Star.
London, England, 1815-06-17 00:00:00

and Lord E t.r.EgnottoticH were the principal Speakers-
In the course of which the Earl of WESTMORLAND
recap.tulated and reurged his former objections to
th- measure, which any alteration that had since been
trade did very little to obviate. The Noble Marquis
cmt-lided for the necessity of a strong measure, such
as was proposed, to check the growing and alarming
evil in question—and Lord ELLENEOROUGH censured,
id pointed and unequivocal terms, the very loose and
inaccurate manner in which the Bill was drawn and
seat up to their Lordships. The E.til of LIVERPOOL
ai•proeed of the principle of the Bill.
Several additional Amendments were proposed by
Noble'Marquis, and in the result, the amendments
veieagretcl to.—the Bill, as amended, to be printed,
avid to.be recommitted on Wednesday nest.
Afar some interval' had elapsed, the New Mutiny
13 II was b. ought up front the Commons by Lord
1 :.e:tN, thl read a first time ;as was the Parish
t];* BOA, presented also by his Lordship.

iA! f:C!)'•! V Tll EMJLITI • ••-•IIE'SiAC• E: FUOM iwaßitGr4T.
\s";icr):.ttr Si 1)MOii•1'Ii presenteJ a Message from
Highness ou the above subject, couched
a:.

•
" Cronot t'
i it, tiuyal 1-110ve,-. Prince Re7,ent, acting in the name
41,.; tutu of 11;4 N! .eoy, thudrs it prefer to ;ictraint
'oust: tat Lot di, th..r to potroiance of Vie Act passed this
of emitanteno, bin under the present cir-
, •:•:....tneeg. to call out %oft embody the Militia, or 44 part
lb, r,..r, it is she internam of the Prince Regent at this tm•
l',l eta.jouvute, to call our the British and irisb
ii•.: c., c:.i•se the sane, at part thereof, to be embodied, as occa-
-4,t.:t Atilt r,Auire."
'11):: Noble Viscount then contained to the House
the o.cessity, with refeience p.irticularly to*the Act
tussci.t this Session, which existed for a corn.
Ina'll:c.itarn (nun the Throne to both Houses of
V.irlant..iit.hti the sabject, and concluded by moving
a Ilddre4a to the Paiute Regent on the occasion
or his gracious Nlessage, which was forthwith voted
e-ra. .1.1. Adjourned till Monday.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Cr, m.al THORN EON gave notice, that be should, on Mon-
-d..v n. ar„ move for sn Ac.ount of the Money paid to the Gene.
ral Test Oace. in a series of years, for the early delivery of
1.!!t; ers in the Home Department.
Mr. F. LEWIS gave notice, that on Monday next he should
v, t .r leave to bales in a Bill to repeal tile Act that relates to
size of tread.
Mr. IA ISFENO rON moved that the House resolve itself in:o
a Contlincee on the land Tax Commissioners' Name: Bill, on
Wetin;+.l::7 nett.—A. reed to. The Hon. Gentleimn observtd,
t'..tt as :I is Committee had been postponed several times, it
,t.'d zit he possible to protract it beyond that day.
The funle-r conrideratien of the Last India Ship Letters and
C 1e tral.ce of Vessels tills, was•postponed till Mol,ilaY•
074nattre Lands Captured Slaves, Irish Master of the
and Irish Cen-tjbles"ialary Bills, were passed through
Couit.:it ?so—Report on Monday,
I la: hill for Purcha,log Lands for Telegraph Stations was
read a I,rst titi,e, and or.hrod for a taeond rearm: on Monday.
hi•.*CitOKEit brought up a Bin to Repeal and Amend the
Alaiiie co the Eirihriclentent of Naval Stores.
CIiAPtL EZauPTION BILL. •
Oa the CH ANcgLLOR of the EXCHEQUER
the third reading of this 8111—
*S:r W. SCOTT observed, that the great number
rat Chapels that *ere continually rising in every part
of the country, was a serious consideration. He
wefts fed that Proprietary Chapele, being a species
<if property from which profits are derived, ought
fret to be free from parochial rates. He could not
ciinking; that either the measure might have
Bern taken up by his RightHon.Friend igratoitously,
nit:st have originated amongst the persons of
d;fferent religions, *bo dissent from the Church
T.:siateisarnent. It was most probably the latter.—
Tar tact, however, appeared to be, that the measure
would not take t'ff any burthen from them, but
wallet 'lay one on others. There would not be a
soi:le pauper the less, but a great addition 'to the
Rites. It was said out ordoors that the me:t-
sar,: was intended as an effort of conciliation. Con.
c':i 'don with whom ? There had been no Petitions-
ut,stist the existing law; and the Right Honourable
(;ittletrian seemed co have started upon the romantic
ereciiiion of malting peace with those who had de.
tined no war. lewas, in short, a most serious limo.
edtion upon the Protestant system of Tederatimeme
The L^l was offered as an exemption to builders,
c.ep.mters, and others, who were very useful in their
respective stites of society, but who, when they spe.
c utated in chapels, had no claims for peculiar favour
front Government. He meant no disrespect for any
reli4inus persuasion ; but it was well known that the
ren.as prtenulgated at Many chapels were in open
hostility to the Church Establishment; and the pre.
writ BPI woula rather fend to encourage fraud and
impieti, folly and fanaticism, than to check them.—
It w0e1..1 tend to plant instead of remove invidious
siistioctioas. After urging many more objections to!
t tN measure, the Right Hon. and Leatn:d Gentlemth
h,,ated—rhat the 0111 instead of 14 now," be read a
tl,lrt! time this day three months.
' The t.:;;;ANCEL,LOR of the EXCHEQUER
mu; coi4ss thatbe felt some surprise at the ("psi-.
h.; Right Honourable Friend. If the House
reibtild thiak proper to proceed now to the third read.
it wi,„i4 40 al with a full knowledge of all that
ararid be urged against it. Nevertheless, pith all
as;l4.: deference for his Right Honourable Friend's
* impartiality, he must think that his ergo-
nytiirs uethis steliset were unfounded. kit. dented
that its ieference was psi.. respectink the hurthon of
thk tax being thrown opon.partsh rates, aid in part!.
calor his sapitlion t4at an additiogal burAen Would be
t.aown by the Bill epos every parish. la no instance
tliat be lusty, of would it be the shifting of any bur-
tile% If et4ele were converted to any other than
i it direct .purpose, they would become •
t' e rates; At present the whole sr
stu .liy from all the chapels of the mew Ars,
nitn Than per inuutn. 'Therefore the inbabitalts
_ _

