Star.
London, England, 1807-02-27 00:00:00

WESTMINSTFIt ILECTIOC

Lord FOLKSTONE faid, he held in his hand a
Petition, complaining of a violation of one of the
Standing Orders or Refnlntions of the Houfe, viz.
that of tampering with Witneffes. In this petition,
he faid, Mr. Paull charged Mr. Sheridan and others,
with tampering with witneffes, and prayed that the
parties complaining might be heard by themfelves or
Counfel at the Bar of the Floufe.

The petition was then read, and Rated the procee•
d iogs which have taken place relative to Mr. Paull's
petition againa Mr. Sheridan's return, which had
been poflponed to the 14th April. That fince the
firlt pofiponement, Mr. Sheridan, confederating with
Henry Burgeft, James Wallace, and John Gallant,
had tampered with William Drake ; had offered him
a fituation abroad, to provide alto for his father, and
advifed hits to keep out of the way 'till the inquiry
on the petition was over, and offered money to get
poffellion of a letter to Emanuel Harris, which was
of great importance to the Petitioner. That this
was a confpiracy on the part of Mr. Sheridan and
others, to keep witneffes out of the way, and to pre-
vent their being examined, to the great injury of the
petitioner, agatnft the law, and contrary to the Re-
folutions of the Houle, &c.

Lord FOLKESTONE moved that the Petition do
lie on the table.—Ordered.

Mr. SHERIDAN Paid, he fuppofed the Noble
Lord meant to follow up the petition lying on the
tablearith foinethitig further, as this was a grave
matter, and fhoutd not be fuffered to peep.
Lord FOLKESTONE laid he fhould make atno-
don on the fulsjeet to-morrow.
Lnrd HOWICK laid, that being a matter of Pri•
vilege, it ought to be taken into confederation as
fpeedily as poffible, and he thought the Noble Lord
timid make his motion that night.
Mr. SHERIDAN Paid, the Noble Lord had done
no more than his duty required in 'prefenting the pe-
tition. 'lf he were to fuller himfelf to go into the fob.
jeer, he was afraid he might exprefs himfelf with that
indignation which loch a charge naturally infpired.
He would, therefore, content himlelf with faying,that
thofe who knew him knew every word'of the petition
to be a falfehood,fO far as regarded the charge of
tampering with witneffes; and he hoped he Ihould be
allowed to prove at the Bar, that every man produced
againft him on the fubjeft was fuborned.
Lord. HOWICK Paid, he thought the right courfe
for the Noble Lord to proceed in, was to move im-
mediately for a Committee of Privileges, that no de
lay might enfue, and to appoint a daywhen the mat-
ter timid fe heard. There was one part of the Pe-
tition, he !lid, which the Houle could not attend to,
which prayed that the petitioners might be heard by
their Counf;:l, which, in a matter of Privilege, could
not be allov)ed.-

Lord FOLKESTONE faid he was forry to find
the Noble Lord (Howick) and he differed in opinion
on- the fakir& He thought witneffes might be heard
at the Bar ; the Right Hon. Gentleman who was the
_objea of the petition had faid, that this was a grave
Matter ; as loch he wilhed to treatit. He had heard
a great deal laid againft bringing forward any motion
of a grave and important nature without giving no-
tice ; he had therefore given notice for to-morrdiv.
He was nor prepared at prefent to go on with the
fuhjeff, and if the /Noble Lord perlitted in urging the
prccedure now he woold ilifle the inquiry.
The SPEAKER laid, that as the petition had been
ordered to nliti nn the table, no further motion could
be-made on it that evening. = , •
Lord HOWICK laid he only wilhed to prevent
the poilibility of a miltake. He had no wilh to dale
the proCeeding, but wilhed on the contrary it fhould
have the lona invefiigation, which a matter of filch
high importance defer ved. He had only ftated, that
it would be right to appoint % Committee 9f Privi-
leges, and that a day timid be exprefsly akrointed
to take .the fame into conlideration. There was a
bufinefs of importance which flood for to night (the
Committee on the Slave Trade) which, from the
late hour, 'mull be put off till to-morrow ; perhaps
it would be as agreeable to the Noble Lord to make
his motion 'on Morday.
The SPEAKER Lid, he fhould proceed no fur-
ther with private bufinefs this evening ; and begged
to remind the Houle, that to morrow was the hal
day for receiving private petitions ; and it .would be
well toconfider there was a ballot flood for to-morrow,
and if a fuffieient number Ihould not appear, how the
bufinefs of the private petitions would band.
Lord HOWICK faid, he underttood it to be the

,

praelice, that if a ballot fhnuld not be obtained to.
morrow, anceher day would be appointed f Rceivii ;
private petitions.
Mr. ADAM wifhed to know from the Noble Lord
what it was he intended to move ?

