Star.
London, England, 1822-05-02 00:00:00

•„ k

.

Lord EBRINGTON considered the present plait to
make against the principle of the Sinking Fund, as it
went to relieve ourselves by throwing part of oar pre-
sent burdens on posterity. If acted upon, he thought,
it would be better to contract with the Commissioners
of the Sinking Fund. He wished to see the country.
relieved immediately from its present weight.of taxa-
tion by means of that Fund. If he could not get all
that he wished for, there was no reason why he should
not take all he could get. He therefore felt bound
to support the present measure.
Mr. MABERLY commented on the inconsistency
of establishing a Sinking Fund of £5,000,003, to re-
duce our debt, and then coming to Parliament to
create a new debt. If the plan were acted on at all,
he and those who were with him contended, that the
most economical mode would be to have recourse to
the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund. He main-
tained, that the People had a right to be relieved from
the taxes which they had till now sustained ; and this
ought to be effected by the only legitimate course,
namely, a reduction of public expenditure.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS stated, that to a real efficient
Sinking Fund he was friendly. But all th(Sink-
ing Funds in this country, instead of reducirk had
ad led to the public debt. At the end of 45 years the
debt would be more than if L:2,200,000 had been
taken from the Sinking Fund. The object of Ministers
in this novel plan of theirs was to conciliate the Coun-
try Gentlemen under the pretence of economy.
Mr. BENETT entiiely concurred in the proposed
measure, which did not affect the Sinking Fund. He
was happy to think, that in the present Session there
would be a reduction of taxation to the amount of
£1,800,000. The measure had his approbation.
Mr. MONCK was inclined to support the measure,
as equivalent to a reduction of taxation. But, per-
haps, to purchase the half-pay of many of the young
Officers, would be a more eligible plan, which many
of them would willingly sell, as they had at present
no chance of rising in their profession.
Mr. W. SMITH asked, if the calculation formed a
part of the Resolution?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER an-
swered in the negative, and explained the nature of
the calculation.

M:. BROUGHAM said, there was nothing which
had tended to alter the impression which he had
to med on the first assumption of the plan. Ministers
had not even attempted to deny or disguise that this
plan was in direct contradiction to the Sinking Fund ;
it was in contradiction, in diminution of that Fund.
Every hundred pounds, every pound which it affected
to save was just so much taken from that Fund. The
Noble Lord had gotten hold of the Sinking Fund in
one quarter, and in another the Chancellor of the
Exchequer was to pay it away. Thus the sum came
from the same purse; the Public always paid the
piper—it was the same operation under different names.
he Noble Marquis had helped to illustrate the iden-
tity of this glorious scheme for the relief of posterity,
and that other equally glorious scheme, which went
to throw upon posterity a part of the burdens under
which the Public were now suffering. The present
scheme was a commutation of an annuity on lives,
into a fixed annuity for the period of forty-five years.
Government had to go into the market for this.—
They were to pay £2,800,000 annually for an annuity
which now was £5,000,000, which would, according
to the calculation, be two millions about twenty years
hence, and which, at the end of forty-five years, would
be reduced to nothing. Could it be doubted, that
during the last half of that period posterity would
pay a considerable sum, and that during the laq
years of it they would.pay 122,200,000? Let Hon.
Gentlemen contrast this with the Sinking Fund, and
they would find that we were burdening posterity on
the one hand, and relieving them on the other; and
all this for no apparent purpose save that of paying
the expenses of management in both cases. The ope.
rations were simultaneous, and so their joint effect
was nothing but throwing upon the present genera-
tion the expense of management. This was the way
to mystify, to wrap up the import of a matter in the
abstrusions of arithmetic, but it v, as not the way to
relieve the country. Relief must, however, he af-
forded; and he trusted that all the
.parade of arith-
n:etic would not blind the few Members who were
present. He could not help regretting that that num-
ber was so few : but it really seemed that the anxiety
of Members to fly from their duty in that House, was
in the exact ratio of the importance of that duty. He
trusted, however, that the few whom the importance
of the present question had not been able to scare
away—those few who had deviated from the prac-
tice—the modern practice of Parliament, would not
allow themselves to be taken in by the mystification
of the Noble Marquis, and the arithmetic lithe Right
Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. WILSON did not think that the plan would
trench on the Sinking Fund; besides, the annuity was
to be bought at a peace price, and as we had a chance
of two or three wars during the forty-five years, an
advantage would thence be derived.
Mr. RICA RDo—‘, If this plan of selling the half-
pay on a permanent annuity were to be so advan-
tageous, why not sell in like manner the whole -et-
penses of the Army, as the advantages of such an
arrangement respecting it would be of far more im-
portance in the event of war?"
Mr. MABERLY—., Why not extend it to the in-
terest of the tiational debt, which, at the same rate,
would produce an annual saving of fifteen millionsr
Mr. BROUGHAM—" Would the Chancellor of
the Exchequer have any objection to extend it to
those pensions and Ministerial salaries which were
held upon nearly the same terms as the halt-pay?"
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, the House
had been told how Honourable Members ought to do
their duty in Parliament. He very much doubted
whether coming clown to the House about nine
o'clock, when Gentlemen had just taken a good din-
ner, was the correct point of duty. The Hon. and
Learned Gentleman had entered the House at that
time to mystify and obstruct the course of public dis-
cussion. There certainly could notisea better example
of irregular attendance, than coming down at nine
o'clock to complifin of the absence of others who had
taken share in the deflate at the commencement, and
.had left the House--(Laughter).—The Hon. and

