Star.
London, England, 1805-06-21 00:00:00

veniencc

one or can pasts or the world, arieiy fpeaking ; and
whenever they did cfcape they were always inre to
have tlier own apprehenfions fulfilled in having a
pritifh fquadroii clufe at their heels. InftruiSlions
had been previoully given to our naval commanders
tor that purpofe, and they had accordingly gone in
quell of them,but were not fortunate enough to have
a knowledge of their courfe. This was Paid to be a
ctimiral negligence in Minaters, but it-was impoffible
that any thing beyond a general outline could be
known ; it was impoffible to enter into the heart of

the Chief Governor of France. • A friendly union
with Foreign Powers couldnatimmediately bebrought
about ; and therefore, as to that principal point of
the Honourable Gentleman's fpeech, it would be
innre advifable, it would be more likely to promote
the intetells of our country, it would be more likely
to incratte whatever Influence Government might
I:dve in the Councils of Foreign Nations, to fee that
a ltritiih Parliament repofed a becoming degree of
,:nntidence in the Government of their Country. The
fum, however, was taken by anticipation, and was
probably over-rated. Bat it would be teen by
a reference to the journals of the Houfe, that fuch a
proceeding was not without precedent, as on the 6th
of June 1799, the film of three millions was voted
nye the hope of an alliance that was ther. unformed.
Mr. WINDHAM °braved, that the quetlion to
be cenlidered on this oceafion was not as the Noble
Lord who juft fat down bed fisted it, Whether the
amount of the fans propofed to be voted was neteiTary,
or whether that him would be properly applied, but
whethe7 tinder all the circumttances of the country, it
would be proper that Patliament thuuld be pro ogled.
It was not nicatit to be argued, not had any thing of
the kind been laid by his Honourable Friend who

opened the debate, that Minit ers could or ougbt to
make any cotimunicatio.n to the Heinle at prefent,
with regard to any' negociations they might be en-
gaged in with foreign powers. But this be would
maintain, that in ordtr 'eo afford the opportunity of
nuking the earlieft petinble communication upon that
important fubjetit, Parliament thould not be proro-
gued—that was the prailiol'queftion at iffue. But
the objenion to comply with the motion was, it teem-
ed that latch compliance world imply i want of con-
fidence in his 14ajefty's Minifters.
,To that; how-
_

ere►, he would fay, that the conidenee demanded
was more than they or any other Miners were en•
titled to tiaim. What! that Parliament thould

pirate; leaving the country in fuch a (late' &trona-
dedwith fuch menacing dangers, and fo inadequately
provided to meet them. Every man out of doors'
sun feel furprife that .the thought could be enter-
tained for a moment at fuch a cribs. Every man'
mua fay that we are at prefent in fuels a fituation
that it was impotlible to conceive what plan of pro-
ceeding Government had in contemplation—at what
point their policy was levelledor to what it -was
likely to lead—whether to peace or the ferious pro.
fecution of the war. Nobody could tell or divine,
though all were naturally anxious to afcertain their
tibiae. At a doe, then, that fuch doubt and
anxiety prevAled, ard that there wat fo little dill.
volition t, confide to the diferition of his Majefly's
Minitlets3 could it be ferionfly urged that it would be
wig Pariament to feparate ? lithe perfonal con.
veni,nce of Members were offered as a ground for
proregotion, he would fay with his Hon. Friend,
that Inch a confideration was not to be put in compc

