Star.
London, England, 1804-04-26 00:00:00

11

L 1

emitted by each pariCh and county lhould be Attach-
ed to the cnrrefponding regiment in Great Britain or
Ireland. II this plan were once reduced to praaice
and judicioufly ;teed on, I have no doubt that one
of the greatefl ()blades to the recruiting would be
removed. It is obvious that by fuch a plan all the
influence of domeffic feeling and local conneetion
would be obtained if thole entering into the Army of
Referve were conneeed with the particular regiment
for which they mull feel a peculiar prediletlion. But
'his would not happen alone in the cafe of recruits at-
tached to old battalions. If fupplementary battalions
were formed, the fame effects would refult from the
fame confederations. Similar feelings betwixt both
battalions would be encouraged and fimilar ardour
would be created. But, Sir. the good effects of fuch
an arrangement would not be fo limited. It will not
be denied that the prefent fylem of inditcriininare
volunteering the Army of Referve was extremely
difcouraging to the officers employed in drilling the
raw recruits. After he has wafted all his labour in
bringing the men to lonic kind of perfeeion, ,I put it
to the candour and the good fenfe of the Honfe, whe-
ther it muff not be painful to the feelings of any man
to think that all his labonr is to pars without reward,
that thofe whom he has prepared to advance into the
field are to follow the banner. of fame other leader ?
It is not, however, Sir, as a painful confederation that
this indifcriminate fy Item of volunteering is to be re-
probated. It is evidently calculated to undermine
all difeipline or attachment to officers. It follies
are attached to officers, this feeling cannot be of long
duration, bccaufe the conneelion is hardly formed
before it is diffolved. If, on the other hand, foldiers
are diffatisfied with their Commanders, they know
that while indifcriminate volunteering is allowed, they
have the fpeedy profpee of retiring from the controul
of men whom they may choofe to detelt and to ca.
lumniate. But, Sir, if the fy Item I recommend were
followed, all there evils would be done away. Know.
ing that their connection with their officers was of a'
permanent nature, the men would learn both awe
and regard; and the Officers, firmly attached to their
recruits, would (pare no time to render them puree'
in all the ditties of a militiry life. The confttreaces
that would With from this fyftem were obvious:llre
Grid have the men in an intermediate late more frft
finent for the purpofes of defence, and we lhouldhavi
claim mote difpofed to enter into the regplar difpcifable
folee of the country. If a thoufandlegular troops
wire wanted, we Gould have a thopfaod tenors of
the Referve pale* qualified to fupply their place
for every purport of internal defence. We might
hive' men for Hotted fervice, but then they would-be
tulder officer's of no limited views; men who *had
feett,fervice in every part of the globe ; and who
knew-moll perfeelly to qualify men to advance into
the field of battle with that confidence which is the
bell pledge of faccefs. I have already Rated, that
in railing the number of the Army of Referve to
64,opii, 1 Gould proceed gradually as vacancies in
the militia occurred t and this ferret in a great
litaifure to remove any objeftion drawn from any
ideaasi extraordinary inconvenience or mane. But
on the fubjee of inconvenience, when I fay that ifthe
prefent moll °pram penalty was removed, the in-
c nvenience both to parillies and to individuals would
arty be diminifled, one grand objeft of my
an would therefore be to lower that penalty mach
low what it is according to exiling alas. I fboold
propiffe that the ballot Gould go on as it is conduced
to tie militia eliablithment. If an individual was
1011nreed, howoold have it in his power either to pay
the modified penalty, or to accept of the bounty,
vihith Gould riot be lefs than that offered for the re-
gular army. I Mould propofe silo that the parith
Gould be b•thnd to find the fubttituta within the
handfed in which it was Situated. If the fublicure
could ant be found within a given time in that dif-
via, then, of cootie, an extenfion of the diltrie for
recruiting mug be allowed. In that cafe, however,
yNnold contend, that the bounrysoffered Gould be
tinder that offered for the regular army ; and that
the recruiting officer for the &aria where the man
was to be provided Gould be applied to on the
fobjett. Perfons drawn would have the option either
' of receiving a bounty or paying a penalty, and I
have no dtiebt,if this were a Mort time perfiled in,
the (Oats of fubflitutes would be materially dimi-
Oiled. Mr. Pitt concluded his very luminous late-
meta by a few general obfervations, pointing out the
importance of the plan he propoted, as calculated to
augment our regular army—to give greater perfec-
tion to our !yams of defence—to ceconomifc our'.
refources—and to hold out the faireft prolpett of a
fucceftful termination to the War. On all there
grounds, he concluded by moving, that the Speaker
do ant leave the Chair.
Mr. Secretary YORKE Paid, it was not his inten-
tion to follow the Right Honour ible Gentleman
through all the details of the plan developed in hi.
able and eloquent fpeech ; he could not, however,'
but obferve in the outfet, that whatever advantage
might be expelled to be derived from that meafure,
deemed conducive to the pr manent ftrengthening of
the military fylem, it could not be resided in a (peed"
manner, filch as the neceffoiei of the country may
require. If the roundel principle of political wifdom
Was to make ourfclves pet feely fecute at home be-
fore we began to make any extraordinary exertion.
abroad, he took it that we had fufficiently provided
foe that fecnrity already. \Vhatheprr.peredby the Lill
for Cul-pending the operation of the Army of Referve
Aes, was a temporary meal. ire, to faci:itate the
augmentation of the regular turce, tfitealy -lid col.
laterally ; dircliy, I,y removing the rnifehievous
competition that prevailed between the dacrent ler--
Vices, and collaterally by accepting rf the voluntary
fervices of the Irish Militia, and making a raop,r-
ti.tngte atigit,ntation, fi as to render our diopofable
fiVCC more Aci.lable. It would alto I.:chi:ate the
sugmentati!au th et v. 15 propofrd in the tro, i,. of the
line. He was perfectly A'A ale of II": at .7.+•rtcnt vh,:ch
wool!! be Wed, that the incteal, of the militia as read
be in competition with the other levies; hut in this
Rep he was guisied by the Gsndernen moll cc nye, fair
ith that couittry, ac•c t f o,
lint be difficult to Ft-cote both.
fulAlantise part of thi, was
all competition, and, in h, n 1 th
the Ell aloiwther was a b:lter m.a lit
than by at.y amendment ta- v•ti.):l
be made in the law. lie WA 4' read) 11
the Rigl.t iitm. Gentleman, that the r
Lltll mute benefited, Atl6l gut

