Star.
London, England, 1830-03-02 00:00:00

BOROUGH OF XEMAILIC.

Mr. P. THOMPSON Raid that he had a petition to present which ,
would command the best attention of the house. He felt it would
be necessary to ask for the indulgence of the house, because, con-
curring as he did in the prayer of the petition, he would feel t his I
duty to found a subsequent motion upon it. The petition was from
the town of Newark, containing about 2,000 houses, a great portion
of which were the property of the Duke of Newcastle. Around the
town there were 960 acres belonging to the Crown; and he only I
wished he could be allowed to offer to the house a map of its
situation, in outer to show their great importance. This land
was held by a species of monopoly in the hands of one person,
which was most injurious to the extent and prosperity of the
town. But it had a privilege given to it, which, if rightly ev.er-
eised, would be of the greatest advantage; but that not being
so, this privilege was turned to their disadvantage. The town of
Newark would be flourishing if it were not that the lessee of the
crown charged a monopoly price for the ground, and the surrender
of body anti soul to the noble proprietor. But in saying this, he
meant not to say that property should not have its proper influence;
but at Newark the influence over the tenant was exactly like that of
a slave-driver over the West India Degrees. The late representa-
tive to his honour. declined his seat, because he felt it his duty to
vote against the opinions of his noble patron. He meant nothing
offensive to the present hon. member for Newark in any thing which
he had said; but, upon the resignation of Oen. Clinton, the electors
wished an unfettered exercise of their right, which they were not al-
lowed. Upwards of five hundred electors of Newark had the manliness
to oppose the nominee of the crown lessee; but their efforts
proved unavailing. The unfortunate electors knew well with whom
they had to deal; and, although the vengeance of the crown lessee
slumbered for a while, it was not the less certain of being put into
active operation when the period had passed at which an election
petition could have been presented with certain effect. It so oc-
curred, that every tenant of the noble duke who had voted for Sir.
Serjeant Wilde was served with a notice to quit at the ensuing half
year after the election—no, not every one; for there was one who
said he had voted for him In a mistake, and the agent of the
noble duke stated, that in that case the notice to quit was also
a mistake.—(Hear, hear.) He wished he had the eloquence of
the honourable member far Newark (Mr. Sadler,) for then he
would be enabled to paint In proper colouring the disadvantages
which resulted to that town from being subjected to the control
of the crown lessee. After the notices had been served, a
public meeting was convened, a most respectful petition was sent to
the noble duke and the hon. member (Sir. Sadler) to attend, which
they severally declined. Hr did not blame the honourable member
for acting upon his discretion in not doing so; but the noble duke,
in reply, had sent the requisitionists for answer, that he had a per-
fect right to do as he pleased with his own property. (Hear.)—
That might, however, he (Mr. P. Thompson) entirely denied.
The noble duke, as &landlord, might have, and-had, a certain right
as to his tenants ; but he had no right whatsoever over the votes of
the electors. The exercise of such an influence was at variance with
the standing orders of that house, and their violation should, at
all events, be inquired into. (Hear, bear.)--If the noble duke
had read the work of the hon. member for Newark he would per.
haps have taken a different course, for there he would have found a
passage to the effect, that more misery resulted to the people }tom
the interference with the freedom of election than from almost any
other possible source.—(cheers.) Pecuniary as well as political in.
jury had been inflicted upon the people of Newark, and It now
only remained fur him to show that the very existence of a free re-
presentation in this house was involved in the consideration of this
petition. When the petition should be laid on the table, he meant
to move that a select committee should be appointed to inquire
into the manner in which a crown lease of the lands he had al-
luded to had been given to the Duke of Newcastle. The first lease
of the property at Newark bad been granted in 1760 to the Earl of
Lincoln, by his relative the Duke of Newcastle, who was then prime
minister, at a rent of 361. a year. The lease was renewed in 1816,
it having expired about nine years before, and the fine paid fee the
renewal was no more than the rent for those same nine years. In
1816 the rent was increased to 2,0601. a year, which he was informed
that the real value was at least from three to three thousand five
hundred pounds a year. So far there was a pecuniary loss to the
crown, which though great, was not half so great as the political in-
jury which it inflicted upon the inhabitants of Newark. The leases
granted by the Duke of Newcastle were only from year to year, with
a view no doubt to secure the subserviency of the electors, as in fact
ap in the case of those who voted against the candidate of the
no le in favour of Mr. Sergeant Wilde. The land in and about
the town of Newark was of considerable value, for he found that
four acres belonging to the estate of Lord Middleton had been sold
on building leases, at the rate of 10001. an acre. Why not the land
of the Duke of Newcastle sell at the same price, if the condition of
the tenants' tenure were not different to that of Lord Middleton ?
