Star.
London, England, 1807-02-20 00:00:00

POOR LAWS.

Mr. WHITBREAD role to make his promifed
Motion relpeeting the Amelioration of the Poor
Laws. He mirth wilhed that there (horrid have been
a fuller attendance upon In great a fubjeet. The
propofition which he had to offer to the Houle, was
poffibly one of the molt interelling that could be
fubmitted to.any affembly : it was no lefs than an
attempt to folve a problem which had long engaged
the attention, and employed the ingenuity of the
wife, the good, and the humane of every country.
It was, in lhort, an attempt to leffen the meafure of
human calamity, and to diminifh the fum of human
fuffering. To clothe the naked, to feed the hungry,
to comfort and relieve the tick, to uphold the aged
and infirm, to feparate vice from mifery—thefe
fhould be the objeets of the Government of all coun-
tries ; arid they had been peculiarly fo of the Legifla-
ture of this kingdom at all timer. The principles
upon which ,cur whole fyliem of Poor Laws was
founded, contained in themfelves every thing that
was benevolent and good. They had been enacted
by the wifeß of ttatefmen under the molt glorious of
reigns, and it was not until of late years that they
had been difcovered to be radically defective. He
could not helter illultrate there radical defects in
them, than by mentioning to the Houle what occur-
red in a Committee lall Sefliun, of which he was a
Member. It was a Committee to which the con-
fideratiun of the fituation of the poor in l-,land had
been referred, the mifery of whom was fcarcely to
he deferibed. The Committee was contlituied of a
certain portien of Members from Ireland and Eng-
land ; and the former were unanimoufly of opinion
that the adoption of the Poor Laws of England
would only tend to it.creafe the mifery of the Itifh
poor. The fubjeCt to which he would requeß the
attention of the Houle, had at different times been
taken up by various projeetors ; and many plans had
been formed for remedying the defects of the Statute
of the 43d of Elizabeth, the foundation of our fyltem
of Poor Laws. There was not an ael which re•
ecived the facelion of Parliament, that did not in
its preamble recite the defects and infufficiency
of the ii,otoe of Elizabeth. Since his •firli en
trance Parliament, the fubjeet had engaged
much of his attention ; and twice in the courle of
his political life he cfftoed fume propofitions to the
Hoof:, which were not adopted. The fuhjeet had
alio forced itfeif upon t!--e great mind ot the late
Pitt. \Vi:h a power of eloquence, which per-
haps c•odd not he. equalled, but which certainly could
not he excelled, Irk lubmitted a plan to the Houfe
tor trnedying il,Carnoft prominent defects in the fyl-
tem of the Poor Laws, and like thole that preceded
it, it proved abortive. His Bill was pr;ntecl, but it
never came under dircutlion. In memorable
Ipeech upon that occ Afton, he confider ~d the Act of
the 43d of Elizabeth, as the Bible, he might fay, of
the Code for the Regulation r f the Poor. It was
not Lis interoinn, in what Ire had to offer to the
Houle, to adhere fir iCtly to the plan which had been
iglu propolcd, although there were fume parts of it
which he would with to lee adopted. Since the period
the fohjeCt was }alt difcuffed in that Houfe, the pub-
lic mind had undergone a great revolution as far as
regarded that queltion. Philolophers of no mean
name had undertaken to prove that the principles
upon which we had hitherto legiflated for the poor,
were radically erroneous and defective. Among
flack, one of the moil dillinguifned was Mr. Malthus.
His reafoning upon the fubie6t was not capable of
being refuted. It was impoilible to diffent from molt
of his demonfirations ; in fome cf his deductions,
however, he could by no means agree. He would
nut at ortrent take op the time ot the Haute, with I
_going into a confidelution cf abfiraB qiieflions of
right, though, perlorp, it was Ince:Lily for coming

to a found deciflon on the fubjeCt. 'Whether man
had a right to fupPart from his fellow-creatures was:
not a queftion requiring to he dircuffed in a BOLA
Leg:flature. The v.ifdorn of our anceflors had notj
left it to be decided by feeling or caprice, but relief;
was to be found on the Statute Book. Since the ),
fy:tem was fo deikdive, it might be afked of him,
What, do you mean to abrogate the Poor Laws
as they (land at patient ? To this he would anfwer,
Never with my confent. The fiarvation, mifery,
dearths, and calamity which would inevitably re-
loft from fo violent a meafure, would far exczed
all t':.rt horrors which had been produced by the I
devaflations of the molt favage and extenfive
conqueßs. There was no man who valued human i
life, who for a moment could entertain the idea of'
an immediate abolition of the fyliem. It was conk.
quently given up by all thofe who had confidered the,
fohjed. The next view of the queftion was as to the
pradicability of a gradual abolition ; whether the
country could not be put into that Rate in which it
was previous to the Ratute of the 43d of Elizabeth.
Among the perfons who bad favoured the public with
their fentiments on this great queftion, two Gentle-
men, Mr. Malthus and Mr. Arthur Young, were of
opinion that it was practicable. In this opinion a
late and molt enlightened Member of that Houle
(Sir W. Pulteney) concurred. He had conferred
with Mr. Young on the fubjed, and his opinion was,
that by taking an average of the poor rates for the';
fall year, and dividing themtmong different diftrids, ',
giving it to be underttood at the fame time, that on
no occafion fhould this allowance be incteafed, the,
amount of the rates would, in the courfe of time,;
come to be gradually dintinilhed. This, however,',
was proved by Mr. Malthus to be impollible, and it
was in dired variance with the opinion which Mr.
Young gave to the National Affembly of France on
the fubjed, when he was confulted by them. When
they propofed to allow 5o millions annually for the
fupport and relief of the poor, he demonßrated that
it would be impoflible to keep fiddly within the li-
mitation. Circumftances might mile which would!,
require that thefe 5o millions timid be incteafed to
too, thefe too to 200. He was fearful that he was
detaining the Houle, but he milled the magnitude of
the fubjer would juftify him for confidering it fo much
in detail. (Hew ! Hear ! from all quarterr.) (Here Mr.
Whitbread read to the Houfe the plan of Mr. Young
and Sir W.Pulteney, as contained in their writings and
letters.) Of the impraCticability of this plan he was
pc:fatly convinced. It would not be poffible to limit
the ex pences in all cafes. Epidemicdifeafes, unforefeen
calamities, dearth, and many other circumftances,
would render it impoflible. Inflances have often oc
coned, in which the poor of a whole parifh might
have been fwept away but for timely and liberal aid,
aid which could not have been granted, had the ex-
penditure of that parifh been limited to a particular
rum. There was another plan, one fuggefted by Mr.
Malthus, which did not appear quite fo objedionable
as thofe he had mentioned. It was to promulgate to
all perfons newly married, that no relief would be
granted, the confequence of which he conceived would
be, to extinguifb, in the courfe of time, all rates for
the maintenance of the poor. But this he was fear-
ful would give rife to perpetual jarring and difputes,
and reduce the country to that (late, in which it
was previous to the reign of Henry VIII. A Right
wHon. Gentleman over the way (Mr. Rofe) who had
favoured the public with his fentiments on the fob-
jed, had very ably defcribed the miferable condition
in which the country was at that time ; when the
poor went about Fr( m monaltery to monaltery,
to receive their daily fubfiftence ; when, as it was
expreffed in the Statute, the country was over-run
with a race of valiant and Rurdy beggars, too !hong,
in molt in fiances, for the law, and for the reftridion
and fuppreffion of which the molt fevere penalties
and punifhments were found neceffary. After the
diffolution of the monalleries the mifchief was in-
crcafed, and the Legiflature was obliged to have re-
courfe to the Kiting (Wines of Edward VI. One of
thefe enafted, that it should be lawful to feize any
perfun who was three days without work, to employ
him as a flare during fourteen years, and that if he
attempted to cfcape he might be put to death as a
felon. This fevere law was repealed foot or five years
after, but others of great rigour were ena:led. The
progreffive Statutes of the sth, 1 Bth, and aril of Eli.
zabeth, afterwards followed, until at laft came the
famous Statute in the 43d year of her reign, which
was the f ,undation of our prefent ()Item. Every one
of thefe arts complained of thefe armiesof valiant and
fturdy beggars, who were : oaming over the country
in every dilation. This was a Rate in which no man
would with to place the country. What then was to
be done? Why, that which Mr. Malthus had pro.
pored, to modify the laws and make them lefs ob.
jedianable. This was precifely his objet. He was
no enthufiall, far from it. He believed men were
born to labour •• as the fparks fly upwarch-." Any
perfon who fhould endeavour to inculcate any other
doltrine among the labouring claffes of mankind,
would be guilty of weaknefs, folly, and injußice.
It fbould be the objet of every legiflator, of every
perfon charged with the fundions of government, to
procure for the bulk of thofe who were the Adis of
their care, as much happincfs as was confiftent with
the narrow condition of human affairs. He could
never think of that beautiful expreffion of one of
the molt amiable monarchs of France, Henry, the
Fourth, without admiring the benevolence which
fuggefted it. That great Prince wifhed, that the day
might come, when every family in his kingdom
might have a fowl in their pot on a Sunday. Unfor-
tunately, however, this was a Rate of happinefs and
profperity which he feared would never be realized;
the wealth of the whole world would not be equal
to it. In an account which lie had lately Intel of New
South Wales, he found the convicts were at one time
impreffed with the opinion, that a country exilled not
many days journey from, them, where every thing
was produced fpontaneonfly, and where they might
pars their lives in luxury and idlenefs. Many of
them let out in fearch of this vifionary paradife, and
the confequenae was, that they perifbed in the effort.
They either died by famine, or became the prey of
wild beafts. So any politician, who timid endeavour
to perfnade the bulk of the people that they were in-
tended by nature to live without labour, would be
guilty of as great a folly as the wretched perfons who
pertfhed in (catch of the terrellriai Paradife he had
I mentioned. In what lie had to propale to the Houle
he was :satiated by no fuch frantic and fruitlefs con-
captions. His Ojai would be, fo to exalt the labour-

