Star.
London, England, 1822-03-09 00:00:00

Mr*
poled 14$ lie;tilatatiAor of
other Mile. veliek les4 been
worded is dse same may; is the
permits. This miglithe tidied '
Ipnblie tredkati lest enesidlired
shiest light. end ihist It was
ing altogether adireneßean the ;.
lie i'esirded the Sabin foist,
broesbt in aid of tlie.mitisere; mli
had imposed the. Mahood on *
forty years that Goyenvrneno

money on terms adnantattOents.
face of such an asuntlon, *told
of 250,000,0001. of debt created '
war, not one shilling had &Gruff
coff.vs? When they looked it "
they saw it in its true colours.
Sinking Fund as that which relieved
a portion of the responsibility ,"
charge of the debt. The Hon.
was right, when he said that onl,
would be saved by this measure
was another way of transferring
ther, which would create a saving year after year,
and place them in a few Years, in a much better shun-
thin than they now were. If the Chancellor of the
Exchequer were to fund his Navy Bills in a new
Stock at 5 per cent. irredeemable under 25 years, be
would have that Stock at 1001. worth from 1201. to
1251. market price, without any loss on either side.--
If they t00k:155 Millions &pc* at £l2O the hundred,
it 'would bear an interest of t 7,750,000. This would
reduce the nominal capital to £125.500,000, being a
saving of £29,500,000, with the interest of that sum.
Nothing but such a reduction of debt would save the
country from impending evils. The plans of the
Chancellor of the Exchequer he entirely disapproved
of. He was not in the habit of using strong language,
but he must say, that he used every art and trick to
raise the price of the Funds. He now contemplated
raising the Three per Cents. to 90, and then he would
redUce the Four per Cents. But did he consider the
loss to the country by this operation ? With the Sink-
ing Fund, five millions would buy up 45,240,000,
the Stock being at £7O; but at £9O, it would require
upwards of six millions to buy up the same quantity
of Stock, entailing a loss tb the nation of nearly
I:1,.500.000. if the Right Hon. Gentleman were to
convert the Three per Cents. into a Five per Cent.
Stock, irredeemable under 28 years, it would have
the power of diminishing the capital of the Debt to
the amount of £200,000,000. He was so fully satis-
fied that the present system of the Sinking Fund was
a fatal delusion, that he'most anxiously desired to see
the end of it. The capital of the Debt never would
be lowered, but increased ,by it, because it involved
the necessity of raising the price of Funds. He would
not on the present occasion diverge into these topics,
but he hoped they would soon have a Committee, in
which the whole system might be fully canvassed.
The ATTORNEY-6ENERALroseinconsequence
of having been called upon to give his opinion. He
wouldiirst direct himself to the opinion of the last
Hon. Gentleman who spoke, and whose opinion was
different from all the others that had been given.—
lie said that to admit of the redaction of the Five
'per Cent. Stock, it was necessary that 25 millions of
debt should be reduced below the amount of
which existed at the time of passing the Act of the
24th Ge0..111. The lion. Member was to bear in
mind that a number of Acts on the subject had been
passed, viz. the 24th, 35th, 36th, 37th, and others,
regulating the paying off of this Stock. But it was
always understood that the 37th Geo. 111. re•enacted
the 24th, on which the Hon. Member had laid so
much stress. Whatever might have been the object
in 1786 with regard to diminishing the Public Debt
25 millions, be believed it would not be contended
that any such prospect was contemplated in 1794,
1795, 1796, or 1797, when, however, it might be
very consistent with probability to suppose that such
amount of the Public Debt might be reduced at a
future period. Now as to the argument founded on
the assertion that the money which had redeemed any
of the Debt was borrowed with one hand and paid
with the other, he would quote the Act of the 53d of
the late King, which, after reciting the Debt, declared
that " 238,000,0001. have actually been purchased.
or transferred to the Commissioners for the redemp-
tion of the National Debt." This, therefore, was
equal to the whole of the Debt in 1786, and the Act
went on to say, " And that amount of Debt shall be
deemed satisfied, and discharged, and be struck off
the books." Thus was the 25 millions not only re-
deemed in this way, but it was also done by the sale
of the Land Tax. He had, therefore, no hesitation in
saying, that it was his opinion that his Majesty's Go-
vernment were competent to pay off the Five per
Cent. Steck—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. WILLIAMS explained. He said, each por-
tion of the Five •per Cents. stood under a particular
Act of Parliament, and ought to be.regulated by it.
The Act of 1784 referred to one portion; that of 1796
to another, and so on.
Mr. W. SMITH thought the reduction of the debt
by 'a
redemption of the Land Tax was such a dis-
charge of Stock as would satisfy the words of the
Act of 1784 ; but certainly the idea that the raising
of loans to buy up Stock was a bona fide discharge
of the debt, was the most absurd idea that ever en-
tered the mind of man. And certainly this must
have been the idea of Mr. Pitt; for in 1792 the
Three per Cents. were about par, so that nothing
could have been more easy than to have borrowed
money with one hand to buy up a quantity of
Stock with the other, and then to have reduced the
interest of the Five per Cents. if that Minister had
thought this an honest interpretation of the Act. As
to the preamble of the Act which the Attorney-Ge-
neral had just referred to, it proved nothing, and it
almost stated a falsehood. It recapitulated Mr. Pith's
provision, that one per cent. on every loan should be
raised by taxes, to increase the Sinking Fund. .Now,
if this prevision had been adhered to up to the pre-
sent time, there would have been no difficulty about
the matter, as the reduction of the debt would have
gone on with a rapidity proportionate to its amount,
and they might have foreseen the time when it would
be annihilated. Nov that time was so distant, even
in imagination, that he agreed with the Honourable
Member for Weymouth (Mr. Williams), that whether
the Sinking Fund wit, five millions, or two and a
half, or fifteen, it was little matter; and exactly in the
proportion in which they raised the Stocks they post.
pouted, lustead of accelerating the payment of the debt.

