Star.
London, England, 1813-03-23 00:00:00

PRINCESS OF WALES.

CeitiinkS atin.l4ted 01, he *is Seeplisett to tutei Lin
Hon. Friend think that there was even a possible ii-
uracy in the. paper he had read the other night/ A
.3endernan, he had said, bad giten it tti him, ofd
otiose honour and veracityhe relied ; but even that
vas hardly a sufficient inducement for the strong ob.
ervations he bad made. But then there was the
,:rong declaration of the CiimmissiOners I In what
A situation must any man be, in, such a trust, if lia-
Ole to such correetidni ? The honour and charactiee
of the Lord High Chancelldr, the Lord Chief Justice
of the 'King's Bench, of the Secretary of State, of
the First Lord of the Treasury, were all called in
question, merely upon the after-recollections of Mrs.
Lisle. He believed Mrs. Lisle, to be a most respec-
table woman ; he had seen her, and he was acquain-
ted with her connections; but nothing should induce
him to take the after-recollections of any person
against what was sworn to and signed before a Court
of Justice. • All this, on the part of his Hon. Friend,
was;nothing more than a mistake : the best of men.
were liable to be misled : their judgments might be
imposed upon, and he thought his *Hon. Friend
might as well give up the matter.
Mr. WHITBREAD was sorry to incur the cen-
sure of his Right H ,n. Friend ; but he had acted on
sufficiently mature reflection. He should, therefore,
send the paper to Ms-s. Lisle, and ask her whether
she believed or acknowledged that the questions were
put ? whether she would assert that they' were put to
her in the course of her examination ? If he had
been misled in supposing that the questions might
have been put down as well as the answers, it was
through seeing that mode practised in various other
cases. He referred with pain to one case where it
was done—he meant the proceedings on the Tenth
Report, in. which every question was put down. If
Mrs. Lisle should say they were asked, then he should
request her to state when she recorded them. In that
lease, he shouts not think himself so Wrong as others
did. He had had no notice hitherto taken of what
he commented upon, not any demal sent to him, nor
r had he heard of any public notice of the matter till
just then. Till he had made the inquiries he had
now mentioned, he should deem himself blameable,
in acknowledging ai an imposition, what had not yet
been proved to be erroheous And false. -
Mr. BRAGGE 13A.THURST said, that the prin-
ciple of taking down questions, alluded to by the
Hon. Member, would affect half the judicial pro-
ceedings of the country. He (Mr. Whitbread) must
know, as a Country Magistrate, that answers were
taken down without the questions. It was the same
.with the summing up of the Judges, who took down
only the substance of the evidence. Ought this paper
to be sent to Mrs. Lisle for her recollections, after
the Noble Lords disci timed it ? Nobody up to this
time, let it be observed, had authenticated the sup-
posed document. The Hon. Member had not ascer-
tained whether it came from the only person who
could give to it any shadow of authenticity. It could
not be authentic : at the best, it was but the recol-
lection of a witness brought up to contradict what
had been regularly recorded. He had strong objec-
tions to her recollections concerning what had been
read to her, and signed by her own hand. Such
things occasioned the most unpleasant circumstances.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he had abstained from
doing any thing till he should know that the paper
was disclaimed: He now heard that it was a false
fabrication. For his own part, lie did not yet feel
himself ready to say this.

