Star.
London, England, 1809-05-13 00:00:00

WAY'S AND MEANS.

Mr. HUSKISSON moved the House to zo into a Committee
of Ways and Means; and that Accounts relative to the War
Taxes be referred to the Committte.

Mr. PERCE.VAL proposed that the Budget should he post-
pont d till :he House had an opportunity of examining the annual
accounts of last year.
Air. 'RISK IS:iON said, that the Budget had beer. already de-
layed longer than usual—and it had never been the practice of the
House to wait for the accounts, which were oi,ly to be produced
by the 23th of March. They were now printing.
Sir JOHN NEW PORT saw no reason why the Accounts should
not be produced at an earlier period, since the Accounts of Ireland
were, in tact, produced much earlier. lie contended, that if these
Ac • aims were to be taken away to be printed jllB' at the moment
Vicy were most wanted, duplicates at least ought to oe laid en the
table. .

The SPEAKER informed the I lon. Baronet Oat duplicates
bad ueen laid ou the table.

PERCEVAL. said that the Hon. Baronet must now see
that the wisdom of others had provid .d the remedy which hat
been sul,;gested by biol. He athrint.d that the production of those

must operate as a check, although not produced in every yeal
fore the Budget was brouslit forward.

Mr. ROSE ob.erved, that it was. only by the severest
gence that these Accounts were produced so early as the 2.51:1
March.

The motion for going into the Committee was then agreei to
THE 1,3U1H;12.T.

The Speaker having kit the Chair,
_ _

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rose, and observed, that in proceeding to submit to the
House Resolutions, to certify the Contract which hail
been made this morning by the Treasury, for the
Loan of 14 millions for the service of the year, he
would not take up much of the time of the House
by any long introductory remarks upon a sub;ect
which already attracted the attention of the natioa.
He would, therefore, without further prefice,
the Supplies of the present year, with the correspc,u6._
ing Ways and Means.

-SUPPI.:EO-

Navy
Army
Ordnance iErglarrn
Ireland -
Miscellaneous Englandlt eland
Vote of Cntdit.
Ireland
Swesh Subsidy
Sicilian Subsidy •

Rpscx.i
21,149,774
627,1476 C,903,1 74
1 ,1 73,751 t
7 26,e4 9 1,9G0,0r4
:100,000 C3,V,1,
30(v,44
%Om%

Total Icint Charge 51,954,917
SEPARATE CIIARL:LS DE ENGLAND.
26G,?-11
/•:;00,000 7,429,179
(..0,8C7(

Malt Duty, 1807
Interest.on Exchequer Eels -
5 per Cents. 17437, Lobe 1.a.1 cff

• Total Supplies L'I,RG 1 ,95,1
Deduct Irish Proportion Supply and Civil List - 6,7354€6

On Account of England 47,15t,e21
WAYS AND :WEANS.
Duty on Malt, Pensions, &c. - - 21C0000
.stimatcd Surplus of Consolidated Fund - 4Ccemo
Surplus Ways and Means, 1868 - 27 ;73Ct
War Taxes - - - 1 3,t 60,CC0
I.otteries - - - 5C.0,04
Excess of Exchequer Pills granter! per P. ct 411 h of
Geo. 3, after reserving sufficient to ray off
9,443,2001. issued per Act 48th Gio. 3, the re-
mainder having been landed 2,154,6:1
Excess of ditto, voted in the peesert s .3sion, afr„.
reserving sufficient to pay off 4,644,1(41. i-med
per Act -oath Geo. 3, tin remainder Las ing bnn
funded - - 1,3%5,n'.
ixchequer Bills on Vote of Credit - :1,C00,(V)
Re-payment of Sum advanced to l'crtugal .. ritot;
Lenin .. - - - 11,C;'., &

Total lig%ls and Means - 4:Jia,c;l
• Suprbes - - 47,$ 6,C:!
Surplus Ways and' tlcans . 1:)C,C.13
- -

