Star.
London, England, 1802-05-15 00:00:00

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chants' (crake have been augmented from one
hundred and eighteen thoufand to one hundred
and forty-three thoufand men. Let thefe confe-
derations be coupled with the circumflance,
that we have had during the conteft, no lefs than
one hundred and twenty thoufand men employed
in our navy, and it will not fail to excite the moil
ardent admiration of the maritime greatnefs of the
country. It mull not be palled over, that the in-
terference of neutral powers in the trade of Eu-
rope, rendered neceflary by the profecution of
hoftilities, is now completely done away, and we
(hall find abundant fubjeas for confidence and ex-
ultation in our commercial and naval pre-emi.
nence. Now, Sir, permit me to elk, how deco
France Rand with refpea to her maritime re-
fources? In the year 1777, (for I will go fo far
back as that period) her exports, accordiam to,
M. Necker, amounted to twelve millions, and her
importsto nine millions, which however were after-
wards increafed. Towards the commencement of
the late war, her exports were increafed by feven
millions and a half; and her imports by four mil-
lions and a half. Her grofs exports were finally
valued at feventeen millions, and her grefs im-
ports at fifteen millions.—Such was the Rate of her
commerce ; but what is her lituation at prefent ?
Her imports now are not more than fixty-one
thoufind pounds, and her exports do not exceed
eleven thnufand. In this extraordinary ftatement
I fpeak from the authority of the haft official re-
port. So that it appears, Sir, no country was
ever before plunged in fuch diftrefs, coupled with
the lots of capital, and with the decay of all kinds
of manufaeure. I beg Gentlemen will confider
the cafe as it really is, that of two countries flut-
ing together with fuel van differences in their re-
fources, and produaive means of national opu-
lence and profperity. I admit that population,
foil, and climate, are the great elements in making
wealth ; but though France polleffes thefeclements,
we are bound to confider that the has loft all during
the war, and that we have advanced one-half
more in the encreafe of our means. With thefe
grounds before us, I confefs I have little appre-
henfion of what France is fuppofed to be capable of
doing ; nor can I fee any caufe of alarm in the fyf.
tern of commercial hoftility which the is imagined
to meditate againft this country. Is it not abliird
to fuppofe that the country whole capital is (mall,
would with to cnnfume it in purchafing dear arti-
cles, while the might obtain them at a much
cheaper rate ? Will the Phut up her ports againft
all the world, for the purpofe of lending what
little capital Rte has left? Can the perfuade other
powers to do the fame ? Let the Houle look over
the trade of England, and fee what means France
poireffes to extend :Ms commercial fyftem of !tal-
ky to other counti ies. The faireft way would be
to look to the year of the war, when it was tried
with moll efficacy, when her power was moil felt,
and when her armies were in poffeffion of many
parts with which we traded. The general exports
of Great Britain to Europe, in I Soo, were (even
millions and a half; and now let us enumerate
thofe countries which France could not influence.
Among them we find Denmark, Rana, Sweden,
Poland, &c. and out of the whole (even millions
and a half it appears that no lets than five millions
eight hundred thoufand pounds were exported to
Acre lea* -On the other hand, if we recapi.
tulate the countries over which France predomi-
nated, fuch as Holland, Flanders, Italy, Spain,
etc. we (hall find the amount of our export to them
no more than feven hundred thoufand pounds.—
Thus, if even France were defirous to carry on
this hoftil- fyflem againft our commerce, (he could
not profecute it with any fuccefs, fence it is evi-
dent, that out of five millions and a halfof exports
to the Continent, the could only take away one
eighth of it. There is betides nothing to induce
us to apprehend that (he wiffies to exclude us from
the ports of Portul, for, according to the Treaty
with that Power, the exprefsly Itipulates that her
manufaaures (hall be received on the footing of
thole of the mon favoured nations. For my own
part, Sir, I defire no better terms, for in a fair
competition of that nature we have no occafion to
fear the iffue. With refpea to Italy, the influence
of France cannot be decifive, as Auftria Dill
re-
tains power in that country, and if it were, and
Otte were defirous to exercife it to our complete ex-
elufion, it would be totally impogible for her to
fupply Italy with the neceffary articles of importa-
tion. I (hall now. Sir, fubmit to the Houle, whe-
ther this country is likely to nand worfe, in a com-
mercial view; after the Peace, than during the
War ? (Ilene was a :wend joy of sear ! hear I teed
f:). He nest proceeded to thew that with re-
to America, the Well Indies, and the tranfit
trade, there did not axift the flighteft grounds for
anxiety, or gloomy anticipation, but that on the
contrary, while we gave to France Tome increafe of
maritime means aad aftivity, we at the fame time
confiderably added to our own trade and refources.
—The Noble Lord next adverted to the Rate of
St. Domingo, where the population had been fe
deftroyed, that it would take eighteen millions
fterling to reilore it. With refpea to the general
quenion of the Expedition that lately failed from
France, it was a trefiion of too extended a nature
to give his opinion on it then; hut he had no he-
fttation in raying that be Mould look upon the efta-
bliffiment of a Black Colony in that ifland with
difmay and apprehenfion. Thefe people had a
rnoft rooted mal ignit y againft all European fy Items :
a fpirit of !Infinity prevailed between the govern-
ment of fuch perfons and all other Governments
in the other islands. Befides, fuch a colony would
have a molt dangerous influence among the Black
Haves of the other colonies. Therefore he could
not. agree with thofe who felt alarmed at the pro-
bable faeces of the French expedition. As to our-
felves, we Rood in a lituation of great fccurity ; we
had flrength and refources funicient to enable us
to continue the flruggle, if fuch was ncceSary.
General MAITLAND began his defence of the
Definitive Treaty, and at the fame time Paid, he
would Date a few circumaanees from his local
and praCtical knowledge. There appeared to be a,
great difference in opinion among Gentlemen re-
(pelting the new boundaries of the French and
Port ugnefe territories in South America. But the
tea quarter to receive information from, on this

fubjcd, was the opinion of the Contrading Parties
themfelves, who had the greateft intereti in the
bufinefs. It was tingular, therefore, that the Hon.
