Star.
London, England, 1822-04-25 00:00:00

• "',"m..‘111F:77,-"'"'•-•^11

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process,.
CM. In a constitutional point. of view it was also
objectionable. It gave an infidels:eta theTieasurf,
over all species of property, which it never ought TO
It was strange that such a system should
rave 1 grown up in a free cotmtry,where the laws were
so cautious and deliberate regarding transactions be-
tween debtor and creditor. For his own part he
should have every confidence in the Law Officers of
the Crown, if the subject was one which came under
their especial care. But it was to the Treasury that
he addressed himself, and he was quite certain that
his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer could not say that there existed any necessity
for continuing the system of Extents in Aid. The
Report to which he had alluded would supply- evi-
dence against its necessity from a very respectable
Solicitor of Excise, who, being questioned as to the
probability of the revenues of the Crown suffering
by a disuse of those measures, answered, that he
conceived they would be collected much better with-
out them. He then proceeded to give his reasons for
ahinhing.so,which were, that the suing out of Extents
in Chief, in the second instance, would come under
his own direction. The Hon. Member concluded by
lappealing to the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, if he valued the support and confidence
of the Petitioners, and if he wished for the preser-
vation of loyalty among them, not to allow rapine
and violence to be exercised under the sanction of the
prerogative of the Crowns
Mr. J. SMITH expressed his accordance with the
sentiments of the Petitioners. He would ask whe-
ther it was proper that any practice should exist
which put the whole property of the country at the
mercy of the Crown? He hoped the Right Hon.
the Chancellor of the Exchequer would consider
their case, and afford relief to 'those who suffered
under the present system.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was
very far from wishing to object to the Petition, and
he was equally willing that the subject should re-
ceive, in and out of the House, every consideration.
What pressed upon him, as being particularly opposed
to any alteration in this process was, his extreme re-
luctance, as a servant of the Crown, to do anything
which would touch upon its ancient prerogatives, so
wisely settled upon it by our ancestors. If that prero-
gative had been, or should be abused, there was a
remedy against the offenders in the Courts of Justice.
Mr. W. SMITH thought that the process in ques-
tion was a prerogative vested in the Crown for the
protection of the interests of the subject through the
Crown. He had upon a former occasion obtained a
Committee upon the subject, and no man could read
the Report made by that Committee and not be con-
vinced that it was quite unnecessary to continue the
law as it now stood for any purposes of security to
the collection of the Revenue. The year before that
Report was made there bad been 220 Extents in Aid
issued, and in consequence of the proceedings in Par-
liament in the following year the number of cases
sunk almost to nothing. They had since been in-
creasing, and in the last year they amounted to forty.
Of these be would defy any person to say that there
was one in which the interest of the Crown was in
the remotest degree concerned. If something were
not done by the Treasury he should again bring the
subject before the House.
Sir J. BOWIE expressed his hope that the matter
of the Petition would receive the most serious consi-
deration of Parliament.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL wished to observe,
that when he heard it said that Extents in Aid were
not necessary to the-security of the Revenue, he must
state, that such a conclusion was widely different
from that drawn by persons who were best informed
upon the subject. By such persons, the process in
question was considered to be essential to its secure
collection. There were no particular abuses pointed
nut by the Petitioners, and therefore he could not see
what they required. As far as he was concerned, if
any species of abuse were pointed out, he should
be most willing to assist in removing and remedying
them, either by new laws, or by enforcing existing
regulations. He should enter into no further dis-
cussion upon the present occasion, but if the question
came before them in a regular shape, he should be
prepared to meet it.
Mr. HUME said, that if the exercise of the prero-
gative wat bad, its antiquity had nothing to do with
it. He contended, that the use of Extents in Aid was
unjust and unnecessary. They were not used in Scot-
land, and the Revenue of this country required no
further protection than that of Scotland.
Mr. P. MOORE supported the Petition.
Mr. DENMAN said, that the system itself held
out such an P- ,xragement to abuse, that it ought
be ‘- down. There - ibi.

to completely put s was no possit.
lity of obtaining redress by representing any indivi-
dual cases of abuse ; the only remedy was to sweep
away the whole system altogether.
After a few further observations from Mr.W. SMITH,
the Petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. HILL presented a similar Petition from the
Iron-masters of the County of Salop.—The Petition
was ordered to be printed.
MR. HUNT.

