Star.
London, England, 1822-03-02 00:00:00

rte.
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J

move for"

*tending the Redemption
A-Silniaii`ex ' Thuroday

the latiev.r._ ;and that on
would move for Returns of the Expenses of the Post.Oillee
England, Ireland, and Scotland.
Mr. SYKES, seeing the Honourable Secretary to the
awry in his place, wished to put a question to him, respecting
intentions of Government as to continuing the Bounties
the Greenland Whale Fishery. Ibis law by which these a._
tiel latre telt allowed would expire in 1823, and be wished to
know whether Government intended to renew it ? Government
had allowed large bounties to the South Sea Fishery, and be
hoped that the Greenland Fishery would be put upon the mine
footing, se that no undue preference might be given to one
above the other.
Dlr. LUSHINGTON replied, that Government had not yet
decided upon the coarse which they meant to take, and that the
whole matter was now undergoing an investigation before the
Boird of Trade.
Mr. BF,N NET moved for Returns of the numbs: of Con-
‘lets transported from the United Kingdom, from the sth Ja-
nuary, 1815, to the sth January, 1822, distinguishing their ages,
and the terms of their sentences.—Ordered.
Mr. II U .)1E moved for Returns of the gross and net Reee-
Aim of the United Kingdom, up to the sth of January, 1822,,
distinguishing the Revenue of England and Wales, Ireland
and Scotland, the expense of the management in each coun-
try, the rate per cent. at which it was collected, and the
amount of the whole.
Mr. II I:31E also moved for Returns Of Sums expended for
the Wear and Tear of the Navy, from 18:5 to 1821, distin.
guisbing the sums laid out in ordinary repairs from those laid
out for the building of ships. Also for the sums expended under
the Appropriation Act of 1817, arranged under the several heads.
Sir JOHN OSBORNE said there was no objection to the
production of these papers.—Ordered.
Lord A. HA DU LTON presented a Petition from the Meer -
=Trades of Kirkcudbright, in Scotland, praying for sothe
In the Scotch Burghs.—Laid on the table.
Sir GEORGE CLERK brought hp* Return of the num-
ber of Persons receiving Halfpay Who were in Holy Orders.—
Laid en the table.
Mr. WILMOT brought In a Bill for regulating the mode of
Imintaining Clergymen in Upper Canada.
Upon the question that it be read a -first time,
Dlr. BENNET wisbeiltra know whether it was true that, by
this Bill, a portion of the nelip-divided land was assigned to the
Church by way of convenes/Aka for tithes?
Mr. WILMOT said, Bit? usual praftke of assigning one-
seventh part of any district for the support of the Church bad
been observed, and the present Bill was only to prevent diiputes
as to the claim which the Clergy bad to this land. •
Sir ISAAC COFFIN said, it was always customary to
assign one-seventh proportion.—The Bill was read. I first time.
Mr.W. SMY'f H said that he had, with the permission of the
Noble Marquis (Londonderry), last year moved for a variety of
Returns respecting the measures which were now 'in progress
for the suppressien of the Slave Trade • particularly for such
communications as bad passed '
between his Majesty's Govern-
ment and any foreign Government en the Subject ; and, lastly,
with respect to what was called the Mixed Commission at the
liavannah. Ile moved alai, with the permission of the Noble
Secretary, for similar Returns since that period up to which the
former Return was made—namely, the 6th of February. The
lion. Gentleman then put. in a motion to the above effect,whieh
was agreed to.
' Colonel DAVIES moved for a Return of all Officers of the
Army dismissed from the Service without trial by Court Mar-
tial since the year 1793, specifying the number of each rank.
—Ordered.
Mr. COURTEN AY gave notice that, on Tuesday, he would
muse for the revival of the Committee which sat last year on
dal Prison Laws

H E!: HY HUNT.

