Star.
London, England, 1822-02-08 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The Smarm took the Chair at ten minutes to four o'clock.

Mr. WILLIAM DUNDAS presented a Petition from the
Magistrates of Edinburgh, complaining of the lax state of the
pollee of that city.
Mr. A BERCROMBY presented a similar Petition from the
General Cummissianers of the Police of Edinburgh.—Doth re-
ferred to a Committee.

Sir WILLIAM CURTIS gave notice, that on Thursday
next he would move fur a Committee to inquire into the state
of London Bridge..
_ _ _

Several new Members took the oaths.

Mr. Alderman WOOD moved, " That an Address he pre-
sented to the King, praying that the evidence taken before the
Connnissiorars, together with their Report upon the.state of 11.
chester Jail, be Lid before the House."

Mr. Alderman WOOD made a similar motion for the pro-
duction of the Report of the 'Magistrates of Somerset on the same
subject.—Or.:ercd.
Mr. DA WSON moved for an Address to his Majesty, pray-
ing him to order the last Report of the Vaccine Board to be
laid before the House.—Ordered.

Mr. LENNAHD gave notice, that he would, on the i".2.(1 inst.
more an Address to the King, praying him to recommend to
this House a revision of, and reduction in the several branches
of the Civil List—(Mein.).
Upon the motion of Mr. unor,DEN, the several Sessional
Orders for the regulation of the business of the House wvre
agreed to.

Upon tl:e question, " That after the 22d of February this
House will not receive any private petition,"
Mr. HUME observed, that it appeared to him the time li-
mited by this order for receiving petitions was unuivally and in-
cenveniently short. This urskr was made at a time that Par-
liament was used to meet in November or December, and was
not adapted to the present time, when Parliament assembled at
a much later season.

The SPEAKER explained, that the time was not unusually
I limited-. The practice had always been to limit the time fur
receiving private Petitions to fourteen days after the meeting of
Parliament. In this case a particular date had been fixed,
only in order to remove all ambiguity, that the Public might be
satisfied with regard to the last day for, presenting Petitions.—
This was a standing order of the house, which the House was
certainly at liberty to rescind :vhen it thought proper, but whilst
It was unrepealed, he (the Speaker) had thought it his duty to
regulate himself by it.
Mr. LOCK ['ART said it was of importance that the time
for receiving private Petitions should but be too limited, for this
reason, that as all inclosures would he regulated in a great meat-
sure by the fate of the agricultural question in this house, it
was unreasonabl: to bind them to a given time for bringing their
Petitions here, until they had first ascertained whether they re.
ceived any encouragement to improvement by the sups which
this House v.ovid eventually take.
The SPEAKER said he had is hesitation in saying that this
order was rather a relief to the Petitioners than otherwise. It
saved expense to the parties to fix a day, hut though the standing
order forbade the receiving of private Petitions after a certain
day, yet every Honourable Member knew that when a repre-
sentation was made of unavoidable delay having occurred, the
house was constantly in the habit of receiving them after the
time limited by this oider.---The order was then agreed to.
It was also ordered, that no Piivate Bill be read a first time
after the Itith of March neat,

S AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS.
COKE said, he held in his hand a Petition
from the Owners and Occupiers of Land in the once
flourishing County of Not folk, where Aviculture
was once in a flourishing condition—where it was
carried on with less_expenseand where. mote Corn
was produced from poor landi.by-good management
and good husbandry, than any other county he ever
saw. It was with sorrow he was now called upon to
say, that the state of agriculture in Norfolk at this
day was in a heart-breaking condition, and to no one
did its lamentable state speak with more force than
to himself, who had spent his life, whilst at home, in
endeavouring to better it, and he last forty years
that he was in Parliament in trying to promote its
best interests—(Hear, hear).—lt was melancholy to
see the state of age iculture at this time in Norfolk,
and the general alarm which prevailed in consequences
The Requisition for the Meeting whence this Petition
close, was signed by the yeomanry of the County
'Zone; but a more respectable yeoman!), were not Lei
be found in any county. They were a class of men,
and his Colleague knew the fact as well as himself,
of whom, to his (Mr. Coke's) certain knowledge, thred
out of five had been hitherto supporters of Govern-
ment, but who at length saw their error,. and came
forward, reluctantly indeed, but impelled to it by im-
perative distress. It was a noble example they set to
the rest of the country ; and he felt proud at repre-
senting a county which had been the first to come
forward and state its grievances. That example had
been already followed by some others, but he hoped
it would be so *generally in a little time. The more
the public voice was proclaimed, the more the cbject
was promoted; the crisis required a union of acting;
and such was the critical state of agriculture now,
that; unless there was a union of the Gentlemen
of landed property on both sides 81 the House to
resist the measures of Government, the total de:
struction of the agricultural interest altogether
was to be apprehended—(Hear, hear, hear).—
This Petition, and it was well drawn, prayed the
House to adopt economy and retrenchment as the
only means of giving relief under present circum-
stances. It stated what no one could deny, that to
an overwhelming taxation all . our distresses were
attributable. It prayed that the taxes upon malt,
salt, leather, and other articles, might be 'directly
reduced, which would give relief to the amount
of five millions, without materially affecting the
Revenue--(Hear, hear).—Reduction of taxation was
'the boon asked for upon all bands; but how asto-
nished must the kingdom be when they heard, and
they bad heard it before this, that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer declared in his place the other night,
' " that a reduction of taxation would be not only nuga-
tory, but mischievous; that the reduction of taxation,
so far from affording relief would end in disappoint-
ment, and not only end in disappointment, but aggra•
vate the distresses of the count: y"—•( Loud cries of
" Hear l" front the Opposition).—Were the People of
England, circumstanced as they now were, to be
treated thus—were they, whilst groaning under diffi-
culties and distress, to be told by a hardhearted
Administration—(Hear)—that they were to expect
no relief, and that their Petitions were not to be at-
ter, ded to?—(Hear, hear, heti. ).-- Was this language
to be 10. ne fi.cm a Minister of the Crown—fiom the
House of Commons ? (hear).-I.e (Mr. Coke) cou'd
have told the People that it was in vain to expect
much relief from this House ; but he little expected
to hear the same avowed publicly by his Majesty's
Nllnis.ters ; for the People wet e still used to look to
this House as to a land of promise, even constituted as
it was—corrupt as it was—proP.igate as it wa.—s
( Loud cries rif " Order!" c 1.0; .11-r )—" Well," con.
unwed Mr. Coke, " since it is known to be so"
(Order, order!. Chair, cl.air )
The SPEAKER said, that the expressions used
called upon him, however reluctantly, to interfere.
Ile would be the last maa to interpose; but the lion.
Member's own reflection would convince him, that
the line of expression which he used towards this
I louse, was such as lie must be indisposed to perse-
vere in—(hear, hear).
Mr. COK E said he was ever ready to submit to the
Chair; but standing there as he did, the Represen-
tative of the first county in the .kingdom, in which
he had spent his. life, and to the interests of which
he was much attached, he hoped. that some indul-
gence would he extended to.him for the warmth of
his feelings. He was unwilling to use one unparlia-
mentary expression of this House; but, impelled by
the duty which he owed his constituents, be was
bound to say, though in other terms,. that no redress
was to be expected by the People from this House,
constituted as it now was. Having said this much,
he begged leave to refer to the language of the iti--
tion,which was strcnger than anything he could say;
and he called the attention of the House to those
parts where retrenchment was recommended in every
department of the public service. The Petitioners
concluded by saying—" That it vas therefore their
Becided conviction, that the corrupt and inefficient
state of the Representation of the People was the
true source of our distresses, arc!, until the People
were more properly represented in Parliament, we
could expect no adequate relief'—(Hear, hear, hear).
And he was more them ever convinced ut the neces-
sity of Reform in this House, by what fell from the
lion. Member for Kent, the other night, whom he
now saw in his place. The present state of the House
was perhaps well defended by that Hon. Member,
who enjoyed a situation and large emoluments under
the present system; but his description ut the !louse
seemed but to confirm him (Mr.Colce) in the comfit-
' tion that nothing was to be expected from this House
:is it was now constituted—(!fear, hear).—'The
lemused ,17,nriceoitiichlit,tadreidiabnyiestnet,iiiiiyn
ea:l)k imng pi:iiBl44oiLitd)t lintoovviztigd
that the Petition be now read.

