Star.
London, England, 1815-03-16 00:00:00

PARLIdfMENTARr PROCEEDINGS.

ROUSE OF LARDS, MARCH 15.

TN forenoon was devoted to the transaction of judicial buss-
:sees and after the temporary adjournment, the House 'Am again
• he o'clock. "

A. Dumber of Petition. were presented by dircrent Peers, the
ar greater part of which wore adverse to the Corn Bill.
Amen-there intte 11/44itinal - front the-City of York, Iran

farringdin Without. and several other Wards in the City of
Location, from Dtunfries, Borough ot Southwark, Dumbarton,
blasgoir, 13reenock, and Newbury, Bet Its.
From the Lord Mayor, Altiermep, and Common Council of
the City of Loudon, to the same effect, against the Ball, and
'praylbg to be heard by their Counsel in support of their allega-
*m agtinst the,same.
Lord GRENVILLE, Who presented this Petition, said he
iboukt submit a motion relative to its prayer, ether to-morrow
;sr Friday.
Marl STANI-10PE reminded his Noble Friend, that on to-
morrow their Ltsrd.hips were summoned on his motion.

Some conservation on this point arose between thine Noble
Lords and the Earl of LA UD Zit DA LL, which Seemed to terminate
In an understanding that on the latter day the topic would be
again brought before the Heine.
The Earl of LIMERICK presented a Petition from the City
of Limerick, in support- of the Corn ; and Viscount MONT-
JOY, one from the county of Dublin, to the same effect.
A Petition lions the Merchants, Manufacturers. and others, of
the town and neighbourhood of Birmingham, against the Corn
Sill, was presented by Lord CA LT HO I Pt.
All the foregoing documents were ordered to He on the table.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a Petition upon a
fubject, he said, of q different nature, and upon which, it the
forms of the Houie admitted of it, numerous applications would
have been brought fthward. He mesnt the subject of the pro.
posed duty, which it appeared from the votes of the Commons,
was intended on the windows of the warehouses of Manufac.
tuners. A procedure of this nature was unjust, impolitic, and
inhuman. The proposed duty was Imps% because unequal, as
it made no distinction as to the amount of the windows, or the
opulence of the Manufacturer; it was aho censurable because it
would go greatly to deterioriate the health of the manufacturing
labourers who were crowded together in large manufactories.
Upon the whole, he wasted the Noble Lord opposite, and his
financial colleague, would reconsider this duly, and endeavour to
substitute :time other oh less injurious nature. The Noble Mar-
quis seemed to advert, in terms rather Of approbation, to the
greater part of the other proposed new 'lases. the Petition was
ordered to lie on the table.
Contain additional accounts relative to the importation of
Grain, were, on the motion of Earl GREY, ordered to be laid
before the House.
Several private Bills were brought up from the Commons, by
, Mr. Be crte, Mr. ELLIOTT, and other Members, and read a
irk tone.
Those tapas the table • were forwarded in their respective
stases. Their Lordoblps then proceeded to the principal Order
of the Day, upon which the House were summated, and which
respected
_

THE CORN DILL
The Earl of LIVERPOOL.-•The measure, of
which he was about to propose the second reading.
was one that he had most attentively considered
during the coarse of the three last years; and could
conscientiously add without the least particle of pre.
judice ; for it ever there existed a question, either
with ►eference to the opinions of persons with whom
he was in the habit of agreeing on most topics, or
' with reference to his own•situation, on which he WAS
fully divested of all prejudice, it was the very cities-
' tion on which he had that.night the honour to address
their Lordships. The first view of this very impor-
tant subject, which naturally preseptld itself, was
the actual
,situition of the country, with respect to
that perhaps most important of all considerations, its,
agt Lolture. In that view this country Was different
' from many othsrs. In smaller states, both ancient
and modern, and among the latter, the Republics of
Holland, Venice, and Genoa, a different line of policy'
wisely adopted; they depended fur their supply