tition with the :arms that miffed upoi the Honk to
continue fitting. The congderation of perfonal con-
venience was indeed unworthy to be aUedged in that
Houle agAinli the performance of a glat,public duty,
when, t.- by the ball, the afFyira the Empire;
upon a gtner.:l view, were in Etch a &nation that
Parliament o.rght to continue. in a nate of immediate
fuperiote- dance. To continue would not, be main-
tained, imply any undue want of confidence in his
mAjeiry', Minillers. But they profeifed to-be of a
diffirent 'pinion, and appeared principally to ma
their opposition to the motion upon that bafis: The
claim to confidence upon the part of Mini fiers on this
occation, naturally led him into an examination of
the grounds upon which their title was fuflained, and
this examination hi: Conce;red to refer to topics
which mull have a double cperation, &ft, with re-
fpea to the motion before the Houk, and, fecondly,
with terpeCt to the fituation of the country. Now as
applying to both thole topics, it was to be obferved
that there was a remarkable difcnrdancv between
what had taken place fince Ministers came into
office, and what they promikd at the time they
Accepted office They certainly did not fulfil
what they fo frequently promiled ref-peeling the
army. the inefficiency of which was the prominent
feature of the charge urged agairslt their predecef-
fors. Still the army, which generally formed a Ma-
terial ingredient in war, was in this peculiar war
in which the country was emzaged, almolt wholly
negleCted, that is with regard to a provi lion for its
perm Intent fupply. Upon this head Minlacrs had
certainly rather broken their pledges to Parliament
and the country, and this was the more deferring of
notice when it was recollefted that the inattention of
their predtcetfors to the army was the principal taafe
of their removal from office, and the principal article
of accufation ton exhibited againti them by Come of
the Indent Ministers. This marked inattention to
the army he Confidered quite a fufficient ground, at
leaß of diftruft, in his Majelly's Minillers ; and it un-
doubtedly occalinned much gloom and difcontent
throughout the et.untry. On this (*tibial he cautioned
the Houfeagainil the exaggeratetillatement which the
Noble Lord had made as to the amount of Our force.
He did not mean that this (brerent was exaggerated
by ffie Nimble Lord; bet he wifhed to imprefs on the
:inure thepropriety of anai yzing Inch Ratement before
4 attached much importance to it. The Noble Lord
bad bid that our difpofable force had received an in-
creafe within the year of no leis than 35,000 men.—
Tint the quellion was,of rb rt kind was that increafe?
—We had heard of a transfer of from 15 to 15,000
men from the Militia; but of what fort were the
remainder of the augmentation ? Were they of fuch
a delcription as the corps talked of at New Brunfwick
or Ceylon if they were, they furely formed no
material addition to a regular army, although they
might (well a ttatement. As to the addition which
the army received from the militia, they could claim
no credit for that addition, who frequently contended
that the militia were as efficient and as material
t r the firength of the country as the regular artny....-
But in point of fad, bowever Minifiers might vaunt
ut the increafe w!•;ch had taken place in the regular
army, there *me no means adopted that promifed

