Star.
London, England, 1830-05-29 00:00:00

rTART WORK.

Mr. O'CONNlCLEidi,herose for the purpose of asking
for leave to bring in a bill for the reform of the Commons
House of Pediment ; and although he felt by ao means very
confident of success that night, yet he had the consolation of
knowing that the principles of reform were ring amongst
the people, and must eventually succeed as MI as to-morrow's
sun would shine from the Heavens. It was not pleasant to him to
be arraigning the oligarchical confederacy, by whom the rights of
the people were usurped.; but he bad a duty to perform, which he
was resolved to execute. His first object was to show that abuses
existed in the representation, and if he failed in doing this, he was
conscious that he must fail in making out his ease. His next ob.
jest was to point outs remedy. In order to establish his first po.
sition, be felt it would be unnecessary to enter into a discussion on
the fact that might be assumed, that the constitution consisted of
particle of
and Commons. He could not admit that one
of the popular part of the Constitution should be
abated, for be felt there should be a regular reward for the
laudable ambition of those tram whom the one great branch of power
was so advantageously removed out of the reach of contention by the
the
of our constitution. On the other hand, be revered his
and be felt that the democratic principle was well balanced by
the ly authority. It was for the right of constitutional repre-
sentation which he meant to contend. It was coeval with the
people, and depended neither upon the king nor upon the peers. It
was u him to prove ibis. It was for tlaoes who
sump age those undoubted rights, to prove the con-
According to the principles id down by Judge
Blackstose, the sovereignty an this country, as well as in
every other, was in the people, and according to the same authority,
the right of voting should be in all, except in those who were r
situated as to render it unlikely that they could exercise a will of
their own, uncontrolled by the authority of those who were in

