Star.
London, England, 1809-03-18 00:00:00

canal corruption ; but he Must,
such a confusion of moral
distinguishing estimate of
tude, Would be to the interest
Was not, he would ask, personal
more heinous and dangerous
cies of connivance which amounted
bled knowledge of a corrupt practice that WAS going
on ? It was material for Gentlemen, particularly his
Right HOn . Friend ( Mr. Bathurst ) who could not admit
that corruption, and that species of connivance were the
same—it was material for them to consider whether,
by their adopting large, comprehensive, and covering
words, if they should afterwards wish to carry-up some
vote of censure to the Throne, they were not sapping
their own foundation, and taking away the very
ground upon which they stood ? If they should ac-
quit the Duke of York of all corruption, and conni, ,
vance at corruption, they would be precluded from 1
following up that acquittal by any resolution of cen- '
sure. (Loud cries of Question, question ! Withdraw with-
draw !) It had been imputed to him on a former
night, that he practised a Parliamentary manoeuvre ;
but that charge would, with more propriety, be ap-
plied to the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend.—
Itappeared
that his Right Honourable Friend perse-
vered in the conclusion of the proceeding which he
had stated in his first able speech upon the subject,
and that he was disposed not to follow up the pro-
ceeding by any measure upon what he called the rrio-
I-al part of the question. That part of the subject',
he had taken care to have introduced in the manner
in which alone it ought to have been mentioned, in
the amended address which he had submitted to the
House. (Cries of Question, question !) The bare im.
morality of the case was not a ground for Parliament
to proceed upon. They possessed, in his opinion,
considerable censorial powers ; but notwithstanding
that powers of that particular description belonged to
Parliament, it was not bound to act upon them, un-
less some political consequence was to have resulted 1
from the immorality to which such powers might be
applied. It did not appear that any inconvenience
in the discharge of the official duties of the Duke of
York's department had resulted from the immoral
connection which he had formed, though some of the
appointments which had been solicited by his Mis;
tress had unquestionably been obtained. (A genera)
cry of Question, question ! Withdraw, withdraw !) If
the Resolution should be agreed to, there would re•
main no case upon which to address the Throne ;
and in order that Gentlemen, who approved of one
part of it, and could not vote fur the other, might
Have an opportunity of moving their separation by an
amendment, he put it to the worthy Baronet, whe-
ther it would not be desirable for him to withdraw
his amendment ; but if the Honourable Baronet
should still press his amendment, he should certainly
vote against it. (Loud crier of Question,quertion.)
r Sir T. TURTON observed, that it was impossible
for the House to hear him-at all (he was extremely
hoarse), unlUss it should be perfectly silent. The ar-
Igumeuts of the Honourable Gentleman who put it to ,
him to withdraw his Amendment, had been directed
against the complex nature of the original proposition.
Not one of his' observations applied to his motion,
and therefore, he could not consent to withdraw his
Amendment. 1
Mr. HIBBERT (amidst loud and general calls for•the
question) expressed Ms concurrence in the opinion that
bare connivance was not equally blameable with actual
corruption (here the uproar for the question wai so general
and loud, as to drown the voice of the Hon. Member, who
sat down is consequence.)
Lord HENRY PETTY rose, in consequence of
the manner in which the last Speaker had been treated,
to call the House of Commons to order. From the
palpable indisposition which the House manifested to
discharge its duty that night, he thought it would be
useless to continue the discussion, and therefore moved
that the House do now adjourn.

Upon the question being put that the House do
adjourn,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
expressed his hope that the House would not concur
in the motion of the Noble Lord, though at the same
time, after the protracted debates that had taken
place, it was not surprizing if some' degree of impa-
tience had been shewn to come to a decision.
The SPEAKER observed, that it would become
the House to consult its own dignity, by a more de-
agrons attention to the business under consideration.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER .4
contiaued. He trusted, that after the ability with
which the debate had been-hitherto conducted, the
Howe would not, at its close, shew to the country
etid,.eti the world, that it would not persevere in the
some temper which had been up to that moment ob-
served in the discussion. The question then before
thit House was the most important, though not the
whole of the case ; but unless the House should en-
tertain:it with patience, they would not get out of the .
business with the same credit to which their past pro-
ceedings were entitled. The motion of the Noble
Lord had not arisen from any wish to interrupt the 1
discussion, but had been forced upon him by the im-
'patience of the House : he should not therefore pro-
pose to negative that motion, as he hoped the Noble
Lord would withdraw it, and then he trusted that the
House would pay that attention to the sentiments of
gentlemen which the importance of the subject merited.
