Star.
London, England, 1830-04-30 00:00:00

GEKEHAL DISTRESS.

Earl GREY presented a petition agreed upon ate meeting of the
county of Northumberland, complaining of distress, and praying a
rigid system of economy in the expenditure of Government. The
noble earl said the petition was signed by the high sheriff only, and
therefore, in point of fonn, could only he k received as the petition of,
that individual ; but it was unanimously agreed upon by the meet-
ing, and conveyed their sentiments. After the noble earl had read
the greater portion of the petition, he proceeded to say that, from
the local knowledge which he possessed of that county, he could
state that the distress of which the petition compl tined was very
great—(hear.) Perhaps not so great as in some parts of the
kingdom. It was, however, he was sorry to say, very great. Ile
felt bound to bear his testimony to the statement in that part of the
petition. There must, of necessity, he some general cause for that
distress. (Hear, hear.) Some. however, attributed that cause to
one circumstance, some to another. He had no hesitation in saying
(as was understood, for the noble earl was imperfectly heard
at times below the bar in the observations which be made)
that the change in the currency had produced a considerable
share of the distress and difficulties which pressed upon all classes—
the manufacturing and the agricultural, as well the shipping inter-
ests. Doubtless much difficulty arose from an excessive burden of
debt, which had been contracted in a depreciated currency, and
which was now to be paid in a metallic one. He thought that the
measure which had passed in 1819, and subsequently, relative to Lile
currency, had been passed without sufficient foresight. He begged
leave, however, to state at the same time, that althotkell he had ex-
pressed his conviction of the cause of the distress, yet he was one of
the last in the world who would propose or accede to any measure
as a remedy that would tend to a breach of the public faith. lie
thought that something might ix done of a beneficial descriptim
he meant a revision of that measure which related to small notes,
under a proper system of banking--a system that would prevent that
abuse of the old mode which was practised in the year 1825, with
effects so disastrous. lie thought that the present anomalous sys-
tem of the law of banking ought to be amended. Sonic measure to
assimilate the law of England relating to banking in Ireland and
Scotland ought to he made. IVltat was good for Scotland and Ire.
land, he conceived, would be likewise good for England. There
was this anomaly produced by the present law—in the county to
which he belonged, although English small notes were not in eireu•
lation, yet the Scotch small notes were. In the county of Northum.
berland, for 30 miles front the Scottish border, these notes circulated.
The coals beyond the border were purchased, and paid for by the
farmers and others in this illegal currency ; it was totally impos-
sible to avoid such a mode of dealing where two systems of banking
prevailed. lie really believed that this was connived at by the Bri-
tish Government. What was also not a little extraordinary was,
that no penalty could be laid on the persons who received these
mall notes in England, whilst the person who paid them was liable
to one. He thought that this part of the system, at least, ought to
be revised. Feeling that he was a partner in this mistake, by coon-
tenancing the measure, he acknowledged his enor, and hoped tout
t'te measure revised. lie again begged to say that he should never
consent to any system which went to break faith with the public
creditor.

The petition was then read, and laid on the table.
The Archbishop of YORK presented a petition from a parish in
his diocese, praying the abolition of slavery.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR, Mr. HOLMES, Lord STANLEY, Mr.
STANLEY, and Mr. MARSHALL, brought up the Warrington Rail.
way Bill, Wigan Railway Bill, the Leeds and Selby Railway Bill,
with other private bills, all of which, at a subsequent period of the
evening, were read a first time.

14.1.21afer, from the Treasury. presented at the bar an account
of the amount duties paid on foreign corn imported for home con.
sumption from the sth January, 1828, to the sth January, 1830.
Some judicial returns from the equity courts in Ireland were pre.
sented at the bar, a!td laid on the table.

