Star.
London, England, 1805-04-30 00:00:00

SAVAL COteltlls%loll.,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQSJER.
moved the reading of the Aft appointing the-Com.
miffioners of Naval Inquiry, and the Ailleing read
accordingly, the Right Hon. Gentleman rofe, purfu.
ant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill for
the further continuance of that AA. for a time to be
limited. Ina former part of the Sef ions. he obferved
that it was hi;. inteution to bring forward this motion,
if it in inld appear that the Commit:Loners of Naval
'aqui' y fhould be unable i 3 the condi of the Setlion
to fully difchArge the duty affigned to them on their
4poointmln•. This inability was now ap-
parent, as revere! objeas Rill remained for invetliga.
twin which would necelfarily occupy moth time. It
therefore became proper to prolong their continuance;
ith refpett to the conduit and charaler of this
Commiffion, he was,as willing as any man to admit.
that it had produced much ufeful and important in.
formation. At the fame time, however, he would fay,
that there were feveral parts of the conduit of this
Commiffion of which he could not approve, but fill
their inveriigatton had been produttive of many re-
(nits that would conduce to the public fervice, and on
this ground he felt it his duty to fubmit this motion.
The motion being put,
Mr. WHITBREAD thought it extraordinary that
the Right Hon. Gentleman ihould feleA the very
time he was moving for leave to bring in a Bill to
prolong the exitlence of the Naval Commiffion in or-
der to caR a fur upon the conduit of that Commit:
Pion. Such a reflection from any man in the lioufe
would excite furprife, but from the Right Hoa. Gen-
Altman, on fuch an meal= too, it moil be peculiar-
ly furprifing. Not only that, but he was quite fore
It was decidedly oppolite to the generil opinion of
that Hoak, and the univerfally received fentiment
of the Country, that thofe Commiffioners were in any

. .
rzof their conduit &Serving of cenfure. So far
it, that there could be aodoubt that the public
feeling wav warmly in their fgivour, too Mitt fo in-
deed to afford any thing like a, gracious reception to
the Right Hon. Gentleman', remarks. Thofe Com-
mill-inners, in his judgment, and he believed there
were very few who really diffeied froth him, had
difcharged their duty with peculiar moderation and
jutlice If the Right Gentleman thought that I
they had in any inflance deviated from that duty, or
rnal: an improper eremite of the power in/rutted to
-hem, it was incumbent on him to have Rated iv,
:nd not to have dealt in lr.ofe infinuation. Perfuadcd
the merits of this Commiffion, and that where the
refuits of its inquiry were in any cafe imperfea, that
imperfection did not proceed from any want of dili-
gence or capacity oh thelf part, bnt froth a deficiency
in the powers with which they were invelled,hefhould
snore an amendment, the objeet of which would be
to remove that deficiency. The firlt point upon which
he would propofe to extend the power of the Commii-
froners, would be to compel Public Officers to furnifh
them with accounts or documents in loch form as
they may think proper to fpecify. Thus no Treafu-
rer of the Navy, or other Public Officer, or Deputy,
would be permitted to thwart or delay the proceed-
ings of this meritorious Comm;ffiun. The neat amend-
ment he would fubmit, would go to repeal or new
model the fifth claufe, which appeared to have been
fo imprrperly made ufe of to prevent the full difclofure
of public dzlinquency, and to protein deliriquents.
Thole died', which were notorious, and which oeva-
fioned genera regret, mud imprefs the miad of every

man who was really anvl-7:s ftn• the tuczefs of this in.
triiry, with a &dug conViZtion of the necetlity for this
amendment. No t•bjedion could be made to. a fur-
ther !mention of the powers of thofe Cornmillioners
from any apprehenlion that that power was likely to
be abufed—for a4a'n(l fuch an apprehenfion the dif:
cleat and moderate manner in which they had here-
tofore aged mutt afford fufficient isprity. Accord-
ing to the Aft, as it now Rands, every perfon had, It
(cents. a right to decline to anfwer any queltion which
he chafe to think might tend to criminate himfelf.
This afforded fuch a latitude as was calculated corn-

pletely to defeat all inquiry, and he would appeal to
the Learned Gentleman on the other fide (the Attor-
ney General), whether any man would be permitted
in a Court of Law to decline anfwering a queftion
merely upon his own conception that the anfwermight
tend to criminate him ? The pratice, on the contrary,
was, he apprehended, that if a man declined, upon
rich an allegation, to give an anfwer, the Court was
competent to fay, that it did not appear likely the
anfwer would produce loch an effeft, and that there.
fore the witnefs mull anfwer. If,howevet, the anfwer
°mold tend to criminate the witnefs, the Common
Law would proteet him againlf the confequences.
Now it was his with to Scored the Naval Commiffion
. .

with a dilcretion of the fame nature as that poffelfed
by the Judges—that they fhould have the power of
compellinz reluaant witnelfes to anfwer—that fuch
witneifes fhould be protelted by this ftet, not againit
the anfwer, but againit the confequences of Inch an-
fwer. With this view the Hon. Gentleman moved
an amendment to the motion, that the word amend"
Ihould be inferted after the word continued.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
obferved upon the allufions which the Hunourable
Gentleman had made to what he thought proper to
call • Our thrown out by him upon the condu& of
the Naval Commiffion. Surely the Honourable Gen-
tlemnn could not fuppofe that becanfe he felt it his

duty to bring forward this motion, tfiat he was there
fore divefted of the liberty of fpeech, or that he was
to be held out to the odium of that Houk or the

country. becaufe he had thought proper to animad-
vert upon the conduß of the NavalCommiflioners.—

