Star.
London, England, 1823-06-20 00:00:00

ri-c in beneficent acts to Ireland .as the period since
Ommencement of his late Majesty's reign. They
c
d been told that these were bet acts of justice; and
was disposed as fully as the Noble Lord to admit
be
at they were so. But must there not be circum-
attached to those acts which deserved that
rages
Id e lookd with more favourable
het 'I)"
Fo
? r inbstance,e in theupon grants of public money
:bid been made, England did more for Ireland
than die would have done for herself —(Hear,hear).—
;,1 es ect to the Government of the Noble
Theri, p
Lord, at present Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, he was
;II;-a that it should be tried by the purpose which
--ad been held out to be the object of his policy. At
t same time no one would say that Ireland was to
De aired by a piece of magic, and that by a stroke
r; a ,and disturbance was to be for ever banished.
man would ever lAO out such prospects with the
system of laws ever framed. It must be years
-fore the fruitsof Marquis Welle,ley's improved ad-
:.;ini,tration could be seen. The measures which had
.030 been held out as in contemplation of the Noble
lord were four, and these we: e destined to go a great
nay towards those evils corrigible by law. But the
ini;fortune of. Ireland was, that a great part of her
uere not corrigible by law. The measures,
roils
vever, were, a new system of police, which, if
eared and executed, must ultimately obviate many
rconveniencies, and which involved another measure
;.; the regu'ation of the NlagiAracy. This was a
.;.,st important object, for it went to eradicate thcke
in the lower Cow ts having the administra-
i nf law between rich arid pour. The next were
Tithes, and a new system of Distillery Laws.
7;•5e were the four amendments which the Govern-
r e.ltof Ireland held out. The new police system had
te:;lalleaLty ereablislied in many coumies, and pro-
ehed great ad v intages, if generally carried into effect.
71 amendment in the Magistracy had been begua
great effect, and gave considerable satisfaction,
Ltd the Irish Government did all they could to ma-
ter teir plans. L tst year, in all the discussions, they
t.ll been told that the state of the tithes and the dis-
,i!erf I evs were the great grievances of Ireland. But
rii year they were taunted with bringing forward
e?erfect measures with reference to the tithes.—*
IVidt respect to the tithes, he desired to know wile-
eera voluntary or compulst.‘ry commutation was de-
led? He eished for the former, but considered that
rery principle of justice would be violated by the
;ter. He was persuaded and satisfied that the thing
eight be fairly and amicably arranged, for he was
ert the Clergy of Ireland we; e willing fairly to
Stet the tithe-payers on this question. lie wished it
nbe remernbel-ed that every man who purchased an
ante in Ireland, purchased but nine-tenths of that!
estate, and the remaining tenth did not belong to
but. He eulogised the moderation of the Irish Clergy,
1;1 were the most lenient exactors of rent. In con-
elsion, he rnairtained that the Government had made
led the pledges it lied given. With respect to the
pivileges enjoyed de fac!o by the Catholics in Ireland,
acgged to state that it formed part of his Ma-
' •y's instructions to every Lord Lieutenant to se-
to the Roman Catholics the full enjoyment of all
.privilee,es to which they were entitled. This had
the charge to every Secretary for Ireland, and had
ins been most anxiously looked to by Ministers.
*tics were admitted into many of those bodies
ha which they were formerly excluded. They now
armed part of the Revenue Boards, and in one of
fern a Catholic Gentleman had been chosen Deputy
o:tie:et:l. It had been stated, that out of 2540 of-
fer, ite,, which Catholics were eligible by law to hold,
bit 106 were actually held by Roman Catholics.
Tr disparity was certainly great, but then those who
tilted of the Catholics of Ireland amounting to
6,!,°0,000 out of a population of 7,500,000, ought
tobear in mind, that if this calculation were at all
meet, forty-nine fiftieths of the property of Ireland
vas in the hands of the Protestants. When this was
remembered, and wheti it was considered that the
Catholics, holding but one fiftieth part of the pro-
perty of the country, must of necessity be unfitted,
by wanting education, for many of the offices which
the law allowed them to hold, the disparity would
art be so wonderful as it might at first seem. In some
tithe counties of Ireland,Catholics were chosen to serve
asGrand Jurors ; when, if the same individuals were
hotestants, they would not be chosen. This arose
tram there being a wish to place some Catholics in that
situation, and there being but few to choose from,
those were preferred, for being Catholics, who would
aaotherwise have been selected on such an occasion.
