Star.
London, England, 1805-06-12 00:00:00

bad by him been' applied to the Management of Scot.
land? Another novelty was the explanation he had
given to the. Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the
caufe of his drai%ing money from the Bank. With
refpea to the criminal proceeding recommended by a
LearnedGemlernan he could not agree to that amend-
ment. There was no precedent for it, and he mutt pro-
tell againil the Houle giving up its own dignity, by
banding over its power and its privileges to the Attor-
ney General. If ever there was a cafe in which that
Bottle ought to take a criminal up to the bar of the-
ether Hottfe of Parliament, it was that where a man
bad pecul,tted the public money, of which that Honfe
mull ever 'ue the guardian. The delay in thetrial of Hal.
tings was no arr,timent againft an impeachment, the
right of which he would never give up to any Attorney
General. But pat ticularly he would not give up this
accufing power to the prefent Attorney General, who
had already expreffed his opinion as to the innocence
of the N•ible Lord in quenion. The opinion of the
public ought to have its proper weight on this occa-
lion ; and the Houre fhould come to no Galati: pro.
needing, hit aft on the principles of cool and im-
partial jnitice.
Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE obferved that one
of the main queninns was.-46 Whether Lord Mel•
•ille had or had not been already fufficiently pu-
nilhed ?" The • punilhment of the Noble Lord has
been fevere, hut oat more than the indifcretion of the
Noble Lord called for. He voted for the Rcfolutions

becaufe tai. fettle of public duty overcame his attach-
ment, and he would add his gratitude to the Noble
Lord, for his.% cry long an,l very able fervices to the
Public. The other chief queftion was—" Whether
there was any new matter brought forward in the
Report of the Seidl Committee on this fubjea ?"
To him it appeared there was not; and he mug
add alfo, that the Speech of the Noble Vifcount
this day contained much matter of extenuation,
but none of aggravation of his original indifcre-
lion. The prefent cafe had been compared to that of
indiftment before a Grand Jury, but the two pro-
ceedings were not to be governed by the fame rules.
A Grand Jury are bound to find a bill, if the evi-
dence was plain, however excellent might be the cha,
raCter of the accufed, and whatever might be the
probable confequences. Not fo with the Houfe of
Commons,for they had a difcretionary power to guide
them under all the circumstances of a cafe, and
that led him to be of opinion that this impeachment
ought not to be voted. This he formed for the fol-
lowing reafons : That an impeachment is dilatory
and expenfive, of which that of Mr. Halting: was a
fpecimen ; not that it fhould put an end to impeach.
ments altogether, but as a reafon for being cautious
in affenting to it for any thing Ilion of abfnlute ne-
ceffity : That the Noble Vircount had been already
punifhed fufficiently by the Refolotions carried to the
Throne concerning him, and their confecotent pro-
mulgation :—That the Houfe of Common as the
Grand Inqueft of the Nation, were not to be bound
by the confideration of the patty, or of the accufa-
tion, without reference to other circumitances ; the
whole Rate of the country ought to be confidered,
and it molt not be forgotten that we were menaced
with an invaion. For all thefe reafons it did not ap-
pear to him difcreet for the Houfe, at prefent to pro.
teed further in this matter.
Mr. H. ADDINGTON role with evident emotion,
and Laid that his motive in offering himfelf to the
Houfe. was to execute a fhort but a very diftreffing
talk, by much the molt fo of any in his political life,
that of Rating the grounds on which he felt himfelf
bound to vote. It was diftrefling to him, becaufe he
could not be unmindful of the eminent public fer•
vices rendered to his country by the Noble Lord
whom he had the pain of feeing at the Bar; and Rill
more to, becank he could not diveß his mind of the
reeolleaion of the long courfe of friendfhip and
kindnefs which he had experienced from that No-
ble Lord, and which no recent circumftances could
poflibly obliterate. Molt of his ground had been
anticipated by his Right Honourable Friend be-
hind him, in an ample and able view that he had
taken of the fubjeCt, in whole featiments he en.
