Star.
London, England, 1813-07-01 00:00:00

lIELSTONE ELECTION BILL.

fr. RAMSES moved the Order of the Day for the Housc.to
,e half into a Committee on this till.
-,ord ARCHIBALD HAMIL 1 ON said, be viiebed to be in-
ilged in giving a few words in explanation of what he Ltd ,aid
i a preceding evening on the subject, whist) he was afield might
we been misunderstood by several Members, as it was mist e-
oared in all the Newspapers. By using the word " corrupt;'
t did not man to impute corruption, in a pecuniary sensc, to
Nobly juke, whose conduct lad undergone a discussion, nor
sold be even impute it to the Electors, but in his opinion Ins
race and the Electors had acted corruptly, in a etaibtitutioid

of Weistoilivan fiMK MAIN/
Prove!' to have Ora hi 4 Oboes OM be .
evidince been inked ilk** hubs Other
in Cornwall, spiiecotdoet opeelly. seta whuld
He gave his most beartf -oneestronee
sure the House meld act emmediegiywroeg
such SCSAdAIOUS practices unpunished.
Mr. ROSE approved of the BUS, as being the only jot eat*
of reforming the state of the Radek of any ggploolly.
place. Such Bills would wholly supersede the Mimosa to
General Reform.
Mr. LASOELLgS said, he felt rather surprised to hear a
Noble Lord suggest the removal of the elestive franchise from
Helstone to the. West Riding of Yorkshire. For his own part,
he felt no such wish, (ipso a conviction tint lo would lead oily
to riot and confusion.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, the present leiee+s abject which
never cold come too often' before the be trusted,
that if the suggestions of his Noble Friend woltld net be adopted,
that the measure suggested by another Hon. Frilled (Mr. Bank's)
would be successful. In his own conscience, be believed that
the history of the Country did not contain aft instance of the in-
fluence of the Crown being m great as at present in promising
votes in that House. That undue and enormous influence was
no where more notorious than In the Cornish Boroughs, and he
felt happy that at length even one of those impure sources would
be shut up.
Mr. SWAN thought the proposition of the Noble Lord very
reasonable and just, and he would advise the transfer of the
Elective Franchise from any other Borough, against which cor-
ruption might be proved in future. He pledge fl himself on an
early day to tall the attention of the House to the Report of the
Committee appointed to inquire Into the circumstaLres of the last
Election for the Borough of 'fregony.
Mr. BRAND approved of the suggestion of the Noble Lord,
and hoped many other Boroughs in Cornwall would be reformed.
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, he would not at present say in
whom a new right of Election ought to beinveated, but he would
recommend that in future the right of Election should be trans-
(erred from every Body of Electors, against whom corruption
should be proved. One or two examples would he the best check
upon the Electors.
Mr. P. MOORE was very happy that after long deliberating
and debating upon the propriety of reforming the religion and
morality of our subjects abroad, we had at length turned our at-
tention a little to a branch of our own morals at home. He would
suggest nothing in particular himself, but recommended that is
every case of corruption at Elections, the offenders should be par
Malted, and the means of corruption for the future removed.
The House then went into the Committee.
Upon the subject of the first Clause, Mr. WYNNL withdrew
his Amendment, and expressed his intention, upon bringing tip
the Report, to move, That the representation be transferred
from the Borough of Helstone to the West-Riding of Yorkshire.
Upon the Clause fixing an annual income of Xto as the rate of
a qualifleation, Mr. Arm RCRO3OIIII proposed to substitute 4us.;
which, after some conversation, was agreed to.
On the Clause respecting the-returning Officer, Mr. SWAN ob-
jected to the Maier or any of the Aldermen acting as Returning
Officer, and thought the Sheriff of the County hutch more proper
for executing that office.
The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
received tomorrow.

Mr. P. GRENFAI.L gave notice aids intention to move neat
Session, that all Copper Tokens should be done away, and all
Tower Halfpence should be called in, unless Ministers should
prevent him by proposing some measure upon the subject.

