Star.
London, England, 1815-02-24 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY' PROCEEDINGS.

r
HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 23.

l'he LORD CHANCELLOR took his Not en the Woolsack
,bout the usual hour; and after prayers were read, an adjourn-
:heat during pleasure took Nam
On the resuming of the House,
Mr. Codicil, from the Stamp Oflee, presented an Amount of
the Number of Country Banks, from which promissory notes
were issued, &c during the year ending sth of January last.
ViscoUnt MELVILLE presented *Petition from certain parts
of the County of Haddinvou, in favour of a speedy revision of
the Corn Laws, which was ordered to Ile on the table.
Mr. Irving, Inspector-General of the Customs, presented au
Account of the quantity of Grain imported into Great Britain,
from Ireland and pans abroad, during the year ending fith of
January last ; distinguishing the species of Grain, Prices, Pont,
which was ordered to lie on the table.

TRIAL BY JURY nr SCOTLAND.
The Order of the Day, upon which their Lord-
ships were summoned, being read;
The LORD CHANCO..I. roe to move the
second rending of the Bill, reawated him
former evening. far facilitating*
justice in Scotland, by ettenclieg
co certain Civil Causes. The -Noble

Lord prefaced his motion by a .
;path, in which be observed, that
or object of the Bill in question.).
much difference of opinion. apaciall,
known to be the general wish and

ple for whom the measure was
benefits of the Trial by Jury should
civil causes in that country. For
3 hearty and anxious wish was
:ountry, though UMW shades of
as to the most effectual modes of

Tii.tl by Jury in other cases had
Wished in Scotland, and its benefits
certainly was of opinion, that am
in a system of so much importance .
Sy the Bill, would best be done grade
manner the most desirable to those

the change was intended. He-adaa
!c) the present Bill, there must be
upn its clauses in the Committee ,
question now then before the' Hon"
whether they should make the nirora
the Trial by Jury to the extent wlich
poses to in:roduce it I and on
trusted their Loedskips would give
to the Bill. His Lordship then
second reading.
The Earl of 1110)tTON ibtartained
the beneficial effects of the proposed
veral obstacles lay in the two '
blishments. In inmost /en of
Noble Earl referred le tunnies pens
of the Court et Session--aha stork
prevailed in the country in
other Meta* eopien Urfa
to think the adoption of the
tended with the most serious comeqeences.
Earl STANHOPE spoke at some length upon the
subject, and made a variety of observations, more or
less hostile to the particular measure under the con-
sideration of their Lordships. Did the Noble and
Learned Lord move a Resolution equally in favour
of the establishment of Jury Trial in Scotland ? He
believed there 'could not be one dissentient voice;
but even of the principle of the present Bill, he
strongly disapproved. He also doubted much of the
general sentiment in Scotland being in favour of such
a measure as that before the House. There was one
prominent feature in the Bill, that struck him as an
ineconcileable ainconpuity, vis. that the Bill pro.
fessed that the Trials by Jury should be confined to
matters of fact; yet the Judge was directed in it to
direction to the Jury in matters of law. The N 0..,
Isle and Learned Lord should at least have explained
how they could proceed upon those inconsistent
Clauses. The Noble Earl expatiated on the benefi-
cial importance of the general establishment of the
Trial by Jury, as in England, in a constitutional as,
well as a legal point of view, and referred copiously
to the dcta of Lord Chief Justice Vaughan, of the
Court of Common Pleas, in support of his opinions.
In this, the prominent point was the establishment of
the consideration, that Juries were Judges of the law
as well as of the fact: and he also referred to the es-
tablishment of the new Court of Exchequer in Scot.
land, in the Bth of Queen Anne, which went, so the,
to establish the Trial of Jury therein, fully as in
England, and the Barons wets invested with Ow
Powers of equity as wen as law, as in the latter. The
way in which the benefits dun; Jury Trials were pre+
hired by the present menu* and those Match save
rise to it, reminded him of sba man who publicly for a wife at the Opera. =Yin .;
the Ladies,'o win you Many—tor Yely a
This not r,•
s proposition, so coming from a gong!,
met with a general negative from those to *hooka
was addressed. .flo he believed it was with respdtt
to the present Jury proposhion. (A largh.)—li snit-
ther point of view he disapproved of the present met-
sure ; it may (though certainly not intended so by the
Noble and Learned- Lord), eventually because a job;
the limited duration of the Bill was also a point
which he disapproved. In short, he deemed the mea-
inre as proposed, rather an insult to the peoples
olough not offered by the Noble and Learned Lord j
and though he was not exactly a co
yet he
had too much honest Scotch blood in his composition
not to vote against the second reading of the pew
ant
Lord GRENVYLLE cordially approved of the
Bill's going to a Committee, were it only to cadets-
your to free it from imputed imperfections- Tholds"
6141 question they seemed to be, whether it wenld
be beneficial to Scotland to extend the Trial by Jury
into Scotland ? and that admitted, the House would
best discharge its duty, by proceeding to consider of
It
mode in which it mild most effectually be done.
t would be very desirable if they could chalk MN
Certain lines in the Committee, and lay down eat*
Eases in ',hid) titre trial by jury could apply. He adl‘.
wed from his Noble Relation cis several points, sad

