Star.
London, England, 1830-03-31 00:00:00

upon the mind ;—the increased demand for the precious metals
which the increased population of Europe and the rapidly growing
population of the United States of Ameviea required. Besides
these, there was another minor consideration connected with the
question, but not to any matetial extent, when it should come be.
fore the house on a future occasion ; viz. the circumstance that a
new supply of one of the precious metals had been recently dia.
covered in the Russian dominions ; he alluded to the gold mine in
Ural Mountains. The object which the noble marquis said, in
conclusion, he had in view, was to obtain information as to the
general supply of these precious metals. He then moved an ad-
dress to his majesty for a return of the examination which took
place before the Privy Council in 1828, at which certain bank di-
rectors were examined ; also that his majesty will be graciously
Rimed to direct that his consuls residing in the different States of
:south America transmit such information as they can collect with
respect to obtaining and exporting precious metals, and the compa-
rative proportion of gold and silver exported in each years also
that the British Consul at Petersburgh be directed to transmit any
information he may obtain with regard to the quantity of gold
obtained in the Russian dominions in the course of the last ten years.
The Duke of WELLINGTON suggested that, so far as the
motion related to the proceedings before the privy council, probably
extracts on that particular subject would be sufficient.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then limited that part of the
motion to extracts.

Mr. FYLER presented a petition from the Mayor, merchants, 1
bankers, and other inhabitants, to the numberof 650 persons, of the
city of Coventry, praying for a revision of the criminal laws, and
for doing away with the punishment of death for dances against
property.—Ordered to be printed.
Thesame hon. MEMBER presented a petition from the licensed
victuallers of Coventry (200 in number), complaining of the great
injury they will sustain in their property by the trade being thrown
open in beer—Referred to the committee.
Lord FRANCIS OSBORNE presented a petition from Wis.
beach (we believe) complaining of distress, and praying a reform in
parliament —Ordered to be printed.
Mr. LEGGE presented apetition from Banbury, praying a nevi.
shin of the criminal laws.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. 51UNDY presented a similar petition from the inhabitants
of Derby.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. MALCOLM presented a petition from the brewers and malt.
stets of Boston, in Lincolnshire, against throwing open the trade in
heer.—Ordered to be printed.
General GASCOYNE presented nine petitions from as many
iVesleyan Methodist congregations at Liverpool, against the prac-
tice of burning Hindoo widows.—Referred to the committee on East
India affairs.
Mr. ARCHIBALD CAMPBELL presented a similar petition
from Gorwood, in Scotland.
Mr. LITTLETON, in presenting a petition from the inhabitants
of Sibthorpe, in the county of Durham, against the truck system,
wished to know from the hon. member for Aberdeen whether he
would object to defer the discussion on the bill which he (Mr. Lit..
tleton) intended to introduce on Thursday night, upon the subject,
until its second reading, as in the interval the bill would be printed,
and members have the opportunity of considering its contents during
the holidays.
Mr. HUME said, that although he intended to oppose the bill in
its very first stage, as the proposed delay might afford time for fur.
ther information, he should not object to the discussion on the bill
being deferred to the second reading.
After a few words from Mr. REMALY, Mr. BEWETT, and Mr.
Hume, the petition was brought up and ordered to be printed.
Mr. HUME presented a petition from the inhabitants of North
Dibley, in Gloucestershire, complaining of general distress and the
increase in the poor.rates.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. BENETT presented a petition from the Licensed Victuallers
of Trowbridge, relative to beer duties.—Referied to the Committee
on Beer Licenses.

The Earl of ABERDEEN said there could be no objection to
furnish the information which the noble marquis sought : indeed,
hilmajesty's ministers had sent instructions to the Consuls in South
America not dissimilar to what the noble marquis had now sug-
gested. Information of the nature desired might have been at the
present moment afforded, but, in order to render the returns as per-
fect as possible, it would be better to delay the presentation of the
information in the possession of ministers until that deficiency were
supplied. It might afford some satisfaction, however, to the noble
marquis to know that of late a considerable increase in the export
of precious metals had taken place.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought that the information asked
for by the noble marquis, did not go fax enough ; the returns would
not furnish him with so clear a detail as was desirable. The noble
lord suggested that the exports of the precious metals to India
should be given, if not to other countries in Europe.

