Star.
London, England, 1814-05-14 00:00:00

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redemption of the national debt during the OM pe-
riod.—Ordered.
Mr. BENNET moved that the accounts presented
to the House respecting the Civil List be printed.—
Ordered.
Sir FREDERICK FLOOD stated, that it was
no longer his intontion to bring forwar.d a measure
for the assimilation of the Election Laws of Ireland
to those of England. .
- --

CATHOLIC BOARD.
Mr. KNOX, seeing the Right Hon. Secretary for
Ireland in his place, observed that he was no doubt
well acquainted with the late proceedings of the Ca-
tholic Board. It was his opinion that Government
ought to take every sep to put down an evil which
excited alarm in the minds of every well wisher to
the prospoity of Ireland ; and he wished to know
what it was the intention of Government to do in
this business ?
Mr. PEELE said the subject was at present under
the consideration of the Executive Power ;..but he
did not feel that he could at present give any atftwer.
Mr. KNOX said, a large proportion of the Pro-
testant population of Ireland were deeply interested
in this matter.

NAVY ESTIMATES.
The House having formed itself into a Committee
of Supply—
Mr. W. DUNDAS rose, in pursuance of notice,
to move the different Estimates for the Naval Service
of the current year. It would be unneceisary.for him
to enter minutely into this subject, as the Estimates
had been printed several weeks and in the hands of
the Members. If any Gentleman, however, wished
for explanation on any particular branch, he would
he happy to afford it. The Estimates consisted of the
Ordinary, the Extraordinary, and Transport Service.
—The Ordinary Service was divided into thre7
branches: Ist. Pay-2J. Half pay. An increase was
proposed in this branch, but it was impossible yet to
say to what extent. The 3d head was, the Estimate
of Superannuation. The next was the Extraordinary
Service : no alteration would take place in this ser-
vice. With respect to the Estimate of the Repairs
of Ships of War, a great dual would be necessary to
fit them for the Ordinary, for if laid up unre.paited,
they would go to ruin. He next came to the head
of Expellees- of ,New Works reetuired ; but the Coin-
' mittee would not thank him to go through the de-
tails of the works now. A rarge sum of above
.ilOO,OOO was stated for Army Provisions, E:c.—
He proposed a reduction of one-half, that isllBoo,ooo.
One article, the Sick and Wounded, was consideralily
over-stated, but he could not yet say to what extent.
It would depend WI the number of those who arrived
sick front foreign service. One large statement was
81400,000 for Prisoners Of War. A hope would
naturally be entertained of a large reduction on this
head ; but the accounts were kept from October one
year to October the next year, so that the ,xaving
would only be from the period of the release to Oct.'
tuber. The reduction would be about 1C`260,0U0.
In December last there was voted 12. millions for
Pear and Wear. A reduction was here proposed of
two millions. The total deduction from the Estimates
of the current year would be between three and tour
millions. The House had' voted 140,000 Seamen.—
it must be gratifying to all to learn the pitch di,
power to which the British Navy had ari ived. It'
had never perhaps been equalled, and certainly never
exceeded. It was not this or that Board, which had
raised the Navy to this ascendancy, bat the liberal
support of Parliament and the country at large.—
We had a naval pt wer equaito check the combined
fleets of the sta rid, and even capable of overwhelming
them. It consisted of ahoy:: 1000 vessels. What
our &amen were the voice of Europe would tell.—
They had been engaged in blockade for years, a dull
monotonous service, which they had borne without
murmuring or repining. A grateful C6untry most
hail the return of their brave Defenders. They had
earned the gratitude of that country by many a toil-
some, many a stormy day. •
The following items were then moved and agreed
to in the Committee:
For Tear and Wear, &c.
For Superannuated Clerks
For UV..pay to Suitrannuated Officers of the Navy
and Marines 460,000
for Salaries to the Admiralty, the Navy-Pay, at:'!
Victualling Offiects
For the 'Transport Office, and Office for Sick and
Woonl.d Seamen . 150,000
•
For the Franiliort Service - . . . 2,950,000
ha. Sick and Wouvdcil Seamen, at home and abroad 22a,000
For l'risoners of War in health, at hOine and abroad 1,•208,t,00
l'ruvisions to:. Frout's and Garrisons on foreign stations 1,600,000
Mr. TIERNEY enquired whether, upon the whole
Eaimates, there was an exceeding above, or a dimi-
nution under thosa of last year ? - •
. Mr. CROKER replied, that on the Extraordinary
Estimates there was a diminution of nearly ACVX),OOO
as compared with the last year. In the whole there
was a reducton of nearly three millions in conse-
quence of recent events. Under the head containing
all, the establishments, such as the Superannuation
and Halt-pay Lists, there was necessarily an increase
of AGO,OOO. The head Army Provisions, which was
not a naval service, but a sum charged for the con-
veyance of troops, there was an augmentation of
8500,000, and charge for the Transport Service was
increased £700,0(X), but both these items would
amount to nothing in future years, excepting the next,
when heavy expences must- be idcurred for bringing
home our armies from various situations.
Mr. LOCKHART inquired whether it was meant
to make an addition to the tickets of Out-pensioners
at Greenwich Hospital ?
• Mr. CROKER assured the House that the largest
possible allowance should be made, but he could not
give a more precise answer. He stated that the Wi-
dow's Pensions, originally established by queen Caro-
line. would be augmented in consequenix of new re-
gulations.

