Star.
London, England, 1809-02-25 00:00:00

GRAND LOTTERY.

FREE GIFT of__ ONE THOUSAND WHOLE TICIEXTS
the First Day, Numbers as follow :
9,001 e. to
4,501
5,001
6,501
7,001
8,501
9,001
10,501
11,401
1:,501
Also a FREE GUT of FIVE HUNDRED WHOLE TICKITS
to the first-drawn above Xl5, the Second Day,
Numbers as follow :

13,001
14,301
15,001
16,501
17,001
above Tickets may gain the whole of the following
CAPITAL PRIZES: _ _

I .... ..... of
I
,
Begins APRIL 12th, 1809.
In consequence of the above Gifts of 1,500 Tickets, there are
only 18,500 fur Sale.

TO BE SOLD BY AUCTION,
AT THE CUSTOM-HOUSE, SOUTIIIWOLD,
On Thursday, March 2, 1809, at ten o'clock in the forenoon ;
ABOUT 80 Gallons of Foreign Brandy for pri-
vate use : 1500 Gallons of Foreign Geneva for ditto.
N. B. One-third of the Value of each Lot to be deposited on
the day of Sale ; the Goods to be taken away within Ten Days,
or the deposit forfeited. No Goods can be delivered on the Day
of sale. The Buyers to find their own Casks.

MOUI.SHAM HALL, CHELMSFORD, ESSEX.
HOUSEHOLD FURNITURE, VALUABLE FIXTURES,
PICTURES, and numerous Effects.
By Messrs. SKINNER, DYKE, TUCHIN and FORREST,
On Monday, the 6th of March, and Five following Days, at
Eleven o'Clock, on the Premises,
THE HOUSEHOLD FURNITURE, Valuable
Fixtures, Pictures, Oriental Articles, Library of Books,
a capital Turret Clock, Fire Engine, Lead Figures, &c. at Moul-
sham Hall ; comprising a drawing-room suite of crimson silk da-
mask, hangings of rooms, bedsteads, with a variety of furnitures,
beds and bedding, window curtains, a real India scarce black and
gold japan cabinet, linen chest, chairs and tables, mahogany
wardrobes and drawers, library cases, dining, card, and dressing
tables, capital marble pier tables, pier glasses, carpets, kitchen
ranges, stoves, coppers, reservoirs, cisterns, pumps, pipes, presses,
dressers, and fittings-up of the offices, kitchen utensils ; fencing,
fruit trees, plantations, and shrubs.
To be viewed three days preceding the Sale, (Sunday excepted)
when Catalogues may be had, at Sixpence each, on the Premises ;
and of Messrs. Skinner, Dyke, Tuchin, and Forrest, AMersgate.
street, London.

MOULSHAM-HALL—CHELMSFORD, ESSEX.
VALUABLE MATERIALS OF THE NOBLE MANSION-
HOUSE, OFFICES, AND GARDEN-WALLS.
By Messrs. SKINNER, DYKE, TUCHIN, and FORREST,
On Monday, the 20th of March, and five following days, at 11
o'clock, on the premises,
rrHE whole of the valuable and well-conditioned
MATERIALS, which comprise the capital premises,
MOULSHAM.HALL MANSION-HOUSE, occupying a scite
of 150 feet by 120 feet, with numerous Offices, Coach-houses,
Stabling, and Outbuildings; consisting of several thousand rods
of brick-work and squares of patent roof slating and tiling, capi-
tal stone pediment pilastres and flight of steps, stone coping, cor-
nices, pediment, and sash cills, large quantity of stone and clinker
pavement, marble and stone chimney-pieces, Ste. capital roofing,
oak and fir girders, hressumers, story-posts, rafters, and quarter-
ing, several hundred squares of oak and fir flooring, boards and
joists, wainscoting and partitions, many tons of lead, in roofing,
gutters, stacks of pipe, ridges and hips, about 200 sash-windows,
frames, and shutters, capital doors and cases, staircases, and water
closet; also, the Erection of the Coach-houses and Stabling, Gar-
den-house, and the extensive Garden-walls.
The whole of the Materials are exceedingly good, and conve-
niently situate for water carriage, being within a mile of the
Chelmsford Navigation.
To be viewed six days preceding the Sale (Sunday excepted),
when Catalogues may be had, at One Shilling each, on the Pre-
mises, and of Messrs. Skinner, Dyke, Tuchin, and Forrest, M-
dersgate-street, London.

1 0
1 0
0 0

o o
1 o

TIMBER.
TO BE SOLD, 160 Acres of very fine OAK
LTIMBER mixed with some very valuable ASH and
ALDER, all of above 100 years growth. It is situated within
fifteen miks of Clonmell, and twenty-one of Limerick, In the
Kingdom of Ireland, from each of which Towns there is water
carriage.—Proposals (post paid) will be received until the 3d of
March, by Wm. Roper, Esq. 34, North Great George's-street,
Dublin, and further particulars may be known, by application to
Mr. John Nesbitt, No. 16, Tokenhouse-Yard, London.

