Star.
London, England, 1831-06-28 00:00:00

NERPOUNDLAND.

Mr. ROBINSON asked theUnder.Secretaty of the
Colonies whether it was intended to grant a local legislature
to Newfoundland ; whether they were to be protected In
their right to fish on the French coast. and whether it was
intended to bring in an Act to revise the administration of
justice in Newfoundland ?
Lord HOWICK said the case of Newfoundland had at.
tracted the serious attention of Government, and it was their
opinion that the colonists should have a more direct com-
munication with the Crown than at present. The claim of
English subjects to fish on the French coast sae disputed,
and how it might be decided it was impossible to say at pre.
sent. There was no intention to bring in any Act to amend
the administration of justice during the present Session.
Mr. ROBINS(►? then gave notice, that on the 26th of
July, he should make a motion relative to the present condi-
tion of Newfoundland.

Mr. ROBINSON then moved for a return of the quantity
of gloves imported during the last year, and the duty paid
thereon.—Ordered.
Sir C. DOUGLAS presented a petition from the Noble.
men, Justices of Peace, and Commissioners of Supply of the
County of Forfar, against the Bill of Reform brought in by
Ministers.

Captain ROSS said, be was confident ninety-nine in one
hundred of the inhabitants of Forfar were favourable to the
plan of Reform brought forward by Ministers.
Sir C. DOUGLAS said, he did not present the petition
as the petition of the inhabitant', but of the respectable
sons by whom it was signed.
Mr. DUNDAS asked the Lord Advocate whether steps
were taken to bring the rioters in Scotland to justice ?
The LORD ADVOCATE said four persons were in-
dieted, and other eases were under investigation.
Mr. KENNEDY said nothing could be mote sound and
loyal and peaceable, than the disposition of the people of
' Scotland--(hear, hear,)—tht•ugh enthusiasm in the cause of
Reform, and still mote the opposition of the discontented,
had in a few instances led to acts of violence, hut nothing
to justify the imputation east on them, that when Scott&
men assembled in numbers bloodshed was the consequence.
Sir W. RAE said the lower orders of Facetchmen were an
orderly people, very difficult to be cached, but when ex-'
cited, their conduct was marked by violence which often het
to bloodshed. This was what he had said on a former oc-
casion, not that Scotchmen could not meet in numbers
without bloodshed. (A great burgh.)
Mr. C. ADANI stated, that in Stirlingshire. where the
Reform Candidate was unsuccessful, his numerous sup-
porters reversed their colours and marched off the ground
without violence. or any expression of dissatisfaction.
Sir 0. CLERK said, the rioters were encouraged by the
opinion that Government would not bring thtm to punish.
I punt. He hoped the Learned Lent would attend to a notice
' that was given for a meeting at Glasgow if the Reform Bill
should be thrown out, who were to meet with black flags
and march to the dead march in Saul —(A reit laugh.)
He hoped the Lord Advecate would inform them that such
a meeting would be illegal.
Mr. FERGUSON said, he was confident it would be
found that not one !moon to whom the elective franchise
was to be•tommunicated was concerned in the riots in Scot-
land, from one end of the country to the other.—(Hear,
hear, hear.) if riot was an injury to any cause, it was to
the cause of Refurm. The question was, was Reform a tit
measure ? If it was, then the excitement was to be anti.
butcd to those by whom it was opposed --(Hear. hear.)
The LORD ADVOCATE said, a great meeting had
been held in Glasgow in favour of Reform, with the greatest
order and decorum. (Hear, hear )
Mr. DICKSON said, he rose to give the most unquali-
fied contradiction to the calumnious statement of the right
hon. baronet (Sir G. Clerk.)—(Cries of order.)
The SPEAKER said, the hon. gentleman must be more
circumspect in his language. (Hear.)
' Mr. DICKSON said be did not mean to impute calumny '
to the hon. baronet. (A laugh.) The hon. baronet thought
to intimidate the House with the black flag and •• Dead
March is Saul. (A great laugh.) There was a meeting of
upwards of 411,000 in Glasgow, and nothing•eould be more
peaceable than their conduct. (Hear.) He was confident
that nine hundred and ninety-oint out of evesy thouiriod of
the inhabitants of Glasgow, were in favour of reform,