regular and efficient fupply. This was the genera
Complaint. The militia had &minted a periodical re-
fource; to,ooo men had been obtained from Hanover.
gut then no permanent refeurce was provided : the
men the army had got were not procured by recruit-
ink, nor by any fettled fyftern that was likely to con-
tinue productive. No ; the means by which the
army was augmented furniffied the extent of their
capacity once for all; and the army teas abfolutely
left in future to depend for fupply on accidenrsor Whs.
—The Noble Lord, the Right Hon-Gentleman ob-
ferved, had palled on from the Army to the Navy,
and gone into as it were the details of two years, na-
val campaigns. Bnt without following the Noble
Lord through all, or any of his details, the general.
refult was before the eyes of Parliament and the
country, and upon that general !Welt every man
could decide. Among all the viciffitudes of war,
among all the-gloomy and di (Wafting profpeas which
the prefent war prefented, Parliament and the people
were accußomed to hear and derive confolation from
the thought that Great Britain had the dominion of
the teas. But how did the cafe now Rand? The
fleets of the enemy were ow in various directions.
A formidable force was gone we knew not where—
the ball was [hot, and where it might hit, time alone
could tell us, but that it was likely to give our domi-
nions a fevere wound, there was too much reafon to
dread. Apprehenfions were entertained for Ireland,
the Indies, Etc. Public anxiety eagerly fought the
enemy's dellination, but all was fufpence and uncer-
tainty. The people, were *neafv, and the Govern-
ment was ignorant.—The . Right HoHottrable Gen-
tleman expreffed a hope and anxious wiffi, that not-
withftanding the ptefent Rate of things, particu-
larly with refpeet to the French fleet, tb country
thould have nothing more in the etrd to complain
of, but the Imifmanagement of Minillers, pr to in-
quire about the efficiency or inefficiency of the tyf-
tent of blockade. Every Briton mull naturilly feel
glad if the effete of the prefent alarming. pmfpeas
fhould at leek be reparable, and that it thould not
prove that we had an infecure hold of the dominion
of the lea. But he could not help laying that the ap-
pearance of our affairs was by no means calculated
to encourage confidence, furl as the Noble Lord
endeavoured to excite by a Ratentent that, however,
it might tell at a Court Martial, could make but
little unpreffion upon that Houfe, of the thoughtful
pert of the publie.—The Noble Lord's view of our
4010 A le, the Itiotht Honourable Gentleman Rated
his dinixlination to enter into, becaufe he did not
dunk thailuirt of his fpeeeh very Material to the
prefent queliion. But yet, there , was One [bolt
remark which he begged to fubmit. The Noble
Lord, in his endeavour to account for the non-per-
formaoee of that Mil:liter's promife, who (aid, that
for a Certain period no inersafe of our debt would
take place. Rated indeed, that the difappointment
of the expeCtatioo excited by that promife (if any
one did ferioufly rely on it), aide' from this, that
the expenditure was higher than the fum provided.
Why it would have anfwered the Noble Lord's pur-
pofe quite as well to have Paid that the income was
not equal to the expenditure (a loch.) But the fad
was, that both did not meet, and this (hewed that the
Min;Rer did not fulfil his promife. This of eau&
furniffied a further reafon for diftruß in Minifters.-..
But the ilrongeft ground for difiruß area. from the
Rate of the army. If it.were Paid that this Rate was
not wholly chargeable to the piefent Minißers, he
would admit it ; for it *mild have been impoffilsle for
them fince their. acceffion to power, to have repaired
what their predeceffors have done, and to have fup-
plied what thofe predeceffors had left undone. Bet
yet the prefent Minifters might have put meafures in
motion, and thofe meaftnes might have been now in i
progrefs, to remove the evil complained of. This,
however, was not the cafe. The army was left to
wage away, unlefs fume chance arafe—unlefs fome
lucky God-fend offered to fupply it—unieCs Lure
other country like Hanover fell into the hands of the
enemy, from which we might be able to obtain fome
force. This was a melancholy confideration, for jut
in proportion as our danger puffed—whether it was
our object to conclude a peace or carry on a war with
vigour, a formidable army was effentially neceffary.
With all the Noble Lord's obfervations refpeaing the
propriety of ebitivating a‘continental connexion, the
Right Hon. Gentleman expreffed a decided concur- I
rence. He remembered, however, when quite a diffe-
rent fend inent preiailed in that Htrufe, and when lame
Gentlemen jultißed the Peace of Amiens, in conk-
quence of its tendeticy to put an end to fueh connec-
tions. But he was glad to witnefs.the change that
now appeared, and that Gentlemen were bees:me fen-
fible of the propriety of continental connea.ions for this
country. Neceffity was a harfh teacher, but then Ile
was not a bad one. Much is the Houfe had heard of I
the pride and honeßy of (landing alone, it was now
found that folitude in danger was not a very confoling
catxtion. After having made ufe of taunting language
—after having endeavoured, under the affeetation of
magnanimity and lofty profeffions, to cover the in-
difcretion, and even the treachery of deferring and
infulting our continental friends, it was no* felt ne-
eclaty to retort to them, to court them. Some of
them, however, were not to be foUnd. Sardinia was
now no more ; and others were in fetters. But fuck
as felt any with towards us fhould be fought after, and
their fupport conciliated if poffible. There were
powers to which Minifters might look for aid, with
lamb hope of fixed's. Whet they bad done yet in this
lay thty declined, perhaps very properlf, to cote-•
menicate to the Houfe. But their declining to do fo,
and the neceffity of the continental concert looked
for, formed confiderations to (hew that Parliament
fhould continue to tit to watch the manner in which
the Minillers tbould exercife the power veiled in
their hands, and to receive the earließ intelligence
of the refult of their negotiations. in the ape.
nion of the Noble Lord, however, the want of coos'
fidence in Minifters which, according to his judgment.'
the adoption of the motion would infer, was a jult,l
ground of **Rion. Becaufe, as the Noble Lord ar-*
gued, to rehire confidence to Minifters at prefent
would fie to reduce them ib the eftimation of the
country, Rill more of foreign courts, and thus injure
the progrefs of the peading negotiations. If fuel an
argument, however. were admitted. it would operate
for univerfal confideneeia Meiners. , But it became
neceffary to take a corafe between two extremes—
to take away from Minutiae a Part of the power
of doing good left they theuld.do harm. It was one
of the dtfad vintages of our Connittition, and of every
other nation it which theft elated a popular Afes/t,