The motion having been seconded,
Sir E. N.A.11:11 BULL rose, and said that
not caLeti upon to give an 0pin4.41 upon the

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though I
uth,c,:t

!OW

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before the House, bz anything which fell from the
Honourable Member who brought up the Petition,
as connected with it, hovrevkr much he was surprised
that so experienced a Member should betray web
warmth, yet, when that Honourable Member tiw
veiled out of his way to visit a reproach upon him
(Sir Edward) personally, he felt it would be a dere-
liction of duty to be silent, and he therefore entreated
the indulgence of the House whilst he offered a word
of explanation—(Hear, hear).—In the first plate he
wished to explain what he had said on the occasion
alluded to, in which he bad the misfortune to be en-
tirely misunderstood ; and, secondly, to deny, in tot',
the unfounded charges which, from causes and mo-
tives unknown to him, more than one Hon. Member
of that House had thought proper to make against
him—(Hear, hear).--He would answer thelast charge
which more immediately regarded the motives from
which he was supposed to act, by one conclusive ob-
servation, and in one sentence. The Hon. Member
(Mr. Coke) had alluded (he did not pretend to give
his words) gat certain gains and profits derived from
a public sition, which he (Sir Edward) held, as
unduly influencing his opinions in that House, to
which he would say, that such:was not the feeling bf
the Freeholders of Kent, as the fact of
_their having
returned him their Representative testified—(Near
frintt the Ministers).—He had to ask pardon of the
House for his warmth, but he submitted„that W the
lion. Member for Norfolk could be exalted for the
warmth of his expressions, he, (Sir Edward), who
was acting in his own defence, had a stronger claim
to the indulgence of the House—(Het:l'i hear).—He
hoped to be able to give such an explanation of the
expressions he used upon the particular occasion Al-
luded to, as any candid man should admit to be sa-
tisfactory. If, upon that occasion, he said anything
calculated to call into question the rights or privi-
leges of this House, he would admit that he was un-
worthy to hold a seat in it, and that he was compro-
mising the best interests of his Constituents. But he
denied that he had said anything which could lead
to such a consequence. What he said was this, and
lie challenged any Hon. Member at the other side to
correct him, if he stated it unfairly, that, with re-
gard to the particular question then before the House,
it was his decided opinion that it was for the best in-
terests of the country that a suggestion of relief
should come first from his Majesty's Ministers, and
that his objections were not to the character of the
remedy, but to the quarter from whence it was coming.
This being the opinion which he then gave, he had
to complain that he was unfairly treated by Gentle-
men at the other side of the House, who, in their
comments upon his speech, entirely kept out of view
the declaration he had made, that if the principles
disclosed in the Amendment were not distinctly re-
cognised by Ministers, the Amendment should have
his warmest support—Wear, hear).—He addressed
himself to an Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite
(Mr. Brougham), who, on a former night, corm
mewed with some warmth upon his observations,
and he wished that Hon. Gentleman to know that
however much he (Sir Edward) admired his political,
conduct, and however much he was disposed to give
him credit for impartiality, yet he could not receive
a reproof from him with such absolute deference as
to be turned aside by it, from that line of conduct
which his own judgment pointed out as the most pro-
per to follow—(Hear, hear).—He was bound to say
again, that, with regard to the particular question
of agricultural distress, he thought it was due in
courtesy to Ministers, when they had pledged them-
selves to bring the question forward, that they should
not be anticipated by any premature or ill-judged
measure, from whatever quarter the suggestion should
come—(Hear).—These were the grounds upon which
he gave his opinion, and his only object was that he
should not be misunderstood. With regard to the
Petition, he was disposed to agree with the Honour-
able Member in some points of it, but he thought the
observations of the Hon. Member premature. He
agreed entirely in the existence and extent of the dis'
tress. He was as disposed as any other Member to
give his support to such measures as the general in-
terests of the case required. He did not pretend to
• the same experience as the Hon. Member for Nor-
folk, but it appeared to him unwise to mix up with
the question of agricultural distress, any question not
connected with it, as the introduction of other consi-
derations could only tend to mar and injure it—
(Loud cries of Hear, hear).—He entreated the Hon.
Member to wait only for a little time, until he should
see what steps Ministers took. If their acts did not
please him, it would then be time enough to visit
them with those reproaches which were now launched
upon them unjustly, because prematurely—(Hear,
hear, from the Ministers).—For himself (Sir Edward)
he should say, that he was determined to do his duty,
and to speak fairly the sentiments of his constituents.
He now declared, that if the conduct of Ministers
did not accord with his views of their propriety, they
would find in him a warm opposer—(Hear).—He was
not influenced by party motives, lie left those to the
other side of the House. He would do.his duty, bin
he waited till he saw what Ministers were determined
to do. Once more, therefore, he entreated the Hon.
Member to wait for a time, and he might calculate
that he (Sir Edward) would join him in promoting
the common object which they had in view, namely,
that of serving those interests which were at present
so much distre,sed— (Hear, hear).
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that an allusion having
been made to something which fell from him—not
upon this, but a former occasion, when, in the dis-
charge of his duty, he commented upon a speech of
an Hon. Baronet, who was discharging what he con-
sidered his duty, it was incumbent on him to offer a
word er two in explanation of what he then said. It
was needless to say that, in those comments upon the
Hon. Baronet's speech, he (Mr. Brougham) had as
perfect and undeniable a right to observe upon the
Hon. Baronet's public conduct, as a Member of that
Ilonse, as the lion. Baronet himself had to ptirsue
that conduct. if, upon that occasion, he had misre-
prenntedoemisunderstood the Hon. Member, it was
op mfor him to set him right. But, after hearing the
explanation of the Hou. Baronet, on a former night,
as well as that of this, night, which was a repetition
of it—(Hear, from Sir E. knatchbidl)—he could not
discover that he was at all incorrect in the view which
lie took. cif his. speech ; and for the truth of this he
apPealedao any. one ,who heard the Han. Baronet on
that occasion, and the comments which he (Mr.
COugham) then made upon his speech—(Near). Me

