Star.
London, England, 1813-11-09 00:00:00

CONTINENTAL TREATIES.

the

Lord CASTLEREAGH, at the Bar of the
House, presented from his Royal Highness the
Prince Regent, copies of three Conventions entered
into on the part of his Britannic Majesty : the first
with his Prussian Majesty, dated the 14th June,
1813: the second with his Majesty the Emperor of
all the Russias, dated 15th June, 1813 ; and the third
also with his Majesty the Emperor of all the Rus-
sias, dated tith July, 1813.
Lord CASTLEREAGH, in moving that these
Papers should lie on the Table„took the opportunity
of saying a few words on the state in which the coun-
try stood with tweet to this subject. The Treaties,
copies of which he had just had the honour to pre-
sent, provided the aid which the Powers with whom
they were contracted should derive from British cre-
dit on the Continent, subject to certain regulations-
-1 which regulations were comprised in subsequent con-
! ventions, that had not been exchanged, although for-
! mally signed.. It was his intention, after the present
motion was disposed of, to move for the production
of those subsequent Conventions, in order that the
House might have a view of the whole of the details
' on which they might make a provision contingent on
1 the exchange of the last-mentioned Conventions.
The Papers were ordered to lie on the table.
Lord CASTLEREAGH gage notice, that on
Monday next he would move to refer them to the
Committee of Supply.
1 An Mumble 444 u; wm *Di on iho Motion of

Lord CA:Tullman, mined to be preeered to his
Royetititbne!‘ the Mace Regent, praying that he
wookl be graciously pawed to order the three Con.
supplementary to the above to be laid before

SINECURE OP/ICES RILL.
On the Motion of Mr. BASTIN. the Resolution of
the House in 180, on 'the subject of Sinecures, haw
ing been yead by the Clerk
Mr. BANKES observed, that from the period of
that Resolution a series of Bilis had been passed by
the House for suspending the power of the Crown out
the subject. The Act of last Session would expire
some time in February. It being etinot, there.
fore, to adopt a new measure ore period, be
should move for leave to bring in a Bill to continue
the said Act for a time to be limited.—Leave was
granted.
THE SPEAKER'S SPEECH.
Mr. H. SUMNER, in pursuance of the Notice
which he glee on Saturday, rose to make a motion,
the adoption of which could not, in his opinion, be
postponed, consistently with the dignity of the House
and of the Right Hon. Gentleman who sat in the
Chair. In the present stage of the business, there was
but one step which he thought it possible to take—
namely, to endeavour to put the House in possession
of the document on which a Noble Lord had intima-
ted that his observations would be made. Those on
, the one band who thought with the Noble Lord that
I the speech made by the Speaker. at the Bar of the
House of Lords, at the close of the last Session, con-
tained matter liable to animadversion ; and those on
the other who were of opinion that it was free from
blame, or even entitled to praise, must equally feel
the impassibility of discussing the subject until an au-
thentic copy of the speech should be on the table.—
Although certainly it could noF be considered an offi-
cial document, yet it had not been unusual in that
House, under similar circumstances, to move that
I Mr. Speaker be desired to print any speech which he
I had so delivered. That was the course which he in-
tended to adopt on the present occasion. It might
be expected that be should open to the House the
ulterior views that he might entertain on the produc-
tion of the document. On this subject he would take
the liberty of putting several questions to the Noble
Lord who had given notice of a motion after the re-
cess, and on the answers to those questions would de-
pend the line of conduct which he should prescribe
for himself. From the known candour and libera-

lity of that Noble Lord, both in public and in pri-
vate life, he had no doubt that he would not hesitate
to inform the House, whether the observations which
he had declared it was his intention to make on the
Speech of the Speaker at the bar of the House of
Lords, tended to criminate the Speaker, either by
imputing to him that he had acted without precedent
in expounding the opinions of that House, or, admit-
ting that he
_had followed precedent, by charging
him with an unfaithful exposition of that opinion.—
If either of these objects was that of the Noble Lord,
then, identified as the honour and purity of the
Speaker'sl character were with the dignity of their
proceedings, it would, in his opinion, be imperative
on the House to enter on an investigation of the me-
rits of the case at a period much earlier than that
fixed by the Noble Lord. If, on the other hand, the
Noble Lord had no other object in the motion of
which he had given notice, than to make it a vehicle
for remark on the motives which had induced the
House to reject the Catholic Bill, thereby indirectly I
involving a re.consideration of the Catholic Question,
it was a matter of indifference, whether the subject
should be discussed at present, or at the period fixed
on by the Noble Lord, who had indeed assigned as
Ithe cause of the delay of his motion the absence of
the Members of the sister country, who were most
nearly interested in the decision of that question.—
For his part he conceived that it was the duty of the
Irish Members to be present at the commencement
of the Session. If the object of the Noble Lord was
that which he had first described, the House ought
not to wait for their arrival; if his object was merely
the indirect revival of the Catholic Question, then it
might be desirable to postpone the discussion until
those could attend who would be disposed to take so
large a share in it. Trusting that the House would
grant him the indulgence of making any farther re-
marks which the reply of the Noble Lord might reit-
' der necessary, be would now content himselt with
moving—t 6 That the Speaker be desired to print the
Speech made by him to the Prince Regent at the bar
of the House of Lords, on Tharsday, the 22d July,
1813, on presenting several Money Bills, which then
received the Royal Assent."
As the SPEAKER was reading the motion,
Mr. TIERNEY wished to know whether the Ho-
nourable Mover meant that the Speech should be
printed with the votes, or merely for the informa-
tion of the House ? If the former, it should be re-
collected that that was always considered as a mark
of approbation, and be was sure that the Honour-
able Move; did not mean that the Speech of the
Speaker should be approved until it had been con-
sidered. If it was intended merely to print the
Speech for the purpose of putting it into the hands of
Members, to that proposition no objectioncould apply.
Mr. SUMNER was proceeding to explain his ob-
ject, when
Mr. BATHURST observed, that there was no
question before the House.
The SPEAKER then read the motion; upon which
Mr. SUMNER said, he had no hesitation in stat-
ing, that his sole and exclusive object was to bring
before the House the document on which the Noble
Member had declared it to be his intention, at a fu-
ture period, to observe. He repeated, that this step
appeared to him to be called for by the honour and
dignity of Parliament. At the same time it would
be but fair and candid to add, that in conformity to
usage on such occasions the Speech must be entered
on the Journals of the House. That proceeding, how-
ever, would by no means imply the approbation of
the House of its contents.
Mr. BANKES expressed himself to be distinctly
of the same opinion. was not to be inferred, be-
cause the ordinary mode of Inserting the Speech in
the Journals could not be departed from that the
approbation of the House was thereby implied. The
Speech made in 1777, at the bar of the House of
Lords by Sir Fletcher Norton, was printed with the
votes; but was that considered to imply the appro-
bation of Parliament? By no means. In the course
of that same Session several Members animadverted
vla Sir Non pies Speech, and although eventually