was of opinion the subject generally could be best
discussed in a Committee.

The Earl of*LAUDZIEDALE followed, an] ex.
pressed his opinion in favour of going into a Com-
mittee upon the Bill: There were several points that
could hest he discussed in that stage, as there was
much of the Bill that he could wish to see amended.
The people of Scotland, from the experience they
had 1,1 the heowtits of the Trial by Jury, would natu-
rally wish to sea them extended, and it may be pointed
out by Parliament before-hand what cases were fit to
go before a Jury. In conclusion, his Lordship ad-
verted to some points which he conceived to have been
advanced by the Peer who spoke second in the dis-
cussion, and which called up,
The Earl of MORTON shortly. in explanation.
Viscount MELVILLE was decidedly in.favour of
the measure, and felt convinced that in a very short
Period'those who should experience tbebenefits of the
proposed - nation, would - forward -
their -

. the _isth-
Keller of the Poor. He would also move on that day for heave
to Mug in a 11U1 to alter and amend the 22d of kis present Ma-
jesty, so far as related to the Employment of the Poor.
Mr. BF.iNINErT wished to ask if an Honourable Friendof bis
Csert
r.iHi;iforil) meant to bring forward a motion, which he had
had it in • contemplation to make, for an enquiry into
the state of the Hulks? •

Mr. HOI.FORD had not changed his intention, but had not
yet brought the subject forward, as he knew it was under the
consideration of Government, and the question must come regu-
larly before the House in the course of the Session, as the Bill
for continuing the use of the Hulks would expire.
Mr. BENNE nr then inquired of a Right Honourable Gen- 11
&man (Mr. H. Addington) ff such a measure was likely to NO
brought forward ?
Mr. H. ADDINGTON stated the subject to he under consi-
deration, but he was not yet authorised to state the course to be
taken was determined upon.
Sir J. SHAW obtained leave to bring In a Bill to regulate the
practice of Apothecaries.
The House went into a Committee on the 52d of the King,
respecting Excise Licenses, the report of which Mill ordered to
be received to-morrow.
Ois the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
the Bank Restriction Bill wet reed a second time, and con-
mined for Monday.

*LAVI TRADE.

