Star.
London, England, 1831-09-03 00:00:00

181011.111.

Lou' ALTHORP moved, that the house resolve itself
into a Committee on the Reform of Parliament Bill.
Sir R. VYVYAN said in the absence of the Noble Sere.
Lary fur Foreign Affairs he hoped the Noble Chancellor of
the Exchequer would say whether the four protocols that had
appeared in the public papers respecting Belgium were au-
thentic. The most important was the last, by which the
French troops were to remain in Belgium for six weeks after
the Dutch troops had withdrawn. If France had given an
assurance to this country that her troops should be with-
drawn from Belgium as soon as the Dutch troops should
withdraw, and now continued there after the Dutch troops
were withdrawn, his Majesty's Government would have to
answer to this country for she honour of England.
Lord A LTHORP said the protocols related to pending
negocia don-, and if any hon. gentleman in this country
wish,d to involve this country in a war, the course taken by
tho ha-.gemlemasi was that:which he would be likely to take.
Tie h, n. gentleman must excuse hint if he declined answer-
ing his inquiries.
Col. WOOL) gnve notice thi-a he would take the sense of
the house on tht. 29th:clause of the reform bill.
The hoose resolved itself into a committee.
The CHAIRMAN read clause 25, and said it was pro.
posed to omit it entirely. Agreed to.
The CHAIRMAN then read a new clause, to be the
25th in the bill. provioing for the approval of both Houses
1 of Parliament of the repotta of the Commissioners for the
division of counties and extension of boroughs, and addrts-
sing the King to make ptoclamation of the same.
The clause was agreed to without any observation.
' The CHAIRMAN read the 28th clause, giving power to
she Commissioners to call for the attendance of witnesses,

and the inspection of papers, except charters and muniments
of till; and to examine witnesses on oath.

The'clausc was agre.d to.
The next proposition was, that all the words of the 27th
clause in the old printed copy, be left out, for the purpose of
inserting others.
Before the Chairman read the words proposed to be in-
serted,
Lord ALTHORP said, the object of the clause was to
put the boroughs of Shorehatn, Cricklade, Aylesbury, and
Fret Retford, on the footing of all other boroughs.
A very long conversation followed on the amendment.
On the question being put from the Chair,
Sir THOS. FR REM ANTLE rose, and proposed as an
amendment on the amendment, that the clause be altered to
ha form in the original draft of the Bill.
Lord I. RUSSILL said a few words in explanation.
Mr. CROKEIt insisted that the House should be divided
on the question, and consequently strangers were ordered to
withdraw.

While the doors were closed, the Committee continued
a debate for some time. On the division the numbers
I were—

Noes .
Ayes ••• • ••••• •• • • •• 102

Majority for Ministers.......... 73
The clause was then put as amended, and carried without
• division.

Tb: question was then put that clause 28 be omitted in
the bill, which was carried without a remark.

The CHAIRMAN having read part of clause 29,
Colonel WOOD laid the plan of registering voters and of
establishing different polls, was the same as that proposed
in the year 1827 by the noble lord, which was pronounced
to be impracticable by Mr. Tierney, and which, in fact, was
abandoned. He asked, how was a tam-resident freeholder
to know whether his name was on the list of voters ? He
must keep a person on the spot to inspect the list, doubtless
at no small expense. tie contended that the whole machi-
nery was extremely expensive. The drawing up of the lists,
their verification by the assessors, and the re-printing of
them, would be extremely onerous to the counties and pa.
riches. He presumed the assessors were to be paid out of
the county purse?
.4gLord A LTHOkP.—No, by the State.
Colonel %I-I/OD—Well, that is no diminution of the ex-
pense. Individuals omitted in the list must undergo much
expense and litigation in the courts to have their names in.
serted. The Committee of the House of Commons, before
which the accuracy of the lists was to be questionable,
would be another source of expenditure. The candidates
would be obliged to retain paid agents in the counties or
boroughs to watch the lists, and sue that their friends were
inserted. He was afraid such would be his case at least.
But how was the identity of the persons presenting them-
selves at the poll with those named in the lists to be ascer-
tained ? After some observations with respect to the multi.
plicity of polls, which he thought would add to the
expenditure in elections, he concluded by proposing, that
the poor-rate should be the test of the elector; this would
supersede the necessity of a register, and of the thirty register
clauses, which be proposed to the house to ne. ative.
Lord A LTIIORP, alluding to the expense of the drawing
up of the election lists, said di: overseers drew up similar
hats, jury lists, and population returns, for instance, at a very
small cost. In the case of one place containing 400 inhabi.
tants, the population return cost only 71. (Hear.) Thc non-
resident freeholder must have a tenant residing on the free.
hold, who would, of course, inform his landlord of the omis-
sion of his name, without any other expense but that of a
letter sent by post. But it was not likely that in the agricul-
tural districts the overseers would omit any freeholder.—
The expense of the barrister would be much diminished
st•bsequently. As to candidates being obliged to retaia
paid agents, he was sure no candidate would be without some
intell.gent friend in the different parishes who would wil-
lingly overlook the lists without any pecuniary consideration.
—He admitted that at first some expense would be occasioned,
but it would be considerably diminished when once the ma.
chinery should have been act at work. The two great sources
of expenditure under the present system, the conveying
of electors and the detaining of the voters objected to at the
place of election, would be almost entirely extinguished.—
On the whole there would be, at least in the long run, a
great diminution of expenditure. (Hear.)
Sir E. SUODEN said the bill would let loose about three
hundred barristers upon England annually, for the teems
preliminary to the Insertion of names omitted in the lists
could be gone through only by professional men. The bill