the Homo Clllll9 to a vote of approbation on the sub-
ject, thelvery discussion proved that it would have
been equally competent to them to come to a vote of
disapprobation. Feeling the impossibility of adopt-
ing any her mode, consistently with Parliamentary
practice, he had himself assisted his Hon. Friend in
drawing out the motion before the House.
Me. TIERNEY, notwithstanding the precedent
adduced by the Hon. Gentleman, still contended that
the admission into the Journals, of a Speech by the
Speaker, bad always been deemed a mark of the ap-
probation of the House. Without intending the
slightest personal disrespect to the Speaker, he must
protest against this being considered to be the case
is the present instance. For his part he was at a loss
Al conceive what inconvenience could be occasioned
by the production of the Speech as a simple docu-
ascot;
Mr. ROSE detailed the history of the proceedings
on the speech made by Sir Fletcher Norton in 1777.
The printing of that speech by no means implied the
approbation of the House. It was un.de on the 7th of
May. On the 9th of May, only two days alter, came
on the question of its tneriu; and although the thanks
lithe House of Common were voted to Jai F. Norton
for the speech, yet the discussion afforded abundant
proof, that if in the present insoumetheHousefollowed
the precedent of 1777, they would sot be precluded
from expressing a treeopinion on the speech in question.
Lord MORPETH said, that having bear an
pointedly called upon by the Hun. Mover, he must
be permitted to say a few words or. a subject in which,
as he had stated on giving his notice, the honour a:.4
dignity of Parliament were so deeply involved. But
before he answered the questions whiclaJaad Leen pa:
to him, he begged to be allowed to say a single word
respecting a supposed connection between his notice
and some expressions that had fallen on the s tme eve°.
ing from the Honourable Member for Bedford. He
assured the House that he was perfectly unaware of
the intention of the Honourable Member for Bedford
to say any thing on the subject ; he had received no
notice of such an intention. There could therefore
be no connection of the kind alluded to. When the
Speaker bad, with so much propriety (in reply to the
observations made by the Honourable Member for
Bedford) declared his readiness to meet any charge
that might be preferred against him on the subject,
he (Lord Morpeth) had thought it his duty, enter-
' tainuting the opinions which he did entertain, to come
forward-and intimate his intention, at a subsequent
period, to bring the question under the consideration
of Parliament. With respect to the inquiries made
by the Honourable Member for Surrey, he was ap.
prehensive that he could not furnish the Honourable
Gentleman with information that would pro* saris.
factory to him. He was not at present prepared to
lay before the House the scope and extent, much less
the frame and construction of the motion that it was
his intention to submit to them. This, however, he -
was prepared to say—that if he was rightly informed
of the nature of the speech made by ;be Speaker at
the bar of the House of Lords, in his view of the
subject that speech conveyed expressions which, both
on parliamentary and on constitutional grounds, were
extremely questionable ; and which deserved the se.
rious attention and the solemn investigation of a full
House of Commons—a House of Commons which
should contain those Members who were favourable
to the measure to which the expression be alluded to
referred, as well as those inimical to it. • With that
conviction and impression he had given his notice for
an early period alter the recess, and should persevere
in making his motion at that period, unless some
other proceeding, on the part of the House, should .
prevent him from doing so. It could scarcely be
necessary for hire to say, that in giving his notice he
'had abstained from all harsh expressions towards the
distinguished individual who was the object. He
hadbeen too long a Member of that House, and had •
too frequently witnessed the general excellence of the
manner in which that individual had discharged the
high duties entrusted to him, to enter on au investi-
gation of any part of his official conduct with other
sentiments than those of the deepest respect.
Mr. B. BATHURST shewed,•that the Noble
Lord's conduct was calculated to place the House in
a very awkward situation. For the Noble Lord had
distinctly alledged, that the speech of the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman in the Chair, on the occasion
alluded to, was extremely questionable, and yet be
proposed to postpone, to a distant day, the decision
of a charge ao materially affecting the dignity of the
House and the character of the Right Honourable
Gentleman who held the high office of presidingg, over
its deliberations. Now he would put it to the House,
whether it would be fitting or fair to pursuseanch a
'line of proceeding towards any iudividual whatever,
whose conduct might be brought under the consider.,
don of that or of any candid assembly ? On this
occasion he felt himself at hoerty to urge that which
be was before prevented from stating, when he had
endeavoured, perhaps irregularly, to press upon the
attention of the House. But although at that time,
namely, when the Noble Lord gave notice of his •
motion, be (Mr. Bathurst) was properly interrupted,
yet it must be in the recollection of the Noble Lord
and others, from whom the interruption proceeded,
that a practice had long prevailed of putting questions
to individual Members when there was no motion
whatever before the House. He, therefore, although no
doubt, not strictly regular, did not, in putting a ques-
tion to the Noble Lord respecting the nature of his
intended motion, deviate from a Tong permitted prac-
tice. But to revert to the subject immediately under
the consideration of the House, he thought that it
involved a question of privilege, and was it fair that
on such a question, particularly the Speaker, whose.
peculiar duty it was to take care of the privileges o:
that House, should for so long a period have the ct it-
sure even by implication, suspended over his
•of having deliberately violated those privileges. He
was aware that no Member could be forced to bring_
. any motion into discussion sooner than lie himself
thought expedient ; but he submitted it to the can-
t I dour of the Noble Lord, whether, as it might be
deemed analogous, any charge were made against
any public Minister; whether, if it were alledged in
that House that any letter addressed by one !Alias=
to another, or even to a subordinate officer, container
something "extremely questionable," it would be con
ceived fair and liberal to deny the individual accused.
the earliest possible opportunity of vindicating inm•
self against the accusation ; whether it not:L.:be jut:
to put off the trial of the accused to an indefinite ps
nod If such a course were not just, and be am-

