Star.
London, England, 1825-02-15 00:00:00

itarish politics, each propagating,. a sy.telit tact only
different from, but opposod to that of the other; the
first ascribing all the evils of Roland to the Priessi,' to.
Committees and Conventions, and to all those spin*
toms of discontent and signs of misgovernment, which
to those superficial politicians appeared the essence of
the evil. The other party—a patty whose principles
and exertions will be respected by posterity, however I
unsuccessful they may have been at the time of their
original propagation—that patty declared that the
miseries of Ireland spring from the rooted hatted and
dissensions of two parties opposed to each other in reli-
gion and politics, and tearing their common country to
pieces between them—(Hear, hear! from the Opposition
Benches). As a remedy lot this lamentable condition
the first party proposed Penal Statutes, military force,
Insurrection Acts, Whiteboy Acts, and Convention Bills
—(.fear, hear). The other party were Of opinion that
the best remedy was a reconciliation between the con-
flicting classes, and that the surest means of effecting
that mutual reconciliation was the placing both on the
basis of equal rights in the land of their th—
that is, by granting Emancipation to the Catholics
—(Hear, hear, hear). For this great purpose the
Union was carried into effect—( Cheers from the Oppo-
silks:). This Mr. Pitt acknowledged to be the ob-
ject and end of the measure, both before it and after.=
This was Lord Grenville's opinion, who said in the de.
bate, in the year 1813, now we can carry into effect
the purposes of the Union." The advocates of the first
system consisted, for a considerable time, of the great
majority of the English people, and all the friends (pre-
judiced but sincere) to the Protestant Establishment in
Church and State. But that prejudice has died away
with the persons of those who felt it; and at this mo-
ment all the rising talent and public worth of the coun-
try have at t ayed themselves, with one splendid excep-
tion, on the wise and generous side of the question.—
The House of Commons has passed a Bill in favour of
it. In the very same year, Lord Wellesley's motion in
the Lords, to take the Catholic claims into considera-
tion, was lost but by a majority one ; and even that por-
tion of the public which is most easily excited into
vulgar prejudices, tumultuous clamours, and to acts of
violent opposition, even that inflammable portion can-
not be roused to the old cry of " No Popery!" and that
mob which on this very question almost ruined one
Cabinet, cannot now be induced to give its support to
another. Nn; there is no feeling of this kind in the
country. I assert that there is not ; and even if
there were, it should be the last truth 1 should utter
in this House; for imagine the consequences of the
people of England telling to the people of Ireland—
We, the British Nation, anottnting to *twelve millions
of men, are enemies to you and to your claims. Nothing
could be more dangerous to the peace of both countries.
Much indeed should I be surprised, if I were a Roman
Catholic, at the present state of that important ques
tion. In the twenty-fifth year of the Union, under a
Monarch of well-known kindness to his Itish subjects--•
under a Miniiter the most able and eloquent of its able
friends—under a native Lord Lieutenant, as distin-
guished for his enlightened views of general policy as
for his most liberal advocacy of this measure in parti-
cular—and under an Attorney-General for Ireland who
could not suffer by a comparison with the proudest of
his predecessors—that in this state of circumstances the
friends of the Catholic cause should adopt the petty
sche's.e', and paltry expedients, and wretched fooleries
which they themselves resisted so long, so ably, and so
successfully—and that the Parliament of the empire
should degrade its dignity into a squabble with Catholic
Committees and Catholic Associations—a contest in
which there can be no'glory from a victory, yet where
a defeat may bring danger, is exttaordinary. In my
fnlluwing observations I shall adhc•e to the divisions
laid down by my Right Honourable Friend the Attor-
ney-General for Ireland, w ho, amid all his logical clear-
ness of statement and methodical arrangement of argu-
ment, is by n' means deficient in a knowledge of that
class of argument termed sophism. His first position
is the necessity of the case ; and here he quotes salus
populi sup7ema lex. 11, Sir, this necessity can be pleaded,
although it has been resotted to by tyrants, and was
first used, as we read by that arch tyrant—
Who, with necessity, the tyrant's plea,
Covered his devilish deeds"—