opt

n that it v-uh!
prmviple

Inco r
;r1 otrcr t:

.tlit ply i
,:t•ndrd

the Army.of Referve, thank! could hive o
•. -.in;
• la
the fame finite of time by any other mebtans.
number of which the Army of Referee was even'
was 27,000, all of whom had been railed in theft:wee
of fix months ; but (ince the latter end of the month
of November 'all, it was fo much at a (land, that it
was barely able to fupport itfelf. If the prefent plan
was not found to anfwer according to the expecta-
tions of thole who adviled and propofed it. the Par-
liament had it in its power to glop it at any time when
the army eftimates came before them. As it was
therefore of a temporary nature, it would' not inter-
fere with the permanent plan of the Right
Honoura-
ble Gentleman for the augmentation of the line,
1 which might, notwithstanding this, be adopted at
any time that the Parliament might think proper ;
at the fame time, however, he did not with to
conceal his opinion, that whatever may be its gene-
ral merits, no immediate or effeflive good could be
_derived from it. The Army of Referee was now
' deficient in the number of between thirteen and
1 fourteen thoufand linen ; and to exile& that they
could be furnifhed by calling on the counties at this
time, he knew- would be an impratlicable attempt,
and would, at the fame time, keep the bounties and
the competition quite as high as ever. As to the ob-
jeftion taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman to the
low bountiei, he wifhed to know whether they did not
apply to his plan as well as to that of his Majefty's
Minifters ? The bounty was now ten guineas to the
man, two to the officer, and one for levy money.—
No more would be allowed ; and whether the boun-
ties be high or low, the plan °fills Majefty's blinillers
would affift in the recruitment of the army, as it took
away every competition. As to giving the officers
one itep more of rank, he could fee no nafehievous
effot that could arife from it, as precautions were
taken that they Ihould not be entitled to it, unlefs
they were of a fufficient (landing to entitle them to it,
had it been in their rotation. If they had not com-
pleted fix months fervicc, they were to revert to their
former rank. He then read the regulations, which.
tiefides the former provifion, deprived them of their
rank, it they gave more bounty than what they were
allowed to do, and alfo made them guilty of a breach
of difcipline, and liable to be tried for it by a Court
Martial. It had been fate!, that it would have been
better to repeal the Ael than to fufpend it. He,
however, was of a different opinion, and thought it
much more prudent to keep it Rill in exinence, until
the effet of the preterit meafure thould be tried.—
The plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman 'might be
very beneficial to the fervice, and he was undoubted-
ly competent to propofe it whenever he pleated ;
hut it Might be done without injury to the prelim
fyftern; for he could not conceive in what manner the
one interfered with the other. Without entering Man
the details of that plan. he could not avoid making
the obfervation once again, that loch a fyftem would
(till continue the competition fo much complained of.
The Right Hon. Gentleman argued. in fupport of his
plan, that it would encourage thofe who firft engag-
ed for limited, afterwards to enlill for general fer-
vice. True ; but the effelt of the Army of Referee
Dill was precifely the fame. By the laft returns that
he law, the number of the Army of Referee, which
had entitled into the line, was io,ooo men. being
17,0C0 on the fame conditions to which they had
originally engaged. The Right Hnn. Gentleman
alfo propofed to mile the Army of Referee to 64,000
' men, and turn the vacancies whicis might occur in
the militia to the account of that army. But in do-
ing fo. he feemed to forget the hardlhip which the
counties would fu(tain, in being obliged to fill the
itde-
ficiencies exulting in the iiia and the Army of Re-
feree, and to ill up the v ancies betides. the conic-
quence of attempting which would infallibly be, the
stoppage of the entire fyftern. The prefent was not
the time to difcufs the new plan, but he could not I
help obferving. that were it to be adopted, the more
foldiers who Volunteered in the Line, the greater'
would be the number of vacancies to be filled up,
and in that cafe, he believed, there would be little en-
couragement given in the country to the Willing in
the Itegulars. As to what had been Paid of country
and national names, he eonfidered it as a thing im.
praElicable in this country. The experiment had been
tried in S:osland, where the regiments of High-
landers compoled of the 42,d and 92d Regiments,
considered as the molt a4live and efficient for fer-
vice, went by that ditlind name; and the Lowland
Battalion, commanded by the Marquis of Huntley,
dent by the name of the Cameronian regiment.—
The fame was tried its England, by giving feveral
regiments the names of the counties in which they
were railed ;• but the experiment failed, as far as re-
garded confining the men to dude counties, and they
were now generally known by their numbers. It was
alfo propcled in a new plan, that it thould maintain
ith:lf by ballot, but not in the ufual mode, for the
perfon drawn would be allowed either to commute
his fervicc for a moderate fine, or ferve himfelf, and
receive the ufual bounty ; but hough it was very well
known that perfons in low circumstances, apprehen•
five of being drawn, frequently engaged themfelves
for the bounty, as fuhtlitutes for others, yet it was
no fecrer, that the general opulence of the people cf
this country created an avert-ton to entitling at all.
It would be alto found impraCticable to draw all the
fubliitutcs hem the counties far which they were to
serve ; filch a plan was only the renovation of what
had been the original law, but was difcontinued
Isecaufe it was found that it was impoffible to carry
it into execution. Upon the whole, he could not find
that the new plan would at all interfere with this;
;. ir was it cal. elated to rail.: a force in a fhort period
of t.:-.1.: ; and V. WS no; conclutive againa this Bill, as
the winter could never be confidered as a fubititute
for the latter. Letore the motion now before them
was adopr,,i, the 1f0u.,: would do well to refl:4l,
whether, by p ,:iporting .:i;. mediate, tli.y would not
intertuo the ;h.:. leer:,; whereof the plan newly pro.
poic ' 1.. i 1,..,:t c irid hot t e made immediately effeftual.
Mr. PITT fdid a few words in CrylArlift4.ll.
Mr. Will I'UREAD was glad chit the Right
-I. Secretory, in :inf.% er to the Right Erin. Gen-
der the- gallor y, kid cond,:feer.ded to ex-
:;.eCts, the 11.:1 which he n.,w pro-
:.. ct,..i:der.ition t I the I loule. By
i a. r',e R;AI t Ikon. Gentleman
' c, he It.vs certainly jtiltificd the
1. etitieot!y brought agoitill
ad, pied no fix,:d ot c miii.

