Star.
London, England, 1831-03-25 00:00:00

•F.FOBY BILL.

Earl GREY said he was Intrusted with the petition of the freeholders
of the county Down. It was signed by 1.300 persons, oho were In fa-
vour of Parliamentary Reform. The petitioners suggeced. as an im-
provement of the hill then before Parliament, that every member of the
ouse of Commons be required, before he takes his seat, to make oath
l:;at he has not been elected by bribery.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not wish to break in upon
the rule which had been laid down, with respect to avoiding untimely
discussion on the question of reform which then agitated the whole
country, but as he knew how the petition had been got up, he should
say a few words. There was a radical party in Down which had
arranged this petition, end not one respectable freeholder had signed it.
.11 was got up in a private room, and signed by the lowest rabble—
They had obtained only thirteen hundred signatures out of the free.
holders of the county, who amounted to twenty-five thousand. The
petition did not express the feeling of I)own. It might be said, why
was there not a counter-petition ? The fact was, there hod been spa.
thy on the part of the people, because they never expected a measure of
leform like that before Parliament. The noble earl had said on a for.
mer day. that hit plan would be efficient and moderate. Ile admitted
it was efficient, but it was not moderate ; he was sorry to say that un-
due influence had been exercised out of that house. Whatever might
have been the plan of the noble earl and the learned lord on the wool.
sack, the mention of a sacred name should have been avoided. To
create an influence in favour of the Bill, by mentioning the opinion of
the highest estate in the realm, was highly unconstitutional. (Hear,
hear.) He should maintain that the people of England had been ap-
pealed to in that respect. They had been told to support the Bill, be-
cause the King was favourable to it—and that was what he considered
undue influence. The measure ought to have stood on its own merits.
Ile considered the measure a revolutionary one, and his opinion was,
that it would bring ruin on the aristocracy. If that aristocracy did not
Tally round themselves, that house would be shook to the foundation.
Esel GREY.—In the first place, with respect to the petition I bare
had the honour to present, the Noble Lord says it does not speak the
sense of the county. It is sent to me as the result of a county meeting
at which the High Sheriff presided. It is stated to me that no opposi-
tion was expressed. It is stated to me that this is signed by thirteen
hundred respectable freeholders ; but the Noble Lord Rays it is not
signed by any respectable person, but by the lowest rabble. One
signature is Michael Charles White, the High Sheriff; standing not at
the top or bottom, but amongst the signatures. Another signature is
that of an Individual who is known as a physician, Dr. Alexander Mac-
donald. I also find the name of Mr. }ores. who has represented the
county, and is known to be a gentleman of large fortune and respecta-
bility. (Hear.) Those names are sufficient to contradict the assertion
of the Noble Lord, when he says " there is only rabble."
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said a few words in explana-
tion. _ _ _