Lord FOLKESTONE Paid he had no objeaion to
date the objta of his motion, which was to get wit.
nefles to the Bar of the Houle, to be there examined.
He accordingly fixed his motion for Monday.

FINANCES.

Lord CASTLEREAGH pottponed his adjourned debate on the
Finances to Monday fortnight.

SLAVE TRADE.

Mr. ADDINGTON mow the printing of the Pzpers on de
Table with regard to the bland of Trinidad.

mr.wILBERFOR CF. fuggefted to his Hon. Friend, that as thnfe
Papers related to a meafure before the Houle, (thc Slave "Fradc),
the reading of them might be neceffary to fome Members. They
ought not therefore, he fubmitted, to be taken off the table, par-
ticularly as if the order for printing were acceded to, that order
would not he executed until the meafure to which thefe papers rt.
lated would have gone through the Hcufr. •
The motion was withdrawn.

Lard HOWICK, with a view to allow rime for the prepara-
tion of fome claufts, which it was thought expedient to introduce
into the Bill, for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, propofed the
order for its committal to-day fhould be difcharged, and that it
ihould be fixed for to•merrow.-.Agreed.

Mr. HIBBERT gave notice, that he mould to morrow,previova
to any difcuffion on the Slave Trade Abolition Bill, move for a
Committee of the whole Houfe, to take into cenlidetation the
propriety of empowering the Committee on the Bill to receive a.
Claufe for allowing Compenfation to the Perkins who ihould be,
injured by the paling of the Paid Bill. • •
The SPEAJUR inforMed the Hqn. Member,- that as fuch a
motion relatetitn an expenditure of public money, he would be
mindfdl of the rule of the Houk, that the motion could not be
received unkfs it had the reeonnuendatipu of the Minkters of the:.
Crown.

CALL OF THE HOUSE.

Lord HOWICK moved, that the order fur the Call of the Houk
thould be difeharged, and appointed for to-morrow. when tae
Noble Lord exprelfod his apprchenfion that it would be tiecerary.
to Caiiy the or-ler into effect. He ad d, that he was muchafraid
that until the ballots were difpored of, the Houfe would feel itfClf
obliged to enforce this order..
AFFAIRS OP THE CARNATIC.
Sir T. TURTON b'e in purfuance of the Molina'
which he had given on the fob's& of the Carnatic, and
expreffed a hope that the objet which he had in view
would juttify him in moving for the papers relating
to this important queflion. A Right Hon. Gentle.
man (Mr. Sheridan) had taken up the bufiriefs five
or fix years ago, but fince then had deemed it proper
to abandon his enquiry; he timid not queflion the
motives which had influenced the Right Honourable
Gentle Man's conduel on that occafion—he did not
impute to him any improper or interefled views in
abandoning the invefligation. The Right Honour-
able Gentleman had at all times, when the interell
or !Amur of the country were concerned, (hewed
himfelf aituated by the Mott laudable and patriotic
intention ; he could not therefore induce himfelf to
believe that the Right Hon. Gentleman had changed
hiS principles with his change of place. As to lind•
Pelf, he could affure the Houfe, that his only object
was to vindicatd the charalter of the country from
the foul charger call upon it by the papers which
had been printed relative to this fubjeCt. It was
full time that thole who were guilty, if any; Mould
be made refponfible for their conduEt. Juflice alfo
demanded that the Noble Marquis (Wellefley) who
was more particularly the °Nee of. Indian chergei,
that the Board of Coniroul, the Court of Direc-
tors, the Government of Madras, &c. fhould be at-
forded an opPortunity of eflablifhinitheiit innocence,
if it was in their power to do fo. On this ground
he fhould move for the reprinting of the ad volume
of Auguß 1803, containing certain papeis and cord
refpondence refpe&ing the tranfailions in theCarnatic,
and certain o.her papers refpe&ing the roligars.
Mr. SHERIDAN thanked the Hon. Baronet fo;
the liberality with which he viewed his condo& and
;alined him, that he did himfelf (Mr. S.) no more
than jußice in believing that he had noi been in-
fluenced by any felfifh ?natives in not perfevering to
bring forward the affair of the Carnatic. Having
already Rated his reafons for the line of condull
which he thought right to purfue on that fubjeet, he
lhould not now trouble the Houfe with a repetition
of it. He could not, however, fit down, without
having it' underflood diftinetly, that whenever the
queflion fhould be brought forward, it was his fixed
determination to give all the fupport in his poWei
to' the charges exhibited againtt all the parties impli•
rated in that tranfaetion.

