Star.
London, England, 1807-02-28 00:00:00

INSOLVENT DEBTOR Se

Lord HOLLAND preented a Petition from the Debtors con-
fined in the King's Bench Ptifon, praying for fuch relief as to
the Houle Ihould fcem meet. His Lordihip obferved, that after
what patted laft Seffion refpeeting this fubjeet, it was Amon
needlefi for hint to fay, that it was not his intention to propofe
any Bill for the Relief of Infolrene Debtors. The petition, in-
deed, did not pray for any fuch Bill, but rather for a general
law refpeeting debtor and creditor, by the operation of which
they might be rettored to their families. Of the neceffity of tome
law of this nature there could be no doubt; and he was hap-
py that a Noblc Friend of his, who had formerly called the
attention of the Houfe to this important fubjeet, hail again ap-
plied his mit.J to its confiderstioit ; and tint, in another place. a
part of the fubjeet bad been taken up by a Gentleman of diftin-
guilhed talents and benevolence. From tilde eireumftances, he
looked forward with the gr..atcft faisfaelion to the adoption of
force mcafure rerpt ding this fubjeet, which would have the effeet
of removing many of thole evils that at prefent milted. He
Mould merely now move that the Petition do lie on the table.
Ordered.

TAXATION.
The Order (tithe au for fummoning their Lord-
fhips having been read,
The Earl of WARWICK entreated the indulgence
of the Houle, while he endeavoured to nate to
their Lordiiiips the outline of a plan which he wifhed
to propofe, with a view of introducing a more equal
and eqtlitahle iy item of Taxation. At a period like
tie prefetr, when the great aggrandi ement and in•
fittable ambition a Fiance called upon this country
for every elortioirthat could be made,/ in, order to
carry on-:thowiWt with virtu' and aid, when peace
wAs placed at a diilance not to be calculated. upon,
and whedill'Eurstie,.l, okedyi dtis ;clumsy as their
gt c At ilay and 11(14:At was tat .the outwit importance
to confider how that amount of remota which mat

needfarily be had, could be railed with the haft
preffare upon the people. He objeaed to the pre-
fent complicated fyllem of taxation, as not calculated
to attain the defired °Nal ; and as proceeding upon
erroneous data ; at prefent, whila taxation prelTcd
heavily upon Tome claffes, others in a great degree
efcaped. His great objetft was, that it fhould be
borne equally and equitably by all. To rife% this,
he had formed a plan which was totally novel, and
which had never yet either been fpoken of or written
upon. The more he had confidered his plan, the
more he was convinced of its efficiency, and of the
inadequacy of the prefent fyitem of taxation. He
objefted to making property the criterion of taxation,
becaufe it was difficult to define what property was ;
he would only confider property by means of its
fign, labour. The great oblation to the tax upon
property was that, whillt it got at tome deforiptions
of property, perfona engaged in commerce, in ma
nufatures, in profeffions, and in various fpeculations,
made what returns of property they pleafed, and
paid accordingly. He wifhed that taxation fhould
be equal and equitable, and at the fame time general
and compulfory, not partial and voluntary. He had
made feveral calculations for the purpofe of ellablifh
ing the efficiency of his plan, the refult of which had
aftonifhed him, and would no doubt furprize their
Lordfhips ; the bats he took was expenditure. Being
doubtful whether his voice would enable him to con.
vey all that he wifhed to fay upon the fubjed,he had
on the preceding day put down his ideas upon paper,
and, with their Lordships' permiffion, he would read
them. His Lordfhip read to the Houfe feveral ob-
fervations, fimilar in purport to thofe he had previ-
oully made, and afterwards Rated his plan, which
proceeded upon the calculation of t2,00c4000 of po-
pulation, then taking 3,000,000 at 6d. per day ex-
penditure,
The amount would be at 6d. per day £.27.3752c00
z,c00,000 at is per day 18,250.000
1,000,000 at as per day 36,500,0c0
1,000000 at ss per day
.541750,000
a,coo,oon at 4s per day 73,c00,000
1,000,000 at ss per day 91,250,000
1,000,000 at His per day 181 00,000
apoopoo at ass per day 219,000,000
apoo,ooo at ass per day 273,7500ci0
apoo,ooo at aos per day 365,0c0,000

Total 1,3419375.000
The claires up to ss. inclufive, his Lordfhip reckoned
the employed, and the other claire:the employers.—
Taking the population at i 2,500,000, there would
remain 500,000 perfons, whom he would fuppofe to
fpend ioool. a year each, amounting to 500,000,0001.
but even fuppofing that to be the cafe, he would
make a prcfent of that amount to their Lordfhips,
and rely upon the remainder, a fmall per centage
upon which would produce confiderably more than
the Property Tax did at prcfent, whilst it would fall
equitably upon every one, and each would at once
know what he was to pay. He thought the bell
mode of proceeding would be to refer his plan to a
Committee, and concluded by making a motion to
that effed.

