Star.
London, England, 1812-07-14 00:00:00

PEACE PRESERVATION RILL.

Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the order of the 1
day for the second reading of this Bill.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that having now had
an opportunity of reading this Bill, he had not alter-
ed his opinion with regard to it, but was more dis-
posed to object to it than before. The preamble
stated, that assemblies of men were in the habit of
forcibly demanding, and taking arms; but he-would
deny that the recital which it contained was founded
on any adequate authority. The information had
come from Magistrates who were actuated bj. their
fears, and through other channels, where opinions
were taken up as to the origin of these disorders,
which were totally different from the real causes.—
He would again repeat, that due exertions had not
been made to preserve the peace of the disturbed dis-
tricts under the existing laws. In some cases the
Magistrates had been swpine, and in others, they
had acted with violence, and from a perverted judg-
ment. There was every appearance of the cessation
cf disorder. From the 23d of June, wl:en the Secret
Committee was appointed, down to Ft id !y last, there
had been no evidence of any act of disturbance at all.
The preamble besides asserted, what was not proved
in the Committee, that there were assemblages amen
learnini in part the use of arms. There was no one
tittle or evidence to that effect. There was no oral
testimony; all that was produced by the Noble Lord,
Was a mere hearsay in writing, in which a man told
us, that on a Sunday, during divine service, there were
300 persons assembled at one place, for the purpose
of learning the use of arms. But all this was merely
what a person had heard. The recital of the Bill,
he would contend, was false, and therefore the enact-
ments 4liould fall to the ground. These enactments
appeared to him objectionable in the extreme. As to
the persons who had blackened their faces, and disfi-
gured themselves for the purpose of concealment, and
had attended the meeting on Dean-mcor, near Man-
chester, it wrned out that ten of them were spies
sent out by/Tie Magistrates; and the only other man
present, who was similarly disguised and with fire-
arms, was one Hurst, who was now under sentence
of transportation. These spies were the very ring.
leaders of the mischief, and incited the pi-or le to acts
which they would not have thcught of. bush a prac-
tice should not go on—(Hear) ; and T; wculd never
consent to entrust new powers to Magistrates who had
thus grossly misconducted themselves. 'The Hon.
Member for Yorkshire had ascribed the evil to certain
inflammatory and seditious publications; but he, and
other Gentlemen who thought with him, had in the
same breath, declared, that work, and a lower prioe of
provisions, were likely to render the people tranquil.
The Honourable Gentleman's mind seemed in 4 state
of alarm and consternation ; and, of course, his ideas
were not likely to be clear. One Gentleman in the
country had conceived the whole to be a plot, di-
rected by persons of consequence in London. Nay,
he hehi a deposition in his hand, which had been
taken from a person confined in Lancaster gaol, in
which an opinion was stated, that he (Mr. Whit-
bread) was one of the heads of the plot.—(Hear.)—
The only circumstance in which such a report could
originate was, his having written-a letter to the ma.
nutacturers of nolton, in which he gave them the best
advice he was able. So ridiculous were the ideas'
entertained by some people in that part of the coun-
try, that there was even some expectation of getting
the Duke of York to give them support. These ideas
of plots were ridiculous in one point of view, but base
in another, because there was too much reason to be-
lieve that the absurdities had been propagated by
some of the. Magistrates. A convict had given in a
declaration affecting a very respectable man, who was,
however, a Presbyterian, and the consequence was,
his character had been implicated, and he was marked
out by the Magistrates. The Honourable Member
then adverted to information which he had received
from the Potteries, which represented the workmen
as now employed, tranquil and happy. He .depre-
cated the introduction of the Bill at all ; and though i
he anticipated little support, he should divide Ole'
House against it. He protested against the measure ;
more especially when he considered how similar
powers were exercisedin Ireland ; not merely in times
of confusion, as the Noble Lord had stated, but in
general orders, calmly issued by Generals and Magis-
trates, and which showed that they acted under the
consternation of fear, which was the cruelest as well
as the blindest of passions. The abolition of the Or-
ders in Council had done much to restore tranquillity,
but the restoration of a general peace would do more.
The' e was a prospect that it might be now obtained
on honourable terms; and he for one would prefer
the extermination of the country rather than consent
to dishonourable oneso—(licar.)—lt would do much
to tranquilize the people, were they convinced that
the continuance of war was not the fault of their own
Government, but of the enemy. He was inclined to
think, that about three weeks ago France had trans-
mitted offers of negociation, and he should wish to
hear why they had not been accepted.
