Star.
London, England, 1831-08-20 00:00:00

the election writ. He said his name was John Moody, and
was mayor and returning officer for Grimsby. He received
the precept for the election from the Sheriff of Lincoln on
August 5, and gave a receipt for it. He made proclama-
tion for the election on the next day, and the election took
place on Wednesday, the 10th of August, and cloud at
eight or nine o'clock the same evening. The indenture
respecting the election was completed that evening, and
was handed by him to the Town Clerk in the
usual way, for him to transmit it to the High She-
riff. Was not sure that he receictd any instructions
from the High Sheriff to make the return himself. 11,
heard nothing of the matter afterwards ettill he was waited
upon by the officers of the House of Conmons. He took
it for granted that the Town Clerk, ohn ear the legal ad-
viser of the Mayor, would have dune all that was reeess:,ry.
The Town Clerk, whose name sets Burke, was at Grimsby.
Did not know if he acted as the agent of either of the par.
ties concerned in the election. Ile voted for the Blue rercy.
The Town Clerk said that it was owing to a pressure of
business in his office that he neglected sending the writ to
the Sheriff

Sir G. CLERK thought the Mayor of Grimsby was not
woolly blameless, and therefore he should move that he he
called in and admonished by the Speaker. He should fol-
low thie motion up, by movinz that the Town Clerk do
attend at the bar. _

Sir T. FREMANTLE thought it would be unadviaable
to blame the Mayor, mail they had first aseertatained what
w:s really the conduct of tile Town Clerk.
Mr. TENNYSON hoped the house would pause before
they cast a stigma on the Mayor, who seemed to have done
everything usual fur the returning officer of the borough in
question to do. Heals° bore testimony to the high respects.
bility of the Town Clerk.
fir. C. WYNN thought that, before the mayor ww. ad-
monished, the ►own clerk ought to be brought to the bar of
the house. He moved therefore that the mayor of Grimsby
be ordered to attend at the bar of this house on Tuesday next
After an observation front Lord Althorp, the motion was
agreed to.
Upon the voodoo of Sir G. CLERK, the town clerk of
Grimsby wen also ordered to a; tend on the same day.
Mr. TENNYSON. in reply to Mr. IL Hughes, said ,
that he wouh.l make inquiry into the sale of certain stores at
Portsmou,lt.

REFORM BILL.
The house resolved fuel, Into a committee upon the
micro' bill.

Lord A LTHORP said that, when the amendment of the
ruble lord (Chandoe) was agreed to last night, h.: under.
!Wild the noble lord to eonfiue his amendment to tenant. of
will of lands, and not to extei.d it to tenants at will in
bowel.. He (Lord Althorp) iatended to move as an 'mend.
meat. giving a vote to the person letting this property,
if he held the property under a lease of 20 years, and pro.
vi.l.d also that Itc obtained a profi. rent of 501. a-year, and
that he was in possession of the property for 12 months, from
the 30th of November. The noble lord moved an amend.
Melit to that effect.

Colonel SIBTHORPE claimed the advantage of having
been the first mover of the amendment agreed to the preced-
ing night.
A short conversation took place between Lord Althorp,
Sir G. Clerk, Mr. Estcourt, and the Attorney-General ela-
tive to the operation of the proposed clause upon persons
holding leasehold property of • certain amount.
Co!ontl WOOD complained of the necessity of voters
regi,tering votes tinder the pro, osed alteration made by the
noble lord.
lord ALTHORP, in reply to Mr. C. Ptusax, said that
the cluuse, as amended by him, would include persons hold.
ing a house and land, or houses only.
Sir C. WE TH ERELL did not exactly understand the ,
purpose of the amendment proposal by the noble lord, and
puricularly alluded to the registration part of it.
Sir .1. SCAR LETT also adverted to the 20 years' term
in this clause. and asked for explanations.
Lord A LTHORP, in the course of a technical reply, res.
peeling registration, took occasion to say that he could not
foresee when the ft form bill would pass. (A laugh.)
Sir J. SCARCE:TT never knew a bill more open to cavil
than the one now befote the house.

