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VlAcount GOB r presented a Petition from the Freemasons of
the City and County of Limerick, who complained, as it affected
themselves, of the Act of last Session for the suppresiion of Secret
Societies, and humbly praying that they might not be taken as
coming under the provisions of the said Act.—Petition read and
Lid upon the table. _
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a Petition from the
Borough of Tewkesbury, in the County of Gloucester, for. the
Abolition of Slavery in the. Colonies, which was laid upon the table
of the House.
Upon the motion of the Earl of PTZSRURY, the Irish Church
Rates Bill and the Annual Indemnity Bill were respectively read a
third time, pasted, and message..l to the Caymans.
The Marquis of LANSDU\VN brought in a 13111, anthinising
Protestant Dissenters to marry their oviii places of worship.—
The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be primed.
Thu same Noble Lord applied for certain Papers relative to the
West Indies.—Agreed to.
AUSTRIAN LOAN. CONVENTIoN. •
The Earl of LIVERPOOL now moved their 'Lor.cl-.
ships to go into 'a Committee upon the Bill " to carry
into effect-a Convention refitting to Austrian Loans."
Lord HOLLAND, in rising to intercept the motion,
said, that he would now acknOwledge, as he already
had acknowledged, the manner in which, indemnifica-
tion had in some measure been obtained by his Ma-
jesty's Goverment from the Eftweror.ot Austria on act-
count of Loans furnished by this country ; and he was
alit; not unwilling to admit that, although the sum ob-
tained was small, yet irwas, under all the circumstances
of the transaction, more thin he once. expected. There
must, he was satisfied, have been considerable temper
and some management in-getting so much money, and,
epon the whole, the result might :be contidered. as.
worthy-of .the imperial Del ter; but as it could never
be toile,' an act of gellero3lEy, much moderation and
politic caution were shewn in the carrying the measure
into effect. He objected to all tllis ;he disliked the re-
cital of the Ihlls and the wording of it, because of this
strange caution, for it was qn.ite devious from the old
maxim of calling a spade a spade. He therefore stood
up, not certainly to object to the arrangement now con-
cluded, but rather a critic on t'se Bill, and to entreat
their Lordships not to perplex what in itself was ob-1
viously plain. It was possible to conceive, and he could
easily conceive it, that to .persons in Certain lti•gli sta-
tions, in society plain language might not be palatable,
and that a document more studiously couched might be
required, as in the recital of the present Bill, if designed
to be laid before his imperial Majesty's eye!. This was
precisely the error of the Bill; it contained no statement
ot- the sums really due to us, nor of the proportions we
engaged to pay ; and there mast have been displayed
some rate felicity of arrangement in so wording the
present Bill. He was old enough to remember the Re-
searches of Mr. Horne Tooke, who, in his etymological
investigations, had hoped to gather some meaning flints
a stricter ~f words, in themselves of a sandy
and strag;iing nature. He knew not what etymologist
his Imperial Majesty had called to his assistance (here
the Noble Baron -went most eccentrically into the deri-
%ation of particular terms); for the Imperial Debtor
acknowledged by the 8.11 that he would pay something,
though, front the context, it was not -very clear whe-
ther he owed anything. It might be that his Imperial
Majesty had looked to Pagus, a distinct; or he might
have taken his derivative on this octasion from Prae-
want, a bargain; or, perhaps, he had chosen that of
P.tcari, to sifacify ; and, indeed, this latter was mote suit-
able, as thel tilziscatuin was to pacify those brawkis in
the Brititittfarliaineat who %vele calling out -for the re-
pay meat of Loans advanced by this country, and whom
their IMperial' debtor tried. to pacify by paying back
exactly ()lie eight of what he owed. It was likely that
one of the fast Mo;iarchs in Europe did not relish such
iesearches, but pre2eried to studious men persons who.
neither think nor. write, though• they served tor havoc
and slaughter ; but hi hoped, in the present case at any
rate, that when_ his imperial Majesty next v.tsitefl his
Learned University of .Paria, he. u uuld rut-aim—
" Haw charming Li divineThliosophy,"
So carefully and deitrously was the nature of the Loans
concealed by the presea• Bill, that, supposing a Society
of Antiquaries some fifty years hence employed in its
scrutiny, they never could continue to make out what
sums had been loaned by the People of England to
him, or what was due from his Imperial Majesty to
them. It Mentioned, and this was nearly all, that there
existed some annuities which it was covenient to give
up.' Some years had now elapied since these trans-
actions took place, thotigh le (Lord Holland) was
Old enough to renternber the facts.. During the years
1795 and 1797, if hii recollection served him now, two
distinct Loins were obtained from this country by Aus-
' tria: It was then calculated that the monies so raised
would bring the armies cf Austria into the tented field,
so as to compete with the power of France ; and as to
'the securities for the said Loans, when that question'
was casually put, it was answered; that so good was the
seem ity to the public creditor, so certain the repay-
ment, should all else tail, the Empercr of Austria

