Star.
London, England, 1822-02-12 00:00:00


~- -; .-

wara-
naintrox. and We R.Witsore,, the latter postponed his Motion
until 'Thursday aesx
Mr. COKE wisherttotnow from a Right Hon. Gentleman
ite, whether way relaxation had taken place respeetiorthe
Ofseiliery Laws? A report bad generally prevailed that sock
wirhterhe ease.
'CHANCELLOR at the EXCHEQUER said, s MiP
take bad been very prevalent respecting these laws ; and the
supposed alteration was merely an explanation of the laws,
which he had directed to be seat to those who were interested
in the subject.
THE DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY.
*Mr. BROUGHAM began by saying, that in ri
to call the attention of the House to the distr
under which the country was labouring, he was not
insensible to the great importance of that question.
He felt the weight and the magnitude of the subject
cm-which he was about entering. It might, per-imps;
be a cause of surprise to many, that he should bring
on a questiuti of that nature. He was well aware
that there were many Hon. Gentlemen in that House
whose talents and whose pursuits enabled them to do
the subject more justice than •he could pretend to. He
would have rather his Hon. Friend, the Member fpr
Ester (Mr. Western) had undertaken the task which
had fallen on him. Although he differed from that Hon.
Gent. in some material points, yet he should be very
happy the question had been brought on by him. At the
risk, lrowe4er, of all disadvantages under which the
discussion might labour in his hands, he would en-
deavour to bring it forward,' although it might hap-
pen that .he could give but little salisfaction to any
of the great interests which the question involved.
After all that had been said upon the subject, the
great market for.the produce or manufacture of any
country was its internal market. He had learned,
and from sources that he could not •doubt, that the
state of the manufacturing towns and districts was
not by any means so bad as was represented ; he had
also learned that the profits on the goods seat to fo-
reign markets were much less than at any former
period. One consequenee of that disappointment
was a determination on tile part of the manufacturers
to lessen the quantity of their manufactures. Within
the last ten days a Meeting had been held of the iron
masters on the subject, and the result was an agree-
ment to resort to that unhappy experiment of re-
dicing the quantity of their business, their last Christ-
mas balance having turned out to be much less than
the preceding one. The consequence to be expected
front this determination would be, that a number of

~- '~-:~~ Pte'. .

years, already
sufficient psi
and the '
'equal to ,
came . ;without
minadon

year 1806,ithe wain.. _ country
79i millimill; in 1890 the expenses were 76 millions,
being a relief of four 'nations between the second.
1 ear of war and the sixth year of peace, so that we
nd the expense of *BO6 was only one million more
an in 1890, and the revenue was nearly thiksatuni
,The Learned Gentleman here entered into a trail
of argumms, to prove that the boasted improvement.
of the revenue was fallacious, panic-0%1.1y with re-
ference to Ireland, the net revenue having been 41
millions in 1818; in 1820, 8 millions; and in 1821,
about four millions; so that the late improvement
did not bring it up to its amount in 1818. The re-
venue of this country, independent of loans, was this
year, sixtt-one millions; last year it was sixty mil-
' lions ; the revenue of this year was one million more
than in 1806; and thatof last year nearly equal $ its
so that in the sixth year of peace, one million more
was drawn from the people than in the second year
of war. This he could not trace to any connexion
with the state or nature of the currency. It was only
in 1800 that any depreciation could be observed WI
commence in the exchanges and currency caused by
1 the substitution of paper for gold. In 1800 the,
standard price of gold was ES. 17s.10id. per ounce.