He certainly did think that thofe Commiffioners had
in certain inliances executed their powers in a very
unbecoming manner. But Rill ite was ready to fay

that their fer— vices were produdtiie of pnblic utility,
and in confequence of that opinion he brought for-
ward the motion before the Houle. With regard
to the new provillons recommended by the Honour-
ablo Gentleman, he did not conceive that there were

g ounds for their adoption. They were at all events
of filch a nature as to require much deliberation, and
therefore he should oppofe their introduaion into the
original frame of the Bill If, howeverS they thould
appear upon future confederation to be necefTary, it
would be competent to the Honourable Gentleman
to propofe them in a future Rage, when there would
be a better opportunity for difcuffing them than on
the prefent occafion, namely—in the Ihape of a mo-
tion for an inftration to the Committee to receive
filch claufe. Into the merits of there amendments he
would for the prefent decline to enter at any length.
But 'as to the lag point refpeaing the sth Claufe of
the Aft as it flood, he would fly, that it would ap-
pear to him a breach of common equity, and a moll
dangerous innovation upon the old constitutional
pea lice, to oblige a man to criminate himfelf. It was
loch a propolition as he trulted the Honfe would
feel to be at lean deferving of too much ferious con-
federation, at once to give a fort of opinion by the
adoption of the Honourable Gentleman's motion, that
fuch an amendment was neceffary.
Mr. FOX entirely concurred with his Honourable
Friend in thinking the infinuation thrown out againft
the Naval Commiffion by the Right Honourable
Gentleman who had jug fat down, a molt extraor-
dinary circunirlance indeed, particularly when the
time at which the Right Honourable Gentleman ex-
prefred his difapprobation was taken into view. If
the ground of this difapprobation was of a ferious
and important nature, it was highly inconfittebt in
him to bring forward the motiun before the Houk
For if the Commiftioners were deferving of filch cen-
furc, how could the Right Honourable Gentleman
reconcile it with a jult fenfe of public duty, to pro;
pofe the continuance of their power ? But if, on the
contrary, the grounds of the Right Honourable
Gentleman's difapprobation 'Were of a trifling or
comparatively unimportant nature, how flrange was
the opportunity chosen for declaring it ! There was
fomething peculiarly remarkable in the condua of
the Right Honourable Gentleman refpeaing this
Commiffion. At inch a time, what could he mean
by :sanding to trivial errors—
Just Mat a fault and beltate dillike.
Wilting to hurt, and yet afraid to strike.

•i
cry of bear ! bear ! ) 'fhofe two lines appeared to 1
quite appropriate to exprefs the difpofition of the
.Ight Hon. Gentleman, they feemed to be made for ,
11i6e With refpea to the propofition of his Honour-
able Friend, Gentlemen would confider that the
adoption of it would not go to bind the Honfe to any
fulifidiary amendments that might be hereafter fub-
mitted. He merely propofed that an amendment
was obvionfly necetary in this aft, that the original
title of the bill Ihould correfpond with the cleared °h-
ie*. . If the amendments recommended by his Hon.
Friend, were calculated to entrench on the great and
fundamental principles of common law. he would
not, from any degree of regard or gratitude to the
Commiffioners of Naval Inquiry. and no man refpec-
ted them more than he did, be induced to affent to
their adoption. He wished not that any man Ihould
be bound to criminate himfelf ; but, in any .-45 t which
had for its objea to compel public officers to,account
for their concha& of the public money, he vias very
unwilling 'that a claufe Ihould exifi, calculated to
flicker any public officer from rendering fuch . ac-
count, if he chore to decline it. Ai lead. any akin'.
who Ihould. avail himfelf of fuch a chafe, and thus
explicitly declare an apprehenfiou of the difcovery
of his guilt, ought nit to be allowed, for one moment
afterwards, to retain his office. The eatb *as *dif-,
ferent with refptift to private individuals. But, when
the public thought proper to appoint 4 C 011101446
to inquire into the conducta its Awards or agents
—wai it to be born iliac any one of fuch qr-
rants (hould refefe to aufwer the quefliotis -df filch
a Cornmiflion c but, (till more was it tolerable that
after filch .rtafal he fhould remain in office t If
a public, officer' were innocent, why (hould be with'
to be filent, and. if he were guilty, why (bould
the Legilhattre Facet him in his fileuce ? He did
' -

