Star.
London, England, 1813-06-22 00:00:00

system as enlarged was good, and well merited the
support of Parliament.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE certainly had
required more time, and be yet could call to mind
many points on which they were deficient, Their
were many of the accounts of the Company ',lda
required explanation and illustration—but he raged
for other accounts in vain.

CRENVILEE, is *planation, observed,
that lie 'would haie one great objection removed, it
indeed this measure vitae to be subject to the constant
visas of Parliament. The necessity for the renewal
of the Charter for 20 years was nothing but a mere
pretext—it was putting off the evil day in a way that
'skewed, that as long as it could be put off, nobody
cared how it was accomplished. Notwithstanding
_ .

ed to oppose the Duke, though the Duke sent a very
submisiv.e letter, promising more attentive conduct
—To this indignity he submitted, for the sake of his
interest in this corrupt borough. He thought, that
after what had been done in the Penryn cau,e,
the House could not pass over that which 1, .:c
now under their consideration. He believed the o.ily
borough in Cornwall that had the least semblance at

Lord Crometery explained, as did Lords Bocita all he had heard, he yet thought that the root of the independence, was that which he had the he ,„,.
INGIIANISHIRE and LAUDERDALE. ~ ,
evu •in me' system was, the union of Sovereign and to represent, (a laugh); and the reason MS, they made
•
Lord GRENVILLE would not take up much Merchant, a union thattometatbdem atd every turn of the the rate in the Vestry in such a manner, as that r(
of their Lordships' time at that late hour, but he system now proposed man could be returned who was not the choice r I'.)
owed it to himself and to his country and to their Lords Mrseviet..x, Geativiaeopteand B majority of the freemen of the town.—(Hava)....lait
Lordships to say, that should the Amendment un- swag, successively explained. ; ncitiNtibt.
u.- was true that corruption had flourished even there -
fortunately be rejected, he should decline all further After which the House divided on the original a former period, and that twenty-four guineas was th":
interference in the diScussion of the question. Every motion for having the Report brought up to-morrow, price paid for each particular vote, but these irc
word, every sentence that had fallen from the oppo- when there appeared—For it 49—Against it 14— tices had been discontinued. He then advertedte';;a:
site side had convinced him the more firmly of their Majority 35. Adjourned. case of the Borough of Lestwithiel, at the time of it
complete inadequacy to come to a decision on so HOUSE OF COMMONS. Robert Walpole, and mentioned an anecdote of that
great and so important a question—a question in- The Ecclesiastical Courts Bill we. read a third time and passed. great Statesman, which shewed the nature of the b
raving interests of so much magnitude, not only as The English Insolvent Debtors Bill,thedLotterl. Bill, and the gage tenures in Cornwall : there was somethinguir;
regarded ourselves, but as they affected those en- , Cape Wine Bill, were read a third time it rather coarse. but it was truly descriptive of their
Sir G. WARRENDER brought up thean Rpeapasoertd.of the Naval
trusted to their care, either by the triumph of arms Ireal situation. Sir Robert Walpole, then Prime n
Pensions BilL Ordered to be read third time
a _nie to-morrow.
sister, put into the hands of the candidate whom It;
or by the success of treaty. He saw more and more ; The Report of the Irish Malt Duty Bill was brought up, and
how lamentably deficient all of them were of infor- the Bill ordered to bethatreatdhe3 thirdß time to.niorrow. favoured, a charter for the Borough of Leawithiel,
Report of the kish Distillation Bill which vested the right of election in 17 Aldermen
mation on this great question, and, therefore, did he : On the question
most sincerely wish for solemninquiry, dreading as be taken into further consideraetiott
nearly in and a few freemen of the town, and he told him if he
he did the evils which must result from legislating in Mr. W. POLE opposed it on the same ground, and
ever lost his election he ought to bed —d. The
theen
lsamededwords which he employed od the second reading: he
ignorance and darkness. Here had been the mockery by moving,mt that kbe taken‘into farther consideration expression, certainly, was not a little applicable to the
of inquiry. The Company, in their petition for a ousocduay three case imniediately before them.—(Hear)—After the
renewal of the Charter, had prayed to be heard by i Sir 0. Hill, Colonel Bagwell, Mr. Croker, and Mr. W. Fitz- House had sent Mr. Croghan to Newgate, for asserting
gerald, said a few words in support of the Bill. The House then
Counsel, and to have witnesses examined in support that he had seats to sell,he did not see how it was possi-
divided on the am orris it, 7—Againstit, 82. Majority,
of the Company's allegations. Witnesses had been 75, in favour of the Bill ble for them to pass over this case, unless they meant
examined it was true, but in such a way, that he : me. MAnfDcriaXtiapnriteys.Tntedindaiapetition from Boston, for the pro. to measure their resentment by the rank of the often.
could derive no satisfaction from the proceeding. A Pinion ders, and not by the quality of the offence. (Hear, hear.)
, Ike Report el the Bill on Mr. Palmet's claims being broughtup,
Noble Lord, on his having complained of the want He could see no reason why, in the present insUnce,
b Mr. STUART ‘A ORTI.kY rose, to move that the Bill ntigiet
df information, had Undertaken to teach him (Lordthe person transgressing the law should be excused
dthe purpose
bof altering the grant contained
Grenville) his duty, and had told him that he ought in it; he recommitted,
aiolf: Mr. Palmer, whose
i because he is a Duke. In this case the Duke of Leeds
to have attended the Committee. He had attended invention had been of the tame osaat"selrtrealtotothe had paid the debts of the Corporation who elected
therefore, that some compensation was due tprOlll'athe nation to
him, and by so doing, had acted contrary to the law
it for two days. but the result was, that he felt COO-
though it was not to be claimed as a matter of
rinced there was no mode of employing his time that Gentienan' of the land, and had- infringed on the principles of
sum which he proposed to give would be nearly two-
which could be of less advantage to him, in so extra- thirdsrig,
t.Tfhtehthe Constitution. He concluded by moving, that the
As urma already dsyt
at mentionedd
