Star.
London, England, 1815-05-25 00:00:00

PARLMMENTARr PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 24.
Lord Ettstiaostottan again officiated as Speaker this (hi, ht
consequence of the continued indisposition of the Loa u CHAN•
CiLLUS.
Mr. Kingston presented at the Bar certain Annual Accounts
front the'Directors of the East India Company, pursuant to the
Act of the 54th of his Majesty.—Ordered to Be on the table.
•Ilie Militia Laws Amendment, the Irish Assessed faxes, and
the lsish Excise Duties Bill., wer: read a third time and passed.
A private Bill was brought up front the Commons by Lotd
Jo WILY pi and others, and read a first tinte.
The Scots Mad Houses Bill received some amendments in a
Committee, on the suggestion of Lord REDESUALE. 'To be
exported to-morrow.
The Scot* Hawkers and Pedlars Regulation Bill was read a
Mond time, and comittive.l for to-morrow.
On the motion of the Marquis of LANsDOWNE, the recom-
mitment of Lord Roseberry's Devotee Bid was deterred till to-
imorrow.---Adjtnt rind.
•
• HOUSE OF COMMONS.
There being 150 Members present before four o'clock, the
for the Dow npatrick Election Committee took place, when
the following Gentlemen were chosen:
Messrs A Buller, C. Bathurst, W. Rashtey, M. Barne, H. C.
Clement, C. E. Wilson, J. Bolivia, R. Arkwrigh• W. R Cart-
wright, J. Brogden, J. Marryatt, C. Buller, J. N. iazekerley, H.
.Wrottesley, and G. Holtord.
As soon as the Ballot was over, Lord CASTLARZAGII post-
visaed his notice of the motion for the Address till to-mortises—
(this day). •
The House went into a Committee on the Weights and Mea-
sures Bat Resolutions were agreed to, and the tardier pro-
gress of the Bill fixed for Friday se'onight.
The Local Militia, White kierrirg fishery. Irish Hired Ser-
vants, and some other Bills were ordered for a third reading
to-morrow.

MONUMENT TO SIR E. PAKENHAM.
General GASCOIGNE wished to know whether it woo the
inte.ution of Government to propose the erection of a Monument
to that gallant officer, General Sir Edward Pakenham?
I.urd CAS I'LEKLAGH said, that as to the mein, and die-
tiuguithed services of-that gallant Officer there could be but one
opinion ; but the action m which be tell was not of a description
to call Itir such a public testimony, and the adoption of it would
be opening a door to a precedent which might prove extremely
expensme and inctervenient.
Urrieral GASCOIONE would not admit that this would ope-
rate as a precedent. He should therefore give notice, ilia on
Monday next, he would move for an Address to the Prince Re-
gent on the subject. On being, however, reminded by the
Speaker, that the House would not sit on Monday, he said he
should take an early opportunity of bringing forward the mode°.
Sir JOHN N.EW POR r complained of delay in the execution
of the Orders of the House, relative to the production of certain
Accounts relative to the Stamp Duties of Ireland, and moved
that they be laid beforsothe House forthwith. Agreed to.
Mr. bIRCH animadverted on the Grants made by Govern-
ttient to the Liverpool Port and Dock Company, and after ens.'
tering into a detail of the different sums they had borrowed and
tspeuded, he moved that the Papers relative thereto should be
titru.lt.ced and printed, preparatory to the appolutmentwf a Com-
mittee of Inquiry.
After several explanation on the part of the CtIANCELLOR of
the E'en egllta, and replies from Mr. Iitt4NICT7, Sir 1. New •
!UST' and General GASCOIGNE, the motion ',named to.
Lord C.sTLEREAGH presented a variety of Papers, amongst
which were some relative to Naples, which were ordered to lie
am the table and to be pointed.
Lord PALMERsION postponed the consideration of the
Allay Exuatodinaries, till enday sena:gilt.

GRANT TO LORD iiRLVILLE.

