Star.
London, England, 1831-08-04 00:00:00

TUE DOCIMS Or KENT.

The order of the day was read for taking into consideration
the King's message.
Earl GREY said that he tom, in pursuance of the notice
be had given, to take into consideration his Majesty's
message, recnn:mending an adequate provision for her
Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent and the Princess
Victoria. I litherto the allowance was rot adequate to
their maintenance. When he adverted to the situation of
the Duchess of Kent, as the mother of the heir to the
Throne, or to the situation of the Princess Victoria, who,
an all human probability, would become Sovereign of this
Kingdom, no question could be entertain ed as to
o necessity of granting such an allowance to support
the high situation those Princesses may be called upon to
fill. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent had
filled her high station in such a manner as to give sada-
:action to the country, both as a wife and a mother. The
grant would originate in the other House of Parliament, but
when it would come before their lordships, he (Earl Grey)
was sure it would meet with their approval. It was usual
for their lordships to express their readiness to concur and
carry into full effect the object recommended to their lord-
ships. The noble earl concluded by moving an address,
expressive of their lordships' determination to concur and
give effect to his Majesty's most gracious Message.
After some conversation between the Earl Rosalyn, the
Lord Chancellor, and Earl Grey, as to some inaccuracy in
the address, respecting the omission of the term Royal High-
ness, instead of the word Highness, as applied to the Prin-
cess Victoria,
The address was agreed to.
TOO coot: OF CHMICIOLY.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he deemed it
his duty to bring to a Bill to remedy delay in the Court
of Chancery, which was rendered necessary, in consequence
of the existing constitution of that Court rendering it neces-
sary that all affidavits should be read before the Seal ; and
the Bill which he proposed was a short Bill, to allow affi-
davits to be read after the Seal as before, which would
enable his Lordship to expedite the dispatch of business In
the Court. In consequence of the determination he had
come to, and to get through the arrears of the business of
that Court, very little remained to be done ; but
there were parties who were anxious to take advantage of
every informality in older to procrastinate the proceedings;
and with a view to defeat those efforts to create delay ; he
trusted that their Lordships would assist the Court to get
rid of the formality of not reading affidavits after the Seal
day, which would expedite the administration of justice.
The bill only contained two lines, and if their Lordships
were of opinion that expedition was essential to the admi-
nistration of justice, their,Lordships would agreed in the cx.
pcdiency of the bilL
The bill was read a first time. and ordered to be read a
second time to-morrow.

The LORD CHANCELLOR gave notice of his inten-
tion to move the suspension of the Standing Orders to-mor-
row, in order to expedite the passing of the Bill.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY inquired of his
jeNty's Ministers, if any instruction had beta sent to the
1.3% al or mili.ary authorities at Plymouth, to receive Donna
Atari& as Queen of Portugal. It was three years since Donna
M!.•ria heti Leen in this country ; circumstances had taken
lioce in Portugal since that period, which in his judgment
r quired that this c..untry should exercise great caution as to
the course ~he pursued. lie repeatc-d bs question.
Earl 6 BEY said that he did nut consider the answer he
cot,:ti give mould throw any light on the motion the Noble
iarqttis intrudtd to bring forward. He did not know what
instrt.c.ionb were given upon the subject, or that any were
given.
On the tr.otion of the Bishop of LONDON, the report
of he church building act was received, and the bill ordered
tt. 'cc read a third time to-morrow.

Tie House aijourned at a quitter to six to this day.
HOUSE OF COMNIONS.

The O'Cottxott Dox took the oaths and his seat.

'..r. O'CONNELL presented five petitions from different
pa ,:s of Ireland, against the Kildare-street Society ; one
:tont Clara, in the King's County, cer.plaining of the
Grand Jury tzystem ; one from the letter-press printers in
site city of Du t lin, fur a Repeal of the Union ; another to
the tan:e effect, from the cotton dyers of Dublin.
On the motion of Dlr. O'CONNELL, a return was or•
doted of the Lumber of vettels rthich entered the Port of
Cork for the last 15 years; alto the amount of imports and
exports to and from Cork, for the sante period.
Mr. RUTH VEIS pretenttd a petition from Galway,
; raying that the:Roman Catholic* of that town should, be
vi.ced in the same situation, with regard to the elective fron-
t :toe, u the Protestuts. The hon. member then niovcd
ter a return of the Lumber ut Roman Catholic freemen
hived into the =palmitin of Galway since the let of April,
183 I.—Agreed to.
Sir C. CI:00TE presented a petition from the Queen's
Fumy, for a Repeal of the Cnion and Reform in Perlis-
'lament. lie should give his decided opposition to the for.
lIIKT measure, if introduced in that House.

