Star.
London, England, 1831-10-04 00:00:00

TUESDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 4, 1831.

served that be would entreat their lordships to the bill
for tbe sake of the character of the house, which war a sub-
ject of gust importance.
Lord ABERCROMBIE, in presenting several petitions
In favour of reform, said the people had discovered that there
was in the bill now before the hoarse that constitutional re-
form which they so much desired. (Hear.) They ware now
at the commencement of one of the most important discus-
sions that ever had come before the haus, and be entreated
noble lords to pause end deeply to consider the subject before
they voted against it.
The Marquis of HASTINGS promoted several petitions
in favour of reform.
The Duke of SUSSEX promoted a petition from the
merchants, bankers, and other inhabitants of the city of
Bristol and its vicinity, to the number of 1111.743 psroous, I
in favour of the Reform 818. His Royal H man stated
that the whole ethos signatures were so the peti-
deo baba than spas et lbw
ran ears had alined it, sot bad -say mama boo isiorted
twits wee.

Tb. Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he hadvoesived
• loser, stating Manses:al of the *matures to the above
petition were iletirious.
The Duke of SUSSEX mid he had received the petition
from two lidemben of Paribmont, and be believed it to be
11111014 impoluldo. It was dried by 25,743
indlridn•M
Tin ilinswitwo Doke also repented petitions from Denbigh,
the Ward .1 Chimp, in die City of Lendoo, the Ward of 11
Fallopian Mids, Hammersmith, Ludlow. Permanee.l
and various oilier limes. His Royal Highness observed
that all the midair were to the same purpose. They
earnestly prayed their lordships to peas the Bill before the
House.

The Eatl of ELDON said, he had-respect for the peti.
dons of the people, but he thought the house should do its
duty without regarding these petitions. The noble earl pre.
seated petitions from Bridgewater, and the city of Norwich,
against thereforni bill. The city of Norwich petition bad
been represented to him as being signed by 3,800.
The Earl of A LBR3IARLE thought there must be some
mistake in the numbers of the petition just presented by the
noble and learned lord, as he bad a petition to present from
the inhabitants of Norwich, in favour of reform, signed by
11,800.

The LORD CHANCELLOR appeared with a mass of
petitions. The first was from Halifsx, signed by 12,600 of
industrious and reppeemble persona. They prayed their
lordships to pass the reform bill without delay. The noble
and learned lord then prevented eighty petitions, all to the
same effect.

Earl OREY presented the petition of the Merchants,
Bankers, and traders of the City of London, signed by
14,700 persons, at a most respectable meeting, convened at:
the Egyptian Hall. In the petition could be found some
of the most respectable names in the City of London.—
They all expressed a sincere desire to have the bill on their
Lordships' table pees into s law. The Noble Earl bad a
large mass of petitions to present, and like his Noble and
Learned Friend was under the necessity of stating the cha-
racter of each, without going into a more ample description.
They were so numerous—the spontaneous Anshan of the
country—that be could not bet consider those -petitions a
strong indication of the prevalence of public feeling in favour
of the bill • fur reform in Parliament. A Noble Karl who
bad presented two petitions had said, petitions should not,
deter the Noble Lord, from doing their duty. GOD forbid
they should ; but at the same time he could not admit that
the petition. of the people were not to have thole due weight.
(Hear.) The Noble Earl concluded by reading ibe masses
otitis petition's, which owe kid on the table.
The hour of six having arrived, a lead ay wombed for
the *Wet of the day.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE ramie make* prelhni -
tasty reaterk. He thought that House should not run the
risk of a division upon the Reform question before all the
petitions of the people bad been received. •
The Duke of BUCKINONAM proposed that the house
meet to-morrow at ten in the morning to receive petitions. •
The LORD CH ANCRIA4OII thought that anangement
would interfere with appeals.
Lord KENYON proposed that she Moue meet at three
o'clock, and proceed whit reddens andl all were presented.
. Earl (JURY suggested fear o'clock, as the time most
convenient for all their Leedebips, and tbat tour was gxed
by apeman for the time of meeting to.mmeow.

