Star.
London, England, 1823-03-26 00:00:00

URROPS 0%

he had the
Secretary of
its place, he
question to
ktitled to re-
madness of
considerable
stifiable war,
ntentions of
it, he con-
lent and the
!lative situa-
d to foreign
ask the Right
er there wag
this countrl
ther directly
of France to
the liourbod

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upon it must
s which were
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those tleatles
ned a stipule,
the Crown!'
• or any of

farbay, the Allied.ftwqrs were. to put themselves
into action to resist it with their united forces.--
(Hear, hear).—He likewise believed, that in case of a
revolution arising in France from any other cause,
and being directed by soy other persons, a stipula-
tion in another of the treaties made it incumbent
upon the Allies, or at least upon Prussia, Russia,
Austria, and England, which were bound by sepa-
rate.treaties with each other, to meet together, and
to consult in common what measures it might be
prudent for them to take in consequence—(Hear,
hear).—Perhaps in the mass of treaties there might
be other stipulations relating to this subject; but
taken as he was thus unexpectedly, he must observe,
that the stipulations to which he had just alluded
were the only stipulations which suggested themselves
tm the instant to his recollection—(Hear, hear).

Lord J. RUSSELL admitted that, after the state-
:tient which the Right Hon. Gentleman had just made,
he should not be justified in pressing upon him at that
time for further explanation. He must, however, ex-
press a hope, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would
duly consider the various treaties to which he had just
referred, in order that he might explain to the House
as soon as possible the situation which the country
occupied at present in relation to foreign Powers. He
said thk, because he was sure that the Right lion.
Gentleman must be aware that the unprincipled in-
vasion of Spain by France might in a short time to-
tally alter our present situation with the latter Power
—( Loud cries of Hear, from the Opposition. benches).
Besides it was incumbent on the Minister of this
country—after having expended a thousand millions
to place the Bourbons on thethrone of France, in the
fond hopes of obtaining from them a firmer security
for the continuance of peace and tranquillity in Eu-
rope than could be obtained from any other family—
( Load cheers acrain from the Opposition benches)—it
was incumbent,'he repeated, upon them, to clear them-
sdves even from the suspicion of being bound by any
sipulation to expend even, a single shilling in future
behalf of so worthless and imbecile a family.—
(;reat cheering.)
Mr. CANNING contended that the present was an
inc.mvrnient time to enter into such an argument as
eie Noble Lord had just started. He had understood
tire Noble Lord to put a question to him upon a mat-
ter of fact; and he had given the Noble Lord an
.auaer on the point, which, as far as his memory
served, he believed to be correct. Taken as he was,
upon the sudden, he would not pretend to allirm that
hemight not have omitted some material stipulations.
The Noble Lord had interrogated him as to a matter
of fact: he had given the Noble Lord the best answer
it his power; and the return the Noble Lord bad
made him far it was to found upon it a political argu-
ment of no mean or trilling importance. He must
observe, that young as he was in his present olfice, no
conduct was more calculated to discourage him from
answering questions from that (the Opposition) bide
of the l louse—a courtesy which he was always de-
sil oas of extending to it—than the conduct which the
Noble Lord had just pursued, in founding au argu-
ment on the answer which he had just received,.
(Cries or Hear, from the Ministerial Benches).
LaRIJOHN -RUSSELL complained that the Right
Hon. Gentleman had completely misunderstood the
drift of his last observations. He had not founded
any argument upon the answer of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, he had merely intended to forewarn him
of the line of argument which it was probable would
be pursued when the late negotiations at Verona
and elsewhere should be brought before the ;onside,'
ration of the House.

Sir RORERT WILSON wished to put the Right
lion. Gentleman opposite in possession of a fact, with
which he believed that few Gentlemen at the present
moment weie acquainted. When the treaty of Cho,
talon was pined upon the table, he had put a similar
question to the Noble Lord. who then tilled the Right
llon.Gentleman's situation that his Noble Friend had
just put to the Right Honourable Gentleman himself.
He had then received from the Noble Lord to whom
Leh.td alluded, a distinct and positive answer, that
this country was not bound by any guarantee to se-
cure the Clown of France to the Bourbon family--
(Hent, hear).—lie therefore hoped, that the Right
lion. Gentleman would not gratuitously take upon
himself that odi,nis responsibility to which his Noble
predecessor had never dared to render himself liable.