Sir JOHN ANSTRUTHEA oppofei the motion
on the ground tkat it was too Vague for the Houfe
to entertain on fo grave a fubjeft as that to which it
referred. He walled to know from the Honourable
Baronet, againit whom he meant to Aired this en-
quiry. He thought that, at all events, no good
could be produced by the motion, though much mil:
chief might be the confequence of it. If the objeir
of the Hon. Baronet was to exonerate the Noble
Marquis (Wellefley), he would find that his enquiry
would fail in that relpea—for it 'would appear that
the Executive Officers in India, to whom thefe charges
applied, had meted in obedience to their inftruetions;
he did not think, therefe.re, that any benefit could
accrue either to this country or to India from come
plying with the motion.
Mr. GRANT had no perfinal fears upon this fob-
jeer. He would venture to alert, that the Court of
Directors never ordered the affirmption of territory
is the' Carnatic, never wilted for it, nor ever ap-
proted,:ot tbe manner in which it was done. He
was forprited that the Hon. Baronet who (poke lad
(Sir J. •Airliruther) fhould have confounded the
Cow tof Direitors with the Secret Committee. The
Secret Committee were merely the organs of the
Board of Contrail!, and the Court of Directors knew
nothing of their proceedings, except what they
chofe to tell them. It often happened, that this Se.
cret Committee did not themfelves knew what letters
were feet in their name, but finned them merely by
the direction of the Board of Controul. Among the
Papers, however, which had been printed, there was
one difpatch which hod been fent to Lord Wellefley,
which diftinaly proved that the tranfaelion in the
Carnatic was not authorifed' by the Court of Direc-
tors, but was molt contrary to their willies and es-
prefs defire. They had reprefented to his Lordthip.
is that if (with the good will and free confent of the
Nabob) any territory could be procured, in return
Frr the troops to be furnifhed for the Polygar war,
fuch an arrangement would be very defirable, but
that he was by no means to tile any force or corn-
pulfion." So that it appeared that the Governor
General allied contrary to inftruetions, and that his
conduet never had been fence approved of by the Di,

tl• . s

I

maws of the Eaft India Company, however it
might have been fanaioned by the Board of Controul
or the Secret Committee. He cnnfidered that that
Honfe was the tribunal to which the nations that were
uppreiTed in India ought to look, and that the Honfe
&told confider themfelves in a peculiar manner the
guardians of India. He thought the interefts now
brought Wore the Houle were ton great to be cont•
prowled, out of refpea to the feelings of any indi.
viduals,and he therefore felt anxious for the enquiry.
Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY declared himfelf
generally favourable to every enquiry upon the fib-
jea ; but he walled to know diffinaly to what points
the Honourable Baronet meant to dire° his enquiries.
lathe fir ft place he withed to know, whether he meant
to blame his Lnrdthip for fending tro"ps againft the
Polyp: s. He thought, however, that after five years,
and when rhnfe trai Catalans had been approved of by
the Secret Comn,i'tee, the Direaors, the Board of
Controul, the Minitters of the laft Cabinet, and that
Houfe, it was rather extraordinary in the Honourable
Baronet to bring forward the enquiry now.
Mr. R. THORNTON felt confiderable pain at the
very uncandid manner (as he conceived) in which
the Court of Direann had been attacked. When the
enquiry was lift propofed, he conceived that he was
going hand in hand with the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Sheridan) who brought it forward,
but foon he found out, that he himfeliwas alfo to be
fubjeaed to his charge. The Right Honourable
Gentleman afterwards, for fume vague and indefinite
reafons, declined going on with the charge. As for
him, he wati too much occupied with his duty in
Leadenhall.fireet, to with to make hirafelf the often
fible perfon, in bringing forward criminationa in that
Houle, againft perfnns offending in India. There
were many other realims which made the India Di-
reams not precifely the perfons fitteß to bring for-
ward thole accufations. He denied, however, aloft
pofitively, that they ever lent their countenance to
this trantation. _ _

