Star.
London, England, 1822-03-06 00:00:00

lIOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. CURTRI* moved for several Returns relating to Bark
imported into this country, for the years subsequent to 1819.
Orden d.

Mr. LOCKHART presented a Petition from certain Occu-
piers of Land at Doncaster ; and another from pccupiers of
Land in Dorsetshire, complaining of agricultural distress, and
praying for protecting duties.-,Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. CUR WEN presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of
Wigton, in Cumberland, praying for a revision of the Criminal
Code.—The Petition, after a few words from Mr. CUZWSX bi
its support, was ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. LOCKHART gave notice, that on the 16th instant be
should move for leive to bring in a Bill to facilitate the recovery
of the possession of small Tenements held over by Tenants after
the expiration of their terms.
The Sugar Duties Bill, the Exchequer Bills Bill, and the
Transfer of Aids Bill, were read a third time and passed.
Mr. Alderman WOOD brought up the Report of the Cons.
mince appointed to consider eke Petition of the City of London,
respecting the repair of London Bridge.
Mr. HOLME SUMNER objected to the course taken by
the City on this occasion. He had no doubt he should be in-
structed to mine fur a Bill to take down the present Bridge,
and build another.
Sir F. OMMANEY spoke a few words bar support of the
observation of Mr. H. Sumner..—Leave was tlicsi given for
hinging in a Bill to repair the Bridge.
• Mr. CHETWYND gave notice, that on Tuesday next he
should move for leave to bring in a Bill for more effectually
enforcing the Laws against Beggars, and for giving additional
powers to. Vagistrates for that purpose.
The Mirquls of LONDONDERRY, in the absence, from
indisposition, of his Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the
Eachejuer), postponed until Thursday next his Right lion.
Friends notice respecting the Superannuation Bill. He would
here observe, that there was a notice of the Hon. Member far
Aberdeen on the books, respecting some Accounts relative to
the Consolidated Fund. The information required by the Hon.
Member would be detailed in the measure about to be proposed
by his Right Hon. Friend. The Honourable Member would
probably, therefore, not object to his motion going off for the
present, as it would obvious that he might revive it, if the in-
formation alluded to should not be satisfactory.
The Repoh of the Committee of Supply upon the Navy Esti-
mates was brought up by Mr. Plumose, and agreed to.
On the motion of Mr. CROViII, leave was given to bring in a
Bill for regulating his Majesty's Marine Forces on shore.
Sir Id. W. RI DLEY moved for a Return of the Rental of
the several Estates belonging to .Greenwich Hospital, and of all
sums expendid or allowed for the Repairs thereof, and a Return
of the number of Agents employed in the management of those
estates, with the amount of the several 'Walks ; and also a Re-
torts of the number of peewee holding oboes in the Hospital,
stating whether any, and which of those offices were @seem .4 by
Depudei ; the amount of the Wary fur each office; and stating
also whether any of such oilleers held any ether office, with the
amount of the salary attached to the same.—Oidenni. .
ACTIOI44I AGIAINs:r IiUNAREDS•
tio ' n notice, rout to move for leave
the &coven of small Claims
, Damage done by Rioter. The
would be quite suiliciset for hint
proceedings which hpri taken place
'ear ; and be tiene so, he
ion to offit atile*rword in
Spring &ohne 11 sedans were
s amounting altogether to depi.

.1... ...r..7.... P031.1111.4WW1N. *MP Wry •••••• INTR. ...... ••••••••••• +gm..
Poor* ki floe. 41s Oa ,jendcr• tket. lookillabia oefatoent truly Mr. DIM tilt) N, put suant to nuik
elepat and boauWol3 tote litho only prepay on tbat really pep- to Wring In a Bill for facilitating the
seams nutritiout virtual fbr that purpos6 ItS Itseittrnable vie- against Hundreds, in respect of Danu
tees have gained% thes:age ol ble BoßeniMighnses the Duite Ilion. Member stated, AP k would
of Snow% their in IMajesiiioSire Avitimir Ant Repress to inform the House of Proct'edk
al gnosis, and* .. of 244038
~ , . in the count of Surrey lot year /
Particular minion la,4oMarLiti. ..
. ; ..,. hot. thought he should not have occasion
.Ili_ is iilia•d k1it*41,141‘.4:, ir kg ‘, . ' ‘-' ' . or peppered his motion. At the Sprint
LlThydittelet, MWMOINONL SW • ,„, brought to trial to recover sums am