any shape plead over than. In bringing this subject before the
bowie, he meant not to depart one iota from the British CAM.
Whiting, but at the same time he would be satisfied with no.
thing less than all of it. (Hear, bear.) Since he had entered
that house he had heard that this person and that person were re-
turned by Lord this and Lord that; indeed, theta* wee notorious,
for a petition formerly presented to the house stated that 249
members were returned to that house by peers—that 159 were re-
turned by commoners since become peers, besides those which
was returned by means of government boroughs. It was then im.
possible to deny the existence of these abuses, which were offered to
be proved at the bar, though the offer was refused. It could not be
denied that peen nominated and returned members to the house, and
therefore it must be admitted that abuses existed in the ram-
sentatioa. It was declared, no less than 200 times, to be a high
infringement of the :tits of the people, for any peer or prelate to
interfere with the return of members to that house. It was, not-
withstanding, stated in the house, and the fact was notorious,—
(hear, hear) that seats were sold like stalls in Smithfield—(hear);
and one patriotic baronet had openly stated the sum Ire had given
for his to a peer who was a minor. The seats in that house had a
marketable and variable value, like any other commodity. If, then,
one-half of the seats were bought, and the other half filled at the no-
Manion of peers, how •was it possible to deny the existence of
glaring abuses; and if they could not be denied, how was it pos-
sible to defend them ? The Irish representation was not so venalas
the English, for there were only 19 out of 100 of the Irish members
who were nominated by individuals. It might be said that the
system melted well, but that assertion he would at once deny. lie
could chew that the money of the people was turned against
themselves, for no less than one hundred and eighty thousand
pounds was spent in purchasing the votes of their representatives.
In the case of lien. King, who held a situation which he was paid
for by the money of the ple, he had an undeniable proof of his
positices,•for the Galena! having dared to vote against Ministers,
was dismissed from his situation, and no doubt but his successor
would meet: with the same fate if he was not more careful in voting
rather according to the wishes of Ministers than according to his
own conscience. He admitted that formerly more members of that
house were in the receipt of the public money than were now—he
.admitted that the house was formerly more corrupt than it was at
present; but then, if Ministers disposed of less money in this way,
had they not much greater patronage at their command. (Hear. j
The army, consisting of 100,000 men, the navy, the bar, the excise,
and the countless other branches through which it was distributed,
gave them a power of purchasing votes in that house fully equivalent
to what they had lost by the diminution of pecuniary purchases.-
-Repeated attempts had been made by legal men to effect a legal re.
form ; but such were the oppositions which the system of abuse
threw in the way, that every attempt, however well intended, and
however zealously pursued, always ended in a monstrous abortion.—
(Hear, hear.) What was the remedy? The remedy he had to
propose was perfectly constitutional. Ile thought the dura-
tion of Parliament was too long, and he would propose to
shorten it —(Hear.) He had no objection to triennial Parliaments.
In early times the Parliaments were annual--by statute of Edward
the Third, the Parliament was to be called together annually ; he
knew therewas a dispute whether that meant the election of a new
Parliament every year, or the annual meeting of the same Parlia-
ment; but he could not discuss the question. Ile did not wish to
occupy the house with antiquarian research, but would take the
duration fixed by the Act of William, about which there could be
no dispute.--(Hear.)--The next remedy was an extension of the
right of suffrage. Nothing could be more open, even to ridicule,
than the present state of the qualification of electors. In England,
a freehold of des. gave a vote for county members ; in Ireland, the
qualification was 101. ; and in Scotland it was a feudal tenure--
He would propose that every man of full age, not tainted by crime,
and in possession of his reason, should have a right to •vote. The
king and peers were eaempurd from thentietif equality, and thew
could be no other privileged class in the land. (Hear.) There
was no distinztion of cast or colour amongst Englishmen—all had
their right., and the vote by ballot would give security to its rm.
dm. He thanked the house for their patient attention to an insig-
nificant individual. He moved that leave should be given to
brit.g in a bill fur the effectual and radical reform of the representa-
tion of the people in the Commons Howe of Parliament.—(Hear.)
Captain DUNDAS said exertions were making all over the court.
try to prove that the House of Commons were every day becoming
less mindful of its duty to the people. He would admit that the
right of election throughout this kingdom was not the most uniform
nor popular; but it was a system that had adapted itself to the
wants of the people in all ages of our history. The rights of
the people were admitted to be coeval with prerogative, and had,
when necessary, been maintained by arms. The popular part of
the community continued to exert its proper share in the legislation.
He thought the proposal of the hon. member for Clare did not go
far enough on his own principles, for as property was power it
should go to prevent the accumulation of wealth in the hands of
individuals ; he believed the hon. member would not object to such
lmislation, but it would be wholly inconsistent with the existence
ofthe monarchy; and he did not believe there were more than a
dozen members in the house who would support it. He thought
the passage of the Catholic relief bill was a proof of the popular
feeling of the House of Commons. But as long as the aristocracy
was considered a part of the Constitution, and possessed wealth,
they would possess influencein elections ; nd though after such a
reform as the hon. gent. proposed they might not exert that intba.
wee as directly as at present, it would be exerted in a manner more
brjurious to morals.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the motion of the hoer. member
placed him under some embarrassment. He had brought forward
the question of reform till he despaired of success. The hon. and
learned gentleman had proposed areform founded on three principles,
triennial perllements, -universal suffrage., sod voting by ballot, to
all of which be disagreed. He should therefore oppose the motion
of the learned gentleman, but after that motion should be disposed
of, be should submit a motion for reform on the principles he had
always supported. The triennial duration of parliament was a
• point that might be debated, and might be gmerally approved of;
but voting by ballot, and universal suffrage, though it might'
answer in America, yet considering the existence of a monarchy
and aristocracy, and the state of property in this country, he
could not but fear that their co-existence must produce a collision
which would end in a democratic goverment or an absolute mo-
narchye—(hear. hear.) He should now offer some observations on
the resolutions for parliamentary reform which he meant to propose.
The first would be to extend the basis of the representation.—
Tbe want of representatives of the great manufacturing, and
trading towns, was one of the greatest practical defects of the pre-
sent system. There were a number of manufacturing, trading, and
populous towns, which he thought ought to be admitted to send
representatives to that house. He would mention Manchester, Bit.
mingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Masclesfield, Whitehaven, Sunderland,
Cheltenham, and Brighton. Most of these were manufacturing and
trading towns, and all wereporulons towns, and, he thought, should
be represented. flesh° thought that Edinburgh, Glasgow, and
Belfastobould be allowed to have a popular representation. The
large counties, be also thought, should have additional representa-
tives, which be would propose should be given by a division of the
counties into two parts, giving each part two representatives. This
would make a large addition to the numbers of the house, and he
would propose to keep the number to the present amount by taking
off one representative from all those boroughs that had leas than 2500,
inhabitants. We were now told, that we were not so corrupt as in
the reign of George the First and Second, when there were 250 mem.
beta of that House who bald places. He had looked into the divi-
sions ethos, days, and found•that the grants of the people's money
wesoinuch monsfrugally made than at present. (Hear, heat).—
From a comparison of the two periods,its was confident it was better
for the people to live under the tamp parliament of that day, than
under the -pure paclimenta*s pmeat don. In the administra-
tion of Sir R. Walpole, MAUL was mfficlent fee the military
force of all the colonies, whisk was now scarcely sufficient for the
lonian Islands. However mash we might boost of our superior pu-
rity, it was certain that perlimmat, in die time of Sir R. Walpole,
was a more faithfulguardian ref the public purse than at present.
This might be proved by the conduct a the government, who
had, in the two last years, reduced the estimates 2,000,000 L If
the house bad done Its duty, ft would keg Mat have re.
dead the estimates much more than 2,000,0001. (Hear, bear.)
He was aerate that the reform he was about to propose would not
satisfy either the radical Edemas or those who opposed all reform ;
but be conceived that the resolution which be had too were
calculated to unite the people and the house, and to ye ml ceased
effect to lthelr maths* In the cause of liberty. hon. and
learned gentleman lied sequined himself with gran talent and
temper, but he differed with him on prineipk„ and must therefore
oppose the modes. •
Mr..S.WORTLEY said, the
esmi Odle horn. and learned gent.
had nothing *o es der in it from him. It was of the same
ebnieeter as these be bed media plasm, mead had the game ob-
ject, vii. to excialeall iniemee d from the hewn of coin.
mess. If universalise/nee meg we shell semi have a
Ovvenment by a HmegaCeminene, instead of a Cenaltution
King, Lords, and Comm. He malanbed that, Mammy km.
portant occasions, it was the duty of the ve ma hi sp.
position to the will of Mg constituents. In Ai
wee not universal in on dig stela, mid *se. thewlinitt
direct briberh which the want d Maier Wait pommy yet voting
by ballot did not prevent Inlingneg being cussed in a enamor that
was unknown to this country.
Lord ALTHORP said, that the bon. and Wend spedemen's
plan was CO:ICW in these three pointe-..mthoedes peeneemete,
chitties by and universal gaffing; no dangler anal tz:
'Willey arise from the Ant ; be should, Walden, mimes doe
of it as he had ems en fanner occasions. This vespadagelesdee
by ballot he *add give it bin vote alga ffie thus ming to the
other point, universal soffisge, whisk mean Weir teem nor less
than radical reform. Were the pies of the ilmengebie and lamed
gentleman to give W the peep* tha inftsnes in the boos