burden, and to lay it on others? tlt was 1111 injustice 1
to persons who had come into a parish, under the
idea that they had no other taxes to pay than those
already established. A man who had built a Chapel
as a means of profit to be derived from some Pet Of
religious worship, had no more right to be teheved
from taxation than the owner of an auction.mom, or
any other place of business. He was not ashamed to
say, that he would object to equalising every species
of worship, and putting it upon a footing with that
of the Established Church, a principle which had
never yet been recognized.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH said that a vast number
of persons were interested in the passing of this Bill,
it was no new indulgence that these persons claimed.
The Bill, 'he contended, would promote the practice
of religious worship, and he was surprized that at
this late period of its ptogress, an unexpected oppo.
sition had arisen to it. He denied that chapils were
built as places of profit, ani thought such a charge
would, with more p. opriety, apply to the Established
Church. He conceived great illiberality to prevail
in the minds of those who opposed the Bill. There
was no more justice in reproaching the Dissenters
because such a fanatic as Joanna Southcott sometimes
appeared among them, than there would be in the
Dissenters reproaching the Established Church, be-
cause some of its members in earlier reigns had suf.
fered capital punishment. kle concluded with ex-
pee.,s;ng a hope that the feelings of so great a portion
of the community would be considered by the passing
of the Bill.

Lir WILLIAM scorr explained.
Sir JOHN NICHOLL• stated the law, as it now
stood, respecting places of religious worship. They
were not rateable property, except by the letting of
pews, and then they b•catve AS duly liable to be rated
as any other species of property. The Bill was per-
tectiy unnecessary. The only effect intended to be
produced by it, was to exempt such places of worship
As were sources of profit ; and it behoved the Right
Honourable Gentleman to thew better grounds for
thus altering the established law than he-had yet ex-
plained. No grievance had been made out sufficient
to authorize the Bill. The principles of toleration
could not be carried to too great a length, if religi-
ons persons did not make their tenets a source of
profit, and at the same time wish to be exempted
from supporting the poor. Under this Bill, a pro.
prietor of a chapel, making perhaps £5OO a-year,
would be exempted, and receive a bonus of non.con-
tribution to the parish rates. They had no tight
whatever to such a privilege.
Mr. WETHERELL, if he 521 V no other reasons
for opposing it, would object to the Bill for acting on
a limited principle. If we were to legislate for ex-
em:Nting these places from the roots' Rates, they
ought to be exempted also from the County Rates al-
together. There was no ground whatever for sup:
porting this exemption ; fur such places were as much
speculations of gain as a mill, or any other building.
It was absurd to allege that toleration was promoted
by such a measure : the plumber, the glazier, and
the bricklayer, who combined to raise such places,'
were tolerated, but not the persons who went to them
as auditors. He saw no reason whatever tor the pro-
posed exemption.

