Star.
London, England, 1806-07-12 00:00:00

Treater, Ind that net 101 l be, bat one deptitedbg
bins..neiOt thus dicta. of the mituel, and lodge
in any plate, even beyoul the coeqsul df the Tree-
Curer ; he found not Any that the ' alligoed balances
might be difpofed of is this 11111111116 but moo when
another objet was in view, and when it appeared
that that motive of the Treallorer tithe Navy, or his
Deputy. was to snake ore of die public money fur
their own profit and advantage, we Rill found from
tbefc decifiuns, that (itch practices were oloinitbiesa-
Me by law, and that the parties were not
'on information or indictment. He will's'
radrweat
could, even in this fasts, have brought
a Bill for the Regulation of the office of Treat
of the Nev., and the greater feeuritv of th
lie. As that, however, could not conveniently be
done, he trolled that early in the next feffion his
Right Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Sheridan) would
introduce loch a Bill, or if he did not, be hienfelf
would do it; and be fincerely hoped that his Right
Honoured. Friend would focceed better in a eseafure
for the regulation of his own office than his Noble
Predeceffor had done ( &an Isar, hear!). The great
difficulty he thould feel, he protefied, would be to
find words more firms than thous which had been i
employed in the A& of the as& He hoped. how.-,
vet, that his Right Honolusbie Friend'would snake
the words Co thong and fo clear, the fads Co perfpi•
coons and defined, and the enaernent fo plata and
obvious, that it would be impoffible that the prowl.
hoes ef his Bill could be mikonceived, or militates.
lb vsedeft flawing that this Houfe do, early.
tlittlioment=telOalrat into confideration the A& of
tbe asta of OOP. lriL Chap. 35, relative to the revs.
lotion of the Glee of Treafurer of the Navy. On
the fuggeßion of the Speaker, he alto moved that the
Report of the Committee appointed to infpett the
Lords journals fisould be entered as read.
I Mr. LEICESTER role, not with any intention to
(Nett to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman, but
becaufe Come things which be laid appeared to him Co I
extraordinary. that be could not pats them over
without Come obfervations. He teemed to have fop
pored that the Learned Judges bad determined that
embezzling the public money was no offence
sable by law. The Judges had determined no foch
thing.
[Here Mr. WHITBREAD, by permiffion of the
Houle rofe, and read the following citrate from the
Journals of the Lords :--
Whether It was lawful for the Treater& of the Navy. bereft
tbc paling of the Aft of at Glow e. 3t, aad eases efyis.
eienf when, bra
td,
wanrant frau his Massy his Nary es hub True.
as fora af was suipwriwil bike kei
fees, and other prelk. asdi owehrooo. 0 *Of say 122
=l,Wayoulial to Itim for Navy Swill... ea orry odoir
er, pelt& or private, without sap& asittiodty it
doing 1 sad whether tech application by Thane wadi
have kern a astittamestr, or pentad& by latermattes or in.
diEtasoott
The Lord Chief Jußice of the Court of COllOllO,
Pleas delivered the unanimous opinion of the Judges
upon the (aid Qneßion
That it was not tin awrtit for the Treat of the Ifiloy,,=.
itis wet at ss George 111. c. 31, although alter the Wolieno
In the yeallioo, to apply any Cum of mosey hoprelbal
Wavy 'mom. to other mks pablk or private, without
thorny for fo doing, foes to mufti= s a soltdesocasstalli
by Information or Indlttmeat
and gave his reafons.)
Mr. LEICESTER In continuatioo, obferved, the"
be was perfectly aware of that; but then that weasel
embezzlement. The opinion only went fo far as to
fay, that a temporary tire of the public money by io-
dividuals in office, was not an offence cognizable by
law ; and every one knew, who was at all acquainted
with the courfe of bufinefs for theft lag 3o years, that
this had never been confideredpis a public offence.--
Where was the differeoce between the cafe of the IoIC
Lord Holland and fuch individuals ? The Honoura-
ble Gentleman had Paid. that the Judges had gireo
It as their opinion, that money might by law be drawn
from the Bank, and depofited elfewhere, for private
purpofes. They had laid no (Itch thing. They had
only Paid, that it was not illegal to draw money from
the Bank, Molt& for naval fervice. Whether after-
, wards the trult mould be abofed was a quite different
thing, and one which they confidered themfelvea as
having nothing to do with. The Gentlemen on the
other fide. therefore, feemed to have milconceived
them, and to blend the liberty of taking out the mo.
ney with the emoluments made by Trotter.