Mr. STANLEY said, if the Noble Lord should make a
motion on the subject, it would be properly replied to.
Mr. O'CONNELL said, if the Noble Lord made a mo-
tion for the production of the correspondence, he would
second it. It wu impossible that the prosecution could be
continued. There were meetings in Ireland for the repeal
of the Union, but they violated no law. The statute under
which the prosecution was commenced was one which no
minister would dare to propose in England. He was am-
plest! to see a person of the noble load's station so anstoos
for a prosecution.
Sir C. WETHERELL said the noble lord at the head of
the government had said, that he would continue that sta-
tute, and the noble lord opposite said he would ritti.er incur
a civil war than not continue it.—(No, no, from Lord Al.
thorp and the treasury bench.) The learned gentleman ap-
peared to censure his noble friend because he was a man of
rank, but the noble lord at the head of the government and
the noble lord opposite, were both men of rank at present—
how long they should continue so it was impossib'e for hint
to say. The government promised to bring the learned gen-
tleman to Indgment, and did not ; why was that ? They
might say the law had dropped, but why did they ullow the
law to drop ? The poles could not be more distant than the
government and the learned gentleman on that occasion, now
they appeared to be on the most intimate terms ofiriendship.
Lord ALTIfORP said the strong expression he Inul
used Walk that he Xiis MAW the rep's& of tha iiwiee would
lead to thsdismemberment of the empire, and sooner than
consent to that he would even incur the evil of a civil war ;
but he never said any thing so monstrous as that he would
incur civil war rather than forego the prosecution of Mr.
O'Conn:ll.—( Hear, hear.)
Sir E. SUODEN thought It was impossible for Govern.
ment to contfnue the prosecution after the Act of Parliament
had expirod.
Mr. O'CONNELL said he wilted to make an observa-
tion on the soiemn buffoonery they had just bear .l from the
learned Gentleman below him (Sir Charles
Lord STE WA RT rose to order.
Th.: SPEAKER said Mr. (YCunnell might explain.
Mr. O'CONNELL said he should not trouble the Home
with explanation.—(Cries of spoke-31r. O'Connell s:t
down).
A MEMBER said he had just come ;from Portsmouth.
where there was a large fleet ready for sea ; he wished to
know its object—was it liosile ?
Sir J. GRAHAM said the fleet was not assembled for
any hostile purpose, but merely to practise those evolutions
which were necessary to the maimenancJ of perfection in
naval warfare.

Tlie House resolved itself into a Commince of Ways and
Altana ; Mr. Bernal in the Chair.

ORDNANCE. EATINIATES.
Mr. TENNYSON moved the estimates, which he prefaced
saying that as they had all been agreed to before, but had
been prevented from being granted on account of the sudden
dissolution. they required no introduction. TI ey were as
follows :—.For Great Britain, Ireland, and the Colonies,
1,418,8171. which were sub-divided into 22 votes,
Tower, Pall-mall, and Dublin. 80,6191.
Ikpartments Woolwich, 9,0891.
Home Stations. 17,7051.
Ordnance Stations in Ireland and Abroad, 27,7211.
Barracks, tke. 40,7561.
Fur Master-Gunners, Great Britain, Irelentl, Stc..i.2l 11.
Royal Engineers, Sapper, and Miners, kc 81.3281.
/Wye' Artillery, 278,4391.
Horse Artillery and Riding-house Troop. 36,216.
Field Train Department, 1,:1231.
Medical Establishment, 9,2181.
Academical Establishment, 3,4021.
For ►uperintendence of Ordnance. &c. 61 2001.
Ordnance and Barrack 11'orks, Repairs, and Storekerp-
era' Department*, 96.7831.
Barrack-masters' Allowance*, Expenditure. &z. 61,334
Military and Civil ContinAcsicie's; 146.2191. "` •
Foe Unprovided or Evr.u.rtlimpiesi, 27,9741. •
Military Store Branch, 69,9301.
Excheqrser Foes, 1,6001.
Charges of The Superannuated List, 297,1191.
Votes on the same List of 60,1151.15% lOJ.
Exchequer Fees, 6351.
Mr, HUME in the course of moving the Estintates p :t a
qaestion regarding the Half-pay List.
Mr. TENNYSON rose, and explained.
Sir H. HARDING E wished to know whether or not
there was any difference in the arrangement of the present
from the late government in the Ord:iAncc Estimates, as he
thought, from the tenour of the introduction, an imputation
was conveyed.