.ord HENRY PETTY had no objection to with-
draw his motion, if the House was disposed to attend
with temper to the discussion.
Mr. \VI-I_ITBREAD meant not to object to the
withdrawing of the Noble Lord's motion, but to
urge to the House the propriety, • from personal con-
'.sideration for the Speaker, of abstaining from any
course by which the fatigues to which he was sub-1
jetted might be increased.
The motion of the adjournment being withdrawn,
Mr. HIBBERT agaia rose and stated, that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer had told the HOUse, that
:If his Resolution should be carried, they might vote
.either for the removal of the Duke of York, or for his
continuance in office. Now, he would ask, whether,
it the House should vote that the Duke of York
was not guilty of corruption, or of . participation
in corruption, or of connivance at corruption, it
would be open to the House to vote for the rem-
val of his Royal Highness ? He hoped that the
Han. Baronet would withdraw his Amendment, and
meet the Resolution of the Right 4onpur. able Gen-
sleman with a direct negative—but if i 4-
melt should be pressed, he sh4.4,feclic Ai*, to
oppose it. . •...

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after the exhausted state of the Miss 'Taylor's evidence, he shewed his ingenuity in
unwilling to oar fdrnself t - endeavouring, to establish the fact of a conspiracy.
.had"an iinportallt duty tepee ;14 first, he did not consider the note of much conse-
endeavour to do it in a few word-. quince, and contended that it might have been writ-
from those With whom he could ten by the Duke with very innocent intentions. 13ut
easiou, but he had a bounden' when he wanted to establish the conspiracy, he endea-
must peffortri it faithfully. aroured to shew that the nine was forged, and boy shew-
had been said, that the Houle toiild not come to -any- sing the means. that isa such an event would be placed
conclusion, uoglee evidence had nist been taken open within the reach of the conspirators, at the same time
oath ; but he 'Would contend, that the House was that so little use was made of them, established in his
bound to form its opinion upon the evidence that had mind-the strongest proof that the,note was no forgery.
been laid before it. The conviction upon his mind He agreed with. his Right Honourable Friend as to
was, that there vies no ground for a charge of peso- die distinction whichhetook between. different degrees
nal corruption against the Duke of York, though he of connivance, and was ready to contend, that cur-
thought him completely guilty of . connivance. He ruption or deliberate connivance was not the same as
defied any man to lay Us- hand upon his heart and blind connivance or resistel inquiry. This latter
gay, that there was not evidence of this connivance, species of connivance was not equally criminal, but
the course of the • proceedings. 'The testimony it was such as to require the removal of any public of-
isay be as little as they might please entitled to ficer.--(Hear, Hear!) Having stated that to be his
Credit ; but if corroborated by little circumstances opinion of connivance, • how, he would ask, could he
travelling up step by step, there was not a person in -vote for the Resolution acquitting his Royal Highness
the kingdom who would not think it the best evidence, both of personal corruption and connivance, when
upon which a man might be convicted and hanged. there was not a tittle of evidence that could bear him
If the evidence was not to be taken, dien they had out as to the latter. • Those who could pursue a con-
spent the last six weeks in a most foolish way. It teary course might be said in the language of a moral
vas his opinion that they were booed to take the evi- Poet to
dence as it was, and to come to some decision upon it. " Gulp down whole reasons in a lump,
Tbe argument.founded upon an assertion, that the " And come to short conclusions at a jump."
whole proceeding was to be attributed to Jacobins, ,'What would be the situation of the Hoose if they
I was a weak one. Such an argument was calculated, should vote the Resolution of the Right Honourable
to do mischief, by exciting what does, not exist. rt. Gentleman ? Why this—that whilst they had a con-
, was like. " talk of the Devil and luoll appear." It elation of his connivance at abuses, the highest officer
was the duty of that House to proceed against great in the State would still continue in his situation.—
' names, if they should be found to have committed (Near, hear.)—Was it right that his Royal Highness
great wrongs. He was attached to the Throne, and should continue Commander in Chief, whilst it was
loved his sovereign as a Father ; but thought that roved that such practices-had passed before him ?
the best way of supporting the Throne was by calling If the Duke of York ever-reflected at all, which he
those to account, whom the people did not wish to sincerely believed he never had done, he would have
-pull down because they are Princes, but whom - the put a stop to such corrupt practices. He would never
people wished to make act as Princes. Having at. have lent himself to such a case as the recommenda-
tended diligently to all the proceedings, and maturely tion of a Doctor of Divinity from Ireland, or coin-
, weighed all the evidence, the result of the whole was mitted hiniself with respect to General Clavering, or
it-grave and substantial conviction upon his mind, Major Tonyn ; the thing was absolutely impossible.
that his Royal Highness was not guilty of corruption, He agreed with his Right Honourable Friend, that a
though he felt it impossible to acquit his Royal High-. blindness and indisposition to make themselves ac-'
loess of connivance. . quainted with unpleasant truths, Were the charac.