Mr. WHITBREAD denied, that he had ufed die
word embezzlement in his Ratement, or had implied
that the money was not replaced ; but he contended,
that Come new regulation was abfolutely aeceffory•
or the prefeot Treafurer of the Navy would be at B.
betty (he knew, however. that he would not ufe that
liberty) of allowing Mr. Scott, his Paymaßer, to fae•
culate with the public balances for his own privets
advantage.
Mr. K. DUNDAS raid, it was not fair in the Ho-
nourable Member to prefume that their Lordlhips
determined upon this decifion of the Judges. Lord
Melville never did admit, that it was with his know-
ledge or privity that the money had been drawn free
the Bank for the purpnfe‘ of private emolument.
Mr. SHERIDAN conceived, that it was clearly I
contrary both to the fpirit and the meaning of the
At, that the Paymafter fhould draw for thole balan-
ces, and lodge them at his private Banker's. He did
set fee that it was neceffary for a tingle guinea of
thole balances to be in the hands of the Paymaller,
and be fhould confider it criminal in his Pay mailer to
a& in a fimilar manner, whatever might be the COD.
Ibs/lion of the esilling law.
Mr. PERCIVAL threw out for the confideration
of Gentlemen who propofed to bring in a Bill upon
this fubjee, whether. if the arrangement were en•
seed, fuch as the Right Hon. Gentleman had jut
defcribed, the Sub-accountants might not be open to
the fame objeelions which were applied to the Pay.
mailer ? that is, whether thole Sub•accountantt
might not be open to a fimilar abufc of the public
money ?
Mr. WHITBREAD thought fuch a confequence
improbable. It was to be recollefted that the Sub-
accountants on the trial refuted to withdraw the
public money from the Bank at the particular in.
Rance of Trotter, and by no means in courequence
of their own with, for it appeared that inconvenien-
cies refulted to them from the transfer.
Mr. SHERIDAN could not admit that the cafe,
with regard to the Sub-accountants could ever be
fubjet to the fame objeftions as thofe which applied
to the Paymafter. It was obvious that they could
quitenot be Co t othe
pra
ai
abi
cam e extent.
fo to
walcid
h t
hen
seuebd h
a,
cceoti
ihnotuas—
gnht it
to to ettablifh 3 check between the Bank Diredors

- -
and the Navy Pay Office, as to dete& any drawing
of money not needier,' for, and immediately applied
to s Naval purpofe ; and, fhou)d fuch a thing appeas
on the put of any Sub-accountant, he bad no be&a-
tion in raying that he fhould feel it his duty on the
inAant to difmifs him.
Mr. PERCIVAL explained.
Mr. FULLER, adverting to a notice of a motion
which he had given Come time finee, relative to
the expecte% incurred by Lord Melville during his
late trial, Bated, that in confequence of the declara-
tion of the Noble Lord's fan, that no delay having
occurred in preparing for the trial, or in its fubfequent
conduttoso more expenfe had occurred to the Noble
Lord than if the trial had taken place in the chamber
of Parliament, he was induced to wave his intended
motion.

VORTIIIIII measles.
Mr. R. DUNDAS alked whether it was the inten-
tion of the Noble Lewd= the Magary Bench to bring
forward the propofition refpeeing the Northern Me-
ries which he bad mentioned in the early part of the
Seffions
Lord TEMPLE anfwered, that the mature re-
ferred to required more confideration than be bad
been yet able twgive it. and therefore he did not
mean to bring it forward in the court* of the prefent
Seffions.
Mr. HUSKISSON yielding to the preffure of the
important bufinefs which flood for this evening, pod-
,
polled till Monday, his propofed Refolutions upon
theitthjerit of Finance.
snowmen atsowaaces TO TNT TOTAL TANILT.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQLJEE.
moved. that the Bill be now read a fecund time. •
Colonel WOOD profeffed the highed rdpea for the
Noble Lord, and a fincere belief that he withed as much
as poffible to economise the refources of the country.