Mr. WARRE ruse to present a Petition from the
Inhabitants of Taunton, in Sumersetshire, expressing
their concern at the sufferings which Mr. Hunt wad'
compelled to endure in lkhester Jail. Having upon
a former night given his opinion upon the treatment
observed towards Mr. Hunt, he would only state that
the assertions which he then -made were confirmed by
the present Petition; and he was sorry that an Hon. Ba-
ronet., Member for Sumersetshire (Sir T. Lethbridge),
was not in his place, as it would speak conviction to
him. It was certainly true that Mr. Hunt was per-
mitted to see his physician ; but as this was the only
person permitted to see him, he (Mr. Warre) con-
tended that his imprisonment amounted to solitary
confinement. The Hon. Member concluded by say-
ing, that, to his own knowledge, several of the indi-
viduals who signed this Petition were highly respect-
able.—The Petition was ordered to lie upon the table,
and be printed.
Mr. HOBHOUSE said, he was entrusted with a
similar Petition from the town of Blackburn, in Lan-
cashire. This Petition was desewing the serious con-
sideration of Parliament, and was signed by upwards
of 5000 persons. The Petition complained of the
treatment to which Mr. Hunt was subjected in Il-
chester Jail, and concluded by calling upon the
House to interfere, and prevent any aggravation of
the sentence passed upon Mr. Hunt in a Court of
Law. The Petitioners stated, that Mr. Hunt's case
had a peculiar claim to the consideration of this
House, and in this opinion he (Mr. Hobhouse) en-
tirely agreed. But perhaps that claim would be re-
jected, as Mr. Hunt did not belong to that class of
men, which an Hon. Baronet last night described as
the " legitimate" people of England—(Hear, hear).
He (Mr. Hobhouse) did not know what the Hon. Ba-
ronet meant by the word " legitimate," and if the
lion. Baronet had drawn a distinction betvieen the
well and ill-dressed people, he would be more intel-
ligible. He (Mr. Hobhouse) would, however, con-
rend against the position, that one class of men were
more entitled to attention than another. He thought
all alike entitled to redress, and, for his part, he
would he always ready to give the benefit of his
humble exertions to any one who bad a complaint to
make—(Hear, hear).—Tbe Hon. Member then pro-
ceeded to state some details of the treatment of Mr.
Hunt, with which the Public are already familiar.—
He contended that Mr. Hunt's was a case of novel
hardship. It was not to be borne that any set of
men should take it on themselves to alter and aggra-
vate the sentence passed upon Mr. Hunt. The Jailer,
Bridle, was detained in his situation for 108 days,
after he was declared unfit for the office. This state-
ment
was borne out by the Report of the Commis-
sioners of Inquiry. The fact was, that Mr. Hunt was
then suffering solitary confinement—and sobe-would
call it, for it was in every sense equivalent to solitary
confinement. He could not forbear paying his tri-
bute of approbation to the industry and zeal and
independence of the Commissioners—and particu-
larly to Mr. Estcourt, who brought to light so much
of the abuse which existed in Ilchester Jail. Mr.
Hunt was entitled to credit, for it was by his instru-
mentality that the investigation was made, and the
bad practices of the prison exposed. It appeared,
that before that, the Jailer was not restrubied by the.
Surgeon, nor the Surgeon by the Coroner, nor was,
the toroner himself restrained by the Magistrates,—
It appeared, that a weight of ten pounds of iron was
appended to one prisoner, who was afraid to com-
plain. In reading over the Report of the Commis-
sioners, be could not persuade himself that hews not
readpsetlie scandalous. account of. some maesse
net of a tanipbouse in England; indeed, but in some
savage country. lie believed it was worse than Bed-,

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FL-7- . .7111.