The bullion price was £4. ss. being a depreciation of
nine and one-tenth per cent. It afterwards fell and
fluctuated, and these fluctuations hada most injurious
influence upon trade, for in some instances it amounted
to thirty per cent. He stated this, bearing in his re-
collection the declaration of the Right Honourable
Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that
Bank notes had never suffered a depreciation.—

- I

The market price of gold was in 1811 and 1812,
£4. 19s. lid. per ounce, being a depression of twenty-
seven per cent. The meanie of these years was 73i
millions. If it were desired to ascertain how much
that amounted to in gold, for the purpose of proving
the sum really paid by the people, nineteen millions
must be deducted from that sum, being the difference
(twenty-seven, per cent.) between the excess in the
price of gold. Having returned to a metallic cur-
rency, we now pay in fact between seven and eight
millions more than in the years of war 1811 and
1812. [Some murmurs here took place on the
Ministerial side of the House, when the Honourable
Gentleman said be was ready to abandon the position
he had taken, and rest his calculation on the price of
gold at £4. 10s. per ounce, even by which it would
be found that we pay this year in sovereigns one
million more than we did in those years in guineas
—.Weer). In those years we had every sea filled
with our fleets—every foreign port with our expedi-
tions—every foreign Court with oar subsidies. Nor
were we free at home from perils and dissention.
Temps me:, periculorus *sera Tarifa midi.
What would the House think when it found that, in
the years 1813, 1814,. and 1815. 'those years of in:
ordinate profusion—those years in which we squan.
dered 140 or 150 millions per annum, what would
the House think when it would find that, in this very
' year, the people pay, in taxes, as much as they did
in those.years of war?—(Hear)..—.£s per ounce, was,
in 1813, 1814, and 1815, the average price of gold,
answering to a difference with the present price of 28
per cent. If the Revenue were reduced by so much
(nearly 43} millions), 61 millions only would be left,
which differed very little from the amount of the Re-
venue of this present year--(Hear). The Learned
Gentleman here argued, that by the change of cur-
, reney four millions had been added to the iblZei; and,
not content with that, three millions of new taxes had
been laid on, in order to crush the people to the earth
by their weight. These taxes had been laid on in the
dark—the blow bad been, given without knowing
where it would light. There existed great difference
of opinion en the effect of taxation on a count;
but there were some points on which all must agree—
first, that the great expenditure of capital must have
the necessary effect of increasing prices—not merely
while that expenditure was going on, but after k.had
ceased altogether. The consequence was, that the
capital being diminished, the profits on the remain-
der of capital must be 'increased in the same ratio ;
that was undeniable, by a rule that had always been
received. A diminution of the capital stock of a
country has the effect of raising the prices—this he
could not too often impress upon the House. It would
ROL be denied by those even most favourable to taxa-
tion, that the people are injured in proportion to the
amount raised k but it was equally undeniable that
another effect was produced in this way: the person
who first pays the tax must either increase his capital
or diminish his stock, if he wish that the amount of
his profits should not be decreased. For example, if
a maltster or brewer paid 105.6 d. a bushel for malt,
that it was increased to 18s. Bd. per bushel, and af-
terwards to 28s. or 345. per bushel, it would be found
that the capital of such brewer or maltster was thereby
reduced. One consequence of this would -be the ex-
clusion of small capitals. He hardly recollected one
instance where it wasin contemplation to reduce a
heavy tax, that the great capitalist had not petitioned
for its continuance—and he particularly instanced the
leather trade. The farmer complained that the tax
increased the price of his gear—the small farmer that
it excluded him from trade. The great farmer begged
that the tax might be continued, in order, no doubt,
to prevent competition—(Hear). The effect of taxa-
tion was, if possible, more objectionable, by its ten-
dency to increase price and lessen competition. The
seller of the article adds enough to compensate him-
self for his advance of capital by an addition to the
price of metre than the tax laid on. The tax goes on
to increase in such a ratio that by the time it reaches
the consumer the tax paid to Government is lost in
comparison with the increase laid on by the interme-
diate hands through which the article taxed has past.
