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7:044401- zle..reicolittacleci for War
pith France during:tnit..tterieirdil,
the
ottTer for peace.
when that revolution cease chief gfound of
political difference was reinovich.,idld the union
Ur, Fax and Lordtrenvale waif-retce.
effected. But at, ehes.resent.awfuloYted tekiefinol;
the distresses of which, be thared,"telotild'vsey rapitlly • -le eat's— _ _ present Govern,
• se), is was proposed to Tam
.an. tunion:ln the not cetera the affairs of the State With success ?
cabinet et' periods ip almost • Ifsce then ampliegrisends were affcirded for the pro-
vary point of tingle and domestic policy. Fer-in. position. But be would put it to the candour, to the
sudge, Admiuistraticn (doubtlessly with a conscien- itodgment, and to. the experience of the House, to
tkesfeeling), had determined not only not,le, vlieire say, whether either here or in the other branch of
the catholic: from the civil diSabilities. un- Legislature, there was apparently any difference of
der which they.lahteued, but not even to allow their feeling in the country—any distrust of the Govern-
eue tn lie taken into considetation. On the other hand ment, as to call 'for the interference of Parliament ?
roe who were hawked to join Administration enter- It was for the House to pronounce, whether or not
4„`" Ted .oput•ions diametrically opposite, thinking it the conduct of Ministers was so criminal, so utterly
absolutely necessary to emancipate the Catholics, and destitute in action of fair principle, as to induce the
,declaring that they
should feel it their duty, if in the adoption of a new step completely inimical to the
Cabinets to advise his Royal Highness the Prince. Re- principles of the constitution ? He should, therefore,
ens w take the best and speediest modes of carrying unless it could be fairly shewn to him that such was
that object into effect. So also with respect to the the case, give his decided negative to the motion
disputes between Great Britain and the United States and support the amendment.
ef Amenca. He and the Noble Lords on his side of Lord ERSKINE, in explanation, observed, as to
die House, contended that the Orders in 'Council the charge of a change of sentiments made against
ought to be repealed. Administration, on the con- him by the Noble Earl, that lie saw no reason to
tiny, refused even to bring this important subject disclaim any change of opinion, especially .if the
ruder the consideration of either House of Parlia- change were from one that was erroneous. But he
one Notwithstanding the starving state of the ma- was somewhat surprised at the 'charge being made,
infacturers, and the distresses of every description of , when it .must have been in the recollection of the
people in the country, so detei mined were Ministers Noble Earl, that soon after the removal from office
to keep up their system, that they would not allow of the Government of which he had been a Member,
the question tq be agitated ; they would not even he had avowed the same sentiments lie had expressed
agree to the appointment of a Committee to inquire that night, on a motion brought forward by a Noble
into it. Under these circumstances of direct diffe- Earl near him.—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)—
fence of opinion on questions of such vital impor- With respect to the Catholic question, the Noble
mice, he appealed to the House and to the country, Earl must well have known, that there was, when he
whether his Noble Friends could have acted other- was in office, an obstacle to its attainment which did
wise than they had done ? The Noble Lord entered not now exist. The Noble Viscount on the cross
into a long argument in favour of relieving the Irish bench (Lord Sidmouth) knew that he approved of
Catholics from their disabilities, and said that a fish the proposition brought forward towards the close of
might as well be asked to come out of the Channel the Administration of which he had been a member;
and to live on dry land, as he not to maintain that though he was of opinion that they ought not to at-
all the subjects of the State ought to be placed on tempt to advance farther, because such an attempt
the same tooting, arid ought to enjoy equally civil would lead to the dissolution of the Administration.
rights. Unless any set of men had done something (4 laugh.)—The inclination fel, by Noble Lords to
to justify withholding from them equal privileges, it laugh at any expression of the painful feelings in
