Star.
London, England, 1807-02-05 00:00:00

infiwance, they would find that at.thismnm ell. t
they
might infure a cargo from the enemy's colony to the
Mother Country, as well as from Jamaica to the Mo.
ther Country. The Noble Lord preired with earnefl-
nefi on the loloofe the confideration of the present
date of our commerce; and efpediallv 'the flight
hopes that could be entertained of auy aill dance from
the political fyftem of America in fuch queitions.
He trutted the fopineuefs of our own Government
' would form give place to more w:Ce ash.l eneszetie
meaftit es
I Earl TEMPLE confidered the motion as unconlii.
tntional in its nbjeift, becaufe it went to interfere with
Minifters pending a negoenvion, and in the view of
meafuresupon which nothing fpecificapold yet apoear,
and refpeeting which no d.'cuments caull he in the
poffeflion of the Houk. He reminded the Hon. and
Learned Mover of his own • oppolition in Lord Sid-
mou,h's Adminittration, to the produetion of Pipets;
and contended, with coroiderable ability, that the .
quelion was not on a renunciation of i ights,which h .d
never been made, but on the policy of our puling
our rights to a parti:ular extent. He then ll.wed, '
on a view of the exports and imports, the policy of
the meaftire if Government. Lail year twenty four
,millions of Englilh commodities were exported to
I Europe. To Atom Ica eleven millions. The uterolt
i produce of the Frarich Wands was four or five
millions , but on the calculations made by the
Gentleman oppufite. feven millions were fent to
I France. All the difference then was Englifh. The
I meafures of the Honottrahle Member went to the
flopping of the export of Britilh produce. Covet n• ,
ment had renounced on right poffeffed or claimed by
this country, but would act according to circuni- ;
i fiances, as good policy might direa. The object of
1 the enemy was eLelored to be the deftruelion of our
trade, and we mutt refid him by every means in our
: power, but not by rafts and impolitic matures. The '
Noble Lord made many other obfereations, and coa-
t eluded by declaring hirnfelf adverle to the motion.
Sir THOMAS TURTON expreffed his furprife
I at what fell from a Leariod Gentleman at the other
isle of the Houle, that it was uot the duty of Parlia •
ment to call for limb a paper. But he confer:dad,
that the unparalleled dare of Europe, a date that i
had no precedont till this period, canted many tit: .g,.
to be done which "r. ad no other precedent than the
neceffity of the cAfe ; to with terpeet to ibis motion,
the neceffity of the cafe, mad that date of Europe, de- t
=tided it. If the retaliation be injurious to neutrals,
the cattle was with the enemy. If Bonaparte favoured
Ametica, to as to permit her to connive with her in
the ruin Of the trade of Great Britain, then would it
not be prodent as well as political to prevent fuch a
1
circumstance This country hac yielded too much to I
remonftrances, that fyllem of c.lamitfion fhould he
I difcontinued. Miniftcrs feern ro be tertifizol into a i
fubmiflii.n to America, and to have it.a..le a peace I
I with her with a pidol to their breads. the decree of
Bonaparte was infinitely mare to be drcadtd by the I
no:m.l;4le ititerett of tlsi; Cost•ltt.y than that o: the :
Government of France io :.,ja : the one only ....-.rtt
to partial confikation, hot the r.thet to comple:e coil.
ififcation and anoihdation. The trmtfttre hcfore tht
i country was, in his opinion, ddieielo in enerno,o and
ihe was hAppy, let Wile might be toe etfon of his
: fiicod% motion in other repeat., that a: :al! events it
I produced the aelolowled;.;rneitt tenor the other fide of
l the Honk, that Mori:lets v..0t;.1d ore :trip sheet of this
meafloo, but would extend their exettioos beyond it,
as the oceation might require.
Lord HOWICK role, and replied, io fubflance,
as follows :—" Sir, it is nc,t ace thing nhich has been
laid on the other tide of ihn Hotti'a, which makes toe
trefpafs on your attenti,n, at this stage of the debate,
but feting no whet petrol) on this fide of the Hook
, entering into the difctiffi• T. ; uncut. httaro:iog the very
full, able, and fati,fillot y lIIIIMer in ~thigh it ha•
been already confidered by my Noble Friend (Earl
Temple), and my Honourable and Learned Friend
(Sir John Nicholl), I yet find it honed -16:e to con-
tent invfelf with a tilent vete upon this occation.—
The Hon. and Learned Baronet (Sir Thos Turtonj
has dated the impropriety of arguing this cuedian
'Ton general merits, until the production uf the
papers, moved for by the Right Honourable and
Learned Gentleman (Mr. Paceval) and faid, that'
tie timid content himfelf with conlidering the
tingle queflion upon the production of there pa-
pers; ye: he had not finifhed one femence upon that
point, when the remainder of his fpeech was occupied
in difcuffing the general merits of the quedion.—
This is all, perhaps, I (hall trouble myfelf to fay, in
anfwer to the Learned Baronet's fpcech. The
Learned Gentleman. (Mr. Peiceval) could not
luppofe that any motion he thould make upon the
principles he Rated, would be acted upon by Par-
liament as a matter of courfe, n r could it be fop.
poled that it was for the purpok of coucealment that
his Majelly's Minifters refilled the production of
thofe papers, but that it was in compliance with that
duty which was maintained on a great conftitu-
tional principle. Thefe papers could only be called
for, for the purpofe of inttituting time Parliamen-
tary proceedings; it is the duty of the Houle to fee
that thele proceedings are confident, and it is the
duty of his /vlajelly's Minitten not to communicate
1 that which might Ire injurious to the interells of the
• country. I know of no precedent which admits of
the produEtion of papers, upon the principle laid
down by the Right Honourable and Learned Gen
demon ; and ankh he can thew that there is a Cite,
similar to this, on which I have acted, he has ro
grounds for his motion. But he has already mirnit!td
that' he knows of no precedent Mt the prothOSi:l of
thole papers. Can he fay that there were TIM Orders
of Church in the comic of lad )ear, which were
never netore the Houk, amid could trot be before it.
—But it is neither more nor lcfs than an attempt to
fuperfede the fimelions of the Exectrive Govern-
ment ; and would it then be for this Houfe to aft
without any information upon the fubjeet where the
documents confidently could not be laid before i
them'? I do not mean to contend, that any meaftoe
of the Executive. Government is not under the toil•
trout cif thilWe ; but I do maintain, that in any
mediae peeatharTy exililog in the Esectniee Gm
iernment, and ending the progrels of that MCA. I
fore, this Fipilfe "will no: interfere. Now, what is I
the date of the cafe, upon its general merits ? A
Decree is "Med froin the French Government, the
nature of which it is ton neceffary for me to go I
into at any length, having been f. ably and fully I
antwered by my Hon. and Learned Frter d. That I,
Decree was a fete aft, built upon talk principles) and/

