Star.
London, England, 1806-04-17 00:00:00

INDIA

Mr. FRANCIS, purfuant to his notice on a for.
mer day, role to bring forward his motion for the
produaion of papers refpeaing the debts of the Na-
bob of Arcot. But, before he proceeded to intro•
duce his motion, he begged leave to put a querlicn
to the Hon. Gentleman, now in his place (Mr. Hob-
houfe), who had brought forward the Bill now pen-
ding, in relation to the claims of loch debts. It %. as
Rated by that Bill, that certain Commiffioners were
appointed to inquire refpeting thole debts, and to
report their opintons thereon. The quellion he walled
then to afk cf the Hon. Gentleman was, who thole
Commiffioners were ; by what authority they were
appointed I and by whom they were to be paid ? He
underftood the Hon. Gentleman himfelf to be one
of them, and that it was not a duty he voluntarily
aimed, but one which he had been induced by
importunity to accept. Who the others were he was
yet to learn, as well as the authority under which they
sited.

Mr. HOBHOUSE Paid, it war his defire that the
Hon. Gentleman lhould be moft fully and fatisfaao•
rily informed upon this fubjea. The Hon. Gentle
man had not been prefent, when he had firft Rated
his propofition, and moved for leave to bring in the
Bill, or his prefent queftion would not have been
neceffary. The Commillioners, he Paid, confifted of
three perfons , namely, he (Mr. Hobhonfe), a Mr.
Homer, who was nominated in confequence of
another Gentleman, Mr. Ryder, having withdrawn
himfelf from the Commiffion,and Mr.(Cockbum—the
former of thole laft two was a Gentleman converfant
is the law and the latter, an old fervant of the In-
dia Company, and much experienced in India affairs.
With refpea to the authority for their appointment,
it was made by the Direaors of the Eaft India Com-
pany, at the inftance of the Creditors. With regard
to their remuneration; it was intended to be according
to the habits of Parliamentary Commilfioners, namely
of quantum rwrWs, when the Winds fhould be gone
through. Hoping that this anfwer to the Honourable
Gentleman's queftions would prove fatisfaaory, he
had only to allure him, that if the papers for which
he intended to move, were of the nature which he
was taught to underftand, his motion lhould meet,
on his part, no refiftance.
Mr. FRANCIS thanked the Honourable Gentle.
man for the very candid and fatisfaltory anfwer be
had been pleated to give to Iris queftion. He had
underftond, that a Mr. Fordyce was at the head of
thofe Commitfioners but he found now, that he
ailed at the inftance of the Creditors, and was to have
five per cent. allowed him on the turn of the claims
to be awarded. But with refpea to the fubjea itfelf,
he thought it was urged forward with much more,
precipitancy than it ought; for the Report upon
which the Honourable Member's Bill was founded,
was not printed in time to be delivered to Members
before laft Monday, the very day on which the
Honourable Member introduced his Bill, and before
which introduaion he was confident not five Mem-
bers in the Houfe had read the Report. Such pre-
cipitancy he thought umifual and indecorous, upon
a fubjea of much greater interett than the Houle
was aware, of claims to an enormous extent upon the
India Company, which if they fhould ultimately be
unable to pay, muff one day or other come home to
that Hoare as a claim upon the purfe of the nation.
One faa the Hoare did know, and this upon the au.
thority of Lord Cornwallis, that all the Prefiden
ties of the Company in India were diftrelFed and em.
barraffed to loch a degree, that they were obliged to
borrow money any where, and at any rate of intereft,
in order to carry on the bufinefs of their refpeftive
Governments. In what he 'had to fay upon this
occalion, he begged leave to deprecate every idea
that it had any concern with the affairs of Lord
WeUelley. It was a mere money concern, and
one which it behoved the Houle maturely and
minutely to confider. He was lorry that there were
not more of his Majefty's Minifters prefent at the
difcuffion of the guidon ; and fill more forty that
the few who were prefent, would not attend to him.
[Mr. Windham was converting with a Member be-
hind him]. But he could allure them it was a tub.
jea which would, 'ere long, force its way to attention;
and fo far as he felt it hos duty as a Member of that
Houle to prefs forward the fubjea of India Affairs,
on behalf of the public,he would not be deterred from
that duty either by inattention or defertion. Was
the Houle, he would idle, aware of tne amount of
thole debts claimed by the demandants againit the
Nabob of Arcot ?—Was the Houle furprifed that it
was no lets a fum than five or fix millions (telling ?