Lord GRENVILLE thought. that in point of
form the Motion could not be entertained by the
Houle, as there wasno paper before their Lordthips
which could, confiflently with the forms of the Houfe,
be referred to a Committee. With refpeet to the
plan propofed by the Noble Lord, he had confider-
able doubts of its efficiency. Expenditure was un-
doubtedly taken as one of the criterions of dire& tax-
ation, it being the fign of wealth, but where the exi-
gencies of the country required a large fum to be
raifed, the more the amount of taxation neceffary to
be railed was diffufed in different channels; it would
be found that the lets was the preffure upon the
people. It was unqueflionably an °fajta of the greateft
importance where burdens were to be impofed upon
the people, to make them fall as lightly as poffible,
and the great advantage of indired taxation was,
that it fell to a certain extent upon articles, refped
ing which it was in the power of the Confumer to
leffen his confumption of thole articles, or leave them
off altogether; and thus the payment of thefe taxes
was voluntary, as depending upon the confumption
of the articles. He admitted, with refpea to the
Property Tax, that it did not reach every defcription
of income, but an approximation was continually
making to its more effectual operation upon thole
dales whom it was its ()kit& to include. The ob.,
jet of the Noble Lord appeared to be to littplify
taxation, but he thought the effect of that fimplifica-
tion, as Rated in the Noble Lord's plan, would be
much more oppreffive than the fyffem it was propofed
to fupercede, particularly as, according to the plan
of the Noble Lord, the propofed taxation would
fall heavily upon the poorer claffes of the people,
while the furplus property would efcape its operation.
The Earl of WARWICK laid his objedt was not
to tax the poorer dafs, the employed, but the em.
ployers.
The Earl of SELKIRK obferved, that in the I
amount of population Rated by the Noble Lord, a '
great rumber of children muff be reckoned, where
expenditure of courfe ct,uld not be taken at the pro-
poled rate, but their maintenance mull be included
in the expenditure of the family.
The Earl of WARWICK laid that that was pro-
vided for in his plan, and if the Houfe would allow
it to go to a Committee, he was convinced that he
could prove fatisfaaorily, by calculations in detail, all
that he had Hated.

After a (hurt converfation, the motion was with-
drawn as informal, and another fubflituted by the
Earl of Warwick for the appointment of a Commit-
tee to confider of the bell mode of railing the Reve•
nue, which was put and negatived.
Adjourned till Monday.

Colonel BASTARD moved for lean to bring in a'lll for the
better Regulation of Pori& Apprentices, the principal ()Ned of
which, as he explained, was to oblige the Mailers of filch Ap •
prentiees to permit them to attend Divine Worfhip on Sundays, in
order that the Churchwardens may fee they are properly taken
care of—Leave given.
At the requeft of Mr. FREEMANTLE, Sir JAMES PUT.-
TENEY agreed to puftpone, till Tuefday,thc difcuffion upon his
Financia! Propofitions.
Lord TEMPLE brought up an Account of the Army Extraor•
dinaries, purfuant to order.—Ordered to be printed.
His Lordlhip then brought up the Pilot Regulation Bill, which
was read a firft time. He Paid, that, as it was a Bill of contidera-
ble importance, it was not his intention to prefs it forward. Be-
fore he moved, therefore, to have it read a (mond time, he would
bate, that the °llea of the Bill was to bring all pilots who were
not fo already, under the authority and fuperintendance of the
Trinity Houle. He 'eland the Bill to be committed, and then
printed for the confideration of the Members of the Houk, and
to give ample time for the fame He hoped, therefore, no objec-
tion would be made to its being read a feeond time on Monday,
and committed the fame day.—Ordered to be read a fecund time
on Monday.
WICK ELECTION.