AtiOn, 61.

I~m} v 1

Er 11 m-:afire now

it, Lilo:11;1i no.ri.,7nomer

übe ucccirey a

be more glaring then, the 3ppellaton
iii,,49 fpecies of force, as the refult has proved
a one of the great
gfsgSisifeli44rmyno°ft RbeeefnervrfPe4e, thatea
iltiwtolsd in juftificttion
Havere:ru i
tni
no
gt erne
rmrfuna r au -t
ofinr recruiting i
beenting [he v
given
army
the
lllStiveantlate t
different periods ; and have we not been told that the
has
footbeen owing toed of the recrutheitingAf
rervmyicof Referee ?e, fuch as it has
Such areb
,
the advantages which that Gentleman has boalled of
deriving from the Army of Referee ; and yet he now
comes forward to fufpend this Ad which he has for-
merly gated to be produdive of fo many advantages.
He comes forward to remove, by this fufpenfion, the
pernicious circa' of that competition which has been
Co often complained of, but which has never been till
now admitted by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He
could not, however, allow the acknowledgment of
the Right Hon. Gentleman to be a difficient anfwer
to the objections offered to the prefent Bill. He could
not allow the acknowledgment of their pall errors to
be a diffident proof of the incapacity of Minigers to
condua the affairs of the country, particularly in fuch
a crifis as the prefent ; he would allow it to be a
diffident proof, that they bad no vigour or confillency
in their meafures; but he could never allow the
perception of pail errors, fo long and fo obilinately
perfiited in, and kill profetfing to be adhered to in
regard to principle, to be a proof of greater wifdoM
in new arrangements wilich were Co clofely conflated
with the former, that they, mull partake in a very •
confiderable degree of their general complexion.—
The
meafure now propofed, does not go to aboligi
the Army of Referee. which, if that fyitem has been
found inefficient it ought to do ; but gam only to faid
pend for a time its operation. Either the Army of
Referee is a good or bad fyllem. If it is a good fyl
tens and po&fred of all the advantages, which have
been profeffed to be derived from it, why fufpend it?
And if it is a bad fyftem, and by creating an unfair
competition, operates in hoftility to the increafe of
the regular army ; can any realms be given, why it
Ibould not be totally repealed,? but Minifiers
perhaps are afraid to confefs their weakncfs. They
tee at lag the inconveniencies attendiug the prefent
Army of Referee Sy Rem, out are rents Cant to ac-
knowledge in proper form the inutility of 4 fyliern
they have fo Mien fupported, and from which they
have profeffed to derive fa many advantages. They
wills to abolith it therefore imperceptibly. and to
avoid, under the pretence of a temporary furpenfion,
the smile and eclat of a recantation. They with to
abolifh it by a fide wind, and at the expence of the
people. As if the former fyilem had not been faffi•
ciently expenfive, the prelim plan now propufed to
be fubmitted to the Houfe was no lets calculated to
empty the poeketi of the people. That men could
be railed in a lhort time upon any fuck ()Rem was
an erroneous idea. .In the counties with which he
was acquainted, he could fay, from his own obferva-
tion, intlead of railing the men in a Mort time, they
were obliged toad illegally in order to raife them at
all. Had they ailed legally indeed. they would ate-
thee have found men nor money. But if it is now
allowed that men cann'rt be railed by the Army of-
Referee, which was formerly gated to polrefs fro •
many advantages, and which is gill allowed to be
