Star.
London, England, 1812-06-17 00:00:00

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c'epreesed than rranee had been by the operation of
these very Orders in Council.—(Hear, hear, on both
sides of the Hoeft.) From the. French documents them-
selves this fact appeared. The whole internal con-
sumption of Fiance, with her population of $6 mil-
lions, added to het- exports, was only 54, whilst.our
ex pot ts alone were 66 millions. Never.therefore. would
he cease to contend, that the syitem of his late Right
Hon. Friend did not originate as much in wisdom as
in justice. On the other bend, amidst all our strug-
• glee, did not out. Conntry ethibit a picture, not of
• commercial decay, but of increasing prosperity ? Was
it not the picture of a country rising in all the features
of wealth, aid glowing in prosperity ? Could not even •
the diflicultiet which we now complained of be ree,
(erred to the unnatural growth of that prosperityisfi
,a particular year ? With the exception of our tratchiel
to America, had not all the branches of our commerce
gone on in an accumulating ratio ?—(Hear, hear. )—=
Even to the Continent of Europe, notwithstanding-
all the efforts of the great scourge of mankind, had not .
• nur conimerce thriven in the struggle ? Theexports to
Europe in the three years subsequent to the Ordersiol
Council, were superior by six millions to the exports of
the three preceding yews. No country had ever stu-
-cued more than this had done the interests of neutrals,
and certainly every thing in our power had been tried
to preserve the friendship of America. (Hear, hear.)
But the enemy had said, no people should have com-
merce with us. We hid justly retorted on the enemy,
and declared, that no people should have commerce.
with him but through the medium of England. We
hadl therefere, resorted to a strict blockade of all his
ports; and when he issued his Berlin and Milan De-
crees, we had recourse to the Orders in Council, as a
Treasure of just and necessary retaliation. He wished
to say a few words on the subject of licetices, against
. which So much clamour had at various times been
Too& ; and enless the House was disposed to relin-
quish at least four-fifths of the whole trade of the
• sountty, it must give its approbation to that system ;
for-by these we bad for a length of time compelled
France and the other parts of the Continent con-
nected weh, and dependent upon her, to take our
manufactures to a vast amount ; and in doing this we
never infringed on the rights of neutrals, though
be was ready to allow that they could not derive equal
advantege from had, however, been repeatedly
stated 'o' America, that ws were at any time ready
t. eclude our own commerce, if she would make a
t. moron cause with us and keep up a strict blockade
against Frances if she would nct, she was told de-
cidedly that we must rigidly resort to a system of re-
taliation, in order to prevent the enemy from carry-
iug into effect his open and avowed design of ruining
this country. He now felt anxious to call the atten-
tion of the House to the state of the relations between
this country and America, since the period in which
the restrictions had been taken off from the Prince
Regent. 'With respect to the view the present Mini-
sters had of that question, he could only say,
that till within these few days they bad never thought
themselves entitled to act es a Goverment; and when
they came to look at the decree which was lately pub-
lished, though it bore date a twelvementh before, they
could not but entertain doubts whether that decree hid
exec been set aside by the sweeping declaration of the
Duke If Bass um mule since that time. He thenght
it was Idea), desirable that restrictive measures on each
side shoilU be suspended, and an attempt made to try
if France could net be brought to consent that the
outlast mode of carrying on commerce ihouN be re,
acted. He thought with the Hon. and.Learned.Geo-
tiethan who brought forward the motion, that kwould
be wrong to notice any iseitaeive measures which had
been la'ely•adopted by America, rat that could by no
• means; be' productive of benefit, but might tend to
Widen the, breach subsisting between the twoceuntries.
If the plan he proposed should take place, and the
mutual intercourse be restored, it would have the ef-
fect of introducing new connections, which could not
fail to have the most prosperous and beneficial re-'
sults. At all events, he hoped the House would net
at present interpose its judgment between the Crown
and the American Government. He was conscious
nothing had been discovered in the conduct of the
Erecuave Government of this country that showed
hostility to America; and he confidently hoped the
present negociations would be so managedets,tp put
an end to all-differences subsisting between *weep:,
countries. The Vote be would propose to The House
would be, to peseta the Orders of the Day. (An univer.
sal cry of hear, hear, bear; from the Opposition the of the
House.) He confessed he did not understand that
cheer. If the dociiments which were necessary had
been before the House, he should have met the motion
with a direct negative • as it was not so, that would be
the motion with which he should conclude.
:etelr. WHITBREAD said, that in rising to address
the House, he was completely as a loss what words
to make use of, for lie was totally unable to undo'.
stand the meaning of the Noble Lord. He begged
the Noble Lord would say what it was lie meant
and .f he was better undet stood by any one.else, he
(Mr.Whitbread) should confess that be was truly dull
of apprehension. The Noble Lord seemed to wish.
the House to believe that he proposed to do something
conciliatory to America. But . did he mean_ to act
immediately on his proposition ? or was it hiS'iinten.
tion to send out to America, and tell ;ter, that if she
would relax in her late system of the Noneintercouree

