Star.
London, England, 1809-04-26 00:00:00

of duty imperiously called upOn him to urge these
considerations on the attention of the House.
Mr. BANKES, adverting to what had fallen from
the Noble Lord (Hamilton), observed, that the duty
of the Committee was merely to examine into abuses,
and report their proceedings. The Hon. Member
alluded to certain accounts in some of the public
prints, ha which not even the Royal Family had es-
caped observation—(Near, hear !) --He meant the
Duke of Cambridge—so far from having any patro-
nage, he had not the most distant knowledge of the
transaction therein stated. A person still higher, the
first subject in the realm, had not been spared, and it
became the House to set a mark upon such proceed-

ings.—(Loud crit.r rf Hear, /war!)
Sir FRANCES BURDETT, at that hour of the

night, and after the very able speech of the Noble
Lord who had opened the debate, as well as the able
speeches of many Gentlemen below him upon the
floor, did not mean to trespass at any length upon
the attention of the House. At the same time the
question was in itself of such importance, and so much
had been said in extenuation of the case, founded upon
the admission of the Noble Lord, and some observa-
tions which had fallen from the Honourable Gentle-
man who had just sat down, were such, that he was
induced to trespass a short time upon the indulgence
of the House, even at that late hour. If it had not
been for the general gravity of that Honourable Gen-
tleman, and the serious manner in whiam :tie had pro-
duced these observations to the House, he should have
supposed that there had been something ludicrous in
his statement from the effect it appeared to have pro-
duced upon the faces of the Right Honourable Gen-
tlemen opposite. With respect to the question be-
fore the House, he could not see any objection to the
original Resolutions proposed by the Noble Lord.—
As to the objections which had been taken to the se-
cond Resolution, that it was not founded in fact, he
must observe, that though it was not exactly made out
by the evidence, yet it would be very easy to amend it;
because the fact was, that the negociation had actu-
ally failed, in consequence of the inferior agents not
having been able to accomplish what they had un-
dertaken. It had been argued, that if the Noble Lord
had been aware of the character of Mr. Reding, or
had an opportunity of again turning his attention to
the transaction, it could never have taken place. But
it would indeed have been surprising if the Noble
Lord should not have broken off the business in the
event of his having discovered the character of a man
who was endeavouring to trick him. The Honourable
Gentleman who had just sat down had thought pro-
per to make an allusion to a set of persons, what per-
sons he could not tell, who wet e busy and ever
active is decrying all the rank, and running down-
all that was eminent in the State. Ile had often
heard complaints made in that House against
unniators and libellers, but highly as he valued
the privileges of Parliament, he knew of no pri:
vilege that would entitle any Member to calumniate
any class of his Majesty's subjects. (Hear, hear!)
1-1:, knew of no right that any Gentleman could claim
to utter misrepresentations against whole classes of the
people of England, especially when so much mischief
was likely to result from such calumnies going forth;
to the public. It was peculiarly hard that such a
course should be adopted : it was particularly so at
a moment too, when, (as he must be permitted to
state, even within the walls cf that House), the chaa
racter of Parliament did not stand as high in the
country as it ought. Under such circumstances, he
thought it unfortunate for that House, as well as inju-
rious against the British Public, to calumniate any
class oil the people of England, by whom, so far as
his observation enabled him to judge, such calum-
nies were wholly unmerited. Having made these
observations, he would leave it to the House to judge
how unfair it was to deal out insinuations against
whole classes of the people, or whether it would not
have been more candid and manly to name the per-
sons at once to whom such observations were applied?
He was convinced, upon the result of all that he had
an opportunity cf observing, that there was no set of
men in this country disaffected to the Government ;
and to make an assertion that there was, would
be as injuriou.; to the pee*, as it would be unser-
viceable to the Throne, and hostile to the constitution
and the country. He had attended particularly to
every thing that had been said by the Noble Lord in
his defence, and whatever difference of opinion might
appear to exist in the House as to the degree of his
guilt, it appeared to him to be an aggravated case.
It appeared to him to be an abuse of the patronage
of a Minister with a view to make an attack upon
the independence of Parliament. If a Minister were
proved guilty of such an offence, was the House not
to say that he was so guilty ? It was not now a cues-
tion of punishment ; cr if the removal of the Noble
Lord from office was to be considered a punishment,
this was the first time that he ever heard of its being
a punishment CO be out of office. The Noble Lord'
had said that his object was, in disposing of this wri-
tership, to procure support for Government, that is,
for the Administration, because that was the way in
which he confounded the Government with the Ad-
ministration. But as the Noble Lord had given
them to understand that he would still think that
a justifiable mode of disposing of his patronage,
it was the duty of that House to guard against
such aLt.ses. The patronage of the State was the
property
,of the public, ans.; ought to be fairly ami
impartiahy distributed amongst the people. If
nisters had attendeu more to this principle, and less
to the practice of their particular connections, there
would have been a benefit to the public service, and
certainly less disgust existin,e, out of doors at the man-
ner in which his patronage had het n • I d• •
nt ierto isposeu
of. The Noble Lord had complained, in some mea-
cure, that he had been convicted solely upon his own
evidence ; but he would leave it to the Howe to de-
cide whether there could have been stronger evidence
product d ? But whilst the Ni:hle LoLl rested so
much rn the circum,tance that his conviction was ra,t
supported by any evidence bat his own admission, he
bad still endeavoured to maintain that there had been!
nathiog blameable in the transaction, as he wished only
to bring his friend into Parliament, that he might:
have his assistance in their common department.—
That statement was sufficient alone to skew that these
resolutions ought to be passed. If the Noble Lord
could pervert his official Patronage for the purpose of I
bringing a friend into Parliament, that was, in his
mind, a heavy offence, such as, he was convinced,
that House would consider no other heavier. The
RightHonourable Gentleman bad complained that the