Ms. HORNER, before the House went into a
Committee on the Corn Laws, wished to ask the
Right Honourable Gentleman opposite a sluestian
on the conduct of Government with respect to the
Slave Trade. A publication bad recently appeared
under the authority of a person, who was an agent
of the African Society, in the colony of Sierra
Leone, in which he stated, that of three persons of
the names of Brodie, Cooke, and Dunbar, convicted
in that settlement of being concerned in carrying on
the Slave Trade, and sentenced to transportation,
two et them, viz. Cooke and Dunbar had bad, or
were about to have, their 111111180110 remitted. He
wished to know, if it was the intention of Govern.
meet to interpose between the law and persons con-
victed of so serious an offence t In asking this geoi-
d," he thought it right to state, that he put very
Rule confidence in the statement to which he had re-
ferred, or to any other contained in the publication
be had mentioned.
Mr. H. ADDINGTON said, there was not the
shadow of a foundation for the assertion, to which
die Honourable and Learned Gentleman had alluded.
Vie individuals in question had been confined -on
beard the Hulks, where it was intended they should
smnain until their sentence could be canted into of.
ibet. In consequence of the representations made of
ill health of the parties, which fact bad been
'shed on the best authority, they had for a tints
lelm exempted from the severe labour which those
sobs were there confined were compelled to perform.
. 'dons bad since been received from them, and
minas bad been disposed to attend to the prayer,
them; but within these few days difficulties bad
arisen involving certain legal points, which had
made the Secretary for the Hone Department think
b in submit the MN to the consideration of
de jaw Wiens of the Crown, and no decision op
it hail yet taken place.
• Mr. HORNER was satisfied with the answer. In
peados the question be had not the onallett crisps*
lit interim with the cane Ministers

•

think it their duty to pursue. Their conduct • ap..
peared to have been perfectly correct in considering
whether the punishment awarded ought to be carried.
into effect, if the sentence appeared too severe, or if
the shadow of a doubt had beea thrown on the guilt
of the parties, after the decision of the Jury, and ha
was glad to find they were so feelingly alive to their
duty in this respect. The person who had written
the book he had mentioned, had endeavoured to make
it appear that Government had adopted his view of
the subject. In the same work, a public institution,
to which he and many other Members of that House
belonged, bad been much calumniated. He had
tar the trouble to inquire into the truth of the
11811111111ent made concerning them ; and, after wading
through a great mass of evidence, he bad found not
only that alley were without fpundation, but that
they wore advanced under circumstances which he
should have thought must have proved to•the writer

present inefficacy , the Corn Laws ever was pre-
sented to the House. —ln the course of the few
words he had to say, he would take the liberty
of adverting to that Petition, and reading one or
two Resolutions. feelings, that expressing the semi•
meets of his constituents in their own expressive lan-
guage, would have much greater weight with the
Committee than any thing he could offer himself.—
He thought it was unnecessary for him to state to the
House the vut anxiety and interest that occupied the
public mind in Ireland upon this subject, tor they
menu be aware of the great extent of agriculture that
covers the whole face of that country. nor did he as-
sume too much in attributing to that agriculture,
those resources and energies which had enabled Ire-
land so materially to contribute to the present situa-
tion of affairs'upon the Continent, and to the restora-
tion of that peace in Europe which now so happily
pervades throughout the world. Here the Noble
Lord adverted to tome of the Resolutions of the Pe-
tition front the county of Louth, proving that, in
three months of Christmas last, by the returns from
London, of January 2, 1815, 258,812 quarters of
foreign wheat were imported into London, and only
850 of Irish; and in the same period 48,611 quar-
ters of foreign oats were imported into London, and
only 2770 of Irish: and that, in the week after end-
ing the 2d day of January, 1815, 35,590 quarters of
foreign wheat, with 24,088 quarters of foreign oats
were imported into London, and not a grain from
.Ireland. Surely. continued he, these are tuicontra-
dieted facts, which, whether looking to the present
situation of the Empire, at to its future resources,
call upon 'the Legislature for amendment—and here
he could not help noticing what fell from the Ho-
nourable Member last night. who moved the amend-
nniato-who, iu the face of that Assembly, in the face
of the country, and in the face of common sense,
ventured to compare the advantage of having our re-
sources within ourselves, and deriving our subsistence
from our own soil with the precarious reliance of
procuring our subsistence from a foreign 'market,
which might be withheld when we were in the utmost
want, and produce an unparalleled calamity;
such, be thought, might be the case with this coun-
try, if the House agreed to the wishes of the Hon:
Gentleman (Mr. Baring) ; for how could any one
suppose that the British and the Irish farmer, who
had great taxes and burdens to bear, could cultivate
his lard and raise his grain at the same prices as the
foreign farmer, who has none of these drawbacks to
contend with ? With regard to Ireland, the Noble
Lord thought, by what be bad stated from the Re-
solutions he had read, that the House must see the
great alarm that prevailed in the agricultural world
there on this subject. He had received a letter from
an eminent agriculturist in the county of Louth, who
said such was the dismay amongst them, that if the
best farm in Ireland was offered to him for nothing,
be being obliged to till the landunder existing prices,
be would not accept the boon. Surely, said the No-
hie Lord, this state of things, requires the interfe-
res. of the Legislature. Eva the Honourable Gen-
diem (Mr. !dating) muse. is his candid moments,
4** injestiois dist # slooo to the farmer—he must

