Star.
London, England, 1801-03-24 00:00:00

IRISH MARTIAL LAW SILL.

On the third reading of the Ira Martial Law
Bill,
The Earl of RADNOR, noticing the precipitancy
with which a Bill of this great importance was hur-
ried on, moved the. reading of the Banding orders
on the regulation of the refpeaive Rages of Bilk,
and difapproved of the proceeding of this as a cau-
tiop for the future.
Earl Mot RA,Earl TITZWILLIAM, and Lord Hot.-
LAND, expreffed their difapprobation, and Paid, they
were not fufficicntly apprized of fuch a proceeding ;
fo little, that they did not expea itfrom what was
laid on the fubjea laft Friday night : in reply to
which, the LORD CHANCELLOR urged, that the ne-
cerfity of the cafe juftified the proceeding, and laid,
that the Bill was open on the third reading to all ob-
jeaions their Lordthips were difpofed to make to it.
Lord Firzwi attars declared his difapprobation
of the Bill. Ile laid, " was a Bill which deprived
filch a large portion of his Majefty's fubjeas of the
bleffings of the Britfth Conßitution,. to be pallid
through that Hottfe, without one document being
produced to their Lordthips to thew the necellity
of the meafure ?" He Paid, in the prefent Rite of
Ireland, when the Judges were enabled to go their
regular circuits without moleftation, fuch a Bill
could not be necellary. In this country, if a per-
fon was accufed of High Treafon, he had Counfel
affigned him, and a lift of the witneffes againft him,
and the jurors by whom he was to be tried. He
confidered, he raid, the greateft misfortune th::t
could befall any man was to be deprived of a trial
by his Peers.
The Earl of WEST?4ORELAND raid, that fuch was
the Rate of Ireland, that Noble Lords (hould ra.
ther look for a communication from the Crown,
why fuch a law thould not continue, than look for
rearms why it (honk! be revi%
Earl of CAERNARVON took up very warmly this
laft expreffion of the Noble Earl. He afked if an
AR, the ffighteft word of which thLald make a
freeman thudder, was to be continued as long as
it fliould be the plea tiro of the Crown
The Earl of WESTKoRLLAND explained.
Earl Moine Rated what had pal Ted on Friday
night. He afterwards faid he coincided entirely in
opinion which his Noble Friend (Lord Fitzwil-
liam) that fume information Should have been pre-
vioutly laid before the Houle.
Lord CLARE raid, before he (hould trouble the
Moore with any remarks on the necernty of the
eneafure aow under its confideration, he fhould
move, that the report of the confeflions of the
Rebels examined before the Committee of the frith
'Houk of Peers, which was laid before his Majelly,
and which his Majefty had been gracioully pleafed
to lay before their Lnrd(hips, Should he read.
The Report was accordnigly read, which occu-
pied the Houle a confiderahle time; after which,
Lord CLARF laid, with fuch documents as there
will the Noble Earl (Fitzwilliam), fay the Houfe
is without any proofs to proceed upon ? He then
allured the Houle (and no man could be prefumed
to know the Rate of Ireland better than liimfelf),
that this was the meafure that did, and this was
the meafiire alone that could rave Ireland, and
prevent its difunion from Great 13ritain. The
Noble Lord then entered into a detail of the Rebel-
lion ; he told the Noble Earl (Fitzwilliam) that
at the very time that flattering loyal addreffes
were preenting to himfelf, when-his Lordfhip was
the chief Co'rernor of that difiraaed country, the
Very peraints who prefented them were many of
them concerting the reparation of the two king-
doms, and one of the perfons was ..:Wally one of
the frith Dire Cory. He could tell their Lordlhips
loch tales la would make them fliudder. This
Bill, he Paid, originated in confequence of Theo-
bold Wolfe Tone having being taken in arms on
board a French frigate, which formed a part of the
expedition that failed from Bieß for the invafion
of Ireland. Tone, lie faid, bad beer( tried by
Martial Law, was loom! guilty, and ordered for
execution ; but (nine friroid of his applied to the
Court of King's Deitch for a writ of Habeh Cor-
pus, a Military Tribunal not having power to try
a criminal whilfl that Court was titting—the
granted a Habeas Corpus, by which mean-.
Tore obtained a fi.fpenfinn tithe lenience of the
Court Marcia!, and found means to cut his throat
of pritun before could be broughta time';
•

'to trial. But he begged fo affure Noble Lords,
there were many cauleswhich called loudly for the
palling of this Bill.—Jurors could not be fOund
hardy enough to do juftice to their confcience
and to their country; they preferred perjuring
themfelves; to the almoft certainty of allltflination.