The House was aware of the enormous expenditure,
and of the enormous sums to defray it, which were
levied on the people ; but if the House could conceive,
how much more was taken fr 0.41 the people than went
into the coffers of Government, it would not be con-
sidered surprising that the people should be. discon-
tented, Suppose a Gentleman in 1790, when the
taxes were 16 millions, could live comfortably on ten
thousand a year, paying his proportion of the 18 mil-
lions of taxes, how much less must not his fortune
be now, when the tubs are sixty millions ? But he

persons would be deprived of employment, but the
manufacturers, insoead of that, lowered the price of
labour. The distress that would naturally follow may
be easily ci.nceived. Although it was not his inten-
tion to go through the history of the country specifi-
cally for the last twenty years, yet he felt it.oeces-
sary
to make allusions to the state of trade, the taxes.
and the currency, for that period. He held it to be
perfectly impossible- -thar i nation could persist with
impunity in the course Weds we have been follow-
ing for so many years. He should take only three of
those pears for the purposes of illustration, those
1818; 1814, and 1815. The expenses of those three
years averaged -£132,000;000 per annum—(Near)—
including, of course, the expenses of managing and
colletting.the Revenue, which amounted to between
four and five millions. He included those charges
for a•very obvious reason—the view of the Revenue
would be incomplete without it. If to these 132 mil-
lions were added the- Poor and County Rates, which
averaged eight or nine millions per annum, the gross
sum paid in those years would be found to average
upwards of-£140,000,000 per annum for each of
these three years—(,Hear, hear).—He would not use
a harsh word which suggested itself to him, and
would merely say that the enormous, he would say,
almost incredible sum of £420,000,000 was taken
from the pockets of the people within the short space
of three years. In the year 1814, the sum paid was
£loooo,Boo—(Hear).—The expense of each year,
exclusive of the Interest of the debt, was 83 millions.
The Revenue was 84 millions. Se that at the ter-
mination of that prosperous year we had one million
of Revenue applicable to the payment of upwards of
sixty millions—(Hear, hear).—lf a man in private
life were similarly circumstanced with the nation—if
with an income of £5,000 per annum, he spent
£lO,OOO per annum, and that he was obliged to bor-
row almost every farthing to pay the interest of his
debt, by what word should he describe that man's
state ?—(Hear, hear.)—What name should he apply
.to the man himself? Whatever that word was, some-
thing of the same kind was applicable to this coun-
try, and to the state of the funds. Having seen 4.00
millions spent in three years, 250 millions of which
were independent of the taxes levied on the people—
he would ask, which was that, a wasteful or a pru-
dent expenditure?—(Hear, hear)—He should now
make some reference to the Finance Committee of
1815. The House would bear in mind in what man-
ner that Committee had been formed ; the Gentle-
men composing it wire, in fact, the nominees of the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer): any reflections coming from such a
source would, of course,_ be entitled to attention. He
would not trouble the House with many extracts, but
that which he was about to read was, in his mind,
very impotent. The Hon. Gentleman here read an
extract from the Report of the Committee of Finance,
which complained that buildings and repairs had
been entered upon inconsiderately, and without a
proper degree of attentiouto the expense. It com-
plained that there was no cileck—qo protection
against profusion—but that' the expenses were
adapted. to the views of thoe.disinterested persons
who presided over the works (A laugh). He begged
particular attention to that Report, because it con-
tained snore matter worthy of remark than if a man
was tospeak for thirty years, and with the voice of
an angel. Even in the Ordnance Office itself, the
Committee could find no documents to enable them
to fosp a just and comprehensive view of the ex-
pense—(Hear)--and in that irregular general way
upwards of nine millions had been spent. The works
proceeded upon a wrong principle, indeed none such
ought ever to have been attempted. The plans were
objectionable, but the molt* was infinitely worse.
Hadia Committee of that House investigated those
exonses, which men of common honesty must have
Acne, those millions of the people's money would not
have been so uselessly squandered. The sums taken
from the pockets of the people in those three years
amounted to £274,000,000, including the parish and
county ratat.—(lkar, hear). When Mr. Pitt first in-
troduced the Sinking Fund, the whole debt of the
cuuuuy was 1:230,00QA00; so that in those three

•-r
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on iron. No lull quiet times followed the so.
icemen of this measure, as was the case wise.
agriculturist was to be taxed; it was no lone,
poor sheep led up to be shorn: the Menem" qf
House were besieged ; his Noble and ltighe met.
_ near him were besieged and everpeweard
the remonstrances of the mane facturen, dread
from the iron country, less malleable than the oleo/
between the tacos lit both periods being as four to one‘ their. native soil. A war was bept up, with an ar.