efficient, inatmuch as it is not Intended to be repeal-
ed, to what quarter !hall we apply fur the fupply of
men required ? If Government has not been able to
raife the neceffary fupply of men by the operation of
the Army of Referee Act, how thin they be able to
raife the men wanted, if the field is fo exhaulted as
to render that ad ineffectual ? If it was really necel
Cary to go into a Committee on this (uhjed, it mull
be regarded as a proof, and a very undeniable proof
—a proof which thole gentlemea thernfelves recog-
nife, that all former meal-ores have been ineffectual.
But if this be really the cafe—if the properrnode of
augmenting our army be yet unakertained, upon
what principle could the motion of his Honourable
Friend (Mr. Fox), have been rejeded lag night ?
Did not that motion go to the adoption of vigorous
and adequate meafures, and to the correaion of pall
inadvertencies 1 Was it nut the defign of that motion
to employ the colleCtive wifdom of the Houle. in
adopting meafures to the exigency of our prelent
circumtlances ? But Minillers by rejeeling the offer,
had declared the prefent fyflcm to be complete, and
yet they come forward tonight and !tate it, as need'.
Cary to go into a Committee on one of the moll im-
portant departments of the fervice, and what is 11111
more, place this neceflity on the•very grounds urged
by his Honourable Friend in fayour of his motion.
[Hear ! hear! hear !) Had that motion been car-
ded they Mould now have been fitting as a Commit-
tee, not only for inveltigating the bell means of aug-
menting the regular army ; but of the belt means
alfo of arranging and difpofing of every fpecies of
our force. It would appear, therefore, Irmo the
arguments of thole gentlemen this night, that they
did not rejea the meafure propofcd by his Honour-
able Friend, from a conviction of its impropriety ;
but merely to try their grength, and to afeertain
whether it would be prudent for them t,s continue
longer in their places (a Lnigb .1) fist now having
afcertained this important point, they come forward
and tell us, without refizeting a moment on their for.
mer arguments, that it m ill be proper to go into a
Committee. There is certainly a gull relinquilh•
mein, both of principle and duty, not to call it by
a worfe name, in the condua of t:,:. lf-Altt honour-
able Gentleman this day. But if you do not allow
them to carry this meafure into efflst, they will tell
you, you may as well deny them the lui,l ly, for in
the prefent circumgances the one grant is as nee&
fary as the other. Without railing men, they tail
us, it is impoflible to go rm, and it is no longer pot-
fible to raile men on tie 'ld Is gem. It was tar this
very reafon, he was againfi the inealore. If the
Army of Referve :let was n.: longer uritril, it ought
to be repealed. lie wori;,l thciehac v.ry ssiiiingly
give his vote for its repeal ; but would by no means
encourage partial mealloci by voting it, flip, nf: -I,
when upon the deelaratipn (.1 Mii,ht,is thtnif lv..s,
it ought to be entirely abolifired. According to the
Itatement to repeatedly made hi Minitters, th .y in
tended the Army 1.1. Keret re as a fupply for the re•
gular army. This a...milt:on was adowed then:,
nI th theirnil .dt tens is !,t,,..,rtiivc,;:l.r incutl inuffs
and they claimed no imonlilcrahle credit from it.—
iir c;:p.o. fit s
:wieir,:c
lt tair•.e..l
fufpend a 101.11 wind, hof lo 1.. p•.. c !..I ..li.:,`
. 1 the !apply or :h:re,;u: ir army. :1 .h;',..:. •'- I rec.
mean; to r. upend the I and to a confider Able urn,ll' r, every man will .i::ose