The Marquis of LANSDOWNE had no objection to adopt the
suggestion with regard to India; but doubted whether any clearer
information could be obtained by specifying the countries of Europe
to which the precious metals were exported, inasmuch as there was
a constant flux and reflux between them.—(Hear.)
The Earl of MALMESBURY was anxious to take that oppor.
tunity of repeating what he had said afew sessions ago with respect
to consular establishments. His noble friend, who had introduced
the motion to the house, anticipated deriving some valuable infor-
mation from the statements of our consuls. They ought to furnish
very valuable information, for they cost the country a very large
sum of money annually (Hear.) The amount of the expense in.
curred in 1828, on this head, was no less than 97,0001. When he
had the honour of holding an office under government, which his
noble friend held, the mode adopted was to pay the consuls by fees.
There was, however, a small %glary attached to each in addition.
They carried on the correspondence of their department, and trans.
acted the usual business of consuls. It happened that some abuses
had crept in with respect to the fees, and it war considered better to
have the fees abolished, paying the expenses of the consuls out of
the public purse. When so much had been asserted about economy,
he thought that a considerable saving might be effected in the con-
sular establishments. A few years ago the expense was 70,0001.
and now it was upwards of 90,0001. If there was an establishment
of a custom-house to be kept up, connected with the consular esta-
blishment, then there would be something to defray these expenses;
but if the object were to benefit the mercantile interest, that interest
ought to bear part of the expense. He begged to ask why the public
purse should be thus burdened ? It was too much to saddle the
country with so large on increascbecause abuses in fees had obtained
an ascendancy. Three years back he mentioned the expense to
which the country bad been, in his opinion, unnecessarily
put with regard to the consular establishment, and he had
hoped that his Majesty's ministers would have taken the
subject into consideration with a view of diminishing the
expenditure. The consuls ought to be well acquainted with met.
cantile transactions; indeed they were generally so. Now he was
on his legs, he thought he might be permitted to advert to the qua.
lineations of the South American consuls, as compared with those in
the European states. In South America, the consul had chiefly the
diplomatic relations to manage, besides the commercial ; but diplo-
nosey was of a very different character in that country to what was
pursued in the courts of Europe; the qualifications, consequently,
were of a different nature to fit a person for each. It would hardly
be insisted, he imagined, that in a diplomatic relation it was the
same at Lima, Mexico, and other places in South America, as it
was at Vienna, Petersburgh, or other European courts ? The noble
earl said he certainly should prefer the diplomatic relations to be
carried on through the medium of the consuls of the South Ameri-
can states. He thought it really worth the consideration of govern-
ment whether the system of fees could not be conveniently returned
, to; and he would also recommend that, in such a case, the mercan-
tile interest should have some degree of influence in the appointment
of consuls.

Mr. F. LEWIS brought in a bill for amending and consolidating
the laws regulating the pay of the royal navy.
The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second
time on Monday, Nth of April, and to be printed.
Mr. F. LEWIS was about to move for returns of the expenses of
conveying money for the payment of the navy, to Chatham, Ports-
mouth, and Plymouth Dock-yards, when
Mr. HUME suggested an alteration in the terms of the motion,
and it was withdrawn for the present.
Mr. F. LEWIS moved for a return of the amount of duty re.
ceived on playing cards for the last three years.—Ordered.
Mr. F. LEWIS moved for a return of the quantity of British
wool exported from the United Kingdom ; and also of the imports
of foreign wool:during the last six year&—Ordered.
Mr. BARING moved for a return of the quantity of merchan-
dise exported, on which drawbacks had been allowed ; and also the
quantity of sugar on which drawbacks had also been allowed.—
Ordered.

Mr. C. GRANT wished to know on what day it was the inten.
tendon of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to propose the annual
sugar duties; for, as it was his (Mr. C. Grant's) intention to move
for a reduction of such duties, he thought that would be the most
convenient time to propose it, in older to bring the question fully
and fairly before the house.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER promised to name
an early day after the Easter holydays.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a petition from the inhabitants
of certain districts in Dublin, for a repeal of the duty on coals.—
Ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. HUME postponed his motion respecting the colony of Sierra
Leone, to Thursday, the 27th of May.
On the motion of Sir C. WETHERELL, a return of the un-
heard causes at present before the Lord Chancellor was ordered to be
laid before the house.
Sir E. 'MATCH BULL presented a petition from the owners
and occupiers of land in the parish of Woodhunt, in the county of
Rent, complaining of agricultural distress, which was ordered to
lie on the table.

CROWN LANDS.