Mr. J W Y E took that opportunity of stating that there
was a strong spirit rising in the Queen's County against the
tithe opium. He pressed on the house the necessity of adopt.
ill: some measure speedily, to obviate the insubordination
winch was growing throughout that county, by remedying
the ctils complained of in the tithe system.
31r. .1. 11 0011 presented a petition from Mr. Carlile,
cott.plaitiing of the mode in which justice. was administered
to the Law Courts. The petition set forth the
circumstances attending several trials before the Re.
corder, in which Carina was concerned. The honourable
member observed. that if the allegations contained in the
l,etitiim were correct, it became the duty of the house to
it,butt.te an inquiry into the subject. The petitioner com-
plained of the wide in which the Recorder treated the jury
which tried him last, and stated that they wire bullied by
the Recoeda, and induced by him to give a verdict against
the petitionet, sun having been in dellbetation for several

hoot. The hon. member, in conclusion, observed that a
petition containing such pose charges against the Recorders
should not be allowed to lie oo the table aoudad.
Mr. HUNT regretted drat noila-rit the members for the
City oill.ondes were present, while such a charge was made
'against the Recorder of London. There was a panda at
the Old Bailey of counsd and the judges dining and drink-
ing at the public expense. He saw counsel returning
from some of these feasts in a state which rendered them
unfit to defend prisoners. He thought this a fit subject for
a committee.
Mr. CRAMPTON conceived that the reason why none
of the City Members were present was, because they did
not expect that such a petition would come on so early.
Mr. J. WOOD presented a petition from some part of
Lancashire, complaining of Magistrates stopping up bye-
roads and private paths, to the great inconvenience of the
neighbours.
Sir G. CLERK presented three petitions from Edinburgh,
and othtr parts of Scotland, against the introduction of mo.
boors into breweries ; one from distillers. complaining of the
abuses practi-ed in consequence of the drawback duties on
spirits by the 4th of Geo. IV, and praying that the duty in
question be abolished.
Mr. O'CONNELL observed, that the Scotch distillers
derived much benefit from the drawback duty, which was
not the case with the Irish distillers.
Sir G. CLERK presented a petition from the county of
Peebles, complaining that by the proposed measure of Re-
form they were to be deprived of one of their Members-
They saw no reason fur such a course. The population ti-
eeed.tl 10,000. and several places having a mute limited
population were to have two Members.
On the motion of the same Mon. Minima, certain re.
turns were ordered respecting the quantity of foreign spirits
imported during the last year.
Mr. FERGUSON presented a petition from Burnt.
island, in Fifeshire, against the use of molasses in
breweries.
Mr. W ILKS presented a petition from an individual in
Lincolnshire, against the Game Laws.
Lord 510EPETH presented a petition from the West
Riding of the county of York, signed by 90 clergymen,
complaining of the New Beer Bill.
Mr. HUNT was sorry to see so many Petitions on this
abject horn clergymen and magistrates. It was better to
have beer houses open than drive the poor to gin shops.
Mr. STRICKLAND approved of these beer shops. He
thought that the complaints made respecting them were ill
founded. Those who went to the beer shops would go to
gin shops, if there were no other convenience. If any at-
tempt was made in that House to put down the beer shops,
be should oppose it.
Lord MORPETH begged to be understood as not adv.-
eating the repeal of the Beer Bill. The Noble Lord then
presented a Petition from Huddersfield, against shorten.
ing the hours of labour in factories • another front the West
Riding of Yorkshire, to a contrary effect ; and one from the
parish of Newtown Smith, in the county of Galway,respest.
ing the Galway franchise.
Captain GORDON took that opportunity of asking the
Secretary fur Ireland, whether the government had any
knowledge of a murder lately committed by a priest in des
west of Ireland ? The circumstances of it were already be.
the public. It appeared that this priest, having killed
one of his parishioners by a blow of a bar, had fled, and
those who witnessed the murder refused to give evidence be-
rme the Coroners inquest. He likewise wished to know if
the government had learned where the priest fled to.
Mr. STANLEY! was ready to give such information as
the government had received. It was certainly a fact, that
while a Roman Catholic priest was performing some rites in
the house of one of his parishioners, some persons assembled
outside and created confusion, and the consequence was, that
the priest killed one of them with the blow of a stick, and
then fled. This happened on the 17th; in, two days after-
wards a coroner's inquest was held, consisting of five Catho-
lics and seven Protestants. They returned a verdict, that he
died from a blow given by some moon unknown. The fact
was, there was no evidence against the priest, yet he fled,
