Star.
London, England, 1802-03-30 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr Jahn Anderfon brought up a report of the Committee an
a Petition rdattvs to improving the entrances into London.—
The Illefoletioos were agreed to, and leave was given to bring
In a MI fur reifies a Wu of money for the perm* of carrying
into elks three Adis of Parliament far improving the entrances
into the City of Landon at Temple Bar atuFSnow-hill.
In a Coanmktee on the report for the improvaneat of the
Pon of London, a refolutioo was moved by Sir John Anderfan,
that his Malefty be embodied to ordct an Wise ofsgnooi.
from the Chamberlain's Ogee, towards improving the Pon of
London, and that the tonnage duty paid to his Majefty be
combined until the aney advanced out at the Confolidated
Fund be repaid. The was agreed to, and the report
ordered to be received tmnsprrow.
Mr. Alexander brought up the report of the Committee of
Supply for the terrier of Ireland. After fevers! rcuurks From
Mr. ft/erne, the refoktions were agreed to.
Land llobotSpencer took the oaths and his feat furTaviftoch.
. .

Petitions were indented from the Boroughs or Lyon and
Warwick, praying the Repeal of the lemma Tax, and were
ordered to he laid upon the table.
Mr. Vaticinate moved far, and afterwards prefented, an A.-
count of the fonts received at the Exchequer, on the Dnty of
ititol.l.o2t. Ducks, feast the sth of January t ;Ss, to the sth
dillininladni each year.
CiriTifelgrave gave notice, that it was his Intention, after the
reccfa, to pror(e fame Refoludons to the Houle tepee:nog the
Bill, commonly called the Grenville Ad, far regaining Elm-
time. He dared the Houk to underftand, that the Refaludaos
he &add bring forward, meld Nat hi the finalleft degree trench
upon the principles of that Afit. The 014e4 a( them was to
expedite the bearing of Petitions before Committees of the
Route of Commons; and to visits fame alterations with regard
to the mode of taking Meta.

RURAL or TUX INCOT4II TAX.
The CH411011.1.011 of the Excitacissa gave no-
tice, that on Monday next he Ihould fubmit certain
Refolutions in order to raife the largeft proportion
of the loan for the fervice of the year. He begged
leave alfo to date, that it was his intention to pro-
pofe a RsrssL of the Income Tee ( Hear ! Hear!
from all parts of the Houfe). He had always en-
tertained the idea of doing fo, but the circumlian.
ces in which the country had lately been, prevent-
ed him from carrying this tntention into effect :
Peace alone could induce him to fuch a procedure,
and he felt happy that it was now in his power.—
He then moved that the Houfe mould ref olve it-
(elf into a Committee of Supply, and that the Re. .I
port of the Committee, and the feverul accounts
relative to his Majefly's Civil Lift, be referred to
the confiderPtion of the Committee.
As the queflion"was about to be put,
Sir F. Bo eaSTT gave notice, that upon this day
fortnight lie fhould bring forward a motion for an
enquiry into the cotaluEt of the late adminiftration.
The Committee was then gone into.
The CHANCILLOR of the Excatioyra.-11 Sir,
before I proceed to enter into the particulars of the
report now'on the table, or to refer more minutely
to his Ma.jefly's molt gracious Menage, upon which
it is my intention to pmpofe a refOlution, I trod
the route in a Committee will approve of not red-
ing it on the mere feelings, honourable as they are,
oialleition and attachtnent to his Majefty, but on
thole combined confiderations which cannot fail to
make the moll forcible appeal to the generofity, the
juilice, and the wifdons of the Houle: Before !en-
ter upon thefe topics, I am defirous of being in•
dulged with the attention of the Committee while
I advert to another part of the queftion, which ap-
pears to me neceiary to be fird dated to the Com-
mittee. I cannot. Bir, but derive the greateft
fatif-
faEtion from the confideration of our being now in
that dite in which Irian enabled to contemplate a
clue fliou deeply i nterelliog to the fubjeasof thiscoun-
try, in a way that affords the molt ample room for
Jilcuffion; we have now on the table of the Houfe of
Commous a report containing all the information
which it was poffible for the various offices connect-
ed with his Mujedy's civil lift to furnifh, and cer-
rainly all that can be neceffary to enable the Houle to
cometo a full examination of this fubjea. I derive
the greater fatisfaEtion from the cirtunaftanceofthe
report being on the table, in as much as the Houfe
w id have, what it never has had before, a pla in, clear,
and latistidory Itatement of what really are the
charges and expenses ofhis Majefty's civil lift. The
report will alfo furnith a complete rawer to the
°Nervations and comments of ignorant and dif-
needed perfons. It will appear that a very in-
confiderable portion indeed, when compared with
the liatements whir.ll have been made, is applied
to the perfisnal ufe and-enjoyment °Phis Majefty.
I rejoice that we have a document which will put
all doubt atreft. I trnft that the Report will have
the alit of not Gentlase 46116116u*