which they ought to enjoy, he should support even this put of his
motion, for his opinion was, that not only one class but nay class
in the country ought to be represented; but he was persuaded that
would not be the tenth of what was termed universal ',dew,.
Of the hon. andlearned gentleman's three propositions he (Lord
Althorp) agreed with two • with one he differed, sod it ran so clue.
oe was so identified with dm others, that, n the whole, he esulf
not support the measure as it was to the house.
Lord VA LLETORT end Mr. '0 ft IEN said a few woods in op.
position to the motion.
Mr. 11011 HOUSE said that he should trespau as little as few
ble on the patience of the house ; he should at once say, that he
should vote for the motion of the honourable and learned gentle.
man; he had the precedent of a great man, now no more, tor
his example ; he meant Mr. Fox, who again had Mr. Pitt a,
his precedent in the year 178(i.—(Hear, hear.)—He should quote
the words of Mr. Fox on the subject of eformation He stated thee,
wheh they were no more they were well spoken of by the er.
lightened part of the country ; but even of Fox, in his lifetimes
was lie designated the enemy of the King, and the free interest,
of the country, and who, night after night, fighting in the cause of
reform, was even in danger of being arrested as a dissatisfied
person. Hon. gents. now on both sides of the house quoted Mr.
Fox ; so n.uch for the advance of reform principles. (lieu)
One thing was clear, that that was the best system of reform upon
which the greatest number of reformers agreed ; now it would sl.
pear, that for such a reform, or nearly such a reform as that pro.
posed, one million and a half of persons had petitioned the house,
in the years from 1817 to 18111; be was satisfied that without bJ.
lot, there would be nothing like fair election, and that with it no
great harm would arise ; he should vote for the motion of the hot.
and learned gentleman.
Sir hOBRRT PEEL said that the subject before the house
had been fairly exhausted on other occasions of a similar ca.
Lure. He should, therefore, confine himself to the specific pro.
positions before the house. The honourable and learned gentle.
man stated in the outset that septennial parliaments were a usutps.
tion of triennial ones. He denied that they were so ; but 11'114
were the fact, ft could not be relied on as a reason for return.
ing again to them; but he was against a triennial parliament
on another gtound, namely, the ground of expense. Then, in re.
fermate to voting by ballot, he confessed his objections to that westconfirmed by what he haeheard urged in its behalf. He doubted
the policy of the measure—he thought it would afford a cover 6r
hypocrisy, and prevent that free discussion of the merits of can.
didates, which was so essential a right of the people. If the hen.
gentleman means to say that he will mend the constitution by urn.
versal suffrage, he (Sir R. Peel) denied that such would be the re.
suit. In conclusion, lie said he could not think that there was the
grievance made out which would warrant the opinion that a reform
was required.
Mr. BROUGHAM said he must oppose the motion, differing as
he did from so large a portion of it, and the sentiments with which
it was supported ' • hut he should support the motion of the noble
lord. With the bulk of the promised resolutions be, nevertheless,
agreed. The division of counties was, in some instances, adviseable.
Nor could he agree in the opinion that; reform such as this would
be despised by the reformers. The reformers were not so senseless.
so narrow-minded, and so intolerant as to avow themselves dissatis.
fled with such reform. They might not be fully satisfied with it,
but they would not complain of it. (Hear, hear.) As to short.
ening the duration of Parliament—if nothing else were done—
he should view it as an evil; it would in reality increase the is.
&trace of the crown. If with shortening the duration of Praha.
cent, there were to be reform, that would lessen the expenses of
elections, it would be beneficial.—( Hear.) He also differed on the
subject of ballot. He had great doubt on the subject, and he spoke
with some confidence because he had passed through four con-
tested election.. If the voters voted by ballot against their pre.
mises, would not they be watched ? and if they were suspected
—only suspected—would they not be oppressed by their land.
lords ?--(Hear.) The hon. and learned gentleman said " hear;
he supposed bad landlords, because otherwise the ballot would not
be wanted. If they only became suspected, would not the landlords,
supposing the tenants were not turned out of their farms, be pre-
vented from again attending the poUs ? To him the vote by ballot
appeared to be most extravagant and chimerical—(Cheers.) It
would be be still farther pernicious; it would create hypocrites, and
snake our lives one continued lie.—(Cheers.) And could a nun be
false for years, on one and one subject only : trust and credit he
would not deserve. and would not receive.Thue were reasons for not
doubting, but foe disbelieving in the efficacy of the ballot.—(Hear.)
Mr. OI:ONNELL replied, it was remarkable that be was op-
posed by both sides; they had had an excellent debate between
them, but they had touched anything but his motion. The amend-
ment bad been debated. Was that a fair way of meeting the qua.
tion, of treating the principles of reform ? However, he would see y,
that any reform that was proposed, be it ever so small, he would
support ft. As to the evils of ballot, they were as Imaginary as
they were facetious. He had been met by a by-battle that was not
to be fought : every reformer ought to have supported his motion
' for the bill—(Hear, bar.)—He had proved his case of abuse—the
only difference was as to the remedy.
the gallery was then cleared for a division. The numbers