Lord MILTON, on rising to bring forward a mo-1
'ion on this subject, with the particulars of which the
House acre well acquainted, disclaimed all ~otives
for interference but those of his public duty. He had
no feelings of an advei se nature towards the deceased
nobleman or any of his relatives or friends. but on
public grounds ~nly he -deemed it necessary' to take
up the subject. The history of the grant might be
traced to the letter of the Earl of Buckinghamshire
to the Court of Directors, of the date of the 14th Ja-
nuary, 18 This letter, which had long been before
the House, referred to a conversation which the No-
Isle Earl, as President of the Board of Conti mil, had
bad with the Chairman of the India Company ; bin
there was no Parliamentary knowledge of the subject
previous to this letter. It recommended the granting
of a sum of money to the present Lord Melville, a
person who was not a servant of the Company but a
- Amister of the Crown ; it stated the high situation
field by his. Lordship's father, and rtcomniended,.
that to avoid the discredit uhich would attach to his
meniory, by the non-payment of his debts, the sum
of A 20,000 should be proposed to the Coon of Di-
rectors, to be granted to his son. Tire great object,
.eiowever, of me Board of Comicial, was to prevent
the fairish expenditure of the funds of the
,Compauy,
and the object of the act by which it was fined,
teas to chet.k profusion and corrupt practices in In-
,slia. But he would contend, that it yias eqUally'
within the view of the Legislature, to extend the opt-
of the Act to the prevention of such practices
at home, or to any quarter of the Globe where they
might take place. It was an object of the Act to pre-
vent the originating of-any grant with the- Zpard of
4Contioul. tie then insisted that the httiv was a
ipublic document, and not a private communication,
as ha' been maintained by the Gentlemen opposite.
lie proceeded to contepd that the late I.,..trsi
d entitled to compensation, should lave
.re-
4ceived it .by aorote of Parliament as. a servant of the
Crown, and not from the funds of the Company.—
This body and the King's Ministers bad not only se.
palate, but °ton conflicting interests; and he woold
risk a it was tit or decorous that a person who was
planed in the very office of controuling theCom-
piny ought to receive rewards front it? The view
that ttie Court of Directors appeared to take of the.
tommunication was perfectly honourable and con;
aisteut. They resolved that the letter should be sob-
united to a General Court of Proprietors, and having
done this, they d.lemed it their duty to go no farther.
Toe last-mentioned Court, however, decided by
ballot, that the grant should be made; but this did
not change the nature of the application, which was
like canvassing for money, and a precedent for truck.
lug the patronage of the Government for the •patru.
.naive of the Company.. Seth a grant wars peculiarly
iimppropiime at a time-when the Right Honourable
kientietnan connect4l' with the Board of Contronl
r. W.olace) *as passing a Bill through the House
,u prevent tue COmpany 'hem granting annuities to