It; as the Noble Lord had oblerved, lifts of ju-
; rors and witneffes were to be given to the Rebels
of Ireland, as in cafes of High Treafon in this
country, fourteen days pretiLts to trial, nine-
tenths of both witnciles and jurors would not be
in exiftence on the day of trial. Helamented much
as any Nobic Lord in that Hours: ; nay he had
cattle, he laid, to lament more than a great ma-
jority of their Lordthips, the necefilty of the pre-
fent meaftire, becaufe he could Oct go to his own
houle in falcty : lie could not walk round his cwn
farm, or go to his bed, without fire-arms to pro-
tekt hinifall and his family—nor did he know at
what rumens, if he was not thus guarded, he
might fee hisile and children butchered before
his eyes, and he himfelf only fpared to witnefs
the bloody fcene. When he left his houfe—when
he moved from one fpot to another—his fervant
reached him his fire-arms as regularly as he reach-
'ed him his hat. if Noble Lords judged of Ire-
land by any fort of comparifon with this country,
he was Lorry to fay the comparifon could not in
any relpeel hold good. The more he law of the
happinefs of thole who lived under the Britith
Conditution, the more he bewailed the fate
of his unhappy country. If in Ireland, as in Eng-
land, the military were to quit a.town on the ap-
proach of the Judges, the laws could not be execut-
ed. A Noble Lord had ailed, whether the Judges
had not regularly gone the circuits for two years
and a half? lie could anfwer, that in general
they had done fo, but they had always been pro-
teded by a ftrong efcort, and that two Learned
Judges goinsg to hold the alli zes in a diftant coun-
ty, had been attacked by the rebels not many
miles from the capital. They were not murdered
to be Pure, but they owed their fafety merely to
the rebels having negle.9ed their uftial precaution.
Their fervants not being bribed, and the poll-boys
turning quick about, they efcaped from the fnare
Of the laft journey of the Attorney General, it
had been laid truly, though ludicroutly, that Mr.
Attorney all the time looked pale, that the jurors
perjured themfelves, that the affatlins efcaped, and
that the witnelles were affaffinated. They can try for
common robberies and mifdemeanours, but they
dare not try rebels; and, if they dare do fo, they
could not, as he had before Rated, get Jurymen to
do juftice. He allured the Houk, that the fame or-
gan; zedfyftem ofrebellion Rill exilic:l, that was plan-
ned in the year 1792, and it wanted but an opportu-
nity again to burst forth with frefh vigour. Until
within the hall eighteen months the county in which
he refided (Limerick) was perfectly tranquil, but
fuch was the fyllem of organization with which
things were carried on,that all of a fudden the whole
county was ina Rate of rebellion. The firft altofrio-
lence was committed under his own roof. One of
his fervants was put to death with circumftances
the molt !hocking to humanity, merely becaufe he
was an Englifhman ; and to thew the extreme bar.
barifm at which the Iri(h people had arrived, the
principal affallin was a man who had been his fer-
vant and his father's fervant for upwards of thirty
years, and had been uniformly treated by both of
them with the greatell poffible kindnefs: The
wretch had ftolen arms from his houfe, and diliri-
buted them among the rebels. When he was led
to execution, he confefred to the Prieß who at-
tended him, a There were five and twenty Gentle-
men in the county denounced (as they termed it)
for afraflination, amongll whom I was onc—l was
to be one of the laft in this tragedy, but fortunately
the plot was difcovered." He (Lord Clare) was
the only perfon who gave employment and bread
to the poor in that neighbotirhood, and without
him they mutt be reduced to the greateft wretched-
nefs. He mentioned this to Ibew that they were
not animated by any thing refembling a rational
motive, but were (purred on merely by a third
for blood.

