Star.
London, England, 1813-02-19 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The Starch Manufaqturers' Prohibition Repeal Bill was read
a second time, and committed for to-morrow.
Mr. COURTNEY presented the Report of the Resolutions of
the Committee of Supply of lag night, which were agreed to,
and Bills ordered accordingly.
The Land-Tax Commissioners Nantes Bills was read a second
time, and committed for to-nisi row.
P&titions were presented against the Leather Tar,
and in favour of and against the East-India mono-
oly
P .
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, the names of the Defaulters in the
ballot for the Sudbury Election Committee, were
called over, and such defaulters were ordered to at.
tend the ballot fixed for Tuesday ; as were the names
of Defaulters in the ballot for Colchester on Monday.
The following Members were elected to try the
merits of the Haslemere Petition :
Mr. Wood, Sir G. Bowyer,
Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Vanderhagees
Mr: P. Paget, Mr. Singleton,
Lord G, Beresford, Mr. Brand,
Mr. Edmundaton, Mr. W. Lunde,
• _
Mr. Maitland, Sir J. Shaw.
Mr. Fawcett,
The following Members were appointed to try the
,inerits of the Colchester Election :
Mr. Grant, Mr. Brewln,
Mr. Baker, Mr. Cartwrigbt,
Mr. Vyse, Mr. Knox,
Mr. French, Holdsworth,
Mr. Collings, Mr. Ritchford,
Mr. Larkins, !sir C. Sastonl Bate.
Mr. Carew
NOMINE s2IVIr. Bootle and Sir E. Knatebbull, Bart.
AMERICAN WAR.

Lord CASTLEREAGH, in rising to call the at-
tention of the House to the voluminous body of evi-
dence on their table, which had been communicated
'to them by his Royal Highness the Prince Regent,
was confident they would bear in mind the circum-
stances under which it had been laid before them.—
, Bad the question of this night been merely, Whether
or not Ministers, in the late negotiations with Ame-
Tica, had so performed their duty as to merit the ap-
,
probation of PArliament, such a mass of Papers would
/lot have been laid before them. This for their own
personal conduct would not h ive been necessary. It
was enough for them to discharge the arduous duties
of their situations in such a manner as to satisfy their

, own consciences, with, ut calling for the approbation
of Parliament. It had been thought more proper,
as it was more natural for them, to leave it open to
those who thought they had departed from that line
of conduct which ought to have been pursued, to
attack them, before they submitted to Parliament
-the grounds upon which they proceeded. The papers
now on their table had been produced at the instance
of other persons, and particularly in compliance with
i the wishes of an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread),
and from a desire on the part of themselves, to call
for the opinion of Parliament on their conduct. But
, though they did not call for the expression of an °pi.'
• Zion on their conduct in the correspondence which
had taken place between this country and America,
and which had been continued for two years and a
half (from the beginning of 1810 to the latter end of
181'2), they had no reluctance to give every infor-
mation in their power, no reluctance to submit the
whole of their conduct to Parliament, and no dispo-
sition to avoid the fullest investigation. The point
,'which ought alone to occupy the House this night
,was, whether under all circumstances, the calamitous
war in which we were engaged (he thought it cala-
mitous, as it extended the war beyond that sphere,
'before sufficiently ample, to which it had previously
;been confined) was necessary. He knew of no guar-
',ter to which the war could have been extended with
Less prospect of advantage to either party than to the
United States of America ; but if all lamented the
'war,
he trusted all would be satisfied of its justice.
lie spoke the sense of lag Wig:taws I and ho Wasted '

that of the Parliament Ind the
could not but consider the war a
first importance to the country.
had not the tonsolation to Meet,
had averted the war, they hid the
lation—.that of finding thqnselves
on grounds so just, on principl-
derations of such paramount _ iportanee, _
Country was carried into it with a spirit (annum.
mitt', which gave the best pledge that-it would be
prosecuted with vigour, and that peace (the legiti-
mate end of all war) would be accomplished with
the least possible delay. This circumstance had
great weight, not only with the iceople of this coun.
