Star.
London, England, 1830-02-05 00:00:00

/seasons. The noble duke concluded

dress to his majesty, which was,
speech.
The address having been reed
Lord SALTOUN, (who was
uniform,) in rising to second
all the arguments advanced by s.
lady in what had been advanced
relations. With respect to Turkey.
thelnation did not directly affect this
le of Wag- attended with
L sliihicabed.edienerle f
•
e se favouiably. With
ip thought.that in low
sovereignty was vested in the
of Braganca, but the Portuguese preferred the younger,
and it was not for this country to interfere with other
nations regarding what rulers they should have. His
lordship felt satisfied that our relations with Portugal
could not continue in their present state. In alluding to
the expenditure of the country, his lordship felt much
satisfaction in understanding that the retrenchment was
equal to the falling off in the revenue, and that without
impairing our military or naval establishments. There
could be no doubt that great distress existed in the coun-
try, and perhaps it was singular that such distress should
exist, considering the extent of our exportations. Some
attributed it to over-production, others to a change in the
currency ; various persons assigned various- causes for it,
and also proposed various remedies; but, looking at them
all, his lordship could not say what altogether were the
causes ; nor did he think that in all the remedies proposed
any could be found sufficiently efficient. In his opinion the
distress arose from receiving small profits from much
produce, or, in other words, during the war we had our
own prices for all our own manufactures, our own ships,
our own carriers, and everything our own way. Whim
peace came, an improvement in machinery followed ; we
ceased to ave the same profit. It was then first out
manufacturers felt distress, and that was about 1820
behre the change in the currency had taken place, so
Sat it could not arise from this last measure ; and though
distress had continued down to this period, it could not
be on account of the change in the currency, for similar
distress prevailed in Scotland, where there was no restrie-
lion on the issuing of notes. When the question should
come before the house, he would give it the best conside-
ration of which he was capable. His lordship concluded
by seconding the address.
Earl STANHOPI observed that, when this country was
in a state of distress unequalled in extent, and intolerable
in its pressure, it behoved that house to address the crows
in language quite different from that which had been noW
read. He weedd ask if the speech reed from the •
was a real and true representation of the stabs of the
country ? If it was any other speech than that of his
majesty, he would say that a more inapt speech, or ass
more full of misrepresentation, had never been written.
His lordship here read that part of the speech which re-
lated to the state of the country, observing that, instead
of " some parts," it should be stated in the speech that
" every part" of the country was in distress. He would
ask the noble duke at the head of his majesty's govern-
ment in what part of the country distress did not appear?
To construe that speech in plain English it was this :
" You are in great distress, but you must take great care
not to try to get out of it. You have fallen into a river,
but you must take care not to try to get oat,
.or you
will be worse :" (laughter.) When we see numerous
causes productive of distress, how could the noble
mover of the address say that our distress was only tem-
porary ? When we see clouds hanging over us. should we
not fear the approach of a tempest ? No man could look
on the state of the country without dismay. Yet the
noble duke told us not to despond. He (Lord Stanhope)
did not feel disposed to yield to despondency ; but this
country would have reason to despond, if relief were not
afforded in time. The language of the speech was•the
less excusable, because the noble duke at the bead of his
majesty's government was well acquainted with the ex-
tent of the distress of the country, having travelled much
during the recess through different parts of it ; no doubt,
for a different purpose, (laughter :) but still hi grace
must have collected much from observation and from the
county meetings, though formerly his grace was pleased
to term county meetings a farce. He (Lord Stanhope)
would point out some other meeting, not far from the place
in which he now stood, whose proceedings bordered on a
farce (laughter.) His grace had heard of the distress from
the grand jury of the county in which he (Lord Stanhope)
lived. Yet, notwithstanding all this, his grace promised
nothing consolatory to the sufferings of the people. He
(Lord Stanhope) regretted it, on account of the noble duke
himself, who, having been placed on a pinnacle of glory
to which no living man had ever attained, accepted the
office of prime minister, and found the vessel of the state
surrounded with rocks and quicksands ; still he continued
the same system which caused all these peril' and
dangers. True, he can say, " I am the person who has
brought about catholic emancipation ;" but he (Lord S.)
would say, that the measure had been reluctantly ex-
torted from the noble duke by the menaces of the asso-
ciation. He (Lord S.) would not now enter into the
particulars of the distress, because he intended in a few
days to move for a committee to inquire into the state of
the nation. There was no person acquainted with the
state of the nation (the Duke of Wellington only excepted)
who did not consider that much of the distress aror from
legislative measures. Every person knew that an unfa-
vourable season was unfavourable to agriculture, but who-
ever knew, except the noble mover of the addresi, that
an unfavourable season would lower the price of corn.—
The corn bill proved extremely injurious to the nation. It
was represented by the late Lord Redesdale as a robbery.
Had any person ever beard of unfavourable sessoninsususg
butter, cheese, and wool, to be sold at lew prices, orpduce
distress in the manufacturing districts ? The coun now
approached a state bordering on despair. He conjured their
lordships to do now what the country expected they should
do, that was to inquire into the cause of the distress.—
Their lordships could not continue long as a body, if
Some remedy were not applied. This step would be more;
beneficial to themselves and to the country than legal in-'
cluing'', which were proposed merely for the purpose of
diverting their minds from the distress of the country
the latter should be attended to before the former, He