r

1

4

rertioss‘irente tehi—tottteser-"- 44-4-&-gd.
of this vetoes tag it * suns anise, at £551. es
of the alms wee td reeoverstes: and the costs of t.
.were taxed at. I Nut eveey one of these actions
unavoidably brought, bases the ready by • action
only one WI open by law for those wale property
The Home must be satisfied that so moostroos
Called lousily for redress; and with the permission of tn. _
be would submit a MB, giving the Quarter Sessions jualielim
over causes wherein the sa
Honkt to be reentered adlinin-
ceed twenty pounds. The Member accerifingly mad fer .
knee to briag io seek a Bfil.
Mr. R. W I LBRAHA M said, be could mama the Hato..
intent of the Hon. Mover as far as regarded the penal anoint
of the law expenses compared with the sum to be esoomenile--'
This evil had been so deeply felt In the county of liasentor tbat
ft was contemplated by the Bench of Magistrates to notion Mot
lMr. Wilbraham) to bring in a BM similar to that mite mooed ha'
ie was happy the subject bad been takers up by the Finallsootar.
Mr. SCARLETT approved of the ; batthas& it Wm'
not necessary to confine its effect to nay redoubt sum. The
mode of recovery might be amplified goondly, without tang
away the principle upon which the preen* law an foitded.—
All that the law required was that the right of the personale.
ing the remedy should be established by a Jury.
Mr. LOCKHART highly approved of the 1/Me and.trasted
ft would be only a precedent for others. The prow* node .1
administering justice was disgraceful to a civillemi em entry i rd
be trusted the subject would be taken up by the H 0..,.
Leave was then given to bring in the BM.
SCOTCH JUST LAW.%
Mr. KENNEDY brought forward his p d meta r..
'pectins the present mode of conducting cabal procadinp
in Scotland with reference to Juries. If, bowman, the Learned
Lord opposite would introduce the submit lath the alum he
was about to propose, he (Mr. K.) would gram Ms modem.
The LORD ADVOCATE said, he so widely darid el*
nion from the Hon. Member upon the subject in rpteansa, that
be thought it would be more advisable for the Hen.
to proceed with his motion.
Mr. KENNEDY reared. He would shortly inform the
House the present state of the Criminal Law of Scotland.—
The chief Criminal Court was the High Court of Jusdclary,
and the Members of this Court held Circuits twice a year. The
Court next in importance was the Sheriff's Court. The Sheriff
was, in Scotland, a Judge appointed by the Crown, and selected
from the Bar. He decided many civil and some criminal
cases, and in others of the latter description he sent the accused
to trial, his adjudication bring in the nature of the finding of a
Grand Jury. The June was in Scotland composed of fifteen
persons, and a majority decided the question. These fifteen
were selected from forty-five summoned for the purpose, and
the selection was made by the presiding Judge. The prisoner
bad not the right pf challenge which was given by the English
law. He could only offer certain legal defined exceptions to any
Juror to whom he objected, and the presiding Judge decided
upon those exceptions. The Bill he proposed was principally
for giving the prisoner the right of challenge, and had been mo-
delled upon the measure lately adopted for extending the Trial
by Jury in Scotland to civil cases. That measure was intended,
in the first instance, to be merely temporary; but the experi-
owe of four years had shewn its beneficial effects, and it was
made permanent. The Honourable Member complained that
much prejudice bad been excited against him because he had
brought the present subject forward, and he, therefore, trusted
that be should be alloy/ad to offer himself again to the notice
of the Haus.: should any observations be made which might in
hi; opinion render it necessary for him to de so. .The Honour-
*isle Member then moved for leave to bring in a Bill to alter the
present mode of proceeding on Trials by Jury on Criminal
Charges in Scotland.
The LORD ADVOCATE said, he should not oppose the