tirely concurred. lie (Mr. Bond,) had Rated the
difficulties in which the Houfe had involved itfelf by
the courfe of proceeding that it had adopted. All
thole inconveniences, Mr. A. thought, would have
been avoided, had the courfe been that fupported
by him and thole with whom he ailed. Had it been
the pleafure of the Houfe to have referred the whole
charges in the firfi inllar,ce to a Selea Committee,
what would have been the cafe ? In the firß place,
there would have been no pretence for refraining its
powers, as was never intended; and in the next, the
LorJs would have had no grounds for refuting their
content to Lord Melville's giving a free and unreferv-
ed evidence. The Houle mull neceffarily have had a
full and complete report, much time would have been
faved, and act iminal vote might have been paffed upon
the whole. The charge, too, of perfecution, made
by the Noble Lord, would thus have been precluded.
He had paid all poffible attention to the fpcechof the
Noble Lord from the bar, and to that of his Learned
Friend who had defended him; bet he was compelled
to declare that, perhaps for the firft time in his life,
he was unconvinced by either. In one point indeed, he
agreed with the Noble Lord, namely, that he had
never till 'hit day been heard either by himfelf or
iends. The queßion or its merits had not been dif-
cuffed on the Bth of April : it was not then whether
the two charges brought by an Honourable Gentle-
man oppofite to him were true (about which he for
one had never entertained a doubt), but whether that
was a proper time for coming to a refolution on the
guilt? He had always thought it premature, and he
thought In Rill—But could it gravely be contended,
that becaufe the Houfe had embarraffed itfelf by
its proceedings, all chance of attaining the purpofes
of jullice &mild be precluded?—Could it be argu •
ed, that if rew matter, and that of a molt aggra-
vating natio e, had come out on the Report of
the Sete& Committee, that no farther proceeding
leas to be inflituted ? For what purpofe was that
part of the fuhjeft referred to them ? If it was to re-
port upon it, forely it would be difgraceful to the
Houfe to fay, now we have got the Report we will
do nothing at all upon it. He law but one of thole
courfe: for the Houk to purfue. Either to continue
the civil procels, which, after the Report of the Com-
mittee, it mull be evident to all could lead to no ufe.
ful refult ; to proceed by information, as propofed
by the amendment, or by impeachment: He de-
cidedly preferred the middle court, : it was diewsoft
expeditious, the leaft expeufive, would give AO Inter-

' tumion to public !saner,' and would anfwer every
purpofe Slinulu the amendment fail, he
faw nn ahernative bd. to take the latter cootie, fa-
tisfied as he was that more molt Ll,,ne. The doble
Lord himfelf ought to have an opportunity of clear
ii Ig his chart der—tht dignity of the Houfe was at
(take. This declaration colt him (Mr. A.) a fevere
(boggle ; but between ; eifonal feelings •nd public
duty, he should be unworthy of a feat in that Houfe
it he (offered a crmperition.
Mr. ALEXANDER confidered the aliedged of
of Lord Melville to partake much more of the
charader of the aertawprehibiomr, than the sedum is fi,
mid therefore that it was at the difcretion of the
Houle to pronounce what degree of punifhment
fhould attach to fuch an offence. Previous to the
Ad of the 25th of the King, the practice with which
Lord Melville was charged, was not either by com-
mon or ftatute law, deemed a crime—by that ftatuto
even the pradice was merely prohibited, but no pe-
nalty was annexed to the continuance of it. It was
therefore with the Houfe to determine the penalty,
and under all the circumflanzes, he really thought
that a penalty diffidently revere had already been in-
'tided upon the Noble Lord.
