Star.
London, England, 1823-06-27 00:00:00

lIO,USR OF COIINiOIB.

colonel WOOD presented a Petiticin from Llangollen am
she
noel
the tible. praying for the gradual Abolition of Sla
very._
.Lsid
Alt. Aldernian WOOL) presented a Petition from the p,,t,
of SO Pancras against the Gas Light. Eatanshmentßall.-44
on the table.
Mr. Alderman C. S3IITII presented a Petition from St. iti.
bee% proying fee she Rodemiessof 460 Dorm ifthesiwilemk
—Ordered to be printed.
The Post Flom Duty BM, and the Prison Reeteiathe, oft,
went through a •Oommitteemsskepost mossmemer.• 'l4,
The Pons Stith:imam All was oftlered to be con •
.
day three months.
•The rAteltekuerillilb •Sillains.rond Ilmlead tinstotott •
tar bemsentnitted homeroom%
The meteheated 4itmin fial was mid issesast,graeola
ordered to be committed to-snessuese.
The Have wept into a ewewnittee masse •Leteaer gum&
sinners' Salaries sad Ailowswersest-tkpori to.morrow ""'"
ish. 0 ggA rt 6 islOßE._gave nodce, that he would theme*
present a Petition front Morns Olive 4
that she may be heard by her Agent at the Bar Of the ypie4,
in support of her claim.
Mr. CI.7II.frEIS presented o Petition from tr Reptiow.
,iu Susses, complaining of Agricultural DiStress. Laid on tisetok.
On the motion of Mr. lc. Doomss, rt Return was &dew et
-thequantity uf•fagirits distilled, and the leantity seized ha
landefor tbe yeats Viet, 1322, and Is 2.
:Mr: Obit TgNAY stated, that in consequence et as'ai.-
.rangensent wish the East India Company, soldiers andialw.
letters would be brought borne to this country free ofehtrge44l
abe futpre, by which means they would be gent to any Rat et
the ;kited Kingdom for the postage of one penny.
Mr. BROUGHAM presented a PetitiOnfrom a pauper&
llSltte et Gaorge Rowell, of the °minty of Kerry. Ireland, -
plaining that he bad been dismissed from.his sits-niacin aka &
Ow, theongh the machittatiotts of his •sor.cosior, suppaned .6.
bribery and perjury. The Petitioner went en to th4ree agar
two Member, of the Honourable House with cottoptraose.
The Hon. Menthe, (Mr. Brougham) stated that behove a •
of the Petitioner or the allegations of .the Petition. It ales 11f
the House to deal with the Petition as they thought promeel
It was of course understood that any person making *net
against 'any Member of that Hoene, did sear his awn Mb.
Colonel CROSBY repelled the insinuations contained/a fist
Petition. He assured the House that he had never nsvivedi
shilling for any public appointment it bad been in his pawn t,
make„and be 'pledged himself to take means to obtain lychees.
Mr. CROKE!: assured the house that whatever part Lein(
taken in behalf of the individual complained of by itti ad.
dosser., had not been at the suggestion of the lion. Membe; w
bad just sat down.
Mr. WY NN apprehended that the House Mold not tight
a Petition like this, containing charges against Members of tio
House, each of which was indictable in the Courts below.
Mr. YIROUGH A 111 thought the best way would he tow*.
draw the Petition, and leave the Petitioner to press ha big
"presented nest Session to the House, should he persist is gape
so, with the foreknowledge that the Hon. Member hedges*.
dieted his assertions, and of the consequences attmdusteniii
perseverance.—The Petition was then withdrawn.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH gave notice of a sootier lir
Thursday next respecting the Instructions given to Sir Willa
A'Court, for the guidance of hia conduct under any amen de
Cortes of Spain might make in the internal Administration if is
Onvernmentof that country.
ADMINISTRATION Of .1113TICZ IN tity,ann.
' Mr. BROUGHAM then rose to bring &ward his
motion for referring the-Petition of the Catholics ti
Ireland, which he presented to the House last night,
complaining of the unequal administration of law to
the Catholics and Protestants of Ireland; and here
he was placed in a situatioa of considerable difficalty,
inasmuch as the Petitioners, although they complained
generally, pointed out no particular instance of a hidt
they had to complain. They said, however, that the
law was in itself enequal, and this evil was aggra-
vated by a partial administration of it; and, indeed,
it was impossible that the law should be equally
administered, where, in itself, it made a distilleda
of sects. In England all sects were equal, all ate
were considered as brothers, and the King as the
father of all his subjects. In Ireland it was not to:
In that country brother was set against brother;
and that worst of all animosities, religious differ-
ences and distinctions—differences and distinctions
the most mischievous, prevailed. This formed a sae
which had been kept rankling in the minds of the
Irish; and, as long as that distinction of sects was
kept up, dissathfacticas must continue to exist; in*
much at it•deciared, this doctrine, that the law sant
respecter of persons; and whilst this system was kept
up the law could not be equally administered to
they Protestant who was • protected, and to the Secua
rian who was of the prosctibed cast. He must air
descend to some particulars of his case, it being
always understood, tlsat be was ready to suppertsll
evidence at the Bar all the statements he was abet*
to make; end frst he would begin with the local
Magistrates. The Honourable Gentleman proceeded
a. comment upon the mode whi7Ch was pursued by'
the local Magistrates in Ireland a • and observed them.
was nothing like it to be seen in England. The ,pW
sons Who were appointed to serve the office 'of Ma-
gistrates in Ireland were .certainly not made of sepli
stuff as toglish Magistrates were. The Hen.
ber then proceeded to cite several instances off'bit.'
adniinistration on the part of the Magistrates, lad'
.tlse opinions of thelLish Judges 'on the subje4, enr
cially.ahat At She. Learned .lodge kietcbei; Ifiait In
one iof -his charges, •says--4' his saScieni for a wit-.
nest to thew his colours to decide tiltedier his testi-
mony should be credited Or not; or for a titiOtrer
indicted for murder to..shew his badge to pritaidkic
himself a verdict .of manslaughter." That••
Judge, also, •in another of his charges, warmly re-
commended that .Orane Societies should be ow-
.
pressed, .declaring that at present nabs in aP°
..q
of Justice were disregarded and made subsetsleat 10
: other oaths. He:the:el-rite called for an end to be
put to these Societies, and declared, that t till ibis
was donethere would tocno peace in !Tels49- iF9'
was Judge Fletcher's opinion, and it ought a 9 •4r.
acted upon. He also contended. that the Massmrsel
stahkoeunldpblaec purifiedplace.
s 0;, iitiowwaswsaasi.ditthathtaptu rsiuficc:ttonnrilta asi
Sir Harcourt Lees and Major Sirr were 'tti
.r 3,
.
tained in the. Commission? That filajorPrt• Asha,
by a verdict of a Jury had been found guilty of
gross tyranny arndotiocpeprienssiDonu,tlsitnill_•w_casmercos:iatalAtH#
He must here .state the opinion, of Lw4 g , a.
•
I as given in one of hisspetChea deliveredin 11 ~___
place, in which he said.that he hadlOng iiIIOWP. Iry
itiufOW
.land, and been intimately connected with .W.
years,
arrd he !at/tented ' to say, ahat•there Mall's"'
dlitt ill-fated
Q n for hg poor,couLhtrytwci both 9f wtic
sorts. oii
j;vereci.e
a:, onecfolitte
rich, ant
_
ill administered. He was prepared nashew.th*lllP!
Lord Itedesdale.had said waswell fosadtd; Wig?!
.thil,. it was scarcelyatecessary to do snore lhatt v.
state the maroper in which Juries were ap , ~,!.
Ireland. • To do this hs wauld,refeethe II 'se, 71`,
rev
evidence of Mr. Dillon Macnaosaara, a •Solidif l'Z'
,was examined at the bar. The Hentonrable gliall:,
ethveidnepnrcoec,esediveedntoontethaed
iancipuitirt;OfiatMo 'Mr. 1:41!;1411'1".
ci.

