Star.
London, England, 1802-03-04 00:00:00

INDINNITY •ILL.

Mr. VANSITTART moved the fecond reading of
the Annual Qualification Indemnity Bill. He
Rated that the Bill now before the Houfe differed
from the former one, only with regard to two eir-
eumilances. After indemnifying perfons who bad
omitted to qualify themfelves for offices, there were
two claufes, one to indemnify perfons who bad
omitted to (tamp certain inilruments.within-a
li-
mired time; the principal objea to which this clank
applied was, to allow further time for Ramping.
Apprentices Indentures, upon payment of double
duty ; the other chide was to indemnify perfons
Who ailed as Solicitors and Proitors from the pe-
salty which attached upon their thing without
taking out a certificate. He underßood there were
many very refpeitable profeffional men who bad
fallen within the tcopc of this penalty, without the
leall intention of defrauding the Revenue. The
chafe indemnified them againft any further penal.
ties for aas done as Inch Solicitors or Proaors,
and upon which no actions had been brought.—
He trufted the Houfe would think they had already
fuffered fufficiently by the penalties they had in-
curred, and been profecuted for. The operation
of this chute was by allowing them further time.
The Bill was read a fecond time and committed.
Mr. AIMAIIDER brought up the Report of the
Committee for confidermg the Ail allowing the
duties on Cinnamon, Caffia Lignea. Raw Hides,
and Bo: Wood. The Repert was agreed to, and
Bills ordered upon the Refolutions.
ARMY ISTINATILL

The SACRITARY at WAR moved the Order of
the Day for the Houfe to refolve itfelt into a Com-
mittee of Supply, and that the Army Ellirnates
from the 25th of March to the 25th of May, be-
ing a perioci of sixty-one days, ibould be referred
to the faid Committee.

The SrIAIEIt left the Chair.
The &MILITARY at WAIL raid, that the Army
Ellimates now laid before the Committee, and on
which he fbould propofe certain Refolutions, were
calculated only for two months, and related to
fame of the molt important and preifing of the
Army Services. • They did not relate to all, but
only to Come; of the mon particular Cervices • and
among others, to Guards and Garrifons, VrooPs
abroad and in the Plantations, Fencibles in Great.
Britain and Ireland, Barracks and Foreign Corps:
they were calculated on the fame fcaie with thee
bean referred to the Committee of Supply, and
the only alteration arofe from the change.of place
of fome of the corps—fome of the regiments hav-
ing been transferred from one fervice to another.
The Right Hon. Secretary then proceeded to cilia-
:negate the number of men for each head of fer-
vice, obferving, that if any Member was defitous
'of propofing any quellion referring to either of
thofe fervices, he should be happy to communicate
all the information in his power. He concluded
by moving his fiat refolution.
Mr. ELLIOTT rote to oppofe the motion, on the
around that the vote of the Committee, in the
relent fitnation of the country, ought to be to a
much larger extent. He maintained that the
country bad been in an. *anal Rate of war ever
finceie conclufion of the Preliminaries of Peace.
He was one who did not think himfelf "unified
in giving a qualified anent to the continuance
of the Military and Naval Eltablithments of the
country upon the fame kale of.
.magnitude as
prior to the figning of the Prchnunarr7Tvreaty.
It had been the invariable. and wife po • of the
Width Government, in the regulation o its Mi-
litary and Maritime Eflablithments, to adapt them
to the fituation of affairs upon the Continent ;
to extend or to limit them according to the de-
gree of danger with which our own W
country, or its
poiteffimut were *PLOby &OOP

..