By an alteration of the mode of letting the crown lands, more matey
could be put into the Exchequer, while it would relieve the petiti-
oners especially from the political subjection of which they had so
much reason to complain. The crown lands at Newark, rrh. were let
to the noble duke as a benefit to the inhabitants, had been completely
turned to their disadvantage. For these reasons, es be said before, he
would move that the petition be referred toe select committee, to ex-
amine into the truth of the allegations which it contained. This cause
be preferred to referring it to a committee of privileges. Honour.
able members generally anew that suet) a course was fully open
to him. He asked for no punishment on the noble lessee; be
wished no greater indignation to pursue him than every one who
read the proceedings at Newark had already heaped upon him ;
be sought for no vengeance on the noble duke; but he (Mr. P.
Thompson) called upon this house to prevent the recurrence of
the evils so justly complained of. and to vindicate the crown from
the obloquy which must also necessarily attach to such transac-
tions.—(hear, hear.)
On the motion that the petition be brought up,

Lord LOWTHEIt said, he did not deny the right of the peti.
tioners to present this petition ; but be was aware that some of the
facts stated ir: the hon. member were either gross mis.statemems, or
a great perversion of the truth. (Hear, hear.) Ile would not fol-
low the honourable member through all the allegations he nad yen.
Lured to make, and he would admit that the amount of the popula-
tion of Newark was correctly stated. With respect to the tolls,
mentioned in the petition, their amount was only 801. n ear, one-
third of which was claimed by the corporation of Nottingham, and
the grant was made so fat back as the reign of Charles t e Second.
As to the 060 saes of land, so much dwelt on by the honourable
member, It was not surrounding Newark, as had been described;
they were scattered over several villages, and some of them
at the distance dually three or four miles Rout that town—(Hear.)
He was aware that the right of voting for Newark was the payment
of scot and lot; but the house would be surprised when he told
them that the crown property there consisted of twelve houses and
twenty-six cottages. (Hear.) After all the parade about the in-
Ifluence—after all that had been said about extortion and tyranny in
the noble duke, who was called the crown lessee, he (Lord L) won-
dered that the hon. member who had inspected the map of Newark
at the office of woods and forests. had net described it more accu-
rately than be had done. It; in fact, as had been stated, it were to
be defended as crown lands, no less than three sides of It would be
open and defenceless. There were three or four proprietors of land
who had a Luger property at Newark than possessed by the crown.
True, the rent originally was only 361. altar. But, then, the re-
newal was in 1800, and not in 1815 as had been mated. The an-
nual rental was now 2,060!. a.year, which was the amount regu-
lated after a fair valuation by surveyors sent down from London,
who acted upon their oaths. If then the statements of the hon.
member had been so far exaggerated or unfounded as to the ma.
etagere of the crown lands, so should the alleged interference of the
crown lessee be stated with a greater degree of caution. Who, he
begged to ask, would take ground if he were not to let it as
he thought proper? As he, in his present situation was only in the
condition of tenant at will, he could not say what might'oecur in
the letting of crown lands in some aix years to come; but it was
quite evident that the present was nothing more nor itas than an
election petition, and he would strongly advise the house not to
grant the petitioners a journey to London at the public expense,•for
that was the principal object which they sought.
Mr. F. CLINTON contended that the petition was filled
throughout with very gross misstatements. It stated that the land
was let solely for electioneering purposes, ft beinglet, not on lease,
but from year to year. Nowt so happened that almost all pro.
ipetty in the county of Nottinghamwas let from year to year, so
that the Duke of Newcastle's property was let upon the same terms
as the property of other gentlemen, there being no such thing as
i lessee In the county. This, therefore, was an unfair repteeemation
lupon the part of the petitioners. The hon. member farther contended
that so fathom the DO* of Newcastle being a bar to the extending
of the town of Newark, then was no town in Hoghafd more over.
Ibulh than that town ; for at this moment there wore tom new
houses unlet. He thought the present petition was brought fur-

~

ward solely for election purposes ; for It appeared that the whole
number of lessees upon the crown lands of the Duke of Newcastle
were 74, seven of whom voted for Mr. Sergeant Wilde, while the
number of voters was upwards of 1,300. So that if the whole 74
had been given to Mr. Wilde, Mr. Sadler would still have been re.
turned by a very large majority.

Sir F. BIJRDETT considered that the matter was of so much
ire as to deserve the appointment of a committee. When a
lest was presented to the house, the statement of any individual
,emeraber was no answer to such a Petition, especially upon a subject
dso much importance. But before he entered upon the discussion
otthat topic he wished to say a few words upon a subject of a more
personal nature. The noble duke had addressed a letter to the editor
of a newspaper, which it well suited an idle man to have to do with,
for, fortunately, it was one requiting no answer. In what he had
said he entertained not the slightest idea of offering the noble duke
any offence. He had not applied to him personally the appellation
of boroughmonga—hs had simply stated a matter of fact. In
the present state of the house he was ready to admit that he cont.
dered it no crime to purchase a seat in that house; he was ready to
become so far the friend of corruption as to acknowledge that the
purchase of a seat was in the present times less an evil than the pal.
