Star.
London, England, 1823-06-10 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. '

HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE 9.
This morning their Lordships met at twelve o'clock, when
the LORD CHANcer.ton moved to affirm the judgment of the
Court of Session in the appeals of " Hunter v. Hunter and
others," and " Ferriei v. Mudie ;" and the judgment of the. Eng-
lish Court of Exchequer in the appeal of " Noel v. Noel," was
reversed by the House.

111 r. Curwood was heard at the bar in support of a writ .of
error obtained by the defendants in the case ".The King against
Rosier and • Humphries," for keeping a common gaming-house:—
Mr. F. Pollock was heard in support of the prosecution ; and
their Lordships affirmed the sentence given in the Court of
King's Bench, vie. Itogier to one year's imprisonment in Cold-
bath-fields, to pay a fine of £5OOO, and give security far his fu-
ture good behaviour for five years, himself in a bond of £2OOO,
'and two sureties in £lOOO each. Humphries, to two years' im-
prisonment, to pay a fine of £5OO. and to give similar security
for the same period.
Adjourned at nearly two o'clock, during pleasure.
The Liverpool Church F.reetion Bill was, upon their Lord-
ships' resuming, read a third time, passed, and messaged to the
other House ;as was likewise the Imperial Gas Lighting Bill. -
Uptin the motion of the )Joan CHANCELLOR it was directed
that the name of the Duke of Athol should be added to the Com-
mittee now sitting on Appeals ; and it was agreed, on the motion
of the same Noble and Learned Lord, that the forther consi-
deration of the Report on the Marriage Law Aniendment Bill,
which stood for this day, should be postponed till to-morrow.
The Masters and Servants' Bill was reported as amended, and
the amendments were agreed to.
Atter a very few words from Viscount Ber.HAVEN, the Scottish
Entails Bill, upon the motion of the Earl of ABERDEEN, went
through a Committee of the whole House, and was reported
with some amendments.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN presented a Petition from the
Inhabitants of the Borough town of Knaresborough, in the
County of York, praying their Lordships to adopt prompt and
effectual measures for ameliorating and improving'the condition
of the Negro Population in our Colonies, and also for the abo-
lition of the Slave Trade.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN now moved the Order of the
Day, upon which their Lordships had been summoned, for the
second reading of the Grand Jury (Ireland) Presentments Bill.
He added, that be should abstain from offering any remarks in
the present stage of the Bid, as it unfortunately so happened that
his Noble Friend (Donoughmore), who objected to some of its
provisions, felt himself too unwell to attend the service of the
House. But, under these circumstances, he saw no impropriety
in moving the second reading of the Bill now, and its committal
to stand for Thursday next.—These motions were agreed to.
The same Noble Marquis next moved the second reading of
the Joint Tenancy (Ireland) Bill. It might be recollected, his
Lordship said, that, in stating last Session the long catalogue of
calamities and evils with which chat part of the United Kingdom
bad been too long aggrieved and afflicted, he had not omitted to
specify, as foremost, the. evils which accrued to that country
from the known fac►lities of obtaining votes in elections by
granting leases to a number of tenants in common. It was the
great object of this Bill in sonic degree to correct that evil, the'
prolific source of other ills; but he feared that Its provisions did
not go far enough, though he approved of the principle of the
Bill. He wished to obsetve that the present Bill presumed not
to interfere with leases now in existence, and considered to be
valid ; its object was prospective, nut retrospective; and, there-
fore, it provided that in future, no leases of joint tenancy bhould
be 'granted where the property so leased did not amount to £2O
la-year. With these cursory explanations, he supposed there would
be no objection to letting the Bill be now read a second time.
The Earl of LIMERICK rose only to express his entire ap-
probation of the principle of the Bill, and his thanks to those
Hon. Persons who had framed and forwarded it. lie hoped,
most sincerelymhat this principle would be carried much farther,
as it tended to counteract one of the greatest evils now existing
in the Sister Kingdom.—The,aforesaid Bill was immediately
read a second time, and then ordered to be committed for Thurs-
day next.—Adjournede '
• ' HOUSE OF COMMONS.

• TisecCHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
°Net of the Day for the House going into a COmmittee °ache
Scotch and Irish Distilleries. The Hon. Member •moved a
series of Resolutions, which were agreed to, and added, that the
debate upon them, if any were necessary, should be reserved for
the second. reading. .
Mr. HU aitE moved for Returns relative to the Qvil. Esta-
blishment in. the Isle of Man ; and also of all persons engaged in
the Cuitnins.there,and by whom appointed. Similar Returns were
moved for as to appOintments in the Navy, which were ordered.
The Hon. Member then presented a fetid= from the Burgh
Ai Montrose,- praying for the repeal of all dirties od ,Beer and
Wort, and in lieu thereof to lay the duty upon Malt.—Ordered
to be printed.
' • The Recognizance Bill was read a third time and passed. •
Mr. F. BUXTON presented a Petition from Persons con-
cerned in the Manufacture of Silk, praying that the gill in pro-
gress for its regulation might pot pass into a law.. , • . , . •
SPITALFIELDS SILK BILL.
Mr. HUSKISSON moved the Order:of the Day
for receiving the Report of the SpitaWelds Silk Ma-
nufacturers Bill. •
Mr. SPEAKER asked if. Cnenset were, in attend.
ance? and he was answered Ia theaf6imatiye. . •
Mr. ADAMS and Mr. Wttne then appeared at the
bar, and being asked for Whom they attended, replitd,
in behalf of the Journeymen Silk Manufacturers of
spitalfields, against a Bill now in progress for there-
iaal of the tikpitalfields Act.._, kir. ADAZIS addresied
the House. in favour of the Perititmers. Mr•Wtant.
followed on the same side: The gotinsel being per-
mitted to Withdraw.- .
Mr. HUSKISSON moved that theeamendments
should be then reada secondtine. •
Mr. BUXTON said, that after the able arguments
of the Learned coursel, he should not attempt to
argue the, question oil the ground of 'political eco-
nomy, he did.not, protess to be a political etonc-

