Star.
London, England, 1831-04-21 00:00:00

111LACIki. OF ',lynxes.

Lord KING prevented a petition from J. iTlak Imo, printer of the
Times, in custody for a breach of privilege. and moved it be read.
The petition was accordingly read by the clerk at the table.
" To the Right Honourable Lords Spiritual and Temporal.
" The bumble petition of John Joseph Lawson, now in custody,
sheweth, that your petitioner feels sorrow and regret at having given
offence to one of your Lordships, and your Hight Honourable
House. Your petitioner begs pardon, and humbly begs he may he
so at liberty by your Right Honourable House, and your petitioner
will ever pray," &c. Sec.
The Earl of LIMERICK repeated his former declaration—namely,
that he was influenced by no personal motive in bringing forward
this muter. He had considered the paragraph of which he com-
plained a puss attack ou the dignity of that house—Having brought
It under the consideration of their Lordships, be had done his duty.
He did not wish to move for any severe punishment, at the same
time he was aware that offenders of this sort had been visited with
severe punishment. In 1798 the editor of the Chronic& was sen-
tenced by their Lordships to a fine of 1001. and them months int-
iggsonment in Newirate for a libel.—lt was not his denim to pursue
That course; but he would leave the ease in the bends of their
jelardships.
The Bali of MANSFIELD proposed that the petition do lie on the
table sod he taken into consideration to-morrow.
Lord KIND.—.I conceive after the punishment the petitioner bas
suffered, that the better course would be to call him to the bar to Lc
reprimanded and discharged.
Earl BATHURST suggested that the debate on this subject should
be with closed doors.