Mr. TENNYSON explained, and Sir H. 11.1 CHM NOR
expressed himself satisfied.
Mr. HUNT said he was glad that the quei.ti..n had b:en
put by the Hon. Baronet, or o therwhe he should have:gano
away with a wrong impression. and that the remarks meant
to imply reflection on the 14:e tiovernment.—(llear, hear,
from the Opposition benches.)
Mr. 11U3IE temarked, that if :he Hon. Member had
been in his place last Session shot this question was dis-
cussed, as he believed he had been. he might haws
known that objections had tom made, and that the lien.
Member for Preston might have known that he ( Mr.
Hume) had pointed out objections, but that he had with-
drawn all opposition, well knowing that his 'Alajest *et
ministers had enough to encounter on ether accounts, and
also that he had withheld his opposition until they were free
from their existing burdens
Sir JAMES GRAHAM, in his answer to question. re-
halve to the navy, stated that the fleet now in apparent cie.
cups ion, had been ordered out without any p minder des:;.
nation, merely for the purpose of practice in evolution, and
by detail showed that a reduction had been mule in the navy
of upwards of two thousand men.
Mr. HUAI R, in replying to another portion of the coneer-
nation, said, that the fleet, he had understood, had been Oc.
tained from putting to sea, and would be tatainol fur a fon.
night or sixteen days, and that this was nut for want of
seamen, for there were many idle who would be glad of ea..
ployment, but that it was because a man might. under the
present laws of the navy, be liable to be flogged withou:
being brought to a court martial. It was at prevent only
necessary to send in a report to the Admiralty once a fins.
night that such punishment had been inflicted. Whenever
the law was so altered that a sailor should not be subjects
to the chance of being punished at the caprice of a single
individual, then they would soon have plenty to offer their
services; and he hoped that the day was not far distant
when an alteration would be made to accomplish that Dile:.
Sir J. {GRAHAM said, he agreed in the importance of
making the King's service acceptable and agreeable to his
subjects. Nothing had been wanting on his part, and on that
of' his predecessors, to effect this desirable object. The last
step taken by the late Board of Admiralty had made much
more rigid the controul over the infliction by Captains ..t'
corpotcal punishments. Detailed statements, in writing, of
the circumstances which had led to the punishment were re.
quired to be drawn up and forwarded to the Admiralty every
quarter. The present Board had gone a step farther, ',qui:-
ing a statement a fortnight after the occurrence of the pis
nishrnent, and submitting it toe double investigation.l. The
entire abolition of corporeal punishments, he considered lens
possible ; but Government endeavoured to diminish their ne-
cessity by offering rewards for good conduct. The power of
appointing to the office of boatman, which had been vested
in the Treasury, and had been used for patronage purposes,
the place being given to landsmen, had been transferred to
the Board of Admiralty, to be given to seamen of at least
three years' service, who war beat entitled to it by their good
conduct. The Board of Customs had also intimated, that
by good behaviour a title would also be given to the office
of tide-waiters. lie thought that there and similar measures
would be strong inducements to good conduct. (Hear.)
After a few words from Sir li. CLERK, Mr. HUM E,
and Sir J. GRAHASI,
Mr CHOKER rose merely to suggest, in allusion to
certain order issued by the Boyd of Admiralty, prohibiting
naval officers of a certain rank from attending at Court.
which was subsequently recalled—that dun was nothing et*
which that House was so jealous as the subjection of officers
on half-pay to military command.
Sir J. ORAHAII said, the order did sot specify h..'.°.
pay officers.
Mr. CROKER said, the order, if intended ferC'oflicirs
on full pay, would have been transmitted throogh the Ci.:;l.
mending officers He called on the First Lewd of the Ad.
miralty diatiactly to state whether be combined the
of Admiralty to have power over the hal_ t-pay eilleersl ;;e
(Mr. Croke) ?soled this pore:. He aboa make a motion
an the sab)tet.

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Sit t; II AllA \I would make tLe answi ",11:n du mo.
C. n cam, on.
cytt)K RR said the motion depended on the answer.

Sir 3 (i 'LANA M made no reply.
91►. CHOKER asked whether a report. which had excited
stant •er,sation in the city, that the island of Sheppey WAS to
be tack a place of depot for goods comirg from parts
it L. ett 11 by the cholera tilt:Thus. tt.ts true?
S:r 13. MARTIN said. Government Impel such a course
wean: not be necessary. It would f• • the last resource adopted
tr•t the item for theta!): r ses of transporting convicts..
mr.1117 tt E asked wbetker some steps were not to be taken
to diminish the crormons ex !tense incut red in transporting
enr.vtcts ? He had also to ask. whether they were to main.
min a naval squadron on ae Coat of Africa, at the expense
ot 1.0 0001. annually. fur the puting down of the slave trade,
whin It was notori.•us act it was n .w carried on in a worse
i.ar.teter th before i: Tens td.clislied by this country. Three
~:.es more slartv vote now maned from Africa than for-
ts:oly. 'The interference of this country should he either
made tfret• tial or done awry with. The present system was
the ruin of our \Vest India colonies, because the planters of
the t.• Inttles carrying on the slave trade had their slaves at
t• h less price than our planter... mid, consequently, could
teture their sugar at lest price.
A tt. r a few word. !rum COL St BTHORTE anti 31r. ClLOltalt,

. „
Sit .1 GRAHAM said, the gradual intrease of the trade
a t to there being no treaty for a mutual right of
te:.rehing vessels on the coast of /Utica. The flag under
hich the greatest traffic was carried on was that of France.
Ear: tst remonstrance had been offered on this subject to the
Fr. ncli Government. _ _ _

.....
After a few words from Mr. Croker, Mr. C. Pelham, Mr.
Evans. Mr. Mime, and Mr. K. Douglas, on this subject.
b:r J. GRA lIAM, in answer to a question from Mr.
(*raker, said a disease had made its appearance in certain na-
val hospitals, but, by the care taken by Government, it had
been removed. In answer to a question from Mr. Hume, he
ta4l he timid endeavour to spp!y the money voted for the
0.,val service bt tie t 1 y to !heobj..cts the House had in view at the
:one of voting each sum. If on any occasion it should Le
ittcessary to depart from this cout,e, the House would be
early informed of it. In answer to an objection from Mr.
Hume, alai respect to the promotion of naval effi:ers, he
said he did not consider it consistent with the interest of the
couti;ry, or the good conduct of the navy to stop promotion
~Itogether. The proportion of one is three, adopted by tie
late novernment, lie considered a wise nnitsure.
The other itt ma of the Navy k:stitnates were then agreed
it-, without discussion.
ARMY ESTIMATES.

