Star.
London, England, 1805-03-05 00:00:00

HOILSII TAX.

- Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of
the Horfe Duty Bill. The refOntions were read and
agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be read a
. third time tomorrow.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
then laid, that there was one Rep which was necef-
fary that he flimild take in point of form, on account
: of the impolfibility of dividing the Alf into two parts,
which he had mentioned on a former night that he
• bad difcovered. He muff, on this account, be under
the neceflity of ilitroducing a new Bill, for the par.
pore of levying the Tar upon Horfes to be employed
in purpofe► i f Hufbandry. He would therefore fhb-
mit it to the candour of Gentlemen who had made
fome objection to the railing ot.the additional duty
on that dercription of Horfes as fpecificd in the ori-
ginal Bill, whither it would not be proper that the
• Bill ibouhl be paired on• as far as the Rage which it
' bad reached in the original Bill, without any difcuf-
fion. He Ihould now, without further obfervation, '
move, 64 That leave be given to bring in a Bill for
• railing an Additional Duty on Hodes to be employed
• iu purpofes of Hufbandry."—Ordered.
Tire sforiav BILL.

Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of
the above-mentioned BilL After .the amendments
were read, and agreed to,
• The SECRETARY at WAR Laid a few words
with a view to fatisfy the mind of a Gallant Officer
oppotits him (General Fitzpatrickj, with refpea to
the amendments which that Honourable Member
had fuggelied on a former night. He entirely con-
curred with him as to the propriety of making thofe
tegulitions with refpea to the age of officers who
-are to fit on or be Prefidents of Courts MartiaL—
There were feveral officers, however, Come of them
of the highett rank and of the utast)* experience,
who had declared that they entertained Come doubts
as to the expediency of adopting fuels a meafure.—
In relpea, therefore, to the opinions of fuch men, he
bid thought it would be mod proper that he lhould

not bring forward the new elatees until he had sa
-spportimity of ftating their opinion more fully to
the Houle, which he expe,fted he would be enabled
to do to-morrow. For this realon he hoped the Gal-
lant Officer would be fatisfied that the Bill thould,
pals through its prefent Rage without the introduc-
tion of the clanfes which he had propofed. •
. . .

. .
General FITZPATRICK declared that he had
no objection to the delay for fuch a reafon as was
then affived. The Bill was then ordered to be read
a third time to-morrow.

SALT TAX.

On the Motion being pnt from the Chair, that the
SiII for railing an Additional Duty on Salt, be read
a fecond time,

Lord WM. RUSSELL declared, that be felt it
to be a duty incumbent on him as a Reprefentative
of .the People, to oppofe the palling of a law which
impofed a molt heavy Tax on an article of fuch ge-
neral and immediate neceffiry to every clafs of his
Mrjefly's fubjefts, but which was molt particularly
neceirary for the fuhfiflence of the poor man who
was hardly capable of bearing the burdens which
are at prefent on his [boulders. In a former Selfion
of Parliament, it was thought expedient that the
duty thould be taken off entirely in tome inflances,
where it moll immediately affefted the poor. He
hoped that Gentlemen would refleft upon this cir-
cumfiance—that they would confider for a moment
what an enormous addition this Tax would make to
the expenditure of the poor man, and he had no
doubt that they would then paufe before they gave
their content to fuch a heavy draft being made upon
his (lender pittance. The Tax would Rife& him in
a variety' of ways; it would tend to increafe the
pike of bread, it would alfo add confideribly to the
price of falt meat, which was an article of very ge-
neral ufe among the poorer clafs of people in great
towns, and it preffed molt grievoufly on rhofe in the
Highlands of Scotland and other placct, where falt
6.fh was a principal article of their food. And, above
all, lhould this be done at a moment when the poor
are fcarcely able to maintain themfelves, and when
fubfcriptions have been found neccffary to be entered
into for their fupport Seeing this fobjea in the
view that he did, he lhould have thought he had
been guilty of a great negleft of his public duty, if
he did nut oppofe the fecond reading of this Bal—
tic therefore moved, That ip the queflion which was
put from the Chair, the word " now" be omitted,
for the purpofe of inferting the. words " this d,ay fix
months."