bit, that the GovernMent mull have a limited cone
dente. This difadvantage, however, was more than
compenfated by the advantages relishing from fuch an
arrangement. But this was a slifadvantage of which all
Minifters might equally complain, loran Minifters were
fubjea to the fame controul; and, in order to facilitate
the exercife of that controul, their powers were li
mited. To preferve this fidutary controul over the
proceedings of Minifters at the prefent important
junaure, it was his with that Parliament fhould not
be prorogued. As to the Noble Lord's quotation of
precedents, of which he teemed very fond, the Right
Honourable Gentleman obferved, that the Noble
Lord often reforted to them, where, in point of fall,
they did not form a proper criterion. When the No-
ble Lord alluded to the army, inftead •of dwelling
upon the peculiar (late of the country, and its capa-
city to produce a large military force; he went back
, to other periods, and infiltuted a comparifon between
times aid cireurollances, having no analogy what-
eier. But whether, in confiituting an army or de-
mending. confidence, it was the Noble Lord's plea-
Lure to refort to precedents, it however happened,
that the precedent which he had quoted on this oc-
canon could not avail him ; for there were not
merely " fhades of difference," as the Noble Lord ex
preffed it, between the eircumilatv.es under which the
vote of 3,000,000, palled in t 70, and thole which et-
iged at prefent; but the,/ were effentially different.
In the former inftance the fum voted was not only
much lefs than that now prolsOfed, but the negocia.
don was aanally concluded, and the line of proceed-
ing clearly marked ant, and our continental connec-
tion!: afcertained.. How' then, independently of any
confiderat;on arifing from a difference as to our clan-
gets, could a comparifon be Paid to,lie as to the two
periods ? There was, in truth, no equality that
could juftify the application of the Noble Lord's pre-
cedent.
Without recolleaing all the details, there
was, perhaps, one particular- reafon why that rece-
dent was nor applicable. It was rather probable
that, although there was an individual in the pre
fent Adminiftration who alto belonged to the Ad•
miniftration of 170, Parliament and the Country
had much more confidence in the Adminiftration of
Om than they were willing to grant to the prefent.
Whether looking to the motion cn the broad ground
of public fafety, or to the degree of confidence due
to Minifters, the Right Hon. Gentleman decidedly
thought that It ought to be acceded to. Parliament
would defect its duty if it invelled Minifters with on-

