Star.
London, England, 1822-02-19 00:00:00

SURREY MEETING.

A Meeting of the Freeholders of the County of
Surrey was, pursuant to a
.Requisition to the High
Sheriff, held yesterday at Epsom, to take the sense
of the County upon the propriety of petitioning Par-
liament for a redaction of Taxation, and a Reform
in the Representation of the People in the Commons
House. Several waggons were placed in the centre
of the open space in front of the Spread Eagle Tavern,
and upwards of 1,000 persons were present.
The litcra SHERIFF opened the business of the
Meeting, by hoping for their support, in ensuring for
every Gentleman who should think proper to address
them, a patient hearing. That was the surest way
of giving effect to their opinions, both to Parliament
and the Country.
Mr. LEECH, in coming forward to propose a Peti-
tion to Parliament, expressed his belief, that every
occupier of land, and, indeed, every inhabitant of
the country, felt that the general distress which op-
pressed so large a proportion of the community was
occasioned by immense taxation—(Heer, hear).—
Unless that amount of taxation was reduced, the con-
dition of the People could not in any material degree
be ameliorated. A great deal had been said of the
reductions made by landlords to their tenants. He
ho2ed that this reduction would be made to cor-
respond with the scale of 17r92; for unless to the
rents of that period the reduction was made, the far-
mers would be immense losers by their tenures, under
the pressure of rents and tales. There was no hope,
unless a reduction of taxation diminished the price
of the growth of the produce of the soil—a reduction
which he feared there was no hope of obtaining from
the decision of Ministers without a Reform in Parlia-
ment. From the year 1787 to 1793 inclusive, the
average price of corn was £l3. I s. per load, and of
barley 265. sd. per qnarter. A carter then earned
Bs. a week, a day labourer ls. 2d. a day, with an al-
lowance of beer equal to 2d. a day more. The price
of threshing wheat was then 2s. 6d. and of barley
ls. 4d. per quarter.—EA person in the crowd asked
what was the amount of tythes at that period ?J—He
did not recollect the amount of tythes; but he ap-
prehended that the owners of tythes, like the
owners of land, would reduce their claims to the
standard of the year 1792. They had within the
last few days heard Lord Londonderry's, or Lord
Castlereagh's, for he could hardly forget the old
name—(Laughter)—plan to relieve the country.—
After that plan, perhaps, the Meeting had no further
occasion to discuss that, for the consideration of which
they had been previously called—(Laughter).—Were
they perfectly satisfied with the extraordinary sum of
money which the Noble Lord meant to apply to their
relief—the shilling a bushel upon Malt ? becat►se, if
so, they had no further occasion to talk over the mat-
ter—(Laughter, and cries of " No !").—The Noble
Lord had admitted that their distress was great; but
thought this relief must necessarily make them happy
and comfortable. 'Tea he was to lend the Agricul-
tural Interest £4,000,000 of money : this was to be
done by the way of loan ; but then, said the Noble
Lord consolingly enough, " there appeared so many
difficulties in the way of securing the necessary re-
payment, that he was not sure whether the plan could
in that part be practically executed." It was pretty.
clear, therefore, the.), wonld hear little more of the
loan or £4,ooo,ooo—(Hear, hear).—The only means
of redress, which the County had to look to, was
by a Reform in the House of Commons, and by so
constituting Parliament as to make it the organ► of
the wishes and feelings of the People. The worthy
Gentleman, after some other observations, concluded
by proposing the following Petition :
" TO TIM HONOURABLE TUC costumes or THE UNITED KINGDOM Or
GREAT 2111TAIN AFD IRELAND IN PARLIAMENT AUSAIRLILD:

The Petition of the Owners and Occupiers of Land in
the County of Surrey, assembled us County Meeting,
this 18th day of February, 1822,
'1 Most humbly sheweth—That the greatest embarrassment
and distress pervade the whole of that numesous class of his Ma-
jtoy's subjects whose property consists of land, or of stock, or
materials or goods connected with the laud, or who are in any