bad been rightly called a lawyen' bill. Be doubted whether
there were a sufficient number of banisters so well acquainted
with the laws relating to real property as to be competent
to sit in the courts. Individuals would make it a trade, under
the name of undertaken and performers, to inspect the lists
and see that the names of electors were not omitted ; these
individuals would become the medium of corruption between
the candidates and the voters. Owing to there being se-
veral places of election, which would prevent candidates from
knowing how they stood on the polls, and to the restriction
of the election to two days, all the freeholders would be
required to vote; this would occasion no slight cxpence. He
asked where were the vehicles which were to convey the vo-
ters to be found, all the. elections taking place simultane-
ously ? Really the whole country would be thrown into an
admirable confusion.
Mr. Sergeant WILDE could not understand how short.
ening the distance the elector would have to go to the poll,
and shortening the time of taking the votes, could increase
the expense. (Hear, hear, hear.) His learned Mend ap-
peared to think there could not be a sufficient number of
competent barristers procured for the putpo.es of the clause.
Of all the complaints against the profession he had ever
heard, this was the first time he heard it urged against
them that they vete not sufficiently numerous. He thought
that objection (like all the other objections to the clause)
was wholly untenable. The expense would be insignificant,
and the motive for captious objection would be removed.
Shortening the time of election would cut off the greatest
temptation to corruption. Instead of fortunes being ex-
hausted as at present by contested elections, they would in
future be determined at a small expense, and on public
grounds. (Hear, hear.)
Sir CHARLES WETHERELL argued that the in-
creased places of t. king di,: poll would increase expense, and
demoralize the people.
r.LI TT L ETt IN supported the clause.becau se it promised
advantage to the rich and to the poor. It might frequently
happen that a Gentleman of two, or three, or four thousand
a year might be most eligible for the representation of a
county, but all gentlemen of that scale of formne were now
effectually extruded by the expense of elections, which this
clause in the hill would (factually remedy.
Mr. CHOKER was confident that, though the clause '
would prevent expense at the poll, it would cause a perpetual
canvass, an annual contest, and on the whole an expense
greater titan at present. Fur this reason he should oppose it.
The clauses belonging to registration boa nothing to do with
the principle cf the bill, and might be made a separate bill.
Mr. G. LANGTON said, if the clause passed, it would
degrade county representation; and he would then rather re.
rr(s:nt a city—Bristol or Bath—than the county of Somerset.
After the bill passed nothing should induce him to re-
turn to public life, from which he had before retired, and
only came forward to bear his part in that great measure of
(lightened legislation, for every clause of which that has
passed he voted, except that for dividing the counties.
Mr. NORTH was friendly to the registialon, but thought
the mode proposed by the clause was defective.
Lord ALTHORP was cut.fident that the registry and
taking the poll at different places would greatly diminish
the expense of elections.
The resolution was agreed to without a division.
The clause, as amended, was then agreed to.
Clause 30, which provides that persons entitled to vote.
whose names have not been returned by the overseers, shall
he entitled to give notice of their intention to claim a tight
of voting, being put—
After some desultory conversation, in which Sir C. WE.
THEZELL, lllr. Witas, and other Hon. Gentlemen, took
part, this clause was also agreed to.
The CHAIR3IAN then reported progress, and obtained
leave to sit again this day.

GAME HILL

On the third reading of the Game Bill,
Mr. BIABEHLY moved as an amendment that any per-
son holding 300 acres of ground be entitled to appoint game-
keepers.
After some further remarks the gallery was cleared for a
division, none, however, took place, the amendment conse-
quently lost.
After a few verbal alterations, the bill was read a third
time and passed.
The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and
the House adjourned at HALF•PAST Two o'CLccK.