PEril'lON FROM NOT.TINGIIMoi.

Sir FRANCIS BURDETT said, that he had a Petition to pre-
sent from the Town of Nottingham, which, praying for a re-
form in the Representation of the People of England in that
House, seemed to him of the highest importance. Before he
presented it, be was desirous of saying a few words, as the Pe-
tition was printed, and as one from the same place in favour of
Peace, being also printed, had been rejected on that account.—
The Petition was, in all other respects, unobjectionable, being
signed in the proper and usual mode. He knew that the prat:-
tice of the House was against receiving printed Petitions; but he
could net think the rractice justly founded, either in the reaton '
of the thing, or in the attention which the House was. accord-
ing to the Bill of Rights, bound to give to all Petitions com-
plainipg of grievances : he, therefore, conceived, unless he heard]
a satisfactory reason to the contrary, that the House would con-
sent to receive the Petition.

The SPEAKER here observed, that, according to the prac-
tice of the House, printed retitIOSIS had been uniformly rejtc-
lel: an attempt had, indeed, been made, on the sth of May,
1793, to alter the practice; but the sense of the House was de-
cidedly against it.

Lord (;AS PLEREAGH saw no cause nor specific ground for
Inducing the House to deviate from its constant practice. If the
Petitioners had any grievances to represent, and seriously wished
(cr the redress of them, it certainly could be no difficult matter
to state them in the customary way. The obstacle was, in fact,
raised by themselves, who took the unnecessary trouble of print-
ing that which it was merely rtspiisite to write.
Lord RANCLIFFE saw no difference between printed and
writtea Petitions, when the redress of grievances and the inter-
ference of Parliament were constitutionally sought.
Mr. JOHN SMITH was aware of the practice of the House
not to receive printed Petitions; yet he could not perceive that
the practice was founded in the truth and consistency which
calved upon the House to listen'at all times, and with every pos.
bible attention, to the complaints and prayers of the People.
Mr. ABERCROMBY spoke at some length against receiving
the Petition, which was the more objectionable, as it carte front
persons who were perfectly aware of the practice, having had, on
a former occasion, their Petition in favour of Peace rejected upon
the same principle.
Mr. WHITBREAD, after taking a short review of the argu-
ments Oil both sides, was of opinion that the House should conic'
to a decision, in order that the question might be finally set at
rest.

Mr. BATHURST opposed the receiving of the Petition, on
the ground pf its being printed, which was contrary to the forms
of the House.

Mr. C. WYNNE was against the Petition, it having been long
ago resolved, that only written Petitions should be received. So
many year, practice, be thought sufficient as to the point of form,
a deviation from which might lead to many difficulties.
Mr. CANNING said, that if the Yeti ion had appeared to have
been drawn up in ignorance of the customs of the House, he
should have been induced to vote for receiving it, with a specific
note of its being contrary to the usual practice. It was unne-
cessary to discuss whether the custom was wise and reasonable
or not; for every Court had a right to expect that Its own regu-
lations would be contornied to. He was as on.ious as any to
throw open the doors of that House to all Petitioners; but he
could not think it all improper impediment, if the House decided
as to the mode of their ben presented, aud refused to alter its
established forma.

Sir FRANCIS BURDEJT replied to the arguments against
the Petition, and coutended that no good ground had been 134
on which to refuse it. The Petition had been long in London,
waiving the event of the Nubia Lord's (133::cliffe) making the
motion which he had put off: it was therefore sent in ignorance
of the supposed customs ot the House. This was not au indivi-
dual, hut a public Petition. No man individually could com-
plain of the corruption in the Representation of that Haute : it
was a public matter, and the very objtoctions furnished a ground
for taking this mode in a peaceable and constitutional way.—
Where could be the object' en to any set of men peaceably endea-
vouring to obtain the sentiments of others on an important sub-
ject, in order to present cloy. to the Howse. It would be his
duty to press the question to a recision. As to an old resolution,
the House was not bound by that which had not the force of a
standing order. 'lke Belief Rights took no notice ot it, and why
might no' the House of Commons he addressed in print, when
by the established law the vent Y was so addressed? Atter rad.
•us other observattolis, he stated his intention, at an early pe-
riod nest Session, to bring the subject of the Petition before
Parliament.