try, but also with the people of America ; for he
did not believe the American people so dead to a
sense of justice, as to prevent its having due weight
on the other side of the water. It would be likely to
have the effect of making the war popular with the
Americans, and of encouraging them to call loudly
on their Government to give them peace. This being
the case, it would be for them to decide whether or.
not the war was just and necessary. The proposition
which he should have to submit ;o them, would be to,
assure his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, that,
confident in its justice, he might rely on their best ex.
ertions to support the honour of the Crown, and
maintain the ancient rights and general interests of the
country. He should waste their time if he were to
travel very far into the contents of the papers before
them. Many of the points which they embraced, had
been at different times discussed, and the opinion of
Parliament, directly or collaterally taken on them.—
He should, therefore, endeavour, as shortly as pos-
sible, to call their attention to the latter part of the
correspondence, to shew the necessity of the war. In
calling on the House to support the Address he
should propose, he felt much confidence in those de-
clarations which had been made in the last Parlia-
ment, doubtless with a view to the best interests of
the country, that if the concessions then made in the
hope of bringing the differences between the two
countries to an amicable termination—if they failed
to remove the existing angry feeling-7if America
took the disposition to conciliate for a submission to
any demands she might put forward, that then they
would unite against ler pretensions, to uphold the
honour, the rights, and the interests of this country.
He trusted those persons would feel themselves re-
sponsible to the country for what they had thus ad.
vanced, and that their support would be given with
as much firmness as it had been promised with sin-
cerity—that America might see they were disposed
to be her friends, they were not disposed to second
her unreasonable wishes. He trusted, on this occa-
sion, no important difference of opinion would exist,
and he thought the unanimous vote of that night
would lay the best foundation for a permanent and
honourable peace. If they looked at the document;
published by the American Government, relative to
the causes of the war, there might appear reason to
fear that the day of peace was at a great or immea-
surable distance. In the declaration of war of the
President, and in site Report of the Minister for Fo-
reign Relations, it would be seen that every thing
was pressed into those publications that could tend to
widen the breach between the two countries. Every
old complaint and ancient grievance, though long
before settled, disavowed, or repaired, were here
brought for ward, unaccompanied by a statemen/of the
consequent steps taken by the British Government.
These were used to influence the minds of the people
in order to make the war popular, when, had pro.
per explanathans been given with them, instead of
justifying the war, they would have furnished argu.
ments directly opposite. The American Government
had built a claim to a desire for peace, on the propo-
sition made for an armistice, when the declaration of
war was issued. If any thing was meant in this, in
what temper had it been urged ? Why, if such a
disposition existed, had statements been made in the
declaration, false in themselves, or if not false, no
longer in fairness to be urged, the subject of com-
plaint having been done away, by explanation or
atonement ? The Orders in Council, and the illegal
blockades (as they called them), but above all the
practice of impressing the King's subjects when found
on board American merchantmen, had been com-
plained of by America. The illegal blockades, as
they were termed, of 1806, it might be said, had
been put out of the question by the proposition made
for an armistice, but this subject had been so pressed
as to leave the English Government no opportunity
of deciding on it, in a manner satisfactory to Ame-
rica, without compromising the rights and the in-
f terests of England. The House would recollect
that Mr. Russell had claimed, on the part of his I
Government, indemnity from this Country to Ame-1
rica for all the captures made under the Orders in
Council, and the blockades of 1806. He did not
say that, at a future period of the negotiation, this
point might not have been given up ; but as the
question stood at that moment, America could have
no right to expect that claims so urged would be ad-
mitted. With respect to the Orders in Council, on
which various discussions had taken place in that
House, he thought he might venture to say, that
those who opposed them differed from those who,
supported them, more on the question of com.
mercial expediency, than on the question of the right
of this country to retort on France, the measure she
had devised for our destruction. He wished to waive
a discussion on this subject at present, but he wished
fit to be distinctly understood, that Ministers, in con-
senting to a relaxation of that system, had never for
a moment abandoned the right they had to resort to
it, nor suffered it to be called in question. He beg-
ged to be understood at all times to assert, that the
measure was not only justifiable, but necessary, at
the time it was resorted to—not merely as a measure
of retaliation on France, but as one of commercial
policy ; and whatever pressure might have been felt
in this country, from the want cf. the American
market, he would say, that but for the manly resist.