Gentleman fhould he fo anxious to innold Porte.
gal and Franc: as to the geographical notation of ,
thole countri:s, although they muff be fuppofed
the befi qualiFo I to know what was moll condu-
cive to tar o•••n interetl. He had heard a great
deal cone- -ninr the fatal confequenccs likely to
wire from the ce'ffion of Louifiana to Frince, from
the advaata.,..s the thoald polies by the occupa-
tion of th-tt c?,untry. It was neceffary to recoiled,
that this was the country of projectors ; that Loui.
:lane'-•-• - bottom in which the whol Miffiflippi
.cheite h•d funk ; that it had formerly been in
the tatenpation of France, and fince that time pof-
fared by Spain, who granted feveral immunities
to the country, which notwithftanding, did not
advance one jot towards improvement; fo that,
after a century of cultivation, of which period .it
was 6o years in the poffeffion of France and 40
in that of Spain, it had made lefs advances to•
wards profperity than any other that could be
named. But it had been laid, this country would
give to the French a domineering interell in North
America. He was certain that in cafe of any
quarrel with the United States, the latter would
have a decided advantage : in fad, he Mould Jan-
tertain no fears for the event of filch a conten.—
As to the French fending emiffaries through this
country into America, he believed they would
eafily do fo again as they had already done, with-
out poffeffing any colony on the continent. It was
laid that the borders of Louifiana were no more
than three hundred miles from Mexico, and that
therefore the Spauifh Settlements were in danger
from the vicinity of the French. Gentlemen Who
made thefe Ratements would do well to go to that
country and fee the difficulty the French would
have in travelling and marching an army into
Mexico. In the next place it had been obferved,
that our Colonies were likely to be in great dan-
ger from the Colonizing fyttem of France, who
would rival and might ultimately hays a fape-
riority over us in the Weft-Indies as well as other
parts of the world. But did not Gentlemen think
it would be firft neceffary for France to fend a fleet
and armies to thefe Colonies ? and that before they
could do that, they mull have a paffport from the
Lords Commiffioners of the Admiralty in Eng-
land : for inn:lnce, whenever we fhould think pro-
per to declare war againft France. every colony
the had, would be immediately placed under a
lock and key. What he contended was, that be-
fore France could make ufe of any of her Colonial
polfeffions,fo as to be of any danger to this country,
the whole of her nrength as a maritime country
muff be changed. We might on a particular oc.
cation permit her fleet to fail for the attainment of
a particular object ; but it mull be impreffed on the
mind of every Gentleman, that without filch per-
miffion the fleet could not fail. He was, therefore,
much furprifed to hear a Right Hon. Gentleman,
who opened the debase on the preceding day, ex-
prefs himfelf in the manner he did concerning the
French expedition to St. Domingo. It had been
very truly obferved by the Noble Lord who fpoke
that evening, that it would be highly dangerous
to Coffer a colony of Blacks to grow up into inde-
pendence in the Weft Indies : fuch a free Repub-
lic, or rather free Anarchy, mull be the greaten
evil that could exit in the world, becaufc it was
an evil againft which human wifdom could take no
fort of precaution. But if any European Power
timid get the better of this exifting State in the
Well Indies, then the danger was over. This
mull only he done by force, and when that was
accomplifhed, precautions could be ufed. The cis.
cumnance of our fending a force to the Well In-
dies equal to that which the French had there,
mull do away all apprchenfions, if any could be
entertained, for the fecority of our Colonies.—
But as to that anarchy which the French were
about to fupprefs, he hoped, and he had reafon to
believe, that it would be done away much fooner
than tome people imagined. There was another
topic on which he would trouble the Houle with
an ohferration or two : It had been Rated by thole
Gentlemen who difapproved of the peace, that
our Sovereignty in India was likely to be difputed
by France. He would defy any man to thew in
what part of the world there were poffeffions
which (load in a greater Rate of fecurity than
thofc belonging to Great Britain in the Eaft In-
dies. The power of Tippoo was completely anni-
hilated, and there was was not a tingle French or
Dutch poffeffion along the Continent, that could
become formidable as an enemy in that country.
With regard to our retaining poffeffion of the
Cape of Good Hope, he did not fee the neceffity
of fuch a raeafure in the fame point of view with 1
a Right Honourable Gentleman, for whole talents
he had the higheft opinion (Mr. Dundas), and
who in other refpede had approved of the Defini-
tive Treaty. Thule Gentlemen who fpoke fo
much againft the ccffion of Malta, had afferted
that we pots: lied no port in the Mediterranean. In
contradidion to that affertion, it appeared that
before ever we took Malta, Lord Neifon found no
fuck difficulty at the time when he annihilated the
whole naval power of Prance : and when the great
and gallant Sir Ralph Abercrombie was prepar-
ing to make a defcent upon Egypt, he did not go
with his fleet to Malta, although that place was
at the time in our puffeffion, but carried the whole
of his army to a Turkint port; therefore the whole
object of the Nat Expedition was completely
carried into efeet without any at:finance derived
from Malta. The more he confictered tht fubjed
then before the Houle, and the more he viewed
the condnd of his Majefty's /*Miners in making
Peace, the more firmly was he perfuaded that it
was a Peace as good, as honourable, and as like-
ly to be permanent as any which, under the pre-
, fent circumitanees of Eurpe, could be obtained for
this country.
