Star.
London, England, 1812-06-26 00:00:00

LINCOLN JAIL.-PETITION OF MR. HOLDEN.

Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY called the attention
of the House to the complaints contained in this per-
son's petition. He had been long confined for debt,
but riot conceiving that he received that treatment to
which he had a right, he complairml t, the gaoler,
who gave him no other satisfaction than calling him
rascal and scoundrel, and took him before the Magi-
strates of the County, who ordered him to be con-
fined in the condemned cells, where he remained for
a period of eleven days, without being permitted to
see or converse with any other person than the under
gaolers, or allowed the use cif pen, ink, and paper.
He (Sir Samuel Romilly) observed, that although he
thought this a very grave case fin- the consideration
of Parliament, yet as they were in possession of only
ex-parte evidence, he should at present content hiM.
selt with moving for a Committee to hear evidence
one both sides, and to report the same to the House.
fie ought also to observe, that he had'another reason
for limiting himself that far, because Mr. Holden was.
now at liberty. He declared that it was far from his
mind to remove that legal and necessary subordina-
lion which must exist in every place of confinement;
but, without meaning any thing disrespectful of 4he
Magistrates, he wished to trace abuses, if possible,
1.0 a corrupt source, and remove them. Perhaps
there was mi class of people whose situation required
ihe attention of that House more than people ton-
fined lor debt, and Parliament acknowledged it as
often as they passed a Bill for their liberation...—
(Ilear, /ear).—Bur at present they were to consider
:lie situation of a debtor put in s-litary confinement
eleven days and nights by the authority of a Ma-
gistrate. Now he would take the liberty of asking
by what authority such Magistrate acted I He did
not know by what statute law, and he knew he had
Stu right to do so by the common law. If the pri-
soner be a felon indeed, such authority was vested in
non to prevent ay escape. But he heard that many
Nought such authority to exist over a debtor, and
hat even some lawyers were ot opinion, the Act of
the 81st of his present Majesty conferred that autho.
int). He, however, caretully perused that act witn-
out being able to find any oiie clause to countenance
the opinion. He understood, that when Mr. Hol-
den was first confined a bed was sent him by the
gaoler, with which he was dissatisfied, and J.. ap-
i,lied for permission to have his own bed taken in to
him, to which indulgence he was ciunled by the Act
of the 32d of George the Second, which provided,
" that prisoners brought into any gaol for debt,
shall have the privilege of bringing in weer own beds,
and shall not be compelkd to take or hire any from
he gaoler." That was consented to ; but the goo-
ier, however, 'told him, that he must go to the Pau-
pers' Watd, where there were seven beds and thir-
t.'en prisoners. This was in the month ot June, when
the weather was very warm, and a double-An ated door
prevented a free circulation of air.—(Near, hear.).:-.
Oars, then, was Mr. Holden, and die other priso.
aers in that Ward, punished for his offence. These
facts he had learned, upon the authority of an affida-
vit sworn before a Magistrate. It would be recol-
lected that, some time back, a petition was presented
to the House from Mr. Finnerty, and as soon as the
news reached of the discussion whick took place upon
it, he was removed from the place of his confinement,
which strongly shewed the great public advantaw
which resulted from the discussions of that House,
and he doubted not but many would be relieved •of
the rigour of confinement by his present motion. An
advantage WAS attained by the Public upon another
. motion made by him, when he was in a minority of
six, in consequence of its being denied that the abuse
of which he complained did exist, yet he had since
seen an order from a very high authority, comman-
ding the suppreision in future. He was much aft aid-,
that great abuses did at present exist in Lincoln Gaol,
and that Magistrates connived at them—( Cries of
No, as.) Mr. Tinnerty's petition represented, that
one Magistrate told him, he could be accommodated
with .a better room for three guineas, and on Mr.