He then proceeded to state the terms on wlteli the
Loan had been contracted for. The Loan altogether
-was £14,600,000. Of this sum 511,000,000 had
been raised for Great Britain, £3,000,000 for Ireland,
and £600,000 for the Loan to the Ring of rtugal.
It gave him great satisfaction to be able to state the
wry favourable terms which had been obtained for
the public. The Loan bad been contracted fi.r
partly in fhb 4 per cents. partly in the 3 per cents.
and partly in a long annuity. For every 1001. lab.
scribed, there had been granted 601. 4 per cents. (.01.
3 per cents. reduced, and in a long annuity Bs. 10d.
per annum. The amount of interest upon this Loa
was no more than 41. 12s. 10d. per cent. a rate ;-t
which money had hardly ever been borrowed by ..F.t
country—la rate at which hardly any individual could
borrow money upon the most sufficient security.
total capit tl which would be created by the Loan to
Great Britain was about 13 millions. He should ha'e
stated, that the Loan of £600,000 to Portugal h:.d
been furnished upon the security of paying 5 per cert.
on the sum fur the reduction of the debt. The Re-
venues of the Island of Madeira, as had been already
stated, were to be mortgaged for the payment, at d
their was also a contract to furnish a certain porticn
of Brazil produce, with a view to the same object.
The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to
state the charge upon the amount of capital funded
for the Loan, including also the capital created 1 v
the funding ofEichequer Bills. The charga-upen both
these funded capitals would amount to X 1,14-6,666.
He next, for the sake of crmparison, stated the
rates at which the Exchequer Bills and the Loans
had been funded, for this year and the lest. Last
year only four millions of Exchequer Bills lad bun
funded. In the present year ne *rly eight millions had
been funded. Yet, notwithstanding this difference in
the sums funded though the amount in the present
year was nearly double that of the last year, the rate
for the present year WAS more favourable.

Rate of Interest upon Exchequer Bills funded
last year - -
! Rate of Interest on Exchequer Bids funded in the
prerent year - - C C 10
j The Loan which had been contracted for last year,
amounted only to eight millions, while the Loan in
I
I the present year for Great Britain was eleven million,
i yet the rate was more favoufabie in the present year.
I Rate of luturest upon the Loan o 1 tight millions
I funded last year - -
Rate of Inter: sr upon the Loan of eleven millions
funded in the present yt-hr - 4 12 10
The comparative advantage which the public en-
joyed in the Loan of this year, could not tail to afford
the highest gratification, as it affiTded the strongest
proof of the stability of public credit. It famished
the most convincing proof that the pressure upon tl:e
resources of this country was not such as to prevent
it from making those exertions which the circum•
stances of the times called fOr. It proved, that all le
:•measures which bad been rendered necessary in come.
quence of the line of policy adopted by the enemy,
had not depressed, but rather served to advance pub.
lie credit. Shewing in truth, that these measures
. had been favourable to the country. The total charge
upoh C•ie Loans, &c. of the last and present years,
including Sinking Fund, &c. was as follows :
Charge for the last year - £5 18 9
lhartie for the present year - 517 11
The total amount of Stock created last year was up.
wards (.f 13 millions. The amount of Stock created
in the present year was upwards of 21 millions, and
though the-amount of the present year was higher,
vet the rate of interest was lower and more favour.,bie
to the public.
In addition to this, he had to state, that the Con-
tractors too had made a favourable bargain, for they
were selling at a premium of one and a half per cent.
He was now to state the amount of the charge upon
the Stock created for the present year. That charge
was, AS he had already stated, 1,14.0,0001. A Bill had
passed the House, or was in its progress, far the c..nso-
lidation of the Customs, from winch it was ~..),pcc•
ted that 103,0001. would be saved. Whets he tout