thcrsiort, for the is

create loch a force, mull meet with general appro-
bation, though, at the fame time, he, for one, flooaa
not wiltito fee any great dirporable force put into
their hands,_froma conviSion that they would be
very ill qualified to make a proper ufe of it. But
if the Army of Referee Al was calculated to cre-
ate this difperable force, why fufperd it ? and if it
had a contrary tendency, why not immediately re-
peal it ? But in furpending the Army of litlerve
they propofe, it feema, to create a number of in-
fpeitors in the different diltrial. What confequeneca
could be expefted from fuch an arrangement ? The
Lord Lieutenants of the different Counties are cer-
tainly fufficient fur all the purpores intended by in-
fpators, and even in molt cafes better qualified theta
fupervifors of any defeription. But the Ctentlemen
oppofite, perhaps, with at the prefent critical mo, •
meat to create a greater number of places, and thus
independently of general strength of the country
add at leaft to their own forces. Such an acquilitiou,
of firength was no doubt defirable, and at the ric-
fent moment, perhaps. abfolutely necelrery. Inef-
ficient, however, as the Army of Referve Ad would
now Teem to be. its provifions bad nos been eat-tied
into execution, which was a dill farther probf thai
Mini:ten were ill qualified either to adopt new mea-
feres,or to carry exiaing ones into execntion. They
,enadledwithont thought. and were equally anxious
to furpend withofst reflation. By the Army of Re-
feree Bill, they had required the quota of men to be
railed et a certain time, or a fine to be impeded.
thould any county or diftrit be deficient in their
number. He Mould not fay at relent whether this
provilion was wife or not, but lie was certain it had
not, and perhaps could not, with any propriety, be
carried into elevation. In the county with which he
was panicutarlyconnated,thenuntber of men had not
been found, but at the:fame time no fine had been ins-
' pored by the (IBartel Seffions, as it was found themen
could not be gut. In reply to this, they will tell us
moil likely, they could not know the peed& circuits.-
, fiances of the different counties, and might therefore.
in fame inflances, over-rate them. But had not they
the fame footers of information which any Member
of that Houle had, and were they not fuppofed to
have more, as they had aced-stoat.: aggregate infor-
mation of the Houfe, when they thought it necerary
to call for it ? Nor could he think at all more juflifs-
able the mode now propofed otimpoliag the fine, not
as the old one, but on the county at large; as, ac-
cording to this provifion, tholewho had exerted
themfelves in any fucla county would be liable, and
would, in rat, be fitbjelted to the fine, as well as
thole who had not raifed a fingle man. That rock
an arrangement would be unfatr,revired lleldernta-
*ration. But another material objetion be had to •
the smarms arok from the idea, that timid it man
be hallooed, and not have &dually joined his corps
before this Bill paired, he flail be ohlsgednot to find
a Cabalism, whatever arrangements he may have
made for that pupae, but a certain bun of mosey.
or to ferve in perfon. Would it be confident—would
it be fuitable to the wiklom of Parliament to fluke
the man, in fuels eircionliences, find the money, when
he might more conventinnly find a felsaitute--when
to find the one might he poffihk, and the other.
perhaps, wholly irnpywilienliet But ruppofe_you
mand zol. as the price. °flak ate option ? Ah, fare the
balloted ma n, this is Avaftrons. and *rem pa me only
for a year, .I will not confine, to it. But, Faye the
Government, if yen will merest to pay more, it will
exempt you for ire years, and what it &id more.
from the Militia ago. What thee rook be the conk-
queue of inch &natures? You thus cut up not-
°city the Army of Referve, but aro the Militia, and
in' the end will lock up the forts of the coantry..w.
Upon the whole, he would vote for delaying this
meafore at all events, that the Right Hoe. Gentle-
man under the gallery (Mr. Pitt), might have time
to bring forward his meafure, which panelled as a
whole to he more fatisfatory. He would therefore
give his vote that the Speaker fhould not leave the
chair. In regard to the plans propofed by that Right
lion. Gentleman, the prefent was not now the tune
to go into them, even fo far as he had esplained bins-
felt: From the anfwer however of the Right Hoe.
Secretary, to dusk plans, fo far as they had been ex-
pi:lira:J. it mutt be very obvious that they ought to
tx difeared before the piafiing of this Bill, as the
!mature in cooternplatko of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man, held out advantages which we have not derived
from any of the meafures hitherto adopted, and Wove
than thus Bill even profeffed to he calculated to give-
He did not by any means conceive that the mock of
ballot fuggelted by the Right Huoossrable Gentleman
could be attended with any inconvenience. it would
not neceffarily cut off our reeourfe to the great ma-
, nufaauring towas for the recruiting fervice. While
others would be mote productive. thofe fonrces airs.
would be left equally open as at prcfcnt. The Hof -
Secretary, he thought, had not fulliciently saplainel
how the two battalions he had mentioned were to be
officered, as there mull be an influx of officers as
well as men. The Right Honourable Gentleman.
by preferibing the tried in whith the number of
men were to be railed for the purple of prom:-
. ing tank, had defeated, in 1 great mcalur..,
obj.sa of this arrangement ; but it would •
pear :Dore ridiculous. when it was r:Colleneal, [Ls.:
they were not only oldia,ol to rail; then, witl,in
given time, her rot petni:tied also Sc, give then,
more than a es.i..in ivounty. The Mu-li-
tters by Cud) menus acre zertair.4 ,uttitig the L:.l.`as
of their own plan. if a man is limited to a C.,: ..1
time, he [Min tleCerrArily give the greater --
If you, therefore, tie up his baods in both t. •-•
you go very far, indeed, to ',town any 1e.,.
hopes of fuccers. '1 he Hon. G, a.; • • •
ed to the ittlafcrirdion chill, that ltd w:writ
bath the precedoso frakers. In nt..:ty triv....cti
acknowledged, lie Ara,. at.,infl t;,-7 fr, men al-
together ; but it. tame 'aflame. alto, I.c auuld admit
it to Le expedient. In .;!iculttir al counties, par ttt 1,-
I.lllyr Gcollemcr. from 1::e country mita know, that
that could he great inconv:. iznelc% v i.hout a fylls:n
of ulna dewr pti it. The. I litnottrable Gentleman thea
coachide ! no his negative to the motion 1.•
the tl.: ircirle, Or It It. 111 C E
Ain.), of ::tense Act can no longer exi
t: at a r.iC .11 . therefore, was mare pr,-irer than
penfisti, ++nd that the m-if.•• •

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man oppothe Lim cciaLi ax, by any lair .u.: 4.4

