Star.
London, England, 1822-06-27 00:00:00

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Nofotbhke Cmoma.r icititts eealllhttilt alluded
as
sa
ith4Reassobeludoplean-sed
of The
dis vigouraxg—(A litis.44)--aye, Sir, dis-vigouring l
The term was not has (Mr. Creevey's): he should
never think of using such a word. He had borrowed
it from the vocabulary of the Noble • Marquis—(4
laugh).—He was never more /surprised than when he
heard it. He wished to shew what had been the
practice of Parliament at various times. In 1782 hel—He had now stated to. the House the motion which
found a Message from the King to the following ef. be had to submit. He knew he should be left in a
fect:" His Majesty has taken into consideration the limited minority, yet he knew that, when the enlight-
supply granted by Parliament, and, in the present ened opinion of the country would become ac-
distressed state of the country, recommends to his quainted with the facts which he had stated, sooner
faithful Com Mons to adopt the most effectual plan of or later the Bill would be entirely removed from
economy." Now, if that retrenchment was necessary their statutes—(Hear, hear).
at the end of the American war, when *e had only Mr. BANKES said, he w,as not sorry the Hon.
a debt of 200,000,0001. how much More necessary Member had brought the subject before the House,
was it now, when that debt amounted to 800 millions? because it would give him an opportunity of explain.
(Hear, hear).—This system was perfectly new ; but ing the views of the Committee which recommended
supposing it were not, and that it had been the prac. the Bill. The principle of the Bill was to abolish
tice of Parliament to propose rewards for public men, every office without duty. The Hon. Gentleman
and to marshal them out like clerks, there never was said, the principle was not -one which ought to be
such an atrocious, abominable barso.irras was made supported, and that it was a departure from the prin-
between these pensioners and the Public. The fifth ciple of Mr. Burke's Bill. That great man held that
Resolution, which he should now read, referred to it would not be injurious to the Constitution, if the
that part of the subject: Government were allowed to tempt great talents into
" 5. That in addition to and independent of the preceding the public service, by the means of giving certain
objections, u affecting the origin and principle of the Pension offices as a remuneration. The Committee of which
ICI, the contract which is thereby set up between the pensioners he was Chairman when they considered the measure
under the Bill, and the public at large, is without any adequate " ,
consideration or advantage on the part of the nation ; that the then before the House, were willing to adopt the
offices to be prospectively abolished or regulated, by the Act of principle which allowed sinecures to be given for
the 57th of George the Third, cap. 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 67, and 84, public services, but they found it had been abused,
forma limited part only of offices of the same description. and
which were all decided upon as fit to be abolished or regulated that they could not concur with Mr. Burke in his
by the votes of this House, in the years 1912 and 1813; that of view of the subject. They resolved to abolish sine-
the offices to be prospectively abolished, those of the two Chief cures, and they recommended the Sovereign to te-
Justices in Eyre, of the value of two Thousand pounds per annum ward services with pensions rather than offices
each, are the only ones which have been usually granted by the It was impossible he could support the motion.
Crown to persons who have held high and efficient civil offices,
and that of the offices to be prospectively regulated, the pried- —lf the Bill was repealed matters would return to
pal regulation is, that the duties of such offices are to be propor- what they were. On the repeal of the Bill sinecures
tiunably regulated. The principal regulation is, that the duties must revive. The offices retained in Mr. Burke's Bill
of such offices shall be performed by the holders thereof in per- had been ,ab° lished ; but with respect to offices held
son, instead of by deputy, the appointment to such offices, as well •
aspf salaries, being left at the sole discretion of the Commis- for life, that was a species of property which Mild
aioners of his Majesty's Treasury ; and yet in return for, and by sat be set at nought. Much had been said with re-
way of purchase of these prospective, partial, and indefinite spect to a pension granted to his Noble Friend, but he
savings, the people are to pay, from henceforth 42,0001. per would appeal to the House whether the conduit of
annum, in perpetuity, to the different public servants of the
Crown who are named in the Pension Bill." his Noble Friend, while he filled the Chair of that
The principle on which the Pension Bill was sane- House, was not admired? He was convinced no man
tioned was, that by its operation many places had ever received more respect and gratitude for public
been altogether abolished ; but with very few excep- services. It was but reasonable to reward the Noble
dons, all that had been done was, to introduce an in- Lord for a long and laborious public life—(Hear).— i
definite kind of regulation. An Hon. Gentleman near He could not consent to repeal the Bill, anti thereby
him (Mr. Bankes) had stated on a former occasion, deprive the Crown of the prerogative of remunerating
that he (Mr. Creevey) had voted for these enactments; public men. The best prerogative of the Crown was
but the Bill to which he gave his support, professed to that which made them authors of the benefits con-
have for its object the abolition of all offices which terred on meritorious public servants. If ever they
had no employment, and to regulate those which had; took that prerogative out of the hands of the Crownl
and there was this difference between that Bill and it would not only be unconstitutional, but occasion a
the one they were now discussing—namely, that ac- burden more onerous than the pensions. The Hon.