. , . . • -.
n'ist, burhe was; in.comison with mairY,:•tolicitotte
' that the Petitionen should Se permittelf to trisave the
allegations how Made by Cotmsethf eVideneessit-thelr
bar. The 'Petiiinrieri, without at ah''attestipt4g.tO
d'etate limits to the pr etties& of improvement; or the
powela of the House, still submitted that We 'stience
of sUalitic.al Economy was °fa from being, of :triune
growth.; that its axioms and Principte4 were VAC;IOO9,
undetermined, and not .generally, sanetkiheinszet.
by public adoption. For firty years ilie'Prititiple of
political economy an which Ole SilitalSeld,s'Aitihkd
been framed, • was 'Octet,' npori th'&rekiijury to the
public or inconvenience to. the.'-aitTsinks-ooneefued.
'fhe.systern.of .ftirmer ilikys,had -been oierturned by
Adam Sinith, 'and Many Of drat Ole • Is'Ogtitclitt eeo-
nomnt's doctrines had.' been in later days soceeitfully
attacked,ll not defkateljl itr that Haase, -Iq.-the Ron.
Member for Portaftagtoloin a mannerlitieKybilst
it convinced 'all.. shelved tlie• lirofotinel6oktoiedge.
which. Wit ingenious Gentleenaii' had Of the bWject.
Then how could the }blase' be assured that the- pre-,
sent improvements, as they had beetitermed by'some
persons, in this science-, might not be all-overturned
by some other ingenious professor Of this abstruse
science, as those of 1780 had been by later improve-
ments? All that the friends of the Petitioners con-
tended for was, that they bad never yet been heard
on the subject of this very important, alteration in
the law whichregulated these branches of manofac.:
cure. It was said in reply to this objection, that a
Committee had been employed in inquiring into the
state of the silk trade of Coventry, if not on that at
Spitalfields.—Even supposing that the advice giVen
on that Committee bore on the case of the Petitioners,
he must say, the Petitioners were proved by it to be
in a better condition than other persons employed in
the trade ; the answer to the first question respecting
this amount of the poors'-rate, went directly to prove
it. The Treasurer to We Coitentry Silk Company
stated, that the .poors'-rate amounted to 19s. in the
pound, whereas the Spitalfields Treasurer stated, thrir
poors'-rate did not exceed 6s. in the pound. Tile
next answer as to wages proved the same thing ; the
operative workmen, it was proved, in Coventry only
, received from 6s. to 10s. a week ; whilst those in
Spitalfields received from lOs to 153. a week. The
remainder of the sum neces.ary to suppoi t them-
selves or their families, the workmen at Coventry re-
ceived from the poors'-r ate, which residue was about
equal to the sum paid by marer weavers—(Hear).—
The lowness of the pt ice of labcur at Coventry too
begat that most baneful system of taking half-pay
apprentices, by which, as most of the youngefemales
employed were taken as half-pay apprentices, they
were exposed to every temptation of vice and pro-
fligacy. It did appear, moreover, that the • work-
men at Spitalfields were rem as kable for their moral
and indilsoious habits. The Report of the Com-
mittee in 1818 stated, that the evils which existed at
Coventry were not felt at the manufactories at Spi-
talfields, London, and Westminster; and recom-
mended the Legislature to adopt a remedy for those
evils by an extension of the regulations of the. Spital-
fields Acts—(Hear, hear).—ille claims of the Peti-
tioners to be heard now rested, first, on their never
having yet been heard in proof of their allegations at
the Bar of the House—secondly, on the superiority
of their condition as operative, independent men,
having greater wages under' this system, and being •
respectively better off than other classes, and their
superiority in point of morality and cemparatiie ex.
emption from vice. Whilst these facts were before
the House be thought 'their claims too strong to be
-resisted ;' but when they reflected on, the Roman
maxim of law, -that the Judge who hears but one
side, though he. may decide rightly, yet decides im-
properly, he thought it yrould be impossible they
should proceed further- without allowing them to
make out their case by evidence at the bar. He Con-
c/laded by Moving, that a Spetial Committee be ap-
pointed to exhmine into the existing Acts, called the
Spitalfields Acts, and the condition of that class- of
Manufacturers, and to repOrt thereon to the House.
Mr. IIUSKISSON thought it would not be very
necessary to detain the }Luse at any great length to
prove that the present Acts, called Spitalfield Acts,
ought not to remain the law of Ake trade. Btfute
any argument was drawn from any alleged su-
periority of condition on, the part of these operative
workmen, it should be recollected what had so often
taken place whenever the demand on the consuirp.
tion of these articles so manufactured experieaced a
mateiial decline The greatest distress liact,ani-
ferrite followed,,,pod the funds of both the parish amsl
she, public fiid been called in. aid .mott.. largely. Ia
reply to the main argemeti.ts of COurasel, he should
only ask those persoet copied :1n the trade, 'what
must be the effect camtlict, gpit,alfaelds weaver if . the
manufacturers at 'Coventry, or ciseaibere, continue
to supply the market.at nearly half the price-tbat. the
Spitalfields vicaver,chaiged for the,_ article, lowing
principally tsq, thr incr.eased rate of wages?. a
very short time ti;e4pitalfields manufacturer must
Abe shut out, of. tbet pa:arises altogether, and the whole
trade its th# on of the town must 12e plunged into
,the greatest distress and misery—,(Cries of Heidi.,
hear! J—Since. the year 1775 no alteration took place
in the rates of wages. How could this, it alight be
asked, ,possibly haepen, avith, the many fluctuations
that had in that time taken place ut the prices of pro-
visionsof all other articles? It was urged at
.Magistrates were competent to regulate
the
bar
,at nbda
the rate of wages. This.he could not Alitgii-
`trates might be competent judges of what was suth-
tient subsistence for a family for 24. hours, but they
could not be able to fix accurately the 0-ripcpleycii
egaritriacilleys
that dependld so much on the peculiar tcltiag,. The
taorgeuvuLeyn.tsspeucseicils .at the
mthaen.ubfaacrturweou.alsd.to apply
was but one.argwaieut iu whichthe in some degree
concurred, that these.. regulations prevented the ma-
nufactairers from.. growing too extensive ..in ;he int
trepous„ •He weuld- allow that it . *Us 4iot deinratoe
to extend what-might be considered a -spse6essof