Mr. CANNING said, that he had already stated,
that, by the existing treaties, a Revolution produced
in France in favour of the late Emperor Napoleon or
any his family was a cams federis, which called
um the Allied Powers to take np antis to put it
down. In case of any other Revolution excited
either by means or in favour of any other individuals,
there was no other stipulation than this—that the
Allied Powers should assemble to concert and con-
sult what measures they ought to take. It WAS int-
risible either for him of any
,other Member to uitg
*bat might be the result of such deliberations—.
(Hear).—The subject then dropped.

CIVIL LlsT.
Mr. LENNARD rcse to make his motion for in-
fdemation with respect to the third class of the Civil,
lac This he intended as preparatory to a motion!
kettle reduction of this class of the Civil List; and
he could not anticipate any objection to his motion.
The House was entitled to the accounts of the savings
pa this branch of the public expenditure ; for the
*Me Marquis whom the Right Hon. Gentleman
had succeeded, had granted voluminous accounts of
t*etapen.ses of Foreign Ministers, and when that was
duce last year to such an extent, he saw no reason
ithl his more limited motion should be refused. He
thould be sorry if the Right Hon. Secretary should
deprive the House of these documents. If report
e true, some reduction had been made in that ex-
kavitgaut mission to the Swiss Cantons. If that was
12: he thought it a proof of the necessity of the
:"aPers which he wanted to he produced. He must
" what reductions had been made in this branch
lithe Civil List, before he could siove for Any other
faction in it. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by
14" las an Address to the Crown for " a Return of
aKII decrease of the expense in the third class of the
1141 LA since the Sid of May, l on, stating whether
rich decrease bad been occasioned by any diminu-
.l," Di the number of persons employed, by the alters:
'l' ,
4101 the rank of persons so employed or otherwise.
ti 14. CANNING.—It the object of the' Hon. Gen-
...7'4111/m Li) learn whether the expenses of the
r'dciass of die Civil List had been kept within the
o
ands criittctibed by law; it was' already prot'ided
1 uale lAw, that the savings, it any, should be

carried to the Consolidated Fund, an account of,
which. Was annually laid before Pskamint. If *al
wished to know the amount of any particular saving,.!
he (Mr. Canning) could only observe, that the saving
could not be made until the arrangement had been
carried into effect. He admitted the right of the
House to know the appointments by the Crown, and
the expenditure arising from those appointments ; but
he did not think it would be exercising a wise discri-
niination to inquire into changes which were about to
take place. Ile had no difficulty in mentioning, as
a matter of information, that a change was about to
take place in two or three of the foreign missions :
that the mission to the Swiss Cantons would become
vacant, and that the person appointed to succeed the
present Minister would only have half the character,
and consequently reduced allowances ; whether re-
duced in the same proportion, he could not now say.
He gave the Hon. Gentleman the fact, and he might
draw from it his own arguments and conclusions. If
blame or corruption were charged, unquestionably
upon a case stated, it might be very fit for Parlia-
nient to require information; but where, as in the
present instance, there had been an exercise of eco-
nomy on the part of the Crown, the interposition of
the House seemed worse than useless. If the Hon.
Gentleman had imputed blame, he (Mr. Canning)
should have resisted the production of the Return,
unless a grave Parliamentary case had been made
out ; but be could oppose it with the better grace, and
with the less suspicion, when the information sought
would redound to the credit of Ministers. Even in
the best and most jealous times, it had not been the
course thus to interfere with the management of the
Crown in this particular, but merely in cases where
special animadversion was necessary. As far as a
saving had been made, he repeated that it would be
seen by tile annual accounts, and he hoped that the
House would be of opiniopt that in resisting the motion
he resisted no proper or reasonable information.
Lord J. RUSSELL thought this a most extraor-
dinary opposition on the part of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman. No blame had been imputed to Ministers,
when Lord Londonderry granted a similar Return
last year. He was glad to hear that this Embassy to
Switzerland was to be reduced one half. True it was,
that the motion with this object last year had been
supported by what was called a bad division—that
is to say, the minority was very small compared with
the majority. Nevertheless, it was now fol,tpd that
such a reduction could be effected, and it showed
that, notwithstanding "a bad division," the minority
might sometimes be in the right—(Hear, hear).
Mr. HUME argued that if the motion were refused
the Opposition side of the House could not be pre-
pared for a debate. The question was one of great
importance, and he really believed that the Right
Hon. Gentleman was not aware of the enormous sums
the people of England paid annually for foreign mis-
sions. If Government had a sincere disposition to
economise, they would not refuse the Return. From
the former Return it appeared that
In 1818 the whole expense was X 257,020
tell - . - - 323,000