..-.•

.

wb;cl) tiereett-thenieone 61-eteniticheieftfiketilNi
'which moot ol%Hiss. IMltadj which
.wasipprecisted by
„ad terms Oil the House, when the Hon. and Leatnes,l Member was
mid ha should
.knjoying the. pleasdris of the tabirt,—V4uglber); Hiis
• till these Right Hon. Friend had given ample earianatiott, but
the Han. and Learned drieuxber
agil;:dedraoaltepnhteeliran,
Ipulgrgiying 43thneanethwe pillann..taondthiaee
would not be attended with benefit. Did
and Learned Member never hear of the mat,
overloaded by elem. of commodity ? His Right
Hon. Friend knew too much of his outn business to
be tempted by the recommendation of any Honour,
able Member to go with 15 or £90.000,000 of Stock
into the market. The Noble Marquis recommended
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, if he was desirous
of assisting in the execution of public business, and
of doing his duty faithfully, to attend at five o'clock,
and hear the argument, and not confuse the debate
by reading lectures to Hon. Members, who, having
discharged. their duty, had left the House before the
Hon. and Learned Gentleman came.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he dtd not doubt the
Noble Lord would have been glad to find him absent
during the whole debate ; but the truth was, he was
in the House at five o'clock, and remained till half-
, past six. Seeing then there was no prospect of the
subject coming on,.he retired for a short period
of time—(A laugh).—He believed he was not absent
more than two hours and a half(Latighiell, —and
during that time, he left his Hon. Friend the Mem,
ber for Worcester, who he was sure would not suffer
the debate to loie anything by his temporary absence.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY—I should
have lOtt nothing by it--(A laugh.).
Mr. HUSKISSON observed, that the Hon. Mem-
ber who was to take care of the debate said he knew
nothing about it—(Loud laughter).
Mr. BROUGHAM then said, he had received no
answer to his question respecting the intention of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer to make the plan ex-
tend to other branches of public debt and expenditure.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—
" If the Honourable and Learned Gentleman bad at-
tended at the commencement of the debate he would
have known my reasons for not making it extend be,
yond the object in view.'
The Resolution was then agreed to.
The 3d and 4th Resolutions were Carried without oppOsition.
Upon the fifth, to empower the Treasury to contract with
any Corporate Body or others for carrying the plan into effect,
Mr. Huse moved an Amendment, giving the C missioners of
the Sinking Fund the power to contract instead of the Treasury:
but as be did not insist upon his Amendment, the Resolution
was agreed to.
The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
received to-morrow.

SUPPLY.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply, in which
the CHANCELLOR of the•EXCHIiQUER moved, that the
sum of £89,000, British, be granted to his Majesty to pay off the
Irish Five per Cent. Holders, who had not taken Four per Cents
Stock.—The sum was voted.

Mr. III:ME asked, whether it was intended to pay off all
contracts bearing five percent. interest? It was improvident to
pay five per cent. when money could be obtained for four per cent,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that,
with some exceptions, these contracts had been paid off.
The House staving resumed, the Report was ordered to be
received on Monday.
M r.II U M E asked whether the accounts between the East Indio
Company and Government were to be laid on the table?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the ac-
counts would be laid on the table when ready. They were at
that time under examination.
The House then adjourned at ONE o'Clock.

