Star.
London, England, 1801-11-21 00:00:00

GUARANTF.E OF THE TURKISH DOMINIONS.

Mr. BANKS role for the purpofe of obtaining
form information from his Majefty's Minifters,
upon a fubjca which he conticlered to be of confi-
importance. He obferved, that by the
tifth article of the Preliminary Treaty, this coun-
try flood engaged to guarantee the dominions of
Turkey; at the la.nie time the Houfe, in his opi-
nion, was not fttilkiently informed with refpeCt to
our relative fitueion with that country. The ar-
tick in quetticn fccmed to refer to a guarUntee of
the dominions of Turkey by a Treaty, which he
believed, had not been laid before the Houle. He
was fully perluaded, that the Right Hon. Perfon
who prelided in his Majefty's Councils had no
with nor intention of refuting to the Houle the
fulled information on the fuhjal. He felt anxious
that this country fhould, at the end of a weir, be
left ft ee from filch engagements or embarraffments
ref-tithing other powers, as might eventually in-
volve her in another war, under circumflances
which might be injut ious to its interefls, or which
might tempt her to the other alternative which he
conlidered as QM more injurious, of deviating
from its honourable and uniform policy of main-
taining its good faith towards other powers. To
obtain, therefore, the withed for information, he
Ihould move, " That an humble Addrefs be pre-
fented to his Nlajeily, that he would be gracioufly
pleafed to give orders, that there be laid before
the Houfe a copy of the Treaty entered into be-
tween his Majetiy and the Sublime Porte, in the
month of January, t 799."
Lord HAWK ESTICRY fitid, lie 11tw no objection
that could be made agalrdl the, produCtion of this
Treaty ; nor, indeed, was he aware, till what he
,had Ittacrl tall firm) the I Itritortt able Gentleman,
that the Treaty in quettion had not been actually
laid bcfnre Patiiitoent. At any rate lie would
°bleu ye, that the Article ref-pet:1;11g Turkey, in
Ott Pt elimlnary Treaty, did not inipofe upon us
any additional engagenvnt. The Ti eaty of 1799
was fel,n :01::r the viamy of Lord Miro% and'
wilt( ior to 3 Treaty of :4114; ec which had
ht. en c.rirchttled b. tween Rolla and the Sublime
; ;:i ii J..: ::•.TV following., the Treaty was
!,)!Irt LI hcu is (.01 this Coua.try and the Porte, and
3,4r5-zalAy to that untras rati!i eel bet ween
Pitt!:a .tad turkey. Tip: Article in the Preltaii- I
nary .1 teatc could tint he enaldirred a. .t it,ii gua-
Tr:tree of the it tegrity ot. the Tura ith cinrnirunsts
• ad::r erciinillanc,..s; the may ditt.tenee, as It
. 1.. r., he:,‘••en the two was
, :hat 1)% 1,,ti.:(1‘. of Pcacc

France became engaged as a party in the guaran-
tee of the integrity ot,the Ottoman dominions.
Mr. Wicastroaca did not like pledging th:
country to Treaties of this kind offenfive and de-
fenfive, without moll maturely confidering their
extent and tendency. He fuppofed the cafe of a
poffible rupture between the Porte and Ruflia, in
which, under the terms of the Treaty, this coun-
try would he called on by France to interfere and
quarrel with an Ally. Too much caution could
not be exercifed on a ground of this fort.
The motion was however put and agreed to.
SECRET SERVICE MONEY.