cording to the Bill for which he, voted, all the salaries Member concluded by moving, as an Amendment,
of useless offices were to be saved to the Public. At that the House proceed to the other Orders of the Day.
that time he took the Hon. Member for a sincere Re- Mr. H. G. BENNET said, that lie had voted for
former, but never was Reformer so dis-vigoured— the Bill, though the Lord Chancellor had applied to
(Laughter). He was surprised that a grave Gentle• it every species of hard name, because his object was
man like the Hon. neMber, could first introduce a to keep in his hands the patronage of sinecure offices.
measure of such vast utility as the one to which he But though he had supported the Bill, it did not fol•
had alluded, and afterwards, when he fell into the low that he was to agree in the fraudulent substitute
company of the Noble Marquis and others, support a which his Hon. Friend wa, so anxious to censure;
measure which gave additional salaries, and for only and the more especially as those offices were gene-
two years service. Now with a view that the Nation rally applied, not to reward useful services, but po-
might form some conjecture of the vast saving which litical prostitution—(Hear, hear).—He objected to
had been effected in the course of five years, by a mea- the present Bill, because it enabled adventurers, who
sure of economy which had emanated from the Great prostituted their talents in that House, to raise them.
Council of the Nation, he should propose the follow- selves to the highest offices in the State, and after the
ing Resolutions: ' lapse of two years to retire upon a pension tor life
•' 6. That from the Returns which have been made to the He did not believe that the country would be a 14,ser
House, of offices already abolished or regulated under the Act by the repeal of the Bill; for in that case the House
last mentioned, and of pensions received under the Pension• Bill, would never agree to give £3OOO to such a man as
the following appears to be the result of the contract between
the Noble Viscount, nor the Clerkship of the Peas to
the pensioners claiming under the Pension Bill and the public at
large. up to the present period. In England, offices abolished, his son. The former, he thought, was just as much
those of Clerk to the Warden of the Mint ; saving, Da los- calculated to fill the Ministerial situation he had lately
per annum. Stamper of Weights; saving, 2501. per annum.— occupied, as one of the door-keepers of the House—
Total saving in England in five years, 3421. 10s. In Scotland, ..
I Hear, hear). It might become those who were the
offices abolished, viz. Vice-Admiral, saving, 1,9001. per annum. ,
Inspector of Military Roads; saving, 2001. per annum. Offices supporters of the Manchester massacre, and the eulo-
vacant and subject to regulation, Lord Registrar in Scotland, gists of spies and informers, to praise the Noble
late value 1,2001. but no saving returned. King's Remem- Viscount, but he could not consider it anything
brancer's Office in Scotland ; saving returned, 5001. and the but an unfortunate selection, which had placed
office of Teller of the Exchequer in Ireland, late value 1,3001.
such a man in an office of such high importance.
per annum • but no saying returned. Pensions which have re-
ceived his 'Majesty's sign manual, under the Pension Bill, to The Honourable Gentleman next expressed his sur-
Henry Lord Viscount Sichnciuth, 5,0001. per annum; and to prise at the ground on which the Hon. Member for
the Right Hon. Henry Goulburn, 1,0001. per annum; the latter Corfe Castle had opposed the motion. He judged,
pension being suspended by the Pension Bill, as long as Mr.
from the. general conduct of the Hon. Member, that
Gouiburn holds the office of Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieu-
of Ireland." he was 'a friend to reform fir little things, but an
"7. That this House is of opinion, that had the offices of enemy to economy apd reform in matters of import-
ant to the Warden of the Mint and Stamper of Weights in ance to the country ; and he was of opinion that no-
England, and the offices of Vice-Admiral and Inspector of Mi.
limy Roads in Scotland, remained at the disposal of the Crown,body had done more than the Hon. Member to pre-
instead of being abolished, they would not have been conferred vent any real reform from taking place—( Hear).
by his Majesty upon Henry Lord Viscount Sidmouth, as a re- Mr. B ANKES, in explanation, said, that the attack
sompence for his services,.in the different high and efficient situ- made on him by the Hon. Member (Mr. H. G. Ben-
' ations which he has held, and that even if they had been all so
net) with respect to Reform, was most unfounded.--
conferred upon Lord Sidmouth, their united profits are very infer
rior in amount to the pensions he now receives as a compensation The lion. Member had said that he (Mr. Bankes) was
for the loss of them. That it appears, moreover, by a docu- a reformer in little things, but an enemy to every
ment lately laid before the House, that in the year 1812, Henry kind of reform or economy in matters of importance.