in trusts.' The dissent of all the trustees, therefore,
was not necessary to be signified. It was proposed also
to allow three months for the Accpuntants-General
of Chancery and the &chequer to give their dissents.
Mr. CALVERT said, he did not see why so much
longer a time 'should be allowed to the Accountants-
General than to individuals, though he considered a
pneral extension of the time to be a prupet. ra,saus!
The.ATTORNEY-GENERAL'said that so inanyj
interests-were involved in the Stock in the names of
these Officers, often those of infants 'or lunatics.
Mr. CALCRAFT said, as to infants or lunatics,

sure until the political Miriam If Nampa, ie ti, peace or war,
should be cleared up. If they were to. wait for hippie! amp
they would ewer came to any &andel arrangethent whirr,
Tim ti Toe
mosalor delay must be to encourage ancit-jobblog
without giving any advantage to the fundhakkr.
Mr. TIERNEY sold, it was unfair to cap en Mai to transfer
stock at a time wham dm question of peace or war must be
soon decided. Itesolndons were liable to be &sage&
' ' Mr. MARILfATT was satisfied **sae mplanetios et di
&acuity M tbeiNeasstrtyt Ha thoitgla dim sheen be €4l+Ti
and be should give in Ise dissent now, because tool. wee sat se
advamageouslor those whom he repratenteCAV4oll. in the 4
per mats. If war should break cut Were the due expired, he
should give in his dissent.
Mr. BERNAL asid, nothing dedsive lad keen stated as to
ra.d. when the dimentknts were to be paid oiE goat* ea'
ought to beilaen.
The Committee then divided i
For Mr. Danmatt's Amendment a
a