limited power. at fuch a erifis as the precept Of it
left to them the whole management of poblic affairs;
if it allowed a vaR ftin:t of money to be difpofed of
according to their direaion. If all ,this *as to be
fubmitted to, merely in order that the prorogatiori
fhould be -preferred to adjournment, it tnull excite
the furprize and difcontent of the Country. The
Rig'ht Hon. Gentleman concluded with recapitulating
his feveral arguments, and Rating that the dangers
of the country were fueh, that whether it was Meant
to continue the war, or take a temporary refuge in
peace, it was become neceffary always to have io
contemplation that we had to contend with art enemy
who followed the ambition of the ancient Romans,
without emulating their virtues (if virtues they could
be calledj, who.in faa entertained the fame vie* of
univerfal dominion.. Into many topics of the Noble
Lord's fpeech, the Right Hon. Gentleman.cleclined
to enter for the prefent, particularly that which re-
lated to the army, as an opportunity for fully difcuf-
ling that fubjed would offer in a few days.
Mr. CANNING law no advantage that could be
derived from the adoption of the propofition before
the Honfe. For if the Meeting of a Parliament
fhould at any time be wiceffart, tt might be convoked
with fuffi,:ient promptnefs and facility even after the
' prorogation. To keep the Member, in town at this lea-
fon did not appear to him to promife any particular
public gond,while it might be produaive of great pub-
lic mil-chief. As to the turn propofed to be voted in
confequence of his Majefly's Meffage, he could not fee
why his Right Honourable Friend &mid :Mune that
it would amount to five millions. The Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman deprecated the idea of fixing a
fufpicion on his Majeßy's Minifters, by adopting a
motion fo contrary to general cullorn as that before
the Honfe, and proclairhing.to the country and fel-
reigri courts, that they were Unworthy of confidence.
What the Gentlemen on the other fide could propofe
to obtain by preffing this motion, and preventing pro.
rogation, he confeffed himfelf quite unable to compre.
bend. If It was their objea to difcufs and improve
the. Rate of the army, they would have a full oppOr-
cooky of communicating their defigns on Monday
next, for upon that day the Houfe was :flare that a
great authority was to come forward with great military
plans—in confequence of which the ffelEon might
elofe with a new military fyltem, that fhould do away
all the blunders that had heretofore been committed;
that Omuta fet a new military machine in motion
quite free from blemills, and iacapable of oblirurlion;
chat lkonld, in faa, render it unneceffary for Parlia-
=into for years, again to confider a military fubjea.
(Mane we Me Mocker Mimi Me Mitufler.) If it wts
the with of Gentlemen to enquire into the fyitem of
'blockade as applicable to the efcape of the Toulon
fleet, with a view to attribute blame w Miniliers, he
called upon them to inftitule the enquiry immedi-
ately, and they would Rod that LOrd Nclfon's Fleet
was more than adequate, in every refpe9, to the
French.fleff, Of eourfe, than adequate provilion was
madi on the part of Minifters in that quarter. The
Right Honourable Gentlsman combated the various
arguments of his Right Honourable Friend in favour
of the motion, and contended that two thirds of his
Hon. Friend's (peed) made againit the motion. From
the motion itfelf, he fa* no good that could arife—
nor could he conteive it to have any other objea in
vkii, thaw to exprefs a little fpleen, and to proclaim
an unfounded want of confidence in his Majefly's
Minifters.
Mr. WINDHAM Rated in explanation, that his
meaning was, that Parliament fhould continue to fit,
and not vote the money required, until it should
prove to be aaually neceffary-thus any improper
confidence in Minifters would be guircied *pion.
Lord TEMPLE fupported the motion of his Ho.
nourable Friend at great length, and particularly ar-
gued, that, if his Majefly was not yet in a fituation
that enabledhim to, make any communication to the
Honfe, refpealng his Foreign Relations, they fhould
at kat continue to fit, and by that means be iii the
fame fituation as. at the beginning of the Stilton.—
Wbat they wanted was, that they Ortuld not be put out
di a &illation is Which they Might receive iommlioi-

IP •I

cations when ready to- be mnde. The (urn lei: at the
difpofal of the Minilicr, trrs no doubt great but it
was not the amount to whicir he objected—it was to
the principle, which he regarded as uncond tutional
and unprecedented. The Vote of Credit alluded to

in the year 17.99, was very different. There was in
that cafea fpecific object to which the money was to
be applied. There WAS an esilling alliance and an
engagement had been formed ; but here there was no
precife objet fubmited to the Houfe. The one was
a real, the other an eventual expence. There was a
great difference, he contended, between adjournment
and prorogation. In the one cafe they were certain
or the day of meeting ; but in the other, whatever
might Oe the fituationof the cr untry, whatever calls
there might befor the di aribution of the public money,
the,' cnpaid have no controul over it.
• Mr. FOX then role and delivered his fentiments at
confiderable length. The coellion before the Houle,
he faid, was one of Inch importance, one foiutimately
conneted with the privileges of Parliament, that he
could not reconcile it to his duty to give a fleet vote,
though his Hon. Friend had evinced fo much ability
in his opening obfervations,'las in a great meafure to
have exhaufled the firbjeet. He fully agreed with '
what had been advanced about the Rate of our fi-

