Star.
London, England, 1823-05-09 00:00:00

Grand Jury on the Ist of List month, in which.
complaining .of. the diargei mach agiiast theM by
the. Attornet.Generil, they. stated, tg That these,
".,tharges;.were heavier, they were-unable to
reply toilietp; beinj bound by an oath not to ills,
close the evidence which was taken before thelith=
'This shewed the impression .which was made upon
their minds. For my own part, I shall vote that the
question be noi put.
Mr. BROUGI-IA M.—l certainly have no objection"
to give an opinion upon the abstract question, but if
the Sheriff declares this inqdiry to be necessary to
his defence, 1 shall vote for going on with it.
Mr. DAWSON.—The Petition of the Grand Jury
should not influence the judgment of this. [louse.
They were broadly charged, and they. ought to be
heard in self-defence.
Mr. TIERNEY.—Let us examine such of the
Grand Jury as feel no scruples, and possibly an ex'
ception would never be taken, and the abstract ques-
tionwould never be raised.

Mr. CANNING—If we are agreed to pronounce
no opinion upon the abstract question, the safe.t way
is to stop the inquiry as to the Grand Jury hare. If
we go on, any witness may object to any question,
and then, after all, we will be driven to give an 'opi-
nion on the abstract question; better, therefore, to
get rid of it altogether.
Mr. TIERNEY.—Do I understand, that when any
witness objects, and that the House declines giving a
definite opinion, all the evidence respecting the Grand
Jury up to that time must be expunged?
Mr. CANNING.—Most certainly.
Mr. TIERNEY.—Then it is great waste of titre
to go on putting questions, all of which may be here-
after expunged.
Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS was of an opinion, that
it would be better to put an end• to this business at
once, than to stop without proceeding through the
whole of it ; and as he did not expect that the pre-
sent discussion was likely to have an end, he should.
move that the Chairman do report progress, and ask
leave to sit again that day three months.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH pointed out those passages
in the minutes, from which it appeared, that some of
the Grand Jury had bbjected to answer certain ques-
tions, on account of being resti icted by an oath of
secrecy from answering. He had no doubt of the
authority which that House possessed, of compelling
them to answer all questions put to them; but what-
ever decision the House should come to on that point,
it would be great injustice to the parties now accused,
to stop short without proceeding in the inquiry; par-
ticularly sty, when they had come to London and peti•
timed the House to have their case heard.

Sir G. HILL contended, that the conduct of the
Grand Jury was not necessary to be brought forward
in discussing that of the Sheriff. Indeed, he agreed
with the Hon. Member for Annan, that towards tran-
quillizing the public mind, it would be better to drop
the business at once.

Mr. PLUNKETT said, it was necessary for the
House to decide in the first instance, whether the
Grand Jurors could be compelled to answer the ques-
tions put.to them; and it would be rank injustice to
the Sheriff, either not to enforce such answers, or not
to expunge from the minutes all such evidence as bad
already been.given by the Grand Jurors.
• :••14,r..Y. SMITH said he should move, that under
the circumstances of the case, the Committee did not
think it expedient to proceeed into an inquiry as to
anything that passed before the Grand Jury.
. Colonel BARRY would not agree to have anything
expunged, because he was ready to rest the case for
the defence on what had already occurred, and with
the evidence before the House he should rest satisfied,
and not call any other Grand Juror—(Hear, hear).
Mr. PEEL said, that some statements had been
made which rendered it necessary to know what had
occurred before the Grand Jury.
Mr. BROUGHAM conceived it absolutely meet.
sary for the House to decide on this abstract question.
Here there was a general cry of " Go on, go On."
Colonel BARRY then said he should go on with
the StilinillatillS he. had proposed.
John Davis was accordingly called in, and ex.
amiued by Colonel BARU*.
He knew a person named Addison Hone; he was a man of
high political feeling. Some days before the meeting of the
Grand Jug, he heard Mr. Hone speak to Sheriff Thorpe about
the prosecution, and expressed a wish to be on the Jury; when
-the Sheriff said he was considered a garty man in the City, and
that be (Mr. Thorpe) did not think fit to put him on the Grand
Jury, as there were circumstances of a very peculiar nature com-
ing before it. Witness understood by pasty-man, a high Pro-
testant Ascendancy man—not an Orangeman. Witness is not
an Orangeman. He was one of the Grand Jury lb January last.
A letter was here produced from the Crown Soli-
citor in Ireland, requiring both the Sheriffs to return
a panel.
William Carpenter was nest caged. He said he
was a builder. •
Bassitned by Colonel BARalr.—He knew William Poole.
Heard a conversation between him and Sheriff Thorpe: Mr.
Poole came to him and expressed astonishment at not being put
on the panel. as Mr. Thorpe had promised be should. He said
if he was put on the Jury, be would not interfere with anything
that related to the Theatre ; but he wished to be put on the Jury
on account of Mr. a Meara, whose ease be should be able to ex-
plain to the Joey. Sheriff Tharp' said that that very circum-
stance must prevent his being use of the Jury.
On being cross-examined by Mr. S. RICE; the wit-
ness said he belonged to the Orange Assisciation at
the time be was on the Grand Jury. He had not said
tbatthe bills against the rioters ought to be thrown out.
By Mr. ROSIER! Stn t1f....-Witibeal was acquainted with Mr.
Poole; he thinks Mr. Poole a warm man in politics; was op-
posed to his pofitks : believed his a Conciliation man. Being
asked if he had ever before known of bargains of this kind made
with Sheriffs, he said he had himself got a friend pot oat the
Grand lacy, en his applying to Sheriff White for the Wren.
When Mr. Poole went away, Mr. Thorpe said the circunutanee
which Poole had stated would prevent his being on the paneL
Witness was asked by Mr. tome whether he took an oath as
as Orangemen, and answered is the ailltmative.
What was the nature of that oatlo7-Tri support the Mug
and Consdtution.
Could you sot support the King and Cbastitution without
taking an oath? WM you state the words are iiie•substance of
the oath ?
Mr. GOULBURN objected .to this question, as it
was nor to be expected he could reassanber the words.
Lord MILTON maintained that the question was
a very proper one. , • ,
Colonel BARRY said he was sib Orangeman ; but
the Orangeman's oath was no secret; it was in print.
He hoped the Hoine would not lay it downma Fin!
ciple, that, because a man happened to be an Orange-
man, he was unworthy of being believed. He had
heard many imputations thrown out against Orange-
men, all of which were unfounded and unjust; but
woi►ld say, that they were men who deserved