the she, iff' of Dublin, when Mr. Macnamara acknow-
ledged that he hachon one occasion applied to a Sub 7
sheriff to pack a Jury for him, and offered him a
bribe to do so: that he did not g,et the Jury packed,
the Sub-Sheriff saying it was impossible he could do it,
the panne] having gone up to the Castle. The Sheriff
did not say he could not do it without a breach of
dory, nor did he express any indignation at such an
Orr being made to him. Ile only said he could not
do it because the panne] was gone up to the Castle.
.The Sheriff did not get the bribe because he did not
do what he was to have done for it. Another grievaoce
Iv that the King's writ did not always run. 'Lie
Hon. Gentleman then referred to the evidence of an
attorney,. examined on the 23d of June, before a
Committee of the house, stating that the difficulty
ofteeovering debts was the great cause why Engli .1)
capital was not employed in Ireland. The same
witness also stated, that debts were more easily e-
-orerable from the poor than the rich, as the for-
.ther could not pay the Sheriff for his forbearance in
the issuing of writ. He availed himself of the pri-
west of Parliament in noticing the conduct of a
.Dodge, who ought never to mix with the politics of
"nay, as it necessarily affected his impartiality.
The Judge he alluded to was Lord Norbury, and
be spoke of him with the same freedom as of an
attorney or Sub•Sheriff—(Hear, hear, hear). A
proposal had been made to that lodge from Mr.
&min, which no man svould have d..red to make to
an English Jude. Mr. Sausin had never denied the
letter, and Lord Norbury had never produced the
answer. The request was, that the Judge should job
orn the Chcitit, he being desired to talk in private
with the Country Gentlemen in the course of the
Circuit, and to hold out to them that in the event of
the Catholic question being carried, all the Irish
Members would be Catholics, and the Judges and the
Sheriffs would be chosen from the Catholics, and the
Protestants would be thrust into the back ground.—
That was the conduct recommended to the Chief Jus-
tice by the Attorney-General. The Hon. Gentleman
nut referred to an extract from a Dublin paper,- and
which was headed—" Lord No: bury's newest joke !"
border to introduce that joke what had the Learned
Lord in question done? Refused a Rule, which was
is England so much a matter of course, that no in-
stance of fefesal by any Court in this country could
befeund upon record—se much dearer to him was
bis joke than his justice. Here the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman read the article he had alluded
to, which we subjoin :
_