was tyranny to do so. The worst feature of Popery going out of office, sheaved clearly how necessary it
itself was intolerance, and he hoped that worst of was for Noble Lords to think maturely before they
featuns would not be imitated by Protestantism.— accepted office. His Noble Friends, in his opinion,
Adierting to America, he contended that we ought had gone a little too far in that instance, and the con-
to contemplate not so much the present as the pro. sequence was, their Administration was dissolved.
table future state of that country, and to reflect that The LORD CHANCELLOR conceived that if
twenty years her population and her strength the Noble and Learned Lord thought that it was for
tun render her either 4 powerful friend or a forms- the general benefit of the subject that he should take
4able foe. On the grounds which he had stated, he place, he was right ; but if he thought that to advo-
imurned his sincere thanks to his N'oble Friends for cote the cause of the Catholics as a means of attain-
*/ manliness and sincerity of their conduct. As ins office was right, then he was wrong. If he could
there was no good unmixed with evil, so there was bring himself to be of the latter opinion he should
in evil unmixed with good; and although by the late vote for the motion, but he must be convinced that
occurrences the hopes and expectitions of the coon- from the revolution downwards the country had acted
ity had been disappointed, yet the public had been on erroneous principles. Every man who entertained
m some measure reconciled by them to public men, principles similar to those of the founder of the Re-
and had-felt that they had been abused, when they volution, who held office upon opinions incompatible
were told that all public men were influenced by cor- with -those principles, deserved public detestation.—
topt motives. He trusted that some explanado • His Noble Friend, in his introductory observations
stuld be given in the course of the evening, of the on his motion, had taken great pains to convince the
causes that had deprived the country, at such a criti- House that be bad brought it forward- with the best
sal period, of the services of the Noble Marquis, for of motives. No one could doubt the assertion. The
*horn he entertained' a high personal respect, and Address then began with the most complimentary
whose eminent talents were generally acknowledged, language to the Prince Regent, noticed the freedom
both at borne and abroad. from restrictions, and the subsequent expectations en-
Lord HARROWBY declared, that if in the tertained in consequence, and then went on to quer-
toerse of the ohielvations which he felt it his duty to ref with the only act which his Royal. Highness had
make, he should say any thing at all injurious to the done since the restriction, and recommended the ne-
feelings of his Noble Friend who was the mover of cessity of forming an administration calculated to
the original proposition, that expression would be ten conciliate the affections of the greatest part of the
times more offensive to him than it could possibly be subjects of these realms. The Noble Lord then went
to his Noble Friend. He had paused for a moment on to argue that the present Administration did not
at the conclusion of the speech of the Noble and possess the affections of the people, and then, though
Learned Lord who had just sat down, in :he expec- he does not recommend, wishes a broad-bottomed
cation that his Noble Friend would have thought it Administration, which of all others, under circum-
'proper to withdraw his motion. For what were the stances, was the most mischievous thing that could
House called upon to do ? They were called to ad- happen. (Hear, hear.) Noble Lords seemed to be
chess the Prince Regent, and to express their hopes pleased ; he was happy to give satisfaction, especially
that his Royal Highness might be able to form an when Noble Lords were so prone to be out of humour
united Administration. After the speech of the with him for no cause. The Noble Lord had stated
Noble and Learned Lord, did the House really 'en- that those persons who had refused to take the Pe-
.
tertain any such hopes ? If not, would it hot be in- titions of the Roman Catholics into consideration
tatting the Regent to tell him that the house of were obnoxious. Were an administration not likely
Lords hoped he would be enabled to do that which to conciliate the affections of the people ? If so, he
the Noble and Learned Lord had just informed the trusted, the Noble Lord would, after he had turned