As foots as the Speaker had put the motion from
the Chair,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rofe to offer a few obfervations in reply. Hegan
by adverting to that Report of the Committee on the
Salt Duties, on which the Noble Lord placed fo
much reliance. It was there Itated that the removal
' of thefe duties wonU be produaive of many itn-
portant advantages, that it would have the effe& in
particular of giving material facilities to agricultu-
ral improvements. The effect of this would, howe-
, vet, alto be, to deprive the revenue of a .molt pro-
, dative article ; and therefore the Noble Lord, in re-
ferring to the Report, argued not againit the pro-
poled rnereafe, but againft the tax, to all its culling
extent. The queftion then came to be, not only
whether during a period of war five hundred thou.
land pounds was to be added to the revenue by the
propofed tax, but whether a million arifing tiom the
fame fource fhould alto be abandoned. But with re-
(pea to this very Report, which fuggened fuch a re-
peal, he begged the Honk to keep in mind what had
been done fence the time it was prefented, that is, dor•
ing an interval of more than three years. With all
the documents before the. Houle which that Report
furnithed, not a fingle (tep had been taken to carry
it into effect. At the moment when the imprelEon
produced by the fads difclofed in the Report might
be fuppofed to have been the ftrongeft, no one had
declared himfelf fo thoroughly fatisfied on the fub-
jet as to feel hirofelf authorized in propofing the re-
peal, and till the prefent day the queflion had flept,
without even an intimation of a with that the re-
commendations of the Committee fhould be reduced
to prattice. Now be put it fairly to Gentlemen,
whether if, during a period of peace, there was no
idea entertained of ailing on the fuggeftions. of the
Committee, it was now to be argued that their ideas
ought to be purfued ? The Noble Lord, indeed, had
argued that the Tax was highly impolitic, as cal-
culated to operate with the leveret} preffure on the
lower orders.' He had parikularly referred to ,
thofe parts of the country where thole chiles of ,
the community fubfifted chiefly on falt 6th and
other fait provitions. He had no hefitation in
laying, that to him the idea oflayin* revere burdens
on the lower claffes would be peculiarly unpleafant,
and he had ever done whatever lay in his power to
avoid the neceffity of impofing them. But in a war
like the prefent, which was in defence of whatever is
dear either to the rich or the poor, in fupport of all
the moll facred and valuable privileges of focial
beings, it would be going ton far to fay that the poor
were to be totally exempted from all share of the bur-
dens neceffary for the public fervice. It was indeed
objeaed by an Hon. Gentleman oppofite (Mr. Fox)
whole authority would not be denied tobe the highelt
on that fide of the Houk, when the taxes were pro-
pdfed, that fo (mall a proportion of them was on ar.
ticks .of confumption. He agreed with the Hoo.
Member' in the policy of fuch a mode of taxation ;
but he was afraid he fhould never be able to gad out
in all its extent, the fecret of impoling taxes by equal
per centages. We had, however, :teed on it as far
as it was practicable. The income tax, the taxes on
alleffed taxes, and other duties, were fo many proofs
of the regard that was paid to the comforts of the
poorer claffes of fociety. He called on Members to
look back to the taxes impoled (luting the late and
the prefent war, from the year 1793'111)w. n to the pre-
tent moment, as a proof of this rifleman. During
that period, taxes to the amount of no lefs than 16
millions had been annually railed ; and, whlrthe ex-
ception of three or four articles, the whole of that
fum wis railed by the higher or middling claret of
tgr the (late. This then Curtly is no roof of the come
forts of the lower orders being ne eeted, no evidence
that there exitted on the part of t e Houk the leatt
with to opprefs them by any unneceffary burdens..—j.
The Houle had only to look to the nature of the
talcs impofed, to be convinced that every thing was
done LA confine the injure of taxation to thole bell
ehabled by their fituation to fupport it. They had
only to think of the great addition to the (lamp di*

