Star.
London, England, 1814-07-20 00:00:00

THE CLERGY.

Sr E. BRYDGES moved for various papers and
returns relative to the amount of the Revenue in the
bands of the Commissioners for distributing Queen
Anne's Bounty ; also the Parliamentary Grants for
the same purpose ; and accounts of all the Livings
in England and Wales, with the annual value of each
to the latest period that the same can be made out.—
This was a motion more enlarged than one previously
made by the Hon. Barone t on the same subject.
LO RD COCH RANE.
Lord EBRINGTON said, he rose to make the
motion of which he had given notice ; but before he
proceeded he would beg leave to read to the House a
letter he had received from Lord Cochrane. It was
to the following purport : _

_
" King's Bench, July 17.
My Lean—Although I claim no right to interfere with the
Parliamentary conduct of any Member, or to enquire into the
motives for any motion he may think proper to make, yet I owe
ii to myself to protest against that motion of which your Lord-
ship has given notice, as I conceive flirt it bas a tendency to hrlng
down upon me greater grief than I should otherwi,e experience ;
r as I did not expect to be treated by your Lordship on any ground
that bears reference to my past services. However erroneous may
be the estimateof a late transaction In the minds of many Mem-
bers, l'eannot consent that any service of mine should be prosti-
tuted to protect me from punishmetr. If guilty, I deserve the
punishment to which the law has sentenced me; If innocent, Ito
part of the sentence ought to be inflicted. If, therefore, your
Lordship still persists in the motion of which you have given no-
th.e, l• hope and trust you will do me the justice of reading this
letter to the House."

Having thus read this letter from Lord Cochrane,
it brciirne unnecessary for him (Lord Ebrington) to
disclaim having had any private intercourse with that
noble Lord on the subject. He knew him only as a
member of that House, during the time he had a seat
in it, and as a gallant officer, to whom his country
had, on many occasions, been highly indebted for his
services. In that point of view he had first conceived
the idea of bringing forward his motion; and not.
withstanding the noble Lord's letter he did not feel
himself at liberty to forego Ins original intention. He
should endeavour as much as possible to avoid mix-
ing this subject with that which had been determined
on a lornier night. The House had then ..ecided on
that question, and it was not his wish to bring it
tOrward again, by alluding either to his guilt or his
innocence. He begged to call the attention of the
House to that particular part of the sentence which
was the main object of his motion. He thought the

punishment of the pillory was in general malt "lad.
because it constituted the pnprilat:e at once the Judges
and executioners, and the result had ofien tented
to be not less titan a cruel death. 'll4 was contrary
end remnant to the mild, generous, and liberal 'pi.
tit of dreßritish laws, which, for certain crimes of the
nrlttri was
eCOrstar;
of death,
but never.
iiingfleincdtatdai
tdhiartecittlys.h.otluteupb4onnishifm..tienlit
u
dseitentretnicice
nishm executionetlt wahithle.wssaisrloefrtnitoter
to be a punishment almost etiiiteiy con,fined.t9.o4,
to be inflicted on only certain offences, and it teeniest
metffspolts. He had made enquiries into the subject,
that in all the punishments of this kind which had
been inflicted throughout the kingdom during en e
years, there had Anit• been two pererns sentedeeJ to
the pillory, except in the metmpoiis. Such being the
case, who-could have supposed that a Conn of Jute
lice, even in the capital, would, for such an offtnce„
have sentenced to the pillory such a man ? Why so
far disgrace and degrade a noble and gallant officer,
who, in thecourse.of many brave Ad brilliant achieve.
I menu; in fulfilling the arduous duties of his pecifes,
sion, had 'displayed the most distinguished. covens
and talents, iodise his Carens of &AI, as a naval or.
her, had /font billing' the: highest bower by many
brilliant exploit* in the service' and defence of:bis
King and country ? His Lordship then ailvertrd to
the action in which Lord Coclirane, in the Speedy
'sloop of 14 guns, took the El D'Gamae a Spanish
frigate of 38 guns, which he looked upon to be es
gallant an achievement as had ever been performed.
