Star.
London, England, 1831-07-26 00:00:00

THZ FRENCH TING'S SPIECE.

Lord CHANDOS asked, was it correctly stated, in the
petch of the king of the French, that the fortesems on the
frontiers of Bel,Tium were to be demolished ; and if so,
whether England had given her consent ?
Lord ALTHORP said, it was evident that fortresses
could be no defence unless garrisoned ; and it was absolutely
impossible for Belgium to garrison them at present. It
therefore became a question whether they should ill be kept
up? as, instead of being a defence against France, by not
being properly garrisoned, France might suddenly take pos-
session of them. The guarantee of the independence of
Belgium by all the great power+, and it also being for their
interest that she should be independent, formed a better se-
curity for the safety of Europe against France, than the
existence of fortresses not sufficiently garrisonce.
Mr. ROBINSON said, this was another instance of our
policy. We some years ago spent an immerse sum of money
on the erection of these fortresses. for the protection of Eu-
rope against France; and now we were told, Europe would
be better protected by their demolition. Ile could act no
value on guarantees.
Lord CHANDOS asked, was it a fact that the tri-
coloured flag waved on the walls of Lisbon, as stated in the
King of France's speech ?
Lord ALTHORP said be rather thought that was a mis.
translation—that the fact was, the flag waved before the
walls of Lisbon. _ _

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the fortresses were not to
be demolished till the independence of Belgium should be
acknowledged by all the Great Powers of Europe.
Lord STORMONT said it was necessary a day should
be appointed for the discussion of the subject.
Lord ALTHORP said Government would not propose
a day while negociations were pending ; he thought too much
had been already disclosed.
The Hon. Mr. GORDON asked whether Government had
received Information that the French fleet bad forced the pas..
sage of the Tagus.
Lord PALMERSTON said a letter had been received
from our Ambassador at Paris that morning, stating that a
telegraphic dispatch bad just been received, stating that the
French fleet had entered the Tagus, after some little resist.
dice, and that the demands of France were then acceded to.

COMMITTEE OF surreY.
The house resolved itself into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. S. RICE moved that 112.1951. be granted for the
eAlaties of Consuls, and expenses of the Consular establish-
Mr. ROBINSON thought the present system of paying
Consuls was most extravagant. Of what use was a Consul
at Paris, or at Madrid ? There was no country in the world
W,T511 served by its Consuls than this country. He was
art-aid. unless we practised greater economy, our financial
tl.fficulties must increase.
Letd PALMERSTON said, he had not been able to pre.
pare a plan to submit to the house ; but would engage to
co it next Session. The present sum was 9,0001. less than
last year.
Mr. GORDON said, if the noble lord had applied to his
colleague, the First Lord of the Admiralty. he could supply
him with a plan cut and dried, which he had already pro..
duced to the House.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON thought the charge on the
country by the large salaries paid Consuls required to be
diminished ; and he was confident the noble lord would pro-
pose such a plan as speedy as possible.
Mr. S. RICE said, the system of paying Consuls by
salaries had been forced on the government, and should be
changed with caution.
Mr. M. RIDLEY said, the payment of Consuls by
sAlaries, Instead of feet, had been made at the recommen.
t'ation of a Committee.
Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS said, when Consuls were
raid by fees they were generally intelligent merchants; but
since they had been paid by salaries incompetent persons
were appointed.
Mr. ROBINSON said he was afraid the Noble Lord
would not have more leisure next year than the present. He
found the saving of this year was but 3,5001. The salary of
the Consul at Mexico was 2,5001 a-year.
Sir GEORGE ROSE thought if the former system of
payment by fees was resorted to, apcl a scale of fees fixed, all
cause of complaint would be removed.
Mr. WARBURTON thought the system of employing
mercantile men was the best, provided the salaries were so
small as not to make it an object of patronage to the Go-
vernment at home.

