Star.
London, England, 1812-04-25 00:00:00

CAPTURE OF RADAj3T..

The Earl of LIVERPOOL gave notice, that ou
Monday he should move the Thanks of the Howe
to the Earl of Wellington and to the army engaged
in the siege and capture of Badajoi, and moved tnat
the Lords he summoned for that &I.—Ordered.
A short conversation ensued between the Marquis
of I.axsoownr., the Duke of NottroLK, and the EA.
of LIVk:ILPOOL and DAnNtr.t, in consequence of the,
first mentioned Peer observing that an important Bill
had recently passed through thai House (the Peni.
tertiary Houses), without due attention being paid
to it. This led to no proceeding, as no motion was
proposed.
Some further documents illustrative of the s*eft.
of the Orders in Council. as the copies of folatsofies.
twin licences, &c. were, on the moti.m . f the Earl oF
LA UM:DALE, ordered to be laid before the Home.

The hfaiquis of DOUGLAS ['relented petitiens
from the City and Port of Glaerw, in Scotland, ens
from the Chamber of Coanni•nee, estabhsbed in 11'4
City, and another from certain ship fmr.cfs,
(titers, &c. pr.iying for a participation 1.1 the tiadeto
India ; which being Leads were ordered to lk Oat:*
Table.

PEAV:NTRY Of IRELAND.
The Ordcr of the Day upon which there Lordships
were sum Monet!, bt ng read,
Lord STik N rose to move the second read-
ing of his Bill—For Bettering the c,iidit;on of the
Peasantry and Tenantry of Great Britain and hr.
land. He prefaced the motion with a Variety of
scrvations, eN p innat ory of the grounds, and enflic:ag
the arguments he had advanced in the tirit
i as the causes of his introducing, and the tem= fur
inducing their Lordships to agree to the Bill, as as
effectual remedy for a very great and sharked
grievance. During a part of his speech, the Nubia
Earl produced much risibility, by his remarks en a
letter which he read, as part of his former speech,
being the sentiments of a great lawyer on the subject,
in a letter to another person on the subject. sad etch
contained opinions in favour of what he was ak.eat
to advance. The name of the great lawyer who
wrote it he then declined stating, but he nor de-
r elated it •to be the letter of a Noble mud Learned
Lord opposite ( Redesdale). After expatiating oa
' the injustice of tif:;..ring the law to remain as at pre-
sent, through which- the occupying tenantry were iO
much oppressed in Ireland, and referring to a mat
on the subject by the Hon. Colonel Dillon, some
ciamnunications from the Noble Viscount, his father.
and the excellent pamphlet of Counsellor O'Dedy m
thesubject, in illustration of his positions, the Noble
Earl moved, that the Bill be now read a second timei
Lord REDESDALE, aver censuring the conduct
Of the person who communicated, for such a purrest,
a letter confidentially written, and contending la
nothing he had advanced in the former dtscussioas
clashed with the principles and positions in that
letter, said, he should not oppose the motion, but,
for his part, suffer the Bill to go into a Committee,
where he would be happy to contribute, if at all le-
gally practicable, any way to alleviate the evils com-
plained of ; but the Bill as it now stood, instead of
alleviating, would, he thought, go to aggravate those
' evils.
The LORD CHANCELLOR shortly expressed
his coincidence in the opinions held by Ins Noble
and Learned Friend, and observed their Lordships
should consider well before they agreed to a measure_
which went to overturn a great part of the law of
landlord and tenant, in England, Scotland, and Ire-
land. Time should be allowed for the purpose of
further enquiry and consideration of the subject.
Lord STANHOPE said, he had made Ministers
knock under on the Gold Coin Bill, and he would
teach them the same trick now. As for the Nob!
Lord ( Redesdale) he had quitted the House, irons
knowing well that he should trim him. That Nall'
and Learned Lord knew well enough that be was too
generous to beat any man in his absence ; but he must
yet know, that the correction which might be dtigd'
would not be remitted!—(4tlau;h.)
The Earl of LIVERPOOL seemed much impres-
sed with what had fallen from the Noble and Ler;
ed Lords on the subject, ar,l under such impsoan-,.
proposed to drier the Committee on the 10 until
that day two months.
Lord STANHOPE—" Does the Noble Lordtrfiteh
to throw out. Bill ? Does he mean six months:_
r %Veil, one month"—from Lord bran:Boo-
- Well, one month then ; that's fair."—(Ako•l
yisa
The Bills upon the table were then resPactivel ae*
warded—and their Lordships adjourned mil h-1'

