Star.
London, England, 1801-03-17 00:00:00

MARTIAL LAW IN IRELAND.

Previous to thp fecond reading of the Bill for
continuing Martial Law in Ireland, Lord CASTLE
REACH mit to make a few obfervations on the
number of officers which, according to the Bill,
were ncceifary to conititute a Court Martial, and
which had furnifhed a lubjee of ccnfure on a former
night. He 'Hated, that when the• Bill was intro-
duced in 1799, the Irifh Parliament had not judged
it neceffary to enter into any detail of regulations
for the management of courts martial, but had
thought it moil expedient to leave this to the de-1
termination of the Governor. When the Bill v:as
brought in a fecond time; this regulation had been
adopted, on the fuggeftion of an Honourable
Member, though he could affert with certainty
that/to court martial s'cr did fit which was corn-
pored of fo fmall a number.—Previous to every
court martial an enquiry had always been Mai-
tuted, and the report of thole who had inftituted
this enquiry had, in all cafes, become the ground
of its future appointment. Though for hiturell he
was convinced that the regulations which might
be neceffary in the execution of this law, would be
more properly left entirely to the Executive Go-
vernment, inftead of being the fubjee of Legilla-1
tive appointment, becaufe by this means a greater
degree of refponfibility would attach, yet he was
perfe.ftly willing to accede to say alteration which
would tend to fatisfy the fcruples which exill in
any Gentleman's mind.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR rote to fay, that he fhould
certainly give his molt decided oppofition to the
ufe of any fpecies of torture in the execution of
this kw. He united the Noble Lord would in-
troduce a claufe into the Bill on the fubjee, and
if he did not, he should certainly propofe it in the
Committee.

Lord CA Vl' LER TAG u prOfefid Mint& altogether
at a lots to conceive to what the Honourable Gen-
tleman alluded. He had never heard of a charge
more groundlcfs than this; and he hoped the Ho•
nourable Gentleman did not mean to convey a
charge that the Government had, even in any one
intbuice, countenanced the ufe of tortur... With
refpeti to the clank, it ntnuld be time enough to
Rate his opinion on it when it was propofed ; but,
in the mean time, he had thought it incumbent on
him to difclaim the charge in the moll unqualified
manner.

Sir Joan Pat a att. rofe to remark ou the azure;
but fat down or. being reminded by the Speaker
that this was not the queflion before the Houfe, but
the fimple point of the &cowl reading of the Bill.
Mr. M. A. TavLoa.—l hope, Sir, I (hall be
heard in vindication of what I have heard from
many different individuals. The Noble Lord fup-
pores that I meant to convey a charge on the con-
dud of the Government of Ireland. I will tell
that Noble Lord that I am hut in the pralice of
making charges on frivolous grounds, or in a fide
way. I examine fully the grounds on which I
bring forward any charges, and then, Sir, I Rate
them in a fair, open, and manly manner If he
would only give hinsfelf the trouble to think a lit-
tle upon the fubjeCt on which he teems to have fuch
doubts, he would find I am not the only one who
entertains the opinion of torture having been in-'
flitted in Ireland, but that a charafter of high au,
thority in Ireland eapreired the fame in one of
his fpeeches in the Houfe of Commons of that
country, which was afterwards publifhed (and with
his name fa is it, exclaimed a Meader). The fame
things were mentioned by other Members, and the
fame things were vindicated by the prefent Chan-
cellor of Ireland. On what ground .then does the
Noble Lord fay theft things are not permitted in
Ireland ? I fay they are permitted—they were per-
mitted under the adruhuffration of Lord Camden,
the predeceffor of the prefent Governor, and they
are continued under that of Lord Coxnwallis.—
To prove it, we have only to look to the reports
of the Committtes of the frith Hintfes of Parlia-
ment. Does the Noble Lord fuppore we are quite
ignorant of what paffes in Ireland ? Does he think,
becaufe he hears a cry of hear, hear, from a cer-
tain quarter, that he has therefore got me into a
fcrape. lam not going to give any opinion with
rerpee to the Bill, which is about to be read a fe-
cond time. I have a(certained all the riffs by
perfons who have come from Ireland, which
prove how far fuel, a Bill is necefary. What then
becomes of the bu:,i a/Tertion of the Noble Lord,
that the pradice alluded to was one of which lie
had nc knowledge. He comes forward to deny
its exiftence ; and becaufe he hears a cry of order
from a certain quarter, he thinks he has got me
into a (crape. I did with, when I mentioned this
topic, to have given no pofitive opinion on the nit
rits of the Bill. I have, however, Sir, taken Come
pains to difcover whether fuch eircumflances em-
itted as would 'unify its continuance; and with
great patience I have waited to hear the gpistion
of thole Gentlemen, who, from their local know-
ledge, art beg qualified to (peak on the fubjel.
I have converted, Sir, with Englilis Gentlemen
who have been lately in Ireland, and who have
travelled over different parts of the country, both
by night and by day, and their information has
inclined me to think that there now trigs nothing
in the (fate of Ireland to iotlify the oration.