Lord Ter me fpoke in reply to die arguments
that had been urged on die preceding day by
Lord Hawkefbury, and by Lord Catilereagh on
the prefent evening. His obfervations were mollly
the Fame as had been previoully made by thole
who oppofed the Peace. He raid it was nor atone
fin the interval between the kr thig of the two
Treatlet, bat cyra Awe the ftUcatiott or the

Definitive Treaty, a fpirit of aggranditement had
;again difplayed itfelf in France. The cpsellion is
not, as had been improperly laid down, whether
; it was worth our while to have continued the War
any longer? but whether, in the fituation in which
the country was, with the great advantages the
had gained, the captures the had made, and the
high ground on which the Rood, the could not.
have obtained better terms ? We had neither ob-
tained indemnity for the part nor fecurity for the
future ; and if fo, the Government was not julti-
fied in making peace. When he fpoke of indem •
nity, he did not mean the reitnburfement of our
expeaces but Tome counterbalance for the raft ac-
ceffion of territory by France. So far from anv
indemnity being obtained for Portugal, her poi- I
legions were in danger of fallPag into the hands of I
France ; and fuch was the of eg of French influ-
ence at Lifbon, that according to an account he
had heard within the lall two hours, it appeared
that a great indignity had lately been offered to
Britifh fubjegs there ; that the Britifh (hips were
driven out of the Tagus; and that our Minifter at ;
the Court of Lifbon had fent home for inftrugions 1
how to aft. He wilhed to alk Minifters whether
thefe fags had been communicated to them? He
contended we had not gained any fecurity for the
future by this Peace ; for he would appeal to the
commercial part of the community, whofe fenti-
ments he was well acquainted with, whether the
Treaty of Peace fecured to them their commercial
advantages? The Noble Lord next adverted to the
fubjelt of the non-renewal of Treaties ; and ob-
ferved,that by not renewing the Treaty with Hol-
land, the flag of this Country was difhonoured.—
After fevejal other obfervations,he concluded with
obferving that mall of thole things he complained
of might Rill be got over by amicable negotiation.
The MaITEII of the Rotas faid, he rote to
make a few obfervations on one or two of the
points in difcuffion before the Houle. He should
confine himfelf to thefe, as it was impoffible to
embrace the whole fubjed in any reafonable con-
' pars, and as particular arrangements had been very
ably explained and defended by thofe who were
concerned in framing them. lb enter into details
would be quite unneceffary, as, if the peace was
unjnflifiable upon the principles of the Gentlemen
who had oppofed it, it was liable to objeflions
which no confideration of its conditions could re-
move. The Right Hon. Gentleman who opened
the debate (hewed much ingenuity in eftablifhing
pofitions which a great majority of the Houle
would have no inclination to difpute. But, fait'
Sir William Grant, I am utterly at a lots to fee
the conneftion between thefe opinions andthe merits
of the peace. Gentlemen teem to think they have
done enough when they prove that the power of
France is prodigious: and that tht liberties of Europe
are endangered,the y point out the lamentableeffeds
of this power; but do they (hew that h is produced by
the peace? Sir, it arifes from the events of the war.
Do I fay that it was unwire in this country to engage
in the war?? By no means. Bad as the fituation of
Europe at preterit is, it would have been infinitely
worfe had we remained ina&ive. The peace has
not taken from France this overgrown power ; no
peace could be hoped to make her refign it, and
no war could have wrelled it from her: It will
then be laid, " Yon were driven to make peace
from neceffity." In a certain fenfe we were.
With a wife man, what is prudent is necefFary.
When we could gain nothing by the war, there
was a moral necellity that we lhould make peace,
let our phyfical firength have been ever fo great.
If my Right Hon. kriend will thew me how we
can change what we all molt fincercly lament, I
will join my endeavours to his to urge exertion and
perfeverance. I will net a(k from him a demon-
firation of (tweets, nor even thofe high degrees of
probability which approach it. Let him (hew any
rational chance on a which a fober-headed man
would aft in common life and I immediately dole
with slim. But, Sir, he is Purely boundto point out
means which, if (kilfully employed, would be in
Come meafure adequate to the purpofe he recom-
mends. While we had allies, Sir, it was always
poflible that their fuccefles might have pot things
in a more favourable fituation. At the opening
of every campaign there was a chance and a hope
that the balance of Europe would be reftored. We
might Rill entertain this flattering profpett at the
time of the rejettion of Binaparte s firlt overture.
More favourable terms of peace might have been
obtained then, but perhaps we would not have
been '
unified in abandoning the chance of obtain.
ing all that we wifhed. In fuch a Rate of things it
was better to prefer war to loch a peace as this, or
' perhaps even to entering into a negotiation. It was
poilible that we might have obtained much more
than any treaty could have given us. Be that as
it may, there is no principle of any kind on which
we can carry en war for the Continent without a
Continental Ally. We can affift in the deliverance
of Europe, but we cannot achieve it. Mr. Burke
faid it was impoffible for ns to make any impref-
fion upon France, except in eonjunflion with the
community of Chriftendom.—This pofition is too
broad. All interefts that are Britilb we can affert,
and alert with effeet. With regard to others it
is unqueftionably true. We can calculate our
efforts ; we know that there can be no progreffion
in them ; after years of war we (could not have
advanced one Rep towards the emancipation of the
fubjugated States. What can we do unaffifted for
the independence of the Cifalpine Republic, or to
nt Spain from ceding Louifiana co France.
prevent
is that thefe objets are not great, but that
they are unattainable. The Noble Lord (Lord
Hawkefbury) after whofe manly, eloquent, and
unanfwerable defence of the Treaty, I ought to
make an apology for at all offering my fentiments,
urged the abfurdity of continuing the war to deter-
mine, whether Bonaparte 'hold& have a direft or
indireg influence ever the Italian Republic, when
we had contented to difeontinue it for the purpofe
of wtefting from France the Netherlands and Hol-
land? A Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. T. Gres-
vile} replied, that it was unfair to take articles ;
thus in detail, and that though not for any one,
yet for altogether, we might be well '
unified in
cnntinuarg the conteß. I admit the jullice of this.;
reaforring, as receding. Rep by Rep we might at laR
be obliged to give up Wu of our awn collages.

have feverely cenfured the conduct of Gentlemen
on the other fide of the Houle, who, affuming that
the point on which the negotiation broke off w"
the only thing in difpute, a arced, that we were ia.
tithing our good and treafure for a fpice iflaud. A
nation mutt draw a line in the fpirit of moderatii.n,
and then firmly adhere to it. If the negociatiiiiv
.!build afterwards break off, it will not be for any
particular fort or ilhind, but bccaufe no reafonable
terms can be procured, and you fight to avoid
dilhonbur. Thus has our Government aeled.