if, I say, this imperative law can be admitted, then, I
say, it would be not the supreme, but the rola lex, este-
hisshing an irresistible stern necessity; silencing all op-
position, and superseding all remonstrance. But what
are the ingredients of danger which render this Bill
necessary? Thi ee—misaiel intendea to be done, mis-
chief done, and dangerous language. Now, I call on
te Right Honourable Gentleman who brings in this
Bill, to state what, if any, are the bad intentions which
he apprehends from the Catholics ? He has acquitted
the general Catholic body of the imputation of bad in-
tentions, and he has not charged the Catholic Associa-
tion with them. Nay, even the great leader, the object
of the machinery of this Bill, who has been made much
giearer by Parliament itself, even he (Mr. O'Connell)
has been acknowledged by the Right Honourable and
Learned Gentleman to possess all those domestic qua=
lities and professional advantages which unfit a man
for dangeious designs, and bind him with more than
the strength of rational attachment to the peace of his
country and the welfare of his kindred.. These are
pledges in favour of Mr. O'Connell of the absence of
any intended mischief on his part. Now for the mis-
chief actually done—the Right Hon. Secretary for Ire-
land has adduced but two facts bearing on this point
out of the alleged body of evidence supplied to him from
all parts of Ireland ; and in both cases those were acquit-
tills. In one, the Judge himself thanked the Counsel for
the Association, that is, the Association itself, for the pro-
priety with which the prosecution was conducted.—
The Secretary of State for the Home Department had
said, that the Catholic Association would put an end
to the administration of justice in Ireland by depriving
the country ofJurors, on the principle which guided the
Court of King's Bench in England, in the case of the
King v. Dolby. The Right Hon. Gentleman, however,
forgot, that in that case the evil would cure itself; as,
if there were no Catholic Jurors to be found, as a matter
,of course, the Association could bring no prosecutions,
and there could be no necessity for that Bill—(Hear).
Sir James here quoted at somelength from the Procla-
mation of the Association to the Peasantry of Ireland,
and contended that those Hon. Gentlemen must have
a vast portion of ingenuity in perverting language so
grossly as to view it in any other light than as a most
impressive invocation to peace.. He now came to the
word " hate," which had been made such use of by some
of those eloquent masters of debate who, as Dryden said,
illustrated their opinions by acting in opposition to them.
Dr. Johnson had said, that some person was a good
hater—he hated a Whig, and hated a Scotchman—(A
laugh). If the Doctor, however, could now rise from the

dead, be Sr Jame!) had link doubt 'bit that lidi tiq
obviate the double effect against himself, although id
that instance he would defend the eiression, which
only meant to say, " I conjure you, by the very hatred
which incite you to revenge and insurrection, to be
peaceful r Such was the meaning of the ekpreslion.
and no honest person could justly find fault with
To every man who understood the -English language;
that passage could be only taken to advise, and advised
the people to avoid offending against the Law. He next
came to a -passage in the speech of the Honourable'
Member who spoke last, and who said the measure •