•
wise depasilast far their well-being on the prosperity of Agri-
culture ; that the Partner has no looser the means to pay for
,1 the labour necessary to due cuitivatiou ; that the able labourers
`front insuadmeo of wages, is compelled to become a pauper;
and, under that degrading name, audio that state of uselessness,
has to he maintained by money drawn from the Farmer, though
the latter is unable to employ him for their mutual benefit.
Your Petitioners pretend sot to ester Into theoresiepi in-
quiries as to the causes which have led to this state of things,
but sorrowful experience enables them distinctly to state the
practical result to be this:—that the wages of labour, the twee,
the mere sustenance of the farmer's family, and the bare interest
of his capital, now demand nearly the whole of the grew amount
of his produce, leaving nothing for profit, and little or nothing
for rent; and this result does, too, appear perfectly natural to
your Petitioners, when they consider, that the price of their
produce, taking one article with anoth.tr, is tow lower then it
was in 1790, while the taxes, including the millions paid for the
collection, are now mare than three times as great in amount as
they were in that year.
" Your Petitioners, who trust that they are insusceptible of
groundless alarm, and who hope that your Honourable House
will not think them capable of deliberate exaggeration, assure
your Honourable House, that they think there must be, on an
average of years, a still further decline is the price of the pro-
duce of the land; that they can see many reasons for, and none
against this opinion; and, if a further decline should take place
with thg.polesit taxes remaining, your Petitioners can have no
sere* to seats, that it will be hupossible foe the main body of
the farmers to pay any rent at all; thus leaving merely the
name of landlords to the owners of the land, who will then
have been, by the hand of unsparing taxation, virtually despoiled
of their estates.

" Your Petitioners forbear to describe their feelings at bear-
ing their distresses, at the end of seven years and ten months
duration, attributed,: by some, to a sudden transition from war
to peace ; and at hearing those distresses ascribed, by others, to
superabundant crops ; while, by the same persona, a super-
abundant population is at other times alleged to be the cause;
and while ~n that bare allegation, large sums raised on your Pe-
titioners in taxes, are expended to convey beyond the seas a part
of these superabundant consumers of your Petititmers' super-
abubdant crops! Your Petitioners, turning from these notions
to that plain common sense, and that daily experience, which
tell them, that a very large proportion of aU that the farmer pays
in the shape of wages and rates, for implements of husbandry,
and for articles consumed in his family, is required by the seve-
ral parties to pay the taxes on things of indispensable consump-
tion, can be at no loss to discover, that excessive taxation is the
immediate cause of all their embarrassment and distress; and
they, therefore, pray generally, that your llonourab!e House
will, with a degree of speed proportioned to the pressing txes-
shy of the case, be pleased to make a very great abatement in
the amount of that taxation ; and, particularly, that you will re-
peal the taxes on malt, salt, soap, candles, and leather.
" But while your humble Petitioners well know this to be
the only immediate remedy for the intolerable evils that oppress
them, they cannot disguise front themselves that these evils
would never have been known, if the Representation of the
People in your Honourable House had been consonant with the
long-settled Laws and Constitution of their cout try ; nor will
they disguise from your Honourable House that they have no
hope of effectual present relief, or of security against future
oppression, but in an efficient Reform in that Representation.
" Your Petitioners, without dwelling in detail on the innu-
merable instances of wasteful expenditure sanctioned by Patlia-
ment, in the civil and military departments, cannot but know,
that to the want of such Reform they owe the burden of esta-
blishments wholly unnecessary, and of an annual expenditure
surpassing, in a season of profound peace, that of former seasons
of actual and widely extended war. Well knowing these
things, and anxious, not less for the safety of the Throne than
for that of their own properties, liberties, and lives, the County
of Surrey, while they humbly implore your Honourable house
to make a Constitutional Reform, so absolutely necessary to se-
cure the benefit of real representation, and a vigilant controul
over the public money, declare, in the face of all England, that
they will never, till that all-important object shall have been
accomplished, cease to use all the lawful means in their power
for the obtaining of such Reform."
Mr. Haas Townsurmi was convinced, that without a Reform.
in Parliament, there was no security for life, liberty, or property ;
he would therefore second the Petition.

