Star.
London, England, 1812-07-02 00:00:00

sadefattion to every class of his Majesty's subjects,
but would the proposition of to night do this ?—a
proposition which went to chaNce the whole Con-
stitution of the Realm, as established at the Re.
volution. He had heard Lord Hardwick and Lord
Somers quoted as authorities on this occasion. He
was sorry to observe the descendants of those
Noble Lords acting so differently to what these great
men had done. What was the argument of the
Noble Marquis to-night, and what was his proposi-
tion? His proposition was consideration, but .his-
whole argument was absolute concession to the Ca-
tholics. Until the 23d of April last, he had never
heard the Noble Marquis utter such sentiments as he
had to night ;'or indeed previous to that time had he
even ,a suspicion that such opinions were entertained
by • him. In the vote which he should this night
give, be begged leave to be understood as not
binding or pkdging himself to whit he would do at
the beginning of next Session of Parliament, but he
must act upon the circumstances of the time ; and,
looking at the recent transactions in Ireland, would
any one say this was a proper time ? The Noble
Lord then adverted to the Resolutions recently en-
tered into by the Irish Catholios, which he animad-
verted on with great severity. He acknowledged
they could not be considered as officially before the
House, but unless they were to legislate blindfold,
they could not shut their eyes to what was passing.
In reading the Constitution and Acts of Parliament,
he found that this was a Protestant Kingdom govern-
ed by a Protestant King, and that the Established i
Church was to be protected and preserved ; and upon
these pi inciples they had acted since 1658. Lord
Hardwick had said on one occasion, if you suffer
your religious -establishment to be broken in upon,
you not only endanger the established Church, but
you endanger your civil liberties—(llear, hear,)—
The Noble Marquis who brought forward the motion
bad said, the influence of the Priest did not extend
beyond spiritual matters ; but was it nut well known
that many things which we considered as temporal
matters they considered as spiritual matters? And
had not Judge Blackstone, who had frequently been
quoted on this question, though net
said, that "so long as the Catholics acknowledged a
foreign Sovereign, they must not complain it they
were not admitted to the power of the State." He
should not now detain the House any longer than by
proposing an amendment, which he should persist in,
oven if he should stand alone. The Noble Marquis
had agr. ed with him, and voted with him at the com-
mencement of the present Session, that this was not
the time to entertain the question. The Noble Mar-
quis's opinion had altered—his ( Lord Eldon) re-
remained the same : and therefore be should now
move the previous question.
11 Lord HA RDWICKE said, according to the Noble
',Lord's argument, had just sat down, t!:e door
ought,from the very tirst,tolia.ve been shut against the
Catholics, and that neither the Act of I 7 or 1793
should hare been passed, and indeed that no conces-
sion at all should have been made to the Catholics.
He, however, had known Ireland under various cir-
cumstances, and he was persuaded that her happiness
and prosperity depended on the question being en.
tertained. Such, he believed, ha:? been the opinion,
of the Noble Lord who preceded him ( Lord Hard-
wicke) in the Government, :t'id such had been the
opinion of Lord Coinwallis, who had &elated his
opinion, that the claims of the Catholics ought to be
attended to, otherwise we should declare that we had
united with persons who ought to have been destroyed.
He honoured the memory of Lord Cornwallis for that
sentiment, and be honoured Nit-. Pitt for his conduct,
who, when he found he could not effect which the
Catholics, he th' ught, bad a right to expect, retired
from public service. The Noble Lord had expressed his
concern, that certain Peers bad departed from the opi-
nion of their ancestors. He might with equal pro
priety have contended, that because Lord Hardwicke
was connected with that Government that had made
the Assiento Treaty, his descendant, therefore, should
'not vote for the abolition of the Slave Trade. (Hear,
Hear.) .In his (Lord Hardwicke's) opinion, the
Catholics had a right to have their claims granted,
and therefore he should vote for the motion of the
Noble Marquis.

Lord CLANCARTY could have wished that the
Catholics had so conducted themselves, that they
might themselves have been called in to assist in the
arrangement of their claims ; they, however, had re •
cently adopted a line of conduct which rendered that j
impossible. It therefore now o•nly remained to con-I
eider what steps were proper to be taken. It must be I
evident to every one, that things could not perma-
trendy remain in the state in which they now were;
and therefore their Lordships must take the subject
up. He thought it was highly necessary that secu-
rities. should be taken from the Catholics ; and it'
trculd be for their Lordships to consider what those
securities should be. In every state in which the Ca-,
thohc religion bad bete tolerated, it had been ft and
necesary not only to provide strong barriers against
the power of the Pore, lint also against the Popish
religkn itself ; and he h u•tcd their Lordships would
be cartful to provide good and sufficient secuiitits
on the present occasion.
The DU KE of SUSSEX said, that af:cr the very
ample detail of his opinions on this subject which he
had given on a former occasion, it was not his inten-
tion to troub:e their Lordships with a repetition of that
detail ; but after what had fallen horn the Noble
Lord on the Wooli4ack, he found it impossible not to
make a short and .conscientious effort to counteract
the tendency of those sentiments to which the Noble
Lot d had given utterance. He hoped that he would
be believed by the country, and by their Lordships,
when he said he felt as great.anxiety for the support
of our establishments in Church and State, as the
Noble Lord, though he differed from him most widely
in the manner of that support. As he had just said, ,
hi.. opinion on the present subject was long since
made up ; bt he should not do justice to the Noble
Marquis, if he did not express his satisfaction at the
splendid exes Lion with which the Noble Marquis had
this night confirmed his opinion—with which he had
strengthened his conviction. The question now came
before their Lordships in st.mewhatof a different shape,
and from those in which it even lately appeared. Its
position, relative to external considerations, was much
altered for the better. When it was last before the
House, various difficulties existed, and various opi-
nions were held, which were now overcome or aban-
doned. No man, with the events of the last six weeks
ill his eye) could say, that a very cunsidcrable