them.—
He would say, that not only our difficulties had not
increased since the adoption of these Orders, but that
the whole trade of the country was in a better state.
He was surprised tp find the Honourable Gentle.
man's knowledge of trade so far overborne by his
zeal against the measures of Government, as to say,
the Orders in Council were to prevent neutrals from
trading with the enemy. He would maintain, that
" the end was to open all trade, even to France herself,
if France would trade with Great Britain. France
had prohibited trade with Great Britain, and Great
. Britain prohibited all trade to France but what should
go through Great Britain. The result was a pres-
sure upoir France, such as compelled her to open her
ports to the trade of this country (Hear.) He would
state, that that very system of licences which was re-
presented to be a departure from the Orders in Coun-
cil, was a proof of their efficacy and effect. He
agreed that when the question of licences was before
the House, this matter would be better discussed.—
As to. the importation of wine and brandy, they were
obliged to take a considerable quantity of sugar and
coffee in return ; and with regard to laces, muslins,
. and other articles of the kind, they would be brought
in illegally, it there was no allowance granted. He
was surprised that so much misinformation should
exist with respect to the outrages perpetrated in dif.
ferent parts of the country, that they should be ascri-
bed to the Orders in Council, to starvation, and such
causes. But was it owing to starvation that the mills
were broken down ? Was such conduct to be defen-
ded, excused, and palliated ? As to the town from
which this Petition had been presented, thy had
heard the statement of the Honourable Baronet, who
had told them, that at the present moment the want
of employment was not severely felt. The Honour-
able Gentleman had recommended that the subject
should be referred to a Committee ; but. the House
should recollect that this was a case involving a
great political question, which it was not Ills! practice
of Parliament to delegate to any circumscribed Com-
mittee, but to determine in a Committee of the whole
House. A detailed examination of evidence did not
appear to him to suit a subject of that kind. He
knew what in effect the shutting of the American
market must have ; .but would the Hon. Gentleman
state whether they would repeal the Orders in Coun-
cil, and what they expected from such a step ?
There was one time when Gentlemen thought that
the Berlin and Milan Decrees were done away ; but
that time was past : no man that knew any thing of
the epbject would say so now. It was noiified by
France herself that they should continue to operate ;
• that they should be considered as the fundamental
law of the Continent until we abandoned our system
of blockade. There was no man in that House who
lamented the distresses that were felt more than he
did ; but would any man say he was prepared to
give up our maritime rights, by which Great Bri-
tain had risen to power and consequence ? When
this declaration on the part of Fi ance with respect to
the continuance of his Decrees was known in Ame-
rica, he was not without a hope that America would
not charge upon this country an unnecessa►y strict-
ness in the measures to which she had resorted. But
whatever the effect in America might be, this coun-
try ought to know that those Decrees were in full
force now, and were to continue so until Great Bri-
tain should yield up those privileges upon which her
prosperity was so strongly founded. The Honourable
Gentleman had asked him on the subject of the com-
mercial bills, whether he knew that the next instal.
merit would not be paid ? It had been states to him
that many of those who were bound to pay the in-
stalment would be distressed by being obliged to do
•so ; that many were not sufficiently relieved by corn-
rnercial bills, but did not believe ;hey would not be
answered by the generality of those who were bound
to pay. lithe Orders in Council were repealed be-
fore the Berlin and Milan Decrees, the consequence
would be that France would have her neutral trade
open w ith America, while we were denied the trade
of the Continent of Europe. Unless the House was
prepared to say that this would be judicious, the pre-
sent did not seem to him to be a period in which it
was possible to do away the Orders in Council.
Mr. BROUGHAM anticipated all the astonish-
ment he had felt from the Right Hon. Gentleman's
speech. Manufacturers brought their complaints be-
fore that House in petitions signed by thousands and
tens of thousands. After having in vain made their
applications at Court, and after a deaf ear was turned
►n that quarter to their Petitions, they now came to
Parliament, and the Vice-President of the Board of
Trade, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, put off
the consideration of their applications until some
other period. One would think they had forgotten
what had happened two months back. Was this the
first time they were asked tp enter into the question ?
Had not he himself a short time back called u;on
them for an inquiry into this aloft important sub-
ject And what answer did he receive ?—that there a