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The Irish Grain Distillation IPro6ibitieo Bill, And
Pipe-clay MU, were brought in. and read a lust Opus 40"."--
al to be read a second time on Monday we=
A Person from the Odes of Chief secrstery of 9110
land, Presented an account of the number ol Bath a "v."
Notes
The Commutes old to
ea the Beet& Leal B 0. ge
consideration of the Lords' Message. respicsirt r7b--.14
Eon of the Fast Judie Company. were poizPoncll "".
Oat. tbe
Lord A. lIAMI LION presented a petition from
chants of Glasgow, aguksi Orders in Council. ~to,
Mr. HOUSTON presented a counter pewees kW u•
den and MurlfactUrerS of the sane
After a few swords front Mr. Blial:01 AM, she Clograllog
0( die Escoagy as, Lord A. Rom' ros , Mr. HOMO

General Tatiit . jtlrtetittdas wets ordered to *lie en the
table.
The CHANCELLOR of. the EXCHEQUER gave notice,
lima be would move for a Vote of Thanks to the F.arl of Wel-
lington, and the Gallant Army who bail taken Badajqz by storm,
03 Monday neat, (The seei,e veal felholvedly lea Cheer: )
CATHOLIC QUESTION.
btitArt.: )
The motion for a Committee to inquire into
state of the. Trish Catholics having been put from the
Chair ;
Sir WILLIAM SCOTT commenced with vindi-
cating the conduct of the illustrious University which
la bad the honohr to represent (Oxford) froth some
aspersions which were thrown out on the former night.
in contradiction to these assertions he would state,
that there was no community of Men more distin-
guished for their attachment to the Constitution,--
more unshaken in their fidelity to the throne, and
more firm in their resistance to the demands of legal
tyranny. They had ever been, a 1 the
id forward asset.-

r • rI• . •7 • ' -
pended on advantai
ges• and disacNantigesi on be-
nefits and danger. The arguments against the clairls
of the Catholics might be reduced to three classes—
first, the danger to be apprehended • from granting
them—secondly, the constitutional objections—and,
thirdly, the doubt which was entertained of their ef-
ficacy, in case they should be granted. The clian;;es
which had Of late years taken place in the world liad
rendered the danger •considerable. There were no
longer any apprehensions from the Pretender, &c.
and as to the doubt which some persons enteitained
of their oaths, the proposal of an oath as a protection
against their alleged disregard of them was rather a
clumsy expedient. The opinions of the Protestants
of Ireland were now on the table of the House, and
the advancement of the Catholics in power, wealth,
and consequence, rendered their case still more wor-
thy of consideration. One argument had been re-
sorted to on a former occasion which made a great
impression on his mind, and that was the assertion
that the Union was a bar to the measure. For the
-
if '•he

. ,
111e:r4f, cr"gr"cf rieland looked up, in
I all things,. to tie Pope.- The Pope was under the
entire controul of Bonaparte,. and he must of course
haste a corstiouT, to a certain extent, over the Catho-
lics, who were the slaves of their 'priests. Here we
heard continual professions of liberty sent forth by,
the Catholics ; and yet, strange as it may appear,
these people, who pretended that they detested ty-
ranny s.) much, submitted without ccraplaint to the
I dcgrading tyranny ey.eriised over them by their
Priests, who looked up to no Patriarch in their
own conrary, but to the miserable miscreants who
had, at different times, filled the Papal Throne.—
. A.4reat (lei' if stress had been laid on the danger
arising to the Empire, if the concessions in question
were not granted ; what was this hut an argument
of intimid'ation ? And was this Government to be
intimidated ? But suppose all these concessions were
granted, would the Catholics then be satisfied ? No.
They must then have an Ecclesiastical Establish-
ment. Tne Catholic Clergy would never be satisfied
ill t• -.h

