Star.
London, England, 1822-03-19 00:00:00

sinners in 1784. To 1790, Lord Spencer being them 1
t the head of the Admiralty, the suggestions of the
Commissioners of 1784 were adopted, and the esta.
,blishment *as not then swelei out as it *as in the
following year. Three individuals had then been as.
signed to each Commission. That number hid been
reduced to two. If the number of Coramissitms could
be reduced, it would be his duty to suborn this to
Ministers, and by them he was certain it wool ; be
readily acquiesced in, when proved to be practicable
and consistent with the public interest. The Esti-
mates nosy produced were £987,000 lower than those
of last year. So large a reduction having taken place,
he had expected that thej would be carried by accla.
mation,_ and not that evety item would be cr.ibbled
on and debated. Since, however, they were to be
debated, he hoped the House would take the fact,
that a saving of nearly one million bad been erected
as a sort of text.
Mr. BERNAL thought the icallant Officer ong7l,
not to feel angry that the Estimates were deba..:l
Things might be pointed out of which he was r0,.-
aware, and which, when pointed out, he wopld b.;
happy to redress. 11 such savings could be made
now, it might be fair to ask why they had not been
made three or four years ago? He did not with t.
quibble, and he was confident those about him v. c.:e
above anything of the kind.
Sir BYAM MARTIN did not mean to apply tl e
word quibble in the sense in which the lion. Ger° .
man seemed to take it.
Sir I. COFFIN said, the establishments could not
be broken down all at once. He had to reply to tLe
statement of the Hon. Gentleman that ',fly:der aril
shot was constantly being discharged ove: board, that
our Navy was reduced to 14 sail of the line, 112 1.1.
gates, and 61 store ships and other vessel, in all I t•:7.
'What they had to do was to fire five salutes each in
the course .onf the year, in addition to going through
their weekly exercise. This, he said, was a cnriec:
view of the case. He did not wish to disguise tl
facts, for he had no wish to become a new Lord of
the Admiralty, if that Board were to be re,tured to
its pristine beauty.
Mr. HUME thought the Committee aught not t,..%
give in to the idea of the Hon. Officer, by
from discussing the Estimates. He went over the
former charges under the same heads, and contended
the present reductions did i.ot go far enough. T4kir4;
the Estimates of 1821, for the Half-pay and Super.
annuation List, he would compare them with ti.:
Estimates of that year :

Their total amount was in I S'2l
In the present year -

£1,484,000
1,453,000

aC31,003

The whole reduction being
This, being fairly taken, was the reduction on
he would call the Live Establishment I Now with re-
spect to the building—
Sir J. YORKE addressed the Chair, but was call:td,
to order. He said he wished to speak to order. Ile!
thought it irregular to advert to another head of ex,
pense—( Cries of Order!)
Mr. HUME maintained that he had a right to pr.?.
vent the speech of the Hon. Member from producing
that impression which it was calcula ed to create
if it passed unnoticed. The charge for ship bui:ding
had been 1,091,0001. It was brought down to
610,0001. being a reduction of 400,0001. on o:ioitem.
—The dock yard ex f eases had been reduced from
454.000/. to 151,000/. Ile however wished the Com-
mittee not to suppose that more credit belonged :a
Ministers than was really their due. This saving h.:l
.only been effected by reducing the numbers employeL
He should be glad if the principle laid down by n-
nisters for recalling to active service those who wete
superannuated, were really acted upon. All he would
say was, he hoped they should see at a inter.: day
some good result from the determination which had
been announced. He was aware that by seniority in-
dividuals sometimes got to the head of an office, who
were unequal to the proper discharge cf it, duties;
but these instances, so far as he was informed, were
very few. But professing to act on the new principle,
from the exper'erce they had of all Governments, it
was to be found that it was not merit that would g tin
promotion, but interest and favour. For his own part,
he would rather that seniority should be the rule of
advancement, and that when a superior man F as to
be brought forward, his promotion should be an ex-
ception to the rule. He wished to know what incon-
venience had been experienced in the Artillery Corps
from acting on that principle which he now advo-
cated? Take them Officer for Officer, he believed the
Artillery Officers would be found superior to the
Officers in the Army. In one item he found a small
increase. Instead of six, there were seven messen-
gers, one at 1151, two at 1101. two at 100/ and two
at 701. per ann. He wished to know the cause of this ?
Sir B. MARTIN stated the present number to be
insufficient. They had daily representations on the
subject of their being too few.
Sir I. COFFIN spoke to the great labour which
the messengers had to perform.
Mr. CROKER said, a Return had been ordered
by the House of the state of the Admiralty in 1793,
and he found that the expense was greater then than
it was now. The office which he had the honour to
hold had a salary of 8001. but the known and admit-
ted fees amounted to 5,0001. and other emoluments,
he had been informed, made the total 12,000/. When
"the salaries were looked at, it would be found th..:
they were utterly inadequate, but the fees were enor-
mous. The expense to the Public was the same then
as now, but the sums then realized by the secretary,
which gave him a vast fortune, were now more equi-
tably divided among the other Officers. To shew
that the attention of Government had been steadily
directed towards reducing the Admiralty Establish-
ment, he would state the scale on which they had been
reduced through a series of years. The numbers re-
tained at the several periods he would particularise
were as follow :

In 1813
1814
1815
1816
1817

55 I In 1818

1819

_ IS
- '26

18!0

29 I 1891 to 1322 -

It would thus be seen that the reductions effected
were not done on a sudden, but from that period
when we were in the height of war they had goae
on gradually. Perhaps it would be said the addi-
tional Clerks who had been employed were kept
out of sight. He would state what the numbers hal
been that were employed in the four Navy Offices.—
In 1813, there were 550. In INV, the 550 were
reduced to 446, and itl 1822, the last meatioac.l