ing claret, as to make than afhamed of folic:ring or
obtaining parochial relief. He would endeavour
to itir and excite them to etertidn by rewards ;
and, above all things, to dißinguith betwettt the
criminal and the neeeffitons. In doing this, he
felt it neceffary to avoid any thing that might
poffibly lead to litigation, that might tend to
change acknowledged boundaries, or interfere
with the decifions of Courts of judice. He would
not even endeavour to modify any thing old, except
where he might have the advantage of pratice in, the
experiment. His fiat object, as he mentioned,
I thould be the exaltation of the labouring claffes.
Every Member of the Houfe, he trolled, would
agree with him, that this could not be more effeClual
ly accomplithed than by extending the hidings of
education, or, to tile the magnificent expreffion which
had, on a late oceafion, fallen from the Chair, to
open wide the doors to the acquit-I:ion of fo great a
benefit. He would not attempt to defcrihe the g: eat
advantages of educat. , and the difference between
brutality and civilization. It was his opinion, that
the whole of our population fhoold have the means
of education and information. He knew that preju-
dices prevailed againd this general communication
of knowledge ; but he mulled they had pat Ted away.
He did not think that there was any one acquainted
with the hitiory of ancient or modern times, who was
not fenfible of the great difference between a furious
unenlightened mob, and a civilized and cultivated
date of fociety. Had the Athenian people enjoyed
the bleffings of edncati^n, Ariftides would not have
been banilhed; had thole of Holland been intlrulted,
the Pentioner De Witt would not have been torn
in pieces. The difgraceful fcenes which occurred in
this Metropolis in 1780, would never have happened,
if the unhappy perfons who were engaged in them
had had their minds cultivated and rendered fenfible
to the neceility of venerating and obeying the laws.
If a flronger proof of the fuperinr areas of education
were wanting,look at Scotland. A mifconception had
gone forth with regard to the non-exiftence of a code
of Poor Laws in that country. It was fuppofed there
were none. The fad was otherwife. There were ftatutes
eliding in that country for relief of the poor— flatutes
which had been :stied upon and confirmed by the deci-
lion of the Court of Seilion; but fo little occafion was
there for apply ing to them,that they had become obfo-
lete. A celebrated writer, Fletcher of Saltown, dtf-
cribed, in 1698, with all that flrength that was pecu-
liar to him, the miferable condition of Scotland at that
time, when zoo,ooo people were begging from door to
door. When this unhappy hate of fociety was fol-
lowed by all the vices and mifery which were info.
parable from it—(the Honourable Member here
read an extract from Mr. Fletcher), what was the
remedy which he propofed for all this accumulati, n
of wickednefs and calamity ? Nothing elk but edu.i
cation. His fuggeftion was adopted, and the conic-
quence was that all this vice, beggary, and idlenefs
Iradually difappeared. The country became induf-
trious, tranquil, and moral, and continued fo until
within there very few years, when it was found ne-
ceffary that the poor laws fhnuld be again called into
ufe. The low flipends which were paid to fchool-
mailers in that country, than whom there was not a
more ufeful body in a date, had difgufted many with II
the employment, and caufed them to abandon it.—
The confequence was, that the means of education
were narrowed, and in the exalt proportion that it
was found to decline, miler), was found to increafe.
He hoped he had Paid enough to induce the Houfe
to allow him to bring in a bill fcr eftablithing a fyf-
tem of national education. This was a benefit which
could be extended to the country at a very (mall ex-
pence—but expence was no confederation when a
great national advantage and improvement was to
be obtained. It would repay ten thoufand fold all
that could be expended to obtain it. He was fo far
a friend to reform, that he withed to introduce that
greated of reforms, which was to give the benefit of
education to every man in the country. Since Mr.
Pitt opened his plan to the public, a fyltera of educa-
-1
tion bad been difcovered, which, much to his credit,
an Honourable Member of that Houfe, (Mr. Thom-
ton, we believe) had warmly fupported. It was alfo
ccuntenanced by many of the mod enlightened per.
funs in the other Houfe, and was fortunate enough
to have obtained the patronage of the ItoyalFamily.
This fyilem was the difcovery of a Mr. Lancader,
who was entitled to the thanks not only of this but
of every country for the labour with which he had en-
deavoured to ported and introduce it. This fy dem,
the cheapelt, the eatied acquired, and the mott ge-
neral and beneficial in its effects which human inge-
nuity had ever deviled, he trolled he would fee
flourith, notwithilanding the illiberal oppoiltion, and
the bafe prejudicies which had been, for what rea-
fon s he was at at lots to difcover, Co artfully excited
againft it. Next to the diffufion of the bleffings
of education, the meafure which he intended to pro-
pofe, refpeeted the Law of Settlement. In this he
meant Brielly to adhere to the plan of Mr. Pitt. His
propofition was (a propofition which had the fandlion
of all the great writers on the fubjelt) to throw open
Ithe Law of Settlement in come degree. Of all the
laws connected with the fytlem, this was the molt
fruitful in litigation. It produced more heart burn-
; ings, jealoufies, bafe and evil paffions, than any other
I which occafioned contentions between parifhes. At
firil the Law of Settlement was limited to three
years; but the Statute of Charles the Second intro-
duced a material change, and produced all the con-
, lotion, difgrace, and opprobrium which followed.—
; As the law flood in Scotland, a perfon who had re•
tided three years in a parifh, without obtaining or I°-
1 licking relief, was entitled to a fettlement. Mr. Pitt
propofed to enlarge this term, and to extend it to five
years, a period, for reafons which he would after-
wards explain, he would take. It therefore was hi,
intention to introduce into the Bill a claufe to the fol-
lowing effeel---that any perfon :eliding five years in
a place without receiving alms, or becoming otherwifc
chargeable, fhould be confidered as an inhabitant.
From this privilege, it was his intention to except
fuch perfons as Ihr.uld be convicted of grofs vi, la-
tions of law, nr offences to be fpc:ified. To obviate
the inconveniencies which might refult from the on-
refrained eft ablifliment of this principle, it would,
perhaps, he neceffary, in force cafes, to give autho-
rity to overfeers to enquire into the circumflances of
perfons. It would be very effential, if this regulating
thould be adopted, that a parilh fliould know whether
a perfon coming to :elide in it was likely to become
chargeable. 1 his was an enquiry, which, as the law
now flood, was feldom made until the death of the