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I

fionate obferver, be fuMnfed In the leak to milk :tell
againft the provifions of the Bill. One argument of
bis was, that the meafure was not calculated to pro-
duce men, but money. Unlefs he confidered that,
as an argumentum ad bossism, laud of the argamen-
nom ad rem, he thought it could not pollibly be conG•
dered as any argument at all; for in a fubfequent
part of that Honourable Member's fpccch, be ad-
arritted that, of 40,000 men which it had been pro.
poled to raife by that Bill, there were now aftually
Tailed and embodied to the full amount of 30,000
men; and it was admitted on all hands, that of all
the meafures for the increafe of our military arength,
the Army of Referve had procured the 'arra poffi•
ble number to our difporable force. Neither himfclf
nor any of his Right Honourable friends vilified to
contend that it would by no means injure the gene-
ral recruiting for the line ; on the contrary, they only
raid that it did not put a total flop to the general levy
for extenfive fervice, but admitted that it muff, as all
levies for limited fervice mutt, tend pro canto to &mi. ,
Mb the recruiting for the regulars. He had objefted
.In tech general terms, that while he condemned ;he
operation of that Aft, he cenfured Minifters for
bringing forward any thing like a repeal of the law
which he feemed to think obnoxious. He did not
polltively fay which of the two he thought was bell.
Minifters, however, had not adopted either; they
bad taken a middle courfe ; and only moved for a
temporary fufpenfion of the law, until the recruiting
for other fervices could be completed. In his objet.
tions to the meafure of forpenfion in itfelf, he had
riven it the mild title of a Bill of falfe pretences.—
Be could not fee the propriety of the application of
(itch an epithet. In this branch of his argument he
feemed particularly to refer to the mode of railing
money, which was provided•for by the Bill. When
tome of the Counties in the Weft of England, for
instance, had exerted themfelves with the greatell
alacrity, and perhaps with Tome degree of Yowls,
and had completed almoll the whole of their quota,
would any Gentleman (land op and fay that it was
en aft of juftice to put them on the fame footing
with other counties which had not difplayed a
familiar cheerfulnefs of fpirit, or railed a proportion.
ate number of men? The Honourable Gentleman
bad alto Rated the inconvenience which mull relish to
the Houle from a caniideration of the two meafures,
that of the Bill which was now before the Houk,
and that of the propofition which had been made by
a Right Hon. Gentleman under the Gallery. He
confeffed that for his part be plainly faw that very
treat inconvenience mull arife from the circumflance
of entertaining two quelliens of that nature at the
fame time. The one was for a temporary flifpenfion
of an Aft already eflablifhed, and which mutt be
sonfidered as a matter of experiment. The other
was for the adoption of a new meafure, which was
in eatenfive in itfelf, and fro ample in its detail, as to
farm fotheient grounds for the ibtrodultion of a new
Bill, which would require the molt ferious delibera-
tion of the Houle. A particular provifion in the
sill he had regarded as a job. But really he could
mot fee bow any thing like a job could be likely to be
made of fuch a regulation. The counties that were
particularly deficient in the fupply of their quota of
men, were to be made fuhjeft to the penal provirions
of the former Acute. To afeertain the funs which
they were to pay for fuch a deficiency or negleft, it
was neceffir y ro make enquiries of different perfons,
so oneof whom could have within himfelf the power
at making a complete return from his own know-
/edge. Some might be dead, or others might have
defected between the time of their heing:raifeed by
the pariffi difiritt, and the time at which it was lu-
pe/led that they had entered on real military duty ;
others might have been difeharged after they had
been fent to join their regiments. For this purpofe,
he thought that it was abfolutely neceltay that
fame Gentlemen of refpc&ability (Mould be appointed
to a fervice which was fo effential to the public ince-
telt, and fo diverfified in its illations. There vows
one queflion to which the Honourable Gentleman
appeared to attach the greateft importance—that was
the payment of fines by the county at large. He
evidently confidered that the law was intended to be
the fame in that refpea as the militia laws. In the
militia the deficiencies were to be reckoned as fo
Much fine upon the county, it was true. The Army
of Referee Aft alfo levied the penalty off the county
in the foil inliance ; but it provided that the money
Mould be afterwards eventually paid by the parilh
which was deficient. The Honourable Gentleman
bad (fated fame nbjeftions alfo to the inftruftions to
officers, who had to rail,: a certain number of men fur
a certain rank in the army. That might be made a
feparate quellion, no doubt, if any Honourable Mem-
ber fhould think fit to to do ; but lively it had no con-
nexion with the immediate queflion before the Houle,
namely, the Houle going into a Committee on the
Army of Referve Sofpention Bill. Alto the jollies
of the ewe, confidered on the fcore of propriety,
railing a certain number of men within fix months,
that was an objeCt for the officers themlllves to look
to when they few the inftruftions. If they thousht
the length of time was not of fufficient duration,
they could very eatily avoid entering into fuch an
engagement. The inflruftions, however, were not
fo ti idly adhered to, as totally to preclude Miui-
Eters from extending the period in which any given
slumber of men was to be railed, according as the
eit cumftances of the cafe might warrant. It it
appeared upon the whole that the Army of Re-
ictre An flood in the way of-thole levies, or the
general recruiting for our difpolithle force, that cit.-
c•imllance could not be fairly urged as au argument
.4..tainll the Sufpenfion of the Bill. It finely mutt be
confidered as an aft of justice to there Gentlemen,
to remove an obflacle which flood in the way of their
railing their quantity of men within the period
Biked; and above all it mull be a meafure of the
remelt utility at the prefent moment, to tufpend the
operation of any meafure which in the Imallca de-'
Free tended in Wien the general recruiting for our
armies. In a eery populous dillrift in the crointry.
he knew it for a Wt. that perlens in but modcratc
cite umflances had paid :oh fooner than enter into
the Army of Reserve as It:hit it utet. which thee 'night
have done at the time, and have :d 1. lie
by no means wilhed to (late that their w:r

•
generally to he met with, but 3t was to
11cw that fume temporary luipentinn of the Lau. w.ts
I,Lcefroy. The p10p.40.331 of the Right I lon. Ger.-
t:-watt ennkl only he t:tmed at patient. a matte/ of
p. mew, 031,11.1erieR the prelim me.ifore in the
i.•. 1: paint of yiett, it mud mt./only was en;iticil to

