Star.
London, England, 1822-03-23 00:00:00

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of the Bill against Bea;out gatelike. But he was
plaining kind. How, then, were the People to make astonished to heat when his on. Friend stated tisk
at a PaldiesMeeting, a
known
of such things as vindictive prosecutions for political cheer from the Hon. Gentlemen opposite; because,
purposes ?—howe they to complain of the abuses at the period when what were called. the hole-and-
In theadmlthistra of justice, or the undue severity corner Addresses were circelating, t was the often-
of local authorities? If Petitions embracing.allega- repeated statement of the other side, that the holding
tions of such a nature, however true they mightbe,
be, of a Public Meeting was not the only way in which
were unfit for that House to receive, then there was the sense of the People could be taken ; the public
' an end to petition for grievances; for if that against sentiment, they said. could be as effectually known
which the Petitioners in this instance complained.
by the circulation of a statement for signatures, as
was not a grievance, he should be glad to know what Het were offered in the most public way—(fiear
he ).
was one. He owned
he did not expect to hear e was, therefore, not prepared for the expressions
h which
language of a body of men, labouring, as these Pe- of triump. were uttered :by the sante Gentle-
titioners did, nncler a sense that great injustice had men who maintained this doctrine, when they heard
been committed against a subject, examined with the that this Petition was not prepared or agreed to at a
microscopic eye of criticism. He was sure, that no Public Meeting. He was a little surprised too to
man who took a fair view of the Petition, would come hear the language of the Hon. Member for Leices-
io the conclusion that the persons signing it intended terll (Mr. Mansfield Petition were i e could ot suppose thatapply o
the
to insult, or show any disrespect to the House. The e 8
House of thennte to t
House of Commons ought at all times to throw wide him, or any other person in the House,who were not
open their doors to the Petitions of the People, how- exposed to the charge of corruption. He felt it ne-
ewer uncourtly their language might be to those Gen- cessary to do justice to the consistency of the Right
tlemen who had recently taken their seats on a dif- Hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board of Con-
ferent side of the House from that where they were troul (Mr. Wynn). He was prepared to bear testi-
in the habit of sitting. • • • mony to the fact, that the Right Hon. Gentleman,
Mr. MANSFIELD said, he would appeal to the when sitting on the opposite side of the House to
honourable feelings of the Gentleman who presented that on which he now sat, was always the advocate
the Petition, and ask him if this was a Petition which for closing, rather than opening the doors of the
ought to be received by the House? He (Mr. Mans- House to any Petition which contained words calcu-
field) was anxious of being one who had been sent to laced to offend the delicate fancy, or squeamish taste
that House by the unbiassed choice of a most respect- of any Gentleman of the House. He admitted that
able 'body of men, and no man could be prouder than the words were strong ; but when the facts were also
he was of the honour conferred by them. He had, strong, he hoped that the House would not be over
since he became a Member of that House, given his' rigid in examining the terms in which the sentiments
votes in a manner that perhaps might not be in ac- of the Petitioners were conveyed. And they would
cordance with the sentiments of the Hon. Gentle- the more readily extend this indulgence to the Peti-
men on the other side, but he could assure the tioners on this occasion, for they were chiefly of the
House, that his votes were never dictated by corrup- middling class—men who were not in the liabitwhen
tion—(Hear).—Under such circumstances, he felt their feelings were much excited, of charging them-
himself called upon, in justice to himself—in justice selves with examining whether or not their espies-
to his constituents, to set his face against a statement, sions ought to be more limited. It was not to be sup-
charging him, in common with the other Members posed by such men that they were stating anything
bf the House, with corrupt practices. which would excite the strong displeasure of the
Mr. lIOIIHOUSE felt surprised that the Hon. House, when they alluded to the practice of seat-sell-
Member who just sat down should consider himself ing, seeing it was acknowledged not only by many
as pointed at by the allegations of this Petition. The eminent persons in the country, but by the Members
lion. Member had nothing to fear—" his withers of that House— ( Hear ).—The expressions of the
were unwrung." To him the charges of corruption Hon. Baronet (the Member for Carlisle) had been
did not reach—he was guiltless of the offence of seat• alluded to, and it was observed he had not been
selling. But however innocent and worth many called to order. He himself heard a Noble Lord in
persons in that house might be, surely nobody ever that House state the market-price of a seat in Parlia-
doubted that there was such a thing as corruption of ment—Es,ooo ! Lord Cochrane was the Noble Lord
Parliament; and the charge had been frequently who stated it, and yet he was not called to order.—
made in that house and listened to with patience.— In addition to this, he might allude to the traffic of
It was only a few days ago that an Hon. Baronet on a seat charged on a Noble Marquis opposite, then
the other side attempted to justify the practice of Lord Castlereagh, which was about to become noto-
corruption on the Ministerial side, by imputing a rious. When the Petitioners heard this—and further,
similar pi actice to that of the Opposition, and yet no when they heard it stated by one of the most eminent
one called him to order. Not long since a Minister men in the country, Mr. Pitt, that the corruption of
of the Crown, in his place in Parliament, stated that the House was notorious—when they heard all this,
there were five or six Gentlemen on the Opposition he trusted that the Petitioners would be excused if
side of the House who had obtained seats in Parlia- they expressed similar opinions in strong language.
