Star.
London, England, 1805-05-22 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, MAY sr.

The LORD CHANCELLOR gave judgment as to certain
points in the important mute of " Blanc v. the Earl of Wills."
His Lordlidp's opinion was, that the Earl of Caddis was entitled
to a coonderable part of the property in Wrote, and that certain
i•fiations mould be fent bock to the Court of Saw. His Lord-
fisted, that he would proceed Rather in giving jadgment en
F y next.
The Earl of SUFFOLK complained that no return had been
made to his Motion for an Account of Ms drawn from the Weft
Indies.
Lprd HAWKESBURY raid, that the immenfe quantity of
thofe Bills rendered it impollihie for any return, fuch as the No-
ble Earl demanded, being made. He would be happy to &Kurd
his Lordfhip any Information he could reafonably require. It was
(cried in a wort convarfation, that the return could be limited to
all Bills drawn for fans above ace&
Kt. JUSTICII ;CM

The Order of the Day being moved for their
Lordfhips to go into a Committee upon the motions
alledged in charge againft the above judicial cha•
railer ;

Lord HAWKESBURYobferved,that he thought
the malt proper and regular cootie Of proceeding in
the cafe, as it had Rood before their Lordlhips, was,
that an Addrefs fhould be moved to his Majefty on
the occafion, embodying in loch motion or addi•efs,
a flatement of the farts upon which the charge,
giving rife to the Addrefs, was founded ; and then
to refer the confederation of the whole to a Commit-
tee of the Houfe, for the purple of affording a re-
gular opportunity of proving at the Bar, the allega-
tions Rated in the Addrefs. This line 'of proceeding
would, he thought, beg fquare with the Aft of Set.
tlement ; and, upon this ground, he fhould beg leave
to fuggeft to his Noble Friend the propriety of mov-
ing fuck an Addrefs, in which fhould be embodied.
for the purpofe he had mentioned, the important
falls of the cafe.

The Marquis of ABERCORN expretred his wil-
lingnefs to accede to the propofition of the Noble Se-
eretary,did fuch appear to be the fenfe of their Lord-
Ships, as the moft proper ; for, it was his with never
again to be reproached with urging the adoption of
any particular mode of proceeding, in preference to
another. Under this impreffion, he fhould therefore
readily undertake to move an Addrefs as fuggefted ;
but he Mould content himfelf with fimply moving
the Addrefs, and not offer a word in the way of
comment upon it. From the moment, he judged it
important to come forward as he had done, in a cafe
involving the rights and privileges of his fellow ids-
jeas, and faw the matter placed in a train of invetii-
gation. He had carefully, as their Lordthips mutt
recoiled!, abftained from any obfervations in that
Houfe, which might go to affed the individual, or
bias their Lordfhips judgment on the cafe. On thefe
grounds, he repeated, he thould contea himfelf with
fimpiy moving the Addrefs.
On the motion of Lord AUCKLAND, the order
for their Lordthips going into the Commiuee was
difcharged. • ••
Some private bufinefs was then difpofed of, and
Come witnctfes were Am% with rerPea to their
intended evidence at the Bar of the Houle, touching
the charges againti Mr. Jußice Fox.
A propofition on this cafe is, we nnderftood, fixed
for,tamorrow, and on which the Linde are fun'.
monc4.—Adjourned.

HOUSE. OF CONTMONS.
The Lltnerick Road Bill was reported, and ordc red to Se eu
grcffed.
Mr. Seleant BEST gave notice, that on Monday mat he wou:.:
more for leave to bring in a Bill to anteod the Act of the pth o:
Geo.ll. refpeding the privileges of P...:etnixrs of PA 014014:tit in re-
lation to their being exempted front Arreft, for Debt.
On the Order of the Day for the third reading of the Bi:I for the
better fupply of the Market Towns in Ireland with Water,
Sir GEORGE HILL oppored it, on the ground that it would
have a partial operation, and fubjedt many perform to rates who
did noc Rand in need of Rich accommodation. He mould make