was therefore called upon anemone m°ll'.. airotNetreb, utht?atthst4h4l
he
t not misrepreseeted the
the contrary, he had ti lab, tmaillsto44 and ace*.
mi
rattly represented his ing— r.
(Heor ,
Mr. E..,W EHOU said, that situated as he
was in conneilon with the county of Norfolk, whence
this Petition came, he was called upon to offer a
word upon the subject of it. With regard to the dis-
vela of which it complained, he was boend to. ay,
that he believed it was not only greater than ever it
was before, but that it was more galling and exten-
sive than any one not immediately acquainted with
that part of the country could imagine. The Petition
prayed that reductions might be made in every
branch of the public expenditure--not only in the
military detainment, but also in the civil list—and
in this prayer he joined heartily—(Lotai cries of
Hear, from the Opposition);—But whilst he united
his voice to that of the Petition for reduction, he had
some explanation to offer for the line of conduct which
he had pursued hitherto. He was one of those who
had voted against the proposed reductions of last
year—not that he had not his objections to a stand-,
ing army, but he thought that a person in ordinary
circumstances could not see the effect which the want
of a military force would produce upon our internal
quiet and external relations. The great distress of
the country now, however, had great weight with
him. As to the' I
reduction in the civil list, he thought
considerable reductions should be made in it, and
that they ought to take place immediately—(Cheers I
from the Opposition).—He would advise a concessionl
to be made by the Crown upon that head, which
would save much disagreeable detail, and a discus-
sion as degrading to the Crown as disagreeable to
that House--(Hear, hear).—These observations he
meant more particularly for the Household ; but they
would apply equally to all the branches of the Royal
Family. He did,nor calculate upon any great sum
being saved, bur it would be conciliating to all classes.
The Petition, after praying for retrenchment, prr
ceeded to pray for the repeal of certain taxes, and
more particularly for an important reduction in the
Malt Duty. Upon this head he was not entirely
agreed with the petitioners; for though it was the
opinion of many Gentlemen that the taking off this
tax would serve the growers of barley, yet as it was
impossible to raise one grain without others, it did
not appear to him that the benefit to be derived to
the agricultural interest from that expedient would
be very extensive—( Hear, hear).—Even if corn could
be raised nine-pence a bushel, it was doubtful whe-
ther it would do much good. Taking off the tax on
Malt could do no great good, unless ether means
were adopted. He thobght these means were within
our power, and that by dispensing with several items
of expense which grew up in the war, an extensive
relief could be exceeded. The Petition closed with
a prayer for Reform. He did not wish to give an
cpinion upon this question now, not understanding
it correctly. It might come one day before the
House in an intelligible shape; but he hoped the
House would not take a step until they had more
satisfactory information upon the subject. He should
not have said this much, but for an expression used
Ilby his colleague more than once, that he would not
deceive his constituents. To this he (Mr. Wodehouse)l
would say, that he was as much disposed to do his'
duty in Parliament as any other Member of it.
Mr. LOCKHART felt himself called Olson to givit
an opinion upon this important question. There were
two points in the petition. The first stated the cause
of the grievance, which was taxation ; and the se-
cond the remedies, which were Reform and Retrench-
ment. It was his opinion, that if the taxes were not
reduced, they ought at least to be more equally di-
divided. It was not true that the fundholder and the
agriculturist were equally taxed. The equilibrium
between the two interests should be preserved, for
whilst one was greatly depressed, the other remained
stationary. Some years ago the rentals of this coun-
try were £51,000,000, now they were reduced ten
millions. The interest of the debt was 31 millions ;
that was regularly paid, and here there was no reduc-
tion. The agricultural interest was burdened exclu-
sively with the support of the clergy and the poor-
rates. That interest was now in the greatest distress.
He did not think Ministers were callous to the distress
of the agriculturists—he believed they were disposed
to relieve them, but their judgment was not sound—
(Hear,froni the Opposition). They had wrong views
of public credit, and the means by which it was to
be upheld— (Hear). They argued that the mainte-
nance of public faith was the support of the agricul-
turist, but he contended for the converse of the posi-
tion, that the relief of the agriculturist was the sup-
port of public credit—(Hear). The well-being of
the agriculturist was essential to the public peace,
and who would say that in a season of disturbance
the public credit was mote secure? Care should be
taken, that by the pressure of distress this country
was not driven to the same state as Ireland—(Hear).
Let the distress bear too heavy upon the middling
classes, who would no longer have the means of pay-
ing the labourer, and there was then no means of
raising the taxes. This was an honest nation if it were
only fairly dealt with. He could assure the House,
that in the West of England and in the Midland
Counties, there were no rents collected, and when
persons could not get their rents, they had not the
means of buying those articles which pay taxes.—
When the middling man was unable to pay the la-
bourer, the latter would be driven to despair. The
wages of labourers were extremely low. In the Mid-
land Counties, a labourer with a wife and family
earned no more than six shillings a week ; and a
healthy man, who before earned fourteen shillings,
could now earn but four. With regard to the pro-
posed plan of relieving the agriculturists by a loan
of £5,000,000, he would say that, from the nature
of landed property the plan was impracticable, as
the required securities could not be entered into.
Every Gentleman in that House was aware of the I
complicated nature of landed property, and that itl,
was impossible for tenants for life, tenants in tail, te-
nants for long terms, not to mention minors and lu-
natics, the latter of whom could not contract at all,
to give the required securities. Added to this, there
was a natural indisposition in all men to subject their
properties to the consequences of extents from the
Exchequer. He thought the House ought to be slow
in giving its sanction to this scheme of a loan, which,
unless the Government advanced it in a different
shape, would have the effect of laying all the landed
property of the kingdom at the mercy of the Crosin
and the Ministers--(Hour). He would not have them