Asto the charge that the law was not equally ad-1
ministered, he deified the charge, and maintained
that as far as education and other circumstances
toad permit, no difference was made between Ca-
tholics and Protestants. In most countries where dis-
twbances occurred, the efforts of the disaffected were
directed against the Government, or the institutions
of the country. He denied the insurrectionary at-
tempts and the combinations in Ireland appeared to
have such objects in view. In the midst of the dis-
turbances which occurred last year at Limerick, it
had been asserted, that if the King could have ap-
peared there, he would have been received with every
possible demonstration of loyalty. The present com-
binations were against property, whether possessed by
Protestants or by Roman Catholics. The Catholic
suffered as much as the Protestant. The instances
were not so many, because, as he had already stated,
the Catholic Proprietors were few ; but, in propor-
lina to their numbers, they had suffered as much ;
and a more determined spirit of hostility had been
manifested towards the wealthy Catholic than to-
'cards the Protestant. They objected as much to the
dues claimed by the Ministers of their own Church,
as to those demanded for the Protestant establishment,
aad the general service of the State. The insurrection
which broke out in Connaught while the Duke of
Sealed was inireland, was produced by discontent
on account of the dues claimed by Catholic Priests.
A similar spirit now prevailed. He could not avoid
attributing much of the evil which was the subject
of complaint to the extent to which absenteeship was
Carried in Ireland. It was his opinion that Ireland,
though sonic evils were complained of as springing
flout tire Uaion, derived more benefit than she sus-
tained injury from that measure. Is was so with
Scotland, and he keew of no reason why it should
tact be the same with Ireland. What he wished to
do was to infuse into Ireland English notions and
English feelings, so as to create in the different classes,
the same regard' for the well-being of each other
Itkieh existed in this country. lie vindicated the.

principle of the English Poor taws and without de-
mending their immediate introduction into Ireland,
he thought they ought not to be hastily dismissed from
consideration. He shewed that they connected rich
awnhdi
crovra,
sannodwi
hn
et rroe d
ma coerde at
obebtet edress
iyrsetde mth
than
nf
in rce,
po
Ire-
land. He opposed the 'notion, because he considered
it to contain an untrue description of Ireland. If
any particular grievance was pointed out as calling
for enquiry, he should be ready to agree to a motion
for that purpose, but the proposition before the
House was entirely one of generalities, and by its
generality it defeated its own object, and he therefore
telt called on to vote against the Noble Duke's motion.
The Bishop of KILDARE vindicated the parochial
incumbents of Ireland from the aspersions which had
been thrown out against them. He denied that they
had been required by law to open schools at their own
expense, but declared them to have greatly exerted
themselves to promote education in that country, and
to improve the condition of the people.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN explained.
The Earl of CA RNARVON thought if the Noble
Lord were sincere in wishing to infuse English feel-
ings into Ireland, that no time ought to be lost in en-
tering upon that enquiry which was now called for.
The Noble Earl wished to infuse this spirit into Ire-
land by promoting union between the parochial au-
thorities and the people, and he had spoken of the
advantages which Scotland enjoyed from such a state
of things, but lie forgot that Scotland had a Church of
her own in accordance a hit the feelings of the people,
which had cot been subjected to our Episcopal Go-
ye: nment. It was in a time of profound peace that
their Lordships ought to endeavour to make those
improvements in the condition of the people, which
were alike essential to the present prosperity and fu-
ture safety of. the nation. It would be difficult by
any act of conciliation at once to recover the lost af-
fections of the people of Ireland; but, it that House
manifested a disposition to do them justice, and to
efface the recollection of the past, much might yet be
achieved. He should, therefore, support the motion
of the Noble Duke, as he hoped a majority of their
Lordships would, for it was his opinion that such a
decision would do more towards tranquillity than all
the expedients hitherto recommended. The people
of Ireland were oppressed and rendered desperate,
and he verily believed that such was the state of the
country, that if 20,000 men were landed there, the
existing Government would be overthrown.
Their Lordships then divided, when the numbers were—
Contents - 43
Proxies - - - - 16— 59
Non Contents - - 66
Proxies - - 39-105
Majority - -
The House adjourned at a Quarter before Two this Morning.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
A new Writ was moved and ordered for the town of Hert-
ford to elect a Representative to serve in Parliament in the room
of Lord CRANIORNE, now Marquis of Sstisst:ny,
Mr. BIRCH presented a Petition from the Manufacturers of
the Town and County of Nottingham against the Bill for repeal-
ing the Acts for punishing combinations amongst workmen.
Mr. A BERC ROM BY presented a Petition from 9720 inha-
bitants of Middlesex, praying that the jurisdiction of the County
Court of NI icidl..set should be extended from the enforcement of
debts not exc.eding 40s. to the amount of XlO, as a great conve-
nience to trade, and a mode of diminishing the excessive expenses
of law proceedings when instituted to enforce small debts.
Mr. BENETT, of Wilts, presented a Petition signed by Ro-
bert Gourlay, and other paupers, in the pariah of Wylie, in the
county of Wilts, against certain provisions in the Bill now pend-
e
in., for amending the Poor Laws; the particulars against which
the Petitioners more especially prayed, were those which pro-
vided that paupers should be bodged, and be obliged to serve In
the militia.