Mr. W/LBERFORCE. propofed, that from the
latenefs of the hour, the debate ((mold be adjourned
till to-morrow, brit "go on ! go en r being the general
cry of the Houfe,
Mr. PYTCHES then rote- —He faid that Vircount
Melville would have done better if. inftead of affert-
ing his inncccnce, he had intimated to a friend that
the purpofe of his coming was to confefs that he had
' done wrong. On the contrary, he had (hewn no re-
morfe of confcience, but had obftinately faid, come
decision, come banifhment, come death and deftrue-
tion—(hers wrar Jo snub acetone' by letagbing,
toughing, amicaling for the qi4ies, we could not bear may
more of the Hoe. Member', fpecb.
The Hon. J. S. COCKS thought the conduit of
' Lord Melville of filch a nature that however he might
feel in feting a man of his rant placed in filch a fitu-
ation, he could not help voting for farther profegu-
lion. When he confidered all the circumftances of
this extraordinary cafe, he was furpnfed that any
doubt Arnold appear of the propriety of bringing the
Noble Lord to trial. In the country nothing was to
be heard in favour of the condo& of this delinquent,
bat fence he came to town. and this was the firft time
he appeared in this unhappy bufinefs, be had heard
of many arguments ufed with a view to ferve the
cattle of the Noble Lord. It was faid, that other
Treafurers of the Navy had made life of the public
balances remaining in their hands as well is Lord
Melville ; but it was to be recollated that the Legis-
lature recorded their opinion of the impropriety of
fuch condud by paling an Ad againft it, and at the
inflance too of the Noble Lord himfelf. The era.
ceedings on this occafion were called meafures of
party and perfecut:on. But as to the latter charge,
Gentlemen &mid bear in mind the difference be-
tween perfecution and profecution. The former is an
attempt to overwhelm a man by force and poiver—
the latter to bring a criminal to justice. Cifn'hith de-
fcription, be would elk any fair, candid min, Was the
courfe purfued refpating Lord Melville i With-ref-
pat to the imputation of party, he believed the Honk
would feel that if the members of that party, who ge-
nerally aced in oppofition to Minilters, were not to
vote againft a Minifter charged with, or convicted of
peculation, a corrupt Minifter would be tolerably fe-
cure of impunity. The imputation of party, bowever,
fhould not be exclufively applied to the Gentlemen
who cppofed Loro*Melville. In point of fa& it'ap-
peared to be much more applicable to thole who de-
fended bins, and who nsuft be naturally influenced by
feelings of party and private friendfhiP. The cry of
party, therefore, fhould not be 'aired on that fide of
the Houle. As to what was faid refpeding'popular
clamour, it was imooffible that fuch delioquebty as
that of Lord Melville ffiould not excite confiderable
clamour; bat the exiftance of that clamour furnithed
a ftrong reafon to thew that Lord Melville ought to
be brought to trial, in order to Laid.), the people that
Parliament was ready to do them jufilte, by punn-
ing the man who peculated their property.
Mr. CARTWRIGHT thought the object of pub-
lic justice, whether for the purpofe of example or pu-
nilhment, already attained with refped to Lord Mel-
ville, and therefore would oppofe ant further pro-
ceedings in this cafe.
Lord HENRY PETTY entered at large into the
whole cf the prefent cafe, and thought the defence
let up by the Noble Vifcount and by others for hies
very extraordinary. He contended that the mifccn-
dud of the Noble Vifenunt in the tranfadions referred
to in the Report. was apparently fuch as to render
a further enquiry, and that of the molt folemn na-
ture, abfolutely iodifpenfable. Nothing but hi-
peachment was fuitable to the magnitude of the of-
fence; and the dignity of the acculatiao. The fub-
fiance of the charge was, that the Public Money had
been employed to the purpofes of private Emolu-
ment, for the trial of which Impeachment had a pas.
liar and exclusive propriety, for by it the Commons
of England were the profecutors ; who fo fit to pro-
fecute an offence of miapplication of the public
money, as the Guardians of the public putfe?—*Phe
perfon accufed was a Par of the Realm; who to
fit to judge of the Charge as the Guardians of the
Honour of the Peerage, the Peers of the Realm ?