Fitinerty's representing that really he had no such
money, another Magistrate, who was present, told
him, " I understand there is a subscription for you." 4
Since the facts were disclosed, a meeting of the Ma--
gistrates was held, at which they came to Resolta..
tions for the future management of the prison ; and
it containing nine rooms, seven were placed at the
d:sposal of the gaoler, to let to prisoners confined for
debt, and two were allotted for those who could not
afford to pay for a bed. In another place, caned the
Low Cells, under the Chapel, •refractory and disor-
derly debtors were to be pnt. He understood the gao-
ler had a salary of 4300 a-year allowed him, yet a
case occurred of a pris-ner dying in the night from
want ot medical assistance, because the gaoler must
not be disturbed.—( Criu of No, no.) All these facts
were detailed in the public papers, yet no answer
was given them, at least through the same channel.
( Hear, hear.) He was glad to be cheered by
an Honourable Gentleman who expressed a wish, in
his absence, to proceed as early as possible to inquire
into the state of the gaol tow in a state of instil tee-
tion. He should like to know what was meant by a
prison being in a state of insurrection, unless it was
spoken as a metaphor. He heard that means were
taking to convince the Sheriff that he ought not, nor
had he a right to interfere in behalf of the prisoners ;
but he (Sir S.) was certain that the Sheriff had not
only the right, but it was his duty to interfere, and
do the prisoners in his custotly justice. The office of
Sheriff wa► a very impoitant one, and not confined
merely to the shew of trumpeting before this Judas.
That distinguished Philanthropist, Mr. Howard, for.
randy undertook the office of Sheriff, but k ever felt

affected prisoners, and his conduct gave such Ned
tion, that no one could be found to prosecute
although a dissenter, and therefore unqualieertieti
that high of The Learned Gentleman concluded
bLyi:e,c4mTophvacti.inaghtsel,e
I:::
%ICI
ahe dt :pc
tbarte
of
a of appointed
:/ih git:dnui rt
et
y,:tl tray•im t •
been, and what now is, the treatment or wesoniertirecw. ;
s
si
need
rlieMraet,r•tarsumslti,iitlaePn4LdtlhtNhaat,tothnee ocfaithcee
clesmj,beerrsifff
‘e,aLs 71;4.
withg
sage
the
tt Ittthei
eprisoners
Learned
tuda dGceeersuhis
Gentleman
justicelqvtaiasi
anft
redadoi
dnwoti
u
character, which Hd,
n‘rdalSvnisecclaatecmlforaosonnlloyfablivyicmtrlytpegroMopoael motivescistrates, try
liegd eanc,,: wasgaoler
couldalso
lcs
o confined
he understood that no blame could attach to mid
his conduct.
duct.
CASTLEREAGH said, he was not at
surprised to hear the Honnurable and Learned Cep
tleman desirous of putting the House in possessicee
evidence upon such transactioas as he had related,
and he felt happy the Motion was made so early,e,
cause, should the House find the truth to have bee
told, it would be the duty of Parliameta to adog
same legislative remedy fir the future. But outt,,
other hand, it was not to be forgot, that if the Itue
were to order an Inquiry on the application ce ewer
prisoner who might alledgc grievances, the House
would get into a state of embarrassment, from1;0.'1:
it could not easily extricate itself. The !melee:4.c
titioning that House, likewise, was more expens;re
than by proceeding in the usual way. which Mr. Hu.
den acknowledged he did not avail himself of.. He
should not, however, oppose the Motion Om an le
quiry, but reserve his farther cpinion until the Hoe
should be in possession of the evidence on both Wet,
Mr. ELLISON said, he had been acting ui
public capacity in Lincoln for upwards of 25 yeah
He agreed with the Learned Gentleman, that neit
the Magistrates nor the gaoler ought to ill treat ety
of their prisoners ; but he would ask the Hag
whether the present was tie hest mode of d scosid
the subject, or to allay the evil spirit wiac', wee;
walking abroad ?—(af/inegh.)—He was afraid teats
was neither, and he Inuch doubted whether ii wosll
be productive of any good. With respect to thecae.
plaints
.4 the manner in which the prisoner Ben
same by his death, was, to his knowledge, unfree.
ed, because it was given in evidence before the Cep
nor, that he was much troubled with a very doge
rous, irritable complaint, and, from his having bee
a very hard liver, a mortification ensued. The Se.
geon, indeed, who had seen him the preceding n*
expressed himself satisfied that he could not livetil
the nett day.—(Hear, hear.)--While the Surges
was giving this in evidence before the Coroner, Kr.