-- - - -
The following Members were chofen a Committee to try the
merits of the Petition, complaining of an undue Elealoa and
Return for Wick, Dornock, &c.
James Shaw, Efq R. E. D Grofvertor. Efq
Thomas Brooke, Efq Sir W. Middleton, Bart.
Henry Thornton, VI Henry Pane, Efq.
B. Hohhoufe, Efq R. Sharp, Efq
R. Wigrani, Efq R. H. Bradlkaw, Efq
T. Baring, Efq Lord Bernard.
Walter Jones, Efq
Peter Moore, Efq. and Right Hon. H. Erikine--Nominees.
PINRYN ELECTION.

Mr. ATKINS WRIGHT moved, that the Order for taking the
Special Report of the Peuryn Committee into confideration on
Monday, mould be difcharged, and that it Would be lied for the
11 ft of April nest. The reafon was a domeftic calamity which had
happened to one of the parties concerned.
Lord TEMPLE and Mr. WYNNE obJetfted to fueh a long
delay, and after a few words from Mr Hurft, Mr Swan and Mr.
Lee Keck, it was agreed that the Report Would he taken Into con-
fideration on the 13d of March.

-MAIDITONI BLECCIOif.

Mr. FULLER prefented a Petition from Walter Dewry, who
bad been confined by the Maidftonc EleCtion Committee, espref.
five of the contrition of the witnefs; is confequence of which,
it was ordered that he fhould be brought up to the Bar on Monday
and difcharged.

WEST6IINSTIR aLicTints.

Lord FOLKESTONE rofe and obferved, that having prefented
a Petition to the Houfe laft night, complaining of certain attempts
made by the Agents of a Right Hon. Gentleman, one of the Sitting
Members for Weftniinfter, to purloin tome of the principal wit-
neffes to be adduced before the Committee for trying the merits
of that Eleetion ; it was his with to examine witneffes at the Bar
of the Houfe in fupport of the allegations of that Petition. His
object, therefore, for riling cow was, to move, that the notice of
a motion for taking the Petition into confideraon on Monday, be
changed into an Order of the Day. He bad acted the opinion of
the Right Hon. Gentleman, whom he now faw in his place, and
he had no obje6.lon to fuch an arrangement. He therefore moved,
" That the Paid Petition be taken into consideration on Monday
next."—Ordered accordingly.
Alfo, "That the following perfons be ordered to attend this
Houfe on Monday, vie. William Drake, fen. William Drake, jun.
Anne Drake, Thomas Wetherhead, John Richards, William
Bingham, Daniel Riehardfon, Chriftopher Richardfon, William
Warren, Sperring, wife of William Sperring; Warren,
wife of William Warren and Gime others."
Mr. SHERIDAN Paid be never entertained the molt diftant
idea of oppofing any motion of the Noble Lord, or of any of his
friends, that could tend to the Gillet enquiry upon this tub-
lea; on the contrary, he should Sneerely concur in every mea-
lure conducive to that purpefe : but as feveral of his friends,
Rice:tors of Wcftminfter, felt extremely hurt at fuch an imputa-
tion as this, he Ihould, on Monday, prefent a Petition, the objea
of which would be to prove fubornation of perjury on the part of
the Petitioners.

The feveral perfons named by Lord Folkftone were ordered to
attend on Monday.

'MIDGE oval. THE HIVE! THEMES-
Mr.BIIEKIDAN then prefented a petition,figned by tnany re-
fpedtabk inhabitants of Weftminfter, praying leave to bring in a
Bill for Building a Bridge over the River Thames, between Black-
friars and Weßminfter Bridges, nearly oppolite to Southampton-
ltreet, in the Strand, and openirg a high read to the Obeli k, in St•
George's Fields; for which purpofe, he raid, preparations were
already in con liderable forwardners —The petition was received
read, and ordered toile on the table.

Members, and anted their opinions, and they all raid
they faw nothing in it which rendered it improper to
be prefented. He concluded by moving, that the
Petition be referred to a Committee of Privileges.
Mr. SHERIDAN feconded the motion.

