Star.
London, England, 1814-11-12 00:00:00

TILE MILITIA.

The Order far summoning their Lordships, upon
a motion of Lord FITZWILLIAM respecting the
Militia, being read—
The Noble Earl rose, and, adverting to the value'
and importance of the Militia Establishment,•ilhis
traced the necessity of guarding it with peculiar jea-
lousy. The several statutes which the Legislature
in its wisdom had enacted upon this sui,ject afforded,
he observed, ample evidence of its solicitude to pre-
serve that great constitutional force from any sort of
violation, to prevent any pervtrsinn of it from the
original objects of its institution. Those objects were
therefore clearly defined by the law, arid to apply the
Militia to any purpose without the contemplation of
that law would, he apprehended, naturally claim the
attentipn of Parliament. Looking to the law in order
to understand its letter and spirit, he was led to eon•
dude that there were only four cases in which it was
provided that the Militia should be called out or em-
bodied. These four cases were—invasion, imminent
danger, insurrection, and actual rebellion; and be,
held that if the militia were embodied in any other'
case the law was directly violated. What, then, sit as
to he thought of keeping the Militia embodied at a
time when none of the'cases described could be said
to exist ? Under such circumstances he decidedly
thought that, according to law, no part of the militia
could be embodied. This he ventured to lay down
as a position, sustained by the contents of the diffe-
rent Statutes'applicable to the question. Upon what
groimd the keeping of the Militia'embodied at pre-
sent could be justified, he was .wholly at a loss to
conceive, peace be)ng restored in Europe, and in the
present state of the country he could not suppose
that any of the cases he had mentioned could be al-
leged to exist. It was not stated that there was any
such serious apprehension of danger from abroad 'as
these cases referred to, and it could not be pretended
that the coentry was in any degree disturbed. He,
indeed, fAt himself warranted in asserting that neither
of these cases did exist, and therefore he maintained
that keeping the militia embodied was in direct vio
lotion of the law. Having said so much as to the
law upon this suliject, the Noble Lord proceeded to
animadvert upon the grievances occasioned by 'em-
bodying the militia. The circumstances of the men
who were thus compelled to remain in a military
establishment, were, he felt, peculiarly ihs.rviog of
.consideration. How many peasants and tradesmen,
originally forced to enter the militia, u.cre, by conti-
nuing the establishment, denied the happiness they
had promised themselves, of returning to their hothes
and families upon the conclusion of peace ? How
many of that description were thus excluiled from
the enjoyment of their domestic comforts, which weie
no doubt comp rAticely, few, but still they were the
comforts of their condition, and the disappointment
must be felt by them with aggravated severity. But
the Mortification of these deserving persons who h id
already' devoted a great part of their lives to the
public service, was not the only grievance created by
.keeping the militia embodied ; for the several town.
ships of every county were aggrieved through their
obligation to maintain the wives and families of such
militia men as were retained in service. Taus the
counties whose militia regiments remained embodied
were encumbered with the maintenance of the wives
and families of the men whose industry was rendered
unavailable .for the benefit of these counties, while,
by the bye, Ministers had thought proper, in dis-
banding some regiments, wholly to exempt from
such burdens the counties to which these regiments
belonged. The Noble Earl concluded with moving
fcr--.. A Return of the Militia Regiments which
had been disbanded, and the time when the orders
for disbanding them were issued, together with a
Return of the Militia Regiments which were still
embodied."

Lord SIDMOUTH said, that as the orders re-
ferred to on the motion of the Noble Earl, were issued
from the office in which lie had the honour to pre-
side, he felt it necessary to address some observations
to their Lordships upon the subject. The Noble Earl
had truly stated that it had formed a part of the con-
siderate wisdom of the Legislature to make v irious
provisions for the maintenance and application of our
Militia establishment. But in adverting to the seve-
ral Acts which, with regard to our great constitu-
tional force, the policy of the Legislature had thought
proper to adopt as restrictions upon the prerogative
of die Crown respecting martial law, the Noble Earl
had omitted to mention a case to which that force
was rendered available,rnamely, the recruiting of our
regular army. But the authority of the Crown was
not even independently of that case by any means so
limited as the Noble Earl appeared to think ; for his-
tory afforded numerous instances in which the Mi-
litia had been called out and embodied, when neither
of the four cases existed which the Noble Earl had
described. But it could not be disputed that in'a state
of war, the Sovereign was legally entitled to call nut
and embody the Militia of the country for its own de-
fence. Such indeed had always been the universal
understanding, and there was not a single clause in
Any of the Acts upon the subject, to negative the
power of the Crown to call out the Militia upon the
existence of danger. He, however, was free to
`admit that the Militia were not to continue embodied
after that danger had ceased, but to determine upon
'that cessation, was left to the discretion of the sub-
ject, no doubt to a grave responsibility as to the exer-
cise of that discretion. So much, with respect to the
law noon this subject, and then as to the grievances
and disappointments coinplaincd of by the Noble