I remember when, if the words were addressed to me, I
ibstald not have been at a loss in supplying an inuendo. The'
Oran has certainly a somewhat gladiatorial sound. No man
nriacts or loves the Bar more than I do; but great allowance
1, to be made fur the chivalrous propensities of men of the sword.
They do not, as Hamlet says in the play, ' set their lives at a
I pin's 03 the other hand, the Gentlemen of the Bar have
I nlyigrance to the arrest of that fell Serjeant, Dvath.' From
which profession the immortal Bard drew his illustration I shall
hare to the commentators. Cedant artno togee' is good Latin,
sad good law ; but I am a friend to conciliation, and shall give
s irianiph to neither partY—(Langhter).—l mean nu allusion.'
I—He (Mr. Brougham) respected the Bench only
while it respected itself, and when he saw ribaldry and
polities on the Bench, not only was his reverence: gone,
but his patience was quite exhausted—j Hear, hear!).
The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded ro animadvert
m the Civil Bill System, and the Revetrue Board,
which called loudly for reformation. The day of
reckoning will come. Hitherto Ireland had been in
lime of war a means of strength to the enemy, and
in peace a source of wcaknetts to .this country. A
genial climate and a fertile soil hail been of no ad-
vantage to that unfortunaze country, ft um the mis-
government of men. Things could not remain as they
were, they must either become bkter, or they would
become feat fully worse. If he erred, he erred with
the Laws of Nature and the Decrees of PROVIDSNCY..
It was the worst of policy to.drive six millions to de-
spair. The case could not be met by the same flimsy
pretences as before. Bonaparte, and the venerable
Monarch whose scruples were professed to be re-
spected, bad paid the debt of nature, and neither fear
of the one, nor reverence for the other, could be
pleaded in bar of the Catholic rights. Ik would re-
commend for once, to prefer the hearts of Ireland to
the applause of the Orange Lodges—( Hear, hear ! )
If promises did so much, when the King visited Ire-1
land, what would .the pet formance itself effect? He
bad discharged his duty and freed himself from a
tremendous responsibility.—Should the House turn a
deaf ear to the prayer of the Petition, he firmly
believed there would neither be peace for Ireland,
mr safety for England-7(Loud and repealed cheering).
Thekion. Gentleman concluded by moving, that the
Petition of the Catholics be referred to the Grand
Committee of Courts of Ju,tice.

