Star.
London, England, 1812-12-19 00:00:00

leeted, the War was wisely turned into an oNenstee to election purposes. He wehdered at the &faculty the Right
one. But if the House and the country felt satisfac- Hon. Gentleman had now found in ascertaining the fact, when
tion at this wise conduct of the RussiaoArmy, surely hie Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Bathurst) bet yesterday said that
iny individual in the community might any day obtain that in-
they would feel no less admiration at the patriotic formation. He could not avoid suspecdng that the oath required
conduct of the Russian people. In every other war ha4p.t been taken.
in which France'had been engaged, the people of the C. ASTLEREAGH objected to address the Prince RlO-
gent for information AMR what passed In any of the Courts of
country stood for nothing. In this ware the people Law. He certainly was not the pr officer to make a report.'
a Russia had stood for every thing. If they looked Mr. WHITBREAD said he certainly was not, but that he
to the evacuation and the burning of Moscow, to had proper officen under him to make the report. All he wanted
prevent its becoming an asylum, and a place of arms was the information, and he had no objection to altering the
for the invader, it must excite our greatest admire- terms of his motion, and moving, tlTrutt the proper officer do
report," etc.
tion ; and we must declare there is nothing in history, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER suggested a dif,
as a great national sacrifice, to be compared to it.— acuity in complying with such an order, as the oath might bare
been taken before a single Aaron of the Exchequer, and in such
The tate of a capital, containing 200,000 souls, strikes
us as an awful sacrifice for patriotic good ; but he "le
The motion mowtiouldwnasocfilistolw whereee to find the rehctordit of ft. .
could assure the House, that the population of the Upon theoqnsestion being put for thereaSPeakear's leaving the
villages, in the route of the invader, fled to the chair,l4 order to go into the Commluee of Supply, 1
woods, after burning their houses, and returned to Mr. egteezET asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, !AP*
harass the enemy with increased ardour. Let us,
they it was his intention, soon after the recess, to propose arty.
therefore, not. content ourselves with admirin such
snitate i
tiiclthionardsofhitheoefaxthivaptoanz leather .?He was proceeding Id
g
astonishing, nationalaand private sacrifices ; but let The SPEAKIRs reminded' him, that it was not the usage to
us assist in relieving them as far as our means will Pet questions in an argumentative form, as that might irregularlypermit, and he was sure. be could not need to urge
bring on a discussion foreign to the business before the Hotta. • j
frze e
all thei.AinNfoCEL
to British bosoms to give way to a system of ge-
attoOnitwohfictebeEXCHrEetieUvEedß replied, that
upon the sub. i
nerosity so congenial to the British character, and ject, he did not think it expedient to propose auy such measure.
to British feelings. But he would ask, had we no'
GRANT TO RUSSIAN SUFFERERS.
,interest in this contest, except in those sacrifices se
which the Russians had made ? He would hardly The House having resolved itself into a Commit-
hear it said, that we had no interest in checking the tee of Supply, and the Message of the Prince Regent
ambition under which Europe bad groaned
,for the having been read,
last 17 years. Let the House look at what immedi. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rose, and said, that if it had not been for the intima-
ately gave rise to this contest. Russia was invaded,
not merely for the sake of invasion, but for the pur- i lions which he had yesterday received, of some dis-
position to dissent from the grant which he was 'to
•pose of striking a blow at Great Britain,. which '
propose, he would not have thought it necessary to
would finally destroy her commerce, her wealth, and
every thing that was dear to her. Was there any preface his motion with many observations. He'
power in ingenuity that could say we were removed should have been content to leave the motion to the
front this contest ? If we looked at the relief already genuine feeling and sound understanding of the
.afforded by Russia, and the still greater that is likely House, on hearing the proposition itself. He, how-
to follow, would we then withhold our mite from her ever, now hoped that reflection had removed irons
assistance ?—. If we would withhold it from their i the minds of those Honourable Members the first
heinism, could we withhold it when we consider the impressions which they had -yesterday felt upon hear-
sacrifices which the Russians have made for this; ing the Message read. Some of those Gentlemen
country.? No one could accuse him of being insen- I considered that the House had been taken by surprise
sible to the sacrifices made by the people of this upon this subject. The surprise, however, was as
country, in sending large fleets and armies abroad in much upon his Majesty's Government as upon the
time of war, and in supporting the taxation neces- I House : it arose from recent intelligence, most grati-
sary under such circumstances; but these evils, great fying, but at the same time accompanied with me-
as they are, were nothing compared with what those I lancholy circumstances. Such a proposition could
nations feel and suffer, to whose doors and firesides I not have been submitted to the House while the ene-
war is directly brought. All the horrors of this' mY were in the Russian territory, for then there
dreadful invasion will not be confined to those now could have been no calculation of the amount of the
existing ; but would descend with added force to ge. j sufferings of the Russian people, or any idea formed
whether any sum which could be voted would downynerations yet unborn. Was it not then prudent to
conciliate this temper, so honourable to themselves, thing effectual for their relief. theglorious news, bow-
and beneficial to us ? Let it be shewn to them that the i ever, which had arrived within these very few days,
i British nation participates with them in the great informed us, that the enemy had been driven beyond
contest in which they are engaged ; and will afford the boundary of the old Russian Empire: he thought
them all the relief that circumstances will allow. In , it, therefore, better that Parliament should make no
his judgment it would be no more than a fair debt of delay in voting a sum of money, to be applied to the
gratitude, and would operate as an example to the relief of those gallant people who had made such
world at large. His Lordship concluded by moving great sacrifices to oppose the common enemy. He
an Address, an echo to the Message, and stated that was convinced that it Parliament delayed the grant
the sum would be A 200,000. but for a few days, they would be anticipated by the
Lord HOLLAND said, that in the whole course spontaneous contributions of this generous country.