Mr. WILMOT HORTON, in answer to a question from
Mr. Marryatt, said, there was at present a Commission of Inquiry
in the West Indies, who were to proceed to Trinidad, and to
inquire how far the provisions of British law could be extended
to that Settlement.
Mr. 11 ERRIES, in moving the third reading of the Assessed
Taxes Bill, observed, in answer to a question from Mr. Hub-
house, that it had never been the intention of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer to exempt front duty windows on the ground-
floors of houses, except such as were actually shop windows, whe-
ther in courts or passages.—Bill read a third time and passed.
The Barilla Duties Bill went through a Committee.—Report
to-morrow.
The Poor's Settlement Bill was read a second time, and or-
dered to be committed on Monday next.
Mr. BENNET presented a Petition from Heabam, against
the continuance of Slavery in our West India Islands.—Read
and laid on the table.—The Honolarable Gentleman also pre-
sented a Petition from the Owners and Occupiers of Land in
the County of Northumberland, relative to the Duties on Spi-
rits. They prayed the House to remove the restrictions on the
distillation of British Spirits of the first and finest qualities.—Or-
dered to be printed.
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
Nlr. JAMES presented a Petition from 3,107 of
the inhabitants of Newcastle, complaining that they
were altogether unrepresented in Parliament. He
nished the Hon. Member for Bramber was in his
place, that he might induce him to advocate the cause
of the white slaves in this country, who he feared had
feweL advocates in that House than the black slaves
in tbrWest Indies. He might be answered that there
was no parallel between the cases of the slaves in the
West Indies and those whose situation in this pre-
tended free-country he was now deploring. But was
the driver with his whip, in the West Indies, a degree
worse than the exciseman at home, whose goading
lash was constantly irritating the poor people? This
persecutor was seen at one time snatching from them
the soap.which was to cleanse away the foulness pro-
duced by their incessant toil—seizing the grain of
salt that was to savour their scanty meal, or depriv-
ing them of that light which perhaps it would be
lenity not to admit, as it could only discover the ex-
tent of their wretchedness. Let him not, then, be ac-
cused of making a false comparison between the
slaves of the West Indies and the slaves of a country
which boasted so touch of its freedom and prosperity.
Let it not be said that he was exaggerating the case
of the one, or making light of the miseries of the
other. Could the slaves of the West Indies step into
the situation of the enslaved peasantry of Great Bri-
tain to-morrow, "by Heaven, said Mr. James, " I
believe the exchange would not be in their favour"
—(A laugh). The Hon. Secretary for the Admiralty
might laugh, but let the Hon. Gentleman look to the
state of Ireland. In what quarter of the world were
slaves to be found more cruelly oppressed,rnore deeply
degraded than the people of that kingdom—a king-1
dem which abounded so much in the elements ofl
prosperity? Well might he apply to that unhappy
country the lines of the Poet—
,. Ste how kind Heaven adorns that 'fertile land, •
And scatters plenty with a wasteful hand,
But what avails her unesbausted stores.
• • • •
While proud opprensiouanidst her-valleys reign% •
And lawless grants wither all her plains?"
The Petitioneri cumplainedof the errormons weight.

of taxes they were compelled to bear, the iniquitous
laws by which they were ground to support an over-
grove .system of:corruption, and an alarmingly nu-
merous army to keep down those who supported
them. They suggested as remedies to these evils,
the revision of the laws alluded to; a radical reform
in the representation, annual instead of• septennial
Parliaments, and vote by ballot. Ile then moved,
that the Petition be brought up.
Sir ISAAC COFFIN believed the Member who
last addressed the House, and his Petitioners,laboured
under positive mental derangement, or else they never
would have concocted such extraordinary fallacies
together in a speech or a Petition— (Lourl laughing).
He had been himself all over the world, not even ex-
cepting that paradise of liberty, America : and he had
never seen so many contented looking faces or fat
persons anywhere a 4 in this miserable and unhappy
' country. If he could believe but ,he half of what
had been just told them, .he should feel that he had
nothing kit to relieve him from this load of life but
to drown himself in the river, which was near enough
for the purpose, or hang himself outright (Laughing).
Here Mr. JAMES brought up the Petition to the
table, and, on leaving it, drew it out at full length,
which almost extended to the bar of the Eloise. A
burst of laughter followed. The SPEAKER, however,
requested the Hon. Member would be pleased to
bring it up. He then collected its folds, and pre-
sented it to the Clerk, who read it at length, not with-
out creating a laugh at frequent intervals.
Mr. JAMES said, that he had only to observe in
reply to the Hon. Knight (Sir 1. Coffin), that those
contented and fat people he had seen here must have
been those living on the taxes. He moved that the
Petition should lie on the table.