fome claim of priority; and tire-Honk would recol-
left at the fame time, that nothing was now intended
to be done which would totally detiroy the good (f-
-ie.% of the Army of Referve Aft, but that the Plea-
fore was brought forward as the tneans of accelerat-
ing the increafe of our difporable force. If any other
fyttem was to be adopted, it might be the objeft of
future difeuffion, without interrupting the progrefs
of the prefent
Mr. FOX laid, that after all he had heard on a for-
mer day, as to the neceffity of a thorough difcutlion
of the Prefent Bill, he was furprifed to find that it
had not yet been thought necetfary to enter into
any explanation of the neceffity of it. He had not
heard a tingle word in fupport of the Bill ; but its
fupporters had confined thernfelves to a general re-
cornice° dation and impede& defcription of its fea-
tures. On Friday lan thcy were not prepared to
enter into its merits, and now the Houfe was to un-
deraand that they mutt wait till ancther flage for any
fatisfaflion on the fubjeft. The framers of the Army
of Referve Bill, at its firft adoption, found it a
meafure next in efficacy to thephilofopher's floncoThe
furpention of it, the Houle was now called on to be-
lieve, would do great wonders; and,there was little
doubt, the revival of it would be a call on their cre-
dulity to a Rill more unbounded extent. It was not,
however, his with to keep Gentlemen to their pro.
mires of a former day. He argued, that fufficient
unto the day was the folly thereof. It was fail tliat
the Bill had exhaoned at prefent all i's force; is
if they had been told of a horfe that his Rrength
was exhaufled, that he was fatigued ;—but let him
fleep, and he would greedily recover ; or like a pump
well, art of 'which no water can be drawn, beeaufe
the work's are out of repair. No, there are not
the reafons taped. But Minitlers day—" Stop—
this water has 'got In low, that you cannot pump out
of it to,ooo men at prefent; but wait till the water
is reftored, and then you may pump out of it more
men." Another mode, bowever, has been propofed
by the itight Hon. Gentleman tinder the gallery
(Mr. Pitt). But what do Minifters Cay to it ? " Let
us try our twat-me before your's. We have gone on
' as far as could be gained in the way of a limited
force. As we cannot carry it farther, let us try if we
mount fucceed better in an attempt at an unlimited
Crevice. As we cannot get more men to content to
reeve in Great Britain, let as try if we may not induce
others to 'extend their Cervices beyond it. *—Prepof-
' terous, indeed, and contrary to all order, and to
every ideasof common undernanding, was it to flip-
ped... that having exhaulled the more eafy and lets
extenfive (pecks of terrier, they could then, without
any improvement, without any favourable alteration
of circumtlances, expeft greater nieces in the more
difficult and more extended fel vice. They reprefent-
ed the AR authorifiog the Army of Referve as an
Aft-which had done more than any other meafure
could have done. If it had failed them, how could
they taped that a lets efficient plan was to be crowned
with greater fuccefs ? What hopes could they have
of fuccefs in my thape, when this molt fuccefsful of
all meafures had failed them? The plain anfwer was,
becaufe by giving rank to Officers, you opened
,the door for giving higher bounties, than were given
.in any other fervice whatever. The limitation of
time for railing the number of men to entitle an
Officer to his additional rank, fo far from operating
as a cheque on this prattice would, he was conceived,
as his Hon. Friend,(Mr. Whitbread) had already no-
ticed, prove an additional encouragement to the in-
create of tuch bounties. Rank was the great aim of
Officers who would undertake to raife men in this
'manner, and having made up their complement
nearly to the number agreed on, there was little doubt
that former than facrifice their objeft, they would
give any bounty, even to the extent Cpecified by his
Honourable Friend. But Knitters raid, the fufpen•
lion of the Army of Referve would do much good.
All that it could poffibly do, he and his friends had
already anted, nay, had enforced on the confidera-
tion of Milliners. He, and many other Hon. Gen.
tlemen in that Houfe, had often enforced the neceffity
of removing. the bounties, and thereby atrording fad-
' lity to recruiting the regular army. This, however,
which was unquellionably the great objet held out
by the futpentionof the Bill, they had delayed till the
latell poffible moment ; and now that it was propofed,
he did uta fie that it would have, to any extent, the
intended. The Right lion. Gentleman under
the gallery, had detailed a plan which unquellionably
deferved every fcrious and attentive confideration.—
When brought forward in a regular manner, lie had
no doubt that it would be greatly calculated to an•
Ewer the thick/ in view. His objet would then be
more intelligible, and though he (Mr. Fox). had not
been able to follow the whole of the Right lion. Gen-
tleman'. tiatements and provitions, he had no doubt,
from many things hi ! W-.C.1 did meet with his approba-
io.what fell from the Right Hon. Gentleman,
that the meafure proproed by him would be infinitely
fuperior to the prefent Minillers, however,
afked why the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
which they teemed alfo to think might be advan•
tageoufly employed, was not introduced at fume after
period? Why, the Right Honourable Gentleman
had formed his meafure on the plan of the Army of
Referve Bill, which it was his objeft to improve, and
render etneient. The Knitters, in the mean time,
pufh on the futilention of this Bill at one time their
favourite. Aft. They attempt to do away the very
fur:store which it is the objeft of the Right Honour-
able Gentleman's intended motion to improve, and
which by his attention and ability, might be rendered
of infinite advantage. They do. not with to aslord
him an opportunity of trying the etre& of his mea-
lure in the Houle of Commons, but think it fuf-
ficient it he have it in his power to prir.t his Bill,
and to publifli his fentiments, as a Speeds intetari
to be fpoken in that Houle. He agreed with tf
Right Honourable Garlernan in thinking that in
the cafe of ballots it might he fit to give a liollEr! o.
the perfon halinted to ler ve, provided he were

to ferve perfenat!... But.l4fs the Right flormicab!:
Secretary of State, " We have tried the I...peti-
rncnt. Wc have in particular COOTstieS offered iarge
bounties as an ir•.duccmer.t, but without effeEt."--fs
the right Honeutrable Secretary, however. certain
that it the per.alties and b 'unties were limited in the
manno. rropoCed by the Right Honourable Gentle.
man ; is he cerrain that. if the nature and endurance

t',e icrvic• ,•-•Tc totally difFerent, firtuil.ar inf}rlces
w•uulJ : tat, lAys the Right Horwur-
-416:C S:cr_tar•: :;tate, at lea( clubbing mall be
dvl.e Ilomour.4ble Gentlcnua dccland

