Star.
London, England, 1813-06-24 00:00:00

THOMAS CROGAN.

Lord A. HAMILTON moved the order of the
Day, for bringing Thomas Crogan to the Bar, in or.
der to his being discharged ; and in doing this he
could not avoid congratulating the House on the
abrogation of a practice which had so long guided
their proceedings—lie meant the enforcing persons
confinrd by them, previous to their being discharged,
to petition the House, acknowledging their guilt, and
the Justice of their punishment ; a practice which, in
his opinion, was contrary to justice, and not necessary
tor the support of the dignity of the House.
Mr. Crogan having been placed at the Bar, in the
custody of the Serjeant Arms, the SP4AKEI4 ad-
dressed him as follows :
" Thomas Croggn, this House having hnd under
its consideration dig proceedings which took place at
theist election for the Borough of Tregony, rrsol-
cied, that you, opeply and corruptly, endeavoured to
procutse die return c 4 two Members to represent !hat
borough in Farliamem, contrary to the orders of this
Houw, to the freedom of election, atn4 to the I,Aws
i$ 9onstit4ion of this and; jo Rabrypienct

oithstoffence, you were committed to his Majesty's
gaol of Newgate. In, these transactions it appears,
according to the evidence before this House, that the
part you bore was prominent.and profligate, inviting
some persons by the promise of a large reward, to
undertake the general task of corrupting the Borough,
and holding out to others the prospect of a specific
fund, from which the price of their votes was to be
paid. Such flagrant conduct was justly visited by
the severity of this House, in sending you to confine-
ment. Considering the length of your imprisonment,
the House is now induced to order your discharge,
hoping that the notoriety of your offence and of your
punishment, will check the occurrence of similar
practices ; and you are now discharged, on paying
your fees. Serjeant, take him from the Bar."
Mr. Crogan—Mr. Speaker, I am unable —"
The SPEAKER—" Serjeant, take him away."
He was immediately removed from the Bar.
Tits satexasn Tnaxry.
On the Report of the Resolution of the Committee
of Supply for granting a Subsidy to Sweden being
brought up,
Mr. BANKES said, though he had no intention
of opposing this grant, he wished now to take that
opportunity, which had not before occurred, of de-
livering his sentiments on this most important subject;
and, preparatory to so doing, he should move to have
read the Resolution entered on the Journals in De-
cember, 1796, relative to the rant of a Subsidy to
Austria. The Resolution having been read, stating,
" That the issue of money by Ministers, during a
sitting of Parliament, without communicating the
same to the House, should not be drawn irate a pre-
cedent, except in a case of equal necessity." Mr.
Bankes renewed. He should cot have drawn the at-
tention of the House to this subject now, had it not
appeared that the case of the recent secret advance to
Sweden differed most materially from the advance tr.)
Austria, there being in the present case no necessity
for concealing the grant, although the object of it
could not, perhaps, have been communicated. He'
thought, in this case, the House had reason to com-
plain of having been kept in the dark longer than
was necessary. Of the Treaty itself be highly dis-
approved ; and for this reason, that it was- one by
which, of all others, we paid the most and got the
least. What did we get by it ? nothing.morf than
that priority should be given to the expedition to the
Continent rather than to the seizure of Norway. He
had particularly to complain of the ambiguity which
ran through this Treaty, and expressed his doubts
whether the Noble Lord would be able to answer se-
veral of the questions which he should have to put to
him. I t particularly appeared to him that wewereliable,
and should be called upon, to do all we had engaged
to do, and should receive nothing in return : and that
the result to us would be the loss of this great sum
(C 1,000,000 of money) and the giving up a most vA-
luable island, whilst we should receive no benefit in
return. He wished to ask whether all the benefits which
we ever contemplated receiving from this Treaty did
not depend upon the Swedes being joined by 35,000,
Russians ? Whether it was ever probable that Russia
would ever furnish this contingent ? And if it was
not, where was the policy of entering into such a
Treaty as this ? Another question he wished to ask,
was, whether, if Sweden was included in the armis-
tice ? or if not, whether Russia, froth being included
in it, was not prevented sending his contingent ? and
if, in either of those cases, we were not to be re-
leased from paying these monthly Subsidies ? If we,
were not, there was a great neglect in the interests
of this country. He would also ask whether, in the
event of Sweden making peace with France, but not
with Denmark, we should not, under the articles of
this Treaty, be liable to be called on to assist Sweden
in taking possession of Norway ? The Hon, Gentle-
man then, after taking an extended review of the
foundation of the Treaty, said, it appeared to him a
contract, improvidently entered into—and that it
was probable we should lose this large sum of money
without receiving any equivalent whatever. He de-
precated in strong terms the stipulations for giving
up Guadaloupe, an island so important, which hsa
cost us so much to obtain possession of, and which
had proved and might prove so mischievous to our
interests whilst in the hands of an enemy; pnd wished
to know v briber, if the present Artnisticibhould ter-
minate in a Peace, the barely landing the Swedish
troops at Stralsund, was sufficient to call on us to
fulfil our stiputit,on for the cession of this important
Island ? The H.m. Gentleman then adverted to what
he considered as the only advantage which this coun-
try was to receive in return for all their sacrifices,
viz. the right of Entrepot in tour Swedish ports, for a
term of twenty years ; but even allowing every pos-
sible importance to this concession to this country, and
that there was every wish and inclination on the part
of Sweden, to insure to us all ahe advantages result-
ing from that arrangement, how could we insure to
ourselves the continuation of the power of Sweden to
extend those advantages to us for a continuance ?
Might not Sweden, as she and Russia had before
been obliged to do by the power of France, again ex-
clude us from those ports ? He concluded by calling
on the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) to explain the
strong reason which could induce him to enter into
what appeared, in every view of it, a rash and expen-
sive agreement, by which we might be engaged in a
war with Denmark, after all other contests on the
Continent had ceased.