His Lordfhip, in (peaking of Marquis Cornwallis,
obferved, that he poll-eared an undaunted cou-
rage, with the mildeft—the fofteft nature." The
noble Marquis,he laid," never would refort to ads
of violence but under the molt preffing necefllty—
he never permitted an individual to Infer without
the molt minute inveftigation of his cafe—he fpends
not lefs than four hours every day in examining the
minutes of Courts Martial. Soon. after the' noble
Marquis took upon himfelf the chief command in
Ireland, he releafed many rebels from prifons, and
many others lie granted a pardon to, on giving up
their arms. Some of thofe were afterwards again
taken up, and fent abroad ; but there are many of
them with the fame rebellious fpirit kill in the coun-
try ; and many, I believe, found their way to this
country. Should Gentlemen have an inclination to
fee what was going forward in my unhappy coun-
try, I will undertalte to provide half a dozen with
a villa, where they (hall, if they pleafe, remain t
or i 8 months; they-will then have an opportuni-
ty of judging with more accuracy of the [late of
Ireland. If the Noble Earl (Fitzwilltam) thinks
the hate of things has been tnifreprefented, he has
only to go to hi; own ellate in the county of Wick-
low ; he will there fee the change the face of the
country bears in coafequence of the unhappy re-
bellion. A Noble Lord near me, and a near
neighbour of the Noble Earl's, can inform him
what afpedt his own eflate wears. I cannot help
thinking, my Lords, that Government is much
indebted to the perfons who concluded the affairs
of Ireland at the molt critical period of its hiftory :*
had it not been for their vigilance, that country
would at this moment either be feparated from
England, or carrying on an open and expenfive
war. I would remind Noble Lords, That there is
not one fentence in the whole of the Report which
they have jitit heard read, that the Gi.vernment of
Ireland was not in poffellion of, long before it was
difclided hr the rebels in the (hape it (lands at pre-
fent." arts a great variety of other oblervat ions,
the Nolde I.ord concluded by adverting to tlie re-
port that lie .vas an advocate of torture. The
i; ',iodation for ,11:it report he laid he recolletled
el!, and lhotild Rate to the Honk. A blackfraitlt
had been apprehended, who, there was the Preat‘ft

I1,1"-- -

reafon to Lelieve, had been engaged in framing
pike head,. After various means being tried, in
vain, to free him to confefs where he had con-
ceaicd them, Le was placed upon the piquet. There
he had not remained half-a-minute when he told
where about might be found, and there they
were found a-cordini;ly. In anfwer to what had
fallen from a Noble Lord oppotite (Earl Moira),
he had laid it lliould maturely confidered whe-
ther fi,cictv would fuffer ni ill from the miii.der of
two or thice hundred loyal and well difpofed men,
whir!i seas pronably thus ',revolted, or from a rebel
hiackiniith being placed half-a-minute on the pi-
quet ? What he had faid then he now repeated,
and if there were any who, regardlefs of the two
or three hundred loyal and well difpof:d inhabi-
tants, pitied only the rebel blacklmith, he did :tut
envy them their.feelings.
Lord Frrzwituast fiid, that no proof was
given of any confp:racy having exiled in Ireland
at the time when he was at the head of the Go-
vernment in that country.
Lord Ceaas laid, he could bring the nutter to
his Lordfhip's recollenion ; but did not feel him-
fell at liberty to do fo then.
, Lord Moi RA laid, be wiflL:ti, if pogible, to draw
a veil over every tranfatlion which took place in
Ireland, the recital of which could only fill the
mind of every perfiat with ditgult. But he mull
repeat the affertinqs he had formerly made, in
order to comet miticprefentation. Hc had noted
that torture had been applied to perfons in Ire-
land to make them confefs their crimes, and ac-
Icufe their neighbours: this was a pradice which
he reprobated as ufeicfs and unjuft ; and as a
proof of that affertion, there was one man who had
been piqueted, and fubjeifted to various other tor-
tures, in order to force a confellion from him, and
after all he did not make a true confeffion. If the
hate of Ireland was fuch as their Lordfhips had
jun heard from the noble Earl, would any man
fay thit it was not owing to fome mitinanagement
of the Government ? It was obferved by Plato,
that a general 'edition exiling in a State, was pre-
, fumptive evidence that it had been caufed by the
conduel of the Government. If Ireland was in
fuch a fituation as the noble and learned Lord re-
prefented it to be in, the Bill then before the Honk
could not correft the evils that country laboured
under. Were not the people of Ireland human
creatures, and hcw was it pollible to bring them
to a fenfe of humanity except by mild treattneat ?
by infpiring them with a fenfe of fecurity, which
could not be done by eftablithing a law like the
prefent, which could not even be called martial
law ; but it was filch a law as hung like a fcourge
over men's heads, and while they continued
under its terrors, they could enjoy 'lto fecurity,
poffefs neither mildncfs or humanity ; nor ever be-
come peaceable or good fubjeas. As to the com-
binations entered into to murder people, he minted
to know whether the noble Lord meant to (late
that they were general or not ?—(Lord Clare an-
twovd Feneral).-,“ Then," fail Lord Moira,
" this Bill is inadequate to the purpofc of prevent-
ing raaffacres." In fuch cafe nothing would do
but military law proclaimed all over Ireland.