His Lordship then moved that the thanks nt that
House, voted to Lord Gambier, &c. for the destruce
tion of the ships in Basque Roads, in which were 'n-
eluded thanks to Lord Cochrane for having ao brave.
ly and so skilfully conducted the whole, ehould he
read. Thishaving been done, his Lordship continued:
Such was the tribute paid to the noble Lord (Cods-
rane) at that time; and he (Lord Ebrington) had
always understood, that, as a further mark of tavosti
and remuneration of his gallant strvices, he had atter-
wards been created a Knight of ,the Bath. He cheek
took occasion to draw the attention of the House to
the great inequality of punishment which had bits
heaped on the head of Lord Code ane more thaceoe
any of the other persons who had been tri.d on the
same indictment and sentenced ter the 'Jame oTedce.
When the Noble Lord was struck out tif the envy
list, when he was shorn of the hannurs of kat ehthood,
and stripped of his plumes end of his rank, could err
would any impartial man say that esynti eed
no more, had been meted out to hint ? W
man say that Lord Cochrane was not far m ne severe.
ly punished than either Mr. Butt or LS rciag-r ? Theis
persons when the period of their c,iitiiiement was
over, would return to their original ols-curity, and by
changing their names, it they thought fir,naight with
perfect ease regain their former settle!: in sacicty; He
then contrasted this very sentence on Lord Cochrane
with that which had been some time aeo passed on a
noble Marquis for seducing sailors to quilt his Majes-
ty's service to enter on lewd his own yacht. Tuis of.
fence was surely as great a one as that which Lord
Cochrane had been guilty ef ; hut what v..a, that sen-
tence of the Noble Me•qu:s ? Why, four mlntiis ins.
prisonment, and a fine, which, consider ng the situa-
tion of the party, could not be called a 1..rg.• hire.--
However, when the period of impillollMet•t WAS over
Filler* was an end of the punishment. 'the Merle Mar-
quis Was restored to his rank; and all the other c,.m.
forts of life which he enjoyid before. Lord Coch-
rane, on the contrary, after iii, fine had been paid, and
the period of imprisonment was ended, seas deprived
of his rank in the navy, and if the honour of being a
Knight of the Bath, all si hich he kid previously gain.
ed by his exertions in the service of his country. He
must therefore ask the House, was this an equal mea-
sure of English justice? The N able Lord ciliclad-
ed by observing, that he had nothing more with which
to trouble the House, and trusted, that he hid ad-
hered to the intention he had expressed at the com-
mencement of his speech, of keeping clear of t,e pies.
lion of the guilt or of the innocence of Lord COC:it
Even those who might be inclined to think him guil-
ty, he hoped, would concur in deprecating tit,
tion of the ignominious punishment of th • puiory.—
The Noble Lord then moved, that an liumhie address
be presented to the Prince Regent, Vert lie woual be
graciously pleased, on account oh the 1 emer
dtstin-
guised services of le rd Cochrane, to remit that p tat
of the sentence that wtut to infl.:t the punislausent of
the pillory.
Lord NUGENT, cnncurring in every thing which
had he, n uttered by his NAle Friend, sh arid give
his.cord'al support to the maion. He also felt the
propriety of abstaining from any allusion to that p• tat
en which the House had come to a decision ; namely
the Noble Lord's guilt. He should, how,ver, von-
ble the House with a few woods on the great chat AC.