,

wain() inconvenience felt ; that there was no distress
in the country.—(Near, hear, hear, from the Opposi-
tion.)—Lsok, said the Gentlemen opposite, look to
Mr. Irwitys books—(Hear, hear, hear.)—there you
will perceive the flourishing state of the. country,
there you will perceive what little foundation there is
for complaint. He was then t2ld, that the apparent
falling off in commerce was only when compared
with the most flourishing year which the country had
ever known. He was desirous to believe this—he
was desirous to be convinced that the country was in
, this.
happy
state, but look to the accounts of disinss
pouring in from all parts of the kingdom. When he
looked to the columns of the Gazette, crowded with
lists of bankrupts, his faith in Mr. Irwin's books was
a little diminished, and he could not believe that
trade could be prosperous amidst all this distress.—
There was no one day now passed without receiving
Petitions from starving thousands of their unhappy
countrymen—without accounts thickening on each
other of tumult, and disorder, and misery. He
wished-to avoid, as much as any man, the mention
of those things. He was no patron of disturbance,
and he would now pray the House to consent to an
inquiry as a measure of justice. He would not now
go into the question of the Orders in Council, because
that was not now asked, but the country was in dis.
tress. The Petitioners stated their distresses to
arise from the Orders, and desired at least, inquiry.
The Right Honourable Gentleman opposite an-
swers— no ! we will not inquire, but we shall give
them a debate—they have had one night, and they
shall have another. But this wits not what the coun-
try wanted. They wanted inquiry, with' ut which,
if the country rested satisfied, he should not any
longer hold the same opinion of its good sense as he
before entertained. The Right Honourable Gentle.
man said, that the Petition from Birmingham arose
rather from the apprehension than the actual feeling
of distress. In that town and its vicinity there were
from 50 to 70,000 persons who derived subsistence
from their manual ingenuity, and it should be re-
membered, that if they were once disbanded, the
means of carrying on the manufactures of that town
would be lost ; this circumstance induced their em-
ployers to retain them in employment at the low
wages of 12s. per week, but if they lgoked at the
clothing districts, where the same dexterity of hand
was not required for the manufacture, they would
find that vast numbers were out of employment.—
In Manchester alone, 25,000 persons, about one quar-
ter of the whole population, were receiving parochial
aid, and the parish rate; tchere had in consequence risen
from 6s. to 10s. 6d. Were he asked what remedy he
would propose for all those evils, he would say, repell
the Orders in Council, and if, after that, the same dis-
tresses continued, they might then say to the Peti-
tioners, if any appeared, we have done all we could
for your prosperity ; consistently with the dignity of
the country, we cannot'do more. Every opportunity
for enquiry was given upon this subject; but it was
pertinaciously refused, and a Noble Friend of his in-
tended shortly to give the same opportunity again,
by a motion on this subject. If the inquiry was en-
tered into at present, there would be found a prece-
dent for it in the proceedings of the West India Com-
mittee. The Minister may depend upon it, that the
country would not suffer him to embark in a war
with America, from which the country had before
prevented Mr. Pitt from embarking.
Lord CASTLEREAGH would not enter into
the consideration of the policy of the Orders in Coun-
cil ; but felt it necessary' to protest against those
suggestions which were calculated to excite distur-
bance in the public mind. The Hon. Gentleman
who had last spoken seemed to insinuate that the
Royal ear had turned away from the petitions of the
country ; but it was not fair to take this advantage
of the mere delay of a levee, which delay arose from
the indispOsition of the Royal personage now filling
the Executive part of the Government ? If his ob-
ject was to have the question fairly discussed, he
should wait until it came regularly before the House.
His Lordship could not approve the conduct of
those who nad (flown unnecessary pictures of public
digress, instead of fairly examining what it was that
France really desired from this country. He firmly
hoped, that Parliament would discountenance all ef-
forts to in itate, agitate, and mislead the public mind,
by florid pictures of distress. He was ready to meet.
the question at any time, and discuss the matter tol
the bottom.
Lord STANLEY deemed the attention that ought
to be paid to a petitioning motion, a proper examina-
tion of, and ultimate attention to the purport and
prayers of the petitioners. In the course of next
week, possibly on Monday, he should make some mo-
tion respecting the petitions now lying on their table.
Lord BINNING, as Chairman of the Commercial
Loan Committee, stated, that he had no reason to
think, that many were not ready to meet the instal-
ment• which became due to-morrow; certainly, it
might be convenient to some that it should be post-
poned.
Mr. WHITBREAD explained as did Lord BINNING.