views of other Powers of Europe. in she eon&
of the difcuffion upon the Preliminaries of Peace,
he bad exprefed his difapprobation of the terms
of them—fince that difcuffion nothing had
petted to induce him to alter his opinion. 11
al;
Rill confidered that Treaty no lib alarming to
the interells .of Great Britain than to the rights
and liberties of every independent State in Eu-
rope. Before he proceeded further it was necef-
fary to anticipate Come of the arguments that
might be urged againft him. As he had had
the misfortune to differ upon the former occa-
fion from the majority of the Houfe, he felt it
his duty now to exprefs' his feelings upon this
point. That he had had the misfortune of differing
from the majority of the Houfe, in refped of the
Preliminaries of Peace, he had no relulance what-
ever in admitting ; but be was not fo loft to a fenfe
of his duty as a Member of Parliament, not to
know that he ought to bow to what was after-
tabled to be the opinion of the Houle : fubmitting
to its decifion, he cruted, however, he might Rate
what was the convidien of his mind. He begged
it td be diftindly underftood, that his opinion of
the impolicy of the treaty of peace with the French
Republic, not only remained unaltered, but that the
reafons upon which that opinion had been founded,
every day's experience had firengthened and con-
firmed. He ain thought,that when the noble Lord
put his fignatnre to the Preliminary Treaty, he
affixed it to an inftrument of great national ca/a-
mity ; to a document which would go down to
1 pofterity as the commencement of the decline of
the fortunes, power, and independence of the
kingdom. He was ready, notwithftanding what
be thought of it, to bow to its terms. Parliament
bad deemed it right, and he thould therefore think
the faith of the country violated if it was not, as
far as refpeded this country, carried into excels.
tion. But he hoped he might be permitted to
obferve, that the Houfe had, by giving its fandion
to the Preliminary Treaty,, not bound itfelf to ac-
cede to it, if the circumftances under which it had
given its approbation were altered. He mull
lu:the Houfe againft the dangerous doarine,
treaying agreed to the Preliminary Articles, it
was precluded the right of animadverting upon
them. He knew that many Gentlemen who bad
given their approbation to the 'fignature of the
Treaty, had been aluated by a hope that the Go-
vernment of France would have continued that
fyftem of moderation which it profelfed to have
adopted. Had the event juftified that hope, there
might have been Tome leafon why the Minifter
who had feed the Treaty thotdd (till demand the
fupport of-the Houfe. He believed that many
Gentlemen who had acquiefced in the Treaty had
approved of it in confequenee of their fuppofing
the Cifalpine Republic would have remained a fe-
parate and independent State. Had the French
Government refrained from ambitioutly and un-
juftly violating the independence of the Cifalpine
Republic, that country, from its pofition, would
have formed a fecure barrier between France and
Autlria, and the States of the Empesor of Ger-
many on the one hand, and France and the Sore-
reign Powers of Italy on the other. But we had
had the mortification of experiencing, during the
pendency of the negotiation, a fort of contume-
lious neglect and difregard on the part of the
Government of France as to the interells of other
Powers, which England had never, till now, been
in the habit of fubmitting to. We had Peen the
Firft Conful of France, during the' interval of a
Preliminary and Definitive Treaty, proceed-
ing to Lyons, and after palling a few days in
exhibiting a fcene of farcical pageantry, in
conjundion with the Conftituted Authorities af-
(alibied to meet him, at length concluding his
pompous mockery of the rights of nations, by i
difcovering that there was no perfon throughout
the whole habitation of the globe who was capable
of managing the affairs of the Cifalpine Republic,
and that-he was therefore induced to take upon'
himfelf the important truft. He confeffed he was I
not a little alarmed at the mode of reafoning I
adopted by the Firft Conful ,• he feared if we per.
fevered in our fubmiffion to fuch encroachments, it
might occur to the Firft Conful that the fame
mode of argument would apply to this country,
and he might endeavour to place Great Britain
under his protedion. He had returned to Paris,
leaving io the Cifalpine Republic the name of an
independent (late, but he had as completely annex-
ed it to France as it was poffible—he had madeita
cantonment for French Colliers, sind thus extended
the frontiers of France along the greater part 41
Germany. He had alto, by a moil dextrous di- 1
piomatic manoeuvre, poffeffed himfelf of the Itle 1
of Elba, which had been exprefsly guaranteed to
the Grand Duke of Tufcany. The Hon. Member
Paid, he mull now call the attention of the Conl•
mince to .a Treaty, concluded in a tone and ftyle
to which independent Powers were ftrangers—be
alluded to the Treaty with Portugal, by which-
France had acquired interefts hoftife to this coun-
try. She had, by the acquifition of a large line
of territory on the fouthern coati of America,
obtained the means of fupplying their Well India
Minds, and of endangering the fafety of our,
own. He did with to a& the Noble Lord
what was the aaual fituation of this country ?
Whether we were negotiating a Peace ? Whether
we were at war, or whether reprefentations had
been made by Government aganift the ads of
fraud and ambition committed by France ? Al-
though he would not appeal to the Noble Lord to
anfwer him, it was his duty to call upon him to
anfwer to the Committee, and to the Public, how
it happened that, when we thought we were con.
trading to give Porto Ferrajo to Tufcany, we
were only • g it in the hands of the Grand
placing
Duke that he might transfer it to France ? Wow,
when we were giving up the Weft India 'fiends,
the was in poireilion of fuch a part of the Conti-
nent of America ugave her a prepaiderancy of
I power in the Welt ndies- He was ilf opinion if
Government bad treated with the Allies of France
feparately, better terms might_ havelailen obtained.
K. next referred to the-very large pottiest (Ohs
French .navy which bid- ales, to the Well Indies,
accompanied bylriiih and Duick fquadron.
g He was aware it ' be neeefarl to [O4 a rot
P 047: raffc . to • Wfli Weal blit in fir*