Mr. WHITBREAD rose, and observed, that. he
had read part of a paper to the House the other
night on the subject of .the examination into the con. i !
duct of her Ito) al Highness the Princess of Wales
he had then stated, that if he -should find that any
imposition had been practised upon him, he would i
readii) and publicly acknowledge it in his place.—
He had just learnt, froM a short report, that a high
Aultiorit) in another place had, in a very temperate
ava), teclarechbat paper to be a fabrication from be-
ginning to end- an entire falsehood— and had impu-
ted weakness to him for having used it. --He (Mr.
Whitbi ead) had discovered no additional reasons for
supp sing that the questions stated !in the paper in
question were ina put; except in this disclaimer of
them, and was declai aural of the falsehood of the
statement, made in a coarter to 'A hiCh it would not
be guise regular for bun more particularly to
He tett, ,heretore, under these circumstances, that it
would be but justice in him! to apprise the. •witness,
Mrs. Lisle, of the matter. and it she also .!isclaiined it,
then the disavowal woul.. be complete, and he should I
be very ready to acknowiedge that he had been
posed upon. Bu, until' she hid seen t!,e.se questions
and answers, which N ere st.,ted to be impositions upon !
him, and until he bad riceived her answr-i ri.spect- i
ing them, he must suspenii tne declaration ,
lief in the imposture. As for the /locus., nt, wid- !
ever it might be, he h .o neii her bought it nor sought'
it. He had not rece:iett it fr m tie Princ:?ss tN
Wales, nor from .:ny person in an official situation,.
or connected with politics or puhlic lite. He should
believe that an imposition h.d been practised when
he should find that all the five persons, the four
Loins Commissioners and 'oils. .I_,isie, concurred in
stating theparticuiars to be tatse. In suspending at
pret•eht an acknowledgment of imposition, an oppor-
tunity unfortunately w.;ind be soon afforded him by
the intended motion on Wednesday nest, for stating
what he kne\v, and what were his view of the sub-
ject: Should th motion be ..vi.loiraven, he should
take another opportunity'of explaining himself.-
Lord CAS TLEREAGH observed, that such
great inconveniencies arose from incorrect and irre-
gular statements, that it was highly desirable, that
any Getitl. man should ascertain, on such occasions,
that he was making use of an authenticated ch.cu-
ITICIar. •

Mr. WHITBREAD remarked, that there wax a
diffrience between an authenticated, and an authen-
tic document.
Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that an im.,
pression had been made on the public mind,shat the
Commissioners did present a report with depositions,
utittli, it that paper were authentic, were not in strict
conformity to the nature of the evittence received by
thm.

WHITBREAD said; the question was, whe-
ther the answer was, or was not given to a corrected
tot stion ? What he had stated was, that the-depo-
sitioil would have been different, if taken correctly
from the evidence, as stated in the paper of which he
had read some parts.
Mr. 'TIERNEY remarked, that in such cases of in-
testigation, it was not the practice to put down the
questions. No minutes of questions to Mrs. Lisle, in
the course of her evidence were taken; but her answers
were written down, and were then all read over to I
her ; after which she signed the deposition. He was
sorry to be obliged to differ frem his Hon. Friend;
but he must ask him what doubt he could have upon
l is ruind on the subject of the fabrication, unless he
trie.tnt to go the ici:gtli f s•ipposing that the four •
Lords Commissioners had any view of entrapping
Mrs. Lisle ! Aiter the full assertion of the Commis-
sioners, that the evidence of Mrs. Lisle was taken as
44ftrectir, AU point of form, as L &wore of the pro-