1%1 they are above giving way to filch inistrimi•
fnmaifitions, but thole per(.us who have bei:ii.ine
• a by ignorance, to look into their errors, aml to
becorae defiraus of correding them. I hope it wil!
no longer be Rated, after the Report Grill have
been gone into, that his Majelty enjoys advantages
arifing lion; Income of Revenue beyond thufe
his illearious Prcdecellins. I will to call the at-
tention of the Committee to the circumilaiices
which attended the Kings of this Country in pail
times. Let us recoiled what poll Bois, applica-
ble as fourccs of revenue, were enjoyed by the So.
vereigns of this Country in former timei,ani then.
Confider what is the amount of the Civil Litt Ede
blilhment, which Come have invidiotilly contralted
with thole revenue& The Sources of revenue an-
ciently enjoyed by the Kids% of England, not only
were calculated to fill theecoffers of the Mouatchs
who poteffed them, but alto to enable them to op-
piece their fubjeds ; for when their revenues were
in their own hends, they had the kfs occafi ~,, to
apply to this Houfe,and Parliament confequently
had but feldom the opportunity of exercifing that
invaluable privilegeh can alone iufure our
falety—i-the privilege of impsling a eefiraint on the
abufes of the Executive Goverumeni .oftliceoun-
try- His Majelty on the throne had the power of
applying any part of his revenue to his own ci.ur-i
, perks, either in a manner offenfive to the people 'oil
the country, or for purporee of prodigality and!
corruption. It was only, Sir, in the commence-
ment of the reign of Charles the Second that
eftimates were introduced as means of contionl
on the expenditure of the public revenue. It
was in the time of Charles the Second that the
right of Purveyance andPre-emption was given ep
as a fource of enriching the King-for the purpqk
of relieving
.the people of this country from a pre-
rogative fo injurious, a price was to be paid for it
by Parliament, in confequence of which an here,
ditary revenue was granted in lieu of it. I men-
tion this rather incidentally, the main purpofe be-
ing to eftablifh the point that the wl;ole of the
King's hereditary revenue cenfifts of the grant to
Charles the Second, for the abolition of the Court
of Wards, and the privilege of purveyance and
pre-emption. That there was a difpofition to
throw into the lap of the two fucceeding Kings al
confidereble part of the revenue of the country, I
allow; and at the commencement of the reign of
William the Third, it was fubmitted to Parliament
whether his Majelty, joie Corms, was in the flos-
don which entitled him to that revenue which had
belonged to the people of England. The Com-
mons happily abttained from coming to a decition.
I fay happily, for it was perhaps the calif,: of a
very large portion of the land of the country find-
ing its way to the polfsilion of the fnl?jeds. Par-
liament having refutid to fay whether the King
jars Corosur was entitled to the revenue of his pre-
deceffors, proieeded to eftablifh a Civil Lift. They
gave to King William an annual Civil Litt, at the
tame time endeavouring to afcertain what were
the expences of the houfchold and ettahlifhment of
his Majelty. I am as inclined as any one can he
to adopt the opinion expreffed by an Hon. Gentle-
man in this Houle on a former night, that if a
Civil Lilt is granted it thould be rendered perma-
nent, bat I am alfo perfuaded that the principle
cannot be uniformly applied. The very plirpole
for which a Civil Lift is granted implies the impolli-
bill!), of its being ablolutely permanent. It is grant-
eci tor the purpofe of the fplendor of the Crown, and
the dignity of the Executive Government; and in the
courfe of a long reign circumflances mull occur ip
which its expences mutt neceffarily be increated or
diminifhed. The tepid increafe of the wealth and
the ex tenfion of the commerce of the country haVe
hitherto prevented any deereafe in the expences of
the Civil Litt, and I have no hefitation in laying,
they have jullified the augmentation which has
been made to It. In 1697 we find a Civil Lift
Eltablifhment was firft permanently fettled, and
the aggregate of it was at that time 680,0001. At
the aecellion of Q4een Anne it was 700,0001.—in
fad the amount or it was near,oool. but it was
charged with the payment of de 9oobts, by which it
was reduced to the former fum. During her reign
there was one inftance of an application to Parlia-
ment to relieve the excefs of the Civil Lift. In
the reign of George the Firft, the average ex-
peaces of the Civil Lift were about 800,0001. Ap-
plication was made to Parliament in his reign for
relief. At the acceilion of George the Second,
the various branches of revenue which had
been voted to Anne and George the Firft were
alto voted to the King on the Throne ; but it was
ftipulatcd that Parliament was to make good any
deficiency below 800,0001. When his prefent
Majelty came to the Throne, many erroneous
opinions had - been entertained that the re-,
venue enjoyed by his late Majelty, and which
would have been readily granted her Parliament
to his prefcnt Majelty, washii hereditary revenue,
which he was entitled.to in right of his Crown.
The error was this—that the hereditary reVitlllt
iconfitted in nothing more than what was given to
'Charles the Second in lieu of the Court orWartts,
Pre-emption, Tonnage, and other Royal Preroga.
lives. There was, however, no doubt in ti:e mind
of. Parliament with regard to giving his Majeily
the fame as had been enjoyed by his predecetrors:
It is well known his Majelty Was fully. Perithtded
there was filch en intention on the part of his Par-
linmeet ; had the fad been otherwife, the Houli:
would have been left juft towards his ;staidly than
former Parliaments had beenwith regard to his prey
deceffors. In confequence, no doubt, of his Ma-
lefic being aware of the Sentiments of Parliament,
a Meffage was brought loon after his acceftion, by
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, flating., that
hit Malays ever stefirous of giving a proof of
fineere regard for the welfare of his peoele, left
itio his (wailful Commons in making pros ifion for
the fupport of the dignity of his Crown, to arrange
Each difpofitione and fettle fuch a fum fcr the ex-
pences of his Hpufehold and Civil Lift as would
heft Alit the interelts of the public. The conduit
of his Majelty in giving up his hertelitary rights,
and leaving it to ftrliament to provide the whcile
of his revenue, hai been Galled by Sir William
Illackftoae a proof of the molt dahlia-died boun-
ty, and in confequence of it Parliament of igned a
nvaaae of 9cioeooole a year, fubjed to life ennui-

tic; to the Prince( Dowager of Weirs. th
Amelia, and the Duke of Cumber. .
amounting to 7c,0001. Tr could not (and it,,:
it was foretold) happen otherwite than that in ..
courte of a long period growing. incumhtani
would :trite, which would render it necetlary'l
his Majelly to report to the liberality of Parlii
!neut. Accordingly in 1769, an application was
made to this Ht'ufe, in coistequence of which h
teraut of 513,5 t tl. was made to his Majeay to
make good the arrears of his Civil Lilt. In r,
oo,ocol. was granted for the fame porpote. in
1776, the incumbrances arifing from an
create of expences, which were hourly growing
upon him, were fuch that his Majeßy was reduced
to the neeeffity of making another application to
Padiarrient, and a fum of 618,34. was granted to
relieve him from ais difficulties. In 1784 there was
a further rent of 60.0001. and in 17860f210.0001.
Thewhole tom, therefore, that has been granted
at different periods to pay off the Excefs of the
Civil Lid Expences has been 1,533,5111. I would
a& whether the fums which have been granted to
'hie /staidly on account or the arrears of the Civil
Li*. lip to the prelent, time, when the fitttatuut
and circumlbinces of his family are taken into con.
federation, and when we advert to the ft t, that
the country, during the whole of the period, has
been advancing in wealth and profperity, is a fum
which, added to the amount of the. Civil Lift of
each year, was capable of producing a revenue
equal to what was enjoyed by Annd, or George I.
or IL We have arrived then at a period whoa
his Majelly is again under the neceinty of requir-
ing the :alliance of the Houfe. The courfe that
has been taken will, Pam perfuaded, be confiderea
by the Houfe with lati.ladion, if not with grate
tude, as meaning to eut the Houfe in potreflio* of
the moll complete information, and leave na room
Gn• cavil or doubt by the concealment of any thing
that could in the Icait tend to elucidate the fubjeta.
His Majelly having cep-died himfelf moil gra-
cioutly on his Meffage to the Houle, and requetted
that the objed of it might be taken into contider-
arien, it was thought necellary that a Committee
ftiould be appointed. A Committee has been ap-
pointed, and the fubjeat has been invelligated in a
manner adapted to the with of his Majelly. They
have unravelled the whole of the accounts; they
have Rated whatever was calculated to render them
clear and capable 9f being fully underllood. They
had no authority to offer any opinion of their own
—they have net offered any—they have made no
oblervations whatever except fuch as were necef-
fary to enable the Knife to comprehend the accounts
fubmitted to them. This leads me to the centider-
ation of the accounts themfelves, and whatever
may be the feelings of regret by which I am aaa-
ated, and painful as it may be to me to rellea that
if the Committee lhall adopt the Refolution I (hall
have the honour to propofe, it will predate a con-
iiderable additiOn to the burthens of the People, I
aniperfuaded the Committee will neither ditcover
in the report or the accounts the flighteft impute-
tian of miainanagement with refpeet to his Maier.
ty's Houfehold—eof,earruption in any quarter—or
of profttlinn: in the difpofition of any part of the
him allotted to the expellees of the Civil Lill. Un-
der thole heads of charge of which the Houfe is
juftly molt jealous, namely, Pentions and Salaries,
there has been a very confiderable reduation. It
appears that in comparing the increafe and decreafe
with regard to the petitions and allowances to the
Royal Family, the &II chats of the Civil Lift Are
counts, the total increafe above the ellimate is
45,1831. In the fecond slats, which refers to "the
(Aeries ofthe Chancellor, Speaker, and Judges, there
is a decreafe of 2,9871. below the eftimate. In the
third clefs, oomprahending the titlarks to Minaters
refident at Foreign Courts, there is an encreafe of
129,6431. In the fourth clafs,containing the charge
for Tradefmen's Bills, the excels on the whole
amounts to 74,0901. In the ph clots, the charge
for the Menial Servants of his Majefty's Houk-
bold, there is a decreafe of 1,6051. In the firth
clefs or Petition Lill, there is, on the whole
account, a decreafe to the amount of 114,4021.
In the 7th Clafs, comprifing the falaries-payable
out of the Civil Lift Revenues, there has been a
gradual diminution, by which there has been a for.
mg of 129.7501. The Bth Clefs, containing the
falaries of the Commiffioners of the Treafury, and
Chancellor of the Fpxchequer. admits of neither ex.
cefs or diminution. Under the head Occafional
Payments, there is an increafe of 1,047,5871. the
particulars of which are ftated in the Report of
your Committee. I with the Committee, in ad-
verting to the Civil Lift expenditute, to divide it
into two branches—the hoafelsold, and Civil Litt
Eftahlahment, and I am perfuaded it will expe-
rience tome degree of furprife that the increaleft
aspences of the former are fo fmall as they appear
to be. It is, impel:Die for any individual who is
obliged to preterite an appearance of rank, who of
late years has been able to do fo, out of fit little
al at the period when the prefent Civil Litt Was
granted to his Majelly. When Gentlemen refer
to their experience of the increafed value of every
article in the courfe of the hail two or three
years, and when they reflex on all the circ urn-
fleece* of the times. I am Pure the excels will be
readily accounted for. I defire to have it under.
llood. that I do. not mean to attribute the excels fo
much. to the war, as many other perfons may he
inclined to do. It will be recolleaed that during
the war there, have been three years of fcarcity.
Many of the articles to which the expenditure dials
litajetty's civil fill refers,have certainly beat: inert:ac-
ed by the. war, but not in the way Gentlemen hive
Rated. However fatisfatlory the accounts are in
one point of view, they mull be a fubjea of regret
and flume on the other, becaufe it. is
for the Committee not to be fenfible what dittitea.
ty his Majefty rot& have experienced with regard
to his honfehold. I am fully aware there are ma-
ny parts of the accounts which ought to rcc..ave
ettplanation—it is not, however, my intention 4
at prettnt to enter into the various articles wild)
compote the accounts, unlefs I am called upon
fo to do by the Committee—there are, however,
leveret articles which I feel it incumbent on me to
advert to. In page 52 it will appear, that part of
the debt is the debt under .the lirft clefs, inclel.
iag gla debts incurred by the (keen, on we...a it