'of .grni.e, on Insportadeno ftent'brser countries, as
it was anspossible that sindistales sould look to agri-
Culture as a. means of: wealth, or even supply .their
domestic eousemptiont they therefore depended upon,
commerce and manufactures as their only source of
wealth and aggrandizement. But very different was
the can with vespecr to countries of great territorial,
extent, and having a population of ten, tivz.lve, 6f.
taco, or twenty Millions to supply. Such countries
could not possibly be &pendent upon others for an
Particle of the first necessity, without the greatest pos-
sible risk. This codatry -sbbuld be, not only from
::st an ces, but from policy, not only 0 great
ial, but a great agricnltural* country, and
chi principle of its legialatem should be with a view
tif the interests of both. The one should, on this
' aetolont.. be sacrificed to the other. He would come
new to the general principle of the measure. With
reepiet to the idea that-every. thing should be left to
find its own level, if that principle Could apply equally
to all btatiches of commerce, it may perhaps be a
deti mot In policy. ' But they were to consider. that
in I ' is
,istg fee Meet Britain-and Ireland, they
wet; of now leglasting & rime 1 the existing state
r,f things; the nature and effect of the numerous le-
gislative enactments already In force and operation,
and they were called upon to apply the same prin-
ciple of legislation, as far as it could be done, to all.
Almost every branch of their domestic commerce and
manufacture, was more or less protected by law, as
their cottons, silks, woollen, irons, and various other
branches, against foreign competition. What were
the effects but to encourage the employment of capi-
tal and the exertions of industry in all their branches;
I therefore, with respect to those branches, which were
not so protected, they but discouraged them ;—(Hear,
hear) —and, in course, if it protected manufacture
and not agricultit4lthit was it but to discourage
egpiculture ? It s a curioue-circumstance that the
i ation of cattle was prohibited, and yet they
withheld protection to the growth of grain. With
regard to a due consideration of the subject, they
would have to look back to what the policy of the
country was for near a century anterior to the year
1766. In that interval, the country not only grew
enough of corn for its consumption, but was even an
exporting country. Notwithstanding that, the country
was progressively increasing in wealth, manufactures,
commerce, and population. He must say, then, that
if, during a period in which agriculture so grutly
flourished, the country was so much improving, at
the same time, in every other respect, similar conse-
quences were again to be confidently expected. With
respect to the particular measure under consideration,
and which went to extend somewhat of a due encou-
ragement and protection to agriculture, he was tho-
roughly convinced, that through its operation and
effects, the price of bread would become lower
than it would if no such measure was adopted ; it
would have also the most salutary effect of bringing
bread to an equal.and steady price. which would not
only 'go to benefit the consumer, but to improve the
Mend state of soeterr--Heor. hear),—because in its
present state, a fluctuation from one extreme to the
other, may frequently be attended with consequences
the most injurious. Individual interest was the best
security for an eventual adequate and regular supply
ciao necessary an article ; and it was essential, there-
fore, that a due protection should be extended to agri_
epicure. or they inevitably should discourage it. In
the year 1791, an important alteration was made in
the Corn Laws, with respect to the importation, and
in 1804, another—to the last, whtni a Member of
their Lordships' House, he gave the best attention
and support in his power ; but the then situation of
Ireland, and the free intercourse between the corm-
tries, had materially altered the question from what
it.was on the former occasion. And fr,:m the expe-
rience they had since of Ireland, he must say. that
the most beneficial consequences were to be expected
to the United Kingdom, from a due attention being
paid to the improvement of agriculture in Ireland.—
And the question in that view came to this, whether
they would sacrifice a certain or an uncertain source
of supply ? (Hear, hear).—Neither could the mea-
sure, as argued the other night, have the effect of
lowering the rents in England, and raising them in
Ireland ; but it would operate most beneficially to
the consumers in both countries, and tend, upon the
whole, to make the supply more certain ; and these
he thought to be the great and primary consideration.
Much had been said upon a former night, upon the
point of fixing the price at 80s. and the authority and
sentiments among the evidence largely referred to.—
In such cases it was impossible it could be other.
' wise ; persons coming from different parts' of the
country thought and inferred differently on these to•
pies ; they even differed upon the simple point of the
protection proper to be given per acre. These gra-
datioas of opinion were generally between 725. and
965. But for the last ten years, the average price
was abdie 90s. ; and for the last 20 years above 80e,
of 844. The price so much objected was therefore
considerably lower than the average of the last, ten
years, and during that period the price of bread was
never so high as to be sensibly felt. By the best cal.
culations he had seen, and from his own views of the
subject, the price (when at 80s.) of the quartern loaf
ought wise about Is. or ISd. No one part of the
kingdom should be protected at the expence of the
other; this was for the benefit of the consumers in
both, and for protecting the whole against the injuri-
ous effects of foreign Importation—(Hear, hear.)—
But Noble Lords opposite seemed to consider that
80s. still would be a minimum price ; bur this rate
was not supported by one tittle of either fact or argu-
ment. From the experience they had already upon
the subject —from what had been proved with respect
to Ireland—from the salutary effects which the ape.
ration of the present measure must have in its incite-
ment to agricultural exertions, when individuals were
protected against foreign competition, it may be re-
garded as more likely to prove a maximum than a.
minimum. price. This could be borne out by a view
of the prices,•with reference to the importation for