induced the! to interfere with the kat,—
GovernmentrCanswer was plain and obyious,—
it was-the conduct of the Executive itself. The state
of the country was so tlarmingo-the cries of the
Petitioners were so truly piercing—that it could no
longer be put off. It would depend on the decision
of the House of Commons, whether you would ha
thousands and thousands not only destitute o 1 bread,
but in a state of absolute despair. If the House deter.
mined to rescind the Orders in Council, there could
ke no doubt but the looms would immediately rani
numerously be set a going, and ships would be in-
'molly freighted. If the Noble Lord's proposition.
be-adopted, not a single loom would be seen to move
--root the sail of one single ship would be unfurled fur
commercial concerns with America, That country.
had till to-night been calumniated as a Government,
i and had never been treated with the respect due to
I an independent power; and it was high time that we
should awake to the real interests which belonged to
Idr commerce and manufactures of the country. He
did hope the Noble Lord and his colleagues, after
having witnessed for so long a time the distressed si-
tuation
of the manufacturers, and after learning from
! the evidence what was the cause of it, would have
come forward to have put an end to such crying evils,
by a determination to suspend the Orders in Council,
with their concomitant mischievous attendants licenses
—and their subordinate supporters—fraud and per-
jury. He had in his hand papers which had been left
in the hand of a bankrupt, who had dealt in these
simulated papers; and the Clerks of that very bank.
rupt had since advertised, that all pergons who were
desirous of obtaining simulated paperkraight be im-
mediately supplied, by them. The questipn was, whe-
ther the Noble Lord would suffer thousands to re-
main without bread. or would go on wish hi§ 4rdem
of simulated papers ;lid licenses? He would ask.the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rose) whether:43e
American Minister, from the first moment -of .the
Orders in Council being mentioned, did not protest
against them—whether that Minister did not warn
him and 'his colleagues, that if they were persisted in,
they would involve the two counties in a war ;
and at last told both the belligerents, that if they
did not relax in their several systems, they could not
be on terms with either of them. France had been
the first to relay, and thence the state of our starv-
ing manufacturers. And besides, that while it was
pretended by Ministers in this country, that they
meant these Orders in Council as a measure of reta-
liation on the enemy, and negociations were carrying
on by means and through the medium of an ambas-
sador, sent expressly for the purpose from this coun-
try, a base and scandalous attempt had been made,
which appeared to have been sanctioned by the per-
son now at the head of the Administration of this
country, to separate the Northern States from their 1
union with the Sotthern.--(4 cry of no, no, from Me
Miniritrial Bench.)—Mr. Whitbread said, it appeared
from Lord Liverpool's letters that this man had been
employed by Government; and he had no doubt but
when the papers were granted which had been called
for and refused, the fact would be proved that such
person had been employed for no friendly or laudable
purposei; This action, he said, had given into the
hands of the Am-skim Government the most power-
ful engine of war that could be devised. The Noble
Lord had said that the cause of the distress of the
manufacturers was owing to their having made too .
many goods on speculation. He believed the Noble
, Lord bad never read the evidence ; for if he had, he 1
would have found no such information there :—he
must have derived it from some other source, which
was not to be depended on. The evidence told the
direct contrary, and shewed that they had manufac- ,
tured, not front speculation, but to keep the men who ;
had been long in their employ from actually starving.
The Noble Lord, however, had put it on a different'
footing, and was for waiting till we could send a
proposition to America for the acceptance of that
Government ; while the manufacturing interests were
at this moment waiting in breathless expectation, to
know whether they were to be doomed to starve or I
not. He begged the House would not be caught by
the delusion. but by their decision prevent the manu-
facturers from being driven to profound and absolute I
despair.
Mr. PONSONBY said, he saw no reason for any
such proposition as that mentioned by Lord Castle.'
reagh. The American Minister had distinctly and
plainly stated to our Ambassador there, that as soon
as the Orders in. Council were rescinded, that instant
the Non•lntercourse Act would cease. The 'Noble
Lord's proposal could therefore do no good ; and no-
thing but an express revocation of the Orders in Count
cil could be availing and effectual. .--
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, that if we concede ot
all, we should do it so that we could claim the pro-
raiie of the American Government. We ought to
give the manufacturers security. Asking Amer*
what she will do, 'when she has already declared what
she will do, seemed to be giving her a hint she might
recede from what site had promised. We but. micnyJ
an opportunity of acting decisively one lesrar..44 I
other, and'doret let us, by steering a middle
lose the advantage we might derive from actinc72,
openness and candour. He hoped we should alweye
endeavour to cultivate the friendship of America ;.is
he thought we should he more likely to obtain it,4
revoking the Orders in Council,. than by any other