also be fully in their re:teethes/ace tlst there was a ge.
neral desire for Parliamenteey reform. The question,
which had long slept, but which had been agi'ated more
or less for the last eight years. became more than ever
the subject of conversation ; so general, indeed, was the
opinion en's:lighted upon this subject, that, upon his sr. si
rival in town st that period, be found many persona we .1
previously particularly zealous or active in the cause of re. '
form, convinced tkat the question was one which must be
looked at with a view to Its serious consideration. That he
had not now taken up this question for the first time would
be easily proved, if their lordships did him the honour to
recollect what he stated oe the Ant day of the session with
reference to the state of the country at that time, ,is. that re-
form was absolutely essential to the well.belog of die country,
as without that there was no hope of ribig the people
to the Government. The dismay. that waif* when the -De-
bits deka appeal's-Ahem at the bead of the adisehiletestien-.
his bmilbrow,eB :doge
by tbetiskradoo coultheetee pessalteMplellw.
nos ohm's beams. it Ills missitbn is Oat was
webs the of the nubile tithe's pronauseet, end
dl the confusion thee has seemed. The meserser which
be (Lord Grey) peeps's& when he had net the meet die ant
Ws of being plead in the situation whkh he 'hod now the
beeser to hU, was that which he. felt to he essential to the
LINPty of the country; and when his Majesty honoured
virVh his commands to hem no administration, he found
hs could form it on no other mime' principle than that of
Reform- Had it not been so there was no reason whatever
why the Noble Duke and his colleagues should have gone
set of office. lie was, therefore, compelled to' form an
Administration on principles congenial to the genera;
wish, and Reform being the basis of it, no time was
lost in preparing the measure the result f which stood
fee this night's deliberation. He was not charge?
'dig; emeskre, with rashness or any desire of Moon-
dem He had every reason for believing that the -mew.
sum could no longer be delayed with safety; and U' it re-
wired the sanction of that Howe, be was satiafied that it
would produce peace and reconciliation. He believed, that
before the late Ministers quitted office the colleagues of the
Noble Duke were satisfied that the Measured Reform must
be looked at with a view to the settlement of the question.
He hoped he should be able to prove that there wee nothing
iha the measure which was not perfectly consistent with the
'mien' practices of the Constitution, the general security,
and even with the support and security of that order to
which their Lordships belonged.—(Hear.) The question
dm was, what should be done, as it was universally admit-
ted tlsit some measure was necessary, whether they should
bring in something under the name of Reform, which was
merely a nominal Reform, or whether it should be an effec-
tl/e measure, end such as should give contentment to the
people. -( Hear.) Some persons seemed to be of opinion
that a measure *tumid be brought in which should hold out
the word of promise to the ear, but break it to the hope. Any
such measure, however, in his (the Noble Rut's) opinion,
would have had • most dangerous effect. He thought that
the only proper course was to adopt a measure like the pre-
sent ; and, idler due musideration, he and his colleagues had
thought proper to adopt the present plan. He was at first.
satisfied that it would be useless to beteg in any measure of
'dorm which should leave mooched the great grievance of
rotten boroughs. (Hear.) It had long been matter of
complaint among.te people of Ragland that seats should
be dhipoied of by antin Individuals for their own exclu.,
site benefit, and that they Amid have the power of openly
selling seats. ( Hear.) Bests had been made of seats 'in the
epee day—ewer, biota...end when the people looked upon
them things, they felt so stesogly the necessity of reform,
that the 'knees bringing forward some ouch impositions
could no longer be The question then arose what
borough ought to be disfranchised t and another task was
to see if they could confer the right of representation to
other boroughs. There was, he thought, en inconsistency
in allowing places, the remains of ancient boroughs
without consetuenclee to he represented. They concluded