not mean of coarfe; that any officer fhould be
forced to furnith grounds of profectition againft
•himfelf, but that, if he perfißed in that conduet
whicis clearly implied a confcioufnefs of delin
queney, he fhould be . difmiffed from office. Gen-
tlemen often appeared to forget the nature of thefe
Commiffions. They were, in fat, to be confidered
as the reprefentatives of the public, examining the
conduft of public fervants. If a mailer were to ap
point any perfon to inquire into the affairs of his fami-
ly, and a fervant were to refute to anfwer fuch qtief-
tions as might be put to him from a fear of criminal•
in; hitnfelf, would fuch a fervant be permittted to re-
tarn his place ? Certainly not. Why, then, fhould a
Treafarer of the Navy, or his Clerk, or any other
public fervant, however high, be allowed to remain
in office after refuting to anfwer to the agent of their
matter for the manner in which they had managed
hit, concerns, particularly when their refufal betrayed
a fenfe of guilt ? Whether public officers fhuuld he
compellable to anfwer filch Commiffions or not, it
ought, (urely, in common fenfe and equity, be un-
derstood that a refufal to anfwer fhould be immedi-
ately followed by difmiffal. If that were underttood,
then the refufal of the sth claufe would not be fa ef-
fentially neceffary, although Rill a provifion to meet
fuch a cafe as that of Mark Sprott would be called
for. That perfon declined to anfwer, on ..,e ground
that he was not, being no public officer, compellable
to anfwer quefions under the At. So he was ad-
vifed by the lawyers whom he confidted. Perhaps
thofe lawyers were right, but whether or not, it was

proper to extend and explAin the powers of the Com-
milLoners fo as to leave no room for doubt or cavil,

and to enablk them fully to execute the purpofe of
their appointment. The Hon. Member repeated,
that it was defirable to be underitood that filch a
commiffion as that under confederation was not to be
viewed by public officer. as a hone.: Court of Inquiry,

but as a reprefentative of the public, to whiclith;Y
are as much obliged to account, as any fervants are
to the inquiry of their matters.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL oppefed the
amendment. If it were adopted be would put it to
the confidcration of the Houk how the Bill was to be

framed agreeable to Its title, unlefstherc was a pri.

vate communication between the Honourable den.

tleman and his Rigbt Honourable Friend before the
Bill fhould be drawn up, and that the objeeions ex-
Ming in the mind of his Right Honourable Friend
againft chore amendments &fluid be removed. If
the objettions prevailed againft thole amendments,
which objeaions he himfelf felt ftrongly, fhould not
be done away by futute difcuilion, the Houfe, if the

amendment now propofed were acceded to, might be
placed in the dilemma of having prefixed a title to
a Bill, which the Bill itfelf may prove to be incon•
Rent. It was manifea to him that it would be

much better to pottpone the adoption of a title to the
Bill, which would imply an alteration of the exiiiing
ad, until that change itfelf &mild be determined on.
Mr. SHERIDAN faw no probability of the pri-
vate communication, alluded to by the Learned

Gentleman, taking place between his I lon. Fricnd
( Mr. Whitbread) and the Right Hon. Gentleman
( Mr. Pitt) ; and itill lefs did he think it probable that
even if fuch communication did take place his Hon.
Friend would be able to convince that Right Hon.
Gentleman of the reaitude of any propofition of
which he happened at all to difapprove. The objedion
of the Learned Gentleman to the amendment before
the Houfe wouli be removed by appointing his Hon.
Friend to affifi in preparing the Bill, which would be a
proper proceeding on the other tide, it they meant to

. . .
aft rightly. The Right Hon. Gentleman hid obferved
that the Houle did not part with the liberty of animad-
vetting on the condua of the Commiffioners of Naval
Enquiry merely by affenting to their appointment.—
With this obfervation he concurred, but although
the privilege of canvaffing their condua did of cootie
remain to the Houfe, no Member could airtime the
right of throwing out injurinus infinuations againfl
thofe Commiffioners, without Rating the prectfe
ground of complaint. When the Right Honourable
Gentleman chat ged the Commiflioners with behaving
in an unbecoming manner, it was incumbent on
him to point out what he condemned, in order that
the Commiffioner. might fo conduit themfelves in
future, as to avoid his heavy difapprobation. With
regard to the remarks of the Right Honourable
Gentleman on the fifth claufe of the MI, and the
repugnancy he prof-riled to feel to the unconllito-
tional idea of compelling a man to criminate himfelf,
it had of late beeqme very much the fafhion of the
Right Honourable Gentleman and his friends to cry
out againa felf elimination. But he remembered
when the Right Honourable Gentleman held a di-
realy oppofne language. The argument he offered
to day was grofsly Inconfißent with that which he
ufsd in the year 1785, when he propofed a Commit'.
fion of Inquiry refpating the fees, &c. accepted by
certain Officers, and when he infißed upon the in
trodualon of a claufe quite the contrary of that he
defended on this occafion. And thia chute was
adopted too notwithßanding the expoßulations of
that eminent man who wasnow nomore (Mr. Burke),
which expoliulations that Right Honourable Gen-
tleman then ridiculed. But now he had found it
convenient to change-his tone, and the identical Mr
Trotter, who it was curious to oblerve was in 1785,
forced to anfwer to a Comrniffion propofed by the
Right Honourable Gentleman, was now, with others
of the fame defcription, to be proteaed from anfwer.
tog queftions, for fear fuch Gentlemen ibould crimi-
nate themfelves. Recurring to the loofe cenfures of
the Right Honourable Gentleman on the condo& of
the Naval Commiffioners, the Honourable Member
obferved, that he meant the day after to-morrow to
move a vote of thanks to thole Commiffionets.—
Upon that vote he hoped for unanimity—that the
fatitude of the Houfe would not fall fLort of the
eelings of the country—that their thanks fhould not
be mean and niggardly, but full and complete, equal
to iht warmwillies of the public. In making this
motion he thought it right to warn the Right 1-14-
nourable Gentleman, who teemed f, unwilling to
explain the grounds of his objeftion to the Naval
Commidoners, that.lie would take cate fo to word
that motion, as to compel the Right Honourable
Gentleman to diffent from it altogether, or to Rate
in fairnets and candour the parts of their condua of
which. he difapproves.
Mr. ROSE raid, that be had been always a friend
to inquiries of this nature, fine he had the honour of
a feat in that Houfe—(u' lea gh was not to be
furpored, he obferved, that men who fat on the fame