All the expenses of viticulture were increased, also, dour and perseverance that nothing could mile, (us
in a fottefeildproportiOn. It was much more natural Hon. and Noble Friends who bore the brunt ce...the
'to inquire how taxes had been raised, than how they ution—who abided
had been made wail so heavy on-the people: The —" The peidne of this pkiless storm;
They
rented, adopted by tome landlords, of voluntarily , on whose heads came down
This ken sleet of strawy shower"—
reducing their rents,although arising, no doubt, from
Ywofastheinssilstheedn.. The
c.ould bear testimony to the unabated firemen.
a most amiable enotivet he could not help feeling wai ,may
come.
a verrireadetrate remedy. The. farmer complains ingenuity,
was, that
ettocieuutnc
that he is selling his produce at 20s. per quarter less 4 wa ant
man then say, that the pressure on the farmer itd
it he can raise it fort and, taking the average price
the manufacturer was the same? Would ail
of land, he complains of a fall of 30s. per acre—
attempt to state, that the agricultural iiiterest left V ,
(Novi). 'What relief, therefore, could a reduction of
'erg of the Government? Let the House considee -
es .
20 br SO per cent. on his rent bato the farmer, the not in an infinitely worse Imam by the partial deal. .
whole rent not being 90s. per acre?--(Heger, hear)—.
addition to this, the increase of the poor-rates 1:
I%
• in • ):roar
had
millions, whichwas amount 1792, tber
His (Mr. Brougham's) objection to that was, that, al.
gone on until thee bad reached in the trig•Qat
though ruinous to the landlord, it was useless to the
tenant—(Hear). If the reduction enabled tbefarmev '!" .
year to eight millions; and now they rested, he be,
to cultivate land ar3os. per acre less than he does at
present, then indeed he would be relieved; but that . somewhere. Tiered, about six
th ent.that the only means in their power of relic ong
being impossible, the reduction of a proportion of the
rent could be of little or no service to him—(Hear),,
the distress of (he-agricultural interest, was by a di_
ta.nintltio.n of the amount of taxes—(Hear, hear). That
the diminution of the total amount of the burdens;
The mode of relief contemplated by raising the price
of produce, was still more objectionable—(Hear).—
that the taking off of some paltry-sum—such as one
Everything had been done to ensure to the farmer a
.o ; butmilli
"that
and a half, or two millions....
.at some such reduction must
duction—(Hear). The Report of the Board of Agri-
fair remunerating price, and beyond that the House million, d
not
a,
or a
could not go, until it had reduced the price of pro-
would
take place that would make it possible for the farmer
culture stated that between the years 1792 and 1813,
to live as yell as thenther ckisses in the country, had
the cost of raising produce had increased one-half, now become absolutely and indispensably necessary.
and that, in 1813, it was double what it had been in He had sbewn; that under the name of paying less in
1792. He found that what cost taxes, the countrybad actually paid more than it d d
before the war. He had shewn that the burdens of
In 1792 ate' the country amounted to' nearly one million more
Was in 1603 - - -118 s.
And in 1815 - - - -160 s. than they had in the most extravagant year. The
And yet between the year 1813 and the present time, Honourable Gentleman contended, he had shown
t
notwithstanding the depreciation of the price of pro- that more was paid at the present time in taxes, than
even lit the year 1804, when the money wa taken
duce, no dimieution in that of labour had taken
out of the people's pockets without scruple, and
place—(Hear, hear).—lt would be seen, that the
yielded upon the salemn pledge of the Goveriment„
expenses of cultivation were increased to he fanner
that with rani of peace would come reduction of
half as much as they stere in 1792. He believed
taxes. Rut ncon peace was,eome; hot not with healing
that the increase might rather be stated at two-thirds.