—lt has been laid, that though on account o:
late events, it might have been fcarcely juftif.-
able at once to break off the negotiation, yet
that we ougla to have inlifled on a compenfa-
Lion for the new acquifitions of the enemy. Sir, is
would auk whether the retention (,1 all the Minds
we have agreed to retlore woald form any balancr,
to the Continental power of France? They are
not things at all of the fiune fort, and the cine.
would not have beets in any degree diminilliee.:—
`France, from her conqnefts, gains dire& ilrengtli
—not through the medium of wealth. The Wel
.
India 'Rands produce weaknefs iultead of ftrength.
They do not increafe our means of attacking the
enemy, and they enfeeble by dividing our means
of defence. It was felt at Lille that the Weft
In-
dia Elands could not be converted to this impor.
cant purpofe. In that cafe, even upon my prin-
ciples, Government would he blameable. If they
were a counterbalance in our hands, it would be
moll criminal to refign them. But the abfurditv
is fo apparent, that it has never occurred to any
one to reafon in this ftrange manner. Sir, it sae
not material to retain a greater number of our
conquefts. If you had the power, you ought nit
to chufe to prevent France from having a larae
commerce to diftant countries. This is-the ottle
hold we have upon her. Thus alone peace is hn
intereft, and we are a terror to her. lam really
anxious to know, Sir, what plan of operations.
had thefe Gentlemen been in power, thv mea
to have purfued. As yet we have heard. nothi.,g '
of this kind even hinted at. We have been to'd
of nothing more definite than " Chance of Events."
Without any profpea of fuccefs, we thould con-
tinue the war merely for the purpole of not tieing
at peace. If this unknown event Ihould not hap. .
pen loon, we may be fo much exhaufted, as not
to be able to take advantage of it. Suppose, Sir,
that it fhould never happen. We are reduced to
make peace at laft on worfe terms than the prefent,
as with worfe means we could not negotiate but
wi:h impaired effect. There are fume Gentlemen
oppofite, who will fay you have made peace wife.
ly, becaufe you have abandoned the objeft of
war. The °Nee of the war has too often, Sir,
been purpofely confounded with the means of at-
taining that object. We witted to provide for our
own fafety tram the immediate danger of French
principles, and French power, and to preferve, if
poffible, the balance of power on the continent, a
matter in which our fafety was materially though
indirectly concerned. Can it be Paid that we have
failed in the firft Sir, we are atfembled here to-
day, after a revolution which threatened our ex-
iftence, and which has elated the deltruftion qt.
almoft all the furroundiug nations, debating ac-
cording to ancient forms, not concerning the loges
we have fuftalned, not concerning ruined com-
merce, or curtailed dominion, but whether the ad. ---
ditions to our territory are fo great as frqns our.
fplendid victories we were entitled to e wee (arm:
app/aufe.) In the other object of Paving Europe, we
have certainly failed,but no difgrace can attach to
the failure, as it is What, without the affillance of
Europe, ie.. would have been madnefs to have at-
tempted. We cannot fee there things withont regret,
but..happilY; this regret is not embittered by the
thought that we have left any thing undone to pre- •
vent diem. However,the profpeft is not on all fides
equally gloomy; at one time our fears of French
power were al:ill:it:bed in terror of the defolating e
tees ofFreneh principles. Mr. Burke obferved,that
it would be better to be conquered by any other
nation than to have the French as neighbours.—
(The Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman
here quoted the well known paffage, where Mr.
Burke reprefcnts the French as having made a
breach with the community of Europe, on pur-
pole to make all mankind fulnuit to their dominion.
&c.) —lt is fotne confolation. Sir, that France
(hews a fdifpolition to re-enter the pale of deltic,
fociety. She is returning to order, to religion, and
right principles, as fall I!; can reafonably be es.
expected ; much has been done during the loft two
years and a half, and a greater progrcfs Rill would
probably have been made, had the career of war
doled at an earlier period. I have heard it fated,
that though Bonaparte was the foe of jacobiniftu
in France, he was its friend in England. If he
shall extirpate jacobinifin in Fraece, whatever hie
deferts in other things may be, here he will prove
himfeif a benefactor of the human race. When
the fatal !butte from which it originally flowed is
dried up, it may be hoped that it will for ever dif-
appear, and that the world will recover from its
ravages. Sir, I cannot believe that Bonaparte is
animated with that implacable fpirit towards this
country. To purfue a rival with unceafing hatred
and blind; rage often ends in Pelf-deftrueion. It
is clearly his interest that jacobinifm filmid be
every where crufhed. If it fiourifhes in England.
neither France nor any other country in Europe
will be, tranquil. The pride of Jacobins (not the
lead diftinguifhed feature in its character) smith".
be intereaed above all to re-ellablifh its throne in
its original dominion. Bonaparte ought to with
with eagernefs that it may be obliterated from the
earth, and that its principles and modes of aflion
may be forgotten for ever. While a veftige of it
remains, his prefent Government mutt be infecure,
and any other Government he mat defire to eta-
blifh. The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman
proceeded next to confider the value of Louifiana.
From the obfervations of the Hon. General,
evidently ufelefs as a colony; and though it was in
the polreffion of France for 6o years, he did rot
believe that during all that period they had gained
or we had 101 l a6fhing smack the more. During
the negotiations of 1761, when the country seat
in a fituation to dilate terms of peace to France.
Mr. Pitt (not a man unacquainted with the sire.
teas of England, or apt to neglat them) no.=:

once propofed to her to evacuate this putteMon.
The Americans were injured. How could we be
blamed for this ? We had not found fault with
the fame arrangements when America was our
own. Although the treaty of Utrecht had been
renewed, it would not have touched this cafe, ei.
they in its letter or its fpirit. After a few more ob.
fervations upon this point,he proceeded topoint out
the effeft of the non-renewal of treaties. Upon this
point, laid he, I have heard pofitions laid down
which fill me with aftonifhment. Thofe Right
lion. Gentlemen who profefs to with for an ami-
cable arrangement, feem labouring to prevent it.
