Star.
London, England, 1824-02-17 00:00:00

oiten; but itlarat ifillvelt the Usit Aleiperateofort
the smugglers in that put to defend their unlawful oc
cupation against the erteeeathinentt of the preventive
orrice. It was very true that Captain M'Culloch had
bis whole heart in the success, of the sytteen, of which
be was the contriver, and that his duties were of a very
weighty kind, his command reaching in extent from
Chichester, westward, to the Isle of Sheppey, eastward.
°fete additional force now asked for, 630 seamen were
to be
&elated under the superintendence and direction of
that o tr. The narrownessof the Channel in this di-
vision made the running of spirits more easy than in
other Oates. But he could safely say, that the greater
pan of the smuggling now carried on took place with-
out the limits of the coast blockade. He admitted that
the high duties en spirits, rendered necessary by the
large amount of tales which must of necessity be raised,
offered a great inducement for smuggling, and therefore
the preventive service naturally operated less effectively
on those patts of the coast which offered most facilities
fur the introduction of spirits. • .
Colette' DAVIES doubted the last proposition of the
gallant Officer, that the amount of taxes cony be ottg-
mented by such enormous duties on foreign slairits, and
if the proper mode of augmentation would not be con-
siderably to reduce the duties, 'Which would also enable
them to get rid of that thost expensive system of coast
blockide. By returns for which he had moved in the
last-Session, it appeared that the expense was no less
than.Boo,oool. in the collection of that branch of the
Revenue only. It washis intention, before long, to shew
how the .Revenue might be benefitted and the esta-
blishment :educed by the adoption of a mote reasons e
policy. It was in vain to look for the exti iction "bf
smuggling to the preventive service. Tho e who vio-
lated the laws 14 the introduction of contraband goods
had no immoral intentions—iconsequently-there was no
ditect dread of ignominy in the punishments which they
had to fear. There was nothing in the laws so prolific
of crime (the laws concerning poachers al A ays excepted),
as the laws which went to the prevention of smuggling.
As to the interests of the Revenue, he pledged_ himself
on a future day to prove that they were materially and
constantly injured by the continuance of the present
very high duties.
Mr. HUME was not satisfied with the view of any
addition to the navy, nor did he like the mode in which
the accounts are laid before the House. It was impos-
sible to choose any method in which mischief wortld be
more likely to arise, than the combining of the pietten-
tire service with the regular means•of defence for the
country. The House was kept from knowing the limits
of either branch•of the service; and if it were not so,
it was next to impossible to asceftain the expense of
collecting the revenue, and, consequently, they were
without the power of deliberating upon the propriety of
keeping up particular kinds of duties; they were pro-
ceeding altogether upon an erroneous principle. For-
merly the naval estimates were kept entirely distinct
' front the charges for collecting the revenue. the naval
officers on the different stations were at hand, and fre-
quently assisted iu the caption of smugglers. It was
ro advantage to the chatactei of English seamen to be
identified with the collectors of the leventie—it would
rather lower, than improve them. They would be
anxious, for the sake of the additional pay and the milder
kind of discipline, to get into that line of the service.
He wished that the estimates hod continued to set out,
as had been done up to last year, what force and ex-
penses were wanted for the defence arid protection of
the country, and what for the prevention of smuggling.
He had moved for returns which would be of great use
in elucidating the preventive system,os they would thew
how far the reduction of duties in Scotland and Ireland
had tended to the dec t ease of smuggling on those coasts.
Bat what necessity could there be for 29,000 men this
year ? He remembered very well that alslobletord,
now no more, had held out hopes, in 1817 and 1818,
that they were to have the Nice), reduced to the limits
of its establishment in 1792, at which tithe andbehire it
did not exceed 16,000 or 17,000. That Nobleman jus-
tified the continuance of the then establishthent by the
state of the wbrld, which was net settled dovrn into that
permanent and unquestionable tranquillity which they
had good reason to expect. • Setae then all the tneasutes
which he and his coadjutors had in hand were colt-
pleted. Netter teat the state of the world More entirely
settled and at rest: The war was at aft end in Spain.
The An:etican President had set at test all questions
respecting the independence of the South American Co-
ionieo Thanks to him, and not to us: his iilawly beim-
viour had done that which the dastardly fear of speaking
out to the Potentates of Europe had hindered us from
doing. This might be eatery good ground of complaint
between Spin and the United States, but there was no-
thin in it to require an increase of the naval force, we
having resolved at all hazards not to go to war. He ad-
mitted, with Ministers, that the proper interests of the
country should induce them to cultivate peace.—
Then, if they had any reasons to apprehend war (though
he doubted the general value' of the information which
they received), let them speak out and tell the country
exactly what was to be expected. There ought to be
some good reason assigned for the pi esent augmentation.,
The navy of England, both in ships and men, exceeded
the navies of all the other Powers. %That was wanted
with more? They ought not to be voted, unless iti
could be shewn that there was imminent danger. To
render the miry efficient, however,
_much more was ne-j
cessary besides men. There were defects in the whole'
of the arrangements of the naval service, which were
inimical to its strength and welfare. Ho* citertte it, then,
in a time of profound peace, the Captains of the few,
sops which were commissioned, found a arificulty in
making up the complements of their event? be-;
Leled that the reason would be found in the late
regulations rhich had crept into the rules of the ser-
vice. The class- of Officeis now employed was not,
!hied up from the old, +rained, and experienced Offi-i
tos. The late promotions seemed to hate been taken•
upon a better principle. But'would the Ylouse
;he navy to go on as it was tit present conducted?
i 0 come to the radical defect : formerly it was the pride
PI the service that the son of any miii,'hirieeeferltewhis;
condition or rank, Might; by entering into 'the niary,i
"izoi to himself a sure way to the highest honours ofl
the profession ; and this facility of advlincement in the
'e'vjee used to be vauntingly contettited with the
naval services of France or Spain, in 'Wlii,:h no one
could hope for a command, except he were a Cadet of
some branch of the Royal Family, or was at least dis-
tinguished by his armorial quarterings. To this dif-
ference wits attributed, and with 'great truth., too, the
Peat superiority of the English over any other navy.
fileheld in his hand au Order in Council, dated 19th
i
anuary,
1803, which prohibited all persons holding
i.arrants,
including Masters, from paSSing examination
a% persons eligible tor promotion in the direcaline of the
-"ice. The only exception to this Order -Was the'

