Star.
London, England, 1809-01-20 00:00:00

should conquer. Although we must condemn. the this most arduous and momentous business; for,
ambition and injustice- orßonaparte, in his attack although there had been exhibited to-night a dispo-
upon Spain, yet the means which he pursued for the sition and inclination to blame them, yet it had not yet
attainmentof his object were extremely judicious. He been settled between the two Gentlemen who were
abolished the inquisition, feudal rights, and unequal Members of the Committee of their accusers, hovi
taxation. This was certainly holding out some temp- that blame was to be shaped, and they had each
tation to the people to acquiesce in the changes which declared in this House that they Should want time
he wished to introduce. Unless every Spanish heart for that purpose. The Hohourable Member who
could beemb6diedata the cause which was now at spoke last had indeed favoured the public with
issue, there was very little hope of ultimate success. much of what he had said to-night, in a pamph-
There were parts of the Address which had not his let which had been published a good while since.—
concurrence, and yet he did not like to move an He maintained that the observations of the Right Ho-
amendment. ' As to that part of it which spoke of nourabk Gentleman Mr. P. were not very distinguish-
vigorous and persevering exertions, he would allow able for their originality, most of them having been
generally that they were necessary, riot only in con- taken from the newspapers. Where the Right Hon.
templation of war, but even on the eve of negociation ; Gentleman had got his information he did not know,
but if that expression meant any thing like btllum ad but his arguments, and that pretty much in the'same
interlecionem, he must differ from it altogether. He, by arrangement too, had been given in the public pa-
no means, condemned Minifters for not accepting the pers. He had fallen into many errors which are in-
propositions sent from El furth, as there was no man cident to those who derive thtir facts alone from
in tile country who could admit of the abandonment such species of information. He had spoken
of Spain as a preliminary to peace; but what he much of the Supreme junta of Spain—that was of
found fault with was, that the country was apt to run the Junta of Gallicia, and he had spoken of its pro-
wild with every gleam of good success. When the ceedings in the month of July, but it did not happen to
Spanish Patriots were successful last summer, nothing have been established as a Central or supreme Jun-
was spoke of, or thought of, in this country, but the to before the month of September. He had con-
utter ruin of Bonaparte—and many politicians of the ''Minded the Junta of Sevelle with that of Gallicia,
old school were thinking even of the divisions into and therefore all that he accused the Government of
which France was to be cut up. It was miserable for *his country with on that subject, was an accusation
the country to be lcd so far by every tide of good which preceded the fact on which it was alledged
success. Even if the Spaniards bad driven the to be founded by two months ;—and all the errors
French out of their country, they could have done but imputed to the Government of this Country on ac-
little more a-rainst the overgrown power of France, count of not sending an army to assist the Spaniards,
He recollected, that 'at different periods of the war, k ; were errors which really had no existence, for we did
had been said that England would never make not undertake to send an army to assist the Spaniards
peace unless this thing and the other was given up by until they bad established a Supreme or Central Jun-
France, and yet we afterwards were ready to treat ta, because until that was done there was no supreme
with her, allowing her to retain those things.—e authority under which any regular militify power
A few weeks after a negociation failed, we were could act, all the rest of their force was under differ-
always ready to call the mail, with whom we eat Juntas; but until there was a supreme authority,
had been content to negotiate, an atrocious usurper. there would be none junder which a regular military
He thought that Ministers were not only justifiable force could act, and our army was not to be split
in refusing to treat on the terms offered at Erfruth, but and divided into parties, but was to act in one mass
that they would havebeen the basest of mankind if they under its own Commander, and the' Central Junta
had accepted such a preliminary. He could not, was not appointed until September, consequently it
however, avoid regretting that the country had lost was impossible that we should have sent to them
so many fair opportunities of negociating a peace, troops sooner than we did. As to successes, they were
and that it had at length been reduced to such a foul not in our power to command, they were under the
opportunity, that it could not have accepted without guidance of the Supreme Disposer of Events, and
eternal disgrace. The reason that he did not ap- .without whose permission nothing thrives : it was
prove of the Treaty with Spain was, that Eng- enough for all human beings to do their best. But
land was bound by the engagement she had en- there were some things in which we could never be
tered into, to do all she could to assist Spain if there on an equality withßonaparte.We could indeed morn-
had been no treaty, and she could not do any more mend reformation to our neighbours and our allies, by
after the treaty. She would, however, appear some- exhibiting the superior blessings of our Constitution
what disgraced in the eyes of the world, by entering to them for imitation ; we could shew them the supe.,
into a solemn treaty which she had no means of ful- rior advantages of such a system, in the manner in
filling. - As to Sweden, whatever we might feel of ad- which we treated our soldiers, but when we came at
vantage from the trade we have through that country, friends, we could not change and convert ourselves
he was sure it would be much better for the poor lulu- into tyrants for making others happy. We could.