lies, tia_the vaf rife on the duties ors wine, and even
ifewe iti rits, to be convinced that no pains ha 4
:beestikd to relieve the poorer orders from all vu.
geceffary burdens. 'But he deflred Gentlemen to re.
Be* a little on what was to he the operation of the
to propofed, before they Coffered themfelves to he
led away by the idea that it would operate with any
great feverity of preffure. The amount of the tax
was five hundred thoufand pounds, taken on a c ilcii
listion that the quantity cif falt confumed was 3111111•
ally about two million' of hurtle's, The ,lation
of the whole kingdom was taken at ahr eleven mil-
lions, fo that the proportion to each rimily would not
be very confiderable. h was always to be kept in
mind, in reafoning on the preffure of the tax, that
the quantity of falt confumed in families in higher
life was much greater in proportion to the number of
individuals than among the poorer claffes. It was
eafy to account for this, from the different manner in
which their provifions were prepared. The tax, be-
fides, was infenfibly collated from the weekly earn
ings of there claret, and would confequently not ope-
rate as any material refrare on their laborious in.
duflry. He had inquired into the fubjat, and he
found that it would amount on an average to no
more than four or five (billings for each family. Now
confidering all the heavy impofts which the higher
orders had been fubjeted to, it could not with juf-
tice be argued that this tax would operate with great
feverity. As to the effed which this tax might have
on the price of bread, he maintained that it was quite
inconfiderable. The WI was, that on a Pack of flour
the quantity of falt neceffary for converting it into
bread was fo trifling as to be quite incapable of pro-
&icing any effeft on the rife of bread. It would not
produce, he had reafon to think, a rife of more than
a farthing on a whole Pack of flour. Such a rife
as this was not to be ferioufly fpnken of, when arg•i-
ing en the principle and policy of the tax. It could
not affea prices by itfelf, and ought not to be urged
as any proof that the tax would be oppreffive. On
the whole view of the fubjed then, he had no difficul-
ty in laying, that fainted as the country now was,
ursent as was thi call, both on iich and poor, for
great facrifices in fupport of their common interefts
avid common fafety, he few no tax Ids objatinnable
' and capable of producing an equal fun), which could
be fubftituted in its room. He therefore felt himfelf
called ou to refill the Noble Lord's motion.

Mr. FOX declared that he had feldom dial to
give hisopinion againft any tax which appeared to him
more obj:etionable. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had anted why, if the fuggellions of the Committee
on the Salt Duties were politic and expedient, they
were not aced upon during the exiftence of peace ?
To this the anfwer was at once fimple and conclu-
five. The Houfe would recolleadiat the Report was
made in 18ot, and it was only in that one SetUon
that the interval of peace gave an opportunity for
bringing forward a propotitima for the 'repeal of the
Salt Duties. At that time thole at the head of af-
fairs, and thofe who brought forward the Report,
had not time to make up their minds how far a Bill
for the repeal of the duties was expedient, or in what
manner the deficiency arifing to the revenue fhnuld
be fupplied. But it was, indeed, a very different
thing to talk of the abfolute repeal of a tax allowed
to be obnoxious, and to come forward with a pr( po-
fttion for augmenting it to a monairous extent:When-
ever this country was reltored to peace, he hoped
and trulied that the tax would be totally annihilat-
ed. But, faid the Right Hon. Gentleman, if the old
tax cannot now be renewed, on what principle was
it that Gentlemen objected .to the increafe ? This,
truly, was a very fingular and novel fort of rcafon-
ing. He would ark the Right Hon. Gentleman, if
the tax amounted only to two hundred thcoafand
pounds he would °Neel to the repeal ? He believed
the Right Hon. Gentleman could then have no doubt
ac to the policy of the repeal. The old tax amount-
ed to a million, hence arofe the difficulty of dellroy-
ing fo large an amount of revenue. But the new tax
propofed to render chi: revenue greater by five hund-
red thoufand pounds, and hence the difficulty of the
repeal was greatly enhanced. Or. this ground, if he
had no others, he fhould therefore object to the frefh
impofition. It was not only oppreffive now that war
vatted, but would infallibly throw frefh obaacles
in the way of the repeal, whenever peace came to be,
reftored. Now, as to the tax Well, he further ob-
jeeed to it that it attached to one of the dared need,
faries of life. With refpeet to many articles of con-
fumption to which Taxes applied, the lower orders
had a remedy, either by difcontinuing them altoge.
Cher, or by ufing them in a more (paring manner.
But here the evil could not by any means be avoided.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had Paid, that the filh-1
cries would not be affeded in confequence of the
drawback to be afforded. The.vcry neceffity of the
drawback was, however, an argument againa the tax.
Difficulties arofe out oidrawbacks in two ways. In
the one cafe the revenue was defrauded, or in the
other, the individual would not derive the advantages
intended by the Legiflature. He could fuppofe the
cafe of a poor man who cured a final' quantity of
fills, chiefly for his own ufe—but perhaps, p.trtly
for a retail trader. Now in this cafe, it was next-
to impotlibility to make the diaindion betwixt the
Salt ufed for this trade, and that employed for his
own ufe. As to the Tax generally, -he condemned
it in its application to the poor, as contrary to every
principle on which taxation had hitherto been found-
ed. It had always been hitherto aged on as a gene-
ral principle, that wheat, corn, and butcher's meat,
fhould not be &redly taxed. Here, however,
butcher's meat was in direaly taxed, and that fort of
food which the lower orders principally depended on
for their fubfillance. The Right Hon. Gentleman
had argued that the Tax would fall lightly on the
poorer elaffes ; but how did this appear, when it was
to attach chiefly to (alt provifions, which, with the
exception of bread and potatoes, where (alt too was
indifpenlible, conflituted the tole fupport of the 13
borions orders ?—He did not pretend himfelf to have
much information on this fubjea, but he had felt it
his duty to inquire into the butinefs, and he found,
that if twenty (core was to be falted, it would require
no lets than a buthel and a half of falt. It was true
that a bog of this fize was not likely to be in the
hands of a perfon in the lower orders of life. But 1
th4.,:fo far from weakening, ftrongly corroborated
his argument. It was well enough known, that if a
hog of (mallow fine was to be faked, a greater quan-
ta), of falt in proportion. would be required. Sup
poling then that a final" hog was to be fatted, and a'
quantity of fat, which now paid a duty of fourteen