tors of civil liberty ante persona independence.— 1 propriety of this position he would refer them to the till such Establishment was formed ; nor would they
With respect to their Petition on the subject before the i whole history of the transaction, to the 4th Article I be then satisfied, until they rooted the Protestant
House, it was voted by a majorityof four to one, and iof the Union, and to the expectations which were i Establishment entirely away. The next step would
the whole number of persons who voted against it excited, and by means of which additional facility was be, a Catholic Party in Parliament ; and the Pro-
was but /4.. It was as fair a representation of the given to the passing of the measure. Under such ! testant Aristocracy, who were now such warm ad.
sentiments of that whole body as he believed it was . circumstances, to turn round and say, the union was I vocates for Catholic Claims, would soon lose all
of the educated part of the country in general. Upon a bar to concession, was impolitic, imprudent, unge- their importance. He would have nn objection to
the question immediately before them, he should not nerous, and unjust. He was told by some that the sit in Parliament with any Gentleman, were he to
trouble them at any length ; he could not help con- h mass of the population was indifferent to it, and from I pray ten times a day to the Virgin Mary, and to
sidering it as one which was reticulated only to excite I others he heard the reverse ; but when reasoning for 1 every Saint in the Calendar, provided he abjured his
those passions which must disturb the public tran- himself, he saw the marked distinction in force ; he 1 allegiance to the Pope ;—he meant a foreign Pope.
quillity, and to hazard the calamity of setting fire to could not believe that they had not a wish to partici- —Let the Catholics have a Pope in Ireland, at
;the country. There was no probability of their coming pate in the rights and privileges of the constitution. Ballyshannon, or any othe• place in the island, if
this year to a different determination froM that to —He then entered into a de.ail of all the exclusions they chose ;—but as long as they gave allegiance
which they had come in any of the preceding years, under which they laboured in the Army and Navy to an Italian, 'Jr a Frenchman, he would never
yet they were told every year that must be done.— and at the Bar, and maintair.ed that they ought to give them any political power in the State. For
The constant answer of the Legislature to such go into a Committee. Before they could decide what these reasons he would oppose the motion for a
threats, was that it should not be done, so that the securities would be necessary, they should have the Committee.
effect of those repeated applications was to keep up a information of those who were most conversant with Mr. BROUGHAM,. in rising for. the purpose of
continual warfare between the Legislature and the the tenets of the religion, which could only be done replying to an Hoio,urable and Learned Baronet
Petitioners. It had been said that there was no cla- in a Committee of the whole House. He wished to (Sir W. Scott), felt much anxiety, when he remem.
triour ; but though there was no clamour, there might see the country as powerial as possible, and for hared that he was fallowing the eloquent opener of
be strong sensation, and he was confident there was. that purpose he would recommend that the Church the discussion (Mr. Grattan), who had said all that
—But had the Petitioners brought the question any should throw open wider doors of toleration. They man could say in favour of the motion. He had the
nearer to an adjustment than in former instances ? might depend, that by the present system they did two most zealous opposers (Dr. Duigenan and Sir
Had they offered those tecurities which might have not make one praselyte from the Roman Catholic re- W. Scott) of the Catholic cause, but he had in vain
a tendency to allay the apprehensions entertained by ligion—they might make' a chasm in the mind, looked for any thing like solid opposition. Decia- I
some? Or had they not, on the contrary, refused all which they could not fill up as they pleased—they mation on visionary dangers, and unjust insinuations 1
securities, even those which they were willing to have might destroy those materials, of which they might against the Catholics, formed the burden ot all they
conceded before ? So far from granting any security, have constituted a tower of strength ; but they could had said. The insinuation thrown out against the
they accompanied their claims with an explicit decla- accomplish nothing for the good of society by perse- Catholics—that when they got possession of political
ration, that their Church should have a marked pub- vering in so erroneous a course. With respect to the power they would not stop there, but would imme-
lic encouragement.; must it not be apprehended, allusion to the last Administration, all they did was diately proceed to the overthrow of the Protestant
that this request Must mean, in other words, a snarl:- to keep off the question, in consequence of the preju- Church—was unjust and ungenerous in the extreme.
ed public discouragement to the established religion dices known to exist against it ; and he was one of And this insinuation too, was founded on an anony-
of the country ? The time had not long passed, when those who gave the Roman Catholics such advice, mous two-penny pamphlet that had been somewhere
it was thought a fundamental principle of the Con- but the present was a more auspicious period ; the picked up by the Learned Civilian. In refutation
stitution, that the civil fabric should be combined Prince Regent, to whose hands the Government was of that insinuation, lie would refer to the records of
with a religious establishment ; but now they were now entrusted, possessed the confidence, and excited Parliament—to the Statute Books, where would be
