Star.
London, England, 1801-12-02 00:00:00

A 33121 OW lIIMILD.

Alderman oM's brought up a Bill to repeal
the Afls of the 37th and 38th of his prelim Majef-
ty, relative to fixing the AlEre of Bread; and to
render more effeaual the aft of the 31 ft En George
the Second on that fubjeft.
The CHANCELLOR of the Excites:lsm faid, he
fhould briefly (tate to the Houfe the grounds upon
which he fupported the propofitien of the worthy
Alderman. It appeared that the Afts which the
Bill juft introduced was defigned to repeal, had
completely failed of their obje&. That which was
commonly called Skinner's Aft, though. great
hopes were formed from it, had proved quite an
unfuccefsful experiment; inftead of operating to
reduce the price of Bread, it had rather produced
a different cffefl, it rendered the Baker indifferent

to the price of Flour, as his profits did not at all
depend upon it. He could readily conceive the
principle upon which the Aet of George the Se-
cond was founded ;—it ordained that the price of
Bread fhould be fettled by the relative prices of
Corn—and thus certainly eitablifhed a more fe;
cure barrier againft combination than the laws
fince enafted, though he wiffied not to be under-
Rood as giving countenance to an opinion too ge-
nerally prevalent, that combinations to any con-
fiderable extent, had during the late fcarcity, ex-
ifted among the Mealmen and Bakers. It was
imagined that the connedion between the price
of Flour and Bread would be more corral, and
Insight be more eafily afcertained, than between
Corn and Bread ; but the latter guarded more
effeetually againit fraud and collufion, becaufe it
would be more difficult to produce an under-
' Rending between the Bakers and the Corn.cleal-
ers, who were numerous, and came from different
parts of the country, than between the Bakers and ;
the Mealmen, who were few and refident in Lon- l
don.—Jt mull be obvious that there would be much
greater opportunities of mutual accommodation
among the latter. By the plan propofed the Ba-
kers would be intereited in endeavouring to reduce
the price of Grain. He did not mean however to
infinuate that it could ever have been their in.

'era, or that they had been at all concerned in

, .
railing the price of Grain. He willed not to at•
tach any imputation to that defcription of men—
than whom, he believed, there was not it the

country a clan ofTradefmenmoreufeful or refpea-
able. It would be, therefore, with a confiderable

feeling of repugnance that he fhould hear of any
propofitions to put the Baker entirely at the difcre.
tion of the Magitlrates, as it might be proriduaive of
injuflice and barflinefs towards the Baker, itsaf-
much as an appeal to the Magittrate in times of
fcdrrity, might operate on his feelings to iffue or
very much abridging the profits of the Baker.
To the difcretion of any Magitlrate, however ref.
pediable even the Lord Mayor of London, the
profits of the Baker ought not in his opinion to be
committed: nor did he approve altogether of any
plan to ix the price of Bread according to the re-
lative price of either Corn or Flour. .The more

he eonhderecithis fttbjea in all its bearings, the
more he was difpofed to Rant to the jurtiee of the
remark of the worthy Alderman, that it would be

- - defirable to do away the pretest .fyltern refpeaing
the Arne of Bread. and allow that article to be

-
Idifpored according to the fair, acknowledged, and
ordinary rules of buying and felling—convinced
that it would be infinitely more for the advantage
f.f the public. He was aware, that in 1772, when
it was deemed advifable to abolilb a fylem of op-
preffive laws againli commerce, which pur-
ported to he merely a provition againit mono-
poly, the witell men of that day fupprifed it pru.
dent to fttPr this law to 'rid, in under that the

bAker, in t;m4% of fcarcity, if a tEflreired popu-
Licc alatl him, if his enaomer &add corn.