motion, but he trusted the house would not come to any °pi-
vim on the subject until the question should come on for the
second reading of the 13111. He pledged himself to prove to the
sa isfection of the House that the measure was uncalled-for =-
necessary, and unwise.—Leave was given to bring in the Bill.
Sir M. W. RI DLEY withdrew his intended motion far
Tioursoay next, in cons. queuce of the vote to which the House
16.4 come the other night respecting the reduction of two
Lords of the Admiralty. As llinisuffs intended to act .upon
that vote, it was unnecessary for kim to press his motion.
Mr. HUME, in consequence of the suggestion of the Noble
Marquis, withdrew his notice of motion fur several Returns
connected with the Consolidated Fund, and expressed his in.
tention to wait for the proposed measure of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer.—The Honourable Member then presented a
Petition from certain Inhabitants of the County of Lancaster,
in favour of Mr. Hunt, which, after a few observations from
Mr. Hume in support of it, was ordered to lie on the table and
be printed.
Mr. W. COURTEXAY moved for the appointment of a
Committee to examine the Prison Laws. The necessity of a
general code of Prison regulations was, he believed, generally
admitted. He should move merely for the re-appointment of
the Committee which sat last year, with the exception of the
addition of one name, that of the Right Hon. Secretary for the
Home Department. The labour of the Committee would be
directed in a great degree towards the devising of some mea-
sure which would be submitted for the approbation of the
house. The Hon. Member then moved fur the appointment
of the Committee; and the motion, after a few words from Mr.
WAIST, was agreed to.
The LORD ADVOCATE moved for leave to bring in a
Bill respecting the law of naturalization in Scotland. The
Learned Lord stated that the Bill was a continuation of a former
measure, and that its continuance was occasioned by a late decl-
aim of the Court of Session.
After a few words from Mr. Loewe, leave was given to
bring in the Bill.
Lord NORMANBY gave notice that, on Wednesday, the
13th inst. he should submit to the House a motion connected
with the office of Joint Paymaster -General.
Mr. SCARLETT presented a Petition from the Land
Owners near Peterborough, complaining of Agricultural Duo-
trees, which the Petitioners attributed to taxation. They stated
that they bad been unwilling to trouble Parliament with their
complaints, in the full expectation that Ministers would have
proposed an adequate remedy. The remedy which Ministers
bad proposed the Petitioners conceived to be altogether ineffec-
tual, and in these sentiments be fully concurred. He thought
the principal cause of the present distress was the resumption
of cash payments. Indeed, he thought the distress was a ne-
cessary consequence of that measure. The argument of his
Hon. Friend, the Member for Pormiington, was, that the re-
sereptios of cash payments had not made a difference of mote
than S per cent. Even this rate upon a revenue of sixty mil-
lions amounted to one million ; but it was his (Mr. Searktes)
opivion that the measure in question, with the addition of the
three millions of new taxes imposed since the resumption, made
* difference of at least nine millions. It followed that, as the
taxes were net nominally affected by the currency, they ab-
sorbed a greater quantity than usual of the produce of the soil.
—He could not conceive that abundant production could be a
cause of real dist:else though it might be one of low prices.
If the produce of the soil were divided into different chan-
eels, Ind If the Government received its taxes in • share of
this produce, the Government, as well as each other receiver of 1
its eve, would be the better for receiving a larger quantity
than was customary. Abundance, he never would believe,
could muse poverty; and the alteration of the currency had no
other effect than that of giving .to Government a larger share of