This fum was charged upon the Revenues of the
Carnatie, and, if not paid there, it mutt be paid here.
Many Gentlemen who now heard him, mull remem-
ber at leaft the name of this Nabob, and the difeuf-
lions which took place refpeaing his debts Co far back
as 1784. Upon this fubjea, he would beg leave rut
refer Gentlemen to the fiatements of a former Hon.
Member of that Houfe, now no more, but whole
authority upon this fubjea would live for ever ; he
alluded to the late Mr. Burke, and the ever-memora-
ble (patch which he made upon the fubjeft in 1784;
to that fpeech he would refer Gentlemen, not only
a document of authenticity, but as a fpecimen of
eloquence unparalleled by any thing which remained
to us of the pthduaions of antiquity. In this fpeech,
fuch circumftanees were fated by Mr. Burke, as
furnifhed a body of evidence, not only that fuck
enormous (urns of money had been diftributed by
that Nabob to the Company's fervent., as exhaufted
all his treafures and revenues, even to infolvency ;
but that acknowledgment were extorted from him,
that he was indebted to them in larger fums alto;
which monies advanced, and debts acknowledged,
there was die Orongelt grounds to fuppofe were not
in confederation of any debt, kniiidt due by him fur
any motley advanced, or fervices rendered by them.
Surely, then, it was the duty of Parliament to invef-
tigaie claims of a nature that fo ftrongly challenged
enquiry ; for upon that oecafion it was proved, not
only that ten millions had been advanced by the Na.
bob to the Company's fervent; but that he was in•
diced to acknowledge a further debt of three or four
millions more to them. He fincerely wilhed, that
Gentlemen, before they came to the difeuflion of the
lubjeft, which lioof for Wedoefday next, would, not

reef e.ariersife the fpeech of Mr. Burke in the
interim $ and wltieb, he was confident, they would
read with delight, and feel with the Rrongeft con-
vidion. The foie nbjed of his motion this night
was to bring fairly before the Houle the full amount
of the claims againft the Nabob of Arcot, that tha
Houfe might at once fee the extent to which it was
called to pledge its fandion ; left, by only confi-
dering and aging upon a (mall portion at once, it
might be unwarily led into proceedings, which might
afterwards be called into precedentfor the juffification
of much greater claims—left a fandion to the amount
of half a million fhould only found pretences for
cm:eel:Sons to the extent of fit millions, upon claims
which limed to rife out of the earth, and no man
knew where elfe. For his own part, he had no other
concern in coming forward upon this queffion than
a fenfe of his duty to the public, to whom he was at
lean an induarious, though, he was forty to add, not
a fficcefiful fervent. It was his misfortune to ad
almoll alone upon thole fubjeds hitherto. Neverthe-
left, he would Rill venture to hope for the aid of tome
I gentlemen who, upon the former invenigationof India
affairs, had acquired tome celebrity by their exertions
on that occafion, and feveral of whom were Rill Mem-
bers of this Houfe. If it were orderly, he would now
call on them by name t but he hoped, however, to
defignate them fo, as without any violation of parlia-
mentary order, to arreft their attention, and induce,
if poffible. their attention and aid in the difcuffion of
Wednefday next. One of them was an Honourable
Member for Norwich $ another was a Right Honour.
able Friend of hi:, confpicuous for•the brilliancy of
his eloquence on a former celebrated fubjeoft (the
Treafurer of his Majeßy's Navy). In regretting the
abfenoe of that Right Honourable Gentleman, be was
eonfcions that he only expreffed the common feeling
of that Houfe, which he had not of late illumined by
the light of his countenance (a laugh). He hoped
the Right Hon. Gentleman had not paired into infi-
nite (pace, never to return to that honfe again; for
he had the higheft opinion of his charade', his fpirit,
and integrity, and trufted he would be induced to
accept this his earneß invitation, to attend once
more in his place on Wednefday, and take part in a
difeutlion which be was fo competent to elucidate by
his kncwledge, and enliven by the vivid fplendour of
his eloquence. Mr. Francis concluded by moving
for an account of all the fume of money paid to
the Creditors of the Nabob of the Csrnatic, fubfe-
qiient to the Ad of the 24th of the King; tl:e per-
fans to whom paid, and the nature of their claims
refpedively ; diffingtilking principal from intereft.