Mr. SMITH (Member for Cambridge University)
had expected that the report would have. been ac-
companied with some extracts from the evidence. He
was glad that there appeared no satisfactory ground
for the rumours, that persons of high rank were im-
plicated in these insurrectionary combinations, and
that large funds existed for their maintenance—at the
same time it seemed evident, that a powerful. conspi. I

racy did exist ; obscure indeed, but not the less dal.
gerous for its obscurity.—The Report abstained pr,ri
plying any cause or remedy for 61 evil—it be.
came, therefore, the more b:tuntien duty of tle
House to consider these objects. The causes had
been referred to the distresses of war, and to the oven.
tions of the Orders in Council—and it was true, that
no outrage had been committed since the ,e3tl if
Juine. But one feature of the case wtitilA b, orot!t,,a
unless it were allowed, that thong!' t:,. origin of
the
evil might have been commercial, yet it had as,unted
a political character, and was n w aimed to &limy
all property and wealth. Ibe dittresses 4.1 ih, ct tut.
try had furnished a golden opportunity to t 1 me tut.
billent ipirits, who can only cis,: to the top by m-ans
of agitation. These men had seized the occasion to
delude and ruin the distrossed manufzcsiirets. Hi
agreed 06 the Honourable Member for York 4,„;
that much of the mischief was to be attrbuted tot*
publication of calumnies against public men. He
did not mean to impugn the liberty of the pros: it
was as necessary as the air we britubed,bot if the
air was agitated into storm, or the free press dime*
its efforts to the destructiiai of his character or re►
perty, he thought he 'might use legal means Carla
defence in one case, as tie would adopt anificid
means fur his shelter in the other. In order to nib
tain the peace of the c, entry, it was above an this
necessary, that the Government 1
should be atm
and it could only be strong and efficacious kythir,
ing a disposition to listen to and relieve allonyms
t . —an jubtification of the measures now peopled, is
could state, that represent duns had been made w
Government for acme months on account of die t&
turbid state.rf eiose northern districts ; net was it
right to reflect on die Magistrates, it they hadtcn
the usual means inadequate to die preservation eithi
peace. He did not know that (;overnment had dal
all that could have Inc!' dome; perhaps motet*
have beta effected by means of use secretme.; service ! ney, and the stipendiary police--yet, at au, rdel
Parliament should not now withhild its aid : ahid.
reluscd, would encontage the dibc-ntented is al
same proportion, as et would, if granted, ittspiorthe
Magistrates in their elution's Tbere were two r„..
1 ciples which should be-kept m sight ; one was, at
the Bill should be temporal, and oor the show
1 possible time, and the mitt that no poW er shooldtt
given to Magisuates, escrpt what is absolutely m-
g:tired t• for.so.muela power as is given to the*.
gistrate, su much is taken away from the subject—
'file Honourable Gent!, man then expressed it deal
his approbation of the claus..s of the Bill, except I'4
which empowered any two Magistrates to scut set
raan's aims on demand. The principle Lai whit"
alone any seizarE 01 alms was jus, ifiabie, was, thatis
those disturbed places it would be mere coudocinto
the general safety that arms should be taken poses.
sion of by the Magistrates, than that they sheralil
be seized by the disaffected—yet, there was chicon.
sequence likely to et:sue, that by taking away a
man's arms, they took away his best security amid
the attack of these robbers.—The Honouraale Gee
tleman then sat down amid cries of Hear, Hear, lion
the Ministerial Benches.

Mr. FITZGERALD thought the speech of di.
last Honourable Member a complete answer to the
speech of the Member for Bedford, in all thAtrelatei
to the character and foam of the distinbaicesties
under discussion. The Honourable Member fieln .
ford had founded his objections to the Bill ea we
grounds—individual instances of misconduct wit
dart of Magistrates, and the manner in which a simi.
I lar weasure was executed in Ireland. but thew.