Finnerty went tip to him, called him a dirty feller.
and threatened to strike him. Whenever the'
should take 'place, he was curt it would be falai
that there was not a word of truth in the suttee&
relative to the man deceased, nor in the pretest P
tition of Holden. The met was, Heiden agile sbd
from a fell, .w•-prisoner, and he suspected that &milli
fellow-prisoner had itlormed against hen; be this
proceeded to use very threatening language
him, which induced the other to thi k his Wiwi*
ger. Under these t.ircurnstances,i,ewas coakl
closely t:11 he made a sa apology. '!ti
were the real facts (Item case, aed b wooldre
trouble the House with any other obserratiie, ties
that it was his sincere belief that he postetiede
much humanity as any man who could be ?latch!
his situation ; and he ((told say fo• himself, that li
feelings of humanity were in no respect less
than those of the Hon. and LearnedGeetienwasia
made the motion. The gaoler had :ndeed takes&
opinion of Counsel, and he hoped that opinion trash
not turn out to be a *Tong one.
Mr. BROUGHAM had no with to prolong tie
discussion. He agreed with his Honourable Fried
who made the Motion, that the House could no a
better employed than in protecting most help
mid distressed class of men, the numerous debees
confined in the different gaols. The present mewl
might lead to a great practical improvement. data
an improvement should appear to be wanted. Whit
he had said with respect to the Piofessional Gunk.
men had been misrepresented, as also with tespect to
the gaoler. All that he had stated was, that an i"l'
proper delay had taken place in procuring media
assistance, and that, had such assistance been pint
cured, a more favourable result might have been the
consequence. To prove the contrary was incumbei
upon the as:trey who denied the justness Of his state
ment. Mr. Evans had said before the Cur,
that had he been called earlitr, the consequence night
have been different. He had in
prISSeWt)II 1 state
went, signed by twelve persons, one of whom to bn
sure was Mr. Finnerty, testifying the fact. But'
the statements that the Honourable Baronet and
himself had formerly made respecting the Pr'
_
upon the authority of Mr. Fineerty, bad turned!!!
to be welt founded. The privy of the prince 1,
been 14tely cleansed, and instead of being Mr*
dicular, had been found to be shelving under r*
of the prison where the ptisoners were cone
• s not OA
Anether name was Mr. Dralcard, who wa
apt to complain, as he had on a former °coastal se*
fused to come forward, conceiving himself to be. wt.
treated. But he (Mr. Brougham) had no
tWta
to say, that f the statement made were corm'
,f
Coroner had d.scharged his duty in a very rei) r 7.:;„
sible marntr, as he had workmen emptoyed a ,
the gaol ups.; the inquest. Judge Blackstone
justly obsetve that this (Ace was too much .
IT
.
4111
hands of low men, and consequently was liable
S• id
abused. '1 he verdict pronounced *as D,
visitation of God." Three, however, who sem tir—
the Inquest, wished to have returned a elite ent
diet—but the Coroner had told them, they me.
bring it in wilful murder, or died by the
wcinuareaci;
of GA: This, he had no doubt, was
on the part of the Coroner. The
three pets"
were°
whom he had alluded wished to have found e
of the W.-
that the man had died by the IleglogenCe ist
ler and his Servant, and this ut on the grw""—
tune.
jolted had wanted medical aid in proper tune.
joked that the present inquiry wuuld be ro
and hoped that t lemanagernent of the tea.'l,
be found to be proper, and that be !time%
considering the evidence, that was handy
had been Imataken in his statement.
Colonel ELLISON understood die Odd.
hwisis

man had died by the negligence dt tint Geoid-, they
were bound to say so.
air F. 13IIRDETT wished to mate a fe* obser.
vations on
the subject of Gaols, on which he had re-
ceived many communications, and thought it highly
necessary that a general inquiry should take place.