perron oho was the obleal of it. The prireple aim a
he fhould with to fee introduced in this refloat, wel
neither novel nor dangerous. It was thc fame, in
fans, which obtained in every friendly I ciety throlga.
nut the kingd m, and was to be found in ever ! aft
relating to there ralutary off o:iations. It was alio his
intention to propore, that the Juftices at the Qarter
Seffions fhonld be veiled with power to give relief
to the labouring claire& under certain circumflances,
He propofed further, he hid, tl:at the Qaprter &mans
lhould have the power to give rev al dsto the labion o g
elides of the people who (herald bring up their fami.
lies, con filling of a ctrtaia number, without applyirg
ftr parochial relief; and, he had no doubt, but that
when loch a fyliem fhould be fr me time :sated upro,
many of that defcrirtinn of pertains would, in former-
ous inftances, become afbamed oft pplying for fuch
lief. He was the more inclined to this opinion here
what had within the ha 3 years eel any taken place,.
for, in confer:pence of feveral Agrionitiiral Societies
having been instituted in various farts of the country;
the firff of which was let on foot by that illoarioai
and patriotic character, the late Duke of Bedford,
—thole focieties, he laid, had granted rewarai
fuch as he had defcribed, to chore who had broughtup
the greatell number of children, w thous having made
application for any parochial relief. When thisfyaera
was fit ft propofed, he was apprehenfive there would
not be many claimants, but to his great furprize,
af-
tonifhmeet, and joy,he was molt agreeably deceived,
and when he came to talk with the farmers and others
in his immediate neighbourhood, he found that the
molt beneficial effects had refulted from thnfe rewards,
not only in the reditalion of the poor rates, but alfoin
operating as a (lima on the indrifity and the fob
briety of perforts in that dais. As, therefore, fo
much benefit had been found to accrue to the tom.
munity from the judicious and liberal regullations of
private focietics, he fhould with to make them the
btfes of a grand national improvement ; and, to that
end, he would propok that theJuffices in each county
fhould have the power to give rewards to all periling
who fhould bring up fix children without having ever
applied for parochial atfillance ; thole who brought
up feven or more, to be fo much more confidered
and diftingnifhed in the nature and value of thafe re.
wards. Man, he laid, is naturally fond of &line-
t ion, and he thought every one who had (hewn himfelf
more particularly defer, ving, by having brought op a
greater number than fix, ought tc be diflinguithed by
a badge of honour, which, when Peen and kno;in to
procure him superior ?doe& and esteem from his
neighbours, and efaecially from his fuperiors in life,
could not fail to stimulate and excite .others to the
fame praiseworthy exertions, and fay to themfelves--
"Go thou and do likewife." Another principle laid
d .wn by pailof Thers and thole writers who had been
allowed to be the heft judges of the condition of the
poor, in which he perfealy accorded, was that of
giving them.(ecur it y in theproperty they may acreare.
It had been thought by the promoters of tome friend-
ly focieties neceffary to induce their members to pay,
or rather to compel them to rave fomething out of
their earnings, but in that refprat he differed with
them, and did not wlfh to have any further inrerfe.
tence in the affairs OT the poor than could not be well
avoided. He eu not with to interfere with the eon.
ings of the poor, he did not with to meddle with the
economy of their families, nor with the made of
their expenditure; for though there are many 'per.
lons among the lower orders who earn confiderable
wages, and afterwards fpend them in public houfes,
he would not with to interfere with them, becaufe he
thought they were the heft di aributors of their owls
money, and by being left at liberty to do with it as
they liked, would be more eager to get more, which
operated as a conflant incentive cc indult! y. In that
refpeat, therefore, he differed from the principle of
:the Statute for Friendly Societies It was well known
that there have been feveral perfana in many .parts of
the country, who have maintained their families on
what others thought a mere pittance, and yet have
laved money. In fuch cafe, what is to be done 'vial
it ? Where were they, in the prefent flue of thing:,
to put it by way of fecurity ? If they kept it by them
in a trunk or a drawer, it remained wholly unpro.
dilative and inaltive, and perhaps in procefs of time,
before they could lay io out to way advantage, forte
evil difpoted perfan, either refiding in the houfe, or
in the immediate vicinity,rnight break open the h. ufe
nr the drawer in which it was depofited, and the
whole of their ravings might be loft in an hour of
abfence from home. They might perhaps put it into
the hands of fame tradefman to keep fur them, who
might afterwards become banktupt, or lend it to
fome country attorney, cot of whore hands they never
could get it again. Both there cafes be believed had
repeatedly happened, and many unfortunate odd-
pealing perfnns bad thus loft their little all, and
been ruined, for want of fume place of fafety in
which to confide their little treafure, earned by the
fweat of their brow, and gathered together by the
molt rigid and praifeworthy economy. To re-
medy this evil, Mr. Malthus, who had given the
rubjeft the deepell confideration, had propofed to
creel county banks for the put pole. In this point,
however, much as he refpealed that writer's opinions
in many refpeets, he differed with him on this head,
and thought that the divifion of fuch a bank into
many banks would prove injurious rather than bene-
ficial ; and to him there appeared to be no fealible
way but to eflablifir a graiol National Bank for to
laudable and important a purpefe. He hoped Gen-,
tletnen would not be alarmed at what he was pro-
poling ; he could affe, e them it would not be found
a matter of great cliflicith y, and that it might be
done at is expence. He would thereto. e pro-
pole, that there thould be eflablithed in the Metro.
polis a grand national lona, to ulach any perfnn
should be allowed to contribute even to Nall a tarn
as 2Cs. and not more than 51: a year, nor a larger
fum than 2001 in ail. That for loch a (urn as
they loan:Ob.:el, interest fhould be paid, and when
it amouo'ed to tos. (horrid then be remitted to the
• party. That there fhould he no (lamps neceffary,
nor any thing to pay ter the pillage of letters ;
and in allowing this, he eoulo afore the Houle,
and prove to them, (lat. it would be no injury
to the Revenoe. Thite piny. futons he Ihould of.
ter to the Houle in the reveral details of the
• Bill, and when he retletted on thc various advantages
which he had deferiaed as likely to refult from an
improve(' mode of education, from the relaxation in
tohfe o
vai
no;power
in a
otreS:.tatrledms,ehnets,
fla.ntdaf.icirdthet,rim, fromicii
I courfe et year., thole laws called the Poor Laws