ter tit Lord Cochrane. The evidence to this beet,
which had been given on the trial, was nit that
pour and whining evidence given on ordinary occa-
sions of persons who had known a defendant many
years, and never knew any thing against him till the
present time. For the character ul Lord Cochrane,
we were to look to the proudest pages o t!.e British
history, witere he stands distinguished iu the fie st
rank in the country's service. Such Wag the man ter
whom a plea was this night offered, and whose fair
character was now so cruelly stained. He felt en-
tirely with his Noble Friend who had moved tee Ad-
dress respecting the nature of the puni ini.lit, Awl
the comparative so/elite of it beyond_ what would be
felt by the other persons convicted ; and he would
add, that all those who had any doubts the other
night as to the innocence of the Noble Lind, were
bound to vote for the minion of to 'sight. Sup?ose
a soldier Were detected in defrauding his stir i
ficer, in connection with his Captain; that ea:, sir old
hung the man to the halbert was to be ret:. cre..!, fait
he doubted whether they would flog the Captann If
they did, he would only s iy, that they would com-
mit a gross act of injustice. As to the,pitlory, such
punishment upon a great man becomes a savage and
cruel torture, by exciting in the public mind every
base feeling, argrenceuregitig the worst and most
reprehensible paisians. He would not go the length
aowtne dv ipnedriscoantai von in
olinseo'uninccendl
of agicting with what the Noble Lord hid said in his
iunitolsahtadlipkri ptliteingsenthiteileceti;
but when he saw a person standing forward in that
House, and asserting that a part of the evidence had
been suppressed, and mentioning ether circurnstencLs
which bore hardly upon him, 'At:d prevented the pos.
sibility of his offering all that could hAte beau Mi.

i

. vaned in-his behalf...when helho.bn4 the fhisleLned 'of the ere.% the House should recollect the person
making the most solemn assev! : tons 1., the fete of on ve.ose u taunt the appeal was m ode, and whether
• Goo and the coUntre, in it tie ' ..ri net hid a ;roper he had net hilien • from the eminence on which he
.opportuttity of defending himself, and enure sting the Smits by his off, PM. lithe pillory might to he abo-
House
to go into a Committee, lie ee r toot, :tett he' Wird,' let the Perliement of England abolish it ; but
• felt still,. that the House were net justifi ci i i refilling , not address the Crown to set aside the punishment in
that Committee. As to the Noble teed ! e *tercet? favour of en iedividttal.
occ leo. s to mit Hoese, *sides, Gentlemen should
Knew him, and on many
it !recollect that there was another House of Perlia-
had hen his fortune to J ffer fr en hint ; but he; mente and thti; 'lie lase of England cannot be al.
thought that it was his beld a' d neat i feeling which , weed by the House et Commons alone. The Learned,
led olten•made him stand ftirward there, though; Cee,teeisti then • proceeded to .comment on other
ealten not very discteetly, :std he was of opinion th it ati evations made by Lent Cochrane relative to
there was SW men in that House, however he might tee complaitit of his Lnicldtip that he could not
'differ from that No Lord in political opinion, who get a new trial, because all the defendants were not
would not put his hand on his heart and say, that he in e.truri. go considered the answer of the Judge to
hegretted that pelt of the sentence whidt formed the he Wise and legal, ehen he informed Lord Cochrane
'Object of the metion. *et he had stated no grounds to authorise the grant-
. The b 01.10.1 OR GENERAL disclaimed all ing •4 the rule. It was a rule founded in leer and
personality or prejudice towards Lord Cochrane, nor wisdom, any aberration from which would lead to
had he any reason of any sort, private or otherwise, the most serious consequences; as every criminal
to influence Lifts in the vote he should oive, beyond would thenceforward conceive he had nothing to do,
iris duty as a Member of Parliament. But his duty when convicted, but to try the experiment of a new
dictated to him to give his decided negative to the trial. On the whole,. he was of opinion that that
oaten. The Noble Lord had beenitlPP 'sed to be House was not the proper jurisdiction, if he might so
a victim to polltical pers. cutione hut never was any say, to execute judgment on the subject now before
opinion hss founded. Nobody lamented more sin- it, and he would add, that he neither tholteht it wise,
cerely than himself, that Uman of his Noble birth, right, car eveu cenvitutienal, for them to interfere in
who hid perlbented such exploits in s profession which favour of the Noble Lord. But he was mire that
destroys, even in ignoble minds, all sordid motives; whether the punishment were or were net Wiped,
that a man, by the ctimmiseien of a crime so sordid any thing which he had deemed it his duty to sae en
as this, shoeld have fallen from his high raok, and this occasion would not weigh as one feather with
have made .himself the subject of an ignominious pu. those who could advise the Crown to remit it. The
nisement, was much to be depleted ; • but he woteld Learned Gentleman concluded with repeating that
not say that he was more an object for the interfe. all the arguments he had advanced, had no other ob.
rence of that House than any of the other delin. jest than to convince the House, that there was no.