Therefore one great objection to the Bill was, that
of its limiting the operation of martial law. Ano-
ther objeftion was, that of its attempting to lega-
lize that which could not be reduced to law. If
it fhould appear that a real neceffity did exift for
fuppreffing rebellion and murder in Ireland, the
bell way would be to invert the Lord Lieutenant
with full powers to all as he lhould think proper,
but with fuch a refponlibility attached to him that
he fhould afterwards throw himfelf on the country,
which fhould judge of hi: concha. He was Pure
there was no noble Lord in that Hoare who would
Ibrink from fuch a duty, or fuch a rerponfibility.
But this Bill, oncepaffed into a law, would re-
move all refponfibility from the Viceroy, who
would not be obliged to give the motives for his
condua. This Bill infliCted a deep wound on the
Britifh Conflitution, and nobody could doubt hut
that another Ali of the kind would be paired for
England. He would not pledge hind& to oppofe
this Bill ; but he heard nothing Bated as yet to
convince him of its neceffity, and until he did, he
fhould continue to oppufe it.
Lord MULORATI wondered that, after hearing
the eloquent fpeech of the noble and learned Lord
(Clare), any man could doubt the neceflity of the
meafure which the noble Lord who (poke lull pro-
pored to fubflitute in its Read. This was a legal
rellraint againfl the improper exercife of power,
the other would permit the Viceroy to do what-
ever he pleafed.
Lord HOLLAND raid, that during the fhnrt time
he had a feat in that Houfe, he never oppofed any
Bill againft which he had fuch infuperable objec-
tions as the preterit. It was a complete contra-
diCtion to the affertions of thofe who had fupport-
ed the Union ; who had raid that the Union would
deltroy all local prejudices, &c. It had alto been
raid, in fupport of the Union, that the natives of
Ireland were unfit judges of what was bell for
that country; but now that the Union was paired,
they were to be confideted as the bell judges of
every eircumflance relating to Ireland. He de-
nied that there was any evidence before the Houfe
to ground this meafure upon ;_ the papers that had
been read, and which Rated the niftence of rebel-
lious praCtices three years ago in Ireland, were no
evidence of loch neceffity. As well might the ac-
count of the rebellion in Scotland be given as a
round for eftablifhing military law in Scotland.
he fpeech made by Lord Cornwallis to the Par-
liament in January *Soo, wherein he congratu-
lated both Houfes on the termination of thi_ rebel.
lion, and on all tendency towards infurreftion be-
ing removed; proved that no pound tufted at
that time for fuch a Bill as this; and the only
ground that could now be properly Hated, was
that of an application made left year by Lord
Cornwallis. The Noble and Learned Lord in his
fpeech had frequently ufed the word Democracy,
by which he probably meant the mats of the Pen-
' pie. This opinion was certainly not to be direttly
followed in every fepsinte AR of the Legiflature ;
bit, this be would maintain, that all Government
mull be calculated for their good; and if it was
not, it could not be a good Government. He
could not believe that the People of Ireland wen'

a fit of Barbarians ; and if they were, Etc thone:t
that no fociety fhould there exift. He was not a,:
quainted with the mats of the People of tha•
country, but he knew many Gentlemen belonginj,
to it, and there were none whofe talents, cot.-
rage, and amiable qualities he more refpeaed.—
He would not fay that he doubted the fads related
by the Noble and Learned Lord ; but he mull fay,
that that was not the fort of evidence on which
the Hook ought CO proceed. Perlial.s upon a full
I.iveltigation, that horrible as theft lads were,
they had proceeded from motives different from
what Noble Lords now fuppofed. If, howebc:.
fads were listed in a Menage from the Clown,
the Minister would be refponfible, if they after-
wards turned out to be falfe. But no refponlibili-
ty attached to the fpecies of evidence now given.
As to the horrors in Ireland having been commit-
ted merely from a love of blood, he believed that
men were capable of being brought to inch a fa-
vage and barbarous Rate of mind; and that Whi
one of his principal grounds for oppoling the L... 1.
The poffibility of the human mind being fo de-
praved, was with him a reafon for not giving to in-
dividuals fuch a power as the Bill would invert
them with. This Bill might afford protection to
great properties ; but it would be the deftrudiou
of little properties, as mull appear obvious to every
man who knew the nature of a military difpofition,
which was the worn of all bad Governments:—
Admitting the necellity for this Bill to be ever fo
great, he would refill it on the broad principles of
moral juftice.