Mr. LYTTLETON stated some facts, of which
he deemed it proper that the House should be put in
possession. In the first place, he had great reason
to doubt the statement that all the manufacturers of
Birmingham were now in employ ; for, according to
a sort of Census that had recently been taken, it ap-
peared that some masters did not employ more than
one-tlird of the hands that they used to engage, and
not one of them engaged more than two-thirds. In
the next place, he would observe, that there were
many Friendly,Societies and Clubs, in Birmingham,
which enabled those out of employ to have relief
without applying to the parish. He vould now ob-
serve, that he made the statement on the best autho-
rity, that in the course of two months there would be
70,000 of the Dudley and Birmingham manufacturers
out of employ.' Were such facts ~temporary incon-
veniencies ?"

General TA RLETON maintained, that the h;gh
and the low, the rich and the poor, the merchant and
the trader, of Liverpool, all attributed the state of the
trade to those sources of the most extensive grievances
the Orders in Council.

After some observations by Mr. MARRYATT and
General TARIATON in reply, the petition was ordered
to lie on the table.

Upon the second reading of the Sinecure Bill, the
CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER intimated his inten-
tion of opposing the Bill upon, general principles.--,
Alter a lew observations from Mr. DANIU, the Bill

was read a second time, and crdered to be committed
on this day sc'nnight.

THE PRINCESSES.
Upon the question for the third reading of the
Printesses' Annuity Bill,
Mr TIERNEY, with every disposition to chew
liberality to the Royal Family, objected to this Bill,
first, because the proposed annuity of £36,000 per
annum was to commence from the 18th of February
last, instead of being at the demise of the Kin ; he
next objected, because the House had already voted
a considerable sum of money to the Queen, in consi-
deration of the Princesses continuing to live with her
as hitherto ; he next objected to any such grant, be-
cause no satisfactory reason had been given why, at
this period in the straightened state of our funds,
they should make such a grant ; it amounted to no-
thing more nor less than giving them a sum of mo-
ney to lay by ; for he could not believe that in the
present unhappy state of their Royal Mother, any
thing would induce them to desert her. He farther
objected to the grant, because it was made a charge
upon the Consolidated fund, instead of being payable
out of the hereditary revenue of the Crown, to which
alone it was properly applicable. Already a sum
amounting to 8184,000 had been granted for the
maintenance of the Queen and her Royal Daughters,
aad he could not see the necessity of bringing a fur-
ther harden of £36,000 per annum upon the Public.
When these sums were voted, it was urged, that it
was necessary the King should be attended with
some state and splendour around him ; but he would
ask, whether a single Lord of the Bedchamber had
ever even seen his Majesty since his indisposition ?
It was all a pretext ; and, in plain English, was no-
thing more than making provision for certain
persons in favour.—(Hear, hear.)—Before he sat
down, he could not help adverting to the singular
circumstances in which her Royal Highness the
Princess Regent was left to appear before the coun-
try.—(Hear, hear.)—lt seemed as if her fate was
already sealed (Hear, hear) ; abandoned as she was
by her once chivalry champion (Hear, hear), her old
friend, her faithful counsellor.—(Hear.) But if the
Right Honourable Gentleman had found reason to
change his opinion with respect to her, why had the
Princess Charlotte of Wales, the future hope of Eng-
land, been altogether overlooked in these arrange-
ments ? she was now bordering upon her 17th year,
and not, either from her rank, prospects, or time of
life, wholly exempted from the Right Honourable
Gentleman's consideration. He concluded by re-
peating his general objections to the whole arrange.
ment, as founded upon a system designedly confused,
disguised, and unintelligible.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that the question of his Majesty's establishment
had been already sritled, and could not apply to this
question : and the House, he believed, 'did not think
that too much had been done, although the state of
his Majesty's health had not been such as to enable
him to receive any of the advantages which were
likely to arise from the provision which had been
made suitable to his exalted station. But if no such
advantages were likely to occur, it did not follow
that it was right to strip the Sovereign of all the
forms and appearances of his high state—(Hear.)—
That might, however, be the opinion of others.—
(No! from Mr. Tierney.)—lf all the State Officers
were removed, more would not be gained than to
provide for two of the four Princesses. But he sup-
posed the Right Hon. Gentleman agreed there-should
be some state around the King. The only material
objection was to the date of the 18th of February.—
There could be no doubt why that was adopted, as
it was the date of the expiration of` the restrictions.
The objection lay against every date till the day of
the King's death. The point at issue was, whether,
during his life, the Princesses should have any sepa-
rate establishment ? As far as he could collect, the
opinion of the House on this point was nearly uni-
versal.—(Hear, hear.)—lt could hardly be supposed
that the measure was introduced without consulting
the Princedes themselves : and there was a great
difference between all the Princesses leaving the
Queen, and their wishes, though all might not be
so disposed, yet, in their turn, occasionally to leave
Windsor, where the duties she had to discharge kept
their Royal Mother. Nothing was more distant than
the idea of their deserting her ; but only the means,
if they chose it, of having an establishment, should
they remove for any time.
Mr.WPIITBREAD remarked, that the Right Hon.
Gentleman had said not one word about the Princess
of Wales or the Princess Charlotte of Wales, nor had
he given any satisfactory explanation. He ought in
the beginning to have laid down his whole plan, for he
must have known it all before hand. There was no
doubt the Minister had communicated with the Prin-
cesses : but had he explained the state of the Civil
List, and of the burthens of the country ? If he ha.cl,
would not they, as well as other persons, feel for the
condition of their father's subjects ? Would not they
have naturally said, " if under these circumstances,
under the increasing taxation of the country, no sav-
ings can be made from the regular and additional
provisions for the Royal Family, we would rather de-
cline to occasion this new expellee on the public."—
As to the state of the King, was it true that of the four
Grooms three were actually out of the country, Ad-
miral Legge, General Campbell, and Sir H. B. Neale,
certainly persons of merit and distinction? Could it
be presumed they were necessary ? Was it true that
only an Equerry had attended instead of a Groom ?
Who was it really then that neglected the King ?
But the Princes were not placed independent of the
Crown and the Minister. Suppose one of them in
disfavour, or an attempt made to matron' him,
through the medium of his allowance, what remedy
was there in Parliament, when the Minister might
say the Crown did not consent ? The Princesses
ought to be paid from the Civil List, as the Private
Secretary ought to be paid out of the Regent's poc-
ket. But perhaps there were some new hopes, as
the Queen was about to hold her Court and open
her drawing-room again I But why was there no
appearance all_ this time of the Princess of Wales ?
—The question respecting her Royal Highness the
Princess of Wales wan not to considered as a mere
private matter, an affair of secret arrangement (hear.)
There had Aieen serious examinations—there had
been solemn proceedings on that subject ; the Right
Hon Gentleman opposite had boldly s:epped forward
in her vindication. More than that, he had actually
written or compiled a book upon the subject, and he
had even printed a number of copies of it (Hear,)