Lord, who were they by whom that complaint could
be consistently preferred !. The hallooed' man was
still entitled to his discharge et the en 1 of five years,
fur which be was originally bound to serve; and as
to the suboitute, be was engaged to serve for years,
or so ling as the regiment in which he ettlioed
continued entbodied. Such were the terms of his
oath. What contract then was violeted with those
men by the plan to continue the Militia establishment
embodied ? They had, in fact, no reasonable ground
of complaint in being retained in the service, while
the country unhappily remained in a state of war.—
The legality of so retaining them could not, he was
convinced, be consistently questioned. In this, there-
fore, he totally differed from the Noble E
he fully concurred with him in reeretting the hard-
ships alluded to, but these hardships arose out of the
necessity created by the public exigency, which be
alleged to exist, and to require the suspensi nf of the
rJer for disembodying the Militia. With regard to
the grievance mentinned by the Nettle Earl respecting
the maintenance of the wives and families el such
militia-men as continued embodied, he had the satis-
faction of informing the Noble Earl and the House,
that this point had been considered by Ministers, and
that it was intended to relieve the counties to which
the embodied regiments belonged, by defraying the
expence of such maintenance from the public funds of
the country. The Noble Visccunt repeated, that ol-
der all the circumstances of our settatien, it was
found necessary to continue some of the Militia em-
bodied. The public exigency called for taxi pro.
eeeding, and unless some me.tsu:e could be devised,
equally expeditious and efficient, to keep up the pub-
lic force of the country to the standard rendered 1:C•
cessary by that exigency, that proceeding could not
be properly dispensed with ; but lie could assere the
House that that proceeding would not he continued
longer than the exigency which seggeoed it should
continue to exist. To the mistier. of the Noble Earl
he did not propose to make any oh;ectiote but he
thought it necessary to assure the Neble Earl aad the
Houseothat as to the regiments disbanded, no pat tie)
spirit, no undue influence whatever, had any opera-
tion,the application of the order to any particular to-
giments being, in fact, a mere matter of accident, be-
fore it was found necessary to prevent its general ex-
tension—before his Majesty's Government saw the
propriety, from peculiar circumstances, of fob bearing
From any further reduction of our means of domestic
defence, or of provision for tbe supply of our foreign
exie,encies.
Lord GRENVILLE thought it proper to afferd
the Nehle Secretary an opportunity of setting himself
right, if he (Lord Grenville) had not correctly un-
derstood the purport of his observations. But first,
with respect to the law upon this subject. Before he
came to the House, he had great doubts as to the le-
gality of the proceeding of Ministers, in ordering the
Militia to continue embodied, not withstanding the
conclusion of peter in Europe ; and these doubts, in-
stead of having been removed or shaken, were, lie
must confess, considerably strengthened by what had
linen from the Noble Secretary of State. If then
the grounds stated by that Noble Lord were those
only upon which he proposed to rest, he should pro-
nounce the measure of Ministers to be totally un war-
rentable. He should, however, reserve the right of
changing his opinion if other and satisfactory grounds
for this extraordinary measure should be advanced :
but the Noble Earl had, in the course of his endea-
vour to justify this measure, offered arguments which
were not only inconsistent with the laws for regulat-
ing the conduct of the Militia, but wholly irreconcil-
able with the principles of a free government. What
did the Noble Secretary mein by describing the laws
respecting the Militia as restrictions upon the prero-
gative of the Crown ? Did lie mean that those liws
only restrained the Crown from subjecting the people
of this country to Martial Ltw ? while the fact was,
that according to the Law of England, the. Crown
had no right whatever t 3 exercise such an authority,
excepting in one ceseonly, namely, in the event of actual
invasion. If the Noble Secretary thought otherwise,
he was sure the Noble Lord on the Woolsack would
correct his error. The laws relative to the Militia no
doubt restricted the Crown from using that force in
any cases different from those pointed out by the Le-
gislature, and these cases had been correctly descri-
bed by his Noble Friend who brought forward the
motion. But the Noble Secretary alleged, that there
was no clause in the Acts referred to which distinctly
prescribed when the Militia should be disembodied.
To his mind, however, the prescription appeased suf-
ficiently distinct : for those Acts, its describing the
cases of public danger in which the Militia should be
embodied, naturally pointed out when they should be
disembodied—that when the cause of embodying
-them should cease, the effect shonid cease also. But
yet, according to the opinion of the Noble Secretary,
discretion was left to Government to determine the
time and circumstances in which the Militia should
be disembodied. He, however, would venture to as-
sert, that Ministers were not invested with any such
discretion. The law described the causes fur embody-
ing this force, and the discretion of Government was
limited by the existence of these causes. The Noble
Secretary, therefore, was under a complete miscon-
ception of the law. But the Noble Secretary was
not only misinformed as to law, but misinformed as
to fact. For history, to which the Noble Secretary
had thought proper to refer in support of his view of
the subject, was decidedly against him. From his-
tory, it appeared, that since the original institution
of the Militia, four cases had occurred in which that
force was called out and embodied :—First, In the
seven.years war ; And stikhough this country was, at.
the close of that war, cmppletely triumphant, it would
be recollected, that in the course of the war there was
reason to apprehend invasion; indeed, the design to'
invade us Watt actualli manifested by.the enemy, and
,under these circumstances the Militia was embodied.
The next case occurred .in. the course or the Ameri-
can war; but it•would tie remembered, that although
that war commenced in 1774, it was not until Ann-