House could not be done without a dishonourable
.that Administration out, shew to the House where
'abandonment of principle ? and on what grounds did an Administration was to be found which should
e.proposition for taking this extraordinary, and it conciliate the affections of the people. For his own
Mould seem hopeless step rest ? In the first place, on part, he did most solemnly believe, that the people
iiOme expressions supposed to have been dropped in were so exceedingly weak and foolish, as to give the
Otother place, respecting Maynooth College. Was present Ministers much more of their affectionate
it a new thing in that House, or elsewhere, to hear regards than many Noble Lords would consent to
*edam to the grant for that college ? Was it a admit. Would it be denied that the Prince Regent
*ground on which such a motion as that proposed
Wald rest ? The has the right of choosing his Ministers, subject,
next alledged reason for his Noble i undoubtedly, to those proper checks which the Con-
Friend's motion was, that a certain individual in ano- -stitutiOn provides? After those servants have been
*hest.
place having given notice of a motion connected chosen, then they
truth the Petition ofthe become the responsible advisers,
Irish Catholics, another indi- ' and not before, of the Sovereign. His Noble and
!ideal of his Majesty's Government had moved for a Learned Friend would therefore forgive him if he
all of the House on that occasion. Now really, on said, that in a strict Parliamentary sense, the debate
a question of Such extreme magnitude and import- on one.of the letters alluded to was disorderly, be-
!ace, it appeared to him, that any one might with cause one of the standing orders of the House was,
lth a full attendance, without the imputation of such that his Majesty's name should not be mentioned in
*Knives as might justify
thepresent motion. Ana debate. It could nut be used for Parliamentary in-
iher ground alledged by his Noble Friend was, that fluence, as was shewn by the Noble Lord's harangue,
mine Protestant Preacher, (whom he knew not, for for half an hour, on the proceedings of the 13to of
he. had never heard of the circumstance until that February. The case must be a strong one indeed;
evening) had been declaiming violently againit the which could induce Parliament to interfere with the
Catholics. This had been a very common usage Crown, in the nomination of its Ministers ; such a
ever since the Reformation. Had it increased so I proceeding would have the effect of destroying that
C
onsiderably within the last six weeks as to afford a responsibility in the Minister, which Noble Lords
pound for his Noble Friend's motion ? But then, I seemed so desirous to establish. It would be too
ut .edition to this, the extreordinary state of the press ! much to say, when his Royal Highness had in the
hid been adduced
that
ain support of the motion. Was I first act of his authority appointed his Mlnistcrs, that
new thing within the last six weeks? Certainly I Parliament should go to him and say, e Your
presslll:___ teemed with strong attacks; but whence did Royal Highness has appointed an Administration
proci:tudnr ? From what portion of the press did they which does not possess the confidence of the country,
Was it because a part of the press wits ;, nor the affections of the people, and therefore you
1414ch'us enough to bid defiance to all decency, that must get rid of those Ministers." The Noble Lord
pthriene 11,°r1 must agree to the motion of his Noble ! had stated, that Parliament had refused to take into
Adverting to the Noble and Learned Lord's consideration the Petitions of the subject. When, he
tesargturatheenut in favour of the Catholics, he observed, would ask, did such a Resolutioitpass? The Petitions
that e..oble and Learned Lord was a convert on of the Catholics were not conformable with the
subject;estab-
(hat fur when in the Cabinet, he believed lished principles of the Revolution in 1688. At that
birnserf Noble and Learned Lord had not shewn Revolution, religious freedom and religious tolera-
Noble afriend to Catholic emancipation. But the lion, consistent with national religion, were permitted
prano and Learned Load did not now hesitate fp .to their fullest extent. To say,. therefore,. that that
_
unce it tyranny, if Government expressed any sort of religions tpleration, which was incompatible
'altitude out the
• t t figademestal principles of aociety with the VitaigiskOPligkou sii tie §4p, rksto lie