of his Parliamentary life there never had been a ques. He thought, therefore, that it was much more credi-
tion which had placed him under se much embarrass- table for Parliament to take the lead upon this occa-
ment as the present, for he bad considerable doubts sion, and to set the tone to public opinion and, feel-
with regard to the propriety of the proposition which ing, rather than to wait until the spontineous libe-
they were called to consider on. He should, there- rality of the British Public should outrun their deli-
fore, give his assentio the Address ; but leave, the berations, and they should appear to be only follow-1
whole of the responsibility with his Majesty's Minis- I ing an example which others had set. He thought
ters, who had proposed it. Upon the reasons stated lit would be more creditable for the House to lead
by the Noble Earl for this grant. he (Lord Holland) than to follow upon such an occasion. There was
i
must consider it as a questionable measure. It was another consideration which also determined the time
not necessary fOr a British Peer to declare his admi-lof proposing the grant : a great subscription had
ration of the glorious contest in which the Russians been entered into at Sr. Petersburgh, at the head of
are engaged. He ever admired the conduct of the which were all the Members of the Royal Family.
people of Moscow more than the niilitaiy bravery of ComMittees had been appointed in Russia to inquire
the troops ; because a thousand -feelings upheld thej into the particulars of the losses of every individual,
in order to apportion the 'relief to be distributed. If i
'spirit of soldiers and their Commanders in privatiun, !
and even in death itself. But how much greater was !it had net been for this circumstance it would be im-
the sacrifice made by the peasants, or inhabitants of i possible for his Majesty's Ministers to know how any
towns and villages, when destroying the hard earnings sum they could prepose might be applied effectually
of a long lite fur the preservation of their country.t.to the relief of the actual sufferers. As to the amount
He considered, however, that the money had better ; of the sum which ought to be granted, there would
have been sent to Spain to supply Lord Wellington's probably be a difference of opinion. It was impos-
sible to think of giving any thing like a full wants ; but, alder all the circumstances, he would-,
compen-
not oppose the grant. sation foi those sufferings; but when we considered
The question was then put and carried nem. dir.• that those great sufferings and sacrifices had been
After a fewobseraations from the Marquis of Lam- , made, not only for the cause of Russia, but for our
in Lwow. I cause, and that of all Europe, it would be evidently
DOWN against, and the Earl of CLANCARTY
of, the Gold Coin Bill, the Bill went through a Corn- i improper that it should be a very scanty or penurious
grant. It and was ordered to be read a third time to-
rant. It was not merely our general political situa
morrow.—Adjourned. tion which was much improved by the exertions of',
HOUSE OF COMMONS. the Russians, but our commercial situation, and the I
interests of our own manufacturers and suffering
;sob- (Hear, (hear,)
New writs were ordered for the Borough of Dorchester, in
the coon, of Sir C. Bouverle, who made his election for the Bo- whose distresses had yesterday
rough of Downton; for Blechingly, in the room of Sir C.Thlbot, appeared to some Gentlemen as an objection to the
deceased; and for Plyinpton, in the room of one of the Mem- gunt. Every day, every hour, now brought ac-
bees (Colonel Docket) who bad accepted the Chilteru Hundreds. of some relief afforded to their wants,. and
Mr. CALVERT presented a petition from certain persons, i
counts
claiming to have a right to have their votes received at the last :some fresh encouragement held out to their industry.
election for the Borough of Southwark. He was informed by : That indestry, which had been certainly, depressed
the SPEAKER that the time for receiving Election Petitions 1 by .the loss of the American market, had found a
was past.
compensation in the opening of European markets.
