Star.
London, England, 1831-04-15 00:00:00

LAWS AMENDMENT.

Mr. CAMPBELL said, he meant to ask leave to bring in four bills
fir the amendment of the law of real property, of inheritance and dower,
founded on the recommendation of the tommon law commission. As
the house was already acquainted with the recommendation of the com-
missioners, he should not occupy their time by any length of explana-
tion. The honourable gentleman moved for leave to bring in a bill to
amend the law of inheritance and descent, and to allow parents to suc-
ceed as heirs to their children, and collateral relatives to succeed as heirs
to each other, though of the half-blood; and a bill to amend the law
respecting dowry and courtesy; and a bill to abolish fines and rear-
veries, and to substitute other assurances in lieu thereof; and a bill to I
amend the law regarding prescription and limitation of action, respecting
real property.
Sir E. SUGDEN seconded the motion. He thought some of the
evils the bills were intended to remedy called for the immediate appli-
cation of that remedy ; but there were other of their provisions that re-
quired greater consideration.
Sir R. PEEL said the house last year passed a bill to regulate the
fees of officers in the superior courts of justice. - He hoped whenever
officers where appointed, the public would derive the advantage of the
compensation allowed to existing of cers4 (Hear.)
Sir CHARLES WETHERELL thought expense should be abated,
and circuitous forms changed ; but practices long established should nut
be al:ered without necessity and due consideration.
Mr. CRAMPTON (Solicitor-General for Ireland) said the object of
the bill was to get rid of useless forms, and to increase the security of
legal rights, in which be was disposed sincerely to concur.
Mr. O'CONNELL made a few remarks, in which he expressed his
unqualified approbation of the proposed registry bill.
Mr. CAMPBELL replied, in the course of which he said, that he
was determined in not giving precedency to Vie slave question, hut to
persevere in pressing on the registry bill to a second reading to-morrow
(this day.)
Mr. K. DOUGLAS put a question to ministers, to know how they
meant to act.

Lotd ALTHORP, in answer, said, it was his intention to use all his
influence to persuade the bon. member (Mr. Campbell) to give prece-
dence to the slave question.
Mr. K. DOUGLAS was not satisfied with that reply, but wished for
a specific answer, whether or not the slave question might be expected
to come on first on the following day.
Lord ALTHORP said, that although he held the official situation
in that house, he had no power to enforce any alteration in the orders
of the house.

A long conversation ensued, after which tile hon. member (Mr.
Campbell) yielded the point.
Lord ALT HORP said that it was the intention of Government to
cnaourage the Registry Bill, and give it their support.
The Registry Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be read
a second time on Wednesday next.
On the Civil List Bin being moved to be read a third time—

Mr. GOI LBURN made a few observations, objecting to the forms.
tion of the present bill as being totally different from any other Civil
List that had been brought forward. To furnish a few instances of
the want of simplicity in the present arrangement, of the 4,5001. charged
for the spore and encouraging the breed of horses, 2,4001. were to be
charged on the Civil List, 2201. on the Consolidated Fund, and 1,8001.
to be submitted to a Committee of Supply. The public works were
partly referred to a Committee of Supply, partly to the Consolidated
Fund; the Charities were divided between the Civil List, the Com-
mittee of Supply, and the Consolidated Fund. These and other in-
stances which he might adduce, proved that it would be as erroneous to
suppose the present Civil List more simple than his own, as it would be
to suppose it more economical.
Mr. HUME could not conceive bow the right hon. gent. who, in
November, had presented to them such a confused mass of papers, could
stand up and animadvert on the clear and simplified Bill now before the
house. He proceeded to pass in review the different classes of the for-
mer Civil List. In the Household salaries, the separations now made
had simplified the accounts, and put the expenses of the Crown in their
true light. In the next class, the Charities, he would even have gone
farther than ministers had done, and removed it entirely, as they had no
connection with his Majesty, and served only to encourage applicants. He
came to the pensions; these were entirely ministerial, and he objected even
to the present arrangement. In the Committee, being left in a miserable
minority of one vote besides his own. he bad not persevered in his oppo.
sition ; but he should that night put his opinion on record on the sub-
jeer, by moving that the Civil List be diminished by their entire
amount. In the sixth class of the right hon., gentleman's civil list
there appeared for diplomatic and other expenses the extravagant charge
of 140,0001. These expenses were now open to the investigation of the
House. The eighth item, containing the salaries of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer and others, had been separated from the civil list, and
curtailed. He felt confident that in the 106,0001. for Irish accounts,
large reductions would be made by the committee, as also in the Scotch
rivesiess, in which, indeed, curtailments had already taken plus. Thus,
in consequence of the former ministers losing their places, the civil list