AI was only
ainiv
raife it to six. if not to a Rill higher ice. He flicri'vlel nfligitl iinwtiss, filyrieenciti tr.l"llls7l'fr(e;trtahilelh oialgml'e
dealer th
wouldquantityt e e rwould
with-
.ed Gentlemen to bear in mind whether this addition
would not, to a poor cottager. prove a vc:y fez iotts
addition. Now, as to the effed of the tax, to far
all of one opinion, that the total repeal of the .14
'o'sf refilthadthe belt judges easgirnic ulrthetrre hadkingdom, caonrifudtlitled ey manyl4.,ete
=
wDhuitiihescwouoludLbebeadoone oe. They all allowed, that if
fd the moll important menfures
p
fait free of duty could be employed on a large soak,
it would be productive of incalculable benefit. It
t
behoved Gentlemen then well to weigh this before
they contented to a heft' impofitian, by which tl.e
ufe of Salt in agriculture would be in a great Inc:,
lure prohibited. Here the fame arguments as appli-
ed to the fifheries could nor he employed, because a
drawback could by no poffibilit y he employed. View-
ing then the Tax in all points of view impolitic, he rnok
heartily fupported the motion of his Noble Friend.
Mr. EGERTON Ma a few words againft the pro..
pofed tax, which, from his knowledge of the trade„
mull operate in a mft difadvantageous manner. He
referred to a meeting of the fah owners, who had
waited on the Right Honourable Gentleman oppo-
fite, to explain to him their views, f the tax. At tikes
meeting they had ufed every argument to induce
him to abandon the meafure ; and thoc'gh they had
not fucceeded in obtaining the object of their wifhes,
they had experienced from the Right Hon. Gentle-
man every fort of attention and candid confideration.
Mr. GIDDY alto (poke fhoitly tax.
From his own intimate experience, he was lure that
it would be highly detrimental to the filheries. When
the hall tax on fah was impofed, over a great extent
of coaft the curing of nth was for a confiderable time
almoft wholly fufpended. In many parts of the coun-
try where the people almoft wholly lived on fah pro-
vifions, the tax would be productive of much ferious
inconvenience, even mifery. He ftroagly recom-
mended the fubflitution of Tome other tax in its room,
as the ancient was unjuft in its principle, and impo-
litic as well as oppreffive in its operation.
Sr; WILLIAM PULTENEY was decidedly
againft the meafure. He had no doubt that if the
war had not broken out, the Mggellions of the Com-
mittee on the Salt Duties would have been carried
into, effed. The only queflion was—if the falt duties
had been repealed, what other duties Mould be :c-
-loned tato cover fo great a deficiency in the revenue?
The argument of the Right Honourable Gentleman
oppofite, that the taxwould not be oppreffive, becaufe
it would only make an addition of four or five Mil-
lings to each family, was totally unfounded. The
fad was, it would ceeate an addition to this amount
in every individual of a faMily, and would any one
deny that this would be a molt heavy and ferions
prelfure. Hitherto it had been the object of the
• Houfe to exempt from taxation all articles of indif-
, penfible neceffity to the fuflenance of life. Other
articlei of convenience or luxury might be given up,
but here. it was propofed to lay a very revere import
on an article admitted on all hands to be an article
of primary neceffity, and one which was effential not
tq the comfort only, but to the very exiftence of the
• lower orders. Silt was like leather, and candles.
• and a few other articles, which only deferved the
name of neceliaries in the ftrideft fertile of the term.
• The Houle were aware that a tax on Inch articles
war attended with inconvenienciip fa- greater than
the bare amount of the impost in the 611
The moment the tax was promulgated the retail
dealer took advantage of railing the article taxed to
a vaft tax fir the confumer. This rife was in all
cafes exceedingly oppreffive to the labouring claffes
of the community. He referred the Houfe to what
had been found to be the effect of the falt tax in
France. There it was found to be a molt odious,
oppreffive import, and more than almott any other
;Rule excited difguft againft the Government. There
too the rife of the price counteraded Cue views of
thofe who projected and perfevered in the. tax. The
people in molt cafes diminifhed the confumption,and
in others totally diluted it. It was a fad, that when
the price was comparatively fmall,.there were twen-
ty-eight nounds confumed, while in the Lime family
there was' not a conftimption of twelve pounds when
the price became exorbitant. The Honourable and
• worthy Baronet defired the Houfe to look to the Rate
• of the northern counties, and the fort of bread which
conflituted the principal food of thi laborious clatfes.
Salt was indifpenfable to the formation of this bread,
and furely it was the height of impolicy to augment
burdens among thole who were the haft able to af-
ford them. He should ever let his face againft taxes
affecting, as this did, the middling, and- he would
contend, the moll valuable part of fociety. If fuch
taxes were accumulated, it was eat), to forefee the
confequences. We could not raife the public bur-
dens. We =ft come to a nand. The State, like
other declining empires, mull fee its haft day. He
conjured the Houfe, by throwing out this meafure,
to Mew their dente to avert Co dreadfal an evil.