quenis. There was no excuse or palliation on the thing in Lord Cochrane's case which ought to call
part o: his Lordship for the commission of a fraud for their interference. He should therefore vote
which, it true, corhbined meanness and infamy. The against the motion for the Address.
comparison of the Noble Lerd, who had quoted a Mr. BARHAM disapproved of the speech of the
suppesiteeus case of a soldier and his Captain, in re- Sorcitor•General, which he thought unnecessarily re-
probation of the sentence, was most extraordinary. vere. The tracing of De &tenger to Lord Coch-
But why should not the superior officer be brought to rane's house, did not seem fully proved. It was not
ignominious punishment, if he deserved it, as well as clear that Lord Cochrane saw De Berenger's dress,
ere common soldier ? Only because the military law who might have been meted with his great. coat.—
did not adMit of it. But in a case of fraud, tried by It was not sufficiently proved that Lord Cochrane saw
the civil lam, would any man say that the punish- him in the dress described. He (Mr. Barham) had
ment of the meanest private, or the officer of the felt an insurmountable desire to go and see Lord
highest rank, ought to be different, or that while the Cochrane atter what had passed; and he could sets,
lamer was punished, the latter should be allowed honestly that hebelieved in his innocence, when he went
to temper with mercy ? The one would be blamed, to impart to his Lordship his opinion respecting his
because his situation andrank ought tohave placed him case. When he told him that be wished to ask two or
above the temptation of committing such a crime ; three questions, Lord Cochrane answered that nobody
while the other might be instigated by povertyorother 'could oblige him more than by doing so. That was
reasons, which would render him an object of pity.— his first and only acquaintanceship with Lord Coch-
The opinions should rather operate the other way, or nine ; and the opinions he formed he should retain as
at least, that if mercy be extended by the Crown, long as he lived. He concluded by moving an amend-
the Noble Lord has TIO greater right to it than any menu to omit the reasons for remitting part of the
one of the individuals in the same situation as him- sentence, which, he thought, would give more means
-self. The Noble Lord, in his Address to the liciuse, to Members, who had shades of difference in their
had asserted, that a part of his evidence had been opinions, to give their votes to the address.
seppresod. He was sorry to be called upon to state, Mr. WROTTESLEY having taken some part in
that it was his duty, as an individual Member of Par- the matter previously, wished to explain himself. He
Lament, and en Offic e of the Court, to declare, was not satisfied with what Lord Cochrane had said
most solemnly, that he had endeavoured, as much as respecting the Judge having stated what was not in
possible, to inform himself on the subject, by reading evidence; particulatly as it regarded De Berenger's
attentively all that had transpired, both as evidence, appearance and dress. An attentive re-perusal of the
and the comments of the Noble Judge who summed trial had confirmed his opinion of Lord Cochrane's
it up ; and he would declare before Goo and die conduct. Up to the time oi De Berenger's quitting
!House, that' if he had been on the Jury, he could the posechase at Dartford, every witness proved the
not, in his conscience, have returned any other verdict chess.' The waterman did not swear to the star, but
than that which was given, even if the Noble Lord the .hackney-coachmendWore to the red coat when De
had been his brother. The evidence was in his mind Berenger went to his Lordship's house. Lord Code.
most clear and convincing. -When he found De Be- rane rather exaggerated in hisremat ks on theevidence.
renger traced into the house of Lord Cochrane, with The Honourable Member made various observations
the coat of imposit:un on his back, going there at the on the evidence produced in Court ; and said that had
chance of, and hazard of meeting his Lordship, no- he been upon the Jury, he could have done nothing
thing should persuade him that Lord Cochrane had else than what the Jury had done ; namely, to give a
not been povy to the purpose of his --visit, and the verdict against Lord Cochrane. As to the present
object it had to answer. If this had not been the motion, the case on which it was founded was not
case lei's Lordship's house would have been the last such as to jestify the House in intending by way of
place in the world to which he would have gone with an address. .