rica was.joined by France, which had the power to
invade this country, and mail Spain :lso. which had- •
the means of asserting an invasion, manifested a ais•
position to enter into alliance with the enemy, that
oar Militia Establishment Was called out ; so that
four years had expired after the commencement of
the American war before it was attempted to embody
the Militia, and that notoriously in order to guard
against invasion, which there was hut too much rea-
son to apprehend from the actual appearance of the
combined fleet off our coast. The danger, indeed of
invasion, instead of decreasing, continued to increase&
up to the very conclusion of that unfortunate war ;
so that in these two cases, to guard against invasion
was the cause for embodying the Militia. Such was
the indisputable testimony of history, which the Noble
Secretary quoted in support of I.is opinion. Tire as
to the third case. it would hardly be disputed ; for,
without referring to written records, it was within the
recollection of our own time, that in 179 S the Militia
was called out, in order to guard against insurrection;
and the existence of that danger was not communi-
cated to that House merely on the assertion of a Mi-
nister, or through a passage in any individual's speech,
but on the authority of a Secret Committee, whose
Report was grounded upon a mass of evidence.—
That the cause assigned for calling out the Militia
at that day was well founded, he from personal know-
ledge could satisfactor:ly speak, and through the exis-
tence of that cause the Militia was embodied even
before the commencement of the war. Now as to
the fotirth case, the Nohle Secretary could himself
best. tell es to the cause of calling rut the Militia at
the commencement of the war which terminated with
the I tae peace. The Noble Secret try, %alio was then
the Minister of the ciorror, would, he apprehended,
hear out the assertion that the cause for calling out the
Militia at that time v .0 with a view to guard against
invas:on, which indeed the then Ruler of France
expressed his resolution to attempt, and actually made
prep tration to effect. Here were the only cases in
which the militia were embodied ti ice their original
institution, and all were comprehended v:itliin the
description tibia Noble Friend. Where then were to
he (ouni the 45 numetous instances which history a:-
fordc,!," :two ding to the assertion of l,e Notol.:occr. -
wry, in -wh:ch the Mlitia were called out when or e
Of the saes described by the Noble Mover had any
existence ?'' But leaving the Noble Secretary to re-
vise his historical quotation, he would ask upon ane-
ther part of his speech what was meant by the asset-.
Lion that Government were warranted in calling oLt
the militia when. veer the country was at war ? If it
teas meant that a state of war justified the embodying
of the militia without any reference to the apprehen-
sion of invasion or insurrection—then the t rinciple
might be pressed to warrant ill! calling out of this
force upon the existence of any war in India. But
the fact was, that no such pi iticple could for a mo-
ment bu maiot tined, an! it was his fullest, con.
'fiction that if the measure of Miirsters, which gave
rise to the motion, had no other grounds to stand
upon ill 111 those stated by the N thle Secretary, that
measure was not only not legal but grossly illegal.--
If there existed no ground of apprehension from the
Continent of Europe, and that apprehension was re-
moved by tire peace, what team could be assigned,
what necesshy could exist, for increasing the means
of an internal defence in the present undisturbed state
of the country ? Why then should the militia cone •
tinue embodied ? Witat danger or apprehension of
danger could be supposed to warrant such a measure.
The merchants had no doubt madelaud complaintsof
their apprehensions from the activity of American
cruisers, by which it was alleged dolt our ports were
neatly blockaded; but was it apprehended that there
was any danger of an invasion of this country from
America to make the embodying of any part of the
militia necessary ?• If so, then let recourse ba had to
Parliament to consider and allot tote proportion deemed
necessary, so that the ha: then shall be I.Orly distri-
buted among the several coanties. The Noble Se-
cretary had assured the 'use that no partiality was
intended in the allotment which how exists—that it
was through mere accident the militia of any county
had been disbanded, while that of another was
retained—and farther, that those c )unties whose re-
giments were retained in service, should be relieved
by the public purse, from the burthen of maintaining
the wive and famihes of. the militia-men. But did
these assurances afford an adequate remedy for the
evils complained of ? It was the duty of the Legials-
ture to interpoie upon sari' an occasion, not merely
to remove partial pecuniary burthens. but to remove
inequality of stonier. 'file pecuniary burthen was,
in fact, but a trang grievance, compared with the
inequality of personal service, which the measure
under discussion created. The Noble Lord concluded
with repeating his opinion, that if the country were
really so deplorable as to apprehend invasion from
America, arid that therefore the niiiiiia, or ail- part
of it, must continue to be embodied for ensuring our
domestic defeni.e, it was a S'lbje.l pi per fur ilk: con-
sideration of the House, how the hurthen of provid-
ing fur the force deemed necessary should be squally
divided?