We, bight 47-0. Truly, the pride of intad
We,
but it is not my fault; it accords with th
arrangement, and is fanflioned by the anthorit
of the Magittrates." It therefore gave proteaints
to the Bakers.—Perhaps, now, after men's mind
had been fo much engaged on this fulijea, the
country was better prepared for this defirahle
change, than it was in 1772. By the adoption of
that change only, he was perftiaded, could the
price of bread find its proper level, ;aid jullice be
done to the tradefmau and die public.
Thrall was read a firthand second time, and
on the motion of Alderman CUR T', that it Ihould
be committed for 'l'o morrow,
The CHANCELLOR of the Excarqyza yequefint
to know, whether it was not the intention of the
worthy Alderman, to move that it fhould be la
infiration to the Committee to receive certaia
claufes to fecure to the Bakers the remuneration
for the advanced duty on Salt ; and alfo to have
the Bill printed and circulated, with the propofed
Amendments, for the information of all parties
concerned ?
Alderman Coal- is anfwered in the affirmative.
The Motion for the Committee was agreed to,
and Alderman Cutris moved inftrudions to the
Paid Committee to receive certain Claufes, the one
of the nature defcribed by the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, and the other to prevent the adultery
don of Bread.—Agreed to.
POOR 'AMR BILL.
The Order of the Day for the farther confide.
ration of the Report of the Committee on this Bill
being read,
Mr. Snaw LITIVRI rote, and exprefred a with
that the Bill fhould be recommitted, in order to
introduce an amendment, that the amount of the
penalty levied on Overfeers in certain cafes, fhould
be entirely paid to the Poor of the Parifh, which
he conceived would preferve Overfeers from thofe
vexatious profecutions, of which fo much cons.
plaint had been made, by taking away all encou-
ragement to informers.
The SPEAKER obferved, that it was unneceffary
to recommit the Bill for the purpofe Rated by the
Hon. Gentlem.m.
Mr. NEWIOLT Paid, the objed of the Bill was not
to protect Overfeers of the Poor from gmi tam ac-
tions, but to enable them to relieve the Poor in cer-
tain cafes.
Lord GLEN slam objected altogether to the
fyftem of bodging the Poor.
Mr. &taw Ler Ives explained.
Mr. ELLI s roes laid hi could not, confidering the
Bill upon the fair and original principles of the
Poor Laws, give his afent to the meafure, and he
thought that Gentlemen fhould not argue in its fa-
vour fo much from the experience of a few years
pall, as from the old fyftem of benevolence and
jullice, eftablifhed by the 43d of Elizabeth. Pre.
cedents had been drawn for it from what had
palled in Somerfetlhire ; but it did not follow that
a liana° was to be enacted becaufe there did exilt
temporary and local fubjeas of complaint. The
Laws as they then were with refped to the Poor,
conflituted a pure and operative fyftem, if properly
confidered, and he would undertake to contra
the new-falbioned (latrine of humanity with the
grand principle, that every Member of fooiety
llsould be made as ufeful to it as poffible, Upon
that principle was the Statute of Vlzabeth
enacted, that all perfons fhould work as ranch
as poffible, for the benefit of the community, and
that indolence fhould be punifhed. while tares
of calamity were at the fame tittle entitled to due
confideration and adequate relief, He had, and he
could mien it from his own experience, feen the
poor receive relief, which, put in comparifon with
the hard earnings of the induftrious claffes, vu
luxury. For the latter clefs of the people, he felt
the finccreft commiferation, for in his mind every
(billing taken from them, to be bellowed on the idle,
was a drop of blood wrung from their indullry.
He detested badges as much as the Noble Lord
oppofite to him, but they fhould not be laid aide,
fine they were neceffary to diftinguilh between
the idle and the indutlrious. The children of the
clergy were diftinguithed at their annual meetings
by badges, and no man could undertake to agent
that they were objedls at which the finger of fcorn
Ihould be pointed. He ivas at the fame time very
far from being del Potts that badges fhould be se*
neral, but he thought they ought to be retained at
checks upon idlenefs.

The CHANCELLOI, of the Exclave!' admitted
to the mama extent the purity of the motives by
which the I-ton. Gentleman whotpoke lea was
aau.itcd in hi; oppofition to the Bill. He Alfa
agreed with him, that the 43d of Elizabeth was
the foundation of the fyllem of our Poor Laws;
but he begged leave to fay, that the Ad which the
prefent went to repeal did not emanate from
that fource. He could not trace in the Ali of
IKing:William any of there benevolent features
which dillinguithed that of Elizabeth. That part
, of the Aft which required that the Poor &mild
I not he relieved unlefs they wore badges ought
certainly to be got rid of : it would no longer be
competent, if the prefect Bill palled, for any per-
fon to bring an aiftion againft the Overfeer for gr-
ing relief to perfons not wearing badges. The Ho-
nourable Gentleman feemed to think that the pre-
cedents in the tingle cafe of Sornerfetilire were not
fufficient to induce the Honk to adopt the rnea-
fore ; but it did net occur to him that funilar cafes
might hams in other counties. For his part. he
felt an abahate conviaion that the Bill was necef-
fary, and it would be a AiNea of lOW so him if it
did not pafs—and pafs without delay, The we&
Cure appeared in every refpea of the two* eligible
nature, according to the principles of contpd6ol%
and jultiee.

Sir THOMAS FRAIIIMAND fuppot
He was followed on the fame fide
Mr. ALE xxxxx a (poke in favr
The rrpmt was then ordered
further ennfideratinn I the amens
and agreed to, and the Bill was
4 third time to-morrosi.

The remaining orderi of the
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LONDON.