rnien,tlie peke ct aim but he wafi; strict, limits,
SD initiegaititm. •It eras in the last ree absurd that
thire,simuld be as mnells-corn *ported in six weeks
al wnl44. glut the country for three years afterwards.
He concluded by giving the Petition his support.
Mr. LUSHINGTON felt satisfied that the epithet
calloui," as applied to his Right Hon. Friend the
Chancellor of the Exchequer, by an Hon. Member
opposite,, was used inadvertently. and not advisedly.
His Right Hon. Friend was not to b* understood as
arguing against any reduction whatever (Hear, hear,
frost tie Oppositiops}.4out only against reduction car-
ried to such an extent as to put the public credit into
jeopardy (ffear, hear).—His object was to give relief,
and the only diftbrence was as to the objects to whom
it was to be extended.
Mr. HUME said it was clear, from what had fallen
from the Hon. Gentleman, that he was not present
when the Chancellor of the Exchequer made his
statement, and that he had not read the amendment
which he (Mr. HuMe) had the honour to propose—
((Hear, (Fear).—There was nothing in that amendment
,calculated to endanger the public credit; on the
contrary, he stated that he would not recommend
any measure which had such an effect. What he de-
.sired was, that no partial reduction should take place
—that one or two departments should be reduced—
the Naval or Military—but that a general reduction
should take place, and that the taxes should be re-
duced in proportion as the expenditure was lessened
11,—(Hear, hear).—He defied any one to read his
amendment otherwise. The Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer distinctly stated, that if the taxes were re-
duced, it would but aggravate the distress of the
country—(Cries of Hear, hee)—These wei e his
words; hut he (Mr. Hume) was glad to hear the
Right lion. Gentleman change his tone. it was said
by a Right lion. Gentleman below him (Mr. Tierney)
that Ministers would be compelled to retrench, and
he believed that they
,now felt the truth of that asser-
tion. He was sure such a feeling had the effect of
making Ministers give the explanation which the
House had just heard, and he was glad that it had
been made, as he augured well from it—(Hear).
The Petition was then ordered to be printed. •
MASSAGE FROM TIM LORDS.
A Message from the Lords being announced, the Messen-
gers were called in, and communicated their Lordship' re-
queit, that they might be furnished with a copy of the Appen-
dix to the Report of the Agricultural Committee.—Ordered.

ADDRESS TO HIS MAJESTY.
Mr. R. Cuve appeared at the Bar with the Report
,of the Address on his Majesty's Speech. On the
question for the Report being brought up,
Mr. CURWEN was aware, that by agreeing to
this Address he should not pledge himself to any
thing; but though this was a circumstance well'
known to the House, it was not so well known to the
Public, and therefore he could not silently agree to
it. With respect to the Speech from the Throne, he
'thought Ministers had not made such statements in
it as warranted the House in believing them sincere,
and therefore they had no right to expect unanimity.
As to the distresses of the country, he was convinced
we could not go on without either a reduction of
taxation, or a change in the currency. Reduction
was practicable ; this was proved by the offer of Go-
vernment to lend £5,000,000 to persons who had no
security to give. Did they mean to lend this sum with-,
out security ? that would be preposterous ; and did
they believe that, in the present state of the country,
any one who had security would borrow money to
lay out on the cultivation of land ? The fact was,
that the income of the country was diminising, and
that unless some efficient measure of relief was
adopted, public credit could not be long sustained.
A different measure of taxation must be adopted; a
system which would deprive Ministers of influence
perhaps, but would thereby operate very essentially
to aid the cause of Parliamentary Reform—the only
efficient means of benefiting the country.
The Report was then brought up and agreed to, and
the Address ordered to be presented to his Majesty.
STATE OF IRELAND.
Copies of dispatches from Marquis Wellesley to Government
were laid on the table. 1
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose, in pur-'
suance of a notice which he had given on a former
night, to call the attention of the House to that part
of his Majesty's Speech which referred to the present
internal state of Ireland, and he was sure that they
would believe him sincere, when he assured them
that he had never risen to perform a duty with more
painful feelings than he expel fenced on the present
occasion. He had certainly hoped, when he recol-
lected how Ireland had conducted herself of late
years in Very trying circumstances, that they would
be spated the melancholy knowledge that a spirit of
insubordination existed there, which could only be
put down by the strong hand of Justice, and by laws
framed to protect all classes. by repressing disorder.
The task he had to perform was additionally painful
to him on other grounds. He regretted that it had
not fallen to the lot of his Right Hon. Friend, who
was more immediately connected with the Admini-
stration of Ireland than himself, and he could riot
give a more convincing proof that he undertook it
from a sense of imperious duty, than he should offer
when he stated, that not merely his friends in the Ad-
ministration on this side of the water had requested
him to do so, but those who were charged with the
Administration for Ireland had written to him not to
delay bringing it forward, even till the Secretary of
State for the Home Department, and the Chief Se-
cretary for Ireland, could arrive. Under these cir- '
cumstances he threw himself on the indulgence of the
House, while he entered upon the painful duty which',
might have been better discharged by those more
immediately responsible for the state of Ireland.
He was moved to the attempt by every principle of
duty, of policy, and, he might add, by every prin-
ciple of older and mercy, to repress with the least
Ipossible delay, those rebellions which had unhappily
demanded the attention of Government. He begged
,W claim the particular indulgence of the house,
Fon the grounds which be had just mentioned.—
The nature of the subject being of necessity in the
highest degree painful to his feelings, he should con-
fine himself as much as possible in fist stating to the
House the substance of the measures which lie felt it,
necessary to propose; he should then state the grounds
upon which he called upon Parliament to sanction
those measures; and lastly, he should state the pro-
ilsitble duration which they were intended to have.—
He was anxious to proceed • upon every principle of
mercy towards the wretched and *deluded people who
had embarked in the horrible system of outrage of