inadequate
extricate the country from misery. He (Lord S.) would
propose en amendment to the address, and if it should not
succeed, he would move for a committee of the whole
house to enquire into the state of the nation. He would
not include the foreign relations, because, though he ad-
mired dumb in them, there wore some parts wl.ich he dis-
approved of ; and he would rather limit the enquiry in
order to gain more supporters. Much of the misery he
attributed to a change in the currency ; it was the prin-
cipal cause of all our misery ; it increased the amount of
our taxes higher than they were during the war. The
noble earl, in conclusion, observed that if tLey should re-
foe his motion, it would afford a strong argument in fa-
your of parliamentary reform. Hia lordship then read
his amendment as follows : "'That this house sees with
the deepest sorrow and anxiety the severe distress which
prevails in the country, and will immediately proceed to
examine its causes with a view to a remedy.
Ibis amendment was seconded, and

The Loss 01*st:suss then read it aluud, and put the question
upon. the original motion.
Lord GODERICH said that, although it was his inten-
tion to support the original address proposed by the noble
duke, and to oppose the amendment of the noble earl on
his left, he assured that noble lord that, amongst the
many considerations which induced him to take that
course, could not be reckoned any insensibility to the dia-
tress which he knew and felt to prevail to a great extant,
in the country, and which it was clearly the duty of that
home to. study every practicable means to redress but
feeling, u he did, that if he acquiesced in the an:end-
meat proposed by the noble lord, he sh • Jld be lead-
ing himself to that which he wu conscious was a delu-
sion, be, therefore, felt it a duty to oppose it. Before,
however, he proceeded to make any remarks upon that
part of the subject to which the noble earl had so empha-
tically called the attention of their lordships, he should
beg permission to advert to some other matters mendoned
in his asrOesty's speech because, although he felt. )9T.

ha so important a consideration as the condition Of The
country, as it was represented to be in circumstances
of unexampled distress, he could not think they would
be justified in neglecting the consideration of all other great
questions in which the public interest were also involved,
and he felt himself compelled to dissent from the doctrine
of the noble earl with respect to one part of our domestic ,
concerns, which he had treated as a question of compa-
rative insignificance;--namely, that which related to
the amelioration of the mode of administering justice.
He thought it would be one of the greatest misfortunes
which could befal the country if, because the people were
suffering under distress, they were to shut the it eyes wil-
fully, and on principle, to all other questions in which
they were called upon to act, not only upon the necessity
of the moment, but for the benefit of the latest posterity.
He hoped also, that those considerations which were not
immediately connected with the internal condition of the
country would not be viewed by their lordships in so
immaterial a light as they seemed to be_by the noble
earl—namely, the foreign relations of the country. On.
that subject his majesty stated, in his speech, that he
viewed with satisfaction the termination of the war be-
tween Russia and the Ottoman Porte. tithe words" view
with satisfaction" related solely to the fact of that war being
terminated, and of the east of Europe not being involved
In a war of which no person could foresee the end, he
entirely concurred in the sentiment; but if they were
meant to imply that the terms and conditions upon
which the war was terminated were to be taken as
satisfactory, he could not concur in the expression of
such feeling. He presumed that the -first sense which
he had assigned to the words was that in which they were
used in the speech. With respect to the termination of
that war, it was one which he bad all along anticipated.
He could not conceive that any man, who had looked at
the course of events connected with the history of Tur-
key, ea regarded its connection with other European
States, could possibly fail to see, that for the last 130
years, the power of the Turk had been going down
eves, day, while the capacity of other powers for con-
tending succes4fully against it had been rapidly en
the increase. In fact, the nature of his Government
Ind tha principles of his faith rendered it impossible for
him to stand stock still with the unreclaimed pre-
judices of ignorant fanaticism, while all the other.
States, •whose fears he had excited or whose cupidity be
bad inflamed, were making progress in those arts, • ,
diligent application of which could alone have mails;
Mined him in his former strength and ascendancy.
No one could fail to observe that there was no war for the
last 130 years out of which he had not come shorn of.
portion of his previous vigour ; and he (Lord Goderic4
had long been of opinicin that nothing could have saved
that Prince 'from tl.e consequences of his unlucky war
with Roasts but that which, for his own part, he should
never have counselled, namely, coalition with the other
powers of Europe. He knew that great pains had bees
taken to propagate a contrary opinion in this country.
He believed that such opinions were held in very impor
' taut quarters, and he knew that they had been very
widely diffused. It had been said that the Porte was
raising many thousand Asiatic troops, to be transported
from one continent to the other and further, that the
Sultan was to dedicate a standard to Mehemet,
and other wonderful things were promised from the
inspirations of enthusiastic ardour; but none of these
.300,000 troops were brought over, because they were
meplayed in an unsuccessful attempt to repel a bee*
attack upon an opposite frontier. As to the Sultan,•
wbeee'virtues and high qualities had been so much ex.:
tolled, be (Lord GoderiCh) bad never been able to die-
.

