Star.
London, England, 1825-03-05 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. IROBSIMON, from the Exchequer, appeared at the Bar with
an account of Fines, &c.
Lord MOUNICHARLES took the Oaths as Member for Donegal.
Leave was given to bring in a Bill for erecting a new Corn Es-
ch.inge in the City of London.
Lord LOWTHER proposed that the Teesdale Roadway Bill
should be read a second time.

Mr. Alderman THOMPSON presented a Mtition from the
Citizens of London, in favour of the above Rail Road Bill. Out
of 110 landed proprietors, there were but l>f dissentients.
Mr. DAVENPWLT objected to the bill. He should never
consent to have Gentlemen's grounds cut up by such infernal ma-
chines as were employed on Rail Roads.
Mc. L:1 NIB! ON should say a few v:ords on the
motion. lle put himberf on the justice rf the Home for
an attentive bearing. The public would not be bene-
titted in the same degree as private indi4idtrals must be
injured by the propo,e I measure. Tne lion. Member
proceeded to chew that the coal, which it was intemled
to bring to Lrendon by this Bill, was of irferior
Mt. Alderman WOOD was in faVour oldie Bill, and
wished at least that the Citizens of London might have
a trial of thecuals pr (*posed to he brought to market.
After a few words from Mr. PLUMER, the Houee divided.
The numbers on the tihmon were—

For the *Amid readiug
Aping is
Majority . .
The 13ill usta Meet read a •ecoau time.

6
. . 55

L7s4:-4-- 7A:

. -10

.rr.

Mr. Alderman THOMPSON presenter's Petitice from London.
in.favour of the Tees Rail Way.—Ordered toile on the table.
Mr. FLEbIING presented a Petition from Southampton against
the Assessed Taxes.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a Petition from Bisbopsgate
Ward, against the House and Window Tax ; and aximilar Petition
from Cripplegate Ward.—Ordered to be printed.
ARMY ESTIMATES.
Lord PALMERSTON moved that the House should go into a
Committee on the Army Estimates.
The SPEAKER having left the Chair,
Lord PALMERSTON proceeded to lay befcire the
Committee a statement of the military expenses for the
year. An increase of the military expenses of the pre-
sent year would be rendered necessary in consequence
of an intended addition of 1.5,000 men to the existing
force of the country. The amount of the actual aug-
mentation would, however, be but 10,000 men (Officers
included) as the Veteran 'Battalions would be reduced ;
and of the force to be raised, 5819 were for the East In-
dies. The additional expense for the augmentation would
come to £229,000. There would be no augmentation
of the Staff. The expenses of the public Military De-
partments had been expected to allow a reduction, but
the transfer of the military accounts for Ireland had
rendered an additional number of Clerks necessary in
his Lordship's Office. The union of the Irish with the
English department caused much trouble at its first
introduction; the expenses of this additional labour
compelled his Lordship to call for about 10001. for
the payment of an additional' number of clerks. How-
ever, as they were required merely for a temporary
purpose, they would not have any claim to allow-
ances on their retiring. The estimate for the Military
College was increased by 17001. In the item of Gene-
ral Officers, these was a diminution of 17,0001. The
estimate of the charge of full-pay for reduced or retired
Officers was also less than that of last year ; so was the
estimate fur half-pay and military allowances to the
same class of Officers. The charges of the pensioners
of Chelsea College had increased, as also those of the
Military Asylum, the allowances on the Compassionate
List, Superannuation Allowances, and Pensions to Offi-
cers' Widows. The estimate of the chorge of three
Royal Veteran Battalions was less than that of the pre-
ceding year. He would then proceed to state the
grounds on which the augmentation of force had been
considered necessary. The Noble Lord then eloquently
alluded to the general prosperity and happiness and
glory of the country, and was happy to find that he-
land at present was in a state of calm. and contentment,
and increasing prosperity. Ireland had been lest for-
tunate than most countries for some period, but he was
glad to see a happy dawn appearing, and some rays of
brighter omen breaking upon that fine island. Ile trusted
that the transactions of the other evening, begun so au-
spiciously, and that held out such glorious hopes to that