that coat on his back. Besides, belied been correctly Lord A. HAMILTON thought it impossible not
traced from Dover, and proved by a series of wit- to decide for innocence, where guilt was not corn
messes to have been dressed in the very same dress in pletely preyed : he respected the opinions of those at
which he goes to Lord Cochrane's. The most im- the same time who thought that the record of the
portant fact therefore arose out of this circumstance. verdict was sufficient. But things were very strong
He had been traced into the coach with this coat on on the other side. The point of Lord Cochrane's
his back, and by mere accident his identity was indu. seeing De Berenger in his dress was not perfectly
bitably proved ; for the coachman, in answer to the made out. 'He believed Lord Cochrane incapable
inorrogatories, said, that although he could not re- of making such affidavits as he had made, falsely ;
member the dress of every person who got into his and could net do him the injustice of even giving a
coach, 'yet he remembered his, because his coat was silent vote. .
red. For what but to escape detection would De Mr. M. A. TAYLOR.—A Court of Justice was
Be, diger have put himself under the protection of the only place where innocence or guilt could, be de.
Lord Cochrane, and endeavour to find a place of re- cided. It was painful to give a vote against one'
.fitge in his ship ? And it was impossible for the who had performed great naval deeds; but that
Noble Lord to have seen him in this situation with- House ought nut to stretch its power beyond consti-
'out having been privy to the transaction. The Jury tutional limits. • When it did so, the consequences
Lid been told these facts by the Noble Judge; but were always mischievous. If the verdict of a jury
be lett them to consider whether from these facts they was not respected, into what a labyrinth would they
could or could ion trace the connection. But there not plunge theinselves ? Mercy was seated in the
were other gniunda why the Noble Lord (Cochrane) breast of the Crown ; and to that quarter the appli-
was not entitled to the protection of the House: be cation should be made. Grating as the idea of the
bad attempted to mislead the House by misrepresen- pillory was, remission should be sought for where the
sing the transaction ; for if the Noble Lord's state- constitution placed the power of remission.
went were well foueded, a gang of conspirators must Mr. C. W. W YNNE asserted, that there was no
have been presumed to exist to the Jury, and all who prerogative of the Crown with which the House
appeared in evidence against him, whose solemn oaths might not interfere by way of advice. The only
would be invalidated by a full credence in this state. questicn was as to the wisdom of the interference.—
ment. It was therefore necessary, when talking of Lord flue interference ougia not to be trifling or frequent ;
Cochrane's oath, to recollect that these persons were but the privilege ought not to be shorn away. (Hear,
on their oaths also. When he SAW the names of men hear.) It was the duty of that House, on some oc.
of the first talent at the bar, men who, he was sure, casions, to advise the remission of particular punish.
I
if political persecutions could exist, would not lend ments. The Commons were the Great Council, the
themselves to its influence, even from party spleen, Ministers only the Privy Council of the State. The
accused of improper conduct, he could not restrain particular merits of the present case gave room for
Iris indignation. The solicitors of Lord Cochrane different opinions. It was said, that De Berenger
were as honoutable men as any in the profession ;. and might have changed his coat in the coach ; but then
even those were supposed by Lord Cochrane to have the coachman's evidence was against that. De Be.!
been guilty of a gross dereliction of duty. The tenger must then have taken clothes with him, in
Noble Lord had complained of an omission in the which he could not appear in London. This
brief; but he had been informed that that brief was matter was decided by a jury on their oaths. As to
drawn up from the instructions of his Lordship him- that being decisive with the House, there were two
self ; it was teed by the Noble Lord . himself— precedents, Walsh's and another ; but there the case
(Hear, hear,)—tor his approbation. The examina- was undoubted. He was not disposed to quarrel with
Lions of his tour servants were read to him, and a the trial or sentence. Though he regretted the latter,
part of one of these examinations was corrected by he did not wish a vote which would inculpate the
the Noble Lord himself, and yet the Noble Lord gets Judge and Jury. But were not the services of Lord
up in his place, and says he was careless about this Cochrane such as to justify the House in interfering ?
