Star.
London, England, 1807-01-22 00:00:00

advantageous to the nation ; all it wanted was to
hive it made known In make it acceptable. It had
been afferted that,this fyflem would be produttive of
a fudden inflow to the army, and that i.e had propa-
gated that principle; 'nothing could be more errone-
ous ; on the contrary, his conilant theme was, that
it• would encreafe-hy flow degrees, and prove, in
the end, the moll efficacious of any meafures ever yet
foggefted for the army. But it is charged with being
dilatory; be it In; he u ould give up !elf rather than the
meafure, and take his chance for its faccefs. The ope-
ration, however, of it was lefs flow than he anticipated;
t'ie meafure wanted but publicity to give it effee ; when
that would take place, which mull be the cafe when
the Penfioners, feattered all over the kingdom, once
begin to partake of the bounteous boon, it would
operate like magic to encourage the pl.tn, as they
would naturally praife it, as they enjoyed its benefits.
It was no argument to fay, that hecaufe a meafure
did .cot at fir ft fucceed, that therefore no hope was to
be entertained of its ultimate profperity. Had that
rear:ming been applied to the At my of Referve Bill, it
would have been abandoned at once, for from the id
o: July till the sth September, it procured but fix men,
though promited in fix months to raife 4.0h000 ! and
which in fad, after a trial of two years, produced no
more than 53,200 men. Now when Gentlemen, par-
tic ulary that Noble Lord, had failed.fo egregioufly in
his own favourite meat Ore, he thould not fir rattily
impute blame to others without at lead giving them
a fair trial ; and yet with all its failure, it was not the
meafure itfelf lo much as the immorality appertaining
and attached to it that he appeared then to blame,
and which ultimately removed that Adminiftration,
of which the Noble Lord was an effective and alive
Member. He blamed it for its unconilitutional prin.
cirles as coon he perceived its effects, and as foun as
re di:covered that inftead of men it railed money,
and produced a general fcale of penalties and for fei•
tures, to the enormous extent of 500,0031. It con-
tained feeds of its own deftruCtion ; but the Noble
Lord goes fometimes to refults, and then to details;
but neither in the one or the other was his favourite
fyllem to be fupported, whereas that now in agitation
was only to be taken in the detail, and if its progrefs
equalled its commencement, he not only Ihnald not
fear, but would be proud of the refult. In like man-
ner, when the Noble Lord talks of " Numbers," he
contended that this meafure had the advantage.—
The Infpetinr General's Office made a return which
proves its fuperiority to all others yet attempted,
and upon the accuracy of that Office he relied. By
their returns it does appear that the growing and
progreffive increafe is at the average of about z to 1,
added to which, the decreafe of defertion, which be.
yond any ether circumstance whatfoever tended to
ellablifh beyond a doubt its vall fuperiority to all
others. So much for the " failure" of the meafure.
The Noble Lord had complained, " that after a fer-
vice of a long or Rion duration, a court martial might
unhinge all his theory of juftice, or elle the foldier
might become independent of his officer, which mull
be defirudine of all difcipline." His anfwer to that
was, that the veteran who had ferved 14 or zt years
fhould not be at the caprice of his officer, neither
Mould he be left at his mercy to find a provifion for
his old days (al cry of Hear! Hear!) Every neceffso y
provilion was made againfl his mikonduel and vice
deriving any benefits from it, and he trufted that no
man would force a fever, or break down his own con-
flitution, to avail himfelf thereof. Should indite&
attempts be made in other relpetts to-gain by finifter
ends thefe purpofes, the Surgeon would take care to
prevent them, and hill more the Infpector General.
Upon the whole, he could take upon himfell to fay,
that the more he was called on, or any other Gentle-
man on the other fide, who demanded proof of the
efficacy of the meafure, the longer it lafted, the better
able he Mould he to give it. It would be gradually
improving, and the cxpences talked of were but a bug-
bear, when compared with the value of the rneafure.