schoolmaster; whts.was sum- te• know lees of nautical
affairs than any other officer, and was therefore less fit
for that promotion which was secured to him knd ditied
to others whose experience and qualifications were un-
questionable. The House must recollect the admission

made by Lord liosire, that he owed his victory to the
'skill of the Master of his ship more than to his own.-.-
Why should so valuable a class of officers be excluded
from promotion? Whrshouldthere-be any more bar to
it than to the promotion of serjeants in the army, many
of whom bad advanced them-selves by their merit to
great honours and distinction? Let this be done away,
and then naval people of all ranks would readily flock to
the standard whenever the service of. the country re-
quired it. Whatever number of men were needed, let
the:. be perfectly satisfied, and theii the navy would
always be efficient.. He considered the system of im-
pressment as an intolerable grievance, and. only equalled
by the terrible system of discidline which gave unfledged
boys the power of flogging veterans without the inter-
vention of a Court Martial, the natural and certain
meani of protecting the service front abuse. Upon the
whole he could see no_ reason for augmenting the naval
force ; .and unless he heard sortie better reason than had
been advanced, he 'would persist in dividing the House
upon an Amendment which he would now submit—
that instead of 29,000 men, the number 2:;,000, should
be substituted in.the vote.
Sir G. CLERK said, that as to the period of 18174
to which allusion had been made by the Hon. Gentle-
man, there was no time in which the Hon. Gentlemen
opposite had been more united in their objections against
Ministers for reducing the.navy to what-they considered
too low and inefficient a. sian.lar d. The Hon. Member
had inserted that no reason was given for the increase of
thenaval force, except the coast blockade. He must
have been unfortunate in trying to make himself under-
stood, or the Hon. Member would have known what he
meant by the reference which he had made to the un-
settled state of the Spani-h American and the British
West India Colonies, and the inconveniences to which
the disturbed relations between Spain and her colonies
had given rise in the western seas. It was impos;ible
for so formidable a Power as Great Britain to allow the
quarrels arising between infei for belligerents to inter-
rupt her merchandise in the other hemisphere; and as
large a force as the whole of the addition now asked;
would be less than was
_required to restrain the petty
piracies within the-West India seas. The difficulty of
getting men for the ships, he was happy to inform the
lion. Member, was only imaginary; no ship had suf.
fere,j any considerable delay on that account. As to the
impressment, which bound men to the service for life,
the Hon. Member must be ignorant of the regulation
which limited the period of service in time of peace to
three years. When the exigencies of state required it,
men must be compelled to serve in the. navy even by
force. In referring to the Orders in Council, the Hon.-
Member had neglected to quote a very important et.
ception, which opened the line of promotion to Masters
who should distinguish themselves. The fact was, that,
no class of naval Officers was so valuable as the Masters,
and therefore all that could be dime in the fair regula-
tions of the servile, was done to retain them in their si-
tuations, but this was not without duly warning them,
drat is accepting the Master's warrant, they excluded
themselves from the direct line of promotion. The rules
of the Invite gave as much facility to a foremast-man
td advance himself as ever. As to unfledged boys
enjoying too much power the service, the present' re-
gulations did away all groundi for any such complaint.
No Midshipman could pass for Lieutenant, unless he
Were 19 years of age ; and no Officer could obtain a
Captain's comminion, unless he had served two years as
Lieutenant. This was all that he thought it necessary to
say at present. If the Hon Member chose to make the
other matters of his speech the subject of a specific mo-
tion, of course he was at liberty 'so to do; but after the
triumphant answer which had been given to him in ere
course of last Session by his gallant friend behind him
(Sir G. Cockburn), it was not very likely that he would
return to the attack—(Cheers film the Ministerial side.)i
Mr. R. BkRNAL said, that if those cheers were- to
signalize the triumph of the gallant Officer -over his
Hots. Friend (Mr. Htime), that opinion was allowable
for those who thought with the gallant Officer; but if
they went beyond that, and presumed that the House or
the service were satisfied, he could assure them, from
the little eiperience he had had, that no speech could
be more unsatisfactory to those who, were chiefly inte-
tested ; the Officers of the Navy. He was aware that the
present regulations-prevented raw boys from the indis-
creettaercise of power as commanders in a greater de-
gree than before, and he believed that the condition was
a- thousand times better than ever it had been; but still
there was much to correct, especiallk in regard'. to the
principle upon which appointments were at present ob-
tained. He could not, however, altogether agree with