that he did Pot know on what mood fubfcriptions
Could be fuppored to prevent the acceptance of
bounties. If the lave could be rendered effeelire
and the penalties limited ; he could not fee how clubs
could be enabled or could with to pay great boun-
ties more than individuals. He certainly approved
greatly of ballots, and thought that clubs, fo far from
operating againft the AR, were highly meritorious.
Was it confident in an At of Parliament to prefcribe
that people might pay 51. each for exemption, but ,1
that four or more of them fhould not be allowed to
tors up who fhould pay for the whole? Now what ob-
jeetiort could be urged againtt poßponing the going
into the Committee ? If they did fo, they would have
two plans before them on which to chore. The plan
of the Right Honourable Gentleman had not at all
been replied to,-but it bad been Rated that it would
more properly become the fubjeft of confideration
when the Rate of defence of the country was before
them. His Honourable Friend (Mr. Whitbread) had
properly afked them, why then the, had objeeted to
go into a Committee on that fubjeet ? Their anfwer
Teemed to be, the time would come when fuch a
queftion might be dirculfed, but this was not the
moment—Minifters did not with yet to be removed
—they mull die, but not jug now—tome time hence
would be equally agreeable to them. If the Right
Honourable Secretary of &ate .thought the plan
of the Right Honourable Gentleman a proper fubjeet
for difcufLon along with the ftate of defence of the
country, how could the propofing a Committee nn
that fubjeet be attributed to him as a plan for dif-
miffing, Minitters? 'lne point at prefent was, whether
the House (bottld proceed on the plan of the Right
Honourable Gentleman, or that of Minifters, as the
molt likely to be of a rational nature ? The plans of
Minifters, fo excellent as they had at Erg esteemed
them, they had held out to that Houfe as uncoa-
Icious what to make of them, firlt in the right
hand, then in their left, according as it occurred
to them either to approve or difapprove of their
own meafures. Whenever they attempted to im-
prove one mode, they in every intlance did fo at
the expence of the dettraßion of another. If the
Right Honourable Gentleman fucceeded in the
orefent quellion, the effeet of the delay applied for by
the Right Honourable Gentleman would be not to
deßroy 'h.. Referee AR but to prop it. His only
doubt was, whether the delay ought not to be longer
than a fortnight? But if Minifters thought that any
thing could be Made of their own meafure, the belt
mode undoubtedly would be to delay it, and to fee
if they could not ingraft upon it the plan propofed
by the Right Honourable Gentleman. Unlefs, indeed,
they thought that there was fomething ropernatural
in their powers ; that they poffetTed fomething in the
batiste of conjurors, which fhould induce them to try
&ft one experiment then another. The Honourable
Gentleman concluded by giving his hearty Arent to
the propofal of the Right Honourable Gentleman.

The SECRETARY at WAR explained.
Lord CASTLEREAGH oppofed the motion for
adjourning the Cotnrwittee. He defcanted upon the
very weighty difficulties, which, in fuch a. country as
I this, prefented themfeives to Ministers in their en-
deavours :o create a large defenfive and offenfive
force. Thefe difficulties could only be combated by
Lome fuel meafures as thole which had at:bully been
reforted to ; and whatever apparent contrariety, or
inconfiftency, there might be in them, the effea had '
proved that Minifters sided wifely. Their firlt objet/
was to provide for our internal fecurity ; that pur-
pofe was accompliffied by the Militia, the Volunteers,
and the Army of Referee. They had now to provide
a large difpofable force to be employed, as occafion
fhould require, in offenfive warfare ; and for this
perpore it was deemed expedient to fulpend a mea-
lere, which fo far as the internal tecurity of the
country was involved, had certainly attained its effeft
for the prefent ; but which, atter the Regular Army
fhould receive the augmentation now intended to b.:
made, it might be expedient to enforce again, in order
to keep up the eflablifhment for home defence. In
this view of the fulajekt he could fee no grounds for
any charge of inconfillency.
Sir J. PULTENEY rote merely for the purpofe of
adverting to a Ratement, which he had repeatedly
beard made in that Houle, that thcrz was very little
difference, in point of difeipline and efficiency fw for-
rice, between the Militia and the Regulars. With all
the regard which he felt for the former, as being
ttrietly a cenftitutional force, this was an opinion
from which he mull ditrent. Soldiers could not be
completely trained, but by mrn who had teen fervice;
nor could they be looked upon as efficient, but when
officered by men of that dcfcription. But the very
conflitution of the Militia precluded the idea of their
being fo officered, and independently of that confi-
deration, we had not officers enough who had leen
fervice supply the demand of Co,ooo men in addi-
tion to the regular army. There certainly were con-
fiderable numbers of militiamen in the army which fo
nobly fiipported our military charater in Egypt ; hut
it fhould be recolleacd, that they had been diflri-
buted into regiments of the line, and previ,us to the
landing in Egypt had their dilcipline perfeticd in the
garrifons of Gibraltar, Minorca, and Malta.
Lord CASTLEREAGH expLiined.

Mr. WINDHANI approved Of the amendment.—
He was likewife favourable to mot of the ideas
thrown nut by Mr. Pitt. '11..., propn.a: for fill-pend-
ing the Army of Referve A was ar. additional 1•roof
that with whatever plan blihitters might let nut, they
always terminated in incnnhileticy. He could net
cenceive what benefit was to he derived from retain-
ing the meafure in a Itate of fufpention. They
wilhed to keep it in a fort cf middle 'tate, in which
it was neither to be wholly dead nor wholly alive.—
Did they mean to exhibit it as a kind of ghntl in ter-
r;rem, and fir the fame put-pole tier which other
ghedts h.ra been recuticd to. that cf c !riling money
—lt tie Aft had done all that it he
it not repeal...! ? For Ilia pair, I.e a n:. iced that Mi.
niacts were at Jail convinced ot it, icy ;
!:e.y %lied to prevent a itiven
hy alitgli;fing the virtual
the pretence nnly of a temporary htfoentitin
not produced the etfi,:t which thry hop: h beer
ght Mitch eras nut twat...v.:a by t

an:e

1,1 the tA

tt order
it hid