L 12,000,000
61,000

270,000

CORN LAWS.
The House, on the motion of the CHANCELLOR of
the EXCHEQUER, resumed the further consideration of
the Report concerning the Corn Laws.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
was of opinion that some of those resolutions would
require further deliberation, and he should wish the
subject, so tar as related to them, postponed ; but so
convinced was he of the propriety of the first resolu-
tion for allowing unrestamed export, that he should
be unwilling to postpone it for a single day. He did
not believe there ever was a country in which agri-
culture flourished without export. It was not pro-
bable that any inconvenience could be ever incurred
flom allowing a free export& as the great probability
•

was, that the seller would find -a higher price Oa this
country than in any other. Other countries differed
very materially from this with respect to the con-
sumption of corn. In other countries, when corn
was high, there was a much less consumption ; but
here, the price of labour rose generally with the price
of bread, and the poor laws also enabled the poor to
consume the same quantity, whatever the price was,
as, if they were unable to purchase, the parish was
obliged to provide for them. Agriculture, he con-
tended, ought to be encouraged, and the unrestrained
privilege of export was one of the most likely means
for this purpose. • The other resolutions that were
moreailoubttul, and that required more mature consi-
deration he would defer till a future day.
Mr.. FOSTER expressed his satisfaction at 'the
Right Hon. Gentleman's approbation of the first part
of the measure. To the second resolution he would
himself object, as not being sufficiently simple. The
Irish he considered superior to. the English system,
and therefore Ireland had become a corn country,
and was an exporting country, while England was an
importing country.
Sir H. PARNELL was also glad of the support
of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and hoped that ano-
ther Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rose) would.now
see that the measure was neither rash nor unfounded.
Tne export was certainly the more important branch
of the measure, as we might by that, instead of an ,
importing, become an exporting country. He had
no objection to postpone the other resolutions, provi-
ded the first was adopted.
Mr. ROSE wad perfectly convinced, that if this
was passed into a law, it would be productive of the
Most mischievous consequences.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT supported the measure.,
It was foretold in 1806, when the door-was thrown
open fur export in Ireland, that it would be against
that country. On the contrary, however, the Agri-
culture of Ireland had increased every day since, and
what had been found beneficial in one part of the
United Kingdom could not be prejudicial to the other,
Mr. 'WESTERN was of opinion, that the coun-
try should adhere to that system which had been so
long followed frith advantage. It was a question or
the greatest importance, and required the most ma-
ture deliberation.
Mr. P. GRANT wished to re-establish the system
of a century when we exported corn, in opposition to
that of the laFt half century, during which we had
been in the habit of importing it. If the country
conid grow enough of corn for its own consumption,
then the growth of it ought by al) means to be pro-
moted ; but if it could not, then importation- should
be encouraged. He did not approve of a plan to en-
COUVrge both•systems.
Mi. MartitrATT supported the resolution.
Mr. HORNER thought that when the Harase came
to consider the other resolutions,it would see the pro-
priety of pausing, at least for some-time, before it
went to a decision on so very important a measure.
He wished that, once for all, the House would now
decide on the interest, by which those were emitted
who opposed the resolutions. The real interests of
the consumer and of the landlord were one and the
S.lllle. But What did the Committee prutess to du ?
Why, to raise the price to the consunier.—( A Mem-
ber called out No !no !) He would ask whether the
Hon. Member for the Queen's county (Sir H. Par.
nell) had not acknowedged this on a former occasion,'
and it the Hon. Member who favoured him with tie
interruption, took pains to enquire, he would'find it
was so. The necessary effect of the measure was per-
manently to increase the price of Corn. He approved
of sonic parts of the vie.. wnich his Kiehl honourable
Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had taken
of the question.
Mr. W. SMITH read a paper that had been posted
up in the city for which he was a Member, containing
a petition that had been presented in boo Houses,
couched in very warm terms against the measure,
and representing it as a measure in favour of the great
Landed proprietors, against the manufacturing interests
of the country, and as having for its object the ruin
of our manufactures, and the depopulation of tha
country. The paper contained also an address to the
people of Norwich, calling on them also to exert
themselves against a measure so pernicious and de-
structive. Thispaper wastromNewcastic-upon-Tyne,
wen which the petition had come also, though he
was far from blaming either the Noble Lord who had
presented it in the other House (Lord Grey) or the
Hon. Gentleman oho had presented it here. This
production was a proof, however, that they ought not
to give any countenance to this language of ignorance
and prejudice, which would too readily be sized out
of doors.
Mr. HARVEY vindicated the inhabitants of Nor-
wich, who fie said had perfect reliance on the wisdom
of the House, in adopting such regulations as were
most likely to advance the general prosperity. .
Mr. W. SMITH disclaimed attributing the cla-
mour in Norwich against the measure under conside-
ration to the population of that most respectable city,
_but to a few malignant spirits. He at the same time
declined giving an opinion of the measure in that stage
of its progress.•
Mr. LASCELLES recommended the greatest
caution and deliberation in legislating upon this im-
portant subject. It was but last year that it was ask-
ed, could any person expect to live to see corn so low
AS 10s. 6d. a bushel. Gentlemen had only to look
to the present price, and the change that took place
would sufficiently prove the necessity of proceeding
with all possible care. There was one error in re-
spect to the fluctuation of price, which he was desi-
rous of removing. Supposing corn to sell at 1 '2s. at
one time, and at Ss. subsequently, theadiffcrenre of
price in that case was supposed to be the difference
between eight and twelve. But this was not correct,
because the excess in point of quantity sold at the
lower price was to be taken into consideration, and
subtracted from the excess of the one price above the
other. He was hostile to the principle of Itgislating
on prices, and wished them to be left to rise or tall
by their own operation.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
thought that the principle of the first Resolution was
so well uederstood, and so important to the interests
of a large portion of the community, that it should
pass as speedily as possible under the consideration of
the House. In reply to arguments founded on the
practice and authority of our ancestors, he observed,
that since those times the foreign commercial relations
of this country had been greatly changed. The othet
IttleUlUtiOili be wished to be circulated and well un-