doubts
.as to the policy of the ineaferet, at leak
he thought it right France should be called upon
to explain the object of the deftination of Inch a
'fleet. She had an undoubted right to dieribute
her forces as the thought proper ; but England',
alto had a right to remonftrate againft, and refill
any expedition the might undertake. He recol.
leaed, in the year 1774, during the war between
the Turks and the Ruffians, when the latter ob-'
mined Come advantages in the Mediterranean,
France imnsediately fent a fquadron of obferva-
tion. England upon that occafion (aid, if France
perfifted in fending fuch a fleet, the mutt fend an-
other to watch its motions, and would bend GA
for fail with them. If his Majelly's Minifters
thought a large force was neceffary in the Weft
Indies, they thould have made a fimilar reprefen-
tation, and fent out a fleet of okifervation. It might
be raid the French had no tranfports, and there-
fore were obliged to fend troops out in 'hips of the
line. She might have procured them from Spain
or Holland, or if not, it would have been better
policy in this Government to have provided velrels
for them, rather than have Coffered fuch a fleet to
have gone to the Weft Indies. By fo doing, in-
dependent of other advantages, we thould have
Paved the lives and conftituttons of our feameo
from being expofed to the ravages of that cli-
mate. The& were the reafons which induced him
to vote for a larger eßabliftunent than the one
propofed. He trulled that Government would
as with vigour, and that the country would thew
the fame generous fpirit by which it had ever
been diftinguithed.
Lord Hawassavav raid, however proper it
might be on fome future occafion to reply to the
obfervations of the Hon. Gentleman, he certainly
thould abitain, at the prefent moment, from com-
menting upon it ; and the more efpecially as the
only objection to the motion of his Hon. Friend
was that of its being too limited. He was ready
to agree, that for all the meafures of Government,
fince the period of the conclufion of the negocia-
tion for the Preliminaries of Peace, they are re-
fponfible to the Houfe and to the country. When
the proper period arrived, his Majelly's Minifters
would not withhold• any information which would
enable the Houfe and the public to form a judg-
ment on every part of the tranfaaions relative to
peace with the French Republic, or refufe to give
every explanation as to every part of their condul,-
from the commencement of the negociation to the
prefent hour. The Houfe mull perceive, that at
the prefent moment it would not be proper for
him to enter into any difcuflon as to the points
brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman, how..
ter important they might appear, or whatever
effect they might have on the minds of thofe who
conducted the negociation. The only ground of
any juftifiable interference, in the prefent cafe,
would be the certain knowledge that the negocia-
tion had been protraeted to an unufual length of
time, and that the confequences were fuch that
Parliament had a right to call on Government for
an explanation. He was ready to Admit that fe-
rious inconvenience did arife from a negotiation
being protraited to the period this had been car-
ried ; but if Gentlemen would confider the im-
portant interefts, and the variety of points to be
difeuffed, and likewife refer to, what was the bell
criterion, the time which the negociation of former
treaties bad occupied, they imuld not feel them-
(elves '
unified in laying this had been protraaed
to fuch an unufual extent as to warrant parlia-
mentary explanation. At the peace in 1783, whet}
there were as few points as potllble to difcufs. the
preliminary treaty was finned on the aoth of Ja.
unary, and the definitive treaty on the 3d of Da
cember. He did not fay this either to diminith or
ittcreafe any fentiment of anxiety Gentlemen might
feel, but only to thew that a period bad not elapfed
of fuck unufual duration as to require the interfe-
rence of Parliament. Having Rated this, he would
add, that his Idajefty's Government might well be
fuppofed to be as anxious to bring this negociation
to an iliac as every fubjea in the kingdom. No
means had or would be omitted by his Majelly's
Minifters that were calculated to bring it to a Inc.
ce(sful termination as fpeedily as poffible : but the
Houfe would not expert them at the prefent mo.
meet to enter into the points of the Hon.-Gentle-
man's fpeech, particularly when they profeffed
their perfect readinefs at a proper feafon to enter
into the dikuffion of all the points conneaed with
the fubjea. The Hon. Gentleman had made a
perfonal allufion with refpea to his having been
the inftrument of figning the treaty. He should'
only ftate,that whatever might be the event of the
negociation for peace, he thould never regret any
thing he had done to promote it. He would Rate
to the Hon. Gentleman, to the Houfe, and to the
public, that whatever might be the operation of the
preliminary treaty, he mould ever be proud at
having been party to a tranfaaion which he thought
upon the whole creditable to the country—which
afforded a chance to Great Britain and Europe ot
the continuance of. peace. When Gentlemen
talked of the confequences of peace, they would
do well to confider likewife the confequences of
war. It was fit to balance nicely between the con-
venieacies and inconveniencies of both, and furely
the experiment of peace, if it was only an expe-
riment, was as wife as the continuance of war.—
The points brought forward by the Hon. Gentle-
man, he was defirous thould be fairly before•the
Public; and when the time arrived that they could
with propriety be dircuifed, neither himfel . nor his
colleagues would 'brink from the dircurion.
Mr. Coaewm.sis obferved, that it was moll pro-
bable the French Expedition to the Weft Indies
might have in contemplation a fair and legitimate
objea ; but fuppofing the intentions of the French
Government thould be holtile, and the negotiations
terminated unfavourably, this country bad nothing
to apprehend. We had a force in the Weft Indies
more that' fufficient for the protedion of our
Iflands. We thould have the opportunity of fight-
ing and taking the French flips at Pea, intlea of
counting them in their harbours, His Majefty's
Madams, therefore, merited applaufe for having
fn red them to fail. He few no ground of alarm,
There was no reafon to queftion either the vigilance
of opr Gevermnent, or the pacific difpofition of
cltfPS Cupful, did not evert dedir4*