-the &Avers preceding 1791. in 1792, it was 842
—los.' under the importation price ; in 1799, itiS Is.
1794, 451 Bs, and it never rose to tint importa-
tion price till 1795, which was a year of great
scarcity; from those and several subsequent calcula-
tions, his Lordship chewed, that fixing the imports.-
Lion price was in no respect fixing a minimum. So
far,from this, it was his firm belief, that by inducing
Abe empleyment of capital in the ageiceltural line, it
'would in the event considerably lower the price of
limed. With respect to the important consideration
nUthe supposed effects of the measure upon the ma-
nufactering interests, he would first of-serve, that
their did not depend so much upon the cheapness of
, provisions as upon certain other considerations. In
all great countries, where manufactuno; were esta-
blished, the prize of labour was high ; it was to the
capital, and to the credit of this, that she was prin-
cipally indebted for her manufacturing prosperity.
The cheapness of fuel, and the employment of ma-
,chinery, were the next essential means, and it would
be found, _hat in those parts where manufacturere
-were 'statistics wit;lt the greatest success, that the
prices or provisions were highs it was, upitis.::thef.
wholes, much more to the comfort and advantage of
the labourer, that his wages should be high, than
that provisions should be cheap. In France, of which
it had been said, either in reference to its mantilk.:-
tures or ite agriculture, the advance in the prices of
corn for a number of years were nearly in the same
proportion as in England ; and this his Lordship il-
lustrated by various calculations. The next cc-nisi.
deration was, the effect which the measure would
have with respect to the supply of the Metropolis,
and certainly none could be more important. But
with respect' to its supply, London, whatever may
be said, had several advantages over any of the pro.
vincial towns. At the same time, the, Deices were
frequently higher ; that might arise from the opera-
don of the assize, from the wheat generally consumed
being of a finer or better quality. But, on the other
hand, as would, appear from the papers upon the
table, the prices were often lower in London ; it en-
joyed great adi,antages also from its port, with re-
spect to the importations, and he must contend it
could not be Linty said, that the metropolis would
be put to any special inconvenience from the op la•
tion of the proposed law. Drawing towards' his con-
clusion, the Noble Earl argued with great force and
effect, that in a consideration of such vital import-
ance as that which constituted so great a portion st
the food of the people, it was essentially necessat
the country would not depend upon the precariole
and uncertain resource of foreign importation for a
supply. That by affording a due protection and er.-
couragernent to agriculture, the necessity of such
recurrence would be soon done away ; that the prices
of bread would eventually becoite cheaper, and in
that important respect the interests of the consort,
would be materially benefited. It was to its domestic
resources the country was chiefly to 100 l for the foen-
dation of her grandeur, prosperity, aggrinifiaentet...
and happiness. To these her foreign ariel Whin' ~
commerce bore but a slight comparison. as the oven:
of the loss of our North American colonies cleat ;
evinced, which. instead of detracting her genera) :
terests, the country was seen to rise to a still
degree of power, glory, vigotir, wealth, and t
sources. and to the effectuation of those means soh'.‘
enabled her subsequently to support a contest of ua
equalled length, exertion, and expenditure. Unger it.
these impressions and convictions, which he feltro:
powerfully, he would move that the bill now I.,etiaL
their Lordships be reid a second time.
The Earl of CARLISLE was firmly persuade. 7
that any measure tending to raise the price. of corn
would rats. the price of labcnr ; then there. were Nr_
sons w:io were not able to labour much, and th..se
persons must be in want. It would affect ail chr.ses
of labourers, from moat robust r.o the weakest ;
and the lowest order, who had still some life left, tont
whose power to work Oaf very I( eble, would be in-
'volved in poverty and distress to sue:,a degree as
be obliged to go upon the parlthes. Those persoes
therefore, who might still be considered. as useful
members of society, would become a lautthen upon
the Public. He had his doubt whether; the Bill would
produce the advantages proposed by it; and he even
doubted whether it was wished or required by
the majority of the agricultural people of the coun-
try. He had himself made particular enquiry on
this subject ; he had askee4 those who lived on his
estates in Yorkshire viti Cumberland, and he had
not met a single mason lin any interference of the
Legislature on.tkie subject of Corn. He accounted
for thus on the principle that the cheapness of grain
would produce a corresponding rise of other agricul-
tural products. He knew this to be the tact from
his own experience. Last year he sold wool for ibs.
a stones which some years before would only have
feteita 75.; and had he kept that wool until the pre-
sent year, he could have got 38s. for it. The cause
r of tlus was, that is consequence of the cheapness of .
provisions, and the consequent low price of labour,.
the manufactures increased, and the raw material of
the woollen manufacture increased also.
Earl FORTESCUE entertained great doubts of
this country being ever in danger of being inu.adated
with cheap corn from France. He also doubted whe-
ther France could be considered an agriculttral
country. At all events, the state of her .ot ;culture
was fluctu sting and uncertain ; and h.: thou,;ht
Parliament ought to pause before it adop:ed a men- •
sure of this k n I, and wait to see the effect which im-
portation troni France %%Nis likely to produce
Lord GRENVILLE said,
.when he first under-
stood that this measure was intended tc be brought
before the Legislature, and when he found it had
been adopted by the Executive Government, the
weght of whose support it was to ttceive—from that
moment. and the short interval between the rnanifei-
tation of such an intention and the bringing forward
the measure. he regretted that he was not able to
give the subject that full consideration which it r..
quired, Os to obtain the additional evideace thit was