ordinary a manner were the witnesses questioned.— i Colonel n
la' , that as the arrangement propmed Attorney-General be ordered by the House to prose.
As he could not by possibility hit on a plan of em- by the Hon. Member was not agreed by the Administration, lie cute George Frederick Duke of Leeds for the said
had no alternative but to endeavour to carry the Bill as it stood;
ploying his time that could be less profitable to offence.
thatdt be hiadtdduneidevery thing in hi; power, consistent with his
him, lie endeavoured to find out a mode of making a
flluartlh%tVrlinaSt Caul steolipe haill. undertakden, to prevent Mr. D. GIDDY expressed his surprize at the man-
bim Parliament;
Goverment,an e nt; an
alterl , es i
theit ce rl tasl yt nee in which the present motion had been brought
a better use of it, and had desisted from attending thleynencetsjtynofi
the Committee. They had the examinations of regretted that an offer, niacrepebyforward, and the observations which had been made
those witnesses before them, and he would ask, Session, to refer the matter to arbitration, had been rejected.—
on the Noble Duke, and the individuals said to be
risile trusted, therefore, that the friends to the Bill would pardon
w'lat light had been thrown on the question by theirancerned in the transaction. If the u 'cement was cor-
evidencethLe. trouble
ninto,l be
ferhtatcle been compelled to give them, and would reject • C
? He bad much reflected on the matter, recommitment. • I reef, much as he respected those individuals, it would
as one of the deepest interests, and the result was, Mr. RUSE opposed the Bill, and also Sir C. BURRILL. not be in his power to say a sin; le ward in their tie.
that many, vet y many, were the points on which : Mr. P.MOORE insisted that Mr. Palmer, ins cad of receving fence, or in the defence of conduct so directly oppo.
two and an half per cent. as had been alleged, wou id nut receive
he had doubts, and on w hich he would inquire i one
N, r,
Lis agreement. site to all constituti mai principles. He admitted that
before hc could think of coining to a conclusion.— the question of the sum could not now faults had been committed, but contended tiat there
After what the Noble Lord (Lauderdale) had said, ! conic before thei
House.sad, was not sufficient ground for the present mot ion The
he e ould not go through the details of the question • i The SPEAKER said it was undoubtedly-
competent to tto
iftheit family of the Duke of Leeds had long resided in the
9 1 House, in any stage of the proceesh:g, to reduce
yet he could not abstain from some remarks.— y, whether the neighbourhcouti of Helstone, w .icli town bad derived
thou; he proper : lut the question now was ccerel
The Noble Lords opposite had said, as the Minis- Bill should be re-committed ? f the greatest advatttges from their good offices. 'l'ae
tees contemplated no change in the Government of ! Mr. LONG tho, 11. that N. 1 Palmer should consent to sonic family of Gidolp;mt was wel. known and celebrated
India, why ask questions—why make inquiries ? deduction, or, account of the exemptiont. Mail-coaches .10M the •in thehistory of Englafid. The ojet in the parties
Why, that was the very reason for desiring inquiry, • toll-duty.
now aectbed had been to relieve due ai rough from
Mir.
lEROIWN said, the House had on former occasions consi-
to ascertain whether there ought not to be some4d, ainial a matter of tight, and that to recommit the certain heavy taxes which it had laboured under.
change. Nei one would say that there was a ter- Bill out ;lase.
present
ground., would be to etultfy their former de- This tl;ey had dune, and this was their only crime.
tainty of the Government of India being well carried , ci'l""i• , It was well known that the Duke hid repeatedly no-
Mr. W. DIINDAS oppose d the Bill.
on for the next twenty years ; indeed, very little ex- ; minated candidates for the Borough of Helstorfe. and
,Colonelh Id'ALM Lit, lel answer to Mr. Long, s4d, that Mail-
perience was reqnired to show that many reasons 1
tint
nexeed from duty in 1784, and that Mr. they had been returned. No doubt, tie law had been
might shoot across the mind to induce 7t contrary ' c°l,:icin'ers•dida receive his appointment, nor wu the agreement traken ; but he would leave it to the House, whether,
belief. With the Government in its present form ', made, till 1189. i under all the circumstances, it was a case which
Mi. H. SUNINER opposed the grant. . called for its interference ? There was another way
the complicated mixture of rule and commerce, oft
Mr. WYNNE would never allow that any Chancellor of the
Sovereign and merchant—and the great remittances i Euxecnitirqerha e consentdiaright to convey any sum art money, by agree- ,by which the House might
m express iis disapproba-
fro that country without any returns, he had neve n r without 1 of Parliament. I ton—that would be, to come to a re; 1 ulna signify-
Colonel PALIVER S:liti, the objection of the Hun. Gentleman ing the intention of the House to bring in a Bill to
heard airy one say that the cutmtry could bear such i
a state of things for any great length of time. What regulate Elections at Helstone in future. Such a
I.lter a few words from Mr. Goutsovarts, the House divided
was done in 1793 was no example for them now—if ;
—.:liiire tit', ee A metendn:enht 44—Against is 77. 1 Resolution as this would answer every purpose of
the Parliament did wrong at that time of day it wasting the improper conduct complained of, which
and
the
ittilitopeowpnasedt
tonbereec,eaidveed,thtileide
time Amendmentst agreedT to, CO;Tec
no reason that they should do so on the present occa- I, certainly had taken place, The Aldermen, he con.
sion. The period had, then been limited with the Mr. BANK es proposed as an Amendment thr thnetrthwri d.tended, were not benefited by their interference in this
should be fixed for Thursday The gallery was cleared,readingti'a
but no
view of promoting ir.quiry, and they had some right i division took place ; and the Bill was ordered to be read a third Election, and therefore they could not have acted
to hope that an examination would have been gone . time to-n'orruw. i from any corrupt motives. HP had no objection to
into instead of receiving a string of resolutions from 1 HELBTONE ELECTION. I see the Borough thrown open, but he saw ao occasion
Ministers, at the close of a laborious Session. But for the prosecution now moved for.
let them say what they pleased about the measure of Mr. W. WYNNE was happy to see this question,
1793, he would assert, and feared not contradiction, and the Report, at length brought before the House.
. _