.1

r! the younger branches of her. family. When it
i- contidered whit is the number, and time of
lie of the younger branches of the Royal Tami-
l. ; Am] that the expence on their account fall,
excitifively on the Queen, it will be no fmall
nutter of aftonilliment that the debt fhould
have amounted to no more than a fum of
28,5341. A very large portion of this arofe upon
the marriage of the Prince of Wales. In the
I:tme page will be found a charge for the Prineefs
Charlotte. It is made to. commence in 1797,
though it was not advanced till a later period.
---I am fure it will be felt by the Commit
tce, that it is quite impoffible the expence of
fapporting the Princefs Charlotte fhould he
b,.rile by the Prince of Wales, conficiering the
refiriaions to which he is fubjeit by the Aft of
Parliament for arranging the liquidation of his
debts. It will perhaps he for the Committee to
fay, whether it is not a charge that ought to be
taken from the Civil Lift altogether and thrown
on the Confblidated Fund ? It is a charge that
cannot be borne by the Prince of Wales, and ought
not to be impofed upon his Majefty. I beg the
attention of the Committee to pages 3e.• and 40,
rekrring to the pentions to the late Mmiders at
fore:ln Courts. I am well aware that (-time fur-
ther infra Illation is =entry. Ample information
will be given; and whatever deficiency there may
b.: is mine, will be Supplied by my Noble Friel's!
/..:.ir roe. I will ohfervc that with regard to Fo.
',Owl Miaitlers refident, it has been univerially
a,!mitted the ellimate made in 1735, was infuf-
fit iota. The pennons of the late Miniffers at fo-
rt inn Courts have increafed confiderably within the
lal two years; yet, notwithilanding the increafe
v hiJa has taken place within the lad two years is
f' conliderable, the aelual increafe in the lall
ft'itecit years amounts to no more than 129,6431.
There is another branch which falls under the
head of Ciscational Payments. The Committee
ratceiviug there was an error of 20,0001. thought
it right to avail themfelves of the information con-
tained in the book required to be kept by Mr.
Burke's BM. In page 46 of the report will be
found the amount of Royal Bounties. IC is.not
my intention to °Kerte on the advances to the
Royal Family, though fatisfaftory reafons can be.
Hgiven for them. I can hate with truth to the
oufe, that under the preffure and difficulty which
exitted with regard to the Rate of his Majefly's
Hour:hold and Civil Lill, I conceive his Majefty's
Nlini tiers would have been little lets than criminal
if they had not adopted tome method of relief. I
am unwilling to enter into particulars, unlets call-
ed upon, but lam prepared. His Majefty's Mi-
Miters had no alternative between {the one they
have adopted, and the crimitrality of expolim his
Majetiv to inconvenience and difficulty. There
is another charge, namely, the law expences which
have been incurred during the continuance of the
late war: I !mow Gentlemen differ as to the caufes
of thole law expenses. Ceitainly for the lag
nine years they have been confiderably augment-
ed ir, confequen ce of the pmeeed ings agamnperfons
for feditious praitiees. I underhand there is a eon-
fal:rable difference of opinion with regard to the
to itteiple of Mr. Burke's 13ill, not haying been ftri.-
lv adhered to. I am tore no cane can read thatlint'
without obferving that the words of it are to ob-
fcitre and loot that it is inspoffible to attach any
&finite meaning to them. It appears, in calling
up the various articles tithe debt under the teveral
chafes of the Civil Lift Expenditure, that the ag-
gregate erects of the Civil Expenditure is 885,9651.
tf there is added the charge for the Princefs Char-
lotte, and the other charges I have alluded to,
the excels will amount to 990,0511. When the
Committee is propofing to relieve his Majelly, it
can hardly be meant to withhold the advances on
accotint of the Princefs Charlotte ; and if it Should
be the pleafure of the Houfe to grant a fum to the
whole amount of the debt, I am ready to admit
the inflallments Should be carried to the Confoli-
dated Fund. The amount, as I have hated, will
be 993,0521. a fum not to be contemplated without
?egret, but which is confiderably diminifhed by the,
confideration that it is neceffary—that there has,
been no prodigality or corruption—and that it is a
large proportion of the price necettary to be paid
for the advantages of Civil Government. I would
ail Gentlemen, if there are any who with to
animadvert on the Civil Lin, witether.frorn what
they have teen or heard they can refer any part
of the expence to wanton profulion ? Have we
fern any more of the fplendour of royalty than
st hat is pleating to us to (+levee ? We have teen
only that degree of fplendour which belongs to
the Chief Magiftrate. Sure I am, that the loyal
elingz of the country have been rather difep-
pOinted than fatiated at the difplay of royal fplen-.
dour exhibited by his Majelly. I would ant the
Committee, whether they do not confider the fum
required as a proof that a greater degree of teco-
nomy has been obferved fince the let application
to Parliament ? If it Should be the pleafure of the
Houle to adopt the refolution I !hall propok, a
heavy burthen will certainly fall on the people of the
country.—lt will be reconciled that 'I on a former
night expreffed a hope that the public burthens
might be letfened by the fele of the Crown Lands,
in the Wed Indies; but if no fuch refource was to
he found, the payment of the arrears of the Civil
Lin would be no lets the duly of the Houfe.—
They ought to be paid without taking into con-
fideration any means of alleviating the public
but thens by the tale of the Lands to the Nand
of St. Vincent. It is impoffible for his. Ma9efiy,
oclefs fame relief is granted him, to maintain
that tpleadour which is neceftary. I Should there-
rae hope that the relief moll likely to :newer
the willies of the Committee will be by transferring
(tom the Civil Lin certain articles which do not
helong to it to the Confolidated Fund. The fever
r.,1 heath of expence which have operated unrea-
l; mably with regard.° his Majeay might be trent-
ferred, Co as not to be felt in any contiderable de-,
erso- by the country. lam not aware that it is '
I..:et-tary few me to add any *ins more t I !hall :
tkerefore conclude by moving, 0 that it lithe opi-
'lion of this Committee the Mtn of 990,0501. be
r 'anted to his Ma' fly to elifeharge the arrears on,
.the debt dpe ow% ea the Civil IA on thr
Oa 41401110.
anis.
••