derstood throusth the country before a final deterin4
nat:on.—Mr. ROSE ezplAined. -
The first Resolution was then agreed to, and A Bill
founded on k ordered to. be brought M. The Re-
port was ordered to be taken into further coniidera•
two on Kinday.

APPRINTICISHIP DILL.
Mr, Serjeant ONSLOW moved the 2d reading of
the Bill, to repeal the sth of Elizabeth. '.
Sir F. FLOOD opposed the Bill, which he con-
sidered as one which would operate extremely to the
prejudice of the public. It was said this would be a
Bill of complete liberty, but in his opinion it ,would re
a Bill of licentiousness. It would operate in a man-
ner extremely oppressive en those rrsoLs *he had
served a regular arprentlceship, by opening a door,
and letting in upon them the scum of satiety, &evil
together from here and there and every where.—(A
Laugh.)—He hoped, previous to passing this Act;
jurious to commerce, injurious to the mechanic, an
act which would do aw•iy in..len:aires, and thus do
away the Stamp Act, the Hoitte would pause— (
laugh.) A Bill which, by doing away the necessity ef
stamps, would injt.re the reveuue„ and that at a time
when the country was not in a situation to Cirow away
money.—(A laugh). This wa, a Bill wijcl, had filit d
' the gallery with strangers, seeming with anxiety.—
(Loud erica of Order !) He hoped, however, he st.ould
deliver the House tiom any more trouble on this novel
bill, which hid spi wig up, after a lapse of 220 cdil
years— (A laugh)—by iliortng,That it be read a 2ci•
time this day six mouths.
Mr PROTHE,ROE opposed the Bill, which went
to destroy the whole system of apprenticeship to re-
me fy its detects.He objected to tl,e measure in a
moral point of view, in which resp-ct he was tiPield •
by the opinions of Lord Coke' and Sir Wm. Black.
stone. He had heard mach of vekatious prosecutions
under Vie Act of Elizabeth ; but, inquiry, he
found that at Btistol, for the last twenty years, there
had not been one such preseciur 41. If apprenticeships
were more encouraged, he was satisfied that comnina.
t;ons among journey I:ien would almost entirely he put
an end to. It the House were to lower its attention
down to the leimble costaee, they would there see the
advantages of this system, in beholding caret al sot is%
ters provided for the youth, who, in addition, were
provided with f-ied and clothing, wide their morals
were protected. Lie should be harpy that die present
Bill'wePe withdrawn, and some measure unaccompa. •
tried by its disadvantages were introduced.
Mr. HART DAVIS could not disguise Coto him,
sell that the present measure was attended With many
difficulties. It would undoubtedly be of great advan-
tage to our manufacturers that the present law should
be repealed' arid that every restraint should be remov-
ed from the rising geeeration. Supposing a persons
to be brought up to a trade for which, from his con-
stitution, he was not fit, was he to he excluded from
pureeing ;any other pursuit or occupation whatever
Suppose the trade of button makers., which was a
!Jade that speedily passed away, or of gun-makers,
i'tf whom probably 40,0(19 might in a few months be
hrown out of employment, was is to be held that
they could follow no other occupation, bat must re-
in on a burtheo upon the community ? 'The more he
considered the present measure, the more he was sae
usfied of iss utility.