the Vildows and children of their own Officers LA
servants. It was only two or three Seisions ago
since the Company -came to Parliament, to beg a
ban, and got two millions and a half advanced
to thorn; and it was admitted by those who_ rook
---
the part of the Company, that the latter had by this
Means got a balanced re 900,000 it% their favour ; and
the very next year the Ministers go,to the same Com-
pany whom they had been obliged to bolster up, and
ask them to give £20,000 to one of their friends, at
die very time when they were unable to reward their
own s wants. On the whole, considering the circum-
stances under which the grant had been made, it was
a subject which called loudly for to; expression of the
opinion of Parliament, as a job which was corrupt in
its conception and mischievous in its effects. He
should therefore propose certain Resolutions of cen-
sure on the President of the Board of Controul. 'They
welt., to the effect, that this Nobleman, by the transa-
(il the litet in question, had acted contrary
to the silirit of the Act of the 21ab of his present
M Testy, by on a Grant of Money out of the
Revenues of the Company & that the House could not
view we bout extreme jealousy the lavish expeudithre
of the public money ; and that the conduct of the
President tended to introduce a system contrary to
the interests for which the said Board was established,
and highly prejudicial to the public interests.
The qucstiGn being put,
Mr. WALLACE said, he felt it his duty, with a
sincerity equal to that of the Noble Lord, to oppose
the motion ; as he was of opinion it did not bear the
eharacter, in any respect, which the Noble Lord
had attributed to it. He would insist that the Act
of Parliament had not been violated, and that the
conduct of the Noble Lord had been rearked by no-
thing which was incompatible with the duties of the
situation that he hell. A: to the Letter, he. still
held the opinim he originally entertained of it ; it
was certainly a private and by no means a public
communication. But supposing it were even ac-
knowledged to be a public document, still he would
maintain that the sending of such a letter was in no
respect a violation of the Act. The Noble Lord
seemed to think that there was some prohibition
against the Board of Controul interfering to recom-
mend any grant to be made; but so far from it, no-
thing was more clear than the words of the Act in
this respect. He would agree withahe Noble Lord,
that though the Act goes only to contronl and check
abuses in India, yet any abuses within the range of
the Company's influence came equally under its spi•
rat and meaning. The Noble Lord; however, must
be very little acquainted• with the body to whom that
letter was directed, if he could suppose that any ins-
proper application to them would meet with any
thing but iiiflexible resistance. The :tight Honour-
able Gentleman then took a view of the Act of 179 a,
to thew that it empowered the Board of Controul to
recommend and advise to the Court of Directors pe-
cuniary grants, and that this Board was not esta-
blished merely to check the proceedings of the Coin-
pany, bit to, superintend and confirm whatever re-
lated to their civil and .military operations. As to
the expression of the Noble Lord, that the letter ori-
ginated a grant of money, he denied that it'would do
any such thing, as the money of the Companc could
no more he granted without the consent of the Pio-
prietws, than the money of the public could be
given away by Parliament without the consent of the
House. He would add, that the Board of Controul
was not only permitted by the Act of Parliament to
give such a recommendation as that contained-in t'se
letter, hut it was their duty to do so, as hi this
spect they only gave their best ud vice respecting the
administration of the revenues and of justice. In a
case, for instance, like that of General Gillespie,
whose promptness and valour had possibly saved our
Indian empire, by restoring order and discipline
when the army was in a state of mutiny, he for one
should not think the Board of Controul stepped at all
out of its way, in taking upon itself to recommend
such meritorious exertions to great and munificent
rewards. He denied that the course which had been
pursued liy the Board of Conn-out with respect to
Lord Melville, had been contrary to the letter or the
spirit of the law—he meant that spirit which was
embodied in the letter of it, and he-knew of no other.
The letter of the Earl of Buckinghamshire had been
written in consequence of an application made to him
by Mr. R. Thornton, the President of the East India
Company. In a conversation with the Noble .Lord,
Mr. Thornton had stated,. a vote to Lord Melville
was in contemplation, but before any resolution was
coin to on the subject, he wicked to hear the opinion
of the President of the Board- of Contronl, as it was
very undesirable that such a grant should be made
by the Proprietors. to be subsequently negatived.
On this ground he applied for the opinion of the
Booed of Controul, and the Noble.Lord,avhen asked
the question, had answered with his accustomed
frankness. The answer which be gave. Mr. Thore-
au requested to have in the form of a letter, and this
was the origin of the present most formidable attack.
The 'letter of Lord Buckinghamshire. of which so
much had been said, war written at the desire of the
President of that Body, whose privileges had been
said ao have been in this instance so unjustly invaded;
that which had been complained of as an injury done
to them, had, in fact, been done solely for their con-
venience. He proceeded at some length, to spew
that. there had been no impropriety on the part of the
tart of Buckinghamshire, and that the East, India
Company had lung been in the habit of rewarding,
as they had done in this instance, great national ser-
vices, by which they were benefited. He was so far
from entertaining any dread of the precedent thus
established, that he was decidedly of opinion, the
greatest benefit the East India Company could de-
sire, was that the precedent should animate others to
perform services like those which they thus acknow-
ledged, and he wished for one to see many such
claimants on their generosity. .Atiter summing up
the great services of Lord Melville, during a long
politicallifet in the course of which he had rescued
the affairs of the East India Company out of the
chaos in which they were involved, and brought
them into a flourishing and prosperous state, he con-
cluded, expressing a deterusivation to oppose, the
motion.
Sir J. NEWPORT thought the question before
tae House, and the precedent which it went to esta-
blish, more extensive in itsconseqttences, and ofinuch'
greater importance than any thing merely connected
with the merits or demerits of the late Lord Melville.

e-astr --s--t .li.c the coarse which bairbe.ea pussosd by

4!.