Against it

49 1

4 143

- _ __
Majetity a '...1)4
On the clause as to the form of dissent being read,
Sock LfoLolcCiptclishedcenb iftothpelacsiemorple
Ndisecc;sitttcne
per'l receve
comb
e scuts
Were Mr. L HINGTON answered in the affirmative.
Id
Mr. PEARSit saw no objection to the form of dial*, all
stated by the. Bank of England. -
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, although there was a form it was
not a form by Act of Parliament.
Mr. COURTKNAY said, a substantive dissent would be
!sough.
Mr. WILLIAMS said, cases might occur in which parries
could lot comply with the (win prescribed by the Bank of
England as to dhow& He begged to ask what wis then
to be done T
Mr. HUSKISSON.--erbe satiric of dissent was enough, old
with was the understanding in which it begirt to be received.
The clause for Out paying off the dividends on the Stock
within twelve months was withdrawn.
Mr. ROBA RTB objected to any priority being given in the
payment of the newly-created Stock. By one of the clauses the
Government could pay uff one person in preference to another.
Why should that be the ease?
lir. WETHERELL defended the clause, and observed that
no
priority unfairly meant was intended. Every one could enr-
olee his own discretion as to his dissent or to taking advantage
of the plan bold out by Government.
Mr. ELLICE conceived the clans, not only objectionable,
but impossible to be carried into execution.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, it would be low.
possible to meet the metaphysical perfection of the identity of
payment insisted on by Members opposite.
Mr. TIERNEY wished that every man amerding to his
another siendet be paid off. .
The clause nrweiting the mode pt payment was agreed to.
Sir JOHN NEVIPORT objected to the clause that no trans-
ter of Stock shall take place after the 26th of February, which
day was already pawed.
Sir O. HILL defended the clauses - •
The clause for remunerating the Bank for the extra trouble
incurred by that establishment, was withdrawn, after some dis-
cession on the part of Id:. Gamma, Mr. Rorke: Sauna, and
Mr. Lusistsorox • as was also the Clause for punishing the for-
geries of eertificaes. •
The other clauses were then agreed to.
The House then resumed, and the Cuarawan brought up the
of R the Committee, which was read a first and second time. ecall,with the Amendments, was ordered to be engrossed,
and read a third time on Biondi), nest.

MISCELLAN&'WS
Mr. ELLICE moved that there be laid before the House an
Account of the number of Country Dank-notes stamped froth
the 10th August, 1820, to 10th August. Is2l.—Ordered.
Dr. LUSIIINGTON moved for a Return Of an monies paid
to any foreign State, by way of loan or subsidy, from the year
1? to the present time, distinguishing each year.—Ordered.

The same Honourable Member moved for a Retorts of the
sums of money due to this country from the year 1791 to the
present time.—Ordered.
Lord STANLEY moved for leave to bring in a Bill for pre-
venting frauds by secret warrants of attorney to prevent judg-
tnent.--The other Orders of the Day were then read.
Mr. LUSHINGTON gave notice that the Ordnance Esti-
mates would be brought before the House from Monday nest
to Monday se'nnight.

NAVY MUTINY BIM.

On the motion of Lord PALM ERSTON the postponement
of the Commhtemon the Marine Mutiny Bill to Monday nest

was agreed to.
Sr Romer WsLunt and Mr. Hots stated their intention of
opposing same of its clauses.
The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of. and the
Have adjourned at Half past One otlock.

LIST OF THE MINORITY

woo vows To "TIMM TNT Two 101 l MIAMI THOR otazarTo 20
Tug Toargraa or Tam mac, ►aol/ Tun 16T71 To Tux Urn

O/ Women, co owe lona co era mouses TO mecum
Al harp, Viscount Grenfell, Pascoe . -Ridley, Sir M. W.
Bennet, Hon. H. G. Hutchinam, Hon. HAtobarts, Colonel
Bernal, Ralph Holohoose, J. C. Robertson, A.
Birch, J. Hume, Joseph Kahane, A. W.
Boughey, Sir J. F. James, W. &anley, lard
Barrett, te RM. • Lambton, J. 0. Smith, Hon. Robert
Saimaa, T. N. Lashingtoo, Dr. Smith. Robert
Bright, H. Martin, John Scarlet t, J.
Calcratt, John Mooch, J. B. Tierney, Rt. Hen. G
Calla, Blr Isaac Maude, Hoe. W. Tyntc, C. K.
Concannon. Lucius Moberly, John Wood, Alderman
Campbell, Hon. N. Macdonald, J. Wilibuns, William
DeCrespigny, Sit W. Newman, R. W. Wilson, Sir Robert
Davies, Colonel Newport, Sir J. Wyvill, M.
Denison. J. O'Callaghan, Colonel •••••••••••
Mier, Edward , Palmer, C. Prole 114.1.101:
Ferpssoo, Sir R. C. Robinson, 8k a Denrain,Thocau