1 stance of Magisterial misconduct was almcbt.too de,
; picable to .be mentioned ; and with respect to he-
land, it ought not to be forgotten in what a statethst
country was at the time of adopting those IMAMS
I He could state, from his own knowledge, that tie
I acts which mere afterwards sanctioned by the Eat
i lish Parliament—the Arms Act, and the lnsurrw
tionary Act, were never in any 0.. e instahceenlorced
alter their re-enactment. As to the argument shwa
the t racticat.ility. of obtaining a peace, be mall
thought it wits one from which the Hon. Member
should most alefully have aliXtained, tuiless be had
felt convinced that their was cone possibility ciao
tabling it on honourable terms ; and on no other term
he was happy to hear, would that Hon. Gentienus
consent that it should be o...tained:
Sir FRA NCiS BURDEI.7 observed, that the
Member for Cambridge had expressed his opiaicer,
that the cumoinatiolis were estemely elangeroos,asd
(Ailed tor extraordinary powers to suppres ; but se
(Sir F.) could not agree with the Hun. A-mber be
low him (Mr. Whituread) that there was nurse&
tient evidence to support the preamble of the bill.
He was no Iliend to esti.. me measures—it was co,
mon for bad Governments to push matters tumid:►
ties,and then to make those very extremities a growl
for extraordinary measures. He did mean to impel
such conduct to the present Administration.—K
such was the metbod of proceeding, which a badCt
vernment could always adopt if it pleased. Ow.
the present Bill, he disliked it altoetrier—lie
vgli
its title—it was called a bill for Pihe preset ,„,
the peace : it ought Co have been called hial•
disturuing *the peace of counties by giving estor:
dinary powers to Magistrates. He was 1t1104101..
creasing the power of those authorities, as he dot
it had been already abused ; they had been ge4ll.
the most improper acts in the employment of 11111
and instigators of crime—a speciesot meschievous.ss!
duct, which waerusually imputed only to the doh
The Metilber for Camb,:tige waived a strong Goa'
went; he (sir F.) thought the Gove;ninent 00
strong enough ; it had strength to carry any mesoP!
it pleased, against either the laws or the constitution
and, indeed, the members of it tuok credit to tho
selves foi having, in the present Bill, producid o.ol_
a slight infringement of the Constitution, when tag
would have been fully supported if they hastitoZ
posed much greater violations of the accu
law. He saw no necessity for the present mes°..
__!
Ministers. themselves did not deny that the. di'
bances were subsiding, and yet this was sbe_ :!:
when every man's liberty was to be put et
discretion of the suspicions of the MAgisu c l tir.
That those men were very capable of error, r
almost daily instances in the papers. There. waste
....a
lately detailed, where two young men, who 14 . 'l'i
employed to work in a gentlenian'
had very naturally contracted an intimacy .
obnossoul
servants, had, on that account, become . ~sages
the gentleman, and were by him carried mg
Magistrate. This Magistrate, who WAS 4
s house,
cy panda ao

I

II
C

be
4that the Clerical. MigistraMagistracy, forid exercising their, power,
. particularlydrlte
meta the men to viol on a charge el berg-
r d cam Qf therni had. died ;n • prison, lustily from
t
:Ceph One
and partly from anxiety; and the Gsmtd
the bill against the other. This
Lrc j .thrown utlf
as opt a soli•:zry instance of the improper conduce
-dze authorities, and in his mind it would conduce
to the peace of the country if the powers of Na-
tal
• trees were curtailed instead of being enlarged,
t fits curious to observe the .different views which
. Limo' the same thing at different times. For.
it in a crisis of difficulty and danger, the whole
antry was armed, and every Sheriff and district
isdowerahle for the preservation of the peace.-
1, was the object of that statute which he had re-
, Itied to the Watch and Ward Committee,
with proper alteratiens, might easily be
011;tiited to meet modern exigencies. The statute
p Edw. 1. directed, that arms should be put in every
umes hods ; but now the practice is to disarm the.'
oh: population. He could not conceive a more '
inodiwg. a more slavish act, and for his own part
tali rather die on the threshold of his door than
bate thearms seized and carried out of his house.—
;me idea that the Member for Bedford should be
--titheabid instigator of the riots was treated with
istalie; but it should be recollected that this sort
dodo was believed in the country ; and indeed
stokes and hints of a similar nature were some.
times thrown out in that House. Last Friday the
ri.,seastary for the Home Department had hinted
twig (Sir Francis) had some sir tematic design in
tiew,though he had not condescended to explain its
Datum ; one design, one darling system he had, and
&lid have through his political lite, which was, that
ttepeopk might be properly Represented; and cor-
optinilueree be driven from that if iuse. He again
pleated that he saw nothing in the present distur.
Imes to justify an infringement ofi the established
Is; the safest method would be, to adhere strictly
' ethatlaw which had bees' found effectual already
ithe punishment of several offenders. The Hon.