£6 5

:(2.114 6

0.5 as the sum to he saved by the improvAd mode of
was persuaded that lae Was reasonably I
managentent,he
within the mark. A small addition might also, per-
-1,1 be expected from the Consolidation of the War
7.7ses in the same way. This would meet so much
f the charge, and then the amount to he provided
he abont A. 1,140,000. The Right lion.
14::71ernan observod, that in order to provide for
this he would recur to the Noble Lord's (H. Petty)
and charge it upon a portion or the existing
IVA Taxes, which would be pledged to the necessary
t.sieut With regard to the Vote of Credit, from the
state of the Continent, it was impossible to f atm any
distinct +-tined estimate of what sums might be
warded for the support of our allies, or what it might
he prthient to furnish. Bearing in mind the situa-
,:ol in which affairs stood, whatever desire there might
b 2 to assist the nations of the Continent in their strug-
., ,Or independence, that situation did not seem to
bell out any prospect that useful assistance could be
Aiforded beyond the amount of the Vote of Credit._
'Dough no formal treaty had been made with Aus-
tra, yet some arrangement had been adopted ; and
expectations had been raised that this country would
be ready to assist her. Acting upon that expectation,
At:stria had ventured, without any authority however,
to draw upon this country to a limited amount, and
bills drawn by he:. had arrived at the Treasury.—
These had not been paid till the fact was communi-
cated to the House. But the fact having been commu-
s'cated. it was proper to state, that it was the opinion
riGoverament that they ought to be paid, and th.
Vote of Credit would furnish the means of doing so.
He trusted the House would be of opinion, under all
the circumstances, that these bills ought to be ho
roared. In the mean time, it was held expedient and
proper that the fact should be communicated on the
present occasion, though no money had as yet been
actually advanced. Mr. Perceval concluded by pro-
posing the first Resolution, that £14,600,000 should
be raised by Loan for the services of the current year
for England and Ireland.
Lord HENRY PETTY said, it would be neces-
sary for the House to be fully informed as to what
share this country had, or whether she had any share.
in producing ihe event which lately took place on the
Continent ? He thought it most wise in the Righ'
Hon. Gentleman not to lay any additional burtheo,
on the people. But it was his duty most maturely le
weigh the consequences of making any advances tt
Foreign Powers, when no proof existed that they were
likely to produce any useful effect. A treaty had been
entered into with Sweden, and not one of the objects
held out in that treaty had been since carried into ef-
fect. NJ commercial arrangement was adopted, nor
any concert observei in carrying on the war. Even
the third object—that of maintaining the Swedish
army by our subsidy, was not attended to. He there
fore imrlored the House not to give into anv plan of
subsidizing Austria, unless the nature and character
f the service was made perfectly clear. However,
when the time shout come, as he hoped it would,
that we might be enabled to make some grand effort,
in common with other nations, no man would be more
reac. than himself to co-operate in promoting so great
ar, cap rats He was happy to find that there was 11C

ii,:cntion of adding to the burthens of the year. The i
prrciv;e was pertcctly conformable to what he had
Lid &wit in a former year. He must, however, no-
ti:e one thing in the present plan. It appeared that
only the common interest was to be taken out of the
war taxes, and that these taxes were likely to be per-
manently burthensome. This would load to an inde-
finite mortgage of the war taxes, and would gradu-
ally undermine the means and sinews of the war,
which he thought should not be infringed on in the
/slightest degree. As to the Loan, he partook of the
general satisfaction of the House in the terms at which
that Loan was made, but at the same time he hati
some objection to the Fund in which it was raised, on
account of the difficulty that might attend the reduc-
tion of it.