ton. on the part of France anticipate the blefrings
,of Peace ? What then was our duty ? Not to en-
tourage fufpicion, proclaim jealoufies, and found
alarm throughout the country. There could not
be the fmalleft doubt, that whatever might be the
wink of the negotiations Great Britain would be
prepared to meet the French at lea in any quarter
of the world. He concluded by referring to former
Negotiations, and (hewed from their duration that
the public had no caufe for anxiety in confequence
of the delay in the prefent.
' Mr.WlNDHAlli,after a few intmiluitory remarks,
addrefred the Committee to the following effeit:—
" Sir, I am as well convinced as the Noble Lord, or
his Colleagues can be, of the refprinftbility by which
they are bound to the Houk, and to the Country.
Of the force and operation of that refponfibillty,
there does not exit the flighteft doubt between us.
and in the prefent crifis they aft more peculiarly
under is than at any other time. But when my
Hon. Friend comes forward and afks for that ini•
formation which he conceives neceffiary to fatisifr
' the Public mind, and to remove thole doubts and
apprehenfions for which he feels grounds, in ntir
opinion, unfortunately too hong, I do not think
I am going too far ia failing, that the promifed
explanation of the Noble Lord will conic rather
too late. It will, I fear, prove little confolation
for the Country to learn the motives by which his
Itfajeßy'i Minißers may have been aftuated, when
it Sall at the fame time have felt the dangerous
Jets refulting from there motives. My Hon.
r Friend, in his queftions. does not exceed thole:
conftitutional bounds to which he is allowed to
extend his enquiries • and if the. Noble Lord con-
' fiders my Hon. Friend's propofitions as calculated
to interfere with the Negotiations now carrying
• on, I mull fay that be takes into his confideration
that which is not aridly the cafe. In admieting
the refponfibility of his Maiefty% Minißers, I alto
• feel that a great refponfibility is weighing on my'
Own mind, from the filence whiCh I have hel4
fo long, and I find much difficulty in et.clifing
and vindicating myfelf in my own opinion, for
having fo long remained neutral on a queflion in
which the deareß interells of the Country are in.
volved. In this conduit I have been influenced
by two confiderations, and a great email has
arifen in my mind, between the propriety of
calling the attention of the Houle to the preheat
(late of affairs, and the danger of perplexing Go.
vernment, or embaraffing the Negotiations bit
fuel: a meafure. Undecided between thefe two
cables, I therefore acquielced in film:, and de-
termined to wait for the concurrence of two ma.
terial objeas, that of knowing the flotation of
the Country, and of not pledging Milliners to
any line of conduit, by which their views might
be fruflrated, and their plans rendered vain.—
No man, Sir, I confidently fay, can look at the
prefent Rate of the country, without teeing, altrwft
at a Jingle glance, that it is an objet ofthe greateft
care and attention to every one whofepulalic duties
call for his exertions, and to all whole feelings are;
interefted in its welfare. I indulged myfelf in the
hope that his Majelty's Miniflers would have been
the firft to have brought forward the topics on
which my Hon. Friend has lunched ; and their
not doing it. I mutt obferve, tends to confirm any
diftruft which I may have entertained. If I take
the language held out in the Debates which took
place on the figning of the Preliminaries of Peace,
and compare it with what has been fince efreiteill
I (ball find no fatisfaaory grounds for me to bandit
my apprehenfions. It would indeed appear that
little has been done fince that period. I feel in
common with others, the great evils refulting from
fufpenfe. The nation feels them but two ftrongly.
Yet even thefe evils, great as they are, and this
Rate of fufpenfe, big as it is with anxiety and
dread, are not flifficient to jullify Gentlemen in
calling for explanations from his Majelly's Mini-
Rees. Reafons of a more powerful aature are not,
however, wanting. Has notl.ing happened 'lnca
the figning of the Preliminaries to fanition inqui-
ry? Every thing has happened which mull be at.
counted fufficient to let afide the force and opera.
don of the engagement entered into, and to inva•
lidate the Preliminaries. Every thing has bap,
pened which politically and truly fpeaking fhould
deftroy the contrail. Every thing has fo happened,
that none who voted for the Preliminaries in this
Houfe, are bound to foipport them. The founda,
tion on which ttey then gave their fuffrages is
a/Runny deitroyed; and the credit which they
gave to the enemy for good faith and fincerity, is
no longer to be found. There are, Sir, three de-
feriptions of events which mutt be ferioufly con&
dered, in order to feel the force a this. ohferva.
don. Firit, events that have totally changed the
bafis and nature of the Preliminaries: fecondiy,
events that have changed the refpeitive condition
and Rate of the two countries: and thirdly, thofe
which in fait belong to both, and which flew the
nature of the difpolition and temper of the oppo-
fite party. The Noble Lord, it will no doubt be
reconciled by every one who hears me, dittintly
Rated three confiderations in which the Prelimina-
ries might be taken. He Rated the time, the
terms, and the tone or the temper in which they
were concluded. As to the time and the terms,they
are gone by; and as to the tone allow me to fay a few
words---lagree that it is a matter of the higheit mo-
ntentifor as the fpirit at all times is better than the
letter, particularly in political tranfaftions, the tem-
per of the enemy becomes a queftion of the greaten
importance. But if he unexpetedly aflumes
new power, and acquires new dominion beyond
an,reafon and probability, it mull be evident that
no confidence can be placed in his profeffions. But
we are told, the more reliance we have upon his
tone the fafer and the more fecure we Chan be ;
and taking this as a rule of argument, we may go
on to witnefs the aggrandizement and confoli-
dation of his Empire completely undifturbed, be-
caufe thefe are no proofs of the want of fincerity.
When we fee innances every day of his redoubled
vigour, of his over-itraining and unfitted ambi-
tion, (hail we be content with fubfcribing to this
doarine, and giving our affeut to his moderation
of temper ? lfhis-Mateny's Milliners will raife their
beads from their.difpntches, and read the great
Idifpatch of the enemy, plain and legible as it is in
Inver/ part of (fie globe, they will ice undoubte4