Neat then suggested, that perhaps the spies were
with the money of Government, and were en-
din bodies to spread alarm through the country,
saground for the present extraordinary measures 1 .
litany rate, he was firmly convinced, that the existing
lims would be quite sufficient to repress the existing

Mr. SMITH said a few words in explanation. . •
Mr. GRANT did not think that the present Bill
was any departure from the old principles of the Con-
stitution, but rather an adherence to them. The Ho-
nourable Baronet had properly said, that the exigency ,
of the case could alone justify extraordinary measures;
this exigency must, indeed, be matter of opinion
but he was astonished that the Hon. Baronet, and
the Hon. Member for Bedford, could see no symp-
toms of such a state of critical difficulty and danger
in the Report before the House. For his own part,
be saw it in the account of societies combined, and •
siliated, and bound by a dreadful oath of fidelity.
True it was, that no outrage had happened during t
the last fortnight, but the seeds of the evil still re-;
wined, the actors were still alert, the system was
; and it should be recollected, that a system 1
maybe easily laid aside for a while, and as easily, be
it:mulled into action. Whatever were the causes
lies disturbances, whether purely arising from
depressere of the times, or whether it is, toe de-
igning persons have taken advantage of mentary
causes of excitement, still the effects must be anxiously
baked at and guarded ainst ; and he did not think
the House would be juststied in parting for the sum-
mer, without proposing some Legislative remedy
against such disorders. Whatever the causes might
bare been, it must be recollected, that effects usually
ionise the causes which produce them. Although
many consider those disturbances as unamnected
with politics,he could not view them in that light.—!
lie should not refer merely to the Repr.•t of the ;
Committee, but to the common feeling and under-
iundiug of tie country. Was it to i.e supposed, that:
these nocturnal meetings--those mysterious associa-
boo; hitherto unknown to Englishmen—those oaths
...that vigilance of nightly drilling—were all these
sfelitoms of nothing more than common discontents,
%trom commercial pressure ? And yet some
nris Members conceived the laws as they note, stand I
Nte sufficient. The disturbers, however, laeghed 1
gibe laws. It was under the shelter of the laws ;
that they planned the overtbtow of all law. It was
ander the very wing of the Constitution that they
hatched their plots to subvert the Constitution. The
l'etalar march of justice and the law was slow 'and
deliberate ; too slow to 'keep pace with tire crimes
thatmay be committed in times of turbulence. It
was quite an abuse of terms to talk of presuming
every one innocent in the face of convicted and daring
guilt. He must, therefore, invoke the Constitution
to put forth its powers, and assume the energies which
belong to it, to overtake the -kapid march of crime, I
thich the slow-pace of ordinary justice could not keep
; to arrest the career of sedition and anarchy,
1,21°1 by any new principles, but by those which ;
I_7 inherent in it, to restore to peace and social
...'l,'Psess that which now appeared lullof turbulence ,
danger. (Considerable applause, and cries of hear.)
.„51,4. FRAN LAND was; afraid that any thing he ,
rid say would only lessen the effect of the adnrira- '
17, Vetch they had just heard from the Gentleman
iarlo spoke last. The Committee had been appointed
the manner the most conformable to all precedent,
and se. hen their report was attacked, he did not think '
that it could be said that they had either reported
is or assigned motives which did not exist. As j
ti the facts,gas he knew nothing himself, and therefore
~s
posed to takethem from those who were trust-
tu to
consider conremedisider them and make the Report ; but as to
reie es which were proposed he dcubted much
ieetbrnuser they would not produce a contrary effect.—
the s
.t own, that he felt difficulties himself upon I
übject ; and if the same difficulties were felt by
si
*ls, when the Bill came into the Committee, he
!rGtid gladly agree toa modification et tke measures
rmsed. He had great hopes that -those distur-
4tes would soon, cease without the application of;
limese.,_ asesm edies. !re was a liability ;in the body
welt as in the natural body, to temporary
zasoLim..e
ations, and feverish symptoms, which often
huls:h!r own,eure without the assistance of via
lie remedies. There were epidemiek disorders in
ertintkea al as well as the physical world, which were
elm ;pleated by the remedies prescribed to cure I
10 follow up the illustration, he would say,

that in both cases they generally proceeded from ob-
atructioni and want of proper circulation, which af-
terwards produced inflammation and feverish symp-
toms. If there were predisposing causes it was not
to be supposed that the disorder was to be cured in a
' day. To chronic diseases *a course of alterative me- j
&eine Must be applied ; and we must b. content to
Strait with some little patience for the cure. In ex-
traordinary cases, it must be allowed that extraordi-
nary powers were necessary, not for the sake of in-
creasing the sum of human suffering, but for the sake
. of humanity to diminish it. He conside-ed that the most
noble remedy whiclehad as yet been administered to the
disorder.was the- virtuous resignation and patient
suffering of the Master Manufacturers, who had con-
tinued generally to employ their workmen to their
own very great loss. It was natural, that on this
question a reference should be made to what had
happened in Ireland on a former occasion. The de-
tails of what had been done in Ireland, to put down
the spirit of insurrection, were hideous and disgust-
ing ; and, although he might look to Ireland for an
example of the dreadful mischiefs of a civil war, he!