' fuel) as has its erifience bat in thit cnnntry, an. 3
I we pert:.it her to fall upon her own trap. In the v.:ry
fil It meafure we, have taken in anfcer to that de: re:

of the French aleernmenr, the H in. and Learned

Centlem.tn calls upon the li•ufe, contrary to all pre-
cedent, contrary to all principles hitherto ailed upcn,
to adopt a mealure of retaliatEn. However vi Jent

the order of the French Government, f r the Ponfif-
cation of Eaglith proprty, the H n. and Learned
Gentleman, I :tm lure, will agree with me, that rata-
liat;rm, is the :yap praptAd by him, can give us nu
a:lditional right .gainfl neutral powers, nor is it any

reafon that we thould treat as enemies thife unfortu•

nat2 and unh.ti)py c.)untries, who have been obliged
to bcconie pAr:ea with France, or ate forced into

that iititati lii:lead ttf cnmptilli nn and holtility,
we, therefore, aft towards them with forbearance and
ninieTation. It is then fail, we hive taken mearti,es
'hot t °fresh at ion, and fo the iionourable and' Learn-

!Jentlernan lays, we have taken wrong mear.ure,..
Li it [ w in!ct alk. %ecaofe France has proceeded wish

vi,A•nce and injuirce, is this cmntry to prrtne the
f.trne meafure, by way of retaliai n ? 'ibis right,
thereinre, berme() arcertained, 1 would all:, if 1o; is
the FL,nnurable Gentleman prepared to recom-
tn this H rule, th It every perfon having pro-
perty la:I :npiug to French ftNers, in his hands, or.
that Any pror.crzy !:dinging to French I..!)jels, in
the Fonds, (hail c(rtfifcated ? I thould like to

kiln'', how this 1-1, life would upon filch a re-

commenlatioo. Raving Olen this induitah;e ri&ht
relAliAtion, I do conceive it ought to be ut-cd u•itd
expediency.—tut it the Executive G w:rn-

ment cannot be relied upon, let not the Ffmoulabld

. -
and LeartudGemtlemin tnove for tilde papers,but let
him at once move an Addrefs to his NlAjcay, to re-
mote from hi; Ciluncils thrift perfong in whom no con.
fidrnce can be placed. One of the inconveoiencies at.

tending this difcullion, is the impoffibility or going
into it upon the %%hole of the metits, %itiormt ri(kiag
fumething that might be important in its c,,nle.t:tences,
rendilg commercial ncgociaticns with Foreign
Powers. The actitlion cannot be fairly entered on,

witholt expofing fome of our m vu:nerable part►.
and enabling the enemy to attempt that which he