Mr. GOULBI,IO said, that the lion. Gentleman
discussed ,the subject as if the Petition had
;oaken the opinion of the people of Ireland. From
that idea he wholly differed. The Petition did not
leaVeither the opinion Of the people of Ireland, or
tf the majority of the Catholics themielves. What
would the Hon. Gentleman have said, had a similar
charge been brought against the Catholics of Ireland
freer the tonduct of a few individuals? Would not
*Hon. Member have expressed the most marked
npnbation of such a proceeding ? The. Petition
haft in mere generalities, without any specifica-1
ihs of facts—(Cheers). Upon such statements no,
public institution, no private character could be
hie. He fully admitted the importance, that jus-
tice should be purely administered ; but it was of
equal importance that the Courts of Justice should
sot be made the subject of obloquy—(llear, hear).
--In the present case a mode of proceeding was de-
manded that had not been recurred to for 100 years.
?he Hon. Gentleman had asserted, that the law was
latcqual between Protestant and Catholic, send that
dot administration of that law was corrupt. It was:
tar Parliament to decide whether the laws between
Ate Catholics and Protestants in Ireland should be
equal; nor w as it in the power of the Judges to do
*hat Parliament had•refused. He admitted that ex-.
93,Ples cotild be found of Magistrates being
,either
Pins or over zealous in .he discharge of their
, Lit the present was not the time for bringing.
71tacd such a charge, when partial reformatioti had-,
befit already made, and was in progress towards
"%Illation. The task had been a most arduous one;
!cud tv calculased to give rise to invidious remarks.
rt Ul4 "grits vi deuseiits of the individuals had
oaft. the sole ground of selection or deprivation ; and
1 diuinetkit hid been made between the friends or-
r_u_ifs of the Catholics. There was not one county
"r4a4drial wiliith reformation hadnot taken place,