evidence. Indeed the whole of the circurestances He was not in favour of the amendment ;—but ap-
arising from the Noble Lord's conduct, were such as proved of the address, as stating distinctly the
to prevent the Crown from extending the mercy to grounds of the application. It had been said, that
Lim that was solicited, if the other delinquents were the higher the rank, the greater the crime. Yet in
to stiller thefull sentence of the law. When those cases of treason, for instance, a Peer was punished
who telt for the situation of the Noble Lord, call for 1 less ignominiously than an inferior person. There was
this extraordinary interference with the prerogative 1 a case of a Captain in the Navy being seateoced to

the 01161 for fraud, and of the sentence being re-'
mitted. The services of Lord'Cochrane were not to
be all washed away by. this offence, as though they ,
had never been performed. It would be hard indeed,
if, because he had previously merited :public gratitittte,
he should on that account be the more severely visited.
Mr. HURST denied that the motion now before
the House interfered in the smallest. degree with the
Royal Prerogative—it merely pledged the House to
address the Prince Regent, for the purpose of pro-
curing pardon or remission of the ignominious part
Of Lord Cochrane's sentence. He thought the ob-
servations of the Learned Gentleman (the Solicitor-
General) went to aggravate the case unnecessarily.
and were a little too violent. But whatever the
Learned Gentleman's view of the subject might be,
he (Mr. Hurst) could state that the public feeling
was pronounced strongly against the infliction of the
pillory on Lord Cochrane—a punishment which every
rank of society seemed to think ought to have been
spired. He would not utter any expression in the
slightest degree disrespectful to the Judges—he re-
vetenced them —still, however, they were but men,
and might have gone beyond what the occasion
called fur. Now, if the public and the House felt
that they had dime so, it was their dity to exercise
the functions with which the Conatituti in vested them,
for th • purpose of rectifying the error. One of those
functions enabled them, when a sentence was not
commensurate w ith the crime, to call upon the Crown
to extend ita prerogative of mercy to the person con-
victed. This was a•caie in which he thought they
ought to indulge the public feeling by an Address to
the Throne.

tended. It was riot (rods the iligheest doubt being
entertained, either of the gush of 41se parties, or the
propriety of the sentence. The sentence was another
th.m what the bench owed it to the 4 the
country to pronounte ; but the Croy/64h .ving take*
into its consideration the unfreqisency of such cransii,
so little known among Englishmen, hoped, that this
warning would he sufficient to deter other pets ass
from the commission of similar offences. The object
of punishment was the prevention of crimes, and as
this was a crime which had so rarely occurred, it
conceived that it wets not necessary to i! 'het the whole
of the sentence. It WAS necessary to state the grounds
upon which mercy WAS extended, in order to pre.
vent any pc:‘-erted notions of the grounds of it being
conceived.

• Sir FRANCIS BURDETT said, that if the
Noble Lord had been pleased to communicate the
information with which he concluded his speech, at
an earlier period, it would hive saved the Noble
Lord ( Ebi ington )f rom the trouble of making his aro•
non, and himself ( Laid C.) from the necessity of a long
speech.—He should now consider t e u' e i in there
points of view. First, as it regarded the public pi--
secondly, as it regarded the admiaistratinii of justice;
and thirdly-, as it regarded the Nnhle Lord. Licked,
as to the last point, the Noble Lord himself viewed
the m aver with perfect indifference. The Noble
Lord relied entirely on his innocence, and merely
contended for his character. He b uieveil tile Noble
.Lord to be innncent, and th retort to him this part
of the question had lbst its interest. It, however.
retained great interest, as far as it respected the
public. and thst profession which the N hle Lord
had so long adorned. The Honotirable and LAM.
ed Gentleman (the Solicitor-General) had used
many arguments to shake the opinsins of Members
as to the innocence of Lord Cochrane. It did ap.
pear to him, however, that as being ti-licitor.G_ ne.
ral, he could not be considered alto:tether spa along
as an independent Member, but must, in some de-
gree, be coosidered as an advocate on the part of
the Crown. Being in this situation towards the
f Crown, he came forward in the House with the au.