tide of the Houle with itim, were not as anxious
.to
protea the public money firm dilapidation As any
other per!'ons. If any Gen:leman thought ~ther wife
with refpeet to him—if he knew any thing, he chal-
lenged him to !late it.. A iverting to the allution
made by the Honourable (IL:A:anal) who had jult fat
down, to the eondua of ilk Right Honourable Friend
in the year 1785, he maintai.led that the charge of
incontinency wda unfounded—that his Right Hon.
Friend proceeded upon the lame principle at that

time which he profelfed 111;c evening.
Mr. BANKS thought ionic amendments appeared
necelrary in this ad, in order to do away the obliruc-
tions of which the Commillioners themfelves com-
plained, and which was evident from the Tenth Re-
port. But yet, be would with to wait until the
Houfe thould have full orpor►unity to examine the
provifions of this Al, in order to alcertain whether
thefe obitrudions were the refult of an inherent vice
in the at, or ofa mifconaru frion of the Commiffioners.
After a few words from Mr. Wit ITSREAD, in which
he expreffed his difpnfition to decline preffing his
amendment, and from Mr. PITT, in vindication of
his contiftency, leave was given to bring in the Bill,
and Mr. Pitt and the Attorney General were ordered
to prepare and bring in the fame.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQyER
then moved for leave to bring in a Bill for appointing
Commiffioners to enquire into the public expenditure
of the country, particularly in the military ellablith-
ments, with liberty to them to report to the Houfe
fuch regulations as occurred to them calculated for
the better management of the public expenditure.—.
He thought it would be unnecetfary in hum to enter at
any length into an explanation of the different objeds
of that Bill, after what be had Rated on a former
night. The Bill was meant chiefly to apply to the
military etlablilliments, the ordnance, barracks, &c.
Another important objet was an examination into
the (late of the public accounts. Auditors of accounts
had force years fine been appointed, whore inveftiga.
tions had been of conliderable public utility. From the
long war, however, and ether arcuunftances which had
contributed to render their duty more laborious and
weighty, great arrears had been allowed to accumu•
late, and they had not been enabled to bring their
examination down to fo recent a period as could have
been wifhed. His objeet, therefore, was, to appoint
additional auditors to manage this load of unaudited
accounts, till once things could be brought into fuch
a train that one fet of Commitlioners would be fur&
cient to manage the who'e. This might be the fubjed
of a teparate Bill ; but at the fame time he meant
the Comthillioners appointed by the Bill now fought
to be introduced to have a general fuperintendance
over the whole. Another objet would be an inveai.
gation into the money improperly taken from the
Treafury in Welt India tranfa&toni, and fbould alto•
gether be of a profpctive nature. He fhould be
anxious to attend to the fuggeftions of any Honour.
Mc Gentleman on the fubjeel, by which the general
objet in view could be promoted, and any abufes be
correacd.

Mr. JAMES FITZGERALD Aced if it was
meant that the inquiry thould extend to Ireland ? No
place wanted reform of abufes fo much. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER raid
that the fame fyftem was meant to apply to the joint
fervices of the two countries.
Mr. FITZGERALD inquired if the Comtniffio.
ners were to be the fame for both countries ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Paid •
he entertained force doubts how far that might be
expedient, but he had not yet completely made up
his mind on the inkjet%
Mr. FOX 1.441, that however anxious he might be
to fee Bills introduced for the cure and prevention of
abufes, he could not bring his mind to approve of any '
Bill of the kind brought in at the pretent moment,
under the aufpices of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—
Confidering every thing which had been lately brought
to light against the dear friend and colleague of the
Right Hon. Gentleman. the Houfe was called on the
prevent proceeding with a confiderable degree of
dount and lufpicion. The delicacy of the Right Hon.
Gentleman's fituation, he really expelled, would have
kept him from forcing. himfelf into fo fufpicious a
fervice. If he (Mr. Fox) had been connefted in
fuch Rrong habits of intimacy with any perfon found
guilty of foal charges, he (hould have taken great
care not to have fuffered it to have been in the power
of his fill and bittereft enemy to fay, You have
taken into your own hands the appointment of a
Committee, or of Commiffioners, to inveaigate the
charges of malverfation in office, al edged, and, in
Come initance+, admitted to have been praitifed by
your colleagues, and from which you yourfelf are
not altogether free." When he law the lame perfou
firri undertake the defence of the accufed, and then,
contrary to pratlice, and to every thing favourable
even to the appearance of an boneß inquiry, take on
himfelf in the grit inßance to name the Committee by
whom the inquiry was to be profecuted, he could not
look on the tranfaElion w ithout the ltrongefl fufpi-
don. He would ask the Houle, if Lord Melville
had had the nomination of the Commiffioners of Naval
Inquiry, did they believe that the Tenth Report
would ever have appea'ed ?—And if fo, was a con-
trary belief to be entettained, with regard to the pre-
fent Comtniffion, for examining abufes in which pro-
bably the Right Hon. Gerrleman was implicated ?
He hoped the Houfe would well weigh this point, and
reedit& that if ever there was a time in which they
were called on not to pay attention to the recomtheu-
' dation of a Minister, this was the time. It was not
in one department that •thtifes exilied. The Eleventh
Report proved that the Tri_afitry was not free from
imputation, and yet the Right Honourable Gentle.
man, himfelf at the head of the Treafury Board.
thought himfelf entitled to nominate the petfons who
were to be the put gators or condemnators of that
Board. If the Right Honourable Gentleman or the
Houle thought that this would &ably the country
they were grofsly deceived.
Lord CASTLEREAGH agced, if there was, in
the political annals of the country, a long political
life, more marked for its purity than that of Mr. Pitt r•
or, if there was at that moment a perfon in that
Houfe fo much entitled to public confidence ?—(4
laugh ) He called on the Houle to fupport its own
dignity, and not to allow inflnuations like thofethrown
out by the Lit fpeaker, to r pet ate on their decifion.
Mr GREY, without meaning to queßion the purity
of Mr. Pitt, thought hitnfell warranted in maintain-
ing, that it was too frequently the cafe, when the head
of ALlminidration was uncorrupted himfelf, that

