Star.
London, England, 1823-03-18 00:00:00

pression, stated by hilt as a motive for the People
of England detirj2g a Reform, and as driving, them
When to desperation. a cause was supported by such
exaggeration, it was a good reason for doubting the
validity of the arguments by which it was supported:
Will the Hon. Gentleman say, that in 1663, the pre-
sent circumstances of Barhadoes could have been
foreseen ? Could it then be known that its geogra-
phical situation would make it be chosen as the head-
quarters of all the forces stationed in those Islands?
The Gentlemen opposite contended that every Island
ought to support itself : but they could not at the'
same time assert that Barbadoes should pay expenses
incurred for the general benefit. The Hon. Gentle-
man concluded, by contending, that the sum stated
in the Ordnance Estimates, was intended to cover ex-
penses not .provided for by the Act of Assembly.
Mr. CI{EEVEY said a few words in reply, when
the question was put, and the House divided.
For Mr. Creevey's Resolution - - 56
Against it - . - - 80
—24

Majority
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
Mr. R. WARD, in moving the Ordnance Esti-
mates, observed that there was a diminution of ex-
penditure in every item except °Re, in which there
was an increase of 7761. beyond the sum voted last
year. He should confine himself at present to stating
the several items, with the amount of eiminution. In
the Ordinaries the sum was 460,3341. being 13,1021.
less than the sum voted last year. The Extraordi—
naries were 269,4644 being 23,279/. less than those
of last year. Under the head of Unprovided, there
was a small increase of 7761. Under the head of Su-
perannuated Military, the sum was 318,152/. being
1590/. less than last year; under that of Superan-
nuated Civil, the sum was 50,0741. being 14781. less
than last year. For Ireland, the sum was 90,3131.
being 63161. less than the sum voted last year. The
whole sum required was 1,199,0001. being 45,0001.
less than the sum required last year. From this sum
there wet e to be deducted 38,0001. small savings upon
various items of the Extraordinaries for 1820 and
1821, and 91,0001. for the presumed sale of old stores,
land, &c. making a total sum of 129,0001. being
85,0001. more than the credit for last year; and the
sum to be voted this year wasstherefore 130,0001. less
than the total of last ye.u•.
Sum r.,:quired 1823 1522 Difference
£1,199,000 1,244,000 £45,000 le.ss

DEM:CT
Small savings 4'53,000
Old .itures, &c. 91,000

£129,000

44,000 85,000 more credits

To be voted .€1,070,000 £1,200,000 £130,000 less
On the first resolution, that £48,027 should be
granted for the expense of the establishments of the
Tower and in Pall-mall,
Mr. HUME declared that a reduction of four per
cent. upon the whole cost of the Ordnance Depart-
ment was not such a reduction as the country had a
right to expect. The true amount of reduction was
no mole than four per cent. upon the whole costs.
The resolution was agreed to.
On the vote for the establishments for the Manu-
facture of Gunpowder at Waltham Abbey and Faver-
sham, the Royal Laboratory, &c.
Mr. HUNIE objected to the unnecessary expense of
the establishments at Waltham Abbey and Faver-
sham, which had cost the country £150,000 in the
last ten years, and where little or no gunpowder had
been manufactured. The inspector of gunpowder
had been appointed since the peace, and lived at Fa-
versham, where no gunpowder whatever was made.
It was only necessary to state as a proof that this office
was perfectly useless, that Captain Chapman, the
predecessor of the present Inspector, was Military
Secretary to the Master of the Ordnance, and held
other offices at the time of his appointment.
Mr.WA RD' said, it was perfectly true that the ma-
nufacture of gunpowder was no longer carried on at
Faversham, but that establishment was continued be-
cause there were facilities at Faversham, such as
buildings, store-houses, saltpetre-kitchens, &c. which
there were not at Waltham Abbey. It was true that
Captain Chapman was Military Secretary to the Mas-
ter of the Ordnance at the time of his appointment;'
but he retained that situation only for a short time,
in consequence of the impossibility of discharging its
duties. The reason why the Inspector lived at Fa-
versham was, that there was a house at that estab-
lishment, and not at Waltham Abbey. With regard
to the Laboratory, lie thought the House would not
object to the trifling expense of that establishment,
while there was a prospect of accomplishing one of
the most ingenious projects which his Hon. Friend
behind him (Sir William Congreve) bad conceived,
that of regenerating damaged gunpowder, in all cases
in which it had not come into contact with sea-water.

Mr. HUME considered the expense as much too
great, and that the Officers of the establishment need
not have such splendid residences.
The vote was then agreed to, as was £8,585 for
salaries and increased salaries and allowances for per-
sons employed in the Civil Establishments of the
Ordnance of the first class.