Star.
London, England, 1805-07-04 00:00:00

LORD MELVILLE.

Mr. WHITBREAD moved the Order of the Day;
for the fecund reading of the Bill, for indemnifying
all perfons from Criminal Profecutions,in confecinence
of any anfwers they might give in their evidence on
the Impeachment of Lord Melville, provided they
anfwered fairly and truly.
Mr. ALEXANDER wiffied to know whether,
when by this Biil they thould be forced to make con-
feffions any other advantage would be taken of tholec
on fe don s ?
Mr. WHITBREAD replied, that this Bill would
not operate to force people to make confeffions, but
to proted from criminal profecutions thole who thould
expofe themfelves in confequence of fuch confeffions ;
as it was neceffary that this Bill thould p4fx expedi-
tioufly, he hoped the Honour4le Gentlethan would
pnitprne his übjetlions till to-Morrow on the third
reading.
IThe Bill was then read a fecond time, committed,
and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.

KARL 41. vincintr.

Admiral ?4ARKHAM faid, that in ccnfequence
of what had been Rated the other night by an Hon.
Gentleman, as to the nature of his chafges againfl ihc
Earl of St. VIPCIOt; them *cm many papers which be

ikon have nceaCon to retort to, and he would move
for them now, in order to prevent delay next Sel•
lion. He moved tho efore that there be Ltid before
the Hnufe—
Copiet of all orders from the Admiralty to •the Navy Board,
refpesiting the repair of Slips from the sth of Odober, atm, tothe
sth of April, ttlos —Ordered.
Alfo, Copies of all diredlions relative to the Working Ship-
wrights trove the sth March, 180 i, to the sth of April,
Ordered.

Alfo, Copies of the Accounts of the repair of the Calypfo awl
•
another thip, between .1801 and 1803.