tie difagrced from the Honourable Member who
had fpoken-fume time.beftsre him (Mr. H. Brown)
as to the circumstances of this Country rettuiiing
that we Mould not entertain inquiries of this nature
at the prefent time, and particularly' that we fhould
now give up a pur,fuit of this kind on account of the
menace of invafion. Hethought the'Honnurable Mem-
ber hinifelf who made tile of that obrervation, would
be glad upon reflation to recall it ; for he mutt be
aware whafa triumph it would be to France to have
it pliblifhed in the Moniteur that Great Britain is fo
much alarmed at the Menace of a French invasion,
that it is obliged to forego the molt folemn forms of
the administration of justice againtt an high State de-
linquent, that was to fay, that from alarm and ap
prelienfion it was obliged to give up that cootie of
proceeding which diffinguiffied it from all the other
nations upon earth, and by which it was rendered fo
formidable to its enemy, from the energy ofits
people acting a conteiouthefs of petted protection to
their freedom, a principle to which the whole of our
greatnefa was owing, and the continuance of which
could alone fecure us againft the attacks (of 'which
the prefent was but the mere commencement) of the
great military power of France: Such welcome in.

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. .
telligenee to France as that a Scpatnr ihnuTtl vitas.
fwered fay that their menaces could make Great
Britain abandon her principles of juftice, Monte never
be conveyed. With regard to the influrree of the
erinion of the Public having an influerce ihe pro-
ceedings of the Houfe, he admitted it was not la
principle cf guidance to the Houfe ; bur he hoped it
was not an unreafcnable pleafure to reflett that the
filitiments of the Houle were in unifun with thole of
its Conflituenta. The people of England had eerta'nly
fhewn themfelves moll watchful, and eagerly inter-
tiled in the condita of their Reprefentatives on this
fabjea—they had teen with joy and exultation a
.great public delinquent detet9ed and expored in
the fief inftance, and he confidently trufted he
would be brought to a proper trial in the fecond,
and what had been fo aufpiciouily commenced would
not be dirgracefully concluded, and that their Re-
prefentatives would not now defert their duty. At
all events, his Hoflonrable Friend (Mr. Whitbread)
in bringing this fubjeEt forward had performed his
duty, and he was fare to derive from it perfeet diem
and honourable eonfideration with the public. He
Ihould indeed potters the fame which he deferved ;
but much as he honoured his Hon. Friend, and
-efteemed his high charafter, he could not *itb, on
fuck an occafion, to fee even his reputation feparated
and dillingtabed from that of the Houfe of Com-
mons. His Hon. Friend had perfeveringly and con.
Heady difchargesi his dory ; the Houfe had in a
certain degree alCo performed theirs, and which they
had now to finilh. In the hope that they would do
fo, be Ilionld fupport the original motion of his Hon.
Friend, as being the mof fuitable meafure that could
adopted, either with reference Co the charaller
and fitnation of the delinquent, the nature of the de-
linquency, to the dignity of the Houfe, and to the
attention the public had beftowed on, and the intereft
they had in it, as well asthe juftice which demanded
the folemnity of this profccution.
__The him's. of the ROLL: explained, as did alto
Mr. H.
Mr. WILUIERFORCE laid, the fubjed was of fo great and
Important a nature, that he thought it mug be the with of the
majority of the Houle to dileufs it at large--!a bed spy of ge v,
aaj. He then Laid, be only wilhed to remind the Houfe, that lo
deattnilances of the fame nature, it often happened, that two or
three !scrims were allowed to (peak, and in the end, the debate
was adjourned. He thereat, would move an adjournment
The CIIANCELLOIL of the EICIMILIIR having had Does eon.
verfation scrota the table with Mr. Wut , Mr. Fox, and
other', °Nerved there was no hope of being able to come to a
condi/Gun this night in the, eshauftcd Rate of the Chrofe; it
would be better to adjourn now than proceed any further at pre.
fent, upon which the Houk, by common content, at 'Three
o'Clock this Morning adjourned till this Afternoon.