country, would be finally triumphant—(Loud cheers)
and he was sure its success would for ever secure the
peace, the prosperity, and the tranquillity of Ireland—
(Cheers). He was glad there were more cheerful pros-
pects for Ireland; and he would say, when these esti-
mates were framed they had no reference to that coun-
try—and the augmentation required had nothing to do
with Ireland, nor was it ever intended or thought that
it should. The causes of the augmentation were com-
pletely external, and it was required by our colonial
establishments. They had more Colonies, settlements,
and extensive foreign pos%essions than any nation in the
world. There was not a region, from the most northern
parts of America to the most distant parts of Asia,
' where British enterprise had not found a field for its ex-
ertions—either in the extension of its commerce, or the
exercise and glory of its arms; therefore, he called for
the amount of troops for the protection of those Colo-
' vies and their interests. He thought it was essential
that the House should grant it, for the augmentation
was indispensable. It was necessary to send reiuf ate•
nsents, and the present state of the army was such, that
it was impossible to send a reinforcement, without strip-
: ping other Garrisons or Colonies; When the Burmese
• war broke out, they had no other means of sending a
reinforcement, but stopping five Regiments under or-
' ders for embarkation for Europe, and which were
' on foreign service for many years—(Hear).—He
thought he had proved an augmentation necessary,'
' and there were three modes of making it ; the first was,
' by adding so many rank and file to each company ;1
the second was, by raising new regiments ; and the
third was, by adding companies to the existing regi-
ments. The first would be the cheapest, because it
would be without the expense ofOfficers; but there would
' be no disposable reserve for relief. Having the addi-
' tional regiments would answer the latter purpose,
but that mode would be expensive from the sup-
port of Officers and the Staff. The adding of comps-
' niess-therefore, had the advantages of comparative cheap-
ness, and of giving relief by a body of reserve. The
regiments at present consisted of eight companies.,
He proposed to add two, thus making ten. He would
divide them into two portions—two battalions; six
companies of these would be on a higher scale, and
contain 560 mea ; these would be the service battalion.
The other four companies were intended for the reserve, 1,
and would amount to 224 men. When a Regiment was
' ordered on foreign service, only the service battalion
went abroad; the reserve remained at hon.e, and did
duty in the depots and garrisons, and in recruiting.
Thus the garrisons on foreign stations would be pro-
' tected, and would be rendered more effective. A Regi-
ment for a long time on a foreign station was much
affected by the climate. It an Officer suffered in his
health, and required leave of absence, it often happened
that he was not at the expiration able to rejoin his Regi-
ment ; thus he caused great inconvenience, by imposing
severe and additional duties on other Officers—Officers
from this cause were compelled to go on half-pay, or i
seek at a great loss for exchange with others. This 1
. arrangement would remove all these disadvantage—
for if an Officer was forced to come home from ill
I health, he might remain in the depot, and another ft esh
and healthy Officer sent out in his place; and thus he
would be saved from all the personal disadvantages of
exchange. The invalid also who was sent home would
' he employed in the depot ; and another man, fresh and
effective, sent to the service battalion. This arrange-
trent, be thought, possessed many advantages; and
I,e believed, if unhappily the present state of the
country was changed, and they looked to it with a
, view to war, it would be a very effective means of
quikcly making a large augmentation. Part of his
arrangement was to disband the Veteran Battalions.
He thought this a matter of right. He wished these
, brave old men to enjoy their pensions for the rest
of their lives; and he knew, if it was necessary
again to call them to duty, they would with the
iliost cheerful alacrity obey the order. Ile begged dis-
tinctly to state to the House, that his asking this aug-
mentation from it had no reference to foreign nations.
Tire same happy relations existed between tins country
and the nations on the Continent. This country, from