last' that bogy
se ants of 14eitter ability and high,* character than
the East-In is CoMpany. It was altilott impossible
to pdint otit a country in *Pilch bn equitable system
of goVerninent had keit iicr long and sp dndetiatingly
maintained; and in ivhich so few acts of flagrant
public delinquency had occurred. It did certainly
happen, that from the liberality of their allciwances,
from the class of individuals out of which they were
Chosen, and from the whAesorne discipline which
they received in theif official clinks, that few govern-
ment, amid exhibit so many examples of efficient
public servants abroad as the East-India Company ;
and he should do injustice . both to the individuals
j conceited, and to his own feelings, if he did not allow
that the same remark was applicable to their servants
at home. While his official duties more intimately
connected him with India affairs, he had enjoyed fre-
quent opportunities of judging of the habits of busi-
ness, not only of the heads of departments, but of
those by whom the Company were served in all their
domestic branches; and his ftill conviction, founded
on experience, was, that ni•body could be better
served, no affairs could be more ably and more effi-
ciently• managed than the affairs Of the East-India
House. This was his sincere feeling on the general
subject ; and he trusted, therefore, that it would not
be thought probable that he would embrace any pro;
position calculated to subvert a system which, al-
though it might be lubject to the impertection of all
human plans, had happily tended to accomplish the',
great objects of its institution. If Government,
however, feeling the necessity of some alteration in
this system, correspondent to the necessitiz..s df the
times, had proposed that alteration during. the exist-
ence of the Charter, for such advise they would have
been responsible, and it-*ould have been incumbent 1
on them to make out a strong case. But now 1
nisters found themselves, at the expiration of the
Charter, tree to judge what would be most advan-
tageous for the Company, for the Public at large, and
fur so large a portion of the human race, as that
.comprehended under the British Government in India.
He was acting under a conviction that the proposition
he should bring forward was both safe and expedients
and it it should be made appear to him that he was
in error, by persons possessing better means of in-
formation than himself, he was prepared to adopt
theft: views in preference to his own. No person could
suppose that his Majesty's Ministers %km conciliating
any existing interests. Their conduct was the result
of a deliberate, conscientious, and vxtensive considera-
tion
of the subject. Without being driven to the ne-
vssity of discarding the agency of the Company and
adopting another instrument for the Government of
India, we could pursue a middle course. As to the'
continuance of the Charter in its present su.te, no
ground of policy could be offered to Parliament in its
support No principle could justify them in confining
the current of a commerce so abundant and extensive
within the narrow limits of any Company, however
respectable. What reason could be offered for the ex-
clusion of a itish subjccts ? It has been objected that
the Comp:my, in their corporate capacity, are ade-
quate to the whole of the East India commerce in its
present state. But why must it be supposed sta-
tionary ? That commerce contains a principle of
grow th which even the present system cannot com-
pletely restrain. Another i,bjection he would notice,
• and admit to a tertain extent the probability, of great
individual losses from extravagant speculation. But
was it in refererce to unreasonable hopes and per-