.Mr. F0L...." I declare tliat I am as little di pof•
ed as any man in this Hoofer° abridge the proper
fplendour of the Firft esttgiftrate of the country ;
and upon this occafinn I am as little inclined to en-
ter into any revere ferntiny of the items of his ex-
penditure. Upon this day indeed, particularly, I
feel myfelf incapable of any degree of ill humour,
foltwoof the bell pieces of news which have reached,
this country for come years, have this day been re-
ceived to fet me in good humour, and to cocoa-
rage my hopes for the happinefs of the people. I
had fcarcely alighted from my can ge when t
heard of the arrival of the Definitive Treaty, and
fince I have entered this Houfe, I have heard with
much pleafure, the Right Hon. Gentleman an-
nonneelri s intention of moving the Repeal of a Tait,
themult obnoxious in principle, and .21e moil mill
chievous in prattice, that ever was impofed on the
people of England ; a Tax which has been produc-
tive of all the confequences, and even worfe than
were foretold at the time it was enaaed.—l ans
glad that the Minifter propofes to introduce that
motion, which probably I fhould be very fitortly
sailed upon to fubmit to the Houfe. This inten-
tion is .not lefs calculated to procure refpca for
the Government, than to relieve the people from a 1,
molt (cycle preffure. Ifitall not be (tibial to the fur
pkion of wanting a due refpea for the Monarchy,
or a just attachment to the Monarch, if in obedi.
ence to the duty I owe to my Conftitueuts I (hall
*Ave to exprefs my difapproval of this extraordi-
nary application. The Right Hon. Gentleman in
the early part of his fpeech entered into a hiftary
of the hereditary revenue of the Crown, in which
his ideas and mine are materially different; how-I
ever, the question is not at all relevant to that now
before die Houfe. What the hereditary revenue ,
may hAsie been previous to the Revolution, is not
dow for us to confider : the principle is entistly
I changed fince the Civil Litt was granted in lieu
of that I evenue in the reign of William the,
Third. With that reign and tbofc fince, could
a fair companion be made as to the receipt and I
expenditure of the Civil Lift with that of his
prefent Majefty—l beg it may be remembered,
that the hereditary revenue of the Crown previ-
ous to the Revolution was not merely for the ex-
pence of the Monarch's houfehold—not merely for
the private expencesof the Government—if that re-
venue was confiderable, it was riddled with expences
that were confide' able alfo. The'Crown had out
of it to provide for the defence of the country, and
to prepare fleet, and armies ; therefore. that reve-
nue was quite different in its nature and applica-
tion frotn that of the Civil Lift, and of courfe the
Right Hon. Gentleman's analogy was incorrea.—
Whether the fyftem ofhereditary revenue was bet-
ter than that of the Civil Lift, I (hall not now at-
tempt to difcufs : the bufinefs is finally decided—
it has been thought wife that the public fhould take
into its own hands the bufinefs of protecting the
country, and of ma,nriging the national revenue, al
lowing to the Crown an adequate fum for the main-
tenance of its dignity and confequence, in time of
war or peace. Thus the people relieved the Crown
from the contract it was under to provide for the
defence of the nation out of the hereditary revenue,
and they rendered that revenue completely fubjea
tv their own controul. This arrangement, it was,
hoped, would tend more firmly to efiablith the
authority of the Houfe of Commons, and render
the affairs of the Crown lefs liable to confufion
or embarraffinent. In the reign of James H. the

hereditary revenue amounted to two millions; but
from the manner in which that revenue was to be
applied, the Hoare will fee that it has no con-
netlion with the prefent queftion ; we can only
commence our enquiry and comparifons with the
ettablithment of the Civil Lift, which invelied the
Crawls with the right of difpoling of a certain fum
of the public mono, without fubmitting its expen-
diture to examination—a right which was accoro-
ponied by an implied injundion not to contra@
debts. The:Right Hon. Gentleman teems to think
.that William 111. had no right to the hereditary
revenue of the Crown, becaufe he was not the di-
red dercendant of James IL and certainly he was
not; but he was chofen by the nation to govern;
and upon the fame ground his prefent Majefty has
no title to that hereditary revenue, for he is not
the defeendant of James. I rather hope, as I should
with, that as his authority defends from the right,
fo he inherits the principles of William. When
' the Civil Lift was firft faded, certain revenues
were fit apart, which were calculated to produce
po,nool. a year; and if thefe revenues should pro-
duce more, the excels was properly under the
contrail' of Parliament, and to be appropriated
by them. Whether it is wirer to grant the
Civil Lift from time to time, or to fettle it at
the beginning of a reign, I fhall not now enter
into, but certainly the wifdom of the latter
plan, which is .that as yet aded upon, will not
appear Co deferving of preference or praite, if,ip-
mations are to be thus frequently made to Par-
'amert to difcharge the debts improvidently con-
traded.by the Monarch ; or to fupgly the want of
judgment and forefight in the Parliament, by whom
the quantum -of the Civil Lift may have been fixed
at die commencement of that Monarch's reign.—.
I approve of the plan once adopted of paying the
debts of the Civil Litt by laying a tax of 6d. in the
pound on all penfions and &lanes ; this was en-
abling the Civil Lift to difcharge its own debts,
and relenting the public from any incumbrance.—
This 'is the mode, or forrrething fimilar, which
ought to be retorted to on this occaGon. The Civil
Lilt in George the Second's reign, amounted to
Soo,oooL a year, &hied to life annuities to the
Dowager Princes of Wales, Princefs Amelia, and
the Duke of Cumberland ' • thefe annuitants dying
Coon after the accetfion of his prefent Majefty, the
Civil Lift was fo mach Iscreafed. As his Majefty
has contraded loch 'debts, it would, in my opinion.]
he becoming the elevation of his rank, and the
honour of his eharader, to-adopt thole retrench-
ments, which almoft every man in the nation has
been bliged of late years to [obi* to, in order to
meet the grefure of the tirna. This opinion may
appear rather rigid ; but with the utmoft deft.'
rence for the Monarch, it is my fixed judgment.-
It cannot be pretended that the Civil lilt at the be-,
ginning of the prefent_reign was fetaledWithout eal-
-61 1
tip 1111118841113011 t of the es.l
._l_3!_l_,