5 0

VARTEG IRON WORKS, NEAR PONTIPOOL, MON-
MOUTHSHIRE.
r-I
'0 BE DISPOSED OF, THREE SHARES in
-L the above Concern. The Concern consists of a large track
of Land, known by the name of the Varteg Mountain, containing
an immense quantity of Mines and Minerals, under Lease for
MI years, 54 of which are unexpired. There is already erected
one blast furnace capable of making forty to fifty tons of pig
iron per week, with a blast engine, and about 50 workniens'
houses, beside a Store-house, Stable, Retail Shop, and two Free-
hold Estates near the premises. Head ways to the different stratas
1 of coal and mine are opened sufficient to supply the blast furnace,
at which a considerable quantity of pig iron of the most approved
quality has been made, and rail roads are laid down for conveying
materials to and pig iron from the said furnace. There is also a
very powerful and complete Rolling-mill, capable of rolling SO to
100 tons of bar iron per week, as well as a Forge for shingling
and drawing out its uses, with about 45 workmens' houses, built
mostly on two other freehold estates belonging to the same. The
said Mill has rolled near fifty tons per week of bar iron for the
last three years, connections for which are established, and the
same is kept regularly at work. There are railed roads and in-
clined planes from the said mill to the furnace, and they join to
the rail road of the Monmouthshire Canal--. 13 miles and three-
cleat ters from Newport, the shipping port. The Blacnaven Iron
Works are within two milts and a half of the said mill, where a
very large quantity of pig iron is made, the whole of which passes
within a few yards of,the mill door. From the increasing dbmand
for coals at Newport, there is little doubt but great quantities will
be eventually raised at the said Varteg Mountain, and advan- '
tageously disposed of, as the quality is known to be good. The
said premises have lately been surveyed by persons experienced in
the iron and coal trade, who report the mated.* for making pig
iron to be exceeding gam, and that the same can be made at a very
reasonable rate, the particulars of which, as well as all other re-
lating to the concern, may be known by applying to Mr. Daniel
Rose, at the said Iron Works; or to Mr. Thomas Rose, Cole-
brook-dale, Shropsbire.—The above original Shares will be suid
worth the Doti* of the purthaser.—Letten, pustimi addressed
ii,s above, will meet with due swinOaa. . .

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The SPEAKER acquainted the House, that Mr. Robert Wil-
liams, the petitioner against the return of Mr. Giles, at the late
election for St. Alban's, had neglected to enter into the usual re-
cognizanees within the time prescribed by law. The order for
taking the said petition into consideration was consequently dis-
charged.
Basset's Divorce Bill, from the Lords, was read the second
time, and committed for Monday.
Mr. O'HARA. obtained leave to withdraw his Irish Conga.
bin' Bill, and presented another, which was read a first time, and
ordered for the second reading on the 11th of April.
Mr. Alderman COMBE moved to postpone the consideration
of the Report of the Committee on Pensions and Offices, front
Tuesday neat until she llith Mardi.
Mr. BLACKBURl'Mpresentlctaliditlob from the Working
Cotton Manufacturers of Lancashire, praying a Bill for settling
a minimum on the rates of wages.
Mr. DAVIES GIDDY said, that averse as he was to any strong
mark of discountenance to petitions coming from any class of sub-
jects before that House, yet he felt it his duty, on the present oc-
casion, out of lenity to the petitioners themselves, to give the ear-
liest opposition to a petition, praying that which it was scarcely
possible for the House in its wisdom to grant, because it would
be the most ruinous principle which could be adopted in any
country, namely, that of fixing by a law a minimum or a maxi-
mum to the price of labour, food, or any thing else, which in their
very nature, must always fluctuate in different places according
to local and temporary circumstances. Something of the kind
was attempted during the French Revolution under Rober-
spierre, for settling a maximum on the price of provisions, and
which was productive of the most dreadful consequences to the
'French nation. Were it adopted in the present case, it would
have the effect of throwing almost perpetually out of employ-
ment immense numbers of the petitioners themselves, and aggra-
vating, in at incalculable degree, the distresses of which they com-
plained. He had taken much pains to inform himself on the
subject of this petition, and the more he considered it, the more
ruinous to the petitioners he saw would be a compliance with
their request. Seeing, therefore, the utter impolicy of such a
compliance, he thought the sooner they were taught to feel there
were no hopes to be entertained that Parliament would accede to
their eject, the greater would be the lenity shewn to them, and
the more speedily would they be saved the further loss of time
and expence, as well as restrained from tumult and disturbance.
He should therefore move that the petition be dismissed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER coincided with
the Hon. Gentleman as to the impossibility of complying with
Ate petition, upon considerations of lenity towards the petitioners
themselves. But he was against any proceeding that might have
the appearance of harshness or discouragement towards any class
of subjects, in exercising the right, common to all, of petitioning
that House. He was, therefore, to think that the peti-
tion should be allowed to lie on the table, without, at the same
time, holding out any hopes to the petitioners that it was likely to
be complied with.
Mr. CURWEN thought, if the petition Was referred to a
Committee up stairs, some did might be suggested for the pe-
titioners, who were really very much distressed.
Mr. ROSE said, the subject had been before a Committee two
years since which, after long and minute deliberation, could sug-
gest no relief for the petitioners. It had occurred to him. that the
same kind of regulation which had been found so salutary in the
case of the silk manufacturers, namely, that of referring the re-
gulation of the rates of workmanship to the Magistrates at the
Quarter Sessions, might have the best aft tt ; but the idea of a
maximum or minimum in the price of labour, provision, or corn-
moditiesnf any kind, was totally inadmissible. If however, the
House should think fit to refer this petition to a Committee, he
would most readily attend it from day to day, and give every aid
in his power.
After a few words from Mr. ADAM and Mr. PATTISON, the
petition was ordered to lie on the table.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND presented his bill
to amend the Laws respecting child murder in Scotland.—Read
the first time, and ordered for the second reading on Tuesday
next.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT moved for an account of the sums dis-
bursed tram the various departments of the Revenue in Ireland,
under the head of Incidents, for the last three years, and the au-
thorities on which they were disbursed.—Ordered.
A petition was presented by Mr. MELI.ISH for leave to bring
in a bill for making an archway through Highgate Hill.
Another petition was presented by the same Honourable Mem-
ber for the incorporation of a Gas Light Company.—Both were
referred to a Committee up stairs.
The Report of the Irish Malt Distillery Bill was brought up,
and ordered to be taken into further consideration on Monday.
THE DUKE OF YORK'S LETTER.