Lord CASTLEREAGH having, on a former
night, gone at length into this question, he should
now only feel it necessiry to answer those questions
which had been put to him by the Hun. Gentleman
just sat down ; and first, as to having made advances
while Parliament was sitting, without making any
communication to the House; he had, before thrown
himself on the House, and pleaded the necessity, and
stated, that, under all the circumstances, he had
thought it better to advance on his own responsibi.
lity the sums called for from the funds placed at the
disposal iat the Crown, than to come to the House for
a grant, at a time when he could not have stated
the grounds on which he made that 'application,-..
As to the Honourable Gentleman% apprehens►ons
of the Treaty tailing from 3 want of concert oil
the part of Russia, ne could assure him, that there
was the fullest assurance of the Treaty tiring tultilled
by the Prince Royal qt Sweden, who had the cause
he had embarked m as sincerely ist beat; as any pian
could have; apil who hag 4 'tune now under his
command in Cormany t.►r eaireeoiiis the amount of
h►, contingent! As to the Right lion, gentleman's
question respecting Geact4loupc, he ty.its tigt prepared

to give the Honourable Gentleman any answer ; ltd
his Majesty's Government were not justified in
making any disclosure on this point at present. The
Treaty was, on the whole, the most important that
could be entered into in the existing state of the
world; and the force under the Prince of Sweden was
the best calculated of any to cnntroul the power of
France, by giving an effectual assistance to Russia.
Mr. BANKES, in explanation, said, he thought k
would be more wise and dignified for us to hare en.
tered into a direct Treaty with Russia.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the best time and
manner had been chosen for obtaining the wished for
co-operation.—The Resolution was then agreed to.

0011MITTEX OF SUPPLYPORDNANCE UTIMATES.
The House having resolved itself into a Committee
of Supply,
Mr. R. WARD rose to propose the Ordnance Es.
timates. The Estimate, he stated, would exceed that
of last year, by 5e150,000. The new expenses were
£330,000. There was, consequently, a diminution
in the current expenses, principally on the ankle of
Stores. The new expenses were principally on the
Horse Artillery and Artillery Drivers, and in pus.
chase of Land. The sum it might be necessary to
remark on was £90,000, for theptunhase of Land at
Portsmouth. Vast sums had been expended on the
works of that place, and these works would be use.
less, unless a comparatively small sum was expended
in completing them. When the late Duke of Rich.
mond had, man?' years ago, asked for money to corn.
plete the works, at was refused him. The consequence
was, that the ground intended to be purchased was
covered with houses: and he thought it would be
better for the strength of Portsmouth, that the whole
of this ground should be in the possession of Govern.
meat ; for if these houses should get into the posses.
ion of an enemy, they could be turned into a means
el' annoying our works. To prevent, however, any
evil from an enemy attacking the (omega on the land
side, it was deemed necessary to erect works at Hilf
sea, which would completely annoy and obstruct an
enemy on the land side. He then concluded with
moving his Resolutions.
Mr. CALCRAFT said, that an invasion could
not be effected unless the enemy were masters of the
sea, in which ease Portsmouth could not stand. He
hoped that before any thing were proceeded into, an
estimate of the whole work would be laid before Par-
liament, for to this sort of expenditure no limit. could
otherwise be set. In the case of Jersey, they began
with a few thousands—in 1806, they voted 030,000;
then 4215,000, £20,000, £lO,OOO, £37,000, £40,000,
and in this year 5160,000. So that the whole expence
was 4244,000. Praise was due to the Hon. Gentle.
man (Mr. Ward), on the small amount of the " Un-
provided," and for the estabiishment of Sappers, and
the augmentation of the Horse Artillery ; he did not,
however, see any necessity for the augmentatioe of tha
Artillery Drivers' Corps.
Mr. tREEMANTLE- doubted whether it would
be advisable at this time to expend £90,000 in new
works, for which there was no apparent necessity.
Under our present difficulties, the purchases in ques-
tion should not have bees made, when there appeared
no necessity for them.
• Mr. J. SMITH called to the attention of the Com-
mittee the expence of 022,300 in Trinidad.
Mr. POLE CAREW observed, though the de.
fences of Plymouth Dock (in the neighbourhood of
which he resided) had been improved, yet houses had
been suffered to be erected on the glacis, of such
substance, that even in ruins they would afford a
lodgment for a besieging army; so that all expense
was thrown away unless they were demolished.
Mr. BARING objected to the expenditure on
Portsmouth, the fortification being one wtoetl ewsr,
even after this expense, remain imperfect.
Mr. HUSKISSON hoped, that even if the ground
were purchased at Portsmouth, no other expense
would be incurred ; but that the fortificat.ons there
'might remain a lesson of works useless, or worse thus
useless.