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proofs of his rooted determination to turn all eveaj
to his advantage againft the interefis of this ioun-
try.—lf any thing like a cone& idea of a Prelim''
niry Treaty can be formed, 1 fhould fay that it is
fiat Rate in which both panics Mould have Roam;
Oa It prefents to the mind the fituation of a
town befieg, ed, when the mere ceffation of WI&
ties takes place. No moleflation is offered to Mote
within, but no notes or provifions are allowed to
enter from without. The lief-moors carry on no
new works ; nor do the befieged repair their'forti-
fications. In afcertaicing the tone or temper of the
oppofite party two things arc to be confidered;
events that have fubfequently happened, and events
that have fubfequently become known. The dif-
tinition is clear, and with thofe of the latter de-
fcriptionMinilters Mould have been made acquaint.
ed. If intended by the enemy to be actually car-
ried into erred, and that they were not communi-
cated to his Majelly's Minilters, the party who con.
cealca them was guilty of fraud. Some of there
events are fo plain that it is impollible to miltake
then.—They may be found in an ifland, in a fum
of money, in a diftrift. Such was the violation of
the integrity of Portugal, fecured as it appeared
to be by the Preliminane.; hut the Treaty which
deflroyed that integrity was kept ferret, and thus
conftituted that fraud of which I complain. I, it
not then right in my Hon. Friend to call the atten-
tion of the Houle to the Rate of the country, or
rather is it not the crying duty ()revery man, who
confiders the fituation in which we arc placed ?
Although we are at prelim confide) ing v-:lat may
be called a fmall point in the general (late of affairs,
we are Dill juffified in having the whole Intuition
of the country before us. What appears to me
above all other things the molt dreadful confidera-
tion, is the unaccountable apathy of the moment.
I know not exam ly by what name to call it ; but I
Mould be inclined to call it in the language of
Divines—a blindnefs, a judicial blindnefs. To
trace it to its caufe, would be a talk, I fear, too
difficult for any man.. What is the prefent Rate of
Europe ? What are the Powers (till left which are
exempt from fervitude or dependence? Take them
all after ourfelves, and we (hall find Aultria and
Ruffia only which can be Cad to exift. But when
we fee the encreafing power, the fellacknowledged
ambition, and the conflantly encreafing aggran-
dizement of France, what fecurity have we for
our own power, our own independence? The head
of the government of France plainly tells us that
he has got augmented influence, augmented ter-
ritory, augmented dominion, and that he means
toemploy them to the deltruetion of our commerce,
and our naval pre-eminence. The fubjed, Sir, is
fo dreadful, the prolpett is fo dreary, that it appals
me with its magnitude. It is fo pregnant in appre-
henfion and terror, that I !hall not, from the inci-
dental remarks which have fallen to-day from my
Hon. Friend and the Noble Lord, enter now at
large into it. My Hon. Friend has ailed with pe-
culiar propriety ; his obfervations are completely
juftified by the crifis to which the country is re-
duced, and his Majefly's Minilters may treat them
as they pleafe : but I fear every new otcafion will
furnilli new topics for timilar obfervations. I beg
pardon of the Houle for having troubled them fo
long ; but I thought it my duty to Rate my fend-
memos upon a lubjed of fuch importance to the
Country."
Mr. Basso faid, that fine the condemn of the
Preliminary Treaty, events had taken place, which
if they bad occurred during a period of profound
tranquillity, would have turnilhed a jug ground
for the commencement of hollilities. He could
confider them in no other light than as ads of open
hoflility. It remained however with his Majefty's
Minifters to account for what had taken place fince
the figning of the Preliminaries.
Lord CAS T LE it BAG H deprecated the idea of Gen-
Vemen being too fanguine as to the iffue of die pre-
terit negotiations fur the definitive treaty; and 'till
more was the conduit of thofe defcrving of cenfure
who condemned the preliminary treaty alt. gaiter.
The one was calculated to place us in a Rate of
too great feeurity, and the other to fill the public
mind with defpondency ; either of which might be
produffive of the mot mifehievous confequences.
No unmanly fentiment of fear or difappnmtment
Mould be Coffered to exift in time country, in cafe the
negotiation fhould not terminate happily. He
profeffed himfelf wholly unacquainted with the
lentiments of his Maje y's Govcrnment,and, there-
fore, when he (poke of the negotiations at Amiens,
he fpoke without any knowledge whatever of their
probable termination, but lie had every reafon to
hope they would be fuccefsful. The whole tenor
of the arguments on that night were of fuch a na-
ture as tended to throw a defpondency over the
public mind. He law no alarm that could exift
for the fafety of our Weft India poffeffions from
the failing of the French armament; on the con-
trary, the polTeffions of Franc; were in a very
alarming and critical &nation ; fhe would now
find it a very difficult talk to reduce her colonies
to obedience; it was neceffary for her to retort
the authority of the Whites, which was now in the
hands of the Blacks, who, in St. Domingo, formed
a great majority of the inhabitants; and even if
Touffaintlhoulil fnbmit to the power of France,
it would Rill be found extremely difficult to eta-
blifh fuch a government as would keep the Blacks
in fubjeftion. If we looked to Guadeloupe or St.
Domingo, and confidered the formidable infnr-
reftions which diftraded thofe iflands, and the
power affurned by the majority of the Black inha-
bit.ints, it was evident that the expeditions which
Lmiled from France to thefe places, were not of a
magnitude beyond the obvious neceffity of the cafe.
The whole of the force they fent thither would
not be more than fufficient to, reduce and keep in
tubjeltion the revolted colonies. As to the wad)
tion, whether this expedition Mould have been
Coffered to fail or not ? it might appeal that NE-
Lifters had acted wifely in not interfering at all
m the bufinefs. If the peace Mould be defini-
tively fettled to-morrow, France mull employ a
great'force in the Well.-Indies, Gigot Britain would
of courfe be obliged to keep up a eorrefponding
km there, and dins be obliged to delay the time
of retrenching her war eflabfilliment ; and at the
fame time we could not call upon Prance to- re-
duce her force, without endanger:mg the tranquil-
_