I

nopoly. Still, if they did not repeal those laws, the
ultimate consequence must be, that they would s
the manufacturer labouting under, such difficulty as
might bring inevitable distress on the metropolis,.-.
The. Petitioners did not object to the use of matihi-
miff. The reason why machinery had not been in-
troduced, was because the wages continued the same.
Were they now to determine the wages in every trade,
it could not-fail to bring the country into great dif-
ficulty: After having proceeded so far with the Pill,
he must Oka to the Committee up stairs. .
Mr. ELLICE supported the motion for inquiry.
The labourer of Spitalfields conceived his interests to
be affected by the proposed pill, and whether he was
right or wrong in this conception, ;be assertion of it
was sufficient to call for inquiry. He (Mr. Ellice)
was, however, no advocate fur these restrictions upon
trade generally .
colonel WOOD spoke in favour of the Amend.
meat. • He bore testimony to the orderly and good
conduct of the men in the militia regiment under his
command, who were principally engaged in the Spi-
talfields trade.
Mr. P. MOORI said that this Bill had been hur-
ried so much, that he had not had time to look at
the evidence. In his (Mr. Moore's) Pill, which he
contended would relieve the country from all its dif-
ficulties —(4 laugh), the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Huskisson) recommended deliberation to him. He
hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman himself would de-
liberate before he attempted to pass this Bill into a
law. The Petitioners in favonr of it were mere un-
dertakers, men who wished to patch up their fallen
fortunes at the expense of the Public. The advan-
tage of the existing regulations was clear from this,
that for the last twenty years not one weaver in Spi-
talfields had occasion to appeal to the poor rates for
relief. Magistrates were fully competent to regulate
the wages. There was no such di fficoltyin ;he matter as
the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson) supposed.
Far the last thirty-four years there were only two
crestious of difference between the masters and jour..
ney men referred to a Magistrate. Something should
be done to shew the Petitioners that there.was no
disposition to trample ott them; he would therefore
recommend to have the matter referred to a Corn.
mittee up stalls.
Mr. T. WILSON
.said lie believed the repeal of
these regulations would be ultimately beneficial to
the parties themselves. At the same time, after the ar
guments theyhad heard at the bar, he thought it might
be advisable .to grant the Committee. He had no
doubt that every branch of trade would go on best
when left perfectly free. He knew many of the Pe-
titioners in favour of the sill to be of the highest re.
spectability, and in point of fortune, whatever the
Hon. Gentleman (Mr.P. Moore) might have heard
to the contrary, he (Mr. Wilsoo) wished he was on a
par with them. He believed tiwir only object was to
the means of giving full employment to their
capital in Spitaltields, without being under.the neces-
sity of sending to other places to have certain articles
mrnufactured.
' Mr. HUME said that no case had been made out
at the bar. The principles of the Bill were generally
admitted, and he saw no reason why they should not
. be acted upon. The House ought not to attempt
great reforms at once, but proceed by degrees, by
which they would avoid doing injury to a great num-
ber of people. He thought his lion. Friend the Mem-
ber for Coventry, Wrong in both his positions; and
after him came another Hon. Member, who said that
those who were formerly against the repeal of those
Acts were pow in favour of that measure. It appeared
to him (Mr. Hume) that this change of opinion, added
to the arguments used at the bar, and now repeated,
were unanswerable in favour of the MU. The master
kanafacturers, with very few exceptions, had cicti-
• tioned in favour of the Bill, twit therefore it would
be only a waste of time to go into the Committee.—
With vegard to what had been said respecting the
poor rates in Spitalfields, it was proved by die Re-
port before the House, that the majority of the people
seeking parochial relief in that district were weavers.
Indeed,- if it could be proved that one manufacturer
who had been in the habit of employing 15Q men,
and paid to them 5,0001, per annum, did not
row pay 51. he thought it veal utterly impossible
but that those persons who had ceased to be em-
ployed must have felt the press4re of the times, and
been compelled to apply for parochial relict, and that
lie thought formed an argument rather in favour of
than in opposi:ion to the Bill. Ie wa* quite aware
that it was desirable that a measure like that before
the House should be carried with the consent of all
parties. The Bill was founded upon what he deemed
immutable principles, and he should therefore give
to it his most cordial support.
Mr. BRIGHT said, the measure was one of ex-
treme importanie—the parties interested in it being no
fewer than 50,000 men, residing in London, and the
whole population of Coventry and Macclesfield, for
which reason alone he thought a Committee ought
to be granted. The excess of poor-rates in Spital-
fields did not arise from the applications of weavers
only, but from bricklayers, carpenters, shoemakers,
and other mechanics residing in that district, who
had felt the pressure of the times. He felt extreme
surprise at the opposition given to the appointment of a
Committee by his Honourable Friend the Member
for Aberdeen—he who, during his whole life, had
been an advocate for inquiry. The Hon. Member
then referred to the disturbed state of Spitalfields be-
fore the Act of the 13th Geo. 111. was passed, con-
tending that similar outrages might be apprehended
were that Act now repealed. The Honourable Gen-
tleman also read an extract from the Report, proving
that the parties who had been most distressed in Spi-
talfields were not weaverso He would contend, that
there was not a more orderly or a more respectable
class of • working men in England than the weavers
of Spitalfields. The question was between London,
Coventry, and Macclesfield. The certain consequence
of repealing thelaws wouldle, to drive all the trade
to London—the la-manufacturers of which, so far
from being on the decrease, were proved by evidence
before the House to be increasing; so that we had at
present both a London and a country trade, which
would continue so long as the laws now existing were
unrepealed. By that state of things both were bene-
fitted.; and, he asked, would the House, by the re-
- peal of these laws, run the risk of throwing out of
employment, and rendering discontented, that nu-
rncroos class of people, the weavers of Spitalfields?
lie would net contend that those laws were not sus-1

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