- •
the Sarl of Stickingl4lll44s, in teamnroending it to
the Eastlndia Company to make a ((rant of 420,(100
in consideration ot his (Lord Melville's) servicir.—
It was quite to preeedented that one Cabinet Minister
should recommend his Colleague to a Conamrrci a
Company, to obtain for him pecuniary assistance, as
Lord Buckingh'amshire• had done by the present
Lord Melville. He denied that the services of Lord
Melville had raised' the East India Company to that
state of prosperity which might be supposed, from
hearing the speeclt Of the Hon. Gentleman, and he
(Sir .1. Newport), bad be been in the situation ot the
President of the Board of Controul, he certainly
'could never have brought himself so to recommend
a grant to a colleague, from a Company whose inte-
rests were particularly coutiied to lib care. 11%! had
been surprised to hear the Right Hon. C:entlemait
say Be knew nothing of the spirit of an Act of Par-
liament but from its letter. If such principles gene-
rally regulated the official condnct of that Right
Honourable Gentleman, lie could not be surprised
if his decisions were very different from those which
he (Sir J. Newport) could bring himself to mom- i
mend or sopp
Mr. WHITSHED KEENE observed how little'
our empire in India depended on the physical strength
of this country, independent ot the more powerful
force of moral agency. This strength, the vety
foun.latien of our authority, was owing in a great
measure to the wise and energetic measures pursued
by the late Lord Melville, whom he eulogised as the
greatest benefactor of India. Considering him in
such a light, he had voted originally, as a Proptietor,
for the grant, and he should now oppose every
motion that would tend to question its general po-

licy.— (Hear hear.)
Lord A. HAMILTON .conceived the letter to
bear every mark of publicity that was necessary. It
originated from a public office, was written on a
public subject, and was attended with all the conse.
qtrences and influence of a public communication.—
Regarding it as such, he would consider it the act of
a Minister, and censure it as an improper exercise of

ministerial discretion.
Lord CASTLEREAGH conceived that the
House were not to judge whether the grant was ad-
visable or not ; that question struld he left for those
individual% whose property svzs iiivolved by their
own decision. .He dwelt, with particular emphasis,
on the opinion expressed by Mr. W. Keene, whose
general experience and large property in the India
Stock, entitled him to every attention on the subject.
He contended, that the grant 4 money, in recom-
pense for actual services, wai perfectly consistent
with the " due administration* of the Company's
money, required in the oath of the Commissieners.—
lit this, both the letter and sphit of the Act of Par-
liament completely •concurred. He defended thel
' letter as a...neans *f communicating the sentimentsl
of persons connected with the administration of the
Airs,• end thought that such previous communics-
ion on every meartrie pregnant with the highest
utility. The letter could nut be considered as official,
whether in its origin or consequences; it arose from
a carrel circumstance, and w attended with no
result, for the Court of Directors paid no regard to
it. and the grant of the money was the voluntary
act of the Court of Proprietors. Could it be said
that any undue influence. was exercised over them,
or over the fourteen Gentlemen who subscribed the
Requisition ? As to the favour or affection which
was supposed to influ lice the Board of Controul in'
contravention of their oaths, he denied the supposi-
tion, and considered it a mere colouring thrown over
the entire question. The advice was given conscien-
tiously, and perhaps a similar imputation may be'
thrown on acts Ip:filmed by the Right Hon. Baronet
(Sir John Newport) when in office, yet which were
performed most conscientiously. He concluded by
opposing the mocker.
Sir J. NEWPOKT.--ii If the Noble Lord means
.to make any allusion to any public act of mine, let
him speak it out. Ido not wish to have any thing
concealed."
Lord CA.STLEREAGH....." I did not mean to
allude to any of the Right Hon. Baronet's acts par-
ticularly ; I only said, that a similar false colour.
ing may have been thrown over, similar acts of his
wiser] in office, which were no doubt done consci-
entiously."
Sir J. NEWPORT.—" I never advised givingl
money to my colleagues."
Mr. HOWARTH observed, that the.Nter was •
considered not as originating a grant of money, hut'
as merely recoMmendatory, and that on a very par-
ticularreasoli, the debts of the iste Lord Melville
having fallen on the present. But how did-the Noble
Lord who wrote that letter know of the* private affairs
of Lord Melville ? Was he left executor of the will
`was lie a trustee under it, that be should thus stig-
matise the dead, and paupetize the living ? He re-
marked on the depressed state of the India Company's
finances, of which he drew a very gloomy picture.—
At the time of their coming to the House for assis
once,
,their paper was in a very depreciated state in
Bengal, and they vsere obliged to have recourse to a.
very eetraordinary mode of caking the loan, holdingi
the Treasury open for twelve months, to receive
money horn eve:), quarter... Surely. when the pecu-i
niary situation of the Company was so embarrassed,
the President of the Board of Controul had not paid
a due regard to their interests, when be recommend-
ed such a grant. It was true, a majority of the Pro-
prietors expressed themselves in favour of the grant—
but it was most extraordinary, that none of the worthy
Aldermen (three of whom had voted for it) who
made themselves conspicuous on that occasion, were
now present to state their reasons for the course they
had adopted.
Mr. WALLACE entered into a short statement,
to prove that the pecuniary affairs of the Company
were not so deplorable its the last Speaker had de-
scribed theta to be.
Mr. MARRYATT observed, it was highly b.
nourahle to the late Lord Mer ret
lvipilei, tohiz over t
other
whamsubject
had been taken op by the po
yofinpauireencctoersc,ouwlhdichhe
mexigeritit-
eita7inssnteotad
likelyo fthethCa to
Court
cohncadeidt thee, arrQrirs,
once
etsopokeintchoemhiigngh
have been open to the' suspicion of an improper in-
ttoerfterheevncoet.e
file;ng
sense they entertained of the services of the late
Lord•lielville. and paid a pioper tribute to the vir-
tues of his son • who had undertaken
voluntarily to
discharge his father's debts. He should, oppose the,
• . •