Lord Viscount SIDMOUTH in explanatir ob.
served, that he had been much m.sunderstood by 04
,Noble Lord. He never asserted that the Militia Lass
were merely a restraint upon the prerogative of the
Crown troni cawing tyon alibis Majesty's so' jects fur
military aid, all he iiiealit to state was, that dime
laws were nitro a re sti.l.lit upon the Crown, so fa
as regaided the special cases under which done Vas
militia were to be continued embodied. The in.
stances qaOted by the Noble Lord had also been
quoted erroneously, the militia having been conti-
nued embodied in the Frenah and the Atnar,:au r
alter all imminent danger ut invasion ma t cease, .
With respect to the war likewise that c.,mine.):..4
in 1794 he was surprised to (lad. that the
Lord's memory had tailed him, it 'se..ui the
fact, that the S,:lect Committees allude t to hr roc
Noble Lord, did not inve:..igate the ..dirct
considerable pc:iu-2. i.a ► till the y.ar

after the militia were called out. In all the instances
indeed, the militia were continued embodied long
after all danger of invasion had ceased. In the late
war, for example, all danger of invasion had ceased
after the remnant of the French army returned from
Moscow, at which period, if the principles of the
Noble Lord were to have been adopted, the militia
ought immediately to have been disembodied. This
served to prove the erroneous construction which
the Noble Lord had put upon the Militia Laws—a
construction which was at variance with all the prac-
tice upon the subject. As to the supposition of the
Noble Lord that he (Viscount Sidmouth) had hinted
at any danger of invasion from America it was com-
pletely unfounded—all he had stated was, that the
foreign and domestic calls for military service ren-
dered it necessary that the militia should be continued
embedied, and however he might lament the incon-
'venience of the burden that thereby ensued, the exi-
gencies of the public servicesendered it imperative.
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE observed, that
what had been already said upon the question imme-
diately before the House; rendered it unnecessary for
him to enter at length upon that subject. He could
not, however, help observing upon the partiality which
appeared to have been observed in continuing some
regunents of militia embodied, and disembodying
others, and on the vacillation Which seemed to have
marked the conduct of Ministers upon this point.—
Whilst imetertent negociaticeis Jere under their care
abroad, airy seem to have nothing to do at home
but to attend to the military service, and yet upon this
subject the strangest inconsistency had occurred.—.
His Noble Friend had, he thought, given an .amply
sufficient answer to the Noble Viscount as to the le.
gality of 'continuing part of *the Militia embodied.
The Neble Viscount, however; :seemed to intimate
that this was to be so far rendered a permanent
mta-
sure, that a spacial Act of Parliament was to be pro-
posed to regulete it. Why this should take place
without some better reason being assigned for it, he
was at a loss to understand ' • certain he was, how-
ever, that the proceedings of Ministers in disembody.
ing some regiments of militia, and continuing others
embodied, ought to be looked to with a watchful and
jealous eye. The continuing the Militia embodied,
for instance, in the district of which his Noble Friend
(Earl Fiiewilliam) was the natural protector, was a
grievous burden, whilst in Leland it was far from
being a burden, it was looked up to as a service of
advantage and emolument, and afforded a considera-
ble patronage to the Government. It ought not,
however, to-be endured that the Government should
Convert into a, source of patronage this partial mea-
sure of continuing embodied a certain portion of the
bl litia. What were the actual intentions of Minis.
ter s, be knew trot, but certainly in Ireland there had
been a strange jumble of marching and counter.
=arching, order and counter-order. • Nothing could
be rune ridiculous, for instance, than their indecision
respecting' a tan military question. The cavalry
barracks at Cabir had been delivered up two years
ego in a perfect state, whilst in the barracks of Clon-
ntell, where the lath Dragocns were quartered, corn-
pleiats were made that they were not sufficiently ac-
.cdnimodated, and the infantry there also complained
tetee airy were too much pressed upon by the cavalry.
In easier to these complaints, it was intimated that
Government had had before them for three months a,
question respecting the racks and mangers, but had
not yet come to any determination upon it. Seriously,
heerCrer, some informaii in ought to be laid before the
*Jettse as to that state of the Continent, which, ac.
cording to the Noble Viscount, created the necessity
of this paitiJi measure, regarding the Militia. Upon
.this subject there never was a speech so remarkable
tor giving such little information as the Speech re-
cently Lielieered from the Throne, or as to any reason
or necessity for calling Parliament together, With
respect to Ireland, Ministers seemed to have forgotten
that titre was any such country forming a part of the
United Kingdom. Mut a word was said relating to
it. It neglit have been thought, that after what,
passed towerds the close of the last Session, something
tti ould have been said. At that period 'two Bills were
passed, ime of which was for the revival of the Act,
known by the name of the Insurrection Act; and the
other, for went of some more appropriate name, haci
received that of the Gentleman, 'who, as Secretary,
Managed the affairs of Ireland, and who ilists-sup-
.
posed to take a particular interest in the measure, and
was commonly called Mr. Peele's Bill. These mea-
sures were _proposed at a time when nearly all the
Irish Members were.absent, and without any of that
eiscussion or consideration which subjects of such ire.
1; a taller demanded. He wished to ask whether either
of these me 'sures had been carried into execution in
.eny lieu t.f Ireland, and if so, with what effect ? In a
part of Ireland with which ho was more immediately
connected, he lied objected to the introduction of the
operation of Mr. Peele's Bill, because there was no
previous experience of any such measure, whilst with
respect to the Insurrectioo Act they had experience of
the rperation of the former Act of that nature. It was
. gattisis ground that be objected to the preference given
by 'die Government to Mr. Peek's Bill. • He likewise
visited to ask Ministers a question relative to a sub.
• ject'whith they wished probably to forget altogether
week alluded.to the Catholic Question. The person
*hose situation it was alleged was the principal ob-
slack Vio the concessions to the Catholics, had shied
been restored' to his former territories and high
functions, through the exertions of Ministers; and he
wished to know whether, that main objection being
nnw done away, it was the intention of Ministerl to
propose any measure for the relief of his Majestyig
Catholic subjects ?
• The Earl of LIVERPOOL, with respect to the
Militia, oeservid that his Noble Friend (Lord Sid=
mouth) had been misunderstood with regard to the
bill intended to be proposed. It was by no means a
Permanent measure, as the• Noble Earl who had just
sat down seemed to suppose, but merely' this, that
for whatever time the Militia continued embodied
the counties and townships should be exonerated
horn the expense. He lamented as much as any one
the burden raid inconvenience to which individuals
were exposed byca-itinuing the Militia embodied,
but it might- be..relied upon that it wouldno longer
be. coutineed. than the extgeocies of the public service
required. With regard 1011'0and, he was not aware
that the Bills •4twavisich' she Nnble Earl had alludtd,
- had beedapphard rnarnthaa one instant, ; but he
was peri4ded. *at they Mid operated in th way in
t4ich*Sl,f shrlis ‘,ll,oll.laniedi namely, as preveii.