This he thought the more neceffary, as it appeared
from the fpeech of the Noble Lord oppofite to him
( Lord Caßlereagh), which was afterwards publifhed
by him, that r,f100,0001. of the intereft-money had
been converted into principal. which was one priaci-
ple that could account for the great increafe of the
debt, and alto, that out of the debt, when it flood at
4,200.0001. a fum of 600,0001. was for intereft.
Mr. WHITSHED KEENE feconded the motion,
and Paid, he believed be could be able to throw tome
light on the caofes which led to involve the Nabob of
the Carnatie in fuch embamffments and claims of
debt from the Company's fervants. Having the ho-
nour of au early and long intimacy with Lord Ma•
canine'', who was, at one time, fent out as Governor
ro Madras, that Noble Lord, after his return to
Europe, had told him, that he bad fcarcely reached
Ithe feat of his Government twenty-four hours, when
he received a meffage from the Nabob, requelling to
fee him : the Noble Lord accordingly paid an imme-
diate ?jilt, and we; aftoniffied to find it was for the
purport of being prefented by the Nabob with a
fum of money adequate to ao,oool. with propor-
tionate tenders to the Officers of his fuite. Lord
Macanney expreffed much aftoniffiment, and declin-
es. accepting the money. at the fame time wifhing to
know the motiyes that induced fuch an offer—he was
told by the Nabob, that it was quite a entlomary
prefent to every new Governor; had never been
before refuted; that there was no violation of pro-
perty whatever in accepting it; and the offer was re-
peated, with a puffing requell to take it, as it was con.
fidered a proper compliment to the head of the Britifh
Government, whom, ever fince the taking of Pondi-
cherry. he confidered as his protector againft the
French. Lord Mafartney, however, Rill ;witted
in his refufal, of ning the Nabob, at the fame time,
of his determination to render him every fervice and
protedion in his power, as earneilly as if he had ac-
cepted his prefent. But what was the refult of this
generous, upright, and exemplary integrity and in-
dependence of that Noble Lord to himfelf ? Why,
that his conduct was every where reprobated and re-
viled by the fervants of the Company, and every
pains taken to (lender, mifieprefenr, and vilify him,
for venturing inch an innovation upon the (Om
they had fo long eftabliffied ; and Lord Macartney
refigned a Government which he felt untenable, con-
tinently with the feelings of a man of honour. Mr.
Keene heartily approved the fyflem of inveßigation
fa earnefUy recommended by the Hon. Gentleman,
and obferved, that, though it might vifit with corn.
pandious feeling' the bofoms and apprehenfions of
tome men. who had, by a corrupt abufe of their mif-
(ion in India, amaffed rapidly enormous fortunes,
thole who had made an honourable and upright ufe
of their authority there, had no terrors to meet, no
qualms to be excited by the molt fcrutinous inveffi-
gation. Let the galled jades wince ; but their withers
were unwrung.
Mr. HILEY ADDINGTON raid, he had not the
flightelt difpofition to oppofe the motion of the Hon.