Before they have any experience of the difpofitions
of France, they come forward and Rate claims
the is likely to advance, which they themfelves
i onotioce deftitute of all foundation. They call
ior p rovifions, which by the fame arguments might
Le p; (iced completely nugatory. If the French
:.re fo ambitious, and to unprincipled as to difturb
our eftablifhed rights, in violation of all reafon,
common fenfe, :old good faith, would not the
Treaty, about which they clamour, be a piece of
waße paper? If more particular Ripulations were
immediately neeelfary, no Treaty ought ever to
have been concluded. We fhould either have re-
mained at war, or we fhnuld now thew the con-
fidence becoming a Rate of peace. Confidence
begets confidence, and the fufpicion of bad in.
tentions often creates them. If we really do
harbour flifpicions, it is mach better to conceal
them. We juftly reproached the Diretors with
always alking us for our terms, and Rill accufing
us of intincerity. Surely this harfh irritating lan-
guagz would not tend to render as more fincere.
—I am not at all Pure of the ground on which the
praaire reps of the renewal of ancient treaties. I
would not treat lightly an ufage which has pre.
trailed long among great and enlightened nations.
I am willing to fuppufe that there is Come reafon
fir it, which I have not penetration to difcover.
But I confefs myfelf much at a lofs, as in former
times, even dick treaties contained contradictory
(limitations, and often had no objet on which they
could operate. lam not aftonithed that what is
commonly known by the Treaty of Wefiphalia is
alo'ays willingly renewed by France. This is no-
thing more than brufhingoffthe dull from a monu-
ment to her glory. She then (truck a medal reprefent.
ing the Grand Monarque with a pair of fcales in his
hind, and the Imperial Crown in one fcale, and the
Crowns of the Princes of Germany in the other.—
She has atiumed ever fince the right of trimming
tom, and certainly is furnilhed with a pretext for
aairg as arbiter of Germany. From the language
of thefe Honourable Gentlemen one would have
lippefed,thatin no inflance ancientitreaties had not
been i enewed, and that the inevitable confequence
of the omiflion mull be throwing the whole world in-
to confufion. The praiftice, however, hasbeenby no
means fo uniform. At Breda, I believe, there was
no renewal of former treaties ; at Ryfwick I be.
lieve there was no renewal of former treaties; at
Utrecht I believe there was no renewal of former
treaties. Yet, Sir, Europe fubllfted, the law of
nations kept its ground, and plaice did not for
ever take leave el the earth. The triple alliance
of 1717, and the quadruple alliance of 1718,
were two of the treaties generally renewed. Up-
on what fuhjeas can they now take effea ? In
feveral we have guaranteed the Crown of France
to the I lonfe of Bourbon: With what grace would
we propofe the renewal of thefe to the Republic
one and bolivifible ? You mutt at leatt have the
mortification to confirm to France, direaly and
esprefsly, St. Domingo, Louifiana, and all her
numberlefs acquifitions in Europe. This Cutely is
not a thing you would go out of your way to do.
You would renew treaties merely for the purpore
of functioning the breach of them! This is furely
not the belt way to obtain an obfervance of folcmn
Ripulations for the future. It may be laid, that
fume particular articles fliould have been extra red
from the old treaties, and inferted in the treaty of
Amien,. This may be very true, and the peace
of Europe might thus have been better provided
for; but this is quite a different accufation, and
when it is brought forward diftinaly, we than be
ready to meet it. Sir, it is not tine that every
treaty, which k not renewed at the end of a war,
falls completely to the ground. Many treaties,
when once exctuted, are funai old°, and it is no
longer ofeonfequence what becomes of them. When
a ceffion is (nice made tome, it becomes part of my
dominion, and is exatflly the fame as if it had be-
longed to me from time immemorial. There is not
the fmallett difference between that and my other
territories. If the State to whom it belonged goes to
war with me, it may be attacked and re-conquered,
but it does not revert back to that State upon the
conchifion of Peace. A King cannot fay—" I give
• ar territory to-day, and to-morrow go to war and
hiy it is mine again." To apply this to the point
on which fo much has been laid, viz.—our right to
cut logwood in the Bay of Honduras—We did not
teen drive that right from Treaty: we had Come-
-low cr other been long in poffeffion of it. The
words ufed are, that " Spain (hall offer us no mo-
leftation," not that fhe grants or blows. We oc-
cupied this ditiria before the war—we occupy it
Rill, and we have as good a right to it as to any
part of the ifland of Jamaica. The language of the
Right Hon. Gentleman and his friends, with re-
gard to the Eat} Indies, amaze moll of all. They
profefs not to have the fmalleft fhadow of a doubt
cwicerningour rights,and being agreed among our-
Pees, we are debating whether we may not have a
fibjea of debate ? They allow that France mull
make application to us, yet they fay no, go you to
Vrance, and Rate that there are certain abfurd
ci link oliich they, aaiog againft all reafonandgood
faith, might fet up, and humbly implore that they
would he gracioufly pleafcd to relinquifh them.
This i; the molt complete inverfion of the natural
mod.: of proceeding. Would they believe their
dem, to be fo groundlefs when you (hewed fuch
Riivety to get rid of them ? Would they not de-
ll's:al time important facrifice as the price of their
IIa:-;aiefeerce ? But the Definitive Treaty amply
11 rit',:::, f.r the rellitution of the faaories. If
Icr.ia.a. were difpoled to ftretch the article as far as

, • - • ........ ,pot
Ie! kv)rld pollibly go, the utmoft (he could demand,
w' ..23 be the advantages the enjoyed under
II •.: c,ttveation of 1737. The molt liberal mean-

idg or fa.VsrLv mutt be as they were before
breaking ont of the war. I have heard of many
difputes whether reftitutions were made in the
fame Rate as the places were in before the war? But
in my reading I have never met with a queffion
like this : whether France might not be allowed to
mount up through the whole procefs of ages to fee
whether, at tome infinitely remote period, thefe
faCtories did not enjoy greater privileges? At this
rate they are in a better fituation than if they had
never been conquered. Our fuccefs in taking them
was to be deplored, and our poffellions in India
would have been more fecure had they never come
into our !lanais. But I fuppofe, Sir, thefe Gentle-
men only with to throw diferedit upon the pre-
tenfions which, without any reafon, they flip-
pore France may let up. According to this fyf-
tem of diplomacy, Sir, every Treaty mutt be a
violence. Nothing mutt be omitted which the molt
lively and the molt abfurd imagination can con-
ceive to come into difpute between the two nations.