S:r PARNELL said. Cost in submitting these
4,,tinnees he t.hould offer no observation on Diem, as they
vete the same as those of the last Parliament.

On the question that 189,09;0. be granted for the Volun.
tee: corps in Ireland,
O'CONN KM, oij coal to the materials of which
,!:e yeomanry corps of Ireland were composed. and declared
:liat they had been originally kept on foot for party pur-
poses. He dial not wish to allude to a late melancholy
effray, in which the s cornanry were engaged. He repeated,
however, that the Irish yeomanry was a party force. There
night have been circumstances which would induce Go-
vernment to keep up a particular force for a time, but when
thore circumstances had ceased to exist, there was no
reason why the force called out fur a temporary pur-
pose should be continued. He objet eel on a former oc-
casion to the continuance of this force, and though there
was no pledge then given that the force would not be
continued longer • than that year, he did understand
that it was not the intention of Government to keep that
force up, and on that understandtng he withdrew all op-
position to the vote. If the homer Goven.ment had con-
tinued in office, he had no doubt that it would have been
piven up before now. But an idea existed that the yeomanry
force was necessary to put down agitation in Ireland.—
Never was there a greater mistake, for it was invaria-
. obi). found, that where a yeomanry f. rce was kept up, it
was also necessary to keep up a considerable force of the
King's regular troops, to keep down the effects of that excite-
ment which the yeomanry corps never failed to produce.—
It it was necestary to have a military force in any particular
district. let it I e of :1w regular troops, for they did their duty,
sad nothing more. Indeed, it was a matter of surprise that
men of the rank in life of the private soldiers should be found
to conduct themselves with so much prudence, discretion, and
forbearance, as the regular troops were found to do in Iteland,
often under then:ost trying circumstances. This praise be.
longed to the regular troops, from the highest to the lowest
rank. ( I lear, hear.) This was the general feeling in Ireland
with respect to them ; but a feeling the very reverse pre-
vailed with respect to the yeomanry force. Another ob-
jectionable force kept up in Ireland, was that of the
police—a force armed with deadly weapons, which they
were reckless in using on very alight occasions. He need
not mention a stronger illustration of his assertion that such
a force was not the proper one to produce tranquillity in Ire-
land, than thie fact, which was beyond doubt, that the
number of perrone who met their deeth by the hands of the
police in Irelatal was four times I,tcater titan those con.
demned by the ordinary course of the law. (Hear, hear.)
The ground was yet wet with the blood which they had
shed. Ile did not go beyond the case of Castle Pollard,
where ten men, women, and children, were deprived of
life because some stones had been thrown at the police on
their return to their barracks. The yeomanry were aux-
Wary to this force, and on this ground were rendtred
sill more objectionable. The honourable and learned '
gentleman went on to contend, that the yeemanry were
a party force ; that on this ground. and ftont a ant of
• ellecipline, and their readiness to shed blood, they were
the most objectionable force that could be kept up. For
pteof of their party spirit, and their readiness to shed blood,
lee need not go beyond the fact, that fur many years there
hod rot a Ist or a 12th of July pasted without the loss of
twt or three lives by their hands. He contended that if the
1::1Ytt malicious ingenuity were to exert itself to devise tura-
eves to keep Ireland in a state of excitement, of clissatis-
ravioli, and discontent, it could not devise more effectual
means than that of keeping up this kind of force. He
atqui-ted Government of any such intention, but he be-
lieved they kept up this forte only because they were igno.
sant of its constitution. and of the spirit by which it was
guided. After adverting to the anomaly now presented
in Ireland, of a peasantry starving in one of the most
fzetile countries on earth, the learned gentleman went
on to observe, that there was no one subject on which
the people of three provinces out of the four in Ire.
lard were mete united than the feeling that their repro.
stantivei were hound to stand by h'm in oppositien to this
grant for the continuance of the }ecimunry torte, and if they
dad not, there a is no doubt that they would be reminded of it
pretty plainly. The yeomanry corps were objectionable as
part of that system which had superinduced rebellion in 1793,
and had led to the removal of the legislature of Ireland. He
w is aware that attempts were made by the government of
I elend to infuse a better spirit into those corps, and to cause
u mixture of all parties to enter into them, but he also knew
with what little success; and the right hon. baronet (Sir H.
Paroell), who knew Ireland well, could bear Ithu out in the
: Anent that throughout Ireland 19 out of 20 of those corps
a ere composed of men of the most violent patty fecelings, and
belonging to thut party which was met: obnoxious to the
getteral feeling its the country. It was dangerous to put arms
.to the hand. of such men. He was a friend to economy,
I ;t it was no economy to keep up such a corps. It was
aeietake to suppose that the yeatuauty in lteland was
t Imposed of men in middling lite, and in comparatively easy
etre:tots:ems. The v.:twat' wete for the greater part poor
men, and the eflic.ts for the most part men to whom full
permanere duty and full pa) were on object. (Two or three
bun. members ere said No. no.") He did not speak of
the yeomanry is that pail of Ireland (tl:e North) to which
the three bon members belong: d. He spoke of the provinces
of Munster, Leiuster, and Connaught, which he presumed he
know much heeter than the hun. members who cried out
t• No; and he repeated that to a corps so composed the tear,.
• eloillity of the country could not be so much an object as
:env state of things which would give them employment.
1. his own county a captain of yeomanry had lately taken
t it benefit of the insolvent act, ye; he had still his company.
Would not :he pay bean object to such a man P Such men
%email be on tb.: look-out fur permattert duty, or, as the
lotion' would say, " would look out for squalls." By the dis-
• ontent of the country, they would get full pay : by its
e,i.ictras.. 1117 would get nothing, but go on till some of
them got white washed again. Having these strong objece
shun. to this .oree, he would now move as an amendment,
that the etre be !educed by the aunt of 19,0001. which was
tree w.;:a VO!rti tor the I: fah Yeomanry force. Ile would tot
touch the Lae.isl: tot ce, as lie was not acquaintedwith it. He
tenehl leave that to the English members.
ti:. STANLEY said, that theihon. and learned gent. had
te.e red it•ore generally into the state of Ireland than was
•. eel tee by the vote, which was usually voted on such is.
tor the yeomanry force. In one respect he had oak
to the Government of Ireland in stating that it
try thing in its power to prevent the yeomanry
Homing a party force. If they had not succeeded
t they could wish, it was not their fault I but even
:.1 u.i argumen; against the employment of that