due meattlres; and that to them the tranquil state of
the country was in a great measure to be attributed. ,
With respect to the question regarding the Roman.
Catholics, the Noble Earl must be aware of what his
(Lord Liverpool's) sentiments were upon that point,
and that though he more particularly objected to the
proposed concessions to the Roman Catholics on the
ground of the then situation of the Sovereign of
Rome, yet that he had also other and strong objec.
tions to these concessions. As to the want of infor-
mation regarding the state of the Continent, it was
of course the inevitable result of the pendency of
ne-
gociations involving complicated and most important
interests, and dining the pendency of which it of
course followed that no information respecting them
could be communicated to Parliament.
• The Marquis. of BUCKINGHAM observed that
the Noble Viscount (Lord Sidmouth)had been singu-
larly unfortunate in his remarks on the historical de-
tails of his Noble Relative (Lord Grenville). The
Noble Viscount had said, that at the beginning of the
seven years-war there was no danger of invasion ;
now, the fact was, in 17.56 so great was the danger of
invasion, that German troops were called into this
country in the. contemplation of that event. As to
the -American war the NObli recount had answered
himself by stating, that there Wert. only WOO men in
the country at the time. In 1792, at the beginning
of the French war, it was true there was not much
danger of 'invasion, but the danger of insurrection,
which was one of tae contingencies st ited in the Act
as proper fur the exercise of the Royal prerogative
calling out the Militia, was imminent. The country
on that occasion were convinced of the necessity, and
gave credit to the Ministry for the motive. The mo-
tives now alleged were the internal and-external calls
for a military force. As to the necessity for troops to
provide (or the garrisons at home, to call out the
Militia for this purpose, while we were at peace with
all the Powers of Europe, and with a large regular
force not employed in active service, was a violation
of the law and usage respecting this force. And as
to the foreign calls for British troops the Prince Re-
gent's Ministers were not justified in coming to Parlia-
went with this plea, when they refused to comniuni-.
cate even the fact of their being continued on tilt
Continent since the conclusion of the peace. (Iloar.)'
As their Lordships were ignorant of any grounds on,
which British troops could be employed abroad, and`,
at peace not only with Europe but with every touts,'
try from which a possibility of invasion coutd arise,"
they Fad sufficient motives for agreeing to the motion.l
Lord GRENVILLE said he did not intend to
prolong the discussion on a subjeit on which his No,
ble relative had left him little to say, but to justify
himself from the charge of being mistaken in the his-
torical details which Fe had thought necessary!o bring;
to their Lordsliips' recollection. He never had as
serted that theComusittees respecting the calliog out
the Militia, In 1792, had been formed in that year;
but he bad mentioned those Committees as a proof
that danger of insurrection had ezisted..• The proceed.
ings of the Committees also turnished an answer to the
question which the Noble Viscount (Stdmouth) bad
triumphantly asked, whether the danger of insurreo.
Lion had not been iinniediately extinguished ? since it
would be seen a year after, from the details laid on
the tables of those Committees, that the danger had,
not disappeared. The result of the details which he
had adduced was, that the Militia. iu burner tunes,
had never been called out and embodied but undar-I
the danger of insurrection or invasion, and that when,
embo.fied it was never kept up but when we were at
war with powers within a few hours sail of our own
,:oasts. Did the Noble Viscohnt, when he denied that
there was a danger of invasion is 1778, remember thel
defenceless state of Ireland at that time, and the et-',
traordinarY measures to which, for the purpose ofl
guarding against invasion, the Govermir nt of that
country was obliged to resort ? Did he l',rget the im-
mense political consequences which were the results
if those measures ?. Did he forget that all our army
was at that 'time in America; that in Ireland there
were no regular troops; that in England there were
only 6000; that France, our enemy, was disengaged
from any contineetal quarrel ; that Spain was at li-
berty to employ its power against us ? It was in vain
to deny it—trio necessity for keeping up the Militia'
at present, arose solely from our maintaining a Lire
part of our regular force on the Continent. This resuilt
,tendered it necessary for the House to investigate
Avery branch of that subject—whether there was any
authority for such a proceeding—whether the circum-
itances of the present time justified it—and whether,
if the necessity and expediency were made manifest,
At full representation should not have been made to
Parliament, of a step which involved such an impor-
tant consequence, not merely as the N..bLe E.ul f
Liverpool) opposite had said, whether one county
fht,uld pay a kw pounds more than another—but
she par ial and unequal selection from among the
r subjects of this realnr, e f persons to be kept in time of
peace in military array, subjected to military command
and military punishment ?
The Mozion w..s negatived.
Butrisit ritooes ABROAD.