Gentleman ; on the contrary, he wifhed to grant him
the Papers he required. He was very glad to obferve,
that the Hon. Gentleman, notwithftanding the decla-
ration he had a (hurt time fince made, that he would
decline all farther interference with India' queftions,
fcemed of late rather difpofed to promote inveffiga-
lions into India affairs. He rejoiced at the circum-
fiance ; 'wank, from the Hon. Gentleman's great
knowledge and extenfive experience upon India tut:-
jells, he was certainly competent to throw very im-
portant lights upon fuch fubjeffs, and bring them
home with mote died to the attention of the Houfe
and the public • which might have the good effect of
rendering the fervants of the Company. in India lets
lax in their duties. But his purpofe for riling now
was, to let the Honourable Member right in his
conception of the Bill, the true objects of which he
teemed wholly to mifapprehend. His Hnn. Friend
had not brought forward his Bill with the precipitancy
, imputed to him, but had given fair notice of every

*Nu

profaning witn rapes to it; ins so sue versals,
knowledge, the Report upon which the Bill was
founded, was delivered to Members at their refidenee
on the Friday before the Bill was introduced. The
Bill was not a call on Parliament to fantlion the
claims of the creditors of the Nabob of the Carnatic. '
nor to appoint any Cornmiffioners; thole Comeniffio-
nets had been already appointed between the parties
at iffue, namely, the Direaors and the claiming Cre-
ditors ; and the Commiffioners, with an carnet view
to the aria ends of juftiee, had been defirous of ex-
amining the parties brought before them on 'oath—
which, however, it was found they were not legally au-
thorized to tender. It was fuggßed then, that the par-
tiesmight beexamined upon their voluntary oaths, but
on confultation with eminent law authorities, it was
found that this mode alio was objeaionable. The pre-
fent Bill, therefore, only called upon the aothonty
of Parliament to invert the Commiffioners with power
to adminifter oaths for the purpofe of their enquiry,
and to render parties (wearing falfely liable to pu-
nifhment for perjury. It was not becanfe the Com-
pany withed any cattalo° from Parliament to the
authority of the Commillioners to inquire, for to that 4
they were already legally authorised, but with a
view to procure for them fuch authority as thould
bell tend to obtain that jußice : not to evade the pay-
ment of debts jolly doe, bat to feparate jolt claims
from fraudulent ones. 'The Hon. Gentleman had
raid his Hon. Friend had not voluntarily undertakes
this bufinefs, but had been induced by importunity
to bring forward this Bill. It was certainly true, his
Hon. -Friend had expreffed great sinwillingnefs to
interfere in this bufinefs, left he Omold be deemed
an interefted party; but his known talents, good
fenfit, and integrity, made it extremely definable that
a pafon of fuch a defcription thould take an altive
part in the bnfinefs, and he was induced by same&
entreaty to forego his fcrnpks, and *fume the part
he had taken with fo much advantage to the °hie&
In no hi lance had he betrayed the funnel inclination
to precipitate the Bill ; on the contrary, he had fet
out with declaring his will:, that every Member in the
Houk have the (Wien informatian op the rub.
jedt, *addle fulleft time that could be delved for con.
fidering it ; and he was convinced, that if the Hon.
Member now wined to pofipone the farther proceed.
ing on this Bill to a more dillant day, his Hon. Friend -
would concur with the lama readinefs.

Lord CASTLEREAGH defcrilmd the purview of
the Bill in the fame light precifely as the left Right
Hon. Gentleman. He Lid that, with it very conti-
derable portion of jug claims in this cafe, there was
blended an enormousportion of u nju ft, unfounded, and
fraUdulent claims t and it was for the purpofe of ena-
bling the Commilßoners to diferiminate that the Bill
was defired. Ths difcharge of the WI debts would
be produdive of important advantages to the Com.
parry, and it yeas, therefore, deferable to Oceania
them, in order to a fpeedy fettlement ; and, with re-
fped to the apprehenflons expreffed by the on.
Member, that thole debts might ultimately form
claims upon Parliament, the idea was unfounded.—
The debts were charged upon the revenues of the
Carnatie ; whatever thole revenues annually pro-
duced over the intereft, would go to a finking fund
towards clearing off the principal, and when that wad
paid off, the whole revenues would revert to the
Company.
Mr. Serjeant BEST obferved, that the deed foe
the fettlement of the claims under confideration, was
In contrived as to hold out the profpelt of doing too
little, if any thing, for thole who had equitable
claims, and of doing too much for thole whole claims
were fraudulent. Many ut the demands under coo-
fideration were, he contended, completely illegal, as
they referred to fums leo' againft a pofitive Ad of
Parliament. ' •
Mr. HOBHOUSE denied that he was guilty of
any precipitancy in the introduction' of the Bill al-
luded to, as the Report of the Committee which TO.
commended it was printed and circulated on the Fri-
day preceding the day be brought this Bill forward.
The debts now claimed, were, he °Versed, contraded
before the At of 1797, to which the Learned Gen-
tleman who left (poke alluded, and therefore not
within the proviGons of that law.
After a few more remarks, by Mr. Serjeant Belt
and Lord.Cafilereagh, the Motion was agreed to.