Lord HOWICK fa;d, he allowed the Hon. Gen.
tleman who prefented the petition was not refpon.
table for its contents, but he thought every Honour.
able Member was fo far refponfilsle to the Honk that
he fhould take care thole contents were not conveyed
in improper terms. He coincided in the opinion de.
livered by the Speaker on a former occafion, that
they fhould throw wide open their doors, to receive
the Petitions of the People, and he was not
difpofed to quarrel with any little inaccuracies ; but
here there was a language ufed which he thought
very reprehenfible. The Petition let out with allud-
ing to a vote of that Houfe, in the regulation of its
own coodua, a thing very unufual indeed for the
People to interfere with, and then proceeds to charge
the Houfe with having disfranchifed them of their
dative rights. and deprived them of their legal Re.
prefentative. If the Petitioners were thus deprived of
their legal Reprefentative, as they had (Wed, by the
proceedings being deferred, it was not owing to his
Right Hon. Friend (Mr Sheridan) but to the Electors
themfelves, who firft applied to have the Petition and
Ballot pofiponed„ which was fixed for a very early
confideration. In confequence of his Counfel being
obliged to attend the Circuits, his Right Hon. Friend
had applied to have the bufinefs further poftponed to
the day on which it now flood fixed, to which the
Houfe had agreed by a very large majority. In a
fubfequent part of the fpeech, the Petitioners tell
the Houk they demand and i'&t on their proceeding
to name an early day, which feemed to him to be a
language not confiflent with the repel due to that
Houfe ; and he was not able to acquit the Hon.
Member of not having given the Petition due con-
fideration before he prefented it. He would not
make any motion on the fubje&, though be could
not help extreffing his difapprobation of it, but
hoped the mater would be fully inveftigated, and
thofe perform punifhed, whoever they were, who had
been guilty of Inch mal pradices.
Mr. W. WYNNE thought it contained fuch lan.
guage that it ought not to be received ; it was'tlan.
gerous to admit it as a precedent. So far as it went
to defire leave to prove matters at the Bar, it ought
to be attended to ; but when it raid demand and iajfi,
he thought it (hould be rejeded.
Lord TEMPLE was of opinion, that a Petition
couched in terms fo indecorous, ought not to be re-
ferred to a Committee of Privileges.
Mr. FULLER was of the fame opinion, and
expreffed great indignation at the terms demand and
as very improper to be Wed to that Houfe.
Mr.WHITBREAD Paid, he was certain there was
no man lefs likely to with to offend the Houle than
his Honourable Ft iend who prefented the Petition.
He would therefore recommend to him to withdraw
the Petition and prefent another, in fubftance the
fame, but couched in more refpeftful terms ; the
Petitioners would thereby obtain what they requelt-
ed, fubllantial juitice, which was all they could aim
at by this Petition. He thought the words demand
and infift were improper, but not fuch as ought to
induce the Houle to reje& the Petition. He was not
fufficiently acquainted with the pradice of the Houfe
to know whether the Petition could be withdrawn,
but, if it were pradicable, he hoped his Honourable
Friend would confent to do fo.

The SPEAKER kid there was no difficulty, if
the Mover and Seconder of the motion to refer it to
a Committee of Ptivileges thought proper, to with.
draw the motion, and afterwards the Petition.