the produce.
Mr. RICARDO said, that in the ease put by Ms Hon. and
Learned Friend, It was true each person received a larger
share than usual ; but his Hon. and Learned Friend went
no further. The depreciation in the value of the surplus or.-
metaled distress, because there was sot any demand for R—
ile admitted that the resumption of cash payments had caused
a partial alteration ; but, in his oomeienee, be believed that
- increase of quantity was the principal cause of the pre-
Mar
).
PEEL gave notice that, on Thursday, the 14th last. he
move for the reeppolounent of a Committee to inquire
she Ponce of the Metropolis.

REPORT OF IRS COMMITTER OP SUPPLY.
BROGDEN brought up the Report of tb•
Committee of Supply.
On the first Resolution being read, that there be al-
lowed for his Majesty's Land Service at home and
abroad, 68,802 men from the 25th of December, 1821,
the 24th of December, l 822, both inclusive, being
days

thr 4

.of hls Majesty's
) u=tbli which
he had taken of ibis great q *-114'was not
anxious to prevent troops from bebtrichsent to Ireland
to put an end to the disturbances stra taw existed
there—quite the contrarYi he wished those disturb.
anon to be put down with alispeed, whatevermight
be the original causes of them. The anlY•differeoce
which existed between himself and the members of
his Majesty's Government was, ibis be chOught that
there were already in Ireland troops enough to effect
that object. The way he made that assertion out
was this--.By the estimates that had bebn resented
to the House, it appeared that in Ireland there were
18,397 men, and in England, including reliefs, there
were 22,462 men, making a total of 40,869 men.—
There were also hree Veteran Battalions, which in-
creased that total to 48,550 men. Now he contended
that such a number of men, exclusive of the assistance
to be derived from the Artillery, who amounted to
7000 men, from the Marines, who amounted to 8000
men, and from the troops in the colonies, exclusive of
the East Indies, who amounted to 27,943 men more,
was more than sufficient to quell the disturbance's
now raging in Ireland.„ The Noble Lord in his
statement had omitted to take any notice of the Ar-
tillery; Marines, and Veteran Battalions, and had
stated the amount of the forces at home and in the co-
lonies at 68,802 men. Now, he maintained, upon the
declaration of the Noble Marquis' opposite, that as
Marines were performing the duty of tegular sol-
diers in the Mediterranean, and the Veteran 13sittalions
the same at home, they ought to be included in future
with the Artillery in the account of the regular
Army ; and in that case the military force of the
country would amount .to 86.493 men, instead of
68,802 Dim as stated by the Noble Lord. From that
somber he wished to take ten thousand men,- and so
reduce it to 76,495 men. That was the extent of
the proposition he had made, and for making it he
had been taunted with inconsistency by Honourable
Gentlemen opposite. (Load cries of Hear,hear, hear).
e maintained that upon the necessity of reducing
the Army he had always been consistent, as he had
endeavoured to convince the House by his argument
of last night. The Noble Marquis opposite had said
that any saving, however small, that could be made
without detriment to the public service, ought to be
made without delay. Now lie had kept that declara-
tion of the Noble Marquis continually in his view ;
and upon seeing that the expenses of the Army in the
year 1822 amounted to between seven and eight mil-
lions, according to the Noble Lord's own- figures,
whilst in the year 1792 they did not amount to more
than £2,331,149, he had become convinced that the
difference of expenditure in the two years was greater
than ought to be permitted. He had there/cue pro-
posed a reduction of ten thousand men, by which a,
saving of half a million would be gained to the coun-
try. The Right Hon. Gentleman, who was Under
Secretary for the Colonial Department, had called
the saving which he had proposed a petty, paltry
saving, and had implored the House upon that ac-
count to reject it with disdain—(Hear, hear,fions the
Opposition benches).—He did not know whether the
being a few days in office had produced such an
effect upon the Right Hon. Gentleman as to make
him conceive the saving of half a million a petty
paltry saving ; but he did know this, that the Right
Hon. Gentleman had told the House that the Hon.
Member for Aberdeen, in his petty paltry public sav-
ings, wished to neglect the service of the country.—
Now he (Mr. Hume) trusted that no proposition
which he had ever made was deserving of the disdain
of the House. Indeed, be thought that the term
" disdain" was an improper term for one Member of
Parliament to use of another ; and if it were used for
the purpose of deterring him from examining the
financial arrangements of the country, he treated it
with that contempt which he trusted that lie should
always apply to such propositions as talked of half a
million as a petty paltry saving—(Hear, hear).—
Having said this muth to the Right Honourable
Under Secretary, he must now express a hope that
the Honourable Member for Liverpool was in his
place, as he had a word or two to say to him regard-
ing the insinuations which he had thrown out at the
same time against his (Mr. Hume's) profession. As
the Honourable Member was not present, he should
abstain from the observations which he should have
otherwise made, unfair as he thought it to be for one
Member to allude to the private history or character
of another. "My profession," continued Mr. Hume,
" is as well known as that of the gallant General ;
and if I were to ask him what part of his professional
conduct got him the regiment which he now has the
honour to command, he would, perhaps, find more
difficulty in answering the question than I should,
were he to ask me to what measures 'my success in
lite was owing I—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial
Benches, re. echoed by the Opposition). Hon. Gentle-
men may cheer as much as .they please ; but when
allusions are made to the private history and private
circumstances of any Member, it is done for some
mean, improper purpose, and not from a sense of
public duty"—(Hear, hear). He was sorry to say
that there were several Gentlemen on his side of ;be
House who viewed a standing army with as much
delicacy as the Honourable Gentlemen opposite, and
who•were inclined to look upon it as the Noble Mar-
quis (lid, as the best protector of our rights and
liberties. He would, however, ask those Honourable
Gentlemen whether, if 58,0Q0 men were a sufficient
force for the country in 1792, 76,000 men were not
sufficient in 1822? He had said nothing of the con-
siderable increase which had taken place since the
former period in the number of our Militia Regi-
ments, • and our Volunteer and Yeomanry Corps,
which at present consisted of 151,258, ready to be
called out upon any emergency, independent of the
colonial troops at Ceylon and the Cape, which
amounted to 3000 or 4000 men more. He ad said
nothing upon that subject, because he wished die
House clearly to understand that his motion had tn.
ferenee to no other matter than to the troops of the
line. After this statement, be thought %bathe hid
said enough to convince the House that 76,498 am
would be sufficient for the service of the year. He
would not dictate to Ministers what particulat lave,