T

rite itAsekt et eofteueevuet &atom %ea e -•iee,Oepoe,tele.
mod that no one would venture to assert it, bow Mid akin,eld iieetat WV 'iatittlifstß itfie Ord,* - • a& e •te 111%.
I
it be justifiable to postpone, as the Noble Lord propo. pounder•of4}ie sentiments of that House. These' ene
ced, the investigation of such a serious charge as that• thaws, however, must be Wily ascerthitted, . and 'be
'whicb he had that night advanced against an officer 'hoped that neither the dignity of the Houseemor ehat
of the `highest distinction in that assembly ? How; of the Right Hon. Gentleman in the Chair, would;
could it be warrantable to hold up the conduct of., be compromised, by attempting in any sorrepti#4
such .an-exalted Officer (without any referenceto his. manner theoogh: a ivote-in's tithe House, and in the
personal character), so long untried and unheard, td absence of the Irish Members, to avert theample
general suspicion, or • implied censure ??--(Crier I:g.. and just investigation of such• an important subject;
Hear, hear! en the Minister:id .11:ticIto.)—Of such con- Yet-hi. was not, be owned, friendly to the motion at
duct he (Mr,' B.) thought the House and the Right preeent, heed:lse. he apprehended that the object; in
Hon. Gentleman in the Chair entitled to complain. desiring-the productidn. of this Paper, might be pre-
Upon the merits of 'the question; to which the expres. maturely to press the dispassion alluded 'to. With'
ei me in. thee speech objected to by the Noble Lord respect- to the quotient, the arglitentittive speech of
were. understood to apply,' he meant to make no ob- the Right Hon. Gentlemart who spoke latt did not
servatiorr whatever- Thaterestielt ought nab in.his serve to convince his'mind that the Speaker could be
judgfirent, to be at all taken into consideration, in -atithorized to make use of such expressions as were
viewiog the speech allndedeo. It ives, indeed, in his -on this occasion referred to. * Indeedthe Right Hon.
view, a Matter of indifference what were the merits of Gentleman's interpretation of the recedients he had
the question in a casewhich ought to be considered in alluded to appeared quiteerroneOuei these precedents'
the abstriet, without any reference to that questions eltvipusly implying that the Spea'ker's authority re-
Of the precise point in the speech to*whiclethe Noble eel to acts done, bin that to ;sets *done, he had
Lord .particularly objected, he ; (Mr. B.) was not ~ no auttority whateverto'stchiett. Upon the allusion
aware; but he hoped that, in-theconsideration of that . theneeehich waitepciettcleto:hatre been made by the'
point, it. was' not meant to discuss by a side wind n .1 Speaker' in this caie, h' fill himself justified to im-
question of-indisputable importance, or to excite and pugn that Right_ Hon: Gentleman's authority. Noe
inflate dissentiene and animosities'which it was so thing in. fact had been done to warrant the' allusion.
much more desirable-to.heal and allay.' He, for him- He denied, indeed, that any proceeding had been
self, had no hesitation in saying, that it Would be un- taken 'by. the 'House ipon the important question
fair to .mix the discussion of the Catholic questiba alluded to; of which the *Right Hon. Gentleman in
with the merits of the motion to which the Noble the Chair could, etirietly speaking; have any cogni-
Lord's notice referred, and with which it could have zante—biet ltereeheeirOuld tie understood to speak of,
eve necessary connection. It the object of the. Noble bin., as ripeatilicofficer, and ntit as an individual Member.
Lord'. motion was to censure the Speaker for any . Recurring' to the =Licit, .the Hpnourable Member
4, excess of duty," or departure from Parliamentary repeated the expressioinof his hope; th.t if the motion
practice, that ought to be stated nt once, and imme- were acceded to no Proceeding Would be taken, on
diately investigated, without referring to the Catholic the production Of this Oper, inconsistent with the dig.
question; 'Such reference, indeed, being abstained' pity of the House. *--1-le hoped also that it was not the
from as irrevaleat to the motion, that motion might object of the Honoureble Mover or his advisers to
be one into without waiting fur the attendance of }stele etny motion in. this'business with a view to ob-
the Irish MeMbers; but if it were resolved to mix the thin someettessime or appeerameenf strength to their
two questions, the attendance should be as full as pos- aide eilth regard to the Catholic question. Yet he
Bible. Sucha discussion 'ought indeed to be preceded contd eethelP frying that there was ground for ap-
by a Call of the House; while, if the Noble Lord's peeltension, if 'the discussion which the Noble Lord's
motion referred only to privilege, as it ought, the -notice lewd' in' view were pressed, particularly in the