native of an evil. The purchase of which he spoke was made at a dote
when the noble duke was an infant, " mewling and puking in his
nurse's arms"—long before he bad attained that maturity of age and
wisdom for which he was now distinguished. At that time he (Sir
F. B.) thought of nothing so little as of coming into a Parliament ;
the representation of Boroughbrldge was pressed upon him by his
Mends. One of the parties was an infant in law and the other (him.
self) was, at that time uncontaminated by politics—they were both,
therefore, entitled to be called Simon Pure. He knew almost as
little about the matter as did the noble duke. He found himself
placed in that house by a sum of money, 4,0001. and no very great
payment it was, considering that the seat was secured to him for a
tpritOdmdighatXoczyeir
withnoitnwtihthasttaperiolnding anit dissolution
ct tolls% parliament
eltnt efnort
Boroughbridge In consequence of the payment of 4,000/. on his be-
half to those who acted on behalf of the Duke of Newcastle. But
in stating that he surely meant—nor did he convey anythin.;
offensive to the noble duke he spoke of a Duke of Newcasth,
for the time being—Pelham, Duke of Newcastle, or any other.
it made little difference to him. Mr. Portman. the father o:
the present member for Dorsetshire, succeeded him in that
borough ; and so strictly honourable was the conduct ob-
served towards him in that matter, that In consequence of
a dissolution of parliament shortly after his return he was
returned a fair proportion of the purchase-money, though he had
made no stipulation to that effect. In speaking of transactions such
as that...he mean no blame to the individual, whether called a bo-
roughmooger, a borough master, or a borough forcer, or quocun.
gum isominegatufee-.there was no blame to the individual ; the
blame rested upon that house • and it was for that house to
vindicate its own privileges and the liberties of the country.
He had listened with much pleasure and attention to the clear,
lucid, strong, he might say, irresistible statement of the ho.
nourable member for Dover (.Ir. P. Thompson) and he could
not understand how the house could refuse to accede to his
motion. He hardly knew in what way to consider the peti-
tion—whether as an ordinary election petition, or as one
affecting the rights and privileges of that house, and the
right of election particularly ; and it complained, too, of what
very nearly concerned the house—the interference of a Pcer in the
election of a member. That interference was, in the eyc of the
common law, a high crime and misdemeanor. A maxim of that
law was elec.:lows flu at ilbera—it was an acknowledged princi-
ple of the law that elections should be free. Again, the Statute of
IVestminster, which was but a collection and interpretation of the
common law, asserted the same principle—the offence of a Peer in.
terfering with elections, was specially noticed in that Act, and pro.
nounced to be a high crime and misdemeanor. It was absurd to
cally anything an election that was not free—lt was either free, or
it was not an election at all—not only were elections by the law
to be nominally free, but they were to be practically so, and
without interference.—(hear.) There was nothing which our
fore-fathers guarded more jealously than the freedom °relations--
elections of every kind; for in ancient times the dignitaries of
the church were elected, and by them the interference of a peer
was regarded as the highest offence. Since then nothing could
be more indisputable than the freedom of elections, and in that
light, perhaps, the petition might be considered a petition of
privileges ; at the same time, it was substantially an
election petition from the defeated candidate. (Hear, bear, hear.)
In whatever light it might be regarded, the petition was one
of considerable importance. The petitioners alleged that the
present practice was most injurious to the interests of pro-
perty in Newark—to the progress. the wealth, and prospe.
rity of that town. With that averment before them, the friends of
of the noble duke ought to be anxious to have the matter inquired
into. There was a bill before the house for the disfranchisement of
East Retford ; and here was one where a peer was accused not only
of using undue influence, but of using threats and force. Could
they, with any show of consistency, disfranchise the one and allow
the othet:to escape ? Further, a crime, accompanied with violence,
is greatly aggravated by that violence. Now, if, upon examina-
tion, it turned out- and examination was most necessary—that
that peer had interfered, they could not allow one borough to es-
cape and inflict punishment on the other. In justice then to all
parties, he thought that the house could not refuse a committee.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY said he saw no greater reason for attacking
the Duke of Newcastle than for attacking any other noble lord who
salt their nominees to that house, except that the crown lands are
the property of the public' and ought not to be made the means of
=ing them. There had been a precedent for that house ad.
nig the King, in order to prevent a particular disposition
of crown property. King William the Third had signed a grant
to the Earl of Portland giving him five-sixths of the County of
Derby. (Hear, hear.) The House of Commons addressed his Ma-
jesty upon the impropriety of the grant, upon which he revoked it,
saying that he was under particular obligations to the Earl of Port.
land, but in deference to the House of Commons, he would
remunerate him in some other manner. (Hear, hear.) He did so
remunerate him, and his descendants now profited in a way which
would MOTS fully appear to the House when be brought forward his
motion on the 30th of March, relative to the crown lands On
that night also he would be prepared to prove that since the days
of Queen Anne the crown lands were worth 700,0001. per annum,
and yet that they had not returned as many peace ; and he now
threw down the challenge to the noble lord opposite (Lad Lowther)
to disprove his assertion when the discussion should come on. He
knew a person in Newark, unconnected with any party, who informed
him that the crown lands near Newark would bring, if sold by auc-
tion, full 200,0001. (Hear, hear.) The people there were now com-
plaining of manacles which they wished to throw off; therefore. a
sale effected at the present period would prove pre-eminently ad-
vantageous. But, perhaps, it would be said, that though indi-
viduals m;ght thus eventually have a claim to property, they
might. for the omit five or six yenta. be expelled from what was
virtually their own by the Duke of Newcastle. To avoid this.