told, it was an absolute theory. He would ask in re- the expectations of the country ; it was a golden op. found oaths that were now taken by the Catholics.
ply to those enlightened speculators, who would se- portunity not to be lost. To refuse the motion would By an oath they abjured all hostile notions towards
Kate them, Could Roman. Catholic Chancellors, be neither more nor less than to refuse to consider the Protestant Church, with the view of establishing
Roman Catholic Privy Councillors, and a Roman the question. their own religion. Such an oath was administered
Catholic Parliament Le considered faithful guardians Mr. YO RKE complimented the temper and mode. to every Catholic in fact, yet was such an insinuation
of a Protestant morwelly ? He was sure that nothing ration of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and wished that tiirown out against them. But oaths even were not
could be more at heart with Catholics, if they were such a disposition hed been more generally observed sufficient to demonstrate that the Catholics had not
sincere, than the extinction of the Protestant Religion• on this question. He wished the measure could be so deeply rooted a hatred of our Church as to induce
When he looked 'at the genius of Catholicism, at the granted with safety, for he possessed every favoura- them to conspire at its overthrow," for, it was said,
excinsive spirit with" which it was imbued, and the ble disposition towards his brethren the Catholics of if they are true," conscientious" Catholics they must
general principle it adopted, that there was no salva. Ireland. When he and those who thought with him aim et its destruction by all manner of means. If
tion out of the pale of:the church, be must say they were represented as labouring under a cloud of pre- they could act contrary to their oaths—if they could
were not safe hands to be entrusted with the care of jud ice, he thought the charge might be easily retorted not keep their hands off our Church, then in what a
the establ:shed religion. As to what had been said as it depended upon the arguments to be adduced. state of danger must that Church be! The meeting
respecting the Church of licothnd, it bore no appli- The subject was most important, but it appeared to of Committee in Dublin, of Tolls, for an election of
cation whatever to the Catholic Church, for there was him to lie within a very narrow compass. Those a Member then must our Church be in danger. If
a spirit in all branches of protestentism which allied who differed from the motion misfit be permitted, danger to our Church were to be apprehended, one
them nearer to each other, and rendered each less without being called Prates:alit bigots (a term very hundred Protestant members might do it just as well
dangerous to the rest.- They had to decide upon one liberally bestowed), to pause before they agreed to as one hundred Catholic rapresentatives. Isy wealth,
or two pronsikiens, whether all religions were the an alteration of the fundamental laws of the realm. I country, power, and inclieetion, the people of Ireland
same, eaai entitled to the same encouragement ; or He we; surprised to hear it stetted that the question formed one sect ; but the effect o our wide-spreading
uir.Ther, if one was preferable to another, it might had nothing- to do with fundamental law, and pro. penal code was, that it separated the nation into two
not be unsafe to trust it into the hands of those who ceeded to read some extracts from the Bill of Rights, sects. Other sects might be freely and lavishly en-
were devoted to its destruction ? When it came to from which he inferred it to be a fundamental law couraged, but to theCe.tholics they dealt out nothing
beta question how far the securities we had should be of this country that we should be ruled by a Protes- but cheerless and eternal exclusion. But it ought to
given up, it was a grave consideration for every man's tam King, and that Papists should not govern the be remembered, that both our Church and State had
own mind. It was easy to compose a declamation, country. The onus probandi lay, he thought, with been brought into danger by what had been called
though not of so brilliant a description as they had those who supported the measure, to sbew that no " Independent" Dissenters. It was but too true, as
heard upon this subject ; there. were general princi- danger would result from it. He, for one, was far had been said by a Right Honourable Gentleman,
pies, plausible in theory, but injurious in the practi- from being satisfied on that point. He next quoted that the Catholics had not the benefit of the Trial by
cal application, on which it was not difficult to make the Acts of Union with Ireland and Scotland, which Jury ; assuredly they had not when that Jury was
a display; but he would refer every man to his own provided that the Protestant religion should be that packed by a Sheriff, to whose feelings the name of
historical reflection, to determine how far power con- of the State. It was not a question of right or tole- Catholic was abhorrent. 'Could any thing be more
fined upon such a sect would be likely to promote ration, but of political power. If this was done for disgusting or abominable than the system of exclu-
those interests to which he was attached by educe- the Irish Catholics, it should be done for those of i sion that was persevered in ? Could any thing be
tion and conviction. They were told, that to accede England also, a body who had conducted themselves more rational ? He would beg leave to read to the
t
• ° the motion would have a tendency to reconcile the in the most loyal, peaceable, and contented manner. i House a passage from a publication which some time
minds of the people. In his opinion, the tendency His opinion was, that ail those laws could only be 1
Duigenan was affixed, Pauick Duigenan, but since appeared in Irelanc, and to which the name of