• • •


_ atT
• '

_ the and. be , posed
quarrel with the doctrine of laying down a monarchy :.s
the principle upon which the government of Greece ou'ut
to be regulated. He, did not enter into the question
as to the basin upon which that government was to he
regulated as regarded the subject of interference; but
it appeared to him that a government of that kind 2...1
more likely to be stable, intelligible, and definite, than it
it were left to the winds and waves to form a govern-
ment, which might tend to foment internal distaibuece,
and to create jealousies and dissensions throughout Eu-
rope, which would render its stability doubtful and un-
certain under any other arrangement.L lle should i,pg
to trouble their lordships with one word on the subject of
Portugal, in which he bad always felt a deep interest,
together with a strong conviction of the serious difficul-
ties which attended the solution of the question. Ile felt.
that the government had not an easx. task to discharge in
endeavouring to bring that question to a satisfactory issue.
That it was not yet brought to such an issue his majesty's
speech announced. It was not very obvious, from the
terms of the speech, what specific settlement was con-
templated. If he might venture a conjecture, he should
presume that the result would be, that Don Migu..l
would shortly be recognised. He was not prepared to
say that he should object to O.:: fact of such recognition.
Circumstance* might render it impossible for this coun-
try to do otherwise than recognise him. He, therefore,
wished to be understood as offering no opinion at pre-
Isent upon that part of the question; but he hoped that,
if this country should recognise Don Miguel, it would
le.* act of England, by England herself; that the
_mre should originate with this kingdom, indepen-
deft of the mediation of, and without reference to, any
odor power of Europe ; that it should be her own single
act, on which she might found a future claim to the gra-
titude of Portugal, for what he would call so disin-
terested an act. He hoped also that, if we recognised
Don Miguel eign of Portugal, we should net con-
- • ..,...
unlimited meet whi 114%-bes4smie.

cuted for their attachment to their country and its con-
stitution to fall victims to a tyranny which, on the con-
trary, he hoped, would be mitigated by the intervention
el British counsels. He could not but eutertaitt a san-
guine hope that the conduct of the existing g•overnine.lt
of Portugal towards the unhappy victims cf oppression
and illegal outrage would be mitigated by the nii:d, yet .
firm, interposition of British counsels. (Hear, hear,
from Lord Holland.) He, as well as every noble lord aho
bpard him, could not but join in the fervent wish that the
ease of those unfortunate men should be strongly recom-
mended to the consideration of their own government ;
and that they should not, under the forms of law, be
mbjected to arbitrary punishment and death, or driven
from their native country into perpetual exile—not
for their crimes, but for their virtues. (Hear, hear.)
If he could be permitted to be a competent judge on the
subject, he was induced to infer, from the general view
given by tho noble earl who last spoke, the two great ob-
.octs which that noble earl proposed to himself to effect
were, first, to induce his majesty's ministers to get rid of
*at pestilent heresy, as it had been called, free tilde ;
and, secondly, to retrace its steps in respect to the cur-
rency, or re-model, at least, the moneyed system of the
country. Take, for example, the subject of the 1% ooh
trade, and the alterations which had been made in the
duties on the export of our wool, and the import of foreign
wool, and he would not hesitate to pledge himself that the
greater part of all that had yet been urged on this subject
by the opponents of free trade, in this instance, c..asisted
of violent invective against the measure generally, and
an assault on the heartlessness and enmity of ministers,
who were described as a sot of demons—(:lear), for let!ilw
in, contrary to the wisdom of our ancesto:s, an iuunea-
tion of foreign wool on the British growers. Now A hat
was the fact with respect to this boastrd a isdom of ear
ancestors, and our culpable departure font it ?—Wl.y,
that so far from its being a part of the policy of our v.-i c
ancestors to shut out, by heavy duties, foreign wocl fion
coming into competition with our own growth of wool, the
heavy duties on it were resorted to as a measure of le-
tonne by this country, contrary to the wisdom of our an-
Motors, only in the year 1819. The wisdom of our an-
.Metors, in fact, ran in a contrary way; and before noble
.lords proceeded to censure measures vaguely, it would be
only fair that, as a preliminary in argument, they should
:start by calling things by their.right names, and lot go on
thus blundering ' themselves, and attempting to mislead
persons not on their guard against arguments improperly
drawn from falsely-assumed facts. The second diviyian
of the noble earl's speech proceeded on a fact, than which
nose wormers generally assumed; namely that the am:a-
nuses adopted relative to the currency, some years sir.ce,
bed produced the disastrous effect of Increasing the taxa-
tion of the count, y, and this in the same proportion as it
bad withdrawn a part of the then existing currency from
circulation. Assuming this as a principle, then, taxation
should be increased in its effect somewhere in the propor-
tion of 30 per cent. to sustain the argument of those op-
posed to the reformation of the currency in 1819., But
tens this found really to be the fact ? In the year .181.5,
Jot after the peace, this country was subjected to taxation
ID the enormous amount of 80,000,0001. to which, in the
present day, .56,000,0001. would be just CqUitralent, at a
reduction of 30 per cent. Now the amount ,a taxation
might be taken at 56,000,0001, which was a reduction
of 30 per cent. on taxation, since that period;
.or in
the direct proportiop of the reduction of the currency.
Re mot deplore the practiccof imputing the mere' em-
ber:lament felt in Agriculture 10 man i . tio to
teal itith Which it had lit* tto Alp... Thin.,. only
pd
./staff lb aggravate thew* ...Milk depiptiil . Y.
• , th .: '.. c.nntre4o.l4l dn. A 4-.,: ''.
, : ; . , ...:.• I, '.‘ .e. '', i tOrrini; 1 04111 A. 40V 1. )et