I

„
crr pra y appear ; that is, there am:ld be
- ccaion for the ezeention of them. Not.
~...:•I:Anning all he had hitherto Hated, there yet re:
ruined, he laid, a good deal to be done, fur the Or-
pole of lUCCOltring thrife in need ; and it would be
neceffary to reflect, whether it was not poffibtt to
make a more equal diflribution of property than was
orAls done in the manner of railing and paying the
poor rate ? It would be found that the flatute 43
Elizabeth laid, that in every parilh the rate fhould he
railed according to the number of poor contained in
ft ; and if that could not in any one parilh be done,
thole who inhabited the adjoining parifh might be
rated fur that purpole. Thule rates had, however,
been always looked un as odious. Numberlefs ap•
peals had, from time to time, been brought where
Inch rates had been made on an adjoining county,
but the d,:cifions of the Juitices in the Quarter Sef-
{ions had uniformly been confirmed by Lord Mani-
field, and the other Learned Judges, as being confo-
mot to Cie letter and fpirir of that A& There were
cafes, he laid, in fotne parillres, in which the diftrefs
fo great, that there was no refuting thole rates ;
and he iritianced two, viz. Mile-end and Spitalfields,
where the poor live upon the poor, and where the
opulent perfons who employed thole poor people
lived in other parithes. This happened alto not to
be confined fulely to the Metropolis, but was actually
the cafe in many agricultural parifhes, which unquef-
tionably appeared more extraordinary. To remedy
this, however, he would propufe that there (hould be
a general teturn made by all overfeers, of the general
amount of the rates levied within the lag three years;
and if it proved that any parifh had railed double
the average rate of the county for the maintenance
of the poor in any one year, !Itch parilh fhould re-
ceive a reimburfement of to much from the county
rate. Initances of this kind had happened in the
counties of Middlefex and Leicefter ; and to effea
this deferable purpofe, he would propofe to make a
general county rate, and that every Seventh year the
parifh rate fhould be again returned, and the county
rate regulated by that. The greater part of the
county rates, he Paid, had generally fallen on the
landed property ; but that was not the intention of
the AR of Elizabeth, which exprefsly lays, that per-
fonal property fhould be equally liable : and to make
that intention more available, he would propofe that
all vifible property (hould be equally liable to pay ad
valorem, as far as it was known. Another principle
laid down by Mr. Malthus was—a but in recurring to
frequently to the authority of this able writer, (laid
be), I fhould mention that in paying attention to
what I have no doubt waa diftated by benevolence
in him, the Houle ought to put a guard on them.
(elves, lett they Puffer their bofoms to be Reeled
againft humanity. I don't mean to fpeak with the
fmallell difrelpea of that Gentleman ; but I have
Sound it neceffary mote than once to put myfelf on
my guard in this refpee.” Mr. Malthus, he laid,
bad told the public, in his very meritorious work on
this fubje&, that the greateft reftraint on the popula-
tion of the country was the operation of the Poor
Laws. The ftatute of Elizabeth dire.led that over-
leers &mild have a power to ere& cottages in each
parilh for the refidence of the poor ; and for fume
time after t!:c palling of that ttatute fuch cottages
bad been t The law Rill temained the fame
at this moment, but had for a great length of time
fallen into general difufe. He would propofe, there-
fore, to re-enad that part of it, and give a power to
overfeers to ere& cottages to the extent of a limited
funs, for the rdidence of fetch perfons as vtere really
entitled to receive parochial fupport, with provifions
which fhould guard effetually againft any perfons
being permitted to petrels loch cottages under any
falfe or fraudulent pretences, and to confine them
firiely to fuch as were really poor and entitled to re-
lief from that parifh. He would alto give a further
power to overfeers, with the confent of the parilh, ;a
purchafe land for the erection of loch cottages. Ano-
ther &Citable purpofe which he had in view was a
better contlitution of velities, which were at pre-
fent generally compofed of perfons who attend them
for the purp ,fe of wrangling and (hewing thei,:confe-
quence in the parifh, more than to forward and pro.
mote the public welfare. He would, therefore, pro-
pofe that vefiries fhould be obliged to meet once in
every month ; that the Miniller, if he were prefent,
fhould always prefide, and in his ablence that the fe-
nior and junior churchwarden fhould take the chair,
and in the abfence of all thofe, the parifhioner
deemed molt proper from property cr refpeetability
of charaler. He would alfo alter the mode of vot-
ing, and that every one prefent fhould have a vote,
which would prevent the proceedings of veftries be•
ing always ruled and governed by perfons of a
higher Ration than the genet ality who attend them.
By Mr. Gilbert's Aft, no perfon had a right to vote
who did not pay sl. a year to the poor rate. He
would, however, preppie, that every one (hould have
a vote according to hi; property, and that every
occupier of a houfe in the parifh fhould have his
name let down ; and by what he paid to the rate,
they would fo, 01 .t judgment of his property, with an
appeal to the lattices, in all cafes, where any one
thought himfell injured by the rate. He then adverted
to what he laid he thought one of the moll ?important
features of his fytlem, viz. the mode of adminif-
tering relief to the poor." He would propofe, that
henceforward it fhould be deemed a misfortune for
any one that was under the neceffity of having re-
courfe to parochial relief. It had hitherto happened
in many cafes, that fome families had lived more
comfortably, and more to their fatisfaCtion, who re-
ceived parochial relief, than thole who did not ; and
wheneverthatwasthe cale,it took away the Stimulus in
the father of fuch a family to exert himfelf effeeually
to maintain them without fuch atliftance, and there-
by added very confiderably to the Poor Rates in
every parilh that was hurthened with poor. He was
no friend, he laid, to the workhoufe lyflem, nor to
the expence of finding Stock for perfons to labour on.
fie would have the poor to labour, but not in work-
houfes. That fyftem flit took effect in the reign of
George I. and in its early Rages, it feemed to have
the etre& of leffenirg the Poor Rates; but that ap-
pearance was loon found to be fallacious, and thole
tclto favoured it were, in the end, convinced they had
Lamed a wrong notion. of them.. Workhoufes had,
for a great leny,th- of time, been fuppofed to be eco-
nomical, and Overfiers had thought it right to drive
perfons into the:-r, who fought relief frcm the Par ilh.
In doing this, however, they had gone on moll inju-
dicioully and extravagantly, for it had been proved
to a certainty, that thole who had bet n" kept within