more or less complete, as to Justices of the Peace.'
It had been made a charge arinst the Government
of Ireland, that Sir Harcourt' Lees had not been
struck out of the list of Justices. What would the
Horse think of be accuracy of, the Honourable
Geialemaii's information, when they %Vele informed,
that Sir 11. Lee, wa, not in the Commission of the
Peace in any county of Ireland ?—(lf r, keerr).-
11,-: Lad made every inquiry into the conduct of the
siscriffs in Ireland, who alleged corruption was so
popular a topic bete, and he bad been unable tc find
any !melt case. Ha should only say, that whenever
such a case should be brought under the notice of
Government, it should assuredly be visited by con-
puni.hment. It' the Honourable Gentleman
would point Out any cases of corruption, he could
assure him the strictest inquiry should be made. He
had for the first time heard that night, that the She:if
of Dublin received money fur notsumcnoning wealthy
individuals on Juries. All he could say on the sudden
was, that, from the papers on .the table, it appeared
that the mast respectable and wealthy inhabitants in
Dublin had i'een summoned on Grand Juries. On
tine subject of the Bench, he could only say, that,
with the exception of the single Judge, whom the
1-lon. Gentleman named, the other eleven were, in his
(Mr. Goulburn's) opinion, wholly free from blame.
'The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had alluded to a
particular charge to a Gi and Jury, made by •a
learned and venerable Judge (Fletcher) in the year
ISM A charge containing similar sentiments had
been represented to be made by the same Judge in
1;:1 1 ; and when he returned to Dublin from the
Circuit, be was asked whether the sentiments put for-
ward in the statement printed in the Newspapers
were in reality his own opinions? Ile replied that'
they were not, and that on the contrary the state-
ment was at variance with the opinions he entertained.
If, therefore, such a misrepresentation could be made
at one time, and upon the same subject, there was at
least some doubt as to the correctness of the charge
pr hoed in 1814. With regard to the corruption in
Juries, the Criminal Petitions to the Lord Lieutenant
prevented any iii effects from arising on that account.
The Government investigated the whole cases over
again, and decided upon their merits as to whether
the Jury had done its duty or not. But the Hon.
Gentleman said that corruption was not confined to
the administration of criminal justice, but had also
crept into the management of civil cases, so that a
Roman Catholic could not obtain any imp irtial deci-
sion. Against this charge he had not only the evidence
of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, but that of the
Petitioners themselves. When he heard that the Ca-
tholics were dissatisfied with the decisions upon the
Circuits, he had looked to see what was the propor-
tion of' motions for new trials in Ireland and England.
But then it would be said that the same objection
existed in the Court of King's Bench as in all others.
They were all Protestant Judges, and
,therefore no
just or honest decisions could be expected. But he
had in his hand a speech of Mr. O'Connell's, in which
he eulogized all the Judges of the Court of King's
Bench, and held them up to the world as bright ex-
amples of learning and honesty. Upon examining
this subject, he fistula that in the last year there were
thirty-two motions for new trials in Ireland, and in
England, for the same 'period, 114. It was impos-
sible for any one to say that this proportion sheaved
any distrust in the administration of civil justice upon
the Circuits. He should not pretend to compete with
the lion. Gentleman in declamation, and in ap-
pealing to the passions of the House; because if he
had the power of doing so, this was not a case in
.shich he should exercise it. He desired only to meet
with facts, that which had no facts to support it. The
House was called upon to take this most important
step upon the testimony of those who were the com-
mon depositaries of all Roman Catholic grievances.—
Against it they had the testimony of the Marquis We-
llesley, of the Attornay-General, of the Solicitor-Ge-
acrid, and of himself. That of the two last would, of
course, be suspected by those Hon. Gentlemen oppo
site, who thought that no one who entertained hosti-,
lity towards granting all that the Catholics asked,.l
could conscientiously discharge a public duty. But
there had been at least nothing in the conduct-of the
Marquis Wellesley, since his residence in Ireland,
which could induce any one to suppose that he had not
au equal care.for the interests of alt classes, and an ar-
dent desire to preserve an equal administration of the
laws. He was confident that Parliament would not
consent to a measure which went to vilify every,
Member of the Irish Government—every honourable
character in the land—merely because there were
persons weak or wicked enough to suppose that
upon their assertion only the House would be ready
to take such a course.

Sir H. PARNELL could state some facts 'to the
Right Hon. Gentleman, of which he believed him
not to be aware. He then referred to some witnesses
before the Committee on the Usury Laws, who had
stated the cause of the reluctance of capitalists to vest
money in Ireland to he the difficulty of procuring the
Sheriffs' writs. He had been informed that Judge
Fietcher's charge was published and edited by himself
in 1814.. Ile believed that a great deal of abuse pre-
vailed among the inferior Law Officers in Ireland.
He had known a practice among the Sub-Sheriffs to
put a magis name on the list of Jurymen if he did
not pay him :is. This was not a general and random
charge made by the• Catholics against the institutions
of Ireland. They did not complain of the Court of
King's iiench or Common Pleas, nor of the Judges
or Sheriffs Courts. The complaint was specifically
Against the appointment of Juries by partizan She-
riffs, so that on political trials the Catholics could
put no faith in the administration of justice. The corn-
,plaint wasltbat when violent Protestants were brought
to trial there were no convictions.
Colonel BARRY said, if Government allowed a
Parliament PfCatholics to assemble in the vicinity of,
the Castle of .Dublin, they would deserve the
bation of ever); honest man the toning. qz.
.uch language was 44 forth, that 00,Q09 Orange.'
men continued to massacre .theCitholics of Ireland,.
Government would be insaae to .allow such ,an as-
sensbly. They had talked in. :their meeting that
'20,000 men were nothing to Captain Roek's.&rce in
one county. The .kiou.. and Learped- Gentleman had
not stated any facts on which tp.fiimicl a motion.for
.t reference to the Grand Committee of Justice. He
held the whole language that had been used. as a
iibel on the people of Ireland. quot4j the peti-
tipn,. wilco:. it At4ted that 4,he 4ible.was Atibzward, ••