certainly would never look to any thing that was c
done in Ireland, as a remedy to prevent those cala-
mities. If he wanted to find a remedy, he must look
to some other school. Disorders of long standing
could only be cured by remedies of slow operation.—
He believed that there were, and naturally must be,
some disaffection in this as well as every other coun-
try. It you were to change your government and
laws every day, there must still be men discontented
with their situation, and who conceived they did not
possess as much of rank, power, or the good things
of this world as they were entitled to. He tl• ought
that it would be therefore perictitly in vain for Parlia-
mentio hope by any measures which they should re-
solve upon entirely to put down disaffection. Tf the
proposed measu-, s e erg to be adopted, he thought
that it would have a very good effect, if they were
accompanied by a proclamation of pardon, which
was a thing by no means unusual among measures
for putting down distm bances.
Mr. BROUGHAM began by saying, that he •
hardly knew how to characterise what had ifillen
from his Honourable Fr lend who spoke last. If he
were merely to call it a speech, it would appear like
not treating with sufficknt respect the rili dical sci-
ence it contained; and if Le. were to call it a pi IJscriii-
tion, he thought it was much tor. long.. (illasish.)—
lie was afraid that his education in that science, had
been too dnfective to enable him to grapple with the
inateria medica of his Honourable Friend. He was,
however, perfectly convinced in his own mind, that
the remedy which Ministers proposed was a great
dial worse than the disease. If the country did not
abscilutely die Of the doctor, lie was convinced it would
suffer much by his prescription. He fell the full
force of the speech of his Honourable Friend (Mr.
-Grant) which had been so much admired by the
House. He, howevir, had had many other opportu-
tunities of witnessing the display, f those talents,_and,
therefore, although equally pleased, he felt less sur-
prized. He must, however, grapple with what had
fallen' rom his two Honourable Friends. The first
of them (Mr. Grant) had gone -
so much..,into gene-
rals, and the other so much into the details of another i
science, that they both appeared to lose sight of the
question under discussion thii night ; which was, !
whether the Report of the Committee was of such im-
portance, as to authorize or justify the Monti! in
adopting the measures which were proposed? In the
Report of the Connnittee he could see nothing bnt
vaguegeneralities; and neither of them had alluded
to any particulat facts. He would allow that effects.,
were apt for some time to survive the causes which '
prOduced them ; and it was on that very account that
he, attributing the disturbances merely to distress,
thought that till, should wait some weeks, he might
say some days longer, to see whether those distu; bances
would not subside of themselves, without the necessity
of any new measures. It was very natural that he and his
Hon. Friend, the Member for Bedford( Mr.Whitbread )
should contend that Parliament had a•ready provided
a sufficient remedy for the disorders, in repealing the
Orders in Council. It did not follow, indeed, that
the effect was to be absolutely instantaneous, but he
believed that the remedy had acted as rapidly as could
be expected, and that of itself it would be found quite
sufficient. An Honourable and Learned Friend of
his (Mr. Stephen) had just entered the House, and
fitter rather a long absence, now giatified their long
big eyes. (A laugh.) He underse od that he me ant
to contend that those disturbances were not at all
connected with commercial difficulties, or the Orders
in Council, and were not at all affected by their r -
peal. He should, however, beg leave to state a few
facts which would shew the contrary. He should
first appeal to the information which he hpd received
upon that subject, in the correspohdence of a Chari-
table Association, to which he had the honour of be-
longing, as well as his Honourable and Learned
Friend. In mentioning a Charitable Association, he
could not avoid saying, that in those institutions Eng-
land was most admirable, and fdr excelled any other
nation upon earth. Here, in times of the greatest
pressure and difficulty, there never are wanting mu-
nificent subscriptions in aid of any thing which comes
recommended by charity, and more particularly for
the relief of the distresses of our own manufacturers.