had been reduced to 510,0001. leaving the other items to the considera-
tion of a committee, to the great bcr.etit of the nation, and the relief of
the crown from much unmerited obloquy. The tight hon. gentleman
had doled out some lamentations with respect to the sports and the
breed of homes. lic (Mr. Hume) trusted the country gentlemen, if
they wished their sports to be encouraged, would have spirit enough to
charge the encouragement on their own pockets, and not on the public,
in the present dkressed times.
Mr. ()MILBURN had merely said that dividing the hems was
not a simplification.
Mr. HUME was glad to have this tacit admission of the usefulness
of the item. lie would add another word, since they were now all
unanimous.

Mr. GOULDUR N explained.
Lord ALTHtiRP said, the Right Honourable Gentleman, in
citing a few instances against the simplicity of the present plan, had
passed over the great number of rectifications made in the former
Civil List. (Hear, bear.) For instance, on coming into office he
bad imagined his salary to be only 3,0001. and was somewhat sur-
prised on discovering a separate item, which carried it to 5,b001.
—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The division which the Right Hon.
Gentlemen complained of under the head of sports, arose from the
plates run for in England being retained in the civil list, while those
run for in Sco'lnnd and Ireland were excluded. If the House did not
think this division a simplification they would be at liberty to alter it,
whereas under the former arrangement alteration was out of their power.
The charities expended in England had, in like manner, been alone re-
tained in the civil list. With respect to the public works, they had
been entirely excluded. Notwithstanding, therefore, the objections of
the right hon. gentleman. he could not help thinking the civil list had
been greatly simplified. (Hear.)
Mr. GOULDURN said, that the misapprehension of the noble lord
with respect to his salary, must have arisen not from any want of con-
solidation in the former Arrangement, but from his not knowing that be
held two separate offices, and was a Lord of the Treasury, besides being
Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY said, that before the present separations, the
rxpcnditure of the Crown had been greatly exaggerated in public
opinion.
Air. COURTENAY could see neither simplification or reduction in
the present plan.
Mr. MABERLY would ask the Hon. Member whether the separa-
tion of 400,0001. from the Civil List, and which was now subject to the
investigation of the house, was no improvement ? Whether there had
been no reduction in the pensions ? He had in the Committee proposed
some further retrenchments ; but these be would not think of pressing
on the house. And had the present Government required an addition
of 200,0001. considering how nobly they had redeemed their pledges,
and the great things they were effecting, he should have thought it his
duty to support them.
The bill was then read a third time. Also a clause to be added, by
way of rider, separating the diplomatic expenses and the ocher charges
from the civil list.
31r. COURTENAY proposed as an amendment, that divers items
which he specified, separated from the civil liar, should be defrayed in
the course of the session from the consolidated fund or otherwise, and
that words to that effect he inserted in the clause.