EAST-INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.
sonal di3appointments that we should legislate for the I
On the motion of Lied CASTLEREAGH, the commerce ot a great nation. This was neither the
House then resolved itself into a Committee on the rule upon which to act, nor the criterion to judge. Oh
:ti, that the Charter of th
Affairs at the East India Com the subject oi commt:rce we sf..aild reason as we do in
()laser,/ paeyn . His LordsEast-India Com.
hip
war, where the sufferrigs and sacrifice of many pt gal-
,
patty bei g on the eve of expir;ng, it felt to the lot Lint soldier are the means of producing national se-
of Pirliameet, under the direction and recommends.: cooly and national glory.—(Hear, worldear, h.ar.)—Hr
of the Crown, to take into considerati,in the best ; particularly impress upon the House, the inherent
i principle of increase in the commerce of India. 'llk
means by which our extensive territory in India might
private trade, within the last nineteen years, had
henceforward be governed. In loci' diming to the '
House a subject ot such extraordinary magnitude grown to one-third of the commerce of the Com-
and importance, it was imiiossible not to be struck Parry; yet the disadvantages and discouragement/
with the singularity of the case, that it shoull de-
were obviously great, whew the ships were manned
vplve on the supreme power in Great Britain, at the by a party that might be considered adverse. Re-
pref.. t moment, to deliberate on what should be the,
girding the question in a national point of view, its
m
future system of government, in a country so mach magnitude appeared tar beyond the grasp and power
exceeding in extent and population the parent state, of the Cumpany ; its continuance, therefore, must
Hews ;:ersuaded that the Committee would feel, be injurious to the interests of the country and their
that in addaion to the political there was a great mo-
i own. —(Hear, hear, hear.)—He ( Lord Castlereagh)
ral trust.
and that it etas incumbent on them to t•lposed in the British Legislature on this should, for the present, argue the question rather
occasion:
on -principle than in detail, as he should have fu-
weigh well. measures in which the interest and happi- turn opportunities for a mole particular and minute
ness of so Large A portion of ' the human race were develorement. He should simply put the House
involved. It was an unexampled feature in the his-
in possession of his proposition, and he trusted the
Huse would not conclude against it from his not
e
tory of Governments, that the prosperity and happi-
ness of a limber of human beings, three-fold that ofering into detail. Whilst the public had conti-
ent
the inhabitants of this country, should be confided to nued this boon to the Company, it was not with a
view to their particular commercial interests, but
the wisdom of the Legislature. He had no difficulty
,with an ultimate regard to other grand objects of
in stating for himself, and for those with whom he
national policy. Time Company 14d undertaken a
had the honour to act, that if they could persuade
hurthen crow beyond their strength to bear. One
themselves that the arrangements which it was their
evil in this respect arose from the defect of their ca-
intention to propose, would shake the existing system
pital in proportion to a commerce so extended. This
iin India; they would hesitate before they suggested
detached theth from their most useful and appro.
i any thing which might change a system which had
priate concerns.. The private trade was not only com-
unquestionably answered all the great purposes of
plaited of by those engaged in it, but carried on even
Government to a degree rarely to be found in any with loss to the Company. The system, therefore,
human institution, ind more especially in one of no
was not only pernicious in its general operation, but
very remote antiquity. But he begged leave to say, oppressive to the Directors. They would sacrifice
that his proposition would not only abstain from
of
touching the principle of that system, but would ten-
not only the commercial interests of the nation, but
der it more applicable to the circumstances of the even their ',syn. He would rake a future opportunity
of chewing that when their own capital stock was
times. It was a proposition that he was persuaded found insufficient, they had recourse to the money
would conduce to the prosperity, not only of India
market in India, the only one optn to them, in order
and the Empire, but to no branch of the general in- to support the existing fabric, thpoughreve the interest was
terest more than to that of chi:East-India. Company
themselves in their commercial capacity. His Ma-
from 10 to 12 per cent. This nted them from
jesty's Ministers had not been blind to the excellence directing and extending their commerce in the most
of the institutions of the East-India Company—in- beneficial lines. Ot this China was a strocg ins'atice,
stitntions which they were most anxious should not where they might otherwise have subdued all comeete
be dissolved. The Company had raised up an Em- non, and preserved their own advancement in i more
steady course. It was new become necessary that the
Aire unexampled in the world, and the government influx of national capital should be general and un-
of that Empire had been administered on principles r
eminently conducive to the happiness of the Hume- restrained. Some system, whether that of 1793, or
roue individuals living under it. It was a govern-
of 1802, was now become necessary. He trusted,
from the union of interest that the various parties,
ment founded on theory so wise, and brought to such were interwoven with the present 'ye-
practical perfection, that he did not believe the his-
them, all would conspire in approving the fined judg.
tory of the world could exhibit its equal. It was a
singular fact in the constitutional policy of India, anent of Parliament. He (Lord Castlereagh) shout.
that in the administration over fifty millions of per-
never think of proposing a complete change ot sys-
tem, the CoMany should mink roper to -
sons, the number of civil servants employed by-the
dicate theunless p Government, and sacrifice thereby the gabe
Company did not exceed 1600 individuals. Few
nerel interests ot the Empire. He would admit that
European countries ever experienced ao mild a go-
the tranfer of such patronage without regulation,
vernment, or one more advantageous to the inhabi.
tants. AS tar as he bad an opportunity of judging, "(mkt be alarming to tkle 4agiala;are• liar 414441