v•ait, . ............. •-•,!
f the
I hakard a deeifi,
hilt if focit as I havc
with all poiriblQ ad,p;,,l,
certainly fed rnyiltlf hound to giretity tice,at:ve to
the mealure.

Sir foto: PARNT hegan by Rating, th it from
the fullefl information he was entirlca to lay, that
the Lord Lietitenart had cvcr difeovered himfelf
ready, not merely ti check unneeeffiry cruelty,
hut to lean to the tide of mercy. 'fliat cruel!;es
had been perpetrated during the height of the ie.
hellion, all were necellitated to admit with regret,
but it was not true that these cruelties owed dieir
origin to Courts Martial. He had many reafone
which would diffuade him at prefent from paying
court to the Lord Lieutenant, but a flatement of
there circumilances he owed to jultice and truth.
He did not feel bimfelf inclined to difputc the Ile-
ceifity of the meafure, under the prefent circum
(lances of Ireland, but he could not help wifhing
that it might undergo every poffible modification.
If it were pdflible, he should like to fee a permanent
Court of Civil Juitice eftablifhed, which might be
proteded in the due cxercife of its authority. By
the Union he trailed that at lean there would be
a uniformity of Law for England and Ire Land—
. he did not believe Ireland to be in In dif-
trafted a Rate as fame Gentlemen have reprelcnted,
yet lie was willing to admit that the meafure might,
under proper modifications, be attended with ad-
vantage. He was anxious that as far as poffible
the civil authority might be exerted, and he was
periliaded that the exercife of civil authority, aided
by military power, would meet the evils of the
.country. As long as it was neceffary to tranfgrcfs
the principles of the conititution, as long as it was
nccclfary to furpcnd the exercife of law, In long
would difconteat he protraaed, fo long would the
violence of difaffeaion be continued. The return
of the ancient forms of juitice, the exercite of the
general pri!icipk of law, he viewed as the fpeedieit
meaus of producing the complete zeiloration of
tranquillity, happinels, and order.
Sir LawatENcr PARSOKS entered into a minute,
c'scumilantial detail of the prefent Rate of Ireland.
He !hewed that in various parts of the country not
a tingle Court Martial had taken place within the
two years, but that offences of every deferip.
tion had been tried by the common law of the land.
He called on the Noble Lord who brought for-
ward the meafure to Phew, in a tingle in&ance,
that the Juilices of Affize had been obliged to in-
termit their ufual courfe of legal proceeding—that
they were unable to 6nd Juries for the trial of of-
fenders, or that the Juries when found were unwil-
ling to perform their duty. He defied the Noble
Lord to produce a tingle inflame where this had
happened, or that the Jultices had complained of
any Juries refilling to atER them in the exereife of
their legal authority. If no fuch inflance could be
produced, if the Judges had in no cafe 'complain-
ed of their inability to execute their duty, the na-
tural inference was, that the country was in a Rate
of tranquillity. The Honourable Baronet then
entered into a full view of the Rate of a confider-
able number of different counties, and contended.
that in none of them was there any thing to jellify
the meafure. He deprecated the pradice of el.
aggcrating the didurbed Rate of the country, as
hoding out an encouragement to our common
enemy to projea an invasion—and concluded by
contending that all the boated advantages of the
Union in diffufing civilization over Ireland by the
introduaion of Englifli fettlers, would be nugatory
as long as martial law was continued..
Mr. WiLLIAM BRAIIANZON PONSONRY thought
the queilion now was not fo much refpeding what
had paired in Leland before, as what was bell to be
adopted fur its future tranquillity. From every
thing that fell under his knowledge he was con-
vinced that the Rate of Ireland was not nearly fo
diflurbed as had been reprefented ; but he allowed
that at prefent there prevailed a confiderahle de-
gree of difcontent. The prefent meafure did not
feem to him well fitted to remove their difcontent,
but he conceived that the loyalty of the people
would be better edabliffied by a mild fyllem of po-
lky. The adoption of fuch a fyftem, he was per
was the only thing which would ever ba-
nith ditaffedlion and retort cordial attachment to
the Government.

Lord Casreta 'sox Paid, that there could be
nothing more unwarranted than to fuppofe that
• the AFt now before the Houfe was ever to be ufed
for the purpofes of cruelty or tyranny. If Gentle-
men meant to fay that the Irifli Government had
ever in any inflance countenanced torture, he felt
himfelf called upon to repel the charge with incig-
nation. He did not pretend to deny that, during
the rebellion, cruelties of the moll atrocious kind
had exited, but the caufes of thefe cruelties were
of a nature altogether oppofite to that which fonts
Gentlemen feemed difpofed to inlnuate. So far
were they from being infligated by the Governments
that they arofe from a want of means in the hands of
Government to afford to the loyal part of the com-
munity effedual and regular pretedion. From this
inability in the Government protection was of ne-
cern ty entrufted W individuals, nor was it furprifiag
that, in the coate s betwixt rebels and loyal fubjeds,
cruelties of the molt atrocious nature were ocea-
lionally perpetrated. But it has been under martial
law that the Government has been enabled to take
the defence of the loyal fuhjed into its own hands,
that tl,e contells betreen individuals had been put
an end to, and that the cruelties which marked the
early periods of the rebellion had ceafed. To the
extinction of thefe cruelties, the efforts of the Lord
Lieutenant were from the firft direded. His ob-
jed has ever been to mitigate the cruelty infepara-
bie in force desrec from a Rate of warfare, where
the defence of ivies or the protedion of property iá
not derived from the Government, but committed
to individuals. 'ais has been the conflant prin.
eiple on which the Government has aged, and it
has been on this nuatfure that its views have been
carried into full ethd, and that they have heed
enabled to firike terror into the guilty, and to in.
fpire the well•difpored with confidence and &rec.
tins. It was the duty of Gentlemen *bora=
fpebe of the cruelties of the rebellion to
that confpiraey was organised, and to forpond
their wonder Ibnto at a period when the loyal tab-

was enlivened to centbat, unaided, ultli the
rebel, paffion thoule fonietimes triumph
c fober judgment,and the dictates of rage fliottld
triumph over the fweec impultes of humanity and
nicrcy. It was fail that thefe cruelties were jufti-
fied by a noble perfonage then high in office in the
country, but this was a grofs milreprefentation of
that Noble Pcrfon's fpcech on that fubjea. He
had not attempted to vindicate the cruelties, but •
had flared that they were in thme degree excuffible
in men ftruggling for all that is dearell to than
again[ a band of unprincipled and fhvage rebels,
and attributed them to their true cattle. Thus
much he confidered it neceffary for him to (late on
the fubjea of the cruelties of the rebellion. The
duns of a court of civil juflice, or the cflablithment
of a Credal contmiaion for the trial of offences, he
confidered to be altogether impoilible in the flare
in which the country was placed. In many parts
or rlie country the evils were of fuck a formidable
nature that nothing was adequate to their fuppref•
lion but the operation of martial law. In the
county of Limerick the fpirit ofrebellionmanifefted
itfelf in the molt dangerous manner during four
months. The peaceful inhabitants were compelled
to fly from their homes, and to take refuge in the
town of Limerick arainft the defperate attacks of
the rebels thirfting for blood. During this time
the loyal fubjeas who fell into their hands a ere
tried by a Court Martial, and their fentences exe-
cuted by vaft bodies of the peafatury, who affan-
bled from the different parts of the country during
the night, and difperfed at the approach of morn •
ing. In fuch a late of diforder as this no perfcn
sonld have gone into the box as a Juryman ex-
cept a rebel, who went there with the exprefs in-
tendon of acquitting the prifoner, however flagrant
the proofs of his guilt. At a time when rebellion
vas lb organized and fo fittal, no man who confu ;Led
his own talety, and-the fafety of a peaceable part
of the community, would have advjted the Go-
vernment to fend the judges into the different
parts of the country for the trial of offences. But
what, on the other hand, had been the confequence
of the meafure now propofed to be renewed :
Under its influence a general fpirit of loyalty
had been diffufed, the well-difpofed had been
encouraged and proteaed—the rebellious had been
difpirited and configned to p'tuifhment. If this
then was the etre& of the meafure ; if it was allowed
en all hands, that in no cafe the power vetted in the
Government had been abufed, what argument
could be adduced againft its continuance ?- If the
evil which this meafure had tended fo materially
to countergt, Rill exiled in certain perfons, and it
is proved that it had changed the whole face of the
country, by converting a (cent of defolation and
death Into one of comparative tranquillity and
bappinefs, was not on the other hand its continu-
ance called for by every principle of liberal policy ?
If the tranquillity of the country had not been
tranfitory, if it had not been proved by repeated
experience that places which this day were calm
and peaceful, were the next ditturbed and rebel-
lious, perhaps, indeed, the meafure might now
have been laid allele. But among many inlances
of the deceitful appearances of tranquillity, the
Rate of Wexford was peculiarly (hiking, where
the rebellion broke out before its exilence was even
fufpetited. Becaufe, under the operation of this
law, confpiracy had been defirco,ekl, becaufe loy-
alty bad been protected and confidence in the Go-
vernment fecured, it was too much to expea that
difaffetlion was annihilated. It was fullicient that
all thofe who were bound to the rebellion by fear,
have been afforded that degree of proteaion which
has enabled them to exprefs their real fentiments;
have acquired that degree of fecurity which has
allowed them to return to their allegiance, to their
Sovereign, and the laws. He was willing to al-
low, that in nlany cafes the Judges had, during
the ball two years, been enabled to perform their
duty. But this was not the queftion before the
Houk ; the quelion was, could they have done
their duty in the diflanded parts of the country ?
It had been Paid indeed by one Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Ponfonby) that nothing was fo
much calculated to reflore tranquillity to the
country, as the adoption of a flftem of mild and
humane policy. The Right I-Moumble Gentle-
man did not mean by this recommendation, to re-
commend the abandoqusent of the zpeafures on
which depended the proteßion of the fubjea. The
brit principle of Government was rarely to afford
protection to thofe who wilted to rally round its
Randard. If then it is proved that the medure in
queition has been the means of enabling the people
to rally round the landard of loyalty ; if it is
proved that it has animated the pod and infpireij
the guilty with difmay • it it is proved dig it is a
meafure at once calculated: to afford proteaion
againft the rebel within and the enemy without,
there could Curtly be no firouger motives to in-
duce the Houle to agree to the continuance of its
operation. The likeließ means of encouraging a
foreign enemy was that difiraetion should prevail
in the country ; and he put it therefore with con-
fidaice to the Houfe, whether this was a time to
abandon a meafure which had gone far to put an
end to this diftratftion, which had gone far to effea
the complete refforation of whatever is dearell in
civil fociety ?
Mr. MART'S (of Galway) laid that from the
lath Rated by an Honourable Baronet ( Sir Lan.
rence Parfons), he thought hiinfelf jufliiied in
drawing a conclufion diametrically oppolite to that
drawn by the Honourable Baronet. He lays that
Iceland is tranquil,and theretbre the mature now
pupated is unneceffary. But he (Mr. Martin)
tuna be permitted to argue in a contrary fenle :
If it he true that Ireland is tranquil, that happy
'fleet is owing to the operation of this Bill ; it
therzfore fhonld be continued. The Honourable
Gentleman then proceeded to vindicate the Go-
vernment of Ireland from the imputation of cruel-
ty thrown upon it, in permitting individuals to be
tortured in order to extort confelfrons from them.
It might be true that in Come inftances Cowie mea-
fures were ufed to come at the dircorery of certain
enormities; bat it u well known that an order was
Wined by Marquis Cornwallis, forbidding any
tang like torture from being employed to induce
individuals to make confeffions to criminate them-
hives. He would a& the Honourable Gentleman

(Mr. Tay ) who made the afl.ition that torture-
was refintcj to tier that ropoti:, vbethcr
any law in Ireland, aull,,ri:ing mar, to
torture another in order to c t .'itch a confdlion
from him ? He would again ark him, whether
there was any claufe in the relent Pill cialferring
filch a power upon the huh Goverurnent ? If the
Honourable Gentleman had not male the tirll
fertion from ignorance (ignorance lie meant 01 y
in this particular), he trailed at leatt be lhonhi
and wer kiln as a fcnfible rind rational man. Will
that Honourable Gentleman pertift, then, in his
relalution of moving a claufe agaiaft a clatife which
is trot contained in this Bill ? He furcly adfild
not have attended to the contents of the Bill,
when he came forward with fuch a notice.

Mr. Coo ItTEN AY complimented the frith Mem•
bers for the temper, good fenle, and moderation,
which they had difplayed throughout the long de-
bate upon this delicate queftion, and for the in-
formation they had afforded the Houle to guide
their judgments in deciding on it. He was far
from denying that martial law might not have
been neceffary while the rebellion raged ; but
now, when it appeared to be quite luppreled—
when it was acknowledged that the Judges went
on the circuits as uftal, and that judice was ad-
miniftered iu the accuftomed forms without any
interruption or moleftation, why have recourfe to
a meafurc that could tend only to create irritation
and (lit-content ? If it was true, as had been flated,
that in certain diftriCts neither jurors nor witneffes
could Venture to do their duty without expoting
their perlimal fafety, why not erea a tribunal in
thole parts where tranquillity prevailed, and where
the trial might be proceeded on without being
liable to the fficulties uit It which, in the di limbed
parts, it was fitid to he oh:true-led ? He recolleCted
that about thirty years a;;ii, when be was in Ire-
land, there were then in that country what were
called It Vic Bvs, 1-I,wr:-.9r•0al I:;ys, and Heall-y.
Bop: Jurors and witneffe were then alto in-
timidated ; but what conduit did the Brownlows
and Connollys, thole revered names, adopt upon
that emergency ? They applied to Lord Town-
Iltend, then his Majelty's teprcfentative in that
kingdom ;—and what was the relitlt? Was martial
law then proclaimed ? On the contrary, did w't
' moderation, wifdom, and lenity, dittinguith the
Government of that illustrious Nobleman ? Was
it not under that Government that the firft ray-
of liberty dawned upon Ireland in the palling
of the OCtennial Bill ? And has not the grateful
recolleftion of the benefits conferred upon Ireland
by his adrninifttation, been ever fincc annually
celebrated by the Irifh nation with th.tt fervour
of honeft conviviality for which the It ifh are fo
jultly remarkable ? It has been acknowledged by
molt Gentlemen from that country who have fpoken
on the prefent qucftion, that there was now bit( one
court martial in Ireland: If that was the cafe, could
there be any real neceffity for a law to atifolute, ty-
rannical, and oppreffive as that now propoled ? The
wifdom of Marquis Cornwallis had Jane more to-
wards tranquilizing Ireland than all the trials that
had been inflituted by martial law. And indeed,if re-
[Wring that unfort ulnae countr y to :rang ttilli ey could
be the effeCl of any fuch law, why have lent fo great
a number of his Majefty's belt troops to do it ?-1
The Habeas Corpus Ad is alto to continue fufpend-
ed in Ireland ; and if a Gentleman goes from hence
to that country, where is his fecurity for his per-
fonal liberty ? may he not be tried by a martial
tribunal and fhot ? Are there the blefEngs that
were held out as retuning from the Union? Was
it not promifed that the Imperial Parliament
should make no diftinCtion between the two coun-
tries ? In this, and not only in this, are the Peo-
ple of Ireland to be difappointed :—the Roman
Catholics, it teems, are alto to be difappoiated.—
But he anzioufly trulted that no artifice, no in-
trigue, would be (uttered to prevent that qusftinn
from coming before Parliament,and when it did, he
as earneftlyhoped that it would be difcuffed with
thole feelings of generofity which thould diftinguifh
the difpotition of thole of that Houfe towards the
people of Ireland. The Honourable Gentleman
then proceeded to thew that his Hon. Friend
(Mr. Taylor) was perfalli well founded in his
affertions, which were abundantly confirmed by
the orders which were acknowledged to have been
iffued by Marquis Cornwallis. thefe orders ful
ly proved the eziftence of the 'senile of torture
in Ireland. Then why accufe his Hon. :friend of,
having made a grouudlefs affection t
- Col-LONGFIELD (Member for Cork) faid, that
he had this day received a letter intimating, that
two refpetlable and alive Magiaratet Kid been
fired at, and with difficulty ;leaped from a horde
of banditti. The mail-coachqs wine even now at-
tacked by bands of rebels, more numerous, and as
well armed as the regular troops. Gentlemen
might take upon them to fay, that the country
was tranquil, but thefe tiets proved the contrary.
The only Gentleman who made finch an affertion,
with a fluulow of excule, was one (Sir L. Parfons)
who admitted that he had nut been in Ireland thefe
two months. He would take upon him to fay,
that that country was now in a worfe condition
than it was on the 23e: of May 11798, the day up-
on which the halt rebellion broke out. The rebels
complained that they were then taken by fUrprife,
and that they were forced into aajon before all
their forces were in rcadinefs. It was from this
circumftance that they dated all their misfortunes;
and this was a fillip& on which they (poke moll
freely. They laid that they would never quit
their purfuit until they got what they wanted ;
and on being :Liked what they wanted, the reply
was—a feparation from England. On a review
of all thole circumstances, he felt it a matter of
Cm-price, that any kith Member mould be found
to rife in his place, and to (tate that country to be
in a flare of tranquillity.
Mr. DAWN3N obferved, that it had been raid,
that by this Bill the Houle was called upon to cure
A grievance which did not caia. He would not
(peak ;it much length upon the matter. but he
would deliver his leutiments in as few words as be
was able. He lhould be Gary to•approve of the
principle of fuch a Bill as this.—He Iliould be for.
ry to attempt to jultify filch a principle. The
Bill, therefore, in his opinion, could not be julb.
Lied ou hs owa mszita. He ins Care slat

;.ord \eh., tli: forwaod,lool to,
tevetence for lii!!:r..•lint: to Z!!,•
1-3111171.),,nis1.0111.1 !• be
la julliti•ed. I.Vhat th, ii titir•''
1;111? II it,. of Irelatl, aod that on:, ‘Lit- the •
jultification of the meat-ire. It it was ntee!ilir)
in the pi•eint Rate tt irelond to pr••leeve t rar-
quiility Lf ILA: .I.'ottra: y. it ;vas to he jolli:ied ;
othent•iti.: it a Mon:Ler ftid,
that he reprefeeted a great trt.l pi pithrlis County
in Ireland, and if he v..as to he guided by his own
knowledge and oblervation, after having mixed
and converfed much with his Coon:tents, and
received from them a great deal of important in-
formation, he fhould not hefitatc to fay, that the
Bill was not founded on any necerfity whatever :
but he was not that fort of Politician, who would
vote on the means he had of being perfonally ac-
quainted with a thing, in toter defiance of any in-
fwmation which the Debates in that Houfe gave
hint. In the courfe of that Debate, ht had heard'
many honourable Members declare, that to their
perfonal knowledge, feveral parts of Ireland were
in a hate to render this Bill necetraiy, and there-
fore he litould not oppoie it, although he himfelf
did not know of any emergency that required it.
He thould, therefore, vote for the Bill, but he was
happy to oblerve, that there was a probability of
come ports of it being altered in tlfe Committee;
filch, for instance, as that of providing that none ,
of the Parties who were to fit m Judgment on the
Coitrts-Martial to be authorized by this Bill,lhould
he under the age of twenty-one. This was cer- •
tainly a provi which analogy required. In all
the 'titles of life that were to be de, ided by a Ju-
ry, the i.ow required that the Jurors ilvaild be
ascent inn: yea t s of age.—Even in the cafe of a
man hein: convicted of a crime, Judnieht ttpi•n
bilo mutt he atrefted, if it Mould appear that
of his jut y was under aye; and it this x‘ as the
fZule of Law in cafes ALte the life of the holi-
vidoal was forfeited by convia:on, it ritt,7l: to lie
applied to a Court-Martial, in tanner :L.:: that
Coort flvield be made as nearly ana!ogous to L:k ii
Jorifpriolenve asthe nature of the thing wotth:
mit. H.: hoped, therefore, that due care ‘sould
be taken of thi:. ptii.it in the Committee; it was a
'Elea in the preli.nt mode of coniiituting Courts.
Martial, which oughlt- to be remedied. having
laid halt, he be•:••!_ired it to he undcraoud, that he
had no perfonal knowledge of any circumflanees
which made this Bill nee.effary, but that he gave
Gentlemen credit for linccrity, who declared,
upon their knowledge, that it was neceffary, and
therefore he thould not oppofe this Bill.
Mr. ALEXANDER laid, that the confpiracy in Ire-
land, and which it was the ohjeel of this Bill to
defeat, as appeared by the Preamble, was more
extcnfive than, without ilrons evidence, could have
been believed. The confpiracy had its Agents
through every corner of Ireland, and it was orga-
nized in an extraordinary manner—The objea of
that confpiracy was to leparatc Ireland from Eng-
land, and to form a connation between Ireland
and France.. He felt the evils of attempts to carry
fuch an objea into circa, in the unhappy difpori-
tion of thofe who wifhed it, and in their aftions.
He felt that Inch a confpiracy did now exit' to a
vall extent in Ireland, though it was not at prefect
in its full force ; and, when lo many other Gentle-
men had Bated the 'weeny of this IA!, " GOD for-
bid," taid he, " that I fltould with fur any harfh
meafures againft the people of Ireland ; they are
contrary to my nature, but the controcerfy is be-
tween us and the Jacobins of Ireland, and we mull
rule themor the)- will fl (!rule and then deilroy us."

NV I.STV.C.:: A OblerVe4l, that this v:as a mea-
fure tuf neetlity, arifing from the Rate of Ireland ;
and Gentletnnt were not to look into old books
upon this fubjeet, but into Let.. as they were auw
exhibited to vizrr. The past cf Irchlnd from wh:ch
he came, being the northern, was nonquil, butt Lc
underitood the tooth tt. he othLruile ; and from
the hate of Ireland in that quarter, he was con-
vinced, from very important and ferious informa-
tion, that this meafitre was abfolutely ncceifary;
and as fuch he thould give it his hearty fupport.
He hoped mice the day chest ali the people of Ire-
land would look back with horror at the whole
conduet and principles of thofe who had been the
caufe of the calamity that Country had fuffered.
Sir F. BURDETT Paid, that he had hitherto lib-
Itained from delivering any opinion upon the pre-
tint queition, being anxious to hear the fenti-
menu of thole Gentlemen whufe local knowledge
lb much better enabled them to fpeak upon it w.. 11
fatisfaelion and convietion to the lioufe. But,
after having lue Rowed all the attention in his power
on what had fallen from them, he found !heir
Ratements and arguinents lie contradietory, that
he felt it very difficult to make up his mind upon
fuch grounjs. In deciding upon it, he thould
therefore rather adhere to thole general principles
which had hitherto direeted his political conduet.
If, then, he heard that difcontent prevailed, not
only in particular parts, but almotl in every part
of Ireland, he thought himfelf juilified in infer-
ring that this general dfifeentnit mutt have a gene-
nerd c..iy?, and that cauk he looked upon to be
Oppretlion. Will this meafure do away the
grounds, of d:frontent ; or arc there the effeas
that were to hs erpeeted from the Union ? Some
II yle the di:luirbances in Irelar.d a Jacobin rebel-
lion; others call it a Pupa rebellion—an attempt
to caul:dill, a Pepin' Hierarchy in tbat-Country ;
others again reprefent the jurors and witnelfes as
greedy for blood, and reprefent this as a meafurc
of knit, to Feta that funguntary difpofition ; while
others argue in favour of it, as ore that is to pro_
ted jurors and witnetfes in the confcientious
charge of their duty ? From fuch various flate-
ments what rational conclufion can be drawn ?
For his part he was difpofed to adopt the dillinc•
tion made by an Honourable Friend of his on a
former occafion, and to recommend having re.
courfe rather to isartial fora than to iswfiarlevv.
All agree refpeaing the good died produced by
the former, and confers that it put down the re-
bellion and reflored tranquillity. But the drift of
their argument would then go to continue this
mode ofadminiitering jufliee for ever. But here
he Should not be tempted to rip open the bleeding
wounds of Ireland, or refer to the cruel tranfac.
Lions that had oaten plats is thataitiatteaate coo&

t il,hown-er, conter!o# !hat what wa• fail
!:•.: of tortore, was lai.l with truth; and on
tol.iaJ be rou'i refer to the opinion d..-lieered
oil that i"!‘„e.t the ttreatr I :Ind wilca man in the
(Mr. Fos), with all his manly eloquence
and titrcihie icakining, he c:pald not obt aM of this
11,11C2 to rime to a vote &Jet-mining that
torttir WAS wit an unc,,ntiitutional meafure—
tbe niosed by him was negatived
niter having ken or poled by the Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. Pitt), who argued in favour of
that ri;torous meafttre on the fame grounds on
which it was flipported by Lord Clare, in Ireland
—aad to the flianic of a Bina Parliament they
acquicfced in the onion of a Britifh Minifier who
did not blurt: to avow fuck a fentiment. But
againh this fentiment and the meafurc it would
jirilify, he mull proteli as a meatiire as unjuit as it
was viulent. And here he would not liefitate (for
he knew he addreited a liberal and eniighterted
:111Cm!):v) to prrpote the condal of Bonaparte as
a niodA. I low did he reilore tranquillity to La
Vendee ?—By firti employing martial force—and
nest by retorting to lenity and mercy. Thefe
&Add be the tics that ibonld hind England and
Ireland together—on thefe principles lhould the
Union he ccmentA ; principles far better than a
mere parchment of Union would ever dilate. Let
the Houle, therefore. endeavour to place Ireland
in fuck a flate, as not to compel her to look for
relief from France ; if they are fo inclined, they
I will begin rot with giving her martial law, which
has been fo ..bufed, but by treatink h.r with
a ;Mk jullace and a little mercy, ss hien the has
hitherto not known : if Inch he not the difpolitiim
of the Houf'e, tbey may have to make the mclan.
chol y h cflenion that they will be sating in the Uni-
Ld Parliament of a difunited country.
Mr. PIT rue to declare that no Push opinion as
that imputed to l:nn be the llcno;:rabl..! Gentle-
man I elparin_t ti!e v!'e of te.rture had been deliver.
e 3 by lion on the oreation alluded to. So far from
it, he was not even relent at the debate in whic4
that qoeflion was di:chifed.
Sir F. Buitos-r-r tail, that to the belt of his re.
collection he had heard the Right Honourable. Gen.
tlernan argue foinewhat to that effea, but if thele
were not his fntiments, he now rejoiced to learn it.
The Sri. tociot took occalion to oblerve, how ir-
re.;tilar it was to refer to pail debates, and hoped
it would be' abflain:d from.

Mr. SHERIDAN Laid that no reference was made
to the debates of the prefent lemon, but to thofe
even of a different Parliament.
Mr. Pirr obferved it was fill more extraordi-
nary, for the allufion is made nit to what paired
on a former feflion, or a former Parliament, but
to opinions which never have been uttered.
Mr. SHERIDAN contended that the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman had no reafon to triumph in
the mistake, for it he had not exprefred the fend-
ment imputed to him in that precifc debate, film.
thing very timilar had been delivered by him on
other ominous.

Lord De EtaoyiEar. role to give his moll de-
iupport to this meafure, which he conficlered
ac eil:ential to the fecurity of Ireland, and, in his
opinion, it would have been fortunate for Ireland,
it recourfe had .bcen had to it at an earlier period.
Ile would not have troubled the Houfe, but that
tome obfervations had fallen from time Gentle-
men, which be could not flax to pats unnoticed.
An ki-.nourable Bartnot had propoled, that there
humid be but ore Law for the two countries. Now,
before the fame La-.r could be applicable.to both,
Countries, it would be necetrary either to create
a Rebellion in Englar :1, or to put down thzt which
c vitted in Irehind.:—Other Gentlemen had declared,
that there were no eitt:rts-ma:tial Cuing in Ireland,
and Jw:ors and IC $ could di:char7e their ditty-
he etathl by no means afTent
to thefe alitaiionq, for he c. aid .hat:, not cue but
fifty inhances of perfons being murdered for hay.
lag faithfully performed their duty as Jurors or
Witneffes ; and as to courts-martial, they had al-
way-scot:Mined to tit.—lt thould be recollected, tliat
perfons could only be tried by the Courts of Law
twice a-year, as there were only two Circuits,
but the filety of Ireland required that off, ndcrs
of the nature that Ireland was infefted with, fhould
be fpcedily brought to junice.—With relpat to the
tranquillity which was font:fed to exill in Ireland,
he could only fay, that in July Lift they burnt his
!mufc to the ground ; he fuppofed they intended
it as a compliment to him, for it was upon his
hirth•day. His l.ord(hip then proceeded to hate
other intlances of difturbances and infurretnion.—
Thout Iron a quedion of this kind he was cf
opinion that great deference ought to be paid to
the opit-.7 In; of Gentlemen coming from Ireland,
yet he was far from withing that Ireland thould
legihate for h:rfelf, hr one of the greaten advan-
tages that Ireland, in his opinion, would derive
from the Union, would be her having the benctit
of Englith Legiflature. His Lordlhip concluded
with Laying, that fome Gentlemen of this Country
Rill perfitied in Rating Ireland to be in a tranquil
nate ; now if a few of thufe Gentlemen would pro-
mife to go over to Ireland and relish: in any part
helhould mention, he would vote with them againtt
the Bill.

Mr. T. Joars conndered the Bill as highly un-
ell and irr petit ic. It V... 11 part of afy Ron by v..b;cll
Minitiers rcduecd the country to death's doer,
and nolo; the Ij Rent w.ts fpeedily abandoned, ruin
•,vtot

The quettion was then loudly called for, and the
'.•:li cleared. The Howe, however, did
not divide..

The Motion, sv: unlerfhrd, wog:Ili-era to, dm
Bill was reAd time, and orducd to be
committe,:.

pr T:,17 r.nr LI 111 IRrLiND.

The ltepcs7t r ins the OM 7e
of Nlaller ~1 ::•i.t rrel.trkt, r • :s brcii2;lt.
On the Moti.in •'. • amcndmc:t:s be r.ad fe.
cond time,
Mr. M. A. TAILCIR rofc, and cerfitred the fill
in rzry fevers. The tvhulc trantietion he
denominated a job. Two Noble Lords. who had
no claim for comp:M..olml, were to receive the pro-
mifed reward fur their vote on the quetion of
Union. The pretence was Slimly. 'There wasn9
occafton for tic Chancellor cant% over tu ;his