Mr. PRGTHEROE expressed his astonishment
at the sudden and combined opposition now made to
the measure. He thought the Honourable General
(Thornton) would have stood alone in his opposition
to it. The explanations of the Right Honourable
Genaeman (the Chancellor .of the Exchequer) were
perfectly sitisfactory in his mind, and he trusted the
House would teal d:•posed to second his liberal and
inlightened views. It should be recollected that the
Dissenters contributed very much to the support of
their own poor, which was a great relief to the parish
rates.

Mr. Serjeant BEST deniea that the insinuation
was correct, th it the Chancellor of the Exchequer
had been taken by surprise by himself and the other
Gentlemen who had now opposed the Bill. He him-
self had declared that he would oppose it. He would
protect the interests of dissenting Ministers as readily
as any man, but not at the expence of the Ministers
of the established Church. The Bill WAS now so al.
tered as to make it more objectionable in his mind
than it was at first, by the total omission of whatever
relates to ilia Church. The Clergymen of the estab-
lished Church will be liable to be rated for the rent
of his pews, while the Dissenter, who has his comm.
tick opposite, will be exempted. The opposition to
the measure had been characterised as persecution.
He was no advocate fur periecution. if tie Clergy
of the Established Church were exempted from pa-
rochial taxes, and the Dissenters made liable to them,
he should say that this was persecution ; but as the
matter now stood, he could consider the Bill only u
a sort of persecution against the Established Churci'.
Where would the friends of this Bill find any part
of it a single clause which rendered such buildings as
were erected for the direct purpose of profit liable to
taxation ? The measure exempted them altogether
from every species of parochial to;. If a man avowed
that Le cared little aborot religion, and that be had
built such a place for the positive purpose alum
where was the clause that made him liable to be
taxed I This Bill was, in WA, drawing a pretty itlrt
of contraitheiween the Ministers of the established
Church and those of Dissenting Congregations I for,
whilst the Church of England was left to pay all the'
Moors Rates, the other descriptions of worship were
Pet: free. Th• taxing of the Church 'Was 00 taxing
of its Ministers. Why was not the letting of peive in
,Pei,

for detaining them a few minutes longer. The tone
in which the Right Honourable Gentleman (Sir W.
Ikon) had taken up the subject, had given it quite a
wronif colour. He supported the Bill, on the ground
that by far the greater proportion of chapels were cha-
pels of ease to the established church. It was precisely
on the principle of this Bill that Dissenting Ministers
were exonerated from serving in the Militia. The Hon.
Gentleman repeated many of the arguments ad-
vanced in favour_
,of, the Billy and concluded with
giving it his warm support.
Mr. A.' BARING thought the Bill useful, as it
would be likely to prevent unnecessary animosity and
litigation, and put an end to those petty disputes
which disturbed many parishes in the country.
Sir W. GRANT explained.
The House divided—For the third reading 22
Against it 41--Majority against the Bill 19.
When strangers were re-admitted Lord CASTI4-
REACH appeared at the Bar with a message from the
Prince Regent relative to the calling out of the Mi.
litia.—( For which see the Lords.)
Lord CASTLEREAGH moved an Address to
the Prince Regent, thanking him for his most gra-
cious Message, and expressing satisfaction at the in-
formation which it conveyed.
Sir J NEWPORT objected to an Address expres-
sing satisfaction at the measures about to be resorted
to by the Crown, on the same day on which the mes-
sage was brought down. . .
Lord CASTLEREAGH stated the course pro-
posed to be perfectly consistent pith the established
Parliamentary practice.
The SPEAKER. said, the course to be taken on
such an occasion depended entirely on the circum-
stances of the case.

After a few farther observations from Sir J. NEw-
PoRT and Mr. BATIIIPAST, the former said he would
offer no further resistance to the motion, which was
then agreed to.
On the motion of Sir J. NEWPORT, an account
of the number of persons confined fur debt in Ireland
was ordered tx) be produced. •