Mr. WHITBREAD said, he rose for the purpose
of drawing the attention of the House to an act
which in his opinion more deeply affected the privi-
leges of the House than any thing that had ever oc-
curred since he had the honour of a seat in it. The
act he alluded to was the letter written by his Royal
Highness the Duke of York, addressed to that House,
and conveyed to it through the medium of the
Speaker. The Speaker had certainly done his duty,
as he always did with the greatest propriety and cor-
rectness on every occasion, by informing the House
of the method usually pursued in cases of letters ad-
dressed to the House, being communicated through
him, and the result was, that the paper was ordered
to lie on the table. If he (Mr. Whitbread) did not
then object to it, a few minutes' reflection enabled
him to ascertain to his own satisfaction, that the true
mode of proceeding would have been to move that
the debate be adjourned. It appeared to him that
this letter struck at the privileges of the House, by
stating that it had examined evidence which it ought
not to have done. His Royal Highness was as com-
petent to have written to the House in the first in-
stance that it ought not to institute and carry on any
enquiry on such evidence as would be produced be
fore it. If it was the intention of any one of those
who had advised his Royal Highness to write this
letter, hereafter, to make any motion on the subject,
the House would then be enabled to form a judgment
what line of conduct ought to be adopted respecting
it. Till he received some answer on that head, he
should content himself with repeating, that he deemed
the letter to be a gross violation of the privileges of
the House.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said he did not know how, according to the rules of
the House, he could take notice of what the Honour- '
able Gentleman had said, as he had sat down with-
out making any motion. He himself thought -as
highly as any one of the privileges of that Hotise ; and
it d►d not appear to him, that any thing in the letter
In question could be said to be an attack on, or an in-,
fringement of them. If the Honourable Gentleman
bad wade any motion, he should hav! been able to

have drawn a conclusion on what he meant. All he
could now collect was, that there was something con-
tained in the letter which seemed to protest against
the justice of the proceedings of the House upon this
head, on the ground that the evidence examined be-
fore-it was not under those particular sanctions which
the law required in other cas.:s. So fir from this being
the fact, all he understood by the letter was no more
than this, that his Royal Highness, supposing himself
to be attacked in such a manner as to make it neces-
sary to go into an enquiry, in order that the whole
should be elicited in the most open mode, and find-
ing that the evidence was closed, intended to lay be-
fore the House an allegation of his innocence ; and if
the House should after that allegation be inclined to
doubt his innocence, he states, that he hoped the
House will not enter upon any proceeding which may
have the effect of condemning him before he can
have a trial, in which he will have the advantage of
evid cc under all the sanction and solemnity of the
law aw. swain that Highness had
not the smallest intention to attack the privileges of ,
the House ; and how the letter could be conceived
an attack on them, he (Mr. Perceval) could not con-
ceive. That it was not wholly unprecedented, he
contended was appare:ut from what the Speaker had
stated on the preceding night. If any farther infor-
mation could be obtained by means of a Committee
searching for precedents, he should be extremely glad
of it. The Honourable Gentleman wanted to know
whether he (Mr. P.), or any one of his Right Hon.
Friends, intended to move any thing on the subject.
For his own part, he had no such intention, nor had
he heard or understood that any one else had. The
letter was now become a document on the table, and
like any other paper or petition which was ordered to
lie there, might be referred to by every Member of
the House ; and every individual who might refer to
it, might make what remarks on it he pleased,• or
adopt any proceeding relative to it which he thought
necessary.
- Lord HENRY PETTY thought the question of
such extraordinary importance as to require the par-
ticular attention of the House, being, in his opinion,
a direct attack on its privileges. He had not under-
stood his Honourable Friend to object to the letter, in
as far as it contained an allegation of innocence, but
in going beyond that allegation. It was subject to
the obvious meaning or opinion, that no declaration
could be come to by that House on the evidence laid
before it, but such as would carry it out of the pro-
vince of the llouse ; and when the word " condem-
ned" was considered, it was to be inferred that the
House ought not to determine on the evidence laid
before it, which was the only evidence that it could
receive. Hetherefore, thought, with his Honourable
Friend, that House had, by the vote of last night,
permitted a letter to be put on the table which was
an attack on their privileges. "
THE INQUIRY.