Honourable Gentleman on the floor (Mr. W. Smith)
had made an allusion to the transactions in which the
Noble Lord had been concerned at the timeoftheUnion.
He could not see any hardship in such allusion, when
the Noble Lord and his friends laid se much stress
upon the purity of his motives. It was natural, in
answer to such a defence, to refer to transactions that
would shew that such purity of motives could not
easily be imputed to that Noble Lord. It might be
urged against him as a want of candour, but he could
not conceal that he did net give the Noble Lord muck
credit for purity of motives. He should still continue
-to watch with that jaundiced or jealous eye, which
bad been sometimes imputed to him, all the conduct.
of that Noble Lord ; and having caught him -in one
instance tripping, he should therefore jealously ob-
serve his future measures. It had been contended,
that the offence in this instance was not as heinous as
the taking a bribe at an election : but the House
would never by its vote upon the present question,
sanction the opinion, that it was ready always to pu-
nish the petty offenders in retail, at the same time that
it passed over this wholesale trade in corruption with-
out animadversion. The Noble Lord had -stated,
that if the transactions had proceeded, he would have
taken care that none but a proper person should be
appointed. But the law does not allow any man,
however proper, to be promoted far a bribe. Yet,
had not the Noble Lord pointed out the particular
political principles which his proper person was to en-
tertain ? Had he net described the connections, and
mentioned the support that was to be expected from
him and them ? 'Would the connection of any Gen-
tleman, who, in the performance of his duty in that
House, should oppose the Noble Lord, have been a
proper person, according to his idea of such a one as
he should deem a fit object of his patronage ? It was
this gross partiality in the selection of objects, and the'
sill grosser motives that guided the selection, that he
looked upon as the most dangerous circumstances in
giving to any Minister the unlimited disposal of the
Patronage they possessed. Every • thing, therefore,
sheaved how necessary it was to pass the Resolu-
lutions of the Noble Lord. Some Gentlemen had'
taken occasion, and very properly taken occasion in
this discussion, to make some observations upon the
necessity of a Parliamentary Reform. His o el-, opi-
nion upon that subject was well known, and he was
convinced that nothing could tend more to shew the
necessity of such a measure, than if that House shoeld
pass from these Resolutions to the Orders of the
Day. In supporting the Resolutions, he was cer-
tainly most disinterested ; because he was most sin-
cerely a friend to reform. He should be happy to
see reform brought forward by his Majesty's Minis-
ters, because in such hands it would be productive of
as much good as would spring of mischief from the
blind resistance to practical reform proceeding from
any other quarter. He would particularly, therefore;
rejoice to see his Majesty's Ministers bring forwar
a plan of reform, which would come with grace from
them, and be received with gratitude by the people.
The opinion of the necessity of a reform in Parliament
was at present so general, the only difference prevailing
upon the subject being only as to the precise plan,
that some Reform must necessarily take place. This
was particularly desirable at this time, when com-
mittees of that House were every day bringing to
light abuses that were concealed from view ; when
the weight of the taxes were only to be equalled by
the severity of their collection, when what was gran.
ted liberally was expended prodigally, and when
there appeared no disposition to retrench unnecessary
expenditure. Under such circumstances a Reform
was essentially necessary, and at such a moment he
regretted that any Gentleman of such respectability
as the Honourable Gentleman, and who had reeder-
ed such important services too in the various Corn-
mittees of that House, should have spoken of a class
of the people of this cenntry, in such a manner, that,
with ell his respect for him, he must say, he bad
grossly misrepresented them. But the Honourable
Gentleman said, that the Noble Lord ought not to
he punished, because the offence had not been com-
pleted. But the question was not then a question of
punishment. All that was proposed was, to guard
against his Majesty's Ministers future conduct ; —it
was only proposed to provide, that similar effects
should not in future arise from similar causes : and
the more especially, as it had been that night admitted
and argued on their side, that the corrupt abuse of
Patronage in support of Administration was not
blameable. It behoved that House to shew to the
public that it was not inattentive to its interests ; and
to guard its own character from the imputation that
whilst it punished petty offenders in detail, it was re-
luctant to inflict the same punishment upon an Offen-
ding Minister. Was not the Plymouth tinman's case
in the recollection of the House ; and with such an
example before their eyes, could they hesitate to vote
the .Resithitions against the Noble Lord ? Complaints
had been vented against the press, but if men of rank
would do their duty, they might bid defiance to the
press. It was not their rank, but their vices that pro-
voked the animadversions of the press, which would
ever be ready to pay the tribute of its admiration to
their virtues. Were they not to cure their deformities,
but to endeavour toleit out the eyes of the nation,
that it may not behold them ? In this thinking, this
rational, this reflecting country, they had but to do ,
thcir duty, and they should insure the approbation
of their countrymen. If any plan of reform should be
proposed, he besought the House to entertain it with
temper, and abstain from all imputation of disaffec-
tion to those who may propose it. He should not de-
tain the House longer, but should most certainly vote
for the Resolutions of the Noble Lord.
Mr. GEORGE JOHNSTONE inclined to the
opinion of Mr. Banker, and would willingly adopt
the principle of Mr. Hume, who advised moderation
as the best guide in politics.
Mr. IL LASCELLES imagined that the case of
the Noble Lord was somewhat similar to one in which
Mr. Pitt had been placed, by granting money with-
out the consent of Parliament. The thing was irre.
gular, though it was evidently intended for the good
of the country. The intention of the Noble Lord, no
doubt, was the same ; but still it was proper to m.uk
the irregularity of the transaction.
Mr. iVINDHAM thought the mode of proceeding
proposed against the Noble Lord was severe out of
all proportion to the offence ; a distinction should be
Made between the act and the principle; and the of 7
fence and the offender. If the House passed to the
Order of the Day, they would seem to pass over the
transactio% unnoticed; if they adopted the Resat-