force under the circumstances under which they had been
called out. He (Mr. Stanley) did not know with what taste
er judgment the hon. and learned gentleman had called
upon the members for places where, as he said, free election
existed, to puppet t bim on this occasion, seeing that he him.
self confessed that he was unacquainted with the consul's
Lion of tie yeomanry in that fourth province of Ireland, in
which five-sixths of this force was to be employed. It was
true that party feeling did exist amongst some of them, but
government could not prevent that, though it had done every
thing in its power to neutralize it. In one remark of the
hon. and learned gentleman he fully concurred—that
which related to the conduct of the King's troops, which,
under every circumstance, was most exemplary, and in-
deed, beyond all praise. (Hear, hear.) From the general
to the private, the conduct of the troops employed in the
disturbed districts of Clure, and the County of Gal-
way was under circumstances the most painful—that of re.
pressing disturbance by the shedding of blood—marked by
the greatest fothearstece, and by Levy trait which must be
approved by the Invent of order. But, concurring with the
honourable anti learned gentleman in this, as every man
must do, Le could not compliment hint on the good taste or
geol feeling which induced him to expose to the passions of
the people the pollee and the yeomanry force in two cases,
where they had come into hostile collision with the multi.
tude, and which cases were yet to come before the tribunals
of the country for investigation (Hear, hear),—in cases
where a judgment was yet to be pronounced, which might
consign twetuy-one persons to the scaffold. He had seen
an account in one of the newspapers—he could not vouch
for its accuracy—that a jury of six Catholics and six
Protestants had brought in a verdict of justifiable homicide.
att.. O'Connell here intimated that this could not be ecr-
rev : no verdict had been given.] Well, even in that case,
tlitre was the more reason for net alluding in a manner cal.
tulettd to excite a prejudice in a case which was yet to
come before the tribunals of the country. lie regretted that
the horourable gentleman had mixed up the Castle Pollard
case on this occasion, so as to throw odium on the two
forcet—the police and the yeomanry employed there.
With respect to the police force in Ireland, he would say
that a more patient or more temperate body of men could
not be foiled, and it was most unfair to mix them up on this
occasion so as to expose them to the passions of the people.
Ile said that the yeotteu were supplementary to the poe
lice on that occasion; but the fact was, they had found
it necessary to unite to resist an organized attack of
sullies whose worst passions had been excited by other
causes. When the hon. and learned Gentleman talked of
calling nut the yeomanry, let him (Mr. Stanley) remind him
of the condition of Ireland when they were ailed out in the
last winter; and even if the yeomanry had a larger share
of party feeling, he would ask whether there was any other
way c feaving Ireland at the time, without an immense and
! incony. nient eddition to the regular military force? If
the Government had nut called out those bodies who were
! organized and ready to act—a body of men who were known
to be loyal and devoted to the constitution,—he did not say
that there were not loyal men of all parties,—but looking
at the s ate of Ireland at that time, at the excitement
created, and the attempt made to keep it up, he would assert
that if Government did not avail itself of the assistance of
a large body of men, ready and willing to give their services,
and on whom Government could rely for those services
for the preservation of their country, it would have been
wanting in its duty to its country, and its God ; for
he would contend that the calling out of the yeomanry
on that occasion had prevented the greatest mischiefs.—
(Hear, hear, hear.) He knew it was difficult for oovtrn-
meut to have such a force without party feeling ; but know-
ing also how soon advantage was taken cf a word or an act at
either side, the Government saw that the best way was to
steer clear of both parties—not to be led away by a claim of
exclusive loyalty on one hand, or be deterred by a cry to put
down the whole Protestant population for the acts of a few
of their body. (Hear, hear.) lie contended, then, that un-
del. the circumstances under which the yeomanry were called
out last Chri-tnias, and as that was a force on which the
Government might rely for its general disposition to uphold
the laws, whatever might be said of its discretion, it would
be most injudicious and unwise economy to got rid of them
now, by withdrawing the usual vote. He was tilt refore ready
to take the sense of the committee on the vote.
Mr. O'CONNELL said he bad no wish to einbarrass
the Government, and if an expectation were held out that
this force would not be continued after a time, he would
withdraw his amendment. The hon. and learned gentle.
man repeated his former objections, that the yeomanry
were a source of' weakness and not of strength to the Go-
vernment, and on that ground he opposed them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted
that the question was one of great difficulty, as he knew no
subject connected with the force in Ireland which had ex.
cited more discussion. At the same time, after the ser-
vices which the yeomanry had rendered when called out last
Christmas, when Ireland was in a condition which called for
the aid of such a force, he did not see how the usual vote
should now be refused. The hon. gentleman had called for
a pledge to have the force given up. (Mr. O'Connell said
that "an expectation held out was all he required.") lie
considered that on the part of a Government very like a
pledge, and he was not disposed to give it, though he saw
PO probability of the force being increased. The use of such
a forte was, he admitted, only a choice of evils; but It was
an alternative forced on Government by the circumstances
of the ceuntly. The noble Lord then proceeded to defend
the maintenance of the police force' as preventing the em-
ployment of a large military force ; and, again referring to
the yeomanry, contended that under the circumstances the
vote for it ought not to be withheld.
Mr. S'rRICK LA ND contended that there was no neces-
sity for the honourable and learned gentleman's appeal to the
Irish members on this occasion, for the English members
were equally alive to the condition and wants of Ireland.—
Ile thought the yeomanry were a necessary force for that
country, and would support the vote. He hoped that the
honourable and learned member would not persevetewith his
amendment, and he promised to give the honourable and
learned member his support on another occasion, in any mo.
tion he might bring forward for the suppressien of the yeo-
manry corps.
Mr. STANLEY, in answer to the question which had
been asked by the hon. and learned member, stated that no
intention was entertained by the gevernmeut of increasing the
force of the yeomany corps.
Mr. O'CONNELL wished to know whether there was
any other vote for the yeomanry in the estimates ?
Mr. STANLEY stated there was a vote for the clothing
of the yeomanry, but he believed that it would be postponed.
He could not, however, take upon himself to give any pledge
on the subject.
Colonel PERCEVAL bore testimony to the tranquil
state of the county of Sligo, which he said was in pan owing
to the establishment of the yeomanry. He did not think,
notwithstanding the observations of the hon. and learned
member, that any Irish member of that house need be afraid
to meet ins copstituenta again, because he had bad the man-
liness and sincerity to declare his sentiments.
Colonel EVANS thought that Irelandi was not In a state
to allow of any part of the police force being withdrawn. He
was of opinion that it would be found the best economy to
add to the regular forces, and gradually diminish the yea-
manry.
Mr. CONOLLY spoke in praise of the efficiency of
the yeomanry and police forces. On several occasions, the
mere intimation that the yeomanry were to be called ent had
the effect of quelling excitement.
After a few more words, Mr. Otos( tem withdrew his
amendment.

