Star.
London, England, 1813-06-15 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS..

HOUSE OF LORDS, 3UNE 14.
in the Appeal Cause " Tompkins sr. the Attorney General of
Ireland." Mr. Scarlet and Mr. Richards, were heard for the
.Appellant, and the Solicitor General and Mr. Abbott, for the
Respondents ; when judgment was deferred till Wednesday.
• The case of " Craigdallie v. Ackman and others," was remit-
ted to the Interior Court for the reconsideration of the Court of

Session.
Upon the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, It was
agreed that the Standing Order relative to the attendance bf the
Peers at ten o'clock, for the dispatch of judicial business, ape-
cially on the first day of meeting after a recess, when it was peen..
!lady inconvenient for the Noble Lord, to take the Woolsack so
early, be taken into consideration on Wednesday next.
Sir Jauras Gana/at and others, from the Comtnons, brought
up a variety of Bills, public and private, among the former of
which, were the Glass, Hyde., Tobacco, and Suaff Regulation,
the Irish Mail Coaches and the Election Writs Conveyance Bills,

all of which were read the first time:
Mr. Kennedy, from the Court of Exchequer in Ireland, pre-
sented papers, which were ordered to lie on the table.
Earl GREY presented a Petition from the Merchants,Traders,
Shopkeepers, and others of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, complaining
of the prevalence of auctions,by which the Regular Traders were
materially injured. His Lordship had not entered so far into the
merits of the Petition as at present to be able to give a decided
opinion concerning it, but from the number, character, and re-
spectability of the persons by whom it was signed, be thought it
deserving the attention of their Lordships.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE thought the subject of the Pe.
tition just presented by the Noble Earl highly entitled to the se-
rious comideration of their Lordships, especially at a time like
the present, when the burden of taxation bore so heavily on all
dames of the Community, particularly upon shopkeepers, whose
situation was such that unless the practice complained of by the
Petitioners were corrected, they would be utterly unable to pro-
ceed in their regular business, or to compete with their irregular

and itinerant opposers.
The Petition was ordered to lie on the table.
The Marquis of DOUGLAS presented a Petition from cer-
tain Dissenting Ministers in Scotland, for permission to promote
and extend Christian Knowledge in India.
The Committee on the Highways Bill was postponed till Friday.
SWEDISH TREATY.

Earl GREY was desirous, before they proceeded
with any farther business, to put some questions. to
the Noble Earl opposite (Liverpool) with respect to
the Treaty with Sweden, lately laid on their Lord-
ships' Table ; because some additional information
was indispensably necessary for the due consideration
of that Treaty. In the Second Article it was stated,
" that his Britannic Majesty promised and engaged
to accede to the conventions already existing between
Russia and Sweden, insomuch that his Britannic Ma.
jesty would not only not oppose any obstacle to the
annexation and union in perpetuity of the kingdom
of Norway, as an integral tun of the kingdom of
Sweden, but also would assist the views of his Ma.
jesty the King of Sweden to that effect, either by his
good offices, or by employing, if it should be neces-
sary,his naval co-operation, in concert with the Swe-
dish or Russian forces. It was, nevertheless, under-
stood, that recourse should not be had to force for
' effecting the union of Norway to Sweden, unless his
Majesty the King of Denmark should have previ-
ously refused to join the alliance of the North, upon
the conditions stipulated in the engagements subsist-
ing between the Courts of Stockholm and St. Peters-
burgh." By this Article, then, Great Britain was
bound to co-operate by force, if necessary, in obliging
Denmark to give up Norway, that valuable part of
its possessions, to Sweden, in the event of the Court
of Copenhagen refusing to accede to the Northern
alliance, upon certain terms and conditions, not as
yet known to their Lordships. Now, without wish.
ing to raise any discussion it resent, or giving ex-
pression to those feelings which the bare perusal of
such an engagement, as it appeared upon the face of
the Treaty, naturally excited, he wished to be infor-
med, what were the conditions in the alliance be-
tween Russia and Sweden, upon the failure of acce-
ding to which, Denmark was to be deprived of Nor-
way by force, and that country to be for ever united
to the kingdom of Sweden ? He wished to know
this, because, without such information, it was ut-
terly impossible to judge of the whole merits of the
question ; and, therefore, he trusted the Noble Earl
would agree to lay the Treaty between Russia and
Sweden on the table before the discussion. To that
he could anticipate no objection.—But there were
other points upon which it was material also to have
the fullest information. They who had with just in-
dignation reprobated the principle of dismemberment
and partition, under the pretence of moral or physi-
cal convenience, in rendering defence more easy, or
security more complete—they, who had considered
such principles (or rather such a want of all prin-
ciple) as subversive of all right and all justice, ought
to know, distinctly to know upon what grounds they
proceeded, before they entered into any engagement,
or gave their sanction to any treaty, that appeared
in any degree to recognize the political doctrine
against which they had so warmly protested. Their
Lordships ought therefore to know what had lately
passed between the Court of Copenhagen and our
Government. We were now unfortunately embar-
ked in a war with Denmark—upon what grounds,
and originating in what causes, he would not then
stop to inquire ; but if this country still rested in any
degree upon that character for justice and generosity
which he hoped it would always maintain, it ought
to evince every disposition to put an end to that con-
test, if terms were offered consistent with its honour
and safety. We did know the fact, that a Danish
Minister had come to England ; we knew that a sus-
pension of hostilities, on the part of Denmark, had
taken place, until the Court of Copenhagen could
ascertain the result of his mission ; we knew that this
Minister was soon dismissed, and hostilities then re-
commenced ; nay, we knew more than that—not
only had hostilities been suspended, but, as a proof
of the sincerity of the Danish Government, in the
propositions for reconciliation made by them, that
Danish troops advanced to Hamburgb, and fought
in its defence against the common enemy, which
Sweden had not as yet done. But when Great Bri-
tain refused to enter into any negotiation, the Danish
troops were withdrawn ; and that Power which had
by this direct act manifested its resolution to co-ope-
rate against the common enemy, immediately lent its
assistance to the accomplishment of the views of that
enemy, and the Danish and French troops took pos-
session of Hamburgh together. These facts they
knew, and it was impossible that they could come
well prepared to the discussion of this Treaty, until
they were informed of the nature of the Danish pro-
positions, and the reasons for which they had been
rejected. He hoped, therefore, the Noble Earl would
have no objection to produce the correspondence be-
tween the Danish Minister and our Government. It