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
remarked the difference of opinion which now pre.
vailed as to the mode of proceeding. It. WAS the
propofal of Mr. Whitbread, after mature confiders.
Lion, that a civil fuit againft Lord Melville and Mr.
Trotter &wild take place, and now that courfe was '
rejefted as nugatory. As to accompanying that mode
of proceeding with a Committee of farther enquiry,
he begged leave to fay, that he bad never Rated that
he was willing that to the powers of the Committee
thould be added that of inquiry into the affair of
L'rd Melville and Mr. Trotter, if a legal eon& of
proceeding was adopted.' He had only laid, that if
it appeared that any important point deferve to be
inquired into by the Committee, he had no objections
that it fhould be referred to it, but certainly no part
that was to be invettigated either by a civil or a penal
proceeding. The real quellion was now between
two modes of proceeding. The civil fuit was that
which promifed moa fuccefs, if indeed Lord Melville
had partaken with Mr. Trotter. As to a criminal
proceeding, he conceived that on Wednefday, the
loth, the Houfe had evinced a difinchnation to any
farther proceedings of vengeance, and he thought
that the deep wound already inflicted on that Noble
Lord, was punifhment fufficient, and in that opinion
the Houfe teemed on that occafion to concur.

Mr. WHITBREAD vindicated the courfe of pro-
ceedings he had purfued. He raid, that he had not
abandoned the mode of proceeding by fuit ; but on a
former night be would not make a motion to that
elle& becaufe he few that it was fei zed on as a fcreen
for Lord Melville. On the prefent °coition he voted
for the amendment (of Mr.. Banks) as the only way
left of obtaining public juftice, and following up the
Refolutions of the Houfi.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL explained what
he had Laid on a Conner night. He had never faid
that a proceeding in Exchequer would be ineffeetuaL
It would be attended with difficulty, but lefs difficulty
than even a proceeding in a Committee, or in a cri-
minal form. As to the Court of King's Bench im-
poring a fine adequate to the profits (if ,any) made
by Lord Melville, that could net be as in a criminal
proCeeding, there would be no means of afeertaining
the extent of them, and of fixing the fine according-
ly. He concluded with raying, that a civil fuit was
far more likely than a criminal one to obtain the ends
of jutlice.
Mr. TIERNEY denied that the inquifitorial
powers of the Houfe were fo limited as had been in-
finnated by the Attorney General. He thought the
Houle bad the higheß inquifitorial powers, and mna
adequate to the examination of aborts and offences,
and he thought the Houfe ought to have retained the
cafe in its own hands t but this being done, nothing
remained but the choice between two modes of pro-
ceeding. He denied that Lord M. had been punitked,
or that the Houfe bad carded any determination
to do nothing farther. The Houfe had refolved that
Lord M. bad been guilty of grofs violation of law,
and their honour and dignity required that they
fhould do fometbing to give effeit to thole Rdolu-
tions. He lamented that the Hottfe (hould part with
its high inquifitorial power. There was no prece-
dent of a Cabinet Minifier being found guilty of vip;
lation of law, being fufpefted of making ufe of tbe
public money, being referred to the Attorney Gene-
ral. He regretted it was to be dune now, but Tome.
thing was due to public juttice, to the expe&ation of
the nation, and that could alone be done now by the
Criminal Profecution, which, if it did no: procure
the rellitution of the money, would, in all probabi-
lity, obtain the fatisfaetion of the puoifirment of the
delinquents.
Mr. Serjeant BEST contended, that a profeeution
by Civil Suit could anfwer no good purple, but a
Criminal proceeding might feeure the puni(hment of
the offenders, who he laid were not yet punned._