, -

might, as a dernier resort, be abtolutely sned eVen. in
his own Court. It was not .1 little remarkaLle that one .
of 'these Loans was not paid. to.Attstria till a month
after the peace made by the Emperor at Campo Formie.
The amount of the Loan was 6,003,0031.. guat:ntcel on
annuities for twenty-five years; and the term having
been permitteJ to expire, this country had paid 'at the
rate of twelve millions six hundred thousand orninds.
.Thus had we raddled ourselves with five Millintss of
;motley, and, taken altottether' we were' loaded with
'seventeen millions-and alalf. This calcUlation set'asiae
all'coinpound interest ; and for these adyances: v. e tei-
ieeived two millions and one half. Eveo this boon,
he heard, was 'to .be considered as a " Goo-send ;" but
he disapproved of such language. Came how it might,
•Irowever, it'had cOmelike a shower of gold. It was asked,
..Does 'the Church 'Want anything? Doe's the Crown
wapt-inything ? Here it is, come and scramble' it up."
, Such was the last best "Goo :send ;" it was stated to have
come the Loan only knew how, and the mi chief was
that' it was going the..Leino only knew wheie. Religious
in our appropriation of it, however, part s•':,s df!,tined
for the Established Church ; he had no objection to this •
if the C "arch needed it; but it pus. I d hit philanthsf,ry,
and cooled his zeal, toward her, when he obs6.ved that
one of the richest of the churches did clothing for herself. .
Why, amidst this " God=send'' of benefit, -Why, he
would ask, during-this ioiden s'.7ower; were the people
of England to lie down, and, like Gideon's sheep, find
no benefit flom its refreshing drops'? He knew not
exactly in what manner the- residue 'of 'this o God-
send" was to be disposed of, but •he was' told, in the
meantime, that £30),00() was about to be allotted to
the repairing of palaces, under a commission of .Gen-
tlemen not holding any official situaticns. Now this he
regarded as an unconstitutional measure; it was, he
must add, most odious to take the application of such
an expenditure from the Crown, whose proper Officers
were the best judges of the expenses so to be incurred.
In stating this, he was teaching the servants of the
Crown this great Constitutional lesson—that it was ne-
cessary for the vvelfare of both, that the Guyer 'intent of
the conntry should enjoy the confidence of both [-louses
of Parliament. He did not accuse the Noble Earl op-
posite of intending to do anything injurious to his
country, but he must mention that such measures had
a most mischievous tendency. Under this impression
of mind, he finally move, that the present Bill
be recommitted, for the purpose of altering its preamble.
He did not intend to press their Lordships to a division,
but he hoped .to induce them not to adopt the present
loose and uniegislative.style of the Bill. He was aware
of the trite objection to such a motion—" What, med-
dle with a Money Bill r If, however, when first
.he
came int.) that House, any one had ventured to assert
that the man who meddled with jittlicial•business, or
Money Bills, was acting like a fool, he' would have
been iostantly tailed to order.. What he avikhed ' was,
that their LOrdships should distinctly know where they
were going, and have the Bill reduced to clearer terms.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that their Lord-
ships hid been favoured, quite unexpectedly, with a
most entertaining speech- front his Noble Friend (Hol-
land), hut.still, lie must confess,- he was rather at a loss
to know the objectuf the Noble Lord; for, judging
from the notice he had given, he himself had supposed
that the Noble Lord must have detected some trifling
inaccuracies in the wording of the Bill which he Wished
to point out, without at all committing the principle,of its
Now, he (Lord Liverpool) would defy his Noble-Friend,
for in Iliac_ capacity he reckoned the Noble Lord, to
place. such a construction upon the Bill. What,. be
would distinctly ask, did the Bill actually do
_?• It to.
ferred, for its timodation, to specific Acts of • Parlia-
ment ; and could any Bill. do more, than firm itself,
when such Acts existed, on preceding Acts? Well,
the present Bill referred to certain Acts of Parliament,
which stated that Austria had received Loans from this
country, which Loans had also been guaranteed here,
and that, ulti:nately, such Loans were in a given course
of repayment. But his Noble Friend (Holland) had
taken an opportunity, in stating his _motion, to read
their Lordships (and more particularly his Majesty's
l Ministers in that House) a lecture on the conduct of
the. Austrian Government ; nor should he object to
this line of proceeding, if the Noble Baron had not,
likes:an expert and experienced Counsel, while cola-
meriting on the conduct of .Austria, kept conveniently
back everything in favour of that Poser. He would
deny, then, the Npble Barou's bold assumption that
the Bill itself put such a' mild construction on the
relative positing of Austria with this country; for
every. one hearing the. Noble. Baron's speech, and
nothing else, might have coucluded that, without- any
reason, with no, wars, without ' intervening casualties,
with resources quite untoeched,- and heirspopulation in
prosperity and ;Take— Austria, in the year 17.97, had
contracted a debt, never since 'repaid, and' that, under
torch circumstances, they were now letting off the Em-
peror of Austria on his own te. ms. Whether it were
better to assist Austria by loan or by subsidy was the ques-
tioo• at the commencement. The determination was then
taken in favour of a loan, by a public man at the bead
of the Government, for whoth he had great respect ;
.anil indeed 'he (Lord Liverpool)_ bad no doubt of the
propriety of the decision. With respect to Austria, their
Lordships Should.recollect the real state of things; that
tatter the Treaty of Campo Formic) she had been en-
gaged in four successive wars, which had crippled her
Means, though in.the end the latter war had placed the
Whole of Europe in glorious peace. After each sepa-
rate peace, forced 'Upon her by events, Austria. having
before fought to the very last. site wain:ways ready 'to
rise again. He would appeal to alI Europe, an4artic u-
holy to this country, it much was not owing-to Austria
for her exertions, her fortitude, and her valour? But this
was not all, and therefore he requested., their Lordships
to look a little further. Daring three of those successive
wets large. subsidies had been granted to Austria,• not
one word being said upon the previous loan. . For the
verification -of this statement Ile might appeal.to47oble
Lords opposite, who, when in power, bad offered assub-
•siclv to Austria. • Not that:he blamed those Lords for
acting in that manner, since he would have done the.
vets, same ia their! sittlation ; retires' thetioseives, who
'felt the shoe pinch so hirrd, dill not wince, but cor.sentcd
to the Attailita debt. Hi thought, npou. these rounds,

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