Lord Viscount Sidmouth, being then First Commissioner of He would appeal to the whole course of his Parlia-
his Majesty's Treasury, did grant to his son, Henry Addington,
the office of Clerk of the Fells, in England, of the annual value mentor conduct against such an insinuation, which,
of 3,0001. and that Lord Sidmoutb or his family have received in justice to himself, he must term false.
the profits of such office for twenty years, although Lord Sid- Mr. H. G. BENNET said, that with every possible
mouth, during a great portion of such time, has held different contumely, he returned the term " false" in every
offices of great emolument under the Crown; that the office of
Clerk of the Pens was, at the time it was last granted, and is sense in which it was used by the Honourable Mem-
now, an office executed entirely by deputy; but by one of the her (Mr. Bankes).
Acts of regulation, before referred Up, the duties of such office The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not
at some future period are to be performed by the principal in avoid repelling with indignation some of the state-
person. So that Lord Sidmouth, or his family, receive at pre-
meats he had heard from the Hon. Gentleman who
sent 5,0001. per annum as the profit of this office without
being subject to any regulation whatever, and Lord Sidmouth introduced the motion, and the Honourable Member
receives a further sum of 3,000/. per annum, as a compensation for Shrewsbury. -He had never listened in an as-
for some injury which it is presumed some other person may sembly of Englishmen to sentiments so revolting to
sustain by some future regulation of this office, when Lord Sid-
mouth's interest or that of his family therein shall cease." the general feeling of the House. The Honourable
Member said he could only find disgust and cor-
-He did not wish to go out of his way to say any
ruption in the operation of the BilL Mr. Burke had
thing uncivil of Lord Sidmouth, but he believed the
greatest admirers of the-Noble Lord would admit recommended the retention of offices as the means of
that he was not likely to enjoy a more lasting or dis- rewarding merit, but it seemed those offices had been
tinguished place in history than Lord Godolphin or abused in the application, and the Bill which the
House was called upon to repeal, was introduced.
Lord Chatham.' Yet both these Noble Lords only
condescended to take one pension, and that from clue The Honourable Member had represented the Bill as
Crown. He supposed Lord Sidmouth received his accomplishing all the work of corruption, and then
'them
pensions too from the Crown, although one o had lavished all the malevolence of his mind against
would seem to have been conferred by himself-- (4 L
his Noble Friend the late Secretary of State. The
laugh). He should now propose the final Resolution : Noble Marquis was not surprised the Hon. Member
" s. That this House is of opinion, that for the House of never would forgive his Noble Friend for his cone
Commons to provide Pensions for the principal Servants of the scientious service to the country. During the most
Crown, by Committees of its own, and without any application difficult of period our history that Noble lord pro-
from the Throne for such purposes, is an Interference with the
totted the country and surmounted the danger. He
just prerogative of the Crown-.era abuse of that power over
the public money, with which this House is intrusted by the knew his Noble Friend never could be forgiven by
Constitution—and an intolerable grievanceto the People; and the Hon. Gentleman, because he made them fed
that this grievance is still further aggray.ted by that new what the hand of Government was able to doe-.
and degrading principle of the Pension Bill, which Compels
His Noble Friend had been mentioned in the most
tlic Pcople to purchase from the Servants of the Crown
every abolition or regulation of a useless or 0 vtiraitl offige..— disgustiog lffidllgers awl tinted WPM Liitail a

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'• That after alt the aiediletekubkLiame boaLtaaile by. the great
and of kingdollffi, and under all that
j an Whit which* great portion of such popu-
is it puma Abated. they are entitled. to demand, as a
matter aright and justice, and pot of purchase, the abolition
j and regulation of every useless and overpaid office in the State
! whatsoever; and that, in conformity,to all such just and reason-
' able claims it is the opinion of this House that the Ministerial
IPension Mil of the 57th of his late Majesty, e. 65, ought to be
repealed forthwith."