Mr. lON3ONBY said, ai the present 4retuoir
related to the conduct of a N ible Lord (Buckin4
iiiinshire,), in the discharge of his public duty, ilr
felt himself hound to express an opinion on it. L.
mild not think that the course adopteJ by the Poe.
:Went of the flonrd of .0 introul, on this oreateiiiii,
was correct orjusieflihle. If the illerlis of 'the.late
Lord Melville were !to great as they had been repre.
rented, it was very string -, that neiT fo the Court
of Directors, nor the Court of Proprietors, had nor
Riced them—and by a spontaneous and v i o litany
act, granted that remuneration, for past ben, fiirie
which had since originated with the Board of c„R.
trout. It was said, that, in recommending this
vote, the Board of Controul had committed lib vi,,.
lotion either of the letter or spirit of the Act. Tile
letter of the Act was not invaded; hot, lie tv.s LI
no means satisfied, that its spirit was Fp t violitcd
Our of the provisions
Al
.that Act went to prevms
the Boyd of ,Contreul from originating or.u.its 01
money ; anothet rendered necessary for the Corn.
pany, where they made a grim of mote than 47.0
a ye;,r, to submit it to, the Board of Control,' for their
approbation. From this it appeared, that one of the:
principal (bales of that Board was, to sop, ,aitmli
and it necessary, ro correct, the ex rerid i i ure of trp,ney
by the Court of Directens. It did appiar, to Lim,
that the grant now in question was riot given-for 0:a
se: vices of the Lite L !rd Melv.lle:
his veliie.im
bttttliattit.l i
twast
waslf
lv) y e
rwas
' 3fthose tiuw 0
made for the convenience of the presentoLrotridie.
die.o
the merits of the late Lord Melville .re so great,
tt x
nteitargrdailititar ay to u'.
tit
in
long
icircumstances, h:tore the Comp iil
crather
felt his merits to be such as to call for tiiis lac:,
sum. Here he begged to observe, that the circtini.
stances i f the late Lord Melville ought not to over ,;e
in a case of this kind. For had he been the ricliest
man in the community, he might have pliorturia
those services which called (or t.nittneratioo—and it
would have been equally proper to have offered the
reward, thus earned, although probably it w mid LI
have been accepted. It was said, that the letter et
the Noble Lord in this case, did not i II .uence ille
East India Company. He k iew the letter did iiiit
contain any tiling that could strictly be called matter
of itillaence, as it respected the Directors or Propne.
tors. But could any m in, candidly speaking, thitek
that the saggestion or recommendation of Lie Presi.
dent of the B card of Controul, urging, as he did, the
Cout C of p;rectGrs to do something fur the late Lord
Melviile's family, would have no ant/Routd wit
a document be.reccived, without produciti some ktc.
gree of influence ? It was, however, observed, 6t
this letter had not induced the 1) rectors to do fee
act recommended, 'since that act originated in vi
Court of Proprietors. This was perfectly true—ti
papers proved the fact. But why did. not the l'i
prietors perform this act, &/:r.! the letter was g-at
the Chairman of ',he Court of Directors? It a.
competent tar them to have proceeded iXf re, S wt
.!S .otter the receipt of that Ritter. baited, had el
voted this sum of money, in ea: first iitsta:tee, :