that the right of sending members to vermin such
places ought to is tikes away; therefore they were to be
disfranchised, and put in schedule A. They came to a
detteminetion to sheikh the whole of than bsroughu. The
Noble Lad wet on to particelorke sem of the thieves
mode in the remoseutation of the difereat boroughs as con.
wised in the Reform bill, wad rehreod to these which were
wholly or parthdly disfranchised bet; the intestion of the
bill being. es he said,, to hp the useless breaches
of the system. and restore health sod viper to the week.
He would endeavour to prove to the House that the Ana.
sore le reposed did not hovel* the least danger to the
established inetkotioes of the onesury, and that it did net
em whey interfere with the sight of voting. The Noble
Red 411ou refereed to the fact *stow far se he was mote,
not a singe pedden of all them whisk had been pre.
prayed for the edge's of me by bullet, to
, perhaps, plausible ob*thoes weight he made,
and the meager. woo diees the mire billy se
be palatable so theme who had essennsmly opposed that
'ityssen of voting. The noble earl peewees& to stale, that si
the details of fist part of the Bill erlikk mimed to die NL
householders were already before the_ pine, it *odd be
unnecessary to go into then. The DUI providod that us
person who had a vote in the ass, sad =isi tem
could
vote twice for the mane; sue poems
rote, In towns would rentals tossisit inept viluilloy
lived at a themes mending SHOO saw groin der tbek
election, by which great inoosnonlotro end exposit
be avoided, It was she podded that In order bo pleb
vent any fictitious veto, tito poor rates and eat sms‘
both be paid up, and the tenant must have had yousdia
for twelve months previously. The Noble Yen
given • /general outline tfashinhin of Rohm
by the Bill. preyed their anieutty 3110
whether limes liable to any if Aijoeiluisl4ll6 :hid
been made to it. The present sock of reprotesisties %se,
totally inconsistent with the patron for which it wee.
first framed. It was contended that the theory and print'.
pies laid down was one thing and that the ptactice was atom
titer ; and that in the them it should be seesidered se •
full, a fete. and a free representation of the rep oI but es
the practice now was, it was totally the retiree. Be It was
'either full, free, • nor fair.—Woofid any eche*
contend, that while this gangrene was sating Mat:he=
of the Constitution, when such min at Pitt, and Per, and
ammo, had modeavouved to being about a similar measure,
that they ever deism foe oar moment that their exertions
were tending to the e'er/throw of all the existing Mei.
tutions of the country.—(Cheer.) Did their Lordships not
recollect that it was a standing order of the brow that it
was illegal foe any Peer to meddle with or toilsome elec-
tions ? With such an older as that staring them in the
face, could any of them be found sufficiently hardy to de.
Clare that he had a right to sell wets- It was said by some
that this measure was spoliation and robbery. (Hear, hear,
from tire opposite benches) He thought, he understood
from that cheer that there was a Noble Lord who thought
he had that right ; he thought, however, that tie could
co:trims that Noble Lord that a seat w.• • mot, anti
not a property, and where a trust was &burned the indi..
'ideate who reposed the trust had • right to feral eiti.t
trust, and place it in fitter hands. No length ett
thro—no prescription whatever-.no countenance Whatever
of abuse, of ever so long continuance, could, by any
convert what was otiginely a trust into a thing
of Ironer'''. He had stated dow in former times writs or
returning members bad been dbcontinued when boroughs
fell into decay ; no less than Testy-four boroughs end one
musty which helm:fly sent members to Parliament were now
deprived of that privilege by the ordinary practice uf the
Constitution. Rut ON thwoninhing, be would mk, in the'
recent times, pursuing the some line of 'Ammer*, to whew
that spulietiou and robbery had not been practised by the
prevent legisimure ? Look to the union with Soothed,
yeah Wessell* about a disfranchiermese of nineteen be.
.roughs. Look also to the. union with lowland ; not Feast
Wm IQO Wiesuglts, returning bee citenthem to pitilatient.
was 'erred in • irke mealier. Bet then, in awe,/ to that.
;we tumor WA, three wit is the roe of behest .
compensation allowed ; compensation implitd indemnity. H.