Petitions were presented from Salisbury, Norwich,
Rothbury, Halifax, and another place, praying for a
remission of the remainder of Mr. Hunts sentence.
The Marquis of TICHFIELD presented a similar
Petition from the Borough of Lynn. The Petitioners
considered that Mr. Hunt was entitled to compensa-
tion for Ms sufferings, and they particularly dwelt
upon the severity of his sentence. They also begged
to remind the House that it had already renfitted
pan of the sentence of one individual, alluding to the
case of Sir Manasseh Lopez. Notwithstanding the
.respect which he entertained for the opinion of his
.e.onstitsaents, the Noble Lord declared that he did not
agree in all theirAonclusions. He did not see • that
his Maiesty's Ministers had acted improperly in re-
commending the prosecution of Mr. Hunt. Neither
could, he believe the Jude: to have been actuated
by any desire but that of giving an adequate punish-
ment in proportion to the offence of which the pri-
soner had been found guilty. At the same time, the
punishment he bad received had been thought greater
than was contemplated bythe sentence, mid he thOught
that the two yaw+ imprisonmegh with the increased

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had suffered consideratity
him by his sentence, he thought the HomeDepart-
mentimperatively called upon for its interference.
Mr. WYNN said, he did not wish t• anticipate the
approaching discussion upon this topic, but be could
not allow one of the allegations in the Petition to
pass without its being immediately contradicted.--
That Howl did not interfere with the sentence'of Sir
Manasseh Lopez. A motion was submitted for that
purpose; bat if it had not been withdrawn, it was his
firm belief that it would have been negatived.
Mr. BENNET said, that the motion was certainly
withdrawn, but that it was with an implied under-
standing that the case should receive the considera-
tion of Government. He knew this to be the case,
because he was a party to the understanding.
Mr. PEEL was present at the debate in question,
and he never heard a word about any understanding
or comprothise. He distinctly understood the reverse.
Besides which, that was a case peculiar in its charac-
ter; and the very grounds upon which the inter-
ference of the House was recommended were, its
having originated the proceedings against the indivi-
dual; and the offence having been committed•espe-'
cially against it.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH was willing to allow
that there was no assurance given on the part of Gl-
vernment that Sir M. Lopez should be liberated: that
could not he the case. But as to the understanding.,
he would venture to say that there was not one Mem-
ber then present who did not feel that there was an
intention of extending the Itoyil mercy to the indi-
vidual in que,tion.
Mr. WYNN distinctly remembered that the mo-
tion was rejected, upon the ground of the impropriety
of interfering ‘‘itli the prerogative of the Crown;
and that it expressly stated that there was nothing
implied, directly or indirectly, as to the remission of
the sentence.

Mr. BROUGHAM knew that an implied agree-
ment was expressly disavowed at the time ; but there'
was not one single Member who left the House after
what he heard upon that occasion, who retained the
least vestige of doubt that the unfortunate individual
would be released. It only requited that Ministers
should pursue the same course that night which they
did upon the former occasion, and he had no doubt
but that his Honourable Friend, the Member for
Westminster, would follow the example of his Noble
Friend (Lord J. Russell) and withdraw his motion.
The Marquis of TICHFIELD said, that from
what payed, he considered that there was such an
understanding as had been alluded to. And ai he
and the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) were then
on the same side, the authority of one was as good
as that of the other. The words which fell from the
Noble Marquis at the time were, as far as he could
recollect, that he gave no positive assurance to the
House, but that if the motion were withdrawn, he
would undertake that the matter should be considered.
The Right Honourable Gentleman had now changed
his situation, and had much better means of informa-
tion than he; but he was quite sure that if the Noble
Marquis (Londonderry) were present, he would bear
him out in his statement of what had fallen from
him at the time.

Mr. WYNN expressed his surprise at the Noble
Marquis seeming to consider that he was not at full
liberty to state his opinions because a change had
taken place in his position—(A laugh).—lie had stated
what he remembered to have heard on the debate in
question, and he possessed no other means of infor-
mation than those which were as common to the
Noble Lord as to himself.