A negociator mull carry along with him as one
of his fuite a perfon with a difturbed mind, whofe
duty it will be to confider what claims the oppofite
party may poffibly let up, however contrary to the
letter and fpirit of the Treaty, and whole ravings
mull afterwards be reduced into a diplomatic form.
Sir, the Addrefs moved by the Noble Lord,
has my molt cordial concurrence: it Teems to me
to Rate the feelings and fentiments with which we
ought to be animated. I mull that the principles
on which we have aned on this memorable OCCA
lion will juflify us to ourfelves and to pofterity.
Let us purfite them ; and while we exprefs our
loyalty at the return of peace, alfure his Majelty
that we will rapport him in his efforts to reprefs
all encroachments on our rights commercial, ma-
ritime, and colonial. We (hall thus preferve the
bleffings of tranquillity, or if we should be forced
once more to draw the fword in defence of our in-
dependence and our honour, we (hall (hew the
fame fpirit and magnanimity which has carried us
through this long and awful (lruggle.
Dr. LAWRENCE entered at much length into the
merits of the Definitive Treaty. In anfwer to an
obfervation from the Mailer of the Rolls, lie faid,
that the Addrefs moved by his Right Hon. Friend
(Mr. Windham), went by no means to cenfure the
Minifters who had concluded the Treaty, but to
implore his Majelly to take the neceffary ftcps to
guard againft the evil confequences likely to refult
from that meafrire. He inlifted that the Defini-
tive Treaty was not ftriCily founded on the bails
of the Preliminaries, and feverely condemned molt
of the articles, particularly thofe which relate to
Portugal, Malta, and the Prince of Orange. He
went over the fame ground nearly with Mr. T.
Grenville, and infilled, that, by neglating to have
former treaties renewed, his Majefty's Minifters
had negleCted, in a great degree, the interefts not
only of Europe in general, but of England in par-
ticular. By making fuch extenfive conceffions to
France; we had refigned many of the fources of
our own greatnefs ; and it was admitted, that the
Peace, which had been procured at to high a price,
could by no means be confidered as fecure. While
we were thus trying the experiment of peace, we
mutt, of natural confequence, experience all the in-
conveniencies of war. The French, in the mean
time, would do every thing in their power to dif-
trefs and ruin our commerce, and the more effec.
tually to enable them to do this, they were about
to eftablifh a Navigation Aa of their own. This
idea of the enemy might be ridiculed ; but it (hoold
be recolleeted, that when the Englifh Navigation
AR took place, it was in like manner laughed at
both by France and Holland, though it lhortly
proved of the higlieft detriment to the latter. He
condemned the conduit which had been adopted
refpeaing the colonies to he ceded to France, the
Englifh Settlers in which would be materially in-
jured, if not effectually ruined. The Learned Doc-
tor entered into a long ftring of arguments in re-
ply to the different parts of the fpeech of the Mat-
ter of the Rolls, and concluded by giving his
hearty affent to the original Addrefs, as moved by
Mr. Windham.

Mr. BOND laid, that it was neceffary to draw
alide the veil which teemed to hang over this quef-
tion, and to let it be fairly underftood, that thofe
who railed at the peace meant, in fact, a vote of
cenfitre on the Minifters by whom it had bees con-
cluded. It was necefr.ul for thefe perfons, how-
ever, to thew by what art, or what addrefs, better
terms could have been obtained. It was eafy for
men in their clofets to fuggeft difficulties ; but they
should make allowances tor the embarraffed &tui-
tion of negociators, and for the relative pofition of
the country. It was dangerous, in his opinion, to
provoke an hoftilc fpirit in the nation, when it was
certainly undcrftood that the power of Great Bri-
tain was not of ittslf fufficient to maintain the ba-
lance of Europe.
Colonel FLJt.LARTON (poke in favour of the Ad-
drefs.

Mr. WM. WYNNK (aid he felt the importance
of the facrifices the country had been obliged to 1,
make in order to obtain peace, but Rill more fo,
the obfervance of its national faith. He trufted it
would be ftrialy adhered to.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excl.;aura (aid, that
at that late hour of the night he fhould dwell on
the points on which he had to (peak as little as
poffible. If any thing could diminifh the regret
he felt, it was the confiderations urged by his
Learned Friend, that after a war attended with
Co much concern to this country, we were now de-
bating whether we fhould conclude a Definitive
Treaty or not? The tendency of all the arguments
urged on the other fide of the Houfe, he conten-
ded were evidently to cenfure thole who had ad-
vifed his Majefty to make peace. In the language
of the Mover of the motion, he Paid, he traced
the genuine principles which had actuated the
Hon. Gentleman during the war, who had wifbed
it to be carried on againft the morals and man-
ners of France ; and who condemned the Peace,
before he !mew the terms on which it was
concluded, as the death-blow to the profprrity
of the Country. Others there were who con-
ceived that this Peace was not fuch as the coun-
try had a right to expe.d, but who did not in their
arguments go to the full extent of the fubjea.—
,—No man could entertain a greater rafpea than

he did for the Honourable Gentlemen on the
other fide of the Houle, hut he conceived that
on their avowed principles, it would have been al-
together impoffible to make a Peace; and that
their oppofition to the one concluded, was cal-
culated to lead to a renewal of the ware 'He
Mould not then enter into the queflion, whether
the Definitive Treaty was or was not entitled
to the approbation of the Houle' He argued
that the whole objeds aionld be takes together ;
but that the oppofers of the Peace had made their
attack 'piece-meal and in detail. Still, he faid,
Minifters made their defence, and he would on-
ly ark, taking the whole queftion collettivOy,
whether it was not right to advife his fvfajefty to
make Peace ? He admitted the defects and omif-
fions complained of in the Definitive Treaty, as
well as the difference between that and the Preli-
minary Articles. With refped to Louifiana being
dangerous to Canada, he recolleded both in pot-
feffion of France in 176 z, at which time Great
Britain had large poffeffions in that quarter, and
was more than a match for France. The ceffion
of Louifiana had been reprefented as a dangerous
compromife of our commercial interefls. He ap-
prehended the Hon. Gentleman did not know,
that in Lonifiana not a fhip of the line could an-
chor without taking her guns out ; and with re-
fpe. to danger, for many years fince the time
that (hips have been coppered, they were accuf-
tomed to go through the windward paffage.—
The danger, if any, was from Trinidad, and
there we had not met with any annoyance. He
allowed that the Definitive Treaty differed in five
points from the Preliminary Articles, viz. New-
foundland, the Prifoners, Portugal, Malta, and
the Cape, but from the two latter alone, all the
danger, if any, could arrive. The Hon. Gentle.