,
adlositte4 VMS a* argument which could not be en-
dured. It must not be forgotten, that at the Rev°,
I utidn the Crdvni was placed on the head of a Pro-
testant for ever. - The question of emancipation had
never been thought of by Mr. Pitt, and it was But In
speechesin Parliament, and from puhlicationselsewhere
that it had been commented upon. Securities had been
talked of. Would the Must tell him what these pro-
posed securites were ? The sentiments and opinion*
of Mr. Pitt he would wish engraved ott his tomb. All ,
that he required was a testimonial of his charaCter, to •,
have thus written—g 4 The friend of Mr. Pitt." With

• -
respect to the sentiments of that ilhistrious man, all
he could say was, that he died without being able to
tell Met what those securities meant. If such was

the opinion of Mr. Pitt, could he-be blamed for not
agreeing to the prop&ition ?—There Was no man
more disposed than himself to concede when it could
be shewn that such concession was for the general in.
terests of the state. With respect to the state of the
relations with America, and the system pursued to•
wards that country, that system was not really
adopted—it had been carries on by the Government
immediately preceding the one now administering the
affairs of the state. He must therefore object to the
argument which held forth the country as being too
tenacious of her rights.. On the contrary, she had
invariably preserved those rights, with a proper degree
of feeling and respect to that nation, with whom it
was necessary to be on amicable terms. The Noble
and Learned Lord declared, that unless the Noble

Lord could chew him some cause for the dismissal of
the present Ministers, he was convinced that be was
interfering in a way perfectly unconstitutional, and
consequently he could not agree with the motion.
Earl GREY was. not prepared to make a profes-
sion of political faith, however the Noble Lord might
call upon him so to do. He would advert as well as
he was able to all the topics which had been urged,
and afford as well as he could an adequate explana-
tion. Sentiinents had been imputed to him directly
contrary to those principles which he had ever pro-
fessed, and that misrepresentation of which be com-
plairied might be repeated in afew days, nay, within
a few hours. He was anxious to state his opinions
upon the question, not wishing to deny to the Nobh
and Learned Lord, that the motion was substan-

aceesc6i of stiingd6 which peril that &oat'
would benefit the Sala But what benefit coo

arise from the conjunction of men who were thi
determihed enemies of religious liberty! who Profits.
ed to att upon principles a exclusion's° Catholics/
—There were two Noble Lords whom he saw whe

were reported as likely to give strength to this *oak
Administration. He did not know whether the de-
voted victims to place had received from the Prime
Minister any communication of their ir:tended dis-
grace ; but these two Noble Lords had professedly
avowed determined principles of exclusion. One of
the Noble Lords had revivtd the Comn ition Oath as

being an insuperable bar to the claims of the Catt,o:ics
being allowed. In shnrt. at all points they had bent
armed with the cry of “No Popery." Was this as
Administration competent to all the putposes and ob-
jects for which Administration was firmed Was It
not an Administration rather obnoxious c,) the preplet
Would such an Administration cotteiliate the affec,
tions of the people i The necessity of conciliation
was apparent. Much had been said of the principles
of the Revolution : he was, however, prepared to deny
that the principles of the Revolution weft such at
now stated. The disabilities then Imposed were dif-
ferent from those at present insisted Urn ; those dila
abilities were connected With certain politttal inca-
pacities, which prevented them Iron receiving sr/tat
they demanded. When the necessity for imposing
these restraints ceased, then to continue them be-
came tyranny of the very worst description. The
question to examine was, whether any danger wail to
be apprehended to the State from the asttstmace eE
these disabilities, or rather from the seratival of thessi
_ _