thole Honfes were not maintained at lets than 7:I. a
year, whillt tae annual etpence of thofe who were
maintained out of them, d;d not amount to more
than 31.. . He fhould not, however, propole that
wnrkhcnfes thnuld be demolifh.;d nor new ere&ed,
but that they thould be made places of refidence and
reception for the old, the blind, the.lame and 'Aria,
and'he would put it in the power ofOverfecrs to put
pet Cons to board with their relations and neighbours
who might be inclined to receive them at a Itipulated
Turn, and that perfons fhould be entitled to relief
from the parifh, though they were in paffeffion of
goods of any k'nd to a certain amount. To illuf-
trate what he had laid as to the maintenance of per-
lot:3 in workhoufes, he thought it necelfary to Rate
that it had generally been conceived, that when many
perfons are to be maintained at the public expence,
it would be done cheaper by having them in one
family ; but that idea had been indifputably proved
to be erroneous, for the charge in that cafe amounted
to 181. a head annually : whereas in thole inflances
in which they bad been put out feparately in different
parts of the country, the annual expence was not
more than 31. or thereabouts. He was well aware
that, in what he had flitted to the Houk at fo much
length, he had produced nothing that was aenally
new—but be flattered himfelf that, from the atten-
tion and conlideration which he had long given to
this highly important fubjeet, he had been able to
place fome things in a•new point Of view, and with
the affißance of many able perfons who had favoured
him with, and would continue to lend him their aid,
he had the molt pleating and fatisfaelory hopes that
he thotild, if the Houle gave him leave to introduce
his Bill, be able to modify the Poor Laws in loch a
manner, as greatly to ameliorate the condition of
the poor, and at the fame time to leffen the expence
of their maintenance in fuch a degree, that in time
the Poor Laws would gradually difitppear. Some
perfons rrr;ght imagine he had been induced by a vi.
lion, that had long been before him, to flatter himfelf
with being able to elle& what fo many others had
attempted in vain. In his efforts to this deferable end
he had been greatly encouraged by the impt oved Rate
of fociety, and by giving to the lower claffes of the
community the benefits accruing from education—
he was Cure he fhould give them the enjoyment of a
tweet which hitherto they had never tailed. In the
relaxation of the Law of Settlement, he would rid
the community of much vexations and expenfive liti-
gation, and would give the poorer claffes much bet-
ter fecurity of being provided for. In cur, iiling the
workhoufe fyhem, he fhould give great relief to the
country, and at the fame time cafe it of an immenfe
expence—and in giving the Juftices a power of judg•
ing between the criminal and need-nous poor, and of
beltowing on the former a badge of difgrace, which
thould point them out to the public in the light they
deferved, he hoped he fhould effed the greaten ad-
vantages to the community at large. if this were an
Melon, it was a molt pleating and fatisfaetory one
to him. He thanked the Houle for the indulgence
they had (hewn, in lißening with Co much patience
and attention to the long llatement which he had been
under the neceffity of fubmitting to them. His only
with at prefent was, leave to bring in his Bill, and
that it thould go as fpecdily as polfible to a Commit-
tee, merely p o forma, to fili up the blanks—that it
thould then be printed, and fent to the feveral (tiar•
ter Seffions throughout the kingdom ; and after having
been duly confideced by a.l thofe who may be fup
poled to be belt acquainted with the fobjeet out of the
Houle, when the refult of their opinions was known
to the Houle, it would then be recommitted—and
from the united wifdom of the Hcufe, if the fyl•
tern did not appear to them too novel, he hoped the
Bill might be fo modified as tc receive the faniftion of
the Houle, and pars into a law in the courfe of the
prefent Seflion. He concluded by moving—
" That leave be given to he ing in a Bill for the Promotion and
I ncouragcmcnt of induitry among the Labouring Claffes of the
Community, and for the bvit:r Regitationa and Subfiftence of
the Mc.ff.toui Poor."

The Motion having been read from the Chair,
Mr. ROSE laid, he had liQened with the greateft
attention to the ftatement fo ably and eloquently fob-
milled to the confideration of the Houfe by the Hon.
Gentleman, and he thought nothing could be more
praifeworthy than his intentions, nor more honoura-
ble to his head and heart, than the fyltem, the out•
line of which met with his entire approbation, and for
which he was entitled to his warmeft thanks. It
leaned, however, to him, that there was an omiflion
of one article, viz. the employment of the poor, with-
out providing for which he was much afraid his ob-
ject could not be completely effected.
Mr. WHITBREAD faid, there would be a provi-
fion in the Bill for the employment of the poor, tho'
he had not particularly Qated it in his fpeech.
Mr. ROSE faid, he was glad to hear there would
be Inch a provilion ; and he thought it might be pro-
per, and very advantageous alt.°, to combine with it
the inftruetion of the poor in manufactures. It had,
in fome degree, been done in the county of Lincoln,
where fome Gentlemen had made the experiment ;
but it could never be brought to any %ado' end with-
out the encouragement of Gentlemen in the neigh•
bourlidod. He thought it might be neceffary to give
this meafure its full effect, to divide the Bill into two
or thtee, which might eafily be done. The Bill
might go out to the different Qstiarter Sefflons as it
was; and, when the Houfe refumed the confidera-
lion of it in a Committee, it might be divided as they
fhould think molt advifeable.

Mr. LEIGH KECKfpolie fhortly in approbation
of the plan.
Mr. N. CALVERT returned his warmell thanks
to his Honourable Friend for his great exertions on
this fubjed, and exprelfed his highefl approbation of
his plan, in which he thought there was a great deal
of good, and very little to find fault with.
Mr. ELLISON thought there was a great deal
to be done, before the fylkm in quellion could at all
be made feafible. He was fearful there was con-
tained in it a great deal of complex matter, which
might lead the Houle and the country into greater
embarrafFment than it is at prefenr, in confequence
of the poor laws. However, as it yeast° go into the
country for the conlideration of the Ju{lices, whole
experience unqueflionably enabled them to form a
jult opinion of it, he would not fay any thing in op-
rfnion to it at prefent. If, however, the cafe thould
not be decided with the utmoll caution, it might tend
t future errors, which it would not be cafy to really
or remove. He thought nothing more was necef-
fary on this head, than to fimplify the Statute of
Elizabeth, is which we had expel ince to g.) by and

to gait' ns ; and that he thought would be prefer-
able to going intn the wide field of inncvation and
unCertainry. Had the bill bratight in by the Rioht
Honourable Gentleman, no:v no more, "thole abilities
were univerfilly acknowledged to he of the troll fu-
perior clals, pa ffed int') a law, it would have produced
incalculable mifchiefs and mifery in the country.—
He gave the Honourable Gentleman gicat credit for
his exertions, and the candour and ability with which
be had brought lot ward his plan, but, he feared it
could not be made to effea what he teemed to ex-
pelfrom it.

Mr. SPENCER STA NHOPE Paid, he v.,as Pure if
the Hon. Gentleman wifned to have the opinions of
the County Magiarates on this very complex bull-
nefs, it would be -neceffary to fplit it into feveral
bills. Every one was acquainted with the general
hurry and bullle there is at the Q2arter Seal-ms, and
how imponible it would be for the Magiarates to
give fo voluminous a bill, as this mull neceffatily be,
a due confideration. He wifhed heartily that his
great effor s mig' t be crowned with fuccefs, and beg-
ged liave to return him his warmers thanks for the
very able and candid manner in which he had brought
it forward. He thought, however, that after he had
fubmitted his bill to the conf►dcration of the Houle,
he would himfelf move to have it divided.
Lord HOWICK Paid, he thought there was only
one fentiment in the Houfe as to the manner in which
this plan had been brought forward by his Honou-
rable Friend, and the pains and abilities he had fo
clearly (hewn he had devoted to it. He was fore it
was not the intention of his Honourable Friend, in
any manner, to prefs forward his Bill in a hafly way
—but it mull be clear to every one, that it ought not
to meet with any unneceffary delay. He thought the
courfe pointed out by his Honourable Friend was the
bell that could be ptirfued, viz. that it fhould fill be
circulated among the Magiftrates for their conlidera-
tion and opinion, then be recommitted, and pro-
ceeded upon as fpeedily as poflible. The Houle
might then confider it in the whole; and, if it thould
be thought more proper and advifable, they might
divide it. As to himfelf, he would, at that time,
exprefs no opinion at all on it. On a fubjeet of fuch
van importance and great variety of matter, doubts
mull neceffarily arife. As to the time of bringing in
the Bill, he fhould certainly defer to the judgment of
his Hon. Friend; hut he hoped it might be put in
fuch a train, that tome part of it at lean might be
difcuffed within as short a time as poffible.
Mr. STURGESS BOURNE concurred in opinion
with the Noble Lord who had juft fat down ; and
hoped the Honourable Gentleman would bring for-
ward his Bill fo early that it might be tranfmitted to
the feveral counties at the enfoing Aflizes, which
would be before the (Inane,. Sellons. He expreffed
his entire approbation of the plan, and his thanks for
the great exertions and abilities which the Honoura-
ble Gentleman bad difplayed in bringing it forward.
Mr. WHITBREAD laid, he hoped he Ihoold be
able to bring in his Bill on Monday nest.
Sir J. NEWPORT highly approved the plan, and
expreffed his hopes that it would lay the foundation
for the introduaion of a fimilar meafure for the bene-
fit of Ireland. He acknowledged that the Committee
which had been, as truly mentioned by the Hon. Ge-
ntleman, appointed to confider this matter with;refpeft
to Ireland, had (hewn themfelves very averfe from
the plan. A fort of fubnitute, had, however, taken
place in Ireland, by meting Houfes of Indunry, and
it had been found, that the expence had by no means
been fo great as was imagined : for, that in one of
thole, confining of idiots and lunatics, which were
rather more expenfive than the poor in general, the
entire expence of that innitution did not amount to
more than 71. a head. He thanked the Hon. Gen-
tleman for his meafure, and hoped it would be pro-
ceeded with, in as fpeedy a manner as the nature and
importance of it would admit of, and that it might
be followed by a fimilar meafure for Ireland.

Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST thought, that if
the Bill was not brought in before Monday next, it
could not be printed and circulated by the Monday
following, on which day fume of the approaching
affixes would commence. He was of opinion, there-
fore, that Government would do well to order a much
greater number of the Bill to be printed, than would
be neceffary to fend to the Quarter Seilions ; and
that thole should be tranfmitred as other Atts of
Parliament are, to the feveral Magi(hates at their
own hotifes, by which means they would have an
opportunity of giving the Bill their moll mature
confideration, and go to the Quarter Salons, each
of them much better prepared to commune with each
other on the fubjeet, and the refult of their confeder-
ation would more fpeedily be produced. He would
alto fuggeft, that if the whole of the Hon. Gentle-
man's plan fhould not meet with the approbation of
the Houfe, that he would Rill perfiß in bringing for-
ward fuch parts as might be thought proper to be
adopted.
Mr. WHITBREAD affured the Hon. Gentleman
and the Houle, that if any, the (mallet part of this
Bill, met with approbation, he should endeavour to
have fuch part paffed into a law.
The motion was then put, and leave given to brittg
in the Bill.

FINANCIAL RESPLUTIONS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved that the (aid Refolutions be now read a fe-
cond time.

Sir JAMES PULTENEY was aware that injury
would accrue to the Stockholders of the country by
interfering with the Sinking Fund. The benefit of
the Stockholder arifes from the quantity of Sinking
Fund brought into the market. In the year 1791,
the duce per cents reached 96. He was lorry to lay
that we could not equalize the Loan with the Sink-
ing Fund. The pref.:at debt, money capital, amount-
ed to 352,957,0001. the new debt was forty millions,
which, together, made upwards of 390 millions.—
He entirely difappruved of pledging the War Taxes.
He was for uniting the War Taxes and the Sinking
Fund, and ellablithing a Permanent Debt and a
Permanent Sinking Fund. If the War Taxes be
deduced from the debt, the debt would then be 291
millions. If to this be added the Sinking Fund he
propufed, the amount would he 14,700,0001. whereas
the Sinking Fund of the Noble Lord would amount
only to 13,000,0001. The Noble Lord's debt would
be 291,190,0001. whereas the debt would be 279 mil-
lions. He threw out thole fuggeflicns without pre7
tending to any extraordinary accuracy in the calcu-
lation, or method in the arrangement..
Mr. THORNIsON, from a compArVon the two

I

..
..

; •
i-fohle Lords' plans, was inclitted'tegie.etne entire
preference to that of the N. life Lord Petty)/ at that
T-T tide of the ,stife. The other 14 lr
;.hle'.ord ad Pro.
poled a Loan of bt:t eleven million:, hat he ad not
mentiered that the &ficit fh roll be furplied by an
additioriel taxation of no lets than t 4 million, a year.
He objected to the words "pr:forit fyllem" as ufed by
the Noble Lord. N.-fides, no lubtritote had been pro•
pelted by the N.ible Lord for the excalfes of the Sink,
log Fund. He di±-approved of a third plan that had
been firggefted as to 11;e Ctot^pageUf ihe Sin king Fund..
The Honourable Mern'aer adverted 1,1 the ribferva-
arms of the Gentlemen on the other fide, relative to
the borrowing of money on compr.und inter ell. He
begged thole Gentlemen fully to cunfi fer the (*.died,
and it would appear 'hat the taxes wl,ich the N.
Lord's fyflem enabled him to avoid impofing,
formed a laving that mere than counterbalanced the
difadvantage which the mode of borrowing nbjeded
to was likav to produce. With regard to the mil.
chiefs apprehended from the idea which this fyflem
involved, of legifl tting potietity, he deprecated
the notion that it was not lubjea to any al,eration
hereafter, if circumflances fhould appear to require
fuch alteration. After preffing the propriety, in
point of good faith and policy, of' always prefer ving
the principle and promotieg the progrefs of the Sink-
ing F.Jnc, the Hel; Member congratulated the
Houle and the Country upon the Qate of our re-
fources which the plan now under confideration pre-
fen:ed. For, notwithflanding all the petits we had
encoenteted, and all the expences we had incurred.
it appeared that, after payinA between twenty and
thirty millions for the intereff of our debt, we were
flill able, within about 2,5e0,0c01. to meet an annual
expenditure of nearly forty millions, Ihould it be
deemed expedient to apply the whole of the War
Taxes and the produce of our Sinking Fund to de.
fray the expence of the war. But even leaving the
Sinking Fund not only untouched but accumulating,
it was a fource of the higheti fatisfaelion to think,
that we had means within ourrelves amply fufficient
to meet all the increafed expence exiting out of the
difficulty of our fituation, while the enemy was only
able to HAM by oppreffion, impofition, and illufory
expedients in his own country, combined with con-
fifcations and military exactions in the territory of his
unfortunate neighbours. The Hcn. Member con-
cluded with expreffing his decided preference of the
fyftem propofed by the Noble Lord on the Treafury
Bench, to any and to all the plans that had been of-
fered from the other fide of the Houfe.
Mr. JOHNSTCNE thought the Noble Lord's
calculation of our expences extremely erroneous,
even as to the prefent year. For it appeared quite
probable that in the prefent fituation of the Continent,
Proflia mutt be altogether abandoned, or a much
larger amount of fubfidies would be required, than
the Noble Lord profeffed to have in contemplation.
Betides, there was a film of soo,ocol. due to the
India Company, which the Noble Lord omitted in
his ellimate. The Honourable Gentleman protefted
againft the idea that Minifters fhould take credit for
having had this fyflem of finance in contemplation,
fo far back as laft year, as in the fpeech at the be-
ginning of the Seflion, his Majefly expreffed his re-
gret at the necellity that exifted for additional burdens
on his people. Therefore it was manifelt that this
plan had but recently fprung up. To this compli-
cated fcheme the Hon. Gentleman recommended
preference of the fimple procefs of borrowing eleven
millions annually, and levying taxes only to pay the
intereft of Co much of that fum as exceeded the pre.
fent amount of the Sinking Fund, namely, for
2,5eca,c001. This prejed would, he contended, cc-
cation lefs taxation, and produce lets debt by forty
millions, than the fyftem propofed by the Noble Lord.
Mr. BANKES obferved that a radical error run
through 'he Speech of the tall Speaker, namely. that
the produce of the Sinking Fund fhould be applied
to the current expences of the year, and of courfe en-
tirely fufpended from its übjed. The confequence,
therefore, of the Honourable Member's projed would
be this, that inflead of tl.e public creditor being paid
off in 45 years, according to the principle of the
Sinking Fund, and the pledge of Parliament, the
debt to which this fund was applicable, would not,
fhould the war continue ten years, be difcharged in
lets than fifty-five years. The Hun. Gentleman era.
preffed his confidence in the difpolition of Mu-lifters
to ufe every predicable economy, and that no effort
would be left untried, to keep the expences within
the eftimare hated by ti e Noble Lord. Adverting
to the paradox of a national bankruptcy refulting
from the difcharge of the national debt, he thought
the apprehenfion chimerical,and deprecated the idea,
under any loch apprehenlion, rf withdrawing the
Sinking Fund from the object for which it was origi-
nally intlituted. The Hon. Gentleman fuggetled for
confederation, that it, in the courfe of the fums men-
tioned in the new fyflem, larger Supplementary
Loans fhould become neceffery, than the Noble Lord
had in view, a certain proportion of the percentage
fet apart for the War Loans, might be appropriated
to form a fund for the liquidation of fuch increafed
Supplementary Loans—for he taw no reaPin why
thefe War Loans Ihould be paid off fo much fooner
than Loans of any other defcription. The delay in
their payment weitild be pia/due-five of no material
inconvenience, and the approbation he recommended
would lead to prefent relief. In reviewing the leveret
War Taxes, and confidering which it would be molt
expedient to continue if neceffary, in the event of
peace, he was decidedly of opinion that the Pro-
perty Tax, which the Noble Lord profeffed his with
to repeal, was, of all others, the molt eligible to
continue. For this tax, with certain modifications,
including a more equitable diftribution, an advance
if requifite upon perfons of large fortunes, an ex-
emption altogether of (mall revenues in the reduelions
of charge, under certain circumliances, (truck him
to be the 'raft exceptionable tax that could be devil*.
ed. He was the more inclined to this opinion becaufe
he always preferred direct taxes to thole circuitnufly
levied, being firmly perfuaded that they were lets
oppretlive to the tubjeet arid more produdive to the
revenue. The Hon. Member, an the whole, preferred
the fyliem propofed by the Noble • Lord to any that
had been mentioned, for although he law tome dif.
ficulties in the former, be thought the latter calcu-
lated to create much treater.
Mr. JOHNSTONE, in explanation, Rated that he
meant only to have the interell on the part of the
eleven millions which he had mentioned, provided for
lout of the fonts applied in new purchafes by the Corn
I zniffioners for t co.:mina! the nuhlia diao