Mr. BIDDULPH Paid, the way in which the
Noble Lord had endeavoured to fir the refponfibility
on him, bad placed him in a fituation to caufe him
to be extremely delicate how he aeled. The Petition
had been given to him to prefent, and he had fub-
mated it to fome other Members, who all thought it
contained nothing reprehenfible. In the &It part,
there was nothing but what the Petitioners had a
right to Rate, viz. that they were alarmed at the
proceedings being fo long deferred. In the latter
part, he thought the words" demand" and " meat'
had been commented on with more fe verity than they
&Served. What was it the Petitioners demanded
and loaded ? Only an enforcement of a Standing
Order ,of the Houle; and as thole words had notlyet
been profcribed by the Houfe, he did not feel that he
was liable to fuch cenfure as had been thrown on him.
Mr. MONTAGUE laid, that as words of violence
had been ufed, he thought it would be better to put
it to the Hon. Member, whether he would not Jo
better to diveß his mind of all warmth, and put the
Petitioners in the way of pretenting a more refpeet-
ful Petition, by which he would relieve thole who
wifhed to preferve the dignity of the Houle from fo
ungracious a talk as that of rejeeling a petition.
Mr. LAMBE raid he was one of thole to whom
PETITION OF THE ELECTORS or wysyssturraa. the Petition had been (hewn, and as I.e would never
Mr. BIDDULPH brought up a Petition from cer. (brink from any thing in public which he had Paid in
tain Eleetors of Weliminfler, refiding in the parith of private, he would repeat, that he did not think—
St. Martin's le Grand, which Rated, " That the Pe- " demand and infift" were deferving the revere cen•
titioners had learned with awe and regret, that the lure they had met with, as they were words not deem-
proceedings on theWeaminiter Elation, which Rood ed improper to be ufed to a Court of Jußice.
fixed for the 24th of this irritant, February, had been Mr. SHERIDAN Paid, he was a little furprifed
deferred to the 14th of April, whereby they were, that the Hon. Gentleman who brought forward the
during all that period, disfranchifed of their dative Petition, who had always behaved toward; him in a
right, by one of their reprefcntatives being fent out of molt friendly manner, and whole hofpitality he had
the country, in his profeflional character, and the partaken of, when he thought it necellary to confult
other legal reprefentative being kept out of his feat fo many others, had not given him fome (mall inti-
by means of a culoprable majority obtained againa mation of its contents. The Noble Lord (Folltitone)
him, by which he was prevented from taking his feat: had always done fo in thole he had to prefent againit
that Mr. Sheridan, in breach of all law, and in direct him, and had acquainted him with what he was di-
defiance of a Standing Rule and Order of that Houle, realy accufed of. With regard to the Petitioners, he
had tampered with witneiles and by his agents was lure they did not with the Petition to go to a
and partifans bad endeavoured get and keep wit- Committee of Privileges, but would rather the Houfe
neffes out of the way, and to fuhorn them by threats, (hould rejea it. What did they inlift en ? Only that
promifes, and influence—and, as fuch conduit is by the Houfe would take care of and fupport their own
the fame Standing Order declared to be a high crime privileges. Whether that had been done in a decent
and mifdemeanor, the Petitioners demand and infift, way, he left the Houle to determine. With refpeCt
that the Houfe will name an early day to take the to the application to withdraw the Petition, he dif-
fame into confederation, and proceed againa it with fered with thufe who defired
it. If it was right, it
that (evenly which fuch conduit deferves ;"—which ought not to be withdrawn. If wrong, it ought
having been read,
to be rejected, and they fhould fairly fay fo; and the
Mr. BIDDULPH raid the Petition had been given Houle did not confult its honour and dignity to en-
to him with a requeft that he would prefent it, which deavour, by bowing and bending, to coax the Hon.
he, thinking it the duty of every Member to facilitate Member to withdraw the Petition. As to hinifelf, he
the applications of the People to that Houle, had had from the commencement of this eleetion conceit,
promifed to do. He did not, therefote, think himfelf made up his mind to bear the obloquy and abule that
anfwerable for ally' thing it contained '; and as there anger, malice,' and difappointment could tuggeft, and
were fome exprefG6ns in it which appeared to him hd was defiroai to have every part of his conduct
to be ratbcr strong, be had fubrnitted it to five or hs lifted in the molt thorough manner.

SLAPS TRAPS COMPENSATIONS.
Mr. HIBBERT prefented a petition from the Merchantielan-
terr, Colonifts, Underwriters, Annuitants, and others interefted In
the Welt India Colonies and Trade thereto, praying a compenfa-
don for the toffee they may fuftain by the Abolition of the Slave
Trade. It was read, and ordered to lie on the table ; and Mr.
Hibbert gave rotice that he mould, on Monday. the 9th of March,
move that the (aid petition be referred to a Committee of this
Hosfe. While he was on his legs, be would now aft a queftion of
his Majefty's Minifters, touching the fubjedt of compenfationi re-
lative to which he had yefterday given notice of a motion. He had
found, under a former Ael for regulating the Slave Trade, a pre-
cedent recognizing the principle of compenfatlon : and he hum-
bly conceived that chore perfons who had purchafed lands in the
Weft Indies, as well as others who had been led to adventure in
the Colonies upon grants of land from the Crown, for which they
haei duly paid the quit rents, and upon which they bad laid out
large Sums in expenfive improvement and cultivation, were to the
full as proper °Neds for cornpenfation for the loges they mutt be
likely to (uftain, and had as ftrong claims upon the juftice of Par-
liament, as any defeription of perfons who had been confidered tin-
der the former Adt. He therefore wined to know, if his Ma-
jelty's Minifters had any objection to admit in the Committee
upon the Abolition Bill, a claufe for compenfation to the claire' of
perfons whom he bad mentioned
Lord HO WICK anfwered, that Ise was not authorized by his
Majefty to fignify his confent to any fuck cLaufe ; and having Said
fo much, he felt it unneceffary to fay more. or go into any difeuf-
fion at prefent, upon the propriety or impropriety of acceding to
fuch a principle, or of granting Inch compenfatlon. But if, at
tome future time, lucks queftion mot pd be brought forward, it
would be time enough'tben to entey into it.

1.