The CHANCELLOR of tic EXCHEQUER
said, that he found, on an appliCation to the Printer
of the Minutes, that he would not be able to have
those which related to the Inquiry into the conduct
of the Commander in Chief, ready to deliver to the
Members of the House so soon as Monday next ; nor
could he even answer for Tuesday or Wednesday.--
He thought, therefore, it would be necessary to en-
large the time beyond that which had been fixed for
bringing up the Report ; and as the Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread) was in possession of
Monday se'nnig,ht, he was at a loss how to fix so
early a day as he could wish, unless the Hononrable
Gentleman would agree to postpone his motion to a
future day. The Honourable Gentleman had already
so frequently postponed it, that he hardly knew how
to ask him again to do it ; but if he could with con-
venience, he should be obliged to him.
After some conversation between the CHANCELLOR
of the EXCHEQUER and Mr. WHITBREAD, it appeared,
that as the Assizes in Ireland were nearly approach-
ing, and that many Members from that part of the
United Kingdom, who wished to be present at the
discussion of the American question, could not con-
veniently remain in town longer than Monday se'n-
night, it was agreed that Mr. Whitbread's motion
should stand as tt was already fixed, for that day, and
that the Report on the Inquiry into the conduct of
the Duke of York, should be taken into consideration
on Wednesday the Bth of March.
OFFICES FOR THE SALE OF PLACES UNDER GOVERNMENT.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, it would be recollected by the House, that the
Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Wardle) when
he brought forward his charges, had mentioned an
office in the city, kept for the sale of places under
Government, in which the names of the Lord Chan-
cellor and the Duke of Portland had been used. He
had then said, he would be glad to give every assist-
ance to the Honourable Gentleman, in order to dis-
cover if any such unjust practices were really in ex-
istence. Since that time, a Gentle Man had observed
an advertisement for the sale of a place under Go.
vernment, and had applied accordingly to the office
of Poleman and Keylock, who informed hinithey had
a place under Government to dispose of. He in-
formed the Chancellor of the Exchequer of it, who
sent for the Solicitor to the Treasury, and desired him
to go with the Gentleman, and make an advance of
any sum that might be required, to endeavour to find
out if any such practices did exist, so as to fix them
with a prosecuti In. They had accordingly proceeded,
and a sum had been agreed on, which was deposited,
and by the advice of the Attorney mil Solicitor Ge-
r eral, Polema t and Keylock, and a Mrs. Harvey,
were indicted; there was also a banker.
Mr. Alderman COMBE thought the Right Hon.
Gentleman should mention the Banker's name.
The CHANCELLOR 'of the EXCHEQUER
said, he did not exactly recollect it, and might there-
fore, by giving a •wrong name, do more harm than
good.
REPORT ON THE INQUIRY INTO THE CONDUCT OF THE
DI AZ OF TORY.
Mr. TLERNEY wished to know, if, i►Aen the R.

~ _.

14,--
-1- • • a'

