Star.
London, England, 1812-05-28 00:00:00

P4RLMMENTARr PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 27.
Their Lordships met a little after three o'clock. Immediately
after prayers, the Scotch Local Militia Bill, the Offices Embez.
clement Security Bill, and the False Pretences Act Extension
33111. went severally through a Committee, and were reported,
without amendment.

The Earl of EGLINOTON presented a Petition from Dunferm-
line against the monopoly of the East-India Company.—Ordered
I lie on the table.

Mr. V; ii.sost (at the head of a deputation from the Commons)
Irought up the Clandestine Marriage Bill, which was read a
first time.

YEOMAN OF THE BLACK ROD,
Earl Gaosvensitt suggested the propriety of presenting an
,ddress to his Royal flizhneu the Prince Regent, on the pro-
It ty of suspending the appointment of a Yeoman of the Black
od, until the perquisites of :hat office had been ascertained and
salary settled,
After; a short conversation between Earls Oansvision and
;ATILURST, the Loan CHANCELLOR, Lords WALSIN CHAN!,
IsSLYN, and LaunzanALL, the question was postponed till
-1, arrow (this day), and their Lordships were ordered to be
immoned.
PR • ITIO/4n ON THE DISTRESSED STATE OF TRADE.
The House Then went into a Committee for the examination
w.tnesses.

Mr. Oakey, principally connected with the Salt Trade at Li-
erpool ; Mr. 7 hompson, a Cumrnission Merchant at the same
ilace ; aud,Measrs. Philipps, Waite, and Wiggins, Manchester
danufacturers were called in and examined.
The House, howeyrr, resumed for a short time, during which
to last witness was Brdered to withdraw.

At seven o'clock the House adjourned, with an understand-
ig that the Committee was to sit again at two o'clock to-mor-
lw (this day).

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The Report on the Irish Roads Bill was taken into farther
m-ideration, and the B:U ordered to be read a third time to-
LO/TOW.
'1 be County Bridges Bill went through a Committee, the re.
'cot on wh,ch was ordered to be received to-morrow.
A Message from the Lords announced their assent to several
livate Bills.
On he Order of the Day, the House went into a Committee
tl.e tly W etch Bill. ahe Report was received, and the
ill olden d to be taker. into further consideration on Monday
:might, and to be printed as now amended.
'1 hr Bill for malting a Provision for Mr. Perceval's Family,
vas read a second time, and committed for to-morrow.
Or the motion pf TURTOM, the dropped Orders, rela.
ive a' the Publicans' Bill, and the Committee on the all laying
all on Carriages carrying Manure, were fixed for Wednesday.
CA11101.16 QUIISTION.
Mr. MARTIN gave notice, that on Friday. the
2th of Ju:.e, he would move for the appointment
1 a Committee, to take into consideration Nehether
be Ri man Catholics of Ireland laboured under any,
ind what disabilities; whether it would be proper to
Tmcve those disabilities ; and whether that ought to
.re accompanied with any, and what conditions.—
The Honourable Gentleman observed, that he did
urt intend this motion to interfere or clash with that
)1' which a notice had been given by a Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Canning) for the 11th June, but
only in the event of the intervention of circumstances
al.ch might incapacitate that Right Honourable
Gentleman from bringing his motion forward, by the
Icceptance of that "high office he was so well quali-
rein° fill, and which—
The SPEAKER called the Hon. Gentleman to
•rder, as he was not confining himself to matter re-
evant to his notice.
Mr. MA [Mita sat down, and the notice was entered
iccordittgly.

DICETOIUI.