F, -Sir C. BURR ELL mentioned something of an teristics of many men high in office. Therefore,
.Irnplication.against the Accuser in this question by he should not vote for the Resolution. The Right
the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He did not, how.. Hon. Gentleman now asserted, that there were no
ever, mean to vote with the Honourable Baronet. grounds far further proceedings if his Resolution
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex- should bi agreed to ; but if there were no grounds
planted, andentered into a distinction upon the words for further proceeding, what was to become of the
"no grounds" and " there are grounds," as contained necessity the House was under, according to his argu.
in his Resolution, and in the Address of the Honour- ment, to come to a direct decision, aye or no, guilty
able Mover. or not guilty, unless that the House was only to be
Mr SUMNER expressed his intention not to vote allowed to fin,d for the acquittal ' He was aware that
with the Honourable Baronet. He was for separat- the Right, on. Gentleman had frequently changed
ing both the charges, as the matter on which they his votes, not that he, would impute to him the design
were founded was perfectly distinct. He was certain of catching thereby a' fey/ ,more votes, but that it
that his Royal Highness must have connived ; but in had arisen front acCidental fh4n.ges in his opinions. It
this- he did not mean to include a charge of that sor was impossible ter him to vote for the reselutipit, and
did connivance, whic4 consisted in the participation it would be improper for the Bop -
of its fruits. of equivocal or_ambiguousomear
Mr. 'WILBERFORCE requested to know of the potted that they ,should.* 31,,
Honourable Baronet, whether he may not as wellhave openly, and the House, lei
'ppressed his general sense in an amendment to any credit by proving to the
sputdit
subsequent resolution of the Right Honourable Gen- duty, plainly, honestly, and uprii
4.leman opposite ? shut it out from. the House, that
Lord HENRY PETTY thought that it was right lution would preclude them ft
fee those, who felt it necessary to state the reasons which would havetheeffectof sec!
-upon which they voted, to do so before the first divi- the future recurrence of such abu
siono Whatever differences of opinion might exist on Gentleman; no doubt, might sal
other subjects, he was sure there could be in that other head, that of improper int
House but one sentiment of attachment towards the il- a Resolution of Censure might afterwards be brought
lustrious family upon the throne, upon every princi- forward ; but no such thing had been proposed by
pie, -every memory, and every hope of liberty here- the Right . Hon. Gentleman. But if the Right
after in these-realms. It was• with extreme anxiety Hon. Gentleman did not think that his Royal High-
that he dissented from the proposition of the Right ness had been guilty of' corruption or connivance, the
Hon. Gentleman—it was painful to him to be corn- proceeding he proposed was one of the most unjust
;gelled to give a negative, where it would be most description towards his Royal_ Highness. After the
gratifying to him to give his support. It was to ex- House of Commons declared that his Royal High-
plain the grounds upon which he was induced to give ness was not guilty of corruption, of participation,
:his
negative to ale proposition of the Right Honour- of connivance, or of improper influence, the proceed-
able Gentleman that he had risen. The proceeding ing of the Right Honourable Gentleman was to go on
upon the subject under consideration had been repeat- to brand his Royal Highness for a crime
of which
edly described by the Right. Honourable Gentleman that House could have no cognizance, unless it.was
and others, but most ereoneomly, as a judicial pro- connected with some official delinquency.. He had
ceeding. This was an opinion inconsistent with voted for the Amendment of the Honourable Gentle-
Parliamentary usage, and not authorised by the man (Mr. Bankes) on a former night; because this
forms, the practice, or the constitution of Parliament. circumstance had been introduced 'into, it in the only
It was absolutely impossible for that House to resort way in which it ought to be introduced. But he
to any juridical proceeding, or to bring this ques- would never consent that it should be introduced in
tion to a juridical decision. If in the opinion he any other way. With regard to the vote he. should
gave he teas in error, it was the error of the Con- give, he must say, that on the score of corrupiinsii. there
stitution, which had not supplied the House with the was no ground of charge against his Royal lEfigh-
.oame requisites or the same shackles as other Courts ness, but he could not express by his vote that there
of Justice—which had not subjected them to the same had been no connivance, because it had been clearly
,coosequences cif a verdict, that it m ight affect the life or proved that an improper influence had been exercised.