Lord Kw° came forward amidst loud acclamations. They
were met for the purpose of considering two objects—Agricul-
tural Distress and Parliamentary Reform; and he should trouble
them very shortly upon the first question, as he considered the
other by far the most important. They all knew that iistress
was occasioned by excessive taxation, the fruits of a war, during
which the influence of the Crown had become so great as to be
almost irresistible. It had even done worse—it had taken away
that common sympathy which ought to subsist between the Re-
presentatives and the Constituent Body. Ile now came to the
next question, and the Meeting would allow him to state a few
circumstances which contributed to make the Parliament what
it was. Ile believed the first blow was the introduction of forty-
five Scotch Members—men who were ptoperly called " the
Swiss of the State"—men who receive the patronage of Scotland
in return for their services in the House of Commons. lie
would state to the Meeting a circumstance which shewed in
what light these Members bad been formerly viewed. Very
shortly after the Union, the Secretary of State, having been
asked why a certain measure had failed in the House of
Commons? replied, " The waters were out—the Scotch Mem-
bers did not arrive !"--This shewed the dependence which
• .

that Minister placed upon men who, to say the truth, hid
never since deceived any Minister--(clear, hear, hear).—
Within the last century a new trade had sprung up, he meant
the sale of seats, which increased the influence of the Crown—
which awed and was awed in turn by those men—or, to use
Mr. Grattan's expression, those " Proprietors of Parliament"—
(Ilear, hear).—lndeed, they did treat Parliament as their pro-
perty, and if reports be true, they made very hard bargains with
their customers. Ile would mention one report, to shew the
• opinion which these men held of.the persons nominally sending
Representatives to that House. A Petition having been pre-
sented, complaining of an undue return for the Borough of
Whitehaven, Sir J. Lowther said, he wished to see the names
signed to the Petition; and on seeing some of which, exclaimed,
" The town is mine, I will turn them out—the ground which
produces their food is mine—the air they breathe is mine-1 can
drain their wells and choke them with thirst—their fire is mine,
for I possess all the coal-mines in the neighbourhood."—llere
was a man that made out his claim to the four elements—

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air, earth, fire, and water; and it Was not difficult to say in
what estimation he held the beings who subsisted by them.--
This man, it was said, sent orders to three of his Members to
vote one way—and to three others to vote another—and this
when he was coquetting with a Blue Ribbon, which had been
since bestowed upon his family. Fifty years had elapsed since
Lord Chatham had given his opinion upon the subject of Re-
form, and nothing had since occurred which rendered it the
less necessary. The Irish Union had not rendered it unneces-
sary. The greater part of the Irish Members were indifferent
to every thing which concerned England or Scotland—the cor-
rupt part of the English Members were indifferent as to what
concerned England, Ireland, or Scotland; and the Scotch
Members of every thing but what affected themselves, and
their services were entirely directed to that point—( I kat, hear !)
The nation was now arrived at that pitch, that it had a pe-
titioning people and a confiding Parliament. It was this di-
vision of spoil among the Members of the Muse of Commons
that made them support taxation, and which made that /louse,
nut the admiration of surrounding nations, but of surrounding
Sovereigns, who regretted their nut having so pliable an engine.
It had been said that all classes, commercial, manufacturing,
and agricultural, had a virtual if nut a real representation.—
Ile supposed he was addressing a body of farmers, who were in
the habit of selling their corn by sample. He would ask them
what would be thought df them, if they were to take a sample
different from the corn which they had for sale, and sell by that?
Would the buyt r be satisfied by their saying that it was a virtual
it nut a real sample? Frollowboi up this simile, he would say