though there was no information against him. Since he
escaped the government had got no information respecting him.
Mr. O'CONNELL rose to know why the Coronet did not
commit those persons who refused to swear before him ?
Mr. STANLEY read a statement of the facts from a
paper, which appeared he received from some of the au-
thorities who attended the inquest. The conclusion stated
that some of the witnesses refused to answer, notwithstand-
ing that they had been committed by the Coroner.
To a question by Sir IL BATEsow,
Mr. STANLEY replied that it was not the intention of
Government to make any alteration respecting the Regius
Donsum in Ireland.
Mr. 3IULLINS wished to know if it was the intent on
of Government to dismiss any of the police concerned In
the Castlepollard affray?
Mr. STANLEY declined to answer the question. He
understood that the acquittal of the police had created no
sensation in that country. What the Government might do
after the acquittal of the massed, he was not now pro-
' pared to say.
Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from an indivi-
dual, complaining of the regulations in the post office in
Dublin.
Mr. STANLEY observed that the Irish Post-office was
, under the control of the Postmaster-General, to whom he
would submit the petition.
Mr. O'CONNELL did not see why the late Secretary of
the Post-office in Dublin should have been removed to Scot-
lend. There were no complaints while Sir Edward Lees
resided.
Mr. S. RICE knew as a fact, that several money letters
bad been lost heretofore.
PRINCESS VICTORIA.
On the motion of Lord ALTIIOIP. the house resolved
itself into a Committee to consider the King's Blesage.
Lord ALTHORP apprehended that there would be no
difference among gentlemen in that house, respecting the pro-
priety of making a suitable provision for the heir presump-
tive to the throne. Hitherto the provision made for her was
very trifling. On the birth of the Princess Charlotte of
Wales an annuity of 8,0001. was settled on her for her
maintenance ; in a few months afterwards 9,0001. weregranted
to her out of the consolidated fund; 34,7771. were afterwards
granted to her out of the Droits of the Admiralty, making in
all 43,7771. within 10 years, exclusive of her annuity of6oool.
amounting on an average to 10,0001 a-year for the first 10
years. In 1825,a provision was made for the Princess Vic-
tons ; 6000 L altar was granted to the Duchess of Kent fot her
education ; at the same time 6,0001. more were settled on
the Duchess hi rself. What he now proposed was that
10.0001. more be granted to the Duchess of Kent for the
maintenance of the Princess Victoria, making in all 22,0001.
a-year. The honour of the country. required that the Ink
presumptive to the throne should receive a suitable education
and maintenance; and be felt sure that no Hon. Member
would object to a proposal which was necessary to support
her dignity and comforts. The Noble Lord concluded by
moving a resolution that 10,0001. a-year be paid out of the
Treasury to the Duchess of Kent.
The question having been put,
Mr. HUNT was surprised that such a proposal should
emanate from ministers, who were pledged to economy.
The Noble Lord should take into consideration the diffe-1
race in the value of money now, and when•the grant was
Princess
made for the Charlotte. Had he been in the House
ellen the Queen's dowry bill catne under consideration, be
should have opposed it. He should now move that instead of
10,0001. 5,0001. a year be granted for the Princess Victoria.
Sir F.BURDETT regretted that any objection should be
made to so moderate a proposal. The proposed grant was
little enough for the education of a person of the rank of' the
Ptinci.ss. The grant would certainly not enable her to live
in splendour. He did not see how any person could have
any other feeling than that this was little enough fur the ob-
ject for which it was proposed. He hardly knew that it
was creditable to this country that the Duchess of Kent
should he in part depending on the bounty of her brother lat-
terly. Her conduct, and that other brother on the occasion,
were highly praiseworthy. He was surprised at the objec-
tion made by the hon. member for Preston. The situation
of the Duchess of Kent (being so limited in her circum-
stances) did no credit to this country.
Sir R. PEEL coincided in what fell from the Hon. Baro-
net. lie thought that the provision proposed was liberal, it
the same time it was not too much. The Duchess of Kent
was exposed to many claims on account of her station. The
conduct of her brother, whilst in this country, in assisting
her, was highly creditable. He was satisfied that a great
deal of this grant would be expended on charitable objects.
He would give It his cordial support, satisfied as he was that
it was very moderate.
Colonel DAVIES indulged in a high eulogium on the
conduct of the Duchess of Kent, sad expressed his satis-
faction that the country would be very well pleased with
the grant.
Mr. HUGHES requested of Mr. Hunt to withdraw his
motion.
Sir 31. W. RIDLEY, in supporting the grant, took that
opportunity of suggesting to the noble lord the propriety
of -having the name of the Felucca Victoria chased. He