property of a fellow-sebject. He had said thus much Neither should he vote for the Ainendment of the
in or* to bring the House to the consideration of this Honourable Baronet. It was but justice, howeVer,
qifestietowith the same deliberate,cool,and considerate to the illustrious Person who was the object dt the.
attention to the matter submitted to them, as belongsto vote he was to give that night, to state, that from all
aludgeOraJury. But having said this, he would con- the information he had been able to collect, the re.
tend•that his dot" as a Member of Parliament was not gulations made by the Duke of York had been highly
to punish an•individual, but to watch over and guard beneficial to the Army. .The Noble Lord concluded
the public safety. In this view, he contended, that the by declaring, that he should negative the Resolution
object of the proceeding then before the House was not and the Amendment. • •
to punish the Duke of York,but to save and 'protect the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
Public from the consequences of the abuses which the did not think the Noble Lord was well founded in the
Duke of York may have permitted in his department, ironical reproach which he had thrown out against
and which were the subject of inquiry. This was the him, for shaping his resolution in such a manner as'
ground of his negative, because, looking to the whole to catch the greatest number of votes.HNeoe had 'only
of the proceedings, and considering the evidence adopted an alteration in the phrase for the purpose of
which had been laid before them, he could lay histhe Noble. more clearly expressing his ideas. If Lord
y
hand upon his heart and say, that he could not find • really felt hiMself in that painful situation that be had
in that evidence any thing to warrant him in saying mentioned, he would be glad to'find that the grounds
that the Duke of York had not connived at the abuses of his argument had originated entirely fromiirnorisktae
that
into which the House had been inquiring. As to the ) The Noble Lord said,he could find no grounds-
character of the evidence, he agreed with his learned from the evidence to say that the Doke of
Friend (Mr. Burton) that it was loose ; but loose as . not guilty,. The Address, however, did not go the
it was, it was capableofbeing sifted as well as any other ; length of saying that his Royal ghness was not
evidence. That evidence, however, had been so sup- guilty, but merely there was no ground for the
ported, as to entitle it to credit, and he confessed the House to charge him with guilt. The Noble
manner in which it was supported,
appearedtohismind Lord had. said, that when the
gßuesesotliuonti,onwhstaethteecir
greatly to strengthen the whole mass ; because in every that there was no ground, he could not avoid'sup-
instance, where it admitted of being supported by plying a word, and -putting the
documents, it had received that support, and in no there was a 46 sufficient ground ? If the Noble Lord
one instance had it been contradicted by a document. ' would then' so far give hiM Credit as to believe that
--He had listened with. attention to the able and this was really what he meant by the Resolution, it
4Bingenious defence, which had beep made by the Right would spare his Lordship the pain of voting against
ononrable..Gentletian (the Chancellor of the Ex- it. He hoped that, if the word o sufficient" were sup-
ochequer) ;
sand the parts, which appeared so ingeni- plied, the Noble Lord would vote in favour of the
7ooi in themselves, when taken together, were contra- Resolution.. As to the word " charge," however, be •
liettity to each other: When the Right Honourable • would remind the Noble Lord that when the Word
entlerpan oommented on the note respecting. Major was mentioned, the whole beach upon Ivhich he
.anck 00111 aßinst °IC "041"tir-a I°lo* P.9l3toat: Thy 41to said that *owns
u• '•`" • .• - • • •
- •;

/
rriuttohserve how danger: nu Mr. ELLISON, al
ral distinction, such an unt House, felt himself 1
the degrees of moral turpo, de 'fruit* ; but. he 1t
:rests of the community..-. 6 form,atufhe shoulden(
personal corruption a much He was sorry to differ
'ems offence than that spe7 not agree upon this ocl
amounted only to a dissem. duty to perform, and

Conse to vote any words
cuing.. The public ex-
qteir duty fairly and
; sure„ would do itself
is thakit perfoTrned its
)rightlit He coukl.not
at to vetiifor (he 'reso-
frqm, Any proceeding
curing the public from
)uses.-r6 Right fion.
say, thqt there was an.
influence, ender which