Star.
London, England, 1825-04-20 00:00:00

/ ,

. ii,

1111MIWPw'mw--
miEhleihe persoeutions of the Protestants in the Soothe/ France,
in 1444, and there they would discerner the true essenceof this rer
Ilgioa. He was anxious to avoid stirring up religious strife ;.be- '
it was his duty to declare that the Popish religion was not changedt
sad that it behoved a Protestant King and a Protestant Parlia-
ment to be on their guard against it.—After a few weeds from
Led Nonni
Mr. H. DAVIS said, that many of the Gentlemen vela signed
the Petitions which be had presentelL were as enlightened as the
limemehluilliember (Mr. Leycester), or any other in that House.
Me. IL COOPER presented a similar Petition from Gloucester.
Mr. CRAW LEY presented a similar Petition from Monition.
Mr. FLEMING presented similar PittitiOTl4 from the Clergy of
the Arcbdeacoury of Winchester, and from the tuhabitants
bE
Portsmouth and Porter*.
Mr. CARTER, as one of the Representatives for that place,
from which this last Petition purported to come, must say bow it
was got up. A requisition was numerously signed for a meeting,
but the Mayor wished for an open, discussion, and the requi-
sitionists then refused to call a meeting. The Mayor, however,
persisted in holding the meeting, and a counter resolution
was peed to, that as the matter was now under the consideration
of•Pasliament. it was inexpedient to move any Petition whatever
respecting Catholic Emancipation.
Mr. FLEMING bore testimony to the high character of the
Gentlemen who bad signed the Petition.
Mr. ASHETON SMITH presented a similar Petition front

Bangor.
Sir 3. NICHOL presented a similar Pedtion from Tiverton.
Mr. R. HILL presented two similar Petitions from Whitchurch
and another place in the county of Salop.
Mr. CHAPLIN presented four similar Petitions from the
county of Lincoln.
Sir 0. CHETWY ND presented three similar Petitions from
Litchfield, Stafford, and Burton upon Trent.
Lord 'NUGENT made some obsavations upon the manner in
which one of the Petition' had been got up.
Mr. Secretary Pia. and Mr. 'Arneson bore testimony to the
respectability of the signatures.
Mr. CU.RTEIS presented two similar Petitions from Lewes.
Sir J. ASHLEY presented a similar Petition frets Wootton
Basset.
Mr. DICKINSON presented three similar Petitions from differ-
ent parts of the county of Somerset.
Similar Petitions were presented from four Patishes
In the .1 I
county of Somerset, and from five hundred persons, inhabants of
Devises, by Mr. Emotive ; and from Fairley, by Sir K Leoen.
Mr. JO II NsTo E presented a Petition from Mr. John Newtou,
of Lincolnshire, stating, that the Petitioner considered the Oa
the th
rest
in
the now before the House as a degradation to hint d
ef his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, inasmuch as they
did not
profess any of the opinions denounced in the said oath.
Ur. Alderman THOMPSON presented Petitions from the Pe-
-
tithes of St. Mary's, Somerset, St. Margaret, Dissen
tern of Walworth. ageism the Catholic
Similar Petitions were presented from the Archdeacon, &e. at
Bedford, by the Marquis of Teetsvoce • from Darlingtun, by Sir
11. ilasereee; from the Wesleyan 111:thoibts of Brighton and
Lewes, and the Protestants of ditto, by Sir..lons Sett rYt K; and
front a parish in Dorset, by Lord BRUDEM.II.I.
Sir It. II EliON presented two Petitions in favour of the Cathn.
lie Claims; one from the city of Peterborough, the other from the
town of Newark. In moving that the Petitions be brought up, th
lon. Baronet enlarged upon the respectability of the Petitioners,
and anintadverted upini the manner in which some other Petitions
or an opposite nature were prepared and seen to that house,
• Mr. BROUGHAM wished, for the sake of Christian
charity, to call the attenti )n of the House to a statement
which he held in his hand relative to the Petition pre-
sented on Friday last, to which the Host. Member, who
had just cat down, had so properly alluded. (a; anthaar
and the Soke, from which the Petition purpor,ed to
come, contained a population, be understood, of 10,000
i.babitonts, and the meeting which adopted the Petition
c Insisted of 29 .'f those 10,000. Tire number of si
g
tures to it when presented amounted to 439, donsn
- these he would beg to give son:e account. The fist IS,
it Was fat fair to state, were Clergymen, hut the neat
196 were of ass opposi c character, for tl ey weie inca-
pable of -reading or w:iting their own names. Tr.ese
learneffstatesioeu of lenge, however, wishing to be concise as well
as zealous in .theirhoollity to the Catholics, expressed their accord-
eirct•to the 'Petition by a set of very emphatical crosses—(Hear).