taw
1821 . - - 298,457
Although the papers were not yet printed, it might
be found that upwards of 1300,000 had been charged
upon the Raw :account for the year . lie en-
pealed to the c4adour ancliairness of the Right lion.
Gentleman not to refuse the return required. ,
Mr. HVSKISSON would state an authority against
the production of the Return, quite a, high, even in
these times, as that of the Hon. Member for Aber-
dreo.—he meant Mr. Fox ; who had laid it down 4$
a principle, that the House ought not to inquire into''
the particulars of the Civil List, unless there were
reasons to know that it was in debt. While the Crown
confined the expense of foreign missions within the
sum limited by law, the House of Commons had
hitherto, and he thought wisely, abstained from in-
vestigating the particular application of the money.
The Hon. Member for Aberdeen seemed to confound
two things quite distinct, viz.—the amount of the
establishment of the third class of the Civil List, and
the contingent and extraordinary expenditure, not in
the shape of salaries or allowances, which came an-
nually as a grant before the House. The House
might, were it necessary, call for an account of the
particulars of these contingent bills, drawn by foreign
Ministers. The limit in this country was I:226,000 :
but if this sum were compared with the expenditure
for the same purpose in France, it would be found that
it considerably exceeded the charge in this kingdom.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT expressed his gratifica.
tion at hearing the authority of the late Mr. Fox quoted
on the other side; there was much reason to regret and
to repent that it had not been followed many years
ago. The Devil, it had been observed, could quote
Scripture to his purpose; and the Right [lon. Gentle-
man could quote the authority of Mr. Fox, whenever
it made in his favour. In this instance, however, he
had grossly misrepresented it, for the utmost Mr Fox
had ever said upon the Civil List was, that Parliament
would unwillingly bring under its review any expenses
of the Royal Family, but he had no reference to the
third branch of the Civil List. At a time like the
present, when the country was distracted between pro-
bable disturbance from its relations abroad, and the
pressure of intolerable burdens at home—surely, at
such a time, it was especially the duty of Parliament
to inquire into every department of expenditure, and,
if possible, to effect reduction in every department.
"lad what objection could be made to furnishing the
accounts in question? What objection could the
Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite set up? The Hon.
Baronet sat down by declaring that he knew of no
motion, at the present moment, more likely to be ser-
vieeable, or more fit to be complied with.
Mr. LgNNARI), in reply, said, that the same re-
turn would hare contented him which had been given
last year; but as he saw no more chance of obtaining
that account than the account he was moving for, lie
should feel it his duty to take the sense of the House
upon his present motion.
The House then divided, when the numbers were..—
For the Motion - 2* .

Against It - • - 50
Majority - •
•
DISMISSAL 01 COLONSI. HOMIL
Mr. BENNET rose for the purpose‘of mbVing fbr
certain Papers connected with the dismi.sal of etlo-
nel Home from the service of the British Army.—
Colonel Home was not an obscdre mai' in the Pettit).
sular war, in Germany, or on 'the 'Continent.. He had
been in all the great actions in the Peninsula and at
Waterloo ire kept the post. of HugnettiOn!., calla