Mr. D. W. HARVEY rose, In consequence of his pledge to
the house at the close of the last session, to bring under the
-consideration of parliament that branch of the public revenue
commonly called crown lands. lie would not waste the time of
the house in regretting that the subject bad not devolved
upon some honourable member more capable than he was of
surrounding it with the beauties of classical research, and all
the charms of language ; but as one of those who had neither
great family nor party connection to support him, he would endea-
vour to bring under their notice a large branch of the public revenue,
which had hitherto been much neglected and misapplied. What.
ever disadvantage the subject might labour under, it had at least
the advantage of novelty, for, with one solitary ex ption, in 170,
' it had never been brought distinctly under the consideration of the
house. He was the more emboldened to enter on the task which he
had proposed for himself, as he thought he could trace in his ma•
jesty's government a glimmering anxiety, if not to accelerate, at least,
not to oppose improvement. He was also encouraged by the speech
of the hon. member for Liverpool, in which the crown lands were
pointed out as one of the sources from which financial relief might
be obtained. To avoid the prevailing taste for making long speeches,
and to prevent the noble lord (Lowther) at the head of the depart-
ment from complaining of the itinerant nature of his suggestion,
he would state at once that his object was to move for the appoint-
ment of a committee to inquire into the state and management of
the crown lands. It was not too much to say that the greatest ig.
manor prevailed, even in that house, with respect to tho question
he was now about to bring under their consideration. That igno.
ranee hecouldonly ascribe to the stupid awe with which vulgar minds
were impressed by the epithet of crown lands. The fact, however,
was, that there was no branch of the public revenue so available at
the present moment to the public exigencies as this might be made.
It was possible that be might address in that house some one who
was the enviable possessor of property so situated, and willed to
him by some testator as little aware of its real value. Would such
a one allow him to state the extent and the value of a property he
had so acquired ? Proceeding from imagination to reality, would
the house permit him to state that they were in the situation of
trustees for the people of England for that great property, which,
with just management, they might render available to the future
exigencies of the state. (Hear, hear.) No one could be ignorant
that there was once a paled when ever/ monarch derived
his income exclusively from the soil. (Hear. When the ulegi.
timate child of the Norman shore expel ed the legitimate
Harold, his revenues amounted to 400,0001. a year. Out of that
sum he provided for the protection and government of this country.
During the 12th, 18th, and 14th centuries the revenue possessed by
William dwindled down through successive monarchs, until they
were obliged to have recourse to acts of resumption for the restora-
tion of the mown property. In the reign of Henry V. they bad
dwindled down to 57,0001. and in that of Henry VI. so low es
5,0511. Various acts of resumption were passed in the reign of
Henry VII. and in that of Henry VIII. the great pluralist both In
churches and in wives, an appropriation of ecclesiastical property was
made to secular purposes to the amount of 237,0001. a year, bring
(accord ift to the estimate of Sir John Sinclair, who was no exagge-
rator in thme matters) equal to 6,000,0001. of our present currency.
What he had stated of the value of the crown lands at different
times was drawn from state documents, accessible to every body..--
This be mentioned to show that his statements were not embel-
lished b language, or ornamented by invention. In the time of
these revenues had increased from 86,0001. which they
were in Mary's time, to 132,0001. and all her revenues for the pur-
sut of offence and defence did not exceed half a million. The
Napoleon of the sixteenth century alienated away 666 holdings,
which brought him 2,200,0001. After the restoration, Charles only
resumed the lands of those who were most active partisans of the re-
bellion ; and it appeared by the returns to parliament by the camels-
sioners, that the amount of crown domains not resumed was 217,0001.
year. The whole of the crown revenues were compulsorily conceded
by William, to his followers or Parliament, for long terms, at short
rents. This was the time when the greatest assaults were made
upon crown property. It was also the first time that this property
was applied to Parliamentary purposes. At the accession of Quest
Anne a civil list of 600,0001. was settled for the first time upon
HOUSE OF COMMONS--TUESDA-T. . her, as indemnification for the loss of the crown property, them
lien by the public. The terms of the preamble were, to defray
Mr. LITTLETON presented a petition from the 4111ellemi "art of the expenau of the Government, and lessen the burdens of
victuallers in the district of the Staffordshire Potteties at•p)rrt the the people by applying the proceeds of the crown revenue to those
opening of the Beer Trade.—Referred to the Committee an Beer purposes. This was the mien of the civil list. Subsequently a
Licences. bill was brought into this house by Mr. Shipper, Mr. Strangeways,
The Hon. Member also presented another from the same place, and Mr. Lockhart, for the purpose of reclaiming those lands which
against the renewal of the East India Company's Charter.—Re- had been disposed of by the parkas of the revolution. That bill
fared to the Committee. weaned the third time the la March, 1711, but it met with its
Also a petition from the inhabitants of West Bromwich, in Stat. grave in a place where many measures of utility had before and
fordshire, praying a revision of the criminal laws, and against the since been entombed. The failure of this bill caused a stagnation
punishment of death for forgery.—Ordered to be printed. in the endeavours to reclaim the crown lands till 1760, mid It sp.
Mr.HASTINGS presented a petition front the licensed victuallers peered that the memo of Queen Anne, which was worth 1,000400
of the town of Leicester, against throwing open the trade in beer.— was reduced to M. 16s. 74. Thus were the crown lands par
Referred to the Committee on Beer Lionises. chased by .the people frittered away. No alteration took OM
Mr. ADAM HAY preluded a petition from the Prevost and at the accemitet of his late Majesty, except ea arrangement that 7-
Inhabitants of tbe Royal Burgh of' Linilthlnrw, against Obi re" Bths were to be paid in goes and (Bth in rent. After that such
newel of the East India Company's Chartet.—Refered se the was the corruption of those @coconut in the eliepered of this pro.
Committee. petty, that they let the land first fir nothing, and then sold the pew
Mr. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from the omens perty epee a calculation of that tom. He should give pone to.
played in the lead mines of Liddradale, In the West Riding of own In rod of what be was sayingt thus to the %tufty feud.
Yoekshire, complaining of distran..--thdered to be printed. ly there were sold all that and thus the whole of Piscadlllyfrom