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pure river —they . r --- -
dregs filtered through the sewers. The Hon. Baronet
(Mr T. Lethbridge) had said, that hi was sorry Mr.
Hunt was ever confined in Ilchester Jail. So was he
(Mr. Hobhouse), but 'he was glad for the sake of the.
Public—(Hear)—who should regard Mr.. Hunt in
the light of a benefactor—(Keer, hear).,—No matter
what his failing or his conduct be, it could not be
denied but he had rendered a great public service,
in exposing theunheard-of atrocities which were prac•
tised in Witmer Jail. . .
Mr. DICKINSON defended the Magistrates of Se:
mersetshire, and said there was a disposition on their,
part to adept the suggestions of the Commissioners.
Mr. RERNAL supported the Petition.
Mr. W. SMITH thought that the case of Mr. Hunt
was deserving of inquiry. He had been the cause of
a great public gooci. Some nights back, when thei
subject of opening letters to and from Members of
Parliament wi's brought before the House, it was
said no letter beyond a certain weight should be al-
lowed, and that prisoners had other means of making
known their grievances than by letter. He, however,
would contend, that there was no better way to com-
municate their grievances than by_letter. Some Hon.
' Gentlemen thought the exemption from postage was
a personal privilege, but it was not for their own
personal accommodation only. It appeared from the
Report on their table, that a system of irritation was
pursued towards the prisoners, even by the Magis-
trates themselves, or with their knowledge. There
was no better way to prevent these abuses than by
keeping alive those privileges which the House re-
served to every one of its Members for very wise
purposes: He hoped the Petition would be allowed
to lie on the table.
Sir ROBERT WILSON made a few observations
in support, of the Petition, and read some extracts
from the Commissioners Report, which details 4 the
cruelties practised towards prisoners,who were afraid
to make any complaint.
Mr. P. MOORE thought Mr. Hunt particularly
entitled to the favour of Government, for having
caused the exposure of the wickedness which was
carried on' in l)chester Jail. He hoped when any
Member of that House heard of any individual being
treated with cruelty, he would take it up and have it
inquired into, lest the case might be one day his own.
Mr. Hunt had been cruelly treated ; and unless Mi-
nisters punished the aggressors they would not do
their duty, for the doing of which they were so well
and so amply paid by the country. 'The Hon. Gen-
tleman then went into a narrative of the abuses,
which, as he heard from an Hon. Friend of his, then
no more, existed in the jails of Ireland, under the ad-
ministration of Lord Hardwicke. The greatest abuses
prevailed in the Jail of Kilmainham in Ireland, and
although the jailer was removed, yet he was found
on the Pension List,with £4OO a-year !—(Hear, hear).
believed it was the intention to give a similar
pension to Bridle!—(Hear).—.The Petition was then
brought up, read, and ordered to be printed.
Mr. Alderman WOOD said he held in his hand
two Petitions on the same subct. One of them was
from the individual himself, the presenting of which
be would postpone to a future opportunity, as it
would not be proper to draw the House into a dis-
cussion then on it. The other Petition, which he
hoped to be allowed to lay on the table, was signed
by 4.000 of the inhabitants of Bolton, in Lancashire,
who called upon the House to interpose in favour of
Mr. Hunt, or to relieve him from prison altogether.
He would not then, after all, that had been said on
the subject, take up the time of the House with any
observations of his. Vie worthy Alderman, after
adverting to the letter written by Mr. Hunt to Mr.
Justice Bayley, in consequence of which orders were
given by the King's Bench to allow Mr. Hunt's soli-
citor and surgeon free access to him, moved that he be
allowed to bring up the Petition.—lt was accordingly
brought up, and ordered to bt printed.