lity then exiting; but now while the Negociations
were going forward, we could call on France to
diminith the force now employed there before the
Treaty was brought to a conclufion. It was there-
fore more confiftent with the fecurity of Great-
Britain that this force, which was indifpenfibly ne-
ceffary for France in the Weft-Indies, should have
failed before, than after the figning of the Defini-
tive Treaty, becaufe in the latter cafe a war ex.
pence might ultimately be impofed on the country.
How far his Majefty's Minifters had on this fubjee
exercifed a found difcretion, mutt remain undeci-
ded until either the Definitive Treaty was conclu-
ded, or the War recommenced. At all events we
were not juftified in entertainingany alarm refped-
ing the armament in queftion, unlefs we knew that
it was intended to ae againft us. The queftion
concerning the delay of :he Definitive Treaty could
not be properly entered into at this time • and it
was very juftly hated by a Noble Lord, that' there
was no ground of jealoufy from the delay that
had taken place, which was not greater than
what had formerly intervened between the fign-
ing of Preliminary and Definitive Treaties.—
The ceflion of Guiana was a fubjed which ought
not to be difcuffed at this time. He was de-
cidedly againft the queftion brought forward that
night being difculTed in this premature and partial
manner. It was alto neceffary to avoid there -dig'
cuflions, on account of the language which Gen-
tlemen thought proper to make Life of. It was not
for Memb:rs of that Houfe to cenfure any of chore
trent:o'oas which lately took place with regard to
the affairs of Come of the Governments of Europe,
becaufe what was faid there might not coincide
with the views the powers alluded to fhould en-
tertain concerning the Rate of their own affairs ;
they mutt be more interefted in what regarded
them than perfons in this country, and therefore-
Gentlemen fhonld, at the prefent moment, be very
cautious as to the languae they ufed when (peak-
ing of the changes that lately took place in thofe
Governments ; and it was equally neceffary not to
hold out expeaations too fanguine with refpeet to
the Treaty, left they enervate and unman the peo-
ple, by throwing them off their guard. It would
be better to hold out fuch language as if it was
thought that the Treaty would not fuccefsful ;
and if the confequences thould be unfavourabl:,
we fhould then meet them with firmncfs and energy.
We ought to remain in fuch a Rate of mind as not
to repofe any unwire confidence in Miniflen, but as
if Minifters had left the country erpofed to dan-
ger, which it could eafily extricate itfelf from.—
Such a conduct, in thort, ought at this moment to
be obferved by Great Britain, that, if unfortunately
the Definitive Treaty fhould not be concluded, and
war fhonld be the confequenee, Europe, and the
whole world, might know that this country was
not anfwcrable for it.