Mr. ROSE could not admit that the objeftions of
the Worthy Baronet were conclufive. He did nut
believe that the tai would diminith the confumption
of falt. Paft experience lhewed that fuch taxes rather
affilled than diminithed confumption. This, at lealt,
he could Rate to have been the effea of the tali tar
upon falt, which at the rime was fo ftrongly objeCtel
to. As to what an Eon. Gentleman oppofite (Mr.
Fox), had Paid about the quantity of falt neceffary
for faking a hog of zo fcore, he confeffed when he
heard the aatement he doubted of its accuracy. He
had accordingly gone out for a few minutes to con.
fult a perfon, well verfed in thefe matters (we under.
Rood the Hon. Member to refer to his Cook) who
had allured him that the ftaternent was totally erro-
neous.' On the fame authority he could affitre the
Hnufe that about fourteen ,dun& of 11-.lt would be
fufficitnt for jthe purpofe alluded to. He could net
vote for giving up the tax, as he really did not fLe
where one more unexceptionable could be fubtiituted
in its room.

Mr. FOX in explanation of bis ffwement, begged
the Right Hon. Gentleman to confider that there
were different modes of faking, applicable to differ-
ent fituations and circumflances. 'What would be
very good faking for the family of a perfon in high
life and affluent circumffances, would be quite ina-
quate to the purpofes of a cottager; a much larger
quantity of falt would be neceffary in the one cafe
than the other.

Mr. Alderman COMBE, from under the Gallery,

. tC
we 0

tax in
which the
ed in the r
Lord A
the Tax,
feets it wo
the Northe
Mr. HL
lay no mo
This, lode
pulation o
Mr. JO
the (latent
Pulteney)
and not to
on the Sal
an averag4
year, and'
xpence.
tl,tee-penc
~! Honot
tax, and IT
Winn to fi
the ifland,

After a
and Mr.
the Houfe
The pm
the Bill t
Amendme
the fecund
On our
Salt Tax
row—to

MIDDLE

Mr. Pu
the attent
in fummin
evidence.

Strange.
h►ittee cons
again calk
of the Con
'sing, at el
journed.

PRICE 0
Con rub, fa

Bark Stork
3 per C. Red.
per Cent C
4 per Cent. ft
5 per Cent. N
S per Cent. t ~

Advices
the Rochef
Yeller4a
tended at t
France rely

bours oppr
which dill>.
Admiralty

1,, !I

A
I,E

Some ac

town yefter
which Rate

been given
ton of trop

terior ; it is

to receive tl
that the Du
dilllttisfied
to be emph

It contin

rived about

and was to

Laa nigl
a difeuffiot
which the
Tax upon
veered, tha
Tax that a
Clafs of So(
elt,e Rq,elyl

fore, raife