which Ireland was now the scene. Mid he would
state to the House, that the measures which he had
to propose were considered absolutely necessary to
the safety of the country by that highly esteemed
arid respected individual who was now entrusted with
the Administration of the Government in the Aster
country. Those measures were, the re-enactment of
the Insurrection Act, and the suspension of the Ha_
beas Corpul Act—(Hear, hear). The duration which
he intendathese measures to have was the limited
period of sit months. Thus the House would see
that it retained the power of removing these enact-
ments at the end of the Session, or of • continuing
them, as the urency of the case might demand.
This would particularly apply to the :ascension of
the Habeas Corpus Act, as he sincerely hoped that
there would remain no grounds for its continuance,
tor he would tell the House that there was no
tion to which he could be reduced, more contrary to
his disposition and wishes, than that oi withholCh
from any of his Majesty's subjects the inestimable
advantages of that wilt. These Acts, upon f' timer
occasions, were never in force for so short a ptiina.
The time to which the one was limited, at the occur-
rence of the Manchester conspiracies, was tbre
years. With regard to the Insurrection Ace, Fe
feared that there would still remain a necessity fcr
continuing it in force, when the attention of Parlia.
merit was again called to this unfortunate sub::ecs.
It was scarcely to be-expected, even in case the re-
bellious state of the country should have been stip..
that state
the country
in which couldlhi:tv it
e coulds,tb be f
sided intoie
of tranquillity t
without some extra power being vested in the laws.—
The Noble Lord now at the head of the Administra.
tion in Ireland had been most active, .ince his resi-
dence in that country, in re-organizing the system
of Police, and in endeavouring to place the Civil
Power in such a state of efficiency as, in conjunction
with the means recommended, would render the in.
crease of the military force unnecessary. The Bills
which he was about to move for leave to bring la
would be limited to six months, to expire on the Ist
of. August next, unless necessity should at ise for re-
newing them at the expiration of that period. It was rf
the very first importance that no delay should be al-
lowed in passing some measures for remed)ing the
unhappy state into which Ireland had fallen. They
were not without precedents for passing measures
for the suppression of rebellion at a single sitting.
He confessed, that When he came down to the llou,e
he was disposed to suggest a similar course upon the
present occasion; since that, however, he bad come
to the resolution of proposing that the Bilis should
only. be advanced to the third reading, and then to
pass the other stages and forward them to the Mate
of Lords, and bring them into action as early as 1 os-
sible in the ensaing weelc. He had now the welan-
choly task of adverting to the grounds upon "Lich
these measures were rendered urgently necessary,—
From the official papers laid before the House, it was
impossible not. to draw the conclusion that Ireland
was in actual and open rebellion. 'lhe ontents (f
the two last documents confirmed the existence of a
widely extended conspiracy and rebellion in the
southern counties of Ireland. Most earnestly did he
hope that the wisdom of Parliament might reader it
of. short duration. He trusted that the measures
which he had the honour'of submitting to the House
would be found adequate to the task of convincing
the deluded people of the iniquity of their ciiates,
and of bringing them back to that dutiful and .1110-
missive conduct which alone could expiate thew.
He could only expect the return of order and tran-
quillity by investing in the hands of the Government
those extended powers which were necessary to crush
the rebellion before it assumed a mote formidable
character. For the Parliament to hesitate in graw-
ing such powers, would have the most fatal tenden.7.
They were bound, without loss of time, to place the
same powers in the hands of the Marquis Wellesley
which had been granted to his predecessors in that
high office which he now filled, under circumstances
of a similar nature to that which now demanded
them. Whatever might be the enormity and horri-
ble character of the outrages now committing in Ire-
land, there was at least some consolation in knowi!-g
that they did not originate from religious or political
sources. They did not bear the characteristics which
marked those principles of resistance in general in
other parts of the world—(llear,front the Opposition).
Ile repeated; that he was glad to believe that this re-
bellion did not bear the characteristic of other rebel-
lions. This rebellion was, indeed, founded upon :e-
--sistance to the laws, but it was of a very sliffenalt
nature from those rebellions which originated in bad
political principles, calculated to lead to anything
but liberty—(hear, hear).—But the absence of that
revolutionary character found no reason why it
should not be put down promptly and effectively.—
It was a rebellion against all law, social order, a;!
morality. It was a rebellion against all the prin6-
plea of Government which held society together.—
Directed by an invisible power, whether under
title of Captain Rock, or any other, he cared net,
'dictated crimes and enormities which disgraced man-
kind. It proscribed the honest portion of the lower
classes for their industry and good habits. and the
higher orders for• their character and riches—(lker)•
It endeavoured to deter the upright front discharging
their duty, even when called upon in a Cows 01
Justice. Even the Magistracy were sacrificed as
victims,•for the performance of their official occu-
pations. It was a rebellion of the deluded, idles and
profligate, against everything that was valuable in
society. It was a rebellion stained by all the rne,t
cruel and ferocious crimes—(!fear, !rear).—1 rrn
these grounds it was that he was driven to the .4-
mentable necessity of coming to Parliament Cc: thst
increased power which would be placed in the hands
of the Executive Government, by the }eosins eitle
Bills which he was about to propose. lie had said
that them was nothing political or religious iu the'
character of this rebellion ; bet he would caution the
cHuorousseta7cea.inst‘Ni'nhlor.iCtgldaiif h
security
say, House
permit delay in putting down this insurrection at-
treason, for treason it also certainly was, how too,:
it should be permitted to remain without the aggt•t-
vation of both those characteriAlcs?—( Ilear.
I ie listened with great attention to what was said trf
the Right lion. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Newport,'
on a recent occasion, because the !light llon. 11.11,1-
net knew...lreland well, and Wished well to. its tote
interests. From what then fell ftetniltim, A 4 was
not disposed to anticipate any objection in that Litim•

li.:

ter to the measures which he was submitting to the
House. if. however, he had misunderstood the sen-
timents of the Right Hon. Baronet, the House would
most likely have the benefit of hi; views upon the
qiiestion. The Right Hon. Baronet had admitted
the necessity of coercive measures, but at the same
time he made some allusion to the adoption of a cod-
ciliatory course in conjunction with them. Now he
(the Noble Marquis) must protest against this prin-
ciple altogether. Nothing could be more fatal to
the object they had in view than yielding anything
like concession to these deluded people, while they
remained in opposition to the laws of their country.
This was not the time for concil:Ation ; the only ob-
ject which ought to engross their attention at the
ism.ent moment was, the danger and exigency of
these horrid outrages, and the imperative neces-
sity of crushing them at once. They must not now
be occupied with discussing the system of Govern-
1-tnent in Ireland. or the various causes which were
assigned bv as producing the dread-
state into which that country was plunged.—
There could not ros,ihly exist a more fatal principle,
than that of holding out to an insurgent people the
:.lizhtest notion of any alteration in the government
or the laws. Br such a line of proceeding, the House
would be holding out the most direct premium to
future insurrectionary movements. And whatever
cnormi:ies they committed now, the instruments of
anothc:- rebellion might be expected to go still fur-
ther their crimes and their atrocities. This was
herrMe enough, without having the prospect con-
<anti.: before their eyes of succeeding ones marked
by atr:•cties of a still deeper dye. This rebellion
went already to the extent of secret combinations for
di; i.iing lands, and seizing upon property which pro-
duce.' more than a certain income. It was, in fact,
a rebellion of murder and plunder, carded on by in-
visible agents, who would be sure to make Ireland
the scene of future insurrection and lawless outrage,
if anything were conceded upon the present occasion.
The noose would therefore see the impropriety and
,:anger of mixing conciliation with the measures they
right think fit to adopt in the present emergency.
T:ie time for conciliatory measures, and for exami-
pv.ion into the causes of the distress which no doubt
e..isted in Ireland, would be when its people had re-
turned to a tranquil state of graceful obedience to
the I:1—s. AU political or religious topics should be
cnoended in the present time of danger and alarm.
• t
The Catholic Body, on a former similar occasion,
Lcting wisely, judiciously, .::rd temperately, ab-
s:ained I:orri bringing their claims before the Parlia-
rleat. He was confident that they would now pursue
the s.tine line of conduct; for the existence of these
(I:,turbances must have the effect, if no other cause
c2erated, of rejection for their claims. With regard
:1 conciliation, as far as it was practicable without
involving them in concession to the insurgents, he
tl: )tight that the delay in bringing the subject before
Parliament was the greatest pledge of a conciliatory
disposition which the Government could afford.—
Government had waited anxiously and very patiently
with the hope that the disturbances might be sup-
pressed without the necessity of making the present
s:rlication to Parliament. The military forces were
ivreased, but they were found to be inadequate
to the object. They could not drive the insurgents
from their fastnesses; and, in one instance, they dis-
covered a tamp where they had been formed, and
i• which they had left various martial implements.
F- •,Y1 the Special Commission much had been ex-
But its labours produced no permanent ef-
fect. The noble individual who presided over the
Iri,b Government, was most anxious to ameliorate
the condition of the people of Ireland, and to attach
them more closely to the House of Hanover; and he
(Lord Wellesley) was of opinion that the surest me-
thod of accomplishing that object, was to enforce a
due obedience to its authority, and to the institutions
which were supported under its sway. From this
conviction he was prepared to take the responsibility
of administering these laws, if the Parliament, in its
wisdom, should think fit to enact them. It was with
the most painful feelings that he had to communi-
cate to the House, intelligence of the commission of
fresh outrages, exceeding, in their bloody and fero-
cious character, those described in the papers then
in the hands of Members. (The Noble Marquis here
described the attack on and murder of the policemen,
given in the Star of yesterday.) It was to be remarked
that all these outrages were committed in the night,
and that the object of the Bills was to make persons
responsible for not being in their houses at the pro-
per time for retirement and rest. He trusted he should
not be called on for any further information, which
induced the head of the Irish Government to think
the suspension of the Hitheas Corpus Act necessary.
Ile believed it was common for the house to place
so much confidence in the Ministers of the Clown,
in all cases of great public exigency, as not to re-
quire from them the information on which they acted
upon their own responsibility. He was happy that,
Iris Majesty's visit to Ireland had been attended with
that expression of attachment and affection on the
part of the people, which was so gratifying to an
Irishman's heart. That visit had produced a degree
of union where the fiercest division had previously
existed. And notwithstanding that individuals had
endeavoured to push unanimity tot, far, it still re-
mained as the monument of his Majesty's presence,
and as an earnest of the benefit to which that pre-
sence was to give rise in time to come. The great
mass of the population was sound in its loyalty, and
attachment to the laws ; but some were driven to their
destruction by distress. At present the outrages were
confined to the ignorant and the uneducated, and
betrayed no symptoms of a religious or a political
character. If, however, the Parliament should hesi-
tate in granting powers for putting it down at once,'
it might receive those stimulating additions, and the
whole country, educated as well as ignorant, might
be involved in it. He trusted that he had now laid
the subject before the House, briefly but fully, and
that in so doing he had said nothing that could pro-
voke unnecessary discussion. If the House was dis-
po'ed to grant these powers, they could not be put
into action too speedily. With that view of the ques-
tion he should press the passing of the Bills with as
little delay as possible. Ilia Right Hon. Friend,who
%mild be enabled to give the House more information
thin) he po sibly could, he meant the Chief Secre-
tary (Sir. Goulburn),.had arrived in town that day,
frs :.. Ireland, and would shortly take his seat in
Lb.: House. He should now move—" That leave
be given to bring in a Bill for the prevention of