So far from wishing to restrain the Catholics item dal
exercise of their rights (as he would contend) in coma
mon with their fellow subjects, he was for extending
to all classes of the subjects of theserealma, that eman.
cipation from restriction which they were entitled •
to. What danger was to be apprehended from such
concession ? He had the right to ask the Noble and
Learned Lord to shew where the danger existed,
before he was called upon to produce security
against the existence of danger in the event of the
removal of those restrictions. The danger existed
in the continuation of these restrictions, which would
deprive the Empire of the assistance of nearly
four millions of her population. which, if unre•
strained, would contribute materially to the strength
and advantage of the State. The Noble and
Learned Lord had said that Mr. Pitt, though he
proposed the measure of concession, was not ena.
bled to tell him what the securities for the due
performance of the agreement were. The fact was,
that the expectation was held out to the Catho-
lics, and therefore when the Noble Lord talked of
not being able to ascertain what these securities
were, he shewed that the conduct of Mr. Pitt was
a mere pretence—a delusion held out to deceive Par-
liatnent. (Hear, hear.): When the Catholics had
experienced from time time to time various cones.
sions, had they not the right to expect, in confor-
mity with the promise held out to them, that further
concession would be made ? Had they not the right
to hope that they should ultimately obtain the fait
object of their ambition ? Such had been the opinion
of some of the most enlightened Statesmen. Mr. Fox,
Mr. Burke, and some othets had been of that opinion.
In 1793, and in 1793; these hopes had been held oth,
though in the following years these hopes had been
damped by the scenes of blond and torture which yea
curred, and which had not been exceeded by the hoe•
roil of the French revolution—scenes which made
every English heart bleed. The Union had been oba
mined upon terms, which not being fulfilled, had opts
rated to the disgrace of the country; that measure had
been carried into effect by the Catholics, upun a direct
understanding, that in the United Parliament their
claims should be attended to. If the House could '
put themselves in the situation of the Catholicso
with their expectations blasted, what would be their
feelings upon the occasion ? Was it matter of
much surprise, that discontent should arise ? Was
it matter of astonishment, that finding themselves
duped, they exhibited chagrin ? The expectation still
remained, and it was for the responsible advisers of
the Prince Regent to answer, for he could not believe
that his Royal Highneis would induce hopes-whieh
could never be realized. It could never be expot
ted that the " new era" would be an era of bigotry
and superstition. The proposition of the Noble Mover
was to form an Administration that should conciliate, 4
the affections of the people. He doubted much edge;
ther the People of England were against Catholic
Emancipation. He believed that if a new set of mak
were called into power, the measure would be carried
with little difficulty. With respect to the letter sign+
ed by his Noble Friend and himself, they therein see.
ted that they would not accept of office upon any
other terms than those which recommended the ado".
tion of those measures of conciliation to the Catbo.
lies, so necessary in his opinion to the safety of the
State. The very terms of it cut off the probability
of junction with the present administration. It seas,
written not in the temper of exclusion, for however
warm he might be in political conflicts, no man could
accuse him of being subject to political resentnnitt.
When differences upon great political matters shodld
cease, he would not be averse to unite, if such units,
could be advantageous to the State. But he would
ask Noble Lords opposite, did they really ester
with the views which he and his friends entertaind4,.
that they could cordially join the present Admisia
oration, for he must take it for granted, thee
being the constitutional advisers of his Royal High.
ness, they advised the letter which had beers sent
to his Noble Friend and himself ? He would
ask them, with feelings such as he and his No-
ble Friend possessed, would they have accepted
offices upon those terms ? Would they consent to
defeat all those expectations which the ehtlmiks
knew they were- pledged to. The Noble Lord then
proceeded to discuss the topics contamedin the Ad.
dress, and with respect to America, he denied, if it
was imputed to him, that he would lay at the feet of
America, all the Flory of the nation, by giving up her
national rights. He felt most imperiously the amis.
sty of preserving them. As to the circulation of the
country, he was disposed to adhere to the opinion
which he had always entertained, that it was neves.'
nary to revert to those tree principles which in a ft*.
State were the essential requisites, and without which
the trade of the country eould not be placed upon its
true basis. He vrobld not therefore-rennin a Member
of that Government which declared that it was et.
-..ev to- make • Book Notes a le4 twist. <3n