......

thought that if she was called Elisabeth, it would met with
the approbation of the country. (I.**o4o_
Mr. 9'CONNELL and Mr. AUTHVEN Welly sup.

grant._ _ _ -
ported the
After a few ward. from Mr R. INGLIS,
Lord A LTHORP felt perfectly satisfied at the mode
which the House bad received the proposition. With respect
to the proposal of the boo. gentleman (Sir M. W. Ridley),
be (Lord Althorp) thought that the county would be as
well satisfied with a Queen of the name of Victoria as-st any
other name. She certainly might be as well distinguished
under one name as another.
Alderman WAITH MAN supported the grant.
Mr. HUNT felt as much attachment to the Royal Family
as any member in that house; but he did not deem It a proper
feeling to give so much to an individual when waren were
starving in the north of England. He would persevere with
his motion.

Mr. W. TAYLOR observed that it was an Invidious as.
lodation to connect the Duchess of Kent with the weavers of
the North. The Duchess of Kent was too well known to
require an advocate in that house.
Mr. PROTHE ROE felt much satisfaction in supporting
the vote. He was sa►isfed that his constituents would be
• well pleased with it.
The House then divided, when there appeared
For the amendment 0
For the grant

Mr. HUNT, being a teller, did not count.
On our admission to the gallery, Mr. WYNNE was die-
emoting a question respecting the Deputpeerjeant abutting
the door, and preventing Members from coming in while
the House was dividing.
A great deal of desultory observations arose on this
subject, which was dropped, without the house coming to
any conclusion respecting the propriety of it. The grant
was then agreed to.
The Chairman progress, and the house resumed.
On the questionretrarttrhe house resolve itself into a com-
mittee on the reform bin,
Lord ELLIOT took that opportunity of asking the noble
Lord (Palmerston) certain questions respecting Belgium.—
He was well acquainted with the Netherlands, and had an
=unity of knowing a great deal respecting her internal
The noble lord then referred to the circumstances
attending elle revolution in Belgium, and the negotiations
which had been carried on between the high powers respect-
ing it. He did not know if the noble lord was aware of the
effect which these circumstances produced in Holland. He
held in his hand extracts from the Belgian newspapers,
describing the discontent which prevailed in Holland, on ac-
count of the proposed demolition of the fortresses. The
question which he would ask of the noble lord was, whether
he had any objection to the production of all papers relating
to the negotiations respecting Belgium.
Lord PALMERSTON could not conveniently lay be
fore Parliament any other papers relating to Belgium than
those which he had already laid on the table. The reason
why the Government thought it expedient to lay the pro-
tocol on the table, was in order to do away with some mis-
apprehension which the Speech of the King of the French
gave rise to.
Lord ALTHORP gave notice that It was his intention
to move on Friday that the House should sit on Saturday.

111,011131 •ILL.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee.
• On the motion that Greenwich stand part of schedule C.
Sir It. PEEL begged to call the attention of the noble
lord to the 25th clause, which enabled Commissioners to
annex adjoining parishes to boroughs where the electors fell
under SOO. He begged to know if it was intended to
empower the Commmissioners to annex adjoining parishes
whether the number of electors in the borough amounted to
SOO or not.

Lotd J. RUSSELL replied, that the 24th clause ex-
plained that the Commissioners were not to interfere except
where the number of electors fell short of 300.
Sir R. PEEL could not consent to the enfranchisetnent
of Greenwich. Although he thought that there were other
places which had a stronger claim than Greenwich, yet for
his part he would not then raise any question upon the
subject. He had however been surprised to hear that Dept-
ford. Greenwich, and Woolwich, were to return repro-
sentatives, for he did not think they could present equally
strong claims as Manchester, Birmingham, and Lads.
Neither did he think it just, even if they could afford it, to
grant so many representatives to the metropolitan districts.
But with respect to Deptford, Greenwich, and Wool-
wich, could it be said that representation was to be
given to those places on account of any trade carried
on there. It certainly, he thought, could not ; for if
these places were to hare members, it would be on the prin.
ciple of population alone, and it sneered from the returns
that the population of Deptford bid diminished, owing to
thi removal-of the docit•yard, while that of Greenwich had
increased. The argument drawn front taxation proved
that the noble lord absolutely feared the extent to which his
measure would go, and he (Sir R. Peel) therefore must ob-
ject to giving members to those places. The right hon.
baronet entered into • detail of the population of the
counties of Middlesex and Surrey, which were a town po-
pulation, and denied that it was fair to give 91 members
to the metropolis and its districts. He denied that the bill
was founded either upon population or taxation, and it would
be perfectly absurd to contend that, as a town increased in
population, it ought to have additional members. Liverpool
'had a population of 200,000, and yet it was to return only
two Members, and he therefore wished to know why the
same principle applied to Liverpool should not be
towards the metropolis. (Hear.) The population the
boroughs allowed to retain their two Members amounted al-
together to 132,000, and yet they were to send 16 members,
while Liverpool, with a large population, was only to have
two. He did not complain of this; for, on the contrary,
be thought that population ought not to be the criterion.
Birmingham, too, contained a population of 170,000, and
still it was not to be entitled to a larger share of representa-
tion than Melton, which had preserved both its members
by an excess of only 10. (Hear.) This being the state
of the case, he could not see how one rule was to be
applied to large towns and another to the metropolis; foe
the metropolis being near the seat of government, on that
account possessed advantages over every other place, and
therefore really did not require the same degree of repre-
sentation as places more remotely situate. Vile would be
obvious by a reference to Alarylebone, within which parish
upwards of 100 members of that house resided. These hon.
members had interests in the parish,and ten of them were ac-
tually members of the select vestry,so that there was no dan.
ger that the rights of the people of Marylebone could suffer
anything for want of representation. He thought it was absurd
to place the metropolitan districts upon a different footing
from the boroughs in schedule B, and then giving to the
metropolis and its vicinity tea new Members, would entirely
destroy that balance which ought to be preserved. 1 he Hon.
Member for Middlesex had been sent into that House because
of his exertions to control the public expenditure, and in-
creasing the representation of the metropolis, would have the
effect of letting into the House a danocratical influence,
which would be opposed to the prerogatives of the Crown ;
and this was the ground upon which he should resist giving
representation to Greenwich.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed
that the right hon. baronet had argued the question fairly,
but still he (Lord Althorp) could not think that any undue
favour had been shown to the metropolis. The only course
that could have been was adopted; for if they bad attempted
to add those districts intended in future to be treated as boa
roughs to those places at present sending members to Parlia-
ment, they would in effect have disfranchised those districts,
and therefore it was they had determined upon allowing
fhese districts representation. He denied that their sending
members to that house would give any undue influence to
the metropolis, and contended, that if they had not adopted
such an arrangement, they would not have acted with a just
impartiality. But with respect to the borough of Greenwich,
it was impossible to deny that both in wealth and population
it was entitled to representation. The noble lord, in conclu-
sion, defended the character damnify gentlemen from the
attack made upon them by the right hon. baronet.
Sir B. PEEL, in explanation, denied that be meant to
say more than that the country gentlemen were less active
than the representatives for the towns. A defending garri-
son was less active than a besieging army.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied,
that his observations applied to • speech of the right hon.
baronet the preceding night. He might have overcharged
his statement, but he could not suffer the right boa. baronet's
observations to go unnoticed.
Mr. H. GURNEY, in a very low cooed voice, contended
that, adding to the number of the metropolitan members
was most impolitic, and was founded upon a most erroneous
rind*.
Colonel WOOD observed that Yorkshire and Middlesex
were similarly circumstanced in point of population, wealth,'
so
and intelligence, and therefore ought to have the same num.
bet of representadves. He that the 40s. copyholders
would be enfrenchised. This, was convinced, would give
general satkfaction : but believing that an undue inter.
arena would be exercised if Greenwich were allowed repre.