Of the next .four signatures two were convicts, awl two kept
brothele—(lle-ar, and laughter)--the latter, probably, being appre-
hensive of a rivalry in their trade..if the Scarlet Lady of Babylon
grit-any' further footing in the country—(Laughter)—and ten of the
subscrilltes were in the consteut receipt of parochial relief.
Sir .7tl. I:IItILMELEY here ruse, and made some objections to
'Brottehant's statement.
Mr. BROUGHAM could assure the Honourable
is/ember he had his infwmation from a source in ,wnich
ire could place: the most pet feet reliance, and that he
eras satisfied with the testimony on which he made,his
ssertions. The fact was, that two hundred and forty-
towo,.out -of the four hundred and thirty-nine naqies..to
the Petitions from Grantham and the Soke,,were•of.the
description he had suentinnedvand nevertheless the -Petitioners did
awstinall sake more then a per centage of four or five of the
whole population.
Sir.M. GHOLM ELEY observed, in reply, that out
'of the -four hundred and thirty-nine names to the
Yetition he presented there was. but one signed with
la:cross. Upon. that point, therefore, be was convinced
the Hon. and Learned Member must be in •error. As
to the two persons who were said •to keep houses of
bad repute, it was not in his power either to verify or
refute the statement, for in his whole life he had never
set foot in any place of the kind—( Loud laugliter)-
-but of this he could assure both the Honourable and
Learned !timber for Winchtisea, and the Hunotinable• Member
for Peterboreugh, that the Petition which he presented on rriday
last was couched in the beat and most respectful language; and
'that on no occasion would he (Col. C.) present -any Petition un-
worthy of that house—(Hear, bear).
Lord NUGENT should remark, that he believed
the. statement of his Honourable and Learned Friend
only sent to say, that a hundred and, ninety-eight
of the Petitioners could not have written their names, andnot that
a hundred and ninety-eight crosses were affixed to the Petition.
Mr. Secretary PEEL certainly thought, when it wasl
so positively stated that so many crosses were signed
to"the Petition that the Hon. and Learned Member
I Mr. Brougham) had at least ascertained the fact by
looking to the Petition itself. He (Mr.'Peel), however,
felt it his duty from what had passed to send for the Iletition,-and he
found there was but one cross instead el t9R as represented. (The
Tighe 'Honourable Secretary here handed the Petition across the 1
table to Mr. reeughate).—Sir RORER T. 11E11.0N explained.
' Mr.-CUST believed the Honourable and' Learned
Member (Mr.. B.) was now satisfied he had overate* himself.
31r: M A BP:RLY presented i Petitions front Abingdon against
the Catholic., Claims ; and one front the parish of St. Matthew,
Bethnal Green, was presented by Mr. Cetus Wit.sow. Similar Pe-
*lune front Ashford, Sandhurst, and two other places in Kent,were
?resented by Sir.E..KneettouLt.. .1
L: FOSTER presented a Petition from seventy of the prin-
cipal Protestant inhabitants.of fhmdalk, in favour of the Catho-
lic Cleims,-The Petitions were ordered to lie on the table.
Ati-LITILETOW presented Petition from Weet Bromwich
against the Catholic Claims. Laid on the table. Also from Staf-
(actin favour.ofehe Bill now before the House for their relief.
Sir • HENRY PARN ELI. presented a' etition
theßite'
dered to be printed.
Dlreeecretary PEEL, presewted several Petitions against the Bill.
ate *of tbe Petitions came front the Synod of Glasgow and the
Ministers and Elders of that City. He. said that he should watch
over:the interests'of the Scotch' Church, its he would over the Knee
IttlaCharch of thircountry ; hus-he had some doubts upon the
being received as that of the .Corporation or ot Pe •
tiesereonly. Dm Moderator, Dr. Wade:law inserted the right
to a Petitieseas that of the Corporation • and io .1813 there
ono something like a similar Petition received by' this Ilonse trawl
a the Genial Assembly of the Church of Scotland. He wished tbe
practiee on this subject to be stated, although, far his own part, be
*lid no doubt as to what the law of Parliament actually was.