The Marquis of TICHFIELD said, that the Right
Hon. Gentleman had completely misunderstood him.
All he said was, that he was as good an authority as
to what passed upon the occasion alluded to as the
Right Hon. Gentleman; because it was previous to
his change, and they then sat on the same side.
Mr. WYNN was at a loss to know what the Noble
Lord meant by change—(A laugh).—lle had fre-
quently said that he was ready to defend every part
of his conduct, and he only wished that the Noble
Lcrd would give him an opportunity of doing so,
instead of throwing out vague hints which could not
be replied to—(Hear, hear, hear).
Mr. DENMAN said, that the parties who were
alone competent to speak to the existence of any
im-
plied understanding, were, the Noble Marquis at the
head of the Government, and the Noble Lord who
brought forward the motion. The Noble Marquis
was absent—(Lord John Russell entered the name
at this moment),—but lie now saw a Noble Witness
at the Bar, who could give them good evidence upon
the disputed pointy—The Petition was then ordered
to be printed.
Upon the presentation of the Halifax Petition,
• Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose and stated, that as
he had so recently entered the Reuse, he could not
be in possession of what had passed so perfectly as
he could wish ; but he understood the question to
be, whether an expectation was entertained that the
liberation of Sir M. Lopez would be granted in con-
sequence of his withdrawing the motion which he
thought proper to submit to the House. Now the
impression upon his mind was, that his object had
been very much furthered by the motion ; but he
' could not from his recollection say that anything
fell from his Majesty's Ministers farther than •an as-
isurance that the motion should be no impediment to
the consideration of the case in question—(//ear,
hear).—Although he could only tecollect these words,
yet the impression upon his mind when he left the
House was, that the imprisonment of Sir M. Lopez
would not be of long duration.

LIBERATION OF MR. AUNT.

Sir FRANCIS BURDETT then rose, and said
that after the number of Petitions which had been
presented to the House upon the subject on which he
was about to address it, and in favour of the motion
he was about to make, and after the able*manner in
which they had been supported—one in particular,
presented by a Noble Lord connected with a. part of
the county of Nottingham—he felt considerable em-
barrassment, because that Noble Lord had taken and
occupied those grounds upon which he was contented
to rest his ease. Ile felt particular anxiety for the'
fate of the present question, inasmuch as it deeply.
affected the interests of the Public) as well as those 01

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who was the sulieet of it,
met with a favobrable
the Members of that Howe. His
to obtain the liberation of Mr. Hunt from
confinentient, because it was under circiun.
.hich rendered it already adequate to the
intended by the Court which had sett_
him. Up to the present moment,, he 44
trusted that Ministers would of themselves have taken
the course which would have rendered h unnecessary
for the House to be troubled with the question ; *tut
he confessed that he was somewhat surprised that
they had not availed themselves of the opportunity
to advise an act which could be no less grateful to
the feelings of histklajesty than it would he to those
of the people at large. With regard to the supper
fur which he looked, he would oluerve, that although
he was aware of the difficulty attending Ministerial
trammels and Parliamentary tactics; )et, notwith.
standing that difficulty, he trusted he shoald hare the
able support of the Right Honourable Gent:emaa
opposite (Mr. Nel). Upon that support he was tha
more disposed to calculate, as on a recent occasion,
when he had thought it necessary to represent ts, the
Right Honourable Gentleman the cases of two res.
-sons who had been convicted for some offence corn.
mitted in the North, and who had good character t.)
offer in mitigation of punishment, that Right limos-.
able Gentleman had given the most powerfal as(
humane attention to their cases, and had been the
means of alleviating their situation. For this cos.
duct of the Right lionourable Gentleman he had not
thought it necessary to make any formal acknow-
ledgment, because he had considered it sure; flusas
to notice an act of humanity and integrity, which, in
the life of the Right lion. Gentleman, could never he
thought either conspicuous or extraordinary. To
sustain the motion which he intended to lay before
the House, he found that he was not compelle,! to
impugn the sentence on Mr. Hunt. If he satisfied
the House that the sentence itself was severe enough
for the offence, and that the mode of carrying it into
effect had been more severe than the Court which
passed the sentence intended it to be, then he flat-
tered himself he should have the assistance of the
Right Hon. Gentleman ; but, at all events, he thotight
Mr. Hunt was entitled to the thanks of the Public,
for having occasioned the investigation respecting
Ilchester jail, the result of which was before the
House in the Commissioners Report. In or -a at
prove his first proposition, that the sent.• s. on
Mr. Hunt was amply severe, it became n say
for him to advert to the charges against Mt. Huns
In the indictment against that gentleman there ':ere
a great number of counts, containing charges from
the highest degree of guilt to the lowest, and the
Jury acquitted him of all the greater charges, ars!
had, after five hours con-ide,ation, teturned a Yes-
diet against him upon the least of all. And here la
could not but observe on the hardship attending the
practice of prefet ring charges for the greater as tvll
as for the lesser offences in one and the same itaii:o
ment. The law in this respect might be, not toiaptly,
compared to those acts of fishermen which were
forbidden. The nets in question, he obsess-0,
were calculated to catch the large fish as well as e
smallest fry ; and indictments of the nature ne 2:•
hided to were a.species of net containing the lea -awl
meshes ; so that when the legal net was thrsvoi over
the unhappy defendant it was scarcely possible Is:
him to escape. In one of the smaller meshes M-.
Hunt had been caught: He bad been Intim] guilty on
the count containing in point of enormity the least
of the several charges; but if he bad been found
guilty upon every count, he (Sir Francis) thought
that a sentence of a year and a half of imp: isonment
would amply have satisfied the justice of this case;
the guilt was at the least of a lesser degree. Indeed,
in point of mind and of intent, Mr. Hunt was inna-
cent of all clime ; and it was a legal maxim that to
constitute a crime the mind must concur wi:h the
act. The Magistrates of Manchester did not protest
against the meeting for attending which Mr. Hunt
had been convicted; although they had protested
against one which had been advertised a few days
befcre. Indeed, up to the present moment, he de-
clared he was at a loss to know is hat was the offence
which Mr. Hunt had committed ; hut sshatever was
the offence the sentence was quite sufficient to answer
all the ends of justice. But, it this sentence was called
for by the offence contained in the particular taunt
on which Mr. Hunt had been convicted, he really
should like to know what would be the necessary pu-
nishment if he had been convicted upon the whole of
the indictment. The entire life of Mr. Hunt would
not have furnished matter for punishment, unless in-
deed he were to live to the age of Metratsehda
and unless the life of the Reverend Dr. Cou stun
were prolonged to an equal extent to emits e him
to be the visiting Magistrate of the prison—(Hear).—
He should not go at length into matters which might
be considered as in some degree extraneous ; and as
the subject arising out of the Ilchester Jail would come
before the House. in the shape of a specific motion.
he should touch upon it very shortly. He would first
call the attention of the House to what took place
when the sentence upon Mr. Hunt was passed. Mr.
Hunt, with great readiness of mind, asked if the im-
prisonment was intended to be solitary ? and the
Judge answered, "By no means." Shortly after-
wards, it was stated, he believed in that House, that
Ilchester Jail WAS the healthiest prison in England,
and that it was upon such account that Mt. Hunt
had been sent there. It was now proved, that it wai
the most unhealthy and ill managed ; and it theta-
fore followed that the Court had not intended to send
Mr. Hunt to such a prison. One of the Membersfss
the County of Somerset had admitted that Mr. Hunt
ought to have every indulgence consistent with ins
sate custody. Now all the charges of severiiy, brought
by Mr. Hunt against the jailer, had been proved; and
as his punishment had been increased in sutfetance,
it ought- to be lessened in duration. Mr. Hunt, a
appeared, had been taken to a part of the jail callel
the North Ward, wherein, for five months in the year,
the sun Myer shone at all ; and when he Old shine lm:s
rays were an annoyance, for local et: cutustances
caused the light to be a reaming light, winch was
very distressing to the eyes. Air. Hunt's e) es had as
(Sir Francis) understood suffered very mater lady front
this -cause, and would never recover their former
strength.. The place in which he was dirscly con-
fined was too large for a cell, and certainly too small
for a room. When he first entered it there were two
truck beds, and two prisoners in it, who were do-
tined to be his companions; And Quo of them was