Hundreds had read it ! (Hear.) Remove had-even
said it was an attack on the Prince of Wales! (Hear.)
It had even been said that copies of it had been after.
wards bought up by the Right Hon. Gentkrnaws
Private Secretary, for which he gave enormous sums'
Did the Right Hon. Gentleman now shrink, f
rog
that which hundreds had read ? (Hear.)• He would
ask him whet:ier he shrank from it, or was prepared
to abide by it, and to let the Princess of Wales ap.
pear again as she ought to appear ? That persua I
would expect that she, too, would preside in a draw.
ing-room, after alI that had passed with the Right
Hon. Gentleman's perfect knowledge—after he had
publicly said that he knew of no well founded charge
against her ; and when the confirmation of that was
said to be found in her reception at the King's Court..
(Hear.) Yet, after all this had occurred, and
erru
when this Bin was introduced, still he had thou?;,
of no grant to the Princess of Wales, founded on
Cs
general principle of providing for the Royal Family,
and the new changes in their circumstances t Though
he (Mr. Whitbread) wished that some proper pro.
vision should be made for her, according to her situ t.
tion, and suitable to her pre-eminence, he should
even then think it right to examine into the Civil
List, and see what savings could be effected, to enable
his Royal Highness the Prince Regent to provide
sufficiently for the establishment of the Princess of
Wales as well as for his Royal Sisters ! (Hear.)—.
He should, therefore, until that was done, resist any
grants ; but he would then specifically call on the
chancellor of the Exchequer to know why he had
totally omitted that branch of the Royal Family
(Hear, hear.)
A desultory conversation took place between Mr.
TIERNEY, Mr. COU itTENAY, Sir J. NEWPORT, the
CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER, &C. on the COUSDISIC.
' tion of a former Act.
Mr. ROSE contended that the real hereditary
Crown-revenues were only ,e 300,000 a year.
Mr. W. SMITH could hardly restrain his feelinp
in speaking on this unfortunate measure : and pitied
the Right Hon. Gentleman's necessity in proposing
such a vote under such circumstances. He had ex.
pected daily to hear from some quarter that it might
be entirely dispensed with,
Mr. Secretary RYDER was surprised Gentlemen
should have deferred their objections till the third
reading. (Mr. W. Smith said it was the third or
fourth time he had objected). Then said Mr. Ryder
others did not (Mr. Whitbread said, the Secretary of
State must be wrong, for he also had). Mr. Seem.
' tary Ryder observed, that the Princess of Wales was
no party to the present question. Me li:oilier own
independent provision (ie.5000 a year from the omelet
ride.) Whether that ought to be encreased, said Mr.
Ryder, was another question, (hear). He thought it
Would be far more proper and more delicate i* Gen•
tlemen to abstain from such subjects, and from such
questions as had been put, by way of trying to elicit
answers from those who might know the most on the
subject; and which those in situations of confidence
must always wish to avoid.—( Hear, hear.)—He was
sure that by any such questions they would not easily
prevail upon his Right Hon. Friend to deviate
from that proper and respectful silence which be. ,
longed to such a subject.—(:Hear, hear, from 1141
rides.)—lt had been said, that if the Queen held a
Coprt, another illustrious Personage should hold bee
should only say, iliac the
drawing-room nwga.r os ma also.
King, He
and that her Majesty oas still
Queen ; and who was so proper a personage to holds
Court as the Queen ? (Hear.)—He defendtd the Bill
as a provision for those illustrious females, who were
adorned as much by their virtues as their rank.
BREAD was explaining, but ‘irq
calMledr. W
t o order.Hil.