This inquiry, he hoped, would not be like that into
the Prison in the Cold-bath Fielde. That had pro..
eeeded in consequence of aCommissionfesa the King,
by, which the Commissioners were prevented from
seeing any retrospect whatever of past transactions.
Tee present, he hoped, would be a fair inquiry. When
be came down to the House, he had intended to have
made many statements, which whet he had since
bare had rendered unnecessary. In the case of the
eeel.beth-fields, he had wished to draw the attention
of the House to the new system of solitary imprison-
mese This system was sanctioned by the high au-
thority of Mr. Howard, a name dear to every friend
of humanity, but a more mistaken notion could not
be conceived. He (Sir F. Burdett) trusted they would
riven to the old system, and turn from one which
gave so much power to a gaoler over his prisoners,
and against whom, upon the present system, no evi-
deice could be brought. As to the man who had
died, their own surgeon thought him so ill, that he
could not be expected to live till morning, and yet he
had no medical aid. This sheaved a great want of
feeling and of humanity. He himself had a state-
rent, signed by a number of persons, importing that
the Coroner was in the habit of borrowing money
from the Gaoler, and even the Magistrates. The
Gaoler was said to he worth 020,000. The ordinary
mode of examination in such a case as this was. a
perfect mockery to the party injured. How did the
effect agree with the ideas of Mr. Howard ? In the
present ease, the whole area of the prison had been
occupied by tho gaoler for a garden, a place to keep
his cattle, and for a warm bath, which he had per-
suaded the Magistrates to erect. Mr. Howard had
endeavoured to guard against those abuses, and had
stated expressly, that there could be no use for irons
in the care of men confined, that the sources of con-
tamination should be stepped, and access to vicious
society be prevented. This, joined to suitable untrue-
lion, might do good. There had been instances of
lately confinement inflicted for a year, 15 months,
and even sometimes for two years, where all benefi-
cial consequences had been precluded. He should no
longer trespass on the time of the House should the
facts turn out not to be true, those who had stated
them wouid be covered with disgrace, and if the con-
trary should be found upon inquiry, that disgrace
trust light on a different quarter.
Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE observed, that the con-
duct of the Commissioners, in the case of the Cold-
bath-fields Prison, had now, for the tirsi time, been
called in question. The Hon. Baronet, if he had any
ileig to etiject to them, should ;lave brought forward
is charge secuier. In his own case, if his conduct
sere to be called it question, he always wished it
might be as speedily as possible. The facts stated
in the Petition, then presented from Cold-bathefields,
had beer) completeiy negatived. On the subject of
solitary imprisonment, ar.d the effects to be expected
from it, he agreed with the Hon. Baronet. He
hoped every Debtor in Lincoln Gaol would be
brought before the Committee, and give his evidence
upen oath.
Sir F. BURDETT stated, in explanation, that he
had imputed no blame to the Commissioners ap-
pointed to inquire into the state of the Cold.bath-
fields Prison, but only to the Commission itself, by
which their powers were limited ; but it had been
proved that Aris had borrotVed money of his pri.
loners, to the amount of £1100; that he had beaten
them, and sold them indulgencies, to which they
were otherwise entitled.
Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE explained.
Mr. WILBERFORCE observed, that Mr. Ho-
ward had mentioned cases where he had known soli •
tart' imprisonment productive of good. So that it
was not a matter of mere speculation.
Sit SAMUEL ROMILLY should only speak to
what concerned himself. A Gentleman on the oppo-
Site side had said, leat he (Sir Samuel Romilly) had
Calmed to himself all the humanity of the country.
Bad any man, either in or out of that House, heard
him talk of his humanity ? The man who would talk
ofbis humanity must be the basest of human beings.