seated" be had no hesitation in declaring that be would
vote spin the modish
Mr. C. W. WYJIt *might that the ammemmwe was
giving to the Inelleydile a might la the repessemladis that
it might NM le penams, used eillemded that the Mow of
tows piembilso was Imams tbm dim of .seamy popeinden.
WARRE mai not amsrmis doe aitpolmmins en-
rani by hem. sesamseat that became a nimbi/ Ibred en
the spot wide his eannehooms, be wadi dwoollm• be awn
under their control these V be moiled at a Masao& The
hots. gentleman entered into a vindkatise of the county
msatbsest and mid that the King's government were taking
a just used masenehie course, in giving ',presumed* to the
districts metal the metropolis. He had see of seeing
mamma deinfigegues returned to represent asses places,
for had not =pedalo% peeved that such persons were per-
fectly powerless in that Reuse. (Hear, (hear.)
Mr. Aldennza WOOD rose with reluctance. because he
did not wish to retard the measure. The Honourable Alder-
man entered into a Issdikation of the conduct of these of the
citizens of London who met for the purpose of expres.ing
their disapproval of a vote given by one et their representa-
tives. The very same course bad been adopted by a place
100 miles away, and the realm why a meeting of the Liver,
of London bad not been camped, was because Gentlemen
en'tbat (the Opposition) side of the House had changed their
tactics, and were new seeking to enfranchise places which
they hoped would hereafter send them back again to Parlia-
ment s (laughter.) In conclusion, the Honourable Alder-
man contended that the plan laid down by Government was
a wise and prudent one.
Lord VA LLETORT observed, that the reason the
meeting bad been postponed, as appeared from the Times,
was foe the purpose of holding it in terror's* to that house.
The Noble Lord reed the resolutions published in the Times,
and asked whether, while they were sitting in Committee in
that Huuse, it was just or proper to have Committees abe
sitting out of doors.
Mr. Alderman WOOD denied that they were resolution&
Lord VALLETOKT said they were, and that die) were
so treated by the Time.
Mr. Alderman WAITH MAN was glad to find that the
resolutions deserved such attention as the Noble Lord had
bestowed upon them, but the Noble Lord bad forgotten
to distinguish between the whole and a few members of
the constituent body. He had not meddled in the occur.
emcee that had taken place in the City, but still he was
aware that a very strong feeling did exist, not only in Lon.
doe, but all over the country, that six members of that
house should have taken up the time of the Committee, and
delayed the measure by making as many as 160 speeches.—
The honourable Alderman thought that large and populous
districts were entitled to have their own representatives,
and be should consequently support the motion, that the
district of Greenwich should be allowed to return repre-
sentatives.

Lord YALLETORT, in explanation, denied that be at-
tubed any importance to the resolutions.
Mr. HODGES said that the constituency of the pro-
posed borough would be highly respectable, and sure he
was that the members that would be returned for this bo-
rough would be also highly respectable. He presented •
petition from Greenwich, praying for a restoration of this
borough, and he need therefore hardly say that the proposi-
tion before the House had his most cordial approbation.

Sir C. WETHERELL maid that the hon. Alderman be•
hind him argued one way, and meant to vote another. He
agreed with an hon. gentleman behind him that the man.
ben who would be returned for the borough before the
House would be demagoguery but he disagreed with him
when be said they would be gentlemen demagogues. He
thought they would be the very antipodes of gentlemen.
(A d laugh.) He objected to the number of Item.
bets connected with the metropolis being in-
creased ; because, by the number being increased, a for-
midable body, a metropolitan union, would be constantly
kept up In that house for specific purposes. They had a
proof of this union system in the Committee of the Livery,
which were to sit from week to week, to intimidate Parlia-
ment respecting the course which it should pursue upon this
reform bill. The boer and learned gentleman alluded
to Alderman Thompson 's being obliged to appear before
this committee and explain his conduct, and said, he con-
sidered this sort of surveillance as disgraceful to the city
members. (Cries of hear, hear; and no, no, rejoined by Mr.
Alderman Wood.) He contended that the arguments of
his right honourable Mend (Sir Robert Peel), respecting
the line drawn relative to population having been de.
elated from, had not been at all answered by
the noble lord opposite. If Greenwich was to have new
members, why was not Chelsea to be represented ? Unbffy
Chelsea! (A laugh.) What reason was there for excluding
Chelsea be would be glad to know, if Greenwich were to be
favoured ? If he were an hon. Alderman be would give
this region, although it might not be a very weighty one—
that Greenwich was below New London Bridge and Chelsea
was above it. (A He knew no reason why) Fulham,
Rotherhkbe, or fair (Cries of Oh, oh !) were to
be prevented from sending members to that house, when
Greenwich was to be enabled to do so. _