no objedtion if the heavy expence was to fall exclufivdy on thole
who wined for it ; but confidering that it would be barthenfome
as well as unneceffary in general, he moved that the Bill be read a
third time this day three months.
Mr. Barnard and Sir William Borrows (pole in favour of the
Bill; and Mr. French, Sir Win. Elford, acd Mr. hl'Naghtot
againft It.
Mr. FOSTER confidered the tneafure to be of ronCdc-rable in
pomace, and fuck as Ihould not be heftily adoptcd, al a genet.'
act, meant only for local advantage, might ultimately tend to the
embarraffment of the whole country. He fhould therefore lc
commend it to the Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Hill) to sv::hdraw
motion, for the purpofe of poftponing the third read:ng to th!.
fortnight, when Gentlemen might be better prcpa-ei to bode:-
Stand it.

To this Mr. M'Naghton objeded—.that in the courfe of a fort.
night many Iriih Members would have occafion to return home:
and after foam dcfultory converfation, the Hour,: div;ded us
Mr. Fuller's amendment.—For it 29—Againft it t.7—Majority 2.
The Bill was then ordered to be read a third time on this day-
fortnight. _ _ _

The Irifh Cdterna and Ezeire Bill was read a teeond time, and
ordered to be committed to-morrow.

Mr. Becby, from the Etehequer, prefaited an Account of the
indication of the grants for Naval Serdees, from the year illot to
the lateft period.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. MATTHEWS moved the fccond reading of the fler•rd
Turnpike Bin, which. after a few obfervations from Sir 0. bITN.-
TON and Mr. HART, was agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be
committed to morrow.

IRISH SECRET SERVICE 'MONEY.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT rote, in purfuance of his
motion, to draw the attention of the Finufe to a full-
jai which appeared to him of conliderable impor-
twice. By referring to the proceedings on the AEI
of the sth of his prefent Majefly, the Honfe would
perceive, that it had frequently been propofed to Par-
liament, and as often rejected—nor had it patted into
a law, till the penfion lift of Ireland was augmented
to nearly double its former amount. The whole of
the fecret fervice money for that country, up to the
time alluded to, had only amounted to r zo,oool.
which, however, was thought an extravagant rum—
and the Parliament enaaed, that, in future, the fe-
cret fervice money of Ireland fhould not exceed the
annual firm of pool. exelnfitrely of what may be ex-
pended in the detation and prevention of treafonable
confpiracies and rebellion. For the lag (*twice, lie
other account was required, than the oath of the Chief
Secretary of State ; but the appropriation of the for-
mer was made fubjed to the reeifion of .be
The Alt alfo provided, that any turn of money for
private fervice, for three years fucceiflvely, (hould be
deemed a penfion ; but no fuch previfion was made.
in relation to grants made by the Lords Lieutenant.
He did not deny, that the object of his Motion ink
to make difclofures, which, to Come perfons, might
not be altogether agreeable. It had not been am•
coiled, that a raft furls of money was paid, for the
purpofe of bringing about the Union, which was held
out as a meafure calculated to produce the molt impor-
tant and beneficial confequences, which, be was lorry
to fay,' were not very likely to refult from it. Ever
fume the year 1793, it was notorious that no account
was given to Parliament of the difburfements for fe-
cret fervices; and he regretted the abfence de No-
ble Lord (Citakreagh), whole allifiance he hal a
right to expect, upon the prefent occafion. (Some
ktuziter war here eariteti, as Lord Cellereegb, thetegh," of
mile, 'infests by the Heteetsrak Baronet, coat that lea*
in hit Park He hoped, he Paid, that the Houle
would 'nciw pay more attention than formerly to the
difborfements of Ireland, as the Englifh Members
were aware, that our country bad to defray two-
feventeenths of the 'pence'. The expences of route,
though not all, of the proportions in Ireland, were
now before the Honk amounting to the cant of
ro,oool. and his motion would be fora Secret Com-
mittee to enquire into that expenditure. On lookieg
into the Journals, he found a precedent fir his ism-
tion, in the reign'of William and Mary, November
1688, when a motion Was paired, calling for an ao•
count of the money paid for ferret ferviees to Mem-
bers of Parliament, and was prefented by Mr. ilecreta-
ry Harley, in the December following. As he did not
expect to have 'the right of the public,' to knew what
they aettally did pay, difputed, he moved, a that a
Secret ComMittee, of 13 Members, exclufively offish
Members as held any public offices at the will of the
Crown, be appointed to enquireinto the difburfements
of fecret fervice money in Ireland,from the year um,
to the end of 1804, inclufive, excepting Inch furns as
might have been paid for' the deteaion of any confpi-
racies, and diftinguilbing their refpeeive amounts,
and the name; and fervices of the perfons to whom
they were paid."
• • Mr. VANSIrI'ART Paid, that he Should perhaps
have no great' objeetion to the motion, if it had been
properly worded—though he confidered it altogether
unneceli'ary, as the Ale of Parliament pofitively
inked the fecret fervice money Of Ireland to wool.
annually. Is was determined by the Finance CcM-
mittee, iii 02, that the government of this country
could not go on without the expenditure of fecret fer-
vice money ; after which,. Mr. Burke's Bill limited
that difburfement w to,oool. for England, and soool.
for Ireland. This lalk country, it mug be remem-
bered, was, for Some years pall, in a very peculiar
Situation, and the accounts on the table would thew,
that confiderable (urns of money had been paid for
information to various perfons whofe names could not
be difclofed without imminent hazard of their
murdered. If in the courfe of thefe proceeding!: any
improper expenditure had been pointed out, it might
fairly fnrnilh a proper ground of enquiry ; but, at
prefent, he had heart of nothing which the Houle
could be called onto proceed upon. The account r f
the money laid out in the purchafe of boroughs,
confequence of the Union, could be regularly obtained
at any time ; and as to the abufe of pen (ion s, and forne
other points animadverted on by the H Baronet,
he conflered them totally unconneeted with the fub-
jea. The accounts required by the AO nt King
Liam, which had been referred to, were already before
them, as alfo the account of the amount of
fecret fervice money, which, he believed, could rot
be thought unreafonable, during a period in whict
there ex ifled two rebellions, or, at lead, infirree4ions.
The whrale expence be underflood to be about so,oocl.
a great part of which was paid for foreign corretpon•
dente, to detea the comedies between domettic and
foreign enemies.