ance opposed to the hostility of the enemy, France
would have been as commercially triumphant on the
Continent, as she had unfortunately been in a mili-
tary point of view, and England would have had no
means of contributing to that great change which
had now taken place in the affairs of Europe. He
begged to be regarded as the admirer and the fol-
lower of those principles on which that system had
been taken up by his Right Honourable Friend now
unhappily no more. It had been modified, and its
operation brought within the narrowest bounds cir-
cumstances would permit in the year 1809. After

bt the iloetmient is3lse6 by.the Duke
w efforts had been '
made to make the
Orders In Council less productive of
neutrali An offer had been made
:fly to enforce the blockading system
in concert with her. Dispositions had
manifested to relax in favour of neutrals
necessarily resorted to, so far as this
couldbileine without proving destructive to the
principles on which they were founded—to.coerce,
France, and oblige her to abandon her new system.
The blockades now brought forward had long. been
wholly untonaplained of on the part of America.—
' Three years had elapsed without their being brought
into discussion. The conduct of the, English Go-
vernment in this respect was so far from being offen-
sive to America, that a special representation was
made by the American Ministers in London regard-
ing this, as founded on a disposition to favour Ame-
rica. After stating this, it was unnecessary for him
to argue on this point at great length, as it was one
in which he believed all public characters in this
country were agreed. It had originated in a Govern-
ment of which Mr. Fox was Secretary for Foreign
Affairs, and the Administration which had followed,
maintained the justice of the system of blockade
adopted by England, if supported by an adequate.
force. It was nothing more than a blockade,
resting on the ordinary principle of maritime law.—
Mr. Fox did not institute it till he had written to the
Admiralty to know if it could be supported by an
adequate force ; and he therefore trusted that it stood
on groUnds which meither the Government of Ame-
rica nor the Government of France could by possibi-
lity shake. The most interesting part of the case
was the general question, whether this country had
or had not a right to impress her own subjects when
found on board American merchantmen ? This sub-
ject closely affected the interests of this country, and
it was one which they had been taught to believe of
the first importance to our naval power. He would
not fatigue the House by going through the various
letters which he had received from Mr. Russell, and
the American Agent for Prisoners in this country,
and those which had passed between Admiral Warren
and the American Minister. Though some shades
of difference might appear in various parts of the
correspondence, the House would feel that no sub-
stantial difference of importance could exist. In
looking to this most important question, he wished
to direct the attention of the House to the temper
with which the claims of America had been urged,
though he would be the last man in the world to
contend the temper manifested in the discussion as
that which ought to call forth resentment. He was
not disposed to undervalue the inconveniences to
which America had been exposed from the measures
of the belligerent Powers, as all neutrals must suffer,
more or less ; but America herself ought, however,
to do justice to the earnestness with which Engl.lnd
had laboured to make those inconveniences, as tar as
they depended on her, as light as possible. She
ought to admit, while she manifests so much anxiety.
to protect her own seamen, that England had a right
to the service of her own subjects. This was a right
essential to our conservation, which belonged to us
equally in war and in peace. That which was merely
a question of convenience with her, was one of the
first importance to us—one the decision of which
might go to-shake our very existence. America had,
in his opinion, prostituted the character of her Go-
vernment, in taking the tone which she had assumed
on this subject, which was founded neither on reason
nor sense, and only calculated to excite unjust preju-
dices, which might be fatal to the future harmony of
the two nations. It was not possible for America to
say, looking fairly and dispassionately at the merits
of the case, that the English Government could have
an interest in acting the part imputed to it. They
asserted, that American subjects were seized to man
English ships, and that the persons seized were trea-
ted with peculiar hardship ; and it was very unfairly
assumed, that every seaman taken froth an American
vessel was an American subject. The American
Government accused this country of having impress-
ed fifteeen or twenty thousand of her seamen to man
English vessels. Could it be believed that the Eng-
lish Government were so dead to all the great inte-
rests of state as to risk a war with America for such
an object ? So far from their being any reason to
suppose that twenty thousand American seamen
were in our service, he could state, that at two pe-
riods, not very distant, an order had been given to
call on those who could claim to be discharged as
American seamen to come forward, when, though it
was not to be supposed that fewer than were entitled
to their discharge would come forward, out of the
whole number of men employed in our Navy, now
amounting to 145,000, in January, 1811, out of the
twenty thousand mentioned by the American Go-
vernmtnt, but three thousand five hundred, who in any
way could prefer a claim to a discharge on this ground.