tially—a motion for the change of the Administra-
tion--(llear, hear.)—}ie was convinced the Noble
Lord could not have intended it for any other pur.
pose, nor could he understand it in any other light.-
The intention of the Noble Lord. therefore, was to
procure the dismissal of Ministers as not being the
Ministers of the country, and wishing by the address
to procure an union of the abilities of the country,
competent to direct the powers of the Empire, and
the resources with benefit to the State. With this
view he was not disposed to deny to the Noble and
Learned Lord that the measure was a strong one.
With sufficient grounds stated to Parliament, he con-
ceived that the Sovereign would listen to the sugges-
tions of Parliament. It certainly was not a part of
the proceedings of this House to nominate to the
Crown the persons competent to form an Admini-
stration ; he had, however, till this night, thought
that on the statement of sufficient grounds for re-
moval, an application from Parliament to remove
'Ministers was always attended to, and the more so at
this important and momentous crisis of great diffi-
culty and danger. The motion of the Noble Lord
was legitimate and lawful—that could not be denied;
the question therefore would be, whether, in the Ad-
dress, the present Ministers had been truly described
AS incapable of wielding the strength and resources
of the Empire, so necessary to its existence ? The
questions to be considered were, in the first place,
whether the motion of Address truly described the
Administration as in character and principles inimi-
cal to the public interest? and, secondly, whether
those principles, and that character thus recognised,
I could be maintained with security and safety to the
i 1 Empire, and without endangering the establishment
in Church and State ? Novr, of what materials were
they composed ? They were in fact an Administra-
tion upon resistance to Catholic Claims. What had
been the general conduct of the head of that Admi-
nistration since his elevation to power ? Why, an
unqualified and eternal resistance to Catholic Eman-
cipation, as tending to the absolute destruction of all
security in Church and State ; that opposition, the
Head of the Administration was ready to main-
tain, and to support the principle of eternal ex-
clusion to all classes of his fellow subjects.—
Wherever the head went the resk must follow.
The Noble Secretary had said often, that Parliament
had gone to the limit of concession. The Noble and
Learned Lord had said that the fundamental princi-
ples of the Constitution would forbid the granting of
the claims. Would he state that he differed from the
head of the Administration in respect to opinions upon
the subject ? Would-the Secretary of State in another
place, who had regretted on a certain occasion that
a grant of the nature then under discussion, had ever
existed, would he differ from the - principles avowed
by the leader ? Would the new addition to this
strength in the executive Government (Lord Castle.
reagh) would he, for he was an eminent person in po.
litics, would he dissent from his colleagues? With
such an Administration formed on principles to resist
Catholic claims? Such an Administration as should
meet with the confidence and affection of the coun-
try ? It had been said by a Noble Lord, that he had
never heard of the denunciations (alluded to by his
Noble Friend) against the Catholics. These denun-
ciations
had been frequent and loud for the last chile
1 weeks. They had proceeded from the pulpit in sera 1
mons, which on certain oceasions had produced to the
preacher much benefit. One of these Rev. preichers
had been lately gazetted as one of the Prince Regent's
Private Chaplains--(Hear,hear. )—These were strong
and undeniable proofs of the intolerance of the pre-
sent Administration—of the predilection for exclu-
sion, contrary to the genuine principles of the Brit*
Constitution. The Noble and Learned Lord had
said there was nothing so mischievous as what woe
generally vulgarly termed a. broad-bottomed Admi.
nistration ; there certainly wa-s nothing so mischie.
vous, when forming an Administration upon a libetal
basis, as to compose it of persons possessing discos.
dant principles, which could not in any wise contd.
bnte to the safety or security. of the Empire. He
therefore was disposed to give credit to the Noble and
i Learned Lord for not wishing to extend the Admi-
nistration upon a basis which should provide for the
i security of the Empire. if reports were to be ere.
i •
4464 the peat Admistietration Were to receive an
..... :