For the modest
Against
Majority.
Previously to the re-admission of strangers, the house MOW
on Lord .1. Russell's resolutions. The numbers were--

For the motion
Against it .. 213

Majority.
The remaining orders having been disposed of, the boa's a+.•
}slurried at Halfpast Three o'clock.

The following are among the projects attributed to the
Polignae Ministry, by the Parisian correspondent of
morning paper :
To assemble the Chambers, as proposed, on the 3d of
August—to prepare a royal speech reproaching the last
Chamber, and gently threatening the new one—re-
minding it of the fate of the old one, and of the deter-
mination of the King to dissolve the new Chamber should
it vote an " insolent" Address, or attempt to refuse the
Budget.
As the first measure of the Session, to present the
Budget, in case the Address should not be " insolent."
If the Address should be " insolent," forthwith to dis-
solve the New Chamber. But if otherwise, then to dis-
cuss the Budget—and if rejected, to dissolve the Cham-
bers—if accepted, even though reduced in amount, to
adjourn the Chambers until February.
Should the Budget be refused en masse, or the Ad-
dress be insolent—to proceed to new elections —to 41e-
prive, by Royal Ordonnance, all electors of the right t
vote by virtue of their patents, thus reducing most con-
siderably the number of voters, because thus depriving a
great number of shopkeepers and traders of their quali-
fications, and consequently of their rite to vote. To
make another Ordonnance, prohibiting the election of any
Deputy who joined the Napoleon party during the 10°
days in 1815—and even naming certain Members of the
Extreme Gauche as ineligible.
In order to provide for the expences of the State, and
for " its surety," under the 14th Article of the Charter,
which grants to the King the right of making Onion
nances, to issue " Bons Itoyaux," or Exchequer Bills.
and to levy all the indirect taxes by Ordonnance.
In the event of resistance to the payment of indirect
taxes, to enforce their payment by summary measures,
and to appeal to Military Law !
To convoke the second new Chamber of Deputies for
the month of December—to pursue the same line of con-
duct as that proposed to be adopted with the Chamber in
August—and in the event of a renewed opposition to the
Budget, to suspend the Charter—establish Military Lae
—appeal to Foreign Powers—put down the Revolution
by force, and eventually revive the Ckarter and form a
new Constitution for France.
The Supreme Court of Zurich recently condemned a
fraudulent bankrupt to stand in the pillory for an hour,
to be imprisoned twelve years, to lose his rights of citi-
zenship for life, and to pay with his fortune for the ex-
penses of the trial.
The Gasettee of Prussia speaks of a custom-house
officer, 112 years old, who has been in active service for
87 years, and still performs his duties in the most satis-
factory manner.
Two young Arabs, about thirteen years old, have
arrived at Geneva, where they have been sent by the
Pacha of Egypt to ham watchmaking. 'rheas
have been apprenticed to a watchmaker at Chahai I
French village not far from Dordogne.