. •

tion, they would vote a pnnishment-beyond the mea-
sure of the crime. Did not individuals exert influence
atelections ; and were Ministers the only persons to
be precluded from exerting such influence e That in-
fluence consisted in property, in connection, perhaps
was resolrible ultimately into money; but should it
be less fair to use it in support of Gpi►ernment, than
to exert it in opposition to Government ? Besides, in
the present instance the Act was only inchoate, and
had never been completed. It therefore did not fur-
nish matter to criminate the Noble Viscount. He
was far from believing that the number of those were
few who looked for reform, which in accomplishing,
it was acknowledged that the people did not well
know where to begin or where to end, as the observa-
tion would be found to be just. In his opinion, the
moment a single brick was taken from the edifice, the
whole would tumble to the ground, and parliamen-
tary reform would be found to close in universal re-
volution. _

Mr. WHITBREAD, in an able and eloquent
spcech, supported the Resolutions, animadverted on
what had fallen from the • Honourable Gentleman 1
(Mr. Bankes), and expressed his conviction that the
proceedings of the former night, as well as those of-i
the present, would do more to convince the people of :
the necessity of reform than any thing else.
Mr. CANNING, however he might feel for hisj.
Noble Friend, yet was disposed to think that some
sort of reproof must attach upon him, He moved an
amendment to the following effect :
" That it is the duty of this House to watch over the purity of
elections with a jealous eye; that, upon due consideration of die
evidence produced before the House, It did not appear that Lord
Viscount Castlereagh had used any undue influence in the election
of Members ; the House, therefore, did not think it necessisry
to come to any criminal proceedings upon the subject."
Mr. TIERNEY supported the Resolutions.
Sir C. PRICE said a few words in Favour of Mr.
Canning's resolution, and leord A. H4MI.L.TOPI
replied,
The House then divided upon the gesolu•
tions— Ayes 167, Noes 216—,-Majority 49.
A second division took place* pn Mr. CANNING'S
amendment—Ayes 214., Noes 167• Majority 47.
During tie exclusion pf strangers, we understood
Mr. C. WYNNE moved an amendment to Mr. CAN-
NING'S proposition, by Inserting the following—.
" Being coat med in our opinion- by the acknowledgment of
that Noble Lord, and by the contrition he has expressed for kis
offence."

T 1 is amendment was negatived.

CONDUCT OF 1%41N15T47.R.1 IN PROCURING BOATS IN
PARIfAMF4T.
Mt. MADDOCKS gave notice that be should, on Friday se'n-
night, rno,.e for a Committee of the whole House, to examine
evidence at the Bar relative to the conduct of the present Admi-
nistration, in precu;•ing seats in Parliament for certain individuals.
The douse adjourned at four n'clock this morning.

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