Mr. PERCIVAL adverted to the fettlement of
Buenos gyre,, which he contended had been neglec-
ted. It made no difference whether the account of
the intended expedition reached this country in June
or July ; lint time and opportunity were afforded of
fending reinfOrcements thither much fooner than they
went. The reinforcements were delayed by the ne-
gociation ; for not until the eepeCied return of Lord
Lauderdale were any thought of. l'ae Honourable
and Learned Gentleman then proceeded to the inbjeCt
immediately before the Houfe, and by comparing the
Right otrable Gentleman's fyftem with that of
the late Adminittration, argued, that it was lets effi-
cient, and ht the event would be found much more
expenfive. Upon thole points he entered into a
contiderable (train of calculating theorems to eftablifh
Lis reafoning, paffiag a very high eulogium on what
he termed " Mr. Pitt's Bill." He then priceeded to
Thew that the fylirm was not fit produalive as had
been afferted,and.appealed to the papers on the table,
which, he cc mended, did not prove that fad. From
thence he proceeded to draw ionic extreme cafes, to
thew that the mealarre might be rendered in many
inflancea abot tive by the vice and impofi:ions of de.
tigning and artful perfons, and concluded with re-
marking, though he th sold not oppofe the queflion,
he would take another opportunity of entering more
at large into the fobjeCt.
Lord HOWICK lamented that, at that late hour,
he was called upon to offer any fentiments of his to
the Houfe on the fubjen under difeuftion. Bat the
Noble Lord and the Learned Gentieman charged
Milliners with not fending a fpeedy (apply to BACCOS
Ayres, and that tilde fupplies were not fent in ten
days after the writ al of the firft intelligence of the
expedition. The Noble Lord was greatly millaken;
if tupplies had been fent out, where were they to
have reached the expedi.i' n ? There was no cci tainty
of finding them, and Minifters were nut in puill dion
previonfly of any intention that fuel' an expedition
would have peen put in execution ; and it little be
came thole to accure Adminittration of not fending
(applies to another hernilphere in ten days, when they
could nut furnith an expedition only acrofs the Chan-
nel in as many laugh generally throughout
the H6ufe.)—Thofe very Gentlemen who, thouill in
polfetliun of Count Stahremberg's note refpeCling the
then coalition, and the necetlity of fiipporting it, yet
could not be brnnehr to prepa: e far the p6rpoie until
the December tonna ing, a (pace altugetntr of nearly
to months. He begged the Houle to conoa:
that concha& with the conduCl Of his Majefty's pre
tent Miniticrs in the matter of Buenos Ayres.—
The tirft intelligence they had of the capture of that
kith Trieja WM. OH the 13th Stptembtr, aid en the

9rh. of bltober fupplies were rent there ennfilling of
three regiments, under convoy of a (hip of the lint. He
certainly would not conceal the fad that forte little
delay had occurred to the reinforcement by the in-
tervention of a temporary circomfiance, bat that,
neverthelefs, the fupplies were fent with alt•reafonable
and pollible expedition. The Noble Lord next
proceeded to defend Mr. Windham's (ellen) of railing
men for the army ; in doing which, he drew fevcrel
contrails between thole fy(tems by which men
were railed fince the year xlloo and that now under
difeutTion, and clearly demonllrated that. this was
the molt efficacious and the bell: he recapitulated
the ftveral ill effefts of the Additional Force Bill
and of the Referee ; and here he took occafion to
Rate, that when the meafute was fir 9 propefed by
his Right Hon. Friend, and even down to the prefent
moment, that Gentleman never undertook for it that
it fhnuld raife a number of men on the fudden : on
the contrary,his conllant theme was, that it would be
flow in its progrels, but cet tain in its efficacy, and that
the objeas of it were to put the recruiting on- its own
original footing, and that as the mcalure advanced,
its attendant benefits would advance and Boer-ale
with it. The Learned Gentleman oppofite to him
might complain of inaccuracy in the papers on the
table, but if he would take the trouble of examining
them a little more accurately, he would find that the
excels, in point ol numbers, gained from OEtober 1806
to Jan. 1807, by this meafure, over that of the•much
favoured meafure of that Learned Gentleman and his
friends, it would be found to amount to no lets than
947 men ; and if he compared it with the number
railed the year before that within the like period, he
would alfo find the encreafe to be Hill much more.
The principal objell of the meafure, he was con-
vinced, would be accomplifhed, namely, the im-
provement of the army, and this was already corro-
borated in the matter of defertion, for of 1805 men
railed in 1800, upwards of 180 deferted ; of 1.105, in
1805, no lets than 175 had deferted ; whereas out of
2155 railed by this meafure, only tcs had defected ;
and by the returns of lalt week, 255 men were re
cruited by it. If die Honourable Gentlemen means
to move a repeal, he was fatisfied that by the time
they could do that, the advantages of the meafure
would be (till more apparent.