The Honourable Gentleman had said, what' could
be more mischievoiis than what he (Sir Simnel ko-
Ink) was doing ? He had only presented a Pe-
tition, which no Member of that House would
refuse. if there were a man who would refuse
it,
he was unworthy to. represent the Commons of
England. The persons
who attempted to contradict
the statement, and were unable, were they who did
the mischief. A man had been confined eleven days
because he had quarrelled with another. Was that
a reason s by a man should be debarred from all so-
ciety, and from the use of pen and ink ? Those who
set up the defence did the evil.—The man with
whom he had quarrelled had been also stated as a
Iran /).r
no credit and yet he had not been dismissed
tilhe had written'
a letter of contrition and submission
to his
!PPresser, otherwise he might have been con-
fined,,en eleven
d weeks. The Honourable Gentleman had
17,
sad.e. himself from the charge of eloquence, but
wi• _d, that he (Sir S. Romilly) brought in a Peti-
;.%
_hoebn the gaol was in a state of insurrection.
Mle
agistrate
had said, why won't you apply to
671)e :: g Magistrate ? but here the Magistrate was
n complained of. He concurred with the
Honourable Baronet in what had been said of soli-
t▪ ary imprisonment, and he was desirous, at a future
tnnei to move, that all the sentences of solitary con-
t:elaet.cnt pronounced at the Quarter Sessions should
tCId before the House. What took place at the
otiok pacteita'.:Session.s ought to be known, as well as what
e at the Assizes, as he, having the highest
_respect for the Magistrates who pronounced them,
bthad heard sentences at the Quarter Sessions, which,
thought, wauld not have been given at the Assizes,
lad therefore it was the more important they should
be known.
Lord CASTLEREAGH and Sir S. ROMILLY
mutually
eae vied.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL strongly depree
ct.eatend.theacen_sure which the Honourable and Learned
ete—"duineignwnwhad cast upon the Magistrates ; a pro-
i.e.h he thought peculiarly calculated to
eite sus ' v
irerepieien and distrust in the minds of those
Z. to be judged by them. The opinion of
erable and Learned Gentleman was of great

Weight in the cotHtt, an 4 tilettfdre It was the Owe
incumbent upon him to be guarded in his expressions.,
The tribunals of the country he thought ought to be
upheld He should not oppose the Committee being
appointed, at the same time he thought it would
have been a tnore adviseable course, to have had any
necessary exatitidations and inquiries made upon the
',pot. •
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY explained, and con-
tended that it was farthest from his intention to
speak with any thing like disrespect of the Magis-
trates, or distrust of their conduct ; and he appealed
to the House, if he had said any thing that could
be so construed. (Hear, Lear.) He could not allow
such an imputation to be fixed upon him, even by one
who called himself his Honourable Friend. (Hear.)
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) vindicated Sir SA-
muel Romilly from the charge of having intended to
convey any disrespectful opinion of the Magistrates.
Sir CHARLES MORDAUNT supported the
motion, when the Committee was granted, and the
following Members-were among those who were no-
minated : Mr. Brougham; Sir Francis Burdett, Sir
Samuel Romilly, Mr. Wilberforce, Mr. Bankes, Lord
Folkstone, and Mr. Davis Giddy.
Lord CASTLEREAGH moved, that the name
of Sir Thomas Plomer be added to the Committee ;
to which Sir Samuel Romilly objected, not on per.
sonal grounds, but he was against exceeding the ori-
ginal number 21, and of establishing an irregular
and very inconvenient precedent; the nomination of 1
I
the Members was usually left to the person who
moved for such a Committee.

Sir THOMAS PLOMER was unwilling to have
his name placed on the Committee. He was not in
a situation to attend, and begged to be excused by
the House.—The Motion was withdrawn.

Lord CASTLEREAGH then proposed that the
name of Wellesley Pole should be withdrawn, and
that of Mr. Lygon substituted in its stead, because
there was too small a proportion of County Members.
The House then divided on the question of Mr.
Lygon's name—Ayes, 36—Noes, 27—Majority, 9.
After which the House continued debating an hour
with closed• doors, on the motion for adding the
names of Mr. W. Bootle, Mr. Home Sumner, and
Mr. Hobhouse, which was at length carried without
a division.