In the Association to which he alluded, the Duke of
York was the President, and many, not only of the
most loyal men, but even of the men who most con-
stantly opposed Administration, were members. The
accounts which were therefore transmitted to that
Association, and entered in the records of its corres-
pondence, must be considered as 'quite above any sus-
picion of partiality or faction. In examining those
records, he found it completely confirmed, that the
distress which prevailed was great, general, and un-
exampled. He had looked over alt the correspon-
dence for twenty-two districts, and found that the dis-
turbances were so much connected with the distress,
,that you might directly trace them to it; and when-
ever you found a district where the distress was the
greatest, -in that district also you would find disturb.
ante. In all the correspondence, the digress was
stated. as proceeding from a want of work in conse.i
quence of the peseta state of the manufactures ;" and
many letters referred it directly to the Order, in :
Council, and expressed the strongest pleasure at their
repeal, and their hopes of this measure being an effec-
tual remedy. He should now state a few strong in-
stances of what be had already traced the disturb.l
antes to. At Dolton, in Lancashire, there was a po-
pulation of 17,000 persons, of whom 3000 were'pau-

'pets, besides a large number of persons driven from
their homes by the distress, and a still greater num-
ber who received relief. This was the town from
which most of the disturbances in Lancashire origi-
nated. It was from this place that the forty persons
came who assembled on Dean-moor. This was a
place in which, as it appeared by the correspondence,
there were fewer steps taken for the relief of distress,
than in almost any other town. This scat of distress,
then, became the principal seat of disturbances in
Lancashire. If he could have come before the Com-
mittee (for as for his being a Member of a Commit-
tee so chosen and sn packed by Ministers, there was
little chance of -Oat) he could have laid before them
many facts much more important than those upon
which they reported. At Huddersfield, in Yorkshire,
the distress was still greater than at Bolters ; it was
stated in the correspondence, " that the distress here
was great, unexampled, and wholly beyond the
power of relieving ; that applications were constantly
made for relief in vain, and that not even the most_,
feeble attempts were made at relief." The town or
Huddersfield, so-circumstanced, became what Bolton
was in Lancashire—the principal seat of disturbance
in the county. On the other hand, the town of War-
ton, near Preston, in Lancashire (where there were
5000 inhabitants, manufacturers as iu Bolton, but
who received a considerable relief) was perfectly free
from disturbance. At Warton soup tickets were given
u well as clothes and other relief; and the conses
quence was, that the town remained perfectly tran-
grid. He had it in his power to give many other
examples, and in fact to show that the gradations of
disturbance in the different districts corresponded
with the degrees of &stress. He would not allow
that the bare existence of disease justified us ingultiug
.down the first remedy that any one suggested. fie
thought that if it appeared that the disorder was de-
' creased, common sense would require us to exert a
reasonable degree of From this correspon-
dence it evidently appeared, that the medicine which
had been administered in rescinding the Orders in
Council, was producing themou tranquillising effects.
In a letter, dated the Bth of July, from kludders. ,
field, acknowledging the receipt of 56150, sent
from the association in London, the Secretary, after
suitable acknowledgments of the gift, dwelt on the
pleasure they felt at the removal of the Orders in
'Council, and mentioned that " the yet meagre coun-
tenances of the inhabitants were beaming with•joy,
and that wink was now found for numbers of them."
It was evident that those meagre faces which began
Ito beam with joy, anti those hands now employed in
wrrk, could not be now supposed busy in contemp-
lating or perpetrating acts of murder. He must say
that he had another and a very strong objection to
granting these extraordinary powers to the Magis-
trates; and that was, that he suspected some of the
Magistrates as men not to be entrusted with i.uch
powers, and likely to abuse them. In this he allu-
ded merely to Lancashire, and principally to that
one Magistrate whose representations appeared to
have bad so much influence on the Report of the
Committee. His letters were so inflated with fear
and fancy, that he could not conceive him a man of
sound judgment; and in a Court of Justice he would
doubt any fact stated by so fanciful a man. In one
of his letters he talked-of the restoration of peace,
a when the present generation of disturbers should be
swept into oblivion." Although fehm his expression
'he should consider him a man of unsound judgment,
he considered his acts as of much more Consequence.