wet
solely directed to and solely produced by the Catholie
Association. Nd Orange Lodge was to be interfered
with or visited by those thunders with which the Right
Hon. Gentleman amused the House a few nights be
fore—no, the measure was solely directed against the'
Catholics. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Broseti%
low) told the House plainly that the Orangemen weri
sot humbugged by the declaration of the Right
Honourable Gentleman, that the Bill was intended a
pat down all illegal Associations—no, they are not'
alarmed by the threat of impartiality of applict-
tion; they understood clearly that all the thundeii
of the law are to be directed against the Catholics.—
But did the House believe that equality of operatiod
was possible in both cases? The Hen. MeMler for
Armagh said the real truth, that the measure could act
upon or affect the Catholics, but could not operate upon
the Orange Societies; and indeed, from the secret nature
of their constitution, it was impossible it could mid*
them.--(The Honourable Gentleman here at much
length contended, that an the Orangemen constituted
the Grand Juries, presided at Quarter Sessions, and
formed exclusively the Corporations of the Kingdom,
they could not be reached by the proposed law, while
the Catholic Association were for the same reasons placed
completely withio its grasp; and that, in every point
of view, it was most unequal in its operations.)—
He next came to the first head of the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman's argument, where he said that the proposed law
would form no encroachment upon the popular privi-
leges; a most hardy assertion, for would it be asserted,
that to limit the amouet of the legal rights of the peo-
ple was no encroachment upon popular privileges?
That it did constitute an encroachment was as-positive
and distinct a proposition, as that the whole was squat
to iti pacts. The law was that which the people en-•
joyed, and any encroachment on their right must be
deemed an encroachment. But that which he appre-
hended most from the measure was its injurious bear.
ing uponthe Catholic Question. He was at a lo:s how
to discuss that point, which he therefore left .to thic
friends of Emancipation. It was said that the influence
of the Catholic Association was dangerous to the pub-
lic good. Undoubtedly we ought to be jealous of the in.
of any betty which interfered with the adminis-
tration of justice. But was interference confined to the
Catholics ? He meant no reflection on the Protestant
population of Ireland, but to expect that justice should
be impartially administered to the Catholics of It eland,
would be to profess belief in a miracle, greet any of
those of Prince Huhenlohe himself. Tile remains of
the Popery laws of Ireland were to the Catholics as the
prison dress of enlarged felons—their chains were re-
moved, but the brands and badges remained. Such was
exactly the situation of the Catholic people of Ireland.
Insult was added.to punishment. These laws went to
exclude them from honours among men for doing that
which they conceived was in obed.ence to the mandate
of their Goo—(Kear, hear)—and was therefore the
most grinding tyranny that could be conceived.
What would be the consequences of the r roposed area•
sure, he shuddered to contemplate. The night helm,
Franklin left England, he shed tears at contemplating
evils such as he (Sir James Mackintosh) could mit but
apprehend from a measure similar to that which Frank-
lin deplored. The threat of separation, if conveyed of
intended by the Catholics, was most absurd—nothing
could be more injurious to their interests, sn destruc-
tive to their hopes. Separation from England, if praca
ticable, would terminate the happiness and prosperity
of Ireland ; all the advantages which she derived
from the Constitution and Institutions of England
would be for ever lost to her. If England and Ireland
were ever separated, both would be rendered miser*.
ble ; but the situation of Ireland would be the worse, be-
cause she is the weaker. He called the attention of the
House to the injustice of refusing the claims of the
Catholics on account of any proceedings of the Associa•
don. How in the name of Goa could a Government
introduce a measure to guard against a doubtful
danger, and refuse attending to that which was an
hundred-fold more momentous and impending! He
felt bound to express his conviction, that if the measure
be carried, many of those who then heard him would
have to bitterly lament it—(Hear, hear). In the views
of some men the pacification of Ireland was a secondary
question—a secondary object; but of the Cabinet
friends of Catholic Emancipation he would ask, hew
could they believe that the difference on that point
would not cause hostility ? They spurned the assist-
ance of those who sympathised with them on that head,
and clung to those who were opposed to it ; end he be-
lieved in his heart that some of them, would live to re-
gret it. The Members of the Cabinet who resisted
Catholic Emancipation—the Right Honourable the
Secretary for the Home Department, for example,
might wisely and consistently retain his seat; all that he
could wish for was already in hit hands ; but to ex-
pect a Government pledged unanimously against it
could not enter into the dreams even of the most fanci-
ful. For his part, he thought it surprising that in in-
dulging in any such expectation, they did not feel
themselves to be treading dangerous ground, or, as the
phrase is, in the enemy's waters. I was surprteed the
other night, continued the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman to observe the cheers which attended the speeches of
the Secretary of State and the Attorney-General of Ireand. I
wonder that those cheers did not alarm the Learned Attorney-
General, considering the quarter from
They came from the camp of the enefw
the measure which be had always adl
Friend put himself before the House of
as before a Jury. With all the respect :
Hon. Friend, I cannot but think that h
in judgment; bor can I call it less than _
joined any Administration without providing
the wrongs under which his country groaned,
to which has made so great s portion -
rater (Hear, bear.) He hind
as to a Jury, but I must c
bear). I must challenge all those who .
Question ; not for any want of honour, .
difficult to be conceived, when their poiky
man Catholics is taken into consideration.
taken out, and his case was to be decided
appeal to his own reason and candour, •
hope of success from the decision of
would remain to tie decided'?"—'the
sat down, evidently exhausted, amid
The CHAPCILLOII of the lisenneuas
cane inonwin. TheChanccUor of the