'~ - -

a: recommending ind4criminate mwacre of the Ca.
tholics by the Protestants. He maintained, that there
never was a more inf.:VE.lons falsehood put torch,: est.
cept in a Work -entitle" " The Orange System itn-
masked." Allusi9ir 404 been made to a charge said
to have been ciolivered by iCIr. Justice Fletcher, but
what would the. !rouse say, when he informed theM
that he was the Foreman Ofthe Grand Jury-to whom
it was pretertd#d- that charge was delivered-; and
that, in subseqtrent.coevarsations with that une4
Judge be had agreed in opinion With him (Colonel
Barry) that scarcely one sentence in' these pre!
tended charges liad ever been uttered by hint?—
As long as men are men, there must be etrorswhere
party differences and party spirit exist. The state of
Ireland was now not far removed from rebellion,. and
it should be put down by the, strong hand of power:
fcr, without that, measures of conciliation would nei-
ther be a pallative nor a cure. He admitted fully, that
there were mischievous publications on both sides.—
He would, therefore,entrust the Government with more
power to put down such publications and harangues.

Mr. C. HUTCHINSON agreed that things could
not go on as they were ; and that efficient tneaspres
ought to be adopted, but not by fetterin the press.
He would tell his Right Hon. Friend, that the as-
sembling of the Catholic Committee had been occa-
sioned by the rebellious opposition to the King's let-
ter of conciliation and his Government, in the person
of Lord Wellesley, by that faction which insolently
called itself the only loyal subjects iu Ireland. That
faction was composed of men who goaded the people
of Ireland to rebellion in 1798, and then did not put
It down by the strong hand of power, Exit attempted
to continue that rebellion by every species of perse-
cution and cruelty—(Neer, hear). He wished to have
no angry debates or discussions in Ireland, and that
they should leave the care of that country to the
King's Government and the Parliament, from which
he had no doubt the greatest good would result.—
The violent language used h the Catholic debate% by
Mr. O'Gorman, if true, arose from the mat! publica-
tion of Sir Harcourt Lees, wit's had sounded the
charge to the Protestants of Ireland, and though a
respectable man otherwise, yei on tuatters of religion
he was perfectly absurd. He wished to do justice to
his country, and he would not allow her to be called
a nation of barbarians. The people of Ireland had a
right to stand high in the estimation of. Parliament.
They had behaved as well in thefield, and were as
capable of fulfilling every other duty, as the proud
Britons, Welchmen, or Scotchmen. He thought that
his Honourable and Learned Friend hal laid suffi-
cient grounds for referring the Petition to.the Grind
Committee of Justice. As the Catholics had had
emancipation held out to them to consent to the
Union with this country, and faith in that respect
had not been kept with them, he hoped they would at
least receive their Petition. At a time t% hen no man
could answer for the peace of Europe for ten days
together, he wished Ministers to take the advice of a
decided political enemy, " unite the empire at home,
and you are invincible abroad."

Mr. ABERCRONI BY said, the question which
the House had now to consider was, whether, in the
present state of Ireland, it was likely justice in her
subordinate parts could be fairly administered? It
should be recollected, that the greater portion of the
Magistracy of Ireland were at present Protestants,
whilst the greater part of the population were Ca-
tholics; and was it likely, that whilst Orange Asso-
ciations remained, and whilst the present system ex-
isted, that justice would be duly administered?—
There was a point still remaining which bad not been
touched, namely, this, that the facts which had been
stated had not been contradicted ; especially the
letter written by the late Attorney -General of Ire-
land to Lord Norbury. He thought, though no spe-
cific facts were stated in the Petition, still a general
case was made out, which called for consideration,
and therefore he should su,pport the motion.
Mr. 11. MARTIN was convinced, that if the Peti-
tioners had sent a brief to the Hon. and L?arned
Gentleman for his opinion on their Petition, he would
'have advised them not to have presented it. It was
so inflammatory, so devoid of all argument and all
reasoning, that the Hon. and Learned Gentle6san, in
his emphatic tcne, would have said to these Peti-
tioners, the House of Commons was not to be bullied.
He (Mr. Martin) thought it was impossible to have a
better Magistracy than at present existed in Ireland.
With regard to the charge of Judge Fletcher that
had been alluded to, he could inform the House, that
he had spoken to all the other Judges on that subject,'
and they had uniformly given it as their opinion, that
the delivery of that charge ought to have removed
Judge Fletcher from the Bench, of whom it might
be said, nothing became him so much as his death.