Lord OSSULSTON presented a petition from certain persons .ish., .„
wishing to subscribe to a third "I heatre. It was referred to a
Committee. • •
Mr. COCHRANE. JOHNSTONE moved for an aedotint of ! yet too small for
I
.....am which he wished to propose was one which
• an. s would 110 t be too large for this country to grant, nor
Russia to receive. He thought the
the sums paid as remuneration to army agents for the yeareeding ! sum ought to be larger than was ever voted before,! October, 1811.
in similar circumstances because the occasion war
Mr. LONG said, that every diligence was used at the War-
office w expedite the accounts ; and he had no objection neve- greater than had ever before occurred. The amount
seining this as soon as it could be got ready; hut be did not ;elk- of the losses, as well as the sacrifices, which bad
gine tt could be prepared as soon as it was expected by the Hon. been made, were great beyond any former example.
Gentleman.
The heroic conduct, as well as the distress of the saf.
After a short conversation the account was then ordered.
'KEEPER OP TIIE PRIVY PURSE. fevers, were unprecedented. After the burning of
Mr. WMII3IIE/ID made the mutton which he had yeater- Moscow, some hundreds of thousands of persons
day postponed, for an Address to the Prince Regent, praying in- were driven to the shelter of the woods in a Russian
formation whether the Kecper of the Privy Purse had taken the winter. The.sympathy of this country would be a
consolation to the sufferings of tbose gallant men.--
oath prescribed by the Act ofthe 51st of his Majesty ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not per-
ceive how this matter could regularly be brought forward. The it must also be evident that the sum now proposed
Hon. Gentleman who held that office being now out of town, he to be given would go but a small way indeed to re-
could not obtain Information from him whether he had taken iieVe the distresses of our manufacturers ; whereas in
the oath or not. He hoped and trusted that he had taken it, as he
knew that he bad been aware of the necessity imposed upon him Russia, from the great difference of the price of ar-
to take it. As far as he recollected, that clause had been intro-
ticks, and also from the difference of living, it Might
duced into the Regency Bill, at the suggestion of the Hon. Gen. go much farther in relieving distress. Above all, he densan himself, or some of his friends, who then feared that this conceived that. a spontaneous• ands peedy assistance;
afforded by this country, would do much to strong..
Privy Purse, in the hands of a person appointed by her Majesty, ,
then the
might be made use of to oppose the Prince Regent's Govern-
ment. He believed, however, that there was now no fear of '
-friendly feeling which seems naturally to '
that sort ; and as to the Privy Purse itself, it was well known tend to unite the two countries in the closest ties of
that the charges. upon it were more than sufficient to exhaust it. amity. That such a feelin towards Enlishmen
He was not aware, however, of any objection to che information ild g g
being laid before the House. prevailed throughout Russia, was confirmed by cher
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that be by no means intended to testimony of all
country. From those considerations which
the travellers who had visited that
bring a charge, or imply a suspicion that this fund had boon im-i
he had
properly applied. As, however, a time might come whet; the stated, he should propose_
amount of the Plitt)? Purse would exceed the charge upon it, be " That a sum not el ~,----1— ,g2oodzioo stood be —granted to
thought that it was proper that the application of It should be his MaicitY to be a •
sumintentled by Parliament, so far ae to prevent telpiel directed .ta• , a 1 Paned tewartte the rehef of the sufferers in

Mr. PONSONBY
,began, by remarking th t;,
was his intention to vote for the grant of Aft' o% "
, but oertaihly not for the reasons assigned by the 66'1
I Hon. Gentleman who bad spoken last. The Nits,"
c
relief
iteike
tPorinbcee
andeingiennitseGd,tnerecoitt.nvihdluelerewtnondionhmfillenctsmhTlienermeeytrioaiiananfogttdhcoaofrie:pueffd
stri
coca,,,
l'.
cationsttebrsaßussia;tb uiit
gdbi
depended
dei
itnee
nl idea
uoaltrpin
upon
I granted was to be applied. So much for the celei,
of the application. With respect to the epithet ice,'
lad, he thought it would be difficult to find 4„
appropriate term. There could be no efficiele 5,
decided relief. The nation was not rieh enough.
re-build Moscow, or to replace the vast and
el'•
privations caused by the devastations of the reek
armies. He should vote for the motion on widif
ferent grounds. With all his sensibility for tbee4.
mities inflicted upon the Russian people, he cos
consent Co grant a single shilling for the relief el.