EXTRACT OF THE PROPOSED RESOLUTIONS

FOR REGULATING THE CORN TRADE
(MARQUIS OF LONDONDERRY.)
That his Majesty direct Exchequer Bills, to an amount not
exceeding one million, to be advanced under certain restrictions,
whenever the average price of wheat shall be under 60s. per
quarter, upon such corn, the growth of the United Kingdom, as
shall be deposited in proper warehouses.
That it is expedient to permit the holders of foreign corn now
in warehouses, to have the same ground into flour, for the per-
pose of exportation, under such regulations as may guard against
the introduction of the said corn for borne consumption.
That foreign corn, meal, or flour, shall be permitted to be
imported into the United Kingdom, for borne consumption,
whenever the average prices of wheat shall be at 70s. per quar-
ter; rye, peas, or beans, 461. per quixter; barley, bear, or bigg,
555. per quarter ; and oats, 255. per quarter.
That whenever foreign corn, meal, or flour, shall be admissi-
ble, there shall be levied and paid the duties hereafter to be
determined.

That foreign corr, meal, or flour, may be taken out of ware-
house for home consumption, whenever the average price of
wheat shall be at 70s. per quarter; rye, peas, or beans, 46a. per
quarter; barley, bear, or bigg, 355. per quarter; and oats 25g.
per quarter.
That no such foreign corn, ereal, or flour, shall be taken out
of warehouse, unless there he previously paid upon such corn,
meal, or flour, the several duties to be hereafter determined.
That any corn, meal, or flour, of the growth, produce, or ma-
nufacture of any British Colony or Plantation in North Ame-
rica, may be taken out. of warehouse for home consumption,
whenever wheat shall be 595. per quarter; rye, peas, and beans,
395. per quarter; barley, bear, or bigg, 30s. per quarter; and
oats 90s. per quarter; and such corn, meal, or flour, shall be
liable, on being taken out of warehouse, to the duties to be here.
after resolved on.

(ER. HUSKISSON.)
The ports were shut against the importation of Foreign
Wheat, for home consumption, in the month of February,
1819, the average price being then 7Ps. 7d. a quarter, and that
they have remained closed ever since; the average price of the
year 1820 having been 455. 7d.—of the year 1821, 543.
and of the first three months of the year 1822, 475. 9d. a quarter.
In the year 1819, the quantity of British Wheat imported into

the port of London was 7.00,416 quarters; in 1820, 399,009
quarters • and in 1821;404,8:4S quarters; and that during the
whole of this period of three years, the supply in alt the principal
markets of the United Kingdom, appears uniformly to have ex- •
ceeded the demand, notwithstanding the wants of an increasing
population, and other circumstances, which have probably pro-
duced an increased annual consumption.
This excess of the supply above the demand must have arisen
either from an extent of corn tillage more than commensurate
to the average consumption of tke country ; or from a succession
of abundant harvests upon the same extent of tillage ; or from the
coincident effect of both these causes.
In the fluctuation of seasons, the effect of the present Corn
Late must be to expose, sometimei, the grower of corn to the
Ione& incident to an over-redundant produce; and at other time,
the consumer to the pressure inseparable from dearth,--that the
free importation of foreign corn, if wanted to a great amount,
must be precarious in proportion as the demand is unusual; and
that against the former evil the law affords to the grower no relief
whatever.
The alternate evils of redundancy and scarcity cannot fall to be
aggravated by the alternate excitement and depression to which
the agriculture of the United Kingdom must be exposed, under
the present system of our Cord 1..1%s s.
Another evil effect of this system is, 50 ••'-
hizardous and gambling spectate'
must involve great losses to the
That it is expedient to provi.
under bond in the United Kingdom,

consumption, upon the payment
soon as the average price of wheat
and that at the expiration of three
admission of warehoused wheat
much sooner as the average price

• •
_e. . . .
not islet& tho.printractect.of the Sin Atnd,
it left ted. The -1
he woo:restto aim, would be, get veto
which the arrangement might be task! :1
reserve what Ischad to say on the sobjett till
were known.

. •
ticketed by •
ember was
;kir); His
nation, but '
.Ar its The
lem.m,
ap-
:nsit7n List,
d the Hon.
arket being
His Right
business to
ty Honour- -
DO of Stock
:ommended
vas desirous
[siiress, and
five o'clock,
the debate
,ho, having
e before the
: doubt the • 1 1
I him absent
was. he was

10.4141.• • • t
Strni is, to cOnvert farming into a
• :
anon, which, however managed,
capitals engaged In agriculture.
vide that the foreign wheat now
:dont, may be taken out for home •
• /
it of a duty of iSs. ktuarter, set , •
lest ehall exceed 70s. a q?aiter • f
ree months from the date of such I
t into home consumpdoo, or so
rice shall exceed 80s. a gustier,
I