Mr. PROT EIEROE explained that he could aids,
a general review cit the whole system.
Mr. GIDDY thought, if any one measure more
than another could be said to involve tie general
rights of mankind, the present was that meesere.-e-
-hat was this but the general right of the in:nom:ants
of this country, to employ tie en,rgies of their mind
And bodys in the way they themseives pleased 2 And
if a system were to be continued by which melt were
deprived of this general and undoubted right, it seem-
ed to be incumbent on those who contended tor the
Loreinuance of such a restrivion to chew am what
eriticiple it was founded. It Gentlemen attended to
the times in which the law us question was passed,
they would find that it was a period in which many
111-advis.te nu.i.opolies bad been granted, and one in
which remonstrances on that subject hau been n.ade
by the House of Commons on the impolicy of such a
system, which had not been much attended to. No-
thine, he was convinced, had coon ih.uted so much as
the law in question to check the progress in our arts
and maniatactui es.
Sir C. MORDAUNT, on the part or his consti:.
Ituents, the Manulacturtrsof Birmingli.ani, was strong-
ly in favour of the present repeal. It t;-te Lew, as it
stow stood, were put in torte, it would have the effect
of imposing the strongest possible tettecs upon inge-
nuity and industry.
Mr. THOMPSON wished the law totally repealed,
though the Bill dial not go so far. The present law
was necessarily broken every day. It was clear, that
the Judges always wished to evade it, when they
could do so. He knew a case of two men, who were
prosecuted under the Act for sawing a piece of wood;
another, of agood and a bad baker in the same town,
Where tt.e bad one finding that the good one had not
served a regular apprenticeship, had him turned out,
and got liberty to poison all his neighbours with his
bad bread. ( Laugh.) Some years ago the winters
struck, and there was a difficulty in getting even the
Parliamentary Papers printed. Let those who cause
it bind their children as apprentices ; but let not .
others be compelled to do the same. Instances of the
absurdity of the law would be innumerable. It was
none the better for the age of it, which the worthy Ba.
mnet had stated. It was, in fact,supperannuated, and
it was much the kindest way to let it die quietly, and
so confer an advantage both in this country and in
Ireland. (Laugh.) Lord Ellenborough got the
coach-makers out et a scrape ingeniously enough.,
They were attacked as wheel-makera; but his Lord.
ship said that coaches could not have been known in
Etizabeth's days, as that Queen went to Parliament
on horseback.
Mr. ROSE agreed that this was an extremely dif-
ficult subject. He could nut consent that the 6yst rn
of apprenticeships shined be put end tii ; but
thought that in the Cowmii ce such aiteretions might
be suggested as might remove the ebjections he, at
present, telt to the Bill of the Leanne .sei re .nt. He
was willing to examine and improve the sth of Eo.
zabeth, but he would not agree to tuts unqualitied
repeal.
Sir J. NEWPORT was astonished at the partiality
expressed by the Hon. Baronet (Sir F. Flood) to the
Act proposed to be repeeled, tie mine pal icularly as
it never formed any part of the law of Ireland. On
every principle of justice lie was decideuly of op nice