BRITISH SPIRITS, AND RUM•
The Earl of ItIALMESBURY—iIIy lords, I rise for the purpose
of presenting a petition from a most respectable body of individuals
connected with a trade of great importance—l speak of the dis-
tillers of the united kingdom. I shall not trespass long on your
lordships' time, especially as my noble friend opposite (Viscount
Goderich,) who, live years ago, when Chancellor of the Exche-
quer, introduced the measure to Parliament which is now about
being departed from, intends to offer some explanation on the sub-
ject. This petition would not have been framed, had it not been
for a circumstance to which I have alluded—via. that an inti-
mation has been recently made of the intention of government to
lay an additional duty of one shilling a gallon on British corn spi-
rits, without any additional duty being about to be laid on rum. 1
will, with your lordships' permission, shortly state the contents of
the petition. In the year 1825, an arrangement was made by th•
administration ; my noble friend being, as I have stated to your
lordships, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The subject was be-
fore parliament, and agreed to. A considerable reduction was
then made in the duties on spirits. The distiller of British spirits,
it was agreed upon, should pay a duty of Is. Gd. per gallon less
than the duty imposts! on rum. That having been agreed upon,
after a diligent inquiry and investigation of the subject, the next
question that now presents itself is—why is it to be departed from P
Has any thing occurred which renders it necessary to deviate from
the principle then laid down ? It was not given to the British dis-
tiller as a matter of favour that he should pay the duty which I have
named ; but it was an Arrangement made, after a minute and lengthy
investigation. Your Lordships need not be told that rum, when
brought into this country, is fit for immediate consumption ; but
British spirits must be rectified and compounded before they can be
brought into the market for use. This process is only accomplished
after an expense of front Gd to led a gallon. I will, however, take
a medium, and say &I a gallon. On this head alone there is an ad.
ditional expense to the British distiller. The next point to which
the petitioners allude is one, 1 think, of considerable importance--
not only to them, but to that class to which I belong —the agricul.
lutist.. I am now speaking of the operation of the corn laws.—
The distiller says that he is unable to purchase corn so cheap as he
otherwise would do, were it not fur these laws. This has been cal-
-1 culated by some as operating to the extent of a shilling a gallon on
the spirits which he distils. 1 ought also to mention, my Lords,
the operation of the malt duty, which acts to his disadvantage. lie
is obliged to use a considerable quantity of malt, on which he must
pay a duty. Now, in Scotland there is a drawback allowed on malt
used, hut not in t.ngland. From a return to which 1 have had as cess, I find no less a quantity of spirits than 9,000,000 of gallons
distilled In Scotland. No doubt, of this quantity, a considerable
portion finds its way into this country. When brought to England
as • spirit, there is a malt duty charged. But there is another
point to which I wish to call your Lordships' attention. By the
regulation of 1825 the sun) of 250,0001. was expended in altering
premises to carry on the trade 'Ellis sum was laid out in the be-
lief that the regulation would be permanent—(hear, hear). With
respect to the third head in the petition, my lords, for a justification
of giving Is Gd a gallon to corn-distilled spirits, there is a vast
mass of regulations, occupying no less than G 2 folio pages, front
which the West India distillers are free. When your lordships
look at this, 1 think your lordships will comitier the corn distiller
ought to have some advantage. I am assured by respectable indi-
viduals that they would willingly compound for fid a gallon add/.
tional duty, to be freed from these burdensome regulations. Your
lordships are aware that a very large portion of corn is consumed in
distillation. I find no less titan 1,400,000 quarters of various de-
scriptions of corn were used last year (we believe). The corn that
way be used for that purpose is that which is often unfit for others.
The two last seasons have been peculiarly unfavourable for harvest,
and a considerable quantity has been thus consumed not useable in
any other manner. As a question, therefore, interesting to the agri-
culturist, it becomes' important to hint when ft is proposed to im-
pose an additional duty on corn-distilled spirits. I trust that those
a ho are in favour of the West India interest, for whom I feel as
much as any one, will not be satisfied under these additional duties
as a mode of relief for that body. If 1 were one eif the West India