The resolution sou agreed to.
550,0001. was granted for the Army Extracadinatics.
393,0431. for Commivariat Departments.
slr. S. RICE said the next vote was 39,8351. for law
expenses In Scotland, and included 26,0001. formerly paid
out of the Excise and Customs.—Agreed to.
2 9401. was voted for the Civil Establishment of the
Bahama Islands, exclusive of the salaries of officers.--
Agreed to.
The sum of 6,6111. was moved for to defray the Civil
T.s.ablishment of Nova `Scotia for 1831.--Agreed to.
The sum of 4,0001, was moved fur to defray the Civil
Establishment of the Island of Bermuda for 1831.
Agreed to.
The sum of 3,3201. was moved for to defray the Civil
Establishment of Prinei• Edward's Island for 1831.
Agreed to.
The sum cf 11,2611. 'au moved for to defray the expen.
e hurt of the Civil Establishment of Newfoundland.
A long convereatient followed, after which the motion
was agreed to.
9.7111. 151. 10d. hiving been moved for the Civil Eats-
bikhmen t of Sierra Leone,
Lord HOWICK, in answer to a question from Lord G.
Sr.mtr'et, said, preparations to a considerable extent had
Into carried on for the removal of the Court of Bits:Ed Coro-
missior, frdm Sierra Leone to Fernando Po, when Spain set
tip a claim to the latter place. and refused to abandon it ex-
cept on the payment of 100,0001. The Court must be held
on British 4round. The payment of that rum being deemed
out of the question, Spain was asked to cede only such a
small portion of the island u might enable the sittings to
take place. To this she had not as yet agreed. Fernando
Po, however, it appeared, was not much healthier than
Sierra Leone.
Tel. K. DOUGLAS said, the chief ol.jcct of Sierra Leone
was the abolition of the slave trade. The abolition could
not be accomplished until France had acceded to a mutual
right of search ; that acceded to, the trade would be done
away with in three months. Our resent attempts were as
expensive as they were useless, having cost us in the course
of a few years no less than 8,000,0001.
Sir G. 51U BRAY thought it fair to Spain to state, that
ete was a illing to allow us* settlement for the purpose men-
tioned, refusing, however, to concede the right of sove-
reignty. He recommended the colonization of Sierra
Leone by West Indians and others habituated to the climate.
He agreed with the hon. member ( Mr. K. Douglas) that
the non-abolition of the slave trade was owing to the want of
a zealous and faithful co-operation on the part of the French
Government.
Col. TOR RENS. had received that very day letters from
Fernando Po, 'stating that the most perfect health prevailed
there. He regretted that it was not to be retained as n Bri-
tish possession. He considered that possession highly con.
ducive to the abolition of the slave trade, the protection of
the West India interest, and to the promotion of the corn.
menu and civilization of Africa.
Mr. 11A MMEItSLY said the slave trade was principally
carried on by Spain.
An Hie. Member thought that the speech of the King of
the Franclidshored the French Government intended to do
something towards the abolition.
jrzAn lion. Member (whose name was also unknown) did

mot entertain very sanguine hopes from what was held out in
that extraordinary production. ( Hear.) The slave trade
was chiefly carried on under the French hag.
Sir J. GRAHAM agreed that nothing but a mutual right
of search could repress the trade. Every exertion had been
made, and would continue to be made, to induce France to
a concession on this point. The present expense of our
anti.slave trade establishment, in our naval department ,
alone, was 130,0001 a year. With respect to Fernando Po,'
the statement of the right hon. baronet (Sir G. Murray) wu
perfectly correct : Spain only refused the act of sovereignty ;
but the cession of that right must be obtained before the
Court could sit in the island. Negociations with Spain on
that point, as with France on the point of a mutual right of
search, were pending: he hoped a successful issue would
attend in both cases. _ _____ _

The vote, after a few words from Captain CANNING,
waa agreed to.
4,0001. were next voted for expenses connected with the
ports of Cape Coast Castle and another-place.
in the motion that 10.1821. be granted to the society for
the propagation of the gospel,
Mr. WARBURTON said he would not divide the
house, as part of the money had been already expended.
But nothing tended more to alienate the colonies, where the
majority were not of the established church, than votes, like
the present,which were devoted entirely to the propagation of
the Anglican principles. He would divide the house on
the next necaaion.

Mr. WILES (we believe) deprecated the promotion of
one doctrine exclusively.
Mr. LABOUCH ERE was convinced that votes like the
present sowed discord in the Canada& Ile had three ques-
tions to ask ministers. Was it their intention to propose
similar grams in future ? He did not wish a sudden with.
drawal of the allowances, for that would inflict great hard.
shin on the established church ecclesiastics in Canada. But
would they propose similar grants on principle ? Next, had
guvernnient under their consideration the clergy reserves ?
The present system, of allotting land to the established
church, and net to other churches, excited much jealousy
towards it, without conducing to its pecuniary emolument.
Thirdly, nothing could be more preposterous than esta-
blishing a university in "Upper Canada on principles which
prevented nine-tenths of the Inhabitants from participating
in its benefit. (Hear.) Was its charter under the soul-
&ration of Government ?