The Houfe then divided. For the original Mo-
tion for a Civil Suit 223—For Mr. Bankes's Amend•
ment ta—Majority gs.
Strangers were not again admitted into the Gal-
lery, but we underfland that a divifion took place nn
a motion of Mr. Grey, that the Houfe fhould ad-
journ. Noes 240—Ayes 98—Majority 112.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
when out in the lobby, with the Majority upon the
requetted them not to go away, as there
would be probably another divifion.
Accordingly, upon his return to the Houfe, he
moved, " That the Report of the lift of the Commit-
tee upon the ballot for the limited enquiry into the
matters of the Tenth Report, be read."
Mr. FOX urged the latenefs of the hour (one
o'clodt) I and moved, " That this Houle do now
adjourn."
The Hoare divided upon Mr. Fox's Motion, when
there appeared, for it 98—N0e.21 240—Majority 142.
The CHANCELLOR of the 'EXCHEQIIER'S
motion being carried, the following lilt was then read
Over

Lord CAdtienogh Mr. St. Jaw
Mr. Wldtbreod Mr. Folic
Msfter oldie Rolls Mr. H. Lskellei
Mr. W. Windt's& Sir H. Mlldinay
Sir W. Stott Mr. S. Thoroteo
Mr. T. Growl& Mr. J. Fens
Mr. Ryder Lod Boyle
Lord George Catesdilk Mr. Cartwrlgbt
Lord Duni° Mr. Hawkins frowns
Lord W. Rolkft Mr. Gunning.
Mr. Leycefter
Mr. WHITBREAD hid, that there were Come
names upon the Committee to which he Rill cond.
nued to object. It was too late; however to urge his
objections ; but he gave notice, that to-morrow he
&mild move that the names to which he objeded
(hould be expunged from the Lift.

lILISH ♦FFAIRS.
Upen the motion of Mr. VANSITTART, copies
of fevers, letters which paired between the Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland, the Privy Council, and the.
Prifoners confined in Kilmainham Gaol, Dublin, were
ordered to be laid before the Houle. '
Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of
the Committee of the whole Houle upon the cape.
diency of Allowing the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland
to borrow money for the repair of the mail coach
road., which was agreed to, and a Bill ordertd cc-
_ •
cordingly.
Mr. LEE gave notice of a Motion tomorrow, for
leave to bring in a Bill for fupplying cities and towns
in Ireland with water.
The Committee of Ways and Means and Bo?ply
were deferred.
Adjourned at near two o'clock.

LONDON.

TUESDAY, APRIL 30.

PRICE OF STOOKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK:
Coafals, for Maley, 311 f—for May 311,*--Ouirtium al 3.

Ezacq. Bills, a prem.

Laa night, in the Houle of Commons, there were
Come very animated Difcuffions. The Sill was re
(paling the reading certain Papers moved for by
Sir A. S. HANSCOM), to vindicate himfelf from come
unfavourable inferences which the Eleventh Report
railed againit him. The Friends of Lord Sr. Vas
care confidered the produdion of thee papers rather
as an attack on that Nobleman, than a vindication of
Bir A. S. HAMMOND.

A fpirited Debate alfo took place on the Q2eflion
of !slinging a Civil Affirm agarna Lord Mst.vrica
and Mr. Taos- r se. It was moved 23 an amendment,
that the Attorney General flsould intlitute a Criminal
Profecution. The Amendment was however loft by
a Majority of 95.
The particulars of there interelling difcuffions will
be ken in our Parliamentary Report.
The following part of the Eleventh Report of the
Commilfioners of Naval Enquiry, formed the leading
point of the invelligation of yellerday

No. XXIIL—The Ezainination of the Right Hon. the Eart of ST.
VINCENT' K. B. taken upon Oath the ad of November, Igoe.

" It appears that between the 4th Odtober 1799, and 9thiApril
dor, Navy Bins, amounting to too,ocel. were iffued by the gavy
Board to for Naval Services ; of Which socol have
been repaid to the Treafurer of the Navy on 9th Odtober 1802,
and the renaaindersof the [inv.& cleared, and taken off, by an
oeder from the Lords Conunifficsocra of his Majcity's Treafury ;
0.0031. of which hun were advanced on the 9th April 1801, at
which time your Lordibip prefided at the Board of Ada**, ;
..V/ssi any part of this tradoctioo known to you ?
s' None whatever.

a. It appearing that the km of raped-was advanced by the Navy
land to Mars. T. Hammaracy and Co. between the 18th of
February and ant of April, Okra, for a Secret Service. Was the
Comptroller of the Navy authorised by you to perform any ferret
invite, for which this money was advanced, or bed Timmy know-
ledge of the truifseloo
■ He was not—nor have I any knowledge of the tranfadtion."
ST. VINCENT."

C. M. poi. EWAN LAW
JOHN FORD lizmay NictroLLs.
W1L.144410 MACIWWORIN

We hated yefterday the refignations reported to
have taken place in the Cabinet. A reconciliation
was however called among the parties yefterday
morning, and, for the prefent, things go on again as
before.

It teems toile very generally believed, that the late
affair of Lord Ms Lys Lt.e and Mr. TROTTER, laid the
foundation for the differences that have fince arifen.
It is well known, that Lord 811)1100TH and his
friends were unwilling to give their fupport to Lord
MaLvit.t.F., after the faels came to light that were
Rated in the Tenth Report of the Commiffinners
of Naval Enquiry. This gave rife to the idea of
having the battlers referred to a Seidl Committee,
as moved by Mr. PITT, which appearing to Lord
SIDHOOTH and his Friends to be a line of conduit
that might be followed without their being committed,
was acceded to by them. Mr. WHITBREAD'S mo-
•tion was however carried, and come of the parties
have in confequence found themfelves aukwardly
lituated.