Act, this country would suspend, or revoke, pr alSars-
don, rir do what with the Orders in, Council 1
he mean to give any relief to the starving manufac-
turers and ruined capitalists, or did he mean .tri
ad-
vise his Royal Highness the Prince Regent to with-
draw the Orders in Council till this qunstion should
be determined ? .
Lord CASTLEREAGH, s;," he

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means we could pursise.
Mr. CANNING entertained the same opinion of
the Orders in Council as he had originally done, that
they were a justifiable measure of retaliation on the
enemy: but that retaliation he always considered as of
a prilitical and pot a commercial nature. It was be-
coming thecharacterofthisccuntry toexert its strength
defence of its • and —.sat • but it w 7

„in exp.,. , said, in ice just necessary rights; . .Jas
meant as he had stated, that a .proposition should. be also becoming its character to exercise its rights, so as
Wade to the American Government to suspend im• to kterwithiu the rules of strict justice to others. He
rtiedlately the Orders in Council, on condition that did not approve, therefore, of converting a measure
they wculd su,petul their Non-intercourse Act ; and of political retaliation into a commercial monopoly
that in the interval both parties should use their en- for ourselves ;* but he was. hay that such a prin. ,
deavours to prevail on llonaparte to restore the rules ciple had been disclaimed. Whether it was right
Of comnperce to their ancient. customary limits , or not to permit this inquiry to be commenced, he
Mr. Will 11311tEski) said, if this proposition veal would mot now consider; but he felt hirnself under
to be sent out to America, and it was expected that some difficulty, for he had always considered this as a
the House and the Country should wait till they re- great political question, though certainly connected
ceivcd an anstrer, it was the greatest delusizin that with commerce, which no British statesman ought to
had ever been attempted. Cupid he, after what rid lose sight of ; and yet by consenting, tovit oft the
passed, suppose the House of Cornmsnw K ould wave ground of commercial pressure, the gut num Was pre-
she question any longer. The manufac:tfers had de- judged. There were in truth,'great political parties
elbed they could. ttOt,wait longer. Tilt. general and interested in this question—Amenca, Great
:deeply distressed state of the country loudly declared and France; and yet, 'from our mode of trying the
it ought not ail longer to be pQstpope4,. What 124 .S4estioila we- Pry we,'.
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