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London, England, 1812-02-01 00:00:00

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SATURDAY, FEBRUARY' 1, 1312.

House who were not qualified to hold seat there on'• fired without cause, ought to be made some amends
account of the pressure of the times, they might as for what they had endured. This had not been done. I
well at once write up in the words of the Poet over These poor men had been called upon to criminate)
their door— themselves, and this was not thought wrong—but
" Broken and Bankrupt fortunes mended here." when public peculators, Police Magistrates, and per-
He complained of the privileges of Parliament, which
,sons holding situations of some authority were called
enabled its Mtmbers to evade the payment of their I upon to give an account of themselves, they were to !
just debts, and in particular, alluded to the case of
be told in that House, that such enquiries should not '
a Member who had availed himself of the privileges be Made, lest the answers of the :parties concerned
of that House, without any intention of ever setting should go to criminate themselves. This, however,
his foot in it, to cheat his creditors of £30,000, an
be was sure of, that every Qui Tons could give the in-
fly the country. He concluded, stating it to be his formation he (sir Francis Burdett) called for, when
intention to vote for the motion. he pleased ; and, therefore, he only asked that for the I
After a few words from Mr. BARING, Mr. BRAND, House'which any common informer could get. The
and Sir JOHN NEWPORT, Mr. LOCKHART replied.— Police Magistrates might many of them have been qua- I
lifted to liolir situations when they first received
The question was then put, and the motion negatived
without a division. - them; but Walk which qualified them had since been I
STATE OF THE POLICE. lost, or sold, or otherwise disposed of, they ought not,
Sir FRANCIS BURDET'r rose in consequence
in his opinion, to be allowed longer to retain their si-
'
of the House having rescinded a part of the Order Mations, as they might be made the mere tools of the
which it had made on a former evening, on the mo-
Ministers of the-day, as far as the powers with which
tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. they were invested would go. In consequence of the
Ryder) e he was sorry he had not received the note the increase'of crimes, there.laad appeared a disposieei
of the Right Hon. Gentleman earlier than he did, to
tion in the House to do something for the better ;
;
re-
which he would at least have returned an answer. it gulation of the Police. He thought it important to
had not reached him in time to enable him to do so that end, that every information that could be given I
_ should be afforded to the House, and he should there..
before the subject was brought forward, in conse
fore move, that the part of the order which had been
quence of his having been, detained in the country by
rescinded should be reinstated. Ile accordingly moved
very important business. He thought it exceedingly
improper to rescind that part of the order which had
" That accounts he laid before the House of the quali-
fications of the Police Magistrates, specifying what!
been rescinded on the motion of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman. His object in moving for the qualifications of they are, what they were, and where."
those who had been appointed Magistrates, was to Mr. RYDER stated the ground of the Motion
which he had'made to be this : the Motion of the Ho-
shew that persons had been improperly appointed.
Incurab!e Baronet bed required that the Magistrates
He considered it as a matter of importance that the
should be called upon to spew what their qualifica-
the law which had been passed on the subject, in the
House should know if Ministers had paid attention to
[ions were, wha". they now are, and where. This he
appointments they had made. The law set forth,
I objected to, because the Act required that no Magis-
that as Magistrates of counties were entrusted with
trate should sit without having a qualification, which
qualification should be registered. To that part of
great powers,' it was expedient to make such regula-
the order which requirel what the qualification was,
lions as might keep persons in mean situations from
holding such offices. It was therefore enacted, in
he had no objection ; but to that which called for in-
the time of George the Second, " That no person i formation as to what the qualification now is, and
where, he objected, as it could only be obtained from
should act as a Magistrate, who was not possessed of
the Magistrates themselves. How did the case stand ?
property to the amount of £lOO per annum in the
county in which he was to administer justice." This Why, by 18th Geo. 11. nu Magistrate could sit with-
waso intended to prevent Magistrates becoming the out a qualification ; and whoever did so was liable
tools of Government, as he had often seen them prove to pay for every act of Magistracy the sum of one
themselves of late. At that time £lOO was a very
hundred pounds. The order called for would there-
con4derable sum, and such an aunts il income was fore require of the Magistrates to declare whether or
thought a tolerable independence, the possessor of not they had dose that which if done would subject
which was not expected to be the tool of Government, them to a heavy penalty. It called on the Magis-
trates to convict themselves if they had acted with-
at least it was thought he could not be such from
necessity. Justice at that time, he must observe, was out a qualification. Now he held that to be such a
not administered with such severity as it had been of fundamental principle of the English law, that a
late ; but at present, the country Gentlemen to whom man cannot be called upon to answer questions which
such powers as were given to Magistrates might per- go to criminate himself, that he thought that House
haps be entrusted with the greatest safety, were Ire- would be very careful how they proceeded to violate
quently overpowered by the union of the Magis- it by any order of theirs. The Honourable Baronet
'rates in adjoining Counties. His plan in moving had said that improper appointments had been made.