I

i

Mr. D. BROWNE defended the needful. of eon-
Aderable fecret fervice money in Ireland, for many
years pall, as it was known that the rebellious con-
(piracy began. in the year tjgo, though it did not
break out for three years afterwards. He bellowed
great praife on
.the zeal and aftivity of Mr. Edward
Cooke, at t:.at time Secretary in Ireland, to which
he, in a great meafure, attributed the deteftion and
defeat of the confpiracy.
The queilion was then loudly called for, and
firaegers ordered to withdraw—when
Sir JOHN NEWPORT, in reply, contended that
the public had a right to be accounted with for
whatever fums were paid out of the public treafury.
He did not demand any account of the fums paid
for the deteftion .or difcom6ture of treakin, which
were left to the oath of the Irifh Secretary as provid-
ed by law ; but any other money timid be fubjeft
to the revition of the Honk. If the Houk rejefted
this enquiry, particularly the rums lavithed for the
put pofes of the Union, they would anfwer the public
call in the fame manner that Sir William D'Averiant
related of Lord Stair, who, when called upon for an
account of the fums paid in quieting the Highlands
of Scotland, replied, " The money is all fpent, the
Highlands are quiet, and that is the belt account that
I can give you." In the fame manner, the Noble Lord
oppolite him may fay, " The money is gone, the
accomplifited, and you may now be fatisfied,
for that is the belt account that I can give you."
The Hoefe then divided on the motion, for it 67
—againit it 93—MAjotity z 6.
On the third reading of the Bill, appointing Com-
ibillioners of Military Enquiry;
Admiral BERKELEY ailed whether the Barrack
Department was included? To which
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHECZyR re-
plied, that it was exprefsly mentioned.
The bil! was then read a third time and paid,
sis was alfo the Bill for continuing the powers of the
Commiflioners of Naval Inquiry, to which the Chan
cellor of the Exchequer added a claufe, the purport
of which was--that no witnefs before the (aid Com-
mittee fhtuld be compelled to anfwer any quelions
which night tend to criminate himfelf ; but fhould
be obliged to anfwer all queftions which might cri-
minate others.