Russian peasantry, but would rather vote foe 6
supply, because, looking upon it, in its real light"
a gilt to the Emperor of Russia, he was of open*
that, if refused, it would assume the appear,iiee,,
indifference, of coldness and backwardness, in Del
assist, that Monarch, after the gallant, the undaunted
and persevering
He
he bad made against the c,
mon enemy. He was free to say, that he (kJ it
much relish the form and dress of this begging ms.
sage. It had, upon the very face of it, a load 44*
cant and-hypocritical shape. The House wow re.
collect the language made use of by the Noble Lord
opposite, 9n,the eubjece of Spain, when nik %14t, ,c.
casion allusion was made to the war retried on it
Russia. The Noble Lord expressly declared, ii 4/
the Emperor of Russia desired no peceniare ung,
ante for himself, but earnestly desired that the well.
fices to be made by England might be all applied t.
the success of the Peninsular war. The Kale 4,
at the same time assured, that, all the dittioole
means of Great Britiin &hi been `e:alled foithilith%
cause of indepenctencein Spain, and that wio
spirit and liberality ae co leave scarcely any wit
ertions to be made. Yet with that positiie aunt .
the country was now required to grant A 206,0001
Rtissia, after Russia herself bad decidedly refused
pecuniary aid. Aeother subject, and one still :
natural, gas, the distresses of our own inannf
revs ; and on'that topic; he should not think it
cessary to enquire what Government had dote,
enable it to be generous abroad. He should be
to know what had become of the Bill-against .•
cure Places ? Had that Bill been carried into der
Tit would, by its operation, have saved the sum elle
was at that moment the subject of 'discussion.
was perfectly aware of the fate of the Bill ; bat
had to remark, that had Administration taken up
measure upon the just principles of national econ.
..
the issue would have been extremely different. WI
these impressions, he was persuaded, that were
House to negative the ' motion, the conseq -
would be more injurious to the country than the
-of £200,000 or even of a much larger sum.
Russian Goverment had, beyond all doubt, very j
and distinguished claims to the gratitude of this con
1
try, not only in resisting, without means and c.
operation from England, the vast farce brou;
against it by France, but also in opposing with deci
sion and vigour, in the first instance, the Continental
system, which was attempted to be imposed upon e.
I—(Hear, hear.)—He was candid enough to mini•
viewing as be did, with peculiar satisfaction, the w
traordinary efforts made by Russia, that had I
called upon us for money, he would have cheetisk
voted it. Her conduct was the more exemplary,*
more entitled to honourable distinction and true pr*

as. it was suggested. from her own peculiar situt
as it arose out of circumstances belonging to ,
'alone—as it was, in fact, a spontaneous exertions
her part—the result of free and deliberate sonsidmi
tion. She boldly took her part, and she had
done her duty—without solicitation—without any
gagenient from us—without any pledge—wi
any money. For these seasons he supported tle
grant; and he entertained the confident hope, cis
the people of this country would see it given vie
pleasure, from a sincere conviction, that it was DI
only a tribute due to the gallant and great•effrettd
a people contending for their national independear
but that it would ultimately contribute to the prat
!ion of their own interests.
Mr. BATHURST thought the objection math
the Right Honourable Gentleman to the wads
the Message, " speedy and effectual," altogetherP
founded. They had each most evidently a nectar
relation to the nature of the thing, and the beat.*
sible way in which it could be carried into elms.
In the positive sense of the term, the grant couldes
be speedy, as some time must elapse before the 01l
proposed to be given could be raised and Applied-.
It was also possible, that part, or the whole at mows,
might be contributed in manufactures. The ecu
sfertual was clearly to be understood, not in its owe
direct application, but in conjunction with the caer
.
ores of relief adopted, and which were then carrM
on by the Russian Government. The Right Hus
„Gentleman had observed, that we could not rebuild
Moscow;—but although we could not rebuild Ml*
Cow, we could at least contribute to the raising 4
'dwellings adequate to the wants of a suffering PoPu'
lation. The question before the Committee wal° 111:4
remarkable for novelty ; tar it could not be torgoum
that much benefit had been conferred upon. tit! ittl!,
bitants of Lisbon by a similar grant, when that 9er
tal had been laid waste by an earthquake ;—.Ahd ds
relief extended to the people of Portugal, by Al°
vote of Parliament, was too fresh in the 111'--,d
. Gentlemen to call for any notice of it from hello"
The Right Hon. Gentleman had called the MOE.
a kind of cant, and vilified it with the title ofiit
critical. He should, however, boldly assert, that'
Messlige would be hypocritical indeed, Here the tall_
proposed intended as a supply foraSovereign ers
gaged in such a war, which called for all the res"
I in men, stores, and money, of which his vast etePita.
woe.
was capable. Such a subsidy, for such war,
be idle, absurd, and contemptible.
Mr. POWONBY explained.
Me. WHITBREAD felt it his dory to deelar4
that, basin& exercised his judgment Asiuily as
sible on the question, he could not sulfa' the;
to pass unanimously. In his view of it, he thhh
0..14
and that it would both prove ineffectual, at
would be altogether inconsistent with thosie
OfillitiGeWhich the licilkw vai 11'414 .