emphatically the key of the position of that day, and
'received for his gallantry thethaeks of the lArike.of
-.Wellington. Upon the conCltision of the first peace,
-in 1814, Colonel Home entered into a mining eon-
,cern at Dudley, in Worcestershire, carried on under
'the firm of Salisbury and Co. and out of that con-
nexion aroe the circumstances which were -now to
come before the House. There were six partners in!
the adventure; and four of them were so convinced
of the ill course their trade was taking, that they
agreed that it would be better to stop the works al-
together
than to continue carrying them on upon the
principle cn which they had so far been conducted.
Colonel Home now became anxious to quit a specu-
lation so ruinous, but the partners would not release
him from his responsibility, though be offered to re-
linquish half his property'. So circumstanced, and
seeing little chance ofextricating himselffroin a losing
trade, Col. Home took the opinions of several emi-
nent lawyers; and was advised so have bills drawn
upon him to a very large amount, accepting those
bills in the name of the firm, and so compelling his
partners, by these draughts upon them, to a settlement.
One of these bills was presented for payment; and
then a placard was stuck up in the streets, toll of most gross and infamous falsehoods, and he wrote
to a friend, stating that the parties were liars, and
that he was ready to demand the satisfaction due'to
an Officer and a Gentleman. This came to the ears
of his brother Officers, and they determined on the in-
vestigation of the whole affair. A Court of Inquiry
was then appointed by the Commander-in-Chief to
investigate the concern in which he was involved with
the firm of Salisbury and Co. -The Court met, and
came to resolutions for which there was not a shadow
of foundation. They first foand Colonel Home a
partner in the firm of Salisbury and Co. but they had
no evidence when he became a partner, or that he
was one at all. The next was, that Colonel Home
had given his assent to an arrangement of-the con-
cei is by his partners. In this there was not a word
of truth; for he had only given his assent to one spe•
citic purchase, but not to any general arrangement.
The next resolution was, that bills were drawn by
Colonel Ho.-ne's brother, though the terms of the
partnership forbade him to do so. That he denied ;
and Colonel Home, besides, affirms lord swears, that
he never saw the terms or articles of the partner-
ship, nor had any one ever said that he did see them.
The Duke of Gloucester thought, that Colonel Home's
conduct should be inquired into by a General Court
Martial, unless he sent in his resignation. The-whole
of the charges were submitted to the Judge Advnviltts
who thought the matter was not one for trial by al
Court Martial, without- exposing Colonel Home to
injustice, and therefore a Court Of Inquiry was much
better than the formal one of a Court Martial, Which
was governed by evidence solely. Another charge
against Colonel Home was, that he asked the Qua-.
ter-Master of the regiment to pass as Colonel Home
to a Mr. Wilmington, who served on him an injunction
from the Court of Chancery. The Quarter-Master de-
nied that he had requested hint to do so, or that he
passed for Colonel Home, thenelt Wianington said he
did do so: he was also contradicted by Colonel H:s
servant, who was with the Quarter-blaster at the time.
—A Court of Inquiry was instituted, which came to
the notable resolutions he had mentioned, 'and Colo-
nel Home was allowed, made*. those resolutions, to
sell out, at the regulatioroprice of 4.4.499, with the
loss of his company. In bringing this question for-
ward, his great object was to raise up in some degree
the character of an injured man. Though he could
not give him back the commission he had lost, or the
bonnets which had been torn from him, yet he hoped
Ire would be able to set up his character, wounded*
it had been by this accusation, in of opinion of his;
ancient military friends. The. Hon. Member coin-'
eluded by moving for " Copies of the Minutes of a
Court of Inquiry, and of all documents laid before it,
in the matter of Lieutenant-Colonel Home; late of the
Sd Foot Guards, in the year PUB."
Lord PALMERSTON opposed the motion, on the
ground that the proceedingi of a Court of Inquiry
were of a confidential nature, the minutes being taken
by order of the Commander.in-Chiel. He thought
no case had been made %it for so strange and un-
usual a motion. Ile did not blame ColOnel Home
for wishing to get out of a losing concern ; bug he
blamed him for the means he employed, which were
calculated to have the remaining capital of the firm
answerable fur losses from which he wished to exempt
himself. He should have inquired before he entered
into the concern. But, instead of that, he got his
brother to draw bills, which he accepted ; these bills
were sent among umbrella-makers, cloth-makers,
and others, and brought into the market against the
firm. There could he no doubt that Colonel Home
knew the nature of the message brought by Win-
nington, who served him with the Injunction. Hs
could not but believe, that if Quartermaster Weston
had not wished to pass for Colonel Home, he would
have said—" Here must be some mistake, 1 am
not Colonel Home," or something of that sort.—
Onessight judge a little of the character of an indi-
vidual Iron, the manner in which he set about .de-
fending himself. A persop wholly free from reproach
would hardly plead so directly to a charge as to post
bills on dead walk and in bye-corners. He held
in his hand one of the counter placards, in which
Colonel Home, Lieetersant-Colonel of the guards, had
replied to the charges posted .in other bills, but not
printed perhaps in quite so large a letter.—[Here the
Noble Lord produced one of the placards.;]—At first
the Commander-in-Chief had intended to bring Col.
Horne to a Court Martial, bat such a proceeding it
was thought would so interfere with other actions that
were pending, that it could not be adopted with jus-
tice to others. ibis opinion had been given by the
Judge Advocate, and it was borne out by the result.
Twice Colonel Home had applied to Courts of
Justice, with a view .of commenting proceedings,
founded on the minutes of the Court of Inquiry;
but the Chief Justices Abbott and Dallas had de-
cided
that they could not order the production
'of the minutes of a Military Court of Inquiry.
The Noble Lord proceeded to sires- that Courts of
Inquiry neje of no recent date. It had been com-
mon to have recourse. to them from the middle of the
last century, and be believed they had been common
at ad earlier period.' Chief Justice Abbott had de-
'scribed' a Court of Inquiry to be differeut from a
Couto of Justice ; but he conceived it to be that which
his gajeurwo aiwupetsia to appoitu, and he held it
to be a y Cry gracious:lnt/de-of dealing with an officer,
rohosk-cOuduct had bora called in question,. to sobmit
. , -