Mr. PEEL assured the House that he intended to
confine himself to the subject. Out of eighty-fotit
days the House had devoted to business, forty-nine
had been applied to Irish business. This was at kast
a strong ground for confining himself to the subject.
The question was, whether the House ought to ap-
point a Committee to inquire into the Administration
of Justice? such a proceeding had not been adopted
doting the last century. What was the cause for such
enquiry. He had too muchrespect for the Catholics
of Ireland to suppose they were the authors of this in•
flammatory and ferocious statement. The charges
against the Protestants, and the Corporation of Dab-
lin were scandalous. A Committee of that House
was then sitting on the affairs of the Corporation of
Dublin, and he entreated the House. to suspend their
judgment until the Report was received. This decla-
mato; y statement was in the style of a condemned tia-
gedy rather than a statement of facts. He (Mr. Peel)
felt bound to defend the Protestant population of
Dublin. The Hon. Member for Cork had, in the most
manly way, denied on every occasion that Protestants,
had endeavoured to injure their Roman Catholic
bxethm. The complaint was that the Sub,ShecilL
bad not done their duty in executing the King's writ.'
This was a' grievance if it were trite, but he denied-
*at it affected the Roman Cathojics. The Petition;
eatne from an association called the Catholic. Asso-
ciation, vdaciabout ten years ago published st general.
which it was declared that•Proteitaut
murderers tvere protected and cherished for the
'alma. A case was added, in svhich an innocent CA.
Arlyglic :was desptibodto have. Ixen.pzecnted. and that
bellied professing his innocence. On.the appearance
of the statement a.prusecution naa cticninenced for a
libel. It appeared by the re sort ,of the Lefined
Sedge who tried, the man, and theadtnisinm of the'
. , ,

-

prisoner's COunsel, that his reliion was not known:
The Attorney-teneral to that hour did. not know the
man's religion. 'The' Rightlionourblrle t..ntletean
read the charge of Judge hleshe, and the defence
made by the prisoner's Ctruntel, by which thelalse-
hood and malignity of' the libel seas clearly etia-
blished. The conSfirct of 'the Judges'was pule with
respect to the appointment df Magistrates. Lord
Manners would never attend to representations against
Magistr..tes‘ proceeding froth political feelitag.--..
Great difficulty attended the removal of Magistrates.
In a late 'affray in the North of Ireland; • the troops
were called out, lout the peopte exclaimed, " There
is no Magistrate, don't mind the troops, they cannot
fire." They preceedel to knock down the soldiers,
who fired, and several lives were lost. A few .days
before the Magistrate bad been removed by Lord
Manners. That circurnst.orce was sufficient to shear
the danger arising frrwn the'removal of Magistrates.
The Right Hononrahle Gentleman defens the con-
duct of Major Sirr, against what he considered un-
just accusations. He had seen no reason for remov-
ing Major Sin from the Magistracy. With respect
to Mr. Justice Fletchtm's charge, that Judge was dead,
and consequently hi was prevented from making
any remarks. on the,subject. He. bad in his posses-
sion Mr. Justice Fletcher's charge, and he should
only say, it differed from the charge which had been
publishel In his conclusion ahe Learned Jade
said, " Until these Associations are put down in the
North of Ireland, and the arms taken from tlagir
hands, it will be in vain to look for peace." • Ile
did not consider that part of the charge as at all re-
prehensible, mote especially as Judge Fletcher was
speaking of the. North of Ireland, where disturb-
ances prevailed on the subject of illicit distillation.
lie adverted to the letter ot Mr. Saurin, said to have
been found by a Catholic Peiest. Could the House
of Commons discuss such adocument? He regretted
that any Catholic Priest could have been guilty of so
much dishonour as not to return that letter to the
owner. The use made of it could only tend to pro-
duce a breach between Protestant and Catholic. Mr.
Saurin for fifteen 'years filled the office of Attorney.
General, and at the end of that time refused the offer
of a Peerage, and the rank of Lord Chief Justice.—
He was sorry the Honourable and Learned Gentle..
Man had felt it necessary, after what had already
passed on that subject in a former Session, to refer
again to this subject. The letter in question was a
private one, written twelve years ago, by one pri-
vate individual to another, in confidence, and never
intended for publication. This the Honourable Gen-
tleman appeared to have acknowledled, whcu the
subject was formerly meationed, and then consented
to la the subject drop ; and sorry he was, that after
the lapse of a year—after the Hon. Gentleman bad
all that time for reflection, and for his better feelings
to get the better of politicalAyarmth.--sorry, indet;d,
was he now to find that the Honourable Gentleman
had again thought it necessary to bring it forward.
The only remaining charge
.agairst Lord Nor-
bury was, that that N. and Learned Lord had
made a joke.' Now he certainly did not mean to say
that it wrath' not be more desirable .that the business
of the Coon should be carried on with solethnity ;
but it was something hard to bring a serious charge
against an able Judge, because he had, for a moment,
forgotten the_solemnity of the Bench, and fallen into
the error to which his countrymen were so subject, of
displaying a brilliant wit, and making a good joke.
Next, as to the Lord Chancellor, it appeared, that
since he had held tha't situation no less than 2700
causes bad been decided, and out of that number he
had had only I I judginents reversed. The Learned
Gentleman had said, that one out of two of Lord
.Manners's judgments had been reversed; instead of
which, it now appeared, that out of every two hun-
dred decrees, only one. had oeen reversed. Under
all these circumstances, he never could consider this
Petition as the Petition of the great body of the Ca-
tholics ; or that, if they had bad any grounds for pre-
ferring these charges, they would have contented
themselves with bare assertion ; and, believing this
Petition to be intended only for party purposes, be
could not consent to found any Parliamentary pro-
ceedings upon it.