• „' -',.-::-.'1.74z,-;- .
Alia.4.otie
t
. - . --..,..--tr,,- ....e •
-
. •:,. - ..1. 1/4.. •
cover any thing in his character but the vi;our—if it
• .-. • r 1, ``reckless.
- , , might be so termed—of a barbarian, uttterly reckless
.. A
of human life where there was any important object
- „,, \AJ '
• .--1,..., r•-•:-.).-
t -
,_•,___,./t) ___ •.1. -
-_-,---- : ''1.,..; . '-'--- - dIMS
---P' • ./-_•" . to be attainod, and - who nia4e nothing of putting to
, death 8,000 or 10,000 men whe:e any such end was
to be accomplished. He (Lord Goderich) knew that
unconditional submission would be the result of tho
~- _
Prni \'' absurd struggle when it came to the point. He
, ilti believed that, in the commencement, great pains had been
lynx u2,4.0.v.
.00) atoxiasara
mayor! taken to delude the Sultan. It was truo the individual
so/lEOm r liS . ,
. who practised those artifices was afterwards disclaimed by
his government ; but be bad already done the mischief.
. . ' He had said, "do not listen to England, or to France, or
...........,, ..... .
to Russia ; but stand firm, and you will be sure of a suc-
FRIDAY EVENINCI, FEB. 5, 1830. PRICE 71). cessful issue of the struggle." The Suit= was thus,on-
fortunately, urged on to his own destruction. He said •
unfortunately, because, although he was no lover of the
:minded by moving an ad- hake' not if any complaints would be made to that house. Turk, and had no respect for the principles of his govern-
as, as usual, an echo of the Hlot
could not say if any petitions were sent in, whether meat, nor set any high value upon his political attach-
or he (Lord S.) would move for an enquiry. It was meet to this country, yet he did not like to see him
led
utterly crushed- from amongst the nations of E4ropc. He well known that the petitions of the people were
also dressed in a military tted with neglect by parliament It was often said was not desirous of seeing measures taken by this country
the address, concurred in the such petitions had been got up: he (Lord S.) would which should drive him precipitately to his fete, rind
y the noble mover, particu- wish to see any person try in this country to get up pi,. leave open territories so valuable, to excite the cupidity
...:. -:
iced respecting our foreign thieve, praying to continue the present distress. If no of any power who might wish to possess them. With -
arkey,- though the war with petitions he sent in, it was from -a general want of confi- regard to the question of Greece, he was happy to hear
act this country, still it was dwell parliament, founded on the materials that par- that it was likely tube adjpated in conformity to thereg :-
ith disastrous rewrite to our ' - was composed of. When Lord-Liverpool in 118k7 • :of london of WOE He beliewskaloe -,s -4P''''' ":ik -: .
fed lattlefied that It p''`,• . - .. , table to take apicalturatfrPtaraii thole &aptly-4==in cf ' --------
rith regard to Portugal, his he was. , ... ,as he ought to be, by that bore:: littitylateidiaakile ditivot ' tocol
no doubt the right to the their . .w,, pe did not now adopt some measure to relieve Of May 1829: if gave, io his opinion, a just extension of
elder branch of the home that ill *AM, they would find themselves inadequate to territory to thoGreelui, and. be did not feel disposed Li •
_ . _