Intelligence is received by the Mer...ca v vs, of 38
guns, Captain Par rurz, arrived at Plymouth on
Srinday lalt, from the fleet under the command of
Admiral Lord Gaaos tit, with difpatches for Go-
vernment, which were immediately forwarded to
London. On the 9th intl. the Macessrus fell ja with
the FUGAL!), of 38 guns, which a few days before
had feen the Toulon fleet patting the Strait of Gi
braltar : it confifteci of eleven fail of the line and
(even frigates, having on board to,obo troops; their
dellination unknown; but, the Captain of the Fla,
asap, apprehenfive that it might be Ireland, made
the heft of his way thither with this intelligeneeoer
The 11sowtr, of 74 guns, and a frigate, were daddy
following the French fleet, to dikover, if po*k,
whither they wore bound.

By private letters from Vienna we learn, that the
Firft Minifter, Count Louis de Coaxal-ate, will re-
pair in perfon to Milan, in order to concert with Bo-
lIPAILTE a fatisfaftory arrangement of the common
Frontier of the Auftrian and French domain in Italy.
tbis Diplomatift is alfo charged with the important
and delicate million of adjufting the grievances which
his Auftrian Majefty complains of, with regard to
the 'kingdom of Italy.
Ribbcns of the Legion of Honour have been fent
to Naples and Litton. The Archdukes Awl-wows,
and Rama have received the Order of the Golden
Fleece, which prevents them from accepting any other
Order. Much amiofity is excited in the diplomatic
world, upon the point whether the Kiri° of SPAIN,
and the Panics of PEACII, will wear the Order of the
Legion of Honour.

The Court of Prufria has difpatched PI. HunISOLDt
beothirto* the Celebrated traveller, and now its re-
prefentative Rime, to affill at 'the Cormiation of
BCIAPIALTa at Maio.

This morning we received French jomstals to the
sob init. frnin,which we have made the following

citraas :
' Pavel Aup L ao.-I.ettgts imp Madrid =ounce
. 1.

that the King of Spain has acknowledged his
ty the Emperor as King of Italy.
LimNs, APRIL t6.—Their Majeflies fct nut tl.i<
morning, at fever, o'clock, attended by a brilliat,t
fuite, and a numerous croud of the inhabitants, wlir,
during their refidence here, teem never to have quit •
ed the court of their Palace.

Gswoa, APRIL 6.—lt is alerted that the fquadron
under Admiral NELSON, has gone to Malta, to land
the lick and procure a Cupply of provifions.
CHAMBERS, APRIL ,I7.—Their Majefties who were
expected with fo lively impatience by the inhabitants
of our mountains, arrived here yerierday, at eight au
the evening. This morning at fir, the Emperor got
on horfeback and vifized our environs and eftabilits.
ments. At ten he again left his palace to jape& the
arfenal, and at eleven gave an audience to General;
Moeiroi, who commands the divifion, and to vari.
ous other perfonages and public bodies. At eight in
the evening their Majefties were prefent at a fete pre-
pared in the grand theatre.
flactis, Aran. 6.—The regifters of the votes
were this day doled here, and throughout the whole
Republic : the majority have voted for accepting the
new 'conflitutiod. The Legiflative Body this day
held he fiat fitting of the Spring Seffion, in which it
nominated the twelve orators of the Seffion.
ALRIANDRITTA, MARCH have received
intelligence that the Ruffians have obtained, fence
their defeat, a truce of four months with the Perfians;
when this period is expired, Feth Ali Khan, who has
colleelecl the final army ever Ceen in that country,will
march in perfon againft the enemies of his States.
Some Ruffian agents eftablithed in the ports of the
Levant made no befitation to advance that Ruffia
propofed feizing the fineft provinces of Perfia, in con-
fcqucnce of a plan conceived in 1790 by CATHARIHR
11. Bin feveral attempts have already failed, and
every thing gives reaftm to believe that the prelim
one will not ba attended with better fuceefs. The
Ruffian officers achawledge that they would rather
Meet in the field a hundred thoufaqlTuik; than fifty
thoufand Perfians.

Arl4l.lN. APRIL 26.

This 414111 belt%the quarterly affeathly of the Cop
poratiqa of the city of .PoWio. 4 Oalttiter addrefs to
the Catholic Poi** was apted to. It is thought
that the exam* *las* by this City and by attic-
isilleN will be eery voailluely followed.