The Earl of MALMESSURY thought the discussion on such a
*abject could not have too much publicity. The man might be brought
up to-morrow and the question might be debated.
Earl GREY did not deny that cases might occur in which it would
be proper to debate in secrecy ; but in most cases it was better to de-
bate openly. The noble earl added that he should have been satisfied
with calling the individual to the bar to be reprimanded and discharged ;
but he did not object to the proposition for adjourning the matter till
to-alert's:lW.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, a resolution stood upon
their journals, by which it appeared the editor of a newspaper bed pub-
lished a scandalous libel on the house, and he thought the confinement
of the offending party for a short time was not punishment adequate to
the offence. His hope was, that their lordships would adopt means to
discover the author of the libel. " I hope, said the noble marquis
(looking hard at the Lord Chancellor), " you will take measures to dia.
cover the individual who masks himself. I think, if the individual who
wrote this paragraph has any teelinA at all, he must on this occasion have
bitter pangs of conscience in his own mind, when he sees your lordships
about to punish the publisher, who only obeyed the orders he received
from his employers." When he heard the noble and learned lord oo
the woolsack address the house on the subject, it appeared to him that
the noble and learned lord was an advocate fur the offender, rather than
the jadge. (Order, order.)
The LORD CHANCELLOR rose.—" I assure the Noble Marquis,
so little do I dread him, that I have no objection that he should go on,
and make an exposure of me end himself. I care not one rush 'for
him. I would rather meet his charge than his insinuation. I never
insinuate—l charge. I know he is incapable of supporting what he
insinuates, and I call on the Noble Lord to charge me with something."
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not charge the noble and
learned lord with any thing. No one felt more respect than be did for
the noble and leaned lords splen'lid talents, but the noble and learned
lord should as* put him down. The noble and learned lord, by his
eloquence, could make the worst appear the better reason. The noble
marquis described the proceedings on the preceding evening, and oh-
served that the noble and learned lord (Wynford) had recommended
fine and imprisonment. He should beg leave, if necessary, to move we
a copy of the effidavit made by the Timis at the Stamp-oflice, for the
purpose of finding the writer of the h. He believed Mr. Law-
son to be as innocent of writing it as lie
The LORD CHANCELLOR said he did not knew whether he
tti...skt not setivilOrt nu own tttgnity better by abstaining front notice or
the observations made by the noble marquis. Under whatever view ho
considered the speech of the noble marquis, it was the moat extiaordi-
nary distortion of facts he had ever heard; but the most serious pan
was charging the Lord Chancellor sitting as judge, with becoming
counsel for the offender.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY explained.—The words he ut.
tered were—lt almost made him believe the noble and learned bold was
counsel for the culprit.
The LORD CHANCELLOR.—My lords, I believe that this is
the first time, and it may be the last, that I have called a noble peer to
order, and I know not whether I should not best consult the con-
venience of your lordships and myself, if I took no notice of the speech
of the noble marquis. But I must set myself right in some few par-
ticulars. The noble marquis has accused me of acting as counsel for
the offender.
The Marquis of LONDO NDE RRY.—No ; what I said was, that
your lordship wok that course which almost induced me to believe that
you were counsel I r the offender.
The lASRD ('HA NCELLOR.— Well, good arguers, like the noble
marquis, have got a way of wrapping up their meaning in words little
capable of being understood. I ant a plain man, and will state to your
lordships, without any of the semi-professional subtlety of the noble
marquis, about what I really did yesterday. The noble lord is perfectly
right in allowing no man to prevent him discharging what he conceives
to he his ditty, and far be it front me to say anything that would tenth
in the smallest degree to make him retire from his duty in Parliament.
But I wish, if the noble marquis has any charge in connection with
this subject to bring against me, or any other member of this house.
lie would come boldly, straightforwardly, and manfully, and put it
in such a shape as that I can meet it (Hear, hear.) The charge
of the noble marquis would almost make your Lo ctshipa believe
that I had acted as counsel fur the culprit. (Hear, hear, hear.)—
The noble marquis has found it very convenient, however, to give but
an imperfect account of what I did say; and I am in the judgment of
the house, whether I did not state, that whatever might be the advice
I should feel called npon to give your lordships, that it was a case ab.
solutely clear against the offending party. The result of my experience
is, that the discussion of the privileges of this house tend noting to
support its privileges and keep up its dignities. But, my lords, that
I should agree foe a breach of privilege of this description, that a
man should be sentenced to pay a fine of 1001. andimptisowed tine
months, would be utterly impossible. Before I did so, I must lave
the matter well sifted. I could never agree that an individual
should undergo such punishment, who had been tried by no jury, who
had had no counsel to take up his defence, but merely on the sug-
gestion of a noble lord, who thinks proper to get up in his wet
and make a complaint against him. If such things were to be al-
lowed, every individual in his Majesty's dominions would no doubt
he liable, on the application of a noble lord, to be sent to New-
gate, and confined interminably. If the 'noble marquis thinks
at is a matter of course that his majesty's *objects should be sent to
prison every time they were charged with a breach tirprivilege, he and
I must argue that point. For these reasons I, a Mend of the privileges
of this house, and an enemy to any thing like a breach of them, trust
your lordships will have the prudence and the discretion to pause ere
you give, in so solemn and grave a manner, your lordships counten-
ance to ouch questionable proceedings. He repeated, that he was a
friend to the privileges of the house, but could not consent for such a
breach of privilege as that brought under consideration, to line
a man 1114 IL and send hint to prison for three months. They might
go on upon such a course of proceeding until they made the House of
Lords an Inquisition. He would not admit that they had the right
to proceed in that way.
lord WYNFORD said he had not spoken of fine and imprison-
merit. lie had spoken of fine, and no imprisonment unless the fine
was withheld. In that 011ie the party must remain according to the
practice of law until the tine be paid.
The Marquis of LA NtsDOW NE proposed, that Mr. Lawson should
be °nitre(' to appear at the liar again to-morrow, then to be repel-
'winded, and afterwards discharged ; but should any ooble lord propose
Ito carry the proposition farther, it should have his decided opposition.
Earl GREY, woo spoke almost inaudibly, was supposed to say, that
discussieee on such subjects aid not enhance the dignity of that house.
Lord '1 ENTE It DEN said. that when the court of common law or-
tkreti a fine to he paid, it invariably accompanied that sentence by order-
ing the party to be confined till it was paid; and he could not conceive
but that both the houses of parliament had the same power. The power
was given for the sake of the public at large, and if the houses of par-
liament had not the power of vindicating their privileges, there would
be an end to all good order.
The LORD CHANCELLOR was surprised to hear the bird
Chief Justice of England declare that Parliament had that power,
which bad been disputed in the stoutest periods of Parliamentary privi,
leges. This was a disputed power. Let any man bring forward a
motion, and the Noble and Learned Lord might be able to persuade
the House that they had the power, but if be did, he (the Lord
Chancellor) should feel himself mistaken. If they had the power,
the very circumstance of the Noble Members of that House being the
Judges of their own cases—not always the most ca/m, temperate, and