Mr. ROSE condemned, h Rrong terms, what be
denominated the anticipation of the War Taxes, and
c. mended that the debt f. r which it was propofed
to pledge the War Taxes would not be paia off in ie.
years ; as fuppofing the money to be borrowed when
the Funds were at 60, they would rife, in the event
of a peace, to 70, 80, or 90, and thus the debt, inftead
of being paid off and the War Taxes redeemed in t 4
years, would net be paid r.ff in leis than 16, tB, or 2 I
years. The War 'faxes alto mutt, in a great meafu:e,
ceate to be produaive at a pet iod of peace.
Mr. COR.RY thought the Right Hon. Gentleman
who had fpoke loft had fallen into a great millake
in what he had Rated relpeaing the deficit of the war
taxes in peace. The war taxes, in the prefent cafe,
meart nothing more than t' at the film of 21 millions
Mould be raifed. Parliament, it was evident, was
pledged to raife this money either from tea, tobacco,
fpitits, or any particular article, and if Parliament
was not fo pledged, the whle foundation of the
Right Honourable Gentleman's argument fell to the
ground.
hit. PERCEVAL cbferved that the taxes were
enumerated by name in the refolutions as the fecnrity
upon which the public creditor was to advance his
money, and yet it was laid that it was not meant that
each particular tax fhould be continued, bin that 21
millions fhould be railed by fame taxes or other. If
this was meant, why not exprefs it on the fate of the
tefolntian ? The fecond refolution was for repealing
the Income Tax, and yet it appeared that was not
' intended. Thus the Houfe were called upon to vote
the continuance of taxes which were to be repealed,
and to vote the repeal of others which were lobe con
tinned. Indeed the heft argument he had heard for
the fyftem was, that it was not to he sifted upon.—
There was in the plan a breach of the Sinking Funsi,
which was certainly unneceirary. Why not borrow
what was wanted in the nfual way, without entering
into any pledge refpeaintethe excels of the Sinking
Fund ? It would be faficient to refort to this prac-
tice when its necedity fhould be found unavoidable.
He laid nothing with the view of oppofition, but hoped
that the Noble Lord would be content with providing
for the prelent year only, and, following up the can-
did manner in which he had brought forward his
plan, allow Rill a longer time for its confederation
before Parliament was finally pledged to it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
maintained that the Refolutions contained no pledge
whatever for the continuance of any particular Tax.
The objea of the plan was to provide for the exigen-
cies of a protraaed war, and at the fame time by
ahflaining from impofing frefh taxes, to relieve the
country, to repair its ftrength and recruit its refources,
without its operation would provide the means of
reboring again to taxation, if that mutt be the cafe,
a refort which would fill remain, even fuppofing the
plan totally to fail. His Lordlltip entered into a
comparifon of the Plan he had propofed, and thofe
fuggefied on the other fide, and contended that his
Plan had this great advantage, that it would operate
to increafe the Sinking Fund, in a larger proportion
to the debt, up to a certain point when its exceiTes
were to be taken, whilft the plans propnfed on the
other fide would operate to increafe considerably the
debt, and leave the Sinking Fund as it now flood.—
He propofed, after a certain accumulation of the
Sinking Fund, to appropriate the exceffes—but they
would a:tack that Fund immediately. He remem
bered a story of a man who laid he had a arc me-
thod of curing fheep of all diforders, and that was
by cutting their throats, fo Gentlemen on the other
fide would get at the Sinking Fund by immediately
taking it, and this constituted the boasted fimplicity
of their plans. His plan, on the contrary, by the
proportionable magnitude of the Sinking Fund, would
enfure to the Stockholder a certain market for his
flock, and inked of mortgaging all the refources of
the country, as tome Honourable Gentlemen had
contended, there would, if it continued to operate,
be a furn of 25,000,0001. available for the fervice of
the country in the year 1822.
Mr. ROSE explained.
Lord CAS I' LEREAGH contended that the fyf-
tem before the Houfe was a much greater infrattion
of the Aft of 1786, than that which had been done
in tBo2, which had been alluded to in the courfe of
the Debate. After touching on feveral other points,
his Lordlhip obferved, that he would (peak more
fully on the fubjea next Monday, when the RciOlu•
lions which he had fubmitted to the Houk would be
under confider:o4m.
Mr. HUSKISSON ad"erted to an expreffion of
Mr. H.Thorntan's, that our great fault had been that
we had mit paid fafficient attention to the invigoration
of the Sinking Fund, and yet at the fame time de-
clared that the prefent fyltem met with his entire ap-
probation. Yet this would tend to weaken that fund
more titan any meafure that had been yet brought
before Parliament.
Mr. VANSITTART maintained that, by the re-
gular pregrels of the meafure, as laid down in the
tables, it was evident that it would be a conftant
(mune of fupply to that fund.
M,. CANNING tank* ved that be fhould referee
his oppolition till the bringing in of the Bills to be
founded on thofe reiolaoeos.
The queflion was then put, the refolutions were
agreed to, and a Bill or Bills ordered accordingly.—
The other Orders were then difpofed of, and the
Houit adjourned at half part two o'clock.