proprietors. I should not ceesitler It; • proposed nieasute as a boon.
I should rather decline to be so relieved ; for, when my case became
more aggravated in its distress, I should not like to he told, " You
have been already relieved, by having a duty of Is a gallon put upon
British oorn spirits." I would say to those who now propose this
dote, " (Jive us something more substantial - it is not enough to !
relieve u 5.... Have the goodness to inquire into the duties on sugar,
and see whether we cannot have none:thin; done more walculettel
to benefit vs." Your lordships are not probably aware that the
price is 23a. whilst the duty is 275--(hear)—and this not an ad
valorem duty 1 for Are same duty is paid upon every description of
sugar. It it also important too, not only to the West India pro.
prietor, but to the poor in this country, sir ce tea has become uni.
venally drank, 'and sugar is essential. It would be of considerable
importance to have an ad valorem duty. This piddling mode oil
relief, by plating a duty of Is. a gallon on core spirits, will be but',
of little advantage to the West Indian proprietors. and of consider-
able disadvantage to the British distiller. lam not sure too wit..
they the effect of this proposed duty may not increase smuggling.
ant not certaie, whether 14 per cent. to the present price of British
spirits. which Is. added to 7s. is, may not tarn the scale on the
part of the smuggler. Living, as I do, in a county when smug-
gling was carried on to a vast extent, producing so much mischief
and evil—for nothing tends to demoralize the lower classes more
than this unhappy mode of life, but which hart been, fortunately,
by means of low dirties, and the activity of the preventive system,
which, by the way, is ro trifling expense to the country—it is na.
tural that I should view with alann and anxiety any proposition
which is likely to produce again those wretched pc pe; and cent
that then prevailed. A thousand pitons of spirits will have an
additional duty of 501. Now this is a considerable :Mit, and may
tempt persons to be engaged in smuggling transactions. The pt.
thinners, my lords, do not, however, object to the proposed duty,
provided a like duty is put upon runt. If this duty tended to di-
ininieh the consumption of spirits, I should think it rather a for-
tunate circumstance than otherwise, as I hold it to be highly iuju.,
rious to the health and morale of the lower deuce the habit of
drinking epititous liquors. If you increase the duties, not only
will you encourage persons to become smugglers, but illicit stills
are put into practice. The noble earl opposite (Earl Grey) has
very ably pointed out the folly of the anomaly of the existing law
respecting banking in England and Swatted. Nothing can be,
more absurd than to have two different laws on the same subject.
What is the ease of, this very subject as the law now stands ?
Why, that a person can purchase, as it were, with one hand, spirits
fn. a gallon less than with the other. In one place he can pay fur
it with a pound.note, and with a metallic currency in another.
If, therefore, the paper be in a depreciated currency, he posses an
advantage. I beg to apologise to your lordships for having taken
up MO much of your time—(hear), and I will now move that the pe-
tition be read. The petitioners, in addition to their prayer, trust
that the duty in question will not be imposed, at least without
investigation. If it be persevered in, I may probably, on a future
day. submit a motion to the house to take the rabject into consi.
deration.