there were is Parliament samples of contractors, of lolairers.
and of -trading politician% but there. was one sample which was
...are!), to hornartAmilk dare—a sample of an honest man--(Hein )
—The plan of the /darquis of Lendonderry was absurd, anu
indeed the Noble Marquis himself adngtted it. The loan which
be proposed ought, if any good were to be expected from *loan,
never to bereturned. The Noble Marquis slid, en this occa-
sion, turn his back upon himself. On this occasion a consider-
able altered= bad taken place in the tactics of that leader. On
former occasions his language was, " Let us come to issue, we
',intake the liaise of the House :" but his language during the
last week was, " tet us take time to consider, don't agree to
the proposition of the lion. Gentleman opposite, wait until you
hear mine !" and then he only moved for papers, instead of
taking, as usual, the'sense of the House. If it were the deter-
initiation of the tax-master to reduce as little as possible, it was
the duty of the tax-payer to compel him to reduce as much as
possible. Ile should not be surprised if some people were to ask
what good could be derived from a Reform in Parliament
Ile would say to them—" You will gain everything---you will
preserve what is left—this Is the time to make a start for your
property, and the best way to secure that, is to restore that Con-
stitution which has been Impaired during the lag war." It was
the pride of the British Constitution that it possessed the power
of renovating itself. The Constitution was very sick at that
moment, and be would wish them to bring that power which It
possessed :o the test. Let us (continued•the Noble Lord), in the
language of this Petition say, that we never will desist until that
object shall have been acesmplished—(Cheers).
Lord Pi.i.zinsottotion admitted that great distress prevailed
amongst the agricultural classes, but be 41d not think that a re-
duction in the taxes would allurd relief. Whatever might bss
his impression with respect to Reform, he did not wish to mix
it up with the more pressing question of their distress; it was
admitted on all hands, that any relief to be eir-ctive must be
immediate, but Parli.unentary Reform could not be immediate,
and therefore was the best, nor indeed any remedy. But
if Reform could be brought about, were the Gentlemen who
advocated that principle, sure that the Members of a Reformed
Parliament might nut deceive them as well as others? They had
been told that the great distresses of the country had been caused
by the late war—to the corruption of Parliament, and taxation,
as the consequence of that corruption ; but they should recol-
lect that in America, where there was au rival representation
—whete there existed the cheapest possible Guvernment, yet,
in that country, distress had been more severe and more op-
pressive than it had CM been in this country. The Noble Lord
then said, that if the Meeting coupled the question of Reform
with the question of Agricultural I)istress, they would postpone
that relief which was so necessary and so much desired. If
they were dissatisfied with Nlinisteis, let them petition for their
change ; if they were dissatisfied with their Members, let them
change them ; but he entreated them not to tear down the sacred
fabric of the Constitution. The Noble Lord concluded by pro-
posing, by way of amendment, the following Petition to the
House of Commons :

" your Petitioners are, and long have been, in a stale of
unexampled digress, immedim iy arising from the low price of
agricultural produce, and the great expenses of cultivation.
" That your Petitioners earnestly desire your Honourable
House to adopt measures fur their certain, effectual, and imme-
diate relief. •

"6 That in the opinion of your Petitioners, such c;:rtain, effec- •
tual, and immediate relief, will not be derived from any of the
measures hitherto propo,ed Ly the King's Ministers.
" That your Petitioners implore y6ur Honourable House to
enforce every retrenchment in the public expenditure, and every
reduction ct taxes which can be made consistently with good
faith, with the efficiency of out necessary establishments, and
with the general prosperity of the Stare.
" That your Petitioners hope, that the Members of your Bo
nourable House Neil oh this occasion, by their Sympathy with the
people, and the wisdom of their measures, prove themselves to.
be the real and worthy Representatives of the Nation, and not
afford your Petitioners cause to desire any change in the ancient
constitution of the [louse of Commons."

Colonel CAtasi.w. declared his approbation of the amended
Petition.