man, after explaining the circuttillances of the
Treaty of Badajos, laid he was fatisfied that the
meafures adopted with refped to the peace were
on the whole advifable, and that he had never be-
flowed on it falfe colours, as he had always been
of opinion there was no fafety or firength for a
Minifter without hononr. He could only fay, that
had the negotiation failed, it was his fin with to
lay before the Houle every circumstance conned
ed with it ; and he mull have unworthy views, if
he, or any of his Majefty's Minillers, had in the
courfe of their proceedings done any thing to
tarnilh the honour of the country. He maintained
that they had at all times fupported a tone of firm.
nefs towards France, and when the time fhould ar•
rive that there papers thonld be produced, they
would prove his affertion. He could not help ex-
preffing his altonilhment that the arguments which
had been urged, have not operated on the mind
of the Hon. Gentleman. He took a profpedive view
of the fituation of the Continent of Europe, and the
refources of this country ; and raid that he prayed
heartily for the continuance of the Peace; that
France might aid with wifdom and moderation to-
wards us ; and that by ceconomizing our refources,
we would ever be ready to defend our rights and
privileges, if the incroaching power of France
ihould be made manifeff towards us. He
next adverted to the turn the Debates had' taken,
and concluded by obferving, that fuch was the
Rate of this Country as to its refources, that
while it was true to itfelf it had nothing to fear.
The amendment, as moved by Lord Hawkef
bury, was then read from the chair. It was ver-
bally as follows :

"That an humble addicts be prefented to his Nfajeity to re-
turn to his Majefty. the Thanks of the Houle for having been
gracioully pleated to communicate to them the Definitive Trea-
ty of Peace, to reprefent to his Majefty, that we have already
declared our full approbation of the Preliminary Articles of
Peace, which, by his Majefty's command, were laid before
this lloufe, and we are fatisfied that his Majefty has, on the
whole, wifely confulted the interefts of his people is having
concluded a Definitive Treaty, founded on the bads of thefe
Preliminaries. That although we deeply lament the calamitous
events which have taken place on the Continent of Europe in
the comic of the war, we cannot but retied with the utmoft
fatisfadion, that the wild and deftrudive defigns with which
' this country was threatened at its commencement, have been
effectually fruftrated. That his Majefty's Dominions have
not only been preferved entire, but valuable and important ac-
quifitlons have been annexed to them ; that our commercial
and maritime fuperiority have been maintained and Ma)
proved, and that we continue in the confirmed polls!".
flints of thefe means of exertion which the experience of
the late conteft has proved more than ever to be equal,
even anddft the new and unexampled difficulties of other
nations of Europe, to maintain the independence and af-
fect the honour of this country; that Imprelfed with thefe
fentiments, we are on our parts earncftly folicitous to cultivate
and improve the bleffings of peace, and to concur in fuels mea-
fures as his Majefty in his wifdom (hall judge to be belt calcu-
lated to prevent ow. fions of mifunderftanding with foreign
Powers ; that we rely on his Majefty's known difpofition to
adhere with the molt fcrupulous fidelity to his engagements ;
bat that we entertain at the fame time a perfect confidence that
his Majefty will not fail to employ that vigilance and attention
which the prefent Grunion of Europe demands ; and above all,
that his Majefty will be uniformly determined and prepared
to defend againft every encroachment, the great fourees of the
wealth, commerce, and naval power of the Empire. That we
are fully perfuaded his Majefty's faithful fubjeds will at all
dines be ready to fupport the honour of his Majefty's Crown,
and the rights, laws, and liberties of th..tir Country, with the
fame zeal, energy, and fortitude which they have invariably ma-
nifefted during the war, now happily brought to a conclufion."

Mr. SHERIDAN rofe, he faid, in confequence
of having given notice of his intention of moving
an additional amendment to the addrefs propofed.