After a few words from Lord AL:Hoar,
Colonel WOtiD begged that the registration clause should
not be discussed then. When it did come before the house,
he would show that the registration of votes would be pro-
eiuctive of great expense.
After a few observations from Mr. Praed, Lord Althorp,
51r. Iteni.on, thr. Bating, Sir 0. Warrender, and Mr.
Ctoker, the verbal amendments were agreed to.
Lord ALTHORP then proposal certain amendments in
clause 16. The question was ooe of law,with which be did not
feel competent to grapple, but he thought that the occupy-
ing tenant had a right to vote if the lease was of a compe-
tent value, and held for a term of yean.

After some remarks from Sir J. Scarlett, the Attorney.
General, Sir C. Wetherell, and Lord Althoip,
Mt. C. FERGUSSON approved of the amendment,
which was agreed to, and stands part of the clause.
It was then proposed, that clause 10 stand part of the bill.
Nlr. DLNISON inquired if the payment of a rent of 601.
a.year would entitle the party to a vote ?
Lord ALTHOIhP said, that his opinion was, that any
person who occupied a house Lifland at 601. a.year rent should
have a vote, and the queition was decided by the Committee.
Air. O'Connell, Sir J. Scarlett, and Lord Abhor') made •
few observations.

Mr. D. GILBERT mid that he felt it his duty to move
an amendment to the clam, with a view to protect existing
rights. If the amendment was not acceded to, he appre-
hended great injury to the landed interests. He moved to
r...striet she rlgh, of voting on the qualification of forty shil-
ling freeholds to persons seised of an interest of inhe-
ritance,

Lord A LTHORP considtred the amendment of the hon.
genet:man entitled to the consideration of the Committee.
After a few words from 3lr. Donde' and Mr. Campbell.
Mr. BARING said that, under the clause, he could cre-
ate, on his own property in the county of IVilts. by an she-
raticn in the leaser, without impairing the interests of the
the tenants, 200 voters, and he was sure that it was a prin-
ciple that would be adopted throughout England, if not
altered. He approved of the amendment.
Mr. C. FRILOUSSON said that he thought the amend-
ment should be adopted, to prevent abuse, and unless some-
thing of the kind was agreed to, the greatest abuses would
grow up. He trusted that the hon. member would persevere
In his amendment.
Lord ALTHORP had not the slightest objection to the
lamendment, (cheers.); but he wished the hon. member
would withdraw it for the present, and he (Lord Althorp)
would undertake that a similar clause should be prepared,
and added to the bill when a report was brought up.
After a conversation between Lord Milton, Mr. C. Per-
gussets, Mr. C. Wynn, and Mr. Wilke, the amendment
was a ithdrawn.

Mr. KNIGHT contended that the claws was highly ob-
jectionable, and ought to be reprinted before the commit-
tee was called upon to adopt it.
After a few remarks from Mr. Serjeant Wilds, the At.
toroey-General and Lord Althorp,
Mr. BARING said that it was of the highest constitn-
donal importance that the clause should be clear and
gible, as the lists of electors were to be made out by pariah
officers; and as there appeared to be so much difficulty on
the part of the learned members of the committee to under-
stand It, he thought that the clause ought to be rendered
most intelligible. If he thought that he would be supported
in an amendment, he would get rid of such an antiquated
patch-work clause, by merely the substitution of plain lan-
guage. He entered his.protest against the whole clause. as
likely to increase the county expenses, open the gates to
fraud, and throwing the whole power of the county into the
bands of country summits.
Lord ALTHORP said if the Government had adopted
the opinion of the Hon. Member, they would have experi-
enced greater opposition than they had to the bill. He
thought that there would be no difficulty iq arranging and
giving the return under the clause, as the parish officers
were not so ignorant as the Hon. Member believed.
Mr. HUNT observed that there was a system more simple
than that proposed by the Hon. Member for Thetford. It
was the system which was practised to Westminster and
Southwark, namely, that every householder paying taxes
should be entitled to vote. lie was quite sure that ulti.
mately the system of the ballot would be adopted. Of
this he was eonvlmed from the observations of the Noble