feel that the manufacturer of the soil has as good a
right to protection as any other whatsoever. For sus
one could say, that the time would not again return
when England, forced into the contest. would not
want those resources within herself, of which she
would be deprived, if by following the advice of those
on the opposite side, you would deny to the farmer
that solid and permanent security which alone would
enable him to preserve those resources within this
country, which experience has already shewn is so
necessary for the prosperity of the Empire. He
should, under all circumstances, vote for the Resolu.
tions of the Right Hon. Gentleman—at the sawed
time he was by no means cert.in that the maximum
of 80s. proposed by him, was sufficient to give that
protection to the agriculturist for which he contended. But if it was not fund efficacious, he trusted the Go.
vereinent would again come forward, in that manly
and praiseworthy manner they had done upon this
' propose to the Hottal,some other, at-
- , would 41161 fwersawie
protection, to dm vonewier of the soil.
scluded by trusting that, however
on the subject, they would ever
how. nearly conmeted it wa wish
of Ireland.
was in favor's of the Resolutions.
they Crould.protect the agriculture
ithout operating to the injury of the
interest. They were about to estab.
which corn could not be abort
though it might frequently be be.
He lamented the feeling which had
doors; thought it a wise mean*
scarcity, to permit corn to be
bond that it might be brought
did not wish a higher price to
demanded by the necessity of the
of the contemplated change, as
iment for a large portion of the pa,
country.
NF- ;PORT contended, the principles
of opinion that the agriculture of
iired no protection from the law,
an Utopian world. Without pro.
impossible our Corn Growers could
•Ition with those of other countries
oppressed by a similar weight of tag.
forth the bad policy of making Qua:.
Fraoce, and put it to the Core.
have been the situation of this
:ulturists of Ireland had not come
when she could not, even at 4 the
supply from a foreign country t—
the statement of his Honourable
ig), he asserted, that in England
did live on his estate. while in

contrary, it was proverbially common
pf hod not to de so. It saltht la
Jas only done by great proprietors
of land, when exiled from Court. He had been sorry
to hear his Honourable Friend say, he believed there
was a majority in the House resolved to press this
measure in its present state. This was not the lan-
guage they ought to hold, to teach the people-to look
up to the House of Commons as a place where all
measures would be dispassionately discussed, and
where justice would be done. In no case o fight they
to inflame the prejudices of the people, nor bend to
them in the exercise of their duty. 'roe manufac-
' tilting interest was protected by the Legislature, and
he wished to know why the landed interest ought not
also to he protected ? Of the popul iiiou of the
United Kingdom, from eight to nine millions were
supported by agriculture. Ireland desei ved that her
agriculture should be protected, as she had supplied
England with corn when it could not he procured
elsewhere. In the years 1804, 5, end 6, the corn
exported from Ireland to this country amounted to
975,000 quarters. In the years 1808, 9, and 10, it
amounted to 1,800,000 quarters, being nearly double
the quantity in the lapse of a single year. In 1812.
IS, and 14. the export had increased to 2,170.000
quarters. He knew it would be said that Ireland
sufficiently benefited by this exportation to Great
Britain. The benefit. however, had been reeipincal.
Precisely in the proportion of the demaill made by
Great Britain upon Ireland for Corn, been the
demand made by Ireland upo.l _rear Blitain for
Woollen Manufactures. In the three peliod, which
he had mentioned, the export of woollens troll' Great
Britain to Ireland from 2,100,000 to 2,300,ier0, and
lastly, to 3,790,000 yards. It might be supposed,
that *increase in the Irish demand for British
manufactures, had arisen from an increase in the
British demand for Irish manufactures ; but the fact
was, that during the very period to which he had
alluded. the demand for Irish linens on the part of
Great Britain bad sensibly fallen off. Considering
that it was an essential object to the manufacturer as
well as to the agriculturist, that we should be kept
independent of the caprice or hostility of any other
country, considering that the interests of the manu-
facturer, and of the agriculturists, were inseparably
connected; considering that the interests of Great
Britain and Ireland were inseparably connected ;
looking at all these objects and interests, he thoup,ht
that it the manufacturer were called upon to make
some sacrifice, which he contended he was not, he
was found, as a good citizen, cheerfully to make it.
Mr. FRANKLIN LEWIS declared, that after all
the attention which he had been able to bestow on
the subject, it appeared to him not only expedient but
absolutely necessary to afford some protection to the •
agriculture of the country from the impending ruin ;
although he knew, that on this subject, his sentiments
differed from those of some individuals fir whose
judgment he entertained the greatest respect. Much
misrepresentation had taken place in the course of the
discussion as to the price of corn in France. By au.
thentic documents, which had been laid before the
meeting on this subject out of doors, it appeared that
the price of wheat at Paris was 58s. the quarter; and
that, although in soars of the provinces, the price was
365. and Ws. the quarter, yet that the average price