celfaries ofl;re,and the depreeiationotmoney. The
Ilrati on which then !welded, confllletfor men'
dillinguillied not lets fur their talents than fdir their
perfonal attachment to the King. Among then,
were the Duke of Newcattle, Lord Bute, and the
late Earl of Chatham, and furely it cannot be flip
poled that they were likely to propofe an bade-
plate eflahlitliment : but even rumpling it pro-
bable, which I do not, as I think no perfon fair-
ly confidering the liihjea and the chandler of
thole men can, it will be recolleaed that only nine
years after the acceltion of the King, application
was made to Parliament to pay off a debt of be-
tween five and fix hundred thoufand pounds—at
that time Mr. Tucker, a Gentleman dame's lite-
rary celebrity, wrote a pamphlet in defence of the
application, contending that if a man of fix or
(even hundred a year Ihould only contrad a debt
of eight hundred pounds within the aril nine
years after his marriage, he could norbe charged
with much extravagance •, and applied this to I
the cafe of his Majefty, dwelling upon the expences
to which his Majesty was expled at that period.
Eight years after, in 1777, Minitters again came
iforward with another claim on the public for the
debts of the Civil Lift, which the Minority of that
day in this Hook, among whom were Sir George I
Saville and myfelf.oppofea, upon the fame grounds
; that I oppote this day the motion of the Right I
Hun. Gentleman, namely, that Miniflers ought to
accommodate the expenditure of the Civil Lift to
the amount fixed by Parliament, and not attempt
to contract debts, in the hope that Parliament
would afterwards difcharge them. Upon the oc-
cation I allude to in 1777, Sir Fletcher Norton,l
the Speaker of the Houfe of Commons, dated at
the bar of the Houfe of Lords, that the Commons
had granted to his Majesty a fum much beyond
his expectation, and confidering the burthens of
the country, much beyond what he had a right to
expect. What, I will ask, in the prefect situation of
the country, ought to be the language of the
Speaker ado:hefting hisMajelly on a hinilar fubjed,
far furely the burthens of the country at that time
' were fo trifling, that to compare them with thole
of the prefect day, would be like to Florus,the Ro-
o man Hittorian, talking in the period of the Roman
greatners.of the triumph oftheirarms over the Volsci
and theVientis. Upon there burthens I (hall not now'
dwell,though it is my confirmed opinion that they
are too heavy for this nation long to endure—
Recurring to the fpeech of Sir Fletcher Norton
—the (bong and just fentiments he employed were
highly alarming to the fycophalits of that day—to
an expretlion of Mr. Burke's, there appeared to be
an infurration among the Courtiers ; but the
fpeech was to much applauded that even the Mi-
nillers felt it prudent to join in the praife it !weir.
ed. It was generally considered to become the
charafter of the Houle of Commons, whore organ
he was, to be a vindication of their condua in
granting fo large a fum of the public money ; and
to afford fume guarantees againit a repetition of
fuch claims—how vain the hope ! In order that
the Houle and the Minifters may feel.the force of
this celebrated fpiech, Itfhall move it to be read."
--[The Clerk read the fpeech from the Journals.]
—Mr. Fox returned, " The illuftrious charafter
who pronounced thefe fentiments, notwithaand-
ing the manner in which it was at the time
cried down by Conflict.; was five years after—
wiles' Peerages were more fparinglydiftributed than
of late years—advanced to the dignity of the Peer-
! age ; rn fad, during the Admitiaration of the
Marquis of Buckingham only four Peers were
created, and Sir Fletcher Norton was one of them.
Many debts contraaed by the Civil Lift fince that
period, and particularly fince the enactment of Mr.
Burke's Civil Lift Bill, are, in my conception, in
diredirectoppofition to the will of Parliament—which
no perfons in this country ought to difobey—any
excels fince added to that debt, by whomfoever that
addition may have been made, is a mifdemcanour.
It was the duty of Minifters, if it became indifisen-
fible to contra& a debt, to apply to Parliament be-
fore fuels a debt was contraeted. Such a conduit
would have been more confillent with the reined
due to Parliament, than to contra& the debt &It,
and apply thus for the payment afterward. With
the Right Honourable Gentleman's interpreta-
tatien of Mr. Burke's Bill, I completely differ.—
[Here Mr. Fox explained his conception of this
Bill as to the payment of the different aides of
creditors to the Civil Lift ; and an tetrad from
the Bill was read.] He proceeded—" Some evil
was got rid of by Mr. Burke's Bill, but it did not
operate to prevent, at was expeaed, any ruble-
quent application to Parliament for aid—for it
now appeared, than though the Civil Lift was
railed in 1777, from Soo,qool. to 900,0001. a year,
the debt fince that increafe of revenue had been
even more than during the &It feventeen years of
his Majefly's reign, when' he had only Bco,oool. a
year. rhe Houk ought to put an end to fuels ap.
plications as thefe; and the country ought to tin-
derlland what the real amount of the Civil Litt
was to be. If the fettlernent of the Civil Litt for
life he effential to the independence and fecurity
of Monarchy, in order that it thould not be under
the neceffity of coming to Parliament for, ecca-
tional grants, it was rather odd, that during the
prefent reign. not lcfs than four limb grants had
beets applied for. The Right Hon. Gentleman
has laid much flrefs on the difference of expense
in time of war and peace ; but wby has the Houfe
heard nothing of the Civil Lift debts throughout
the courfe of the fall war ? Perhaps it was appre,
hended that if that debt was to be attributed to
the war, it would add too much to the other caufcs
of complaint which contributed to render that war
fo univerfally unpopular. It ought, however, to
be recollected, that the Civil Litt has not, in any
inftance, been arranged upon iworpeCi of an um-
form peace eftablifhment ; they would be poor po-
liticians who Would lo calculate. To King Wil-
liam, Queen Anne, and George the Firft, it was
granted at periods of impending aaual war; there-
fore it has been generally provided fo at to meet
all, probable occafions.—l. profets myfelf a friend
to the proper fplendour of the Throne, but-cannot
think that its fpkndour is belt fnpported by run
ning in debt, and callift on the country at a period
of great national didgefi to liquidate ice debt. Will
PT MIA RAM ;bit the Newby oft 7t7. or s 7060.

were not aware of the wants and In it torten(' nig of
the Crown. They granter, a Civil Lift accarclitue. y,
and it would be remount to the purpok for which
that Civil Litt was fo voted, thus to interfere, and
by Welting to new pretenfion., give rife to new
and dangerous precedents-epeececk•nts which are
Ihrirtafaci• criminal, inalmuch as they are obvinuf-
ly oppofite to a pofitive liatute. Mini,t thould
be compelled to confine the expence of the Civil
Lift within its income ; for they have taken upon
them to do that which does net belong to them;
they have taken upon them to fay that tt was irn-
poffibk for the Civil Lift to be fuftained by the al-
lowance it polfeffed front Parliament. It might be
fo—but Parliament fhould have raid In, not the
Minifters. They theuld not affnme to be the
better judges of what was right to be done—they
Ithould at leaft condekend to itfk the opinion of
Parliament upon the fubjeft. If I were to give
an opinion upon the redudion of this deht,lfhoulfr
fay, if it is merely temporary—that is to fay,
siting out of temporary caufes,limit your expences
fur a (tort time,: and create a fund to difcharge it ;
but if it arises out of the inadequacy of the per-
manent revenue, call upon Parliament to advance
it. As to the falaries upon the Civil Lift, they, in
fiat, have not been increafed for years back.—
The Celery of a Lord of the Treafury, or of a Se-
cretary of State, is the fame now as in the reign
of Charles the Secood. The increafe of trader-
men's bills I mull fuppofe to produce this fo much
complained of rife in the debts. Thefe bills un-
doubtedly mutt be provided for. I fhould re-
luaantly real their payment, but I confers they
appear to me in a very quellionable (hape. I admit
I du not underhand the report of the Committee,
nor does it feem to me poffible for any man accu-
rately to examine the items, in order to form a fair
judgment of their nature. However, I (hall re-
mai k upon a few of them, which ftrike me as very
prominent indeed. Among the fiat I mutt men-
tion the nepointment of a third Secretary of State,
the neceitty for which, particularly fine the lots
of America, was never perceived until it became
necetfary to form a coalition with certain Members
of Oppolition in £793. As to the expence of cm-
baffles, it appeared that in 179 t, when the public
opinion was too decided to allow the Minifter
to go to war with Ruffia, he thought proper to
fend Mr. Fawkener to Peterlburgh, to tell the Em-
prefsthathe was ready to give upUczakow, though
Lord Whitworth, our Ambaffador and a very able
negotiator, was on the fpot, and could have told
the (tory quite as well. Here was an unneceffary ex-
pence. Again, we had Come bufinefs to fettle at
Berlin : a Member of this Houfe was fent to at:
range it, though we had an Ambaffador relident
there. At Copenhagen alto, fomething occur.
red that induced the Miniher to fend Lord Whit-
worth there to negotiate with the Danifh Court.
There too we had a refident Minifter at the time ;
and yet Lord Whitworth, who a few years be-
fore was not thought fit to make a bow to the
Emprefs of Ruffia, was difpatched to do the
duty of another Minifter. So much for double
Ambatradors. I have found out fo many items
of extravagance, and I dare fay there are Sco
more, if the nature of the account did not make
it impoffible for any other than a Minifter to point
them out. Tbefe taken into aecotutt, with the
unnece(fary Secretarylhip of State, fwell the debt
of the Civil Lift not a little. With reference to
this office, I remember that Lord Chatham, when
really in an infirm hate of health, managed the
whole of the bufinefs of the office, for which the
late miniftry thought two Secretaries neceffary,
and that that Noble Lord concluded the (even
years war, at leaft with as much eclat as the late
Minifter at War concluded the affairs of the army
during the late unhappy conteft. Why then fhould
this fuperfluous office have been created ? if fuch a
q ue ft io n h ad been put At the timethe officer W 2 s about
to be appointed, polfibly the anfwerwou Id have been,
I will do it; and, though I have not money to pay
for it, I have good friends that will—the Houfe of
Commons :—they are exceedingly liberal—aye,
but would it not be prudent to allk them fire? No,
I will rely on their kindnefs ; they have Come
friends to provide for, fome young lons whom I
can oblige, and they in return, will not hefitate to
compliment me—l will, therefore, ere.sl the office
now, as it feemsneceilary to extend thy influence,
though I am not able to pay for it; and by and by,
when Peace comes, I (hall be able to get the mo-
ney from the Houk of Commons. The partiality
to the Civil Litt which has fo generally appeared,
cannot have efcaped notice ; it was particularly
more remarkable in the cafes of Lord Grenville
and Mr. Dundas, one of whom was appointed
Treafurer of the Navy, and the other Auditor of
the Exchequer—but they declined, very honoura.
Ibly, no doubt, to accept the pay of the two offices ;
and in order to make a laving to the Civil Lift,
they took from it only as much in addition to the
falaries of their new appointments as was neceffary •
to make up the falary of Secretary of State—thus
there was a favi9g to the Civil Lilt of Scoot. which
in fad ought to be a laving to the public. Thefe
land filch things ought to be enquired into. With
regard to the affairs of the Prince of Wales, I muff,
as far at they are conneded with this fubjed,
make Come remarks upon them. If the price of
proviftons has been railed, and the value of money
depreciated—if tradefmen's demands have been
ruled, why fhould not all thefe confederations
plead as powerfully in favour of his Royal High-
nela as in favour of his Majefty ; yet when you
'advanced his Royal Highn'efs's revenue to fiery
tboufand pounds a-year, he was induced to pro-
nounce that he would be contented with that; and
me his marriage, when you raifed it to tas,oool.
a-year, you, availing yourfelves of the words which
had been drawn from a young 'man, infilled, that
as his revenue was doubled, the furplus above
ticeoool. a-year Mould be appropriated to the mine.
tion of his debts; you did not apprehend that this re:
guletion would interfere with the fplendour neeefe
iary for the HeirA p parent to the throne to maintain.
It might be Laid, that he ought to Corer), that fplen-
dour in order to become capable of dirchargios
tbe debts he bad contraesd, it is very rrnai.bot
why is not the fame rule applied to ha MajAity
,He was npt lea bound by tbs A& of Pallid:lent
Mt to mum, Mel" fteruitearoo P 7, 11402