Mr. HU3IE said, that the house had been occupied with
the consideration of the Irish yeomanry ; and he now begged
to enter his protest against the centinuance of the English
yeomanry. He considered the yeomanry an inefficient and
ill-disciplined force ; and he thought England would be in •
much better condition if there were embodied in every village
a burgher guard. (Great laughter.) He would rather have
a body of volunteers, serving without pay, than these gentle-
men yeomanry, who must have 170,0001. for their services.
(Cries of " No.")
The Marquis of CHANDOS declared, that the services
of the yeomanry, which was one of the most constitutional
and efficient forces, were given free of expence. (Hear.)
The country would not have been in a tranquil state at the
present moment, had it not been for the exertions of the
yeomanry in the disturbed districts of the country last Au-
gur. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Middlesex had
stated that 170,0001. was paid to the yeomanry. He (the
Nlarquis of Chandos) knew not where that money went. All
he knew was, that the corps which he had the honour to
command performed their duty gratuitously. (Hear.)
Mr. HU3IE said, that when he last called for returns,
he fowal that some of the money went to the noble marquis
and his corps. (Laughter.)
Mr. HUNT could not agree with the noble marquis in
thinking that the yeomanry was an efficient and consti-
tutional body. How had it proved its efficiency during the
late disturbances in Wales ? The house perhaps would
remember that a body of yeomanry was surrounded by
the populace, and that half of them surrendered their
arms, and the other half tan away. (Laughter.) Nor was ,