Mr. SPEAKER said, that the Petition of a Corpo-
ration was known by having
•
embed to it, which was tberasserramOCccee Corporate
usesealltaarlt7
oat Lt was so ; bat If a Corpotatbut bad tio *tilt and yet the

House knew the Corporation to exist, then ft would be too m ucb
to expect that mode W authenticity ususky recognited by the
House. The safer aunt would be, retfive tie Petition; lit-that
of the indrilduals of this Corporatism' eiho signed k.
Mr. J: P. GRANT said, that niaby 'Corporations in
Scotland bad no Seal, and tint many Corporate acts were known
'by the signature of the Moderator.
. Mr. Secretary PEEL, under such circumstances,
hoped the Petition would be received as the Petition of the Cor-
poratton. The Honourable Member then presented Petitions
against the Bill, from the Protestant Dissenters of Fore-street
Chapel; from the Congregation of the Rev. J. Chamberlain ; from
the Dissenters of Shouldham ; from the Inhabitants of Trowbridge ;
from the Baptist Congregation of Snow's-fickle, Southwark
leirin the' Dissenting Congregation of Crown•street, Soho • from
that of Blaudford-surer, Manchester-square; from the Dissentersi
of Grantham • front a Parish in Leicestershire ; from the Borough
of 'hotness ; irom the Congregation of the Adeiphi Chapel, pari-h
of St. Martin-in-the-Fields; front certain Inhabitants of Reading;
from thp Parish of St. John, Hampstead ; from Watford; from'
the Dissenters of Clerkenwell ; and from those of Union-street'
Chapel, Surrey ; which were all ordered to be bid on the table.
Mr. WILLIAM SMITH said he had no objection
to the light exercised by the petitioners, but up to yes-
terday there were certainly no mote than nine or ten
petitions from the Protestant Dissenters against what is
called Catholic Emancipation. He had this morning
lead over a list of 2,000 Congregations, awl of those
not more than six had shewn any hostility to Catholic
Emancipation. He held in his 'mod at this moment a
list of 97 different regularly Dissenting. Congregations,
and of those only five had petitioned. Many Others—
Wesleyans,W icklitites, and others, did not belong to the
Dissenting Congregations, of whose meetings he bad
been the Chairman for above five-and-twenty years.
In fact, not one in a hundred of these Congregations
had expressed any opinion in the one way or the other upon the
subject; they left the matter altngether to the wisdom of the Le-
gislature. He should have been sorry if she Dissenters eame for-
ward as a body to oppose civil liberty in its widest extent.
Tbel'ro-
testant Dissenters held various opinions, and they wished that every
religious and political society should do unto others as they would
be done by. Such was their universal motto. To prevent any im-
pression going forth on this subject he felt it his duty to make these
few. observations.
Sir G. SHIFFNER begged to assure the House
that the Petitions he presenteil upon the question of Emancipation
had come from a very respectable body of men, residing near tend
at Brighton.
Mr. SPRING RICE said, that he rose to present a
Petition Irom several Elders and others of the Piepby-
teri in Dissenters of the County of Dawn, in the North
of Ireland. He had the more pleasure in discharging
this duty, after what had passed just now, as well as
what was said in the course of the last evening. The
'Petitioners stated, that they were not only not unfriendly
to Catholic Emancipation, but that they willingly came
forward to promote the cause of Christian liberality.—
I This Petition was signed by 139 individuals, Members
of the Synod of Ulver, resolved to call for the abolition
of Catholic disabilities, and they further desired him to
say, that if any person signed any Petition against the
Catholic, except in his character as an individual, that
such a person had passed beyond the limits prerctibed
by the regulations of the Synod. The Petitioners
trusted that the great cause of Catholic Emancipation
would now be carried, that it had gained and was still
gaining ground, and these opinions they se ished to be
recorded. Ilad the Petitioners thought a public decla-
ration necessary, they would have made one; and they
further state, that they never felt more chagrin or regret
than when they s tw, by the mint.tes of evidence taken
before the Committee on the-state of Ireland, that dif-
ferent principles and feelings were attributed to them.
The first name attached to the petition was that of The'
High Sheriff of the County of Down—he being a Pres-
byterian and Elder, and coming manfully forward to.
state his opinions, net like others who wished to keep.
up a monopoly, because they had alreAdy obtained all
that they wanted Hear). The Petition was ordered to be printed.