Lord A. HAMILTON opposed the Bill, and ra
marked, that the very ground for voting £lO,OOO
a-year more to the Queen was the cspen,e incurred
by the .Princesses liviag with her. The delicacy of
the Right Hon. Secret iry operated against the Prin-
cess of Wales, for• nobody could move any grant to
her without the Crown's consent.

Mr. WHITBREAD expressed a wish that the
Right Hon. Secretary would explain the charge d
indelicacy whiz') he had brought against him in the
course of the debate. And as the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman was sitting by his Right Hon. Friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, and could obtain in-
formation, he wished now to put the question, whs.
ther there had not been a solemn proceeding on the
subject of the enquiry, so often alluded to; whether
a 'reference had not been made of it to his Majesty's
advisers ; and whether, in consequence thereof, the
Princess of Wales had nor, for a time, been absent
from Court I He would ask, also, whether the Right
Hon. Gentleman had not had a private press at his
own house, where he caused the substance of the In-
vestigation to be printed, and a great number of
copies thrown off for the purpose of being widely
circulated ; whether a number of copies of th.4t book
had not been since bought up at a great expense, and
advertisements published, directing 'those who were
in possession of copies to go to one Lindsell's. a book-
seller, where they w ould receive a liberal compenta-
lion ? The information which he now asked for•
migia, in some respects, be of a private nature, but
it was also of great public importance.
Mr. RYDER did not think the Honourable Gen-
tleman's appeal would be productive of mucbcffect-
As a Member of Parliament, he (Mr. Ryder) did
state his opinion as to the indelicacy of the allusions
which had been made. He believed that man/
others coincided with him in that opinion; and that no
part of the conduct of Gentlemen opposite ha.: given
more disgust to the public at large than the manner
in which they had introduced the name of the Prin-
cess of Wales into the discussion on the present Bill.
(Loud and continued cries of hear, hear, from both
sides of the House.) Having given this opinion ",
the indelicacy and impropriety of introducing nal
such topics, it would not be necessary for him to as-
sign any other reason why be gave no ROOM t° tbs
Ifonourable Gentleman's questions.
The House then divided, when there apreaitd.ig
the Amendment—Ayes, 35—Noes 191. The °`"
was then read a third time, and passed.
GOLD COIN RILL.
Mr. WHARTON appeared at the bar with. 51$
report of this Bill.
The CHANCELLOR- of the EXCHEQUEI
moved, that the Report be brought up. nis
opposed by Mr. PARNELI. and Mr. W. SKITIII
Mfg
adverted to tho lateness of the hour, and 6°o