Capt. BERKELEY said that the late representative foe
Gloucester lost his eat, not for his views upon reform but
because of his not voting upon Sir H. Parnell's modal re-
lairs to the civil list. _

ARer ;fWirottl3---from Mr. Alderman WooD, in expli.
nation,
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON begged to express in the
strongest manner possible, that he had not compromised his
independence by explaining the vote which he bad given
respecting one of the boroughs in schedule A. The Hon.
Alderman said that no member came into that House more

independently than he did. Ha never gave a pledge to his
constituents until the lest election, when a strong feeling
existed in the city of London on the subject of reform.
He then premised that he would do every thing to prevent
the Reform Bill from being Metered away, but he at the
same time reserved to himself the right of supporting or
opposing the views of Ministers respecting particular bo.
roughs. The hon. alderman then adverted to the expiates.
don which he gave relative to Appleby, and said, had he
known the course of conduct that had been adopted by the
bon. and learned gentlemen in the early part of the evening,
when Appleby was under discussion, be should not have
voted as he did.
Sir C. WETHERELL explained, and said that be had
not introduced the subject of the Hon. Alderman's conduct
first; it was first introduced by the Hon. Alderman (Wood)
behind him.

Mr. Aid. WOOD : I, in the most marked and distin-
guished manner, (loud laughter.) and most distinct manner,
contradict the Hon. and Loaned Member. I was not the
first person to introduce the subject adverted to by the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman.
Mr. BARING contended that the efforts to bold a rod in
terrorless over Parliament was very absurd, but still it showed
the feeling by which public bodies would be actuated when
they came into too immediate a connection with the indivi-
duals representing them in that house. (Hear.) If there
was any sacrifice more than another to be deplored, it wm
that of private and individual opinions to those entertained
by public bodies. The bill before the house was introduced
I by his noble friends with a majority at their backs, and no
inroad could be made into it. (Hear.) No bill had ever
been so introduced into that house. It was a bill upon
which the deliberate opinion of Parliament could nut be
given : (hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then alluded to a
Ministerial meeting that had lately been held, in which
Members had been called upon to give up their individual
opinions, for the purpose of arming the passing this Bill.
He adverted to their fixing the qualification at 101, and said
it was a most unwise proceeding : (hear, hear.) He had
but one consolation respecting this Bill, and it was this,
that when the country knew the way in which the Bill was
carried through that House they would be satisfied It
was not a Bill upon which the deliberate opinion of Pulls-
ment had been 'earthed.
Mr. HODHOUSE said that,although he felt it was most
unfair to take up the time of the house in refuting arguments
of hon. members opposite, which had been refuted a thou-
sand times over (bear), he yet could not allow the obsema.
dons of his boa friend to pass unnoticed. Somehow or
other his bon. friend seemed exceedingly anxious to take
Westminster under his immediate protection. His bon.
Mend said that the consdtuencv of Westminster was formed
of 201. householders, and asked why they werebearizets
dtslodp such a constituency by letting in 101.
Now the conadtueocyof Westminster was not formed of SOL
householders, but of persons paying soot and lot, and the
consequence to Westminster would
be, that instead of its
constituency helot increased, It would lose from 1,800
dl,OOO voters. (Hear, hear.) So much for the
those who argued in oppoeition to the bill. (Hesraursearl,
His boo. friend asked, were they to shins the ILlng of
England to ask the peo*ei Wewinineeee who shall MIS
ilinhters (Hem) net doles* of Weem
rather than those who it wee meal to iskinneetem t (last,
heal Herman the ILing of &abed bed as bids=
in the choice et his enhaseee. Beim he seta opp eine a
ligaimers be yes lot obliged se mai Mat sem
boroush this mildew weld Ides Imo Ms asainse. Ho