• iikly hoped so extcote.the Noble I..ord(CAileseagh)
obj::Cis to this measure, becAufe the Decree of the

French is fisnilar to that of 1793, although their
powers were not 1' great then as at relent, but France
and Spa'a, were then, as now, in dole alliance, IP.rWnce
c nanCel the whole extent of coati round the Con-
tinent, to 11.,e Bay of Naples, With the exception only
of the Elbe and the Wder, and that (mall track, the
kingdom nt Porttigal. With refpea to the (hipping,
we hate the farce advantages is we had in 1793. As
a maritime ;rawer, France was greater than the is
tore, tic battle of Trafalgar n't having then taken
place. Toe forbearance, therefore, cf the Engin
Gavemment, is en:hied to approbation, and I d
not fe:, that, upon broad and general principles, it
.-01;:d have been ntherwife. N Ailing could be more
faoguinary and :'trocinus than the D:cree of the
French G -versmenr, in 1798, decl iting, that no
quit cr was to be given to the Britith foldiers ; but
1 ..cv.o heard any perfon blame this Houfe, for not
ifrong a finnlar Decree. The deigns of our enc.
in:es l•.,Le .;tren fruilrated, and will continue to be •
fa, trO :fs home 'violent meafure, f. reit as the
Lzarn,.,! Gentleman wifhes to recommend to the
H o.fe, &11l the adopt-i. But what is the ohjeFt
the prnin.led fjliem t f retaliation ? It reminets me of
a ilory I h ire read fnmenlere, of a poor man, who
was in great want of rime cc:v.4 nuts, which grew on
the top of a tree, and he hnd no means of reacLiog,
them. At lag, how.ever, he (pied a little monkey in
the tree, and inimediately thought of an expedient to
get at what I.e wanted ; he threw a quantity of
tones and dirt at the monkey, which worked the
little ieritabie animal into a Nihon, and by way
nf rctali ition, the monkey flew back and threw at
the man the fruit which it was his objcet to oh-
rain. Now, I cannot fee any other aka in the
Learned Gentleman's propolal, than by way of
retaliation for :he blockading fyllem of the French
Government, which Bonaparte throws at us, in re-
venie for which we are told that we thankd throw our
commerce at him. In (port, I take this to be a
motion entirely unprecedented ; a motion, interfering
with fame of the molt important ditties of the Exe-
cutive Government ; pending a meaftne which has
not as yet had its full effeft ; and fuck a motion, a',
I am lure, the Houfe will not countenance ; and
whatever confidence the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman may place in fuch a ptbeeeding, I,
with much more confidence, rely upon that fyllenl
of moderation and forbearance which has been adopt-
ed. lam the lack peifon who would ark the Houfe
to yieli to any alfertions of mine: but if the Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman's affertions are
true, if his m'.tian is well founded, and the inter-
ells of the country are at flake, he fhould not
have moved for this paper, but for the difmilfal
of his Majefty's prefent Minifters—l mult again re-
peat.that we have taken a meafure which we hope will
be effectual ; if not, it ani lies in our power to relent
to other meafures, but not as the Hon. and Learned
Baronet Rated, a view to experiment only. I
j do, therefore, contend, that it is a complete inter-
, ruption of the enemy's commerce. Spain and Italy
can fend nothing to France, nor can France fend any
thing to th.fe places. Upon all thefe grounds, there.
fare, 1 trull the hi,,ufe will he fatisfied that his Ma-
jen) 's Minifltrs have not been negligent of the true
inteteas and honour of the country."
Sir THOMAS TURTON and Lord HOWICK
feverailf explained.
Hr. PERCEVAL, in reply, erpreffed his difin-
dioation further to trelpafs on the ,ime of the Houle,
were it not that he telt hitnfed imperioutly palled
on to animadvert upon the extraordinary ftatements
of the Nh e Lord who had jolt fat down. He was
willing, ho ...ever, to give the Noble Lord credit for
the facetious manner In which he had endeavoured
to refute his atgument refpeaing retaliation, but
could not help thinking the ftyle of:the argument
;wens adopted merely for the purpofe of introducing
;he elegant and claflic limile of Sinbad the Sailor.
The Noble Lord had then proceeded to demand,
whetherhe would infift that the fame violence which
France had reforted to in her condua towards Eng-
land, timid have been retorted, in the fame meafine,
in our treatment of France ? The Noble Lord knew,
thertanptp ofrehheenr
fi nroanl,igni
left a
,
as ty,
as well as he did, it was far from his intention to
ta
e hado nF
alreadyranc e France
t:p
irfendl extent
pcsfezer.uace in ouch a e mode
retaliatiourimight, in
retaliate
i