House, as at present attended, must be regarded as absence of the Irish Members. .But the Honourable
fully competent to pronounce a correct decision, and Mover had observed, that the Irish Members ought
the trial should be immediately proceeded upon ; for •to be present in the House, and to be sure it was very
as the case appeared, there ntight be doubts as to the well for the Representative of a County immediately
Speaker's fitness for the high office which he had SO adjoining the metropolis to make such an assertion
long. occupied. Certainly what had occurtcd seemed With regard to those Representatives whose retie
calculated to excite such doubts in some 'melds. The dence was at so many hundred miles distant. It
proposed postponement then admitted, in his view, of
.was undoubtedly true, that since the Union the
no justification, particularly "on the grounds stated by I, wk Members were called upon to - attend their
the Noble Losd. But at whatever time, or under . duty in that House, but cute consideration was
whatever circumstances, it was meant to bring the due. to Gentlemen . who resided At such a distance,
Noble Lord's motion. under discussion, it was (AM- particularly when Parliament was convened .at so
seedy necessary to have the document to which the early a period, and therefore the Irish Members'
motion before the House alluded, and the production did not-quite deserve the criticism of the Honourable'
of that document was the only object of the motion 1 Mover, who could with so little inconvenience attend
under consideration. Ot coiirse,*then, that motion the meetings of that House. With respect to the
could not be consistently opposed. AS to the cha- I.Noble Lord behind him, he had certainly had no
ratter of the'speech alluded to, he should not at pre- concert or communication whatever with that Noble
sent enter into the consideratiOn of it,. but he must ob- Lord before he made the observation alluded to on
serve, that no instructions were ever offered to any the first day of the Sessions. He had indeed heard
Speaket, as to what he should say on presenting Mo- 'at the close of the lest Sessions, that it was the inten-
ney Bills for the Royal Assent, and according to the tion of the Noble Loire to submit a motion to the
able statement of precedents„ drawn up by an Officer House respecting the Speaker's speech, and if he
of the,House (Mr. Hatsell), it was usual with Speak- had not so heard he might probably himself have felt
ers, on presenting the Money Bills, to dilate on other it his duty to,,being. the
,euelject under 'discussion.—
measures, which had engaged* the attention of the
.13tit as to the conduct of ,the Noble Lord on the occa-
i:louse in the course of the Sessions, and this too-with. *skin, he might possibly feel himself in some difficulty,
out any previous instructions. In the couise of . such whether he ought to give notice of his intention ein-
observations, then, a Speaker might impute motiv
men mediately on the opening of the. Sessions, or postpone,
to the conduct of the Majority or Minority in the that notice until after the;recesse ,Had he really telt,
adoption or rejection of certaitimeasures, withcut in- such difficulty; the Noble isord's. decision was, be-
curring or deserving any censure. There were, in- yond question, the more eligible, and the Honourable
deed, but few instances on recotd, in which the mover's interference with him was quite without pre-
' speeches delivered on such occasions were ever brought' cedenr; ' The Hon Moyer and others had complain-
'under the consideration of that House. The 'speeches ed'of thee Noble Lord's having uttered' a serious cen.
so delivered in 1715 and 1745 were to be found on sure „pa the Speaker, whereas iu point of fact the
the Journals, and these speeches were not confined NO bleleord'soriginal notice was a simple annunciation
merely. to observations on Money Bills, nor was theme, a the' mere fact, 1... L
that he meant to bring the speech
speech of Sir Fletcher Norton, whiEh was also inseetire:Alludetho'undel the cote.idefetion of the House, an-
on the Journals. Indeed, the speech of Mr. Sleek , afcmialsiitired by any expression of censure whatever.
Lenthal, in the course of the Long Parliamint, eig,- Still those who made the complaint would press the
verted to a variety of topics. But it could not be in Noble Loid fora detail of his grounds and intentions,
furred, from the mere insertion of any of those speeches and if he complied with their demand, they would no
in the Journals, that they had of course the approba-- doubt immediately exclaim-ee, New you have sent'
tion of the House, for the contrary appeared. from the your complaints against the Speaker, do you mean to