outrage and disturbance, and for putting down rebel-
lion in Ireland." -
Sir JOHN NEWPORT began by claming the
indulgence of the House, which he had much more
cause to ask than the Noble Lord. However painful
also, might be the subject
_to the Noble Ldtd, it was
not less so to him. No one could have a higher opi-
nion than he had of the spirit, talents, and ability of
the Noble Lord, who was now appointed to the Go-
vernment of Ireland. It was to him most painful to
admit the necessity of coercion to put down the exist-
ing disturbances ; but at the same time, it was satis-
factory to him to know, that he at least had no par-
ticipation in the measures which produced them. The
blame of that must attach to his Majesty's Ministers
—(Hear, hear).—To elucidate this, he begged to
move that the Clerk should read a Motion from the
Journals of the House, dated June 17, 1817-
The Clerk here read the Motion, which was—" That an
humble Address be presented to the Prince Regent, praying that
his Royal Ilighneu would graciously please to direct such a de-
liberate and accurate inquiry, during the prorogation of Parlia-
ment, into the state and condition of the People of Ireland, as
would develope the nature and point oat the causes of the evils
which affected that part of the United Kingdom, and devise
such efficacious and salutary remedies as appeared most adequate
to accomplish that object ; and, in the emphatic words of the
Act of Union, promote the prosperity and consolidate the
strength and resources of the Empire."'
The Right Hun. Baronet (in continuation) said,
that the 'feller upon the negative of that motion was
the Secretary of State for the Home Department
(Mr. Peel)—(Hear, hear).—lf the proposed inquiries
had been made at that period, the present measures
would not now have been called for, for the existing
evils would have been prevented--(Hear).--How
then could the Government who negatived that pro-
position come down to the House, to ask for powers
of such a description as those which should be granted
by the enactment of these Bills? He knew that Ire-
land now required coercive measures; hut he differed
from the Noble Lord as to the nature of those mea-
sure:. The disturbances were altogether unconnected
with the Constitution, and he was not disposed to give
them any connection with it, by suspending its very
spirit. In framing new measures, some consideration
ought to be had to the laws which were already in ex-
istence. The Whiteboy Act did as much as the Insur-
rection Act itself would do in one respect; for it ren-
dered it penal to be out after son-set, in the same man-
ner as that Act did. He was disposed to place all confi-
dence in the Marquis Wellesley, but there was nothing
in the dispatches which expressed the opinion of that
Nobleman as to the necessity of the proposed measures.
—lie was unhappily convinced that nothing but se-
verity would bring back the people to their duty.—
But instead of granting these measures and vesting
such powers in the local Magistrates, he would in-
crease the military power. The papers of which the
House were in possession, contained no statements
upon which the proposed measures appeared to be
necessary. The Insurrection Act provide 1, that any
man found out of his house after sun-set, and before
sun-rise, under any pretext—any occupier of a house
being found absent from it at those periods—any per-
son proposing or taking unlawful oaths, were liable
to transportation. And chat not by the verdict of a
Jury—(/tear)—but by the direction of Magistrates.
It was impossible to say that such a law could be'
placed upon the Statute-book, without the most pres-
sing exigency being proved to exist. The Noble Lord
had informed them, that the Acts were only to be in
force until the Ist of August. As to the suspension of
the Habeas Corpus Act, he would ask the Noble Lord
when it had been enforced without grounds, very
different from those which existed in the present case?
The Noble Lord had deprecated any movements at
this perioJ, of those who supported the Catholic
Claims. Now, he being one• of a party who at all
times had declared that the only true basis upon
which the tranquillity and happiness of Ireland could
be established, was an equalization of civil rights
amongst all classes of its people, he could not be ex-
pected to subscribe to the doctrine which the Noble
Lord had advanced—(hear, hear).—But let it not
be conceived that in the remotest degree he could
countenance the conduct of those wretched men who
were involving their country in destruction. To do
so would be doing the greatest injustice to himself
and his friends. He did not differ with the Noble
Lord upon the necessity of putting down these out-
rages; he differed with him as to the means of doing
so: he did not differ with him as to the necessity of',
punishing the criminal; but he could not agree to the
mode which he recommended. He wished them to
be brought back to a full and due obedience to the
laws, and that Ireland should receive her deserved
share of the benefits, the protection, and the blessings
of the British Constitution.
Mr. HUTCHINSON said no man felt more keenly
than he did the painful situation in which an Irish
Gentleman was placed at this crisis, yet he was as
anxious as the Noble Marquis himself to afford pro.
tection to the country. That there was a certainty of
being able to put down the rioters by the existing laws,
he knew. The insurgents had been always found con-
temptible when opposed by a sufficient force. The
alarm caused by the disturbances was felt only in the
West or South-west of Ireland, and he had no doubt
that four or five thousand troops would put down
these disturbances in one mouth. The Hon. Gentle-
man here warmly condemned the avowed intention
of the Noble Lord to attempt carrying the proposed
Acts through all their stages that night. The Noble
Lord seemed to think, that if he armed the Lord.
Lieutenant of Ireland with force sufficient to put down
the present disturbances in Ireland, that permanent
tranquillity would follow. In fact Ireland never could
be quieted until the situation of the country was
changed. The state of the peasantry must be changed ;1
the tythe system, in particular, must be altered, be.l
fore tranquillity could be expected. The state of the'
peasant in Ireland was worse than in the most bar-
barous part of Europe ; and in this assertion he had
the concurrence even of every stranger who visited it.
Lord MOUNT CHARLES said he must give his
vote and concurrence to the Noble Lord, after the ma-
turest consideration. Nothing but the measures pro-
posed could put down insurrection and rebellion, for
such it now was in Ireland. He was aware that the
Acts were unconstitutional, but there were times when
such Acts were indispensably required.
Mr. S. RICE could not give a silent vote upon the
present occasion. The last speaker had been in favour
of the resolutions; but had thought all inquiry un-
necessary. Ile (Mr. Rice) did not object to measures
of coercion; and would say, that, if the existing laws
were not adequate, let new laws be enacted. But

