Star.
London, England, 1822-06-27 00:00:00

I,,awyers, they.wo4ll, &WII4 .Carr with Ahem
commentaries upon the_gtseapons which they em-
braced, that would remain the greatest monuments
of legal learning and of legal understanding—
(Cherrs).—He confessed that there was one of the
source of complaint which undoubtedly did exist.—
The very high confidence and veneration with which
the country looked up to the talents of the present
holder of the Great Seal, induced a general wish to
hive his judgment upon all causes, and from that
feeling there was unquestionably a larger proportion
of Appeals. That was an evil of such a nature, That
he earnestly hoped it would be long, very long, be-
fore it was removed—( Hear, hear).
Mr. TAYLOR shortly replied. In original causes
the Vice-Chancellor sat for the Chancellor, whose la-
bours were withdrawn from his own proper Court.—
Ile must move for a Committee, and then he should
bring in his Bill. The opinion of the Great Seal could
only be obtained at double the expense that it was
before the appointment of the am Court.—The
House then divided:

SI
- 108
Majosity - —ST
MINISTERIAL PENSIONS.
Mr. CREEVEY rose to submit his promised mo-
tion. He was aware that at that late hour he la-

For the Motion
Against it

bowed under a considerable disadvantage in bring-
ing forv►ard this important subject. When last he
Nil the honour of addressing the House upon that
quv,tion, he merely moved for some documents,
which were to make the foundation of the ulterior

proceeding which he now called. upon the House to
conAder, namely, the propriety of repealing the Bill
commonly known by the name of the Pension Bill.
He knew that when be called upon the House to
adopt a measure which went to take away 42,0001.
:-year from the Administration of. the day, paid in
pensions, he imposed upon himself a most difficult
task ; but so fortified did he feel in the unparlia-
rientary, nay, iniquitous character of that Bill, that
was not deterred from taking the sense of the
louse upon it. His allies upon the occasion should
be public opinion through the publicity of their pro-
ceedings and the forms of Parliament, and he was
confident that even though he should be left in a
minority of twenty to-night, yet ultimately that Bill
would be erased from their Statute Book. The

course he meant to propose was, to submit certain
Resolutions, containing the facts upon which the
Ilouse were to decide, and when these facts were in

ere thul eof Resolutions, and before the Public,
they would be able to form an opinion upon them.
it would, pothaps, save the time of the House, as
yell as trouble to himself, if he should tale the Re-
s-Ilutions as his text, and remark upon them as be'
went along. The first Resolution was—
Resolved—" That it appears to this House, by an Act passed
in the 57th year of his late Majesty, c. 65, that a sum of
6::,000.'. per annum is charged in perpetuity upon the Consoli-
dated Feud, to be divided in pensions among certain persons
who •ul have held certain public offices under the Crown for
certain poiod. of time, via. six pensions of TOOOL per annum
each, to such persons as shall have held the offices of First Corn-
intssioner of his Majesty's Treasury, or one of the principal
Secretaries of State, or Chancellor of the Exchequer, or First
Lord of the Adnuralty, for a period of not less than two years
in the whole, either uninterruptedly or at different times. One
other pension of 50001. per annum to any person who shall have
held any of the last-mcntioned offices, without being subject to
any limitation or restriction whatsoever, as a duration of service.
Three pensions of 20001. per annum each, to such persons as
shall have held the offices of Chief Secretary fur Inland., or Se-
cretary at War for any period not less than five years in the
whole, either uninterruptedly or at different times. Six pen-
s:xis of 1,500/. per annum each to such persons as shall have
'rid the 'Zees of one of the Joint Secretaries of the Treasury
r First Secret:xi of the Admiralty, for any period not less
:::an five years; and six pensions of 1,0001. per annum each, to
•-•ch pasons as shall have held the offices of the Under Secre-
•:..i.s of State, Clerk of the Ordnance, or Second Secretary to
::.e A.ltniralty, for any period not less than ten years."
Toe second Resolution referred to the pretence upon
rhich the Act was founded, and was as follows :
" 2. That it appears by the preamble of the last-recited Act,'
that such sum of 42,0004. per annum is provided for the different
par,uos therein named, on account of, and as a compensation for,
the abolition and regulation of differeut public offices by other
Acts then and there passed, and which will deprive the Crown
(as therein stated) of part of the means by which his Majesty had
been heretofore er.abled to recompense the meritorious services
of 'persons holding, or who have held, high and efficient pub-
uffices."
Hitherto it was for the Crown to find out the me-
rits of its servants, and the House of Commons was
a;)plied to in order to enable the Crown to confer re.
wards where they were clue. But by this Bill a dif-
ferent course was pursued, for the House of Commons
took the power into its own hands, fur which reason
he should p:opo,e the following Resolutions:
" 5. That although the said Act of the 57th of his late
bajesty, c. 65, professes in its preamble to supply the Crown
with new means of recompensing the services of persons bolding
(or who have held) high and efficient public offices, no application
from the Crown for such new sources of patronage, by message
or otherwise, to this House, is to be found upon its Journals;
tha.. the said Act appears to have originated solely from a Select
Canenittee of this House, and which was partly composed of
perzens who, from their official situations, would themselves be-
come entitled to the pensions created by the Bill ; that this Select
Committee was appointed in the year 1817, during the pressure
of great public financial distress ; that the sole object of its ap-
pointment (as appears by the Journals) was to examine into the
public revenue and expenditure of the country, and more espe- '
cially to ascertain what relief could be afforded to the People by
the reduction of such expenditure • that this Committee, never-
theless, so appointed and so composed, did, in their first Report,
recommend the creation of this new and burdensome Pension
Fund upon the People, fixing, at their own discretion, upon such
persons who were alone to possess it, and in what proportions,
and leaving to his Majesty the authority of his veto only in the
last resort over pensions thus created by his servants in favour
of themselves."
" 4. That antecedent to the Act of the 57th of his late
3lajes'y, c. 65, it was unknown to the Laws and Constitution
of this kingdom, that the abolition and regulation of useless or
overpaid offices were to be purchased and paid for by pensions
front the Public, to persons holding high and efficient public
offices; that the power of the Crown to dispose of its revenues
Sr. favour art the subject has been greatly abridged within the
lass' two centuries, without any claims for compensation by pen-
sions being made irons the persons who then held high and effi-
cient public elfices; that various useless and overpaid offices have
abolished and regulated during the same period, particularly
by the Act of the 23d of his late Majesty, c. as, whereby differ-
ent offices of considerable emolument in his Majesty's F.xchea,
mister were abolished, and others having profits to an enormous
amount were regulated and reduced to a definite and compara:
tively moderate value, but that no compensation by pension for
such abolition and regulation was claimed by the persons who
then held high and efficient situations."
These were the facts on which he meant to proceed.
This gave him air opportunity of remarking on what
had been said fry the Noble Marquis opposite, on the
debate relative to Ambassadors' pensions. The Noble
Lord was then very high-minded—(A laugh).—
" What!' says he, " would you dis-vi;our the Mo-
narchy by going into the Committee?" He (Mr.
Creevey) was at a loss to know how the Monarchy
could be more dis•vigeured Limn by the 'procectli.iss