When a similar call was made at the beginning of
the present year, (many having in the mean time
been liberated,) the number fell S or 400 short of that
which be had just stated. This was the number of
individuals who asserted they had a right to be so dis-
charged. The usual proportion of those.entitled to
a discharge on this ground, was found to be one in
four of the number who applied to be thus dismissed
the service. Three out of four were usually found to
have no right whatever to such a discharge. Now if
it was admitted that many who were really Ameri-
cans, from the difficulty of procuring proofs of their
being so, were wrongfully detained, and taking the
number thus kept, to amount to half the total number
claiming to be discharged on such grounds, it would
be seen, that instead of 20,000 American seamen being
in ourservice, there might he 16 or 17(X) who were con-
tinued in cur Navy, contrary to the wish cf the Eng-
lish Government. Could the House believe, could
any man be so infatuated, (for he regarded it as an
infatuation even in America), that England was so
much distressed for men to man her fleets that her
I pride would nd to seek such a resource, and her
Government saricticn such an act of injustice ? Ame-
rica, he trusted, would shortly acknowledge, that we
had not wronged her, and feel that the question was
—not whether we should take her seamen, but whe-
ther England should submit to be deprived of her
own ? He now came to speak of the hazard to which
this country would be exposed, if this point were
given up to America. He hoped he might say, with-
out offence to the American Government, that he had
been able to see nothing in their cxmduct which ought
to disarm our apprehensions, and inspire us with con-

VettCe to trust our interests to their keeping. Milli's
ten were so far from wishing American .leatten totsd
impressed, that instructions were given hot td mkt
men, unless under very particular circumstances, *lit)
were in possession of American certificates: These
instructions, however, had not been given, with Ont a
consciousness that many of these certificates were
fraudulently obtained, and so fraudulently granted,
th t a knowledge of the practice was totally ;nem.
sisteat with the idea, that we ought to entertain std
apprehensions of the conduct of America. Cerra.
cates were granted in the United States with A degree
of laxity, of which, for the honour of America, every
one ought to feel ashamed. In New York and Phi•
ladelphia the system of obtaining these from the coll.
lectors was so scandalously complete; that at the fora
suer place an old woman, in one day, uas suffered by
the collector to qualify a whole host. On her o .th
that those she introduced were Americans, they er,•re
all registered as subjects of the United States, and c..in
went on till at last the clerk, who was under due
collector, was so shocked, that he asked his =pert*
" if he could suffer so palpable a cheat to paw
and if he would lend himself to so disgraceful is
transaction ?" The answer of the collector weep
" that he acted ministerially :" and the old was
'man went on to swear in those she had brought,
receiving two dollars for each ; and all thus sworn in
were registered as American subjects. At Philadele
phia the proceedings were as bad; but he would not
follow up his statement by a detail of similar ma.
sactions. He, however, would ask, did Ameriai
profess to admit that the subjects of this country
were bound to our service ? On the contrary, did
she not deny it, and maintain, that by the process he
had described, or by any individual's taking the oath
of allegiance to-Vae United States, a subjcct of Eng.