Mr. Dextsox came forward, and was received with the loud-
est cheers. lle strongly incalcated the necessity of a Reform is •
Parliament. He had that day fortnight delivered his opinion as
to the causesof the public distress—he had said that it was
caused by a. heavy taxation, the consequence of a profuse expen-
diture ;—and that taxation was greatly caused by the stoppage of
cash payments by the Bank in 1797—and greatly exasperated by
the too rapid operation of Mr. Peel's Bill. Since the Meeting they
had heard the plan of Lord Londonderry—he had heard it with
attention; but if his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr.
Brougham) could not comprehend it, surely he might be ex-
cused for his inability to understand it. The Honourable Gen-
tleman next proceeded to argue at considerable length in support
of the original Petition ; but we regret that the want of spare
prevents us from giving even an entire outline of his able speech.
Mr. TROWEIL expressed his regret that the two important
questions of Parliamentary Reform and Agricultural Distress
had.been mixed tip together.
The Hon. Guar BENNET said, the cry for a reduction of
taxation bad come up to both Houses of Parliament from all
parts of the nation. Two propositions bad already been made
to give effect to that cry; and what had been the result? That
there were 100 Members in favour of, and 200 and odd in direct
opposition to them. If the People of England had been fa;rly
represented such an event could never have occurred ; fer, in
that case the Noes would have been where the Ayes were—in
the minority. The lion. Gentleman then reminded the Meeting
that the (louse of Commons had determined that a reduction of
taxation should not take place, and that Mr. Ilolme Sumner had
formed one of the majority that had come to that •ieterntiaation.
Though Mr. H. Sunnier had given that vote, he trusted that he
would, if they instructed him to die su, be found voting against
all the expeusive Estimates of the Army, Navy, Ordnance, and .
Miscellaneous Establishments, amounting to X19,6e0,000, and
lending his aid to reduce them to A:14,100,0b0. lie likewise
meotioned that Mr. Creevey intended to move, in. a short time,
for the repeal of the Pension Act—an Act which was the greatest
act of pillage with which a poor country had ever been cursed.
The lion. Gentleman concluded a very animated speech, by
stating that plenty was not the curse under which the country
was labouring, but the heavy taxes which hiai been entailsid upon
it by a long-continued system of profusion and extravagance.
Mr. 1101.11 E SUMNRN. was of opinion, that very little relief
could be afforded by a reduction of taxation, though he admitted
that the estimates ought to be reduced as low as was consistent
' with the safety of the country. As to the question of Reform,
he thought the Meeting ought to know oat reforni was meant,
' and how it was to be elected. Ile coocluded by saying, that
' he would neither vote for the original nor the amended Petition.
Mr. TAUNTON, Mr. MANIRLT, and Mr. COLIMA; afterwards
, addrissed the Meeting ; when
Mr. Liven, who bad moved the original Petition, made a
short reply to the various arguments wnich had been urged
against it.
The limn Sower put the question, that the amended Pe-
tition du pass. No more than five hands were held up in sup-
, port of it. On his putting the negative, the majority in favoi,e
of negativing the Amendment was immense.
The original Petition was then put, and carried without a Xs.
sentient voice.
• I Mr. Wessou moved that the Petition should be presented to
Parliantesit by the two County Members.
This proposition was negatived, and the Pearl°, was ordered
• to be presented to Parliament by Mr. Denison only.
Mr. Don :Us shortly returned thanks fur the confidence which
•I they had just placed in him.
• (hi the motion of Lord KING, tbe Thar*. of the Meeting were
launbtliei impartial rptriaellecitintidAuiceet lannteh.e
k• gitleinr:oantdhefolrlihgt Shwieliii iutigtutirsghitsoaabilsee
The Thou Samar declared himself lushly gratified by their
approbation of his conduct, and proud of the Vow of limas
which they had just given him.
,
I rho Meeting that dissolved itself about to minutes past six,
' 1 huh% coodusic4 sort than Arc hours in numbers.
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