Mr. WARD expressed pleasure at the candouz
manifested on the other side of the House. The plan
of obtaining an estimate of the whole work. before
any thing was expended, was pursued by the Masters
General of the Ordnance.
Mr. BARIVG. Mr. FRIIIMANTLE, and :sir. W*an,
severally explained.
Colonel WOOD said the barracks at Portsmouth
were unfit for Ilse in ease of an attack on the town,
The docks might be destroyed on the Gosport as well
as the Portsmouth side, and much more expense must
be incurred to answer any effectual purpose. Tney
had better either do good, or not do any thing.
The several sums were then voted.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCREQUER.
after passing a very high encomium on the services of
the army under the command of Lord Wellington,
moved, that the sum of £662,000 be granted for the
extraordinary expenses of the army.
The Hon. W. BENNET said he wished for infor-
mation on some of the articles of expense. The Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had observed truly. that the
principal item was tne Peninsula war. He must enter
his protest against the prosecution of a war which
would wrench the last shilling from the pockets of the
poor, and plunge every ramify its the country into
distress. The success of this war was, to say the lust,
problematical, the ruin and loss certain and dreadful.
The Hon. Member-then alluded to the grants to Col.
Wingfield for raising recruits in Africa for the W,.st
India service, and to Count Delahaye, for raising
Dutch recruits. The latter he could not und-rstantc
and the former be thought highly mischievous, and
likely to be a cover for carrying on the Slave Trade,
He commented severely on titivtonduct of the Pont'.
guese in persisting to carry on that abominable tr dfic
with circumstances of cruelty the most atrocious,
while we were wasting our heart's blood in defence of
their liberty and independence. He thought Govern-
men; might to insist on their ab.unl inment of it. He
ought not to torget that one grant was to a Mr. F.
Cator, for the Invention of a new military cap. He
stiould be glad to know who it was that had advised
the Prince Regent to adopt this most absurd and con-
temptible dress. It was so absurd that when a regi-
ment entered a town, a horse soldier was often obliged
to parade the streets t reconcile the people to the
sight of it. Out war expenses in the last year alone.
had increased hp millions. He would advise
men to consider the consequenc, sot this ruinous sys-
tem of unbounded expense—A syste n which must end
in destroying in people, units; the people y it.
Mr. STF.VHEN defended the conduct et Guveii.-

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rent with respect to Colonel WingGeld's _commis:
&on. Every possible precaution had been taken to
prevent its being abused to any purposes similar to
those of the slave trade.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that every exertion
had been used by his Majesty's Ministers to induce
the Portuguese Government to abandon the practice
of the slave trade.
Colonel WOOD said, that the modern helmets so
riluch abused by the Hon. Member had one advan-
tage over the old-fashioned three cocked hats, that of
being sabre proof.
FREEMANTLE urged the necessity of re-
trenching our public expenditure. -He lamented the
thinness of the House on so important a subject,
v hen not less than thirteen millions were to be voted
away. He repeated some of the questions asked by
Mr. Bennet, and desired to know the meaning of
certain sums of money granted to Sir Sidney Smith
for reimbursement of losses in Egypt and Spain ?
Mr. 4BERCROMBY thought it singular that
this sum for New South Wales should not have ap-
peared in the Colonial Estimates. It was desirable
to have the whole expense of that Colony in one col-
lected form.