to,ia (Altharp) last night, wbo sar;4lt—batt6t it-e1147/i
votes to tenants at will would make them dependent on their
' landlords. Nothing could destroy the undue influence of the
landlord but the ballot.
Mr. 8. WORTLEY suggested the postponement of the
lolaus. It was unreasonable to propose to the Homo to
sires to it without further consideration.
' lEr B. EILIODEN urged the propriety of printing this
clause before it was *gored to. It was impossible for the
House to Judie of its and in Its present state.
Lord ALTUORP observed that the bill should be re

printed after it wu reported, when any membcr might pro-
pose what amendment he pleased to any clause.
Mr. DARING objected to the whole clause, because it
might be altered and simplified without affecting the prop:a-
dore of demomatical and aristocratical interests in the coun-
as. The county right of voting might be made se simple
the borough right of voting.
After some desultory observations, the clause was
agreed to.

—Clause 17 was then agreed to, after a few observation by
Sir E. SUODEN and the ATTORNEY-GENERAL,
Le•rd ALTHORP then proposed the consideration of
clause 0, which had been postponed. This clause proposes
to give to the Sheriff's of the Counties the,pppointment of the
returning officers in all the new boroughs within their
respective counties.
hir. MACKINNON rose to propose an amendment to
this clause, but was informed that the proper occasion for
moving his amendment was not yet come.
The CHaIRMAY then proceeded to teed the clause until
he came to that part which provided that certain officers
therein named should be the returning officers In their res-
pective boroughs.
Mr. W YNN wished to know how the new returning ofo-
- would be remunerated ? At present the sheriffs and
under sheriff, were liable to severe penalties for taking any
fee for making returns.
Lotd A LTHORP observed, that it was not intended to
give them any remuneration: the election would not last
long, and barristers would give them assistance.
Mr. ROSS observed that though at present no compensa-
tion was given to returning officers in borough's for making
the returns, still lhoi,e officers held some lucrative situations
by virtue of their offices, which could not be the case with
the returning officers in the new boroughs. He therefore
thought that some remuneration should be made to the
latter.

Sir J. WROTTESLEY did not see why the returning
officers for the new berotii;it should not perform such du.
ties gratuitously.
Sir C. W'ETIIEItELL rot being • friend to the Bill,
begged to look at the clause with a malignant eye :--
(laughter ) In the old boroughs, the retuning officers
were obliged to make the taunts ; but what would be the
consequence, if the persons named by the sheriffs should
decline to discharge the duties of returning officers. He
thought that an astringent clause should be introduced, to
compel those officers to perform their duty. Now be
thought that there might be some difficulty in finding re.
turning officals in some places, such as Ely Rents and
Saffron Bill :—(laughter.) He doubted If proper officers
could be found in those places ; perhaps it was better to
adjourn this clause again; if any person moved an ad-
journment, he should second it. He certainly did not ap-
prove of giving the appointment to the Shoal's.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended that any pet-
son appointed by the sheriff as returning officer, according
to the pros isions of this clause, would be obliged to perform
that duty ; or if he should neglect it, he would be liable to
be indicted, or brought to the bar of that house. Whoever
was declared by the law to be the returning officer was
bound to discharge the duties of that office. So was the
person who should be appointed by the sheriff.
Sir C. WETHRRELL contended that the sheriff could
not compel coy person to discharge the duties of returning
officer. Parish and corporate officers were obliged to dis-
charge their duties by the common law ; but unless there
was a compulsory provision in this clause, the nominees of
sheriffs could not be compelled to act as returning officers.
Unless the clause was so altered as to provide for this defect,
he would oppose it.
filr. CA itIPBELL coincided in the construction put on
the clause by the Attorney. General.
After a few words from Sir G. Clerk, Lord Alehorp, and
Mr. Wason,
Sir R. PEuL thought that there was a distinction between
the returning officers who held offices in boroughs and those
who should be appointed by the Sheriffs.
Mr. Serjeant WILDE would agree with the right lion.
baronet that it wee an extraordinary power to give to the
Sheriffs the appointment of returning officers; at the same
time he woull say, that if such appointment was given to
the Shetiffs, the officers so appointed would be liable to
penalties, if they neglected to discharge their duties. The
question was, would this clause effect the object which it
was intended to accomplish ? and for his part he could rot
see that the power of appointing returning officers could he
placed in better or mote respectable hands than those of the
Sheriff. (Hear, her.)
Sir C. WETHERELL commeoted at some length upon
what had fallen from the honourable and learned Serjeant,
and contended that the sheriffs would not be as amenable to
legal proceedings as other persons. He therefore thought
that sheriffs were unfit persons to appoint returning officers.
Mr. CARTER observed .that the statute of Elizabeth
with respect to the appointment of overseas got rid of the
objection. That statute, though not in express words, ens.
bled churchwardens (*appoint overseers.
Sir E. B. SUDDEN said that all the improvements made
in the bill emanated hem that side of the house. (Hear,
bear.) He thought that the obligations and duties of the
returning officers ought to be clearly defined, inasmuch as
the non-perfortmusee of the duties of the office would incur
serious penalties. It was hardly possible to tell w: at the
effect of this power to the sheriff would be. The noble
lord had pprehended that sheriffs might exercise an influ-
ence over elections,and he therefore provided that no sheriff
should offer himselfu a representative dill* place for which
be was sherilL This would show that the noble lord had
some doubts respecting the fitness of the sheriff. The noble
lord should look whether some other public officers could not
be found to discharge the duties of returning officers.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL supported the prudence
of placing the power of appointing the returning officers in
the bands of the Shell&