SirF. BURDETT presented ten Petitions in favour of the
Catholic liill. ,One front Falmouth, and the other from levees.
Mr. •WILD'ALIN presented a Petition koinst the Catholics,
fsom several parishes in Essex.--. Laid on. the table.
Mr. WI LD :11 .1 N presented a Petition front the Thorough of
Colchester, against theliomanCathalicilill.r-Ordered to be printed.
Mr. SCARLET" rose to present a Position from the
Serjeants at Law, at the English Bar, in favour of the
Catholic,Claims. Though. it was not ,so numerously
signed as man.y.of.those which had been* offered to. the
House, yet it contained a greater mass of intelligence
than nine times their number. He could not name 169
individuals, either in or out d the House, who were
more competent, judges of the suhject of the Petition
by their learning, knowledge, and experience of public
coocerns, or who ,were better fitted to give an opinion
on the subject, uninfluenced by any of those motives
which attached to r ther petitioners, than the subscribers
to the' Petition. 'The House must not conclude that the
number of persons at the ,English Bar who favoured
the oteasure„were comprised in the Pe Won. Froth hit
individual knowledge he could say. that.barristers of
the highest character and judgment concurred in the
same sentimeots, al hough they refused their names to
it on the idea s that the bar ought not to Petition the
Legislatme. Other circumstances called the considera7
tion of the House to the Petition. If there.was any body of
men to excluee as personal competitors to the honours.
emoluments, and dignities, to which the passing of the
Bill would open the way, it,would be the Catholics of Ire.
land. Independent of this, sit was notorious that the peti._
tioners who declared favourable sentiments towards the
Catholics, didoot pursue the path .which led to eminence
in their profession—(Cheera). The best mode by.whicb
a batristerof intelligence and eminence in his profession
could hope.to arrive:at high honour was to,become
ant
an apostate -.of these principles—(Hear,. hear). Ti:e
persons who had the courage to present the petition,
and who were distinguished by, intellect and knowledge,
were deserving of the attention and respect of. Parliament.
le
sensibly ftit tin: lionpur beingintrustfd,watis the petition of such
a body of persons. M.no.period of the history of thellar of Great
Britain did it. contain a greater (!umber of Gentienien of talent,
zeal, awl integrity, although, it had Art bet4rlnsinuated„inbigh
quarters that it was deficient in intelligence, ands that lice tintei
were,not fruitful in talent. He lead, unfurtunstlly, groin old 'in
the profession, but when be eorintienead hip eareer, there 'were only
individuals who possessed knowiedge out of the Bar.
Mr. 131t0U.GHAM bole testimony to the.truth of
t
the statements of his.Learneci Friend,with regard to the
character of the members who composed the English l
bar. He knew that the feeling was strongly hs favour'
of Catholic Emancipation, On the Northern Circuit.%
which contained a floating body of 90 or 100 individuals,
50 at least had signed the petition, and from his personal
knowledge he asserted, that SO more expressed their
entire concurrence in the prayer of the petition. He
had. no reason to believe that tuck opinions, were more prevalent its
that Circuit-than in others.
The Petition was laid on the table and ordered to be printed.
Led BECTlVF.preeented a Petition from the county of Cavan,
in favour of the Catholic eWms.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. DOM I NICK BROW NE presented a similar- Petition
from Mayo.
After a few words from Mr. Damns Benwam the Petition was-
ordered to be printed.
Lord NUGENT presented a similar Petition from
the,Roman catholic: of Great Britain. The Noble
Lord observed that this Petition was deserving of every

attention from the House, on lietadni ararechardCt
and nurebers the Petitibners, who weld art'int
Station and conduct. -They apprelachesl the
on
thepresent occasion with renewed hopes, &aided on the
justice of their claims. The fact was. Nit theareley of
I them was reduced to a matter of mere calculation on
the part of the opponents of the measure, as to whether
it should be protracted for one, two, or. three years
longer. The number of Petitioners was upwards of
52,000, a number by no means inconsiderable. He was
surprised at the delay in granting the Catholic Claims.