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) that there was no 'cause of
dead, and no reason for any alteration in our' naval
equipments, arising from the unsettled circumstances of
the world. On the 'contrary, it appeared to him, that
the political horizon all round the globe was full of
signs and indications of approaching danger. He was
therefore-willing to leave the naval preparations of the
country to the discretion of Ministers, as he had all his
life through approached that subject with the greatest
delicacy and caution.
Sir GEORGE COCKBURN would not appeal to
either of the Hon. Members to know whether the speech
which he had the honour of making to the House in the
course of last Session was satisfa6tory or not to the
Officers
in the service. There were several able-and ex-
perienced Officers in the House; if they were prepared
Its say that there etas anything in the remarks which he
n made which was 'disagreeable to 'the service gene-
rally, let them get up and assert it manfully. Be him-
self-was intimate with some Officers of the service, and
probably ',had -artich tirperience to guide him, as to
'the general'opinion of what he then said, as either of
the Hon. Members. What he had then advanced, he
now repeated, that while the road of promotion was
kept open to merit ,and enterprise, however obscure the
station and origin of the parties, the navy would feel
no jealousy whatever at'seeing persons of rank 'and con-
dition promoted among them ; they were of use wher-
ever-they were placed ; they were of use to the ,Navy ;
they were of great use in that tiouse—(Loud .cheers'
roin:the Opposition benches.) The ships were as capable
and the Officers, he would contend, were more capable,
than at ail former period. There was a mischievous-
practice of those good old -times to which the Hon.
Member alluded, which now existed do longer, of boys
in their mothers' drawing-rooms being put on a ship's
books, and thus serving their time without ever being
at sea; and it was in the memory of many persons,
that in the American war, we had Post-captains of 17
years of age; but now 'no *man could be made post till
he was of proper•Oge. Then it was in power of an

Admiral to make his son or his nephew a Lieutenant at
16 or lryears of age; but now there *eta pointed and
difficult examination 40 go through, and if the candi-
date was not sufficiently skilled in navigation to sail the
skip without the assistance of the Master, he could not
be made a Lieutenant. With regard to the Mastei s, of
the impediments to whose promotion the Hon. Member
complained, it was to be observed, that no other Officer
could become so at once ; a Lieutenant could not be
made, nor Pursers or Surgeons attain their respective
make, with Out going through the previous steps in the
loyal Navy ; but a Master, if he had sailed in a mer-
chant ship and was competent, might be tnade a Master
at once ; and on that account it was, thought but jest
that to that rank he should be rdstricted, unless he dis-
tinguished himself. With respect to discipline, the
Hon. Member should pot mislead the House by assert-
ing that boys might flog the men ; that power was in
the hands of the Captain only; and as it was a power
necessary, the House would see that it could not be
lodged in more proper hands.
Sir F. OMMANNEY defended the vote proposed
and expressed his intention of voting for it.
Captain MABERLY said, that when we were assured
by his Majesty's speech that our foreign 'Anions were
never in a more pacific state, and when it was apparent
that the late Spanish colonies of South America could
not be reconotieted by the mother country without
foreign assistance, he could not see with what face any
Honourable Gentlemen could justify the augmentation
propo-ed on that ground.
An Honourable ME USER under the gallery declared,
'that South America was the place which peculiarly re-
iiuired an additional farce.
Mr. FIUME said, he had heard nothing to justify the
augmentation, if a proper distribution of the existing
fbrce wet
,e made. The gallant Officer (Sir George
Cockburn) had argued as if it were the examination of
Officers which impeded the promotion. Certainly, if
the Officer were not competent, he ought not to be pro-
moted, but the Order in Council did not hold that lan-
guage !it said, that no Master should be eligible to be
examined for promotion. The speech which the gallant
Officer delivered last year, was certainly calculated to
create dissatisfaction in the breast of every Officer in the
navy; and from every communication which he (Mr.'
Hornell:tad had with Officers, it appeared to have pro-
duced that effect, and surely nothing elk could have,
been expected from the gallant Officer's declaration that
the soils of Noblemen and Gentlemen were, as of course,l
to be promoted after serving their Jime—(No, no, from'
the Ministerial benches.) That, at least, was his un-
derstanding of the gallant Officer's speech. If he (Sir
George Cockburn) had then said nothing but what he
had now said, he (Mr. Hume) would not have found
fault with it. With-regard to the proposed augmenta-
tion, he took the speech of his Majesty to be true, and
that this country never had abetter prospect of the con-
tinuance of peace : it was impossible, therefore, for
him (Mr. Hume) to see any reason for an increase of
our naval force.

Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said, there never was a
more bold misrepresentation than that which the Ho-
nourable Member for Aberdeen had made of his (Sir
George Cockburn's) speech of last session.; It was im-
possible for any one to suppose that he could have said
that the son of every Nobleman sad man of fortune
should be made directly he had served his time ; he was
in the recollection of the House, and on that he would
rest, for he should be ashamed if it were necessary to
discuss the point. All his argument was, that provided
proper atteritiun was paid to merit and services, the
Navy did not feel jealous that a proportion of Noblemen
should belong to their profession.

Mr. Sect etary CANNING rose.—l well remember the
debate of last Session, and the opinions which my Ho-
nourable friend (Sir George Cockburn) expressed in the
course of it. Of the opinions lie then expressed, there
has been in the course of this evening much misiepiesen-
tion. My Honourable Friend did not say that in this
fine ccuertry, merit and talent should give way to birth
and fortune, and that the !atter should have as is were
an eXiclusire preference. The opinions which ht ex-
pressed, and in which I concurred and followed-him,
amounted to nothing like such a proposition. The senti-
ments that I professed thetr,l profess and maintain now. I
am clearly of opiniot that it is the mixture of service and
merit with rank and fortune that maintains the respect-
ability dr the British Navy. Ltt not birth or rank have
an undue preference over stin and talent, but let it be
attended to as far as is consistent with the reward due
to snerit,--.(Hear, hear.) This is a principle and re-
gelation to which the Navy themselees will look with-
out personal grudging or individual jealousy. It would
not merely be my intention to undervalue that indivi-
dual reputation which depended on self-created merit,
but my object would be to enhance it by uniting it with
those hereditary claims of sank and birth, the combined
association of which voriStitotes the greatness of the
British name. It should be remerribered, that persons
who are born to affluence, who may live at home in
luxury and ease, will not leave their Come,' unless. from
the prospect of great reward ; they will not undergo
hardship with the same readiness as those who are
obliged •by necessity to do so: it is therefore desirable
that every encourageniergt,consistent with the due appre-
ciation of skill and service, should be held oot to them.
Besides, one of the greatest rewards to those v. ho dis-
tinguished themselves in their country's service, was, to
'raise them to the rank and level of those •who were dis-
tinguished by rank and ennobled by -birth. It was, in
[truth, the introduction of men of rank into the naval
service, that 'made the British Navy ndt • only the pro-
fession oflmen of skill and talent, but also the 'proles-
si6n of gentlemen— ( Henn hear.) It is true that this
country was- never'before so :iterated, in which it Might
look with greater. confidence to the continuance of a
long peace.: but although peace was to be expected,we
were not to beaithout the apprehension of great agita-
cibn. In any agitation that might arise, it would be
incumbent on this country to Maintain, not only its in-
dependence, 'but its nautical superiority over the other
'nations of Borope---(Fienr, hear.) There were three
districts towards which it was now incumbent on this
country to direct its particular attention. The Medi-
terranean, the West Indies, n d South America—(•Hear.)
In any interference which this country may be called
upon toadopt, in 'reference to either of these important
clistticts,"it was neoessary• not only to display a strong
hand, but also to evince great promptitude and great
vigour-,—(liertr.) Under such circumstances, it was the
duty Of this Country, to be not only equal, but superior
to any foreign tritionin the world. It would be n:rces-
,sary that such a naval force should be kept-up, as that
by their neighbourhood, a line of communication
should be preserved, and the ships might be brought, if
litecessary,into ready cb-operation. When such impor-
!cant objects were to be attained, and when the great in-
terest this country posbused in'epholdiug its prowess at j

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