~;rant wield hive coax witu a Much lieut.+ gull
It would then at,Fear tai have erigitiated w
ikemselves, and not to have arisen Isom oliediet
to the dircctions of a I ighor power. 11.2 felt
very great person LI resp ct for the Noble Lord
the head of the lioord of Contionl, but, in t:
instance, his interference Was by no means ce fro
lie nos almost the last Mali who tug et to hi
mad_ such a wio{tcli,,n route Z'oui i of Ihrectors.
.ifhe Noble Lord (Casa:re:4lh) argued, 'll4 dr,
was no more impropiety in a mutual common'
Lion between the Board of C row! and the Cour:
Directors, than there was in a cononureication
tween the two Houses of Vdri14111:11i. this UJI
very uufortunate illustration of the Noble Lot
proposition. The diff.rent par sof the C-nstitte
wee.: independent of each other—and, when a ct
mottle:Own took place between the taco liotiei
Parliament, it was between par tes who wire er;
and who were perfectly independent. But, is
present instance, the communication was betweeii.i
parties, one of vellOat was appointed to shoe.:
control the other, and who must, conserioeiltl), i
sess a very • considerable influence. 'foe co,
which had been adopted, reminded him of a st,s,ry
had somewhere read.—A Mat, tra% oiling tai
i along a road, suddenly heard a cry ol—" ije':.to
' or the Jove of Goo !" toed he sees lying Le! ..):e
in the path-way, a hat. Looking about I.;in, to
./.
cover from whom this cry of " Cliari,.y" cm-4
observes a musket pointed towards tom, out
neighbouring hedge. On making this Li Kovery,
very prudently throws his moi.cy into rd:c hat,
I though no pmson had held out any direct dire.
compel him to the act. So it was in t! e present ci
The Board of Control, no chebt, without any ide
iiifluencing the East India Compar y, suggest, e
commend, a certain grant to be made ; :11.41 the ,
prietors, being charitably and kindly disposed (tIIG.
not so unanimously us might have been aspecte:
a charitable occasion, there being 'ISO agaii;:t
vote, and 455 for it), in compliance with this
gestion, or recommendation, agree to part with a
large sum. (Laughter.)
Mr. BATHURST observed, that the concl
illustration of the tight Hon. Gentleman wit
icularly unhappy. In the case lie had mentioned.
tear of personal danger operated on the travel;
but, from the unloaded state of the arms made G
by the Board of Centro'. no opptehenricn w!!,E
could be entertained by the Coui t of Proprietor
1 The Right lien. Gentleman :Isked, why some
had not been taken, for the remuneration ot
j'Melville during his life ? The fact was, the I
pang had grained Win a pension, payable as tai
their late Charter existed ; and the anereat tv
continuation of that grant, arising from the et
tossed state in which he Nit his affairs. The 1
Hon. Gentleman then defended the propriety ol
grant, which, lie argued, was no more lial:le
jection than that which was C011:el red no ibe pi
Lord Cornwallis, for the services palm-null
rather ; auclooncludedbyexprioising liLs hostility
motion.

The House then divided—when there arp"
Par the Motion 30—Against it 86--MsjefitY
The Board (A Longitude was read a brit,
ordered :to be read second time to-tnotrow.
The Tobacco Drawbacks fill was read a sel
time, and ordered to be committed
Ml Fria,'
The CHANCELLOR of EXCHEQL;
brought in a Bill, " for granting to bis j:SI,Y