........, _
Ai .'
rose to sects the proposed regulation would come forward sad Mtn, .at they were 107 He was 'happy to ay the Aim- occasion, and proper
Presented Ili him sera their wig*, diet aflutherptogrees might be c* in q leofeepaddit 'easement which wo
this odosinhororsen-ef entibefsadoei doubt, nosolthemsding wit* wee sa* •• . I :led& by oty prourctiee
"Il,.The Trial hOluff to the coutruy, that the Bill seightbe reed in a rob*. alkralstas contained in this saltunalous The Noble Lord cons
to Noble and Loused Committee to an anobjectionabiae. libelO .f.: ' the House legislated
, a short bat pertimat Earl- ST AN HOPE spoke shortly in explanation. < !AL_. • CORN LAWS. . bear in their minds l
• that as the OW* After which the question was pet, and the •Bill Sin.LlAlifi CURTIS peemeeed 'a Petition the dearest interests 1
si, head net antieipage read g second time, with only the dissenting egoism of negbiebester, in Essex. which was a gist corn Mr. FINLAY wa
*Specially as it was the last mentioned Peer. . grogillacounty, signed by pm& of 5,900 per- from a conviction tb
and desire of the .pro- The Bill was then committed for Tuesday nest, and. ionitdremy of whom were foringes and landholder:, of the country, withc
as calculated, that the the Lords ordered to be summoned on the occasion. sigamirties proposed alteration all ihe Com Laws.— manufacturing inters
should be extended to The Earl orfiFIA.FTESBURY presmied a Patin to lie matte table. .. . : lish a system under
or the object certainly, tion from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Caesuras Tit Liken thus want into a Calemittee on the 80‘the quarter, dm
was entertained in the Council of the City -of London, against any akin- Corelsool low that price. He
of difference may exist tion in the Corn Laws; which -was ordered to lie en MobiItALTER BURSILLL supported the Re- been excited out of d
iof establishing it. The the table.—Adjourned. seledip before the Coulter& It had been said to guard against a
; had been long ester- ' HOUSE OF COMMONS. the Ilillmers would be able to. sell their corn at a warehoused under h
nefits were felt ; and he Mr. LOCICNART, from the Stamp Oases
is = sue in coalegasace of the Property Tax forth when wanted ;
any change to be made &kW an Kellam of the nnitaoor,_
__ of. Cnirrf. in Wall off, bit to his knowledge the farmers be fixed than was d
lance as that polecat's' latwai,_.,_"9,l4 the 14wWww. ......,,,...11111,a;:wlataatitPethua tita mtheenttaallwa. had the karat paid that taa out of their losses, case, and approved
ne gradually, and in a packetaZiZ-Gace ii;el4l. sis^lremberoras rinsaugh-Q and ' but of their profits. He denied that the furnishing employ mi
ChM, for whose benefit gray! to Ile ea the table. aogteawas only coveted by the land- pulation of the count
e•admitted with sooptet .A Person from ilia Meg ebbs Chief Siemer/ enrthind.tit lor He haltateddthe honour of presenting a peti- Sir JOHN NEW]
at be much disenesion tined a Retard et. the °unlade °.f. ralela who bad la paw 'ion Sissies, signed only by landholder,. Tbe of those who were of
mitten ; aid the siagle .
luThese Papers were severally ordered to be printed. SOW submitted to the Committee, he strongly the country requires
House, be took to be • Seveist °Podslins wee prsommod 'ohm the minim; Cein in was Waling for the protection of the agri- were only fit for an
bc *fort to introduce Laws, which were read and ordered to lie on the Ishii. - cakillaf the conatry. tection it was impo
at which this Bill. Pres Ministers with respect to a sew anaugemeat made by * Mr. 'MAY wished t° haw what were the hataathalse LdkIJOCELYN stated, thathe was one of those enter into competitio
pm
on those simnel/ hr czettin **kat &wen of parguasst, with mom to was wbEt ' seldom addressee-the House; be would not who mere not oppres
give a second readiall to laths and elsewhere. by ptivateskips. . ' - by ohm into a detail upon the different adore. He set forth
en jowly indeed the Mr. L ING roN stated, the arraitgasamit ilbdad to was with this question, Nora) following selves dependent on
*tar
pet intended to be inemedietelr brae**
k_befee....W.A_hell...A....a" this, , Ciestieeses who moved the amendment, mitten what must
eternalised doubts ea to °lam Pne°l4°lal on the aubiect bad '1 —"'"'"""! w-7 -77 . 'dial swage of statement which he produced country if the agricu
'foraged measure. Se- Mr. TP.WATNE brought In aas to waiadanwierrose tAi . ' is a speech. in his Mind, mere aka. In bier assistance, wh
ay to its salutary mita- Laws, eras read a ant, sad ordered ua Wiest* smond . . .. • the public understandin than any quarter, obtain ast
.01.......‘"eaFixitimisthib
practice Mandteiteme 1• amu ac• ~ . ail it. -be sm. heard delivered in the House.. He In opposition to thl
• r...-- .— — .., Upset uf which was ordered, sa ba imeiwal teesorrear. •• %SI! Lord) bad the honour of' presenting a Friend (Mr. Baring,
cent or litigation wawa . The Soak Leas Bait wps MS t segued thws..and co -, • - ' ' iwthe House, signed by above 500 of .the the agriculterisc di
i question, and certain lige WOOMINIR. , , . • • agricukurists of the France, on the contr
Ikt 11111b6111144"4 yen
Efe ir. R , -...
~ . . . .
move " Y the venture to say, no petition More fully proving the fact be said this wa
seam* would heat- March, be would move for leave to brbe in a Bin so alter and
conseirsence&
_. amend the Acu of the 13th and lath of Charles 11. for the better present inefficacy of the Sore Laws ever was pre. of land, when exiled