meat by improper means, and that it was necessary —He could not suppose that the object of the Peti-
to have five or six on the other side to balance their tioners was to insult the (louse. They had in view, in
influence, and yet he was not called to order. When, one word, the liberation of Mr. llunt, who, they be-
therefore, corrupt practices were so notorious and lieved, was sentenced to an unjust, undeserved term
acknowledged, it was a little too squeamish in the of imp isonnient—(lfear).—lf they had used strong
House to refuse receiving a Petition which embraced language iii praying for the interference of the House,
'an allegation to the same effect. Ile agreed with he regretted because it would be a pity that the
some of his Hon. Friends, that the Petition might be claims of Mr. Hunt on the consideration of the House
conceived in more measured terms • but he must should not come before them, supported by the au-
deny that the House of Commons could be hurt by thority of such a body of men as were those Peti-
any allegation which was not true. “ Words," the tioners, because a few indiscreet expressions had been
proverb said, " broke no bones"—no harm could be used by them in their Petition. He confessed that
done except by a statement of the truth. lithe alle- he thought, as a general principle, it would be wise
gations were untrue, no harm was done, and if they to let the People state their complaints without re-
were true, let the House correct itself. He was sus- striction ; and it would be more manly in the House
prised to hear from the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. to adopt the most liberal construction of the People's
Wynn) that expressions of similar import bad never opinions, than to check them every moment by taking
been used in any Petition to the House before. Did some verbal objections to their statements. Ile trusted
the Right Hon. Gentleman remember the Petitions that the two of his Majesty's Cabinet Ministers,whom
of the Friends of the People, in which the practice he saw just come into the Houseaeould take the libe-
and extent of seat-selling were offered to be proved ral side of the question, and vote with him for having
at the bar of the house? Mr. Burke and Mr. Pitt. the Petition laid on the table.
were then Members of the House—and he was sure Mr. PEEL said that it had not been his intention,
the latter would be held in respect by the Hon. Gen- on coming into the House, to take any part in this
tlemen opposite—and yet neither of these personages discussion, but having been directly appealed to by
called the mover of the Petition to order. If the the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, as one
champ of corruption had been put forward against of the two Members of Administration who just
any individual, then indeed the Petition would have came in, Ire felt it his duty to offer a few observations
been objectionable. With respect to the other part upon the subject before the House. He was not in
of it. it appeared to him that the Petition attacked the House when the petition was read, but he believed
not the Courts of Justice, but the prosecutors in po- that the copy which he held in his hand was authen.
Btical cases ; and be believed that it was not con- tic, as it happened to be that which the Hon. Gentle.'
trara to usage to impute to the immediate promoters man himself (Mr. Lambton) had just parted with.
cf these prosecutions improper motives. As to Mr. After carefully attending to the terms of the Peti-
Hunt, he had thought that a great number of the tion, he owned he could not come to the conclusion
Members of the House were of opinion that he was that there was no intention shewn by the Petitioner's
treated in a manner that was not intended by his to insult the House. Ile agreed with the lion. Gen-
sentence; hut as that subject %timid in a short time tleman opposite, that nothing was more imprudent
come before the House, be would not now take up than for the House to check the expression of the
their time by any observations upon it. He thought people's complaints, when they were presented to
that some allowante ought to be made to the Yeti- them in the form of Petitions ; but, on the other hand,
tioners for the god feeling they displayed ; they he trusted to the lion. Gentleman's candour to admit
ought to get credit with the House for disinterested to him that it would be still more inexpedient in the
zeal in behalf of one whom they thought to be op. House not to draw some limit to the expressions to
pressed. It would be unfair to examine too strictly be employed in addressing that Mouse. The Hon.
die language of men acted upon by such feelings, or Gentleman would surely admit to him that it was
spew that they could be offended at the imputations possible that Petitions might come before them couched
of the Petition, since by. doing so they only declared in language which it was not fit to present to that
the truth of the charge. He was surprised to hear House ; and if so, was it not expedient that some line
that an lion. Member below him could have so should be drawn, beyond which the expressions of Pe-
mistaken the nature of the Petition as to suppose titions ought not to go ? It was not merely their dig-
that it was the Petition of any other persons than pity that the House ought to feel interested about on
the undersigned. such an occasion ; there were other trusts equally de-
Sir M. W. RIDLEY, in explanation, stated that manding their care. They were bound to see that
he had not attempted to throw any obstacle in the there should be no abuse of the privilege of petition;
*ay of the Petition, or to say that it ought not to be for nothing could be more prejudicial to the fair ex-
received. All he wished to convey to the HoUse was, ercise of the tight of petition—nothing could be more
that there was a great body of the inhabitants of fatal to its existence than the abuse of it. It must,
Newcastle who were anxious to have it known that therefore, be admitted that some rule ought to be laid
this Petition was not proposed at a Public Meeting, down—some line drawn, beyond which the language
and that there was no opportenity given to the infra- of petitions should not be allowed to pass. What was
the language in this case?—A studied attempt not
balms to state their opinions upon it
Mr. LAM BTON thought it necessary to state that only to cast obloquy on the House, but on the most
he had no idea of the Petition being on foot until he valuable institutions of the country. The Petitioners
received notice to present it. It was quite true that charged Government with instituting vindictive pro-
wls was not a Petition proposed at a Public Meeting, secutions for political offences, add, by insinuation,
and there were many reasons why a Public Meeting cast a slur on the administration of justice. They
could not be held for the purpose. There was not stated, in express terms, tbat the punishment due to
time for a Meeting to take place before the period of Mr. Hunt's offence was extended and aggravated, be-
vie motion fixed by the Hon. Baronet, the Member cause he was the known advocate of Parliamentary
tor Westminster ; and, in addition to that ground, Reform. Was it possible that any persons could coin-
there were the obstacles and embarrassments against mit such a sentiment to paper without knowing that
Meetings entailed on the country, by the enactment, it was inc,oasisteut with truth? If the House were to

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