the house should interfere, and pass a bill, for the purpose
of enacting that the tenantry should not be thus violently divested
of their rights. But let him ask one question. Why should they
not buy up the Duke of Newcastle (a laugh)? A man who would
sell a seat to 4,0001. could of course have no obection to sell any
interest he might possess (a laugh, and hear, bear!). The sur-
veyor of the crown lands would easily be able to find out the valet,:
of the bargain. as his experience in the neighbourhood of St. Mar-
tin's.lene had given him some opportunities that way (a laugh).
Thus two or three hundral captives would be set free, and a sub-
stantial value would be given to the crown property. He would
not row say further on the subject, as he should on the 30th of
3latch take an opportunity of unfolding such a train of abuses and
corruptions as would astonish every one—even those who were best
acquainted with the system.
Alr. SADLER : Although this subject in the event of a select
committee being granted, would again come under discussion, yet be
did not think that he should be discharging his duty if he suffered
the present occasion to pen without erdeavouring to explain the
circumstances which had been so mist:sprain-a I. And in the first
place he begged to ask the hon. member fur Dover whether the pe-
tition hut had presented was carried at a town meeting, and whether
the full notice of that meeting had been given ?
Mr. P. THOMPSON—T:.e petition was carried at a public
meeting, convened after full notice, not only to all persons residing
in the town, but one of the no ices was even sent to the hon. gentle..
manhimstif (a laugh). The letter, howeeer, which ceuta.neti n.
travelled in the most extraordinary way about Cie country, and
was not till long after that the honourable gentleman wrote a letter
to the chairman of the meeting, stating that he should have written
before on this subject had the letter conic to him ,corer.
Mr. SA DLER—The honourable gentleman, in Inc opinion, bad
not given a specific answer ac to whether the petition emanated
from a public meeting (a loud laugh.) It war of importance to as-
certain this point, because the principal part of the voters of New.
ark had already expressed their opinion of the petition, as he looked
upon
the h
ludcd, laid somewhat facetiously, to the circumstances by which
oint.tgto hnedetnomnal.l iinntehnistsansanwderputorposesthe
yawn cionlectjiuostn peputitt,ioirluad
ats
the rodeo: leas prevented reaching him
(31r. Sadler). he would
say a word or two on that subject. All the travel that that
letter had had was entirely owing to accidents ; and bad it
Peached him in time, he should have had no hesitation in an-
swering it ht the negative; and he should have done this because be
hod shady waited upon his constituents since his electioa, and
afrlns circumstances called him to a distant part of the country, he
Y that he was bound to return to Newark. after having as
*hod it. Besides which be said that he Amid have had
already
offsmosts at the election.
I.peor before a commit
M]]]ess sosielayed by some mistake; not that he made any s
eas.
Isis saint the postmaster. 'But Ant It had gout to Leds,
lid the se Manchester ; then it was sent on to Clainsborougb by
committee, every
bodwry.wh:::hetiadhadbeen his

mistake (a laugh ;) and after a delay at all these places he
got the letter. He was afraid that he was wearying the at-
tention of the house, by entering into all these details.
lie had now to make a few observations on the conduct of the hon.
gentleman himself, who, though he no doubt intended to be cour-
teous, had not been very much so in this instance. It was not till
the Wednesday that he received notice from him that he intended to
propose the petition ; and he certainly had expected that a copy of
it would be sent to him ; he, however, had had no opportunity of
perusing it till that evening. That petition represented that he
was not known in Newark : that, however, was not true, for he
had been known to several influential persons there for many years.
It was erroneous—it was filae—(hear, hear). lie thought, as the
petition had been concocted in London—sent to Newark to can-
vass for subscribers—and then back to town—he might have
been furnished with a copy sooner, so as to have been able to make
some inquiries on the subject; in which cue he should have been
able to approach the house with something beyond mere impressions.
What had fallen from the noble lord coincided with the impressions
on his mind. It certainly was not for the house to deal with leases
that were already in existence; they could never admit an ex pod
facto law, such as the honourable member for Colchester had pro-
posed. There had been a great deal of gross exaggeration about
the conduct of the noble individual to whom so much allusion had
been made. If that was the proper place for explaining, he could
state many circumstances infinitely to that nobleman's honour.