bad the present enactments been foond effectual on
former occasions? No; they had Seen tried. and
failed: hems, from the time of the Union, nothing
bad been dewier the advantage of Ireland. It had'
been stated by the Noble Lord that there was nothing
political in the present disturbances. Than why sus
pend the Habeas Corpus Act, solely adapted to dis-
turbances of a political nature? At the same time,
he thought that. by a slight alteration' in the Com-
mittee, tbe Insurrection Act might be made avail-
able. But no opportunity was afforded by the course
pursued by the Noble Lord—•(Cris hea►, hear.)
-To the mode•of trial under that Act, be must ob-
ject, as, by a temporaryremedy, a lasting evil would
be incurred. The trial was to take place before the
local Magistrates. who might dispense with a Jury,
if they thought fit. But he had never heard that the
experiment of a Jury had been tried by any "Magis-
trate. The late Mr. Ponsonby had stated, in his
place, that the waiter of an inn had been appointed a
Magistrate. But he would hot trust the Magistracy
of England with such powers ; nor would he trust
himself, amidst the circumstances of irritation that
daily took place. He could state acts on the part of
Irish Magistrates that shewed them unfit for the pos-
session of such powers. The Hon. Member next al-
luded to certain Resolutions passed at a Meeting held
in the county of Limerick, and which did not appear
in the papers before the House. The Resolutions
prayed for the meeting of Parliament in November,
for an inquiry into the state of Ireland. Next to the
tithe-system, the disturbances were to be ascribed to
the distillery laws, and out of a totak of 16,000
convictions, 4000 arose from breaches of those laws.
In fact,. the Chancellor of the Exchequer was the
most efficient ally of Captain Rock. He saw no one
reason for the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act.
Would it be proposed to suspend the Act in England
on similar grounds? He called on the English
Members not to enact for Ireland what they would
not suffer in their own case. He also deprecated the
precipitate mode of hurrying the other Bill through
the House—(liear).
Captain O'GRADY said, it was from experience
that the Gentlemen of the County of Limerick (who
knew best wlait was necessary) had altered their opi-
nion in favour of a modified Insurrection Act for one
without any qualification. With respect to the dis-
tresses from which some of those evils were said to
have sprung, there was no man who more sincerely
deplored them than he did : he deeply lamented the
miseries which afflicted his countrymen, and none
did he regret more, thanthat intolerable nuisance the
tithe system—(Hear).
Mr. DAWSON supported the motion.
Sir H. PARNELL said, from all he had learned,
he felt convinced that nothing short of the proposed
coercive measures would be sufficient to restore tran-
quillity to Ireland.
Mr. BUTLER was of opinion that strong measures
were necessary, yet he did not consider that reli-
gion or politics were connected with the present dis-
turbances. The causes were entirely local, and that
was one reason why he did not consider the Magis-
trates as the best judges—(Hear, hear).
Mr. GRATTAN thought that the law empower-
ing Magistrates to transport the disaffected or to con-
fine them, would not eradicate the evils complained of.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT expressed his surprise
at the conduct of the Noble Lord (Londonderry), who,
for upwards of twenty years, had the opportunities of
knowing the real state of ',eland, of ascertaining the
numerous evils which pressed upon her, and of be-
coming acquainted with their causes, yet had neg-
lected all inquiries, had delayed every remedy, until
now that he called upon the House to put down by
force those mischiefs which he himself had thus neg-
ligently suffered to accumulate (Hear).—He was sur-
prised that the Noble Lord should have the face to get
up in that House and call for a repetition of those acts
of dreadful oppression (for such he would call them,
however necessary), without giving to the Legislature
an opportunity of inquiring into the nature and origin
of the evils for which these palliatives were required.
Was it to be tolerated, that Ireland should know no-
thing of this country, but by bloodshed and the gibbet?
He perceived that every Member who gave his sup-
port to the proposed measures, did so with consider-
able reluctance, as if convinced that the remedy of
the evil did not lie in them. He was glad to witness
this sympathy, and he trusted they would act up to
its suggestions by compelling the Noble Lord to look
about him, and to do what he had so long and so
grossly neglected. It was said that the disturbances
in Ireland did not arise from any political feelings.
He firmly believed they did not. It was impossible
that greater affection towards the Sovereign could be
evinced, or that a stronger sense could be entertained
of the compliment paid them on that occasion, than
was shewn by the Irish people in the recent visit of
his Majesty to their country. This feeling was not
limited—it was generally felt throughout the island.
That visit had, he believed, done some good ; but it
was impossible that his Majesty should work miracles.
He would admit that acts of great outrage had been
committed, and that their repetition ought to be pre-
vented. He, in common with all others, condemned
them; yet it should be known that they were not the
result of deep wickedness, but arose from the pres-
sure of such accumulated miseries, that no man who
lifted his arm to prevent or avenge the injury, but
must deplore the fate of the unfortunate beings who
had been driven to its commission—(Hear).—The
Hon. Baronet again adverted to what he declared to
be gross neglect in the Noble Lord (Londonderry),
who had been a main instrument in effecting the
Union between the two countries, and thereby de-
prived Ireland of that which might, perhaps, have
worked her salvation; but who had, during a series
of years, suffered those evils to increase, and taken
no one step to prevent them—(Hear).—He would
not go further into the subject at present ; but con-
clude by saying, that if England wished to retain
possession of Ireland, she must alter her system ; and
he might add, that it would be much better to get
rid of her altogether, thah attempt to preserve our
authority by a system of injustice—(Hear).
Mr. GILBERT said, he had no objection to some
strong measures for the purpose of putting down the
present outrages ; but he would maintain, that unless
they were accompanied by measures of conciliation,
and an earnest endeavour to redress the numerous
evils with which Ireland was afflicted, they would
only have the effect of considerably increasing the
irritation that prevailed in that country. He would
.mention as one cause of that litigation, the tithe sys-

.