GRIAT SUCCISS AT HAZARD'S I—On the First Day
of Drawing, Tuesday se'nnight, HAZARD and Co.
Shared and Sold the following Capitals
N 0.467 .. OO,OOO I 2,290
. 28S
2,505
Er The Second Day of Drawing win be NEXT THURE•
DAY, lath of MARCH. The Wheel is extreowly Rich, acts
essicain&FOV R 4110,000, with others of €ll,OOOl £l,OOO, Ste.
AU Homy, and Not Two 'Ranks to a Prise. The Finn-drawn,
MOLT THURSDAY) will receive 41101,000*
'ekin, and Mares are Selling at Haman', and Co.'s Old
&tabbed and Fortunate Cam, Royal Riekangsnate; SF.
C 04111111; and J 94, Oztord-stroat, corner of Swallow.oireci
I
and by their Agents in all the principal Country norm
- • "

-•
- *7
.
. ..• .
. •", , . .. •
- • •
. .
... , , •
. . " , • • *' . ..... • ...
.• ..• .., • ,•. . ..•
• • •:...; .•
..• . . •
the Etededs_ ie! It —44lPainteille/Sibitilielialikl lila *;
. .
........,.. ,‘ .. ei. .
_____. _ - ' • ,
limiter* Dde No essuiminsisold lob pidi eir 4 ►dwrogdo!iiset .. z. = = ,•
di ,[max .1k tbs.*
the pint Caon of hek diebusiC lied,indOilveteile• 'es it •1° en parties s;onderned is • teniacilme ebbold heir Li
I knish% faith 'with di I treelleill ~ . irakie.4 diteitiffie species: • oft of curds* sidle jodismot .a. 6,, 1.. insa Hi., was -
t:6
. . ..
raked it in A "44 djlt , if, fit i - . vriim'Mriiimittlts a tent ariiiii .it POW& adlittbilattelbefpnbee ttedbiliwtonsiovitbet • lic ibb
its a rune of primed- or serenereenilirit of Slick, and tbard.. was it plus 161-iiitill" " teit...._.___ll6lol!!‘"„e IresalimintoPet bevritkitt, doldilds
„mama /store,
a interests of the notion. of BIS WOWS stpelbill rawly to- ,the omersothimi, .
. .
nect, which
.10d. boo primal wawa IMO he completed In UM &id Pair ilk. isigyakitigiktied6 AA ihay - 4044 . . eel .• . '
ii ill a Mike* wilds years. sad the part that its first
..payable aintdd Ise An timeateei *we aummer to embrace die case mentioned bt I
.
the cosntry for the last four or See per mat.lmore traiimino. thud die last...:. tie Mir far Sandwieb (111 r. mortatts. . . .
timed been borrowing The plea' ednPeed by the French 'Government,. of Mn CALCIUM!" whsle •tbe Amendment The
"to the satiate In the drawing !letter by lot. for petaled, was inert just eleetebee to blea‘lbet easiness the time tetiold giie On se
ahhtee' spetiteieti. Mesta* Is war to
Cid it be believed that to the b•Mee, enll die beet preserved an eqnal rittwihe awe dragg woad hew esam on rte Teti
. Id `tie .1111 were de
:ed by Ithins in the late valise in ',the *arias; He perfectly agreed With the pa taw acbri k wood arm* ad as 0 maim* isse;se daft _
wilts bay to the public Member for Werraeoth. as to the bad effect of the Were musty pasts of the smart alum the prectione of It snit
it in this point of view present mode of applying the Sinking Flied. The aill be blieemitild. I" • .
He cansidered-a real House then went into a Committee. • • Kr. DitbintAN alimerd *St lb. !Idle be bed reposed' Ina • ..
sad meat* ascent to relieve oft •Pessittle zone el ' •
lieved the toostrirfroal Mr. LUEIRINGTON sai4 that an alteration had " Illwii
ail* dose for the other len tO bit • bard'
eldp ; bet at passed before dos • ..
yof Prol'idtalL the bestir made in the Bill, tb meet an objection made On pesiod &add mint - •
Member for Coventry a former Melt by- n Noble Lord, and it was now de- no et LOy_DONDEICRY mid, that the •Pehei •!` mly one minion of debt dared that the dissent' might be tittered by " any knew the which the OW euetained trait the timid*
re in seven years. There trustee or trustees" in behalf of the persons interesto st"lautig",,"lillll.".""Thelifh„ karli Hat they *"6 to "hi' - '
in 4 one Stock into ano- in trosts.i. The-dissent of all the trustees. therefore. for
"..-..
77.- 7 :''''.7".`...... ifil 44 rs!"ding abils..." -