'

the t'r'ice was by hi:: word. In .hoofing between
two tails, let us chook the leaft,and certainly lets
tnifcluel will tcfult to the tottatrr frorn a tempo-
rary abridgement of that royal fPleadottr, gaud,
I agree with the Right Hon. Gentleman, has ne-
ver been very confpictious of late, than tff tief-
paffing on the already too much &prated funds
of the public., for the payment of a million of
debt. If the Houfe determines on paying only
a certain part of this demand, I hope the claims
of the tradefinen will be &It attended to ; that
the claims of jutlice will precede thofe of gene-
rotor, and that if any daft of creditors (hall be
overlooked, it will be thole by whole imprudence
the debt of the Civil Lift has lb enormoulle accu-
mulated. With the return' of peace I trult we
than have to witnefs alfo tile return of liberality
and juftiee ; and that a mail than not be confider-
ed.lefs a friend to Monarchy, becaufe he lhould
differ in opinion with Minifters, or oppofe even
the fentlments of the Monarch. If in cunfidering
the growth of the debt of the Civil Lift, 1 ihould
be told that it was natural to exiled that it flmuld
advance in proportion to the debt of the nation,
or the expence of the war, I (tumid fay, if there
was to be any, proportion, it ought to be In an in-
srerfe ratio. Ido not think the influe.pce of the
Crown would Coffer much by abolifhing many of
to offices in the houfehold which appear to be
perfea finccures. Such, and like meafures,
would loon operate to remove the embarraffinents
of the Civil Lift. I repeat it, that nn injury
could refult to the influence of the Crown from this
retrenchment, for that influence is ton ftrono and
extensive from the increafe of the nationafdebt,
the army, navy, and other caufes, defcribed by
that learned Commentator Blacklione, to permit
the leaft alaryt upon thatground. no mg the items
Rated by the Right Hon. Gentleman, there was one
whit was particularly harlh, grating and diffonant
to my ear :—I mean the Law eepeneen. There
were two dekriptions of perfons who fufferad from
Oleic late expences ; forte that were tried after
long confinement, and who for the greater part
were acquitted, and of courfe I mull prefume their;
to be innocent. Without going into the eta:llion
Whether the charges aoainit thek onfortunate men
were generally groundlefs, it mall be obvious that,
by fu the greater 'somber were cruelly treated
for the)' were held for years in the moft horrid pri-
fens, and liberated without any mho- charge be;
log exhibited ngainft them, than blab asgloomy
futpicion, excited by tit.: maligaa mventton that
hired informers could fuggeft. Well may the un-
happy fufferere under ilia an abominable fyliem
exclaim to you-" you have robbed us of our li-
berty...-you have confined uswithnut a charge; you
have deftroycd our prokflions ; you have overturn-
ed our charadlers and property ; you have fent ortr
wives and children to leek fubtiftence from public
charity ; you have indemnified our perfecutors;-.- '
you have prevented its from feeling redrefs againft
them at law ; and now you come forward to
(queen the lafi remaining penny front our pockets
to pay for our oppreflion." I cannot give my alfent
to a propel-mon for taviog the country tor any
puronfe to odious. Intlead, therefore, of the mot
bon before the Houfe, however I may eltecm the
Monarchy, or however I may with for every thin,
that can promote the cafe, happinek; fplendo.ir and
• glory of the monarch, I Ihould recommend an ad-
drefs to his Majefiy, in which the Houfe lhould,
with becoming &tuners and decorum, tell his Ma-
jelly, that it would be more agreeable to the prin.'
cipies of the Conftitution, more conducive to the
advancement of his own reputation, and to the in-
terefts of the people, to quadrate his expences by
his comings in, to afford force guarantee to the
country againft any other fuel: application as the
prefent ; and not minding what fycophants might
recommend, refort; whenever he should have occa-

fun for advice, to Parliament, the only depofitory
.Of the public will. Such would he the niuft con.
Mien' line of conduit in his Najdly to put Cue, and
in this Houle to recommend.
TheCumiCILLOR of theExciticiute complained
that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fox) had milun.
del ftood or milialed his arguments in feveral in.
fiances. He had dwelt considerably upon the grants
that bad been made at ditteient periods to the Civil
Lift; but be forgot to take i.ito account the charges
that were laid upon his Majelly's income. The
Right Hom Gentleman here enumerated the va.l
bout funs recently paid by his hlajdly for diffe-
rent branches of the Royal Fami .ly, which charges
fill continued to Weigh upon the Civil Lilt. He
Wax alfo acceded by the Hon. Gentleman of not
having pnderflooo what Mr. Burke intended
Ihould be the elfea and operation of his Bill. He
certainly never pretended to fay that the author of
that Bill did not intend that it Ihould aft as a
check on the expenditure of the Civil Lift. But
what was the fact ? In 1792 were not accounts laid
before the Houle, which Ihewed that the Civil Lift
was in debt? Did not the Right Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Burke) then fee that the proviftons of
Isis Bill did not fulfil his intention, and that he
bad not then room triumphantly to declare that
the Civil Lift epuld contract no farther debt ? In-
' deed he did not believe that that Right Hon. Gen-
tleman then wifhed that the provitions of his Bill
&mild be effcaual.
Mr. Five role, to reply to Mr. Fox, and entered
at great length into an explanation of the items
oo which that Gentleman had animadverted. He
denied that the fubjeft of the Annuities was of
that importance which the Hon. Gentleman with-
ed to attach to it ; and if he would condefcend to
it.velligate the bufinels with more candour and
impartiality. he would And in many intlances, a
Material difference from the defcription he had
jnft now fo eloquently given. One inilance in
pirtiettla With which the Civil Lilt hid been en.
cdmbered for the IA two years was Goool. per
therefore the bighell degree of
t that there were not Rill many
Lift, of which the Public were in
:. With refpatto Mr. Burke's Bill,
ion. Gentleman had thought pro-
.fer, n., fubjeet could be more un-
- The fad was, that when in
by the accounts laid before the
Civil Lift twa, in swear, Mr.
n. bro.. • •