%hark), of a date, to state his opinion on the case;
and he also gave evidence himself as to matters
of which the . House had never before heard.—
He had stated that Lord Cochrane had not bt.-en neg-
lig.mt about his defence, and that there had been no
want of ability in the conduct of it. He, for his part,
always conceived, that in consequence of the public...
tions from the' Stock Exchange Committee, Lord
Cochrane, was, in fact, prejudged before he was put
upon his trial ; and that he was defended by Counsel
who were themselves under the same impression that
had been made on the public mind. His statement,
on his sipplication for a new trial, had great weight
with the public, and chat was a circumstance which
proved pretty plainly that a better statement might
have been made for him at the trial. Knowing Lord
Cochrane, as he did, he could well believe that, with
his head teeming with other things, the brief might
have been read to him without his giving it much
attention. He thought that it was impossible that
Lord Cochrane, who had published an affidavit that
Berenger came to him in a green coat, should have
consented that it should be stated in the brief that he
was in red. Indeed, legal instruments were generally
drawn up in such a manner that few Gentlemen not of
the profesup of the law perfectly understood them.
He was suKothat he had often signed legal instruments
that he did not rightly understand, on the faith of the
explanation that was given to him. was said that
the trial was now to be seen by every body ; but ne
believed the short-hand writer had susnaitted it to the
Judge who tried it for his revisal, /mime it was pub.
lished. He believed that the charge of the Judge had
been revised and corrected by himself, and that he
had, in one instance, introduced the word if, which
was known to be a great peace.makt r. He did not
see what evidence there was of Lord Cochrane seeing
lle B.rengtr in a red coat, except the evidence of
Crane, the hackney coachman, who swore that he en.
tered the house in red. This man, however. wag
a man of the worst of characters, and might well
be supposed to be influenced by the hope of receiving
two hundred and fifty pounds from the Stock Ex.
change. As to the evidence of Shilling, that man
had been heard to say, that he would swear fur who.
ever paid slim best. He conceived that the circuits.
stances against Lord Cochrane were not so strong but
that his character should have been weighed against
them, to determine as to the probability of his being
guilty of the meanness imputed to him. As so ten
tenderness which the Noble Lord sup td him so
have expressed when speaking of this offence, he had
only then been speaking of it in a legal point of view.
He had, therefore, considered, that as merely a mis-
demeanour, it should not meet with a punishment as
severe as those offences which the law calls crimes.—
A thing might be very mean, and very uoworthy of
a gentleman or a man of honour, and yet be no crime*
at law. He was surprised to hear the grounds upon
which the Noble Lord had stated the Crown to have
aimed on this occasion. It appeared that frauds at the
Stock Exchange were so unfrepwin, tonere, did things
so little known among Englishmen, that it was hoped
no other instance would ever occur, and dolt an sum.
ple was unnecessary. Now if he were fu maw those
grounds in the lobby, he believed that every one would
laugh in his face. They would not suppose frauds
in the Stock Exvhange to be quite so %infrequent and
so rare as the Noble Lord supposed. He felt, how-
ever, obliged to the Noble Lord for the advice he bad
given- to the Crown on this oce +siva, not for the mks
of Lord Cochrane, who despised tit at part of the sen-
tence, but for the sake of the public, and of that gal-
lant profession of which he was an ornament.
The AT FORNEY-GENERAL said, that there
were tunes in which the lion. Baronet thought pro-
per to praise the trial by jury ; but when it was ne.
cessary to uphold the character of his colleague, and
to inflame the minds of 0:e public against the sacred
institutions of our comer), he had not hesitated to
talk of picking and paling a jury. He would state
most positively, that it was as impossible to pack a
jury in the city of London, as it was in the county
of York, or any other of the counties that the As.
sizes were now going to be held in. It was possible,
and not unlikely, that the short-hand writer who took
down the trial did send it to the Learned Judge
to be revised by him. It was the common prac-
tices° to do ; and the Term Reports, and other books
of equal authority, had been submitted to a sirn:-
far review. Every man who had seen a short-hand
statement of his own speech must see that it was nut

* Lord CASTLEREAGH had ventured to suggest
to ihe.Nohle Lord, when he fi.st gave his notice, that
al bough it was competent to any Member to submit
such a question to the vmsideration of the House,
yet few or no instances of such an interference with
the prerogative of the Crown ss as to be found, at least
in the modern practice of P.oliantent. It was an
extre nely delicate dis-retion which the Crown had
to exercise in 'his cise ; but it was not usual for the
House to interfere with this•discretion, or to presume
that it would not be properly exercised. The admi.
nistration of justice was now so perfect in all its
parts, that the interference of Parliament was rather
likely to do prejudice th in service. In th days
when the Judges were dependent on the Crown, and
remoyeable at pleasure, their excesses might have
made the interference of Parliament sometimes ne-
s:wary. Our courts of justice should have no co.