Mr. W. DICKINSON Paid, he did not rife to op-
pole.the motion ; but only to thew how much the
time of the Clerks of the Navy Board was detri-,
molted by the very voluminous papers continually
moved for. lie then read feveral extracts from let-
ters from the Commiffioners of the Navy Board to
the Admiralty, complaining of the g; eat injury and
impediment the Winds of the Navy Board (Whined
in its progrefs, on account of the papers moved for,
to fo vall an extent.
Admiral MARKHAM obferved, that the ac-
counts to which the letter alluded, were to be found
in the Navy Office, without producing the trouble
which the letter had Rated, that is, if the accounts
in the Navy Office were regularly kept. Thole ac-
counts were,in what was called in the office phrafe,the
drromfday book. When he was in the Admiralty,
an account was annually communicated of the origi-
nal price of each (hip purchafed, anJ the expense of
every (hip repaired. If, notwithilanding this prac-
tice, which was and ought to be regular, the Navy
Board was fo lax in the performance of its duty, as
not to be able to produce the accounts for which Eg
applied, that Boni deferved reprehention. If the
Navy Board carried to account the Ratements rep•
larly tranfmitted to them from the fubordinate de-
partments, the accounts he required could; be eafily
obtained ; and therefore if any difficulty arufe, it.
was attributable to the negleft of thole only from
whom the complaint pro:eeded, that was contained
in the letter which the Houle had jolt heard.
Mr. JEFFERY profefted to have no objection to
the production of the papers moved for by the Ho-
nourable Admiral, at the fame time he begged to fay,
that the letter which the Houfe had heard, juftified
an objaflion to chore motions. From that letter it
appeared, that from the mode proceeding reforted
to by the Honourable Admiral, his motions could
not be complied with without creating extraordinary
perplexity and trouble in the offices, and from what
lie knew of the Wines of the Navy Board, he was
enabled to fay, that it would be impoilible, in confe-
quence of the multiplicity of their engagements, to
produce the accounts de fired by the Honourable Ad-
miral, without withdrawing much of their attention
from their proper employment, and expending much
of their time. This the Honourable Gentleman de-
clared, that he regretted the more, bccaufe not more
than two or three of the Honourable Admiral's mo-
tior.s were at all relevant to the fubjeds to which his
charges againft. Lord St. Vincent referred, and of,
courfe unniceffaty to the object profeffedly in view.
The Honourable Gentleman contralled the trouble
complained of by the Navy Board in this intlance,
and he had no doubt with juflice, with that which at-
tended the motions he had brought forward, as all
the accounts he moved for were ready to be laid be-
fore the Houfe in lets than ten days after the orders
for their production were Tnade. Notwithftanding
thefe remarks, the Honourable Gentleman repeated
that he did not mean to oppofe the motion before the
Houfe. The Honourable Admiral might move for
as many accounts as he pleated. He fhould not op-
pole him ; but he begged the Honourable Admiral
and his friends to anderfland that he did not mean
to confine his chatges againft Lord St. Vincent mere-
ly to the building and repairing of (hips. No ; there
were other ferious prints upon which he intended to
accufe that Noble Lord. He propofed to extend his
charges to the fyfiem of terror Ivhich during the
whole period of his adminiftration that Noble Lord
had aged upon throughout the feveral departMents
fubjed to his officiar authority.
The SPEAKER fuggefted that the Honourable
Member was travelling into topics which, from the
nature of the motion before the Houfe, were not na-
turally to be expeded.
Mr. JEFFERY laid, that he was only proceeding
to explain, as had been required of him, on a former
evening, the purport and extent of the charges it was
his intention to bi i og forward againft Lord St. Vincent.
Mr.TIERNEY allured the Hon. Gentleman, that
from the reply which he had given on a former eve-
ning, he had ro difpofition to a(k him any farther
queflions. Nor fhould he hare defired any informa-
tion from the Hon. Gentleman, if he could have ap-
prehended that he would have conveyed his informa-
tion in fuch !will language. The motive which
prompted the Hon. Gentlem in to bring this Winds
before the Houfe he could not pretend to divine, nor
(Mould he attempt to remark upon. But, as to the
difficulty of complying with the motions the Houfe
had heard, he mutt take leave to fay, that he was
much more difpofed to rely on the official knowledge
of his Hon. Friend from whom thole motions pro.
cecdcd, than upon the information of the Hon. Gen-
tleman, who could not be fuppofed to have the fame
degree of acquaintance with the bufinels of the Navy
Office. It was, however, matter Of furprife that fuch
an objection as the Houfe had heard, ft om the letter
read by the Hon. Gentleman on the other fide, fhould
be offered againft the production of thefe papers. If
the preparatio:i of theft papers did really produce
trouble, what did that fignify compared to the im
portance of the object for which they were required.
The queflion for the confideration of the Houk was,
not whether the making out of thee accounts would
be productive of official trouble, but whether they
were necetrary to the inveftigation of thofe c:.arges
againft Lord St. Vincent, which the Hon. Gentleman
had announced his intention of bringing forward ? if
any extraordinary trouble arofe as to thefe accounts,
it was afcribable to the Hon. Gentleman and his
friends on the other fide, who originated this inquiry.
Againfl fuch inquiry, or rather again& the charges
which they who propofed it brought forward, the do-
cuments moved for by his Hon. Friend were necef-
Cary, and therefore he trufled the Houfe would not
attend to loch grounds cf objection as had been men-
tioned by the Hon. Gentleman on the other fide. As
to what the Hon. Gentleman had laid about the ob-
jed of his charges, he rather underaosad, not long
fume, from thofe who inquired of the Hon. Gentleman
that his only object was*to make a Ratentent. Why
then did he 401 make that ftatement ? Who preve.uted

,

hint?—Certainly none of the friends of Lord
cent attempted to ufr any influence with hint,
as to the partial flatement which the Hon.GentlemA
feemed inclined to make, if be had not been ban,.
rapted, he was (Iron,* inclined to think the
Gentleman would find it very difficult to peodgc,
any thing fuflicient to ftalain the general charge le
had made as to the " reign of terror introduced isti,
the Navy, by Lord St. Vincent. That thete
nothing exceptionable in the condi:ft of that Noble
rerfon, he did not mean to Wren. However, when
the queflion lhould be before the Houle—
Mr. JEFFERY role to order.—He thought tie
Right Hon. Gentleman was wandering trots ti;,
queflion before the Houle, much farther thanise
• •
when th'e• Right Hon. Gentleman thought proper rc,
interrupt him. With telpeet to the reafons which
duced him to poßpone the difcuffion of the charge,
he had to prefer againll Lord St. Vincent, be Becht ;
that the pollponement to the next (-taint!, did nr:
proceed from the interpnfiiinn of any Miniiiet,
limply from tins confideration, that the Houk did.wt
appear difpored to enter into the difcialion at prek2p,
The SPEAKER interrupted the Honourable
_ _ .

Gentleman by obtervings that the ditcuflion which
he was purfuing, had been difordetly for fume time,
but that the Hon. Gentleman had let the example.
Mr. TIERNEY obkrved, that his only with „t
preterit was, to imprefs upon the Houfe, that as tt.e
only oblation Rated to the produftion of thole pa.
ners was that they were troublefome in preparatio;„
or voluminous in' quantity, that could not beattended
to where the charges again(' the Noble Lard \*.:vt
ferious, for whole vindication they were required.
The SECRETARY at WAR called Mr. Titint,
to order, conceiving his obfervations irregular, as
one appeared difpoTed to refill the motions.
Mr. TIERNEY confidered the interruption rat er
irregular, and what could have prompted the ItigiA
Honourable Gentleman to interpole, what mill
have fo warmed the milk of his difpofition, he could
' not well conceive. It was tot competent to the
Right Honourable Gentleman to toppoie that tha'a
motions would not be objeCted to, although, ru
doubt, where the great force of his authority
ed, there could be no dread of refillance (a /augG,'.
But yet he apprehended that where no op.potaim
was expeaed, any Member was at liberty to deli r&
his fentiments until the queftion was put.
The SPEAKER obterveds that whether the pa.
pets fhould be granted mita depend upon the vote of
the Houfe.

Admiral MARKHAM replied to the Itatement of
Mr. Jeffery, by afferting that 411 the papers he had
moved for were relevant and neceffary, for the full
underdanding pf the points to which the Honourable
Gentleman had announced his intention of direEt:ng
his aLcullition.

The feveral motions of the Hon. Admiral were,
after a few words from the Secretary at War, agrcd
to without a dilleating voice.

SOUTIIERtiHit.' FISHERY.
Mr. DOSE moved the order of the day for taking
into further confederation the report on the Southern
Whale Filhery Bill ; which being read, he laid there
was a claufe propofed to be added, to which he un-
derftood there were many weighty °Nations, Is it
related to the revenue, and was of the utmoft
portance. He propofed, therefore, to poftpooe tip
further confederation till to-morrow.
Mr. BARHAM objedled to this delay. He laid,
he hid diced the Right Hon. Gectlemin who fpoke
laft, when this buftnefs was to be peremptorily
brought on, and he told him to-day. Many Gen-
tlemen had therefore come down at very conficlor
able inconvenience in order to attend it, and them
was at prefent a fuller attendance than could be ex•
peeled again during the faSon. He had come on
purpofe himfelf, and it would be very inconvenient
to him to attend to-morrow. He hoped, therefore,
the Houle would proceed.
Mr. S. BOURNE fetid. that in additiop to the
reafons given by Mr. Role, there was one he thought
would weigh with the Houle. As this was a fubjee
which very materially concerned the revenue, the
abfence of his Right Hon. friend, the Chancellor of
th.Excherier_, would, r,e hoped, induce tiie Huttfe
to agree to goftporie it till to-morrow.
Mr. CALCRAFT feid, the fubjea had been ray
fully 'argued in former ftages of the Bill, and he faw
no •teafon why the Chancellor of the Exchequer
fhould ii.,cetrarily he prefent now ; however, if the
Right Hon. Gentleman was ill, he would not op-
pole the delay.
Mr. W. SMITH Paid, he fhould be furry to profs
a qnz.flic n under fuch circumltances ; but he law no
reafon why the Right Hon. Gentleman's preCente
was necelfary. •
Mr. C. PRICE thought the LH of the higlieft
importance, and that it was only a cqmplinaent doe
to Mr. Pitt tie deter it. •
Lerd H. PETTY expreFed himfelf decidedly
againft delay.
Mr. HUSISISSON allured the Houle that the
caufe which prevented the Chancellor of the EP
chequer from attending the day beforf yetterday ftIU
exilled.
Mr. GILES raid, the only quefiion was, that fief
(hips, belonging to foreigners, thall be received with•
out paying alien duties, and it was ridiculous to flip-
, pole the Houfe could determine loch a point without
the prefence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. ROSE laid,, they had lately heard talk of
jobs in that Houfe ; this claufe would, he believed;
turnout a job to deprive the revenue of 2 r,oool. .rnd
upwarts, arc] it would give a preference to fo; e
rr
(hips, built at lets expence. viaualled at refs expcir,a,
and fubjea to no infuranee, over thole of &Or met'
country.
§ir W. YOUNG thought the bill of the higheß in•
portance, and that it fhould be poliponed in order
have the benefit of the great talents of the Right
Hon. Gentleman now abfent.
Mr. WINDHAM Paid, that In near as they were
to the chile of the Saws, a full attendance was
lAA defirable thing, in all matters of importance
As he did not thin!: there would be a fuller attends
ante than the prefent, if there was no other objeCtios
than the abfence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,
he law no reafon for deferring it.
Mr. ALEXANDER laid a few words in favour o.
poltponetnect ; when the queftion being called for, s
divilion took place—Ayes 38—Noes a9—Majority:9
The further confederation was of courfe poftponcJ
till to•morrow. The other orders of th; day we'
poftponed.—adjottrued.