.;

this an uncommon occurrence, for he had seen many Simi-'
lag instances when he was in the yeomanry himself.
(Continued laughter.) He thought it was exceedingly
Impolitic to employ yeomanry to quell disturbances wide
had broken out in the agricultural districts. (Hear.) It
was well known that incendiarism continued in Kent
and Sussex, and that the agricultural labourers had been
heard to declare, that if the Irish were allowed to take the
bread out of their mouths, by.bcing employed in gathering
the hops, they would not only burn the hops, but the corn
too. Now if the yeomanry were employed to put down any
riots, their properly would immediately be marked out for
destruction. But it was a mistake to suppose that gentle-
men alone constituted the yeomanry. It was composed of
butchers, grocers, and apprentices. ("No, no.") Apothe-
caries and surgeons, who required two or three horses tot their
business, let them out to butcher boys, who served in the
yeomanry, and thus escaped the ditty. (" No, no.") Hon.
gentlemen might cry out " No, no," but his assertions were
founded In fact, and be knew a surgeon at Taunton who ma-
naged in that nay.
the CHANC P.I.LOR of the I.X.CHEQUER, though
he was not in the yeomanry at present, knew the honourable
member for Preston's description of the class of persons
composing that body to he very incorrect. (Hear.) It was,
he was sure, chiefly composed of substantial farmers. The
honourable gentleman was also in error when he stated that
incendiarism still continued; but of this he (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) was sure, that should a recurrence of the
disturbances of last autumn take place, the same valuable
services might be expected from the yeomanry as they p.a.
formed in NI-Burl:ire and other parts of ;he country last year.
Dlr. it. GORDON said, that in looking back to the mi-
litary &bates which had taken place ;n that house for the
last fifty years, it was curious to observe, that the patriots
of those days had always argued against a standing army,
and in favour of the yeomanry force. It was now, however,
discovered that the yeomanry was an unconstitutional body.
He expressed his regret that the lion. ntentbrr for Preston
shauld give circulation to statements which were calculated
to prove most inbehievous. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HUNT said he had not made that statement without
authority. (.iurnturs and coughinu.) lie thought it would
be more 1 econting the character of members to answer him
than to make that noise. He was sent in by the peoplc.—
(Laughter, and " Ile was nor to be deterred from
doing his duty by such vulgar grounds. The authority on
which his statement was founded, was a paragraph in last
Botday's Dispatch The hon. member proceeded to read the
paragraph to the house, but the coughing became so loud
and general, that he was compelled to hi, down.
Mr. TREVOR said that the hon. member for Preston
had made out a case for the embodying of the yeomanry, by
stating that the labourers were threatening to destroy the
propetty of their employers. The ycon:anry corps were a
most efficient force, anti was formed of Twrsons who had a
stake in tile country, and not of apprentices and butchers'.
boys, as the hon. member insinuated. He thought that time
yeomanry had been unjustly libelled by the hon, members
for Preston and Middlesex.
31r. HUME wished to know how he had libelled the
yeomanry y

Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said that the privates of
the Welch yeomanly corps, to which the honourable mem-
ber for Pres,on had alluded, had certainly not conducted
themselves as well as could be desired; hut the oflicen had
acted with the greatest courage and intrepidity.
Air. LA 31 B protested against the injustice of estimating
the character of a whole body of troops from the conduct of
a single corps. In Dorsetshire and Wiltshire the yeomanry
had acted with much spirit, and great benefit had resnlted
from their exertions. Ile had the most perfect confidence in
the yeomanry of England, in case any necessity should ease
fur thei► services.

An bon. alEstnrn bore testimony to the good conduct
of the yeomanry corps in Scotland. In 1820, when the west
of Scotland was in a disturbed state, they succeeded in re-
storing tranquillity. He thought that the government which
disembodied the yeomanry acted most unwisely.
Mr. S. RICE said, that no blame could fairly be impu►ed
to the government which disembodied the yeomanry. The
act was perfectly justified by the state of things at the time.
There was nothing in the suppression of the corps which
tended to throw discredit on their past services.

Sir M. W. RIDLEY protested against the unjustifiable
language which some members of that House had directed
against the yeomanry corps. Those lion. members might
find in their own conduct the justification of Goreriiiiient
for raising that force to put down tumults, which arose from
the bad advice given by those who, unfortunately. hail too
much the ear of the poor.—(Hear, hear.) He knew that
the yeomanry bad done good service in the north of
England.
Major PETRE !poke highly of the good conduct of the
yeomanry In Yorkshire.
Mr. HUNT said that, as the hon. member for Newcastle
looked at him whilst he spoke/ he supposed he meant to say
that he (Mr. Hunt) had given the people bad advice. The
hon. member should have stated what the advice was. He
never gave the people any advice which he was not prepared
to justify.
The amendment was then withdrawn, and the original
motion was agreed to.
The following votes were agreed to without observation :-
135,0001. for the pay of General Officers not Colonels of re-
giments; 05,0001. for the full pay of retired unattached
officers.