'"

its valour, and bravery, and mighty successes in war,
and by its firm and liberal and wise policy in peace,
had raised itself to a pitch of wealth and greatness un-
p a rda ll
yetel est,
ea
didn d snt
oo
to d
looka botvoe
sealnf.ya
go
gt I
ran
earn
trii
iastei
mo nation
toltt: eat
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toa 7.
the general welfare and universal happiness of main-
kind—(Hear, hear). Then this great nation should take
care that every part of it was protected, and that its
settlements and Colonies were in a state of safety and
prosperity ; they ought to regulate their conduit on
these principles. He therefote requested the augmen-
tation from the Committee; it was not too much, if
they looked to the protection of their Colonies—to the
extent of their territories, and to the honour and glory of the Em-
pire—(Cheers).—After iord Palmerston sat down, the motion was
read—" That no more than 15,000 (and we believe 818 men) be
granted to the King for the augmentation of his Military Est,A-
bli.hment."
Colonel DAVIES said, during last year an iocrease
had been made in the Army to the amount of 5000
men, and now it was proposed to make a further in-
crease of 16,000 men, making in all 21,000 men as
the increase of our peace etablishment. This he would
object to as a permanent eitablishment, but at present
he deemed it advisable to give his vote for the aug-
mentation, lest a war should ensue upon the liberality of
our principles. The Colonial garrisons should be re-
lieved, but he was of opinion they were all too large.
Mr. HOBHOUSE was disappointed at the total ab-
sence of any reasons for the augmentation in the army.
It was a little too much f ir the Noble Lord to say, that
the increase was not called for by the nature of oar re-
lations with other Powers, when one of out allies was at
the mercy of another ; when in fact Spain was not
merely at the mercy, but in the actual occupancy of
France. With respect to the Burmese war, now that it
had been entered into, prudently or otherwise, it mat-
tered not, he was of opinion that if twenty-five or thirty
thousand men were requisite, they should be sent out;
but wiry not send them from those u hich wet e now at
home, and which were unnecessary to maintain the tran-
quillity of Great Britain?
Sr R. WILSON felt no constitutional objection to
the proposed augmentation in the present instance. He
had visited the Garrison of Gibraltar wi:h the greatest
satisfaction at the manner in which the duty was per-
formed as far as it could be done by a garrison ineffi-
cient for its proper defence. At that time there were
French frigates in the Bay, arid a large French force in
the neighbourhood; and he could assure the House
that the garrison was not sufficient for the performance
of the duties. lie willingly gave his need of praise to
the Government for their recognition of the independ-
ence of the South American States, and he them efore thought that
the increase asked for should be conceded ; and io giving his vote
for the augmentation. he thought he obliged the Government to par-
sue the same line of conduct which hail in this instance met with
the approbation of the country.
Mr. Secretary PEEL- said, it was unfair to accuse
the House of negligence in not attending the debates
of that evening, when, in fact, all were acquainted with
the necessity of the proposed augmentation, and even
the Hon. Gentlemen who had spoken on the other
side had borne testimony themselves to the necessity of
the proposed increase. With respect to the quetions
proposed by the Hon. Member for Westminster, he
thought they were foreign to the measure before the
House, and in the absence of hi; Right Honourable
Friend Mr. Canning, he thought it could neither be
considered indecorous to that Right Honourable Mem-
ber nor to the House if he declined giving any answer
to the questions.
Mr. CALCR AFT, upon reviewing the state of Eu-
rope, was firmly of opinion, that the augmentation
was not only necessary, but rather too small for the
present exigencies of the country.
Mr. BERNAL was of opinion, that as long as we
have colonies we must have soldiers to protect them,
and it was extremely desirable that our Colonial garri-
sons should be kept in the most efficient state—he
should therefore vote for the proposed augmentation.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON could not give a vote for
one shilling, while the country was indebted to the
amount of 800,000,0001. If he thought Ministers re-
quired any assistance to follow up the liberal policy
adopted towards South America, if it were the last
shilling in the Treasury, he would vote it to them,
and satisfactorily account for such conduct.
Sir J. HOPE defended the manner in which it was
proposed to make the augmentation.
General GASCOYNE objected to the proposed plan
of making the augmentation.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD concurred in the vote re.
quited ; as it was necessary to put our garrisons in a
proper state of defence, the details might safely be re-
ferred to those, who from their pursuits were best qua-
lified to judge of them. He understood. that our
fortresses were inadequately garrisoned; and no consti-
tutional question was involved in the-vote.
Lord PALMERSTON said, that there would be a
double advantage from the mode of relief proposed.
Sir R. WILSON thought the wounded Officers
should be put on the same footing as the hail-pay
Officers, and be paid quarterly.
Lord PALMERSTON would communicate the sug-
gestion to the Paymaster-General of the Forces.
Sir C. LONG had no reluctance on his part to accede
to the suggestion.
Mr. J. SMITH had to complain of the parsimony of
Government in depriving wounded Officers of their
pensions. Those Officers had understood that their
pensions were for their lives, and not during the pleasure of the
Crown, as there had been no limitation in the original grant.
Mr. TREMAYNE knew many cases of great hard-
ship Irani the uitbdrawing of pensions. In one case,
the journey of an Officer to London. bad cost bins half his income.

After a few observations from Lord l'Af.assitsvori, and in expla-
nation from Mr. Joys: SMITH, the Noble Lord moved the follow-
ing Resolutions

For the Pap of the Land Forces of his Majesty
up to the 24th March . . £476,024 7 0
The same service and period for Ireland • 185,291 13 0
The Charge of the Land Forces of Great Britain
from the 24th March to the 24th December,
inclusive . . . 1,755,411 0 0
The same service for Ireland • . 646,243 18 0 ,
For the Officers of the Staff, exchi4ve of India 93,270 17 0
The same fur Ireland . . 24,581 0 0
For Public Departments of the Army . 116,470 13 0
For Medicine and Officers of that Department 13,270 14 0
The same for Ireland . • 5,188 17 0
Fur the Volunteer Service of Great Britain, IB2S 128,000 0 0
For the same service in Ireland . 19,305 12 0
For Regiments in India . . 785,871 8 0
Recruiting in India ' . . 27.3:38 5 5
Fur the Royal Military College . 13,11,9 9 0
Pay of General Officers nut being Culunels 151,52:1 16 0
For Garrisons in England • . 29,832 6 10
For the same service in Ireland . . 5,491 0. 0
Full Pay for Retired Officers . . 131.000 0 0
Half-pay and Military Allowances . 800,048 2 6
Foreign Half-pay . • 109 710 0 0
In Pensioners of Chelsea awl Kilmainham . 45,079 0 0
Out-Pensioners, Chelsea . . 1,240,913** 911
Royal Military Asylum • . 24,834 14 0
Widows* Pensions . . . 135,349 16 0
Compassionate List . . 186,608 13 u