wee firstOßS to ask, Have you Lord This with you ?? Bare
yen the whole el this bomb, and the half of Thetford ?
Thk wee kind slinging Ms Majesty Se truckle ; this was
maks Ids low tea lime Oldie whibli be had created,
bee se say he *mid sprit Sikhism (lieu )
A nab kid bed 111111011 i the Men bosensh 7stem, by,
saying thek Led Delinikeeke had been for one.
Lard Bs '6l. was a WM aaCeicat laugh), a most
team pnw. and one wise es a code of bad
morality, Sad says on lalstreyonisekted awake the youth
of this country as peat sepsis as be nu himself. He was
astonished that any peens so shined should dere to corn.
'neat upon the modest ot mreseave ef the City of L 0
don. who he' pledged limit to waste ashen yids thew.
tbnents of hiseemninesen. It wadies sub *taunt the man.
ben on his siiethe heves with being pledged to the reform bill.
What did thee& hon. 'member Ise llnnworth do when he
felt it Meant, to act in opposition to the opinions of his
constituents? Why. he did what a man of honour would
do, be relinquished the trust confided to him. This was a
proof of his real opinion of the duty of a repress:taxis .
The question was one that should be decided by the Con:.
mons of England. If the peat question solely appertained
to the Commons of &gland, their labours would be in
vain, if it was to be decided in another place. If it was to
be so decided, be advised the members of the other house to
consider well the question, and the opinions of the country
upon It. The opponents of the measure spoke as nomi-
nees. He apologised for the time he bad occupied, and
thanked the committee for the indulgence they had shewn
him ; he expressed his determination to support the measure.
Mr. OOULBURN said that he had always listened to
the hon. member for Westminster with attention, and the
only deduction he could draw from his speech, was that be
(Mr. G.) would be perfectly justified in the vote he intended
to give upon the question. He felt astonished at the obser.
vations of the bon. member, and at the warning he gave to
the other House of Parliament. (Hear, bear.)
Mr. HONK/USE said, in explanation, that he had only
said that he trusted that their lordships would concur in a
measure that was sanctioned by the general feeling of the
country.
Mr. OOULBURN continued: the hon. member had
said that their lordships' opinion would he overborne by
the people. (Hear, hear.) He trusted that the other House
would exercise their right of discussing this measure, which
made such an encroachment upon the constitution ; and that
they would not be intimidated by the warning of an Hon.
Member, the representative of a metropolitan district.
(Cheers.) The speech of the Hon. Member presented the
best argument against those districts being enfranchised.
The principles which were applied to the disfranchisement
of schedule B. were now used in justifying the enfranehis:-
meat: of those districts. (Hear.) He concluded by cc-
pressing his determination to resist the motion, and rote
for the amendment.

Mr. MACAULRY was glad to find that the Right Hon.
Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had changed his opinions upon this
question, and had stated his ground of resistance to the ex.
tension of the franchise to Greenwich—that it would become
a nomination borough in the hands of Government. He
trusted that the result would prove the contrary. If the
principle was once admitted, it could not be denied that the
great towns adjoining London should be represented. He
considered that those districts were as well entitled to be
enfranchised as Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds....
He considered the danger would be diminished by giving
the people a legal voice.—(Hear.) The wealth and know-
ledge of the country have been excluded from a share of
power by the present system, and the Bill before the Commit-
tee was intended to remedy the evil complained of. He
believed that the proposal of the Right Honourable Baronet
would excite feelings of disgust in the minds of the country,
and be would vote against the amendment: (hear, hear.)
Mr. PRAED argued at considerable length against the
policy of granting Members to the metropolitan districts,
and concluded amidst cries of question, question ! He ex-
pressed his belief that such an extension of enfranchisement
would prove a source of evil to the country, and create too
much power in the metropolis, which be was decidedly ed.
verse to. He would vote for the amendment.
Lord J. RUSSELL explained that what he bad esid,was
not that ministers should keep their seats after a dissolution
of Parliament, but that it might be convenient for persons
accepting office in the middle of a session not to vacate
their seats.
Mr. HUNT thought that thew would be no difficulty
for minister, to get seats, for there were forty boroughs
in schedule B, which would be nearly as doss as nominee
boroughs.
Idr. CHOKER observed that Greenwich could bear no
comparison in riches, the arts, or any other qualification, to
Westminster, yet it was prot=l to put it on an equality
with k by giving it two mom
The House then divided, when there appeared—
• For the motion • • ... 295

Against it ...

.. 188

Majority for Ministers —. 107
The motion that Greenwich stand part of schedule C was
then agreed to.
Sheffield and Sunderland were then allowed to stand pans
of schedule C.

On the motion that Devonport stand part of schedule C.
Mr. CROW objected to it, because Portsmouth was
to experience a contrary treatment. He wished to know
why this distinction was made ?
Lord J. RUSSELL replied, that Porten was part of the
borough of Portsmouth. but Devonport was entirely a distinct
town from Plymouth, and contained a large population.
Lord A LTHORP aside few words to the same effect.
Mr. CROKER having seated his objections, would not
trouble the house by a divides.
Sir J. WDONNRLL obawved, that the general feeling
of the inhabitants of Peetimath was la favour of this mss•
sure. They did not esesplein of being liaised to two mein bas
After seem &who y sheervadenedle =edge was agreed to.
Lord MILTON teak that Igpsitsafty of stating the
mode in which he intended se ktersdato his motion, respect-
ing the towns In schedule A When schedule C was dis.
posed of, he would take some borough In schedule D, and
move that it be placed in schedule C—that is, that it bare
two members. -

-- -.--
Tbe Camaxmr then reported progress. and the house
resumed.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, sad the
house adjourned at Half-past One &Clock.
a

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE.
FAR HCE.
CHANGE OF MINISTRY.
PARIS, Tuesday Evening.—Up to four o'clock
this day nothing has been finally determined re-
specting the change of Ministry consequent upon
the vote of yesterday, but the retirement of M.
Casimir Perier. He complains of perfidy among
certain classes of his promised supporters in the
Chamber of Deputies, who, when they came to act
by secret ballot, deserted him, and be in conse-
quence instantly determined yesterday evening to
tender his resignation to the King. All the other
Ministers, with the exception of Marshal Soult,
came to the same determination, but his Majesty
pressed a re-consideration of this step. At 12
o'clock this day, the Council assembled at the
Palais Royal, when the resignation of M. Casimir
Perier being persevered in, the King, attended by
all the Ministers except he Minister of Justice,
proceeded to canvass the formation of a new
Ministry, by the advice of the Council.
Count Mole, the friend of Prince Talleyrand, is
charged by the King to make the new administra-
tion this night, be being to be President of the
Council and Minister for Foreign Affairs. He
wishes to keep Marshal Soult (who, in fact, is
anxious to stay) for War, and Admiral de Rigny
for Marine.
Count Mole has offered this evening the Finance
to M. Humana, the Ministry of Justice to
Beranger, and Vastismenil for the Interior.
An ultra combination has been formed out of
doors, and a list is in circulation from Odillon
BarrOt, General Lamarque' &c. At three o'clock
*l. latter attempt was abandoned for the moment.
=Tipsily, it is said, at the persuasion of M.