fuilictent to &charge there arrears, and he re-
joiced at the circuinftanct. He well knew, al-
though the Public did not, the various little con-
tingenciea which *ere provided for by this Lift,
and he Was confequently aware that a much
larger Turn was neceflary to enable his Majelly to
fuppart his dignity with credit to himfelf, and with
pleafure to his people. Mr. Pitt Paid he would
not now enter at large into this fubjee, which had
' already, in his opinion, been fufficiently difcutfed ;
but little as he intended to fay, hill lets was need.
fart' to be urged, in confequence of the explicit
itatement which had been made by his Right lion.
Friend Me Chancellor of the Exchequer. He
thciuld therefore pals over the ftatement of Mr.
Fox, excepting only one point, on which he felt him-
fellbound to make a few obfervations. The Hon.
Gentleman had indeed been uncommonly fevers
on the article under the bead of Law Expences ;
but withotit arguing whether there were or were
nut treafon or treafonable plots extant in the coun-
try, at the time when thole meafures were thmight
need:try ; or whether, if it had not been for thofe
vigorous exertions and precautions of his Majcay's
I Government, we might not, at the rrefent mo-
, went, find fomething very like treafon in England
and rebellion in Ireland,he thought it enough to lay
that the judgment of the Houfe had been taken at
the time, and thole meafures, fevere as they might
1 he thought, were admitted to be indifpenfible. He
! gave the Hon. 0 entanuch credit for the compalGon
and fympatli y he had expre fled towards thofe whole
conduct had brought them into fuch a dilemma;
I but his compallion was indeed of a peculiar fort,
and the compenfation he fpoke of was not a corn-
!
pcnfation for fufierings in cafes of convidion.
I Some of thole cafes, indeed, were of fuch a flrik-
I ing kind, that the Hon. Gentleman could not
lealily forget them ; nay, he hoped they never
, would be forgotten by him. It would be a queftion
not a little cnriou• to know what portion of the
goo,oool. would fall to the United hat-nen (a
• Ise)), when one argument us deny the exitlence
of treafon among them was their poverty. The
Right I-lon. Gentleman laid, he would not pay oc-
cafional charges; btu by Mr. Burke's Bill, others
are invefted with the power of paying any adJiti-
onal eliargcs, and in refutation of what he con-
ceived to be the leading points of the Hon. Gen-
tleman's argument, with refped to the payment of
debts on the Civil Lift, he would prove that there
had been r 7 one Reign fine.: the principle was
adopted of granting the Civil Lift for life, in
sshich an infianee has occurred of a 'debt not hay.
ing been paid ; and no inftance of excels fo little
worthy of Parliamentary jealouly as the prcfent.
The firft excels was that of nine months,ending in
April 1784 s at that time the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr.. Fox) had been Secretary of State, and Lord
George Cavendifh was Chancellor of the Exche-
quer. During the fall three months of 1783
there was an excels to the amount of 60,0001. It
was impollible to hate the conflruftion of the par-
ticular claufe in Mr. 13urke's Rill, which was now
the objet of difcuflion, becaufe from the mere
wording of it, its intention was doubtful and oh.
lcure. It was, however, very unlikely that Mr.
Burke's great triumph was on the impoffibtlity of
a debt : Mr. Burke was pefent at the time, and
flid nothing to enforce loch a conftrudion. In
1786, when the haunt's came again forward, it
was looked at with jealouly, and oblations were
made to the debt, but they were objections far dif-
ferent from thole now (tarred; and no man could
fay that there was any thing to forego.• In 1789
there was an application made for one prince who
had come of age, and the Civil Lift was in con-
fecnience relieved from a certain expence to which
it had been fubjed ; but this did not take place
without much übfervation at the time fiorn feveral '
Gentlemen. Similar applications were made and
agreed to at various periods. Before the war, he
was happy to fay, that by (economical wattage-
ment, and by this alone, with pride he averred it,
the arrears were In fmall that they were no objed
to Parliament. On the contrary, during the war,
they were confiderabic, and yet the fame fyftem
had been afted upon, and the fame creonomical
arrangements beet: purfued. The chief article in
the excels, during the period of peace, it appeared
was that for the expellees of Minillers at foreign
Courts. But nobody would deny the great im-
portance, and even neceffity of fuch Minifters.—
With refped to what the Hon. Gentleman had
termed ufelefs expenditure, in the inftance of
Lord Whitworth, who, according to him (Mr.
Fox) had feat himfelf on a million; and that this
and fimilar expences ought to he {truck out, he
could only fay, that the political hittory of Eu-
rope was of too complex a nature to be argued in
a parenthefis. The country would derive advan- •
tages from the Convention effefted by this Mini-
fter, or as the Honourable Gentleman would have
it, by theft tvho were fent to help him; and there-
fore no fenfible man would bring an argument of
two or three thoufand pounds to counterbalance
filch advantages, particularly as Parliament had
known and ciinvalred every item at the time.—
Whoever u ill look at the extent of the country and
commerce of this empire, will find that Govern-
ment has enough to attend to, without being
thwarted by trivial circumllances, even at this
day, when the long withed-for event of Peace has
i been publicly announced to us. As to the hotife-
, hold, the arrears occafioned by the fcarcity, and
other unforefeen events, ought to be defrayed by
Parliament, without cavil nr hefitatinn. The
Honourable Gentleman, continued Mr. Pitt,
feemed to be alarmed at the expence of the
charges for Wieners and "Couriers; but .he
alight to know, that in time of war a great num-
' her of couriers were iudifpenfibly need:try; and at
:
a time of negociation with powers remote from the
feat of aiftion, every pollible reafon for meilengers
mull ante out of the war. • Thii expenditure, and
that of the Penfion lift, could not be forefeen ;
but neverthelefs the latter has been kept within its
bounds. On .contemplating this banters Mr.
Pitt obferved,-that he could not but feel the
hiell fatisfadion ; becaufe there never was
a fubjea, the e-planation of which lay in a
narrower compare; nor could the application from
the Crown be made, In his opinion, with snore.
--___..... .x. - - .1 _....... ....... ari1.....