On the question " that 697,0001. be granted fur the half.
pay and military allowance of retired officers,"
Sir 11. H A RDINGE hoped that the right hon. secretary
opposite would bring forwatd some plan for ameliorating the
condi.ion of half-pay officers, before the appropriation act
should be introduced. lie would suggest to the right hon
secretary the propriety of allowing these officers to hold civil
appointments which, on the tecommendation of the finance
committee, they were now prevented from doing.

3lr. HU3IE said, that military men, after long seryiee,
were inadequate to perform the duties of civil offices. (No.)
They could he allowed to hold sinecure situations and re-
ceice tie salary as well as any other men in the country.
(A laugh.) lie wished to ask what was the rule uto pro.
motion in the army. He was not aware that there was any
other tole but the will of the person who had the patronage.
Sir H. PA II NELL said there was no fixed rule.

Sir H. HA R DING E observed that there 1;4W; extreme
difficulty in establishing any rule in the army as to pro-
motion.

Colonel EV did net apprehend there would Le any
difficulty. He thought that the half pay officers of the army
were nut so much attended to as they ought to be.
The resolution was then agretd to.
The following resolutions were then agreed to without
remark :

X 91,300 for the halflay and reduced allowances of officers
of disbanded foreign corps, and of the widows of disbuniied
foreign officers. . __

A 4,174 fur the allowances to reduced local militia adju•
tants and reduced officers of yeomanry.
£147,778 fur pensions to widows of officers of the land
forces.

£l2O, xl'23 for the allowances on the compassionate lilt, the
King's bounty, and pensions to officers' widows.
On the vote of 1,335,91101. for Chelsea and Kilmainham
Hospitals, for the penpioners of the hospitals,

Sir H. lIARDINGE bald he wished to bring to the notice
of the right hon. baronet the secretary at war the subject of
commutations of pensions. A practice had been introduced
by himself of commutlnz pensions of soldiers who wished to
emigrate to Canada, Van Dieman's Land, &c. told numbers
of them had taken advantage of the permission. But he had
heard that a number of pensioners a ho had received their
three or four years' pension on this pretext, bad spent the
money, and would eventually come on their parishes, so that
the object of the plan would be defeated. There were, he also
heard, 700 or 800 old soldiers in Ireland, who had been al.
lowed to commute their pensions, and his temark applied
peculiarly to them, for they had no parochial relief to fall
upon. The Secretary at War should stand between the go.
vernment and the old soldier, and take care that no bargain
was made prejudicial to the latter, and at the same time take
precaution against the abuse of these commutations. Persons
of 45 years of age should not be allowed to commute their
pensions. The right hon. gentleman observed, that the pen-
sion-list had been very large, but from the measures which
had been adopted whilst he was in office, in twenty years the
list would have been reduced 200,0001.
Sir H. PARNELL said, that he had followed the princi-
ples and regulations adopted by his predecessors, in respect
to commutation of pensions. New regulations were, bow.
ever, in preparation, which would obviate the evil alluded to.
After a few words from Colonel SIBTHORP. the reso.
lution was agreed to.
The remaining resolutions were also agreed to, namely,
634021 fur compensations in the nature of superannua-
tion', and retired allowances, for the public departments in
Great Britain and Ireland ; and
32,0001. for Exchequer fees.
On the question that the Chairman report progprogress,Dir. R. GORDON wished for some information respect.
ing a strange complication of accounts which, he was in.

formed. had been discovered In the office of the Vice-
Treasurer of Ireland. He understood that there had been a
loss to the public from the confusion of accounts, and he
wished to know whether any inquiry had been made, and
what steps had been taken to recover the loss.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not
exactly understand to what the hon. member alluded. There
were some accounts of a former Vice-Treasurer of Ireland,
which had not been settled. They had, however, now been
sent in ; they had been deferred a long time, but were now
before the auditors.

Dlr. GORDON said he understood that the Vice-Trea.
surer he referred to, had been in the habit of receiving
10,0001. a year, fur which he rendered no accounts for
five years.
Mr. SPRING RICE said that the late Treasury had
made repeated minutes calling fur the accounts, but had not
been able to obtain them.

Mr. GORDON thought it strange that a public ac-
countant should be suffered to go on for years in this way
without being compelled to make up his accounts, and at
last kave a balance against him.
Mr. HUME observed, it was still more extraordinary,
that after thus refusing to give in his accounts, this officer
had been appointed to be governor of a colony.
Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY was surprised that the late
Chancellor of the Exchequer could give no explanation of
this affair. It required explanation why this officer was ap-
pointed to a situation of trust and responsibility.
Mr. GOULBURN said, it was very difficalt for him to
give an explanation of the matter, now he was out of office.'
and had not recourse to the papers. He could only say,
that he had done his utmost to fulhl every part of his duty.
Mr. O'CONNELL hoped the matter would not rest here.
The officer referred to, who had had 50,0001. of the public
money, which he had not accounted for fur five years, had
not only his salary but a pension of 2,0001. This was
monstrous.
The CHAIRMAN then left the chair, the house resumed,
the resolutions were reported, the report was ordered to be
recivcd this day, and to be taken into consideration on Wed-
nesday.

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