tht had it not been for that very measure, the British
name would not have existed in India two years after
that period—(Hear, hear.) There was anther sub-
ject, which had keen touched upon for the first time
this night, and a hich he could not pass unnoticed,
namely, the surplus revenue in India.—(flear.) He
would ask whether that subject was nothing when
they considered the amount of the revenue—the na-
ture of it, the manner in which it was collected, and
the mode of its application. Who could tell the abuses
that had crept into this part of the system ?—who
could tell what oppressions might not be carried on
for the purposes of raising revenue ? He had never
yet found any one wbo could solve the problem for
him, whether the revenue collected in ildia was not

The Special Report of the Committee on the Hel-
stone Election was read, containing .a charge against
the Duke of Leeds, for his conduct in that borough :
it was agreed to by the House.
Mr. SWAN then rose to make his motion on this
subject. He was actuated by no private enmity or
pique, but thought it his duty, as one of a large ma-
jority in that Committee, to submit this question to
the House. He did not wish to say any thing disre-
spectful of the Noble Duke, whose character was of
the first respectability, nor of the worthy Members
whom the Duke had nominated. It appeared that
the great liberality practised by the family of the
Noble Duke, formerly resident near that Borough,
had produced on the part of the inhabitants and cor-
poration, a wish to compliment him by giving him
the nomination of the Members for the Borough. He
was not disposed to object to the legitimate influence
of property : but the Duke's was of a different sort :
his family had ceased to reside there, and the castle
was going to ruin.: but he had bought the represen-
tation qf the Borough for the consideration that he
should pay 4121,700 per year, the amount of the poor-
rates of the town of Helstone. The Borough had
been corrupt for years, and he believed, the Right
Honourable the SPEAKER was •the last Member who
was chosen by the only remaining freeman. In
1804, the Duke had thought the terms offered to
him unworthy of his acceptance, and an Honourable
Baronet (Sir Christopher Hawkins), had purchased
a moiety of the interest for 5000 guineas, a practice
at which (as had been expressed by high authority)
our ancestors would have started with indignation.—
He had thought it, as many others had found it, a
good stepping-stone towards a seat in the other
House. A consultation then took place in the Clll fro.
ration to whom they should offer the ot: er ni. fr!y,
and it being resolved to make an offer to the D.rke,
that Nobleman received the application with thank-
fulness, and expressed a hope, that he should behave
better in future. He must here state, that the great
actors in all the corruptions and briberies of Cornwall
elections were Clergymen : at f regotry, a clergyman
was the principal agent : at Pero yo, a cirri, yrnan
was likewise the prime mover :—arid the Rev. Mr.
Grills, who was also chief Alderman at Helstone,
and possessed a valuable King's living, had the con-
duct of the bribery at Helstone. The Duke, who had
agreed to pay the poor-rates, amounting to ,El7OO,
under that agreement nominated two gentlemen,
Mr. Hammetsley, the bankqr, and Mr. Horne, the
barrister. One of the Cokpieation, who had applied
to the Duke for some situatiori for his son, and had
received no answer, though he was able to bear the
disappointment, could not bear the blight, determin-