Mr. GOLDBOURNE said, that the expense of
the cast iron water-works was defrayed by the colony
itselt. The depot at Lymington was for officers and
men who had deserted from the French in the Pe.
tinsula.
The Hon. Mr. LAW observed, that it was his firm
opinion, without some radical change in our military
system, millions after millions would be thrown away
in the Peninsula without producing any good effect.
It was necessary to advert to the great change which
Lad taken place in the military system of Europe
during the last twenty years. It was in vain to hope
tor maintaining the struggle with success, while
France was armed with the power of conscription,
and we could only fill our armies by voluntary en-
listment. Some late regulations inimical to rapid
promotion in the army, had a tendency to depress
merit. Neither, excepting in our artillery, were there
any facilities for military instruction. Another sub-
ject was deserving of serious attention. One half of
our troops at the end of any campaign was unfit for
duty.

Mr. BANKES was astonished that any person
could conceive a military conscription teconcilable
with a free Constitution. The Hon. Gentleman who
spoke last had thought proper to propose France,
which was armed with a comicription, as a model for
us to follow. May HEAVEN forbid that we should
ever see the day that a conscription should be adop.
ted or followed in this country. This would be truly

" Propter vitam vivendi perdere Eausam."

As to the expenditure of the country, those who were
best acquainted with the finances of the country knew
that at the present rate this country could not carry
on the war much longer. By the wretched and de.
lusive system of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, we
might indeed live three years longer.
The Honourable Mr. LAW explained. He did
not recommend conscription for this country. But
what was the great difference to a free Englishman,
between being taken to Leland as a militia man, and
being sent to fight the battles of his country in Spain ?

General FERGUSON heard the favourable men-
tion of conscription with regret, and astonishment.
With respect to the medical department of our army,
few. people who had not been on were jadges.
DiseasP, he believed, was not more frequent in our
army than in any other exposed to the same climate.
At any rate he was sure that no medical department
in any service was better than ours.
Lord PALMERSTON vindicated the character
of the Medical Department, maintaining that the
French had suffered much more by disease in the
nurse of the war en the Peninsula than our army
hail done.

Sir I'. BARING stated that bills drawn by the
Commissariat in Portugal had fallen to a discount of
from 20 to 30 per cent. in consequence of the diffi-
culty of obtaining payment for them in this country.
At the same time he understood, that some of these
bills were paid from partial considerations. This
practice he deprecated as not only unjust but injua
cious, as inconsistent with economy, and as affecting
the credit of the Government. He understood that
a considerable amount of debt had been contracted
in the Peninsula, in consequence partly of these
transactions; but dtbt must be the consequence of
rich a system, for bad economy must lead to debt
and bad credit.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
Ttated that the subject mentioned by the Honourable
1; :r met had for some time occupied the consideration
of the Treasury.
Mr. BENNETT asked, what was the amount of
the arrears due to Our army in the Peninsula ?
Mr. VANSITTART ansvrered, ?bout three or
!Jur months.
Mr. BENNETT observed, that he understood the
army had not been paid since the 24th of December
last.

Mr. LONG said, he could state, from his own
knowledge, that our army had been paid up to the
24th of March last.
In reply to an observation from Mr. BARING,
(r. VANSITTART stated, that there is at pre.
rent a supply of provisions 'in the Peninsula foran
anny of 100,000 men for a considerable period.
The Resolution was agreed to. • •
Mr. VANSITTART then moved a grant of
4100,000 in aid of the Poor Clergy.
After a few words from Mr. BAILING) who. opposed
't•e grant, on the grounds that thg rich Clergy should
;.rovide for their poor brethren ; and Mr. W. &SITU.
ir.d Mr. WESTERN) on the same side, and Mr. VAN.
tITTART) in support of the grant, it was agreed to
11P3R a division, the numbers being-94 in favour of
the grant, 20 against it.
Several other Resolutions were then agreed to, the
House resumed, and 'the Report was ordered to be
received this day.
Mr. BANXEB brought in a Bill to secure the Purity of Elec-
tion in the Borough of fichtone. Read a first, and ordered to
he read a second time on Friday.
The Curates Bill was read a second time, and committed for
I►hursday neat.
The Committee on the Corn Resolutions was postponed till
to-day.
'l'ae Irish Spirits and the Pot Ash Bills were severally read a
third time and passed.
'the uther Orders were disposed or and the Houle adjourned
at HAL, PAST OWN.

THE EVENING STAR

LONDON.