JE5.175,&3$

£888,807
8,160,000
183,000
100,080

9,750,000

By the Act of 1782, nn allowance of £4OOO was pro.
vided. That sum was not nosr considered sugiciert ;
besides, the Office had lately added two racket,
making the expenses in consequence considerahly
greater. It had been agreed therefore to allow them
se9o(X.t. The Revenues for the last four years had
been progressively increasing. In 1812 the amount
wits £1,212,0(x). In 18E; it was 471,D7.4000. 13
1814 it had increased to .5,140,000, and at present ;t
was as high as 5,627,000.. The Right Don. Gentle-
man then adverted; to the measures passed for the he.
nefit of Ireland ; and particularly the Corn Bill; tile
grants which had been mad? for her ir.tern::l accom•
modation, to facilitate her inilte..ry, by providing ea,...
nals, new hat bouts in the Bay c : Dublip to die Nails
and South, the protection given to the educatior of
the poor, by providing Schoolmasters p• the appein .
ment of a Committee to inquire into the Oor,:euct ct
Grand Juries, with respect to their presentnients ; era:
also of. awchcr Censtnittc^ 991: e :tre o: Cie ptllic
Finances, All.these- Siere reel tenef.r. t, ir:!..nt',
for which she was truly grateful. Me R;g:.t Lc r.
Gentleman stated, that this would he the List tine! ~f
should have the honour of addressing the Corte:t:i.t
on the subject of Irish ripener: ; kr e;:nmsed hir ac-
knowledgements for the =tertian 14.1. Ccuse Lig
Fisewn him, during the time he bad the honcar of
tilling the office of Chancellor of the Exaeroier, art!
trusted that his Right Hon. Ti ier.d. jedr....ii ansit tPI )
who would in future execute the 'dneirs if tie cr ct,
would meet with the lame attention. He ctinch.,.eed
with moving his first Iteseluticn. ,
Sir .1. NEWPORT wished to direct the atter L.:4
of the Government of Ireland to tl e greet bate I.
the prosperity of that country—illicit Cstilletior:—
He trusted, that fur the future the penalties impost .I.
on those pertons convicted of itsivg illicit stills v.-01;14
not be remitted. The health ono the raor4l, of true
people required it. In two districts, namely. D;ineg.ll
and Cavan, the practice was carry ieg I,llto an ALirftl •
ing extent. In Cavan penalties to the antou:it of
A 48,00 Q had been remitted by Onveritnient through
mistaken notions of lenity. With re'pect to the L•t,,,t..-
ments of the Right Hon. Gentleman, lie concaried
with him in most of them; but he had, however, t.
must confess, his doubts of the produce. of thz:Asse-,t.c!
Taxes. On the subject el the education' of the poor,
the appointment of Schoolmasters would confer the
greatest possible benefit. Ireland, he observed, hid
borne her share of the burthens of the empire. Within
the 14 years that haul passed since tie union, h.,
found, upon referring to the accounts, that Scotlaeti
had paid in 'faxes £C45,970, Ireland Ar70,24(,..).-84
that Ireton*. itrlit, Trytifirticrei;iitribinid 14,
millions ot TAWS exceeding the contributions of Scot.
laud. Mr. Foster had stated in 1804, that the revenue
had diminished, while ;he debt. had double. •The
reason Ireland had not made greater exertions in the
first four years after the Union, was on account of the
rebellion: He had said so much, iti orderthat it might
nbt be supposed, that the measures prispwed.met with.
approbation generally among the Irish Membera.
Mr. STEWART contended, that nothing could
be more destructive of the hialth and morals of the
people of Ireland than illicit distilleries. In theeounty
,of Donegal he bad endeevoured 'to put a stop to it ;
but it could not be entirely done Without the re;i-
dence of the landowners in the county.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, be had heard Gen&men
say, that theY could find no ventior their grain ex.
ceps by illicit distillation. Ifs opinion was, that in-
stead of promoting, they retarded their interests, by
encouraging this destructive *Seim of distillation.
Mr. PEEL considered that the dissemination of
knowledge among the lower orders in Ireland, by
public schools, was the only means of putting a s'op
to the disorders which had been so prevalent in Ire.
land. lie conceived, that the plan of his Right Hon.
Friend would not be found to be one of compulsory
education : because the knowledge to be disseminat-
ed would be general, and the scholars would be al-
lowed to derive their religious opinions from any
Church they or their parents pleased. The object et
the Irish Government was, that that knowledge which
the lower Irish attainedrand desired with such avidi-
ty, Would not be checked by any bigotry whatever.
ill I ii, PARNELL fully agreed- with the opinions
respecting the education of the Irish, so candidly ex-
pressed by the Right Honourable Gentleman. The
only objection to the plan of education in Ireland
was, that the Seboolmqsters had not regular salaries,
as in Scotland. Oa the general subject of Irish Fi-
nance, he trusted the Chancellor ot the Exchequer
would not check the erection of these Public Schools
by any financial arrangemeiit.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that the finances of Ireland had increased two
millions each year since his Right Hon. Friend (Mr.
V. Fitzgerald): had had them under his cognizance.
The &irking Fund of Ireland amounted to mute
than double that of this country et the beginning of
the French-Revolution, while the debt of Ireland was
nut one half what the debt of this country was at
that period. It was certainly desirable, that in pro-
gress of lime the consolidation of the public debt and
resources of both countries Should take place, and
that os;soota arpossible.
lArsli -CaseSTIEBREAGH tooridartid;* that the
financial . consolidation of the interests of
Weilloudntries, was the aloe; probable measure for
allacting the general %solos% of both countries. For
the Unica bad 'brawn co *sad a granter ProPor*
'don of expense thea she would probably have sushi-
,& bad she remained seperati from this .catthirl•—
!rots this _