•
he 'life recourse to 1.4 ii4pt thin e absolut as!iesil
• • -
—;•If such a moment of peidessity shduld at in demi
arise, he had no doubt that; by the Wisdunt of
meat, eiety diffictilty Might be Mrmountedi and
evert* Constitutional jealousy disarmed: The dom..
piny declared themselies satisfied to sanction,a
anon froni she ektablithed system in 180! If thei
now say that they prefer retracting their foirnet cdn:
cessions, than go on to the lerigth now proposed; it
Was incumbent on them to make out a strong case
indeed. He (Lord Castlereagh) Was await of An
objection in the back ground, that the concessions to
'the Company would not be sufficiently liberal. This
would be the subject of ftiture conibit ration: Hie
first Resolution should expreis a general declaration
that the whole system should be continued, excepting
only so far as it should be altered by the subsequent
Resolutions. So far he would recognize the existing
system; both in respect to the period of renewal and
the general principle. The China trade should be
exclusively confined to the Company i—they should
have the sole importation of tea. He should not, how:
ever, enter into detail, but should content hintself with
declaring his opinion, that the existing system of
trade with China was so generally beneficial, and any
change appeared so hazardous, that it would not be
for the wisdom of Parliament to Sanction any change.
—lt would be advantageous to the Public to grant
this exclusive trade, it would contribute to a joint
fund applicable to the reduction or. the public debt.
This led hint to a branch of the .iibiect which con-
tained in it 'lie great MASS of controversy. He
wished tO.admil the private trader (proltih.t, d only
front the tea trade, and the entnire of China) along
the vast track contained between the Cape nt (;,.aa
Hope and the Straights or Migellan, c..ntining
the trade to British ships of 400 mos, or 339 re-
gistered burthen. He should not for the present
mane the British vrts that should he
Fps ned.—
They should he provided t.;).'a docks and tvarehotiset
for the security of the revenue. The sctectiiiii o! the

outports should be made with as much lisp .nsibility
:is possible. A Special Commilbsiun might be lip.
pointed from the Treasury Board, arid the revenue
secured liy an Order in Council. The unit excep-
tion he should propose was that of piece goods, which
it smuggled into this country, would be very injurl
ous to our manufactures, by an unfair competition
and lower price. Those, therefore, should be prolii.
bited from the ()worts. It must be satisfactory to
the Company to know, that the Government wend
equally interested with themselves in preventin./
smuggling. Tea, he would admit, was molt
to he smuggled, but no greater facility would be given
by openiniT the outports than existtd at present. Tea
might easily be procured from America, and trom
many European countries that traded with China, as .
well as from the many islands open in the Pacific
Ocean, but it was somewhat singul .r that the track
chosen by the Company IT the importation of teal
up the channel and rouni the foreland, was pecu-
liarly calcul ited to encourage smuggling. He, at
first sight, thought some difficulty did exist in the
mode of receiving, hut this difficulty disappeared
on examining the book of rates. The articles
rated ad valorem were comparatively inconsiderable.
They might be changed, with a difference of only
five per cent. to a ditty on the declared tale
at Leadenhall street. This was the mode gene-
rally practised in our whole commerci eyctem.
It was quite unreasonable and abs'ird, that a: ticks of.
Great value and difficulty of removal should ?.m lane
fed at the Port of London for no useful purpose
whatevt r, subject at the same time to great r'sk. in-
convenience, and expellee.- eimniercial inteiceurse
with the outports under such circumst inces did not

dcserve the name. The next objection is, that the
greAt influx of British subjects, and their Subsequent
intercourse, might prove dangerous to the securitq
of our Empire to I.ldia. He Would discharge frown
his mind altogether thy chimericAl idea of colonisa.-