Th e Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that he
should, on Monday, move for an Address for the
Communication of the Engagements entered into by
this country with Foreign Powers, for the Main-
tenance of British Troops on the Continent. It would
not be necessary to enter into farther detail respecting
that motion, and he should merely move that their
Lordships be summoned for that day.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that he had stated
at the. close of the last Session of Parliament, that
there was an engagement in which this country had
stipulated to keep up a force on the Continent.—
From circumstances the ratification had not been re-
rceived by Government, though we bad ratified that
Treaty. He was not aware, therefore, that it would
be correct to lay the Treaty in form before Pdrlia•
went, but he had no doubt, but that without any mo.
Lion on the subject, he should be enabled to lay be-
fore the House the substance of the 'Treaty.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE thought it his
duty to persist in his notice, as he thought it would be
more convenient that any discussion on the subject
should take place on the day he had stated, though
probably the Noble Earl would be able to state grounds
to induce kim to withdraw or alter the form of his
motion. The Lords were then ordered tole sum-
moned on Monday next.
FAFTA
llnsfi
_Marquis of BUCKINGHAIIigan notice,
iitooka ou Monday novo fox *copy of the

proceedings tithe Court MartislotsCaptgo Bare Pay,
land the officers and man remaining, in consequence
of the destructions( oar fleet on Lake Erie Tile ob
ject of this motion was' not to throw any imputation
, on the officers and men who 114 been honourably ac•
I quitted, but to show the inadequateness of our force
on the Laks's at the time in question, to the protec-
tion of our Colutties.—Adjourned to Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. . ,
The SPEAKER informed the House, that In pursuance of
their resolution, the Address of the Howe had ben pre,ented
to his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, who hail delivered a
most gracious answer, thanking them for their loyal acid :Wilful
Addre.si the sentiment' it contained afforded treah proofs of
their attachment to hls Majesty's House and Government, arid
had greatly contributed to advance this empire to an *eminence
among the nations of the world.
Mr. WRO ri.ESLEY moved fin...conies of all Memorials and
Statements delivered to the Clerks of riot Peace for the counties
in England and Wales, relative to Charitable Dona:tom.—
. Ordered.

Mr. WARD brought up ast Accntmt of all outstanding Exche-
quer Bills for last year, and all Bills of Exchange for the Extra•
ordinaries of the Army.
Mr. MANNING pi esented a Petition from the London Dock
Company, praying for leave to bring In a Bill to amend the
London Dock Act.

Mr. CROKER brought up an account of the Navy Arrears.
After some conversaion between Mr. Tint);Le and the
CitAmcnt.t.oß of the ExcH EVIL R, it was agreed that the follow-
ing papers should be laid betore the House:
An account of unfunded Debt and Exchequer Bills for 11114.
An account of the number of Bank-oats in circulation on the
Ist of November, 1811.
An account of the net proceeds of the War Taxes.
An account of th', distribution at the Vote of Credit for the
service of the year 11t14.•
An account of the deficiency or surplus of the Consolidated
EuAd to April, 1814.
Mr. TIERNEY gave notice, that on Monday he should more
for certain paper; relative to the Civil

The CH-111%10E1.1.01t of the EXCHEQUER then etateal,
that he should dt:fer WA motion for toe erection of a Alouutueut
to General Ross, till Monday.

WAVY.