16nr of political bias ; and considerations which
might have some weight in that House, ought to
have no influence on their decisions. In the present
case, he saw no ground for their interference. The
Honourable Gentleman who had spoken last (Mr.
Hurst) appeared to reprove his Hon. and Learned
Friend (the Solicitor• Genet al) for travelling a little
out of the regular grounds upon which the motion
of this night was brought forward. It must be re-
collected, however, that there had heen discussion
on a former night, MINI the Noble Lord (Coch.
rant) had stated circumstances that no one at that
time could be prepared to meet, and which produced
such an effect on many Members as to make them
express a Oulu of his guilt. If loose doubts had
arisen,• nobody knew how, respecting the justice of
the verdict and the sentence, it did become his Hon.
and Learned Friend to come forward with the weight
of his great talents and character, and tanove from
the House that delusion which had been auernpted.
It would certainly be painful to their feelings to be
kept in a long state of suspense on.this subject; and
it was a considerable relief to his mind to think that
this affidavit of Lord Cochrane's, which was now so
much relied on, was fully before the consideration of
the Jury that tried him, and was even brought for-
ward in evidence on the part of the prosecution.—
Tt was distinctly stated to the _Tory by the Noble
Judge who presided at the trial, that if they believed
that affidavit they must acquit Lord Cochrane. The
Ida/ was now printed, and every member might read
it ; and he, for his part, could not see why that House
should have doubts where the jury. bad none. It was
certainly painful to se., a man of L.,rd Cochrane's
rank, and who had rendered distinguished services to
the country, placed in a condition so degrading ; but
he coula not see any distinction that any privileged
'orders in society had to exempt from those punish
rnents which the law had affixed to certain crimes.
He had not taken up any such aristocratical notions ;
and he thought, that if persons in elevated situations
suffered their minds to be so debased as to commit
those crimes, which the law considered infamous, there
was nothing in their station which exempted them from
the punishment which the law affixed to such crimes.
It would be a dangerous doctrine to lay it down as an
ibitract principle, that the rank and services of Lord
Cochrane should exempt him from the punishment
which would attach to another offender who should
have committed the same crime. There had been at-
tempts nut of doors to blind one another, and to deceive
the public as to the magnitude of the offence. It had
beer represented, not as a flagrant crime, but rather
as an effort of ingenuity. It was, therefore, neces-
sary that the country should know that the offence
was considered by the law as an infamous crime.—
An Honourable Baronet on the other side of the
House (Sir Francis Burdett), who, with his advan.
cages of education, ought to have clearly perceived
the enormity of the offence, spoke of it with a degree
of tenderness that did not belong to him. He wet
therefore glad that the crime of conspiring to cheat
the King's subjects, for the gain of a few individuals,
had been marked as a most serious crime.—(Hear.)
—He should not now enter into the question, whe.
the; the. pillory was or was not a proper mode of
punishment i but it was the punishment which the
law of the land affixed to infamous offences, and
which it was, 'therefore, the duty of the judges to
pronounce. In so doing they had upheld the nociealit y
of the country, and they had defended the property
of his Majesty's subjects from fraud and dishonest
conspiracies of this nature in future. The laws had
done their duty. in this case, the bench had done its
duty, and it now remained for the crown to discharge
its duty. He conceived. upon the whole, that it was
a dangerousprinciple for the house to interfere with
the prerogative of the crown. He had now to inform
the House, that the crown had taken steps to inter-
pose its mercy to omit that part of the punishment,
not only with respect to Lord Cochrane, but the
other two persons who had been sentenced.—(Loa
cries e hear, hear).—He must, however, state ex.
pressly the grounds on which its mercy was so es-