the Noble Lord tight upon that occasion, he had
stated that there would be an annual and gradual re-
duction of taxation resulting from the operation of
the Sinking Fund by the Commissioners placing to
the credit of the taxes the *plus, W any, and the
interest arising from the 5.000,9001: Sinking Ptmdf--
(Hear, hear). If that plan waitgiven up, ate Coun-.
try Gentlemen were bound to observe that thir,ve-
duction of 'one shillint on the bushel of malt was all
they hid totexpeet. and that no further reduction
was in contemplation.
The Menials of LONDONDERRY said) that he
never stated that as a point of fact. What be stated
was, that as they were then able to realize theirße-
solution of 1819, declaring the expediency of setting
apart a clear Sinking Fund of five millions, and as
they had a clear surplus above that sum, it would be
open for the consideration of. Parliament, whether
that surplus was to be applied for the remission of
taxation, or for the acceleration of the liquidation of
the National Debt: He distinctly said, that it was
open far the discussion of Parliament, whether that
surplus was to be allowed to accumulate for the re-
duction of the Dent; or whether it was to be applied
to the remission of taxation, or divided between both
those objects. He had no hesitation in sa) ing, that,
ender the present circumstances of the country, the
House would best exercise the discretion veved in
them by applying the surplus of 1,400,000/. accruing
from the reduction of the Navy Five per Cents. to
the remission of taxation. But he did not mean to
say that that mode was to be continued beyond the
present pressure on agriculture. Under other cir-
cumstances the plan might be suspended. If the agri-
cultural distress should pass away, as the distress un-
der which the manufacturing and commercial inte-
rests laboured had done, then it might be applied to
other purposes. He hoped he made himself under-
stood to the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. TIERNEY said, that he understood the Noble'
Lord to ray that the application of the growing stir.
plus of the sum redeemed was in the discretion of
Parliament. But whatever that gtewing surplus
might be, at compound interest, it was, by several
Acts of Parliament, to be applied to the liquidation
of the National Debt, and Parliament had not, any
discretion without an Act of Parliament. If the
Noble Lord spoke of a glowing surplus at simple in-
terest, then the operation of the Sinking Fund by
compound interest was abandoned, and the Acts of Par-
liament vesting it in Corn missioners should be repealed.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY recapitulated
the statement which he made before, and said he
meant the accruing surplus beyond the Sinking Fund
of five millions, which were to be applied according
to the Resolution of 1819.
Mr. TIERNEY said he was astonisked to hear the
' Noble Lord open his lips and talk of a surplus of a
Sinking Fund of five millions: there was no such stir-
plus. Of the Sinking Fund of seventeen millions,;
from which twelve millions had been taken in the
shape of a loan, this five millions remained ; but that
was no surplus. The Noble Lord had no Such sur-
plus. He seemed as if he talked of a new Fund to
that amount. He (Mr. Tierney) would not use a
harsh expression, but he would say the Noble Lord
was not acquainted with the nature of the Sinking
Fund. He wished, when they talked of the Sisiking
Fund, that they understood what it was. He thought,
after the Resolution of 1819, we had started anew;
bat it seemed it was no such thing; that was a fal-
lacy, and no further reduction was to be expected.
Mr. ELLICE said he rose to request of the Hon.
Member for Corfe Castle to postpone his motion, in
order to give an opportunity of discussing the sub-
ject fully. There seemed to be a complete misun-
derstanding. From what he could learn from an
Hon. Member, a friend of his, his Hon. Fr iend voted
on a former night with the understanding that the
Noble Lord had put an end to the Sinking Fund, as
formerly established. He (Mr. Ellice) gave his vote
on that understanding. In fact, the Right Honour-
able Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer)
bad long since put an end to it by his mismanage-
ment. By his funding of Exchequer Bills, by raising
the price of Stocks against himself, and by buying
in at high prices, the country lost from six tb seven
millions within a few years. As they were to have
a new system of Sinking Fund, the subject ought to
be discussed; and he came here with a view to beg
the Hon. Member would postpone his motion.
Mr. MABERLEY said he understood the Noble
Lord meant to give up to the necessities of the State
the interest on the five milliohs. He conveyed that
impression to his (Mr. Maberley's) mind in distinct
terms. The Noble Lord could not say so, unless he
meant to repeal the Acts of Parliament which vested
the accumulation in theCemmissioners. The Noble
Lord seemed to know nothing of the matter, and it
would be better to leave it in the hands of the Right
Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer).
He was happy that the Right lion. Gentleman meant
to give a better system of keeping the public accounts
for the future. The accounts lately laid on the table
were a disgrace to the,country and to the Chancellor
of the Exchequer. The accounts brought down by
the Right Hon. Gentleman differed widely from
those laid on the table by the Noble Lord. One or
other were incorrect, and perhaps both. With a view
to reconcile those various accounts, he (Mr. Maber-j
ley) went to the Treasury, and applied to Mr. HAI
who admitted he could not reconcile them.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY' again rose,
and begged to be understood that he distinctly stated
that it would be open for the consideration of Par-
Dement whether the surplus and interest would be
applied to.the reduction of taxation, or suffered to
operate by compound interest in reducing the Na-
tional Debt. His opinion was, that it would be bet-
ter, for the present year, to apply it to the relief of
the country.
Lord ALTHORPE said that the Noble Lord had
on a former night clearly and distinctly stated that
the surplus beyond the five millions was to be applied
to the remission of taxation. hat/as on that under-
standing that several of the Members voted with
him; but the Noble Lord now turned about and
maintnined the contrary.