Mr. CROKER mnved for leave to bring in a Bill
to encourage and reward the Petty °dicers, Sea-
men, and Marines, for long and faithful SC:
He stated, that the object of the 4.:1 was to put the
two services of the Army and Navy as much as pos-
sible upon an equalay ; and he tfit,ught that the funds
!of Greenwich Hospital and of the chest united would
go a cunsider.ble way towards covering the expenses.
If any -dcticiency should arise, he truted that the
House. would think proper to supply it out of the
public money. At present, there was this difference
between the Army and the Navy—the whole ex-
pensei of the former were borne by the public, whereas
the expenses of the latter were defrayed by them-
selves—by the contributions Which they made to the
funds at Greenwich. From the peculiar character of
t:le war during the last* year, the services of the sea-
men and royal marines had been felt in a less striking
manner than those of the army ; but the exemplary.
conduct of the navy deserved the best thanks if' the
country, and the House had frequently expressed
their admiration and approbation of such conduct.
He ta usted therefore that the'lloase wouldcotitucin
the object of the BUJ.
Mr. WARD asked, if it were intended to make
any proviaions for halfilaylor Masters, Mates, and
Midshipmen ? •
Mr. CROKER replied, that the subject had been
considered, and. found in be utterly impracticable..--
A liberal promotion, however, would be made of

such as were found to be entitled to that reward ; and
others would be maintained in full pay, and kept in
his Majesty's ships that might be in commission. It
was intended, that the pensions to be g:•anted to the
marines should be the same as time given to the
army, an& that the seamen should be placed on the
same footing, as near as the difference of the services'
would allow. A registry would be kept of the sea-
men, and they would be called to come to the service
of their country, with a forfeiture of pension if they
refused. Masters, mates, and midshipmen, and, in-
deed, even lieutenants, would be allowed to enter
into the merchant service, without prejudice to their
rights in the navy. He then brought up the Bill,
which was read a first time, and ordered to be printed
and read a second time on Monday.
comß•r-MARTIAL ON COLONEL QUENTIN.

Colonel PALMER rose and said he was extremely
sorry to have to call the attention of the 1-louse to
a subject in which it might he th,,tight that he wa.
actuated by personal m,tives : he alluded to the
pr.iceedings of the recent Courc-Maitial on Colonel
Quentin. As far as related to himself, there was
nothing in those proceedings which affected him ;
for he trusted that his own character stood so per
tectly unimpeached by them that it needed no justi-
fication. (Near, hear, hear.) It was for the sake
of others, not for his o .vo, that he now addressed

the House. Ha was aware upon what delicate
ground he stood ; and, at the same time he was
ansious to do justice where justice was due ; he
should take care to avoid every topic which did not
necessaiily connect itself ss ith his intentions. His
, only object at present, however, was, to move for
the Proceedings of that Court• Martial ; with the
sentence he had nothing to do, and meant not
to complain of it ; but he would take upon
sell to say that thete were observations made by the
Members of that Court Martial which were not war-
ranted bY, nor founded in fact. He should abstain
at present from any statement of whit bd had to
offer, and in the interim should only move for the
proceedings. Perhaps he might find it necessary to
ground a motion upon those proceedings, but he did
not wish to pledge himself to any such course. He
was afraid he could not, consistently with the Rules
of the House, make the motion at that moment—
[" Ta, you can e was exclaimed by several Manbau.]
11 so, he should then beg leave to move, " That the
Proceedings of the Court Martial upon Colonel Quen-
tin be laid upon the Table of that House."
The motion being handed up to the Chair, the
SI'EAKER expressed some doubt as to the propriety
of its form. He apprehended it would be more regu.
lar if ccoverted into an humble Address to his Royal
Highness the Prince Regent, the House, however,
would assist him, if wrong, in his recollection. •
The motion was withdrawn, and shaped in the form
of an Address, which being read and seconded,
Mr. MANNERS SUWON said, he felt the
greatest astonishment in observing, that while the Ho-
nourable Member was hesitating whether to inhibit
an immediate motion or a notice to the House, he
had been cheered on by some Members to the former.
proceeding, and he presumed they, at least, were
convinced by what the gallant Colonel had advanced,
that the House sought to accede to his wishes. He'
•