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY so.

PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK :
cotapis, for aeursey,644—..for February &rimed= TH.
BleNequerUs. yor to is •

The intended improvement in the fyllern of the
Poor Laws, was aft night ptopofid by Mt. WHIT-
MAD, in the Houfe of Commons, in one of the
cleaveli and moll able -fpeeches that has ever been
made cm fo complicated a Make. Should it only be
partially adopted, it will do 'such towArds removing
the vexations and inconvenience infepasuble from the
fyliem as it exits at this moment.

Foreign Journals, of one day's later date than
thofe from whick we gave fuch ample extraas on
Wednefday, have been received. Extraas from theft
Jcutnals arc given in a preceding Column. The fob

lowing Article, however, contains the molt recent
continental intelligence in Town:

" GOTTENBURGH, FEBRUARY 6.

" A Ruffian courier arrived here this afternoon, in
eleven days,from St. Peterfburgh be came acrofs the
gulph of Bothnia—an Englifh courier left Peternsurgh
at the fame time, but having taken another route, is

not yet arrived.
66 The lateil accounts from the armies in Poland
Rate, that the French have been moft roughly treated
in the late affairs by the Ruffians ; and that they have
(offered greatly by the weather and badnefs of the
roads, through which they have loft a confiderable
part of their field equipage. It is laid that Bona.
pane is heartily tired of his Poi& campaign, and of
being confined, as it were, fo far from home, where
his prefence begins to be neceffary. It is reported
Ithat General Dombrowiki has been killed.

" The Q2ehec frigate and the Fanny gun brig,
having landed the money with which they were
charged for the Emperor of Itoilia, will fail the firft
fair wind, and wi:l take fome merchant's (hips from
hence under their convoy."

Our Port•letters, to which we refer our Readers,
arc ilia filled with dreadful accounts of the late norm.

Tudtday evening, in confequence of a prefling or- '
der from the Admiralty, Vice-Admiral Sir JAMES
SAVMAREZ failed, with his divifion of the Channel
Fleet, from Torbay, to cruize off Brea, viz. Sao
JOSEF, SAINT Gsoaoi, PRINCE or- WILLIS, IWO-
MARCH, GIBRALTAR, Comoyaaoa, BARFLSUR, Low
DON, and PALL•S frigate.
His Majetty's fhip Ross, Captain Perms, re
mained at Torbay when our accounts came away,
but intended failing yefterday morning with the
Admiral's difpatches, &c. It was apprehended
that the French would avail themfelves of the
opportunity of our fquadrons being blown off
their coat, to attempt their efcape from their feveral
ports, in which cafe they might have done molt el-
fential injury to our trade. Our fquadrons are re-
ported to have fuffered much on the French Coafl
during the late [forms. The INDEFATIGABLE frigate
has arrived at Plymouth in a difmafted Rate, having
fprung her bowfprit, and carried away all her top-
malls, on the Costa of France. She reports, " that
the enemy's force in Brett confills of twelve fail of
the line, and four frigates, which were all in the
condition of failing at a moment's warning, and in
evident expectation of an opportunity." We trua
that the arrival of Sir James Saustartaz will confine
them to their inallivity Nate months longer.
It Teems now probable, that the repeated affertions
in the Foreign Journals of a milunderltanding hav-
ing taken place between the Ruffian and Ottoman
Courts, have not been without foundation. By pri•
vate letters from Lord Cotoamcwooo's fleet, we find,
that Sir SIDNEY SMITH, in his Majefly's fhip POMPLE,
80. together with Sir T. DUCKWORTH, in the ROYAL
GIORGI, I to, and Woossoa CASTLE, 98, Captain
BOYLE, had failed for the purpofe of going up the
Dardanelles, to join Admiral Louts's fquadron off
Confantinople. The pretence of a large Britifh
fquadron would, probably have no inconfiderable
weight in deciding the refolution of the Porte.
But Letters from Conflantinople, dated in the
beginning of December, are completely at variance
with the above flatements. The following is an ex.
trail from one of tl:efe communications :
" I am happy to inform you that the markets here
begin to improve, and ftrong hopes are entertained,
that ere long trade will go on in its ulta' way."
The Ellin MION frigate arrived at Conllantinople
the aI ft of November, and on the =Bth Admiral
Louts alfo arrived on board the CANOPUS. The
dreadful fire in that metropolis is Paid to have de-
flroyed upwards of 4000 houfes.
The Adeona, Captain Gusto, did not, as was at
firft Rated, run into Buenos Ayres I the misfortune
which befel her was of a more ferious nature, and
was as follows : She was laden at Table Bay (Cape
of Good Hope), and failed from thence for Buenos
Ayres the i ith of Odober, Sir DAVID BAIRD having
previoufly folicited a 'mirage in her for three Spanifh
Officers, who were on their parole at the Cape. On
the zad November The arrived at the River Plata, on
which day Captain GUNK, while at dinner, heard an
unufual naife on the deck, and on going up to learn
the caufe, was immediately (tabbed in the belly by one
of the Spanifh Offiurs. Thefe ungrateful paffengers
had diffeminated the feeds of discontent among the
crew, who were at that moment in a Rate of mutiny.
Captain Guam was carried below, and the Adeona
was taken poffeffinn of by the crew, and continued
tinder their controul thirty-eight hours, when the
Medufa frigate, Captain Bouvsair, hove in fight,
and chafed the Adeona; but before the Medufa could
come up, the mutineers ran her on chore near the
Ifland of Floros, on the Spartifh Main, took to the
boats and effected their efcape. The MEDUSA, in vain,
tried every means to get her the (bore, and was at
IA compelled to burn her, to prevent her from falling
into the hands of the enemy. -The flip and cargo
were worth upwards of arboool. and not more than
wool. of properly could be laved.
Sir Hosea Poanam attended at the Admiralty on
Wednefday. On his retiring from the Secretary's
room the Maribal of the Admiralty took him into
eußody, and he now remains upon his parole of ho-
, now, to appear when called for, to anfwer the charges
that utay.be brought againfl him.
CITY BUSlNESS.—Yeaerday a Court of Common
Council Was held at Guildhall, at which the LORD
MAYO! premed a letter which he had received from
Sir Jana STUART, K. B. in anfwer to his LordThip's
letter, inclofing the thanks of the Court, &c. voted to
him, for his fervices on the Plains of laida, which
waq read and ordered to be entered on the Journals.
—The Court agreed to petition the Houfe of Com-
mons for leave to bring in a Bill for confclidating the
feveral Laws for regulating the Coal Trade.—A Re-
port from the Committee of City Lands, for entering
into a treaty, with, and letting the (cite of ground
whereon Blackwell Hall (lands, to the Governors of
the London Inftitution, was read, and referred back
to the Committee to treat with the Governors for the
fame.—A Report from the Committee of Lands, re-
commending rite purchafe of an eßate in Long-lane,
Smithfield, for the purpofe of widening and improving
the fame, was read, and, after Tome oppolition, was
agreed to.