satisfactorily apparent variance
public accounts, quite obvious tit**
tinny accounts, made out in different offices, might
bays some obscurity ; and it was for that reason he
proposed a Committee for the simplification of thus
'accounts particularly the Sinking Von&
Mr. IiABERLEY commended the accuracy of
Mr. Hill, and wished he was at the bar of the
House to explain the accounts on the table, not ono
item of which was correct._

Sir HENRY PARNELL wished to know whethet
the Right Hon. Gentleman contemplated the simply
fication of all public accounts, or only those accoante
which. were to be laid before Parliament?

tirAIUME could hardly believe the flight Roll.
Gentleman sincere, when he said the accountslaid oft

the table were correct. In one item which he toot
the trouble to examine, he found in the Right Hot%
Gentleman's account 1,800,0001. whereas the same
item in .the Noble Lord's account was 2,115,0000
*hid; made a difference of 315,0001. Why the ac-

counts of the Treasury should be kept in this cue-
fused manner, he was at a loss to discover. The Right
lion. Gentleman had already admitted the necessit;
of simplifying. the public accounts : he conceived that
the necessity was immediate.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed
with the Hon. Member as to the propriety of correct-
ing the present mode of furnishing the public :lc.
counts. He had, after some deliberation, formed a

plan for simplifying the public accoun-.4—(Heer)—
which it was his intention to ixplain to the House in
a short time. With respect to the Treasury account*,
he was ready to acknowledge t 1 at there was a ci;ifer-
ence between some parts of them as comparLd with
the same accounts furnished at an,,ther period. But
when the House considered that there were ti ree dif-
ferent sotirces fiom which these accounts can e, they
should be a little indulgent in the examination cf
them, particularly as there could be no danger of any
error being the result of an improper mode at keep-
ing the accounts, for it would be found that the ac-
counts in the office were all exactly correct.
Mr. TIERNEY said, he was at a loss to see why
the arrangement with respect to the Sinking Fund
should not be taken in hand immediately, and not
postponed until after the Budget. As yet the Pobiie
were in a state of suspense as to what object the sink-
ing Fund accruing at present was to be applied.
' Mr. P. MOORE urged the House to adopt every
means in their power for saving the country.
The motion was then agreed to.

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./7,7:10, of arranging tlol nongpts would The CHAi CRULOit of the lIICHIIQtrE It was
iption 4: dedance.irthe araers of Oat - be •kimrprised any Hos. Crentleasio would call fol. info?
ravv lig would call the rieollectiost of• 0011„
a's d:alitfil Ott :yr!, BRNIEY 1 rill 10 Ina* au/ mly to elation at the Treasury. It svM no. usual io e -
: MatriPe Right Hon. • 4 hod said; lint he: into details with those who sOd go there. 'there nwa%
Cnce in of Mar Cure old bet Infailika
was-called/ otoncitlhe7thbare
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valianicele
He wished toknow from the Noble Lard opposite (Lou. not in the community a mont useful or. more intelli.
1,. To.. former night by his Hon. Frieof“ .illettnet). than Mr. Hill; and he was sure, if that
:tine the Would contend that immoderate punishments Were dnnderry) whether
. heudher, ed to what 'he said oil a Rent
,c(kotialltdLlias:ifittteri.
es urn inflicted. The water used by the prisoners was not
cfoleramrear,oidersttght,inthirhite cononthsidaterpoied
mit rieciesf
ustrundey to Lave
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" 64316- the pure river water—they were compelled to use the .
.1.. lams). T Anvil wet,t amen that Occasion. he had in the public accounts. It was quite obviosss that it