Dr. LAWRINCI could not help obferving that
the Gentlemen who attempted to anfwer kis Right
Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham) had wholly milm-
derfiood the main drift of his arguments. Thofe
arguments did not go (as they were reprefented)
to cnminate Dffinifters, but rather to raife a fpirit
in the country equal to the dangers and difficulties
to which it was again likely to be carried. Neither
could he help obferving, that the Eftimates of the
army had before been voted for a period at which
Minifters expetted that the Definitive Treaty might
arrive, and now again they were propofed for an-
other fhort period, in a fimilar expeftation that this
their much -wiffied-for event might take place before
its expiration. Thus, it might be feared that, in
order to accomplifh the work of Peace, the Pra
I ed period of two months would be further employ-
ed by them in entreaty, in fubmiffion, in impor-
tuning and profiration.
Lotd HAWRISBUILY here rote, and called the
Learned Gentleman to order. The languaguleld
by the Learned Gentleman, he contended- to be
extremely improper and dangerous under the pre-
!lilt palate of aff.tirs. He by no means pretended
to limit the Learned Gentleman's Parliamentary li-
berty to deliver his opinions ; but to ufe fuch words
as entreaty, ilibmiffion, degradation, &c. without
adducing a fhadow of argument to prove that there
really exiled any thing of that nature, appeared
to him, and mull appear to the Committee, to be a
language from which no pollible good could wife,
and which might be attended withmuch mifchicf.
Dr. Lawaescs contended, that he imputed no
Each condua to Minitters, but merely was going
to argue, that taking the climates for fo fhort a
period was likely to give that interpretation to
their condua. For his part, he rather rejoiced
in than regretted the delay that retarded the con
elution of the Definitive Treaty ; it might afford
time to (hew that all was not to be abandoned and
furrendr.red ; it might give room to hope that
better fecnnty might be obtained, or a clearer tel
of the fincerity of France. The tituation of the
country at the conclufion of the laft war was com-
pared with its fitnation at the prefent moment, but
they were effentially different. In all former trea-
ties there were certain limitations and modifica-
tions drawn from preceding treaties, which formed
a balls for the negociation. The late negociation
relied on no fuel' bafis—it did net revive any
'former treaties; it did not thus fecure the free
navigation of the Miffiffippi, or guarantee any be-
nefit from the treaty with America. Thefe points,
he hoped, would be attended to during the delay,
and in that hope he trolled the country would look
at the delay with patience. It was this vigilance
and fpirit which his Right Hon. Friend endea-
voured to excite in the country : they by no mons
bad for the objea of their ol.fervatians to crimi-
nate Minifien. But the Noble Lord who (poke
laft (Lord Caftlereagh) teemed anxious to deal in
political optintifia. He. endeavoured to derive
confolation from every allied of things. That Noble
Lord feels the neeeffity which France is under of
fending out a great military force to die Weft In-
dies. -Without it the negroes could not be kept in
fobjettion but whether that force is to att with
fainters and generofity, or with duplicity and in-
the Noble Lord does ant fo anxioufly exa-
'Ate. He Cams to forget that the country by
which it is employed, is the rival of this in every
objea of parfuit ; and will not this fpirit of
rivalry influence the aft to which flub mans
may be elated t • The Learned Gentleman next