The Earl of LIMERICK fupported the Bill as
abfolutely necelTary for the prefervation of Ire-
land. He contended, that no perfons could have
a knowledge of the Rate of Ireland, or tell what
was fit for it but thofe who had gaffed a great part
of their time in the country. Thofe Englitla Meru.
hers of Parliament who oppofed the meafure; of
coercion in that country, were ignorant of its fl-
tuation. From whence did they receive their in.
formation? From traitors, who had come over
from that country, and deCeived themwith fare re.
prefentations, fo as to induce them to go and give
evidence in their favour on their trials. The other
defcription of perfons from whom they received
their information could not be called traitros, he-
cattle they never declared themfelves openly, but
flunk away during the hour of danger. waiting to
fee what fide would be the flronger ; and after
the conteft was decided, they made their appear.
ance and began to accufe thole loyal Gentlemen
and Yeomen who had bravely fought in the field
and faved their country. The (laments of loch
perfons were now to be taken as authority againk
the evidence of numbers of Noblemen and Gen-
tlemen from Ireland, who had been !witneffts of
fuch horrors as this Bill was intended to prevent.
Lord CARLETON fpoke thorny in fupport of the
neeeffity of the meafure, and declared that nothiag
but a conviction that it was elfentially reqoifite
for the fafety of Ireland could have induced him
to give it fupport. The prefent Rate of the coun-
try, however, from all the information of which
he was, in poireffion,. he was convinced was filch,
that the municipal law was altogether inadequate
to the fup,preffion of diforder, or the protection of
loyalty, and that the Judges were unable to apply
this law to the various crimes which had fprung
out of the rebellion. No one, he believed, would
be apt to fufped him of preferring the dicilions of
a military mbunal to thofe of the municipal law,
but believing that the latter were not calculated
fur the diftraded Rate of the country, he was wil-
ling.for a short time to relinquifh their advantages
to give up a part to five the whole. The Bill hut
not been originally adopted or continued without
a full perfualion of its tweak'', and he had rea-
fon to think this neciffity was not let's at prefent,
for according to the lateß accounts which had
reached him from Ireland, he believed that Ire-
land was lefs tranquil at this moment than it had
been a year ago. He adverted to the circus:.-
fiance that the Bill was introduced into the other
Houle of Parliament with the exprefs approbation
of the prefent Lord Lieutenant, whole integrity
none had ever dared to difpute ; whole feelings of
humanity all allowed, and who would not, with-
out a ftroag conviction of the nceeffity of the mea-
fure, recommend a meafure which added fo
much to his refponfibility. This recommend::.
tion he drew in aid of the fads which had been
adduced in fupport of the meafure, and concluded
by giving his decided fupport to the meafure.
The Larl of Kissout profeffed his unalterable
attachment to the conflitution, and his unwilling.
nefs to agree to any meafure which fo ftrongly
trenched on its fpirit and privileges. From the
fads which had been Rated, however, refpeeting
the Rate of Ireland, he had no doubt of the ne-
ceffity of the meafure, and exprelled his craft that
inftead of deftroying it would be the means of far-
ing the Conflitution. He alluded to the meafure
which it had been thought neceffary to adopt by a
Whig adminiftration in thedifirming of the High- .
Landers in Scotland after the Union ; and conten-
ded that as this meafure bad been prodildive of
no bad confequences, but, on the contrary, hail
been the means of giving fuller effect to the bid-
fings of the Conftitution, Co he trusted this ma-
lure, though in the mean time violent, would be
the means of relloring peace and happinefs to Ire-
land.

Lord Gattavuta erpread I,is trull that a mei-
fure of this nature would never be adopted by
Britith Parliament without the fulleft conlideratiot.,
and the fironga proofs of its neceflity. He was
convinced that fufficient proofs had now been ad-
' duced to prove that it was effential to the prefer-
ration of the lives and property of the loyal in-
habitants of Ireland. In reply to an argument
ufed by a Noble Lord, that the defcription of the
horrors of the rebellion' three years ago, which
was long fincc wholly put down he argued, that
the reports laid on the table fullicicntly pointed
out the fallacy of fuch an argunient. From thcle
reports it fufficicntly appeared that the rebellion
as of fuels a nature, that though the rebellious
army was deftroyed in the field, the principles on
which it had been formed had been mfufecl into
the fpirit of the people long before this rehellien
appeared in the field, and that their influence
would iteceirarily 'be protracted long after tip: