Star.
London, England, 1802-05-14 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

A Maar from the Lords informed the Houfe that their
Lordfhips had agreed to the Duke of SuffeesAnnuity Bid, with-
out an Amendment; as alfo to that of the Duke of Cambridge;
Hampton Inclofure, and the Swinfcoe Inelofute Ads. The
Marine Mutiny 13111 was read a (email time, and committed for

Sir Henry Peyton took the oaths and his feat for Cambridge.
The Hoak in a Committee of Supply voted the fum of
idoooacl. to be railed by way of Annuity or Debenture for
the fervice of Ireland. The Clerk read a paper, containing the
terms on which the Loan bad been contracted, which have
already appeared in our Paper.
The Bill for extending the Franking of Letters, Sze. to all
parts of the United Kingdom, was read a kit, and ordered to
be read a fecond time to-morrow.
The Puit-Olfice Bill, and the Mutiny Bill, were read a ra-

coed time, find committed for to-morroW.
Mr. ALP.IA /unit brought up the Report of the COMllltittCC
of Supply..—Refolutions agreed to, and a NU orden.d.

DEFINITIVa TREATY.

Mr. WINDHAM, purfuant to notice, rofe to call
the attention of the Houfe to the Definitive Treaty
between this country and the French Republic.—
He obferved, that from the different difcuflions
which had taken place on feparate points of detail,
fence the day when he &ft gave notice of his pre-
fent motion, it would he unneceffary for him to go
fo much at large into fubordinate confederations,
and to occupy the time of the Houle fo fully as
he fhould otherwife have felt it his duty to clth—
This he confidered a matter of confiderable ad-
vantage in every point of view; but more eecially
with rcfpeet to much valuable informationfp which
the Votife had acquired, in confequence of thofe
detailed and fpecific difcuffions. Many points, on
which it would otherivife have been incumbent
upon him to expatiate at length, were now clear•
ed up, and fettled : he amid, therefore, confine
the prefent inveiligation to leadiag and prominent
. objeos, The first point bn which he ihould elm r,

an] wh,..1. w.,s ceitait4 a confideratini; r; :i .!
.iiiflieft Mimi' t *nee, related to the attic!. .•t* • !. .
l'i ea-v refpeeir; Malta. He Lad on a foi iii..c
tight cl..fcart• 2i or. !.!w intidiotts life which mi.t.,1,,.
'se rn.l%le n' .i...: 71,r-tr4i.ty of :hat illand. Great I:1 i.
:a=n it soi .C.lat..,t. ..:1,1 virtually without 4 Ilk., ;
whihi Fr.iiiel, on the oiler hand,li.sd all the mir.(4,
and many a the 2t eater I'l , Wen of the Coutin, in,
_a:hely at her digs-fai. In cafe of any rupeuie,
'.'r.inee would have a maritime force in the port of
,:dait e ti elite to arty that we coold maintain' thcl e.
:!at this wt.• r.,it all t.them:•itobjedionable feature a
-he whole traot...dien was themanner in which tae
di,;oit y- :+lltl ititpi,Mtace tit the Order were totally
.lenroyed. It fli.all,l be conildered,that if there was,
in the whole fyiltm of European Governments, a
1:„.,1, „i.,:„ aid Ar.ciatlou which matured tip
anti maintained the ancient falutary principles of
Europe—in inciples Oct %%ilia: jute and regular go.
.vernments were bottomed—it was the Order of
1 Maitefe Knights. Now oLfcrve the manner in
which France leeks to undermine the value of that
iallitution, and to abrogate the whole of its uti-
lity. She introduces orders and regulations of fo
Ixfe and lax a nature, that the refpesiability of
the Order, as foinuled on the nicett fence ot ho-
nour, is completely done away. So effedoaily,
indeed, had France fucceeded in this attempt, that
the approved veterans of the Order, from the de-
mocratic fy Rem now laid down, refuted to have
any connection with their new affociates. The
Order, which might he confidered as a little vial,
containing the effential principles of conflituted
authority, was through French artifice and con:
trivance diluted, not merely with water, but with
the worn: of water—with water taken from the
puddle, from the common fewer. Every meafitre.
in tad, re:The:ling Alta, was calculated to throw
it into the hands of France. It was true, indeed,
that by the ternis of the Trea:y, Malta war. to be
hoarri Cooed by Neapolitan troops. But what fignified
that provision ? Malta was to be in the hands of
a garrifim, that garrifon to be fupplied from Na-
ples, whiff' Naples itfelf was virtually in the hands
of France. In his eflimation and view of the
fubjed, this was even worfe than if we had at
once furrcndcred Malta to France. In that cafe
we might have made a virtue of the cation, and
on the credit of contenting ourfelves to an ad,
which, there was but too much reafon to appre-
hend, would eventually take place without our
content, and have carried tome other point in our
favour, as a fet-offagainft that cellion. The next
point to which he fhould call the attention of the
Houfe, and a highly important point it molt de-
cidedly was, related to the reftoration of the Cape
of Good H0,...e to the Dutch. He had already
animadverted on the terms in which that relit).
ration was worded. The phrafe, " in full to-
vereignty" carried with it more confequence
than might at first fight appear. What fecurity
had we, that the Dutch, in a fit of generolity,,
might not make it over to France ? What fe-
curity that France might not find out the expe-
diency of taking it into her own kind keeping ?
As a point of communication between this coun-
try and our Eaftern Empire it was an object of •
primary importance. it was the halfwayhoufe,
and not merely a commodious, but the only ca•
vern, if he might be permitted the metaphor, we
had to ftcp and bait at in the courfe of our journey.
He now came to another matter of equal confide-
ration, the boundary of French Guiana; and he waa
glad to avail himfelf of this opportunity.to correa
an error into which he had been led on a former
evening,in fuppoling that the fraud he complained
of,as committed by France,had been done without
the privity and knowledge of our Government. He
was ready to admit ilia; our Government had re•
monftrated on this fobjeti, and that another ar-
rangement took place in confequence. But what
was the nature of that new arrangement ? Was it
an arrangement attended with any advantage? No,
it was merely a piece of trickery and fineffe. The
°Ned of the French Government was not to ob.
tain a portion of wild and uncultivated land, but
to have the command of the great and mighty
River of the Amazoni. This objets they had com-
pletely attained ; and in this point of view he cer-
tainly was fully juflified in aliening, that the
boundary, as fettled now, was not one jot better,
with refped to the interefts of this country, than
the boundary which the French had contented to
relinquifh. And when he coupled with this tran-
ladion the ceCion of Leuiliana, he could not but
feel aggravated reafon of alarm. The French were
now in potteditai of a fourth part of the whole
globe, and were matters of the two greateft rivers
in the Univerle, the Amazon and Miffiffippi.—
Thu s, in fad, they held in their hands the keys of
both North and South America. Was this no ob.
je& of deep and feriousrefleetion ? Were the Houfe
aware of the immenfe importance of thefe two ar-
ticles ? We teemed to fet no bounds to our prodiga-
lity in making concellions to France. We fcattered
pearls as profufely, and as indifferently, as barley-
corns. France well knew the value of what we lb
inconfiderately threw away. Under every change
of circurnitances, France never loft fight of her
grand. and favourite objed. It was univerfal em-
pire that the aimed at, and the vans fhe purfucd
were admirably adapted to accomplifh that ambi-
tions pnrpote.. This was her view in abrogating
the univerfal law of Europe, as eftablilhed f;..:*
ages. It was not Co much incumbent upon him. al
. complaining of the non-renewal of ancient treaties.
Ito prove the extent of the danger likely m accru.!
therefrom, as it was incumbent upon Admitail!::.
titan to thew that no danger exifted. It certain!!
was in the higlieft degree improvident in the Go.
vernment of any country to do away precautiwrary
mealnres before they had firft maturely weigh:4
and analy fed all potiihle confequences—htfi,:e
they had minutely lifted the contingent refult.—
With raised to our empire in the Eaft, this Too-
lure was certainly fraught with inveterate alarm.
Wlmt fecurity had we that 'France, now ernanr!•
paced from all re:lraint in this particular, worl.!
not eagerly leize the firft favourable opportunity
to renew her ancient pretenfions ? A Right Her
Gentleman, indeed, (Mr. Dundas) appeared to t:I•
certain very different opinions on this fubjed, ay.'.
like another Ajax, mistook us, harnacfs cattle, i.•
Cu many Trojans. But it should be remembere,t,

that though the caufe of difpute might lie in India,
the caufe ofelf might come to be tried in Eu.
ripe ; in the fame manner as the ground of a dif-
pine may originate in Cumberland, but the dif
pine itfelf be brought to trial in Weflminfter-hall.
That we had gained great and highly valuable ac-
,litifitions in the Eallern World, he pretended not
tai deny ; but he begged the Houle to confider,
tLat France, by one unfortunate fqueeze in Ett•
rope, might compel us to vomit up what we had
suited in that quarter. How had they ailed in
truly ? In what manner did France obtain pollee.
14 a) of Port Ferrajo ? In the firft place, they erect
a test kingdom for the purpofe of turning mo-
: at cl: y into hurlefque, and then, that their atliimp-
tion of tort Ferrajo might not have the appearance
of making their new King pay garnifh on his firft
cotrin,; into his fpunging-houfe, they gave him a
shaft upon Piedmont, by way of payment. When
he contemplated the gigantic ftriues with which
France milted on to univerfal monarchy, he was
ftruck with furprize and horror. They abed pre.
cifely on the fyflem of ancient Rome, but with
greater efficacy and extent. In the courfe of ten
years, they bad accomplifhed what Rome was more
than Of a century in atchieving. There were
fcarccly two powers left on the whole Continent
that could cope with her. Ruflia, the moll pow.
erful of the two, was, perhaps, more indebted for
her and independence, to her dillance from
France, th in to her inherent and intrinfic ftrength.
A, io Au lria, it was Co crippled, fo weakened, and
invited, that no man, who took a jull furvey of
I.er condition, could pretend to fay, that the
vv;lci of the !late would not go by the board
the urn Ilium it thould have to encounter. It
itli infinite fort ow he perceived a grossing
f indiEtence as to tuture contingencies.
—One tlaie after the other was ftiffered to be
fit: erect away ; and yet [llll we teemed to be infen-
-111:'-: if the danger; and, perhaps, when all Europe
va • gc•ne, he th old be told, o Well, peace go
with h u ! ours, thank Goo! is an Wand ; in an
extien.e cafe, we can take to our boat, and go
furiewhere die." But where was that place of re-
th n ai)liim to be found ? Where, and in
what bunt ter of the globe was the retreat, whether
Fiance uld not be able to purfue us? Not in
tI Wefiein World I for there France had placed
her foot on a firm bath. In this point of view,
oft c• tidal of Adminiftration, reepeeing the ex-
p,..d.! ion to St. Domingo, appeared to hint esti eme-
ly centlarable -aad dangerous. We had, in fat%
thcrehy comprom/fed the fafety and independence
•of the whole of our Well India iflands, but more
p.irticularly. of Jamaica. France was, in fae,
clablifhinga.new Breit in the Weft Indies, the el.
• feels of which it would not be long, he feared, be.
fore we thould have occafion of experiencing. He
•believed that Minillers, in making peace, were not
a little induced to that flep by the idea that the
French Government would have fo much work up-
on their hands, and be fo deeply occupied in fet-
tling their new acquifitions, that they would have
n • rime to interfere with our commercial great-
nefs ; but he begged to remind the Iloufe that
Fence, as he before obterved, had never for a
Tingle moment loft fight of her favourite object of
• univerfal empire.. The means, the veryjwie qua non,
for the attainment Vf that übjeet, was the dame-
lion of this country. that purpofe were all
.her arts, all her efforts direacd. In this refpea
lie must at Lail give the French the praife of fin-
eerity. They did not dif:;ttife their intention, they
slid not a& with ambiguity. On the contrary,
France fpuke its fe:-timents loudly, and gave evi-
deo of her defigns every moment. Her whole
trani artillery was levelled againft the grcatncfs
of this co.atti-7, and fumy was he to add, that we
6.v mat aillicar to be duly fenfible of our fituation.
Fo.e:•glt was not le l, roceffary than power for
the prevention of calamity. It bchorted Rates, as
arca as il4tviduals, to anticipate danger, and not'
to (:el ty the means of defence till the moment of
a. ta.k. !hould apply forefight, as inters did
their aihnolorA to omen danger at a diftance. In
this maxim, it appeared to him, we had been
greatly deficient. It had been the opinion of
many well arTeeed perfons, on the firft breaking
out of the French Revolution, that no danger was
tote apprehended to this country from the venom
of French principles; that the pure gold of the
Etitilh Contlitution could not be fullied nor col-.
Tuded with the rrup of French Jacobinifm. Ex-1
perienee, however, had proved that we had fed
ourfelves with dclufive hopes, and hugged our-
felvcs into a fitlfe fecurity. Experience had (hewn
that even the gold of the Britifh Conftitution was
not any more proof againft the virus of Jacobinifm
than the baler materials of which the Contlitu-
tions of other countries were compofed. He was
aware that on many points conneeed with the
ohjc& of the late war, he entertained fentiment,
not perfe&ly accordant, in their full extent, with
thole entertained by forte of thole Right Hon.
Friends with whom he had the honour to att.—
Ccnfulering, as he did, opinions to be no chimera,
and that opinion, in many reepees, conilituted a
Lgitiniate objet of the late war, he might be
more fanguine than others for the reftoration .o
F. (rich monarchy. In this view, he was particu
laxly eager for the expedition to Q2iberon, and
1111 approved highly of that enterprize, notwith-
funding all the clamour fo induftrioufly raifed
"gain, it. In the midft of that clamour, his
I):ght Hors. Friend, the late Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, had, with great manlinefs and candour,
avnwed his readinels to take his !hare of the re- '
fponfibility, as involving the planning and projec-
tion of the expedition againft Qpiheron : yet fully
ac,nowledging the generofity of that conduct, I
ant willing to allow
Mr. Pir r here rote to call the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman to order. He dwelt on the irregularity of
tittering, in the courfe of a difcuilion on the fub-
..ct of a Peace concluded by tbe prefent Admini-
into a review:of the hiftory of the refpec-
tit c ;hare taken by their precleceffors in office, in
”perations of the war. Befides being irregu-
-1 r. it was :lot contillent with the nature of the
earn t; ken by the Right Hon. Gentleman, in
41nm,n with all other perfons engaged in his lka-
iTlty's Councils.
Wlmiau a do not think that the obliga-
'

done to which my Right Hon. Friend alludes, can
be underftood as preventing me from giving that
fort of explanation on which I was proceeding. I
was going on to fay, that I confidered the expedi-
tion to Qpiberon, as a meafure in which toy Right
Honourable Friend, and the majority of the cabi-
net, muff necelfarily have concurred, rather as a
meafure of my own, prc(fed by importunity—
Mr. PITT (to orekr).—l cannot admit that my
Right Hon. Friend, though lie generou fly offers
to undertake the whole refponfibility of the Qoibe-
ron expedition, has, according to my recolledion,
Dated correctly the extent of the (hare which I had
in that meafure. I cannot think it confident with
the duty impofed upon the Ration my Right Hon.
Friend filled, to divulge any confultations or opi-
nions,(fuppoling his flatement cornea) which mull
have been exprelfed in official confidence.
Mr. WI NDM A tet..--1 conceive that I was merely
Rating a circumstance perfonal to myfelf, and my
Right Honourable Friend would have teen by the
application that my explanation could not have
been confidercd as any difclofore of Rate fecrets.
1 was going to have (hewn that the country, hay.
ing micjudged the war, the conduct of it naturally
partook of what I conceive to have been error.
What I fay of the fy Rem of war, as in my judg-
ment bell fuited to the circurnitances of the late
contefi, is not an arraignment of my Right Ho.
nourable Friend, to whofe department its con-
duet particularly belonged (Mr. Dundas). I can
bear teiiimony to the diligence, the zeal, the ac-
tivity, the ardour, and all the other great quali.
ties which belong to him, which my Right
Honourable Friend difplayed. I do not arraign
the plan of my Right Honourable Friend, nether
do I divulge date fecrets. I Date what was no
fccret—th.tt previous to the time when I came
into public Ration, my Right Hon. Friend had
marked opinions on the fubjeet of the war, and
that we did differ in our views on the ftibjeet. When
I was interrupted, I was labouring to (hew that the
I country had not rightly, judged its &nation, and
I that the mode of war puteaed contributed to con-
firm their error. The country never knew Cu&
ciently why it was at war. It had been laid with
great force and eloquence by my Right Honourable
Friend (Mr. Pitt), on different occafions, that we
were at war for fecurity ; we were indeed at war
becaufe we could not be at peace we were at
fea becaufe we could not be on (bore : yet though
reminded of this, the character of the war it-
felf, the grand monitor, was wanting. The
manner in which it was carried on did not fuffici-
ently mark its nature. The force was centrifu-
gal. It never converged enough towards the fo-
cus from which the danger proceeded. The quef
tion, why we were at war, perpetually recurred,
and people were not enough taught to fee that
we were at war becaufe the French Government
was fuch as to leave us no peace, and was necef-
lardy in perpetual hollility with every thing which,
as individuals and as a nation, it was our interell
1•o defend The fame error had purfued us into
the prefent Peace. If it were contended, that with
refped to the objet of the war, we had not been
completely fuccefsful, which he was ready to
admit, Dill he would maintain that die fyftem
itfelf was not wrong. He mull lament that the
fame error of opinion, which obtained through.
out the war, Rill exifted in too great a degree
at the prefent moment ; yet, at the fame time,
he hid to deplore the effects of that error ; (till
in its application to principle and conduit, it
afforded him great and jolt ground of confolation.
—He exculpated the country for not difplaying
more ftrenuous exertion, for however great might
be the exertions of the country, when confidered
feparately, when placed in view with the immense
object at (lake, they were not fo pre-eminent as
they ought to have been. Thus, then, though he
lamented the fth, he derived confolation from the
inference. Had the country been more deeply
impreffed with a true fenfe of the objea of the
war, it would have difplayed greater energy.—
Was there ever, he would afk, a war carried on
with fuch inceffant cries for Peace Was there
ever a period in the former hittory of this coun-
try, in which the public prints would have been
tolerated in crying down our fleets and armies? in
depreciating the exploits and undervaluing the
merits of our gallant feamen and fathers ? Had
we not proof of the fad it would fcarcely be ere-
' diced, that when a General Thankfgiving and
Proceilion took place on account of three of the
moll fplendid victories that ever graced the annals
of any country, it was made a matter of doubt,
whether this ad of triumph would be favourably
received or not. Newfpapers aging on this prin-
ciple could not poffibly obtain circulation, if they
did not meet with correfpondent fentiments on the
part of the community. From the whole train of
thefe proceedings, then, he was juflified in ar-
guing, that a fpirit of flatnefs, of indifference,
and want of energy pervaded the country, which
never obtained before. Thus much of the ob-
jell ; now for the means. When we talk of the
greatnefs of our exertions, the queftion mull na-
turally be coupled and affociated with the quan-
tum of our means, and the magnitude of the ob.
jell at ifne. If the late war had been merely a
war of: experiment, in that cafe, indeed, he fhould
be ready to conclude that our exertions had been
immenfe. But when we (peak of a war begun
and carried on for the vital interefts, nay, for the
very exigence of the country, then the queftion
affumes a different feature, and in that view of the
fubjed he did' not think our exertions had been
proportionably great, not great even when com-
pared with the means ; for whatever clamours
might' have been railed againd the war in
forme quarters, certain it was that the country
had not pined under it. Our means increafed
with, and .after the fame ratio as the war itfelf;
fo mach In, indeed, that the enemies of the
war, finding it impoffible any longer to reafon
againit plain matter of fad, were obliged to (hill
their ground, and from.finking the public fituation,
to ring the changes on the dint-ergs of indivi-
duals. Individual difirefs would always keep pace
with general profperity. The great poverty of in-
dividuals was the natural confequence of encreaf
ing public opulence. It was the fecretion una-
voidably retains from the full and catholic (late

lAI public we thh. This, therefore, 'bowed how
little fuch remarks were applicable, as a peculiar
cafe, to the late war, inalmuch as they applied
equally to All wars. Diftuilling, then, this topic,
he v. 1,11 a itatement of us means, to open
the eyes (~f the country to its real fituation c—he
wiihed to cure the public mind of that baneful
error whit h leek men to uncle' value all that is great
and noble in a national point of view. and which,
when relinquillted, never fails to entail the down-
fal of national greatnefs. It was a lamentable
confideration, that public fpirit fhoillti decline in
nearly the fame proportion as commercial profpe-
rity and gi cat nets increafed. Superficial reafoners
might not fee the deplorable confequences of filch
a fyflem ; they might be milled to believe that the
lots of rnblic fpirit was no ferious misfortune, fo
' long AS the country flourifhed with relpe6t to trade
andcommerce. But how long would this laft ?
To luppole that commercial greatnefs could en-
' dure, when public fpirit fhould be extinel, was as
abfurd as the remark made by one of our l‘lo-
narchs, when Ile was told that the people were
dying through famine: a Why don't they eat
their bread and cheek r' They could not get bread
and cheefe to eat. How long would France leave
111 bread and checfe to eat? How long would it be
before the efforts of our rival would (hackle and
reduce our commerce ? He felt no hefitation in
declaring, that, in his eftimatian, the fee-fimple
of Fiance,, on the 3oth of September left, the day
prior to the figning of the Preliminaries, was in-
finitely greater in value than it was fince, and as
he feared, than it would be again for a long time to
come. It was not his will) to difpirit, but to aroufe
the country, to induce the nation to avail themfelves
of the means left us, to correct' the error that
had been committed. What fecurity have we
that France will not re-urge the claims which (lie
relinquilhed in 5733 ? He withed to fee the country
placed upon its guard, not imitating the example
of the ostrich, uhicli, when purfued, thrults its
head into a hollow tree, and being thus prevented;
from teeing its purfuers, flatters itfelf that it is
out of danger. He well remembered, at the con-
clufion of the American war, the predi6tions of
many intelligent Itatefinen, who forefaw in the
lots of Amenea much ferious mifchief to Great
Britain, were treated as chimerical. Beeaufe the
evil confequences did not take place immediately,
no credit was attached to the warning voice of
thofe who foreboded them. But experience had
fince verified their predietions.; The vitality of
nations was not to be calculated on the fame
narrow fcale as that of individuals. But have
we not felt, and that feverely, the 101 l of Ame-
rica throughout the whole of the late War ?
Has America been of no ufe, no aid to France t
Did Gentlemen tecollea the fupplies which France
drew from America? Would Minifters have con-
cluded Peace on the prefent terms if America had
been in our alliance Should we, in that cafe, have
found France Rationed at the back, ready to over-
run America as the pleafes ? It was a praftiee,
unfortunately too prevalent, and of late too much
increafing, for men to run their own lives againfl
that of their country ; to reafon, it will laft my time
out, and let pofterity even care for itfelf. But let
inch men be apprikd, that they might in the event
find themfelves in a very different predicament
from what they apprehended. They might find
themfelves wofully deceived in their reckoning,
and overtaken by misfortune before they were
aware. Let them look for an example, and take
warning from the fate of Spain, with many other
countries, which were, in point of fats, become
mere vaitals of France. He knew no inftance of a
tingle Peace in which a greater variety of points
were left unadjufted ; and what rendered this de-
ficiency the more to be lamented was, that in the
fame proportion as there exited cattle for alarm,
in the fame proportion were we deprived of the
means of refiftance. He did not mean a fpeedy
renewal of the War, becaufe he believed the power
to be wanting ; bus he wilhed to do away all caufe
and ground of di ftru R. In thisview fhould move,
w'l hat an humble Addrefs be prefented to his Majefty, af-
furing him, that the Houle bad fully confidered the Definitive
Treaty laid before them, and that they acknowledge theßoyal
Prerogative as to the queftion of Peace or War; that they con-
fider it as their duty to maintain inviolate the public faith, as
pledged in the raid Treaty ; yet; notwithkanding, they cannot
conceal from his MAjelly the painful apprehenfions they enter-
t.,in as to the confequences which to them•appear likely to re-
fult to the countr7 from the conclufion of that Peace; nor with-
hold their advice to their Sovereign, in order to avert, with
the affiftance of Drum c PROVIDINCE, the dangers with which
the country is furrounded, as they cannot, without dread and
alarm, contemplate the continued and fyfiematic projedta of
aggrandifement on the part of Frank, with the large acoeffon
of rower and territory made by that country, at the very mo-
ment of negotiation. The elafhing intercity which had been
left utiadjulted, and the unavoidable difputes left open ; and,
above all, the preponderance of power left in the hands of
France by rclinquithing the great bulwarks of war ; by, Which ,
means the Britilh Government, in the event of the renewal of
hoßilities, would be expofcd to greater dangers and difficulties
than the neceffities of circumrtar.ces warranted, or obliged the
country to Cuba* to. The Houle, therefore, relying on his
MaJefty's wifdom and internal affedion for his people, humbly
recommend to his Maleity to keep a vigilant eye over the
actions of our late enemy. attiring his Majelly at the fame time
of their =diners to co-operate with him, as refining every en-
croarknent anatinnovation whatever, which may hereafter be
attempted on the maritime. commercial, and colonial rights of
the country ; and they truft, that his Majeity will approve of
their eareeit defire to fupport thole rights, by a kale of naval
and military defence commenforate to the impending danger;
and of thar anxiety for kenning the permanency of the tranqui-
lity now accompliftsed; for the more &canal accompliihment
of which, they would recommend a fpeedy attempt towards
an amicable adjustment o f thofe points not included in the
Treaty, which might flap& ground to future doubt and dif-
pute, and which they have been induced to offer to his Majzf-
ty's notice, front the lincere love and attachment they bear to
their Sovereign. and their earn& folicitude for the happinefa
and welfare of the country at large, by procuring liability to a
fafe and real Peace:

Lord FOLKSTONa feconded the Motion, and ob-
ferved, that the filbjed had been fo ably and fo
effectually argued by his Right Hon. Friend, that
little remained for him to add to it ; he, hoWever,
could not avoid remarking, that in this treaty, not
only a negled, hut a direlidion of our naval rights,
was apparent, and the Flag of Old England de-
graded. It was, therefore, impoWble to approve
of fuch a treaty, and he was unable to conceal that
opinion ; unable was he alto to conceal that when
all other countries were fupporting 11. e faith of
their ancient. and refpeaive Treaties, Great Bri-
tain alone was negleaful of hers, and tint when
it was a firlt-rate principle with all other nations

to refpea and volue, as trill as to protect thcir
lies, Great ltritaia alone was regardlefs of, hers,
and ungrateful to thole who facriffeed even all that
was dear to them as nations in her's and the gene.
ral talk. We bad entered into the conteft under
the avowed principle of aliening and of protefting
the rights of the fleaile of Orange, and we barely
deferted her; we, in form, but not in fubltance,
made a thew of our attention to that illUfil it/US
rhich none ought to be more relp,a-
ed cr valued in the eyes of this country, whole
cattle the early and effeduaUy ach.,oed and hip.
ported, and our return to her, in the hour of her
meeffity, is a vain and empty ftipulation in words,
a mere parade of notice, but nothing folid or fub-
flantial in it. In the cafe of Portugal, our contiud
was even work, and more ungenerous; fur we
were not content with negleffing and deferting
her, but we committed her to the fpoliation of
her bittereft foes ; though in fad it was not
thefe foes who committed that fpoliation—it was
this country that tore from her her territory.—
There were circumflances that mult ftrike eve-y
thinking mind with fhame, horror, and diigult ;
but he feared very much that all he could fay up-
on thefe topics would have little weight there; we
had of late learned fo much to appreciate the tem-
porary advantage of commercial confiderations,
far above all other interefts, that little was to be
hoped from a State Co befotted with the avaricious
fentiments of fordid wealth as we were. In the
fame impolitic view he beheld the furrender of
Malta, and could impute it to nothing but an in-
fatuation in the minds of Miniflers, who, not con-
tent with ceding the Eaft and the Weft, and the
privileges of the Britifh Flag in the North, now
alio reign the Levant, and its belt and only pro.
tenor, Malta, into the very hands of our ancient
and mortal foe. For theft reafons he thought the
Treaty difgraceful And difhonourable, and the Ad.
dre/s fhould therefore have his molt decided fupport.
Here the motion and the addrefs were read from
the chair, and the queftion was put again.
Lord HAWK ESIMRY rote, and in a fpeech evin-
cing great hiftorical refearch and the molt exten-
five acquaintance with the political and commer-
cial interetts of this country, addrefied the Houfe
to the following purport :—" Sir, I have lillened
with the inmoff attention to the obfervations of my
Right Hon. Friend, and indeed it was impoflible
I fhould not ; for though fome parts of his fpeech
were very remotely, if at all, conneaed with the
queftion before the Houk, yet from the ability and
ingenuity he has exhibited throughout, he was pe-
culiarly entitled to attention. A good deal of the
fpeech of my Right Hon. Friend confined in pre-
didions as to the confequences, and affertions as
to the conditions of the Peace; but I will affure
him, and the Noble Lord who feconded his motion,
that were the Treaty fuch as they have defcribed
it—and I confidered it as by any means injurious
to the interefts—but particularly if it were degrad-
ing to the dignity of the country, no man in this
Houfe, or in the Empire, would be more ready to
oppofe it than myfelf, whoever the author of it
might be. I however view the negociations in quite
a different light from that in which my Right Hoc.
Friend teems to confider it. lam of opinion, that
though tome commercial queftions were not finally
arranged, it was better to leave thofe queflions for
a future adjuftment, than longer to defer that ne-
gociation. I maintain, that Peace, under all the cir-
cumftances, was defirable ; that it would have been
extremely culpable in Minifters to have declined
it ; but I would not be andel-flood to infinuate that
there was no other alternative for the country, or
that the Peace is to be confidered in any point of
view dithonourable. It is fuch as Minifters have
thought it expedient and prudent to conclude, and
fuch as the Houfe and the country called for. I
am glad that the whole of this queftion is at length
brought before the Houfe. I have always objed-
ed to the difculfion of it in parts, becaufe if ever
there was a fubje& which ought to be dircuffed al-
together, it is a Treaty of Peace. The parts muff
be examined with reference to each other, and nos
diftinaly ; for though in one part fomething un-
favourable may appear, yet that, upon a review of
the whole, will perhaps turnout to be a conceffion
in order to obtain Come advantage on another part.
For thefe reafons have I for tome days back depre-
cated the pradice of Gentlemen in cavilling at par-
ticular provifions of this Treaty ; a mode of pro-
ceeding which tended to produce a falfe impreflion
on the public mind, and was even calculated to
prepoliefs the judgment of the Houfe ; I cannot
be, nor ever was, adverfe to the difcuffion of this
fubjea, point by point ; my defire was, that thole
points fhould be fairly and relatively taken, not in
that feparate and detached way, in which Gentle-
men have been endeavouring to canvas it, without
'taking into account the miles which produced the
commencement and conclufion of the negociation,
and the effea of the whole of the terms combined.
This queftion has at length come to that fpecies of
inveftigation which I wafted for—and in which,
whether right or wrong, it ought to be taken. It
teems to me properly to have divided itfelf into two
heads: fie, whether the terms of the Definitive
Treaty were confifteot with the bafis of the Pre-
liminary Articles? and fecondly, whether if any
departure from the Preliminary Articles had
taken place, that or any events which had oc
curred during the negociation, were of fuch con-
fequence as to induce Minillers to relate to
conclude the Treaty? Before I proceed to re-
mark on thofe heads, I beg leave to fay a few
words of the circumnances in which this country
was involved at the time the negociation was begun.
To this Gentlemen feldom looked, though it was
evidently conneded with—at lean necellary to a
proper decifion on the fubjea before the Houfe.
It mutt be in the recolleCtion of the Houfe, that
force fhort time previous to the commencement of
the negociation, the fatal battle of Hohenlinden
was fought, and a vidory, as decifive as it was im.
portant, was obtained by France in that conflid,
the immediate confequence whereof was a peace
between France and Auftria, and its refult aa.
neral pacification over the whole Germanic
pire, which became difmembered, dithevelled, and
diverfified with various (*coat/lents, opinions, and
interefts immediately fucteeding that, came an
the Peace with Naples and Portugal. The who).

ni the conredetael, which was foinied with this
country againft France was• not only broken, but
a new confederacy with France formed againß
this country. In this fituatic-i of affairs, the uni-
verfal opinion with all ranks and defcriptions of
people was to make peace with F; aace; and among
thefe were feveral of thole Gentlemen at the op.
polite fide of the Houtc, who, in feutiments and in
txprellions had fo frequently during the war dif-
fered with his Majefty's Minitlers. It was confi-
tiered as a thing neceftiry and expedient to make
peace vith Fr!nce : and Covet nment accordingly
under this infltience, after they had fent a fleet
into the Baltic, deemed it right to advife his Ma-
jelly to make a peace with the Government of
France. But it was not a thing much to be hoped
for er expeacd, that at filch a period of the war,
and after all that had happened, any peace that
this country could make would affea a fettlement
of the affairs nn the Continent. That fuels a
fettlernent could rot be aceompliked was a ch.•
cumllanee certainly very deeply to be deplored;
but it could neither be attempted or thought of
after thc treaty of Luneville ; that abfarbed all
Continefltal confederations, and from the fecrecy
with which it was conduCed and diaated, it
was impoftible to enter into dikuffion or negotia-
tion for rights there, which, in any degree, would
he either confolatory or fatisfatiory to this coun-
try ; we were left, therefore, to make fuch a peace
as antler three general principles might be accor-
dant with the dignity, honour, and intereft of the
empire. The firft and great objeit to obtain, was
the integrity of Great Britain; the next was, fide-
lity towards our allies; and the third, was to have
fuch an equivalent in our coaquefts, wherever they
were to be taken, as would meet thofe which
France obtained on the Continent of Europe.—
How far we have by fubfequent circumftances,
and by the Treaty we have made, fucceeded in
thefe objects, remains now to be confidered ; and
he hoped they would be; as they appeared to be,
calculated for the accomplilhment of the great ob-
ject required ; that is, a lifting and an honourable
Peace. Our villories loon matured what our
hopes fuggetitel, and the battle of the ad of
April, added to that of the glorious conteft of the
2111 of March in Egypt, combined together, foon
perfuaded the French Government to alter their
tone for peace, and look forward to it with as much
zeal as at any period they could reafonably bee:-
pc:led to do, after the vaft acquifitions they ob-
tained, and the extenfion of empire which they
had accomplifhed. The negotiation then took a
fpirited turn, and the Preliminaries were agreed
to. Thefe were the circumftances that led to the
negotiation for the peace, to the fignature of the
Preliminaries, and to the final execution of the
Definitive Treaty ; but Government, from the
moment that they proceeded in their efforts for ne-
gociation, felt that they could not make fuch terms
for their Allies as they fincerely wiffied ; but they
are fatisfied that the peace they have negotiated
has, notwitlillanding that, given to out allies as
much, under the circumftances of their refpeftive
cafes, as they had a right to expo% whilll it was
at the fame time fuch a peace as prefented this
country no lets in addition to what the already
polkaed, than two of the greaLeft naval flations in
the eallern and weflern betnifpbere ; it was, there-
fore, a peace moll honourable and moll advan-
tageous. From all that he had heard this night
from his Right Hon. Friend, and it has (hewn him
perfetily conliftent, fur it appears to be his fend-
ments and his doctrine, that it is not his objec-
tion that we fhonld ceafe to carry on the war, but
that we should ever make peace with the prefent
Government of France ; for fuch a peace, in his
eyes, was not to be juftified before GOD or man.
But both his arguments and his reafonings upon
that fubjea make againft all his original principles;
for France is juft verging from that revolution
and -loft horrors which ever accompanied it ; the
appears to have the advantage of confolidating a
Government, which by gentle gradations ap-
proaches fait to the reftoratioa of order and me-
thod, which can give a nation liability and faith ;
it has reflored all wonted refpesft for religion,
which through the furor of rebellion, revolution,
and Jacobinilm, was trampled on and defpifed,
and it has reflored fy Rem over the whole of her
yell territory; but Ihould a renewal of the war
occur, all this order, all this fyftem, would again
diverge into the fame barbarifms of revolution,
anarchy, and Jacobinifm, which for thefe twelve
years pall have defolated Europe, railed fo much
the horrors, and excited fo much the deprecation
of the Right Honourable Gentleman. It may
be raid, with regard to the firft of the general
principles which he (hated, that this country be-
holding the circumftances which thus enveloped
Europe, Ihould not have concluded a Peace with-
out obtaining fuch a fecurity for its prefervation,
as would eventually prevent an abrupt or fpeedy
rupture. In reply to that he would fay, that
however much this country mull and did behold
the aggrandifements of France, on the Continent,
flill he never could content to the opinion, that
whenever France ftretched her conquests we Ihould
interfere, as if every acceffion to power with them
neeellitrily involved us. But a doctrine like this he
fur one never would affent to ; if it be not the molt
evtravagant, it certainly was the moll extenfive
that ever was broached to this or to any other go-
vernment under the fun. He knew, on the other
hand, there were thofe in the country who enter-
tained opinions of a very different nature, who
thought that this country should be infnlated in her
political influence, as the is in her natural lima-
tion : but neither was he an advocate for that ex-
treme; they were both equally imprudent ; they
were as erroneous in politics as in ethics. "
irJer fe son plum convenire." This country has
a deep interell in the affairs of the Continent, but
then it is an intereft of a relative nature, not de-
pendent on caprice or ideas of chivalry, but to be
afcertained from concurrent events, in doing which
we mat regard the I.:Nation of France in re-
(pea to her exterior acquirements, and the dif-
pofition of her people at home. Looking_there-
rnre into the fituatton of the interior of France,
he ppealed, whether there was a period, for the
wr.,.le of the nine years War, when we could have a
Peace with more.likelfttoodof its permanency, or
with more propriety towards Durham. At the

conctuflon of that period, after having embarked
in that war for the balance of power in Europe,
we forma the molt of it coalefced againft ourfelvcs.
We therefoie made a Peace feparate and Jiftina
from them, and that without committing either
our honour or our faith. Strong, indeed, mutt
the reafons be for renewing a war, when fuch cir-1
cumftanceohave occurred as enjoined fo earneftly
and fo imperioufly the neceffity of peace. As to
the circumftances which occurred by the crowd of
events that have happened in Italy, fuch as the
change of the Tufean Government, and the amt.-
fion of the Cifalpine Government to the hands of
the Firft Conful, if Holland and the Netherlands
were not now caufes for continuing the war, and
their refpeeive Sovereigns and people would not
join us any longer in their mutual cants, to recut
and reftore them ; and we therefore thought them
no longer cants' to interrupt the tranquillity of
Europe, certainly the Italian Republic and the 1
Etrurian Monarchy infinitely lets fhould agi•
tate our confederation, much lefs excite us to a re-
newal of the war. But when we glance at thefe
events, we find the Court of Berlin congratulating
the Firit Cantu), on the one hand, and the Court
of Vienna acquiefcing on the other; and both there
Powers were by much more interefted in each of
thefe events than we could poilibly be. Minifters,
therefore, beholding thefe tranfaaions, did, as he
conceived, but their duty, in recommending it to
his Majefty to make a feparate peace; and the
shame or the glory of it, whichever fhould hap-
pen to be the refult, they would claim a title I
to ; the refponfibility was theirs, and they would
avow it openly and unreferved. With regard
to the ceffion of Louifiana by Spain, it was im-
poffible altogether to view it with indifference
But yet that was not a ground for refuting to ac-1
cede to a peace. Louifiana was originally a French
Province, and in the peace of ;763, when this
country Rood high in the opinion of all the world,)
when France was allowed all the other Weft In-
dia colonies except Tobago, fhc was given Loui-1
fiana in addition ; yet this country is now blamed
for not refilling private conventions. It is not a
little fingular, that immediately after the fignature
of that treaty, they privately ceded Louiliana to
Spain; fo that not only there private conventions
are of a much earlier date than reprefented, but this
very colony, which, by a fecret treaty, is jutt now
ceded to France by Spain, was ceded in the fame
way by France to Spain in 1763: this, therefore,
could not be aground to renew the war, or to re-
fute acceding to a general peace. It was neither
a ct.nunercial or a naval Ration of import, or likely
for centuries to become fo. He denied that it
would become formidable to this country by its
vicinity to the American States, and the confequent
probability that it would overrun thofe States.—
The fat& would certainly be the reverie of that ;
France, by becoming poffelted of that colony,
became, therefore, the natural rival of America,
and the would therefore be guarded againft her,
and her (tweets in that refpea might well be cal.
culated from her struggles in 1756, when France,
in addition to Louifiana, had alto Canada; and Rill
more might we judge it, if we regard the efforts
America made with this country in her fuccefsful
ftruggle for independence and fovereign fway. Re-
Hefting on there two matters, he was warranted
in the conclufion he drew, that America would al-
ways be itrong enough to counteraft any of the
fchemes of ambition which France niight plot
againft her on her Continent. So far, therefore,
as events had happened between the figning of the
Preliminaries and the execution of the Definitive
Treaty, be left it to the Houfe to confider and
lay, whether upon this ftatement, which was a
(tatement of recorded faits, Minilters would have
been juftified in refuting to liften to a conclufion
of the war, or again to its renewal ? With regard
to the fecond great general queftion, whether the
Definitive Treaty he founded on the bails of the
Preliminaries, two things were to be confidered ;
viz. Otniffions and Commitlions. By the firft was
underftood thofe which, not being of the Preli-
minaries, yet cornprifed a part of the Definitive
Treaty, under which head was to be regarded the
non-renewal of political and commercial treaties.
As to the firft, it was known, that from the Treaty
of Weftphalia down to the lama we had made
I prior to this, although great changes had taken
`place in Europe, yet as treaties were to frequently
made, thefe changes were not fo prominent, and the
original treaties in each new treaty were as regular.
ly renewed as the treaties themfelves were made, it
was always contidered a thing of courfe. To all
who regard the prefent fitnation of Europe,and the
changes it has undergone during the laft nine years,
it mutt be apparent thatfuch treaties could not now
be renewed, to as to be maintained afterwards with
good faith ; and it was evident that in all the
treaties which France made with the feveral Powers
that the had been contending with, not one of the
old treaties had been revived ; and moreover, to
thew the abfurdity of renewing old treaties, were
that done, we fhould have to guarantee the Ne-
therlands to Auftria, the Seven United Provinces
to the Houk of Orange, Savoy to Sardinia, and
a variety of other guarantees equally impoffible
and ablurd. If we had not fucceeded in letting
Europe to rights, we had the fatisfaaion of know-
ing that we were no party in her wrongs. and in
making a feparate Peace, we have not become a
party against her intereft ; for we never could
become a party in her concerns, as long as the con-
tented to the feparate and fecret treaty ofLuneville,
of which we were no party, in which we bore no
)hare. With regard to the non-renewal of Commer-
cial Treaties, certainly that appeared at firtt view
matter of grave confideration ; but the arguments
that apply to the one bear upon the other. And
as a proof of the abfurdity of concluding treaties
of this defcription, without at leaft knowing firft
what kind of treaties we thould want after fo long a
digreffion from all kinds of treaties, he would mere-
ly inftance that with refried to our exports ; they
were much greater during the war than they were
at any period during the peace, notwithtlanding all
the prohibitory laws that were thundered forth in-
ceffintly to prevent their reception. And if we
were driven to a war of duties with France, certain
it was that the advantage would be molt promi-
nently on our fide, and that too particularly with
France. It would produce a much greater evil to

her wines and bkidies than to any ene ankle of
our nsanufattures, or of our trade whatfoever. Re-
lative to the feparate conventions as to the Eat
Indies, tbe Bay of Honduras, and our flag, he went
into each on a general detail. As to the firll,
though the rights of the Britifh and of the French
originated from the fame fource, from thofe fir-
mans which firit conftituted right in that quarter
of the world originally, yet we Coon eltabliflied
a ftronger title by the right of conqneft, and that
footing which the Mogul firft prefented us, we
converted by victory into foxereignty ; and
France, now fully fenfible of that, comes back,
but under our !way, acknowledging there no
other lord paramount, confirmed as it heretofore
was by the Treaty of 1787. Concerning the
next &Wee, Honduras, that was ceded by treaty
in 5763, for an equivalent on the Mufquito Shore;
and the right, therefore, we poffefs is old and in-
dubitable. As to the laft and moll important tub-
jed, viz. The honour of the Flag, he declared
that he never heard a fubjea Co perverted or fo
mifundertlood. Some Gentlemen had afferted,l
that Government had permitted a direct renuncia-
tion of its right. This he denied to its fulleß ex-
tent. Its dignity hr.; not been fullied, we have
claimed its title, and we have obtained the cur-
tomary refped to its fuperiority, by an unqualified
reftitution of its claim to be faluted in every quar-
ter of the ocean; not with regard to Holland I
merely, for that would be aliening it with but a
very humble foe, but with our proudeß rival, with
France herfelf, and with all the world befide. So
far, therefore, from abandoning it, we have fet it
on the very fame foundation it was at the proudeft
periods of our Naval Hiftory. Itt the Prelimi-
naries five points occurred, which were modified
in the Definitive Treaty; thefe were the articles
concerning Prifoners, Portugal,Newfoundland, the
of Good Hope, and Malta. Relative to the.
tint, it is by no means a new thing to introduce in a
Treaty a like provifion for Prifoners of War: it was
but a principle of fair and reciprocal juftice, it was
eltablithed in 1763, and again in 1783 ; and upon
thefe two precedents, the French contended, and,
in his opinion, fairly too, that we ought and had a
right to confider the Ruffian troops in our pay, pre-
-1 cifely on the fame footing as our own fuldiers. With
regard to Portugal, his Lordfhip maintained that
we performed our duty towards her with honour
and truth. It is true that our expedition to Egypt
prevented us from giving her that aid which the at
a very late period called for from us; but we
Rated our reafons for having fignified to her the
conditions by which the might continue to look up
to us for protection ; the refuted the good we offer.
ed, although our requeß was nothing more than
this, (and concerned he was to (late thus publicly,
becaufe it appeared invidioufly, the reafon), that
the would not condefcend to allow us to appoint a
Commander in Chief over her forces, inftead of
an old man, who was at the head of them, unable,
from age and infirmities, to encounter the difficul-
ties of his Ration. This, however, the thought
propor to refufe, unlefs we fent her 25,000 men
with fuch a General. To this we could not com-
ply, and we confequently reheated her from all
obligations with regard to this country. She pro-
ceeded then to make her peace with France ; and
here our fidelity manifetled itfelf ; for when the
was on the point of fubmitting to the moll
rigor-
ous terms, we ftept in, and by a fubfidy Caved her
from the impending danger, and reftored her to
thofe limits which otherwife would have been taken
from her on the Continent of South America.-1
His Lordthip then went into a very accurate and
geographical defcription of thefe limits on the
Arawari and the neighbourhood of the River Ama-
zons, with the view of proving that the mag-
nitude, and the effect of the ceffion made there,
is by.no means of that import which was defcribed
in the fpeeches made on the fubjed by Gentlemen
who entertain different opinions ; and therefore
the arrangement made refpeding this, agreed in
effential tub Rance and fpirit with the Preliminaries.
The Hon. Mr. Poza WILLISLY feconded the
amendment.
Mr. T. GRENVILLE faid, that in the obfervations
he had to make, he thould confine himfelf fiddly
to the anfwer of the arguments which the Noble
I Lord had advanced in favour of the treaty of peace.
But before he proceeded, he wiffied fir ft tot:9, a few
words upon what his Right Hon. Friend had laid
of the neceffity of fupporting the fpirit of the people
of this country. This obfervation he conceived
applied to what had fallen from the Noble Lord
towards the conclufion of his fpeech. The Noble
Lord faid, that the people were tired out with the
war, that they cried out for peace, and that the
joy they expretted upon the peace was greater than
he witted to have feen—This was the point at iffue
between his Majcity's Minifters and thofe Gentle-
men who concurred with him in opinion upon the
lubjed. He contended, that the fpirit of the people
of this country was what he hoped it always would
be; that the people were ready to (land forward in
defence of their honour and fecurity, and that at
the laft period of the war, the fpirit of the country
was as great as it had been at any period during
the cornett. He then proceeded to comment upon
differents parts of the Noble Lord's fpeech z he con-
tended that this country would have derived great
advantages from the renewal of the treaties. With
regard to that part of the queftion which related
to India, he faid he was allonfthed to hear a Right
Hon. Gentleman laft night fpeak fo tightly of the
Treaty of 1783 and the Convention of 1787, be-
caufe in the projed of the Treaty of Lifle, he teemed
to with to confirm thofe Treaties which he now
reprefented as worfe than ufelefs.
Mr. DUNDAS rote to vindicate hlmfelf from an
imputation brought forward by the Right Hon..
Gentleman who (poke laft. That Right Hon. Gen-
tleman had accufed him of laying, that by the non-
renewal of former Treaties, in the cafe of India,
the poifon which they contained had been lett out.
The fad was, and he defired to have it clearly
and fatisfadorily underftood, that in the Treaty
of 1787 would be found an antidote to the poifon
contained in that of 1783. The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, in calling the attention of the Houle to
the effed of the Definitive Treaty on our Indian
poffeffions, had not thought proper to confider
that country, as its prefent ftate differed from that
of 1787. He had indeed viewed it as it vatted in

t 78j and 1707, but not * tingle word had bteii atf
•vanced as to what it was in tßoz. He had paired
over as unworthy of notice the vat augmentationot
territory lately acquired there, and the great in.
create of revenue, and of the iources of national in
duftry and opulence. With the fame confi ftency the
fubverfion of the Myforean Empire had been left
out of the queftion, an event which, with other
important circumdances, had eflablithed firmly,
and, he trolled, permanently, the Britins Sove.
reignty in the Eatt. As to his own opinion on the
omiffion of the former Treaties in the Definitive
Peace, lie fhould plainly Rate that he confidered
the Peace better in evei y ref pea without the re.
newal of the Treaties of t7C.3 and 1787, than it
they had becn renewed in that Aft with France._.
Having raid thus much in confequence of the re.
marks which had fallen from the Right Hon.
Gentleman, he felt hinifelf called upon to offer
Tome oblervations to the Houfe n ith refpeet to the
opinion lie had formerly given on the fuhjea o:
the Cape of Good Hope, and of the nand of
Malta. The Cape of Good Hope was in his inind
of Atoll interetl to the Country, and of fuch mag.
nitude, both in a political and commercial view,
that as lie had direaly maintained, nothing but a
laft and irrefiftable confederation Should have in.
duced us to have given it up. The concern which
he then expreffed, !till remained in his brcafi, and
there were no motives that could perfuade him tc
conclude a Peace with France,if by one of the cop
ditions of that Peace we were to relinquith occult-
ment fo truly valuable. It was, he believed, unne-
ceffary for him to enumerate the benefits which this
country mull have derived from retaining that ac-
quifition in our hands, and on the contrary the
refult would be proportionably beneficial to the
enemy. The Situation of the Cape was fo very ad-
vantageous, that independently of other confider-
ations it would ferve as a depot between China and
the Continent of India and Europe. In alluding
to Malta, on which he had alto upon a former oc-
cafion delivered his fentiments, he would again
repeat them, and fay that he raw no grounds for
changing his opinion. Malta, he no doubt very
highly valued in a commercial light, for by the
advantages of its Situation it was capable of covet-
ing our trade in the Levant, and of promoting our
commerce in the Mediterranean; but it was not
in that view alone he beheld it. He law in it a
mighty proud watch tower, on which the Brit&
flag would be difplayed to the glory of this coml•
try, and to the admiration of the piling nations.
He certainly walled to have the ifland garrifoned
by Britifh troops, for he would not mull a poffelflon
of fuch vaft importance to other hands. Having
Rated his former fentiments on thefe two heads, he
might be alked, whether he valued the opinions he
had formerly given in refpedt to them both ? as
much as he valued the reftonition ofPeace, and to
a queftion to put, be would anfwer direaly, openly
and candidly : He Should then fay, that if he had
been one of the Adminibation engaged in the con-
elution of the Definitive Treaty, he would not have
made Peace with France at the expence of the
Cape and of Malta. He fhould not vote for the
Addrefs, for lie could not vote with thole who
prorated a defire to preferve the Peace, and yet
were loud in their inve3ives againft it ; but the
Amendment Should have his fupport, as it did not
pledge the Houfe to every part of the Treaty.
dvir. GRENVILLE explained.
General GASCOIGNE Paid, that, when he confi.
dered the magnitude of the fobjea under dircul-
fion, and that a number of Members were, at that
late hour, delirous of Submitting their opinions on
the nature of the Treaty, he felt it his duty to
move the queftion of adjournment.
The CHANCELLOR OF THE ERCHECTER, though
fully fenfible of the importance of afpeedy decifion
on this very interefting f,,,bjea, yet witlied its merits
to be fully difcuffed : and if he could be allured
that there were Gentlemen (till anxious to deliver
their fentiments, he Should not oppofe the queftion
of adjournment.
Mr. PITT (poke a few words to the fame cffelt.
He profeffed himfelf fo fatisfied with the able, itn-
preflive, and eloquent (peech of his Noble Friend,
that he was ready to give a filent vote for the Ad-
drefs. He thought full jullice had alto been done
to the arguments on the other fide, in the ,cry
able. fpeeches delivered this evening. Unlefs it
could be Rated that many Gentlemen were Rill
anxious to deliver their fentiments, and that new
matter yet remained to be urged, he was againft
adjourning fo very interelling a queßion.
Mr. Gaxv Paid, that however he might be dif.
poled to vote again the Addrefs, he was lefs in-
clined to oppofe the Amendment, for though he
could not help thinking that the dangers of the
country were greater by the Definitive Treaty than
by the Preliminary Articles, yet he was convinced
upon the whole that his Majefty was well advifed
to put an end to the conteft even on thofe terms,
rather than continue the war. It was difficult to
reconcile the conduct of the Right Hon. Gentle.
man oppollte to him (Mr. Dundas) who was
ready to concur in applauding the wifdom of the
Treaty, yet Strongly arraigned that wifdom, in.
afmuch as it had finaioned a meafure to which
he himfelf would not have acceded—the ceffion of
the Cape of Good Hope and of Malta. The war,
he was convinced, had failed in all its objets, and
our fucceffes, however Signal, had been feparate,
and their great end had been confequently defeated.
Mr. DUNDAI in explanation, undertook to ex-
culpate himfelf from the charge of incontiftency
preferred againft him by the Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. SHERIDAN Paid, that it was his intention to
introduce an amendment for the purpofe of bring-
ing forward graver and more important matter,
and of giving to feveral Gentlemen on his fide of
the Houfe an opportunity of delivering their opi-
nions more at length.
The quellion was put on the Motion for adjourn-
ing the Debate till to-morrow, when the Houle
divided—Ayes 187—Noes t 35—Majority 52.
At half pail Three o'clock the Houk ad.
jousned.

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