nances, and maintained, that fence the recommence-
ment of botlilitiec, eighty millions had been added
to our national debt. When the war broke out as
affurance Was given that no more money would be
required fir thl public fervice than what the pay-
ments of the Curnmillioners for Difchiiging the Na-
tional Debt could completely cover, and that promife
had heed grofsly fair:tied, and the Noble Lord came
forward with a moil carious anfwer on the occafion.
He contended, that all which was meant by the pro-
mile was, that if our expenditure fliould fuffer no in-
creafe, or, in other words, if what we had to defray
were kept within certain limits,we fhould not be under
the neceffity of b atowing additional money. This was
ahfohriely trifling the feelings of the Houfe, and
at the time the promVe was given Minifters mutt have •
forefeen that vall additional expences were indifpeo-*
fible. But, Pays the Noble Lord, marital there are
two years of war, and two filch years of war 1 For
his part he had yet to learn what thefe two years of
war had produced, of what exertions had been to ac-
c,lmplifh the end- of the conceit. It was indeed
impoflible to look forward to two yeari of greater abv
fence of all adivity or energy. Refpeeing the Elate
of the army, he thould make only one or two obferl
'pions. The fubjed was to come before the Houfq
in a more regular form in a few days, and he had no
doubt, from the high talents of the Hon. Officer whtl
was to bring the bioinefs under confideration, &tint
much important and valuable ir formation world be
received. The Houfe, indeed, txithout being very
linguine;, could reefunably hope for tome plan far
More efficient than any which the Right Honour-
able Gentleman's Parifh Bill affected to furnith. Of
that Bill he might fafely apply Dr. Johnfon's obfer.
ration of one of Poems of Offian. He was stilted,
if the Poem was not the authentic production at
Man, who could be the author ? His anfwer--.
Many men, many women, and many childeren."
He corroborated what Mr. Grey had Rated of thd
increafe in fair naval tot ce, and animadverted very
feverely on the efedpe of the Toulon and itcxthermre
fqnadronr, without being at all traced by our crui-
zers. As to the fyftem of blockading, he believed it
was neither univerfally right nor univerfally wrong,
but this he would fay, that the blockade of Tooled
appeared to have been firangely neglefted. He be4l:
Red it to he underitood, that he was far from infino...
acing any thing to the prejudice of Lord Nitr'jp,
whom, on the critrary, he believed to be one or, the
moltgallant as well as vigilant Officers in dm fervice.
After the French fleet efcaped out of Toul on in Ja-
nuary, Minifters ought to have known that they bad
come out of the Mediterranean, and th•at there was
a Freat number of troops on board. A 'World time
Knitters ought to have been &met apprised of their
intended movement ; h,tt in March the fleet again
make their efcape, and I_:ord Nelfon is left in total
ignorance of their ccurfe. They arrive undiflurbed
at Cadiz, drive off our blockading fquadron, effect
a jam:lion with the Spaniards, Fail again, and now,
after an interval of near 'three months, Miniflets
cannot even form a conietture of their deftination.
—This betrayed the utmost degree of fupinenefs,
ignorance, and inattention to the molt important de-
partment of the public fervice. Mr. Fox next
touched on the tlate of Irelind, and though he ad-
mitted its fit-nation to be confiderably improved,
declared, that in his opinion its tranquillity wend{
never be fully fecured, till Catholic Emancipa-
tion Oxould be conceded. He paid rome compli-
ments to the character of Lord Hardwicke, though
there were eircurnfrances in his conduct, which it was
impoffible for him n•)tto condemn. His temperance
and moderation had prodliced confiderable benefite,
but he Was thwarted in his views by other individuals,
high in the frith Government. As long as one Right
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Foliar) continued to
have any influence, the ()hieds of the Lord Lieute-
nant could never be fully accomplillied. He earnestly
recommended to Miniders to take fome Reps to man.
quillize effetitially the people of Ireland. There
were many local improvements fhort of abfolute eman-
cipation, which were highly important, and thole
who refufed the one were bound, even in common
juiliee, to concede the other. After going over thee
heads the Honourable Member took op the dired
confideration of the fubjed. He could not, as an
honeft Member of the Houfe, content to grant any
part of the public money without knowing to
pnrpofe it was to he applied. Here, however, X
not a tittle of information to guide the opinion of
the Node. Neither the nature of the confidential
relations, the exifience of any treaty, or even the
names of the conic-aiding panics were at all fpeciAed.
He did not mean to fay, that Minifiers were culpa.
ble for withholding the information. All that he
alked was, let the Honk adjourn from time to time,
till it can with fefety be communicated. Bin it was
aid, there was no difference betwixt a prorogation
and an adjournment.—The difference was hiking.
The one was the ad of Minilteia, and the other was
the aft of the Houfe ilia He was at all times a
foe to implicit confidence, and he had additional re-
lons fir not giving confidence to his Idaleity's confi-
dential let Tants. Pe r eetobated the manner in which
they originally came together, and fpoke in terms of
indignation of their aukward refignations, and their
curious reconciliations on no better grounds. He
lamented the cailtasse of a Oast of minas* at this