Mrs STUART WORTLEY gave notice, that
his day se'linight he would move for leave to
wing in a Bill, to enable Justices of the Peace to or
ler parochial relief for persons confined for Deist in
:ounty Gaols.
PETIIIONS UPON TIM pisTRESEFD STATE OP TEAM
. The House, on the motitin of Mr. Rosa, resolved
into a Committee on the Orders in Council.
Mr. Cranstown, a general Merchant and Ship.
owner,. was called and examined by Mr. Ross. He
stated, that there had been very little variation in the
prices of shipping at Liverpool within the last Lw
sears. There was now a considerable trade to the
l3razils, which was capable of improvement: He was
cf opini( n, if the Orders in Council were repealed,
and that neutrals were allowed the advantage of the
can yiag trade to and from France, that the Berlin
and Milan Decrees remained in force, and that Bri.
tish goods were still liable to be seized wherever
found, in pursuance of the French Decrees, the effect
on the British Trade would be by no means advan-
tageous. He had heard that some distress was ex-
perienced by manufacturing towns, and these dis-
tresses, he believed, were attributable to the exclusion
of British goods from the Continent.
On the cross-examination of this witness by Mr.
BROUGHAM, he confessed that he was engaged in the
I..icence Trade. In this trade foreign vessels as well
as foreign seamen, were generally employed. Upon
being asked what description of papers were usually
furnished to such ships ?—he said that vessels going
to Russia had Russian papers, and was proceeding
in his answer, when
Mr. ROSE objected to the question. The witness
having been ordered to withdraw,
Mr. BROUGHAM urged the necesity of having
this question answered, inasmuch as it was of consi-
derable importance to the elucidation of the subject
in which the House was engaged. He did not see
any mischief which could result from the publication
of such information, as it was a matter which could
not be a secret to the French Government, from the
well-known notoriety of the use of false papers in the
Licence Trade ;—any mischief which could be ap-
prehended must have already taken place. If, how-
ever, there was any fault to be found in the publica.
tion of such secrets, the Right Honourable Gentle-
man (Mr. Rose) was himself to blame, in not fore-
going the measures which had rendered it necessary
to press the investigation.
Mr. ROSE retorted upon the Hon. Gentleman
the charge of blame, in having been the' cause of
publishing secrets, which, for the interests of the
country, it was extremely desirable should not have
been divulged. He was aware that much mischief
had already been done by pursuing this investigation;
but he was desirous of preventing the whole mischief
which was to be apprehended from taking place..—
That the question put by the Hon. Gentleman could
be of no material moment to the inquiry which was
goin fa,be was sure the House would admit
and the answer might be of serious
injury wa•valuable son' ce of trade, which the coun.
try swow- possessed, be hoped the Hon. Gentleman
woold not persevere in exacting it.
Mr. MARRYATT, in answer to what had fallen
4 the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Brougham)

observed, that a rumour without the sanction of obi- 1
cial authority, as to what were the practices in car-
rying 04 the present commercial speculations of
British Merchants, would have a very different effect
on the mind of Bonaparte to what the deliberate
answer of a respectable witness at the Bar of that'
House would have. Ile must therefore deprecate )
any question which went to exact an answer that
might tend most distantly to throw any impediments
in the way of trade as it now stcoJ.
Mr. BARING extremely lamented that the pro-
ceedings of the Committee, during the important
investigation in which they had been so long enga-
ged, had been sent out to the world. He was aware
that the most serious mischiefs had already accrued'
to the country from these publications ; and much
mere lamentable effects were to be anticipated, un-
less some speedy measure was adopted to render fur-
ther inquiry and complaint unnecessary. There were
now very few secrets remaining, and these he did
not think worth withholding. He therefore concei-
ved there could be no sound objection to permitting
an answer to be entered on the minutes, the sub-
stance of which was at present a matter of public
notoriety.
Mr. BROUGHAM said he would be satisfied to
put the question generally, to the following effect :
44 Have you furnished foreign vessels with papers
purporting to be papers of the country to which their
cargoes were destined ?"
' Mr. ROSE said, that the answer to this question
would be essentially stating that we were carrying on
trade by means of forged papers. He could not
agree to any question which went in the slightest
manner to excite suspicion in the Government of
France or elsewhere.