lle had absolutely charged with a capital felony a
niostrespeciable Dissenting Clergyman,whom he had
'asses red to have been present, aiding and abetting at
'the destruction ef sonic mills ; and when afterwards
he was called upon . for his „newt icy for so saying,
his i.nswer vva>, that lie had it horn a dying man.—
He must take the liberty to doubt that the dying
man ever did say such, a t!,nsg ani even if he did,
the assertions of a man at the g:tilows are known to
,:be very bad evidence indeed. '1 he Learned Gentle-
man then mentioned the case cf a Gentleman con-
rected with some Magivrates, .;.sting their warrant,
and with a party of Scots Gre.:s taking a Methodist
Preacher out of his pulpit up LI the roost coolish sus-
picions, and thereby irritating very much a body of
men who were peculiarly disposed to be peaceable
and loyal. A man of the name of Hares, who un-
fortunately lived in -ne of those disturbed neighbour-
hoods, was actually compelled to join one of these
unlawful meetings, end to take the oath. This man
was impe..ched by the spies who attended the meet- '
,ing. He was net rich enough to crop toy a Counsel.
and if he had, such Counsel could not have addressed
the Jury on his behalf. The Jury, however, on his
own plain, unvarnished, simple statement of his case,
atti from the activity and bustle which they saw
among those spies, in the Court and about the Jury-
box, acquitted the man, and saved him from the ma-
chinations of those attendants on the Magistrates.—
There was another mischief also to which the un-
happy people in those disturbed districts were liable,i
and against which the House should be careful how
it enlarged the means of increasing it. This was the
insulting a spy. These gentry had of late been raised
to such extraordinary consequence, that to insult one
of them was scarcely one degree removed from the
Crime of insulting a Magistrate. He then mentioned
an instance of a woman who had been met in a public
street by one of those spies, who had taunted her
Ilwith her husband's conduct; and on her expressing
her resentment of his unmanly behaviour in rather
warm terms, she was seized, taken before a Magis-
trate, and punished for insulting this spy. He was
happy to think that his own abhorrence of those de- I
testable characters (spies) was countenanced by the I
high authority of a late Right Honourable Friend
of his, whose lt.cs the House, as well as he. himself,
would long deplore CMr. Windham) who had al-
ways held them in the greatest detestation, and spo-
ken
of them as.miscreants, and pests .of society.—
When it was considered, too, that these men were
paid a very great-price for their services, (some of
them 30s. others 40s. and some two guineas and a
half a week, besides all their expencesi) it was not to
be wondered at that the Magistrates were their stre-
nuous supporters. Here was a -view of part of the
secret service money ; and when waggons were tra-
velling about the 'Northern Counties loaded with
money to pay this host, was it nothing to have the
disposal of it—was it to be supposed that all this
money passed through certain hands without some
of it sticking to their fingers? The House should
also consider the vast source of patronage it created.j
and'hoW that patronage alight be ;lads I

available almost on the eve of a general election..
These spies had endeavoured r-n various occasions to
induce unhappy men who had been arrested to make
allegations against the highest and best of characters :
he instanced die name of the Member for Bedford,
• (Mr. Whitbread), and himself, in comparison, he
would allow, a very humble character. They, how.
ever, from their station in life, might smile at the
malice and baseness of these miscreants ; but persons
who were not so happily situated, and who I:ved
fortunately in disturbed neighbourhoods, were liable
to be exposed to the most dreadful injustice, and free
qnently to ruin. These spies were the a. tise :igents
of the Magistrates, and the House slicalif be guarded
how they enlarged powers which might be used to
suck mischievous and oppressive pusposes.—(A cry
of Quettion, Qmstion, from Me Min;tierial knehes.)
He then mentioned a case in which a poor fellow
had been arrested as one of the rioters, who was in
the employment of a manufacturer of very good
character and large property, .and who had been to
him a most generous and kind master. As soon as
1 possible after he was in their power, the spies ap.
I plied to him with an assurance of " drawing him
throngh," if he would inform them of any thing he
bad ever said against Govern:yent. He answered
them, that he had never heat d any thing of th- kind.
What! said they, did you never hear him say any
thing against the King?—No. Nor against any of '
the Royal Family ? No. At length, after assailreg
1 him in various ways, they offered .1 to draw /tins
through," if he would say that his master told him if
be (the man) would take against the King, he (the
master) would back him; th • poor fellow burst into .
tears at being supposed capable of so base a return to.
the kindness of sogood aMA ster, an d resolutely rel used.