was isopos*ibla for him to pretead 4ecrecy as a ground

al refusal, for there could be no secrecy in the matter.
But, at what time were they called upon to consider
;this treaty t He Was now speaking on the 14th of
hoe; and this treaty, which, it was to be feared,
Haight form an addition to the long list of errors and
crimes, of which the present Ministers were guilty,
had been signed on the 3d of March. He wished,
then, to know, how it came, that the treaty bad.not
sooner been laid on the tablet—why it had been de-
layed till a period of the session when they were not
so likely to have that full attendance which the im-
portance of the subject demanded ?—There was ano-
ther point also, with respect to which it was highly
fitting that some information should be given. They
were now come to a time when Sweden, considering
the sacrifices made, and to be made, by this country,
under this treaty, might be expected to have made
some progress in the fulfilment of the engagements'
on her part, for which we were to pay so great a
price. He asked thenl for information as to the I
practical steps which had been taken by Sweden,
pursuant to her engagements? He wished to know
what troops Sweden had landed on the Continent
what directly offensive operations against the com-
mon enemy she had commenced ?/—or whether at,'
unjustifiable delay had taken place in that respect ?
Upon these points their Lordships must have the
fullest information, before they could come to the
discussion with the proper degree of preparation.—
The first point was the most important; and he was
particularly anxious, in regard to that, to have the
fullest possible information. He likewise wished to
know, what sum had been actually paid to the Swe-
dish Government upon the ground of this Treaty ?
He thought too, that, in order to have a complete
view of the whole subject, they ought to have on the
table our engagements with Russia and other Foreign
Powers ; for without this, it would be impossible to
enter upon the consideration of the question in that
ample manner which the nature and importance of
the subject required. This was not to be considered
upon the isolated ground of our relations with Swe-
den; before they could come to a just conclusion on
that single point, looking at the matter in a large and
statesmanlike view, they must take into consideration
the whole of our foreign relations, and the general
grounds of our foreign policy. To enable them to
do that with effect, he now called upon the Noble
Earl for the fullest information upon the several points
to which he adverted ; and more particularly upon
the first point, which was unquestionably by far the
most important.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL.—The course which
had been taken by the Noble Earl, in proposing his
questions, and asking for information, might justify
him in entering into the subject much more largely
than would suffice for a mere answer ; but still he
would not anticipate the discussion. The day was
not far distant, when his Majesty's Servants would
have an opportunity of explaining fully the grounds
of this Treaty with Sweden, and the views of policy
by which they had been actuated in regard to the
rest of our continental relations. But till the proper
time arrived for giving that explanation, he only ye-
quested their Lordships to suspend their judgment,
and not condemn either Ministers or the Foreign
Powers with which this country was connected, until
the whole subject was before them. He would at
present content himself with positively affirming, in
behalf of his Majesty's servants, that they had pro-
ceeded upon no such principle of policy as that to
which the Noble Earl had adverted; that they had
never sanctioned any such principle ; they had never
engaged in war without a legitimate ground of hos-
tility ; and in the whole of their foreign policy, and
in all their engagements, had preserved the most
scrupulous good faith, and acted in conformity to the
best interests of Europe and their country. With
respect to the first point to which the Noble Earl had
called their Lordships' attention—the engagements
between Russia and Sweden—Ministers, as far as
they were concerned, could have no objection what-
ever to lay the Treaty upon their Lordships' table ;
but as that document had not been communicated to
them upon authority, he did not feel himself justil
in acceding to the desire of the Noble Earl upon that
head ; but at the same time, he was perfectly ready
to go as far as his sense of duty would permit, and,
therefore, had no objection to lay upon the table the
substance of that article to which the present Treaty
referred, which he presumed would answer the Noble
Earl's purpose as completely as if the whole had been,
produced. % ith respect to the correspondence with
the Danish Minister, be did not deny, but was per-
fectly ready to admit, that a proposition had been
made to put an end to the war between the two na-
tions ; but he need hardly state, that, it the proposi.
tion was subversive of other engagements on our part,
or if, though in other respects admissible, it was such
as, from its own nature, could not possibly have been
accepted, our Government would not have been jus-
tified in listening to any such proposal. He had ob-
jections, however, to the production of the corres.
pondence that took place on that subject, as it invol-
ved topics, which it disclosed might be prejudicial
to other Powers, with whom, whether at war or
peace, our liberality and national honour required that
we should preserve the most inviolable good faith.
But the information required on this particular point,
was not necessary for the due consideration of the
present Treaty. The question was, whether these
engagements with Sweden were consistent with a
just regard to good faith, and founded upon sound
views of national policy ; and upon these grounds
he was perfectly prepared to defend the Treaty. But
he at the same time fully agreed with the Noble Earl,
that it was to be taken in connection with the rest
of our foreign relations—with the circumstances of
the war in which we were engaged, and the past
and present state of the European Continent.—
With respect to the third point, which related to the
time at which the Treaty was laid on the table, their
Lordships would'consider, that the time at which the
Treaty could be produced, depended not upon the
period at which it was signed, but upon the period of
its ratification; and the ratified Treaty had not reach-
ed this country till the 10th of May ; and some sub-
sequent discussions had taken place, which rendered
it inexpedient to lay it on the table sooner than the
day on which he had brought it down to their Lord-
ships' House. The next question put by the Noble
Earl related to the conduct of Sweden, and the pro-
gress made by that Power in carrying into effect her
engagements with this country. He would not now
enter into any detailed statements on that point, but
reserve what he had to say until the subject of the