than, where intercourse was only permitted for occa-
sional business, and no property could be permanently
acquired. But he would rely sdely upon the prin-
ciple, however powerful; he would rest upon the
authority to be continued unimpaired in the hands
of the Company to .emove any person of improper or
suspected character. Surely there was nothing noxious
in the character of a British subject to create alarms
not excited by the intercourse of Americans and indi-
viduals of other nations. It was not the existing sys.
tem that even now prevented persons from going to
India, but the war. Access WAS easy, though indirect.
—The great obstacle to colonization was not how
they should get there, but what they should do there
The Noble Lord then t3ok a view of the general
trade, and contended, that the Company had not ca.
' pital enough to make the most of it. The conflicting
interests of individuals, or of individual bodies, he
contended, contributed to the general good. There
was a certain length beyond which the Company
could not go, but a h it the Company could not effect
might be done •by individuals. He knew it might
be said that these alterations would lead to embarrass-
ments, but these did not discourage Government in
the plan they had to propose. The next Resolution
he had to submit related to the funds of the Com-
pany. An abridgment of expenditure, he contendeli
was absolutely necessary, buth for the good of -the
public and the Company itself. In 1811, the surplus
revenue appeared to be only £lOO,OOO. Lord Minto,
it appeared, had stated the surplus revenue in 1812,
and £650,000 ; but here, it was to be observed, that
no provision was made for territorial expence at
home. It was necessary to look out for some measure
of retrenchment. He proposed setting aside a fund
for• the liquidation of the Company's debt. It
would be desirable to reduce their debt abroad
to • ten millions, and their debt at home to two
millions. After such a reduction, he proposed
that the surpts revenue should be applied to the
service of the public, reserving one-sixth for the
use of the Company, and five-sixths of such stir-.
plus revenue for the Public. At the same time
it was not his intention to insist on the payment
of the £500,000 a year according to the terms of
the last Charter. Another object to be kept in
view was thr • keeping of accounts in such a man-
ner as to be easily understood, and to she°, Vie bear-
ings of each department. On this subject he had
found much difficulty in coining to any distinct idea
with respect to the merits of the several concerns. It
was desirable, therefore, that the accounts should be
rehdered more intelligible. He had now litiie more
left him to notice but the political government of La-
-44, IV biff ostversil tlt mac Its ciNk
_ .

u

r

•

•
'e• v7' s'ips hulk istladia were to be eons i
.3! 1: -! :a this respect, was not to be treated as
• 2 riJl-.ll' bet much of this subjeit must be
1 ' :he future regulation of Parliament. He
rt .- • it ships bulb there should be employed in
• . ,teace ia commerce between India and the
country, but in time of war they should be:
. V- to the yearn' service of the empire. They j
'rvs:,:all J. Olits in time of peace be a very useful nursery'
rte • .l" Navy in time of war. (Hear, hear). He also
to take care that those bringing Lascars to this
- • ry should support them while here, and prevent
t`•,-.r being any expense to the Public. With respect
to the Company's pensioning their servants some re-
Ira:mons were also necessary. At present they could
not grant any provisions, but they might give a grant
sums to any amount. It was by no means his in-
tention to lower the character of the Compaly with
ti•e natives, but it was advisable. that some regula.
Lions should take place with respect to the native
army. In his opinion it was desirable that the whole
military establishment of India should be under one
head. With respect Lo the transfer of the Company's
army, a great deal might be said on both sides ; but
• both his Colleagues and he were satisfied that the •
Company were incompetent to the task of supporting
the army, though it was at the same time desirable
• they should not withdraw the local name and autto-
rity of the Company. It was desirable, so long as
. they remained Sovereigns, to let them havethe power •
of the sword : he saw no difference between the Com-
pany and the Country in this respect; but in case of a
foreign enemy, such' as France; attacking India, it
was not fair that. the Compriny should bear the whole
expense. They should, therefore, at the outset, name
the number of troops to be maintained by the Company,
and let the Country supply what 'more might be neces-
aary. .With respect to the Civil GOvernnient, he wished'
the name of the Company to he upheld, and all acts
to continue in their' name, rather dean in that of the
Country. As they had several very' great servants,
however, in their nomination, he wished they should
• be, appointed by the .distinct approbation, instead, as
at present,: of recalling them in case of disapproha
tun or annulling the-appointment. He would leave
the nomination to the Company ; but that nomina-
tion,. to be effectual, must have the sanction of the
Crown by the sign manual. There was only one
other subject he had to notice—that of religion. On
this subjeit he thought it would be unwise to legis-
late, or make any alteration-in the present state of the
COmpany's Establishment ; but for the sake- of the
Europeans resident in India, it might be desirable to
have a Bishop there, with the assistance of three Pre-
bends, for the exercise of some of the functions of the
Church, and particularly of confirmation, of which
the settlers there were at present deprived. Lord
Castlereagh then handed his Resolutions to the Chair-
man', which were accordingly severally read. The.
•Resolutions provided-
- I. That all the present immunities of the Company, and the
regulations respecting the same, should continue, except as herein •
after provided,
2. That the China Trade should continue under the present
restrictions.
S. That it should be lawful for any British subject to export
to any other part included in the Company's Charter from any
port of the United Kingdom.
4. Also to inriort thence to any port in the United Kingdom.
S. Provided the warehouses at the said ports should be deemed
safe for the purposes of the Revenue.
6. And that this be notified by an Order in Council.
7. Provided the vessel h which goods be imported or exported
bp of a burthen not less than 350 tons.
8. And that on approaching port the vessel notify its arrival
by a manifest.
9. Regulations as to importation and sale of silk and hair
goods.
10. As to the order of the application of the revenues of the
Company : I.To the payment of the troops and support of the
Eons. 2. To liquidate debts on bills of exchange. S. Other
debts except bond debts.- 4. To pay a dividend of ten per cent.
awl a contingent half per cent. S. To liquidate the bond debts
encil they amount on!), to £3,000,C05. 6. The surplus profit to
be divided in t:ie rati., of 5-6ths to Government and t-6th to the
Company, with a provision for repaying the capital stock.
11. Regulations respecting the employment of India shipping.
12. Provisions for the support and return of the Lames
brought to England in private vessels.
IS. Provision to enable the Company to grant pensions and
gratuities.
14. Provision for the appointment to the different Presiden-
cies, and to render in cessary the approbation of the Crown.
IS. Appointment of a Bishop and three Arch-deacons, to be
paid by the Company.
Mr. R. THORNTON -remarked, that the Noble
Lord, by expressing .his intention of still leaving to the
company the appointment of their own servants,
proved that the Noble Lord's radical change was not
founded upon any incapacity in the Company. From
is personal responsibility, he took the first opportu-
nity of entering his protest against the Noble Lord's
plan. He claimed attention from the Committee,
pot on his own account, but on account of the weight
of the subject : it concerned the welfare of two em-
fires, and involved the commercial credit of the coun-
try : the happiness of 60 millions of people in India
depended on the plan. The Noble Lord had not
panted the number of ports on which he intended to