111 r. WARBURTON would propose a fourth question.
Was Government in possession of a Memorial to the Crown,
I said to have been sent over by the Anglican clergy of Quebec,
1 praying that the Clergy Reserves might not be divided be-
tween them and the Church of Scotland ? Now, it was
originally intended that the Reserves should be applied to
both Chuichel.
Lord ALTHORP did not defend the present vote on
principle. (Hear, hear.) The subject was one of consider-
able difficulty, involving the whole question of the Church
Establishment and Instruction in Canada. No rapid steps
could, therefore, be taken. But it appeared to hint that it
was not fitting that this country should provide sums for the
clergy of Canada. (Bear, hear.) Therefore it was his in-
tention gradually to reduce the grant, and to abolish it en-
tirely as soon as possible. Time Clergy Reserves involved
still greater difficulty, because it was an arrangement fixed
by Act of Path:uncut. Though it was true that the present
system was detrimental to the colonies, it was impossible for
him to give any pledge of alteration. The charter was ruder
consideration. With respect to the fourth question, he was
not aware that any such memorial as alluded to had been
received.

Mr. HUNT said the new Members would be surprised
to learn that last year it was proposed by the hon. gentlemen
opposite to reduce the present grant by one half, and to dis•
continue it totally in the year 1831. The first name in the
list of the minority co this occasion, was Lord Althorp, and
the last, Lord Howick.—(A laugh.) It was his intention
to follow their example of last year. The sum raised by
subscription by the Gospel Society, since its foundation in
1814, was 33,5431. while the sum paid by parliament in the
tante period was 203,0881. He found a bishop in Canada
in the year's receipt of 2,4001. an archdeacon in the receipt
1,7001.; and others with corresponding allowances. The
society had in Barbadoes two estates, with 700 slaves 00
them, the produce of which supported a college for the eels'.
cation of the sons of placemen and pensioners. Under these
circumstances, he should move that the grant be reduced by
half this year, and totally abolished next year.
Lord HOWICK said, he moved the amendment alluded
to on the ground that the house should not vote money for
such purposes. But at the same time he was unwilling
to expose to any hardship the individuals already employed
by the society. His motion wax not made with any view to
the immediate abolition of the grant, but to impress on the
Committee the importance of doing away with it as soon as
possible. Now, the Noble Lord had pledged himself to
abolish it. The individuals employed by the society were
meritorious men, maintained on salaries merely sufficient
for their decent subsistence. A sudden withdrawal of the
grant would be it monstrous injustice.
Sir R. GORDON (we believe) said, the Society bad
showed neglect in the management of its funds.
Mr. HUNT felt confident that if the ecclesiastics were as
described by the noble lord, the rich church of England
would come to their relief,—(a laugh)—on the reduction be
proposed being effected.
Sir B. INGLIS said, that it was the duty of every govern.
ment to carry its own views of religion into effect, lo every
part of the world where it had power; and with that feeling
he should support the grant. As to what bad fallen from
the honourable member for Preston, it was assertion for
assertion

Sir J. DOYLE observed that the bishopric of Derry was
now vaunt. Would it not be advisable to apply its reve-
nues to the purposes of this grant, and then the present
grant would be unnecessary? (31uch cheering and laughter.)
Mr. HUNT said he admired the suggestion vastly ; it
was a very good one, and if it were adopted he would readily
withdraw his opposition. As to the remark of the hon.
member for Oxford, it was not assertion ;or assertion; be
had quoted Mr. Griffin who had been on the spot—the hon.
member only used assertion.
Mr. BARING was against large grants of this kind, and
be should concur in it only in the hope that it would in
future be reduced.

The gallery was then cleared for a division. The num.
bets were—

For the grant ..
For the amendment

.. .. 16

.. 27

Majority in favour of it .. 138
Lord HOW ICK then moved the following grants :
37,0001. for stores, on account of New South Wales, Van
Dieman's Land, &c.
_ _

37,1451. for the establishment at Fernando Po. Agreed to.