Mr. FRANCIS then Paid, that in prefacing his
fecund motion he amid intrude but a few minutes
nn the patience of the Houle. In what he had faid,
he had not entered into the merits of the Bill, good or
bad. He had indeed Rated, that the Honourable
Gentleman teemed to him to have carried op the
meafure with precipitancy; but that, he now agreed,
had been fufficiently accounted for. As to his hav-
ing infatuated that the Honourable Gentleman was
himfelf interefted in the meafure, he begged it to be
underilood that he had not infinuated, but had ex.
prefsly Rated, that be did not think the fituation of
Member of fuch a Committee and of a Member of
this Houfe exactly compatible; and what had been
Rated as to the fcruples entertained by the Honottrai.
ble Gentleman himfelf, as to the propriety of the
Bill originating with him, feemed to thew that he
himfelf was nut exactly fatisfied that two loch cha.
rafters ought to be united in the fame perfon. The
Noble Lord oppnfite had admitted that many of the
claims made againft the Nabub had no exigence in
truth, of courfe that there were here enormous frauds
to guard against. He was certain that all the perfons
who at prefent form the Court of Diredors, were men
of honour and probity, but he could not fay what
they might be twenty years hence. It could not be
Paid there was never an inftance of a man's facriicing
the interelt of any Corporate body with which he
might be connected to individual feelings. All.he
contended for was, that the thing was potable. As
to the validity of many of the debts, he had to Rate
a Get, that a houfe of great eminence lately failed
at Madras, among whole acts were found Paper,
amounting to to lacks of pagodas, of the Nabob of
Arcot's. The houfe had employed the money en-
trolled to them in buying up the paper of this Prince,
which, from being a drug, worth next to nothing,
and which in all probability did not colt more
than twopence in the pound, would, if admitted
without proper enquiry, produce a fortune to
the holders. This, he thought, deferred ferious at-
, tension. He had ufed the freedom, in making his
former motion, to call the particular attention of cer-
tain individual Members to the Wines. He now
begged, in addition, to rcquetl to it the attention and
A (finance of the Honourable Direlors, and particu.
tarty of their relpeetable Chairman, whom he now

'few in the Route, who, he hoped, would, If poffible,
attend and give his affillance in the difeuffion. As to
an obfervation by an Honourable Gentleman, (Mr.
Addington), be bad to Rate that he never did fay that
he would not in future attend to Indian affairs, 11
though what he did fay on that oceafion had been
mifreprefented out of doors. He had put what he
then Paid on record, and to that he referred. He,
then concluded by moving for an account of the fe- '
veral debts now due or demandable from the Paid
Nabobs, diftinguilbing as in the former motion.
Mr. GRANT declared, that he had no °Nation
to any fcrutiny of the kind. No perfon could be lefs
interefted in it, perfonally, than he and the other
Members of the Court of Direitors. The interfer•
ing in the bufinefs originally, was very far from being
a favourite with the Direaors, and if they could they
would have had nothing to do with it. They only
believed that there was actually fomething due to the
creditors, and all their with was that this fhould be
paid. Such was the °Nee of the Bill. That it could
have the effea of making a rife in the value of the
debts' he could not conceive. The vet y revel fe molt
malt have been the cafe. It reduced the Annuities,
at the outlet, to the one-half, by making the inter&
fix infiead of twelve per cent. ; and the principal muff
have experienced a proportional depreciation.
Mr. FRANCIS explained j when the motion was
agreed to.
Oa the mike el Lord CASTLEPIAOH, there ow ordered
Mls hid beim the Houle as Amara of the Total Number of
tileisdled mkt the Atldideml foes A*, ia awl week. down to
tie somus.atits=ntbsie ni
yelledt by Peri& Mere ; and
1.4 plc l~ ralpsdthdy.
A ame seeded *am the Lords, eating, that hit Ma.
kiss Wiesededst se glee sedan that a Coen be prepared is
'Vi —eel Mer he the aid of Henry Lord Irlfeteutt
Alfa, dot thdr bad ismed to the Irith Mlhda fiervlee
MIL vitiate ear
air I. stNCLArit yea mice, that be Amid 0041501T0W we
for aComrotttec to sadder the accounts of the Fasfetted Mates
to amebic& Adjoined,