Id doing so, we stood before Ireland as unprinciplraled'
and faithless debtors, still deferring with as little mo
justice as p ilitical wisdom claims which *ere trusted to
our good faith and honesti; The Catholics Of England,
he was proud to say, har never separated aireir cause
'from that of the Catholics of Ireland. They now sought
[ to. be relieved hem the necessity of taking oaths which
I were obnoxious to their Conscientious scruples. He
'contended that there was no solid ground for fearing
the influence of the Pope, over the, minds of the Catholics
of this country. Had the Duke of Norfolk, did they
think, nothing else to do but become the treasonable
agent of a foreign Potentate?, They could never hope
to be reconciled with Ireland short of Catholic Emanci-
pation. Whether there were danger in that measure or not, there
certainly was no safety without it. It was absurd to elyeet.the
question would ever die a natural death.
Mr. JOHN SMITH observed, that it was not gene-
rally known of what 'materials those Roman Catholics
were composed whorls we proscribed. by our laws. He
spoke from a knowledge of them, when be said, that a
more exemplify, industrious, moral, and peaceable
body there was not in the kingdom. They were never
found as panes in Old Bailey proceedings, wither -did
they swell the catalogni of bankrupts, and iezople of a more ex-
cellent character and demeanour he knew not.
' Mr. ROBERTSON said,' that. his sentiments were
already known with regard to the Catholics of Ireland.
He thought that what they meant to do for Ireland
should he done speed.ly. He had no batted for Catho-
lic lrelaod, but he felt much favour for Pro extant
England, and thought the case of alitse English. and
Scotch Roman Catholics very different from that of the
Irish. Whea the Bill was brought forward for discus-
sion, he meant to inOie that no Roman Catholic should
be allowed to sit in Parliament for any English borough
or county. The Honourable Gentleman was inter.
ropted by the impatience of the House more than once in the
1c our** of his speech—The Petition was then brought up, read, and
ordered to be primed.
Mr. COKE then presented a Petition from the Arch-
deacon and several of the Clergy of the County of Nor-
folk, in favour of the Catholic Claims. This he took
1 to be the result of having a Ackx! Bishop ; and he hoped
'he should live to congratulate that great and good
man, the Bishop of Norwich, upon the success of the
question. Tie petitioners° had rather not have sent this
Petition, thinking it better' for the Clergy to remain
silent upon the subject; but they telt themselves called
upon to do so in consequence of seeing Petitions sent up by Clergy.
men on the other side of the question.
Mr. WODEHOUSE bore testimony to the respecta-
bility of the petitioners, and praised the temperate and
liberal toes in which their petition *as drawn up
contended that those who drew up the counter-petition
were equally respectable and more numerous, and had
therefore an equal, If not a better claim to represent the sentiments
of the Clergy of NohviCh. • •
Lord MILTON contorted. most heartily in what
had fallen from his Honourable Friend, the Member
for Norfolk (Mr. Coke). The language of the • Peti-
tion was highly creditable to those from whom it ema-
nated, and must be highly gratifying to all the true
friends of the Established Church. The Petitions hi-
therto presented by the members of that body were by
no means calculatedto raise thkir chirracter.sor to pro-
mote the true interests of the Establishment. .Prtifesting
himself as he (Lord Milton) did, a staunch friend to
the Protestairt religion, and' art *mint to the topersti-
tions.of the notiio Church, he could net help' saying,
that there Were other weapons by_ which :the Igrtiier
could be defended, and the latter put down, thanan in-
tolerant appeal td the sticing. arm of the law to deprive
our fellow-subjects of their civil rights. It was not by
persecution (kW h was ii:ohing, else tract persecution to
deprive the Roman CAW:Pica of political power,
which was the right of every citizen 'of • the country),
that the Protestant religion _could. be advanced—that
religion was founded upon higher grounds. Reaion
and argument were the true weapons by which it
ought to 4ctilefended, and any either course Would wad to retard,
instead of promoting its progress.
.The petition was then ordered to be printed.