Mr. Comer brought up the Report of the Com-
mittee of Supply.
The fief Refolution having been read and
agreed to by the Honk, the next, refpeding Se-
cret Service Money, was read alfo ; when
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER role, and
obferved that on reconfidering the fum he. had
already propofed upon this head, and in which he
was fupported by the vote of the Committee, he
found that upon a comparifon of the probable oc-
callous of the coming year compared with the
pall—a period of peace and tranquillity abroad
and at home, compared with an arduous confiid
abroad, and feditious difpofitions amongft the
lower orders of the people in various parts of the
United Kingdom, fomented by domeftic traitors,
and the machinations of our enemies, he judged
that fo large a fum as 33,000 L would not be
ne-
celfary. The expenditure of the laft year under
this head, fell very confiderably short of the foal
voted, and he therefore thought no inconvenience
whatever could arife under the prefent fituation
and profped of the country, by reducing the fum
of 33,0c01. to 12,3001. He wifhed to lave the
Houle trouble by declining to move the recommit-
tal of the Refolution. And he moved his amend-
ment in the orderly form.
Mr. ROBSON &Id, that, after having troubled the
Houfe a few days ago on the fubjed of the Secret
Service Money, he thould only now snake a few
obfervations. He difliked feeing fuch annual
grants introduced in the regular votes of Supply.
Secret Service Money went to feed people in Ger-
many, who always ultimately betrayed us. Large
fupplies for the enfuing three months had been al-
ready granted, and which the Houfe had been told
were not likely to he all wanted; Purely then, the
prefent demand might be paid out of the monies
voted for fuch Supplies. He wanted to be in-
formed why fecret fervice money ihould be wanted,
now that we are in profound peace ? and that at
a time, when many families, of fixed incomes, were
hefitating whether they Mould quit the country
tiom the oppreffion of the Income Tax. The vot-
ing of fuch grants, he confidered to be of a dan-
gerous tendency to the Conftitution. He believed
that it was a novel prattice to grant fecret fervice
money by At of Parliament, at leaft that its
commencement might be dated from the year
1787. He reckoned, that upon an average ofthe
lafi nine years, the fecret fervice money amounted
to upwards of 60,0001. per annum : fo that the
Minifler of the day had had about :soot. per week,
which he thought was a fum too large to entrull
to him without accounting for. And on an ave.
rage of the laft fix years, he reckoned that this
fecret fervicc money had amounted to the enor-
mous fum of 183,2 tot. per annum. When the
fum of 33,000 for three months had been lately
propofed, and palled a Rage in the Houfe, he was
much ationiffied that fuch a fum fhould be pro-
pofed and acquiefced in for a periodof three months
of peace. He thought it too much that 12001.
per week fhould have been taken 6y the Minder
for fecret Cervices out of the Civil Lift, and with-
out rendering any account of the difpofal of it to
the public. 'Phis he confidered to be an uncon-
ftitutional meafurc, which fhould not be Coffered
to exift in a free Government.

The CHANCELLOR of the Excntopts. raid, that
by what arithmetical procefs the Hun. Gentleman
found out that 50,0001. a year was 'soot. a week,
or that p times 12C01. was 50,0001. he could not
potlibly guefs, becaufe to every body .except the
Hon. Gentleman, it mutt appear clear that 50,0001.
a year was not quite wool. a week. But it teemed
rather ftrange that the Hon. Gentleman (Mould
take the opportunity of charging Minifters with
improvidence at the very moment when they were
propofing fo very confiderable a redation in the
public Expence. The Hon. Gentleman prefumed,
he fuppofed, that becaufe 35,0001. was alked for
the three months, that four times that furn would
be required for the Service of the year ; in this,
however, he was millaken, as it was intended only
to have applied 50,0c01. for the whole year. Upon
re-cOnfidering the fuhjeEt it was now his intention,
inllead of propofing to recommit the Rcfolution,
to move to have the alteration made at preterit
while the Speaker was in the Chair. As to what
the Hon. Gentleman had Paid about 60,0001. being
taken out of the Civil Lift for fecret fervice mo-
ney, he really did not underfland what the Hon.
Gentleman meant ; he only knew that he had no
fuch tom at his difpotal. A certain furn for fecret
fervice money was always neceffary, and Parlia-
ment had always mulled Minillers with the difpo-
I fal of a turn for that purpofe, and the Money
which had been Franted to the late Adminiftra-
lion was lets, with the exception of three years,
than had been granted to any of their Predecef-
I fors in time of %Var. It seas nut the intention of
Minitters to aft: for more than had been granted
lilt ).ear, vii. to,oocl. and that turn would not be
applied if it was not needful-.
Mr. Rosstot iltid, it appeared by the Papers be-
fore the Houle, that for r s years a turn of above
60,0001. had been taken out of the Civil Lill for
fecret (dyke money : the Paper be alluded to es as
a Itatement of the funs granted for fecret fervice
money for 25 years. As to the granting of money
fur this put-pole by Pal liament, it was a new prac-
tice, and had not been done above ro years.
The CHANCE( Los of the Etc tisox sa laid, that
the Hon. (lend, man was perpetually conveving
to hint nov infoi mai i•tti : he really knew nothing
alvi.ut the lam to n hich the lion. Gentleman al-
luded.