•

• • • . l4. Altarturnaht faiudiciods
A.4.ltmou,
MOM. " tit, the necessity of Porliameataty
tlag4?n, the House mint ts.l4*-
e t at I e • • uustration had loii the con once
of the Country-.. Wits she, Houte so persuaded from
the statementsmade birthe Noble Mover ? Was the
Rouse 'satjsgeil 'that the present Governntent could

the subject of the war in the Peninsula, he would not 1
acme away from it in a diShonourable manner. On
the principle of doing harm to the enemy, at the
least possible expence to the country, he should be
inclined to carry it on, .guided by those principles of
economy so necessary to be preserved in the present
means of this country. He was inclined to look with
jealousy at the operations on the Continent, and dis-
posed to pursue the war, if a certainty of support
and• probability of success was apparent. At the same
time, he was ready to pay his tribute of applause to
the conduct of the brave nation, who had struggled
long against-the tyranny of France. Nothing could
give him greater satisfaction than the separation of
Spain from France. As principals in the war, unless
supported by the Spanish Government, he had no
Hopes of ultimate success, notwithstanding he might
estimate hig.i the opinion of the gallant Commander
in Chief in the Peninsula. The amendment proposed
spoke of the successes of our armies, and the Noble
Lord .who brought it forward, had expatiated on
the advantages which had been gained over the
enemy in the Peninsula. This led him to take a
view of what had taken place there, and of the many
disasters which were to be placed in opposition to
those successes. Of what had we to boast, when
against what we had gained, the advantages obtained
by the enemy over our Allies, were stated ? After
the fall of Tarragona, and of Valencia, and after the
capture of General Blake, and nearly the whole of
his army, what grounds for exultation could be found
in the situation in which things stood there ? There
was nothing that could reconcile him to the present
system. Lord Wellington there had been at the head
of not fewer than 62,000 of the best troops that any
nation could command ; at the head of an army con-
siderably greater than that which was under the corn.
vnand of the Duke of Marlborough, when he carried
the glory of this country to the highest pitch it could
attain yet with such an army, what had Lord Wel.
lington accomplished ? He had been obliged only
to act on the defensives and when this was stated,
what more could be wanted to shew the folly of the
present system ? What more to shew that we could
not effectually retard the operations of the French ?
Under these circumstances, to combine with men in
resisting the just claims of the Catholics, with a view
to benefit the Empire at large, was impossible. The
necessity of granting them relief he again enforced
in strong terms, and concluded protesting against
that secret Court influence which was felt, and felt
by him to be incompatible to the welfare of the coun-
try, and defending those principles which had been
avowed in the letter which had been sent to tho Prince
by himself and his Noble Friend.
Lord MULGRAVE admitted that the Noble Earl
bad a right to call for the removal of Ministers, but
not to expect the House to agree to such a motion,
withoirt bringing forward strong grounds to justify
such a call. He denied that such had been shewn to
exist, and proceeded to shew how little could be hoped
from the proposed Address. He noticed what had
fallen from the last Speaker wi!li respect to the war
in the Peninsula, and asked, if taking such a view
of the subject as he might take, and withdrawing
our aid from our Allies altogether, would be likely
to be satisfactory to the country ? The Noble Lord
bad said he was not for doing any thing rash ; but
if, with the view he took of the Bullion question, a
material change were made in the present system,
was it certain that such a line of policy would be
satisfactory to the country ? If, to avoid doing any
thing rash, the N(,ble Lord was not disposed to make
changes like those he anticipated, to what purpose
should they address the Prince, if they called upon
him to change his Administration, but to continue the
same measures. The acts of the present Administra-
tion bad received the support of Parliament, and were
. therefore entitled to the confidence of the country.—
The Noble Lord then took a view of what had been
advanced on the subject of the Catholic claims.—
Since the concessions made to the Catholics in 1793,
it was stated that they had increased in wealth and
importance It was the wish of those who made the
concessions alluded to, that such should be their ef-
fect. With these concessions the Catholics had pro.
=nixed to be content, but had since come forward, and
in a tone of the most haughty overbearing insolence,
claimed the command of our army and navy, as their
right, and also their ability to sit on the Bench in our
Courts of Law. ft was said that the Catholics were
four millions in number ; and it was further said, that
they were greatly irritated. They were greatly irri-
tated, and therefore they ought not to be trusted too
much. It was now said, give them the command of
the army and navyr and they will be satisfied. But
was it certain they would be so ? They had promised
• to lie content with the concessions made to them in
1793, but they bad forgotten, or at least they had not
observed their promise. He could never be persuaded
that an illustrious Friend of his, now no more, had
intended proposing to concede them what they re-
quired, without having some guards in his mind
against the probable effects of their claims being gran.
ted. He proceeded at considerable length to speak
on the subject of those claims, and on the improper
manner in which they bad been urged, and at the
same timest rongly deprecated the practice of bringing
them into every discussion, to keep up that fer-
ment in one part of the empire which had already
been excited. Their Lordships, be was confident,
could not agree to the Address, as to carry up such
* one under existing circumstances would be insulting
to the Prince. Satisfied as he was with the support
of Parliament on former occasions, and with the ap-
probation, he would have been content with putting
a single negative to the question, if the amendment
bad not been moved by his Noble Friend.
Earl Mot RA said, that even though he had come
into the House under some doubt, whether he should
vote for the present Address, the speech of the Noble
Lord who hadjust spoken would have been alone suf-
ficient to convince him of the necessity of it. That
Noble Lord, not satisfied with stating the necessity
of excluding the Catholics from those places of trust
and emolument too hich they aspired, and to which
every generous mind must feel a desire of reaching,
pot content with thus declaring that they could not
with safety be trusted, also brought forward an occu-
ltation against them, as accusation that was untrue,
in fact, as it was injurious and insulting in its ten-
dency. It was not true that the Roman Catholics of
Irelaod demand:4 concession in the tone of menace.
Theirconducs did not warrant a charge of such a na-
, tort. high legal character la that HQUfd was blown