Sir JOHN DOYLE Paid, that he intended to have
made fome obfervations on the fubjeft under confi•
deration, but as the night was far advanced, he
would take another opportunity of replying to the
attack which had been made by the Noble Lord on
the prefent Adminikation.
Repeated explanations afterwards occurred be
tween Lord CASTLEREAGH, Lord HOWICK,
Mr. WINDHAM, and the SECRETARY of
WAR, on the neceffity of farther accounts, to affill
in forming a companion between the prefent and
the former fyllem of recruiting.
Mr. WINDHAM and Lord HOWICK Rated,
that Government was anxious to afford the fulleß
information on the firbjed, and that therefore it was
wifhed to lay the returns of the Infpettor General, as
( well as thole of the Adjutant General, before the
Houle.

Mr. JOHNSTONE laid, that the Honourable
Gentlenian who moved the climates had intimated
that he•( Mr. Johnflone) had pledged hinafelf to make
good a charge cf protution againti Minillers with
refpea to the army. He had, however, only pledged
himfelf to a arkk examination cf the accounts, in
order to fee whether the claim to economy, let up
by Minifters, was well founded. He now reminded
his Majeßy's Minifiets, that it would not be fufficient
for them to late that they only followed the fyflem
of their predeceffors : for he had nut forgotten,
though perhaps they had, that one of their principal
charges againa thofe predeceffors was profufion of
expenditure.
The SECRETARY at WAR Paid, he was very
much mittaken if the Hon. Gentleman had not entered
into fume node: flood pledge to prove a charge of
profution. The prefent Adminifiration certainly had
not followed the example of their pteieceffors ; and,
he bclieved, he had already fliewn to the Houle, that
iince they came into office they bad eflablifhld a lb ia
roem of economy in the military department.
Mr. ROSE role, not to trouble the Houle with
any obfervatic.ns at that late hour, but to (late, that
as thu Right Honourable Secretary had pretended
that the prefent &Unifiers were more diflinguifhed for
their economy than their predeceffors,Jte thould
call the attention of the Houfe to a comparifon on
that point to morn, w.
Sir JOHN DOYLE fuggefled, that the returns of
the men called at the head quarters of each regiment
► thould be produced, in order to enable the Houfe to
compare the prefent fylem of recruiting with :hat
which it had fuperfeded. He alit obfervid that if
any difficulty remained in afeertaining the number of
men entitled, that difficulty could be eatily removed
by obtaining the pay Lab of the different regiments
from the War Offic.:.
Mr. WINDHAM ohferved, that the means painted
out by the Honourable General were very proper,
and that it was the with cf his Majetly's Minitters to
render the information laid before the Houfe as full
and as fatisfaaory as poffible.
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought that the returns
cf the Adjutant General ought to be complete, both
as to the men entitled at the head quarters, and the
out-quarters of regiments.
Sir JOHN DOYLE let the Noble Lord right on
this point. The returns fent to the Adjutant General
only expreffe,l the number of men who had joined
at heact.quarters on a given day, but there was no
column for the men enliflcd either at thehead-quarters
or out quarters.
The Refolutions were then agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER
tofe to move climates for two departments ut the
Public Service, which formerly ufed to be included
in the Army Extraordinaries :—theft were the Corn.
ruitfariot and the Barrack Ettimates. The expence
of the former was neither increafed nor diminithed
fince lati year, but it included one charge which
would loon ceafe, namely, 57,0001. for the Royal
Military Canal. With regard to the barrack depart.
menr, the expence had tali year been reduced from
1,1 oc,cool. to 5 50:0001.,and in the prefent year there
was ftill a farther reduaion of about 50,0001. The
climate however included. a new charge, which
amounted alto to 57,0001. an expence, however,
urich perhaps might not be all incurred, for it was
determined not to undertake any new works, nnlafs
they were found to be abfolutely necclfary.. Of the

noccil. charged is the barrack eflimater, 47,3001.'
was for the works at Hiifea. He concluded by
mowing refolutirth for the following fumy :—For the,
Commiff.trioi Department, 84.1,5261.—For the air-
rack, 5c6,2371.
There Refolutions were agreed to nem. can. after
which the Houle was refumed.
The returns prefented to the Hnufe by the SE-
CRETARY of WAR and Mr. CALCRAFT were
ordered to be printed.--Adjourned.at one o'clock.