ROMAN CATHOLIC RITLIEt
Sir F. BURDETT then moved the Order of the Day
for the second reading of the Roman Catheilic Relief Bill • •
Mr. BROWNLO%V" 'begged* the patience pf the
House whilst he offered one single Sentence' to describe,
the sentiments with which he viewed , the autiject--o
namely, that circumstanced as Ireland was, it could not
go on longer. The situation of that country was dis-
graceful —the parties in it were but little removed from
a state of actual contest—no encouragement was held
out for improvement in that ill-fated country, and it,
was evident that something must be done for it. The
question was. what that something ought to be? Were
I we to go back and re-enact the Penal Code? No; there
was one answer to that, which was as good as a thou
Isand—namely, it was impossible. If we could ant go
back then, he knew of but one alternative, namely, going
instantly forward, and proceeding upon principles of
concession. He was anxious to Obtain some great na-,
tional settlement, for that country (Ireland), Rod if he
were asked whether he raw bore that distinguished
feeling of opposition wh:ch he once felt, whether good
or. badoowards six. millions,of hisiellow subjects, he
was constrained to. aniwera by no Means. ; quite the
contrary. Manrof the grounds on which he formerly
stood, were now gone; many of those arguments
which he was in the-10 Bit of 'using hitnsalf, and which
he was still more la the habit of hearing used,were totally
removed, while those that remained were weakened;
and i 4 far as concerned himself, he knew of no other
course that remained for him, in common sense, com-
mon fairness, and even in common consistency, than
when he found himself in error, at once to say so,
to acknowledge his fault, and to make such atone-
ment as was possible 'for hini to' Make under all
the circumstances-446nd arid repeated cheers).—
Of the form of the Roman Catholic Religion he should
say nothing. 44 Judge nit, lest ye be judged," was,
he apprehends, a Sound Maxim on a subject like this,
and strictly applicable between religititis disputants: But
to suppose that the. Rbman Catholic-religion affected
the discharge of social duties, detracted from allegiance
or weakened the authOrity*Which:Grieernore should-ex-
ercise over those beneath them, or that.C.itholita %%4=
in all respects under the cube direction of the rope,was
a mere spiritual fallacy. His opinion was so.-entirely
,changed upon this subject, that he could hardly tees*
cile these notions with the identity of thcise nbeiods

, ..
which lie formerly entertained. *lila had'sew hete)
of *metope vrbO laid trowris _under his feet,Anhidu
nations by his mandate, lad etcbetintitacated Prince!.
The power and Sensual df the age hid overcoate.bilit=
the David had destroyed him ; k hid Mien with its mini
weight, or had retired td its Own kountry. if it b*
true that the Ronian Catholiccs. Still posse:, a stroll* .
ground which they formerly heldi--11
it be not true that
the King possesses the full;
petfektolnd entire allegiance
of his Catholic subjects; then; sit, the Romitl
Catholics
ti4f)thbee eexvicillEedstiwiflreofimhtta:CejectstkeensciltionilluthsPicitehists.egubaljsiiecid4ttrildbreiPertritsani!.:44
ifit appear that high-born, high-minded, and intellect-
tual men have come over here to guide uS with the light
of knowledge and truth, and' not, as 'I have head
it
hinted, to lie, with a devilish 'IAA, in in' unjust axing=
then, I say,' that upoit'this part of the rubjett, thefe tad
be no argunient to 'Maintain, raid any roan taking I;
an argument With tits pert of the 'qttestiori mist find
himself sUrreendeid ' A wiestiod
is pat to *Dr. Doyle; oe If thri-PopeirFre'its irsterilsed'dlsi
with the rightillf the King, or. With 'the altegiinee; .
what would' be the ionsequence;so 'foe as the Cathelie
Clergy are concerned r ''The 'answer wii;ll the' OW
sequence would be that we shbOld oppose him by eVert
nteans in our povier; even by 'the etteicise of our
spi-
ritual authotity"—lHeir, hear, hear).—'" In whit mitts- .
r
net could you exercise that spirituil antliorityr The
answer was, " By preiching to 'the people, that their
duty to GoD, 'as Catholics, required of them to oppose
every person who would interfere in-any 'way with that
right which the law _a nature, and the positive hey of
Goa established' in their Prince—a Prince, whom we,
as subjects, were' bound to support; we would theft-
fore ex!reise our spiritual authority, by preaching the
Gospel to the peopl., and by' teaching them to opptise
the Pope, if he interfered with the temporal rights ofour
KIT." Further, in 1)r. Mu, ray's evidence, it was said,
that the Pope's kingdom ii nin a kingdom of this world.