'hoped, therefore, he should not be considered
prematurely entering into the discussion in what he
had to offer to their attention. It appeared to hie:,
indeed, that no sufficient ground whatever had beers
laid for granting immediately the object of the
Member, and, he put it to the feelings, to the judgrr,er,
of the House, whether' there were not thousand rr.o.
tives for negativing a proposition 'to submit the pro.
ceedings of any Court, whether military or civil, to
that House, unless very strong reasons were produced,
for such a proceeding. He, for one, certainly thoireht
It would be most inconvenient to the public set vice.
He did not mean to say that it might not he very
proper under some circumstances to yield such inim.
'ma!ion ; but here no arguments had been employed,
no fact. stated, no motives held cot, fortbeadriptioa•
of the present measure. It surely would not be cop-
tended that the legal proceedingas of any Conit; wire
to be produced, as a matter al course, "because any
Honourable Member might think proper to come
down to that House, and move tot diem,- tipnit'die
mere asset tion that they were njuit• to• dnit uv that
person, without any information by which tJey could:
guide their conduct. If he understood the Iftinout-
able Gentleman rightly, he said that when the docu-
ments *ere produced, he should then be'able to slic,r
good grounds fur calling frit them. -This was ter.
candy reversing the ordinary proceedings of. alit
House. If the Honourable Gentleman fel' iuctited
to Withdraw.hls motion, And-convert it, into aitice.
it would. then be for the consideration of Vie
when that notice was brought forward, teAstermine
upon what course it should pursue; but if he presaed
't now, in the absence of all reason and argumeetiOr
,acceding to it, he should feel it No ditty, 'he
-ttitMght.it would be the dirty of the House to edirltq.
•Ctirmet PALMER said; that as the Right Hon.
-Gentlianan,wished fie some'facts that might
41ustily
i'the House in complying with his- motion, be worM
proceed to state-4efllers woffral
"• (iv: atofice
_The SPEAK E It observed, that of course any thing
which the Ron. Member might deem important as
illustrating his motion, It certainly was torhpesent
trim to deliver.
Colonel PALMER laid; that he was tinder. lire
necessity of being absent from the country in a tor
days, as it would be necessary for him to be at Piris.
It must be some days before the Member‘tould read
the proceedings, after they were put in ~session of
them, and the shortest delay WAS therefore of irniiiirt-
ance to him. lint if any other Member would under
take to give the notice, it iniglifequally accomplish
what he wished.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he hal beei'detieed:l4
an Honourable Friend of his, the.! 'eMbei'for Hen".
fordshire (Mr. Brand), to give a .notite, 'situilar. to
that of the Honourable Colonel's, for Tuesday:riest.
It would certainly be desirable, however, that hi
should he present at the discussion.
Mr. TIERNEY suggested, that the Honourable
Member might be allowed to make his statement,
tho Ugh. the House need nut come to any decisive
upon the question on the present occasion.
Colonel PALMER said, he did not wish'tcr enter
into the merits of the question, till the papers reek-4
produced.
Mr. PONSONBY asked, if Tuesday would be.
early enough fdt the Honourable Member.
Colonel PALMER replied, that hetwat extremelt
anxious to bring the motion forward on Monday, 4
the House would permit him. goOday..was accord.
ingly fired, and the notice was meted for that day:
eavgitss to 44611'5t.
Mr. MARTIN asked the Chitdellorof the-Exchem
quer, whether any eitablistanetreivis intended to be
made for her Royal Highness the Princess Charlotte
The CHANCELLOR of tble EXCHEQUER
said, that he bad' not recelied !Iffy 'commands from
the Prince Regent on that ittbtjtet;
The House then went,inutas iolivnmittee of Supply.
coltratTrai f 4•11 &01. Y.
The. CHANCELLOR.: of `the EXCHEQUER
moved, that the House should resolve itself into a
Committee of Supply, to consider the Speech of the
Prince Regent.
Mr, PONSONBY wished to know whether it was
in the intention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to
give a general statement of the financial condition of
the country before he moved for any supply ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that he certainly intended to give such a gene.
ral statement as to the best of his judgment would be
necessary.
Mr. PONSONBY insisted, that the fullest inform
'nation was necessary before the House ought to be
called upon to grant large supplies.
The House then went into the Committee, and
Mr. BROCIDEM (the Chairman) read that part of the
Regent's Speech which related to the arrears.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that as he should now merely move that a sup-
ply be granted, he did not apprehend that be need
enter, upon- any minute details : hereafter, when he
should apply for particular sums, he would furnish
the appropriate information.
Mr. HORNEIk observed, that as the speech al-
luded to large acrews,..nd as it appeared from a blip
”f paper on the table, that ten millions were due on
the army account; independently of the nine millions
which were last
.session anticipated, he hoped the
House would not continue to vote million after mil-
lion, without requiring the most minute and ample
information.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
replied, that it certainty was Iris intention to Inman
every detail in his power ; that exact details, espe-
cially as to the army service, could not be cone
niently given, till the. close of the year ; he sholi',.•,
hirivever, be able to present a statement of consid..:-
able exactness as to the expenditure of the sevetal
branches of the military service, whether in FratrCup
or' Spain, or the Netherlands. This was ail lie
could do. He allowed that' the expense' pad bete
enormous; yet he thought, if it wert compared
with the splendid advantages acquiredc, no nun
would say that they had been bought.* iho high
a price. The put-goings of the war In Spain and
France were immense out of the nineteen mil-
lions, much the greater part had been applied to dust
iservice ; •great arrears had been found' to be due to
:the army, which, for want of the proper resotu,;,s of
.exchange could out possibly be defrayed till the upen•
'ing of the peace. I3efore that time k was as much as
-he Conn* couldido to meet the current expenses.
Mr. BARING doped that the House would pal