Mr. CROKER sail, they were going to divide on what was,
in fact, the rule of the House.

Sir F. BURDE•I'I• said it was no rule, but only a practice.
Mr. CItOKER then said, it was on the praotice.
Ou the eivisiou, the numbtrs were—Against receiving the Pe.
titiuu, 75; fur it, 117Majuitty,

VOTE OF CREDIT.

On the report nt the Committee on the Prince Re-
gent's Message, for granting the sum ot Five Miklions,
as 4 VOW ot Credit, being brought up,
Mr. WHI I'BRE.AII roi.e. to make a few observe-
tiona‘ atter which, iu a turthec stage, should wove
an Addresa to. the Wince Regent. - period of he
sission Wu tar advauced, dud *re were otker real-)

V•

for which be did not wish to detain
hepust observe, that the sum asked
Last year three t=rillions were thought
; but it, had not been found enough,
bad thought it would prove quite ade-
year we had a frightful sum for army
extraordinaries, and now we were to close the scene
with a vote of five millions. Early in the Session he
had intimated his opinion respecting the great work
of peace. Events had oecurrechnot in human con-1
temptation, by the destruction of the French army,
land the consequent reduction of the power of France,
Iwhich could not have been effected by merely htiman
means. He abstained from proposing any resolution,
well persuaded of the effect of statements, that dis-
cussions on the subject were prejudicial. While this
'weighed with him, he saw. no disposition to take ad-
vantage of the circumstances with which PROVIDENCE
had favoured us; but a wild ides of reducing France
not by negociation, but by force. Instead at looking
to an effort for peace, when it might have been ex-
pected that a better peace could be made than could
have been looked for many antecedent years, he found 1
the wild imaginary hope, that by the disasters of the
French Ruler, he bad lost all his dominion over
France, and that he was rendered totally unable to
re-establish his own greatness, and to restore his mi-
litary fame and reputation. His armies had abso-
lutely been dispersed and pursued almost to theancient
boundaries of France. In this crisis, instead of being
destroyed, he had procured a gigantic exertion in
France, and had again encountered the Allies with
fresh levies. The Allies were then driven, certainly i
against their will, from their positions; they lost two
battles on the Elbe, and were pursued nearly ee the
Oder. Then again it seemed necessary to interfeagi
but afterwards came the armistice. Yet he abstain id
from any motion. Indeed, the Swedish treaty seemed '
to throw every thing into inextricable confusion. But
now, on this vote of confidence, he felt it his duty to
express is moderate terms his opinions, without pres-
sing a division. He thought this still more necessary,
if the recent intelligence from the Peninsula were,
true. The misfortune was, that if France were emi-
nently successful, then we were told that offers of
peace did not become us ; and that if she were re-1
duced in power, there was nothing but enthusiastic
madness about dethroning Bonaparte, and restoring
the Bourbons. The Noble Lord had disclaimed the
Proclamation of the Chief of that Family ; but it
seemed to be de prevailing opinion of the Court, when
ever any reverse happened to France, that there would 'I
be a speedy end to all her fearful power, and a dethrone-
ment of the French Emperor. Were there no other '
grounds for his opinion, the incapacity of .those who
acted against France in this great contest, to obtain
the equilibrium of Europe, would be sufficient for
' him. He saw nothing in their conduct to lead him
to suppose that they could confer real benefits upon,
and secure the liberties of Europe. He did not see
that this object was more at heart on one side than on
the other. The conduct of the Allied Powers, of
Russia, Prussia, England, and Sweden, gave an illus-
tration of this. When the French armies were acf
vancing into Russia, and one or other of her capitals
was expected to be taken, the question of Finland oc-
curred to Russia, and she negotiated with Sweden.--
He believed, as the Noble Lord bad said, that by this
she brought forces which greatly contributed to her'