Mr. BROUGHAM said, any one who had only
heard the Hon. Secretary's speech must suppose that
he (Mr. Brougham) had made a statement, on making
the motion, wholly different from that which a part
of his present audience had done him the hOnour to
hear. He must thank the Hon. Member for Galway
(Mr: Martin) for the jocose notice he took of his
speech, which was the most successful piec:r of mi-
micry he had ever witnessed, and must congratu-
late the Right, Hon. Secretary, who, he believed was
called-the Manager, for having so able a performer to
close the Padiamentary season—(Great laughter).
The Hon. Secretary said, the appeals from the Irish
Court of Chancery were mistated on a former nithr,
but his corrected statement proved that the propor-
tion reversed was correctly stated. He had also ex-
pressed his horror at making any allusion to Ali.
'Saurin's letter ; considering the treachery by which it
Oust have been obtained, he said, in the climax pf
his indignation, and it was impossible for conderu-
nation to go beyond it—it might hav:e been pro-
cured by bribing servants to rob their matters—aye,
and their mistresses too (exclaimed Mr: Brougham,
the House resounding with cries of Hear; .hearl.
That House !radio its.possession agrees bag crammed
with documents procured by such treachery prac-
tised against the Queen—(The cries of Hear, hcai!
confirmed to resound).—How would the Honourable
ietary, alter the feelings of horror he had et-
pressed at the treachery by which the nation was its-
sulted—he had Almost said, degraded, in the face pf
the world—how could he sit in Council with any two
of his caleagues who 'had countenanced the procur-
ing such documents, by ratans to which all common
treachery was comparatively respectable—( Continua
pies of Hear).—The Honourable Gentleman, con-
chided by pressing the necessity of sending the,l!eti-
don to a Committee.
Mr. HUTCHINSON rose to explain. He was proceeding
to repeat the cobsctvarions of his former speech, when halos
iptesrupteli by loud cries of " Chair, chair.!
. The SPCAIiEIt said, that p Member was only rselOttkin
explinatiou to correct any rn6represuntation of his
net to repeartliote which be bad already uttened,Dietekt7
was then cleared for!, division, svhsu thexe.appeas,4
Ayes • 59
Noes
-.- 139 :
Majority against the motion —so
The Or ders of the Day were then disposed of? and the house
at 21.''QUAITZE P-skt Two eiViocx.

v ,

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