Star.
London, England, 1831-03-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL. PAR LIAM ENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 23.
The Earl of HARDWICK!? prettereed a n ninon from Wisbeach,
praying that the town may be represinted i t I'
Petitions for Reform in Parliament w. re pr..sen ed by Lord Rewrote
from Wrexham in North Wales. The Earl of It.CHEsTFR from Rhoot.
ford. Lord Decan, from the County of lie:ts, the town of Ware,
and the Isle of Ely.
Earl GREY presented thirty-tteo petitions to the same effect, amoog
which the noble earl distinguished the petition from Blackburn shoed
by 6000 persons ; that of the housekeepers of Bread Street Ward. .n
the city of London ; and one from St. Mart -le-Strand, signed oy near!:
all the housekeepers.
Lord FARNHAM had two petitions to present; one from the she.
riffs and commons of Dublin, against the proposed plan of parlia.
menhir, reform. The petitioners objected to the measure as giving too
much power to the democracy. It was calculated to dissolve the legis-
lative union, and injure the interests of Ira ird, therefore they opp,oted
it. The second petition was from the master, wardens. and brethren of
the Guild of Dublin, to the same effect. The noble lord concurred in
the sentiments of the petitioners.
The Earl of RODEN said, he had receivd a letter, requesting hint
to support the petitions just presented by the noble lord. He was not
one of those who shut their eyes against reform. It was necessary some
change should be made in the representation, but he was not disposed
to give his sanction to a revolution, which would, in his opinion, be the
effect of the measure then before Parliament. With respect to Ireland,
he really believed it would dissolve the union, and annihilate the Pro-
' testant church. The noble earl had taken the earliest opportunity of
opposing the bill. He had long felt that the inconsistent conduct if
public men had led to the inconvenience anal d.ssatisfacdon which un.
fortunately prevailed among the people. The introduction of sweep-
ing theoretic measures, was an evil which could not be too amen
deplored.
Earl GREY was not disposed, as he bad said before, to enter into
discussion upon the subject of Reform before it came regularly be.
fore that house, but at the same time he never could sit still and
hear the measure introduced by hitneaf anti colleagues called a revo-
lutionary measure, without contradiction. The assertion, which was
only assertion, he denied. He supported the bill because it did not
bear the character the noble lord had given it. The noble land had
also said the bill would dissolve the legislative union—but there was
tut foundation for the assertion. So strongly was he opposed to dins°.
lution of the legislative union, that it it could be proved the bill had a
tendency to produce that event, it would tom in his opinion, a serious oh-
j..et ion to the measure. It would not have that effect. It would excite saris.
faction among the people of Ireland, and induce them to place depen-
dence upon the government, which had their interest and welfare in cola.
templation.—(Hear.) When the noble lord said die troubles of the
country had been occasioned by the inconsistency of public men. he did
not know that be was called upon to answer the charge. He him% •If
had always been opposed to inconsistency. Twenty-six years ago lie
relinquished his share in the government on the ground that he saw in.
consistency in those persons with whom he acted. To the charge of in.
consistency he certainly was not liable. He had taken up the measure
of Reform for the benefit of the country, and if it rhould fail in his
hands, in consequence of the opposition then unfortunately applied to it,
soon indeed it would be forced, upon the country under more fincible
arguments, and the present government would see the very men formed
in way against them, asking for the measure under a principle of fear.
—(Cheering, and hear.) The noble earl would rot have said so much,
if he had not felt that the measure was one of constitutional reform, and
that he was bound to contradict the character the noble lord had gtvtn
it when he described the bill to be founded on revolutionary minciples.
It had a tendency to promote the strength, west h, and prosperity of
the country.
The Earl of RODEN, in explanation. said he had not the least in-
tention of charging tin; Noble Earl with inconsistency.
The Earl of CARN A RYON said, no one could doubt that the
portentous measure then under the eye of Parliament, was dangerous
to the great interests of the country. He had always been of opinion
that the great question of Reform an the Representatiom could not be
given up, but that question ought to be considered with temperate
judgment, giving time for the completion of gradual reforms. The
noble lords who funned the Government had been only six weeks in
office, when they came down with a measure by which all the long.
settled Institutions of the country were to be .hanged. With the
exception of the Universities, there would not be one city, town,
or borough, suffered to remain unaltered. By one swoop all must
give way to a new Constitution. The Noble Earl was not cant.
netted with any borough in the United Kingdom. therefore could
have no interest beyond that which he took is the genteel welfare
of the country. He should aleaya be ready to ref Tat abuses seep
by step, but he never desired to see revolutions y constitutions. -
Having seen scores of constitutions made by French philosophy fait,
he had no desire to try experiments. The British constitution mid
been the work of ages, and could nut be re modelled by a rude and
rapid hand. They bad seen attempts to tote 'duce even the Brenau
form of government into Corsica and Sicily fail. The insti:u•ions of
England must be approached with delicaict. It a temps-tett inettswe
had been proposed to the country, it would have been received ash sa.
tisfactiou by all classes; and reform, if not coin,tlete. would have ..41.
vanced upon Cm grounds The noble earl had said no inconsistency
was to be au:Mateo to nun, out If toe noble earl would look back to
the speeches of his friends, he would hod that they held out reform in
Parliament as the panacea for every evil. This had certainly been
pronounced the greatest of all political humbugs. His hope teas,
that the House of Commons, befote they sent the bill to that house
(if ever they should send it), would so modify it that &nip r might be
avoided.