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him might be it Whereto miligent in 4 llo.4oft wipe* than equal tt_ tbatvto yearn and a the individual wh
e of lowed upon
the bleb of an aedlwary biutkruptay, the- 'half wit tulle should not, the More, tecommend lieved, • already
the,' eenvequencetwere still more depinetablu, for tt rubbed *of Mr. Hoot as a matter of favour, hut nl among some of I
ken tbe remaining erweitors of their last. shr of-kbti, ogle& He was ems Who would never intinfets with object was to ohti
:on- bankrupt's property. These were the taw efects of the decisions of the Coasts of Justice, without the his present confine
ice, the process, and its risen] drifts WO* no less griev. most obvious necessity. As the prisouerin this cise statices which Tel
. _.___, __:_...c ..:..- :. .... aisn had sufered considerably more than was awarded to punishment inten

and had, he
ble reception
Ilou•e. Ills
r. Hunt from •
ander circurn.
mutate to the
hich had sett_
neat,, he 44
Fes have taken
it unnecessary
luestion ; and
iurprised that
oppettllnity
tss grateful to
id he to those
o the supper •
that although :
ng Ministerial
)et, notwith.
lotild hare the
de (iein:emmt
In he svas the
cent occasion,
•present tr. the
of two per.
offence corn,.
d character t,)
Light llonou-.
powerfal au.{
had been the
For tl,is cm.
an he had not
rmal acknow_
it suret flurls3
rity, which, j,
:ould never be
Ordinary. To
before
to
el
;evere enough
If tco°hmelaPysealbeti iesffi;
arrying it into
e Court which
, then he fin- I •
sietance of the
nts, he thunght