The Earl of ABERDEEN begged to assure the noble earl who
had just addressed their lordships that the subject bad been under
his (the Earl of Aberdeen's) consideration. With respect to the
change which had taken place in 1825, as regarded the establishment
of consuls on the present tooting, be believed that it had been agtved
to, by the unanimous wish of the other house of parliament. Since
that period, however, there had been great reason to doubt whe-
ther the change had produced all the good effects anticipated—
(Hear.) He had no hesitation in saying, fram the information
which he had obtained on the subject, that he was very much in-
clined to come to the same conclusion that the noble cart bad come
to—via. that the original system of fees, as a remuneration for the
duties of consuls, who might be persons engaged in commerce,
where the situation did not lie open to objections against their
being engaged in commercial transactions, would be, perhaps, the
best footing on which to place them. He would go further, to say
that he hoped to bring forward some regulations which he
trusted would reduce the present expenses of Consuls, and yet have
the duties fully performed. In South America the whole diplo.
matic duties had been carried on by means of Consuls. When.
ever there was not a minister appointed there the Consul. General
officiated ; but he (the Earl of Aberdeen) had thought it to be his
duty, where a minister was resident, that the office of Consul-Ge-
neral should cease.
The Earl of MALAIESBURY agreed in toto with what had
bean just asserted by the noble earl.
Viscount ODDER ICH thought that some modification might
be adopted between the present late system with respect to the re.
muneration given to Consuls. If the whole of the salary were to
be taken off, and fees substituted, it would tend to injure many
individuals. As to the other point, allowing Vice. Consuls to
carry on trade, be had considerable doubts of the policy of that
mode, and he was persuaded great caution was necessary in granting
such permission.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that, the question having arisen
quite inddentally--(har, hear,) it would not be expected of
him to enter into all the details on the subject. The noble
viscount was of course aware that it was necessary for a Consul
to obtain permission from government before he could carry on
trade.

Viscount CiODERICH signified assent.
Lord HOLLAND remarked that the question of Consuls hay.
ing come before the house, be was desirous of asking the noble earl
opposite (the earl of Aberdeen) whether the Consulsappointed to
Northern Africa received their appointments front the Colonial
or Foreign Department ?
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that the nomination or the
Consuls for Egypt was in the Foreign Office, but for the Barbary
States in the Colonial Office.
Lord HOLLAND was at a loss to know why the appointment
to the different consulships in the state to which he had alluded
should in one case be in the Colonial and in the other the Foreign

Degrent,
etmEarl of DIAL3I REBURY was desirous of explaining. H.
did not say that he wished to see the whole of the salary to Consuls
abolishe&—but that a small salary should be attached to each, and
the fees restored.
The question was then put by the LORD CHANCELLOR and
carried.
The bills brought up from the Commons this evening baring
been read a first time, their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter
past Six.