, •ad he

mint, abet the vote etbriCh ihe Zit Lord onielite
had taken for 68,80:bet W heeMitaised
was In reality for $6,493 men, • should be filth shed
by 10,000 men, or that 58,802 men only should be
voted for the stroke of the year.
Mr.WILMOT thought that the Han. 211 ember fee
Aberdeen would have done better if he had made
tbe speech with which he had that evening favoured
the Haile, on a former evening in. the Committee,
and when the Hon. MeMber for Liverpool was pre,
sent to repel the attack which had been made upon
him—(Lord cheers front the Ministerial benches).—
Re begged leave most distinctly to assert, that he had
never made use of the expressions sa petty, paltry
savings," whatever might appear to the contrary in
those historical fragments of which they had recently
heard so much. Neither had he said that the propo-
sition of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen ought to
be rejected with disdain. He would spew Hon.
Gentlemen, by a repetition of what he did say, that
he could not have used any such language. The
Hon. Member for Aberdeen had said that the reduc-
tion effected in the Colonies did not exceed 4.00 men.
—Now he had sbewn that the forces in the Colonies
last year amounted to 32,467; and in the present year
to 27,943, which showed a redaction of from 3,000
to 4,000 men. He had then said, that if the Hon.
Member took no more care in his other financial as-
sertions than he had done in that which he had ex-
posed, he should feel it right to reject his proposi-
tions in futu:e with disdain.
Mr. HUME had only to appeal to his Hon. Friend
the Member for Shrewsbury, to prove that he had
not been singular in his misconception of what had
fallen from the Hon. Gentleman. He had taken
notice of the expressions at the time they were used,
and, if he had not felt himself precluded from tres-
passing on the attention of the House at midnight
to reply to them, he should certainly have replied to
them at the time. The Hon. Member had certainly
appeared to him to make use of the expressions which
he had attributed to him; whether they were so at-
tributed to him in the historical fragments of the
day, as they were called, he (Mr. Hume) could
not say, as he had not seen any of them that day.
With regard to the mistake, as the Hon. Gentleman
had stated how it occurred, he should not say a word
upon it. ;dr. Hume then proceeded to explain how
the mistake, which he allowed that he had made re-
garding the amount of the reductions in the for:es in'
the Colonies, had arisen : it was from having found
the forces differently stated in two different Papers ;
in the one they were only stated rank and file; in the
other, their Qfficers were also included. He was
anxious to assure the House that be had never made
any statement without deliberation, and that the mis-
take which had been pointed out had no effect upon
his general statements.
The SPEAKER then put Mr. Hume's Amendment
from the Chair, which was negatived without a divi-
sion.—The other Resolutions in the Report were then
agreed to.

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Was leja"d* between his statements arid those
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