and how far their power of co-operation really ex-
tended. Ministers ought not to have employed young
men, who are naturally inclined to be volatile and
heedless, but such as were of most experience, and
not liable to be led away by false or doubtful ills-
pearances—men who could form a sound judgment
as to the principles and inclinations of those who filled
the first rank, and were held in the highest estimation
in that country—men who could discern the particu-
lar bent and bias of the minds of the middle class of
society there, that great and binding link between those
of the higher and the lower rank, and how far they
were ready and willing to undergo all the miseries,
and to suffer the various and manifold privations they
were likely to suffer by entering into the arduous con-
flict. He did not mean to speak disrespectfully of the
Spaniards, but they did not appear to him to be pos-
sessed of that warmth and enthusiasm of character
which was so necessary to ensure success. In the
war of the Succession, the first people in the country
shewed no public spirit or energy whatever, but were
constantly fluctuating between their adherence to
Charles and Philip. In the present state of the coun-
try, there did not seem to be that sublime patriotism,
that animated enthusiasm and energetic principle,
which were necessary to resist the 'lower of France.
It was necessary to know if the Spanish people were
sensible of the defects of their former Government—
whether they knew and understood the miseries into
which they were certainly to be plunged, and the pri-
vations to which they must inevitably submit, before
they could expect even a prospect of success. Unless
they were fully sensible of all these particulars, and
animated with spirit and patriotism enough to enable
them to bear such sufferings with patience and perse-
verance, it was in vain for any man to suppose the
contest could be carried on with any prospect or chance
of success to Spain. He did not mean to say it was
necessary for Ministers to interfere or dictate to Spain;
but if they did not by some means or other obtain the
best possible information on those points, vain indeed
must be their interference, and futile theirhopes of suc-
cess. What would have been the situation of England,
if she had suffered herself to .be held in the trammels
of a superstitious Lid degraded priesthood ? What
would it have been, if she had patiently endured the
slavery and oppression of the feudal system, and not
have been animated to obtain laws, which, instead of
oppression, secured property, liberty, and life, to
every individual, and thereby led to that Constitu-
tion, which formed the real glory, grandeur, and
stability of her power ?—What information his Ma-
jesty's Ministers had received on the points he had
mentioned, he was altogether ignorant of ; but it was
a notorious fact, that from the commencement to the
end of the contest, the people knew less than ever they
didof any war in which this countryhad beenengageol.
We had infinitely more intelligence of passing events
when the Emperor of Francewas fighting against RUE..
sia on the banks of the Vistula, than at a time when our
armies were acting in Spain, and our fleets inpossession
of, and lining the whole of the coasts, both of that coun-
try and of France. Ministers ought, however, to have
known how far the Spaniards were inclined to go,before
they ventured to send in the face of the most powerful
and best disciplined army in Europe, that compara-
tively small proportion of our army, which they placed
under the command of Sir John Moore. The first
step which was taken was the expedition under the
command of Sir Arthur Wellesley on the 15th July.
The gallant General went to Gallicia, 'but the Junta
told him they did not want men, and advised him to go
to Portugal. When the gallant General went to Por-
tugal, by the direction of the Noble Lord, the fate of
Spain was decided—for it was not possible to succour
effectually Spain till that campaign was concluded.—
On the 30th of August that event took place, and he
desired to know why so long a time had elapsed, be-
tween that and the 16th of October, the day on which
Sir John Moore set out for Spain. The gallant Ge-
neral had told the House the other night, that an
English army was, in his opii,ion, necessary in Spain,
and that in the heart of the country; and yet, though
the campaign in Portugal ended the 30th of August,
Sir John Moore did not set out for Spain till the 16th
of October. On the 13th of October, the army under
Sir David Baird landed at Corunna, and it was not
till the 27th of that month that it was disembarked.
On the 27th of September, the Central or Supreme
Junta, were installed at Madrid, and yet it was ne-
cessary to wait till the 27th of October, to get the
consent of that Junta to their landing. There should
have been some person there to have informed Sir
David Baird, whether he would be allowed to land
his men by those, to whose assistance they were
sent ; but it appeared there was not any body from
this country fir any such purpose, till the 7th of No-
vember, that Mr. Frere arrived at Madrid. He did
not mean to depreciate the talents of Mr. Frere, but
he was not in his (Mr. Ponsonby's) opinion, a proper
man for that purpose. The most proper would have
been a military man—the state of Spain was or ought
to be wholly military, and none but a military man
was equal to the situation of Mr. Frere. On the 14th
of November General Moore reached Salamanca.—
He wished the House to observe, how the French
were employed all this time ? After the surrender
of Dupont, the whole remnant of the French army
in Spain were concentrated in Navarre. Bonaparte
had not a force that could face the Spaniards, and
was therefore under the necessity of drawing off the
forces which had been employed in the Prussian
and Polish war. He had no maritime assistance, but
was compelled to forward them by forced marches,
The Emperor of France went to Erfurth, settled
matters with the Emperor of Russia, retprned to
France, communicated his intentions to the Senate,
and on the sth day of November, nine days before
Sir John Moore reached Salamanca, he arrived at
Bayonne, and put himself at the head of those forces
which had arrived from the banks of the Vistula.—
He requested to know why there had been so much
delay on our side, opposed to the celerity and energy
on that of our enemy ? It was not in the power of this
country to furnish a great military force, and there-
fore it was necessary that force should be kept in a
body, and not broken into fragments, which render-
ed it incapable of acting with effect. He desired
therefore to know why it was that Sir David Baird
and Sir John Moore delayed so long to join their for-
ces ? What was the consequence ? The gallant Ge-
wml had told t le House that he considered an Engidt
al my wasnecessary,toholdtogether the Spanish forces,
and to reap the advantages which might retult from a
co-operation with them. He must have communi-
cated this opinion to Ministers, and they must know