'treaty came regularly under discussion, Ite could
not, however, allow the present opportunity to pass,
without saying, that as far as the t;me allowed, then:
was the most complete fulfilment of her engagetneres
on the part of Sweden, With respect to the moiler
already advanced to Sweden, he had no objection
whatever to lay upon the table an account, which
would affurd the Wiest information on that heado.
As to the engagements of this country with foreign
Powers, all the Treaties with other nations were 'ale
ready before Parliament and the Public ; and as to
any other discussions that might hove taken place on
the subject of co-operation, and other matters, the
House must be aware that it might be improper, at
the present moment, to say any thing on that head.
He and his Colleagues were willing to afford every
information in their power which it was consistent
with their duty to give, and enough would be knows
to enable their Lordships to come amply prepared to
the discussion and decision of the subject of the pree
sent Treaty.
Earl GREY was not altogether satisfied with the
extent of information which the Noble Earl opposite
was willing to grant : but he hoped, that if the whole
lof the Treaty of Alliance between Russia and Sweden
could not be produced, the very terms of the article
by which Denmark was to be invited to join the
Northern Alliance would be given. The reasons as.
signed for refusing to produce the correspondence
with the Danish Minister did not appear to hitn sans.
factory. Whether or not the 2d article in this Treaty
could be at all justified, would materially depend in
the conduct of Denmark—of which it would be im-
possible to judge accurately w;thout this corrospon-
dente. The Noble Earl had stated, that he ceeld
not, consistently with a regard to his duty, produce
this correspondence under the present circumstances.
Now, be would make this proposition to the Nubie
Earl, either to give them some information on that
subject, or to postpone the discussicn of the Treaty
till the circumstances which prevented the production
of the correspondence had ceased to exist ; for he re-
peated, that without information on this point, it was
altogether impossible for their Lordships to come
properly prepared to thisf discussion. With respect
to the progress made by 'Sweden in fulfilling the con-
ditions of the Treaty, h. could not conceive what Mi-
,nisters might expect ; hot certainly Sweden had not
taken such decisive steps as he, and he believed the
public i., general, would have expected, from the
terms of this Treaty. He should have expected that
Sweden would have been prepared at the opening of
the campaignoohave actively co-operated in the war
with 30,000 men. But unless he was labouring under
a most extraordinary delusion—ttnless all he had heard
on this subject was incorrect—the French Emperor
had fought two battles; they were said not to be vic.
tories ; but the consequence of these battles was, that
the Allies had retreated to a very considerable dis-
tance. In these operations the Swedish troops had
j taken no part. ' The Crown Prince had, indeed, at
last landed, with but little more than 18,000 men, in-
stead of 30,000 ; and was tortifyisig himself at Stral-
sund, from whence, with such a force, he could not
, advance, without the most imminent risk of destruc-
-1 tion. That a Treaty with Russia was already before
the House, he believed to be the case; but were there,
he would ask, no additional engagements with that
Power, for the purposes of concert mid subsidy ?--,
There was a manifest distinction between plans of the
campaign, of other measures of active co.operation,
which of course ought not to be disclosed, and en.
gagements fur services in consideration of subsidies;
and it was the latter alone which he wished to be
communicated to the Hcuse. He would ever con-
tend, that it was a most unconstitutional proceeding,
though too common of late years, to enter into en-