for the Order which had been made by the House, was IHe wished he would come forward to prove that,
to see if Ministers had any regard themselves to land not have recourse to tha practice of throwing
that law which they had got passed under pretence I out general insinuations. He knew that since he
of benefiting the public, while it imposed on them a ; had been in office he had appointed two or three I'o-
very
considerable expence. It was taken for granted i lice Magistrates. He did not know whethi r the
that enormous abuses existed in the present system, Honourable Baronet meant to say they, or any of
and he took it for granted that those abuses might them were improper ; but if he did, he hoped he '
be traced to Ministers themselves. It appeared to would cease to throw out such pitiful insinuations as
him highly desirable that the House should be put i they had heard, and for once act a manly part, and
i
in possession of all that information for which he had boldly come forward with his charge. This he ho-
called, and he should therefore certainly move that ped he would do, and in the interim he would give 1
part of the order which had been rescinded, should it as positive a denial as words could convey. Tire
Honourable Baronet had complained of the persons
be reinstated in the order. If this were not done
—if Magistrates were not called upon to skew what supposed to be concerned in the late murders, being
were their qualifications, when an enquiry into the called upon to criminate themselves. As far as he
state of the Police was instituted, how could that knew, they had stood on the same ground as all other
House pretend to look into the conduct of public of- persons who were held in'custody on strong suspi-
ficers ? How could it be done if they were not to be cion of being a party to any great offence. Under
called upon, lest their answers should criminatethem_ such circumstances the party was uniformly called
selves ? With a similar feeling, it had formerly been to give an account of himself ; but at the same time
said that Lord Melville ought not to be called upon told that he might be silent, or give such answers as
to account for the public money which he had held ihe pleased to avoid crimitiating himself. He did not
in trust for the public. To him it appeared very inn- I know that any thing had taken place on the late exa-
portant that the House should know whether the per. iminations ; it was hardly fair for the individual who
sons appointed by Ministers to fill import had been mentioned, and who was now in cimportant situa-
went, to argue the subject at present. He would,
tions, were or were not such as they ought to be,
according to their (Ministers) own act of Parliament. however, observe, that he had been examined by Mr.
If this information were withheld, what might not be Graham, and that that truly respectable Magistrate
the evil effects of such conduct on those who now had found the circumstances stated against him so
held situ itions of authority ? When it was asserted strong, that heif elt it his duty to commit him to pri-
that Magistrates ought not to be called upon to state son. He had, undoubtedly, a right to questit n the
their qualification, lest their answers should crimi-
person accused ;but in doing this he had always told
nate themselves, he would ask how had these magis- him, (for it was a rule from which he knew Mr.
tithes acted themselves on a late occasion ? Had Graham would not depart,) that he was at liberty to
their conduct been regulated by such a principle as answer as he pleased. What grounds then could
that winch it was contended, with a reference to them, the Honourable Baronet have for complaint against
t
ought to be constantly kept in view ? What had they that highly respectable individual ? So far was his
conduct from deserving censure, that he had nu hesi-
been doing in the late examinatiohs which had taken
cation in saying it was most worthy of public appro-
place of persons who were supposed to have been
concerned in the murder of the late Mr. Mares family? bation. He (Aft. Ryder) was not fully aware that
it was necessary to take up the time of the House
What had they been doing, but endeavouring to
make men, whom they had ever so little reason to
any longer ; but he could not refrain from express-
suspect, say that which might criminate themselves ? ing a wish that the Honourable Baronet would cease
to come forward as he had done that night,(and!itevas
This inquisitorial power they had been in the habit
not the first time) with unfair insinuations. It helmet
of exercising daily, and what right had they to ine
flict the punishment which they had inflicted on per- any charge to prefer, he hoped he would make it in
sons brought before them? What was now the si- a bold manly manner ; and this, he should think,
tuition of that unfortunate person who was in con-
would he more satisfactory to the feelings of the Ho-
' finement on suspicion of being concerned in the late namable Baronet himself, than coming forward with
murders, Allblas ? What was he • kept for ? Why that sort of general-insinuation, which could only be
was he put in chains, immured in a dungeon, and met by a general, equivocal, and unsatisfactory denial.
called upon every day to criminate himself? It was Mr. TIERNEY agreed with the Honourable Ba-
stated in the daily prints, that the only circumstance r onet, that it was necessary (as the Legislature had,
against him was, his inability to account for a guar. in the first instance, required that Magistrates should
ter of an hour of his time on the night on which one prove their qualification for office), they should shew
of the murders was committed. If this were all the that such qualification was still in existence. The
ground of suspicion against him, they had no right House, he contended, had the right to know the fact,
to keep him in prison ; they had no right to treat for if under any positive law any Magi ,trate had in-
him as he had been treated. Whet was it done for? curred penalties, there must be (eaid Mr. Tierney)
For what purpose but to make him criminate him- some mode of convicting him. The reason f.r refu- I
self ? All this was known-to the public, but no corn-
,sing to agree to the motion, he strongly suspected :
plaint was heard. There might, he owned, be some was, because it was kaown to the Government that
excuse found for it in the anxiety to bring those to some particular Magistrates had infringed the laws.
justice who had commuted such terrible outrages, The subject was impoi taut, and deserved notice. It r
but he thought those who suffered thus, and who kill. the mode of. coming .at the information, v.Litlt the