the Enact eorroption trifled in the fubordinate
pare. He could not help remarking the fire with
'which the Noble Lord (Calllereagh) retiazd, what
be termed, infinuations, and yet the calninefs with
which he fubmitted to dire@ charges. He particu-
larly alluded to an inftance of this torture, where the
Noble Lord exprcffed hinifelf in moll indignant terms
againft an infinuation, as he termed it, thrown out by
an Honourable Gentleman, whom he (Mr. Grey)
did not then fee in his place (Mr. Porter), regaling
on the India Houfe of Commons ; but, when Mr.
Fofter denied that he had made any infinuation,
and aBually charged that money had been paid to
procure votes for the Union, and that almoft every
Irifh Member who fapported it had been moll grfsly
corrupted, the Noble Lord who had been fo indig-
nant at the fuppofed infinuation, fat filently under
' the dire@ charge.
Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, and
Mr. Pitt and the Attorney and Solicitor General were
allowed to prepare and bring in the fame.
LORD MILVILLIG
Mr. SPENCER STANHOPE rofe to move that
the'Attorney General be inftrufled to commence a
profecution againft Lord Melville and Mr. Trotter
for afeertaining and recovering far the ufe of the
public the profits arifing from filch monies as had
come into their hands for naval fervices tince January
1786. In doing fo the Honourable Member expreff-
ed a hope that Lord Melville would clear himfelf
from any participation in the tranfaition. He hated
that he had voted in favour of Lord Melville on the
previous divifions, being an enemy to that cruel fyf.
tem of cutting of a man's bead and trying him af-
terwards ; and that he thought an inveftigation in
Exchequer the only fair mode of bringing the quell
Con to an iffue. He concluded by moving, as be
Paid the Hon. Gentleman at the other fide of the
Houfe had relinquifhed it— .
That the Attorney General be &rated to take luck Reps as
to Win ion ken by law the belt, for the purpofe of recover-
ing fueh films date public money u might be due to the pubile
by Vilkount Melville and Mr. "Frottsr, particularly that kW-
quent to the rQ of January, tin.
Sir ROBERT BUXTON feconded the motiott.—
Owing to indifpnfition he had not had anopportuni-
ty of voting on the 6rft night when the queftion was
agitated, though he thought lie fhould have voted
with the majority, as he conlidered the cafe to be
very bad againfl the Noble Lord.
Mr. BANKS regretted that the motion bad been
made. He was convinced had an opportunity been
afforded that Houfe of reviling their vote of tall night
the refult would have been different, and that many
Hon. Gentlemen now few the propriety of enlarging
the powers of the Committee. As, however, the mo-
tion had been made, it mull be difpofed of in Come
Shape other. fcl..titt difficulties lay in the way of
a decifion on the fubjedt in a Civil Court. The op-
portunity of demurring—the doubt how far profit on
money not entrufted to the parties for the fake of
gain could be fued for—the mixture of the pro-
perty, and the intricacy and perplexed Rate of the
accounts, left little expectation of a favourable iffue.
He therefore fubmitted that a profecution of a cri-
minal nature on the apparent part of the cafe for vio
• lation of an A@ of Parliament and grofa breach of
duty, would be a courfe more expeditious, lefs uncer-
tain, more coofiftent with the dignity and char-after
of that Houfe, and more conformable to the willies
of the country than any ation of a pecuniary nature
could be. There was nothing in this, too, which
precluded them from afterwards going into a civil
fuit. He therefore propofed, as an amendment—
', That the Atrorney-General be ineruded to pro.
fecute Lord Melville and Mr. Trotter for the fetid
offence."
Mr. WINDHAM thought the only way would be
to go into the general Committee, and that they
Should enquire whether any cafe ought to be refer.
' red to the Law Officen ? Inflead, therefore, of let-
ting the two proceedings go on at the fame time, it
) would in his opinion be the better way to finith one
enquiry, and fee whether the other proceedings were
neceffary or no'.
The MASTER of the ROLLS infifted, that the
refignation of Lord M. wai in fait, though not in
form, punilionent; that the Hon& was not entitled
- to punt& irfell, and then to go into a criminal court
for the fame write, but that a civil ailion was now
the only remedy.
Dr. LAWRENCE contended, that the Mau-
tions of the Houle only went to one branch of the
charge, namely, the violation of the law, which
had been admitted, and could not preclude an in-
quiry into the' participation in the peculation, which
' , was punillable, both in the civil and criminal point
of view.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought the recovery of
the money was a paltry, inconfiderable objeft, when
compared with that of punifhing the offenders. He
did not know that a criminal convi6ion would in-
demnify them for a civil aaion afterwards for the
recovery of thefe profits.
Mr, FOX Paid lit objea was, that Lord Melville
L.4'• Should in Come way or other be profecuted, and in
Some way or other be punilhed. At prefent he • had
4 • only to get for his Conftituents and the Public the
bell redreli he could. He confidered the gueßion
of law fo clear that he was not afraid of letting itgo
i to a trial ; but he preferred a criminal profecutson to
a civil alion.
fa Mr. T. GRENVILLE thought the refolutions
which the Houk had entered into thould rather be fol.
' lowed up by a criminal procefs, than by a civil aOioo,
merely fur the purpofe of recovering the money.
Mr. SHERIDAN took notice of the miftake in
which it appeared to him that, the mover bad fallen;
he ha 4 laid that he did not believe that Lord Mel.
vile. bad participated with Mr. Trotter, (and ccr.
urnly there was no evidence of fuch participation),
and yet he fpoke of his being compellable to refund
by a civil aftion. If he had not participated, he did
not fee how he had became liable to refund. If he
was innocent of any corrupt participation, and he
would again repeat that there was at prefent nothing
like evidence of the fait, then he thought a civil ac.
ti,in ought not to be brought. If he were guilty, a
criminal profecution would as completely anfwer die
ends of juftice ; but in either cafes there mull be pro.
sauced fueh evidence as the Commielopers never had,
r, the corrupt inception which alone would
conaitnte the criagnality.
Mr. WILBERFORCE fnpported the criminal
profeeotion, principally becaufe the lawyers had de.
dared that there would be very little chance in a
vii aaion, and he thought in Tome Shape or other the
•
public were entitled to palm