Mr. Et.t.t.trot 1141, lie lea% inclined to give the
htiii*r% Inch ::,tiplits As they mi;;ltt deem ne-
e:A.lry for t:.: Public .c:. Li:re appe.u.il,

he thought, upon this occafion, a degree of Ica-
'only which the charafter and concha& of the pre.
fent Minitters by no means deferved, and until he
faw reafon to the contrary, he fhould place that
confidence in the prefent Adminiftration to sthich
they appeared fo well entitled.
Mr. VANSITTART laid, that the Hon. Gent
man had fitid, this was a new pratite within ten
years, and as a proof of his :ilk:Lion, he produced
a paper containing a Itatement of the fums grant.
ed for 25 years. The Hon. Gentleman teemed to
think that befides the fum granted by Parliament,
there was another large fum applicable to that
purpole : if it was In, he had never been able to
find it, though it was his duty to turn his atten-
tion pretry much to the Public Accounts.
Mr: Roasow Paid, he relied upon the paper
which was laid upon the Table, and he did not
find that any money had been granted by /lathe.
ment for fuch fervice till 178$.
The Cirawesttoit of the Exclitopea Paid,
Hon. Gentleman was not aware that by Mr.
Burke's Bill, the (urns paid out of the Civil Litt
for this purpofe were to be paid out of another
fund. The Hon. Gentleman, in order to fupport
his argument, ought to have (hewn that money
was advanced out of the Civil Lift for this ter.
.vice, and that at the fame time money had been
granted by Parliament for the fame purpole. He
had not done to ; all he had done was to They,
that formerly large firms were applied out of the
Civil Liftfor this purpofc. At prefent he could
only fay, that not a flitting was taken out of the
Civil Lift for Secret Services, all the money being
granted by Parliament. Heconcluded with with.
drawing his former Motion fbr recommitting the
Refolution, and moving to amend the Refolution
by fubffituting 12,5001. for 35,0001.
Mr. Roasow role to objeft to the Refolution ge.
nerally, when he was called to order by the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, who Paid, the Hon. Gen-
tleman could not object generally
.to the Refolu-
tion after a motion for amending it.
The SPEAKER laid, the Hon. Member would
have an opportunity of oppofing the whole of the
Refolution when the queftion was put upon the
Refolution generally.
Mr. Jowls Paid, he thought his Hon. Friend
could not enter into a general objeftion to the Re-
folution, when the queftion was put, whether the
whole of the Refolution thould be agreed to or
not ? For his own part he had not the leaft idea
that the public money would be mifapplied by
the Minifters. _

Mr. Rosso): Paid, he had no intention of impu.
ting any fuch intention to Minifters ; but he con.
tended he had a right to argue upon the papers
laid before the Houle.. _