Viscount GODERICH said that the subject was doubtless one
of considerable importance. The general principles of policy which
were now to be departed from, having been adopted when lie was
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he felt it right to offer some ob.
serrations to the house on the subject. In order to explain those
principles which he took the liberty of recommending for the
adoption of Parliament, he must be allowed to say that they origi.
nated in the necessity of taking some decided steps for putting an
end to the system of illicit distillation which prevailed in Ireland
and Scotland. So great and manifold were the evils arising from
that system, no one unacquainted wills them could conceive their
extent. In various parts of Ireland something very like a civil war
had sprung up between the people and the kiag's troops—(hear,
hear.) The most severe and most unconstitutional laws had been
adopted by parliament for lessening those evils, but all without ef-
fect. The only remedy that appeared to him was to a great reduc-
tion in the duty on spirits. The duty on Irish spirits was then ss.
Qt. it was lowered in the year 1823, to its present rate—viz-2..10d.
This was a great redaction, but it was absolutely called for. It was
clear that in proportion as the duty on Irish and Scotch spirits were
reduced, the English would be aificted ; but it was, however, quite
impossible to see exactly how the English duty ought to be regu-
lated. At that time it was illegal to have Scotch and Irish whisky
in this country ; nothing could be more absurd than this regulation.
In the following year, 1824, the West India interest was repre.
'tented as being labouring under very considerable difficulties. One
of the great causes of their complaint was, the difficulty of
finding a market for their rum. They represented that if greater
freedom of access to the English market were obtained, it would
go a considerable way towards compensating them fur the loss they
had sustained in sugar. The duty on rum was about Is. 6d. a
gallon snore than the nominal duty on British corn spirits. In the
lyear 1824, in order to meet this case of complaint, lie introduced a
measure into the other House of Parliament, the object of which
was to reduce the duty' upon rum. lie acted upon this principle,
that the cultivators of the soil in the West Indies had as much right
Ito protection as any other class of people. The principle upon which
he acted wan equality. His object was not to favour one class more
than another. The duty was accordingly lowered. In the following
year, 1824, having endeavoured to make himself acquainted with
the details on the subject, and moat intricate and difficult to be un-
derstood they were. (Hear.) lie then proposed the law which now
prevailed on that subject in England, Scotland, and Ireland. It
appeared to him that if the duties were to be the same on rum as on
British corn spirits, an advantage would thereby accrue to theWcat
Indian interest. The effect of the corn laws, it might be assumed,
would tend to diminish the profit of the British distiller. The par.
tics themselves made propositions of what they considered likely
to equalize the duties. The British distiller claimed 2s. a gallon,
as a protecting duty. The West Indian proprietors argued against
it ; they urged that not more than Is. a gallon could be afforded. He
(the noble viscount) naturally took the division between the two, and
put the duty at Is. 6d. This, he thought, would gives fair protec-
anti to the British distiller. At that time he assumed that there
would be an increase in the consumption of spirit., which would tend
to diminish the falling off in the) revenue which would neces.
wily follow. lie calculated that the consumption of rum would
be much greater than heretofore, and was right in his anticipation.
At that period, it was said he had been mistaken in his calcula-
tions ; but the result was, that he had rather under-rated the loss of
revenue than over-rated, as was insisted. The loss to the revenue
amounted to 600,0001. but, on the supposition that there would be
lan increased consumption, lie calculated that the actual loss would
not exceed 300,0001. And so it proved. Flom the official papers,
he found that in the last two years there had been an increase to
this amount, thus showing that he had not proceeded in his calcu-
lations on false data. In the year 1828, the loss to the revenue,
compared with the period previous to the reduction, was not more
than 200,0001. and in the year 1829, he found the consumption of
rum had increased from the preceding year. His expectations had
not been disappointed, for there was at least one-third more added
to the revenue than he had calculated upon, and which he had been
mitred that he had rated much too high. Ile confessed it did not
appear to him that any ground existed in policy in making a change
from the arrangement which had been adopted. He was not aware
that any circumstances had occurred which made it necessary to de-
part from that arrangement which had been entered into. He
thought that a stimulus would be given to smuggling by the pro-
posed measure. The ingenuity which was displayed by gentlemen
engaged in that practice, and by ladies, too--(a laugh,)—for they
mingled in it—was truly ludicrous. Although the effect of the
proposed measure would not relieve the West India proprietor very
greatly, he could not agree in what the noble lord had said on this
subject, that it would be of no benefit whatever. After some fur-
ther remarks as to the probable advantage which would flow from
an equalisation of the duties on East and West India sugar, the
noble viscount concluded with saying, that he was not aware of any
circumstances which made it desirable or expedient, or at all nem-
wiry, to deviate front the principles of the arrangement which had
been entered into.

The Earl of iIIALMLSBURY, in explanation, said he had not
stated that tio benefit would be obtained by the %Vest India pro.
prietor, but that it was of a trifling description. He added, that he
believed since the year 182 the consumption of runt bad inert t.'ed
bb per cent.
The petition was then read, and laid on the table.
Wallis 's divorce bill passed through a committee.
D'Oyly's divorce bill was read a third time and prisrd.
The Karl of DARNLI:Y presented a petition from Gillingham,
Chatham, and other parishes in Kent, praying that poor laws might
be extended to Ireland.

The Earl of LIMERICK protested against the introduction of
poor laws in titut country.
The petition was then read, and laid on the table.
The Marquis of SALISBURY then moved the order of the

Palfryman was called in and eon:tinted belay.
Thomas Appleby, an Alderman of East Rettord, a, k! colt:JO
the receipt of 10 guineas after the election of 1812 ; 40 guineas in
1818 ; and 20 guineas in 1820.
In answer to the Marquis of SALISBURY—He alw is, ete..d
conscientiously. The money had been left input:els at los hotiee.
He kept it, but could not say whether it was tiw electio purpesi
or not.
Samuel Buxton, Burgess of East Hetford --Knew Alt Ilaoratt
the alto ney, who promised him 10 guineas after the eleetico
1812. Witness never asked him what it was for. He reale e!
parcels containing 21 guineas each, four times, twice fiesta ercL,
of the successful candidates, after elections. We. Feats ad
-
Mr. Crompton had been the successful candidates when 1w
received two of those parcels. (Hear.) Ht voted act:edit g to
his principles.
In the course of the crow examination by lewd DIOR r A M,
Lord ELLIENBOROL'OH begged to call the attention of the
house to the abandonment of its established custom for rob!' lord,
to stand while examining witnesses. Such had been the habit of
noble lords during the Queen's trial, and on all similar procesdhlgs
within his memory, with the exception of the present, and a few
other occasions during the last year. Ile blamed himself for rot
having made these observations soontr, hut he felt himself Impelled
to do so theu on account of the colloquial and inaudible to'e into
which the noble lord who had been examining the witness hail &lieu
—a tone which, while it naturally followed from the habit of reble
lords sitting during examination, rendered the substatese of 11, it ex.
amination quite unintelligible to those who, like himself, rlieuld
happen to sit at some distance from the bat
linid DURHAM said he could not but scorn his thanks to the
noble lord for the allusions winch he had made to his (Lord Dur-
ham's) manner. He could not hut r..!mark, however, that if he
should feel inclined to take example front any individual of that
house, it certainly should not be front the noble lord, who had fa-
voured him with his strictures. ‘Vith respect to the circumetance
which had given rise to these observations, it was one which affected
the privileges of their Lordships, and to theO decision on the sv I) •
jeer he should willingly how.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH disclaimed all intention of ailudine,
in the sliginest•Jegree, offensively to the conduct of the noble boil
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he should take the liberty o:
explaining what be under;ood to be the practice of the house in re
spect to this matter, which was. that a t01.d.: lord should wand
alien pursuing a long systematic line of examination ; but when I
only put questions incidentally in a witness' lie might then remit-,
his seat. In the prset.t case he thought VI: Noble lend (Durham)
should Ise elloweil to exerc;se ies eliscret .
Lord Mini A M then proceeded with his examination sitting,
Wm. Hudson. a shoemaker and burgess of Last Retro& for 22
years, was examined —He received 20 guinea. in 1814 front Mr.
Hannan, in a room in the Angel tun. In 1818 11C reeeive.l 4')
guineas after the el:ohm, and a similar stint in 1820. This money
was left at his house—it was not owing to hint, he did not know
who sent It, nor for what purpose. How could he ?
This witness, as well as his predecessor, resorted to every sub.
terfuee, however palpable, before be could he brought to admit
that he understood the money to have been scut hint for slectiee
purposes.
At a Quarter past Nine the House adjourned.