Mr. CANNING observed, it was quite impossible
to lay down an invariable rule as to the amount of
the assistance to be rendered to our allies ; the amount
could ()illy be decided by circumstances. He assured
the Kohle Lord no influence had been used to engage
Sweden in the late contest with France ; and he hoped
*would feel satisfied with no further explanation
at present. The same line of conduct had been pur.
sued with respect to Austria ; as Austria must be sup
posed to be the best judge of her own interest, so the
Government had determined not to influence her it
VI respect ; but he thought, when she applied for
assistance, it was the duty of Government to assist
her to the utmost of our power.
Mr. PONSONBY was glad to hear the assurance(
of the Right Honourable Gentleman, that no improd
per influence had been used by Ministers to induce
unfortunate Austria to engage in her present tremen
dons contest. He contended that no good could be
expected from assisting Austria money, though
much inconvenience must arise to this country from
the circumstance. It would be painful to deny Aus-
tria assistance in her last struggle, but this was a duty
he owed to the public which demanded him to declare
such an opinion,
Mr. WHITBREAD observed, there was one of
the statements of the Right Honourable Gentleman.
Upon which he must say a word or two : that was,
the loan of 4'600,000 to the Prince of the Brazils;
he would rather have given that sum at mice to his
Royal Highness, as there was not a probability of
his Royal Highness being able to liquidate the debt.
He could not agree to the loan to Austria on an)
account ; and whether it were £'50,000, Jelto,ooo,
nr £500,000, he should feel himself equally called I,
upon to oppose the grant. There was another sub-
,e:t which he was very much surprised to find
brought forward as part of the Ways and Mean.,
of the year, without any observations from the Right
Honourable Gentleman. He alluded to the Lottery.
This was one of the worst systems that was adopted;
It was one which spread ruin far and near. A report
,tad been laid upon the table of the House near two
years ago; that report contained circumstances, which,
zecessary, he would read to the House, as they
would prove beyond measure gratified at the subject
being brought before it. The Honourable Gentle-
rano went into a long statement of cases wherein sus
cure and madness had been the consequence of spetai-
:ating in the Lottery and insuring ; and observed, if
I were regular, he should then move a resolution to
abolish Lotteries altogether. He had been told, that
if Lotteries were done away, the people would stall run
tr, illegal Little Goes ; but it they did, he ykotrisoi,

the law mien be put in force. There was a law to
punish them for going to the Little Go ; but if they
w eta to the Chancellor of the Exchequer's Great Go,
no punishment was inflicted ; on the contrary, they
were received with open arms. A friend of hiss a
merchant in the city, had lost a valuable servant a
few years since, in consequence of unfortunate specu-
lations in the Lottery, and the loss of him was of
more consequence than the loss of the £lOOO which
went with him.

Mr. CANNING said, that the discussion of the
merits or demerits of lotteries, in the present instance,
was extremely inconvenient; the Honourable Gentle-
tnan might bring forward a specific motion on the
subject at any time. In answer to what had fallen
from a Noble Lord opposite relative to Austria, he
observed, that Austria never had been excited to hos-
tilities with France by this country ; the fact was, no
country could find peace with France but by tame
submission and dastardly acquiescence. The fate of
Austria was fixed, the eye of vengeance was upon
her, and whether the present struggle succeeded or
not, it was wisely tindertaken, although by us it would
not have been wisely advised.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob-
served, that he should in the report of the Commit-
tee, suggest some ideas which he-thought would do
away the objectioneagainst Lotteries, by doing away
the possibility of insuring ; the plan which he should'
propose was, that the whole of the Lottery should be
drawn in one day: the Honourable Gentleman might
at that period submit any proposition to the House
for its adoption, but the present was not the proper
time.

Mr. WILBERFORCE spoke in favour of the
abolition of Lotteries, on the ground of the injury
they do to public morals.
Sir THOMAS TU ItTON spoke in favour of lot-
teries. The Honourable Baronet observed, ay.), were
source from which .i large revenue was drawn
and if the system of instoance could be checked effec-
tually. thought they should not be lightly laid aside.
Mr. HUSKISSON observed, that the House could
come to no vote on the subject of Lotteries during the
present evening. The Right Honourable Gentleman
took a general view of the transactions attending the
Loan ; and from a comparison with that of last year,
proved the present to be a very beneficial bargain for ,
the public.

Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY spoke at considerable
length against Lotteries. The Hon. Member alluded
to the puffs in the daily papers. by which the young
and unwary were deceived ; he recollected one in par-
ticular ; the paragrapn began with recommending
economy to apprentices, and went en to state the
example of a lad, who having saved iip a sufficient.
sum, bought a sixteenth in the Lottery, which being
drawn a capital prize, he rode in his carriage. These
sort of puffs, the Hon. Baronet obsAlted, served to
induce youth to obtain money by any means for
the purpose of spending it in Lottery Tickets. By
reducing the number of days for drawing, the num-
ber of victims to insurance would probably be fewer,
less number of suicides would be committed, and
fewer of his Majesty's su:ijects would visit Botany
Bay ; but it was in vain for the Right Hon. Gentle-
man to Hatter himself with doing away the evil alto-
gether.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, if he could take the
sense of the House on the subject, he would most
willingly do it ; he should also wish to take the sense
of a Committee on the conduct of Mr. Wood.

Mr. W. SMITH was against Lotteries altogether.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought that was a good
tax wl.ich brought a large sum of money into the
Exchequer ; the Lottery did so ; but it took a larger
out of the pockets of the people, which did not go
into the Exchequer at all.

Mr. BABINGTON thought it was useless to do
away one part of the evil, and shut your eyes against
another.

The rest of the Resolution were thin put and
agreed to ; the Hou• e resumed. and the Report was
ordered to be receive.] on Homily next.

111 E I.',‘ EN I:\G

LONDON.

SATURDAY, MAY 13.

PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK
Cons. fur money, 68—acc. 67i—Othnium It pre.
Excite+ Bill; 119. prem.
PRICE OF STOCKS VEVIIIRDAY.
Bank Stock 445} India Stock
3 per Ceut. Red. CI intla Bonds, 134. 144. prem.
3 per Cent. Cons. 614 67{ 68 lawyers! 31a Cent. 6.)4
4 per Cent. :sup. Ann. 7 6
it,p,r Cent. Na% y9q 99 9411{ £xcheq. Bill•, 5s I '23 prem.
Lung Assn. 16{ 3-16 Cons, kr acc. 68E}

Some of the Dutch Papers received yesterday con-
tain Paris news t. the Bth, and aCC( unts from War.
saw to the 2 )th ult. It appears that the Austrians
entered that city on the 19th, but no mention is made
.01 that event having been preceded by a battle. An
..rticle from Vienna attributes the want of success on
the part of the Austrians in the first operations of tl-e
campaign to the untimely retreat of the Archduke
Loris, which enabled the enemy to break thelr
—lt is positlve:y stated that hostilities have reccm-
menced between Russia and Turkey--an event which
may for sane tin:e prevent the former from acting
against Austria.

Third Bulletin of the French Army has also
reached this country, dated from Burghauscn the
30th ult. It describes a few movements, but does
I.ot announce any important new events.

When Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY reached Lisbon,
on the 22c1 ult. he found that Sir Joni CR ADOCK had
already proceeded with the army under his command,
which, it is said, was advanced thirty leagues, near
Mondego Bay, towards the North of Stain. Sir AR
TIIUR had not left Lisbon on the 25th, but was expec-
ted to set out soon. Sir Join: CRADOCK, on the other
hand, in consequence of Sir ARTHUR'S arrival, was
about to lawn to Lisbon, bin had not reached that,
city when the STATIRA left it.
SOULI had, as we are info, med, sent to Gene-
ral KuLzraami in Gallicia for succours. KELLER•

MAN had answered in a letter, which was intercepted
by the Pottuguesei that he was himself in a perilous
condition, and utterly unable to furnish any assist-
ance: Sam-, it is said, had left Opotto to meet the
English army, but his force was not estimated at
more than 10,006 Men. The English atmy has twice
the number.

Oeneral Loisotc,who had rendeted himself so odious
at Lisbon under the Government of .luNori died of ex-
cessive fatigue at Oporto.