wculd be directly the reverse; the Committee would justified by necessity. Going into Committee for i
cer-
be afoot for party questions and inflammatory mat- the sake of information, g a ,
would lead to endless dis- 1 tainly not the name ot the Right honourable and
• In all civilised countries, some religion must putes and embarrassment. Those tenets which were I Learned Doctor, for the pamphlet contained senti-
ire secured in the. predominance ; and whatever they not acted upon in, the Catholic Church, but which means diametrically opposite to those which the Right
Might say of the benevolence of mankind, and the
as long as human nature con- were never distinctly abrogated by the Pope, might, Henourable and Learned Doctor was now in the
mild spirit of religion,
he thought, be acted upon, if circumstances should habit of promulgating. (The Honourable Member
timed to be what it was, religious parties would be- arise to call for them, at least, we had no security I then read a passage irom a pamphlet, in which-it
"me political parties. Parties of this description a -ei • He •
gai st it. was one of those wholooked forward .
! was allowed, that if the Catholics gave such security
were the more virulent and dangerous, as they were
not confined to the higher classe • s alone, but extended to the ultimate union, as he might call it, of Protes-1 to the Government as they were now understood to
they would be entitled to the removal of the
their influence to every individual .in the State.— tam and Catholic ; but the more he thought upon ;offer,
Another argument the subject, the more he was induced to believe that I disqualifications which they sough; for.] He would,
insisted on was, that Ireland in the name of the Irish Catholics. exclaim against
would be lost ; that the whole country would be loft Lis first opinions were hastily taken. He then quot- I
! the violation of an early friendship which had sub-
if concessions were not made. But how was he to cd the letters which passed between the Vicars Apos- i
colic and the Catholic Committee, respecting the oath
sisted ; he would be understood as only animadvert-
Understand,,, this threat ? did the allegiance of the I
proposed in Lord Redesdale's Bill, to sliew the i
ing on it as feeling with the Irish Catholics. With
Hon. Gentlemen sit so loose upon them as to permit '
1 ascendancy of the Catholic Clergy over their flock, i him all faith had been broken ;—(Hear, hear)—and
them to decline the defence of the State in such anit now remained to be seen if it was possible to re-
event ? If so, he. the Clergy having proscribed and forbidden the oath'
far from 0, must- be permitted -to say, that so
being an argument in favour of the privi- I
1 notwithstanding the clear arguments of the Commit- cover the ground we had lost.
, tee its its favour. He believed the Popish Church of Mr. LESLIE FOSTER contended, that the Ca-
kyr
ts. demanded,. it went directly in the other way, 1 Ireland was/he most bigotted to the See of Rome tholicism of Ireland was different from that of other
It heir loyalty hung. so. loose about them, they of any Popish church that ever existed in any coon- countries. 'The Hon. Gentleman commented at
should be the last persons entrusted with political i some length on the intolerant behaviour of the Ca.
r,wer. The question, he thought, should be laid try. The Catholic Laity of Ireland were ready to j
i give up the Veto, but the Clergy would not give it . tholic Parliament of James the Second, during that
p one way or-other, and while he gave creditl Monarch's short and tumultuous stay in Ireland.—
' up, And, from all these and many other things, it
to the Hon. Gentlemen en the other side, for their '• ' • Clergy devotedthe See, They legislated an Act, whereby they took from the
attention was evident that the wereto
to the public quiet while in office, by omit- -
tin f Rome, and that they exercised an absolute dome- 1 Protestants their Act of Settlement, conceded to them
g to bring forward this question, he trusted their in a former reign, thereby destroying the surety of
sentiments would not change with change of situa- lotion e the people. Now that the Pope was a :
. prisoner, it was remarkable that none of them had i inheritance descending to their children. Happily
Lion, and that on reflection they would see the im. for the Protestant interest, the overthrow on the
propriety of pressing it forward at present. come forward to express an opinion on that event, or i
' to fix on any plan by which a new election of a Pope j Banks of the Boyne restored them once more to their
Mr. ELLiarr agreed fully in the veneration • as evi
expressed by the Ri h e t Honourable Gentleman for might take place. From every thing, it sr 'dent ' privileges and to their peace. Such had been the
that Bonaparte wanted to have the election of a Pope I conduct of the Catholics when they represented the
the University of -
_ Oxford, and thought the delay of in his own hand • that he wanted to have a complete : People, and We had no surety now but their send-
their
. present petition an additional claim to appro- hands.;
bauon, by si If th controul over the papacy ; and therefore he did not '-moots continued the same. We had received no
in this great gni I
eassi mg e march of tsuth and reason choose that Bonaparte (our bitterest enemy) should concessions from Irelande and were desired to make
canse. He disclaimed all notion of dis- be the keeper of the consciences of three-fourths of i them to her. The experiment they demanded of the
leg the merits of the question upon the ground
the people of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)—No, he would Peotestants was dangerous, especially at a tune when
nlabstract right. This question) like all others, dc-
never consent to such a thing. The idea was not they appeared wiling to take all
from times they ap.