He thould not go at length into the variety of
arguments which had been offered in the courfe of
the debate, nor would he detain the Houfe for
any length of time. There should be this fingu-
larity in his profeffions, that he would keep his word,
and not as molt of the other Gentlemen had done,
in the courfe of the evening, make a long fpecch,
after having promifed a (port one. The ground he
(hould take would be one which lie feared would be
popular only with refped to a very (mall part of the
Houfe, for in the prefent ftrange (late of things,
nothing was more Orange than the (late of parties—
He then proceeded to comment on the flrange (late
of parties in the Houfe, he believed there were
eleven or thirteen different parties, nay it was very
likely that there we: a more.—What he had to
offer would have the thisfortune to which he was
fo much accuftonted, hut which lie could not, on
that account, ceafe to lament, that it would be
in unifon'vrith the fentiments but of a very (snail
party in the Houfe, but whofe predictions it now
appeared were fully verified, whore views were
fully juftified, and the neglect of whole counlels
att4 warnings had at left led to a Rate of thins,

and totheemichtfiondapeaetwhichthnftgiVepalS
to every Eng}Amen who felt fur the honour and the
interelts of the country. He Paid he could by no
means concur In any vote of cenfure, direet or im-
plied, on the peace, for he firmly believed that in
the circumftances of the country, no better peace
VMS to be expo led. He fupported the peace, not
becaufe be confidered it as honourable or fare, but
becaufe the nation had been left in fuch a Date by
the late Minifters as made it impolfible for the pre-
fent Minifters to condua the negotiation to any
happier conclufion. Approving the peace on
there grounds, he thanked Mr. Windham and his
friends for expofing its terms as they had done.—
It was fit that the country thould know its real
danger, becaufe then it would be led to adopt
or approve the precautions neceffary to fafety.—
Eion. Gentleman, Mr. Dundas, had yeller-
day fpoken freely againft the Peace, though to-
day he had thought proper to fay nothing, and
even his proxies had likcwife been more con-
ciliatory. That Right Honourable Gentleman
had imputed to Mr. Vsrincilsam and his Friends,
that, like thofe who cenfured the American peace.
their only objea was to get into the places of
thole they oppored ; but he could not believe
that they entertained loch motives. It was cu.
rious, however, that truth came nut at Taft :—the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had avowed his be-
lief that thole Members of the Cabinet who during
the war had had fo leading an influence, had all
along entertained futh principles as made it impot:
fible that they thould ever concur in any peace
whatever with the French Republic. But was not
this, (raid Mr. S) what we have laid at every period
of the conteft and on every attempt to negotiate ?
The Chancellor of the Exchequer laid too, that we
ought to flop and.hufband our refources. Nothing
could be more jufi, but were there not periods
when this argument would have been fully as
good ? If it was wife to fave our refonrces now,
would it not have been wile to have refereed them
when they were hill more entire ? Thole who
thought fo could not approve the rejetion of Bo-
naparte's overtures in itioo, and he wiffied to
know whether the Right Honourable Gentleman
who generally defended all the meafures of his pre•
deceffors adually did approve that rejedion ?
Thofe who now argued for referving our means
would find it no eafy thing on that ground to
avoid the conclution —that every drop of blood fpilt
and every Milling fpent, fince that period, were
wantonly wafted. We wanted repore, it was faid ;
we had accumulated debt; but why was our repofe
fo long delayed ? Why was our debt fo unnece
farily accumulated ? the fituation of things
amidft fo much power as France has acquired, Inch
ambition as the has 'hewn, he agreed that a flout
and vigorous ellablifhment thould be kept
Split into parties we are indeed; but who doubts
that every party will, heart and hand, unite to
defend and preferve out effiential interefts. It was
a pity, indeed, that in a crifis like this, there was
not a snore impofing and deeifive union—a union
above all petty difputes. There ought to be Inch
a unanimity difplayed as would thew the French
that however their encroachments might foratime
be endured, yet if perfevered in, they would ionic
an ardent, an irrefiflible fpirit in this count?y to
oppofe them. It was faid that our honour had
been •maintained in the negotiation, but that
would depend not on the magnitude of an objeA,
but on the tone and manner in which it was ad-
hered to or abandoned. A tingle- point, if given
up to an enemy that imperioufly Willed upon it,
might be a facrifice of honour.
' Mr Sheridan then went over the different
Rrounds and pretences of war—Holland, Brabant,
eligion, Social Order, Indemnity for the Palt,
Security for the future ; and he (hewed that nst
one tingle objca which had at various times bees
held forth, had aaually been gained by the Pea Ce.
—We had fpent 3c0,0c0,0001. fterling, and
200,000 lives too, and after all were contented to
obtain fuch a treaty as this. Could it be laid that
our acquifitions of Ceylon andTrinadad were corn-
penfauons ? If fo, they ought to be in future de-
fignated by names defcriptive of the circumftances
and nature of the acquifition. The one, for in-
ftance, ought to be called Security /fiend, the other
Indemnity /And. Paffing to 'the fiate of the Con-
tinent, he fliewed how alarming was the power
of France, and when he heard the Chancellor
of the Exchequer fay, that he entertained no anxi-
ety on the comparifon of the power of England
with that of France, he was more inclined to ad•
mire his courage than his political wifdom and Caga-
city. He commented with much humour on the
argument, that Bonaparte had become the extir-
pator of Jacobinifm. The child and champion of
Jacobinifm had now turned his arms againft his
mother. True it was that Bonaparte, after having
ferved his turn with Jacobinifm, would turn againft
that which he feared might turn againft him I
But what was Boaaparte's reformation ! How
had "he ailed pardon of GOD and Man !" He
had asked pardon of GOD, not by redreffing the
wrongs and relieving the claire:les of fuffering
piety, but by making a tool of Goo's Vicegerent
—by recalling, with the &laths of curates, fuch
of the old clergy as were bafe enough to be-
come his fworn (pies and informers againfl what-
ever yet remained of ancient loyalty.—How had
he asked pardon of Man ? Was it by fpread•
ing his iron rule over the faireft part of Eu-
rope? Was it by threatening tie honeft, the philo-
fophic, the learned, the religions, the hofrits !de
Swift, with even extinaion of their country, leaf
forfoath, their difurtiers fhotild carry havock and
defolation into furronnding countries ? If fuch
be his forms of alking pardon of Can and man,
I heartily pray that we may be delivered Earn
his penitence and piety. But it teems that by giv-
ing back all the colonies of France, we acquire a
new hold of Bonaparte, and make him a very-quiet
and peaceable neighbour. It is true (lays the
Right Hon. Gentleman), the Chief Confal had a
military edneation, and has been fomewhat roej,
but clap him behind a counter, and he will become
the 66101 perfon in the univerfel So upon this
argument the ceflion of colonies is no facrifice se
all. It is a molt cunning hint for Bonaparte, and
the has fallen into the trap. Foolik fay they, to
pink of fighting with fuch a alas : make a Welt