discussion which took place upon Sir Fletcher Nor- go no farther, but leave the Right Hon. Gentleman
ton's speech after such insertion. Therefore the pro- subject to such imputations until atter the recess ?"
posed insertion of the speech then 'under considera- All this, and other reasons, would no doubt be urged
tion, could not be concluded to imp'', an approbation prematurely to get rid of the Nettle Lord's motion.
of its contents and character. Indeed, such cnsertion Such, he feared, was the end in view, amid therefore
was indispensible to a just consideration of the case, he was adverse to this minim, although he should
which consideration ought, in his opinion, to be en- readily vote for the production of the document al.
tered into as soon as possible, in order to ascertain luded to at a proper time before the Noble Lord's
whether there was ground for the insinuations which motion should be brought forward. Still he could
bad gone forth upon this' subject, and whether the not help repeating his wish and hope, that no attempt'
speech so much animadverted upon, really contained i would be made on the production of this document
any thing repugnant to the privileges of the House ? to interfere with the original notice. of the Noble
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that the course which Lord ; but that the whole matter would-lee lest to'
bad been taken by, the Hon. Member for Surrey on the discretion and candour of the Noble Lord—to'
this occasion was quite unprecedented. It was indeed, that discretion which could not be questioned, and
lee believed, the very first time that a notice of motion to that candour upon which the Right Hon. Gentle-
bad been interfered with in such a manner as the Ho-, mm in the Chair must be so ready to rely.—(Hear,
pourable mover had thought proper to adopt with re- Ilear, Near.)
sport to that of the Noble Lord, who might in fact Lord CASTLE RE AG H observed, that the House
have brought forward his motion without any notice and the Right Hon. Gentleman in the Chair were,
att all, or at least without any notice until very near upon this eccesion, , placed in a very
,painful predicaz
the period at which lie proposed to bring his motion meat, and highly reipectirig the character of the No.
before the Hwise. Upon what just ground then could ble Lord, he would appeal to his. candour whether it
the Noble Lotd be censured for the line he had taken ? was not due to the House and to justice to bring
But he confessed that he could not precisely under- forward, with all practicable expedition, a question
stand the grounds or the views cf the Hon. Mover, so materially affecting the character of the Chair ?
nor those of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had whether it would be reconcilable with common fair-
spoken last, although he had spoken so long. It stem- ness to allow a charge so derogatory to the Speaker.
'edto be the intention to prevent the extension of time as the transgression of his duty to remain suspended
proposed by the NobleLord'e notice, andby following over his head so, long as the Noble Lord had men-
up the present motion with something, to get rid car tioned ? If it were only the object of the Noble Lord
that in the contemplation of the Noble Lord. With to discuss the Speaker's performance of his dely,or
regard to the subject of this motion, he need not pro- attention to privilege, that was aquestion upon which
less that which he was known to feel, namely, the he. thought, with his Right Honourable Friend (Mr.
eighestrespect for thegeneralconductofthe.Right Hon. Bathurst), the House in the present stateot its ;men-
Gentleman in the discharge of the duties which ap- dance was fully competent to decide ; but if with that
pertained to the high office he occupied in the Chair it were, intended to connect another motion, which
.'f that House. From his observation indeed of that must require a larger attendance, particularly of Irish
conduct, he could not hesitate to bear his testimony. Members, he could not forbear from most earnestly de-
to the superiority of the Right Honourable Gentle, preceling the intention. Foy he should always tie averse
nian to any other Speaker whom he had ever seen.— to the discussion of that great..questicin collaterally.
But still he must persist in the expression which be Deeply as he felt. interested its its progress, and
l.ad used on a former occasion, namely, that the anxious as he was for its ultimate success, he must
Right Honourable Gentleman was not authorised'in ever protest* against any, nrticeeding calculated, to
whet he was reported to have said in anotjeer place, introduce its discussiotaby a side wind, to fritter dowel
1 id Also that from the expeeterice of the present See- its great importance, or to divide those who were