But this sheaved what base arts and means hid been
resorted to ; and it was, in his of inion, too great a
trust to enlarge powers, and trust them in the hands
of a set of men who had a Ire a.ly shewn themselves too
busy in invading the rig.it. and privileges of E
men, their fellow sit frjee ts.—(A loud cry of question,
question, from the Ministerial side of the House ) There
was one of the meetings where it had toe en loudly
trumpetted, that a number of disaffected versrms had
been seized with all their hooks and papers, at a
nightly meeting, from wh'eh seizure wonder-11d dis-
coveries of treason and dierffectien was exp cte ! to ! a
made. This terrible meet'ng, however, turned •-t
to be so far a nightly meeting indeed as h:tviag been
held after thernen lett their work; and their ;tespei ate
batiks and papers were a copy of a petitio: agai st
the Orders in Council, and a list of names which had
been written down, of those who signed the petition ;
which petition, with. the real names, he hid pr e-
sented to the House ; and if the powers had been
then
.granted which are now asked for, the House
would never'have seen that petition, and he should
have been deprived of all the benefit he and the
counts' had derived from its authority both in argu-
ment, and in the number of signatures attached to it.
—There was also another circ'emstance still more
alarming, which was, that these Magistrates, now be.
fore they are armed with those extraordin try powers
to be given by the present Bill, had• not contented
themselies with searching for warlike instruments,
such as pikes aiid others made of iron, but they had
also been keen in their researches after more precious
I metals, such as gold and silver ; they accused partie
cular men of the crime of hoarding, and thereby shew.
ing themselves inimical to the G ,vernment. They
went to a house in search of deserters ; after ransack.
ing the yard, and ail the out-houses, withoUt finding
any thing in the shape of a soldier, they went into
a room hind the tradesman's sh ip, find desired a
certain drawer might be opened. The man drily ob-
served, 4, they could hardly expect to find a deserter
soldier in that drawer." Opened however it must
he, and there appeared about ten pounds in silver,
which this tradesman had collected for the convenience
of change in his business. They seized the money,
however, as a hoarding against the Government :
and when after a hearing before the Maeistretes it
was found to be no crime of which they could legally
take notice, they returned this tradesman £lO ita
Bank-notes instead of the silver lie had been lo long
collecting, or, as they termed it, " hoarding." (A
very loud and general cry of question, question, from
the Ministerial side of the House). Mi. lhoughans
observed, he knew from what catlike .111 r cry pro-
ceeded, but he was glad to think that not eithstand-
ing the indecorum of some hkmbers, he, had rot
stated one word less than be originally meant to do.
Mr. BANK ES spoke at considerablesa
saying
g holi
l e
el g
bethought
n AM;
your of die Bill, and concluded by y
his Noble Friend (Lord Castlereagh)-and his Col.
leagues had been very moderate in the measures uro.
posed, and was afraid they had not gone far enough.
Lord ALTHOKYE bad thought, that the disturs
bances would gradually subside. Either strong mea.
sures were necessary to be taken at once, or else Par.
liament should be kept sitting. Great as the latter
inconvenience was, lie would prefer it to doing any
thing contrary to the Constitution.
Mr. W. BOOTLE believed, that the Learned
Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) had received informa.
I tion, but that it was misrepresentation respecting the
conduct of the Magistrates. Gentlemen in the
Southern Counties might find the duties of Magistrates
I easy ; but they knew little of dip sacrifices and trouble
of those who discharged similar duties in the menu-
at considerable length in
facmturr.insgTdzisptctEs.l4
spoke
vindication of the measure, which, if it had, in his
view, any demerit, it was on the score of its not being
stronger. He then contended that his Learned Friena
(Mr. Brougham) was inconsistent in the arguments
he had adduced; since, in the whole of the examine.
tioti on the Orders in Council, his object had-been,
with all his own witnesses, to spew that there was no
disloyalty or disaffection existing among the menu-
facturers, but merely a want of employment. He
also stated some circumstances relative to the Clia.
ritable Institution for the manufacturing poor, from l
which he withdrew himself, on account of its being I
said that the charity was intended not so much to
relieve sufferers, as to find means of protecting the
Orders in Council. In his Learned Friend he had
expected to fidel an advocate for this measure. He
took this opportunity of passing a warm eulogium on
the conduct of the persons called Methodists, than
whom there were none more loyal or better affected
to the Church as established-. nine more distinguish.
ed for philanthrophy and benevolence.
Mr. BROUGPIAM explained.
The Hip. Mr. LAMBE thought the El t