Mr. SHAW Lsravai (aid, he was glad that the
Houle had no intention of making any fuch an
attack upon the Minifters, becaule he was con-
vinced, from their conduel, that no fuch imputa-
tion could be made again ft them, with the flighteft
juftice.
The CVANCELLOR of the EXCHFVER faid, he
was aware-that it was not only the right but the
duty of every Member to watch over the public
expenditure, and he biggcd to obferve, that he
did not tinderftand the Hon. Gentleman as throw-
ing out any imputation againit Minifters. But ha
WAS anxious that expreffions ufed there, ihould no-
produce impreftons elfewhere very different from
the intention of thofe who ufed them. In 1782,
Mr. Burke's Bill paired, by which the Secret Ser-
vice Money was to be granted by that Houle, in-
Read of being taken from the Civil Lilt. The only
fum taken out of the Civil Lift now for that pur-
pole, was to,oool. a year, which-wascalledTrea-
fury Money, for Secret Service at home, but them
was not a fhilling taken out of the Civil Lilt for
tortign Secret Service Money. The fum now to
be applied for was only yo,OOOL which was lets
than had been granted upon former occafions, ex-
cept laft year. The Hon. Gentleman had laid,
that the employment of the (urns voted for Secret
Services, were never accounted for ; but if he
would only look into Mr. Burke's Bill, he would
find that the Secretary of State was to make oath
relative to the difpofition of thole monies.
Mr. Roesom laid, that during the whole of the
American war Minifters did not come to the Hour:
for a tingle farthing for Secret Services. Where
the mom y came from that was then applied to
this purpofe he knew not, but he fuppofed out of
the Civil
The CHANCELLOR of the Excasoarte laid, that
if the Hon. Gentleman knew any thing, he mull
know this, that Parliament had, wi bin the period
alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman, paid the debts
of the Civil Lift, a great past of which wore from
the fums applied for Secret Services.
Sir JOHN Paa m ELL role to (peak to Order. He
could not conceive bow kthe continuance of this
difuuffion applied to the queftion before the Houle.
There was not a word laid about leffening the fum,
and it was the firft time he had heard of any jea-
-1014 being (hewn at the Minifter's decreafing the
expences of the country. Before Mr. Burke's bill.
Minifters could fpend whatever fum they pleated
in Secret Services, but by the provifions of that
Bill, the precife fum was to be voted by Parlia-
ment. He could not imagine for a moment that
any one would opptife the voting of Secret Service
Money, which was always abfolutely neceffary,
the application of which had, he was lure, prefer-
ved both England and Ireland from infurreltions
And rebellions, and which was effential to the
terefli of the State. The money now propofed to
lie voted was certainly reduced to the finalieftfum
;liable 4 he was only doubtful whether it was large
enough. No one could deny the truth of the pa-
per brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Robfon), but he denied the inference that was
attempt( d to be drawn from it, it having no 'ela-
tion to the quell" before the Houle.
Mr. Et. LIfOR raid, the Hon. Gentleman (Mr-
Robfon) had been merely talking of Auks which
exifted previous to Mr. Burke's Bill, and which
were put an end to by that BiU.
The Itelidution As amended Was then agreed to,
as were aLb the remaining Refolutions.
The Committee of Stipply and Ways and MOAN
were deferred till afonday.
Ailourricd at a coal ter pal five.

!e of jca
F the pre.
d until lie
ihce that
to %%hid

• Gcntic-
sithin ten
produced
ms grant.
teemed to
trliament,
e to that
n able to
Lis mea-
s.

the paper
e did not
by Parlia.

faid,
t by tir.
Civil Lill
)f another
to fupport
it Money
this fer.
had been
pofe. He
s to limy,
out of the
he could
out the
ney being
with kith.
it ting the
tefolution

lotion ge.
the Chan-
ion. Gtn-
it Ref()lu-

er would
ale of the
upon the

It. Friend
to the Re-
ether the
:ed to or
lead idea
plied by

of impu.
it he con.
he papers

I that the
f fuch an
was cun-
t imputa-
e flighteft

fid, he
t but the
he public

that he
as throw-
But he
could no-
Tot from
In 1782,
Bret &r-
-oute, in-
fle only
:hat por-
ed Trea-

mat there
Lift for
now to
was lels,
lions, ex-
lad laid,
w Secret
ut if he
to would
akc oath

le of the
le Houle
Where
,plied to
mi out of

Lid, that
he mutt
e period
he debts
ofe from

cr. He
of this
: Houle.
the fan,
any jea-
.fing the
ke's bill,
plea fed
of that
r Parlia-
ent that
Service
teetfary,
, profet-
TSOions
) the in•

pored to
left rum
as large
the ra-
mtleman
hat was
110 tela•

n (Mr•
s which
i which

recd to,

I NICAUS