. _
The fact was establishal, beyond the possibility of a
contradiction, that the Duke of Leeds had violated
the standing orders of the House, and the law of the
country ; and if the House had kny regard for its
oven dignity, it could not pass over this motion with-
out due notice. He telt that if this motion were ne.
gatived, it would be degrading to the dignity of the
House, as well as a violetign of the law. He WAS
ready to participate in every feeling of private rtspect
to the character of the Duke of Leeds ; but that N.
bleman should not, on that account, be exempt from
a prosecution, to winch awn in humbler situations of
life would be liable.
Mr. TREMAINE thought the punishment ought
to fall on the Borough, and not on the individual, tsoo

at once so enormous and so oppressive, that the land
could not much longer exist under it. They ought
to ascertain this fact, what proportion of revenue the
land could bear from which it was collected—it was

had only trod in t e steps of others who hdd gone
belbre him. He would consent to have the 13,rough
thrown open to the Freeholders of the Hundred ; but
not. to the lower orders of the people, who would

a matter of the highest importance, and well me:ited
their most solemn consideration, as embracing the
poverty or prosperity of the people in India. He
would not have them pledge the faith of the Parlia-
ment of England, without inquiry, for the collection
of a revenue that might be ruinous in its tendency--
that might he more than the land could bear. But
the Ministers had no accounts in their pockets—they
could not shew what would he even the probable
effect—they had no decision in their system. There
was something that he had heard which gave him
peculiar satisfaction, namely, that though the Charter
was to be granted for twenty years, the lease was
voidable at the will of those who granted it—that in
truth, it was to be subject to the revisal of Parliament.
He had trespassed longer than he intended; but he
owed it to himself and to his country to withdraw
himself from the proceedings which were about to
be adopted, as the whole nook' have the effect of
making a shew of discussion and deliberation where
there wally was none—where they had nothing to
proceed on.
Lord LIVERPOOL contended, that every argu-
ment that could be adduced wits against delay; that
it imperiously called on thetn for immediate discus-
sion, and immediate discussion of the principles of the
system was all that was required by the motion before
them. As to further intormatii.n, Committees of In.
muiry had been had by both Houses ; and the prin.
ciples of the Government were distinctly known in
December or January last. The projected system
was 10l111dCd on experience, rejecting what was bad,
and adopti.% what was goods

ester be influenced by the most Corrupt Candidates.
and would return the worst species of Members to
that House.
Mr. BRAND supported the motion; and said, the
speech of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Giddy) only
served to convince him more than ever tithe neces-
sity of a Reform in Parliament—a question which.
he regretted, could not be brought before the House
this Session. Not only ought this motion to be
agreed to, but a Bill ought to be brought in to purify
the Borough of Helstone, by throwing the represen-
tation into the surrounding Hundreds.
Mr. BAN KES thought the House shruld not order
a prosecution of this kind, unless a conviction was
likely to take place. He was clearly of opinion, that
there was not the most distant probability of such a
prosecution succeeding ; and therefore, from the very
necessity of the case, the House must ahandon the
cony ,c of procecdinr, recommendci to ;t. Every end
would he attained by bringing in a Bill correcting'
the constitution of the lluton:(h, which, he hoped, the
lion. Gentleman du in:meth:idly.
Mr. PRESTON befesei there was an illegal con-
duct at the Election; but as he was sure there cou:d
not be it conviction, were this motion agreed he
would, move, as an amendment, this Resolution :—.
That the House would, early in the next Sesuun
of
Parliament, take into consideration the state of the
Election for the Borough of Helstone, with a view to
extend the right of franchise therein."
Mr. ASTON opposed the motley.
• Nir. S. WORTLEY ssislied the House to consider
that there was a utr2r :1,