The quotation which had been made from his book had
been unfairly applied, because it was only levelled at the
principle of clearing. The injustice that had been done to the inha-
bitants of Newark had been dwelt upon by the hon. gent. in strains
" most musical—most melancholy. If, however, he (Mr. Sadler)
were anxious to make apologies for what the Duke of Newcastle
had done, there were many at hand which he was sure would ap.
pear valid if addressed to any landlord in the kingdom. (a laugh,
and hear, hear.) He had been represented as a mere nominee ; but
he begged to deny this, though he would not disguise that when he
aspired to the honour of representing Newark, he had been fa-
voured with thegood opinion and influence o f certain individuals.
—(a loud laugh.He had sought the influence of the property
of the town and t neighbourhood, and he had gained it ; and he
L
would boldly say, that if all the noble Marquess a measures on
rdonn bad been carried into effect, he (Mr. Sadler) should still
have been the member for Newark. They had heard much vitu-
peration of the noble individual who had been alluded to, and from
the commencement of the late election to its termination, the cha-
racter of that noble person had been made matter of unceasing
abuse. It should be remembered that Newark was not a close or
corrupt borough ; it contained 10,000 inhabitants, and all who
were above the condition of a mere pauper had a vote. All this
taught them a very different lesson, and showed that
the only influence which the Duke of Newcastle had was
through kindness. During his (Mr. Sadlet's) canvass in
Newark. he had ample opportunities of seeing this, and
that his property was not debased or made use of for
election purposes ; he knew of many of the noble duke's tenants
who gave no vote, baause they had no vote to give. And why was
this? Because they were widows whom the duke did not chute to
remove for the sake of strengthening his numbers at the polL Of
that noble person it might be said that there was no act of his life
which reflected the slightest degree of dishonour on his character.—
The duke, consulting the pure principles of his own unsullied mind
hail had respect for his (Mr. Sadlet's,) and left him to the free ex.
pression of his own unbiassed opinions. If the house intended to
destroy that noble person's influence, they must destroy the influ.
once of a man seated in the hearts of every one in that neighbour.
hood. If there was anything in this that could be regarded as cor-
rupt, there was not a sound spot in the kingdom.
Lord HOIVICK did not wish to deprive the Duke of Newcastle,
as the case stood at present, but he would ask whether it was not
exercising a right greatly to the prejudice of the country? The
hon. member for Colchester had stated that the crown lands could
1;e La at much greater advantage . (Loud cries of " Question,l
question !") He took it far granted that the house intended to adopt'
the motion of the hon. gentleman. (Question, question.)
Mr. H0131101.75E thought the hon. member for Newark and the
hon. member who sat next him left the case just where they found
it. The hon. member (Mr. Sadler) had confessed to the truth of
the allegation made by the petitioners, and had avowed that he was
sitting in parliament in opposition to its rules. (Cries of no, no.)
Did not the honourable member say he sat there by the influence of
a peer ? (Cheers.)
Mr. SADLEIt.—I did not.
Mr. HOBHOUSE asked if the hon. member had not praised the
Duke of Newcastle for allowing him to vote as he pleased ?...
LCheering.) What inference was to be drawn from that avowal ?
Continued cheering.) Ile did not ask how much influence the
lee had exercised. It was enough for hint that a member had
acknowledged that a Peer of Parliament had dared to violate the
purity of the commons' house of England ; and that he had, in
lac:, sent a member to sit in that house. (Great cheering.) They
had it now before them as an acknowledged fact, theta member was
sitting then amongst them by the influence of a peer. (Cheers.) The
right hon. member for Liverpool had said on a former evening, that
when parliament found a blot the house ought to hit, and hit It
strongly. Here then was a blot, and if they would not hit it
they might as well tear up their resolutions, and put the mace;
Leder the table. The honourable gentleman said there was no in-
t.-es of such an interference by the house. The contrary was the
test. In the year 1707, Bishop Noy, one of the seven bishops,
sent letters to his ecclesiastical tenants that he should not renew
their leases, if they did not vote for the candidate be ream.
trended. The question was brought before the house, and the
house addressed Queen Anne to remove the bishop from his place
of almoner, which was the only way in which they could touch
him. Queen Anne replied, and expressed her sorrow that a lord of
parliament could so demean himself, and dismissed the bishop from
I.is place of almoner. There was another case of the Duke of New.
castle having interfered in the election of the great Mr. Pitt, in the
year 1747; and another case after, of the interference of the Duke
oz Chandos in an election, and in both cases the House entertained
tz-, question. Ille thought Mr. Tallents, the duke's agent, ought to
be brought to the bar of the House, to state whether the duke of
Newcastle had directed him to require the electors to return the hon.
member. Let not the people of England be sold like cattle, and
their dearest rights abused, trampled down and scoffed at. (Hear.)
The lamed gentleman said the meeting at which the petition was
agreed to, was attended only by the rabble. (No, no.) If it was
oily the rabble that attended to the freedom of election, then were
the rabble the most independent portion of the people. The ques.
te- was, whether they, who were sent there by the independent
people of England, were to be elbowed by the nominees of peers.