Earl GREY, in continuation, observed, that he knew it was often
the practice to run down petitions which contained opposing sentiments,
and that might be the feeling on the part of the Noble Marquis, who
thought the desire for Reform was not general. The noble Earl de-
clared his opinion was, that there never did prevail in this country a
sentiment so unanimous as that which had been expressed in favour of
the plan introduced by his Majesty's Government. But it seemed, ac-
cording to the noble Marquis that apathy ptevailed, and indifference
with respect to that plan. leso, there could not be the danger which
induced the noble Marquis to call upon their Lordships to rally and
support their own dignity. With respect to the bill, he should not be
seduced on the occasion to follow the inegularity of the noble Lord, by
entering into argument upon the merits. The noble Lord had confined
himself, u others had done, to mere assertions, but he would tell him
that the principle of the bill was Reform, and that the present state of
the country required Reform. (Hear. hear.) No one could deny that
fact. (Hear, hear.) I can refer, said the Noble Earl, to the Lite de.
cision in the House of Commons. We may be told there was but a
majority of one, but he looked to the principle. How was that majority
obtained, but upon an acknowledgment of the principle of the mea-
sure. (A cry of no, no, from the Marquis of Londonderry.) I say
yea, yes. The opposition to the measure was accompanied by an ad.
mission that Retorm was necessary, and if the measure was rejected,
another ought to be brought in. Not only is it admitted by the pee.
ph, but the House of Commons say Reform is necessary. A noble
lord who spoke last night, is also for Reform, bit-by-bit. A Reform
that would satisfy nobody, but sow the seeds of disappointment and,
perpetual discontent. The noble marquis considers the measure •
step to universal suffrage, tut it is not. On the first day of thesession
I stated to the house, that one of the most important measures they
could adopt was the measure of Parliamentary reform. I did not know
at that time l should be in the situation I now fill. Itihen I was called
by our Gracious Sovereign to till the situation, I urged strongly that I
could not 'suet• him faithfully unless I was at liberty to bring about a
measure for reform in Parliament. (Hear.) Then, the Noble Lord
says, the sacred name of the first estate of the realm has been used
to give undue weight to the measure. Your Lordships, lam sure,
will acquit me of having made any improper use of that.sacred name,
nor do I know that any one has done inure than any person might be
expected to do under the circumstances. When a measure is brought in
by the Ministers of the Crown, it must be notorious that that measure
cannot be btought In by them without the sanction of authority. (Hear.)
Beyond the inference drawn. fairly front that proceeding I do not know
that any thing has been done. The noble lord says it was unconstitu-
tional in a minister of the crown to use that sacred name. I have done
nu such tiling, but as a minister of the crown, in concert with my col-
)..agues, have submitted such a proposition as the servants of the crown
might submit. In proposing the measure which has excited so much
alarm in the noble lord, I have no intention to support annual parlia.
Bents or universal suffrage. Under these cirmmstances I leave the
house to judge whether the noble lord has made out his charge of an im-
proper use having been made of the sacred name ? But threats have been
held out ef the consequences of revolution if he did not abandon the
measure. I will make no promise. I will stand or fall by tine measure.
I will not calculate upon defeat, and nothing shall detract from it.
I do not say that slight alteration may not occur, but by the measure,
as it is in substance, I will stand or fall. I will not shrink from pub-
lic duty ; and I now think 1 have answered the noble lord." The
noble earl then observed, that the measure would support the dignity of
the aristocracy. He was one of the aristocracy by birth and station.—
He considered the aristocracy a branch of the constitution, combined
with others for the general advantage. If it ceased to have that cha-
racter, he should no longer wish to be one of the aristocracy. It should
bt !he meditator between the crown and the people. The proposed bill
would keep up the respectability of the aristocracy, by throwing from
them that power which made them odious to the people. (Hear.)
TLe Marquis of DOiri-NSHIRE spoke to the respectability of some
of the petitioners.
Tte Marquis of LONDONDERRY explained.
The Duke of WELLINGTON thought the proposed measure
would throw down all the established institutions of the country, and'
there would be no confidence in parliament. He repeated his termer
assertion, namely, that there was no reason whatever for alteration of
the constitution of parliament. The parliament had well served the
country, and was entitled to public gratitude. His Grace had served
his sovereign 45 years in the field, in embassies and councils, during
the most eventful periods, and his experience enabled him to say he
could nut look at the measure for Reform without considering the day '
on which it should pass as the moment front which they might date the

downthe country.
of try
The Marquis of CLAN RICA RDR did not think that there was
any well-grounded Qum for the Noble Doke's apprehensions. The
Noble Duke had said that the measureof Reform, brought into the
other House of Parliannot by his Majesty's Ministers, might please
a nuijorily of the people, for that very reason he (the Marquis
of Clanricarde) should give the museum his entire support when it awe
bifore their Lordship.
Lord FARNHAM would pietist lipiost the msjelfvf of saY Pe.

potation being considered the most respectable portion of it ; of one
thing he was certain that those persons in Ireland, who were for Re-
form, were also advocates for a repeal of the legislative union which
existed between the tc -Ariel.