Sir R. PEEL thought that placing such a power in the
hands of a Sherif, would be most unwise. The Right
Honourable Hemet pointed out the abuses that would arise
from such • nomination, and complained of the indefinite
manner in which the clause was framed. He suggested that
some other arrangement for the discharge of the great duties
of returning officers might be devised.
Mr. CRAMPTON contended that the person nominated
by the Sheriff would be bound to act as returning officer,
according to the provisions of the bill, or else submit to the
penalties mentioned in the clause.
Mr. G. BANKES observed that the nomination might
continue for life as wen as for a single year. This was an
additional objection. The nominations would be made by
the Sub sheriffs, and the result would be that the office of
returning officers would fall into the hands of attorneys, ar.d
he thetetore thought that some further consideration ought
Is be given to a clause so important in its object.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHkQUER agreed,
that it was not advisable to place a high responsible power in
the herds of one individual. His Majesty's ministers had
I considered the matter duly, and upon the fullest deliberation
they were of opinion, that the High Sheriff was the fittest
to entrust with the power of nominating to this office.
Tbsperson
Sheriff was an annual officer, and the probabilities
of abuse consequently became the more remote. Some per.
son must take the office upon him, and then the quest on
was, could a more respectable person be found fee it than the
High Sheriff? It had been said that no person would under.
take an office without emolument, as would be thecase with
respect to the returning officer; but In this opinion be yield
not agree ; for, on the contrary, he thought that an office
which conferred distinction upon the individual who held it
would remain unfilled. The Shelf' was a peewit resident
in the county, and therefore as likely as his Sub-sheriff to
know who were and who were not fit persons to nominate to
the office.
Mr. C. W. WYNN observed upon the absence of all
provision for the due performing of the important duties of
the returning officer. The same cheek that eziated in the
choice of Sheriffs might be adopted. The names of three
persons might be returned, and the Sheriff would then have
the option of making his selection.
Mr. 3IACKINNON contended that his arguments re-
mained unanswered.
After a few words semis the table from Laid Altharp,
Mr. Mackinnon, Dlr. Prised, and Sir C. Wetherell,
Mr. HUNT observed that the power of appointing return. I
ing (Seers for the three new metropolitan dialttoto oollot moll
to be entrusted to the Sheriff.
After an observation from Mr. 0. Roe, Mr. Weal, and
Sir. C. Wynn.
The blank was then filled up with the words two months.
The various ether blanks ft the agape were ask ftllkititp4
Lord ALTHORP, in reply to thil M igg •
said that on to-morrow be proposed to go
Is, 19, and 20, but not 10 much eidoseng' .1"r
After a short conversation between Waal WAG, tyltil
Lord ALTROSP respecting the registration arise (the 9th
we believe), the claw la which blanks bll4lllo4illil
up wee agreed to. 'it - •
Mr. PRAM? suggested that the cessiderala As
111th clause should he postponed. • -
Lord A LTHORP saw nospxxl ground for net )htihriPt
On to-morrow.

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