he Civil till is once granted, the proWiiin refit
with Parliament ; and as to the excels, it would,
comparatively, be found as trifling as at any
former period. If Gentlemen would put together
the amount or grants, they would .fiod that in the
&ft flatten years of laft century they amounted to
794,0001. per annum; and the average to the pre-
fent time was 918,0001. per annum. Whether the
increafe byre any proportion to the value of money, '
or to the relative prices of articles in general,might
,be rattly afcertained. It appeared to him that the
price was as two to three, while the value was as
eight to nine. Mr. Pitt then gave a detailed ac-
, count of the Parliamentary grants for a number of
years, and proved that their increafed value at the-
prefent day is-an indubitable proof of our national
.profperity, and a tell by .which the prote&ion of
the Crown repays the Loyalty and Attachment of
the People.
Mr. TIERNEY (AA that although he felt no in-
clination to oppofe the prefent meafure, yet he did
not agree with the Hon. Gentleman on the floor,
(Mr. Addington) that any attempl, becaufe it
was brought forward, ought to pals without the
leaf! inveiligation. InQead, therefore, of palling
over the fubjea with Inch expedition, he fhould
move, that the Houle do report progrefs, and ark
leave to fit again : and thus time might bc afford-
ed for a complete examination of the nature of the
debts. He knew of no inftance before in which
the Civil Lill Papers have ever been allowed to be
printed. He affured the Committee, that he felt
every difpofition to make a full and liberal allow-
ance for any change in times and circumftances ;
but though nobody was dilpoled to give more credit
to the Chancellor of theExchcquer than he was, yet
he could not implicitly agree twith him in the pre-
fent inflance.—Mr.Tierney litre entered into an e x-
amination of the various items, as , given in the
papers before the Houfe, and Rated that the excels
in the courle of nine years, has not amounted to
ioocl. per annum for the whole of the Royal Fa-
mily; and that we are indebted to the Royal Ftt•
roily for what has been given to the Voluntary
Conti ibutions. But by a meafure peculiar to the
late Minitlry, the Sectct Serv'ee Money Lad been
made a dittinEt article; had it not been for this
meafure, Mr. 'Tierney averred, that the Civil Lilt
would now be four years in arrear. He then
adverted to the charg_s for Foreign Miniflers, of
toff,oool. to the charges for State Trials, and more
particularly upon the new Office created for a Mi-
oilier at War; on the Meffengerc, and in Ihort on
all the points introduced by Mr. Fox. After ex-
patiating on there topics at much length, he moved
that the Committee report progrefs, anel a& leave
1
to fit again.
Mr. ItosE referred to the printed li fls, and point-
( ed out a number of financial errcrs into which the
Gentleman who fpoke lag had alien.
Mr TIERNEY explained.
Dt. LAWKENC a entered on an inveffigation oldie
Motion, and difapproved of certain proceedings
of the Houle with refpeEt to it. He touched on
the triumph expreffed by Mr. Burke; and conch's!.
ed by hoping his Hon. Friend would propole fame
regulations, otherwife he fhould feel himfelf called
upon to bring forward the ful2jed.
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXC 11 MX Ell role to
elucidate the tnifconception which had prevailed
relative to the opinion of Mr. Burke.
Mr. BANKS made a few ohfervations tending to
prove that Mr. Burke's bill did not preclude a
cafe by which Parliament might difcharge any
incumbrance, after having examined and approv-
ed the caufe of it. He conlidered the accounts
in general as fatisfallory, and never remembered
them fo clearly Rated as at prefent : he, however,
fhould vote for fomc, but not the whole of jhe
items.
On the motion for reporting progrefs, the gal.
lery was ordered to be cleared, when the Houle di-
vided.—For reporting progrefs 46—Againft it
2 2 B—For voting the fupply 226—Againit it 5 t.—
At three quarters pall twelve, the Houle adjourned.

LONDON.

TUESDAY, MARCH 30.

PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK:
3 per Cait. Conf. 704—for April ace. 70a
PRICE OF.STOCRE YESTERDAY...

. -
3 per C. ConC 6g I Imp. Ann. is 7-16,1
5 per Cent. Ann. malt} Exchcq. Bills par to ts. prem.
Imp. 3 per C. 68If Conf. for Am. 70 691 70

Our Readers will fee by the proceedings in the
Houfe of Commons laf night, that the Income
Tax is to be repealed. There could not have pot
fibly been a better homu held out to the public than
this, and the news of Peace at the fame time, that
the Miniller was applying for his loan,—a loan
that will be cheerfully granted to wind up a war,
of which the world was weary.

Yetlerday evening, when the Committee appoint-
ed by the Livery of London for the Repeal of the
Tax upon Income were met, and proceeding to bug
finefs, they received the following Letter, addreffed
to BENJAMIN TRACERS, Efq. their Chairman :
Si., 0. H 01731 of Commons, March 29, Mi.

" in order that the Gentlemen of the Committee may not be
unceccifarily engaged any longer in their olijea, I trouble you
with this to give you the cull& intelligence that the CNA NCEL-
Los of the Ezem rtku ea has jolt given notice, that he than move
the Houk of Cottunoos for a RrrEM of the Tax upon IN.
cuss r. " I have the Honour to be, with great Refped,
" Sir, your molt obedient Servant,
" Half pall Five." " H. C. COMBS."
The news of the intended Loan was made known
by the following Letter, which was read by Mr.
NzwLawn,:from the Bank, at the Stock• Exchange:

TO Tit Govicgmo4, ITC. Of TIM 1142 M.
"DOWICING-STOZET, IVlarcb

" I have to requelt that you will mute notice to be given at
the Stoek-Exchange, to-morrow Morning, that on Wainefilay
morning, at eleven o'clock, I &all be ready to confer with filch
Gavle/ram as may be Inclined to mat Pearcele for cog
—..—... .1.. sail I tem&

dot I Atoll be Lonoured "kb your attendanee on that oce.-tio”.
• 1 have the Honour to be,
• " Gentlemen,
" Your.faithful and obedient bumble Servant,
(Signed) " H. ADM/ GTON."

The Terms of the Definitive Treaty will not
be publifhed till they than have been ratified by
the different Powers, which may take near about
three weeks. It is only known generally that the
Articles of the Preliminary Treaty are no where
materially departed from. Wherever they are—
they are favourable to the ancient Allies of Great
Britain. Thus, we underlland, that a new claufe
has been introduced into the Treaty, in favour of
the Houfe of Oasisca ; and it is ftipulated that
the STADTHOLDSII ihall have ample compenfation
for the lots of his rank, and his property in Hol-
land. The integrity of the dominions of her
Moa rifrITNYUL MAJESTY, both in Europe and
America, is alio guaranteed according to the
Treaty of Badajos.
The valuable Minds of Ceylon and Trinidad are
alto guaranteed to this country by the Baturian
Republic and the King of Spain.
With retpea to• Malta, concerning which there
has been fo moch contention, we find that it is to be
given up to the Knights of St. John of Jerufalem ;
but very deferable arrangements have been made
refpaiing its future few; ity. The neutrality of the
Maud is guaranteed by moll of the principal Powers
of the Continent; among which, Autlria is one.
At New foundland, the arrangements are the fa me
as were 11:palated at the peaces of e 763 and i 783.
The French are to be allowed to cut wood in•two
fmall bays for one year.

In the official copy of the treaty, the fignature
of Marquis COitx WALLIS takes preccJence..

The inirnirations laa night, in confequence of
the Peibcc, were at the early part of the evening
chiefly confined to the Public Offices at the Weil
end of the town, and to Lord WHITWORTH'S,
Whitehall, in front of whore honk there was a
very magnificent illumination. The Admiralty
and Hoyle Guards were very fplendid, and So.
merfct-lionfe was lighted up in its ufual flyle or
elegance. In the City the Manfion and the Elsa.
India Honks took the lead for brilliancy and
grandeur.—Towards eleven o'clock a mob col-
lated at Ludgate-hill, and purfued their route
along the Strand to.Charing-crofs, knocking at the
people's doors as they palled, compelling them to
put up lights. Several of theloules in the fireets
leading. from the ,Strand to the water fide, had
their windows broke in confequence of not being
prepared with lights. The cafe was Much the
fame in Pall-Mall, Piccadilly, and the neighbour-
hood of Bond amt.
The effects of, the Peace had a wonderful influ-
ence ycflerday at Southfield;- as well as at the
Corn-market. At Smithfield, Cattle that hal
been driven away five weeks ago, and were again
brought to Market, could nut be fold for 201. a
head leis than had liven previoutly offered.

When Mr. Mooat, acconipanied by Mr. HVN-
TEit, arrived at Calais with the Treaty, the verel
he had engaged had been taken by fome other
perfon, and he was obliged
.to proceed to fea, in an
open boat. When approaching thc Englifh coaft
he tired a gun of diftrefs, and was brought on fhore
by time ling fithermen. He had not travelled
far when the poles of the chaile broke ; a little far-
ther on a fpriug gave way ; and at fome di (lance far-
ther one of the wheel horfes fell, and overturned
the carriage. Fortunately neither Mr. MOORE nor
the Melfenger received any material hurt.: but the
news of the Treaty's fignaturc was delayed nine
hours.

Harydd, the unfortunate maniac who made an
attempt about two years ago on the life of his Me•
JESTY, for which he was tried and acquitted, killed
s fellow prifoncr on Sunday in liethkm Hofintal,
by a blow on the jugular vein.

annum. It teas t
injutUce to alrert
chargeb upon this
general ignorant. I
to which the Hon
pet to often to ref'
fairly teprefented.
t digs it appearttl,
fib that the i
t-Itr 104. Rm. .41,