in its wings. There W 4 no reduction—for he could
The pressure of the taxes, whatever it-might be on
only consider
,saif diet :had been done in reduction
every other class in the State, would be found to fall
amounted merely -to tvbat was necessary to be heaviest upon the agricultural interest. The farmer
in orifet•to Meet the change effected by the
re-
had less the power than any other man to accom- .ducedt
adjostuteni &At_ enrrencY. • Here he should state,
modate his supply to the demand; he was affected by
the operation of the seasons and accidents of the ele-
that heentertained great difference of opinion with
many of his* friends on the subject of the operations
ments in a greater degree than any other man. A tax
Of the restored tuirefity.--He had not been a Member
on a falling market was injurious to the grower, as
of the Secret Committee who drew up the recommen-
he could not shift it to the consumer. The manoiac-
dation finally acted upon, not because he was unwilling
turer was better off. Low prices, it was said, always
corrected themselves in the increased consumption, to undertake a part of the duties of inquiring into the
subject, but, as it happened, because he v. as thought
and so they would but for the taxes. The increase
unworthy by his Majesty's Ministers. He felt infinitely
of consumption, with a low price, would be equal to
honoured by the rejection of him on that occasion by
a less consumption with a larger price ; but when the
Ministers, because the like rejection was made in the
tax-gatherer came the price increased, but on a dif-
case of one of thegreatest ornaments of that House.—
ferent principle indeed from that which would benefit
He (Mr. Brougham) was prevented by this exclusion
the farmer. By adverting to the price of malt, they
in the first place, and afterwards by illness, from pre.
would see that it was reduced in price one-fourth in
testing against that unfortunate measure. It wa: l.c
the course of the last twenty years. The consequence
from his intention to blame those who had a hand in
would be, that if there were no Chancellors of the
,
that plan which was finally carried into execution.
indemnify the consumption would increase so as to
the farmer for the reduction. But there —All his reproaches were pointed againt the fad
were, unfortunately, Chancellors of the Exchequer; policy of 1797, which fist distorted the face of pub-
,add it would be seen, that in consequence of the im- lic affairs by overturning the system of our currency,
provident imposition of taxes, the article of malt, and entailed that long succession of evil; on e:e
which, according to all principles, ought to increase country, against which it was impossiele to proviL:n
in consumption as it diminished in price, did actually any remedy that was not an evil in itself. Ti:at N‘ as
decrease in consumption. In the first three years of the not the time for him to disclose all the views i'.e er.-
war, the quantity of malt which paid Excise—or, in tertained upon the question ; but this he could not
other words, the quantity of malt consumed, was, refrain from stating, that sufficient attention had not
on the average, 5,500,000 quarters. In 1818, 1819, been paid by the Committee, either in their exarni-
-1840, it came down to 2,900,000 quarters, being a nation of evidence, or in the policy of the measure
reduction of nearly one-seventh. This fact was enough which they produced, to the enormous debt of ti:e
without any comment. Instead of decreasing, the country—(lieer).—lle should consider it a great mis-
consumption should have increased within the time, fortune that they had nbt been more comprehensive
because it would be found that the population of this n their views ; that instead of 'leaning but :o on.:
country 'increased from 11,954,000, in 1811, to aspect of the great question, they had given their
14,069,000: and from ten millions, which it was in attention to all the weighty considerations which
1801, to fourteen millions ; thus shewing an increase arose out of the question. He would repeat, then,
in twenty years of four millions of persons. The popu- that relief—saving relief, must be immediate, and
lation then increased, and the consumption diminish- that that relief must come out of the reduction of
ing, who was there that did pretend to say that the the taxes. He believed that there was not one man
farmer was not placed in a worse condition by the on the bench opposite—that there was not one man
pressure of a particular tax than any other man ? In in or out of that House, who did not feel in the but-
illustration of the position that there was a greater torn of his soul that relief could behad by no other
pressure on the farmer, he would allude to the tax measure except by a diminution of the public burdens
on beer. The duty paid on malt, hops, and beer, —(Hear, hear).—Still, after all the arcs of economy
amounted to £8,000,000. He begged to ask, where had been exhausted, after retrenchment had been car-
was the instance of having so much raised by any reed to its utmost extent, still, in his opinion, the pres-
trade, as was raised out of one of those staple com. sure on the country would be very considerable.—
modities? But it would be seen, that taxes on But then the country, after such reduction, would be
all articles of general consumption fell more inju- more able to endure their burdens. Why, it woeld
riously on the agricultural class. The duty on soap, be asked, was not the country able to bear low prices,
salt, leather, &c. went directly to raise the price of as in 1792? So it would, if there were no taxes. Bit
labour on the farmer. It was not true, besides, that it would have been a consideration for the Committee,
these taxes affected the farmer merely as they affected inlBl9,what the situation of the agriCultuial man teas.