1.. rra2s►r

. ift ;le. ... - :eetl-cii" ..1.-j- .1 - - .
'therwise liiiposed to igfet tiptm its real Merit*. But
!aittatever Tight 'be the' Noble Lord's object,: Niue
-tetild consisteltlydisagroe wish a motion which ohiy
..
propOsed io put the House and the tonntri 'in- 00S.
session of a document upost which theiN4le Lord
4lpposed to found his motion, and which had been
the subject of so much snim idversion--,of artiMail-•
version, in his judgment, quite misapplied, because
resting Upon 'in erroneous interpretation of a,o ex,
presssion
sin the Speech alluded tO. Upon the real
i!firaqter 'of this expression lie did not at present
kroPose to dwell—brit he would appeal to the
. •
Fortsideration of the House, and the justice of the
p ic, whether, fairly viewing the sizilation of the
. . att, acting without instructions from the
tblab)
te,-in the discharge of a critical tt ust and a anon-
Ale duty, he should, where it is imp issiale to ascrib?
an improper mAtive, be Iteld,subject to, censitre far any
Mere iditecuracy of expression, or error of inference,
whether he should be solemnly condemned for incon-
clusive. reasoning—for an imperfect effort to anatomize
the motives of that House, or an incorrect description
Of those motive} ? So much .lael Lord Castlereagh)
',vas led to say 'in anticipation of the Nibble L -)rd's
Aaotion, which he trusted _would be brought forward
as soon as possible, in order to relieve the House
and the Chair from. the painful situation in which
they were. placed by a. notice which, implying
censure, certainly suggested the propriety of acceding
10 the.rpotion under'consideration.
_Mr. S.. WORTLEY, in a few words, observed,
thet. ilieNiible Lord( (Morpeth) had not explained whe-
, Ater the question ought to be Considered as one of
privilege, or one involving the,propriety of the senti-
ments expressed in the Speaker's speech ? . If the fur.
!per, the discussion did not require further delay ; if
'the latter, it became'necessary.
Mr. C. W. WYNNE thought that this was an im-
portant subject, on which the fullest information
should be procured. He differed in some degree from
the Hon. Seconder of the motion. Its chief object
should be, whether the speeds of the Speaker should
go forth to the public as conveying the sentiments of
the whole House? He agreed that the possession:of
the document itself was necessary, and wished that if
it should arise from future practice that the custom
of addressing the Throne should be allowed, the'
speech made by the Speaker on that occasion should
be entered on the Journals of the House of Commons,
in order to become a fair and open subject of discus-
sioo. He:would request the Honourable Mover to
add the words 0 for the use of the Members" to his
' Motion.
Mr. TIERNEY.—se I have heard much (said he)
ot.assertion3 that the notice of my Noble Friend's mo-
'ion has pot the Speaker in a painful situation, where-
, as; in point of fact, you, the Speaker, have put your-
self in that situation, by a speech which you thought
proper to make at -the close of the last Sessions of Par-
liament, which speech, in my opinion, and in that of
: many thinking men, deserves the serious attention and.
consideration of this House. for in that speech,you
uttered an assertion, bearing an interpretation calcu-
lated to excite pain, not only aniona those whe-aloied
for the Catholic Bill in the course of the last Sessions,
-bat among four. millions of your fellow-subjects, who
bating been placed in a state ()fp:Mitt:l delicacy ior
four months, during which there was no opportunity
to call upon you for any explanation, it cannot be too
lunch then for yotl to wait for two months, until the
Irisb Members, who are most interested in-the ques-
tion, are able to attend this House."—Adverting to
the conduct of Lord Morpeth, Mt. Tierney main.
II rained, that it was marked by peculiar delicacy and
'candour. The Noble Lord had not attempted to
' excite any prepossession or prejudice against the Right
Hon. Gentleman in the Chair, nor had he uttered
any thing that could be even construed into an accu-
sation, in the harsh sense of the word. Ail his Noble
.Friend alleged was, that the speech of the Right Hon.
Gentleman was such as deserve& the consideration—
as ought to be inquired into by that House. His
Noble Friend did not say or insinuate, nor should lie
(Mr. T.) say of any Gentleman, that he had uttered
that which was incapable of juotfetation. But to make
that justification satisfactory hiblic justice, and
•Creditable to the Right Hon.• ltlemrn himself, it
ought to take place in a full House.
Mr. RYDER complained, that when there had
been an opportunity, three months ago, of calling
;at, consideration whether the sentiments expressed
by the Speaker were of a questionable nature, the
charge had been so long suspended. He would ask,
whether that was consistent with that candour and
with justice, which be knew regulated the conduct of
the Noble Lord, he might say his Noble Friend, iu
private and public life? Such a mode he thought
entirely unprecedented. If the qnestion did not re-
late to the first' authority in th;t-House, would the
. Noble Lord, or any other, ccnsider it-consistent with.
justice and liberality to keep a charge so long suspen-
ded over any individual, without calling for an im-
mediate discussion ? He was confident that no im-
putation of undue motives could be cast on the.
' Speakser's conduct, and protested against the conduct
pursued, as totally unsupported by precedent.
' Mr. ABEReRONII3IE would riot have risen, had
it not been for one expression which he thought
'should not go uncontradicted. The Right Honour-
' able. Gentleman had stated that the motion on the
Speaker's speech ought to have been made at his re;
'turn from the House of Peers, and not kept sus.'
pended for month over his head. Was he igno-
! rant that this was an utter impossibility, as this
House no longer existed as the Commons House of
Parliament when the Speaker h.id just been attending
at the prorogation of Parliament ? It was impossible.
that it should have been bound by any notice his No-
ble Friend might have given, and such conduct WOl'ld
h:tve been quite unparliamentary. He thought the
charge of want of candour and justice brought against
his Noble Friend totally unfounded. The decision
to.which the House were -called was most important.
If it should be found that the Speaker had acted
consistently with precedent and principle, all of
course must approve his conduct. If lie was defi-
cient in precedent but right in principle, it would
become a consideration whether his act should be
sanctioned by the approbation of Parliament and in-
stituted as a precedent for future Sessions. But ii
neither supported by precedent, nor right in peinci-
ciple, a due expression of the disapprooation of the
House should be pronounced. It gas therefore
evident, that on a question of this importance, the
fullest attendance possible should be procured.—
This was scarcely w be expected before the Re-

.7-7‘. '