Mr. BROUGHAM observed, that the caution of
the Right Hon. Gentleman was unhappily too late,
for it ao happened that there was a circular letter on
the evidence and printed, in which the writer pub-
licly avowed himself as a forger of false papers, and
inclosed samples of his ingenuity of furnishing any
papers which might be required.
Mr. STEPHEN said, the proposal of a man who
professed himself to be a forger, was extremely dif-
ferent to the evidence of a respectable merchant. In
one case it would be a mere matter of assumption ;
while in the other it would be officially authenticated.
To bring the matter to a short issue, however, he
begged to call to the recollection of the House the
arrangement which was made in consequence of the
present state of his Majesty's Government, arising
from the melancholy fate of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man under whose administration the present investi-.
gation had commenced. It would be remembered
that it was announced, if any thing should occur in
the course of the proceedings of the Committee,
while the Administration remained in an unsettled
state, which involved any point of political ten-
dency, that it should not proceed until the Govern-
ment was constituted. .This was the shortest answer
which he could give any such proposition as that
made by the Hon. Gentleman, who would now, he
had no doubt, withdraw his question.
Mr. BROUGHAM immediately withdrew his
question, and the witness was again called in, when
'Mr. Brougham proceeded in his cross.examination.
Several questions were also put to the witness by
Mr. A. BARING, Mr. ROSE, Mr. MARKYATT, and Mr.
STEPHEN, and his examination lasted for four hours
and a quarter.
Mr. Poony, Commission Merchant and Broker, of
Liverpool, was next called in, but was ordered to
withdraw in the beginning of his examination, in
consequence of his stating, in answer to a 'question
from Mr. BARING, that he had been in the Gallery
during part of the examination of witnesses relative
to the Orders in Council, but not during that of the
last witness.

It was contended by Mr. BARING and Mr. TIER-
NEy, that the presence of any witness in the Gallery
was contrary to the arrangement made at the outset,
and laid down generally by the SPEAKER, and there-
fore operated as a bar to the examination of this wit-
ness, who had infringed the order:
It was maintained on the other side, by Mr. RosF,
Mr. STEPHEN, and Mr. MARRYATT, that most of the
witnesses called by the Gentlemen opposite had been
in the Gallery during the examination, but that the
question was never put, as it would appear too pe-
dantic an application of the rule, since they had an
,pportunity of reading the printed minutes of evi.
deuce, which gave them all the information they
could have in the Gallery.
After some conversation, in which Mr. BARING-
TON (Chairman of the Committee) and Mr. HwuE
partic:pated, in addition to the Hon. Members already
:mentioned, the SPEAKER gave it as his opinion, that
the sense of the Committee should decide the appli.
cation of the rule, Mr. TIERNEY and • Mr. BARING
withdrew their opposition, the question was expunged,
mod the witness being again called in, Mr. ROSE pro_
cceded in Lis examination.

This witness's evidence being concluded, the House
adjourned at a quarter before eleven o'clock, till to-
morrow (this day).

P.
' Their
after pn
slement
33d1. we
without
The
line aga
to lie or
M r. 1
brought
first rim
Earl
fiddreio
prh ty c
kod, ur
the gala'
Aftet
PAT I/V
ROSSLY
tO—is ore
sunimol
The 1
of w•tnt
Mr.
verpool
• Place;
7vlanuf:
The
the last
Au SI
ins tha
row (tt
The
con-ide
rnorrov
'll he
port of
A N
private
On
on the
Btll on
se mug
'a as re
Or
_ tiVe le
011 01
Mr
12th
ad a
the li
and
remt
be ac
The
tit
of wf
Gent
only
wh'cl
, Gent
acct.'
feeft,
'Fl]
ceder
kvan
• Mr
• ccor
Mr
this 4
bring
der p
Count
PCII
Th
into a
Mr
owner
stated
prices
years.
13razi
cf opi
and ti
can yi
and It
tish g
found
on the
taro,
peter
trawl
of 13i i
On
• Buoy,
as for
being
Aunts
to Ru
in his
Mr
bavin,
Mr
this q
derab
in wh
any n
of suc
not lr
well-1
Liter
prehe
ever,
tion c
loan
going
to pro
MI
the ;I
publi
count
been
had
but h
whirl
That
be of
loin
. • tyy
9,4 w 9411
tom
• 9
• •