other classes. The article of salt, for instance, was They should have recollected that not only would lie
consumed, it was well known, in very large quan- have to contribute, by the restoration of the currency,
cities by the farmer. Indeed, he had it from good a larger real amount, but also that the same thing mast
authority, that in Cheshire, and the adjoining places, take place in every case of debt between individuals.
so great was the use of salt amongst the agricultu. They should have remembered that the depreciation
rests, that the consequence of the tax on salt was a re- of the currency encouraged speculations amongst the
duction of rents by five per cent. But he would refer farming interest, as well as amongst other cht-a:,, as
to every man's experience who heard him, if he did the Gazette would inform them from time to fret:—
not consider the tax on salt a tax on economy ? that men were induced to embark on those specnla.
Again, let it be considered that. the elanufacturer tions who never dreamt of such things. This state
had resources which were out of the reach of the of things had a result on the farming interest espe-
farmer. Thus, for instance, against the increase of cially, which it was for the Committee of 1819 io
the price of labour, he had a resource in machinery ; take into consideration. It was triumphantly sa:J,
in the improving—in the extending of it. But the that the farmer had his day of prosperity. He stated
farmer could not do that. A remarkable instance of before the advantages of the manufacturer over the
the difference of the situations of the farmer and ma- farmer, with respect to their share of public bur-
aufacturer was afforded in a recent instance. The dens. The monied man laid out his capital to the
farmer, it was well known, was obliged to use cattle greatest advantage; he indulged in speculations, and
in the cultivation of the soil.' But very soon the Chan- he believed it would not be denied that great in efit
cellor of the Exchequer found out a tray of raising a I was the result. Would it be said that the man w!:0
revenue from that. Now let the House look at the ; lent 150 or £56 to Government, and was entitled to
difference of the same tax being imposed on the dif.; £lOO, was not served during the war ? It even lie
ferent classes. Iron was the manufacturer's cattle— I had been paid only the nominal amount at this me-
it was employed by him as a substitute for labour,iment (the interest of course, out of the question), he
Fortunately, steam was too subtle and dangerous an 1 would, by virtue of the restoration of the currency,
article to be meddled with, or the Chancellor of the be a gainer by '25 per cent. Let it not be said that
.Exchequer would' ; have bound it down in trammels • all was gain on the side of the fanner. Every chill.
long ago—but being too subtle and unyieldinga thing Ihe dealt in rose in price—his rent mse—the price in
for his grasp, the Itiviltt Hon. Gentleman chose to lay I commodities rose ; and lie bad to pay an Income T.tx,
his baud on the machine itself; so he actually props:m.4g which wen to the levee an as( valorem duty von tits
t• .

•
heady alluded to,,fitinwtaiplat a uswelto . would eontenc4 the inslividnal in *tan en
ato pay off the sake Mat at thscredad r soirr much miiNe by- his P"Pnttlika none
inter of which threffteari expenditure artivi laid all ithitlirticles 6f eonsimpit the nivil
the whole expenseX'of the •auntry. Peace *,tn the mann p &sifted. .It was tidied the poo:
rithout ICS usual attendant, After the ter- irk*, :therefor% to meth,* no part of the distress lb that Ho
nof the war. it Was natural to expect that the sehersily felt was attributable to the taxes.gfear). Friends
of the people should be lightened. In the He paid now much mamas a consumer, and received with the
06.the_Whole expense* of the country were Much less as a landlord, than in 1792: the difference from thi
_ &wawa.. the ea a.m. ea lanais fterloaa liabirter ea feint. to Oft& their nx