•

• .. . • .• • •
- therefore 1 -iiiidd hardl
ens, and iy he ftirly de,
bated until after that was over. The yarii!iy Lf
opinions would naturally be considi•rable. S' in::
Might think that the Speaker had no right to .IJ,irets
'the throne in the manner he diJ at we close a'f I :;,c
Session. rpthers might admit the riga/4 bet .oli c
ta the niter! of.lns speech, and of the send.Thrll. .:
01*nm-cf....Then to attempt to discuss the subject
.withrittidse:fullest attendance would be doing iopts-
iiceti the ifikaker and to the country. The great.
ohjset. ti the Speaker mast tee to have the goes:sort
Ar:ileti atter fall•and Jispassionate deliberations.—
Ile niirst.tirepeecate any anticipatory discussions, a•id
the Noble Lc.rd had adopted the only course which
promised eqaal justice to the Speaker and to the
plablic.---11r. VIDEit spike in explanation.
fire SPEAKER said, I la. pe I may. be allowed
-to at eke a abort obsery ition before I put the Qaesuon.
--(4c,f of A:ar, hew ).—I shall _fo.ble...._ll' a. iltlclllt
from Qfferiag any thing in j istitication or my c isidnet,
because the consideration ut that question is flat no"
'before you—but I am prepared to assure yo.s. that I i
feel the most confident persuasion of nentg able to
slay this House, that I have in i.ofrespesl a-ver
transgressed the duties of my office. ' -71.*
' The Motion was put and carried. A
... •
. .
MOTION OF THANKS TO THE MARQUIS
OF WELLING CON. ..
.
Lord CASTLEREAGH, in .risiug, in pnesistr,ce
of the notice which he had given on this subject,
e alluded to the happy time in which he h.d this
pleasant duty to perform, and said that he was sure
in calliag the attention of Houselo this cities ion,
he was persuaded that no doubt r wined in the muds
of any of them, that the Battle . 'ttoria, was that'
great crisis which decided the quesuOla of the military
possessioil of the Peninsula in favour of the Allies:—
Since this great event, he might congratulate Parlia-
ment on a series of successes on the part of the allied
armies, which had placed the war in a satiation not
less promising in comparison of its former statg than
that to which it had been elevated by theVictary of
Victoria. In the military annals of modern times
there never hos been a train of successes on the thea-
tre of seat. MOO glorious to the armies engaged—
more
.gratitykaig.to the nations of Europe, and more
promising of ultimate triumph tathe cause than the.
events which had firmed the great crisis of the war
in the Peninsula ; and he trusted that thevictory at •
Leipsic would be followed by events of as decisive
an influence on the war in that part of the Continent,
as those which had occurred sire the Bottle of Vit-
z .
,toria .had produced as the success of the cause of
Spain. • The details of these events, so deep'y graven
I on the minds of Englishmen,, would not On any
additional lustre by repetition ; but there was one
general feature in the present 'state of the war, . ,
which it was necessary to allude to as of the utmost
value;—the transactions since the Battle' of Vitto-
ria, prove,. mile than all the foiner operations
' of the war,. the perfection to which thq aative troops
of the Peninsula have attained—and as the only obi
ject of the British Nation, in interposing tele shield of
'its arms between the nations -of the Peninsula and
French aggression, 'was t i enable them to prat them- -
t selves in a state to fight their °tea agates, so it must
Ibe Most gratifying to us tolearn, that 'the great end
of our interposition has been answered, and that..the
troops of Portugal and .Spain-were in that high state -
ot -effectivene,s which justified the 'haste 'Regeat in
saying; in the Speech from thi Throne, that itittea.
diness and tow aiquerahle Spirit the three nations were •
equal. Not odly in battle had thii spirit been •diss
played, but in the most arduous duties of the Mili-
tary prifessi,n—in • the assault of fortresses, and
particularly that of St. Sebastian, thaw which 'there
was no parallel instance in the: annals of wear, which
WAS worthy .of more renown --(flear,•hissr, lsear.)-
Fur the arduous duties of storming that• place, the
I Portuguese troops were selected, and such was their
military- aedonr, that the' battalions who were not or-
tiered to undertake the duty, begged for a share of ' '
i the danger of the assault. It was a Portuguese bat-
'cation,. seconded by another body of their counter.
! men, winch crossed the river and effected the first
lodgment in the walls of the town.—(Near,hear.)--,
1 It was most gratifying to 'Great Britain, who had
I made such efforts in their cause, that the ita.aps
lof both the 'nations of the Peninsula, had ,rri.eLl to
this state of effective discipline. When the' eennchil
on a late occasion, crossed the river in trona of •
i their positionsi• *the Spanish troops wrier General
Freyre, as it.weres in single combat, drove theta' re- ". •
peatedly across theriver, and Lord Wellington :who
SAW and admired their bravery, would not Sutler thil
I rest of the army to take tr..m themaity part of. 'Weis
I glory. From this most desirable state of. things its
i in the event of a favourable' occasion, toe aitience
I of the Peninsular Nations might be left to their own •
I vigorous and disciplined troops, and we must feel
I that these na:ions who had contended with to-much
I ardour. for their liberty, were now from their m tr-
i tial spirit, capable of taking charge :if mill own
I counniesagainst any hos ile attacks. (1-har, hear.)
As to the attacks on St. Sebastian, (fir it was not
I one only in which the Portugutse and Spanish troops
I were emptiyed), it was ni t necessary to state, that
I the nature of the place was such, that it the first
did fail, the failure was attended' with no lass of
honour. Perhaps no siege was ever more arduous itt
any war; and the praise of the conquest was not
more due to the valour of the soldiers than to the •
skill of that gallant and illustrious. General (Sir 'l'.
Graham) who had now,returaed to his native land,
after :rasing planted the victorious standard of his
country on the French territory.-(Hear, hear.) That
General adopted, in the time of utmost need, an ex-
, petifent which had never before been ventured on,
and which was As well executed as conceiied, to which
the 'fall of the place was prtiicipaliy to be attributed. -
Neither was it necessary to carry the attention of the
House. to the ditiiculty of the operations by which the •
frontiers of Spain had been secured : perhaps, even in
the exteusive.experielice of Lord Wellington were
never were operations more arduous. From the ta.
: wee of the country the enemy were able to pour into
one vallerthe whole preisiire of their numerical supe-
riority, antknotwithstaatiing.the gallant resistance of
the poops
:opp'osed to them, were able to penetrate to
the neighbourhood of Pamplona.-Wfien the deaciericys _
Of the military communication between valley and
• valley .wassousideted, and the consequent dif.ficult es
which the• troops had to surmount,..the ma per is
which Lord Wellington combined 'his. forces, after a
sales of operations, which occupied no less than sit