gagement) by which the country would be. burthem
ed, before Parliament was made acquainted with
their nature and extent, and before it could decide
whether the honour and the interests of the country
were thereby compromised or maintained. Why,
again he would ask, was the ratification of the Swe-
dish Treaty so long delayed ? It was signed on the
3d of March, and the ratification—a mere matter of
form—arrived, it seemed, only on the 1041 of May,
though the two countries were so near oath other.—
Why, again, its communication to the House was
delayed from the 10.11 of May to the 11th of June, it
was impossible to state any good reason. Upon the
whole, therefore, if the Noble Lord persevered in re-
fusing the information- which was now asked, be
should undoubtedly take the sense of the House urea
the subject on *lllursday next, before the discussica
on the Treaty came on.
The Marquis of DOUGLAS also complained of
the inadequate information before the House. 'ire
had a Prussian Minister in this country at present,
and he would ask the Noble Earl, whether Ministers
had entered into engagements of concert and subsiJl
with that Power also ?
LordLIVERPOOL replied, that there was Des
thing about Prussia in the Treaty before the Houser
neither had we any Treaty whatever existing votu
Prussia.
The Marquis of DOUGLAS supposed that there
must at least be a Treaty of Peace with her, if me of
Alliance, as her Minister was now here.
Lord LIVERPOOL.—" This country, in fact,
never was at war with Prussia; and consequeuto
there was no occasion for a Treaty of Peace."
Lord GREY.—." Was theie any treaty of conceit
and subsidy with Russia ? or any treaty of concert
and subsidy with Prussia ?"
Lord LIVERPOOL.—" Neither with die one
Power nor the other."
Here the conversation dropped.
GENERAL INCLOSURE BILL.
Lord SHEFFIELD moved the second readirstl
this Bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, this tees g
Bill to introduce greater changes into all the guank
by which property was protected in this country thJ. e_
any other measure within his recollection, andyci,
not one syllable bad Leen uttered in support of it br
the Noble Mover. He complained, that it went t°
convert the Court of Chancery into a mere works, .p
closure, to the infinite prejudice of the suitors
is,
fur transacting the business of Commissianers
ooftibatio*
Court, which was already overloaded with boons
He should oppose the Bill in every stage.
Bill
was
s Stfoi le',
mons, which would not bear the expence of an ,Pali
nFaFblleEpLproprsreittrstitioatent
cadets to Parliament. There could be no
.obffl‘;4l
enclose ,mail
bjectsinai 1 tfoierst,e..
to the principle; and be was anxious that it ill

go to a Comnsitteel writ isklalitbe altetea arid
proved.
Lord LAUbEkrattittasbted Very much whe-
ther the laW-expences kir the settling the contested
claims of individuals woad not greatly exceed the ex.
pence of an application to Parliament.
Lord ELLENJ3.O-1 PVGH declared this Wise the
most arbitrary Bill he ,had ever seen. It gave the
Commissioners the most unheard of powers, sa chang-
ing the tenures by which individuals held their pro-
perty ; so that,: were this, Bill to pass, a man might
go to sleep a freeholder, and rise next morning a co-
py holder. He Moved that it be read this day three
months.
Lord itEDESDALE said, the Bill consisted of
6o pages, each of which contained several clauses,
and there was not a clause against which he had not
tnany objections. The very first clause was cues-
it.ely objectionable. It gave the power of inclosure
to 3. sths in value of the property, and the other 2-sths
had no other resource but submission, however un-
justly treated. In this way one individual possessed
ut 3.sths of the property might appoint his own
s:eward, commissioner, surveyor, &c. and the rest had
no redress, but in expensive litigation.
After some further observations, the question was
put, and the Bill was thrown out.—Adjourned.