to hare aeclared his npiniori that the manner in which
they had proceeded was not contrary to law ; it was
too much then to say, at a time when the case may be
considered as yet pending, that their conduct was in
opposition to the laws of thc land. This charge was the
only thing he could pick out from the loose outline of
the Noble Lord's speech, and this charge, he was con-
vinced, had little foundation. The Noble Lord had
said, that the present circumstances of the country
did not warrant the present Motion ;—but he would
ask, what circumstances could possibly be more
alarming than those under which the country was
placed at present ? Could they shut their eyes to
that which must ultimately force itself upon observa-
tion ? Were not the facts prominent enough to con-
vince them that the state of Ireland was such at pre-
sent as must inevitably lead to the most disastrous
consequences, unless means were speedily adopted to
conciliate the people of that country ? Was not the
salvation of public affairs in that country and in this
such as to demand an extraordinary remedy ? Ab-
stracting from every ether consideration, there was
at this moment a dearth of provisions in Ireland,
which alone would be sufficient to excite alarm ;
and that at such a time, and under such circum-
stances a spirit of exclusion should be openly pro-
fessed by the Government, was a thing which in-
deed raised in him the most ominous apprehensions
for the consequences that may follow. He would
call upon Noble Lords, he would call upon the coun-
try to court at present, to court at all times the cor-
dial co-operation of Ireland. He would intreat them
to consider, that Ireland was loaded with a popula-
tion which, like the population of this country, could
not find employment in manufactures ; and how di-
sastrous
must be the policy of chilling their disposi-
tion to enter into the service of the army or navy.—
From
his soul he believed, as if he were speaking in
the face of the ALMIGHTY, that the safety of the I
Empire depended upon the conciliation of the Catho-
lics. It was by such conciliation—it was by combin-
ing the heart of Ireland with that of England, that
they could alone summon up the great resources of
the Empire, and defy the enemy that was working
for its ruin. After the language he had heard that
night, he was convinced that such conciliation could
never be effected without a change of Ministry ; and
if he had entertained any doubts before as to the pro-
priety of this Address, the language of the Noble
Lord who had last spoken would have effectually re-
moved them.

The question being loudly called for, the House
divided upon the Amendment.
For the Amendment, Ayes
Proxies _ 75-16S

---
Against the Amendment, Noes
Proxies 29— 72
Majority against Lord Borringdon's Address —92
Their Lordships then adjourned at one o'clock.