bir. *me

'at mows
tire Catholic
violent* and
It. The Ho
lit -down, ha
riliciples, tQ
that be failed
There he du
lionset_and i
wart oT the (
lie Comoro:13

raccording
t must nice's'
esi ing us rep
4t lie Constitutic
k +e Catholic
%ected, nor b
V 6 ling as the,
Wises of tin
Vile mischief c
p.tranger were
Isis property,
Isis life, he VII
let in by the d
at once to eje
sociation sedu

legitimate obj
he should col
them. Now, 1
trot care for t 1
to, and that
" represent th
irsho pay their
rolled r It wi
was not at tea
tie country?
was very Litt
question did
caped the atte
Catholic Ren
a minor asseci
Those meetin
Chapels and c
not under the
(fired a great
intendence of
went out pub)
and came bac
stream of.relii
tiool bf politic,
mind, he shou
a popular asse
bates of the C,
darker periods
some of the C
tiously to be
O'Connell, any
governed that
sum of the A
rt.
Ministr
It was stated i
ciation, that al
There was emi
temperate to.c
ciation next ye
violent than th
ings of its men
ciplei of the C.
I might, their m
aim was to v
they consideres
Secretary for I
,had 'been a too
alwith murder, s
runlawful oaths
An klnnnurabl
cases proved n 1
acquitted? Wh
but if truth heel
been a convict
said ? It had
tration of justir
check upon it.
administration.
1811, and fron
to the prosecut
known a perm
the House to at
advocate of the
Catholic Aim
statement of tt
plained. if th
Edsgland, the]
speeches. Ths
attend to it. '1
but in the wicl
The Member fi
Had he name)
tranquillity thr,
admitting that
too dear for it
the hands of th
the Marquis of
4;0114 oa su
peace with deal
It was impossil
best feelings of
Lodges, of whir
of Orangeman
tholics. It was a
He might fair):
the Catholics o
the Orange
bat cherish as
there were son
but they had
Lord Killeen
his ancient hou
ether Catholic
forward

in whence they proceeded. forward to re
soy, from the opponent* d his opinion, hip
advocated. My Bien Hen.
of Commons the other night their object wh
t 1 entenain for my Right the a feelin
he committed a great error tilt the right h
an a desertion in him to have It
Counter..
groaned, ti
,roviding for the remission of
groaned, and the resistance
t ca
on of his own fame and cha-
t mtoansbye
of that
ofjuc"nal""(H.: polite:sewert r
disc
h
lo are enemies of the Catholic • *hold
Pa
but for other reasons not a again ra
ley with regard to the Ro- • „which aught ei
rause. If sock jurors were melitbe Theu (d. i Bibtl
[en would eaded by the rest, I wou
r,. whether he coold have any • tow, but no gri
of those by whom Isis ease •
Honourable Member ties ‘i platy otAnner i
the cheers of the House. the ltd credit
should be
in and Mr. Non* nee at the _ put
&chequer having ging' WNW crow to heap