The LORD CHANCELLOR—Hear, hear.
The Noble and Learned Lord exclaimed hear! and only swished to
hear one side of the question,
The LORD CH ANC ELM/R.—Nu! ! (Or of order, Geller.)
The Earl of CA RNARVON continued :—He expected to come
under the lash of the Noble and beamed Lord's wit and eloquence, but
would rather be expowd to a speech in open debate, than interruptions
from the woolsack. .1 he Noble Lord then cmcluded by alluding to
the endeavours be had made to promote partial Reform, by transferring
the suffrages of the corrupt borough of Penryu to Yorkshire.
The Marquis of LANSDoWNR, although he was not prepared to
enter inks the important details of the return, question, could not allow
the statements made by his Noble Friend Ole Earl of Famarvon) to
pass without reply. With respect to die first charge against his MM.
jesty's Government of having introduced this great measure with pr•-
cipitation, the votes of the House of Commons would be a good and
sufficient answer. His Noble Friend would find that the measure, lel•
new to Parliament, had been debated in the first instarce seven I
A week was then taken before the second reading of .he bill. wt. et,
occupied two nights. That was not all. His Noble Friend sou.tt
find it was not to go to a Committee till after the Easter holidays. Thst
was what his Noble Friend called precipitation. On the subj. et
of the danger which his Noble Friend dreaded, he should as the
measure insured aafet7, and guarded against the danger which his noble
friend deprecated. 'lhe noble marquis would tell those in and out of
that house, who acknowledged that reform in the representation was
necessary, that they should nut object to the plan proposed by his M.t.
lesty's Government without stating their own plans. Let the noble
ord who spoke first in the debate, and his noble friend afford the house
information, and declare what their schemes of retain were, not shelter
themselves under forms without substance; but place their plans, if
they had any, fairly deface the public, who would then have an oppor-
tunity]e
sof judging whether their reforms were better than those pro-
by the King's Government (hear). If there was a determination
Parliament not to meet the changes in society, occasioned by property
and knowledge, there would be a lever on which the ambitious, and.
perhaps, treasonable parties would work for the destruction of the Con-
stitution. His noble friend was for a slow progressive Reform ; but
the object of his Majesty's Government had been to produce a plan
which would not keep the subject alive, and the people always divan.
tithed with the government. A slow and partial Reform was a thing
against which he should always protest. Having approached the ques-
lion with a sense of its importance, they had thought it prudent to
present a scheme of Reform which would not be subject to alteration.
His noble friend had wasted his time and the public money in an en-
deavour to crush the borough of Peaty°, and after all that admirable
plan of Reform had been thrown back on his hands. It was not a par-
tial Reform which the country required, but a fixed and lasting mea-
sure, that would place the elective rights of the people upon a firm and
secure foundation.

The Earl of CAEN %RYON explained.
The LORD CHANCELLOR rose, in consequence of the °Nee- ion
made by his noble friend to the mode be had adopted of expressing his
dissent to the opinion of his noble friend. He considered the mode he
bad adopted sanctioned by the prattles of Parliament, although he did
not profess to be accurately acquainted with the forms of that house.
He was not disposed to exercise any wit be might possess upon the un-
substantial contradictory statements made by his noble Mend, who had
certainly continued an irregular debate, contrary to the 19th standing
order of that house. If, however, he had felt any diSeulty in meeting
his noble friend as an sotagooist in open debate, he was relieved from all
apprehension by the eloquent speech of his noble friend, the President of
the Council; but hie noble friend had net gone far enough in opposing
the charge of breathless precipitation in bringing forward the metomie.
His noble Mend said they hod not been six weeks in °See before the
measure wu brought forth. It was three months. They tante into
ethos on the 224 of November, end on the Sod of March the Bill was
read a second time. He wee sure if his noble friend had been in Ake,
with due knowledge of the importance of the question, instead of tie, y-
ing his Majesty's government three months, he would have been round
the panegyrist for expedition, and ready to sacrifice, on the shard pub.
lie opinion, his bit-by.bit system. (Hear, hear, hear.) It they had ret,
mined one month kart without bringing forward the measure, they"
would have been attd by the very individuals who attacked thew
that night. (Hear, bear, hear.) He had seen such a disposition to at.
tack the government, at the very moment they amebas, edict, that nu
quarter was to be expected. They would not allow hs M not.
nisters to bring in the Bill six weeks after they caine to u ofilee, Lot
ened upon them, Dot from a noble platoon, but popguns ( A lots.;