Mr. TIERNEY agreed, that the papers moved for
fhould be primed, as he thought that the Houfe of
Commons fhould be held out to India as the dernier
refire. He regretted, however, exceedingly, that this
bufinefs had been now agitated, and could not con-
ceive any poflible good which could fining out of the
propofed enquiry. The Hon. Baronet, before he
brought forward a propofition for an inveßigation of
this fubjeft, now of fo long Banding, fhould have
well confidered the mifchievous confequence likely so
enfue from it in India, after the large transfers of
property whi( h had been made under the new order
of things. Confident he was, that no poffible good
could be derived from loch an enquiry, though very
poffibly, and moR probably, much mitchief. Before
the Houfe, however, fhould accede to the Honourable
Baronet's motion, he nulled the Honourable Baronet
would give tome diflina anfwer as to his objeft, and
what courfe he meant to purfue. He by no means
agreed in the definition given by an Honourable
Direaor oppofite to him, of the powers of the Se-
cret Committee. They were elefted by the Court
of Direents, and fuppoled to (peak their fenti-
runts ; and they were competent to frame dd.-
patches to the fel vants of the Company in India ;
although he would allow the Board of Controul
might annul filch difpatches, and fend others of a
quite different nature. But Rill he could not admit
that the Secret Committee was quite fuch a nullity
in the fytlem as had been this night aliened. For
his own pail, he withed in no inßance to shrink from
the refponfibility attached to his fituation, nor was it
his intention to throw any impediment in the way of
the Hnn.Baronet towards obtaining any papers within
his con•roul, which, upon perufal, he lhould find it
would be prudent to grant. He therefore wifhed,
that in moving for any additional papers not already
before the Houfe, the Hon. Baronet would fpecify
the particular dates, and not move generally and in-
dilcriminately for all papers ratting to particular

Lord FOLKESTONE thought it unfair to prefs
the Hon. Baronet to a fpecification of the prccife
ground of proceeding he timid adopt, until the
Papers he moved for were before the Houfe ; and
in his opinion the Hon. Baronet would be well jai-
tied in declining to fpecify his obje& until the evi-
dence for which be moved should firft be laid on the
table.

Mr. HILEY ADDINGTON obferved, that dur-
ing the laft Seffion of Pa►liament, in which there had
been more India Papers moved for than in any fix
Seffions preceding, be had uniforthly taken oedafion,
when the Mover-omitted 3o ilite•!sts object, to call
for explanation on that hea4; becaufe he thought
the explanation due in eandlur to the Houfe, before
it Ihould be expeded to grant fuch motions. He
imputed no improper motives to the Honourable
Baronet, but hoped he would have no- objeflion to
explain h s precife objet.
Mr. SPENCER STANHOPE thought it ex-
rremely unreafonable to call upon the Honourable
Baronet for fuch an explanation before he Ihould
have ken the papers. The Noble Marquis, whofe
conduit was in queftion, might fay he had ailed by
direilioas of the India Company. It might on the
other hand be alledged, that he ailed from his own
will. How then could the truth appear until the docu-
ments were on the table? But the truth was, he himfelf
&winch a difinclination to enquiry on this fubje*sf, as
gave him little ground to exped it would be ferioufly
entertained by the Houfe. He well remembered, in the
cafe of Sir Thomas Rumbold, with what avidity it,
was received by the Houfe in the firft Seiflon it was'
introduced; but in the next two Selfions the zeal of
the Houle was flackened, and it became quite the
dinner bell wherever the fobjed was introduced. He
feared that, under the prefent fyftem of government
in India, the enquiry would not be entertained. For
fixtecn long years he had witneffed, Sellion after
Seffion, the foiemn farce of eleding a Committee of
India Judicature, who never till this hour had a fingle
cafe of India delinquency referred to them. But when
he conndered that the Britifh Government in India
had dethroned more Princes than Bonaparte had
done in Europe, he would afk, was it continent with
any femblance of jullice that no enquiry Ihould take
place ?

Sir THOMAS TIJRTON replied, at fome length,
to the arguments which had been employed agatrat
his motion.
Atter a few words from Sir ARTHUR WEL•
LESLEY mid Mr. SHERIDAN, the queltion wits
Let icd.— Adjourned at eleven o'clock.,