:

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.s._ _

. .
•
the care to the 'cOnsiclersifion off' his birithei•
before. heAvaisikinsfer442r4taht When the
If.n. gentleman fuunied that the decision of a Court
of Inquiry was fiMil, he was- quite mistaken: He
thought, upon the whole, that there were ample
grounds for ternoving,Colonel Home from hii cot*.
'nand, as he had been removqd. He had not beed
dismissetJ the service, btlt was :Wowed to sell the
whole of his commissions. lite Court of Inquiry, it
was to be remembered, had sat three times. Colonel
Home complained that at its first sitting he hid noe
been allowed to examine witnesses, as lie could have
wishes, which he thought had operated materially
against him. The Court, upon this, re•assembled, to
afford hint an opportunity of supplying anything
which he wished to offer. Colonel Home, of course
availed himself I,f this opportunity—no such thing;
having lemon precluded from examining witnesses, as
he had proposed to do berme, be declined appearing
before the Court again. Ile (Lord Palmerston) trusted
the House would agree with him in thinking that no
•case had been made out, to justify an interference
with the at.' mitred prerogative of the Crown:
Mr. BENNO' replied, and stated that Colonel
Home was most anxious to be tiled by a Court-Mar.;
tial. The motion was then negatived without a division.

NF.I.:TOUNDT.AND.
Mr. WILNIOT moved for leave to bring in a Bill
to Amend the Laws in Newfoundland. It was his
intention to have the Bill printed, and with the per-
mission of the House, to take the debate on the second
reading. The Bill hhd three general objects—first,
the Amendment of the Laws respecting.the Fisheries;
second; the Improvement of the Calms of Justice;
and last, the institution of a Local Power to make
Bye Laws under certain circumstances. •

Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected to the principle
of two independent Judicatures in the island, and
its being optional to the inhabitants to chuse which
they pleased.
Dr. LUSHINGTON objected to the principle of
two independent .ludicatures.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR would rejoice in any mea-
sure that would confel any benefit on Newfoundland:
All the mischief had arisen from the last treaty with
America, by which the trade from Newfoundland
had been rained. The English merchants were=com-
pletely undersold in the foreign markets. • -
_ _

Mr. HUME said no alteration should be made iii
the laws of Newfoundland, till more inforglation
had been afforded to the House.

Air. TULK stated the trade of the colony 'to be
completely ruined.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, did
not think that the treaty with America had, been at
all prejudicial to the trade of Newfoundland& The
United Stateg conceded some of the privileges secured
to them by the treaty of 1788, and this country in
return allowed them to dry their fish on a rertaia
part of the coast of Newfoundland. Of that the Ame,
ricans had availed themselves to a very limited ex.
tent. The Bill appeared to him to be well adapted
to answer its end.