land ceased to owe allegiance to his King ? The
question of inipressment hence arising, he contended,
was a question of great difficulty, and he would say,
that though they ought never to shut the dour against
negociation, yet with a knowledge of these circum-
stances they could not view the conduct of America
without jealousy and mis:rust ; and therefore they
would not be, justified in surrendering to them a right
founded on the law of nations, which had never been
called in question before, and which never r.tionally •
could be called in question. In a former stage of the
negociation, the subject of impressment had tormed
a subject of discussion ; but it was never till the mo-
ment at which war was declared, that this was put
forth as that which must be given up to America, or
war commence between the two countries— but this
was the length to which America nnw went. The
blockade of 1806 was no longer in force—the Orders
in Council were nowrevoked—and now it was said,
we will continue the war unless this also is conceded,
nor unless this were virtually assented to, would they
even consent to an armistice, as appeared from the
letter of Mr. Munroe to Admiral Warren. The No-
ble Lord now proceeded to describe what had passed
between himself and Mr. Russell. Au objection
might have been made to opening any negociation
with Mr. Russell, as he was in possessi of nothing
to give the character of an accredited diplomatic
agent. Unwilling, however, to raise a difficulty cas
a mere question of form, this had been waved. Mr.
Russell stated, that the conditions required by his
Government for the conclusion of an armistice were
these ? That the blockade should cease to be is force,
that the Orders in Council should be revoked, and
the practice of impressment should be suspended.—
These be was instructed to require, but he had an
further instructions from his Government. When
he (Lord C.) bad asked what was to be understood
by art American subject and a British subject, and
whether men naturalized in America were to be con-
sidered as absolved from their allegiance to England?
He frankly acknowledged that he had no instructions
on these points. In fine, he had not received from
his Government instructions to carry on a five
nutes discussion. He gave some opinions of his own,
but none which he ( Lord C.) had reason to think
were those of his Government ; and when he asked
if he (Mr. Russell) had no project to present ? His
answer was s, No, he had not." Under these cir-
cumstances the negociation could not proceed, as
America could not be bound by any arrangement
concluded with such an agent. From past ripe.
rience, Ministers had learnt the necessity of being
cautious in their negociations with America. He
had generally found a disposition on the part of
those concerned in it to think too lightly of the ques-
tion .relative to the practice of impressing British sea.
men fi ern American ships. He had thought he did
his duty, and that he acted the part of a peace maker,
when he told Mr. Russell what his ideas were on
that subject, and represented it to be of little compa-
rative importance to America, but of great moment
to England. That which he had communicated to
Mr. Russell in confidence, had been made more use
of by the American Government than ought to have
been made of it ; and when a discussion on this sub.
ject was entertained, or a project received by the Eng-
lish Government, the American Government had
been too much in the habit of thinking this country
on the point of acceding to their demands. This seas
the ease in 1803, when the subject during the Admi-
nistration of Lord Sidmouth was first taken into con-
sideration. Mr. King then wrote home to his Go-
vernment that he had every reason to believe it would
soon be settled, but when the project which lisd been
approved by Earl St. Vincent and Lord Liverpool+.
came before the Law Officers, they gave it as the:r
decided opioi-n, that it could not be by any mese;
carried into effect. In 1806, the discussion of this
subject was renewed between Lords Holland, A JCL.-
land, and Mr. l'inkney, and Mr. Munroe. T:-.ree
ferentpcjets were produced in the course of drat re-
gociation by the American Ministers; but after the
most extended deliberation, the two Noblu Lord+
were obliged to declare each of theirpojeer inadmis‘
sible, and to dive it as their opinion, that the treat,
.must go to its conclusion, without having any thir gin
lit on the subject of impressment. This de
contended, was not a question easytobesletrfteleodr.e:t,
was not one which ought to be discussed in a sta,cof
.
war, or under an armistice, nor was it to be .coreete
by a threat of war being held over our heads.—
Though an imp-Ttant question to England, it was net
so to America, at; was proved by one circumstances
which was this :—All the maritime States of An!:
rica, which really contained American seamen, vc•
men would be seized if the statement of their
vernment were true, were strongly against die
If the statements alluded to were true. in what r";

ts3rti
dotintry ; but mil jit ibeakitroal at
tititiff ras a cala the 4 new
If, hciiieirti• tbey Ritratide, our 1
Int. that doll ' • ilsotrwience to
d the next grl/2-.t*otpet. KAWca strict
Ives engaged In *Wax tirli) Modify it ii
des founded on consi- always been man
importance, that the the measures ne