Count Montalivet will not remain in office ; he
has taken leave of his bureau, and announced that
he will only remain in the King's household.
It is amazingly difficult to anticipate the effect

on the public mind of any administration formed
under the auspices of Count Mole. The funds
have declined considerably.
ANOTHER ACCOUNT, PARIS, AUG. 2.—The
actual defeat of the Ministers in the Chamber of
Deputies yesterday will have prepared you for the
resignation of M. Casimir Perier, and (he dissolu-,
:ion of his Ministry.
The divisions of yesterday left .no doubt on the
step which M. Perier would take. He had not
,lisguised his sentiments. He made the election
of a President of the Chamber of Deputies the
!est by which to ascertain the principles and cha-
actor of the new Chamber, and he did not dis-
‘ocible his determination to retire in cue of an
Jalavourable issue of the experiment. He is be-
lead to have tendered his resignation immediately
ifter the scrutiny, which ended in the election of
31. Girod de l'Ain.
At six o'clock yesterday evening he tendered his
:eiignation by letter. He has not been (I am as-
mired) at the Palais Royal since, although re-
peatedly sent for by his colleagues to attend the
Council, which sat until midnight under the presi-
dency of the King.
It was reported this forenoon that, notwithstand-
ing M. Perier had retired, and that although most
of his colleagues were prepared to follow him, he
clung to the hope of erecting himself into " a power
behind the throne," and to have recommended that
Baron Mole should be president of the new Mi-
niitry, and that MM. Merilhou and Humana should
!inn part of it. I have, however, this moment
received from one of the highest quarters the fob-
:es lee list of the new Ministry :
MM. Soult, President of the Council and Mi-
Lister of War.

Mot.bourg, Minister for Foreign Affairs
D'Argout, Minister of the Interior and Commerce
De Rigny. Minister of Marine
Hamann, Minister of Finance
Vatemesnil,Minister of Justice

Arago, Minister of Public Instruction.
From the foregoing, on which I am inclined to
rely, it will be perceived that there is as yet no dis-
position at the Palais Royal to change measures,
with the partial change of men. A ministry composed
A the above materials could not exist for a week.
I hare heard other names mentioned (those of
Marshal Clause', MM. Bignon, Berenger, &c.)
but with the single exception of Clause' there would
appear in the new Cabinet a distinction without a
difference. Up to the present moment, to keep the
cote gauche entirely out of view, seems the policy
of the Palais Royal, for the name of no individual
of what may be termed the Liberal party is men-
tioned. A ministry of a milk-and-water quality
may be dressed up, but it would not be able to
maintain itself in power.
The circumstances, which led to these events,
so interesting to all Europe, were the following :
CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES, Auo. I.
The Chamber met at one o'clock, under the Pre-
.idency of senior Member Count Duchatel, and,
after the verification of the powers of several De-
puties, whose admission had been adjourned at the
list meeting, they proceeded to the election of their
President.

The number of voters present was 355; the ma-
jority required 178. M. Girod de I'Ain, the Mi-
nisterial candidate, obtained 171 votes ; M. Lafitte,
the Opposition candidate, 168 ; M. Berenger, 8 ;
M. Dupont de I'Eure, 2 ; M. O'Dillon Barrot, 1 ;
M. de Mosbourg, 1; and three tickets were de-
clared null. None of the candidates having ob-
tained the absolute majority, the Chamber proceeded
to a ballot between MM. Girod de 1 and
Lafitto.

After this operation, which lasted upwards of an
hour, the President announced that there was an
irregularity in the poll ; that there only 358 voters
present, and that 359 votes were found in the urn.
The President then inquired should the ballot be
annulled ?

The Chamber, on being consulted, decided that
the ballot should stand good in case the majority
was more than one vote.

The President then published the result of the
election. The number of voters was 358 ; and the
majority required, 180. M. Girod de l'Ain having
obtained 181 suffrages; M. Wile, 176; M. Du-
pont de l'Eure, 1; M. Girod de l'Ain was pro-
claimed President of the Chamber.

The election of the remaining two Vice-Presi-
dents of the Chamber of Deputies came on this day
at the Chamber of Deputies. By the subjoined
list you will perceive that the ex-ministerial Candi-
date, M. Dupin, has been elected one of them. M.
Salverte, an ultra-liberal candidate, was next on
the list, but not having the " absolute majority"
accessary, a new ballot is at this moment taking
place, which will end most likely in the return of i
11. Salverte.

i)upin ...
A. Deleuett..

... 12
4