canter the evil of the tiade to India. The fact was,
that the NoMe Lord' bad treated it more as a com.

snercial than a political ques..ion, and in that he
. tholight the Noble Lord was very wrong. The pro-
p. obi tbn of the.Nuble Lord participated of a mixture of
diili4ence and boldness. which was almost incom-
pat:ble. The Noble Lord wished to open the trade
to a certain degree to the out-ports, without having
duly weighed the vital stab which such an opening
must give to the most important interests of the Cm-
pant. The in,,n.pcly of the East India Company
iras of a payticul ir kind —it was a thing rui jaw* :
and if this monopoly was destroyed, what would be-
come of the Bank ?--,what is to give security to that,
f it was liable to ha broken in upon Y benever di,con-1
teottd persons of any description should think proper
to fi,:cl fault with that Company ? The out-ports
ask to partake of the trade y hich has been esta-
-Wished by the labobr, the genius, and the treasure
of the East India Company. Nothing cculd be
more unreasonable or unjust—they wanted at
vice to come into a participation of a trade which
the East India Ccmpany had estabhed at so
great an expense. H tying incurred this immense
es..perise the 'Company ought certii?ay to derive an
advantage from it ; and it was the opinien of
eminent men, now no more (Mr. Fox and Mr. Pitt),
that to open the trade to India would be the rtiin of
the country. He ridiculed the idea, that the stock ng-
weavers of Nottingham, or the potters in Stafterd
!hire, would be benefited by the trade to India ;
and particularly the making of docks in Liverpos 1,
11;:itentemplation of thii trade being opened to them.
•feridulity of the country was likely to lead it in-
. • .