(netts, hear, hear.) The petition front the friends of the people
sated, that the peers returned 150 members to that house
:i:.l that 40 peers returned 81 members. The noble duke had
J•ked, was he no: to do what he would with his own ? but he was
yet -0 do with his own what would deprive all others of their tonsil-
, ....a:1, which was the safeguard of all they possessed. If they did
r.o: protect the people trout this interference of the noble duke, let
:.1,„:: never hereaftet punish any poor man for selling his vote. That
eds. a venial efiLnce compared with his, who drove the people like
c..t.!e to vote according to his will, in defiance of the dictates of
I ear own, consciences (hear, hear.)
• Sir R. WILSON supported the prayer of tlfe petition. If the
present system were continued, it would make the people all slaves
m•tead of freemen. The hon. member for Newark had denied the
infiu‘nce of the Duke of Newcastle over hint ; but was it not
true that forty persons had been turned out of their homes because
tary had given their votes for the other candidate ? It was said
the: one of the electors explained that he bad given his vote for the
wrong candidate by mistake, and then the duke's agent told him
that the notice to quit was also a mistake. The honourable men-
ha said no carrion had been used ; but if that were the case
vow came he to be member for Newark. The hon. member
a'. written a hook from which a quotation had alread been
414. but ore was to Le found equally appropriate in a greaty
tits.
1 ~. C Irtit'T :•-
'' You have atir.ong you many a purchased slave,
Which, like yuur 3...4.14, and your dogs and mules,
Von use in abject and in slavish parts,
because you bought them. Shall I sty to you
1, ; them be free?"
• 1, c.t• stl:at he said, if the duke had bought his slaves, he must
..t :!te 1 tree--
Why swat they under burdens? Let their beds
Ile made as soft as yours, and let their palates
Be seasoned with such viands."
lie would have them all treated alike; and as punishment had al.
'''4l/ been inflicted for corruption, he hoped, with a view to further
thesu.ity,that this petition would be referred to a committee.
thearhy:::ElLsae said there were two questions for the consideration of
Irv:auto
the election
w.as, did the crown exercise any interest with
on
fo bdllee dduekbea,tew, whose in question 1 and the second was, did the
name had been so often mentioned in the course
Ise any undue influence in having a particular
member returned for the borough of Newark. With respect to the
ifiArtiettelqyueisgti.on., he thought that the argument upon that head coal-
Ne weas alt in The mown lands had been leased to the duke of
1806, for 30 years, when Lord Grenville
:fasis.tfinteit'l,tteLord was of the Treasury, and when the Duke
opposed to him in politics. (Hear, hear,
•heaA This was as fair guarantee that it was not upon po-
Luca]
but th the that the noble duke became the lessee of Pore lands
gme-
u I ho =tenni of the crown bad been considered by the
e:rst Lem of the
for ;eh Treasury, and fair value had been received
and
callpuropenny It was not, therefore, for this houseto
nom in
lands. upon crown to dispossess the noble duke of those
which not
goad would be casting, a stigma on the noble duke, foe doing
grounds had been shown. Now with
then oble duke having exercised respect W
aa undue influents upon the hi:i,
brnrZg'berh:srettlti fur Newark, he would ask where vas the proof
forward in support of that assertion ? Theban. gentleman

(Mr. R. Thompson) had said that menaces had been used towards
the freemen, in order to" obtain their votes. If such had been the
fact, the freemen could have approached that house with a peti.
tion against the member returned, and have supported that pe-
tition by evidence at the proper tribunal. He considered the rights
respecting property were to be held as sacred as those of parlia-
ment ; ',not, it would be giving a premium for every bad tenant
to vote against his) landlord, and if dispossessed, to drag his land.
lord before Parliament, to be served as the Duke of Newcastle had
been. There was no proof of malice having influenced the noble
duke in the course he had thought proper as a landlord to pursue;
nor was there any proof of a threat having been used. He should
therefore vote against the petition being referred to a select corn-
nmittee.

The petition was then brought up and read.
Mr. P. THOMPSON begged to say a few words in reply. He
contended that the arguments used on his side of the question had
not been answered by the hon. members who spoke against the
prayer of the petition. His purpose was not to censure the duke of
Newcastle, or vitiate the late election. He merely wished to pre-
vent the crown lands from being leased to the injury of the interests
of the people. With respect to menaces having been used, he had
to observe that menaces might be used in such a way that no di-
rect evidence could be given upon the subject. The honourable
gentleman concluded by proposing " that the petition be referred
to a select committee."
The house then divided—
For the motion
Against it
Majority against the motion .... —133
TREASURER OF THE NAVY.
On being re-admitted to the gallery, we found
Sir J. GRAHAM addressing the house. There was considerable
confusion, but the hon. baronet was understood to say, that he should
not then propose the resolution respecting the filling up of the office
of treasurer of the navy, of which he had given notice. He should
rather wait to hear what explanations the government Shad to offer
upon the subject, and if none satisfactory were offered previous to
the vote for the salary being proposed, he should certainly propose a
resolution to the effect which he had stated.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.
The order of the day was then read for the house resolving itself
into a committee of the whole house, to consider further of the
supply to be granted to his lilajesty for the present year. The navy
estimates having been referred to the said committee, the house re-
solved itself into committee, Sir A. GRANT in the chair.