bitants of Sweden and Finland that our subsidy of not convert a friendly soldiery into a domineering
400,0001. per month was removed, and that they were garrison. We know that opinions prevailed, which
allowed to make such peace as was suitable to their are unfriendly to the happiness of mankind, but
interests. As to the firmness and magnanimity of we could not, like Bonaparte, insist on altering such
the King of Sweden, they were qualities fruitless to opinion under the pretext of establishing the happi-
us, fruitless to the cause of Spain, and perhaps rui- ness of all mankind, of which, after all themselves
nous to his own subjects. This last consideration de- were the best judges ; and they would form some
tracted considerably from their merit. He would, decision from that species of benevolence, that kind
however, agree, that it was necessary for us to furnish of freedom which is written with the point of the
the succours stipulated in the Treaty. He could not sword. As to the landing of troops,swhether it was
avoid expressing satisfaction at hearing of the impro- wise they should have landed in Spain or Portugal,
ving state of the revenue ; he could not at the same he had consulted military men, and learned from
time avoid stating, that the improvement of the re- them, that considering all circumstances of that
vents was always attended with an increase of the in- And place, and even supposing the interest of the
fluence of the crown, and with an increasing corrup- whole Peninsula to have been consulted, without,
tion of the country. He could have wished, that in the separating the interests of Spain and Portugal, but
Speech some intimation had been given that the considering the interest of the whole peninsula, that
report of the Finance Committee would have been the attempt should have been made where it was,
taken up, and if so, whether some retrenchments might at the Tagus, and driving the French out of Form-
not be made. If this were done, the country would pay gal,rather than that they should be landed :n any partl
with more satisfaction what was absolutely neces- of Spain at that period, and that with a view to fu.i
sary. He should wish to hear from some Minister ture operations on the whole of the Peninsula. HE
that that Committee was to be revived, and who were maintained, that from the time we arrived at Lisbon
the men that were to compose it. At least, he should to the present moment, there has subsisted between
hope, that a set of men would not be placed in it for the people of that country and our men there the most
the purpose of counteracting the labours of the other. perfect harmony. Under all that has happened, he
If this were done, it would gratify the people, if it had no-hesitation in saying, that the Tagus, and not
could not relieve them. He did regret that nothing Saint Andero, was the place for us to embark. He
had been mentioned respecting our relations with knew there were some Politicians who thought that
America. The same infatuation seemed now to pre- the whole British army ought to have landed at
Bil-
vail with respect to that country, that existed in the boa, and form the Siege of Pampeluna, which was
time of the late American war. There were the same the perfection of ridicule, yet such were the persons
taunts, the same sarcasms, and the same assertions, whom the Right Hon. entleman had got to assist
that America could not do without us. He must de- him with information. As to the objection which had
precate a war with America, as being likely to be been stated to our entering into a Treaty, and the
much more injurious to us than to them. The Right wishes which had been expressed that we should con-
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Cassneo) had, to a fine ourselves to an engagement, he thought the one
proposition most just and reasonable (as appeared to as binding in honour as the other, and therefore
him), returned such an answer, that accommodation there could be no objection to the one where the
seemed at an cud, and the American Legislature al- other was equally binding. He had indeed read
most unanimously resolved upon shutting all their somewhere, that a distinction had been taken betweew
rivers and ports against our trade. What good had a solemn promise and a serious promise, but it was
resulted from our Orders in Council? The French a distinction which 'he did not understand. As to
armies took the field, and wanted for nothing, al. the omission of America in the King's Speech, he had
though we predicted that we could ruin them by de- always considered that, unless some fact had
pricing them of medicines and colonial produce. He occurred to change the relative situation of the two
hoped, however, that the subject would again be Countries, there was no communication usual from
discussed in Parliament, and that they might be able the Throne, nor did he know of any information
to find a way to heal those Wounds which the Right of which Gentlemen were not already in posses-
Honourable Gentleman had inflicted.
sion ; but the Honourable Gentleman who spoke
Mr. Secretary CANNING then proceeded much i last, had treated the subject of the restriction
at large, into all the topics which were contained in I of the Orders in Council, as a measure entirely be-
the Speech from the 'Throne, and also into all the tween America and England, whereas it was a mea-
observations which had been made by Mr. Ponsonby l sure between Neutral and Belligerent Powers. Here
and Mr. Whitbread ; some of whose observations he he justified his own letter to Mr. Pinkney, and main-I
maintained to be at variance with each other He tained that America had always treated us as the
admitted that as great a cause as ever was trusted to aggressors, and France as the retaliators of aggres-
human discretion, had been put into the hands of his sion in the proh;bitory measures of theirs and our
Majesty's Ministers, he admitted also, it was their duty ' Orders in Council ; but that was asuring the whole
to make the hest they possibly could of themeanswhich fact.
had been put into their hands; he admitted further, I Mr. TIERNEY replied to every one of the ar-
that they were not impeded in these means by any garments of the Right Honourable Gentleman, who
opposition to the measures they had adopted on this preceded him • and contended, that what he had
occasion, but that they had met the entire coocurrence , said about landing our force in the Tagus in prefer-
of the Country; he admitted also, that in the manage- I ence to going to any port of Spain • and as to our not'
inert of the means which had been put into their hands, I sending am troops before September, after there had
they had the greatest responsibility that any Ministers been appointed a Supreme Junta, Sir A. Wellesley
ever had incurred. But, although they stood in a i had offered 10,000 to Spain in the month of July.—
situation of responsibility the most awful that ever was And aetoNmen'arii the Right Honourable Gentle-
attached to men, he did not feel that they stood in a t marl's letter to Mr. Pinkney would be the sole cause
state of accusation ; for he did not understand that I of a war with America, if that calamity, which he
any thing which had yet been said against them was I dreaded, should befal us.
L,otherwise than of a general nature, but that there was Mr. ROSE, kin. justified his conduct in America.
Enothiog specific proposed; and, therefore, he was en- Mr. BARING, junior, disapproved of it, and re-
titled to say that it was now admitted, or at least k mined his former ophirions on the subjects of Embargo
was not dunied, that Ministers bad done their best in and Orders in Council,