port was brought up on Wednesday se'nnight, the
Right Hon. Gentleman intended to come forward
with say specific proceedings on it ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, he did not conceive he had any thing to do with
the business in the way the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman had mentioned. He conceived it to be in the
hands of the Honourable Gentleman who brought
forward the accusation, and he did not think it would
be proper for him to interfere in it, as he naturally
supposed the Honourable Gentleman, whom he did
not then see in his place, would bring forward some
proceeding or other on it.
Lord FOLKSTONE said he did not rise to object
to any thing which had been said by the last speaker,
but thought he had `reason to complain of the Right
Honourable Gentleman below him (Mr. Tierney), as,
his question seemed to. insinuate that his Honourable
Friend had abandoned the business, and he wished
the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite to him to
take it up. His Honourable Friend had, however,
expressed his readiness to go on with the matter even
on the day that had been first appointed, though he
(Lord Folkstone) thought it too early a one. The
Right Honourable Gentleman might, therefore, rest
satisfied that on Wednesday se'nnight the matter
would be taken up by his Honourable Friend, who
had left the House, not supposing any thing Ivould
be said on the subject that night.
Mr. TIERNEY disclaimed any intention of even a
wish to take the business out of the hands of the Ho-
nourable Gentleman who brought forward the accu-
sation, and had only asked the question to satisfy
himself,whether on that night any proceeding was to
take place on bringing up the Report ?
coN oci-r OF .111 r: watt IN SPAIN.
Mr. G. PONSONBY said he rose to submit to the
House an inquiry on a subject as highly important to
the honour, fame, and interests of this country as any
which had ever claimed their attention. If he had
not given any notice on the subject, the very expres-
sions he had used would have presented to the mind
of every one who heard hint that he alluded to the
conduct of the campaign in Spain. When the insur-
rections at Madrid and other places in Spain were
first made known to this country, the circumstances
pf the world were such as made it the most important
crisis for those who possessed his Majesty's confidence
that could well be imagined. All the Powers of the
Continent of Europe were prostrate at the feet of the
Conqueror of its destinies, and either from the weak-
nests or the versatility of their Councils, had, one after
another, succumbed and submitted to the power and
aggrandizement of the Emperor of France. England
alone was found to be the only power capable of
any further resistance to the gigantic power of
France. The House of Austria had, against the
advice of her wisest and most prudent counsellors,
plunged headlong into the third coalition against
France, and the fatal consequences which followed
had reduced her to a state of absolute weakness.—
Whether seduced by the power of France, or wearied
with her former alliances, Russia had not only ceased
to be the enemy, but had suffered herself to be drawn
into a close alliance with the Eniperor of France.
Thus stood the world_; and when those who had so
long been her enemies had at length become her vas:
sals or allies, there unexpectedly arose an opposition
to the arms of France, in a country which had not
only been in strict alliance, but even in a state of the
most abject dependence to her power. Spain, so
lately her vassal, had risen in insurrection against her
oppressive mandates, and had applied to this coun-
try for assistance, just before the close of the last
Ses,;:on of Parliament ; but it was not in the power
of his Majesty's Ministers then to lay before the
House any information on the subject. The whole
management of this delicate and important affair had
been left entirely to Ministers. Parliament had no
power to interfere or to take any share in it,
the Session being at its close. Ministers had, how-
ever, every thing which Parliament could bestow, to
enable them to act with spirit and effect. They were
granted without hesitation every guinea they could
ask ; they had a vote of credit to the utmost extent
of their wishes. There was but one mind, one heart,
and one undivided spirit, among all the people of the
Empii e. No Ministers before them ever experienced
such unexampled unanimity in the nation, to forward
and promote the success of every measure they might
think proper or requisite to adopt, for the assistance'
of the Spaniards ; apt a man who expressed a wish
but of effecting the liberty of Spain. Standing on
that eminence from which Ministers could view the
prospects that were shut to all other eyes, it was their
pai,titiotiut duty, before they engaged the strength,
power, and credit of this country in that project—
before they employed its wealth in any expeditions,
either by land or sea—it was their duty to make them-
;elves well acquainted with the real situation of Spain.
1 he first nieasure they ought to have adopted was to
have sent 0 that country men of the most eminent
talents, both in military and civil affairs—men who
were able to lead on and conduct with effect the Spa-
nish It was their duty to have selected such
men as were likely, by the superiority of their talents,
so to take advantage of circumstances which might
be found favourable, as to break down the•overgrown
and all-grasping power of France, and by that means
to afford an opportunity to the other Powers of Eu-
rope to take the first cccasion that offered of deliver-
ing themselves from the degraded state of vassalage
alid oppression in which they were at present placed.
He did not know themen who bad been sent more than
from public report, but he could not perceive among
their names, any one who was remarkable either for
wisdom or knowledge. They were all young men,
and, as such, he feared, but little capable of form-
ing a true and sound judgment, either of the nature
and situation of the country, or of what was
passing in it. Ministers stood responsible in a
double capacity ; they were bound to adopt such
measures as should most effectually conduce not
only to the means of succes to Spain, but also of
defence to England, and to consider that they had
to administer the affairs of that country which could
alone resist France ; and it behoved them most
especially to see that they did not neglect the de-
fence of this country, in attending t. the assistance
of Spain. To judge of the true state of Spain, it
required men of the first-rate abilities. It was easy
to sae, however great our power at sea, England
the event of the contest. It
alone could not stand
awn necestizy to ascertain the true feelings
044
spirit of the spool) people' what was their Wigs,