NAVY ESTIMATIS.
Sir GEORGE CLERK said, before moving fora grant on the
navy estimates, he should inform the committee that the salary of
Treasurer of the Navy was reduced one thousand pounds a year,
reducing the salary to one-half of what it was in 1797, being then
four thousand pounds a year, now but two thousand pounds. In
1826, when it was proposed by some members to abolish the office
of Treasurer of the Navy, Mr. Tierney, who held the office himself,
assured the house that it was a responsible office, and could not be
abolished. It was at that time united to the office of President of the
Board of Trade; but though a separation of the offices had since
taken place, that was not attended with any additional expense to the
public. The Treasurer of the Navy had important duties to per-
form, besides the payment of the navy bills. It was his duty to
take charge of all seamen's wills, and to attend to the paymenrof
all navy pensions. The Treasurer of the Navy was also at the head
of a commission for the management of the affairs of Greenwich
Hospital; and it was not intended during peace to fill up the office'
of paymaster of the navy, by which a further saving of 1,2001.
a year would be made. In the navy-office, two commissioners
had been reduced. In the dock-yard department there was a
saving this year of eight thousand pounds. The sum proposed to
be taken for wages this year was twenty.one thousand pounds less
than last year. It had tkequently been said that we retained more
artificers in the dock-yards than necessary ; but government
had delayed making a reduction at present, in consequence of the
present great distress and want of employment ; instead of reduc-
tion of the number of men, an allowance of sixpence a day for
ships had been taken away ; and 430 men employed at Deptford
had also been discharged. In the estimate for stores this year there
was a saving of 79,0001, There was also a saving of 15,000/. on
the wages of men in ordinary, and 19,0001. on the half-pay. (Hear.)
The Admiralty had lately come to a resolution that but one
promotion should take place for three vacancies, which in a
short time would greatly diminish the half-pay list. There
was an apparent increase in the amount necessary for widows'
pensions, which was a charge constantly on the increase, in a
great degree owing to the continuance of the pension after the re-
marriage of the widow ; in consequenee of which an alteration in
that respect was under considertion. The reduction in offices and
salaries alone since 1821, was 845 officers reduced, whose salaries
amounted to 150.240/. being one-third of the whole number of
officers, and of the whole amount of salaries in 1821. In last year
30,000 men were voted for the navy service ; but it being found
necessary to strengthen our force in the Mediterranean, au addition
was made to that number, in consequence of which our present
fotce amounted to thirty-two thousand men. He meant to propose
twenty-nine thousand for the present year at the same rate of wages
as last year. The hon. gent. moved that twenty-nine thousand men
be employed for the sea service of the present year.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, he thought the duties of the office
of Treasurer of the Navy might have been transferred to some other
office—the Commissioners of Woods and Forests foe instance, by
which the whole salary might be saved; and he should, on another
occasion, make the motion of which he had given notice.
Mr. HUME said, the hon. gentleman had mentioned many
savings, but had not mentioned the whole expense of the navy for
the present year.
Sir G. CLERK said the total estimates were 5,595,000/. making
a saving of 282,939/.
Mr. HUME said, with all the credit taken by government for
reduction, the estimates were 400,0001, more than in 1821, when
the house declared reduction to be necessary. He could not under.
stand on what ground the hon. gentleman took credit for savings in
the dock-yards, when the expense in that d ent wu nine
times as great as before the war. With to promotion, he
must protest even against one in three : we have already 5,000
officers and only 1,000 employed, and why should any new
officers be added to that number ? It was done to promote
the friends and relatives of members of parliament for the pur-
poses of corruption. With respect to widows' pensions he
thought the great abuse in that department had been checked.
It was preposterous that persons of property should be receiving
pensions from the country. He thought the 6,000,000!. paid for
pensions would never be diminished till the house came to a reso-
lution to grant no pensions but to those who were disabled in the
service of the country. When they saw such men in the list of
pensioners as Mr. Bathurst and Mr. Dundee, getting pensions of
400 and 5001. a year after three years' service, it was enough to
make every starving man in the country cry out at such a waste of
the public money—(Hear.) He (Mr. Hume) was of opinion that
the most important and best thing that could be done was to put an
end to all pensions and allowances. As to the grant of 29,000
men, he would ask if the present was the time to demand such •
number; when 30,000 were granted, it was urged in explanation
that the war in South America, the Burmese war, and the state of
Lisbon required such a number. We were then told by ministers,
that when the causes for raising this number had passed away, a
reduction would take place. The bon. member then went into a
statement as to the relative numbers required in peace and war, con-
tending that It was perfectly unintelligible to him why so many men
were required, at a period when it was stated by his Majesty that
we were at peace with every other power and in support of his ar-
gument, quoted the evidence of the finance committee of 1819,
where it was stated that no effective reduction of charge could take
place without a reduction of number; at all events, he should
move that the vote be put for six months instead of twelve, via._
from the Ist of January to the 30th day of June.