proceeded to (hew nnw futile were the gtonnds of
fuch confolation, and how incontinent it was for
Tome Gentlemen to employ them. Thole who
boated of our blocking up the enemy's chips in all
their ports, now exprefs no diffatisfaaion at their
having got out: Thofe who loudly approved of
refufing- permiffion to the French Government,
when they folicited an armed truce, to fend out a
fmall armament to the Well Indies, are now nearly
as eager to fupport the propriety of letting a large
armament proceed for the fame profeffeti objea—
the reducing the Colonies to order and fubjeaion.
The Learned Gentleman next alluded to the ceffion
of Louilianz, which he could not but regard as a
fraudulent tranfaaion, and as iutmduzing a fraud
into the Preliminaries. He mull alfo afk, in what
light was the Italian Republic to be viewed by this
country? Was that country included in the Preli-
minaries, or are we now at peace or war with it ?
The man who ruled over France, now alto guided
the delinies of the new Republic, which by taking
the name of the harm intlead of the Wallas: Re-'
public, betrayed the extent of its ambitious views. ,
According to a proclamation of the Vice Prefident, '
it fhould now be the pride of its inhabitants to rival
the glory of their anceftors, and, like them, no
doubt, to extend their dominion. Thofe were
points which the delay in the negotiation might
afford time to examine and afcertam. We had a ,
coloffal power now to contend with, that placed
one foot on the mouth of the river of the Ama-
zons,and the other on the mouth otthe Miffiffippi.
What might not fuch a gigantic grafp of ambition
aim at ? Indeed the country now flood in a crilis '
fuch as it never before experienced ; and to extri-
cate it from fo perilous a fituation required the ex-
ertion of fuper-human wifdom, of fuper-human
abilities, of piper-human energies of all kinds.—
For his part, he wilted the nation might be armed
for either event, Peace or War; and for that pur-
pole he thought the climates fhould be voted for
a longer period; it would at leaf give Minifters
tome kind of weight in the eyes of thofe with
whom they were now negotiating.
The Arroan if-Gsmintat.began by reprobating
the infinuation thrown out by the Learned Gentle.
man ( Dr. Lawrence), that Miuifters would employ
the two months to come in importunity,fubmiffion,
and degradation ; but he was called to order by
Dr. Lorraine', who contended, that after he
had given an explanation of his words to the Com.
mittee, it was unfair again to put a wrong con-
ftruftion upon them.
The Arroansr-Geo 'am. was ready to allow
that the Learned Gentleman had a right to put what
conftruaion he pleafed upon his own words; but be
alto had a right to take them in that meaning in
which the teitimony of his own organs conveyed
them to him ; that for his own part he mutt rejea
all participation in the praife which the Learned
Gentleman, who jull fat down, wiflied to bellow
upon Minittersforhaving delayed the negotiations.
, The manner in which the prefent debate was con-
dated led to no ufefnl conclufion ; nor anfwered
any good Parliamentary purpofe. If Minifters had
abufed the power versed in them with regard to the,
treaty of peace, it would be the moft manly pro.
ceedingforthofe Gentlemen who thoughtfo to move
an Addrefs to his Majefty, to recal his negotiator
at Amiens; and nottoventilatetheairinthat Houle
in declamationagainft the peace itfelf. He deprecat-
ed this habit of indifcriminate cenfurt and expeao-
ration without coming to any manly and ufeful
conch:fion : particularly fo when the moft delicate
of all rubjeas was under confideration ; and when
the deareft interefts of the country were likely to
be endangered by this kind of evening's
gencies. It was neceffary at one time to block
up the fleets of France in her ports, in order to
prevent them from vomiting their troops into
a diforganized part of the Empire, which might be
produaive of infinite mifchief; but would any man
fay that danger could now arife from the failing
of thofe fleets; which, if they intended mifchief,
did no more than put themfelves in a tangible
form; in a fituation in which they could be met by
an equal force. He would not then give bimfelf
the trouble to look over old maps, or rub the dull
from old treaties —but he could fay with confi-
dence, that his Majefty's Minifters would put up
with no national indignity. When an indignity,
in the moft formidable fhape, was intended to be
pff er ed to this country, when almoft all the mari-
time powers of Europe had combined againft her
jolt rights, it was frefh in the recollciftion of Gen-
tlemen how, and with what vigour, Minifters re-
pelled that combination, and how it was termi-
nated. If the prefent negociation amid unfortu-
nately be broken off, or if, in the courfe of it, any
indignity fhould be offered to this country, it would
be refitted, not by fuper-human talents, or roper-
human no ans (for thefe did not belong to any
country). but by that ardent (pint, that integrity
and zeal for the public (Orrice, which had uni•
formly diflinguiflied the brave defenders of this
country—and by every thing that hitherto afforded
us proteaion.
The following rcfolutions were then read by the
Chairman, and agreed to : That the rum of
3094771. be voted for the ferries of the Rquiar May by
Great Britain.
" za0,423L for the Regular Army in Ireland.
* 386,6571. for the Forces in the Plantations, including thole
in Gibraltar, Malta, Minorca' Egypt, and New South Wales.
" 63521 for four Troops ofDragoons and feventeen Compa-
nies of Foot, fupported in Great Britain for recruiting the Forte
In the Eaft Indies.
" 411,t89L for the Fcncibk Corps in Great Britain.
* 84•0131. for the FaxibliCorps in [Mind.
" 99,0641 for the Barrack Deli:maw in Great Britain.
39,3071 for the Barrack Department in Ireland.
75,5 r :I. for the fupport of the Foreign Corps in the ferrite
of Great Britain."

The Houfe returned ittelf, and the Report was
ordered to be received to-morrow.

WAYS AND MEANS.
The fionfe having relayed itfelf into a Com-
mittee of Ways and Means,
The CHANCEI.I.O2 of the Exclaves' Paid, that
whatever difference of opinion might take place
upon other fubjeds he was palisaded that it
would be generally a:slit:lined that, under the pre-
cept circumLlances, it would be extremely loupe
dient and undefirable to enter into!any contra& for
the ferrite of the whole year, and that the moll
eligible method for the ftipplyof prefent Wracks
would be by a farther as °UR:chequer Moots

Ike therefore moved, 4$ That it be the opinion of.
the Committee, that towards prov:dirit the fitpplx
for the fervice of his Majelty, there be raifed the
rum of one million, by Loan or Essikequer Bills."
Agreed to.—The Houfe reamed itfilt, and the re-
port was ordered to be received cc-morrow.