Tim If rut ere meet 'flaked was to be kali&
Omar, it mdithi by. the teat abo)ition .of that sys-
lins. ife war delimit dotilldibg inch extensive pima')
is by these Acts *add be given, to the Magistracy,
is it was well' known, that 'in Ireland *tutice was
bought and sold—(Cheersfrems the dlp,' •). •
Mr. A BERC RO MBY could' not agree to a suspen-
sion of the Habeas Corpus Act, in the absence of any
Case to prove its necessity; and he tontended.thatibe
Noble Lord bad shewn no reasonable ground Why
the people or Ireland should be deprived of their'b.
betty. He could affirm, from information which he
had himself received that morning, and upon which
he could implicitly rely, that in the afroqty of Cork
the appearances of insurrection had entirely ceased.
The only additional Instance of outrage which hid
come to the knowledge of the Public sance the writing
of the Marquis Wellesley's last dispatch, was a mur-
der committed la the northern part of the county of
Cork ; but that outrage, gross and violent as it was,
I did not appear to be of a political nature, and cer-
tainly did not justify the application of the word re-
bellion, in the sense that the Noble Lord had used

it. He would maintain that there was no rebellion
in Lieland; and that to call the present disturbances
by that name was impoliticras it tended to inspire the
disaffected with a confidence in the strength of their
own cause, which at present they by no means felt.
if nothing *as to be granted to Ireland, because a
part of it was disturbed, it became the duty of Ron.
Members to ask what boon had been granted to it—
what benefits had been conferred upon it, when it en-
joyed a state of perfect tranquillity?--(Hear, hear).
What had Government done for it on the Catholic
Question (Hear, hear), that important question, on
which the Cabinet was divided amongst themselves?
What had Government done for it on the subject of
tithes ?-4Hear, hear). It. was true that a Member
of it had brought into Parliatnent.a Bill, which had
excited hopes that the almost intolerable grievances
of the present tithe sys►em would be redressed ; bat
why had he allowed it to drop ?—(lfear). What had
Government done for it as to the revision of the Ma-

gistracy—a measure which had been so often pro-
mised, and so often neglected?—(Hear, hear). In-
deed, be might ask what had Government done for
that unfortunate nation in the way of abolishing any
one of the numerous grievances by which it was af-
flicted ?—(flea). He could not recollect a single
measure which they had adopted for its ameliori-
don ; and as it was too much to allow it to know
nothing of England and English legislation, except
from harsh and coercive measures, he should cer-
tainly vote against the proposition of the Noble
Lord—(Loud cheering).
Mr. HUME was anxious to put a question to the
Noble Lord. He was of opinion that the House
should go immediately into the tithe system in Ire-
land. His friends knew that that system in England
and Ireland had long occupied his attention; and he
now wished to knew whether the Noble Marquis would
support a motion for a Committee to inquire into the
tithe system of Ireland, which he would propose to
the House?
Sir L. COLE rose to defend the conduct of the
Lord Chancellor of Ireland, regarding the appoint-
ment and revision of the Magistracy.
Mr. GILBERT, in consequence of what had fallen
from the last speaker, wished to mention a tact which
had come within his knowledge. He had transmitted
to the Lord Chancellor four affidavits, accusing a Ma-
gistrate of gross misconduct. Not receiving any an-
swer to the letter which he sent along with them, he
called on the Lord Chancellor, to learn the effect
which the affidavits had produced. He was then in-
formed that an examination had been made into the
conduct of the Magistrate; that he had pleaded guilty
in part to the charges preferred against him; that he
had attributed his errors to having been misled by a
book called Macnallys Justice; and that he had flung
himself entirely upon the clemency of his Lordship.
The consequence was, that the man still retained his
situation as a Magistrate—(Loud cries of Hear, from
all parts of the House).
Mr. D. BROWNE said, that he should not feel
himself justified in voting for so monstrous a pro-
ceeding as the Insurrection Act, except upon the most
clear, absolute, and overpowering necessity.
Mr. C. GRANT said, that he gave his vote in fa-
vour of the proposition of the Noble Marquis frOm
sad and melancholy conviction of the necessity of re-
sorting to some such measure as the Insurrection Act
—(Hear). About a year anaa half ago, he had had
the honour of stating his opinions of that measure to
the House at considerable length, and he must new
say that his opinions were still as hostile as formerly
to the principles on which ifwas founded, and to the
expediency of making it part of thepermanent system
of policy under which Ireland was to be governed—
(Lcud cheering). But although such were his opinions,
declaredooo, on a former occasion, still he never
bad contended that casts might not arise in which
it would be expedient to sacrifice a public principle to
a fatal exigency of the State. he. had a melancholy
satisfaction in feeling that the vote which he was that
night to give *ak more a vote of confidence in the
person to whom the administration of Ireland was con-
fided, than a vote which could be sanctioned by any
principle of sound legislation—(Cries of Hear, hear).
Although no such 'measures as it was now proposed
to adopt were necessary when he left Ireland, still he
was convinced that circumstances had now so far
chauged as to require their adoption—(Hear).—The
papers, indeed, at preient on their table, certainly did
not appear to him sufficient to justify t4em—(Hear,
hear)—and if it had not been for the information that
day received in town, he, for one, would not hive
granted to Government the powers which it had de-
manded—(Hear, hear) He now granted those powers
with the greater willingness, because they were to be
entrusted to a•Nobleman whose general intentions to-
wards Ireland fully' concurred with his own—(Hear,
hear)—a Nobleman, who he was sure would not
allow any temporary circumstances to thwart. the
generous views which he entertained towards that
ill-fated but high-spirited people—(cheers).--
He was quite confident that the
whom lie alluded, would never
extraordinary' powers without deem,
lutely necessary. He was quite -
tamed those power* he would use
and humanity, and would feel
himself the more for the welfare
fellow-subjectp-inerrq
sion walla lae Atie ato
quirt' was institutcdinto the state

.

I

Km sure would ' not
mccs to thwart. the
rtained towards that
ople—(Cheer.s).--,
le noble personage.to
have asked for any k
deeming them abso- f
sure that having gb-
i,
;e them with prudence
l stimulated to exert
and happiness of his
trusted that the Ses-
i' elapie before an in-
Le of Ireland—(blear.)