full well, the. sooner this was done the better; yet, ito incapacity." Mr. Pensonby concluded by ann".„ fi
smite to tell t the armies of Rornana and Blake that the House should institute an inquiry into !:
a
were overthrown at Espinosa and Reynosa beforelSir causes, consequences, and events of the Spanish ern. li
John Moore arrived in Spain. On the 10th of No- pain. b
vember one Spanish army was destroyed ;on the Lord CAS'TeLEREAGH trusted the House wo•Il i a
c,)::
12th of November another, and on the 14th of the do him the justice to believe he had no wish to
- e
same month, the English army arrived in Spain. Of teal any thing relating to the late campaign, ;••I,t v
what-Use was it to the Spanish armies ? Was it to pointed out the impromety of the Hon. Gentleman's 1
unite with them after they were annihilated ? What bringing forward this subject before he had an oppn'. o
then was the state of the two. English armies ? Was tunity of possessing himself of that information which s
Sir David Baird enabled to form a junction with the will soon be laid before the House, and which alp:;,. c
other under Sir John Moore ?So far from it, he had could enable him to decide on the conduct cf Mi:. c
not even money enough to enable him to effect that sters. The melancholy events formed no basis op t
purpose. It might be allowed, that there were acci- which he could ground a charge against the Braid, 1
dents that might have prevented him ;he might, Government, if the forces bf England, which acted •
from the non-arrival of a transport with part of his but as auxiliaries, did not arrive on the scene of actior
troops, or with necessary artillery or ammunition, till the armies of Spain were subdued. The measi:7c,
have been delayed ; but who could suppose that Mi. they had taken with respect to the internal regulatim,
nisters would have sent him out with an army with- iof Spain, as they were blended with no selfish view,.
out a few casks of money, to enable him to provide a be doubted not would meet the approbation el I.rc
necessaries for transporting his army from one place country. The Hon. Gentleman had spoken ral,,i.
to another ? So it was, however : and Sir David on theyropriety of acting with promptness and &c:.
Baird was obliged to apply to and depend on the sion, yet he had, while censuring them for I: .i7:g
credit of private individuals. Afterwards the armies slow in sending assistance, compla'r.ed of the r t
of Leon and Estramadura were successively annihi- having informed themselves of many particularswhch
laced, without giving the French army, as Bonaparte could only be acquired by an investigation, which,
himself expresses it, any farther trouble than that of ' from its nature, must necessarily occupy a considera.
a few marches against them. On the 15th of De- ble portion of time. The Honourable Gentleman had
cember Madrid capitulated. In all that time not a stated that he had been informed by persons, wh0,.2
single British soldier had appeared in action in Spain. opinions he could place much confidence in, that there
The gallant General had told us, that celerity of , never was a prospect of ultimate success. He thought
movement and quickness in dispatch were necessary' there was a great probability of success, from ole
to ensure the success of our army. Shall we not general impulse which impelled the different pre.
then ask why these delays took place ? Do not these vinces to rise, and from the brilliant successes which
things demand inquiry ? In this situation Sir John attended many of their operations. The reflectin
Moore found himself in the month of December, and cast by, the Honourable Member on the Spanish na-
both he and Sir David Baird had determined to re- ' tional character, he thought harshly expressed in the
treat, as they found it would be impossible to con- hour of her misfortunes. His Lordship vindicated
tend with the immense armies opposed to them ; and the conduct of Spain, and gave a variety of in.
fortunate indeed it would have been if that determi- ' stances of their valour. In particular, he alluded to
nation had been pursued. But the opinion of these ' the bravery displayed at Saragossa and Valencia._
Commanders was again changed—and why ?—ls it In fact, the Spanish armies wanted nothing to render
not proper to know why they did not retreat, as at their victories as decisive as they were glorious, but
first intended ? was it in consequence of orders from 'an adequate proportion of cavalry. The Right Ho-
home t or was it from the officious interference of I nourable Mover has said, that we should derive our
those not at home ? He had heard that Mr. Frere , own information from the report of proper officers,
had requested Sir John Moore to advance, with an ' sent for the purpcse of ascertaining the temper and
assurance that the Spaniards would be able to co- disposition of the Spanish people. Put the Noble
operate powerfully with him. Which of these ac- Lord would inform him that circutostaoce, in his
counts was true, he did not know ; but our ignorance opinion, was far superior to report. The battle of
was a greater reason for inquiry. On the 21st of I Baylen alone evinced their temper ; the circumstance
December Sir John Moore arrived at Sahajun, and of their having an army of one hundred thousand
on the 22d the Emperor of France set out with a men on the left bank of the Ebro, was sufficient LC•
great army to attack him. On the 24th of Decem- ! monstration of their determined resolution to oppose
ber General Moore was again obliged to retreat, for i the enemy with vigour and perseverance. Thus, it
had he remained four-and-twenty hours longer in that ' would appear manifest that Ministers had a prima
position, it is more than probable that not a man of fade reason for falling in with the invitation of the
our army would have escaped. He had heard this, Spanish people desiring our co-operation in the con-
he said, from officers who were there, and who bad test. Having gone thus far, the Noble Loid would
assured him, that if General Moore had engaged now discuss the question of such invitation being com-
Soult's'army, he could not have succeeded. Under plied with in the most advantageous manner, and at
these inauspicious circumstances, we had lost all our ; the shortest notice. He was apprised that there ex.
magazines, all our ammunition, above 5000 horses,listed two extreme opinions on this head, but was re-
and- he feared more than the gallant General lost I solved not to give them any serious consideration,
when he said, not above four or five thousand men— convinced as he must feel that the middle course was
All these had been lost without any possibility of Iby much the safest to pur. de. It had been contended
avoiding it. Is it not known that retreat was resol- I for, that Spain, in herself, possessed all the requisite
ved on before the French force arrived' Is it not I elements of defence, and that we should not have in-
also known that it corminenced only after its arrival ? i terfered by our too hasty supply of soldiers, &c. That