Dr. Doyle was then iSiceit, 44 What authority 'has, the
Catholic writer Gother • :anon,' 'the Cittkolies ?".Isid he
answered, tiother is estierded by us revery trederahe
writer, and pertictly orthodox in all that he has writ-
ten." Now what did he say 'upon the subject. Cursed
is he that commit! idolatry; that prays to images, or
relics, or worships them 'for Goo." Dr. D. says, " fbat
is our proper doctrine, and I and every other Boman
Catholic in the world *mild say with Gott et, • Accursed
be suCh'a person.' " 'Bot though he was prepared, in
this stage of the proceeihns,:ta'vote for the Right Hon.
ironet s Bill, it did not occur to him that that Bib Was
the Most' petfect-meisuie which the circumstorice. of
the country, in-the evidence otPred, would warrant the
adoption of. There 'Wete-measures -which the evide,,g.e.
of every 'witness would warrant, 'viz. a provision for
the Boman Catholic Clergy,' int the exercise of the ele6.
tive franchise. lie by no means looked upon a-provision
for thePriestbood as a de.4 of gratitude due fromtheState
to that class of person; for their met& rious exertions in
preserving peace, or mitigating the.suffaings of lielaud.
On the contrary, bethought that, considering the habits
of intimacy on which the Clergy lived with their flocks.
and the undoubted influence s hick they were allowed
toelercise' over them; they could'hot well have done
less than they had done for the tranquillity of the coun-
try. Ile would, therefore, incorporate the Roman
Catholic Clergy close withthe State, ar.d he hoped that,
like the Presbyterian Clergymeu, finding there was no
interference with their independence, they would be-
come good allies. As to the other part of this measure,
namely, with respect to the exercise of the elecive
franchise, in every view in which it could be considered,
whether in a political or moral point of view, whetter
as connected with the subdivision of Ireland, 'or what
was synonymous with. the multiplication of beggars in
this country, it was an object which-was in every re-
spect desirable to obtain. With regard to the Pro-
testants, though it sins so strongly urged that they were
decidedly against the measure, yet ib his apprehension
they were the very persons who should call
.tor it as
their best seturify—(lUier,Vrear). His wish was CO pass
such a Bill. as should lie satisfactory to all parties—
(Hear)=-so that no faction should be able to boast over
another, but whatever triumph there might be should
be the nations triumph; or if a measure couldnot, be
adopted which would satisfy every one, let them at
least fix upon one that would give an impulse to industry,
and enable man to stand by man without the terror of
penal laws berme his eyes--(Hear, Atar). ' •
Mr. BANKES considered the proposed provision for
the Roman Catholic Clergy as a most objectionable
measure -It appeared that there wete 2;,sop Parish
Priests in Ireland ; the payment of. those Arne' Would
occasion a heavy charge on the Consolidated Fund.—
He trusted that Parliament' would not enter blindly
upon such an expensive ',project. It was Stipa:table
that the people of this country would long isear the
burden which 'the payment of' the Catholic Clergy
wield impoie upon them, aid then it would be found
necessary to lave recourse to the tittles a die Protestant Church
in Ireland. The Hos. Gent. mmeladed by moving as an meta-
went, that the IBM be read a second time this day six mouths.
Mr. W. PEEL rose to second the amendment; and
said, that jedging of popular feeling from the senti-
intents of the place he represented, he should decidedly
hold that the people of England were ovene to granting
hay further concessions to the Catholics. For himself,
after great attention to the subject, he prOfessedihat
he remained unconverted. If the opinions which be
bad held formerly were those of bigotry, it was his
misfortune to be a bigot still. But, even if be had
generally been friendly to the cause of Catholic EMU-
ciliation, he should consider the prt4ent time a most
unfit one for carrying it.. It would really be putting
too high a pre am upon faction and violence, to let
it be supposed that the late proceedings of the Ca-
tholic Association had tended to promote anythiog'is
the way of concession from Parliament or the country.
Honourable Gentlemen said it was hard to make a
large bddy of people suffer for the violence or
deuce of a few; but the Catholics of Ireland, lei it be
remembered, had in every sense identified *catfishes
with the Catholic Association ; they had adopted the
leaders of that body as their chiefs, and made them
selves party alike to their opinions and proceedings.
—He believed it was an exaggeration to
.say, that the
cause of Catholic Emancipation was the cause of six
millions of people in Ireland; but the fact mattered lit.
tie, for the greater their number the greater was the
danger of granting what they desired. He was not
one who thought that the political consequences would
be of carrying the present measure. TE Parlia-
ment was oriceAhrown open to the Catholics, a decided
':hange would not fOil to take place in the Irish reit&
,entation ; a large body_ of. Catholics would soon be
found sitting in that House, to legislate upon matters
connected with Protestant interests and Protestant su-
premacy. If these were good Catholics, they' woOld