.c was persuaded that
tcr,ned universal suffrage.
bra propositions he (Lord
differed, and it ran so clus.,
; upon the whole, he couli
need to the house.
IEN said a few words Mop.
Id trespau as little as pOste.
hould at once say, that he
urable and learned gentle,
at man, now no mote, to,
rho again had Mr. Pitt a,
r, hear.)—He should quote
reformation He stated the
well spoken of by the er.
rn of Fox, in his lifetimes
:ing, and the free interest,
;lit, fighting in the cause of
; arrested as a dissotibfied
re of the house quoted Me,
reform principles. (hear.)
best system of reform upon
agreed ; now ic would ay.
uch a reform as that pro.
I had petitioned the house,
s satisfied that without bal.
lection, and that with it no
for the motion of the hor.
re subject before the house
ucasions of a similar ea.
timaelf to the specific pro.
arable and learned gentle.
parliaments were a usutps.
they were so ; but if such
on as a reason for return.
ainst a triennial parliament
of expense. Then, in in.
I his objections to that were
in its behalf. He doubted
it would afford a cover So
baton of the merits of can.
of the people. If the her.
rid the constitution by um.
that such would be the re.
not think that there was the
nt the opinion that a reform
pose the motion, differing as
a the sentiments with which
sort the motion of the noble
resolutions be, nevertheless,
n some instances, adviseable.
reform such as this would
mmers were not so senseless. •
to avow themselves dissatis.
tot be fully satisfied with it,
'Hear, hear.) As to short.
f nothing else were done—
in reality increase the in.
ing the duration of Paths.
sold lessen the expenses of
tr.) He also differed on the
on the subject, and he spoke
I passed through four con.
by ballot against their pre.
end if they were suspected
oppressed by their land.
gentleman said " hear
erwise the ballot would not
eel, would not the landlords,
out of their farms, be pre.
To him the vote by ballot
ehimerical—(Cheer.) It
would create hypocrites, and
leas.) And could a man be
t only : trust and credit he
e.These were reasons for not
racy of the ballot.—(Hear.)
remarkable that be was op.
In excellent debate between
at his motion. The amend.
fir way of meeting the qua.
? However, he would uy,
it ever so small, he woo
they were as Imaginary as
by a by.battle that was not
have supported his motion
roved his case of abuse—ibe
division. The numb's
13
319
tran:unigers,ben ....twheere_bou3"se divided
117
..... 513
96
disposed of, the homes ad.
manne
orojects attributed to the
dan correspondent of v
proposed, on the 3d of
1 reproaching the loci
rig the new one—re-
one, and of the deter-
[se new Chamber should
attempt to refuse the
easion, to present the
tld not be " insolent."
ent," forthwith to die-
' otherwise, then to dis-
to dissolve the Chant-
reduced in amount, to
iary.
en masse, or the Ad-
new elections —to 41e-
electors of the right t
nu reducing most con-
xause thus depriving a
traders of their quali-
their rite to vote. To
iting the election of any
party during the 10
certain Members of tbe
ences of the State, and
Article of the Charter,
lit of making Onion
" or Exchequer Bills.
y Ordonnance.
he payment of indirect
by summary measures,
•
amber of Deputies for
e the same line of cou-
d with the Chamber in
newed opposition to the
establish Military Lae
t down the Revolution
e Charter and form a
recently condemned a
the pillory for an hour,
lose his rights of cid'
his fortune for the ex-
iks of a custom-house
ren in active service tot
Mies in the most satis-
icteen years old, bare
have been sent by the
'king. These chikine
tchmaker at Chan', I
kr".