successes. But when Russia cried out to all Europe.
against the lust of power, and desire of conquest, and
declared herself the liberator of Europe ; sending out
her armies to fight for the liberties of the world, and 1
the common cause of all—she might have set a great
example, and produced effects, which, by a contrary
conduct, had been rendered impossible. Her acqui-
sition of Finland was unjustifiable, and Sweden de-1
manded an equivalent for it, which was Norway, a 1
country, which it seemed absurd to speak of as a ne-
cessary security for Sweden. Had Finland been given
back to Sweden, then Denmark might have had her
dominions guaranteed ; and by that act of justice, po-
licy, and discretion, the three Northern Powers would
have been conciliated, and might have co-operated
against France; whereas a source of discord was esta b.
fished, and it appeared impossible now to dissever
Denmark from France. In another quarter, the prin-
ciple of justice might have been exhibited, by the re.
storation of Poland on the part of Russia, Prussia,
and Austria. If the expectations of it had been held
out, coupled with the restoration of Finland, the Al-
lies could have put on a good face, in seeking for the
restoration of the debited equilibrium. Now, he hoped
for a peace on the Continent, and that the Court of
St. James's would so far accede as to co-operate in
the work : but not having that confidence he might
wish to have iii our Councils, he should feel it his duty,
when the Vote of Credit should be agreed to, to move
a temperate address on tie subject.
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it, on all ac-
counts, bettet not to enter into details on the points
noticed by the last speaker, especially as he had him-
self seen tit to withdraw his intended motion on the
subject. The expence of the vote was certainly great,
and it would be a splendid. exertion of liberal policy.
He admitted that the Hon. Gentleman had shown as
much forbearance as could be expected from him,
considering his political views: He believed him to
feel as-much fur his country's pride and honour as
any other man; but his views concerning peace were
rather peculiar, since he thought that negociation
could always be entered upon ; and never, as far as
he ( Lord Castlereagh) could recollect, was it at-
tempted, but that such was the temper of the Hon.
Member respecting peace, that he ever considered
his own Government as the patty placing impedi-
ments in itt way.—(Hear, hear I from Mr. Whit-
bread).—He did not impute to him a less proud feel-
ing than to any other; hut his opinions had certainly
differed from those of Parliament, and of the coun-
try. His mind was always so tinctured on the par-
ticular subject, that he was always for pacific prc,po-
, rtions : but always against those made by his own
Government.— ( Hear, hear). —The moment fur peace
which our Government had always looked to, was
that in which they could see the Ruler of France dis-
posed sincerely to enter into a negotiation for that
object, with the view of making a fair peace, pro-
' rinsing a reasonable duration; which should be the
view of any practicable pacification. It the Hon.
Member were not deaf to what passed on the other
side of the water, he would have read in a formal
official instrument of Bonaparte, after his Alp;
from Russia, a uotification of the terms on which
one he would listen to peace: among which, was.
53 that his dynasty must reign in Stain! 4s.

ise. Being upon his legs, he would once more suggest a clause,
throw the right of election entirely out of the hands cf the
ple or Hebtone, and the inhabonis of tlae adjacent hundred,
to transfcr it to the freeholder'. of the West Riding of
e.
he Merril; of TAVISTOC!C would not orpoke the Berl, btt-
ebt the House ought not to let the present opporiun ty
ins the state of our Represtniatlr in general esrope,
he felt eonfldent wookilead to a Itirliarne*ary Reflux.
.W.SislitTli said, that at the Au //Action hr the4h-

Ow Howse p Ut
Miler OM isight•
it lit tho &MO POI*
Ptak, Isavelfisairsimc, 1161,11Py large,
to the am, awl lie was alarge sliktand
woos V tbiry posed by thou& sone bac
`quite. This ye;