This demanded therefore to be accounted for. It was , such a course should be the policy of Great Britain,
not only the loss which Britain had sustainedthat wasithe Noble Lord absolutely denied. By acting in this
to be lamented, but the effect it must inevitably have on I manner, we should be stripped of 'our honour. The
all the Powers of the Continent, for though our ar- : narrowness of our colonial views, and our national
mies had uniformly proved their bravery, England's egotism, had in many instances made us the objects
glory as a military power was lost and gone. If ever iof aversion among the other European Powers. And
we should again ask them to co-operate with us, they if ever an occasion presented itself for the removal
would say—No—your troops are brave, and your 1 of objections against our selfish policy, the affair of
' Generals skilful, but there is a secret something which I Spain was certainly one. He would now proceed to
paralyzes all your efforts, and causes them continually notice the other extreme, namely, that there should
to fail. When you were allies in Germany and in .be no medium between a considerable exertion, and
Holland, there were many reasons why your efforts an absolute total one ; in a word, that we shottld
were not available, but after what has passed in Spain, have applied the whole regular force of the country to
we can never more rely on that assistance as a military the object we had in contemplation. The Noble
power. As to the plan of the campaign, he did not il Lord would only say, that this so far carried con-
pretend to know it, but the persons say the north was , victiun of its impropriety, as that it recommended
the most proper, and to land at St. Andero. The ' the deprivation of national defence. He then pro-
Noble Lord had said this was a Pyrenean campaign, I ceeded to notice the impossibility of reconciling the
and that there was not only four passes, but forty. If ' application of pecuniary resources to such an ex-
this was the case, why did the Noble Lord send an tent as would be required, for the magnitude
army into Spain ? If the Spaniards could not encoun- 'of such exertions. As to the question of those exer-
ter an army of 40,000 men, how could he imagine an I tions which we had made, being seconded with suffi-
English and Spanish army could beat 400,000 or ! dent force and rapidity, he would observe, first as to
500,000 men, or all that Bonaparte could afford to I the adequacy of the force, that (exclusive of the
send thither. He did not know what plan was the ! 10,000 Spaniards, we had released from Baltic con-
best, but he had understood from all military men' finement, and who of course must be fairly included
with whom be had conversed, that from the corn- lin the contingent of men wh:ch we supplied to Spain);
mencement of the business, the idea of its terminating ! we had furnished them with an army cf 15,000
successfully was was futile, absurd, and impossible. It , tish troops, without taking into calculation the force
would be necessary, and only just for the country to which w.o, directed to proceed from the Mediterranean
know why a contest entered into with the heart and 'to assist the coast of Catalonia. That project failed
hope of all, and commencing in the brightest prol-- in consequence of the impossibility to produce such a
pects, had thus closed in darkness and disappointment : special distributir-,n of force. The Noble Lord would
—why as fine an army as ever entered the field should '. then beg leave to inquire if such were the case, who-
be wantonly exposed to perils which must carry ruin ; ther they had or not received proper directions as to
to them, and misfortune to England. He had heard' destination. Here he said that he would set one
an opinion advanced, which he by no means mention- against the other, the rival propositions of St. Andero
ed as his own, that our troops might have been em-1 and the Pyrenees, as-put forw ird by Gentlemen on
ployed with effect, as garrisons to certain seaport I the opposite side—(licar, hear !). The Noble Lord
towns on the coast of Spain. This was, however, an ! begged leave to represent, that the port of St.Andera
opinion which he would not entertain ; there seemed , was so limited and exposed, as to be inadequate ta
to be a jealousy on the part of the Spaniards, as at • the purposes of debarkation. Besides its being en--
Cadiz, and at Ferrol; and he had even heard (what bairassed by Romana's troops, the Right Hon. Gc.:•
he would believe true, unless contradicted) that our :, tl•.-.man should consider the danger to which the fo:ct.,
force, which had gone from Lisbon to Cadiz, would : debarked there would be exposed, from the attack ?;
not be allowed to enter the harbour. " All I ask (said i 40 or 50,000 of the enemy who were stationed in t'
Mr. Ponsonby) is, that this House should institute an ' vicinity of Vittoria. There would be no possib;l*
inquiry into the causes which led Ministers so to dis- I of supplying the necessary provisions to the arrn,,::
pose of the British force as to leave a doubt upon the , from the great exposure of the port, which rendereL: ,11.
public mind, whether the fortunes of Spain can ever ' communication at certain periods uncertain, it :;',L
be retrieved. This is a duty which we owe to the i impracticable. As to any objections regarding del,;F
brave soldiers who have borne with patience their un- in the matter, he would observe, that in his first 1,2 t.
paralleled distresses—soldiers such as no nation on the' ter to the gallant General near him (Sir A. Wel;c::
earth could have sent to battle but ourselves—soldiersl ley ), he directed him to open a communication V...:''
who have elevated the name of the country—in the I the Government of Spain, and particularly with C
contemplation of whose glory there is not a peasant . tanos. He received a' let:ee (not till after the on.
on the wild mountains of Scotland, or the bleak bogs' vention of Cintra), stating, that such a conespca.
of Ireland, who does not feel himself raised with a I dente had been opened, and in consequence el- th°
superior consciousness. I conjure you then to this act Spanish people having constituted a regular gov:.l
of duty by the glory of your own power ; by the re- ! ment, Lord W. Bentinck was sent from Portugal,:
putation of your country ; by every thing precious to the 14th of September, to the Central Junta, wii!c'
you as brave and free men; by the gratitude you , was constituted at Aranjuez on the 9 nil of t=:' sitzd
owe those heroes, who, falling for you at Corunna, I month. On the 2d September, the Noble Lo; 0 i 5.511
have left their honoured memories to be preserved orders, to General Dalrymple to move furv.%trd : 1
inviolate ; and.hy your respect for those who are yet the north of Spain ; and sent instructions to Sir j'!"
left to the. country,nrt whom her future reliance is vid Baird, at Cork, to proceed to Falmouth wit-L -'t
dependant, and who, I bust, will never be sacrificed delay.4
The reason which pia Noble Lord as; g