Sir 0. COCKBURN explained as to the statements made about
the extent of numbers during peace. He had certainly said, when
examined by the finance committee, that if England wan not likely
to go to war with other powers, and had no dread of piracy, nor was
under soy sort of fear or contrail on the high seas, then she need
not have a single man of war out at sea; that had been drawn out
of him; surely no menthes of the house could say that England at
present was in that state. By keeping up the mating force we were
adopting a most efficient means of keeping up both army and navy,
for the marina was kept usually three years at sea, and.the Mowing
diree he was engaged in land setvice.
Sir G. WARRENDER thought that he had convinced the hon.
member (Mr. Hume) ten years ago, that, by keeping up an effective
marine service, was the best plan hat could be adopted; he com-
plained, however, that young men in a branch of the civil service
should, after three years,
.be entitled to pensions on a par with old
and distinguisLed officers. [The hen. baroiet was understood to
allude to the navy consmissionsm]
Mr. LAIN RICHER* the amendment of Mr. Hume.
Mr. MABERLY sold, tilt the country was debtor to the pen.
sion list to the extent of 66,0001. Hs did not wish to mention
names, but if any member would look at the list he held in his
hand, he would see that a young man, after three years' service, had
teen pensioned off at 5001. per annum. Was that the way, be
would ask, that economy was to be enforced P Then, as to the
29,000 men required, why, in 1817, the amount was only 19,000.
What, he would ask, were the circumstances which warranted, at
the present time, an additional 10,000 ? He did riot belieire that
ministers could thew sufficient cause for such an income,
Mr. PEEL defended the marine service, and said obit Chars went
, urgent reasons at all times to keep up an of visas 'MU, in tint 4
partment. We were in the only way of maiotainintrote bur
Mg up an efficient naval force. The eircumstinell
.104 aldit
keep up such force enabkd England to prisms i dijpdtyln has
tone which otherwise would be lost. The events ad bet rear so.
quirtd such a force. France had in die Mediromplletialaireverti
had the same ; and what had England ? only sighs.

auumed a belligerent position as regarded Turkey, which also called
upon us to keep up our forces; the coast blockade had also been
another cause of increase. Before he sat down, however, he had the
satisfaction of Informing the house, that the office of comptroller of
the army accounts had been declared vacant, and it a•;,s nut the in-
tention of his majesty's ministers to fill it up. bu• to abolish the
office altogether. The noble duke in whose hands was placed the
government of Ireland had also signified his intention of reduch g his
income from 27,0001. to 90,0001. viz. to the standard of 1792 --thus
making a saving to the country of 7,0001. annually.
Sir JAMES GRANT, in reference to what had fallen from him
in a previous part of the debate, as to a vote of censure on his
majesty's ministers, for the manner in which they had filled up the
office of treasurerof the navy, observed that he could call the atten.
Lion of the House to the motion at some other opportunity. He
was not disposed at present to vote for a reduction in the number of
men, and should vote for the amendment. By the end of six
months present clouds would perhaps have passed away, and he
might then be better able to vote for a reduction in the number of

After a few words from Mr. PEEL,
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON, said he should not vo:e for an,
reduction in the number of men at present.
Sir R. WILSON spoke against a reduction, seeing Spain was at
war with South America, and when Russia had such a force in the
Black Sea ; and France so great a one in the Levant.
After a few words from Sir J. WROTTESLEY, Sir GEORGE
Ctrart and Mr. LAME,
The house divided on the question, alien the numbers were
For the motion. l4B
Against it. 47
Majority
—lOl
Mr. HUME trusted that no further estimates would be moved
to-night. The number of men was voted—a bill cou:d be brought
in—where would be the impediment ? He did not want to throw
impediments in the way of the service.
The house resumed.—Report to-morrow.

NEW STAMP BILL.
Mr. R. GORDON asked whether there was to be any new stamp
duty, a new wale of legacy duties, &c. ; he knew, indeed, that such
a bill had been drawn ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that the
subject had in former sessions been before the house ; and that a ,
consolidation of the stamp laws was contemplated and he would
bring forward the measure early.
The house went into a committee of ways and means.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved grants for
12,000,0001. and other sums, to pay off Exchequer Bills.
31r. HUME urged the necessity of seeing whether the debt could
net be managed for a much leas sum than was now charged by the
Bank ; several hundred thousands might be saved to the country.
House resumed.—Heport to.morrow.
The remaining orders having been disposed t.f, the house ad.
journed at HALF-PAST ONE O'CLOCK.

MINORITY on Earl Stanhope's Motion for an Inquiry into the
Internal State of the Country.
Dukes. Romney Rivers
Richmond Radnor Northwich
Newcastle DiFby Redesdale
Marquis. Winchilsea Orantley
Aylesbury Falmouth Teynbain
Larls. Carnarvon Wodehouse
Eldon Stradbroke Walsingham
Stanhope Bradford Stowell
Tankerville Barons. Kenyon.
Ferrets Churchill