Of seven days, and with* but a portion of. his army,
lint only repulsed all the attacks of one of the most
Able Generals of the enemy, Marshal Soult, (in a
aeries of combats. in which the bayonet, that wea.
port which it is the peculiar pride of the British, and
at present of the Spanish and Portuguese troops. to
use, was more frequently than in any former occasion •
resorted to), but drove him back with immense loss
into the territory of France, 'must be a matter of the
highest admiration, Since. this period, this great
Commander had driven the enemy from the posi.
tion which they had chosen, and had established
himself in a situation, where, with 'greater facility,
he might' undertake any operation which he might
think proper to resort to.. He (Lord Castlereagh).
bad •no doubt that the. House would agree with
laim on this as on a former occasion— ( Hear, hear),
...that Lord Wellington had manifested himself
the first Commander of the age--(Hear, hear, hear) ;
..-that the troops under -his command bad not
%hewn themselves inferior to their former conduct,
andthat our allies had acted as Great Britain would
always wish her allies to act, and Plot only had be
come rivals of our troops, bet had stood on that foot-
ing of perfect equality with them, which had been ex-
ultingly remarked in tie Speech from the Throne.
The expression of the feelings of the House op the
;subject, would. be the most gratifying to the nations
of the Peninsula, and the most animating to the fur-
ther exertions which were still' necessary to success.
He concluded by moving" the Thanks of the House to Field
Umbel the Marquis of Wellington, Knight of the Most Noble
Order of the Garter, for the consummate abWty and judgment
which he bad displayed la the operations of the war since the
battle of Vittoria, 4n consequence of which the ceemy bas been.
obliged to abandon Spain, and the Allied Army em besEt itstab.
Iffietion the (renders of Frame."
This motion was carried rm. coo., . ,
Lord CASII.ffiREAGH then moved " *Thesis .Of the
"House to Lieutenant-General Sir T. Graham, for • the persever-
ance and ability displayeil by 'hint in The capture of St. Sebastian,
and the Thanks Of *Arm to Sir Stapleton Cotton, Sir Row.
land Hill, Sir W. Beresford, the Earl of Dalhousie, Sir T. Picton,
Sir Lowry Cole, and-the other General Officers, for their valour
and ructions in the late opetations."—Both which motions were
agreed to Riff, fla•
HilLordship proposed motions of thanks to the.Pottuguese
and Spanish Officers, and to the Officers of the British Army.—
' 4nd motiopi of approbation and acknowledgment to the Non-
oommissioned Officers and Prtrates of the British, Spanish, and
Portuguese Armies. • All which motions were tuianiinously
agreed to.—AdjoUrned.

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

TUEsp"..itovEmimit 9, 1818.
LORD MAToit't Day.—illoiday at the Bank.

We have morbid •no tarts Papers more recent in
(late • than those -which we noticed yesterday ; but
there are letters in town from the French Capital,
dated an the 4th, which state, that preparations are
making at Frankfort, indicative of a -determination,
on the part*Of 'the French,' to make i stand against
-the Allies in that neighbourhood. The inhabitants
of Frankfort were quitting the town, from the terror
inspired by such a-state of affairs.
The French
gFtertnehundPiaesper4 forrs afford
aorderhvsidalensce
NEYth and CAF
.A
*reA
Sr. CYR, with Generals CAMPANSI BOPELDIEU, MAR•
PIAUDI and Feevitarr, bad arrived there on the :,)Sth
ult. The troops recalled from Westphalia and the fu-
gitives'from Saxony, are also collecting in the-same
place : of BONAPARTE, nothing is known subsequent
to his taking up his Ainarters at Erfurt.,
The Bavarian Army must be rapidly advancing in
the direction of the Thuringian mountains, through
which the routed French army must pass on its way
to the Rhine, for Wortaburg is declared in a:state of
- siege. This place it in the direct line of mare]; of the
Bavarian army. The proclamation in which this im-
portant fact is announced bears the signature of a
French General named Tonneau. This wretch was
recently the French Minister in America, and it is
but -the other day, that a virtuous and amiable wo.
saan, his wife, who followed him f;om France, was
by him left to perish in a workhouse of New-York.—
The 4merican Newspapers at the time were loud in
-their clamours against this execrable villain, and they
succeeded in banishing him :from America,
_greatly
to the chagrin of Mr. President MARMON, whose
congenial mind was, no doubt, mightily shocked at
the libels poured forth against his bosom friend.
—The same miscreant figured In the 'earlier period '1
of his military career in La Vendee. The fol.
sowing were the words of his Report to the French
Convention, when he had exterminated the Royalists:
0 We can assure you that the war exists no longer
.—the countries lately occupied by the Brigands pre-
sent but-a profound solitude : we go to a grtat dis-
tance without meeting a certage—we leave behind ub
only ashes and carcasse,."

We are te mote particular in dwelling on this
worthless man's achievements, because Ise has the
character of an expert negotiator, and we wish to
snake our Readers acquainted v. ith the kind of visi,
tors our Ministers must be compelled to receive, if
they listen to any offers of Peace from NAI•OLEON 130-
VAP4ItTE.

Vtviy.nson, NovEttlrrst B.—This being the Princess
iit:cobrA's birth-day, the morning was ushered in
with ringing of. bells and other demonstrations of
,icsy and rejoicings, Her l!turs-ry gives R. grand
:Binner at Progmore on the ocea:ion, to the Royal
Family and a select party. The QUEEN, Princesses
ruzatturn and MARY went to her MAJcsil's house
at -Frogrnore after breakfast, to inspect and give di-
..rectious, tesPecting the necessary preparations for the
!enurtainturot. The royal banquet is principally
,4nchr the superintendalceof the Princess Elazataurn.:
Toe Dutihfi4, of YORK and Dike of NeNT,llfe arrived
fo be pramit at die celebratiOn. The ?amen KEpENT
IS expected at FroOnore on the ixcasion,
• Pince Puzigcr, the,Qvggrig's yougigest brother is
stioiti`expectecl in this ;Qum,: , • _
, 5

• 4t16.