Mr. D. W. HARVEY merely rose to guard against being thought
to acquiesce in the non•-surrender of the Duchies of Lancaster and Corn-
wall. In his motion on the Crown Revenues, which he intended to
renew, these Duchies would be eonmised.
Col. DAVIES regretted that the pensions should be left in their pre-
sent obnoxious state.—Dlotion agreed to.
Mr. HUME said, he proposed to have the statement as to pensions
struck out of the schedule, in order to make the bill consistent. The
amount was 510,0001. the amount of pensions was 76,0001; now, as
the bill professed to maintain the honour and dignity of the Crown—
and as the pensions did neither the one nor the other—he thought they
ought to transfer the pensions, and leave the amount 435,0001. This
he considered would be more nearly effecting what the bill professed
to accomplish. As to the Pension List, there were names on it that
ought never to have appeared there. Let them hear what had been
granted in pensions during the reign of George IV. only.
For England the sum was £896,000
For Ireland 694,000
For Scotland

Total... ..... ..... ..1,939,000
Thus, in addition to all the debt with which they were burdened,
within so short a period had two millions been " thrown to the dogs."
Not one pension in ten, he ventured to say had been deserved. Gentle-
men might say this Bill only ;panted 76,0001. a-year for pensions; but
let it be borne in mind that the public were burdened with between six
and seven millions a-year of one sort or another. The system of grant-
ing pensions ought to be wholly revised; according to the present
system, many incompetent persons were placed in situations only as an
apology for superannuating t,r pensioning them at the first opportunity.
Disapproving of the system, and considering that the fixing of pensions
on this Dill was inconsistent with it, he moved that the sum of 435,0001.
instead of 510,0001. be substituted.

Mr. HUNT seconded the amendment, not only from principle, but
in compliance with the prayer of about sixty petitions that he had pre-
sented on the subject. They justly declared, that no pensions ought
to be granted, except for well known and public services. He not only
seconded the amendment, but he should divide the house on it—for he
should never sanction what, out of doors, were callzd sham debates.
Lord ALTHORP regretted, that it should have been dcemed re-
quisite to move this amentment. The amount for pensions, be it re.
membered, was not now one-half of what it had been, and he trusted
that was pretty pod proof of the dispositions of Ministers on the subject.
Mr. Alderman WOOD said he must support the amendment • he
did so reluctantly, because he considered the country much indebted to
the present Ministers; but he could not otherwise act, when be recol-
lected what were the distresses of the people. Only a few days ago sp.
plicationa had been made to him for 300 summonses on account of
rates—every person so summoned he doubted not being quite as wor-
thy of the pensions towards which they had to pay as the individuals
enjoying them.
Mr. HARVEY said he could not support the amendment, because
he thougnt the crown ought to have the power of rewarding services in-
dependently of that House; if it were otherwise, if the pensions were
to be controuled by that House, to what contests would that give rise.

Mr. WARBURTt fbi said, if they were not to have such control,
why were they termed the " Guardians of the public purse." To urge
to the contrary, if it were not a libel, was the greatest reflection that
had ever been made on that House.

Colonel SIBTHORP supported the amendment.
The Gallery was then clearvd for a division. The numbers were—
For the amendment ... .. ... 17
Against it .. ... ... ..72
.. . . . .

Majority against it ... —56
Mr. HUME, on our re.admission into the Gallery, was complaining
of the bill, particularly the hems making up the incomes of the Duke of
Cumberland, the Duke of Sussex, &c. It had been over and over again
resolved to bring back salaries, owing to the change In the currency,
to what they were previously to the additions been made. Some of the
Ministers' salaries had been reduced, and reductions had taken place
in various departments; and why not reduce the salaries of the
Royal Dukes five thousand pounds each ? The example would be
still more valuable than the sums saved. By enforcing reduc-
tions of their establishments, the effect would be to induce others who
had aped to live as liberally as royalty, to curtail their establishments.
Society had got into a most unnatural state, one class aping the class
above it ; so that individuals had too often " got out at elbows" in con-
sequence of the pernicious examples every where surrounding them.
As reform was the order of the day, he thought they could not do better
than endeavour to promote economical reform. He concluded with
moving, by way of amendment, reductions of 60001. each.
Lord ALTHORP said he did not well see how the House could
acquiesce in the present amendments, the income having been granted
by way of annuity, and by Act of Parliament.
Sir 0. IVARRENDER raid he could not agree to the proposed
reduction.