—aAt a time of fuel% great preffure as the preterit,
he thought that if there Royal Perfonages had really
faired a little like other people from the deareefa of
the times, it would have been better for them to have
fribmitted to it, than to let this claim be brought for-
ward in their names. Indeed of this perpetual inerede
of expenfe, he thought retrenchments ought to have
been made. There were Tome of the Princes whore
incomes were inferior to the reR. The Dukes of CIA•
rence and Suffer might perhaps complain with radon
of their incomes bane limited, but the raft of the
Princes bad confiderablt emoluments from their regi-
ments and military commands. This, be confiderede
ought to be taken into the account.
Mr. W. SMITH confidered that his Royal High.
nets the Duke of York was quite right in not claiming
any addition to his allowance, and that the other
emoluments which the younger branches of the Royal
Family polfeffed ought to have been taken into the
account. The great Lord Bacon had Paid that po-
verty was often Usourable s he &mild confider that
at the prim times, when the nation was fo prcffed
with debt and taxes, it would be the highelt honour
fee Princes to prat& a certain abdinenee, isdead of
demanding all that their rank might teem to require.
Mr. ROSE thought the increale that was propofed
to the allowances of the younger breaches of the
Royal Family was very reafonabk, and much Ids
than was barely neceffary to meet the depreciation of
money fince chore snowmen, were fixed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob-
(erred, that fince 1778, when there allowances were
fixed, there was no public officer whole falary had
aot been increafed. (holier the rime principle
Arnold be extended to twit perages whofe rank and
fplendour were fo early councils.' with that of the
nation. An Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Smith)
bad quoted a paffage from Lord Bacon, about poverty
being honourable in many fituations. He mud fay,
that in the cafe then before the Houfe, whether po-
verty would or would not be honourable to the indi-
vidual, it certainly would not be honourable to the
State to fuffer thofe to be poor in whore grofperity
and fplendour they were Co much interede . As to
his Royal Highnefs the Dube of Yorh, his cafe wits
very different from that of the reft of the younger
Princes.—By the liniment made upon bins by the
' nation at his marriage, he had 56,0001. per annum
from the public, exclufive of his military media-.
ments. Sucks an income made a very wide didinflion
between him and his younger brothers.
The Bill was then read a fecond time, and ordered
to be committed to-morrow.
tosoaresits.
Sir HENRY Mti.iDMAY rofe, purfuant to no-
tice, and after pronouncing a panegyric upon the
Volunteers, whole feelings were offended, whole zeal
was damped, and whore jealoufy was excited by the
language and fuppofed intentions of his Majefty's
Minifters, called upon the Hoare to remove the irn-
preffion which prevailed among this numerous nd
delaying body, by agreein to the Motion which he
felt it his duty to bring forward. To the objed of
loch a motion he Lad no doubt of meeting the fupport
of a Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Sheridan)
whom he was glad to fee in his place, and whore fps-
rit, patriotifm, and zealous attachment to the Vo-
lunteers were univerfally known and gratefully felt.
The Honourable Baronet concluded with moving as
follows—l, That this Houle does highly approve tnd
gratefully acknowledge the meritorious reprices fo
eminently difplayed by the Volunteer Corps, and that
it does think it neceffary to record its decided opinion.
that the due encouragement of the zeal and patrio-
tifm of there corps is effential to their difcipline and
the maintenance of this edablithment."
Mr. DENT feconded the motion. He perhaps
might hear the previous quedion moved upon his
Honourable Friend's motion, but be did not believe
Minillers dare move it.
Sir R. MILBANK was of opinion the Volunteers.
upon all occafions, would come forward in defence
of their Country, Conflitution, and King. With re-
fpeti to the mode of defence, if Minilters thought
any other better. he was for placing confidence eft
their abilities and integrity.
General PHIPPS, who had been an Infpeaing
Field Officer, fpoke drongly in favour of the officering
.of the Volunteers is general, and particularly thole
of London.
Mr. WINDHAM vindicated his opinions upon
this fubjee, which were precifely the fame at prelent
as they were on any former occafion ; and he was
perfuaded they were fuch as could never operate to
deprefs the fpirit of the Volunteers, if faitly repro.
rented. But mifreprefentation had been aftive refped-
ing his fentiments upon this queftion. Some perfun
had dealt with his fpeculations precifely in the way